What do you think about the N.C. school's grades-for-cash exchange?

I like the idea of shutting down public schools altogether. The "public option" in education is no longer working. Shut them all down.

The O-bots want to see better grades so they can justify the ridiculous spending. Selling grades will get the grades up without actually teaching the kids anything. Problem solved! Of course the kids will still be on wellfare, but that's OK because Obama wants to be their sugar-daddy any way. Between Obama and his tsars they would appove of this right away. In the real world, this should be illegal and prosecutable. Whoever came up with this idea should be behind bars!

Just a mom,

Last I heard, minimum wage was $7.55 an hour. That's a lot less than $500 a week.

That being a moot point, a lot of companies are using the recession to enable them to get away with practices people wouldn't put up with before, using worker's fear of losing their jobs.

Of COURSE North Carolina has no morals! They have religion instead, and it tells them that science and learning are bad, and that money is good, because it tells them to vote Republican, and that's what Republicans believe. If you don't believe in intelligence, open-mindedness and knowledge, why would you care about learning? Most of them probably believe the government shouldn't be educating their kids in anything but the Bible anyway. Morals - HA! Religion kills 'em dead.

Everyone in North Carolina is not as pathetic as this principal. I am from here, and I certainly do not believe in allowing schools to pay students for grades. If parents want to offer their own children money for doing well, that's their decision. Principals should not make such a decision. I would not allow my child to accept the money, but I would still expect my child to do well. This principal has not only done a disservice to her students, she has done one to NC residents, too. There are too many people who will make idiotic assumptions such as yours.. that all North Carolinians are as misguided as this principal in Goldsboro. We are not.

No, all of us don't believe as you say. And you know something else? We don't stereotype all people from your state as being as stupid as someone who would make the ignorant comments you wrote. Everyone I've asked about this principal's paying money for grades agrees that she is wrong. She's just as wrong as you and your comments are.

NCresident, President Abraham Lincoln once uttered a very wise comment that I think you could benefit from. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

Please reread the article.

NC, when the residents of my state, on average, do or believe something stupid, I am honest enough to be ashamed on their behalf, and distance myself from their stupidity. Obviously, not everyone in a state thinks the same, even in Dixie - but there is a reason so many of us fear the South, and it is not all baseless prejudice. If you refuse to see the validity of that fact, there is really no talking to you.

NCresident please except my apology, there was no need of using the Lincoln quote. It could be easily construed as name calling and that was not my intention.

I'm sure that after rereading the article you will see the erroneous nature of your posts. Have a nice day.

Maybe it would be kinder to think of this principal as one of those relatives you never mention. It is sad that someone would get publicity for such an asinine matter that only makes everyone look bad. This article only sets up everyone to ridicule and again, the blanket mud slinging such as saying North Carolina is a less than desirable state. I call Foul!

Darrel, There is no need for you to apologize. I said something stupid, and I wrote it when I shouldn't have done so. You are kind to apologize for the Lincoln quote, and I accept your gracious apology. The Lincoln quote is actually one of my favorites, and I'm honest enough to admit that it fit me quite well with one of the hot-heated comments I made earlier. JS, the principal in Goldsboro will never be thought of as one of my relatives; I actually come from a family that knows the value of a good education, one that is certainly not bought by paying money for extra points on tests. I do agree with you that the blanket mud slinging simply makes NC appear as a less than desirable state. I think Jon is correct when he says people should celebrate what brings them closer rather than the differences that push them apart. NC or Liz in NC

How dare Dave in NM make such ignorant comments about North Carolina residents. That in itself is prejudice! Shall we judge all the residents of your state based on your ignorant comments?

FYI Dave, North Carolina elected Barack Obama president of the United States and has some of the best universities in the nation. 82% of the graduates of UNC at Chappel Hill are North Carolina natives. Like it or not, most Americans believe in God too so I wouldn't trash the Bible loving citizens either. We are, after all, "one nation under God, indivisible".

You can have education and religion Dave. Sounds like you don't have much of either.

emp-1467090, Dave has as much right to his opinions as anyone else. If you read all of his comments you will see that he is certainly not uneducated. He has made me angry (I've already apologized for my stupid response to that.), he has made me think, he has made me agree, and he has made me a friend. We do have some great colleges in NC. We have some great teachers. We have many great people. We also have some things and some people that aren't quite so great. I agree with you that we can indeed have both education and religion. Dave does not have to agree with either one of us. It does not make him an uneducated person. In addition, not all of NC citizens elected Obama, and some of those who did are now sorry they did so. I believe in God, myself, but I've known many "Christians" who judge others and commit some of the same sins they criticize others for committing. I do not hold my beliefs over the heads of anyone else. I do not trash them. Yes, we are one nation. Being one nation does not mean we are commanded to share the same ideals and beliefs. To paraphrase another person who commented here, it would be so much better if we learned to celebrate those things that bring us closer rather than those things that push us apart. Jon was certainly right when he said this.

Liz or NC

Without name calling or pointing fingers... Why do we have to start paying anyone for something they should be doing in the first place? What now do we pay girls not to get pregnant, women and men for beating on each other? What happened to satisfaction of a job well done? Everything is not about money and that's the reason we live in a what's in it for me greedy world. They shouldn't be surprised if they ask their children to help someone and they reply " How much are you going to pay me?"

Ralph369 why are you paying the race card. This has nothing to do with race. I guess you think you are a victim of reverse discrimination and political correctness and everything is the fault of liberals and minorities. Enjoy your victim status.This program is wrong plain and simple no matter who uses it.

ArmyVet89 - do you not understand sarcasm?

The officials at this school should be investigated and all the books should be audited. Sound like they are gathering cash to cover up some poor budget decisions.

7.2: That was sarcasm? So he was saying the ACLU won't sue on behalf of minorities? It sounded like the usual poor-white-me persecution complex to me, not sarcasm.

And Ralph: If poor blacks are being disadvantaged by this scheme, are you saying it would be a bad thing if someone DID intervene on their behalf? And if so, why?

Man what an open mind you have. First read the entire article and understand what is being said. They are not buying the final grade. They are required to have a test each week in each subject. They can buy 10 points on one of the nine tests which means there average goes up by 1 to 2 points depending on rounding. They can do this on two different tests over all of there subjects, so lets say they use both of them on one subject, the average changes 2 to 4 points. You make it sound like they are just buying a final grade. READ and UNDERSTAND what is said before you jump with your Blue and Red state bull@!$%#......

Oh, right - your half of a split hair so completely negates everything I said. Oh, that and your calling it BS. I stand just as corrected as I expected to be.

To Mark: *I* read the entire article. Whether or not it changes the final grade or not -- it's STILL WRONG. It sends the message that they can buy their way out of something instead of working. As it is, this thought process is becoming epidemic. If you want proof, go over to Yahoo Answers -- the Homework "Help" section for a start -- to see the number of kids putting in their homework "orders" for someone else to do -- and see nothing wrong with it.

However, I do agree on one point -- this has nothing to do with "blue and red states" (although I manage without profanity). This is a problem for the ENTIRE COUNTRY. It's called CHEATING.

Thanks for your worldly insight Dave. How could we ever make it without religion haters such as yourself who undoubtedly never lived in the South and don't know JS about it. Last time I checked New Mexico wasn't exactly a bastion of higher learning so you'll need a little more credibility with your pap. Also, I suppose you feel your snarky remarks warrant multiple posts even though the content is the same, please spare us.

Chris, I have lived in the South and the South is everything that is wrong in America. This is just one example.

Chris: despite your certitude that you know all you need to know about me, I decline to desist as you wish. I do note that you say nothing whatsoever to contradict my point; you only attempt to insult me and request that I shut up. Not exactly the way to overcome a meritorious argument. But I guess that's the only card folks like you have in the deck.

Your ignorant comments are one reason there is still such division in our country. Thank the God you seem to disregard that another state can lay claim to you. Not everyone in the South is the same. Are all people from the North the same? What about people from the West? Or even, Heaven help them, the people from your great state? I refuse to believe all of them are as stupid as you. Although I don't think schools should pay for grades, maybe someone should have offered to pay you if you would have learned something. It appears that you did not.

NC: Thanks for the help in calling Chris out, but I've got him handled.

Riiiiight. Clearly, people in North Carolina want to be just like Barney Frank. Do you really want to start comparing lists of names based on party affiliation? For starters, let's examine the party demographics where this scheme is taking place.

I like that idea! Community work for extra credit. It should be "class related" if possible too!

Right. Because Goldsboro, N.C. is such a hotbed of liberalism. Believe me, it's the liberals who actually want kids to learn, not just skate by and come out of school knowing nothing but fag-hating, science-denying and Bible-thumping.

Are you one of the fags you are afraid someone is going to hate, Dave?

NC: Does it matter?

My profile answers your question.

Why - are you one of the rednecks who hates fags, no-name?

Dave, I couldn't care less if you or anyone else is gay. If I thought you were decent enough to be my friend, I'd be proud to call you one. Do you even know how the term redneck started? Farmers who worked in the fields bent their necks to chop, hoe, rake, or do many more of the necessary chores to run their farms. Their necks, therefore, became sun burned or tanned as they worked. When those who thought of themselves as better than a working farmer sought to speak derogatorily about one, the term redneck was used. If my neck is red, Dave, it is because I worked on my dad's farm as I was growing up. If it makes you feel big to use the term, feel free to do so. I am proud to be the daughter of the man who was my father. As the term as come to be used now, it usually refers to an uncouth, loud mouth, ignorant, beer-guzzling, can-crushing, dumb person. I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but that doesn't describe me. As for being ashamed of the principal from Goldsboro, I am not she. I am sorry she has brought NC negative recognition for her poor decision to pay her students for test scores. Still, she made that mistake. I had nothing to do with it. Ashamed is the way she, herself, should feel.

Your previous question belies your first sentence in response. If you didn't care, you wouldn't have asked. Congratulations on having lineage. Everyone does. If I thought you were decent enough to be my friend, I'd be proud to call you one, too.

It was a redundant question, Dave. I really don't care, Friend in NM. I'm sincerely sorry if I offended you. If it didn't offend you, I'm still sorry for saying something so stupid. It was a poor attempt to be funny. It wasn't. As for having lineage, of course everyone does. Congratulations on yours, too... even if you were being sarcastic.

You didn't offend me - I just hope you can see how your question, coupled with my (and so many others') impression of the South, might appear to have been an attack of sorts. No, I'm not gay. I'm a married father of two. I just feel like too many Americans have lost the idea that we should stand up and fight for people who aren't like us. You and I both got a little heated, but as I have said elsewhere on this board, I think we only make progress as a country by acknowledging and accepting one another's differences, and by being civil and friendly in spite of them (and, of course, not forcing one another to live in accordance with them). I have never enjoyed being in the South - the tenor of the place is just too far removed from my ideals - but there are gracious, intelligent people there, and I apologize to the extent that I implied otherwise. If you can be friends with me, I will gladly be friends with you. Thank you for rising above our squabbling to write a civil post. I should have done the same, and didn't, for which I am truly sorry.

Dave, I can certainly see that, and once again let me say I am sorry for saying something so stupid. I can promise you that is not typical of me. I spoke as you said.. with a hot head.. instead of with a thinking one. I love the South; of course, I was born here. I also realize that there are places here that don't exactly make even me feel comfortable. I guess all of us have some good and some bad. I have traveled all over the country, and I actually haven't found many places that I really dislike. There are indeed places, however, and, yes, right here in NC, where I have felt people were a bit too narrow-minded for me. Yes, we Americans have lost the idea that we should stand up and fight for people who aren't like us. I think that is truly a shame. I have often told my students that they should be more forgiving of people who are not just like they are. I try to get across how very boring this world would be if we were all alike and thought the same. (They always make me laugh at how they react when I tell them to imagine thousands of me.) We should definitely be civil and friendly in spite of our differences. Thank you for your answer to my apology for speaking so stupidly and heatedly. I would consider it a very good thing to be your friend. I am also married and a mother to two grown children. See? Another reason I should not act so childish and write with my hot head instead of my heart and mind. Thank you for making me realize that, Friend in NM. Liz in NC

I agree with almost everything you’ve said. A parent paying their child for grades though? Not sure about that one. I give my child an allowance. If they don’t make the grade, or if I feel their performance is lacking in some way that may not be reflected in their grades, I will reduce that allowance, but I’m always sure to avoid the idea that they’re being paid to do something they need to do for themselves. Semantics really, but I thought it was important. =]

Welcome to the wonderful world of (once)GOP education policy: No Child Not Left Behind.

Jon, my parents agree fully with you, and I was never paid for a grade. I see it differently. Kids should work for good grades for their own sake, period, but kids are often unaware of (or unconcerned about) the effect their grades will have later in life. I haven't decided whether to pay my kids for grades, or reward them in other ways, but I think it can be an effective way to help them help themselves. After all, they will spend the rest of their lives getting paid to do what they should be doing anyway. You're not wrong, I'm not wrong; it's just two approaches to the same thing.

But parents paying for grades is worlds apart from this reprehensible scam in North Carolina.

Dave: I agree with you completely. I guess the real question is how best to motivate our children. Unfortunately, the answer depends more on the child and circumstance than any policy.

I would venture to say that this is probably one of those times that schools are overstepping their bounds. This is a parent's issue.

I've know quite a lot of parents who will pay for good grades. there are various reasons they do this and I truly find no fault in this practice. When a child wants to earn some cash for recreation and walking around money paying for good grades is a way to earn while you learn. I have also known some who have a scale where grades A-C are earning points, D-F will reduce by double the amount for the better grades.
This school has lost the plot, however. The idea of allowing children to buy points is pretty silly. How good is that grade when you didn't earn it, you paid for it? Is this the new age of Vanity Grades?

Dave, your above comments are so true. I agree with you that parents paying their children for good grades is far different from the fiasco in Goldsboro. I've known parents who gave their children a certain amount for A's and B's on each report card. Their children actually liked studying to earn their reward money. I've also known other children who simply liked getting good grades no matter that they received no pay on report card day. Doing well was a personal challenge to them. I think it comes down to how the parents handle whichever way they choose. I like the point you made that children don't recognize the future benefit of getting good grades. It is so very true that hopefully they'll spend the rest of their lives gettig paid for doing what they should be doing. Very good thoughts, Friend in NM.

History? What are you talking about? Bush wrote the first bailout checks. This is an American political problem! Not a red or blue problem. We make messes and then do our best to clean them up, always forgetting not to make another mess. It's that simple. All parties are completely wrong, but @!$%#ing about it isn't going to help. Nor is credit mongering.

IS THERE A SOLUTION? If so, it shouldn't matter who is in power! "We the People" need to make sure this gets fixed.

To answer your question, I guess it depends on who's history you subscribe to.

____________________________
Sometimes belief blurs the truth.

The function of belief is to blur the truth.

Granted. :)
PC doesn't get you as far as it once did. ;)

Beth: Just because we have firm beliefs in the role of government and the direction this country should take, that does not automatically mean either side is being manipulated. "Libs" believe "cons" are being manipulated by giant corporate interests and the imagined mutterings of a fag-hating invisible being with a long white beard; "cons" believe "libs" are being manipulated by sandals-with-socks-wearing, Subaru-with-a-rainbow-sticker-driving media poofters, and the sinister machinations of a fag-loving invisible being with horns and a tail. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Yes, we need to work together, but as long as people think it's OK to include invisible beings in our politics, we will remain just as divided as we are now. I have no more solution to propose than you appear to, because Americans do not appear ready to outgrow religion, or recognize that it has no place in our politics.

Dave: As long as a "lib' or a "con" spends more time tearing down the other side (as you are tearing down those who are religious) then they are reacting to the "hot button" issues put out there just for that purpose. They are being manipulated.

Although I'm a firm believer in the separation of church and state, that doesn't mean religion needs to be "outgrown". Karl Marx tried that idea ("Religion is the opiate of the masses") and look how well THAT worked.

And actually, I DO have somewhat of a solution -- it's called a third party, made up of all of those who are sick of being manipulated. It's closer than you think. As the "libs" and the "cons" become more and more shrill, the move to a third party will become stronger and stronger.

Beth: You're exactly right, but I would never look to another party to resolve an issue. A party is corruptible. I believe we've come to a crossroads, where people need to become more involved, and for the first time in our history, we actually have what it takes to make this happen.

I don't want to get off subject, but it is the people that hold the keys this time, and if America stumbles, the blame will fall on us, not those we elected.

With this school, it isn't the school board that will correct what has happened. It is the parents and teachers. If they fail, so will their kids, and there will be no one to blame but themselves because they let it happen.

Beth: I very much respect your point of view, the differences between your opinion and mine and, especially, the respectful, articulate tone you bring to the discussion. I see a problem, I identify it, and I fully expect to be vehemently disagreed with. Ultimately, you are correct: we will only proceed by working together; it's just that you and I identify different reasons why that's not happening. I tend to agree with Jon that another party isn't the solution, but I strongly agree that we need one (and while Marx had it right that religion is indeed a destructive and addictive drug, I have no illusion that humanity will kick it in my lifetime, or those of my great-great grandchildren). I'll work with you despite disagreements. That leaves only .... how many more Americans to get on board?

Thanks for reasoned arguments gentlemen.

While I don't think a third party is the ultimate solution, I do think it's an important first step. Yes, a party is corruptible, but what other option is there? We cannot work alone to fix this country. We need unity. Under the current system, the only way to do that is another party.

BTW, Beth, my newfound ally - a question based on your terminology: I registered Republican in the mid-'80s, when I was very into Ayn Rand and fiscal conservatism, but I have learned a lot since, and am now a good bit to the left of where impetuous youth led me. Does that make me an "Ex-Con?"

As for the new party, if it is to include everyone disgusted with the current system, what will be its platform? Will it be appreciably different from the Libertarians? The Greens? How will it include people across (current) party lines? Would it be a better option to do away with parties altogether and have each candidate run on his or her own platform? Seems like it would be a great deal more honest and less polarizing. A party has to be a tent, which means some folks will be in, and some out; hence, more division.

Hmm. I'm not sure I'll TOUCH that terminology!

To be a bit factious -- it would be the "Throw them out" party. The initial platform would be if they are in, they are now out. The second platform could then be to abolish the party system. But one cannot abolish it without being in it ... unfortunately ... without complete anarchy. That is someplace this country cannot afford to go.

Ex Con and Beth - I think you've both illustrated the point beautifully. I’m so proud of both of you. ;)

That manipulation that was talked about earlier is the first thing we have to deal with IMHO. I grew up in an America where people could gather around a dinner table and voice differing opinions without a fight or loss of respect. Olbermann, Beck and so many others are doing all they can to keep us from the real issues.

In the face of great adversity, this country has always shown its true strength. I’m a New Yorker who now lives in Florida and I’ll tell you something. I lived in SoHo for both WTC attacks. My daughter’s elementary school playground was the landing area for people airlifted from the roof. But as scared as I was during both events, I never felt more a-part-of-something than I did then. We came together.

I just can’t shake the feeling that a blurring of the lines between us is more appropriate than establishing new ones. The more we talk to each other, the more we seem to learn that we are not as different as the “sides” say. I don’t believe in God, but I believe you have the right to, and yes. That is something I would fight for.

I guess what I’m saying is that we should be celebrating what brings us together. Not what pushes us apart.

Does this mean I’m one o’DEM libs? :)

I grin somewhat at the thought that you're proud of Beth and me. I guess I'm a little proud of us, too (and of NCResident, with whom, despite some heated exchanges, I have found a quite comfortable peace). I just don't understand why it takes a tragedy of historic proportions for us to feel like a people. But I am grateful to channels like Newsvine, which allow us to meet people whose paths we never would have crossed, and talk through differences to find real common ground.

I am a proud liberal, and a very proud American. I thank soldiers for their service. I fly my American flag on national holidays. I firmly believe we should consider ourselves humans first, Americans second, and leave political differences in a tertiary position or later. Thanks to all of you on here who are willing to discuss issues civilly despite our differences (and, sometimes, despite our similarities).

Okay, now. You guys are good. I'd be proud to call all of you my friends. Jon, you are so right that we should celebrate what brings us together instead of what pushes us apart. I wrote some comments earlier in which I spoke with my temper instead of with my heart or my brain. Thanks to Dave for letting me see that. I apologize to all who read my disrespectful comments. Beth, I find your ideas interesting. A third party? Not sure it would work, but I agree we need something, definitely more unity. And, by the way, I am glad to say that the principal in Goldsboro, NC was ordered yesterday to stop paying her students for points immediately. Jon, just an interesting tidbit (or maybe it's interesting only to me because I am from the South), but my maiden name is Hardison.

Liz in NC

I paid my children for good grades, on their report cards. They were paid $1 for making the high honor roll and an additional $1 if they made a 100 on their report card. It gave them the chance to earn a little money and they were excited to show their report card. The means they must have used to accomplish this stayed with them throughout elementary and high school because they both graduated in the top 10% of their classes. The population of the town is approx. 1200 and it is a very small school with a graduating class averaging less than 50 students.So needless to say, I'm very proud that they graduated in the top 5. I expected them to do their best and for the most part, they did.

Being from the south, they were also taught respect and manners. They still say 'Ma'am', 'Sir', 'please' and 'thank you'. They will still open the door for an elderly person and a female. My son has held the door for many women that have been rude in return, strictly because they are capable of opening the door for themself.

And yes, they went to church every Sunday for most of their adolescent years.

They are both in their 20's and managing their lives very well.

Children learn what they live and will carry most of it on to their children.

It sounds as if it would have been a pleasure to have taught your children. Paying your own children to achieve good grades is a choice the parents should make. I agree that it can be an incentive to learn. The Goldsboro principal should not pay children for grades. She is wrong. Our schools long ago began to reward students for any and everything. Students were given certificates for simply turning in the work they should have been turning in all along. The "Proud Parent of Such and Such Type of Student" certificate is a prime example of this. They were first given out so that every child could feel successful.. even if said child failed every class he was taking.l