Rock-N-Roll

Didn't Missouri have some very bad earthquakes back in 1811-1812? Maybe it is that time again?

Around 4 this morning local time would have been about 10 GMT (there is a 6 hour difference)????????

Having lived in the Pacific Rim all my life, to include Hawaii, Washington, and Alaska, the continued act of 'fracking' defies all logic. Why would anyone invite an earthquake to occur and potentially place hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives at risk?

Speak up, people, and demand they cease fracking immediately.

I love those dogs.

If the quake is a reaction to fracking, and I don't see how it would not be, what will fraking do to the Keystone pipeline in the nearby area? Until they can absolutely prove without a doubt that fraking along with 1,000 others possibilities will not cause a spill the pipeline should be dead on arrival period. Because of water aquifers in the area. If they guarantee no problems they should be putting their names and the life of their corporation on that bottom line including oil company properties in Canada for collateral towards a guarantee!!!

Jwright:

That is interesting. My Pyr more or less did the same thing prior to a small quake in Oregon some time ago. He didn't go on one of his usual Bark O Thons. Instead he silently prodded my face with his snout till I woke and got on my feet. Very soon after that we started shaking.

Perhaps we need a National Pyr Earthquake Warning System in place. Hmmm. I guess we already do. At our home anyhow....

later gator

If the quake is a reaction to fracking, and I don't see how it would not be

Oh, possibly because it occurred in the immediate vicinity of an active fault known for producing extremely powerful and destructive earthquakes? It couldn't have anything to do with that, could it?

Gary, it should be DOA because any oil going through that pipeline was being sold to China and other countries anyway. None of it was being sold to America. The reason they were going through Texas is that they have a duty free port where they could sell the oil tax free to the Chinese, Europe, and Latin America.

http://www.tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

Geowil- I have been telling people this for months and months, they don't listen. They don't want to be bothered with facts and won't even take the time to look up the info themselves. They prefer to let the talking heads hired by the oil conglomerates to do their thinking for them.

If Fracing causes minor earthquakes that is a good thing. A lot of smaller ones is far superior to one big one. It's the faults that lie dormant for centuries then let go that cause major death and destruction.

You want zones to slip along, not get jambed up to where they can really let loose.

And yes, a 3.0 is very minor.

These quakes in Midwest, and as far East as Washington D.C.....they're beginning to worry me. Here's something to think about:

The great seer and prophet of the mid-20th Century, Edgar Cayce, while in trance stated:

"In a future life, I will live by the seashore in what is now the State of Nebraska."

His secretary was taking notes, but paused to ask, "How can that be, as Nebraska is not by the ocean?"

Mr. Cayce replied, "The land that is between the Gulf of Mexico, north into Nebraska will recede below sea level, allowing the ocean to surge in, and in the twinkling of an eye."

He didn't say when, why, or how. Fracking? Emptying of the aquifer? Polar shift? I'll not be placing any bets, but it does give one pause of mind.

Edgar Cayce had a very high rate of accuracy.

I starting reading this thread resigned to having to see two things: 1: The anti-fracking brigade out in full panic mode with their panties in a bunch screaming about this being caused by fracking (never mind the fact that this quake took place near an active fault), and 2: California natives commenting on and joking about the overreactions of citizens in the midwest to this quake, much like they did when th east coast felt a minor quake last year. Looks like I"m right about at least one of the two.

Gary, Following your brilliant logic about fracking; How do you explain the earthquake of 1811? Just won't fit your liberal take?

Well said aliveinsd. Already have my beachfront property (AKA family farm) in central Nebraska. Maybe the price of land will go up if I list it as "future beach front"!

Keep up the fracking!

That wasn't an earthquake that was just Michael Moore working out.

[Insert your favorite fat celebrity and wow your friends!]

4.0 shakes 9 states? 4.0? These guys really have nothing to report on do they?

Edgar Cayce may have forseen North America rifting along the Mississippi River valley.

I see Gary is worried about taking oil out of the ground and then spilling it on the ground...

Fracking.. The the only fracking is the fracking fools that talk about fracking...

Build the pipeline...Don't they have earthquakes up there in alaska... How much damage have we seen to that pipeline... must have been shutdown daily huh??

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/ <-- earth quake map

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Alaska_Pipeline_System <-- map of alaska pipeline.

http://www.alyeska-pipeline.com/Inthenews/techpapers/4-TAPS%20BelowGround%20Denali%20EQ.pdf

Alaska pipeline report says 7.9 earthquake and no damage to the alaskan pipeline.. And people want to worry about a 4.0 that is hundreds of miles away from where they want to build a pipeline from canada... Get a clue already.

There are all sorts of earthquakes in alaska and that pipeline is fine. The only concern about earthquakes and pipelines is from the stupid people that are ruining this country.

Fracking itself doesn't cause earthquakes, however, if an area of a fault is unstable, it doesn't take a lot to conclude that the shock waves and pressure produced by fracking at those depths could definitely give it nudge.

There are plenty of questions about groundwater contamination, pollution from the fracking waste water, and the gas capture and compression effects on communities and the environment that need to be answered before we consider it safe. And, asking about how stable the land masses and faults are where companies are proposing fracking definitely also need to be considered.

so, the new madrid earthquake, that created reelfoot lake, and was one one of the strongest earthquakes in the history of the United States and the are no real major natural gas drilling in the area that are currently active that i know of...sure, fracking must be the cause.

It's the fault lines fault, I do declare.

To those whose animals woke you up before the shaking:

The experts say that animals can hear the earth rumbling before we can. There are many other stories of animals alerting us before natural or man made disaster.

I remember reading about one survivor of that recent Tsunami, who reported a bird flying right to the table where they were seated, landed, and "squawked, squawked" as loud as it could. They thought that was odd, but looking back, they realized the bird was giving them a warning.

Gary, Following your brilliant logic about fracking; How do you explain the earthquake of 1811? Just won't fit your liberal take?

I guess any concern for the environment means he's a liberal? Don't quite follow the logic there, Ace.

My concern about fracking is that the petroleum companies don't want to tell us what they're pumping into the ground. All they say is, "Don't worry; trust us." Right. They never lie.

I don't know what the hazard level of fracking is; from what I read it's still an open question.

And yes; I know a fair amount about the New Madrid fault, and the 1811-1812 earthquakes. The mid-west is overdue for another big one.

The Alaskan pipeline is above ground whereas the Keystone is in-ground. And yes the Alaskan pipeline continues to have numerous problems. They break the rules and regulations frequently. If you want US to use the Alaskan line as a comparison of things to come then Keystone should be a dead issue. Absolutely no to the Keystone!

Put a pipeline through the Hamptons or Marthas Vineyard and see how fast the idea is killed. Not in my backyard eh?

I'm in California. You call that an earthquake? Out here a 4.0 is like passing gas. (Except for the aroma)

Here a Frack, there a Frack, everywhere a Frack, Frack, Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i oh!

You might want to do a little reading. Different rock makes for different effects.

Gary go read a littlebit... Half of the alaskan pipeline is below ground or in-ground if you prefer. And there are pictures in the reports that I posted where you can see liquified soil right next to where the pipeline goes underground right after a 7.9 earthquake with no damage to pipeline. So yes I do want to use it for comparison. Bottom line... anything can be damaged.. so damage is not an excuse not to build something. unless you like using foolish reasons.

i was awake when this happened, i live by st louis, and felt nothing.

there is ZERO fracking down there, there are NO natural gas or oil deposits in that area of missouri, fracking was NOT the cause.

the article is correct, we get small tremors like that every so often, nothing to worry about.

yes Lloyd and out there in California you think it's the end of the world if it snows an inch every thing's relative

and as for Gary can't think of anything stupider than your comments sept starting a sentence with "and" please don't talk about stuff you don't know about

The new Madrid fault is starting to rumble, many geologists predicted this over 15 years ago; last year Homeland Security ordered to be delivered before 2013, 70 million MRE meals, to be on hand, the name of the order was "Madrid emergency preparations."

the comment at the beginning is really something, Animals can sense a earthquake sometimes hours before it occurs.

PS.. put a pipeline where you need it... and last time I checked there aren't refineries along a path that runs through the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard.. of course I look at maps...

Both pipelines run above and below isn't really the point. Companies who are entrusted with the Alaskan pipeline continue to get busted for their corner cutting bullsh1t.

http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=sea&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=ALASKAN+PIPELINE+FINES+AND+PENALTIES&pbx=1&oq=ALASKAN+PIPELINE+FINES+AND+PENALTIES&aq=f&aqi=q-w1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=17511l51455l0l51530l21l21l0l0l0l0l197l1874l11.8l19l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=786a0116a33b28f4&ix=sea&ion=1&biw=1024&bih=677

Pick your own site to choose from.

My point was and is: how will Canadian oil sands ensure that their pipeline is not going to be a disaster? I don't see how they can guarantee anything and the few jobs in comparison to what another "Big Oil" company is going to make out of the deal is nowhere near what the Good Ole U.S. is going to reap from what anybody in any oil business would sow.

The fact is: fracking is a disaster waiting to happen. Missouri has this quake. Ohio has had numerous small quakes and we have a fault line too. When will the oil and gas "energy" industries be accountable? When have they ever been held accountable? All they want is to rape the land and let others deal with the consequences! All these reasons are ironclad, in my book, as to why the Keystone line should never happen.

aliveinsd

Edgar Cayce had a very high rate of accuracy.

Actually, he didn't. Like all "seers," his predictions and "prophecies" were debunked and myth-busted a long time ago. However, he come up with some really good bread recipes - absolutely delicious!

In 1811 when the New Madrid fault cut lose and rang church bells in Boston, the Mississippi river flowed backwards few people lived in the area of the epic center, the fault lets go big time about every 2 hundred years its over due for a big one, you chicken little people don't need to waste your time predicting that fracking will cause what is going to happen anyways, what you need to concern yourselves with is what will you do when the Gulf of Mexico comes rushing up the Mississippi river valley when the fault causes the ground to collapseand the water moves in at 500 mph or more. then there is always the Yellowstone Super Volcano that is getting ready to do its little thing I suppose we can blame that on something to do with man too, I know lets just blame that on fracking as well, I'll bet if we just stopped all human activities we can freeze time at present and the world will never change again. you know it was those damn Pioneers and their wagons that caused the 1811 earthquake, them and the squatter's digging wells and those outhouses allover the place. why don't you people do some homework and get some facts instead of just jumping to conclusions, if one of you cries you all start crying, I remember some studies going clear back to the 50's that suggest filling all the wells with seawater so their wont be a void. the problem with you people is it does not matter what is being done you will complain and that is where you lose all credibility, you cry about everything, and when you get your way and that issue is over you just move on to a new crying session about some other thing you don't like, in the mean time we become a third world nation and China gets the lost jobs and the world keeps changing just the same.

I read time that the earthquake that struck in the 1800's in Missouri caused the Missouri River to reverse its course- sounded a little far fetched to me

@truesaid Here is the link about the above mentioned Quake. Does say the Mississippi River did "seem to reverse."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1812_New_Madrid_earthquake

I never new they were doing fracking in 1811. Why is it that all of a sudden people are blaming earth quakes on the oil industry. I tell you something to blame on someone.......................

yes Lloyd and out there in California you think it's the end of the world if it snows an inch every thing's relative

That's stretching it a bit. We're not all love, peace, and waterbeds out here. The Loma Prieta? THAT was an earthquake, as was the Northridge. I was actually shaken from my bed from one, and knocked down in a kitchen by the other. Those were quakes you felt, for real. BTW, it snows, sometimes more than an inch, in some pretty interesting places out here.

@ Lloyd

the point was if you have never been in an earth quake even a 4 or 5 seams big do to the momentary confution it creates.but every time some one from an earth quake zone "not just California" has to pipe up about how the quakes they have been in are real and how the little ones don't count "like THEY are some sort of EXPERT" it's just irritating to the rest of us!!!!

Never claimed to be an expert, just experienced a lot of quakes. I'm sure a 4-5 on the scale would rattle most anyone, outside of California. Not saying we're special, just get a lot of quakes for crying out loud. We're used to it.

Don't you know? " It's only a cycle", says the lunatic fringe.

It has nothing to do with blasting hard earth loose underground.Nor does pumping out oil that lubricates the many faults. Funny thing, though.Where do they get that cycle information from?

Now y'all keep it down there in Missouri, or I'll have to call the cops

@ Logic4U: I guess you didn't see the recent reports citing fracking as causing quakes in Oklahoma. If your fairy tale were causing quakes because he was unhappy with the majority choice of Obama in the 2008 elections, he's a little late and in the wrong state.

@Halligator

Remember to get the night vision goggles for night time jigglin'. ;D

of COURSE it's a message from God! It's Him saying "Stop talking for me you sanctimonious morons." All that shaking? It's God laughing at how stupid the #GOP in the south is. Notice how it only was felt in the "Christian" states? Hint: If you NEED to tell people you're a christian or a patriot - you are not one at all. Christianity is an ACTION not a spoken word.

Oklahoma's been experiencing earthquakes long before fracking.

That's only good if your in a strip club and the jiggling was already in motion, before the quake. Just have the dollars to pass when they come jiggling by.

Fracking has nothing to do with Earthquakes. Earthquakes are nothing more then built up friction caused by 2 tectonic plates slipping past or under the other which is suddenly released within in milliseconds. The New Madrid Fault has produced Earthquakes in the past and it will continue to do so for millions of years to come.

Earthquakes happen every day around the world. They happen regardless of which God you believe in. They happen regardless of who your King, President, or Dictator is.

You people are always good for a laugh!

Maybe they were having auditions for The Biggest Loser there.

Not exactly accurate Paul. However, they really are 2 totally different topics. In Nebraska I believe it was, there was a considerable amount of low level shaking going on there for a while in an area where it was unheard of. Once they halted the fracking that was going on, things calmed down almost immediately. However, this was located within 5-10 miles of where the fracking was occurring. Makes sense - you're shooting stuff into the rocks, it's bound to cause shifting. The bigger concern is the potential for contamination of the water table, which is a real concern that's still being investigated.

On the other hand, however, the earthquake in MO had nothing to do with fracking. The New Madrid Fault is well known and well documented. I remember a couple of times the bed shook when I was a kid living in the KC area. This one was nature's own, and I doubt it had any relation to fracking.

If fracing caused earthquakes we would have more than anyone here in West Texas. Stop the insanity!!!!!

Always in the past, Marge.

Sarc/

1811 as in the YEAR 1811? That's hardly news!

Get with the 21st century...

The next one ....is overdue

UDunno 201 years is a blink of an eye in geologic terms. If Skunky is correct and this fault is becoming active again we could be in for one heck of a disaster!

There was recently a show on TV (Nat Geo channel I think) about what would happen the the New Madrid reawakened today and there was another 8 or 9 point earthquake. It was horrifying! Since buildings in the Midwest are built to resist tornadoes and not earthquakes, many many buildings would be completely destroyed. Places like Memphis, St Louis, and even Nashville could be just about leveled. The Mississippi River could change its course or even flow backwards again for awhile.

Shhhh.....now don't go telling people about the New Madrid fault line and its history, they don't want to know about that, don't you know ignorance is bliss?

Geological record for the New Madrid fault shows a major quake (like the one in 1811-1812) every 60-65 years. It's wa-a-ay past due!

Could just be Jesse James making his way through hell.

Tammy, when a fault line is overdue to fracture like that, does it make the quake bigger when it does happen?

No one knows the answer to that as there are many variables that come into play.

Plates slip past each other or collide together. In either case, constant slippage via minor earthquakes continues to release pressure. It's when the plates don't slip that pressure builds, eventually letting go with a violent sudden move. The more smaller quakes you have the less likely a big one will occur because they are not allowing pressure to build.

The scale is log10 so an 8.0 is 100,000 worse than a 3.0 if my math is correct.

Soon we'll all be sanctimoniously condemning people who live there because shouldn't they have known about the New Madrid fault system...

... just like the knuckleheads who lived in New Orleans before Katrina.

the new madrid fault isn't part of a plate system, its a individual crack in the main north american plate, which is part of the reason that it rarely causes quakes, but when it really goes..best hang on and start prayin.

This was God's warning to us that we should all vote for Rick Santorum.

/sarc/

If Skunky is correct and this fault is becoming active again we could be in for one heck of a disaster

Could you imagine a new salt water lake, the size of say, 3-4 midwestern states?

p111 -

Seems like the old adage about a little knowledge being a font of stupidity may be true (I know that's not the adage, but it applies).

What you describe is merely one type of fault - the strike-slip fault. That's when two plates are rubbing against each other, as in the Indo-Australian and Euro-Asian plates, or the California and North American plates. There's also subduction faults, like the Pacific and North American fault line just off the West Coast. There's also hotspots, like Hawaii, plate cracks, like New Madrid, and several other types. It's like playing with blocks, only these blocks are several thousand square miles in area (or bigger), several million tons of weight (or mass), and several miles thick.

People seem to forget that our "solid ground" (or water, for the rest of the 2/3 of the surface of our planet) is actually floating on a bed of molten rock, powered by a super-hot core and gravitational tide effects. This molten rock is spinning (providing us with a magnetic field, among other things). The currents of the rock are affected by things like: uneven cooling due to volcanic activity, thickness of the plates, surface characteristics of the plates, motion of the plates, differences in densities/chemical makeup of certain areas caused by coalescence of materials, etc.

TL;DR version: there's a lot more @!$%# going on down there. As RwEvans pointed out, the New Madrid fault is not caused by plates slipping past, and will not be alleviated significantly by lubricating the fault line to create more small earthquakes. That's an unfounded hypothesis. Lubrication of fault lines by liquids has been shown to increase earthquake activity. Look up the effect that oil drilling has had on the Mexia fault lines in Texas. Interesting stuff.

As for the regular fracking, no, it has not been proven to cause earthquakes. Now, the waste-water disposal at high pressure in deep wells drilled for that purpose has been linked to earthquake activity. Ohio has experienced earthquakes directly under a disposal well. While this activity is relatively minor (about 3.5, IIRC), it is still unusual and a cause for concern in determining future, and evaluating current, sites for wastewater disposal. Not only that, but fracking has also been shown to cause subsidence (sinking) in areas due to the disruption of the natural bedrock formations that support the land. Of course, this has been known since the early 20th century due to the sinking of several oil fields around Houston. Not only that, but the water pressure in aquifers is significantly reduced due to the high volume being extracted for processing and use in fracking. Since that water can't be put back into the aquifer, there is significant increase in net loss of mass and, therefore, pressure to support the ground above.

As for those people that insist the Alaskan pipeline is safe from earthquakes, yes, they did build it to withstand significant shifts rather resiliently. It's a shame that it still continues to spring leaks due to poor design and poor maintenance (mostly the latter). A pipeline is going to leak, regardless of what you do to mitigate it. The question is, how much leakage is acceptable? If the Keystone XL is going to be built over the Ogalala, which supplies most of the Great Plains fresh water as well as down into North Texas, then it seems as if it's an awful risk to pollute 1/3 of the country for no noticeable gain, other than 10,000 man-years of work (employing approximately 5,000 people for 2 years), and that's a best-case scenario. But that's my opinion.

http://www.alyeska-pipeline.com/Inthenews/techpapers/4-TAPS%20BelowGround%20Denali%20EQ.pdf

1. 7.9 earthquake at the alaskan pipeline and no damage... (see report above)

2. No matter where you build anything it will eventually result in damage and problems and leaks. It's not an IF...it's a when.

Move forward and build what we need and quit making excuses about why we can't do it. Yep it will have damage one day.. so what... move somewhere else...it's a free country.

Something else to keep in mind is that the 11 year solar cycle plays a part in all of this as well. It's been shown that at the peak of a solar cycle, the earth reacts with an increase of natural disasters. The peak for the current cycle is to hit either the end of 2012 or early spring of 2013, depending on your source. Do a lookup of the number of natural disasters per year for the past 4 years; the increase is pretty startling! There is a potential for several things to cumulate in the next 2 years: the magnetic fields are shifting far more quickly and geological evidence shows that their reversal has happened more than once in the past. Given the limited knowledge and information we have based off of historical evidence, we're past due for a LOT of events - the New Madrid going off, magnetic pole reversal, etc. Add that to the solar cycle and things could get really bad in the next year or so. And it could all come to pass harmlessly with no major events of any kind, we just don't know. Either way it doesn't hurt to be prepared for an emergency!

I'm no expert on the matter but why cant the rail system be beefed up an transport the oil by rail instead of a pipeline.

Steve W. -

Do you have any idea where the hell your food comes from? I assume you don't live in the Ogalala area. In that case, why don't we build the pipeline in your backyard, over your source of water. That way, when it leaks, you can feel completely justified over those 2 years you had a job working on it, and the disease and misery your job caused will have a more direct impact on you.

MoMonkey -

These things are not, strictly speaking, subject to our linear timescale. There is no such thing as "overdue," technically speaking. Systems change over time. Some are more cyclical, but the magnetic fields of the sun have much less of an impact on earthquake frequency than others. Storms, radiation spikes, and such, yes; not earthquakes.

Like people saying "we're overdue for a meteor strike" or "we're overdue for another big earthquake" or "we're overdue for another big plague." These things don't follow a human timeframe. They are caused by other factors, many of which are more random than not, and often require a confluence of characteristics within a certain timeframe. No confluence, no disaster.

To give an example: let's say the earthquake in LA in 1986 was the last "big one." People go back and look over data and see that the earthquake pattern was about once every 20 years. Therefore, LA became overdue for the next "big one" in 2006 (by the way, this is all hypothetical as I have no idea of the time scale of earthquakes in LA, even "big ones"). However, what they fail to realize in this hypothetical scenario is that the last "big one" actually caused major damage to the fault line in the San Andreas area. This damage resulted in an overall decrease in integrity of the faces that abut the fault, and, therefore, the plates move more freely against each other for a much longer period. The next big one, therefore, will only occur when the plates have crumbled enough of the low-integrity rock formation away and arrive at a point where the rock faces become high-integrity again and the shape is right to provide large sections which lock in place without giving, and then the pressure has had enough time to build up.

Now, strictly speaking, as not being a geologist, this is an oversimplification based on a simple friction model scaled up, along with basic materials analysis, etc. However, this is the way things can work. You can get a lot of smaller, smoother movement for long periods of time, then little to no movement for a while, then a big movement, then another big movement, then no movement, then big, then little, etc. In other words, time doesn't matter as much as the physical characteristics of the current state.

Didn't realize there's been fracking going on for 20 years. (at least that's how long I remember quakes happening in southeast missouri)

I'm not sure there's fracking in that area. This might while have been just a normal New Madrid Fault earthquake. Earthquakes in that area are common and the result of Mother Earth herself, not mankind's arrogance. Hopefully, this was not a foreshock!

there's enough about fracking to be disgusted with, no point in connecting it to things it's not connected to.

is the new madrid fault line connected to yellowstone at all? I know there's been lots of activity at yellowstone for some time and there's been lots of concern about "the big one" blowing there...always wondered how connected earthquakes and volcanoe's are

I wonder if drilliing for oil harms the earth, what happens to the place where the sea of oil was when it is pumped out of the earth, do u think if it was damaging the planet they would say, maybe water from the earth goes there never to be seen again who knows, wonder if making dams that hold back millions of gallons of water effects the earth wonder if the weight displacement of cities effects the earth oh well with good old hard cash on the block guess we will never know till its to late

The latest report says fracking and earthquakes are not related. Nightly news. believe it if you want.

Sorry, but that is wrong. That area is on the New Madrid fault line.

The fracking doesn't help, but in all fairness, the fault lines are already there. We've had earthquakes so bad in the midwest they have changed the course of the Mississippi river. Fracking won't do any favors, but the propensity is there already.

pat -

Question -

If there is no 'fracking' (which is shown to be totally unrelated to the causes of earthquakes, by the way) in the area, how is it even possible to cause an earthquake in the New Madrid fault area?

Why not research the facts instead of regurgitating the 'environmentalist' propaganda?

Wellm actually two questions...

You think so? I am not sure where you think you get your wisdom from but your fracking has nothing to do with this.

Funny comment though.

Fracking does indeed cause earthquakes, albeit small ones, so far. I don't know where you are getting your info that it doesn't but I got mine from some field geologists down here in S.TX where fracking has become a plague.

You know, the physics of the thing is pretty simple. Drill a really deep hole, create massive pressure, enough to fracture the bedrock for miles, and then pull out the oil and gas that had been part of that structure for millions of years. I believe it is called Newton's third law. Look it up.

Yep, all that fracking going on in the 1800's really caused the big one back then. Where do some of you people on this site come from? Where did you drop out of school from? Please get an education before you spread your ignorance. For God's sake please do not have children.

The problem is it's in the noise. How can you tell if fracking caused a 1.0 quake when they happen all the time?

Again, if it is causing minor quakes that's a good thing, it's releasing pressure. If it ever does release a big quake it is only because the area built up so much pressure it was going to blow anyway. Fracking is a non issue, period.

oooooh....2012! lol

Wow, I am a geologist and fracking has nothing to do with earthquakes in Missouri or anywhere else. These earthquakes have been happening longer than the past 150 years since wells were drilled in the US. I will admit fracking may have an impact on ground water quality in some areas but not with earthquakes. We can't fracture a well with anywhere close to the pressure mother nature produces to cause an earhtquake. Please educate yourself on the subject, then speak. Oh, and Kathy Stuart, the reason they "fracture the bedrock for miles" is because it probably is a horizontal wellbore. I have yet to see anything proving fracking causes earthquakes.

And we all know that is what caused the 1811 quake! Did I just hear, oh yes I did, the Cuckoo Clock ..... Ding Cuckoo, Ding Cuckoo .......

I would ask you to stick to facts ........ but those are never a part of MSNBC!

@Ace814-Since you're a geologist, I would welcome your opinion on the current pipeline plan possibly creating havoc with the Great Water Basin. It's in my backyard practically. They say they are working on an alternate plan that may be safer for the water basin that millions depend on for our water supply. What about fracking in sand and limestone? Let alone placing a pipeline in fragile, shifting rock.

so you felt something then?

oh the english language, so tricky for some...downright impossible for others.

kinda like "I could care less"

kinda like "I could care less"

Yes, but we all say that and know what it means.

Comprehension, so tricky for some... downright impossible for others.

Cassie- we don't all say, "I could care less" some of us actually say "I couldn't care less," just like some of us realize using a double negative changes the meaning and therefore the comprehension, of a statement.

Yup its funny that no one links fracking to the thousands of Birds dying in Beebe, Arkansas, and the hundreds of thousands of fish dying in the river next to Beebe. Now an earthquake pretty damn close to the same spot, not to mention all the Fracking near there. The sheeple will never awaken, not until it damages a nuclear reactor or something like that.

ROTFLMAO at jenncoolfla & MR2KUHL!! Better get some more aluminum foil to cover your heads, hehehe!

Baaaaaa Baaaaaa money rules with greed they wont stop anything that harms the earth and the sheep bend

So how do I tell the difference between a fracking earthquake and one of our normal ones?

Or it could wake people up to the fact there is something called the New Madrid Seismic zone. This area doesn't do much fracking anyway.

Or would you say an earthquake in California is also due to fracking?

Also fracking doesn't rupture tectonic plates. That is impossible. You may need some science to figure this out.

fxstc you should invest in some aluminum foil too i hear it helps people to not be rude and it also keeps them from making cliche remarks about nerdy stereotypes

I am a geologist and I will say this earthquake is totally natural.

Well Granitegirl I too am a geologist and would argue that the increase pressure and provide this article and others that would SUPPORT the evidence of fracking's causation of plate shifting:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ohio-earthquake-likely-caused-by-fracking

@jenncoolfla

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this earthquake was not even 1000 miles near a tectonic plate boundary so your fracking connection is totally bogus if not influenced by an orchestrated litany of lies.

Oh Krestov... where is YOUR science to back up your claims?

http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2012/01/23/could-fracking-earthquakes-shake-pennsylvania/

Virginia is not on a fault yet we had a quake here. Ohio is not on a fault and they too had a quake...

The only thing "fracking" had to do with this earthquake is a way to describe the ignorance associated with both phenomena. You know, as in "There is so much pseudo-science parading around as "science" that it's fracking ignorant.

My scientific evidence is that these places are no where near tectonic plates. Referring to your original statement "Fracking is rupturing the tectonic plates."

Here is a map for you (http://snobear.colorado.edu/Markw/Mountains/03/week3.html) of where the tectonic plate boundaries are, it is at these boundaries where ruptures of tectonic plates occur, not in the middle of them where these earthquakes you are referring to occur. I think you mean something else.

Yep fracking back in 1811 along the New Madrid fault is what caused one of the worst series earthquakes in American history. Get off the board idiot.

@jenncoolfla You claim to be a Geologist and yet you made this statement: "Virginia is not on a fault yet we had a quake here. Ohio is not on a fault and they too had a quake…"

Boy talk about awkward for you; here are a list of the more significant Fault-lines in these two states. There are also a myriad of smaller faults and also new ones to be discovered.

Virginia Fault Lines: Run Fault, Brookneal Fault, Shores Fault, Lakeside Fault, Spotsylvania Fault, Hylas Fault.

Ohio Fault Lines: Middleburg Fault, Akron/Suffield Fault, Smith Township Fault, Highlandtown Fault

I may have missed one or two for which I give my apologies however my point is where did you get your information that there were no faults? If it was from the same school you were taught to be a geologist I would see if they give refunds. Really.

There was a quake in the mid 90's that I felt in Indiana while fishing on the Wabash River.

That fault is do for a big one. Fracking in that area is all most non existant. Does fracking cause problems?

But this is a major fault line in the midwest.

Real science does not need your Chicken Little uninformed crap to set it back. Science haters just love to see your kind of mindless reactionary posting to support them.

Shut up and let the adults talk dude.

Thank you Krestov, for that additional information. So, there ARE, and have been, for a long time, many little fault lines in the general area of Ohio, WVA and VA, also the surrounding states after all! Yes, and even though we are on a harder more solid, granite plate...which causes a farther ranging shake with more duration and a longer echo effect too. Uh huh. Geology 101.

So, you would think in addition to the deep liquefaction and pollutant problems of toxic chemicals that, from what we hear cannot be cleaned out because some of this is actually radon, radioactive stuff, that can eat through the soil even that far down and soften and deteriorate with erosive force to cause sink holes, but in addition to this, you would think that these developers would take this into consideration too?

Nah. Nothing to worry about farmers! Your homes, streams, and fields will be just fine. If anything happens, its not that company's fault, blame Mother Nature. She did it, she reacted and tried to shake a few fleas off her back. Meanwhile, the short term profits are being made...by suckers whose long term logic is not clear, who are only seeing the $ possibilities. Let's just simply put it this way, if there are deep holes where all of seismic activity this goes off, it sure won't be pretty. Who even wants to live on top of an old abandoned cave for that reason already? Some land back in these parts goes for real cheap, but best to test first...there are reasons why folks. Same reasons why they put canaries in the coal mines in the first place, that stuff is volatile down there too. Its natural gas, right?

Think about it first. Its a deep hole you're digging and a long way to fall. Even packed fill will not solidify the hole always, folks have this problem with old wells. What then, on such a larger scale, is the difference with deep drilling on land or in the ocean, after a point erosion is erosion. Just a common sense question one would bring up in class...fair enough. Let's address some real issues with this out on the table...let The People who live in the area vote on it, the neighbors who will suffer for what their fellows did in selling out next door, surely they do not want to lose their family homesteads, yea, fair enough is the way on this....can we say exploitation of Americans and their personal property?

Anonymous Insight - great name for you as after that blathering idiocy I'd want to hide also. Do you believe your own ranting...that is some really stupid stuff! Man, the American education system has either failed greatly or you skipped school between 1st and 12th grades.

I pity someone who lives with you...they'd need to be on drugs...dude, get a grip!

Change your name to Anonymous Intelligence!

ROTFLMAO at jenncoolfla & MR2KUHL!! Time for the foil hats! You know, I bet George W Bush must have a hand in this also .............. Ding Cuckoo .............

Really David Stone? Is that all you can come back at me with? Talk about blathering idiocy, not one link, not one reference, not one fact, not one statement about the topic??? All you do is rant about me??? On what grounds? Do you even understand how to debate the issue? Here, perhaps I can help with some more real information about the topic.

"Drilling for oil is pretty basic. You drill a hole until you hit oil, then extract it. The question logically follows that if you extract all the oil, what takes it's place in the ground? The answer is simple. Nothing. This causes a vast area where the crust of the earth is unstable and has to equalize. The end result would usually be an earthquake. To use "fracking" to extract natural gas requires injecting water and "chemicals". The chemicals are mostly acids- hydrochloric, ascetic, etc. and methanol and formaldehyde. The last two are what I would consider to be the most dangerous to humans. This sludge is what causes the biggest problem when it is extracted with the natural gas. How it is treated is the question. Some states allow that it be sent to waste water treatment facilities. This is a big mistake since the chemicals are all listed has hazardous materials according to CFR49. Also, the earthquakes that occurred near fracking facilities in Ohio raise serious questions about the long term effects of extraction..." ref. #90 Rocky Racoon

"January, 2012; Youngstown, Ohio, had its 11th earthquake since St. Patrick’s Day on New Year’s Eve—a magnitude-4.0 on the Richter Scale, the highest to date...What makes the minor rumble newsworthy is that until 2011, Youngstown had never had a recorded earthquake...What changed? Fracking."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/03/youngstown-rocks-is-fracking-causing-earthquakes-in-ohio.html

Bedford County, PA water contamination from fracking...

http://energy.aol.com/2011/11/03/midnight-pennsylvania-explosion-fuels-new-marcellus-gas-safety-c/

Good point...let us be reminded that fracking is working with natural gas, a volitile substance, no? Combine this with seismic activity? Water erosion. Deep drilling into the earth? Things happen to other things at the surface, like San Bruno and Durham Woods explosions, right? That could be spooky under your home, and quite hot. But then I guess they don't have a baseline on safety stuff like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyMbaZ9FVjA&feature=related

And so, do I believe my own ranting? Yes and many other people and good factual sources too. Perhaps you have been the one hiding...your head in the sand? I don't do drugs, no one I care to know does dude. Hope I enlightened you a little with some facts here though.

Now, as a property owner who could be affected by the things the links I have added as references show you, what I want to know is do I file a private suit or will the government exercise eminent domain to compensate me for my lost home and property? Do you know what that is, will you please define eminent domain for me??? Yes, I did go to school - well beyond the 12th grade, and guess what? I have successfully proved your ungrounded assumptions completely wrong and that is all that matters here.

Yes. "Fracking." Now can you say "New Madrid Fault"?

I remember the earthquakes of 1811-12. They were very violent and destructive but were a blessing in disguise for my family construction business. We had more work than we could handle in rebuilding cabins, shacks and Indian villages around the area. Even got into pier building around the newly formed Reelfoot Lake.
Then someone "fracked" and the lake drained...hmmm...swimming pools...or catfish farms...always a bright side.

Elyse .......... can you say that there was no fracking going on in 1811! The MSNBC Parrots are out in full force on this one. Don't worry Butch Maddow will save you from the evil oil and gas companies ............

DStone: "I remember the earthquakes of 1811-12."

Really? Were you alive then? I think you are about a hundred years too late on that guess. Remember your American History??? The war of 1812?

There was no family construction business and you do not even locate this "Reelfoot Lake" in any state, no pier building by pioneers because most had not even settled yet in states west of the 13 Colonies, and there were probably Indian Villages in most of the areas west of the colonies from what confusing information you supply. Your words are completely vague and baffling to anyone.

You must be joking, ha ha funny NOT. Go back and do some real homework and research on this topic, then add something constructive to the conversation here. Until then you get an F at any kind of communication and are just using up troll space.

We do and they do...The Emergency Management people have been holding earthquake drills for several years now in the areas that would be affected by a New Madrid blowup.

I am a builder and I wonder about the building codes out there. Here in C.A. the codes are pretty intricate as far as seismic countermeasures. I lived in Tennessee for 5 years and building there was standard. The only seismic countermeasures for that state was related to wind. (wind is considered seismic when speaking of building) Hopefully this will be a wake up call for the state to vamp up the building codes in case of a larger quake like the one in 1811. One story homes are built just fine to handle magnitude 7 quakes and maybe larger, but the taller buildings in that area could be total death traps.

I fear that if the big one hit Memphis, a city I am somewhat familiar with, much of the downtown area would be a pile of bricks. (One wall of a building downtown once collapsed just from the vibrations caused by pneumatic drills and construction!) Mud Island, an island made of river silt and containing housing developments and apartments, would likely be gone. They are trying to update codes and so forth so that the city will be safer. I can only pray that I am wrong and that things will be updated before the quake actually hits.

seen too much, mike and mstanley: I hope that your emergency plans can cover the reality of a sizable temblor. Preparedness and prevention also helps. It is good to know how to turn your gas main off quickly as well as your electric always. Practice it or have someone show you and keep a wrench nearby if you need one. Also, keep some fire extinguishers on each floor and the typical smoke alarms that can warn you if sleeping. I can assure you, that like a tornado or something big, a sizable temblor will groan or roar and shake you right out of your sleep and you will awaken with the panic knot already in your chest or rising to your throat as it has mine on a couple occasions in our Southern California quakes over the years, namely the one in 1971 and the one in 1994.

In 1971 I was working for an architectural firm in Southern California and it so happens that one of the architects I worked with was a part of the team that built the Olive View Hospital in the Sylmar Quake up in the hills of the San Fernando Valley. We lost two hospitals up there, a couple overpasses where people were killed, and we were actually very nervous about the dam collapsing too, thank goodness it stood.

One hospital was the Veterans which was a mess, and the other one was damaged but stood. That one was Olive View. It stood because my friend was very smart in building the towers so that they would take some of the force and fall outward in a quake, which they did. They were designed to do that at the four corners, and saved the central part of the building where many patients were. However, much else toppled. Here is the documentary on the Sylmar Quake of 1971 which covers the details throroughly, (arrow back to here.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiabD0WBl7w

All of our brick fascia buildings must be to code for earthquake safety by being threaded/reinforced with steel lines. If you have studied the disastrous earthquake of San Francisco in 1906 and marveled at the old photography of before and after, you will see that many of the high and beautifully designed Victorian city buildings came tumbling down. This is because they were not threaded by reinforcement steel. Film footage of San Francisco quake aftermath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gx4fzQvEI8&feature=relmfu

Many of the old buildings back east are not threaded. I would suggest that those who can afford to do so, reinforce their residential buildings if they are in need of structural strengthening, such as wooden beams that are old over basements, and to replace brick facades that are not steel reinforced. The same goes for brick walls and chimneys that can topple. Do stay away from them if a sizable temblor ever occurs as they will crumble in a heap and kill anyone near them. The homes in California are mostly ranch style single story, but it is popular to have a second story lately with condos and apartments. In the earthquake of 94 some folks got a pretty good roller coaster ride over their carports and came tumbling down.

It was pretty scary as many who were in the San Fernando Valley area that night can tell you. Please never underestimate what a quake can do. We lost a friend on a freeway in the 94 quake when it crumbled under his motorcycle and he went over early in the morning and our family homes all sustained damage. Here is some coverage from '94 to remind you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xV1xRP7XQI

bitchin

That's 200 years ago, 1811/1812. But don't worry, time gets away from me too the older I get.

And changed course. That's why the area I grew up in had sand for soil. Bad for growing a lawn, good for playing in when you're a kid! :)

It was reported the Mississippi flowed backward for 3 days! The indians said the land was waving like the sea.....

Thanks for corrections... :)
Mississippi flowed back in some areas for several days to flood basins created by the quake, but the initial height difference supposedly did not last that long. The land was initially elevated in the quake, subsiding later in some areas by as much as 100 feet. If similar quake happened now, with the current density of population the loss of life would be in the hundreds of thousands.

That's 200 years ago, 1811/1812. But don't worry, time gets away from me too the older I get.

Those that fail to learn from history..............

Dr. Larry, I have been waiting for one of these "literate ones" to finish your statement which is a well known gem of a quote by Santayana.

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/56610.George_Santayana

...but no one has, so allow me to complete the sentence and thank you for contributing this wise logic which is ever so appropriate to this situation.

From The Life of Reason, (1905-06). Volume 1,"Reason in Common Sense":

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

George Santayana

I believe you.

Personally, I think the Californian/Mexican border is ready for a huge one. Somewhere between Tijuana and San Diego. I would never live in San Diego for just that reason. The Californian /Oregon border is also ready to rumble.

These spots rumble constantly. Join the USGS. You might be surprised.

I moved to L.A. about 2 years ago and I have only felt one small quake in that time. It was kinda fun actually. A new experience. I keep thinking that we are gonna get a big one soon too. Not that my feelings are correct predictors of such things, but living here, one cant help but wonder... At least here we wont get tsunamis cause the plates move parallel with the shoreline. It is where the plates move toward and away from the shoreline that you get the big tsunami's. Alaska is prone to them, but here not so much.

well if you look at it scientifically then oil natural gas and all the crap they are digging for are holding the crust up with hydraulic pressure if you remove that fluid then you are leaving caverns open when said caverns collapse then you would think it would cause tiny rumbles but i forget conservatives reject science and embrace willfull ignorance so disregard that which was just said

and they couldnt care same as when they pollute the oceans for those that believe we evolved i think it went backwards monkeys are smarter

There is so much ignorance parading around as "science", it's pathetic. Just like climate change, you have to look at scale. If I hit a tree with a hammer, some liberal claims it causes a building 50 miles away to collapse. They totally ignore the fact that the building was undergoing controlled demolition at the time.

Man is such a tiny contributor to this universe, we can do our worst for centuries and never cause the effects that nature can dish out in seconds. A lot of people like to think we have more impact, but we don't.

None of this means we should harm our environment, i.e., soil our own house. We just need to be practical about spreading our resources.

Derpy, they reject science and embrace the dollar.

Derpy, they reject science and embrace the dollar.

You must be talking about Al Gore.

Nah Al Gore is cool. I'm cool. Derpy is cool. I don't know about you yet. Are you cool?

Derpy - really:
well if you look at it scientifically then oil natural gas and all the crap they are digging for are holding the crust up with hydraulic pressure...

Do you know how think the earth's crust is...well, saw your head open and its thicker than your skull!!!!!
If your theory was correct the earth would be collapsing all over the world...and it is not.

I love the argument of "oil haters," if you hate it so much stop using it - stop driving - stop using any product made from oil or else SHUT UP!

I'd love to see your attitude change when we run out of oil...like no food delivery, no food growing...about no nothing...are you that "green" stupid! You turned AlGore!

You better start cutting your firewood now before we run out of that. Learn how to garden and hunt. Can you handle doing that David? I don't know if you are cool either. Just by your use of upper case SHUT UP! tells me you aren't. Are ya?

i dont hate oil i just know how things generaly work and if a tiny fracture happens deep in the crust no matter how deep its gonna cause some kind of seismic activity due to the shift it causes also in the 50s tesla invented wireless energy but the oil barons rejected his permanent solution for their temporary money maker but im sure whenever they run out of oil they will tap geothermal and use wireless energy and charge you just as much as gas

Overdue - by over a hundred years.

You think fracking is responsible here? I agree that fracking can cause Earthquakes, but I live in Missouri, and I'm not aware of natural gas drilling going on here. The huge deposits they are going after are in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So when it rains a lot and it floods and the water seeps into the ground why aren't there more earthquakes????

Likewise: when there is a drought and the groundwater disappears...why are there not more earthquakes?????

Reactionary left-wing garbage trying to bring down our country's industry, business and energy industry.

good comment falconear.

David Stone, you need to read more and write less.

Think of Shockwaves as ripples caused by tossing a pebble into a pond. As long as there is nothing in the way to stop the ripples they generally don't cause too much disturbance of the water. However, if you were to put something in the way of the ripple as it expanded out you would see that the energy of the ripple would start to disturb the water in a more "violent" manner.

The same thing applies to shock-waves of Earthquakes. Depending on how deep or shallow the quake is and the make up of the bedrock and material in the surrounding areas, you may or may not feel the shock-wave much if at all. Also, the shaking may not be as bad at the epicenter but as the shock-wave radiates out, the frequency of the shaking changes which causes it to be felt more the further it travels.

The San Andreas Fault is also long overdue as well.

The New Madrid fault line is a dangerous one and is long overdue for a major very destructive quake because building codes are lacking.

Not to mention the location of the fault is not on solid bed rock. They will have to deal with liquefaction, as the ground will shake like jello; making shaking more intense and movement continue after the initial shock has occurred. Besides New Madrid has a proven track record of 8's to 9's. San Andreas is also over due, but the record is that low 8's. Most of California is on solid bedrock; which would jar your teeth out of your head, not bounce you around like your on a water bed.

Neither fault line when it goes will be enjoyable experience; due to the many factors involved with each fault line. It will be one of those things that you better just grab your backside and hang on for dear life; as it will not be a pleasant ride. Not to mention the lack of facilities and services for the first 72hr up to a week. The damaged area will also affect the rest of the country, if a big enough one hits the airports, bridges, and highway systems will be affected. Hence the problem of getting of food, water, and medical supplies a real issue. Just pray is doesn't happen in the dead of winter.

Yeah, I live in mid-Missouri, and I was wondering about that too. Fracking in Missouri? Since when do we have big natural gas deposits? Fracking is bad enough without us ascribing natural events to it...