Doc - this is not the wild west. Don't think Israel will be wiped of the face of the earth.

As long as we support Israel, I don't think Iran poses a serious threat, at least not directly. If they launch against Israel, we will obliterate them. If they give dirty bombs to Hamas or Hezbollah, Israel will obliterate those groups and the world will applaud. The Palestinians will be toast.

It's just a prestige thing. Iran's saying, "You're not the boss of me," so they can look tough to the masses.

Your ignorance and bias are clearly showing in your post. Israel has not been calling for the destruction of another nation, that is the Iranians. Do you really think a country should sit back and let a self proclaimed enemy bent on your total destruction develop the weapons they need to do it!!! The Iranian leadership has stated publicly, multiple times that they do not believe that Israel has any right to exist and that it is their mission to wipe Israel off the map. Do you really expect the Israelis to sit back and let them develop nuclear weapons to do it with.

The recent Iranian releases regarding their work on their Fordo nuclear enrichment facility makes it pretty clear that they are looking at more than civilian nuclear power. Their claim that the 20% enriched uranium they are producing is only for a research reactor is an obvious lie. This is because they have already enriched many time the amount of uranium needed to fuel this research reactor to this higher level. The only reason for this massive production of 20% enriched uranium is as a precursor to further enrichment to weapons grade. The IAEA estimates that Iran has enough uranium stock to make enough highly enriched uranium to fuel approximately 15 good sized nuclear weapons.

The Iranian efforts towards installing new generation centrifuges capable of far more rapid enrichment of uranium also clearly indicates their plans to develop nuclear weapons. Since they already have far more 20% enriched uranium than they need for peaceful purposes, the only reason for upgrading a facility designed for higher level enrichment is to facilitate production of weapons grade material. Once they have these new centrifuges installed, the time they will need to produce weapons grade material will be uncomfortably short. It ill be to the point that they could have the material produced before we could plan and execute a strike on the facility to try and stop them. In addition, this facility was built well underground, making it very hard to take out and also clearly indicating its military purpose. Peaceful nations do not build facilities like this deep underground and deny IAEA inspectors access to the facility if their purpose is peaceful.

It is time to stop screing around and allowing the Iranians to stall with the hollow promise of talks. None of the many rounds of talks to date have resulted in any progress on getting them to stop. They have no intention of changing their plans to develop nuclear weapons and only military action will stop them.

Guaranteed, Israel will not attack Iran first.

Iran will attack Israel first. Then retaliation from Israel. It may be the US who attacks Iran first. We have Iran surrounded by US Warships ready to fight the Nuclear War.. Obama is caught in the triangle of Iran, Israel, and the US. Can he muster up the guts to settle this one.

Israel does their retaliation in very understated ways---they have made some strategic attacks already, to Iran's Nuclear Buildup.

The entire Middle East will be under atomic fallout/casualties if a Nuclear Bomb was set off. Iran will do it first. No care for Human life. The Iranian Government is short sighted. Cutting off their Oil to EU.

Yet, Europe may do the job---it's a game of who's first.

One thing I have learned is to believe exactly the opposite of what the main stream media tells us.

Israeli has had it's neighbors try to wipe them out at least once before, guess what, they couldn't do it. Nor will they do it if they tried again.

Zaruski:

What?

Judaism is a close form of the Islamic Religion?

Judaism believes in the Old Testament (Bible/Torah), and the Islamists follow the KORAN to a "T"; remember, the Religion of Peace; they promote their own deaths as martyrs, honor killings, slaughtering their own people, beheading, or cutting off limbs if one takes a misstep. Women are physically abused; they are nothing to their husbands, who may have several or many wives.

The Jews promote LIVING. Suicide is not acceptable. They put their daughters, wives, and other women on a high level of regard. Honoring them, and treasure their children who are gifts of a Miracle..

What a seriously exaggerated statement: Judaism is much NOT like Islam. An uniformed comparison. What an insult to those who practice Judaism, and to all Christians who they very much respect.

Great Comment Zaruski...

Israel cannot afford to wait, easy for us to ask them to.

I think that Iran is probably looking very hard at North Korea and its use of a hard military, dispersal and hardening of resources to the point that they are almost impossible to destroy completely, the iron hand of the elite over the military, and the use of a handful of nukes to forestall any reaction to North Korea. Don't think that Iran didn't notice when a North Korean submarine sunk a state-of-the-art South Korean Navy ASW corvette not only without being detected, but walking away unpunished.

Iran has also learned from countries where the military has flourished at the expense of the private sector. There are some really shocking similarities between Egypt's military and Iran's Revolutionary Guards.

And don't think that they were not watching events in Libya as Ghadaffi was deposed.

I really think that Iran thinks it can handle domestic issues with a very "empowered" military such as has been ruling Egypt since Sadat. And I think they see North Korea as very successfully baiting the US and South Korea and even Japan, knowing that they are not going to be retaliated against no matter what they do. I think that Iran would like to become this sort of figure in the Muslim world. But it would have to be very high profile, much higher than North Korea's, in order to offset the fact that Iran is not Arabic.

The most likely high-profile pain-in-the-ass they could be would be a long string of incidents and closures of the Hormuz Straits. An attempt of a sub attack such as North Korea pulled off would also play well in the Persian Gulf since Iran has the subs and could well be lying in wait, undetectable, even as I type. It would be almost impossible to prevent this sort of attack, especially in the confines of the Straits or the shallower parts of the Gulf.

Hawaii2: I can't speak for Islam as I haven't read the Koran, but the Old Testament is a litany of misogyny. Women were chattel to be given to men as suited their fathers. Only the men were counted in Numbers; the women were their property, along with livestock. I remember a passage in one of the early books where a father wants to spare his sons some embarrassment so he offers his daughters up to do with as they will. A woman had zero rights under the Old Testament.

(I should be done reading it soon. Here's hoping the New Testament isn't so objectionable.)

Excuse me; you must live in somewhere in "lalaland" and under the premise of turning your cheek the other way thinking that the problems in the Middle-east will simply go away by abandoning the only true ally we have there. Your concern is safety and that's understandable, but for how long? Again, go ahead and turn your cheek around and enjoy a short-lived "peace of mind." Nothing is perfect under this Sun, and these new heightened sanctions will only stall Iran for a couple of years or so. But, they do provide a necessary "springboard" effect to finally convince the Iranians (the people) that the only way towards stabilization is for regime or ideological change.

AG:

Thank you for your comments.

You must have watched Fiddler on the Roof too many times. Untrue; some want to believe what they see---

Do more research on the Old Testament---the women of Biblical times may have had "limited rights", but it not practiced in today's mainstream Society. There are many levels of Judaism---Lubavitch, Hasids, Ultra Ultra Orthodox, but that is only a very tiny group today---and NO VIOLENCE to their women or children. That is their gift/love held in high regard.

LYING is the only word I have to describe anyone who hasn't already offered their gas attendant 3 times as much as they pay for at least the past year, and then says we should stop supporting Israel.

Put your money where your mouth is and start funding your gas station to get your gas somewhere other than the Middle East. Otherwise keep yer yap shut!

The US has been encouraging Israel to "get" Iran for months now quietly and under the table and behind closed doors. Just in public and in the press is the US saying the opposite.

"Last week, Israel accused Iran of being behind a string of attempted attacks on Israeli diplomats in India, Georgia and Thailand."

What did you expect? Israel is killing the Iranian scientists and that's OK but if Iran tries the same they cry about it? If Israel attacks Iran we will be much closer to WW3.

Hawaii2: I based my comments on your "Judaism believes in the Old Testament" remark. The Old Testament is a disgrace to modern values. While I'm sure modern Jews don't follow every stricture of the Torah, your original post suggested it is the basis for their value system.

The average Muslim probably doesn't follow every stricture of the Koran either, but I can't speak to that.

(And what does "Fiddler on the Roof" have to do with anything? Haven't seen it.)

chester12:

Would you please explain the method(s) that Iran would use in their threats to wipe Israel off the face of the earth?

Ummm ... that is why we are discussing Iran's uranium enrichment program. If Iran can accumulate enough highly enriched uranium to build nuclear warheads, it can put those warheads on its longer-range ballistic missiles and strike Israel.

Iran has ballistic missiles that are capable of reaching as far as Eastern Europe. While those missiles have poor guidance systems and are of limited tactical value, they are ideal for strategic strikes with nuclear warheads.

Why don't we give Israel federally owned acreage equal to the area if Israel and simply move the country? Let them have a chunk of Nevada or Eastern Washington. Just move everything in Israel to its new homeland in the US and make Israel the 51st state. Peace would be achieved.

Why was Israel located in the one part of the world where Jews were hated more than Nazi Germany?

The time has come for the terrorist lead nation of Iran to be melted into the sand and forgotten. Their threats against Israel, their threats against the west, their threats to derail the world's economy... We discovered the resources and turned them over to Iran. They have used the wealth they have realized to destabilize the world and to kill their women and rape their babies. America's president has shown complicity by extending to them the luxury of time to bury their WMD plants underground. Never before has a President of our country ever disgraced his post in such an insidious manner, Israel will have to take matters in their own hands and turn Iran's weapons program into something that resembles a Dali painting, and maybe they can take out that piece of crap Ackmidinijad while they're at it.

Hope it goes better than when we invaded Iraq.

AG99: the part of the Bible you're talking about 1.13 is Sodom and Gomorrah and they weren't his sons they were angels. Maybe if you took the time to read more carefully you would learn more.

Good idea JEM, and I get Nevada, but why eastern Washington?

Anyway, we should forcefully demand that Isreal hold-off on destroying Iran's peaceful nuclear weapons development facilities until after November 6, 2012, in order to give the sanctions more time to work.

Most of you have now soundly demonstrated you have no idea what you are taking about. You spout knee jerk opinions that rest on trite reports from people who have a very dark agenda - not facts.

Outside the uninformed US of A, most sentient people who are familiar with the region know that there are two lines, Saudi and Iranian. That's it. Nations fall on one side or the other. Syria, Lebanon, Palestine all fall with Iran. Perhaps Turkey as well. The rest go with Saudi, including Israel. 90% of the vocalized threats towards Israel from Iran are actually meant for Saudi - and everyone knows this is true. If you cannot understand these basics, you cannot have a realistically informed opinion of value to the situation. Direct speech is not, and never has been, an attribute of the Middle East.

Its not about "the Jews" (and some of you have some serious hate issues by the way), it's about the Sunni and the Shi'a and the political and physical struggle for power between these two nations. Israel is a convenient whipping boy for the Shi'a wrath so as not to clearly direct it towards Saudi. This is also why the Assange leaks are such a problem - please remember to send Julian a thank you card for his part in these troubles by leaking direct private conversations - which creates huge problems. However, his leaks clearly demonstrated the reality above.

Headline: U.S., Britain Urge Israel not to Attack Iran

Translation: U.S. and Britain hope to high Hades that Israel strikes Iran.

Read between the lines, folks.

But Hawaii is right, the stupid Iranians will strike first. Then Israel will retaliate with loving aplomb (i.e. - lots and lots of split Plutonium and Uranium 235).

Hostilities against Iran are not about nuclear weapons. The real reason for all the tensions with Iran is that Iran is selling its oil in numerous currencies including gold instead of dollars. If other Arab nations were to do the same thing, the dollar might become worthless.

Libya was attacked because Qaddafi was negotiating to put much of North Africa on the gold dinar standard. If the US were forced to convert dollars into gold in order to buy oil, than the US economy might very well collapse.

Saddam Hussein was negotiating to sell Arab oil in either a basket of currencies or Euros. This was a threat to the US economy so Iraq was attacked.

All these wars are being fought so that we may force the Arabs to accept our soon to be worthless dollars in exchange for their valuable oil.

This is all just for show...NOBODY wants Iran to have nukes. Saudi Arabia and UAE (both Sunni Muslims) have already "asked" US or Israel to bomb Iran, though they prefer it is the USA. Saudi Arabia has already said they will buy or develop nukes if Iran gets nukes.

DO WE REALLY WANT A NUCLEAR ARMS RACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST???

"Isn't it time to stop looking at the victim as a victim? We need to distance ourselves from all the Middle East Israelis. Arab Spring rebels. They are never going to make peace. We will be at this until the cows come home, even the kosher cows."

Yep, that is what Mr. Obama should have done....however, it is too late now.

And, I can hardly wait to hear the spin when THE meeting takes place next month. Throwing Israel under the bus didn't work too well, so now it is time to throw them over the cliff. Wait a minute....that sounds a lot like Mr. Obama's idea with the middle class.

Ido, the problem with that is - do you really think the only Superpower left in the world can stay neutral during a WWIII involving nuclear weapons???

Israel is in constant contact with the US for everything it does, don't let anyone kid you.

Trouble is, any consequence of their actions will be backed by the good old US taxpayer...me....and I am not Jewish or antisemitic, but I do not recall anyone asking my permission to do this.

Call up the British. They created this mess with Iran, Iraq, and Israel in the late 1940's. Since when does a nation shrug the long term consequence of its actions?

@Hawaii2

...the Religion of Peace; they promote their own deaths as martyrs, honor killings, slaughtering their own people, beheading, or cutting off limbs if one takes a misstep. Women are physically abused; they are nothing to their husbands, who may have several or many wives.

If you didn't write "Koran" I would've thought you were talking about the Old Testament. Have you actually read the OT? It basically reads to a "T" what you wrote above.

ckbry: Missed my point entirely, didn't you? Sons, angels, it doesn't matter. The point was that Lot offered up his two virgin daughters to appease the townsfolk. (And btw, it's 1:19, not 1:13.) It's not clear whether Lot knew they were angels or not, but his actions clearly showed the relative valuelessness of women at that time, that he would sacrifice his own daughters for strange men (angels would need no protection).

If I were Israel - there is NO WAY IN HELL that I would allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon. NO WAY.

If they do, there is no doubt in any ones mind that Iran will use it against Israel in some way or another - and thousand of Israelis will die - if not tens-of-thousands (more?), will die.

They have allowed the "West" to try to get them to stop, and it has not happened. Now, if I were them, preemptive strike is the only choice left.

AG - the old testament was an improvement for women over all those surrounding them. Jewish woman not only vote, can hold almost all offices men do, have the same military requirement as men and can serve in combat. Any backseat to men is in serving some posts in the temples.

When you get to the new testament. Be careful with Paul. He was originally a Pharasee (a lawyer)and he goes to great lengths to explain things to the point people often misconstrue what he is saying by taking a verse or two out of the whole.

"Iran is considered a guaranteed partner of Russia. A strike against Iran is an indirect strike against Russia and it's interests." ~ Colonel-General (Ret.) Leonid Ivashov - Russia Today TV, February 1, 2012

"China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third World War.." ~ Major General Zhang Zhaozhong - professor from the Chinese National Defense University (12/01/2011)

Would you please explain the method(s) that Iran would use in their threats to wipe Israel off the face of the earth?

Hint. Iranian airforce is not up to the job. What type of WMD has Iran been developing?

HintHint, Iranian missile capability IS up to the job, and the whole reason we are having this discussion is Iran is trying to produce nuclear bombs.

I don't know what your definition of WMD is, but as far as I am concerned, Nuke sure as hell fits the bill.

I see Rogue Nation Israel is once again ignoring sanity and pushing ahead with their plan to drive up the price of Gas in the USA by causing instability in the Middle East.

Israel needs to stop the war talk and return to sanity.

And thats my Opinion.

AG99: actually there are plenty of women in the Old testiment that werent "just women" and I was saying 1.13 as in your post not the Bible verse, I didn't look the verse up.

@Hawaii2

i did not say they are the similar in terms of belief. i said they are similar in terms of culture.

that is, they have similar folklore and they have worship hymns that share their melodies. furthermore, they have other similar practices with respect to their diet or to grooming their beards and hair. so yeah, culturally, they share a lot in common. or at least a lot more in common than they share with christianity.

and, im sure you've read the dozens of posts above talking about how preposterous the ideas in the old testament are, im still going to rehash it. take a look at the tag on the clothing you are wearing right now. is it some sort of mix? perhaps cotton and polyester? the old testament says you should be killed for it.

so yeah, pay attention to what you read, and dont attempt to misconstrue it.

“I think Ron Paul’s perspective or policy on Iran is probably the most accurate of the current GOP candidates.” ~ Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer

“I would try to use the foreign policy and military experts who say this would be a fallacy and use the people in Israel who are saying these things as well to show that people should stop and think before they start a war.” ~ Ron Paul Feb. 4, 2012

DB Akron: Thanks.

ckbry: Oh (re: 1:13). As for more empowered women, I haven't come across any yet, but I'm only up to Daniel. We'll see what the NT has to offer. From what I understand, it's a completely different outlook. Sure can't be worse than the OT, which disgusts me, although I did like Proverbs.

Did you skip over Esther and Ruth?

These are repetitions of Iraqi dramas by the Saudis, Israel, oil companies and their lobbyists!

Before the Iraqi wars, oil prices were hardly $30 a barrel. During Iraqi dramas, it went up to $145.00

Israel takes the lead and backs off coolly leaving the dirty work to the US and NATO forces.

Saudis get busy in manipulating oil prices and financing their versions of Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques all over the world!

Has Iraq been wiped out of the map?

Now oil prices are coming down and Iran is becoming a major oil supplier competing with Saudi Arabia.

Many nations have been bankrupted in their dramas.

Now the Iran, Syria dramas and warmongering start!

In the same way, Iran is not going to be wiped out!

Was there WMDs found in Iraq?

We should not jump and dance Israel, Saudis and their oil companies direct!

In the new dramas starting oil prices may jump to even $200.00

Sheer manipulations by throwing monies all around!

Also AG99 you have to remember that the Bible says that men are head of the house and the decision makers. Doesn't ever say to treat them less than human though.

AG:

You know not what you speak---keep reading, and make some friends who practice the Jewish Religion. They will set you straight on facts.

You've made so many inaccurate comments, it would takes pages to learn about the Old Testament and how it is interpreted today---

Most Jewish people of this Faith are extreme Far Left Liberals, and Democrats; so what is your beef? They do not believe in any religion. No Jew has to believe in G-d; they are allowed to question if there is one--

Muslims have to believe in Allah; it is mandatory---so goes the Theological Discussion--I'm done. No parallel from Judaism to the Islamic Religion..

ckbry: I don't consider either Esther or Ruth to be at all empowered (Esther merely asked for a favor from the king and Ruth spent her time looking for a husband). There's a difference between empowerment and prominence. And while the Bible may not say anything about treating women like dirt, the men of that time clearly did, at least by today's standards.

Hawaii2: I wasn't talking about the Jews of today, merely giving my opinion on the horrors of the OT. Just because you don't agree with my interpretation doesn't make my point of view invalid. I've drawn my conclusions based on what I've read, not what someone else told me. I have no beef with Jews in particular, no more than the followers of any other religion, nor do I care if they're Republicans or Democrats. What does that matter?

I don't much care how either of you manage to make the OT palatable in your own minds. As an athiest, I take the words at face value. And since none of this has anything to do with the actual topic, and because I'm going to bed now, this will be my last post on it.

Here we go, $10.00 a gallon gas, or maybe even $20.00! Just what we need to go green. It is time we stopped funding this insanity. We need to start growing our own drugs too. We are putting billions in the hands of lunatics.

I don’t support any military action against Iran, but let the debate be balanced by getting rid of the blinkers!

If I remember clearly it was Iran’s president Ahmadinejad who threatened to destroy Israel. Here is just one of many examples of him threatening Israel, “Israel is destined for destruction and will soon disappear.” – November 13, 2006.

Ahmadinejad openly calls for Israel’s destruction at every opportunity. Not so long ago he described Israel as a "fake regime" that "must be wiped off the map."

Can anyone remember Israel threatening Iran with destruction and being “wiped off the map” because I can’t!

Although Israel has not called for the destruction of any nation, it has refused to recognize the rights of Palestinians to statehood. This situation in teh middle east is complicated by many things-religion, oil, allies, nuclear armaments etc. However, if Israel wants to take on Iran because of a VERBAL THREAT, then they should do so on their own. It appears to me that they have developed military capability to protect themselves so I am not certain why the US would need to get involved. It also appears that Iran is not very advanced in their development of nuclear weapons or the abiltiy to deliver those weapons.

We cannot allow other nations to bring us down, even if that nation is Israel. We have our own problems and the reality is that Israel should be making peace with their neighbors. If tehy are unable to do that, then THEY should protect themselves to the best of their abilities. However, preemptive strikes may backfire in the court of world opinion. The US attack on Iraq is a case in point. The US has little to fear from Iraq in terms of an attack. The US could have blown Iraq off the map with the push of a button. Instead, we engaged in a boots on the ground war that cost us terribly and gained us very little.

We and Israel need to come to the conclusion that we cannot control this area of teh world. Granted they have tremendous resources of oil, but we get significant amounts of oil elsewhere. So, on some level we seem to be scapegoating these people in our never ending quest for the bogeyman of the day. This incessant need to have an enemy will bring our downfall.

The other problem with Israel is that when we allow another nation to determine our foreign policy and interests, we are in trouble from the beginning. The reality is that Israel and Netenyahu may have an agenda that is not consistent with ours. They also may have national interests that are unique to them, but whether their national interests merit our involvement is another question.

Someone said it in an earlier post. Great Britain has created most of the mess that exists in teh world to day, teh Middle East strife being a significant part of that. Why are they not taking the lead in this problem. No, tehy are leaving the US, police department for the world, to expend its resources on something that will do nothing for this nation.

Even worse is the fact that we have supported all sorts of regimes and leaders including Hussein, bin Laden, and Mubarek. What is our foreign policy?

Lot offered up his two virgin daughters

Yes, yes, that was disgusting.

As a literary device, it was intended to show people of several thousand years ago just exactly how depraved those townsfolk were. It was never meant as an example of how men should treat their daughters.

Intelligent readers are supposed to work that out once the initial shock of revulsion abates sufficiently to allow resumption of rational thought.

BOMB, BOMB, BOMB..........BOMB, BOMB IRAN! Absolutely, positively. Isreal should do it and do it now, don't wait another day. The USA & Britian are weak and wussy and will never take action against Iran and the Iranians know it. Isreal should definitley strike first and hard and end this crap.

clflan2-1,

Maybe your correct, maybe! But instead of ending this crap, we may just be beginning some more serious crap. I am sure you know just how Russia, Iran's closest mideast ally, would react. Or perhaps China would get real involved because they get a lot of their oil from Iran. The truth is no one knows. However the informed and the brighter minds know any military action, by ANYONE, could lead to very dire consequences for all of the players and even some of the non-players. It is a serious question which we should well think about very dilligently!

May God bless Israel and deliver them from the hand of the enemy.

got NEWS for Everyone .. has Israel ever Listened to ANYONE ??..they do as they please, go where they please and MANAGE WELL..however, i have a bone to pick with them, why did they decide Jesus fate ??..RICH, NASTY, GREEDY people do exist..take a GOOD LOOK at History & Bank Rolls, WHO'S RUNNING the Show..GOD's NOT, that's for HELL SURE......

AG99, perhaps you missed the account where a woman was a judge over Israel by the name of Deborah.

All you rabid anti Jews and pro Iranians, read the details of these Arab and other pograms and tell me why Israel should not prevent the promises of the Iranians to wipe Israel off the map:

This is the problem we have in the debate. We DO have real reason to have Iran not acquire nuclear weapons.

Fortunately, that is quite far off - they do not even have the ability yet to create nuclear power, let alone being able to create a nuclear weapon. And even if they manage a nuclear weapon, it will just be a fission device - we now have thousands of bombs that are thousands of times more powerful than they can even HOPE to achieve. Iran is so completely outclassed as far as nuclear capability is concerned that it's not even a near-term concern.

However, we have real reasons to deal with Iran and bring them back into the fold of nations. The tensions create serious drags on the world economy. But whenever the issue comes up, we have these rabid people posting about how the Iranians are just about to wipe Israel off the face off the earth.

The Iranians do not want to die. No one does. They may have ideological and religious differences with us and/or Israel, but a nation capable of almost producing a nuclear device is not the equivalent of some terrorists sitting in caves.

As the article itself states "Iranians are rational actors." They are going to put their own self-interest ahead of any destruction of anyone.

Unless, of course, we corner them to the point where we are going to destroy them anyway, and in that case they might as well throw everything they have at us.

If you want the Iranians to not destroy you, let them have something that they are afraid to lose. Take away their lives and they will try to take away yours. It's that simple.

Oh, and calling the Iranians human beings is not "being pro-Iranian" nor it is "rabidly anti-Jewish." You people who claim that need to get a grip on reality.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (placed in the timeline order of their inception) are 3 of the 4 Abrahamic religions. They are based upon the old testament. Judaism includes only that old testament and it is called their Torah which includes their social structure set up and laws. Christianity incorporates both the old and new testaments and calls it the Bible, using it to define what the social structure and laws should be with massive fractures, inconsistencies and contradictions due to theological schisms over that past milenium. Islam includes both the old and new testaments and adds on the teachings of Mohammed and it is called the Koran. The fourth branch, the Bahai branch of Islam adds to their "sacred book" the additional teaching of newer "prophets" to their combo of old and new testaments and Mohammed's teaching. All in all, we have 4 religions, 3 of which have the power to destroy others in the name of God because of their numbers which can not get along with each other and which all three have significant schisms within each of them so they each have significant infighting.

Who would have thought the ramblings of an old man, Abraham, while sitting on his poppy rich middleeastern hills, spending way too much time alone there with his sheep when not humping his wife and slaves, could lead to such world disharmony to the point of bring an end to the human race as we know it 3000 years later?

Today, if some mountain man who sat in drug infested land day in and day out with only his sheep to occupy his time and used his "influence" to hump as many women (defined as a female who bleeds, which means they can be as young as 9) as he did began preaching he was the only man who possessed the word of any god, there would be some who followed, most who would call him a cult leader, federal investigations into his drug usage (voluntarily or by just wallowing in the fields of it) and PETA spying on him to record any animal abuse (pysical and/or sexual).

In the USA alone, we have has such "men". FLDS comes to mind most because it has hogged the media highlight recently. Jim Jones is another .... but there are so many others.

Yet mankind's survival is pivoting upon one of them from 3000 yrs ago?

This has nothing to do with religion .... religion is merely being used as a tool to instigate and gain followers into territorial wars. If you pull open that curtain to the side there, you will find it is political greed over money and resources that are behind it all and the fools that are following them are the pawns they use to accomplish their evil. Just like the wizard of oz, they only have the power the fools following them allow them! The problem is the rest of us must pay the price extracted from their evil doings.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ and believe in God through him. Unfortuanately, there are NO Abrahamic religions that are refective of what Jesus Christ came here to teach us. Even Jesus Christ himself had issues with Judaism and its teachings, which is why he taught otherwise and sent his 12 apostles out to build his church. Too bad mankind has perverted and hijacked it for their own selfish means to the point of instead of uniting mankind in God's name for worldwide, it is used violently to destroy God's creations, including man, for mankind's greed.

PS: Catholicism, Christianity sects founded as a schism from it and even Islam are hijackings of the church Jesus Christ and his appointed apostles began to build. Judaism is a complete denial of him and his church.

FYI: Allah is merely the name God is called in the middle eastern languages. Shall we accuse the french of not believing in God because they pray to "Dieu", the french word they use for God?

The word "God" is an english language based word, and had no bearing on the latin or other language-based words used for what english speaking people referto as "God".

JERUSALEM — The U.S. and Britain on Sunday urged Israel not to attack Iran's nuclear program as the White House's national security adviser arrived in the region, reflecting growing international jitters that the Israelis are poised to strike.

Yes, more talk and no action. More sanctions and no action. Worked so well on the North Koreans. Israel will do what it has to do.

Hey Sven, how come you have 1 check and "excuse me" has 61 checks?

It appears that support for Israel is waning. More and more Americans are being educated and now see Israel is a parasite on the American taxpayer and the world, which should be isolated, as one would isolate a plague.

Hope!

You took a bit of a hiatus.

Are you reinvigorated?

Welcome back.

Actually, Hope, the word God derives from German roots. It's really not English at all, other than in the typical mongreloid sense.

Hi Freedman1,

Thank you for the welcome back. I did take time off from the internet ... approximately 5 to 6 months. That was the time between when my husband became sick late last spring, then diagosed with pancreatic cancer early July, and then died in november. I returned after he passed. Thank you for noticing my absence and welcoming me back. It is good to see you again as well, my friend.

The word "God" may have germanic roots, but it is definitely an english word, overused, abused and used as a battering ram by fanatics (both religious and politcal and not necessarily of both persuasions) who attack others with it when they have no other way to attack another person or entity.

English is not the only language in this world, nor it it used in most european countries as the main language. Attacking anyone for worshipping "God" by any other word than "God", {e.i., Allah (arabic), Dieu (french), Dio (italian), Deus (portuguese), Dios (spanish), Gott (german), Бог (russian), Θεός (greek), 上帝 (chinese)} exemplifies the epitome of ignorance and the kind of religious hypocracy Jesus threw the pharassies out of the temple for in the Bible those very epitomes of ignorance love to thump.

Our founding fathers knew very well that to be a free society, education was one of the main key ingredients. They believed that not only did the people need to be able to read, but to be able to think, understand what they read and be thinkers. They knew tyranny was built upon ignorance ... that masses can only be controlled if they were unable to know the truth, facts and their options. That is why education for the masses began in the USA. Until then, only the rich educated their children and it was kept unaffordable for all others. It spread to europe, and then elsewhere there after. They also knew religious tyranny was the most tyranical, hence the freedom of religion/separation of church and state guaranteed within our Bill of Rights. That not only protects every religion from state interference, it also protects the public well being and the laws therefore from religious interference. If someone wants to be a good mormon, catholic, methodist, baptist, etc, do it in your own personal life and leave the rest of us to make our own moral decisions based upon how we individually believe. If something is a "temptation" against the beliefs of their own religion, then it is a personal choice one must make within their religious paradigm, not something that must be thrust upon everyone because a certain religion believes so (at least currently).

It is interesting how "christian religions" of all demoninations want to declare life beginning at conception, yet a few hundred years ago, in the middle ages, a baby boy could not be baptised until he was 30 days old and a girl couldnt be baptised until she was 90 days old because they were NOT considered human yet (just human potential) since they were not recognized as having a soul (a sense of basic human reasoning had to be witnessed) until those ages. It may have had something to do with the high rate of death of newborns back then and the reasoning that only those with a soul would survive back then.

Today, those very churches that attempt to affect how we vote with threats of eternal damnation if their members dont vote a certain way have no clue how close they come to illegal voting activities. They should teach their tenents only at services, etc. Any political agendas using the damnation of hell should be recognized as "outside influences" against voters to coerce voters in how they vote. Voting also should never be done in a religious building of any kind!

Now all should use their God given ability to think and see behind the smoke and mirrors of religion to see what is really going on here. Islam and all of its followers has been made the enemy ... Christianity and Judaism follower been declared the saviors against it. Those who are in Islamic countries have the oil, those not in them want that oil. Those not in them are primarily Christian and Jewish. All this hatred and warring are not about religion, but earthly goods wanted by some who dont have them and want to just take it from some who have it.

Religion has become more of a political tool/weapon that it ever was when our country was founded. Thank God our founders had the intelligence and wisdom to know how it can be used to manipulate and control the masses while reeking havoc in this world. They are probably spinning in their graves with our current world situation and how the USA is acting within it.

I choose to believe in God, not a book or a man founded religious institution. I skip over the "middleman" and he hears me ... and I hear him.

@chester. Take some of your own advice and note that what you said has nothing to do with what I said. I'll let you figure that out, since you seem to think you are so smart.

Well, good for you Hope! You're a strong woman and a survivor. My hope is that your pain lessens somewhat every single day.

I don't feel this is the best place or time to talk about God - but am hopeful that opportunity will present itself soon. At the very least, I think I will submit that the 'God' problem is that the concept is outside of normal human capacity to fully comprehend it. So we make things up as we go, some rejecting anything, some accepting everything, some in between - but none totally in the know. It's a learning process, but not a political process. However, ripeness exists for those with skill in manipulation.

tl;dr

America gets down on knees, licks israel's boots and says pwetty pwease dont start ww3, Israel shrugs noncommittally

Then they can do it without our foreign aid.

People who think Israel will strike Iran are off their rockers. Israel will not strike Iran because they haven't got the guts. The Israelis were soundly whipped by Hezbollah, a group of freedom fighters without half the sophisticated weaponry of the IDF. Without American supplied air power, Israel would be a third rate power, incapable of defeating any country in the ME.

Israeli planes would be shot from the skies as soon as they enter Iran's air space, which is why Israel wants US soldiers to die for Israel, just as they died attacking Iraq. Both wars will be based on lies concocted in Israel and sold using the Zionist media.

Israel is trying to convince Americans, by using the Zionist controlled media, that Israel is a threat to the USA, which is laughable. No more wars for Israel. They are our enemy and the enemy of peace in the ME, not our ally or friend.

"Both wars will be based on lies concocted in Israel and sold using the Zionist media."

References please.....

Thank you.

"They are our enemy and the enemy of peace in the ME, not our ally or friend."\

"They" should be: ALL the Middle East Arab Spring rebels. However, how much more American taxpayer dollars are going to go down the toilet in Egypt and Libya, and then the "new government" will tell the U.S. to take a hike.

Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death in this war based on lies.

Paul Wolfowitz is the acknowelged architect of the Iraq war. He and his cabal of neocons, including Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Richard perle, and David Wurmser had high jobs in the Pentagon and were advisors to the Likud government and Arial Sharon.

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli intelligence overplayed the threat posed by Iraq and reinforced the U.S. and British assessment that Saddam Hussein had large amounts of weapons of mass destruction, a retired Israeli general said Thursday.

The Israeli assessment may have been colored by politics, including a desire to see the Iraqi leader toppled, said Shlomo Brom, who was a senior Israeli military intelligence officer and is now a researcher with Israel's top strategic think tank.

Brom stopped short of accusing Israeli intelligence officials of intentionally misleading Britain and the United States.

His assertions could, however, undermine the reputation of the Israeli intelligence service, one of the most respected in the world.

The Israeli military declined comment, while other experts said Brom was exaggerating.

In an article in Strategic Assessment, a publication of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University, Brom said weapons of mass destruction probably would not be found in significant quantities in Iraq.

He said Israeli intelligence overplayed the potential danger before the war. Brom told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday that "Israeli intelligence was a full partner with the United States and Britain in developing a false picture of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction capability."

He said Israeli intelligence "badly overestimated the Iraqi threat to Israel and reinforced the American and British belief that the weapons existed."

Brom said the Israeli assessment may have been influenced by politics. "Israel has no reason to regret the outcome of the war in Iraq," he wrote, noting Saddam was an implacable enemy.

Brom ended his 25-year military career in 1998. Career officers in Israel traditionally maintain close ties with military colleagues after their retirement.

Yossi Sarid, an opposition member of parliament, demanded an inquiry. "If political factors interfere with intelligence assessments, heaven help us. That is the greatest danger," he told Israel Radio, adding that Israel's credibility could suffer.

"When we present dire information about Iran's arming itself with nuclear weapons, who's going to take us seriously? They can say, 'You exaggerated about Iraq, too,'" Sarid said.

Want more evidence? I have tons. Here is more.

Once the Pentagon's choice to lead the "new" Iraq, Chalabi promised to reopen an old British-built pipeline from Kirkuk in northern Iraq to the Israeli port of Haifa. The plan impressed Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and other conservatives influencing Bush administration policy toward Iraq in the lead-up to last year's war.

The idea also drew enthusiastic response from Israel.

"The pipeline would be a dream," Yosef Paritzky, Israel's minister of infrastructures, said as reported by Salon.com. "We'd have an additional source of supply, and could even export some of the crude through Haifa. But we'd need a treaty with Iraq . . . to build the pipeline."

Once Chalabi assumed a position of influence in the new Iraqi government, Israel would get its treaty, the neoconservatives were assured. The pipeline was by no means the only reason for going to war, but it could well have been one reason.

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/19725/iraq-to-haifa-oil-pipeline-could-spur-economic-rebirth/

israel know how to take care israel/us and uk don't have ball to do it

Yeah and then the planes fly into our buildings because of it. Numbskull!

What is the difference between Isreal in 1948 and Palestine today? Isreal fought for what she said was her homeland then, and the Palestineans are fighting for theirs today. No difference.

Ralph H - the Iraq war took so long because America never learned it's lesson in Vietnam. If you go in, you don't set up shop in the cities and patrol the county by sending patrols. You have to maintain a constant visible presence 24/7. Doing so permited the enemy to regroup, train while we were not around. That is why a surge to recapture was required. If you are going to do a job, do it right the first time.

And Ralph, Israel has a history of having warriors of the fiercest kind. When they lived in the land of Goshen, Egypt never had reason to fear of an attack from the north east.

Ralph H,

You been smoking the heavy stuff again brother.

Israel not only most DEFINITELY has the nuts to strike Iran, they have done it many times before, most recently in 2009, and not one single Israeli plane was shot down in Iranian airspace.

Try some knowledge, and maybe a little research next time, please?

Ralph H is not worth responding to. To TRY to educate a whackjob like Raph is to diss the few lucid, sane minds around in America. And please God, don't let Sanitarium become President. That WILL usher in the Rapture. (He's teh Congressman who intervened in the Terry Schiavo brain-dead controversy when Sanitarium, a fervent and fanatical Catholic idologue, talked his fellow Whatjob Repgs in Congress into trying to force her family and her husband to keep her alive by any means, even tho the woman was brain dead and virtually unable to recover. Those of you who forgot about that case, don't forget that when this fanatic unAmerican and un-Constitutional Senator from Pennsylvania @!$%# all over our Constitution and our laws separateing church and state and lost his bid for re-election the next time around, voters were so disgusted with him. Now those of you who don't recalll that case, listen up. This bastard is now playing onAmericanss' tendency to have the attention span of a hen-turd butterfly. And he hides his Catholic bent.

Israel, Saudi Arabia and oil companies are becoming biggest jokes.

Mind you: this time NATO forces capabilities are very limited. NATO nations can't jump all over as they did during Iraqi wars.

Most NATO nations are bankrupt and some are living on loans from China.

In Afgahanistan, most of the NATO nations are hiding in tents or about to withdraw.

Russia and China would like to bleed and give back what they got.

Better not fall into all the traps and keep away from Syria, Iran and any Muslim nation for some time!

The time when a military strike could eliminate or even cripple Iranian nuclear capability passed without much ballyhoo about 8 years ago, when Dick Cheny was distracted with Iraq. Iranian uclear tragets are dispersed, buried, and hardened.

Only the US has the military capability to take them out now, and it would only wreak havoc in a stategically important corner of the globe. How would you ensure that all the scientists were also killed? After all, they are the ones who have the capability of creating nuclear weapons. Without the scientists, the centrifuges would be worthless, but the reverse is not true. New centrifuges can always be built.

The only way the Iranians will NOT develop nuclear weapons is voluntarily, and that might require that the Iranian people first topple the pseudo-religious supreme depot, Ali Khamenei.

Unfortunately, the best defense against Iranian nuclear weapons is to let the leaders know what the resultant Iranian casualties would be, Vladimir Putin and Hu Jin Tao notwithstanding.

RalphH,

RE: your post #2.2

I see your doing that LSD again Ralph. Everytime you get on that chemical Ralph you hallucinate! For starters, Israel has the guts to strike, just ask the Iraqi government. Second, Israel NOW has the latest fighter aircraft that's available. They have EVERYTHING the U.S. Air Force has. And they are better trained to fly and fight with them. They would absolutely rule the skies over Iran if it comes to that. Third, Hezbollah has NEVER beaten anyone at anything. If they could 'whip' the Israeli military they would have a homeland - Israel. They can't and they can't! Finally, go back behind your camel and smoke some more of that "feel good" drug you were doing before you started to 'dream' on this thread! Be careful, don't get sunburned in the desert!

"The U.S. and Britain on Sunday urged Israel not to attack Iran's nuclear program.."

That is different from the message I have been hearing for months, and especially on the Sunday talk shows yesterday.

scrambolo post 2.12 re post 2.2 and Ralph. FYI; it is not the acid that is causing the problem it is the maker of the acid. Stanley Owsley died a year ago from a tragic car accident; so no more specially gift-wrapped hand made jewelry. Too many dangerous toxins in today's street acid. Children do not use! Poison!

Has the decision been made to not bomb and leave the action up to the Mossad, our CIA, and Britain's MI6? Wasn't Tamir Pardo in Washington last week? He has a cool title as the head of the Mossad. It is " memune." That translates from the Hebrew as "first among equals." In the "spook" business they are still able to "roll the dice" as they are prone to say. Unlike our brave CIA agents they have maintained their license to assassinate.

RalphH,

People who think Israel will strike Iran are off their rockers. Israel will not strike Iran because they haven't got the guts.

I bet that's what Saddam thought back in 1981 and the Syrians back in 2007. After rereading your post you probably feel pretty silly, eh?

sven - Iran is not Iraq, nor is it Syria.

Scrombolo - Yes Israel has air superiority over Hezbollah, thanks to the USA, the country Israel attacked in 1967, when they tried to sink the USS Liberty. The fools failed at that one and were caught in a false flag attack. However, on the ground, man to man, Hezbollah kicked the a$$es of the IDF all the way back to Israel. Israel even had the advantage of tanks and other armor, as well as helicopters.

The IDF was a national disgrace and heads rolled in Israel, because of the way they were humiliated by a ragtag militia. You don't like it, but it is the truth. Without American weapons, the finest in the world, Israel would be reduced to a fourth rate power.

Stop all aid to Israel and lets watch them learn some humility or sink.

RalphH,

There you go dreaming again or is it drug'in again Ralph? Israel will always have American weapons. they will know how to use them and will use them if push comes to shove. In the 1967 war Israel was attacked by Egypt. We all know the outcome of the "6 day war", right Ralph? No? Well that is the name for the war Israel fought in 1967. It took the Israeli Military a whole 6 DAYS to win that war. If Hezbollah was as adept as you claim, they would have taken at least a WHOLE WEEK before they SURRENDERED and not 6 days. Hey Ralph, dream on, dream on, dream on, dream on.......

chester12

And because of NATO we will have to help protect the European Countries. If this goes to a war we will be pulled in as well.

YES! And he sat on his ass while ordering the killing of Osama bin Laden. We all saw the photos from the situation room. So if someone's ass has to on that hot seat in the oval office, why not vote for a real ass like Romney or Santorum?

Israel has a greater chance of being "killed" if they attack Iran. If they leave Iran alone and go about their daily business, they'd be much safer. Iran isn't going to attack Israel without reason, no matter what Ahmadinejad says. That would be suicide. If Israel attacks though, they give Iran every reason to defend itself and retaliate.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Suicide you say Dr. Cat? Isn't Iran one of the biggest supporters of terrorism?

Terrorism is a funny word, ckbry. For example, why is someone who wears a suicide vest a terrorist, but a country that sends hundreds or thousands of cruise missiles into a country with the intent of blowing up people and property, not a terrorist? Aren't both acts terrifying to those whom they are inflicted upon? In other words, would you rather be blown up by a suicide bomber or a cruise missile? What? Neither? Hmmm.

Simple answer, cruise missiles are targeting military targets. Yes sometimes they hit a civilian target but they were not meant to. There is no such equation for suicide bombers, they hit civilians and military just as much if not more.

Being I'm a vet honestly suicide bombers are a lot more scary because there is no type of warning and anyone can be a bomber. When was the last time we launched a missile at someone without it being in a warzone?

Hmmm, Dr. Cat seems to think what didn't work with Hitler, i.e. hand-wringing and pleading for him to be nice will work with Ahmadinejad, wonder if he has heard Einstein's definition of insanity?

J.C., where did I say I was "hand-wringing" or "pleading?" It's just that preemptive strikes aren't the answer, but we sure seem to be getting into the habit of doing them. Would we take it if someone routinely threatened to strike us because of some new weapon we were inventing?

Violence in the vast majority of cases, only creates more violence. If it didn't, wars and conflict would have ended thousands of years ago.

Where did you get that date from?

Jeffrey told him

Israel is in constant contact with the US for everything it does, don't let anyone kid you.

Trouble is, any consequence of their actions will be backed by the good old US taxpayer...me....and I am not Jewish or antisemitic, but I do not recall anyone asking my permission to do this.

Call up the British. They created this mess with Iran, Iraq, and Israel in the late 1940's. Since when does a nation shrug the long term consequence of its actions?

Glen - it was a mess before 1940

Also Glen this is a Republic not a Democracy so you gave your permission based on the elected officials.

>>>Glen - it was a mess before 1940

Not as bad as it was afterward...and Israel was not around prior to 1940.

That still does not excuse the fact that the British left behind a mess by scribbling boundaries and nations on the world map without any regard to the people who were living there.

ckbry...You are one of the few who realize we are a Republic and not a Democracy. Well said! Yes indeed!
Unfortunately many of my elected officials whom I support get outvoted in a very democratic manner. :)

Well lets see, there are no sanctions on Israel, however, there are a boat load against Iran. The world community as inept as it is, does see the threat from Iran. They are the preeminent supporter of terrorism around the world, not Israel.

They're both a threat to world peace. Let's stay out of this one (and all others, actually)...

Wait, so... Iran threatens repeatedly to completely wipe out Israel, but Israel (who makes no such threats of their own) is the belligerent terrorist? How... exactly does that work? Because I'm not seeing your logic.

We need to stand firm with Israel. Iran is the ones that are a threat. Iran has said for many years now that they want to take Israel off the earth. If you have been paying attention to what is really happening in the world you would know this.

Anyone whom stands with Iran beleives it is OK to cause terrorism. It is OK to arrest people without good cause. It is OK to say you are going to wipe out Israel and then make the means to do so.

I say you should stand back and rethink this out. I for one will not and can not just stand by and watch someone knock the H*** out of someone just because they think they can. If you you are threatened and see that person getting ready to attack, will you wait for the attack or take measures to stop them first.

I am thankfull that not all Americans think as you do.

Connielog; keep living in "Fantasyland."I obviously don't have the need to further explain anything else since you seem to have it all figured out.

The US is more of a threat to world peace, than Israel will ever be. Israel has every right to protect her people and land, however they seem fit. I love seeing the Jewish people not lay down, like a lamb to the slaughter. The holocaust will never happen again. Go Israel!!!

Why was Israel located in the one part of the world where Jews were hated more than in Nazi Germany?

Yes, we must stand firm with Israel. Let's give the sanctions a chance to work.

Connielogg:

Oh, baloney!

You are exactly right in your comments.

What specious Bull! Iran is a threat to world peace as is every other Muslim country in the world! It is time to tell Iran to back down or face the consequences!

Your an Idiot, only a fool would throw their best friends under a bus. Israel is the best place in the middle east, by far, we Americans have the same values as they do and we have a partner in them like we do England, Canada and France.

Israel is a major player in all aspect of our life, in medicine, the arts, education, and sports. The Israeli people contribute to our society in many ways.

What has Iran contributed to Society? A bomb and threats to use it against the USA and Israel and Western Society. Teaching their children hatred? You call that a contribution?

We should be thrilled to have a friend and Democracy in the Middle East like Israel. Where Israel is was never Palestinian terrority, never. It belonged to the country of Jordan and before that it was Israel. This is historical fact in the Christian Bible and many moderate Muslims agree on this fact.

Enbrace Israel, because they are fighting the same war as we are! They are rightous and will defend themselves against great odds. They have been attacked a number of times by their neighbors and have always won, always.

To the fools out there who claim that Hezbollah beat Israel! If they did then why aren't they in downtown Tel Aviv now? Your such an fool to make such a stupid claim! Here in the US, the majority of people, maybe 90% love Israel, only the ignorant Skinheads, Palestinian's and other Arabs haters. Probably because they are jealous or just plain anti-sementic or anti-western culture.

Long live Israel. Long live the USA.

onesmartcookie1 wrote:

Long live Israel. Long live the USA.

How about this. Long live everyone. This whole 'us vs. them' thing is getting really old. No one will live long if we continue with that short-sighted way of thinking.

Hey onesmartcookie, we pay Israel dearly to be our friend. Tell us why our friend saw fit to attack the USS Liberty and kill 34 Americans and wound 172. What a friend.

Israel was also behind the attacks on America on 9/11, setting the charges to bring down the WTCs in a controlled demolition Bldg 7 was not even hit, yet fell into it's own footprint in 6.5 seconds. Common sense would tell anybody that Bldg 7 had to have been rigged to fall as it did. Videos showing Bldg 7 and rigged buildings falling side by side, demonstrate they fall exactly in the same manner and at the same rate. If one building was rigged, all 3 were rigged.

Look up 5 dancing Israelis to see who rigged the buildings.

Wow! Do you really believe all that conspiracy bull? I feel really sad for you.

Is Israel the ONLY country that sees the danger in Iran? Is Israel the ONLY country that has a pair of coconuts and willing to do was HAS to be done? What I wimpy president we have!!

Winston Churchill said it best when speaking about Germany prior to World War II "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last". I don't know about you but I do not want to continue appeasing Iran in the hopes that at a later time they might NOT drop a nuclear bomb on us.

You GO Israel and do what you have to do. While you become the NEW protector of the free world Obama will be hiding under his desk with a Philly Cheese Steak sub hoping Michelle doesn't catch him.............

TWICED SCREWED Comment collapsed by the community.

WHATS THE MATTER?????

Nobody wants to hear the truth anymore?????

Nowadays we have become so used to being the world cop that we think nothing of being the first to strike, or protecting our allies when they do the same. But Iran put the kibosh on our plans a couple of weeks ago by putting out a statement justifying the morality of a first strike on Israel to take out its major cities. The implication was that Iran already has nukes and is ready to use them with or without Israeli action. This was so scary that, with the exception of a couple of papers in Israel, the west hasn't even reported it. Nevertheless, the message was clear: Iran has nukes, and you don't attack a country with nukes unless you are crazy. So we've going around assuring Iran that they are not crazy...hoping, anyway, and hoping that Israel is also not crazy.

JC, Where is this statement by Iran?

Google everything for this: "Iran: Genocide a Moral Obligation"

So, Uncle Bob,(not my uncle thankfully) you are pretty good at spouting rederick about violating laws that have been passed, but are you going to be the one to come up with a solution to the problem at hand? I mean we are talking about the survival of Isreal. What do you suggest they do? Sit around on there thumbs and wait for Iran to wipe them off of the planet? I mean after all Iran has made it public knowledge that they plan to wipe them off of the planet. So do they not have the right to protect them selves from a very real threat?

Iran violates international law by threatening a UN-member state with annihilation. Israel has the right under international law to defend itself.

Soooo, does that mean if my neighbor talks about killing me that I have the right to kill him first? I think not. Talk is cheap. There are international laws which deal with these types of violations. Just as there are laws to deal with bad neighbors.

Bottom line is if Iran gets Nukes, there will be a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia HAS ALREADY SAID they will buy or develop nukes if Iran gets it. Then only a matter of time before Egypt, Turkey and others will want it.

There is no civilized world, only countries and people who try to look civilized.

"So, Uncle Bob,(not my uncle thankfully)"

At last we agree on something.My solution would be to follow the advise of the US and Israeli experts.Both groups say Iran hasn't decided to build a bomb.That even if they did,they wouldn't attack Israel unless attacked first.Letting right-wing warmongers in both countries set our policy is the worst solution of all.

kolb=

Iran violates international law by threatening a UN-member state with annihilation. Israel has the right under international law to defend itself.

LOL, you honestly believe Iran started all this war talk? Man, where have you've been.

Look at it this way. If, god forbid, Santorum became president, the US would be a country led by ideologues and religious nuts.

As barbaric and insensitive as this sounds it is the most guaranteed way to ensure Iran does not achieve nuclear status. The problem is not should they have it, its knowing already what their mindset would make them do once they got it. This is not a civilized nation. Their political regime is set to change at least twice in the next ten years, from one terroristic valued group to another more radical terroristic valued group.

Just because the Koran is another form of a bible doesn't mean the world should have to put up with it. There are more followers of the Koran that would rather kill someone or suicide out causing mass damage than any other religion in the world. Sad but true. Hypothetically, If i wrote a book today, called it my version of some bible and in there were directions to assassinate or kill all infidels, would you allow me to practice it and hide from prosecution under the guise of religion? In the end without proof of religion or proof that a God exists, that's effectively exactly what they are doing with this book. I'm not calling for the next crusades, i'm rather against it to be honest. But honestly how else can a rational level minded person consider the larger picture.

As humans it is our natural instinct to survive. This war, or upcoming battle with Iran is a battle that has been brewing for 75 years or more.

The situation is more analogous to the US and Russia at the end of WWII when we considered incinerating Russia in a first strike before they had enough weapons to make trouble. They were godless barbarians, after all, to whom life meant nothing. Thank god the people in the White House didn't believe our own propaganda.

What heresy - The world should not put up with the religion with the world's greatest population. More people have been killed in the name of Christianity than any other religion.

JCDavis

But AIPAC wil make sure that they believe it this time in the White House.

They do run/own it after all.

abbnormal more people have been killed by ALL religions than by famine or disease

multiplied ten fold.

uh, abnormal, I hate to break the bad news to you, but in terms of global population, non-christians outnumber christians. Apparently, the christian god(s) aren't as all-powerful as they claim. Sorry!

You missed the point. The issue was what religion has accounted for more deaths, via warfare. Christians hands down.

Very much like Iran, Israel is also a country full of religious nuts. I say we stay out. Israel has proven they do not want peace. So why should we taint our brand messing with them?

abbnormal, like the old saying goes, "Whoever dies with the most toys wins".

I have enough toys thank you.

Abbnormal's claim may be true about Europe, but not the other 4/5's of Christianity throughout the rest of the world (especially the middle east). The other 4/5's of Christianity have been systematically supplanted and wiped out for nearly 1000 years now by Muslim, Turkish, and/or Communist rule. This shouldn't be a concern for Christian faith, though, since it is part of our faith that the entire world will be against us more and more until the End.

The source of all this trouble is not Iran but Western meddling in other people's countries. That Iran has an extremist government bent on eradicating Israel is only a result of the West forcing the creation of an Israeli immigrant state in the midst of the Arab people who had no tangible say in the matter. Extremism and meddling breeds extremism and war. It would be better if we focused less on destabilizing Middle Eastern governments and more on taking care of our own people.

Look at it this way. If, god forbid, Santorum became president, the US would be a country led by ideologues and religious nuts.

abnormal, you've been listening to old liberal media too long... Santorum is religious not a religious nut.

Meanwhile we have a president who can only pass the buck... and only make a decision when forced to which results in more of a mess.... the guy is proof that the Peter Principle is still true... he was at his best as a community organizer... beyond that he doesn't have a clue! ABO 2012 more than ever, and hopefully before his lack of confidence results in Iran getting the bomb!

Look at it this way. If, god forbid, Santorum became president, the US would be a country led by ideologues and religious nuts.

George may have forgot to "quote" abnormal's abnormal quote. I too think Obama is way out of his league. Santorum would be a few rungs farther up the ability and experience level of the current guy pretending in the WH!

You need a history lesson. Crusades ring a bell?

The crusades was a one-time thing where people for reasons beyond my understanding thought they were defending christianity in the holy land against muslims by the way, and went to war in the middle-east. That's a lot different from modern day fundamental muslims who believe that everyone anywhere in the world that disagree with them should be killed simply becausethey disagree with them. There is just a little bit of ideological difference there.

What do you think the crusades were. A stroll in the park?

Crusades were over a not so little disagreement.

As an interesting historic fact, more christians were slain by the invading crusaders than jews or muslims. The crusades were far less about holy anything and more about looting and pillaging under the banner of false righteousness.

Also, you're confusing extremist views with mainstream views. Mainstream muslims have no interest in "killing all the infidels" or whatever, just as much as mainstream christians don't see the urgent need to burn heretics at the stake or murder abortion doctors.

JCDavis,

I disagree with your analogy of Russia/US cold war. Although we felt Russia was full of barbarian and primitive people, we knew their intentions were not religiously driven. Russia did not have a world wide published book and followers of that book.

The real threat to the safety of humanity in regards to Muslims comes from the interpretation that the Koran commands them to kill anyone who does not agree with their doctrine.

I'm ok with YOUR freedom of religion, even though outside of the US most people do not have freedom of religion. I'm ok with it because your beliefs do not dictate where i will go when i die. Crossing the line is when your freedom of religion tells you to annihilate me because we do not believe the same thing.

I understand that not all countries practice freedom of religion or freedom of speech. This is very unfortunate for the individuals who live in Iran that have no secret desire to be Muslim or practice the Koran in the way most do. Are there good, solid, kind hearted people in Iran? Absolutely. You will find them anywhere. Will those people suffer because of their inability to stand up for what they believe in ? More than likely.

The threat has nothing to do with the country. The threat comes from the dominant religion in that country. Crusades are evil and wrong correct? Many good people died at the end of a sword who should not have died correct? Have we not learned anything? Should we allow the Muslims to go on a crusade now and kill tens of thousands of people just because that's how they interpret their bible (Koran)? Umnokthanks. That is what will inevitably happen once they make nuclear weapons.

To re-iterate, this is based on religion not primal tendencies. One can reason with primal, one can bargain with a primal entity, one can shun or support a primal entity to enlightenment. One CANNOT accomplish the same with a religious warrior who in his/her heart feels this is the correct path.

Time for a new cause of hate, the knights went home a long time ago, but the otherside, has, is and will, continue the fight. Islam has, I am sure, far surpassed the christian's 'in the name of my God killings'.

Islam has continued to carry out senseless killing against non-muslims since the crusades and also between islamic sects for 1400 years over a difference in religious opinion. That is a lot of death and destruction that time and the weapons advancement's has i'm sure increased each years total.

That is however my observation that just like your christian killing statement is based on absolutely no known factual death toll. But I think my guess is more accurate than your age old religious bashing statement of christians have killed more people in the name of God. Quoted over and over again by small minded people. Who think it makes them sound intellectual to repeat age old common verse as if they just thought of it or that we've never heard it before.

Crusades ring a bell? What do you think the crusades were. A stroll in the park?

abnormal.... get a life! The Crusades took place a long time ago. Read your current history... how many buildings have the Christians brought down with airplanes. Or how many airplanes have been destroyed by Christians! Or how many innocents in our lifetimes have been murdered by Christians! How many more Islamic terrorists have sworn to kill Americans of any faith?

Your arguments are weak and suggest you hate Jews!

How many world wars were started by Muslims.How many gas chambers were built by Muslims.In cause your wondering,the answer to both questions is none.

Iran has had nukes for twenty years and hasn't used them. But they will use them if we push them enough. They've already targeted the major population areas in Israel, looking at the demographics to kill as many Jews as possible. They've told the world this so there will be no mistake. It's essentially, back off or Israel will cease to exist. It's Israel's game of mad dog they're playing, and they're playing it as well as Israel ever did.

So, Iran has nukes and all this centrifuge stuff is what? And an attack by Israel is feared because Israel wants what? Do you think Israel has about 100 nukes?

If the Arabs just got used to the nation of Israel and stopped attacking and rocketing, might there be a better prospect for peace there?

JC, 20 years eh? I call your bluff. Provide ANY evidence Iran had nukes in 1992.

DOCUMENTS INDICATE IRAN HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS --ISRAEL LINE THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 1998

According to Iranian government documents in Israel's possession, Iran received several nuclear warheads from a former Soviet republic during the early 1990s, THE JERUSALEM POST reported.

The documents have been deemed authentic by United States congressional experts and are still being studied in Israel.  They contain correspondence between Iranian government officials and leaders of Iran's Revolutionary Guards that discusses Iran's successful efforts to obtain nuclear warheads from former Soviet republics.  The documents appear to bolster reports from 1992 that Iran received enriched uranium and up to four nuclear warheads from Kazakhstan, with help from the Russian underworld.

-----

General Yuri Baluyevsky, Russian Deputy Chief of Staff in 2002: "Iran does have nuclear weapons."

Geeze - we are relying on congressional experts to verify documents are authentic? They can't agree on Obama's birth certificate.

The "docs" on Iran having a nuke or two don't look very reliable. But, If Iran had the bomb, then Isreal wouldn't attack to prevent Iran from getting the bomb. All the news, and counter news, is nothing.

If Iran had nukes, the UN, and countries on both sides are wrong or hiding it. What would be the purpose - especially when the "Docs" are available for all to see?

Some conspiracy both sides are playing on us?

DOCUMENTS INDICATE IRAN HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS --ISRAEL LINE THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 1998

According to Iranian government documents in Israel's possession, Iran received several nuclear warheads from a former Soviet republic during the early 1990s, THE JERUSALEM POST reported.

The documents have been deemed authentic by United States congressional experts and are still being studied in Israel.  They contain correspondence between Iranian government officials and leaders of Iran's Revolutionary Guards that discusses Iran's successful efforts to obtain nuclear warheads from former Soviet republics.  The documents appear to bolster reports from 1992 that Iran received enriched uranium and up to four nuclear warheads from Kazakhstan, with help from the Russian underworld.

-----

General Yuri Baluyevsky, Russian Deputy Chief of Staff in 2002: "Iran does have nuclear weapons."

• !

#15.4 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:57 PM EST

IF THIS IS TRUE, THAN IRAN HAS HAD NUKES FOR MANY YEARS AND HAS NOT USED THEM.

Source? Link to these? Or are you just copy/pasting your propaganda? (Watch)

Russian news reported the existence of documents as made up by JC to be 100% false, adding "JC is not fooling anyone. Who would profit from this? Not the average Newsvine user, we would hope."

Russian News Director, Nizhny Novgorod 2012

Does that mean Israel will attack Iran?

"Acting" president? Don't tell me you're a Birther too...

Ms Toasty, there you go again, putting words in other poster's mouths. I think Richard is just indicating that the president is rarely clear in his objectives.

While I can see your point, I think his implication was pretty clear, Mark.

isreal cant attack ,they will have to fly over iraq.

Yes, Iran will close the Straights of Hormuz. They have set up for this. The West can not economically stand the oil shock. They will move to open the waterway to safe international traffic. That would mean defeating Iran and the bid for Shia power.

Any questions?

Don't think so. Closing the straights would deprive Iran of their oil exports, which is their single most significant source of income.

Yes, but they would be better able to stand the shock to their "economy." Their people are prepared t sacrifice - Remember the Iraq/Iran war?

It's the end game that is difficult. Just as Iraq never believed we would go to war there over suspected WMD( not enough to risk showing they had destroyed them and were vunerable), Iran calculates the same. They just play for time. When they have a nuke - then whtcha gonna do?

Since when is Israel going by the rules?

What rules?

Israel can't attack Iran they have to fly over Iraq?

Now that is downright funny.

What would Iraq do?

Try to shoot down supersonic aircraft with world war II artillery?

As for air power they are lucky if they have three working helicopters and

maybe a piper cub.

How do you propose the blow the nuclear facility to smithereens?

With everything they got

Silly you - that would not leave anything for a second strike would it.

Ever hear of the Neutron enhanced radiation bomb? It penetrates real good and, if desired, makes a site unusable for a very long time. It is what you use if you are seriously bunker busting.

Grinspoon97 - Oh Dr. Strangelove - you just make me quiver.

Grin - Neutron bombs are purposely designed with explosive yields lower than other nuclear weapons. They are designed to kill people, not destroy infrastructure.

Well you asked how they would blow an Iranian nuclear facility to smithereens - that's how. People there don't make war by remote control. It gets kinds personal when you can see the smoke.

An Iranian bomb would change the status quo. Israel's best bet would be to attack and hope the world will finally put an end to it and force a peace there. Is that so much worse than what is now in store there?

They can be used that way. Iran is going for putting the facilities so deep that a nuke would not take them out. So, kill the people down there and contaminate the surface so bad nobody can go back to take out the bodies and get back to work. You can wrap the devices to contaminate as well. It is more acceptable than nuking several cities. Just a super bunker buster.

Bomb all the utilities around the complex within about a five mile range.

Watch via satellite to see which ones they try to build back first, then hit them again.

You cannot operate these facilities without power.

Here is what our Pentagon officials have to say. It kind of goes in the face of all the Zionist war mongers on the forum.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0216/Threats-to-US-Pentagon-officials-drop-three-surprises/Doubts-about-Iran-s-nuclear-ambitions

Doubts about Iran's nuclear ambitions

Despite the hype surrounding Iran’s pursuit of nuclear technology, the country's leaders are “not likely” to develop weapons unless attacked, the panel said.

The same goes for plans to close the vital Strait of Hormuz waterway, according to General Burgess. Though Iran can close the strait (“at least temporarily”), launch missiles, and even tap terrorist surrogates worldwide “if attacked,” military-intelligence officials assess that it is “unlikely to initiate or unintentionally provoke a conflict.”

What’s more, senior intelligence officials expressed some doubt that Iranian officials are actively interested in developing a nuclear weapon.

Said James Clapper, director of national intelligence (DNI): “There are certain things that they have not yet done and have not done for some time.”

On this point, the panel was robustly challenged by some lawmakers. “I’m very convinced that they’re going down the road to developing a nuclear weapon,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) of South Carolina. (typical bought off Republican politician - Israel over America)

Still, the Pentagon officials stuck to their analysis. Though Iran has enough highly enriched uranium to build a weapon “if political leaders chose to do so,” Burgess explained, he said that the prospect of stepped-up sanctions is frightening to Iranian officials. “I don’t think they want a nuclear weapon at any price.”

Of course our f--ing ally Israel might initiate one of it's famous false flag attacks, in order to give the US a reason to attack.) (We must be alert.) I guess Israel is paying off politicians instead of dedicated patriotic officials whose first interest is the USA, not Israel and it's bribes.

any way iran has found a way to control nuclear reaction . they only need 12 pounds for the bomb.

lol. best crazy post in awihle here.

I can't tell if he's being serious or not...

That's an interesting assessment, General Shado...

lord sh_th*le, you're a douche.

No his revolutionary guard uniform.You think every one against homosexuality lives in the states?

Sarcasm at it's best. Excellent post. LOL

Your right lord shado - last time I filled up with gas, strapped to the gas pump was a pound of C-4 ready to go.

what would you do if they locked the doors at every gas station ,when the bombing starts.

ride my bike.

I'd probably end up pissing in my pants or on the side of the building.

yep your right .

well said

And yet we won't drill on our own land to ease any problems that may come about because of a war.
We are so hippo-critical when it comes to such things. We are willing to cut off our nose to spite our face.

We talked about this same problem of shortages in the mid to late 70's while waiting in ling lines to get gas. We learned nothing nor did we try to fix the problem, now 35 years later we are still arguing about the same problem. We just don't learn. And 35 years from now we will still be arguing about the same stupid gas shortages and nothing will have been fixed.

We can drill on our own land but the oil we drill here will be sold on the open market not one ounce will aid America!! please research

not only will drilling distroy our land and water as it already has we wouldnt even make royalities from each barrell. they want to use us like 3rd worlders please wake up... the jobs we get would be temporary the damage permanent. watch the movie gasland the only ease that will come is to the pockets of the oilinaires not American people

you mean like "take out osama"? :)

otherwise, your post makes no sense.

Verguy-I'm so tired of hearing "Obama took out Osama".Obama did nothing except sit on his lazy butt and watch the Navy Seals kill Osama.Even if John McCain was our president,the same thing would have happened-Osama gets killed by the Navy Seals.

Good or bad,success or failure of anything during his tenure,the bulk stop at his table. Even if errors are made without his knowledge,we'll still hold him accountable. So give him the credit for getting Osama out of the way!!

Good or bad,success or failure of anything during his tenure,the bulk stop at his table. Even if errors are made without his knowledge,we'll still hold him accountable. So give him the credit for getting Osama out of the way!!

Maybe more people would if he had been responsible for putting the infrastructure into place that got him. He wasn't. That was all Bush's doing, and people give him nothing but grief for doing it. And look at the mess that Bush had to deal with in regards to that. The whole thing was put into motion by Reagan and completely neglected by everyone since. It wasn't the first attack Bin Laden made on the WTC, either...the first one happened on Clinton's watch. See how well the "hands off" approach works?

The real question is: what would have happened if 9/11 happened during Obama's administration? While it's impossible to say for sure, it's highly doubtful that he would have taken it as far as Bush did.

It is amazing how Pres. Bush invaded Iraq to rid them of weapons of mass destruction, all the while North Korea and Iran were building them. Unfortunately Pres. Obama withdrew our troops from Iraq before we found those weapons.

Clinton was in office 2 weeks when the first attack on the WTC occured. He got the perpetrators without starting a war with a country that had no part in that attack or 9/11. Bin Laden had no part in the first WTC attack. Iraq had no part in the second attack, but the fool named Bush attacked anyway, because the Zionists in the Pentagon sold him a bill of goods.

Zionist warmongers like Ken Adelman and the Zionist Washington Post pushed the war in an editorial titled, “Cakewalk in Iraq.” Jewish supremacists Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz told you that Iraq would “Welcome us as liberators.” Iraq became the longest war in American history. Here is a report from USA Today: “Pentagon officials estimated for the first time Wednesday that up to 360,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans may have suffered traumatic brain injuries.” Now that’s not counting tens of thousands who have suffered maiming, amputations, or death in this war based on lies.

I guess Bush believed the quick war would cement himself as a war president with a great victory in the plus column. Instead, the fool presided over a war which will end up costing over 3 trillion dollars and was one of the longest wars in US history. Thank you Israel and the Zionist neocons.

Don't think it is money the Israelies want - it is weapons.

who do you think makes the patriot missle carrier? -- isreal .

Wrong - patriots missiles are manufactured by the Raytheon Company of the United States. We sell them all over the world.

Shado, you might consider opening up a book or two one of these days. You seem to be considerably more fact-adverse than the average Newsviner.

Israel manufactures them under license.

Just as any country would and does Israel will act on the basis of what´s needed, to protect its citizens, England did it when they brought the war to Germany after the nazis so horribly attacked them with massive bombings,. The U.S did ther same after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.They brought the war to Jap n Israel will do the same with this perverted Islamic terrorist country threatening to destroy it.The U. and England defends its people and Israel will do the same when faced with equal beasts like nazi Germany or imperial Japan. The world must defend Israel After all they too are subject to Iranian terrorism.They´ve already attacked on 6 continents.Hardly a well kept secret..! Less hypocrisy from countries that do and will do the same as Israel does. The Isalmic Revolution of the perverted clerics in Iran must come to an end. and soon! One way or another!!