yeeeeeee haaaaaawwwww

This is just so stupid, what more can I say?

A 50 yr. old living with his mother, and 7 pitbulls......... the possibilities are endless. Tosh.O and 20 minutes couldn't cover them all!

Pit Bulls are the dog of choice for all the little drug dealers running around South Florida....To protect their inventory......It's a Status Symbol for that crowd and usually the more pit bulls you have, the more dope you have in the house.....

They are banned in many developments/communities...Most homeowners insurance policies exclude them in coverage unless a very expensive rider is purchased .....

Pits are incredibly strong and when trained to attack, they will and they will never let up.

Doesn't sound all that safe in the house.

I thought you had to pass some sort of a minimal IQ test in order to own a firearm? and it is so mininal..that if you failed you were automaticallly committed to a mental institution.............

Maybe, just maybe, it's time to MOVE! If you are afraid to live there, GET OUT! Moron! You are the one responsible for creating the environment that led up to this incident. Why don't you move yur mother to a safer location. I don't care if she has lived in that house all your life. It is time to move on.

he and his mother have seven pit bulls in their house;

Okay, SEVEN pit bulls in a house with an 84 yr old lady. Add into the mix the son who owns a gun. A recipe for disaster.

Coming next....the story of a man who died while filling his car with gas and SMOKING at the same time.

sheds light on the real source of the problem: dog owners with very poor judgement.

Exactly, not gun owners.

this man needs to get a safer, more predictable form of "home security"

...I would suggest Burmese pythons

What's wrong with smoking while filling up your car?

I'm not sure I follow his logic. He lives in a compound because of security concerns, has dogs because he feels unsafe, and has a gun to protect himself. He needs protection against the protection?

Maybe he should consider moving.

He only wanted to give his first name - Billy. No, he only wanted to give his first first name - BillyJoeJimBob.

Not true, the pits were not properly socialized. If they had been, there would not have been any infighting.

FYI any breed of dog(s) if in a group setting can become aggressive, it's not just pit bulls. But because pit bulls have such powerful jaws, (bite) and sturdy build, when they do get ahold of another dog, or person, they can do LOTS of damage. And yes, I do agree that ALL DOGS need to be socialized with other dogs as well as people. It's ashame that the mother was shot during this incident.

Actually pits can be kept together wether they were raised this way or not, however the caretaker must know how to handle dogs, which this guy clearly doesnt

Am I the only one who thinks the pit bulls were being raised for dog fighting and the whole thing backfired on them?

An accident waiting to.... no scratch that..... accident happened...

Sorry, but you are way off base. The breed is not the problem; the owner's handling and care of the dogs is the problem. Anyone who works with dogs regularly knows this (as I do at a local ago shelter). The most aggressive dog I've met? A poodle. Most stable? Pit/Mastiff cross. You do not assess a dog by its breed but by its behavior.

These dogs are victims of bad ownership, training and handling.

funny how cesar milan(dog whisperer) can keep any breed he wants in a group setting, even pitbulls which he has a few of, and has none of these problems. the owners are the problem not the dogs.

I wish the mom has a full recovery. I hope they find a good home for the dogs and the gun.

Time and time again pit bulls are at the center of violence. Maybe people should need a special license and training to own them? If they are like all other dogs how come I don't see news stories about beagles fighting or attacking people?

I'm sure there are lots of perfectly nice pit bulls out there, but Reni is right. Combine any aggression with a poweful physique and there will be trouble.

The main problem is probably neutering. The overwhelming majority of dog bites are from intact males. Add that to the pit bull's natural tendencies and there you go.

Because a beagle bite won't kill you?

Also people have a tendency to use pits as guard dogs, meaning they are more likely to be raised and trained aggressively.

They have a natural aggressiveness towards other dogs and animals, but generally speaking they tend to be docile towards humans, which was an important trait when they were mostly fighting dogs. Don't want them turning on handlers. Trying to raise them as guard dogs misappropriates that aggression onto humans.

Jakester:

Here you go, article from the New York Post:

Savage Beagles Terrorize East End

Charlie Brown, watch your back -- a plague of vicious wild beagles has struck Long Island!

These floppy-eared terrors are no lovable Snoopys -- they're abandoned hunting dogs that live in packs and have gone from humble pets to hounds from hell.

Mattituck resident Dot Faszczewski came face to face with the canine menace two weeks ago, when she was set upon by a group of crazed, hungry beagles as she walked her pet dogs near her parents' Orient Point home.

She said it was like a scene from a werewolf movie.

"They were barking so ferociously that I thought they were going to attack my dogs," she said of the Jan. 16 scare.

Her dogs -- who are much bigger than be agles -- were too scared to even bark back.

"I grabbed the two dogs and ran inside," she said. "I just closed the door when they jumped at the door, and they broke that aluminum portion underneath."

The attack happened in a flash. It was only when the 61-year-old dog lover was safely inside that she made the shocking realization her howling attackers weren't coyotes or Rottweilers, but were three frothing, short-legged, brown-and-white beagles.

"I thought 'Why would they be so ferocious?' The bark that they were barking, like they really wanted to eat me up!" she told The Post.

They "were probably cold, hungry and desperate," she said.

The angry beagles that attacked Faszczewski are part of a huge community of feral beagles that roams the woods and fields of eastern Long Island after being abandoned by hunters who used them to track down rabbits.

According to local activists, some hunters act like small-time Donald Trumps, firing the dogs that don't do well during the November-to-February hunting season. One told a shelter worker, "If you don't take the dog, I'll shoot it in the head."

Come on, you found that article in The Onion, right?

That's not true at all. One unbalanced pitbull among 100, will create chaos. It's about the dog being balanced, and having been taught that aggression towards other living things, is not allowed.

"One unbalanced pitbull among 100, will create chaos"

You have to be insane. Pits are untrustworthy breeds with an enormous history of unprovoked aggression. The only people who are 'safe' in their proximity are the owners as fellow Pack Members themselves. Even then not always....

I am a prior Iditarod Race Judge with a lifetime of dog handling skills yet the Pit living next door to me whom I knew very well nearly tore my face off for NO reason whatsoever

They should all be driven into extinction -- clearly the breed is problem #1.

Amanda, What a great article! How bout pugs? got one about a pack of vampire pugs with little capes?????

No, but you have the right to arm stupid with lethal weapons.......

Billy Bob! Florida, AGAIN! LOL

Don't we give police firmarms as well?

Sure you can - just give him a bigger gun!

Or confiscate the gun and cancel his FOID card. What a moron.

This story is more about the dogs than the gun. Seven pit bills in the same house with an 84 year old woman..............Your right J_L, you can't fix stupid. At that IS just plain stupid.

This story is about an ignorant moron who thought breaking up a dog fight with a gun was appropriate. Thank god he lives across the country and not across the street...

Florida, AGAIN! LOL

Yes, I seriously need to consider moving before whatever's in the water down here does serious damage.

I couldnt have said it better myself.

And the old lady was willing to tear into the pack of dogs! I bet she was tough in her day!

Hmmm...84 yr old woman jumps in to separate the dogs according to HIS story. Smells fishy to me. More likely she was bystander caught up and he is spinning story to protect the dogs as best he can. That she got involved through her own choice.

And who is going to do the training; Billy?

NRA?....(would be a good way to augment their revenue?)

The NRA is an organization that consists of people like me ,and Billy, and some probably just lke you, so no I don't think I want Billy teaching me or my family how to use a firearm thank you.

I too, agree that there should be some kind of group class training in gun handling BEFORE you're actually given possession of the fire arm. Could be that a monthly class be held, and a minimal fee ($25) could be charged. The class could be an hour or so long, (or longer if necessary), It could be held in a community center. There are ways to handle such things. We figured out how to send a man to the moon, so why not figure out how to get people trained in how to handle a fire arm.

The NRA is an organization that consists of people like me ,and Billy,

NRA management shot at dogs and hit their mothers?

I have no idea if they did or did not; I don't keep up with the happenings of the NRA management. Even if none of them had ever shot their mother I don't think that would qualify them to instruct the rest of the world on how to handle fire arms nor to I think the NRA management is large enough to instruct the rest of us how to handle a fire arm.

That said if you do not know how to safely and effectively handle a fire arm then you should take responsibility for yourself and seek out some instructions. If that is from the NRA great and if it is from someone else that is great also. I personally would not recommend Billy. But that is just me. You use the freedom you have while you still have it.

It's one thing to own a firearm, be an NRA member, and to have received training in using the firearm- even a monkey can shoot a gun. But it's another thing to be able to use a gun under stressful circumstances and keep a cool head. This was a case of stupid is as stupid does. Owning all those pitbulls just added to the merryment.

NRA management shot at dogs...

That is like saying the "Big Three" is only the CEOs and not the total work force. The NRA is more than just "management". It is the total group.

bc seattle,

"he keeps a loaded gun and seven pit bulls and he's worried about the neighbors...,"

That and he lives in a walled fortress like compound. It really makes you wonder what kind of neighbors this man has. I've heard of rough neighborhoods, but that's ridiculous! I'm just surprised the compound isn't surrounded by a moat full of alligators. But then, maybe it is.

So typical of Pit Bull owners--a decided lack of brains.

bc...LOL....hysterical. nailed it.

unbelievable.

Seriously.....how much "protection" do you need? WOW

lets see, he keeps a loaded gun and seven pitbulls and lives WITH his mother in a gated property, and he's still scared? might be time to find a little safer neighborhood or maybe he's the problem

Paranoid much?

Or how about in the same house as a gun-wielding idiot?

The son is an idiot. That being said, why do people insist that all pits are bad? I don't own a pit but I do own a Rottie. They get the same bad rap....It's not the dog, it's the upbringing. All a bad dog proves is that the owner was irresponsible in training the dog.

Agreed

What needs to be understood...Yes, there is no breed that individual animals (dog,cow,or Human) will not go bad...and yes there is a large amount of blame that should goto the owner of any animal that goes bad, but the point many are pointing out is that there are breeds (and Pits are one) that have a higher propensity for aggression...so an Owner who might never have a problem with a cocker spaniel will have problems with pits

Kate-4114376

Or how about in the same house as a gun-wielding idiot?

you and I are normally at odds on opposite sides of the gun debate but I agree with your comment on this one. (and yes I know you meant anyone with a gun is an idiot but I can overlook it in the narrower focus.)

Pro gun, anti idiots with guns.

So... just how does that work then, Mr. Gunbubba? Do we screen firearm buyers for idiocy first?

Ban handguns.

You can ban handguns till the cows come home. It will never stop an idiot from getting one. Let's not continuously throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Ban cars and trucks. They kill more people, including grandmothers and children. There are more stupid people with road-rage killing others than there are dogs killing people.

Forget weirdness. Idiocy is more like it.

Ever read any Carl Hiaason?

He writes amazing books about the local insanity of Florida.

"From the pocket of her windbreaker he extracted what he falsely believed to be a portable marine radio, which along with two granola bars he'd pilfered from Honey's belongings after she was snatched by the club-handed lunatic. Shreave started pressing buttons on the compact gadget and barking, "Mayday! Mayday!

There was no response from the Coast Guard pilot or any other human, and for a good reason. Except for its LED screen, the instrument in Shreave's possession was electronically dissimilar to a radio in all significant respects. Most crucial was the absence of either an audio receiver or a transmitter.

"SOS! SOS!" he persisted. "Help!" The device was in fact a mobile GPS unit, as technogically impenetrable to Shreave as the Taser gun he'd found beneath Honey's bed." - Carl Hiaasen

He's from Plantation, Florida, by the way.

And ironically, it's these very states that hordes of arrogant, entitled yankees retire to.

2+2=Doink

i think they feel they need to give balance with the illegals and "banana-boaters" that roll in uninvited.

But the character your quote focuses on is not from Florida. That character is a ne'er do well phone salesman from Texas. I've read most of Hiaasen's work; he doesn't spare anyone, no matter their place of origin, from his ascerbic wit ... IMO, he's this century's Mark Twain, with the same penetrating vision of human nature and the same willingness to reveal that nature with his tongue (er ... pen?) firmly in cheek; everyone should read some Hiaasen; okay, back on topic ... seems the dogs may have been the most intelligent critters present at this party...

I live here in Florida, this is the norm! They don't let the really bizarre stories out.

Thanks for the recommendation, culheath. I'll have to get some of his stuff.

Agreed. Florida is like the nation's epicenter of wacky, stupid, and/or foolish people. Who can forget the debacle that was the 2000 Presidential election? Floridians can't even sort out how to vote properly. If you can't handle a simple ballot, you sure as hell aren't going to be able to handle a firearm.

And honestly, how is firing a handgun at one's pets and shooting one's mother instead not met with ANY charges or recriminations whatsoever?? Lord. Only in Florida. Or maybe Texas where you're probably cited if you don't shoot at someone on at least an annual basis.

And yeah, big surprise ol' Billy didn't want to give his last name. If I were stupid enough to be shooting at a pack of dogs that were my pets, and managed to hit my elderly mother instead... coupled with the sad fact that I was living with her... yeah, I don't think I'd be too keen to advertise my full name, either.

Speaking of stupid...

Any dog can become lethal...I'm tired of hearing "restrict" pit bulls...it was doberman pincers when I was young, and now it's pit bulls! I was raised with dobermans, and had 2 at a time until we started collecting "throwaways" (because people get animals and then can't/don't take care of them) the last 4 dogs we had, were a big black lab, a beagle, a yellow lab mix, and a pit bull. The lab and beagle both bit 2 of my kids, just a snap with a growl "get out of my face" bite, the lab mix pinned the neighbor against her car and the pit bull (she's 7 now) is the sweetest of them all, never growls, or snaps. The kids were used to laying on the dobies, to watch t.v. when they were growing up, so they thought they could do the same to the others, they learned they couldn't. But they could/can still lay on the pit to watch t.v. Our kids are all grown now, and the older dogs have passed away, so the pit is our baby, everyone loves her, and she loves everyone. I take her with me whenever I can.

Never had a gun, always had a couple of "mean looking dogs" that's all we needed.

No doubt, some people mistreat their animals and encourage dog fighting, but you can NOT label all pit bulls as the problem!

I absolutely love it when people who know NOTHING about dogs, much less pitbulls, spout off with their idiotic , nonsensical theories. Such garbage!! Not a truthful statement in your whole rant ... especially the one where "They all have the possibility of turning on someone."" Thanks for the laugh to start my day> Glad I'm a dog trainer; but, PLEASE don't come to my class. You might learn something about dogs.

I've been bitten by, several Chihuahuas, 2 pekinese at once, 4 German Shepherds, a Collie, a Cocker Spanial, a Yorkie, a pug,a Malmute, a bloodhound, 8-9 mixed dogs 2 Dobermans and I'm sure a few others. I don't see anyone on the band wagon trying to ban them! Our family has over the years had 11 Rottweilers and no one has ever been bitten, I have friends with a combined total of 13 Pit Bulls and no bites there either. Should cars be outlawed because they kill people? How about banning kitchen knives...lots of people get killed with those! Maybe ban all dags, that could work, or maybe ban TV because it's to influential on young minds. You people are the problem. Instead of fixing the problems, you want to ban or regulate everything. Grow up people, take some responsibility for your actions. Bunch of pussies I swear....

mo, I'm sorry but you're forcing me to ask this: just what is it about you that made all of these dogs bite you, what did/are you do incorrectly?

@Allison, I was wondering that too, I appreciate mo's position on dog bans, but was wondering how getting bitten by so many was helping. LOL! I was bitten once (when I was 3, I was told) by a neighbor's cocker spaniel. I don't remember but I was told.

Funny, when our oldest was about 4 years old, we went to the park and a little tiny dog came running over to him to play, and jumped up on him to say hi, Our son started freaking out, screaming and crying...the people felt horrible, and thought he was "afraid of dogs". I had to explain, he had never seen small dogs before, having 2 dobermans at home, he was hardly "afraid of dogs", just little jumpers!

He's 29 now and doesn't think that's a funny story! LOL, we do!

Jo-An, I do hope he has gotten over the trama of being loved by little "jumper" dogs and is now able to live a normal life without recurring nightmares. LOL!

You obviously don't own or handle many dogs. If you had a clue about dog handling & training you would know that any breed is capable of the behavior you claim Pit Bull's are genetically predisposed to have. Any dog, in the wrong hands, can turn into an aggressive uncontrollable nightmare animal. That same dog, with correct training and handling, can be rehabilitated in sometimes a few hours. It doesn't take long; you just need to know what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

The most aggressive dog I've met in my years working at a local shelter? A Poodle. The most stable? A Pit-Mastiff cross.

Don't judge a dog by its breed; judge a dog by its behavior.

@ Richard,

Yes, thank you for your concern, lol, he was able to live a trauma free life, and has a loving little "jumper" of his own, now!

LOL

I absolutely love it when people who know NOTHING about dogs, much less pitbulls, spout off with their idiotic , nonsensical theories.

What do you mean, they know nothing about dogs and spout off idiotic, nonsensical theories? I'll have you know at least SOME of these people have read up on these subjects in a USA Today while staying at a Holiday Inn Express, so they can safely be considered subject matter experts.

The only dog that's ever bitten me was the next-door neighbor's nasty little chihuahua, when I was a small child. Mean little sucker! All I had to do was go into our yard and that thing would run under fence and attack. I was about four.

To this day, I despise the entire breed. I'm sure there are some lovely, sweet, friendly chihuahuas somewhere, but keep them away from me!

I grew up with beagles and love the breed. Nicest BIG dogs I know are a friend's Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Very laid-back, mellow dogs. They don't understand that they aren't lapdogs though....

Please don' t cross pits with mastiffs, you are risking having a very large and very aggressive dog. Mastiff breeds are all based on large bodies, fierce looking but absolutely loving and devoted. Good mastiff breeders breed out the aggression of the pit breeds for a reason.

This coming from someone who loves and raises Tibetan Mastiffs. And please don't jump on the TM bandwagon. There are already too many bad breeders out there looking for a million dollar dog. This breed is dangerous to those who don't know or understand true guardian breeds but the best friend to those who do.

Pits aren't by themselves bad. But when you put an aggressive breed like pits in a house with an idiot (armed or otherwise) you are begging for someone to get hurt. But pits are far from the most dangerous dog. As others have said, you are most likely to be bitten by a poodle. However, once you are bitten by a pit breed you are much more likely to be seriously hurt.

You really need to get educated about animals, What a moron...

Dogs eventually become what people train them to be.

Wrong! Mother shot by 50 year old son in an effort to save her from dog fight. The "weapon" was/is not capable of any action on its own.

Why was the weapon purchased? To break up dog fights, or to protect one of the wounded family members?

LOL!

What about drugs??

I don't think Tumbleweed would recommend shooting drugs.

Nikolaus20: Just FYI, Golden Retrievers are currently the #1 breed for dog bites, German Shepherds #2, and Chow Chows. Nowhere is the Pitbull named.

Golden Retrievers are the #1 breed for dog bites.? Not surprising. More people have golden retrievers than have pit bulls, so the statistical number of bites is higher because of that. The damage that pit bulls do however, and the consistency with which this occurs, makes them "special", doesn't it. Fewer pit bulls than retrievers, but a higher rate of nastiness and aggressiveness, which they were bred for. Any dog may bite. Few breeds try to rip a kid's face off because the child picked up his chew toy.

If you would read a little more than the media sensationalist headlines, you WOULD see stories about plenty of other breeds attacking, biting, mauling and even killing (even collies) but "Lab mix maims baby" doesn't have the same ring in a headline as "Vicious Pit Bull Uses 300 PSI Jaw Strength to Eat Baby".

Stupid media and stupid people who get all their education from stories like this about a breed of dog should be ashamed.

Thanks JS, Baltimore, for letting me know that I'm "stupid". It adds credence to the facts that you shared with me, facts that can't stand on their own merit apparently, without you adding insult to them to undermine the opinion that I expressed, one shared by many OTHER stupid people. Well done.

Dude, I didn't call you stupid, did I? Can you quote it? I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, PLEASE, that I said "stupid people who get all their facts from stories like this" should be ashamed? Are you admitting you have done ZERO research into something you speak so authoritatively about and that you get ALL your information from crazy headline grabber news stories?

The facts that I'm aware of stand on their own solidly...they are proven time and again every day by the millions of pitties who DON'T do anything wrong.

Note this "pitbull story" we're discussing is really a story where an old lady ended up in the hospital not at the "hands" of her vicious dogs but because of her son shooting her...the dogs fought each other...they apparently, if we believe this story, didn't do anything to the old woman.

JS,Baltimore and MO's - The following article (one of several I've come across) says that PIT BULLS are the most vicious breed. No doubt you will find something to counter this.

http://www.petsdo.com/blog/top-ten-10-most-dangerous-dog-breeds

Apparently, even the experts can't agree. Until such time as they can, my opinion on this matter is as valid as yours. And JS, when you respond to a comment and speak of "stupid people", you darn well ARE addressing the person that you have responded to, however indirectly.

Nikolaus, I could make up a top 10 list of most vicious breeds also. On what basis is the one made in the article you gave a link to? I couldn't find it anywhere. Let's start with the fact that it describes pit bulls as having locking jaws. Is there actually a scientific basis for any such claim because anatomically I don't think that's actually true. Thoughts?

I wanted to add that my cousin was killed by 2 Great Danes. That breed isn't on the list. And I (someone correct me if I'm wrong) don't think they're generally considered a vicious breed. They can certainly be trained to be, as my cousin would have attested to if he were still here today and able to do so. Get what I'm saying?

Some quotes from the CDC and Doctors involved in creating the report used to rank the most dangerous dog breeds...just some food for thought.

http://understand-a-bull.com/BSL/CDCReport/CDCReport.htm

I'd love to change your mind, Nikolaus20 but there are people who will never be convinced and I have to accept that. All I can really ask is that you and others like you THINK...would you accept other sensational media stories, like this one we're discussing, as FACT on other subjects? I personally don't take any news story at face value...I use them as a stepping off point to do more research and form my own opinions. I don't want everyone to love pitbulls, I think if you are afraid of or even dislike them, that's okay and you shouldn't own them...I'm alright with that but I hate the fact that many people (and this isn't specific to you Nikolaus20) who dislike the breed based on nothing other than media reports like this are what fuels things like BSL and the euthanasia rates of these dogs in our country. Its wrong. I don't like lots of things but I don't spuot of uninformed opinions about those things and lend myself to the crowd trying to make it illegal for RESPONSIBLE people to own or do those things I don't like.

I have a pitbull (big surprise). I didn't want him. I've always liked them and volunteered with them in the shelter but I already had several male dogs (all rescues, none of them pits) when this little 12 wk old puppy was dumped in my husband's industrial park. I tried for a solid year to get that dog into a good home (this was after I neutered him, vetted him, trained him, etc.) but I got TERRIBLE applications from people I didn't think were responsible enough to help keep the name of the breed clear by following "rules" with this adorable little guy (no dog parks, etc.) So, a year later, he ended up with me and my family. He is almost five now and one of the best dogs I've ever had. Loyal to a fault but a big mush ball who only wants his ears scratched. He is not a "beast" because I raised him correctly...just like I did with my Lab and my Danes...my biggest Dane is 200 lbs. He could do untold amounts of damage if he wasn't as docile as he is...he wasn't when I got him at 7 y.o. He was mean as hell...but, he was trained and now he's a big lump of mush too. Dogs are what we make them...

Kate, you are, of course, 100% correct. Pit bulls most certainly do NOT have "locking jaws".

As far as Danes go, they are big, they are strong. They have REALLY big teeth (I know, I brush two sets of them weekly!) and if they are not taught manners, they can be menaces. Just like any other dog. You make a fine point...they are considered gentle giants and can be anything but...its so definitely NOT the breed that predicts aggression, its the dog and its handling.

Edited to Add:

Urban Myths regarding Pit Bulls (number one on the list is the "locking jaws" and it is debunked by several prominent veterinary doctors.)

http://understand-a-bull.com/PitbullInformation/Urbanlegends.htm

JSBaltimore, fortunately countries who made the knee-jerk reaction of implementing BSL are now recognizing its ineffectiveness and the tragedy of dogs being euthanized on appearance alone. The Netherlands did away with theirs a couple of years ago, and the UK is probably about to follow suit. Hopefully other countries (and the States) will see how such legislation has worked in other countries for once and not make the same mistakes. In the UK there was recently a documentary that shed some light on what really happens as a result of such misguided legislation.

Good on you for giving your pit bull a loving home!

JSBaltimore, agreed. Danes are beautiful and majestic animals. I blame the owner that chose to use them as weapons.

We are very lucky that a lot of states and counties in the US are FINALLY considering dropping current BSL laws...it has been a long time coming, too many dogs have died and too many responsible owners have been punished (I mean, really, is BSL going to hurt someone like a thug who has unlicensed pitties tied up behind a vacant house kept for breeding & fighting or is it going to hurt someone like me with an innocent dog who lives inside a house with a family and is registered and vetted and altered and all the "right" things...criminals are CRIMINALS, they break laws so how the heck is a law against dog breed ownership going to stop them?????)

Thanks Kate...he's a spoiled little fella but I wouldn't trade him for anything.

JS: "Kate, you are, of course, 100% correct. Pit bulls most certainly do NOT have "locking jaws".

You and the veterinarians can have your opinions, but I would like see you open the jaws of a Pit that has gotten his or her instinct to hold on cooking. Their bite strength is substantially more than the majority of dog breeds.

Having said that, I do not believe it is good to "outlaw" any dog breed. Rather I think that certain breeds (not just pits) need a trained owner. Ignoring or denying the truth about a dog's capabilities is an invitation to disaster. It is the attitude rather than the bite capability that is the issue.

A few years ago a man was charged with owning and breeding "wolf-dogs". He went to court and demanded proof that his dogs had wolf in them. DNA tests were performed and no "veterinarian" or "Geneticist" could review the DNA evidence and pick out wolves, part wolves or dogs reliably, so he won his case and got his dogs back. (who had never cause a problem). I wouldn't have a mixed wolf around the kids unsupervised either.

JS, Baltimore: True Danes are much more likely to drown you in drool than to bite you. However a Dane raised as a guard dog by someone who uses aggression training techniques is about as dangerous a dog as there is. Also there are bad breeders much like what happened to the Saint Bernard breeds back in the 80s and 90s where the gentle nature was bred out and 200 pound vicious St. Bernards were sold to unsuspecting idiots who buy dogs from mills rather than reputable breeders.

To Steve the dog man...I can open my pitbulls "locking jaws" any time I want, can take food from him if need be...no issues. The whole locking jaws thing just makes me laugh.

daryl...Oh, trust me, I know Danes well...have lived my whole life with them but if they aren't trained well, they are just big and sloppy and can even inadvertently hurt someone. BYBs have done so much harm to these wonderful dogs. My harlequin is the epitome of a gentle giant. My merle was abused for his first 7 years, kept in a concrete pen, and had serious health issues and 2 ruptured CCLs when we adopted him...so it is pretty understandable he was a total ass. Fortunately, a couple years of love has taught him to trust and adore humans again...and he can hold down the couch like nobody's business.

For Steve the dog man - in tests done SPECIFICALLY to validate (or invalidate) the "stronger bite" myth about pitties. The average dog (domestic) has about 320 lbs PSI. In a test conducted by Dr. Brady Barr a Pitbull, a Rottweiler and a German Shepherd were tested. The pitbull had the lowest rating of the three. (The highest for the pit was 235 lbs PSI, highest for the GSD was 238 and the highest for the Rottie was 328). Ever think maybe, just maybe, the bite pressure is directly related to the size of the dog's jaws rather than the breed of dog?

http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html

The combination of pit bulls, rottweilers, their close mixes and wolf hybrids:

• 77% of attacks that induce bodily harm
• 73% of attacks to children
• 81% of attack to adults
• 68% of attacks that result in fatalities
• 76% that result in maiming

They should all be shot

So should dummies.

50 and at home with mom and 7 dogs......doubt it.

You might want to check with his sisters and first cousins.

engnenk ~~ To answer your question about death and severe injuries by pit bulls (along with a few other breeds), is that they have powerful jaws, and they are built like a brick house. These are very strudy dogs, so thats why the statistics show more deaths by pit bulls, simply because they can do more damage than the average dog (add rotties, st. bernards and several other breeds to the list).

Statistically, there are many dogs reported to have bitten their owners, the children of the household, neighbors, other dogs etc. Even packs of dogs of various breeds have injured and killed people. It's not just pit's.

@reni - Now tell me that it has nothing to do with the volatile temperament of the breed. Saying that pitbulls don't have a tendency to attack is like saying that Border Collies don't have a tendency to herd or that pointers don't have a tendency to point or that retrievers don't have a tendency to retrieve.

@engnenk,

you are wrong

No, Jo Jo, Engnenk is not wrong. Canines are genetically the same as wolves, coyotes, jackals, etc. The emergence of "domestic" dogs was the result of purpose-breeding dogs for the various individual characteristics desired. Did you actually read what Engnenk said? To deny the breed characteristics of any given breed is to be BLIND.

A good number of the sled dogs that I bred for 30 years were predominantly Greyhound and/or Saluki mixes. Many did NOT have the inclination to pull, but rather I trained them to pull. Their speed was never in question. Occasionally one would stop pulling or instinctively chase game off the trail. Those individuals did NOT get bred.

Pit bulls have the jaw construction to lock on to prey/opponent and not let go. They have been bred for many generations to show the proper aggressivenes when called for.

Then come the idiots: People who are not adequate dog trainers get their hands on multiple pits at once. This consititutes a PACK. Someone is going to be in charge in a dog (wolf) pack. It should be the human, if they value peace and order. Otherwise it will be one of the dogs, usually the dominant female. (oh, you thought males were the head cheese?) If a fight breaks out and a lesser member of the pack tries to intervene (in this case the jelly-spined human) that pack member will get ripped.

If you had a pack of full sized poodles in the house, the same exact thing could happen. Could I train pits to behave themselves? Sure. Watch the "Dog whisperer". Would I have a pack of them in the house with kids running around? Hell no. That is the job of a single Golden Retriever, not a pack of pit bulls. Pits are ALWAYS just perfect until they get the right instinct-trigger, and then the fun starts. Great dogs, but put them with a dimwit owner and it is just a matter of time.

Steve, I agree that ANY DOG could attack! But to say "pit bulls" have a tendency to attack because of the

volatile temperament of the breed.

is BS!

Your claim that

Pit bulls have the jaw construction to lock on to prey/opponent and not let go.

is a myth....

http://www.dogwatch.net/myths/lock_jaw.html

And poodles are always great, until they bite! Any dog could bite anyone! I had dobermans when my children were small, and they were great with the kids. But I wasn't dumb enough to leave my babies alone with the dogs while I took a shower! I taught my children that dogs, are dogs, capable of biting them, and capable of loving them.

And I have been in the midst of some dog fights, and I didn't use a gun to break them up!

I stand by my statement...

Jo-An, there is a difference between "locking" of jaws and having strong jaw muscles and a breed tendency to not let go in a fight.

If you want to know if your dog has these physical characteristics simply run your hand across their forehead. If they have a tall ridge running front to back, this is what the jaw muscles attach to. On my TMs this ridge is very pronounced, we love to call our little girl a Klingon Targ because of this ridge.

Does this ridge mean my sweet little girl is deadly or dangerous? Only if you piss her off and I'm not there to pull her off of you.

What it does mean is that dogs with this ridge have stronger jaw muscles and can clamp down harder, do more damage, and are much harder for humans to pull off once they do bite down.

Watch how these idiots that fight pits train them. They toss a bag at them with a rope tied to it and then pull the pit off the ground with the rope. The pit already has a breed tendency to hold fast once it bites, but this training teaches them to follow that tendency and to never let go.

Call it locking the jaw or refusing to release the results are the same, serious damage and hard to remove once you are in the grasp.

daryl,

I don't doubt the strength of a pit, I oppose people suggesting a breed should be "banned" and the "jaws locking" is a myth, it shouldn't be spread!

Dogs, can do damage, if they attack, no matter the breed!

The reason you hear so many stories about "violent" pitbulls is because the media loves to fuel hysteria. Stories about Labradors or Mutts just don't have the same eye catching headline ability.

I do wanna say that I do NOT dispute the traits particular to pits (or other breeds). I do NOT agree that pitbulls are genetically predisposed to aggression against HUMANS. Its simply not true. They are bred to be kind / obedient to humans even when treated poorly. The dog-on-dog aggression varies in degrees but could always surface in any dog. I firmly believe that all dogs (breeds) have some traits that you have to "manage" and pits are no different. The way I look at it is I don't leave my lab unattended around water because he'll swim til he can't anymore and drown. I never let my beloved rescued coonhound offleash in an unfenced area because any hound will follow its nose. I don't take my pit to a dog park because even if my dog did not START an altercation, if there was a fight, which dog do you think would be confiscated? Every dog owner manages his or her breed's special characteristics to one degree or another, this is no different.

Any animal that is predisposed to aggression toward anything domestic (be it other dogs, people, cows, horses, etc) has no place in a populated area. If you want them on your farm, it is your business. If you want to walk down the street and endanger my dog, child or grandmother, it is my business. Your right to own a particular breed in no way trumps my right to safety.

But my dog has NEVER endangered anyone or anything. That's the deal about RESPONSIBLE ownership. My dog is ALWAYS leashed out of our home, he is always fully under control, he's obedient. I do not take him to places where dogs free roam so that he is set up for failure. You would not even notice me walking down the street because my dog heals at my side and doesn't even seem to notice passers by (canine or human or other animals) unless they actually stop to pet him. So, how is my right to own something that I keep 100% safely contained not my right because you FEEL unsafe due to inaccurate information? Your safety has nothing to do with me because I nor my dog represent any threat but I don't think I should be held responsible for your FEELING of safety. If you are paranoid and ill informed and are afraid of something you don't understand, that is not my problem.

Clearly the "you" in this response is actually a generic "you" but since I've already been accused of calling another poster "stupid" which I did not and would not do, I felt like I better point it out.

It is because we have to govern to the lowest common denominator. Just because YOU are responsible, it does not mean that everyone else is. YOU might not text and drive at the same time. However, since other people do it, it is common to find texting ordinances.

Don't try to blame the victims. Pitbulls and pitbull mixes are responsible for a disproportionate share of maulings and fatalities. Because of irresponsible owners and breeders, these dogs have been declared a menace and are being banned in many locations. If you live in one of these locations, you have a simple choice, buy a different breed of dog or move. There is nothing in the Constitution that gives you the right to own something that could endanger an innocent person. i on the other hand do have the right to walk down the street without being endangered by a dog breed that has been shown to represent a statistically significant of attacking me. While it is true that if some pitbull owners owned Chihuahua's instead, these dogs might attack as well. The difference is in the amount of damage that can be done.

Why do I waste my breath? Or typing time or whatever...

There is NO proof that breed bans work, none. There is no proof that "pit bulls" are statistically more likely to attack humans than any other breed.

The reason so many places with BSL in place are changing their laws (Ohio just did, Miami-Dade is about to, etc) is because BLS does not work. Here's the thing about breed bans...a breed ban prevents someone like me from owning one of these dogs...someone who does everything right (I file all the licenses, I pay the insurance premiums, I keep the dog leashed, my yard has a 6 ft. wood fence with a padlocked gate, my house is signed appropriately, my dog is neutered & fully vetted and I have the paperwork proving it. He's fully obedience trained and has NEVER harmed anyone or anything)...a ban would prevent ME from having this dog but a thug with a dog hidden in his basement who is already NOT doing the things required isn't going to suddenly give up his dog because the law says he has to. And its that guy's dog who is a danger. Because of the guy. Breed bans affect law abiding citizens but do NOTHING to deter the already "criminal element" from having these dogs.

Like I said. You are blaming the victims. Blame the criminals instead. They are the source of the problem.

What victim am I blaming? I am saying that YES, we should take away dogs (all breeds) from criminals but no one has the right to tell me I can't have the dog I have when neither he nor I have ever broken any rule much less a law. Enforce the laws on the books (license laws, confinement laws, vicious dog laws, etc) and you will net more "bad guys" than you will with BSL...

these type of people are why our country is so f*cked up

should read "this type of people are why our country is so f*cked up" or "these types of people are why our country is so f*cked up"...........(you're welcome)

mo aren't you the one who said that you were bitten by several dogs?

don't confuse mo, he's busy promoting education with poor grammar.......

A liberal and frequent use of obscenities, when communicating with strangers, does little to suggest that what you are saying has merit. Dogs in general display better manners.

Not only does mo brag about the dozens of dogs he has been bitten by, he brags of literally hundreds of dogs he has owned and raised. Now, the average dog lives between 9-15 years depending on breed. Let's be nice and say Mo's dogs lived 10 years. This means that during Mo's 60 years (again being nice) he averaged 15 dogs at any given time.

That is unless he ran a puppy mill or for some other reason only kept his dogs for a few months at a time.

So, is Mo lying, trolling or someone who deserved to be bitten because he has no clue how to treat a dog?