Americans are ashamed of the knockers, as if they are an aberration. Ask yourself why this is. Why are we trained to be ashamed of our bodies? What is it you have that half the world's population does not. It is this objectivization that creates the issue in the first place. Other modern societies do not by and large share our hangups. I repeat, ask yourself why we do.

Ask the church... take your choice, most all of them have issues with a woman's breast. On the flip side, why is it a crime for one to expose a breast or take a peek unless it is somehow in the name of the law and it will make us somehow more secure?

There are articles in the news on a near weekly basis about teachers groping students...or worse. Like all that West Coast news last week.

I'll bet the school system with the 'bar lift' rule will be getting a lot of resumes in the mail !

The church?? Did you ever ask why do people of the middle east have such a problem looking at the bottom of a shoe? Why is it an insult to where shoes in a Japanese home? There are customs and morays in every culture.

I trust that everyone read that this was an alternative HS, which means kids that have real problems, either with police, home or administration. Doesn't negate their rights, just calls for a heightened sense of alert.

Hey guys-- I am not ashamed of my body. My girls/daughters are not ashamed of their bodies- however, that being said---

If any man (whether they are in a teaching/authorative position) EVER approached my girls for a "bra search" I would be the one in jail for assault.

The idiots of the school know there was a better way to handle this situation, but, chose cheap thrills instead. You can not tell me otherwise. They were the adults in the room and in this day and age --- Give Me A Break!!!

Exactly,how would you have handled this situation?

The whole concept of adults, particularly men, doing body searches of girls and boys is wrong. The TSA searches are wrong and the school is wrong in doing this. It is an unreasonable search. There is NO probable cause to believe a specific person had any illegal drugs. The article did not say that any drugs were found, because they probably were not found.

First- "alternative school" does not mean it is filled with students who have been in trouble. Many such schools exist to give students alternatives to regular classrooms and regular courses of study. My sister in-law and daughter were able to take Fashion Merchandising classes, my spouse got into computer classes back when PC's first came out and one of our young friends got into college placement classes by utilizing an alternative school. You can't put a "bad student or kid" tag on everyone who uses such an alternative as part of their education.

That said, I find it difficult to believe that any school would not have policies in place to govern such searches and I can't believe it wouldn't include having only females involved in searches on females and males involved with searches on males. Having men in the room with teen girls is not the proper procedure and even cops don't do it that way. If they were so sure about drugs they should have called the police to the scene and avoided this kind of incident.

JIM--

Exactly,how would you have handled this situation?

I would have brought the "named" girls in question to the office-had each contact a parent for their presence and permission and if a parent could not be contacted then a police figure would have been used. Either way--I would not have men in the room or doing the search.

Why -- do you think men doing searches on females is PC?

BethanyB

I agree 100% Amazingly the school DOES have policies on sending offenders to the administrators offices WITH an escort. I want to know how school officials have the police powers to do a search of any sort on a person. I can see searching lockers, school property and perhaps even book bags (safety reasons as an "excuse") even but NOT the students or clothing they are wearing. They might even be able to legally detain the students, since they are in the care of the school, until parents/police arrive.

Now as to men searching WOMEN :) ok I'm a guy but joking aside absolutely NOT unless there is immanent threat of life/limb and a female officer is not available to make the situation safe. If for no other reason to avoid potential lawsuits against the male for doing more than a legitimate search.

trust_verify--

Thanks! And ABSOLUTELY! If the person about to be searched is under age say 18--who the F&%K do they think they are?! Is my response! This is a child...and if there is going to be a search of the 'person' there had better be only same sex in the room and one of them better be a parent/legal guardian or a badge holding cop!!!!

The other side of the coin here is that what are they always looking for? Drugs. Yet another example of the myriad reasons that a society like ours, half a step away from Greece, has no business regulating the activities of it's citizens. The illegality of drugs puts them into the hands of kids and in ample supply. There are no regulations. Folks you'd better wake up. I do believe you should not be ashamed by your body. I also believe that privacy is an inalienable right, and that neither some IQ challenged school administrator nor profoundly mentally disabled lawmaker is higher born than any of us.

Had it been my daughter, I'd be in jail and some "educator" would be in traction.

Yeah then if your dughter had bought some pills at school, taken them and died then you would be suing the schools.

So does the admin get subjected to a body search also? Because a few MIGHT be bringing drugs into school, the whole school gets searched?

How about this, if a teacher gets pulled over for suspected drunk driving, all teachers need to be given breathalyzer and field sobriety tests. If one drinks they must all drink.

When did it become the duty of the school system to perform police activity (drug searches)? It is one thing to provide a safe and secure environment for learning but what lessons were being taught by these body searches for drugs?

Folks...this was not just "High School" this was an "alternative" High School....built, staffed and maintained because the students that attend there have seriously messed up in some anti-social way and cannot be trusted in the mainstream.

BFD that this girl and others were suspicious and had to raise their bra to see if any pills fell out....BFD if she was embarrassed in any way. Her behavior placed her in a population that cannot be trusted. She would do much better if she would not sue the people supporting her in education. She would do very well to never walk into that school with contraband. She would do very well not to befriend her peers rather study, work hard and make something of her life.

They are being taught that their rights mean nothing when the school administration or the govt decide they have no rights because they are minors. Teachers, administrators and school cops need to KEEP THEIR FILTHY HANDS OFF OUR BODIES!

And if I had a child in this school, I would remove them fromthat school district in favor of home schooling.

bethcat....it is Alternative School....these students have been removed from the mainstream population because they could not function in a normal environment. Students are usually transferred to alternative schools because they habitually break rules...usually rules that involve safety issues for other students.,..like dealing drugs...bringing weapons to school...etc.

If the are sitting in an alternative school their parents have agreed to the solution...the alternative would be for their parents to home school obviously the parents choose not to home school...or place them in a private school.

txmom32 - And the fact that there were men present during the search isn't a problem for you? Is this another example of Conservative Family Values?

If these were dangerous prescription pills then I think the school has to search.

I would just prefer that only female employees would be present during the search.

.

txmom32-So in your eyes because this is a so-called 'Alternative School' it is appropriate to treat these students as if they were prisoners in a regular jail environment? In the article it does not state that the particular girl in question was found with drugs. So in your eyes the 'minimal' strip search was properly conducted in front of two men? I would sincerely wish that you would be confronted with the same situation some night on the side of I-10. I happen to be aware that is exactly what the police there are allowed to do. I lived in Houston for some time and there were many instances of the same kind of treatment there by the police and it was reported regularly in the Houston Chronicle.

So because it was an Alternative School, they have to forgo their rights? I don't care what the girls have done in the past, it gives school administrators no rights to perform this type of search without parents present. This was an invasive search any way you cut it.

You can't search a person unless you have reason to believe they are guilty. To search all of the students in a class is simply wrong. It is unreasonable search.

txmom So simply being in a school for those at risk of not completing school means you forgo your rights? Perhaps the next time you go through TSA a couple of the security types will ask you to lift your bra while their male counterparts keep an eye on you, and not in private but right there in line.

txmom32--I am not so surprised by your assinine comments. Obviously, you are a TEXAS mom and from the tone of your comments - very judgmental.

Damn--if wishes could come true-I would wish you and your female family to fall under the same type of suspicion in your home state. Seems that TEXAS is the kind of state that liberties are only "viscious insults" instead of humane rights.

TXMom: Back when I went to school, Alternative Schools were NOT all about problem kids, but rather allowed parents to have a choice to send their kids to a specialty school: ie performing arts, science and mathematics.

By your insinuation that because these kids had a problem in the past that they are unworthy of respect now and that it's okay to violate their 4th Amendment rights. Texas...we should give it back to the Mexicans.

@ txmom32- First- "alternative school" does not mean it is filled with students who have been in trouble. Many such schools exist to give students alternatives to regular classrooms and regular courses of study. My sister in-law and daughter were able to take Fashion Merchandising classes, my spouse got into computer classes back when PC's first came out and one of our young friends got into college placement classes by utilizing an alternative school. You can't put a "bad student or kid" tag on everyone who uses such an alternative as part of their education.

They didn't touch the kid...she raised her own shirt, no breast showed. It didn't actually say if they found drugs or not.

Jim-3833371

You're a good little nazi.

txmom32 - I think we are beginning to understand your position. A person's level of education and alma mater determine the number and types of rights one is entitled to.

Alternative schools are the equivalent of prisons. High school graduates have more rights than non-graduates.

If I remember the article from when this originally happened, no drugs were found. Further support of this is the fact that msnbc is so biased in their reporting that they would definitely had made such a statement if it were true.

Gosh the Thinker...Bethany B might just accuse you of being judgemental. You are way off on your estimation though. My statement is not elitist rther practical. The article made the statement that someone reported that drugs were being distributed. The population of the school is an at risk community...

http://www.bcswan.net/education/components/scrapbook/default.php?sectiondetailid=15644&

I'm not sure why they would include pregnant teens in a population of troubled youth but they do. If you have a population of troubled kids and the suspicion is drugs wouldn't you naturally go to those students who had drug offenses. If things went missing you would probably go to the kids who had sticky fingers first.

Now suppose that one of these kids brought drugs into the school...was mad at a pregnant kid and just happend to slip something in her milk...causing damage to her baby....who would be screaming about searchess where no one was touched and no flesh was seen. Peple would be screaming that the school did not protect the student.

From amother article the student was found to have perkoset powder and drug paraphanalia in her posessiion.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/student-bra-search-case-nc-supreme-court-15574292

She seems to be just another scammer trying to make the law cover her crime.

From that abcnews article you posted:

"Although she said in her brief that students at an alternative school have a lower privacy right than those at other schools, Powell told the justices that wasn't the case. Under questioning by Justice Mark Martin, she said students at alternative schools have the same rights as those at traditional schools.
Kapur argued that two men should not have watched the search because it that violates the Brunswick County school board policies. "We don't know what happened in that room," she said. "We don't know if the two men saw her breasts or positioned themselves to see her breasts."

Yellow Joiurnalism... Also in the article

During the search, a white powder identified as Percocet and drug paraphernalia were found on the student. The student asked a trial judge to prevent the evidence from being used, but the judge refused. She pleaded guilty in March 2009 to two drug-related misdemeanors.

So basically, the school was given information and had reasonable suspicion to search students. According to the article this youg woman did indeed have drugs and paraphanalia in her posession. Which would make the search reasonable. There do not appear to be other young women in the suit only the one who was caught.

The Question your argument brings up then would be ...What are the rights of students in traditional school?

As for the two men in the room...the third person who was a woman was probably there to assure that all was above board and that modesty was observed. The Principal of the achool could confirm that and take the "probably" out of my statement.

Of course the juviniles lawyer will argue that she was humiliated and that the men in the room were not to be trusted because they produce testosterone but her argument does not make it true.

Why do people get so rightous in defending a drug dealer/mule when the intent is to promate drug use in children?

I can understand an argument based on a consenting adult choosing to consume ilicite or unauthorized perscription drugs but why advocate for kids to use these substences? Why advocate for kids to deal these substances?

Read more here: http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2012/02/13/1946589/student-bra-search-case-goes-to.html#storylink=cpy

I'm not advocating any child take drugs or distribute them. My point was that kids at alternative schools have the same privacy rights as those in traditional schools.

My concern is that this involved a female minor and two men who are not police officers. I don't know all the rules regarding student rights, but it should have only been a female adult present, and possibly a parent as well, or even a female police officer. What if the girl was innocent? She would feel completely violated for no reason (well, I know I would feel that way, especially at that age). I just find the whole incident completely inappropriate. She should be punished for doing wrong, but the way it was handled is pretty disgusting.

Unfortunately this is a community of minors who have for one reason or another come together in a school designed to take them out of the mainstream. There are certainly rules and responsibilities in place for these students intended to protect the other minors in the community. As a school it is or should be understood as a drug free community. As a specialized community I would believe that the parents at the very least had to agreee to a suspention of certain rights upon enrollment.

As for two men and a woman present...First of all only one person Woman) present in the room could easily lead to he said/she said issues if drugs are found in a search. Second we do not know who the men were....One or both could have easily been a District Police officer assigned to the school. The other could have easily been a pollice officer from the city or county. That information is not provided,

But the girl was not innocent...she wished to have the evidence found during the search excluded from the proceedings with the court. There is no mention of any other student that was searched that day joining in the suit and it was clearly mentioned that she was not singled out for search. The search was performed in a room not in view of other students. I would think that any student that asked for a parent to be present would have been accommodated. Again it is not information available in the article.

It doesn't seem by the issues that her attorney presented that she really felt violated rather she wants the evidence found to go away and the serch to be found unconstitutional so that she could appeal her drug conviction and clean up her record.

This action is not about an innocent person who was wrongly convicted it is about a guilty person trying to game the system...like all other aspects about our laws the guilty really screw up what is available for those who will come along who are truly innocent.

Did you read the article? They didn't make the students pull open their blouses, only untuck their shirts. There's a reason schools are run like mini-penitentiaries. Do you realize how much youth crime has increased over the last 30 years?

Informed02 - Your statement is factually wrong, We are safer now than we have ever been all the way back to the 1950's

Do you realize how much youth crime has increased over the last 30 years?

Keith???? Care to cite your site on how we are SAFER? You mean because we have resource officers in many schools today? Kids can no longer bring a gun to school for show and tell but instead bring fully loaded guns in their backpacks and settle school yard disputes with bullets instead of head butts? The fact that not only are MORE drugs available but deadlier more addictive ones as well? Yep I feel safer in schools today... because I am no longer IN school.

trust_verify You can google statistics as easily as I can. You are wrong, American children are safer today than they were when I was a kid in the fifties.

As for the resource officers, I don't know, I have never lived in a ghetto and the schools in the five towns closest to me have no such thing. My grandchildren in California don't have metal detectors or police officers either.

So, would you be okay if they did this where you work? If all employer started doing this? Drug use isn't limited to kids, neither is liability.

Lets treat everyone like criminals...

Actually, almost every job I've had required a urine test before hiring was finalized. But that would be more expensive for schools that keep having their funding cut.

Diva, that's not the point. Students should not feel like they are criminals because "someone" alleged this activity was happening. Apparently girls don't rate very hihgly in your book.

And I doubt very seriously if you wouldn't be offended by it.

What was their reason? Someone said someone in that class had pills? That is a little bit too general. Search the person(s) suspected not everyone. That is what the 4th amendment is all about!

Public Notice: Children do NOT have rights.

BUT schools should not be acting as police.

Totally agree with you Jim. Most of these kids need to have some structure and rules in their lives because the parents are not setting a good example. There's a reason why schools have police stationed there and metal detectors. 30+ years ago where were these problems? It was before my time (I'm 30) but a quick look at the records show that youth crime was much less frequent.

Informed02: I went to public junior high school in a fairly small city in Indiana in the 1950s. It was the time of pegged jeans, DAs (think Travolta's hair in Grease), and switchblades. Gangs--both male and female--congregated at the nearby park at lunchtime and after school. The main difference between then and now is school consolidation. The more kids in a school, the larger the critical mass of troublemakers and the harder it is for teachers to maintain discipline. Of course, in those days the principal could wield the paddle, but in some social groups there was a certain status that went with that punishment.

And lest you think that our school was somehow uncharacteristic, we have a letter handed down in the family dated 1803, that talks about the boys at Middlebury boys boarding school (now Middlebury College) rioting and throwing their benches through the windows. The main difference between then and now is increased population.

The school was out-of-bounds having any males present in a situation where girls were asked to lift their blouses--and they know it.

Jim I do hope you and your anger and your hate do not work in education. It would probably be better if you weren't allowed within 500 yards of anyone under the age of 21.

Perks -

to disrespect the law

Agree. A very similar case went before the court a few years ago. I'm not sure why the NC courts are entertaining this.

Amen! If it was my kids, I'd expect a phone call informing me of the search and expect to be present. Here's hoping that someone will put pressure on the state legislatures to pass a law stating that a parent must be present during a search. Stories like this just go to show that you need to spell things out for some people - in BIG letters!

Thank You....people are posting like this is at the neighborhood High School.

Actually the school is part of the local district. It is for those who are at risk for any number of reasons including lack of math or reading skills, not simply because they have been booted from school for discipline issues. Brunswick County Schools All you need do is a simple internet search.

The school infractions list does not even spell out drugs directly, unless it is under other dangers objects, and calls for the student to be escorted to see an administrator. The school violated its own process by doing an invasive search and creating a major disruption.

To some extent the type of students present in alternative school depends on the school district. Where I live children are often sent to alternative school for passing notes, failing to turn in homework, or talking in class. All students from K5 through high school attend the same alternative school and are housed in the same classroom. From this article it is impossible to know the ages and infractions of these girls. Alternative school is not a punishment for CRIMES.

Thank you--trust_verify--

The school violated its own process by doing an invasive search and creating a major disruption.

But txmom32 had to spew her little "but they are different/bad people" "no laws or liberties for them" comments as if the school had the authority to search. Which by the way it was determined by the supreme courts THEY DID NOT!!!

Kids with disabilities can sometimes be sent to alternative schools as well.

I wondered the same thing -- these men only searched the girls?

Hope it was worth the cheap thrill -- and they get sued for everything they ever hope to have.

If my kid did something bad enough to have to go to an 'alternative' school, and they needed to check the kids without removing clothing or touching them, I'd say go for it- do it every day if you'd like. If they caused problems, they'd be getting punishment at home.

inmissouri

So if your daughter misbehaved you wouldn't have a problem with the punishment being just short of exposing herself to a roomful of men?

Just what would your daughter have to do in order to deserve that punishment? How long would the punishment be in effect -- until she was 21?

And would you get off on thinking about making her do that?

There was no excuse for men to be in that room. Do you understand that? Any REAL man who was a REAL father to one of these girls would be kicking a$$ and taking names.

This wasn't a punishment, this was a check for drugs (which were found). This wasn't exposing herself, this was moving clothing so anything hidden could fall out. This wasn't a roomful of men, it was three adults, two men and one woman. It probably would have been better for the school to have only women there, but perhaps they did not have enough women available at the time and wanted to check before the drugs could be hidden or disposed of. If my child had already gotten into trouble, and refused to participate in a non-invasive drug check, they'd be in trouble. If they were found with drugs, they'd probably lose all privilages until they turned 18. As to being a 'REAL father', I wouldn't know. I'm a mother.

I wouldn't know. I'm a mother.

I'm sorry to hear that.

inmissouri

In that same article

Justice Paul Newby asked if the issue of exposure was contested on appeal. It was not, Kapur said.

But in the end, she said: "Who was looking ... whether anyone saw any private parts ... is irrelevant to Fourth Amendment rights" against unreasonable searches.

So if that student had not admitted guilt, not sure they can appeal due to the plea, and had appealed they would have had grounds to stand on under the 4th.

I would love for you to show me a "normal" public school. In the last couple of months we have had four middle school students form our "normal" public school suspended for one year for drug possession/sales. Normal my a$$. If they are going to promote this in alternative schools they need to make it universal and do it in all schools or, better yet, do it only when there is reasonable suspicion or probable cause. Oh, and follow the proper protocol for search and seizure.

luke-Socal

So if two of your neighbors get busted for drugs the police should invade your home to search for drugs?