Reality has finally set in for the Greek government, socialism doesn't work. Of course, the immature liberals are going to whine and throw a tantrum like a child after its candy is taken away. Too bad, Europe is sick of their crap and taxpayers can no longer afford to pamper lazy government "workers".

If you think it is bad in Greece...just wait until the Democratic base starts to realize that the free ride promised, is going to come to end here, we'll be heading to Greece for some piece and quiet

The lesson here is it's better to be wise and tell the citizens that everything they want cannot be afforded, than it is to give it to them and then try and take it away later when it can't be paid for. Once the government gives people "entitlements", they actually think they are entitled to them and the government has not right to take them away.

DC, are you watching what's going in Greece?

DC, are you watching what's going in Greece?

Are you kidding? Obama and the Progressives are not only watching it but are actively and purposefully promoting policies that insure it happens here. They want to create an environment that gives them an excuse to expand their dictatorial powers.

@hs321

What you fail to realize, this has been the Liberal Agenda all along...this is literally a necessary step in the total subjugation of the human population...is starts will dependency then with holding...every drug dealer knows this

Blame it on the people, not the style of government. Look at the scandinavian countries. They're largely socialistic and doing just fine.

Who knows, maybe are government is backing the protester's with acorn advisers and money..

Iceland went bankrupt and they seem to be doing just fine...The Greeks want out of the EU and go back to the Drachma....

socialism doesn't work

Rofl. The closest member states of the EU to socialism are the Scandinavian states of Norway and Sweden, and they have the most consistent economies in the world.

The only thing this shows is that people have a piss-poor understanding of what the crisis truly entails.

Big deal, Norway's socialism is paid for with oil revenue. So is Saudi Arabia, should we look to emulate their style of government as well?

As far as Sweden goes, I'd say its more neo-liberal than socialist as it is highly corporatized.

Rioting comes in all forms. It seems humanity displays its nature no matter how "civilized" the enviroment is when we are hungry and tired.

Germany has highly regulated capitalism, not socialism.

@Alan Pugh

Talk about strawman. Look whose bringing up Scandanavia and Germany when the topic is the massive failure in Greece due to the fact that 40% of its economy is based on the public sector. Privatization generates wealth, government doesn't.

Right, like it's never happened here before. We have decades of failure and violence to build upon, either way we go. The liberal thought to help and support all citizens is a good one, but in practicality always seems to get out of hand. What started in the U.S. for truly desperately poor has turned into a massive giveaway for those lazy enough to sit on their behinds and get their checks, while the rest of us work our tails off, support ourselves, and then are lewdly taxed to the hilt to give to the layabouts. We've had enough of this stuff. Pile on government handouts to illegal (!) immigrants and/or others non-Americans, and our blood begins to boil... that's our money, people! Nip it now of nip a much bigger one later, changes have to be made.

DunkinH,

Reality has finally set in for the Greek government, socialism doesn't work. Of course, the immature liberals are going to whine and throw a tantrum like a child after its candy is taken away.

Exactly what I was thinking when I read the story. Immaturity. That's what the Leftist movements want. That's what our public school systems want. Create a bunch of spoiled brats with an entitlement mentality with no real education, skills, or motivation other than wanting the latest video game or download from Lady Gaga. What do horrible parents do when their spoiled brat starts having a tantrum? Buy them something. These same spoiled brats then enter the work force wanting things handed to them and when they find that it actually takes ability and work to get what they want they start crying about how it's all about greed and capitalism. The Founders are rolling over in their graves that we are producing such panty waste!

The Marxists / Socialists (Alan Pugh) are really getting defensive watching one of their darling utopia's going down the tubes and fast. They really don't care about the destruction of lives only their push towards a complete Marxist State.

I feel sad for the Greeks because they have been lied to by the Utopia dreamers. Now look at those dreams. I can only see black smoke from here!

I foresee carnage like Greece on US soil November 6th 2012...

Capitalism = forced poverty? Thats a good one.

Everybody take notes, there will be a quiz later. This is where the US and the rest of Europe is headed if we don't collectively get a grip on our spending. Governments around the world that have followed the Keynesian Economic Model have spent like drunk sailors in a whorehouse for the past 50 years and now the piper has to be paid. The problem with the Keynesian Model is that there is no provision to ever require governments to pay back what the borrowed. That is why the US has a $16 Trillion debt that keeps on rising.

Along with it, we have raised several generations of people that believe Corn grows in a Green Giant Can. How many people do you know that can grow even a simple food stuff, fix their own car, or even do the most remedial of home repairs? We have raised people to be to be dependent on the government stipend and trained them to believe they cannot exist and thrive without it. What happens when that stipend goes away? Will they just sit on the curb and cry or will they turn into a rioting, screaming, Athens style mob complete with torches, pitch forks, Molotov Cocktails, and .45 Colts pistols. Personally, my money is 3 to 1 on the Mob.

Alan Pugh

The free market is dying a slow and painful death and I for one am excited to watch greed and forced poverty come to an end.

Anyone so foolish as to advocate the Athens style of violence to bring about the change you want has never witnessed what it truly looks like, up close and personal. I served with the 3rd Marines in Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces of Vietnam starting with the '68 Tet. I've looked the 2nd horseman in the eyes before and hope I don't live long enough to have to do it again. It is a dirty, ugly thing with no winners; just plenty of losers. Be careful what you wish for, young man, you might just get it.

The Occupy movement has nothing to do with the Occupy movement anymore.

Everyone take a picture and put a copy on your refrigerator so every morning you can be reminded where the United States will be within 10 years.

So let me see if I get this straight: A country consistently spending more than they have giving more and more "free stuff" to those who are not producing and promising more and more "free stuff". Don't worry the "rich" will pay for it. But somehow a country continues to spend more than the "rich" can even afford to pay for so now the #$%@# is hitting the fan. Oh, by the way, I was talking about Greece but the United States is not too far behind. Margaret Thatcher said it best when she said "Socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money". Wake up America - we are less than a decade away from these riots here in OUR country if we don't get a hold of our spending........

Boring, and very boring, same old arguement.

Without all this jingoistic BS to make everyone's soap box point, it is really a matter of that the Greek politicians haven't really done a good enough job explaining to the public why they are accepting the terms they are.

Remember, if you want to take the nonsense extreme Capitalism arguement, it is totally fair for Greece to default. If they'll never be able to borrow anyway, who gives a damn if they don't pay it back? Its what Iceland did and Iceland is doing just fine now.

If you want to take the extreme Communist point of view (note I didn't say socialist) you can note the success of Russia and Cuba, and look forward to a promise of retirement eating beans from a can.

Its really German banks being all up in arms about not being paid back. But here's a hint: IF YOU LEND GOOD MONEY TO BAD BORROWERS, IT ISN'T ENTIRELY THE BORROWERS' FAULT! Arguing who is at fault is so, so dumb, because really, its like saying two dead people shot each other and you want to bitch and moan about who shot first.

Banks won't but should grow up. Because they don't want to show losses from their stupid mistakes, they prolong their own pee poor performance. Greece and other countries that can't pay back loans shouldn't but will, continue to borrow money they can't pay back. Both sides pointing the finger leads to the idiot discussions you see reflected in politics in any butt hurt economy today.

Portugal. Irelad, Italy and Spain are right behind Greece here. The European model that Obama wants us to implement is falling apart.

And yes even the Obama socialism agena might work if he were to follow the lead of Norway and let us supplement the costs by drilling for the oil. Norway and even Canada are doing fine because they exploit their oil reserves while Obama is letting China tap our Florida reserves by drilling in Cuban waters. I guess he trustst that China will not have a spill that would hit Florida beaches while our technolog is not up to snuff.

Greece isn't in this problem because of socialism. They're in this problem because they joined the EU when they shouldn't have; now their government can't borrow to operate. No bond agencies will loan them money.

There seems to be a big problem collecting taxes in Greece, just like the USA. Everyone wants to pay minimum wage, while upper management makes $50,000,000. Then they won't pay tax on the money they made...

Are you kidding Derek?!?!?

The Greek Government has failed to explain itself!?!?!!!!!!!

The governemnt has tried to explain itself time and time again. NO ONE IS LISTENING! These rioters do not care about explanations, all they know is that their free ride is over and they have to be responsible for themselves now, and they don't want that. So they decide instead to loot and steal, and burn their country to ashes. You can't explain anything to savage animals!

It's time to pay the PIPER!!!!!!!!!

TOO many "good ol boy deals".

Germany has highly regulated capitalism, not socialism.

Having lived there, they are a Soziale Wirtschaft, or a socialized economy, a mix between capitalism and socialism. The Germans have understood that in some aspects, socialism works well, and in others, it doesn't, while the same is said of capitalism.

And just on a personal note, don't you love it when people collapse your comments because they disagree with your opinion? Butthurt conservatives can't stand common sense and logic.

It would be hjelpful if some of the idiots actually did even a tiny bit of homework becore ranting on about their mis-informed and twisted opions.

1) Greece has a very long history (around 3500 years) of being "social democrats." That is they elect officials not only to represent them but to potentially operate key industries. This was always reay ion Greece because it never had much industry. Originally agriculture, fishing and trade were almost the entire economy with the modern addition of tourism. But they are not a "socialist" country in the sense that it is being used on NV.

2) When Greece applied to convert from drachmas to the euro, the ECC did a very thorough review of Greece's books. While they recognized that debt was high, they saw no problem with Greece repaying it at current rates of growth. In fact, the German bankers who did the review found only one "flaw" --- the military was charging the books with capital expenditures (ships, tanks, etc) when they were delivered rather than when they were ordered. This issue had already been addressed by law and was in the process of being implemented with all new military contracts. So, if Greece was drowning in all this debt, why did no one see it coming? If government pensions were a potential problem, why didn't anyone notice? Doesn't make sense does it?

3) When Greece voted to go to the euro there was a waiting period involved. During that waiting period German and French central and private banks grossly manipulated the drachma to their own benefit. As a result the value of the drachma dropped to less than half of what it should have been. Half the life savings of the Greek people, half of government pension funds, virtually half of all the monetary wealth in Greece simplay evaporated from the Greek economy. But directly into the bottom lines of those same French and German central and private banks who were coincidentally funding Greek government borrowing.

4) They say it takes two to tango and that is nowhere more true that in international currency and lending markets. The Germans and French were making tons of profits from the collapse of the drachma that they themselves engineered. In fact, the profits from Greece, Spain, and Portugal were sufficient that the Germans and French were able to hide their own financial weaknesses. The "ideal" situation for French and German bankers would be for Greece to hang on in perpetual high-interest indebtedness to those same bankers. Kinbda like American bankers whose ideal credit card customer is one who is late each month and only makes the minimum payment.

5) But when the Bush Depression hit, Greece was effected right along with the rest of Europe, And suddenly the country couldn't sustain its level of borrowing because of increasing demands of the countries social network and much higher interest rates. And, even if they had wanted to, the German and French banks has already dispersed Greece's wealth to their own stockholderts as profit and could do nothing much to actually help Greece.

6) Now it is looking like the German and French central and private banks are unable to break Greece's economic death spiral. Massive layoffs and wage and pension cuts are increasing the stresses on their social safety net while that same social net is being cut. While cutting jobs in a down economy doesn't make much sense when you think about it, it is the only thing that the German and French bankers are going to suggest. The honorable thing would have been to repay some of the billions looted from the Greek economy during the drachma to euro conversion.

If you want to find very biased coverage of the Greek economy, you only have to look in the French, German, or American newspapers. If you want to see it from the victims' POV, try the Greek, Italian, Spanish, Irish, or Purtuguese newspapers. If you want to see something more objective try the British papers. What happened to Greece is exactly why the British have not joined in the euro conversion. A very smart move by our English cousins.

But don't give me that bull about socialism and welfare states and lazy government workers and fancy $9000 a year pensions. All that does is indicate that you are ignorant and have chosen to remain ignorant.

It's so frustrating to read people talking about how what Greece needs is neoliberal fiscal policy when neoliberal fiscal policy is EXACTLY the problem. The biggest economic turnaround in US history was the New Deal... increased investment in the people. The same will play out in Greece now and in the United States in five years. You can't turn around an economy by torching it with neoliberal voodoo economics.

Ranman is correct about Germany... much like the Scandinavian region, they do not banish private corporations by any means but they do not shy away from nationalization when it makes the most sense and their culture hasn't been destroyed by Objectivism. They help take care of their own. In the US, we kick our own when they're down. Empathy is dead and it's going to take us down the same path as Greece with their austerity measures.

Alan Pugh

It's so frustrating to read people talking about how what Greece needs is neoliberal fiscal policy when neoliberal fiscal policy is EXACTLY the problem. The biggest economic turnaround in US history was the New Deal... increased investment in the people. The same will play out in Greece now and in the United States in five years. You can't turn around an economy by torching it with neoliberal voodoo economics.

So is it your suggestion that we just keep on spending with both hands like a drunk sailor in a cat house? How are you planning on paying it back? Or are you just going to write it off as an "investment". If that is the case, why don't you just lend me a couple of grand and I'll just write it off? Would that work for you?

One of these days, the lenders will just say no. At the rate we are going, it won't be too long before the government holds a debt auction and nobody comes. Then what will you do? In the Great Depression we were primarily an agrarian society, the vast majority of the country was able to grow at least something to eat; that isn't the case today. When the stipend dries up, what are all the people that we have "Social Engineered" into living off the hand of government do then? I asked before, Will they just sit on the curb and cry or will the become a rioting Athens style mob with a .45 Colt in everyone's hand? My money is 3 to 1 on the Mob. Is that what you want to see? I have seen it and can promise you that you don't want to.

When a government can't borrow any more, they have no choice but print money with both hands. then you have the Wiemar Republic of the 1930's. That is how insurrection starts. When people can't feed their kids and it takes a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread, normally sane and rational people will Do some really friggin' crazy things. When things get bad enough, they will follow Satan straight into Hell if he promises to fix the problems.

I have some very good friends that are from Germany. They are a logical, rational, kind, and generous people, but about 80 years ago, they followed a really crazy little bastard (literally) because of just that. I am all too aware of what happened as I have two uncles that are permanent residents of Collivelle-sur-mer.

The really scary thing is, when it comes our time to pay the piper...Greece, being part of the EU family, is being treated a young child who lacks discipline, by caring parents...when America is forced to accept our round of "Austerity" by those we need hand outs from, it will come from a world that has viewed the US as enemies, competitors, "bullies"...We either begin to correct our problems, before the "Crap" hits the fan, or we will be fed into the shredder, with shouts of glee and joyous celebration by every nation on the planet...Now I understand that 60% of you believe that the next generation(s) deserve nothing better that the dumpster behind the local abortion clinic, but most of the rest of us (or at least 1) is/are getting really tired of intentionally stealing from our/my grandchildren so you can have a government buying your condoms for you

The New Deal did not end the depression for the United States, most of the basic tenets of the New Deal were overturned by the US Supreme Court. The event that brought the United states out of the Depression was World War I, we put 11,000,000 men in to uniform, we expanded our economic output by over 3,000% in 2 years, we brought women in to the workforce because of the shortage of men. World War II ended our Great Depression nt the New Deal - study history before spouting off about something you obviously know nothing about

Ternan, World War I was twenty-five years before the New Deal. And you're telling me to study history.

What you were trying to think of was WWII, which a few neoliberals pretend was the driving force behind FDR's economic turnaround, but this theory has been destroyed by Keynesians for decades. The Chicago school of economics is suffering a painful, noisy death and these posts like "oh the New Deal didn't actually work" are amongst the last throes of that failed philosophy.

Only one thing ever trickled down on the working class with neoliberal policy, and it wasn't wealth. Fox News, Milton Friedman, and their friends in the Tea Party can try to rewrite history all the want, but you can always read some Krugman for some economic reality.

Alan Pugh

Only one thing ever trickled down on the working class with neoliberal policy, and it wasn't wealth. Fox News, Milton Friedman, and their friends in the Tea Party can try to rewrite history all the want, but you can always read some Krugman for some economic reality.

And you can try reading Hayek for an opposing view. Both He and Friedman are Nobel Laureate and their theories considered to be just as valid. By the way, Krugman's Theories are no different than Hayek's, Freidman's or Keynes's in that they are THEORIES. Or were you anointed by some higher being to be the one that decided which theories are valid and which are not? Sorry, I must have missed the memo; please have it re-sent.

That is really the problem I have with you and yours.You and your group consider yourselves to be the sole repository of of all that is good, right, or intelligent because you are, after all, "the enlightened ones." You smugly portray yourselves as some "Epicurean Intelligentsia" or direct genetic descendants of Adam Weishaupt and the Bavarian Illuminati.

In your view, you are the only ones that are right and good (everyone else is evil, racist, fascist,or Nazi; name your pejorative). We mere mortals are incapable of making the correct decisions as you see correct to be, and we must be lead by higher beings like yourself and your peers. You demand we embrace some all powerful, all encompassing government uber alles with power of thumbscrew to enforce your vision of good and right.

Here is a news flash for you young man, I didn't fall off the back of the Turnip truck last night. I have been a licensed Professional Engineer for over 35 years, hold 2 Engineering degrees and an MBA. Just because you think yourself to be so smugly superior to everyone else doesn't necessarily make it so. I have also, with my late wife, raised 2 children who are also both professionals, and now have 4 Grand Children; so please check your smug superiority at the door, young man.

Sounds like ALAN PUGH needs to get his ass out of the library and into socity were THEORIES are like dog @!$%# on the bottom of your shoe's.

Chris, you're talking about pejoratives (which I didn't use) all the while personally insulting me and "my kind," whatever that is. Yes, I think I'm right... that's not smugness, that's conviction and I assume you have it as well. Do either of us KNOW we're right? No, of course not. I'm not here for childish arguing of semantics, I'm here to give my opinions on economics.

With the global market that is now created they will bring down more than the EU.

We will also fall in the USA. OR at least we will be pushed so close to the edge we can see over the side.

Hey mate, do you have any clue about what's going on out there? What does "spoiled brat" means? Is it a country that you talking about or some kindergarten issue? "Labor unions in the public sector should be outlawed and collective agreements stopped" Hell yeah mate that's the democratic point of view. I say martial law would be also useful...Don't forget your past mate, it will come in front of you again. Greece is the shield for all the european economies. If Greece falls then the whole EU will collapse like a row of dominoes. Don't forget that Greece has absorbed many of the French and German financial crisis of 08-09 through unneeded investments in technology (i.e. Siemens) and Defence (i.e. Eurofighters, submarines). Have a nice day and sleep tight the best are yet to come

I just returned from a 3 wk stay in Europe where I worked with many German, French, Swedish, Polish - basically all the NATO countries...what was funny is that my German friends came up to me unsolicited and asked me what the heck we (the US) are doing? Have we learned nothing from their continued economic mistakes? They say their govt's "progressive" economic policies have gone too far and they see us going down that same road!

how much they paid you to write that crap????? Tell Germans to return the money they own to Greece from World War II first and then talk .Please learn the facts before you make assumptions ...

how much they paid you to write that crap????? Tell Germans to return the money they own to Greece from World War II first and then talk .Please learn the facts before you make assumptions ...

Really your going to go to WW II? I am positive Germany already gave that and much much more to Greece in the first round or so of bail out funds.

Yes, DocGR, public sector unions HAVE TO GO! There's no need for them. It is as blatantly corrupt an idea as anything I have ever seen. Unions donate overwhelmingly to Democrats. Democrats are the fiercest defenders of public sector unions. Coincidence? Nope. I believe liberals call it "bought-and-paid-for."

If a private sector union made a "contribution" to the company executives at contract negotiation time, I would call that a BRIBE. But money given to politicians under the same circumstances is ok?

In what world do public sector unions have anything to do with democracy anyway? We don't live in a democracy, we live in a Constitutional Republic.

That Greek per capita number is based upon so many working for the government entities - just like what is happening here. One Greek leader pointed out that there were more empployees on a standard trolley than passengers and that the city would be better off paying for cabs for the riders. It was the growth of he public sector unions that ensured a bloated government full of bureaucrats and workers gettin paid high salaries for doing nothing. Sound familiar? Meanwhile we condemn any governor who tries to cut the power of these unions in their state as if they were doing something bad to he middle class instead of stopping this Greek travesty from occurring in their state.

Blame everything on the unions not government policy not useless wars, not wall street corruption not bad economic policies ........................

Devlin, spot on...

kat, first, no one paid me...true story. Secondly, what assumptions were made? What "facts" are you referring to?

Hello German, the biggest recipeints of Social Welfare in the history of the world is the United States "Free Market, Capitalist" banks and financital institutions. Remember the Bailouts (plural)! Compliments of U.S. Taxpayers they have been in the tens of trillions (that's trillion with a T). We are now bailing out the European banks as well and guess who's on the hook to pay for those loans if they default? That's right, U.S. Taxpayers!

The IMF is very brazen in its fear mongering that we have lost a decade economically. Especially since the IMF has been one of the biggest contributors to perpetuating the instability of the European crisis. The dominoes are beginning to fall in what is an orchestrated attempt by the banksters to consolidate Europe and eventually the rest of the world’s economies under one umbrella that is to be controlled by those that have always controlled currency and money. The most egregious aspect of this contrived extortion is that they are blaming the people who are the backbone of any economy instead of their greedy corrupt political and business leaders.

George Papandreou was pressured to quit because he lapsed into a morally and ethical responsible position by trying to give the people of Greece a say in their economic future through a referendum. This vote would have given the Greek people the choice to stay in the Euro zone and allow their country to be foreclosed upon by the banksters or leave the Euro regain their sovereignty and coin their own currency once again. The IMF bullied the smallest country as a litmus test for what is going to be a much more challenging foreclosure process when it comes to the larger economies. This dilemma you are watching unfold goes to the core of the rotten apple that is the world’s financial system.

Folks, you are witnessing the death throes of a corrupt financial system where the stock markets and the fractional reserve banking system are at its core. The volatility in the stock markets are a microcosm of the greed, theft and corruption that has perpetrated all aspects of our and other countries economic systems. In the United States, It doesn’t matter who’s in office. Our political system has turned into a two headed one party system with both parties serving their masters, Wall Street and the banksters/Federal Reserve. The stock market is just another ponzi scheme whose intent is to fleece the gullible at the bottom of the pyramid. The stock market is a rouge element of a financial system that is meant to funnel the wealth to the elite/banksters who soicopathically control our financial lives. It is reaching a point where there is nothing to take anymore from the 99% of the world. The banksters would separate you from your rainy day fund if they could gain access to your shoe box or secret compartment in your purse or wallet. The stock market isn’t the main problem; it’s the fractional reserve banking system that has set the foundation for outright theft. We are experiencing the biggest bank and investment robbery in history and the banks and financial institutions are doing the robbing. When you blame one political party or another they have you right where they want you, in fear, divided and distracted to the theft that is going on right in front of your eyes each and every second of the day.

When you have people on Wall Street day trading and speculating making half a million dollars a year in their twenties betting on people being foreclosed on, you need to ask yourself what is the true purpose of our banking system? At the moment it is largely a theft on the American public. MF Global and Corzine knows this and knows that nobody with his connections have served any time for stealing the investor’s money. The financial system’s main mission should be to allocate capital to areas of greatest growth in the real world economy. Yet they allow all kinds of broker speculation and financial gimmicks such as the derivative markets which are based on non-realistic side bets which are now in the quadrillions. The derivatives market was illegal for most of the 20^th century.

The European banking crisis is a prime example of what is going to happen to all economies associated with stock market fraud and the Federal Reserve banking system. The financial strife in Greece is the model that will befall most countries. Greece is but a symptom of a cancer that has attached itself to the world’s economies. The Federal Reserve (which is neither federal nor a reserve) has been creating money (monopoly money) out of thin air and charging interest on it insuring a debtor economy for anyone who chooses or is forced to get involved with the Federal Reserve and their fractional reserve banking system. That is why this whole European or any countries current debt crisis will never be resolved and will be preyed upon by the stock market vultures. The Federal Reserve System is designed to cause economies to fail.

If someone loans you two dollars to run your economy and expects three back for the loan and interest how are you going to pay the third back? You can’t unless you borrow more dollars which puts you in perpetual debt and in a constant borrowing cycle to pay off the debt. This is designed not accidental.

Here’s the kicker, once the Federal Reserve/banksters have you struggling to pay off your interest, they send in their loan sharks the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The IMF will loan you money to cover your ever burdening interest payments but they attach a provision that if you default, you will have to give them your assets in what they call privatization (foreclosure).

Since the interest is exponential, you will default and the banksters will come in and try to foreclose on your country, like Greece. They are being told to sell off their own country to pay back the people who caused the mess to begin with. This allows the elite to steal your intrinsic valuable assets because they gave you paper (loans/debt) and the interest on the debt that is systematically impossible to pay back. This also allows the parasitic stock speculators to profit from this designed theft. They not only know the outcome of an economy, they can gamble on the economic bubbles at the investor’s expense. This cancer goes all the way down the food chain.

In the United States case, it doesn’t have to be that way. In our constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, it stipulates that we can “coin money” as a nation and avoid the Federal Reserve’s interest (fee charged on loans) black hole.

So don’t be fooled that the Europeans have come to grips with their financial debt, it’s impossible, it’s a virus that has spread around the globe. Hopefully the Greek people will get their referendum so the Peter Principal will kick in for the Federal Reserve. The stock market vultures will continue to contrive “financial instruments” (credit default swaps/credit derivatives) to defraud the people of the world.

Banks, Central banks, IMF = Federal Reserve = Debtor economies, Debtor Nations (economic slaves) and carrion for the stock market derivative heist.

Kat, Germany owes Greece nothing for World War II - they kicked Greek butt and then Greece got their butt kicked after the war in their own little civil war.

Greece has been panhandling off the rest of Europe for over 300 years - this economic crisis is just business as usual for the Greeks

@TrustVerify

Remember the Bailouts (plural)! Compliments of U.S. Taxpayers they have been in the tens of trillions (that's trillion with a T).

Oh sorry, sorry... you my friend do not know your numeric system....You are 100% wrong.

It was billions with a "B". The entire national debt is 15.3 Trillion... So your bail out of 10's of trillions is absolutely false.

Hello Devlin7, do you read independently or just regurgitate what Fox news and MSNBC gives you what you can handle in a sound bite. Enclosed is but one example of hundreds that you can look up yourself. Before you get so adamant about defending the status quo, do a little research, it’s not that hard! And even if it was “only” billions, which it’s not, why are you so quick to defend the illegal bailouts to the corporations that are ripping us off? Our national debt has nothing to do with the bailouts, you really need to get out more!

Have You Heard About The 16 Trillion Dollar Bailout The Federal Reserve Handed To The Too Big To Fails?

Economic Collapse Blog
Friday, December 2, 2011

What you are about to read should absolutely astound you. During the last financial crisis, the Federal Reserve secretly conducted the biggest bailout in the history of the world, and the Fed fought in court for several years to keep it a secret

Do you remember the TARP bailout? The American people were absolutely outraged that the federal government spent 700 billion dollars bailing out the “too big to fail” banks. Well, that bailout was pocket change compared to what the Federal Reserve did. As you will see documented below, the Federal Reserve actually handed more than 16 trillion dollars in nearly interest-free money to the “too big to fail” banks between 2007 and 2010. So have you heard about this on the nightly news? Probably not. Lately Bloomberg has been reporting on some of this, but even they are not giving people the whole picture. The American people need to be told about this 16 trillion dollar bailout, because it is a perfect example of why the Federal Reserve needs to be shut down. The Federal Reserve has been actively picking “winners” and “losers” in the financial system, and it turns out that the “friends” of the Fed always get bailed out and always end up among the “winners”. This is not how a free market system is supposed to work

Are you kidding me? I caught you in a lie. A flat out lie.... Yes there is a HUGE difference between tens of billions and tens of trillions... one trillion is one million billion. The two sites you reference interestingly are the exact same article... were you to dense to notice this?

infowars.com and theeconomiccollapseblog.com you have got to be kidding me....

I do not watch Fox or MSNBC ( socialist rag ) see I do not have cable or satellite and where I live broadcast television is not an option. However I do read their websites as well as others to aggregate the news so I can make up my own opinion on what is real. Left, Right, Independent they all have their twists and agenda... I then decide what I believe to be true. I also can tell flat out crap when I read it.

Again I call Lemming...

Devlin...

Are you kidding me? I caught you in a lie. A flat out lie.... Yes there is a HUGE difference between tens of billions and tens of trillions... one trillion is one million billion.

You really shouldn't accuse people of lying if you haven't checked out the information for yourself. It really is trillions and a trillion is not "one million billion", it is one thousand billion You can scoff at the figures and at the sources, but the sources are numerous... CNN. PBS, Dollars and Sense Magazine, CBO, GAO, etc., etc.

For further clarification there is a handy-dandy table with the breakdown of the loans from the Fed, FDIC and Treasury.

This table relies entirely on government data and represents an accounting of actual government funds disbursed, mostly in the form of loans. Our total includes major programs of the U.S. Treasury
Department, the Federal Reserve and other government
agencies to assist the financial sector and institutions that had a role in the crisis. It does not include stimulus funds, unemployment, student loans, auto bailout and other initiatives to create jobs or support citizens.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Total_Wall_Street_Bailout_Cost

Cyprus is a mini Greece, with thousands of overpaid government workers doing very little for vast amounts of euro per month. It has taken me over a year to get planning permission to build a tiny room next to my house and add a garden, for which i paid 3.000 euro!!. At least charge a fortune if you are efficient and offer a good service! The general mentality in Greece as it is in Cyprus, is to waste most of the day in coffee shops, smoking....and drinking frappe. The government workers are rude and inconsiderate, and in short I am trying to say, politics aside, even if the Greeks occupied Switzerland their mentality would simply lead them to the place they are now. Burning in flames, cos they cant have their cake and eat it

Hello Devlin7, I apologize if I was harsh in my initial response to your comment. The point and actual benefit from a blog is the exchange of information. I learn a lot from other bloggers. It's kind of like a teacher student exchange, sometimes I'm the student and sometimes I'm the teacher. In any event we are still bailing out our country and the world and you and I are on the hook to pay the bailouts back if they go into default. Even if the banks pay the money back, they still got interest free money that they charge us exorbitant amounts of interest on. They benefit from going bankrupt and then we subsidize their future profits through bailouts.

Even if the banks pay the money back, they still got interest free money that they charge us exorbitant amounts of interest on. They benefit from going bankrupt and then we subsidize their future profits through bailouts.

Yep... "interest-free loans"... sure would be nice if regular folks and small businesses could get them.

Yeah, chase away all the tourists and burn down private enterprise. That will help grow the economy and dig them out of this hole!

when the govt taxes your pay in exchange for future benefits and then withholds or curtails those benefits they have breached a contract. A contract that the Govt forced people to enter into. Give me my money back with interest and I won't get angry when Social Security is abolished.

When the govt promises you entitlements with inadequate taxing to ALL the people that receive such entitlements it is smoke and mirrors. Louis do you get it?

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with welfare or foodstamps. When the government is so corrupt, it allows coorporations to squeeze every dime from the 99%, then there is no tax revenue to keep it going. These people don't want the government to feed them, they just want a chance to make a living. None of Greece's officials are worried because they all have huge swiss accounts from playing mafia with coorporations instead of caring for their country. Just like what is going on in America today. Add up all the social programs we pay for, and I guarantee it's not a fraction of what we are sending to china for their crap, just so companies can make a quick buck.

Greece's problem is that they have no exports, only imports. It's simple math. When money goes out, with none coming back in... = bad economy. These building burners arent' mad cause they didn't get their check. They are mad because the government screwed them over and are trying to band-aid the problem by screwing average citizens instead of creating a solution which would hurt the coorporations.

I do see your point though... it's way easier to pick on poeple below you who struggle every day to make ends meet. Social bigotry definitely makes some people feel better about themselves.

Louis - You're point of view is exactly why there is rioting in Greece. They promised to help us, they promised us health care, they promised us social security, what about the social contract, they promised, they promised... I've got news for you - THEY LIED!!! They lied to take your money, to give themselves power, to buy your votes, etc. There is no money, we're broke, forget the promises of the past, we have to fix the future unless we want to end up like Greece.

The world is going down because governments are preserving the debts incurred from the 1%'s over monetizing of goods and services, which is another way of saying "price gouging" at best or "theft" at worst.

The people of Greece shouldn't be burning their buildings, they should be setting a fire under the politicians too foolish to abdicate and flee.

Iceland was in the same situation. Their politicians sided with the people and told the banks to screw themselves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/iceland-makes-fledgling-recovery-from-its-economic-meltdown/2012/01/12/gIQAW1q83P_story.html

Greece and the World's 99% would do it self a favor were it to follow Iceland's example.

The world is going down because there are too many who believe they are "entitltled" and that does not mean the old on social security or the hard working poor. It means illegals, lay-abouts, and those of wealth who believe it is OK to have special rules for them! If you honestly think that CEO's who have taken taxpayer money for their corporations and then give out big salaries and bonus packages in the millions are not fostering "entitlement" then you are a fool!!!

JooBloo: your grasp of reality is hindered by the rose-tinted glasses and your misconcetion of the role of GVT. Oh by the term 99% has always been a huge exaggeration and flat out wrong.

top 1% pay 18% of all Federal income taxes

top 10% pay 42% of all federal taxes

top 53% pay 100% of all Federal Taxes

Bottom 47% pay no Federal income tax

Now who are the deadbeats and who is funding this nation not the losers in the 47%

This has nothing to do with welfare or foodstamps. When the government is so corrupt, it allows coorporations to squeeze every dime from the 99%, then there is no tax revenue to keep it going.

How are they "squeezing every dime from the 99%"? You are not forced to purchase their products or services ( well except now for healthcare ). You Libs love generalizing. No facts, no naming names or in this case corporations.... You just echo what you've heard and not looked into the facts yourself. Do a little research without blinders on.

I hate to break it to you but the 99% are not on your side.... it's the 1 - 5% socialist/communist activists that want to cause destabilization of the United States that have you convinced 99% are being held down. Unfortunately there are quite a few lemmings that will believe anything they are told.

So who's fault is all of this? develin? and ternan? The politicians? They are bought out and put in by the coorps... I am not forced to purchase their products or services? lol Give me a F^%$ing break~! Name one product 10 years ago (when this fiasco began) that was not an import, and I'll name 1,000 that are. You think your phone was made here? Your laptop?

I guess it's my duty as a lower income citizen to stop complaining and "get out there and vote!"... vote on one of the 2 candidates placed in there by lobbyists and super pacs and coorporate donations... There is a 2 part voting system... They weed out all the good candidates... and we pick from the crap pile they throw at us.

The 1% pays 18% of all taxes... BOO F&#$ing HOO! they own 95% of the money. Their greed has shaved down employee paychecks to = a FRACTION of a percent of what the CEO for these coorps make. GREED! Don't make excuses for greed and think I'll buy that crap. Spread the wealth, just even a BIT, then come make a plea for tax payments.

The bottom line is people realize their future and lives are completely in the hands of the elite, and they are getting tired of it. "WE THE PEOPLE" 99% = more than 1%. Anger/Burning = Getting Fed Up... Not = whining cry babies.

Fix those buildings while you are at it...

Bring the troops home to protect our cities and particularly being bodyguards for our wonderful "representatives" that are screwing all of us by doing nothing except concentrating on staying in power

Absolutely. We have to change our whole outlook, recognize the similarities with other entitlement-based societies, and make the appropriate changes. Not one of the guys running for president has convinced me they know what has to be done, much less shown an actual plan or inclination to do it, and meanwhile we're just drifting towards the abyss.....

bram-1, His name is Ron Paul Bud.

JJ, you have it precisely correct. Ron Paul has the solutions, but most people don't want to hear them. You cannot continue to grow government when you continue to decrease the tax base that supports it, unless of course, you borrow the money. When you can no longer borrow, you end up like Greece. I can assure you that the housing crisis was only the beginning of sorrows in this country. People borrowed and spent more than they could afford for years, so they failed when they could no longer do either. Governments are made up of people. The scale may be larger, but the end result is the same.

By the way Buckfan, while our Don Quixote Texan spent trillions sending our troops to chase windmills in Iraq, we were using oil from the Arabian states, paid with paper I.O.S's. Insiders were buying the Haliburton type stocks, evading taxes, and none of us were protesting. We never felt that the govenrment was intruding on our civil liberties then by taking retirement monies to look for something that was not there in the first place. Our leaders then took trillions--not financed by bonds--and made sure their friends raked ibn windfalls. Wealth shifted from the middle class to the upper 1% class. The remnant--like most Americans fell from the middle calss to the underclass. Now we are angry and mad. You know somehting: we should be mad at ourselves because when Scot Ritter mentioned that Saddam has no WMD's we allowed the networks to censor him and we said nothing. Prophecies must be fulfilled.

Maebeline,

Get your head out of the sand, these are the people you support and what they said about WMD's. Truth hurts when it hits you in the face.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

HEJUSTDOESNOT - this is fantastic. I listened to the Congressional hearings when the decision was being made as to whether or not we should invade Iraq - and I knew all along that there had been strong democratic support for the invasion - contrary to what so many ignorant liberal try to claim - but this is priceless.

You might want to add this to your list:

WikiLeaks Show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq – With Surprising Results

By Noah Shachtman - October 23, 2010

(http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikileaks-show-wmd-hunt-continued-in-iraq-with-surprising-results/)

“But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction.”

Although WMD's were never found in the quantities intelligence gathering suggested, the fact is WMD's, as well as the means and expertise to produce them, were found in Iraq.

Why do liberals always want to bring up the war when talking about the debt or the deficit? They say things like "We wouldn't have these problems if we wouldn't have gone to war and we'd just tax the rich." That's just a bunch of crap. The problem first and formost is the Collectivist, Marxist, Communist, Socialist, Statist ideology of the left. First we have to kill those ideas. Next, we have to figure a way out of the fiscal mess created by people with those ideas. The mess of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, food stamps, housing subsidies, etc. The unsustainable programs that are actually driving the deficit and the debt.

DJB-2681404

You shouldn't include Communism in the liberal ideology list, because in communism there are no free rides. You contribute or you go without!

Maebeline: I think the previous comments prove just how little you truly know about the topics - try doing some real research on a topic rather than getting your world knowledge from 30 second soundbites from obama and his like that are simply paid liars

Wow you win the cliche of the year award......

Try asking them what socialism is. They love shouting the word, but they can never give you a definition of what it is.

Apparently you know nothing about history. Big government always has failed and always will fail.

And apparently, you know nothing about history itself. ALL governments fail, or have failed at some point. Just lumping into a big government vs. small government issue is foolish, because it doesn't get down to the real reasons of why they've failed.

Small minds like to put things into small categories.

DunkinH has no concept of what is happening in Europe...no concept. He can only understand simple ideological phrases. It's mindsets like his that will always come to the wrong conclusion because of ideology over actual fact.

Ranman87

You're the one who thinks the failures of socialism in Greece don't matter just because of the entirely different economies of Sweden and Norway are happening to do better. Don't talk to me about small minds when you're ignoring the center topic of this entire discussion, you nitwit.

@Shadowbanks

Look, antoher know it all who says I'm wrong but won't explain why. Tell me, why am I wrong for thinking that the bloated public sector in Greece was a major contributer to its recent troubles with national debt?

Actually if you bothered doing some research ranman87 you wqould have discovered that Norway and Sweden have moved toward the center over the last 15 years with significant reduction in GVT services to meet the corresponding reduction in revenue - benefits have eroded in all areas of social services as quiet tax payer revolts have led to more conservative GVTs

It's not. It's a band aid for a gunshot wound.

maybe they will off shore more jobs and take care of another country...while this one goes broke...nafta is the reason only ceo's can afford stuff... and make millions at every one else's expense...the american politician sold the working class out long time ago...

It not throwing more people out of work, it is call cutting the size of government. The free ride is over. You know, it is the same ones you complain about at the coffee shop, the 4 people leaning on a shovel watching 1 dig a hole.

The typical government response to budget crisis is to cut services to the taxpayer, raise taxes or cost of services but never once consider reducing the number of observers around the hole.

Do you remember Watts? Did not make sense here either.

What's so hard to understand? This is an economic war. The people doing the burning do not own that property. They are hurting the people that they mean to hurt...

It's not rocket science.

A businessman trying to make a living gets his store looted and his livelihood in jeopardy by "protesters" OK? Thought they were protesting against government. Guess the Smash and Grab mentality sets it and everyone is fair game?

Roc I did not condone the behavior. Just commented on what it was. Keep in mind that private industry community uses their wealth to bend legislation to its favor. I'd go so far as saying that often the business community has double the voice of the regular citizen because they have the $$$ to lobby the Government as well as the ability to vote. So yeah, I can see why an angry mob would start burning businesses down when they have +20% unemployment and being told that all their social safety nets are being destroyed so that everything can continue business as usual.

The Greeks are saying, enough. We aren't accepting the austerity measures, we'd rather go down a different path. It's their choice and not being a Greek myself, I can't really comment on who is right. If I lived there and had to go through what they have, maybe I'd be part of the mob.

tom....it is rare to see anyone think beyond the 1st level or 2 and realize it IS the banks, financial services, insurance companies that run our governments....the thing in greece happens when you have FREE trade....all the people will see their standards of living go UP if they are third world countries and work for $5 a day....they can live off it because they live in hovels, no running water, no electricity, etc....WE on the other hand pay over $5 in taxes everyday and OUR standards must come down...this is what is happening in greece...their entire economy has to come down so it can be rebuilt (re-purchased)...piss on the poor, let them die...we want the money...that is the thought at the base of it all....

capitalism at its finest...some gotta die so others may profit...its all ok until it becomes YOUR turn to sacrifice

Demothugs.

Well Carl,

When you are out of money what do you do?

Really, carl? What DOES work than, in your opinion - endless spending of money that no one has even earned yet, thus enslaving future generations? Sheesh.

I wish everyone would go and learn what "money" is. Money is debt. How is money created? Do you know? It is created by issuing debt, that is how. Our economy doesn't run out of money depite decades of buying more from other countries than we have sold them. Why is that? Why is it that we don't run out of money? It is because new money is created when the government overspends - and thus issues debt. Who does the US borrow trillions from? Who has that sort of money? Well a great deal of it is "new" money that the federal reserve issues - but it counts as debt. A good portion of the federal debt is money that the US government owes to itself - it is a book keeping number more than anything. It's recording money that the government has added to the economy.

The problem with Greece is that they gave up their ability to create money when they went to the Euro. So when they overspend, the debt is real debt owed to banks. They have a lot less of an ability to manage their debt without their own sovereign currency. This is a huge "oops" moment for the architects of the Euro currency. Nobody realized what would happen when control over money supply was centralized - and the Europeans are not sufficiently unified as a common people to want to share the pain which is demanded by a common currency.

The Federal Reserve has printed too much money for far too long and should be eliminated. At some point, foreign governments will refuse to accept our debt-based currency, and President Obama was told just that at the G8 and G20 summits. We have been able to manage our debt by allowing the Fed to print money, but it is only a matter of time before we have a new "international" currency for commodities trading, and the U.S. Dollar will meet its demise. When that day arrives, our "faith-based" economy will no longer sustain us unless dramatic changes are forthcoming.

Bram I agree. Please do not forget the CORPORATIONS that are also dependant upon the largesses of gov't spending: primarily pharmaceutical co's (that have convinced EVERYONE to talk to their doctor about a "syndrome"), the banking and mortgage industries (that force all of us to back home loans for people that can't make the sacrifices necessary to save for a down payment), and the military-industrial complex. Combine the corporate welfare with personal welfare and you have a recipe for disaster. The mindset of "what can I GET" is prevalent in our society. I'd like to see a mindset of "what can I DO to get where I want to be", but I'm not hopeful....

Wasn't Me:

Finally, a comment that makes sense. At least there is one intelligent post here.

@Yella: Has nothing to do with Dems. We're talking Greece, or maybe you didn't notice.

HankE They are talking the same people and idealogy or are you too blind to notice?

The biggest entitlement of all is the military. I've been in that business and it is an entitlement program. It's a welfare program for big corporations. When I worked in that industry I saw acres of lazy employees bickering with one another, getting nothing done, but expecting government handouts for the work that they did. It is no accident that all military programs overrun their costs so badly - think of those overruns as food stamps for the entitled masses that work for defence contractors.

Why on earth does a country that is 4.3% of the world's population have to spend 43% of all military spending. We're a country based on the ideals of freedom and democracy. Those ideals should stand on their own without a vast military complex to hold them up.

Tera, you are wrong and New Orleans after Katrina proves it. Add to New Orleans the Watts riots and you understand the very thin veneer of civilization. Endanger what people think of as their future, when that future comes solely from the government, and you will see those two examples repeated many times over.

Tera, that's what Russia thought!

Actually, you might see something similar in this country.

Even though one, or both political parties, or past and present presidents are being blamed for our economic woes, its really a matter of greed, and citizens being unable or unwilling to live within their means. When they realize that they couldn't afford that deal on the McMansion, or they've run up their credit cards to the limit, or bought into some other deal that seemed too good to be true, they blame the government for their fiscal problems. Predatory lending issues, and some government policies, and greedy speculators in the oil markets may be to blame for some of it, but not all of it.

Ok Hitler. Get off the computer and go beat your wife some more.

How would you pay to enforce that, the cops dont work for free!!

Look there for what?

B707320C , socialism only works untill you run out of somebody elses money , SEE ANN RAND for the rest of the info;

You must mean Ayn Rand, but I doubt you ever read her works. Sounds like something you heard about on Fox News.

She is dead.

What you guys talking about? Greek Socialism - European Socialism ?
There is a big difference between Socialism and Social !
In Europe is no country with Socialism - they are social !
Socialism was in the former USSR !
Better get the facts - and listen less to Faux Noise !

Ayn Rand was not an economist, she was a novelist and her main work, "Atlas Shrugged" was a work of complete fiction. Anyone who bases their economic principles on this novel is basing their views on something that doesn't exist.

Our greatest economic growth period was when income inequality was the least and the rich paid much higher tax rates. We went to war together (the draft), we made college grants easier to get, we defended unions with the same vigor we now defend shareholders. Since 1980, the only thing that has trickled down has been poverty. Interesting, don't you think?

LOL, I think that Alan Greenspan totally wrecked Ayn Rand's philosophy. It has no credibility anymore.