why is there a war over afghans? I prefer down comforters anyway.

Why are we still there? I heard someone say they killed Bin Laden.

Actually, they said they tried to get a doctor to get a sample of DNA from a suspect living in an unarmed compound but the doctor wasnt able to. So they invaded an ally's territory anyways. Dropped Seals on the roof of an unarmed compound. Shot someone on sight in a darkened room - no id, ON SIGHT. Took the body away and dumped it in the ocean.

But they said it was Bin Laden. Not the Seals that shot the guy, they won't let anyone talk to the Seals, you have to talk to someone that says they talked to the Seals. Pentagon people, that is who you have to talk to. You know, the same ones that told us about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman.

Yep, get your Bin Laden story straight from the Pentagon's special department - the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman Department (snark).

But at any rate, why are we still there? To kill Bin Laden again?

Well; at least those bin laudin speeches have stopped and even the enemy admits he is dead!!!!

They are still people that died and I am truly shocked at some of the hate filled post.

Private contractors that are helping rebuild that nation and the military is stretched so then that they cannot protect those contractors. Hiring outside contractors is a necessity.

Yep, those that told us about Tillman and Lynch also told us that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11. Then there's the statement from OBL saying he had nothing to do with 9/11. Now whom are we to believe? OBL is on record as hating the U.S. and all we stand for so are we to believe that he would deny an act that would give him better standings in the Arab world?

http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html

Then there's this.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2623

I'm not sure what to believe anymore. With false news coming from the media it seems like the plan is to divide and conquer the American people and with the polarized state this country is in I almost believe they are succeeding.

Fire up the audits and find out how much more money Halliburton and KBR is ripping away from us taxpayers!

Larry: False news is probably spread by the media because spreading "stuff" is their job........but who is feeding them the false stuff? Those are the ones we should blame..........back when we went to Iraq it was those wonderful model citizens Cheney, Rumsfeld and puppet Bush. Now we should get our a$$es and troops back home and let the contractors pick tomatoes in GA to replace the Mexicans that have gone back home.

"Contractors" are either greedy capitalists or mercenaries.

No sympathies here.

Anyone that tries to make money from war deserves what they get.

OBXRon......now it's those model citizens of the Obama administration feeding us the false stuff. Obama owns the Afghanistan war....I suppose its now his cronies who are now profiting from it.

Another unmentioned TRAGEDY is the HUGE price tag the US Taxpayer is hit with for these 'Contractors'. Another example of Corporate Profits meaning more than Human Life.

I have always asked WHY America went to war for profit at all? Contractors is simply the corporate name for MERCS. For profit killing and dying and America to some degree participated subsidised and chose this route and is there by culpable to some degree. ; ]

It is a shame that only certain companies either contractors or "contractors" are able to throw a profit from the war. We have received as a country NO return on a ten year investment only to have OUR at home privacy intruded upon by drones? Not only is that stupid due to American citizens rights but it puts MORE American out of work .; ]

Cheers

agrees thaat they know the danger and are well paid.

You do realize that most contractors. And I know a few of them, are not allowed to carry weapons and are assigned a protected home with several Afgan bodyguards. (not that I would trust them)

Sorry but no sympathy here. They easily make 2-3 times more than US military soldiers and marines doing the same job. Truck drivers - 80-100k per year, interperters - 120k a year, mercernaries/security/bodyguards easily make 200k a year........ all tax free.

I know some of these "contractors". Most are ex-soldiers who return to rake in much more money over there than they can here. No one makes them go. They go for the money and the excitement and they know the risks. They could quit and come home at any time. Contrast that with the 18 year old kid who enlists and finds himself over there making about $2k a month. If he finds he can't stand it and is going crazy, it's tough sh_t. He's stuck.

I can feel bad for these people and their families on the one hand, but this is a VERY one sided article. These people KNOW the risks and are paid very well BECAUSE of the risks. When things go bad and they die (which they know can happen any day they are there), then all of a sudden they are uncared for and lament that these companies should pony up millions to their loved ones. In essence, they want to have it both ways. But what's new? Thats the way America works now. Kids want easy loans to go to college to major in philosophy or ancient studies, then expect their loans to be forgiven when they can't find a job. People want food stamps from the government but work cash jobs on the side so they don't lose their food stamps. Just this past week, hundreds of federal workers were fired because they were still receiving government assistance checks every month. Why report that you have a job when you can keep taking taxpayer money?

Boy, the libs are out in force today - the drool is oozing out of the screen here.....

"Mercenaries" --yeah, those cooks and janitors are really dangerous killers (actually, some of them ARE! - just not on our side...) much better to have our guys who are so expensively trained to do battle washing dishes instead, right? That makes sense....

I'll bet the people complaining about the cost of hiring locals are the same people who think it's too much money to pay our troops for getting shot at every day. My kid gets $18,000 a year, and he's in Kandahar- how much would YOU want, libs? How much for YOUR kid? -probably not there though, right? He's at Yale? Brown? Berkeley?

And then there's the KBR and Halliburton haters- the people who want to send our money to the French (Schlumberger) , versus keeping it here in the states. That's smart.....

Let me guess (not that I have to) : if the military had to get larger to expand the support for the fighting arm, you'd be against that too, wouldn't you? Paying our guys a living wage (when I was in we had young people on welfare while in the service) makes up 85% of the military budget- but that's too expensive , isn't it?

So, essentially, we don't need a military, right? That's a good plan. Let's get rid of the military, and then see how long it takes WWIII to break out. That might be somewhat more expensive though, thus a new problem.

If somebody wants to put his butt on the line for pay, then I say more power to them. It supports our guys, and that is all that is necessary.

Cynics be warned: This is sarcasm. Read at your own risk:

Outsourcing wars for profit!! What a novel idea. Here is how it could work.

Third world country "A" fights third world country "B" to solve the issues of sovereign country "1" and sovereign country "2". Sure would solve a lot of problems, and the tv ratings would bury the super bowl. Mercenaries only fight the bad guy right?

Never Stop Asking Questions

"Contractors" are either greedy capitalists or mercenaries.

No sympathies here.

Anyone that tries to make money from war deserves what they get.

How about the CEOs of Haliburton, Xe (Blackwater), etc. Do they deserve big, fat pay checks? That's what they're getting. They're not TRYING to make money from war. They ARE making money from war. And a LOT of it.

This is about redistribution of public funds (yours and mine) into the hands of the private elite corporations as sponsored by our government. Time to change how we do government. I find it silly really. How can 1% have so much power as to hold 99% hostage. We should be running the government. Instead we fall like ripe fruit underneath the capitalist tree to be bought and sold.

Why are we in Afghanistan. WHY.... CAN SOMEONE TELL ME ONCE AND FOR ALL WHY WE ARE THERE....

Man, the amount if mis-information is amazing. Not every contractor is "merc". Some of you need to realize that the company is awarded a specific cost and have set prices per jobs set by the US State Department in wages earned in a hostile area? You guys do know this right? It is not like "Company X" says I am going to pay this contractor 500,000 dollars to rake leaves in front of ISAF command? How about conducting a little research before making some really stupid statements. The majority of US contractors are unarmed and are conducting a job in a support role. Fuel handlers, truck drivers, mechanics, analysts, etc. They are not authorized to carry a firearm or weapon, they must be assigned protection usually from the Afghans or Afghan company that has sub-hired out "security guards". Many analysts are paid significantly well. But they don't get days off, they usually are required 14-18 hour days for the entire time they are over there. They are assigned a specific block of hours that have to be met. There is not "sick days" and usually they receive no "mid-tour" R&R break. They do not receive free medical care and in some cases they can be required to pay for medical services provided if they are injured or seriously wounded. The reason that we need so many US contractors is that the Defense Department post Vietnam War, decided to reduce the number of combat service support units that were active duty. Many more were then tasked to the National Guard or Reserve Status. But you can't keep National Guard units there the entire duration. Unless you had a nationwide draft to fill the ranks you are going to need contractors to provide on-site support. No one wants to accept the idea of the draft but yet you guys are complaining that these people "are over-paid" and almost like they deserve to get killed or wounded? Are you that envious in their paycheck? How about signing up, head overseas for over a year, work yourself into near comma, and walk away with a paycheck for about 120,000 before the tax man takes about 38%.

Look up the pay charts for US government workers. Look at the step pay process and see what a US government employee like a GG-11 or GG-12 makes with the additional danger pay, overseas pay, etc. Yet you say that the contractor is "making bank".

Seriously, do a little research it makes for real discussion. Did multi-tours overseas in the Middle East and dealt with a number of US and foreign contractors both armed and unarmed. This idea that anyone who is a contractor is making 300,000, shooting anyone that moves, and works 6 hours a day is truly funny. Go on line and look through the vast number of unclassified information concerning US State Department regulations on non-military personnel.

And what lawys are these mereceneraries held to while they provide their "services". They operate in dark and die in dark.

How about CEOs of Hallliburton, Xe etc. Do they deserve big, fat pay checks?

Yeah actually they do, you see they are fulfilling a need that exists because someone, some govenrnent, some entity has ALWAYS profited from war, famine, disease, drought, pestilence, etc. because they invest in man, materials, services that provide for these...its called saving for a rainy day and its been this way since the dawn of man.

If a company in the US didnt ROGER up, a foreign one would. Someone will ALWAYS make money from war because war will always be part of our culture and nothing will change that. They are doing a job that

A. needs to be done

B. costs less than what is billed the taxpayer by the US Mil

C. contributes to the GNP

D. gives veterans a chance to earn some decent $

It doesnt make more war or elongates it, it doesnt do anything different than we have done with our standing military since the inception of this country. What is your problem with it exactly?

Contractors are held under the same guide-lines and regulations as the military UCMJ. If a contractor conducts a criminal act the military will seek US civilian assistance, but the days of random gunfire and fire-fights are over. The contractor may even be released to face criminal charges in that host country depending on the act itself and what that country demands in justice. Things are much different than it was back in 2003-2004 Iraq. Everyone remembers the stories about Blackwater armed personal security detachments, but that changed and the rules of engagement are pretty strict. You just can't walk around and shoot up the place because you "feel" you are in danger.

Contractors are held under the same guide-lines and regulations as the military UCMJ....You just can't walk around and shoot up the place because you "feel" you are in danger.

BS meter just blew up.

There will be no parade when the MERCENARIES return "home', America will not shed one tear for the death of over-paid hired KILLERS. These men are nothing but thugs who profit form the deaths of innocent civilians.

People dont hate us because of our "freedom", thats the silliest thing I have ever heard, people hate Americans because of our greed, because we steal their natural resources and will go to war to preserve our "right" to do so.

If you are "proud' to be an American you are either, deaf, dumb and blind or pure EVIL. I was proud at one time, prior to 1980 I was still under the illusion that the military intervention we were doing around the world was actually to help the people in the countries where we were fighting, then I opened my eyes and saw the truth, EVERYTHING we have done since WWII was done to increase the profit margin of major US corporations, there were no Communists in Chile, we started a coup and installed a murderous dictator simply because 3 US corporations were going to lose money.

The entire process of outsourcing formerly military positions is two-pronged (at least) in its aims: 1) As most should know by now, these positions pay far more than would have commensurate military ratings, the bill for which is picked up by taxpayers, and which fact ultimately benefits those companies with the best connections, and 2) these 'civilian' employees owe their primary loyalties not to their military commanders, and certainly not to their country, but to their employers. Ever heard of 'conflict of interest'? It may not be readily apparent yet, but just give it time. As has already been demonstrated, accountability is the first casualty of this process, and it's commonplace to hoot at the concept, but when the US cedes accountability, any possibility for trust follows close behind. In the past, this country has often been able to impose its will in the absence of trust, but that is becoming more and more problematic, and if the trend continues on its current trajectory, it will surely blow up in our faces.

Still doubt? How'd that search for WMDs turn out? Or the Green Zone in Baghdad? Ever seen the bill? Do you think it will decrease in price in the future? See...we agree more than you'd like to admit.

Mac-295039 - Contractors are held under the same guide-lines and regulations as the military UCMJ.

Don't even attempt to tell them the Facts, that President Bush signed a piece of paper in 2005 making the Contractors responsible for adhereance to the UCMJ and the Local US Military Commander's Policies (based on DOD Directives).

92% of US Citizens have NEVER Served. So that means that the majority of them have NEVER been here (Afghanistan). So their emotive opinions are based on information from non participants based on information from other non participants.

Most of these uninformed people are the very reason why most of us will be happy to get out in less than 4 months never to be Recalled to Active Duty again (and again and again) then this will all be on Generation X and Generation Y.

contractors are being way overpaid. I dont give a @!$%# what they are doing in a 3rd world country fighting a fight they cant win. And won't. I had a high school friend take a contractors position. It cost him his family. But he made $120,000 on our tax paying dime. Thought he was worth it. lol. He came back thinking he was god almighty because he just ripped us off. Well that was until I told him to stfu or he would find out what a real fight would be like. He shut up real quick.

Blackwater? and all the contractors are the biggest waste of tax paying dime anyone can think of. In fact no one knows where the millions went. They need to get the hell out of their and drop some real bombs.

On another note...many weapons(illegal) that are being sold on the street today, via craiglist and etc. are from blackwaters and former contractors. Fact!

I believe something similar was done in the civil war here in the US. If you had the money you could hand your son or husbands body over to a new type of professional called and "embalmer" who from an field paid undertaker (risked getting shelled or shot at the front line) would collect the bodies. If you wanted they would put the body in a preservation coffin or special airtight soldered case even with a glass top. If not your beloved was gathered from the pile by regulars and came back Army parcel in a wooden box and would reek quite badly by the time you got him home again.

There is the UN Mercenary Convention which, as usual, the United States sponsored, but failed to sign in 2001, but never ratified. (We do that a lot --- kinda like issuing diplomatic bad checks, no?) If you google it you will find that these are not "contractors" but are mercenaries as defined and forbidden in international law. The contractors fit every single aspect of the definition of a mercenary.

I know the job market in this country is tight. But, every mercenary who has gone to Iraq or Afghanistan absolutely knew that he was breaking international law by going. They are comparable to illegal immigrants in that respect. They knew, but they did it anyway.

You are a mercenary if:

a) You were a civilian recruited in the United States to perform military duties in another country without putting on the uniform. This includes service members who took their discharge overseas in order to remain as mercenaries. If the military has even one uniformed radio repairman and you are a radio repairman, the shoe fits

b) You are paid more than a comparable service member for doing the same job. This one is the one that lets foreigh nationals out of the definition. While a huge number of mercenaries do the same duties as service members, some, such as servers in chow halls are imported from places like The Philippines at extremely low wages. The low wages lets them off the hook. A mercenary is always paid more than a service member of the equivalent rating.

c) You are not a national or permanent resident of the country where you are employed. This one lets many translators off the hook because many of them have the appropriate nationality.

d) You are not an active member of the armed forces of any party to the conflict. The proof of thispudding is that the military would not allow you to draw two paychecks at once. This is a self-contained proof of guilt --- no military paycheck and it does not matter if you are in the inactive reserves.

e) You have not been sent by a country which is not a party to the conflict as a member of that country's armed forces. This would include people like peace monitors that the UN sends.

"If a mercenary is captured in combat, he will be treated as a PoW until a competent tribunal rules him a mercenary, or unlawful combatant. At that time, he will lose your PoW privileges, and he will be treated as a common criminal. In a worst case scenario, this means he will be facing execution. It could be relevant to note that the US has not endorsed the convention, and as such you cannot be ruled a mercenary under this definition if you’re captured in combat on US soil…"

The use of mercenaries by the US military is yet another shame brought on this country by those who see the US as above the law. This is not war, this is capitalist greed. The titular employers of mercenaries should be barred from all federal contracts for the simple reason that they are breaking international law. The companies are driven by corporate greed, not patriotism or other lofty ideals.

I am not nearly so concerned about whether mercenaries die in foreign countries without compensation for their families. That is the American Way --- profits over niceties. I am concerned that mercenaries are used to bypass Congress and enlarge the size of the active military in illegal and extramoral ways. We wail bitterly about mercenaries in other countries such as Somalia, but it is the USA who employs more mercenaries than the rest of the world combined.

If you want to see mercenaries as legal and moral patriots, then logic dictates that you see illegal immigrants the same way.

And for the several posters who try to blame this on Obama, forget it. While Dick Cheney was Vice President, he was critisized by the IG for taking millions of dollars in current and deferred compensation and not reporting it (or paying taxes on it.) The only respnse of the GOP was to change the rules so that deferred or indirect compensation, while still money, no longer needed to be reported. Until you can come up with a name and amounts at least equal in credibility to the IG report on Cheney, Republicans should sit down and shut up. They had their chance with Cheney and did nothing.

Soldiers do a job at the risk of injury or death, mercenaries do the same for a lot more money. I know several soldiers who were offered high paying contracts to do the same jobs for private companies and at least one of them took it.

I see no problem with it, if your country can afford it, makes the president look less bad. That way he can say that his predecessor did worse.

But at any rate, why are we still there? To kill Bin Laden again?

To protect Chinese miners! We owe them big time you know

You expect me to feel sorry for those dumb asses?

Highly paid mercenaries, nothing more or less. Same as Mad Mike in Africa in bygone days.

But at any rate, why are we still there? To kill Bin Laden again?

To protect Chinese miners! We owe them big time you know

The vine has a @!$%#ty posting format! Why is it marking me as spam?...and double posting me.....and not allowing links?

@Larry-2260635

Read - The New Pearl Harbor by David Griffin it will open your eyes with well researched information about 9/11. (along the lines of your first link)

My cousin's husband is in Iraq - they are doing it strictly for the money. I do not know what he does but I know he had to have special security clearance. He has signed on for 5 years, comes home rarely (even though they have small children).

I wouldn't wish death on him but I agree with the poster's that he is probably a mercenary and I can't respect that - he could have a job in the US, but they want a LOT of money - it's their choice but I think it's bad karma.

david-475776,

I did my hitch, probably well before you were born. I've never made any assumptions about the military service of those whom I incidentally interact with, but I've had many Gen XYZers make such assumptions about me, usually totally mistaken. Go figure. I'm always somewhat puzzled by a demand for respect that is shrouded in total contempt - please tell me just how that is supposed to work.

I don't have the facts at hand to dispute your assertions here, but it would seem that you know what you're talking about (to some extent), and so I acknowledge your points (also to some extent). I fail to reconcile what you've pointed out here with the pattern of letting contractors such as Blackwater's people (and let's face it - there have been others besides) completely off the hook. How is that supposed to further organizational goals?

There are those who think it misguided to hold any US service member responsible for the deaths of anyone who could even remotely be construed to be an enemy combatant under almost any circumstances, and this is where I take exception (along with my previously made points). I realize that, as our CiC did not take any responsibility for his actions, it's problematic to hold enlisted people (or contractors) to a similar standard, but...what's your alternative? I pose this not as a challenge, but as an invitation to constructive dialogue.

contractors are being way overpaid. I dont give a @!$%# what they are doing in a 3rd world country fighting a fight they cant win. And won't. I had a high school friend take a contractors position. It cost him his family. But he made $120,000 on our tax paying dime. Thought he was worth it. lol. He came back thinking he was god almighty because he just ripped us off. Well that was until I told him to stfu or he would find out what a real fight would be like. He shut up real quick.

Blackwater? and all the contractors are the biggest waste of tax paying dime anyone can think of. In fact no one knows where the millions went. They need to get the hell out of their and drop some real bombs.

On another note...many weapons(illegal) that are being sold on the street today, via craiglist and etc. are from blackwaters and former contractors. Fact!

I dont even know how to answer this because you have absolutely no facts or logic to back up anything you have spewed out of your uncorroborated nonsensical mind.

I have said time and time again that contractors are cheaper than fielding a military support equivalent. I have done the cost analysis, hell I have even been a COTR for a huge State Department protection contract. Taxpayers SAVE almost 1/2 of what it would cost for the military to do the same job.

There is absolutely NO evidence that illegal guns are due to Blackwater, absolutely NONE. All their weapons are registered with the ATF - even the ones that are flown overseas for use by their employees. You are probably referring to a few AKs (16-18 actually) that were seized by the ATF a few years ago because they were used by employees during the Afghanistan elections by low pro teams to ensure that citizens could vote unhindered by the Taliban but didnt want them to stick out as soft targets. It was an oversight. Even companies like Apple have made mistakes. Learn your source material before talking out your ear.

So these are mostly department of defense contractors.

Where does the department of defense get its funding?

So are we really out of Iraq or is the President playing a shill game?

Are some of you people serious? Well I am over here because there is no jobs back home. The liberals are too busy destroying cities with protest like what happened to Oakland, costing taxpayers more money. But they don't see that! Yes I am well aware of all dangers, the risks involved, and my family seperation. Get your facts straight, this isn't a tax free job, we are exempt to paying taxes to a certain amount, then we pay like everyone else. I paid more taxes when I earned less as a US Marine then most of our Country! I also put my life on the line for what? To have you liberal people bad mouth me and the Military! You want to reduce the size of the Military as Obama stated he wants to accomplish, but where will these men and women find jobs??? Well I'm waiting Liberals! So I chose to support my family, pay off my debt and save our home by working as a Contractor over in the Middle East. I know sounds selfish to provide for my family instead of having us on Government Assistance, but wait my wife was employed so we didn't qualify for any help! Plus heaven forbid that I want to feed my family too! Yes I am a Former U.S. Marine working over here getting paid what I am actually worth, but I have another suprise for you Liberal Idiots, I don't work for a US Contractor, I work for an Arab Company! Paid in foreign currency! If it wasn't for this company my family would be out in the street, or living in a shelter! So get off your high horses, and think for just one minute, if I could get a job in the States, and get paid what I was actually worth or even a salary, I could support my family with, that I would choose to come back out here to be seperated from those I love? I DON'T THINK SO!!! Remember NAFTA took companies out of the country, but who enacted that? That's right Clinton! Repeal NAFTA and bring our jobs back home, then we can all come home and work in our communities once again.

WHAT TOTAL BS MOST OF YOU wrote. IF the military had enough trained and competent people, they would not hire contractors. Contractors are not Mercs, you people watch WAY to much TV.

If you wussys would do 12-14 hours a day 7 days a week for a year with no break (except for 1 hour for lunch), live in a sand bag bunker with 6 other guys, use a portable sh!tter 50 meters away and shower once a week, you would cry your eyes out about unfair working conditions. What POS you people are.

Do you really think that we leave the comfort of our home and families for a whopping $120k tax free a year? What the hell do you think a persons labor is worth? Damn, if you had to do an 84 hour work week, the majority of you would cry and demand to get double time.

I was active duty Army for 21 years. When I went into Bosina to stop the slaughter going on, Haliburton took a muddy field (knee deep mud like you see in pictures of the Russian Front in World War II) and built a camp with flush toilets and showers. We actually got cooked fresh food. Try eating Army chow for 3 months...if you have the stomach for it...wimps and you will appreciate what CIVILIANS can do that the Army can not.

After 9/11, I became a contractor because I have a skill that most 18 to 25 year olds do not. I went into Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan and other places because the Army does not have the skill I do. Countless soldiers are alive because of contractors like me. But hey, you don't give a damn about the other families' soldiers, so why should you care about us?

I tell you POS one thing, IF you think you have the guts to take getting shot at and shelled for a whopping $120K, then you take your skills and see if you can even get a job as a "Merc".

By the way, we make you do a piss test before you get hired, so I suspect 95% of you whiners will not qualify for a job with people like me.

David Wellman, david-475776, I did my hitch, probably well before you were born.

I will explain this just one moretime. As a young kid during High School, I received my Selective Service Card (in hind sight I should have ran to Canada). Became Field Artillery, then was told that I volunteered to become a LRRP/Ranger. At the very end of Vietnam, we were calling in airstrikes at the Ho Chi Minh Trail near Plei Can so that the rest of the US Military and the US Embassy could unarse Vietnam.

After returning home, working in a Service Station (make money for food, rent, etc.), going to College, I came back into the US Military as an Officer (idealistically thinking I could change things). After all the training and education, I was teaching Nuclear Physics (Weapons), Missiles, etc. at the School House. And for Real World Experience was assigned to the INF (Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces). This was cut short as most of us realized that the INF would soon disappear. I became "Middle East" Qualified learning Farsi, since we got kicked out of Iran in 1979, as I did not want to become USSR Qualified (more of a chance of Combat). This is when I was offered to either become US Military Asymmetric Warfare "Middle East" Qualified or resign my US Military Officer Commission. This is when I became involved with the US Military Training Teams attached to SAD/SOG and sent to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, later redeployed to Pakistan/Afghanistan to train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to defeat the USSR 40th Army Occupation (so I ended up fighting directly against the USSR anyway, as the US Military Training Teams accompany those trained into Combat.). To make me of more use to them (US Military) I attended many of the other schools above LRRP/Ranger, as well as College Arabic at Egypt and College Islam at Egypt. This was not that unusual as at that time there were about 500 of us (repeatedly seeing each other during the schools at the same and some deployments (missions)) going thru the "pipeline" after the Failure at Desert One (our predecessors).

As far as the Political Blame Game attempts, example: Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, etc.. All I can say is that there are many more US Contractors other than Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, etc, that make more money than all of them combined, and guess what, most are Democratic Party affiliated (certain individuals). This is a hint: After the President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military of the 500 of us, many that were RIF'ed joined the Foreign Security Contractors as employed and given Diplomatic Immunity by the US Department of State (do you see a pattern here or do I have spell this out as President Clinton and SOS Clinton). Unlike the movies and propaganda we already know the pecking order; unlike the movie "Green Zone" we do not kill our potential future candidates (US Army Rangers), those that will do that are the Foreign Security Contractors with US Department of State Diplomatic Immunity (something Blackwater, aka Xe, does not have).

This is why from firsthand experience, everytime someone starts with their Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater (Xe) partisan cronism I already know just how wrong they are in attempting (and failing) to deflect the blame from over three years ago.

MOSinEUR,

It is just like I said 92% of the US Civilians have NEVER Served.

So with their Academic Idealistic nonsense they attempt to denegrate those with Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks Experience.

And some people wonder why most of us are going to be laughing our arses off when we finally get to go back on Retirement again (I am going to put a big magic marker line thru the Recall To Active Duty part of my Retirement Orders).

With the way Generation X and Generation Y is Educated (Mindset), I seriously doubt that any will actually survive their first year after we go back on Retirement (already happened to some of Generation X as Killed In Action).

MAC, RILEY, and DAVID : don't let the seditionists get you down. Don't bother trying to explain either. I'm ex-RVN, and people 20-30 years ago didn't want to understand that either. The people complaining in here are the first to call for no military, and the first to scream "save me!" when the $hit hits their fan. Pathetic.

I'd like to see any one of them step up and volunteer for duty- but they never will- "let the peons die--for ME!" is their motto. Their lack and belief of historical knowledge is abysmal.

David- I am constantly amazed by your in-depth outlook and knowledge of your subject. I take it you are in-country now ---- my son is in Kandahar, cold and dusty, except when it rains - then mud! I know it's not "necessary" to say "thank you" to a serving member these days, but one thing I have never been is "PC", so thank YOU.

After a couple of years working for private companies, a person can earn enough money to set himself up for life. It beats oilfield, construction, truck driving and many other dangerous lines of work. The only bad thing is that they usually become republicans.

It takes guts and brains to be a successful capitalist, whether you are a mercenary or an investor.

If you lack either, you probably will not be successful.

David, I know you are getting "short". Do stay on the vine once you get back to the world. There are few people that have any idea of what is going on in the world. The rest seem to only get opinionsfrom their professors trying to get a sympathy f_uck from some 19 year old freshman.

Owweee...look at me, I am anti war, come over to my house tonight and I will explain "piece" to you...

Hiring "contractors" does a couple of things:

1) hides the real cost of war financially, and

2) hides the real body count.

And 3) makes a couple of huge contract companies very, very rich.

Ritdog, you are right on target.

BUT I must add, I really wonder what country many of these blogs come from. I find it hard to believe that Americans are really as stupid as many of these blogs make out.

I wish that there would be a color code for non US bloggers. For example, Red for China and Yellow for Europe.

Well mos, sad to say that americans are among the best educated stupid people in the world. Most of us have received more education than we have the ability to digest.

If I May?

Was there a deliberate exclusion of the cost and profit? The history and growth, profit and compensation seems these topics never crossed the mind of the writer.

Not so bad but the cost and where the source of funds come to keep this private Mafia viable? A total exclusion of the cost so what is the cost to maintain these war profiteers and their mob?

A pattern of the use of paid mercenaries in history yes very similar though they don't like that word.

Ritdog-908299 - my son is in Kandahar, cold and dusty, except when it rains - then mud!

Well, I guess that is better than the current about 7 degrees F up here above 6,000 feet not counting the wind chill. I was not joking about us conducting US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare (technical mountain climbing) and Arctic/Winter Warfare. We have been doing this for quite a while now after years of consecutive tours living with the locals to gain the trust of the locals.

I would invite your son up here for a visit to see a completely different side to this War; but, that would only unnecessarily risk his life (not to mention high altitude sickness). I previously I had my C4I MH60 at Bagram AFB pick up some from the 3rd, 101st, and a USMC MEU up here during the summer, after a couple of days they were begging to leave; during the winters it is worse as most of the FOBs/COBs up here withdraw and shut down (some then are occupied by the Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc., my Teams have to interdict them before they reach the Afghan villages and then head south.). The most difficult part from experience during Operation Cyclone are the high speed wind vortexes that suck aircraft into the mountain faces, as to why we have minimal or no air support; in order to even use helicopters we have to secure the mountain ridges of the valleys to prevent ambushes and the helicopters will give our positions away for miles; this is something they know and we know from experience (I write this here just in case, so someone else does not have to learn the hard way (unnecessary deaths).).

I will relay your thanks to my Teams, they have kept me out of trouble (alive) this long, as well as accomplishing some of my not so bright plans (hindsight).

Just a word to your son, just like I told my younger Brother In Law, Do Not get Associated with us as you will become a potential future candidate. As to what happened to my younger Brother In Law (as to why he was conducting certain operations at Iraq to gain some operational experience and recently returned stateside).

MOSinEUR,

I do know that when we finally return back to Germany for our Debriefings and After Action Reports, we are going to have one big arse party before my Joint Task Force is disbanded. Then all of us will in pairs take the flight Stateside for Final Outprocessing and Retirement Briefings. Some of us are considering accepting offered (earned) German, French, British, etc. Citizenship.

@ culheath:

Your BS meter must be set to avoid anyone with background on the subject. Have you dealt much with military-contract bids, funding request, contractor deployments in support of OIF/OEF, military guidelines for armed and unarmed contractors assigned to those area of operations?? Yeah... I guess I am just speaking total BS?

I have several friends who are contractors who conduct intelligence analysis support. Unarmed. Working very long hours and barely receiving the pay that they should be getting. I assisted with their pre-deployment training, medical screening, rules of engagement, country study brief..... Yet aparently I have no clue as to the workings when it comes to contractors?

Hiring outside contractors is a necessity.

Hiring outside contractors means we will be paying much, much more. So you are good with that?

Of those, 25,287, or about 22 percent of the employees, were American citizens, with 47 percent Afghans and 31 percent from other countries.

Mercenaries, you say??

The biggest contractor in terms of war zone deaths is apparently the defense giant L-3 Communications

Communications personnel are Mercenaries now?

Other American companies with a high number of fatalities are Supreme Group, a catering company, with 241 dead through the end of 2011; Service Employees International, another catering company, with 125 dead;

Caterers are Mercenaries as well?

They all knew what they were getting into, and did so voluntarily.

That doesn't make them Mercenaries, especially considering almost HALF are LOCAL CITIZENS.

Why are we still there? I heard someone say they killed Bin Laden.

Actually, they said they tried to get a doctor to get a sample of DNA from a suspect living in an unarmed compound but the doctor wasnt able to. So they invaded an ally's territory anyways. Dropped Seals on the roof of an unarmed compound. Shot someone on sight in a darkened room - no id, ON SIGHT. Took the body away and dumped it in the ocean.

But they said it was Bin Laden. Not the Seals that shot the guy, they won't let anyone talk to the Seals, you have to talk to someone that says they talked to the Seals. Pentagon people, that is who you have to talk to. You know, the same ones that told us about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman.

Yep, get your Bin Laden story straight from the Pentagon's special department - the Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman Department (snark).

But at any rate, why are we still there? To kill Bin Laden again?

I have little sympathy for them, they chose their path

You haven't got the first clue about Afghanistan, do you?

Any idea what the average ANNUAL wage in Afghanistan actually is? Any idea?

$300. That's it. A YEAR.

Now, "Foxy", if you were offered 12 times your ANNUAL income, would you turn it down?

Exactly.

Everyone is so quick to judge what they believe contractors are. No one in this thread realizes that most of these people served in the US military for next to nothing and now have an opportunity to make good money to do what they were trained to do and support their families.

If you are going to complain about contractors, stand in line and volunteer for US military service because, unless you want the draft to come back where you are picked to go to the front lines and serve in the next war, there are not enough military to do the jobs contractors are doing, period. Its either the draft or contractors..pick one.

Contractors actually save the US Government money, because each combat soldier requires 13-20 support personnel in country, and out of these support personnel more than half are E5-E9 paygrade. That is over 150k per month whereas each contract company bills the US gov around 45-50k for everything (the contractors themselves making only 1/3 of that on the high end).

If you are going to complain about contractors, stand in line and volunteer for US military service because, unless you want the draft to come back where you are picked to go to the front lines and serve in the next war, there are not enough military to do the jobs contractors are doing,

Wow, now there's some doublethink. Why could it be that there are not enough sodliers? Perhaps because they get paid nowhere near what the mercs do? How dare you hold everyone hostage to a phantom draft simply because the government makes it rain on everyone but the common soldiers. And you pulled all those numbers out of your ass.

Whether they are mercs or not, they are profiting off of war. I do not think it is right and I can't say I feel sorry for them.

Mercenaries may not be the exact word to use even though I often use the same word for "contractors". Mercenary would technically be if the "contractors" were fighting for the Afghan or Iraqi army and not for the US army.

Nonetheless, use of contractors has made the business of war very profitable and if I were a soldier I would not re-enlist and instead take a job that paid 5-10X more with these "contractors"............someday we will pay the price for making wars so neat and spiffy clean manageable by paid profiteers.

These contractors are brave and patriotic. Yes there are the 5% who give them a bad name, but from EXPERIENCE, they serve proudly and with honor.

These men and women do a dangerous job, why shouldn't they get paid. Should they do it for free. This is not like the movies. They are good people who do a job that is dangerous and it takes a lot of guts to do what they do.

Amazing isn't it? Corporations finding a niche to exploit the tax payer via wars we fight. In 1990 this would have been unheard of. Downsizing after the cold war forced some of this but not all.

Imagine the hell congress would pay if these mercenaries were US Forces. The head count on US KIA in Iraq and Afghanistan would likely have doubled, making for more pressure to withdraw and bring more fire to the Bush and Obama administrations. In the case of Iraq and all of that oil, it would it would have inflamed public opinion MUCH more than it has or is today.

The Roman Empire in it's later years employed Mercenaries and this contributed to fall of the Empire (along with corruption in government & politics, crumbling societal morales and economic failures).

Not a very pretty picture for the World. Things move much faster today.

Wow, now there's some doublethink. Why could it be that there are not enough sodliers? Perhaps because they get paid nowhere near what the mercs do? How dare you hold everyone hostage to a phantom draft simply because the government makes it rain on everyone but the common soldiers. And you pulled all those numbers out of your ass.

Contractors get paid what they are worth after serving as E3s and E4s in the military doing the most dangerous job in the world for 4 to 8 years. Soldiers HAVE to serve a minimum of 3 to 4 years and most have to have seen combat (combat action ribbon) in order to get a job as a contractor fool...

So your whole doublethink idea is a wash. And NO I didnt pull those numbers out of my ass buddy, Im a COTR for a DOS WPS contract and served as a Marine for 6 years. I know the numbers and the only thing thats been pulled out of anyones ass is your logic.

I would rather people get a job as a contractor than sit on their fat ass and collect from "Big Gov't"!! So many opinions based on stupidity in here! How the hell do you think America got out of the Great Depression?? Profiting from War that's how. Except the "Contractors" were on US soil building tanks, planes, bullets, packaging food items and transporting this stuff via contract ships and Merchant Marines. Our Government may be paying contractors 3-4X more than what the average soldier would get doing the same job, but the taxpayer doesn't have to pay for that contractors pension or retirement benefits. It's a simple, short term fix to save money in the long run. And to think Military budget cuts are coming fast to cut even more troops and equipment and make room for the opportunistic contractor to profit!

how right you are and thanks for sticking up for contractors . riley1759556.

@AirThief, you said it best. Mercenaries or not, these people are profiting from a war - and one that was based on lie to begin with.

It's called "envy". People think that they heard from a friend of a friend who knows someone that is a "contractor" and went overseas and made "thousands of dollars"...

They don't know the hours that these individuals work, the lack of support they receive from the US State Department and Defense Department. They are dependent on their own company that sent them over there. Get wounded, injured, or even killed? It may cost the US family of that American citizen to have the US government fly the body back. You get wounded from enemy fire or indirect fire while working as a cook on a US base? You may get a bill from the Defense Department for medical treatment, fuel costs if you are flown out on medical evac to Germany, immediate loss of remaining salary and position, and left with nothing. Most contractors have to take all their current medicaitons with them because the US military medical staff at that location will not issue them any support, unless it is life threatening. The only thing that they are allowed to do is access the dining facility and enter the PX. People here have no issue with this story because they believe that these people are "over-paid" so they are envious of their paycheck and resentful that a person is offered a significant paycheck that somehow their life is now 10x less worth than average joe? Yet they work constant hours, no days off, no weekends and holidays, and must be at their job all times. The difference between the "green suiter" aka service member vs the contractor is that the contractor is getting a bigger paycheck because he/she has little support and rates compensation. The compensation is also based on approved pay scales which must be reviewed by the US State Department. If you think they are over-paid then blame the DOD and US State Department, but US government employees are making a huge paycheck themselves. A lot of people have no clue to the situation over there or how it was in Iraq. Just ramble some comments and hope for the best.

Foxy-SEAL

They are in a war zone, assisting the US military, Whether they are cooks or drivers or body guards, they are mercenaries, using the war as a way to get private jobs. I have little sympathy for them, they chose their path. We shouldn't still be there anyway. F--k these people.

No Foxy, it's your comment that f--king disgusts me.

Foxy.....you couldnt be more right. Like a gun..no one made them do it. They did it for the money. They were suckered in for a lot of money. Shouldnt have ANY sympathy for these folks. They knew exactly what they were getting into. Just more waste.

Did you all forget Obama's speech about needing a "civilian" force in additon to the Armed forces? These guys cost a lot more than an ordinary soldier so what's up with all this. Smoke and mirrors to show he is "ending" the wars or something more sinister?
If you don't ask yourself those questions then perhaps you won't mind the potential aftermath in our own country!

True, shaking my head. All it is smoke and mirrors. Problem is the contractors were already their and so was the money. Already spent by Bush and his cronies(blackwater). Did you think he was going to bring these jokers home after we just gave them millions? Huh? Stay their and get our monies worth is what everyone was thinking at this time. The only thing sinister is the weapons and vehicles and pay for the contractors were 3x more costly than it should have been.

If you went to Iraq as a private contractor to earn a PROFIT off of the murder of innocent people who had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 then you are a mercenary and should be in prison for violating international law.

There was nothing right, just, or patriotic about the war in Iraq. Our military men and women were forced to go under threat of court martial, but contractors went to get rich and that was the only reason. Haliburton sold 10,000 meals a day to Marines that never existed, how do you justify that kind of greed during war time? American contactors took US taxpayer money to build a 'waterpark" in the Green Zone, DURING WAR TIME!!!

Those of you who are trying to justify the use of private contractors are clueless to the future implications of this process, if war becomes (it already has) a for profit industry then INDUSTRY will be starting a war a week to earn a profit.

JP

Nobody will talk to those seals that captured Bin Laden. They were killed a few weeks later in Afghanistan. Their helicopter was shot down on the way to rescue military personnel in a gun fight.

If you went to Iraq as a private contractor to earn a PROFIT off of the murder of innocent people who had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 then you are a mercenary and should be in prison for violating international law.

The murder of innocent people were isolated incidents. Nisoor Square was one of only a few incidents where innocent people were caught in a crossfire and the investigators there admitted that they found numerous 7.62 shell casings but no AKs. Interesting seeing as the contractors you love to hate use 5.56.

In addition, the firm Blackwater was given high remarks by State Department officials that never lost a man they were tasked with protecting but suffered numerous casualties by insurgents. You remember those? The guys who killed every American, contractor or military, civilian or politician they could get their hands on? Who would you rather have protecting you over there? Blackwater or Iraqi Nationals? The same ones who were police and Al Qaeda informants at the same time.

There was nothing right, just, or patriotic about the war in Iraq. Our military men and women were forced to go under threat of court martial, but contractors went to get rich and that was the only reason.

Negative. I was a Marine and stationed in Ramadhi. Everyone who signs up for a combat MOS in the military KNOWS exactly what they will face. There are NO lies in AIT or Ranger School. There are no misconceptions in training. No one sells you a bill of sale that you arent painfully aware of. A soldiers job is to kill. Period.

Contractors went to Iraq because they had spent 4,5,6,7,or 8 years as an E3/E4 making pennies on the dollar. They used the skills they learned in the military and if a Private Military Company accepted their resume due to combat experience and performance as well as passing a WPPS course, they eventually made what they were worth.

Haliburton sold 10,000 meals a day to Marines that never existed, how do you justify that kind of greed during war time? American contactors took US taxpayer money to build a 'waterpark" in the Green Zone, DURING WAR TIME!!!

I Googled the event you mentioned here and couldnt find specifics regarding it but there was some corruption. You can almost certainly factor this in when they won a NO BID contract because there were NO other companies that could provide this logistical support that existed. Blame your government for this choice. They were the ones that awarded the contract. In addition, KBR was fined and the federal gov recouped some of their losses.

Those of you who are trying to justify the use of private contractors are clueless to the future implications of this process, if war becomes (it already has) a for profit industry then INDUSTRY will be starting a war a week to earn a profit.

Like Ive stated, their arent nearly enough soldiers to fill these jobs so either lobby your congressman to reinstate the draft or realize that contracting companies are a BID process. Those who bid the job, which receives audits and reviews from the federal government, only get awarded if it meets expectations. The cost is FAR FAR less than fielding the support troops necessary to do both. Ive done the cost comparative analysis as Ive worked for a PMC and been a US Marine. It is MUCH cheaper to pay for contractors.

In addition the implications are negligible. Contracting has been used for centuries. Hell this country was fought with contractors since the Revolution. There are no implications that havent already been metered out centuries ago.

Everyone on this vine can blame mercs., contractors, military or anyone else that is out there. It is Obamas fault for this crap. He could have pulled everyone out of Afghanistan like he did in Iraq. This is like him spend more money on a war that should not be happening. No more killing of anyone except Afghanistan people by their own. No loss there!!! Pull all out of Afghanistan.

i work with a few guys just out of the military. i have friends in the military, out of, and just getting out of talking about one thing, considering an offer they were made doing gravy contract work, driving, cooking, otherr types of stuff. These are people, who from way i am hearing it, will be out of harms way, no chance of anything happening, and making big bucks. It's all just bullsh!t being fed to our troops to keep the war going under a civilan guise. they offer you a job you take it, or you dont. The money that is offered, is not worth the promises being broken. ALL of these people i personally know, are walking right back into what they were being pulled out from, and with who's backing? cant blame this one on Bush, and he cant act like he never knew any word of this until now.

And yes, as i said before, these guys are actually told they would be drivers, cooks, consruction, and so on. They are honest people being lied to about what they are getting into.

Mercenaries are contractors. And if no one makes a profit, then war is a total waste.

Support the Mercenaries! Love the US or leave!

Yeah, let's do revert back to the isolationism standard way of thinking.. pull out all the troops in Afghanistan and hope for the best. Forget the thousands of supporters who now have been associated with the US, NATO, and ISAF forces. As we demand to pull everyone and anyone out of Afghanistan and Iraq, be sure to wave to those individuals who may see the AK47 stuck in their face by their local wanna be hardliner before they pull the trigger. As soon as you pull the troops out our "Pakistan ally" will reinvent, rearm, retraining, and redeploy the Pakistan Taliban to support the re-claiming of Afghanistan from those areas that were deemed secure.

The ignorance in these comments are amazing. When you go into a building and you see the red or blue uniforms, you are going into a building being protected by contractors. Security is just a word. I went to Afghanistan to protect US convoys. After many years in the military, I EARNED a honorable discharge. Live a honest life. But someone can be so quick to label something they do not understand. Or just see news on tv. I did not lose my honor. I worked with brave US citizens who were there to protect our military. Do some real research instead of just assuming you all know exactly what is going on there. There is way more to it than you will ever know.

happy camper, you dont seem very happy

No they are not mercenaries.

They pump fuel, hammer nails, drive freight, serve food, civilian jobs. Many were out of work here so they went there.

I suppose there may be a few mercenaries, but very few - if any.

Sure they knew there was a risk, but for some it is an opportunity to make a hefty chunk of change quickly. Many were approaching retirement, and lost all they had to the fallen economy.

Life's a bitch. Guess they shouldn't have chosen to work in a war zone.

gasoline tanker truck drivers going from Kuwait to Green Zone in Iraq twice a week were making 100-125K a year. some people think the risk/reward is worth it.

you can be killed in New York City at night if you walk down the wrong side street for one dollar.

the striking parallel of the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire and USA continues on its merry way!

*No they are not mercenaries.

They pump fuel, hammer nails, drive freight, serve food, civilian jobs. Many were out of work here so they went there.

I suppose there may be a few mercenaries, but very few - if any.

Sure they knew there was a risk, but for some it is an opportunity to make a hefty chunk of change quickly. Many were approaching retirement, and lost all they had to the fallen economy.*

Ahh, a voice of reason. Some people need to look up the word "mercenary" and find out what they're talking about before they talk. A cook is not a mercenary. To say "Life's a bitch. They shouldn't have chosen to work in a war zone" is not just cruel, but ignorant. People have to make a living. Would some of you be happier if those killed while trying to support a family had decided to stay in the States and sell dope to YOUR kids instead? Christ, have a little compassion for your fellow countrymen. If you can't muster at least that, maybe you should be living among those trying to kill your countrymen. Sounds like you have more in common with them than us.

I suppose it's ok to compensate all the slugs on welfare, unemployment, etc who do nothing but drain the system, though.

These contractors are hard-worked, red-blooded, patriotic Americans, many of which go over seas to help in the effort to rebuild. They put their lives on the line just as much as the American Soldier in order to bring necessary supplies, rations, etc. to keep the machine running.

That is probably one of the most obtuse statements I have ever read. I have spoken with thousands in the military, and the primary reason that most of the AA, AR, and NG enlisted is because they couldn't find a job in civilian life, or they needed the extra money, and had no other viable alternative, and most contractors are no different. Unemployment in this country is well above 10%, because the government intentionally disregards those who have never received any unemployment, the self-employed, those who have run out of benefits, and those who simply stopped looking for work. Our jobs were shipped overseas to save companies labor costs, and our government allowed it to happen. IMHO, these contractors are just as deserving as the military or any other individual who is an American citizen. The military itself hires those contractors just save money, fulfill a need, and avoid liability. Yet, our military has many serving who are not even American citizens and are just attempting to gain U.S. citizenship legally. Are they military or mercenaries? The real irony is that some are even being deported after they have honorably served this country. It has come to the point in this country that if you don't wear a military uniform(or sometimes when you do), you are not a politician, you believe in the right to own firearms, you are religious, or you think our Constitutional rights are being dessimated, that you are considered to be non-patriotic, or worse yet a subverter or terrorist. Let me assure you that some of our most patriotic individuals in this country have never served a day in the military, never ran for political office, own guns, believe in God, and uphold the Constitution. If, under the Carter administration, our politicians can legislate Social Security benefits for those who never paid one cent into that system, and, as per the Obama tenure with the Affordable Health Care Act approval(wait until 2014), you can add another 8-12 million people to the Medicare/Medicaid roles, and at the same time talk about cutting the benefits of both programs, why should contractors be considered unpatriotic or money hungry, when they are paying taxes into the system. Government employees, per the Federal Employees Compensation Act, and the U.S. military have a very lucrative pension and healthcare benefits progam designed just for them, which is paid for by the taxpayers, but that is never mentioned. Your comments, among others, reveals precisely why we as a country are failing our citizens and failing as a democracy. We have simply stopped caring about PEOPLE! When will we ever learn that we are ALL aboard the same sinking ship. I guess the real question is, "Will those controlling the ship go down with the ship, or will they throw the less fortunate overboard before the ship hits bottom"? If people would take a little time to educate themselves, that question would answer itself. We as a society no longer worship the Creator of all things, we worship or self-created idol, and that idol is called money.

I believe something similar was done in the civil war here in the US. If you had the money you could hand your son or husbands body over to a new type of professional called and "embalmer" who from an field paid undertaker (risked getting shelled or shot at the front line) would collect the bodies. If you wanted they would put the body in a preservation coffin or special airtight soldered case even with a glass top. If not your beloved was gathered from the pile by regulars and came back Army parcel in a wooden box and would reek quite badly by the time you got him home again.

Are you serious Happy Camper?
These mercenaries cost a lot more per man/woman than a soldier does, so why do we have them? The administration wants to further cut the defense budget while lobbing bombs and drones all over the place that cost millions each. Claiming war is different now and we don't need as many bases or soldiers. YET, we have more and more "contractors".
Have none of you stopped to figure out what is happening here? Shrink our army, let guns to to mexican drug cartels, bring in more and more "immigrants" to go to disneyland. Give me a break. WAKE UP people.

Hmm? Contractors cost more that soldiers do? What rank are you referring to? My skills are much higher than a Private, but I get paid much less than a Field Grade Officer.

Let me see...contractors can get fired, on the spot, because the customer (government) is unhappy with the work done. Ever try to fire a soldier? It takes months.

Soldiers get hurt and they get VA health benefits. Contractors get hurt and they go home to unemployment.

Soldiers can cry to mommy when the chow is bad or the living conditions suck, contractors can love it or go home.

How many contractors spent their own time and money to make a bombed out building a better place to live only to have some Officer come in and kick out the contractor with out so much as a "kiss my ass"?

The Dirt Bags on this blog that say that we get what we deserve, are the same ones that say that the police get what they deserve because they knew what they were getting into, but then cry when the cops are not there to protect them from an evil neighbor who allows their dog to crap on their lawns.

Happy- you have no idea what you are talking about. Contractors are not paid killers. When you see a security guard, they are a hired contractor. Military contractors work in many facets. Not the $10 an hour guy. Most have many years of honorable military service. And they are specialized in certain jobs. Like a back surgeon is not going to do brain surgery. They should be paid accordingly. I guess you are someone who never risked their life on a daily basis to protect a diplomat, or a high ranking official from another country. So maybe you should research what being a contractor entails before you base your judgments from Hollywood.

It's already tax free for military in Afgahnistan, was in Iraq too.

slight right, you are correct in name only, you are only slightly right. It is cheaper in the long run to hire contractors than it is military personnel. I know it is hard to fathom but the US govt doesn't do it to spend more money. There is no retirement, no medical, no food and housing for them or their family back home and when the contract is over, they are gone. Yes, we do make decent money but we are always on the edge of looking for another job. I am a contractor, and if I get killed while taking a tour over in the sand, my family does not get the life insurance a soldier would get. BTW, try getting life insurance from anybody if the Middle East is where your going to work.

regular guy, you say "it is cheaper in the long run to hire contractors..." isnt that what I said? "they allow us to keep our military ranks low during times of peace"...

Wow, isn't this kind of like hiring Al Capone's guys for Obama's "civilian" armed force?

In case no one has noticed it hasn't been peace time in about 10 years. But, the military is still being shrunk and the "contractors" increased. For the salary of a "contractor" we could have three more soldiers at least. Cost effective my Aunt Fanny.

We aren't paying thier salary. We are paying to thier company. If it is like most "temp" or outside labor, the person makes about 2/3 of what is paid to the company, probably less. So what is the real cost of each "contractor"? More importantly why do we have them again?

Yes it can be cheaper.

If a soldier dies the government pays $100,000 in death benefits plus unused leave and cost of burial and the like.

If a contractor dies they toss them in a box, fly them to the US and let someone else deal with it and the goverment has no further costs.

If a soldier is injured the government has to pay for that persons medical until they get better even if it takes a lifetime.

If a contractor gets injured its on them to pay for it.

News Flash....Active duty troops get tax breaks for service in combat zones (their pay is not taxable when they are in theatre. Its not just contractors. Active duty troops get free medicare care along with their dependants while contractors have to pay for theirs. With the cost of paying for medical care going up and combat injuries possibly requiring life time care along with a pension i can understand why they have contractors....

you sir need to have your head examined!!!!!! What do you want a 30 trillion deficit, the clown in the white house needs to go home and so do all of his playmates in washington, then lets get some real men and women who belive it is their duty and reasponsibilty to do the jobs correctly and in a mature manner.

yeah who do you suggest. One of the brothers of the previous clown? Oh I'm sorry you have cool-aid all over you! Jeese how callous of me not to notice. LMAO

yeah who do you suggest. One of the brothers of the previous clown? Oh I'm sorry you have kool-aid all over you! Jeese how callous of me not to notice. LMAO

You are one heck of a Political Crony spewing emotive uneducated nonsense.

All this is happening because: 1. President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military eliminated all the "Traditional Positions" previously performed by below minimum wage US Military Personnel in these areas: Logistics, Supply, Sea Air Land Transportation, Aircraft Vehicle Weapons Ship Submarine Facilities Maintenance, Food Service, Sanitation (Waste Disposal, Water Purification, Bathing and Laundry Services, etc.), Communications (including networking), etc. And do not tell me I do not know because I survived this mess while having to do a Mission at Somalia, Also creating problems was President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies (US Military ended up going in Blind to many Potentially Hostile Nations, example: When we went into Iraq to conduct Operation Desert Fox); 2. Increasing the numbers of US Civilians here (Afghanistan) as done by President Obama's August 2009 US Civilian Surge of a hundred thousand US Civilians. This put a significant strain on the US Military Resources, not to mention entire Platoons ending up providing Security to one or two of President Obama's US Civilians with these Platoons not avaliable to do their Original Missions, and becoming Static Fixed in Place Targets.

tryreality-1568930 - Nation building abroad is something we can't afford and all contractors need to come home now along with most Military Personel.

Tell President Obama to get the US out of the United Nations. UN Mission Iraq, Nation Building. UN Mission Afghanistan, Nation Building. UN Mission Somalia I and II, Nation Building.

It is already President Obama's stated Plan to throw 80,000 US Military on Unemployment during his Repeating of President Clinton's Mistake (Reduction In Forces of the US Military) and expecting a Different Result. There is also added to this the 27,000 US Military Personnel Returning from the Wars to be Thrown on Unemployment. And the 10,000 US Military Personnel returning from Germany after US Military Installations there are closed. Of course the number of US Civilians that provide support for the 80,000 are not counted as soon to also become Unemployed, as xxx,xxx US Civilians.

tryreality-1568930 - Bin Laden is dead, bring everyone home.

Once more the uninformed Demoncrap Emotive Opinion, as that was NOT our (US Military) Mission weeks after arriving here after the 9/11 2001 Attacks, that Mission was added as number 4 after President Bush amended the US No Assassination Policy, 2006, to allow the Termination of Osama Bin Laden.

tryreality-1568930 - With the Republicans pushing for endless tax breaks for the rich, we can't afford to burn the candle at both ends while our middle class and less fortunate struggle.

Liar, Liar Pants on Fire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSkv_29Rncg

Fact versus your fiction:

Actually, the wealthy are taxed more

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46313519/ns/business-personal_finance/

tryreality-1568930 - Vote Democrat across the board and we will see the American Dream within OUR Grasp.

Grasp your penis and start jerking off and dreaming. We cannot afford to have any US Political Parties promising things that they cannot deliver. 1. Ask yourself why President Obama did NOT reinstate the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the previous Depressions. The Current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc., 2.. Why did he cause the $1.2 Trillion Budget Deficit with his $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion Health Care Reform Act, instead of enacting something like President FDR's Universal Health Care For All US Citizens. This causing Budget Cuts to previously Budgeted US Programs to pay for the $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion., 3. Candidate Obama's Promise (Verbal Contract) to get US Military out of Iraq, not later than December 31, 2009. 16,000 minus 1,500 US Embassy Staff equals number US Military still at Iraq., 4. Telling US Military Good Job, then with other hand stabbing the US Military in the Back., 5. President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, that allowed Iran to do anything without US Interventions, result Iran backed Islamic Jihadists Overthrew US Allies, US Ally Saudi Arabia now surrounded, loss of Iraqis Oil, loss of Suez Canal, etc.. I can fill this whole page with Demoncrap screw ups.

And do not even attempt to deflect the blame, I can name who, what, were, why (motives), how many, when, etc..

david i agree with you on the clinton mess but remember sir it started after the first gulf war drawdown. i was a mid level military member that lost my position at the end of bush 1. also with the great republican holocaust of 1994 many more personnel and bases were soon gone. clinton held the white castle but newtnothing and his loser buddies controlled both houses of congress. it was definately a group effort without partiy lines. also sir please look into how we found out bin laden was in tora bora. the moderates in iran told us then following his escape bush 2 & cheney turned their backs on any iranian allies we had and subsequently quit looking for bin laden as well. the wealthy are taxed more as a total $$ amount but not a percentage. until we all serve equally in defense of our country, the dollars some pay versus the value of A life lost is way out of balance. during 2011 i made .00013333 of what romney made while he did no work by his own admission. i however work 56 - 60 hours in a 5 day workweek + any weekends or holidays available. i paid about 4 % less in effective taxes. also he transferred about 100 million tax free to his kids. my 2 sons serve now with one currently in afghanistan and the other has been in afghanistan once, iraq twice, and qatar twice, & uae once. none of the 5 romney kids have ever been there. i am a vet with a degree, have kept current with occupational education upgrades for the last 27 years so i am neither uneducated, lazy, or unpatriotic. i agree with much of what you say but i also saw a steep slide slowed or halted by many of obama's policies. he doesn't have the complete power to put in place the required policies to halt many of the problems we now face. also there were many policies put in place to correct some of the problems we faced but they remain unfunded due to the house of reps inaction since only they can introduce spending bills. also since he isn't getting much positive republican input he is severely limited in what he can do. many of his policies, especially the healthcare reform act, were diluted so much just to get something in place that could be upgraded as problems arose that more unforseen problems came along that would not have if the original bill had been passed. for instance look at the ridiculous fiasco this past week that would not been a problem with the single payer option. we do have a single payer system that works for medicare recipients because the greatest generation doesn't want it messed with. there are problems with the system but congress should work to fix the problems not change the whole system. big insurance didn't want it because the 30% they gouge consumers for would be eliminated. it would not have translated in a 30% premium savings but there most definately been a substantial saving from removing this parasite. this act has not kept premiums from rising but they rose at a much lower pace than predicted. anytime military action is taken, everyone capable should serve. if physically unable there is always the VA hospital & the USO. otherwise everyone else should be activated. secondly taxes should be raised on everyone to cover the expenses incurred by this action. we had pay as you go but that somehow died after the 2000 election. the saudi royals may be allies but with 19 of 20 hijackers from there i don't see much US support there. also it was their fear of saddam going into their country as well as the other surrounding states after kuwait that made gulf 1 coalition so easy to create. to bush 1's credit we got cheaper oil for several years as part of that action. sadly though those same enemies of saddam wouldn't accept removal as the end result so he had to stop before the mission was complete. if you look at the deficit addition under obama the bulk of it was from extending the bush tax cuts for eveyone, not just the super rich. a policy that was fought against by our republican foes in congress. we were promised jobs if we extended the tax cuts for the job creators. where are the jobs from those job creators? obama has created 3.7 M jobs as per the facts but we are still waiting for even one from anything passed in the house of representatives. as for the unemployed returning vets get your representatives to pass the american jobs act with full funding in place and with the infrastructure rebuilding that is needed we will have many more than 80,000 jobs available. the 2009 reform act (stimulus bill ) created alot of jobs here in Pa because our governor accepted the monies provided. i know of at least 30 multi year longterm projects that were funded using the monies from it. our employment rate here has been lower than the national average since it was signed into law. when you check the facts as you call them sir, please make sure they have 2 supporting references and come from a qualified non partisan source. anything can be called a fact, that doesn't mean it is a verified truthful fact.

Isn't it funny- the Republicans come on tv and say we're broke, we need to stop spending on the poor- but they say we must realize it's not a tax problem. No new taxes...

But when it comes to military adventures, Bush style, they find all kinds of cash for Cheney's friends and all their other military contractor friends. I'm sure the Republicans would approve new taxes for that in a heartbeat.

Troll- thank you and thank your sons for me. And thanks for your post.

the troll , ". i am a vet with a degree"

Did they ever teach you the structure of an essay when you got your degree? You know paragraphs would have made your line of Bull much easier to read.

I have the utmost respect for the military because they are the ones who take an oath to fight for this country. But I also believe they are not being used for our protection. They are being conned into fighting Wars for the controllers.

Iraq was fought on a lie and the politicians who convinced a Nation to attack another nation over a lie should be sent to the world court for War Crimes. But our arrogance as a do no wrong Empire (as the Roman empire was)keeps what they preach from affecting them.

So thousands of young and old Americans Thousands of Iraq's are dead because of a LIE a conspiracy. We were all conned and we continue to be conned. Psychopaths run the world and we keep blinding following them to War and destruction because they tell us they will protect us if we make the ultimate sacrifice. Funny thing is they never do, they retire on an estate, as millionaires with no worries, & government protection.

What do the veterns get? Thanks for fighting this War for us, you men and women are the true heroes , now go find a job .

"Of course the people don't want war.

But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

Herman Goering
Nuremberg Trials

We have danced this dance before and it NEVER ends well for the people spilling the blood.

Slight right.....1st how do you know OBL is dead?...because the skunk in the white house read it off a telepromter to you....If you believe all that babbling b.s., I have some koolaid for you to drink...its called hemlock.

What a myopic outlook. We pull out job unfinished and we'll be back in 5 years. It was a terrorist haven under the Taliban before and it will be again unless we finish the job. Too bad the job is really to kill all the vermin, to do it right we would have to sterilize the place. It will never be a nation, neither will Pakistan. Their religion and culture militate against it. Both places and the Middle East will be a festering cancer on the world, until the war of cultures is waged and there is a complete victor. This may well be the Armegedon. There is no compromise with religious zealots because they have the conviction of their religion that they are right and god is on their side. So the only peace will be the peace of the grave, or total domination. As in the days when I used to play the board game Risk: Peace only came when there was a total victor and he could then declare, "World Peace". Blood will run on Mainstreet USA within the next couple of Generations. We are allowing our society to be infiltrated by the Muslim Faction that has no loyalty to the US as a nation. Their allegiance is to the Nation of Islam. We have seen that Muslim immigrants cannot be truste, the shooter at Ft. Hood, the numerous bombers and plotters, who by all accounts, mainstream Muslims who for one reason or another turned violent. Their religion is like a poison. I am an atheist, so hold no religion above another, I only see thier actions. I view every Mulsim as a potential terrorist, a Manchurian Candidate if you will. Who knows what act will turn them into a murderer. They have been indoctrinated in this since birth. What else would spur someone to turn into a suicide bomber? It will come to open warfare like it did in Lebanon, a once thriving modern secular state to rival Monaco, it became a Islamisized war zone and is now a shadow of its former self. That my friends is what awaits the US of A so long as our elected officials refuse to recognize the risks and the obvious threat to our national future.

I fear most of you, will dismiss Mudrake2 as a conspiracy theorist. The Obama supporters will go wild I'm sure. The more things keep going darker and darker in terms of our constitution the more I wonder if he isn't seeing what we all should see.
When you disregard the constitution and the rules that have always held in government, over and over and over all the way up to attacking our religious freedoms, then its time to start worrying. Anyone who does not vote to save our country this time in my opinion will be guilty of betraying the greatest country that has ever existed and could be the one vote needed to save it. You can bet the Chicago vote machine will be in full force bussing every street person they can find to the voting booths.

Do you remember the black panthers standing outside a polling place with night sticks that the Holder DOJ refused to prosecute? What do you think will come next if we don't turn things around.

Foxy-SEAL,

It is exactly people like you that refuse to listen to REAL World Life Or Death School of Hard Knocks Experience, as to why I less than 4 months quite a lot of us will finally be going back on Retirement and Too Old to ever be Recalled to Active Duty.

So we will not have any sympathy for your arses when you have to "Deal With It".

Almost laughing. Quite a few US Military voted for Candidate Obama because of his Verbal Contract (Campaign Promise) to instate the Selective Service and or Manditory Compulsory US Military Service as a means to decrease the numbers of deployments of the 1% of US Citizens of the US Military. This would force the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served to either Serve in the US Military or leave the US. Based on President Obama's April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN that means your arse will be Serving in the US Army or USMC as Ground Combat. Also as stated by Candidate Obama, "US Military Service is a Civic Duty", "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement".

THE TROLL,

We have been involved with the "Middle East" (Africa, Asia, South and Central Americas, etc. also) since the 1980s. Of the 500 of us that were around as the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, then rotated to Pakistan to train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, there are about 200 of us survivors left, of the 200 only 20 of us are left that are not missing body parts and are currently here (Afghanistan).

During the President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military I saw entire Units being Deactivated, many of the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces becoming National Guard, Reserves, or in some cases becomingpaperwork phantoms. I saw many of my peers walking out of the gates doing the duffle bag drag, and then they started their own US Contractors or they joined the Foreign Security Contractors. So when we were sent to participate with the UN Mission Somalia, we went there "Blind" (with little or no information from US Intelligence Agencies). The same with President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998", when we went into Iraq "Blind"; as well as later during Operation Desert Fox to accomplish Target Damage Assessment. During this time President Clinton shut down 14 US Military Installations at the US, causing near Great Depression Era Economies in the surrounding US Towns and Cities; causing the US Contractors to flee, then their workers fleed, causing the local, city, state governments increasing their taxes on the remaining residents to make up for the sudden loss of so many people.

Because of the Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies by President Clinton the numbers of credible verifiable Intelligence Assets worldwide decreased from millions worldwide to thousands or none in many Nations, leading to Intelligence Blackouts of Entire Regions, and the US having to rely on Information from potentially hostile Nations like Jordan and Pakistan. It was normally our job to independently verify Intelligence to form Credible Verifiable "Actionable" Intelligence, because of President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military there were not enough of us left to even cover one Region. A lot of this was brought up during the US Congressional 9/11 Committee and Hearings (US Politicians failed attempts to blame the US Intelligence Agencies and the US Military again. Just like they tried to blame the Levees at New Orleans on the US Army Corps of Engineers and the US Politicians got b!tch slapped since they chopped the US Military Defense Budget (the Funds chopped for the US Army Corps of Engineers Long term Projects/Programs to upgrade, rebuild, new construction, etc. of the Levees at New Orleans before Katrina as done as demanded by President Clinton as Commander In Chief.).

So weeks after the 9/11 2001 Attacks we went in Blind to Afghanistan, our Mission(s): 1. Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government that provided Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden, Al Quada, and was supporting the Islamic Jihadist Training Camps., 2. Reestablish some form of Democracy., 3. Seize and Secure Locations for the arrival of US Military Conventional Warfare Forces., 4. After President Bush amended the US No Assassination Policy, 2006, Mission Added, Termination of Osama Bin Laden. 5. Afghanistan becomes a UN Mission, Nation Building.

Of the few survivors, we are then sent to Northern Iraq to conduct 2002 Operation Hotel California after US Congress Declares War With Iraq. After other Operations at Iraq, we are redeployed back to US Military Bases at Germany to Reorganize, Retrain with the new replacements with the German Commandos in Mountain Warfare, etc.. We train with US Ally Turkey in Mountain Warfare against the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK. We are then deployed to Afghanistan to conduct US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare. Every so often we are redeployed to President Obama's Secret Wars. Since Yemen failed as one of President Obama's Secret Wars, resulting in US Ally President of Yemen being Overthrown and Al Quada Yemen now controlling Yemen, and a threat to US Ally Saudi Arabia, and Senator Liebermann Officially Confirmed our involvements; Yemen was one of President Obama's Secret Wars (Failure).

Like I stated before it will take at least another decade or more for the US Military and US Intelligence Agencies to recover from what President Clinton did. Because it takes decades to train us, our Replacements were never trained, so in less than 4 months we could care less. Usually, if someone starts the process at age 18 to 20 they will be about age 35 by the time that they are almost ready, and still must learn college level language(s) and college level cultural (based on Area(s) of Operation(s)). And they still have to prove that they can do as they were trained by gaining Operational Experience.

How about reading these to get more of the "Picture":

Iraq:

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq

Iran:

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-straight-of-hormuz

US Economy:

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/02/22/6107088-the-current-global-economic-crisis

In less than 4 months after I go back on Retirement I will post one on here (Afghanistan) from the 1980s till now (2012) so that our successors (barely mission capable) will have a chance of surviving after the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces leave in 2014, as they will be here decades afterwards.

Not in the 1%,

Having been involved with Iraq since the 1980s US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, how about reading this:

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/17/8369272-iraq

And since someone mentioned it. It does take both the US Congress House of Representatives and the US Senate to Declare War. This was actually done, as the House of Representatives US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" (US Laws do not go away until they are Accomplished or Repealed); and US Senate 2002 Iraqi War Resolution. President Clinton's justification for H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" was WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, section 2 "Findings" of H.R.4655; this is where WMDs pertaining to Iraq came from NOT Bush. President Clinton's H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" after Operation Desert Fox becomes US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom 1998 to 2011.

President Clinton demanding to both Houses of US Congress during his 1998 State of the Union Address that they pass H.R.4655 into US Law, justification Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world", and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.

We (most of us that were on the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars) knew that what President Clinton said was another lie. As we knew where the Chemical Weapons came from, where the remaining were stored, and that the Chemical Weapons were used to end the very long Iran Iraq Wars (millions already dead), just like the US use of Nuclear Weapons ended WWII so that the US did not have to conduct US Military Operation Downfall the Invasion of Japan and so saved Millions of Lives on both sides. And before you even say anything, the Kurdistanis have long been the armed (men, women, children conducting "Guerrilla Warfare") ally of Iran (and still are).

We have been involved with the "Middle East" (Africa, Asia, South and Central Americas, etc. also) since the 1980s

Dave -

Since the 50's, to be accurate. USMTM in Saudi Arabia started back in 1951 with the Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement.

I'm in agreement with you on your points, just clarifying the date, that's all.

tryreality-1568930

If I ever read any nonsense, this was it!

The U.S. is not a rogue state. If the U.S. followed your thinking about bombing Afghanistan we would be a rogue state at war with the rest of the community of nations.

I'm all for it!!!! if you want to get rid of the disease you have to completely destroy it, to kill the whole idea and infection!!!! Besides all that, the US has to go clean up its messes and help train etc Not once have i heard that they are repaying us for the destruction of the twin towers, oh and how about the terrorist prisoners? don't think we have beheaded any of them yet!!!!!

Would someone please ban the Foxy-troll?

Nice Foxy.....just a bunch of dumb rethugs throwing the spew again. David? What the hell are you talking about? What a bunch of lies. Believe in what you want I guess but your way off on your thinking. Please try to be a little more ingorant will you. lol I mean your still blaming Obama for the mess that Bush jr created. ITs just laughable

Okay, let the contractors from Iraq march in a parade. When the war in Afghanistan is over let those contractors march in that parade.

You are recognized for your service.

David,

Soldiers are untaxed as well, and the majority of them NEVER leave the safety of the base, only wandering from their hooch to their place of duty; then the PX, Green Bean Coffee Shop, Pizza Hut and back to their rooms where they sit surfing the web or playing XBOX until the wee hours of morning.

They come back home thinking they are "all that" just like the truckers.

What's the difference?

Sorry, there is no "safe" place, base or otherwise over there. rocket attacks, covert attacks, RPG's, roadside bombs when leaving the area, etc..., it is not safe for any tropp, anywhere there. Also it sucks living under those conditions not knowing if while you are taking a dump, sleeping or walking, if a rocket will hit, let alone being away from your family under those conditions. Speak not on what you think or heard, but on what you KNOW first hand.

Many of the contractors lost everything when the economy tanked.

There are quite a few who just want to make enough so that they can retire.

I'm sure there are some people that think they are "all that", most are just trying to make a buck. Several lost more, than they will ever make, during the recession.

Now it is obvious many have also lost their lives.

Oh they did not. We have them running all over our country, dressed in black calling themselves "authorities" Do you know that "THEY" are flying drones over OUR cities? Mercs have ruined every empire on the planet as they will turn against their employers.

David, how's the foil hat?

Speak not on what you think or heard, but on what you KNOW first hand.

3 tours under OEF, 3 under OIF.

Do tell George, what's YOUR experience based on?

@JOregon

http://www.naturalnews.com/034919_spy_drones_America_surveillance.html

There's my tin hat a** clown ...... JO is right

LMAO....... poor David! He is one of the people who would run and cry like a baby, if someone was coming after him. "Don't let the bad man hurt me!" I have several freinds 2 home now for a few months downtime.(end of their contracts. They are not allowed to carry weapons (the reason I would not take a job) and they are assigned a couple of bodyguards (locals). In his case 2 brothers last time. I was offered a contract to build wireless and hard cabled secure networks, having spent a few years as a comspec in the military. I spent enough time in the area to not go with out my choice of weapons. The pay over 200k for a year contract with a two week trip every 3 to 4 months to home or local AP vaca spot. Most of you could not stand the cold or the heat. It gets pretty cold in Afghanistan.

Un-taxed??? Where are you getting your information?

Untaxed. Hardly. For a contractor to get any kind of tax break they have to be deployed a minimum of 330 days per year which will give them a break on something like the first $90k. Military is 100% tax free.

And all of this mercenary talk is absolute B.S. Most contractors perform support roles. In my case I supported communications networks.

After having been laid off and unemployed for almost 7 months, I had a choice. Stay unemployed or accept a position that required me to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan so that I could support my family. It was an easy choice and one that most people would take.

Contractors get no special treatment over there either. We eat, sleep, and work right next to the soldiers. And as others have pointed out we "mercenaries" are cheaper.

Personally, I am proud of the work I did and don't give a damn what others think.

My husband is currently deployed in afghanistan and I can honestly say he may be tax free for the most part but he is only an e-4 so we are not making money. The whole topic was supposed to be about losing people and no matter if you are a soldier or a civillian it is sad. There are no soldiers I know of that come home and feel they are all that for being away from their families. They miss so much of everyday life and the same for the contractors. People remember life is short for a soldier or a contractor it is dangerous. Stop complaining you are not the ones who are risking your lives.

David

@JOregon

http://www.naturalnews.com/034919_spy_drones_America_surveillance.html

There's my tin hat a** clown ...... JO is right

Your Source is the "Natural News"? LOL

They are just as paranoid as you are. Personally I wouldn't mind Drones on the boarder and flying into compounds where highly suspected radicals or cults may be hanging out. Might have helped in the David Koresh instance, or here in Oregon with the Bhagwan that set out to poison a city.

I'm not too worried about them launching an invasion of drones to watch me BBQ.

What are you hiding?

Perfect!!!! Gotta remember that one!

Contractor = Mercenary. No pity here. Enjoy your war hard-on.

Wrong. There may be a few Mercenaries, most are just trying to make a buck driving truck, or pumping gas.

In case you hadn't heard here in America the job opportunities are a bit tight.

A FEW???? R U kidding? there are 100k of them in Afghanistan alone.

I lied 104,100 at last count

David, lobby for the draft then because it is either contract support of they come get you or your son or your neighbor for service because there arent enough soldiers to do these jobs, even if we left Afghanistan today.

Only people with no conception whatsoever of the military would criticize contractors. And yes, geniuses..they ARE taxed unless they spend nearly a YEAR overseas. A lot of these guys were in the military for 6,8,10 years making pennies on the dollar as an E3 or an E4 and can now afford an education to supplement the GI bill or pay for their kids college.

Yep draft everyone for service, force these idiots into service for this country. Have them put a little skin in the game. Its easy to sit here and condemn others and then run like babies crying for momma. Save me momma, help me the bad guys want to hurt me.

I got drafted in 1966 You guys are so funny... you talk and diatribe with no clue. Especially U Riley.... What a clown LOLOL

They don't answer to the Commander in Chief either. Most of them have had their pee pee's wet through at least two Presidents

Would anyone need to wonder what Dwight D Eisenhower would say on the issue of military contractors? And Eisenhower was the first to warn us about the "military industrial complex."

The problem with military contractors is that they have become political. For the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars, they are all Republican. All of the corporations I know of contribute heavily to the Republican Party. Halliburton, KBR and Blackwater are three examples. All seem to have bought preferential treatment in the contracting process, such as no bid contracts. Blackwater were preferred to be used as bodyguards for corporate and government executives as they had no rules of engagement like the military. This led to many incidents in Iraq with civilian non combatants being killed.

ROEs changed almost immediately after Nisoor Square fool. In addition the UCMJ rules apply to ALL of them now and in addition, since the US Mil left Iraq - they are subject to Iraqi law. What you are talking about was back in 2002-2004 when it was a fledgling industry. Please get informed.

Huge waste. I am on the job and the job is calling. I am very pleased to see that I am not the only one who can't stand contractors.

The Republicans can't bring themselves to raise taxes to help the poor, but they can use plenty of our tax dollars for their contractor friends. I guess that's a more worthy cause...

Yes let us raise taxes to say 100% that will get everyone on the big tit and we can all be happy and fat. No need for incentive or initiative or work ethic. We just collect our cheese and spam.

ahhhh I think that we are all idiots to some extent. The problem is that we are working and we don't have time. Sooner or later the USA will be "as we were" or better.

Thank dick cheney for privatizing the military

Try thanking Clinton. He's the one that started that ball rolling with the drawdown back in the 90's - NOT Cheney.

cheney was bush 1's boy and started the whole privatization of our military therefore causing the drawdown. i believe he was secretary of defense. i was a midlevel military member that was flushed out prior to 1992 because my job was vacated by the brass. with the success of the sophisticated weapons used in gulf war 1 we needed less personnel. nice try though.

i was a midlevel military member that was flushed out prior to 1992 because my job was vacated by the brass

Obsolete, in other words.

SecDef's under Clinton were -

Les Aspin - you should remember him for his outstanding decisions -

In March 1993 he released a plan to close an additional 31 large military installations and to shrink or consolidate 134 other sites

And, his most infamous one -

In September, General Powell asked Aspin to approve the request of the U.S. commander in Somalia for tanks, armored vehicles and AC-130 Spectre gunships for his forces. Aspin turned down the request. Shortly thereafter Aidid's forces in Mogadishu killed 18 U.S. soldiers and wounded more than 75

William Perry - Remembered for cutting an ADDITIONAL 85,000 troops. But he did make a very valid point that would come back to haunt us -

Shortly before he introduced his FY 1997 budget request in March 1996, Perry warned that the United States might have to give up the strategy of preparing for two major regional conflicts if the armed forces suffered further reductions

In March 1995 Perry released DoD's 1995 base realignment and closure (BRAC) plan, recommending 146 actions

Bill Cohen - Once again, here we go...

...included cutting another 61,700 active duty service members — 15,000 in the Army, 26,900 in the Air Force, 18,000 in the Navy, and 1,800 in the Marine Corps, as well as 54,000 reserve forces, mainly in the Army National Guard, and some 80,000 civilians department-wide. Cohen also recommended two more rounds of base closings in 1999 and 2001.

That was 8 consecutive years of drawdown. Then Sep 11th. Not hard to figuire out how we ended up where we are, relying heavily on Contractors instead of Military Members.

Good! the smaller the military the better. Clinton was a smart man. One again the troll is right smack on.

Jym, gotta love the irony but respect the truth. Opium production in Afghanistan is now at record levels, 90% of the worlds production. Most products in America are imported from China, because most jobs were exported to China. China has the largest military in the world, they had a GDP of around 10% for 2010, they have been stockpiling gold for several years, they hold over a trillion dollars of our debt, and they will one day mine that lithium in Afghanistan as well. They have already won the "war" without firing a single shot. My only concern is "when" will they decide to collect the spoils.

Only 2% of the opiates grown in Afghanistan are illegal. The rest is purchased by the worlds pharmaceutics.

Ahhhh... These people (yes some friends of mine) go because they want to go. They make good money and they know the risk. We have a meeting watering hole where we meet every few months when that get their OOC break. They get to keep their family intact with their home and food on the table. If they would have let me carry my own weapon of choice I would be overseeing network installation at some of the Air stations. Flash bang pop pop!

You're right. But I think part of what this article is saying is that many of the 'contractors' are actually locals employed in what we would call the 'service industry'. Food, cleaning, laundry, etc.

My husband was in Iraq as a 'contractor'. He's an engineer and worked on the reconstruction. Yes, he made really good money and we made that choice. But when he was in the camps the general services were contracted out. Sometimes to American companies and at times to Iraqi companies. Both hired locals to do the work. We're not talking about just security forces,

I imagine Afganistan is much the same. I don't know if it's cost effective though. My husband told me about some of the contracts. And he's a friendly guy and found out what some of the locals were paid. Let me tell you, those food service contracts were probably the most lucrative around. They charged loads, hired locals and paid little. Knowing some of the things he told me about contracts, pay and under-the-table bribes would make your blood boil.

From what he said I can say I don't think the invasion of Iraq was about oil, it was about the reconstruction and the outsourcing. That's where the big bucks are.

It was certainly enough of an eye-opener he says he will never vote for a Republican again.

Republicans like to operate on a war economy. Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex. We didn't listen. Think about this for a moment. A sure fire way to draw people into the military as "volunteers" is to create a poor domestic economy with high unemployment. Since most less fortunate are drawn to serve, it conveniently excluddes daddy warbucks kids. If you are going to fight a war, draft everyone - no exceptions - none. then there will be less war and more domestic economic spending. think of what these wars have cost us in addition to a lot of good people. We suffer a disintegrating infrastructure. Our schools are facing cutbacks. Congress is blaming social Security when we all klnow it is really their mismanagement of our tax dollars. Anyway, lacking enough "volunteers" the next best thing is civilian contractors. they know the risks so let's move on to more important issues and not be sidelined by emotional issues like this in this election year. There are far bigger fish to fry and they are running for officce folks.

Mmmmmmmmm The truth looks ugly; But GWM is correct.

Anyone profiteering from the war effort should be shot.

David, Care to be the one who tries? I will give you a warning and a head start! I live a little north of you...... Just a short ride up Rte 19! Come on up meet you on the sponge dock!

Joly obviously you are talking through your butt. I kept my boat behind Leverocks for years at Madeira. The Boat is Captain Hook. So don't go blowing bad with someone you don't know.

Now sir... profiteering applies to contractors who take excessive profit from a military contract. If you are in doing that, you are committing treason. So be a patriot and shoot yourself.

Freeking J/O ...Where the hell r u from... Long Island?

The DOD has thousands of civilian employees that do work for the military. They are not mercenaries.

Problem is, the Republicans won't use tax money to help the increasing poor in this country. Giving the green light to these contractors is like giving a blank check to Cheney and all his Republican contractor friends. Personally, I'd rather see our tax dollars spent more wisely. At least the US military answers to the government.

Personally, I'd rather see our tax dollars spent more wisely

"Spent" would mean it went to people who earned it by doing something.

"Wasted" would be throwing it away with yet another handout to the poor.

Perhaps you've overlooked the fact that 48.5% of the US relies on Government Assistance - and that 34.2% rely on food stamps, subsidized housing, cash welfare or Medicaid?

Take a look

tobiii- "another handout to the poor" says it all about your way of thinking. I think it's wasted when taxes go to wealthy elites who don't lift a finger to earn most of their money.

BTW- don't your very statistics show you that there is a serious income gap in this country? You want more tax money to be thrown at the rich and make it worse? I'd rather give tax money to those who are down and out and could use it.

I'd rather give tax money to those who are down and out and could use it.

And be right back begging for more money next month.

Give a man a fish....you've heard it before.

Paying these guys to work over here or paying someone to sit on their ass - which one would you prefer?

Giving money to the poor doesn't solve poverty. It creates MORE poverty.

Yea......some one who gets it!

Casual US Taxpayer
I wonder if you had been successful and made millions in your lifetime if you would agree that your kids should not reap the benefit of your work but should give all the money to those that have not either worked or succeeded?
Somehow I think with the shoe on the other foot the song would be a whole lot different. I don't have millions but if I did, I would want it go benefit my kids, which is the reason we all work our butts off. Not to benefit someone who does not work or who walked out on a free high school education but to make life better for our families. Now, somehow that has become a bad thing. And the only people who buy that are the ones suffering from greed and envy, or the liberals who have thiers and want control bad enough to lie that they agree.

Voted up, Shaking!

I totally agree, Charles. When this administration comes up with the idea to pay the mercenaries pensions then we will be sure of the purpose of having them.

carter -

Re-check your info - we have decorated Veterans in Congress.

War does not create domestic jobs anymore. Most things are made somewhere else and the mercenaries don't operate here; well at least not yet.

Obama??? Private contractors in Afghan are somehow his fault? As if Bush jr never moved military jobs to his private contracting buddies. Does Blackwater ring the bell, whatever they are called now. A massive shift from military personnel to private contractors took place in Iraq under Bush's watch and Obama simply has done nothing to reverse the trend. Contractors know what they are getting into, and they are paid times more than military personnel. They have no reason to complain.

Yeah, sure
I never heard President Bush give a speech on the need for a "civilian" armed force like the one Obama gave. I never heard President Bush say he was going to win an election using the internet then found the multitude of "volunteer" posters for him grow by the day, at all times of the day indicating they either weren't working or had a job posting.
President Bush did not disregard our Constitution every other day. So stop the "Bush did it" crap, it has long since worn thin.

Yes, Bush did it, even if you hate to admit it. All these private companies were supposed to be more effective and cost efficient than the government, remember that? Just like I said the MASSIVE shift to private contracting took place during Bush's years and there is no disputing this fact. I am not givig Obama a pass either. Somethimes he behaves in a way that would make a dyed in wool Republican very proud. And you are right Bush did not disregard US Constitution every day, just once in a while. Aaaaaa, Patriot Act, what a sweet sounding title, starting a war in Iraq (what happened to only Congress may declare a war and I dare you to find this Congressional declaration of war on Iraq resolution). They actually gave President this right. How does that mesh with the Constitution? I guess disregarding the Constitution once in a while makes it OK. As far as "civilian" armed forces is concerned, it is actually established in the Constitution:P! Well armed and regulated militia, remember that? I think Obama is not stupid enough to do it though. Volunteering for political cause is not even close to volunteering in some "civilian" armed forces where you can get your ass shot off.

Gotta love capitalism. Now we're outsouring lives. And keep 'shaking your head'. Maybe some reality will enter. Either that or you're a pretty good writer for a 6 year old. Blackwater was there when Bush decided to invade the wrong country. Maybe he SHOULD have invaded ENRON and caught his pal Kenny-boy before he initiated the economic collapse. You talk about the Constitution but somehow gloss over all the blatant violations the Bush Brigade committed. Are you hips sore from dodging the truth?

Your all are nuts with very short memory. Are you telling me that you don't remember who started this whole contractor business?

I remind you that it was Bush and his buddies from Halliburton and Blackwater, (you know: Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Libby, Perle, Card, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Ashcroft, Rove), NONE of them serve in Vietnam, BTW.

The IRAQ war was all about money and oil. Cheney gave Halliburton $18 billion of NO-BID government contracts, a 91% increase of what the company was doing prior to the Iraq war.

Don't forget that Cheney, while he was Halliburton CEO, was Saddam Hussein business partner with $73 million worth of business.

With all these croonnie businesses, you would think Halliburton would be eager to pay its taxes. No, No, No, they did not. Instead, they got $85 million tax rebate just in one year.

War profiteerings !!! Mercenaries !!! Death vendors !!!

NONE of them serve in Vietnam, BTW.

Do tell, Toloto, what's the Service Record of the current Cabinet?

President Barack Obama — None. Law degree.

Vice-President Joe Biden — Exempted from Vietnam draft. Law degree.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — No military service. Law degree.

Secretary of Treasury Tim Geithner — No military service.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates – Air Force Officer (and Bush Holdover)

Attorney General Eric Holder — No military experience. Law degree.

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazaar — No military experience. Law degree.

Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack — No military experience. Law degree.

Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke — No military experience. Law degree.

Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis — No military experience

Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius – No military experience

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan — No military experience

Secretary of HUD Shaun Donovan* –No military experience

Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood –No military experience

Secretary of Energy Steven Chu — No military experience

Secretary of Veterans Affairs Gen. Eric Shinseki — Retired General

Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano — No military experience. Law degree.

Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel — No military experience (although he curses like a sailor)

David Axelrod, chief adviser — No military experience

Robert Gibbs, press secretary — No military experience.

TWO people. TWO.