Another example of that so-called "peaceful" religion....four family members murdered.

We're in a war...the Muslims against the rest of the world.

i agree

Hopefully this will turn the trend of Sharia law gaining ascendancy in democratic countries. Good for the Canadian jury and the Canadian judge.

this is such a dispicable act, i cant think of strong enough words to describe the perpetrators, liars, disgusting offal.

This is fortunate for justice they were caught and tried and Canada. They may not have received such harsh penalties if the same scenario were apprehended in the United States

"Muslim" and "Christian" countries have been at war since the beginning of recorded history.

Wavesofgrain, They would be on death row in the US

All countries should immediately see this as the reason why you BAN Sharia law. Islam isn't a dangerous religion, but the people who run it are. Ban sharia law, and MINIMIZE anything remotely related to Muslim culture. It allows rape, mercy killings, sodomy of boys as a norm, slavery. It is tribal, one sect wants to eradicate the other. The current state of affairs in the Muslim world shows all of this. No respect for other people.

America and the developed world must see the good that we all have striven for. WE cannot allow to step backwards in time, by putrifying civil liberty and social mobility because of Islamic slant on gender, station or religion.

Ban Sharia law. Let Muslims know, you come to a Western country, you become western and understand what it means....otherwise, deportation is a must. This above any other immigration topic must be acknowledged.

Education..."where is Sharia law "gaining ascendency" in democratic countries?"

LOL my friend, have you been sleeping?

Americans assaulted by Muslim thugs in Dearborn, Michigan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPod-hxD7g

Muslims Take Over Parts of France

http://downloads.cbn.com/cbnnewsplayer/cbnplayer.swf?aid=17933

It's hard to believe that American and Australian young men and women have given their lives to defend these people's way of life and death.....get out of Afghanistan let them live in the dark ages if they choose to do so.....but in their own country!

I can't see no honor is killing those Girls and his other wife, and anyone that does can pack their Sh-t and leave, go back to your country where this is accepted!

"Muslim" and "Christian" countries have been at war since the beginning of recorded history.

That's a pretty typical uneducated statement ... try looking past your bigotry for actual FACTS and you'll discovered that "recorded history" is much older that either Islam OR Christianity. You need look no further than the Old Testament of the Bible. (Since you obviously don't know, Islam started in 610 AD).

Sheesh ... the ignorance here is appalling. No wonder there is so much bigotry and hate.

The "religion of peace" at it again.

To those who allow their bigotry to get in the way...try not to hate so much...

I am sorry, there is NO HONOR in killing people..Crazies really do Exsist, and this is so blatant of that..are they that Stupid, Not to obey the Laws of the Country they Reside in ???... this sounds Like , they Need to be Educated to the Rules of the Country that they prefer to Live In..they must be aware of New Social Aspects, if they Cannot Abide, then they should stay where they were.......

why is it so hard, to understand, the Muslim and Western cultures are so far apart, that there is no way to bridge any gap; let them stay in their primitive middle-east cesspool, do not bring them into any western society, there is no way to bridge the gap.

If any Muslim wants to come to this country, they should accept the fact that America does not have Sharia Law. If they cannot accept that, they should stay the hell out or if they are allready here they should go back to where they came from.

There are plenty of Muslim countries that they can live in. This country lives under a CONSTITUTION, not Sharia Law.

That's the way I see it.

Eduction will save you: Sheesh, suddenly a 'lesson' in redundancy. Ascendancy (also spelled ascendency) is defined as: a position of control or power, supremacy, domination. Now, gaining and ascendancy are not the same thing, they do not have the same meaning. Ascendancy is a noun, gain is a verb when used in the context in which it was written. You gain: ie: grow in ascendancy by acquiring more power, domination, etc. Perhaps next time you wish to 'teach' you should understand the lesson better.

"Even if they hoist me up onto the gallows ... nothing is more dear to me than my honor."

He'll have plenty of time to treasure his 'honor'.

Yup. I wonder how his 'honor' will fare in prison when a few of his fellow inmates decide he's 'kinda cute.'

@Beth-440386

That's a pretty typical uneducated statement ... try looking past your bigotry for actual FACTS and you'll discovered that "recorded history" is much older that either Islam OR Christianity. You need look no further than the Old Testament of the Bible. (Since you obviously don't know, Islam started in 610 AD).

Sheesh ... the ignorance here is appalling. No wonder there is so much bigotry and hate.

While you are correct, I DO point out the need to state to the poster that Christianity and Muslim are faiths not countries. The faiths have been at war.......

Saxon, I don't think that is hard to see or understand, but I know many people from other cultures with other customs that "adjust" and are upstanding members of the communities they live in. It is unfair to claim that the gaps are insurmountable it is up to the individual. If they can reconcile their "beliefs" with the prevailing laws of the land and the attitudes of the sitting pouplations and fit in great, welcome mate we'll throw another shrimp on the barbie (I have achieved this in a few different countries and regions myself so I know) .

However if you don't obey the law then you get the prevailing sentence, I hope for these people it is hard and well exposed so that the example of shame of "honour killings" is shown to be worse than the "shame" which provoked it.

meede1 - no doubt...like American Idol, Ophra, Newt Gingrich, useless Wars, the Kardashians, E-News, unrestricted access to guns specifically designed to kill people, racism......should I go on? We are all entitled to our opinions but I am not so sure that many intelligent humans would agree that "honour killings" because your family disrupted your beliefs is not from the Dark Ages and shouldn't remain there, I can assure you that the daughters and the "excess wife" would not have thought too highly of it.

Honor killings are not so much based on religion as they are on culture.

And they have taken place in every country in the world.

This would never happen in the U.S. --- I mean the conviction.

CAIR and the ACLU would start screaming "discrimination!!" at the police station, while Islamists world wide would declare jihad .

The news media would report it, but with NO mention of the killers having anything to do with Islam. Can't insult the faithful...

We'd wind up apologizing to Islamists everywhere, the perpetrators would get a good book and movie deal for their troubles, and a big payoff after the lawyers got done with the police.

It's the American way!

Islam is coming to your town. Get used to it . The dhimmi are taking over, for their masters.

I agree!!! but most of these block heads can't think that far ahead.

Muslims don't even like Muslims why should we let them move here , look at the problems they are having in Europe, I don't want that for North America. even with our problems we have the best life in general the world has to offer the Muslims have the worst and they move here not to live our lifestyle but to bring theirs to us its time to stop it. just send them home if they cant adopt to our lifestyle. our cultures can not coexist it just wont happen its impossible...Muslims will never change its against their religion.

Ritdog,

wrong. Murder is murder. You do not get off on those charges, in this country, because of your religion since the law and religion are constitutionally separate (or supposed to be).

If your religion is some obsolete form of Voodooism that demands you give sacrifices and you claim this in court as your defense you will get laughed at all the way to your prison cell.

Please learn how the criminal justice system works, I assume you live in the US so it is sad that you do not understand it, if not then you now have this chance to further your knowledge.

@article

They should not have used the term 'honor killings' in the official verdict because it seems like they are attacking the religion and not the perpetrators. There was plenty enough exposition for people to make the honor killing connection on their own without actually stating that is what they were.

Either way they murdered three people and are going to jail, not much else you can rationally read into it.

Geowill: I think you are overlooking the reason for the killings. It was not a simple act of jealousy or something spur of the moment. It was something very calculated based upon a person's beliefs. You are acting one-sided when you say that

They should not have used the term 'honor killings' in the official verdict because it seems like they are attacking the religion and not the perpetrators.

If christians did that you would not have said" let's attack the person and not the religion". You would have called all christians everywhere "fakes and hypocrites" AND you would have said it was based upon our religion quoting some old testament verse found in Leviticus. Admit that this is what Muslims do! It is the only way you will learn what the democratic party is actually endorsing when you quote religious tolerance.

A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.

tgooose

""Muslim" and "Christian" countries have been at war since the beginning of recorded history."

Wrong. Christianity has been in the world for 2000 years. Islam only 1300 years. Recorded history goes back about 6000 years. Are you trying to say they have been fighting for 6000 years? If so, then you should sue your history teachers for malpractice.

Unhappy ..

While you are correct, I DO point out the need to state to the poster that Christianity and Muslim are faiths not countries. The faiths have been at war.......

I figured only one correction at a time. LOL (However, many people do claim various countries as "Christian" countries or "Muslim" countries, and this could be a valid point if the country in question has an official state religion.)

You sit here and judge islam countries, but was Jeff Warren not only in polygamous marriages, but in marriages with underage girls? Was he a muslim. I thik not. If you are going to judge all muslims to this, please look at all the nutcases in this country of various religions who have done the same and or worst.

You sit here and judge islam countries, but was Jeff Warren not only in polygamous marriages, but in marriages with underage girls?

That's true.He is now in jail,as what he did is a crime in America, and Mormons who break the law, are put in jail.

Was he a muslim

No, he was not.

America for some reason tolerates polygamous marriages in the Islamic community.

double standards ?

Although polygamy is illegal in the U.S. and most mosques try to discourage plural marriages, some Muslim men in America have quietly married multiple wives.

No one knows how many Muslims in the U.S. live in polygamous families. But according to academics researching the issue, estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000 people.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90857818

TheTruth-1272350

A manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that

"not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring."

('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2). In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law.

This can be found on page 267, in the reliance of the traveller,sourced from a Canadian university

http://www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~omnafees/temp/Reliance-of-the-Traveller.pdf

Actual there have been cases in the US where the fathers who have done honor killings have been caught. Also, I am sure not all mormons are in jail for this and the reason why Warren Jeffs is in jail is due to evidence against him and a DA who did his job. No, I do not believe that the US tolerates polygomist marriages in the Islamic community. What about the tolerating of the folks in Sister Wives. That is shown on tv, yet he gets a pass. Talk about toleration. No, i am not a muslim but all the ones I know are in a regular marriage, not a polygomist one.

GEOWIL- Hi-

Look up two things: "sarcasm", and "O.J. Simpson", reference a trial he was involved in. Then get back to me.

While you are at it, try "Sharia Law, Great Britain" in Google. Don't tell me it can't happen here. It's happening there........

Here it shows that they are just a bunch of animals, kill your own kids then tell us we go and live the "Sharia law" living in Canada , America or any other none Moslim Country, dare to tell us we did not do anything wrong by killing them, I am so sick in my stomach from all this,they live here and have to live according to our laws,lock them up forever or hang them,they should never walk free anymore. I was never so damn opset in my live,when they try to kiss this off as honor killing,your own beautiful young girls,I hope Canada sticks to his law and never let these people out into the free world. And please bring all the troops back ASAP and stop building the schools they don't want and burn them down anyway,they just keep their women uneducated, how is all this possible.?? So far good job CANADA.

HS,

I must've been sleeping then. (sarcasm).

A few incidents don't amount to sharia law gaining ascendency in the west.

What part of France did the Muslims take over? I must not of been paying attention that day in geography class. Additionally, how many muslims do you think have been beat up just for their beliefs? How many blacks have been killed for their race? Should we say that America is under control of the KKK? It goes both ways.

You can't argue that isolate incidents amount to a full fledged takeover of the US. This country has a written constitution that can only be changed by Congress and last I checked, Congress is pretty xenophobic.

Stop scaremongering and playing loose with the facts.

Unhappy,

If Christians had done this I would have said the same thing. That they were on the fanatical end of the spectrum (that was the subtext of my post) and that it is the people, not the religion, we should be arguing about.

The problem with Christianity is that there are quite a few people that are content to left a single person tell them what their religion is about and not make their own interpretations. Islam, and most other religions, are the same. So if you have one radical pastor then the congregation becomes radical over time.

Any organized religion is susceptible to this because they foster putting one person in charge of an entire congregation's beliefs. Religions that are not organized are not susceptible to this because each person is free to interpret their holy books for themselves and come up with their own conclusions.

As you said, they did this because it is in their culture and religious texts to do so, however if they were better adjusted people they would have come to the realization that killing is wrong under almost all circumstances.

Arabs have lived inside of a toxic environment where their leaders can kill them at any time for no reason what so ever if they do not conform to their view of how Islam or Sharia law must be followed. Over time this has radicalized a lot of the belief systems of the Middle East to the point where they need certain levels of rehabilitation in the form of exposure to other, more moderate, systems. This family is one such example of one that needed such rehabilitation.

You have to understand why the Mid East is the way it is in order to understand why they take the actions they take. Theocratic dictatorships do a great deal of damage both religiously and culturally by forcing their people to live in fear constantly, take into account that the average length of a dictatorship in the Mid East is better then 15 years and you start to open the doors to understanding why they all seem so extremist in the eyes of our more moderate civilization.

Could not have said it better myself.

We don't need to stand against other cultures. Just stand for our own in the way of laws, and when the two differ, it's pretty clear who's side we are on.

I don't really care what their traditions are as long as they are legal according to our laws. We don't need a culture war. Just be a country of laws and you've got it covered.

Just stand for our own in the way of laws,

That is why it is imperative we vote for the right people who believe in our constitution to govern us. Right now, our government is slipping more and more of their customs and cultures in our midst...calling it "gradualism". There was a recent meeting at the White House and there are talks considering making it a hate crime to even discuss them and their religion as we are doing right now. It is obvious this admin wants more melding of the culture in America.

May the ladies rest in peace......

U.S. Army uniforms to include Muslim headscarves, turbans?

http://www.wnd.com/2011/12/380593/

US Textbooks: Muslims Discovered America

http://patriotupdate.com/17539/us-textbooks-muslims-discovered-america#.TyC-aiz0MFQ.facebook

Homesick Yank - your first paragraph -- you have no idea what your speaking of. You're blowing it out your arse.

The BS about banning Shraria Law in the US -- it's red meat -- dog whistle -- and total BS. It also doesn't exist in Canada, etc. Attempt to research and educate yourself beyond Fox BS

I don't really care what their traditions are as long as they are legal according to our laws. We don't need a culture war. Just be a country of laws and you've got it covered.

Perfectly stated.

Explaining to them what a countries laws are will do no good at all...they believe that the koran and islamic law supercede our laws.

I believe that immigrants MUST subscribe to the laws and norms of their host country of choice. Should they not 'like' these laws, then they should stay where they are or select another country in which to start their 'new' lives. Most Western democracies prohibit many of the practices that are acceptable in Third World countries. It is a pity that the Afghan government cannot be trusted to make them all serve their life sentences in an Afghan prison - they'd let them out after three days. I hope that the Canadian government move immediately with a deportation order so that as soon as they are released from prison they travel straight back to their country of origin. Perhaps the parents and relatives of the murdered 'spouse' will have their own Afghan way of settling their honor.

tgooose— You say it wasn't that long ago that western cultures were burning women at the stake? The last person burned at the stake was in England in 1612. ( A man, by the way) 400 years ago. That is a long time to me.

Homesick Yank.

You think this sort of thing is commonplace in Canada due to our burgeoning muslim population? Do me a favour and keep your ignorance and yourself far from my home and native land ok?

Explaining to them what a countries laws are will do no good at all...they believe that the koran and islamic law supercede our laws.

Then they go to jail.

The last person burned at the stake was in England in 1612.

No, actually 100 years later, in New York ...

Several burnings at the stake are recorded, particularly following suspected slave revolt plots. In 1708, one woman was burnt and one man hanged. In the aftermath of the New York Slave Revolt of 1712, 20 people were burnt, and during the alleged slave conspiracy of 1741, no less than 13 slaves were burnt at the stake.

Edwin Hoey, "Terror in New York – 1741", American Heritage, June 1974.

But you can take that to the "cousin" of lynching and that was done by "civilized society" well into the 20th Century (Michael Donald, 1981)

Common or not in Canada, its better to stop it and put harsh penalties because this is all based on religion and once religion gets its dirty hands on government its over for the populous.

Fanatics of all religions are dangerous. I feel for the young daughters and the other wife.

I suggest you people do a little world research, this is a takeover in its early stages,you are in trouble, I guarantee they will force their will on you before you force your laws on them its their agenda to dominate the world and you invite them to do so. well let me tell you they will have you kneeling in the streets praying to their Allah and wearing berkas before you will change them. those people see no wrong in what they did and it wont stop they will just get better at it. they are cunning and they are evil.

D Buck the only infestation is people like you that refuse to understand why Arab cultures are the way they are and why it is going to take a long time to reform them.

Seriously take a class on Middle Eastern history, might do your brain some good instead of funneling in Glen Beck's, or similar person's, dribble all day long.

Actually D Buck is correct. It's liberals who think that if you cater to muslims long enough eventually they will come around. Not so. What liberals fail to understand is that most muslims are more zealous in their religious principles than even most christians. And while christians stress forgiveness, muslims can only think of "honor". It's something that most liberals don't like to think about when they think about religious tolerance. They assume that christians are the ones that are always bad and the poor muslims are always good. I hope you will learn from this.

I still think you guys you read the article "The Myth of a peaceful, moderate muslim". It is found online.

Well here you see it again,what kind of people we take in our countries, they just slaughter their own kids,tell us there is nothing wrong with it,because it's an honor deal.These peaceful Muslim people make me throw up.What the hell are we still doing there in Afghanistan haven't we seen and heart enough,my god.

There was a recent meeting at the White House and there are talks considering making it a hate crime to even discuss them and their religion as we are doing right now.

Please cite a source for that assertion? Of course, anyone can "talk", but since such a law would be in violation of the Constitution, that's all it would be ... talk.

Actually, It says nowere about those Afghan's relgion.
Clearly they arent muslims, Muslim women cover their hair, dont go to school in revealing clothes and dont date christians.

You guys should edjucated yourselves more. I'm sick of everyone who blames everything bad on Islam.

My heart goes out for the daughters and wife. RIP.

"The polygamous relationship, if revealed, could have resulted in their deportation." But MURDER allows them to stay????

"The polygamous relationship, if revealed, could have resulted in their deportation."

Yes...for breaking Canadian law.

But MURDER allows them to stay????

Yes, in prison for life.

What do you not understand about that?

to clarify, after they serve their sentences for murder, they will then be deported.

It's an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years. For the father, that is probably a true life sentence.

Apparently, Daisy would rather deport them than send them to prison.

They're not rabbits, you know!!

They are worse than rabbits!

When anyone comes to Canada, they should be assigned to spend some time in the various regions of the country first and then they can go live/hide in Toronto, and practice their chosen profession(s).

At one time in Ontario, we had pandering politicians arguing for Sharia law to be adopted as a mechanism through which Muslims could settle their problems in a culturally sensitive manner.

I remember in grade school, one of the teachers talking about how the Chinese tried to do this in California, and that other immigrant groups have also tried this. The Italian mafia just went ahead and did it, didn't petition to have their government give them the okay.

Why would the Muslim politicians think that things would be different for them?

That female muslim politicians were asking for it shows where their money came from. And had they been successful, they would have been yanked out of office and replaced with muslim men.

For the ones out there who are atheist, I will probably come off sounding like a nut, but better a nut than to live with your head up your rear. The bible speaks of the "Holy war" and to my thinking, it could already be not too far off. The muslim religion thinks we are the "great satan" We are so "politically correct" over here that we are afraid to say anything, and you can bet the muslims know that. As for it being a "Peaceful" religion This muslim in New york, I believe had a radio station where he would say what a "peaceful" religion it was and then he cut off his wifes head. And the cab driver who killed his three daughters. Their belief system is totally different from ours. I have always wondered why, if they hate our culture so much, why do they come? Can you say "infiltration? And politicians? they would dance on hot coals gor a vote.

They are not flocking to all the western nations for their health, and they do out breed Rabbits, one man multiple wives babies everywhere, oh look there's another bunch, its going to turn into a infestation that you all will wish never happened, just look at France, and the UK they are starting to wish they never opened their countries to them and there ar so many of them they don'tknow what to do and they are getting more and more demanding. they are imposing their way of life on the people that have lived their since the beginning of time. kinda like what happened to the Native American, can you spell defeated? or Concorde.

lived their since the beginning of time

Or at least since the beginning of intelligent life. The current strain of Homo Erectus has only been around for at most a million years.

In any case not all Arab immigrants are here to "infiltrate" us. Some do just come here for better lives, like the Mexican's and all other immigrant nationalities. The only ones doing the infiltrating are the extremist Muslims and terrorist cells.

Though you have a point that they are having trouble melding in with Western society in some cases, but that also takes time; it is not an over night process, it takes decades.

They also have to deal with idiots like you calling all the Arabs you meet terrorists and usurpers to their face (most likely assuming you are not like a lot of the other Arab haters here on the Vine that do not have the balls to do so in person). That causes some level of emotional trauma that has to be overcome as well.

A lot of the prejudice against them is born of two things:

1. Ignorance, arrogance, and fear. Republican propaganda factories like Glen Beck do not help either. Fear is the great manipulator, people that are fearful will believe anyone stating that they are telling the truth even if they know the person stating that is lying; that is a fact of human psychology.

2. 9/11. People are still afraid out of their minds, irrationally I might add, that any Muslim will become a backpack bomber or that we are going to be attacked again. While there is certainly the possibility of being attacked again it will happen like it did on 9/11. A small, VERY small, number of extremists will have gotten into the country, or will have been brought up in America, and will execute the attack. They might be stopped or they might not.

I know that if a christian did those things that story would be remembered for the next 10 years. But I think that most democrats will forget about this story in a matter of moments. This is not the first honor killing. How many more of these does it take for the left to realize that this is not something that will go away? You can play the political spectrum all you want, but the fact of the matter is it WAS MUSLIMS who did this, not republicans and not christians. You would not accept this if it were christians who did this nor be so understanding? Most democrats hate the fact that christians would lie to them let alone have their family members killed off, so why the double standard towards muslims?

Most democrats don't have any clue how one-sided they really are.

Actually, there are Canadians that would welcome them before Americans.

As for deport them -- you're wearing your racism on your sleeve.

I agree William's comment smacks of racism. But as to THESE particular people, "The polygamous relationship, if revealed, could have resulted in their deportation." Why is polygamy so much worse than murder? I don't get it.

Canada will probably deport them if they ever get parole.

Polygamy is not worse but it could be a reason for the murders. Fear of deportation if caught.Also after serving their sentence for the killings they will almost certainly be deported as criminal undesireables. For anybody professing a belief in God murder including abortion is the worst crime.

I'm Canadian and, just so everyone knows, most of us welcome immigrants with open arms. This is because we understand that people can do good or bad regardless of their faith. Everyone's welcome, but if you break the law you go to jail. It's really just the US that believes non-christians are inherently evil... that's why many Canadians are disgusted by Americans... ignorant, self-righteous, and hateful. This message board does a great job of justifying this belief.

And, I'm well aware this message will be collapsed... Americans can't accept criticism, and everyone knows it.

Not all of us American are like that. Only the crazy conservatives.

Rationalhuman, don't hate on Americans. We do have many redneck SOBs over here but a lot of good folks also that welcome people of all ethnicity and religion. We appreciate our neighbors to the North and despite our foreign policy we want peace gosh dang it.

Intolerance cannot be tolerated. If it is, the intolerant will rule.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.

The only thing we cannot tolerate, is intolerance itself.

ok, it has a certain ring to it.

No, you can do that! I've seen it! the problem is keeping it on him.

I think he should be free to change out of this formal attire immediately after the event. If he is attending the Oscars, he should be prepared to wear it all evening, since it's a long event, with parties afterwards. If the event is a wedding, he might only need to wear it for a few hours.

Well said Pete, that was funny man.

It's not just muslims. I lived in Vancouver, Washington decades ago, and there was a Vietnamese young woman killed by her father and brother for "shaming" the family with her choice of boyfriend.

Yeah i suppose that your right. Its not just muslims that do these crazy things but it seems like its the majotrity of them. The way they treat their women is disgusting.

Men are, but rarely killed in honor killings. These cultures think women are one notch above the family dog. You know how honorable a society is by how it treats it weakest, most vulnerable members.

In the United States, from 1976 to 2004, there were 64,329 murders committed by a domestic partner. 23,506 victims were male, 40,823 victims were female. (source www.silentwitness.net ) With statistics like these, how can anyone say it's a Muslim issue? It's much deeper and widespread than that- murder is an issue of uncontrolled rage, there are many causes, religious factors are a small percent- and certainly not confined to Islam.

domestic violence is quite different from honor killings. those murderous bas-tards are cold-blooded control freaks.

Tit your way off subject, you need to sit in the corner and wear the pointy hat. there is no comparison to crimes of passion and honor killings. this is a example of a culture, its not feed by emotion its sicker then that. its a Muslim thing.

domestic violence is quite different from honor killings. those murderous bas-tards are cold-blooded control freaks.

When you come right down to it, I would imagine that most deaths of women at the hands of their partner can be traced "control". How often do we read of men going on a rampage and killing their "estranged spouse"? Why do they kill them? Because those women are not around to be controlled any more.

The necessity of separation of church and state is being vocally swept under the rug. GET READY FOR WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. Stretch

Guys, just a point of fact, there is no separation of church and state in the constitution.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

However, the establishment clause was further explained in a letter by Jefferson to a Baptist congregation and that has been ruled on time and again by the SCOTUS. There is separation of church and state and just because some people want to rewrite history doesn't make it so. Bigger question: Who wouldn't want it seeing what happens in other countries? The ruling religious views may not be yours!

Agewithout wisdom you want to read that line to the federal judge in San Antonio who thinks it is his right to restrict what students can say in their graduation speeches. Especially the part about prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

sounds like the judge didn't read the constitution. if the freedom of religion part didnt cover it then surely the freedom of speach should apply.

That restriction in Texas was regarding prayers during a public (repeat, public) high school graduation. The judge was correct in his decision. If the students want to pray, they can do it on private property or go to a religious high school.

It's not the religion that twists peoples minds, its the heart!!!!

Educate yourself as to Eastern culture. It is more than Islamic cultures that carry this out. The fact that so many refer to it as 'Islamic' tells me far too many people have a TV that never changes channels from Fox BullS...

Why don't you take your BS case with FOX News as totally wrong and stick it up your libsuck rear.Why lambast the News?MSNBC is supposed to be more non-opinionated?Since when?It looks as though they want Mitt Romney soooo bad that they can't wait for the election.WTF?We don't need only lib news.We need more open minds!

srs ... I guess meede's statement hit too close to home for you. Not overly sensitive, are you?

All he (she?) did was to point out that "honor killings" are not unique to the Islamic world.

Who are these "liberal judges?" In what cases have "they" allowed Sharia law in the US? No cites to newspapers or Fox News, please. If the case isn't published just give me the LEXIS or Westlaw number.

I eagerly await your proof.

Here you go, Yeah?

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/article1158818.ece

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/100725

http://www.thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=119&_function=detail&sbtblct_uid1=877

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-five/transcript/judge-rules-american-courts-can-use-sharia-law

No sites to news links? How ELSE do you expect the stories to be told? And just to set the record straight once and for all, it's not US LAW that is being modified into Sharia Law. It's judges (liberals) taking Sharia Law INTO ACCOUNT in their decision making. Big difference that you should be capable of deciphering.

What? Where?

Jhawke,

The Tampa Bay article concerns things that are being taught in a Mosque and is APPROPRIATE for those things to be left to the religious authorities in a religion. Unless you want the Government coming into your CHURCH and telling your church what can be taught as to tenants and practices of your religion.

The next two article are hardly news organizations and in fact have a very blatant agenda - one is promoted to SOCIAL conservative ideology and the other is a group out to defend the Christian faith. Those are HARDLY objective pieces of reporting.

Your fourth link is for Fox "news" which has admitted they are NOT a News organization but instead are providing ENTERTAINMENT. Again, not a reliable source since they freely admit they do not report news.

Try again with unbiased sources reporting Sharia Law being allowed for things outside of the Mosque - like divorce settlements, family law, criminal law etc. The fact that you couldn't on the first try speaks volumes.

Cat where do you live federal judges already try to restrict the content of speeches by Christian students? Don't believe me google Texas and free speech together.And the DOJ has already declared some speech as arrestable offences at anti-abortion rallies.

@Jhawke, nice citing resources without actually fact checking them.

Link #1 is a civil trial over a Mosque, and there were no legally binding documents to cover the running of said Mosque. So all it boils down to is an arbitration case between two men.

Link #2 Here is the actual case behind it. The case was overturned because the Judge incorrectly ruled that since the criminal trial was still open the woman didn't need a restraining order from her husband.

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?page=1&xmldoc=in%20njco%2020100723325.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr&SizeDisp=7

Link #3 Here is the actual legal case for this one. This has absolutely nothing to do with Sharia law. The product that they offer, being disputed, is the same as the all other Conflict of Interest free products that they sell. I.e They don't buy stocks in pork or liquor companies. Just like the product they sell to accounting firms that do not invest in the accounting firm's customers.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/michigan/miedce/2:2008cv15147/235630/92/0.pdf?1295081775

Link #4 This links to the exact same case as for link #1.

It really looks to me like someone, that has no actual understanding in real law, is attempting to create controversy where there really isn't any. Sharia law will never have a foothold in the US, because we have actual laws. Though it is a good argument to keep the US government completely secular, even from other religious whack jobs.

lonereb, I believe you are referring to the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act. The law makes it a federal crime to use force, the threat of force, or physical obstruction to prevent people from obtaining or providing reproductive health care services. FACE Act was passed because violence and blockades at clinics were escalating against abortion health care providers and patients cumulating in the murder of one doctor outside of his clinic and the attempted murder of another outside of his clinic as well.

Some states, like Colorado, have buffer laws, which prevent counseling, displaying signs, or distributing leaflets within 8 feet of others without consent when within 100 feet of a health-clinic. The law was passed in Colorado because abortion patients complained of being spat on, kicked, and harassed outside of abortion clinics.

Quit playing the victim card as if protesters at abortion clinics don't harass and prey on the insecurities of women under the guise of free speech. And quit pretending like Christians are targeted as if they're some powerless minority in America. I've seen protesters at these clinics and it's tense. I remember one protester taunting a woman who was smoking outside of the clinic "you don't mind killing yourself with cigarettes just like you killed your baby, right?" That kind of predatory and deplorable use of free speech is second only to the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at dead soldier's funerals.

So let me get this straight- you feel your rights are violated when you can't threaten violence towards patients or providers outside of a health-clinic?

As Killdrgn pointed out, Link #4 refers to a civil matter. Since both parties agreed to abide by sharia law, the situation is no different than when a company writes a contract where both parties agree to settle disputes according to New York law (for example), regardless of where the parties actually reside and regardless of where the trial or arbitration is held.

Jewish law has been applied for years in New York in divorce cases, where BOTH parties agree and when the outcome is not in violation of NY or federal law. No one has been screaming about that.

The real concern would be if sharia law was applied in a criminal case.

Honor killings predate the Koran. Mohammed said that a woman should chose her own husband, and he, her. Society there says that "honor your father and mother" trumps all other teachings. Tradition there also defines "honor" as strict, mindless obedience to the traditions.

A number of clerics are against honor killings, but there is no Pope and their prophet's been gone off the planet for a long time, so there's no one in charge. Loud-mouth traditionalists have the bullhorns and the bullys are with them.

(Tradition holds that he went up to heaven instead of dying. They also teach that Jesus didn't die, but was taken up to heaven.)

"Honor Killings" unfortunately appear in more than just Islamic cultures.

Here is an interesting quote from a local article during the trial:

According to Dr. Shahrzad Mojab, a University of Toronto professor of women’s studies, followers of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity have used their religions as a rationale to commit honour killings. However, Mojab stated that honor killings don't have "any definite connection with religion at all." She also pointed out that honor killings have been practised before any major religion came into existence.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/honour-killings-rooted-in-control-and-cleansing-kingston-trial-hears/article2260536/

A Christian version of an honor killing was, if a daughter was preggers without husband, to toss her out of the family and on her own. One of the women I worked with had that experience in the 1940's when she was 16. She may as well have died as far as her parents were concerned; she'd ruined the family name.

ElkMeadow - Excuse me, but disowning someone and killing them are two very different things!!!

Yes her parens were upset and told her to get out of the house but they did no honor killing,they did not kill her like like she was nothing,so this is a complete differand story isn't it.

The "crappy" country they come from is Saudi Arabia... You know the country that owns 12% of your "crappy" country and whose king is best friends with the Bush family...

So Redman, they got the headline wrong? The one that says "Afghan family..." But in the end, does it really matter which Muslim country they hail from?

This is not really a religious thing but a cultural one, there is no mention in the Koran in support of honor killing.. It is prevalent in heavily misogynistic cultures of several different religions. The act of "honor" killing is about patriarchal family control female family members lives and is not an innately religious act. No matter what your faith this kind of action has to be completely vilified (like it has been in this case by a Canadian Jury) by the state and no support should be given to anyone who would kill their children to protect a 7th century concept of "honor".

YOU HAVE MY VOTE...

SHARIA LAW IS A LIE,and "the prophet" who had multiple preteen wives was nothing more than a rapist.Good deeds dont justify his actions.EVER.You don't kill a girls husband then take her to have kids with you.That being with a 13yo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote from Quaran :" A woman's heaven is under her husband's feet" ....read this muslin women pls

Sharia law never stood a chance, check out the sentences and give your head a shake. They are going to jail for life and your fear mongering has nothing to do with the outcome that clearly says these people were dead wrong.

Why you think it is "Sharia Law seems alive and well" is a mystery to anyone who can read. These people have been found to be murders and did it according to no law, that is why they are going to jail for a long long time.

"Killing your sisters/daughters over an imagined concept. What on Earth is wrong with these people?" - you know eh? What's better is killing a whole countries sisters/daughters/sons/brother over "imagined" WMD. That is much better right?

Do you see how stoopid you Americans come off when you get all upset over an honor killing but somehow justify murdering hundreds of thousand of Iraqis?!

Can your teevee watching mush, brain comprehend how hypocritical that is?!

Of course Redman there is a great difference with us going to IraQ to oust Saddam Hussein, and someone murdering their own flesh and blood family members.

Also Iraq's were not intentionally murdered, as it was a war, and there is always collateral damage, and death in any war , if you fight to win.

However, my take on this is that we did the wrong thing in Iraq, because it took the violence and and a monster like Hussein to control all the other crazy muslim monsters. They have been fighting since human history began, and will until the end. It is in their blood.

Use your brain, and do not feel sorry for ANY muslim as they are all brainwashed from birth and indoctrinated in to the CULT called islam. It is in "no way, a religion", and when the rest of the world accepts this, we will then make progress.

Redman,

Your history is as faulty as your grammar. It shouldn't take much to justify killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, or Pakis, or Palestinians, ad nauseum.

porsche ... how many Muslims do you know? Seriously ... how many of these "brainwashed" hordes have you ever sat with and gotten to know?

Yes the USA should pay very good attention of what happened next door in Canada,if we don't they will run us over like a fright train,you live here then you follow our laws,and we Americans should make sure this will never, ever change. Canada did a good job,and the US should not forget this.

,BUT NO RELIGION shall promote violence,and mutilations,crusades,

Er, Phil ...

It WAS Christianity that promoted the crusades. The crusades were ordered by the Pope against the Muslims. That's what a crusade was.

However, although your historical facts are totally screwed, I do agree with your sentiment NO RELIGION should promote violence. I repeat NO RELIGION.

It WAS Christianity that promoted the crusades. The crusades were ordered by the Pope against the Muslims. That's what a crusade was.T

The Crusades were designed to TAKE BACK lands that were conquered by the Muslims. And to plunder of course.

Beth the crusades came immediatly after the Moors ( muslims) invaded Spain and cut the heads off the captured barbarian Goths who had been living there when Julius Ceasar was a centurion. And then their were those lovely Turks also muslim who invaded Austria and attempted to starve out Vienna. Pope Clement (crusades pope) requested help from Poland to relieve Vienna. Maybe a little self defense there,huh

Dear Beth,

The conclusions one makes are dependent on the volume,accuracy, and capacity to order the available facts. Revisionist history is misleading by design! Here are some often ignored, but easily available facts. The first crusade was undertaken by caliph Omar( Umar)in 637. He swept thru the middle and near east with an army frequently referred to as the muslim horde. He captured over 4000 cities killing millions of people simply because of their refusal to convert to islam from either Judaism or Christianity! These people were men , women, and children of all ages. The weapon of choice was the scimitar, sound familiar? A combination of over 30,000 synagogues, and Christian churches were destroyed, or converted to mosques! The most notable of these being Solomons temple in Jerusalem, where they built the dome of the rock. I defer to make a judgement, but history at the least shows that the jews and christians had a prior claim !You will not find the concept of honor killig in either of those two!

I'm quite clear as to what the Crusades were ... the history and what they were in reaction to. I was commenting on the OP's lack of historical accuracy ... I never commented on the the cause and/or effect of them.

n 1095 an assembly of churchmen called by Pope Urban II met at Clermont, France. Messengers from the Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus had urged the pope to send help against the armies of Muslim Turks. On November 27 the pope addressed the assembly and asked the warriors of Europe to liberate the Holy Land from the Muslims.

http://history-world.org/crusades.htm

The Crusades were expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedantyranny.

The origin of the word may be traced to the cross made of cloth and worn as a badge on the outer garment of those who took part in these enterprises.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm

As you can see the term "Crusade" is clearly CHRISTIAN ... which was the point of my post ... that and to agree that NO RELIGION (or anyone else) should promote violence!

Some additional information on honor killings. Start with reading the article linked at #16.2.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4002085,00.html

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/?q=node/2937

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jun/23/israel

The "Concept" of honor killing is clearly in the Old Testament of the Bible --

Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

The the main point, as in the article I referred you to, is that honor killings were CULTURAL in nature and NOT religious in nature, in fact, they pre-date most of the world's established religions INCLUDING -- Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

Your reading of this biblical content is wrong plus your analogy is out in left field some where on moon! What predates the main three religions predates them. Until everyone wakes up and see's that these religions were invented and run by men from their conception... then the truth shall make you free.

Multiculturalism is a failure in Canada. Anyone that enters our free revolving door for a better life can't just say I'm a Canadian except I'm a This Canadian or That Canadian. The Muslim communities better police and educate their own in the ways of what ever western country they may plan to live.

No, my "reading" is just as valid as yours. That's the fun part -- when it comes to interpreting the Bible there is no right or wrong, it's all an opinion.

But ironically, for the most part, in attacking me, you've pretty much said the same thing I have.

I agree religions were run by men ... and I do mean MEN. But honor killings were cultural that were picked up by the religions to what? Subjugate women of course.

I also agree that immigrants to ANY country should obey the laws of that country or suffer the consequences and that NO religion should condone violence.

What problem of all that did you have trouble understanding from my previous posts?????

No attack intended, just an opp. to disseminate info. However, prior to last nites sensitivity lesson, I was unaware that the term, purpose, and definition of " crusade" was relative ONLY to white europeans or their progeny!

These murders were done by people who happened to be Muslim not because they were Muslim. This criminal act was a cultural not religious.

Master Mind-2717536

Multiculturalism is a failure in Canada. Anyone that enters our free revolving door for a better life can't just say I'm a Canadian except I'm a This Canadian or That Canadian

II disagree with you wholeheartedly and do not see how this particlar issue supports your premise. The sentence handed down and this case does nothing but contradict your spin. The girls were murdered by their closed minded backward father for becoming "too Canadian" which suggests that they were assimilating here. That they were in a family that held onto 7th century positions was their downfall but it was hardly a failure of multiculturalism. Because he lived in Canada they were punished appropriately and multiculturalism did not fail the victims here.

There will always be people who want to attack and demean groups of immigrants because they are different and in every case the concerns of the people who cry loudest are shown as baseless. There are many hard working good people who immigrate here and that they are stricter than the average 3rd generation family should not be surprising or alarming.

As long as they follow the laws of their adopted country anyone can think what they want. The parents may always hold views that are not the same as the average Canadian but you have to know their children will be less strict their folks from back home were. The third generation children will be completely assimilated having only a hint of the motherland as has always been the case. That is the way it works for any cultural group that settles in the west and will continue to for this newest batch of people from a foreign place.

Kinda naive

However, prior to last nites sensitivity lesson, I was unaware that the term, purpose, and definition of " crusade" was relative ONLY to white europeans or their progeny!

Crusades, capitalized, definitely is. Just as Holocaust, capitalized, refers to WWII.