One solution, which of course no one will like would be to turn Jerusalem into a city state rather like Vatican City. That would mean that everyone (Muslims, Jews, Christians, plus the various sectarian Odds and Sods) would have to mind their P's and Q's or they'd find portable toilets from the other religious groups emptied onto their most holy of sites. But after a glorious sh**storm which would last all of two weeks, these folks might learn that most elusive of blessings - religious tolerance.

Aww come on now? ''it would leave Jerusalem on the "Israeli" side of the border.'' that means the Muslims will not be able to turn it into a paradise like Iraq,Libya,Syria,Afghanistan,Somalia and Yemen! Everything Islam touches turns into death and destruction.

Taking Jerusalem from both sides and making it a UN protectorate would seem to me to be the only path to peace. Access needs to be guaranteed to both sides with no weapons allowed in the city other than the UN's.

@softdude

the problem with your logic is that israel would be ceding something whereas the palis would not. east jerusalem was annexed after a war was lost. to the victor go the spoils. had egypt, syria, et al not thrown every armament to the borders with israel as a hostile show of agression, there would not have been a war for them to lose, and they would still have east j. they made their bed...

Many posters miss the point entirely. No matter what deal is eventually brokered, the conflict will continue. This is inevitable because there are those Muslims that will never allow peace to come to this region. They will rage on with the usual rhetoric about destroying the Jewish state, and if eventually somehow successful, with no Jews left to slaughter, they will turn on each other.

Aww come on now? ''it would leave Jerusalem on the "Israeli" side of the border.'' that means the Muslims will not be able to turn it into a paradise like Iraq,Libya,Syria,Afghanistan,Somalia and Yemen! Everything Islam touches turns into death and destruction.

Careful. Pointing out the obvious like this will get you labelled an islamaphobe.

@raz, that however is only recognized by israel, no other country does

Ironic how obvious the land grab is to everyone else but the Jews, Just because some human created book transcribed by human scribes gives one religious construct/belief a supposed claim to property is so silly. If you don't like your neighbor move, don't send in the mussod to kill their whole family.

Jews and Muslims are like the Muslims and Christians of the European Crusades, and look how history laughs at how stupid and childish that fight was...

This whole my God can beat up your God is so asinine I cannot wait until you all blow yourselves to kingdom come and we can all move on;

unless this is all less about a silly religion than it is about land and power which is of course what this really is about. Th US needs a friend in that swath of oil rich region and the Jews needed a place free from persecution so they did what the Puritans did; moved into a region that was inhabited by a native people whom initially accepted them.

Once the Puritans began abusing this naive generosity then the Puritans wiped out the natives (read, Native Americans).

So as history has already told us about colonization one must wipe out the native inhabitants (read, Palestinians) by constant expansion (settlements) and choking off national identification of the indigenous peoples.

And of course none of this would have been possible without the support of the colonization prone British and Corporate (Rothschilds/Rockefellers and other oil and arms dealers) controlled American Government post WWII.

You all have fun with that, just call a spade a spade.

Here we go again. (Every Jew a history major)

One problem with your assumption, I'm not Jewish.

I'll go even further than my previous statement and say that Jerusalem has no importance within Islam at all.

Realistically it was a way of blocking a peace deal without appearing to be responsible for doing so, it's a version of the big lie technique.

The City of Jerusalem is known as the City of David. ( A Jewish City) The last time a muslim country had control over East Jerusalem (Jordan), the Jewish sites were desecrated and all non-muslims were banned.

What do you think is going to happen if the Palestinians gain control of Jerusalem? Most likely the same thing. Both Christians and Jews will be banned and Jewish site will be desecrated.

I feel the West Bank should go entirely to the Palestinians, but not East Jerusalem. Gaza only after Hamas is removed.

I understand the Palestinians want their own homeland. But Israel needs to protect its borders. Syria and Iran are eager to destroy Israel. Now with the Clerics in Turkey and Egypt gaining control and trying to get Sharia law in place. Israel will soon have two more eager enemies.

Another Fine Mess.........I AGREE WITH YOU..

MUSLIMS are a "johnny come laterly religion"

They started their islamic/muslim religion well after the jewish religion.

MAYBE the leaders saw a DOLLAR in it and decided to follow suit

Did you know they used to worship the moon??

When I first read i thought your kidding...BUT NO.. it's true..

I think maybe the moon affected them...

Jerusalem has been a Arab city for over 1000 years.

"If we are not able to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs, then we have learned nothing in our two thousand years of suffering, and deserve the fate which will befall us."

- Albert Einstein.

While it may no longer be in an "atlas" Palestine has been recognized as a nation for > 2000 years.Rome had a Palestinian consulate offering full ambassadorial services up until c. 60 yrs ago.

Zionists are pro at distorting facts.

So what is the basis of their claim, is it the night journey and the Al-Aqsa Mosque?

If so then it's terribly flawed

Muhammad died in AD632

The Mosque wasn't built until AD705-715

You do the math!

Richard

Did you know they used to worship the moon??

The worship of Allah in the region predates Islam and unlike the term used by the Jews "Elohim" it can't refer to any other God so it suggests it's a true name and not just a word meaning God. In pre-Islamic times Allah was one amongst many Gods worshiped, he had two daughters and coexisted with the worship of the Hebrew God so I would suggest that there is no real connection between the two despite what Muhammad claimed.

Moe

Jerusalem has been a Arab city for over 1000 years.

But never a capital, for most of it's history the Muslims ignored it.

The Roman Emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province from Judaea to Syria Palaestina after a Jewish revolt, the name change was designed to eradicate the Jewish historical links with the area.

It wasn't a nation 2,000 years ago it was a Roman province.

Pure ignorance. May I suggest you go to Juan Cole's Blog "Informed Comment", he will set you straight, because you are mistaken.

The Palestinians have never recognized Israel's right to exist. So why do they want East Jerusalem, and Israel to retreat to the 67 Borders? Because giving up those lands gives the Palestinians a foothold in what Israel sees as their capital, and the 67 borders are indefensible. The Palestinians will not attack Israel, but Hamas Hezbollah, Syria and Iran would. And don't count out the newly created Egypt as an aggressor, to attempt to wipe out their shame of 1948, 56, 67 and 73.

It's not about the land. It's about the elimination of Israel. The Arabs are ashamed of their continual losses to Israel, and Israel's successes in medicine, technology, economy, agriculture and on the battlefield. In Arab eyes, redemption will only occur when Israel is gone. And the Palestinians are the perfect "tool" of the Arabs. The Palestinians are kept in refugee camps as pawns against Israel oppression. What country is accused as an oppressor that has been attacked continually since creation?

The Palestinians need to stop listening to radical Arabs and Muslims, terrorists, and Iran and take this deal. They will regret not taking it, as they regret not accepting the 1948 deal. Think about it. In 48, the Palestinians wanted more and they ended up in refugee camps while Jordan took the West Bank, Syria took Golan and Egypt to Sanai and Gaza. Who lost?

Moslems believe Jesus, Moses were prophets just like Mohammad. Jerusalem is important for them too. Moslems used to turn to Jerusalem to pray before Mecca.

Mike

It helps if you say who you're referring to

If you mean me

It was a Roman province this is a matter of historical fact

The name was changed this is a matter of historical fact.

Muhammad did die long before the mosque was built, I would suggest it was given that name purposefully to insert it retrospectively into the Quran for political reason.

Elohim can be used to refer to other Gods or powers, Allah can't.

Allah was worshipped before the advent of Islam and said worship coexisted with Judaism and Christianity so how can it be a continuance of either.

I'm agnostic but from a Christian point of view accepting Muhammad as a prophet of the same God negates at least two central pillars of the Christian faith.

Mike

Moslems believe Jesus, Moses were prophets just like Mohammad. Jerusalem is important for them too.

That they believe there is a link doesn't make it true the only evidence that this is so comes from the Quran and that is the word of one man. There is no historical link before they conquered the city.

Muslims used to turn to Jerusalem to pray before Mecca.

Yes for the first 6 months or so in an attempt to win Jewish converts, this only proves that Muhammad was willing to alter his religion to gain converts, only it didn't work, hence the change to Mecca.

If Allah blesses the souls of suicide bombers, then Allah is an ar**hole.

Mike

Show me historical or archaeological evidence that the pre-Islamic worship of Allah had any links to either Judaism or Christianity.

Moe

How did Islam take control Jerusalem. They took it bye force around 700 AD.

The City of Jerusalem was a Jewish city for over 1,800 years prior to the Muslim invasion of 700 AD.

Islam desecrated the Jewish temple in 700 AD by placing their mosque right on top of it. Islam does not respect other religions.

Did Christians or Jews every destroy the Jerusalem mosque on the temple Mount when they where in control. NO this was done out of respect. Islam does not respect anyone but them selfs

Sharia Law, states all non-mulsims are to be either killed or enslaved.

The Americans have no religious or historical claims to America

It's fairly disruptive when your home land is

Jordan and Egypt.

"It's fairly disruptive when your home land is overrun by Communist terrorists from eastern Europe as part of some international apartheid "Zionist" plot."

You're right, that sounds awful.

I'm glad that has nothing to do with this.

The Majority of Palestinians in this world have always lived in Jordan. Why don't the Palestinians just make Jordan their Homeland?

Because it is a law in Muslim countries that if you are Palestinian you cannot emigrate there. Should you sneak over the border and live there your entire life and even have children there, your descendents (x infinity) will never be able to receive citizenship under any circumstance.

Eric- NY : The majority of Israelis have always lived in Europe, US or Russia. Why don't they make it their homeland?

Josh11024072

One of the alternatives following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War was to use the confiscated German East African colony Uganda as a new Jewish homeland. We can laugh now, but the idea was not THAT stupid.

Josh

The majority of Israelis have always lived in Europe, US or Russia. Why don't they make it their homeland?

Historically the Jews of Europe and Russia kept being persecuted and murdered by their God fearing Christian neighbours.

Another Fine Mess, you might want to take a long hard look at why that is.

Eric- NY : The majority of Israelis have always lived in Europe, US or Russia. Why don't they make it their homeland?

because, ERIC, if you hadn't noticed, every country/ region, with the exception of the US, that you note has one time or another tried to exterminate the jews. THAT is why they wish for their own homeland. a sanctuary of sorts where they may practice self determination. if they are attacked, they may finally defend.



John

Another Fine Mess, you might want to take a long hard look at why that is.

Primarily because of religious intolerance, ignorance, bigotry and hatred. The Jews were blamed for killing Jesus, the fact that Jesus was Jewish never occurred to these brain damaged morons.

Riiiight John - because Christian-Muslim history is full of brotherly love. Oh, and Hindu-Muslim history is also known for mutual understanding and respect. Muslim-Sikh too. Christians were really good to all all those pagan tribes in Europe - converted or killed the lot of them. Atheists hate all other religions, that's the point. They blame religion for most of the world's problems. Small groups of Jews seemed to have survived in India without problem for a long time. India and Israel have close and growing ties now. They only thing preventing more open support from India is an attempt to appear the 100 million Muslims living there. A Jewish community even existed in China until about a century ago when it essentially melded into the general chinese population. Examples of Shintoists, Confusians, Druids, and Mayans are just idiotic. Druids and Mayans never met Jews and never wrote about them. Japanese and Chinese are naturally ethnocentric and dislike most outsiders, but have no specific dislike of Jews more than any other group.

Regarding Christians and Muslims in particular, funny how both religions and some of their offshoots - like protestants - hated Jews so much in the beginning that they tried to appeal heavily to Jews to try to convert them to their faiths. Hatreds usually began after Jews refused. Martin Luther is a prime example of someone who initially liked Jews, but became angered when they would not convert.

Somehow, I doubt you actually care about a history lesson, though. Usually people who come up with baseless and foolish statements rarely care about facts. They only care about their seething, irrational hatred.

Oh and here is an excerpt which shows just how "bad" interfaith relations are between Indian and Israel - this includes an interesting statement from an Indian-Muslim as well.

In August 2007, a delegation of the All India Organisation of Imams and Mosques led by Maulana Jamil Ilyas visited Israel. The Israel visit followed a trip by Jewish rabbis to Delhi for an inter-faith meeting.[82] Maulana Ilyas said

We are coming with the message of peace and goodwill from Indian Muslims who believe in the Indian tradition of resolving issues through dialogue and peaceful means," said Ilyasi, who is the leader of 500,000 imams across India. Our visit to Israel will be historical in terms of developing a dialogue between Judaism and Islam in the Indian subcontinent, where more than 40 percent of the world's Muslim population lives. Interaction with both Palestinian and Jewish sisters and brothers and their religious leadership will lay a solid foundation for future engagement.[82]

Ilyasi claimed Israel treats Muslims better than India does: "I was pleasantly surprised to know that the Sharia (Islamic law) is being supported by the Israeli government; whereas, in India, only local Muslims implement it. That is unique." Ilyasi was apparently referring to the existence of government-sanctioned Islamic courts in the Israeli justice system, which handle marriage, divorce and conversion issues for Muslim Israelis. Similar religious courts exist for Jews and Christians.[83] The visit was organised by the American Jewish Council. The visit was touted as a dialogue of democracies.[84] The world's first Jewish-Hindu interfaith leadership summit, spearheaded by Hindu organizations in India and Jewish organizations in Israel, as well as the American Jewish Committee, was held in New Delhi on February 2007. The chief Rabbi of Israel, Yona Metzger, was actively involved in the dialogue, together with Swami Dayanand Saraswati. They stated that "The Jewish and Hindu communities are committed to the ancient traditions of Judaism and Hindu dharma respectively, and have both, in their own ways, gone through the painful experiences of persecution, oppression and destruction."[85] Mertzger quoted:

"For thousands of years we have marched on parallel causes and have now built bridges of cooperation between the two religions. Jews have lived in India for over 2000 years and have never been discriminated against. This is something unparalleled in human history".[86]

A second Hindu-Jewish summit took place in Jerusalem in February 2008. There, the Jewish delegation accepted that true Hindus accept One Supreme Being and do not think that the representations used in worship are idols.[87] Despite snowy weather in Jerusalem, the Hindu delegation visited and said their prayers at the Kotel, also known as the Western Wall, one of the holiest sites for Jews.[88]

In June 2009, another Hindu-Jewish interfaith meet was held in New York and Washington. The International Hindu-Jewish Leadership Dialogue was hosted by the American Jewish Committee, the Hindu American Foundation, and the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha and was sponsored by the World Council of Religious Leaders. It began with a lunch and presentations amid saffron-robed swamis, dark-suited rabbis, and Hindu lay leaders wearing lapel pins combining the Israeli, Indian, and American flags.[87]

Yo Doc you make some good point in post #4.13 but in the interests of fairness I’d like to say that not all atheists hate all religions, it’s more of a case that they just don’t trust religion, especially when it comes to politics and other forms of social policy. I’d also say that they hate the way most religious people are always trying to convert them and how religious people always assume that they have the moral high ground just because they believe in a god/gods. Other than that it’s really down to the Indivigial.

PS whilst I admit that most atheists do blame religion for all wars I think they are both right and wrong in such claims, I think they are wrong because wars are the result of political actions (politics by other means as it were) but at the same time I think they are right (well partly) because if you take out the “divine” aspect of religion what you are left with is a political system.

{Sigh} - I have nothing against atheists. I was responding with some frustration towards an obvious racist and was trying to prove a point. At least atheists try to judge people as individuals and tend to remove religion from the equation. This tends to give them some high ground in the area of logic.

thank you Tyler :)

I realize that some will demand a full return of the West Bank to the Palestinians,

I agree with the thrust of your post save for two points.

1) You can't give back that which was never possessed of in the first place, the Palestinians would be gaining a homeland, not getting one back.

2) The fact that the Israelis fought for the land isn't overly important when reaching a just settlement.

Agreeing the the above would remove all of he settlements, outposts and Israeli troops beyond the barrier which would mean moving tens of thousands of Israeli settlers but this has been done before in Gaza so whilst this is quite a large compromise on the part of the Israelis, it is doable.

You are right about the Palestinians never actually owning the land, but there listing as occupied territories means that to the international community they might as well have, plus the original british plan was to give the palestinians a nation. Even so, that last part can be thrown out by the very fact that the Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza were then annexed into neighboring arab nations. Thus you are right that the Palestinians would not be getting land returned to them, it would be a homeland for the first time, even though the international community doesn't seem to view it that way.

On your second point, the fact that israel controls the territories was more of the point than the fact that they had to fight over them. The Israeli military could at any point move in and take back what freedoms they have given the Palestinians, I was trying to explain more to the people who constantly say that Israel is the source of all the problems that they do hold all the cards and as such Abbas and his government do need to make some concessions.

Overall i think we are in agreement, now if only Abbas and Netanyahu could do the same

Overall i think we are in agreement, now if only Abbas and Netanyahu could do the same

Yes, I think we are but I'm not overly certain that either of them can deliver, not because they're bad people but due to internal politics. The Palestinians deserve a homeland and the Israelis deserve to live in peace but there are elements in both camps that aren't willing to cede anything, I honestly feel this is the most realistic option available for both sides.

Sadly you are completely right, this article mentions that Netanyahu's government would collapse if this was actually implemented, and Abbas saw uproars last year when wikileaks let it out that his party had agreed to forfeit some land with the last israeli administration. Minor members of both groups will do their very best to insure that this never happens, even though this seems like a fair deal for all involved.

Sadly you are completely right, this article mentions that Netanyahu's government would collapse if this was actually implemented

It all depends on their personal courage and integrity, either way it won't end the violence but it could go along way to guaranteeing a future for both peoples.

Bob-814051 GOOD TRY BOB

BUT.......you can't have peace with MULIMS

THEY ARE FANATICS

WORSHIPPING THE MOON HAS GONE TO THEIR HEADS

Richard, Moslems never worhshipped the moon.

i bet garland too much math turned you dumb. you can't even spell muslims and you claim to know their religion and who they worship. lmao we should keep you in the zoo and you bet lots of people will pay to see you. since there were never any bonehead like you.

Bob-814051,

What you say may be true, but first consider that modern and current International law clearly states that you do NOT gain territory by militarily conquering it.

The agreed upon borders were the pre-1967 border. How about BOTH sides agree that they will start with those borders, then make some changes, with each side giving here and there, and each side accepting changes?

Oh, and Another Fine Mess (among others), one of the main reasons Muslims (not just Palestinians, but all Muslims) consider Jerusalem to be important is that they believe Mohammed ascended to heaven from atop what we now call the Temple Mount. And Rome? It was a pagan city (in the viewpoint of Xians) until well after Constantine transferred the Capital of the Roman Empire to Byzantium, and then renamed the city after himself. St. Peter's Basilica? The original St. Peter's was originally constructed on orders of Emperor Constantine, sometime between 323 and 333 of the Common Era, and wasn't completed until about 30 years after construction began. The current St. Peter's? Groundbreaking for the Basilica was on April 18, 1506. It was completed on November 18, 1626. Your Jebus was born near (plus or minus a few years) zero BCE/CE, and is supposed to have died about 33 years later. Do the math.

Mike

Do the math.

Why would I bother I'm not a Christian.

Oh, and Another Fine Mess (among others), one of the main reasons Muslims (not just Palestinians, but all Muslims) consider Jerusalem to be important is that they believe Mohammed ascended to heaven from atop what we now call the Temple Mount.

It was I believe a two part trip but the location of the farthest mosque isn't given, would you care to show me where it says in the Quran that it was in Jerusalem?

@bob814

where i agree with your points to a point :), do you really think that this will achieve peace?

there is a small problem with the PLO's and hamas' charters that call for the utter destruction of israel. how do you deal with that lopsided morsel?

Mike

The agreed upon borders were the pre-1967 border.

This is entirely wrong, these weren't borders they were ceasefire lines, the borders were meant to be set later but they never were.

According to the UN, the armistice agreements were based on military considerations and do not prejudice the rights, claims and positions of the parties with regard to the settlement of the Palestinian Question.

According to the UN and international laws, Israel does not have a valid claim to the West Bank or Jerusalem. It doesn't matter if they had a history there 2000 years ago or not. The Jews left and the Arabs stayed, settled the land and built towns. Israel started the 1967 war, in order to conquer and steal those lands. International law forbids countries from taking land by conquest.

“The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”

Was the 1967 war defenisve? — continued

“I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68

Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights

“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.

And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997

The history of Israeli expansionism

“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan; one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today. But the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” David Ben-Gurion, in 1936, quoted in Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.”

Case Closed - the Jews lose

They tore nothing down that belonged to someone elses religion.

If this is so could you explain why 19 synagogues were destroyed in Gaza after the Israelis pulled out?

At the beginning of the Al-Aqsa Intifada, Joseph's Tomb was destroyed by Palestinians. The Palestinians have preserved nothing, that's why they have nothing.

@jarvis

are you high or just stupid? any time that the arabs have been in control of christian and jewish antiquities they have destroyed them, or at least have attempted to do so. when jerusalem was controlled by the arabs, all christian and jewish sites were off limits.

you are either a muslim and a liar, or seriously, seriously misinformed.

The Jewish sites are still in Jerusalem, are they not? Jarvis is correct and as usual, the Zionists are busy spreading hate and bending the truth. Jewish sites were all fine and dandy, until the Jews started wars of aggression, in order to take Arab land for European Jews.

Why should the Palestinians have any regard for the people who have taken their land. The Israelis should be punished for their greed and their murderous ways.

“In violation of international law, Israel has confiscated over 52 percent of the land in the West Bank and 30 percent of the Gaza Strip for military use or for settlement by Jewish civilians...From 1967 to 1982, Israel’s military government demolished 1,338 Palestinian homes on the West Bank. Over this period, more than 300,000 Palestinians were detained without trial for various periods by Israeli security forces. “Intifada: The Palestinian Uprising Against Israeli Occupation,” ed. Lockman and Beinin.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

jim-4302953

I agree, Jewish extremists are even bigger ar**holes than Islamic extremists and potentially more trouble, and it is time that the West forgot about that little piece of political correctness. Because you are an Extremist, you cannot hide behind your Jewish faith and claim some sort of blanket immunity from censure and intolerance.

Or else the angry sky god will have a tizzy.

The Palestinians will never accept if it does not include East Jerusalem. So there lies the problem. There will be no peace, not now...but never. Its not the fault of Israelis nor the Palestinians, it is just the way God designed that place.

Much like how the Jews hold Israel dear to their heart, Muslims (and to a large extent Christians) hold the same. You don't believe me, just open a Qur'an and see how many times the word Israel is mentioned. You will be amazed.

Basically Israel offers an impossible peace and they know it.

Why are the Arabs so hell-bent on Jerusalem?, Build a new capital. to replace the one they (we) built in Rahmallah

Brazil built a new capital and they are non the worse for all the trauma incurred.

Ixor

Why are the Arabs so hell-bent on Jerusalem?

It's for political reasons, there is also a widespread belief, based on a faulty premise that Muhammad made The Night Journey to there and Ascended to Heaven from the temple mound, please note the Quran doesn't say he went to Jerusalem at all. Many of them believe the Al-Aqsa mosque was built deep in antiquity, just after the Kaabah but it wasn't, the work began after Muhammad's death and completed around AD705. Unfortunately blind acceptance of religious teachings, which have been pushed for political reasons negates their ability to think rationally about it, it is so because they have been told it is so.

Build a new capital. to replace the one they (we) built in Rahmallah

It was never their capital to begin with, this city which they now claim is so important to them wasn't used even as a regional capital.

Israel wants to look like they offered peace. They know Arabs won't accept. Then the bank owned media will brain wash the American public that Arabs reject peace. They do it all the time. Why? Because banks create money out of nothing and they demand interest for it. And the American public sheepishly pays interest for money that is created out of nothing. Thus, Islam that prohibits interest is the bankers' enemy and the media must keep telling Arabs are the bad guys so that we don't get ideas from them. This is why Iran cannot have nukes but Israel can. This is why Iran's central bank is a threat.

really,. mikes-503!?!? seriously?

like when araflop walked away from clinton's deal at the last minute? he could have received 97% of what the fakistinians demanded, but NO, araflop walked away from the deal. the self-serving governance of the palis IS the reason there is no peace. arabs don't want peace because the fakistinian struggle against israel is the ONLY thing they have to rally around. those are arapunk's words, by the way, not mine (out of quote, of course).

Well, these Arabs lived there for 3000 years too, their religion could have been different, but they did live there as Jews, as Christians, as Idolators. They did not fall from the sky in the last century.

mike dude you are the only wise guy here on this post and still i,m wondering how those bonehead's comments raised up?? they all act like palestinians fell from sky. the idea of creating isreal itself was absurd and keep this region always in fire.

Here is the problem: If peace is not achieved, Israel may not win the next war and they don't have much room as it is.

Arafat was asked: Do you really believe you can win against Israel?

He said: In what time frame? 1 century? 2 centuries?

Remember the Christian crusaders who had a Christian kingdom in Jerusalem for a 100 years around 1100 AD. They came to pass long ago.

Your analogy is flawed because none of the countries that occupy treat the people as non-citizens. If Israel makes every Palestinians full Israeli citizen, then there is no issue. The issue is Israel wants the land where the Palestinians live, but not the Palenstinians.

It is like US saying we want Texas but not the Texans.

As for Israel leaving Gaza - Israel only vacated Gaza, it never left. No human being can either enter or leave Gaza without Israel's permission. They cannot even fish in their own water. Is this your definition of "free Gaza".

The rules changed after WW2. We now have international laws, which say that land cannot be taken by conquest. The Zionists refuse to recognize laws which apply to the entire world, because they are greedy, thieving murderers.

It's in Israel's long term best interests to make this deal, not because it will give them peace as it won't but as it stops cold the drive to delegitimise Israel's existence. A Palestinian homeland will not stop the violence as a homeland isn't the end goal for many of those involved but it will help solve many of Israel's political problems with non-Islamic countries and help guarantee it's long term survival.

Your analogy is flawed because none of the countries that occupy treat the people as non-citizens. If Israel makes every Palestinians full Israeli citizen, then there is no issue. The issue is Israel wants the land where the Palestinians live, but not the Palenstinians. China does not treat Tibeaten any differently than its mainland citizens. Tibeatens are free to move around in China. Palestinians are not free to move around their own territory.

It is like US saying we want Texas but not the Texans.

As for Israel leaving Gaza - Israel only vacated Gaza, it never left. No human being can either enter or leave Gaza without Israel's permission. They cannot even fish in their own water. Is this your definition of "free Gaza".

I think you need to look a tad more carefully at the situation in Tibet. Things are "a little" less rosey than you seem to think.

It's tough to make a group full citizens who would then promptly vote to end Israel as a country and deport all of the Jews.

They killed JFK who questioned Israel's nuclear program. He pressed for inspections in demona nuclear facility and got killed. Johnston never questioned the nuclear program again.

They killed JFK

Your evidence for this is?

moe and mike-

you, and those like you, are amazing. jews make up less than 2% of the U.S. population, and less than 0.19% of the world's population, yet jews somehow control everything, are responsible for everthing etc. etc. etc.

if your bent bananna logic were true, i would think you and your ilk would be bowing down to the greatest superheros the world, nay, the universe, has ever known!

you guys are two-bit jackenapes...

why don't you listen to this Brit and wake up.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGYAfh9A1k

razuhmuhtazz

you, and those like you, are amazing. jews make up less than 2% of the U.S. population, and less than 0.19% of the world's population, yet jews somehow control everything, are responsible for everthing etc. etc. etc.

This is the modern equivalent of the blood libel and it's spread for much the same reasons.

Knowing how Jews are, if they did want to conquer and control everything as you claim (Elders of Zion and crap) in the world , you would be wearing a yarmulke and dancing to Hava Nagila now as would your ancestors have done, because they would have wrapped that up centuries ago. The fact that you aren't doing these things says how full of it you are. Get an education and at least try and vomit logic, not this drivel.

bizzybee

what are you talking about and what am i full of? was my sarcasm lost on you? my point was/ is that these people who claim that jews own and manipulate everything are paranoid conspiracy theorists.

Sorry razuhmuhtazz, not you, Moe. My bad for not specifying. I agree with you totally.

Israel absolutely killed JFK. The Israeli, Vanunu said Israel was behind the assasination. Israel had the motive and the means. Israel hated JFK because he was trying to stop Israel's nuclear weapons program. By killing him, Lyndon Johnson, a Zionist Jew would become president and aid Israel. Jack Ruby, a Jew, killed Oswald , before he could implicate who was behind the assasination. Read all about it here--

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/mossadandtheassassination.htm

http://lennybendavid.com/2008/05/lyndon-johnsons-historical-connection.html

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/36262/friend-ally-savior-revealing-lbj-s-jewish-ties/

Research into Johnson's personal history indicates that he inherited his concern for the Jewish people from his family. His aunt Jessie Johnson Hatcher, a major influence on LBJ, was a member of the Zionist Organization of America. As a young boy, Lyndon watched his politically active grandfather "Big Sam" and father "Little Sam" seek clemency for Leo Frank, the Jewish victim of a blood libel in Atlanta. Frank was lynched by a mob in 1915, and the Ku Klux Klan in Texas threatened to kill the Johnsons. Johnson's speechwriter later stated, "Johnson often cited Leo Frank's lynching as the source of his opposition to both anti-Semitism and isolationism."

Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffmans, apparently migrated to Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.¹⁰

According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish. These were the grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines.¹¹ Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin.¹² John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a common Jewish name.

Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman,¹³ who married Joseph Baines¹⁴ and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines,¹⁵ Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was Jewish.

LMAO @ Ralph and Moe! You guys kill me! (This next line must be read in the voice of Plankton from Spongebob for full efect) The Zionists rule the world!!!! Except that, you know, Hebrew is not the universal language, there's not even one synagogue in the town I live in but there are about 50 churches, etc... Pure comedy, keep it coming!!!

What is yours? Shalom?

They're negotiating. There is little reason to criticize or defend the initial starting position of the parties. Starting positions are based upon strategy, and often have little or nothing to do with what the parties ultimately agree upon. At least parties have moved to where they recognize the other's right to exist. Except of course for Hamas, which continues to demand the end of Israel, a condition to which they would never agree, thus ending any meaningful negotiations.

I think that we are hearing from Moe Hammed, Larry Hammed, and Curly Hammed.

Israel has never offered acceptible terms. They use this as a seed to feed news to make it appear as if Israel proposes peace and Arabs reject it. America's bank owned media does a good job of misleading the public to create positive public opinion about Israel. Israel does not want peace. They want to annex the occupied territories and then go for more wars.

Mike

They want to annex the occupied territories and then go for more wars.

If this was so they could have annexed it years ago and if Israel wants war why did it make peace with both Egypt and Jordan?

Israel has never offered acceptible terms

like rolling over and die.

Israel is not allowed to offer any "terms" The Arab has always demanded "all or nothing". 97% yours now and 3% negotiated later was not good enough. It was good enough for a 2nd and more violent infatada.

Egypt and Jordan official treaties, Israel gave up the Sinai in return for peace and have a peace with Jordan so you see it and now believe it

Israel never gave up Sinai on its own. Immidiately after the 1967 war Egypt offered Israel a peace treaty if it will move just 2 miles away from Suez canal. It refused, but 3 years later the Yom Kipur war happened and Egypt kicked Israel out of Sinai and with US intervention a peace agreement was signed.

As for Jordan, well US had to dole a lot of $$$$ to both Israel and Jordan for them to sign on that paper. Again there was nothing exchanged between Israel and Jordan. It was nothing but a signature for billions of American tax payer $$$$.

Josh

but 3 years later the Yom Kipur war happened and Egypt kicked Israel out of Sinai and with US intervention a peace agreement was signed.

Egypt didn't kick Israel out of the Sinai, it's forces didn't tend advance beyond the range of it's surface to air screen, at the end of the war Egypt held a slim section on the northern east bank of the canal. Israel forces were just over 100 kilometers from Cairo and they had cut off the Egyptian 3rd army.

Egypt regained the Sinai as part of the Israeli, Egyptian peace deal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/26/newsid_2806000/2806245.stm

kevin, what happened when israel relinquished control of gaza to the fakistinians? hmmm?

and kevin, oh, yeah, and what happened when arafat and israel agreed to clinton's terms, whereby araflop was getting 97% of their demands, only for araphuk to walk away from the deal in the 11th hour?

before you post, do yourself a favor and review FACTS.

@ steve N-476

a lot of liberal, jew-hating nutjobs hate this 6 min of video (from a former pali supporter and israeli harsh critic). i wonder why...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGYAfh9A1k

Pat Condell

http://youtu.be/LeGYAfh9A1k

Josh

Much like how the Jews hold Israel dear to their heart, Muslims

Their faith was born in Mecca and Medina, not Jerusalem.

There are no historical links with Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad.

you are disgusting low life. dont open your broken jaw if you dunno anything. what a pathetic loser!!!

Josh

You don't believe me, just open a Qur'an and see how many times the word Israel is mentioned. You will be amazed.

How many times is Jerusalem mentioned?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGYAfh9A1k