Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.com'Occupy Wall Street continues Martin Luther King's quest for economic justice through nonviolent action,' movement declares in a statement
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I posted this on another vine, but if you're having trouble understanding OWS, before you start calling them names, read this...
Anyone who's calling these people losers has a fundemental misunderstanding of what Capitalism is and how our financial system actually operates. We haven't had a Capitalist system in this country for about 30 years. Our current market isn't free. This isn't class warfare, it's an attempt at class cooperation, to get both those both politicians and Wall St. bankers who've profitted from this rigged system, not to give away their money, but to free up the opportunities we've lost, and to reform the system so that our needs align.
Let's break our system down first...
Than, we mix into this the political/legal side of things...
All of this added together means, no capital requirements, no transparency, no stoppage of manipulation/fraud. Our market has now gone from having aligned interests with the public, where banks invest in the most innovative and productive manufacturers, who are forced by the free market to higher standards, to the banks having their interests lay in dolling out as much debt to citizens as possible, regardless of the liklihood of that debt being paid back. Afterall, they're protected with tax payer money, and the Fed can always print more to cover up what's actually taking place.
These are complicated concepts that individually, without an advanced degree in economics, we might not all get, but what OWS does understand, what everyone can grasp, is that something is inherently WRONG. We have a whole class of political and intellectual elite in this country, pundits, think tanks, universities, politicians, who's job it is to figure this crap out for the people. It is part of the people's job to inform them that something is wrong. They have breached this contract and killed our opportunity, now OWS is excused from the contract, ergo a movement based in civil disobedience. That's the social contract called government. Our consideration is that we work hard and obey the law, which is what the majority of citizens, including those at OWS, do. Their half of the consideration is to ensure freedom and opportunity. That is class cooperation, not class warfare.
At the time of his assasination, MLK was focused on poverty, ending war and social equality. Just like Gandi. Just like Jesus. I guarentee you, none of them would be calling for fences on our borders, bombing Iran, a ban on gay marriage, an end to our social safety net... It's so funny that the political end of the spectrum that cries out for more "Jesus" in our laws and lives, is also the end of the spectrum that has nothing to do with what Jesus wanted.
OWS is just a FAKE political organization that was stolen by Moveon.org and other Soros organizations from a small group of people in NYC. It is now what Code Pink was in 2008 and is being used to cover the Left-wing DNC organizations that now interrupt GOP events. There is no REAL OWS anymore.
If by interrupt, you mean protest candidates/politicians that they feel aren't doing what's best for our country. Isn't that American???
And if they're so political, which candidate are they backing? How do you know this? Do you have any credible sources, or just Glen Beck?
Dr. King family’s civil trial verdict: US government assassinated Martin
Posted on January 16, 2012 by Carl Herman
“What then is, generally speaking, the truth of history? A fable agreed upon.” - Napoleon Bonaparte [69]
The following is from : Occupy This: US History exposes the 1%’s crimes then and now (6-part series)
Dr. Martin Luther King’s family and his personal friend and attorney, William F. Pepper, won a civil trial that found US government agencies guilty in the wrongful death of Martin Luther King. The 1999 trial, King Family versus Jowers and Other Unknown Co-Conspirators, [70] is the only trial ever conducted on the assassination of Dr. King.
The King family’s attempts for a criminal trial were denied, as suspect James Ray’s recant of what he claimed was a false confession was denied. Mr. Ray said that his government-appointed attorney told him to sign a confession in order to receive a trial. When Mr. Ray discovered that his signature meant no trial, his and the King family’s subsequent requests were denied.
The US government also denied the King family’s requests for independent investigation of the assassination.
Therefore, and importantly, the US government has never presented any evidence subject to challenge that substantiates their claim that Mr. Ray assassinated Dr. King.
US corporate media did not cover the trial, interview the King family, and textbooks omit this information. Journalist and author, James Douglass: [71]
“I can hardly believe the fact that, apart from the courtroom participants, only Memphis TV reporter Wendell Stacy and I attended from beginning to end this historic three-and-one-half week trial. Because of journalistic neglect scarcely anyone else in this land of ours even knows what went on in it. After critical testimony was given in the trial’s second week before an almost empty gallery, Barbara Reis, U.S. correspondent for the Lisbon daily Publico who was there several days, turned to me and said, “Everything in the U.S. is the trial of the century. O.J. Simpson’s trial was the trial of the century. Clinton’s trial was the trial of the century. But this is the trial of the century, and who’s here?” ”
For comparison, please consider the media coverage of O.J. Simpson’s trials: [72]
“Media coverage of the Simpson trial, which began in January 1995, was unlike any other. Over two thousand reporters covered the trial, and 80 miles of cable was required to allow nineteen television stations to cover the trial live to 91 percent of the American viewing audience. When the verdict was finally read on October 3, 1995, some 142 million people listened or watched. It seemed the nation stood still, divided along racial lines as to the defendant’s guilt or innocence. During and after the trial, over eighty books were published about the event by most everyone involved in the Simpson case.”
The overwhelming evidence of government complicity introduced and agreed as comprehensively valid by the jury includes the 111th Military Intelligence Group were sent to Dr. King’s location, and that the usual police protection was pulled away just before the assassination. Military Intelligence set-up photographers on a roof of a fire station with a clear view to Dr. King’s balcony. 20th Special Forces Group had an 8-man sniper team at the assassination location on that day. Memphis police ordered the scene where multiple witnesses reported as the source of shooting cut down of their bushes that would have hid a sniper team. Along with sanitizing a crime scene, police abandoned investigative procedure to interview witnesses who lived by the scene of the shooting.
The King family believes the government’s motivation to murder Dr. King was to prevent his imminent camp-in at Washington, D.C. until the Vietnam War was ended and those resources directed to end poverty and invest in US hard and soft infrastructure.
Please watch this six-minute video of the evidence from the trial, [73] and this eight-minute video [74] on the FBI’s disclosures of covert operations against Dr. King, including confirmation from his closest friends and advisors.
Coretta Scott King, Dr. King’s wife, is certain of the evidence after 30 years of consideration from the 1968 assassination to the 1999 trial:
“For a quarter of a century, Bill Pepper conducted an independent investigation of the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. He opened his files to our family, encouraged us to speak with the witnesses, and represented our family in the civil trial against the conspirators. The jury affirmed his findings, providing our family with a long-sought sense of closure and peace, which had been denied by official disinformation and cover- ups. Now the findings of his exhaustive investigation and additional revelations from the trial are presented in the pages of this important book. We recommend it highly to everyone who seeks the truth about Dr. King’s assassination.” — Coretta Scott King, Dr. King’s wife.
The US Department of Justice issued a report in 2000 that explains their investigation into their own possible guilt in the assassination found no evidence to warrant further investigation. Dr. King’s son issued the following statement [75] rebuking a “self-study” rather than the independent investigation the King family assert the evidence demands:
“We learned only hours before the Justice Department press conference that they were releasing the report of their results of their “limited investigation,” which covered only two areas of new evidence concerning the assassination of Dr. King. We had requested that we be given a copy of the report a few days in advance so that we might have had the opportunity to review it in detail. Since that courtesy was not extended to us, we are only able at this time to state the following:
1. We initially requested that a comprehensive investigation be conducted by a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, independent of the government, because we do not believe that, in such a politically-sensitive matter, the government is capable of investigating itself.
2. The type of independent investigation we sought was denied by the federal government. But in our view, it was carried out, in a Memphis courtroom, during a month-long trial by a jury of 12 American citizens who had no interest other than ascertaining the truth. (Kings v. Jowers)
3. After hearing and reviewing the extensive testimony and evidence, which had never before been tested under oath in a court of law, it took the Memphis jury only one (1) hour to find that a conspiracy to kill Dr. King did exist. Most significantly, this conspiracy involved agents of the governments of the City of Memphis, the state of Tennessee and the United States of America. The overwhelming weight of the evidence also indicated that James Earl Ray was not the triggerman and, in fact, was an unknowing patsy.
4. We stand by that verdict and have no doubt that the truth about this terrible event has finally been revealed.
5. We urge all interested Americans to read the transcript of the trial on the King Center website and consider the evidence, so they can form their own unbiased conclusions.
Although we cooperated fully with this limited investigation, we never really expected that the government report would be any more objective than that which has resulted from any previous official investigation.”
Let’s summarize: Under US Civil Law, covert US government agencies were found guilty of the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Dr. King was the leading figure of the Civil Rights Movement, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and widely recognized as one of the world’s greatest speakers for what it means to be human. The family’s conclusion as to motive was to prevent Dr. King from ending the Vietnam War because the government wanted to continue its ongoing covert and overt military operations to control foreign governments and their resources.
It is therefore a factual statement that under US Civil Law, the US government assassinated Dr. King.
This is similar that under Criminal Law, both O.J. Simpson and the US government are not legally guilty for murder, but both parties are guilty for killing innocent victims under Civil Law.
People of sufficient intellectual integrity and moral courage will embrace the trial evidence and testimony, jury conclusion, and King family analysis as appropriate and helpful information in seeking the facts.
People who at least temporarily reject challenging information out of fear might say something like, “The government killed Dr. King? That’s a crazy conspiracy theory!”
Let’s consider that statement.
When someone says that a body of evidence is “crazy,” or a “conspiracy theory” (meaning an irrational claim easily refuted by the evidence) that’s a claim. With a claim comes a burden of proof. In this case, the person would have to demonstrate command of the facts to explain and prove why the evidence from the civil trial is somehow “crazy” and easily refuted.
If the person can do this, it would be tremendously helpful in understanding the facts. However, we know from our experience that such statements almost always have zero factual support, and that the person making such a claim literally doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
We also know from our experience, a person making such a statement is really voicing an emotional reaction something closer to the spirit of, “The government killed Dr. King? Ok, I read and understood the paragraphs about the trial and evidence. I read Mrs. King’s and her son’s statement. I haven’t invested the time to verify how valid that information is. I’m not stupid, but because the implications of what that means is so disturbing, I’m going to deny anything about it could possibly be true as my first response. If I’m going to continue being in denial and refuse to discuss the evidence, I’ll attack the messenger.”
We also need to consider the lack of coverage by US corporate media of this compelling evidence, trial verdict, and King family testimony from over 30 years’ analysis of the facts. Recall the evidence of US corporate media reporting being infiltrated by CIA agents to propagandize Americans’ access to information. This included the Director of the CIA’s admission to Congress that they have over 400 agents working in corporate media to make the US public believe what the CIA wants them to believe.
In 2006, George Washington University used a Freedom of Information Act request to obtain the US military’s “Information Operations Roadmap.” This formerly secret and approved document details present US government strategies to generate propaganda, and then attack Internet alternative media that provides dangerous facts and discussion. The military promoted the term, “Fight the net.” [76]
Although I won’t enter the burden of proof here, you may know that there are similar and related bodies of evidence that the US government assassinated other American leaders who opposed key policies of an apparent violent faction within US government. The 1975 Senate Church Committee disclosed that the US government initiated and helped assassination attempts on multiple foreign heads of state. [77]
If we were discussing how the population of some other nation could employ critical thinking skills to understand current events from anytime in history, we would certainly understand the importance to anticipate disinformation from government, danger of controlled media, and assassination as a political weapon.
Failure to do so would appropriately elicit the label attributed to the first dictator of the Soviet Union, Vladimir Lenin. Such people who believe what their government tells them when the history and present have overwhelming objective evidence to explain, document, and prove that the government is typical of so many other historical self-serving oligarchies are:
“Useful idiots.”
To the extent the United States today is any different from all other nations and all other times is up to your exercise of critical thinking skills.
If we study Dr. King in his last days, it becomes evident he learned what evil that the federal reserve bank was doing and his newly found ENERGY was all about. If he could be here today, he would have wanted Obama out and a President who understands Liberty to be elected. DR. RON PAUL 2012
Sarah: Thank you for educational, rational & educational msg. I love having rational discourse rather than some of the other comments which sink into personal abuse. Brilliant post!
OWS march started at an ancient slave burial ground and ended at the modern slave master headquarters... the Federal Reserve Bank. Very appropriate and classy!
Care,
This might help you with your paranoia...
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm
I'm not naive, and I'm sure our government does some seriously shady things, but seriously, these full bore conspiracies drive me nuts.
Hey Sarah, your gratuitous articles and comments are as biased as anyone elses's here.
Tom,
Some questions...
How so? Where's the bias? What's gratuitious about them?
OWS is happening because the current system is screwing over the overage person royally! Congress, the Supreme Court, the whole system, is controlled by the very wealthy. These people are not content to have billions, they want your last cent. If we the people continue to lose laws that were designed to protect us, we won't have much of a country left. That's why an organized protest is necessary.
I have no time for OWS, a useless do-nothing organization (and I use the term "organization" lightly). If they had a plan and leaders to implement it, then they might get a little respect. Right now, they just look like bums who don't like the world but have no idea how to fix it.
only lazy or those who feel entitled to others money are screwing over the average person - YOU DONT REPRESENT US!!!
Irony- A major piece of Dr. King's movement was economic and social equality among all people of all races and creeds, yet we are experiencing the most unequal disparity between rich and poor since the 1920"s!!! What has changed since 1968? What has fed this gap of inequality? What I observe is a climate of intolerance and hate not unlike the days of Jim Crow in the south. Except the hate has shifted from color of skin to those unemployed or underemployed. There is a class warfare going on that Dr. King predicted. That is why he was supporting the garbage collector's union in Memphis the day he was killed. He saw the next battle lines being between the rich few the the working poor majority. His prediction is now our reality. The rich and well off accuse the poor and working poor of being lazy, dependent on "handouts" (government or otherwise), etc. Yet no one seems to have an answer as to why the rich and well off (who are richer and more well off even AFTER the 2008 crash) have not "created" descent jobs so that those who are underemployed can better themselves? They are sitting on close to 3 trillion dollars of cash (as a result of THEIR bailout!!!) and are NOT re-investing those tax dollars into the economy. I find that CRIMINAL as millions are hanging on by a thread!!!! The old saying is, "teach a man to fish, and he can make a life for himself." I say, "a lake has to be available before a man can even begin to think about fishing!" The rich and well off control most of the economy. They are this century's equivalent of the Robber Barons of the 1890's!!! We need a Teddy Roosevelt (A Republican btw) who will go to the millions of people hurting and FORCE these 1% folk to stop the greed and start the sharing for the benefit of We The People of these UNITED States of America. But I'm not holding my breath. Rocky Anderson for President......
If you think OWS is anything at all like Jesus, you'd better go back to sunday school.
My goodness, so many long posts they can be separate articles. Bottom line: Occupy Wall Street is protesting inequality in this country, with a terrible econimc system, corrupt politicians & Wall Street CEO's, a tanked job market with all jobs going to India and China, and a housing crisis that has not gotten better. And they can't be mad about that? They can only sit back and hope that things get better, instead of challenging a deadlocked Congress? If the Repblicans economy plans worked (bailout of Wall Street, tax deductions for the rich) we'd be in a boom right now, not a recession.
Sarah,
You egotistical, academic, narcissist.
Sarah good to hear a comment that makes some sence but don't let all this drive you crazy. brush up on your MLK history hes not a Jesus type by any means
Mintaur,
I don't, but I do know what's written in that book that YOU all claim to be the absolute truth. That was my point. Not that Jesus would be at OWS, but that the side that makes a claim to be "Jesus-LIke" isn't very "Jesus-Like" compared to what the book they claim to be the "truth" says.
You've illustrated my point quite clearly, thank you.
Justice,
I didn't know academic was an insult. Perhaps you're intimidated. Is that why you went straight for insults instead of arguing points?
Jesus didn't come to me in my bedroom, mintaur. Just on a piece of toast.
Sarah 3043284.....I REALLY appreciate your lucid and excellent post....but I am afraid you are hitting a brick wall with the few who are being critical of your post WITHOUT giving you any rational non-vitriol answers. These vines are black holes for people who have no answers (kind of like our government) to an economic and political system that is, in effect, a Plutocracy. Money is what rules our government, hence the Plutocratic name. Democracy, rule of the People for and by People, has long died out. Again, thanks for your post, they are lost on the closed minded and ignorant....
@cotw
Democracy died i this country when Bush became president. Now it's a plutocracy. A government for the rich, by the rich, and no one else.
Just as it should be. Mediocrity needs to be oppressed. Deadbeats need to be sterilized.
@Sarah, Nothing personal, but please stop marketing here.
No, Nyan Cat, the democracy is just fine, thank you. It does, however, work very much better for those who attempt to make their own way through hard work and persisitence, than it does for whiners looking for a continuous handout from the government.
"democracy is just fine"
Deomcratic-plutocracy. How about that? And which would you feel more sorry for- the average Joe who just got his job outsourced to a call center in Mumbai, or the CEO who lost $5 of his $60 billion dollars?
Finally, an essence of truth!!
The OWS just wants a Socialist Socirty where they can live on entitlements given to them by a Big Government. This country was founded by Patriots who gave the Life and blood to get rid of People like you. Martin Luther King Jr is doing snap Rolls in his grave when you associate with his name.
I would not even wipe my feet on the OWS.
Who, me, Carl? I thought that the Patriots fought the British because they wanted to be free of a tyrannical government, to be free of taxation without representation. And I think MLK would be pleased with OWS. They are peaceful (with the execption of a small few), no? And they are accepting of all ethnic backgrounds (again, without a few individuals), no?
Keep up the good fight Occupy.
MLK was about social inequality and racial inequality, not about economic inequality. Mr. King never was nothing about socialism or redistribution of wealth, MLK was about blacks be treated equal regardless the color of the skin. OWS is a movement that divide the country base on income and says to represent 99% of the Americans when less than 30 % say they do represent them. For the OWS to say they continue the will of MLK taking over streets and turning in dumping trash surrounding for rats to the point that are a danger to the public sanity and their own health is insulting to his memory . I admire MLK and I wish we can see color blind, but OWS is something else.
In Hartford, Connecticut it was reported that the city spent $45,000 on police overtime and $1900 per month for the rental of 'Porta-Potties' at the 'Occupy Hartford' site, which was mainly made up of government union employees.
When a person enters a 'Porta-Potty' and slides the lock into place, the little sign outside the door reads "OCCUPIED".
OK. Will someone PLEASE explain to me what economic justice is?
Now, please don’t give me the convoluted definition of, "giving to each what he or she is due." The problem is knowing what is "due". While we’re at it define a “fair share”, “fairness” and a “level playing field”. These are the slogans or tag-lines
While you’re at it explain to me who will be the unbiased, omniscient, benevolent, arbiter of deciding what is due, fair and a level playing field?
Who will it be? You? Me? Obama? The Federal government? The Pope? Oprah?
Now, assuming there will be definitions, how will this be quantified? How will it be enforced? How will it be rewarded or punished?
Don’t waste your time. There is no answer to any of these questions. This is just as impossible to define as “equality”.
The OWS is just a confused, irrational gathering of people whose ambition has been clouded by Progressivism. For nearly 100 years it has obtunded the true character of our nation by promoting the irrational concept of social and economic justice for the collective. It does not celebrate the ethics of self-reliance or self-determination. They bear no responsibility for their problems, poor choices, bad habits, faulty judgment, lack of ambition or defects in character. They blame all the typical bogeymen, the rich, corporations, capitalism, the wealthy and the powerful.
Of course these are the same people they demonize and then expect them to provide them with everything they want.
Hypocrisy or ignorance?
@Sarah-3043284
Very, very true but I don't see how this relates to the OWS movement. I keep hearing people tell me what the movement wants and what they stand for but from what I've seen, you, like all of the rest, have failed to explain this to the actual protesters. You are without doubt the first person I've heard suggesting that unbridled capitalism and the free market are goals of the OWS movement. In fact many of those protesting seem to want the exact opposite.
Sarah,
You may be right about what the goals of OWS are, but what OWS is doing is not addressing those goals.
Also as Backcountry pointed out above, many in OWS seem to have their own ideas about what OWS is about. It's very disjointed and to be honest, the longer it goes on like this the less and less anyone is going to take OWS seriously.
What a LONG and useless rant. I'll make it very easy for you and is quite simple: If a person brings a value to the company for MORE than it cost to hire that person then the person will be hired. If a person does NOT bring a value to the company for MORE than it cost to hire that person then the person will NOT be hired.
I don't know why so many don't understand how business works. I will not pay someone $20/hour if they only bring additional revenue into my company of $15/hour. Period. You want to make more than you do? Then increase your value. Want to get out of poverty? Increase your value. Learn a trade. Go to school. Start your own side business. Do you know how to fix sprinklers? Spend $30 on 250 business cards and walk down your street knocking on a few doors. Or offer to rake leaves. Have a hobby? Make a few items and sell on eBay or go to the Flea Market.
What is so frustrating to me is how so many think they are "entitled" to the money other people have earned. Our great grandparents came to this country with nothing more than a small suitcase with some clothes with the belief with hard work they can succeed in the "Land of Opportunity". They would work 16 hour days and sometimes two and three jobs. They lived modestly and when they saw a wealthy person did NOT look at them with disdain but rather looked up to them saying "with hared work one of these days I can be as successful as they are". Not anymore. Lazy people don't want to work anymore. More than 8 hours? Forget it. Work weekends? No way - they say "that is my relaxation time". Sorry, you don't have TIME to relax. Time to work!! Stop blaming others for your current financial situation!! ANYBODY can succeed if you are willing to WORK!!
You get a trophy for the longevity of the post. No go away and get a job. OWS is nothing more than a bunch of people who are sour over the not getting a job or a good job review. The truth is that not everyone gets a trophy! you have to show up at work ON TIME and work. And mom can't come in and argue with the boss about your poor job review.
And then to bring in your religious fairy tale nonsense is the Coup de grâce. Just beautiful!
Sarah, you sound like an educated person from your posts but you need to learn the difference between then and than.
Sarah, As long as you grasp that women are chattel property and may serve as collateral we are good.
Good post Sarah. Dont listen to the shills here, they plague the place. They are not representitive of the whole of society, not even close.
OWS's causes have all kinds of support, even if people dont realize it. Corporate regulation, no more too big to fails. Campaign reform, no more buying politicians. Holding politicians accountable. Tax reform. Term limits. All of these have huge support across all parties.
Problem with too many Americans, they are narrow minded and closed minded. They get it in their head that someone is the enemy, they are lying and its a big consiracy, etc... And wont even hear what you are saying. Or believe it.
Especially on the right. They are convinced the world wants to take their religion and their guns from them... lol.. But its really not their fault, its their zealot leaders telling them that. Its scare tactics, for power, so they can push a religious agenda. So they will say anything to turn people away from the other party, including telling outright lies. Some religion...
Hey mods, get rid of the collapse feature. Too many use it to quiet opinion, and not for the reason it was intended. Collapsing posts and dealing with offensive posts, should be your job.
No go away and get a job.
If you kept up on current events you would realize that there are more than 4 job seekers for every job opening in the country right now. Your statement is like telling starving people in Africa to shut up and find some food. Totally ignorant.
Sarah, very well written post! Most of the "people" who come on here and spew hate are actually paid to do so. There are a few neanderthals who just post hate for fun, mainly because they have no life or friends to speak of, but for the most part the hate spewers are paid RNC scum or CR's (College Republicans) who are recruited to spread hate and discontent. I have been fighting the conservative menace for over 30 years. During the Reagan Administration the CR's would show up to our rallies and pass out rascist fliers or break windows and dump garbage everywhere, the next day the newpapers would read "Peace rally turns violent" making it appear as though we were the ones causing the problem. I video taped them doing it one time and got nearly 3/4 of a farternity thrown off campus. You gotta love those fraternities, they are breeding grounds for young wingnuts.
These people are the lowest form of humans, they know they cant win without cheating, their agenda is repulsive to most people, so they tie some sagebrush behind a few horses to make it look like the entire Souix Nation is attacking. The Moral Majority was neither moral nor were they EVER a majority, they just scream louder and have no concept of what is right and wrong. So why were here trying to follow the rules, they claim that we are demons so rules dont apply. You know it's funny, I have read the bible numerous times and yet I still cant find that passage that says "it's okay to lie if you are doing it for the lord", so either all these self proclaimed "men of god" are going to hell or they actually dont believe in god and just use the bible as a tool to control the feeble minded souls who follow them.
Please do share your source for this info or are you just spewing the same sort of BS drivel that you accuse others of? When you're the pot, you probably shouldn't speak ill of the kettle, kind of makes you sound like a hypocritical parrot.
Hi
It is funny how some people think that all those unemployed people just looking for hand outs and not willing to work. Of coarse there are bad apples in every place, but common really. If it was just problem of somebody wanted to work or not, solution would have been that easy, cut the welfare or have some kind of tiered system of it, which what I prefer. But it not possible because there very few jobs out there. It is not just go and get job problem, it no jobs when they do look for one. when you have so many people applying for one position and you have people with degrees can't even find a job. The other problem is LIVING WAGE IS going away. How many of you think working for $8 or even $10 per hour can get you anywhere? if you work 90hours per week and can't make ends meet? what kind of job is that? some people will quit and get on welfare. yes the system is screwed, you have to be bloody poor and stay poor to get help and middle class don't get any assistance and eventually drops there. Do i agree with Occupy? yes and no. I support their cause, but I do believe they need to become more organized like Tea Party( not in radical way their are). then they will be the force to reckon with. The way they trying to push their agenda I don't agree, yes we need those protests, but we need political push of those issues, when those issues translates votes, and occupy leaning politicians then it will equate policies and other stuff.
He called for a guaranteed minimum income, and I don't think he called for it just for black people.
Seriously, what do you think the Poor People's March was about?
I read your incredibly long post so I will now call OWS losers. And I fully understand Capitalism.
Really, you understand Capitalism???
Than please explain for me, how we have capitalism without capital requirements? How borrowers have detrimental reliance on lendors, but lendors have no fiduciary duty to borrowers? How competition and free market values like the best product gets bought the most, can thrive if we have no transparency to even know what all the options are? How letting banks get so big that they can't fail fits into a free market? Why is leveraging a bank at the rate of 40:1, okay?
Should I keep going???
Spare us your cut-n-paste BS.
Equals... I can't answer your questions, or present a substantive argument in return, ergo I will post hateful, nasty insults.
Yeah! If we want to get owned by the Federal Reserve, Fractional Reserve Banking, Manipulation of Markets, non-enforcement of anti-trust legislation, etc. that's our choice. It's the American way!
Capitalism = Rule of those who have a lot of capital
US is fully controlled by international capital holders
Iits going to take most people a long time to understand what fiat money is and the crony capitolism it created.
Capitalism = the use of private money to finance economic activity. It's really not more complicated than that. All those other issues are about implementation, not concept.
So please than, explain how we can have Capitalism in a financial market such as ours? Answer those questions...
Than please explain for me, how we have capitalism without capital requirements? How borrowers have detrimental reliance on lendors, but lendors have no fiduciary duty to borrowers? How competition and free market values like the best product gets bought the most, can thrive if we have no transparency to even know what all the options are? How letting banks get so big that they can't fail fits into a free market? Why is leveraging a bank at the rate of 40:1, okay?
Sarah 3043284.....I REALLY appreciate your lucid and excellent post....but I am afraid you are hitting a brick wall with the few who are being critical of your post WITHOUT giving you any rational non-vitriol answers. These vines are black holes for people who have no answers (kind of like our government) to an economic and political system that is, in effect, a Plutocracy. Money is what rules our government, hence the Plutocratic name. Democracy, rule of the People for and by People, has long died out. Again, thanks for your post, they are lost on the closed minded and ignorant....
Sarah, despite the annoyingness of posting your questions repeatedly (like we can't read the first time), I'll attempt to address them:
We can't. We've socialized our banking system to a large extent. Whether this is a good thing or not, I couldn't say.
Again, you can't. Without the use of private money, it's not capitalism.
Why should lenders have a duty to borrowers? They lent the money; they expect to be repaid. That's how it works.
That doesn't even make sense. What options? What products are you talking about? You need to be specific.
It doesn't. That would be the very opposite of a free market.
Who said it was? Clearly such behavior helps no one except the very short-sighted.
Sarah, you're waffling on about abuses in the system while trying to cloak it in an attack on capitalism. Or perhaps you're saying what we have isn't capitalism. Or perhaps you're suggesting capitalism would solve these problems. I can't tell. Your prose is too vague to draw conclusions on your point.
My own opinion is that captialism needs to be tempered with social responsibility to be humane. Captialism is the engine; Socialism is the controls. Both are important.
Lol, but AG, we do all those things. That's how our market works, no capital, no transparency, no duties...That's what deregulation has given us. Options like, what securities and bonds have the best returns or greatest risks, see you don't know, because there's no transparency. So, if you agree too big to fail is too big to exist, and we shouldn't be leveraged at 40:1 and we can't have capitalism without capital, than you agree with OWS.
Do I? I'd be hard-pressed to agree. I look at OWS and see a bunch of loafers asking for someone else to make it all better. They need a plan. They need specifics that I can either agree or disagree with. The movement as it stands now is nothing.
It's impossible to be rational without a rationale!
When people are led to believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that then becomes synonymous with fact, the end result is chaos.
Surprisingly when educated people cannot achieve agreement among their scholarly elite, the problems then become insurmountable.
When people are fed a constant diet of unimaginable ideas which are based on unsubstantiated theory, then factual information often plays second fiddle.
People are no longer content accepting the facts of history, but seek conclusions based on their opinions.
"If we do not agree with the facts, then we will change the facts."
We are our own worst enemies.
AG
OWS doesn't need people to know what they want, they need them to know what they don't want. And that's the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Republicans wanted to get rid of the payroll tax, which increases taxes for the middle class, and yet they won't allow the rich to pay another penny. The "Job Creators" do create jobs - except they're overseas within 6 months. Republicans in the legislature don't know how to do math, or are too ignorant or accepting to Grover Norquist that they don't care about the middle class. So don't go accusing OWS for being lazy when our own politicians are as well.
The 'payroll tax' is the deduction for Social Security that every worker pays...neither the Republicans or anyone else wanted to "get rid of it". The debate was for a one-year 'holiday' for everyone paying it...instead we got a two-month holiday and the debate will begin again in a few weeks, over what to do next.
Last year, everyone paid the payroll tax up to $106,000 in gross income, where it is capped.
It was bad enough but when Obama said that he wants a public/private business partnership he is getting ready to completely wrap up his desire for change. We are already heavily intertwined with the International communities.
AG, do you understand where the payroll tax comes from? It is social security. I want to get rid of it, also. Why? First, about $40 per week for each employee will cause a business to hire anyone. SSI before this payroll tax cut was slated to become insolvent by 2036. Again, that was before 100's of billions in dollars were additionally taken away from it. In 2010, SSI was paying our more than it was taking in. What will the middle class do when SSI becomes insolvent. I would much rather see cuts in the federal income tax and cuts in spending. The problem with the democrats is that they want to scare everyone with granny over a cliff instead of letting the american people know the issue with SSI.
And why? Because the U.S. corporate tax rate is around or above 47-48%, the highest in the world! If I open a business, it is to make a profit, and when the government taxes me so high or regulates me so incessently, I'm moving to a business friendly country. That is plain old business sense. Want examples? Please Boeing, Move over seas and in the heart of most Americans , you would be justified because of the overstepping of the NLRB. A union schill!!! Want more, The EPA going after the Gibson Guitar Co. for it's use of indian rosewood in the manufacture of it's guitars. So do other guitar manufacturers, the difference being, they didn't contribute heavily to the G.O.P.!! And they were also told that if they wanted to stay in business, they better move off shore!!! Hmmm, oblowhole at it again. Solyandra, 500million to a company that was invested in by oblowholes advisors? He was told about the situation with them not being solvent, but to get a photo op, he gave 1/2 of a BILLION dollars to a company that went bankrupt 1 month later! Where'd that 500 million go, right back into oblowhole's war chest, political money laundering. 5 other solar companies with bailout money have filed for bankruptsy also, but the MSM won't report the obvious cronyism in this administration of crooks and beligerent racists!!!!
OWS needs to be OUST OBAMA and his cronyism and chicago politics if they want justice. It is he who is fueling the fires of resentment he has no plan, just organizing so he can declare martial law and hold onto power. Don't put that past this lying bas@#&d!!
"A Government Accountability Office study released in 2008 found that 55 percent of United States companies paid no federal income taxes during at least one year in a seven-year period it studied. The paradox of the United States tax code — high rates with a bounty of subsidies, shelters and special breaks — has made American multinationals “world leaders in tax avoidance,” according to Edward D. Kleinbard, a professor at the University of Southern California who was head of the Congressional joint committee on taxes."... (This has not been changed, yet.)
I'd take away all subsidies and loopholes from American corps who won't bring jobs back to the US.
Anyone who thinks that we live in a democracy is cracked. We live in a plutocracy, the people who have money decide everything.
Part of list of stats - with their origin....
1. The median gross, inflation-adjusted income of American males in 1968 was $32,137. In 2010? $32, 137 (U.S. Census, Sept. 2011 release)
2. From 1980 to 2005, more than 80% of the total increase in Americans' income went to the top 1% (Slate Sept. 2010).
3. In 2010, CEOs at the nation's 299 large companies earned an average of $11.4 million in total pay. 343 times more than a typical American workers. In 1980, CEOs of these companies received 42 times the pay of their average worker (CNN Money April 2011)
4. Change in median household wealth of white families since 2005? Minus 16%. Hispanics? minus 66% (Pew Research Center Social and Demographic Trends project.)
5. The upper 1% of Americans account for nearly a quarter of the nation's income and control 40% of all US wealth. 25 years ago, it was 12% and 33%. (Joseph E. Stiglitz, May 2011 Vanity Fair)
6. The top 1% have seen their incomes rise 18% over the past decade. Those in the Middle have seen incomes fall. (Joseph E. Stiglitz, May 2011 Vanity Fair)
7. In 2010, median CEO pay jumped 27% while workers in private industry saw theirs grow by 2.1% (USA TODAY analysis, April 2011.)
8. Income inequality is more severe in the US than it is in nearly all of West Africa, Europe, North Africa and Asia. (The Atlantic, Sept. 2011)
Lastly -
In 1961, the percentage of profits American corporations paid in taxes? 40.6% In 2011? 10.5% (Institute for Policy Studies). Hmmm.... poor corporations.
How about writing the percentage of total federal taxes paid in the US by the top 1% of earners...I believe it's somewhere around 36-37%.
"Statistics" can be used any particular way one wants to show one side of a debate.
I don't even know how to address such twaddle. How can I possibly evaluate a movement that won't even stand for anything? If they had a plan to stop the rich getting richer, etc., I'd listen, but they aren't saying anything useful.
Was I talking about the payroll tax? What's that got to do with OWS?
This Sarah person is rediculous. If you don't agree with her then you are a know nothing. She starts chucking out b/s questions about a subject matter that is researched like neuroscience. Sara, you want answers go google captialism on Google or WiKi (when they are up) and you will get all the captialism you want in no time. The system is not rigged for all. There are always exceptions but please don't take them as the rule. Get a life!
@Sarah
how come we had/have home mortgage loans given to people who had no way or inclination to pay them off?...that's right , liberal government interference...isn't it cool?
Cassandra, you do know that the majority of those companies were titled S-Corps which pay all gains through the payroll tax correct? This means they have no corporate income tax, 0, nada. It is paid through personal income tax.
how come we had/have home mortgage loans given to people who had no way or inclination to pay them off?...that's right , liberal government interference...isn't it cool?
Liberal government interference? I guess Bush was a liberal now. The governments programs to get low income people into homes were started under Clinton and expanded under Bush. See beyond the stupid party lines. Furthermore their is a revolving door in Washington with bankers becoming key figures. Even if the liberal governmet "forced" banks into making these loans it would be the banks fault! They lobbied from the inside and from the outside to deregulate the industry for the top few executives personal gain. And that is what happened. The con men behind our recession got away with hundreds of millions.
And why? Because the U.S. corporate tax rate is around or above 47-48%, the highest in the world!
No idea where you got 47-48% but it is actually 35%. And like it really matters to the @!$%#ing companies what the tax rates are. They just raise their prices to compensate. So the high tax rate is making businesses leave is bull. Consumers pay the taxes not the corporations.
The Sensible One: You should be a cartoon character. Did you really tell a person educated in economics to go to wikipedia to figure out how "capitalism is not rigged?" Oh my God. Can we get a writer to make a week sit-com called American Idiot and feature some of the commenters? It's "ridiculous", by the way.
Its aokay Sarah most people get it, even if AG99 doesnt. I suspect hes simply being Obtuse...
Freedom4Everyone: And what happened to your suggestion that we avoid each other? Took you a while, but you finally couldn't resist a personal attack, could you? (And btw, it's "she.")
Harry,
Actual Fannie/Freddie had little to do with the proliferation of high risk mortgages. They contributed to the subprime bubble, only about 16%, and were never told to lend money to people who couldn't pay it back. That they did on their own, because they too, made money off of it.
Oh, and AG, why should lendor's have a duty to borrowers??? Perhaps for the same reason doctors and lawyers have duties to their clients. The complexity of the financial system, coupled with the complete lack of transparency means that the borrower has a detrimental reliance of the lendor to treat the clients obligations and investments in a way that best suits the client. Not to mention that if the lendor screws up, it's the borrower's tax money that bails them out.
They're not just loaning out the money from the goodness in their heart you know? If they wanna make money off of my obligations, they owe me at least some transparency and honesty about what they're doing.
Sarah
you: "and were never told to lend money to people who couldn't pay it back. That they did on their own, because they too, made money off of it."
you have no clue what Fraudy Mae and Fraudy Mac were doing , from their own website:
"We are a national mortgage finance company, but we don’t offer home loans. We stand behind mortgage lenders – local and national banks, thrifts, credit unions, and other financial institutions in all 50 states – to securitize or buy the mortgage loans they originate, enabling them to replenish their funds so they can lend to other homeowners. Similarly, we work to keep funds flowing to support affordable rental housing."
the crust of the bisquit : "we don't make home loans" ...I thought elitists had it all figured out...interesting
Satanick
you don't know what you are talking about either , The Community Reinvestment Act was started under Peanut Head Carter...Clinton turned it into a giant turd , along with Janet "the murderess of Waco" Reno and Bush tried several times to get Congress to address the situation and was told several times by Barney Mushmouth Frank that everything was cool...liberal public school is so overated
Harry,
Yes, they work to make sure that mortgage money is made available to home buyers. They don't lend it to private citizens, they work with the lendors to make sure they can lend it to citizens. Which means, that subprime mortgage crisis, yeah, that was done by the mortgage lendors, the people getting the money from Fannie/Freddie.
Are they responsible for what happened after handing over these funds??? Yes, for about 16% of it.
And, by the way...
Fannie/Freddie are privately owned by shareholders/stockholders. They started out as public, but became private, and the rest of the banks have just as much dependancy on the government and tax payers as they do.
A racist is a person who has an inferiority complex. His/Her inferiority causes him or her to make a non-white feel like something is wrong with them to make up for the inferiority. Hence, the pathetic, ignorant nature of race based prejudice.
So all racists are white? Now that's racism.
All prejudice is rotten, race-based or not.
A perfect example of today's racism is the use of the words racist and bigot to falsely accuse those who don't agree with the Obama Administrations policies. You see it in play here all the time by some of the most racists and bigoted people I know - Progressives.
I have to agree with BMOC. The only requirements for being a racist are 1. being a human, and 2. believing an entire segment of the population is inferior merely because of the color of their skin.
If you are white and find yourself identifying racism against whites at every possible opportunity, then you are a racist. It's called projection. Racism against whites has no effect on us. If you are white like me, please stop talking about racism that is supposedly affecting whites. If you insist on driving that train, put on your white hood.
Any one can be a racist no matter their color. All you have to do is generalize and make assumptions on someone based on their race. To pretend otherwise is just an excuse to spread ignorance and sometimes hate. It is like a parent who does something wrong in front of their kids and says, don't do this it's wrong BUT it's ok if I do it, I am the parent after all. No wonder racism can not end.
1) Lift up boulder,
2) place head under boulder,
3) slam boulder on your own head
4) Result? No more stupid remarks from the likes of you!!
Seriously! Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
I don't care what color your skin is: white, black, brown, purple (now that I think about it, if you have purple skin, it probably means you are suffering from severe internal bleeding and require immediate medical attention, but I digress), you're supposed to judge people only by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. Carrying water for people like Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, and King Samir Shabazz by saying that they are not racist (as I have seen many of the well-intentioned do) does more to promote racism than the KKK ever could. As far as I'm concerned, Jeremiah Wright is David Duke is Louis Farrakhan is Bull Connor.
Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that race is more trouble than it's worth. In fact, I hate race. I hate race like some people hate religion. Just what good has the concept of race done for us other than divide us and give an inordinate amount of power to career politicians?
What's going to happen when white people are not the majority in this counrty anymore? That time is quickly approaching then I guess we will start getting the benefits of being a minority! LOL! What a joke! There will just be a whole lot of people that won't have an "excuse" anymore for the chip on their shoulder.
Perhaps those in "the Majority" for now should consider keeping in place those bits of help designed to help those in "the Minority". Just keep all that for a rainy day - when the demographics change, would be smart.
fab...
I belive the projected year is 2040...that's when the US will be majority-hispanic.
I guess my great-grandchildren will be speaking Spanish in school.
Stereo-typing is worst than racism sometimes. ALL minorities are not on the dole - I know more caucasians on welfare than black people (or any other minority). I don't have a job, but my husband does, so I am thankful for that. But we are not rich - we are in that bracket of living (almost) from paycheck to paycheck, but we do not qualify for assistance - not even foodstamps - learn to develop a taste for Ramen noodles and bologna sandwiches.
Everybody is not going to agree but stop and think for one second - 1% vs. 99%...that 99% is more like 30% and the remainder are families like mine - doing our best, paying our taxes, teaching our kids right from wrong, and happy to be in America.
BTW - I am black, my husband is white, and my daughter is bi-racial - we are ALL Americans - Thank you Dr. King.
One more thing, I have a college degree and my hubby didn't graduate high school...
Using the term racist makes instead of bigot makes you a bigot. There is only one race-the human race. You can be bigoted however as you so eloquently demonstrated.
And you can be predjudiced and that is perfectly ok too. I am predjudiced against people who play their music too loud. And against people who leave a picnic area a mess.I don't really care for people with bald spots. I really hate cleft palates. N.Y accents are a bit worrisome too.
See my point?? Everybody doesn't like something, but nobody doesn't like Sarah Lee.
I am a white man who has never met another white American who is the victim of racism. I've never even heard about a white American who is the victim of racism.
Those of you who were outraged by my earlier comment are only proving my point. Calling attention to some ill-percieved racism against whites is an attempt to deny or devalue racism against non-whites.
Dr King would have joined OWS. He was about equality and justice, so I find it appropriate that OWS would protest on this day.
Or any other holiday they can latch themselves onto to try to get the attention of the media...which has pretty much lost interest.
I lived in Orlando and racism is alive and well there, but its the Hispanics that dont want anyone else there ,or to work there but their own, they get in a place like an auto parts store or restraunt and the whites and blacks seem to disapear, every other bill board is in Spanish, its like they believe they own Florida, and companies will pander to anyone to make the all mighty dollar , I remember when products had only the english language on them, the trouble with this country is to many genric Americans ,thats right genric , my anscestors came from Germany in 1812 and they learned English and didnt try to turn America into Germany, I see it as the Constitution was written in English and the Bill of Rights and so on , if you dont like the culture pack up and go back to where your family came from.
OWS says they want jobs.....and equal opportunity....how do you achieve these things sitting in a tent in a park doing nothing ? you are changing nothing ...all you are doing is complaining......about life not being fair......well it's not.....get over it , go and do something positive.......and quit.....acting like spoiled children...........
I ask you, are you satisfied with the status of our country? If not, then stop condemning those that are exercising their right to free speech. It takes more energy to protest than it does to bitch about those who do.
If I believe an entire group of people are inferior for reasons other than JUST the color of their skin but by solid facts, is that racist? And if so, since it would now be backed up by solid facts, is that even a bad thing?
Oh, and please don't just answer with socialist brainwashed rhetoric. Back yourself up, whatever your answer.
Please cite some facts or reasons to back up that you are better than those of other races/religion/gender--and be specific as to which. I'm interested that such a mindset exists.
Isn't it great that America has a day devoted to a _____— communist???
Fair enough request...
It is my belief that different races have different attributes. Asians, for example, are often more intelligent. Blacks (especial males), for example, have a denser muscle structure and produce more testosterone. On average, of course; not every single one.
Differences in intelligence, for example, are easily found by googling IQ tests, SAT tests, and ACT tests by race, which are national standards for testing intelligence.
I found the same facts in google about muscle density in blacks.
This all shows we are different. Even doctors (I know a few, even black ones agree to this) know that there are different treatments for blacks and whites in certain aspects (it's not just color). There are diseases that effect blacks and not whites and vice versa.
What if I contribute these 'differences to some sort of superiority. If I find blacks stronger and more athletic, couldn't I find them superior in that aspect? What if I find Asians smarter than whites, and I hold intelligence as a superior aspect? Wouldn't that make me racist, in thinking that Asians are superior because they are smarter?
I certainly believe there are differences, and those differences are blocked by the fear of being labeled 'racist', but they are certainly there. I believe were are all different, and not just 'color'. It is when I judge those differences as either being superior or inferior to one another, that I just might be crossing the line into racism.
Spoken like a true bigot attempting to justify his filthy racist sand bigoted perception of life. It is your rationalization for hate. Wallow in it.
No A-hole AMERICA was not built on communism.
call your code pink pacifiers and occupy the toilet.
Hmm, mr. overpopulationistheproblem, you truly suffer from some major white guilt. On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe you ARE white like you keep trying to push so much. If you are foolish enough to think racism doesn't affect caucasians (or, shall we say, European-Americans), you've never been white and walked through a black neighborhood. Let's say Camden, NJ for example. I'm white, I've walked through there many times and I've encountered time and time again minorities hatred towards me simply because my skin is white. Now, there are many blacks who come through my neighborhood (plenty who live here too, so knock of the urban black vs. suburban white crap), and they NEVER have problems or have crap thrown at them because they're black. The cops never bother them either, because even if they were acting shady, that'd be racist, right? Hahaha, yeah.
You really don't know what you're talking about. Quit labeling every caucasian who stands up for there color and rights as a "racist." You're just showing what a moron you really are.
sandtrich.......the only ones bitching is you and your camping buddies........just my point......sure i would like to change things that need changing.........but there is no way in hell you or any of your camp followers are gonna change things sitting in a tent in a park.......complaining it's not fair........i do not care if you camp in the park really.......stay there as long as you like.......you will not change a thing......until you do something positive.....like vote.....maybe even run for office.....hell if obama can get elected president.......then anybody could.......no big fan for sure.......but you know he did not get to where he is today sitting in a park......saying .......it's not fair......he may have actually worked at it........but yeah.......no park no tent......and no whining.......now he brought change........screwed up beyond all belief........but he was successful as screwed up as that is......can you even do that? besides bitch that is...
Silly frank wasn't listening. He just wants to spout his intolerant bigotted brain washed socialized rhetoric. Don't you remember when I said, "Oh, and please don't just answer with socialist brainwashed rhetoric. Back yourself up, whatever your answer." But liberals, all they can do is throw insults and here's another example of brain washed liberal non-rational hate spewed intolerance.
Racism is defined as: The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
In no place is it required to HATE the race, or anyone else for that matter. The 'belief' is just simply indoctrinated into you by the intolerant liberal media who wish to worship and glorify the black man in movies and media.
Enough, stop pointing fingers at each other. Stop blaming each other for everything. Realize we are one species that needs to work together to make the world a better place. Yes we might look different from our neighbor. Yes we might some what look different then what we are use to seeing when we look in the mirror but we are all human beings. If you cut an Asian person they bleed red blood, if you cut Black person they bleed red blood, if you cut an Hispanic they bleed red blood, if you cut a White person they bleed red blood. Dr. Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Why is it so hard to grasp, why have we crushed his dream. I am not speaking to just white people but also to minorities, whites need to be accepted in or they will continue to assume the worse and arm for the worse. We all judge each other and it is not our place. Lead by example...Reach out to others...You would be surprised once ignorance is addressed...
What's the difinition for all the non-white racists out there - seems to be plenty of them.
The definition would be racists who are not white. Duh.
Progressive democrats/oblowhole worshippers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Easy there, Roberto. We Liberals vote for the most Liberal candidate. President Obama will grow on you, (over the next 4 years.) Then, I hope we get a real Liberal like Bernie Sanders of VT. As for the worship part, not even close.
I think the liberal definition for a non-white racist is:
I can't believe you are racist. You are a minority, how can that possibly be?!? I don't believe it, only white people are racist. How can you not like blacks? I refuse to believe it, I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and refuse to hear you.
Here's a novel idea... Why don't we all honor MLK by living by the words that he actually preached. Another good way to honor him would be to increase the high school graduation rate amoungst his followers. Less welfare dependency and lower crime rates would be nice too.
Impossible. That requires taking responsibility for their actions.
Yeah, why should they want to get off of welfare dependency? I mean, it works so well for all those white rednecks out in the country.
You've seen them, people who live in a ramshackle house, burdened by debt, failing to make themselves a proper living, but they come into town in a brand-new Ford F-150 will all the bells and whistles, blasting their stereos to Charlie Daniels, and sitting around drinking 6-packs all day long.
Lousy welfare kings. Oh, and they're white.
Your right! Silly me what was I thinking.
James,
That's the problem with his Dream... That damn human nature keeps getting in the way. Wouldn't it be nice though.
Sarah,
What would be really nice in light of MLK day, freedom of (logical) speech is to stop posting your self-proclaimed philosphy and irrational thoughts.
Justice whatever,
So you don't like what her post's are about, don't read them. But, don't try to dictate what others have to say because did doesn't please you. In plain english, don't be an $$shole.
Sarah's post was an inspiration and true.
@Janstink its funny how you are quick to be so racist and comparing one's way of living. I guess it would be out of line if i said something about how every morning when i'm going to work I have to pass two different public housing (since I'm a redneck we down here in the south call them #$g incubators) and as I pass its hard to understand how someone who gets welfare can be out on the corner drinking beer, smoking blunts and waiting for the light to change to red so they can wash my window for a quarter. Then after making enough to get them a 40oz go and hangout with their gang buds listening to rap music out of there $100 car with $5,000 wheels and stereo system. I normaly dont post because its just to easy to get caught up in someones comments. BTW at least the majority of rednecks i know actually own there on homes (even if it is a trailer and its theirs not the gov)
LOUSY WELFARE KINGS. OH BY THE WAY THEY'RE BLACK
Since when are "civil rights for all" an "antiquated notion"? Wow, just the heck with the Constitution, right?
Mrs ????,
You are a person in need of some serious help. Get it......fast, before you harm yourselve or someone else. Please!
How do you accomplish that with dysfunctional families without responsible father-figures?!
Well said, James; if only it would sink in. Nope, it will never. Self reliance isn't a concept they can grasp. I DO have to laugh when I see these inner city, welfare folks interviewed on MLK day to share their thoughts about MLK's so-called 'dream.' Hmm, I missed the part of that speech where he encourages his people to ride for free, give whites a hard time because they're white and continue to ruin the cities that, 100 years ago, were in much better shape while they were filled with hard working Irish, Italians, jews, Germans etc.
Yup, free at last (smh).
My point, mrs. elizabeth and CHAD, is that when you folks talk about the "welfare problem," you're almost always exclusively referring to black people.
What about the white people? The ones I mentioned, but also the ones that take government assistance for their farms? The dirt farmers. The ones that actually take the majority of welfare money? What about all those "tax cheats" and "hooligans?" You never hear anything about them, you never say anything about them. It's like, they don't exist. But, god forbid some black man buys a six-pack of beer. Then he's obviously a welfare cheat and fraud and scum.
Seriously, your "color blindness" is more like plain blindness.
Oh, and maybe, just maybe, you should put effort into figuring out a new way of helping these folks out. One that doesn't involve de facto segregation and "just let them kill each other" ideas. One that actually might work. Clearly, you think welfare isn't working. What's your plan (as noted, just taking away their welfare is not an option, it has to be replaced with something that will actually help lift them up from poverty)?
Dr. King family’s civil trial verdict: US government assassinated Martin
Posted on January 16, 2012 by Carl Herman
“What then is, generally speaking, the truth of history? A fable agreed upon.” - Napoleon Bonaparte [69]
The following is from : Occupy This: US History exposes the 1%’s crimes then and now (6-part series)
Dr. Martin Luther King’s family and his personal friend and attorney, William F. Pepper, won a civil trial that found US government agencies guilty in the wrongful death of Martin Luther King. The 1999 trial, King Family versus Jowers and Other Unknown Co-Conspirators, [70] is the only trial ever conducted on the assassination of Dr. King.
The King family’s attempts for a criminal trial were denied, as suspect James Ray’s recant of what he claimed was a false confession was denied. Mr. Ray said that his government-appointed attorney told him to sign a confession in order to receive a trial. When Mr. Ray discovered that his signature meant no trial, his and the King family’s subsequent requests were denied.
The US government also denied the King family’s requests for independent investigation of the assassination.
Therefore, and importantly, the US government has never presented any evidence subject to challenge that substantiates their claim that Mr. Ray assassinated Dr. King.
US corporate media did not cover the trial, interview the King family, and textbooks omit this information. Journalist and author, James Douglass: [71]
“I can hardly believe the fact that, apart from the courtroom participants, only Memphis TV reporter Wendell Stacy and I attended from beginning to end this historic three-and-one-half week trial. Because of journalistic neglect scarcely anyone else in this land of ours even knows what went on in it. After critical testimony was given in the trial’s second week before an almost empty gallery, Barbara Reis, U.S. correspondent for the Lisbon daily Publico who was there several days, turned to me and said, “Everything in the U.S. is the trial of the century. O.J. Simpson’s trial was the trial of the century. Clinton’s trial was the trial of the century. But this is the trial of the century, and who’s here?” ”
For comparison, please consider the media coverage of O.J. Simpson’s trials: [72]
“Media coverage of the Simpson trial, which began in January 1995, was unlike any other. Over two thousand reporters covered the trial, and 80 miles of cable was required to allow nineteen television stations to cover the trial live to 91 percent of the American viewing audience. When the verdict was finally read on October 3, 1995, some 142 million people listened or watched. It seemed the nation stood still, divided along racial lines as to the defendant’s guilt or innocence. During and after the trial, over eighty books were published about the event by most everyone involved in the Simpson case.”
The overwhelming evidence of government complicity introduced and agreed as comprehensively valid by the jury includes the 111th Military Intelligence Group were sent to Dr. King’s location, and that the usual police protection was pulled away just before the assassination. Military Intelligence set-up photographers on a roof of a fire station with a clear view to Dr. King’s balcony. 20th Special Forces Group had an 8-man sniper team at the assassination location on that day. Memphis police ordered the scene where multiple witnesses reported as the source of shooting cut down of their bushes that would have hid a sniper team. Along with sanitizing a crime scene, police abandoned investigative procedure to interview witnesses who lived by the scene of the shooting.
The King family believes the government’s motivation to murder Dr. King was to prevent his imminent camp-in at Washington, D.C. until the Vietnam War was ended and those resources directed to end poverty and invest in US hard and soft infrastructure.
Please watch this six-minute video of the evidence from the trial, [73] and this eight-minute video [74] on the FBI’s disclosures of covert operations against Dr. King, including confirmation from his closest friends and advisors.
Coretta Scott King, Dr. King’s wife, is certain of the evidence after 30 years of consideration from the 1968 assassination to the 1999 trial:
“For a quarter of a century, Bill Pepper conducted an independent investigation of the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. He opened his files to our family, encouraged us to speak with the witnesses, and represented our family in the civil trial against the conspirators. The jury affirmed his findings, providing our family with a long-sought sense of closure and peace, which had been denied by official disinformation and cover- ups. Now the findings of his exhaustive investigation and additional revelations from the trial are presented in the pages of this important book. We recommend it highly to everyone who seeks the truth about Dr. King’s assassination.” — Coretta Scott King, Dr. King’s wife.
The US Department of Justice issued a report in 2000 that explains their investigation into their own possible guilt in the assassination found no evidence to warrant further investigation. Dr. King’s son issued the following statement [75] rebuking a “self-study” rather than the independent investigation the King family assert the evidence demands:
“We learned only hours before the Justice Department press conference that they were releasing the report of their results of their “limited investigation,” which covered only two areas of new evidence concerning the assassination of Dr. King. We had requested that we be given a copy of the report a few days in advance so that we might have had the opportunity to review it in detail. Since that courtesy was not extended to us, we are only able at this time to state the following:
1. We initially requested that a comprehensive investigation be conducted by a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, independent of the government, because we do not believe that, in such a politically-sensitive matter, the government is capable of investigating itself.
2. The type of independent investigation we sought was denied by the federal government. But in our view, it was carried out, in a Memphis courtroom, during a month-long trial by a jury of 12 American citizens who had no interest other than ascertaining the truth. (Kings v. Jowers)
3. After hearing and reviewing the extensive testimony and evidence, which had never before been tested under oath in a court of law, it took the Memphis jury only one (1) hour to find that a conspiracy to kill Dr. King did exist. Most significantly, this conspiracy involved agents of the governments of the City of Memphis, the state of Tennessee and the United States of America. The overwhelming weight of the evidence also indicated that James Earl Ray was not the triggerman and, in fact, was an unknowing patsy.
4. We stand by that verdict and have no doubt that the truth about this terrible event has finally been revealed.
5. We urge all interested Americans to read the transcript of the trial on the King Center website and consider the evidence, so they can form their own unbiased conclusions.
Although we cooperated fully with this limited investigation, we never really expected that the government report would be any more objective than that which has resulted from any previous official investigation.”
Let’s summarize: Under US Civil Law, covert US government agencies were found guilty of the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Dr. King was the leading figure of the Civil Rights Movement, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, and widely recognized as one of the world’s greatest speakers for what it means to be human. The family’s conclusion as to motive was to prevent Dr. King from ending the Vietnam War because the government wanted to continue its ongoing covert and overt military operations to control foreign governments and their resources.
It is therefore a factual statement that under US Civil Law, the US government assassinated Dr. King.
This is similar that under Criminal Law, both O.J. Simpson and the US government are not legally guilty for murder, but both parties are guilty for killing innocent victims under Civil Law.
People of sufficient intellectual integrity and moral courage will embrace the trial evidence and testimony, jury conclusion, and King family analysis as appropriate and helpful information in seeking the facts.
People who at least temporarily reject challenging information out of fear might say something like, “The government killed Dr. King? That’s a crazy conspiracy theory!”
Let’s consider that statement.
When someone says that a body of evidence is “crazy,” or a “conspiracy theory” (meaning an irrational claim easily refuted by the evidence) that’s a claim. With a claim comes a burden of proof. In this case, the person would have to demonstrate command of the facts to explain and prove why the evidence from the civil trial is somehow “crazy” and easily refuted.
If the person can do this, it would be tremendously helpful in understanding the facts. However, we know from our experience that such statements almost always have zero factual support, and that the person making such a claim literally doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
We also know from our experience, a person making such a statement is really voicing an emotional reaction something closer to the spirit of, “The government killed Dr. King? Ok, I read and understood the paragraphs about the trial and evidence. I read Mrs. King’s and her son’s statement. I haven’t invested the time to verify how valid that information is. I’m not stupid, but because the implications of what that means is so disturbing, I’m going to deny anything about it could possibly be true as my first response. If I’m going to continue being in denial and refuse to discuss the evidence, I’ll attack the messenger.”
We also need to consider the lack of coverage by US corporate media of this compelling evidence, trial verdict, and King family testimony from over 30 years’ analysis of the facts. Recall the evidence of US corporate media reporting being infiltrated by CIA agents to propagandize Americans’ access to information. This included the Director of the CIA’s admission to Congress that they have over 400 agents working in corporate media to make the US public believe what the CIA wants them to believe.
In 2006, George Washington University used a Freedom of Information Act request to obtain the US military’s “Information Operations Roadmap.” This formerly secret and approved document details present US government strategies to generate propaganda, and then attack Internet alternative media that provides dangerous facts and discussion. The military promoted the term, “Fight the net.” [76]
Although I won’t enter the burden of proof here, you may know that there are similar and related bodies of evidence that the US government assassinated other American leaders who opposed key policies of an apparent violent faction within US government. The 1975 Senate Church Committee disclosed that the US government initiated and helped assassination attempts on multiple foreign heads of state. [77]
If we were discussing how the population of some other nation could employ critical thinking skills to understand current events from anytime in history, we would certainly understand the importance to anticipate disinformation from government, danger of controlled media, and assassination as a political weapon.
Failure to do so would appropriately elicit the label attributed to the first dictator of the Soviet Union, Vladimir Lenin. Such people who believe what their government tells them when the history and present have overwhelming objective evidence to explain, document, and prove that the government is typical of so many other historical self-serving oligarchies are:
“Useful idiots.”
To the extent the United States today is any different from all other nations and all other times is up to your exercise of critical thinking skills.
Booooo-Ring!
Care4
WAYYYY TOOO LONG
You are not writing a novel, you are writing a post
Brevity
care4mycountry,mychildren,myparents
Thank you for the well-researched post.
The Occupy losers will hijack anything or anyone. Dr. King stood for self determination. This is antithetical to these jackasses who think they are owed everything from someone else.
OWS has never asked for handouts. Where are you getting this misguided information. If anything we want to stop giving handouts to corporations.
this is a blatent lie. from the start of his democratically elected position of leadership in the southern christian leadership conference and civil rights leadership he was about communal determination. that is why he lead marches of many people, went to jail inbirmingham with many people, was killed at memphis getting ready to lead a march for worker's rights, was against the viet nam war which he felt was draining resources form the domestic problems affecting america.
take your revisionist history elswhere
what is antithecal is your aversion to the truth about mlk. he did not do anything by himself from the bus boycott to the march on washington prevaricator.
molly
How about Student Loans? Here is the OWS site about refusing to pay your Student Loans.
Welcome to the Occupy Student Debt Campaign. This campaign is a response to the student debt crisis and the dependency of U.S. higher education on debt-financing from the people it is supposed to serve. There is no justice in a system that openly invites profiteering on the part of lenders. Education is a right and a public good, and it should be properly funded as such.
http://www.occupystudentdebtcampaign.org/
Oh? they haven't? Wasn't part of their mantra to absolve them of ALL student loan debt? How soon you forget!!!!!
That's funny, they occupied a 2 block park across the street from where I work last fall. I remember being asked for a cigarette and spare change every time I stepped out onto the sidewalk.
Because many people want our Democracy to live by its own standards, the Occupy Wall Streets continue. The supporters are asking for economic, political and social equality. God bless these brave people.
"Obama" does not lie!
Luckily I cannot see your picture clearly because I am sure I would see horns on your head.
Me thinks you are the jackass. I was told from a very early age that it takes one to know another, ergo, you are the jackass and a liar, although and to be fair, one usually goes hand in hand with the other. It's obvious that, a la tea partier, you have an agenda and racist to super size your obvious racism to the nth degree, but trying to disguise it by mentioning MLK. You don't know what you are talking about. I don't know what your attention span, but it can't be an inch long. Didn't you read where the next step, according to those close to him, was to start the other fight: A non-violent protest for the rights of the poor. I don't know how intelligent you are, but I'll be kind and give you a 70 I.Q., otherwise, how can anybody think, who supposedly knows what MLK stood for and contructed to be not what OWS stands for? Read OWS manifesto and tell me that you don't see MLK sentiments in there. If you don't, then I have to conclude that you are allergic to the truth, but that is no one's else fault but yours. I can spot a tea partier miles away and that in my book, makes you, not only racist, but also masochistic and a political zombie. In other words, a Nazi to death.
Dan
I bet the OWS protesters broke you, cigarettes and change. Grow up Mr. Wall Street, you will one day be on the receiving end, of what you gave, one day. A cold hearted, lack empathy, slap in the face. And not by the liberals, you so hate but, by one of your neocon, egotistical elitists BBFs. Enjoy the ride now Dan. you won't be drinking champagne and laughing at the OWS protesters. You will cowering in a closet and sobbing because, your job will be eliminated. There are hundreds able and willing to take over your job!
PS Write me when you are in need.I will but you a carton of cigarettes and give you a couple of bills. It won't break me. I worked as a nurse for over forty years. I believe in "paying it forward." It warms my heart. Yeah, I'm a liberal.
For Dan42day. I don't know how stupid you are, but I think you are a person with "special needs." It's important when trying to contradict someone to comprehend what hand out means when speaking about what OWS means or stands for. Remember, you can't second guess the orator by misinterpreting what they are saying or referring to. Hand out, or better yet so you can understand, they mean hand out as stimulus money. They are not referring to buming out a cigarrette. If hand out means to you that it is what OWS means, stands for then you are hopelessly stupid. Many people, at work, at home, ask for cigarrettes, a dime or whatever and that is as American as apple pie and just as old and in those days they didn't know what OWS means either. Where do you think came from the phrase: Brother, can you spare a dime? Maybe, when commenting, you should leave your racism at the door and maybe that will make you see the truth, but I have my doubts. Once an ignoramus and a racist, always an ignoramus and a racist.
Hell, we all have "special needs"!
Racist?? Really? Where did you get that? 95% of them were white, same as me.
The fact is when I first started working downtown over 30 years ago, I found myself getting hit up for a cigarette 4-8 times a day. Same with the "spare change" thing. I couldn't afford to honor every request and was not willing to evaluate each situation. I came to the conclusion that the best course for me was to turn down all requests for money or cigarettes and honor all requests for a light, directions, or a chat. This includes everyone equally. I won't give or even sell a man in a $2000 suit a cigarette, and I won't turn down a dishevelled homeless person asking for a light on a cigarette he scrounged out of an ashtray.
I do contribute to the homeless shelters and food kitchens through payroll deductions in addition to the taxes that come out of my salary.
I do realize that there are people going through hard times, but I prefer to use my limited resources to help friends and family who need the help just as bad.
Many (not all, but quite a few) of the people I see on the streets are there because they enjoy the freedom from having to get up and go to work every day. I can hardly wait to retire and join them in that respect. They get fed and sleep in the shelters, many have benefits from social security and food stamps. The money they scrounge is used to buy alcohol and/or drugs. These people have burned through all their friends and family.
As for OWS.
They have not been able to focus on a message, partially because they are trapped by their own dogma of representing the 99%. I agree that the financial system in this country is rigged to benefit a select few people that get rich betting other people's money on shortsighted gambits to make a quick buck. They are not held accountable for the losses they cause, or the long term damage they do to the infrastructure of this country.
But to say that everyone in the top 1% of income in this country is guilty of that is just as wrong as assuming that all of the other 99% are willing to work hard to make a decent living.
I personally hope that OWS will eventually be able to focus on a message of economic justice and become a powerful influence in it's achievement, but they are not there yet.
Yeah, how dare those OWS people ask for handouts that are supposed to go to all those hardworking CEOs out there running their companies into the ground, then lining up for government bailout money. Shame on those OWS "jackasses", don't they know better: handouts are for corporations (remember, they're people now).
Hey O Lies,
Do your homework and read up on MLK before you start acting like you knew what he stood for.
In the weeks before his assassination MLK was trying to organize a movement that focused on economic equality for all races....soon after proposing such a valid notion, he was killed.
Occupy protesters are just picking up where MLK left off.
For Dan42day. Dan42day I give you an inch and you take a mile. Your way to interpret hand out is not what OWS is all about. Don't confuse militia with milk of magnesia, they might sound similar, but they are as separate as water and oil. You can distort facts to fit them to your agenda, but those distortions won't convince anybody not in your choir, ergo, that is an effort in futility to the nth degree. Let me explain, but before I do that, I'm assuming that we are trying to communicate in English. Hand out, according to the dictionary is defined as:" Food, clothing, or money given to the needy." It implies given, given is voluntarily given things to others. Maybe what you meant was panhandle, but then again, you didn't say that, ergo, you are wrong, dead wrong in comparing "hand out" with panhandling. Now, let me try the other side of the coin. What OWS is mad about and remember I don't speak for them, but I do know what they stand for and maybe you are afraid of using the right word, because its use will debunk your house of cards. The word? Stimulus. I hope you still remember that when the retard pervert from Texas and his puppeteer Paulson came asking for 750 billions that we never had to save the criminals of corporate America, they use stimulus as an offer we couldn't refuse and the rest as you well know is history. OWS wants those criminals that defrauded Joe Q. Public be accountable for their actions and just in case you ignore also what stimulus means, let me give you the definition: something that rouses or incites to activity: as a: incentive b: stimulant 1 . The government and their croonies wanted to save their purchasers and this nation and as usual went to bat for the criminals and now you want to use your agenda to re-write history, a la Dick Deferment Cheney or that other super coward, retard from Texas, well Dan I'm not that stupid, nor masochistic. I can't imagine ever how can people that most likely live from pay check to pay check can be so stupid as to give billionaires more billions while the nation, the 99% burn to the ground. I'l never understand such stupidity. It's like that Greyhound bus driver that looks into his 70s and refusing to take OWS members that wanted to protest not just for him, but all America. But even worse, I don't know how much time that poor Alzheimer's representative has been with Greyhound, but if long, guess what, they have an union, which in turn means they get a good salary, but I don't think that anybody in Greyhound belongs to the 1%.
I don't know if you are going to see your discreapncy in telling, or trying to spin the facts. Hand out doesn't equal OWS. Stimulus equals hand outs to corporations, or wouldn't you would like to have uncle Sam Billions at 0% interest? If you were4 ready to lose your house to foreclosure, wouldn't you like uncle Sam to come to your rescue? Of course you would, everybody would, except maybe that child in the Capital One commercial that doesn't want more money, but that kid doesn't know if he is a boy or a girl, much less if he would like to have more money or not. The rest, according the graph, says we all do want more money. Heck, even Bill Gates wants more money.
If you avoid the obvious, it makes you in my book, another phony as a tree dollar Joe the plumber.
As for OWS not focusing in the message? That tells me, again that you do have an agenda and how can I trust you telling the truth when you confuse or think that OWS is for hand outs. I don't understand and I know you are not alone in this thing about not focusing in the message, when any time you want, you can go on line and read their manifesto and the word hand out doesn't show up, not even once, what they do want is accountability. Remember they tried to arrest that retard pervert from Texas, but that coward ran again as he usually does when the going get tough.
Spare me those stories about how you did this or did that and I'm almost sure you got some help from uncle Sam along the way. That tea partier, coward also of John Boehmer also has a story to tell and he cries more than Mary Magdelene, but his story, or yours for that matter, don't have a damn thing to do with the issue at hand. The more I read your comment, the more you sound like Obama. Your are trying to appease evil and good, but that is impossible, so you, a la tea partier say things that you don't mean and mean things that you don't mean and that is more confusing that OWS not focusing.
OWS march started at an ancient slave burial ground and ended at the modern slave master headquarters... the Federal Reserve Bank. Very appropriate and classy!
yeah, but they chose a day when the Federal Reserve was closed and besides the slaves are certainly not all black, now days...
Duh... it was the MLK celebration day... federal holiday
The FR was actually closed to celebrate a 'sucker being born every minute day'
Like you, for example?
And all the bleeding hearts coming running out of the woodwork using MLK and whatever else to justify their behavior.
People, if you are not happy with the way America operates, please feel free to apply to move to another country. We don't need your agitation, whining or upset. tke it elsewhere, but don't think you can come crawling back!
Lol, you do realize MLK wasn't happy with the way America operated also, correct?
Funny, that's exactly why America fought for independence in the first place.
And that's exactly what all the suck-ups to British royalty told the colonists who fought for independence.
Right on, Sister Sarah! You go girl!
These people are lazy with a sense of entitlement! Where did this horrible work ethic and sense of entitlement come from? Look at the OWS crowds and you see a bunch of homeless people, college kids and losers that feel like they're entitled to something for nothing. I didn't have a pot to piss in either when I was young. That's why you go out and fend for yourself!
HHBBQ: If I may, I would like to comment on what you said. Only in America can you speak out about injustice. It is our RIGHT to do that, even when it is against our own government. If you really believe that people should leave this country because they voice an opinion that doesn't match yours, then perhaps you should go live in a dictator based country, because it sounds as though you have been brain washed.
hhbbq,
for some reason I think you would have fit in really well in 18th century Britain. Hell you might have made a fine King over there with your "don't fight against a broken system" attitude.
You represent the type of people that made the country the way it is by not doing something earlier. You let it happen and now we have this broken country of ours. So if you are looking for someone in the populous to blame, you need only look into a mirror.
Well also in Europe, Australia and big chunks of Africa and Asia but let's not let trivial little facts get in the way of a good rant.
... I suggest you do the thing I'm criticising you for suggesting. Just sayin'
It's funny how conservatives claim to be the moral superior to liberals when they don't even come close to following the golden rule.
I bet my life that Mosses, Jesus, and Mohamed would support the OWS movement, regardless of what the media and Faux news said about them.
There isn't anything wrong with demanding a say in how your country evolves. MLK did it, and now America is better off.
OWS is indeed a fake. They hijacked the home of a man in New York who moved out because it was in foreclosure proceedings and he was trying to work out something with the bank.
OWS broke in and moved in a "family" with great fanfare, calling in the news media to broadcast how they had "given" the home to the family. The real owner was there and asked them what they hell they were doing. The attorney for OWS quieted him down and asked him not to speak to the media and they would help him work out something with his bank to keep his home.
Then they backed out of their agreement. The "family" they moved in don't even stay there and were typecast as if for a video. Only OWS people stay there on a permanent basis. They have moved the real owner's things into storage, knocked out walls to make room for the freeloaders to throw down their sleeping bags, and generally trashed the place.
The real owner can't get any help moving them out.
Full story can be read in the New York Post.
But you can't provide a link. Oh, that's right, you never can.
I just told you that today's New York Post has the full story, you idiot.
flbikerchick
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/ows_home_invasion_z9ApqDP6Q0boFviq8CjvAL
I knew OWS was no good, but what they did to that man in Brooklyn SUCKS!I wouldn't be surprised to read of this guy evicting these idiots with a shotgun.
scrminmimi----the New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch. You could not have picked a more biased, unreliable source.
molly
How about this link??
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2012/01/owner-of-ows-foreclosure-in-eny-wants-his-house-back/
Or this link?
http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=859363&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&vote=viewresult&sid=928706abf4c081647fb2e95f90acb0d4
A man's home is his castle. Lock n load and advance with extreme predjudice!!!!
The New York Post!!!?? Really???? That Right wing rag has never told the truth so I wouldn't use that to prove your point.
Molly and Eddie
Before you open your mouth to trash a source, you should check the info doing a simple search. As noted above, two more sources for the same article have been given.
Yes I think the Post is crap, as is most of Murdochs empire. But that does not mean every article in it is a lie
You have been made a fool of when your own simple research could have avoided it.
DAMN YOU for making me defend the GD NY Post!
It's a crying shame! What a fu.ked up society.
You may have read the post but you really didn't understand it?
Ant when hitting a reply or making a post, it is a good idea to do it in the right place, note who made the post and if it is a long time after the post to which you are commenting on...to even recap or quote it.
Nobody but you has any idea what post you are talking about
lol
economic justice.
fight on.
go get a job pal!
i'm paying your way and my way.
economic justice would be you paying yours.
GoodVsEvil,
and what job would that be? The service sector is drying up, manufacturing is growing a bit but the wages will be depressed since they are coming back from the slave labor in China, technology jobs require you to have at least a 4-year degree, some a Master's.
Employers are not looking for trainers they are look for people with prior experience in the field. Coming out of college no one is going to have that experience and employers are no longer considering jobs either somewhere in the field or a field adjacent as proper experience.
It is not the job seekers fault that employers have insanely high standards right now; they should just hire whomever shows up and at least marginally qualified, train them on the job as they work, and be happy with what they get. Instead they are creating this apathetic jobs market on purpose because they do not want to spend a small amount of extra money training a new hire.
Then you factor in the age discrimination and you see the real problem. There are jobs out there in some places but almost no one is hiring, specially well paying jobs, because of stupid decisions.
Our schools are closed today and there is no trash pickup. Usual practice for a holiday, right? BUT. This is not the case for President's Day or Veterans Day. As for the trash pick-up, there is no change additionally for Memorial Day, July 4th, or Labor Day. So am I led to believe that a dead black leader is more important that any other US holiday?
I don't know where you live, but they picked up my trash today! The banks and libraries told us in advance that they would be closed. However, the sanitation workers can't take every holiday off because 1 day off, puts them 2 days behind. For example, Christmas was on a Sunday, my trash pickup day is Monday...they came by - but half of my neighborhood were not expecting them, so they had to run out at the last minute.
Also - why do we have to 'do something' today? Nobody 'works' on Labor Day...
And when are we going to shut down our communities for Arbor Day so I can plant a tree with my family...(lol - jking)
In White Plains, N.Y. I got a pre recorded call from the mayors office, that due to this "Holiday" no trash pick-up would be implemented on this date! Go suck an egg.
I happen to live in SC...
Uh I have not seen trash pick up on July 4th, Presidents day or any of the other days you mentioned. Perhaps your trailer park does it on those days for you?
you got something against people who live in trailers?
Sarah- Thanks I enjoyed your post's very much! I have a Dream for the American people to start working together!
and the keyword there is... working
Yes - but WORK is kryptonite to ows types
while i loathe 'predatory' lenders a little personal responsibility goes a long way.
I totally agree, however, personal responsiblity is a little hard when banks have zero responsibility to be transparent in their dealings and no fiduciary duty. How do people know they're getting a bad deal, if there's no accountablity or responsibility on the lendors part to even let the borrowers know other options exist, or what they're planning on doing with the borrower's obligations?
everything on my loan apps are pretty well spelled out.
It's not just what's on your apps. It's the fact that the financial system, after the internet and technology led to more transparency, and less profits for them I might add, made an agreement with our politicians that they could invest in these incredibly complicated markets, without having to discuss with the borrower what was happening to their obligations or their retirement funds.
There's no transparency required of the "Too Big to Fail" banks. Market rates, market tools, market options. yada, yada, yada, are all only discussed between the financial institutions, not with the customer.
no sarah - your wrong on so many levels - its the government you types wish to pay your way operate with no oversite. Failed liberal democrat policies are what has put us here - the democrats are the real oppressors
I believe I've mentioned numerous times my grievances towards the political end of this problem...
Than, we mix into this the political/legal side of things...
All those acronyms are LAWS passed by our LEGISLATURE, which is BOUGHT by the BUDDIES on WALL ST.
Does that make it easier to understand that I'm not a fan of what either side is doing right now???
They read the contract of the loan and if they can not read or do not understand it then they find someone who can or hire an attorney to represent their best interests.
Why is it always someone elses fault because you made a mistake or bad judgement or just had bad luck.
Lost,
Read the post above yours again. That's where the complete lack of transparency lays. In fact, the gov't said, because derivitives are complex financial tools, there's no need to share the info with the public.
It doesn't matter if you hire an attorney. The lack of transparency is LEGAL.
PC/NOT, you've GOT to be kidding! Any moron knows that it all fell apart with the Bush administration and all the deregulations they granted businesses, including their massive tax breaks. To make the "liberal at fault" claim is so lame on so many levels. You really need to wake up.
I agree, Lost.
PC/NOT
not all Democrats want a Government with no controls in place. I for one do want the Government to be held accountable for it's actions; like with all the crap they pulled in Afghanistan that Manning's information exposed.
I do not want a Government that can be bought off by Corporations, I do not want a Government that does not answer to the voters.
I also do not want a Government that allows Corporations to do as they please when it hurts this country. The banks are the ones creating the most hurt at the moment. They f***ed around with powers they did not fully understand and lost control in 2008. That is the simplest explanation for why the country went to hell like it did, the banks were not equipped to deal with the situation and only made it that much worse.
Next they beg the Government to bail them out, which should not have been done. The banks were akin to cancer at this point. You do not feed cancer insulin-like growth factor you excise them. Instead we gave them the growth factor (bailout + 7 trillion under the table).
The banks, instead of doing the moral thing with that money and using it to reduce the mortgages of their customers, gave the money to their CEO's. The fact that they paid it back doesn't matter a damn bit. It was never used for it's original purpose and that is why the housing market is still screwed and why we still have hundreds of thousands of foreclosures each year.
The only reason this was allowed to happen was because the S&P has no over sight. They were allowed to mix in these mortgages with Treasure Bonds. Thus boom. And now the banks and the S&P are not taking responsibility for their actions with the defense that "it was legal to do that". Why was it legal for them to lie about the quality of those loans?
Answer that question and we have the reason 2008 happened. The answer is because both Democrats and Republicans okay-ed deregulation of the financial industry, likely as the result of a large pay day in return.
There can be no accountability with out regulation either in the form of actual regulation or in the form of law. If there are no checks in place like this no one will take accountability because there are no consequences for lying about it.
You make it a federal felony with a 2 million dollar personal fine for each board member, and a 5 million dollar fine to the business attached and jail time for lying about irresponsible actions that lead to such a situation and they will tell the truth. Obviously amounts would be different on the actual law, that was just as an example.
Business is not going to do the ethical thing unless they are forced to by law, they will not cut back on pollution produced if it cuts into their profits unless there are laws requiring them to. They will cut corners in safety spending unless their are consequences for doing so.
I want a Government big enough to do it's job but not so big that it is inefficient. I do not want a Government so small it cannot do it's job either.
I am also not a Democrat even though I am registered as one, I am a Centrist. I will take a shine to any policy idea if it makes sense, does not matter where it comes from. Example I believe in the idea that the populous should be allowed to own guns, however I do not think we should be allowed to own assault rifles or any military grade hardware (that is current military grade, decommissioned stuff is fine). Or rather I see no point in owning military weaponry. Who needs a .50 cal sniper rifle other then to say they own a big ****ing gun?
I also believe in border control but I am not xenophobic either. Make the immigrants here illegally take the citizenship test or deport them. If they have families here give them temporary green cards to get a plan together then make them make the choice to take the citizenship test or leave.
I think we should provide for those less fortunate then we are both inside and outside of our country. I do not care that much about foreign aid to allies who really need it, ala Japan, but I also do not support foreign aid to those countries that use it as extortion, like Pakistan.
I do not advocate for unions nor corporations to be able to donate to any political entity. They are not people, they are a conglomerate of people. Unless both corporations and unions follow the same laws as a citizen they are not people.
I think that OWS has a very good point and I support more of what they stand for but not all of what they stand for. You do not have to wholly agree with something to support it.
I also support Anonymous and Wikileaks in most of the things they do. I want a Government that acts in the open and does not do things detrimental to the image of American, in my name, without me knowing.
I also want a Government that does not censor what it does not agree with, if I wanted a country that did any of those things I would move to China.
Well said, Geowil.
WHOOO HHHOOOO! Run for President! Im serious!
hey left wing liberals who supported these losers! see how they turn
on you and one your heroes of the left [even though he wouldn't be
a left wing socialist liberal] that you continue to twist and misuse
his words to push your liberal agenda! these people should be loaded
up and sent to mexico or some other horrible country where people
who are poor don't have any jobs or big tv or cell phone or dvd player
in their government free housing with their new car in the driveway
while collecting welfare and food stamps and unemployment and other
liberal freebies on the hard working tax payer!
goodvsevil: you seriously have no idea concerning the current economic situation and unemployment, "the liberal agenda" or anything else that matters. If I didn't know better, I would think you got all your info from Fox News.
gee mark - dont you know Fox is the highest rated news on cable - funny how you liberal hypocrites sang Foxes praises when they were dishing dirt on Bush. Your right - we should stick to credible news sources like huffington post or msnbc
funny how people automatically call those who point out the truth as liberals. American Idol used to be the highest rated show on TV, so what's your point. That the masses are stupid and follow the crowd?
Must we sling mud? Cool out! It doesn't matter what news source you subscribe to - they all put their own slant on every subject just as everyone here has a right to their own opinion. Once again, if you can not read the full article and post a comment 'based' on said article and respect other people's opinions, then read the article and move on to the next. You can bore your family with your nonsensical comments at the dinner table.
BTW @ Sarah - calm down a little - you make sense, but I can barely read your posts because it feels like you are yelling at me :(
PC/NOT uh McDonalds is the biggest restaurant chain in the world...that does not mean they have anywhere near the best food.
Popularity does not equal truth or good. If it did then Lady Gaga would be singing at the Metropolitan Opera, Wrestling (The fake WWF kind) would be an Olympic sport and Crocs would be on all the Runway Shows in Paris. BTW Fox may have the top ratings, but they certainly don't have anywhere near a plurality of the viewers one TV news. They have about 2-3% of the total news audience on TV. If you only count cable it is about 20%, but most people still watch Network News (ABC/CBS/NBC) ad Fox doesn't have that. Foxs Cume weekly is about 1.1 Million, Network on just those three is about 25 Million (Week Jan 2, 2012) Nielsen. And Fox is on 24 hours to get that, the Networks only count an hour or so a day.
And Advertisers buy numbers, not hype
Sarah, you seem to think you know more than anyone, but it is obvious you are just a lobotomized leftist loon!! As an example of your lack of knowledge or understanding, CDO's are "collateralized" debt obligations, you ignoramus. You can't even get out of the gate without screwing up!!!
http://zantrio.com/dictionary/consolidated_obligations.php
http://wirelessfederation.com/news/tag/consolidated-debt-obligations/
http://www.teachmefinance.com/Financial_Terms/Consolidated_Obligations.html
who cares... they were created by a GSE and that's the only reason why anyone on WS bought that sh!t
alex I note that you responded within 3 minutes to denigrate her sources. This shows you did not take the time to actually review them.
I am not defending her POV or her sources, only noting you decided they were "sh-t" without even looking at them.
Sad
Economic justice's MO is try and make everyone economically equal but in reality is ensures the that EVERYONE is poor.
that really is the current plan Tracy. The wealthy are not content until they pry your last penny from your fingers. No wait, not everyone should be poor. Just everyone except them. (Which also includes our Congress, where almost everyone is at least a millionaire.)
surely wouldn't want to have to work.
Mark you are talking about the wealthy in CONGRESS who's MO it to promote the BS progressive tax system. Yes the liberals in congress will not be satisfied until they can confiscate thru taxation every penny from our fingers. Good point!
What I am also talking about is the members of Congress that have allowed companies like GE to not only pay no taxes, but pay out tax rebates, even though GE posted profits in the billions. That's not the liberals, thats the Republicans. The wealthy in this country want it all, and they have the help of OUR government.
Companies like GE? The same GE whose CEO is Obamas jobs czar?
darro, what is your point, other then trying to connect the guy being on Obama's staff with GE paying no taxes. There a tons of companies that pay no taxes that have nothing to do with the Administration nor congress.
That said I agree with Mark, paying taxes without screwing customers should be made into a federal law so that companies cannot pass on the cost of taxes to their customers nor weasel their way out of paying taxes on all of their income.
How about jeffrey Immelt moving GE to China for it's CFB (that's compact flourescent bulbs) manufacturing and Radiology Technologies division, and oh yeah, Immelt caused the loss of 36,000 jobs at GE while he was the CEO. Hmmmm yup, a great pick for a jobs czar!!
Not saying I defended his choice I was just asking what point darro was trying to make. I happen to agree with you Robert, Immelt was a poor choice.
Can someone explain this economic justice? How is it considered "justice" to take from the producers and give it to the parasites? NOBODY OWES YOU YOUR EXISTENCE!!!!
Rock10, problem is that you are looking at it from only one perspective; the one that claims that OWS are like parasites that just want to eat off the system.
The truth of the matter is that there are millions of Americans that have been forcefully ejected from their careers by companies killing jobs just to keep their profits from pre-2008. Ever since 2008 the rich have been making a disproportionate amount of money to pre-2008 and the middle and lower class have been making much less compared to pre-2008.
economic justice is just a term for returning to pre-2008 salaries for everyone instead of the overly inflated CEO salaries and overly deflated employee salaries; or at least something that is more proportionate, say ceo making 130k to 200k and employees making 50k to 75k, then a ceo and board of directors making 350,000 a year while the highest paid employee makes only 30,000 (hypothetical example to prove the point).
Robert OK you slam him for job losses...I see that.
Uh How many jobs did Mitt Romney eliminate at Bain Capital?
Hint over 100,000
But he got more delivery people hired at Dominos
But hey...those are min wage jobs
And some more clerks at Staples
but those are min wage jobs too...not to mention how many small businesses that were run out of business by Staples
So much for the American Dream
The real American Dream is to get it cheaper cheaper cheaper,,,well thats why we have outsourced much manufacturing and people have crap min wage jobs...
Not all his fault by any means, but his vulture Capitalist tactics are.
BTW the "Vulture Capitalist" is a name coined for him by a Conservative Republican
Not a whole lot of Love today on this.
I hear ya, Gtouch
this guy is said to have more woman on the side then wilt chamerland had. so why is he a hero ? because he is a self ordained preacher, a black person, a person who was killed whats the deal with this guy? if he abusded a black child which he did on several ocasions is that alright with the child black parents because he is mlk?
Hey Bill, how do you feel about equal rights for gays? Do you think the person who makes a break-thru on that cause will also be honored as a hero? Maybe. People from the 60's recognize the need for protests, as many times that is the only thing that gets people's attention. We sure need lots of attention nowadays to how we're being screwed.
Hmmm...billc?...is that you Mr. Clinton?
What does his personal life have to do with what he tried to do for this country? I can think of many others who are "heroes" and don't deserve to be because of their personal lives.
Leilanithe1
billc is just another hater trying to juxtapose tarnish onto civil rights because the leader of said movement was not a saint. In short he is a troll.
Gotcha Geowil - well put.
Dr King would be so proud of you all.
Other than MLK's promotion of civil rights his economic idea's where right in line with Carl Marx. Not something to be proud of.
Tracy it is Karl Marx...
Maybe you should try a little education
And that was to a typo, the K and the C are not close, that was simple ignorance
Ah well
I see you can't or won't challange the fact the MLK's economics were in line with Marx's, therefore you resort to nit picking which in this case has ZERO to do with the crux of the fact I presented.
Try refuting the statement instead of resorting to the standard ignorant liberal retaliation of uh....nothing.
Also knock it off with wimp ass statements about everyone posting something you don't like and calling them "racist". The race card is for ignorant people who are too dumb to debate.
My business is working today, earning money and paying taxes for the lazy OWS (FLEA baggers) so they can protest for further class division and redistribution of working peoples hard earned dollars.
Frankly, if this is what MLK day is going to become. Take away it's Federal holiday status.
If by "redistribution of working people hard earned money" you mean that we want our tax dollars to be invested back into our communites instead of given to Wall Street bailouts, and Military operations overseas--then yes, OWS wants OUR wealth redistributed back to us.
Doubt you even have a business let alone what honoring a man of substance would entail!
That's funny, Because when I look at who OWS is I certainly do not see very many taxpaying citizens, I see people complaining they have student loans, I see people wanting others to pay for them, Where do you get that Wall street took anything from them, And Wall street paid back those bailouts with interest and our government actually made money on the deal, The bail outs kept all those pensions of all those teachers and firemen and police and all those other Unionized workers and all those mom and pop stores who have invested their money from losing it all, So even though I am not a big fan of the bailout I realized that without it our country would probably have suffered a serious setback that would have taken years possibly decades to recover from, Now that were on the topic of those bailouts...Just where did all that money that was repaid go to?
Justice Fleeting this is the second board I have seen you attack civil rights on today, you seem to take the side of bigotry and racism every time
Hmmm
With you...you have the right name
Justice is fleeting
Sad
Lose the hood
I just left this message because i think you are arrogant enough to come back and look at it! If your paying taxes we know your buss. is not a million dollar bet! Keep voting like you are and you will be paying double smart guy!
I have bookmarked the long post about OWS, with plans of sharing the intricate details with those who want to know, and with those who still doubt about their "lack of direction"...thank you Sarah!
In the midst of all of the wrangling about the message of OWS, it should be clear that the country is divided in half: Those who are satisfied with the status-quo vs those who are completely dissatisfied with the way things have gone on past and present!
Those calling the protestors of the OWS movement are nothing but status-quo mongers! The message from OWS is about social/economic justice for all, across the board - Why is it so difficult to understand that OWS is about correcting everything that is wrong with America? I guess the ranks of the satisfied citizenship are not moved or touched by the existing poverty, and the multitude of citizens being affected by the blight of corporate greed??
Yes, but what I don't understand is why a certain half of the voter population supports the very people and businesses practices that are screwing us over. Can anyone explain?
When they resort to trickery, slight of hand, lying and outright robbery to get their message across they are no better and even worse than those they condemn... because they purported to be better.
I refer to the sham story they put form about moving a "homeless family" into the house belonging to another man who is trying to keep that home for his own family.
It's starting to sound like OWS is the left wing of the Tea Party. All I can tell from OWS is they're angry and they want change; sounds like a Tea Party argument. Wait that's the same argument the Obama supporters ran on 'hope and change'. what happened...
0bama LIED !!!
@Citizen19 - It's more like the right wing of the Democratic party.
They're angry because they gave up!! Plain and simple. I watched a video of a woman at a jobs fair that was presented at an OWS site and all of her remarks were,"I can't work there, Not enough money, I don't like what they stand for" etc, so go hungry you picky bast.ad, but don't think that you are going to pick my pocket to support you. I'm in a job I hate but it's a job and it pays my bills. I don't have much for myself afterwards, but my bills get paid and that is what counts. I'm proud of how I manage to live within my means, I splurge sometimes with a credit card, but that's a debt that I created and signed for and am legally bound to pay! It's called RESPONSIBILITY," get some, people!!!
There is enough money for the wall street to steal! Why not let the poor protest! Its all they have! Banks stole they`re homes! Obama payed the banks to take they`re homes!They got $16,000,000,000,000.00 plus our homes! What about that do you not understand? Not hotel rooms HOMES, PEOPLES HOMES!
You mean the homes you got with INTEREST ONLY mortgages? Or the homes you got with loans you KNEW you couldn't afford? Or maybe the homes you got when you outright LIED on your mortgage apps? Its nice to blame the big bad banks but you signed on the dotted line. So many people on here trying to blame everyone else but at some point you have to look in the mirror too.....
So I guess by your account the banks had nothing to do with it, Wall Street is not culpable, and you are happy with corporate welfare and a government run by and for the corporations? Your apparent distaste for the poor is appalling.
Think about this one. What if the government sends every registered voter a check for an equal share of all that money that went to the banks and insurance companies instead of to them. Or even better.....send us all shares in them. We have money invested in them all now.....Where are my shares in the banks. I think maybe someone in Washington has them all in his hand.....do you think?
I thank my Brothers and Sisters of OWS for allowing my voice to be heard through them. PEACE OUT
Did you forget to vote?
AMEN