They both knew how to run a business! And would have probably have run governments of their respective countries better than the hacks in control ...
I'm not impressed. Anyone who is as ruthless as Guzman can make money dealing drugs. He has destroyed the Mexican government and their society by bribing officials and murdering those who cannot be bribed.
It's a simple case of supply and demand. If Americans stopped buying illegal drugs, there would be no drug cartel and no Guzman.
"Mr. Chapo, wouldn't it be great if you started trafficking with positive things? With cures for diseases, with food for street children, with alcohol for old people's homes so they spend their final days doing whatever they like, trafficking with corrupt politicians and not with women and children who wind up as slaves?"
And I thought that Hollywood created self-centered, egotistical, morons. Looks like it's fame that either does this or being a complete moron is a prerequisite for fame. Supplying old people's homes with alcohol? Brilliant! Wait! Did I miss the last published survey of residents of Old People's Homes? Maybe it was near the top of the list, just behind wanting their children and grandchildren to visit more.
Do we need Crocodile Dundee to storm the palace" Seems the more money you have the easier to find the paper trail...
I would hate to live like him even with all that money, you know soon enough he will end up caught or dead..He needs to be dead with all the killing he's done, similar to Bin Laden.
What does that say about our government. Is he sitting on this money under his mattress or is it in banks scattered around the world. I say they should do what they do to the king pin drug overlords in America. We have some hackers in and out of the Government who can relieve Mr. Guzman of his money with a few strokes on their computers and put this billion dollars into the IRS coffers in a day or two. No one gets madder han a hit man who hasn't been paid. Guzman lives because he can pay men to keep him in power, take away his ability to pay and someone will soon take him away. You can't make a bank transaction anywhere in the world that the Government can't track, nothing destroys a business faster than its cash flow drying up. This works for drug money as well as a clothing store.
Don't you people get it. It is not the drugs, lives or anything else. It IS about the money. Ever notice, outside the large drug bust, they usually catch a meth lab person from the hills of Missouri or elsewhere. But, never do you hear of them arresting any of the bigger fish. Isn't it odd that we have a est. five billion a year, tax free business going on and nobody in the upper echelon of society is caught being involved. Like the Kennedy's in the prohibition who made a fortune, there has to be some powerful people involved. Not just the meth labs and the Mexicans. Why is it our government finds Osama and all else, but never the kingpins. I believe and always will. We will be very shocked when and if we find out.
We have such a big drug problem and yet we are going to remove most of the few troops that we had put on our borders with Mexico while we keep over 100K troops in Afghanistan fighting for their freedom? what a joke. This country is NOT interested in fixing our drug problem, this situation works very well for our country and they want most of us to be drugged or stupid.
Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman whose estimated net worth is over one billion dollars according to Forbes magazine, has publicly thanked the United States for the War on Drugs.
The leader of the Sinaloa Cartel is both savvy and honest enough to know that his fortune is only possible due to the War on Drugs.
"I couldn't have gotten so stinking rich without George Bush, George Bush Jr., Ronald Reagan, even El Presidente Obama, none of them have the cajones to stand up to all the big money that wants to keep this stuff illegal. From the bottom of my heart, I want to say, Gracias amigos, I owe my whole empire to you."
There you go, is there any further proof needed to show that the war on drugs is an epic fail???
Ron Paul 2012 -end the monopoly on the drug trade that gets scum like this guy rich!!!
Actually, the CIA is the biggest drug dealers. Ask the Triads and how Opium gets into our country. Ask Noreiga about how the CIA was paying him to buy drugs from the sale of guns to the Nicaraguans. Ask the FBI why they had to give a CIA plane back to them after it was seized in a drug raid.
This man is a puppet for the CIA, just like "Highway Rick" was their puppet during Crack's heyday. Seek knowledge and you'll find truth.
This just proves that Mexicans Idolize Crimminals. Why do we allow these criminals (illegal entry to the U.S.A. is a crime) to wander our streets. Bring our soldiers home and put them on the border. Confiscate property from U.S. companies that intentionally hire illegals.
How about, while we're at it we confiscate the property of any US companies that have sent production to the third world, abused tax loopholes, and hired lobbyists to buy off politicians for their own profit?
Oh..if we did that, the people of the US would own every publicly traded corp that exists?
It appears that in Mexico, these @!$%#s are considered folk heroes, despite doing horrible things to everyone, including Mexicans. Kinda like how terrorists are idolized in certain parts of the Middle East.
End the War on Drugs now. Tax drug consumption. Drive the scumbags out of business.
As the saying goes, when the new government takes power in Mexico with the decreasing oil revenues and new hungry hands sticking out for more corruption money, you ain't seen nothing yet.
When the seeds of distrust have been sown by the government, you notice the citizens siding with the criminals.
A government that governs without the approval of its citizens, eventually, and very soon, doesn't govern. It doesn't matter how many guns or spys the government has.
A government that governs without the approval of its citizens...
What do you want, IMHO, a government that governs with the approval of all citizens ? I'm sorry, but you will never get it in a democracy. It's just impossible.
If you want a government that governs with the "approval" of all citizens, than you should consider moving to a place like North Korea.
We are not a Democracy, the US is a Republic. Get it right. In a Republic, it is done by the majority of citizens. Turn off FoxNews and actually read something for youself to gain knowledge and insight.
The major reason we still have the war on drugs is that when we catch all the bad guys, we steal their money, property and drugs. Now the magic question is how much drugs are actually destroyed and how much makes it back out onto market, sold by cops?
When the seeds of distrust have been sown by the government, you notice the citizens siding with the criminals.
A government that governs without the approval of its citizens, eventually, and very soon, doesn't govern. It doesn't matter how many guns or spys the government has.
Wake up America!
PeterB is right.
The problem in Mexico is not a lack of approval in government. It is fear.
Fear of the drug cartels and their complete lack of regard for law, drug dealers hellbent on having money and power above all else, above the common good of the citizenry.
Which political party does this bring to mind here?
I'm awake and I think the US is the light of the world in every respect. Provided we can get back to what makes America great. That is family, hard work and real values. Endless entitlements, wealth redistribution via the tax code and class envy is a path to national suicide.
I'm awake and I think the US is the light of the world in every respect. Provided we can get back to what makes America great. That is family, hard work and real values. Endless entitlements, wealth redistribution via the tax code and class envy is a path to national suicide.
Jesse, have you ever been anywhere else in the world? The U.S. is falling behind all the other first world countries in terms of education, health care and economic growth.
The problem here is not welfare. The problem here is that corporations run this country, and they are running it into the ground. The middle class is being phased out and replaced by the poor. More people are on food stamps than ever before, and it's not by choice.
Jesses position is typical of conservatives, if you think we have room for improvement, then you hate America.
"We're the light of the world!" Ha! Give me a break! I love our country too but, that's ridiculous. Right now, I think we're more like the scourge of the world.
trust2112 Get it right! The U.S. is a democracy with republic leanings. Study the definitions and demonstrating your ignorance just belittles what little meaning your comment has.
You better start turning on Fox News to educate the few gray cells that you do have working.
Why is it that leftists/democrats are so ignorant? Maybe you have been listening to your great leader Obummer who majored in Philosophy and worked on civil rights cases as a researcher.
He sure doesn't know how to be a leader or run a government.
The drug war in Mexico is never going to be won. All of Mexico is corrupt, from the corner cop to everyone in any aspect of the government, merchants and especially the president.
There are two sayings in Mexico. One is that Mexico was ruled first by the Incas and then by the Spaniards. It took the worse from both cultures.
The second saying is that Mexico is so close to the United States and so far from God.
This news is to remind you to never trust a Mexican. And it is to keep warning you that our future and present problem is to the south of the U.S.
Mexico in 1917 had its revolution and it ran on and on. In the end, the enormous productive farms and ranches were seized by the government and broken up into tiny land grants to the peons, who had no education, no tractors, no seeds, no money, no fertilizer nothing and production plummeted.
Now Mexico buys grain, corn, rice, gasoline and a lot of necessities from the U.S.
When the oil drys up, where are the Mexicans going to get the money to pay for all that?
Remember they are corrupt as hell and we should get the wall up by then and start beefing up the border and closing down the illegal immigration and the drugs.
Mexico is a tinderbox that is going to explode in the next 10 years. Obummer is clueless and probably hasn't given it two minutes of thought to this urgent problem.
So send the Marines to take him OUT! Oh I see then the government will not get that portion of the drug cash money--just have Afgnastan left! Oh my. What a shame. Legalize drugs and get the real money and stop lining pockets of all representatives in washington with cash.
Many of the same people who whine that big pharma charges too much for life-saving drugs, willingly turn over billions for illegal drugs that destroys their lives.
Illegal drugs is a $50 Billion/year business in the US. Is your drug dealer a Millionaire? Does he pay his fair share income tax?
ignorance is bliss...and you're extremely happy aren't you???
go to wallmart, I hear they have CLUES for sale...get one...
BTW dumbbutt...why would a criminal from MEXICO pay income tax to the USSA...jeeez...go back to playing with your barbie dolls and leave the important things to the grown-ups.
You make a good point about the illegality of drugs, but I take exception to the idea that drugs "destroy lives". Marijuana destroys far fewer lives than alcohol - if any at all - and if drugs were legalized and part of the tax revenue put toward drug addiction treatment programs, we would be much better off than we are now - and so would drug addicts, because drugs would be many orders of magnitude cheaper, so the rate at which people's lives would be financially destroyed would be substantially reduced.
cbawl You are clueless. The thought is that drug dealers in the U.S. who buy Mexican narcotics are millionaires in the U.S. and those people who sell drugs in the U.S. are not paying income taxes, not the ones in Mexico.
This is painful to read, but if we don't see drug laws reformed here in the U.S. soon, the cartels will penetrate into the U.S. even further than they already have. They're in south Texas already, that much is obvious. It could spread further.
The best way to stop the violence is to remove the market barriers in the drug world. Legalize drugs, track their sales, and let our economy benefit. I guarantee you that our farmers and chemists can make, transport, and sell these drugs cheaper, easier, and safer (for everybody) than the black markets can.
The problem is that when(not if) they finally legalize it, they are also gonna tax it to death. To try to keep control of the tax revenue they will still keep it illegal to grow for yourself. Then the blackmarket will persist because people will not want to pay 90+% tax on pot.
Unless legalization makes the stuff cheaper instead of more expensive, it will be useless.
Using taxation as an incentive is a bad idea in my opinion, especially right now when the country is sooo broke and washington is looking hard to find revenue.
Right now the rich and the middle class are fighting over who should be the biggest source of tax revenue. If you give them a third option, tax the potheads, they will jump on it and go way overboard.
If legalization doesn't mean I can grow it in my backyard, then I'm not too interested.
The cartels make much more than 90% profit. Realize that if the War on Drugs simply becomes a War on Cartels with domestically-produced drugs being legal, then the cartels WILL go out of business. There is a certain cost associated with smuggling and violence, a cost that the cartels cannot ignore.
CapitolPhil of course dumb down America more and destroy from within. You don't know that use of marijuana alters DNA sites related to intelligence and that this has been shown in animal experiments that this altered DNA is passed down to future generations?
Try doing some research before wasting your time on comments. Then look to the new drug bracelets that will be used on drug users and satellite monitored. Never heard of alcohol ankle bracelets that DUI convicted people have to wear as part of their parole?
Again look it up. Three companies make them. Courts are starting to make drug users wear them.
you are just really kind of stupid aren't you. My God you are advocating more govt. Put the pipe down son and just because something is in print doesn't make it right.
Where the stinking , filthy, evil, rich will pay for "schools, hospitals, and other public projects," and people will love them for being so gracious, while they steal from the people the resources that were theirs in the first place. Plus they will be used as slaves in the process, as the article points out.
If the stinking, filthy, evil, rich, in the country did not have a hand in Guzman's profits, he would not be allowed to exist.
Now that he is under fire, he must have crossed some of them.
I agree, except for the part about the filthy, evil, rich paying for hospitals, schools, or any other public projects.
I think it's more likely that they would just use their lobbyists to raise taxes on the poor to pay for that stuff.
Why should we pay for public schools? Our kids go to private schools!
Why should we pay for hospitals? The hospital I own has plenty of room on the waiting list.(as long as you have insurance!)
Why should we pay for public projects? The roads and bridges in my gated community are just fine.
And, they will expect us to love them because they are the ones graciously granting us the privalige of working 60 hours a week with no over time, insurance, vacation or benefits of any kind. Our benefits are getting to slave away for the profit of the allmighty "job creators" and actually eat once a day.
That's the future I see.... Oh wait, no...that's right fracking now!
At least the rich pay taxes. More than can be said for the 40% of Americans who pay no federal taxes and in fact get a check at the end of the year. The 'earned' income tax credit. The mentality that justifies using the government to take wealth from a minority and redistribute it to others is the death of democracy. The idea that me and my constituency can get together to vote to take your money is a complete perversion of any precept of democratic government.
Gt back to doing what is right, working hard and quit coveting your neighbors house.
It is definitelyy wrong and, what's worse is that it is not gonna get better anytime soon. Even if we manage to take it back some day, the rich, and the government that they own will try really hard to maintain the control they have spent the last hundred years or so developing and it would still get much worse before it started getting better.
Revolution is some NASTY business. Just ask anyone who ever lived through one.
Jesse, I don't covet(covet?what is this the dark ages?)my neighbors house. The people down the road from me(closest thing I have to neighbors) rent their house and I own mine so, I'm not too interested in anybody elses house.
I pay plenty of taxes, and I don't bitch about it either (well, maybe a little). I definitely don't blame and hate poor people for being that way just because I am lucky enough to make enough money that I have to pay taxes and they don't.
The earned income credit is for people who work and are raising kids. If you don't get one it is because you either don't have kids or you make over 40,000$ a year, in either case, you don't need one so, just be happy that you are doing so well.
At least the rich pay taxes. More than can be said for the 40% of Americans who pay no federal taxes and in fact get a check at the end of the year. The 'earned' income tax credit. The mentality that justifies using the government to take wealth from a minority and redistribute it to others is the death of democracy. The idea that me and my constituency can get together to vote to take your money is a complete perversion of any precept of democratic government.
Gt back to doing what is right, working hard and quit coveting your neighbors house.
Jesse, this is what Warren Buffet had to say on the subject:
The American economy is about 65% consumer-driven. When the majority of consumers--the middle class-- have little or no disposable income to spend (due to unemployment, low wages, high taxes) our economic system stagnates.
Wealthy people do not exist in large enough numbers to buy enough refrigerators, cars, food, etc. to keep our economy thriving. It takes all of us, spending our disposable incomes, to do that.
We need to restore the middle class to a position where they can participate in the consumer economy, and one of the best ways to do that is through lower tax rates on the poor and middle class.
A family with an annual income of several million dollars is not going to be hurt by paying extra taxes in absolute dollars like a family squeaking by on minimum wage earnings would be.
The Republicans want to squeeze blood out of the middle class stone and let those like Richie Rich Romney earn millions by cutting up, selling off and destroying companies and jobs.
The U.S. is working on patents for marijuana plants so they can claim copyright infringement, tax and sell it. Wall street investors are already working with igrow.So if mexico just legalized it and put up medical marijuana stores and cafes just their side of the border they could end the war and make billions b4 the U.S. kills off the competition and does it theirselves.There is a whole history channel series about it,so maybe the mexican president could buy the set and check it out.Working toward a better world and putting people to work would end alot of conflict.Where do the cartels get their ammo from?
You can patent genetic modifications but not an existing plant, and there are thousands of varieties of existing marijuana varieties - with growers developing new (patent free) ones every day.
Interesting, it seems that Ms. del Castillo is not only reluctant to bite the hand that feeds her, she is willing to overtly praise her master in the press. Good for Mr. Guzman. I'm sure her acting career was built all on its own too, without her doing anything for anybody!
Shouldn't Forbes list richest people who earn their money without links of harm to others? What value, then, is Forbes, other than exploitative entertainment, and don't we have enough of that with reality shows and E!Entertainment??
Shouldn't Forbes just list the world's richest people in its list of world's richest people, and leave the value judgment about how they earned their money to the readers?
Just a guess Snookums48, but I would guess that if Forbes took everyone off their list that had ties to harm to others.........The list could then be published on a post-it note.
Thank you ELH! My feelings exactly. And we are suppose to admire these people? See them as leaders? I don't think I could ever call up the ruthlessness it takes to suceed in todays world. All I want is the little bit we have HAD over the years and these f****** can't even allow us that!
We have no one to blame but ourselves. We consume most of the illegal drugs in the world and we create the black market that funds drug cartels by keeping drugs illegal - and this is particularly egregious because marijuana is basically harmless to human health, yet we CONTINUE to criminalize it for political reasons.
This is our fault. If you leave food out on the kitchen counter, bacteria will grow. You can be angry at the bacteria all you want, but it's pointless, futile, and stupid.
That's the most preposterous example of reasoning possible, Andrew547.
Using that same viewpoint, we all should blame mothers (ourselves) for having children (that fuel the pedophiles' urges), or farmers (ourselves) for growing barley and grapes (that are made into alcohol that leads to drunk driving, etc.), or blaming the Jews for existing to cause Hitler and modern-day Iran from becoming diabolical a**holes.
If you leave food out on the counter and it becomes ridden with bacteria, you THROW OUT the bacteria (regardless of the cost of the food), and you sure as hell wipe down all counters to purify it.
Mexican and American druglords take advantage of situations to engage in knowingly illegal activities. This all falls on their own shoulders.
Having observed the situation in Yemen, where the most valuable cash crop is Qat, a country where most of the men spend most of their money--money that could be better spent feeding their children-- and most of their time--time that could be better spent working-- sitting around chewing the mildly narcotic leaves of the Qat plant, I am disinclined to believe that more frequent and more widespread marijuana use would be a good thing for this country.
Does the drug problem begin and end with the legalization of pot? Do the traffickers suddenly give up their fiefdoms and retire to Miami Beach to live the good life paving the way for the rest of us to rest easy from the onslaught of armed militias and drug induced crimes? Not really.
The legalization of “drugs” says we as a society are ready to embrace another costly health risk to an even larger part of the "at-risk" population that already can't finish school, hold down a job, stay out of jail or pay for health care.
When we democratize drug use by kids and adults – even though they may responsibly use such substances from time to time - we accept the notion we are willing to subsidize more risky conduct (that others seem always ready to pay for, right?). We already have an issue with "regulated" prescription drugs, tobacco and alcohol, and apparently hamburgers, now we open the door wider to greater headaches.
Best case, let’s say pot use is manageable. Do you actually think the economic incentive goes away for people who want only to foster personal financial gain at any cost? The illegal money now in pot (and it’s not only there by any stretch) simply shifts to other forms of illegal drugs (i.e crystal meth labs, etc.) and then to newer designer drugs.
The drug problem mutates and escalates. Unlike substances merely ingested or consumed that clear the body (i.e. like alcohol or pot for most people) enhanced illegal substances modify brain function and change body physiology for every human that comes into contact with them. Where pot might not impact all, more serious drugs will affect all. They are the ultimate biohazard. And the consequences from our ability to create more designer drugs grows daily.
Perhaps if we as a society found it tolerable to throw up our hands and live with the fact that only a small percentage of the population "would find a way to use illegal substances anyway", legalizing “drugs” would be acceptable.
But the problem is clearly in the escalation. And the ensuing chaos. With all the people out there that are anxious to legalize drugs - already knowing how other drugs, alcohol and tobacco affect health – and continuing to promote “personal” freedom in the face of clear social costs caused by biohazards that will only multiply and create a greater and more widespread health risks among the general population (ala AIDS), do we just accept this as part of the price of freedom?
When is enough already? Do we say to our kids, “Hey, it’s OK in moderation” knowing almost every person who will come into contact with these new designer drugs will become addicted? Is that when we will finally wake up to reality and draw a line in the sand?
Faced with a choice between legitimizing "bad" behavior to dis-incentivize life threatening behavior, I think you permit (not embrace) the former, if it curbs the latter. Unfortunately, this absolutely will not curb the latter, it will simply escalate the stakes in an area where we least want to go.
Many would not sit still seeing poison seep into the public water supply without raising an alarm. Why is this situation any different?
Those who are in favor of legalizing drugs and drug use are missing something. Those people who say marijuana is no worse than alcohol are those who presuppose human beings can only find tranquility and relaxation by ingesting mind-altering substances.
All psychoactive drugs have side effects which negate their positive effects. If tobacco really relaxes people, why are smokers so stressed? If alcohol really makes people happy, why are alcoholics so depressed?
Now it has to be illegal for your own good, because locking people up is much better than addiction treatment.
/sarcasm
But the problem is clearly in the escalation. And the ensuing chaos. With all the people out there that are anxious to legalize drugs - already knowing how other drugs, alcohol and tobacco affect health – and continuing to promote “personal” freedom in the face of clear social costs caused by biohazards that will only multiply and create a greater and more widespread health risks among the general population (ala AIDS), do we just accept this as part of the price of freedom?
If people want to kill themselves, who are you or anyone else to stop them?
'Stopping the children' from using it is a straw man argument. They already are. No one is saying encouraging use if they are legalized. What they are saying is remove criminality for criminality's sake. I find it preposterous to believe that someone should be locked up for their addiction or ingestion or possession of a drug.
Look at our prison population, do you think that is sustainable indefinitely? When these people leave prison the chances of reoffense are much higher because their underlying condition has not changed.
How do you think we ended up in this situation, it was not an 'escalation' in demand, it was an escalation in the supply. This will continue forever.
Maybe after half a millenia of fighting this pointless war people like you will see that it is literally unwinnable.
Talk about preposterous examples of reasoning! Most of the problems with drugs all have to do with the fact that they are illegal.
I think, marijuana should be as regulated as caffeine. Heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines should be illegal to sell but not to possess. Most all Rx drugs should be sold over the counter. Medical training in self diagnosis should start in early highschool so people can get simple treatments without going broke to do it.
Marijuana is only a gateway drug because we have lied about it for decades comparing it to REAL DRUGS like heroin and cocaine. Then, when a kid gets out into the real world and sees for themselves that pot is NOTHING like what it was made out to be, they assume we are lying about all the rest of the REAL DRUGS and then the chaos ensues.
you hit the nail on the head Andrew547, we are the biggest consumer of drugs in the world and as long as there are millions of dollars to be made the cartels will continue to funnel drugs to this country and these idiots in Washington will continue to throw money at a war they will never win. my philiosphy is simple if you want to destroy your life with drugs be my guest it is your right to live your life the way you want.
Mexican and American druglords take advantage of situations to engage in knowingly illegal activities. This all falls on their own shoulders.
Bingo. Key word: illegal. I'm surprised you missed that as it was kind of the main point of my post.
You may take the view that organized crime was solely responsible for bootlegging alcohol and other crimes during prohibition, and they are certainly responsible for what they did, but I take the larger view that prohibition created the black market in which organized crime thrived, and that repealing prohibition cured that particular organized crime problem. I like my solution much better than yours. It saves billions of dollars and thousands of lives, and it is consistent with the "liberty" this country was founded on and that Republicans particularly claim to love so dearly and so vehemently protect.
Rick - every argument you lay out is deeply flawed. I don't have the desire to go through it at length, but here are some highlights:
"at risk" people who would do drugs already do drugs. Did prohibition curb alcohol use? No, it didn't.
Legalization is not "subsidization" or approval. Just because something is not illegal does not mean it's OK. Not everything that's not OK is illegal.
If the black market goes away the problem of drug trafficking goes away. See any alcohol traffickers get busted lately? How about cigarette traffickers? On the other hand, that was not the case during prohibition when alcohol was illegal, when Canada imposed huge taxes on cigarettes that made it profitable to traffic them illegally from the US, and recently in Norway, during a severe butter shortage when the price shot up to over $400 per pound, people were caught smuggling butter into the country. If this were a permanent butter shortage you can be sure butter cartels would have sprung up, and that they would have the same characteristics as drug cartels.
Any addiction changes brain function. You are wrong to exclude alcohol from your list. It is not just "the illegal drugs" but any and all drugs, and even some emotional states.
There will be no "chaos" from drug legalization. I live in a city where pot has been decriminalized. Crime is down. Drug dealers left. The city saved millions from not having to arrest, investigate, prosecute, try, and incarcerate people. Armageddon is your fantasy because you are uninformed and fearful.
Relating an increase in AIDS to drug legalization presumes people will use heroin in large numbers or suddenly have unprotected sex. Another fantasy.
There's more but I think this is enough. Your entire post is an ideological argument based solely on what you imagine might happen while completely ignoring the facts of what has happened in other similar situations, and the fact that people are already using drugs now, and the fact that decriminalization or legalization does not equate to an endorsement.
I found your post disturbing...not because I am so in favor of drug legalization that your argument was a downer, but because we can't even have a conversation if you ignore reality. Maybe that's your reality, but it's not THE reality.
I would be interested to know if we would increase addiction by legalizing or just have current addicts change their drug of choice. My childhood was destroyed, completely and utterly from alcohol, so I don't get why people make it out to be such a wonderful thing. Ever watch those macho beer commercials?
I seriously don't think one drug is better than another.
I would be interested to know if we would increase addiction by legalizing or just have current addicts change their drug of choice. My childhood was destroyed, completely and utterly from alcohol, so I don't get why people make it out to be such a wonderful thing.
I don't think anyone is advocating promoting hard drugs/marijuana on television. If you could be locked up for drinking alcohol how many people would be in prison?
I am beginning to believe that the reason the US wants to keep the war on drugs going, is because it is profitable for them. Who knows if the amount of money they say they seize is the real amount. I would be shocked if they weren't pocketing half of it. Then the amount they do admit to, goes into their own coffers to continue to fund their own interests.
Basically the US government doesn't give a rats @ss about the lives they destroy or the innocent lives lost, because this is such a big racket for them.
YOU are absolutely right, the US makes billions by letting drugs into the country, then they let trafikers accumulate billions then they sieze the money!!!
Hummmmm ... I'm with you mike austin .... And I sure would trust Guzman before anyone in the Mexican government! .. but the situation is quickly spiraling out of control in Mexico ... and the US powers are recognizing that the drug cartels are on the verge of controlling the whole country ...
Pablo Escobar did the same thing in Columbia ... and the US arranged to have him executed to show that this wouldn't be allowed to happen.
Think about it .. Mexico has over 55,000 dead due to the drug wars in the last five years ... thats more deaths then all of the "wars" we have fought around the world in the same period ! In the entire Vietnam war we had total casualties of under 59,000 troops in a all out war with bombing, extraordinary firefights and battles in twenty years ... (four times as long)
Mexico is at war ... regardless of what our government calls it ... and the drug cartels are gradually winning!
End this war the simple and right way .... Legalize Marijuana .. take away the profits from the cartels ... before they take over the country entirely!
Think about it .. Mexico has over 55,000 dead due to the drug wars in the last five years ... thats more deaths then all of the "wars" we have fought around the world in the same period ! In the entire Vietnam war we had total casualties of under 59,000 troops in a all out war with bombing, extraordinary firefights and battles in twenty years ... (four times as long)
A majority of deaths can be laid at the feet of the drug lords and their "war" with other drug lords for market share. By legalizing marijuana you would be happy, because getting cheaper pot is your real agenda, but this "war" as you call it is about coke and meth and to a lesser degree heroin and ecstacy. Legalizing these drugs would be devastating to society. The people of Columbia were able to take back their country and Mexico can too if we help them by completely sealing the border.
"Sealing the border?" that's laughable! .. you want to create another "Berlin Wall" Like the communist did ? Another "Iron Curtain?" ... gosh ... how Un American can you get?
Marijuana is the largest cash crop of every state in the union ... do you even have any concept of what that means to the American economy right now? The "War On Drugs" is a moronic response to a problem that didn't really exist, but was imagined and created. The drug lords are the businessmen men that filled void by providing supply based on demand from the USA ... that would have been filled by someone, somewhere! The answer is fill that from within .. let our own citizens enjoy the profits of business, not the drug lords ..
"End this war the simple and right way .... Legalize Marijuana .. take away the profits from the cartels ... before they take over the country entirely!"
I don't agree with the lady, but then again, I've never been subjected to the Mexican government. I'm guessing she thinks that when you have the government on one side and the cartels on another, the cartels are actually the lesser of two evils.
Mexico is therefore @!$%#ed up beyond all recognition.
I don't know why this story was planted today. I do know that I went through numerous Forbes lists and couldn't find the name Joaquin Guzman that was stated in the article. Come to find out the mans name is Joaquin Guzman Loera. Interesting that MSNBC got that wrong.
How can they measure his wealth? Does he have bank accounts? File income tax? Or has the government known about him for years and somehow documented his estimated earnings? And if the government has known about him for years and somehow Forbes is in on the big "secret" why is he still free?
The article states the government is going to freeze bank accounts and gives names but interestingly enough none of the names are the American connections. What, they can find the two Mexican and one Columbian connections but not the American connections where they wash and bank the money? The people who break it up and distribute it here? Let's see THOSE names!
It's been documented over and over again that our government is shoulder deep in the drug trade. Documented that our service people guard the growing fields and increase the acreage.
When are they going to quit this facade, own up to it, quit spending our tax dollar on their little war on drugs and either wipe out the fields (and yes they know where they all are) for real or legalize the @!$%#? Since wiping out the fields would cause world wars I guess the answer is to legalize. I think everyone in the back rooms have made enough money...don't you?
Look at the names on the Forbes list of billionaires. Who knew that banking was such a big business in the Middle East? Who knew beverages were so big in Mexico? Who knew that everything we know is about fraud? Just my opinion....
Every story you read about Mexico only convinces you further that the U.S. should build and maintain the biggest wall in the world to keep these morons out.
But The Great Wall of America would be intended to keep people out, not drugs. it would also make a dandy public works project with shovel ready jobs. And be a tourist attraction for a couple of thousand years. There's no way to lose, in the long run.
If it has been proven that he is in fact the most powerfull drug lord then my only question is this, Why is he still drawing breath ? For the right bounty on his head someone will know where he is!
Guzman and other cartels would have no profit left to continue.
The US; makes Gazillions in taxes, free's up our prisons releasing Gazzilions again, the DEA can lay off Gazzillions of employee's getting no where, and go after hard drugs.
Makes much more sense than the Experts current plans in force.
Just as with booze in prohibition times, new business would flourish and provide jobs and new tax revenue's.
No doubt, Obama's biggest contributor, based on this administrations failure to protect our borders and more recently, Holder's "Fast and Furious" gun running scheme!!!!
OMG Allie....how many times do we have to go over this for YOU? What did George Sr, Bill Clinton or George W. do over the 20 years they were in office about the border? And search for the name Oliver North.
david - Please tell us that you don't think the drug wars will end if we legalize drugs with a high tax? I am sure the local pot head will be smarter than to go to the local store and pay a high fee with the tax for a joint.
Individual liberty and personal responsibility. Conservatives love to throw around the concept of "personal responsibility" but don't seem understand what it actually means. The war on drugs is the antithesis of personal responsibility. Its the nanny state gov't.
Look we can say anything we want but the drug trade is big business and the government are doing nothing but crying like babies.The government can't control marijuana so they demonize it.If weed were to be legalised, we would not have so much turf killing or other crimes.People will be able to buy from whom they want at the price they want.
El Chapo must thanking us in the United States (his biggest customers) for all this money, not to mention all the weapons. We refuse to see that we helped create and feed the monster (he is only giving his customers what they want) and think we can fix it with a bigger walls. Who seems to high on it now?
He's like Ho Chi Min with money.
He's bigger than Pablo was .... if the two had been together they could have taken over Central America & the Northeastt coast of South America ..
They both knew how to run a business! And would have probably have run governments of their respective countries better than the hacks in control ...
I'm not impressed. Anyone who is as ruthless as Guzman can make money dealing drugs. He has destroyed the Mexican government and their society by bribing officials and murdering those who cannot be bribed.
It's a simple case of supply and demand. If Americans stopped buying illegal drugs, there would be no drug cartel and no Guzman.
And I thought that Hollywood created self-centered, egotistical, morons. Looks like it's fame that either does this or being a complete moron is a prerequisite for fame. Supplying old people's homes with alcohol? Brilliant! Wait! Did I miss the last published survey of residents of Old People's Homes? Maybe it was near the top of the list, just behind wanting their children and grandchildren to visit more.
Do we need Crocodile Dundee to storm the palace" Seems the more money you have the easier to find the paper trail...
I would hate to live like him even with all that money, you know soon enough he will end up caught or dead..He needs to be dead with all the killing he's done, similar to Bin Laden.
Drug dealers come in all forms, just look at the pill pushing bastards wearing white lab coats!
What does that say about our government. Is he sitting on this money under his mattress or is it in banks scattered around the world. I say they should do what they do to the king pin drug overlords in America. We have some hackers in and out of the Government who can relieve Mr. Guzman of his money with a few strokes on their computers and put this billion dollars into the IRS coffers in a day or two. No one gets madder han a hit man who hasn't been paid. Guzman lives because he can pay men to keep him in power, take away his ability to pay and someone will soon take him away. You can't make a bank transaction anywhere in the world that the Government can't track, nothing destroys a business faster than its cash flow drying up. This works for drug money as well as a clothing store.
Your a little off target" its not the slaves in the lab coats its the pharmaceutical giant.
Don't you people get it. It is not the drugs, lives or anything else. It IS about the money. Ever notice, outside the large drug bust, they usually catch a meth lab person from the hills of Missouri or elsewhere. But, never do you hear of them arresting any of the bigger fish. Isn't it odd that we have a est. five billion a year, tax free business going on and nobody in the upper echelon of society is caught being involved. Like the Kennedy's in the prohibition who made a fortune, there has to be some powerful people involved. Not just the meth labs and the Mexicans. Why is it our government finds Osama and all else, but never the kingpins. I believe and always will. We will be very shocked when and if we find out.
We have such a big drug problem and yet we are going to remove most of the few troops that we had put on our borders with Mexico while we keep over 100K troops in Afghanistan fighting for their freedom? what a joke. This country is NOT interested in fixing our drug problem, this situation works very well for our country and they want most of us to be drugged or stupid.
There you go, is there any further proof needed to show that the war on drugs is an epic fail???
Ron Paul 2012 -end the monopoly on the drug trade that gets scum like this guy rich!!!
Actually, the CIA is the biggest drug dealers. Ask the Triads and how Opium gets into our country. Ask Noreiga about how the CIA was paying him to buy drugs from the sale of guns to the Nicaraguans. Ask the FBI why they had to give a CIA plane back to them after it was seized in a drug raid.
This man is a puppet for the CIA, just like "Highway Rick" was their puppet during Crack's heyday. Seek knowledge and you'll find truth.
This just proves that Mexicans Idolize Crimminals. Why do we allow these criminals (illegal entry to the U.S.A. is a crime) to wander our streets. Bring our soldiers home and put them on the border. Confiscate property from U.S. companies that intentionally hire illegals.
How about, while we're at it we confiscate the property of any US companies that have sent production to the third world, abused tax loopholes, and hired lobbyists to buy off politicians for their own profit?
Oh..if we did that, the people of the US would own every publicly traded corp that exists?
Yeah, that does sounds like a good idea!
It appears that in Mexico, these @!$%#s are considered folk heroes, despite doing horrible things to everyone, including Mexicans. Kinda like how terrorists are idolized in certain parts of the Middle East.
End the War on Drugs now. Tax drug consumption. Drive the scumbags out of business.
As the saying goes, when the new government takes power in Mexico with the decreasing oil revenues and new hungry hands sticking out for more corruption money, you ain't seen nothing yet.
When the seeds of distrust have been sown by the government, you notice the citizens siding with the criminals.
A government that governs without the approval of its citizens, eventually, and very soon, doesn't govern. It doesn't matter how many guns or spys the government has.
Wake up America!
What do you want, IMHO, a government that governs with the approval of all citizens ? I'm sorry, but you will never get it in a democracy. It's just impossible.
If you want a government that governs with the "approval" of all citizens, than you should consider moving to a place like North Korea.
Del Castillo didn't praise Guzman, she said her government is less trustworthy than a drug trafficker. Big Difference.
We are not a Democracy, the US is a Republic. Get it right. In a Republic, it is done by the majority of citizens. Turn off FoxNews and actually read something for youself to gain knowledge and insight.
The major reason we still have the war on drugs is that when we catch all the bad guys, we steal their money, property and drugs. Now the magic question is how much drugs are actually destroyed and how much makes it back out onto market, sold by cops?
PeterB is right.
The problem in Mexico is not a lack of approval in government. It is fear.
Fear of the drug cartels and their complete lack of regard for law, drug dealers hellbent on having money and power above all else, above the common good of the citizenry.
Which political party does this bring to mind here?
This is why America needs to wake up.
trust, the United States is not a democracy ? That's a good one !
Get it right, my friend, the United States is a democracy with a republican form of government.
I'm awake and I think the US is the light of the world in every respect. Provided we can get back to what makes America great. That is family, hard work and real values. Endless entitlements, wealth redistribution via the tax code and class envy is a path to national suicide.
Jesse, have you ever been anywhere else in the world? The U.S. is falling behind all the other first world countries in terms of education, health care and economic growth.
The problem here is not welfare. The problem here is that corporations run this country, and they are running it into the ground. The middle class is being phased out and replaced by the poor. More people are on food stamps than ever before, and it's not by choice.
Jesses position is typical of conservatives, if you think we have room for improvement, then you hate America.
"We're the light of the world!" Ha! Give me a break! I love our country too but, that's ridiculous. Right now, I think we're more like the scourge of the world.
America was once the best place to live in. Anyone who thinks it still is must be insane.
Maybe not the best, since no country is, but still one of the best. By the way, I don't live in America.
trust2112 Get it right! The U.S. is a democracy with republic leanings. Study the definitions and demonstrating your ignorance just belittles what little meaning your comment has.
You better start turning on Fox News to educate the few gray cells that you do have working.
Why is it that leftists/democrats are so ignorant? Maybe you have been listening to your great leader Obummer who majored in Philosophy and worked on civil rights cases as a researcher.
He sure doesn't know how to be a leader or run a government.
One of the effects of marijuana is that it impairs judgement and affects the DNA that controls intelligence. Trust has serious mental/social issues.
The drug war in Mexico is never going to be won. All of Mexico is corrupt, from the corner cop to everyone in any aspect of the government, merchants and especially the president.
There are two sayings in Mexico. One is that Mexico was ruled first by the Incas and then by the Spaniards. It took the worse from both cultures.
The second saying is that Mexico is so close to the United States and so far from God.
You know what? Both are true.
So who paid for this non-news BS???
Non news? You don't want to know about who is Mr. Big right now? Oh, sorry, is MSNBC not covering enough Brangelina stories for you?
Ifo
Have you noticed there is a world out there?
This news is to remind you to never trust a Mexican. And it is to keep warning you that our future and present problem is to the south of the U.S.
Mexico in 1917 had its revolution and it ran on and on. In the end, the enormous productive farms and ranches were seized by the government and broken up into tiny land grants to the peons, who had no education, no tractors, no seeds, no money, no fertilizer nothing and production plummeted.
Now Mexico buys grain, corn, rice, gasoline and a lot of necessities from the U.S.
When the oil drys up, where are the Mexicans going to get the money to pay for all that?
Remember they are corrupt as hell and we should get the wall up by then and start beefing up the border and closing down the illegal immigration and the drugs.
Mexico is a tinderbox that is going to explode in the next 10 years. Obummer is clueless and probably hasn't given it two minutes of thought to this urgent problem.
So send the Marines to take him OUT! Oh I see then the government will not get that portion of the drug cash money--just have Afgnastan left! Oh my. What a shame. Legalize drugs and get the real money and stop lining pockets of all representatives in washington with cash.
Better yet send me a few million first.
worth so much money he's even got a price tag on his head, unlike most of the others on forbes list.....
Many of the same people who whine that big pharma charges too much for life-saving drugs, willingly turn over billions for illegal drugs that destroys their lives.
Illegal drugs is a $50 Billion/year business in the US. Is your drug dealer a Millionaire? Does he pay his fair share income tax?
ignorance is bliss...and you're extremely happy aren't you???
go to wallmart, I hear they have CLUES for sale...get one...
BTW dumbbutt...why would a criminal from MEXICO pay income tax to the USSA...jeeez...go back to playing with your barbie dolls and leave the important things to the grown-ups.
You make a good point about the illegality of drugs, but I take exception to the idea that drugs "destroy lives". Marijuana destroys far fewer lives than alcohol - if any at all - and if drugs were legalized and part of the tax revenue put toward drug addiction treatment programs, we would be much better off than we are now - and so would drug addicts, because drugs would be many orders of magnitude cheaper, so the rate at which people's lives would be financially destroyed would be substantially reduced.
I'm not sold on the idea that legalizing drugs is the solution to the problem.
The two drugs that do the most harm in the world--alcohol and tobacco-- are both legal drugs.
Can you just imagine how border crime would drop if these drugs were legalized?
cbawl You are clueless. The thought is that drug dealers in the U.S. who buy Mexican narcotics are millionaires in the U.S. and those people who sell drugs in the U.S. are not paying income taxes, not the ones in Mexico.
My god, how little they understand.
This is painful to read, but if we don't see drug laws reformed here in the U.S. soon, the cartels will penetrate into the U.S. even further than they already have. They're in south Texas already, that much is obvious. It could spread further.
The best way to stop the violence is to remove the market barriers in the drug world. Legalize drugs, track their sales, and let our economy benefit. I guarantee you that our farmers and chemists can make, transport, and sell these drugs cheaper, easier, and safer (for everybody) than the black markets can.
Put the gangs and cartels out of business.
legalize it.
The problem is that when(not if) they finally legalize it, they are also gonna tax it to death. To try to keep control of the tax revenue they will still keep it illegal to grow for yourself. Then the blackmarket will persist because people will not want to pay 90+% tax on pot.
Unless legalization makes the stuff cheaper instead of more expensive, it will be useless.
Using taxation as an incentive is a bad idea in my opinion, especially right now when the country is sooo broke and washington is looking hard to find revenue.
Right now the rich and the middle class are fighting over who should be the biggest source of tax revenue. If you give them a third option, tax the potheads, they will jump on it and go way overboard.
If legalization doesn't mean I can grow it in my backyard, then I'm not too interested.
If government earns revenue by taxing illegal drugs, what is their incentive--to increase sales or decrease sales?
I do not want my government in the business of pushing drugs.
They already do. They are called pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, that is correct.
The cartels make much more than 90% profit. Realize that if the War on Drugs simply becomes a War on Cartels with domestically-produced drugs being legal, then the cartels WILL go out of business. There is a certain cost associated with smuggling and violence, a cost that the cartels cannot ignore.
CapitolPhil of course dumb down America more and destroy from within. You don't know that use of marijuana alters DNA sites related to intelligence and that this has been shown in animal experiments that this altered DNA is passed down to future generations?
Try doing some research before wasting your time on comments. Then look to the new drug bracelets that will be used on drug users and satellite monitored. Never heard of alcohol ankle bracelets that DUI convicted people have to wear as part of their parole?
Again look it up. Three companies make them. Courts are starting to make drug users wear them.
My god, the dumbing down of America has started!
you are just really kind of stupid aren't you. My God you are advocating more govt. Put the pipe down son and just because something is in print doesn't make it right.
Welcome to the future of the good ol US of A.
Where the stinking , filthy, evil, rich will pay for "schools, hospitals, and other public projects," and people will love them for being so gracious, while they steal from the people the resources that were theirs in the first place. Plus they will be used as slaves in the process, as the article points out.
If the stinking, filthy, evil, rich, in the country did not have a hand in Guzman's profits, he would not be allowed to exist.
Now that he is under fire, he must have crossed some of them.
I agree, except for the part about the filthy, evil, rich paying for hospitals, schools, or any other public projects.
I think it's more likely that they would just use their lobbyists to raise taxes on the poor to pay for that stuff.
Why should we pay for public schools? Our kids go to private schools!
Why should we pay for hospitals? The hospital I own has plenty of room on the waiting list.(as long as you have insurance!)
Why should we pay for public projects? The roads and bridges in my gated community are just fine.
And, they will expect us to love them because they are the ones graciously granting us the privalige of working 60 hours a week with no over time, insurance, vacation or benefits of any kind. Our benefits are getting to slave away for the profit of the allmighty "job creators" and actually eat once a day.
That's the future I see.... Oh wait, no...that's right fracking now!
You see it right. But it's downright WRONG!
At least the rich pay taxes. More than can be said for the 40% of Americans who pay no federal taxes and in fact get a check at the end of the year. The 'earned' income tax credit. The mentality that justifies using the government to take wealth from a minority and redistribute it to others is the death of democracy. The idea that me and my constituency can get together to vote to take your money is a complete perversion of any precept of democratic government.
Gt back to doing what is right, working hard and quit coveting your neighbors house.
It is definitelyy wrong and, what's worse is that it is not gonna get better anytime soon. Even if we manage to take it back some day, the rich, and the government that they own will try really hard to maintain the control they have spent the last hundred years or so developing and it would still get much worse before it started getting better.
Revolution is some NASTY business. Just ask anyone who ever lived through one.
Jesse, I don't covet(covet?what is this the dark ages?)my neighbors house. The people down the road from me(closest thing I have to neighbors) rent their house and I own mine so, I'm not too interested in anybody elses house.
I pay plenty of taxes, and I don't bitch about it either (well, maybe a little). I definitely don't blame and hate poor people for being that way just because I am lucky enough to make enough money that I have to pay taxes and they don't.
The earned income credit is for people who work and are raising kids. If you don't get one it is because you either don't have kids or you make over 40,000$ a year, in either case, you don't need one so, just be happy that you are doing so well.
Jesse, this is what Warren Buffet had to say on the subject:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html
The American economy is about 65% consumer-driven. When the majority of consumers--the middle class-- have little or no disposable income to spend (due to unemployment, low wages, high taxes) our economic system stagnates.
Wealthy people do not exist in large enough numbers to buy enough refrigerators, cars, food, etc. to keep our economy thriving. It takes all of us, spending our disposable incomes, to do that.
We need to restore the middle class to a position where they can participate in the consumer economy, and one of the best ways to do that is through lower tax rates on the poor and middle class.
A family with an annual income of several million dollars is not going to be hurt by paying extra taxes in absolute dollars like a family squeaking by on minimum wage earnings would be.
The Republicans want to squeeze blood out of the middle class stone and let those like Richie Rich Romney earn millions by cutting up, selling off and destroying companies and jobs.
We're on to them.
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Unlike Warren Buffett, most uber-rich people are also uber-greedy. We need more billionaires like Buffett and Gates, and fewer like Murdoch.
I agree with Jesse, it's a crime that all those people don't pay taxes. We should force them to have to pay, by increasing the minimum wage.
The U.S. is working on patents for marijuana plants so they can claim copyright infringement, tax and sell it. Wall street investors are already working with igrow.So if mexico just legalized it and put up medical marijuana stores and cafes just their side of the border they could end the war and make billions b4 the U.S. kills off the competition and does it theirselves.There is a whole history channel series about it,so maybe the mexican president could buy the set and check it out.Working toward a better world and putting people to work would end alot of conflict.Where do the cartels get their ammo from?
You can patent genetic modifications but not an existing plant, and there are thousands of varieties of existing marijuana varieties - with growers developing new (patent free) ones every day.
Interesting, it seems that Ms. del Castillo is not only reluctant to bite the hand that feeds her, she is willing to overtly praise her master in the press. Good for Mr. Guzman. I'm sure her acting career was built all on its own too, without her doing anything for anybody!
Shouldn't Forbes list richest people who earn their money without links of harm to others? What value, then, is Forbes, other than exploitative entertainment, and don't we have enough of that with reality shows and E!Entertainment??
Shouldn't Forbes just list the world's richest people in its list of world's richest people, and leave the value judgment about how they earned their money to the readers?
Yes, they should.
Just a guess Snookums48, but I would guess that if Forbes took everyone off their list that had ties to harm to others.........The list could then be published on a post-it note.
Thank you ELH! My feelings exactly. And we are suppose to admire these people? See them as leaders? I don't think I could ever call up the ruthlessness it takes to suceed in todays world. All I want is the little bit we have HAD over the years and these f****** can't even allow us that!
The gov't has always been corupt in all types of dealings as someone stated we'll be surprised at the outcome
We have no one to blame but ourselves. We consume most of the illegal drugs in the world and we create the black market that funds drug cartels by keeping drugs illegal - and this is particularly egregious because marijuana is basically harmless to human health, yet we CONTINUE to criminalize it for political reasons.
This is our fault. If you leave food out on the kitchen counter, bacteria will grow. You can be angry at the bacteria all you want, but it's pointless, futile, and stupid.
AMEN... prohibition was a failure and the "drug war" is a failure too.
That's the most preposterous example of reasoning possible, Andrew547.
Using that same viewpoint, we all should blame mothers (ourselves) for having children (that fuel the pedophiles' urges), or farmers (ourselves) for growing barley and grapes (that are made into alcohol that leads to drunk driving, etc.), or blaming the Jews for existing to cause Hitler and modern-day Iran from becoming diabolical a**holes.
If you leave food out on the counter and it becomes ridden with bacteria, you THROW OUT the bacteria (regardless of the cost of the food), and you sure as hell wipe down all counters to purify it.
Mexican and American druglords take advantage of situations to engage in knowingly illegal activities. This all falls on their own shoulders.
Having observed the situation in Yemen, where the most valuable cash crop is Qat, a country where most of the men spend most of their money--money that could be better spent feeding their children-- and most of their time--time that could be better spent working-- sitting around chewing the mildly narcotic leaves of the Qat plant, I am disinclined to believe that more frequent and more widespread marijuana use would be a good thing for this country.
Does the drug problem begin and end with the legalization of pot? Do the traffickers suddenly give up their fiefdoms and retire to Miami Beach to live the good life paving the way for the rest of us to rest easy from the onslaught of armed militias and drug induced crimes? Not really.
The legalization of “drugs” says we as a society are ready to embrace another costly health risk to an even larger part of the "at-risk" population that already can't finish school, hold down a job, stay out of jail or pay for health care.
When we democratize drug use by kids and adults – even though they may responsibly use such substances from time to time - we accept the notion we are willing to subsidize more risky conduct (that others seem always ready to pay for, right?). We already have an issue with "regulated" prescription drugs, tobacco and alcohol, and apparently hamburgers, now we open the door wider to greater headaches.
Best case, let’s say pot use is manageable. Do you actually think the economic incentive goes away for people who want only to foster personal financial gain at any cost? The illegal money now in pot (and it’s not only there by any stretch) simply shifts to other forms of illegal drugs (i.e crystal meth labs, etc.) and then to newer designer drugs.
The drug problem mutates and escalates. Unlike substances merely ingested or consumed that clear the body (i.e. like alcohol or pot for most people) enhanced illegal substances modify brain function and change body physiology for every human that comes into contact with them. Where pot might not impact all, more serious drugs will affect all. They are the ultimate biohazard. And the consequences from our ability to create more designer drugs grows daily.
Perhaps if we as a society found it tolerable to throw up our hands and live with the fact that only a small percentage of the population "would find a way to use illegal substances anyway", legalizing “drugs” would be acceptable.
But the problem is clearly in the escalation. And the ensuing chaos. With all the people out there that are anxious to legalize drugs - already knowing how other drugs, alcohol and tobacco affect health – and continuing to promote “personal” freedom in the face of clear social costs caused by biohazards that will only multiply and create a greater and more widespread health risks among the general population (ala AIDS), do we just accept this as part of the price of freedom?
When is enough already? Do we say to our kids, “Hey, it’s OK in moderation” knowing almost every person who will come into contact with these new designer drugs will become addicted? Is that when we will finally wake up to reality and draw a line in the sand?
Faced with a choice between legitimizing "bad" behavior to dis-incentivize life threatening behavior, I think you permit (not embrace) the former, if it curbs the latter. Unfortunately, this absolutely will not curb the latter, it will simply escalate the stakes in an area where we least want to go.
Many would not sit still seeing poison seep into the public water supply without raising an alarm. Why is this situation any different?
Thank you for an excellent post, Rick!
Those who are in favor of legalizing drugs and drug use are missing something. Those people who say marijuana is no worse than alcohol are those who presuppose human beings can only find tranquility and relaxation by ingesting mind-altering substances.
All psychoactive drugs have side effects which negate their positive effects. If tobacco really relaxes people, why are smokers so stressed? If alcohol really makes people happy, why are alcoholics so depressed?
For a long time many drugs were legal.
(Yes, even heroin and cocaine)
Now it has to be illegal for your own good, because locking people up is much better than addiction treatment.
/sarcasm
But the problem is clearly in the escalation. And the ensuing chaos. With all the people out there that are anxious to legalize drugs - already knowing how other drugs, alcohol and tobacco affect health – and continuing to promote “personal” freedom in the face of clear social costs caused by biohazards that will only multiply and create a greater and more widespread health risks among the general population (ala AIDS), do we just accept this as part of the price of freedom?
If people want to kill themselves, who are you or anyone else to stop them?
'Stopping the children' from using it is a straw man argument. They already are. No one is saying encouraging use if they are legalized. What they are saying is remove criminality for criminality's sake. I find it preposterous to believe that someone should be locked up for their addiction or ingestion or possession of a drug.
Look at our prison population, do you think that is sustainable indefinitely? When these people leave prison the chances of reoffense are much higher because their underlying condition has not changed.
How do you think we ended up in this situation, it was not an 'escalation' in demand, it was an escalation in the supply. This will continue forever.
Maybe after half a millenia of fighting this pointless war people like you will see that it is literally unwinnable.
Talk about preposterous examples of reasoning! Most of the problems with drugs all have to do with the fact that they are illegal.
I think, marijuana should be as regulated as caffeine. Heroin, cocaine, and amphetamines should be illegal to sell but not to possess. Most all Rx drugs should be sold over the counter. Medical training in self diagnosis should start in early highschool so people can get simple treatments without going broke to do it.
Marijuana is only a gateway drug because we have lied about it for decades comparing it to REAL DRUGS like heroin and cocaine. Then, when a kid gets out into the real world and sees for themselves that pot is NOTHING like what it was made out to be, they assume we are lying about all the rest of the REAL DRUGS and then the chaos ensues.
you hit the nail on the head Andrew547, we are the biggest consumer of drugs in the world and as long as there are millions of dollars to be made the cartels will continue to funnel drugs to this country and these idiots in Washington will continue to throw money at a war they will never win. my philiosphy is simple if you want to destroy your life with drugs be my guest it is your right to live your life the way you want.
Bingo. Key word: illegal. I'm surprised you missed that as it was kind of the main point of my post.
You may take the view that organized crime was solely responsible for bootlegging alcohol and other crimes during prohibition, and they are certainly responsible for what they did, but I take the larger view that prohibition created the black market in which organized crime thrived, and that repealing prohibition cured that particular organized crime problem. I like my solution much better than yours. It saves billions of dollars and thousands of lives, and it is consistent with the "liberty" this country was founded on and that Republicans particularly claim to love so dearly and so vehemently protect.
Rick - every argument you lay out is deeply flawed. I don't have the desire to go through it at length, but here are some highlights:
"at risk" people who would do drugs already do drugs. Did prohibition curb alcohol use? No, it didn't.
Legalization is not "subsidization" or approval. Just because something is not illegal does not mean it's OK. Not everything that's not OK is illegal.
If the black market goes away the problem of drug trafficking goes away. See any alcohol traffickers get busted lately? How about cigarette traffickers? On the other hand, that was not the case during prohibition when alcohol was illegal, when Canada imposed huge taxes on cigarettes that made it profitable to traffic them illegally from the US, and recently in Norway, during a severe butter shortage when the price shot up to over $400 per pound, people were caught smuggling butter into the country. If this were a permanent butter shortage you can be sure butter cartels would have sprung up, and that they would have the same characteristics as drug cartels.
Any addiction changes brain function. You are wrong to exclude alcohol from your list. It is not just "the illegal drugs" but any and all drugs, and even some emotional states.
There will be no "chaos" from drug legalization. I live in a city where pot has been decriminalized. Crime is down. Drug dealers left. The city saved millions from not having to arrest, investigate, prosecute, try, and incarcerate people. Armageddon is your fantasy because you are uninformed and fearful.
Relating an increase in AIDS to drug legalization presumes people will use heroin in large numbers or suddenly have unprotected sex. Another fantasy.
There's more but I think this is enough. Your entire post is an ideological argument based solely on what you imagine might happen while completely ignoring the facts of what has happened in other similar situations, and the fact that people are already using drugs now, and the fact that decriminalization or legalization does not equate to an endorsement.
I found your post disturbing...not because I am so in favor of drug legalization that your argument was a downer, but because we can't even have a conversation if you ignore reality. Maybe that's your reality, but it's not THE reality.
Then how can anyone have a conversation with a conservative, ever?
I would be interested to know if we would increase addiction by legalizing or just have current addicts change their drug of choice. My childhood was destroyed, completely and utterly from alcohol, so I don't get why people make it out to be such a wonderful thing. Ever watch those macho beer commercials?
I seriously don't think one drug is better than another.
I would be interested to know if we would increase addiction by legalizing or just have current addicts change their drug of choice. My childhood was destroyed, completely and utterly from alcohol, so I don't get why people make it out to be such a wonderful thing.
I don't think anyone is advocating promoting hard drugs/marijuana on television. If you could be locked up for drinking alcohol how many people would be in prison?
I am beginning to believe that the reason the US wants to keep the war on drugs going, is because it is profitable for them. Who knows if the amount of money they say they seize is the real amount. I would be shocked if they weren't pocketing half of it. Then the amount they do admit to, goes into their own coffers to continue to fund their own interests.
Basically the US government doesn't give a rats @ss about the lives they destroy or the innocent lives lost, because this is such a big racket for them.
Stop the Killing - Legalize Drugshttp://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Stop-the-Killing-Legalize-Drugs/187032334728120?sk=wall
YOU are absolutely right, the US makes billions by letting drugs into the country, then they let trafikers accumulate billions then they sieze the money!!!
Everything you've ever heard bad about pot is a lie. The real reason it's illegal is because hempseed oil is much cheaper to produce than diesel.
I know what the lady means in this story , i would trust the mafia before i would trust the u.s. government.
Hummmmm ... I'm with you mike austin .... And I sure would trust Guzman before anyone in the Mexican government! .. but the situation is quickly spiraling out of control in Mexico ... and the US powers are recognizing that the drug cartels are on the verge of controlling the whole country ...
Pablo Escobar did the same thing in Columbia ... and the US arranged to have him executed to show that this wouldn't be allowed to happen.
Think about it .. Mexico has over 55,000 dead due to the drug wars in the last five years ... thats more deaths then all of the "wars" we have fought around the world in the same period ! In the entire Vietnam war we had total casualties of under 59,000 troops in a all out war with bombing, extraordinary firefights and battles in twenty years ... (four times as long)
Mexico is at war ... regardless of what our government calls it ... and the drug cartels are gradually winning!
End this war the simple and right way .... Legalize Marijuana .. take away the profits from the cartels ... before they take over the country entirely!
moonbeamracer,
A majority of deaths can be laid at the feet of the drug lords and their "war" with other drug lords for market share. By legalizing marijuana you would be happy, because getting cheaper pot is your real agenda, but this "war" as you call it is about coke and meth and to a lesser degree heroin and ecstacy. Legalizing these drugs would be devastating to society. The people of Columbia were able to take back their country and Mexico can too if we help them by completely sealing the border.
Svenolafson ... what a absurd argument! LOL
"Sealing the border?" that's laughable! .. you want to create another "Berlin Wall" Like the communist did ? Another "Iron Curtain?" ... gosh ... how Un American can you get?
Marijuana is the largest cash crop of every state in the union ... do you even have any concept of what that means to the American economy right now? The "War On Drugs" is a moronic response to a problem that didn't really exist, but was imagined and created. The drug lords are the businessmen men that filled void by providing supply based on demand from the USA ... that would have been filled by someone, somewhere! The answer is fill that from within .. let our own citizens enjoy the profits of business, not the drug lords ..
"End this war the simple and right way .... Legalize Marijuana .. take away the profits from the cartels ... before they take over the country entirely!"
I don't agree with the lady, but then again, I've never been subjected to the Mexican government. I'm guessing she thinks that when you have the government on one side and the cartels on another, the cartels are actually the lesser of two evils.
Mexico is therefore @!$%#ed up beyond all recognition.
And the reason this person has attained this wealth is the United States idiotic drug war.
All that money and all i need is $8,000.00 to jack my house up before the floors hit the dirt. SAD
I don't know why this story was planted today. I do know that I went through numerous Forbes lists and couldn't find the name Joaquin Guzman that was stated in the article. Come to find out the mans name is Joaquin Guzman Loera. Interesting that MSNBC got that wrong.
How can they measure his wealth? Does he have bank accounts? File income tax? Or has the government known about him for years and somehow documented his estimated earnings? And if the government has known about him for years and somehow Forbes is in on the big "secret" why is he still free?
The article states the government is going to freeze bank accounts and gives names but interestingly enough none of the names are the American connections. What, they can find the two Mexican and one Columbian connections but not the American connections where they wash and bank the money? The people who break it up and distribute it here? Let's see THOSE names!
It's been documented over and over again that our government is shoulder deep in the drug trade. Documented that our service people guard the growing fields and increase the acreage.
When are they going to quit this facade, own up to it, quit spending our tax dollar on their little war on drugs and either wipe out the fields (and yes they know where they all are) for real or legalize the @!$%#? Since wiping out the fields would cause world wars I guess the answer is to legalize. I think everyone in the back rooms have made enough money...don't you?
Look at the names on the Forbes list of billionaires. Who knew that banking was such a big business in the Middle East? Who knew beverages were so big in Mexico? Who knew that everything we know is about fraud? Just my opinion....
Every story you read about Mexico only convinces you further that the U.S. should build and maintain the biggest wall in the world to keep these morons out.
You must have missed the video that shows how they get into the US via tunnels.
and submarines.
And drones.
But The Great Wall of America would be intended to keep people out, not drugs. it would also make a dandy public works project with shovel ready jobs. And be a tourist attraction for a couple of thousand years. There's no way to lose, in the long run.
If it has been proven that he is in fact the most powerfull drug lord then my only question is this, Why is he still drawing breath ? For the right bounty on his head someone will know where he is!
Legalize and tax Marijuana .
Guzman and other cartels would have no profit left to continue.
The US; makes Gazillions in taxes, free's up our prisons releasing Gazzilions again, the DEA can lay off Gazzillions of employee's getting no where, and go after hard drugs.
Makes much more sense than the Experts current plans in force.
Just as with booze in prohibition times, new business would flourish and provide jobs and new tax revenue's.
No doubt, Obama's biggest contributor, based on this administrations failure to protect our borders and more recently, Holder's "Fast and Furious" gun running scheme!!!!
OMG Allie....how many times do we have to go over this for YOU? What did George Sr, Bill Clinton or George W. do over the 20 years they were in office about the border? And search for the name Oliver North.
Your obsession with ABO renders you stooopid.
Either take him along with his peddlers out or legalize drugs and tax the hell of it.
david - Please tell us that you don't think the drug wars will end if we legalize drugs with a high tax? I am sure the local pot head will be smarter than to go to the local store and pay a high fee with the tax for a joint.
The drug wars will end if govts stop fighting, terrorizing, and caging human beings. Individual freedom to control my own body, what a concept.
The taxes on Medical Marijuana don't seem to be killing the business. But they did balance Colorado's budget.
marijuana should be legalized, it is a wonderful medical break thru drug for many medical issues,wise up america
How about forgetting the "legalization and taxation" and just decriminalize it?
What was that I read somewhere about the "pursuit of happiness"?
Individual liberty and personal responsibility. Conservatives love to throw around the concept of "personal responsibility" but don't seem understand what it actually means. The war on drugs is the antithesis of personal responsibility. Its the nanny state gov't.
Look we can say anything we want but the drug trade is big business and the government are doing nothing but crying like babies.The government can't control marijuana so they demonize it.If weed were to be legalised, we would not have so much turf killing or other crimes.People will be able to buy from whom they want at the price they want.
Tommyt, get out your history book and read about the Opium Wars in China.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
El Chapo must thanking us in the United States (his biggest customers) for all this money, not to mention all the weapons. We refuse to see that we helped create and feed the monster (he is only giving his customers what they want) and think we can fix it with a bigger walls. Who seems to high on it now?