I suggest we pay off the $3.7 TRILLION we still owe on the wars since 9/11 before we start flexing our military might with China.

America is broke!

Military might isn't the answer. The economy of the United States is the real reason the United States was a superpower. Without the strongest economy in the world to support it, the military would be a shadow of what it is now.

It's a global world and it's likely other economies (China for example) will surpass the United States and become the largest economy in the world in the not to distant future.

I've been to China. While the United States spends huge sums of money on defense, the Chinese are spending similar amounts on infrastructure and competitveness initiatives. Why? Because they understand that being the strongest military means nothing if you don't have the economy to back it up.

The United States and China just can't get along for some reason. Every so often one of them gets pissed at what the other does. Neither can afford to go to war though.

I would have to say that the rest of the world has allowed the US to spend, defend and contribute to other countries until we have spent ourselves poor. This is unsustainable. We need to stop the spending, this means money to UN and all foreign nations and organizations. The US needs to take time to pay off debt and let someone else take over the defense and support of other nations. Oh wait, they don't have armies? They don't have money?

Uhhh....we were actually allies with China in WWII. remember Chang Kai Cek (sic), the Flying Tigers, etc.

The corporate elite aren't raping China, they're raping us. That's why China has all the jobs and corporate profits are soaring.

Frankie,

There is one problem with that. If we kept taxes the same and stopped all international actions to pay off our debt, Congress would figure out some way to spend every past penny and still run a deficit.

Everbody Wants their; OWN SPACE !!.. GET OUT OF MY FACE !!!.. that is the ; Bottom Line here........

chuck,

We were also allies with the Soviet Union. Look how well that turned out!

The Russians had to fight 80% of the German military for 4 years even though the US got to write the mythology of its less than one year on the ground in Europe and of DDay- much smaller than Operation Bagration carried out by the USSR in July 1944 on the massive Eastern Front center.

China is a growing country and needs all the raw materials available for its factories to supply the world of cheap mass produced low quality product to generate billions $$. China 1st step is to control South china sea and claim Islands that are 600 miles away as it's territory. Bullying smaller South East Asian country with it's military might and ignoring those countries rights is typical china plan for expansionism. When US decided to counterbalance the Pacific. China is watching and toeing down and by warning the USA to be carefull hoping the USA to quiver and backing down. China claim on South China Sea is based on historical reason. real reason is that these Island contains good amount of gas and petroleum for China use. China, will never tell US what to do or threats. Challenging the US in high seas or air will not work for china economy. Cina should be careful itself on words and action and stop acting as a bully to its neighbor.

China wants to be a friend and has fought with the USA against Japan. When you say no it then is very difficult to change that into a yes. Here is a chance to develope the large investment that the Chinese have already made in American corporations into a friendlier solution for both countries.

China has never used its military for imperialism, except for Tibet, which they see as a part of China.

You all talk about how china was our ally in WW2, well I am pretty sure everyone else but Europe has turn their back on us since then.

Actually, the United States and China historically had very amicable relations until the ascent of Mao Tse-Tung in 1949. One reason that China is among the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council is because that country's then-dominant leader, Chiang Kai-Shek, was a firm ally during WWII.

Evolving U.S. defense strategy recognizes that now China seeks to exercise more influece regionally. At least presently, China does not actually have the ability to represent a threat beyond neighboring countries. Of course that will change over time.

There are many good reasons for the U.S. and China to get along with each other. And there are many good reasons for the two nations to avoid conflict.

As long as Americans believe they have a RIGHT to $50/hr with HS diploma... "Made in the USA" is a fantasy

http://www.thrivemovement.com/the_problem-follow_the_money

Their all Central Bank employees

@!$%# the Chinese! They may have billions of people. But, they do not have our technology, they do not have our airpower, and they do not have the complete loyalty of all who live within their borders. THAT, more than anything else, is what the Chinese need to have before the pick a fight with us.

Beyond that, they make a great moo-shoo pork, with two pancake.

I agree the US must be careful with Its Pacific and/or Asian military refocus. Hopefully everyone understands that. At the same time though, the Chinese need to be very careful also. Wonder if the "Totalitarian Regime" governing China really understands Its diminishing cycle of power over that country? 20 to 30 years out, China will be so focused on internal problems, threats, and likely revolution from within, It isn't likely to be able to commit Itself to concerns beyond Its borders. The day China allowed American capitalism inside Her borders is the day that country changed forever. Fact, that's the way it is the world over, even in those countries run by religious fanatics.

J. Merle - you make a lot of assumptions with your post. The biggest of which involves loyalty of the people. I've been to China. Done business there. I can tell you that the Chinese people are very nationalistic. They're proud of their country. They would fight just as hard as any American would defending their home.

Perhaps you should read the article again. The Chinese weren't picking a fight. They were asking the American government to be careful when taking action(s).

China vs USA……It is interesting to watch the UN Security Council sessions, sitting around the table discussing the world’s security, it seems. What they are really doing is “jockeying” for position and advantage, one over the other, each one for themselves. There can never be anything else no matter what anyone says. Like in this case China is trying to assert itself on the world stage and protect it’s own interests while we in the US, are “battling” to protect what we think we already have.

i have been hearing these boycotts of Chinese goods for years now. how is that working out so far? i'd bet most of the people who are vocally advocating these boycotts have TV's and DVD players made in China in their homes.

get real people. it's never going to work.

you need to put your racist, backward mindset aside and realize that the US NEEDS China and Japan (its two biggest creditor, in that order) for survival. yes the country is currently in survival mode because without these two countries continual purchases of our government bonds, the country would go bankrupted.

it is a symbiotic relationship. the US needs to borrow money from Chinese citizens' savings to continue it's carefree spending and the Chinese need to export cheap goods to the US to get out of poverty.

yes manufacturing jobs are going to China, but you get cheap goods and more time before going default.

the poor people in China are living below their means so you can have a life style above your means. they have over 2 trillion dollars in reserve and they are our biggest creditor. the day they sell our debts or convert their reserve to the Euro is the day the dollar will collapse and the end of the U.S empire.

listen. i'm sorry you lost a leg or whatever in the Korean war but you need to let it go. China is our biggest friend now whether you like it or not.

@ Mac Forrester

Well said!

I'm traveling back in time, this era sucks!

Lets not forget some things being left out re: china....prior to ww2, Nationalist China, and the communist chinese were engaged in a civil war for control of the country. That fight was put on hold, til Japan was expelled from China ( WW 2 ). The Nationalists lost the fight and retreated to Taipei ( Taiwan ). The " Flying Tigers " as mentioned, were helping The Nationalist Chinese ( Chang Kai-shek ), During ww2 against the japanese.

Mark you make excellent points but China is NOT our friend! Friends don't rip you off continually and then become your loanshark. Friendly nations don't engage in an undeclared trade war. Friendly nations don't try to be some neo-colonial power in 3rd world nations to loot their resources. Friendly nations don't support psychotic belligerent nations (i.e. NK & Iran).

I understand that U.S. companies need Chinese markets but that doesn't make them friends, only customers.

Even our corporate weasels have to bend over and take it from China..

China need to be careful, we can survive without their products. We don't eat those exports.

They eat what we export. If they start something with us, food will quickly become a problem in China.

Control starts with the food, and we export a lot of it to China. China has become dependent on imported food. And they get it from the US.

You can have the largest army in the world, but that wont help if you can't feed them will it.

just rope a dope talk...they know if we attack them to liberate them of their wmd's...we'll have to order 100 times more garbage from them to supply our troops...they're just angling for more sucker biz.

The U.S. has $15 Trillion reasons to be careful or the Bank of China might foreclose on our I.O.U. !!

As for some of the typical anti-U.S. military garbage in some of the posts, there is no comparison in our defense spending levels because Chinese military service is compulsory with very little in the way of pay and benefits and their equipment is supplied by their government, which lowers their bottom line (not having to pay civilian defense firms and all).

As for WWII, the U.S. prevailed, period. We may have focused on Asia first, but our assistance kept Great Britain from being invaded and conquered and we dominated Germany once we fully engaged them (although victory was sealed by the folly of a two front war) !!

Hey, do you all think Kim Ok, Kim Jong Il's girl friend is hot?

Well we know Annie U. Ok got struck by a smooth criminal

A Nova science TV special program examined the issue of the advancing desert in China taking over what was fertile farmland in the past. The Communist gang in Beijing has screwed up royally. The domestic food supply is shrinking while the population is growing. AIDS and other STDs are running out of control. If China starts a hot war against its neighbors or against the USA, the supplies of food and oil which come to China by ship will be easily restricted and China will go hungry, cold and dark at the same time without any need to enter the territory of China. That's what a small military effort will do.

@ Joe M.-294004

Problem is the cornered animal syndrome. How desperate does China need to get before it starts going nuclear?

Imagine that you're trying to hold your country together while the foreign powers are restricting your access to food and other basic staples.

Such a strategy, while successful, needs to be handled carefully because a desperate foe with nothing left to lose is a far more dangerous one.

Seriously? makes a good point. Although I don't believe China would escalate things militarily, there is some historical precedence to consider.

The strategy used to deal with Japan prior to the second world war was one of the contributing factors to their attack on Pearl Harbor. The United States, along with Britain, tried to contain Japan by imposing a trade embargo after their invasion of Indochina. We all know what their reaction was.

The USA dictating to them. No country likes another country dictating what they can or can't do.

Same thing we were when Iran announced it could block the Guld of Hor-something. We will never learn. What was the point of even saying that crap about Asia? To the government - just STFU and do it, dont sit there and say it and piss people off.

FIRE...So they dictate to us...Good strategy...Don't think it will work out real well, but a good offense.....

Fire Support....It's the same as the Philippines and Vietnam not liking China dictating to them. China's Navy has been asserting themselves in the territorial waters off the coast of those 2 countries and they have asked the US for assistance in the form of a military pact/alliance. For those of you who have not spent any measurable amount of time in Asia lately both Vietnam and the Philippines feel threatened by China's actions and will be at war with them in the near future.

I just wanted to add that maybe most Americans apparently have forgotten that the American "CIA" trained and armed Osama bin Laden and the mujahideen to force the Russians out of Afhganistan, because the Russians wanted to control the flow of OPIUM out of that country, which at that time, Afghanistan produced about 60% of the worlds supply. They now produce 90%. If you don't believe me, educate yourself. If nothing else, simply Google it, and while you are at it, you may want to Google "Afghanistan and Lithium". That country also has a huge supply of LITHIUM. If you want to know what lithium is used for and its future projection demands, just Google that while you're at it. The sources are everywhere.

Trillion, don't disregard the other side of the coin. The Phillipines and Vietnam (as well as other smaller nations in SE Asia) have been relatively peaceful and allies with China (see SE Asian history, 1997 Asia financial crisis) until the recent years when the US began instigating conflicts between those smaller nations and China. The bottom line is the US has been setting fires all over China's backyard and enough is enough.

China is afraid of running out of oil products, food, and jobs for its citizens. And what do we do as a country - we subsidize each of these categories for them at our peril. China has no morality and we lost ours to our own corporations due to politicians putting corporate interests ahead of America's interests.

We now have an opportunity to influence the balance of trade with China by addressing and promoting our best interests regarding the exporting of US oil products, food, and jobs to China. We must elect politicians who will stand up for America and incentivise US corporations to do the same.

To do what you say we should do, we would first have to find Honest Politician's. And I'm sorry to say but there aint no such animal. And looking into the future it look's like more, Much more, of the same. We are Doomed. America has seen it's best day's. greedy politicians and business'es have brought us to our knee's. Big Greedy Business'es has done to this country what no enemy ever could.

What's China afraid of?

They're afraid we are going to catch on that they are hijcking whole industries through their predatory economic policies and finally do something about it...

Robbopaloobop: that is my take also. What do they need us for? They manufacture computers, tvs, locks, clothes, sheet rock, toys, bathroom fixtures, dishes, silverware, cars, tools, large machinery, lawn mowers, etc. etc. What does the U.S. manufacture? Not Much! What does China buy from the U.S. American made oil!!!!!! What is wrong with our thinking or lack of thinking? GREEEEEEEEED!

Actually, The US is still the number one manufacture in the world. That is a fact. We do not manufacture consumer products, as we once did, because China and other nations can manufacture these items much cheaper. Americans have no problem buying these things because they love the cheap prices. As for our national debt china holds about 10- 12% percent of it so we are hardly dependent on their money to support our national debt. Indeed, if it wasn't for the demise of the middle class, which would pay significant taxes and the rich which pay very little percentage wise, we wouldn't have the debt we currently have. Most of this debt. by the way, was run up by selling the middle class on the idea that wealth will trickle down to them if we give more to the rich. Does it appear that the middle class have thrived under this system?

The rich have a very simple plan. demonise the unions, Government, school teachers, proclaiming them to be incompetent, Social Security and Medicare for which Americans not only paid but enormously support. Endlessly suggest that business would hire if there were less regulation and uncertainty. The only uncertainty is how the rich can continue to get even richer without the middle class finding out how they have been duped. Never forget that the rich have one objective and that is to continue to get richer and they don't care where anything is manufactured as long as the make a certain amount of money on everything they sell. Wake up middle class Americans before it is too late.

Virginia Wolfe.

What's Indonesia afraid of??? For a long time Indonesia tried to be friendly to China. Then they realized that they would be target #1 because of Indonesia's wealth of natural resources that China needs. Indonesia recently signed a deal to buy submarines from South Korea. My Goodness! What could be on the mind of the Indonesian leaders?? Could it be the looming shadow of China and their greed for other countries' resources????

China will be going for the exact thing the Japanese did in the 1930's. The economic pro -prosperity sphere. History does repeat itself.

And all the countries in the area, know that history.

China has been doing that for thousands of years, growth, development, stimulating trade, peacekeeping, until eventually the country overextends over the course of 200-300 years, and a new cycle begins.

I am guessing this time around China is going to skip peacekeeping and let someone else take care of it, that way they can keep the status quo.

davx-3130876

I am guessing this time around China is going to skip peacekeeping and let someone else take care of it, that way they can keep the status quo.

Doubtful, China's right next to all of the ____stan countries

And those countries are full of uppity and angry hordes that will eventually target China the same way the US has become a target.

Take a look at how China is conducting themselves in the Middle East and Western Africa

They're doing their own rendition of the same stupid crap the US and Brits did in the early-mid 1900's. Supporting cruel despots and dictators simply because they support your country's interests.

Eventually China's actions in Congo, Darfur, and their support of Iran, N. Korea, etc etc etc. is going to explode in their faces.

It's pretty much an inevitability that a powerful country is tempted to support lunatic-leaders since:

1. The lunatic comes to you offering lots of precious resources for the low-low price of some basic weapons and military support to keep them in charge
2. The lunatic promises to secure your access to said resources without their interference
3. The lunatic wants to be as discreet about your presence there as you do.

If you're FDR and Churchill trying to make sure you've got oil to fight WWII and the Cold War, Hell Yeah you want to keep the Shah of Iran in power!

If you're China trying to keep up with 10% YoY GDP growth and maintaining an increasingly rickety export-economy, you're going to need lots of cheap raw materials and easy access to them without interruption...who cares what's happening in the Sudan, you aren't on a religious war, your "business partner" is.

Only in theory. The way the global markets operate if they chose to cripple their primary debtor they would also cripple themselves. It's an economic Catch 22. All they can do is grit their teeth and hold onto that debt.

They would cripple themselves if left holding all that debt

Yes, we could cripple them quite easily by simply defaulting on all the debt they hold. It's the Chinese Standoff.

When you owe the bank $1 million, the bank owns you. When you owe the bank $3 trillion, you own the bank.

Not to mention if it we turned into a trade embargo with China. They rely on 10% annual growth in GDP to keep their own employment numbers in check, and keep domestic unrest to a minimum. If they call on our debt and we default, and the situation escalates into a trade war, China would be hurt just as bad, if not worse, than the US.

Steve, back to econ 101 for you. You haven't a clue.

Don't forget that when you owe that much to the bank you basically "own" the bank.

If China gets too aggressive all Washington needs to do is turn on the printing presses and all those treasury bonds China hold magically get turned into toilet paper.

Think of it as a fiscal version of the nuclear concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).

Or in plainspeak...We both have each other by the short and curlies.

Actually Steveaae the holder of the largest percentage of U.S. government debt is the American public, not China.

Hello Chris, China is just hedging there bets and gaining access to U.S. markets by holding U.S. dollars. They are part of BRICS and are changing the dynamic of the petrol dollar which is the only strength the dollar has left. India is starting to exchange rupees for oil with Iran, Japan and China are planning a direct exchange of their currencies. As this continues with more countries curreny exchanges the dollar is going to go the way of the Dodo bird. You ought to be careful who you ridicule!

China is tied to us financially due to our debt; however, this gives them no additional power over us....its very similar to our current mortgage situation with companies and individuals deciding it is cheaper to default on debts.....we also shouldn't be naive to the fact that wars could be waged over a debt situation....

steveaae - Japan was going to cripple is economically in the 70's. Don't hold your breath about China. This article has an incinderary headline that China "Warns" us, hell they were saying something very delicate and it looked pretty diplomatic to me. China, I hope, realizes a war either economically or militarily would decimate them. I hope they're at LEAST as smart as the Russians and realize mutual nuclear destruction is not a benefit for anybody concerned.

a quarter of our debt is foreign and a quarter of that is from China. stop believing the crazies and look at the numbers people.

It would be economic suicide for China to call in the outstanding notes that it has of the US. In fact, it would be economic suicide for them if they even stopped purchasing our worthless debt at a rate any slower than they are right now.

For 3 simple reasons:

1. China buys America's low yield debt to suppress their currency
2. China buying America's debt in such large proportions props up the USD, which keeps China both as an affordable vendor for outsourced production, but also keeps the US flush with cash to keep buying from China
3. China keeping the USD propped up prevents the US from becoming an export-driven market and taking business away from China.

Also, let's not forget that China does not hold anywhere close to the majority of outstanding US debt. Most of America's debt is actually held by Americans, be they the Fed, Social Security Trust, or large insurers and mutual funds.

If China were to stop buying American debt, they would simply remove their ability to suppress their currency without printing money. If they had to start printing money to keep their currency cheap, they would throw themselves into hyper inflation and their unemployment rate would skyrocket.

Stevaee-Don't know much about economics, right? If I lend you money that I could have used on some other venture and you go bankrupt , who loses? You or me?

@Seriously:

Seriously? And how pray tell does the US become an export driven market while closing down 23K factories a day and throwing all those people off the company property? Huh? Have you seen "Motor City" lately? The Pittsburgh steel mills? Do you plan to just sprinkle some "Industry Pixie Dust" then?

Factories trashed, sprinkle the dust, factories like new. America - *** YEAH!

Seriously? No...Really?!#4.13: You know it as well as you know your shoe size. Damn!, you're good. Good to see you my friend. Regards

Rhynn-2705987

And how pray tell does the US become an export driven market while closing down 23K factories a day and throwing all those people off the company property?

Why do you think most companies have outsourced their direct labor?

The USD has been propped up incredibly high and several countries like China, India and Pakistan have all been deliberately suppressing their currency to attract outsourcing industries.

What happens when you're say, GE, Intel, HP or Apple, and the USD drops in value (I'll leave out the compounding effect if the RMB rises simultaneously)? Suddenly it costs more to outsource for the same amount of work as before because the dollar does not buy as much as it did before.

We already see how sensitive US exports are to the declining USD
Basically, as the USD drops in value, US-made products become cheaper on international markets, and therefore more attractive for buyers.

Now, if China can no longer suppress its currency against its year-over-year double-digit GDP growth, what happens then? China's RMB would start to reflect their true GDP just like the USD would reflect ours. If China's currency rises, it makes products made in China arbitrarily more expensive by the same virtue as noted above.

The compounding effect of China not suppressing their currency, and the USD dropping as a consequence will reverse the trend of American companies offshoring production over seas.

In fact, it could very well turn the US into a major insourcing market.

Why?

1. The US respects IP and patents
2. The US does not create special quotas that allows its domestic industries to unfairly compete with an importer (with exception to protecting against an importer that is deliberately dumping...example: Chinese steel and honey).
3. The US has not ever, nor will it ever deliberately seize the property of a private interest doing legal business (Brazil, China and Venezuela are all guilty of this).
4. The US will not secretly support espionage in order to aid a domestic producer over a foreign one (China and India are both guilty of this).
5. On a per capita basis, the American worker has significantly more education and our infrastructure is far superior and more reliable than most that's available in China and especially India.

Have you seen "Motor City" lately? The Pittsburgh steel mills? Do you plan to just sprinkle some "Industry Pixie Dust" then?

Again, if you understood why these industries left, perhaps you would have been more up in arms when Reagan and others supported the "Strong Dollar" approach to fiscal governance.

If you want to see American Industry and the middle class flourish again, start by raising the Fed Rate to match inflation.

@ Mac Forrester

Likewise, and thanks!

How is he anti-defense? The United States is more than capable of defending itself against anyone. It's defense budget is the size of the next 10-12 countries (including China) combined. He's asked for a review of the stategy to meet a possible evolving threat. That sounds like the smart thing to do.

Cohen, you are are a moron.

"Liberals" they way that "Conservatives" don't care either. Neither side seems willing to acknowledge the accomplishments of the other side, and even volifies their old positions when the other side adopts them. Insane. Both of them.

You couldn't be more right Dennis.

Wow, Tommy Waters, spoken like a true liberal - no substance, just name calling. You don't happen to have a spare idea you'd like to share with us, do you?

I have an idea. Government support of small businesses as well as corps/major businesses that PRODUCE GOODS IN THE USA. It's time to get the labor back in america and actually make this nation be a producer instead of being labeled as consumers... Once these corps/businesses get a good foot in the door of our economy (when american goods are more available) THEN raise taxes on IMPORTS. That way instead of giving jobs to other nation while at the same time buying @!$%# we don't need, we actually have the jobs here and produce what we need...HERE. @!$%#ing imagine that. An economy that actually can circulate its own @!$%#ing MONEY!

America does need to go back to making their own products. Look at some of the clothing we weasr. Actually most of it. We pay top dollar for clothingproduced in pakistan, India, china, taiwan mexico and so on. The laborers there get next to nothing and Americans pay through the nose to make the corporations rich. Ex: womens Lee Rider Jeans-material made in US and sent to mexico to be made into clothing. Other jeans I've purchase and paid $50+ for made in Mexico. HOw much you think it cost to make them there? Obama has to be about the least experience dpresident this country has ever had hope it ends up worth electing him, I did'nt vote for him but think in end alot will be sorry they did. Not that any of the repub candidates are gonna make one single thing better.

Hey screwed These people that elected this clown won't have any regrets because I bet most are on welfare or some other subsistence program... they are waiting for the "Obama Stash" to arrive

Coehen you are quite the idiot. And the only way the Gaseous Old Pharts can win in 2012 is to cheat which they have already put the wheels in action on that. When has an election required the things that states like SC and KS are asking for or when have they rejected school ID's.

I say if America is dumb enought to put the party that almost ruined the country back in power, then go for it. But when they have you standing in a soup line dont blame the liberals for your dilema.

Michael you do of course realize that the predecessor of the ID thing for voting was the poll tax back in the 1860's? That this was a Southern thing intended to prevent Blacks from voting? And, most importantly, that the party of the rich slaveowners controlling the South and fighting attempts to abolish slavery and enacting such laws as Poll Taxes and Jim Crow was the Democratic Party? That's right. The Republicans were the ones trying to end such atrocities.

Point being that there really aren't two parties. And all the posturing the Democrats traditionally do to increase dependence on government programs is effectively leading towards the creation of more slaves. Helpless without their government. Led by deceptive Pied Pipers who sold them a NY bridge and a fur coat in the dead of winter while claiming to represent the people, and remaining the same rich elitist caste that they were when they fought the Union. Dems, Tammany Hall, corruption, all one and the same. And the start of the decline of this country. They're no better than the Republicans you revile because they are all rich and all cut from the same cloth.

America is being duped. A vote for America and Americans is an Independent vote. Anything else and you're a cog in the gear.

he has no foreign policy experience but liberals don't care.

I can sum up the "foreign policy" of the right in a few words "bomb them, invade them or buy them out, open their markets to American companies and make defense contractors rich". It's what's been happening for years and years. If they don't voluntarily open their markets and country for exploitation, you either find a way to sanction them and or invade/bomb them. If they are your friends and they cooperate they can have all the weapons in the world, you'll even ship overnight express. If they don't, then they are the axis of evil and a threat and any attempt to get weapons for their own defense (after all, there's one country in the history of the world that was brazen enough to use 2 nuclear weapons on another country- at least one of them just to show off as it wasn't even necessary) is "a threat" and reason for war.

Some people on the right are so dense and pig headed, they insist on doing the same foolishness that is stirring up problems in the first place. If we didn't act, other countries wouldn't feel the need to react.

If you crazy righties had your way, you bomb damn near every non-english speaking country (that didn't let you rape them), then you'd bomb the parts of America that are too brown for your liking. Then you'd probably turn on each other and bomb yourself into extinction. Maybe that can happen backwards and solve the world's problems.

How about we get the 2 million plus troops (yep...2 million, please someone name one other country that has 2 million+ troops spread across the world) and hundreds of military bases out of all these countries, come home and focus on building the best country right here instead of this crazed quest for empire everywhere else?

Osama, Osama, Osama!!!

Actually skrewdworld, during world war II america made all of it's own parts for tanks, guns, ammo, ect instead of buying it from another country like... oh.. china. This was one of the major reasons we got out of the great deperession. This is also why the parts actually worked xD Now when we go to war we apparently add 2 trillion to our national debt. Just look at the economy before jobs were outsourced and the slow overall downhill slope of the U.S. economy afterwards.

Rhynn? Why fore do you wish to visit the yezzah mastah days? You don't have to go back that far. How about the late 40's? The Dixiecrats?

But in answer to your question, yes I do know about the party flippity floppity thing.

Whats your point?

Today the Republicans are a bunch of hateful, spiteful old greedy hell bent windbags.

Way to support the members of the military who have little to no say on where they go and what they are told to do. Jerry, you are an idiot of the worst kind - one that can read and write.

I am not sure if the U.S. and China are "friends" as we blog. But one thing is sure is that we are trading partners with a lot of disagreements in the international scenes and the U.S. as a country is a debtor of China.

Broaden the picture a bit: ...

China rising is not new. It's been years in the making. The world knows. What's important is (1) the U.S. and China are not in direct conflict, and (2) China is not doing evil anywhere in the world with whatever its got at this point and beyond.

I hope that neither (1) or (2) will happen.

Whatever the future holds, God bless America.

Vietnam's a rogue country? We normalized relations with them in the 90's and I believe they currently enjoy Most Favored Nation trading status with the US.

Nam sure as hell ain't how it used to be.

What about US backing Saudi Arabia, Iraq (Saddam during Iran-Iraq war), Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, Saleh of Yemen, Bahrain, Musharaf of Pakistan. Aren't they rogue countries.

And most of all what about the biggest rouge and apartheid nation of Israel.

If China calls in its debt, the US defaults, and China gets nothing and loses the chance to get anything back. The Chinese military, as far as it has come in the last 10 years is still 20 years behind the USA. China is a threat only because their economic engine helps to fuel ours. They have over a billion consumers, and they control them. All things are not as they seem.

The US would never get in a land war with China, but they would be hard pressed to expand beyond their borders without the US helping their opponent. The China Sea and Taiwan are the only chess pieces they can move. They won't move against Taiwan because even in victory, they would pay an enormous cost. They will likely move the China Sea issue because they need the oil and they have a shiny new aircraft carrier they want to display to the world. The question is will the USA intervene to stop them? This would be a carrier to carrier based battle with China owning the logistics chain.

What I am saying is that China will act militarily to own the China Sea, and the US will most likely let them. The rest of this is just static.

Just got back from a trip to Saigon, Danang, Hue, Cua Viet and Hanoi. The Vietnamese people loved me every place I went. I was stationed in Danang, Dong Ha and Cua Viet from 66 to 69. It has changed for the better and they are no more a rogue nation than Canada. The Vietnamese do not particularly LIKE China anyway, been fighting border disputes for 3,000 years. They resorted to Russia and China to rid themselves of Colonialists because we would not help them in the late 40's get France out of the region because France was our Ally in WW-II. The rest is history.

The Chinese military is already in Mexico.

President Kennedy drew a reasonably decisive line in the sand on this once back in the early 1960s. Even our inexperienced, incompetent current administration is not about to let that line get crossed.

And, they have been there since around 2002. Wake up America!

Chinese Military in Mexico? What the heck are you talking about.....? Do you have evidence to substantiate this? Can you please explain your comment?

As a matter of fact, there have been books, blogs, and newspaper articles written about it for years. If you want firsthand information, go to the source. If you want a simple suggestion, just Google it!

sandnomad

As a matter of fact, there have been books, blogs, and newspaper articles written about it for years. If you want firsthand information, go to the source. If you want a simple suggestion, just Google it!

Oh my! Then is must be true. I just did google it. I saw a lot of heresay and paranoid drivel.

No, you took the "Simple" suggestion, as do most Americans. You did not go to the source.

There is stated concern that China is building more aircraft carriers. They now have one which is not operational and plans are to add two more over the next five years. So at present, China has no operational carriers and the US has eleven ~ therefore China is viewed as a clear and present danger to the US. Apparently our defense contractors are already screaming about the DOD cutbacks to less than $500-billion.

You can have 50 Carrier Battle Groups if you want, but the REAL deterrent are the Fleet Ballistic Missle Submarines parked all over the bottom of the oceans waiting launch orders, even China has to know they're toast if we launch all of THOSE against their saber rattling ass. Surface ships to a submariner are known as targets. All a sub has to do is launch its missles and/or fire its torpedoes and get below the inversion layer and they're gone, just disappear in the ocean. THAT is what China and any other country had better be wary of, NOT how many carriers we have.

I had the very rare view of a trident test launch just before I was cross rated to a shore billet. And as you say its the main determent in our arsenal. I was standing on the deck looking out at the beautiful rolling waves when the water began to bubble like a boiling pot, the entire missile slowly crept out of the water it ignited and was gone in a split second. An amazing sight to behold the technology. Our SSBN and SSN subs are true stealth.

Amen to THAT jollyoldsoul. Thank You for Your Service.

@mt

Ya right, as a country, we Americans have nothing to trust China. They can send their kids over to the US and learn the academics and we do trade with each other. But how can I let go the fact that China pirates, hacks and steals our stuff in both the private and the public sectors for their "rapid growth"!? We owe them money big time, but they owe us the trust that you are talking about.

Wow, and Muslims are blood thirsty?

Muslims don't like buddhists or aethiests any more than they do christians or jews. China isn't any more safe from ultimate Jihad than anybody else, it just hasn't started yet.

I personally believe the Chinese have already sent a message to the radical Islamist's. Fear is a very strong motivator!

What are they going to do send them tainted baby formula?

I am not afraid of what China could do, because without eachother we are both nothing. We buy their products and employ their people. We will one day shift more back to a manufacturing country and China will be in our position. They might "spy" on us and it goes back and forth, but this has been happening for a long time. If we worked together and put a real end to almost all wars it could work. We need them to back us when it comes to Iran, because if they don't it could spill over and start one with them. Russia and say what they want, but they have fallen apart since the Cold war.

My company is currently building 9 new facilities in mainland China. 3 are in progress the rest are scheduled. They require parts for things assembled there be manufactured there.

...China... require parts for things assembled there be manufactured there.

And why is it that this country can't do the same? Oh I remember, we're too concerned with hurting our enemy's feelings.

Explain how China's economy is dependent of the U.S. economy. The make all the products, we make none! They have all the money, we have none!

sandy-2984954

Explain how China's economy is dependent of the U.S. economy.

there are 2 reasons

1. The US is China's top customer, and China's primary economic driver (i.e. the reason why they have 10% year-over-year GDP growth) is through exports to the US. If the US cannot buy from and or continue to outsource to China, that is a loss of a major customer and source of employment.
2. China keeps their currency low and the USD high by buying large sums of US T-Bills. The low rate on the T-Bills, thanks to the low Fed Rate, should ordinarily cause the USD to drop, but China buys so much of the debt at a premium, it creates a higher demand and raises the price, which raises the USD. By keeping the USD high, it makes China's goods affordable and keeps American government and businesses flush with cash through leveraging at such low rates; which keeps the US buying from China.

Think of it like the equivalent of financial inbreeding.

It's a terribly destructive practice, and there are a lot of sacrifices to keep this gravy-train rolling, be it the pulling from China's side, or the pushing from the US's side.

China sacrifices their middle class's spending power and most of their peoples' quality of life to ensure a massive source of cheap labor and no worries about pollution/safety standards.

The US is sacrificing its blue and white collar jobs and shedding entire industries which is a byproduct of an artificially high currency as businesses adapt to high domestic prices and low international prices.

Eventually there will either be a snap like a steel beam under too much tension, or there will be a rebound like a coiled spring breaking free from one of its secured points.

It's a global economy - someone else will simply fill the void. The fact is, the United States will never compete with China in the forseeable future when it comes to manufacturing low cost/high volume products. The labor rates are too far apart.

US manufacturing needs to focus more on higher cost/low volume manufacturing that focuses on innovation and customization. These types of products are harder (if not impossible) to duplicate elsewhere - specifially China.

You can't bring the manufacturing jobs back. The end products cost more in the retail market than the imported version and US consumers simply won't pay for a "Made in USA" label. US consumers are the ones who have the final say on where those manufacturing jobs are located. They have long since decided on China.

skup - you're right in regards to the low cost/high volume items. However, products that are in the introduction or growth stages of their life cycle can still be produced in the United States. At some point, these products will reach the maturity stage and be moved elsewhere for production.

Americans won't pay for the "made in US " label at their peril. Already we have the situation of consumers saving $300 on a household appliance by buying LG instead of American. So people get laid off in a manufacturing industry and you have to feed their kids, pay their medical and cover their housing becasue they can't. Tell me again how amart that purchasing decision was ? Just because you don't know their names, and haven't seen their faces and just because you can't prove that that single purchase caused that layoff you want to believe it's not related but it is. IF you think a nation of burger flippers is going to pay elevated defense costs to protect you from the rising Chinese threat you are crazy. You need a manufacturing base to do that. You need the Gubmint, the CEO's and the concumers to start supporting America and stop flooding cash to China as fast as they can.

IReadyou is right about needing a strong manufacturing base. It's critical. There are still lots of things being made in America - always will be. The only question is what.

It's a global economy and world is constantly changing. The United States was successful because it was always ahead of the curve. The only difference now is that the US has company.

As long as Americans with a HS diploma DEMANDING $50/hr for manufacturer pay, we will never see "Made in USA" a standard.... its fact people

MontanaSon

"We need to start disengaging from China. Bring our manufacturing base back to the US and friendly countries through tax incentives. Starve the beast."

Taxes and tax incentives are what got us into the economic mess we are in. More won't help because sooner or later someone will have to pay the bill.

A better approach is to refuse to buy goods made in China. Look at the labels before buying.

You won't be bringing anything back as the Chinese own the factory and the parts required for production. It is a start all-over game now!

Let's see... GM sold more cars in China than in the US last year, and Chinese car market is only in its' infancy. As matter of fact, the reason GM hadn't gone bankrupt way before the financial crisis was because for years, its China division making profit to sustain the lose making operations in the states. Same is true for multitude of companies and markets. stop buying China, and how long do you think all these US companies can continue to sell into the Chinese market? worse yet, how many companies do you think will remain US if they are forced to choose making profit in China's market or losing money in the US market?

I like the "starve the beast" concept. The only reason they can do the modernization is because of all the money the U.S.A and Western Europe pour into their factories. Take that away and they are back to being 18th century barbarians.

Joe, from Kalispell

Take that away and they are back to being 18th century barbarians.

Oh that's not nice. Maybe more akin to 19th century poppy-farmers

Unless US learns how to live within its borders and live within its budget this country is doomed.

Ron Paul for 2012!!!!

@ Josh11024072

You are almost quoting word-for-word what Neville Chamberlain was saying right up until 1938.

It would be nice to be isolationist, but the world is full of disgusting opportunists and sociopaths with little concern for human life and well-being.

China has imperialistic ambitions, they are eyeballing Taiwan and are in increasing competition with Japan.

You would be better served not to under-estimate them...fortunately our President and military are not.

@Josh 11024072: Even if "Ron Paul" became President, his proposed policies can never come close to squaring with our established system. Simply put; the dynamics of the system would squash such policy as a steam roller bursts and smooths dirt clods. I contend we do need to concentrate on the reestablishment of our middle class. We should begin this with a massive and overwhelming national infrastructure program. Investment is not "wild spending". I would bet if we would do this we would also gain ourselves several indigenous industries with adequate jobs for our middle class. The Chinese government may indeed fashion Itself a grand Chess Master. That could be good or stupid. Economically the US stands ready to take their King at will. Problems with stupidity though are always dangerous. President Obama knows that, hence the new policy.

@ Mac Forrester

Agreed! We should also eventually do something about the over-monopolization that exists in our industries as well...maybe also consider re-regulating the airlines.

Where should we start with infrastructure?

My personal take is that we need to start tearing down oil/coal power plants and start building Generation V nuclear reactors (IFR and LFT) that can both generate huge amounts of power without the the use of isotopes that can be weaponized, facilities that don't melt down, and best of all, digest their own nuclear materials down to far less radioactive ones with half-lives of less than 200 years. We could actually get income from receiving nuclear waste from other countries that we could burn down for both more nuclear fuel and energy.

Next we should start focusing on improving nationwide mass transportation to reduce reliance on the personal automobile, this will save lives, save fuel, reduce our dependency on everything from foreign oil to rare earth metals, etc.

Etc.

What are yours?

@Seriously? No...Really?!: Total agreement! I would add; there are amazing new "water and sewage" technologies which yield much greater quantities of usable water while wasting less than we presently use, and do so absent goddamn damns. Unbelievable technological advances in waste management which can actually make garbage healthy and profitable etc, etc. It's like dying of thirst while lying by a lake of pure, fresh water.

@ Mac Forrester

Oooooh! I'm intrigued! Can you show me a few links?

Water usage, sewage and waste disposal is what first brought Rome to greatness. These are serious core technologies.

What are the latest advances?

I've heard that we've been able to re-sequence the proteins in feces to make them edible again...really gross...but could be used for fodder...I've also heard about utilizing the gasses for energy and much of the bio-waste can be made into plastics and lubricants.

What stuff have I missed?

S N R: Haven't linked any of these but have some personal knowledge of all.

Atmospheric water generation, and rainwater and fog harvesting.

New desalination of seawater methods using amazing new polymers, distillation and reverse osmosis.

Flocculation of sewage using again, new polymers, ozone disinfection, even bacteria etc.

These are but a few. Amazing too, are the new infrastructure products available which are so efficient when optimally used, could reduce present water waste by 40 to 50 percent. Generally, most municipalities in this country loose about 45 percent of their water between source and user.

My knowledge of these is a result of business interface with developers and manufacturers. Some 71 percent of the Earths surface is covered with water, and water can only be destroyed by atom separation, if at all. Really no excuse for anyone lacking good water. Hope this helps you some. Fact I know it will. You are a person of great positive cognitive quality. You are also a delight to read and reason with. Best regards

@ Mac Forrester

Fascinating! I'll try to read up on what I can

I haven't really focused on this kind of tech, but I love technological and scientific innovation and discoveries...it's why I found out most of the details on new types of nuclear reactors!

Anyway, great chatting with you as always

Funny. Pick those businesses owned by peole living here in America, and often owned my American citizens, yet ignore Wal-Mart, the largest distributor of chinese goods - ever.

Why would you want to boycott someone running a small business in the US?

Yup. That'll teach those pesky Mexicans. But what about the Chinese?

Too much MSG

And pay double the price for everything.

Wake up JJ9. We hardly manufacture anything in this country. As Americans, how can we "Buy American"? We need the manufacturing base to return from China before we can manufacture anything.

Sandnomad-

Point is, we as consumers have the power to change this. next time you're in a store look at the made in Label....if it says made in China, put it back and find a different country. Yes, US barely produces anything anymore, however there are many other 3rd world conutry's that do.....and the process will cycle all over again.

You know that China holds about 20% of our debt? and China has the nuke?

We can get the manufacturing base back from China and elsewhere. All that is required is for American labor to work for the same wage and employment conditions that prevail offshore. Labor costs are what drove most jobs overseas and so long as it is more expensive to operate here than there, they will stay offshore. All we would have to sacrifice is the five day work week, minimum wage requirements, overtime, paid vacations, sick leave, and agree to hold employers harmless for job related injury, forfeit any legitimate legal claims arising from age, sex, and minority discrimination. Exempt employers from sharing in Social Security contributions for employees and eliminate any vestiges of retirement programs. That's virtually all that would be required to get "our" jobs back. Who will be the first to sign up for these conditions?

Americans have to start producing goods again before we can. Womens lee rider jeans material made in US sent to Mexico to be made then returned to US at substancial mark up. GO into a western wear store and look at the labels. You'd think western==American NOT you pay $38-98+ for jeans made in MExico. Go to any clothing store and see labels, china, taiwan, pakistan, mexico and so on. American businesses getting products overseas at slave labor wages and stickin' it to the US public with huge profit margin. Needs to stop!!!!

@Sally

China holds about 8% of US debt not 20%.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm

jimintexas I think you take it a little to the extreme side. Besides isn't it Texas that is one of the states filled with low paid illegal immigrants whose children will get in state tuition paid for by the rest of the country?

It sounds all nice..."Let's start to manufacture in America again." Sad reality is that people need to make a living to buy a house and raise a family in our high finance economy. Factory work is the hardest, and least paying. Competition constantly puts the wages of labor down. Only bankruptcy will return America to the factories. Then we will need to repay our debt to china before we can keep some of the product for ourselves.

If you want to defeat the Chinese, stop stopping at wal-mart and BUY AMERICAN!!!

Where might that be??? Received some tools for Christmas (Name Brand), opened them up and looked at them and said to myself, "Self you can this quality at Harbor Freight". They had the C------n name on them but the box had made in China on the back. Maybe it was just the box made in China. Anyway the tools were junk!

@jimintexas : Does this agreement we're making mean no more paying $1250 for one dental crown? No more $2200/mo. 800sq. ft. apartments? No more $5 cups of coffee? Because if my .25 cent per hour pay rate is still not going to stretch any farther than 10 gumballs a day out of the machine at Walmart, I'm going to continue to have amnesia about what my name is at the contract signings.

Let's not pretend that the people's unwillingness to work for competitive wages is the problem. It is the corporate refusal to settle for less than 500% markups on both goods and on profit from services that is the problem. It would be one thing if the prices these companies charge and the salaries they pay their workforce resulted in them barely breaking even both on the corporate P&L statement and the executive net worth sheets, but I know that you know that I know that you know that there could be nothing farther from the truth.

The money to revive this country is in the cash registers of the Lear Jet company, Bugatti, whomever makes mega yachts, Hollywood Park, and other providers to the rich who are reaping record profits and experiencing double digit net worth increases per year while claiming they can barely keep their doors open in the States and so are moving production offshore. Give me a break, haha

I
totally agree. Made in America needs resurgence. If someone was in our backyard
like we are in Chinas, we would be pissed off too.

I
totally agree. Made in America needs resurgence. If someone was in our backyard
like we are in Chinas, we would be pissed off too.

If you need a certain tool or something for the house or pretty much anything, there is no other choices or very few, except made in China. They got us by the b*lls. Even much of the pet food is made in China, and probably lots of our human food.

If you ask a business or factory owner what is hurting them most as far as budget... its not so much the employee pay, but the taxes and other fees put on them by the government. The US is very business Unfriendly. If they want to make more jobs and get more product made here, it needs to be eaiser to run a business.

Our standard of living costs money, but when it comes to spending we support an unfriendly foreign country rather than our own economy. We have to make stuff before we can sell it and somebody has to buy it or we won't be able to keep making it. We can't keep making those good American salaries and then keep purchasing Chineese junk or anyone else's for that matter. We need a better trade agreement or else none at all.

Sheee-uuure,... I'll stop going to Wal-Mart... Just as soon as we get rid of the unions in America who are but a criminal element demanding more and more money...

I will go where I wish with my money... When the union's wake up or go away entirely, then I'll listen... in the mean time, they can go to he||...

I like your posts Ro-1585270 & Richard in Florida-809880 It is the free trade act that needs to go.

@CoCowboy : Where do you think the unions got their rep and power? Organized crime guy! By the way? Have you ever heard of Joe Kennedy? Yeah. THAT Kennedy. Take a look at his background and then ask yourself how in the name of God that tool ever got appointed the head of the SEC and spawned a family that would remain stuck to the septic tanks around Capitol Hill for the next half century, including putting a guy in the White House and having another one in the Senate despite being a drunk and a murderer.

Unions are no excuse for shopping at Walmart. Half the clowns claiming the union pressure is forcing their prices up are where they are thanks to the same criminal element that gave the union its foothold. And THAT'S the hand holding the strings to still other criminal puppets in the Senate, House, and White House. Wake up will ya? You seriously see a difference between ma and pa stores getting squeezed by Walmart and companies/non-union workers getting squeezed out by unions? They're all mob tactics. Because that's what all MOBS do. Use mob tactics.

mercy you will not get from the Chinese! However it would be wise for the Chinese to remember that we are their largest market! We turn it off and bye bye China! back to the stone age they go! Unlike the Europeans, smart move on their part by the way, where Chinese imports are limited and controlled here in the US they can bring as much crap as they want!

Do you really think that they were concerned about the US, when we had that debt fiasco in Congress, NO they were concerned about their bottom line!....which is a lot of crap are sitting in storage because nobody can buy them! Hence their eagerness to help anybody that would eventually buy their products!

recon: They have 199 other countries to sell to? What does the U.S.have to sell? Nothing!

They have 199 other countries to sell to? What does the U.S.have to sell? Nothing!

Maybe we can sell them the unions.

Why make them your nemesis? Especially when you can't afford it?

People are starving and all you seem to want is a massive defense budget.

The fourteen percent of the Earth's landmass of China, India and Southeast Asia is home to one-half of the world's population. The productive Asian people, the natural resources and the markets constitute a geo-economic center of gravity.

Spartan, if maintaining access to the South China Sea and the sea lanes connecting it for U.S. commerce is important, then maritime protection is indicated.

If Americans have to good sense to prevent trillion-dollar, no-win, nineteenth century style land wars in the Middle East, then defense expenditures can be reduced while America;s more vital interests are protected.

Numerous Asian countries are going to be going through a major demographic shift in the coming generation.

China and India both have a severely lopsided preference towards boys rather than girls.

Compound this with China's 1-child policy and China's population is ready for a major bust in the next 30 years.

It is not the recipe for lasting influence and economic strength to have an aging generation greater than a young and capable one, and doubly-so a generation that has to send more than 20% of its men abroad to find a spouse.

While I will not under-estimate China's ambitions nor its growing military strength, they are on a road towards economic disaster. That makes them dangerous.

Discontent from within China will naturally push that Government to look outward for a distraction. Absolutely agree with your tracking here.

@ Mac Forrester

So in terms of distractions, which rout are you thinking?

Like the end of Pax Romana? Prosperity through conquest!

The Long March II? The Mao the marrier!

or

Gladiatorial games revisited? Today, we die for the glory of...Beijing?

you're right, our current President is amazing at showing leadership...especially abroad....bowing to Kings, can't negotiate a dime of deal, and is sinking this country faster and faster into the ground. But, what would we expect from Someone who had absolutley no leadership experience in Business, Politics, or anything for that matter.....guess we did it to ourselves eh?

jayman-1982875: I'm going with "All That Is" above you. Gonna sandwich you with reason. Your thinking is akin to laying the paper on the toilet floor then sliding your ass along it to clean yourself. Not logical and likely to end up with an even dirtier anus

Nice visual, but facts and or a logical argument relative to thread usually helps.

It is not that simple. US national debt is at 16.2 trillion. You don't know which $1 trillion is Chinese. If you have to void it, you will have to void everything. This also includes the bonds held in 401ks. You cannot economically wipe out Chinese debt without effectively wiping out American's, Japanese, Europeans etc.

China's debt is secure. Chinese are not fools to be buying trillion dollars if it was that easy for US to wipe it out.

own my own business. ever heard of a sharp pencil? it is all paper, but the chinese would have to start killing foreigners first

Iwert: They have all of our factories so we do not have all the goods, they do!

Amen...I say Bring it on! It's going to happen anyhow, let's do it now, it's almost time for dinner.

google walmartmovie Then decide if Walmart is helping YOUR community. If you're not making sure that your money stays in your community, you have NO idea where it's going. If you want to truly support your family's future, I'd think knowing where it ends up is VERY important. Is good to know your TShirt that says - FADED GLORY - with the Statue of Liberty holding her flame....wasn't made in Nicaragua. READ the labels, it usually says where the item was manufactured.

Usually, if it was made in the USA, it proudly says that on the FRONT label. If you DON'T see it on the label anywhere, it was probably made elsewhere.

The freakin label on that stuff you buy at Wal-Mart is the only thing Made in America! Oh, by the way the rich Do run the world and it's never been any damn differant and probably never will be differant. Once the "poor" take control they will be the rich. Just ask the Lenin worshipers, another good socialist just like the idiot in the White House now.

ignorance is bliss...and you are one happy person aint ya...

it is the rare item in walmarts isles, that ISN'T made in a 3rd world country or in China...

Please pull your head from your butt and do some research, instead of posting and speaking like a dimwitted clueless moron.