Canada has the most stable finical system in the world, and provides a national health care system that works, contrary to the misinformation that Americans are spoon feed ....

Canada is a great nation of extraordinary social values, and we shoud be proud to have such a neighbor on our northern border ....

I agree. To get there again, we need to elect more conservative leaders as Canada did several years ago.

Most Canadian 'conservatives' would be considered communists or worse by our local Republicans.

To get there again, we need to elect more conservative leaders as Canada did several years ago.

And I'm sure Rob knows that a Conservative Canadian is comparable to a liberal American Democrat.

for better medical care they come here.

Just the wealthy.

As the article reads, Canada and the Western European nations are:

• Pro-Union
• Provide national healthcare
• Have affordable post-secondary education

These nations also:

• View a skilled laborer (electricians, plumbers, etc.) as admirable
• Don't ridicule or downsize their educators

Where the hell does any of these fit into the "American Conservative" ideology?

"Looking for the American Dream? Move to Canada"

That's an awful thing to say even if it's true.

If Canada was South of the border, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Most Canadian 'conservatives' would be considered communists or worse by our local Republicans.

Communists are extreme liberals not extreme conservatives. Nazi's are extreme conservatives.

Radical< - > Reactionary = Left < - > Right = Communists/Socialists < - > Nazis/Xenophobes

Thanks MJ. Good definitions. Always wondered how the "right" figured Obama as a Socialist-Nazi. Seems Rush Lintballs needs your little diagram :-).

Rick Santorum = Xenophobe. We here in PA have an understanding how this dweeb thinks.

Skup - Canada can only exist as it does today because of the United States. They do not have to invest any money in research and development or their military. They live off of our coattails. If Canada were located between Russia and China it would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

How wrong you are. Canada would have been a viable country no matter where it was located. The only reason the US invests money in research and development and the military is to maintain its empire and keep the military-industrial complex going. Open you eyes, pal, there's not much to defend here in the good old US of A.

...And yet we continue voting for morons like Santorum, that is trying to invade Iran, as if we were the US from the late 1960's or 70's s. We are a different country, impoverished because of wars.

People need to read history to realize that waging war at every opportunity is the death of a nation....

Welcome to the new US: A third world country always at war with someone else.

What they don't mention is Canadas GST...I grew up by the border and tons of Canadians cross the border to shop for gas, clothes and groceries then pay the tax on it crossing the border rather than get slammed with the ungodly high GST they have to pay on goods over there

What could be more mobile than living out of you car.

If Canada were located between Russia and China it would have ceased to exist a long time ago.???? Now that is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

Our attempt at the Great Society in 1965; has backfired and produced a perpetual welfare class, to fund this attempt, Congress has emptied every single set-aside , from Social Security, to even the Federal and Military retirement funds, the drain in the last 45 years is now over 16 trillion dollars, and growing by the day; we have invented so many earmarked programs, that it is hard to keep track of them, we have turned our Public Schools in all the big city's into warehouses to keep Young people off the street; we are passing so many new laws to control everyone from birth to death, that Nazi Germany would have been envious; but the main reason we are slipping down the slope into a bottomless pit is ,CONGRESS, a business group that's main goal is making money and getting re-elected; and to hell with the citizens who keep putting them there .

brian-1077790

What they don't mention is Canadas GST...I grew up by the border and tons of Canadians cross the border to shop for gas, clothes and groceries then pay the tax on it crossing the border rather than get slammed with the ungodly high GST they have to pay on goods over there

Yep, I remember that myself - in the 1970s and 80s!

Svenolafson, that is nuts. If what you are saying was true, the Republicans would be on them in a minute.

MJ, I think your definitions work -- if I were to do a continuum, starting on the far left, I would do it like this:

Radical...Communist...Socialist...Liberal........Conservative...Ultraconservative...Nazi...Xenophobe...Reactionary

Anarchist would be left of left and right of right. Libertarian would be right of right and left of left. (Or maybe the other way around.) If you took the left side in one hand and the right side in the other hand, then bent them back to meet each other, that's where anarchist and libertarian would be.

Rob -- if you were to ask the average Canadian about those conservative leaders you are talking about -- part of the corportaist cabal -- they would likely tell you that those people did a tremendous amount of harm to their economy. Harm that still has not been entirely undone.

And saxon -- you need to look into the draining of funds a little more closely. It was not the Great Society. It was the Great Grab for public money on the part of the private sector. And things are not going to change until the corporatists get regulated and we get our money back.

Its the morons who only vote for one party or the other that I blame. Can't think straight, fire breathing, flaming fanbois (and girls). The kind of person who doesn't look for the best idea, only the best idea from people who already think the way they do. The results are predictable.

When the country makes it easier to collect a welfare check than to actually work, you will have a bunch of lazy bums who (even with a free high school education) will not strive to improve their lives......they could if they wanted too, but we can't hold their hand and walk them to school and work everyday.......can we......

Ahhhhh........ If you live on a border state and know many Doctors you would know that Many Canadians come here for medical care that is quick. Same with the UK I have many peers in the UK and procedures take months to schedule. Also in late 2007 when I saw this monetary fiasco coming down I slammed all my assets into CBC annuities. The conservatives in Canada have kept their markets stable and I have doubled my assets.

The American Dream is far from DEAD. The problem with our country is our attitude and our quick use of credit.

50 Years ago, credit was not something just used by he average American. In fact, most Americans purchased little if anything on credit. Credit cards did not exist and mortgage loans were done at a local bank by someone you knew. If you had a bad rep or did not have 10, 20 or even 30% down, you did not get a loan.

That sounds like a great plan, however 50 years ago most Americans never purchased a new car, owned 1 TV if you were lucky, had no thing known as a computer and purchased a home after years of saving.

Economic mobility and security can be achieved by watching what you spend and how you spend it. It makes no difference if you make $100,000 per year or $10,000 per year, if you live within your means, you can make it work, people do.

The Keep up with the Jones' attitude of our country is the problem. Rather than wait for anything we all (myself included sometimes) have to have the new Ipad today, despite having the old once which works (for what we really use it for) just as well. (Sorry Apple, I was trying to find something cool everyone wanted)...

The fact is, in other countries they do not simply go buy an Ipad because it is cool. They do not have four tv sets, they do not have leather furniture, they do not have a new car and certainly do not sell their house every three years.

We need to learn from our mistakes and correct the issues that caused the mistakes. As much as it was poor choices of the banks, government and corporations, poor choices of the American people were equally to blame and continue to be. Before we throw stones, perhaps it is time we look in the mirror.

jolly old soul - I just tried to make a doctor's appt with the primary care doc (US). Two weeks! 2 weeks for follow up on a CT scan I did before Christmas. Still having pain... this is where I decide to go to a walk in clinic or the hospital. Or look into concierge medicine.

And I will pay until I reach my 3200 dollar deductible for the year.

When the country makes it easier to collect a welfare check than to actually work...

Anyone with even the slightest shred of character will still choose to work, provided they are able.

Your comment is an insight into your own personality. In other words, you are projecting.

mj, you got it wrong.

The scale of political parties is

communist, socialist, democrat, center, republican, right wing fundamentalists, Nazis.

either extreme is difficult to live with, but Communist and Socialist is at the far end of the scale from Nazis.

This is not a sovereign nation in the same sense that Canada is a nation. That is, the United States is NOT a sovereign State, but is a UNION of 50 sovereign States. In other words, the "Federal" government is NOT, itself, a sovereign, like the Canadian government. It only has the few limited powers given up to it by the States in the Constitution meant to be used for THEIR common defense and general welfare -- i.e. of the States, not of individuals. The powers granted to the governing head were never meant to be used to judge the States (the masters) and lawlessly commit aggressions against them.

The States need to liberate themselves from under the unprecedented oppressive lawless hand of their servant and agent, the "Federal" government -- so that they may once again, as the smaller separate sovereign societies composing this UNION, govern themselves as each sees fit (being as conservative or liberal as each may choose) without their neighbors judging them and imposing their will upon them (above all, using the arm of the Federal government to lawlessly do so on their behalf) and compel them into governing their States contrary to the way in which each smaller free society has a RIGHT, under the Constitution, to choose for themselves.

So, the solution is not more interference by the Federal government so as to oppress the individual sovereign State governments further, but much less -- i.e. a return to CONSTITUTIONAL government at the Federal level where the Federal government is restricted to that for which they were instituted and kept within its proper bounds, which is to "...PRESERVE the State governments; NOT govern individuals" (in convention, June 27), and, above all, to once again be their AGENT and NOT to be the source of judgment, aggressions and interferences against them.

This is a very interesting subject, but it appears that it can be summed up very simply - Those that get a good education prosper far more than those that don't.

It's not all that unexpected that the United States would lag in the area of 'Relative Mobility' since it takes more than twice as much income gain in the U.S. to move from 'poor' to 'rich' as it would in other countries. In that sense, it's perhaps comparing apples and oranges, since a $50,000 gain in income in Europe would move them from 'poor' to 'rich', while the same gain in the U.S. would only move them from 'poor' to 'middle class'.

It's always better in the long run to have a bigger pie to divide wherein everybody gains than to divide a static pie more equally. That's why 'Absolute Mobility' is probably the better measure, and with this criteria, the U.S. is near the top.

All of those who think Canada lived off our coattails forget Canada CHOSE to remain part of the empire when we left. We even invaded Canada twice. They always had the backing of the British empire. They were at war with Nazi Germany for two years before we entered the war. But it is true that for the average American upward mobility has ceased to be. If you invent something at the right time you'll get rich otherwise you can't really work your way up anymore from working class to upper working class because the upper working class has pretty much ceased to be.

Many of the posts in response to this article reek of nationalism and are therefore not to viewed as objective.

Jollyoldsoul1, what you say may be true, but why is the life expectancy much higher in Canada than the US? How many Canadians, percentage-wise, cross the border for medical care? And how many Americans cross over border to buy cheaper medications in Canada?

JK, for you to say "that's an awful thing to say even if it's true," leaves me wondering if that was intended as sarcasm or a lament.

Its true, a Canadian conservative isn't the same as an American one. American conservatives are extremists on any political continuum, while Canadian conservatives are moderates. Socialist isn't a pejorative in Canada.

One of the great strength in Canada is also that regulation has survived, whereas in America, it is continually under attack by powerful corporations that draft the legislation repealing it. This lead to the downfall of the economy in America and globally, while the Canadian banking system remained strong. Look at the current efforts to abstruct the appointment of Richard Cordray, whose agency can only serve to protect Americans and stabilize the financial sector. In Canada, the government serves the people (more) whereas in America the government often serves wealthy corporations to the exlusion of individuals (except where something trickles down).

Jolly old soul,

if our health system is so great, wy does it take 6 weeks to see my gastroenterologist, even with a medical condition, and I still have to pay an additional $100, even with insurance?

Europe? Really?

Aren't they about to implode?

I remember in the 80's when I lived in the UK. Their social class system did more to keep people down than anything else. "Working class" "Upper class" were highly differentiated. I doubt seriously that anyone from a "working class" family would ever be accepted by the "upper class" regardless of how much money they made.

It just isn't cricket!

if our health system is so great, wy does it take 6 weeks to see my gastroenterologist, even with a medical condition, and I still have to pay an additional $100, even with insurance?

I have no experience with that. I had a physical last year at 9 am on whatever day it was, my Dr. thought he found something, sent me directly to an EET Dr. at 11 am who wanted an MRI done, which was done at 2 pm with results at my Dr. the next day.

My $12 co-pay covered everything.

Maybe you need to find better insurance. Or go to Canada where the wait for an MRI can be 7 months or more, but you would save that co-pay.

Its true, a Canadian conservative isn't the same as an American one. American conservatives are extremists on any political continuum, while Canadian conservatives are moderates. Socialist isn't a pejorative in Canada.

Think there might be just a touch of hyperbole here?

I feel the same way about liberals. Just can't wrap my head around the things they believe in.

As for Canada's health care system.....

It is not as healthy as they would have us believe.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/09/international/americas/09cnd-canada.html

In time it's constitutionality is likely to be questioned and found lacking. Apparently not all Canadians are happy with it, in fact a good number of them aren't.

The case was brought to the Supreme Court by a Montreal family doctor, Jacques Chaoulli, who argued his own case through the courts, and by a chemical salesman, George Zeliotis, who was forced to wait a year for a hip replacement while being prohibited from paying privately for surgery.

Any system that PROHIBITS an individual from seeking and paying for PRIVATE healthcare is inhumane!

Those that get a good education prosper far more than those that don't.

Add good health care and dental care to that list. The affluent are stacking the deck so only their siblings have the right tools to realize the dream. Toothless unhealthy uneducated people do not move up the ladder. It's all a conspiracy by the right wing supremacists and their fascist corporate puppet masters.

Apparently not all Canadians are happy with it, in fact a good number of them aren't.

Right wing Propaganda

Jo, what you advocate was tried throughout our history before 1860 and it failed miserably. The Articles of Confederation left a weak and broke federal government that could not do anything. Not even provide for national defense. We fought a civil war over strong States doing what they wanted and it caused many crises before the 1860. Want a modern day example of of Sovereign States loosely joined. Look at the European Union. You want that? The founding fathers got some things right and a lot wrong. They had no concept of our modern life. Just like we have no concept of how life will be 240 years from now. They didn't even have railroads back then because the train hadn't been invented. How many State governments are in worse shape than the feds? Many. State governments can be tyrannical as they were in the south. And can tax the hell out of you. Example Illinois, California, New York among others. If we did what you want limit the federal government every state would have to pass massive tax increases to replace the federal government dollars they receive. How would national corporations exist. Imagine the cost to say Walmart if they had to deal with fifty different laws for everything.

Add good health care and dental care to that list. The affluent are stacking the deck so only their siblings have the right tools to realize the dream. Toothless unhealthy uneducated people do not move up the ladder. It's all a conspiracy by the right wing supremacists and their fascist corporate puppet masters.

I haven't seen this much hyperbole since Scotty got caught in the hyperbolic chamber on the USS Enterprise. LOL

Did everyone else miss the error in this headline???? Try moving to Canada or Europe for "upward mobility." It is very difficult for an American to get a job in ANY foreign country unless you have highly specialized skills that their own citizens can't provide, yet we welcome all of these foreigners to come here under our lax work visas.

"Looking for the American Dream? Move to Canada"

Here's why that is very misleading (No surprise with NY Times);

The Per-Capita income of Canada is $40,457 (PPP), but their total tax rate is about 49%, so their After-Tax income is only $20,633.

The Per-Capita income of the United States is $48,147 (PPP), but our total tax rate is only 36%, so our After-Tax income is $30,814, which is an extra $10,181 per person (49%) for an American.

While the income of a typical Canadian is more evenly distributed between 'rich' and 'poor', they still have far less disposable income to enjoy.

Our 'poor' in the United States would probably be considered 'middle class' in Canada.

PS - It's very cold up there.

Devil's Son - Well put.

Look at the liberal states and see how they are doing. Economic refugees leave California daily.

Illinois is probably going to be the first to collapse.

New York is losing their millionaires because they want to tax them to death. So they move here to Florida where we welcome them and the jobs they create.

When the country makes it easier to collect a welfare check than to actually work, you will have a bunch of lazy bums who (even with a free high school education) will not strive to improve their lives......they could if they wanted too, but we can't hold their hand and walk them to school and work everyday.......can we......

I thought Gingrich and Clinton "fixed" welfare? I guess you can't let a story get lost with facts. When are we going to stop blaming the person collecting $300 a week in support and start blaming the billions that go out the back door for corporate welfare?

When are we going to stop blaming the person collecting $300 a week in support and start blaming the billions that go out the back door for corporate welfare?

Who enables the "corporate welfare" anyway?

Politicians.

So if your representative voted to support it, work for their defeat next election. But I know you. Even if your representative did vote to support "corporate welfare" you would still support him/her if they are a Democrat.

How do you think Ted Kennedy stayed in office so long. He was one of the biggest supporters of "Corporate Welfare" ever. But he was a Democrat, so it's ok.

willow -

mj, you got it wrong.

The scale of political parties is

communist, socialist, democrat, center, republican, right wing fundamentalists, Nazis.

This is incorrect. It is a common misconception that the Nazis were far right radicals. They were in fact more socialist than anything. They had a large, powerful, all-controlling government. They united all workers into one labor union. They had a soviet-style planned economy. Another oft overlooked fact is how much class warfare propaganda was used to make German citizens jealous of the generally well-off Jews during the great depression. A common enemy is the greatest uniter of people and the rich Jews were the perfect scapegoat for the Nazi party.

As an aside, Canada isn't as liberal is many people think. Thier corporate tax rate is ~15%, much less than that of the U.S. Their highest income tax rate is 29% above $130k. The U.S. actually taxes higher earners at 35%. There are two higher tax brackets for higher earners in the U.S.; Canada doesn't have any. Granted, I don't know about the extent of tax breaks and loopholes in Canada as compared to the vast amount written into the U.S. tax code. But just looking at the overall rates, the U.S. does indeed have higher taxes on the rich and corporations than Canada does.

Canada also has had a conservative government in place for two terms as Harper was just reelected last year. Their unemployment rate hovers around 7%. I would love to see those numbers in the states.

Pyrrhic Victory - you are correct, Communism and Fascism are more similar than not. Liberals like to list Communism and Fascism as being right wing, but doing so does not make it so.

They are left wing ideologies and have more in common with liberal (socialist) thought than with Conservative (individual rights/RESPONSIBILITIES).

They are left wing ideologies and have more in common with liberal (socialist) thought than with Conservative (individual rights/RESPONSIBILITIES).

Not really, NAZIs were fascist and thrived under a dictatorship, something very much a right wing ideology.

Commonsense- your failed attempt at faking a knowledge of psychiatry is laughable......but expected .......

I totally agree with the article. I moved to France at the beginning of 2011 and my only complaint has been how to spend 7 weeks of vacation time that I am obligated to take. Yes I pay higher taxes, but I also get more for my taxes. I also make a lot more than my American counterparts in the U.S. do.

Roy- what your not understanding is their taxes are higher because they have free education and free healthcare. That money comes from someplace. If you took what your family pays yearly in college education and healthcare including meds, dentist ect. you will see that in Canada you are actually ahead.

insight iowa "Roy- If you took what your family pays yearly in college education and healthcare including meds, dentist ect. you will see that in Canada you are actually ahead."

So you're saying that the typical American family of four spends more than $40,700 per year on college education and healthcare?

I doubt it.

PS - About 85% of Americans get insurance provided by their employer, and roughly half can get free or subsidized college educations.

Not really, NAZIs were fascist and thrived under a dictatorship, something very much a right wing ideology.

Incorrect. NAZIS are Socialists, stressing the collective over the individual. Something liberals do every day.

There were no individual rights under Communism or Fascism. Individual rights and responsibilities over the collective are the mainstay of Conservatism.

Equating Fascism/NAZIS with Conservatives is incorrect. The US is a center right country and so far is nothing like the USSR or Nazi Germany. Although, the latest defense bill has me wondering.....

Really?-1739510....."Or go to Canada where the wait for an MRI can be 7 months or more, but you would save that co-pay...."

Not true... I had Hodgikin's lymphoma discoverd during a routine x-ray test. I went from the doctor calling and telling me that he had to see me "right way", to my biopsies, my three MRI's, CAT scans and the enrollment into a radiation therapy at our Sunnybrook hospital in less than two weeks. And took about 37 sessions of rad to get over it... No cost to me.

What is true in Canada that if you have non-life threatening routine checks it may take few weeks to get to your tests. So if you are in a hurry and you can afford it, you go to the US.

All in all, our health care system is pretty good and it's not limited to "single payer" lake most of you (in the US) may think. It does not cover everything.. Just the basic coverage. We have insurance companies that will sell additional coverage just the same as the US. Most companies offer these as benefits to the xompensation package....

Really? -

Who enables the "corporate welfare" anyway?

Politicians.

Exactly. Corruption in DC is the problem. The richest "corporation" in the world is the U.S. government, and everyone wants some of that public money. What we get is some companies being favored over others. Some regulations and tax breaks are written to support some businesses while being a detriment to others. All because of some corrupt politician throwing public money around. This is not a true free market.

I've always wondered why OWS never really focused their protests on DC. They seem to be intent on protesting a symptom rather than the source of the problem. Don't hate the player, hate the (rigged) game!

I am not sure we are comparing apples with apples here, but I will give this example.

Without revealing the town, I lived in a primarily town that once was very upper middle class that now is nothing but minority poverty. What happened was a union plant that paid extremely well during the 50s and 60s folded when union demands became too high. Sorry, but this has happened across the US in big numbers. I have lived in two town hit hard by the same events.

The closing of that plant, forced out skilled workers to relocate elsewhere lowering the price of real estate. Meanwhile the city began getting flooded with minorities moving there to collect better welfare benefits than they were getting in the south. The public school system began to deteriorate quickly when revenues dried up and just keeping city services going was difficult. So basically we had a mini Detroit.

I wanted to help. So I started to teach reading to a minority man around 35. He had 11 children. No driver's license and no job. He was a prior drug user and his health was awful. He was a really nice guy with a mom that was trying to help out. The problem is he was dependent on the government in order to breath. So were his kids and many girlfriends.

So how does this person have any sort of mobility? He lived in an all black town that required all the residents to hire a taxi each day to bring the into town to get groceries. They couldn't afford cars, but paying for a taxi was so expensive.

His kids lived in the projects in a big city. They were always sick and needing medical care. Going to school was an interruption in life, not a focus.

I am a big believer that the educational system here in the US is so bad for so many that the unskilled will increase with fewer skilled workers until we reform education and get a handle on money being spent and if the money is being used properly.

Rick Santorum is right that family matters a lot. The breakdown of our family values, families not even eating together today, is toxic. The mentors are gone. Single families often do start at the bottom and only in rare cases do they have upward mobility.

I would argue also that it is immoral to just give out benefits expecting nothing in return. So don't just give a person a fish to eat, but teach them out to fish for themselves.

I have lived all over this country and I swear those highly dependent on the government aid rarely get off it. They simply do not the skills to get out of the hole and they long ago quit trying.

My black friend wanting to learn to read never did so. The reason being is lack of personal motivation and belief that it would really make a difference in this life. Additionally his family burdens were incredibly depressing and time consuming. He honestly could not read or write. Imagine that for yourself.

If I couldn't help him, and I wanted to including financially helping him out, how do we help the millions now stuck in that hole?

theboys - My guess would be East St. Louis IL.

What was once a thriving factory town is now a dung heap of government welfare and crack cocaine.

We don't help people like you described. They are kept on the public teat forever. Generations of some families have known nothing but government handouts. It's the only thing keeping them out of prison really.

As such, they are modern day slaves. They are constantly reminded about where the largess comes from and any attempt to reform the system is met with liberals gnashing their teeth with cries that the "Republicans want to take the food from your babies mouth!" After all, the majority of their voting block is on welfare.

Since 1952 the liberals have scared the elderly by telling them that the "Republicans want to take your Social Security" away. LOL

Really? - you should do some more research. The Nazi's weren't socialists. Their party name was a misnomer. Hitler and the Nazi's hated communists. Many German communists, and Soviet POW's, died in German concentration camps. That being said, Facism is generally a mixture of both left and right wing ideology but generally considered to be more right wing than left.

Hitler and the Nazi's hated communists.

Only on racial grounds.

You really need to do some research. If they called themselves National Socialists, who am I to argue with them?

Take it up with them.

Pyrrhic Victory "Who enables the "corporate welfare" anyway?"

Can someone explain what 'Corporate Welfare' is?

I can understand it in the case of something like 'SOLYNDRA', but how do most people define it?

Skup, why can Canada 'live off of our coattail's', but Americans can not live off of the same U.S. 'coattail's?

Devil's Son, what are you comparing the Articles of Confederation to the new constitution for? The new constitution corrected that defect (defense). Furthermore, the civil war (correction, lawless invasion of the southern states so as to unconstitutionally compel them back into the union) had nothing to do with the States having too much liberty any more than any other State anywhere else in the world having sovereign liberty.

The whole works of the convention makes plain that the Federal government was instituted by the States to be their AGENT. You talk as if the Federal government somehow created the States, has whole omnipotent discretionary power over them and the States are meant to SERVE the Federal government and the larger society, as if the States are a collection of communist eastern-bloc states.

And, as for the condition of the states, the Fed is in worse shape than any State! In fact, the Fed is dragging the states down the tubes with it -- spending money like a drunken sailor, squandering all the wealth of the States and sinking them all into perpetual debt. No, the Fed is NOT good -- it is dangerous and DESTRUCTIVE to the States. Does Europe do that to its members? -- with 10's of trillions in debt that they cannot possibly, in multiple lifetimes, ever hope to pay off?

Just because few states have mismanaged their own affairs does not justify the fed invading that state and compelling it to its will. Any mess, being isolated to a single state, needs to remain that way and not be deliberately spread among all the states, which just harms all of them instead of just the responsible few.

When Massachusetts joined the union, it was a real mess, with corruption throughout. Did the new government invade it because it (being too democratic) was destroying itself? Perhaps (using your reasoning) the Fed should invade any state throughout the world that is mismanaging its affairs, because such can somehow be shown to adversely affect one or more of our States or the union as a whole.

theboys -

So I started to teach reading to a minority man around 35. He had 11 children. No driver's license and no job. He was a prior drug user and his health was awful. He was a really nice guy with a mom that was trying to help out. The problem is he was dependent on the government in order to breath. So were his kids and many girlfriends.

A sure road to poverty is having many kids with many partners or being a 15-22 year old single parent.

Watching -

The Nazi economic policies were largely leftist in nature. The government controlled many businesses, and dictated their outputs and quotas. The workers all were forced into a single union controlled by the government, the German Labour Front (DAF). They used class warfare to turn the German "master race" against the rich Jews during the Great Depression.

DON'T FORGET....

AMERICA RANKS IN THE UPPER 30's AS THE COUNTRY THAT ALLOWS THE MOST FREEDOM.

AMERICANS NO LONGER ENJOY THE PAST FREEDOMS OUR FORE FATHERS WANTED FOR US.

The police have been on a head hunting campaign arresting regular folks who have been devistated by this recession for the inability to pay their high ass fees!!!!!

We are gathering the troops though and plan to protest the city and DEMOCRATS for how they are back stabbing financially unable individuals in this city.
The greed of the law makers have created frivolous laws in order to deepen the pockets of certain individuals.

If you are not in the middle class any longer and have paid for your vehicle twice because of interest you should be able to drive your vehicle.

here is a list of fees you pay pertaining to your vehicle in NC.

Forced insurance policies
Gas Tax
Interest on vehicle
Inspection
Registration
Maintenance
License fees

Come on man they need to stopp chargeing

The Per-Capita income of Canada is $40,457 (PPP), but their total tax rate is about 49%, so their After-Tax income is only $20,633.

The Per-Capita income of the United States is $48,147 (PPP), but our total tax rate is only 36%, so our After-Tax income is $30,814, which is an extra $10,181 per person (49%) for an American.

While the income of a typical Canadian is more evenly distributed between 'rich' and 'poor', they still have far less disposable income to enjoy.

15% of your entire income currently goes to so-called "healthcare." That's 15% of $48,147 or $7,222,05 . So take that out of $10,181. You are left with $2,958.95. Now out of that, try paying for your kids' college education.

In addition, their pension schemes are not going bankrupt as our social security is, so you can expect to pay more or take home less in the US.

The tax rate on $40.457 isn't 49% - it's actually around 15% on your first $40,000. That's about $6,064. The tax schedule on the Revenue Canada website.

In Canada we are probably more fiscally conservative but socially liberal than in the US.

The issues with the US stem from multiple, unending wars and a overweight political system that is allowed to do iinsider trading.

Just don't think our healthcare is great, there are many systems around the world that are better and cheaper than ours.

Byron Raum "15% of your entire income currently goes to so-called "healthcare." That's 15% of $48,147 or $7,222,05 ."

As I mentioned in my Post #1.51, about 85% of Americans get health insurance provided through their employers (tax free).

Watching-2901750 "The tax rate on $40.457 isn't 49% - it's actually around 15% on your first $40,000. That's about $6,064. The tax schedule on the Revenue Canada website."

I said TOTAL tax rate, which is hidden in a variety of taxes in addition to income taxes (VAT, sales, etc.) in Canada. Here is a link that shows the Total Tax Rate for Canada and the USA.

I do have to correct my figures, however, because I apparently mistook Canada for Sweden. Canada's Total Tax Rate is only about 34%, so my comparable figures for Canada are;

After Tax Income for Canada = $26,702.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Canada

It is true that Nazis were almost indistiguisable from socialists.

What I cant believe is that noone identified the true right end of the scale. Radical THEOCRACY.

"

brian-1077790

What they don't mention is Canadas GST...I grew up by the border and tons of Canadians cross the border to shop for gas, clothes and groceries then pay the tax on it crossing the border rather than get slammed with the ungodly high GST they have to pay on goods over there

Yep, I remember that myself - in the 1970s and 80s"

THey still come over in droves!! but in BC it is the harmonized tax these days. Seriously, I want a canadian free shopping day 1x a month, it's my turn to be able to go to costco!! (Bellingham, WA here)

Yes, the Nazis claimed to be socialist. However, they are truly fascists. Fascism and Socialism are different and quite often opposed. It is also difficult to pinpoint where, exactly, fascism and the Nazis would be on a left-right scale because, as a previous poster pointed out, they took some from both. On one hand, they wanted the State to control everything (far left). On the other, they found social equality undesirable (far right). The main reason why most scholars put them on the right is because the whole Nazi movement centered around the extermination of what they saw as an "unclean" group of people, and the "purification" of the German race.

Generally, the left desires absolute social equality, while the right sees this as unattainable or absolutely undesirable. Robert Paxton, a professor emeritus at Columbia University, has stated that, "Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."

You are right Roy Wilson

Middle class America is rich in Europe or Canada. There is nothing close to American dream, while Europeans pay a lot of money in taxes almost 50 % of their income to enjoy free education and health care as a consecuence most middle class can't afford to buy a house or have two cars at home, most people rent building aparments and have an small car per household . So you have two choices , if you want a big government , high taxes, live in a rented apartment , have a tiny car , have free education and free heathcare , be a government dependant take Obamaway , the socialist way, if you want to own a house, have more than one car, lower taxes, pay college tuition , pay for your heath insurance do not vote for Obama. Europe is in a big trouble trying to fix their economies cutting social programs , start charging tuition , reducing unemployment benefits to face the consequences of their socilaist policies, the same that Obama want for US. We can't afford to follow the same path to socialism, only in three years Obama increase our debt in 3 trillions of dollars plus all the money that this governmentis printing dollars 24/7 lowering the price of the dollar. 15 trillions in debt for our future generations, enough is enough. 22% unemployment in Spain or free college.

Trevor-1973 "In Canada we are probably more fiscally conservative but socially liberal than in the US."

True. Canada had a serious problem with their national debt in the recent past, and they initiated very austere measures to get it under control - good for them.

Unfortunately, we in the USA just keep "kicking the can down the road" and it's much worse than it was in Canada.

As I mentioned in my Post #1.51, about 85% of Americans get health insurance provided through their employers (tax free).

Also, Heath savings accounts alow prescriotion and over the counter drug puchase tax free, and if you spend more than the threshold you can deduct medical expenses that were out of pocket.

Unfortunately, we in the USA just keep "kicking the can down the road" and it's much worse than it was in Canada.

The vast majority of our debt comes from 3 sources,

Defense, Medicare, and Social Security - which one are you going to eliminate and how do you plan to deal with the millions of people who will be affected by it?

Knight,

Since Obama took office the federal government has grown 20%, is anyone recieving 20% more services from the federal government?

Sort of redvirginia, but many do not really own their cars or homes in the U.S. Also European apartment projects do not have the problems that American projects have, and the European mass transit systems make up for no car.

Knight, didn't that 20% disappear into 'middle-eastern politics'?

Really? -

The Nazis did in fact cobble ideas from the right and the left, to create their mechanism for state dominance, but purged the left supporting elements in the Night of the Long Knives. Check out the class backgrounds of the members of the Brown Shirts and Black Shirts. But in the end, at the heart of Nazism was a racial purity agenda (as opposed to the more Nationalist goals of the Fascist Party in Italy, which the Nazis also borrowed from, without fully subscribing to) which defined the regime and its historical course. Nationalism and Socialism were just passing mechanisms to achieve that overarching goal, as disposable as the population.

Adding a few trillion dollar wars into the budget is certain to add some, you still didn't answer the question.

knightofdespair "The vast majority of our debt comes from 3 sources,Defense, Medicare, and Social Security - which one are you going to eliminate and how do you plan to deal with the millions of people who will be affected by it?"

Defense has always been an expenditure without offsetting revenues, so we obviously can't eliminate it, but here's some interesting information;

Total Defense Spending for 1991 - 2000 (in 2010 $) = $4.684 Trillion.

Total Defense Spending for 2001 - 2010 (in 2010 $) = $4.998 Trillion (including wars). That's an average annual extra cost of only $33 Billion during the war years under Bush/Obama.

As for Medicare and Social Security, they are funded by payroll taxes on those who benefit, so it would not be fair to those who contributed not to provide the promised benefits. We do, however, need to balance future revenues against future costs, which will require an increase in payroll taxes (not the recent cut).

One of the biggest causes of the 'Debt' is the Medicaid program, where the government provides free health care for many people. We need to raise taxes to properly fund this program, as well as make some structural changes (ie; Require a co-pay, government run health clinics, etc.). For example, according to Obama's budget projections for the 10 years from 2012 - 2021, we will have Deficits of $7.79 Trillion (including Obamacare expenditures) on the Medicaid/Medicare programs alone - which is actually about $584 Billion greater than the TOTAL Federal Deficits of $7.2 Trillion. In other words, without the Deficits from Medicaid/Medicare, we would actually have a Budget SURPLUS.

Economists know we need tax increases, but everyone say "Don't raise MY taxes".

Economists know we need tax increases, but everyone say "Don't raise MY taxes".

There is a group of people who have enjoyed a 300% income gain in the last 30 years where most families are struggling to stay flat or even seeing declines. 66% of America says to tax where the money is, which makes sense, why tax the group who has no money, even if it is larger?

knightofdespair "why tax the group who has no money, even if it is larger?"

It's always easy for people to say "Tax someone else, not me" isn't it?

I thinks taxes should be a 'shared sacrifice'. Otherwise, people could care less how much money the government spends and what they spend it on and how much debt we have.

I'm OK with the top 10% of income earners paying over 70% of total personal income taxes paid. What do you propose, and why?

I'm OK with the top 10% of income earners paying over 70% of total personal income taxes paid. What do you propose, and why?

Simple, more people earning above the minimum amount to live is more people who can afford to be taxed, when 400 Americans have as much wealth as 150 million of their fellow people that is just broken beyond belief, and when those 400 people hoard that money and don't use it to create jobs or any kind of national benefit then it is only natural that our economy will stagnate. The economy and the country does the best when the most people are earning a fair wage and spending a good amount of that in their local community.

As far as specifics, that is going to be a 2-3 page list to get things working, we need more balance in the economy and no single action is going to restore that.

We need to make it so the work the bottom 99% of us are doing is worth the time and effort we put into it. No hardworking American should be losing their home or going hungry because their CEO wanted a bonus, and money creation and distribution over the last century has brought our once vibrant economy to its knees. Wall street is disconnected from main street because it's assets don't really exist, they have created and fostered a giant wall of paper productivity that sucks away real work and contributes nothing to our people.

YES "kNIGHTOFDESPAIR", but American culture needs a total rethink. --- Our basic attitudes are wrong!

THE “GREAT AMERICAN NIGHTMARE” ---- 9/28/2011
The Economic disaster that is now hitting the US and most of the World is a necessary step for mankind's Noetic-evolution. --- Why? --- I just read, at newswine, that 93% of Americans still believe in “The Great American Dream”. If you are one of those believers you must first be convinced by a painful “US Economical Cataclysm” (and great VIOLENCE) that it cannot be realized, because it is an “extreme case” of a duality and must turn into “The Great American Nightmare” instead . However, if you are in the other 7% bracket you are innocent and will only become “collateral damage” with the same result. --- Sorry about that.
Just say after me: Eli Eli Lama Sabachani?----- My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?
--- Don’t know if I can explain this to you in this short post, but let me try. Consider how this “Dream” got started in the first place. Most immigrants from Europe were “poor peasants” all being subject to the mercy of their powerful Land Barons and the Government suporting those. What lured these peasants to America was a good chance to become land owners themselves and also as rich and powerful as their previous suppressors; basically reversing their status. It’s a complete role reversal and if one side of this duality is considered evil, so is the other. To day, this wishful dream-process has become true for only 1% or 2% of all Americans, namely for the Millionaire stockholders and their CEOs, who are now saying:”Let them eat cake” to all the rest of us who are again being the “suppressed peasants” of old times. We have “recreated” these old times by clinging to our dream-like illusion.

Famous words by “Alexis de Tocqueville”, 1835: “As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in”.
I call that GREED by any other name!

BODHISATTVA (by Dick Suthpen). The silence is broken by the s-s-wish of the Samurai sword severing illusions - and it rolls across the floor leaving a bloody trail of -- ~--~~-^_~~ -- ~--~~-^_~~ truth

For the two posts below --- Buy American" ---

Try to buy an American TV --- we can't make them anymore. Try to buy quality Black and Decker tools --- they are now made in china, etc, etc, etc. The only "made in America" item I found and bought lately was a hand-pump for tires with no gage for $15 at Wal-Mart. Turned out I did not have the strength at my age anymore to operate it. --- Then I bought the cheapest electric pump I could find. $8.75 with gage at Wal-Mart, small enough to fit inside the clove compartment and works like a charm.

knightofdespair "Roy says - I'm OK with the top 10% of income earners paying over 70% of total personal income taxes paid. What do you propose, and why?........Simple, more people earning above the minimum amount to live is more people who can afford to be taxed"

That sounds similiar to an old Communist saying "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularised by Karl Marx"

Unfortunately for the Soviet Union, they found that people just weren't interested in working hard if someone else got the benefit, which is why economic growth stagnated and their system fell apart 20 years ago. It sort of reminds me of an old Russian joke "The government pretends to pay us (a decent wage), and we pretend to work".

Ignore the work for a moment, (we'll come back to it later, it is important but only one piece of the puzzle here)

A healthy economy means that a lot of people have discretionary money they can spend on things and that money is being circulated around multiple times (in fact as many times as possible locally) before it gets all taxed out or exported to another country or dumped in some millionaires bank account. This is what is currently failing. People work, they work as much or more than they ever did, but they have no discretionary income and what little they can spend does not circulate very much.

Right, we all should "Buy American".... it's too bad more Americans are still waiting for the trickle down to be able to afford to "Buy American" and the many Americans that do have the resources just won't spend that extra 4%... for goods, services or taxes...

The class warfare theme to which "republicans" often envoke is in reality the exact opposite of what they claim...

America has turned itself upside down.

Looked at consumer spending numbers lately? Most Americans have the money to pay the 4% premium. They just choose not to, wanting to pay the lowest price. Nothing Republican or class warfare about it. We just say one thing and do another.

If you are waiting for things to trickle down to you, you pretty much deserve what you get.

Buy american? The american car companies design cars to fail after 4 or 5 years and be non serviceable so that they will be melted down and the enslavement of the consumer goes on with them paying monthly forever. Free trade / capitolism / competition IS the american way. Time to get back to reality and quit being a "home team" idiot driving a piece of crap. My Toyota kicks every american car's oil co supporting ass. Union workers are so spoiled they deserve unemployment too. Cry me a river you been milking us for a hundred years.

I've been telling the young educated people I care about that the best possible career move they could make would be to move from the United States. With the possibility of our Social Security being cut or gone and Wall Street stealing our savings...and getting away with it, who wants to turn 60 something here in the States and have nothing? No medical, no savings and the cost of everything going up. Not only that but who wants to work until they are 70 or older to retire? Who will be capable of doing that? Who will want to employ the 70 year old worker. 50 somethings can't even find employment.

One of the huge differences between Canada and the United States is that to immigrate there you have to have an education and provide a service they can use. Here we let in the uneducated and provide social services that deplete funds for the citizens. Is that compassionate? Yes, but to whom?

I would LOVE to buy American!! Tell me what American company makes TV sets and other electronics? Clothing?? Household goods?? Oh, and if there is one, the product has to be worth my hard earned dollar. I already try to "eat in season" so as to not buy food grown out of the country. I have bought GM cars all my life. But the sad truth is that some items just aren't made here anymore...so how are we supposed to get around that???

the ENTIRE foundation of a successful capitalistic nation is the prosperity of its working classes.

that has been completely lost here in the USA...

The Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, the American Empire. They'll all last forever...right?? From the inside it sure seemed that way.

Bluelake - true dat!

As long as Americans foolishly continue to buy foreign over domestic instead of supporting what their country and they produce the collapse of this ONCE great country will continue unabated. Want jobs? Want a better economy? Want a brighter and more prosperous future? BUY AMERICAN!!! It is the ONLY way out of this mess. LEARN IT!!!

Man, I gotta stop buying Canadian cars and Swedish TV's! That isn't the issue at all, to be honest it also isn't taxation (too little or too much). Its education, it spoke loud and clear, if your from a family where no one went to school and no one can afford to help you, your not going. Why would you?

Hell, I blame the culture of ignorance we have, there are a ton of people who get all high and mighty that they work at a car wash and look down on people that worked their ass off to get a great technical job (a la revenge of the nerds). Hell, I was raised in the 90s (the "everyone is special" 90s everyone hates) and I was told in High School and before that I was an odd duck that no one would ever like and would be stuck in a cubicle all day hating my life, I make more than double what those people who said that make, and I LOVE my job.

Then you have movies about how awesome it is to love your job to such a high extent, but those people are portrayed as loving their job don't choose lucrative careers they love. In those movies, those characters end up flipping burgers or painting pictures, just to do what they love. Arts and etc. are fine but we never get to see the guy who decides he loves architecture or process flow diagrams (there are odd movies out there but I mean main stream like American Beauty where he decides to flip burgers because he hates his job). Loving your job is rare nowadays but those people are successful at it because they WANT to be good for themselves, not some arbitrary number in their bank account.

And then it goes back to the Health Care and Education. People can't afford to be educated, and we are losing our smartest (I was in the process of trying to find a grant in another country because its impossible to find a good PhD program in America). I'm not the top of the barrel but you would have lost me for good if I had gone to europe for my degree. Then you have people lose their homes because they go cancer or something, how do those people provide for an education for their kids when they can't afford to LIVE.

The problem with the american dream is it came true, but not in the way we thought. We wanted absolute freedom and lower taxes, we gut what we could and allowed oil companies to blast carcinogens in our water. We want to do what we love and idolize singers and football stars, so our kids quit education to follow those dreams and they get robbed instead, still dreaming of that day that they "make it". We want people to achieve and gain mobility but we don't want to have to pay for other peoples fortunes, so we gut education and blame them for not going farther when they can't get the education to make it further.

american car companies design cars to fail after 4 or 5 years and be non serviceable

That's not true. It pays to research facts, and not just parrot what you heard 30 years ago.

These days American cars are as reliable or more reliable than those made by anyone.

A few years ago I calculated what I had spent on repairs for every car I ever had, and divided that number by the number of miles I was able to drive the vehicle. Around 1980, I had shifted to Hondas and Toyotas because a Chevy pickup truck I had was substandard in terms of quality and it irritated me.

After a series of Japanese cars (all rated very reliable by consumer reports), I bought a used Chrysler because the used Toyotas and Hondas in the same price range were much older and in much worse shape (a testimony either to the degree to which Japanese cars held value, or the stupidity of the average consumer).

When it came time to trade in the Chrylser for a new car, I discovered that, even though it was rated poorly for reliability by Consumer Reports, I had spent far less money on repairs per mile than ANY of the Japanese models I had owned. So I bought an American car and later on another, and have paid exactly ZERO dollars in repairs on the two of them combined.

Then I found out that Consumer Report rates reliability based on a qualitative survey of their own subscribers (i.e., no science is involved in developing the reliability ratings). When I began asking people how much they spent on repairs, most owners of Japanese cars said "nothing", but most had actually spent many thousands of dollars on periodic routine preventative maintenance programs (about four times more on average than I spent on waiting for things to need fixing before I paid for repairs).

These days American cars are as reliable or more reliable than those made by anyone.

Try this, maybe you will learn something important about what the real situation is...maybe you won't:

c-span.org/Events/In-Depth-with-Author-and-Journalist-Chris-Hedges/10737426679-1/

People who think that the American business will support the American consumer if only the consumer would buy American are idiots. American businesses are exactly like businesses elsewhere. Their sole purpose is to supply a service or good that is in demand and make a profit doing so. They will outsource manufacturing to other places if it will make them a greater profit. They are sitting on record profits now and not using that money to invest more or expand their manufacturing in the US. Instead they are investing where the growth is occurring and where the costs are less. They really could care less whether more or less Americans are out of work - the markets they are pursuing are elsewhere.

Buying American, if you can find it, will not mean you are creating more American jobs. That is a fallacy.

Don't feed Truth4uHereNow, he is an obvious troll and makes this same lame a$$ posting everywhere he goes.

These days American cars are as reliable or more reliable than those made by anyone.

I am sorry to say that has not been my experience. I drove a compact Chevrolet, and my wife drives a compact Honda. The Chevrolet kept having to go back for warranty. Nothing serious, but would have been expensive to take care of had it not been under warranty. The Honda on the other hand has been wonderful all these years we have owned it.

Now the Chevrolet did drive far better than the Honda. In fact, the driving quality of the Honda is pretty poor. However, the Chevrolet just kept getting problem after problem after problem popping up.

Agreed, my 2000 Nissan Maxima is nickel and diming me to death. I am buying a Chevy truck next year.

TXMX, look up the term "Anecdotal evidence"

Iceman, I have a 2001 Infiniti I-30t that is doing the same to me. My inlaw just had to spend 3K in a transmission repair on an Accura too.

For every story about a bad US car there is a equally bad story about a foreign car.

The problem with Social Security, of which there are many, is that it was sold as a retirement plan by Democrats when it was rolled out . If they would have set it up properly and as a true safety net for the retired, surviving and disabled poor it may not have become the $17.5 trillion unfunded gorilla in the room. It should have been set up as a tax with safeguards in place where it would have taken a Constitutional amendment to use it for anything else but the retired, surviving and disabled poor and not as the Ponzi scheme that it is. You pay into it and by law the amount over the amount paid out must be invested in treasuries. This just gives more of our money for the government to spend. People don't look at it as a tax. They look at it as something they've paid into and are owed. Problem is the money's been lent to the government and when they are required to pay it back they will have to tax us, again. I for one don't look at taxes as something I'll ever see. I would rather have it as a tax and you must qualify for the benefit. Back in the day I suppose that they didn't want people to think that there would be a stigma attached to it for obtaining benefits so they said everyone would get it. Another liberty given up and another dependence on government.

ScoMata,

Iceman, I have a 2001 Infiniti I-30t that is doing the same to me. My inlaw just had to spend 3K in a transmission repair on an Accura too.

Huh? The damn things are 12 and 11 years old respectively! FYI I would be surprised to see an American car that old, that wasn't driven by an grandma, still on the road.

TXMX, look up the term "Anecdotal evidence"

Very true, but I am just stating that my personal experience hasn't lived up to the hype that "American cars are reliable". I was very disappointed in my Chevrolet purchase.

Across my extended family, the experience has been repeated. My brother's Toyota has been flawless, my parent's Honda still runs great, their previous and current Toyota couldn't have been better, my father in law couldn't be happier with his Honda, and so on. Across my extended family, there have been 10 Hondas, 6 Toyotas, 2 Nissans, and 2 Mazdas. So far, there hasn't been a single dog in the bunch. Now there are some domestics in my family, and some of those have held up ok, and some haven't.

So on my next purchase I could either throw the dice again on an American car and just hope I can get one where they weren't asleep on the assembly line, or I can go with one of the brands that at least for my family has proven to be a winner over and over again. Take a guess which I will go with.

Huh? The damn things are 12 and 11 years old respectively! FYI I would be surprised to see an American car that old, that wasn't driven by an grandma, still on the road.

Actually, the 5 speed automatic that was previously used on many 6 cylinder Acuras and Hondas HAS proven to be a problem point. I will admit that. In fact, I have found Honda automatics to be a little screwy overall. If they are reliable, like all the 4 cylinder transmissions are, the shift schedule is frustrating to say the least. Their manual transmissions are top notch though.

Hugin and Munin, you are absolutely correct. In part, this is what the charter school phenomenon was about. Sorting children by appearances is not the way to improve education. And now, some states are allowing families to opt out of sending their child to any physical classroom, and then just do the total instruction on-line. So I guess we will see how that turns out!?!?

You have to ignore ANY comment made by chuckzul the troll. IT is completely anti-American and more than likely some foreigner hoping for the demise of this country. IT hangs on my EVERY word, but then why not, I DO speak the truth. Now go BUY AMERICAN and lets get this country back on track. To ALL you nay-sayers, rethink your stance on America or watch as things deteriorate further. I own a '71 Chevy pickup, '77 Harley, just sold an '83 Chevy Cavalier, gave a '98 Ford Explorer to my daughter, ride regularly my '04 Harley (with 116,000 miles on it), and bought a '10 Ford pickup...ALL are still running. Your foreign is better nonsense is PURE rhetoric.

Bluelake

The Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, the American Empire. They'll all last forever...right?? From the inside it sure seemed that way.

Of course the time frames are arguable but the Roman Empire lasted 275 years, the Ottoman 624 years and the British 500 years.

Where did we go wrong with only 80 years of prosperity?

That is your theory. Unfounded.

As long as the US political leaders continue to tout that we are best in the world in every way and ignore any data that may show we have many areas that require improvement, we as a country will flounder in our ignorance.

Open dialog with partisan agendas set aside is the only way we will advance in education, incomes and international competitiveness.

That is not correct, sarg. Canada has a huge immigrant population that originates from countries all over the world. It is far easier to emigrate to Canada than it is to emigrate to the U.S.

Ol Yellow Dog, however, is correct. Americans foolishly buy into the myth that we are the best at everything, when there is ample evidence to prove that we are not. We do not have the best system of public education, health care, or public transportation, just to name a few. We are a nation in decline, and some are not only content with the status quo but want us to move backward.

Wake up and smell the coffee...we need to raise our children to be able to compete in a globalized world, and we need to improve our diet. We are among the unhealthiest people in the developed world.

By the way, Santorum complains about the negative impact of single motherhood, but he is against birth control and he believes no woman should ever have an abortion for any reason. He also believes the government should not help the unplanned children of single mothers. What is his solution to the issue of single motherhood then?

illegals have NOTHING G to do with the prosperity of America... the only issue is greed from the 1% and the laws they have over zealously perverted with their wealth influence in our politics and media

The degree to which the right wing will bend to avoid the truth is astounding. Ignore every real reason and blame another class of victims of corporate greed and sociopathic behavior. Bottom line, social mobility is gone because the top one percent have all the disposable income.

Really dong? Illegals aren't a huge economic problem in this country? Do a little reasearch on the subject before you write anything else so foolish.

kaybeetoys

What is his solution to the issue of single motherhood then?

Kill the mother so she isn't a repeat offender more than likely. I love that the republicans stand on top of the mountain and scream at others about how they are the party of values and how christian they are; and then turn around do the exact opposite.

It seems to me they are not really interested in christian values as much as they want to control every aspect of other people's lives.

One solution ot the issue of single motherhoosd is to stop paying women who already have children and are on public assistance more money every time they pop out another kid. It only encourages irresonsible behavior - and these children are being "raised" by people with few values, little morals or character and almost no ability to giude their children properly. So guess what? These children grow up to reproduce and continue the cycle of poverty. Our society was able to shoulder the burden of these people for a long time because there wasn't that many of them. But their numbers keep growing, much of that thanks to Democratic manipulation to make SURE that they do, and we have reached the point where the earners are being crushed by the takers. This can't go on any longer.

No people, the solution to single motherhood is don't have sex. If you're not married sex is evil. If you are married and are not trying to procreate, sex is evil. Masturbation is evil, thinking about sex or masturbation is evil. It's the long, long, long battle between religion and sex. Santorum's religion leads the way in that battle. Birth control? Evil. Family planning? Evil. Planned Parenthood? Evil. Homosexuality? Evil. Bisexuality? Evil. Raping young boys in the church vestry? Hmmm...we'll have to look into that.

@jaxguy- Funny, I thought that about every religion... even Barack has said things and did another.

Canada gets a ton of Illegals also (Boat People) from Asia mostly.

The one unending truth of history is the migration of animals and people to the source of food and in the case of man this means the abilty to better yourself. As long as things in the US are better than they are in Mexico they will come here but if things in Canada are appreciably better than here you will soon see a northward migration of young Americans. It is called voting with your feet.

Grilledcheesesandwich -- go look up the stats of the rate of reproduction of those on welfare vs. the entire population of the US. You'll see it's no different. The idea that women are just popping out babies all over the place to get more welfare is nothing more than a myth.

Sure, sarge.

No doubt, Mexico is also to blame for your bald spot and that embarassing rash. Were it not for the great Mexican conspiracy, you would be living in a palace and people would be waiting breathlessly at your beck and call.

There are few things a pathetic as someone who feels the need to blame all their problems on those LESS fortunate than themselves.

Try accepting personal responsibility, and you might find yourself happier with the results and less inclined to blame complete strangers for the fact that you are unhappy with your lot in life.

Do a little reasearch on the subject before you write anything else so foolish.

You would be wise to follow your own advice, but it's pretty clear you won't.

You knew at least one wack job was going to blame illegal immigrants. The thing is, if your in the EU you can migrate and work in other EU countries, without a problem. So they have open boarders. Furthermore, physical mobility is higher in Europe. It's not uncommon to live in one part of France and commute to any other part of France for work, especially when they have the Euro rail. But don't talk to republicans about a high speed rail, that's just more a that big government.

The US has become a governmental system that focuses primarily on the established wealthy. This top tier shall be protected, maintained, and perpetuated even at the expense and exclusion of the fundamental classes which built it. This has ever been so, with few exceptions which were never strong enough to effect basic changes. We did enjoy a true "national welfare state" from the late 40's through the late 70's furnished us by FDR's New Deal policies. That time afforded everyone access opportunity from bottom to top. That though, has been eroded, and will continue to be suppressed by the exploitation, and to the favor, of societal blights of bigotry, fear, religion and greed among the masses.

Yes Dem in Texas, and Germany (the economically strongest country) and others are run be Social-Democratic Governments. Only Americans think "Socialist" is a dirty world.

@chris - I thought I responded earlier, I do agree with that all religions are like that. However, I believe that the so-called christians are the worst of the bunch though. I'm sure they will scream that it's Islam and the taliban, but to me the difference is, I can islam coming. I know that they want me killed because I don't agree with their religious views. Christians are much more coniving though. They want to look all sweet and "here's a basket of goodies for you"; but they will stab you in the back just as quick as anyone.

The United States is the lowest on too many measures of the Human Development Index if compared to other first-world, or 'western', countries.

Prove to me in some way shape or form that Obama has helped the middle class! And dont be cute and leave out his relationships with the likes Of Goldman Sachs and His donations from John Corzine!

Prove to me one thing the GOP has done in the last three years to help the economy of this country and especially those hit most hard by the economic collapse. The track record speaks for itself for both sides; all you have to do is look.

I suppose I come from a different perspective in that my family immigrated to the US when I was 14 and I was pretty happy not to have 6 days a week of school. That said, I wonder where the base for the statement of children following their parent’s educational trajectory really comes from. Is it because the US education system is failing? Or is it more to do with the fact college tuition is insanely expensive and the areas of concentration people go into are getting ridiculous and have no subsequent job market value. What do you do with a major in History if you don’t want to teach? Or even Political Science? A friend of mine in college majored in Japanese studies and wondered why he couldn’t find a job.

Also, from being an outsider looking in, there’s a lack of emphasis on science and math in the US, and I think that coupled with the immense devaluation of what are dubbed “blue collar” jobs, tech-school/apprenticeship training, and being a skilled laborer are also a large part of the problem.

In my opinion, forget universal health care. Make education more accessible and bring back the old days where intelligence could thrive, and not be dumbed down for the sake of the rest of the class.

more scare and fear from the brainwashed liberal left. the education system hasn't worked for decades. why does the left fight so hard to keep it from changing?

ssmike.........Obama has at least tried, got the tax payers bill passed, only after the American people came down on the Boehner & Cantor. Obama tried to get a job package passed, but of course the GOP stopped that. So tell me what the GOP has done to help the economy, jobs(from those so called job creators), tax breaks for the middle class(God forbid we did that). They are adding to deficit by not raising taxes on the wealthiest, which most Americans think is only fair that they help in crisis we are in, it would at least help bring down our deficit.

Clearly it failed you.

madening - Killing it is changing it... but not for the better.

i heard on the radio a woman whose husband made 2 million dollars a year as a banker had to take 50 percent pay cut.she blamed obama.she was very upset that she had to lay off one of her nannys.as she put it"her servants become just like family"

GOP: The party that helps those that have the means to help themselves.

My observation is that the GOP needs a democratic government to inherit a s$@thole economy; Carter, Clinton and now Obama administrations; that takes four years to recover and for the GOP to come back and say what a crap job the democrats have done. It is "We the People "that run this country NOT the United
Corporations of America (UCA)! The UCA allows you to work be a good citizen pay
your bills on time while they suck the life out of you!

What positively affects the FEW or negatively affects the FEW can NEVER negatively affect the MANY!

Rob you are so wrong! I have a friend who made the smartest move in her life. She works in Flint, Michigan. Didn't want to buy property in Detroit, so she bought a "vacation" home in Canada. Got it? She's now on track to become a "resident" of Canada.

Rob, it looks like you pretty much missed the entire point of the article. Americans have less upward mobility than do the citizens of many other nations. Poor children, hungry and homeless, are not to blame for their circumstances. We need to help children whose parents cannot help them. We need to feed and educate all our children. They are the future of this country, poor as well as rich. The trends are plain to see for those who will open their eyes.

Sounds like she chose not to participate in the "poor to dead" group. Smart move!

Kaybeetoys.....I agree. We need to help the children, who are unfortunate victims of some parents who shirk their responsibilty to help their children succeed.

But we can't just treat the symptoms. We have to cure the disease. If we don't, there will always be an endless supply of fatherless children, many who think the government owes them a living or that dealing drugs on the streetcorner is how you get ahead in life.

Rob, we know it's hard to see things clearly with your head shoved so far up there...but the major cause of kids not having a parent around is that BOTH parents have to work, work long hours, and those parents are not able to be PARENTS.

If a family could have one parent stay home with the kid[s] while the other worked and got paid enough for the family to not only survive on, but to have some savings, some hope for their kids futures, things would be much better...be as the American dream is portrayed.

Now get busy with that lube and sooner or later your head will pop out.

I doubt most people, especially the "rich get richer" crowd, really have a problem with small business owners, or people who are making 200k/year on said small business by creating the business, and putting in the effort to run it.

Most people are pissed off at Lynn Elsenhans of the world, who does about 500k/year salary with 800k bonus in her first year as CEO of Sunoco, but that company is shutting down refineries which is killing jobs and the local economies around those refineries. That is what people are pissed about, instead of reinvesting 600k/700k of that bonus into the company, these guys/gals are pocketing the cash.

I didn't see many people angry at Steve Jobs over the last few years, and my wager would be that is because his yielded actual improvements in his company, and in people's lives. He was worth the money he was being paid.

cbawl - with all due respect, BULLSH*T. I live in NJ, with some of the poorest cities in the country. The performance of the students in most of the public schools in our cities is abysmal. And yes, SOME of those parents are too busy working multiple jobs to be able to help their kids much. But the vast majority of those "families" are failing because they are headed by a single mother, who dropped out of high school after becoming pregnant, has multiple children with multiple "fathers" who aren't around to father their offspring, are living off of a multiplicity of public assistance programs, abuse drugs and alcohol & don't give a rat's ass about their kids' education. For god's sake, do you know how many of those people can barely speak intelligible english? And they are born and raised AMERICANS!!!

Meanwhile the suburbs of NJ have been forced to funnel BILLIONS of our taxpayer dollars into those cities for decades now, to finance failed Democratic "social programs" with almost nothing to show for it. It has become quite clear to me that democrats have absolutely no interest whatsoever in helping these people become self-sufficient and independent from the government. That would destroy their constituency. Anyone who believes the Democratic lie that they are for the "little guy" is a damn fool. Period.

We need to stop paying people to have kids, we need to stop letting people live off of government assistance in perpetuity if they are able to work and we need to stop pretending that we can fix all of society's social ills. We can't. At some point, people have to decide for themselves to make the right choices. The government simply cannot be the answer to everyone's problems. It has NEVER worked and it never will.

Jrs952, I agree with you that CEO's pay has gotten out of hand in many cases, and the bonus's can be ridiculous. But I disagree with folks making a general statement that "rich are getting richer" and feel it is overblown for politics. I don't see it as a main cause of middle class problems that are more complex than most realize.

So grilled, did you actually go pilfering through all these kids records or are you assuming? AGAIN?

We don't need overblown statements of "the rich are getting richer" there are hard statistical facts about it:

http: / /a rticles.latimes.com/2011/oct/27/business/la-fi-rich-poor-20111027

htt p:// w w w.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-10-27/income-gap/50952720/1

Don, you are absolutely correct about the complexity in the problems facing the middle class, and a lot of power-players and pundits are taking advantage of that. The middle class is being squeezed from a lot of different angles, some of their own making and some from outside influences beyond their control.

That said, when the business owners, board members, and "job creators", are no longer willing to reinvest that money and are instead pocketing it, it is a contributing factor to the middle class problems. Money that would have gone towards raises, promotions, or new hires, are no longer in the budget.

kaybeetoys-... We need to help children whose parents cannot help them. We need to feed and educate all our children. They are the future of this country, poor as well as rich. The trends are plain to see for those who will open their eyes.

The reason poverty exists and continues to expand despite all efforts to curb it is that the poorest populations reproduce at the highest rates. Period.

Those who have no job skills or education (and often simply don't bother to attain either), are the ones producing multiple offspring that need clothing, food, housing, education and healthcare, usually on the backs of the hard working taxpayers. That generation grows into the same pattern, themselves producing multiple needy offspring.

What do the rest of us get for our trouble of struggling to improve our skillset, education and earning potential? We get the government confiscating OUR money to pay for programs for the ever-growing number of irresponsible breeders who won't keep it in their pants.

grilledcheesesandwich- We need to stop paying people to have kids, we need to stop letting people live off of government assistance in perpetuity if they are able to work and we need to stop pretending that we can fix all of society's social ills. We can't. At some point, people have to decide for themselves to make the right choices. The government simply cannot be the answer to everyone's problems. It has NEVER worked and it never will.

Exactly!

I don't have a problem with a safety net to help CITIZENS get back on their feet after a tragedy or family loss, but to steal from the hard working and responsible to fund a growing army of breeding deadbeats generation after generation is wrong, anti-American, and will cost us our freedom and our country..

I would just like to point out that EVERY family I personally know with more than 4 kids are hard core bible thumping 2 parent married families. The poor single mothers I know have no more than 2 kids.

Now that is just the people I know so not universal but come one people think about the people you actually know??? Which has more kids.

machinehead, you forgot to say you wanted all these women SPADED . (Just like cats.)

Those who have no job skills or education (and often simply don't bother to attain either), are the ones producing multiple offspring that need clothing, food, housing, education and healthcare, usually on the backs of the hard working taxpayers. That generation grows into the same pattern, themselves producing multiple needy offspring.

Machinehead, yes those people exist, but their children are not the poor and homeless I was referring to. There are kids in America now whose parents have lost their jobs and their homes, middle class people who work hard and are good parents. They try to find employment but in too many cases they cannot, and their situation is dire.

Corporate America used to take some responsibility for the welfare of their employees. Not anymore. CEO's rake in millions as they lay off thousands of employees. Corporations send jobs overseas because labor is cheap in China and other countries. The emphasis is placed on increasing shareholder value, a short term goal. America is falling behind because our economic and political focus is designed to provide immediate gratification.

Our problems are complex, but our citizenry wants easy answers. The simple answer is this:

We cannot all have everything we want. We all need to be willing to make sacrifices for the common good. Our priorities must be set on building and repairing our infrastructure and preparing our nation's children to compete in the global economy. Some will be left behind, and they will be those who are unwilling to educate themselves and work hard. We cannot all succeed, but we need to return this country to a place where anyone can succeed, through opportunity and hard work.

Republicans have their heads in the sand. Democrats haven't made much progress in convincing the other side to cooperate. So instead of waiting for the government to 'fix' things, we all need to be willing to work together. We need to volunteer in our communities and in our schools. We need to inform ourselves about our local issues and our national issues, and we need to stop thinking that the only measure of improvement in this country is how our personal situations are improved. What is best for our communities and for our nation is never going to be what is best for each of us individually.

It takes a village to raise a child, and it takes an involved and informed citizenry for a democracy to succeed. We're losing our country to bickering and selfishness...I hate to see this happen to the greatest nation on earth.

ROTFLMAO....

What ssmike said is the absolute truth. We have the exact same situation in NJ. Big government, unions and endless DEMOCRATIC social programs are killing us.

hey ssmike there isn't any middle class anymore only rich and poor

Idiot. Unions represent less than 12% of the American workforce. Are you expecting us to believe the run this place? Far more beliveble is that this country is run for and by the big corporate and banking interests represented by the GOP/TP and others of their ilk.

The middle class has been destroyed by the greed of the 1% and thier lickspittle minions like yourself.

So let's see, maybe the solution is to get rid of health insurance, taxes, the social safety net (such as it is), shrink government to a microscopic size, tell the poor they'll have to fend for themselves, have only Republican governments from now on, and have the American people depend on the generosity of the rich. America! What a country! One thing's for sure, people would be busting the doors down to move to Canada or Europe should this scenario ever happen. Then you Republicans would finally be happy.

Jim Potter - snide comments such as yours do nothing to advance the conversation. Only a child would consider a response like yours to be intelligent, witty and meaningful in any way. And a stupid child, at that.

Gee, you really think so? Seems to me that it's what you Rethuglicans are trying to achieve. A country that doesn't give a crap about its citizens except for the 1%, expanding its worldwide empire even though the whole world hates us, and takes the USA down the drain. You really think my comment is childish? Wow, I guess the truth hurts you more than I thought!

NJ is a really bad example, its a crap state being choked by interests taking all the money they can from the coffers. MA is a GREAT example of how things should work, they take in less federal money than they put out, and the state is run quite well. I moved from MA to TX and the difference is stifling. The water here is garbage, the air is worse, the municipalities are run like crap, if MA is a totalitarian state I'd take it any day over absolute freedome to suffer. The best part is? To move to MA I had to pay far less taxes then to move to TX. AND TX takes in more federal cash than it gives out.

I'd stop blaming blue states because the main point your going to see against you is that red states use more federal money than they give, and blue do the opposite (this is also because of the infrastructure costs of southern states).

John makes a GREAT point, unions are disapearing, and vanishing more and more every day, yet somehow the rush ditto heads want us to think that they run tne country.

No way. NJ must be the shining light of the country. It is after all run by a Republican governor no? What's that? Christie is bending you over? And SS didn't Romney make MA all roses and sunshine for you hon?

John Obama is a wall street shill! How much did he take from John Corzine? Another thief from Goldman Sachs getting a free pass from this administration. Prove me wrong!

ssmike - prove you wrong? That's easy! There is no John Obama!

I'm ok with both of those.....as long as we do away with the welfare and subsidized housing programs which keep many of the lower income citizens happy with living off the government dole.

Saffron -- yes! Yes!

College education and universal health care are not free. Taxes are high in the countries that provide these benefits. There isn't a culture of mindless consumerism as in the US, nor heavily funded militarism.

This will never happen here in the US. Our politicians care nothing for the American people or the country, only what is in it for them.

What about the children of the poor, Rob? Is it their fault their parents can't or don't feed them or house them adequately, can't or don't help them to get an education? What should we do, let them starve?

No we shouldn't, kaybeetoys. I don't think I implied that. What I want to do is have programs that lift a generation out of poverty.......not enslave and encourage generations to permanently exist on it. And I see little that Sharpton does to help with that.

Why do liberals always advocate handouts?!? People need help, NOT handouts! Contrary to what the Robin Hoods of the U.S. advocate, the "free" education and "free" healthcare offered in lesser nations like Canada come at a cost. That cost is not just monetary, but one that devalues hard work and self determination. The U.S. currently offers ample "help" (pell grants, student loans, medicaid, food stamps, welfare, etc., etc., etc...) The problem is that liberals don't want to do the work that "help" requires. They just want it all to be "free".

there is no such thing as a free lunch...why are people (both rich and poor) always looking for the free lunch angle? Free education, free healthcare?? This is absurd. Someone has to pay for it -- -someone always does ...you'll see it in higher taxes at all levels of gov't ...higher sales tax ...higher gas prices ( the tax baked into the gas price) ...I really think this study is biased and suspicious thats its coming out in an election year ----this type of rhetoric only helps class envy and warfare --- the crowned jewel of the obama admin campaign.

No one seems to talk about the crushing debt that europe has ( equal that of the US) --- the persistent and high unemployment rate. The austerity programs that are going to cut all those wonderful benefits that the liberal,socialist politicians promised people.

Cut gov't spending, bring back the gold standard or at least a precious metals standard for those of you who cant stand to see the gov't deprived of spending money. cut the military by 20%.eliminate federal income tax ( this would reduce gov't spending by 40%.) we are already borrow something like 45cents on every dollar the gov't spends anyway. pay down the defeicit to make the dollar stronger and borrowing power stronger ....it is actually quite simple -- the problem is the politicians dont want to let go of the money and power to hand out entitlements ( both rich and poor) ...everyone is still looking for that free lunch in one way or another ....

everybody wants freedom from...not freedom to.... They want freedom from fear, sickness, poverty, you name it ....the gov't cant promise these things no one can ...the best they can do is freedom to ....freedom to seize opportunities freedom to save the money you earn, freedom to make economic decisions rahter than having the gov't make them for you etc .....

it really is quite simple --- but we wont acknowledge our own short comings and our own unfounded fears and jealousy -- kind of like the addict who wont admit he has a problem --- everybody else is the problem, except of course his dealer who provides the drug ( in this case the federal gov't again both rich and poor take advantage in one way or another .....)

alinnj -- first of all - debt does not have to be the issue so many people are making it out to be. Chicago School economics have created this mess. Any country that has adopted this insane form of economics has experienced what we are experiencing -- or worse.

What this form of economics does is drain public money from nations -- depriving them of the ability to serve their people -- and put that money into private pockets. Hence a drastic cut in public services, obscene wealth at the top of the private sector, and a disappearance of the middle class.

While you are correct that government can't provide freedom from fear, freedom from sickness and freedom from poverty, it can go along way toward alleviating those things. I feared my government under Bush. I think Obama is trying to rectify things. Medicare and Medicaid are there to help people who could not otherwise afford health care. And social safety nets are there to help people stay out of abject poverty, though they have been ripped apart in past decades.

If you look at countries where the Chicago School economics have been put in place, they do it through fear and deprivation. They shut people up. They make them afraid. Through the political arm of those countries, they torture people and they impose martial law so that nobody can object. Once their dastardly deeds are done, they loosen up -- but by then the wealth of the nations is in private pockets. It's nasty.

The rich corporatists -- because they are rich -- are taking advantage of the situation far more than ANYONE else.

Well, unless this is sarcasm, I hope you enjoy the competition with China, India and the rest of the world. Education is the single most important part of the future of this society. Unless you're one of those that wishes to scratch the earth for a living, I suggest you re-evaluate your comment. As far as healthcare goes, no I think we should always keep it where we are customers rather than patients. Isn't that what healthcare is all about? Now, that's sarcasm.

Something you seem to miss with regard to “free” education in most of Europe and elsewhere is that you have to test into it, you test into a specialty (like engineering or medicine), and if you don’t test in you are SOL and no longer get a college education.

no such thing as free. Somebody pays for it.

The data on the importance of family is interesting. Regardless of whether a child is raised in a poor family, a middle class one or a wealthy one, children learn more from their parents than from anyone else. That includes things like values, work ethic and attitudes toward education.

It seems quite possible that the reasons children from poor families tend to stay poor as adults have far less to do with how much money their parent(s) had when they were growing up, and far more to do with what they learned...or didn't...from their parents.

Dude, move when ever ya want. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out of the country......

Yes, move. And help those socialistic countries pay for the "free" services that you want so badly.

No one seems to talk about the crushing debt that europe has ( equal that of the US) --- the persistent and high unemployment rate. The austerity programs that are going to cut all those wonderful benefits that the liberal,socialist politicians promised people.

Key monikers are "like the US". So not only do we have the same spending in our Govt but we have people bankrupt because they had the audacity to get cancer. The high unemployment rate in almost all these countries is high for them but really low for us. But this is all assuming your statements are true, lets look at the facts.

Sweden debt - 35% of GDP; American debt - 99.7% of GDP. (Both from both government agencies respectively)

Sweden unemployment - 7.9% American unemployment - 9% (BLS.gov and Labor force survey of Sweden)

Oh my... their dreams must be collapsing around them because they are so much worse off then us... all those things are going to be taken away from them because of their stifling problems... oh wait, they are doing pretty damn good.

Don't use Greece or Italy as a comparison, the article was not talking about those countries. The article stated that these few countries have higher mobility, and we've prided ourselves on being better than them because of our high mobility. But we don't have high mobility and now everyone is saying "so we have more debt, more unemployment, worse education, worse mobility, no health care? How does that work if we've been told we'll collapse if we do what they do... maybe thats not true!". Sorry your narrative is dying.

Correct again. I used to do collections and I would collect against middle class and upper class who were devastated by an illness, normally terminal. They couldn't pay their bills because of hospital costs and eventually declared bk.

Do those countries also provide free military services, soldiers and hardware ,? wasting billions of our dollars on warfare that changes nothing! Replacing one corrupt regime with another corrupt regime!

ssmike - What do you think about the wasting of TRILLIONS of dollars on "defense". The Rumsfeld Department of War was audited by the GAO and the Pentagon couldn't account for 2.3 TRILLION dollars. Do you think the TRILLION dollars spent on the war with Iraq was a good investment?

BTW there is no such thing as free military services provided by the US.

I think it is all about political capitol and money at the expense of our children! Really ? what have we gotten in return?

Amen Deb you are so right. I had stroke at 46 two years ago. What was I concerned with while in the hospital? Getting better? Rehab? No! I stayed in bed each night dreaming the nightmare of how I was going to handle the inevitable medical bill, already having gone bankrupt due to my wife's medical expenses years earlier. In America there is no more dream, only nightmares.

Right you are --- most of Europe has totally free healthcare and the counter argument I am hearing from Americans is that OUR QUALITY is better. (Wrong, World-wide we are down to place 25, same as the little country Uruqy (don't even lnow how to spell that)

When President Regan needed his Cancer fixed he went to Germany, even when HE had to pay his bill there.

A call for "Isolationism" has never worked in the past.

As for the lack of innovation in America I suspect the problem has more to do with the liability crisis rather than foreign competition. Let someone get hurt with your patented product and the lawyers will take away everything you have.

Now our government has forced companies to manufacture everything over in China (economically forced).

LOL! HAHAHAHA!!!!!

You're kidding right? The government of the United States is OWNED by big business. It does whatever big business wants.

Its more like "Companies forced the government to let them manufacture in China for more profit and are taking advantage.". Those free trade agreements didn't come about without heavy amounts of lobbying.

The government forced Chinese made goods "down our throats"? It was corporations like WalMart that made those decisions, not the government. I know it's more emotionally satisfying to blame everything you don't like on the government, but you might want to actually have facts to back up your assertions.

The US Country-dumpty fell off the Wall-(street) and all of King Obama’s horses and all of his men can’t put “US Country-dumpty” back together again. --- I am sure however that “some” of his men actually do have good ideas, but King Obama uses these only for his “State of the Union address”, where he never means what he says or says what he means. What he did say was: We need to OUT- INNOVATE, to OUT- EDUCATE, and to OUT- BUILD the rest of the world”. (Never mind that the “US Country-dumpty” had just been downgraded to 5^th place in its “Global Ranking” for innovation.) However, I do have a “Prove of Concept” for the King’s pretended demands, which has cost me “10 engineering-man-years” to accomplish (my 1.5 Million donation), but it can’t wait, because by next year the US will be so short on money that it can’t afford innovations any longer. I wish I could get just one of “King’s men " (E.g. Jeffrey Immelt) to listen to me about “how to put our US Country-dumpty back together again”.

Did you steel that line Pete from Andy Grove?

" Intel's Andy Grove is more blunt. "America ... [is going] down the tubes," he says, "and the worst part is nobody knows it. They're all in denial, patting themselves on the back, as the Titanic heads for the iceberg full speed ahead."

our free medical plan is one of the best in the world. we have top medical staff and the waiting time you reported is ludicrous.... you forgot to mention sub-standard medical services in state and county hospitals to americans with no private insurance. as for the free care, yes, why should it not be only available to canadians ...?

you also complained about the rate of our taxes: most canadians are happy to pay taxes in return for ivy league university education for approx. $2,000 per semester compared to the tuituion americans pay.

we have a stable banking financials system and moreover don't have the crooks like the madoffs and his ilk which nearly brought the usa to its knees.

I would happily pay 14% if I knew all of these pesky things like healthcare and retirement and unemployment were taken care of. What do you imagine you pay privately for all of these things?

I'll bet the average American family of 4 pays much more than 14% of their yearly purchases just for healthcare. Forget about college or retirement or savings for unemployment... oops, I forgot this is America--we don't worry about those things because magically one day we'll win the lottery or become the next hip hop mogul.

Really...not a Canadian citizen yet wanting to get Canadian healthcare...what a pathetic parasite some people are.

Sounds like someone is whining that they can't screw over more people, leech off more people, deprive others, as they do in America...

...and having two homes???? I can guess you are not even middle class...more like a 1% type troll. STFU, sell one house, and pay for your own healthcare.

I'm also willing to bet that foreigners who need medical care while in Canada pay LESS for it than those Americans without insurance pay here in the US.

The majority of Canadians are willing to pay the taxes, we don't love it of course, but we do recognize the value of our society and our health-care system. Long waits in an ER are standard in every hospital I've ever been in, including civilian hospitals in the US as well as US Navy hospitals in the US and overseas. So, it's ridiculous to blame the Canadian system for long waits. No one Canadian that I know has had to wait years for an operation that they NEEDED.

As for a previous post that "lesser" nations like Canada devalue hard work and self-determination ... what is the basis for this ludicrous statement? Also, "lesser"? Love to be the one to tell you, Canada is richer by far in every imaginable way than the USA. We just don't suffer from an inferiority complex and need to assert ourselves by putting down other nations. Sorry.

Interesting. I lived in the Uk for 25 years and I can tell you that as far as medical/healthcare, it far out shined that which I have in the US. We probably have the best healthcare in the world if you travel in those groups that can afford it. Waiting lists? I tried to make appointment with my doctor here and was given 2 weeks at the earliest. So, please spare us the horror of other countries healthcare and concentrate on the horrors of our own healthcare. Its broken beyond repair and only needs the door kicked in. Single Payer is the only way forward and I have great belief that once all the smoke has settled, it will be our norm.

mj-1451595-I would happily pay 14% if I knew all of these pesky things like healthcare and retirement and unemployment were taken care of. What do you imagine you pay privately for all of these things?

I'll bet the average American family of 4 pays much more than 14% of their yearly purchases just for healthcare. Forget about college or retirement or savings for unemployment... oops, I forgot this is America--we don't worry about those things because magically one day we'll win the lottery or become the next hip hop mogul.

I just did the math- My family of four pays 16 percent of our pre-tax income just on medical and dental insurance. I'd be thrilled to exchange that for a 14 percent tax on purchases instead. Especially as I already pay 7 percent sales tax anyway.

I had knee surgury 13 years ago. My wait was for 4 months, and could've gotten it done sooner but the timing didn't work for me. I have a cousin who had a hip replacement and that was a 2 month wait.

We also service the patients that need it the most, not necessarily the ones that were waiting the longest, nor the ones with the deepest wallets either. Although there were allegations recently that people with political connections did get faster service, and there was a big backlash for it. Everyone is treated the same, and waits the same, and is based on need.

Elective surgeries can take time to get done, but if you are having a heart attack you WILL get a doctor NOW and at ANY hospital.

As for taxes, it depends on where you live. In Alberta its 5% (GST), and no provincial taxes, so move to a cheaper province then.

Taxes on your income are really simple in Alberta it is a flat 10%, and doesn't matter if you make $20,000 / year or $1,000,000 / year. Federal taxes will push the total tax up more. Between my wife and I we pay about 30% total for being in middle class and covers employeement insurance and government pension, taxes, and health care, etc. That covers everything except the consumer tax (ie sales taxes).

I really don't think we pay anymore than you guys when you factor in your health care costs with your taxes.

Well talk to Grover, without his permission it won't happen.

You don't pay 14% tax on everything in the grocery store. The only things that are taxable at the grocery store are tobacco, alcohol, and a couple other items that escape my memory.

The cost of living here is much much higher. Food costs more ($0.77 / lb for bananas, $0.99 / lb for gala apples, meat is expensive at $5+ / lb for sirloin steak).

Heating the home is pricey too ($20 / month in summer, and $300 / month in winter). Gasoline was $1.07 / litre this morning.

On top of all that, the average Calgary home costs over $470,000 to buy.

sirloin $5 is expensive?

This is nonsense. Nothing but myths. The Canadians I know don't wait forever for care and wouldn't trade their system for our EVER!

in return for the usa to have access to the tar sands in alberta and in the future to the canadian arctic...........

Probably also doesn't hurt that Canadians don't involve themselves like we do in other countries affairs??? Canadians view our governmental leaders since Reagan as "political Neanderthals."

we do too, James. In spite of the claptrap you might have read in the politically owned media.

Explain?

I have a 10 year old American made car with 150k miles on it. It still runs as well as it did the day I got it. American made cars got a well-deserved bad rep for quality in the 70s and 80s, but they've improved considerably. I've been very happy with the 2 American made cars I bought in the 90s and 00s.

I will agree that the US auto companies really screwed up in anticipating changes in market demand. I've been considering buying a new car for several years and up until recently there were no cars that combined good gas mileage with attractive styling. They all looked like bread boxes on wheels. Bleh!

That's another thing about people in Europe, they are not as hate-filled as many Americans, such as Rob Scan. When I lived in the UK and Germany, I never hear such sentiments directed against fellow citizens.

Tell you what, Rob Scan, I'll leave America too. Then I'll sit back and live a good life while you sink in your schitthole singing God Bless The USA all the way down. And I'll bet lots of other people would join me as well!

Jim, no one is holding you back.

VV, Oh yeah, Rob's post is just spewing hate when compared to nobsartist. [rolling of eyes]

Just rememeber that moving to EU, you now get the same harassment (for US people) with visa as USA have used against people like me for decades, who was asked to come here! I have several Scientist friends who got the same harassment to come here the same way(asked)--Rest assured there is "0" personal advantage to come to USA from Denmark!-strictly scientific, non politial reasons! Min Wage in DK is $ 21.55 an hour, thus the reason they come here on vacation, it is for them as we used to think about going to Mexico!!

Thanks, east coast. Don't mind if I do. Anyone else care to join me in leaving the Schithole States of America to east coast and all the other Fauxheads?

@nj reader,

I agree. Like George Carlin used to say, the problem with the American Dream is you have to be asleep to believe in it...

THE “GREAT AMERICAN NIGHTMARE” ---- 9/28/2011
The Economic disaster that is now hitting the US and most of the World is a necessary step for mankind's Noetic-evolution. --- Why? --- I just read, at newswine, that 93% of Americans still believe in “The Great American Dream”. If you are one of those believers you must first be convinced by a painful “US Economical Cataclysm” (and great VIOLENCE) that it cannot be realized, because it is an “extreme case” of a duality and must turn into “The Great American Nightmare” instead . However, if you are in the other 7% bracket you are innocent and will only become “collateral damage” with the same result. --- Sorry about that.
Just say after me: Eli Eli Lama Sabachani?----- My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?
--- Don’t know if I can explain this to you in this short post, but let me try. Consider how this “Dream” got started in the first place. Most immigrants from Europe were “poor peasants” all being subject to the mercy of their powerful Land Barons and the Government suporting those. What lured these peasants to America was a good chance to become land owners themselves and also as rich and powerful as their previous suppressors; basically reversing their status. It’s a complete role reversal and if one side of this duality is considered evil, so is the other. To day, this wishful dream-process has become true for only 1% or 2% of all Americans, namely for the Millionaire stockholders and their CEOs, who are now saying:”Let them eat cake” to all the rest of us who are again being the “suppressed peasants” of old times. We have “recreated” these old times by clinging to our dream-like illusion.
Famous words by “Alexis de Tocqueville”, 1835: “Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

BODHISATTVA (by Dick Suthpen). The silence is broken by the s-s-wish of the Samurai sword severing illusions - and it rolls across the floor leaving a bloody trail of -- ~--~~-^_~~ -- ~--~~-^_~~ truth

And when Obama had a blank check where were the jobs? Instead we got an untested bail out for the health care industry. Get real. The man had a chance and he frittered it away instead of securing the tax base. Not saying that the Republicans are any better or that any will get my vote but Obama is no more a solution than anyone else.

untested? Look at MA, they didn't sink into poverty or collapse like was predicted (hell they still pay more in federal taxes then take from them).

blank check? Super majority is a fallacy, they didn't have the time because of sickly congressmen (not that it was their fault or they are bad people, but it was what it was, the independents were fairweather friends and some of the dems were out sick, even if they weren't the super majority MIGHT have existed for maybe a month or two tops).

Obama ain't perfect, and he's got a lot of work to do (good job on the recession appointment) but I'm also sick of pure red republicans posting about how bad he is and then adding the final little seal of "but I hate the other side too" to make themselves look bipartisan. So sick of hearing from independents that have voted red for the last 10-20 years.

I'm sick of Obama apologists claiming anyone who criticizes him is a "pure red republican." You may as well call me a racist too since your ilk like to jump to that conclusion. I've never been a member of the Republican party and I have never supported a Republican candidate.

Adious!!!!!

It is much more expensive to live in Canada and Europe. But you take much too narrow a view of "quality of life". Particularly in Europe, people have a life - they are not slaves to the corporate state. They are not deeply worried about getting health care, having a pension when they get older, getting paid a decent wage. Take a trip to Germany, you'll see solar power everywhere. They have a terrific transportation system. Environmentalism is supported by everyone, including conservatives.

Why? Their multi-party political system is much more advanced than the US, people have much more of a say in their government. Another reason is strong unions, in Germany unions have representation on many corporate boards.

Bottom line: you get what you pay for (read taxes), which is exactly why the US is in such terrible shape. People in Canada and Europe understand the need to invest in their own people. BTW, I've lived in the UK, Canada, and Japan. It's not paradise - if all you think of is the price of things like crap you can buy from Walmart - but it's certainly high quality.

VV, I will agree with you that the two party system is a failure. It's unfortunate that most people keep voting in the same two parties and not getting anywhere. The two parties need to keep us fighting in order to maintain their stranglehold on Americans. It can be changed if people are willing to take a chance.

Multi-party system? solar power? Those are all elitist issues. Quality of life comes down to bread and butter. If I can't cloth my kids, and put food on the table, and still have a disposable income, my quality of life is reduced. Who wants to be squeezed out of every last dime. Just look at the statistics. Canadians on average earn only $500 less per year than their US counterparts, but their purchasing power is $7,700 less. That's huge. You can live in the US and still have money to enjoy things and the cost of doing those things is much more accessible. I'm not even talking about big things like vacations. Just basic things like going to get a pizza with my kids, eating at McDonalds, or even going to the zoo. I've lived in all kinds of extremes (food stamps, medicaid, etc.). I've even at times had to sell blood twice a week for an extra $50 just to make ends meets. But the difference is that those $50 went a long way. I can be towards the poorer end of the spectrum and still have more disposable income (measured in terms of what it can buy) in the US than if I am towards the richer end of the spectrum in Canada and Europe.

I've also lived in Chile where electronics and gas cost twice what they do in the US, but food and housing is so cheap that you can still have disposable income. I would take South America over Europe any day for just that reason. You don't have the pressure just to meet your basic needs like you do in Canada and Europe.

where in the US do you get a gal of milk for $2?

The Southwest. For example, Google shows that Safeway in Arizona has an advertised special of $1.57 per gallon.

Yeah, kinda like Americans going to Mexico for "cheap buys". What a load of rubbish. Quality of life in Canada equal and often exceeds our "strip mall", suburban, must have a car, God gave Americans free gas quality of life and the rest of that nonsense. People all over the world aren't craving to dream the American Dream. We are merely a nation amongst nations. We are going to have to re-invent ourselves pretty quickly to keep pace. Ask the Chinese or Indiana where they think the future is?