War against Iran ? WHY NOT ?

• WE NEED THE REINSTALLMENT OF MANDATORY DRAFT.

With our politicians'offspring at the FRONT LINE, SUCCESS IS A SURE THING. Lets do it.

This war will never take place, just a bunch of no good for nothing BS. Next in line please !

i was working with an irianian once who wrote on our gas cart for airplanes @hawthorne airport in 1983 death to america. Well what has changed in the last 29 years F@#%k them.

I never saw anywhere that Iran threatened to close the "Strait of Hormuz"....Only that they could easily, if they wanted. This story is growing, just like a "gossip column".

Iran might get a few good shots in, but it wouldn't be but a day or two, before the U.S. and Israel, (just looking for an excuse) would annihilate them.

It's all Poppycock and the world knows it. From what I've seen of thier "military might", it looks like all the hardware Russia dumped, when upgrading 30 years ago.

President (alpha-bit soup) Ahmadinejad, has been quiet on this subject so far. I look forward to listening to him spew about it. He has to "keep face" with the brainwashed Iranian people....

If Iran can get us into another 10 year conflict, that should bankrupt us right out of existence. Maybe they are up for the fight

It's all Poppycock and the world knows it. From what I've seen of thier "military might", it looks like all the hardware Russia dumped, when upgrading 30 years ago.

You dont need military might. Afghanistan has withstood a Soviet occupation, and now a US occupation, and still ticking. We dont have the will to finish the job.

ever think the speculators started a bunch o crap for the media so oil will go up, oh, just like it did, freakin obama is a useless piece of crap and if the people didn't see the lies he laid on them in his first election shame on you, everyone knows he can not do or promise anything unless it gets passed the house or congress. HOPE THE HELL YOU ARE NOT THIS STUPID THIS TIME AROUND,.

Michael, Michael, Michael!!! Dude you need to calm down. The only way President Obama is going to lose is if the repubs get a creditable candidate to run against him, so far they don't have one. I'm sorry your so uncomfortable with a black family in the "white house". Get a grip, seriously!!

Who would that be Barlow? The Dems would call Einstein a retard if he were running. The Republicans do the same thing. Ron Paul is a change you can count on, not just diarrhea of the mouth.

A potted plant could beat obamy!

The threat isn't to us directly, but to our allies in the ME, to the price of oil and thereby to the world economy, and to an escalation in hostilities that could spread out of the region.

Iran will win this eventually. They'll get nukes and pass them on to their terrorist buddies. Regime change is the only thing that will stop them and no one has the stomach or money for that these days.

drew, and we KNOW this!!! We are just playing international manipulative political games. Thanks to the internet, the whole World also knows this

That is where Bush really made the mistake.. They should have presented evidence that it was Iran that was linked to the Terrorists and invaded Iran.

@STEVE

Presented what that Iran is funding arming and training Hezbollah and Hamas?

The Iranian government has been arming and funding terrorist groups for years.

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,134839,00.html

Iran is no match to US power in any aspect of its existence, the Iranian regime knows it, so does the money loving Chinese and the Russians.

Another opinion poll from msnbc and fox?! Well, here we go again! If the Israelis want a war with Iran why don't they just do it themselves? Why using our nation, our people and money to wage a war for the Zionists? Let me guess, hmm... they don't have the balls themselves? The only thing they're good at is to set up banks and then rub people, history has shown that, repeatedly. They never want to get their hands dirty, that's why they're in politics, wall street and Hollywood!

Iraq was too close to Israel, now it's Iran's turn due to its 'missiles' which can reach Israel, after Iran its Pakistan, who's next? Bangladesh? Does Israel need ''extremists'' to stay alive? to keep together? to get the aid and funds? to create more extremists like Taliban and Alqaida? Them being such a 'bright people', why would they need our funds and aid? Is it due to their paranoia? A paranoia which they've built up for thousands of years? what is the real solution? I suggest therapy and co existence. As far as I know the has been more than half a million Jews in Iran for centuries, even now over 30 000! so the problem is not the Jews but the Zionists, a small group of people who would need some serious therapy to be cured and to be taught co existence.

@MAXIMILLUS

It's not about a direct war with the US it's about proxy wars and guerilla tactics.

Once again the 92% of US Citizens that NEVER Served in the US Military come on Newsvine and post (derogatory expletive). Why don't YOU go sign up right now if YOU want to do something.

Just because you have no knowledge of Missiles, posting things about everything and everything.

Do me a favor, if you want to start something wait about 7 months so that I can go back on Retirement again as "Too Old" to ever be Recalled to Active Duty ever again (and again and again).

Time to step up to the plate Generation X and Generation Y, this is all yours, US Civilian Control over the US Military (US Military Ordered were the US Civilian Politicians that you hired tell us to go to enforce whatever.).

alwaysanother,

Every since President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy the did that with the Oil Wealth of Iran. So now after spending all that Oil Wealth Iran is starting to do something.

Unlike all those supposed "Experts" that get US Military Killed. They need to change their mentality to figuring out how the Iranians can do what they are saying they can do, then look for the indicators first using Satellites, then RQs, next step Intelligence Agencies Scientific Teams, then Intelligence on the Ground, finally Intelligence Agencies Scientific Teams attached to US Military Asymmetric Warfare Teams to independently verify the information.

These supposed "Experts" ASS-U-ME that the Iranians will block their own or the Chinese and Russian Shipments of Oil. Instead of just stopping or strategically sinking the Saudis, Kuwaitis, etc. Oil Supertankers (to block only the traffic of the Saudis, Kuwaitis, etc.). These supposed "Experts" also believe that the Iranians have NOT bought using their Oil Wealth the Current Generations of Weapons Technology from the Chinese and Russian Federation (including High Tech Stolen from the US, that is not even in production for the US Military Yet), the difference between a 2001 "Cellular Telephone" and a 2011 Smart Phone; example: the current generation Iranian land based long ranged supersonic anti shipping missile batteries, specifically designed to kill USN Aircraft Carriers by evading USN Countermeasures and USN Screening Ships (you can thank the Chinese and Russians for that); these are NOT the same older technology as those stated in the article by Anthony Cordesman at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Just like Anthony Cordesman not stating the Iranian Fayette type frigates, the Stealth Submarines aka Ghadir class, thanks to the Chinese the undetectable rocket propelled rising mines, thanks to the Russian Federation for the undetectable non-magnetic, free-floating, and remote-controlled mines, as well as the pressure, acoustic, and magnetic mines. To compare what happened during the 1980-88 Iran Iraq war (wrong dates by the way), and believing that Iran did not learn from their Mistakes will just get US Military killed using USN Military Equipment designed during the Cold War (1990s, all Projects/Programs eventually become outdated, no matter how many modifications you make; example a Polaris submarine attempting to launch a Trident Missile, so you build a new submarine, the Ohio Class.).

2010 the North Korean copies of the Chinese copies of the USSR SS-18 ICBMs are shipped thru Bejing China to Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. In 2011, Iran proved that this is a true ICBM capable of attacking any target on Earth using Earth Rotation to traverse the distances, by putting a monkey into Earth Orbit, orbited 15x.

2010 Iran tests fires the Iranian IRBMs, similar to the US Pershing II with a third stage and no range limiters, they also launch their new current Generation ABMs to successfully intercept the Iranian IRBMs. These missiles can reach Europe. In response the Russian Federation deploys their ABMs to former USSR Nations. December 23, 2011 President Obama backpeddles on his previous decision against the deployment of land based US ABMs at Europe with the deployments to Romania, as the USN Aegis ABMs are too short ranged, meaning one possible intercept over the targeted Nation.

2010 Iran buys the current Generation Russian Federation intergrated Anti Aircraft Missiles and the current Generation Russian Federation ABMs to protect their Land Based Long Range Supersonic Anti Ship Missile Batteries and Nuclear Facilities. Iran test fires a Long Ranged Supersonic Anti Ship Missile and destroys a small target boat in the area where a USN Aircraft Carrier would have to be to launch an Airstrike (without mid air refueling) against the outer Iranian Air Defenses. 2011 using these current Generation Russian Federation Air Defenses the Iranians detected the US Generation V Stealth RQ-170.

I really like (sarcasm intended) these Analcysts, that have no skin (their own arses) on the line, like Newsvine Poster DavePat, by the way DavePat once again I proved you wrong (your previous posts), from my posts ever since President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy gave Iran Carte Blanche to do anything (and they did) without US Interventions.

Since most do not know what is happening with US Ally Turkey and Northern Iraq (Autonomous Kurdistanis Region). For the longest time Fundamentalist Islamic Iran has been directly supporting the Main Islamic Jihadist Training Camp (about a hundred thousand Islamic Jihadists) with Iranian Military Advisers, Iranian Military Trainers, Weapons, Munitions, Funding, etc. producing trained:

Worldwide Islamic Military (aka Jihadists, Terrorists) consisting of the International Al Quada Franchise (AQ, AQY, AQS, AQI, AQAP, AQIM, AQ Somalia, etc.), Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFGaka "the Libyan Rebels"), Army of Islam Pakistan (not the Pakistanis Military), Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Gaza, Hezbollah (Party of Allah, Palestine, Lebanon, Gaza, Libya, South and Central Americas, etc.), HamasForeign Fighters (Palestine, Libya, Gaza, South and Central Americas, maybe Mexico, etc.), Islamic Chechen Foreign Fighters, Muslim Brotherhood (Alexandria Egypt), Kongra Gel/Kurdistan Worker's Party (KGK/PKK), Jemaah Islamiya (JI), Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), Fatah al-Islam (FAI), Ansar al-Islam (AI), Ansar al-Sunna (AS), Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS), Al-Shabaab, Ansar al-Islam (AAI), Asbat al-Ansar, Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group), Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B), Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM), Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban of Afghanistan, Islamic Jihad Union (IJU), Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed), Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI), Kata'ib Hezbollah (KH), Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous), Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ), Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM), Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK), Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC), Harakat-ul Jihad Islami (HUJI), Jundallah, etc. recently added Haqqani Network (Pakistan) to the US Department of State List.

In 2010, US Ally Turkey Attacked the Main Islamic Jihadist Training Camp at the Autonomous Kurdistanis Region. These hundreds of thousands of Islamic Jihadists trained to conduct Asymmetric Warfare could not withstand the sheer force of the Turkish Military (Airstrikes, Turkish SF, Turkish Military, Turkish Armor Battalions, etc.) in the open. So most of them fled. The Muslim Brotherhood to Egypt to Overthrow US Ally President of Egypt;the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group to Libya to Overthrow US Ally Gaddaffi (why President Obama's Islamic Jihadist Prisoners were at Gaddaffi's Prisons);Al Quada Yemen to Overthrow the US Ally President of Yemen;the Al Quada Afghanistan, Taliban Afghanistan accompanied by the Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Pakistan (not the Pakistanis Military), Al Quada Pakistan creating more pressure against the US Ally Government of Pakistan; the Hamas Foreign Fighters, Hezbollah, Army of Islam Gaza, most of the Islamic Jihadists of the Palestinian Organizations returning to Palestine and Gaza as the "Peace Flotillas". Al Quada Iraq, etc. force the Iraqis Government not to negotiate with President Obama. Al Quada Syria creating problems.

As trained in Asymmetric Warfare, get the people of those Nations to fight for your Cause(s), that is the "Arab Spring", "Egyptian Revolution", "Yemen Revolution", "Loss of Iraq to Iran", "Syria's current problems", "Libyan Revolution", "Peace Flotilla", etc.. As they say takes one to know one, we are trained to do the same thing in US Military Asymmetric Warfare, the Insurgency and Counter Insurgency Warfare part, seemed pretty obvious to us what happened (is happening).

Result: US Ally Saudi Arabia is now surrounded by Enemies (Allies of Iran), Iran gains Strategic Access to the Suez Canal, Iran gains Egyptian Mediterranean Ports closer striking distance to the Crusaders (Europeans), closer striking distance to their sworn Enemy US Ally Israel, Yemen's Ports, Libya's Mediterranean Ports closer striking distance to the Crusaders (Europeans), Libya's Oil Wealth, Iraq's Oil Wealth, Iran's Increased "Sphere of Influence", more negotiating power with the Chinese and Russian Federation, increased pressure against US Ally Government of Pakistan, significant problems for US Ally Turkey, etc.. The Islamic Jihadists also got about 20,000 shoulder launched SA-7 anti aircraft missiles by Overthrowing Gaddaffi, possible use shoot down Commercial Airlines, since their bombing attempts failed.

And to whoever believes that we have the Iranians surrounded, how about looking up the unclassified information as to what is actually at those US Military Bases.

And ever since the President Obama April 2009 US Military Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN, the 5th Fleet is not what it used to be. Same with some of the USAF Airbases. Same with President Obama's Reduction In Forces (RIF) of 27,000 US Military Personnel.

So, yes, all on you Generation X and Generation Y to fix this sh!t, most of my men, women, and myself will be Retiring Again with no more Recalls to Active Duty. And no our Replacements were never trained, as ever since the President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military, our Replacements were never trained (takes decades of training and operational experience, so if you start at age 18 to 20 you will be age 35 before you are ready, not including Languages (College Bachelors) and Cultural (College Bachelors)).

David475776--Take a hike no- it- all. Your men and women? You are the biggest fake on the net.

tactical45 - David475776--Take a hike know- it- all. Your men and women? You are the biggest fake on the net.

So I am a know it all, WHICH MAKES YOU A KNOW NOTHING.

My Men and Women that survived this long are my dysfunctional family that I never had.

And if you want to say fake, fine, I really do not care about your child like name calling as YOUR FAILURE TO DISPROVE THE FACTS THAT I POSTED.

Like I said before after less than 7 months and I could give a F**k less what happens in the "Middle East", Africa, Asia. As most of us will finally be able to go back on Retirement again.

And if you do not want to know about the mistakes we made fine, repeat the same mistakes and see if you survive (the enemy learns, and you don't want to). I do believe some just might want to know.

By the way a bare minimum amount of research will reveal that I am telling the truth about obscure Facts that usually only are known by the participants.

I also stated my ulterior motive for even bothering posting on Newsvine, regardless of asinine comments like yours, as a Unofficial Record of what happened, just in case.

Remember Needa, before you start thinking of the people of Iran as our enemies.

Remember Russia and China said to us...stay out of it!!! If you "Carpet bomb" Iran...you get more trouble than it's worth and move the time scale up for WWIII. Dumb A$$ people with fingers on Nuclear weaponry and the brains God gave a bandy rooster.

China doesn't give a crap about Iran, and Russia only cares because of petroleum. Neither would go to war with the US if Iran decided to start something foolish. Tim Dunn is correct, it's the silly Iranian regime who is the problem. The average Iranian doesn't want war and actually likes the West & the US.

The problem in the ME is Israel, not Iran. Israel is a nuclear power who tells the US who to fight for them. Iran has oil - this means unless they get nuclear power, they will be invaded, another puppet regime installed (like the US and Britain did before) and their oil will be divided among the big oil companies - so Iran has no choice - go nuclear and be feared or have your people slaughtered. And remember - Iran is the only country whose citizens rose up IN DEFENSE of their country against the sanctions being imposed.

Irene,

Iran's hate for Israel goes far beyond Oil. Iran has made their own bed. There country is saturated with oil and would make a good booty for any oil dependent country, but, Iran's reckless nuclear program is more about missiles and the threat of aggression than reactors.

MRZ - Irene is correct here. Yes, Iran has oil, but as the country is virtually surrounded by US bases (see map) , the "threat of aggression" is from the US and Israel - not the other way around and a sovereign country should be allowed to protect itself.

http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-surrounded-by-us-military-bases-2011-12

The US rubber stamps everything its ally killing machine (Israel) does, Iran has no choice but to protect itself. Iran's program is not reckless - the Soviets and other nations with nuclear capability are helping them with their top specialists- the US is not the only country that can help or has the "right" to make a nuclear weapon or reactor.

Did you notice the other MSNBC article today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45832198/#.Tv81siPwa2A

The United States has reached a deal to sell $3.48 billion worth of missiles and related technology to the United Arab Emirates, a close Mideast ally, as part of a massive buildup of defense technology among friendly Mideast nations near Iran.

Who is the "aggressor" .... oh, right the trillions in debt, meddling, wanna be Master of the Universe, known as the US.

So move to Iran if you don't like the USA

Now that was an ignorant thing to say...

@danna

It's not about "liking Iran" it's about the truth.

The government of Iran is horrible they treat people like dirt AND WITH THAT SAID they are encircled by the US.

A policy of encirclement being used on Russia and soon China.

The United States has been messing with Iran for 50 years and the Iranians know it.

I don't blame them for being paranoid.

Russia

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12600

China

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/16/china-us-troops-australia

Iran

http://www.irdiplomacy.ir/en/news/71/bodyView/16486/Iran

For anyone that thinks Obama is worthy of a nobel peace prize I simply ask you to open your eyes.

whatever the regime is, it is important to distinguish between the dictatorship and its people! Iran in the past has been a good ally in ME and its people (majority). Back in 2006, a survey showed over 80% have expressed their willingness to have good relations with US, the CEO of that company is still in jail. In fact if it wouldn't have been because of the sanctions and pressures from US (Zionists in power), the dictators of Iran would've been overthrown long before the Arab Spring. The Iranians are as proud as any other nation, a foreign intervention would not help their desire for freedom. The regime knows it, so does the Zionists!

Voice an opinion that doesn't favor current USA policy and you are invited to move to Iran. Nice. I can remember the the old bumper stickers - "My country, right or wrong". Any intelligent comment that doesn't go right along with our hawkish policies and you are some sort of unpatriotic traitor.

It was our foolish, blind, unquestioning attitude that got us into this situation. Terror originating in Iraq, Saddam's weapons of mass destruction - all lies. Are the Iraqi people better off without him? I'm not so sure. Would Iran be the regional bully they are now with Saddam in place? Probably not. I don't think he would have thought twice about bombing them if they threatened his interests. He wasn't a good guy, but in taking him out of power, we have really upset the balance of power between the two countries, and ultimately what kept Iran in check.

And what about Israel? How do we benefit from them as an ally? Yes, the Jews were terribly wronged in WWII, and the western world needed to come to their aid. But now we stand behind this hawkish country with little to gain from the relationship, and everything to lose from their oil rich neighbors. Be honest - isn't it about the oil? Less support of Israel doesn't mean we hate Jews, it means we are going to follow policy that benefits the USA. Maybe with less western support (read that as us selling them fewer weapons and less support of their hawkish policies), they might have to find a better way to keep the peace in the Middle East.

Maybe at some point we could just mind our own business. Think about your own neighbors. Which ones do you like most? The nosy, opinionated pains in the butt, or the ones you know you can count on if you need them and otherwise mind their own business. Maybe we should be the neighbors that mind their own business, but are ready to help when needed. We grow poorer, our middle class suffers, our debt grows, yet we can fight unfunded wars and operate bases around the world. We better start to think, a little more than "move to Iran" when a thoughtful opinion is voiced.

Once again those that do not know about China, the Russian Federation, Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, Israel, the Arab League of Nations, Amin Al Husseini, Iraq, Oil Laundrying, Asymmetric Warfare, President FDR's US Military Defense Industrial Complex, Weapons Technology, Conventional Warfare, etc. and too darn lazy to do the Research posting feces, and surely would rather believe crap written by non participants based on information from other non participants, instead of even reading information from those directly involved since the Iran Iraq Wars.

Really makes me wonder about the overall capabilities of the cognitive reasoning skills of the defective products of the Failed US Education System.

Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget..............You said the US is not the only country that has the "right" to make a nuclear weapon.

Actually in the 1960s there was a pact with 5 nuclear countries to determine who should or should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons in the future. North Korea, Israel, India, Pakistan, and Iran have not been sanctioned by the original 5 countries to have these weapons. You are most likely too young to remember or too stupid to know this.

I think the Iranians are more scared of President Obama than they were of President Bush... Bush was a hot headed cowboy which attracted hatered from people around the world as well as from our allies...

President Obama (No Drama Obama) is intelligent, patient, and will talk with you... But you better not screw with him, cause he doesn't screw around... He'll have the Seals coming after you or a drone with your name on it...

I really like the way this president operates... Walks softly but carrys a big stick...

Yeah right. Obama sure has everyone wetting their pants.

Good ol muscle flexing boys, with no brain. No wonder this country is in such @!$%#.

Yes, Americans love war and death, unless they happen to be US troops, in which case they donate to and vote for RON PAUL! The only voice of reason in the R lineup right now.

This warmongering culture has to END. It's embarrassing to be called an American these days.

Sure we can have a war as long as we get our troops exclusively from the politicians and from the 1 percent.

We have worn out our troops from the 99 percent and the non-politicians.

Watch the HBO Special "WARTORN 1861 - 2010".

I truely don't think that "Americans" love war...just our Government that thinks were to stupid and don't know how to wipe our a$$es without their help. I know I don't like war...do you?

Hey EX

It's embarrassing to be called an American these days.

I'll buy you a One-Way ticket to Iran, anytime......

Oh get off it, glw...you know exactly what EX was saying. He loves America like we all do, he's just tired of fighting senseless wars, wasting billions of dollars, breaking our bank, and our elected "leaders" killing our sons & daughters!

Hey GLW

Maybe you can volunteer some of your family members or yourself to go die for oil. Come on man make us proud.

To many people are trigger happy, "bring on the sanctions". Then you all will bitch about gas at 5-6 a gallon when it is your faults for supporting these actions. These sanctions will do nothing other than cripple a weak economy and drive a deeper wedge between us and the middle east. What a bunch of chicken little's we have become as a nation. Many sit here in their easy chairs watching this play out and cheer on the team as if it is a football game. There are no winners in these wars only dead bodies and financial ruin.

Iran has been killing Americans since Beirut '75-'76. They were behind many IEDs in Iraq, killing and wounding many of our soldiers. Now they are poised of slowly take over Iraq. They will attack Israel for religious reasons, to bring about their version of Armageddon. So oil aside, we fight them now or later. This is not like the stupid Iraq war, we had no reason to attack Iraq, except for Bush and Chaney's insanity. Iran has been killing Americans for many years, not the Iranian people, they like the West and want to be free, it's the Iranian's religious government that's the big problem, they are in a world all their own!!

Liberals don't love America, they are in love with themselves.

Barlow very good job in summing things up? Not since Hitler`s Germany has a pyscho finatic regime. this one hiding behind cleric skirts and yelling Allah is great! Viva Mohammed which is the equivalent of Heil Hitler and long live the Aryan Nazi 3rd Reich.Curious that Hitler that perverted mentally ill pyscho didn`t look like a tall blond Aryan! And the Ayatollahs are about as religious and spiritual as the Creature from the Black Lagoon! And this perverted Islamic Revolution has committed terrorist attacks on 6 continents.I personally was at the 2 sites where they blew 2 bulding to smithereens in Buenas Aires.I`m afraid this regime will bring GREAT ruin to their country just as Hitler did to Germany.I think they are as self destuctive and as insane as Hitler was.They continue to give the whole world the finger just as Adolph did ...Iran should be stopped now.not after they do the equivalent of invading. Poland .They`ve been lying ang huffing and puffing as Adolph did right up until Munich when they handed the Nazis the Sudetaland on a plate. They are trying to buy more time to put the finishing touches on a nuke bomb.There is no negotiation with the Ayatollahs any more than there was with Hitler.Best to use some bunker busting bombs to destroy their nuke facilities now.And if Iran tries anything funny..they know it will be the end.. and maybe the end of Iran as a nation.BUt this huffing ang puffing genocidal Iranian Reich has been holding the world hostage for 32 years.Israel alone could probably finish off Iran alone,but they shouldn`t have to .This is a problem for the whole world.I hope the U.S Europe and many more countries join in.Saudia Arabia said "cut off the serpents head which is Iran" We can try to wait a little longer and attack the rev guards and other groups but I don`t think it would help.THis is Germany in 1935.-6 not 39 Let`s not wait until 39.LIke you said Iran is in a world of its own A Nazi type fantasy of blood,rage genocide and paranoid pyschopathology .The stakes are MUCH too high to wait much longer!!

@various people who think that Iran just started attacking americans......

Obvious history eludes you.

http://www.democracynow.org/2003/8/25/50_years_after_the_cias_first

Now I am no fan of the current blood thirsty Shiite nuts running Iran but I do understand why they have been at war with the US for 50 years.

You need to understand the enemy both foreign and domestic.

bicfj - We have worn out our troops from the 99 percent and the non-politicians.

What are you talking about. 1/2 of 1% of the US Citizens are currently Serving in the US Military. Of that 1/2 of 1%, we are the 3% that are US Military Asymmetric Warfare, 97% of the US Military are still Cold War Era Conventional Warfare Forces.

92% of US Citizens have NEVER Served in the US Military.

And you wonder why most of us have a sh!tty attitude, especially those of us that got Recalled to Active Duty and constantly change the dates of your departure or return to the US.

Thank you for your service bicfj

SVA CM2

expat7............It's time for you to re-patriot....You have been gone too long

Barlow-1919963

War mongering scoundrels always find lies and propaganda for war. Always.

Thanks for showing us just how pathetic the hawks are in their excuses for attacking the Iranians.

I paid my dues in the 70's lynyrd, how about U???

And Fox is the Peaceful Network. GWB's Network. He was a coward also,I didn't see him in Nam with me. Cheney either.

Sure we can have a war as long as we get our troops exclusively from the politicians and from the 1 percent.

We have worn out our troops from the 99 percent and the non-politicians.

Watch the HBO Special "WARTORN 1861 - 2010".

You would think classy Obama who says he has the interest of its people would simply just give another one of his "inspiring" speeches to Israel stating that if Israel entices a war with Iran, Its on them. Then we can see how ballsy they really are. Again, saving lives, and our economy. Sadly, the military complex holds much of Washington.

Incompetence in Congress and White House. Can't they keep us from war? Instead they draw us closer and closer to it.

I want to see the Congress put on a scow that goes back and forth through the Stait of Hormuz. This is the perfect time for The State Of Israel to commit another USS Liberty treachery and plunge us into war for them.

Just keep listening to Faux and Rush. Its the repugs & baggers that love war, its big business, just ask Bush, Cheney, Koch Brothers(they should be tried for treason for selling out to Iran). At least Obama finished what Bush start, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" Now tell me who the coward is.

the gov,

funny i dont see anywhere in that article that says "lets go to war"... maybe its YOU that should stop warmongering

funny i dont see anywhere in that article that says "lets go to war"... maybe its YOU that should stop warmongering

I agree, me-2565723. The article simply reports that Iran, not the White House, has issued a release regarding impending tests of "long range" missiles. It goes on to detail the rising tensions surrounding this development and the suspected continued quest of Iran for nuclear weapons.

This is not "warmongering", as the the gov terms it. It is reporting the news and if the gov does not feel such developments are news worthy, then I would say he (or she) is living in a dream world.

Both the United States and the entire world is faced with a dilemma regarding the proliferation of nuclear weapons, which utilizes technology that is now some 60-plus years old, and no longer secret. We have an obvious choices with regard to Iran's suspected nuclear ambitions: ignore them or confront them, and if so how, through diplomacy, sanctions, espionage, or direct military action.

These are not easy choices to make, whether you are President Bush, President Obama or President Rick Perry (it'll never happen).

People like the gov, who believe even to notice what is going on is equivalent to "warmongering", are electing to stick their heads in the sand as opposed to facing the world.

Hey 'Gov': "warmongering"/"crony" ??? Are you a former KGB propaganda copy writer? Or just reading too many 'communist manifestos'? Why don't you go back to writing for Al Queda (in your former native land)?

"Government"--I'll bet you the whole ranch on the 2012 election-This Texas Independent, and former Republican , is forced to vote for the only one in the race who represents ALL Americans-POTUS Obama ! Better to hold my nose than be forced to hold onto my wallet

Heya 'The Government' could you at least share with the rest of us the awesome drugs you are clearly blazed out of your mind on? K thx.

Perhaps "The Government" would like to review the article and see who the sources are for this information? Or perhaps "The Government" would care to watch other sources to see that MSNBC and the Obama administration is not the source of this material.

um, this is a Reuters story.

The Gov, You sir, are a moron!

Do you ever even look at the source of a story or just read the headline and go off on your Fox News rant? Pull your head out of your Fox and you just may learn a thing or two, like the source of a news article.

The, a republican would have done the same thing (or even worse). I noticed a little bit more logic in this current article by msnbc about Iran (then previous articles by msnbc concerning Iran). They printed the intelligent non-violent diplomatic work Iran is doing with the UAE, but it still appears msnbc is being sucked into the political games we are playing with the media to demonize Iran.

FACT: Iran is NOT a threat to ANYONE

Sorry, correction: I meant EAU. (European Agency)

Kevin is an idiot if he thinks Iran is not a threat to anyone. And I suppoose he thinks Al Quaeda and Osama bin Laden and all the other loony-tunes, fanatics who ought to be shot like the rabid aniimals they are are "not a theat to anyone." The only person who could really believe that is a troll foor those same Mid Eastern excuses for human beings who haven't produced a useful or beatiful item for the rest of the world in centuries. Time for them to become among the extinct who have "loong" outliked their usefulneess to their own scoeity as well as the rest of the world.

Can thegovernment (above, comment #5) wake up from his dream state? Typical TiVo blogger, America is the bad guy, everyone else is such a sweet innocent lamb. Get real dude, Iran is who we are talking about! They have been waging war in some fashion or another for four thousand years. This is not propaganda, this is the active and verbal phase of an escalating conflict with will lead to war. Don't put this on America's shoulders just because you have some Gibraltor-size chip on you shoulder about Obama and the government. Look at Iran's recent past, they are itching to wipe out Israel and become the super power in the Middle East. Sit back and watch, you will end up paying for it though.

roger, WHO isn't itching to get rid of Israel? Even we want them to change their international political ideology and practices

And if Iran has such an obsession to conquer other countries, why have they not acted on it for the past 40yrs. ?

@dman; I do not see it(warmongering) either. Just looks like regular reporting to me.

If there were any good republican candidates I'd agree. But there aren't. So Obama stands a huge chance of re-election. I too voted for Obama. I too am very disappointed on many things he's done: placing Tim as treasury secretary. Keeping Ben as Fed Chairman. Medical bill was more of a perk to the insurance companies and still doesn't resolve the uninsured problem. Economy is still massively weak and bank regulations still haven't been put back to the glass-steagall rules. QE1 and 2 have only caused commodity prices to inflate while wages are still massively depressed both making mad inflation. And there's no massive energy program to get us onto other forms and fuels for energy. Our trade policies between China and several other nations still are at the detriment of the US consumer and laborer and he seems to be convinced by the rest of the world that the reason is a term globalization and that term scares him from doing anything about stupid trade agreements that harm the US so the race to mimic the bottom laborers and thus bottom consumers of the world continue with now 42% of the US on food assistance "food stamps" and growing. States have cut back on education and several other services in a desperate attempt to ensure they stay solvent. Yes, this guys weak. But the other republicans so far seem even worse.

Oh well, the world's suppose to end in 2012 right? LOL!

The Gov is such an idiot, spouting his republican BS. Unlike Bush and the republicans with their unfunded war and the loss of over 4000 american men and women, the only war Obama got us into was Libya, and guess what, not a single loss of an American life. Go ahead Gov, lets hear more of your garbage.

David Nelson-922104,

Why do you keep spouting NONSENSE.

Written Proof: US LAWS (with US Congressional Appropriations), it is NOT the US President's Job to create US Laws, that is the job of US Congress, it is also the Job of US Congress to find the money to fund the US Laws US Congress Creates. IT IS NOT THE US PRESIDENT'S JOB TO DECIDE WHICH US LAWS TO ENFORCE:

US LAW, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" with US Congressional Appropriations, as demanded by President Clinton during his State of the Union Address to a joint Session of US Congress, 1998. Justification WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 2 "Findings" of US Law H.R.4655 (scroll down to Section 2 "Findings"):

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts

It was believed by President Clinton that Overthrowing President Hussein would "Liberate the Iraqis People". This is when we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Teams) were sent into Iraq to buy hundreds of thousands of Shiites as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow President Hussein. After this failed, as they were turning each other in for rewards, and being apprehended, tried and executed as Traitors, with President Clinton stating, "Dictator Massacring His Own People".

After all the lesser means of US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" (money still being appropriated by US Congress, 1998 to 2011, the US Law does NOT go away until the US Law is Accomplished). US Congress uses the Final Option, the US Military, by DECLARING WAR WITH IRAQ, with US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations. The only valid excuse for a US President to NOT enforce a US Law, is if there is no money (US Congressional Appropriations).

US Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution:

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/wariniraq/a/jt_resolution.htm

Laura-3089574,

Oh, yeah, he really Finished that, the US and US Allies lost all the Iraqis Oil to Iran's Allies the Chinese and Russian Federation, 2010.

US Ally King of Saudi Arabia, now surrounded by Enemies, "President Obama gave Iraq as a gift to Iran on a Golden Platter".

President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, that gave Carte Blanche to Iran to do anything without US Interventions (And Iran did).

david-475776 you just keep drinking your republican kool aid boy, drink it all down and maybe you'll believe your own garbage that your spouting.

Why do you keep spouting NONSENSE.

Dave - you keep attacking those whom have stated the obvious, the the War in Iraq was an unjustifiable and reckless endeavor, pursued at a time when our nation had other priorities. As justification you continually cite H.R. 4655, which I have read multiple times, most recently from the link you supplied.

It does, in its findings, declare 'that the Government of Iraq is in material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations', in 1998, but does not specify in what manner. Nor does it in authorize the use of the U.S. Military in any manner.

From your link:

SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act .

...and in Section 4:

(a) AUTHORITY TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE- The President may provide to the Iraqi democratic opposition organizations designated in accordance with section 5 the following assistance:

• (1) BROADCASTING ASSISTANCE- (A) Grant assistance to such organizations for radio and television broadcasting by such organizations to Iraq.

• (B) There is authorized to be appropriated to the United States Information Agency $2,000,000 for fiscal year 1999 to carry out this paragraph.

• (2) MILITARY ASSISTANCE- (A) The President is authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and military education and training for such organizations.

• (B) The aggregate value (as defined in section 644(m) of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961) of assistance provided under this paragraph may not exceed $97,000,000.

...so, if you were tramping around in Iraq, setting "hundreds of thousands of Shiites as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow President Hussein.", it was a completely outside the bounds of this law.

As to the belief in 1998 that Saddam possessed an illicit weapons program, I admit that this was generally believed, both by our intelligence community and by the public at large.

But, one does not go to war in 2003 based upon intelligence gathered in 1998, particularly when it is contradicted by more current data. To do so would be the equivalent of attempting to navigate around Boston with a 1948 round map, and then wondering why you could not find Scollay Square.

Oh, yeah, he really Finished that, the US and US Allies lost all the Iraqis Oil to Iran's Allies the Chinese and Russian Federation, 2010.

Our exit from Iraq was in accordance with the agreement signed between their government and the U.S. under the Bush Administration. Did you think we would stay there forever?

Perhaps you though we could maintain Iraq as a client state indefinitely. But we cannot remain there for all time and there is no reason to believe its central government will be any more ready in 2012 or 2013 to both govern and defend its territories. If Iraq has been gifted to Iran, the event occurred 8 years ago, when we removed the one strong man capable of standing up to Iran, Saddam Hussein.

I can find no reference to a "Chinese and Russian Federation". Please provide some link to documentation, lest i believe it is but another of your contrived or assumed facts.

President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, that gave Carte Blanche to Iran to do anything without US Interventions (And Iran did).

That is complete and utter bs. Right or wrong, Obama has followed pretty much the same policy as Bush with regard to Iran, constraining U.S. actions to diplomacy, economic sanctions and (by Obama at least), covert intelligence activity.

What did Bush do that was so much more effective? Oh, I know, allowed North Korea to obtain nuclear weapons.

So keep chanting your "H.R.4655" mantra over and over again. It seems to reinforce your belief system. You may want to avoid actually reading it in its entirety. It might provoke unwanted thoughts.

David Nelson-922104 - david-475776 you just keep drinking your republican kool aid boy, drink it all down and maybe you'll believe your own garbage that your spouting.

Sure, keep trying to attempt to deny the facts (WRITTEN US LAW).

dman-353357 - Dave - you keep attacking those whom have stated the obvious, the the War in Iraq was an unjustifiable and reckless endeavor, pursued at a time when our nation had other priorities.

I never indicated that the War With Iraq was Justifiable, killing our former Allies from the Iran Iraq Wars. That is what happened as demanded by the US Civilian Authority over the US Military:

In Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address, demanding US Congress pass H.R.4655 into US Law, Justification Weapons of Mass Destruction:

Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world", and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.

This is where that Weapons of Mass Destruction thing came from NOT Bush.

dman-353357 - ...so, if you were tramping around in Iraq, setting "hundreds of thousands of Shiites as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow President Hussein.", it was a completely outside the bounds of this law.

Try again, that was 100% legal according to H.R.4655, just like Operation Desert Fox was 100% Legal according to this US Law. And as I alluded to when in doubt attach US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces to SAD, that then becomes a US Civilian Operation of the President's Own Executive Branch Intelligence Agency. How do you think the "US Military Advisers" (aka Green Berets) ended up at French Indochina, as well as earlier "Air America", the US Transportation Aircraft, US Military Chafee Tanks, the USAF Fighter Pilots providing CAS at Dien Bien Phu. This not something "new", just attach US Military to the President's own CIA, if the sh!t fails just blame the CIA, not the US President.

dman-353357 - But, one does not go to war in 2003 based upon intelligence gathered in 1998, particularly when it is contradicted by more current data.

The Official Declaration of War With Iraq was the 2002 Iraqi War Resolution, starting with Operation Hotel California. As far as "current data" are you going to rely on the information from potentially hostile sources like Jordan and Pakistan, as that was all that was left after President Clinton Gutted the US Intelligence Agencies, that created Intelligence Blackouts of entire Regions, especially the "Middle East" and Afghanistan. As that was the situation when we infiltrated into Iraq.

dman-353357 - Our exit from Iraq was in accordance with the agreement signed between their government and the U.S. under the Bush Administration. Did you think we would stay there forever?

The Strategic and Tactical situation at Iraq Changed ever since the bad decisions of President Bush; but, that did not mean that President Obama had to follow President Bush's screw ups.

And you can believe I REALLY after all these screwed up years of consecutive tours (divorce, loss of child custody, near bankruptcy (from the divorce), etc.) that I would really like to just leave this mess for Generation X and Generation Y to fix (and I will in less than 7 months). Translation: I HATE WAR, covert overt does not matter.

dman-353357 - I can find no reference to a "Chinese and Russian Federation"

Do keep up with what happened; Russian Federation's Lukoil and Soyuzneftegaz; China's Sinopec Corp, Sinochem Corp, PetroChina, CNOOC Limited and Zhenhua Oil.

dman-353357 - Obama has followed pretty much the same policy as Bush with regard to Iran, constraining U.S. actions to diplomacy, economic sanctions and covert intelligence activity.

Does not matter again the situation changed. Sh!t sometimes just creaps slowly forward here at the Middle East; but it does not remain static. Who would you fear more a shoot from the hip cowboy gunslinger, with his warmongering vice president (that shoots his friends); or a legal academic with his draft dodger vice president.

dman-353357 - So keep chanting your "H.R.4655" mantra over and over again. It seems to reinforce your belief system. You may want to avoid actually reading it in its entirety. It might provoke unwanted thoughts.

It is quite different when you are involved than just reading a piece of paper, as when the US Law becomes a US Military Operation, as directed (clarified by the US Congressional Defense Appropriations Committee, and the Congressional Intelligence Committee, as to what you can and cannot do). So, yes, H.R.4655.

Well, Dave, in the spirit of starting off the new year on the right note, I'm going to start by conceding a point. It is possible that, if you term the active solicitation of anti-Saddam assassins and insurgents as "military education and training", as outlined in section 4(a)(2)) of HR. 4655, then yes, one could argue that this law did directly authorized such activities. But that is the full extent of what was authorized. No direct commitment of U.S. troops was either required or authorized by this law.

I will also step aside from the question of "Declaring War", versus "Authorizing use of Military Force". While the two actions are distinct under international law, these differences probably do not materially affect the actual actions of our military forces.

So much for the spirit of reconciliation.

I never indicated that the War With Iraq was Justifiable, killing our former Allies from the Iran Iraq Wars. That is what happened as demanded by the US Civilian Authority over the US Military:

In Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address, demanding US Congress pass H.R.4655 into US Law, Justification Weapons of Mass Destruction:

I am surprised to hear that you feel the Iraq War was not justified. Somehow this central belief of yours escaped by attention. Well, I too, share this belief, but not your reason for believing so. Saddam may have been our ally in the Iran/Iraq War, but so too was the USSR during WWII as were the anti-soviet insurgents in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Yet our WWII alliance with the Soviets did not prevent us from opposing them in Iran, in Europe, or in Cuba. Nor did our support of the Mujahadeen rebels fighting the Soviets, prevent certain elements of these groups from forming or supporting Al Qaeda. As you say, sh't has a way of creeping forward, and our ally today is not necessarily our ally for all time.

No, I was against the Iraq war simply because it was a high risk undertaking and was not in our vital interests.

dman-353357 - But, one does not go to war in 2003 based upon intelligence gathered in 1998, particularly when it is contradicted by more current data.

The Official Declaration of War With Iraq was the 2002 Iraqi War Resolution, starting with Operation Hotel California. As far as "current data" are you going to rely on the information from potentially hostile sources like Jordan and Pakistan, as that was all that was left after President Clinton Gutted the US Intelligence Agencies, that created Intelligence Blackouts of entire Regions, especially the "Middle East" and Afghanistan. As that was the situation when we infiltrated into Iraq.

I'm having trouble following your reasoning here. You state that Clinton gutted the U.S. Intelligence Agencies, but, by implication, you seem to feel that relying on the 1998 assessment of Saddam Hussein's weapons program, derived by a "gutted intelligence" community, was somehow rational.
Beyond that, in 2002, and continuing into the first 2 months of 2003, U.N. weapons inspectors were traveling about Iraq and finding nothing. As a source of intelligence, this is a far cry from relying on "on the information from potentially hostile sources like Jordan and Pakistan".

Yet the Bush Administration systematically portrayed Iraq as an immanent and dire threat, on a scale which both justified and demanded immediate military action. This was a position which was not even justified (or authorized) in 1998. It was completely nonsensical in 2003.

This is where that Weapons of Mass Destruction thing came from NOT Bush.

Once again, Clinton may have made certain assertions in his 1998 state of the Union Message, which history have shown to have been false. But that does not excuse Bush for his systematic misrepresentation of the known facts, IN 2002 AND 2003.

I recall Dick Cheney too, speaking publicly of known meetings between Mohammad Attar and a high-ranking member of the Iraqi intelligence agency, even while U.S. intelligence community had found serious credibility issues with this claim.

dman-353357 - Obama has followed pretty much the same policy as Bush with regard to Iran, constraining U.S. actions to diplomacy, economic sanctions and covert intelligence activity.

Does not matter again the situation changed. Sh!t sometimes just creaps slowly forward here at the Middle East; but it does not remain static. Who would you fear more a shoot from the hip cowboy gunslinger, with his warmongering vice president (that shoots his friends); or a legal academic with his draft dodger vice president.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what has changed in Iran. Iran was rumored (ok, generally believed) to be seeking nuclear weapons, since the 1990s, if not longer. Yes, they are probably drawing closer to success. But the same cost/benefit analysis is at work today, as were in 2008 (or in 1998): Without over military action, Iran probably cannot be dissuaded from seeking nuclear armaments, and such action, necessarily comes with some fairly heavy risks. A tactical air assault on Iranian nuclear facilities may or may not succeed in destroying them. Such an attack may also cause sufficient disruption in the oil markets as to send the fragile world economy into another recession.

As to whom I would fear more, I think you know my answer.

In conclusion, I would still say that you over emphasize the significance of H.R. 4655. This law made certain assumptions based upon the best assessment of the data available at the time. But this in no way justifies actions taken 5 years later, particularly when more current intelligence did not support these 1998 findings. So Bush, not Clinton bears the deepest blame in my book for the Iraq War. While I hope, and now expect, that the ultimate result of this war may turn out far better than my worst fears, this in no way justifies the disingenuous manner by which this war was sold to the American people, nor does it lessen the extreme cost, in terms of lives, money and opportunities lost.

Kevin: Have you forgotten about their war with Iran during the eighties. They wanted that as much as Saddam Hussein did. They were drooling at the opportunity to help their Shiite brothers (the vast majority of the population in both Iran and Iraq) and spread the radical revolution. And what about the support for Syria all these years? What about their involvement in Lebanon and Palestine. As I said, they have been waging wars in one way or another. Enough said!

expat7,

how would sanctions against Iran be an act of war???

In theory, international law today allows only three situations as legal cause to go to war: out of self-defense, defense of an ally under a mutual defense pact, or sanctioned by the UN.

We do not have a mutual defense pact with Israel or anybody in the middle east.

I don't think the U.N. supersedes the sovereignty of the U.S. constitution. The U.S. constitution lays the responsibility for declaring war with the Congress, who are directly elected by the people, and nobody else. As most are aware, the President is not directly elected by the people, and does not have constitutional authority to entangle us in warfare.

As the saying goes, that was then, this is now. The past cannot be changed, Your solution is we wait while Iran perfects its bomb, and then wait as component parts are"lost" and somehow end up in the hands of groups approved by Iran, as "enemies of the Great Satan" , then detonated in New York, London, Paris, or Berlin? It will be just a matter of time until that eventuality occurs. Islamic extremism trumps all else. The death or mortal wounding of hundreds of thousands of infidels is simply too attractive to pass up and would be a great triumph (unofficially of course) for the Radicals in absolute control of Iran.

This does not apply to the people of Iran.

Obviously it also does not apply to the people of Pakistan, North Korea, or Israel either.

how would sanctions against Iran be an act of war???

Let's see.... if China, France or Mexico would blockade the US and restrict commercial shipping, the US would respond how?

I'll give you one guess. Warmongering Fox News watchers would get it right easily, and in this case, I would agree.

expat7 ~ it's a bit deeper than your initial perception I'm afraid. Warmongering does not stop at Fox News. One poster above called MSNBC a warmonger. CNN does it. It's rampant. It's called propaganda, and we are inundated. We should not be moved by propaganda, we should honor our constitution in all respects.

expat7-

all of that and you still didnt answer the question.....how would sanctions be an act of war... i think you have proven on several occasions that you really dont have a full grasp of the situation and should go back and do a bit of research on the matter

@freedman1,

Unfortunately, however, our Constitution doesn't adequately address the issue of religious fanaticism. Nor was the document written during a time when we (the human race) had access to such wonderful and lovely 'toys' capable of destruction on a scale that has never been seen before. Kind of a 'Catch 22'. Do nothing and respect the sovereignty of Iran and 'hope' they act like good lil kids or mount a unilateral (or not) pre-emptive strike/attack designed to cripple their military/defense infrastructures. Either way, a slippery slope indeed.

Defender, The Constitution adequately addresses the issue of warfare. It does not matter if the current bogeyman is communism, fascism, terrorism, or absurdism. Our constitution allows only Congress to bring us into a war. Not the United Nations, not NATO, not Boeing Corp., or even the President. The Constitution is and was a brilliant document. To circumvent it is folly of the highest order.

A miserably costly and ghastly folly at that.

In truth, to defend America means to defend the Constitution.

freedman,

In truth, to defend America means to defend the Constitution.

I agree wholeheartedly. My original point was just restricted the area of religious fanaticism, and its participants, who may or may not recognize accepted political doctrines of the secular world. I'm not advocating a course of action one way or the other but I'm sure that you and I could agree that there are some people in the world who, if given the opportunity, would exploit it in the name of their religious zealotry. And it's that exact issue that is causing the quagmire we see today. Do we strike? Do we interfere? Do we not? Etc.

But I do agree with you about the brilliance of the Constitution and the inherent dangers associated with deviating from it.

Oh, come on. The CIA has a right to dictate who gets elected in these democratic countries. It's part of what makes America the great country it is. They hate us for our freedoms, you know.

The reason Iran hates the US is because BigSpooky told them so. Hey spooky, get the tinfoil off that history book, it's blocking your ability to read.

Ok Spook, I'll follow your advice and do some research.

The Shah (Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi) (and look it's spelled different) came to power in 1941 (hmm, no CIA in 1941) during WWII. He overthrew the non-democratic government of his father (another shah). Hmm? exactly when did they have a democratic government spooky? His father (Reza Shah Pahlavi) was the shah from 1925 to 1941. He came to power by overthrowing Ahmad Shah Qajar, the last Shah of the Qajar dynasy. Hmm, still no democratic government showing. Ahmad was shah from 1909 to 1925. He came to power by overthrowing his father Mohammad Ali Shah who was shah from 1907 - 1909.

Anyway it goes on and on with each shah overthrowing the last one. Didn't matter if it was family or not, they just killed and moved in.

Democracy is a completely unfamiliar concept to this culture. They've been operating on the biggest dog wins, the rest get eaten, for thousands of years.

Funny how you ignored the 1953 overthrow in your analogy there RR. This is where the "blowback" came from. The incidents you mention happened without external meddling, the later happened with our influence and interference. THAT is the real history RR which you chose to dismiss and then call Spooky a tin foil hat person. Wow what a comment, oviously "you can't handle the truth."

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état (known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup) was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project........wikipedia

And then the people of Iran suffered some of the most brutal oppression ever seen in the area up until the Shah was overthrown.

It would be great if our nation (and others) would wake up to the fact that there are inviolable spiritual laws, you know, like Karma. We're still awaiting our payback for using biological weapons of genocide against our Indian brothers, but it will come. What goes around comes around. And we are responsible for what we do.

plotinus,

another great point in American history...brought to you by the republicans

Exctly right. The Brits got wind that Iran had decided to nationalize their oil so that their country would benefit more and the Brits quickly notified the US. A puppet regime was installed and after years of abuse the Iranian people overthrew the puppet and they have not trusted the US or Britain since. Iran is not the aggressor - the US and Israel are screaming for war to get at Iranian oil - that's whats going on. And the CIA is in Iran right now with war chests of money to pay protesters to stir up things enough to have the UN (also controlled by the US) to come in and get control of the country and their resources.

All I can say is that one reaps what one sows. If the fruit has a bitter taste then it was from bad seed.

THe problem in Iran is the government that in place is just as morally corrupt and self serving as the Shah. They are hiding it behind a veil of religious extremism.

You are so right, tgraf. Where can one look in history and find a completely perfect, faultness nation or even human being for that matter. We are TODAY trying to do, most of us, what we can to survive and even be happy in a cruel world of worse human beings than any other animal on the planet. Most of the terrorists and terrorists in training today probably never heard of Irans tepid test of the waters of democracy back in 1953, not to mention proavbly not even being alive back then (it was 58 years ago, almost 59, you knw. If they DO know it's as a useful bit of propaganda apologist ranting like soome of you suspect "American" patriots (I use the word sartcastically) do...all fun and games to some of the elite who don't have to face the reality of what our government and the rest of them are doing to ordinary people who just want to live their lives.

You need school rliberto, "I think you need to "got" back to school Will".

I done got a dern gooder education than you Rilberto. When one makes a troll comment such as yours it would be good if you could at least bad it up with correct grammar.

Betcha none of the above are native-born Americans. They dont get all stuck in the toils of grammar and cumbersome thought processes like the furriners.

The "toils of grammar". That is a great line, even if it reflects a lack of education. I will use it in my high school English classes to great effect. Thanks.

PS: while there is no grammar check, one can easily install a FREE spell check program onto their computer. Writing is different than speaking in that grammar, capitalization, and punctuation help the reader figure out the message the writer is trying to get across. Your post is practically incomprehensible due to "the toils of grammar" interfering with your message. Still, thanks for the great line.

If the use of hyperbole in the written word brings incomprehension to you, I suggest you not tackle Mark Twain in your high school English classes.

It would only drive you nuts, Jimee.

I thought "toils of grammer" was great. But me not be no english teacher.

Right now...being a Hippy would be a good idea. Love not war...Peace and love...and a few doobies to mellow everyone out.

Too cold outside to be a hippie right now, wait a couple of months until spring comes and it warms up a little.

pyrate,

Yeah, maybe some of those arabs will share some of that good blond hash?

Is that like corned beef hash?

Sure, Jimee,

Go load your pipe up with some corned beef hash and fire the dude up! Let us hear back how it went.

Well they have a bit more than that in terms of naval power, but its still nothing the USN can't handle in a week at most.

Iran is pushing for war because the little short dummy President wants the 5th emman to come back and take his "Rightful Place" amoung the chosen ones and destroy the infidel.

If the US and Israel go to war with Iran, every other country will be pulled into it. And there will be more bloodshed that we have ever seen. Russia and China should quickly get into Iran and make a pact to protect them in exchange for building bases in that country. That is what the US does. Then maybe the US would close some of their hundreds and hundreds of bases all over the world and cut the MIC and the pentagon's budget in half and start to rebuild our country again. Right now war is so profitable that all the Repubs are screaming for war to keep bringing in profits to the defense contractors. Meanwhile the middle class is becoming the poor class and children go to bed hungry because their parents have no jobs. The US is in a mess - we need to get rid of the pork and help our people survive. We now have more protesters than any other country and more human rights abuses - we have secret prisons, renditions, torture, the military can arrest anyone (including citizens) and hold them indefinitely - without trial. We are doomed if we do not turn around.

Alright I'll just address the first half of your post since the second half spiraled into an inane, off-topic rant that is so full of inaccuracies and outright bull@!$%# that its not worth my time.

First of all, Russia and China are absolutely unwilling to go to war with the US over Iran. At the very most, they would maybe provide secret logistical and technological support (a la Vietnam, but on a smaller scale). And thats a big maybe. And neither of them would be willing to go anywhere near Iran if the Iranians were the aggressors, which they are making themselves out to be. Closing the Strait of Hormuz or mining the Persian Gulf harms China alot more than it harms the USA or Israel.

Secondly, in the extremely unlikely event that there is a war over Iran, it would not be "more bloody than we have ever seen." Depending on who fires the first shot it will be the USA + UK + Saudi Arabia/UAE/other Arab Gulf states against Iran and maybe Syria (which is not looking likely considering the current situation in Syria), or the USA + all of NATO + the Gulf Arab states against Iran. Neither of those configurations look good for Iran.

Now scamper off back to your bong and let the adults talk.

I think the largest naval vessel they have is a destroyer and only a handful of those. But....they have several Kilo class submarines that if used properly, could cause problems for shipping in the strait.

@realist,

And even if it did come to war (which it won't, at least not any time soon) Iran would stand zero chance. Most of their hardware is old and the Fifth Fleet + the UAE and Saudis could probably clear the air of the Iranian Air Force by themselves.

Let's not forget the U.S.S. Cole incident. Wasn't exactly a high-ranking piece of modern military equipment used to bomb our ship. Just a few fanatics on a small tender boat. And just 19 fanatics using commercial planes (again, non-military) on 9/11. There are more ways to fight a war than by just using 'cutting-edged, military technology'. Reference U.S. involvement in Viet Nam and the Russian involvement in Afghanistan.

realist-1670590,

GET REAL. Who do you think the Chinese and Russian Federation Get most of their Oil from. Can you say Iran and with the US Loss of Iraq, Iraq.

Go read post#1.21.

irene-2033073 - Then maybe the US would close some of their hundreds and hundreds of bases all over the world and cut the MIC and the pentagon's budget in half and start to rebuild our country again.

Go study History. It was President FDR's US Military Industrial Complex that got the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression, 1939, before US Entry into WWII. Ever since the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of previous Depressions were removed 1999 and 2000, the US Military Defense Industrial Complex the employs nearly a hundred million overpaid expensive US Citizens has been keeping the US out of a Great Depression.

Just to shut all the naysayers up, I want President Obama's Automatic 10% Defense Budget Cuts to occur, with the resulting one Million overpaid expensive US Citizens of the US Military Defenses Industrial Complex thrown on Unemployment. It is because these overpaid expensive US Civilians getting a "Fair And Living Wage" that the US Military pays $300 for hammers and expensive USAF Toilet Seats.

Your 50% US Military Defense Budget Cuts would allow us to throw the almost hundred million overpaid expensive US Citizens on Unemployment and replace them with below minimum wage US Military Personnel (more US Citizens joining US Military after the almost hundred million become unemployed).

And since you talk about rebuilding, how about researching what percentage of the US Military Defense Budget are internal to the US, as the US Army Corps of Engineers Projects and Programs. The last time the US Military Defense Budget was chopped, the US Army Corps of Engineers did not have money to upgrade, modify, retrofit, rebuild, build new, etc. Levees at New Orleans before Katrina; also no money for the Dredging of Rivers and Streams resulting in the previous and current Floods, there was also no money for man made water reservoirs resulting in the droughts.

American Defender,

And didn't we beat them aliens by sending balloons with explosives up their butt? Thought I saw that on TV so it's gotta be for real.

realist-1670590,

Something you might be interested in:

1984 Movie Countdown to Looking Glass.

They just got the Nation wrong, Oman instead of Iran.

And that was not a mistake went they say F-18s.

So, you might want to research what the current US Military is using as "Modern Weapons" (I already know the answer).

david-475776. You're overestimating Iran's capability to wage a non-covert war. The Cole was a destroyer that was sitting in port in peacetime. There is no parallel between that and the USN operating in war-time conditions out at sea.

Also, I don't know where you heard that Russia gets most of its oil from Iran but that is not the case. Russia gets most of its oil from Siberia. If I recall they have the eighth largest oil reserves in the world, they don't need Iranian oil. and as for the Chinese, yes they get alot of oil from Iran. But if Iran starts a war in the Persian Gulf, that would cut China's oil supply. The Iranian Navy and Air Force (or whats left of it at this point) would not have enough time to selectively pick which tankers to sink before American air power hits them.

You seem to think that I'm advocating a war with Iran. The people on here who are saying "lets just bomb them and be done with it" are idiots and thats not what I'm saying at all. My point is that a war with Iran would be expensive and costly in American lives, but there would be no doubt about the outcome. Iran would be on its own and would not stand a chance.

Space Cap'n,

Thought provoking.

Bring it on? We want it all to stop, we're broke. What, you want to BORROW MORE MONEY from China?

And.... this is why I am broke :(

And tax breaks for the BILLIONAIRES

(erased comment)

Come on Tryreality. The tax breaks are for EVERYONE.

You just have to be a Billionaire to take advantage of them.

If you want war - leave! That's right! Leave - go to Israel - they are terrorists who love aggression and practice it every day. We American do not want another war for oil.

Hey Irene,

Are the multitudes of people that have been caught on U.S. soil while plotting terrorist attacks to be considered terrorists like the Israelis? I guess that OBL, KSM, and all the rest of the Al-Quaeda infrastructure weren't 'terrorists' or 'loved aggression' in your eyes? Here's one for ya....why don't YOU move to a Middle Eastern Islamic country and take full advantage of the over-abundance of womens rights there? Or do you like hiding behind your computer whilst exercising your First Amendment Rights?

Good Night Irene <----- couldn't resist :)

Modern missiles? Are you being serious right now or making a bad joke?

Scuds are about as directional as bottle rockets. Iran would receive even shorter shrift from the US military than Iraq did - as long as we don't try to occupy Iraq, it would be a turkey shoot. But before you think of Iranians as an enemy, remember poor Needa.

Anti Missile defense systems dude. Additionally, our navy is not cold war era. Just so you know.

Iran has been supplied with new technology from Russia and China...can't say much for the quality, but the quantity could be quite a bit and Russia wants to see how well their stuff holds up against the Americans without being involved...China is a whole nother story. If China can collapse America in war and economically...they become the world leaders and the ones to dictate to the rest of the world...like we have done.

And remember that only one Scud ever really did anything substantial, and that was pure luck. No, we have all kinds of defenses, counter-measures, etc. We do make allowances and preparations to get hit, you know...

Yep, any minute now he's going to waggle his finger at them. That ought to do it.

He doesn't have the gonads.

God, you haters are really pathetic.

He doesn't have the gonads? You mean the president that instituted the surge in Afghanistan? You mean the president that went into Pakistan and took out bin Laden? You mean the president that took out al Alaki? You mean the president that increased the use of drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

Don't let reality get in the way of your insipid comments umgawa.

By insipid do you mean asinine or ignorant?

They may have been speaking about the President that won the Nobel Peace Prize.

"I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace." — George W. Bush

no one wants war with anyone. the various countries you mentioned just have leaders who pander to the masses and feed their fears. although i do agree with your assessment of russia the rest seems like you've been playing too many video games.

You sound like you've been living under a rock. "No one wants war with anyone"?

That would be totally stupid to do...too many idiots with their itchy fingers on the launch buttons. If you really want to end humanity on Earth...go ahead and push the button...then others will do the same thing and cause a chain reaction in Earths atmosphere, ending life as we know it. Somebody out there is looking for an excuse to launch and blow something up...OOOHHHH looky there at that pretty mushroom cloud!!!....Did I do that?

Calm down Tom...I'll talk to a few folks down south affiliated with the NRA...they'll deploy soon to the Persian gulf in their bass boats and a few deer rifles...maybe some quarter sticks of dynamite as well just to take care of their 'destroyer' naval vessel. Shouldn't take more than a few days...I'll make sure they deploy with a few cases of beer and a bottle of Jack.

Chi town... with all due respect to your Veteran status (if you really are one):
You're a jackass.

No, Chi town was trying to be funny. Tom is the jackass. Nuke them? It's clowns like Tom that talk about nuclear weapons like it's some sort of fire cracker. Once the genie is out of that bottle you'll never get it back in, and the whole world would be in the sh*t!

@mike

Do you know how many open air Nukes have been set off in the world by France, England, Russia, China and the biggest offender the United States?

We are all still here more or less you should be more worried about Nuke power plants melting down in Japan, Canada, Russia and the United States the radiation they put off is far more constant long lasting and a major source of global radiation.

Yeah, but you gotta admit, one good nuke over New York would put that place out of business for one hell of a long time. On the bright side it would fix our wall street problems.

Wilbur,

What you are saying about cars and oil dependency are accurate. I agree.

Regardless, we are now facing a reckless Iranian regime that is a terrorist state and a nuclear power want to be. Iran knows what they are going to get if they press on their nuclear program that is more than just for research purpose.

Now they have a long range missile test coming up, may have more lined up in their planning room, who knows. Soon, they will be able to put a nuclear warhead on that long range missile. They warn of blocking Hormuz to challenge the sanction, that's the obvious sign that they are on the path to building nuclear weapons and desperate about it.

Looking back, when they say they are going to do it, they will. If they press on, we and the rest of the world are going to press on as well. When that happens, there will be a sanction from the world, Hormuz will be blocked by Iran, at that point, we are going to dismantle the blockage, and Iran will fight us. And a war will break out. This might just be a scenario, but the way I see it is that diplomacy has never truly worked, it's going to play out in more or less a month of two.

Punishing Iran militarily is something we can definitely do. I don't like wars for all the obvious reasons. Punishing a reckless terrorist regime who want to be a nuclear power is something I will completely support, even if it means war.

God bless America. Happy new year. Peace on earth.

We sink a ship or three in the strait. Iran fires several missles 'in self defense'.

One of those missles has a "faulty program" and lands in Tel Aviv.

Where are we now?