Sanctions should be seen by Iran as an act of war by the US against them. Iran should be preparing for a confrontation that the US is likely purposely provoking. Closing the strait would be a legitimate response against US aggression.

I hope that confrontation does not occur but the US can prevent it by not inflicting sanctions against Iran. It will be our fault if Iran is forced to close the Strait of Hormuz.

@ Polka14

Indeed, the Japanese felt the same way when the US cut off their oil in the late 1930's over the Japanese invasion of mainland China. It's one of the many actions that led up to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I have a great swelling of pity for the Iranian people. The entirety of the US armed forces is geared towards dealing with an established military force that utilizes technology and logistics to operate effectively. In a toe-to-toe engagement, Iran will find themselves in a worse predicament than even Saddam as the threat of cutting off oil through the Suez would have the entire Western World bringing force to bear to pry it back open like a sickly clam.

Considering Iran's support of a proxy war with the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the continuing and increasing threat of a nuclear armed Iran...they need to be giving the US fewer reasons to go to war with them, not more.

Israel is already ready-to-go, and they have been for many years...it's been the US keeping them at bay.

Things could get very ugly very fast

forced to close the straight of hormuz? Yeah, for about as long as it takes our navy to blow their asses out of the water. These are empty threats. I know it, you know it, Iran knows it and our goverenment knows it. If by some fantasy land logic the Iranians think they can prevail then their navy will end up on the bottom of the persian gulf along with the submerged paleolithic landscape.

The straight of Hormuz lies partially in Oman territorial waters and partially in Iranian (undisputed) territorial waters. It is the section that lies within the Iranian waters that we might be concerned about. Iran could easily close those shipping lanes by sinking a few ships - never mind the ecological disaster that would entail - and really affect the world supply of oil. The statement by the U.S. Navy and Pentagon about unacceptability of closing the Strait is, in itself understandable, but irresponsible. It would have been much better to not say anything, just smile and say nothing! In the meantime, be prepared for whatever might follow! When you are, and IF you are, the best, you do not have to say anything about you being the best, don't you?

I prefer mine with a hint of radioactivity.

Nicely stated Ruken. I was thinking along the same lines.

Where did I hide that neutron bomb? (searches for neutron bomb).

We could use more oil. (kidding)

Who put the military in charge of United States foreign affairs? Making foreign policy statements is beyond the Constitutional authority of any branch of the United States military.

When the commander 5th fleet tries to assume the role of speaking for the United States - it is time to put a whole lot of scrap steel on the market ...

Iran actually plays smart in this case. They know US will attack them sooner or later, so they want it to be at the worst time for US. After 10 years of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with slow economy and population tiered of wars, US is not in he best shape to pick another fight. Confrontation in the Hormuz will lead to skyrocketing oil prices, which in turn will hurt US and West. In the meantime what a great opportunity to justify and complete nuke production.

If all the Billionaires in the US got together and funded research into something like cheap Hydrogen from water our energy problem would be solved and we could care less about the Middle East and its problems. Unfortunately the Billionaires are too greedy to do anything.

Polka14,

so I would think that Iran having nuclear weapons would only prevent conflict.

Wow! Can I buy some of whatever it is you're smoking?!? Thanks for your amusing input.

Jessica,

It's called an EQUALIZER...and logically, Isreal will stop throwing stones at Iran the minute Iran has proven they are armed with nukes.

You presuppose that Israel has thrown any stones at Iran. I've searched through all of the stories coming out of Israel and Iran and I don't see one word from Israel mentioning it would destroy Iran unprovoked. While I've read many coming out of Iran stating they would destroy Israel. Iran supports Hezbollah with military training, weapons, and financial support. Would you not consider that a rock thrown by Iran at Israel? Kids these days.

Right on Jessica! Hitler had just as much right to "meddle" in other nation's affairs as anyone. It's a good thing all the rest of the world played "fair" 80 years ago when Hitler and his ilk were "meddling". Really, WW II was no big deal. And Stalin had every right to "meddle" in Germany and the rest of Eastern Europe while the world stood back in the name of "fair play". That whole Cold War thing was really overblown. Admittally, America sometimes gets it wrong, but do you really want Iran "meddling". America does not invade, occupy and remain. We invade, occupy and leave (mostly) - think Germany, Japan, Italy, Iraq and hopefully soon Afghanistan. So, by all means, let Iran "meddle" away. After all, it's only fair. I for one appreciate your fair-mined insight.

If Iran actually tried this they would need glass bottom boats to see their Navy because the US would sink any Iranian ship that tried to interfere with commercial shipping. The US would also level every Iranian missile installation along the coast to keep them from trying to launch anti-ship missiles. Any action like this would be a monumental mistake for Iran and would likely result in the complete collapse of their economy as well as the collapse of their government. With oil funds cut off they would immediately see major problems feeding their people. This would cause the people to rise up against the mullahs and throw them out on their asses. There is already a lot of tension between many of the military leader, the civilian government, and the mullahs. A major crisis like this would definitely cause the whole thing to erupt. The military would not even try to stop the people because their families would be rebelling with everyone else and many of the military leaders would turn on the mullahs as well.

Jessica,....wow. Settle down or the teacher will have to take away the sharp scissors again.

In fact, that is why Iran (and others) saber rattle every once in a while. Its a distraction. The Iranian people have come close a few times to getting up enough head of steam to tople that government. The Iranian government has to keep an enemy like the US, becuase Iran going to war is the only thikng that can bring their country back together, as nationalism rises in conflict with other countries. Just after 9/11, even Bush haters came together and suported the President. In Bosnia, as much as they hated Milosoviic, when we started bombing them, the people started siding with him again. In Iraq, the "insurgents" may have actuall dispised Saddam, but after being invaded, that nationalism came to the front and they defended him.

2012 we will see military conflict with Iran so say the experts in that region. Panetta is also changing is rhetoric. The sanctions thus far are being absorbed in Iran and aren't stopping the their nuclear ambitions. There really is no other choice but to ratchet up the sanctions.

"It relies on oil exports for about 80 percent of its public revenues."

This is the ONLY way to stop Iran in their tracks. Remember that NOBODY in that region likes Iran. Most countries are a bit tied up with their own upheavals to give Iran any support. Keep in mind that if Iran gets nukes, then so will all the other countries want them because again, NOBODY likes Iran. They are the bully in the schoolyard.

Stop looking at all these conflicts from the perspective of the US. Start reading up on each country's composition and priorities. So the Saudis are pretty ticked off that the Muslim Brotherhood will now be running Egypt. Why? The answer lies in the 1st Gulf War.

i hate to say this but as the 2012 election is near and Obama is not looking good with a weak economy, i'm afraid the Iran conflict is going to lead to military action. it would secure another term for Obama.

in this next election, the banking elites would have great difficulties trying to convince Americans that the new front-man (whoever that may be) is going to solve any problems regardless of how much "change" he/she promises.

China has started using the Yuan to trade with Japan. the Domino effect will spread to Russia, India, S. Korea, Japan and all of the countries in the region. OPEC countries will follow and all the fiat dollars will flood back to shore, causing massive inflation and the end of the U.S empire.

the question is not whether this will happen. the question is WHEN.

a "preemptive strike" against Iran, however, will help delay the inevitable. mind you, Iran has started trading in the Euro many years ago, which is why the U.S has been "watching" its nuclear program closely. Iran should heave learned Iraq's lesson. too bad it gambled on the economical state of the U.S not knowing that America still has one more unjustified war left in it. if the U.S is going to fall, might as well go out with a bang.

This would be a sad day for all parties involved.. Sure they could make things a mess but their people would end up taking the brunt of the agony.. Our Navy will take casualties but with no doubt the Iranian navy and air force would cease to exist.. A solution to this is to let Russia and China have this sandy thorn and I bet stability would return.. Foreign policy is run by Hillary so Obama should get -0- for credit or blame unless you like spanking the puppet..

Ok, Mark, go easy my friend. What exactly is the U.S. "empire"? Which of our colonies and conquests will fall first? Perhaps California? Maybe North Dakota? Please forward a list of your past predictions and the timeline for which they came true.

Go ahead, drink your glass of water Iran. Hope you like it with a hint of Cruise Missile.

What a dumb thing to say. Obviously you haven't looked at the map or considered how the 5th Fleet is essentially a flock of sitting ducks in a very narrow tub against 1000s of miles of Iranian coast line. Sure glad you're not the kind of brainiac the Pentagon or the State Dept. is employing to navigate this very challenging confrontation with Iran.

Last I checked, aircraft carriers could actually mount strikes away from the Iranian coast. Amazing concept, I know.

They have these things called aircraft and missiles.

Jessica,

Thank you soooo much for spelling it out for me so that my brain was able to comprehend it. Without your Divine guidance, I guess I'd be as just in the dark and 'misinformed' about my opinion as, well, as you seem to be.

Whether it be intentional or from ignorance....I choose the latter....you seemed to have left out a very important aspect from your post. Millenia-old religious fanaticism. It has a tendency to 'color' ones judgements and perceptions. And all in the name of whatever 'Higher Power' you wanna name. Are you willing to blow yourself up for your God....believing that it's your religious duty as a 'good whatever'? See what I mean? So, if you factor that into the equation...there would be 'some' in Iran who wouldn't really give a @!$%# about the response of the world. Does that make sense, Sunshine?

And to answer your first question...yeah, there is a reason. Primarily because most other nations, including (until recently) Pakistan, have been more of our Allies than our enemies. And, you can't count the Cold War with the former Soviet Union because neither they, nor us, were an extremist fundamentalist country based around religion. And we both understood the principles of M.A.D. Are you familiar w/ M.A.D, Jessica? Religious zealotry doesn't have a place for such a thing. It's all God's Will, right?

Also, do you know exactly why we bombed Japan? If you know your history, then you know militarily-speaking....it was our only choice.

And would you be offended if someone said that a world without you sounds a bit more peaceful? I mean...as you said...it wouldn't be the 'worst thing in the world' to see you vaporized, right?

I guess the only thing worse than blind fanaticism is being blind to it.....Jessica.

I think a lot of people are forgetting here that Iran is causing the aggression, not the U.S. or any other countries.

The article said it was "international waters" and you can be sure it won't be just the U.S. looking to protect its trade and assets.

It's only four miles wide, do you suppose that it would take more than one boatload of mines to close the strait? What is accomplished by threatening a mine? Does iran have more than one option?

Hello Polka14, you are absolutely correct! Why is it Iran feels like they have to defend their territory? Could it be that they know we have no problem invading their sovereignty just as we have done to countless other countries. Since World War II, 90% of the casualties of war are unarmed civilians. 1/3 of them children. Our victims have done nothing to us. From Palestine to Afghanistan to Iraq to Somalia to wherever our next target may be, their murders are not collateral damage, they are the nature of modern warfare. They don't hate us because of our freedoms. They hate us because every day we are funding and committing crimes against humanity. The so-called "war on terror" is a cover for our military aggression to gain control of the resources of western Asia.
This is sending the poor of this country to kill the poor of those Muslim countries. This is trading blood for oil. This is genocide, and to most of the world, we are the terrorists. In these times, remaining silent on our responsibility to the world and its future is criminal. And in light of our complicity in the supreme crimes against humanity in Iraq and Afghanistan, and ongoing violations of the U.N. Charter in International Law, how dare any American criticize the actions of legitimate resistance to illegal occupation.

Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone. They're not defending our freedoms, they're laying the foundation for permanent military bases to defend the freedoms of Exxon Mobil and British Petroleum.

Face it we're Imperialists pure and simple. The elite look down on all of us as expendable chattel.

“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy” Henry Kissinger

I have no doubt about the Navy’s ability to keep the waterway open. However, the speculators are waiting and at the first sign of any type of conflict between the Navy and the Iranian crazies, the price of oil will skyrocket.

We all should think about how this scenerio would play out if the Iranians already had nukes. All the more reason to insure at any cost, that they never get them.

The 5th fleet is sitting in such a vulnerable spot and issuing threats for the sole purpose of regional stability.

I think they're less worried about it than you, Andrew.

@Trustverify. You're right

Jessica and Polka14,

I'd like to thank you both for your comments. It's some of the most hilarious reading I've read in days. Thank you for reminding me that there really are people out there as ignorant and clueless as you 2 appear to be.

Jessica, your comments are especially amusing...and rather sad...primarily because they highlight your lack of understanding of history, nuclear weapons, religion and your overall lack of critical thinking skills. Let me point out a few facts for you to help you out.

Fact: Nuclear weapons today are far more powerful than what was dropped on Japan. It's like comparing a stick of dynamite to a firecracker. BIG difference.

Fact: A nuclear exchange between Israel and Iran would kill millions of people and leave both nations uninhabitable for decades, not to mention irradiating their neighbors with all the fallout.

Fact: Iran's President Achmedenijad (or however you spell it) has stated more than once that he wants to wipe Israel off the map. Israel has not made similar remarks, so I would say Iran has been throwing far more "stones" than Israel has.

I feel sorry for both of you. You are both obviously incapable of critical thinking and can only make ignorant comments based on nothing but your emotionally driven ideology. If the Iranians ever read your comments, they'd laugh their behinds off at such insanity.

The truly sad part is you don't even realize how clueless you sound.

TrustVerify,

Wow, your comment makes theirs look brilliant. I can only shake my head at your ignorance. 90% are civilians huh? According to who? Palestine? Hmmmm that's funny, the American military has never conducted operations in Palestine.

Afghanistan? Really? I guess it was ok for them to have terrorist training camps there that trained terrorists to kill people all over the world right? We should have just let them keep it up right?

*sigh* People like you aren't even worth the effort it takes to prove how wrong you are. Try not to choke on all that mindless hate you seem to have. It's not healthy.

Wizard,

Outstanding post!

There has been a covert war with Iran since they overthrew the Shah. They seem to have the need to escalate it to full blown because of the sanctions they will be facing. It will be crippling and will further rile the citizens against the regime. We have been hoping for an Iranian spring for a decade or two.

The regime is a destabilizing influence in the region. Their aggressive behavior, death squads, and state sponsored terrorism has worn thin. Their removal is inevitable.

The legislation for the oil embargo against Iran comes fromn one of our Jewish Congressmen, Brad Sherman, working hard for Israel.

H.R.1655 : Stop Iran's Nuclear Weapons Program Act of 2011
Tightens the economic and diplomatic pressure on Iran and its remaining business partners. Ends the practice of American corporations conducting business with Iran through their foreign subsidiaries, sanctions entities that provide loans to the government of Iran, sanctions firms that prepay for future Iranian oil and gas deliveries, and targets the IRGC and its business partners for greater sanctions.

This comes despite the fact that no one has a bit of proof that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. In fact, the last report from all 16 US intelligence agencies, concluded that Iran DOES NOT have a nuclear weaons program.

Why can't our Jewish Congressmen recuse themselves from Business that involves Israel, their first allegiance? No more wars for Israel and vote out the Jew trying to get the US involved in yet another war for Israel.

I ask anyone, what right does the US have to strangle another nations economy? Do you all think Iran should have no recourse, but to accept the humiliation and the economic penalties? Iran has not attacked another nation for hundreds of years. They were attacked by Iraq, a country that was aided by the USA, helping to kill Iranian women and children.

The Wizard of Wisdom and AmericanDefender 9, outstanding posts. thanks!

Anyone of you that feels sorry for Iran I'm sure they are taking new converts.....TrustVerify, you are flat out wrong and you should be embarrassed to even post that crap.

Ralph...Prove your statement about 16 US Intelligence Agencies' reports that Ira doesn't have a Nuclear Weapons program? Got links?? And can you even name 16??

So all the reports that say they have enough weapons grade material and have built enough hardware to produce weapons isn't good enough?? Of course because it doesn't go with your poor,poor Iran bleeding heart....

The Government of Iran is trying to get Pres. Obama to react.

So far, they know, that nothing he says is effective.

I'm truly concerned about the American Iranian Prisoner, who is being held in Iran's jail for supposedly, "CIA" activities. He will get the Death Sentence when the Verdict is Read from the Iranian Court, directed by the Khomeni..

How will Obama react to this subject when he is back home from the family's vacation in Hawaii---"That will happen"; this guy is going to be killed. No Doubt.

Obama has some serious issues dealing with Iran---"Is he going to step up to the plate"; and resolve them as our President?. Relations with Israel stink, so we are on our own.

mtnbiker - I agree!! That oil pipeline direct from Iraq to the U.S. has been a wonderful thing. I love the cheap gas we now have as it inches back up toward $4 per gallon in my area. Oh, and all that oil now flowing from our conquests in Afghanistan is terrific.

The "war for oil" cry is tired and worn out. If we were an imperialist nation, Europe, Japan, the Middle East and most of Asia would be flying the American flag today. Please spare us this nonsense.

Polka14

I understand your postion about Iran and I could even agree with you if it were not for the expansionist goals of Iran. If Iran were content with it's own affairs I'd be right behind you, but they are not. Iran has the goal of turning all Arab countries into one Caliphate of their religion. Further, they wish to annihilate Israel.

What they want is comparable to what Hitlers Germany wanted in the 1930's. We can sit back and say they are a sovriegn nation and have the right to do what they want but if we are to learn the lesson Hitler taught us, we can't simply do nothing, hoping they will behave themselves.

And although some may call me an America hater, I agree we are largely responsible for world affairs. Although not all we do is bad, we've certainly raped other countries for our own benefits. America is not the shining example of virtue we like to think it is. Our actions are more dictated by potential profits than any sense of altruism.

mtnbikerZom,

Nah, I'm not done yet. Think I'll add you to the list. You're obviously another ignorant one if you think what those 3 said was "spot on". You want to prove me wrong, feel free to try...but try actually using some real facts, instead of the usual emotionally driven bs that seems to flow from people like you. It doesn't impress me.

Here's a few more facts for you mindless drones that think Iran is in the right:

Fact: Iran is at least partially responsible for the Iran-Iraq War. The Ayatollah Khomeini repeatedly made broadcasts encouraging the Shia population of Iraq to rise up and overthrow the Ba'ath government, even though the Iraqi government had made friendly overtures to the new Islamic leadership of Iran after the Shah's overthrow.

Fact: Iran would not be facing sanctions if it did not continually lie about its nuclear program.

Fact: Iran would also not be facing such intense scrutiny of its nuclear program if it hadn't repeatedly made statements to the effect that it wanted to wipe Israel off the map.

Fact: Iran would also not be facing that same scrutiny if it wasn't a known supporter of terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, and yes it is KNOWN that Iran supports them, since weapons found in the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah originated in Iran.

So please, spare me all the mindless bs about "American Imperialism". Iran is no innocent in this little drama and until you people figure that out, your comments are just a joke.

As interesting as many of today’s posts are, one fact remains. Iran has many internal problems, just the fact that 80% of the countries revenues come from oil production say’s it all. When a country likes Iran issues verbal threats it’s usually to divert public attention [their own public] away from the countries internal problems. The government of Iran sits on the razors edge and it wouldn’t take much to knock if off. The Mullahs know this so that’s why their playing this ’pay no attention to the man behind the curtain’ game and once again blaming their own failings on ‘The Great Satan”. The world needs to be calm and patient, these Iran religious fanatics will disappear sooner than later and it will be the Iranian people themselves that will make them disappear.

Iran doesn't know it but the US has drone stealth mini subs that will sink their little ship..anytime anywhere.

Wanna see an Ahmadinejad dildo? Courtesy of USAF?

//www.strategypage.com/military_photos/military_photos_2010081411044.aspx

Lock & load. Get ready...here it comes.... BOOM!

lol...

This noise is nothing more than an attempt to drive up the price of oil. Iran makes 80% of their money from oil so its, in thier own best interest to drive up the price of Oil, and Obama reacting in any way is just a back door way of him giving Aid to Irans Muslim population.

Iran….What is it with them, they have the world eating out of their hands, the huge reserves of “oil” making it all possible, yet, they are not happy and continually rock the boat. Perhaps their perceived sense of invincibility is interfering with their thinking.

In this instance however, they appear to be blindly walking through unknown territory into a trap from which there is no way out.

Important contacts in the Middle East acknowledge Iran has been beefing up the Navy to better control the Straits. They have fine subs, frigates, and corvettes that outnumber the U.S. Navy 5th fleet. U. S. Navy is too scattered around the globe to be effective there. They say the only way to diffuse this is for Turkey to slow down and temper Iran once again.

Iran knows U.S. military and Navy place a very high premium on not losing service personnel and might back down in the end to keep from losing political favor back home. They can guarantee America will still get some of the oil.

I'm just curious why we can't do business with them!? We do business with rapist, murderer's, human traffickers, blood diamondeer's, cocaine producer's and other infant countries! Why isn't there some sort of comfortable solution??????

Dear Wizard,

FACT: You provided no citations for any of your claims.

Yours in handing out cups of STFU,
YJSW

Big Al:

Not so sure--patience.

There has been so much turmoil; slaughtering of innocent human beings,, Revolutions, Murdered Dictators, and chaos, it may not happen. Just ignoring them may not be the solution, either. Arab Spring---Muslim Spring?

Iran is involved in ALL the Turmoil in the Middle East/N. Africa. They want to be the Leaders over all these Countries, including all Western Society. Hezbollah, The Iranian Army, etc are the Terrorists in Charge..

I do believe there is inner fighting going on among the Mullahs, and the little guy, Ahdinemajad---

We can never sleep well, knowing Iran is making these threats. The Rulers are too crazy---and obsessed.

It will be interesting on how our Government reacts to the latest threat of closing the Strait of Hormuz---some say it cannot be done; impossible.

Dear Wizard,

FACT: You provided no citations for any of your claims.

FACT is you provided no counter citations to say otherwise.

Yours in handing out cups of STFU,
YJSW

And you've been gobbling them up as fast as they've been ladled.

I would like to know why my posts were collapsed. I didn't violate the CoH. I suppose some simply hate reading anti-imperialist opinions that focus on the fact that the US is the supreme aggressor nation and Iran is only doing what it is doing in potential self-defense against a nation that would kill half a million people for no reason.

Please. Try and close the Straights of Hormuz. I dare ya.

That could not occur. They would be defeated. And their government has not stated that they would destroy Israel. Their president has advocated for regime change and even that has no weight towards what the Iranian leadership would do.

What? You mean they all don't lick Ahmadinejad anus?

For shame!

Israel lies about their nukes. Iran needs to lie or they risk attack from the imperialist US or Israel.

Oh so you admit they lie. Good to know when we attack.

lib tarded,

Heheh thanks. Couldn't have said it better myself. Gotta love the mindless drones like YJSW. They're all mouth and no brains.

Cheers.

Polka14,

Still spouting the "Iran is innocent" nonsense huh? Ah well, just keep your head in the sand. Don't let reality interfere with your delusions.

Just ignore the fact that Iran's President HAS stated he wants Israel destroyed. Just ignore the fact that Iran openly supports terrorist groups like Hamas, which REPEATEDLY claim they want Israel destroyed.

Just ignore the fact that if Iran wasn't openly hostile towards Israel and wasn't attempting to build a nuclear weapon, the US and Israel wouldn't give a damn about what Iran does.

Critical thinking isn't your strong suit is it?

Jessica, your comments are especially amusing...and rather sad...primarily because they highlight your lack of understanding of history, nuclear weapons, religion and your overall lack of critical thinking skills. Let me point out a few facts for you to help you out.

It's rather interesting way to start out your article, given that you yourself know pretty much nothing about what's going on, either.

Fact: Nuclear weapons today are far more powerful than what was dropped on Japan. It's like comparing a stick of dynamite to a firecracker. BIG difference.

Here's another fact for you, genius. Iran doesn't have access to any nuclear weapons at all. They don't have the wherewithal to build ANY nuclear weapons at this point. They are trying to refine Uranium. When and if they manage to get enough Uranium to build a nuclear weapon, the FACT is that it is going to be about the same size as the weapons that were dropped on Japan. They do not have the technology to build anything bigger, and they do not have the ability to get the technology to build anything bigger and will not any time in the next 20 years.

Here's some more FACT:- if Iran were to ever drop a weapon anywhere, it would be very obvious where it came from. Now some morons might claim that the Iranians are incapable of loving their own children and don't care if their own children die in a nuclear holocaust. But that's basically it; it is the sort of argument made by morons and has no place in a rational debate.

Iran isn't about to wipe Israel off the map. It is quite likely that they want to, but it is not at all possible that they are willing to risk their own destruction to do it. The converse holds true; I am sure the Israelis would love it if Iran were to disappear, but they aren't willing to take the pain that it would cost them.

Fact: A nuclear exchange between Israel and Iran would kill millions of people and leave both nations uninhabitable for decades, not to mention irradiating their neighbors with all the fallout.

This is exactly why neither the Iranians nor the Israelis want it to happen. The rest of your comments are pretty much chest-thumping and have no place in a debate. Unless one happens to be a chimp.

Still spouting the "Iran is innocent" nonsense huh? Ah well, just keep your head in the sand. Don't let reality interfere with your delusions.

No one is completely innocent but it is obvious that the US and Israel are the aggressors by threatening Iran.

Just ignore the fact that Iran's President HAS stated he wants Israel destroyed. Just ignore the fact that Iran openly supports terrorist groups like Hamas, which REPEATEDLY claim they want Israel destroyed.

That was a mistranslation. Iran's President has only stated that Israel should have a regime change. And a proxy war through armed militants is something that the US has engaged in.

and wasn't attempting to build a nuclear weapon

If Iraq had nuclear weapons then we would have not attacked them in an unprovoked war. Iran could only be benefited with a few nuclear weapons and we should not interfere. The above post #1.60 is correct. Iran is not likely to attack another nation unprovoked especially with nuclear weapons because the response would be devastating.

Byron Raum,

I see you're as ignorant as Jessica, if for different reasons. You should've gone back and actually read her comment before referring to mine. It might've helped keep you from looking like an ignorant clown.

First off, IF Iran built a nuclear weapon today, it would not be like the atomics from WWII. Don't you think Iran would have access to more modern day technology than weapons data that is nearly 70 years old? Get a clue.

Secondly, Jessica is the one who brought up the "nuclear exchange" between Iran and Israel in the first place, so perhaps your comments should've been more accurate if they'd been directed at her.

But that'd take a higher level of intelligence than you appear to have. I'll pit my understanding of the situation against yours anytime. You're obviously not too bright if you can't even understand what someone is talking about in the first place.

Grow up and get a clue.

Polka14,

Whatever man. Just believe whatever you want. Your belief that Iran would never use a nuke is based on what a rational person would or wouldn't do. That is an erroneous assumption on your part. Iran could easily use a nuke on Israel. They are a religious theocracy and their military is controlled by that same religious theocracy.

Religious fanatics are not known for rationality...regardless of what religion they are. Sorry, but most thinking people would agree that Iran having nukes is a very bad idea.

As for the US and Israel being the aggressors...that's a lie. Israel has never threatened Iran the way Iran has threatened Israel.

As for Ahmidenijad's (whatever his name is) words being mistranslated, that's a lie. The man has blatantly threatened Israel. He has also said the Holocaust was a lie. He openly supports terror groups.

Bah, screw it. Defend the psycho all you want. He is evil and has been proven so to anyone with any intelligence. Believe what you want.

@Byron,

Iran isn't about to wipe Israel off the map. It is quite likely that they want to, but it is not at all possible that they are willing to risk their own destruction to do it.

Uhhhh.....think those thoughts were going through Hitlers' head as he dreamt up schemes of world domination. And let's not forget about killing all those Jews too, eh? Nah....I don't think he ever thought for a millisecond about risking the destruction of the Fatherland. Why? 'Cuz, in his mind, he wasn't gonna lose. Food for thought, my friend.

And Polka...don't you remember the Islamic Revolution of '79? Oh, thats right.....you weren't even born yet. Sorry....my bad. I didn't take into account that you were educated in West Coast Revisionist History. I guess it was a mistranslation when Ahmedinejad addressed the U.N. and remarked about the 'destruction of Israel'. Hmmmm....

Drakkaonis is ignorant. Iran is not expanding its military anywhere. Are you on meth? The US has invaded more countries than the USSR in case you have been too high to notice.

No one is completely innocent but it is obvious that the US and Israel are the aggressors by threatening Iran.

Stop building nuclear weapons and you won't get those threats.

That was a mistranslation. Iran's President has only stated that Israel should have a regime change.

Ahmadinejad doesn't know what the fukk a regime change is. Maybe somebody should do a regime change on Ahmadinejad.

And a proxy war through armed militants is something that the US has engaged in.

So what. You should be more worried about the next B-52 strike that's gonna fall on your toweled head. The rain will come.

Hello folks, war mongering is not a flattering view point or charming characteristic. All of you who are so willing to want to start wars I doubt are willing to pack yourselves and your families up and head to the front lines. You act as if it’s a video game or an entertaining reality show. Do you have no conscience or respect for the sanctity of life? Or is your heart so cold that you see war as a necessary byproduct of our existence on earth? Who really wins in war, nobody, not even those sociopathic maniacs who think they do by profiting from it? Millions of people get physically and emotionally damaged by the atrocities of war. By condoning and supporting wars even though you don’t pull the triggers or drop the bombs are complicit and bare responsibility for that action. Aren’t you worried that you will suffer the karmic repercussions for those actions?

Since the Russian war in 1828, Iran has never attacked another country. We on the other hand have attacked to name a few:
Libya, Iran, Nicaragua, Haiti, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Angola, Mozambique, Honduras, Chile, Congo, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, Angola, Columbia, Peru, Panama, Yemen, Pakistan, Grenada, Mexico, etc..

Wake up people we are being herded down the Military Industrial Complex gauntlet again to another false war to enrich the greedy Corporations and distract the American people. Did we not learn anything from the Iraq war where we have killed well over 1 million Iraqi people, lost thousands of American lives and God knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars? All the disinformation trolls will be out in force (you know who you are, they are the trolls that can only resort to ridiculing those who speak out against war and have never even been in a school yard fight much less have held their best friend in their arms while he died for another Wall Street venture) to try and sell you on this war just like they did with Iraq. Who do you support, humanity or the greedy elite?

I’m not asking you to hate war but to love peace. War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

The defense contractors apparently are well represented here. The FACT remains that this is NOT a problem for the United States. The United States initiating military action over Iran's bluster would be even more stupid than invading Iraq. Let the countries that will be affected deal with the problem.

The fifth fleet can't do squat in this situation. Asymmetrical naval warfare is no different than asymmetrical ground warfare. We have all witnessed the effectiveness of cold war military planning in an asymmetrical battle environment. How did air superiority work in that environment? What is the effective range for artillery? How about 20mm anti aircraft? Iran doesn't need to float a boat to close the straight.

The best strategy for the US is to call for a full oil embargo - tighten enforcement of sanctions - bluster at the UN. Iran has presented the US with a golden opportunity to 'encourage' Europe to become more engaged in Africa, Iraq, and Turkey - to 'encourage' Saudi Arabia to become more engaged in the Middle East instead of playing it politically safe - to 'encourage' Israel to stop hiding behind the US.

Saber rattling is one thing. Calling for the US to take military action is the absolute stupidest thing to do.

Iran has been thumping their chest since the shah was overthrown, yet nothing has come from it. We claim they interfere in the middle east, but much of the problem there is our own making. We took down Saddam based on lies, eliminating one factor keeping Iran in check.

Thankfully the neocons are not currently in power, or we would be in another useless war, sacrificing our young men and women for their personal gain.

And as you can see up above, the libtards are lining up ready to lick Ahmadinejad anus and tell him what a good boy he is.

Polka 14: #1.61 and #1.56

I never agree with Collapses, but the last remarks should be Collapsed as well.

Are you on the Enemies side--?

Do you want Americans to die--- Yes, indeed, Iran has seriously threatened Israel, and The United States to be wiped off the face of the map. Iran is working feverishly right now to get rid of Israel. Please read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

I take your remarks very seriously.

When you have problems at home, you rattle a saber or two as a distraction. When you have China and Russia interested in where your oil goes, you have a big brother back-up team. When you have a man with an unspellable name (Atemydinnerjacket is my current favorite) blustering and carrying on, a man who professes to believe in the 12th Madhi, you may have a problem.

Wizard of Wisdom:

Great comments to Polka 14----

Typical non believer of the Holocaust---maybe a person who sides with the Enemy, Iran---

No one knows if the posts are coming from another Country.

Good point, mygirl1

Not too sure if many folks on here are aware of the 'Mahdi' issue.

If the United States is so interested in Iran's Oil, then why did we not get Oil from Iraq? The Iraq War is over.

It's all about a frightening potential Hitler, (Ahdinemajad and his Khomeni's).

This mad dog wants to Rule the World in his deviated mind. They could soon be at our doorstep, if they are not monitored for their Nuclear Warfare Program.

Ahdinemajad has used and abused the United States, coming here last summer to talk at the UN---talking against the US---The United Nations should be thrown out of New York, and put in Siberia.

Are you on the Enemies side--?

Our enemy is the US government. It is the organization that has effectively destroyed out freedoms with the NDAA and the "patriot" act and built organizations like the TSA and Homeland Security. Iran is no threat to American freedoms.

Do you want Americans to die--- Yes, indeed, Iran has seriously threatened Israel, and The United States to be wiped off the face of the map. Iran is working feverishly right now to get rid of Israel.

Iran is no real threat to the US and if they did attack us, they would be wiped off the map and they are aware of those consequences. There is no argument to be made that they Iranian government seeks destruction of their own country.

Stop building nuclear weapons and you won't get those threats.

Iran has the same right to build those weapons that the US builds.

The US has invaded more countries than the USSR in case you have been too high to notice.

Indeed. The US is the most dangerous nation on the Planet and is the greatest threat to world security in modern times. It is the result of imperialist policies of aggression.

They could soon be at our doorstep, if they are not monitored for their Nuclear Warfare Program.

I think that is more fearmongering.

yes they have a right to build them and we have the right to stop them! duh! its funny how the us gets blamed for all the worlds evils but never gets credit for being the most generous we spend more money on aids in africa than the gdps in some countries not to mention billions in aid to other nations but no one ever says anything about that on here while reviling us for our "interference in their affairs" if you dont like it here you are free to leave! if you want our money then yeah we have some say so. I didnt see iran turning down american aid when they had the earthquakes awhile back! we are great when we are doling out money and aid but when we say no you cant do that we are evil? what a bunch of flip flopping whiners you are!

and we have the right to stop them!

The US has no right to interfere in their right to build nuclear weapons. It should be seen as an act of war to sanction Iran for building those weapons.

Hello folks, our country is broke and weary of war. Let’s take an objective look at the Iran situation. Ask yourself, what would happen if Iran attacked an oil refinery in the US? Of course we would go into Iran and bomb their country. Well, we recently bombed an Iranian oil refinery and they didn’t retaliate. We issued sanctions on their oil and export industries and they didn’t retaliate. Why is that? Do you think they are weak?

While appearing vulnerable they took control of the most sophisticated drone on the planet downloaded and deciphered the encrypted information and have our Military intelligence (I know it’s an oxymoron) people worried that top secret information has been compromised.

Do you believe that the Iranian’s have the capability to bring down a state of the art drone and have it land where they want it to and down load and decipher complex encrypted code? It appears that Iran has been getting help and lots of it from a very sophisticated source or sources. The US already declared war on Iran by issuing sanctions and covertly bombing them but they don’t dare overtly go in because it would jeopardize China’s oil flow, piss off Russia, Turkey and the local Arab countries. This would also force Iraq to support Iran. We got kicked out of Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan is trying to get us to leave there country. The Middle East is kicking us out which means we are running out of staging areas and NATO support for an attack on Iran. The US tried to concoct fraudulent excuses to stir up public support to go into Iran. There was the laughable assassination ruse of the Mexican drug cartel and the more unbelievable law suit stating Iran was part of 9/11. There were also claims that Iran attacked Iraq, etc. The elite are running out of false flags. Iran is out foxing the US because they have the world divided and we can’t command an organized response. The UN Security Council voted against the US a few weeks ago. The world is getting fed up and bored with our Imperialism and the elite who orchestrate war.

We have been fighting urban wars of attrition for over 10 years now and we are broke, our allies are broke. We have spent close to 3 Trillion dollars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We can’t afford another expensive protracted war a half a world away and the US citizens are sick of war. There is 85% support for Ron Paul amongst our troops because they are sick of war and he’s promised to end the wars. The lengthy wars have depleted our manpower, equipment, and our political capital.

Last week the Census Department of the Federal Government reported that “50% of the nation’s population are living below the poverty line”. Our nation’s wealth has been exhausted by war so that we could secure profits for the banking, oil, and Military/Industrial cartels. We never saw a dime of it and never will because the 1% elite feel they have a Divine Right at our expense. You know their motto, privatize profits and socialize losses. They truly can’t squeeze much more from the peasantry but they will try.

Our government has been trying to get Iran to do something stupid so that we can attack them but they won’t do it. Iran isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. They haven’t done anything, aren’t weak and they aren’t bluffing. They are asserting their right as a sovereign nation and have the support of some very powerful countries. If we attack Iran, the war will be at our doorstep and then we will see how brave you who espouse war respond. When you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Hiya Polka,

Iran has the same right to build those weapons that the US builds.

Ok...and these 'rights' are specified in WHAT document? Like, we have our 'Bill of Rights' (something I'm sure you're very familiar with *wink wink*) so what is the document that provides the RIGHT of Iran to build and posses nukes? Just seeking Enlightenment from you, thats all. Oh and ya...you might wanna tone down on the 'our enemy is the US gov't ' stuff. Not infringing on your First Amendment RIGHTS but merely suggesting....rephrasing it, perhaps.

Btw...curious... do you own a Ron Paul tshirt? :)

Those of you dissing Polka...Hey, he's right. Our biggest threat to our nation and our civil rights isn't Iran, it is the Federal Government. You all ok with eradicating the trial by jury, defence by legal council and being held indefinitely without charges protections guaranteed in the Constitution? Really? NDAA, under the guise of protecting us from terrorists, has just eradicated the Bill of Rights and along with the Patriot Act, we have lost the Constitution as well. Go fret over Iran, the much bigger enemy is right in your backyard.

The statement by the U.S. Navy and Pentagon about unacceptability of closing the Strait is, in itself understandable, but irresponsible.

I disagree and for once I'd like to see the US respond to Iran's rhetoric with "Go ahead and try."

Hey AmericanDefender9. Iran has every right to have nuclear weapons. What document specifying their right to have it are you talking about? They are a sovereign nation, thus their rights within international community are equal with the rights of United States. If your country has a right to have a nuke, then Iran has that right too. If nation of Israel that illegally occupies Palestine has a right to have nuclear weapons, then nation of Iran that does not occupy or attack their neighbors has the right to have nuclear weapons. If you think U.S. has more rights than Iran simply because your country is richer and stronger it means that your country is an evil bully and the world should get rid of your country. You are the ones who invaded Iraq based on fake reasons, caused deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis, and now pulled out leaving the once stable, sovereign nation in chaos of sectarian and political violence and ruined infrastructure. And yet, somehow United States still has more rights to have a nuke than Iran? You have just raped and destroyed a sovereign nation, yet have the nerve to say that Iran has no right to have nuclear weapons because it might be used irresponsibly. Your war in Iraq alone makes you a rogue state. The world should impose sanctions against you for starting unprovoked wars against sovereign nations and possessing nuclear weapons.

TrustVerify-

to most of the world, we are the terrorists.

Americans have no idea how deeply they are despised by much of the world. But they are so arrogant that it wouldn't matter if they did know, because they would tell themselves it's because everyone else is jealous.

Many of our soldiers don't fight for America, they fight for their lives and their buddies beside them, because we put them in a war zone....

“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy” Henry Kissinger

That's like blaming the pastor for talking about chickens coming home to roost. It's okay for smart people to tell the truth, even if the truth hurts.

We have a volunteer army. Every soldier who died in Iraq did so for one reason and one reason only: they personally chose to participate in making war on a country that did nothing to us. The soldiers weren't defending us in any way whatsoever, by any stretch of wild self-justification. The politicians said: Go murder these people, and they said, Hot damn, YES! And some of them died in the process because it wasn't a reality game after all.

My point being that individuals must take responsibility for their choices, especially when that choice involves killing other human beings. No one "put them in a war zone." They put themselves there.

Who put the military in charge of United States foreign affairs? Making foreign policy statements is beyond the Constitutional authority of any branch of the United States military.

Not when it comes to shipping lanes with the US Navy.

It's basically their primary mission; to ensure freedom of sea navigation. It's not some 'foreign policy' stance, this stance by the US Navy goes back to the very roots of its existence, long before the current Iranian government existed, long before Obama, long before any of us.

they personally chose to participate in making war on a country that did nothing to us.

Lol, that was their 'reason' - putting words into their mouths now? People volunteer for the military to serve the interests of their home-nation. Sometimes those interests make them the adversary of others. Soldiers do not make the decisions on how our nations interests will be implemented and preserved, that's up to the politicians. If you have a problem with how our nation's interests are being served - blame the politicians - NOT the soldier.

It's basically their primary mission; to ensure freedom of sea navigation. It's not some 'foreign policy' stance, this stance by the US Navy goes back to the very roots of its existence, long before the current Iranian government existed, long before Obama, long before any of us.

Very true enough, but we get the vast majority of oil from Canada now. We do NOT need to be there. So Iran wants nukes. So what? WE have nukes! Freedom of sea navigation? If other countries want their oil and to roam about in those terrorist infested waters uninhibited let them put up their OWN fleets. It's time so say GOOD RIDDANCE to that region.

Although I somewhat agree with ya there Ticket, one must remember the importance of projecting power, as well as the well-being of our foreign allies for our own economic welfare.

It's a mess, and whether or not it's actually worth the price is definitely questionable. But when the US Navy 'ensures open sea lanes' it also ensures that the US Navy remains a powerful global presence, which then increases US power and influence. Influence being the US's primary export afterall - it's how we make our money since manufacturing has gone down the tubes.

It's a tricky situation, indeed - and I agree that some of the old-school tactics of military projection might be out-dated. If you ask me, the new fronteir is cyberspace and its peripherals - power and control in that realm is the new Navy of the 18th-20th Centuries.

I mean think about it ...

Wake Up Now: we have a great interest in protecting Israel, our best friend in the region and only democratic state in the area.

Aww jerri, you back again after your banning?

Polka14 If you're American I think you are living in the wrong country. Perhaps you would be happier in Iran?

Ok...and these 'rights' are specified in WHAT document?

They have those rights as a sovereign nation. It is like Musafir said. The US has become a rogue state that bullies others for exercising their own sovereign right to run their nation as they like.

ou might wanna tone down on the 'our enemy is the US gov't ' stuff.

The US government is an evil rogue state that threatens world security. The US is more dangerous then North Korea.

Btw...curious... do you own a Ron Paul tshirt? :)

No but I support Paul because he supports the end of this imperial presidency and our dangerous terrorist-like actions against foreign countries.

The world should impose sanctions against you for starting unprovoked wars against sovereign nations and possessing nuclear weapons.

That would be a just consequence.

Polka14 If you're American I think you are living in the wrong country. Perhaps you would be happier in Iran?

The old "like it or leave" argument?? I think I will stay for now until it is obvious that people are being thrown in military prisons for speaking out against the regime or the wars or the blue shirts. I think if anything is not compatible then it would be me. I demand to live in a free nation. If the US is a rogue state that crushes the freedom of its own people then it is a nation of evil. I think you are more compatible living in an imperialist nation that crushes other nations that don't accept US world dominion.

Polka14 is obviously a moron, yet is entitled to his/her own opinion. Nuclear Weapons are not a right and most of the world has agreed to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). Thus, your argument about their "right" to build a nuclear weapon has been removed by Iran's own agreement they will not. There is a reason for the NPT, mainly that countries (like Iran) that develop them will most likely lose track or sell to rouge states and in 2 yrs your hometown will be struck by that exact same nuclear device you are currently saying Iran should, and has the right to develop. Mind you, Polka supports Rand Paul, a guy that wants to get rid of Dept. of Education and Energy. That way, people down there in Houston can attend Exxon High School with hopes of further studying all about how wonderful oil is and how global warming is a myth (because those 3% of scientists that claim it's false, who just happen to be subsidized by Exxon, know the REAL truth) Also, Polka, you keep saying the imperialist America invades and crushes other countries. Have we ever invaded a country and then called it the United State's territory (post 1900)? We invade other countries to help sustain peace on a broader scale. But, it takes a more complex understanding to get that. Unfortunately, with your 4th grade Exxon High School education, you only see oil, and how you need to get drilling in your backyard to help America. That's what it's all about!

lib tarded - Not all liberals think we should be kissing Iran's booty, and I don't really know why Right wingers think this. Me and all of my liberal leaning friends support logic, and logic in no way dictates we should bow down to a maniac and a country led by religous fanatics.

Wisdom - thanks for pointing out the lack of any tangible evidence in most of these postings.

Personally, I love the one response that stated: "well you didnt provide any evidence that what I said was wrong". Following this logic, for example, WMD's in Iraq MUST exist because you cannot prove they don't. Well, we all know where that got us. Something is not correct because you cannot prove it is wrong. Something is correct when you prove it is corrent, through data and fact.

lib tarded

Dear Wizard,

FACT: You provided no citations for any of your claims.

FACT is you provided no counter citations to say otherwise.

Yours in handing out cups of STFU,
YJSW

And you've been gobbling them up as fast as they've been ladled.

It's lovely when people who don't understand basic concepts of debate roll in with something absurd.

It's not my burden to disprove something he doesn't provide evidence of. Duh?

By your logic, I could simply claim you to be a factually-verified cretin, and YOU would have to certify that you're not ... regardless of the accuracy of my statement.

So, this is what you're facing: either admit the fallacy of your previous statement OR provide irrefutable proof that you're not a cretin.

Your rules, not mine, buddy.

No? Nothing? lib tarded? I guess I win, then.

Nuclear Weapons are not a right and most of the world has agreed to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). Thus, your argument about their "right" to build a nuclear weapon has been removed by Iran's own agreement they will not.

Iran is sovereign so it can freely ignore the NPT at will.

We invade other countries to help sustain peace on a broader scale.

The US is a rogue state that invades and attacks foreign nations to spread its ideology and to overthrow governments. But even the US will not attack a nuclear power.

There is a reason for the NPT, mainly that countries (like Iran) that develop them will most likely lose track or sell to rouge states and in 2 yrs your hometown will be struck by that exact same nuclear device you are currently saying Iran should, and has the right to develop.

That is an illegitimate threat. Any probability of a nuclear device being used in the US from Iran is no greater then the same threat from the former Soviet Union. And the US is a rogue state and it has many nukes and have not used them since WWII.

Our enemy is the US government. It is the organization that has effectively destroyed out freedoms with the NDAA and the "patriot" act and built organizations like the TSA and Homeland Security. Iran is no threat to American freedoms.

No, you're my enemy too. Which is why we're gonna vaporize you mother_fukkers.

Iran is no real threat to the US and if they did attack us, they would be wiped off the map and they are aware of those consequences.

LOL... Hilaroius. Well I suggest you blockade then. Let's see you 'destroy' us.

There is no argument to be made that they Iranian government seeks destruction of their own country.

Sure they are. They're a bunch of lunatics living in the 12 century. They'd love to all to heaven and get their 72 virgins and I think we should accommodate them.

Iran has the same right to build those weapons that the US builds.

Ah, so you admit those nuclear plants aren't for peaceful purposes which makes your government a bunch of piece-of-@!$%# lairs. Good to know!

Indeed. The US is the most dangerous nation on the Planet and is the greatest threat to world security in modern times. It is the result of imperialist policies of aggression.

You have a right to be afraid. As soon as the raining death falls on your heads.

So go ahead with the blockade. Give us an excuse. Go-wan. I dare ya.

I think that is more fearmongering.

Then put your money where your mouth is. You can do that. Right?

lol...

It's lovely when people who don't understand basic concepts of debate roll in with something absurd.

I'm glad you recognize that about yourself. I'll bet it was a long time coming too, huh?

It's not my burden to disprove something he doesn't provide evidence of. Duh?

But I'm making it your burden. I'm calling you out on it.

By your logic, I could simply claim you to be a factually-verified cretin, and YOU would have to certify that you're not ... regardless of the accuracy of my statement.

Well I could call you a mindless drone and that would be factually true since you couldn't come up with anything factually to rebut him.

So, this is what you're facing: either admit the fallacy of your previous statement OR provide irrefutable proof that you're not a cretin.

No, I'm facing a mindless drone who makes idiotic demands on web blogs and shouldn't be taken very seriously. However, you are entertaining.

lol...

Your rules, not mine, buddy.

Ok, well my new rule is this: Why don't you go out play with your widdle dollys and then when you get big and all growed up, come back and see us. Then maybe you'll think of something constructive to say besides acting petulant all the time.

No, you're my enemy too.

I don't live in Iran. I live in the US. I am only an enemy of those that are enemies of my freedoms and would destroy Constitutional law in the US. These enemies include the US government.

LOL... Hilaroius. Well I suggest you blockade then. Let's see you 'destroy' us.

If Iran attacks the US, they would be destroyed but there is no threat from an unprovoked attack from Iran. An unprovoked attack. And again, I don't live in Iran so you should not use phrases that imply that I live there.

Polka,

Seems like you and I are fast becoming buddies. Thats good. Because I like you. You are steadfast in your thinking....whether wrong or right....and that's admirable. Again, however, my main point of contention w/ you is all this 'The US Gov't is my enemy' stuff. Ya, ya, ya...Freedom of Speech and all that good @!$%#. You do realize, however, that you sound incredibly 'subversive' using that language and in these days and times that might not be such a good thing. Unless you truly are subversive. I'm not messing with you man....just saying that sometimes it's best to watch how one 'flies ones flag'. Thats all.

You do realize, however, that you sound incredibly 'subversive' using that language and in these days and times that might not be such a good thing.

I am not subversive against the Constitution. Only against tyranny. Yes, I am aware of NDAA but I am not willing to let myself fear retribution from the government against us that value peace and freedom and despise war and tyranny.

I don't live in Iran. I live in the US. I am only an enemy of those that are enemies of my freedoms and would destroy Constitutional law in the US. These enemies include the US government.

You sound like you're twelve years old is more like it.

If Iran attacks the US, they would be destroyed but there is no threat from an unprovoked attack from Iran. An unprovoked attack. And again, I don't live in Iran so you should not use phrases that imply that I live there.

Well you should move there. Sounds like you fit right in.

~

Oh and uh, closing the Straights Of Hormuz (which by the way is an international shipping lane) IS a provocation.

Me thinks you don't know what the word provocation means. Better look it up. I know you will.

lol...

No? Nothing? lib tarded? I guess I win, then.

Surrre, you get to be moron of the year. Congratulations!

LOL... :D

You sound like you're twelve years old is more like it.

That may be nice if I was but I am not.

Well you should move there. Sounds like you fit right in.

I'm not Iranian so they would probably shoot me.

Oh and uh, closing the Straights Of Hormuz (which by the way is an international shipping lane) IS a provocation.

Me thinks you don't know what the word provocation means. Better look it up. I know you will.

The US is provoking Iran by inflicting sanctions against their economic ability. Closing the strait would only be a retaliatory response to US and western aggression. Not a provocation on Iran's part.

Polka,

I am not subversive against the Constitution. Only against tyranny.

Fair enough. I look forward to further thought-provoking....and civil.....discussions.

Surrre, you get to be moron of the year. Congratulations!

LOL... :D

You don't get to change the rules. Troll harder; I'm not that easy of a mark.

The burden of proof doesn't rest with me. Since your b*tch isn't going to fess up, I'll transfer the responsibility to you.

Substance -- you're lacking. I'm awaiting something more ... substantial. Can you bring it? I certainly hope so.

**still winning**

Okay, my 2 cents...

Yes, the US screwed things up with Iran by supporting the Shah. Yes, our government was stupid in the '80s in selling weapons to both sides during the Iran-Iraq war.

The catch I see now is the idea of a nuclear Iran. Those who assume that the nukes would be used against Israel seem to forget that Iran successfully launched a satellite a few years ago. Look at your history and why Sputnik scared the hell out of us back in the '50s. It was because the same technology used to launch a satellite into orbit proved the capability of making an intercontinental ballistic missile. The rocket that launched Sputnik doubled as the first Soviet ICBM.

You seriously think that Iran would choose to just hit Israel when they'd have the capability to hit Israel's biggest supporter?

The idea of deterrence isn't as likely to work against Iran as well as it did with the Russians, either. Both in their Islamic Revolution and the post-election violence a couple of years ago the rallying cries involved the glorification of martyrs in a way that the Russians never practice. Such a mindset worries me because I could see the leadership considering the martyrdom of millions of their own people in even a limited, but devastating, nuclear exchange as desirable if they think it will make them the center of an apocalyptic war of cultures that they'd expect to destroy the West.

As much as I hate to leave it to someone else, I think the best option is to leave dealing with the nuclear situation to Israel. Their intel in the region is as good as or better than ours to tell when and where Iran would be preparing bombs, they have the capability and in the 1980s proved they were willing to destroy nuclear facilities to deny a potential enemy nuclear capability when they destroyed a facility in Iraq, and I doubt that they'd let any intent by Iran to hit us first be an excuse to let things slide since they'd be allowing their biggest military source get hit.

The catch with all this is that now we've already set up the standoff an no one wants to back down.

You don't get to change the rules.

I can do whatever I please. Make me.

Troll harder; I'm not that easy of a mark.

Well troll, since you've won the moron of the year award, I guess you're not.

lol....

The burden of proof doesn't rest with me. Since your b*tch isn't going to fess up, I'll transfer the responsibility to you.

No, you made the accusation against him so let's hear it. I know you can't refute him point by point and your obvious stalling here says so.

Substance -- you're lacking. I'm awaiting something more ... substantial. Can you bring it? I certainly hope so.

You obviously can't. I thought you were supposed to be smarter than all of us. No? Go back to his post and refute his points and then you'll get something in return instead of spewing nonsense.

I think you've forgotten them getting all caught up in my game here. ADD perhaps? Or are you naturally a dumb ass?

**still winning**

Winning what? You still haven't said anything. Let's hear it.

Concraulations lib tarded

Your now in the final leg of the "Get a Vacation from Newswine".

Your contributions to this event is post #1.107 & #1.102

"Concraulations..."?

"Concraulations..."?

"CONCRAULATIONS..."?

What is "Concraulations"?

lol... :D

they didn't specify, or perhaps it was lost in translation, but they could have been saying that they could shut the Straight of Hormuz as easy as it would be for them to drink increasing multitudes of sea water from the convenience of their ships' bridges.

Smells like victory

Can they drink a glass of water when there bodies have been erradiated with a nuclear explosion to clear the debris.r

Can anyone say "Paper Tiger"..........

Paper Tiger? The Persian Civilization? Alot of history over there.

Have you ever seen their Navy? Outside of their 2 diesel subs, they've got some impressive machines. The only thing that prevented Iran from taking over Iraq was the chemical weapons that we gave Saddam to use on the Iranians which killed 800,000 people. I wonder why they hate us? How's Obama's silent war in Uganda going. He committed troops over there, are we going to see any news on the subject. I can't stand Bush, but if he would have committed troops to a civil war, we'd hear more screaming in the streets. But Obama gets a free pass.

Really True American?? Pick a country and they gave Iraq their WMDs...The US didn't give them anything, but certain viruses to study, ie botulism, west nile and also some anthrax.....GERMANY and the UK gave them the means to produce mustard gas...So before you spew what you think you know, read up a bit you tool....And they hate us because we aren't like them.....

Yes, the Iranian Navy is impressive with the quietest subs ever made. Plus hard hitting frigates and corvettes that outnumber the 5th fleet. They can control the Hormuz and just let enough oil through to keep U.S. quietly upset. We don't want to lose service personnel and they don't mind at all to make the point. They will not stop oil to U.S., only slow it to drive up the price and buy even more Naval assets. U.S. Navy very scattered around the world, no concentration here. Only Turkey will be able to bust the Iranians or at least calm them down.

Ease of the pipe Captain. Quietest subs ever made????? LOL Sorry dude, shallow water attack subs dont even come close. You obviously dont have a clue because a Boomer will always be far more quiet than any attack sub. They will last all of a day or so. The U.S. navy has decades of experience in finding and tracking the real quiet subs.

I love the new Iranian propaganda photo. It’s some guy holding a sub machine gun while standing on a fiberglass speed boat. Is this their navy? I’ve seen more powerful boats pulling water skiers on Lake Mead. These people are suicidal.

Time to try out China's new aircraft carrier..!!

Let them spend some of their countries money.

Who cares about Iran's navy? All Iran need do is open a spigot at a terminal and dare someone to strike a match. Macondo, in our own Gulf, demonstrated how effective that strategy could be. If Iran cannot sell the oil then why not use it as a weapon? Iran can close the straight with artillery and anti aircraft guns. They do not need to float a boat to close the straight.

Hey, Iranian Naval Chief ----- The Western world (and most likely, virtually all of your neighbors) tire of your boasts and threats. So, go ahead; drink that glass of water. As a matter of fact, CHUG IT ! To paraphrase from a fairly recent western, "Go ahead. Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens". To borrow a line from an even earlier western,"If you're going to shoot, shoot. Don't talk".

The only thing that prevented Iran from taking over Iraq was the chemical weapons that we gave Saddam to use on the Iranians which killed 800,000 people.

Wow, someone needs to get their @ss into a history book. Direct use of chemical weapons in that war killed 50,000. In the 20+ years since, the estimate for both direct use and from later deaths from it is approx 100,000. No where near your sensationalized claim. Not sure what your purpose for lying was, but you outta keep your mouth shut till you have a clue.

The only thing that prevented Iran from taking over Iraq was the chemical weapons that we gave Saddam to use on the Iranians which killed 800,000 people.

But... I thought the media said Iraq didnt have WMDs???

Oh yeah, I guess they forgot about the WMD's we sold them, but other than those WMDs we didnt find any others.. or much others, besides 500 or so chemical weapons containing mustard and sarin nerve gas, but not as much as we WANTED to find.... just a small amount here and there... and a convoy trail of fumes leading to Syria.

Nerm_L

Iran can close the straight with artillery and anti aircraft guns. They do not need to float a boat to close the straight.

If Iran started shelling vessels as they transition through the straight, they would find themselves being bombarded in return by every US cruiser in the area with cruise missiles followed by shelling just minutes behind when the first missile salvo bloodies Iran's nose and their detection systems are blinded.

All Iran need do is open a spigot at a terminal and dare someone to strike a match

That would be suicidal. If Iran did that, they would devastate their own fisheries and spark a land invasion by their Arab neighbors. Doubly so, Iran, with the sanctions it is already saddled with would now find themselves running out of things like food and much of their economy would grind to a halt.

Iran wouldn't want a war on all fronts, and if they screwed over Hormuz, they would be messing with all of their neighbors' economies. Guaranteeing that they'd have everyone turning against them just like Hitler after the failure of the non-aggression pact with Russia.

The Iran that cried wolf.............

I was a servicemember, I served in Iraq. A friend of mine was a circus high wire act, he died doing his job. It's just a job, get over it!

keep trolling, Toasted McRash

OK, So where are the Liberals crying "No blood for Obama's oil war"?

Because it isn't Obama's, congress just outlawed diplomatic relations with Iran.

I guess I just assumed that Liberals genuinely cared about a war risk to American soldiers' lives instead of some sort of agenda. (Sarcasm)

Nice try, kiddo, but I've seen that song and dance before.

eng

no need wishing...just ignore em anyhow, the rest of the world does, or do you really believe anyone actually listens to imanutjob? (besides perhaps the U.N. but no-one listens to their ignorant rant either)

We export more oil than we take in as of this year.

The US doesn't get oil from them, nor do we need to get oil from them.

well if we would allow the keystone pipeline and other drilling here in the USA

And, we'd be able to continue exporting while increasing domestic production/consumption....if our great leader weren't beholden for votes from the anti-oil kooks.

It's not saber rattling. Our idiot Congress and the NeoCon faction within the administration headed by Hillary Traitor Clinton is setting us up for war with Iran....Idiots. We are all going to pay while these blueblooded, fed reserve serving 1% gunkheads wreck the Country. If you really think Clinton wants to help Obama...I got a bridge to sell you. Not to mention all the Neo-cons imbedded in every department under the Idiot Bush...When will Americans stop being so frickin' STOOOOOOOOOPID? You are about to get shafted again middle America.

Pray for peace and kick out all the idiots in Congress...ALL OF THEM that are up for re-election. Put in some one with real integrity and intelligence (obviously Obama for the Presidency, who knows if there are any for Congress, certainly not in the GOP) RatBast'ads.

Hey spider why do they need a pipeline?? So it can go to China.If it was stayin here they would build a refinery in NORTH DAKOTA!The Kochs don't care about the U.S.A.!

Im sure not many of you know this, but a lot of the senior Iranian navy were trained by us. Both in the US and aboard ships we sold them. Of course this was a while ago but these officers and senior enlisted sailors know our naval procedures.

I really wish we didn't need oil. Then we could ignore their pathetic saber rattling...

Good quote, couldn't have said it better myself.

Grow up. The only oil we get from the middle east is from Iraq and Saudi Arabia as that was in the security agreement that was negotiated to maintain bases in both countries. Now that we are gone out of Iraq much of that will cease.

A majority of our oil comes from South America and Africa. Here is the list of countries were our oil comes from.

1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Venezuela
5. Nigeria
6. Angola
7. Iraq
8. Algeria
9. United Kingdom
10. Brazil

Oil companies are blocking alternative energy because they are making to much money.. All the technology exists for electric cars, nuclear powered trains and so on but big oil holds all the patients.. Any company that tries to bring a solution to market is crushed with law suits or just bought off as trillions are at stake.. Force the government to claim the suppressed technology as national security resource and release it to be used.. Oil companies are hiding vast reserves of U.S. oil to keep the price up just like DeBeers is doing with diamonds.. Imagine what would happen to sand land if nobody wanted their oil.. Economic warfare, it is what Asia is doing to us..

If the incompetent bozo in the White House were not bought and paid for by the environmental lobby we could get that pipeline with Canada built and we would not need Arab oil. Looks like we will have to wait fo 2012 for a president who puts the national security of America over his petty political agenda.

Watermoon - See Black Knights post. Our "reliance" on arabian oil is highly exaggerated.

As much as the pipeline advocates would like you to believe that it would solve all our problems, oil doesn't work that way. Oil is a fungible resource... economically, all the world's oil flows into a single virtual bucket that all markets take from. That oil from Canada is not going to be given to, or even reserved for, Americans. The pipeline will take it to ports where it can be distributed to the global market like oil from any other source. It wouldn't be economically viable to do anything else. Logistics would tend to make the US be a likely destination for the physical oil coming from Canada, but the price and supply of oil we see would be no more influenced by it coming from Canada than from a new source form anywhere else.

If we get oil directly from Iran or not, the world consumption gives these Bozo's power to make them political jerks. If they were not important then the story would be 3rd page news. If China can't get all the oil they need don't you think the oil from Venezuela, Nigeria, Brazil, etc would go some place other then here.

I really wish we didn't need oil. Then we could ignore their pathetic saber rattling... is a good comment on this mess.

But the Liberals said we only went to Iraq to steal the oil.... so lets STEAL THE DAMN OIL ALREADY.

Gas was $1.87 in November 2008 when Obama went into office, now it's over $3. Gas prices are what caused the economy to tank.

Its not about oil its about freedom of navigation. Mining a strait is an act of war and cannot go unchallenged.

There does not need to be a total war, but if they shoot at, damage, or sink any vessel then there will be an international response.

Point being that even if we did not need oil we'd still respond to Iran mining or otherwise interfering with freedom of navigation.

Oh and this is such a fundamental concept that its covered in chapter one of the Bluejackets manual....:"The primary purpose of the US Navy is to keep the sea lanes open for trade."

How about we let Iran trade freely? They have done nothing to warrant sanctions.

Nothing except ignore the international community's demand that they show proof their nuclear program is not going to be used to create warheads. Or the numerous human rights violations.

It is over 30 miles wide. A couple of sunk ships will not close it.

@kamudi

Im not saying we are right in every occasion, but Iran is a bully too so don't get it twisted. All they do is bully and spew rhetoric at everyone that doesn't agree with them. If you think we are such a bully than move, but do bullies give out the amount of money we do when someone weaker is injured by a natural disaster? Think before you speak as there are two sides to everything.

Iran is run by lunatics. Iranians are brilliant people with a great heritage...but utterly lost in a religious fanaticism that'd make a modern-day Muhammad mad. They need to bring their religion up to the Space Age and realize it was constructed within an ancient context and needs to be updated from era to era. For example...we don't stone people any more. Please, let's get off the oil people!

@Kamudi

So....your advice is to stick our collective heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away. I have news for you my friend..hope is not a plan. Now hush, go back to your room, play with your Wii and let the grownups talk.

Uncle Dave, the narrowest point in the Strait of Hormuz is actually only 21 miles wide. But this doesn't matter as much as the shipping channels and their locations and widths. In Hormuz there are two channels, each 1 mile wide with a 2 mile buffer between them.

While sinking a couple of tankers would not block the entire strait, as was done by Israel with the Suez Canal, it would force all ships to change their routes which would cause massive problems since nearly all navigation is computerized now and this would require reprogramming of nearly all maritime navigational system. Add the fear of another sinking or two without notice and the underwater obstacles would basically shut down shipping until the straits were cleared by (get ready) the US Navy who would then have to patrol the straits like we did during the Iran/Iraq war.

None of this really matters though. Iran won this fight simply by threatening the shipping lanes. The US now has to move its navy into position to protect the straits and the price of oil is going to go up on speculation of war. BOth of these are the true objectives of Iran.

ALCON,

Its a LOT more complex problem now with the addtion of advanced diesel subs and advanced chinese exocet ii missile clones and small patrol boats. The region requires more precise navigation than you orignally think. Top that off with the extreme clutter generated by the proximity to land that makes tuning the AEGIS SPY radar properly for the threat. IT IS A BIG deal and if it goes to blows between navies...we had better strike first.

I have been there 4 times and been thru the straight 8 times, last time responsible for the air defense safety of the CVBG...do not take this scenario lightly...while i would support NEVER allowing the Iranians to close off the strait, in fact it is ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL MARITIME LAW!!!

we need to be prepared to ACT not react...

kamudi - It's not a matter of the US Navy sinking Iran's ships; it's a matter of keeping Iran from sinking any ships in the Strait.

The straight is 60 miles wide at its narrowest point...it will take more than a few. Google map it. You may have something if it isn't deep though.

Iran wants nukes? Lets send them a couple.

Delivery in 30 minutes, or the next one's free.

I like how when all the sheep see words on a screen that they don't like, they have to hide them. It's as if the mere existence of the words threatens their belief structure. Sad.

Morgs, you might want to look somewhere else since Google misled you. The narrowest point in the strait is between 21-22 miles wide. It becomes 35 miles wide if you ignore the island on the Iranian side. 60 miles wide at its narrowest point? Not even close.

As for depth, it is too shallow on the Iranian side for many large ships, though as you go further into the gulf this changes and the Iranian side is the deeper.

Lame Duck....it's a 'STRAIT" not a "straight." Please people, get it correct!

Your name for the duly Elected President of the United states is what I'd expect of a traitor. President Obama has done more to protect this country in 3 years than the previous 3 did in 20. I don't have to go over his acheivements because you know them well.

No need to waste your time Peter M-533554

tff is just fishing. let fail trolls fail

peter...were you Leftards traitors when you called Bush alot worse?

Your claim of Obamageddens accomplishments is pathetic

Peter M,

Even though I don't care for President Obama, you are correct in that he is our President and his office should be respected, However, As a recently retired Army Pilot with three tours in Iraq, I would love to hear how President Obama has protected this country more than the last three Presidents. The CIA killed Osama, that was just an extension of past policy. The drone war as well, past policy. NATO took care of Libya. Please enlighten me.

to Peter M: Traitor? You call someone that when they stand up for America. That's not exactly what traitor means. Obama is not a traitor, he is a spy for Saudi Arabia. There is a difference. Since he is not native born in America, he never has been shown to be eligible to be called a "traitor." Spy, yes. Traitor, no. Remember when he bowed to the King of Saudi? HE should have been impeached a long time ago. Other than that, he is a wretched example of a President, apologizing for us and taking sides with despicable Arabs who want to destroy God's Holy Land. Spy, yes. Traitor? Don't honor him with that title. The Saudis bought him , made him our president, and we fell for it. C'mon, man. He has ruined the United States of America, so the Saudis have gotten their money's worth. Out with the blaggard. It's a really bad dream.

Shep,

First of all, MANY thanks for your brave service in the hell hole of Iraq. I respectfully disagree that he was merely extending the Bush policies though he has extended the American agenda as every President is sworn to do. He has better managers in place and understands information..hell he's just smarter than Bush. The results are obvious to me whether it's 3 Somali pirates that get taken out by seals or Bin Laden who he personally ordered/monitored the actions on or the dude in Yemen they took out. His ordered drone attacks have been much more numerous and effective. Yes, he let NATO put it's force into the Libya campaign and we now have a new ally in the region and are not in a stupid new war. Have you seen how many plots have been foiled under Obama? Some by luck, others by good intelligence. I personally wouldn't care if Saddam was still in Iraq and we NEVER were. We'd have a trillion more dollars, 5000 more good men and women and Iraq would still be a mess like it is. The President doesn't pull the trigger but the American public elects him to wield our power with wisdom and Obama delivers.

Gordon,

If you fill up your tank with gas...you are the one supporting Saudi, not Obama. Bush has pictures kissing and holding hands with the Saudis. try to find one of Obama...come on. You are an obvious BirthTard. That one has been proven 7 times over. It means you are also a redneck racist that doesn't think Hawaii is even a state. It may be your destiny to be pathetic but you can change it by first admitting that Obama is duly elected. Hey...let's see you get elected big shot.

Ovomit will fix it? RUDE

Since when is calling a political leader in our country a derogatory name a traitorous action. If the 1st amend. means anything it means your free to use the term "Obvomit"in your political speech. Or did the Bill of Rights disappear because this so-called president is half black and half white?

Gordon

Daddy George wasn't in bed with the Saudis?

Nice try

God how I have people sometimes

Peter, where the F did you see Bush kissing and holding saudis hand? Apparently someone sent you a photoshop of that, because it was obamarama bowing and kissing the hand (and probably ass) of the saudis. Speaking of birth cert., it says 'Race - African/American'. There was no such category in the 60's. There are other lies in that fake BC. Take the blindfolds off. soros really likes people like you.

Of course there is free speech and you are also free to vomit on the flag, which is what calling our decent President horrible names is like to me. In this case you are both free to make a$$es of yourselves. OK, traitor was too strong...how about misguided, vulgar, ignorant, disgusting and despicable.

Peter, see how much better you feel now that you've expressed your "opinion" due to your freedom. Keep it up and you may actually come around to a belief in that glorious document called the Constitution of the United States!

Yo, Gabby...There are several actual photos of Saudi princes holding hands with Dubyous Bush when he was real busy clearing brush at the Crawford ranch. No photoshop. And you are right about Sr...he was in bed with Satan.

Gabriel-1934044

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2005/04/the_idealist_in_the_bluebonnets.html

http://www.hermes-press.com/BushSaud.htm

Take a look.

Really? Who is it? Who is it?

Like when he invaded Pakistan to get Bin Laden without their approval, or congressional approval, or UN approval or anyone else's approval??

Or maybe it was when he went into Yemen to get Al Awaki (sp?) without their approval, congressional approval, UN approval, or anyone else's approval.

Or maybe it was when he sent cruise missiles into Libya without their approval, congressional approval, UN approval, or anyone else's approval.

Do we see a pattern here?? Why yes, yes I believe we do. But the pattern is not with Obama, it's with his hypocritical followers who pissed and moaned every time Bush did something, but never say a word when Obama does it.

And just for the record, I support Obama on all three actions. I have no problem with any of them. But I do have a BIG problem with his little sycophant, hypocritical minions.

Is G.W back? obama's too busy bowing.

conservativenotrepublican: Yes, like that.

Sometimes you have to take steps that scare people, and he's ready to do it.

ConservativenotRepublican: In your comment about Libya...you are incorrect. He did not need Congressional approval because he wasn't taking us to war with Libya. President Obama was assisting NATO, at their request, with aerial support. That's a whole different ballgame!

theCavalier: I agree, so, I'm glad that, using your logic, you supported Bush in his actions, just as I did, and also supported Obama in his actions, just as I did.

I like being consistent.

Didi, you can play semantics if you wish, but for all intents and purposes, "we are NATO".

And I didn't say Obama "needed" congressional approval. I said he didn't "get" congressional approval. Bush didn't "need" congressional approval either. A president has the authority to order any military action he deems appropriate without congressional approval.

The only thing he can't do without congressional approval is to declare war. But he can drop a nuke without permission if he so chooses. Not that I would say it would be a wise course of action, but the president does indeed have that authority.

My example is valid.

We have been "calm and cool headed" with these people since they had their Islamic revolution. And where has it gotten us? I will tell you where: A country that openly displays its hatred of the United States with "Death To America" rallies is now on the verge of creating a nuclear weapon.

Yeah, calm and cool headed has really gotten us far with Iran!

Just search Youtube for "Death to America" and then remind yourself that this country may be on the verge of developing a nuclear weapon. Thanks to many American presidents who have simply kicked the can down the road...

HAHAHA, too funny, I'm assuming your being sarcastic. OBAMA is a PUTZ!

I couldn't agree with you more and I really don't care WHAT color his skin happens to be!

Ok, I give up....who?

This is the time when you need someone in control who's calm and level headed...and we all know who that is! He's proven himself to me!

Who dat? Yo dead daddy?

You're referring to the "most admired man" four years running, I take it. ;o)

ConservativeNotRepublican

Like when he invaded Pakistan to get Bin Laden without their approval, or congressional approval, or UN approval or anyone else's approval??

Or maybe it was when he went into Yemen to get Al Awaki (sp?) without their approval, congressional approval, UN approval, or anyone else's approval.

Or maybe it was when he sent cruise missiles into Libya without their approval, congressional approval, UN approval, or anyone else's approval

We could have a President like Bush that says he doesn't care where Osama Bin Laden is. Be that as it may, he went in without Pakistan's approval because you and I both know they would have warned Bin Laden and he would have fled again.

Unlike Bush who got us in a War with Iraq that killed over 4000 American soldiers and 10,000 Iraq citizens and soldiers, Obama did not lose one person going into Libya and he freed a country from a Dictators rule. You and I both saw the video's of how happy they where when the were freed and how happy they where when they found coward hiding in a gutter.

So Unlike the Republican leader who put us in the biggest recession ever known in the history of the US and the most expensive, Obama actually does things the right way. Now if we could just get Beohner and his cronies to stop saying no to everything even if it helps, then maybe we could get something done for our Country as well.

Brenda: All I ask is that you apply the standard equally. The absolute fact of the matter is that it was NEVER applied equally by the liberals.

You point out that we didn't lose one person in Libya. I would suggest to you that, other than maybe a few CIA operatives in Libya, the reason why we didn't lose any in Libya was because there weren't any in Libya to lose.

I also notice that you conveniently leave out Obama's escalation of Afghanistan. Do you remember that?? Do you remember that Obama has increased the number of troops there?? Why do you not mention that war??

I'll tell you why, it's because liberals want to try and convey the impression that in all of Obama's actions, not one soldier has died. And it is a complete and absolute lie by omission. We've lost hundreds, if not more, in Afghanistan over the last 3 years under Obama.

Since you mention the recession, tell me. What was the highest unemployment rate under Bush?? Obama's is still higher after 3 years.

What was the highest yearly budget deficit (including war spending) under Bush? Obama's is higher.

What was the height of the stock market under Bush?? Obama still hasn't gotten back there.

Are there more people on food stamps and welfare under Bush or Obama. Obama.

And I could give you many more. By almost any economic metric you want to use, Obama is an economic idiot, and in almost any category you want to compare, his numbers are worse than Bush.

You can not get out of a problem caused by government spending, with even more government spending.

But, just to prove to you that I'm consistent. I thought Bush was an absolute idiot on spending too, not to mention half a dozen other areas where I thought Bush sucked.

The difference is that I'm not a Republican, so it's very easy for me to say where I thought he was a screw up. Just as I have no problem identifying the areas where I agree with Obama. Those are all military just by coincidence, with the exception of his deciding to completely pull out of Iraq right now. That one is going to jump up and bite him in the a$$.

Liberals however, have an uncontrollable knee jerk reaction to try and defend everything Obama does, even if it is something Bush also did, and the liberals trashed him for it. The desire to defend the "Dear Leader" can't be stopped by a little thing like lies and blatant hypocrisy.

Conservative: You sure do spend a lot of time seeking equivalence between Presidents Bush and Obama where there is none. Bush was a C student drop out, AWOL, drunkard, cokehead. Obama was a Harvard Constitutional Law graduate who worked for the community on the mean streets of Chicago. Bush started a preemptive war on false pretexts (never done before). Obama finished that war with dignity. Even Reagan bombed Gaddafi's tent and Bush placated him. Obama organized an international effort to secure a free Libya on THEIR terms and made a new ally. Bush let Bin Laden buy his way out of Tora Bora, Obama killed him deep in Pakistan. Bush deregulated the financial industry, Obama (although blocked all the way) has added new regulations for derivatives and credit default swaps. Bush would have let GM die, Obama turned it around to be profitable and saved 1 million jobs (and didn't lose too much tax money on the investment). Bush drove the bus into a ditch in reverse (R), Obama has got it out of the ditch and put it in Drive. Bush created universal disdain for the US, Obama has created much more good will. Bush gave tax breaks to those that don't need it, Obama has been trying to revert that as was PROMISED by the congress at the time. Bush started this recession and trended a massive drop in job growth, Obama has trended it upward consistently. Etc. They are not equal, thus the critique of Bush is valid and the Obama policies are simply better. Life is not fair.

This is the time when you need someone in control who's calm and level headed...and we all know who that is! He's proven himself to me!

Apparently you dont live in the Obama knee-jerked bombed areas of Libya!

ConservativeNotRepublicanI also notice that you conveniently leave out Obama's escalation of Afghanistan. Do you remember that?? Do you remember that Obama has increased the number of troops there?? Why do you not mention that war??

I'll tell you why, it's because liberals want to try and convey the impression that in all of Obama's actions, not one soldier has died. And it is a complete and absolute lie by omission. We've lost hundreds, if not more, in Afghanistan over the last 3 years under Obama

Again you twist the truth. Who got us in the war with Afganistan, "BUSH". Who then left Afganistan and went on a personal vendetta into Iraq? "BUSH" did without accomplishing the mission he went into Afganistan in the first place wich was to get Osama Bin Laden. Who did finish the reason we went into Afganistan? Oh yea, thats right, Obama.

Not sure why Republicans like to twist the truth, but you seem to do it alot.

Also there is nothing Knee-jerk about Libya. Everything went according to plan, and if you ask the people over there, you will find that most are happy with the results.

totally

bob, dang, I hate it when that happens.

Or we could use the Chicago style approach that Obama is used to:

"Uhh, nice nukes facility ya gots there. Be uh shame if anyting happened to it. Not dat I would know bouts tings like dat ya unnerstan, but tings do happen ya know. Yep, id be a real shame."

really? "enuf?" And you're calling them dumb?

Conservative brainless Republican you do talk just like Bush.And i like your comparing of Bush in Iraq to Obama in Libya. How many Americans died in Libya in which the fighting was over in months. And how many in Iraq. Being a conservative republican shouldnt make you an idiot. But it does make you blind. If Obama was a member of the GOP with his same actions you, yes, you, would want him on Mt.Rushmore

tw1sted:

Being a conservative republican shouldnt make you an idiot

First of all, I am not a Republican. Since you apparently can't apply even a modicum of reading comprehension to my nic, it certainly puts the rest of your post in the category of highly suspect as to the degree of competence I should assign you in your ability to actually understand the rest of it, which apparently isn't a hell of a lot.

Second, so using your logic, Obama actions are justified...but only as long as an "acceptable" number of people die? Funny how all of the liberals who were screaming about Bush killing civilians suddenly shut up when Obama started killing a few of his own with his cruise missile attacks.

Using your logic, I guess the numbers were perfectly fine to you as long as they didn't exceed a certain threshold, regardless of whether they were American or not. And for that matter, you had no idea at the time as to how long the conflict might last, and it may indeed flare up again in Libya, or Egypt or any of a number of other places.

I guess the fact that liberals screamed for 8 years about Bush is killing civilians, and Bush didn't get permission, and Bush is fighting an "illegal" war, and all other manner of other pissing and moaning BS, just goes right over your head, because you don't have the mental capability to see your own hypocrisy. Don't worry, most liberals don't have that ability either, so you've got lots of delusional hypocritical company.

Third, as I said, I supported both the actions of Bush and Obama, but the one area I didn't get into, just because I didn't want to post a novel was the fact that after 2 years, I turned against the Iraq war because it became clear that Bush and the rest of the liberal politicians weren't going to let our troops fight to win, but were willing to let many die so they could fight not to lose.

The fact that now that we have left, and sectarian violence is already starting again proves that we didn't do the job right, and for that I blame Bush far more than Obama. But Obama is the one who made the decision to pull out in order to try and score political points. By this coming summer, that decision will come back to bite him in the a$$ big time as the violence escalates.

And finally, as I said, I support Obama in all of the actions he took. I have no problem with any of them.

So look tw1sted, next time you decide to try and take me on, at least attempt to have the mental acumen to try and make a decent argument. On this go around, you failed right out of the gate, from my nic on down to each and every other poorly made point you attempted. Better luck next time.

The larger point is that we would not have had to get out of Iraq, if the dunderhead Bush had not gotten us in to Iraq. He did it with the cooperation of the Zionist controlled media, who trumpeted all the lies of the neocons to the people and our politicians.

That same media is again trumpeting lies and half truths about Iran. Our Jewish politicans, like Brad Sherman, working hard for Israel are writing legislation to place the sanctions on Iran and trying to goad them into an act of defiance, so America will have an excuse for another war for Israel. The media keeps repeating that Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons, as if it were a fact. All 16 US intelligence agencies concluded that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. Why does the media, except for the NY Times, not post that fact?

The Zionists particpated in 9/11, by setting the explosives to bring down the 3 towers into their own footprints. Their big mistake was doing it to Bldg 7, which came down in 6.5 seconds, despite not even being hit. They wanted a war against Iraq and they believed they would get it if they could blame 9/11 on Iraq.

your a @!$%#ing idiot! Didnt you ever hear of collateral damage? that building sustained so much damage it eventually collapsed much later. Im not even going to mention the rest of the crap u babbled about except what 16 us intelligence agencies are u referring to? Oh by the way, someday someone is going to uncover a @!$%# load of wmd material hidden in syria by guess who.

more like 3 HOURS

This is true if we dont get a nuke shoved up or ass for being too close to them. Unlike the US, Iran does not give a @!$%# about what the world thinks and we all know what Iran's leader feels about his religion and all of the virgins just waiting for him:)

If Iran was to pop off a nuke in that scenario. Israel would be on them like stink on poop.

If they want to close the waterway...it'll be the US, all of Europe, Japan and Korea to "reopen" it. Let's just say you wouldn't want to be an Iranian dude with a missile launcher or machine gun in the water or on the coast.

Let's give the Iranians their 72 virgins as soon as possible...

Seen a map? Iran's a "bit" bigger than Iraq. And they have a military that hasn't been depleted by the first Gulf War, like Saddam. Don't whinge when your country is broke and the only job you can get is a job making bombs or being bombed.

embrace: yes Iran has even more sand than Iraq. But even at their best they fought Iraq for 8 years. You really think if Europe, Japan, Korea, Israel and the US wanted to keep the straights open they couldn't? Iran is run by fools and no one has a beef with the people. But the fools can be defeated, regardless of how much sand they have.

I wonder what colors would come from a Tomahawk missle accidentally igniting Iraq's nuclear weapons storage.

mike: I wonder where they're finding all those virgins. 72 wives. ecckk.. that would be 72 more mother-in-laws. :/

Go wave your Chinese made US Flag somewhere else.

@Imoen, we get good prices on our Chinese flags and we like China. However, the real flags are made since the 1800s at You seem to be a weakling who hates the strength of America, even when we're first to provide aid in a disaster. Our war in Iraq was misguided, yes (thanks Cheney)...but not nearly as misguided as the evil scum that continues to bomb innocent civilians around the globe. We'll never apologize for hunting such scum down...try not to be one of them.

Imoen needs a smack in the mouth as well.

Evil scum, the mirror is calling all of us. I laugh my a?? off..People with all the hate and answers at the same time, It's smack down time for this whole scum hole.

@Peter

but not nearly as misguided as the evil scum that continues to bomb innocent civilians around the globe.

How many innocent Iraqi lives lost mate? And you wonder why the world has no respect for America or it's people.
Good Luck.

We do it because if we let up and lose control of them it'll cost us even more the regain. It's just cheaper in the long run.

But who appointed the US the worlds cop and ensurer of open sea lanes haflway across the world? Wait for it...we decided for the rest of the world...trust me, if there wasn't oil you nor anyone else would care...

The US spends trillions on its military to keep big business happy. We create an environment where they can profit.

We do it because we are the 1% helping out the 99% of the world... so they won't camp in our parks

Iran has responsibilities in the World. If they want to stick a thumb in the world's eye then they should expect the world's fist on the nose. Most of the IEDs in Iraq came from Iran which stretched the war out as long as they could (evil)...now they are going to rain hate on the Sunnis.

Shoot thats easy, the EPA is why we don't use our resources.

Shepard: No, the environment is the reason why we aren't using our resources WISELY! The EPA isn't stopping this....they are protecting our planet for our children and on and on. Apparently, you don't care if your children or grandchildren breathe unhealthy air or eat food with faux hormones, or drink water full of mercury and other chemicals from fracking. If this doesn't bother you, then full speed ahead! Personally, I THANK the EPA for their concern about our future!!

Oh yeah, nice, Didi. Have the EPA limit our domestic oil production because it might affect our precious environment, and cause our children to breathe unhealthy air, blah, blah, blah. Well, has it ever occurred to you that people in those other countries that supply us with all that oil would like a healthy environment for their children too? The US is the world's biggest consumer of oil. What gives us the right to pollute their environment by extracting all their oil, while leaving ours buried in the ground, just because we don't want to possibly mess up our pristine environment? We'd much rather mess up theirs. What a self-centered, selfish bunch of people your liberals are.

LOL @ Didi... we wouldnt want a polar bear on the north shore to feel intruded upon, since this is HIS planet... or wait a minute, WE live here too dont we? Have you even SEEN the north shore? It's not beautiful like the news shows, its desolate, it looks like the surface of the moon. A derrick here and there would look nice on the Alaskan landscape, especially if it cuts fuel costs in half!

GADude...we don't have the same oil here. The oil we do have is really expensive to get and not just to avoid another Gulf disaster. It's locked in Canada's sands, or way offshore. We waste more oil every day than all the output combined. I'm sure you can at least agree that properly using the limited oil we do have is a good idea and coming up with alternatives is an even better idea. Oil isn't going to last forever dude...get over it and move on with Yankee know-how. Quit whining about how much more we should rape the land to get that last tank for your Escalade filled.

later mike : ) thx for playing

Boy, that name and your right wing war machine loving attitude lead me to one conclusion: IA. ScooterTramp is actually Scooter Libby.

alwaysanother--

Read for detail, please. The US is planning sanctions TARGETING IRANIAN OIL. We're already willing to forgo the Iranian oil, and in fact, the US doesn't currently import any oil from Iran. The sanctions, which we are lobbying for in the UN, is to prevent other countries from buying their CRUDE oil. Interestingly enough, Iran is an exporter of crude oil, but an importer of petroleum products. The one refinery they have does not refine enough crude into gasoline/jet fuel/diesel/plastics to meet their needs, so they ship out the crude and ship back the gas.

Hitting their refinery means all the oil they are sitting becomes useless to them. As long as we can effectively enforce an embargo of imported petroleum products, they'll be reduced to sailboats and pulling their tanks with camels.

How many camels does it take to pull a tank?

dunno, they all got married off to the mullahs...

Otter54-GOOD ONE!!!! lmao

You'll pay one way or another. The REAL cost is coming, fool! Europeans ARE paying 10 bucks and at least Germany is doing just fine...because they actually MAKE great stuff.

The Strait of Hormuz is Iran's ace in the hole and has been for some time. And it has been blocked on prior occasions.

Even if they cannot prevail militarily they could cause major global economic damage. But I don't think Obama will be making that mistake anytime soon. Most notably because he does not have a team of advisors who have been scheming for the last decade to commit such an action or an event like 9/11 to distract the public. A reminder Bush 41 took us to war in the Gulf and even "won" the conflict but he lost the next election. And the idea of war is far less popular today.

vox...actually they attempted to block the straights when Reagan was in office. It did not work out real well for them

It's not gonna happen...it's not just the US that would stop it.

We would see just how bad the French are at standing up for them selves. They would be stuck in a Monty Python comedy skit. "I fart in your general Direction" Or as my Grand father called them.....Cheese eating surrender monkeys!

Economy is turning around huh?? where about do you live I want to move....

North Dakota my friend.

The economy in Hawaii is doing pretty well too. Of course, if you do plan on moving there, expect to pay about $1000 a month to rent a tiny studio apartment.

A-Men for that. However, I'm pretty sure Iran can be dominated primarily by Sorties so I guess it's all ok that our ground pounders aren't in the region...

Anyone who thinks that defeating Iran would be easy is delusional.

@boom

defeating them is relitivly easy, occupation is another matter..

Absolutley, It would be easy to bring them to their knees. Hell Israel could do it. The key would be to let them fend for themselves after and not feel like we have to rebuild the country.Just let them flounder for a few hundred more years. Or better yet the the Saudi's deal with them.

Israel cannot do it on their own! Israel relies on the threat of an overt American threat, as well as, logistical supply support in order to keep the remainder of the middle east at bay. Israel has a supreme technological edge with regard to their military, but once the smart bombs, cruise missiles, and jet fuel run out they are back to fighting on equal footing with their neighbors; neighbors who outnumber Israel 25 - 1.

If Israel engages Iran it will be the beginning of the end of the American supremacy in the region. Economically, neither Israel nor the US can afford a shooting war in the region.

Absolutley, It would be easy to bring them to their knees.

Not without incurring pretty major collateral damages. That was the point.

Not like that really matters when it's not your stuff getting blown up anyways...

We don't need to "defeat" Iran. Just reopen the Straits and take out their nuclear program. Cleaning up the resulting mess will be their problem.

We should have had all the troops collect a bucket of oil for the trip home, as well.

Hello? Tyrants of the world? We just left the worlds 2nd more productive natural resourses unsecured. We're not babysitting it anymore. Who wants first dictatorship?

We don't need to "defeat" Iran. Just reopen the Straits and take out their nuclear program. Cleaning up the resulting mess will be their problem.

Since they would take those actions as an act of war, yes we would need to "defeat" them after doing that.

Hello? Tyrants of the world? We just left the worlds 2nd more productive natural resourses unsecured. We're not babysitting it anymore. Who wants first dictatorship?

I hear opportunity knocking. I call dibs!

You missed the part where international maritime channels are excluded. The strait is only 21 miles wide, so Oman and Iran both have claim under the 12 mile rule. But, international law recognizes the 4 mile channels and buffer area as not being under either jurisdiction. Both Oman and Iran have the legal right to monitor traffic in the strait, but no right whatsoever to determine who can use the strait or when they can use it or for what. Even military ships have more rights within the strait than they would in any other territorial waters.

Also realize that the maritime channel in the strait is much closer to Oman than to Iran, and in fact is far past the 12 mile (post WWII) territorial limits. Then we throw in the 2 facts that the US has never signed these agreements (UNCLOS) and that UNCLOS also gives islands as part of the territory and the beginning of the 12 miles. In this case there are disputed islands in the strait which both Iran and UAE claim, thus the 12 mile rule really ends up meaningless in this debate.

@Matt where you and your teabagging friends are concerned there is only one choice - stupidity.

Oppps, sorry obama supporter...

stop...a real expert on teabagging arent you?

Foolish statement.

Countries go to war over resources, and only resources.

Even the crusades were about Europe wanting to get in on that sweet, sweet silk road.

/Truth

Liberal, he's as much an expert on baggers as you are on liberals or intelligence.

lol @ teknishan. The crusades were a response from a group of people tired of taking crap from Islamists. Ironic, isnt it?

Those whom do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

You are in idiot. Armchair politicians are as foolhardy as armchair QB's with the lack of accolades to match.

The first victor of a shooting war with Iran is me.

I just bought a bunch of Exon stocks. Big oil all the way baby!!

StoptheTeaParty: Your analysis is about as stupid as anything I have ever read. Was your grandfather Archie Bunker?

The Bin Laden family, of which Osama was only one in dozens, is a legitimate business enterprize. Your comment about them shows how unwitting you are about the Bin Laden - America connection.

How is it our military complex got the chief of the Iranian navy to kick off a ten day exercise and make the public comment he made?

You, like so many, seem quick to blame America for every wrongdoing. Take some time to consider Iran, they are no vestal virgin, in fact, they are the biggest troublemaker in the Middle East.

Iran is itching for a fight, they just are not ready yet. If or when they are, they will pull the trigger. You will say it's about oil, we started it. Of course it will be about oil (as well as other issues). For them, it's revenue, for us it's the economy.

Yeah, you love sausage, but criticize how it gets made.

stop...time for your meds fruitloop

Liberallies: Can't disagree that he needs a few meds, can he get some of your leftovers? You don't seem to be taking yours either.

You conservatives crack me up. If Obama does something about this 'crisis' with Iran, you will say he is committing us to another war or worse. If he does nothing, you will be up in arms over that as well. Why can't you once choose a side and actually stick with it? Perhaps like your leading republican candidates for President, it's okay to switch sides whenever you feel like it with no accountability.

Get a clue.

Another Oboobatron speaks.

And is answered by an even lower form of life, the FoxShillapotomus.

Described in most texts the Foxshillapotomus is a fat, slimy troll too lazy for real work it instead spends its days pretending to have intelligence while spouting lies and launching personal attacks on anyone and everyone who doesn't toe the Fox lie, hoping some day to be given a rich contract with Fox allowing them to run for office without having to actually stand for anything beyond an obsessive hatred of everything not Fox.

and you're better....how? you just did the same thing you chimp.

@Roger re. Iran.

they are the biggest troublemaker in the Middle East.

I believe the biggest "troublemaker" in the Mid East may indeed be the US of A. Two long drawn wars, one without UN approval, making it ILLEGAL. Countless loss of civilian lives, a possible civil war in Iraq. The list goes on.
Iran has a right to protect itself and it's oil.

They have not forgotten it either and the straits are now lined with dug in artillery and Silkworm Missiles.

You want to get froggy, then go ahead and jump. Be ready to pay at the pump.

Pay at the pump? Fine, but let's not let those people control the Straits and dictate oil prices. Further, I doubt the Arab oil exporters want Iran to control the straits. Iran will not have any allies on this one, and for good reason, they will be the anitgonists should this escalate into conflict.

I'll be happy to pay at the pump for a while as long as theres a real hot shiny glass surface where Tehran used to be.

You are a loser shut up. I bet there is something else about you also wont mention what that might be. Dont talk to loud you might draw some unwanted attention. You are a communist.

Nah. I am an American Hero.

You want to look for Commies? Go look in the GOP party. Half of them carry Mao's little Red Commie book in their hip pockets.

Americans are glad to make every sacrifice in order to protect our middle east friends from Iran.

Itcommander72: You come across as a self-interested TiVo icon who is only concerned about his gas guzzler and damn the rest.

Itcommander

I've got more than a years supply of food, water, gas, ammo, off grid PV systems and land to plant on. I can most certainly weather $10/gal. Bring it on.

ITFakeCommander....Chairborne Warrior is more like it

Bob Stein: I think you meant, American business is ready to let low and middle income Americans sacrifice and do without so that the rich can maintain their profit margins and increase their percentage of the GNP.

ltcommander: Now you see what your saved us for. The teabaggers only consider heroes to be people who are rich and hate everyone else. Either that or those who share their single wide on the back of Uncle Henry's pig farm. Unlike teabaggers (GOP) I say to all who served, no matter their politics, thank you!

wow Daryl, how do you sleep at night with all that hate festering inside you?

One thing is for sure, the Pres will not make a move without Congress 100% on board after you accused him of making war on Libya.

Better call your Congressman. Oh wait. They are all on vacation.

Unlike Bush, who when deciding how to respond to 9/11 put together an invasion of Iraq.
Hmmm... If he was still in charge this latest bs from Iran might inspire him to invade Cuba... Now that's a thought.

Is that anything like when we were attacked from Afganistan and Bubba Clinton attacked Bosnia?

liarofliberals: Wow, what kind of logic brought that one up? After your side and their BS about "wagging the dog" when Clinton went after bin Laden in Afghanistan you now want to pretend the totally unrelated Bosnian campaign had anything to do with bin Laden, Afghanistan or terrorists in any way?

If you believe that I can now understand how your right wing lies are so easily believed by the minions. You count on those listening to be uninformed, unwilling to find the facts on their own, and stupid enough to listen to people with no sense of reality.

Daryl, It is safe to say, with comments like that, you are as dumb as a rock, and wear the liberal moniker well!

Daryl, for your Information, Clinton didn't do a thing to stop Terrorist. Count the times we had Embassies Blown up during Clinton's time in Office. PLUS the USS Cole. He was a Wussy, he talked a good Talk. He had his chance many times but was to busy with Monica,

Daryl, if I were to believe you, everything liberals say is absolute truth and everything said that disagrees with what ever you say is a lie. Where as the real truth lies somewhere in the middle most of the time. To be honest I do not know anyone that believes as you do! I know plenty of people in the middle, which sometimes makes me believe that a few of these moderate people are really liberals that wont out themselves in public.I voted for both Mr Carter and Mr Clinton and under the right circumstance would vote for Hillary, I just dont see this president being elected without a republican congress. I fear what he will do unchecked and lameduck.

Wow, the Fox trolls took offense? GOOD! You three very much match my description of GOP/TP followers/minions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know... Clinton was a wuss and Obama is a Kenyan. Do you trolls actually have any facts on your side or is everything in your life made up on the spot to make you happy regardless of reality?

And jolly, sorry but I'm liberal in social aspects, true conservative in fiscal aspects and beholden to no party. I'm an American, not a party hack. Mostly though I'm a true believer in secular America and disgusted by those who believe any country can be run as a theocracy even when hidden behind the false moniker of Republic.

A little light on facts yourself there daryl, or does the standard just apply to others?

No, actually, Daryl is pretty clear on his facts!

@ LiberalLies

Research the Dayton Accord, NATO Operation Deliberate Force, IFOR, SFOR, or perhaps just genocide and you might understand why we were involved in Bosnia. Also note that NATO again attacked Serbia via air strikes to put an end to genocide taking in place in Kosovo in 1999. Take a look at Operation Allied Force, or Noble Anvil and KFOR.

Though I have a feeling you will deny the fact genocide was committed and we had any moral obligation to be involved.

LOL- you are right lukewarm.... Obama might even bomb Libya again if Iran doesn't simmer down!