You're diluted if you think them attacking us would classify as "policing the world".

LOL

Iran attacking the USA would be a joke. They do not have nuclear weapons capability, nor can they produce enough gasoline to power thier navy.

How again are they going to attack us?

Im sorry fighting preemptive wars does not solve anyones problems ( see iraq for examples)

Reading this article, and those on this same subject matter over the past few months, makes one wonder why? Why would Iran, possessed of such abundance of natural resource wealth and scientific brain-power and cultural talent, CHOOSE a course of belligerence toward the rest of the world?

Why would Iran not instead choose to embrace, and excel at normal trade & commerce, normal diplomatic and social relations, normal coexistence with the rest of the world's peoples and governments, and use its enormous potential to raise-up Iran and its people?

It is bewildering why the government of any country so rich with resources and potential of its populace would CHOOSE such self-defeating behavior toward the rest of the world when trade, diplomacy, honest outreach and social relations is so much easier and potentially rewarding for all of that nations people (including those in government).

This CHOSEN course by Iran defies logic and common sense.

brenden...if Iran attacks US ships in the straights and we retaliate...how is that pre-emptive war? Do you have the slightest clue what your talking about?

TheMirror:

It's usually a trick to make you read that which isn't read-worthy. Also, attention-whoring.

I see someone posting in all-bold...BLOCK.

We all know the Iranian government is stupid, I had no idea they were suicidal as well. If they block the straits, they aren't just hurting us, they would hurt all other countries that depend on that shipping channel, and it would result in an all-out war between Iran and the rest of the Middle East. Of course, that would solve the problem for us. The Saudis and others would probably bomb Iran into nonexistence long before Obama could even sign the attack order, assuming he would have the guts to do so.

@ Cats

I certainly hope he wouldn't considering it would be another illegal war by presidential decree.

If we want to go to war why are the politicians so scared to actually declare it?

First , we have the biggest and best strike force Navy in the world; second; Iran by now does have Nuclear weapons by now, if they would Iran would light up light a volcano.

Maybe we should stop giving Iran's enemies nuclear weapons (Israel) and then we wouldn't have to worry so much about their desires to develop a nuclear weapon. The U.S. has no leg with which to stand on in this argument. If Iran is able to build a nuclear bomb it is only because they bought the tecnology from Pakistan, technology that we gave them, for free.

Iran is doing nothing but rattling sabers. They need to sell their oil just as much as others need to buy it. Keep the sanctions in place and stop caving in to maniacs who think their oil is the end all to everything. If they don't sell their oil, they can drink it. I don't think they will like the taste very much.

Those who think we are superior because we have a bigger arsenal would do well to remember that it costs money to engage in a fight and right now we don't have any.

The religious fanatics controlling Iran just won’t be happy until they bring all out war and crushing defeat to their own country.

IF and only if Iran blocks the Straights of Hormuz we will have to consider military action. This would amount to hijacking the global economy with a likely immediate result of fuel prices tripling and a(nother) global economic collapse.

Iran would be wise to show better judgement than the continued belligerence and threats. These feed the hawks and chickenhawks who would like nothing more than a new front to send our treasured young adults off to die.

I hope that an Arab Spring heads for the current Iranian regime and that these threats from Ahmadumba$$ and his Mullah handlers are some of their last !!

The media has been queued, now let the propaganda war against Iran begin now that we are no longer in Iraq!

Countdown to Iran invasion: 335:23:59:59, 335:23:59:58.......

The Western military complex at its best.

What a bunch of idiots. The way the US and the rest is behaving and have bucket loads of nuclear warheads is nothing more than being the big bully on the block.

Western gunboat policy at its best, trying to relive the Chinese gunboat hay days from before.

How many have to die before some sanity arises. Nowing history and mankinds proclivity to do stupid and insane things i have the feeling that only when the body bags come home thy MIGHT rethink their stupid actions

Then again the west are economic basket cases and let's see if they, the spin doctors, can con the younger generation with all that patriotic bullsh*t to die for king and country. SORRY I mean to die for Wall Street

Bob in Oregon: the reason any totalitarian state like Iran does stupid things like this is the same reason it has been done by all such powers throughout history -- to divert the attention of their people from their own miserable existence and problems and to cater to the the napolean complexes of these very short leaders with their very small penises.

We started the whole problem. If we did not threaten sanctions, they would not threaten to cut off oil. If we did not continue to attack countries with no nuclear capability, they would not see that they needed nuclear weapons. Seems like the quickest way to get the US to invade is to give up nuclear capability. Who most suffers with sanctions--the people. Who will the people blame--the US. Just make the rulers more secure. We do not learn from histroy, so we keep repeating the mistakes. We are just stupid.

Robert in Oregon,

Because conservatism in the country makes them stupid.

Some of you obviously aren't paying attention: these are ACTUAL threats being made to the global media by THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAN, not the "western military-industrial complex".

While I hope that conflict can be avoided and do not believe preventing Iran from becoming a nuclear nation is worthy of war from the West (yet), I am (and have been) paying attention enough to the situation to know that Iran is the aggressor (and has been for 32 years), not the West.

There is no need to put carriers anywhere near Iran. There is no need to go to war. No need for troops on the ground. From a distance, we can destroy every military asset they use against gulf shipping. Just like Iraq, the weapons they have spent decades acquiring can be blown away in an afternoon.

Due to their national insanity, they will strike out against anyone they can reach, so the Saudis and the Israelis need to be ready to take out Iran's missiles.

With their military assets destroyed, perhaps the arab spring can rise in Iran.

Iran by now does have Nuclear weapons by now, if they would Iran would light up light a volcano.

Ah. Russia and China would not allow that to happen. Any action taken against Iran would also be taken against an ally of Russia and China. Heck this article stated that about 50% of the oil going through the straits goes to China. China would not allow things to disrupt their oil flow.

How again are they going to attack us?

By sinking ships in the straits, and making passage almost impossible.

If the Democrat liberals and environazis would allow us to drill in America, maybe this would be a non-story. Anyone ever think of that? Of the top three oil importing nations the US gets its oil from, two are in the Americas: Canada as #1 and Mexico as #2 (Saudi Arabia is #3). In fact, the majority of our oil is NOT imported from the Middle East.

Obama punted on the Canadian oil pipeline project (Canada will just sell their oil to China). I remember about 18 years ago one Mr. Bill Clinton, president at the time, stated that supporting domestic drilling expansion would be useless because it would take two decades to start really making a difference. Well guess what? It's nearly two decades later "Slick" Willy. And that slick reference sure isn't over spilled oil.

Iran threatened on Tuesday to stop the flow of oil shipments through the crucial Strait of Hormuz if foreign sanctions were imposed on its crude exports over its nuclear ambitions

Are you Libs ready to drill baby drill yet? This can be the best thing that ever happened to us

Naaa, perpetual war sounds much better. Save the Caribou! (that enjoy the heat off the Alaskan pipeline)

It is the thought that counts, not results!!!!

XRAYSPEX.... You have obviously not been around for too long or washed in with the last tide.....all this posturing and rhetoric is brought to you by the World Wide Military Industrial Complex. They need war and the rumor of war to continue to strip the taxpayer of every single dime it can shake loose. It's the people that "can be fooled all the time" that play right in to their hands.

WAR= Profit in exchange for misery, mayhem, death and destruction of someone else's property, children and pursuit of happiness.

You can't have war without an enemy and now that Obama when and killed the last convenient enemy OBL (don't wonder why Bush didn't, I can assure you that they did not want him dead as he was a convenient enemy "figurehead" which allowed the continuing of profit taking in Iraq and Afghanistan) so they are in the process of creating another one, Iran.

This is the same country that battled their neighbor Iraq for 10 years to a standstill......they are but a noisy fly, about as much a threat to the US as Canada.

What did Saddam have to hide? All his bluster got him hanged in the end. Don't underestimate Iran. Using nukes anywhere in the world creates a problem for everybody, radiation blows on the wind and circulates in the seas. This is no joke, the mentality of Iran's powers that be seems to be beyond western comprehension. You might just consider the entire country of Iran as one big suicide bomber. Dying in a holy Jihad is a win to them and a big lose for the rest of us. They may have enough nuclear material to poison the the environment enough to take the planet back to cockroaches. One nuke could distribute it pretty well. I'd rather be at ground zero than die slowly of radiation sickness. But quite frankly, I'd rather not die at all, at least not right now.

As much as some of you hate to believe, Iran is a sovereign country with a sovereign government with a right to defend themselves as they choose. They do business with countries in Asia and Europe, and want to be left alone. These sanctions are meaningless; lift them. They have no desire to attack anyone, and want respect of other countries. No more wars, please, just respect and peace.

Iran is working on nuclear weapons......at their nuclear power plant......they lied to NATO and the US.....about that.......the state department is going ...i cant believe they lied to us.....really? they use to be persia remember

they are not Arabs.......they are mullas.....they have been causing trouble for over 2000 years in that region.....it's what they have always done......

make no mistake.......when they get their bombs ready they ARE going to use them ......no question there .....the only question is who they are gonna use them on first......Israel or the US.....the jews stand ready to destroy their power plant.......and rightly so.......ever wonder why they do not use solar power? good question huh? Iran wants to be a major world power and they will stop at nothing to do so.......and the fact that the entire country is run by religious fanatics.......does not help THIS is the reason we have the separation of church and state.......so religion does not run the country and is used to control the people.......like in Iran......

I say call their bluff, and if they are stupid enough to try anything stupid then they would have made the first move not us .......

OK, enough is enough! If they try ANYTHING I say we turn their country into a glass parking lot!!!!

Are you Libs ready to drill baby drill yet? This can be the best thing that ever happened to us

Hey you conservs... are you ready to uncapbabyuncap yet? The conservs whine about not being able to drillbabydrill but even when they do drillbabydrill, they simply capbabycap and put on the futures markets and play poker with the oil prices.

We and Isreal should have knocked em down a few notches ages ago. Repeatedly. I say do it now. Intel knows where to hit em. So hit em already!

The conservs whine about not being to drillbabydrill but even when they do drillbablydrill, they simply capbabycap and put on the futures markets and play poker with the oil prices.

War it is then,,,have it your way

War it is then,,,have it your way

Much better than uncapping the hundreds to perhaps thousands of wells we already have just sitting there playing out to the high bidder huh? Why would I even consider letting another well be drilled when it is bought with foreign leases which take ownership of the contents and then simply drilled, capped and sold to highest bidders on the open market and if anything goes wrong, the taxpayers pay for that as well. Drilling has absolutely no benefits to the consumers anymore.

I have family that has land in Nevada being paid royalties right this very moment for oil. This oil then moves on to the free market. We could talk about isolationism if you like...I love the idea. It certainly wont happen in our current two party system.

yup

Question: Does Iran have refineries?

If they do not then they are simply postering. Where will they get the gasoline they need from?

This is just attention seeking behaviour on Iran's part don't you think?

At least this shows that they are concerned enough about the sanctions to make such a threat in the first place, as such a move would also only serve to decrease the revenues that their country receive from sale of their oil.

Now, are they willing to live with the decreased revenues and gas, which would only serve to agitate further that country's already agitatied populace or what?

Anyway they are still talking... so there is hope that diplomacy can or will eventually bring a resolution that the region can live with.

Now is the time for the countries in the Middle East to try talking to each other and try to resolve their issues rather than depending on the West to sacrifice the lives of their young people while also bearing the enormous financial cost in these conflicts/wars.

It is definately time for the USA to go back to a regional economy and dealing with regional issues and let those other countries deal with their own regional issues themselves the best way they see fit imo.

If Iran wanted to harm the US, a much easier way to do it than obstructing the Hormuz passage would be to stop taking US dollars as payment for oil. You'd see a MASSIVE decline in the stock market the next day.

MikeLa,

How about we Dig, Drill and Build and once we get that energy to market start uncappin too. If we uncap with out drilling, then we will have no reserves in the future.

Just say NO to big oil. They don't want us energy independent. Why do you think they are the biggest doners to envirowackos?

American Energy Independence NOW! I'm sick of my buds diein in the ME. No MORE blood for oil.

Jail da BANKSTERS, Oil Execs and corrupt Politicians.

This is true mac...big oil and big government are really one in the same. If we really knew the @!$%# that goes on between corporate entities and government, you would spontaneously combust with anger. We see one frozen H20 molecule of the hidden iceberg. Protecting big Government at the expense of big business is a fools game.

Right On Korn fed,

Us simple inbreds can see this crony corporate facist system growin on steroids at the expense of small business and the middlecalss. Yet all we hear about is da class warfare retoric from El Presidenteee while he got over 10 TIMES the fundin from Wall Street than Mc Cain did.

Does that mean McCain was liget? H3LL NO. It just meands da Repugs are cheaper hoes! The Blue/Red game is fixed. IT's nothin but good cop/bad cop game.

PS: We can't forget BP gave the ONE over a MIllion for the 2008 campeign and is the biggest owner of the Chicago and London Carbon exchange. LOL!

For all the deihard patriotic folks who want to threaten War with Iran, or not threaten but actually go to war I say go for it. BUT, ONLY if all US true patriotic Americans do it right. I mean no going to war unless it is funded upfront. I don't mean just allocation of funds. I mean all the diehard patriots need to send actual cash in to Uncle Sam, checks are OK to as long as they are clearly marked that the funds are only to be used for War making efforts. Once enough CASH is actually collected to fund the ENTIRE operation then the war may begin. Oh yeah, you also must designate which of you or your children will be available to fight as soldiers for the duration of whatever the war might last. It would not hurt if we imposed gas rationing too, like in WW2 to ensure that there is plenty of fuel to operate the war machine with.

So, when all the war clapper traps actually put up the funds in ADVANCE in cash sent directly in, or as an additional donation on your individual tax returns, then and only then do we start the war machine up for a trip into a new country's problems. Sooo, how about it.....who is stepping up first to get in line? Get out YOUR checkbooks, or Visa cards, the line is forming in DC.........Come on now, how come all I hear now are crickets...........

Back to the article.

Closing the Straits of Hormuz is tantamount to war. In 1967, Israel attacked because the UN was kicked out of Sinai, Egypt militarized Sinai and most important, the Straits of Tiran were closed to Israel. Like it or not, wars are initiated over blocked commerce. Why is the US so interested in ME Oil? And our largest importers are not even IN the Middle East (Mexico and Canada). And we are a net exporter anyway. But the free flow of oil in the ME effects pricing worldwide, so we are VERY interested.

And besides, Iran denies developing nukes, even though they are, and Iran states their intention to eliminate Israel. We should believe they want to destroy a country when they say it.

Again, closing Hormuz will be enough for war. The question is who will attack, Israel or the US. I will also say, a lot of the Arab Muslim countries WANT Israel to attack. Julian Ausage's papers proved that the Muslim states communicate a lot with Israel over matters like this.

And as a last point, I don't think war means regime change. War means knocking out Iran's nukes. Continued isolation will lead to the liberal young revolting against the clerics and Ahmadinijad. I don't think we need another Iraq debacle in Iran.

If the Iranians cannot sell oil on the open market, they cannot survive. People here are behaving as if they just made a random threat for no reason whatsoever. If we cut off their income, we starve them. This is what we are threatening to do. They are responding.

It might or might not be questionable whether they are able to carry these threats out, but it really isn't a question whether they are behaving weirdly or not. If you threatened to starve my kids, this is exactly how I would behave, and I think this is the way anyone would behave.

As far as this particular issue goes, the Israelis despise the Iranians. The Israelis are secure; just as the Israelis cannot hit the Iranians with much force, the Iranians cannot hit the Israelis back. No one is coming to kill any Israelis, no one is going to wipe Israel off the map. The Israeli army is capable of taking on almost all of Western Europe by themselves, the entire Middle East all together doesn't stand a chance, let alone Iran by itself.

These are all manufactured problems.

Yep, here we go Again.

I tried to tell you what Iran was up to about a couple of years ago; but, no what the f**k do I know after becoming Middle East Qualified First Middle East Language Farsi, since the 1980s.

When President Obama stated his 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, that gave Carte Blanche for Iran to do anything without US Interventions, the hand writing was etched into stone as to what Iran would do.

Go click on my david-475776 and look at my previous posts going back a couple of years. Most of you are just like the stupid Politicians that you hired, do not want to listen to any Facts that are contrary to their uninformed uneducated emotive opinions.

Ruken - Just stick a few aircraft carriers around and tell Iran to bring it on.

Smart really smart, you make sure you are on one of them (USN Aircraft Carriers). Just realize one thing, the Iranian Land Based Long Ranged Supersonic Anti Ship Missile Batteries that were specifically designed to sink USN Aircraft Carriers by defeating the USN Countermeasures and evade the USN Screening Ships.

Robert in Oregon,

Like I said before it has long been the intent of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran to get the US and US Allies out of the Middle East. Being Fundamentalist Islamic also has a lot to do with that, US as the Great Satan.

Catsclaw81,

In most cases the Iranians do not care about their Controlling the Persian Gulf and the Gulf Of Oman, as most of the Iranian Imports are coming from the Chinese and Russian Federation. Same way that the North Korean ICBMs (North Korean copies of the Chinese copies of the USSR SS-18 ICBMs) were shipped thru Bejing China, 2010 to Iran. The only people that will suck wind, will be the US and US Allies.

Dem in Texas-2291575 - Maybe we should stop giving Iran's enemies nuclear weapons (Israel)

Once again proof of your being uneducated uninformed etc. Who do you think developed Nuclear Weapons, the Jews. As far as Israel we did not give them sh!t except Arms Embargoes and Sanctions while the Arab League of Nations attacked them, that is why the Israelis built up their own Military Defense Industrial Complex. The Israelis designed and built their own Nuclear Weapons, and the scary part being believed to be similar to the former USSR designs that are NOT like the US "Redacted" or having Permissive Action Links (PAL) for Two Person Control.

Almost laughing, the Pakistanis Nuclear Weapons are of old USSR designs. NOT US, so we did not give them sh!t for free. I can even tell you exactly which old USSR Nuclear Weapons they are designed (copied) from.

And Currently the Father of the Pakistanis Nuclear Weapons Program just happens to be on a very long visit to Iran.

xrayspex - I hope that an Arab Spring heads for the current Iranian regime and that these threats from Ahmadumba$$ and his Mullah handlers are some of their last !!

Har, har, har..... Who do you think caused the Arab Spring. Look at the results, the Overthrow of US Ally President of Egypt, the Overthrow of US Ally President of Yemen, the loss of the Iraqis Northern and Southern Oil Fields, the Overthrow of US Ally Gaddaffi (President Obama's CIA Prisoners at Gaddaffi's Prisons), increased pressure on the US Ally Pakistanis Government, etc. the Final Results US Ally Saudi Arabia Surrounded. Iran's Increased Sphere of Influence as backed by the Chinese and Russian Federation (that also want the US and US Allies out of the Resources of the Middle East, Africa, Asia).

Steve-2352647 - From a distance, we can destroy every military asset they use against gulf shipping.

REALLY. You might want to subscribe to Jane's Defense Weekly, learn Farsi watch Fars brag about what Iran bought from the Chinese and Russian Federation by using the Iranian Oil Wealth, as well as their Wealth from the Iraqis Oil Contracts with the Chinese and Russian Federation. I know about their current Generation Anti Aircraft Missile Batteries and their current Generation ABM Batteries; it is not so surprising how much Iran bought with all that Oil. Versus what we currently have, and what the Saudis have, why do you think that President Obama backpeddled on his decision NOT to put land based ABMs at Eastern Europe, Romania, December 23, 2011, guess you are not privilaged to that information. Even Iran's Allies the Russian Federation are worried about Iran going nutjob, so they placed Russian Federation current advanced ABM Batteries in many former USSR Nations (Resources) starting 2009. These Russian Federation ABM Batteries were also sold to Iran, as capable of Long Range Detection and Intercepts, this advanced system is also capable of detecting and intercepting Generation V Stealth, as to how they detected the US Stealth RQ-170 and used other means to bring it down (warned that I cannot say how anymore).

10tacle,

You really believe that baloney. Before the First Gulf War, Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Europe, etc. had been Oil Laundrying Iraqis Oil during the US, UN Embargoes and Sanctions against Iraq. They bought cheap High Grade Sweet Crude Iraqis Oil then claimed it as their own; then sold the Iraqis Oil to the US for huge Profits.

During this time, many Scientists, demanded that the Iraqis Oil be Chemically "Tagged" to stop the Iraqis Oil Laundrying. The Rich Oil Corporation Lobbyists put a stop to that idea really quickly.

After the loss of the Iraqis Oil, the Saudi Arabians started Deep Sand Desert Oil Explorations. The Canadians started their environmental disaster strip mining of Oil Sand and Oil Shale, tons of materials to extract a few barrels of Oil. The Mexicans, recently authorized more High Risk Deep Water Oil Explorations (like previous BP and the Gulf Spill). The majority of the US Oil is High Sulfur Content, that was protested during the 1970s Oil Crisis as the main cause of Acid Rain (Sulfuric Acid), as the majority of US Oil was depleted during the early 1900s "Black Gold Rushes".

A Yank in Australia,

You can yank my crank "down under". The US Military Defense Industrial Complex as previously created by President FDR got the US Out of the Great Depression 1939, and is currently keeping the US Out of a Great Depression by employing almost a hundred million US Citizens.

I want the Automatic Defense Budget Cuts of 10% to occur so that one Million expensive overpaid US Civlians are thrown on Unemployment, the during the next GLOBAL Great Depression, all of you will be eating rationed Obamachow (Dog food of undetermined sources) and finally learn the hard way.

President Bush like President Clinton could not terminate Osama Bin Laden until after President Bush 2006 amended the US No Assassination Policy.

softdude,

You can tell from the other Newsvine Posters that kept saying Nuke them (Iran, Pakistan, etc.), that they believe that the Nuclear Weapons Effects stay in a nice neat circle on a map.

cynical175 - can con the younger generation with all that patriotic bullsh*t to die for king and country.

No con to it. Candidate Obama's promise to end the continous deployments of the same 1/2 of 1% of US Citizens currently in the US Military; by, instituting the Selective Service and or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service (President Obama's April 2009 US Military Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN mean "Drafted" into the US Army or USMC Ground Combat Forces. Candidate Obama during the Presidential Debates, "US Military Service is a Civic Duty", and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement". As the means to get the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military to Serve (cheap below minimum wage labor).

By the way as General Patton said, "I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country."

LOL, less than 7 months and no more Involuntary Recalls to Active Duty as "Too Old", good f**king luck muther f**kers with your Selective Service and or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service.

David

Another awesome post. Just one point. France developed Israel's nukes in the 50's at Dimon for the Israelis. There may have been French Jews among them, but it was the French that did it for them. And interestingly, as much as Israel has been viciously attacked, they have not used the nukes. I trust the Israelis with nukes more than any other nation.

Byron

Iran is incapable of wiping Israel off the face of the map...unless they have nukes. Unlike every other country in the world that has nukes, Iran is not deterred from using them. The odd part about Iran is that they used to have great relationships with Israel and they have the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East to Israel. Iran's leadership is anti Zionist, not as much anti Jewish. the people of Iran, a large percentage, is pro West and neutral to Israel.

David, typo, Israel developed nuclear abilities in the 50's but not likely weapons until the 60's. And they were viciously attacked in 73 yet did not consider using nukes. Meanwhile, Iran has no compunction about using nukes, and when they threaten to wipe Israel off the face of the map, believe them. It is interesting as you point out that the Iranians think the damage of nukes can be controlled. A nuke in Israel would likely take out a large part of the Palestinian population as well.

'david-475776' wrote:

"Yep, here we go Again. I tried to tell you what Iran was up to about a couple of years ago; but, no what the f**k do I know after becoming Middle East Qualified First Middle East Language Farsi, since the 1980s ... Go click on my david-475776 and look at my previous posts going back a couple of years. Most of you are just like the stupid Politicians that you hired, do not want to listen to any Facts that are contrary to their uninformed uneducated emotive opinions..."

REPLY: David perhaps others are not paying as much attention (as you desire) to your deep, prescient wisdom and sage foresight because your posts are novel-length ego manifestos and you come across as an arrogant, condescending, self-impressed, know-it-all twit?

I'm just sayin' ....

Lar-345817,

Just some information (talking around those matters that I should not be):

A U-2 and later SR-71 overflight determined the location and quantities of the Israelis Nuclear Weapons.

During the numerous attacks on Israel by the Arab League as demanded by the co founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Amin Al Husseini, the US had some Arabs of the Arab League of Nations, visit the US and witness a US Nuclear Weapons Test. It was days later that the Arab League of Nations stopped their near successful attack of Israel.

When I meant the Jews, consider Albert Einstein, as well as all the other German Jews that were escorted by US covert Operations out of Germany, that were later involved with the "Manhattan Project".

When I mentioned the North Korean ICBMs shipped thru Bejing China to Iran, it is not known if the Iranians bought the matching North Korean Nuclear Warheads.

The advances of the Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program can be significantly advanced if the Iranians accept the Russian Federation offer to process the Raw Iranian Uranium Ore (the hardest part) into actual Nuclear Materials (like a metal), this would put them years ahead of the estimates with the Iranians using their current Nuclear Facilities to further enrich the Russian Federation processed uranium from low to high weapons grade. Then it would be a matter of machining the design based on the specifications of what the Father of the Pakistanis Nuclear Weapons Program currently at Iran gives the Iranians.

Note: If you know the two basic designs, it would be much easier to use the simple design, making Plutonium unnecessary, the resulting Nuclear Detonation would be similar just more Nuclear Materials required.

Robert in Oregon - know-it-all twit?

Thank you for the complement, meaning you are a know nothing twit

Note: Just because you have Attention Deficit Disorder does not mean that other Newsvine Posters do not want to know all the Facts.

And as far as "twits" that is the conditioned ADD of "twits" doing one liners on Twitter.

Let's cut through some of the really silly bulls**t being bandied about here:

1. If Iran were to attack us, it would not be with a ship or missile; it would be with a locally placed and detonated explosion....possibly nuclear.

2. If the man occupying the Whitehouse, who hates that evil oil, had any common sense, he'd quit catering to his lunatic fringe supporters and lift all restrictions on oil drilling and refining; then we wouldn't give damn which lunatic middle eastern dictators cut off supply to us.

Robert in Oregon #1.4,

There is NO logic or commonsense when Shiite zealots are in control.

If they continue on the path that they have chosen, we may very well see Armageddon.

RichardWalking nailed it. This is a totally empty threat by Iran. Their strongest supporters are China and Russia. Closing the strait hurts China and Russia. Therefore there will be a quiet, well-mannered call with lovely language in which China and Russia tell Iran they will not block any shipping. Iran will respond by making threats, moving boats, setting up missile launchers but in the end they will take no action that is not sanctioned by the Chinese and Russians. That is to say they will take no action at all.

The best course of action the USA can take is no action. I would say ignore the threat all together and when Iran has to back down because their masters in Moscow and Beijing tell them to they will look like idols and the USA can sit there with a smug look on their face as if watching a petulant child after a scolding my it’s mother.

As for the dolt in the White House……..I seem to recall he said he would end all this by sitting down with these guys? How is that working out for him? Any two bit politician could have told him that bullies react with strength when met with seeming weakness. Iran is acting out because they perceive our leadership as weak. However that damage is done. Now we just have to deal with it……by doing nothing.

I think the countdown has long been over on Iran's request to be bombed. Really, at this point, shame on the west for not nuking the nuke site(s).

If someone is willing to stick in a virus that could cause a nuclear accident, it is hardly an escalation to hit their nuclear site with a bomb. In fact, if the US hadn't held Israel back, they would have done it already.

David###### you need to chill out man all that pent up anger and hatred are going to give you a heart attack.

So it was you who told everybody Iran has nuclear weapons ..... a mouthpiece for the Military Industrial Complex are we????? You're a silly person if you think the Military Industrial Complex care about you....you are just the the type of person that "can be fooled all the time" that they rely on to keep bleeding you.

So I take it your motto is War Creates Jobs So Let's Start Another War, I thought it was all those 1%ers you know the job creators that created jobs oops my bad actually those 1%ers you love so much are the MIC and they will create jobs as soon as they can get another war started. All I can say is that when they come marching up the beach at Sandringham Vic or Santa Monica or Vero Beach I will be on the front lines ...... until then you can send your children and grandchildren as fodder for the MIC mine are staying home where I can protect them.

Crawl back in to your bomb shelter until you get a grip.

All this saber rattling for what.......nothing, all these people who claim to know this about Iran and that about Iran, they have this and will do that are full of it. Iran is struggling to keep their own people in line so their "leaders" don't get caught up in the Arab Dawn happening all around them. How best to do it, the same way the MIC accomplish it in the West by saber rattling and instilling fear in people that they are going to be "attacked" by some perceived enemy.....and it seems to be working in with some of the correspondents here quite nicely.

News reels of men in white coats walking around with clip boards in a big concrete building with alot of industrial looking stuff does not mean much in Iran any more than it did in Iraq with all of their Nuclear Bombs and WMD's.

To claim that some of these correspondents know something about "history and current affairs" is ludicrous, history is very clear Iran has never been able to accomplish anything outside of their own borders and not too much inside other than keep their citizens on a short religious rein. You can't make up history and Faux News is not a very good source of current affairs.

Iran is an archaic backwards country whose citizens are kept under control via their own religious beliefs (much like the country the current religious zealots running for the GOP Nomination would like to see in America). They also have long memories of the 10 year war with Iraq that cost so dearly in life and progress and I suspect few would be signing up to take on the rest of the world after seeing what happened to Iraq.

You people need to get a grip, stop being led around by the Military Industrial Complex. Iran is a minnow the big bad boy at school puffing his chest out as long as there is a teacher around to make sure that no actual fights start.

Maybe it would be a good thing if the Straights of Hormuz was closed and ME Oil (the blood that makes the MIC dance) then we might find out that alternative sources of energy are a good thing. But why wait till the oil runs out or the flow is stopped ....... why because Big Oil, Big Bank, Big Car and bought and paid for politicians aren't interested in alternatives because they can't make money off alternatives.

Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it, and quoting a couple of bits and pieces without seeing the whole is not understanding it.

Israel has a lot of Nuclear weapons and has invaded a number of countries in the middle east.

The U.S. has a lot more than Israel and we are the only country to have used atomic weapons on another country. Our political "leaders" say we would use nukes offensively as a first strike (The so-called Bush doctrine).

So who is the bigger threat?

In polls the people who would be most effected by a nuclear Iran, the people in the middle east, say they aren't concerned about Iran having a bomb, either because they don't think they are really trying to build one or they wouldn't use it except defensively if they did.

In spite of the sophisticated PR demonizing Iran more people (average citizens not the political and financial elite) around the world are afraid of the U.S. than Iran.

As many of the posts on here make clear, Americans live in a bubble of PR coming at them from government and the corporate media (just about the same thing, realistically speaking).

Americans are kept in a state of fear and even insanity by corporations that control the media and government officials who have gotten into office with the help of powerful groups like AIPAC.

Making people afraid is a way to control them and when a small percentage of the population have such a large part of the national wealth, and they want to own or direct the mineral (i.e. oil) wealth of a region, that control is important.

Ironically their navy probably hasn't changed much since then.

well, they have subs now, i dont know if they had subs in the 80s. but their gun boats, well i remember them...and i remember we blew a couple of them out of the water.

Really? Iran having seaworthy subs surprises me. Old Soviet relics perhaps?

yes, old diesel electric subs from russia, and china.

I bet those things just light up on SONAR.

well, i think Janes has the their number around 30 iranian subs....now weather they are operational or not is the question. i have no idea what the iranians are thinking they can do, they know that the us navy wont allow a blockade, so maybe its brinksmanship ?

Or maby the U.S. could pull it's head out of it's rear end and realize the world's energy supply can no longer support it's consumption. Then maybe the U.S. auto industry would be pressured to make a car worth something besides it's oversized trucks.

Ruken - Really? Iran having seaworthy subs surprises me. Old Soviet relics perhaps?

keck - yes, old diesel electric subs from russia, and china.

Ruken - I bet those things just light up on SONAR.

I was a Sonar Tech in the 80's during the Cold War. Let me tell you, I would rather prosecute a Nuke than a Diesel/Electric any day. Nukes make noise, not much, but noise none the less. A battery makes none. Experts in our Navy have been calling for Advanced Carbon Fuel/Electric Subs for coastal defense for a long time, but the Defense Contractors and their Pet Politicians won't have any of it. Nukes cost a bundle $$$. Also, just because a military technology is old, doesn't mean it isn't effective, a knife is still a soldiers best friend in any service.

Dem in Texas-2291575

maybe the U.S. auto industry would be pressured to make a car worth something besides it's oversized trucks

not happening, auto companies are only making big big big trucks because that's what they think all Americans want. Too bad all auto executives either have their heads up their asses or are at least 60 yrs old and don't realize global trends.

They are making bigger trucks, to haul the bigger trailers; there is no other power source in the world than can equal the big bore diesel engine, look at the highways bringing goods across the nation, what other power plant can do that job, answer none. Until we develop a alternative engine capable of hauling 120 thousand pounds up and down hills and mountains, we are stuck with the infernal consumption engine.

Iran is in for a serious rude awakening if they try to block the straight. You hit the nail on the head, Keck--the Iranians got wrecked in the 80s, and they'll get wrecked again if they're foolish enough to try it again.

Remember that diesel subs are better in this circumstance than the massive submarines of the US. It takes about 60' for a US submarine to be submerged. In coastal areas they are pretty much useless. Also advanced diesel submarines are extremely difficult to detect, probably even the late model Nazi submarines would give the US hell to detect.

MikeR8898

Iran is in for a serious rude awakening if they try to block the straight. You hit the nail on the head, Keck--the Iranians got wrecked in the 80s, and they'll get wrecked again if they're foolish enough to try it again.

The world is a different place from the 80s sir. Oh yeah, and don't forget a little country called CHINA.

fire-them-all

Was it last year or the year before that a undetected Chinse DIESEL sub submergen inside a US battle group to everybodies surprise?

So much for obsolete hardware eh.

Iran doen't really need a navy. The straights of Hormuz are fairly narrow and are subject to a wide sweep of Iranian land. In fact, the navigable waters are 40-50 miles wide between Iran and the tip of Oman. There are land based, extended range artillery pieces that can fire that far. I doubt they'd resort to attacking though. This is all bluff and bluster. They are smart enough to know they'd be crushed in an all out war.

Nice avatar!

well, they have subs now

Speaking as an expert (I was a Sonar Tech in the Navy with 2 deployments in the Gulf) The waters in the Gulf are so shallow that planes can spot them easily.

Go read post#1.49.

By the way you can thank the Chinese and Russian Federation for selling all the advanced technology (including stolen from US) to Iran.

Gee President Obama and environmentalists, maybe the Keystone Pipeline from our friends in the Great White North isn't such a bad idea after all.

Hmm, unreliable supply from people who hate our guts in the Middle East or oil from Canada. Hmm, don't tell me, I know the answer to this one... Thinking...

norm actually the oil that Iran would impede is primarily destined for Europe. In our current global economy if they pay more we pay more, even when we pump it here in the USA. The keystone pipeline is already laid to KS. it is phase IV that is in debate currently. Nothing like politicians and media to only publish HALF the story and a gullible public to bite hook line and sinker.

BTW it took me longer to READ about the pipeline than it did to search for it. Perhaps if more people did a little RESEARCH before trolling or at least looked under the bridge?????? Norm893... thinking>>>> FAIL

Yes Norm I also know know the answer on this already,but You look at that other problem we have and that is, Rusia and China are still our enemies this has not changed over the years.and I am not worry too much that Iran will try to block the straight we blow them right open.

lets see....the 5th fleet is based out of bahrain, the blockade is fantasy.

...but heck, let em try it...should be fun to watch.

What are they going to use ..? Gum stoppers.

According to Ron Paul and Obama , Iran is not a treat and for Obama also is a tinny country , he is going to have talks with Admadenijhad without pre-conditions, so all those warmongering should stop criticizing Obama he got everything under control , However under the umbrella of China and Russia Iran is going to have their nuke, one more country that will point their nuke heads toward us.

If anyone is concerned about this threat from the Iranians, wait until they have nukes. This threat will seem inconsequential by comparison.

Sanctions alone will not prevent the Iranians from pursuing and acquiring nuclear weapons, and it seems only the Israelis know this.

And you have the answer?Oh,wait,I know,we can borrow money from China,to have another war.Maybe we can cut education,road maintenance,and every other govt responsibilty,take the money to use for war.Possibly we should have a war tax to pay for these operations,all these options should be great for a struggling economy.

I was there and you are right!

Iran's past missile tests, which were described as "failures" by the Western Press because they detonated in the upper atmosphere, and "missed their targets," were deemed "successful" by the Iranians. WHY? Because a nuclear tipped missile(s) can be launched from a 'tramp steamer' in the Gulf of Mexico or along the East Coast to a height of 40 miles or more over the U.S. (they don't have to be accurate) creating a massive EMP which would throw us foot dragging morons back into the 10th century. Your A-Hole government knows it and hides with its head in its ass AGAIN, telling us pretty much that (9/11 or something worse) would never happen again. One of our nation's top EMP experts has been quoted as saying that, in effect, an EMP released on a population is like an instant "Time Machine." It would remove "Civil" from civilian in a nano second. Anything electronic (cars and trucks too) would be fried instantly and the Power Grid would suffer a death blow it couldn't recover from for YEARS. We would lose millions upon millions of people over months from murder, disease and starvation as your fellow citizens fight for what YOU have.

I say.....strike the unctuous bastards before something happens here. A death blow. Then point a cocked gun in Pakistan's direction and just tell them to "twitch." We apparently like playing war games without winning since Viet Nam. We need another General Sherman.

Why can't nuclear be fossilized like everything else..

The answer: Give Israel the okay and encouragement to wipe out Iran's nuclear program, so we don't have to.

A blockade of the Straits of Hormuz would be a suicide move by Iran. In short order their defenses would be destroyed. Remember what the US did to Iraq in 100 hours of Air campaign, this would also be Iran's fate. This is brinkmanship by Iran hoping the world will back down. Like Iraq it is only a matter of time until they annoy the world enough and then someone will take them out. That is the problem with delusional dictatorships, sooner or later they lose touch with reality and then end comes. They make the fatal mistake in believing the power they wield in their own back yard is strong enough to control the world. It is really a sad state of affairs, but unless they change their tune soon, it will happen, Iran will be crushed and the world will move on.

Lusitania

Until a viable alternative energy source can be developed, nuclear power will be a reliable and viable option for developing nations. Like with all other tools, it is a double edged blade that can be used to build as well as destroy.

I'm a lot more afraid of my own government and it's empire and criminal ruling class (both government and corporate) than I am of Iran

Has Iran invaded two countries in the last 10 years killing, wounding and torturing hundreds of thousands of civilians?

Has Iran caused world wide recession/depression with toxic and fraudulent financial products (Warren Buffet: "Mortgaged Backed Securities are weapons of mass financial destruction")

Has Iran threatened our freedom and civil liberties with the Patriot act and the new Levin/McCain Detention Act which allows the indefinite imprisonment without trial of any U.S. citizen the president designates as a "terrorist"?

And now it looks like the corporate servants and sociopaths that run the U.S. are going to get us into another war and try to crush another country that has done nothing to us.

If the world survives the U.S. empire and it eventually fades away (as all empires have done) we will all be better off for it.

And the quicker the better.

Iraq is repeating in Iran.

UN watch dogs have found WMD and EU nations have to jump all around!

The US is supposed to handle the problems militarily and EU nations will go back to their bars dancing as in Iraq.

Saudis, oil companies and lobbyists will start counting profits.

Why no one is bothered about WMDs in Pakistan? Don't they work?

Iran did not try this in the 80's. What they did was take American Embassy personnel Hostage for a year and then President Jimmy Carter, Democrat, failed to deal with these pecker woods.

They now posses Mini subs with Stealth Technology and they are very capable of destroying a few tankers to block the straight and contaminate the seas. Iran is nothing more than a child throwing a tantrum because they want so bad to be a Super Power in that region they will do anything to achieve it. Someone needs to spank the crap out of them and put them in a corner till they start to behave.

I see a lot of post collapsed for saying we should deal with them. I am a Soldier and as such I pray for peace daily because there is nothing more insane or grotesque as combat. I hate combat and everything that goes with it. What those that collapse those post fail to understand is the actual impact of a nuclear Iran and the threat that presents to everyone.

Iran will not think twice about using a Nuke to contaminate the other oil fields in the region or destroy countries that will not give in to their interpretation of how things should be for both laws and religion. No one cares if they have Nuclear Power Plants it's the Nuclear Weapons they are developing that are the problem because of the devastating effect a detonation would have in the region. The sanctions they complain about so loudly trying to make everyone believe they are being picked on would have been gone decades ago if they had just cooperated with inspectors and stopped taking hostages from other countries on trumped up charges. They take a westerner into custody, flood their television with false statements claiming the prisoner works with the CIA or some other foreign security agency then ransom the prisoners to their countries of origin at a million each for the money.

Even as much as I detest war, if they attempt to stop any ship or take another American hostage for any reason we should turn that piss ant country into a litter box. Iran is counting on the American people to keep America from beating them into submission and dedicating forces to deal with their stupidity and as long as Obama is in office that will work, he is too much like Carter and will give into their tantrums and doesn't have the back bone to do what is needed.

@Whereswaldo:

I say.....strike the unctuous bastards before something happens here. A death blow. Then point a cocked gun in Pakistan's direction and just tell them to "twitch." We apparently like playing war games without winning since Viet Nam. We need another General Sherman.

Sherman, Patton, Pershing....etc are all rolling over in their respective graves in regards to the present-day methodology of warfare. Hell, they'd never let Sherman even become a General these days. Not PC enough. But I like your ideas....

If Iran actually tried this they would need glass bottom boats to see their Navy because the US would sink any Iranian ship that tried to interfere with commercial shipping. The US would also level every Iranian missile installation along the coast to keep them from trying to launch anti-ship missiles. Any action like this would be a monumental mistake for Iran and would likely result in the complete collapse of their economy as well as the collapse of their government. With oil funds cut off they would immediately see major problems feeding their people. This would cause the people to rise up against the mullahs and throw them out on their asses. There is already a lot of tension between many of the military leader, the civilian government, and the mullahs. A major crisis like this would definitely cause the whole thing to erupt. The military would not even try to stop the people because their families would be rebelling with everyone else and many of the military leaders would turn on the mullahs as well.

Actually, the smart move by the US would be to stand aside - call for a full embargo on Iranian oil - tighten enforcement of sanctions - bluster at the UN.

Europe should be 'encouraged' to become engaged in North Africa and Iraq again. Saudi Arabia should be 'encouraged' to become more active in Iraq instead of playing it politically safe. Since this threatens the Chinese and Indians the most, let them show what their military capabilities are. China is building aircraft carriers - India has an air force, missiles, and nukes.

Iran is not threatening the US. Let the affected nations deal with their own problems.

For some years many people here in North America have urged a boycott on Middle East oil sources. Well isn't it interesting that it is being done for us.

It is past the time for us to start using our own oil resources ... and to get the h*l* out of the Islamic Dodge ... namely away... totally away... from the primitives of the Middle East insofar as the oil question goes.

Of course bomb their nuclear ambitions... they may have sent their (few) brighter citizens west to get educations in how to make a nuclear bomb but they are still lashed physically, mentally, "morally" (if we can call it that) to primitive beliefs and their terrorist attitudes.

As for blocking our "precious" oil shipments.... Let them... and then BOYCOTT ANY MORE OIL SHIPMENTS FROM THEM. We North Americans (Canada and us) own oil reserves that will last more millennia than human beings are likely to exist... based on archaeological and geological studies.

No other humans have been discovered from the infinitely repeated Ice Ages of Planet Earth and our humanity merely developed within the real global warming cycle that is integral to the countless Ice Ages before us, and which presages the upcoming one ... and that has nothing whatsoever to do with "fossil fuels."

Most of all get rid of OPEC... 9 Middle Eastern countries (and 2 South American and 1 Central American country) who think they now run the world. It is them we have allowed to set the astronomical prices we have been paying them resulting in the absurdity of today's gasoline prices. They have been robbing us fools for decades.

And quit supporting the self-styled Palestinians who were not in the Middle East "first." That can be proved unequivocally by any who bother to read accurate world history. There has been a continuous Hebrew/Jewish/Israeli occupation of the Middle East thousands of years before Mohammed was a gleam in his daddy's eye, and down to the present day.

The Palestinians who consistently have violated and continue to violate the Oslo Accords of 1993 which gave them autonomy in exchange for their peaceful settlement in the Gaza Strip, are as primitive as their piratical nomad tribal heritage. They illustrate precisely what Syria and the other Middle East pathetic excuses for contemporary civilization are proving...

And of which Mr. Obama's either total naivete, or ignorance, or, perish the thought, fellow traveler mentality is being proved again and again... his musical generals, i.e., his emotional and ignorant repetitive switching of them (which recently has been suppressed in the media after Petraeus's leaving), his personal war against Libya without Congressional ratification...

Mr. Obama's war on Libya was, in my book, an obscene personal power-mongering. That interference cost American soldiers' lives. And, it seems, the first war by Americans in our history not ratified by Congress... i.e. US citizens that we instigated which was not a defensive action.

Ha! And the result? The rebels are any different than Qaddafi? In your dreams... Look at Egypt's "rebels. Look at Syria's "rebels." And yes... Look, take a good look at Iran. So now Iran is virtually declaring war on us? How very interesting... just after we withdrew our troops?

How blind are those who refuse to see...

Yes, yes, yes, it is so simple. You just corner a rat and then blow it up, no problem. I also like the "they would not do that, they are not suicidal". Really. All through history we have proof of what was simple, being not so simple, as well as of nations doing suicidal actions that cost the world plenty. The Straights of Hormuz shipping lanes are two miles wide, and of course it would be impossible to sink a couple of tankers there, and thereby shutting down the Straights. It would also be impossible to strike the massive petro installations of Qatif-Abu Sa'fah and Ras Tanura and with it shutting down the Saudi's. The reality is that it would only take a couple of minutes to do this in a coordinated attack. Damage done, and good night.
I learned a long time ago that when you corner an animal it fights back. Okay, I now return this forum back to the experts.

Semper Fi

When I was in New York last Sept. I was walking about 20 yds. behind somekind of middle easterners, two couples, four of them and man did they stink. I couldn't believe it, at least 20 yards behind them and it smelled like all of them just went to the bathroom in their pants. I didn't know if they were farting on purpose, just to offend me, or if they actually stink like that. Well we both walked into the same building and well they did stink, so they werent farting on purpose. I don't know with those people, I don't trust them, they blow themselves up. Well my point is how would they be able to stand themselves in a sub. they stink real bad. I don't think they know anything about bathing and deoderant. I rather get some waterboarding than be on a sub with them. I can't imagine the stink in the sub. with about 2 dozen of them skunks all together in that little confined area. I can't imagine being on the same elevator with them, I'd vomit. Maybe they pay them real good.

You can sink all the tankers you want in the straits, we'd turn anything blocking passage into shreds of sheet metal within hours.

While Iran could sure piss off alot of people with actions involving the Straights, they could not shut down oil shipping. Saudi Arabia has made a point to prepare for something similar. They now have 8 pipelines that run from their fields to shipping ports on their west coast along the Red Sea. Iraq also has pipelines that run to both Saudi Arabia and to Turkey. So while oil prices will shoot up, it won't be an end-all scenario. And things will settle back down once Iran gets it's d-ck slammed into the dirt a few times.

http://www.deepgreencrystals.com/images/GlobalOilChokePoints.pdf

@pedagoguish

You got money to fund another war? Didn't we have these great numbers about Iraq war and the current Afghanistan war?

I don't think it would be US doing the bombing, Mirror! If they block the straits, they will piss off all their neighbors!

Yeah, let's go to war with Iran, afterall it only took us 10 years to get out of Iraq. Look how easily we defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan, right? They just trembled at our military power. If anyone thinks we "won" the war in Iraq then you are dilusional. And if you think Iran would be an easy victory think again. Our military proved it's great at stirring up a hornets nest, committing war crimes and then high tailing it out of their when they've pissed the locals off so much they are no longer willing to allow U.S. soldiers to rape and kill innocent people on their soil. Good luck with your war.

The Straits are International water ways and Irans' comment is telling the rest of the world they are ready to start war on the world. The Theocracy occupying Persia is the terror capital of the planet. this is a way to cement the terrorists groups world wide to follow the coming Caliphate for which the Iran Supreme Leader is reaching. It is an attempt to solidify an Islamic planet.

I find your comments offensive, my son was a US MARINE and never did the things you just accused our military of! So do all of us a favor and move to Iran you peice of DOG SH@#%!!!!!!!!!!

pedagoguish-1262191

Oh please, please, PLEASE try it, Iran.

Oh please, please, PLEASE - you go fund the war if that's what you want!! And don't forget to go to the recruitment office so then it's your life on the line and nobody else's.

Maybe, just maybe, if it comes to conflict, we will have the good sense to make quick work of the Iranian navy and the assets they use to seal the strait. That will cost us little more than the cost of the munitions expended, if we are smart enough not to put "boots on the ground" in Iran. Under no circumstances should we initiate a conflict or fail to meet force with overwhelming force.

Vega1972

It's so interesting to see clueless people like you underestimating a country's desire to defend itself from attack. People like you thought Vietnam and Persian Gulf war 2 would be over in several months.

Why don't you "shock and awe" a history book so then you can learn the painful lessons our leaders keep forgeting: that wars aren't quick and that nobody actually wins a war (except those for financial gain).

I don't see that it would be necessary to actually attack Iran on the ground. It should be sufficient to remove any capability they have to block the strait.

History book??? It goes a little deeper than that!! Sandscript!! This country has sat back and used and old Persian ploy!! As a warrior, u can only have expected this to happen. They have watched us economically, politically, and personally grind ourselves down in two theatres of operation. You ever watch a Lion in a group of hyenas? They just keep taking little bites until one of them gets a good grip on him, and then the rest tear him apart!

Ray: "two theatres of operation"? I count five: Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria (where European newspapers repeatedly report US Special Forces troops have been seen and photographed on the ground), and Somalia (where we acknowledge using drones to attack Islamicist forces). And that number is six if you count operations in Pakistan as separate and distinct from those in Afghanistan.

dslsca

Lets talked about the undeclared wars. Remember the senate has to approve a war.

So every war or conflict that the US has been in after WW2 was illegal. Panama, Granada, vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea etc.

Granada was the real joke. The mighty US forces against Granada who had a few Cubans working on a airport.was a threat to the mighty US. duh?

Guess who benefited of all those little excursions?

And this is not counting the multitude of CIA actions across the world getting rid of leaders who would not bow to the US. Iran is a prime example, 1953 the CIA orgenized a coup to get rid of Mossadeqh and put the Shah in power who was an equal with the help of the Shavak in terror like Saddam Houssain

Cynical: I'm on your side, but just to be clear it's the whole Congress (not just the Senate) that must declare war.

to continue.

The groundwork for all the problems that you (we) now have with Iran was laid by the CIA in 1953.

So the chickens have now come home too roost for the misdeeds done many years ago.

Cynical: agreed. 95% of all the trouble we've had in the middle east since WWII can be considered blowback if not outright a direct result of our own stupid actions.

Wow, they really slipped on by all of you.

Written Proof: US LAWS (with US Congressional Appropriations), it is NOT the US President's Job to create US Laws, that is the job of US Congress, it is also the Job of US Congress to find the money to fund the US Laws US Congress Creates. IT IS NOT THE US PRESIDENT'S JOB TO DECIDE WHICH US LAWS TO ENFORCE:

US LAW, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" with US Congressional Appropriations, as demanded by President Clinton during his State of the Union Address to a joint Session of US Congress, 1998. Justification WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 2 "Findings" of US Law H.R.4655 (scroll down to Section 2 "Findings"):

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts

It was believed by President Clinton that Overthrowing President Hussein would "Liberate the Iraqis People". This is when we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Teams) were sent into Iraq to buy hundreds of thousands of Shiites as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow President Hussein. After this failed, as they were turning each other in for rewards, and being apprehended, tried and executed as Traitors, with President Clinton stating, "Dictator Massacring His Own People".

After all the lesser means of US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" (money still being appropriated by US Congress, 1998 to 2011, the US Law does NOT go away until the US Law is Accomplished). US Congress uses the Final Option, the US Military, by DECLARING WAR WITH IRAQ, with US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations. The only valid excuse for a US President to NOT enforce a US Law, is if there is no money (US Congressional Appropriations).

US Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution:

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/wariniraq/a/jt_resolution.htm

dslsca - Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan

add: Jordan, Yemen, Sudan, Southern Turkey (including Northern Iraq), and a couple of President Obama's Secret Wars.

P.S. It is NOT US Special Forces troops unless you are talking about, US Army Special Forces aka "Green Berets". It is US Special Operations Forces or the Politically correct US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (some one got upset about "Special" as far as "Special Olympics", etc.).

Special Forces = US Army Special Forces.

USAF Special Warfare = USAF Special Operation Wings (SOWs), STTs (Special Tactics Teams), MET.

USMC = USMC MARSOC.

USN = USN SEALs (acroynm SEa Air Land), not seals nor Seals the animals that get ripped to pieces by killer whales.

Dem in Texas-2291575 - afterall it only took us 10 years to get out of Iraq.

Don't say "us" you were never there (Iraq).

Dem in Texas-2291575 - Our military proved it's great at stirring up a hornets nest

Proof you NEVER Served in the US Military or you would KNOW that it is the US Politicians that you hired that sent the US Military to achieve their Goals.

Cynical: I agree about the DECLARING of war... but they keep FUNDING the efforts so that is their tacit approval... That whole plausible deniability thing just in another guise. "we didn't declare war. We just funded it."

For the uninformed because of GW's EGO and the dipsticks in office back in 2002, it no longer requires the Senate and House to authorise or declare war the half breed in office can now declare war without having to wait for the senate and the house.

@SDM1970,
Clearly reading is challenging for you. The U.S. is no longer in Iraq because the Iraqi people will no longer give U.S. soldiers immunity for crimes they commit while there. I would like to ask you now, what did your marine son do after he heard about Hadditha, Abu Graib or the torture the U.S. government was sponsoring abroad? Did he cry for the innocent people and their families killed at Hadditha? Or did he hi-five his marine buddies on a job well done?

@David,
Good point, I don't want to be included in the morons that started that stupid mess of a war. But answer me this, was it part of the politicians wishes for thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis to be killed by U.S. troops? Was Abu Graib part of the big plan by the politicians? I never said I did serve in the military, but any fool can see that Abu Graib and all the other attrocities the U.S. military commited in Iraq was not the fault of any politician, only the responsibility of the men and women that commited them. Furthermore, it is the fault of the U.S. military as a whole that many of those that commited these attrocities have never and will never be brought to justice.

This is why the U.S. will not succeed in a war with Iran. The U.S. will do the same thing they did in Iraq, they will erode any welcome they can possibly garner and soon turn all the hatred the people of that country had towards their government towards the U.S. military.

To sdm1970, you tell him! I am so sick of people bashing our military and the great, not perfect, better than iran, United States of America. I dare all these trash traitors to walk into any VFW post and spout off. They'd get their arses kicked, first by some 80 year old heros, then the newest vets can dump them out back in the dumpster where they belong! Or go to iran and proclaim how much you think America has treated them unfairly if living here leaves such a bad taste in your mouth!

And to the comments of not winning the war or not beating the taliban, iraqis, al Q, they sure did tremble in their boots. Iraqis ran from the battlefield, not once but twice. We beat them all in less than a month. Won the war, yes our military did and even at the cost of being politically correct while doing so.

You must be talking about the other 9 years and 11 months and counting that we did our best to teach them what they can only learn by sacrificing for themselve's, freedom! It's not our military that has lost anything, it's the backward people that will not do for themselves who will make our militaries sacrifics seem all for nothing. And foolish people who actually think our military was beat, no it was our charitible will of tring to better a country that was beaten. They won the right to stay in the stoneage that their so comfortable with.

The only mistake made is thinking muslims can be a positive force in this world and live in peace with each other, in the same country no less, if we just give them a chance. That i'm sorry to say everyday seems more and more impossible. The world would be a better place if islam was not a part of it! Next time I hope we know once the threat is eliminated or the people are free or the lesson of attacking the US is taught, we leave!

Dem in Texas 2291575

Apparently the only thing you can do is try to demean a soldier that has fought for the very freedom you use to try and demean him with. Personally your pathetic. My own opinion of course. As a Vet and seeing as though Congress as a whole voted to send the troops to Afghanistan and Iraq you really do not have much to stand on other than what Abu Graib?

Wow since when did war become nice? The old adage war is hell is as correct as it gets. The definition of war? That is to beat your enemy so badly they will never attempt to pick up arms against you again understand? Remeber Iran is the one being threatening here.

But what is your solution to any world problems? Short of complete disarment and the kum by ya attitude, as well as the evil America soldiers attitude. What plan do you offer up besides critizing those who served?

Ask those civilians that had there heads cut off as well as military personnel which was worse Abu Griab hazing or headless? Sorry but apparently you are clueless in the Abu Griab case as well.

The U.S. military's highest court has upheld the convictions of two soldiers for abusing Abu Ghraib prison detainees in Iraq.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/02/05/militarys-highest-court-upholds-abu-ghraib-convictions/#ixzz1hngRQEQY

I see no remark on the fact that it was Clinton.

If the pansies in office opted to go to war with Iran and not have it cost too much then it would be over in a day or 2. Iran would be nothing but a burn spot of the face of the earth, a beacon of light for the world to act humanely towards eachother say for the next 30 years until we could put the flame out.

The most advanced military power in the world opting to fight a ground war is what costs live and too much money, but if you for an instant beleive that the USA could not put Iran down then you need to go back to school.

Dem in Texas and what_the_81

If it comes to it a war will be fought with Iran. What you fail to see is the significance of the threat. Trying to shut down 1/3 of the world's oil supply will jeopardize not only the US and Europe, but China and the rest of Asia as well. Our war with Japan was about resources most predominantly oil, so don't be surprised if more than the US is in on the destruction. The world economies are interlinked today as never before, if our economy hiccups the rest of the world shakes. It is the same with Europe and Asia or haven't you been paying attention since 2008.

Dem in Texas

Your comments are still incredibly offensive. Your question "did he cry for the innocent people and their families killed at Hadditha" is totally moronic. Not crying for the families killed at Hadditha doesn't make a soldier (or anyone for that matter) a rapist. Your logic is ridiculous.

Of course US soldiers have committed atrocities. To me, it's a numbers game. There are hundreds of thousands of troops - you're going to get a few criminals amongst them just like you would in any population. But to label the US army as killers, torturors and rapists b/c of the actions of a few is no different than calling all Muslims terrorists.

You seem to be a very fanatic person. That's fine - we live in a country where political dialogue is encouraged. But please refrain from insulting and demeaning the work of the people who are putting their lives on the line for your safety. You're lucky to be living in a country where you can safely publicly vent your fanatiscm.

How can people forget so easily 2003 Iraqi war and now Afghan war?

Iran is not the terror capital of the world! Only Israel is involved here. As Israel is too smart I won't bother much about it.

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are the terror capitals of the world. At least eighty percent of Islamic radicalism and terrorism are due to Sunni radicals and terrorists.

You got money to fund another war?

All the money we need would come from the rich as hell countries in the gulf that would be affected by any action by Iran.

All you great military planners forgot that Iran has nuclear material it can contaminate the Saudi Arabian Oil fields, thanks to Russia.

Point is moot. Neither China nor Russia would allow Iran to use the material in such a way. Because of how the winds blow, any radiation would make it's way over Western China eventually. Iran wouldn't risk it. They may be arrogant but they are not retarded.

Chris: all the money to pay for the war would come from the rich as hell countries in the Gulf? That sounds an awful lot to me like "Iraqi oil will pay for the Iraq war." Somehow it didn't turn out that way.

Kuwaiti oil and post invasion oil deals paid for most of the 1991 war costs. That's what i'm referring to. We also wouldn't be invading Iran, simply bombing the f-ck out of anything attacking shipping. That's a hell of alot cheaper than putting boots on the ground and easily paid for.

...like obamas campaign promises.

berden - My god an Obama supporter laughing about presidential statements

What's wrong with that I laugh at all of them. Repugnants, Demoncraps, In Depends (Adult Diapers), Scrotums (Tea Baggers), etc..

What is the use in crying about what they did or are doing, unless you are in the US Military and end up during your over 20, 30 year US Military Career having to fix the mess they created.

One thing for sure: you can't predict how the religious extremists, especially Islamic ones, and the political ones behave and act!

George Bush, Jr could not locate many nations in the map! Still, he blasted his way to wars!

propaganda from who ?

you are saying that iran telling the world they are going to blockade the strait of hormuse...is done by our govt ?

Our government beating the war machine. Don't you see the similarities between the iran build up and the WMD nightmare in iraq?

Iran regardless of what you read is NOT a threat to this country.

uh. okay.

Iran, a country that has ties to terrorists, developing nuclear technology, not a threat?

How do you come upon that conclusion?

Didn't Iran say they wouldn't stop until Israel is wiped off the map? (Or something to that effect)

Het Brendan. What part of Iran screwing with international trade didn't you get?

There still is no solid evidence they are devoping nuclear technology for weapon purposes. Not a single thread of evidence. If you know something i don't kindly link me to evidence and ill gladly refute my positions.

Ties to terrorists how? What you do not understand is the government of iran and the people of iran are two different things entirely. Why do we demonize a country, risk attacking them and slaughtering thousands if not millions to force our will on the country? ( remeber iraq? we killed over 1 million citizens, who is the real terrorist again?)

Again, what does ISRAEL have to do with the SECURITY OF THE USA?

nothing.

preemptive war only sacrifices our freedom and security.

oh brendan you cant be that naive.

...you are joking with us, right ?

What does Isreal have to do with the topic at hand?

nothing

How are you so naive to just eat swallow and digest everything you are told? Where is the evidence? Where was the evidence prior to iraq? If you quote the IAEA nuclear report or w/e, its all speculation based.

You think going around the world starting wars based on speculation is actually making us safer?

Are you serious?

@Draconis:

Basically everyone knows that if Iran gets a nuke, Israel would be target #1.

@ Ruken

Yeah, Iran has made that clear...repeatedly. I was just quoting 'Brendan' our friendly 'it's all Isreal's fault' poster....

The point I was making was that Iran's threat to blockade the Strait is not directly connected to Isreal, but rather to sanctions.....

brenden...you can always leave

@ Draconis

Im aware of that, but we wouldn't be talking about iran in the first place if we didn't have a crazy blind faith in israel. Hey man, even netanyahu has stated we should stay out of israel's affairs and let them have the ability to strike if they so choose, and not clear it with washington first.

Im all for letting israel fight thier own wars, but the establishment politicians in washington seem to think its a better idea if we do it for them.

Its not really all israel's fault, i fault our politicians and super PAC's more so than israel, considering they have asked for us to stay out of thier business

@ Liberallies

IF you think we should be fighting preemptive wars is unamerican man you need a crash course in history.

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none. - thomas jefferson

brenden...you need to do some homework before you open your leftard piehole. You have no clue what your talking about

Brenden...as long as your quoting jeeferson maybe you should look up what he did when pirates were attacking American Ships

@ Liberallies

LOL. of course just tell me im wrong but offer no explanation as to WHY im wrong. typical.

He said he wanted to start a navy to reach the pirates. How is that starting a preemptive war again? And how does this relate to Iran never attacking the united states?

what in the world are you trying to point out?

Brenden...i already explained how you are wrong. Not my fault your too stupid to understand

@ brendan "...we wouldn't be talking about iran in the first place if we didn't have a crazy blind faith in israel...."

I beg to differ....I remember 1979 well...Of course, I'm sure you will say the hostages were taken by the 'peace loving, democratic peoples republic of Iran' because of our ally Isreal, or because we backed the Shah...All of which may be true.

But, the fact remains, Iran is no friend to the US and hasn't been since before you were born (I'm making the assumption since you referred to yourself as part of the 'youngest generation' in an earlier post that you weren't born in 1979, or were too young to follow the news at the time) and their threat to blockade the Strait of Hormuz if further sanctions are imposed is a direct threat to world economy...

...Speaking of sanctions, you do realize that the sanctions are in response to Iran's unwillingness to do more than say 'Trust me, I don't want nuclear weapons' when they wish to enrich urainum to higher levels than is needed for medical research....

Edited to add: And as far as Iran being no threat to the US, they have been since 1979 when they attacked the US...The embassy in Iran was US soil and we *could* have reacted to that attack just as if it had been an attack on Washington or New York...We didn't, Iran saw us blink and they have been pushing ever since.....

@Liberal

you told me i can leave and you told me i have no idea what im talking about. where again did you show me i am wrong? I await your carefully thought out response..

@Draconis. your right, it was because in 1953 we staged a coup and installed the western friendly dictator the shah who was brutal to his people. Iran hasn't been a friend to the us since 1979, which they took our hostages in response to us installing a dictator in the country. And your correct again, myself being born in 1986 it was all before i was born.

my point here is though, why are we staging coups or installing dicators in other countries? this is exactly what im talking about that ALWAYS comes back to bite us in the behind. when looking at the big picture, our government picking winners and losers in terms of forign policy is wrong. ( also we have a terrible track record picking those winners)

Considering iran is surrounded by over 200 US military bases and a whole host of countries that have nukes, why in the world wouldnt they want one? Look what we did to iraq - they had no nukes and we bulldozed them. Look at north korea, they HAVE nukes and we want to send them food aide and talk.

crazy isnt it?

keck

propaganda from who ?

you are saying that iran telling the world they are going to blockade the strait of hormuse...is done by our govt ?

I hope you know that there are 2 sides to every story. We only hear about Iran's agressions or threats against us, but we NEVER hear about ours towards them.

I've lived in other countries and BS like this happens all over the place. Go to any country and visit a newsstand. It is common for the media to pick a country that isn't viewed favorably and spin the events to make it look like that a country is being aggresive towards them. It's all about fear and that's how people are controlled around the world, not just the US.

@Brendan-4

Why exactly are you debating someone so self righteously delusional to call themselves "LiberalLies" and who uses words like "leftard" and "piehole" and spells Jefferson jeeferson? Honestly, it's as pointless as Iran threatening a blockade in Hormuz.

I do disagree that retaliation should Iran block the flow of oil would be "preemptive".

I did a number of VSSB actions against their ships during Gulf I and consequently became very interested in the dynamics of the region. Iran are of all the situations in the Gulf region the most straightforward provided a NATO or US action could stay on mission. There would be no concept of occupation or post-war nation building in this instance. The simple and direct goal would correlate more closely with Gulf I and by that I mean a specific goal with an after action plan. An Iran scenario would or should be to eliminate their nuclear capabilities, disable and dismantle their military including their antiquated navy, destroy and eradicate their infrastructure, and leave. Boots on the ground, only in the littorals (unless we really, really wanted that lost drone back).

We've consistently gotten the target wrong in that region. Iraq, yes nasty dictator but stabilizing secular force. Waste of lives, time and money with no real positive outcome. That region and those peoples are simply not accustomed to nor indeed ready for western style democracy which is built on a strong secular base, not religious, contrary to what evangelicals and Tea Baggers think.

Whereas Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia are and have been clear and present dangers. More money and resources have come from those three states to fund, train and prop up organizations like al-Qeada than anywhere else in the region.

But the reality is our military is tired, we're out of money, America is divided, and thanks to the previous administration, our moral authority to even engage Iran has been diminished and the new administration has sent so many mixed signals as to have not improved things that much.

Yet the chicken hawks on the right - the one's who refused to pay for the previous war by higher taxes like any population with true patriotic common sense - still want to have their cake and eat it too.

LMFAO!! Brendan...I would give a lot to be a fly on the wall in your basement room if Iran blocks the Strait, and shuts off the oil flow from the Gulf. You enjoy TV, video games, electric lights, automobiles or scooters, heat, A/C, your computer, and I-pad right?? Do you think these devices run on love?? They run because of OIL!! LOL!! We're the big bad war mongers huh?? Your public education is showing in your complete lack of understanding of the history of the U.S. and the propaganda you were indoctrinated with in public schooling. Phew!!

Remember, if you start a war with iran you damn well better find people to fight it for you, because my generation ( the youngest) will not fight it for you.

Oh so you're arrogantly speaking for everybody now are you? Well guess what? They don't need your piddly little ass. If Iran blocks the Gulf, they will be waxed. Guaranteed.

It's about time they had their towels cleaned. They've been asking for it. Let's see 'em try it.

lib tarded

It's about time they had their towels cleaned. They've been asking for it. Let's see 'em try it.

By promoting a war, you are speaking on everyone's behalf. You are forcing our soldiers who just came back home from Iraq to go fight yet another pointless political war. You are also forcing me and other taxpayers to finance this war, which given Iran's weaponry - may cost more than Persian Gulf war 2.

Furthermore, based on your comments I doubt you are fully informed of the situation. There are 2 sides to every story and we only hear about Iran's aggressions & threats against the US, but rarely the US' towards Iran. Educate yourself before you make more uneducated comments.

Furthermore, did we need that towel reference? Only shows your ignorance which does NOTHING for your credibility.

For all those wanting war........when you go this time, how about PAYING CASH upfront first to fund it. No more borrowing from the generations that haven't been born yet. YOU WANT WAR, YOU PAY UPFRONT IN CASH FIRST. When the USA has collected whatever amount that is determined to cover the entire war, and all the Die hard war mongers have sent in THEIR share of whatever that cost is IN ADVANCE, then I will back you all 100 percent. So, you want it, YOU get out your check books, and VIsa cards and start sending the funds to Washington with a note stating only for war in Iran. How you think that will work out...... Come on now, get that cash out. As said before, money talks B.S walks..... I dont hear much except crickets???????

damn, i didn't even have to post here again what_the_81 said it all for me

glad someone else sees things the way they really are

By promoting a war, you are speaking on everyone's behalf.

Hey, that's your conclusion, not mine. Go for it if you want.

But if they make any move, they're gonna get waxed. It's as simple as that.

You are forcing our soldiers who just came back home from Iraq to go fight yet another pointless political war. You are also forcing me and other taxpayers to finance this war, which given Iran's weaponry - may cost more than Persian Gulf war 2.

Oh well. I'm a taxpayer too. lol...

We won't need any boots on the ground. We'll just sink their navy and give their ground forces a good thrashing from the air. Then we'll see if they can block it or not.

Ka-boom, mother_fukkers! Ka-boom!

It wouldn't take much to take them out. Or we can have Israel do it. They'll do it if they have to and they'll get away with it, too.

Furthermore, based on your comments I doubt you are fully informed of the situation. There are 2 sides to every story and we only hear about Iran's aggressions & threats against the US, but rarely the US' towards Iran. Educate yourself before you make more uneducated comments.

Well you're either on our side or you're on they're side. In which case we'll round you up and lock you up with all the other traitors and spies. Thanks to Obama we can now lock up traitors without trial. Something Bush couldn't even get away with.

Furthermore, did we need that towel reference? Only shows your ignorance which does NOTHING for your credibility.

Why? Do you have dirty towels, too?

lol...

brendan-4

Remember, if you start a war with iran you damn well better find people to fight it for you, because my generation ( the youngest) will not fight it for you.

Lets see... The generations ahead of you have fought so you have the rights you enjoy today so perhaps your generation is just a tad selfish to not do it for the ones behind you? As to your generation not fighting for me... I've served and proud of it even though I never was in combat. Just a hint here though... while there is not an ACTIVE draft there is this little thing called Selective Service that has been around since just after the draft ended. If there aren't enough volunteers in a time of need they will call up bodies and "your" generation is prime choice #1. Find a Vietnam veteran and ask them their thoughts on the draft. When you decide to leave the USA to avoid that draft don't let the door hit you in the a$$ and don't expect to get your college paid for or those other benefits.

It's whiners like you that reflect poorly on your generation. Run along and play with your Chinese made mp3 player that is fueled by Iranian oil.

I really do like fukking with some of the drama queens around here. I really do.

Their self-centered hyperbole is truly entertaining.

lol...

The OP realizes Iran is making the threats here that will effect many countrues. And says its US war propaganda. The US wouldnt even be the first to start fighting with them if they @!$%# it down, or tried. I love how another country talks about doing things tht will lead to war and people call it American propaganda

Now that we're done with Iraq, it's time to move onto the enemy we should've attacked 9 years ago -- Iran. Nevermind the deficits, this is the real deal -- a real enemy. Sign up your sons & daughters, and this time let's actually pay for it with our taxes instead of pushing off the cost to our grandchildren.

brenden

Your the one choosing to ignore evidence. The UN watchdog agency for nuclear proliferation just released a report recently indicating the Iranian activities are in line with a weapons program. Is that enough to go to war over? No it is not, but a blockade of the straits would be. Or how about an air burst over the strait that would shut down shipping for a few decades and poison a large chunk of the surrounding area, would that be enough? How about a 400 to 500 percent increase in energy rates and food bills in the US, would that be enough? Especially when the environmental movement in this country is dead set on blocking anything and everything that has to do with energy production. Pull your heads out of the sand please and start paying attention to the rest of the world. As for Detroit making anything other than trucks, well when people show that they want something other than trucks, they will build it. When they can produce something fuel efficient, comfortable and safe in a collision and not cost forty or fifty thousand dollars, then people might want to buy it.

lib tarded

I really do like fukking with some of the drama queens around here.

Oh so your clueless statements are for amusement?

That's cool, we can just ignore you then

Our government beating the war machine. Don't you see the similarities between the iran build up and the WMD nightmare in iraq?

Our government is "beating the war machine"? It was the Iranians who pledged to block the strait! Although, I guess, in your little world, the Iranians are probably in on the "conspiracy."

brendan-4

I agree with you on the WMD's....we were attacked from one country...gave it a kiss and promise and instead we go into a country that was in no way a threat to us.

I think that the next time we see a need for boot's on the ground or our pilots in the air and our Navy is require to go in harm's way.......then the President must go before Congress and request a Declaration of War!

Here is where I see it differently brendan-4. For better or worse, we need oil to keep our nation going. Iran closing the Straights is a direct threat to the US. Iran building nuclear weapons is allowing them to be in the position of again stopping the flow of oil and a direct threat to the region and Europe.

You mentioned WWII. Prior to Dec. 7th 1941, our country was a people of isolationists reflected in the polls and press. We declared war on the Japanese peoples (and after Germany declared war on us) we declared war on the German peoples as well. Unconditional surrender was our stated goal.

Our over all objective was to render both nations military and ability to maintain a war destroyed along with infrastructure that keeps it going, and if civilians died in cities where the factories were.....that was WWII and that is what a Declared War means.

As a nation we should make that decission. AND if we have to Declare a War on any nation, then we make sure they know the price they will pay for putting our nation and our military in harms way.......Unconditional Surrender and all it entails. That includes rationing and putting all of our resources to winning the war.

Yup, Iran could be a big problem.

You bet!

The same gang of Saudis, oil companies and lobbyists did these propaganda ahead of 1991 and 2003 Iraqi wars!

Anybody inconvenient to these are the targets!

Saudis and Pakis are most valuable allies for war on terror!

Lastly, there are some who can't locate some of the nations on the map just like George Bush, Jr. They have to cow down and hack someone to pieces.

Oh so your clueless statements are for amusement?

No, my clueful statements are for my own amusement. Maybe you shouldn't act like such a drama queen. The world isn't going to do what you want just because you make some hysterical statements on a board somewhere.

That's cool, we can just ignore you then

Well now your brain cells are kicking in. Awesome.

lol...

Well now your brain cells are kicking in

Yeah, and I'm not the one with "tarded" in my screename.

I'll go back to ignoring you now.

Yeah but I don't look like one of the Village People so why don't you run along and give somebody another round of "YMCA" before the AZT medication makes you forget the words.

Iran is just telling the world we have no right to place sanctions on their oil and they are right. Iran has a right to protect their own nations welfare, which is what they would be doing, if they choose to shut down the straits.

Iran has abided by the Nuclear non Proliferation treaty, which they signed. Inspectors have not found any violations. Third countries have accused Iran of many things, but have never offered hard proof of any violations.

The US is using the sanctions to strike out at Iran, for Israel. The US and Israel are only looking for an excuse to strike Iran. Israel, of course will only sit back and watch, as we spend our treasure and our soldiers, should we have the guts to put boots on the ground.

No more wars for Israel. Wasn't the Iraq war, which was planned and sold by the Zionists, named Wolfowitz and Feith, quite enough? You all can be sure the hands of the Zionists are all over the idea to sanction Iran's oil.

RalphH, Iran has no right to decide anything. They are an illegal regime.

We have no right to place sanctions on Iran's oil? A sanction is just a refusal to do business. Since when are we, or other nations who share our views, forced to buy oil from countries who are working against our interests?

RalphH

Iran has abided by the Nuclear non Proliferation treaty, which they signed. Inspectors have not found any violations. Third countries have accused Iran of many things, but have never offered hard proof of any violations.

The whole reason these sanctions are being considered is that they are not in compliance with UN resolutions nor the Nuclear no proliferation treaty that they signed! Yes they have a right to protect their interests, but ask yourself this, if they truly have nothing to hide, and a stunt like this is sure to cost them in assets and lives, why not open their program to the world? Qatar is building reactors for power generation, and they have agreed to open their program to inspections and conditions, why not Iran?

The US and Russia, two of the most powerful and untrusting nations on earth, were able to set aside their differences in order to reduce and control nuclear weapons. If Iran is truly pursuing peaceful nuclear power, why not try to get along with other nations and in the process have some of the sanctions against them removed. Libya turned over their WMDs and opened their programs and the sanctions against them were lifted in fairly short order.

Wrong archangel, Iran is in full compliance and they do not have any nuclear weapons. Their program is open to the world. Thed IAEA has inspectors in Iran, monitoring every development.

The US, with the urging of Israel, is trying to strangle Iran economically, with sanctions and the planned embargo of Iranian oil. They are looking for an excuse to attack Iran. They are pushing them, hoping that Iran will do something to provide an excuse for attacks to begin.

China buys much of Iran's oil. I imagine they will be very unhappy if their supply is interupted.

No more wars for Israel.

Minuteman motto:

Worldwide delivery in 30 minutes or less, or the next ones free. !

@Dirk

Really, bombing is your solution? Did it work in Iraq? Did it work in Tora Bora? You got money to fund another war?

He's talking a totallydifferent species of kaboom here!! Do you have enough money if we "don't" do anything about the Gulf being blocked at the Straits of Harmuz? Have you ever seen that part of the world? Iran has a strong grip on that shipping lane! It's extremely hard to smuggle grass through there to the UAE! So just imagine big ass oil rig's, sneaking out into the Arabian Sea.

@TheMirror

The type of kaboom that I'm talking about there wouldn't be anymore IRAN in 30 mins tops. SLBM from the USS OHIO some place in the Indian Ocean.

Yeah, 9 years ago people felt that war with Iraq would last just as long. Funny how clueless people like you promote the repetition of history.

took about 10 years to close down though....

what_the_81:

Not my fault. We should've gotten out once Saddam was dead. Get in, do the job, get out. "Hearts and minds" my ass.

When you have America's arsenal, a war with Iran shouldn't last long. It just has to be done right. Maybe if we quit pussy-footing around and just eliminated the problems, these idiots would stop beating their chests.

Exactly. The war against Saddam's Iraq was over pretty quickly, it's the "nation building" that took nine years and billions of dollars. If we need to go to war with Iran, hit 'em hard and let them worry about putting the pieces back together.

Eugene Saxe & GAdude

Nation building?

Ok, be my guest. Go to all the returning vets and tell them they weren't in a warzone.

Draconis: We have counter-measures to shoot down anti-ship missiles.

I doubt their guidance systems could even bring it close, however.

I know what the 'general public' (in other words 'Janes' ) knows about our capabilities does not include many weapon systems that are still hidden....but a Mach 3 missle with a travel time of 25-30 seconds to target, wave-hopping....

The Vulcan is good, but....I only fear the belief that Iran would be out there in rowboats throwing camel dung at capital ships when the truth is much more dangerous....After all, money can buy all sorts of dangerous toys and the people who know how to use them...and Iran has money pumping out of the ground 24/7....

In all, I just want to point out Iran is not as backward as some believe even if they aren't as powerful as they think they are....until they have a reliable delivery system for nuclear weapons that they say they don't want....

Hey, the SS-N-22 is not a missle to snub your nose at. As I worked electronic warfare in the Navy I know that missle well and it is very, very scarey. And I was in the Gulf for the first round of Iranian nonsense! Now the question is do they work. I ask this because Iran also had Harpoon ASCM's and they were not kept up, so the seeker didn't work. I'll have to read up on the Iranians having Sunburn's, did not know that.

-Draconis-

A missile attack is probably just what WAR-HUNGRY US needs:

1. Iran will warn the US to stay out of the region - or they will attack, (of course, that warning will always remain classified to the American people).

2. US military commanders will secretly have radar or any monitoring equipment turned off - to prevent detection of impending attack

3. Irani missile/air attack will causing many US casualties.

4. Mission Accomplished: War with Iran is now underway!!

5. US Military-Industrial Complex is now financially secure for another 10 years.

Everyone talks as if the US would be the only country affected by the closing of the Straits.

The Straits are international waters, closing them, would affect a lot of other Nations. I would believe that those other nations would be a little upset at Iran also if they choose to shut down the Straits.

Ruken

Draconis: We have counter-measures to shoot down anti-ship missiles.

I doubt their guidance systems could even bring it close, however.

USS Stark Yep we can shoot their missiles down, or so we thought.

IF, and it's a big if, this were to go down the answer would be stand off response using SSBN, SSN and vert launch combined with B52 and stealth delivery of cruise, tomahawk for land and add harpoon for sea. As noted other places here their diesel subs would be the greatest threat to shipping and I would hope we were smart enough to not put our a$$ets in the gulf like fish in a barrel.

Some simple math... Exocet does about a mile in 5 seconds... so 20 seconds across the straits? That Vulcan takes about 30 seconds to warm up and lock on..... That presumes they are using 30 year old tech and not some new faster missile or some good old fashioned mines that don't even have to touch a ship to shut the straits down for months on end. Think about an unarmored USS Cole loaded with LNG or crude. It only takes ONE.

Good point. In reading this article there was a lot mentioned about the UN, EU, and the OPEC countries as well being upset. We are a major world player for sure, but we do tend to forget that we're not the only ones. Reading a lot of the comments left after articles it seems people constantly want to make it about the US, and about democrats vs republicans. Half the time I don't think people fully read the article and just want to bring up more politics that divide us as a country.

trust_verify

USS Stark is not a good example. Stark was the victim of a surprise attack from a speed boat launched anti ship missile. We have become much more wary since then. Mines would be my bet in addition to submarines. The problem for Iran is that once they commit, it will be their end as a nation because any one of a number of different countries acting alone or in concert would destroy what little military power they have. Troops and tanks cannot blockade a sea route. Missiles, and aircraft can be taken out rather easily, just like their command and control structure. Within two weeks, Iran could be back to relying on camels for travel. I would prefer that they start acting like adults and dealing openly with the rest of the world instead of making juvenile threats.

@trust_verify: "Think about an unarmored USS Cole loaded with LNG or crude. It only takes ONE." -- discussing using a mine against an unarmored tanker carrying Liquid Natural Gas through the Straight of Hormuz.

Iran has threatened to seal off the Straight, and I totally agree with your comment that one mine against the right ship would cause a huge BOOM and force a war with Iran (most likely). So, here is the scary thought -- how about Israel Commandos go drop a mine themselves in the Straight making sure it hits the right tanker. They have the know-how for sure. Iran would deny it was them, the world would blame Iran anyway and blow up their military/nuclear complexes. Israel achieves it's goal.

That Vulcan takes about 30 seconds to warm up and lock on

No, there is no "warm up" when a ship in in combat conditions and the system will lock onto any target almost instantaneously.

Stark was the victim of a surprise attack from a speed boat launched anti ship missile

LOL! NO!!! She was hit by two Excocets fired by an Iraqi Mirage F-1. You can't just take a missle off one plateform and fire it off another (thats one of the things that drives me crazy about TopGun, Mig's firing Exocets!) Please at least try and get you facts straight people when you try and sound knowledgeable.

I'll add that when passing through the Straits you are at General Quarters, which means you are ready for combat. A lesson from the Stark which I doubt has changed with Iran's constant sabre rattling.

I'll add that when passing through the Straits you are at General Quarters, which means you are ready for combat. A lesson from the Stark which I doubt has changed with Iran's constant sabre rattling.

how about Israel Commandos go drop a mine themselves in the Straight

Gotta love conspiracy fanatics, if you don't get what you want in real life make something up like this masterpiece:

A missile attack is probably just what WAR-HUNGRY US needs:

1. Iran will warn the US to stay out of the region - or they will attack, (of course, that warning will always remain classified to the American people).

2. US military commanders will secretly have radar or any monitoring equipment turned off - to prevent detection of impending attack

3. Irani missile/air attack will causing many US casualties.

4. Mission Accomplished: War with Iran is now underway!!

5. US Military-Industrial Complex is now financially secure for another 10 years.

And,

making sure it hits the right tanker

How exactly do you do that?

archangel 3:16

USS Stark is not a good example. Stark was the victim of a surprise attack from a speed boat launched anti ship missile.

Sort of blended the two there? Stark was an air launched missile. Cole was a speed boat.

falconer33

No, there is no "warm up" when a ship in in combat conditions and the system will lock onto any target almost instantaneously.

Ships don't stay in "combat" mode 24/7. They may stay in on heightened alert in certain areas but the Vulcan cannot not be left online 24/7 without burning out a lot of parts.

Thanks for the response to archangel though... I even included the link... I think they blended the Cole and Stark incidents.

Robert-814282

It's not the BOOM that would shut down the strait.... It's the fear that there are mines in the strait once one is found. NO company would send their ship into KNOWN or suspected mine fields. Their insurance would NOT cover them and they would not only lose the ship but have to pay out of pocket and lose the next 20 years of profit from the life of the ship.

As to Israel commandos... sure why not... but why do it? Iran is it's own worst enemy. I believe that Iran is smart enough that if they are going to mine the strait they would place more than one mine and it would be difficult for a third party to do that and make it look like Iran had done the deed. Stealth attack on one ship would be viewed as a terrorist attack at best unless Iran out and out claimed the attack. Attacking multiple ships would be more likely and again hard to fake.

Ships don't stay in "combat" mode 24/7. They may stay in on heightened alert in certain areas but the Vulcan cannot not be left online 24/7 without burning out a lot of parts.

You are correct, but while sailing through the Straits you are at GQ (ready for combat). The USS Stark failed to follow ROE or heed warnings given in their pre-sail briefings. When my ship sailed through the Straits we had 50 cals/25mm chain gunners manned, missles on the rails, jammer & SRBOC armed and no unnecessary crew below the waterline due to mines.

And, if I remember right, The Cole was a boat load of explosives. When we were anchored in Thailand someone sent in a threat to do just that, and let me tell you, the 50's and m-60's came out!

We were behind a tanker that hit a mine. Pretty nerve racking!

They'll just do what every government does: Start starvation at the bottom of the ladder, so the leadership can continue.

check out the movie collapse for some reality therapy my friend.

polka..so your ok with Iran getting nukes?

"If we only ceased interfering in their affairs then we would face no threat from Iran."

You feel threatened by them? I don't.

So you think its OK for Iran to help kill our soldiers and get Nukes? Are you really that stupid?

'Polka' you really should read up on people like Neville Chamberlain who had similar things to say about Nazi Germany....

"if we leave them alone they won't hurt us"

polka..so your ok with Iran getting nukes?

They have the right to obtain them for their own defense from aggressor nations like the US.

You feel threatened by them? I don't.

We are not threatened by them but we are provoking them into a military confrontation.

So you think its OK for Iran to help kill our soldiers and get Nukes?

I don't care if they have nukes and they could not help kill our soldiers if they were not there. US out of middle east!

Polka14

Finally, another person who thinks rationally. There is still hope for the US to end its ways of bullying the rest of the world. Until then, everyone else has to take their heads out of the sand.

-Draconis-

'Polka' you really should read up on people like Neville Chamberlain who had similar things to say about Nazi Germany....

There are no comparisons between Iran & Nazi Germany. The main difference is that nobody was picking on Germany for a war, unlike in Iran's case (US & Israel). Also, nobody is trying to appease Iran in any way, shape or form. Iran is simply reacting to sanctions against them.

Another war is inevitable until we keep out of foreign affairs and stop doing Israel's dirty work. Let them defend themselves, we have enough to worry about than get tangled in middle-eastern issues

Polka14:

They're spouting random threats, but WE'RE provoking them. Riiiiight.

"I don't care if they have nukes"--You should. You should care that ANY country has them.

They're spouting random threats, but WE'RE provoking them. Riiiiight.

Those are in response to constant promises from the US to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.

"I don't care if they have nukes"--You should. You should care that ANY country has them.

No. It isn't my concern if Iran has nuclear weapons in addition to the other known nuclear nations. Nuclear weapons are a good deterrent to war.

Polka14: Nuclear weapons are a good deterrent to war.

Not when lunatics have them.

Not when lunatics have them.

Like the warmongering US? Or Israel? Iran has not invaded another nation in centuries. Only a lunatic would think that Iran could or will attack the US if unprovoked.

Polka14: The government of Iran has stated repeatedly that Israel needs to be wiped off the face of the earth. Don't you think that Israel has the right to feel threatened?? Ayatollah Khomeini and Amadinajad have echoed those statements several times. Who in their right minds is going to trust a nuclear armed Iran who has stated that an entire nationof people (Israel) should be obliterated from the face of the earth. This is Islamic radicalism at its most dangerous. Why don't you go wait this out in Tel Aviv??

Polka14:

Iran would have a Hell of a hard time attacking the US. Try looking at a globe sometime. They'd have to borrow an air force and a navy.

"Iran has not invaded another nation in centuries."--Wrong. Or have we selectively forgotten when they invaded our embassy (considered US property) and held people hostage for over a year?

So, are you done being stupid? Because you're quite tiresome.

what_the_81

Another war is inevitable until we keep out of foreign affairs and stop doing Israel's dirty work

I agreed with you until here, Israel neither needs nor wants our help, they've said this, more than once, Israel is quite capable of taking care of themselves that's not anti-Semitism that's truth.

Polka 14

Not when lunatics have them.

Like the warmongering US? Or Israel? Iran has not invaded another nation in centuries. Only a lunatic would think that Iran could or will attack the US if unprovoked.

Iran was at war with Iraq and invaded their territory during the 1980's. The current Iranian regime, took Americans against their will when they over through the Shah. The sanctions that have been placed on Iran are in response to known, repeat known support for terrorists and non compliance with UN resolutions concerning their nuclear program. I am sorry, but Iran is bringing all the heat down on themselves.

As far as your statement about nuclear weapons goes, the US dropped two nuclear weapons in anger. We have not used them since, nor have we threatened a country with them except as a response to a like attack. When the decision was made to drop them, it saved hundreds of thousands of lives that would have been lost to an invasion of the Japanese home islands. Or would you rather that we fought for every inch of those islands, killing every man woman and child that would have raised resistance as we attacked?

The main difference is that nobody was picking on Germany for a war

And you are incorrect, in a sense. While there was no overt hostilities toward Germany, after WW1 Britain and France were determined not to let it happen again. Huge reparations and stifling of German industry is what helped Hitler gain power. If you look at the money trail, money to us from Britain and France was going back to Germany to help their situation.

Iran was at war with Iraq and invaded their territory during the 1980's

Iraq invaded Iran first.

The current Iranian regime, took Americans against their will when they over through the Shah.

Then we should have not interfered in their government. It was our mistake and we payed for it.

The sanctions that have been placed on Iran are in response to known, repeat known support for terrorists and non compliance with UN resolutions concerning their nuclear program. I am sorry, but Iran is bringing all the heat down on themselves.

Sanctions only hurt the common people of Iran. It will not effect their ability to develop defense weapons. And how is Iran acting different then the US when we armed insurgents in Afghanistan in the 1980's? They could be seen as "terrorists" too.

As far as your statement about nuclear weapons goes, the US dropped two nuclear weapons in anger.

We didn't drop them "in anger" or we would have dropped them on Tokyo to kill the emperor. We choose strategic cities to bomb to end the war. But this isn't about our use of the bombs. Iran has the same right to have those bombs so they will not become the next Iraq. The US has a long history of sending armies to invade foreign nations and the majority was done for our own selfish interests. Iran simply does not have that history.

Diego Garcia isnt that far from Iran

velocirap

good luck Iran.

you can just feel the stealth bombers warming up

Why are my fellow Americans so clueless? They still believe that we could win a war faster than it takes to get an order at McDonald's. Furthermore, they only believe what the media tells them (which is usually one sided, since we never hear about US aggressions against Iran).

The amount of ignorance & fear in this country will only ensure that yet another wasteful and pointless war will occur.

we actually could what_the_81 (you know how slow McDonalds can be ;))

If we're going to go to war with anybody, we need to have a deceleration, we need to get in kick some ass and get out, no more nation building no more bull@!$%#.

The amount of ignorance & fear in this country will only ensure that yet another wasteful and pointless war will occur.

I agree, people of America we're @!$%#ing tired! Why is that so hard for you armchair warriors to understand?

what_the_81

Destroying the enemy is easy, seeing that they have a chance to save their own lives is the hard part. We could have left Iraq to its own devices after Saddam was caught, but it was Iran that would have benefited, no one else. We could level their entire country, literally put them back into the stone age, but only the extremists would benefit. The best thing is for it not to happen, but that is all up to Iran. I wouldn't count on them having any sense soon though, they are actually their own worst enemy.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

If we're going to go to war with anybody, we need to have a deceleration, we need to get in kick some ass and get out, no more nation building no more bull@!$%#.

Again, history repeating itself

If people had helped Germany after WW1, there would have been no WW2. The same could be said about Afghanistan and the rise of the Taliban. When will people learn???

So you think its ok for iran to get Nukes? Do you think its Ok that they having been helping kill our soldiers in Iraq?

@ Liberallies

ask yourself if we should have been there in the first place.

liberals, always so short sighted, they refuse to see the big picture.

So you think that because we shouldnt have been there that its OK for iran to help kill our soldiers? Is that rally what your saying dipstick? And Im not a Liberal a**clown

Hey LIBERAL LIES...

Pakistan has nukes...and we have given them over 20 billion dollars in AID.

What is your point?

Also let me point out we (the United States) are the only countries to ever use nukes.......

We are nothing but hypocrites.

Hey Liberal Lies - Was it OK for the US to be helping Iraq in their war with Iran, costing them Iranian lives? We provided poison gas (WMD ) to Iraq.

Your claim Iran is helping kill Americans in Afganistan is just Zionist propaganda. We haven't caught one Iranian killing anyone or delivering any weapons to our enemies.

RalphH

Again buddy you are wrong. We have caught Iranian nationals fighting for the Taliban. We have seized equipment that has come from Iran. It is not Zionist propaganda, it is documented fact. Just ask some of the special ops troopers that have been in Afghanistan three or four times.

Oh by the way Ralph, your burka is showing.

RalphH...

I been to the land of sand and sun on more than one occasion... most of the munitions that I was dodging came from across the Iran border....seriously man.. get a clue!

Oh really. Does Iran stamp made in Iran on what they send to the Taliban? There is no reliable way to determine where any weapons come from, unless they are caought in the act. Israel is perfectly capable of putting Persian markings on anything.

I just saw on MSNBC, Congressman Brad Sherman, who sponsored legislation to place sanctions on Iran. It appears our Jewish Congressmen are at it again. Get the Jews out of our Congress. We need representation from men and women who love America first, not Israel.

No more wars for Israel. The Jews lied us into the Iraq war, do not let them do it again. Remember the forged Niger documents.

Ahead of and shortly after the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, a number of officials, including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy Paul Wolfowitz suggested the war could be done on the cheap and that it would largely pay for itself. In October 2003, Rumsfeld told a press conference about President Bush's request for $21 billion for Iraq and Afghan reconstruction that "the $20 billion the president requested is not intended to cover all of Iraq's needs. The bulk of the funds for Iraq's reconstruction will come from Iraqis -- from oil revenues, recovered assets, international trade, direct foreign investment, as well as some contributions we've already received and hope to receive from the international community." In March 2003, Mr. Wolfowitz told Congress that "we're really dealing with a country that could finance its own reconstruction." In April 2003, the Pentagon said the war would cost about $2 billion a month, and in July of that year Rumsfeld increased that estimate to $4 billion.

I didnt say they made then Dip$h*t... Im saying they were being smuggled into the country from Iran....I.E Iran was suppling weapons and munitions that were being used to shoot at and kill US soldiers...Yes I was there...I ran border missions and have seen it first hand. Probably while you were back here in the States smoking reefer, as you obviously never had the fortitude to serve anything but yourself....And I am not sure about where the ranting in the last of your comment came from... seems you have some personal issues to deal with...Like not being a racist!

Try studying history. Hitler was well on his way to destroying all of Europe before we acted. Are you saying we should have just LET him attack everyone else, murder all the Jews, and conquer Europe, because it was none of our business?

As to Japan, I've see the history on that. Pearl Harbor was a mistake. A miscommunication. It doesn't excuse it, but if you think it's okay to just leave aggressive countries alone, then you have your head in the sand. You'd be screaming bloody murder if YOU had been the one bombed. You'd be complaining that the government didn't do anything about it.

jay

I think you've got it backwards. Sanctions were not imposed on Japan for no reason, and Japan did not become militaristic because of sanctions. Sanctions (embargoes) were imposed because of their militarism: Manchuria, 1931; China, 1937. We did not begin embargoing exports to Japan until 1938. As for Germany, they were not under sanctions, though certain activities were prohibited by the Treaty of Versailles, which Germany chose to ignore. The French and British then failed to impose sanctions, or to enforce the treaty, which led to further German treaty violations, "peace in our time" at Munich in 1938, and finally the invasion of Poland in 1939.

True, Japan felt forced to go to war in 1941 because embargoes were a threat to their ability to continue waging war in China, so there was a cause-and-effect link, but sanctions were not the root of the problem. Meanwhile, Germany chose to go to war in 1939 not because they felt threatened, but because of allied weakness. There was no cause-and-effect at all in Europe.

Catsclaw

Hitler was well on his way to destroying all of Europe before we acted.

ummm yep he was but we didn't ACT on account of what Hitler was doing... See Japan attacking PH.

As to Japan, I've see the history on that. Pearl Harbor was a mistake. A miscommunication.

Have you been studying revised history in TX or just drinking the kewlaid? A miscommunication would be a translation like "America LUSTS for you" instead of "America loves your people" Sending multiple carriers and support vessels halfway across the Pacific Ocean was intentional no matter how you look at it. The only miscommunication of the event was the US carriers were at sea not fish in a barrel like the majority of the fleet.

As to Japan, I've see the history on that. Pearl Harbor was a mistake. A miscommunication

This history lesson has been brought to you by your friends at the Tin Foil Hat Encyclopedia.

Catsclaw and jay

You demonstrate a woeful misunderstanding of history. Let's ignore Germany just now and focus on Japan.

Japanese policy was influenced by their military (who had a tendency to do whatever they wanted in case their influence was insufficient to make the government go along in advance with their aggressive designs).

Their military seized Manchuria in 1931.

Their military then staged the incident in Peking at Marco Polo Bridge in 1937 in order to go to war with China.

Things such as the Rape of Nanking (including the sinking of USS Panay) followed.

The United States then embargoed such things as aircraft, while still negotiating with Japan.

Japan continued their war in China, and in 1940 occupied French Indochina. The U.S. then enacted further embargoes on, e.g., machine tools, petroleum products, iron and scrap steel.

The embargoes hurt. The Japanese government were confronted with a choice: end their aggression in China, or go to war with the U. S. They chose war, while continuing to negotiate for the lifting of the embargoes.

The Japanese fleet sailed to attack Pearl Harbor in November, 1941. They were prepared to call off their attack, if negotiations succeeded. They did not.

On December 7, the Japanese ambassador was to deliver a declaration of war just before the attack. The instructions were not decoded in time and he was late. By the time he got to the State Department the attack had already taken place.

That last sequence that I have described is the only thing that remotely resembles the "miscommunication" you cite, Catsclaw.

trust_verify is certainly correct. Training for months to attack Pearl Harbor and then sailing half way across the Pacific to do so is not a "miscommunication."

The Charge of the Light Brigade, maybe so. Pearl Harbor, not hardly.

jay

Did you take the time to find out why both Japan and Germany were under severe sanctions? Germany was responsible for WWI in Europe and were prohibited by treaty from building a military. Japan was in a war with Burma and China for a decade before they attacked the US, that is why they were being sanctioned. Iran is being sanctioned for supporting terrorists in Palestine, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Iraq as well as violations of UN resolutions and the nuclear non proliferation treaty. All three countries have one thing in common, their behavior is what got them sanctioned in the first place, not any want or whim of the US or its allies.

And one more 99% non sense.

They would give them an award too, environmentalists are about that daft .

Isnt it time for your Meds?

fight for freedom...

I do agree with you..

A US Army Veteran.

Wow - you talk about "Muslims breed[ing] hate around the world" but you seem to be breeding some hate yourself.

Don't make them focus the sat. at your home. Do not look up.

Well, the question is whether the US and the world is ready for Iran to have a nuclear bomb. If that idea bothers you, then the next sanction will be hitting Iran where it hurts more. 3 experts on C-Span the other night said that so far the sanctions against Iran have been tolerated, but cutting oil exports will bring Iran out fighting very quickly. Those 3 experts felt the US with others will choose to cut off the exports and thus the money machine that builds the bombs. There is probably no other choice. Keep in mind that neighbors do not want Iran with a bomb. So publicly they may say one thing, but privately they will do another. SA hates Iran. Remember the religious war isn't just with the west, but inside the Arab countries as well.

I thought Obama was best buds with Russia? What happened to that? China for sure doesn't care a darn what the US thinks.

There is a balancing act in the middle-east. It is a balance of politics, history, society, religion vs. religion, vs. sect of religion., vs tribal alliances. It is an impossible mix. Bomb the lot back to the 100"s and see where we stand.

theboys Russia has never been friends with anyone nor will they ever be friends. Americans have been led down the same merry path that we are doing good in the world when we are not and the Middle East is a boil on the butt of the world.

Jessie thanks it is sad that our brave men and women who fought for their country have been so badly abused by the government. Loss of health benefits etc. Lack of recognition for their sacrifice. Many Americans really don't understands what our soldiers go through in the war zone. The scars remain for the rest of their lives and our politicians talk BS but do nothing to help the vets once they return home. I saw a video of an Iraq war veteran who backed down an entire NY police group who were going to push OWS protesters off the sidewalks. The protesters were not acting up in any violent way yet the police were trying to muscle in and push them out. I was very proud of this big strong and courageous soldier who stood up to a corrupt corporate owned police dept called NYPD. Thank you for your sacrifice.

the boys I reread your comment and yes I understand the logic behind the sanction. I am thoroughly disgusted with all the leaders of the world not just the ME or America. These sanctions will no doubt lead to another war because Iran will not back down and will continue to attack their neighbors and the US. The Muslims play into the hands of the Elite who are the real people pulling these strings. They play into the hate and backlash that will eventurally be used to justify genocide. That will be a sad day. There is a push for world domination and NATO is only one part of that push. The NEW WORLD ORDER is no longer a theory it is here it is ugly and it is very dangerous.

DocsubyI would agree it is an impossible mix of warring factions in the ME but bombing them I do not believe is the answer. Contain and let them implode on their own separatist and violent ideology. They will destroy themselves if they don't change this obsessive need to dominate. The same holds true for America and the rest of the world. The world is facing extremely dangerous challenges not only in the form of war but climatic changes land upheavals and other natural disasters. Check the stats this year has seen more climatic upheavals than we have experienced in decades and it is only going to get worse. The worlds leaders should be preparing storing and spending precious resources and energies on preparing for these upheavals not fighting each other for dominion over each other.

Sanctions always work, and work well. The people suffer, the politicians don't.

A time when sanctions worked? How about ending apartheid in South Africa? How about Qadaffi ending his WMD program?

In the eighteen sanctions efforts the United States has initiated since 1990 no country has tried to frustrate international sanctions efforts; nor have any new problems disarrayed sanction coalitions. Forcefully applied U.S.-led sanctions have succeeded at a high rate.

Haiti. A September 1991 military coup against the elected government of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide triggered economic sanctions against Haiti. The sanctions effort was led by the United States and the Organization of American States (OAS) and later included the UN. The primary goals of the sanctions were to punish the Haitian military junta and to restore Aristide to power. The sanctions were lifted in October 1994 when Aristide resumed the presidency of Haiti.

The United States and the UN imposed aid, trade, and financial sanctions on Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) during May-June 1992 to persuade it to reign in its Bosnian Serb clients and thus bring an end to the war that erupted in Bosnia Herzegovina in April, 1992.54 These sanctions were lifted in late 1995 following the Dayton Accords that halted the war in Bosnia.

Economic sanctions are more effective than most analysts suggest. Their efficacy is underrated in part because unlike other foreign policy instruments, sanctions have no natural advocate or constituency. Business leaders tend to dislike sanctions because they disrupt international commerce. Most governments have counterparts to the U.S. State Department, CIA, and Defense Department. These bureaucracies are natural advocates for the use of their own tools— diplomacy, covert action, and military force. Economic sanctions have no equivalent champion. As a result, their successes are widely unreported while their failures are exaggerated by those with an interest in either avoiding their use, or in using other instruments. However, economic sanctions are an important policy tool and deserve more attention from both scholars and policy makers.

Nicely stated.

Liberal Lies go find somewhere else to dump your trite remarks.

dslsca

Qaddafi? Sanctions had little to do with him turning over a new leaf. It was the way that we brutalized Saddam's million man army in a few weeks that made him sit up and take notice. No Qaddafi thought he could hold onto power if he played nice with the world. Guess he never thought that the end would come from within and that the world really did want him gone!

dumb,dumb,dumb,you're really dumb

Yeah, let's start ANOTHER war we can't afford.

Anti semites like you should move to Iran. Im sure they would love you

What does Israel have to do with any of this? The article is about Iranian aggression, not Israel.

It's not anti-semite LiberalLies Israel has already said they don't want or need our help.

I don't see how Israel has anything to do with Iran threatening to blockade the Straits of Hormuz.

In case you didn't know, Israel is very capable of knocking Iran back to the 1500's......If you ask an American pilot who has the worlds best Air Force, they will not hesitate before answering "Israel' Why ? They fly American Hardware, Americans train them, and they have a couple of thousand years experience of getting the short end of the stick. Frankly, I can't believe how laid back the Israeli's actually are !

But the point is that Iran can threaten all they want....they are incapable of shutting down the sea lanes in that area. What are they going to do it with ? Their Navy ? Their Air Force ? Surface missiles ? Slingshots ? Be for real !

All 16 US intelligencies concluded Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. Saying they have a bomb just proves you have not researched the topic and are talking through your anus.

Israel has been lobbying America to attack Iran and I am sure they are behind the idea of the sanctions. Israel was also behind the war in Iraq.

No more wars for Israel.

The UN regulatory commitee has stated that though the Iranians do not CURRENTLY have a bomb, they are well on their way and the program that they have is targeted towards that goal.

This has little to do with Israel. What his has to do with is a VERY aggressive anti-western state in an economic and strategic important region of the world. We "the western world" cannot allow an extreme government to control an important international shipping lane.

Whose to say russia or china hasn't ALREADY given the iranians nukes ?

Russia would also have to give them a delivery system for the nukes. I don't believe Russia would want a nuclear war at their doorstep. They also would not like it if America or the cowardly, State of Israel started a war on their doorstep.

They might get mad or they might get even. No more wars for Israel.

Just remember, if we don't place the sanctions, they won't try to blockade the straits. It is all on us.

Wow you leftys sure have it in for Israel hey Ralphh.bigot?

somedude? Have you heard Ron Paul's sentiment on Israel? Are you calling him a lefty? Sorry dude but the sentiment you are trying to attach to lefties has been claimed by a Republican Presidential Candidate.

Whose to say russia or china hasn't ALREADY given the iranians nukes ?

Obviously not because Israel isn't burning at the moment.

they call it greed