Uncle Joe, I agree. These are NOT children by any stretch of the imagination! 11B2EB4, if this were your family member I'm sure you would not consider this a child's game either. No matter how strong you are you are not going to defend yourself against 6-12 attackers with any hand to hand combat.

Self defense is self defense. The liberal court system has made children into these protected entities who now can under law get away with any and everything. If you are violently attacked by a child and refuse to defend yourself, you are an idiot. Meanwhile, this culture of selective absence of accountability in this country is one of the factors leading to its demise.

Teach the elderly some street smarts? WTF Teach these hoodlums respect and since they prey on the elderly teach and arm the elderly. Hell. I'm about as elderly as can be, at 87, and carry now (CWL), as I have always done, and you can bet the farm if I am attacked that somebody is going to die and it sure as hell will not be me. These are not children and where are their parents in all of this for they bear responsibility for their under aged children's activities. We are in a war and only by following the rules of kill or be killed will we survive. Stop the crap of saying that they are only children for they are vultures preying upon the innocent. It is premeditated violence and should be met with the same.

It's a surprise attack. You won't have time to draw a weapon. I know, it happened to me some years back. I have a CWP. I was waiting at a bus stop, and a group of teenage boys came strolling down the sidewalk. I noticed them, but didn't pay much attention, as they did not seem threatening. The next thing I remember is waking up in an ICU with a breathing tube down my throat. One of them hit me with something that I never saw. They took my wallet, and pistol. I was lucky to survive. My pistol did me no good. Nor did the fact that I am 6'4", 245 pounds and a retired Army Ranger. Situational awareness and avoidance are the first thing you need,. I still carry a weapon, but it does not make me feel invulnerable anymore. They did catch the kids, and they ranged in age from 16-18. Only one was tried as an adult. Of course he claimed that one of the juveniles did the hitting, and got a light sentence, since it was a first offense as an adult.

How tough do you have to be in order to beat down one person with a large group? Bernie Goetz had it right, use an equalizer.

yea...carrying a gun is not the answer. just because you have a chl does not mean your are capable of handling yourself or that gun in that type of situation. Not to mention it sounds like in most cases this is a sneak attack/bum rush attack that takes far less time to execute than for you to pull your gun out. So no...guns are not the answer here.

"It's adolescent and early adults, largely male, showing how tough they are. It's done to show off," Decker said.

It is not tough to attack and beat someone when you have 10-15 friends along to help.

Yes 11B2EB4 - If a child or group of children attack me thinking it is some form of entertainment then they do deserve to get shot - and their parents.

What FIN said.... and then some!

These little animals should be prison raped and then beaten to death, and that should be posted on youtube as a warning to the other little animals.

I will vote for that. However, I have not heard of a "Make My Day Law". Sounds good though.

They gang up on an old person to show how tough they are? What a bunch of brain damaged, weak little farts!

I was in the store the other night, and big group of young teens were walking around, and from the jumbled words I could make out in their slurred speech, all they were talking about was fighting moves. "Yeah man, you can upper cut'em like that - POW! POW! POW!" he said swinging his fists at the other guys. "Quit dog - I'll kick you in da throat..."

I blame video games and violent sports. They say it has no effect on kids, but I never wanted to beat up and old dude when I was a teen. Call me old school.

I think the problem is our culture doesn't provide direction for our children. These children act as they do because they have to invent direction for themselves. Being children, the direction they provide for themselves is primitive, to put it mildly. Yet primitivism might be the answer to this problem, in a way. Primitive societies were without exception, pretty rigid. Every child had a clearly defined path to follow in order to be considered an adult in that society.

Not really so much in our "modern" society. What could we, in this society, point to as the core structure? Nothing. We don't have one. Everyone will tell you the core is something different than what the other person says it is. Our society is something that the bible describes as being tossed about by the waves of the sea, with no firm foundation.

Look around you. What would you say the foundation of our society is? So how do we expect our children to behave when we adults act as if there is no solid ground?

if they are beating people to death, yes. Shoot to kill before they kill you

Our culture does not provide "direction"? Are you kidding me? I think by culture, you mean parents. The implication is that they have no parental role models. Bull. My sister and I grew up when our father deserted us at ages 3 and 11. My mother had to work 2-3 jobs just to support us. She was not eligible for any child welfare consideration because she made "too much money" - barely enough to survive. This was about 50 years ago. However, she instilled plenty of moral responsibility to us and we knew if we misbehaved, we'd have to pay a stiff penalty. The problem is not "cultural direction", the problem is with parents who have not instilled these morals with their children, don't talk to them (different from yelling) and follow through. A lot of parents either don't care or let their kids do whatever they want. This goes for poor and rich parents alike. No one is exempt.

The article was mum about the color of the attackers, but the "posted on a hip-hop site" bit gives it out.
As usual, political correctness to the degree of absurd.

Primitive societies were without exception, pretty rigid. Every child had a clearly defined path to follow in order to be considered an adult in that society.

I think you have a point ... you see it with the "good kids" as well as the "bad kids".

One thing we don't have any long is a "rite of passage" that tells you clearly when you are an adult and when you are not. Without that, we no longer have "children", we have "little adults".

For example, I challenge you (the group) to give me a clear, legal definition of an adult in the U.S.? You would be hard put to do so. And without that definition, and the structure Drak also refers to, we no longer have "children".

Is this group in the article made up of children? It depends upon the definition and therein lies one of our biggest problems.

Wake up folks. Children need discipline, structure and to know when they are an adult and when the gain those rights and responsibilities.

A pistol may not always solve the problem but in those cases, as there always are, where someone is quick enough to get their gun out - hopefully - it will mean that they are not the ones who end up dead or in the hospital.

If you will act like a feral, rabid animal - well, we all know what you do with rabid animals regardless of age.

Hahahahahaha... Children... Some one called these litle F*cks children...

You need to have someone in your family raped to give you a little crash course in reality you idiot...

My brother is a 2nd degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and so am I, My 11 year old niece has been training MMA with us since she was 3 years old... That's the age when my son will star his training.

One on One we could easily take anyone, but we know trouble usually comes in groups..

So... we each carry a Taurus PT92 anywhere we go, my wife has a Beretta 9mm and we also own riffles.

The funny thing is, we are liberals... This notion that liberals label these f*cks as children is some BS made up by Joe the Plummer and his redneck republican followers.

Society has rules, and people that break the rules should be re-educated or otherwise eliminated.

Shooting them is a fine solution. 12 years old or not, once news of this scum getting summarily plugged in the street makes its rounds, this little trend will be over quite quickly.

Ignorance of the situation and reading a bunch of Dr Spock psychology journals doesn't a parent make.

When kids, 11 years old or 17 years old, brandish violence in a group, it is a lethal weapon not merely a physical attack. A group of 6 to 10 "kids" stomping, beating and kicking you to death is not a"problem child". A single person defending themselves against mob violence cannot "easily defend themselves" as some idiot commented.

I suppose if it were your son or daughter or even you that suffered the Kickdown, the sweet bird tone of adorable but needing to learn troubled young children sermon would change quickly

If a young person is shot to death, or if they are attacked in self defense and die later, they pay the hard price of learning life the hard way.

I am for extreme justice in these cases and vehemently against any who profess a leniency due to their age. I offer such people the opportunity to receive the exact same treatment in return, suffer the violence and then watch from their hospital bed as the court places the child in juvenile sentencing and lets them go when they are 18 in a mere few years. Speak what you wish, a fool is a fool. Defend fools if you wish to, but if I were a father of one of these brats, though it would tear out my heart most likely, I would personally hand my son or daughter over to authorities for severe judiciary action and support it, even as the parents in England did to their daughter for her part in the harmful violence on others during the recent years riots. If a teen takes a life through such shameful and degenerate behavior, they deserve adult punishment. Let them rot in prison for the total remaining days of their lives, let sites that openly broadcast supporting videos of such atrocities be condemned and forced to pay restitution from their proceeds of profit to the victim's families.

No form of leniency is needed in these montrous situations. Firm law, firm punishment. If you wish to use child psychology on the youth of today for their part in violence such as this, then do so for them behind bars and if then a major change is seen, let the court decide what action to take. But their price to society, to the family that suffered the loss, to the people within the communities affected is a price to pay extremely, for extreme violence.

Bernie Goetz had the right idea. Better to be charged witha gun violation that be beaten or killed by some punk@ss teenage bitches.

Well put djdrew201. Adolescense is not a license to visit upon others the violent imagings of ones puerile, violent fantascies born out of one's incapcity to cope with the real or imagined difficulties being alive has caused your infantile, irresponsible brain to apprehend.

ALL of us have had "trials and tribulations" while growing up - that's life - nothing gives anyone the right to perpetrate these kinds of "violence for fun" escapes on innocent others. They should be tried as adults and executed if their actions result in the death of some innocent person - regardless of their ages.

Can you IMAGINE the sadness; the horror, the devastation of the Vietnamese family whose member was killed for thrills? Anyone who has the slightest bit of manhood (or womanhood) residing in their body knows without consulting some empty headed Professor of Liberal Arts what the appropriate punishment for such a heinous act should be - death.

Life without parole for the murder, and 10 year mandatory prison sentences for other assailants would be appropriate sentences for these vicious subhuman animals.

I say we give all of the mealy mouth, touchy feely, pretentious, self deluded liberals all of the problems they think they can solve with more government, more laws, more love, and more tolerance and send them to one side of the country. Then, those of us with a brain could live on the other side free of their constant stupidity, whining, rape of our civil rights, omniscient interference in our daily lives, anal retentive control methods, and theft of our resources attempting to create their psychotic idea of Utopia. It's time for a revolution folks.

It profoundly disturbs me to read people openly posting advice to kill children. These are CHILDREN. Arming Grandpa sounds like a terrible idea to me; I would hate to think how easily my ill, feeble 87 year old father could hurt himself or others if he was stupid enough to carry a gun. One poster said that once word gets out that these kids are getting "summarily plugged" things will return to normal. Well, no. We'd be in the Wild West then. It's Christmas Eve. I seem to remember Jesus talking about turning the other cheek, not saying "Make my day."

It profoundly disturbs me when I read adults so immature and intellectually stilted that they are incapable of discerning that some "children" are just plain bad seed, and that no amount of tolerance, coddling, training, juvenile incarceration, or punishment will change them. Though I would not advocate their extermination, I have no problem with seed as bad as that in this article meeting their untimely death at the hands of their intended victims.

By the way, I don't believe in YOUR form of flying spaghetti monster. I have my OWN form of Divine pasta to believe in. His word says: "Do unto others before they do unto you!" (D_Loominator 12-38). May his noodly appendages be with you!

"Hahahahahaha... Children... Some one called these litle F*cks children...

You need to have someone in your family raped to give you a little crash course in reality you idiot...

My brother is a 2nd degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and so am I"

Big deal, who cares? It's to bad your instructor didn't teach you civility or manners while he was at it. Step outside the next time you want to blow your own horn.

It profoundly disturbs me to read people openly posting advice to kill children. These are CHILDREN.

Children that do not deserve to see adulthood.

I certainly hope the cheek you turn is broken and the other being kicked in repeatedly as you lay on the ground getting stomped out. How's that for a perspective change? Assault is assault. In a proper society, these deviants would be routed out and soundly punished by the public as a whole. This "knockout king" crap is the result of a combination of lack of parenting, law enforcement, Joe Citizen not knocking the crap out of a punk for doing anything out of bounds (stares, crotch grabbing, general thug/anti-societal behavior), and a myriad of other ills that befall us.

dslsca --

Wow. Let Jesus turn the other cheek if he likes having his jaw broken. I'm for killing the little bast@rds.

It's just getting ridiculous in this country. No one can feel safe under any circumstances, not man, woman, or child.

And for all those people who think spanking equates to child abuse -- it is past time to blister some butts.

Fleeced Citizen: Let me make sure I understand you. These children are deviants and deserve to be repaid with violence for their actions--no trial, no judge, no jury--but it's perfectly OK for you to wish that I--a total stranger who has done no harm whatsoever to you--get my cheek broken and am repeatedly kicked and stomped? You're no better than the little thugs you condemn.

dslsca, I am also 87 and will tell you straight out that if I saw, or became a potential victim of these thugs, Christmas Eve, or not, I would kill them, in a heartbeat. We did not fight a war to preserve your freedoms in order for them to be taken away by some second level animals. People like you, who always find excuses, for these abhorrent excesses make me absolutely sick and further enforces the knowledge that what we did, and suffered, has come at price too high

These are CHILDREN.

Billy The Kid killed his first man when he was 14. He was considered a child also. These "children" are little more than a waste of oxygen and they need to be put away, preferable in general population where the Bubbas can take a crack at them like they did the elderly.

FINuttmegger: do you not find it oxymoronic to state that you fought to preserve my freedoms, yet you want to dictate to me what I should do?

Nope I fought to preserve them, only! What you do with them is up to you no matter how idiotic or abhorrent I personally find it to be. You still have freedom of choice. Now isn't that special?

Only-in-America: your presumption that neither I nor anyone in my family has been the victim of violence is incorrect.

Calling these individuals children is pandering to an emotional base. They are gang-banging hoodlums, plain and simple. Yes, the gang-banging hoodlums are usually young. Why? Because they're all in jail by the time they're 20 or they're dead. A gangster, regardless of age, is still a gangster. Citizens have a right to defend themselves against the criminal element, and I certainly hope that they do.

dslsca-- you mentioned that Jesus said to turn the other cheek, but let's remember what happened to him, shall we? He was crucified. He was whipped, beaten and then nailed to a cross to bleed to death. And you know what the bible says comes next? He will return "like a lion" and send all of the unrepentant persecutors, criminals, deceivers, traitors, sinners and all the multifarious evil-doers of this world into a lake of fire to burn for all eternity. Forgive me if I feel that some of these punks deserve to be sent there all the earlier.

WMG: I didn't say that people have no right to defend themselves. It sounds to me, however, as though most of the people here urging the Concealed Weapon or Make My Day "solution" to this problem are itching for a fight rather than defending themselves. What happens whey they open fire of a group of European (or African) teenage backpackers who were going to ask for directions to their Christian Youth Camp? I think I'll leave it up to Jesus to decide when and where people should be sent; that's a little above my pay grade.

Robin Steele
Self defense is self defense. The liberal court system has made children into these protected entities who now can under law get away with any and everything. If you are violently attacked by a child and refuse to defend yourself, you are an idiot. Meanwhile, this culture of selective absence of accountability in this country is one of the factors leading to its demise.

"The Liberal court system?" We have the largest percent of our citizenry incarcerated than any country. Anything word that you post after that is minutia.

Anferney Fontenet, 15, Rapes Woman on Busy Toledo Street; No One Stops to Help

That is an example of the chitlens that do this. They will get out at 18 so the only justice you will get is what you can do to defend yourself. If you are able to sense them coming they will be within 20ft needing a quick draw. One thing not mentioned is they start with a solo sucker punch and as long as no resistance attack one at a time. Look at the vids for "knockout king" and see that while the victims are random= white/asian/gay, the attackers are all the same.

I got jumped by 5 after getting money from an ATM, I only ended up with a black eye thanks to me putting the first one down on the sidewalk hard.

Sandtrich the only reason we have the largest percent incarceated is that nations with more africans than us use the death penalty or cuting off parts frequently. CHeck interpols crime #s for africa vs everyone else

FlNutmegger: Taking your eyes off them was a bad thing to do. Never take your eyes off anyone.

sandtrich this might help also

http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl03.xls

steveaae
sandtrich this might help also

http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl03.xls

Are we discussing the same issue? The courts are biased against non-whites in the US. Given the same offense, the rate of incarceration and sentence length for blacks is the highest, Latinos a close second, and white the lowest. The courts are hardly Liberal. If so, why are so many people incarcerated for simple marijuana possession?

The common thread is high crime in a society is poverty.

In this case I doubt that it has that much to do with income disparity. It's a sickness that is prevalent in our society--the harming of someone weaker than them for a thrill.

I believe the common thread of high crime is "mind set" more than poverty. Lot's of poverty stricken people not committing crimes. Lots of "rich" folks committing crimes. It's mind set affected by the influence of "whatever" plus choice.

Sarcasticus1
I believe the common thread of high crime is "mind set" more than poverty. Lot's of poverty stricken people not committing crimes. Lots of "rich" folks committing crimes. It's mind set affected by the influence of "whatever" plus choice.

It's irrelevant what "we think." Just examine the numbers on the EU. Lower poverty rates, strict gun laws, higher literacy rates, and a lesser level income disparity. = lower crime. If you compare with the Democratic Republic of The Congo--poverty as we've never known, low income, 2 class system, low literacy rate, etc.

Also, if you live in a society where violence is desensitized you become more prone to violence. It's not a theory concocted by me--it's from years of work by sociologists.

The wealthiest do commit crimes and their punishment, given the same offense, is lesser than a poorer person. It wouldn't be if they had to use a public defender.

Welcome to Lord of the Flies. Kids making up their own social rules.

Only in America-2604171

"Hahahahahaha... Children... Some one called these litle F*cks children...

You need to have someone in your family raped to give you a little crash course in reality you idiot...

My brother is a 2nd degree black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and so am I"

Big deal, who cares? It's to bad your instructor didn't teach you civility or manners while he was at it. Step outside the next time you want to blow your own horn

That's right... I do blow my own horn.

I am proud of achieving something. Proud of giving my family a legacy of not just sitting down and rolling over. I'm proud to give them tools to defend themselves. I am PROUD of contributing to this society giving the children of other families the same tools to be confident as they walk into a world of drugs and violence.

As for stepping out... ANYTIME ANYWHERE... Bring it on... You should be able to contact me if you feel... "Froggy".

If you feel so touched by the injustice of killing these "children", do the christian thing and go offer them the other cheek.

I don't know about you, but I feel confident that 90% here will agree with me when I tell you that a 12 year old should be able to tell right from wrong... I know I could...

So here's my question to everyone here... Could you tell right from wrong when you were a 12 year old?

sandtrich:

But it is what we "think" that makes a difference about what we do!

dslsca

It profoundly disturbs me to read people openly posting advice to kill children. These are CHILDREN. It's Christmas Eve. I seem to remember Jesus talking about turning the other cheek, not saying "Make my day.

#1.27 - Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:42 PM CST

Its stupid idiotic ideologies such as this that prevent our society from enabling justice to prevail. These are not mere children, these are humans that have willfully decided to be totally inhumane. Stupidity is not the answer, responsibility is. even if we cannot teach these individual young hoodlums responsibility for their actions, we can teach the children worth saving out there about it. Strict adult sentencing of minors in these horrific situations is the only answer. Mandatory judgement of life in prison no matter the age for willful violence like this is the only method and of course there will be more incidents such as this anyway, just because there are stupid people out there that spurted kids like these out of their groins and taught them about no responsibility for teens.

How many children have grown up thinking, they can't punish me or I will call the cops. How many kids look at it in the perspective that they can handle the punishment, or the court won't do anything they can't handle. These little armchair at home idiots that think they are child psychologists are just as guilty for that man's loss of life than the kids who kicked his brains in were. Through their own self glorifying (what would do?) theories they have set this whole stage up for allowing teens to commit crimes with mere reprimands and counseling sessions to scare them off from committing the heinous acts.

Idiot twittwats have entered their opinions far too often, and what I would ask is for you to have a direct face to face with the family of this poor old man, and give them your opinion about the Christmas good will that their father and grandfather could not share with them. Then at least justice could be carried out on one moron amongst us.

uncle joe

easy fix issue old people concealable weapons and add their use to " make my day " law in these cases

Easier said than done. This is not a Clint Eastwood film, this is reality, and in reality, they pick on old people because they have no real difference mechanism to fight back. these criminal thugs would already have them down on the ground beating the crap out of these seniors before they even get a gun out of their purse of holster. Then if these kids learn the seniors are carrying weapons, they will take them away from the old and start using them against others.

What we need to do is make a law where kids or teens are not allowed on the streets unsupervised, and if caught, then toss them into some orphanage where they will stay until the age of 21.

No kid or teen should be allowed to roam the streets unsupervised imo. They all need adult supervision, and once again, people having kids that allow their kids to roam the streets late at night should not be allowed to have them in the first place.

We need to enforce laws and rules so no kid or teen will allowed to roam and run the streets at night or during the day without adult supervision.

Arieus, spot on. The only problem I can foresee, though, is that the very parents(?), and I use that term very loosely, would complain loudly that we would be violating their children's rights. They do not consider that, by being non-parents, and allowing their kids to run free at all hours, to do these deeds, they are violating the rights of the victims and should be charged as; accessories after the fact.

Doesn't matter how many laws are on the books if the justice system either will not or will only selectively enforce them. Do the crime, do the time without all the plea bargaining, delays, probation, time off for good behavior, and benefit of the doubt crap. Personally I wouldn't be opposed to a bit of public flogging of not only these young adults but also their parents as well for failure to be responsible for their under-aged offspring.

I remember a few years ago when the son of an American Diplomat decided to 'tag' a car with spray paint in a foreign country and was sentenced to caning by this countries courts for his vandalism. The sentence was carried out and I bet that person never, ever 'tags' another car again. Simply put, other countries won't put up with the law breaking that has become all too common in America.

That bothered me too. Framing the attacks through the lens of the punks doing it is irresponsible. Anyone assaulting vulnerable people like this needs to be taught in no uncertain terms how serious their actions are. They need to be severely punished, showing that such behavior will NOT be tolerated..

Agreed Adam44, to use the terms Knockout King and game renders these assaults as minor. The secondary effect is that it desensitizes anyone who might read or even see these assaults in person.

I am appalled at the idea of these assaults being posted online.

Sells newspapers, don'tcha know? The idea of calling these hoodlums children kind of stuck in my craw, too! I still want to know where their parents are in all of this.

Absolutely FlNutmegger, fear sells. I wonder how many people reading this article saw themselves in the role of the assaulted victim? Through fear, Americans are controlled, through fear we are divided.

I read a book authored by a battle hardened Navy Seal, he described an encounter with some children armed with AK-47s, "I have never been more afraid for my life, than when staring down the barrel of gun held by a 12 year old child" he went on, "Never have I seen such cold dead eyes."

We all remember when we were children, or adolescents and the feeling of immortality. A byproduct of that immortality is not knowing the true meaning of Death.

As to the parents who knows? I'm sure these punks come from all walks of live, although I'm sure some people would disagree.

Thanks for the respectful comment FlNutmegger, your friend Master Link

Master Link:, thank you for the kind words, my friend. By way of explaining the capabilities of "children" for you youngest brother, Brother #5, was professional Army with the unique distinction of having seen and been wounded in combat from every war starting with WWII through, and including, Viet Nam, told me once, of having been on patrol, when he passed by a young girl (13 or 14 he said) in what was supposedly pacified territory, and after he got by her, she took a rifle from under her dress and shot him in the back before they could kill her. Our cities, today, are beginning to remind me of that story and, while he did not die, we had fun comparing our combat wound scars. His in the front and mine in the back. Entry wound scars aren't much but you ought to see the exit wound scars, holy cow! ;~))

FlNutmegger, first let me humbly thank you for your service.

Something I'd like to add about fear. This last quarter in college I had to write a couple of research papers. One topic I studied was our Main Stream Media. I found this passage in a study;

from 1990 to 1998 homicide fell 32% at the same time network news coverage of crime increased 473%.

Sometimes things aren't what they seem to be, on purpose.

News the filler between commercial breaks.

Withdrawing, have a Happy Holiday, ya'll

Note: I do not support either corrupt political party.

Robert, I don't call people names, but it's odd to me that you have no clue whether someone is liberal or not by their posts on this thread. Being liberal has no bearing on wanting to protect yourself or your family. My suggestion would be to grow up and stop blaming crime on liberals. This isn't about what party someone votes for...it just isn't.

Weak minded individuals following one or two charismatic leaders. They didn't get attention at home and now they belong to a new "family". Same dynamics that street gangs work with to recruit new members.

I wouldn't shed a tear for any of them that were shot by their intended victim. They are most likely ruined for life to one degree or another. Hopefully one of them being shot down might "scare straight" some of the followers. If not, as in all things, the thrill wears out and more violence will be required to get the same "kick" so it will only escalate over time.

What creates monsters like this? Absolutely the number one cause is lack of competent adult (parental) supervision. Being raised in a generally violent culture doesn't help much either. (preemptive wars; let's kill them over there so we don't have to kill them over here.) Violent movies, video games, violent uncensored media such as Youtube or other such sites. A general and nearly complete lack of respect for the elderly in this country. Glorification of violence in sports; World Wrestling Federation, Boxing, Football, Hockey and even Baseball and Basketball turns violent from time to time.

Just being a spectator sport is bad enough but we enshrine the (grade school, high school, college) sport hero and set them up as an example. Sportsmanship? Not much and not often. What gets the headline is the hard hit, the broken back, the win at all costs "Bad Boy"team.

It's a sad news story for Christmas time but in reality it's the life we choose to live that brings it about.

Merry Christmas to All and hope for the best for the victims of these crimes. Which in fact is all of us.

msnbc is just part of the old liberal media that views these 'gangs' as victims of society and are just reaching out for attention! Meanwhile the real victims, like Matt Quain are considered collateral damage from society's evils.... what's wrong with this picture? Most of us would scream for justice and have these kid's and their gang's punished!

America the beautiful.

It is a game to them. They are psychopaths and have no conscience. The plight of the victim means nothing. It's a game, because they are worthless pieces of human protoplasm. I hope they attack me and I know they're coming.

Anferney Fontenet, 15, Rapes Woman on Busy Toledo Street; No One Stops to Help

That is an example of the chitlens that do this. They will get out at 18 so the only justice you will get is what you can do to defend yourself. If you are able to sense them coming they will be within 20ft needing a quick draw. One thing not mentioned is they start with a solo sucker punch and as long as no resistance attack one at a time. Look at the vids for "knockout king" and see that while the victims are random= white/asian/gay, the attackers are all the same.

I got jumped by 5 after getting money from an ATM, I only ended up with a black eye thanks to me putting the first one down on the sidewalk hard.

Master Link: MSNBC is using the term 'game' because that's what the kids think it is.

Blame the parents, not society!

oh well....the sucker punch...is what they do best in washington...thanks for nafta...

bob...

Please don't lump the majority of us into your "we as a society" pot.

The VAST majority of us HAVE taught our children to respect others and themselves. I have NO control over what others do or don't do in their own homes. Once those problems come out into the streets and interfere with my family and me, I will do what is necessary to advise them to change their ways or accept the consequences of their actions.

However, if you feel like a failure, that is your prerogative. Just want to make that clear.

@XDm9mm

I think you know better as to whom I was referring to . Families like yours and mine always pay the price for others . You do the wright things , you teach your kids respect and to play by the rules . The underbelly of society grabs the head lines and we become all the poorer for it .

Guns are not the answer to this problem . It is the complete failure of their parents . We have an entire class of people in this country who have lost their moral compass . It is long past time we turned our efforts to turning that problem around .

I am very sorry if I offended you . That was not my intent . But if I put it any other way then I would be labeled as a raciest , bigget or worse

bob

Bob1/28

Rest assured, you did not offend me. No apology necessary. I've seen previous posts you have made and accept that we come from shall I say opposite sides of the political spectrum.

You know as well as I do that, no guns are NOT the answer. Unfortunately, there are those very unfortunate times when they ARE necessary to ensure one does not become a victim of those that have NOT had the reasoned upbringing of the vast majority of people.

And regardless of what one posts, you also know as well as I do that SOMEONE WILL take offense and attack you. Regardless of how well reasoned or intentioned the post is.

Merry Christmas and have a very Happy and SAFE New Year!!

XDm9mm

A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY HEALTHY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY !!!

bob & family

I agree with the civility shown here but sure do wish that the parents of these hoodlums had taught their children/thugs the same values. Now having said that, I still intend to carry, which I still do legally, and, at the slightest provocation, it'll be off to the race for somebody! At 87, I guess I would be a natural target except this natural target will have some unnatural responses for them.

FIN - Still voting for your comments, my Brother.

Violence by young punks is nothing new. We haven't sunk as a society, we have advanced. I think that today is much better than the past. Go back to the 1800's. Billy the Kid? A 16 year old killer. The gangs of New York in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The riots and cop killings of the 1960's and 70's. These kids do not represent the vast majority of high school kids who are alive today. They are the delinquent minority that we have always had.

It horrifies me to even read the comment that "87, I guess I would be a natural target". A young adult who sees grandparents as natural targets is going to grow up to be a real boil on the a$$ of society! Take em down, Nutmegger! I would do the same. After reading this, time for me to look into getting some pepper spray. This is beyond the oft said phrase: "kids today...." Its like Lord of the Flies out there!

I also have to comment on the fact that this article also hits on the intolerable situation of health care in the USA. The pizza kitchen worker guy gets assaulted, beat within an inch of his life, in a random act that he could not have forseen or prevented, and now he his saddled with medical bills he cant pay - because his employer couldnt afford (decent) benefits, and as a pizza kitchen worker, neither could he.

We need single-payer health care, at the very least for situations like these! Copays shouldnt even be inflicted in situations like these.

The guy was just getting by. Not only did these twits cause him physical damage and pain, but also financial damage.

I hope all these kids kill each other over Nike shoes or something, and hurry up and Decrease the Surplus Population!

Merry Christmas!

At the risk of quibbling, Billy the Kid mostly killed people who deserved it to some degree. There was a local civil war with complicated roots, but arguably he was on the better side. At the very least he wasn't bushwhacking people just for fun.

No easy solution. What will fear of attack lead to? Older people carrying side arms? Dead children? Special jails for underage violent offenders? More prosecution of minors as adults?

Hopefully the police will be effective in ending this fad.

because i didn't have a weapon i had something almost like this happen to me, that's why i carry a lot of weapons and have advanced training, now if they charge me ill cut them to ribbons and if its a large group ill have 17 rounds in 45 waiting for them nothing says he will kill you like a katana strapped to your back and a military pouch filled with knives and tools.

Dont include "we as a society" , The prez of mexico Fox said "where there are mexicans there is mexico". Well where you have africans you have africa, check out the interpol #s for crime in africa vs everywhere else.

Scarlebirds they start the attack with sucker punches from behind. So if you sense it they will likly be within 20ft and you will have to do a quick draw.

they better be lightning fast i only have a 10 degree blind spot straight behind me and i can see in the dark i have trouble with light and I'm very fast plus i have training the shock to their friends when i put a gaping wound with a knife from behind will be enuf time to draw a gun at the ready. i will never EVER drop my guard and after what has happened to me in the past, who can blame me?! plus i keep an eye out for anyone whose in a group i don't ever trust groups of people i don't know and they aren't getting the drop on me ever again. if they try i will defend myself lethally if i have to and my friends and family will hunt them down if they succeed in causing me harm.

G-d Bless You.

So eggin a couple Jewish boys is a crime, but beatin down ole people is a game? They should ALL be dealt with HARSHLEY!

XDm9mm: I actually own the same piece as your screen name, though it's not my carry piece-- SR9c for that. This situation (15-on-1) is precisely why hi-cap magazines should always be legal and available.

Unrelated, I live in St. Louis myself, and I've never heard it called the "Knockout King". It's always called "Polar Bear Knockout". I guess the media chooses to keep us in the dark on this, since it wouldn't be PC to infer why it's called that.

I've always been partial to the m1911 .45 myself, but the XDM is a fine piece.

Good job XDM. Too bad you didn't "wing" a couple of them - nothing terminal; shoot them in the legs so they couldn't get away and would have been easily caught.

Good thing you don't live in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. It is a felony to brandish a gun in public. You probably would have been arrested. No good deed goes unpunished. Your incident is a great example of why the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Agreement is a good thing. Write your legislators and urge them to enact it.

Thank God you mentioned it Rob - I was thinking of moving to Massachusetts. Certainly one should not be surprised that Masschusetts has such restrictions.

Glad I live in an open-carry state with easy to understand concealed carry laws.

little focker, perfect response and well done! I am one of those who has always relied upon my weapons which I have with me all the time as a form of deterrent. Has worked for me a number of times over the years. My only cautions that I gave verbally, when challenged, was that if I ever had to draw that weapon then someone was going to die. A snub nosed .38 Police Special does wonders at getting attention.

Hoka Hey!

Bless you you little fucher. I had to carry a 9mm when I lived in my ole neighborhood that became culturally enriched after the riots in the 1960s and early 70's. It saved my live and others several times.

Thankfully I have lived the last 30 years in backward Bama and Ky where people are still respected and do not benifit from Liberal enlightenment. Ain't noone have their own special muscle like the big shots gotta have in the Big DEMO cities. LOL!.

I believe that if I were assaulted in such a manner and couldn't take any of the little bastards out, I'd look 'em up later assuming I lived through the event. There is no possible way I would let this type of thing slide. I wouldn't kill them; there's much worse things that could be brought to bear on these little @!$%#s and the expense incurred by the family to keep that particular individual alive. Pretty soon, we're gonna look like Israel with armed groups of people on every street corner just to keep the peace we used to enjoy, and take for granted.

Florida liberalized (as in opened up) the chance for people to carry concealed handguns; basically if you had no criminal record you could. In the first two years, if I am remembering correctly, only one person had his permit revoked.

Crime against elderly people dropped around 30 percent; apparently the criminals felt it was too risky to go after people who could kill their scuzzy asses, instead of them being able to beat the "elderly, weak" person to a pulp.

The press - prior to this law being passed - railed to the high heavens about how it would be "gunfight at the OK Coral" time; with wanton gunfights taking place all over the place and countless innocent victims killed.

Guess what? Didn't happen - but what did happen is that the predatory scum, who previously had felt that could attack with impunity those whom were older and physically weaker than they, decided to take"pause for thought" with the attendant drop in crime.

The people who say guns don't deter criminals are about as bright as those who think we should "make nice" with terrorists who would rip our your throat, mine or your children's with gleeful delight and say it is out fault they hate us so.

No, if someone is threating your life you have a right to do whatever is necessary; whether they are teenagers or terrorists from Saudi Arabia doesn't make no never mind - all the same - and each deserves the same fate.

That's the problem.... you never KNOW when a firearm will be needed.

As many will say, and it is unfortunately, true in too many circumstances;

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

RESPONSIBLE firearm ownership and concealed carry are NOT the problem as is evident from this article.

What about when the game they play is called, "shootface king" and they all are carrying various highly modified AR-15 variants, gimmicked with green lasers, thermal scopes and 40 clips each in a bulletproof carry rig? Not far off, they way they're selling - amen to defending against eventual china invasion, and dropping brutalising punks, but I don't want to carry a barrett to dinner just to stay ahead of the shootface king if compromise is possible

I completely agree with u, but in this day and age where criminals have the same rights as the victims, u best make sure the person u shoot is dead. dead men tell no tails. :P

Yep, and fire for mass and empty either the clip or to the last chamber. Trying to disable like Dirty Harry only works in the movies.

I say kill them. Punks like that deserve to be dead.

You can use deadly force to protect the life of the victim. No point in telling them anything if the victim told them to stop. You would only give them a chance to pull a gun on you. Aim center mass you don't want to be like the NYC cops that only hit 11 out of 44 rounds at close range.

Don't insult rabid dogs like that, they have a disease and can't help themselves. These punks knows what they are doing is wrong.

Knockout king is started with a sucker punch from behind, so if you sense it coming they will be within 20ft.

Anferney Fontenet, 15, Rapes Woman on Busy Toledo Street; No One Stops to Help

That is an example of the chitlens that do this. They will get out at 18 so the only justice you will get is what you can do to defend yourself. If you are able to sense them coming they will be within 20ft needing a quick draw. One thing not mentioned is they start with a solo sucker punch and as long as no resistance attack one at a time. Look at the vids for "knockout king" and see that while the victims are random= white/asian/gay, the attackers are all the same.

I got jumped by 5 after getting money from an ATM, I only ended up with a black eye thanks to me putting the first one down on the sidewalk hard.

Uh. . . if you already know you'd acquit them before you ever hear the evidence, you'd be legally and morally barred from serving on a jury to try them.

than so would 99% of America we've all had enuf of this bull crap, they would really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find someone with little enuf common sense to vote opposite of logic, anyone who attacks for any reason other than to protect deserves what they get, that's also why when I'm training at the shooting range with all my weapons including my bladed ones i only aim at the head,neck and strict middle of the chest, they wont have a second chance and i wont give them one.

the journalist did not make a "game" out of it. the thugs did. he did not invent the word "gang" either.

Looking for bleck people to defend against white people. and a television camera.

Hardly. How many incidences of this are we talking about?? It's insane to call it a 'generation' of young people we're talking about the 0.00003% here. Get a grip, MSNBC.

Where are the parents you ask? Busy telling their kids to "go play" or "go find something to do" while they, the parents, are busy texting/talking on their iPhone or playing on their laptops.

Where are the courts? Too afraid to severely punish these 'animals' because those judges that do won't get re-elected.

And society is afraid to say or do anything because for years now parents have been convicted of 'abuse' if they try to punish their 'bad' child in any way that the agents of the Department of Child Welfare think is not appropriate.

Even though teachers are tasked with the being the role model of children, they don't dare tell the parents what they, the parents, should do to help keep the child from becoming a 'bad' child. To do so would instigate a law suite against the teacher for violating the child/parents rights to privacy.

Don't worry STH. Even if there are 20 coming after you, after the first two or three go down, the rest will very quickly reconsider just how dedicated they are to pressing the attack. After all, they are cowards....otherwise the situation would have never developed in the first place. You might even have time to reload and take a few more as they flee. Buy yourself a couple of speed loaders for the wheel gun.

I always have two extra speed loaders when I carry my 357, and two extra mags when I carry the 9 or the 40. Peace through superior firepower.

da doc... I would strongly advise AGAINST worrying about those that flee... unless you have a desire to be bunk mates with some uncouth bubba!! LOL

I have 2 spare 19rd mags for my carry 9 and a nice 357 on the ankle as a backup.

Have a peaceful and Merry Christmas and a Happy and SAFE New Year!!

Point well taken XD...shooting them in the back is just wishful thinking...I have always been a little OCD when comes to taking out the trash......

@da doc: I have several speedloaders but usually only carry the one due to the bulk and weight. If a gang consisting of multiple members continues to attack after a dozen of their number are burned down, it's time to get the heck out of Dodge because I've made my point and don't need to stick around so they can make theirs.

thats y i carry a 45 (i have the permit) 8 +1 + spar 8 round mag=17

if they come at y put them down,if they run let them go and call the cops and let them deal with them

Knockout king is started with a sucker punch from behind. So if you sense it they will be within 20ft meaning you need to draw quick.

Anferney Fontenet, 15, Rapes Woman on Busy Toledo Street; No One Stops to Help

That is an example of the chitlens that do this. They will get out at 18 so the only justice you will get is what you can do to defend yourself. If you are able to sense them coming they will be within 20ft needing a quick draw. One thing not mentioned is they start with a solo sucker punch and as long as no resistance attack one at a time. Look at the vids for "knockout king" and see that while the victims are random= white/asian/gay, the attackers are all the same.

I got jumped by 5 after getting money from an ATM, I only ended up with a black eye thanks to me putting the first one down on the sidewalk hard.

We have a world to police, tax breaks to give our wealthiest and the sweetest pay and perks to give our illustrious leaders, we can’t afford anymore to take care of our own nation and people. Besides police are being killed in record numbers and when one does harm some punk you have public outrage about police brutality and shyster lawyers looking to sue.

Mark - you're right; I think my priorities need adjustment!

What am I thinking, being concerned for public safety.

Public castration in front of their entire school, with the girls sitting in the front row laughing at them.

Steve, I think the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment would rule out your solution, or do you propose allowing a handful of stupid, violent punks to make us throw out the Constitution?

OK, how about public execution.

How about seeing if there's even a tiny chance on rehabilitating one or two of the twelve year olds we're talking about?

The rehabilition would a taste of their medicine administered until they get the message if they survive. They can then experience what they call a game personally and painfully.

The law never works for the good guys. They could say that you tried to fondle them and it was self defense. Now where do you stand. Criminal minds know the law well. Thats why they challenge it

Yeah and then get the crap sued out of you by the delinquents family and possibly charged with murder if the only witnesses are the punks themselves. Another problem in our society is the bleeding heart jerks we get on juries that want to give these little punks a break.

Knockout king starts with a sucker punch from behind. If you sense it they will be within 20 meaning you need to draw and fire quick.They only attack when one is alone or with a wife.

Anferney Fontenet, 15, Rapes Woman on Busy Toledo Street; No One Stops to Help

That is an example of the chitlens that do this. They will get out at 18 so the only justice you will get is what you can do to defend yourself. If you are able to sense them coming they will be within 20ft needing a quick draw. One thing not mentioned is they start with a solo sucker punch and as long as no resistance attack one at a time. Look at the vids for "knockout king" and see that while the victims are random= white/asian/gay, the attackers are all the same.

I got jumped by 5 after getting money from an ATM, I only ended up with a black eye thanks to me putting the first one down on the sidewalk hard.

Why do posters like you always turn every event into a racial rant? Are you really that insecure and stupid? Besides, we all know that it's white punks like you who are the biggest cowards on the planet; look who the loud mouth losers are on the 'Vine or Yahoo - white men who wouldn't dare voice their ignorance in person or without a gang of equally stupid 'buddies'.

Random attack as,"Knock Out King.? If you attack me, you will recieve without hesitation a .45 Acp IN YOUR BRAIN AND I made it so, it is because I am an American who won't put up with this BULL@!$%#!!

13.5 yrs in the Navspecwarcom community, starting in Viet-Nam. Bring it on a$$holoe ki9s as you meet your maker for your stupidity!!!!! How old are you? 19? Want to live to 20!!!!

Robert: you ask how old the kids are. The article states they are as young as eleven or twelve. Do you hold an eleven year old to the same standard of responsibility as you'd hold a nineteen year old?

that's why the first round is a oc pepper bag round or pepper blast that way you have proof that you tried to save them from themselves before you blew them away. as for me, the police know who i am and expect me to brain them, a few would even encourage it, you gain the respect of the city by being helpful and honest and most of all honorable. you protect everyones rights and help out even if you dont like them that much.