I've been a Instrument instructor of the past 35 years in my spare time. While there are times when you can go up in something light and break out on top, there is little reason to challenge mother nature hen she is up on her hind legs doing the "bitch dance". When the reports are nothing but bad, more bad, and worse, there is little reason to consider it. As the old saying goes, "If the birds aren't flying, you shouldn't be either!"

Semper Fi: Although this was a horribly tragic crash, the pilot was a complete moron that cost the lives of of four others as well. "You can't fix stupid", as this was totally senseless. Nature has a way of culling the sick, the injured, and dumb. My prayers are with the family...

Why would any pilot with just half a brain be flying in that kind of weather??? And flew the opposite direction from what he was told???

My heart goes out to the plane crash's victims' families as well as those involved in the car wrecks. Hopefully though this will serve a lesson to those still alive in these areas: Never underestimate mother nature. You go into something thinking you can beat it, ride it out, etc, you will lose. If you can't handle 10 inches of snow, stay inside. Take it from a life long resident of some of the most bizarre weather in history, the lovely State of Ohio: If it looks sort of ok, it isn't; if it looks bad, it's worse than you thought.

For example: We just had 65 degree weather, unheard of for this late in December, and then had a light dusting of snow the next morning, and today it is back in the 60's. Last winter, we had 2 major blizzards, the 2nd one in March, then the next week it was hot weather and stayed hot until, well basically now. The first blizzard last year was at least 24" in its heyday, a total of 3 feet once it died off and it only spanned maybe 5 hours total, with only the last 12 inches accumulating in the last 4 hours. We are no strangers to snow. Articles like this always make sad, and frustrated, because it can be prevented. Yes, you're not used to driving in snow, but guess what? There's a simple rule to follow that everyone should adopt: go out as little as possible, make your outings count, and don't drive if there's even a small doubt in your mind about you or your family's safety.

As for the pilot, he might have been caught by surprise, or thought it was nothing, after all this is New Mexico and they don't normally see weather like this save for areas near the Rockies. He probably underestimated the strength and severity of the storm, and when it blew up he may have gotten turned around on accident. It was a single prop plane, the thing probably iced up on him. Kind of hard to fly a rock... "'There are bold pilots, and there are old pilots. However, there are no old bold pilots.'"

I find it so sad and kind of irritating that just yesterday, the message boards were full of naysayers that were laughing about the storms coming in. Well, are you still laughing now that people are DEAD from the storms? This is winter, any kind of bad weather can be serious.

Exactly Cats. This is December, and you just never know what Mother Nature is going to give you. Especially in those areas that don't normally get snow. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING being out in that mess? NOTHING is that important. Stay home.

Aviation : Today what you have out there are young middle aged people from 20 somethings to 40 somethings, that have sum money, however they got it, everythings the fast lane - Todays young " Inexperienced" , lackadasical Pilots are NOT seriously into Aviation, other than to get somewhere a little faster in some sort of style ! Most are NOT mechanically inclined enough to even maintain their own Aircraft rather it be a prop or a Jet - "Precautions" are a "NO-GO" with sum of those folks , their too busy playing with their electronic devices ( Blackberrys - I-Pods- Apples etc. ) usually about everything but what they really should be attentive to ( WEATHER & ATIS ), they don't take Aviation & Flying Serious enough, its NOT even a hobby to them, just another means of transportation ( like an SUV OR HaRLEY) . There have been a huge surge / rash of small plane crashes in just the last 12 months, everything from crashing into homes to crashing on hi-ways, and lets NOT forget the Phoenix Arizona mountain top plane crash last month that killed a family of 4 that was all over the internet. How many of the these PILOTS - actually checked their FUEL before take off ?? and I don't mean Fuel level either , Talking about moisture content / water / H20 in your Fuel, cold weather high altitudes freezing temps & badd Fuel mixture translates into carbs freezing up faster and engines NOT running right & stalling out, at high altitudes, how many noticed their pitot tubes clogged or Froze up,, any nuts & bolts loose on Flaps, landing gear working properly, All instruments calibrated and working properly ??? is the LORAN working properly and calibrated & programmed, all Lights working properly ?? Engines putting out correct thrust , pitch of the propeller correct ? weight inside the Aircraft accurate for the type of Aircraft ?? so many Factors come into play, we all "ASSUME" they were taught this or learned this in the Flight Training, before ever going solo ~ !! My point is this to everybody : IF YOUR NOT SERIOUSLY into Aviation, Flying and Airplanes and the mechanical and Technical aspects of Flying , than stay the hell out of it altogether ~ !!! Flying & Aviation is NOT like driving your SUV or HARLEY !!! Its way more Serious than that !! and you'd better Damn sure know what the hell your doing for your Saftey as well as others on the ground and the other pilots in the Air as well !! as well as the ATC crews who man the Control towers ! Please give us more Captain Skully's ( who landed safely in the Hudson 2009) and give us more Travolta's ( John Travolta - Actor fom Florida) , who by the way is a seasoned Professional Pilot and flys his own Boeing 707 Jetliner that he restored at his own expense and dumped countless amounts of his own money into his Flying Career in his early days , and has never ever had an incident with any of his Aircraft !! Because that man takes Aviation & Flying Seriously !!!! has all his life !!!! Right Along with Harrison Ford ( Actor), who just happens to Fly his own Vintage Dehavilland Beaver another man who takes Aviation & Flying Seriously !!! I'm also quite sure there are many other pilots out there who are great and especially those Jumbo Jet pilots of the 747-400's and A380 Pilots & 777 and the huge Transport pilots who know their stuff, its serious business up there folks , NOT like a jaunt on a Harley or a quick trip in your over-rated SUV - more need to take it serious, plan, inspect, re-inspect, be prepared, be cautious and ready ! My FATHER FLEW FOR 50 YEARS , without ever an Incident !!!! I myslef Fly too,,, just I stick to " Paper Airplanes" !!! The Jet .

JFK,Jr. flew in bad weather. He had been warned!!! But, of course, The Beautiful People are exempt from everything.

hey Jet;

I'm just curious, and assuming you are a pilot, Short of putting the plane on stands, how are you going to test landing gear function on the ground? If you fold them up and it's on the ground, and they won't lift it back up. You also didn't mention routine things like taking tire pressure and physical condition check, instrument checks, etc. Anyway, what are you flying that it has "carb's" an old Waco or what? My P-51 was built in 1943 and it's fuel injected.

Until the NTSB report comes out, all the arm chair experts, most of which have probably never touched a plane let alone flown one, need to shut up. And You, as a pilot, should know weather can change rapidly and go from VFR to IFR in a heart beat. You've never had a sudden weather change mid flight with all your hours of flight time? Seriously? That's what your going with? And spare me the, "VFR should be eliminated all together", speech. We both know that would ground 80% of G.A craft in service today, including your carburated whatever and my P-51. It can't be Instrument retro fitted, not room in the cock pit for all the added equipment. Our Beech Baron has full instrumentation, so I can fly in most weather conditions.

Don't be so quick to condemn a fellow pilot. In my experience, there are no perfect pilots. There are good pilots and those same pilots who make a bad call or has an equipment failure. If the failure is bad enough, 1 million hours at the controls won't save the aircraft. People aren't perfect and neither are planes. Lacking the redundant systems of jet liners a major failure in a General Aviation craft and you will be confetti on the ground. Remember chief, the next news report could be about you. I keep this in mind every time I do a walk around and pre-flight a plane. I've been flying since I was a kid. My Dad was career Air Force, (1939 to 1970). Including Helo's. Every time I hear about a crash, my first thought is not what a pilot "did wrong", it's what happened to the plane that he couldn't recover from it and of the family or families involved.

I will concede I'm not thrilled about the "sport pilot" class. Not nearly enough training in my opinion. But, that's my opinion. On the other hand, We all have to start somewhere don't we, just like you and I, huh? I flew for about five years, under my Dad's watchful and uncompromising eye, before I got my license back in the stone age of 1969. My trainer was the same P-51D I fly today, it was Dad's. I've flown many planes over the years including some great ones like, P-38's, 47's ,40's, Cessna Sky master, Pipers, Mooney's, De Havilands, B-17, Waco's a Sopwith Camel and British Tiger Moth and Spitfire Super Marine. Any of them could have had a problem that killed me.

It ain't always pilot error, my friend. Equipment failures are real high on the list. Icing, Instrument malfunction, many causes, to just call a pilot a moron. With that attitude, you could easily over look something due to your "I know better" mind set. What you need is the attitude, did it check everything? and check it again. I take nothing about a plane for granted and I maintain a healthy respect for a machine that could take my life as quickly as it is pleasurable to operate. So, Instead of assuming, wait for the report. In the mean time remember, it can happen to any pilot. People died, it's not your place to judge, unless you're the NTSB investigator in charge.

Agreed. We can still see our grass, too. This weather is nuts!

Yea I live in north dakota & usually we have at least a foot of snow by now but the little snow we did have melted already! Truly is crazy weather.

I like grilled cheese

Schoolyard,

I was in Duluth over the weekend and there was no snow there, but north of Virgina has some. However, we do have about 10" of ice on many of the lakes. Dont know if northwestern MN has snow or not.

northern girl,

Living in Grand Rapids.No snow but lots of ice.

Schoolyard,

Im up by the BWCA. Guess here's the only place in MN with snow. What a weird Dec. Good for ice fishing though. No snow means very little slush on the lakes.

People with SUVs think they are invincible and can drive like it's July.

Yep...you can trash that big 4-wheel drive as easily as a miid-sized car.

What part of "blizzard conditions" do you not understand?

I am sorry people died...they should have headed the warnings AND not been so selfish when driving (I see it all the time down here in Alabama...for some reason the laws of physics do not apply, or so they think)...

NOTHING is worth getting killed over. Sit at home and enjoy the snow...take the kids sledding. Build a snowman...if power goes out, sit w/your blankets and candles and keep each other warm...at least you have shelter.

Agreed. I feel sorry for these people and their families, but for goodness sakes people, don't fly or drive! Just stay inside. Is going out really worth risking your life?

I work as a nurse and if I don't go to work, who is going to take care of those patients? It's easy to say "stay inside, moron" but depending upon your job, that's not always possible...

A friend of mine showed me a memo that was circulated at his job earlier this week. It said that inclement weather was no excuse for missing work, and reminded people that unexcused absences were grounds for termination. So in case you were wondering why many people do fee it's necessary to go out in this weather...

The stupidity of some people is just amazing to me!!!

Lola,

I'm speechless....Jobs are hard to come by now but I believe I would be looking for other employment..

Do not understand why humans think they can beat Mother Nature. Last year in Dallas, I was appalled at the idiots who just "had" to get to work in one of the worst ice storms ever! Only those in service industries - hospital, fire, police - should even think about getting out in this kind of weather. Utter stupidity.

Lola, dano couldn't have said it better. There is no job out there, save for those in medical or rescue fields (doctors/nurses/firefighters, etc) that should even be out on the roads. When we get a snow emergency level of 3, no one is out on the roads but those select few, and those caught out on the roads in such weather are arrested for endangering other lives by being out in the first place!! -- That being said I am curious as to where you and your friend live, because in some states a small dusting of snow (where you can still see grass through it) is grounds for closing schools. I can see how in some cases employers would be a little upset at employees calling off due to the weather.

Marlene, as a nurse you are unfairly expected to have to get to your job in conditions like these. No one is telling you personally to stay inside, so try not to take offense to this. But other jobs, like when I used to work part-time at Wal-Mart for example, are just not worth losing your life over. Nothing other than saving another person's life is worth risking your own life, and those in the police and firefighter positions know that more than any of us - they gladly do so. Nurses aren't really sworn to anything like that, but they still are there to save other lives when the circumstances arise.

NO JOB is worth your life. Marlene, I appreciate all you do in your profession. It's something I could never do, but that said there are VERY FEW reasons to be out in blizzard weather. Why the states didn't declare a state of emergency and Forbid people from driving is beyond me.

I live in New England where we are used to unexpected snow storms. If I can't see past the hood of my car, the car coming towards me can't see me. I stay home.

One of the few times they had snow down here last year, the hospital here had the nurses and personnel stay overnight instead of leave...which I can understand, but then only fed them one meal, even though they were there for almost two days.

Kinda selfish, connsidering they were stuck there. I can see where medical personnel and anyone else that has a job that is vitally important is between a rock and a hard place. But if you have people that can be hurt over anythinig less, you should show them some common sense and let them stay home.

Hey Jodi;

If no one is out in a level 3, A law student could get everyone of these people arrested for"endangering the lives of outs" off in a heart beat, since there is no one one the roads. If there are, why were they not arrested. Police aren't on the roads either, so your not endangering them, they hang out at the donut shop or Wendy's. Someone said "hero's" regarding police. Really? No, it's their job. Hero's are the one's like lifted the car off the motorcyclist after his was pinned under it and it was burning. Hero's are the young Marine who saved 33 of his comrades at great risk to himself and being hit three times in the process. Hero has become lessened by applying it to liberally to describe public servants. It's their job. Are there instances when they are heroic, sure. But just the job description does not qualify. Sorry.

I drove through this storm from Denver to Kansas City. Funny thing the only "official" vehicles I saw were road crew trucks. Didn't see a single cop of any stripe. I also didn't have any trouble doing it, in this case my 2 WD Ford pickup. Then again, I don't try to do a Mario Andretti impersonation. I averaged about 40 until I got east of Wichita, Ks then 50-55 to Manhattan, Ks and posted speed limit from there, as the roads were just wet. But then, I have over 2 millions miles as a professional truck driver. If we hide from the weather, you people don't eat. As most of your food and everything else comes on trucks.

This storm is no different than many, many I have driven through and not nearly as bad as some others I've run through. It's winter, storms happen. When you big city folks are hiding under the bed, for many of us, it's business as usual. Engineers, Truck driver, Farmers, Ranchers, Doctors, Nurses, Road crews and yes, Cops and Firefighters, all have to brave the elements to make sure things get done. You all would have a fit if you showed up at an E.R. with an emergency to be told,"Sorry, closed due to weather, come back tomorrow".

Marlene: You have some points on your side. However, I have slept at the hospital. I remember one night when staff were laid out all over the place. The only bed I could find was the delivery table. Good thing no baby was born that night.

Hey Nicodemus,

Jodi is right. They are endangering other people's lives because other people have to go rescue them when they get stranded. Those rescuers have to risk their well-being to save the maroons that decided to go for a little drive.

If they don't want the risk, get another job. It's what their paid to do. And it's IF they get stranded. I drove through this storm from Denver to Kansas City. In my 2 wheel drive F-150, no problems at all. I gave a ride to a couple that slid into the median with their Smart for 2 to Hays, Ks. Also saw none of these rescuers you speak of on the road or any cops for that matter, just road crews. I-70 east bound was being closed behind me as I went. There have only been a few times in more than forty years of driving I have had hold up and waited out a storm, all of them in Alaska. This one was no worse than many, many storms I've seen and not as bad as many I drove through. What? it's snowing shut down the entire country? Is that your approach? Storms happen, Winter, spring, summer, and fall. If everything stops because of a storm, you'd be whining about the stores being out of everything. Life goes on, drive according to the conditions and you won't have problems. Drive a vehicle suited to the conditions and that a big help to. Tiny little cars in deep snow are not proper for the conditions. The couple in the "not-so" smart car would have been much better off with snow mobiles than a tiny, light, little car.

Some storms should be waited out, this was one wasn't the monster they were telling people it was. Just another snow storm, but then, I've dealt with the weather all my life. I've always had to, couldn't miss work because of a few snow flakes. I made trip without incident, just as I have for years. But, I guess I haven't been conditioned to fear every storm the blows up. Thunder storms, tornadoes, snow storms, all part of life. Deal with them and get on with it.

Lola's right. I worked for SBC/AT&T for twenty three years--the same memo went around every winter--Snow/traffic would not be excepted as an excuse for being late to work. Sorry if it snowed in the middle of the night, you should have watched the weather report, come into town, and rented a hotel room. And make sure you started walking early enough to reach the building and your desk on time. If you were 10 seconds late (and your boss caught you) you were still tardy. Four tardies and you were unsatisfactory for a year. We were only allowed 32 hours per year sick time, too. But that's another story.

I drove through this storm from Denver to Kansas City.

I averaged about 40 until I got east of Wichita, Ks then 50-55 to Manhattan, Ks

If you drove from Denver to Kansas City and you got anywhere close to Wichita then you seriously need to go buy yourself a GPS as you went a few hundred miles out of your way. Wichita is in south central kansas, about 40 miles south of where I am. Manhattan and Kansas City are further north, and on a straight line with Denver if one travels on I-70. This makes me question the veracity of the rest of your post.

I find it interesting that the Clayton Super 8 Motel in Clayton, New Mexico is now located in Colorado..........

Why is it that a bunch of people traveling through a strom are "liberals?" My dad is as conservative as you can get, and he had an accident in New Mexico a few years ago traveling through blizzard conditions when if he was smart, he would have stayed in the motel!

Believer...they probably started out in single file, but with all their reckless driving, sliding every which way..

OldPlumber...lol..

Dan...because some just can't stand it if they aren't bitching about the politics..

@ Believer, So you must be a LIB since you're on here wanting everyone to hear your BS. It's All about "me" hear "me" roar. Pretty obvious to me. You know, maybe some of the people where just trying to get home and got caught out in it.

I agree, bluepanther, some folks think this has something to do with politics (even politics has nothing to do with "anything")...which goes to show you that "Dan" the apple does not fall far from the tree ! Ha ! ROLL TIDE !!!! Good luck Bama in the upcoming game against LSU. From an 'ole Tuscaloosa res., now in the northern Rockies of Montana. Merry Christmas !!!

Believer,

I have to agree with you on the single file comment as that was the first thing I thought when looking at the photo and reading the first sentence. On the other hand I have driven in conditions far worse than that and have come out unscathed for over 15 years now, in a rear wheel drive sports car. An old 86 nissan 300zx. If you are smart about it then you won't have any problems. Not sure why driving in winter conditions makes people nit wits as it's kind of unavoidable in most places in the country during winter.

And in typical "repug" fashion, you have to blame it on liberals - what does any of this story have to do with politics? However, since you "went there", in my experience, it's usually the hard-ass types (conservatives) who are the ones who think they can navigate any road conditions. We "libs" prefer the warmth and comfort of our million dollar homes (well, my my case, my $750 a month rented house).

WTF does this have to do with political orientation? More likely it has to do with the intelligence of drivers in their SUVs who think because they have 4-wheel drive they can drive faster than conditions allow. I live in Maine, and I see it all the time. Drive down any highway during a snowstorm, and you'll see dozens of SUVs off the road, stuck in snow drifts and smashed up against trees because some idiot thought they could drive 65 miles an hour in the snow. Trust me, stupidity isn't confined to one political persuasion, it's epidemic in this country, on both sides of the aisle.

Believer, that picture is on I-25 coming into Santa Fe, not I-40, and most of those people are likely commuters coming into work for the day. I know, because I live in Santa Fe. The weather was bad yesterday, yes, but not the worst I've seen and most things here operated as usual -- people have to get to work. Both liberals and conservatives. Santa Fe is at 7000+ feet altitude, and snow is more common here than in Minnesota (I know, because I've lived there too), so most here know how to drive in it.

Believer --

Where do you see two lanes in the picture? I see one lane and a service road. Just like a rightwinger -- have no idea what you're looking at.

Don you had better get your eyes checked. The cars are traveling two abreast that make it two lanes stupid.

lol....

Where I live, if you hid inside from the snow, you'd be stuck indoors for 4 months in some cases. Just drive for conditions, which is always slow, no matter what ride you got. We so rarely have fatal accidents due to the snow itself.

Oh, to Believer, you have absolutely no idea why someone would be out in that weather.. even emergency services people have to commute. But.. you're point was reduced to BS when you through politics in where it didn't fit.

Leave it to a right winger to turn this into a political issue to make his political statement. LOL. And since you went there, I think it's the conservative philosophy that is all about Me, Me, Me, while liberals/democrats are concerned with society as a whole and helping each other out.

Doc...I believe that was intended towards me? I hate to say this, but I hate football...lol...but I am learning something about it since everyone down here worships it...my sis and a good friend are both Bama fans...

I, however, love th Cardinals...World Series Winners!!!

How on earth could you use a story about people dying in a blizzard to make a political statement about 'Libs"? Man, some people are just full of hate!

Believer: I-40 doesn't go through Santa Fe. I-25 (as the caption accurately states) does go through Santa Fe. Next time you want to go to such lengths to criticize others, I would urge you to get your facts straight.

Also, it's not the libs who are "me first." It's by and large the 1 percenters. And idiots like you.

Some Knee Jerk CONSERVATIVES CANNOT READ...!!
..and I quote from the photo caption..." Vehicles on I-25 approach Santa Fe, N.M., in a single file as snow accumulates Monday."
So WHOM is the STUPID, ILLITERATE , nit-wit who don't have the brain of a turnip ..?

When you CANNOT read the SIMPLE words on a page...you ought to be STRIPPED of your right to vote !
Knee Jerkin conservatives who point out "in ERROR" the supposed ERRORS of LIBERALS are nothing more than DISPOSABLE TOOLS of of the RICH .

Fids, that should be Who, not Whom, and Doesn't, not Don't. Be sure to turn in your voter card tonight on your way home from work...

Dont know the highways there but its sure not single file. Sometimes I wonder if msnbc is intentionally this stupid just to get a rise out of people.

Believer--pretty unbelievable, I would say. You can spot us Liberals from an image. I think it's the other way around. Conservatism means to keep doing it the same way--and expect different results, (a shared characteristic with insanity). You have to include the words "typical Libs" in most of your posts and, at the same time--a cry for civility.

Mr Fids..take a freakin pill..

To all the other political whiners...STFU. Please get off the political garbage for now...this has nothing to do with the story...

Dano, he is looking for another job. But in the current economy, he can't afford to quit the one he has while he's looking. A lot of employers won't even look at your resume if you've been unemployed for more than a couple of months. "Go find another job" is MUCH easier said than done.

Cheese.. it's like the boy who cries wolf.. do you have any idea how many times people in New Orleans have been told to evacuate only for nothing to happen... We get that all the time in the NE here... storms of the century, decade, week... Our news stations stayed on for 24hrs during Irene, which was basically alot of rain.. and those of use who live near areas that flood moved out days before it started.. Irene ended up being a rain storm for the Philadelphia area with wind.

Its the doom and gloom media that make people feel they can accomplish things... when it's "the end of the world reporting" why not go out! Or if you hear it over and over and over 24/7 and nothing comes of it.. you end up not trusting those who are suppose to help.

Lyndanne, you just justified the reason NOAA and others broadcast so much: "Our news stations stayed on for 24hrs during Irene, which was basically alot of rain.. and those of us who live near areas that flood moved out days before it started" -- Do you think if NOAA or the National Weather Service hadn't been screaming "this storm is bad news" that anyone would have evacuated at all? Not so much. Most would have been caught after it was too late, just as the water crept up over the roads in and out, you know, right before it washed out the houses. Be thankful that NOAA broadcasts a large area to get as many people out of potential harm's way as possible. Irene could have been another Katrina, gaining power and making a sudden turn at the last possible second and been just as (if not more) deadly. Guaranteed if it had been, everyone would be singing praises instead of whining about something good.

You have to understand that the experts from NOAA and the like only have the facts they understand to be reliable to go on. They gather data from these storms. There is a chance they will lose power and be nothing once they hit land - as you can tell with Katrina, others GAIN power before slamming into the coast. It's not exact, but nothing in this date and age is. If they see something on the radar that looks scary, they will tell you to watch yourselves. Better safe than sorry so no lives are lost, that is their goal, and look how ignorant people treat their advice. Do you want to risk it, or definitely live to see tomorrow?

That being said, come on New Mexico. A little snow and ice is nothing to those big trucks you all drive. Kick it into 4, go slow, and you'll be fine. 10 inches of snow in a few hours is a normal snow for Ohio. If you can't handle the weather, even the oddball storm like this, then DON'T GO OUT IN IT AND RISK OTHER LIVES AS WELL. The prison bus in CO I can understand, I mean a bus is a bus, you add ice and it doesn't mix well but it's not like the buses are 4x4 trucks now is it? Most of the vehicles in the stills on this article are trucks/SUVs that are more than likely 4WD. If you can't handle it, don't drive in it.

Cheesehead: I guess your memory has faded, but MANY of the people in the poorer areas of New Orleans were too poor to have a car and had NO way to get out of harms way. (Public transportation? Yeah, right.) And nowhere to go. (If you can't afford a car, it's not likely you can afford several days in a hotel, if you could even find one with a vacancy.) That's why they WALKED or waded to shelter after the storm hit -- or climbed on their roofs when that wasn't possible. Had nothing to do with ignoring the warnings.

(I hope your name doesn't imply you're from WI -- one of my favorite places, and I always thought the folks there were more compassionate and understanding than that.)

@ Lyndanne

I understand the statement about the boy who cried wolf.

But, there is a flip side to that parable. If you choose not to fire the boy and to finally ignore the warnings only to be eaten, it is your fault as well.

Warnings are given for a reason. Even following warnings doesnt guarantee life. So it stands to reason, not following them increases the danger.

if we followed all the warnings about what we are advised to do and advised not to do, we would all be hiding under our beds with helmets and seatbelts on...no-- we wouldn't be here because our moms wouldn't have had unprotected sex with our dads. All those government @!$%#s and talking heads give warnings to cover their own asses and to get us to queue up and vote for a big brave politician who is going to "protect us" like George W Bush or Dick Cheney hiding in their undisclosed underground bunkers like queen bees.

But of course NoAA and the national weather service are part of the government and therefor not to be trusted.

Especially since any travel advisories are thinly veiled attempts to take away your freedom, as part of the war on Christmas.

Never said it wasn't their fault. :) Only that I wish that they would leave the warnings as breakins by NOAA. We had a nice 2ft storm here the other yr.. and our local station was on all day telling us how terrible it was, sliding and not moving.. etc etc etc... around 10am after I had shoveled my car out, I went to work which on a good day is an 1 1/2hr drive... the weather channel was saying it was over and being cleaned up... I admit my little street wasn't simple but also not impossible.. the highways crystal clear... All I'm saying is my local stations where doom and gloom when there was nothing to be so end of the world about.

Very rarely do I rely on our local media. I can determine cause and effect. Even though Irene wasn't as bad as predicted, I still left when NOAA was giving facts not hype... so many times my streets have been flooded.. live and learn just wasn't to be that time.

I think the problem is more with the media dweebs than NOAA. The media talks about how dangerous the storm is then shows some dorky reporter standing in it. Well everybody knows those guys are wimps therefore the storm must not be THAT bad.

cheesehead-2125785, Dare I say Wisconsin where we know a winter storm? You make a strong and valid point for all those who say that the government is sticking it's nose into too much of our private business. I am one of them.

Katrina hit, Max Mayfield warned people of its potential deadly danger and gave them days to get-the-hell out. No wonder they are telling 400 lb people what to eat and not eat, and 379 pound children to lay off the snacks. When folks don't have the brains to " come in out of the cold or rain" perhaps they really do need to be told how and what to wear, what to eat, what to read, when to sleep, to feed their pets, how you really do save on your electric bill if you turn off lights, and on and on.

Stupid and a danger to others. Should I pull up the cost of their stupidity to the tax-payer?

@ Jodi, clearly you've never been to New Mexico. While 10 inches of snow in one storm may be normal for Ohio, it's not normal out here. And we don't all drive big trucks. I myself have a sports car, so I stay home the handful of days it snows in town. As you can see in the story's picture, we also don't have a lot of trees out here, which allows the wind to whip across the roads hampering visibility and creating ice. Something that even our big 4WD trucks have issue with. The other part of the problem this time of year is people traveling through NM who are unaware of the ruggedness of the landscape and the unique conditions that arise during our storms. So please don't blast us for making a big deal out of snow.

Dear Longing and All the Others Who Feel Qualified to Judge Road Conditions in NMexico: Longing is correct.

I'm not so worried about driving here in Santa Fe, but the REMAINDER of you yokels scare me to death, even when we DON'T have 10" of snow with ice underneath.

But you all keep on driving like you're the only ones on the planet and that you can dodge bullets and you can be sure I'll stay off the roads.......the parking lots off Cerrillos and Zafrano were full of you driving 30 MPH with kids walking around and you wonder why you get hit??????

I don't agree... 10" of snow is really not alot where I live/travel.

Lyn...Glenn has a point...I am from Illinois, so I know how to drive in the snow...but since moving down here to Alabama, it amazes me how they all panic when we get hit with just an inch (I have my fingers crossed we get some this year!), yet still drive like idiots. It seems a lot don't understand how speed, a slippery road, and a big object (sometimes no oblect is needed) in front of you can be a bad thing when put together.

I agree since I moved from IN to TX these people are lost. When it comes to snow here it's funny. They close things down here before it even comes.

You should really read the article before commenting. The pilot crashed in eastern
texas. They did not crash in a blizzard. Though, I'll admit, the article is a bit misleading. However, if you check the weather in eastern Texas at the time they crashed, you'll see it was in the 50's with heavy rain. The rain and thunderstorms lasted about 3 hours in places between Waco and Texarkana so it was a decent line of storms. Still, no blizzard.

I recently moved from WV to San Antonio TX, and it hasn't snowed here, obviously, but when it rains you can count on a lot of accidents. It's like as soon as ANY precipitation falls all hell breaks loose and these people don't know what to do. I get so frustrated, that sometimes I don't want to drive in the rain for fear that someone will hit me and cause a huge accident. People should really have to take a "dangerous conditions" part of their driving test, just to prove that they have the skills needed to drive in not so good conditions.

bytor...lol...YES...it's entertaining, isn't it? At least traffic isn't so bad then, but if I'm craving a Pepsi and have to go get one, I'm out of luck.

Nom...you're correct...it was raining heavily, the article said, but no snow. Unfortunately, it also stated the pilot was to take a certain route and he/she went in the opposite direction.

Either way, what a waste of life.

Could you idiots stop giving your play by play of "Where I lived, this snow was nothing....blah blah blah" Well, go back to where you USED to live!! Just because you have a vehicle that cranks up and moves when you press the gas pedal does not mean you are qualified as an "expert" inclement weather driver. I have no idea why bobble-headed people even bring up things as ridiculous as that. Weather can be good or bad. Yes, you can start your car or truck and drive in it. But, a lot of people stay home because they started their Brains, which apparently a lot of you don't, and decided to avoid the risk by thinking "Hmmm, I am a good snow driver and have done this before, but what about the other people out today that aren't? What if they run into me?" "I think I will stay in until the storm passes. Its just for a day or so".

Smart thinking at its finest.

My answer would be know your limits... I know I can drive in snow, been doing in for 30yrs :) I also know that I have a very hard time getting through those darn circles in NJ so I avoid them LOL My first winter driving my father took me to a lot for hours and had me slam on my brakes, turn the wheel hard (doughnut) and regain control... we did it over and over again until it was second nature... I'm not saying I'm perfect but I do know my driving skills and what I feel comfortable with and what I don't (HATE Tunnels)

@ blue, I didn't mean funny as in haha. Last year they shut the schools down the next day after there was suppose too be snow and it was perfectly dry. We had a 1/2 in of snow once and the whole city shut down. I know these southerns CAN'T drive in rain let alone snow. And yes I feel sorry for the families of anyone who had love ones die in this weather. My condolences go out to them. I am not a cold hearted person.

Ok star...we get it...now go take your nap.

Going 30 sliding on ice hits at what 60? And yes you can die hitting someone going 30mph.

You are right, Roger, and most of these morons have no emergency supplies, no first aid kits, or extra blankets in their cars. We always were taught to carry such things in our cars and Jeeps, even if it was to help someone else. Where do these idiots comes from ? They should reap the consequences of their own actions, is what I often think...of course, there are a very few who do have legitimate reason for traveling...but most should just stay home and get cozy. A day or two won't hurt you for some down time...and most could probably use it to read, get closer to the family, help a neighbor, or educate themselves! Merry Christmas.

Hellooooo Roger! yes, you can die at 30 MPH, though it is less likely than at faster speeds. You can even die at 15 MPH if you hit your head right. Stranger things have happened.

I'm sure Roger knows that one can die in a 30 mile perhour collision. His point was that going slower is safer and much less likely to result in death or serious injury. He is right that it is unfathomable as to why people do not slow down in the snow. Seriously, I have never had any issues ever driving in inclement weather because I am careful. In my 94 Toyota Camry I drive past rednecks in ditches with their F250 4x4's and Job Creators with their all-wheel-drive Escalades in a snow bank. The only thing to be careful of is TOTAL IMPASSABILITY (which can also be avoided in a simple fashion: don't drive where your vehicle cannot handle, which can mean everywhere if the weather is really that bad) in which case the driver should be prepared with precautions that the good doctor two posts above me mentions.

Doc - based on the super markets the day before a storm.. it seems at least here that noone can last a couple of days at home LOL

Bread, eggs and milk are the 1st to go. I always wondered are they making french toast.

So you pass Job creators with your job destoyer foreign car?

LOL byfor... I always make sure we have chips, dip, icecream and the like. We have bread and milk all the time.. if I'm stuck inside, me and my kids are going to enjoy... till we go out to build snow forts and walk to the sledding hills!!! I think first to go should be hot chocolate :)

They
went up in the plane in Atlanta and were flying to Waco. They were nowhere near
the snow. They hit a line of thunderstorms in eastern Texas. It was an
accident. The title and pictures of this article are misleading. It is part of
the same storm system, but it wasn't a plane crash in the blizzard as the
reporter seems to want everyone to believe.

Kat, you nailed it. Being from WI this kind of storm happens often. The schools will shut down or let out early. However the greed of SOME employers is too much to let their employees follow suit. When the NWS communicates on television and radio that the State Patrol advises staying off roadways unless absolute emergency and SOME employers takes a day of vacation for your absence & gives demerit points toward your attendance record, that is totally wrong. I wonder how long before a death will cause a lawsuit because of SOME employers stupidity??

Other than that we have had a mild winter thus far and I can't wait for some snow!!!

If I had a loved one that was FORCED to go to work during a Blizzard and was serious injured, I would make sure that company was SUED into oblivion!!!

Starfox:

I would make sure that company was SUED into oblivion!!!

Good luck with that in Texas.

The other 6 were car accidents caused by the blizzard, so technically, it would be 11 deaths. Only if you consider the plane crash a part of the storm system.

All the more reason to stay off the roads and not prove the "Stupidity" factor.

When it snows in places like Seattle, the town shuts down for a reason. People who are not used to driving in icy conditions should not be out driving unless it is absolutely necessary.

I have to be honest though, I wonder how many people die per day in NM on the highway. Around here, it averages a few people per week, and I am in Montana where the population is pretty sparse. This figure is winter or summer, good or bad weather. So in tightly packed populations like around Albuquerque, are 6 highway deaths in a day very uncommon? The reason I point this out is because this article is nothing but hype. a plane crashes because it flew into a bad thunderstorm. Simple case of pilot error, not the "storm's fault". A few people died on the interstate. Tragic and I offer sincere condolences to the families, but I wouldn't say it was because of the deadly storm, it was because people drove in icy conditions and did not take the precautions necessary to be safe. Those very same road conditions can be found around here sometimes as much as 5 months out of the year, yet when people die due to icy roads, it doesn't get national attention.

So 6 people died on the roads in accidents.. how many didn't die? How many travelled the same roads yesterday and this morning and made it to their destination safely? 10,000? 100,000? Still pretty good odds, considering this "DEADLY STORM!!!"

And your roads are up and down and curvy. Beautiful part of the country but definitely a place to not get on the roads if you don't have to. Too many long drop offs. Have a Merry Christmas....wish I was there!

Dr..good luck...cozy up with someone if you can, or just let the cat sit in your lap while you watch cable (or read by candlelight?). They have no salt here in Alabama, either...sure do miss that road salt...

I agree with dave...I live in North Dakota & during the winter months when roads get icy sadly people think they can still drive 70-100 mph on roads that are actually 55-65 mph & they still try to pass 3-4 cars at a time....granted most are north dakotans, but I live in the part of ND that is in the middle of an oil boom & that means lots of out of state drivers who dont know how to drive in those kinds of conditions, mainly semi-drivers(water/gravel trucks) so since the oil boom started here our accident/death rate has went up specially during the winter months because people feel the need to drive on icy roads lyk its summer out. Altho right now the snow we had melted so far....we had one day last week or the week before where our roads got icy & my co-worker told me that coming from where she does in a span of maybe a mile or two there was a minimum of about 5 cars in the ditch all but 2 had out of state plates, now they could have avoided that had they gone only 45 or slower if they needed..tho i understand that people in the oil business cant always "take their time" it still isnt risk putting their lives in danger when they dont know how to drive those conditions, besides when you take the risk of going out on the road when its icy/low visability you put others in danger too...needless to say most of us north dakotans are use to driving in icy conditions, I would still rather stay at home when its at its worse, altho here it could be icy for days.

my point being that during our winter months here we have alot of accidents the result in death sometimes during storms, but it's never national news. I'm also positive that there are a few other states that experience blizzards/storms too that result in accidents/death, but those dont make national news either, so why should this be any different, when the plane crash for one wasn't the result of a blizzard. Regardless I send my condolences to the families of those who were involved.

LOL pack the plane full....and the air traffic controller told the pilot to fly away from the storm...does the pilot listen no, flies into the storm.

No It is just FORD drivers in the ditch, the GM truck drivers go by laughing....BTW some 4 wheels have positraction in the back

If you can read I said most 4-wheel drives. I am very aware of a Detroit locker centersection. I have buit more than you have drove.

BTW la1 if you knew anything about trucks you would know that chevy you drive has 12 bolt type c-clip axles which are notorious for breaking which causes the axle to slide right out of the housing. Unlike a Ford which has an axle that has 4 bolts holding it in place. Like all the good chevy's at the drag strip run a 9in ford axle or a Dana 60.

and if you have ever tried to turn a 4x4 truck (in 4 wheel drive) on dry streets, you would know that they are locked and will not spin differentially, meaning that front to rear they only move at the same rate when in a straight line, which is what causes 4x4's turning to lose control, while an "all wheel drive" where there is differentials all the way around can maintain good traction in a turn, and still be able to accellerate with all 4 wheels gripping even in icy conditions.

a "true" 4 wheel drive is HORRIBLE at speeds over 25 mph and in any condition where you have to turn. It is better than rear wheel drive, especially in a truck, but still not very good.

Plus, a heavier truck is going to take way more length to stop on an icy road than a light car or suv. AND, those big, wide tires that the enthusiasts put on their 4x4's are great in mud, but awful on ice as it spreads the weight out and removes any hope of traction. Turning in a 6000lb truck on ice is not the same as turning in a 3300lb car or 4000lb suv. Physics sort of dominates here. ABS brakes help..

It is irrelevant if one or two wheels will slip on accelleration when going 60mph though.. or even 40 mph. Your best bet for traction is for all 4 wheels to NOT be moving faster or slower than the road is passing under you, so 2 wheel or 4 wheel drive is irrelevant, although 4 wheel drive usually is more dangerous once moving. The one advantage to "true 4 wheel drive" is when starting from a dead stop, 4 tires will turn even if one or two don't have traction. Oh, and none of the modern 4x4 trucks have traction control, so an error on the driver's part is never corrected.

I drove 4x4 trucks for 10 years in Montana winters, both in the city and on the highway. Now I drive a small crossover SUV with automatic all wheel drive. I can turn sharp circles on dry pavement without the hubs locking and hitching, I can accellerate through a turn on ice and not lose traction, and so far I have not even noticed if the icy streets are good or bad for traction because it drives identically as when dry. Stopping is the same in any case, if there is ice, it takes longer to stop and is very dangerous. With ABS, I still have some control even if I am on wet ice and braking hard.. not much but better than being a large mass retaining the laws of motion.

Yes, I too see the big 4x4 trucks in the ditches or up on someone's lawn in the winter, mostly because they CAN accelerate faster than a 2 wheel drive car or truck, yet they can't stop any quicker.

ok boys...I have my second Colorado...and although I don't have all that neato stuff on it (wanted a 4-wheel drive but there's the money thing), I KNOW how to drive...so I have only been stuck once when I was in Illinois, and THAT was because we just got 6 inches and I tried to back out of my driveway and got stuck in the street. Managed to get it back on the driveway so the plows wouldn't kill it (all this for work) and found out I didn't have to go in after all.

I love my truck, yet not dumb enough to try and show off while I pass someone who is having a hard time of it in the snow. Anyone that passes someone like that because they can deserves some ditch time...

Be safe, guys!!

We were delivering and hanging fiber optic communications lines in the mountains West of Pueblo yesterday. We thought we could accomplish mission and be clear of the storm before it hit, but we didn't. We knew what we were in for and loaded out for it, just in case. Full tanks of diesel gave us well over 500 miles of range and we only needed 250 of it tops. We loaded out with chains and emergency provisions as well.

On the way down the mountain on hwy 50 we came upon a rollover accident. It was within 10 miles of Canon City, so the emergency crews were on it pretty quicky. From what I gathered, there were two dead. After waiting in the road for nearly an hour, we were allowed to pass.

The highway toward Pueblo was no walk in the park either. Usually, we have a heavy 4 wheeler loaded in the bed -we use it to pull cables and strands long distances. It would have kept the rear wheels weighted.. but, of course, we didn't have it on this trip. I did my best to simply follow the disappearing tracks of the vehicles before us. Sometimes, when the road disappeared altogether, I had to run on a combination of visual and tracking with the Garmin on hi rez.

We made it back safely. But I wouldn't have even tried it with lesser equipment or inclimate weather driving experience. Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do. But chance favors the prepared. We did it with an F350 King Ranch dually in 2 wheel. Stupid? No. Risky? Maybe. I thanked God that we made it safely and didn't have to lend aid to any stranded inroute.. which I would have, if required.

Point is: Know your equipment and the limitations of your skill and NEVER exceed the capabilities of either. ..and leave your ego at home.

no I just know a good off road vehicle when I see one. Most of the time I drive a one ton dually. But if I don't need that truck I drive our spare car yes which is my kid's old school car. You got a problem with that? Let me tell you something about AMERICAN CARS,they are not American. Built in mexico with impoted parts!

I suppose your one of those cool guys that drives a camaro to work in the snow Mr. I hate attorney's.(until you need one)

Let me just say that I grew up in the hills of WV, and almost everyone drove subarus. They are an excellent vehicle when driving in the snow! I've seen ALL types of cars in ditches in the winter, but I will say, I never saw many subarus. By the wording and grammar of your post, maybe you should have been a Speech Communication major, it could have helped your intelligence a little.

packing - you do realize that a "good off road vehicle" is usually the worst thing ON a road, right? Yeah, you can get started from an icy intersection with a "good off road" vehicle better than a little 2 wheel drive, but then you have to figure out how to stay on that road through the turns, hills, and of course, stop lights. After driving both, I will take a light duty suv with traction control, differentials, and excellent winter handling. Driving down a deer run in the forest, over fallen trees and through mud bogs is a different story, but that isn't exactly the road now is it?

dear grammar polise,

i beleive u get his mesage.

That one is for the spelling police, as there are no grammar mistakes in your post. Yes, there is a difference between spelling and grammar.

He's right, attorney hater...I found out parts of my Colorado are made in Mexico...said so right on the sticker..

Until the current one!

ya! Whos to Blame NOW? WHALE S--T is ,right? to doc above

Oh boy here it comes...

The President did it!..

NOW the stupidity comes out...

We just know the truely insane had to put in their two-cents sooner or later.

The President is conspiring with Mr Frost and the Deceptacons to bring about Snowmageddon in 2011. LOL

doc-1618686

The U.S. Weather Service unde Dubya had a major cut in budget due to His WAR in IRAQ! That is why the predictions and analysis of weather fronts has suffered from it!

Put the damned blame where it belongs on cuts in services that saved lives and reduced suffering. Dubya was undoubtedly the worst President in OUR HISTORY!



I couldn't agree with you more !

You are seriously going to blame Bush because people don't know what to do in bad weather all by themselves?

Really?

Bush was and probably still is an idiot. However, I do not believe he played a part in this.

Not it didn't doc, you're making that up, and I ought to know. Short term forcasts are as accurate as they have ever been.

Worst presidents in history? Harding, Obama, Grant and Carter, in that order.

Absolute worst: Buchanan/Bush 43(tie). Next to worst, Pierce. Then Andrew Johnson and Harding, in no particular order.

But why so negative? Talk about the best instead - Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, FDR, Madison.

It wouldn't be much of a bar fight,a good sharp elbow across the forehead and someone would be crying for his mama!

lol @ packin

bummer