There will be no attack on retreating US troops and no rear guard action is necessary.

The American government has agreed to pay billions to the Iraq's insurgents not to attack the retreating troops.

Peace with Honor, again.

'mission accomplishment' by george bush!

FatCatGets$700Bil - The American government has agreed to pay billions to the Iraq's insurgents not to attack the retreating troops.

Shows how smart you are NOT.

Those Iraqis that did not get any money from the US will attack.

Those Iraqis (Arabs, Sunnis, Arabic) that were disinfranchised by the US giving the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields to the NON Iraqis, the Kurdistanis (Indo Europeans, Shiites, Kurdish Form of Iranian (Farsi)), those Iraqis (Arabs, Sunnis, Arabic) will attack. The Kurdistanis have been the Armed Allies of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran since the Iran Iraq Wars.

Those Iraqis that were disinfranchised by the US giving the Southern Iraqis Oil Fields to the NON Iraqis, the Shiites formerly from Iran as Illegal Aliens that fled the Massive Unemployment to Iraq thru Basra after the Fall of the Shah of Iran, those Iraqis (Arabs, Sunnis, Arabic) will attack. The Shiites are still loyal Citizens of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, just like the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US are still Loyal Citizens of Mexico, South and Central American Nations, Eastern European Nations, Russian Federation, etc..

That is how screwed up the US Politicians got Iraq by not listening to us (involved with Iraq since the Iran Iraq Wars, including living with the Locals.).

4.5 trillion, 9.1 unemployment, no leadership, polarized our country.... tell me what did he do to make us US OF Ambition better since he took office ME EAMONN-99189? Ps.. dont blame Bush, it is just an excuse. Same analogy - you lost one wheel and you fine the best machanic to fix. Guess what?, you found he has lost 3 more wheels. His reason is the other machanics did not put on the screws of the wheels properly. In short, get rid of this idiot president before it get even worst!

The Iraqi military is still gonna be there to fight them off, and I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA or special forces remain in the country to help them out, seeing as the average Iraqi soldier would probably shoot his own foot off. So tell me, what would you have done? Withdrew the troops secretly so that one day the insurgents woke up and realized the country was empty and ready for the taking?

Where is our president when the congress is having problem with budgeting.... BRAZIL and the lastest ASIA. Clinton is 100 times better then our current one. Obama is my way or high way attitude. He does not care about our country like Clinton did. I will vote for Hillary or any other democrate or Repbulican.. but not this president with ZERO accomplishment for this great nation.

For those that have family members return home I am grateful.

As for those like me, I have a flag given to me the day my son was laid to rest.

The pain and loss continues.

To those that have never been to Arlington Cemetery and seen the price that has been paid I would humbly ask that you go.

Though our goal of removing a brutal dictator and helping free Iraqis from his power may have been admirable, sadly we overlooked the fact that the people of Iraq actually had in Saddam exactly the type of leader that was and is in keeping with the character of the majority of Iraq's population.

Rulers reflect the majority, consensus perception of reality of the people they rule and really are nothing more than the face of the bodies and minds of their people.

Thus it should not have surprised us that once freed of Saddam's vicious rule the innate tendency and desire to slice and dice each other that had for decades - if not centuries - been festering the in hearts of this tribe or that based on this or that real or imagined transgression reaching back through time to who knows when, that they would take this unexpected "gift of freedom" to begin the bloodletting they had been desiring to unleash on each other for so long.

Unlike the people of Libya, who actually cared enough about their freedom to begin an uprising and put their lives on the line and whom ultimately only needed our air support to finish the job, we made the fatal mistake of doing all the hard work for the Iraqis. When you give people something that costs them nothing it does not stimulate them to embrace hard work or the one who gave them the free ride; it makes them feel "entitled" to more of the same. This is true whether you are taling about freeing a nation of cowards or giving money to lazy people on welfare pretending they can't find jobs.

Iraq was given a tremendous opportunity; its people were freed of a monsterous dictator yet their reaction? Sit back and squabble, kill each other and blame us for not being able to control the situation that was and is the result of their inherently, vicious characters. Go figure.

I guess this is what was meant in the bible when it says: "Don't throw your pearls before swine."

Our military men and women are as good as it gets - too bad those directing them both past and present seem to have so little respect for where we send them or how we withdraw them.

Gogobill: Remember George Bush getting a shoe thrown at his head? Happened on 12/14/08....WHEN HE WAS HOLDING A PRESS CONFERENCE ANNOUNCING THIS EXACT TROOP WITHDRAWAL!!!!!!

Feel free to watch it on Youtube, unless you can't stand letting facts get in the way of your opinions.

Welcome home, troops!

As for the Iraqis, please blow yourselves up. Eat ##11$$.

gogobill777 O... what is there to fear..... thanks to our president with his political motivated big mouth annoucing the time table to put out. It serves the enemies well.... what a dumb president we have!

Are you slow or something? You don't think they can see us pulling out? It's not like rocket science and it also takes awhile to get all those troupes and gear out of there. So wake up bobobill777, even if he said nothing they would know we where leaving and have plenty of time to do something.

Are things better now? Was that even the plan?

Kudos to the kids that gave up their lives either short term or permenantly to try to make the world a better place.

Shame on the chicken-hawk 'leaders' that were so eager to send someone else to war.

Enough I guess you forgot how we got there in the first place what pres. did that ? Just thank our boys for their good work and shut-up already.

I just get frustrated reading people's arguments who are conveniently ignoring facts that don't support what they want to believe. You could completely ignore every aspect of how the war was handled, if it should have happened, on and on.....but Republicans attacking Obama for doing exactly what Bush publicly announced the United States would do as a part of their agreement with the Iraqi Government is flat out retarded. The moment Obama said anything about it, cable news networks had no shortage of Republican Congressional leaders babbling on with the same BS about how dumb it was to tell them when we were leaving. Funny they didn't mention that 3 years ago?!?!?!?!?!

As I vet I thank all of the troops and their families for their sacrifice. And to all who have lost members of their families my heart goes out to you. To the people who started this war I hope hell welcomes you with what you deserve. All you have done is kill off Iran's best opponent and make Iraq's take over by Iran more assured.

Iraq is "completely different; when we first came through in '03, it was a pretty messed-up place."

In an attempt to show the world how successful the US invasion was, and how safe it is today, the Republicans will be televising their next debate 'Live from Baghdad.'

Stoops2,

That was brilliant.

gogobill - go stand in the corner with the other ideologoues - no one wants to hear your unsupported opinions.

I'll be thrilled when the has-beens, never-will-bes, internet heroes, never-been-theres and armchair colonels fade with that dusty orange ball.

@RockyRoad; condolences to you and yours.... I've been to our local military cemetery several times as it's right by one of our state parks. I've had my kids with me, and as their grandfather is a Korean War Vet, I've walked with them there and talked about war and loss with them.

They're young now, and younger then, and asked 'is going to war worth it if this is what can happen?'. Not the easiest question to answer.......

Just thank our boys for their good work and shut-up already.

And girls.

Obama followed Bush's plan on the withdrawal. He could have knee jerked and done it faster he could have knee jerked and done it slower. On his intelligence to stick with the plan put forward by George W. Bush he should be commended.

Thank you President Obama for sticking with the plan and thank you President Bush for sticking with the mission when everyone was telling you to cut your losses and run.

But above all, to the troops, both US and members of the coalition, thank you for your service. The world is a better place today because of what you have done. Hold your heads up and march home with honor!

Mission Accomplished...A Job Well Done...And Yes Most Importantly...Welcome Home!

Remember that when we are filling out Employment Applications.

President Obama has already stated his intent to Reduction In Force (RIF) the US Military of 27,000 US Military Personnel. As well as the xxx,xxx US Civilians that are no longer needed to support the RIF'ed 27,000 US Military Personnel, equals x27,xxx soon to be Unemployed.

David i see you on here alot and you seem like a smart fellow,instead of filling out an application take your (RETIREMENT) and start a business. or just retire and let another military person that has been in only 4 years have that job that you will be takeing?

larryincalif96007 - David i see you on here alot and you seem like a smart fellow,instead of filling out an application take your (RETIREMENT) and start a business. or just retire and let another military person that has been in only 4 years have that job that you will be takeing?

I am speaking on behalf of my men and women and the rest of the US Military that will be thrown on Unemployment. As after the First Involuntary Recall to Active Duty I lost my Second Career, Teaching At Inner City Schools. After going back on Retirement, I started my Third Career, Retail Sales, as no one else would hire me since they did not know if or when I might be involuntarily Recalled to Active Duty; which did happen again, so before that happened (Recalled to Active Duty), using previous Research (the thing I mentioned about US Laws being eliminated) I invested money to make enough Capital to start my own Business. My Business (currently two States) makes enough money so that I can afford to buy my men and women (the family I never had) Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years Dinners, so that they do not end up with MREs or canned Ham (some id!ot with no knowledge of Islamic Nations), canned green beans, and powdered potatoes ever since the President Obama April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts (US Congress shifted US Military "Sustainment" (Food) and Operational (Training, Maintenance, etc.) Appropriations to their "Pet" Military Project/Programs to maintain US Civilian Jobs in their States). Unlike the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces or the thousands of US Civilians here, we cannot just abandon the locals to go to a secure FOB, COB, USAF Air Base, or Green Zone to get a Turkey Dinner, as it took us years of consecutive tours to gain their trust (trust us with their and their families lives), this trust can be wiped out in just a day by putting ourselves first. Flying a Turkey Dinner in by MH-60 or MH-47 (Helicopter) is not an option, as we will become surrounded, swarmed, overrun and killed along with the villagers that we live with (we tried that before). The nearest NATO, ISAF, US Military Bases are hours of hiking (almost half a day) in the mountains going to the south, we usually use pack mules and pack horses to pick up supplies from the nearest US Military FOB since there are very few roads (usually filled with IEDs or they are waiting to ambush us if we use the roads) up here in the Pamir Mountains. Unlike the Conventional Warfare Forces we do not leave during the near Arctic Winters here (2009 we had two avalanches, 2010 one avalanche), we have been doing year round US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare (including technical mountain climbing, Arctic/Winter Warfare). A little while ago we were pulled away from the Pakistanis Border, so it was not us that called in the recent NATO Airstrikes at Pakistan (we know better from being here so long. Know exactly where Pakistan begins and Afghanistan ends (Border as claimed by Pakistan). My Pakistanis Military Officer counterpart and I had a very long talk before, he gave me a shemagh made of Chinese silk; I gave him something (cannot mention here), later I arranged (paid) for all of my men and women (my sometimes dysfunctional family) to get shemagh like mine, the cheap cotton shemagh do not work or last very long).

Most of the US Military to remain competitive for US Military Promotions have both US Civilian Degrees (CEL, Civilian Education Level), US Military Educations (MEL, Military Education Level), Certifications, Qualifications, and Real World experience, that most of the US Civilians do not have. So when the President Obama RIF of the US Military occurs, many US Civilians will be displaced by the RIF'ed US Military, just like before after Vietnam, First Gulf War, etc.. Years ago, as a Commander, US Military Conventional Warfare, and later Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF), I always pushed my men and women to get College Degrees. As it is embarrassing for the US Military (Personnel Administrators) for US Military Personnel to have a higher CEL than their MEL, having a higher CEL forces the Commanders and Personnel Administrators to send those with high CELs to more US Military Schools to increase their MELs. Many of the US Military Schools also award US Civilian Degrees (with some additional work). Basically, the US Military Generation Y (experience, additional qualifications and certifications, discipline, etc.) make the US Civilian Generation Y non competitive for Employment as the US Military Generation Y is also more compatible to their future Bosses of Generation X.

By the way as far as me filling out an application, it is because I am a by training and experience a "Workaholic" (aka "Work Ethic", "Earned", "Personal Responsibility") as most of my men and women are. Quite a few of us lived in our vehicles while working nights and going to College in the days (sleeping between classes) we made the "Ramen Diet" infamous/famous by cooking the "Ramen" in our vehicles cigarette lighter coffee pot, worked on family farms since childhood, hunted and lived in the US Mountains, etc.. With things like more than 4 hours of sleep a day, holidays, more than two meals a day, etc. being a luxury.

disgUSted-2940129 - I believe that was the tactic that Hitler used for the struggling German economy of the '20's and '30's. Brilliant, you mindless fascist!

Instead of the brainless name calling disprove the facts. Ask yourself why Germany (Hitler), Italy (Mussolini), Japan (Hirohito) emerged from the Global Great Depression (people literally starving to death) years before the US.

And why President FDR did the same things as Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito to get the US out of the Great Depression as: Nationalizing US Businesses and US Industry (start of the current US Military Defense Industrial Complex), Suspending all US Labor Union Activities (believed and later proven "Italian Organized Crime" sympathetic to Mussolini during the US Labor Union Strikes to stop or slow down the US Military Liberations of Sicily and Italy), President FDR's Sales of War Materials made by his US Military Defense Industrial Complex to England from 1939 to 1941 to get the US out of the Great Depression 1939. Institution of his Universal Health Care for All US Citizens (to put more spending money in the pockets of US Citizens and not the Insurance Corporations).

disgUSted-2940129, which end do you and those that voted for your post wear your hat.

GET OFF YOUR LAZY ARSE AND DO THE RESEARCH, DISPROVE MY RESEARCHED FACTS WITH YOUR OWN RESEARCHED FACTS. Go post your emotive non factual opinions on your own Personal Blog and not here on Newsvine "Get Smarter Here" to discuss the Facts.

David, thanks for your service, good luck to you and others returning. I am 62 and spent 40 yrs in the Insurance industry and the only job I can find today is in Life and Financial Services game - i.e., no money tell you sell something. The economy sucks and anyone with any money has it invested as they see fit already. It's not like the late 90's when people were becoming millionaires by the hour and there was plenty of targets. It is a vicious game out there. If at your age - I would suggest retooling your skill set in the software engineering field that will control the world for the future.

I feel for our soldiers over there.

If only the criminal Neo-Cons, lead by Sith Cheney and Bush-Lite had not illegally invaded that country!

@ LemansOwner,

Thank You for a short but perfect statement expressing our gratitude to our troops and a safe return.

No digressing into personal opinions about the if's and why's that so many comments brought to this forum. The ignorance and insulting remarks never cease to amaze me . The 'Art of Debating" has all but vanished from every comment section about ANY article written. Probaly because the ones prone to responding have strong views without doing their homework . Their vile insults at different opinions is an example of the increase of intolerance that has taken hold in the U.S. in the past decade. I never "cover any group with the same blanket" and I'll always accept someone's right to their own opinions but enough is enough . Don't trash my opinions because they differ from "yours' When insults become the rebutal in a discussion you have just lost any credibility in said discussion.

Here comes a blunt honest statement that will make the "people" I'm talking about prove my point if they choose to respond. I am sick of the Tea Party, The Birthers, the Republicans so frightened by them that their actions are more about not offending them than doing things to help change our situation here. What's worse is the new up and coming Republicans are Tea Party "members". I'm also sick of everybody trashing President Oboma . Since day one the Republicans vowed to block anything he tries to pass to guarantee a one term presidency at the expense of our country. His mistake was to try to work across tha aisle instead of pushing his ideas through when he had the majority of the House and Senate. I could go on and on with the things he has done well but it would be lost with the target audience.

Well now America is fed up with the Republicans who have self destructed and can't put a viable candidate up against President Obama. Their best option is Romney but the bias of his being a Mormon will hurt him just as Pres. Obama being black , although vehemently denied will hinder his progress. Plus the fact he is "for and against" every issue will cost him if he is the eventual candidate. I feel President Obama can't lose and will get his second term with his new attitude about not taking any more BS and complete his goals in an agressive manner. ThankYou again for your post LemansOwner and Thank You to all the aforementioned uninformed who imploded the Republican "Tea" Party, paving the way for "Our" President to be re-elected . To those who disagree with me. I don't care. Think of me when he is a two term President and you are all 20 shades of angry. Thanks for your time.

@ LemansOwner,

Thank You for a short but perfect statement expressing our gratitude to our troops and a safe return.

No digressing into personal opinions about the if's and why's that so many comments brought to this forum. The ignorance and insulting remarks never cease to amaze me . The 'Art of Debating" has all but vanished from every comment section about ANY article written. Probaly because the ones prone to responding have strong views without doing their homework . Their vile insults at different opinions is an example of the increase of intolerance that has taken hold in the U.S. in the past decade. I never "cover any group with the same blanket" and I'll always accept someone's right to their own opinions but enough is enough . Don't trash my opinions because they differ from "yours' When insults become the rebutal in a discussion you have just lost any credibility in said discussion.

Here comes a blunt honest statement that will make the "people" I'm talking about prove my point if they choose to respond. I am sick of the Tea Party, The Birthers, the Republicans so frightened by them that their actions are more about not offending them than doing things to help change our situation here. What's worse is the new up and coming Republicans are Tea Party "members". I'm also sick of everybody trashing President Oboma . Since day one the Republicans vowed to block anything he tries to pass to guarantee a one term presidency at the expense of our country. His mistake was to try to work across tha aisle instead of pushing his ideas through when he had the majority of the House and Senate. I could go on and on with the things he has done well but it would be lost with the target audience.

Well now America is fed up with the Republicans who have self destructed and can't put a viable candidate up against President Obama. Their best option is Romney but the bias of his being a Mormon will hurt him just as Pres. Obama being black , although vehemently denied will hinder his progress. Plus the fact he is "for and against" every issue will cost him if he is the eventual candidate. I feel President Obama can't lose and will get his second term with his new attitude about not taking any more BS and complete his goals in an agressive manner. ThankYou again for your post LemansOwner and Thank You to all the aforementioned uninformed who imploded the Republican "Tea" Party, paving the way for "Our" President to be re-elected . To those who disagree with me. I don't care. Think of me when he is a two term President and you are all 20 shades of angry. Thanks for your time.

I have spoken to just a few that served in Iraq. I would love to hear everybody's assessment that have served there because after all they have walked the walk. I am only reading about it from media that has their own agenda.

This article is trying to paint a "happier" picture because the media has a very liberal bias and wants to pump up the guy in the WH. So even though Obama never supported this war, and instead called Afghanistan the "good" war, it is still on his watch how things go so that is why the positive spin. If a republican was in office now, this article would say something much different which is sad to see such manipulation of our media that are suppose to instead be the watchdog of truth.

I believe that the changes in Iraq spawned the first Arab spring in Iran that unfortunately got snuffed out because the west stood by and said nothing afraid of Iran instead of taking the lead. Instead we pick and choose who we will stand behind and send a mixed message. I think the first elections in Iraq with the purple fingers was symbolic and one very small step forward for the ME if they choose to risk blood and treasure to fight for their own freedom. The ball is in their court. Of course are we hearing even now from the "silent" majority? I don't think so.

I hope all that should come home from Iraq make it out safely and that their homecoming is a happy one. I hope with all they have done to serve this country that employers will consider them as future employees. We owe them.

The so called military industrial complex employs over 1 million skilled workers. I wouldn't be so dismissive unless you have the trillions of dollars to find these people employment.

There is nothing wrong about having one of the worlds most advanced militarys, especially since the U.S. is a Super Republic in a increasingly smaller world. The armed forces by law can't attack indiscriminately, unlike the 3rd Richt.

@Nate - You made some very valid points, there is nothing wrong with having one of the world's most advanced military...but there is something wrong with abusing that power as well. Not trolling, I just think this war was an indiscriminate attack. Our efforts should have been directed primarily at Bin Laden, shouldn't have taken a decade for his capture and trillions of US dollars.

During the second world war, both Roosevelt and Churchill and we might assume Stalin also did not want to assassinate Hitler. It was deemed and rightly so that Hitler was a bungler extraordinaire when it came to leading his armies. He directly caused the loss of over two million German troops in 1944-45. Bin Laden was of the same ilk as Hitler and I believe that keeping him alive during the Bush administration was viewed as a positive maneuver in keeping the military-industrial-intelligence agencies running at full blast so long as he was alive. There were many times Bin Laden could have been captured or killed under Bush but he disdained from approving the go ahead until Bin Laden had time to change locations. The Republicans viewed his death as counterproductive to the war machine created by the Iraqi war. Even today despite overwhelming evidence that Pakistan has double crossed us on numerous occassions, the Republican dominated Congress refuses to cut off aid to Pakistan. Read the news, Pakistan says it cannot enter the Taliban controlled areas, we attack a believed Taliban outpost on Pakistani information and they now say that we killed their troops. What were their troops doing in what they said was an off limits area of combat for them. Drone strikes and military actions are not carried out indiscriminantly at the whim of a field commander. They are fed information by the Pakistan intelligence agency. Remember the high priority target in which 32 Seals were killed, this high priority target was given to us by Pakistan which knew the route the Seals would be taking to get to it. Ambush pure and simple. This was as the Pakistani troops killed, payback for killing Bin Laden right in their backyard. Congress keeps saying we need Pakistan because they buy a lot of arms and armaments with the money we supply them in aid, which keeps the military-industrial complex humming with nine hundred dollar toilet seats.

I am confused somewhat by what people are saying here. The support staff required by the military can be as high as 3-1 or 4-1 for each soldier in the field. Many of these tasks have equivalents in the private sector. I would think such skills would transfer when Iraq and Afghanistan wind down and the bulk of the troops come home. Whether the economy is in any state to absorb a half million entrants is another question. But, that does not suggest to me that continuing to send money down a rabbit hole is good policy.

The main focus of the article was about whether the over $1 TRILLION spent on the two wars, the 4500+ deaths incurred (not to mention tens of thousands of combat injuries) and the more than 100,000 Iraqi deaths (not to mention millions in refugees) were worth what will eventually come of these two wars. I noticed that the article deliberately glossed over these larger casualties (sort of like the way that policymakers glossed over the deaths of the native population in Vietnam and Laos). Curiously, why don't the media DIRECTLY ask the IRAQIs what they think instead getting hearsay?

IMHO, the full-on land war was not the best approach. If the goal was to remove Saddam Hussein, there would have been less expensive and less engrossing ways to do that. No one remembers this anymore (inconvenient I guess) but right after the cruise missiles started taking out the major government facilities in Baghdad in 2003, Hussein actually VOLUNTEERED to leave. The Bush Administration did not take that offer seriously. One wonders what would have happened if they had and the entire family was exiled followed by a shorter, less bloody transition from his other henchmen.

Given the events of the Arab Spring (especially given what happened in Libya), you have to wonder if the government of Iraq would have fallen anyway if given time. When you look at what we found after arriving on the ground, you have to question whether the CIA made the same poor assessments that they did during the Cold War about the Soviets. We only learned later (after the Berlin Wall fell) exactly how bankrupt the Soviets were and how underpaid their troops were and how poorly maintained their equipment was. The fierce face of the Soviets was a mask to hide that reality.

Inconvenient historical truths. Add another one to the pile.

For over ten years, America waged wars in Iraq, Afghan, Yemen, and Pakistan, wasting trillions of dollars and bankrupting the US economy.

Only the military industrial complex and war lovers profitted from the wars. Everyones else either worked, fought, died, and paid taxes for nothing.

FatCatGets$700Bil - For over ten years, America waged wars in Iraq, Afghan, Yemen, and Pakistan, wasting trillions of dollars and bankrupting the US economy.

Try again. What bankrupted the US and Caused the $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", etc. was the removal of the US Laws in 1999 and 2000 that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression. The same things that occurred during the 1929-1939 Great Depression are what are happening now, same Causes, same Effects (Symptoms), equals same Results (the US is in a Depression, NOT a Recession). The only thing missing right now is the Great Depression's 25% Unemployment (US Currently at 23% (All Categories) and rising).

FatCatGets$700Bil - Only the military industrial complex and war lovers profitted from the wars. Everyones else either worked, fought, died, and paid taxes for nothing.

Wrong again the US Military Defense Industrial Complex as created by President FDR got the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression in 1939 before US entry into World War II by selling War Materials to England. This same US Military Defense Industrial Complex is currently keeping the US out of a Great Depression (since the US Laws (above) were removed, 1999 and 2000).

The US Military Defense Industrial Complex is NOT FACELESS, as the US Military employs almost a hundred million US Civilians. Due to US Law (US Code) "US Military must buy only US Products, Goods, and Services", the US Military is keeping in Business at the US, US Civilian Jobs Manufacturing, US Civilian Jobs Raw Materials Processing, US Civilian Jobs Textiles, US Civilian Jobs Food Processing and US Farming, etc. as the US Civilian Businesses flee the 35% Business Taxes one of the Highest in the World (plus added on are the Local, City, State Business Taxes to make up the lost Revenues (Sales Taxes, Property Taxes (foreclosures), etc. from individual US Citizens).

Because the US Military must buy from US Businesses, paying a "Fair and Living Wage", the US Military pays $300 for a non sparking, non magnetic hammer to work on Bombs, Projectiles, Munitions, High Explosives, etc. instead of being able to buy better products from the Chinese Military or Russian Military, as they get every Chinese Yuan or Russian Ruble's worth, since they still take people out and execute them for Contract Defaults, Fraud, "Crimes against the Citizens", etc.. It would take the US Military spending many times more just to do the same as the Chinese or Russians by paying off (Out of Court Settlements) US Businesses that will tie up the Contracts for Years in US Courts.

The same is why the USAF has to spend so much to Buy a Toilet Seat, designed to keep the sh!t and piss in the sh!tter even if the USAF Aircraft has to go inverted (upside down) to avoid being shot down.

Basically, if you want to chop the US Defense Budget by 50%, eliminate the almost hundred million overpaid expensive US Civilians and replace them with below minimum wage US Military Personnel.

@ david-475776. Oh yes of course, the military-industrial complex is gooood, because it uses taxpayer-borrowed debt-creating blood money killing lots of people and creates such good jobs too. It's a great business, the war business...a pork barrel welfare program that spends trillions of dollars on death. If you have a conscience at all, get that through your head: the military-industrial complex has one main endproduct: DEATH.

KarlStevens-2597445,

You have limited eyesight. Just like the Germans had when the German Teenagers, Students, Academics demanded the Closures of US Military Installations at Germany. So when this occurred, these German Teenagers, Students, and Academics lost their Life Style (did not have to work) as their parents became Unemployed, so they no longer were given their monetary allowances. Later on the Political Party that negotiated the US Military Installation closures at Germany were voted out of Office.

Like I said about the US Military Defense Industrial Complex keeping the US Businesses in Business at the US. What part of that don't you comprehend. How about this tell your US Congressional Representatives that you demand that the US Military Installlations at your State close down, so that you are not a hypocrite; then listen very carefully what your Congressional Representative says, especially about how many US Civilians will become Unemployed. As well as the cascade effect when all these US Civilians on Unemployment have no spending money for Car Dealerships, Real Estate, Fast Food, Theaters (Entertainment), Retail, etc. (resulting in those in these jobs also becoming Unemployed (no longer needed)). As US Civilian "Consumerism" cannot replace the amounts generated by the US Military.

As far as USDs put into the US Military versus how much USDs is generated by US Military Foreign Military Sales to other Nations, while paying US Military Personnel below minimum wage, try again do the Research (how much USDs FMS brings back to the US). As one of the REAL US Businesses "Made In the US", as even GM, Ford, Chrysler as Assembled at Toluca Mexico of Chinese Parts made at Machau China and Shanghai China to be "Economically Viable" (as testified to US Congress to get the loans.). If you do not believe that then get off lazy arse and go read the made in labels at the GM, Ford, Chrysler Dealership Parts Department.

You sound just like the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER served in the US Military. Only 1/2 of 1% of US Citizens are currently serving in the US Military. This is why you know NOTHING, about the US Military's Humanitarian Assistance Mission, like we have been doing here at Afghanistan for years of consecutive tours. Nor are you aware that both Iraq and Afghanistan are UN Missions, Nation Building. You also sound like those in the movies that stand there gawking while your friends around you are getting chopped to pieces (all mouth and no action).

Maybe you are one of the US Civilian Generation Y (Entitlement Babies) as described here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387817n&tag=mncol;lst;1

The US Military Generation Y are not the same as the US Civilian Generation Y, as they have experienced and learned personal responsibility, timeliness, discipline, etc. and are more compatiable to Generation X, their future bosses.

Also you have the same mentality of those after World War I, World War II, Korean Conflict, Vietnam War, Cold War, etc.. Cut the US Military so that when the next War occurs the peacetime US Military is equipped with obsolete military equipment. examples: Prior to Pearl Harbor, US Military with Battlerams (not Battleships) built from 1911 to 1917 (no Anti Aircraft Batteries, except for Anti Aircraft Training Battleram, BB-35, USS Texas), World War I Helmets, Bolt Action Rifles, etc.. After World War II, again US Military Chopped, resulting in many of Task Force Smith killed since they did not have enough anti tank ammunition to use against the North Korean Tanks.

Beware the hired shills that come on the blogs to counter anyone who opposes the wars and the useless killing while American kids go hungry. The bloated military is set to be brought down to half of the money they waste and they are fighting like crazy to avoid it - also, watch as the military come up with some trumped up alerts that they hope will take us into another war. We've heard it all before - let's not listen to them again - just look at the huge, new buildings in Richmond, VA - they are the defense contractors who will profit and they aren't going to take any attempts at peace.

irene-2033073,

Sure irene-2033073, how about doing the reseach as to why the US children are going hungry.

Like I said before how about throwing all the US Civilians employed by the US Contractors on Unemployment. Do you even know how many US Civilian Jobs that is. And how about taking some personal responsibility, as, if you cannot afford to have children DON'T. If you cannot afford to take care of your children while working then DON'T have any children. All of that is Personal Responsibility.

THE ONLY PEOPLE BENEFITING FROM THE WARS ARE THE US CIVILIANS (JOBS). And that does also mean those that work in Fast Food, Real Estate, Manufacturing, Retail, Car Dealerships, Restaurants, Textiles, Transportation (Sea Air Land), Food Processing, Maintenance (Aircraft, Ships, Weapons, Vehicles, Facilities, etc.), Food Service, Electronics, Research and Development, Communications (including Internet and Satellites), etc. as we in the US Military (24/7/365) are paid below minimum wage and our (Not YOUR) lives are at risk.

I don't see you demanding that the US Military be Unionized so that we can earn a "Fair and Living Wage". The word for you is Hypocrite. As well as selfish, as based on your posts, you are of the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military (Candidate Obama's "US Military is a Civic Duty" and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement".).

Do you even KNOW who hates these Wars the most, us NOT you, as we have to do the sh!t that the Politicians that you hired demand us to do, so YOUR (as most of us do not vote, and remain apolitical) uninformed Politicians screw things up and do not care since they will only be around for 4 or 8 years and their screw up is no longer their problem while we in the US Military for over 20 years end up fixing their screwups (at the cost of our lives). You are just as guilty as those that YOU hired, especially if you hired them based on Popularity instead of substance. And do not even attempt to blame us for not voting or being apolitical, as if we vote the absentee ballots are NOT anonymous and become Public Record, with the US Politicians using this to end our US Military Careers when there is a Regime Change; just like we US Citizens of the US Military do not have Freedom of Speech and many US Constitutional Rights (and like I said before do not even say "Volunteered" as most of my men and women were Involuntarily Recalled to Active Duty), as things that prove you know NOTHING, as the 92% that have NEVER Served in the US Military.

When Joint Forces Command (a small US Military Installation) was closed under President Bush's US Law 2005 Base Realignment and Closures (BRAC) in 2010, 5,000 US Civilian Jobs were lost. Previously, when President Clinton closed 14 US Military Installations at the US, the surrounding local US Civilian Towns and Cities suffered near Great Depression Era Economies; resulting in the US Contractors to flee to other US Military Installations taking US Civilian Jobs out of those areas, then a flight of workers occurred leaving those areas to where the US Contractors went. Resulting in a loss of local, city, State Revenues and increases in Taxes for the remaining residents. The Unemployment became a problem for the Local, City, and State Governments (not included in the Federal Statistics or responsibility).

If this were a game show, irene-2033073, I would tell you to BUY A CLUE.

Like I stated before, so that you do not become a hypocrite, YOU demand that all the US Military Installations in your State Close.

You got it Teapartyauther. follow the money, follow the money.
Our guys fight to prolong the war not win it. If we fought to win they would be short. We have the men and equipment to win. Just our politicians want to bilk it to the last drop. How much did Halliburton make during the Iraq war. Their bottom line is more important than the men we lost. FOLLOW THE MONEYRoss Parot's war cry that put Clinton in office.

david: We can't keep a large military and bases all over the world just to keep people employed. Taxpayers fund all military activities. It's not private enterprise. That's not to say we shouldn't invest in our military or abandon servicemembers once they've served their purpose, but to keep spending at current levels just to continue employment only adds to our impossible national debt. There needs to be a drawdown, particularly once we start coming back from Afghanistan. I think we can do without a great many overseas bases as well, just preposition supplies and equipment.

@david-475776: You just don't get it, and I am convinced by your rantings that you have no conscience. Jobs, jobs, jobs. Hitler too provided jobs. All kinds of DEATH industries and activities provide jobs. Invading and occupying small countries based on lies about WMD's provides jobs. Trillions of taxpayer dollars borrowed from China provides jobs. And the jobs are all immoral. Your entire argument sounds like someone who is scared to lose their military pork welfare money and justifies WAR and DEATH because it is a jobs program. I served in the military and what I saw was waste, fraud, born-again Christian hypocrite crusaders killing in the name of the Prince of Peace, corruption, sexual harassment of women soldiers, officers abusing enlisted, and death. Stop wasting your time typing and go out and do something for the world...something other than supporting death.

The history of the military industrial complex is mixed. The leading technology in the U.S. was often created by the military from the creation of jets and the space program to the use of computer chips to the invention of GPS to the precursors of the Internet and the creation of new materials. The civilian portion of the military (the subcontractors) traditionally hired some of the country's best engineers and software programmers to invent things that would eventually be used in the civilian sector.

But like every institution, it can become corrupted and wasteful as it becomes more successful. IMHO, the military subcontractors serve a real purpose but there is a lot of fat these days. Iraq and Afghanistan war spending aside (and the mysterious disappearance of $2 BILLION in CASH dispersed in Iraq), what have they done with the monies spent since 1996 (basically doubling the annual budget from $350B to over $750B)?

The U.S. has a lot of serious budget issues and there is no escaping that the wars need to be wound down and that military spending needs to be right-sized and re-rationalized. Simply employing people is not a good reason; the question that needs to be asked is whether they are being employed in ways that improves the future of the country.

The history of the military industrial complex is mixed. The leading technology in the U.S. was often created by the military from the creation of jets and the space program to the use of computer chips to the invention of GPS to the precursors of the Internet and the creation of new materials. The civilian portion of the military (the subcontractors) traditionally hired some of the country's best engineers and software programmers to invent things that would eventually be used in the civilian sector.

But like every institution, it can become corrupted and wasteful as it becomes more successful. IMHO, the military subcontractors serve a real purpose but there is a lot of fat these days. Iraq and Afghanistan war spending aside (and the mysterious disappearance of $2 BILLION in CASH dispersed in Iraq), what have they done with the monies spent since 1996 (basically doubling the annual budget from $350B to over $750B)?

The U.S. has a lot of serious budget issues and there is no escaping that the wars need to be wound down and that military spending needs to be right-sized and re-rationalized. Simply employing people is not a good reason; the question that needs to be asked is whether they are being employed in ways that improves the future of the country.

Well David, I'll say it out loud - you read a lot, write more than any busy person has time for, and I doubt you've done half the things you claim.

It aint over. Yet.

US ground troops and air support are still in Iraq, Afghan, Yemen, and Pakistan. And some of them are still getting killed and wounded.

Don't believe the government propaganda issued for the upcoming presidential election and public consumption.

anthebeatgoeson - The Bush war is over.

Nice try at Bush Bashing.

The Iraq War started with the 1998 US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act", justification Weapons of Mass Destruction listed in Section 2 "Findings" of 1998 H.R.4655. After the lesser means of US Law 1998 H.R.4655 failed to Overthrow President Hussein, US Congress used the Final Option to Overthrown President Hussein, the US Military, with the Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution (justification taken from US Law 1998 H.R.4655). It is NOT the Job of the US President to decide which US Laws with US Congressional Appropriations to Enforce.

And we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces) were involved directly with 1998 H.R.4655, by hiring, training, equipping, etc. hundreds of thousands of Shiites as assassins and insurgents to Overthrow President Hussein in accordance with US Law H.R.4655. Because the Shiites are not exactly the smartest as Illegal Aliens from Iran, they got captured, some even turned each other in for rewards; so they were executed as Traitors. After this failed, we were on the ground doing Target Damage Assessments (but not allowed to do Targetting) during the Cruise Missile and Airstrikes of Operation Desert Fox. Operation Desert Fox also failed as President Clinton refused to target Iraqis Government Locations, and only the urban poor areas of Baghdad were attacked. This incited the Islamic World, as you do not mess with the poor of Islam; the US is labelled the Great Satan by the Islamic World.

But I was told Obama started this war. That's what they on FOX news convince the right wing zombies who can't think for themselves or read/watch anything non biased (same goes for the left just not as flagrant)

If most of us are following and believing what the partys say about the other side we are just idiots who cannot find the truth if it bit us on the ass. I don't know how many of my right wing friends come up with some of the garbage they spew about the left. Most of it is so racist and absurd to make me wonder what kind of country we live in. 90% of emails I get are garbage and lies. And you know what they say garbage in, garbage out.

The Iraq War started with the 1998 US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act",

Your theory is that Bush wasn't pushing a war? Or that he was helplessly trampled by the Republican congress and their bloodlust for invading random countries on false premises? Nay, you're full of @!$%#.

Hunter Hutchins- Your theory is that Bush wasn't pushing a war? Or that he was helplessly trampled by the Republican congress and their bloodlust for invading random countries on false premises? Nay, you're full of @!$%#.

So you were at US Congress as a US Congressional US Military Liaison Officer, and ended up seeing and hearing everything that was happening then as well as doing coordinations with the US Congressional Staffers of the House and Senate, like I was. Theory, NOPE.

Now Hunter Hutchins is "full of @!$%#" with Partisan Political sound bites.

Get off your lazy arse and do the Research and use your Researched Facts to dispute my Researched or Firsthand Experienced Facts.

I previously posted on Newsvine (other Topic) about what happened at Washington D.C. (Dysfunctional Congress) prior to 9/11 2001. US loss of 2/3rd Daily Oil from Venezuela. US Strategic Oil Reserves (6 months, just like Japan before they invade China). US Congress denies President Bush's request for Oil Exploration at the ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Reserve). US Congress reappropriates funds to US Law 1998 H.R.4655 (And since you don't know based on your post, US Laws do not go away until they are Accomplished or Repealed); then many Demoncraps and Repugnants at US Congress tell Bush if he wants Oil go to Iraq and get it. During this time I started to reform my Teams to go to Iraq, and gave them a Warning Order; then the 9/11 2001 Attacks occurred and our Mission changed from Iraq to Afghanistan (post#7.1), after Afghanistan we were sent to Northern Iraq after the 2002 US Congressional Declaration of War With Iraq.

Most of the above are in the major Newspapers of that time, as little one paragraph articles. Most have not been scanned into computers yet, so go to a library and look up the Facts. I kept copies of the Newspapers, and those Newspaper Articles (since my arse was going to be involved).

the war in iraq that cost us thousands of lives, etc., started with the bush invasion. Trying to connect back to earlier legislation is silly. You can play the "connect the dots" game back in history forever if you want...how did saddam get in power..how was iraq created, blah blah blah.

the fact of the matter is that only bush was bold/brave/stupid/manipulated enough to order a full scale military invasion of iraq.

Why do you fools talk about lives lost? Every life is lost and destined to become oil or gas millions of years into the future. The real story here is that we secured the oil wells from a ruthless and oppressive dictator.

Billy Bob Houston

Oil Man (ret)

Johnny...

Yes...Obama started the war...he also planted the false reports about the "yellow cake uranium"...Obama was also an agent for Iraqi intelligence who provided him with his fake birth certificate...sound crazy...not if your "news" sources are Fox and Rush and the Internuts! :-))

BillyBob - You just stated the exact rational behind the big oil industry, "Why do you fools talk about lives lost? Every life is lost and destined to become oil or gas" they care nothing of the ppl. These lives that are lost could have been better served elsewhere than to just be buried before the age of 25. That's saying that these brave soldiers lives were taken in vein and not in honor...I almost pity that you for thinking that way, almost being the key word...

God bless our troops who have to scrape up the sh%t of the world and keep us safe.. I am pretty sure that they will not attack.. They want us to leave and it would be counterproductive to their agenda.. Most likely there will be a stretch of calm and then the assassination's of faction leaders will start..

It took them 3 years to incinerate all of Saddam's poison gas at that huge chemical weapons depot in the desert.. So much for the No WMD's found BS.. They also found a bunker that was hot with background radiation that the Bush Bashers and the media seems to have forgotten about.. I just hope that there is not a hidden bunker somewhere that has some nasty crap that will fall into the hands of some jihad towel head idiot and end up in a city near you via our porous southern border..

If you want to bitch about fighting for oil and yet live your wasteful lifestyle you are a hypocrite.. Americans can't seem to give up the performance for economy in their cars.. The majority could never see giving up the SUV or owning a 70hp car with 0 to 60mph at 12+ seconds..

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.

Less than 9 months more and most of my men, women and myself will be "Too Old" to be involuntarily Recalled to Active Duty again (and again and again). No more years of consecutive tours here (Afghanistan) and previously Iraq (also years of consecutive tours) living with the locals. Most of us have been involved with the Middle East, Africa, Asia, South and Central Americas since the 1980s.

It will be someone else's turn, like KarlStevens-2597445. As promised by Candidate Obama to end the repeated deployment of the 1/2 of 1% of US Citizens of the US Military, his solution, Selective Service (aka "Draft") and or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service, as "US Military is a Civic Duty" and "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement".

Hunter Hutchins- Your theory is that Bush wasn't pushing a war? Or that he was helplessly trampled by the Republican congress and their bloodlust for invading random countries on false premises? Nay, you're full of @!$%#.

So you were at US Congress as a US Congressional US Military Liaison Officer, and ended up seeing and hearing everything that was happening then as well as doing coordinations with the US Congressional Staffers of the House and Senate, like I was.

Now Hunter Hutchins is "full of @!$%#."

Get off your lazy arse and do the Research and use your Researched Facts to dispute my Researched or Firsthand Experienced Facts.

I previously posted on Newsvine (other Topic) about what happened at Washington D.C. (Dysfunctional Congress) prior to 9/11 2001. US loss of 2/3rd Daily Oil from Venezuela. US Strategic Oil Reserves (6 months). US Congress denies President Bush's request for Oil Exploration at the ANWR (Arctic National Wildlife Reserve). US Congress reappropriates funds to US Law 1998 H.R.4655 (And since you don't know based on your post, US Laws do not go away until they are Accomplished or Repealed); then many Demoncraps and Repugnants at US Congress tell Bush if he wants Oil go to Iraq and get it.

not unless you are prepared to 1) ignore the iraqi gov't and 2) keep troops there forever. Otherwise what happens in iraq is iraq's fault now.

The fact that "the cradle of civilization" would fall into chaos the moment we went in was a forgone conclusion. Alexander, Caesar, the Ottomans, the British Empire all saw their empires peak (and then die not long after) putting troops in this place.

The fact that you are just accepting that reality now is good. The fact that it took so long is sad. For everyone.

Yep.. Look at the trouble we have busting small 100 person cults here in the US.. Do you think we will ever stand a chance against a billion person cult called Islam.. They live by 2000 year old laws and rules that condone killing especially but not limited to us Christian infidels..

Jack Knowlton - Let's not forget that the only reason Bush invaded Iraq was to git rid of the perceived "nuclear threat" and "weapons of mass destruction".

Try again.

The Iraq War started with the 1998 US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act", justification Weapons of Mass Destruction listed in Section 2 "Findings" of 1998 H.R.4655. After the lesser means of US Law 1998 H.R.4655 failed to Overthrow President Hussein, US Congress used the Final Option to Overthrown President Hussein, the US Military, with the Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution (justification taken from US Law 1998 H.R.4655). It is NOT the Job of the US President to decide which US Laws with US Congressional Appropriations to Enforce.

US Law 1998 H.R.4655 (scroll down to Section 2 "Findings"):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1057063/posts

Who said this (Hint Bush was not the President):

Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world", and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.

What's the matter, Jack Knowlton, do you have a convenient loss of memory.

Jack Knowlton - Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Condi Rice, etc., will never be held accountable for their crimes.

Emotive uneducated opinion that belongs on Personal Blogs, not on Newsvine "Get Smarter Here" Forums to discuss Facts.

As in order for a crime to be committed they would have to have violated a US Law, which they did not; what they did was adhere to the US Laws, 1998 H.R. 4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act" and US Congress's Declaration of War With Iraq, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution. By not Enforcing these US Congressional Laws with US Congressional Appropriations, then they could be held responsible for not doing their sworn or affirmed Duty of their Oaths of Office.

The real crime is the US Citizens not knowing the truth and too lazy to do the Research, or actually not participating in the Events. And then believing the baloney written by non participants based on information from other non participants, usually written as being partisan political bullsh!t "Sound Bites".

As soon as the US Congress Declared War With Iraq, with US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations, we were redeployed from Afghanistan to Northern Iraq to live with the Kurdistanis to gain their trust, train them, organized them to fight the Iraqis Military before the 2003 US Military Liberation of Iraq. The Mission Goals, a. Kurdistanis Seize and Secure the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields., b. Make the Iraqis Military Command believe that the Main US Military Attack would come thru US Ally Turkey. To cause the Iraqis Military Command deploy their Main Iraqis Military Forces north of Baghdad (which they did)., c. Have the Iraqis Military deploy their Main Military Forces to a certain area so that the USAF could used Non Nuclear E-Bombs to destroy all Iraqis Electronics, especially the Iraqis Communications to prevent the Iraqis Military Command from redeploying their Main Iraqis Military Forces to the South, or to organize their Iraqis Military Forces into a cohesive defense at Southern Iraq., d. Destroy as much of the Main Iraqis Military Forces deployed North of Baghdad (we destroyed 6 Full Strength Iraqis Military Divisions of Armor (Tanks) and Mechanized Infantry with two companies of us and a couple of Kurdistanis "companies", while NOT killing as many Iraqis as possible, destroy their equipment, not kill them.). These are the reasons that the Main US Military Forces Liberating Iraq coming from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia met only piecemeal resistance from the Iraqis Military Forces. The reason for the later US Military deaths, was due to the fact that the majority of the US Military is Conventional Warfare (97%), and not capable (trained and experienced for at least 10.5 years of US Military Asymmetric Warfare (3%, average age 35, experience and maturity are mandatory), and additional years of Language training and experience), as after the Iraqis Military Conventional Warfare Forces were defeated, the War At Iraq turned into an Asymmetric War; Historically, Conventional Warfare automatically loses against Asymmetric Warfare.

We were specifically, sent to Iraq 2002 due to having been on the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars.

The same occurred just after the 9/11 2001 Attacks, we were specifically sent to Afghanistan (since we were also on the US Military Training Teams that trained the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, OBL was NOT trained by us, he was at Saudi Arabia living with his rich relatives forming the new Islamic Jihadist Organization, Al Quada) to: a. Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government that was providing Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden, Al Quada, and the Islamic Jihadist Training Camps., b. UN Mission of Nation Building, as Afghanistan was built up by the US from 1950s to 1979 (USSR 40th Army Occupation., c. Mission Added to Terminate Osama Bin Laden after President Bush amended the US No Assassination Policy, to allow Osama Bin Laden to be terminated.

I do agree with you David but the only thing that bothers me is knowing that Iran has been speeding up their making of nuclear capability all these years flying under the radar so to speak, I think the Taliban can be thanked for that because while we were looking for Osama Bin Laden a new form of evil was florishing and thriving....I don't think Sadam Hussein was a threat to us (to his own country yes) ...the Middle East is a lost cause and I feel sorry for anybody born into that world

That is what good leaders do. Make Lemonaide out of the lemons they have.

well said jack...keep it up.

well, since this isn't the same situation, your post is stupid. Iraq has a government in place, it is (relatively) peaceful (for a middle east country), saddam is gone, the gov't has asked us to leave.

any resemblance to vietnam is merely in your own head.

Vietnam is now one of the fastest growing economies in the world. If we had stayed, would that outcome have occurred?

I think you are confusing Vietnam with South Korea..

Once again the uninformed post non facts.

Read post#7.1. (same with those that voted for your post).

david - once again the partisan posts nonsense (freerepublic..lol).

who sent in the invasion? lol.

Once again the uninformed post non facts.

Read post#7.1. (same with those that voted for your post).

david - once again the partisan posts nonsense (freerepublic..lol).

who sent in the invasion? lol.

Once again the uninformed post non facts.

Read posts # 3.2, 3.4, 5.2, 7.1. (same with those that voted for your post). And especially post#6.1..

david - once again the partisan posts nonsense (freerepublic..lol).

who sent in the invasion? lol.

@David - the only reason that G.W.Bush declared a state of war upon Iraq is b/c his father wanted the job finished that he couldn't accomplish during the 'desert storm 80's era'. The entire Bush family is directly connected to high ranking saudi's, whom hold the keys to the 'black gold' that the bush families make profit from. That seems like a crime to me...'Send ppl to die so I can have a direct connection to the main money source' BS.

If you did serve as you say I would like to thank you for serving your/our country so valiantly (In no way is this to be taken as sarcasm). My grievance's are not with the our soldiers but with the politicians who so willingly throw them in the fire to tip-toe along the lines of death. And if this was meant for nation building, why were/are ppl making money from this? No one should stand to gain (monetarily) from death and war.

At this point, we could extract every barrel of oil out of Iraq and it would not have paid for what it cost up to this point or the future costs of rebuilding our military stockpile or paying for VA benefits.

If that was the real reason we went, it was a miserable failure. If it was not it leaves a lot of open questions about the judgment and egos of the people who made the decisions.

Larry-1274601

I think the point is, some people did get very rich ($$$$$) off of the war, and that is simply not right!

Actually we receive no oil from Iraq except for that to run equipment in Iraq and no minerals from Afghanistan. I think you are confusing us with China.

The war in Afghanistan was not based on a lie, the war in Iraq was more based on bad intel.

These global elites you talk of, have been around for far longer than one might think, but I would hardly use the term elite to describe them and we all seem to support them by buying what they are selling.

Wars are not a good thing but sometimes they are better than the alternative. What would been the consequences of no response to 911?

@JabbaTheElf

In other words, we were either corrupt or stupid. Which would you choose?

The whole point to capture Iraq was for it to be readily available to have oil pipelines run trough it with little to no recourse...

How can we not buy the products these elitist's sell when the whole system is monopolized in their favor? All the money from the goods and services we pay for ends up flowing back to the top. And yes I do know they have been around for many decades, trying to figure out the best way to manipulate capitalism so house odds are in their corner.

I do agree wars are not a good thing, but had we have gone ONLY on a 'kill on sight mission' to rid the planet of that psychopathic, tyrannical tumor known as Bin Laden and not fully occupy a country he had little to do with (keeping in mind this was about the 9-11 attacks, not Saddam's regime). That would have sent a pretty clear message to these nut job terrorist groups that 'if you come and attack us (no matter the extent of the attack, big or small) WE WILL IMMEDIATELY take swift, direct tactical measures to hunt you and your goon squad down and kill you...all'.

I know you will want to argue back that they wont get the message. But had we sent in the Black Op Seal team (kudos to them b.t.w, I would be honored to shake their hands) who killed that sandy bastard (that is not meant to be taken as a racial term) covertly and with minimal opposition immediately after the 9-11 attacks, I firmly believe the Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups wouldn't have gained 1/10th of the support they did from new followers after we invaded and declared a state of war in Iraq.

I think the problem is Obama abiding by Bush's incompetent decisions of three years ago.

we're abiding by the iraqi gov't decisison to ask us to leave.

The fact that you believe it is possible to change the culture clashes that lead back 10,000 years gives me pause.

Whether the troops leave today, tomorrow, next month, next year will not make even a splash in that long history. Empires always believe they are more powerful than they really are at their peak.

Right

Alas, no one understands this basic premise

Get down to your Marine Recruiter and sign up. Sorry, you cannot qualify mentally or physically.......What is a "Chicken Hawk" to do?

its not as if even as "small" a force of 20,000 soldiers (and tanks and ....) can just pack up and leave overnight. lol. maybe they think the starship enterprize could beam them out? :)