more like slugs in the streets...

Paul Knick, 44, a software engineer from Montclair, N.J., said as he marched through the financial district with other protesters on Thursday. "It seems like there's a concerted effort to stop the movement and I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen."

Here he comes to save the day !!!!

america needs more like him.

Freedom of speech is a fundamental right of every American. So is the the freedom that each one of us has do live our lives. Somewhere, somehow the lines have been blurred.

Freedom of speech does not mean you can scream, drown out, or get in the way of my fundamental right to exist. I have the right to appreciate the OWS, but they need to respect my rights too, and not impede them.

THEN you VOTE for him Sterling! OR you vote hom OUT! Which is coming real soon to a theater near you.

I would agree with you Independant if they focused on the real problem which is in Washington DC. Had the banks and Wall Street been allowed to fail rather than handed a government bailout, those fat cats would have been jobless and broke NOT continuing their greedy life style. Until the idiots (yes, that includes both sides in the House and Senate and idiot President) stop getting huge sums of money to keep these guys in business, it'll never end. This country needs term limits, no retirement for elected officials, reduce their benefits to what you or I would receive and hold them to the same laws we're accountable to, including insider trading and paying taxes.

Ok, but tell me one thing these protestors are doing that will stop all the above from happening?

I'm with you there, BentBrass, and I wish they would put their primary focus on Washington now. It's almost a chicken/egg situation: which beast gives life to the other? The relationship is so symbiotic at this point that it's hard to know whether to weld the axe or heat up the frying pan. Maybe both is the best answer.

Harbek...So go start your shooting... I guess if it's that bad I'll gladly take your first bullet. My great God what kind of generation have we raised up. I can take apart just about every thing you say here. This is how you message sounds to most people....WE need jobs so lets stick it to the corporations and banks and business. Off with their greedy heads. Death to the corporations. Yeah that will create investments and jobs and wealth for the wealthy. I think you may be a tool.

@ Debbie of course they have the right to voice their disdain. You are voicing your disdain. The problem is they don't have the right to disable the right of others from doing their business.

They also have to follow moral and ethical laws. They also have to follow the laws of the government. Hell if we didn't have to follow laws then I'd just double park in the street and go to work. Do they have the right to tow my car? Of course they do.

If you want to change the government by civil war I have pity for you.

Good point Spider... I should have point that point in my rant. That's another issue you don't see in the media, but you see every soundbite or video clip of the President blaming Republicans.

Debbie ...I am sure you mean well, but the truth is you really don't have much of a message if after 2 months of invading public and private property no one knows what it is you want. I do know they don't want to pay back their student loans and I am not down with that. I want them to pay the loans back. Just one area of disagreement I have. Assemble is not building a squatters town

Debbie, 15 trillion are you happy yet?

Annabelle:

Please turn on your cable station; the CC one is having complete coverage.

Next goal for the Protesters today--to block the Subways, and the Brooklyn Bridge. Now do you call this a Protest or Anarchy in the Streets?

They are "goading" the police by going over the line in Zucchotti Park--now there has been an altercation--more mobs galore; Herds following other Herds--they are Troublemakers, and know it. More arrests--people being dragged across the cement.

Please, President Obama address the Protests and their wants to the American People---they are looking for Leadership from our President; his words--they are craving this attention. It would calm things down.

Frustrated useless Americans need a Person who Leads this country to give them hope--

This Protest once again, is massive---send them home, so there will be no more deaths to others--

@ Mark ... Lol really?! Conspiracy Theorist Much?! I wish I got paid to blog! By the way give away your phone or computer. You aren't allowed to have these things right?

I love it though. People complaining about not having money, but they go out and spend money on fancy clothes, cars, tatoos, weed, booze, food without looking for sales or coupons.

I'd like to say we work hard to save money. Most of these children protesting don't know how to shop around. They buy things on debt without blinking an eye. They pay the full price without a second consideration. They go into college without really knowing what to do, then they spend their money on partying and club cover charges.

The blame should go to our parents who didn't realize the saying "Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child" is an accurate statement. We are born and raised with the ideas of entitlement and privledge when because our parents worked harder to provide for more than they had. Now when they are released into the world they are disabled and they want more and don't know how to pursue it.

The reality is TruePatriot is that the Tea Party Members have jobs or family obligations. The truth is too that the Tea Party movement was peaceful and clean. The truth also is that the Tea Party was national, but like I said previously did not get any Media Air Time.

Here-here Against Union Thievery. Can you say NRA.

thanks for reading my post...I read yours too.

Many good points taken...and you are right, civil war is not what is needed here..

but what they're doing has brought more attention to what is going on in Washington DC than anything else.......

if it had not been for the Vietnam Protesters the Vietnam war would have gone on much longer.....those protests were also inconvenient and messy...but I am so glad they took a hard stand against the war and helped to bring our men and women home.

You will have to bear with me as I struggle with the frustration of our times...bad government caused this and now government is just spinning its wheels...people have become what you see in reaction to joblessness, homelessness, fear, frustration and the prospect of a very dismal future....there comes a point when civilized man can take no more and must take a stand in defiance---and it happening all over the world right now, in fact we seem to be a bit late to the party.

So, yes, despite the mess of it and the somewhat incoherent messages I support these Americans as they struggle to hang on to and voice what is important to them............like the housing bubble, after 8 years of chaos, 2 wars, market implosion, housing implosion, jobs implosion and our ever rising debt this bubble of fear, frustration and hopelessness of the government doing anything about it had to pop.............................we are only human............

although at times it would seem that we are looked upon as batteries for the corporate money making machine....and for those who see the protesters as an annoying nuisance of negative energy...well...perhaps you are looking at those who have gotten out of the matrix.........

guess it is just a matter of taking the right pill.

TruePatriot:

It goes over the line, when people among a Protest are murdered. That is key.

Thee Protests have turned into "mob" mentality--with no message getting across.

Yes, we have Freedom of Speech--I would say, if the Government lets this out of control mass interrrupters take over the Nation and it's people, they should step in with a speech of "Calmness" addressed to them, by Pres. Obama.--not like Syria, Iran, Iraq, and others, who's people have been slaughtered in the masses without provoking others daily life..

To interfere with other American Citizens going about their business in a Free Country, is for these troublemakers to make it a Socialist State. We cannot have that--A Democracy.

It doesn't help them, nor does it help us--it is a roadblock from H----------

I did have decent feelings for the OWS folks. Now they are breaking the law, and the only people they are hurting, is the people who work for a living. Not a think they have done has effected Wall Street. Only the wage earners tring to get somewhere.

You want to protest against the enemy? Go yell at Obama, and congress. Repubs and Dems. The repubs and dems are your real enemy.

Can't you folks see the big picture. I speaking to everyone here. We are being played against each other. If the right and left is busy bickering, it distracts the middle. When everyone is busy, our politicians do what they want to unchecked. We have to start paying attention to THEM. There has always been opposing views of politics. This is to be expected. Instead of polarizing against each other, we need to unify and defeat the things in our government that do not serve everyone. We are the United States, not the Divided Opinions.

Harbek I agree with you partially. Too much taxes and fees. Taxing the rich, however, is not the answer. The government isn't there to provide you with life and liberty. Only to protect it. Success comes from a persons willingness to take the extra steps. To work hard, to take risks.

I believe property should be taxed once. Sales tax. That's it. I think like in Tennessee or rural areas if you want fire insurance you pay for it. If you don't then you take a risk. Children are the only ones who should receive free health care. Older folks should have health insurance that they pay from check deductions. But these deductions should be optional. Just like your 401k or your pension. These deductions should be optional. Social Security should be optional. If you don't pay into it, then you get nothing.

You should have to pay for your own electricity, gas, water, sewer, school tax, etc.

But you shouldn't have to pay extra because you have 2 bathrooms or if you want to make your house look nice.

The government shouldn't take over organizations. The government shouldn't bail out banks.

You do have to assume some personal responsibility in what you can afford and you have to pay off debt if you get into it. Variable rates are rediculous. No one should take out a mortgage with a variable rate especially over 30 years.

I had roughly $150,000 in school loan debt when I got out of college. Luckily my hard work has paid off and landed me with a good job. Trust me it took me about 5 months to find one. I'm still paying on my loans, but I pay more than the minimum. I have about $56,000 left. I don't own a house yet. I rent. It is a dump more or less, but that's what I can afford now. My car leaks oil and has some issues, but it runs. Patience and paying off my debt while holding a savings of approximately 10% of my salary will payoff. I hope to have a savings of 50% to 75% of my salary when I stabilize. I don't blame banks. I don't blame the rich. I want to stand on my own two feet alone without the help of the government. There will be things and there has been things that have knocked me back, but sacraficing nice things and lavish vacations is what I have done. I didn't have cable for a number of years and this last summer I finally determined that I could afford it.

Just take some personal responsibility and you will be fine. This country is setup that way.

it has been factually documented that during the civil rights movement (now wasn't that messy!) that the government planted people in the movement and the crowds to disrupt and encourage violence to discredit the protesters and allow the authorities an avenue to come in and start arresting with prejudice...

are you certain that is not what is taking place here...after all things have been very very peaceful until this week....the authorities have had enough and suddenly, boom, everything starts happening...

even after that young veteran was terribly injured the protesters stayed reasonably peaceful.........

all those interviewed have come across peaceful, frustrated, yes, but peaceful with no intent to do harm.

So it would behoove us to consider that among the throng there are those, whose purpose is not in support of OWS movement but whose intent it is to incite violence and disrupt the movement to cause its collapse...................rather like discrediting a witness, so on the stand, even though he tells the truth, he seems less credible.

I still support the protesters............round the world.

Masterbater, the tool is larger than you fathom.

I busted for 26 years making my way, cared for my family... only to face lay-offs every time.

More business has disappeared from this country... I've worked alongside many working people - we all love to work.

Problem today is.. you do not have a job. You have work you perform while the rest are forced into poverty - DAILY.

My neighborhoods were always filled.. never an empty home.. today, no less than five per city block with most all the stores closed.

OWS protesters caused this you say??? I sincerely say NOT!

Wake your dead brains up, research what has been going on in this country, and by whom and you will truly see the problems are large.

Become an import country completely.. you're jobs will become outsourced soon enough.

Slavery is supposed to be dead... all of you keep it alive.

Swallow what your government tells you, don't ever think for yourselves.... when the costs finally hit you... maybe THEN you will finally learn something useful.

I levitated electricity.. what have you done?

True Patriot

OWS don't protest against Obama and his administration because OWSDemocrat party is the grass root for the left wing that hijacked their party. Unions labors, socialist group , communist, Soros have a big agenda behind this group. Bigger government, more handout, more welfare, war against wealth, war against the succes, war against capitalism, increase the union base. This group will continue untill election day , if Obama is not elected better stay at home after the election because we are going back to the times of the Weather Underground and Bill Ayers

Wow,what a glorious movement! 700 hundred people , let me repeat that 700 people that's it !!! And this is worth reporting why? Poor Tamron Hall her moment in the sun has failed. Really police violently pushing protesters , of course i'm sure it wasn't after they had a liquid thrown in their face? Still want to compare idiot's to the Tea Party? Haven't heard from Nancy Pelosi in a while SHHHH!

Don't any of these Protesters go to School, have a family, or committments to others?

Who cares about them?---Drifters, Homeless who are riding the 'train" to get freebies, and paid by some Community Organizer Groups.

Is ACORN still in the mix? The Drifters need to go to their shelters now after 54 days and get some rest. It is rattling the nerves of normal Americans.

Frankly, the punch of the Original Message is gone.

It is now all about the Police Arrests--people being dragged and handcuffed. Looks very good on a resume.

Apparently, the Protest has not impacted the senses of Americans. Tantrums.

Troublemakers Gone Wild.

harbek

You still spout against the protestors?

Where will you be when gasoline rises to $28.00 a gallon?

Where will you be when food on shelves of the store go so high even $50.00 won't fill one single plastic bag?

You think your job is going to pull you through? The 1% have larger plans for all of this and you haven't even seen their beginning yet.

Once the 1% start.. you're going to wish to god you had been out helping protest to correct this situation and prevent the 1% from making all this even worse....

Fail to stand up and fight them now.. you face nothing more than living a slave forever to the International Bankers, Large Corporations, Wall Street, AND the Government.

You think your measely $30k to $50k per year matters to them when you vote?

THEY are listening to the $400k, to 4mil a year people.. not you - you are simply their working slaves !!!!!!!

If none of you wake up and realize what is coming soon.. you will wake up one day and wonder - WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED????

Your job, your home, even your very life is not yours or secure anymore as those in charge attempt to control all areas around the globe through government.

Chinese are forced labor... they make your products....... guess for which companys???

Do your own damn research, find out for your self.. then PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!!

harbek,

These Right Wingers do not have ANY FACTS.

They lament about being "inconvenienced."

What a ridiculous point of view.

What about the "inconvenience" and ruination experienced by the Americans who lost their jobs, pensions, retirement funds and homes - due to the thievery and fraudulent behaviors on Wall Street, by the Big Banks and in Corporate America?

It is amazing how these Reactionaries are focusing on the demonstrators.

Yet, not one word drips from their scornful mouths about the extreme criminality engaged in by the Wall Street Con Artists.

I agree, their pittance of $30,000 and $40,000 jobs will be wiped out - as the 1% continue to push forward with their "lets continue to loot America" plans.

When these myopic folks get clobbered by the 1% - they will deserve it.

Don't any of these Protesters go to School, have a family, or committments to others?

Who cares about them?---Drifters, Homeless who are riding the 'train" to get freebies, and paid by some Community Organizer Groups.

Is ACORN still in the mix? The Drifters need to go to their shelters now after 54 days and get some rest. It is rattling the nerves of normal Americans.

Frankly, the punch of the Original Message is gone.

It is now all about the Police Arrests--people being dragged and handcuffed. Looks very good on a resume.

Apparently, the Protest has not impacted the senses of Americans. Tantrums.

Troublemakers Gone Wild.

Is there truly Freedom of Speech on this Comment Board?

MSNBC, please restore my comments. There was nothing that went over the line re: the NCOH. It was just my opinions, like the others.

So disappointed in the way, comments are thrown away; Freedom of Expression.

Hey President Obama!.......where is that community organizer when he is needed? Please come home and address your troops. They are getting violent.

Your people need you to address them and calm them down. Perhaps you could at least send Nancy Pelosi, Steny Annoyer, Hairy Reid or Joe Biden?

Hi harbek, --- Answer this: WHERE HAVE ALL THE JOBS GONE?

In my paper “The Great American Nightmare” I am quoting seven famous CEOs who are certainly good men, but will these “few good men” ever do anything to help their country. At this time they haven’t even hinted at a remedy, but have all been preaching that the main reason for the collapse of our economy is the FATAL problem of a HUGE Foreign Trade Deficit. We can’t manufacture “trade goods” for the World anymore, simply because wages for workers and engineers are several times lower in other countries. “Outsourcing” will soon have "deindustrialized" our Nation. And there is no remedy for this if we are relying on the century’s old and outdated theory of Adam Smith, (“The Wealth of Nations” 1766), with its “Invisible hands”. His theory worked well for centuries and became the standard in business schools in the US. Ironically, it is just this theory which now causes the “deindustrialization” of our nation. The term “Invisible hands” refers to a method by which the “business community” itself initiates and controls economic growth by their own motives of “maximizing profits” and a “strong bottom-line”. (Some say it’s a euphemism for Greed and grabbing Power) It is a rare CEO or stockholder who has “job-creation” as part of his motives. “Wages” for jobs have always been just a necessary evil while making profits. Since in today’s Global economy wage differences between nations are substantial a US business, to be competitive, needs to “outsource” which then eliminates existing jobs and ends job creation. This has actually been extremely profitable for US-business, substantially increasing the number of millionaires, but made the “Labor Unions” powerless. Our Government has to step in now to replace the Union, but according to Adam Smith’ theory it can’t interfere at all; it is only to make capital availability for the (very visible) “greedy hands of business”. --- Adam Smith’ Economy is like cans of “Instant Fish” (just add water)

“CREATIVE” solutions and new kinds of “Skunk-Works” are needed to create COST/PERFORMANCE breakthroughs; innovations which use Prof. Christensen’s “Disruptive /Enabling” technologies to produce “Trade-goods” for the Global markets to pay back our dept. None of the present multi Billion dollar Keynesian spending programs have been targeted for this. Instead we are borrowing even more Billions just to generate temporary jobs in the non-trade-able sectors of the economy, such as work on roads and bridges etc, etc, which generate no trade-goods. In a healthy economy this might be “praiseworthy”, but in our extremely sick economy it only provides illusion of recovery (only good for covering the next election.). Only price-worthy Trade-goods will allow us to put our people back to work again permanently with acceptable wages.

Eliza-1080780 ---

Has any major political change EVER happened without VIOLENCE?

Unemployment is now at 15%, real total, (40 Million?) and it will soon out number the National Guard and the regular Army --- and these will not shoot anyways at their own families and other civilians ---( only the, totally out numbered, “Police” might do so initially.)

In a few years the US will break-up and the “States” will be run by Street-gangs and Country-gangs, which you might have to join to feed your family.--- Most of the readers here have never seen REAL violence, which is apparently needed to bring about any significant CHANGE in our country.

These pernicious lowlifes are paid Soros & Obama Union thugs & Communist agitators. They don't want jobs, they want the Socialist country Obama promised them.

People need to understand this most basic thing, and we can look at the Arab Spring for our first clue of civil unrest, that we are at a tipping point in regard to the large disparity between rich and poor and the lack of voice in our current system. Our system is broken due to money in politics (lobbyists), gerrymandering (drawing districts so only one Party's votes count), the revolving door (particularly between Wall Street and government), suppression of the vote (IDs, no early voting, no same-day registration) etc.

We must protect every right--whether the right for labor to organize, or women's rights, or voter rights. When you stop protecting other's rights, your rights are next to go. Democray requires vigilance.

We have high unemployment, especially if you add those who have given up looking for work, those working part-time or at minimum wage who had to move in with family because no one can live on such measly incomes, unacceptable inflation in areas such as health care and education, more children living in poverty, etc. When people have no hope of a future, civil unrest is the result.

Why not discuss the root problems? What can we do to bring jobs back--decent jobs mind you--to make education and health care affordable, for people to retire with dignity like earlier generations, to restore the American Dream? We hear no such things from Teapublicans, that's for sure.

Joe -- First, how about letting up on the "diarrheaof the mouse" a little, and let others have a chance to post their views? And spare us the crap about how teabaggers all have jobs -- They are suffering in this economy and receiving government benefits just like everyone else. My entire family is right-wing and I know this first hand.

Maui2 -- The idea of "occupying" via tent cities was an idea that went awry by nature of attracting elements not a part of the movement--the homeless, drug addicts, etc., so in some ways an end to encampments is a good thing. However, using public spaces to protest is most definitely a part of democracy.

There's a cost to democracy and freedom. The "scabs" had to cross the picket line to go to work, traffic may be deterred, grass may get trampled, cities may have to spend more on police -- These are NOT excuses for suppression of free speech, ever. And the Tea Party packing heat was far more disturbing to me.

OWS has tried to keep the movement non-violent, and have done a pretty good job so far. Most of the violence to date was escalatedby police. The protests have been usurped by anarchists, for example in Rome during which OWS protesters joined police to remove them. The main message is not one of socialism, rather it's about restoring opportunity for all. It's not about "hand-outs," rather it's about fairness in all aspects of our system from taxation to priorities in spending to employment, etc.

May I suggest you turn off FOX Noise and Hate Radio, and get your information more credible news sources. Even the article above is wrong. It should read that police "beat" protesters, for example.

Many of the 1% agree with OWS (not the Big Oil or some on Wall Street, but certainly Silicon Valley and Hollywood wealth) that they need to pay a higher tax rate. They recognize that without a middle class (the 98%) with disposable income, the economy will collapse completely. If Big Business wants to sell their goods and services, they would do well to fight against becoming a plutocracy of only the extreme rich and extreme poor.

I don't understand why everyone doesn't get this--it's really basic.

Ptown27

we will have to agree to disagree......

I was disappointed that President Obama spent 2 years giving away the power they held in return for trying to get the republicans to come to the table in compromise....maybe he just did not realize the republicans do not work with democrats...it is a party thing

but after the 2010 elections, which the democrats did poorly in because of the efforts to get the republicans to come half way on things...remember how the republicans would make gestures and drag things out and then finally do nothing--the republicans never took the hand extended in partisanship but used the idea that they would participate to stall things so nothing got done and it made the President look bad....it worked beautifully.

I don't mind sharing the streets I walk on with the OWS....yes it gets a bit crowded, but then that is not so far from normal...I don't feel my constitutional rights are being violated because the crowd is large....

it was a GROUP of millionaires that asked to be taxed more....not one...but a group...plural...more than a few less than a horde.

The Bush administration gave tax credits to companies who out sourced jobs over seas and raised taxes on companies that exported...the oil companies also got tax breaks and government subsidies (even some lower income families can't get subsidized lunches for their kids) so the government did help to create jobs..........over seas.....and it was not union oriented it was Bush oriented.

the unemployment rate was 7.2% when Bush left office....2001 4.7%...2002 5.8%...2003 6.0%...2004and 6.1% in June 2005 5.1%..Feb 2006 was at 4.6%...2007 4.6%and then in 2008 and 2009 jumped to 5.8 and 9.3 due to the housing bubble pop and the wall street implosion and many unfunded pieces of legislation the republicans passed...all things that were results of the Bush administration...so yes we have seen better times and that is what the protesters are fighting for...bring jobs home, get out of the wars and raise revenue and things would drastically improve..most people don't want a hand out they just want a job and fair taxes.

The biggest booms were during the Clinton era...let's go back there...also was pretty peaceful back then and there was a big surplus to hand over to the republicans of 211 Billion...and then the republicans gave it ALL away in tax rebates..98% to the top 2% rich people and 2% to the 98% not rich people.

The constitution does not say where one cannot protest only that we can..

and although President Obama may have the wealthy on his list of donors his actions show that he tries to be fair to the 99% as well as the 1%....the republicans, having a very similar donor list show by their actions to be TOTALLY beholding to and working for the donor list...not the 99% who elected them and pays their salaries....so yes, I blame the republicans for the mess we are in, the stagnant atmosphere in Washington DC and our failed credit rating.

Unless you are a wealthy or a republican you are of no interest to the republican party or their agenda.

Sad..

Those who want freedom of expression on this board would do well to stay away from inflammatory claims or conspiracy theory lies. Examples are references to socialism, ACORN, communism, Soros, and the usual debunked propaganda and HATE that is damaging out great nation.

Please, let's have an intellectually-honest discussion with FACTS and without slurs.

So shutting down the banks, and the stock market and the ports is going to do what? Only make the economy worse and a lot of people lose their 401Ks, savings . Prevent people from getting to their jobs, supporting their families, contributing to the economy. BRILLIANT! Soros, ACORN and anyone else who is financially supporting these thugs should stick their money where the sun don't shine. Funny how these squatters see people with money as their enemy...UNLESS it's being handed to them. Soros has had his hand in other countries economy and practically destroyed them. Do you NOT think he has an agenda for the USA? Far as I know, it's not even his native country. Anyone notice that Soros, ACORN, et al are friends of Obama? That man has GOT to go!

Ok, OWS has now resorted to blocking the streets, basically preventing honest people from making their own living. I agree with the right to protest, but this is where I draw the line. The peoples' right to protest must be balanced with the peoples' right to make their living.

Eliza-1080780 ---

Has any major political change EVER happened without VIOLENCE?

Unemployment is now at 15%, real total, (40 Million?) and it will soon out number the National Guard and the regular Army --- and these will not shoot anyways at their own families and other civilians ---( only the, totally out numbered, “Police” might do so initially.)

In a few years the US will break-up and the “States” will be run by Street-gangs and Country-gangs, which you might have to join to feed your family.--- Most of the readers here have never seen REAL violence, which is apparently needed to bring about any significant CHANGE in our country.

Someone has to straighten out the lies and emotions of the liberals. Just like a typical Left Winger.. Insulting his family for being Right Wing. Give up your labeling and your envious BS.

You are joking me that the middle class is 98% Right? How black and white.

GO OUT AND GET YOUR OWN WEALTH IF YOU ARE JEALOUS!

Answer me this. Why don't you go out invent something or offer a product or service people need or want? Why? It could be because of government regulation and taxes and fees for people who want to start a business.

Maybe it is because you are LAZY and think that because you work for someone that means you should be rich. You work at the pleasure of an employer. If that organization isn't around, then they wouldn't have a JOB for you!

If you don't have a job, I can see why. No one would want to put up with you. I'll probably be flagged now, but wow!

PS I do allow others to voice their opinions. I just have a right to respond if I so wish!

Joe-903244

I don't believe everyone expects to be rich ...just gainfully employed and taxed fairly....workers gain from their employer and employers gain from their employees...it is a cooperative relationship.

what's wrong with that scenario?

and, yes, by all means respond......that is what debate, heated or otherwise, is all about.

But to call unemployed people lazy because there are no jobs to be had is a little harsh................people WANT to work they DON'T want handouts but they have to eat until the jobs are brought back home...gainful employment and fair taxation....win win for everyone rich and poor.

What does a person's demand that the government hold the banks accountable have to do with laziness?

Obama,, look out the window if your brave enough to. People starving but you only care for your bankers

I feel for the cabbi. But what did the tea bagging republicans do of significance? This government is corrupt and broken. Something of significance HAS to be done period. Or nothing of significance will change. You know like the tea bagging republicans didn't get anything changed for the good at all. Except getting themselves into position of corruption. ; ]

Cheers

HarryWinter2,

Yes, the businesses that once performed well here in the states have taken their work oversees in huge numbers and to many continents - wherever they could get cheaper labor.

This country still holds numerous intelligent individuals capable of direclty competing with the corporations. They either lack the funds to promote better business models, or they have regulations in place preventing them to getting a start.

Companys producing in other countries hold the strong advantage as lower wage workers are available - even when the lower wage is actually a slightly higher wage than workers in that country would otherwise receive.

This isn't about - take the work back from those countries. This is about getting the work more evened out - around the world.

Slave workers, forced to work for lower wages at long hours performing jobs once performed in the US at three to ten times their wage amount is sickening.

You have hungry children around the world. You have nations wanting to join in with the similar style of living, being able to afford many items they've been able to witness either through news reports, foreign visitors, or the Internet.

Prices.. constantly rising... are the largest hindering factor across the nation and around the globe.

Food must be grown and cultivated to properly feed everyone. Since there is hardly anything within this world which no longer has a price ( or tax ) on it, obtaining goods or products all nations seek becomes out of their own reach.

Governments attempt to 'negotiate' terms allowing arrangement for good, products, services to be exchanged, but generally high costs become involved.

The 'greed' stance may come into play where simply providing around the world becomes uncomprehensible because a 'profit' can not be made.

Electricity has climbed so bad through the years, many homes can hardly afford the costs. While blame can be placed on home owners... in fact corporations developing more and more electronic products have increased the demand on electricity three-fold.

Rather than begin developing better efficient, low-cost methods to obtain individual home electricity.. they've simply increased their prices, increased their coal / fuel comsumption, spent billions on implementing 'alternative electricity' which has cost everyone all around, yet hasn't really helped to lower the costs.

Energy saving bulbs recently came out.. with technology that has existed for centuries.. just possibly overlooked for years.. step up transformers taking less current to operate yet yielding same light results ( or similary in some cases ).

Rather than develop in home methods to help 'reduce the current drain' per home outlet.. ( similar to the newer energy saving bulbs.. ) they've merely raised prices.

One in home development that may or may not be viable that I have considered is having numerous 'step-up transformers' that plug into an outlet that grab only minor amounts of current, yet provide large enough current amounts to operate any home appliance.

Rather than reduce the current drain at the source, they've continued to increase the drain to make electricity cost more. Reducing the size of the drain via transformers would stand to reduce the over-all costs in electric and the fuel to produce.

Yet.. has ANYONE managed to implement this to date? No. My belief is the worry over not being able to MAKE ENOUGH PROFIT to substantiate such a drastic change.

People in high places KNOW these things exist.. they just refuse to allow them to occur for the lack of bottom line income they might be able to gain from them.

The problems lie with those in higher offices.

Electrical Engineers should have determined removing the auto recharging circuit ( via alternater - or even older auto generators ) long ago to levitate electricity... they just didn't look into that area as it is more a 'mechanics position' of which I managed to remove the auto re-charge circuit allowing one to have portable 110v AC electricity.

There are many ways things can change... big business and our Government need to allow the changes to take place - stop eating up earth's resources and largely destroying this planet all around.

This movement goes beyond the silly out of work college students who don't want to pay their school loans back. Call me a conspiracy theorist but there is more going on here than what the main stream media is telling us. If I could just throw thoughts out there: I believe its backed by the unions, communist radicals and maybe some of our corrupt ruling class in this country. Barrack included.

Yes, you need professional help.

Answer me this. Why don't you go out invent something or offer a product or service people need or want? Why?

I'd love to start a business, but I can't get health insurance-I have Crohns disease and no individual insurance will take me. Work for a big company, or go on medicare, that's my choices. I just want to have a chance . That's all I'm asking

HOLD YOUR GROUND! It's time we show America what the Republican Party is all about, stifling progress, jobs, pay increases and beating of unarmed citizens. As for the increase "Drain On Society" that is from your Corporate Masters deciding that they would rather pay profits to stockholders instead of your dumb @ss. So which side to you sit on? Corporations @ss-raping America or people who are tired of being cheated by the wealthy and elite?

Thank you Lori.. this is exactly what everyone is asking.. especially the protesters.

Hmmm..., and this group of thugs and criminals is supported by Obama, Pelosi, Maxine Waters, and the DNC... Interesting...

Well Mayor Bloomberg and his Napoleon complex really managed to screw this up.

What was a very peaceful demonstration in a park is now just what the little Hoover wanted, Bloomberg and his fellow New York Wall Street thugs can bust some heads and get on with the Christmas time violence Bloomberg wants so dearly.

Sure everyone could go home, and the do nothings in Washington DC could go back to doing the back door deals with their Wall Street Sugar Daddies pay them to do, and everything would go back to “normal”. I guess the OWS just didn’t see it that way.

Merry Christmas Washington; enjoy yourselves just like the hypocrites in New York

177 is a good start...but only a good start please arrest more. I see they are now assaulting the Police. I hope Comrade Obama is happy with all of this. He screws up the country and the economy and then encourages these rat bastards.

What I find the most infuriating and ironic is that these people are using the freedoms, rights and liberties that were secured by hundreds of thousands of Americans making the ultimate sacrifice in order to engage in anti-American rhetoric and behavior entirely aimed at open revolution. I find hiding behind a misapplication of the US Constitution to publicly degrade the American way to be dispicable. And at what point does this cross the line into treason? The head of OWS D.C. was caught on tape talking about the necessity of infiltrating the military to effect the revolution they want. That's outright treason if you ask me. And why wasn't that covered in the mainstream media? Take a wild guess. These people are talking about complete and total socialist reform. Has not one of them ever heard of the USSR and how well that worked out? Even if it had worked, it's irrelevant. This is the United States of America and it was built on a foundation of liberty, self-government, innovation, creativity, and the recognition of every citizens birth right to be free. Socialist governments by definition are not free. It's axiomatic. Obama and the rest of the dems are going to rue the day they supported these traitors. It's going to cost them all their jobs. The only question will be how long will it take the rest of us sane people living in reality to fix what they've done?

Yes, once again our idiotic, incompetent, resentful, contemptious and destructive leader has managed to create yet another divide. How in the living hell can we take four more years of this @!$%#? Have democrats been so dumbed down that they actually now believe they are entitled to other's hard earned wealth? Do you idiotic parasite liberals have no shame? Why do you seek to destroy the greatest country in the world? What in the hell is wrong with you bunch of self-indulgent tripe? I hope the police napalm these sons a bitches. Obama should be charged with treason right along with these stench-infested hippy bastards. Nothing good will come of this. I hope they all die a horrible death for putting police officers in harm's way. And to think our @!$%#ed-up Che Guevera loving leader is supporting this. Stupid son of a bitch!!!

I used to really hate the OWS morons.

But I've come to really appreciate what they're doing... giving a black eye to democrats.

There are a few crazies in the tea party that liberals love to associate with all of the other conservatives.

Now they have their own group of crazies... A much bigger, and dumber group.

Just another nail in Obamas coffin. I'll be so glad when he packs up his belongings, and moves his ugly wife out of the white house.

oskar....

I believe that the agressive and destructive tone of these 'protests'...if things continue and keep escalating...suggests that should President Obama be voted out of office in 2012, there is a strong possibility of rioting in urban areas. That protesters are now showing up with some type of liquid irritant to throw in the faces of police officers...well that sums up things quite well.

And I don't want to hear anything about police tactics....the OWS nitwits are breaking the law...the police are not braking the law, they are enforcing laws the protesters are breaking.

Anyone see that guy on the news last night saying, quite proudly, that he has going to ignite a molotov cocktail in Macy's ??? There's plenty more nutballs like him out there.

We have cities where cars get overturned, property gets lit afire, and people get beaten or killed...WHEN THOSE CITIES WIN ATHLETIC CHAMPIONSHIPS, for God's sake !!!

Can anyone say with any certainty that some cities won't erupt into violence should Mr. Obama lose his job next year ??? What we are seeing in the cities right now is a pretty good indication of what may come.

Decision point is coming. Will there be peace or will there be war?

Greed will demand blood either way. Greed will offer material things stolen from others to make peace. Greed will demand the sacrifice of the expendable to make war. Greed is a self serving God.

Will OWS succumb to greed?

Yes, the can of worms has been opened.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." - Mario Savio, Berkley, 1964

I work contruction..one little pop in the head, you bleed like crazy...media want's these people to look like incredible abused martyrs ....they are just losers looking for a free pass ....get a life...get a job....learn to learn how to really "work" for a living!!!!!!

I turned on the news today, and saw protestors talking about the usual stuff - how Wall Street uses tax loopholes to pay little or no tax, won't hire any workers even though they're sitting on billions of dollars, etc. You know, the usual talking points that many of us can agree with.

However, I also notice they fail to mention the thousands of cases where people are cheating the Government (I bolded that because it seems vaguely important to me) and getting on the public dole for more money than they would otherwise be entitled to. I challenge any OWS protestors that may be viewing this article (or their supporters) to answer me this question: Why the one-sided arguments? Do you think these people are innocent of any wrongdoing? They are basically doing the same thing Wall Street is doing. I would think you would consider them to be part of the problem as well, like I do.

Lori W-2777522

I'd love to start a business, but I can't get health insurance-I have Crohns disease and no individual insurance will take me. Work for a big company, or go on medicare, that's my choices. I just want to have a chance . That's all I'm asking

So what is to stop you from creating your own business intially in your spare time while still working at your current job? Is working and additional 40 hours a week to better yourself too much work for you? There is nothing stopping you from having a chance to go work for yourself, except yourself. Yes you need money and time but you can start small by working on the side and build up your business enough until you leave your current job. It's just a matter of putting in the time and effort.

I hope your're happy Obama. And I hope all the jacklegged fools who voted this bastard in are happy with what they got. Is this what you wanted?

No, this is exactly what Eric Cantor wanted. Eric Cantor, YOUR representative, called Republicans to "GO TO WAR" in 2009. Well guess what, you've got YOUR war.

We, the people, have seen what YOU Republicans want to do. We have seen you try to pass your oppressive laws upon us. We have seen you try to strip our freedom and impose your tyranny. We have seen you support corrupt lobbyists, corporations, and politicians. We have heard your calls to tax us more, while reducing the taxes on the rich.

We will not allow the Republican party, or the Tea Party, to tell us what religion we have to follow... we will not allow you to tell us who we can love, or who we can marry... we will not allow you to tell us what we can put into our own body... we will not allow you to tell us what we can do with our own body... we will not allow you to tell us what we can watch and hear on television... we will not allow you to take our money and give it freely to the ruling class.

This is OUR LIFE, and we have the freedom from YOUR Republican tyranny. We have seen your religious extremism... your fascist ideology... your tyranny and oppression. We have seen what you are trying to do, and we are standing against you. We stand for freedom... FREEDOM from people like YOU.

The lines have been drawn. YOU support oppressing those who are not like you. YOU support corrupt lobbyists influencing laws and regulations. YOU support more government controlling our personal lives. The lines have been drawn, and we are on the other side.

Or, you can do what I used to do, Lori, and freelance. It won't make you part of the 1%, but it keeps a little supplemental cash coming in.

Plus, if they like your work enough, they'll hire you on a permanent basis. I got a job as a graphics designer this way. They paid my way to Idaho, gave me a couple grand to get settled in, and pretty soon I was standing on my own two feet. There are jobs out there, you just gotta be willing to take risks on the Internet.

I wish you luck in whatever goals you may set for yourself. You can do it. :)

the problem is joe our current govt is not set up around personal responsibility. they bail out banks and corporations with bad business practices. put laws into effect that help large banks and corporations while hurting and limiting the abilities of small banks and businesses( making it harder for them to compete), thus creating a monolopy environment in our capatilitst system. untill this stops you will just see a continued downslide for every average citizen in this country.

well CJ i believe in OWS and i also believe that if you are cheating the govt you should go to jail for it and be denied future benefits. but to get any of these changes we need to get rid of all the current politicians both republican and democrat

Heya Pelosi.....

The OWS protesters are waiting for you to show up with your gavel, to lock arm in arm with them, and march down 5th Avenue to Tiffanys.

Might as well bring Biden, Reid, Frank, Dodd, and Rangle too.

According to lib logic all Problems in the US can be contributed to the following items. Any dem or liberal rebuttal or attack will contain a reference to one of the following as the root of their argument.

TEA Party

Bush

GOP

Obstruction

Fox

Rich People

Greed

As where greed may be the root of evil, there is no greed greater than socialism, wealth redistribution and feeding on the success of others. Dems and libs are narrow minded, rude, arrogant, immoral, fascist, masochist, blind, sheep, being led to slaughter by the very things they hold dear.

What percentage pays taxes? To receive benefits from something which you have not, do not and will not contribute too is theft, unless you are physically and mentally unfit for anything.

The world does not owe you a living Grasshopper!

Libs and Dems, the winter is coming 2013

The Occupy People need to get a grip or get on a plane to another country ...

Socialism is based on the tenants of the well-being of all. Read the words of Jesus. You may notice that he supports socialism. We are all supposed to be servants to each other. We are not to hoard riches, but give to the poor. Remember the parable of the barn?

Socialism is mercy, not greed. Your statement is false.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

To former-GOP,

Yeah? Well my Dad can beat up your "2 Moms"! So there.

Many of the 1% agree with OWS (not the Big Oil or some on Wall Street, but certainly Silicon Valley and Hollywood wealth) that they need to pay a higher tax rate.

This whole thing has been pretty mystifying to me. So part of the 1% stands with the 99%. And it's pretty clear from the comments so far that a number of the 99% don't really stand with the 99%. I think the percentages need to be adjusted. Furthermore, it's true that I am always hearing how this or that person from Hollywood or this or that famous person supports the OWS movement. The most coherent statements I've heard about the movement, in fact, have come from wealthy or well-known people like this who have stated their support for the so-called 99% but were more likely in the 1%. It makes me wonder who is REALLY running this thing. And I don't mean any big conspiracy thing-I just mean who is really speaking for them and are they being used or manipulated because of the high state of emotion and passion.

These people in NYC who are in the supposed 99% are out in the streets rioting and throwing stinging liquid in the faces of police. They are disobeying laws that have been clearly stated to them, and then they scream with outrage when the police retaliate like riot police normally do. The article states that the police had a barricade and warned the protesters. I certainly agree that the problems are huge-we have been through the rough road of unemployment ourselves-and the corruption is bad and all of that, but rioting against the police, breaking laws, and hurting people is hardly the way to convince me that the OWS protesters are the ones with the answers to clean up corruption.

theCavalier - Jesus supported charity. Socialism is NOT charity. Charity is giving of your own free will. Charity at the barrel of a gun is not charity - it's a mugging.

To eric1964,

well CJ i believe in OWS and i also believe that if you are cheating the govt you should go to jail for it and be denied future benefits. but to get any of these changes we need to get rid of all the current politicians both republican and democrat

Interesting answer. I share many of your ideas. I too agree with a few of the arguments OWS has made. However, I believe sending them to jail is not the answer. I have a different solution - put these people in some sort of workshop, where they will be required to work until they pay off what they owe. This would be a MUCH more efficient use of our tax money. Then, when their stint is up, the state can find them a job in the regular job market.

What do you think?

Hmm. As I begin this time because I pose this question. How is it un American for people to want the law to be applied to ALL equally? How is it un American to wish that corruption be ended and punished? How is it un American to wish that a level playing field is had due to the rich and corporations having ;lobbyist to influence unduly and illegally politicians on tax dollar salary meant ot represent the will of the people. Not the paying few? Hmmm Un American you say?

It would seem that those who are un American are those who wish to quash free speech the right to assemble and the right to re dress grievance. In fact those who support lobby's and the illegal influence of politicians for profit as a Mr Gingrich participates in are quite Un American. Because we are a DEMOCRACY first. Not a Capitalist country first. That is second. Yet it seems so many on this board alone wish to have only there points and ideas be heard and assumed to be correct. Them alone. But TRUE Americans are not afraid of opposing ideas nor are they cowards to compromise and pragmatism. It is only those who wrap themselves in an incessant need to have only there way and there way alone that is dangerous. Because they believe themselves omnipotent and GOD like as they must see themselves as perfect to assume they alone have all of the answers. As though there are not two sides to the coin. Indeed . ; ]

Name calling and personal attacks are the recourse of a crying child on the proverbial playground of the youth. Trolling the gutters of flowing filth unable to meet ideas head on. ; ] They cower behind "I know you are but what am I"

Cheers

Cheers

Socialism is not redistributing your money. Greed is ...

Greed will create the desire for 'things' - for bigger - for better. Greed is stealing your money to create that desire elsewhere. Greed will entice the 'poor' to desire money. Greed will entice the 'rich' to desire money. Greed does not care about class. Greed will create conflict - war - envy - entitlement. Greed is self serving - greed cares little how it feeds itself.

Every one of us was born into this world naked and unable to care for ourselves. Every one of us will leave this life alone - that final step into the darkness is ours to take, naked - empty handed - alone.

We have an eternity to be alone - why allow greed to entice us into standing alone while we live?

--- The Good, the Bad --- and the Ugly American! ---
---- Marching Song for Johnny America in year 2006--- (Just for Fun)

Lighten up says he,
Lighten up says he,
Lighten up says Johnny Carree
Look at how happy I am --- to be and on a role,
For life is cheep and so much fun on Rent-control
!

And here is the 2011 update by the “American State-Police associations”

Lighten up says he,
Lighten up says he,
For now we’re coming for Yeh ---
Mr. American Johnny Carree,--- He, He, He.

We too need all the fun you pre-dict
and now we will have it on Yeh ---
in your own Rent –- control dis-trict

ZEN: BODHISATTVA (by Dick Suthpen).
The silence is broken by the s-s-wish of the Samurai sword severing illusions
and it rolls across the floor leaving a bloody trail of -- ~--~~-^_~~ -- ~--~~-^_~~ truth

Why are you singing off topic on a political opinion board?? Seems so? I don't know? Obtuse,?.. if I may. ; ]

Cheers

Gosh, I wish I could remember how the media covered all the sexual assaults and riots by the tea party. Oh wait ..... there were no riots or sexual assaults by members of the tea party. These people are puppets of the unions and George Soros

FINALLY, Mayor Bloomberg decides to take action and eject the rabble from the streets of NYC. Sure took him long enough.

Fanatics throughout history have always been happy to trade on half truths, obfuscation and verbal legerdemain to advance their "causes" - whether you are talking about the murderous Lenin and Stalin's exercises in nihilism, murder and communism; or Hitler or any other bunch of simple minded, one note extremists they are all exactly the same but different; only differentiated by the name of their "cause". They truly do know though, beyond a shadow of a shade of a doubt, that if only all the poor dumb schucks out there, who sadly for them don't think nearly as clearly, aren't nearly as enlightened and aren't nearly as sophisticated as the members of Occupy - that the world would be a much better place - despite the fact they themselves haven't a clue about what they want or where they want the world to go.

The Occupy movement is composed of the types who see all the problems clearly, but alas, whose eyeseight completely fails them when it comes to seeing real solutions to the problems they decry.

And, in lieu of actually being able to convince people through any type of well founded arguments and intelligent persuasion; well, there is of course always the truism that "might makes right"; and the ends do justify the means.

After all what's a few police officers injured? - when you are "saving" the world it's not that big a deal I'm sure they would say? I beg to differ - in the strongest terms.

The police are to be commended for using the restraint they did - certainly more than the five charged with felony assault; they want to get up close and personal with the poor? Mayhap a night or two with some nice fellas in Rikers will do the trick.

The near sighted Occupiers of Wall Street, like all fanatics and extremists before them down the hallways of time are long on screaming about problems yet totally short on viable solutions and only too happy to view symptoms as the cause. This is akin to blaming a hangover headache on the headache instead of the intemperate behavior that caused you to guzzle alcohol and poison yourself.

Certainly there are problems with our culture - just as there are in all cultures - but you don't solve problems by shouting at them and acting in a way that strongly suggests you are little more than children masquerading as adults in grown up's bodies.

Time for this phony "movement" to fade into its well deserved oblivion and for its silver spooned fed proponents - caught up in the angst of being poor little rich kids - to go home and back to their "real lives" - going to school again - on mommy and daddy's dime.

Ah, this humongous monster called "They"! They said this, they said that. He has a twin on whatever the other side is, too.

However, what has attracted my attention is a recent issue raised by the Protesters. The OWSs (we are all protesting, I think ;). They want "student loans to be forgiven."

What's to “forgive”? Forgive making the loan? Forgive non-payment of loan? Forgive them jail time for breaking a loan contract?

LOL... well since they cannot reverse making the loan, “forgive” implies they did something horrendously wicked that they should not have done, and they are uttering a mea culpa. Or...

“Forgive” non-payment of the loan? That speaks to intent, doesn't it. So, theoretically it implies if we won't forgive that particular sin, they are stuck with the consquences of the sin itself... and ...

“Forgive” breaking their contract to pay? Presumably if they have already gotten the loan, spent the money, and don't want to repay, or saying they won't repay, it seems that the Civil Codes have choices available to the people to whom they owe the money.

That is significant, folks. It R US. We fund the government. The government makes the laws we tell them to make (Congress), enforces those laws (Presidency... he is not supposed to make laws, btw), and interprets the laws (Supreme Court of law for our nation). That's it, group. So when we (yes, us) make a loan to people so they can go to college, and they decide they do not want to pay the loan... guess who they are defrauding.

Us American citizens. I cannot afford you, sorry about that. Too many people a generation or two ahead of you paid their way by working their way through college. Others did both, got jobs, got loans. Paid the loans, sometimes for five to ten years, but paid up.

Yep... all of us who work, pay taxes in most cases to states, even counties, depending upon the source of the loan, but these poor benighted protesters think, it seems, it is only the scurvy Republicans who are the source of the money paying those taxes? ... do you think the Democrats will be exempt from their share of the money we all paid for their loan?

Does anyone else besides me see something totally inconsistent with the behavior, thoughts, inclinations, expectations, and cosmic ignorance of these “protesters” from the git go?

I still cannot figure out what they are protesting about... it was a considerable time after they gathered together to shout and yowl and fuss before they came up with 1% wealthy people who should be forced to spend all their wealth on them … and all those richniks are presumably on Wall Street in New York City... i.e., the stock exchange.

LOL That is the most amusing thing I have seen. The stock exchange doesn't have the money themselves. They really are glorified bookkeepers and manage the funds of their clients. (Yes, this is super simplistic. But I am being simplistic for the simplistic protesters.)

Yep the wicked 1%-ers... billionaires like Bill Gates who funds with his billions people like Children With Aids, Food Bank in NYC, other organizations, saving the environment, helping minorities... sharing the results of his own hard work.

You ought to be ashamed of yourselves! You do not even know who, or what, or why you are "protesting."

You'd make a better impression if you DONATED your own hard work where it is needed... be like the billionaires you have such contempt for... share your OWN billions the same way you want the billionaires to help you...

Share yourselves! That's the greatest wealth of all ...to help people who are handicapped, can't get jobs because of their age, even take jobs for which you think you are over-qualified. Try scrubbing floors, cleaning public toilets, cleaning outside windows in bitter cold... I did, my friends did, folks i thought I didn't like did... (and found they were a heck of a lot nicer than I thought).

The way you are squandering your own wealth is the most contemptible thing you are doing.

This dysfunctional mob has become an embarrassment.

This is not the 99% that made America the greatest Republic in history. These are thugs, murderers, rapists, vandals and criminals as they get arrested for their cause.

Do they honestly believe that any reasonable employer will hire them with their assault record? Do they think I'm going to be "compassionate" to their cause when they apply for a job in my business? The drugs must be really good at Obamaville where they have been trespassing for the past 2 months.

How can anyone take this mob seriously? The only movement I've seen are the bowel movements they leave all over Zucotti Park.

Look, people!

The question is not what I want, what the guy sitting next to me wants...the question is: What do YOU want?

Whatever it is, get it in here and add your voice to the mix! YOU know this crap is broken, right? Then get in here and add what you want to the list! We accept ALL voices. Don't listen to the media to get a defined outlook from me and my friends. Get in here, find people who agree with you, start a working group.

Once we have all the voices, we can come to a consensus, and figure out where to go from here. But we can't do that until the voices of the 99 have been heard!

So quitcherbitchin' and come add to the discussion!

300?

THIS.

IS!

SPARTA!. ; ]

Cheers

Danaelle... i expressed my opinion just above you... and I started out basically neutral back in the day you folks started up.

Why do I think you are not interested, not only in just my opinion, but more important, tell me your opinion about the ideas I suggested for all of us, you, your friends, me, my friends... I gave specifics where you could REALLY help, and find help, where it is needed most.

And it doesn't cost billions of dollars. What damaging admissions you protesters make. You do not think very highly of yourselves. You realize, Covetousness is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. That's when you obsess on things. Envy, another of them, is when you resent a person you think is superior to you.

You should ask yourself why.

That's life you know. There is really only one person in the world we can control... and don't kid yourself...

"The man convinced against his will, will keep his own opinion still."

But... good news... the one person any of us can control is oneself. There are always choices... and sometimes, a lot of times, endurance is the one we decide on. It works, too... always an upside. It gives us the best kind of strength and what we need the most.

Strength of character.

The demonstrators included actor-director Andre Gregory, who said he hoped the movement would lead to national action on economic injustice.

"It's a possible beginning of something positive," he said.

Yup, I'm positive this movement is anti-American, and is one of the most ignorant protest groups ever. (Who is this Actor? Oddly enough, they don't seem to have the first problem with insanely rich actors, actors who they have made rich.....)

The movement is going down the tubes. They don't understand the economy. Their actions are hurting they very people they claim to represent. They support the very people who have brought our country to where it is and they think they are doing a good thing. If we cave into their mindset, the economy will collapse. If they continue in this vein, all working Americans will be against them.

This is what a generation of "me first" and "I want what you have NOW, even though I can't afford it or need it" has created.

Oh and Lori W....you can get health care now, by going to your State's High Risk Pool. But then, you probably won't be able to get a loan since it will put your % spent on necessities too high to be able to get that loan for your business.

Conservatives

"Do not ask what your country could do for you! Ask what you can do for your country" - JFK

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division
of blessings, while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of
misery." - Winston Churchill

Beautifully put Second Sight. Bravo!

They should be flocking to political candidates that support what they want (whatever that is). Marching in the street accomplishes nothing. Congressional term limits would stop a lot of the abuses OWS says they're against. Maybe then our representatives would work for us instead of lobbyists and their own party agenda.

Freedom of speech is not Freedom to interfere and trample on the rest of our rights that don't agree with another's position.

Which politicians, the Democins or the Republicrats? Both parties are nothing but corporate whores and th esupreme court ruled that corporations are people and th econstitution applies to them? This is what they are protesting, the banks got a bailout and we got screwed!

A challenge to all the OWS critics: Do you care about your fellow citizens and the world around you, or just about yourselves? If you do care about others, then what are YOU doing to fix this country that you think is more effective than protesting in the streets? Share with us. How's your strategy working out?

Our government has been hopelessly corrupted by money. It's a democracy in name only, and everyone knows it. The laws aren't written to benefit the public at large. The middle class and the environment are both disappearing. Our so-called leaders and representatives show no motivation to do anything but serve the wealthy, the finance industry, the military industrial complex, and other well connected corporate interests. Peak oil and global warming are coming down the road, but nothing meaningful is being done to address those problems, because any meaningful action might disrupt the income flows of generous campaign donors.

OWS folks are doing their best to overturn all of this corruption through force of numbers and determination. It's a long shot, but, short of violent revolution, there aren't many effective alternatives left. Our "representatives" quit sincerely considering the needs of the public a long time ago. And, just so you know, most of the Occupiers that I've met aren't supporters of Obama. They recognize Obama and the Dems as part of the problem.

This is not the way the world works. Politicians get into office by campaigning. They need money to campaign. Normal people's donations might get as large as $10K per person. Corporation's donations are $100,000+ if not millions. Money buys politicians into office.

The only way to change this is if politicians did not have to campaign. That is, if politicians did not have to spend millions of dollars to trash talk their opponents, sugar coat their initiatives, and much much more just to convince people that they are the best candidates.

How can we achieve this? If Occupy's "99%" stopped protesting in the streets, got an education, researched the candidates that are running as their representatives, and elect the best candidate. In other words, stop believing all the ridiculous ad campaigns that politicians love to toot and look at things like their past history in politics, their voting history, and the major contributors to their campaigns. That way, politicians don't need so much money (from corporations) to make such unseemly big campaigns to convince stupid people why they are the best choice for the people.

All problems can be traced to the stupidity of most Americans.

Mayor Bloomberg failed at his job.

If he required PERMITS for the OWS, like he does for VERY OTHER group, the money that pays for the Permit helps pay the cost of the clean-up and security.

Unlawful assembly is when there is a protest without proper legal Permits.

John Davidson: this is a Republic, not a Democracy...says it right in our Pledge of Allegiance. And yes, I do care about myself before I care about others when the selfish actions of squatters and vagrants are impeding on my right to go to work and live my life. I both live and work in downtown NYC. I've had to walk past the filthy creatures who squatted in Zuccotti Park for almot two months and hear and smell their garbage. They've made their point. They think they're proving something in blocking the subways and the Brooklyn Bridge and the Financial District, but all they are serving to do now is piss off the people that they're supposedly speaking for, the everyday working man or woman who is earning their keep and actually contributing to society. It's time for these people to go home and do something constructive like go back to school or, oh, I don't know, look for a job. Their whining is getting tedious.

A challenge to all the OWS critics: Do you care about your fellow citizens and the world around you, or just about yourselves?

i care first about my family and me. my 'fellow citizens and the world around me' fall way behind on the list of things i care about. if you took care of yourself, and your neighbor took care of himself, etc, everything would be fine. but bc you think you DESERVE a job and DESERVE to go to college for free to get a philosophy degree, we are all getting bogged down by your pointless protest. when will you figure out that the majority of americans don't care and aren't responding to you? we are busy living our lives and taking care of our families. stop asking for handouts and do something productive. this protest ain't it.

TIme for the stinky junkies of Obamaville to go away.

John Davidson, Here is the fundamental problem. What is the OWS movement trying to turn the country into and is it going to be better than what we have now. Until the movement can articulate a coherent message and vision for the changes they advocate, I cannot make a reasonable determination as to where my support should lie. Yes, there are lots of things wrong with the country that need to be changed but I don't know if OWS is going to make it better or worse. From what little one can piece together of their direction they seem to be moving closer and closer to trying to reestablish communism and I am NOT going there. The big story yesterday was the internal OWS debate about whether or not they should publish a list of demands. If they don't do something to communicate a plan they will not get the support of most of the country. You can argue about polls that say the majority support the movement but all they really support is the notion of the movement. To get anyone to DO anything we need to know what it is we're getting ourselves into.

Steve-2081387

TIme for the stinky junkies of Obamaville to go away.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Time for the stinking rich of Wall Street to payback what we gave them for their failures. And to get out of our government!

Why does it matter how much money someone spends to get elected? I don't vote based on how many ads I see. I vote on the person I think will do what I think is best.

If people are using their minds, an election cannot be bought.

"bound to get a lot more ugly" ummm isn't that the point, things dont get better with roses and dandelions, some s*** is about to go down, go utilize your 2nd amendment right and wait for marshal law, this country blows because the good people who would do right, don't have the information to see what is really going on, its all speculation, and elections are all bought and rigged, your vote doesn't mean s***

ltp... you won't be able to make your own bill payments a few more years down the road.

You truly care about your family? Then you should TRULY be more caring about what they've done to your country... not complaining about those trying to correct the problems.

So everyone goes, gets a 'jog' everyone so rampantly states.. life is better? The rich still rake more in a year, than you'll make in your lifetime.. but.. those RICH will be behind seeing to it.. you can NOT afford to buy food for your family, keep a roof over their head, or afford to buy clothing.

You will have become a working class slave... handing your money over to them faithfully as you try to struggle to live.

They lie to you and everyone across this country. Electricity is NOT that difficuilt to produce.. they just brainwash you to thinking only they can provide it.. so you have to pay them for it.

The alternatives are so much better??? Then why do they charge MILLIONS for it over allowing everyone to have it.. so the DRAIN on earth's resources would be drastcally reduced????

Greed.. their greed, pure and simple.. and you feed that daily by being the good slave and make that money for them.

You truly think they have your family's best interests at heart? They're taking the world to the cleaners.. and you along with it.

Just ask the workers at FoxConn.

If the unions are allowed to give HUGE amounts to the political candidates/parties that they choose, then the corporations should be able to do the same thing.

-------- What is the SIGNIFICANCE of these Word-wide OWS demonstrations?------
Prophetic words by Tom Friedman, the famous journalist with “The New York Times” are.
“Now let me say that in English: the European Union is cracking up. The Arab world is cracking up. China’s growth model is under pressure and America’s credit-driven capitalist model has suffered a warning [major] heart attack and needs a total rethink. Recasting any one of these alone would be huge. Doing all four at once — when the world has never been more interconnected - is mind-boggling. We are again present at the creation - but of what?

[ Never in the history of modern man has such a global event ever happened ]

As for America, we’ve thrived in recent decades with a “credit-consumption-led economy”, whereby we maintained a middle class by using more steroids (easy credit, subprime mortgages and construction work) and less muscle-building (education, skill-building and innovation). It’s put us in a deep hole, and the only way to dig out now is a new, hybrid politics that mixes spending cuts, tax increases, tax reform and investments in infrastructure, education, research [innovation] and production. But that mix is not the agenda of either party. Either our two parties find a way to collaborate in the center around this new hybrid politics, or a third party is going to emerge — or we’re stuck and the pain will just get worse”. ----

harry Winter2... a most intelligent post.. thank you very very much.

It already is ugly. The Oakland group has smashed windows, started fires and one is already dead.

Obama needs to come talk to his troops.

Harry..........Tom Friedman has stated that he wants Obama to spend even more money. He is a moron.

They have no right to disrupt public transportation or to keep people from going to work!!!

They are going to keep this up, spreading their protest, until a governor or even the president decides to declare martial law; then none of us will have our freedoms for a time. Is that what these fools want for all of us?!!

I guess it's time for the Antichrist to show up now.

book'em Danno....book'em all.

Sorry, but this whole thing is a joke. A bunch of freeloaders, most of whom look like they are barely old enough to know what it is to actually get up in the morning and go to work, let alone get up every day for years and do it.....

And they want something given to them.

Well, at least they will get a free meal...courtesy of the state (and workers tax dollars) when they go to jail.

They are a drain on society, no matter how you want to look at them.

AntiChrist already here. He and the Big Ugly Mooooooooooosechelle been living at 1600 Pennsylvania since January 2009. His plans are coming to fruition.

Soupy, you make a great point, albeit it made me laugh! Obama is doing exactly what he meant to do, and as usual the stupid people fall for it. He has everyone fixated on the economic woes HE CREATED, and then passes his failures on to the Republicans, so hence it appears it's only the GOPs fault. It's classic bait and switch, and liberals are too idiotic and dependent to see the truth. Time to take the trash out!

They've tried to make the point other ways.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley, 1964

Take a long hard look at what the police are doing to these people and you will be looking into the face of fascism. To those of you applauding what the police are doing, you need to ask yourself, what if one of the people being beaten and arrested was someone you know and love, would you still be applauding.

How many of us want term limits? I would say the majority except that everybody thinks the one they voted for is doing a good job. That is the conundrum.

When the Tea Party reps got into office, a few of them explained how they had to on Day 1 start making phone calls to get the money machine going again. They are required to do so unless then do not plan to run again. I sure didn't seem like they enjoyed this pressure at all, and in fact many said they are horrible at asking for money because they hate the cold calling.

McCain/Feingold tried to limit the influence outside money had on elections by passing legislation that would take ONLY public money. McCain did, but Obama refused. OBAMA should never have been elected based on his decision because it showed he could be bought which we now see is very true. Voters made up excuses for his poor decision saying he had to get private money because he wouldn't get elected otherwise. McCain did NOT get Wall Street money because he wouldn't play ball and in fact blamed Cox at the SEC which infuriated Wall Street. So voters were wrong to keep voting in those that refuse to simply take the public money, split it, and may the best man/woman win.

On a positive side, the Kaufman foundation, please google it, said today that a survey in France showed that 86 percent of college students wanted to work for the government. Holy Cow!!!!! Conversely 67 percent of US college students want to work for themselves. PEOPLE, this is huge. I am heartened by those US stats.

The Kaufman foundation is suggesting to the Obama adm to allow new businesses to be created by removing ALL TAXES and regulations for the 1st few years to allow them to get started. When asked about big business, this CEO replied that big corporation are focused on efficiency and thus the need for less humans as workers. The NEW business ventures will need people power and this is where we should be focusing our efforts to allow those seeds to sprout.

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE.

Endangering the public is against the law. Interfering with the rights of others is against the law.

The OWS does not have superior "rights" and do not have any legal authority to hassle others or deny THEM of their rights to go about their business.

Are you kidding me?!?!?! Talk about people wanting to destroy, break, and bring down, people, ideas and a culture. I challenge them to try to build, preserve, and maintain. It is easy to destroy, it is hard to build. Try being productive instead of destructive...

Take a long hard look at what the police are doing to these people and you will be looking into the face of fascism. To those of you applauding what the police are doing, you need to ask yourself, what if one of the people being beaten and arrested was someone you know and love, would you still be applauding.

Yes I would. Why? Because THEIR rights don't take precedence over anyone else's. These people are certainly not lords/ladies and kings/queens of the Universe. I know these protestors want to be heard, but there's a right way and a wrong way to be heard. You don't violate other peoples' rights in defense of your own rights, because that makes you look like you're only concerned about yourself.

problem with that energizer is that the supreme court has decided that politicians dont have to say where they get their money from. voting record also only counts for an established politician, not one that is new and running for office. what is truely needed is an option for after their first year in office where the american public can do a no confidence vote to remove and replace them.

Dustin, maintaining a bad system is stagnation in the worst way. Have you not heard that you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs?

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

There are no legitimate reasons for the arrests of the hundreds of our citizens that have taken place across this country. The goal of these arrests are designed to achieve censorship and passive acceptance of the Wall Street corruption - pure and simple.

What is taking place in America is shameless and contradicts our U.S. Constitution.

Hopefully, these demonstrators will bring about positive change to our badly skewed economic, political and social system.

This really ticks me off BIG TIME! Who the hell do these whiners think they are? They have the right to protest but no way does that give them the right to block others from going to and from work or their homes. Who the hell do they think they are to cost the city the major expense of controlling their rag tag protest and take needed law enforcement officers away from other areas. They have accomplished NOTHING of value and certainly have not changed a damn thing on Wall Street except to make themselves as welcomed as an invasion of houseflies at a family picnic. Just a lot of incoherent buzzing, movement and filth in their wake. SWAT them into the history book of failed causes.

YOU ARE NOT REPRESENTING THE TRUE 99%, you are representing what your Deomcratic puppet masters tell you to and no one else. Drink deep the kool aid and eat the chocolate pudding if you must, but play time is over...time to become an adult and pay your way like the rest of us do daily.

THE “GREAT AMERICAN NIGHTMARE” 9/28/2011
The Economic disaster that is now hitting the US and most of the World is a necessary step for mankind's Noetic-evolution. --- Why? --- I just read, at newswine, that 93% of Americans still believe in “The Great American Dream”. If you are one of those believers you must first be convinced by a painful “US Economical Cataclysm” (and great VIOLENCE) that it cannot be realized, because it is an “extreme case” of a duality and must turn into “The Great American Nightmare” instead . However, if you are in the 7% bracket you are innocent and will only become “collateral damage” with the same result. Sorry about that.

( Just say after me: - Eli Eli Lama Sabachani? )

Don’t know if I can explain this to you in this short post, but let me try. Consider how this “Dream” got started in the first place. Most immigrants from Europe were “poor peasants” all being subject to the mercy of their powerful Land Barons and the Government suporting those. What lured these pesents to America was a good chance to become a land owners themselves and also as rich and powerful as their previous suppressors; basically reversing their status. It’s a complete role reversal and if one side of this duality is considered evil, so is the other. To day, this wishful dream-process has become true for only 2% or 3% of all Americans, namely for the Millionaire stockholders and their CEOs. All the rest of us are now again the “suppressed peasants” of old times. We have “recreated” these times again by clinging to our dream-like illusion.

BODHISATTVA (by Dick Suthpen).
The silence is broken by the s-s-wish of the Samurai sword severing illusions - and it rolls across the floor leaving a bloody trail of -- ~--~~-^_~~ -- ~--~~-^_~~ truth

caljam

It already is ugly. The Oakland group has smashed windows, started fires and one is already dead.

Obama needs to come talk to his troops.

caljam,

If this is true - it is ugly.

The American people should not have to die - fighting for freedom.

@theCavalier

I agree with the quote only the Civil Rights movement had a purpose, to create and build something better, racial equality. THe had a clear vision and idea on how this would come to be. The OWS is directionless, hell bent on destroying without offering something better or something at all to be critiqued. All I hear is the 1% should pay their fair share. Ok what does that look like? How will you impose it? What is a fair share? This is what I mean all I hear is make them pay their fair share, offer solutions, not new problems

So do any of the protesters have a job? What right do they have to keep other people from working? What right do they have on destroying other peoples properties? Also do they know what are they protesting about? Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing to have...if the system is screwed-up then work on fixing it not disrupted everyone else lives by acting like a fool. I think some of them are just up to no good and crate chaos and disrupt people's lives. Others...well not sure about them maybe they are lost and trying to find something bigger than themselves to be leave in.

American Dreams

This really ticks me off BIG TIME!

American Dreams,

If there is one thing that the Right Wing cannot stand - it is the Truth.

This really ticks me off BIG TIME! Who the hell do these whiners think they are? They have the right to protest but no way does that give them the right to block others from going to and from work or their homes.

What has "ticked" a massive number of American off is the arrogant sense of "entitlement" that the wealthy greedy Lords of Wall Street, in the Big Banks and in Corporate America have. These money-grabbing hands felt so entitled - to other people's property they stole Americans INVESTMENTS, PENSIONS, RETIREMENTS and HOMES! What nerve these greedy "already fortunate" Kings have.

Who the "hell" do these elite Kings think they are?

The wealth that these White-Collar Scam artists stole is the problem - not the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators.

Please do not put the cart before the horse.

Who the hell do they think they are to cost the city the major expense of controlling their rag tag protest and take needed law enforcement officers away from other areas.

Who the "hell" do the felons on Wall Street think they are to have caused economic chaos in this country and to have brought ruination to the lives of so many people?

You have the nerve to talk about the expense to the city of New York.

The bill for the police - should be mailed to all the Wall Street firms that colluded in defrauding millions of American Citizens.

Wall Street is in New York City.

They have accomplished NOTHING of value and certainly have not changed a damn thing on Wall Street...

The Occupy Wall Street Demonstrators have accomplished much - much more than the obstinate progress-blocking Right-Wing politicians sitting in Washington.

Because of the demonstrations, banks have DROPPED their plans to charge their customers - and you might be included - monthly debit card fees. Because of the Occupy Wall Street Demonstrators, pressure has been put on state Attorney Generals to seek Criminal prosecution of these corner office thugs.

These brave young women and men have also magnificently changed the public discourse and political narrative in this country.

Thank you O.W.S!

Just a lot of incoherent buzzing, movement and filth in their wake. SWAT them into the history book of failed causes.

Yes, the demonstrators have made much noise.

Because they are determined to bring about positive change to America - the world is noticing and forming Occupy Wall Street protests of their own.

Oh MY - what an intelligent young group of people they are!!!

[they are] as welcomed as an invasion of houseflies at a family picnic.

The financial scammers in our Corporatocracy would be as welcomed in most people homes as "a colony of ants and termites" would be.

YOU ARE NOT REPRESENTING THE TRUE 99%, you are representing what your Deomcratic puppet masters tell you to and no one else. Drink deep the kool aid and eat the chocolate pudding if you must, but play time is over...time to become an adult and pay your way like the rest of us do daily

40% of America's wealth is concentrated in the hands of 1-2% of people in this country. The bottom 80% of the country's household income - is less than the 400 wealthiest families in this land. 99% is a good representation of where many American families are - economically struggling!

play time is over

"Play time will only be over when Americans vote the Right Wing out of political office.

The GOP/Tea Party Right-Wing policies - have caused the American Dream to become an American Nightmare!

Dustin-4456291

@theCavalier

I agree with the quote only the Civil Rights movement had a purpose, to create and build something better, racial equality. THe had a clear vision and idea on how this would come to be. The OWS is directionless, hell bent on destroying without offering something better or something at all to be critiqued. All I hear is the 1% should pay their fair share. Ok what does that look like? How will you impose it? What is a fair share? This is what I mean all I hear is make them pay their fair share, offer solutions, not new problems

Dustin @thecavalier,

The Civil Rights movement could be keenly focused because it was RACIAL discrimination that was preventing African American from fully assimilating into society and from progressing. Thus the great Civil Rights leaders could mandate that Race not be used to discriminate in employment, housing, education, transportation, etc.

The Occupy Wall Street movement has varied problems that stretch across racial, ethnic, education, income, class, political and social barriers. Thus, the issues that Occupy Wall Street face will involve a different strategy than the 1950's/1960's Civil Rights era.

O.W.S. leaders need to form a concrete team of leadership and initial goals - so that the movement can continue to go forward.

Look, people!

The question is not what I want, what the guy sitting next to me wants...the question is: What do YOU want?

Whatever it is, get it in here and add your voice to the mix! YOU know this crap is broken, right? Then get in here and add what you want to the list! We accept ALL voices. Don't listen to the media to get a defined outlook from me and my friends. Get in here, find people who agree with you, start a working group.

Once we have all the voices, we can come to a consensus, and figure out where to go from here. But we can't do that until the voices of the 99 have been heard!

So quitcherbitchin' and come add to the discussion!

Boycott and protest.....everything! Rah! Pfft.

And that will lead to OWS getting jobs........How?

Where do these writers get their information? It's earlier in Boston than it is in NY? Since when?

Boycott corporate everything.

Is that what they were doing when they deposited their funds at Wells Fargo??

Some people will talk your ear off about patriotism and freedom, but it scares the hell out of them when they see people trying to practice it in real life. Patriotism and freedom aren't football, or Chevy trucks, or bull@!$%# wars for empire, or unquestioning worship of the lords of commerce and their Republican and Democrat hand puppets.

People mock Occupy, saying they don't have a clear agenda. Get off your cyber asses and go to the Occupy physical sites or websites rather than the mainstream media and you'll find out what their agendas are: enact meaningful campaign finance, so that corporations can no longer control politicians; re-enact regulation of the finance industry, so that corporations that are "too big to fail" don't get bailed out by you and I; decrease funding for the military (currently greater than the rest of the world's military funding combined) and direct some of that money to our local communities or let us keep it in our pockets; re-enact meaningful anti-trust laws, so that there's real free market competition again instead of monopolies exploiting consumers; etc., etc.

The difference between Occupy and the Tea Party is that the Tea Party allowed itself to be co-opted by Fox News and the Republican party. It became about nothing but "smaller government." And smaller government came to mean nothing more than ending any assistance to the poor who might actually need it. No attention is paid to corporate welfare, which dwarfs assistance to the poor.

Smaller government by itself does not equal more freedom or prosperity. In the form that's endorsed by Fox News, it means a return to the robber barons of the late 1800s and early 1900s. The Occupy folks aren't demanding communism, they're just resisting our decline back into feudalism. I'm hopeful that people will eventually see through the mainstream media spin and figure that out.

Unlawful assembly is when there is a protest without proper legal Permits.

if you ask 20 of these idiots what they stand for you'll get 20 different answers...3 things are going to put an end to OWS...December, January and February

John D, you're one of the most patient, reasonable and well-expressed voices here. If only the OWS haters would thoughtfully reply, instead of spouting vile talking-points and ignorance, the conversation might actually go somewhere. Thank you for trying; you give me hope.

Willing.Sniper

The first amendment gives people the right to peaceful assembly.

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. Retrieved from

ala.org/ala/aboutala/offices/oif/firstamendment/firstamendment.cfm

So do you agree that requiring people to have permits to assemble is a law? There is no such thing as unlawful assembly, because according to the Bill Of Rights, there should be no laws to impede people from peacefully assembling.

define peaceful..define my rights to work and live nearby and not be disturbed by them breaking the peace...define wasting my tax dollars to watch over them and then having to pay MORE taxes for these people to 'peacefully' assemble...can you do that

Olygirl

There are restrictions on freedom to assemble.

Freedom of Assembly Clause restrictions

The right to assemble is not an absolute right. There are some restrictions on this right as there are with other rights. The right to assemble is not as strongly protected by the government as other rights, such as the freedom of speech. This is because groups that assemble often do so, not with just speech, but with some type of conduct, such as picketing, protesting, marching or gathering in a park, which may disrupt the peace.

The courts have ruled that, while it is the responsibility of the government to protect the people's right to assemble, it is also the government's responsibility to keep the peace. Because of this, the courts have allowed governments to make reasonable restrictions on the time, place and manner of these assemblies. The government may place restrictions on the right to assemble that will maintain law and order, facilitate traffic, protect private property and reduce noise congestion.

Read more:

http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/freedom-of-assembly-clause.html#ixzz1cHs37Gka

My God Davidson have you got Ed Schultz in your back pocket. How long did it take you to write that long unintelligible mess? Not as long as it took me not to read it I bet. Try not writing a book next time. You can write your manifesto later. And ...Mr Independent.... please by all means pass your zen along to us so that we may see the light. Show us the way. Teach us not to be vile and ...and.... Yeah right

Thats just it, OWS has stopped being peaceful by vandalizing property and blocking traffic. Blocking traffic can be a real safety concern. What if the police or firemen couldn't get to your house because OWS was in the way? Would you support them then? I'm all for everyone having their say, but you can't enforce your rights by trampling on others.

Boycott corporate everything.

.....he says while typing on his MAC. Because THAT'S not made by a corporation. Comments like this are one of the many reasons OWS will not be taken seriously.

Peaceful Assembly does not mean they can violate laws and run amok. It means make your point and then leave.

Thank you, John, for understanding what is truly at stake here. This is history repeating itself, but I do not think most people have learned their history as we did at one time in this country. What is happening in the Occupy movement is nothing new. It has been done over and over throughout the ages and throughout the world. Hold people down until they have no hope and cannot feed their families and you get a revolution, plain and simple. This is not going to go away. And the more violent the police become, the more people will join the movement. For a more modern example look to Egypt, Libya, and right now to Syria. You can only hold people down for so long.

A couple of weeks ago I went down to our local Occupy to see the situation for myself. My first surprise was how many people over 50 were there. Well dressed and of some means. Of course, the people staying in tents were mainly younger people. Older people just are not able to do so anymore. This does not mean plenty of older people are not helping, but in their own way. So thanks again, John. You have tried to tell the unschooled, but they just are not going to get it. Please folks, look up your history.

hey steve your an idiot

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION

it doesnt matter if its peaceful or not.lets keep it peaceful though.our forefathers also warned us when our government becomes corupt we must take action

@Steve-2081387

The first amendment gives people the right to peaceful assembly.

Please try to get a clue before you start spouting nonsense about the Constitution. The First Amendment does not give people the right to occupy jack shti nor does it give people the right to block roads or infringe upon the rights of others in any way.

The OWS crowd lost the First Amendment argument when the very first tent went up.

Peaceful Assembly and Protest does not include throwing Vinegar into a police officer's face. It doesn't mean you can sit down in the middle of a street and block the taxis and truckers - most of whom barely qualify as "middle class" - from doing their jobs, thereby costing them money you cannot and will not replace. Or are they planning to compensate those people? They have what, $500,000.00 in donated cash, from what I've read - time for them to pay the people they've now cost money with their antics. Those people did nothing wrong - do they even realize they're hurting the people they most need to back them, thereby losing that support as an angry taxi driver has to report he was stuck there and couldn't pick up fares, or an equally angry trucker has to report his deliveries never made it to their destination as scheduled and, if perishable, might very well have to be destroye, creating a bigger loss and resulting in higher prices? I don't consider that helpful representation of the middle class, I call it stupidity at its finest!

Steve 2081387

Thank you for your input I will read more about that. It just feel like everyone forgets that change and fighting for what is important can be inconvenient and annoying. We have gotten so used to our convenient lives with everything running smooth and uncomplicated. That is why a large number of people freak out when the status quo gets interrupted. I wish more people would understand the need for others to express themselves.

Freedom 72

That is why I said most were peaceful! Vinegar is far less damaging then the pepper spray that the police shot into the eyes of an 84 year old woman, a minister and a pregnant woman in Seattle.

In a supposed free society.. whom does one pay to be allowed to breathe?

I sure wish I could follow this thread all day and watch everyone comment, but I have to go back to my school work. I am a nurse. I am back in school now to further my education and receive my bachelors degree. For those of you who do not believe that protesting is right. Remember this, when I am on the front steps of congress fighting for your rights as health care consumers, I do it because I care about the citizens of this country. I will fight to make sure everyone in our country receives fair and superior medical care. Perhaps may be if you look at protesting from a different angle, you might see that it is a benefit not a problem.

Well said Olygrl! Thank you for fighting for my right for better medical treatment. Most of these posts I am reading hear are really sad and disgusting. The people that have jobs are complaining that they can't get to work...wtf is that...ever heard of sacrifice for a better life...oh that's right you have jobs don't you? Ever get hungry, ever need to go to the doctor when you're sick and can't because you can't afford it and the insurance is too damn high? Quit your whining and get out in the streets like a true patriot! Change does not come without sacrifice....vinegar does not equal pepper spray on an 84 year old woman and a busted & and bleeding head of a young man. This country needs change and the rich need to start paying their share of the taxes. Politicians are bought by the highest bidders and congress gets a free ride on insider trading! Don't tell me not to protest, it is my right as an American to speak up. Corporations are making more than ever but refuse to spend it. Millionaires want to pay their fair share but Congress won't hear their pleas. Why? Because Congress doesn't want to pay more that's why. You crying, whining people should shut the hell up and join the fight...give me liberty or give me death!

Support small business only.

THANK YOU John Davidson.The SMARTEST and most COMMON SENSED PERSON on this board!

Well said, John Davidson. Let me just add a quote from a great man from the past:

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley, 1964

DUMP Bloomberg; bring back Rudi Giuliani.

Saying those people already have jobs and they should stop whining is ridiculous at best. Yes - I have gone hungry and yes, I haven't been able to go to a doctor because there was no insurance. I didn't blame anyone else; I worked to rectify those problems. Why should the taxi driver or trucker have to sacrifice for someone else? You aren't fighting for them when you keep them from doing their jobs, you're just taking money out of their pockets that they won't get back.

And - fighting for your right to better medical treatment? Olygrl is going to get her degree so she can make more money in our incredibly overpaid medical field! Doctors and nurses look in at you, shrug, and leave. Doctors you don't even know stick their heads in to your room, say 'hi' and add their name to your bill as a 'consulting physician'. Want an aspirin? Have someone sneak you in a bottle, if you ask for one, it's going to cost you about $5.00! Maybe the protestors should go protest in front of hospitals and doctors offices! Olygrl isn't doing a damn thing to help you - she's doing it to increase her income.

As for getting out into the street to change things - you first. You're sitting on your butt on a computer ranting and raving; what's your solution to the problem? What do you intend to do - beyond protesting - to correct the situation? What ideas do you actually have to offer towards changing the status quo?

And I think you should remember what happened to the last person who proclaimed "Give me liberty or give me death". He got the latter. If that's what it takes, is that the sacrifice you're telling us you're willing to make? Then go for it. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke out your @ss. I guess you're one of those mostly peaceful protestors, Jezzabelle.

John Davidson, good post and all...but again, the problem with me and many about the OWS is that the movement has done nothing to actually address these issues. Standing in a street yelling, talking, and sharing ideas does not equate to actually getting anything done. It does not equate to getting the right politicians into office, stopping robber-barons, or decreasing money for the military. I support most of the ideas they support, however I do not support blocking average people from going to work everyday so protestors can simply "voice their opinion". All the protest does is the magical "spreading of awareness" which makes everyone warm and fuzzy, but doesn't mean a darn thing.

OK, I along with many people here get your point. We see what you want. We see the vast changes you are demanding (and that the country really needs). I however don't approach a problem by yelling at someone. If I want to change something, I approach with a solution. If you can't do that, the correct response is not "yell until we figure something out". I look at the OWS and just shake my head, not because I disagree with the cause, but because camping out, sitting in a street, or resisting cops is something I would have thought was effective in 9th grade when my school changed the uniform rule.

I am an art activist and try to get art into my community through a variety of efforts and opportunities and the last thing I would ever do is just go to the gov. building and demand "better art for the less-fortunate!" IT DOES NOTHING, they don't care and its really a lazy excuse for trying to change anything.

You don't change the channel on the TV by sitting in the middle of the room yelling at the remote. You go, pick it up, and press the buttons. Until the OWS puts forth ANY plan, process or solution, they are going to be the kid sitting in the grocery isle cuz he doesn't get the sugary cereal...eventually he'll move on, just like everyone else.

The comment above that mentioned that some of the protesters were well dressed adults maybe around 50, is sort of implying that then the protest has legitimacy.

I think many have forgotten that the baby boomers were comprised of many pot smoking hippies that yes went on to have real jobs and many of them have resurfaced when they see a protest they cannot ignore. Many did not give up their pot smoking days at all.

A few years ago, a college professor turned substance abuse counselor admitted to me in private that he smoked so much weed when he taught he later heard himself taped and realized he made no sense at all. It scared him straight. He gave up the weed and focused on getting others off the stuff and cleaning up their lives.

About a week or so ago, a 50 year old teach in CA was interviewed about her involvement in the protests. She looked very nice and yes she was well dressed. However what she said was very disturbing and why nobody should be measured by how they look. She clearly stated she wanted civil disobedience to begin immediately and it was time to storm the buildings and make things happen. So inside that teacher facade of 50 or more, was a very angry militant.

@Freedom4Everyone

Support small business only.

Kind of like the protesters are "supporting" the small businesses that have lost thousands because of the protests? And how exactly are you able to access the internet if you're only supporting small businesses?

Sniper, the 1st Amendment forbids laws that interfere with the freedom of assembly. Permits are unconstitutional.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

theCavalier

Where do you live?? I need a place for my brother to stay. He wont do any harm to your properity. He'll just park his RV in the street and run an extension cord from your house to his RV. Of course he won't pay for anything either,you see he is one of the 99% and doesn't have a job. So please send me your address so he can have a Peaceful Assembly in front of your house.

OH. I almost forgot. He is armed so his 2nd Amendment Rights apply without restriction or Permits.

Look, people!

The question is not what I want, what the guy sitting next to me wants...the question is: What do YOU want?

Whatever it is, get it in here and add your voice to the mix! YOU know this crap is broken, right? Then get in here and add what you want to the list! We accept ALL voices. Don't listen to the media to get a defined outlook from me and my friends. Get in here, find people who agree with you, start a working group.

Once we have all the voices, we can come to a consensus, and figure out where to go from here. But we can't do that until the voices of the 99 have been heard!

So quitcherbitchin' and come add to the discussion!

cdahl: At this juncture, it isn't so much about jobs, aight? They had their chance to create some jobs. In 2008 they got a bailout, and the theory was, that we bail these guys out and they can turn around and do some investing in the country, which was going to grow some jobs. Well, they didnt do that. They didnt do it, the gov didnt hold them to the promise, now the whole damn thing is coming down. If you think it ain't? Well, you can be like one of those deer-in-the-headlight tories in 1787 spinning around going "whaaaaa?"

It may take a minute, and it definitely isn't going to be done following asinine laws and rules, and your only option to hope that it is performed in the way you think it ought to be done is to join in, throw your at and your ideas in the ring and let's see where it goes.

But it is going to get done.

Even other cops are starting to speak out:

Ray Lewis: Retired Philadelphia police captain arrested with Occupy Wall Street

REBECCA SEIDMAN

Published: November 17, 2011 1:43 p.m.

Retired Philadelphia police captain Ray Lewis was arrested early this morning in New York City after taking part in an Occupy Wall Street demonstration….

http://www.metro.us/newyork/local/article/1027362--ray-lewis-retired-philadelphia-police-captain-arrested-with-occupy-wall-street

OWS video: NYPD arrest Philly police retired captain Raymond Lewis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R_YOZIujNg

Police Capt Ray Lewis Joins Protest: Says Police Are Corporate Mercenaries!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QoNP5RhKnE&feature=related

BE AWARE! The Occupy movement is attempting to hijack the Tea Party by saying that the tea party is joining them on some event's. Here on their website in Atlanta they are trying to say the tea party will join them in a march on the federal reserve. These are the dirtiest of trick's by the lowest of the low. Don't be suprised by anything these people will stop at nothing and try to destroy anyone or anything that stand's in their way.

From looking at the "Slideshow"; they all look like vagrants.

So immature, most haven't even lived life yet. Do they know how to save money or make money for their future.

Meanwhile, they are busy taunting Wall Street, of which the majority know nothing about--and made them obese for a while.

Their next stop should be Protesting McDonald's where their parents (or some have none) took them for a Happy Meal. Then they would be happy again--watch the fat calories, though--I am sure they do not know how to read side labels for content..

This Protest as mentioned before is all too crazy. They definitely are looking for a word from President Obama--where is he---are these protesters the ones he wants voting for him---Total irresponsibility for all parties involved.

Someone in the crowd is going to get their head cracked open from mobs of people fighting each other.

Too many fringe people in the US---they need work and structure--this is one total waste of a human being's life.

Correction:

Please ignore the last words in the 3rd sentence. "made them obese"--Aye--another mia culpa moment!

theCavalier,

Congress didn't pass a law requiring a permit to assemble, THAT was done by your City Council, and they very much have a right to do that.

harbek

In a supposed free society.. whom does one pay to be allowed to breathe

I think that would be Al Gore.

They have a right to Free speech, and a right to assemble, but ONLY when those rights don't interfer with others rights. When their "assembly" tries to block others on their way to work or wherever, It's no longer a peaceful assembly. It's disturbing the peace.

I must be one of the POOREST of the 1% because thsee people don't represent me.

The Soros and Obama paid Union thugs and Communist anarchist are not protesting because they want jobs, they are mad that Obama hasn’t given them the Socialist country that he promised.

The OWS movement accepts money from Unions, so I guess that means they have been taken over by the the Unions, oh and lets not forget about George Soros being behind all of this. This is the goal of Soros, get the people rioting in the streets. Wake up people you are puppets of George Soros and the rantings of the great Sal Alinksy.

Some of you posters should go to Iran. They deal with protesters the same way you think we should in the United States.

David,Sounds like the voice of an expert in selfishness and greed. You must be a banker or a politition .

Maybe you're right. I mean, with these protestors representing no less than 150 million Americans, it really is easy to view them as greedy, but not the banks, corporations, and the rest of a corrupt 1% that's been screwing them for years.

Sounds legit.

Occupy.

You would be wrong at that, but that's par for the course of the occupy protestors who represent no one but themselves ... greedy, inconsiderate little bastards ...

Oh, please. One of OWS's main objectives is to stand against corporate greed. There's a difference between being greedy yourself and refusing to tolerate someone else's greed.

"Wall Street" is no doubt thrilled - takes the media eye away from their failings for awhile. Until Europe further roils the DOW.

OWS needs to petition for a national referendum in 2012 - get "Term Limits for Congress" to the vote - surely it would pass.

Yea sure, but what you don't realize is that they are also hurting the tellers, secretaries, and small wage employees that work for these "horrible' corporations. The people who are just trying to make a living. People who are paid an hourly wage, and when they are told to go home because it is dangerous, guess what, they don't get paid! So these people who think they are doing so much good are really just hurting the good people out there trying to make a living!

While that's a fair point nel, guess who also doesn't care - the corporate employer. Now, does that justify OWS's giving cause to the early send-home? It does not. Do I still side with those sitting among OWS who hurt innocent bystanders? I do not.

That said, anyone who thinks corporate greed isn't a problem - one that OWS is trying to highlight so it might be dealt with - needs to take a look at some BofA fees.

David... they represent the policeman that spray pepper spray in their eyes, they represent families getting their possessions taken by banks, they represent every man and women getting screwed by an unjust corporate system. They're standing for a greater meaning. your sitting in a cozy chair. Stop bitching

BOA's fees are the problem? How about not using BOA? How about using a local bank that won't charge fees? Tha is what free enterprise and freedon of choice are all about.

Too simple for you?

In case they haven't noticed, BofA is in deep doodoo and is more or less waiting acquisition.

you forgot to mention "lazy"

The protesters are against corporate greed and they show this anger by keeping people who DO have jobs from getting to work? I don't get this at all.

OWS is getting more and more ridiculous every day.

Well at least they make for a better comedy show than anything Hollywood has come up with over the past few years.

That said, anyone who thinks corporate greed isn't a problem - one that OWS is trying to highlight so it might be dealt with - needs to take a look at some BofA fees.

Is this why Occupy Oakland just deposited their money at Wells Fargo? It's a free market if you don't want to use BofA don't. Bank somewhere else, there are smaller regional banks and credit unions that'll be happy to hold you money but if you want the convienence of a national bank then put up and shut up. It's a free market nobody is forcing you to use a bank as opposed to the underside of your mattress.

The thing that I don't get is that Obama received more money from WS than any other canidate but he's apparently cool with the Occupy crowd.

David, that's what nonviolent action is about. Any form of nonviolent action aims at changing the social structure through a community of people that embody one perspective. It's so strange to read your angry comments and even more erratic to imagine Occupiers as greedy. We should be celebrating the fact that people are taking action and deviating from their everyday lives for social change.

Sorry Chris, but I've got to say you are just as clueless as the 1%. And I'm not referring to Wall Street. Just getting out and saying "this sucks" accomplishes absolutely nothing. Take a second to let that sink in. This is a bunch of petulent children complaining because life sucks. If you want change, you have to take action. And protesting for months without any clear objectives is less than doing nothing. It just enforces the view that they are a bunch of petulant children.

I'm against corporate greed too. Guess what I do? I work hard, earn my money, and use small local finacial institutions to manage it. I will never use any brokerage company or bank bailed out by our government. If the 99% all did that, wall street would be gone within a month, or adapt to our demands.

I'm also against the abuse of children, so guess what I do? I educate my children on how to avoid bad situations, and work in my local community to make it safer for children. I don't just squat on the sidewalk, sh%$ing on the ground and complain about how child abuse sucks.

Get a clue. If you want to change the system, you have to do it within the system. Anything else would require armed revolution.

Since I have a BOA credit card, and had it since before they started these fees and I do not agree with the fees, I should give them a fee of my own, max out my card and walk away from the debt, let them shop around the free market for someone to pay it.

Chris: I love how OWS keeps saying they represent x# or % of the American population. Guess what? They don't represent me. I'm in the 99%. Very little, in any, of what OWS "stands for" is appealing to me.

Cool with the Occupy? He does not say crap anymore. He does not leave the White House into public. He knows that more than likely he will be the next JFK if he does. Heck people are already shooting at the White House.

He is just trying to play neutral now to get the votes.

Just like they stopped the Tea Baggers? Damn right wing fascists want corporations to run big government, wouldn't anarchy be truely small government? No government, no Hiarchy I know the right wing loonies and fascist capitalists need Hiarchy so they can think they are better than someonelse, truth is if you shoot a rich person and a poor person in the head, what comes out looks pretty much the same.....

Chris - last time I checked BOA did not have a monopoly on the banking world. If you don't like the fees, don't bank there. It is as simple as that...

Chris, as one of the fabled 99% OWS does NOT represent me.

The Only things I've seen OWS accomplish is to violate others rights to go to work unmolested, getting arrested and destroying private property. Nothing I will follow.

Frank your wrong...BOA wiped its $5 debit card fee before it even put it into action....and if you max out your card and walk away they'll just take/repossess everything you own...you Nazi pachyderm.......I'm laughing at this article like most left wing nuts as usual these people scream equality and freedom but they have no plan and hate anyone that disagrees with them

Mark-1219747

Cool with the Occupy? He does not say crap anymore. He does not leave the White House into public. He knows that more than likely he will be the next JFK if he does. Heck people are already shooting at the White House.

He is just trying to play neutral now to get the votes.

Actually I think it is more along the lines of him enjoying the fact that the OWS crowd has taken the heat off of him somewhat as the Solyndra and other "green" loans are being unearthed and investigated. Funny how all the companies who had big time democratic campaign donors were all given fat loans. But no one is talking about that.

@Chris Stadtfeld

Maybe you're right. I mean, with these protestors representing no less than 150 million Americans,

No less than 150 million? Guess again, Even the Tea Party has more popular support than OWS at this point. Only a third of the country still supports the movement so you're off by about 50 million Americans.- http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-favor-fading.html

I will give you credit for not spewing the "99%" nonsense anyway. That is assuming you actually know how many people live in this country of course.

@David-717708

These people are a major nuisance and need to be dealt with. Why don't they do something constructive to help the situation? Too selfish and greedy, I guess.

Are you referring to the banks or the protestors?

You folks are goofy. Out of all the things Chris Stadtfeld had to say, all you can retort is "changing banks too simple?" Every bank is the problem. Our entire financial system is based on what? It is not gold and silver anymore. It is based on a guy standing over you with a gun saying "the money is real". Those of you who grab on points like "hey you can change from wells fargo to chase" aren't looking at anything these protesters are saying. You are looking at what the people to your left and right are saying and puking back up on your screen. I want to give everyone (even the lefties) a project. Look into your "opposing side" idealisms. We will all learn something. We have to unite. This bickering is only making things worse.

Well put rwalker

I will not have to buy tickets to the circus this year. Gettin a free show everyday.

What would happen if the protesters were occupying the space between their ears?

Ever notice how each of the cops are as fat as a donut shop ad?

Don't NY Police do pushups?

"David,Sounds like the voice of an expert in selfishness and greed. You must be a banker or a politition ."

or maybe he's just a brainwashed teabagger that worships Rush Limbaugh

Cassandra, such a petition already exists, in many places, in fact. Google it, and sign it.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement.

Stang Sallie the only problem is that the same thing happens with republicans in office as well. they give those free loans out to their big contributers also from our tax dollars.

we have to face the facts both the democratic and republican parties are corrupt. we will continue to get ripped off of our hard earned taxes by both these parties.

I'm really enjoying all these narrow minded folks talking about how protesters are the problem. Sure the whole "We are the 1%" speech is completely inaccurate and waaaaaayyyy off, if you're looking for the 1% look at how many Americans are twins or something similar.

Anyways, I love hearing people who think they have no problems complain about people who express theirs. Boy, who would think that maybe this country was founded on such ideas as free protest anyways? Want to talk anti-Americanism, talk about these dults who have issues with people expressing free speech and looking to cause change with means other than payiong off their government officials with bribes and "Campaign Contributions" Because god knows..those are what America is really about.. Bribery... Buying... Hatying people who don't have the means to do this...

waveriderj, you wrote: "Because god knows..those are what America is really about.. Bribery". Well, maybe it's this too.

THE “GREAT AMERICAN NIGHTMARE” 9/28/2011
The Economic disaster that is now hitting the US and most of the World is a necessary step for mankind's Noetic-evolution. --- Why? --- I just read, at newswine, that 93% of Americans still believe in “The Great American Dream”. If you are one of those believers you must first be convinced by a painful “US Economical Cataclysm” (and great VIOLENCE) that it cannot be realized, because it is an “extreme case” of a duality and must turn into “The Great American Nightmare” instead . However, if you are in the 7% bracket you are innocent and will only become “collateral damage” with the same result. Sorry about that.

( Just say after me: - Eli Eli Lama Sabachani? )

Don’t know if I can explain this to you in this short post, but let me try. Consider how this “Dream” got started in the first place. Most immigrants from Europe were “poor peasants” all being subject to the mercy of their powerful Land Barons and the Government suporting those. What lured these pesents to America was a good chance to become a land owners themselves and also as rich and powerful as their previous suppressors; basically reversing their status. It’s a complete role reversal and if one side of this duality is considered evil, so is the other. To day, this wishful dream-process has become true for only 2% or 3% of all Americans, namely for the Millionaire stockholders and their CEOs. All the rest of us are now again the “suppressed peasants” of old times. We have “recreated” these times again by clinging to our dream-like illusion.

BODHISATTVA (by Dick Suthpen).
The silence is broken by the s-s-wish of the Samurai sword severing illusions - and it rolls across the floor leaving a bloody trail of -- ~--~~-^_~~ -- ~--~~-^_~~ truth

Stang Sallie the only problem is that the same thing happens with republicans in office as well. they give those free loans out to their big contributers also from our tax dollars.

we have to face the facts both the democratic and republican parties are corrupt. we will continue to get ripped off of our hard earned taxes by both these parties.

I whole heartedly agree. Never said it didn't happen with Republicans too.

Brutis, it's hardly appropriate to call Peter a "sicko hate monger hater" when he's pointing out the blatantly obvious. Seven hundred protesters is not an overwhelming number.

Your rudeness degrades your own point, not Peter's.

they have to start somewhere.

thank you for that comment!

It will grow. Remember, the later events are going to be bigger still.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

"sicko hate monger haters" gets 10 days suspension?? I've seen a lot worse than that on here!

BE AWARE! The Occupy movement is attempting to hijack the Tea Party by saying that the tea party is joining them on some event's. Here on their website in Atlanta they are trying to say the tea party will join them in a march on the federal reserve. These are the dirtiest of trick's by the lowest of the low. Don't be suprised by anything these people will stop at nothing and try to destroy anyone or anything that stand's in their way.

Brutis Bear

Who are you more MAD at?

Sandusky or OWS?

Brutis Bear,

The Right Wing is more MAD at Occupy Wall Street.

Remember, Sandusky makes (or made) lots of money - and money is the only important matter to too many people.

...remember - its money before people!

David-717708 Comment collapsed by the community

These people are a major nuisance and need to be dealt with. Why don't they do something constructive to help the situation? Too selfish and greedy, I guess.

I see you OWS supporters are busy collapsing comments that don't agree with you. David's comment has at least 32 votes up and many others would have voted it up had you not collapsed it. The same goes with many other comments that disagree with the OWS tactics.

But you just can not STAND it when someone calls it what it is: a failed movement with nothing changed (including their underwear) or productive in the two months it has been making the liberal news headlines. It is nothing more then tiny handful of irrational, self-serving thugs disrupting the rights and activities of the true 99%-ers.

Their right to free speech and peaceful assembly ended when they threw the first rock / bottle and spit in the face of a policeman, broke windows, set fires and negatively affected the lively-hood of the small businesses around their Obamavilles.

They do not see how they are being manipulated to take focus off Obama's failed administration and polices. VERY slick of Obama and the Democratic agenda...mind control for the masses...okay correction: mind control for the few. The masses are feed up with the romper room behavior of the OWS. You don't like the way things are, throwing a temper tantrum won't change things. You need to work within the system and within the constraints of the law.

Unlawful assembly is when there is a protest without proper legal Permits.

the laws behind 'unlawful assembly' were designed to keep people from protesting. a protest is not a parade or an entertainment function. do you think for a moment these cities would have granted permits for a 'parade' to point out corporate greed within our own government? isn't funny how all the cities that have major 'occupy' events all get together in the same time frame to try and put them all down simultaneously?

u only need a permit if u block traffic or a road.u dont need a permit to assemble

The Founding Fathers didn't apply for permits.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

OWS are not "protesting" they are having an unlawful assembly.

"Unlawful". As in against the law in terms the Supreme Court ruled.

Unlawful assembly legal definition of Unlawful assembly. Unlawful ...

"Unlawful Assembly" ( OWS)

Meeting of three or more persons may constitute an unlawful assembly if the persons have an illegal purpose or if their meeting will breach the public peace of the community. If they actually execute their purpose, they have committed the criminal offense of riot.

So you say. I contend that the Supreme Court was over-reaching when they gave states the right to regulate a Constitutional right. This fight needs to be re-fought. The erosion of our civil liberties is part of the problem under scrutiny now.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

When the "Lawful" assembly starts to infringe on the rights of others, it's no longer a Lawful assembly

yes and now we have to pay again to clean it after all the OWS dirt bags crapped and pissed all over it great job!

What do you mean "part of the solution"? There has never been having the solutions. The congress, parties, and the politicians in the government are only caring about their own benefits. Have they ever care about Americans? If they do, they should have been cooperating and working together to get the work done for Americans, not fighting against each other only for the party's benefits.

for all the years of free
maintenance “gimme’s” on the tax payer’s dime!

Tax payers dime? You mean the taxpayers who ARE ALLOWED TO USE THE PARK? They could put up an 8 foot chain link fence around the entire thing, closing it off completely, and then there'd be no need for any sort of maintenance. Typical OWS BS, let the people use the park just don't ask them to maintain it. Gimme, gimme, gimme and God damn you if you ask for anything in return.

My, my, Brutis Bear!

Not only did your use of the fonts improve, but your topic suddenly became a little more relevant!

However, as is typical of all of you 50 cent pro-China propagators, you still don't quite have the hang of American English, especially in the matter of verb conjugation.

I'm beginning to wonder if subtle foreign influence might be affecting OWS.

The solution starts when the squeaky wheel is heard by everybody.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

The OWS does not have superior "rights" and do not have any legal authority to hassle others or deny THEM of their rights to go about their business.

The 1% doesn't have superior "rights" and do not have legal authority to deprive the 99% of their Constitutionally guaranteed right to protest, rally and free speech. When there are huge inequalities, rallies, protests and free speech are the means we have for addressing and changing the disparities.

Exactly Sandi-468930.

These protesters are part of the problem, not the solution. I have yet to hear a solution to their whining.

I see by some of these posts that the OWS crowd likes to use the Constitution to their benefit, and by their own interpetation, despite evidence to the contrary.

Reduce military spending by 50%? Are you kidding me? Why not reduce spending on social programs by 50%? Since the OWS wants to spout the constitution, where in the constitution does it say that the Government shall pay for social programs? HMMMMM? It does say that the Federal Government will provide for the COMMON DEFENSE, read, the military. Before you put down the military or the military industrial complex, most of todays modern technologies has come from that industrial complex. So think twice about getting rid of something that has made your life a little better today, before it throws us back into the stone age. And in case you have forgotten, the outside world, re. the rest of the world, isn't as peaceful as you think. There are still idealogies that don't like US.

Affordable healthcare, hmmm, you know I went to the doctors just two days ago, got a check up, have an ear infection, got my prescriptions, got two shots, and it cost me $125. Pretty affordable to me, Of course Im a relatively healthy person, despite the fact that I've been smoking for 39 years, (also got a prescription for Chantix).

By the way, can any of you OWS people give me a job? Ah of course not, I never got a job from a poor person. I am a contractor, I contract to a corporation, that has work from another corporation. I make on an average of $2500.00 a week, I get paid for my skill sets. And I dont have a college degree! Imagine that! of course, Ive been in the work force for 35 years, building those skills sets.

The OWS crowd doesn't want to work for what they want. It is immediate gratification is what they are after, and want the federal government to give it to them. It's not the way it works.

Is there corruption in our government, yes there is. Can't deny that. Can we fix it as a nation, yes we can, it's called VOTING. Don't like the politician , vote them out. We have elections every 2, 4 and 6 years.

I can't help but think, that this OWS crowd is nothing more than minions of the current administration. His pledge was to fundamentally change America, and since he hasn't been able to do that, the movement started. It is also funny, if it wasn't so sad, that this movement as started by a Canadian!

I am not part of the 99%, I am not part of the 1%, though I strive to become part of that 1%, that is what I was taught, to strive to become successful, by hard work and my own merit. And by the majority of these posts on here, I think that the majority of Americans, aren't with you either.

So good luck in the coming winter months, Ill be nice and toasty, earning a paycheck, by working and making a difference from within.

CL...I don't see the 99% protesting. I see a group of Unemployed malcontents looking for a free right. As one of those of the NOT super rich, they don't represent me at all. The problem is in Washington, not on Wall Street. If they want REAL change, thats where it has to begin.

Vote for Term Limits on ALL National Polical/Government Posts. 2 terms for House and Senate. 8yrs MAX for Supreme court appointments. Get rid of the Professional Politician. Get rid of the ridiculous Perks and Pensions. ANY laws or rulings they set down apply to THEM as well as us. Any pay raises they receive should be based on the same calculation as the one used for SS increases.

Get rid of that, you will be rid of the majority of the problem.

LOL - I agree. My question to everyone who is supporting OWS is what DO they want? And I don't mean generically - if a magic wand could be waived, what physically - right now - today - do they want the "1%" to do? Start cutting checks? To who? Lower prices? Go out of business? Makes no sense....where did these people buy the clothes on their back or their cell phones???

Frank's "More than half of them don't even know why they are there."

Betcha it's more like 99%.

They know why they're there: to avoid working and paying their bills.

More than half of them don't even know why they are there.

....and the other half doesn't know where they are.

@ Frank and a69: People mock Occupy, saying they don't have a clear agenda. Get off your cyber asses and go to the Occupy physical sites or websites rather than the mainstream media and you'll find out what their agendas are: enact meaningful campaign finance, so that corporations can no longer control politicians; re-enact regulation of the finance industry, so that corporations that are "too big to fail" don't get bailed out by you and I; decrease funding for the military (currently greater than the rest of the world's military funding combined) and direct some of that money to our local communities or let us keep it in our pockets; re-enact meaningful anti-trust laws, so that there's real free market competition again instead of monopolies exploiting consumers; etc., etc.

If you cared about your country and its posterity, you'd be adding your voice to these calls in whatever way you're comfortable with, rather than defaming the messengers on internet discussion boards. The Occupy messages are healthy and correct. If you don't like the way the messages are communicated, fine, find a better way. And, while you're at it, share your proposed strategy with the rest of us.

Bear in mind that writing letters to corrupt politicians won't work. Neither will trying to run principled political candidates who won't be able to compete in media visibility with corrupt candidates who are funded by corporate power. Let us know what you come up with.

CLODS ... they're there because the wealthy are NOT paying their fair share ... and DC is, for the most part, protecting them. Taxes are the LOWEST they've been in 50 years. How much lower do you want them to go? You're entitled to all the profits you can handle but when Wall St. is profiting at the expense of Main St. and the other 99%, maybe you don't think that's a problem but many others do. The 400 richest Americans control more wealth than the next 150 MILLION ... maybe you don't think that's f**ked up, but others do. If low taxes create jobs and taxes are the lowest in 50 years why isn't the economy BOOMING? Because that's yet another crock of BS that's been fed to you by DC and the corporate sector and you've swallowed it.

Yeah...uh John....Doesn't change the fact that 99% of them still have no clue why they're there

Brian, I've visited with many of them. Most of them do know why they're there. And many of the others are learning more about the complexities of the relevant political and economic issues by listening and participating. They're getting out of their houses, away from their tvs and learning from their fellow citizens in the equivalent of the founders' public squares. This is a good thing.

Brian, which Occupy locales have you been to and how many occupiers have you spoken with that brings you to this BRILLIANT conclusion? I will bet NONE and ZERO. Open your eyes and ears if you really want to see and hear; otherwise, go away. You're not doing anyone any good.

Do you know why they are there?

paste to your browser this is what is at the OWS and not on main street nedia

Who cares why they are there ! They are costing these cities masive amounts of money to police and clean up after. Instead of working within our system of laws, they want to act like anarchists and disrupt eveyone.

the link works or just go to youtube and look for number 1 idiot at OWS

Try here.. oh and be sure to check the GLOBAL REVOLUTION channel while you're there:

Independent, which have you been to, the one in Oakland where they broke windows and started fires or the one in NY where they threatened to burn down Macy's and wanted all Jews to be kicked out of the country. The original OWS had their points , these new protesters are completely useless and hurting the cause.

Office working Americans seem to have missed getting consciences. I wish you would find yourselves in Gitmo bay, not being listed as being there, and not having any help getting out. I wish you would find your salary halved to pay for your CEO's christmas bonus that is more than you will ever make. I wish the police would beat you for saying what you believe is right.

Sorry, newbies can't post links. Most of the people here ranting against OWS showed up around the same time as OWS. Interesting, eh?

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

wlee where do you get that they want to kick all jews out of the country? are you truely that ignorant of what is going on. recently they had the participation of the celebration of a jewish holiday in OWS. with many non - jewish people joining in solidarity for it. i was there and it was a very moving time for me, seeing many people of diverse religous backgrounds supporting another groups beliefs. gave me alot of hope for how this world can be without hate.

well said, Cavalier

Definition of POWER. Getting the whole world to go along with something that in your heart you know is not True. aka Fake News and RepubliCONS

Is anyone surprised the Paid Wall street Bloggers are once again all over any and all stories having to do with the OWS Movement? Fear is the Mindkiller

Click on the names of many of the people who Trash MSNBC website you find that all of their comments are negative and follow the same Republican/ Teabag Line.

Fake News along with corporate America, Wall Street, and the Republicans are in league to trash any article on MSNBC website to make democrats think they have no chance of winning thereby supressing voter turnout

They are here to stay and there is nothing we can do about that except VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You Paid Corporate Bloggers need a new “strategy” because The Truth is now out There

Correction: You don't care why they're there. Not enough people care why this movement is happening, and they should.

Gosh you must have a HUGE phone bill from calling all those people.... I bite my thumb at you sir.

Look, people!
The question is not what I want, what the guy sitting next to me wants...the question is: What do YOU want?
Whatever it is, get it in here and add your voice to the mix! YOU know this crap is broken, right? Then get in here and add what you want to the list! We accept ALL voices. Don't listen to the media to get a defined outlook from me and my friends. Get in here, find people who agree with you, start a working group.
Once we have all the voices, we can come to a consensus, and figure out where to go from here. But we can't do that until the voices of the 99 have been heard!
So quitcherbitchin' and come add to the discussion!

LOL, yeah, it's broken because O'Dumba took office. Socialism will destroy what's left of this country. OWS will never have the support of the majority of Americans that are sick of the "far right" telling us how we have to live!

Wonders which Frank fears more? The people that do or don't know why they are there. One thing for sure Frank the oldes female Occupier has a bigger set of balls than yourself!!!

drl

if we fallowed your reallity we would be still ruled by england. please dont' call your self american if you truly believe what you say.

It's too bad they don't arm themselves and show just how much they believe in whatever it is they think they believe in. This would be over in a few minutes and we could carry out the garbage.

So Frank... I guess you feel any type of police/military personel is not necessary?? So here's an idea!! Let's just have everyone do whatever it is they want and not held responsible for anything because no one is in charge to keep order... Nor will anyone have the colunies to step up and stop the maddness. Gee I guess that's why they started putting sheriffs in charge back in the day... to stop the shootouts in the middle of the streets... Get a life Frank!! The problem is there is no longer respect for anything or anyone..... security/police/teachers/parents.. this country is coming apart at the seams... AND.... Why isn't the president getting involved in this??? He has gotten involved in many other things that he should not have. There's the problem. MARCH ON DC AND ALL STATE CAPITOLS>>>

OWS should arm themselves with automatic rifles and armor piercing rounds, then the darn pig cops wouldn't be so brave. Better yet send in the national guard to protect the protesters from the police thugs...

People like this.....are why I will never take OWS seriously......and why I own a gun myself. Wacko.

frank is a moron

Frank wrote:

OWS should arm themselves with automatic rifles and armor piercing rounds, then the darn pig cops wouldn't be so brave.

It would take way too long to try to teach the OWS which end of the gun the bullets come out of.

Frank

seek psychiatric help immediately

your rage and anger are kind of frightening....

@Steve-2081387

yea but it would be a self-correcting situation, and we could hand out a LOT of Darwin Awards

You see, it just goes to show, America is free, until you step on a rich person's toes.

We've heard this statement until we don't even understand it anymore: Freedom is never free.

OWS is fighting for freedom. I support that fight. It never ends. Get complacent, and the freedoms are taken away, as we can now see very plainly. The fight will continue, because the future of the citizenry is at stake. We overthrew the owner/slave relationship before, we'll do it again.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

I don't like Franks "picture" depicting himself for his page--

When are Swastika's allowed to be included in a person's picture they have chosen to post?

It is very offensive to many Americans, whether Democrat or Republican.

Franks picture isn't the problem. After all it's just a picture. Though a picture of some of the occupy police getting some sense smacked into them would be a better picture in my opinion, wouldn't you agree?

I can see you are just going to post the same post over and over ...

He is rather limited...

So the cops should beat these people yet protect Westboro Churches hate speech? Are you really that stupid, or are you just susceptible to FoxNews' Jedi Mind tricks for the weak minded?

I fully support any person who is willing to try to change a broken system. Protesting is the only way the greedy bankers and polititions will listen .

You are naive...they won't listen no matter how much you protest! Grow up man!

@ Brutis

OWS WINNING!!!!

Um yeah, just like Charlie Sheen, right? Fitting that your avatar is just a bunch of flaming cow flatulence!

Michael, I fully support their Freedom of Speech. I support their right to protest, even if I think the protest is stupid. When they try to stop others from getting to their jobs, starting fires, destroying private property, THAT is when I stop my support of them.

Janine

You and a lot of other people also.

I love these brain-dead posts. First, they complain the OWS protesters want free hand outs.. then they offer to spend their very own tax dollars to completely support the OWS protesters by having them all thrown in jail.

Three meals a day.

A roof over their heads.

Better health care than even their own families receive.

Hmm... makes one wonder what is wrong with everyone.

The only people being hurt are protesters, and cops stupid enough to put themselves in danger. Some citizens are being inconvenienced which is a long way from being hurt. Since America has become so soft it can't deal with marchers in the street, we should consider this a service; toughen up, and deal with it, join it, or protest against it. Whining on a message board is a pretty lame response to people that are putting their bodies on the line for what they believe. That's a truly American activity.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all." Mario Savio, Berkley 1964, civil rights movement, for freedom to protest.

harbek, you forgot to mention the one big thing the protesters lose when in jail, FREEDOM.

I will gladly pay to prevent someone from taking away my freedom.