Taking responsibility is good, but where were they when they should have been teaching him better to begin with? It may not be the parents' fault, per se, but there is nothing impressive about their parenting all the same.

Well, first of all, sad, we don't know for a fact that he did anything. It's that whole annoying "innocent until proven guilty" thing in our legal system.

Maybe he grabbed her or something - not totally out of the realm of possibility for a 13-year old boy. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong. What I am saying is that the fact his parents took him in sort of suggests that he probably was raised pretty well.

For another thing, it's a little hard to believe anybody could rape someone in a McDonald-Land play area without somebody noticing. For example, the 5-year old girl's grandmother.

As usual, there's probably quite a bit more to this story than MSNBC is going to bother finding out or telling us.

Parents can't watch their children 24/7, anyone that thinks that doesn't have kids of their own. I'm impressed as well that the parents took him in themselves instead of hiding him. They did the right thing and the fact that the boy admitted it speaks well for their parenting. It was a deplorable thing to happen, and I hope that little girl gets the help she needs, as well as the boy. Kids make mistakes, this one as a horrible one, I'm surprised no one saw the rape occur but I'm glad they are taking responsibility for the actions.

Miker... actually the news had a few more details.. not graphic but still descriptive. He used his fingers and made her use hers on him.

We used to call it playing doctor, but then again, the age difference is a bit much. 13 to 5.

A charge of rape requires penetration, folks. Charging he with rape says it all.

We used to call it doctor when it was the same age and only I'll show me yours if you show me mine. Good for the parents - gives me a little faith.

Devils son Read the news link. Someone is calling it rape. Not sure if finger penetration qualifies. From the location and description it sounds like hands down pants... I sort of doubt he dropped trousers in playland at mcdonalds.

Devils son Read the news link. Someone is calling it rape. Not sure if finger penetration qualifies. From the location and description it sounds like hands down pants... I sort of doubt he dropped trousers in playland at mcdonalds.

Any type of entry is classified has rape, in a court of law..

I'm shocked, amazed, beside myself, in total disbelief, and tremendously befuddled...that the parents actually did the right thing and made their kid face the appropriate consequences.

@-Sam: I'm not really into criminal law, but I believe you are incorrect. Digital penetration may be sexual assault but it is not likely "rape." So, if rape is what the DA/police are charging him with, case closed. Not guilty.

Sam Depends on the jurisdiction. Military calls any penetration other than penis to vagina SODOMY. Rape by definition is defined as penile penetration no matter how minute.

Ohio defines rape

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

(A)(1) No person shall engage in sexual conduct with another who is not the spouse of the offender or who is the spouse of the offender but is living separate and apart from the offender, when any of the following applies:

(b) The other person is less than thirteen years of age, whether or not the offender knows the age of the other person.

So by definition in Ohio it IS rape.

Everyone who is saying that the boy may not have "rapped" the little girl are crazy! Did you read, "Authorities say teen admitted to attack after parents turned him in." ?

Durrf!

if he has been CHARGED with rape, there must be evidence thereof, period.

Local news reported that the boy admitted to digital vaginal penetration to the police, and also admitted that he forced the girl to digitally penetrate his anus.

The boy thinks he is guilty of rape.

That's really all the evidence I need.

The parents of the boy sound like "good parents" who had probably done their best with their son. They must be heartbroken. I'm so sorry for the little girl, the lad, and his parents. Hopefully, healing can be found.

That poor little girl...a 5 year old has no clue about sex. That litle girl has been put through so much.....physical pain and she has to be mentally hurt.

mhmmdsux said;

"I'll show me yours if you show me mine"

Uh huh. Got it.

DURRRrrrrrrrrrr.......

Do you think before you type?

Do you read what you typed?

Apparently you do neither.

@Vivian: A 5-year old has no clue about sex? You must have grown up in a monastery. All my friends and I knew at least as much about sex as this story involves by the time we were 5. Nobody told us about it - we had all the parts right there. It was just natural curiosity.

The really sad thing about this is that our society's attitude about this whole issue will probably do more harm to this little girl than anything the 13-year old boy could possibly have done.

@ Miker....what?? i didn't even anything about sex til i was 12. and even then, my priority was to have fun (in non sexual ways), not stick my fingers into every opening i could find. some people actually have some innocence and arent constantly exposed to **** like that when theyre FIVE!!!! maybe your circle of play friends at the time pressured some type of curiosity, but kids dont do anything that doesnt feel good. kids that age (13) hardly begin puberty! how many of them go around poking and prodding everything to fulfill their curiosity??

i honestly think that was a sick little boy. regardless of sexual stance or peer pressure, even children have a conscience. they know clearly when someones sad, happy, angry, etc. if this girl was not happy, he knew that. no 5 year old girl is going to voluntarily stick a finger in a lil boys anus (as local news reported).

The fact is that this boy DID do something inappropriate with the girl ... regardless of speculations as to whether he did go all the way or not or whatever, he did something wrong and he needs to bear the punishment for his actions.

I am also impressed with his parents for turning him in, the boy has some issues that need to be dealt with now ...or he will just get worse .....what a world we live in!

Sadly I'm not shocked. I wish I could be, but with so much sexual content on Television and people don't monitor what children watch today he may know more than most adult could even imagine.

I certainly hope people will realize that they have to teach their children right from wrong and start monitoring what they watch, where they are and what they are doing. The responsibility of raising a child belongs to the parents not the school system or the TV.

Robert21220 if he has been CHARGED with rape, there must be evidence thereof, period.

By your definition anyone charged with anything must have had evidense thereof and is guilty period. Just one question, how about all those people found innocent due to dna testing and released with a BIG oops, sorry?

They can charge him with attempted murder if they wanted to. It doesn't mean anything when the DA charges somebody with a crime because I have seen them pull out the big charge when there is no way in hell they are going to win in court. Further more since this kid is 13 he will be tried in front of a judge and not a jury and that makes a difference as well.

Most laws on the books can only be charged against 18 or above and yet a DA will still charge minors with these crimes even though the crime specifically requires that the accused has to be 18 or older. This is the advantage of not having to present your case before a jury.

In the end the parents will pay $10,000 for a decent a lawyer who will plead him down to a class 1 misdemeanor where he will either go to a center for sexual deviants or be released to his parents with close monitoring into a treatment program for several years.

He will no doubt register as a sex offender. No idea on the limitations for that but it will carry on in his record and well into his adult life. Even if he follows the straight and narrow (which is entirely possible for someone his age) he will be marred for life, more than likely it will follow him to his death in seventy years.

The girl will rebound rather quickly just because of her age. Amazingly thing about little kids and how they can put horrorific events behind them so quickly. No doubt she will need to be seen for a few years and not allowed to forget about it. Her family should be able to sue the boy's parents for damages. Not sure how much they could get. They might even be able to sue the McDonalds corporation for lack of better security or providing the enviroment for which the girl was assualted in. Of course who knows if that would work. I guess if you can sue over a cup of coffee being hot, your childs safety should get a few bucks as well.

If i was the parent, I would not afford him a lawyer. I would tell him I love him, but he has issues that need to be settled while he is in Juvenile detention with state payed councillor. I would put as much of it on him as possible so that when he does finally get out, he would seriously think twice about sexually molesting anyone again. As for the little girl, best thing is to have her see a competent therapist for a few sessions to make sure she is ok and then drop it. If you make her dwell on it, then she will most likely have issues for a long period of time. Parents should monitor her actions without bringing it up and see if she goes back to normal or starts to get withdrawn.

@Devil's Son if you ask a rapist and a molestor if they see the difference between rape and molestation chances are they will say no. The traumatic damage to the victim is the same. Further, penetration is considered rape.

As a parent how do you even begin to wrap your head around something like that? What would cause a 13 year old boy to commit such a hideous act?

wow-i'm not seeing the THROW him in jail with bubba response! where would children learn so much too soon? yet they have no fear of doing things that they see all over our new open society! it seems the more open sexual things are, the more the limits are pushed! the rich don't have to go overseas to commit this acts anymore. this new society is coming to your childs street or it may already be there and you just haven't noticed! talk to your young as early as you can! they will understand some of it, but keep up talking and you will learn and teach!

should have been teaching him better to begin with?

It's hard to tell without interviewing him by a psychologist. He could be a sexual abuse victim who was never identified and counselled.

Another thing. You can't control every propaganda that a child will run into. Some magazines below the quality of Playboy depict women being forced into sex.

A good case for practicing censorship the way the Chinese do, who do not allow filthy propaganda to infiltrate the moral standards of impressionable young minds whose parents are competing for control of their children's moral standards.

Good teachings are developed by parents, but more importantly societal norms which are better understood when societies like China censor filth.

You give me 30 seconds and I can show you women being forced into sex on the internet, but not in China where the internet is censored for public safety.

Gold....China doesn't censore for morality - they censore for control...which apparently you are under.

I hope for his sake, he's a tough 13 yr. old because he's going to find out, in little people prison what it's like to get penetrated.

Parents can't watch their children 24/7

If you have to watch your 13 year old so he doesn't rape a 5 year old you've pretty much failed as a parent.

Glad the parents did the right thing.

I sure as heck hope this boy gets treated and sentenced like an adult.

Gold....China doesn't censore for morality - they censore for control...which apparently you are under.

Another vote for censorship as I fail to understand why it's impossible to state an opinion without hurling insults.

I think it's more effective to state one's ideas about an argument rather than throwing the "you" word around.

I find that as I use the "you" word less, people listen to and respect my ideas more.

Further, you combine a sexual abuse victim who was never identified and counseled, or raised within a faith group with high sexual standards, with an uncensored internet and magazines below the quality of Playboy, and I will show you a young man who even with the best of parents who could possibly be mind conditioned into raping someone and not thinking it is wrong.

After all, if it were wrong then the United States government like a good parent would censor the internet to reflect the law and morality like China does.

Watch any rated R movie in this country and you can find people engaged in consensual sexual conduct outside of marriage that violates the United States Code of Military Justice.

This country is bound to be confusing to any 13 year old.

Carolyn G As a parent how do you even begin to wrap your head around something like that? What would cause a 13 year old boy to commit such a hideous act?

Ever hear of the internet? If a 13 year old saw things on the internet and wanted to try them out, who would he go to? Not someone his own age, but someone he thought he could manipulate like say... oh i dont know a 5 year old?

Gold~ While I do agree that China censors more for control then censorship, I will also agree that a person can counter a point without resorting to insults. If you have to fall back on an insult to get an opinion across, it's not an opinion to take seriously.

Watch any rated R movie in this country and you can find people engaged in consensual sexual conduct outside of marriage that violates the United States Code of Military Justice.

This country is bound to be confusing to any 13 year old.

The UCMJ only applies to military members, which is .5% of the US population. So I don't really understand why you're bringing it up. 99.5% of the US population don't have to follow it. A thirteen year old can't join the military, and I'd be shocked to find one that knows what the UCMJ even is, let alone know what article 125 is.

Personally, I'd rather have an open internet than a censored one. No amount of "But the confusion!" will sway my opinion on it. Yes, you can't find porn online over in China, but you can't find out what happened in Tiananmen Square either.

Sally

Personally, I'd rather have an open internet than a censored one. No amount of "But the confusion!" will sway my opinion on it. Yes, you can't find porn online over in China, but you can't find out what happened in Tiananmen Square either.

I agree 100%

and I'd be shocked to find one that knows what the UCMJ even is

Some of that 0.5% do have children and I am VERY certain quite a few 13 year olds have been lectured beyond their years in what the UCMJ is. Especially since some of that 0.5% has faced some form of judicial process under UCMJ. Please don't be too shocked when you ask a military brat what the UCMJ is.

If I asked a random child what the UCMJ is and they told me, I'd be shocked. If they then said their parents where in the military, I would no longer be shocked. Point is, military children are a very small percentage of children. It's not common knowledge what the UCMJ is to the average citizen. So I still don't understand the point goldfish was trying to make.

However, I would still be surprised if they knew what article 125 is. Not many parents, military or not, are going to tell their children "Now remember, article 125 of the UCMJ says not to participate in oral/anal sex!"

Yes they are and it TERRIFIES me.......

WTF moments have always happened, at all times throughout history. But now they are reported on a 24 hour news cycle.

Humans are no better or worse now than they always were. Unfortunately, humans are also pretty @#$%ed up

Yes DarkHouse we are

We are what? @#$%*ed up? Or we are worse now?

We aren't worse, just when things like this occurred in the past they were discussed on a community level so one would hear about it except for once maybe in 5-10 yrs if at all.

Now they occur at the same rate but the media brings a new story out from a different place every day. Thus it seems like it is happening constantly.

As far as proof that things haven't changed much. Look at ancient Greece and Rome, where sexual relations with younger children and even animals was socially acceptable.

Kudos for the parents for stepping up. As far as playing dr goes, it is developmentally normal for children of closer to similar age to be curious and explore. The difference and imbalance of power here is too great to be written off. Given society's tendency to aver-react, still not sure if what happened warrants the charges or not as not enough details have been released.

yup , another WTF story.

what is going on ?

movies , Internet , kids learning from adults ?

YES WE ARE WORSE!!!!! This boy no doubt had access to pornography. Online porn IS having an affect on society-- get your heads out of the sand. It isn't because the news is more available-- geez, people , what's it going to take to make you open your eyes. Get your head out of the porn-- before you have porn induced erectile dysfunction...

Jimmyjimmy... and playboy, penthouse, hustler have been around for years. It took the Brady Bunch to break the ice on TV and the flood gates opened. The Soap Operas have been nothing but sex since they opened on the RADIO. Before radio they had peep shows. Even the bible speaks of bad people and that is at least 4000 years old or more. The news is just more willing/desperate to report it and in our 24/7/366 always on world more people hear about every corner of the world and every little torrid detail. Had this been 20 years ago it would barely be a regional story. Had the police not needed the public to assist in identification of the perp it may not have even been local news.

Porn has been around alot longer than playboy, hustler, etc...there are ancient drawings, books, writings all thru time, just yes is may be more accessible and different taboos are being broken, but I do think that we just hear more bad news, over and over and over, to the point that it is sometime inescapable...I mean the Penn State thing, turn on the radio , tv or computer and it is right there...

One could even argue that most children in the US are even more shielded from sex and pornography.

After all, few children in the US are being sold into sexual slavery, as was common throughout the world and is still common in some areas of the world.

Few young men are being loaned out to prominent politicians and friends of the family for sexual favours, as they often were in the Ancient Hellenic world.

Thankfully, there is no longer socially acceptable child sex, at least in the "civilized" world. But, within that aura of safety, complacency can settle.

I grew up in the 60's and we all played house and doctor starting at age 5. There was no sex on TV back then. By age 7 I found Playboy and Hustler magazines in the alley that fell out of trash cans. Messing around with each other was a common thing in my neighborhood and any other neighbor I would visit with my parents.

Cassivella, are you freaking kidding me?!?!?! children in the US are even more shielded from sex and porn??????

What rock have you been living under? Maybe you should turn a TV on, or go to the store and look at the covers of the magazines, or open your eyes or ears up just a little bit!! Sex is used to sell everything from push up bikinis for toddlers to deodorant to tires, and that is just the stuff on billboards, and popular media.

Our children are "shielded" from EDUCATION about sex, and there is lots of adult denial about sexuality and general freaking out (look at people going nuts about the HPV vaccine-and I am not talking about those who do not vaccinate as a general rule, people are freaking out because it is recommended for girls aged 9-13 and is for a sexually transmitted disease), there is plenty of mixed messages that are given that are not at all explained or even acknowledged by many people (like the message that the female body is something to be used as a tool and depersonalized, that females are inferior to males, and so on)...

Few children being sold into sexual slavery, as to your three examples is not sufficient to support the argument that children in the US are shielded from sex and pornography. They are shielded from acknowledgement of themselves as future sexual beings, they are shielded from education about how to deal with the new feelings that they have and the things that are happening ot their bodies, they are shielded (more often than not) from frank and open discussions about the more awkward things that are going on, they are shielded from discussions about how our society uses sex as a marketing tool and some of the messages that are sent through that are really quite disturbing...but shielded from sex in general...the evidence of watching one evening of primetime TV, or going to the supermarket to buy a loaf of bread and looking at the Cosmo and Seventeen and so on at the checkout line, or driving in the city and seeing the billboards, simply do not bear that out.

Re; Sex on TV

It seems today,
That all you see,
Is violence in movies,
and sex on T.V.
But where are those good old fashion values....

On which we used to rely?!
Lucky theres a family guy!
Lucky theres a man who,
positively can do,
all the things that make us...

laugh and cry!

He's a Family Guy!

Actually, the number of incidents like this, along with many other crimes, and death by violence (including war), are at an all time low world-wide. The difference is that horrific stories like this draw your attention and "news" is instantaneous. Your perception is that it is happening more. The reality is that you are simply reading about it more.

Sex crimes are nothing new and were never on the rise.

yeah because @!$%# like this didn't go down back in the day right? right? right.......

Are you people forgetting that they are teaching kids as young as 5 about sex in school? How to put on a condom at the age of 9?? Obviously you don't watch Fox news because it was discussed months ago at great length. Ask your kids, all ages, if they have had sex ed yet. In Ca they now are going to learn how to sodomize someone because they need to learn about gay sex too. Of course this is only for Junior High and High school, not the grade schools, yet!!

Until I was 21 I thought gay sex meant happy sex. You know like I had such a gay time etc.

@saneincali can't tell if you're being sarcastic or just plain dumb

saneincali

First it's an interesting screen name. But ignoring that. Perhaps in Cali they are teaching sex to children that young. Cincinnati is about smack center bible thumping. Storks still deliver newborns.

I agree with Darkhorse, for the most part.

I think there has always been 'bad behavior' and pathology in our human history, but way back then, the people who were doing this stuff were unable to hide it as well because the groups were smaller (even in the larger groups, or villages).

For example, there is a native American Indian group (can't remember which tribe) that used to kill adults who were caught molesting children. If I remember correctly, they were considered to be witches, or controlled by evil spirits, or something to that effect.

Anyway, I do think that now that our societies and human groups have gotten so large that it's easier for people who do bad things, well, to do bad things without getting caught that is.

I know that a lot of people are against having cameras all over, and no one wants people policing our tech/computer communications etc. but I think if it is done to control 'bad behavior' that takes, limb, life and property, or other damaging behavior then we may want to rethink this.

I know, it's a slippery slope to do that but we are past 7 billion people on earth and, well, keeping people with bad intentions in check could not be more difficult in such circumstances. Any other ideas?

How about no, at 13 he KNOWS the difference between right and wrong. Rape, murder, robbery are not accepatble COMMON behaviors in any teens life and they should be held, just as responsible as an adult, for those type of behaviors.

a couple of examples: two boys the same age, both achieved leniency (albeit, differently) with the criminal justice system because of their age, and that's where their experiences stop. One is black, the other white, one poor, one middle class, one single parent, one married parents, one in the United States, the other England, one receive new identities, the other was notorious.

BOTH CONTINUED TO COMMIT HEINOUS CRIMES AFTER BEING FREED BECAUSE OF THEIR 'AGE'...

Lionel Tate

karisable.com/ymltate.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Tate

www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/national/02tate.html

or Jon Venables, this guy had a new identity and went out to commit new crimes

www.telegraph.co.uk › News › UK News › Crime

karisable.com/mbulg.htm

lwtc247.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/jon-venables/

Any one of any age who commits a crime like that against a young child . I believe they should be hung by their gonads . At least untill they rip off or the rapest dies which ever comes first . Maybe our forefathers had it wright. Punishment in the public square .

bob

Steve W., following your post's on here it seems like you are perhaps a person who had sexually assaulted someone in the past yourself. A whole lot of " it might not be that serious" in your talk. At any rate, not cool to condone someone of any age doing that to a little girl. I was 13 once, and you know what you are doing and that crap like that is wrong. If you didn't then I guess you are just another pervert

D McMillen - you're a defamation lawsuit waiting to happen.

Hung by the gonads if he had USED his gonads. It sounds to me like just finger play. 3rd base? But with a 5 year old girl? Honestly!

My first question while reading this article was "Where were the adults when this was going on?" When my kids were little I took them to the Mcdonald's play area too, but I watched them like a hawk. If they were out of sight I was right in there looking for them. It sounds like, from the little information given, that non of the adults there with the children were paying much attention to what was going on.

not placing blame but grandma was NOT watching and more than likely the boy was on his way home from grabbing some dinner or dessert. That particular McDonalds is on the main street in the area with residents in the surrounding blocks. Grandma was probably keeping an eye on the door to the area but not the child(ren).

Steve how about NO! You are crazy. NO normal 13 yo wants anything to do w/ a 5 yo. This kid is disturbed. Trust me I had a newly turned 6 yo boy lock my 5 yo daughter in his bedroom (at a playdate where I was in the home), close the windows, try to go to 2nd base and french kiss her, told her he would beat her up at school if she told anyone. Thank GOD she did tell me that night. Guess what??? That same boy at age 10 was kicked out of school for bringing knives etc... Sad, but it is what it is. Why should innocent girls like my daughter suffer? I guarantee that boy will in prison some day:(( That said parents, don't be naive. This happened at a playdate I was in the home for w/ a known family who had a "good" reputation. Be on your guard at all times.

If I had to guess, this 13 year old may have been sexually abused himself...

Yeah, its too premature to judge the boy. Sure, he did something gravely wrong and must pay the consequences for his actions ....but a holistic approach must take place. One has to look into why this happened? what is his family like? is he mentally normal? etc etc...He is 13, old enough to know what is right and what is darn right wrong....hence suffer consequences. But there is another side to the story.

As for the girl, i hope the parents help her deal with the trauma that she has been through ... She needs to know that what happened is not her fault and that she is still as precious as she was before the rape.

If he did this he should just be shot in the head and written off. He will never be a productive member of society if this is what he's doing at 13. Harsh? Too bad. These pigs are getting younger and younger. Stop it now. Don't let him reproduce. What a piece of crap he is. Why let him grow up into a bigger, stronger piece of crap???

Lizzie,

Yes shoot him... unless he is your child?

To tell you the truth, I can say right now, that I don't think I would have any trouble removing my son if he was already showing signs of being a monster. Having no son, and a daughter who has never raped or murdered anyone, I THINK that is what I would be comfortable with. Nobody knows what they'd do unless the situation presents itself.

Lizzie, I'm not defending what happened. All the same at age 13 he should have been aware what he was doing was wrong, that does not mean mentally he was where he should be by that age. Also it always sounds EASY to say someone should die. It's not that simple to kill someone (hopefully at least) the first time. It would (again hopefully) be much more difficult to kill your own flesh and blood or allow it to happen.

kat88-better get your head out of the sand-my wife almost fell off her chair when my 5 year old daughter came home from her first day of school and wanted to know what F..K meant.

Wake up parents

There may not be much sex education in the schools, but there is plenty on the streets. Children are also reaching puberty earlier due to higher body fat. There are 10 year old girls getting pregnant. If a sex-obsessed 16 year old makes bad decisions, imagine how responsibly pubescent 10 year olds will act!

I didn't think most 13 year olds...

Really? Mom explained sex to me when I was 11. But there's porn EVERYWHERE these days. You can land on graphic porn sites without even knowing how you got there. Parental controls only work on your home TV & you can bet most 13 y/o boys are intensively searching for porn on their & their friends’ TV’s & computers. A parent can't always control what their kids have access to unless they’re following their every move 24/7. I don't like it. But that's our world today & look for worse tomorrow

kat88, when you say, "where did he learn to do that", unfortunately, the report gives us no idea what "that" was. As for his age; most 13 year old humans are walking, talking hormones. Procreation is one of the most powerful and primal drives in we humans. Nothing will ever change that.

Society hasn't really changed that much, it's just under a more all encompassing magnifying glass: the Internet. The Internet can now cram 7 billion people's problems into an area the size of your computer screen. The kid screwed-up big time. Now, thanks to Draconian laws in this country he'll be labeled a sexual predator for the rest of his life. Certainly NOT condoning the boys actions, but this is quite probably a drive he's old enough to feel, but too young to understand.

Don't want to turn this into a anti-religious rant, but if parents and school systems could truly educate kids on the "facts of life" it could help alleviate these types of situations.

Kat. I was molested from age 5 to 7 by two boys who were 13 and 14. I'm now 37. It's been going on for a long time now. Chances are that those boys were molested also. I wouldn't be surprised if this kid was himself a victim. I'm happy to report that I've ended the cycle of violence that happened to me but many are less fortunate and perpetuate this vicious act upon others. I have empathy for the victims but contempt for the perp's.

My oldest nephew started having sex at 14. His girlfriend was 13. My husband's first sexual experience was at 13. My daughter will be 13 in a week, she knows what sex is and why she shouldn't do it right now. I remember full well that I knew exactly what sex was at 13... and younger. If you think kids these days don't know what sex is and how to do it at 13 (when they are well into puberty) you are extremely naive.

Kat88... really? Where did he learn to do that?

Do you see that screen in front of you? The one with the keyboard under it?

That's where.

"Society is failing our children." - Truer words may never have been spoken.

Kat88 see comment 10.6. That might just be where children learn things on the street about sex, drugs and a host of other things.

I only talk about dildos in the company of adults, and never on the street.

When I was 5 years old back in the 60's, we all knew about sex and how it was done. We played house and doctor all the time. All the kids did. I don't know how we knew this, we just did. I doubt it is any different now as was back then. Of course our parents didn't know we did this, although I know kids who got caught doing it. I'm speechless knowing that any adult didn't do that as kids or think that it never happened.

All those who are saying that this is simply a case of "playing doctor" or it is the same as everyone did "back in the day" or whatever. I am sorry, I was a kid once too and a teenager never, ever, not once used their fingers to poke around inside my body and I most definitely did not ever do that to anyone else, either especially when I was in elementary school!

THAT is what this boy has admitted to doing. "digitally exploring" her vagina and forcing her to do the same with his anus.

No, this is not normal behaviour, this is not anything that any of my circle of friends participated in when I was a child, either.

Try thinking back into your own histories. How and when did any of you learn anything about sex? How and when did you explore and experiment with yourselves and with others? Or will you claim a miraculous infusion of knowledge that was bestowed upon you at precisely the correct moment, when you had achieved the wisdom and maturity to deal with the ins and outs of social sexuality.

That the 13 year old stepped way over the boundaries of propriety is factual, by even his own admission, although his ability to make judgement, even of himself, is limited by his age and the lack of social/sexual experience.

None of us can be sure if this kid is pathologically deviant but I do know that if we judge him so harshly and address him and treat him as a deviant, he will surely become just that; for we will have taught him that he is and can be no other than what we have determined for him.

As for the girl; a sad thing, true; however the resilience of humans, especially young children, is amazing. If only we remember to let her return to normalcy without resurrecting this event ad infinatum and thereby assuring that normalcy is out of the question.

Those of you that are saying: Society is failing our children" are in fact blaming yourselves. While we do have the responsibility of teaching and protecting our children, we also have to look at simple facts. Children are exposed to everything from sex, drugs, profanity, and violence on a daily basis. It isn't TV or movies or music, it's in the home, school, and streets. I don't know anymore than the rest of the posters here about what happened, but I'll take a shot here and say that this young man needs counseling NOW to find out what is going on inside his head BEFORE this escalates into a lifetime behavior. Aside from the "Duh he's a sicko" armchair comments, there is something going on in his head to make him target a 5 year old. That needs to be addressed not written off, or excused away.

I don't think "society" is failing today's kids. It's their parents who are failing them and failing society. Too many single parents, gansgta attitudes, excuses, etc. Raise your kids or don't have them!!! These rotten, absent parents are failing society because law abiding citizens are the victims; little kids and adults alike. AND we get to pay for the skankbags while they're in prison. These kids would be better off in well-run orphanages than in their own homes.

My sentiments exactly. No one raises their child to commit acts of violence like this. What is our world coming to? Is sex really all that is on the mind these days? Young boys should not be thinking like this!

WorldTravel07:

Really? Throw him in state prison? Yeah he'll come out as a predator that you wouldn't make eye contact with much less say anything to, and all of his future victims would have you and the rest of the "act first, think last" crowd to thank for it.

It disturbed me..

Steve W:After reading all of your comments, there are idiots, and then there is you. You have won the Village Idiot of the week award. Wear it proudly idiot, you deserve it.

ANYONE who continues to say porn has been around for ages, and every other damn excuse for porn...is just addicted to porn themselves. Porn HAS been around for ages.... so why not push to get rid of it now??? Why do we continues to allow it??? You can be assured porn WAS/IS a part of this young boy's life! Somewhere/somehow it's been in his life. Quite excusing it's existence for YOUR won "pleasure". Kids in the U.S are taken everyday for sexual reasons! Porn fuels this demand. If you can't see it-- then you're blind! Am I being alarmist??? You can believe it! Just because it has existed doesn't mean it's right! Doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing all we can to rid our children of it! It DOES affect sexual crimes!! Prisons don't allow it because it escalates testosterone levels-- DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF!!!!

jimmyjimmy define PORN please. Is it that Victoria's Secret commercial that shows during the Superbowl? Perhaps the cheerleaders? How about the Oscars? The swimsuit at the beach park? The waitress at IHOP?

I doubt he would have been charged with actual rape had there not been penetration.

From the original report:

The girl told her grandmother that a boy digitally penetrated her vagina and that she was forced to digitally penetrate his anus, according to the incident report.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29723771/detail.html#ixzz1dR0rPH79

See this is the kind of BS news reporting I am talking about. All manipulative.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059910/Boy--young-13--wanted-raping-girl-just-McDonalds-arrested.html

The boy touched her and made her touch him. That is not rape. But we start describing it as rape and charge the kid with the crime of rape. The police report says the boy climbed into the play area specifically to molest her. Well lets get it straight people.. Was it rape was it a molestation. Innappropriate it definately is but calling it RAPE is a flat out lie.

Rape: any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

No intercourse no rape.. Quit over emphasizing things and getting people all worked up into a frenzy with your lies.

Steve,

If someone inserts a finger, broomstick, or penis into a vagina or anus without the insertee's consent, it is rape.

ok well see now that is different from what I was finding. of course it still is not sexual intercourse IMO and still not rape.. molesting definitely... I dunno... I suppose it does fit "any act of sexual intercourse"...

Steve,

Perhaps you would like someone to go grab one of those "Anaconda" dildos and insert it into your anus without lubrication.

Then tell me if you don't feel raped.

I bet the little girl did not know what rape or sexual assault was... But I have a 4 year old daughter and you better believe we talk about good touch/ bad touch and she knows that it is wrong for anyone to touch her private areas! And 13 is old enough to know his little *ss shouldn't be doing that!

I work right down the street from this McD's, and this news story has been all over the city here. Here's a local story from our city that gives a little more information: http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Arrest-Made-in-Anderson-Township-Sex-Assault/87pC7uTN40GI4_NsfsCYfw.cspx

In the last sentence, they say that he's being charged with Rape, category F1. Here is the tier system in Ohio: http://blueshifthome.com/Ohio/statute/OHIO%20OFFENSE%20TIERS%20with%20felony%20level.pdf

F1 comes under Tier 3...and unfortunately it doesn't give more of a definition. But from a lot of the news stories on TV, what they've described was that he grabbed her in an inappropriate manner and then he had her grab him in the same way. So he could have used his fingers to do the raping, as gross as that sounds. :(

Cass... that's a rather filthy idea you have come up with. Interesting you know this object by name... ;)

Thanks Psolaris.. I usually find the right story. but this time I was finding storys that said otherwise...

I am curious how a 4yr old knows what "sexual assault" is enough to accuse someone of it. Seems to me like there are a lot of details missing. Kudos to the parents for bringing in their kid to answer to the allegations but at the same time, SHAME on the parents for not bringing him in with an attorney at his side to protect any rights he has. If a 13 yr old raped a 5 yr old, that is despicable and he should be punished severely... but I would hate to see this incorrectly handled if it turns out to be more of a misunderstanding. Like others have said, how could a rape occur in a McDonalds play center without SOMEONE seeing SOMETHING.

If the girl had used the term sexual assault, those words would have been in quotations.

In all likelihood, the little girl simply told her grandmother the boy put his finger "down there" or something like that.

If you read the original report, you will see that the little girl didn't say anything and stayed in the play structure after the boy left. She only said something because Grandma asked her what was wrong.

It is the adults who call that sexual assault.

Hopefully, however, everyone teaches their children how to use words that will get the point across when someone does touch them inappropriately.

So Steve,

Did you figure out that digital penetration for a 5 year old girl would feel something like that?

Are you repulsed by this boy's actions yet?

There are many forms of rape. Be happy that the definition has been expanded.

After all, back in the '60s, men couldn't be raped, at least according to the law.

Does it f**kin matter if it was "real" rape or not.... a 13 year old boy has no business putting his hands on a 5 year old girl... and the boy admitted to the allegations... i doubt he would have done that unless he knew he did something wrong. People like Steve that try to draw lines making it seem like a lesser crime make me sick.

Cass your a tiger.. but I am still wondering in what drawer you store the "anaconda"?

The boy's actions disappoint me and make me feel sad on a number of levels. Being molested myself by an older boy when I was not much older than her. I can somewhat understand what she is going through. However, I wouldn't throw this boy in a furnace for his actions just yet either. He is still a human being albeit one in need of help.

Have a great day Cass! I'm off here!

Any unwanted sexual contact is sexual assault. But way to call a five year old who has been raped a liar.

The prosecutor can charge the teen with attempted murder if it was his wish but it's up to the court to determine the extent of the crime. I believe we should wait until all the evidence is presented in a court of law before making judgment. If he did perform the act and has owned up to it the issue should be settled in the court without any problems.

I hate when they try a person in the newspapers. No one gets a fair trial.

Steve W-- you need help- you're sick!!

Larry-- please join Steve...you need help too.. the boy admits what he did.

Steve W, what is it about the definition of the word rape that confuses you?

Google: "The Ohio Revised Code (ORC) #2907.02"

Patrick.. so they don't have to google... http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

Why don't you stop reading the paper and stay off the vine? The boy admitted it! Why are all your concerns with the pervert, and not with the little 5 yr old girl? What a way to learn about sex. She is the victim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diane, next Steve will be saying the girl was asking for it by the way she was dressed...

'Anaconda dildo' - hahahahaa!! sorry, found that part funny

Steve W...

Already at a victim's age 5 you are saying that the rape was the girl's fault.

I just don't understand you and your way of thinking.

jiminyjiminy

Larry-- please join Steve...you need help too.. the boy admits what he did.

Maybe it's you that needs help. Try understanding what is being stated. I realize that the boy admitted to it but just what was it he admitted to? What the reporter said he did or did he give his version of the story. We don't know what the boy admitted to the police. That wasn't reported.

God I wish people wouldn't jump to conclusions.

Legally, yes, it is rape.

A child admitted to sexually assaulting another child.

cass... steve is thinking...well, she did comb her hair, whats a guy to do?

Steve, please seek some professional help. You're a borderline pedophile yourself if you seek out detailed information on the rape of a 5 year old girl and then argue as to whether she really was raped or asked for it/probably encouraged it.

You are proud of them??? Get a grip. They raised this kid, or failed to do so, depending on how you look at it. Turning their kid in (which is not the same as taking responsibility, by the way) is the least they could do and not turn their failed parenting into a criminal matter for themselves. I would accept one approving of their course of action after the fact, as any other action would have been incorrect legally and morally, but I find it disturbing that you are proud of them.

Steve w & Ann P

I agree with each of you. You each make verry valid points. My biggest question is where did that boy get the idea to do that ???????? When I was 13 I was still afraid of girls .

bob

Bob. Look for my response to Kat88 above. 13 year olds doing this to other kids is not new.

I agree with Ann. Even good parents can have children that do bad things. Every human being is capable of doing things that are wrong/horrible/sinful....think of all the Nazis in WWII. Do you think all of their parents were horrible people that had zero parenting skills? I seriously doubt it. People, specifically children, can be easily influenced by outside sources that have nothing to do with a person's home life.

Sad: Lots of GOOD parents have sh*tty kids. It does not mean they raised them wrong. Individuals have their own thoughts and ideas about what they do in their lives. Lots of BAD parents have great kids even though they had no good role models. You get a grip! And Ann is right most people would probably try to protect little jimmy from trouble instead of taking him in to face the consequences of HIS actions.

The parents of the boy need to find out WHY he did this. I would suspect molestation somewhere in his past.

Also, isn't there a weight limit to those play areas? 120 lbs is WAY to big and someone at McDonald's should have been enforcing the guidelines that are posted there.

oh man I'm late to the Godwin party

But yeah, it's entirely possible that the parents were trying to raise this kid right. The fact that they actually turned him in says a lot to me.

We played doctor when I was 5, and did more when we were 13. I knew kids that were afraid of girls, and kids that were comfortable with girls at any age. We all knew what sex was and even attempted it, but it was hard to accomplish with clothes on. We never took our clothes off, so it was almost impossible to do by pulling your pants down a little. So basically sex was dry humping to us.

He was probably sexually molested as a child.

At 13 this kid has probably been exposed to so much sexual content. He might of been molested though that doesn't make what he did any less wrong. Kids are bombarded with sexual content on a daily basis. There may be more to this story in the end.

Tonya and the rest who ask "Where could a 13 year old get this idea?" There are 10 and 11 year olds getting 9 year old girls PREGNANT. If they can figure out how to do THAT, this (sadly) is not a stretch of the imagination. I grew up in a conservative small town (12000 pop) with most of the major religions represented. I would say by 5th grade(11 years old) the majority of boys and girls had VERY good ideas of what the parts were and at least were curious and "discussing" things. 4th grade even had spin the bottle and closet time. That was MANY years ago.

ANY ADULT out there who REFUSES to admit that they KNEW or had some clue at the age of 13 is a LIAR or was VERY sheltered. Liar in that you are put on a public shocked face/attitude. Parents... have YOU had THIS conversation with your child, age appropriate of course? I'm not saying show and tell or porn but there are books if you need help with the approach.

trust...wow...cool down..."LIAR"? I certainly understand you're upset about this story, but that is no reason to call anyone a liar on this message board when they state that they were naive at 13.

yes sparklystar.. they are being untruthful with themselves and or their statements. Presume they were naive at 13. At their current age looking back, surely they recognize/knew others their age at the time that were shall we say "worldly." Then to come here and proclaim that NO ONE THEIR age KNEW about such things back then. It became politically INcorrect in the late 1800's to discuss sex in America as people lived in cities but even then TEENS were getting married and having children. They were playing DR then also. The fact that most of us are here from parents or grand parents of that age tells us that THEY knew what SEX was. It simply has become non PC to discuss such things. As kids we were told of the boogey man and heard of BAD people they ran out of town or little Johny had been sent to live elsewhere for being "Evil" Nothing has changed beyond it makes national news instead of whispers among adults in the know.

Who here proclaiming that this is something NEW didn't know at least one girl in school that got pregnant? Who here can say they didn't know of a boy that they avoided because they KNEW he was all hands or worse while they were in 6-12 grades?

I never knew or heard of a girl getting pregnant in my school. Of course, that was a four decades ago. :)

You need to calm down and stop accusing people of being liars if their experience differs from yours.

Tonya, sometimes a kid is just a bad seed. This not something a normal kid would even consider, no matter how high their hormones are. He must not have empathy for other persons feelings. He may have been molested or he is just messed up in the head. Like I said, a bad seed.
If you look at the Mac's play areas, you will find they're many enclosed areas. they cover the beginning of the slides and tubes to prevent kids from falling of the sides at the highest points. Perhaps they should make then all out of see through plastic? If a pervert wants to appease his/her selves bad enough, they will find a way.
Rape is any penetration with any object, not just a penis!

trust-verify: boys and girls having sex has NOTHING to do with forcing sex on a child 8 yrs younger. Boys have lots of hormones and girls try to keep them as a boy friend. That has absolutely nothing to do with child sex abuse! Get a clue!!!

When we were little kids under age 10, you never forced anybody to do anything. You could just ask a girl if they wanted to "Do It" and they would probably say yes. We all knew how to do it, but usually weren't successful in actually doing it. No one taught us about sex, we just knew about it.

a 13 year old boy sticking his fingers in a 5 year old's vagina and forcing her to stick her fingers in his anus, yeah, no biggie. I'm sure it happens everyday in Oz, right? No big deal if it's a 13 year old, or a 29 year old, but if it's a 30 year old, now that's wrong!

You are sick, Aussie girl. Please don't procreate.

Malarkey! Regardless of his age, what he did to that 5 year old girl was flat out wrong, immoral, repugnant, and CRIMINAL no matter if he himself were a victim of molestation, or not. If this was YOUR daughter, niece, grand daughter, etc - would you then say it was a story? Would you have pity for the 5 year old if she were your flesh and blood? Would it make a DIFFERENCE to you regardless of the perpetrator's age? I doubt it.

More than likely the ONLY reason this made it to the news is a few days ago the police asked for help identifying the boy. Few outside of the girl and her family, McDonalds, and the Police knew this had happened until the request for ID. When the request for ID was made they were not sure it was a teen and were concerned it could have been a young adult. The local station in Cincinnati is an NBC affiliate. MSNBC should have done a better job of reporting or not reported it at all. Welcome to the WWW.

Aussie, How can you even think this is an innocent situation? Maybe this kind of perversion is normal in your family, but your family is not normal! The story is told so parents can be even more careful, and not trust others around their kids.
It Sandusky had been caught and turned in at age 13, just think of the victims that could have been saved from their years of torture!
You should turn yourself in, you are dangerous!

We all played doctor and house around age 5 or so. We also did it at age 13, but 13 y.o. don't normally mess around with 5 y.o's, but girls close to their own age. And we never did it out in a public place, but in someone's basement or garage. Something was wrong with that kid.

We all played doctor, but not gynecologist/proctologist, and not with someone 8 years younger.

Why do some of you posters, go right to this poor boy. Then as an obligation you mention your sadness for this little girl. Personally I don't believe in a cure for perversion. They may go into remission, but then their thoughts come back and rear their filthy heads. My first concern is what that little girl is going through, and will live with the rest of her life.

Diane, I'm not "mentioning the girl as an obligation". Everyone understands this was a terrible thing done to her. The boy is a child too, and deserving of compassion and help as well as appropriate consequences. Hopefully the whole story will emerge and the legal system will do its best. I don't know the whole story and neither do you. Jumping to the conclusion that a 13 yo is an incurable pervert is a bit premature.

Did you miss the part about the video surveillance? Or the fact that his mother turned him in?

Best we know from surveillance is the description of the person was in the McDonalds. I don't think they have video of the assault.

Exactly. Not to mention that the girl said he put his finger in her. That's sexual assault. Not rape. And, it hasn't been established that he did in fact sexually assault her. Did you miss that, o'really?

He may be guilty of something without being guilty of anything like what all you geniuses on here have already convicted him of.

It wasn't only MSNBC said it, the little 5 yr old victim said it, the 13 year old admitted it, and he was on tape. Don't you just love the wierdo that jumps to the side of a pervert, then usually add a note that they pray for the badley mistaken 5 yr old victim? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diane

Don't you just love the wierdo that jumps to the side of a pervert, then usually add a note that they pray for the badley mistaken 5 yr old victim? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't you love the people who jump to conclusions based on emotion not facts? Even love those who make up facts and twist the truth to fit their needs. I don't see anyone praying for the "mistaken" 5yo victim in this specific conversation. I do see two things, one saying innocent til proven guilty (or admitting so) and two others jumping to guilty without facts. BTW it's badly, no e. I believe the argument that some may be making isn't about the girl being accurate in what happened but coming to grips that it is classified as RAPE. This is one of those times where it's legal definition that thankfully most don't have to deal with on a regular basis. had this been an older victim it may have been fondling or sexual imposition. aka grabbing a feel. Not saying it is right in those instances either but the statute here is not what the common understanding of rape is.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

If you don't have a case, look for a typo!

Diane is that the BEST you can come back with? Seriously I stated a position as to why people were having a problem understanding the charge of rape. Maybe your fingers are getting tired?

Rape requires penetration, even digital penetration. Pretty easy to prove in a five year old after an examination, unless of course you believe the five year old had previous sexual experience. The charges are filed after the examination.

As for myself, since I'm not directly involved in this case and have no direct knowledge of it, I'll refrain from convicting someone of something based on 1) an allegation by the victim (who certainly would not have come up with the "rape" charge) or 2) reports by members of the media whose ability to accurately report anything is questionable at best.

Several of you would be wise to soften your words as you will surely be eating some of them.

The boy admitted it. Ohio's law is clear, ANY sexual activity with a child under 10 is RAPE. You want to convince yourself this was just children playing around, but a high schooler should not be playing doctor with a preschooler under any circumstances.

o'really-1470447

Ohio's law is clear, ANY sexual activity with a child under 10 is RAPE

PLEASE get your facts straight. It's under 13.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.02

you are missing Mikers point completely. Guilty until proven otherwise is NOT the law of the land. Getting your FACTS straight is part of Mikers comment.

The law of the land says if you confess to a crime, we don't have to have a trial to prove you innocent. We can take you at your word and convict you. If he was proclaiming his innocence, I'd agree with Mickers -- but he's not.

There's nothing wrong with my facts. The law say under 13, and I believe that would include anyone under the age of 10. Sorry if I left out the 11 and 12 year olds, but since the girl was 5, it's really not germane.

Just as a 13-year old cannot, say, enter into a legal contract, write a check or even legally consent to have sex with anyone regardless of their age, a confession by said 13-year old will not suffice for conviction because he has no idea (legally, morally, or practically) what he is confessing to. That's why most adults would be fools to represent themselves in court. They're damn sure not going to be allowed by the judge or any half-way competent defense attorney or the legal system at large to convict a 13-year old boy for confessing to much of anything - especially not in a case like this.

o'really's statement is ridiculous.

He had his mother there, who probably knew what he was confessing to. I'll agree with you that a defense attorney can probably get him released, but there is a difference between being found not guilty and being innocent. He admits to being guilty. I believe him.

The question I have is why are you so intent on believing the girl, her grandmother and the police are lying?

I'm not intent on believing anything from anybody. That's sort of my whole point. Why are you so intent on believing what the press is telling you about a story that you have no part of? Remember, you only "know" what you think you know about this incident by virtue of having read it in the news. You have no more direct knowledge of the case than I do.

The girl is presumably telling exactly what happened. The grandmother has no clue - she apparently didn't see anything, so anything she says would be hearsay anyway.

The police? Please. As a matter of law in this country the police are expected to lie in order to secure convictions for the DA whether or not the convicted people are actually guilty of anything. As you said, there is a huge gulf between not guilty and innocent. There's an even larger gulf between guilty as charged and not guilty.

Been..exactly...I would suspect any teenager hanging out at those places and insist that McDonald's management enforce the weight/age limits. However, I don't take my kids to those disgusting places either....talk about risking e-coli...those places have tested positive for feces and urine over and over again. They are never cleaned.

I agree with both of you. Those places should be cleaned with a bleach solution several times a day! But that would cost money, of course. They use those play gyms to get kids to demand McDonalds, so they can sell junk to kids! I have never liked the idea, and now I have even more reason to dislike them. Are they ever cleaned and disinfected?

careful economy... she may threaten you with the "anaconda" as she stated it.

Actually, if they stick anything in your anus or mouth, I believe that constitutes sodomy. Not rape. Laws may vary in your jurisdiction.

Economy,

First of all, your doctor uses lubrication.

Secondly, your consent is implied as you did schedule the appointment with the intention of having a prostate/ pelvic exam.

Mike,

The girl was penetrated vaginally. That's rape.

If someone inserts a finger, broomstick, or penis into a vagina or anus without the insertee's consent, it is rape.

That was YOU who typed that. Not me. I was addressing your comment. Not what you may or may not have been thinking.

I'd also love to know where you got that info. This article doesn't mention it and it's not the sort of detail that's usually included in a news article.

My apologies, Miker.

I thought your comment was in response to Steve's assertion that this case isn't rape (which is in another comment thread, and not this one).

My bad.

I posted the link. It was from the initial local news story that was posted prior to the arrest of the boy.

"The girl told her grandmother that a boy digitally penetrated her vagina and that she was forced to digitally penetrate his anus, according to the incident report."

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29723771/detail.html#ixzz1dR0rPH79

I believe your consent is implied by the fact that you schedule and pay for those exams and even sign a consent form when you go into the office. Now, if your doctor came into your house and shoved his finger in your butt while whispering threats in your ear, that would be a different situation, wouldn't it?

Jennifer raises an interesting point. If you pay a hooker and she accepts payment, is consent implied?

Well you do make an appt and drive to the Doc to be examined. I think that would be implied consent. You are so far out of the ball park it's ridiculous! I certainly hope the Doc is not doing the exam for sexual pleasure, although you may be! I never realized so many people see nothing wrong with child sexual abuse. Parents think, what % of the posters are pro sex with children. Don't trust anyone with your child alone!

Steve, you sure can't get that dildo out of your mind, can you? You could order one online and it probably will be shipped in a plain brown wrapper! You could also get it sent with overnight shipping, if you can wait that long.

I believe the usual description is, "Just drop your pants, bend over, and relax." Sort of ironic instructions.

A few posters above have included Ohio's definition of rape and it does seem to apply in this instance.

Am I the only one who finds it SHOCKING that someone is trying to equate a teenager forcing a kindergarden age girl to allow him to penetrate her and to use her to penetrate himself with an adult going to a doctor's office for an exam?

REALLY??

First off, I am sure there is some kind of discussion or something that happens before the doctor walks in and sticks his/her hand inside your body. Maybe you tell the office staff that your appointment is for a pelvic or prostrate exam, maybe after getting your blood pressure you casually mention that you are there for a refill of your BP medicine, to have the doc check that suspicious mole and get your insides checked out, or perhaps when they hand you the paper gown you ask them why you are being asked to remove your pants and drawers BEFORE YOU DO SO... I don't know about you, but if I was just there to have the doc take a look at my left ear and they handed me a gown to put on and told me to strip my lower half, I would probably ask some questions and seek some clarification..and it would happen well before the doc came running in with a gloved and lubricated finger!

If you are suffering the misfortune to have a doctor that expects you to strip every time you walk in the office and comes running into the exam room, tosses you across the table and, without a word of explanation, performs exams on you, then I suggest that you contact your state health department and have someone look into the practices of that doctor.

My son was born with a kidney problem and he had to have a lot of very invasive exams, testing and surgeries. The first time was when he was a month old. When he was old enough to even have the slightest chance of understanding what anyone was talking about, the wonderful professionals at our Children's Hospital carefully explained AND OBTAINED HIS CONSENT for what was going to happen. When he did not give his consent, we talked about it until he understood why it was necessary and gave his consent. I remember my son not wanting to be catheterized when he was 3 and we discussed it until he understood and gave his consent to the procedure.

The reason for that is to prevent him from feeling that he did not have control over what happened to his body. And, yes, one time he refused to give consent and we left and went back to the doctor, the doctor talked to him about it, and they decided to wait for a year before doing the procedure.

What that boy did to that little girl was rape. Pure and simple. And there is absolutely NO comparison to an adult going to the doctor to have an examination.

Mike, its interesting that you find the rape of a 5 year old girl a place for humor.

MsEddy... did you grow up under a bridge somewhere? There were ninth graders who had to visit relatives out of town in the 70's... A few even came to school until they started to "show" NOTHING has changed for the age group physically/emotionally. They just report it more often and it gets WWW attention where before it stayed local and everyone kept their silence. The girls were as bad or worse than the boys... gotta love Catholic schools. (FACT not derogatory to the Catholics) Kids 20 years weren't just dreaming it they were doing IT. How else do we have great-grandmothers who are only fifty something today.

I grew up in the 60's and we all played doctor at age 5 and were having sex as preteens. There were pregnant 13 year old girls in my town and neighborhood. There was no sex on our black & white tv's, and there was no home computers. Kids know even more about sex now then what we did, and we knew a lot about sex back then. I had plenty of sex experiences back then, and I know I would have twice as many experiences in the 2000's based on how kids are these days. You are totally naive if you don't think little kids experiment with sex. The parents back then had no clue, which was how we did it so much. With both parents working, it would be even easier to do it now.

call me skeptical or whatever, what else could the parents do? Their son's face was plastered on the news on tv! If they hadn't turned him in I'm positive someone else in the city/town would have recognized him and done the deed. Maybe someone who knows him/them had already alerted them to the news report-who knows? Saved them the embarrassment of the PD knocking on their door and hauling their son off handcuffed in front of the neighbors.

I am sure they lawyered up before they took the kid in. I wonder how the ACLU will defend this? Jessie? Reverend Al? Can't wait to hear their comments.

Lizzie, I believe the child is white. The reverends aren't interested unless he is a minority. I don't think the ACLU sees a basis for much the same reason. They DID have a lawyer in court Saturday. The lawyer entered a plea of "denied" which in juvenile court is the same as not guilty. No lawyer when he was taken to police and "confessed" to groping (under Ohio law sexual contact on someone under 13 is rape no matter what the actual act is.)

He may have seen sex videos & both parties enjoying it & assumed all girls would like it too so it wasn’t wrong. Or at least not a major wrong. I'm sure she was crying &/or fighting but we don't know how this child’s mind interpreted the little girl’s response. I’d cut him some slack until accurate details come out. Yeah, we have to exact our pound of flesh, yada yada yada but not by sticking him in with adult felons to learn a life of crime. Beyond that, what he needs most is sex education & being taught right from wrong in respect to sexual behavior as well as the rights of the individual not to be violated.

Rape can NOT always be determined by a physical exam. Sometimes, it can be proven by a physical exam, but it can not be ruled out to have happened as a result of a physical exam. The hymen can be ruptured by many different situations, even something as simple as a fall to the ground and how durable it is varies, some cases have even required a physician to completely rupture, and some are so delicate that they seem to have never existed.

Yes, I do know a woman that had painful sex until her first appointment for a pelvic exam and the doctor informed her that the problem was that she still had a partially intact hymen. And, there are many genetic disorders that include connective tissue fragility, the hymen is simply a small piece of tissue that could be torn with no actual contact, just as when I fell and detached my retina as a child.

That's true, and hopefully he didn't damage the hymen, but that would make it more difficult to prove during an exam, unless there are other signs-like visible scratches inside. I would think that if the hymen was ruptured the night of or the night before the exam they could tell if it happened that recently, like blood or dried blood inside. I kind of think, though, if he had ruptured it, she probably would have screamed, or at least went crying to her grandma. *o.k. yes I know sometimes ruptured hymens don't hurt but I'll bet it would for a 5-year-old. Maybe her grandma/mom noticed blood on her or in her panties and asked her what happened?

When the 13 year old is accused of rape, and the 13 year old admits in the presence of his parents and law enforcement that he agrees with the charge and its circumstances, then we can probably guess he raped the 5 year old.

What world are you living in? A thirteen year old knows better. A 21 year old having sex isn't wrong because the 13 year old doesn't know better, it's wrong because a 21 year old is pressuring and taking advantage of a minor who shouldn't be having sex to begin with. Just like I'm sure this 13 year old pressured and took advantage of a minor who never should have been exposed to that type of behavior.

Kids don't pressure other kids into sex. You just ask them and they will usually just do it. That's how it was when I was 5, when I was 10, and when I was 13. Now a 13 year old messing with a 5 year old is not normal, but I've seen it it in my day. Doing it in public, like at McDonalds, I've never seen it, nor would ever attempt something like that when I was that age.

...and they should get a big fat F for letting their 13 year old wander off an rape another kid.

Eldon ~~ I too give the parents KUDOS. I can't even imagine how heart wrenching this was for them, to report their own child. My hope is that the 5yr old get the psychological help she will need in order to go forward in her life, AND I sincerly hope the 13yr old will be REQUIRED to get some therapy, as well as his parents. My fingers are crossed in hopes that he may be saved from himself, and that he can raise above this horrible ordeal, and go forward. Of course I'm hoping that he gets HOUSE ARREST, LOTS of community service and probation until he's at least 18yrs old.

John S-400329 ~~ The parents didn't LET their 13yr old rape anybody. You need to get your head screwed on straight.

Lorene, House arrest with the same parents who raised him to think that raping a 5 year old is OK? How about juvie until he's 18 and then prison until he's dead?No hope for him. He's already trash and will never NOT be trash.

Kudos to the people who turned the kid in before the cops came to drag him away? Go have a smoothie with Tinkerbell and Cinderella. You're clearly living in Disneyland. House arrest? LOL at your naivete!

The parents didn't rape that child and they didn't try to cover for him when they realized what he had done. They are not just as responsible as he is. Don't give this kid the cop-out of "my parents raised me to rape" he made the decision and he is solely responsible for the consequences.

parents didnt do it retard --but the kid they better nail his A$$ to the wall and keep him away from soceity forever. or you will have kreeper at your door or crawling though your window and raping your daughter or mother in the future. they dont change. nothing but slim.