Valley Forge....are you kidding me. The media has exposed the fact that many of these little pu**ies are already sneaking home at night in the good weather!

Let Natural Selection have a good winter please.

Longhair and spider continuing to ignore the stated reason for the occupation. That's cool, I had you two pegged as simple trolls from the get-go.

Really? Well, YouJust, I've been following this thing on a daily basis, and I've never heard any one of these losers state the reason for the occupation....other than weaseling out of student loan obligations. So, here's your opportunity, big mouth, enlighten us "ignorant trolls" as to the exact purpose of this disorganized circle jerk.

spider-737231

Really?

Yes, really. If a social liberal said the sky was blue, you'd scream at them for being a socialist commie and insist the sky was yellow. Or green. Or jelly sandwich.

Well, YouJust, I've been following this thing on a daily basis,

You may have prattled ad nauseum about the "losers" on a daily basis -- hence the troll tag I've clipped on your ear -- but I sincerely doubt you've "followed" the movement to any degree.

and I've never heard any one of these losers state the reason for the occupation....other than weaseling out of student loan obligations.

Really? Not one? I'll give you the opportunity to retract that before I start linking.

So, here's your opportunity, big mouth, enlighten us "ignorant trolls" as to the exact purpose of this disorganized circle jerk.

I already know the core principal, but I thought I would help you out. It took me almost 10 seconds to track it down (golly the internet can be a hard thing, huh spider?). Under the "about" section of the official site ...

Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan's Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #OWS is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.

So, there you have it. Basically, if you oppose to core principal of OWS, you oppose Democracy.

Why do you hate Democracy, spider?

YouJustSaidWhat Why do you hate people that disagree with you ?

Spider and Brendan. Each person has different reasons for why they occupy. Alot of their anger is over wall street and corporations which control government. I too have been following this movement since day one. For starters, the comments of people not having jobs, thats not true. I support this movement and have a great job. Scott Olson, the iraq vet also lived in the camp even with having a comfortable home and good job. You should stop profiling people based on their views. And who cares if they have a home or if they are camping out. They are expressing their views as a group with being upset about government and corporation greed. These people don't even affect your lives, yet you have the nerve to put these people down. I guess thats how most American's are now adays. We are so quick to criticize people. If they want to sit out there and protest. Fine. If they go home and come back the next morning. Great. If they want to protest for months. Why should you care or waste your time to make rude comments?

just me really

YouJustSaidWhat Why do you hate people that disagree with you ?

I don't ... ?

@YouJustSaidWhat

Only problem is -- we are not a democracy. We are a a representative republic, or a constitutional republic. You want change? Change your congressman or representative.

The fact that the so called "Majority" Though there is no evidence to support that the majority back OWS protestors, should not and will not impose thier will on the minority. Even if the 99% want to impose limits on the 1% that is not fair nor should it be allowed.

The majority should never have the ability to dictate what the minority can or cannot do, and that includes the right to keep what you make.

E: @ YouJustSaid - I hate democracy, but then again you said our government is a democracy so that shows how educated on the matter you are.

brendan-4

@YouJustSaidWhat

Only problem is -- we are not a democracy. We are a a representative republic, or a constitutional republic. You want change? Change your congressman or representative.

Sorry, I don't have millions of dollars and an army of lobbiests at my disposal. I'll continue to demand change in the name of the People the old fashioned way.

The fact that the so called "Majority" Though there is no evidence to support that the majority back OWS protestors, should not and will not impose thier will on the minority. Even if the 99% want to impose limits on the 1% that is not fair nor should it be allowed.

You don't get it. You really, really don't get it. You have been fed a spoonful of bullsh*t, friend. OWS is demanding equal representation for the People without regard to amassed wealth, as well as a reckoning for the corrupted financial institutions that were ultimately responsible for the sh*theap the 99% of us are mired in.

The majority should never have the ability to dictate what the minority can or cannot do, and that includes the right to keep what you make.

THEY. ARE. NOT. A. WELFARE. MOVEMENT. GET. THAT. OUT. OF. YOUR. HEAD.

E: @ YouJustSaid - I hate democracy, but then again you said our government is a democracy so that shows how educated on the matter you are.

You're going to really play that card? Fine. Popular usage of the word democracy aside, I'll offer that we have a republic with a representative democracy.

On the other hand, you said you hate democracy. Wow. Just ... wow.

@Youjustsaidwhat

Democracy assumes that the majority can impose its will on the minority. So yes, i find that very unfair and biased, so yes, I do hate democracy. I belive in republics, such as the way our government is set up.

If its not a welfare movement then they need to clarify that. When you have the OWS demanding immediate debt relief, how is that not a welfare movement?

I understand that you would like equal representation, so i say.. Do something about it? Campaign to change government or change who represents you?? What does standing outside of a corporation do? Those ceo's could give two sh*ts if your outside thier building sleeping on the ground.

You wont have any change until you have change in government, remeber now, these loopholes and the tax law favoring the rich that you speak of is actually written law. In order to change the law you need to change who is elected.

Get my drift? or does that make too much sense for OWS protestors? You would think a $250k liberal arts degree would teach you something?

brendan-4

@Youjustsaidwhat

Democracy assumes that the majority can impose its will on the majority. So yes, i find that very unfair and biased, so yes, I do hate democracy. I belive in republics, such as the way our government is set up.

Did you miss it? Representative democracy. Popular usage. You're splitting hairs just to shill.

If its not a welfare movement then they need to clarify that. When you have the OWS demanding immediate debt relief, how is that not a welfare movement?

They have. Since you refuse to look it up, here it is.

I understand that you would like equal representation, so i say.. Do something about it?

I am. I am supporting the protesters.

Campaign to change government or change who represents you??

As stated, I don't have unlimited finances, and thus, undue influence over my government.

What does standing outside of a corporation do? Those ceo's could give two sh*ts if your outside thier building sleeping on the ground.

You wont have any change until you have change in government,

And you won't have change in government until you eliminate the influence of the 1%.

remeber now, these loopholes and the tax law favoring the rich that you speak of is actually written law. In order to change the law you need to change who is elected.

What part about the 1% control the purse strings are you not getting? It's not a matter of changing bodies, regardless of (D) or (R). They all work for the new aristocracy. The only way to change this is to unite as a People and demand the change for equitable representation NOW. This is being done by bringing to light the rampant corruption to those paying attention.

In your specific case, it would involve doing some research and following the movement, instead of barking on the 'boards.

Get my drift? or does that make too much sense for OWS protestors?

Don't be an @!$%#. It was a decent debate up until you started the character smears.

You would think a $250k liberal arts degree would teach you something?

I'm thinking maybe you're the one that missed the lesson.

@YouJustSaidWhat

Ive read the demands in the past, and what I read is that the OWS protestors are mad because they signed up for debt and now that they have no way of repaying it want immediate debt relief. Is this fair to the people that have paid their debts? Sounds to me that they were the unresponsible ones signing up for something they had no way of repaying. Then they blame the system for thier personal failures.

One of the things i hate about this movement is the fact that they despise personal liberties and personal responsibility.

You refusing to lobby for new representation just proves that the OWS movement will never gain traction. The common public looks at OWS protestors protesting companies as a reflection on the person, not on the system. The common public views the protestors as a generation that has been promised the world, told that you MUST go to college to be successful, which simply is not true.

I have no sympathy for people that took out 200K in student loans and are now underwater. Nothing is free in this world, even if you advocate for free public schooling someone always pays.

How about taking a look at Ron Paul? He is just about the most anti-establishment person running for president you could ever have. Granted he would not give into the demands of the OWS protestors because he belives in a free market, something that OWS strongly advocates against but listening to his views just may open your eyes.

I yearn for the day that my generation, the youngest generation, takes up personal responsibility instead of the "haves" and "have-not's" or the 1% vs the 99%.

Class warfar is all this is, and its truely Anti-american.

brendan-4

@YouJustSaidWhat

Ive read the demands in the past, and what I read is that the OWS protestors are mad because they signed up for debt and now that they have no way of repaying it want immediate debt relief. Is this fair to the people that have paid their debts? Sounds to me that they were the unresponsible ones signing up for something they had no way of repaying. Then they blame the system for thier personal failures.

Graduating college and not immediately finding a job = personal failure? Digression. Regardless, you're bullseyeing one example and using that to paint the entire movement. It's the equivalent of saying all Tea Party members love stomping on the heads of women. Neither statement is factual

One of the things i hate about this movement is the fact that they despise personal liberties and personal responsibility.

How are personal liberties being impacted by demanding equitable representation outside of monetary influence? That's -- like -- Bizzaro World stuff. I've given you the link. You're choosing to disregard the core principals.

Blah blah blah, rant rant rant

Jesus Christ.

At no point did you address anything I said, with the exception of faulting me for not lobbying. (God, I hope you meant something other than that, but just mistyped. I really, really do.)

An amazing exercise in lack of focus. Your ramble (inclusive of a Ron Paul promotion) is typical of people willingly ignorant of the social and economic issues facing our country.

Good luck. You need it.

What a bunch of complete knuckleheads. If they actually wanted to improve and serve their country and humanity, they would join the military, peace corp, etc.

Those who support the OWS need a lesson in civics and history. If you want to change how government is influenced by the so called Wall Street Bankers, then go out and organize a political movement, much as the Tea Party did. Pick people that represent your cause, and campaign for them. Sleeping in the parks and sidewalks, going to the bath room in public and upon the ground and harassing business owners in and around the parks, yelling and screaming and taking civil disobedience to the extreme of attacking police will not get you any where. The OWS is loosing the PR battle and cities throughout the nation are getting fed up.

The Tea Party had rally permits, cleaned up after themselves, went out and participated in the electoral process, got some people elected to congress and are working to get more elected. The OWS crowd is doing nothing but alienating the majority of the people.

@YouJustSaidWhat

I need help? Or the people that think protesting a large corporation that could give two sh*ts about you or other OWS protestors is actually going to accomplish or change something?

You can protest them all you want but you know what?

The Dow Jones Industrial Average, the biggest index of US stock prices, has soared over 1200 points this month, breaking a record set in April 1999, a far more happy go-luck year when MySpace was born, the first dotcom boom was underway and the euro was established.

Keep protesting! Seems like the markets/corporations reallllllllly care.

How in the World can this author even compare the "Day of Rage on Wall Street" protesters who really don't even know why they are protesting with George Washington's selection of Valley Forge as the site for his troops during the winter FIGHTING A WAR for INDEPENDENCE ?

Journalism has set a new standard for LOWERING THE BAR on reporting.

Maybe a better article would be from some "investigate journalist", if there are any left, who will research the funding for these Greek wannabes and report it to the PUBLIC.

Now, that would be interesting, not some article like this one saying these "protesters" would brave Mother Nature and not going home at night to sleep in Mom and Dad's basement.

The problem with OWS is that the movement blames others and the protesters cannot accept ANY responsibility for their woes. We all have problems. The economic downturn has effected EVERYONE. I am a middle class guy, good paying job, up to my eyeballs in debt from my own lifestyle and college for my kids. Medical bills, even with insurance are huge.

I am not out their protesting. I work hard at my job and donate time and money to local charities.

The point is that you don't complain, you work hard, help other people and you will be OK. Don't rely on government bailouts and handouts. By the way, the "bailouts" to the banks were at 5%+, so they paid up for them.

And by the way, the mortgage crises, no one ever blames the borrower who borrowed more than they can handle. They blame Wall Street and the banks for lending them the money. Another pointing the blame at the wrong person.

The person most responsible for your problems is right there in the mirror.

Golly, I wonder how long they're going to protest in a blizzard? Walmart tents? Occupy empty buildings, warehouses, foreclosed homes and hang out in churches just like the homeless only the protesters don't like the homeless, say they're dirty and opportunistic and take their food...oh, wait.....aren't they part of the 99%?

All of you right-wingers compaining that the protestors should get a job, how about doing this; Monday morning when you go to your good-paying jobs, go to the CEO's of your companies and ask them why they haven't created any jobs like W said they would do with his tax cuts instead of lining their pockets with the extra loot.

That should be "complaining" instead of "compaining"...

Lar-345817

The problem with OWS is that the movement blames others and the protesters cannot accept ANY responsibility for their woes. We all have problems.

They got that from the Blamer-in-Chief, the professional victim, Barack Hussein Obama. That is but one of OWS' many, many problems. Throw a tent over this circus.

LoneWolf-YellowDog

All of you right-wingers compaining that the protestors should get a job, how about doing this; Monday morning when you go to your good-paying jobs, go to the CEO's of your companies and ask them why they haven't created any jobs like W said they would do with his tax cuts instead of lining their pockets with the extra loot.

If you had a job, you would understand where they come from. The job fairy doesn't drop them off over the weekend.

That's what they said about the Wisconsin protests back in January.

What is with the Liberal Arts degree talking point that everyone seems to be using. Is it because you think only college grads with that degree can't find a job? News flash, that is not the case.

I am currently working on a BA in Software Engineering from UOP. While the Tech sector is still good there is not an abundance of jobs available. It is even worse in some other areas. True, having a degree does not guarantee you a job but that does not mean that there is only one degree in which people cannot find work.

By the way most entry level jobs for college grads start at around 30k to 45k so in effect yeah, if they get a job it will be around a 40k salary job.

Oh and there are protestors that have jobs that they go to during the day then protest during the night. I thought we already debunked the whole "all these protestors are hippie, drug addict, jobless losers" argument several weeks ago.

Geowil..what is your point, the economy is slow right now?

John, my point is, since it was apparently not self-evident to you, you do not have to have a liberal arts degree to not be able to find work, and yes because the jobs market is in a bum session right now. Some posters are insinuating that all of the college grads in the protest that do not have jobs have degrees in LA and that is why they cannot find a job. I am merely presenting facts to refute that claim.

Sure some of them were crazy enough to think that they could get a job with a liberal arts degree, but that is not the case with all of them just as not everyone there does not have a job.

Someone from up above, had to do with bringing in the cold, and huge snowstorms reigning down on these bums. Or was it Climate Change knowing exactly when to "act".

It will be the real test to see if they can make it through the entire winter, sleeping on the ground. "Groundhogs".

No one feels sorry for these freeloaders who are put others lives in danger, i.e, health problems, defecating, sex, drugs, rock n roll; traffic, and being able to move about freely with a Rifle being carried by someone who is paid by ACORN.

The Violence is just the beginning of a long winter with no meaning.. Maybe none of them have ever heard of Hypothermia.

Arrest them all.

Geowil...consider that claim refuted. I agree, the economy is bad for all degree types. We know how and where it started. We know how and when it will get better.We are four years into the dip. We are four or five, maybe six years from a better economy. Life is all about adjusting.

John:

This isn't the first time the economy has been bad--go back years: I remember, but people were innovative either to start their own little business, or think of some creative need of others--like dog sitting, caretaking, landscaping, being a nanny---there are jobs--college grads think these kinds of jobs are beneath them. Humbleness pays off, and so does Loyalty.

It takes motivation, and a willingness to accept something not equal to a college Degree, of which the Government keeps extended Unemployment Checks. Just getting one's foot in the door and staying there could lead to bigger jobs, and a bigger paycheck.

Everyone thinks just because they have a College Degree, they are owed something. Now a days, EVERYONE has a college degree, equal to that of a High School Education.

No one is "Special".

John:

Edit Time went immediately to insert that "your answer"; "my answer" is directed at Geowil.

Thanks for understanding.

It is not Valley Forge.

However, I would like to see the end of several American practices. End all campaign contributions (or almost all at least). All political campaigning should be town hall debates that are open and also televised on public channels and other networks that decide to carry them. All political candidates/parties having equal access and not being dependent on billion dollar campaign funds (at least at presidential level).

Politicians are human so I cannot see how a person can take all that money and not have to repay some favors later. For the good of our country we must remedy this situation. Our current gov has many barriers for us in life such as regulations to do business, own property, etc. It is time for some barriers for our politicians. If they cannot stay honest on their own, we must enact certain protections to attempt to keep them honest and working for the public good.

For the good of the economy,separation of insurance and banking corporations since their union is extremely dangerous to protection of our savings and bank deposits. See bailouts at taxpayer expense.

Prison system issues include violent offenders with sentences that are far too short. Our public officials are either blindly faithful when letting these people out of jail, or they do not care about our safety. Criminals known to harm others must face longer sentences. End concurrent sentences where criminals pay for two crimes at once. Fifteen years for kidnapping and fifteen years for rape should equal 30 years in jail, instead of the fifteen years the criminal gets under concurrent sentences. If we don't have the prison capacity to put these people away for longer terms, then let out marijuana users and dealers (only if no violent crimes). And legalize marijuana ending at least that part of the drug war. It is foolhardy and expensive based on danger posed by marijuana. Also, we are losing out on all the benefits of legalized marijuana from jobs, tax collection, keeping all the money in US (something we could also use).

While we are at it, I would like to see our government do a review of waste and duplication of effort (like we have been promised by many politicians....2008 presidential campaign McCain indicated he would freeze gov budgets, and Obama said blanket freeze would be incorrect but he would use a scalpel to carve out waste.....we got neither). They must create more efficient workflow/government. We have all heard the stories about several different gov agencies administering similar programs with similar goals. We need to streamline!

Go OWS. I was wondering when this generation was going to step up and use their right to assemble and protest the stuff that is going on right now. Just like people did in the 60's with the civil rights movement and the Viet Nam War. These last set of worthless wars should have been protested as well. GOOD GOING OWS. Keep the movement going , it will make a difference.

Hopefully the homeless folks appreciated the free meals enough to teach these "Valley Forge" protesters not to eat the yellow snow that should be in abundance around the encampment.

Seems people want to go back to when our country started. Sure let's do that! Back then no one worked eight hour days or 40 hour weeks. The pioneers worked 16 or more hours a day, from before sun up to after sun down! They also worked 7 days a week! Paid vacations?? HAH!! They didn't get any vacations, let alone a paid one! They did it for them selves and their families. If they managed to grow a few extra veggies, they either traded them for something they needed or wanted. Granny would take eggs into town and trade for cloth and thread to make clothes for the family. Then someone decided to add one, maybe 2 extra rows of produce just for trade. This was the start of capitalism! Nothing they needed this month so they took cash instead, and put that away for "a rainy day". Then they found out people would steal that from them and they needed a safe place to keep that money. Here come the banks! Mr banker says I will be glad to keep that for you in my safe bank and if you don't mind, I will lend it out to your friends for interest, and we will both make money! WOW, free money just for letting your money sit in a safe in a bank! What I am getting at is, everyone is greedy! We all want something for nothing. Who has a savings account! you are wall st! Who has a retirement account? You are wall st. Who has a 401k? You are also wall st! Anyone who works and wants to have money left over at the end of the month is part of wall st!. You are working for a profit! Anyone who goes to garage sales and buys thing to take home and sell on ebay....... yep you are capitalists and part of wall st! Why?...... because you want a profit!

My last post was to show that the problems were caused by everyone including the ones that are demonstrating! They want something they don't deserve or want to work for! All those nylon tents?? yeah well that just sends more jobs and money to China! All those sleeping bags, same thing! The OWS folks are part of the problem not the solution. They could never be part of the solution because they are unwilling to work for results! They would rather sit around and whine about how they deserve this or that. Well, kiddies, you don't deserve squaat except the chance to work and make something of yourselves, which you refuse to do! Wake up and smell your starbucks!! Speaking of, demonstrate against them for selling 15 cents worth of coffee for $3.00!

Well, with the way things are going, school funding being cut and all, there won't be anyone with brains who can actually do something.

AW IN KC

The Kansas City school system spent more on their system and still lost accreditation for poor performance. Explain that.

You do realize alot of these occupiers are in college or are graduates. Why do you think they are upset? They have a degree after paying for an education which basically is worthless. I have 3 college graduate friends that have also passed the NCLEX-RN exam and 2 took over a year to find a job. The other had to move across the country to get a job. Companies are looking for experienced workers. The kids coming out of college are left in the dark. My g/f took 14 months after passing the NCLEX to find a job. I helped her send out at least 30 resumes weekly. What was 90% of the responses? "Thank you but we are looking for a minimum 2 years experience."

Kansas school boards also wanted creationism taught in school and not evolution. It doesn't matter how much money you spend in a school if the school in question only teaches crap.

Just because you get a degree in say, African American studies or Post-Industrial English Poetry or any other degree you spent all kinds of money on is no guarantee for nada as to finding work in that particular field.

I have both graduate and post-graduate degrees, and I have waited tables, cooked in restaurants, substitute taught, cleaned houses and done whatever it took to pay the rent and put food on the table. I hated some of the work I did but I did it to get by.

Waiting around for the perfect job? Gonna find that perfect job? In a perfect world, in a great economy, maybe...in a crappy economy you do what you have to do. Unless you want the government to take care of you, and there are lots of people doing really well by gaming the system.

Richard,

Well for one it is Kansas we are talking about here. Also they probably mismanaged the fund. And then you have to take the state of mind of the kids into account. If they kids think school is not important or boring they aren't going to both trying very hard. Kids that skip school entirely are a drag on the system as well. There are way more factors to why our education system is failing then the teachers, or the curriculum, or whatever you want to bring up. It is a multifocal issue and there are several points of failure.

The most significant one is the parents of the kids who are doing poorly because they don't like school. For a healthy education system you must first have students that actually want to learn. That is instilled in the kids by the parents.

The second biggest issue is our methodology. We have a system that is basically drill the information into their brains and then test, test, test them on it. There is not usually room for any creative instruction, thinking, or discussion on topics that allows for the students to grow.

I used to get crappy grades back in grade school, mostly c's with some d's and b's occasionally some f's, but I am acing my college courses. College is not setup to drill and grill like grade school is, it is setup so that you have to think thoroughly, critically, and rationally about the topics at hand and it promotes thought provoking discussions in such a way that everyone gains insights into the courses that they might not have garnered.

We need to move all levels of education to this type of a system where tests are not king but where students share their thoughts on the material in ways to provoke discussions and allow for deeper understandings of the content to be reached. Not saying abolish testing, I am just suggesting we stop using testing as a means of gauging understanding of material, because it proves nothing other then memorization abilities.

chi mb: (Frat or Sorority Member?)

What most do not realize here, that it is always been hard to find a good job after going to College. It is not a guarantee one will make more money, and have a job waiting for them, as soon as they finish Commencement.

Many are spoiled with expectations, and instant gratification.

So many successful people, especially those who started up Hi Tech Companies, bagged College, after a few years---

Only Doctors, if they are excellent, can find a career--some wait years---

Nothing gets handed to anyone, even those who do not pay a huge amount for good, further education.

So stop the Pity Party--eventually a job comes along---

Maui2: Neither. My girl went to CUNY Kingsborough in Brooklyn. And she graduated with a 3.6 GPA. The other people I know went to the same school. There is no pity party. I am not complaining. I am not feeling sorry. I am just arguing with tom who commented that these people protesting are losers with no brians or skills. I am just stating that alot of these people are college graduates or in college. Try reading the thread first before making assumptions.

What I find laughingly amazing it that a day or two ago these idiots were complaining about the FREELOADERS in the line of donated food and the aguments of how to get those FREELOADERS out and then yesterday I think, because of the cold weather, they want to embrace their "comrades in the struggle"(you know, those FREELOADERS of yesterday amd hopfully they will teach FREELOADER group 1 to deal with real world weather

I saw a sign at one of the protest sites that read "Beware of Pickpockets"...when the news camera shows a tent camp, it makes me wonder what percentage of the people there are so called "protesters" and how many are street peoplle, pickpockets, or bums there for the free food, free cellphones, and free ipads that are being "lost" daily.

Degree does not equal guaranteed job. Ambition, professionalism, hard work, enthusiasm. These things have to be show to employers before they hire you. You have to prove to them that you are an investment, don't just send a resume with the expectation that they'll hire you because you feel you deserve it. We all need money to survive, but that makes Americans assume a job is an entitlement. No, our support and survival is in our own hands, don't pass your own responsibilities off on the government, that's not what it was created for. I'm in school right now, but I don't expect a job when I graduate. I'm talking to professionals in my field now, making connections, trying to get a feel for the environment, looking for places my skills will be needed. If I don't have an opportunity lined up BEFORE I graduate, that is my own fault.

Really? Do think our government is doing a good job serving the people? Are they putting things to a vote by the majority of the people? Wake the @!$%# up america. Congress is @!$%#ing screwing us the working middle class!

Who we elect to congress is put to a vote by the majority, not the decisions they make. Thats how its always worked. We vote them in, they make the decisions. Don't like their decisions then run yourself, or vote in someone else.

They're obviously not gonna stop until something changes. Like them or not, they are there.

AW, what do you mean by "take them seriously?" Can you say what they actually are trying to accomplish? Most of THEM can't....

I'm the first to admit that they need to find a goal and stick to it, hence why I work 40 hours a week. If they could determine a goal I could get behind I would be there too. As it is, some of the things are ridiculous, like forgiving all their tuition. I can't get behind that. At the same time, everyone is frustrated and at least they are showing it. Most people just complain at home and do nothing.

They clearly are making their point heard because OWS is getting broader support from the average American than the Tea Party. Add to it the fact that they are willing and working to continue the protest in spite of many inconviences shows a lot more dedication and perseverance than any Tea Partier protest has managed. I certainly didn't see any tea partiers tputting their lives on hold for an openended period of time, bringing their kids out to truely show what it means to exercise your civic duty. They are showing that their is more to life than being a hard working slave to keep massa' in his nice plantation house...even if that means standing on street corners in thee cold for days, weeks, months on end.

There are worse things in life than refusing to grovel for slave wages.

@missrn

you forgot to mention OWS doesnt have an entire cable news network devoted to pad their numbers and make sure their message is propagated through the mainstream media.

Paul W-396258

AW, what do you mean by "take them seriously?" Can you say what they actually are trying to accomplish? Most of THEM can't....

I can. An end to the inequity of representation in our government because currently, those with the bankroll have greater leverage.

Why did YOU think the occupations started?

Maybe if you repeated it over and over again, these fox fools will get it. I will start:

An end to the inequity of representation in our government because currently, those with the bankroll have greater leverage.

I am sure they will come back and parrot fox "news" again: (DUH, I don't get it!)

I will tell you what, the republican party and their followers are really shining a light on themselves with this movement. This is what I see: Petty, mean spirited, unable to do their homework, counteractive, combative, contradicting. They just make themselves look stupid to those of us that are not Party Politics people. They still do not have it in their thick skulls that this is an independent movement, above all else.

Jaga-1147543

I'm sorry but you are just a POS low life scumbag

3rd grade name calling always helps.

@PJ

You mean that the average republican understands that you need to work hard to earn things in life instead of being promised a 40k/year job out of college just because you have a 200k Liberal arts degree?

Lets get serious here, these kids are upset because their parents and high school guidance counselors told them that if they went to college that they would be promised that job. I remember in 2001 when i was looking for a school, that many of the schools talking points was the placement rate at employers post graduation. Decades of children being told and enabled through parents that no longer parent is why this is happening.

Seems like all the media is covering is the Protests. So, it's all over the place, on youtube, the nightly news, the broadcast news, and it is all over the place as regard coverage. Kinda like the protesters are all over the place. Beating drums incessantly is a great way to solve those inequality problems. Ditto defecating on cop cars and marching on anyone and anything they're told to march on.

This whole thing has been orchestrated for months, planned, and word sent out. No one in the media is shining a spotlight on the organizers, wonder why? They don't want to reveal the people pulling the strings, might not look so noble or sacrificing or freedom and equality seeking if that were to happen.

breanden-4,

Like they said you just do not understand the problem. Wealth disparity is the median wealth made by different groups of society. In a healthy society there is an acceptable ratio of income difference between different groups of that society. This means that the wealth made is justified because a lower rung in the social structure made and spent an appropriate amount of money for another, higher rung to have made the money they did.

This is the heart of the problem. The middle class and poor class in America is making less and less money each year while the rich class is making more and more money each year. This is not healthy because in order for the upper/rich class to make money the lowers classes have to spend the money that the upper class made.

If the lower classes are making less money then so should the upper classes because wealth trickles up and always has. Consumers work, they make money. That money then is used to pay for services and buy stuff which then gives profits to the upper class who then spend those earnings on producing more items or creating more jobs.

That is the way the economy has always worked; trickle down is a farce by the way. When the rich start making more money then what the lower classes have earned and spent you have income disparity. When that disparity grows too wide you have an economic meltdown. And I do not mean a meltdown like 2008, I mean a depression; a real one.

This is what caused the Great Depression, a income disparity gap that was much too wide. Right now the stock market is up because we still have an economic bubble, it was created when Bush passed Tarp and we have been inflating that bubble with Quantitative Easing and lowering interest rates.

Sure we did get out of the recession temporarily, started sliding back, and now the GDP did grow by 2.3% last month however the reason the market is up is because of Europe, not because our own economy is getting better. Sooner or later this bubble is going to burst if we do not deal with the underlying cause, the income disparity, and we will enter another recession if not a second depression.

WOW, Brendan-4, I didn't know there were so many high school guidance councilors out there! And get this straight: Republicans are not the only people out there that value hard work and family. Get off of your high horse, because you do not belong there.

Are you kidding??? when the first one dies the fools like Bloomberg will probably open up their private offices and break out the hot chocolate for the poor little babys.... that being said , it might be a good time to fire hose the sites below freezing...just a thought

Just the facts, the reason they can't expect to do as well as their parents is because they refuse to work as hard as their parents!! They want life to be as easy as their parents made it for them! I understand wanting to give your children all the things you never had as a child. I have a daughter and grandchildren. I also taught them that extras cost them! Daughter wanted advertised clothing instead of average type? That meant extra chores! The problem with the wimps today is they just want without earning it! Send them all out into the woods and see how many survive! See if they can make a shelter, start a cooking fire or trap game or find edible plants! I doubt it!

@ pj-965429 - "Petty, mean spirited, unable to do their homework, counteractive, combative, contradicting."

oh, you mean the protestors....

Not to mention popular support.

Tea Partiers- OWS minus the passion, perseverance, and companssion for humanity.

How is your comment even relevant, missrn? Try to stay on topic next time. The OWS park squatters are comparing themselves to the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War... what does that have, even remotely to do with the Tea Party?

It's relevent when labels are applied to groups, and adjectives are removed or applied in reference to said groups as you have done. George Washington was on the "wrong" side at one time too, just a metter of time and perspective....

missrn, the people that are attacking the #OWS are not true Americans (sound familiar, foxes?) If this was the revolutionary war, they would be on the side of the British. That should be obvious, even to them, but they do not get it. I do. This is another call to end imperialism (foxy people, please look up the definition before you post a reply, thank you.)

missrn

Tea Partiers- OWS minus the passion, perseverance, and companssion for humanity.

OWS = TP minus a clue, polical support and congressional representation.

Well John, how are those Teabag members of Congress working out for the country? Because of their "my way or the highway" attitude, the country's credit rating was downgraded for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY...

I dunno Matt, their goals and ideals are pretty damned similar.

LoneWolf-YellowDog

Well John, how are those Teabag members of Congress working out for the country? Because of their "my way or the highway" attitude, the country's credit rating was downgraded for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY...

Actually the 2010 GOP class is working out well.

Well LWYG, how's Obama working out? Because of his "my way or the highway attitutde, the country's credit rating was downgraded for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY.

Don't worry. He'll be gone in a year.

Toasty McGrath

I dunno Matt, their goals and ideals are pretty damned similar.

Really? Freedom from the british is damned similar to a $20 minimum wage and free college?

Name one protest demanding that, John. Go ahead.

These people are trying to get the government to hold accountable the people who nearly destroyed our country's economy. Accountability of the elite was one of the prime inspirations for the American Revolution, because we saw what this dangerous wealth disparity does to a nation.

John how about giving a real reply instead using Rove Tactics to try and weasel your way out of intelligent conversations.

Historically our Government functioned bcause both sides were willing to compromise on their ideals for the betterment of the country. What the TP Congressionals have effectively done is not turn our political system into a farce where one side has to have a majority or nothing gets done.

You do not see anything wrong with that? Uncompromising people have miserable lives because they never admit that they can be wrong. For instance you think you are not wrong that OWS is nothing more then a communist/socialist/whatever movement other then what it really is and you have convinced yourself that, that is what it is and will always be and cannot be anything different.

That is an uncompromising position with no flexibility where there is no grey area. Life does not work that way, there is always a grey area and there is never a time where compromise is never used in a healthy society.

You have to learn to accept others points of view if you want to truly be American. I accept that the TP hates Obama but that does not mean I have to agree with it. Much in the same way you do not have to agree with OWS, however calling something they are not is not the same thing as accepting their points of view.

Where is there room for compromise when each side is the 180 degree opposite of the other side The GOP realizes the country's debt and financial obligations are unsustainable. DO the math. We can't afford what we thought we could afford. (See Europe)

As such, we must drastically cut spending, while cutting taxes to promote growth. The opposition apparently wants to continue as if nothing is wrong, passing the HRA, the stimulus (fail), etc. Why are we borrowing money from China to send foreign aid to China?

OWS is merely a distractor from the fundemental problems of the economy, in order to bump taxes and further redistribute wealth. The left doesn't want to cut anything, anytime. Instead, itsnothing but jet owners, millionaires and class warfare.

I agree that Wall Street scammed the Clinton administration into deregulating banks, allowing the housing bubble to form, which fueled the disparity of wealth. Taxation is not the right answer. Taxation is always the wrong answer.

I accept OWS, but they are absolutely not helping their cause by acting like five year olds saying "NO I WON'T COME INSIDE!!" They will never be taken seriously be people like me until they come inside.

Toasty you and I both know there was TV footage of kids chanting for $20 min wages and free college for everyone. Those were some of the more coherent requests. One girl wanted to abolish money.

There has been enormous wealth accumulation concnetrated upon relativel few folks. Most of which resulted from the globalization of technology. Luckily, many of the super rich understand the tradition of philanthropy and know if they don't give it away, the government will take it sooner or later.

The system needs reforming, but complaining about student loans others have been paying for the past 40 years, through other economic cycles, hardly seems well-thought out.

John, You opinion of #OWS is what happens when you only get your news from limited sources, and take their opinions and half truths as reality.

ONE MORE TIME!!! #OWS is NOT a left wing movement or plot.

Valley Forge... minus the goals, focus, planning, ideals, and discipline

OWS has it easy. The Continental Army didn't have grocery bags to crap in.

Geowil, compromise emerges from a position of weakness. Advancement and economic growth come from a position of confidence and strength.

pj-965429

John, You opinion of #OWS is what happens when you only get your news from limited sources, and take their opinions and half truths as reality.

ONE MORE TIME!!! #OWS is NOT a left wing movement or plot.

I suppose OWS is not blatantly anti-semetic either? They let the kooks in, started crapping in the street and all credibility is gone. It's all over but the hypothermia.

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/10/26/the-anti-semites-of-occupy-wall-street/

umm, you could move?

LOL, zaruski!

Zaruski: Seems like Madison has a JOB to go to and PAYS RENT or PAYS A MORTGAGE so why should she, a responsible, tax paying citizen have to move because the deadbeats play bongos all night.

Sounds like you're not a 99%-er but rather a 46%-er.

Sweet dreams Madison!

Norm,

Gosh you are so right! This is why they are protesting!!! If you are a 46%-er than you are protesting for the right to have a job, and a place to go to work. Just think if we put the other 46% of Americans to work what the gross tax receipts would look like? Do you know how many roads we could pave, hospitals we could build and staff with this kind of money? Heck we could even pay for Obama's health insurance plan with this.

Madison, queen of "shut up and sit down" First Amendment principles.

zaruski

umm, you could move?

umm, they could move out of public parks and crap in grocery bags somewhere else?

Snorting with laughter, you are clueless and you still think you should post this trash. Wake up, read a book for a change, and stop commenting on things that you don't understand because you are the lazy fox.

Well, they are determined and good for them... I think they'll do well... maybe they can get Paul Revere to fire those shots and ring those bells and warn the British...now wait, he would only do that for the Wasilla Witch!! BWAHAHAHA!!!>>>>>>>>>> @OWS... no matter what the Fixed News crowd wants you to believe, the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS support you!!!

No matter what Adbusters says and wants you to believe, the majority of Americans is laughing their butts off at you.

wow, and folks want to call the protesters pu**ies. Sounds like a call to your city councilman asking them to appease them, or anything to quiet them down might be order...

Well, I guess we all know what it's like in the little Barbie world now.

Hey Barbie!!! Wake up! It is NOT a "Lefty" movement.

OK, I cannot expect a plastic person to understand something so obvious and simple to understand. After all, we all know that Barbies head is HOLLOW.

Hey EPA! Isn't incessant DRUM BEATING all night NOISE POLLUTION?

Also crapping in grocery bags.

And if they make it all winter? What then? You will still call them losers and give them no credence. I think anyone willing to sleep outside in New York city is pretty brave, especially when they could be staying in their parent's basements, as all the haters have been pointing out. They COULD go home, but they don't. Give them more credit than you do, these "worthless kids" are pretty tough to be out there. I think they need to find a goal and stick to it, but all that aside, they are tougher than you give them credit for.

I'll say they were wasting their time instead of doing something productive.

If they choose to lay about all winter begging for a hand-out, that's their problem.

I just don't want to pay the police and others to be forced to clean up after these slobs.

This isn't about being 'tough'.

As soon as the funds dry up and go away, so will they.

thats all in the eye of the beholder, but i think they think that trying to change the way our government works is considered productive.

Their parents won't let them sleep in the basement any longer. They are as tired as the rest of America giving this worthless crowd hand-outs.

I'm afraid that if they are still there in the spring I will seriously assume they don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.

outotlunch

I'm afraid that if they are still there in the spring I will seriously assume they don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.

They've proven that already.

or rather outtolunch that they are secure enough in their convictions that a little bit of rain, a few bean bag bullets to the head, and some snow are not going to make them leave their camps.

They are'nt "their" camps. They are squatters on public property that has definitive rules for anyone that wishes to use them.

MSNBC has an agenda:

Give moral equivalency to these squatters and elevate them to the TEA party status.

Unfortunately for MSNBC, most people have common sense.

"Everyone's been calling it our Valley Forge moment," said Michael McCarthy, a former Navy medic in Providence. "Everybody thought that George Washington couldn't possibly survive in the Northeast."

That was a quote from someone there. I would say that MSNBC is allowed to quote someone without having to answer to you.

Yes, but printing it makes MSNBC as dumb as the person who said it.

*sigh*

why would i argue with such a compelling statement DP? You have really opened my eyes to the world with that one.

*farting noises*

Glad to be of service!

proudamericanveteran

Please!!!!! How can MSNBC possibly compare these louts to the patriots who fought for freedom instead of demanding freebies?

Perhaps they do not have the proper experience for comparison. I doubt they've met a vet.

What "freebies" are they demanding, PAV? Go on, tell us.

well technically, anyone who buys a piece of gum has paid taxes, so get over yourself.

53% of working Americans pay Federal tax.

The rest? Leeches.

47% of wroking americans dont pay their taxes? hows that work out?

The scumbags the 47% work for don't even pay them enough to feed themselves, let alone pay taxes.

I'm gonna take a lead from a lot of posts I have seen and tell those 47% to go get another job lol but seriously everyone with a job pays taxes, regardless of how much they make. I worked for 6.50 an hour once (like 10 years ago), and I still paid federal taxes.

@AW: And how much did you get on your income tax return? We you being declared as a dependent by someone?

it was 10+ years ago, so i would assume at the time, yes my parents claimed me on their taxes. Regardless of if I got a tax return when I was 16-17, I did pay into the system. Back then I maybe got like 100 bucks or so back. Not as much as I paid into it, I know that.

@AW: If you make less annually than the standard deductions plus any other things, your tax liability is 0% and you'll actually be refunded all tax money collected. So, if you're married, 1 kid, your standard deduction will be about $16k, plus all other credits you get. Likely, you'll get a refund larger than you paid in taxes, if you make about 20k.

I say we force these underemployed losers to contribute, by increasing minimum wage to poverty level. That'll show 'em.

If you don't have illegal aliens taking jobs at less than minimum wage, Americans can have a living wage - if they are willing to work for a living instead of leeching off others.

Matt, you're not doing your side any favors. Your comments only make you look jealous.

@ AW from KC. You misspelled working even with spell-check man.

@ Steven, If we can get these young people to work and find high paying jobs for them even less people will be leeching off the system. Guess what these kids are protesting? High unemployment!!

@ Son of MollyM: Minimum wage is considered poverty! So it shows your lack of empathy. Go Stupid!!! LOL

Made me laugh, DP...

We call people who are followers sheep, so in essense, these people aren't sheep, because they have no leader.

Man, it's like the folks that feel they are in the 53% have forgotten the only certainties in life: Death and Taxes.

This applies high and low. No one gets out without paying them and EVERYONE is going to HAVE to PAY MORE in the future.... some a little more and some A LOT more.

AW Lemmings maybe?

HEY STEVE!! echo echo echo

I am one of the 53% who pay taxes. I can even say that I have no student loan debt because I never took out a loan for college because I worked through it and it took me 6 years. (of course it was much more affordable then, and If I didn't have my degree I could still get a decent paying job) As a matter of fact, the only debt I have is my mortgage, which will be paid for in 7 years. I have to say I am glad I did not listen to my conservative friends and buy "up" during the bubble.

Do not, for one second, think that the 53% tumbler blog comes close to representing 53% of the population. In fact, most of the stories on there show a deep need for education as most of them would fall in the dreaded 47%, but only the clueless ones. I am the 53% and I support OWS, as should you.

Thank you PJ! You for one sir are awesome. Remember PJ if you lost your job you might be part of the 47% No one is truly immune to the stupidity of bailing out Wall Street.

Gosh Dale, maybe if we broke up these mega corporations we would have a true democratic republic. Maybe we would have democracy and real capitalism.. Oh, wait... Being a capitalist instead of a corporatist is anti American, according to the republican party. Maybe we would have something close to what our founding fathers envisioned, broke British law for, stood up for.

Soon to be: Occupy Mom's Basement

Yeah, because the the teabaggers exported all the jobs, Matt.

LOL.. don't help them

I think making fires might give the cops a fake reason to try and break them up again. They might try throwing soup at them instead of paper plates and plastic forks then.

It makes about as much sense as confiscating their generators.

So these losers are even supporting BIG OIL by using fossil fuels for generators?

The protesters are making people realize how the vast majority of Americans are held hostage in a caste that makes low wages or no wages at all. The programmers of our society don't want anyone leaving that caste, so the knee-jerk reactions of scorn, hatred, and fear have been written into the programming. The program has been running for so long now that a generation of people has emerged who don't know what America was like before it was taken hostage by the Religious Right and corporate greed.

To put it bluntly, Americans have a massive case of Stockholm Syndrome.

Sarah

Well spoken. My only regret is that I cannot join in with the occupiers. Being on oxygen, I know I would only get in the way. But I sure do appreciate and admire them all.

Sarah1976

The protesters are making people realize how the vast majority of Americans are held hostage in a caste that makes low wages or no wages at all.

The "protesters" are making people realize that how the vast majority of Americans are glad they are not participating in a mass pity party, blaming everyone else for their "plight".

Most of the individuals in OWS NYC are artists, photographers, film producers, students and other self-important and self-indulgent, naive liberal arts types. "Woe is me!" is their plaintive wail, when the blame lies with the person in the mirror.

Because, that is what the sly fox wants you to see, Steve. That is what they want you and the other sheeple to think. It seems to be working out very well for them.

I strongly disagree wit every thing they stand for. Because the are a bunch of spoon fed little cry babies!!!!!!!!!!!!

You wer probably a hippie in the 60's that threw dog sh*& at the Vietnam Veterans.

I don't care if they sit in a park until next October if that is what they want to do, but if they can't state what it is they want how would they even know if they won? If they can't pay their bills because they don't have jobs, how is sitting in the cold going to help? At least a couple part time jobs could keep them current on the student loan until something better comes along. When a prospective employer asks them what they are currently doing do you think they are going to be impressed with "protesting in a park"?

This isn't the first generation whose dreams were deferred for a while for some reason or another. It was hard to get started in the 70's, the WWII generation had to defer life until they fought a war, the depression certainly was no cake walk, nor was WWI. And for a lot of people, past and present, all over the world, dreams deferred were permanent. At least we are living in a country and a time where you aren't dragged of to your death or to a gulag in the middle of the night.

I don't think they are lazy, I just think they are wasting their energy and time by protesting when they don't even have a clear message that they are trying to impart.

Dear outotlunch - Any war is fought in battles begun for different reasons but each one has an out come, win or lose. It is the effort of each battle that determines the outcome of the war.

GMatlack- No, I was not a hippie, my boyfriend at the time was in the Army. When he came home in 1968 and some people at the airport spit on him and called him a baby killer it made me cry because it hurt him so much. I am sorry if you thought what I had to say was inappropriate, but what you said about me was un-called for. Would YOUR mother be proud of you for speaking to an old lady that way?

They are in the process of learning one of lifes lessons - that there are achievers and loosers in all societies. The rest of the world does not owe any of them one damn thing.

Many of my generation had their dreams put on hold or never lived to realize them.

Some of them died in the jungles of Vietnam, committed suicide , or died from the effects of that war.

We were denied benefits for illnesses and wounds and carried the stigma of being a Vietnam Veteran.

These current protest are the way the Vietnam protest started. It probably won't be long before protest start over our recent wars.

We can not let the anger be turned on our present generation of Veterans

TAJ: You stated your opinion clearly and without malice towards anyone. I respect that. I support anyone using their rights to peacefully protest, which many of the OWS people are doing. However, when their right to protest infringes upon others rights or breaks the law, then it has to stop.

I agree with the protesters that Wall Street is out of control, but totally disagree with how they are protesting. They should be in Washington DC or outside of their state capitals. The lawmakers are the ones that can change things, not Wall Street. I also think that people who are totally intent on getting whatever they can financially have joined in the protest and have watered down the original intent.

This idea that all school loans should be forgiven is just silly. It is called personal responsibility, and we all have to take care of our own business. There are absolutely no guarantees in life, nil, none. You can do everything right and still lose. You can do everything wrong and still come out ahead.

If for some reason Obama's administration let's them not pay for their student loans, the rest of us will pay for it. Nothing is free. Taxes would have to go up for the middle class as well as those darn "rich" people to cover the costs.

I do foresee some harsh times ahead. I think more people will get hurt or even killed with these protests. Not sure where we as a society can go from here.

created equal is a lie told by people to make society feel better. the simple fact of life is there are have's and have not's for any number of reasons too numerous to name. sitting in a park is not going to further anyone's life. Do you really think that Wall Street gives a rat's a$$ about the protesters? like it will change anything? maybe they should use their new found clout to help each other network and find jobs instead. I am tired of all the complainers. it's called personal responsibility people.

Uh, GMatlack? In case you didn't notice, it's our current veterans who are marching with the Occupy Movement and getting brutalized by police on behalf of their corporate donors.

life.is.hard,

it is true that the law makers are part of the problem but why do you think they have not done anything about the situation yet? Why do you think they did not enforce the financial regulations that could have prevented 2008 from happening? Why do you think that Wall Street is also not part of the problem with the Government?

We have people like Soros, Norquist, and the Koch's who have their grubby hands on nearly everything our Government officials say or do. That is not how Government is supposed to work.

Geowil: I don't disagree, but it is still the lawmakers who can make it change. We need to vote out the career politicians, get rid of all lobbyists (regular, bundled, or however they come), and have campaign finance reform.

EMS is already taking care of them, every time the corporate donors have the police injure protesters. The sad thing is that one of the most common demands OWS calls for is an increase in police salaries, and funding so that police officers aren't forced to buy their own body armor.

Well yeah, because SOMEONE exported America's jobs overseas...

From what I have witnessed personally, most of the protesters appear to be anticapitalist, unemployable losers.

I will say this for them, though. They (along with the sympathetic media) have succeeded in diverting the public's attention away from Obama's failed administration and his out-of-control spending to "income disparity", just like the President wanted. Class warfare, baby!

Actually you are the disgrace. They are just continuing what your ancestors started.