Of course this is how the police do it these days. The DA is probably already has his hooks in the police chief, and wants this case brandished all over the news, so the DA can have his big spotlight moments. At the same time, he's doing his hardest to taint the jury pool, where everyone knows the situation and makes the mother look like the devil. It should be against the law for law enforcement to release any information other than what's needed for the safety of victims. In cases where there are leaks, the police should be accountable. There are no checks in the system to prevent the police and prosecutors from running over peoples' rights. Guilty until proven innocent in America.

and while they waste time here the kidnapper is long gone. Three eye witnesses have come forth and stated they saw a man in the early morning hours walking down the street caring a baby that same morning she disappeared yet you hardly hear anything about it.

You are right Cygnus. Guilty until proven inocent. As long as they get a conviction they don't care. It's why there are many innocent people serving time in our over crowded jails and why many people dont trust and sometimes hate police officers.

Will you all come back here and eat your words when it comes out that someone in that family killed the baby??

And cygnus...You must have been "wronged" by the police, yeah? You seem to hate them profusely. Sad really because when you need them you'll call them and they will help you regardless.....

chefaz-

We need the entire population to think just exactly as you do, convict the mom based on what the MEDIA has told you. Hurray for the American Justice System.

BTW, you ought to volunteer yourself for a prosecution juror.

We need more information, a hit in the floor of bradley bedroom, is there dna of the baby in that hit, we don't know

I guess that reading comprehension is not your strong point, DewBlossoms??? The word probably is within the sentence. Considering that it's already proven that Mom has been less than truthful and wasn't exactly a doting mother, there is certainly cause for concern. She is due her day in court although my heartfelt wish is that someone within the family took Lisa away for the sake of her safety, no other reason and that she is found soon - alive - and the cadaver dog is wrong.

chefaz. I sorta agree with you. If the cadaver dog reacted in the home, then something is wrong. Off subject. Nice ride. What is it? It's hard to tell in the picture, could it be a Cadillac?

As long we don't find a dead body or a skull , let's hope the baby of 11 months is alive

Rob, I know many people who's lives were wrecked by the whole system. It's so unforgiving, and neither are most self-righteous Americans. They all think theirselves and their kids are perfect until they're on the @!$%# end of the stick, then they really see how corrupt police, prosecutors, judges, lawyers, and the justice system are. It's all a cyclical money racket, and you don't want to get caught in the cogs, whether innocent or guilty. It doesnt give second chances, and you're labeled for life.

How long do you guys suppose that it takes a dead body to smell like a cadaver? How do you know that cadaver smell wasn't there from whoever owned the residence in the past? How do you all know so much? Murder experts? Mom drank wine (which is PERFECTLY legal, and I'm sure WAY more prevalent than you might think) and was probably feeling guilty about THAT, thus the time change of when she put the baby to bed. I honestly do not know if the family was involved, I cannot convict anybody based on POPULAR OPINION.

Thanks, lacywild. The sorry statistics show that it's the parents or someone close to the family in many cases of abuse, abduction or murder. The parenting skills have been less than what Lisa deserves and now this cadaver dog is showing something wrong.

I am sick and tired of seeing our children "thrown away" because of the selfishness, sickness, negligence or downright hatefulness of those who should be protecting them. If you don't want them, give them to someone who does. There are so many people who would treasure a child like Lisa and children are a treasure. I hope that someone close to Lisa took her away to get her out of that environment but they need to come forward before this goes on any longer, if this is what really happened.

Off topic, the vehicle is a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado convertible. I only wish that I owned it. Cadillac and classic vehicles are a passion for me.

Mom didn't just "drink wine." She got so drunk she can't even remember what she did that night or when. It doesn't matter how prevalent stupidity is. Stupidity is stupidity. If she can't remember, she blacked out. She did not drink responsibly. NO reason why she couldn't stop at one or two drinks and then call it a day. Instead she drunk herself into a stupor. She CAN'T remember, and a four hour difference is not a minor detail ! If it's illegal for a daycare provider to get drunk, it should be for a woman who's watching her OWN kids.

Cygnus...Will you call the Police when you need them?? Not ALL Police/Judges et al are corrupt and bad...There are crappy people in EVERY profession...Do you hate all convenience stores because some suck? How about grocery stores? Banks?(wait I think you'll answer yes for that one) How about big box stores?? I mean how much hate can one have towards anyone but themselves?

Cygnus / Rob - you both make good points. The problem is the system is run by humans. That should explain it all in a nutshell for both sides of the coin.

Really sad that this has turned into "the police, DA, and FBI" being corrupt and doing something wrong. Are all law enforcement officials "great" people? NO..are all doctors "great" physicians? NO...are all truck drivers "great" drivers? NO, and so on. The facts are that a 10 month old is missing. Mom gives interviews on TV and speaks through tearful sighs in absence of tears. Dad shows virtually no emotion what-so-ever. They do not touch each other, hold on to each other, and Mom makes NO DIRECT eye contact with the camera. Mom's story of the events leading up to the missing child report has changed dramatically...now she went to bed at approx 6:30-6:45pm because she drank too much wine. Come On!! You can see where this is going. Unfortunately, this is going to turn out very badly.

Once again, proven guilty by the media before any evidence is presented. Cadaver dog "hit" at the house. Could have hit on a dog biscuit

You obviously don't have a clue how the dog's work.

How long do you guys suppose that it takes a dead body to smell like a cadaver? How do you know that cadaver smell wasn't there from whoever owned the residence in the past?

DewBlossoms: Seriously???? Yeah, I'd go into a home and think to myself.. wow.. smells like a dead, decaying body, I'll buy this place!~

Which of course would also beg the question: who else then was murdered/killed in this house? wow...

And it only takes a few days for the smell, if that.

Once again, proven guilty by the media before any evidence is presented. Cadaver dog "hit" at the house. Could have hit on a dog biscuit

onermailliw: you have little knowledge of Cadaver Dogs.

Not arguing your point on the media, just on the dog "hit".

Generally the dog is accurate, they are trained to recognise decomp and they have incredible noses. I imagine the mother discovered the baby dead, probably due to neglect, (alcholic blackouts tend to create severe memory loss) and rushed to hide that fact, along with the child's body.

airrika, I wonder what your life is like? Ever got drunk and drove?Ever had to much?? mistake maybe....but how would you like to have friggin strangers judging you for all your past regressions?? I am very sure there are some....Usually people with that idiotic attitude are the worst offenders....The y judge others and don't fix their own pitiful selves....

people disgust me....really

That's why if I'm El Presidentee, with conflicting info and a court order I'd waterboard the parents in a situation like this right after I'm done with Bernie Madoff. How much money and time has been wasted on searches when a parrent KNEW the child was DEAD? Hopefully it's not the case here yet.

Over 20,000 American Service members have been waterboarded, a drunk passed out mother wouldn't hurt.

Cadaver dogs can smell a lot better than you can Jerry, they could smell traces of a dead body which we wouldn't even begin to detect. If it takes a few days for that smell well she must still be in there and they'll find her then since she wasn't missing for a few days before they called.

could be a decomposing dead rat underneath the floor... who knows?

I am a parent, too. I know I could never hurt my children and will guard them with my life if necessary. To believe that a mother is capable of killing her own beautiful baby is unthinkable. but then again, there have been so many cases about parents killing their own children intentionally, or by accident... I really don't know what to think any more.

Jerry-

The dogs are trained to hit on the smell of decomp that we HUMANS cannot smell. Otherwise, it would be a piece of piss, no dog necessary, right? How do you know a little old lady didn't die in her bed, in that room, years ago? The smell's still there, right? Your comment is an ignorant one.

Mac, that is precisely why you won't EVER be "El Presidentee"

wow. as I read these comments I begin to understand why an attorney could so easily place doubt in a jury's mind, brainwash them, and successfully win on behalf of Casey Anthony. Yes, EASILY. "coulda, shoulda, woulda". yeah sure, it's a COINCIDENCE that a cadaver dog picked up a hit.

-_-

Cygnus is absolutely right. Police don't care who did it as long as the can show a conviction. There have been plenty of stories done recently about INNOCENT people proven not guilty. Some with such evidence that it was amazing it even went to trial. It isn't "innocent until proven guilty" anymore, it is your are so guilty unless you have tons of money to pay for your innocence. It ALWAYS comes down to money. If you are poor and get a low scoring attorney who is a public defender, you might as well pack your shorts you are doing time. Timothy Masters in Colorado. PRIME EXAMPLE of our glorious justice system. Look it up. 10 years in prison for murder, had a public defender, and now the cops that investigated are facing charges. Crooked as hell. Wronged by the justice system??? You bet your sweet a**.

Cadaver dog "hit" at the house. Could have hit on a dog biscuit

This is the point where you walk away from this vine. You ignorance to how these dogs are trained is epic.

If the dog got a "hit", it got a hit of a cadaver. Doesn't mean it's the child, but it does mean a body has been in that structure at some point and not some dog treat left under the bed.

Ya, they would leave a dead baby laying on the floor long enough for it to start decomposing, and then that scent is going to still be there weeks afterwards. Give me a break.

What no one who keeps to the arguement" the dog got a HIT" will say on here is that cadaver dogs can smell decomposition but they can't tell the difference between animal and human remains. Watched a Dateline where a kid became the prime suspect in his friends death after a cadaver dog"got a HIT" in his back yard. They then proceeded to dig up the corpse of a previous family pet. And just the other month investigators in the Susan Powell case "got a hit" out in the desert, spent the day digging and reporting "human remains" were found and in the end it was BS and they found nothing. Didn't stop them from leaking the lie to the press though. If left a peice of raw chicken to rot in my house I'd probably "get a HIT" from a cadaver dog.

Having a lot more knowledge of SAR training, if trained canine "hits" on a spot I'd be inclined to believe the dog. They don't hit on dead squirrels or cabbage patch dolls, only the scent of human decomposition.

If the death was an accident, why all the deception? The police should contact child protection and take those 2 other children out of those parent's hands. The mother by her own admission is unfit. Appoint a legal guardian for those boys and get them the help they need.

They know their little sister is dead. They heard everything that went on.

Due process is one thing. Being gullible is another. Maybe momzilla down there thinks she can take a page from Casey Anthony and get off of doing any time if there is no body found.

That dog hitting on a specific spot close to the mother's bed is something that can't be cried away. Hell yeah, they're gonna arrest her and at that point the dead child will get some justice.

Another baby dead to Xanax maybe.

A lot of things do not add up so far. No noise made, noone else in home that heard anything. Baby didn't cry. Took awhile for mom to state she was drinking. Perhaps the mother is covering for someone she loves as much as she does that baby. When you lose one person you love, you do not want to risk losing another.

They haven't gotten a thing. As stated further along in the article, the dogs also recocognize residual scent of a body that is no longer there. What? The parents had Lisa decomposing on the floor? Under it? Obviously not. The police are grasping at straws. Did the media see the floor being torn up? No. The police have NOTHING.

Go do a bit of research on cadaver dog training. A properly trained dog is trained to distinguish human remains from animal remains. There are decomp chemicals used that are specific to human decomposition. Then you have the body farms, they examine the remains of humans in all states of decomposition. There is some science involved here.

As to the rate of decomposition, it happens the moment of death. There are changes beginning immediately, the bowels and bladder release and then the decomp gases begin. Without the heart pumping oxygen, the blood pools, lividity begins as does rigor mortis. There are two stages of rigor, and much depends on the weather, the humidity and a host of other factors as to determining the rates of decompostion.

I don't have knowledge of SAR training but, I know what I've seen. Sorry I don't believe you over "my lying eyes". And if I remember right the prosecution trying Casey Anthony couldn't prove if the hit was decomposition due to human remains or the remains of a long forgotten hamburger.

It depends on the accuracy of the dog and its trainers. Furthermore, what are the police trying to insinuate? The parents left the body to decompose on the floor-left it in JUST ONE spot? There could be any number of reasons for decomposing smells on the floor. Maybe Lisa's diapers leaked, maybe one of the family puked by the bed. Maybe the mother left a used sanitary pad on the floor. Etc.

The bowel and bladder of a deceased person do not always immediately release. Nonsense. The smell of decomposition does NOT begin instantaneously. That's nonsense.

chefaz. I'm going off subject one more time. Yea, Classic Cadillacs are beautiful. My passion is the 73 Lincoln Continental. I have one sitting out, back but she needs a little work.

I'm with you, I am really tired of people throwing their kids away and can't understand why they have them in the first place.

There would be no odor if a dead body laid on the floor for a few minutes after death. As a matter of fact, a dead body can lie in a room for several hours in warm weather, and there will be no noticeable odor to the human nose.

Lou77777 -

True...not detectible to the human nose...but dogs in general have a much more sophisticated sense of smell that we do, especially with highly trained dogs such as those in the article.

different things put off different smells when they decompose...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuY44PHC0wI

It's unfortunate the police/prosecution don't realize how they poison their own case by talking so much out of turn. When they fail to support their inflated publicized claims at trial another Anthony will walk away.

Second-rate investigators established that Clayton Hartwig was a faggot who blew up the Iowa and Richard Jewell was the Atlanta bomber, and will forever be perceived that way, when in truth both were American heroes.

It's the police who should clam.

Time for the parents to watch the Casey reruns and pray for 12 idiots!!!

TexasChick-I was only referring to the human nose in regard to the odor being undectable in a body that's been dead for a few hours in warm weather.

As to the cadavar dogs, they would not be able to detect a body that has been dead for only a few minutes. A dead body does not give off a special odor if it's been dead only a few minutes.

mygirl1 is correct the accuracy of properly trained dogs is incredible and if they were brought in from the FBI it is pretty certain they have been well trained and had previous experience.

Lou - regarding your post #1.37, decomposition does indeed begin immediately following death. There are many stages that a dead body exhibits before the smell can be detected by humans. That's why cadaver dogs and their highly developed sense of smell are utilized in cases like this.

It's hard to trust anything about the cadaver dog. Go check an article/investigation about dogs and crime here in Texas. As it turns out, though dogs are trained, they do have a lot of false positives, and they also tend to give 'positive' signals when the directing officer needs a 'hit'. This is usually a good method to assist in getting a full warrant. The downside is the dogs are wrong too often, and the dogs also take too much feedback from the handler.

All that being said, the article said they were digging in the backyard on Wednesday. I am guessing they didn't find anything since it's now Friday evening. I have no idea where this will go. There is no reason to even speculate, as I am fairly sure the cops will have more information than what has been released to the media.

Lou, decomposition starts immediately, and if you remember the weather was hot when this happened.

From www(dot)biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.

I'm just concerned about that baby! If they're looking for a corpse does that mean they are no longer looking for a live infant? Are they presuming the baby is dead?

This has been one of the oddest stories with police accusing the parents of not cooperating, the parents accusing the police...some rich benefactor putting up reward money, the mother hiring an attorney, and on, and on.

And really, IF they charge the mother, how will she ever get a fair trial? Every step of this case has been reported by the media. We all espouse our personal opinions sitting in front of our computers judging people by the media's printed words, which is the LAST place I would want to be judged! I'm sure we could all agree on that point.

I would just like to know where that baby is, and if she's safe! No judgments, no criticism, no jumping to conclusions, no speculation on who did it...because we don't know yet who may have done what.

I've taken care of literally 10's ( <100 I hope!) of folks who passed away in an ICU environment. And it's cold there. Yes, even in that environment we of course begin decomposition immediately. And yes, smells even to human senses can come around pretty quick. I'd suspect if the Dog hit, it was decomposed Human flesh.

But that isn't really the curious part. What I want to know is, what/Who did that dog hit on? And then of course we'll know why he hit.

Sad! I feel for the rest of that family!

tomwise-

You are very right, decomposition begins immediately after death, and when a body is in a warm environment, that process accelerates very quickly. A dog can sense decomp at the molecular level, where as humans normally sense it visually or smell it at an accelerated level. Animals other than humans have highly refined senses, above and beyond humans generally.

As a mother, my heart weeps for that child.

Sorry, but no cadaver dogs have been trained on a body dead only a few minutes. NONE. You are giving dogs some special power they just don't have. The decomposition of a body dead only a few minutes will NOT be giving off any smell that any cadaver dog can pick up.

"Recently deceased" - as in how long? Sorry, it wasn't minutes.

Please note that the 10 minutes referred to in your quote, Kai, is the length of time the deceased had been laid on the carpet, not how soon after death the body was put on the carpet. I guarantee you that none had been dead only minutes.

I see that it said "within THREE HOURS after death, not MINUTES after death.

That area of town is not new. The houses were built in the 1950's and 60's. It is possible that someone died in that house at some point in time. I do know that a cancer patient who is at the point of death has and leaves a smell. I will wait until they can prove that someone in the family did something or not. The neighbors and the people at the local businesses seem to have liked these people.

Anything is possible, and pygme brings up a valid point. It just seems like all the investigation has brought up is more questions, and nothing even close to answers.

Lou, I am aware the corpse was 3 hours old and the carpet squares were placed under the corpse for a few minutes. I was searching for how old a corpse has to be to leave detectable odors for a canine to pick up. The post was part of the conclusion of one study.

"The neighbors and people at local businesses" liked Ted Bundy, too.

Lou7777777 - decomposition of a body begins when the heart stops:

Once the heart stops, chemical changes occur within the body and result in changes in pH, causing cells to lose their structural integrity. The loss of cell structure brings about the release of cellular enzymes capable of initiating the breakdown of surrounding cells and tissues.

Wiki : Decomposition

Those are molecular changes in the deceased - just like some dogs can SMELL cancer cells - cancer cells are different and the dog can tell, so a strange pH in a body will trigger a dog. Cadaver dogs have been known to find corpses from WW II - much more of their brain/nerves/etc is dedicated to smell.

Perhaps the baby fell off the bed her drunk mother was in, perhaps the parents are monsters who killed their child, perhaps someone broke into the house, killed the baby, set it on the floor, realized the passed out mother was no threat and left the house with the corpse.....we don't know. Innocent until proven guilty - it's how you would want to be treated.

Fresh Decomposition

The fresh stage begins immediately after the heart stops beating.^[5] Since blood is no longer being pumped through the body it drains to the dependent portions of the body, under gravity, creating an overall bluish-purple discolouration termed livor mortis or, more commonly, lividity. Shortly after death, within three to six hours, the muscular tissues become rigid and incapable of contraction which is known as rigor mortis. From the moment of death, the body begins losing heat to the surrounding environment, resulting in an overall cooling called algor mortis.^[6]

Once the heart stops, chemical changes occur within the body and result in changes in pH, causing cells to lose their structural integrity. The loss of cell structure brings about the release of cellular enzymes capable of initiating the breakdown of surrounding cells and tissues. This process is known as autolysis. Visible changes caused by decomposition are limited during the fresh stage, although autolysis may cause blisters to appear at the surface of the skin.^[7]

Oxygen present in the body is quickly depleted by the aerobic organisms found within. This creates an ideal environment for the proliferation of anaerobic organisms. Anaerobic organisms, originating in the gastrointestinal tract and respiratory system, begin to transform carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins, to yield organic acids (propionic acid, lactic acid) and gases (methane, hydrogen sulphide, ammonia). The process of microbial proliferation within a body is referred to as putrefaction and leads to the second stage of decomposition, known as bloat.^[5]

Fresh Decomposition

The fresh stage begins immediately after the heart stops beating.^[5] Since blood is no longer being pumped through the body it drains to the dependent portions of the body, under gravity, creating an overall bluish-purple discolouration termed livor mortis or, more commonly, lividity. Shortly after death, within three to six hours, the muscular tissues become rigid and incapable of contraction which is known as rigor mortis. From the moment of death, the body begins losing heat to the surrounding environment, resulting in an overall cooling called algor mortis.^[6]

Once the heart stops, chemical changes occur within the body and result in changes in pH, causing cells to lose their structural integrity. The loss of cell structure brings about the release of cellular enzymes capable of initiating the breakdown of surrounding cells and tissues. This process is known as autolysis. Visible changes caused by decomposition are limited during the fresh stage, although autolysis may cause blisters to appear at the surface of the skin.^[7]

Oxygen present in the body is quickly depleted by the aerobic organisms found within. This creates an ideal environment for the proliferation of anaerobic organisms. Anaerobic organisms, originating in the gastrointestinal tract and respiratory system, begin to transform carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins, to yield organic acids (propionic acid, lactic acid) and gases (methane, hydrogen sulphide, ammonia). The process of microbial proliferation within a body is referred to as putrefaction and leads to the second stage of decomposition, known as bloat.^[5]

@ Cygnus X1

Some people are quick to criticize the police for doing their job, accusing them of putting this story into the media to put pressure on the parents and paint them as guilty, to quickly bring a conclusion to the crime investigation.

The reason the media is publishing this story about the cadaver dog alerting to the scent of human decomposition in the parents' bedroom is because it was written in the police affadavit filed in order to acquire the right to do an extensive search of the Irwin house and property. This affadavit is a matter of public record and reporters acquired a copy of it and published the contents. (I read that in a published news story when the news broke.) The police did not hold a press conference or issue a press release about what the cadaver dog found.

Be glad the police are investigating and following the leads they are given as well as the evidence they find. It's their job.

No one wants to believe parents would harm their own child and then lie about it on such a grand scale, betraying the community they live in and the wider public, as well as costing an enormous amount of money and time to investigate a false report of abduction or disappearance of a child. But it happens, all too often. People don't want to be convicted of crimes they have committed. Unfortunately, most people don't have the courage to own up to their mistakes if it means giving up their freedom, and for all intents and purposes, their lives as they know them now.

These parents have been badmouthing the police from almost the beginning. Then the private eye spoke out on their behalf and now the attorneys are on attack against the police. It seems to me the parents' interest has been demonstrated to be protecting themselves and not in finding out what happened to their baby. It is in their interest that the public believes the police are not conducting this investigation properly and is likely one of the planned defenses to be used, if one or both parents are charged with a crime. The parents and their mouthpieces are trying to create reasonable doubt in the public's mind by their statements about the police and their investigation now.

The police will proceed with the investigation, following where the evidence takes them, despite whatever criticisms are directed at them.

The cadaver dog may have alerted on an object or clothing lying on the floor in the parents' bedroom, which means the object could have been in contact with the dead body somewhere else and then ended up in the bedroom. The body didn't have to be in the bedroom itself for traces of human decomposition to end up there.

CrackNJack, I hope you don't mean that! If you do you are no better than a murderer yourself! You hope someone else loses a child? What a friggin' idiot you are. May God have mercy on your soul.

CrackNJack is a troll trying to start a flame session...

CrackNJack is right...There are a lot of judgments going on here. But he should not wish such things on another. I understand the frustration of seeing how quick people are to judge. Sometimes these things seem more like a Maury Povich or Jerry Springer show where the audience open's their big mouths to boo someone they think did wrong, and when the tests come back to show the person is either not the father or have managed to pass their lie detector test, then they are cheering for them.

hey crack you don't have all the information about this at all...you really need to read up on the kansas city news and then say something....according to the police out there they have been looking very guilty and the mother publicly changed her stories a few times in interviews and also did you know the apparent "kidnappers" turned all the lights on in the house too? also the mother drank herself into a pisser and said herself in another interview she doesnt even know when she put the baby to bed. read it all again from beginning to end and then start speaking jack

No, I think CrackNJack has had some issues with law enforcement perhaps?

Mary, you are the type he meant. "I done heard on the news out in Kansas City that they're sayin'....The cops is sayin' she done changed her story six or eleven times".. Cops lie, they do it to catch criminals, they do it to the media to, also catch criminals and just because you heard it on tv doesn't make it true. The very idea that people believe everything they read in the paper or hear on the news is ridiculous beyond measure.

Casey Anthony Part Deux.

I believe what Crack was trying to say is, you deserve to get rolled by the cops over something like this. Law enforcement methods are totally out of control, and innocent people are convicted....even executed....on a regular basis.

It doesn't MATTER that this lady is a drinker, that she covered up her story, that the dad is stoic, that the cadaver dog got a "hit" on the house. NONE OF THAT MATTERS! It does NOT prove her guilt, OR innocence! Don't any of you get this? That's why we have a justice system. Her guilt must be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt". NONE of the actions mentioned make this lady deserve to be called a murderer. You all that think she's guilty, you have watched WAYYY too much TV.

THey haven't "found" her yet. They HIT on something. Don't pass judgement yet. Try to keep thinking positive that in some miracle this baby is alive. God hope that baby is alive. Many have already convicted people, maybe rightfully so, but nobody has proof yet. That is what is wrong. Wait for the proof.

Dew,

Thinking and proving are two different things entirely.

We all have the right to state our opinion - that's kind of the point of this vine.

However, stating our opinion or thoughts on the matter in no way proves that the mother, father, etc. did or didn't do it.

That job will fall in the hands of 12 of our peers at trial, if someone is arrested and it makes it that far.

Also of note is that we can call anyone anything we want to, as long we we're not violating Newsvine rules. I can call you a super-duper poopy head, but that doesn't mean you are one, right?

Not judgements.......jut opinions.

GeorgiaGal,

Feel free to call me a poopy-doopy head if you want. I respect the right for people to have opinions....I just am really unsure why so many of them are STUPID ones, with guilt or innocence already presumed. Would you want any of these people on YOUR jury that are so quick to jump to conclusions? I think not.

She is still at fault for being drunk at the time!

Ro-at fault for what? Irresponsibility? Sure, but that doesn't make her guilty.

Perhaps we should visit the idea of "licensing" people to have children. That way, we'll make absolutely sure those kids are raised right.

I'm an extremely average mom in a blue-collar hard working family. My kids are 18 and 22 now. At this point in their lives, I can comfortably go out and drink with my husband and friends and have a good time and maybe even get a little drunk if I want to... but when they were 11 months old?? Absolutely not, not EVER. Even with my kids being "adults", there is not one night I would ever not at least check in with them and be aware of what they're doing and where they are for the night before I go out and do my own thing.

As a parent, my biggest fear is that the one time I am unreachable or unavailable or God-forbid too drunk to be of any help is the one time one of them is in a bad car accident or needs me to come help them. Isn't that how most of you parents feel?? I cannot even imagine having an 11 month old baby and being drunk enough that I can't remember putting her to bed.

I'm not in any position to judge innocence or guilt of the crime, I just have a hard time getting past the part where she was drunk enough to black out. That just doesn't add up to a devoted mom to me, sorry.

i said don't get why parents DO this. not DID this.

Maybe because some of them have kids like CrackNJack?? :)

Don't go getting yourself all in an uproar, now, CNJ. Lighten up.

You clearly insinuated that the parents did THIS.

when you are innocent you do not lie. you have nothing to hide, and timelines do not change. and you cooperate with police, and you ask your children if they saw or heard anything since you were out drunk in bed.

menscar... simply not true. many people will lie so that they don't "sound" guilty. for example, the mother may have left out the part about her drinking because it would make her sound more guilty. i know i would if i did something thats totally irrelevant, like her drinking was, during the time of the kidnapping. i wouldn't want to look more suspicious or at fault. the truth is you don't know how you would act in this circumstance because it is a terrrible one to be in. her night probably was a blur you simply don't remember EVERYTHING you do in any given night because you don't think you will need to remember

Her drinking is no irrelevent, she was responsible for the care of 3 young children and chose to get drunk to the point that she did not hear anyone come into her house and take her child...she also chose to lie about when she last saw the missing baby, which is not going to make finding the baby any easier...sorry but those behaviors are enough to raise suspicion in my opinion.

I get what you mean. Your not saying these parents are guilty in this case , but just the question since it has come up, of why in Gods name, do parents do this. I think the CSI, DNA and Cadaver dogs will tell the story. Hopefully the guilty party will be convicted. Not like the last poor excuse for a trial. And a forgotten baby.

Why do you think this??

I just want to know why he/she thinks of all people it was the father? Why not the mother, or one of the boys??

I could be eating my words later but I don't think the dad did anything wrong but love and trust his girlfriend.

DDD, I am not accusing anyone. As I've tried to tell many touchy people (like CrackNJack), no one here is blaming anyone. This is a mystery; we are simply tossing opinions back and forth.

That being the case, DDD, I've thought it was the dad (husband, whatever--the guy who has been standing with her on TV) all along. Guy is freaky. If Mom did it and is acting, she's a darned good actress, better than Susan Smith, Casey, anyone I've seen.

Hopefully, we'll know one day.

CrackNJack, this seems to be personal with you. Want to share?

The cadaver dog could hit on a spot that a dead "something" had been placed but not necessarily be buried. Maybe it was clothes that had held the dead "something" and had been dropped there & left the scent.

Just to throw it out there, the mom COULD have accidentally killed (or purposely) the baby, panicked, put the other kids to bed, left the house & the kids alone, and disposed of the baby before the dad came home. Then, in her grief (guilt) she drank her bottle of wine and passed out in her son's bed. Maybe the baby was her "link" to the dad and she figured without the baby he would kick her and her sons out. This is just another scenario so don't beat me up!!

Hi, SuzeeQ. Or the cadaver dog could have hit on anything. Or maybe the cadaver dog didn't hit at all and the cops are just saying that.

Uh...........I spent some time in the courtroom and I'll tell you what. Oh, boy....here it comes. How shall I put this?

Well, I guess I'll put it right out there: many cops seem to become ........ frustrated to the point where they will raise their right hands and swear to God they are telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth............and not tell the truth. All courtroom personnel will tell you if a cop is on the stand and talking then.........

'Nuff said.

I work with a dog handler and she said she can have her dog alert anytime she wants. Flash a treat to a dog and see if he does what you want him to do or not.

Imatthebeach

Shame on you for saying such a thing. And how much courtroom expertise do you have? You simply assume that a Police Officer just gets up in court, and lies. Are you kidding me? For what purpose? They go through rigorous training, financial and criminal background checks, polygraph anaylsis to be hired, work in a para-military environment, rush in to save a life when ever the call comes out for a perfect stranger, work all hours of the day and night, holidays, weekends, miss their kids birthdays, anniversary's, continue extensive training days required by most states each month, get called names by drunks, spit at, shot at, and leave home at the beginning of each shift not really knowing if they will come home to hug their kids that night or next morning again. But according to you, they are just there to LIE in court. I don't know what courtroom personnel you know other than perhaps the deputy you check in with when you have to appear, but police "cops" have no incentive to lie in court. Losing their jobs, retirement, benefits, and going to jail is not worth being a liar in court.

Wasn't the Dad at work?

That's their story, and I would imagine that he has co-workers so that ought to be pretty easy to verify.

I'm assuming DDD stated the father did it because in other story's that is what happened.

I saw where a mother let her live-in boyfriend beat her kids. She said that she loved him. When one of her sons died from the abuse, the woman lied about what had happened. (Later changing her story, but NEVER telling the whole truth.) She knew what her bf had done and tried to cover it up. She is in prison for the rest of her life. (Serves her well for letting this man abuse her children, especially to the point that one of her children died from the abuse.) This guy beat the kids, burned them, burned/scalded them with hot water, left them for days at a time tied up in a closet. The kids had scars all over them, were severely malnourished, etc. But she "loved" him. (One of the responding officers stated that he went "sick" when entering the room where the boy had died. The officer even remembered the horrible sights/smell.) I remember seeing it in the news but I can't remember her name.

Or, this mother could be like that crazy lady that drove her car into the lake with her kids locked in the car with her. (One kid survived because he said that his mom "changer her mind" but it was too late, the car sank to fast and he was the only one that could get out in time and he was too little to help his siblings.)

Anyway, I hate when the media gets involved. OK, sometimes it helps. Like putting up pics of suspects that killed people in FL and ran all the way to Colorado/Nevada area before getting caught, because somebody saw their pics in the news and called the state troopers. Or putting out an Amber alert with kids pic, so people can help in the search and/or keep a lookout for the child. IMHO, usually the media wants a "bigger story" so they sensationalize the whole thing.

LindaAllen01, Why would they lie? For the very reason I stated in my post: they are frustrated with the system. Your rant has nothing to do with the fact that people whose careers are in the courtroom know, trust me, that cops will and do lie. Your rant is totally off topic. Of course cops do and are all those wonderful things. They also are known for lying in the courtroom, simple as that, whether you like it or not. It's easily understandable. Your "rationale" that they wouldn't risk losing their jobs, retirement benefits, etc. is just plain silly. Of course most of them are smart enough to lie only when they know it can't be proven.

I have years of experience in the courtroom. I will leave it to those who know me personally to judge my "expertise". How much time have you spent in the courtroom?

Your insulting comment about my "checking in with" a deputy when I appear in court is so far off the mark. Shame on you, LindaAllen.

Imatthebeach...Did you know that Defense attorneys lie and *gasp* criminals and people in trouble?? Odd isn't it....

Rob68, Of course I know that. I was simply offering something from my experience in the courtroom.

When I was at a very tender age, we had a particularly heinous rape case on an elderly woman and I asked the Public Defender representing the accused how on earth he could do that kind of work. Simple: he replied he believes in the American justice system; that all people are entitled to a defense. Hard to swallow at the time but that is our system and no one has come up with a better one yet, IMO.

No offense anyone. I am simply speaking from my experience.

Imatthebeach

Boy, the minute someone comments on your comment, they are accused of being off topic and engaging in a "rant". Sounds like all your COURTROOM experience has been less than rewarding for you. If you are really that interested in how much time I've spent in a courtroom, I'll be perfectly honest with you....but ofcourse you can take that with a grain of salt....because as you say....I would just probably be lying!!!!

LindaAllen01, You start off your post to me with "shame on you" and go into a rant about how wonderful cops are and then you want the last word, too. Well come ahead and get it, if that's what you want. As I said, I'm not saying cops do not do good things.

Oh, why bother? You obviously personalized my comment. I don't care what you think. Go treat someone else like a 2-year-old with your "shame on you".

And have a nice day. :)

Imatthebeach... You began your comment about all your courtroom expertise on cops lying in court. The minute someone on Newsvine commented about your post, you took offense and wanted it to be personal. I don't know what your issue is with law enforcement and the court system, but you obviously have a negative one as evidenced in your writings. There is nothing personal about this comment, but when someone uses a public forum to talk badly or make inflamatory statements about a group of people or a profession, we all have the right to voice our comment regarding that post. That is the purpose of public discussion. If you took offense to the words "shame on you" and felt like you were being addressed as a 2 year old, well then shame on me for making you feel that way. But I'm surprised that would be so highly offensisve to you in light of your comment. You have a nice day too.

EastCoastMom- all that is needed to do, is have social services take those 2 boys out for their own good, then appoint a Guardian AdLitum, get them some counseling and within the Guardian's power is the legal ability to have law enforcement have the ability to talk at length with them.

Social Services would not leave them alone during the questioning either.

Those poor children living with that nightmare replayed in their heads night after night and who knows what kind of emotional blackmail the parent's are using with them. The mother is unfit by her own words and the father looks emotionally vacant.

I hope those 2 parents also get presented with the bill for all these searches.

As far as any story that comes out of Bradley's mouth, she's lost her credibility a long time ago.

A cadaver dog will hit on ANY decomposition...Even if a body layed there for a day it decomposes....And if a body was moved it will still sense something....

They actually will rarely hit on non human remains....

hmmm I wonder what baby poo smells like to a dog after 3 weeks? Nahhhh the child was never in the bedroom and leaked.

Human decomp does NOT smell like a baby's poopy diaper! Before making such ignorant comments, do your research!

JackNCrack..Try actually reading something before you spout off...People will take what you have to say much better...Unless you don't care...

I'm not defending the "dog"...Just stating what I know from experience....But no..How does that "story" go??

And trusty...baby crap doesn't smell like dead flesh after 3 weeks..So yeah....

Dogs have different levels of exertise. Suppose that the child had crawled on the floor a while back, would any scrapings still smell like a living child or a dead one?

It really depends on how well and how much continuing training the dog got/gets. I had the job of helping police do high school drug searches. The dogs did find some drugs occasionally. But what they found mostly was brown bag lunches, candy, snacks, or nothing. Now nothing doesn't mean the kid did not have a jacket that had a weed smell from the kid smoking weed while wearing it. But if I had bought the dogs my local police departments did I would have wanted my money back.

We have a chase here where a few years ago a woman was brutally murdered in the basement of her ex-boyfriend/killer. The found the bloody mattress. Blood on the wall. And the samurai sword with her blood on it hung up on the wall. But, they never recovered her body.

Just this past month on a tip from informers AND equipment used to detect bodies...They went back to the same house and dug up the killer's parent's porch because at the time of the murder, they were doing construction in that same area. And despite all the positive indicators shown, no body was recovered, not even a small piece of the slain woman.

Technology and dogs and eyewitness accounts are only but so good.

And lets not forget a dog was able to smell the scent of decomp in Casey Anthony's car...We all see how well that worked out.

MLI that's because Casey's daughter was trasnported in her car...Because the courts let her go means nothing....The system failed and she's scot-free.....

mlirons.......how come then cadaver dogs are named that for a reason.....what do we call dead bodies in a morgue? and we still don't know about casey anthony she could be a lincoln lawyer for all we know, ever watch it? i still dont believe her anyways but she could have put that garbage there and left it because she needed to cover the smell of dead body and made herself a good case in court.

This was an FBI dog. If the dog hit on a spot, it was human decomposition.

Rob & Mary, the thought is not IF the dogs are able to smell a dead body or not, but if they were actually able to POSITIVELY detect decomp and of what. And the mention of Casey Anthony is for illustration only.

I don't know how many people are familiar with the Susan Powell case (she's a woman who has been missing since Dec. 2009 I believe). A cadaver dog came across some charred pieces of wood and reacted. The detectives CANNOT prove if it has anything to do with the case or not, because it is not really the smell of death at tracks the dogs, but the possible trace evidence of human remains. That could mean blood drops, pieces of skin, etc. And it is not necessarily specific to ONE individual, but to just the presence of possible human remains.

It is possible that human remains could have been smelled...Does it mean it is Lisa? Does it mean she is dead? Is it possible the smell is of some part of her that might of been left there due to a previous injury?

In short, the smell the dogs have are FAR from conclusive to what is going on in this case and it requires further investigation to prove positive or negative what the dogs reacted to. Why they did. And if it is a smoking gun.

And, as far as the Casey Anthony case...It has been questioned if the dogs had a false positive in the backyard and on the car.

ML...cadaver dogs smell decomposition of human tissue....An injury would not cause that....

Rob-what about gangrene? or necrotizing fascitis?

Rob...I can only tell you what others say. I myself am not an expert in what a cadaver dog can smell or not smell. I go to those who have experience in such things and weigh the argument with the evidence. This is not the first time I have heard were there have been a mistaken identity based on drug/decomp sniffing dogs activities.

All that is being said Rob is that until tests are done, a 'hit' could be true or false. And that people are using wisdom before they point towards a person's guilt just because a dog smelled something.

In the Susan Powell case, the lead they're working suggests that a body was burned in that spot.

Really Dew?? Pull that one from your butt did you??

They are not "white trash". These are not "white trash houses", however you define it. This is in a typical middle class neighborhood in Kansas City... low crime... hard working... parks... city services... the whole thing!

You haven't a clue.

Ahhh yes, the old "but we're really middle class" argument. She is still married to someone thats not the babies father. That qualifies for white-trash. If the shoe fits...

you can't post because you haven't been vetted by the moderators Crack. Give it a few dozen posts and a couple weeks.. it's automated. Just follow the "etiquette? rules, like not calling folks names or threatening lives and you can eventually post links.

Oh and get them collapsed by the community like max below. Community collapsing some times makes zero sense but a green moderator spanking will get you suspended for a day, week, month, perm

I didn't say NEVER. You should really learn how to read. Or is it comprehension thats your problem? And you are berating me about computer usage? How did you do that without a computer, oh great person-that-lives-in-a-glass-house?

Clueless in Detroit... was that a movie?

But you are still sitting at a computer, having an argument with me. Funny how that brings you down to my level. BTW, I'm corporate IT and I'm in the middle of a server upgrade so I have some time to kill. You should really attend to your customers.

How do you know they're white trash?

lucy - read the above posts. White trash isn't as much your income as your actions.

Instead of arguing with each other, let's try to come up with something POSITIVE. We shouldn't characterize any of the players in this story. Just because she is still married to someone else and has a child with this guy does NOT make her white-trash. We don't know the reason behind it. Just because someone doesn't hold the same values as you do does NOT make them trash.

We need to focus on the missing baby and what might have happened to her, IF the mom is now telling the truth...fully, and if there was any merit to the man carrying a baby story.

Let's hope someone thought she was a lousy mother and took the baby to take better care of her than her mother has. Then she might still be alive. HOPE is all we have.

"Just because she is still married to someone else and has a child with this guy does NOT make her white-trash."

hahahahahahahahahahaha
Ok, ok, ok. I gotta ask: What is YOUR definition white-trash?

Detroit Storm--going off your assumptions i would assume your a black, unemployed, welfare recepient. Sad part about it is i'm probably correct with that assumption.

I wouldn't go that far... but I do have to ask of Detroit: You originally spoke of "white trash house", then you defended your assessment baseed on her "actions". Is the house white trash? Or is she white trash? Or are you just full of it?

I can tell you it's not the house or the neighborhood because I live just blocks away and personally know the neighborhood. And since neither you nor I have any idea what she is like, we really can't make any other judgements... right?

Corporate IT? I used to work for Lucent Technologies supporting IT groups all over... good luck with the upgrade.

Is it just me, or there children on this sight? Too bad freedom of speech does not mean it has to be intelligent. What was the purpose of breaking down into calling people derogatory names? And what does it say about the sprouters of such childish words?

Miss Deanna: My definition of white trash is Lindsay Lohan!

i wish everyone could think like you. i truly hope this baby is found alive and well, but i truly doubt that will happen. we all have different views on what has taken place, but don't we all look for a happy outcome? i certainly hope so. however, resorting to calling people names, and telling them they are stupid or worse, what does that say about us? we all have our idea of what the outcome will be. why are so many people acting like they belong on the jerry springer show?

Jerry Springer is the perfect defination of White Trash!. He was taken to task about his show based on taking a group of white ignorant people, paying them to act like they were stupid. He had to pay a fine for his lies. Those people are just like actors, except they are just people that don't mind acting like white trash.

wow, why bring up jerry springer, these actors are happy to be getting paid , did you know he has a nice show called "Baggage" it very funny

That means the dog detected the scent of a dead body at the home. These dogs are extremely accurate. It isn't enough evidence to charge anyone, but it is a powerful investigative tool. It can tell the police that they are on the right track in their investigation. The evidence is mounting that the mom may have killed this baby- perhaps accidentally, or not. She may have disposed of the body to cover it up. She failed a polygraph, now this. The police are doing their job. I hope too that they are wrong, and the baby will be found alive, but it is looking bad at this point.

The "hit" is it picked up the scent of decaying human flesh. Did you read what the article said? These dogs are highly trained and very rearly react to nothing. Possible evidence was taken in order to find something before they lock up anyone. The parents have not been locked up yet, sadly, too often, these missing kids do turn up to of been harmed by the parents or a family member.

So what are you saying? That the parents kept the dead body by the bed? Or rested a rotting body there for a short amount of time? Very impressive. Or are you saying that a body dead for a few minutes gives off an odor? Sorry, they don't. And, contrary to what mygirl1 states above, not every body loses control of their bowels and bladder when they die.

The police are grasping at straws. They have found nothing. No body. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

The dog got a "hit" of decaying human flesh. Can you read?? Common sense should tell you a "hit" is a sign used by the dog to tell the investigators exactly where the dog smelled the scent. Obviously, the dog is smarter than you!

I see reading comprehension is a problem.

You two have no idea what the dog smelled. Are you trying to say the parents left the decomposing body of Lisa on the floor by their bed? You have a problem with logic and reason if you believe that.

And only ONE location? And the FBI and local police have searched high and low and haven't found a body. Amazing how well the cadaver dogs were not able to find anything actually useful.

Let's say Lisa rolled off the parent's bed and hit her head and died. The mother wakes up from her black-out and with super-human thought and ability manages to hide Lisa's body so well that the FBI, local police, cadaver dogs, local residents have not been able to find anything in over two weeks. And she did this all without laying the body down anywhere where a cadaver dog could get another "hit". What did the cadaver dog indicate by the burning clothes in the dumpster? Apparently nothing, or we would have heard about it, and they wouldn't be focused on the house. Now if anything, the burning clothes would be suspicious. And what about the man seen by witnesses walking wth an infant? The fact that he hasn't been explained states volumes.

- A hit of what? - Good point. If the house is older it could have been a past occupant that died in that room. (My grandparents both chose to die at home instead of at the hospital for instance.)

Or, sick or older people have died and not been found until later, when family members or friends have went looking for them because they "haven't heard from them in awhile". My point is, just because the dog hit on something, doesn't mean that, that something, is the baby. I hope that the baby is ok, but like others have stated, "it doesn't look so good"

Doesn't mean that the bodies weren't once buried there - regarding the Manson family victims. They could have been moved. It had been YEARS later!

the Lindbergs back in the 1930' a very rich family also wished their baby would be returned after paying the ransom. it was returned,,,,,,,,Dead. look it up. here there is no kidnapping at least not for money. so where is Baby Lisa?

the mother has lied about the timeline. there is no need to lie if youre innocent. period.

The dogs are not perfect, but pretty accurate. This is looking bad.

Andy I guess we need to define "involved". Someone knew more than they were telling.

not involved meaning the police knew of two different peoples DNA being on and around jon benet even while placing all blame on the Ramsey's in the public eye.

Overzealous police and prosecutors never face criminal charges for the horror they perpetuate on those proven innocent.

They should be.

the police agologized for what?. Trying to solve the case. the police were dazzled as in this case, no forced entry evidence. forensics. no footprints in the snow. in Baby Lisas case. the same. no proof of forensics on anyone entering the window. both appears to be an inside job.

I actually hope you're right and they did sell the baby. They don't look like prime parenting material anyway. Hopefully "if" someone did take her, she is now in a loving caring environment and not in the booze filled, xanax laden hole she was in before.

sensible as soon as a body dies there is decomposition....I hope that mom and dad sold her...That'd mean she was still alove.....

You are not familiar with how a K9 works. A tracking dog does not smell the actual spot where you touch/lie or step. The human body does not leave an odor the way we leave fluid or prints. All during our day our skin is dropping off microscopic flakes which carry your scent. A K9 will follow these on the ground and in the air if he is close enough. When tracking a live suspect the air can carry these downwind so the K9 might be following in one direction while the suspect might be hiding in another. The dog will follow it and eventually get on target but in the interim the handler and security have to be alert in all directions not just the way the animal is moving.

In cadaver sniffing K9's the same is basically in effect except the dog is trained for the specific smell of "death" produced within minutes of death.

Upon death the body instantly releases protiens which are stored and these begin to break down fluid & tissue which becomes the decay. This release of protiens results in what we call rigor mortis and usually takes about 12 hours to full rigor and then softens over the next 24-48 hours. The body begins cooling from its 98.4 temp and the fluids all move by gravity to the lowest part of the body and settle (lividity) and this entire process results in the specific scent being released from the body onto these skin cells which fall off leaving the scent on the srrounding area for the K9 to pick up.

This minute trace of scent is enough for a good K9 to hit on.

If a human body dies and remains in an area for even 10 minutes you can have this scent left. If moved casually you actually cause more scent to be left.

For a human to smell the decay emitting from a body might take several days depending on the location and conditions.

Appreciate the information Azrancher. Always enjoy your posts very much, by the way.

I say bump that post right up to the top..Good post Azrancher...

It's 98.6. Not 98.4

AZRancher: Thanks for explaining that.....it was interesting. By the way, its "protein" and not "protien." My best friend's husband trains dogs, and he trained some dogs to sniff out cell phones in prisons. Unfortunately, the California prison system, although highly impressed with the dog's abilities, decided that it was too expensive to buy the dog and have them (and the trainers) trained. So, we have a major problem in our prisons, which has ended up costing us a fortune -- oh well, that's politics for you!!

Again, thank you for the explanation....it was greatly appreciated.

Why take a perfetly esplained post and bring up errors in spelling?? Didi ya think that he transposed the "i" and "e"? It happens all the time when the fingers get going...

It just bugs the crap out of me when epople do that.....

Sorry about the spelling, my left hand is a little slower in motion due to having gotten some shrapnel in it during a Marine Corps funded exotic vacation, along with having been stabbed through the same hand as a policeman years ago also.

Chefaz: Thanks, I love that car also. The only car I ever owned (all trucks) was a brown 76 eldorado I purchased with a re-enlistment bonus. Great ride. Not a convertable but a great ride. :)

Thanks, Azrancher. Not my vehicle - only in my dreams. Yes, they are great rides, aren't they although must admit I like trucks, too. :)

Thank you for your service, as well.

Azrancher- Let me add my thanks for your post. I am always amazed at what K9's can do. Of course, the dog is only as good as it's trainer/handler.

AZrancher's comment was more informative than the article that began this discussion.

Azrancher

Come-on now “Azrancher” isn’t your “left hand” really a little slower because you’ve been using it to masturbate?

Quid pro quo, Azrancher!

Azrancher, Although I hate AZ'S heat, I loved your post!! Thanks for all your service as well!! So there are still awesome humans out there!

:)

AZRancher -

Thank you for the educated/informative post. I truly wondered how long it would take for...you know. You answered that...10 minutes. I just hope it isn't as it now appears to be...Baby Lisa dead.

Thanks for the great information. I do have a few questions though, that maybe you could answer? Would a "dead" body part give the same smell as a cadaver? For example, if someone were severely diabetic and developed gangrene in their foot, would it give the same odor to the nose of a dog? Also, do you know how long that smell would last? It's difficult to accurately asses the significance of a "hit" if you aren't well informed about how these things work, which I readily admit that I am not. Thanks!

And sometimes proven guilty does not mean guilty. Go to the innocence project and read about the guy who got out today after 30 THIRTY three zero three decades in jail for something he did not do, and he is not the only one.

Poor child. Somebody did this. When all the facts are discovered and evidence collected, someone will be held accountable. Sad thing is nobody will ever bring that baby back regardless of the punishments/blame meted out. Whatever she may have become, is lost to us forever...It almost doesn't matter WHO did this except to perhaps prevent them from doing it again....Awful.

No argument- that is true in a courtroom, but the evidence is mounting. And this is the court of public opinion.

Unfortunately sometimes we have guilty even if "proven innocent"

This is rolling out just like every other parent-involved child death. Wish it weren't the case but it's as predictable as a re-run.

not to mention the media.

I agree with that aw well. In this case the majority of things coming out have been from the mother and family and not the police. But this hit article has come from the media because who was reading the search warrant. Unfortunately the media going to court to have this information released is going to prevent that from happening.

Everybody is convinced the mom did it because of several things:

(a) the Casey Anthony case,

(b) the fact that police ROUTINELY give a "suspect" a lie detector test and then ROUTINELY tell the suspect that they have failed the test. Since lie detector tests are not admissible in court, this is considered GOOD POLICE WORK. It's ok for the police to lie to the media, the parents, and anyone else they feel like lying to,

(c) the media tends to slant things to make themselves a good "story".

Let the justice system do its job and shame on anybody who convicts out of "popular opinion". You'd damn well better hope it never happens to YOU.

DewBlossoms- Of course everyone hopes this never happens to them. But people are entitled to their opinions, and to express them. You sound as though you want to muzzle free speech. No thank you. By the way, it is my opinion that this mother killed her baby. I would be delighted to be wrong, and for this baby to be found alive. It ain't gonna happen.

We all have a little dective in us. and to try and solve a mystery is so exciting. especially if your theory is correct.

Michael,

As I explained to GeorgiaGal, my concern is that all these people on this board who convict or are inclined to convict (or not) based on what they've heard through the media, well, a lot of those people are your neighbors and my neighbors. I sure wouldn't want any of these people on my own jury, if I were in Deborah's shoes. Free speech, I encourage it. But I would suggest that people think a little harder about what they're actually hearing before they speak (or act) I'm just flabbergasted at the lack of common sense here. Sorry, just telling it the way I see it.

As am I. This woman killed her baby, and is trying to cover it up. If it turns out differently, hallelujah! But it won't.

Michael,

You might be right, but you sure as hell don't belong on any jury. You're no "peer". You said definitively that the mom did it. Based on what? Where is your proof? NOTHING that has been presented so far is "evidence beyond a reasonable doubt". She's apparently a very irresponsible mom, but that DOES NOT MAKE HER GUILTY. And what is the point of betting over this? Get a grip, man.

I have served on a jury. We actually acquitted. Your post is insulting and narrow minded.

Yes - when we read about lynch mobs who have murdered innocent people, we think that kind of thing was done by stupid people in the past. Well, we have those same stupid people among us yet, and they don't have time to wait for any proof of guilt. They hear about dried blood on an apron and want to kill the person who owns the apron, without bothering to find out that it's one of his work aprons from his butcher shob.

Talk about stupid people.....

Look up cadaver dogs and what they are trained to do before making idiotic comments, then you won't look and sound so foolish.

google scary mommy and go to the confessional; there are woman all over the country who drink themselves stupid every night of the week and confess it all; their lives suck, the kids and step kids are awful, they hate this person and that person in their lives, money struggles, cheating on spouses.

Point: Millions of Mother's are miserable in their choices to be mothers but they don't hurt their children.

Aggie, cadaver dogs are trained to find human remains. Not dirty diapers or dead rats.

What do you think the cadaver dogs smell??? They smell bacteria and rot. Perhaps one of the family puked onto the floor by the side of the bed. They cleaned it up, but, voila-there's still a bacteria smell left on the floor that a cadaver dog would pick up. Or perhaps the mother dropped a used sanitary pad on the floor. Oops, bacteria there. Human, decomposing bacteria. Even if she had picked it up and thrown it away.

We know that cadaver dogs can distinguish between a dead rat and a dead human being-if they were trained properly, that is, and if they aren't having one of the 6% of errors that cadaver dogs have. So where is the body? The entire area has been searched, and you mean to say that there was only ONE "hit"?

Justkatinby: Maybe it is possible, but I don't see how one can train a dog to differentiate between decomposing flesh of an animal and decomposing flesh of a human. Not to sound gross, but meat is meat. They even use animal parts for some transplants in humans, so there are common components in the organs it seems.

Screminimimi....Can't you make a comment in a civilized manner, like a grownup, without trying to insult? Have a glass of wine, and relax.

Just yesterday, heard on the news. experts say that cadaver dogs HAVE "hit" on...guess what???....Areas where DIRTY DIAPERS sat, i.e., floor, furniture....a real "AH HA" moment for me to relish...and I think we've all heard and seen instances where, in searches for missing persons, when dogs have "hit" on buried and/or decomposed animals. So, it's POSSIBLE, that's all I was saying and it seems it IS possible.

You assume too much Americans. However, I'm quite excited about the intelligent comments questioning police and dirty corrupt DA's.

Where's your proof that the parents did it?

There's not any. There's "reasonable suspicion", and that's enough to get a warrant. Unless the warrant yield clear and convincing evidence, or witnesses come forward, or a body is found, there may never be enough here even to get an indictment.

Santa Clara, love your screen name. It has real attitude.

Faux News is reporting that the cops took a pair of purple shorts, tape and tape dispenser out of the house. Also reporting the Mom had stated she had not looked in the back of the house (where the dog "alerted", if the dog did) because "she was afraid of what she would find." Mom said baby was wearing purple shorts and Faux is making a big deal out of it. A girl could have lots of purple shorts, but.........

I once was a police officer....we lied all the time when we were questioning a suspect....it's the only way we could perhaps get information in some cases, and unfortunately, it's legal (although I don't always agree with it myself). That's why it's always better to get a lawyer before you allow the police to question you.....once you say "lawyer," they have to stop questioning you completely. From then on, it depends on your attorney whether or not you give them any additional information. This sometimes makes people seem guilty, but oftimes it's the only way to protect yourself.

Yup there's been many a cop and prosecutor who has advanced their personal resume' on wrongful convictions or coerced confessions. You see it on the TV all the time. In their zeal to close a case, I'm sure that often many injustices occur. Better any conviction than no conviction, seems to be the standard in police and prosecution work these dyas. Sorry for being so cynical, but why would dirty cops and D.A.'s be any less pervasive in society than dirty politicians or dirty anything else? Seems to be the rule rather than the exception anymore in any public office.

( or private for that matter)

Didi if you were a Police Officer and lied all the time I'd say you were a crappy officer....I was a police officer and didn't lie all the time....If you lie all the time it gets easier and easier and the you no longer are a cop and you're just like the cons you are trying to get off the street...See NYPD....

Didi-376564,

Oh, I thought you were commenting on cops lying under oath. What's your take on that?

I see that, there are reasons for them to lie about things. If you have to have some way to get the truth out, you gotta do what you gotta do. If you are dumb enough to get busted, thats your issue.

That said, I hope we find this baby safe.

First of all I dont think I have ever met a cop who wouldnt put themselves between me and ANY danger. History tells me the parents are probably involved but I think there are political implications at work here. A huge national story and no leads to follow. The authorities there must be under alot of pressure to come up with a suspect or look incompetent thus the leaks that pressure the parents. I wonder who authorized the leaks. None of us here really knows what happened so our opinions of guilt are nothing more than that. Opinions. The only thing I'm sure of is that little girl is gone and the police investigators aren't going to get any sleep 'til they know what happened.

Agreed, chasman! I havent been sleeping well because of it. I set my alarms anyway, but now I am locking windows, and checking on my kids 4 or 5 times a night, just to be safe. Makes me feel better.

I am willing to bet that the police are definatly authorizing leaks, and that the parents are being made to look guilty for a few different reasons. I have never heard of the crap that is being dished between the two forces at play here, and it is something that looks like the "good cop, bad cop" is being played at a whole new level. That Young guys eyes freak me out. Looks like a tweeker to me.