It was searched, this is search #2

They are probably now looking for forensic evidence, since its looking more and more like someone in the home was involved.

What part of the "Police Search AGAIN" in the headline don't you understand?

This long out, after dozens of persons were in the house searching, any evidence for any lead, would have long since been contaminated; it appears the Police are at a dead end; time is against them in finding this baby, a break in the case is badly needed; however, I am still very hesitant to accuse the mother, it is getting complicated the longer it goes on .

After this length of time, it is reasonable to conclude this baby is dead. We know, through case after awful case, that someone close to the child is often the killer of the child.

We also know, indisputably, that police are not always the good guys pursuing justice. More often, it seems, they are fascisti driven to secure their own image. Any arrest will do. Ends justify means.

this is a shame. i am thinking that this is not going to end well.

jk, that's an awful lot to assume, even for posters on this forum. there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that. just because you take a statistic and apply it broadly to everything in general doesn't mean we all do.

Normally the police do not go in the initial search thinking someone in the home may have had something to do with abduction, plus the search warrant allows for more aggressive searching like tearing up floor boards or attic access or sheetrock on walls, etc and other aggressive actions that they would not do unless they felt it was necessary to get a handle on what may have happened. Especially now that there is "probable cause" since it is known at least one parent was lying initially.

@jkatze: yet another pointless, negative stereotype about law enforcement. How does it contribute to this discussion to remind us some police officers in the past have been unethical or unjust? There are crooks and idiots in all professions. It's an unfortunate part of being human. Statements like this tend to make others think you might have an axe to grind with the police.

My nephew was a suspect in a shooting and the police and FBI came into the family home and went through everything in the house including the Christmas decoration packed in the attic. They took dishes out of the cabinets, went through every closet and moved every piece of furniture. They even took food out of the freeze. Looking for a gun. I wonder if some neighbor who didn't approve of the mother drinking or her life style took the child? Someone has got to be buying food and diapers for this baby if she is still alive.

I'm not surprised. The family has been refusing to answer questions two days after the baby disappeared. With the mom's ever-changing story and both parents being less than helpful, they're going to want to have that warrant to make sure the parents don't try to shut them out of the house when they abruptly feel like they "need to take a break" again.

I wonder why this article didn't mention the fact that she also admitted to taking "anti-anxiety medication" while drinking heavily, which is why she thinks she "might have blacked out" and doesn't remember seeing her baby since before 7 PM.

@THX: all that was in the article yesterday. I personally get tired of watching stories here on MSNBC and other sites that just keep copy/pasting the same stuff from article to article. I am glad they left it out of this one. Frankly, it doesn't matter how many of us post here, or what we feel. If the cops get enough evidence, they will make an arrest, and if not, it drags out. If you think copy/pasting info from yesterdays article will help the cops, maybe you can do it here in the comments section. While you are at it, can you copy/paste some info that might help catch Muammar Gadaffi or some other wanted criminals, the cops need the help.

She's setting up a defense by saying she was incapacitated or drunk when the child dissappeared. You mean to say now your drunk and wouldn't know where the child was? If someone truly took the child and you knew that your husband or you didn't do it, you would be telling the cops and FBI everything you did and drunk that night of the kidnapping. She's setting up a defense in the court of opinion and eventually it will be found out that they killed that baby.

This is one of those cases where if the police keep searching hard enough, they'll eventually find what they want. Regardless of their guilt or innocence.

The mom looks worried but not desparate to find her baby. I hate to jump to conclusions but I do feel that she is hiding something.

The Investigators, and Police may have gotten more information, even from an informant.

In many of these cases, the murderer does tell someone else who they can confide in. Is it the Husband?, or the drinking neighbor?

The "cover" is the Police needed a Search Warrant, but this is not necessary to go back and retrace their steps to find this baby girl.

The Mother makes a good Liar--she most likely believes her story--pathological lying---a dangerous personal trait---it is hard to break thru the barrier, but the time lines of when she put this baby to sleep for the night, while she got "bombed" do not match--

Another Drew Petersen, Scott Peterson, Casey Anthony, OJ, Van der Sloot, and possibly Amanda Knox--

America will most likely see more of these murderers get away from being charged and committed to jail.

It's epidemic, because the Criminal Defense Attorneys are LIARS, also--I don't know how they live with themselves. It is all for publicity and their $$$ coming in from other clients. They do a great job of defending the innocence of their client. Remember "Jose Baez", Tacopina defended Van der Sloot, Johnny Cochran, and Mark Geragos (MJ, Winona Ryder, David Carradine, Politician Gary Condit, Chris attacking Rihanna, and Susan McDougal (Clinton friend).

America's Justice System is out of whack. "Just the Facts, Just the Facts".

What I don't undertand is why this mother, or these parents, would kill their baby, after already having other children to look after. The case for Casey Anthony is that she wanted to party without having to worry about a child. What would this mother's motive be to kill only one child?

That's the first thing that came to my mind Dani. I agree, why would the mother or father kill one child when they have two older children. I wouldn't think the baby girl was molested or anything. Sounds like JonBenet Ramsey all over again.

@Eltex: Maybe someone didnt read the article yesterday that had that information in it. Maybe they didnt read an article from last week that had a piece of information in it that makes a new piece of info released today that much more important or fishy or clear. Repeating pieces of information can be annoying, however, for people to understand the whole situation its necessary.

I cant believe this whole thing. Its like the Casey Anthony case all over again. Granted they reported the baby missing in a timely manner this time. but same principal.

And the inconsistent details are what get me. Everyone reacts differently to stress - I get it. But I can promise you right now, if something were to happen to my son, I could tell you EVERY detail about that day and the days before. Especially the few HOURS before I "thought" I last saw him. And I would give every piece of information I could to make sure the police had all the information from me possible. Even if some of the details were not important. They would know. I just dont understand parents. I wouldnt sleep, eat or do anything but move heaven and earth to make sure my child was found.

Dani, not all babies are created equal. Being a mom, I know this. It may be that this baby was colicky or cried alot or difficult in some way. Not everyone can handle that. I had one very calm child and one screamer. Maybe the parents didn't get any help with the kids or a night out once in awhile or something. Who knows? Maybe someone snapped. Of course, there is the possibility the parents are telling the truth, but I'm a little skeptical because of the drunken mother thing.

What I don't undertand is why this mother, or these parents, would kill their baby, after already having other children to look after.

Perhaps it was an accident. Maybe Mom did something while drunk and drugged and was afraid she'd get in trouble. It's a possibility.

There are a lot of unanswered questions here.

poor baby..I hope they find her...I think the police have botched this...if it's not the parents the baby could be in another state by now

Why is it that people can speculate all day long about whether or not the parents are involved in this disappearance (with zero evidence) and that is understandable, yet it is just wrong to speculate about the police's work ethic in this case?

When did criticizing cops become such a taboo? Whenever there is a story about alleged police brutality you people swarm to the boards demanding their heads on a platter. Yet it is completely inconceivable to speculate that cops may be looking for a quick collar rather than find the truth! Since when is that an impossibility? Cops have aimed for a swift close to a case in order to save face in their communities since the first police force was created. It is not a concept exclusive only to the distant past. It is common enough... even today!

HYPOCRITES

Dani

Lisa was still in the age range for SIDS , mom may have accidentally given to much cold medication. If that were the case then stupid took over and judgement went out the window. The child was removed. As for timeline , we have the familiy's best recollection or deception. Ploice will be 'Mum" on a lot of details. After the Anthony fiasco , they want their ducks in a row. I hope lisa is alive. I would prefer to hear she was offered to an adoptive home (blackmarket) than to have them find a body. Stranger things have happened.

Lolly - Its not "taboo" to speculate police work ethic, however, I think people are a little sensitive tho things like this, especially just coming off the Anthony case. Where I have yet to meet a person that does not believe someone in that family had something to do with that poor little girls death. So any idea that could take the focus off finding the possible person at fault, is going to stir the pot and cause some reactions with high emotions. I agree with Barbara that the police want all their ducks in a row and are going to explore every possible option they can, no matter who it offends or possibly puts in the hot seat.

I'd also like to note -

Where's the evidence they didn't have anything to do with this?

Hey Lolly - if the cops were looking for such a "quick collar" why wouldn't they have made a collar by now? By your reasoning, as soon as they found out the mother had lied, they would have used that to close the case. Instead, they are doing everything they can to find the baby or find evidence leading to a future conviction, no matter who the defendant.

"Perhaps it was an accident. Maybe Mom did something while drunk and drugged and was afraid she'd get in trouble. It's a possibility."

This seems like the most important comment I have seen. Explains why she would leave this part out of her statements. If she was doing something wrong she might be trying to block out the memory...

and that is fine for you to believe that, mamshep.

It is entirely possible that the po po are like horses with blinders. If they say they are exploring every possibility then I am certainly hard pressed to believe it based on the info they've released. Seems that they are fixated on the parent to me. But again, there are findings that they haven't shared with the media so maybe we don't know about the other leads.

Mikelle Biggs, who disappeared in Mesa, AZ in 1999 is a perfect example of police focusing too much on the parent. When they ran a search for sex offenders in the area and they found dozens, all within a 1 mile radius of the girl's home. They went around and spoke with all the neighbors and tried to search a number of homes, but there was no deeper investigation or focus on any of the sex offenders, nor was there any sort of monitoring of them in the first 48 hours of the investigation. The reason either of these things would have been helpful is because the girl disappeared within 90 seconds of her being outside alone. 90 SECONDS. No one would have had time to kidnap, assault, kill and get rid of the girl in the amount of time it took for the cops to show up.

What's more is that witnesses and police both confirm that one of the sex offenders in the neighborhood had a trailer in his driveway that night. The cops never looked into it until it was too late to gather fresh evidence. 2 years later it also came out that one of those registered sex offenders was accused and convicted of the rape and attempted murder of another neighbor.

90% of the investigation focused on the father of the girl. It took them literally YEARS to clear him. Meanwhile someone got away with murder. I am not saying this is what is happening with baby Lisa, but until we know all of the other leads that the cops have followed up on I am not going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Lora -

they need the okay from the DA or a grand jury before they can make an arrest. That is how these things work. How many cases do you know of that magically get an arrest warrant based on zero evidence? The "quick collar" agenda is just that; an agenda. Cops may simply just go for the obvious choice and try to build a case around a suspect rather than let the clues lead them to one.

Just to clarify since you are clearly taking the term too literally - I said "quick collar", not "instant collar".

Also, when did the cops say that the mother lied? Are you just confusing this with the Casey Anthony case? Because that was over months ago.

And how do you KNOW they are doing everything they can? That was my entire point. We don't know that. YOu are just believing what they say. Based on what they've divulged they appear to only be focusing on the mom. That isn't exactly exploring every possibility now is it.

Please don't assume you understand my logic if you can't properly read my posts.

Why kill only ONE child, some ask? Because if all three were kidnapped, this would REALLY look suspicious. Who kidnaps THREE kids including a baby? This would be extremely difficult to pull off.

So maybe they took out just the one, the one that would have taken the longest to reach an independent age.

The cops want it to be the parents, that's it. Cops don't like to look too far to solve their mysteries. Takes them too far from their donut shops.

The safest place for a child is under the direct care and supervision of a sober, responsible adult. Mom admits to drinking heavily, so where is DCFS and why are the two boys still in the home?

Police, FBI agents, officers from area law enforcement agencies and the Missouri National Guard already have searched the family's home, neighborhood, nearby wooded areas, a landfill and abandoned homes.

I found this intriguing..This story of America won't go away until we start taking care of each other. Its a long dark road

Where's the evidence they didn't have anything to do with this?

Where's the evidence that you or me or the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court didnt' have anything to do with this? You can never prove a negative. In this country, you are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Ok Oom, so are you suggesting they don't investigate the parents at all?

And maybe (hopefully) they didn't have anything to do with it.

But what kind of reaction do you think America would have come 10 years from now, it turns up that they did cover an accident up, or did have her kidnapped, or did do something to her?

I'd rather be safe than sorry.

And if it were my child missing, I wouldn't be bothered by them investigating me, as long as I had nothing to hide.

Her skeletons aren't all out of the closet yet on this one. I'd be willing to bet there's more "oops, I forgot to tell" on the way...

In the world prior to Susan Smith I might have had more faith in the parents. But Susan Smith changed our out look. Yes there had been other mothers that killed their children but her case was so public. I don't know if she is guilty but I don't see any positive outcome.

Ok Oom, so are you suggesting they don't investigate the parents at all?

I never said that. Of course they should continue the investigation. I said you are innocent until proven guilty, something that you should have been taught in high school government or civics, and shame on your teacher if you weren't taught that. The parents do NOT have to prove they are innocent. It is up to the state to prove THEY are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That's one of the basic principles our country was founded on, and it trumps any one indiviual tragedy.

It was more likely the two boys aged 8 and 6. The parents are covering for them.

How do you come up with that? Are you of the mind kids are just evil, or what? My kids were 8 and six with a little sister this very same age, and they were nothing but absolutely great with her, and would sit there and watch other people with her to make sure they were doing it right. I am betting those boys know more, yes, but I am assuming it is about who took her, or what the events of that night were.

Really? Are you that sure of it? I know the cops are pretty sure of it since they are being so heavy handed with them. I know it looks really bad for the mom, but let me throw something at you... and I know that Nancy Grace has never even thought of this. What if the dad did it? He came home when everyone was asleep. The baby wouldn't have reacted if he went in and picked her up. He would know where the cell phones were. It is simply his word as to how the house was found. Are you that sure that the mom did it that you can over look that?

Oh, Kink, we are in for it today, watch my friend...

I have wondered the same thing James mentioned about the boys. I'm not assuming the boys are "evil" or malicious toward their baby sister in any way, but accidents do happen. A possible scenario is mom's hammered/passed out and can't take care of the baby, the boys take it upon themselves to "help", an accident happens, baby dies, parents cover it up. Remember the baby is sick with a cold...Possible cold med OD, possibly dropped her, etc...If the baby wasn't kidnapped as claimed, this investigation could be the result of a terrible and tragic accident.

Well, In all actuality, it could. But, I see two other people who are alot more culpable than those two boys...

If the boys did this, it would be because of some rough play, and it would be easier to just say so. Its not like they would drag an 8 year old off to prison.

The mother's stories are too inconsistent, and now that she is claiming some sort of blackout that evening, it seems she is prepping some sort of defense. I would think the dad is helping to cover up. Perhaps hiding the phones was his idea.

I have a feeling that those boys would be easier to break than the parents, so I'd kinda like to know how much they've been talked to. Do I think they did anything... ehhhh... not really, but this goes back to Casey Anthony... if it was an accident, why not call 911?

Thank you, Tony. I am glad me and kink arent the only ones... The dad does look a mite creepy, dont you think?

LOL, my wife says the same thing, that he looks creepy and hiding something. (she is usually good at scoping people out). But my opinion is that he is hiding the fact that he knows she is culpable. it could be that through neglect from being drunk, the baby was left in an unsafe place and died. They then over-reacted and covered it up. Now it's too late to back out.

Could be. There are alot of could bes. We wont know until the truth comes out. I am in agreement, kink. I think those two boys need to tell what they know. It might be rough, but it has to be done...

Wowed... This doesn't look promising for a positive outcome. I am also wondering about the dad being involved. There are so many possibilities. I'm hoping baby Lisa is safe and well taken care of right now by an abductor who just wants a baby...it's sad that that is the best to hope for.

It is, but I am praying aweful hard. I wonder if anything will pan out about those two women they saw in New York? Hmmm. So many things to work through. I am wondering over the dad, too. He creeps me out...

WOWED,

The boys are from the mothers previous marriage, little lisa is from her relationship with her current husband. Its not hard to imagine that the boys could be harboring very negative feelings of jealousy, envy, hatred, etc, toward their new dad and this little girl who was getting all the attention and love from the parents.

It could have been something as innocent as giving Lisa a bath--and they let her drown, or she might have started crying while the mother was passed out and they held a hand over her mouth, or buried her head in a pillow to quiet her down. there are dozens of way that an accident could have occurred. Or they could have quite malicously and consciously killed her, we don't know yet.

The mother could be covering up an accident because she was drunk and negligent and afraid of the consequences. People have made up elaborate stories for much less. Maybe in her altered state of mind she could have weighed the pros and cons and decided to come up with the abduction story.

You guys are forgetting that there would be a body to hide if anyone in the house harmed baby Lisa. After massive searches by LE with dogs, not one thing was found. Pretty good for an average family if you ask me. If the other children in the house saw anything, how on earth are they being kept quiet? Kids just can not keep secrets like that for very long.

By now the phone records have been scrutinized and still no leads. Yes, this is a bizarre case.

I knew a family a few years ago that had an infant and an older son... some other kids as well... Anyway, the baby woke up in the middle of the night and the son who was around 9 put the baby in bed with him to get it back to sleep. Then he rolled over on the baby in his sleep. Something like that may have happened...

Wowed...I missed that part about two women in NY...?

There were two women in MO yesterday who were reported as acting suspicious and with a baby who looked similar, about an hour from the home. But that was a false alarm.

Not sure I would call it a false alarm, just that the description was too general a black '98 or '99 car is not very specific, but the cops did follow up on the tip.

When did they deem it a false alarm? I didnt see that part...

If you were referring to the two women in MO, then last night they deemed it a false alarm. It was on CNN.

Kink could be on to something. I've noticed in interviews how the dad seems more uninterested. Also, the mom has consistently cut him off when he's spoken. Between the time the mom last saw the baby and their noticing her missing, the dad is the only person who conceivably had access to her because he would be the only person in the house awake. Also, he works late, and the mom is out buying alcohol. How many times has she done that? Could she have been keeping company with some other guy while he's working? As the saying goes, "Mama's baby; papa's maybe." That would give the "dad" motive.

Only thing I keep coming up with is:

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, it probably is a duck

The father's behavior seems very odd to me. I have seen him in several interviews and he shows zero emotion. I find that very peculiar. I know everyone grieves differently but if it were me, I would not be able to sit there and not have some type of emotionar response.

He does seem odd, and its hard to say if its a case where she says "let me do the talking", or if he is just that distant.

Or zero emotion and distant could mean he's on meds to help him calm down.

Too many people here want to say the parents could not have done anything because despite all the searches they have not yet located the body. In Florida they used dogs, experts and conducted the searches, but it still took well over a month to find Kaylee Anthony's body.

Chances are the body will be found. From there, well, I think most of us know the mother will be charged are her defense is already set up to be "it was an accident and I over-reacted".

lebbanothegreat says:

It was the mom.

Fantastic!! We can call in the dogs, send the police home and tie the noose - we no longer need to investigate! Thanks lebbanon!

Well, judging by body language and the fact that the interviews that I've seen, there is no comforting between the 2 of them... hell, I haven't even noticed hand holding!! That shows one of 2 things to me: they think the other one is guilty or the other is cheating.

Accident or not, does anyone know a six year old child that can keep their mouth shut for any length of time.

The mom knows this, which is probably why she isn't letting the cops talk to either of her kids again.

I haven't even noticed hand holding!!

I noticed the distance as well. In the interview I saw where she admitted for the first time that she'd been drinking "enough to get drunk", they were sitting close enough for their closest knees to touch. He had his hand on his knee and she had hers on hers, but her last 2 fingers were on top of his hand. Every time she'd say something in her defense, she'd rub his hand with those fingers. For everything else her hand was still. His hand never moved once. He almost seemed stiff.

Don't know what to make of it but I did find it odd.

Therese-last I heard on the Today show the parents weren't allowing police to question the boys, the mother even admitted she hadn't talked to them. THIS to me draws some serious concern. At 8 & 6 those boys are capable of speaking up. Why would you not let police question them and even more why wouldn't the PARENTS question them? I have grandsons that are 13 and 11 and at 8 they were very talkative. Maybe this thought that the boys were involved is something to look at. I can't imagine why the parents haven't spoken to the boys...or have they???

Monkey - why wouldn't the parents talk to them? If she was passed out, they were the only ones who provide information. This doesn't pass the smell test.

It was the mom.

Check!

As far as the father goes: I am sure the authorities would have gone to his place of business and unless his job entails him, alone, with no one else around (along with no security cameras, electric fences or badge entry points) the freedom of coming and going without being seen (highly doubt it) then someone had to have seen him at work. This seems a little fishy with regards to the time difference that the mother gave to the police as well. I know lie detectors can be fooled and is not admissable in court and all but a publicied lie detector test for the mother would be a sight to see. I would pay to see that!

The boys are from the mothers previous marriage, little lisa is from her relationship with her current husband. Its not hard to imagine that the boys could be harboring very negative feelings of jealousy, envy, hatred, etc, toward their new dad and this little girl who was getting all the attention and love from the parents.

Thank you, Dr. Spock.

Hello DV!

We can speculate for years about who did what and when they did it. Until there is more evidence to go on it will only be more speculation. The points some have made about body language are interesting - however, depending upon how close the couple was before this happened body language as an indicator could be skewed.

The local news in KC has shown short video clips of friends and extended family members. I get the idea they are as much in the dark as we are.

Scales, do you know ANYTHING about the science of reading body language? It doesn't take a 8 hour season to read someone if you know what to look for. A simple looking up when answering a question... nervous ticks... speech patterns... they all tell their own little tale. Just because you can't read a person doesn't mean that others on here can't.

Oh, we all know that we don't have all of the info. That is why this is ALL speculation. Only the truly dim believe that they are talking fact when they think they have all the answers. We don't know about foot prints outside the window... fingerprints in the room or on the light switches... dirt marks from outside on the inside if they crawled thru the window... it is all speculation without the facts. If you can't grasp that little assumption, well, maybe someone needs to read a few more posts before popping off and calling everyone insane.

It was Nanny Franny. All of the lack of evidence points to her. The kids mother was drunk so mom could not have done it, the two kids were insider trading at the time, and the father isn't mentioned prominantly so how could he be to blame. It was Franny or possibly one of the Bush twins.

To quote John Wayne for no particular reason

'Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid'

Making snap judgements about the father because you consider him to look "creepy" makes you look ignorant. Gossiping is not attractive.

It could be the father blames the mother for getting drunk, and the mother blames the father for not being home.

A simple looking up when answering a question... nervous ticks... speech patterns... they all tell their own little tale. Just because you can't read a person doesn't mean that others on here can't.

And you can also be WRONG. Lots of things make people behave oddly. For example, Aspergers Syndrome, which often goes undiagnosed, makes it very difficult to look people in the eyes. People on the People in tragic or terrifying situations may also behave abnormally.

Therese in Arizona, I did find your analysis compelling. Kids that age do talk, but we don't know how much opportunity they've had, or how effectively the parents have deterred them. We also don't know if the kids were aware of anything; I have one that wakes up easily, and another who can sleep through a hail storm on a tin roof with a baby crying! If the couple had a dog, it would likely notice an intruder, but its bark would not necessarily wake deep-sleeping children or a passed-out parent.

The intruder kidnap theory is probable. Anyone aware of her drinking problem (and someone without a drinking problem would not choose to randomly binge at a time when they were the sole caretaker of two young kids and an infant) might feel justified in kidnapping the baby. She's a little old for most wanna-be parents at 10 months, but it's still possible. It's so easy to locate people now. Any one who saw her in the store, or noticed her on Facebook, or anyone else who knew her name and the fact she had a baby could do it. Many areas have property tax assessments available to the public online, so you can identify the property of any homeowner anonymously with nothing but their full name. I don't know how easy it is to enroll them in school and such, but it can't be too hard, since illegal immigrants can do it (and obviously don't have birth certificates). I also know you don't need birth certificates at public health centers to get immunizations. So maybe it is a kidnapper... they probably wouldn't let the child in public too much until she "ages" out of her current face. But they could probably raise her for a long time under the radar.

Dani:

How does the public know how she treated her 2 step children?---The police say they do not have a "record" on her. They know something; no air travel over the house (24 hrs), for privacy of the investigation.

Deborah, the mother, will not let the children talk to the police--Why?

LOL @OomYaaqub. Bringing up Asperger's when they are talking about body language signs to look for? THAT is too funny. Yes lots of things go undiagnosed. However, I think in this situation, there are DEFINITELY some body language signs to look at. Very closely. That have NOTHING to do with any sort of disorder..

Oh wait.. did we just give the mother another story idea? Another detail she forgot to mention before?

Sure, Oomyaaqub, I could be wrong. You can be wrong. We both can be wrong. Reading body isn't an exact science, just like psychology. For all we know it could be an alien in a human suit that has malfunctioned.

You know, I have always found that people love to grasp for reasons things can't be so. The person can't meet your eyes during certain topics in questioning, it must be undiagnosed Aspergers. She has a little twitch in her hand, must be a case of undiagnosed epilepsy. Are we going to excuse her all together and just call her a chronic alcoholic?

Did you all read the article with the statement from the grocery clerk that sold mom the boxed wine? I thought I read that mom was with a "man" not a woman (I could be wrong). Maybe they should check surveillance from the grocery store to see if there was anyone lurking in the shadows watching this lady. Lots of angles to look at which I am sure the police and the FBI wont miss....right?

Its crazy to think that if someone outside the home did take this little girl that they would be out shopping at the local market or anywhere in the country with the baby in a stroller. I find it hard to believe that many solid leads will come from tip lines until the media storm has somewhat died down. Especially, IF an outsider took Lisa with as much care as to leave relatively little to no physical evidence would they then take the risk of being seen with her in public? Another thought, if the baby was put to bed at 6:40 pm (ish) then by god the child was likely abducted much earlier in the night. I remember when my kids were that age and while they generally slept through the night that ment 6 to 8 hours and if they did fall asleep at 6:40 that was more likely a nap. Did baby Lisa wake up for a late evening snack and drunk mom do something stupid in one of the many hundred million ways an accident could have happened or even another more heinous thing; then drunk mom passess out and cant remember a thing.

All these scenarios seem so unlikely but my read on mom and dad is one of a couple in shock but also a little off and definitely suspicious. There is something that doesnt sit right and as many of you have pointed out DAD looks a little...curious.

My kids are the age of Lisa's siblings. These kids need to be interviewed by a child psychologists so that they are treated gently but I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt when a child feels safe and trusts those interviewing them the fear of consequence will subside and they will likely ACCIDENTALLY tell everything they know if they know anything. Like my daughter does when she tells me all the lovely things my mother-in-law says about me behind my back (hehe) without initially realizing what she has said and then follows the...but don't tell grandma I told you or she will get mad at me....

some people watch a little too much tv...CSI, Law & Order, etc. No matter how many interviews and articles anyone reads, you are not a professional so maybe all the assumptions should stop!

AMY: Just so that you know, Caylee Anthony went "missing" in June and was found in December...that is SIX months not ONE. If you are going to use another case as an example, at least get the facts correct.

I strongly agree that those children need to be interviewed. It is very likely that something they say will lead to a crucial piece of the puzzle. Through no fault of their own. Maybe they over heard a detail or a comment made by one of their parents. Or saw mom or dad do something that night. You never know until you ask them.

I think they can tell us who was with mom. I think that is the secret that mom is sitting on.

Chuck in Olathe

Fantastic!! We can call in the dogs, send the police home and tie the noose - we no longer need to investigate! Thanks lebbanon!

We can speculate for years about who did what and when they did it. Until there is more evidence to go on it will only be more speculation.

Sammy727

As soon as you had proof that it was the Mom you should have submitted the proof to the Police. Thank You for solving this crime.

scales67

You are all insane!!! Why do you think you know anything about people you have never met and have only seen in short interviews on TV?

Jen31

Making snap judgements about the father because you consider him to look "creepy" makes you look ignorant. Gossiping is not attractive.

esu0130

some people watch a little too much tv...CSI, Law & Order, etc. No matter how many interviews and articles anyone reads, you are not a professional so maybe all the assumptions should stop!

I don't know if any of you are new to the world of internet forums, or maybe just clueless. If you don't accept or appreciate speculation and assumptions then you are in the wrong place. What IS insane is that anyone would click on the comments section of a news story and expect to see nothing but "oh well, I guess we won't know anything until the police make an arrest or the trial concludes. To be continued!". The entire purpose of a forum is to express ideas and theories. Just because you may not agree with them it doesn't mean someone is at fault for putting the idea out there.

If your ideal picture of the internet is nothing but safe, unassuming, vanilla comments then you are setting yourselves up for a big disappointment. Probably best to avoid frustration and stay away from Newsvine if you feel that way!

Lolly -

The entire purpose of a forum is to express ideas and theories.

Isnt that what all those people are doing that you just quoted?

Hummmmmmmmmm ... Read this and it sounds like a lot of bad script writers at a movie script convention ... lol ..

"just The Facts Ma'am ..." What facts are there that implicate anyone?

All we know is that a infant child is missing and that police & FBI are looking for evidence and information to support or refute her alleged abduction abduction from the family home....

Isn't it bad enough for these parents to have gone through this horrible event without everyone pointing a finger at them?

There's a difference in sharing thoughts, gleaning micro-theories to help develop our own, and offering alternate considerations as opposed to degrading and demeaning attacks that spark nothing but anger and retaliatory remarks. I think that was what Lolly was referring to, and I understand.

Not really, mama. I was thinking the exact same thing...kudos lolly...well said! All of the above quotations were criticisms of others' opinions and theories. I agree with lolly 100%...if you don't like what others think, forums are not for you

mamshep -

the two above comments are right on the money. Telling someone what to do/say or how to think isn't a theory or an idea. It's a command and hinders the sharing of such ideas. I don't care if they don't like the opinions they see, but if they truly feel that way then this is not the place for them. And it is an unfair expectation to have.

The 8 year old is JEREMY's from previous relationship.

The 6 year old is DEBORAH's from current husband whom she's separated from.

Lisa is DEB's and JEREMY's.

Scales, do you know ANYTHING about the science of reading body language? It doesn't take a 8 hour season to read someone if you know what to look for.

Kinkomaster - Reading body language is not a science, Einstein. It's theory and conjecture. Real sciences include chemistry, physics, biology, etc. Perhaps you have never heard of those.

No one who has never been on national television is going to act normally when being interviewed, especially considering the fact that these two people are being questioned over the disappearance of their baby. You are ignorant, as evidenced by the fact that a vowel (as "e" in eight) should be preceded by "an", not "a". Also, it is incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition (yes, "for" is a preposition). Take a look in the mirror before attempting to imply that others are incapable of grasping the facts.

Lolly1192:

If someone wants to propose a theory or an idea - great. "It's the mom" offers nothing thoughtful, insightful or new - it only repeatsan unoriginal thought. I notice none of your posts are offering anything but bashing other posters - no theories or ideas. Perhaps you are "new to the world of internet forums" and don't know how this works.

Re ppsts 2.48 and 2.49, body language isn't even a science, let alone an "exact science". Some people have extreme difficulty expressing physical affection or emotions in general. They'd find it even harder when stressed,upset, or when in front of a camera, for crying out loud. Outside of sex, it just doesn't come naturally for some people. Unfortunately that makes it almost impossible for them to comfort another person, even their spouse. I have been married to such a person (who probably does have Aspergers) for 20 years and it has caused us a great deal of trouble, as I'm sure you can imagine. (I have actually said things like "fake it till you make it" and I know I have to SAY "I need a hug" because he would never figure it out no matter how obviously distressed I was.) So I'm NOT just grasping at straws, nor do I automatically assume that parents would never harm their children, whether accidentally or on purpose. But people express emotions, especially grief in very different ways. That's why the police have to look for actual evidence, not mere hunches based on things that are irrelevant.

Well, Scales, it appears that you don't know what a soft science is... you remember your social studies, right? Those are all soft sciences. Anything dealing with social interaction and not measurable in a lab. Reading body language falls into a science that pertains to social interaction. You do know what that is, because you seem to struggle with it.

Seeing how your next paragraph is simple you being a grammar nazi, well... that definitely puts you in a category. That category of "I have nothing really to contribute, so I'll just be a jerk". Since you are an english major and can't get a job using your major, you need to realize something... and it'll be hard for you to grasp. I don't write in english... I write in American. I type quickly... take shortcuts... use slang... and abbreviate a lot! Sure... I misspell every so often, but all the people I talk to usually have the IQ to understand what I'm saying. If you don't understand it... don't read it... just that simple. Oh, and all the triple dots... they are pauses... not meant for grammar, so you might as well put away your little red pen for that one, too.

If you can't keep up with this subject, go over to the education boards and annoy them with your grammar corrections and assumed higher education. *sigh* Dolt.

Chuck, we seem to have a lot of people on here that only want to denigrate and not contribute. I suppose it is something that we are going to have to suffer with.

Oom... you know what? You been on here making excuses and trying to shoot down everyone else's theories. What do YOU think happened, huh? Instead of showing that you don't know what a soft science is or suggesting that everyone calls someone when they are drunk, how about you walk us thru the night? Contribute a little... you know... for a change.

Kinko - I get caught up in the heat of the moment too - as you attest to from a heated exchange you and I had a while back. As with most things I try to learn from it and move on.

Your posts are among those that are insightful (I found your comments on body language interesting) - the good ones make it worth the effort to read through the bad ones.

Chuck, we are very passionate when we "discuss" things. :) The way I see it is that you always take something from it.

I try to contribute as much as I can, and at the start of these things... I do a lot of speculating... like dropping the baby out of the window instead of breaking in thru it. There needing to be 2 people instead of just one. This is assuming the family is innocent, of course.

When I was younger (in college), I studied up on reading body language (in order to play poker better... hey, I was a kid) but later on, I just found it fascinating. You watch a politician talk and read their body language and they are saying 2 different things sometimes. The public debates... great way to practice. You have a bunch of people to read and their responses to each other. By the way... thank you for the compliment. Means a lot coming from you. ;)

Kinko, we are indeed passionate - either it matters a lot or it doesn't really matter at all.

Something has been bothering me - If the mother was drunk/drugged and there was a murder and body disposal, who did it? The mother could not hide evidence very well in that condition. Based on what the cops are not saying, it looks like not much was discovered with the search made yesterday - or if anything was found it must be processed before conclusions can be made.

Here's the latest local report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44975914/ns/local_news-kansas_city_mo/

Kinkomaster, obviously I don't know what happened. I'm certainly not privy to some of the information the police have, because they never release absolutely everything to the news media. I do think it's highly unlikely that if the mother was as drunk as she claims to have been, she could have successfully disposed of the body in a manner that they wouldn't have discovered by now. They already searched the area with trained dogs, remember? Drunk people aren't capable of very much. It's more likely she could barely walk, let alone take a dead baby someplace while miraculously leaving no scent. The children couldn't have done it either--I doubt even a genius who was 8 years old could have figured out a way to hide a body. That leaves three possibilities:

1) the baby was kidnapped, probably by someone who knows the family and/or had been watching them. In that case it's possible she's still alive.

2) the baby's father was involved--but the timing makes that unlikely.

3) the mother gave or sold the baby to someone who managed to sneak the baby out of the house without anybody noticing and without the baby crying.

Moonbeam:

You are the biggest optimist when it comes to a mother lying under several polygraph tests re: her baby child; then switching times lines, then not remembering what happened during the time she drank up to 5-10 glasses of wine.

Is this normal for a drinker?---she may have blacked out; or it was a premeditated murder.

Are you still optimistic that all the guessing here about facts will come out later to be true?

You would be very good on a jury re: a prominent case that has been played over and over again by the Media and her attorney Tacopina---there is no where one can go to miss all the hoopla re: the loss of this baby---

Oom, I didn't ask you to give me what actually happened. As Lolly said above, I'm only asking you to speculate. What do you THINK happened? You gave up 3 ideas and made some points... that's all I could ask for. Welcome to the conversation.

Let me ask you a question since you look at things with such a critical eye. What do you think of the parents' interviews and the way that they've been acting? Also, how are you feeling about the cops vilifying them from the beginning, starting with that first release where they mentioned that they stopped working with the cops, and in fact all they wanted to do was go home and sleep?

Also, how are you feeling about the cops vilifying them from the beginning, starting with that first release where they mentioned that they stopped working with the cops, and in fact all they wanted to do was go home and sleep?

They have been through 40 hours of questioning with investigators since this began.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html

What's the motive for any of the family members to directly harm this baby? My assumption "if" the family was involved, then the mother fell asleep and smothered the baby from being hammered; got scared and hid the problem.

Where did I put anything on this particular thread about blaming anyone? Re read. If it were a different post, you would see I have many speculations, and why does any parent have motive for killing their child? Some do it by accident, neglect, many different reasons. People also kidnap children. Is there one part of this whole thing that makes you NOT think something bad happened. Go and get off your soap box, and take some comprehension classes...

Dang, wowed... you are in a mood today. It isn't like Blake addressed you directly... did you, Blake? He was merely making a statement. I mean... I'm sure he could have been innocently asking you since he couldn't figure out something along the lines of the family not being able to afford the new baby and needing to "relieve themselves of the financial burden" as a possible motive. *winks*

I really hope that they can find out what happened to this baby. Did someone abduct her? "IF" she was abducted by someone who desperately wanted a baby, my hope would be that if she can't be found, that the person who abducted her treats her good. "IF"one of the parents had something to do with the baby's disappearance I hope this comes to light. If an 'accident' caused the death of this little one, the parents should have IMMEDIATELY called 911 for help. When accidents happen concerning children (and they do happen), your best defense is to call 911. To try and hide your involvement, no matter how innocent the parents part is in the death, only complicates the already tragic incident and makes the parent(s) look GUILTY AS HELL.

Many children have actually been abducted from their beds under the cover of darkness, this is nothing new. Although we don't hear a lot about it, there is a HUGE black market for babies. I still have hope that this baby is alive, and will be found.

Good post Lorene...I too am still thinking about this baby and praying that she will be found alive.

I am trying really hard not to judge these parents. Because if they are lying about what happened, then most likey this child is dead.

If she was kidnapped by someone because they wanted a baby then she is still alive and being fed.

Where are you Baby Lisa?

If the person that took her reads this post..I am begging you to take her to a local safe place like a emergency hospital entrance, any place she will be found quickly. please, please for what ever reason you took her from her home and family. please let her live.

I wonder if baby Lisa was standing in her bed near the window and someone just reached in and took her through the window. The photo I saw of her room has her bed near the window and black trash bags covering it.

Vivian, I saw where the cops tried to replicate a break in, and they needed a cop to boost the other one up to get in. I don't see someone reaching in and then down into a crib. Nice thought, but it doesn't explain everything else.

I'm thinking the mother left the lights on because she was drunk, left the door unlocked because she wasn't sure when the husband would be home, left the baby monitor off because she was drunk. Baby doesn't cry out because she just wants to be picked up. The person who took this child knows these parents. This mother could have a crazy boyfriend or someone who wants to be a boy friend or girlfriend for that matter and has taken the baby to break up the mother and father. In that case Lisa is probably dead. I'm hoping it's someone who doesn't need money so she doesn't have to work and have a baby sitter. Has someone in the area lost a baby Lisa's age. A welfare mother or father who likes getting that extra money and if their own baby died they just buried it and got their selves a new baby about the same age. Remember that woman who discovered she was kidnapped from a hos pital when she was a month old...now she is grown with kids of her own. A woman stole her because she wanted a child.

I see your thought process. This is just another theory that needs debunked by the cops, that's all.

I could be wrong, but I thought I read she is actually married to someone else & just living with Lisa's Dad? Could the husband have something to do with it? I mean the legal one that doesn't live with her?

"On Tuesday, investigators swarmed the woods located a few blocks away from the Irwin home for their fourth search of the area. The site is near a dumpster where firefighters told NBC News they had responded to a fire an hour and a half before Lisa's parents reported the baby missing.

Bradley said police showed burned clothing to her during interrogations, NBC reported."

HUGE red flags right there. Wonder why it took so long to check that dumpster, although seems no body was found, but burnt clothing? Need to follow up on that one.

OMG they didn't just check the dumpster today. They are checking the woulds again. They searched the dumpster while they were interrogating them, and they interrogated for two days after the baby was reported missing.

Kink, I am not in a mood. I am just fiesty. Ok, maybe I am in a mood. Sorry, fighting with Enterprise to "pick me up" for 3 days. Finally got a car, and was told that because I used my ma's debit card (I dont keep one because my bank is HORRIBLE about them), I had to get permission from insurance to put her on it. It was RIDICULOUS.

Anyway, I am really hoping that she was taken by someone who wants a baby.

I heard those two ladies were from MO, but were in NY? Is that the same one, or am I confused?

All I can say is: I have always wondered if the cops checked the traffic cameras around the area of the house to see if anything turns up? I sure hope so...

I don't think the dumpster thing is relevant. Why would they randomly burn her clothes? It would make more sense to leave her in the clothes, or leave the clothes in a drawer. However, tossing burning baby clothes into a dumpster might be a good decoy for someone kidnapping a baby. The fire was obviously conspicuous enough to get reported. Someone trying to hide stuff would not have drawn so much attention to it.

No one said the clothes were baby clothes.

UM, Tam, the mom said that they showed her burned baby clothes during an interview. That says that someone mentioned baby clothes.

No one said what kind of clothes they are.

A fire. In a dumpster. An hour and a half before the baby reported missing. Near the home.

Naa.. that couldnt be important at all....

wowed - nobody said anything about New York. If you're thinking you heard Manhattan, they are referring to Manhattan, KS. Not Manhattan, NY.

My bad on both. Did further research, must have skimmed. Thanks for the info...

She did imply that they were baby clothes.

There has been a lot of 'implying' going on. The chief of police said in an interview yesterday on the radio that they were not releasing all of the information they have to the media. They are leaking information and mis-information to the media only if they think it will help develop leads.

Well, YA. Thats why they do it. Not rocket science. Implying means an aweful lot at times, and you would do well to remember that. I have had many people imply that I should do something, and it usually turns out for the better. Not always, but quite often.

Tami, I'm pretty sure this is standard procedure in the case of any serious crime. One other reason is that there are a lot of nutcakes out there who will "confess" to things they never did, and this wastes the police's time while letting the real culprit get away. They can weed those people out by checking for details of the crime that only the real perpetrator and the police would know. Of course, this is yet another reason we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Bella... the cops are at a dead end and are grasping for straws. They are going to do anything they can to appear to be doing something.

This will be the second time. You really think that's excessive. Look over prior cases and see how many times the missing person was found on the premises. This search is with the aid of a warrant allowing the inclusion of any evidence found to be used in a criminal case.

Better brush up on your criminal law and investigative techniques. So far the parents are the best suspects. Should they deny that fact? Their story is starting to fall apart. In fact it was somewhat unbelievable in the first place.

As many times as required to solve the case????

R. Scalzo, did you see the cops try and recommit the crime? They couldn't have a single officer break in the window for crying out loud. A second officer had to boost the first one up in order to get in. They have a story in their head and they are going to make the pieces fit. Instead of looking at things rationally, they are trying to jam the pieces that they have into place. "Hmmm... if we need 2 cops to get in... maybe so did they."

The parents aren't the best suspects, they are the ONLY suspects. They NEVER looked anywhere else. Don't get me wrong, there are huge holes in mom's story and things that simply don't make sense. In the same breath... the cops have tunnel vision. They aren't looking anywhere else.

I know how most people feel about polygraphs (unreliable) but authorities said the father passed the test, the mother did not..

The cops are looking in the only place the clues have led. They have searched fields and woods, and abandoned buildings. I don't think they have tunnel vision at all. If the story doesn't seem to make sense, then they are being thorough in showing how it doesn't make sense. News stations are positioned at the home so all we see is the work being done there. But I would think they are looking at all possibilities to see if they pan out. If anything showed that someone ran with the kid, then I'm sure that would be followed up. But up to now nothing shows they should go too much further than the home.

I lied my butt of on a polygraph once Double, and passed. So no they are not very reliable. It depends on your character, and the father looks like the distant type.

When did he take the lie detector test? I thought he hadnt been given one yet...

Mother took a poly, dad didn't.

Tone, they have tunnel vision in the fact that they only think mom or dad did it and then they ran out the back yard and threw her over the fence or something. Not everyone is as stupid as CA and hide the body a half mile from the house. If a neighbor did it, the girl is a stone throw away, but the cops aren't even looking because they are so focused on the family.

As for polygraphs... there is a reason that they aren't admissible in court. The readings aren't always true. The cops said that the mother did not pass the test... now is that it... not passing the test, or FAILING the test. Those are 2 very separate outcomes. If it in inconclusive, it means that they didn't get a good read and can't tell, but it doesn't mean that she lied. If she failed the test... she lied. I would like to hear the results from the operator that delivered the test.

Just to counter your point Kink, how do you know what they "think"??

It is perfectly normal to start a search at the point where the child was last seen. If the story they are given doesn't seem to fit, then followup clues and info should be looked for.

They are in fact searching many other places. But the home does need to be searched more thoroughly. Looking at the most likely place is not tunnel.

Thanks for the correction bonos- I was told he had but should have double checked before I posted. I now read where he offered to take one and the cops said he didn't have to. No intentional misinformation intended folks

Sure Double, sure.. LOL

No problem, Tone... counter away. Most of the places that they are searching are coming from tips. Some of these tips are coming from as far away as England and eastern Europe (I forget which country to be exact). I totally believe it searching in every spot that you think she could be, but as I said, they are not taking into account that it isn't the parents. They are throwing all of their eggs into this one basket at the expense of a thorough job. If they are still searching outside, they are in recovery mode, the urgency should be now to focus on who did it.

I hate to say it, she is one of 2 things... safe with someone or dead, so blowing all the resources looking for her instead of the person who did it is just a waste. If the cops can't take a step back and broaden their view of this case and not be so locked in on mom, we are going to be on boards like these for some time.

No, they still need a body. They have to look for her regardless. A body can shed light on who did it. Whether alive or dead, the search cannot stop. At the same time if they can disprove the abductor theory, then they are closer to getting the truth. The parents, in particular the mom, are already breaking down and changing stories. Their scare tactic is indeed working.

There are two separate activities here. One is searching, and the other is investigating. One can work independently from the other. We are only getting the juicier tidbits of the story in the news. They are connecting dots, as they should be.

Kink, from what I am seeing the police are going out of their way to not accuse the parents. Unfortunately, the evidence we are not getting to see keeps bringing them right back.

Look over prior cases and see how many times the missing person was found on the premises.

Jon Benet Ramsey springs immediately to mind. Found in the home, in a basement room that someone had painted shut so it looked like no one could have gotten in there.

Then there's also Balloon Boy. How long were people searching for him before they found out his parents told him to hide in the attic?

I wonder if the husband has an ex who didn't like the situation. I think the Mom is still married to someone else. Mom said a neighbor came over and watched tv for a while. Did that neighbor notice anything wrong with the baby? There have been several cases where someone wanted a baby really bad and have killed the mother and taken the baby out of the mom and left her to die. Who hasn't picked up their mail in a while? Who moved a couple of weeks or a month before the baby went missing? How many people know the mother drinks after the kids are in bed? If the boys were playing to rough with the baby and she died would the mother be afraid the dad would walk away from her. They aren't married and Lisa was the glue for the family. The mother is still married to someone else. What were his parents, family, best friend doing when the child went missing. I know he was out of the country but what about someone who would take up his fight?

Army, I'd love to agree with you, but they've been heavy handed with them from the beginning. Starting with the day and a half of straight questioning and when they say that they are tired and want to go home to sleep, the cops turn around and say that they have stopped helping... making them appear guilty. I will come down on the side of the cops 99% of the time, but there are those times when I get a bad feeling and this is one of those times. It's a gut feeling, so I can't really explain it. At first, everything pointed at mom, but the more that I place myself in the role of intruder, there are so many ways to accomplish this without the parents knowing. The first assumption is that only one person is involved, and I don't believe that. The more scenarios that I run, the more that it looks like it would be way easier with 2 people.

Tone, what if they can't disprove the abductor theory? They haven't even mentioned a profile of who would have done it... have they? It seems that they are focused to me. I know that they are still searching, but the problem is that just looking around without any direction is just a waste of time, money and man power. All those cops could be protecting the rest of the population instead on walking around a landfill, looking in a cistern, or empty building. If they have a lead and need to check it... by all means, bring in the troops... otherwise, there are a whole lot of other people that would probably enjoy the use of their tax money protecting them.

Hmm you are placing yourself in the criminals shoes, but not the victim. Would you say the same if it were someone in your family? That this is a waste of tax dollars?

I am very hard to lie to, and so are a lot of investigators. If you lie to me, then I will question the second thing you say to me. If you suddenly change to a happy mood because you didn't have to lie the second time, then I know you are being sneaky. This same scenario has played out with the mother. She has given them reason to look into her story further. No one here is to blame for police checking her house than her. She has brought this on by not only telling police a story that is hard to picture and reason, but also changing her timeline of events.

The least thing I would be worried about is being hauled away to jail if my child was missing. Her priority seems selfish, and points to paranoia. Why is there paranoia?

The cops tried to recreate the crime by climbing in the window. Didn't the dad say when he came home the front door was unlocked and the mother admitted that she was uncertain she had locked it. MAYBE...whoever (if someone did) did this didn't go through the window in the first place. You are right someone had to boost another cop to the window, but maybe they didn't use the window at all. I heard the boys say the heard a noise, but again parents are allowing the boys to be interviewed, maybe they heard something after all. Someone could have tampered with the window to make it "look" like that was the entry point. I am not sure, just some thoughts.

Tony, I am intrieged as to why you were given a polygraph??

Do tell....

I'm starting to think that she was dropped out the window to someone else so that there was no chance of her making noise going thru the house. It is something that is just starting to make more and more sense.

Of course I wouldn't, Tone. The family would always want EVERYONE to look... it is just the selfish nature of people when it comes to their own. I totally understand it. I've put myself in everyone's shoes... except the victim. I can do it now. I'm sleeping. Someone picks me up and now it's dark. Maybe I see the face of the person who grabs me, but I'm 10 months... I can't ask "what's up?" I've come up with scenarios for everyone and the sad thing is that all this does is tick me off because it isn't hard to believe that any of them didn't occur. The parents... mom in particular are damning themselves with their behavior. Their body language is killing them. It is obvious that dad is distancing himself from her because he has never done an ounce of comforting to her. I don't believe he has even defended her.

Don't get me wrong, Tony, I'm not saying that I think someone else did it, but the cops need to focus on the case and reducing the number of "what if's"... because right now, no one is being convicted of anything.

keels, no it wasn't because of a crime.. lol

It was for a job. And the job involved private investigations.

Kink, by victim, I mean the family of the missing person. Those who are hoping police leave no stone unturned in their efforts to solve what happened.

I know... I'm being a jacka$$... thanks for playing. heh heh

Before I came put blame on anyone in the family, I tend to think of Jaycee Dugard's step-father. He was a suspect for years, it ruined his marriage, people were convinced that he sold his step-daughter on the black market, he was a social parriah for almost two whole decades and, in the end, it turned out that he had been telling the truth the whole time. I believe he was a victim as well as Jaycee. I wonder what this family will go through "if" they are truly innocent of any wrong doing in this case and their baby isn't found soon. I hope that they are innocent, but in that case, the person responsible will probably never be found because everyone is looking at the family. How sad...

Wow, look at all the arm chair investigators today.

I know how most people feel about polygraphs (unreliable) but authorities said the father passed the test, the mother did not..

So what, if the experts all agree they are so unreliable they cannot be used in court unless both sides agree to it?

The police have followed over 550 leads to their end. With DB making false statements, failing a lie detector and JI acting so strangely why wouldn't the police continue digging into them as the most likely suspects?

Stubbles - just because one child's disappearance happened to not be the familys fault after years of accusing the step father, does not mean that is the case here.

If the police turned a cheek to all the inconsistent and ever changing stories that the mother is giving, and they never solve the case, and years from now find out it was the mother, can you imagine the uproar then?

has any article mentioned what kind of dog was in the house..?? a case recently was mom passed out drunk, dog attacked & killed baby, other little kids were screaming but couldn't wake up mom. Mom now facing prison time.

The mother's story keeps changing. Someone in that family is keeping the 2 boys from being interviewed.

You would think with all the crocodile tears and pleas on the tv interviews, both parents would be more that happy to have the older children try to help the police.

I don't think the two boys had anything to do with their little sister's death or disappearance but they may have heard it or seen something that the parent's do not want the police to find out about.

It's terrible that after years of seeing this type of thing happen to young children, that after time, we can't believe in the concept of innocent until being proven guilty.

When you hear the mother speak, close your eyes and listen closely. Not only does it sound like deception, the mother seems to bring the conversation around to how she is the real victim of the police, not that her child is missing.

As I wrote in my post above, I have wondered about the boys too. I don't assume anything malicious about them but accidents do happen.

It is easy for the subconcious mind to take over a child.

(The subconcious mind can act like a self centered and very dangerous protector who is always in survival mode without regard for morality or right and wrong. It can make "accidents" happen without the concious particpation of those involved)

James, I'm not going to argue with you, but I'll play devil's advocate for you. Let's see how I do, huh?

The sex of the offender at the moment is irrelevant, but we'll stick with your assumption of a woman. If it is a friend of the family or relative that talks to them, they would have know that he was going to do the overnite shift. Not like they sprung it on him that morning. She's a stay at home mom, so she talks to people and has a tendancy to say what is going on. People would have known that he was working his first over night shift.

Mom being passed out drunk is irrelevant... the person only needed to know the time that she normally went to sleep in order to do this. Just because she was passed out earlier, does not mean the crime was committed earlier.

As you've already mentioned, the person needs to have been at the house before in order to do that. If the kids are sleeping after midnite, they are not an obstacle. I don't know if the dog is an outside dog or not, so I don't know how much of an obstacle the dog was. Once the dog got to them, it would be quiet, since it knows them.

If it was a family member, neighbor, or close friend... they may have had a key to the house. They would have went in thru the front, opened the window to make it look like a break in, turn off the baby monitor before disturbing the baby, knock the baby out with something (chloroform or just a gag), and turn the monitor back on when leaving the room.

The cell phones... I thought about this for quite some time, and the only thing that I could think of is if there are no hardlines out of the house. That would delay a call to 911 and stop a call if caught in the process. If mom or dad did it, maybe they did searches for something that they'd rather not have found out about.

I do have to agree with you... the longer this goes, the more I believe this little girl is gone.

Ok, James... that's my devil's advocate to your points... what do you think?

I believe one of the original articles stated that the parents each had one child from a previous relationship before having the baby together.

I have not seen enough to make me sure one way or the other, it could have been someone in the house, or it could have been an intruder. I hope for the baby's sake this is one of those cases of a nutty woman who wants a baby so bad she steals one, and the baby's being well taken care of and hopefully returned soon.

Other than Lisa there were only three other people in the house, the mother and the two boys from her previous marriage. The intruder story has all the characteristics of a made up event designed to rid the parents of responsibility. I would not be surprised to learn that the childs body was not really hidden very well, they will want it to be discovered. The cell phones will probably never be found or they were crushed, because the parents were calling each other after the babies death was discovered. Authorities can still surface a record of the calls from the cell phone company and it will show them which cell towers were transmitting the signals. They should have already done this.

Kinkomaster, Thanks for your comments but I can not buy into the intruder story at all, I wish it was so, but it just doesn't make any sense. Given this search warrant, the parents lawyering up and so forth it is clear that the police agree with me. the parents either caused the death thru their own negilgence or they are covering up for the boys ( and themselves).

Ok Kink, poking a few holes- 1) Baby monitors freak out if one shuts off. If the baby one is out, the parent one beeps and beeps. So, that is the issue with that.

2)The baby might not have made any noise being disturbed. Mine dont if they know the person (me, dad, grandma, brother, sister, auntie, grandpa, thats the extent my list of people who could do this), and depending on how careful they were (I can move other peoples babies without waking them (depending on the baby) because of my experience with my own), she would not have waken for more than a second, and babies make noise as they sleep. They giggle, groan, and cry without waking.

3)Well, If it was his first night shift, how many days had they known? Then, they need to start backwards on anyone that she has talked to about it. Or was standing there as she was talking on the phone about it. That could be impossible, depending on how much of a talker she is (in my experience, the way she is talking about this, she reminds me of me, and I am a gabber, thats why I am not so quick to blame her)

4)Was she drinking alone? My experience tells me NO. She doesnt want to talk about the boyfriend that she had over that night. Or he stood her up, she got drunk alone, and then passed out, he was caring, took the baby because she was screaming when he came in, and has her and is just waiting for her to call? OR got scared, and cant bring her back. I am going to the man walking around outside with a baby, from the beginning of this, so that is my reference.

So, theres my devils advocates advocate, lmao.

Just a thought to add to some of the theorizing here... The dad got home and said the front door was unlocked and the lights on. If the mom was drinking and put the baby down early...maybe she left the lights on and didn't lock the door.

This is so bizzare and I can only hope they find the baby alive and well.

Ok, wowed... didn't know about the monitor. Will covering it with a blanket or diaper keep it quiet on your end?

I think the baby making noise is moot. Once you get to the baby, there are a few ways to keep them quiet... huh... what if the window that was open wasn't an entry point, but where the child was dropped out to a 2nd person? Hmmm... didn't think of that until just now.

Wowed, if she is like you and goes onto boards like this, she could have posted it and if she is being stalked by someone that lives around her... they are going to know about hubby.

I have to agree with you, wowed. If she was drinking alone and passed out... it wouldn't have been in the bedroom. She would have passed out on the couch in the living room. Following your train of thought, he could have doped one of her glasses and knocked her out... then did his thing with his accomplice. He could have taken the cell phones because he made a call once she was out.

As for the cell phones, since the FBI is involved, they have access to the tracking info, as well as the actual conversations... let's thank the Patriot Act for that one.

Mom was drinking and popping pills. She could have done just about anything without remembering it, including leaving lights on and the door unlocked. People under heavy influence of substances (to the point of blacking out) tend to do really dumb things - like run their cars into electric poles and putting their baby in the washing machine instead of the crib.

Chasing "anti-anxiety medication" with a box of wine... I wouldn't rule anything out.

Okay here is another...your drunk and you don't turn the monitor on! We don't turn ours on till we go to bed. We also turn it down if the baby is making a lot of grunting or crying in her sleep noises. Mother had kitten and child in bed with her and she was drunk. I take it that she went to bed and left the lights on and the door unlocked because husband would be home up in the dark morning. When my dad worked the late shift my mom left the lights on in the kitchen so he wasn't stumbling around waking everyone up. I can move a baby without waking it or Lisa my have been standing up in the bed when the person picked her up. Babies aren't afraid and if her room was dark she would have just been happy to be picked up. My 8 year old and 5 year old sleep like the dead once they are in bed for the night. Mom said the kids had been playing earlier. They would have been worn out. This has to be someone who knows them!

Ok... I'm going to make a statement and I don't want people to go screaming at me. Truthfully, I don't think a "box of wine" knocked her out. Wine just doesn't have that high of an alcohol content and she is a BIG girl. She would have had to down the whole box to knock her out, and she would have still been drunk when the cops got there in the morning. Downing that box would have taken some time... not like she is going to shotgun it or something. If she shared it with someone, then I seriously doubt that she passed out without her friend passing out too. There has to be more to this little piece of the puzzle. Did the cops notice her with cotton mouth when they were questioning her in the morning? Drinking a lot of wine tends to do that to you.

Texas chick, I agree. I said that. The mother may not have even locked the door, so maybe someone didn't even come in the window. They say the mother sleeps with a fan on high, maybe the dog was in there with her and didn't alert. I have a little dog that sleeps in my room, and he doesn't always alert to every noise. I can totally move a baby without waking it and if she was sick she may have been in a deeper sleep.

The alcohol alone might not have done it, but mixing it with medication - I believe Xanax - probably would. Yesterday the Today Show reported she'd had five glasses of wine and taken the medication as well. I read somewhere - don't know if it's accurate or not, but I'm basing this on that - that she was drinking with a friend/neighbor. If so, has that person been questioned? Isn't it possible they could have done something to the baby? They would have been familiar with the house as well, and could have returned later, and, in some cases, neighbors have copies of keys to each other's homes. As Wowed said earlier - lots of 'could be's' but not a lot to go on other than speculation at this point. We can come up with a million scenarios, but after awhile it's like playing a game of "Clue"...

Col. Mustard... in the Hall... with the Rope...

I think one of the boys is from the Mom's marriage and the other boy is from the Dad's previous marriage.

It does seem odd that the parents won't let the boys be interviewed. If they tried to help with their little sister while Mom was passed out, there may have been an accident. The parents believe it was an accident and don't want their boys punished by the law. It won't being their little girl back. They've lost one child ~ they don't want to lose another one just because Mom was irresponsible.

I have often wondered in the Jon-Benet case if her older brother didn't accidently kill her. The report was she had wet her bed and climbed into his. Perhaps he was startled, or even angry, when she did that. Maybe he pushed or shoved her and she fell against something and died. Those parents, also, not wanting their only other child to be severely punished for an accident, staged the rest of the 'crime'. I don't remember if the brother was allowed to be interviewed or not.

Perhaps someone who knows them determined that the Mom wasn't very good at her job, and took the baby to protect her. If so, they may never find her. A person with that kind of mindset rarely decides to return the child.

Mom being passed out drunk is irrelevant... the person only needed to know the time that she normally went to sleep in order to do this. Just because she was passed out earlier, does not mean the crime was committed earlier.

When people are drunk, they often make phone calls to friends or relatives. The person at the other end would know she was drunk, and in the habit of drinking until she "falls asleep" (passes out.) The kidnapper might steal the cell phones to avoid any evidence of the phone call.

Jasonsauntie, I have to agree about the interviewing of the children. They need to be extensivly interviewed, as they may actually know what happened, and it may not have been anyone in the house. I can say that fear may have prevented them from saying anything as of yet. There are way too many "what ifs" going on to point fingers.

I'm wondering if the police have gotten a hold of the cell phone of the mother's brother.

As the days go, this is looking more dire for that poor child to be found alive.

The family cell phones are long gone but they could always check on the activity if her brother was called to help her get rid of her dead child. I have no doubt that Lisa is dead.

The father seems to be getting more and more distant to the mom. The police have no interest in him because he was at work.

I think Dad is going to crack shortly. It's probably getting harder and harder for him to ignore what his heart tells him what happened. He's getting ready to cut his loses with her.

I wonder who is paying for big shot attorney and what an attorney to pick. The guy who defended a serial killer. Woop Woop.

Kink, A diaper or something over it wouldnt necessarily make it quiet, as I believe static would have been a huge thing if it were muffled, if I remember correctly. They also can pick up noise from fairly far away. I used to keep one in the hall when my kids slept above me, so that I could hear them both, and I did. I could hear them move and breathe for the most part.

Also, how much wine is in a box? I havent ever gotten any, so I cant say me, but one big bottle of arbor mist would highly intoxify me. Add some Xanax on top- Id be done, out like a light.

Do they have access to these conversations AFTER the fact?

According to a friend of mine, thanks to the Patriot Act, conversations are recorded,scanned for keywords, and then sorted on the results. Anything flagged is held until analyzed, while the rest is erased and recorded over. I don't remember the timeline that I was given. I wanna say about a week.

If she is mixing fake wine with meds, then it's easy to pass out. I repeat, tho, wouldn't she have just crashed on the couch? I think we're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

I think its extremely sad that so many people are pointing fingers at the 2 young boys. Is it a possibility? Of course.. lots of things are at this point. But until some piece of evidence (big or small) is found showing even a shred of possibility that it was either one of those boys, or until we get to hear either one of them speak, I think its just wrong.

I agree, mama! And, Kink, thanks for the info. And, yeah, I am thinking she passed out on the couch, or went in to bed, leaving someone else to do the nightly lock-up. Wondering more and more about a boyfriend that she doesnt want to mention. I also wonder if he took the baby until she could leave. There are a thousand reasons for that, and all of them have to do with either protection, or downright "shes mine, not yours!" I wonder about the dads story. Where is the mother for his boy? Why does she not have him?

true that. some women want a child badly enough that they do crazy things.

I have to say I agree with you on that. I do wonder about the man those neighbors saw "clutching a baby to his chest, walking down the road" the night that it happened. I am wondering if mom is having the baby abducted, and have been for quite some time.

Hoping the baby is ok.

But this "abductor" would also have to know the dad was starting his first day at a night time job, know the mom was drunk and passed out, and know the right windows to break into and the path to take the phones on the way out.

WAY too many coincidences.

If the mom had the baby abducted (maybe dad was a pedophile?), then she would have told the person he was working. I thought the very same thing when I first learned all the cell phones were taken. It would have been very thought out and methodical, just like this. I would do it if I found out my kids dad was hurting them, and there was no way to prove it to get him sent away.

The only ones making comments about guilt and the case is the family.

even if i've been drinking, i still know i hear people come into my house. i mean, i think you'd have to be darn near OBLITERATED to not hear it

That's a panic response Scalzo.

I hate to refer to Columbo, lol, but remember when he would turn and ask the suspect "just one more question"? And he would hit them with a zinger then watch how they react from that point on? They provide the paranoia and see if you react. If police have a checklist on things to look for on guilt, they have a check in that box.

Miami, not to sound really bad, but I have been so obliterated that I wouldnt hear a bomb go off next to me, or care. I didnt do it when my kids were home, however.

Yeah, but you weren't also taking prescription meds at the same time you got blotto, either, Miami.

Tony, if the mom was setting up the abduction, she would have told whoever took the baby her boyfriend was working the late shift, then deliberately taken the medication and gotten drunk as her cover story. She would also have handed over the cell phones - they may have been disconnected from regular service at that time, but could have been used prior to set things up.

Damn. I've watched too much "CSI"...

Freedom, that's a believable scenario, but also leaves the mom as having knowledge. The unbelievable part here is a stranger breaking into a home to steal a baby. Likely scenarios point to someone in the home, or as you say someone they knew.

hmmm, maybe its just me, but there are a few things really not right about this case, starting with the no fly zone over the house, to the reporters not being allowed within vieweing range of anything. i understand wanting to keep a case solvent, but we also have the surrendering of all video footage previous to this. having the national gaurd come in.... also a wee bit on the odd side.

i cant think of any real secret procedure they would have concerning the scent dogs. there is something with this case that they are making it more high profile day by day. not sure what it is...

i do agree this does have the making of a set up abduction, but why all the secrecy from the police when it comes to this search, and demanding all vid footage?

even if i've been drinking, i still know i hear people come into my house. i mean, i think you'd have to be darn near OBLITERATED to not hear it

Mami, apparently you are a normal drinker. Alcohol affects different people VERY differently depending on their innate biochemistry. When I drank, I wouldn't have heard anything. Once I was renting a room and my landlord apologized to me "for all the commotion last night." I had NO idea what he was talking about, but apparently his former girlfriend had come over and tried to kill his current girlfriend. Cops were called, an ambulance sent, the whole bit. And I didn't hear anything whatsoever. Needless to say, I no longer drink.

They aren't bright enough to fool a truly competent forensic team.

You may be right R. Scalzo, but it looks to me they would have gotten this second search warrant before now, the longer that time passes the less time they are able to find what they might need to bring more leads, the first search was probably the better time to have gotten forensics's because it was not long after baby Lisa went missing.

I'm thinking that the police got a search warrant because the parents have now "lawyered" up. They need to do everything to protect themselves legally,or to follow the letter of the law. If they should find something inside the home that leads to finding Baby Lisa and they don't have a search warrant then the evidence may be thrown out during a trial.

just a thought...

I have to admit there have been a lot of questions that are answered or misrepresented in posts and articles here on the vine...

you read that this couple is married and then they are not married and she is married to a solider overseas. That the two boys in the house are her sons by a previous marriage, then somewhere else that they are his sons by a previous marriage..Is the Father still married as well? If so were are the other spouses. Have they been questioned?

I have noticed that we are not hearing much from the neighbors..or the neighbor that she was drinking with. Who was taking care of Baby Lisa? I have an eight year old granddaughter and a almost ten month old grandson...They are never left alone in a house together, actually they are not left alone together in the same room for a few minutes..."She is only eight years old and is as irresponsible as any eight year old. She loves the baby dearly and is constantly wanting to play with him and hold him. And I would not put it past her to want to give him an extra cuddle and pick him up thinking she was capable(which she is not) he is a wiggle worm and she could drop him in a second. same with wanting to feed him, when she is allowed to, I am right there reminding her not to stick the spoon down his throat.

Do I think they are protecting the boys...uhhhhh no, well maybe. They may be smart enough to realize that at the very least the mother could face certain legal charges. Being under the influence of drugs and alcohol while taking care of a child is neglectful at the very least. Especially since Baby Lisa was on meds and should have been checked constantly. She could have choked on her own vomit or suffocated.Have a friend who lost their three year old grandson that way. He was on cough medicine and choked on his own vomit while sleeping.

It is so sad to read about this story..it gets deeper and deeper..I can never understand how people can be heartless and possibly harm their own child..nevertheless a 10 month old..I have a beautiful blond hair blue eyed 8 month old baby girl..she is the most precious thing to me along with her brother and older sister..I can't believe they found burned clothing??? and showed it to the parents...dang..all bad..I don't think this story is going to have a happy ending..its a gut feeling, but I am going to continue to be HOPEFUL Baby Lisa is found safe and unharmed.

The police have cleared the father, by checking his alibi, he was at work did leave and reported the baby missing at the appropriate time he would have arrived home.

Nobody is cleared until that baby is found....

Yes the father has an alibi but that still dont mean that he wasnt involved.He was,conveniently, working a night shift for the first time (perfect alibi)....Maybe he found out that he wasnt the real father, and made her choose him or the child and with her already having two children new she could not raise them on her own so they had someone to get rid of the baby for them and that is y she got so drunk...did they ever say where or who had the children when her and her brother were video taped buying wine and baby supplies? If not,maybe they left the children home alone with the oldest in charge and something happened to the baby while they were gone and they r covering for the mother and other child and that is y they wont let police question them again...I have all kinds of theories and i have to say the parents r involved one way or another in all of them

Rayla Jacinto-murphy, Sure, why not investigate where the kids were? Why not say the mother left the older kids home with the baby & something happened? WHY NOT? Apparently, you know more than I do about this...and, to me, it just doesn't add up that the older kids would have done something....They were YOUNG kids, for pete's sake.

Hey...for everyone who's speculating...MAYBE THE SAME PERSON WHO KILLED CAYLEE ANTHONY, OR JONBENET RAMSEY, OR TOOK BABY SABRINA TOOK BABY LISA. MAYBE THE SAME PERSON WHO SUPPOSEDLY KIDNAPPED KAYDEN HORAK (THE 6 YEAR OLD BOY WHO WENT MISSING FROM HIS SCHOOL) TOOK BABY LISA. See how ridiculous SPECULATION sounds?

I can promise you this much...IF the kidnapper found out there was a reward involved, SOMEBODY would be coming out of the woodwork to claim they saw Baby Lisa (or a baby that looks like her). Because there are no takers right now, maybe the parents offered that much money because they KNEW nobody would come up & claim the money...but, until we know for sure what happened, it's all speculation.

I hope they find little Lisa. If she isn't found, I hope they find out what happened, at least.

I believe the reward is being offered by an anonymous donor and not the parents.

JMW-

The reward is being offered by the person the mom and dad sold Baby Lisa to. They made up the kidnapping ruse to explain why she's suddenly not there. Mom claims to have been drunk the night of the sale so that the police will believe her when she says she knows nothing and Dad chose to work the night shift that night so he'd also be believed when he says he knows nothing. The older boys are being kept quiet because they are loose ends. Think about it for a moment. One income supporting a family of five. Desperate times. Dad is silent and stone-faced during interviews because he doesn't want to give anything away and Mom is still crying over her guilt. Baby Lisa is alive and well, and will remain hidden until her facial features have changed enough to make her unrecognizeable. And the reward money wil never have to be paid.

I just meant that the parents themselves hadn't offered the reward. I have been wondering about this "anonymous donor" though. I wonder if the police have a way to find out who it is? I definitely think the mother is involved in some way or another. Her ever-changing story is fishy.

It said in the article that they family hasn't been home the last few days and told investigators that the reason they aren't is so they won't interfer with the investigation. No where does it say that the family isn't letting them search the house willingly.

jogree: Good post. Your description of the smell is totally on track!

Haley Cummings the little girl from Florida. They haven't found her.

movibuff459A, although my sons were never taken from my home in the middle of the might, I am/was a very sound sleeper. I had small children in the house too. And, it doesn't AWAYS turn out to be a family member. Does the Lindberg case ring a bell?

Oh yeah...and for the person who was talking about the dog barking when someone broke into the house...I HAVE A DOG THAT DOESN'T BARK...SHE CAN, & WHEN I PLAY WITH HER, SHE DOES, BUT SHE WILL NOT AND DOES NOT BARK ANY OTHER TIME. I hope you aren't trying to convince all of us with your theory...I hope maybe you're just convincing yourself.

The mom said the dogs always barked at things at night. Her excuse was maybe the dogs were asleep under the boat at the back of the house and didn't hear the intruder. This "kidnapper" came in through the front window, in the computer room. The truth doesn't change!!!!! Only lies change.
I believe in her drunken stupor she accidentally killed the baby. When he got home they knew she would be blamed for negligence so he helped her make up the story. The parents took the cell phones and the dead baby several miles away and buried her. When they find her their will be three cell phones in her grave with her. That is why he acts so weird, he knows what happen, but don't want to lose her wife. And for Christ's sake stop blaming the boys! She shows real tears because she lost her baby girl, who she would never have hurt if she wasn't a drunk in denial.

Her excuse was maybe the dogs were asleep under the boat at the back of the house and didn't hear the intruder.

They only have one dog, the other dog belong to a neighbor. That dog disappeared the same night Baby Lisa did.

Whose dog, the Irwins, or the neighbors, and where is this news source at? I am really curious, please provide a link.

The neighbor's dog was the dog that went missing, I read this in another article but im sorry Wowed by force I dont have a link for it.

I heard it on the local radio, I am sure there is probably a transcript. They were interviewing the neighbors.

Ok, cool, I googled it and came back empty. Thanks.

I'll see if I can find it. It was either on 98.1 a KC station radio station or npr. Here is the latest from this morning.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html

The dad had not left for work yet. he didn't work a 12 hour shift, just 8 hrs.

Obtaining a full forensic and potentially destructive search warrant requires a very well defined probable cause. The police may not have been able to obtain the DA's assistance in obtaining a the judge's signature until either there was the legal assumption that the child was dead or some nearly irrefutable evidence that arrest would be the conclusion of such a search.

She's not the first mother that drinks till their drunk and not the last...I don't think CPS would really have a leg to stand on with that accusation.

Seriously Brian? If she killed her child, she wouldn't be the first or last mother to do that either. Just because other parents drink around their kids doesn't mean the CPS wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Brian, you apparently do not live in TX and I said black outs not just drunk.

Dakota Kyle, I'm not too sure that your story works out. You see, her sons are ALREADY taken away from her. If she thought the kids would be taken away from her because she drank, it wouldn't do her any good. I think MAYBE just maybe this could be another baby Sabrina case. She, too, was supposedly taken from her bed in the middle of the night. The parents haven't found her, and they continue to say they aren't guilty.

THIS COUNTRY HAS A PROBLEM...THE PARENTS OF THIS BABY GIRL ARE BEING PRESUMED GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I hope that the mother had nothing to do with it, & I'd bet a ten dollar bill, the father knows NOTHING about where his baby girl is...just because he's 'acting' weird doesn't mean a thing. I'm not sure any of us know how we would act in that circumstance.

Dakota Kyle, I'm not too sure that your story works out. You see, her sons are ALREADY taken away from her.

I haven't heard anything about the sons being taken away. Where did you get that idea from?

I'd bet a ten dollar bill, the father knows NOTHING about where his baby girl is

How sure are you? That's not really a very large bet. Although he has an alibi so that definitely limits how much he could've been involved.

It wasn't a month, it was 6 months before Caylee's body was found. It was a month before she told anybody that Caylee was missing

Casey never reported her daughter missing. Ever. It was grandma who finally called.

This article is the first I've read about a fire in a dumpster near the family home right before the parents reported Lisa missing. I truly hope that is not connected.

Nope, that is true.

The dad creeps me out. His eyes, the way he sits so still, the way he speaks...it all just makes my skin crawl.

Please read my reply #15.3. I have a whole theory on his part in this.

Thanks

I hear you. Children go missing every day, black, white, Hispanic, rich, poor...for some reason, some cases catch the national media's attention, others do not. Every missing child should get local media attention - for the purpose of finding the child, not for persecuting the parents. There is no reason a missing black child should get any less attention than a missing white child. All children deserve equal protection and coverage from law enforcement and the media.

I feel the same way. I am white, so I do not have the same perspective as a minority, but I have wondered about all of the attention on this blond haired blued-eyed baby girl versus the amount of attention that might go into prosecuting some of the thugs that routinely drive-thru areas of Kansas City and gun down small black children outside (and sometimes inside) their homes. It is horrible. There is no doubt that the media hardly gives 2 seconds of air time to these poor innocents that are regularly killed. And I have to admit, I am not shocked anymore to hear of these incidents, and it saddens me that I feel that way. Every child is precious, regardless of race or socio-economic status. Our society should be outraged when any child is missing, hurt, or killed.

Children of all ages and races disappear every day. The media chose to sensationalize this one.

Grow up, and stop your race baiting.

Media attention doesn't solve a crime. Investigators do. As long as each case has an open investigation, then what's the difference?

I agree with Maingear, stop baiting.

I am white, so I do not have the same perspective as a minority

I am Hispanic, so I don't have a White perspective..

Lol, I felt dumb just writing that.

mucho estupido..lol

estupido en la cabeza. lol

Seriously!!! Reread the article and then read what you put. The Dad was at work so he would not have heard anything. Also kids don't hear everything in the middle of the night while they are sleeping. Just incase you didnt know not all dogs bark at inturders.

I am not saying she did or did not do it. Also I do think it is sad that the media controls what attention missing children recieve. All childred no matter what color should fget equal media attention.

On your 1st paragraph: I just saying read the article dont skim it and then post something that is laughable.

si Antonio, yo hablo un pequeno Espanol, porque muy mal

• 800,000 children younger than 18 are missing each year, or an average of 2,000 children reported missing each day.
• 200,000 children were were abducted by family members.
• 58,000 children were abducted by nonfamily members, and
• 115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. These crimes involve someone the child does not know, or knows only slightly, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.

so....race really has something to do with it?!?!? only a minority would have the gall to bring it up. idiot!!! you bring up 2 cases comparing 2 kids. what about the other 1996(average per day) kids that went missing on those days??? idiot!!!

si, y yo mal tambien.

For anyone thinking the original poster's comments were "racist" or whatever, just google Missing White Woman Syndrome or Missing Pretty Girl Syndrome. It's a media term describing the disproportionate degree of coverage given to young, white, attractive, females as opposed to men, women of color, unattractive people, or people of lower socioeconomic classes.

You should pay more attention to the whole story...the father wasn't home at the time the girl was reported missing and I don't believe that the parents have allowed the police to speak to their other children.

And thousands of children go missing every day, the media latches on to only 1 or 2 of those stories and follow them. A pretty, white, teenage girl went missing in my small hometown a few months ago, and was then found brutally murdered by a teenage boy and that never made it into the National spotlight. A homicide of that magnitude has NEVER happened there and you didn't see it in the news, did you? National media can't cover every missing/murdered/raped child story, it's just not possible. It doesn't mean they don't deserve equal attention, it's just the way it is.

While I don't agree with you about the mom having something to do with it, I do agree with you about pretty, white females garnering more national attention than any other segment of the population. The same day Jon Benet was murdered, a little black girl was found brutally murdered in a stairwell in New York. No one remembered or heard about that little girl.

Being the eternal optimist, I have high hopes little Lisa will be found alive. I hope they're looking at the neighbor she was drinking with. Was the neighbor plying her with wine so she could kidnap and sell her baby? Blonde, blue-eyed girls are highly sought after. I know it's out there, but just wondering.

Re read the story and get off your soap box. Why do people like you have to turn everything into a race issue? There are plenty of WHITE children that go missing and don't make the national news. Get over yourself. People like you are what really cause racism in the US.

AracelisFromMass,

The Davis case was (and still is) all over the news here so you need another case to prove your point.

Come on! This discussion is about a missing child, and you bring RACE into it?!?! Seriously - It's people like YOU that make race still an issue in this country.

I care.

Aracelis,

Hmmmm...... I read it, I know about it, so it must be public informaiton, BUT..... mostly I want to comment on why it probably has not been talked about all over the news like this one.

1st... if you know so much about it, you would also know that the mother of this poor child has had ALL her kids taken away from her for marrying a PIG Child Molester as a husband. This little girl came after the courts took the others away.

2nd....if you know so much about it, you would also know that the mother BEAT her kids, over and over for YEARS before the state took them away from her.

3rd....if you know so much about it, you would also know that the mother is pregnant again and has made many comments that has made the police have a suspect...... HER AND HER POS Husband.

RACE??? the only one making it about race is you! This is a POS HUMAN BEING nothing to do with color of skin.... get with the times we are no longer holding raciest cards, we do not make SLAVEs out of only one race... WE ARE ALL SLAVES now... Get over yourself!

And you can get a job, college education(without paying), and lame excuses for being a looser....... And wait for it......... Based on the color of your skin. We have a black president..... learn proper english, get an education, and earn your way on your own......It's time to end affirmative action.

Instead of bringing race into this story why don't you consentrate on neighborhood watch? If more neighbors would ban together and keep an eye out then perhaps the police would have more leads to go on. I do watch what happens in my neighborhood, I know who should be in my area and those that are questionable. My family says I am nosey, I see it as my civic duty to know what happens in my surroundings. Be aware. If you think that race is the trump card to get media attention think again. Kids from all race are abducted, raped, killed everyday. be aware. Talk to your neighbors, know who should and should not be in your area. And get off the race card.

Precious Doe....She was a little black girl found dead with no head. Kansas City never forgot her or the media...This went on here in KC till her mother and step-father were caught, charged, and convicted.

Race, Color, National Origin, Religious affiliation… all are used to divide us. Any time someone tries to suggest a motivation associated with any of the above – it only serves to divide us. Yes racial/religious/other discrimination exists. Yes racial/religious/other prejudices exist. But only because that person is ‘someone else’ – as soon as the tragedy occurs within your own group/neighborhood the attitude suddenly shifts. When will we all learn from the phrase that was made famous by Abraham Lincoln in his speech to the Republican State Convention in Springfield, Illinois on June 16, 1858 - "A house divided against itself cannot stand" And yet every day people listen again and again to the messages that are constantly repeated by the media, the preachers, and by the common person on the street – about the ‘colored’ person or the ‘foreign’ person or the ‘ignorant’ person. What happened to the HUMAN person? Have we again forgotten that we all inhabit this miniscule speck of real-estate in a backwater corner of a non-descript galaxy? Have we all forgotten that we are each one responsible for our own thoughts and attitudes – particularly those directed toward our fellow human beings? Where is our compassion? Where is our love for our ‘fellow man’ (supposedly preached by all religions)? Where is our HUMANITY? Wake up! See the judgment that exists in your own heart and mind against those ‘other’ people – and do something about it. Start today. Do it now.

One reason this story is in the media so much is the way she went missing. An unknown intruder went into their house and walked out with their daughter. That would make headlines in any city and any race. I am not saying that is what happened but that is the story that the media received and for at least 2 days was reported that way without skepticism.

Enoughisenough, maybe you should work on your own English before criticizing someone else. I think you meant "loser" not "looser." Your punctuation is also terrible.

well what some one will do for love...what about the parents over the years that have hidden their children's deaths for no reason but one of them or both of them wanted the "problem" gone who knows but its obvious you watch this story close enough nothing they have said adds up and their actions speak for themselves. the mother has lied more than once and its caught on tape and about the dad he is just too quiet and if you are so innocent why stop talking to police after a failed lie detector, hire a lawyer, and well just plain old stop cooperating? maybe their thoughts are the baby was too much too soon and not now she isn't even divorced from her first husband yet her husband is a war vet. technically she cheated on her husband and had another baby and she would have to to do some serious pay out to get divorced pending on state laws she wouldn't get a penny and maybe even lose her other children. they can always do the dirty and make another one later in life .....that is if they aren't in jail and you need something serious for a warrant not just a hunch, see the whole story again from beginning to now and think about what you said again. hell listen and take notes...nothing adds up!!!

The parents aren't married and the mom is actually still married to someone else. I agree with ThereseinAZ that the dad didn't have enough time to be the one to hide the body. Didn't the mom say she was drinking with a friend? I wonder if the friend has been interviewed...maybe he/she helped.