We haven't had true capitalism in this country for a long time. We have statism. We have an oligarchy. We have two parties who are the same party. We are played like perch on a fishline. The protesters are useful idiots, their masters are the people they are railing against. One World Order, One World Currency, One World masters and how they propose to get there....you're seeing it's beginnings now. Total chaos demands order, the people will become so desperate that they will agree to anyone who will offer them a solution and guess who will offer them that order....at a price.

Companies and corporations have this ceaseless drive to cut benefits/wages in order to increase profits.

Reducing wages of the working class means fewer and fewer goods and services being sold resulting in more companies going bankrupt resulting in more workers being unemployed and more social unrest.

"Capitalism produces it's own gravediggers" - K. Marx

For decades citizens have allowed leaders and the wealthy to chart a most unethical course of destruction to the planet and everyone and everything on it. It's most natural that the pressure which has built up to be released, like a mighty earthquake.

People want equity and fairness, not so difficult to understand. We all want to find happiness, and it's not found in wealth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZ0IFyBNsc

I think one of the protesters signs directed at Wall Street and the big banks says it all:

"YOU created this crisis, WE will not pay for it"!

The way you SOLVE this problem, is that you cut it out AT IT'S ROOTS. The way you do this is that you COMPLETELY GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE FREE MARKET ---- AND LET IT GO ---- LET IT GROW!

Communism is slavery. Let me repeat that, COMMUNISM IS SLAVERY. If you don't believe me, just ask anyone who has ever lived in a communist country.

These "occupy" attitudes THAT ARE BEING DRIVEN BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ---- ARE VERY DANGEROUS FOR US ALL ---- BECAUSE ONCE YOU BECOME A COMMUNIST COUNTRY ---- IT'S GAME OVER ---- YOU HAVE NO MORE FREEDOM.

People, get you heads out of your @$$e$!!!!!!!! What you should be doing ---- IS FOCUSING YOUR ENERGY AND ATTENTION ON INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE SOLUTIONS TO FIX OUR ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The names of some of these people are MITT ROMNEY, RICK PERRY, NEWT GINGRICH!

marlen

The people who created this mess on in Washington DC. Why aren't the protesters in front of the White House and Capitol Hill???

hummbird.

I'm NOT afraid of a black man in the white house... just the current one there.

that's why I'm supporting Herman Cain... if you weren't aware if it, HE's also a black man.

the difference is... Cain isn't blaming the other guy and actually has some ideas to FIX the problems instead of just buying more votes like the current occupant

Quoting Karl Marx marlen? Why don't you move to China or Cuba; they use his system there.....oh yeah, Russia tried it too, and man, it worked out really swell!

Al Floer,......True, it is the greed and influence of money in American politics that is the problem, and while the protests may influence some politicians somewhat, they will not end Congress's addiction to corporate guidence and dollars.

However, there may be a way for voters to unite and construct a wall between Congress and corporate money and foreign influence. Through state by state voter propositions, people's 'Conflict of Interest' laws can be enacted which forbids public elected representatives from accepting campaign donations from any source their particular public office is not empowered to represent in an official capacity in whatever legislative body.....When a candidate pledges, and is elected (hired) to represent a particular client (constituency) and their interests, they have entered into a verbal contract that is binding. From that point on, the loyalty of an elected representitive (like that of an attorney) is with their client above all other...............Attorneys and judges are barred from conducting business for violating a state or national 'conflict of interest' code, so why should elected representatives not be subject to the same rules and penalties ?

My, 2000 protesters in a city of 9 million. And the numbers are the same throughout the country, or less. This in an era of instant communications, facebook, etc. We get a bigger turnout at high school football games. You started small, and seem to be staying small. Oh, and why are "celebrities" so important? They are no better than the rest of us, just RICHER. You don't see Michael Moore turning down the money he makes for his "mockumentaries".

While I agree things have to change, the change has to begin in Washington. If you must protest, for God's sake go there.

No, it's not necessary to concentrate all energy on D.C. I believe those people can hear us from there and they know exactly what the protest is all about. Democracy has been undermined by corporate influence that displaces human constituencies and their interests. If you work for a living, your quality of life diminishes as well as that of your children. To pay for these Endless Wars and Military Interventions and Defense Contractors, working people have to give up jobs, salary and benefits.

When elected officials begin losing their jobs, their generous salaries and lifetime benefits, perhaps they'll begin to realize that with a 90% disapproval rating, people will stop voting for them.

As more and more people lose employment, go through savings, then lose their homes and futures, the more people will take to the streets.

marlen101917

I think one of the protesters signs directed at Wall Street and the big banks says it all:

"YOU created this crisis, WE will not pay for it"!

Sure you will, unless you decide not to pay your taxes, assuming you work.

WS, what did we go over about you using "rectally-derived statistics" again?

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country." JFK

Instead of these protesters wasting their time they could be learning a trade, bettering their community, helping others, volunteering, giving blood, recycling, bettering themselves, reading a book, exercising, etc.

Please stop demanding "this and that." No one owes you anything. If you want something then earn it by hard work, sacrifice and perseverance. Life isn't fair. It is tough.

I wanted to go to college out of high school but I couldn't afford it. I didn't protest. I joined the Army and served my country. I gave four years and then made my future. I earned it. It was freaking hard but I EARNED it. No one gave me anything. I got a degree and then another degree. I worked for what I have. No one owes me anything.

America needs to get back to personal responsibility!

WHY aren't the students who want a "free college" protesting at the universities, only they set the prices?

I'll tell you why. This is about "Party" not issues.

This starts at Wall Street because that is where the money is changed every day..........college debt, crooked politicians, scam mortgages....all start with the money changers......the rest are symptoms.....the head of the snake is Wall Street.

Duncanci,

I've seen some idiot comments dude, but yours is really stupid.

There's 30 million people out of work because of Wall Street Banksters. And where are all these frickings jobs you believe are out there??? They are gone dude???

These Ba$$tards shipped them off to their Communist good buddies in Communist China................

For two years plus the Wall Street banking traitors have been making billions betting long on oil prices in the derivatives markets with profits they have made from US taxpayers bail out funds.

These long buys in the oils future’s markets have been pushing the price of gas, tires, heating oil, and everything else made from a barrel of oil way up when world wide demand has been at it’s lowest in many years. (That’s you paying $3 to $4 per Gal.)

In other words when these filthy rich banking traitors paid themselves the bonuses from the bail out funds from their securities fraud schemes … they owned and bought lots and lots more of oil stock in the major oil company’s. (That’s you paying $3 to $4 per Gal.)

So for several years these soulless gluttonous traitors dressed in designer suits have been using the multiple billions of dollars made off of US tax payer’s bailout money to not only make money colluding together forcing oil futures prices up in the derivatives markets, they also profit at the trough of the oil companies billion dollar quarterly profits.

Two birds with one stone.

Is this an act of treason?

It was Wall Streets Investments Banking firms who for 70 plus years pushed to have the Glass-Steagall Act removed to allow them to plunder the Commercial Banks of America.

The Congressmen in 1992 who voted to allow this to happen should be investigated to see how they may have profited by this.

These traitors came within days of completely collapsing the free world economy, they destroyed their own banks loosing all of their commercial banking customer’s savings and checking accounts money in loosing trades, emptying the FDIC insurance.

Then when the US tax payers gave those trillions to shore up their sinking ships, these same traitors did not, instead they colluded together and gambled the bail out funds in massive futures long purchases on oil that forced oil and gas prices through the roof, and it worked for them.

From this group collusion gas prices spiked, their futures returned massive profits from the US and world gasoline buyer’s pockets, they then sold the bad lending paper they were supposed to use the bail out funds to clean up to foreign carpet bagging collection agencies, and sent the bail out funds back to Washington with their forefingers pointed at our forefathers.

Here is the fly in the ointment, and the bailed out bankers club just had a cold shiver go down were their spines should be.

US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq have been sucking tremendous amounts of oil from the oil and gas companies, creating a false free market demand, this is the other reason gas has been propped up, and the wars are scheduled to end, bummer.

Oil is already struggling even with the wars still active, the world economy is not demanding it, and when these two oils sucking wars get off the tit, the price is going down.

So here’s the bankers dilemma, do I keep betting long to try to pressure oil back upwards even when these futures are loosing billions daily…

(yes if I can get money out of my banking customers for fees on their debit cards, and checking accounts to feed this demon),

Or do I bet short knowing oil is going down, continue to make money on the futures purchases that will push the price of oil ever downward and screw all my oil buddies who will pull their billions out of my bank as soon as I do?

I say end both the wars, pull all funds out of any of the banks that were bailed out and raise the fees on debit cards, or checking account … and watch the rich eat the rich.

When will the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act be fully funded by congress? It is going on two years now, and these bankers are still allowed access to the commercial banks funds for trading in the derivatives markets, and the US economy is stagnated because small business owners cannot afford to run a business with oil prices this high, they went out of business because of the price spike in energy cost before, and that’s what pushed millions of people out of work, loosing their homes and lead to the housing crisis America still faces.

Whose money are these protesters living on while they're away from work or out of work? Their own? Someone else's personal reserves? Welfare? Some combination of two or three of those?

The same money the original Tea Party participants used in Boston back in 1773.

Steve, a better question would be whose money are the financiers living on whose rapacious greed and grasping dishonesty caused the US banking system to fail? Whose money was used to pay these criminals such astronomical bonuses following the bailouts? These are the unanswered questions that need to be investigated. Who cares about the kids and where their beer money came from?

Personally, I want to know why the people who put us in this mess aren't in prison, starting with Bush who struck down the regulations and gutted the agencies that traditionally managed the country's money. The people responsible must be held accountable and the financial institutions must be strictly regulated to maintain honesty, transparency, and stability. Until the mostly Republican congressmen who are resisting these measures are removed from office (which will be difficult considering their pockets are bulging from the cash donated to them by these crooks) this country will remain at the mercy of the dishonest bastards who are raping the nations financial future.

So, Steve, if all you're worried about is the pocket money these kids are carrying, you have bigger problems to worry about.

For those who argue that Capitalism doesn't work............. We don't have Capitalism. If we did, we wouldn't have bailed out failed companies; we would have let them go under. And that would have been good. As it is, they are still doing the same unethical and illegal things that brought our economy down in 2008. We have to get the money out of politics and stop the corporations from buying the politicians. Nothing will change until then.

Sailcat-2064101, You're missing the point.

The greed and dishonesty in the corporate world is a given, and it does need to be dealt with. The effects of that on the rest of us needs to be better proven than to simply make declarations without verifiable data pieced togther logically.

My own situation isn't very good, but I don't have any cause to blame Wall Street for it. And I have to wonder how many people, who are in even worse shape than I am, are actively taking steps to directly improve their situations, as compared to how many are participating in these demonstrations....which obviously someone is footing the bill for. I would venture to guess that a comparison of the two numbers is pretty stark.

We have to have a governmental system born of "absolute fidelity" to the people it claims to serve. Corporations have no place here. Religious dictum's have no place here. Currency circulation, and value, must find its own balance within an environment of "non manipulated"supply and demand here. Governments proper function is to insure all the foregoing while keeping the country secure and the people safe. Corporate and/or religious interference, greed, distortion, lying, etc. at the expense of the welfare of the people governed, will result in the destruction of the system and quite probably the country.

The first American Revolution was fought by men and women that saw a wrong that must be righted. They repeatedly tried to right those wrongs with peaceful negotiation. Their efforts were scorned and ignored time and time again. The were then forced to take to the streets to rally others to their cause. Their cause was never about personal gain, but for the betterment of 13 tiny colonies that contributed great riches to the mighty British empire that left them in poverty and despair. Sound familiar? 1776 is here once more.

The founding Fathers foretold that we must renew this fight and once again shed the blood of proud Americans to preserve the United States of America.

There were Tories and Whigs then that resisted the Revolutionaries with dire warnings that the revolution would be defeated and futile against such a powerful adversary. Their warnings were ignored by a proud people determined to decide their own destiny at any cost. The strong hearts and minds of just a few Revolutionaries brought those tiny 13 colonies into the fight of their lives. The mighty British Empire was brought to her knees and the revolutionaries created the greatest nation on earth. The rest is history.

Where will you stand now? With the high and mighty that makes you shake in your boots or the brave and free that proudly stands against the oppressors( at any cost) to restore this great nation to her former glory. Your anonymousness is only an illusion You don't get a free pass like those cowards of yesteryear. You leave a vivid footprint on today's internet that exposes you for the coward that you are or the patriot willing to sacrifice all to restore the American dream. Welcome to the 21st century.

I come from a family that started poor. My parents had almost nothing when I was born. We bounced from low rent bad neighborhood apartment complex to complex, and my grandparents were the only child care they could afford while they both went to work, when my grandparents couldn't care for my sister and myself any longer, my Mom had to stop work. My Grandparents started in run down coal mining country on one side with absolutely nothing, and in a poor fishing village in Canada on ther other, also with nothing. They worked their way up, they taught my parents the value of hard work. My Dad worked full time, starting as an apprentice carpenter and went to school at night on a lot of loans to for an engineering degree. They worked their way up, and taught me the value of education and hard work too.

I worked myself to the bone in highschool to try and get a scholarship to a decent college. I didn't get much. So instead I took out a massive number of loans to try and cover my own engineering degree. I got sick, mental illness struck me and I had to drop out of school. I drifted for a number of years. Lived on couches of friends that took pity on me and subsisted on ramen for a good bit. I lived paycheck to paycheck while I could keep a job, made almost impossible at times by my bi-polar disorder. I had no health insurance.

When I left high school I thought things would go relatively smooth and easy for me. I was wrong. I struggled almost beyond belief at times. I nearly died a number of times over. I took the small amount of money I earned doing random temp work. I didn't spend it on beer, or videogames, I bought a few books... beginner computer programming, C, SQL... Every time I'd get more, I'd try to learn new things. I tried to get work doing some entry level programming, but after the dot com bubble had burst with no degree and no work experience no one wanted me.

I got jobs doing data entry. I worked hard. I lost jobs due to my illness. I kept getting myself up off the ground every time I fell. I kept learning. I finally got steady work for a bit thought I had things going well. I got sick again. I had to move because I couldn't afford my apartment. I had to drop my cell phone and get the cheapest thing I could find. I had to drop my tv subscription, pretty much everything I had except a basic internet connection that let me search for work and learn more programming. I went back to eating ramen until I found work again. I searched as much as I could to find cognitive behavioral techniques to help control my bi-polar disorder. I wasn't always successful, but I was learning how to handle it, and it was getting better.

I found another job doing data entry. I saw my employer had a poor design for what they were using, and I knew how to build something better. I offered, I proved myself, and I turned the job into something more. I worked there for a few years building database systems for them. I saved almost all the money I could except for food and put myself back into school for a computer science degree. I was getting paid data entry wages to do database developer work. I finally earned health insurance. Medication helped my illness combined with my cognitive behavioral work, and things got better. I worked full time and took classes at night. I starting learning not just programming but business and economics too. My bi-polar disorder got in the way of school and I've had to delay more than a few classes. I still have a boatload of debt from my original stint in school. I still have no degree though I'm still going to night school when my health is good and I can afford it. But I turned that one job into broader experience and used that to continue to learn new things.

I used my experience there to find another job, this one finally paying commensurately for the work I provide my employer. Things might not always be easy. My failings were my own. So are my successes. I don't blame others for having more than me, I am not envious of what they have achieved. I will continue to learn and earn my way up. I spend a lot of time reading to learn new things. In time I will earn my B.S. in Computer Science. In time I will earn a Masters in Business. I may even try for a Ph.D. in Economics. I will continue to invest in my own human capital in an attempt to profit from it later. I will delay a lot of instant gratification and getting nice things in order to live within my means and invest in my future.

I am certainly not in the top 1%. But these OWS protesters do not represent me as part of the 99% either. I work hard to provide value and expect it in return - as something I earn, not receive in undeserved handouts and freebies.

I am the 53%: http://the53.tumblr.com/

I

Funny they didn't go into detail about the people arrested. 42 people were arrested at a Citibank for trespassing. What they don't want you to know is that those 42 people were Citibank customers there to close their accounts in protest. When the manager found it out, he refused to do it. He then called the cops when they wouldn't leave. Too bad for them, about half the people there recorded the entire conversation on their cell phones.

Since the link won't work for me, if you want to see the video, search #OWS #OCT15 CITI BANK ARRESTS on youtube. It even shows the cops forcefully removing a Citibank customer off of the sidewalk and into the bank. She ended up being arrested too.

And you guys want to sit here and belittle the "hippies" all day. If they can do this to us, they'll do it to you someday.

JPM77: kudoes for your post and good luck to you.

Maddawg: If this is indeed the case, then the bank manager should have his butt kicked. If people are sincerely wanting to close out their account and the bank mgr, has them arrested, something is seriously wrong. Of course he could be afraid of a run on the bank.

I've been doing some more research, all I found on the situation is from eye witnesses. I know it's not 100% reliable, but when a lot of eyewitnesses are saying the same thing, I think it is pretty accurate.

People entered the Citibank to close their accounts. The demonstrators (all Citibank customers) were asked to leave, and when they tried to comply Citibank’s security locked them in and wouldn’t let them leave. When the police arrived, they arrested the customers for trespassing.

If you follow the "link" I mentioned above, at the end of the video you will see a woman in a business suit holding documentation proving she was a Citibank customer. She wasn't even inside the bank, just on the sidewalk. She was then forcefully removed by a plain clothes police officer. She was dragged inside the bank, and she ended up being arrested.

Not only is this disgusting, but this is the exact type of thing the Founding Fathers were afraid of when they wrote the Bill of Rights.

Sorry, LetMeExplain, they are not listening. It is comforting to those who believe they are in the position to denigrate others, as they suck in and spew out the divisive, destructive rhetoric of the manipulators. Most of the posts are "opinions" of those who claim to have jobs/incomes/businesses, adamantly believing that their hard work and planning defines their personal security. Do they actually believe that those who are living beyond their means, overextended credit, signed subprime mortgages, undereducated/undertrained, or unwilling to work in the fields/manufacturing are the only people affected by this downward economic spiral and, only they, eventually, will be enslaved/governed by the global corporations and the elite. Wake up, America! And, take a long, critical look at what is and has been happening both, globally and nationally, before it is too late!

"Anti-Wall Street Protester"

By definition, an anti-Wall Street protester would be pro Wall Street.

Think about it. Obviously the writer didn't.

How about Anti-Wall Street Demonstrator.....

This message was brought to you by The Department of Redundancy Department

*Typo in my 1st post: meant to type "24" instead of "42". The correct number is 24

5 Demands Protesters Should Make:

1) A stock exchange that prohibits hedging, high frequency trading and short selling; encourages long-term wealth appreciation; and, provides corporations efficient access to capital.

2) Congressional oversight that mandates independent verification that the Federal Reserve, Department of the Treasury, Office of the Comptroller of Currency, FDIC, FHFA, FTC, NCUA, SEC and CFTC are ethical, effective and efficient banking and market regulators.

3) A public record system that discloses ethical breaches and conflicts of interest at all branches of the federal government, and includes, at a minimum, a) Ethics Code Certifications; b) Ethics Reporting; and, c) culture assessments on an ongoing basis.

4) FINRA and PCAOB subject to Freedom of Information Act, with absolutely NO exemptions.

5) Responsible fiscal and monetary policies

marlen101917

Companies and corporations have this ceaseless drive to cut benefits/wages in order to increase profits.

Reducing wages of the working class means fewer and fewer goods and services being sold resulting in more companies going bankrupt resulting in more workers being unemployed and more social unrest.

1st of all this has been going on for OVER 35 years against labor/blue collar unions. Out sourcing and automation have given those private companies the upper hand on negotiations. To the point we have steel mills that give but 2 paid holidays, personal and sick days ? a joke. Pensions ? many mills haven't had one since 1980.

Where has the outcry been all these years ?

Not til of late, when CIVIL SERVANTS are now targeted for benefit cuts, has there been an uproar. (funny how they expect, now, for blue collar to support them..pffttt).

Anyway, back to the point, ANY vocalization of the ineffieciency of our government..I support ! Will it help ? Probably not. But generally, many of us are sick and damn tired of the same ol same ol !!

madd-dawg17
According to "The Htchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

the correct answer IS 42. It's the answer to everything!

Steve-564412: Whose money are these protesters living on while they're away from work or out of work? Their own? Someone else's personal reserves? Welfare? Some combination of two or three of those?

My mother has protested. She's in her 70's, retired and lives off her financial investments. She does quite well. That doesn't stop her from being totally pissed at what's happening. You live in a small world, Steve, if you think only welfare recipients and lazy mooches are out there protesting.

JPM77, a very sad story similar to the same story I could tell while eliciting the same sympathy. I climbed that same ladder of success by working hard since the age of ten. Unlike you, I credit my success to the many good people that helped me up that ladder. Unlike you, I willingly acknowledge a lot of help and several breaks that helped me along the way. Unlike you, I was taught that pride of oneself is unproductive. I owe everything to the poor people I left behind.

Unlike you, I never forgot those people pushing me out of despair and pointing me in the right direction. Despite my hard work and determination, they are responsible for my success. The uneducated coal miners, rural preachers and dirt farmers gathered together to lift me out of the poverty that they endured their entire lives. They did for me what no one was able to do for them. Most of them are long gone now. There has never been a shortage of unfortunates to fill their shoes.

Despite your abilities and mine, there are many that are limited to menial labor to no fault of their own. They are NOT worthless and lazy. They work their butts off from daylight to dawn to keep fresh vegetables, fruit and milk on our tables. Who in the hell are you to pat yourself on the back and call them freeloaders when they lose their jobs to corporate farms?

This is great it is about time that all of the intellectual masterminds finally figure out the obama CANNOT SPEND THE US OUT OF DEBT. Maybe they will realize that donations and bailouts by this administration will NOT BENEFIT THEM. Hopefully soros and company have come to the conclusion that you cannot buy America with another worthless stimulus and are only selling off your children's future. Keep blaming Bush but the real problem is the solyndra, gun runner, willful murder, and unauthorized wars created by the whitehouse. You can only supercede the Constitution of the US for so long before this recourse will happen.

All CEO's should work for 1 dollar a year and use the money to hire more people. they then can make more once the economy bounces back. But no more of the CEO UNION they have formed. Future pay only at 30 time the average salary in their company....... if they want to make more, they have to raise the average

And how much does Trumka make a year???

Whatever happened to the $750,000,000,000 of your tax money that, in 2008, was given as a bailout to certain Wall Street interests?

Why did these die-hard capitalists accept such a blatantly socialistic handout?

PD in CA,

I never assumed that for a second. You would know that if you had read my next post.

JPM77,

I applaud your determination and self-sufficiency in a world where many take the position that "the world owes me". Unlike what another commenter has implied, I acknowledge that you never once displayed any ingratitude in your post for the help you received, or any cheap-shotting against those who do not handle their finances as you do.

FOR GOD"S SAKE! Get this right people... Capitalism in it's current form is not FREE ENTERPRISE! It is Coporatism run amok! Supply and demand no longer exist! Competition no longer exists! The old technologies (coal and oil) are holding on to anachronistic ways of doing things with a death grip and killing through bribery and lobbyist money (thank you Citizens United) any new technological paradigms. Monopolies and multinationals rule the day. The game is rigged!!!!!

car

Trumka total compensation

$283,340.00

http://www.unionfacts.com/employees/AFL-CIO

compare that to CEO pay

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/12/ceo-compensation-11_rank.html

duncancl (post # 1.21):

Are you making your comment to the Rethuglicans? Maybe Sandra Fox from Baton Rouge, LA can give up her job to those desperately looking for work and her money to those little children living in the streets, since she has the money for expensive vacations and shows. Her comment is a disgrace to mankind. Obviously she has lived in a closed off cave, and has no clue about the unemployment in this Recession. And obviously she is one of wealthy elite with her nose in the air. She, too, is interested in maintaining slavery and low wages.

BMette

Whatever happened to the $750,000,000,000 of your tax money that, in 2008, was given as a bailout to certain Wall Street interests?

If you are talking about the bank bailouts, it was all paid back, with interest. Other parts of this money, like what was given to Gov.Motors, has not and never will be.

THE MIDDLE CLASS MARCH - THE MIDDLE CLASS MARCH - APPROPRIATE

THE PEOPLES MARCH ON THOSE THAT OWN CONGRESS - WALL STREET - YES

population of the banana republic once known as The (cough) United States oh yeah of America = 313,000,000 X .99% = 310,000,000

313 Million times 99% = 310,000,000 MILLION PEOPLE facing real death panels?

There was a major march the Reverend Martin Luther King was planning on when these brave agent of death from the shadows as all cowards took a leader down.

But, there was this unfulfilled mission, a march for all people the, I think, was going to call it:

"THE POOR PEOPLE'S march"......maybe some "Solidarity" and 10,000,000 on New York we would need the good people of New York to help out it is there future too. There is Jersey a one day stay-over or two "The Middle Class March"

@LetMeExplian Post # 1.26 ever so short moment in the film of Stewart, a jammed pack freeway, people working together you paint an accurate but it is partial as the total of the brass balls of these guys to dump the bail out on the back of the people across the board? The super committee when are they going to propose the pain, who will feel the most pain?. The kids and they were only Kids when Summers and Company "INVENTED" the intricacies of this baseless (NO RESERVES) (INSURANCE?) plenty of instruments the slices are in now have been invested so varied and unregulated even they don't know (Catastrophe waiting to happen) the risk.

Just look at the countries as Iceland which these money people really used greed to bankrupt them shorting (LetMeExpalin) not only oil but T-bills and you name it, try housing for starters it is the value placed on the note which pays an interest but no one is paying Hmmm who picks up the lost money? The Bail OUT? Oh- and the rest of the countries (Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal Switzerland, Iceland we know of, if they tip over (France is?) they were advised to buy based on the value of the house, they lost out big time.

Those countries on the verge the insistent social-economic slum called the USA. Hey don't get mad at me just drive around most of the areas east of Hawthrone Blvd when the sun starts to go down I am out of there as everyone else it is the beach for me. The Stewart idea is analogous in that no matter your political leaning you are going to get stuck in heavy traffic (financial harship) if we do not all cooperate these miscreants are trying to dismantle America.

LetMeExplain has a great idea everyone should follow his advice I plan on doing just this and I think in California the Credit Unions must accept you. I am saying you do not have to be part of a union or a an employee of a company and their are hybrid "Credit Unions" that could very well have no debit and lower check account fees.

Finally as a peaceful, easy and best of all profitable move which I added all our household debit cards from different entities for various reason the new charges plus the increase in new checks and monthly account service fee our savings (we must have a minimum of three bare min.) our savings per year is over $300.

OUR SAVINGS ARE OVER $300 DOLLARS PER YEAR -

I run a business semi account and this does not count my business account we are closing, I must have cards to do banking on my terms (hours).

I am on board with - LetMeExplain - EVERYONE CLOSE YOUR BANK ACCOUNTS AND SAVE MONEY LOTS OF MONEY IT IS EASY SO EASY - or - let them run you around as sheep. Hey make some good money by saving some money a win win.

Sitting back and doing nothing never solved anything either.

jpm Post # 1.35 - please stop with the mawkish sob story we all know your life story

Would you PLEASE stop repeating the same soap opera we all feel your pain -Please Stop -

jkm49 Post #1.35 - my reponse to you

Are you so out of touch? Thirty three years or 40 to fifty years ago a middle class family could afford to send their children to a four year college. I respectfully ask that you take your head from your comfortable pillow and look around half a century from the time periods you are referencing and I must say you are living in and worse your thought and profile of America is antiquated out of touch with today's reality so far from the facts that most Americans live under today leaves most observers speechless.

I was not going to reply but I read a fine post that applies to most Americans and even to a village farmer half way across the world under the thumb of whomever is in control of his families life - if they live or die.

You never will understand this Muslim farmer or plain ordinary man must go with the powers that control his destiny but harbours no real ill will to you or I.

Don't you see the joblessness? the meager wages? The importation of cheap labor? You certainly are no Christian please don't mock Jesus and say you are a devote Christian it could drive me to drink. don't you read labor statistics? Cost of living statistics? Do you try to understand the world has changed?

I cannot communicate with you as I believe you are so aloof, arrogant and smug. I fought so you could peacefully attend college and when released I worked my way everyday through a four year university and those times were easier than what these kids face today.

Your past fantasy is a relic dusty old relic of our past, I just have to reference your own stated time line. I happened to retie at 57 years live in Palm Springs with a branch office in Los Angeles with two business partners and they happen to be licensed CPA's.

Your smug arrogance when I and my friends secured your freedom and now you have a "let them eat cake" attitude. I should have feed you to the Cong and maybe a good decent man would be alive today.

Good Luck - I quote a decent mans post which mirrors my own philosophy I could care rather I could not care less for your good fortune it matters nothing to me I am pleased providence has blessed you.

Kim Heitz Posted - sums up my feelings jkm (why is not your son serving as my son in our Military)? Do you feel entitled not to serve after all this country has done for you? You talk a good talk? Here you have a clear idea of my feelings. Plain yet powerful statement of what life is about for most of us - what do I care of your wealth? May you enjoy more monetary success, gloat in it fancy yourself as a mega-success - here -

"People do not expect to get rich, they expect a decent days pay for a loyal employee which is no longer the standard in the world! A roof over our heads, food on the table education that we can afford, and a little nest egg and most people are happy, these are the things being taken away from the common man"

Thank you Kim Heitz for sane, rational and even true Christian morals - the best to you and yours - what most men and women the world around strive for not the riches of jkm only to live in peace and enjoy our family.

Get real jkm you are out of touch living in a bubble of years ago blind and dumb to the real world of 2011 soon 2012 lets see how great that will be. Of course you are just a dandy what does the world matter to you. The arrogance that the 99% owe it to make sure you are secure that is your holding spread around the world by the money manager you have no idea where you stand as to the risk if any to world markets and the impact on you if markets (banking) fail.

amen - sister !!!! it is Sunday a day of pryer those that seek to express free speech yes they had a permit, did the founders have to get permits? man-o-man

let us pray the goon head bashers sworn to protect and serve do not bash many Americans for free speech and assembly - the first right of a free people

what ever happened to free speech and so what if they sit for 90 days in a park they had the money to clean and offered too.

now more police rioting - the police are bashing Americans around for standing on sidewalks (this is not Syria or some middle east dictatorship or is it?) yes you have as all of you seen this - stop beating people with free assembly to voice grievances - first amendment to the constitution. ...."the law of the land if"if america is not truly free the world is in chains as we control the world over 1,000 military bases and who knows cia and private prisons

first amendment right to assemble a basic right of any people that dare to say they are a free people a free society -

Madd -

Since the link won't work for me, if you want to see the video, search #OWS #OCT15 CITI BANK ARRESTS on youtube. It even shows the cops forcefully removing a Citibank customer off of the sidewalk and into the bank. She ended up being arrested too.

Okay, lovely video taken outside the bank, where you can't hear or see anything going on inside the bank. All you are getting is some people signing through the window. Now take a look at this video, shot inside the bank:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2vtXJ0k7AA

In watching this video you will see several young people in the bank demonstrating. I don't see anyone trying to close their accounts. In fact, the only thing I see is a bunch of young people in designer clothing bitching about how much they owe on their student loans.

Not only that, they are in A BANK! for heaven's sake!!! A large group of people, berating (or is that educating???), the bank employees on why they are there, (once again, INSIDE A BANK!, you know, that place where they keep money?, where it's a federal offense to rob it?, THAT place!) they aren't doing business, they are having a pity party, they are impeding business, in fact.

And you seriously have a problem with their arrest???

The only "Socialists" that I actually know of, is the elitists. They are the ones that got that near trillion dollar "Hand out." Did you see the Federal Reserve handing out money to the poor?

So Socialism works for the rich, capitalism and destitution for the rest of us.

LONG LIVE THIS IMPORTANT PROTEST AND THANKS TO ALL OF THE PROTESTERS!!

___________________________________________________

Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family
of bankers ( The "Federal Reserve")by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest.

Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free .
Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest.

The FED's books are not open to the public.

Congress has yet to audit it. Never been audited and never will be !!!

(And that lackey of the system Herman Cain says publicly; "There is no need to audit the Federal Reserve.")

____________________________________________

Time for a second American Revolution. No taxation without representation,,,,or audit.

On TV it says it all in the back ground. A US flag hanging upside down.

That is what they want. It's not wall street. If they didn't hang is they all allow it.

GET A FRICKIN JOB. ALL ARE UPSET ABOUT STUDENT LOANS, OBVIOUSLY.

Democrats have talk radio shows, Republicans have radio talk shows. Democrats have t.v/news programs, Republicans have t.v./news programs. Democrats have their favorite commentators, Republicans have their favorite commentators. Democrats believe their job is to help all people of the country, and Republicans believe their job is to help only the rich. Democrats agree with "OWS", and the Republicans agree with the "Bagger".......So why are the republicans hating on OWS, these people are not carrying racist signs, guns, or making speeches of division?????????

Fleabaggers go home you made your point. Now get a job period!

This is getting boring now...

I guess with all of the feces covered sidewalks in lower Manhattan, they need to find new sidewalk space to crap on.

Good lord....my dog had another batch of pups.....that dam Obama..well, he gets blamed for everything anyway..lol

@Wet Willy " I guess with all of the feces covered sidewalks in lower Manhattan, they need to find new sidewalk space to crap on."

Glad to see you exercising your intellect as usual "wet willy".

As more and more information is brought to light concerning the backers,(Communist, Marxist,assorted radicals ,yes, even Nazis), of this movement , the sources of their massive funding effort ,such as, George Soros,the labor unions and billions more from sources yet to be uncovered,(it might be appropriate for congress at this time, to delve into the billions of dollars Obama and the Democrats pillaged from the treasury and handed out to their supporters and cronies early in the administration, now as always,just follow the money), and it has already been uncovered from ads that were posted on the internet and later removed, that who ever is behind this has enough to PAY these demonstrators 300 to 600 dollars a week for more than a month now, and to have their very own radical anti-American PR,(propaganda), firm based out of Canada, and to conduct such operations in multiple countries, yes,and as this information comes out and as the violence,filth, and anti- American rhetoric is shown on television in American homes night after night, and the backlash begins from middle America,(remember Chicago 68), and it will, those politicians who rushed to jump onto the extremist bandwagon for political gain, might just find themselves on the street looking for a job.

Commonsense101,

I note in your first post above that you seem to be advocating for armed revolt in this country. I hope this is not the case, but if it is, please see a psychiatrist immediately as you are obviously mentally ill. Only the mentally ill would advocate armed insurrection in this country at this time.

Also, you might wish to consult a history book sometime. We did not "bring the British Empire to its knees" as you so melodramatically state. The British had other issues to deal with besides us, and much of it was much closer to home.

We got lucky because of the logistics of the time period, unrest in Britian itself and events escalating in Europe with France. Had the British been able to bring the full focus of their military power against us, the Revolution would have failed.

While it's nice to think our forefathers sent the English packing and that we whipped them so badly that they fled back across the Atlantic with their tails between their legs, that simply isn't true.

This is important to the discussion of the Occupy movement...

http://youtu.be/4GnD1hEy3qU

I note in your first post above that you seem to be advocating for armed revolt in this country. I hope this is not the case, but if it is, please see a psychiatrist immediately as you are obviously mentally ill. Only the mentally ill would advocate armed insurrection in this country at this time.

Hitler gained his power through popularity. It's naive to think history can't repeat itself and bring in a new charismatic leader like Hitler who then has THESE POWERS ALREADY IN PLACE.

• A media that operates with complete bias and purposely tries to sway the public opinion.
• A Presidential office that can legislate using executive orders.
• A Presidential office that can declare wars without congress.
• A Presidential office that can execute Americans without Due Process
• An Intelligence agency that can monitor all activities of a citizen without a Search Warrant.
• A Police force that is increasingly being militarized. (e.g. the NYPD that can now "take down planes")

Idaho, at what point to you take up arms against an oppressive government that's taking away your freedoms regardless of which "Party" is in power?

During the Frech Revolution, the slogan was "Let them eat cake". I belive Wall St. and Multi-National Corporate Conglomerates slogan is "Let them drink Champagne". Can we roll out the guillotines, already?

Michael Coats-4292716

During the Frech Revolution, the slogan was "Let them eat cake". I belive Wall St. and Multi-National Corporate Conglomerates slogan is "Let them drink Champagne". Can we roll out the guillotines, already?

Cry us a river Michael. How is it going to help YOU by rolling out a "guillotine"?? In the end you're STILL going to have to get a job and you're still going to be exactly where you are now.

Another nobody acting like your doing something so you don't have to do real work.

Michael: Rather ignorant of history and facts as your post so aptly proves. Roll out the Guillotines? Do you have any idea of the bloodbath that ensued? I know you aren't aware of who and how many were butchered by the mob, your ignorant post indicates that. You are also ignorant of Napoleon, how, after the monarchy was destroyed, he came in and crowned himself Emperor, thereby becoming a monarch with absolute power.

Four Points: An excellent post, unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears. The one's who should listen are incapable of cogent thought. They are the useful idiots and a better definition has never been created to describe the braindead minions who continue to follow Obama and his ilk.

My story above is not "sad" and I am not looking for pity or for you to feel my pain, or for sympathy. I'm explaining why think these whining bunch of idiots causing property damage with their illegal squatting, who are asking for unearned handouts, and the destruction of the capitalist system that makes it possible for people who want to apply themselves to flourish do not represent me, and why I am opposed to their little collectivist tantrum. Life's tough, get a helmet...

JPM: Great post!! That is what America is truly about!! The right to pursue happiness!! I wish half of the people in this country had your work ethic!!

Never have I witnessed a bigger collection of morons. It seems the prevailing rant among the many rants these clowns are shouting is "stop corporate greed", or variations thereof. I'll bet there's not one of them that can articulate exactly what corporate greed is, and if they could, how one goes about stopping it.

Do they expect some type of restrictions on how much corporations would be allowed to earn? If something like that ever came to pass it would be a monumental jobs killer, but that isn't really the goal of those that are lurking in the shadows and pulling the strings of these idiots. Their goal is much more sinister.

Close the fed 1.68

You're the one from another thread that thought Abraham Lincoln was assassinated because he opposed the Federal Reserve act, something that wasn't enacted until 48 years after his death, and you question my intellect?

JPM77 -Post # 1.76

your sob sorry is just a sob sorry many Gi's as I came back and worked our way everyday on a job, classes everyday, sleeping in our cars not with mommy and daddy still accomplished everything you have and more and still maintained our Christian morals you are nothing but a ego-centric free loader whining and braying as a jackass of you having to do some work whooooowhooooo you did nothing but get a free ride from what I have read, because you had to work you think you are special or this is something extraordinary?---give us all a break.

I am not impressed your a miserly neurotic that thinks something inordinate you accomplished and again why is your son not in uniform as mine and many others right now? Where were you during the Wars? Hiding out with Cheney Get lost you maintain this weak self pitying sense of false self worth I wouldn't have your lame puffed up self with any of us you're more trouble than your worth - many better men were left behind and now we have to deal with this arm chair carnival barkers and your son - Lord help us.......and to think of the good men left behind.."isn't it a pity"...yes ...indeed it is..........

JPM77 -

Read post # 1.46 and see how insignificant your false sense of self-worh is a foundation of hot air expelled through one of your orifices and not your drooling mouth of self-pity and self promotion.

Tell your sad story of struggle to my first cousin with two Silver Stars a missing left lower leg and other maladies of how hard you had it - we are all so touched almost to tears or is it laughter? I think the latter certainly not the former. Where is your sense of gratitude? We all that make it had a hand up - my first job out of the university was at one of the top law firms in Los Angeles on the top floor in Century city on The Avenue of The Stars because of who I knew offered my a hand up. I have returned the gesture and will my whole life because of one person a better man than you.

Dear Persevere:

BRAVO! you said it very clearly, these arm chair patriots like JPM77 blame all the problems in America on those "OTHER" Americans are not worth your time or mine. These selfish individuals are always the first in line when they need help but God forbid if somone else needs a hand because their standing there calling those people "Freeloaders"......

We should get back to the story at hand and look at what's really going on. It’s always easier for the cops and politicians to arrest peaceful protesters than it is to arrest the crooks that pulled off the biggest theft in human history. It sure looks like the cops and politicians are being paid off by those same crooks. So instead of looking out for the peoples interests, creating jobs and doing what they were elected to do, GOP politicians across the country are attacking woman’s rights, child labor laws, busting unions and destroying social programs. What these greedy politicians are not hearing is what the people in the street are saying…. “Where’s the Justice”? I would hate to see a replay of the French revolution here in America but if the people in charge of the justice system in this country do nothing to force the return of the wealth that has been stolen from the American people over the past thirty years…….who knows what might happen.

@ wet willy;

Close the fed 1.68: You're the one from another thread that thought Abraham Lincoln was assassinated because he opposed the Federal Reserve act, something that wasn't enacted until 48 years after his death, and you question my intellect?

_______________________________________________________

Willy you question your own intelligence by discussing poop on the side walks.

Regarding your uninformed comment about Lincoln; I never said he was assassinated for his fight with the "Fed". (You did apparently). But your other ignorant comment that he did NOT confront what we now know of the "Fed" is equally uninformed. Please read some history about the "Fed".

Fights with what we know as the "Fed" go back to Lincoln, Jackson, and Thomas Jefferson. Way before the Fed Act of 1913!

Lincoln issued his own currency legally that came to be know as "Green Backs", which the Fed destroyed after his death.

So again, you would serve yourself better by reading a little history rather than fling feces.

so stop the greedy. that used to be done via shame and did not need any law. Why is greed now acceptable and the moral high ground?

All these demonstrations are nothing more than the poor taking out their frustrations on the rich and blaming them for their own shortcommings. It's pure resentment and sour grapes. The truley misinformed are those who actually believe that government or a union is going to take care of them. There will always be rich and poor people, always has been and always will be, just look around. Destroy the American dream of building a successful life and the poor will only be worse off than they ever have been. Who will hire them? The government? Who will pay the taxes? Unfortunately there will always be greedy people, but a greedy government is much worse. Consider the average living standars in third world socialistic countries. Demonstrating against Wall Street is like shooting yourself in the foot because you're envious at someone else.

Why don't they protest the politicians? Why blame the bankers? The politicians told them how much it would take to buy them, and they obliged. Now march to Washington with a list of demands, or go home geez.

During the Frech Revolution, the slogan was "Let them eat cake". I belive Wall St. and Multi-National Corporate Conglomerates slogan is "Let them drink Champagne". Can we roll out the guillotines, already?

Except it wasn't. That was a Rousseau quote wrongly attributed to Antoinette decades after the revolution. Only the ignorant propogate this myth. The French revolution was a tumultuous and bloody period that culminated in the killing of the revolutions' founders. (the Jacobins) I don't think we want to emulate that in America.

As Drederick Tatum said to Homer Simpson, "Learn your french history!"

"ego-centric free loader whining and braying as a jack@$#"

Persevere,

I have no guilt, nor regret. I am grateful to the people who have voluntarily helped me along the way, and I give back to society willingly.

I volunteer a couple hours of my time on a weekly basis to go in and teach science projects to kids in my city who are in schools without enough money for a proper science curriculum. I donate both blood and money to the Red Cross because I've got B- blood type that's difficult for them to come by. I make charitable donations to the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, the Dana Farber Jimmy Fund, and the Fisher House Foundation for our troops. I am not rich by any sense of the imagination though I am working to become so, but I am comfortable enough that I can make these donations now too... because of the work I put in to get to this point, which again is not a sad story regardless of whatever you want to cry about.

So, my conscious is clear. I work hard, I work to overcome the difficulties life's vagaries place before me, I do not whine about it, and I am satisfied with what I have accomplished thus far, with the ambition to continue to produce for both myself and my family and to contribute to society as well in the future.

You on the other hand have offered nothing but ad hominem, snide, small minded, ignorant, petty, infantile hysterics about me. You attack me personally instead of dealing with the principles and values and the ideas that I put forth. Well, go ahead, continue all you want. I don't think it makes me look bad and I think most people will see that reflects more on your lack of value than me.

Keep trying to tear me down all you want, I have nothing to be ashamed of.

And when 2012 rolls around and you realize that more people in this nation have my values and vote on them than your lack thereof, enjoy the election results.

I am so proud of every person in every city around the world that is joining this movement. I didn't think we had it in us anymore. Power to the People. If somebod wants to help me to one of these rallies and hold me up I'd be happy to join em.

I like the sign, you created this mess, we're not paying for it.

Come election day i will not give my vote to one SOB already in office.They all need to be sent home or beheaded. The later would work just fine.

This is, from my understanding, a return to the basic principles that this country was founded on "by the people, of the people, for the people". This is a contest of wills between the PEOPLE and the GREEDY WALL STREET PLAYERS. This is about the PEOPLE of the REPUBLIC verses ARISTOCRACY. Many want to call it class warfare and maybe it is but the people are speaking up now. In the 1960's and 1970's the government silenced the people with brute military force. The government even infiltrated some groups and their agents incited rioting just so they could use it as an excuse to use even more force. People around the world rise up against the same principles and America supports them (both our public and our government). Now in AMERICA they are being arrested for their willingness to speak out against the greedy wall street and the politicians who empower them. Eventually if the movement for freedom continues, the government will most likely resort to tougher measure to silence the people.

And as for austerity, this is a good idea if implemented from the top finacial class level down. Do not take away from the poor and needy first but rather let the 1% - 2% of the wealthiest make the majority of the sacrifices and then let it trickle down, not up. Leave the programs that support and help the lower class and seniors in place, adjust the middle class, and abolish all benefits and tax breaks for the upper class. Lets not do like other countries have done and abolish the assistance for the one's who need it, lower and middle, and increase for the wealthy.

This is my impression of what this movement is about in this country.

Well, it is certainly obvious that the liberals have taken charge of this site. Yesterday when I started posting, there were very few collapsed comments. Today almost every conservative comment has been collapsed

That generally happens only when people say stupid or hateful things, DeeDee. Are your comments collapsed often?

I would pit my intelligence against yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

For the record, I'm 42 and it took a crapload of pride swallowing to get help from the government, not a lazy person who is suckling the teat of society. I will let you know why I am so irate. I am the person who manufactured your businesses gold plated turd. I am there in the factory sweating, because you only air condition the offices. I am the one there on Saturdays working overtime (while you're at the country club playing golf with your buddies), because you are too cheap to hire more help. I am the one who hasn't had a raise in 4 years, although the company stock has tripled over 8 straight years. You would rather pay stockholders handsomely than do right for your workers. Now when times are tough, I'm the one who is laidoff/ fired while the company is still making a profit.

Want a fair tax system? Charge corporations by how well they pay their workers.

Glenn Davis: "I am so proud of every person in every city around the world that is joining this movement."

Are you proud of the American Nazi Party that has officially endorsed Occupy Wall Street now and joined in?

JPM, come on , that sucks and nobody supports such a thing.

Coats

how about a CEO tax, the greater the difference between what the top management makes and what the guys in the factory make should be taxed at a rate that increases

He said he was proud of "every person".

There are multiple and multiplying anti-semitic comments being recorded at the various Occupy protests.

AdBusters the Canadian anti-capitalist magazine that founded the Occupy Wall Street movement engaged in anti-Semitism in 2004 running articles designed for "Drawing attention to the Jewishness of the neocons" to incite hatred against them (And I am not a neocon nor did I support a lot of what they stood for).

And now the Nazi party finds they have lots of common ground with OWS, that they seem to fit right in.

A Pattern of consistent anti-semitism is hard to deny.

Even some of the liberal establishment I think is starting to get worried about it:
Protests and Power

Should liberals support Occupy Wall Street?

...the volume of interviews, speeches, and online declarations associated with the protests does make it possible to arrive at some broad generalizations about what Occupy Wall Street stands for. And these, in turn, suggest a few reasons for liberals to be nervous about the movement.

The New Republic is a reliably left wing media source... and it looks like even they are starting to get concerned about the monster the far left has created.

Greed is Good...

JPM - is your life that bad that you need to bring Nazi scheiss to this ?

It's a recent news event, relevant to the conversation. And AdBusters are the Founders, they ran the initial advertisements to start it that Anonymous jumped into later.

There has been a disturbing amount of anti-semitic commentary out of the Occupy protests, and the American Nazi party has in fact endorsed them and said they find common cause with the movement - ignoring that kind of hateful bigotry will only lead to more.

I'm not calling all OWS protestors anti-semites, nor am I saying the Nazi party represents them, but this is not a pattern I think people should just cover their eyes to and ignore. It's dangerous, and it's real.

Really? I have been watching the name calling from both left and right as unbecoming as it is. This is a new one.

From Wiki -

In October 2011 a Reuters story titled "Soros: not a funder of Wall Street protests" was published after several commentators pointed out errors in an earlier Reuters story headlined "Who's behind the Wall St. protests?"with a lede stating that the Occupy Wall Street movement "may have benefited indirectly from the largesse of one of the world's richest men [Soros]". Reuters' follow-up article also reported a Soros spokesperson and Adbusters' co-founder Kalle Lasn both saying that Adbusters – which was the catalyst for the first Occupy Wall Street protests – had never received any contributions from Soros, contrary to Reuters' earlier story which reported that "indirect financial links" existed between the two as late as 2010.

However, despite what the Soros spokesperson and Adbusters Kalle Lasn state, there ARE "indirect financial links" between George Soros and Adbusters.

The first, Soros is contributes heavily to the Tides Foundation. The Tides Foundation provided grants to Adbusters totalling 185K. Second, Adbusters has received funding in excess of 200K from Foundation for Deep Ecology, and 5K from Funding Exchange, both of which also funds Center for Media & Democracy. The Center for Media & Democracy also receives funding from the Open Society Institute. Guess who is a donor and chairperson for Open Society Institute? Yep, you guessed it, good old George Soros.

And those connections only took me 5 minutes to find.

Wow Deedee.

Check out the Koch Brothers and their connection to Americans for Prosperity and ALEX. ALEX is a group that puts out right wing cookie cutter legislative documents to give to Right wing legislators. The documents are ready made to take away minimum wage,collective bargaining,OSHA,Clean Water,Clean AIR, Child labor laws,EPA,FAA,CDC,FDA,etc. My question is to the Right. If you take all that away from the middle class aren't you just trying to create a environment that allows a company to have slaves for workers and no responsibility for the damage to the land water and sea. And no responsibility for poisoning the population and causing massive birth defects? If not that how do they explain wanting to make all of it very possible by getting rid of nationally all of the public's protection from corporate greed.

Clue less tea party idiots do not understand how our economy works. Corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars and are not hiring because there is no demand for their products. Our economy is based on consumer demand; when consumers have no jobs and no confidence in having a job tomorrow, they stop buying. Giving more tax cuts to the rich only makes it worse, taking more money out of circulation.

The bottom line is that the middle class, the consumers are the true job creators. It is their demand for goods and services that creates jobs.

There has been a class war in this country for 30 years, shifting wealth from the middle class to the rich, the greatest redistribution of wealth in the history of this nation ... and it has destroyed our economy. Continuing in this direction will leave most Americans as wage slaves and the wealthy wondering why they can't sell their products ... because they have eaten the golden goose and there are no more eggs.

'Let them eat cake' were the last words of the french aristocracy. A similar attitude by the 1% can only lead to the same result. The wealthy need to understand that their short term greed will only lead to their own demise, as their fortunes dwindle in a world wide depression, and they are not safe to spend what little money they will have left.

I went back and re-read Steve's post. I do not see where he called you, personally, an idiot. He used your own words "clueless" in regards to the tea party idiots though. oh wait.....

Spider...The Occupy movement went national and now global. They are not going away and you better get used to it. People like you think the protesters are out to get your few nickles and dimes...no one wants them. You do not have money or the brain power to stop the OWS, the PEOPLE are revolting and this is only the beginning. We will get our country back, one way or another.

Yes, there has been a shift in wealth, as a large segment of society expects to live on handouts,

Oh really? you think these people on "handouts" purposely quit their jobs so they can live on foodstamps? How many people like that do you know?

The people I know have been looking for jobs for months and have sent hundreds of resumes but still no jobs. Companies are actively discriminating against people who have no jobs. These people are not lazy, they are desperate and have no hope.

Turn off the faux news and look around you. 46 million people are on foodstamps, the real unemployment rate is 16% and kids are buried in debt even before they start their professional lives. All this while the top tier pays less taxes than everyone else.

Get a clue before its too late. This is how revolutions start.

spider, there are people who work very hard and pay taxes turning out to these events. They are mostly not scumbags, freaks, or people looking for handouts. Look at the pictures, they're normal, concerned, angry people. You can excrete your condascending BS on these forums, but until you actually know who you're talking about, your rants are fodder for laughter.

spider: I did not call you an idiot; you assumed the title.

If you do not think consumer demand drives our economy, then you do not understand how our economy works. I have worked for a living all my life; I am not asking for a handout.

My company is not hiring due to lack of demand for goods and services. Our production is based on our sales forecast. When we expect to sell more, we produce more and hire more people to help build, sell and service more product. When we expect sales to be flat, we don't hire people, regardless of how much cash we have in the bank.

Capitalism is not about tax cuts; it is about driving production based on consumer demand. Our economy is a complex interaction of many factors; however, the most critical is consumer demand. Companies can not afford to hire people if there is not new demand for more products or services.

It is really quite simple. We can grow the pie so there is more for everyone. Or we can fight over which piece of the pie you want, with an ever diminishing pie. Tea party policy shrinks the pie, leaving less for everyone.

No one is looking for a handout; everyone just wants a job. Most of these unemployed people you have no respect for were working 4 years ago. They just want to go back to work, so they can buy decent things for their families. That consumer demand then drives more sales, more product and more jobs. !00% of American citizens then enjoy greater prosperity, short and long term.

The consumers are the job creators in this country. The wealthy are only job creators in a feudal society, where they hide behind their walls and most people live in poverty and pestilence. Which vision of America do you want your children growing up in?

Spider if everyone in this country wanted to start their own business, we would have no workers. So you're a business owner or a lazy person looking for a handout? Frankly I don't like it when people blame "Wall Street" as though it's some George Orwell character. Let's post the salaries and bonus's of all the companies money earners that are traded on Wall Street. It's not the small business owner that's making all the money, it's the corporate CEO's that are, and most are not majority share holders!

hmm funny a few months ago, Obama was being blamed for unemployment ... now that the unemployed are pointing at corporations who lay off people and overwork their remaining employees, the unemployed are being blamed for their own situation?

I am lucky to have a job and have been continuously employed for 42 years, worked hard and did find that paid off (helped me pay off student loans, buy and pay for a house, help my family, and build a comfortable retirement fund). But over the past decade I've watched my international corporation and their competitors lay off an unbelievable #s of talented, hard working american workers, while they made ill conceived merger and acquisition and offshoring decisions that left the company and its pipeline worse off. As a result, the top earners still earned big bonuses and expanded the # of phony high level positions to retain their cronies while their remaining US workers are overworked to the breaking point trying to clean up the mess our leadership created just because we fear that if we don't, we'll be in the next round to lose our jobs. And still they pass on higher costs to their customers while whining and spending large amt of corporate $s lobbying US and other governments for more breaks. Some tax breaks and state $s were given because they promised jobs that they then never delivered on. I will go on record saying that I absolutely support letting talented, risk takers who earned their money by honest hard work while treating all of their employees decently and creating jobs deserve what they earned. But those are not the types of people running corporations in america and the world today. They exploited the US system and made tons of money and they don't have the humility and decency to pay to maintain the system that created their wealth. And now the greedy creeps are still not satisfied and they're going after social security and medicare at just the time US system has been giving them breaks along and they Thieves are still thieves, exploiters are still exploiters, entitlements are still entitlements even when they're being called something different by those the corporate hogs creeps been paying off to call themselves something different (like calling corporations "job creators" when they haven't been creating any except at the top; like making it sound like it's ok to take tax dollars and state funds and not deliver on your promises but if you pay into social security and medicare for decades you;re not entitled to get something back). As an employed, hard working american, I support the viewpoints of Occupy Wall Street, Warren Buffet, those seeing similarities to periods leading to the French and Russian revolutions and hope those being warned wake up and do the right thing before its too late.

The focus should be to get money out of politics - the politicians are bought and paid for, they pass the laws favorable to their contributors, create loopholes for their contributors (big business) so they can evade taxes.

Citizens United MUST be overturned - regulations for financial institutions MUST be reinstated. And the people that profited from this economic debacle MUST go to jail.

Where is my solyndra money??? Why are tax payers bailing out unions??? Is holder and company going to go to prison for ILLEGAL DEALING OF FIREARMS??? Why is the CONSTITUTION NOT BEING UPHELD AND STATES BEING SUED??? Where is MY hope and change???

Free speech isn't Marxist, it's American/USA citizen's right. If you don't like it, move to a country where there is not freedom of speech.

I'll post this link again. This video is shot inside the bank. You can hear and see what is going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2vtXJ0k7AA

Not one of thes kids ever asks a teller to close their account. Not one of the bank personnel ever addresses these kids directly.

These kids are INSIDE A BANK. They are, basically, holding the bank personnel hostage, standing in a ring around the teller counter. There's a guy in a suit, with a big yellow bag, who appears to be a 99er walking around, BEHIND THE COUNTER, filming the demonstration (or possibly the security systems?), of the BANK.

The fact that there have been hundreds of arrests of 99ers is all over the news. These kids are 99ers. The 99ers have beaten police officers. These kids are 99ers.

AND THEY ARE DEMONSTRATING INSIDE A BANK!!!

Do you understand what I am saying?

Robbing a bank is a federal offense. There are people in this bank filming the inside of this facility. Do you seriously think that they are going to let them just WALK out of the bank?

Really?

Banks get bailedout one word now, still my student loans go from 3 to 7 percent go figure..

You do know they are called "Liberal Arts" because they actually expand knowledge through thinking and learning of philosophies and sciences? Ever heard of "The Conservative Arts"?

And for those who are asking why these people don't get a job, where are they supposed to get them? Government isn't creating them, Businesses aren't creating them, so then who? The poor, who have no money? Isn't it them that caused the housing bubble, to begin with?

WOW, remember the GOP motto: make sure that Obama only gets one and that nothing gets done !!!

I pray everyday for the future of my kids that that is exactly what happens.

Eddie, take your meds before you try posting.

.

Why would the protesters bother to picket the white house? government is just a higher branch of employees for wall street. It'd be like punching the boxboy because you don't like the supermarket.

Obama and all the Democrats will be held responsible for every injury, and all property damage because "they" are in charge, and theses are their goons.

Eddie...Yes you CAN look at Obama's contributors. Now try to find the names of GOP candidates contributors...you can't....because they are too ashamed of themselves that they must hide those names....get real

eddi

Obama has been fighting against releasing the names of his contributors.

Eddie when was the last time you voted for a Democrat for President? That's what I thought! Nuff said about you post.

This is bigger than Democrat or Republican. Stop trying to make it one or the other. This is about basic human rights to be able to work, make a decent wage, and afford a home, health care, etc.

As soon as the first leftist pos kills someone, this @!$%# is over.

James,

what happens if the first person to kill someone is a right wing or a cop?

"Tin soldiers and [right wing] coming --
we're finally on our own.
This [fall] I hear the drumming...."

VTbabyboomer

"Tin soldiers and [right wing] coming --
we're finally on our own.

You've always been on your own, and still are.

Holy_Cow,

Were you singling me out, or is there some point to you post?

Just curious....

VTbabyboomer, I'd say Holy_Cow was singling you out.

Really, it's a great song: Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming, we're finally on our own; this summer I hear the drumming, four dead in Ohio.

Gives me chills every time I hear it. Want to be friends?

These protests are way past Kent State, way past the 60s. Bad sh*t is going to start happening.

@kountryking

Has the thought occurred to you that if our govt had fulfilled its obligation to "promote the general welfare" that there would be no OWS protests right now? Furthermore, while all you teabaggers or teabaggers-in-disguise whine about communism or socialism, you would do well to go back and reread the Constitution. What do you suppose the term "promote the common welfare" means? I suggest that many of the TB's who love to drape themselves in the flag and scream about freedom and liberty don't really care about America or liberty...just THEIR America snd THEIR freedom. Pass the koolaid. You've had enough

Well, since we're singing protests songs from the sixties:

John Lennon's Revolution comes to mind. Especially the part:

You say you'll change the constitution

Well you know

We all want to change your head

You tell me its the institution

Well you know

You better free your mind instead

But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao

You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

http://lyrics.info

It's very disturbing how many people on these comment pages have been subtly and sometimes openly advocating violent revolution. I wonder if the same people realize that they themselves might lose their own property and/or lives if civil war broke out? True revolution is always driven by a mindless, power hungry mob that doesn't hesitate to act indiscriminately; such were the French and Russian Revolutions (nothing like the American War for Independence which has been incorrectly labeled a revolution).

The less-than-bright lights pushing for revolution haven't a clue. They are Lenin's useful idiots. They are the pawns, the mindless mouthpieces who lack the capacity to think for themselves or look beyond the moment. They are incapable of understanding consequences of actions since they have never been held accountable or responsible for anything, rather, they have been pampered and spoiled. It was the disenfranchised nobles who pushed for revolution in Russia. The second and third sons who would not inherit the estates.

little batch of radical revolutionaries are worse because they think that after the 'revolution' they will be rewarded for their loyalty, never being students of history they don't realize that they will be the first to be shot.

Steve: no one here is advocating violent revolution.

People are pointing to lessons from history. When Cantor says 'let them eat cake' while Cain says that if you are poor and unemployed it is your fault, they recreate the situations which led to chaos.

People are frustrated; they want to work. The system in the US is not working. Politicians are in grid lock, and tearing down the infrastructure that would allow us to compete on the global stage.

My company can go to India to open a new office, and not need to worry about paying for employee's health care. Lot's of young people educated on the latest technology, thanks to their government. Can't find that in this country.

Companies need to mitigate risk. With complete political grid lock here, I can mitigate the risk of not knowing what the government will do by taking my business where there is greater certainty. None of this has anything to do with taxes.

Keep in mind that the arab spring was about high unemployment for long periods of time. As we come to the same situation in this country, why would you expect things to turn out differently? This outrage is a wake-up call. Let's address these issues now, while we can do so in a civilized manner.

Steve-564412: Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, etc would give you a hell of an argument there.

Mac: I would have to disagree with you there. The situation then and the situation now are not comparable. There is no king and there is not a move for independent statehood. There is a need, a serious need, for reforms. The Constitution already exists, it should be allowed to work rather than violent rebellion that would ultimately overthrow the Constitution. Only those people seeking to overthrow one system so that they may gain political power and replace the system with one where they would be the rulers are advocating violent revolution.

If you think revolution is the answer, perhaps you should talk to people who have lived through violent revolution. Generally the 'new' system is far more repressive than the old system.

mygirl1: I respectfully disagree with you. While I do not advocate violence, I support the protestors. Our constitution does not condone or allow Oligarchy or Plutocracy. If we don't have one or the other in this country we are within a "hairs breath" of so having. Nor, as you say, do we have a "King" of person. We have a much more insidious one though, in the form of "moneyed power". A government of representative democracy, dependent upon "honest and innovative" capitalism cannot endure by ceding Its functions and presentments of perversion to such, then have them bestowed upon, and adhered to by the people it purports to serve. These crippling convolutions need to be exposed, both to all the people, as well as to those who perpetrate the criminality. Regards

Addendum: I am dyslexic. Causes me to get ahead of myself sometimes. In my 6th line of the above post it should have read in part: "capitalism cannot endure by ceding its functions and presentments to perversion of such, etc,etc. Sincerely sorry about that.

Where is MY shovel ready job??? Why are unions paying for something they despise when they already have jobs and bailouts??? How can you cut military spending without losing jobs in the private sector??? The military is not totally self sufficient when you cut one you cut many. Why cannot you people not figure this out??? Maybe if you take the time to look at what is really going on you will find out why NO MEMBER OF CONGRESS WILL EVER BRING UP THE ISSUE OF TERM LIMITS.

It's bigger than any one political view. It's basic human rights. Please stop calling people names they are not.

And what exactly are basic human rights hmmmmm?

I would be willing to bet that if you asked 100 different people to write down 20 of them, you would get a lot more than 20 "rights". There are plenty of individuals out there who think all kinds of things should be considered a "right" and yet they are not. There are even more who think something should be a right, but couldn't give you an intelligent reason why.

It's real easy to throw around the phrase "human rights". It's a lot harder to intelligently define it and to say why it should be a right.

Inalienable rights endowed by the Creator, life, libery and the pursuit of happiness. Nowhere does it state that education, healthcare, welfare are 'rights' in the context in which many would define 'rights.' The essential and original construct was created to remove the government from telling people who, what and how they could conduct business, worship, or go about the daily process of living. There had to be legislation that went through both houses and was signed by the executive branch before it became law.

Note how all of that has changed. Now the final recourse for unconstitutional laws is the Supreme Court. We have presidents who ignore congress and issue executive mandates that become law. We have bureaus who issue regulations that become law. We have a tax code that is used as a punitive weapon against those whom the government deems unacceptable and we have the 'Patriot Act' which, hands down, is the most draconian and unconstitutional bit of legislation ever crafted in a so-called free society.

Had Obama done nothing else but abolish or work to abolish the Unpatriot Act, I would have stood behind him. Tragically, he not only reinstated it, but added to it. Not one person should rest comfortably or secure with that bit of excrement in place.

basic human rights - so what if 20 people would give 20 different answers !!??

at least we will not hear any of the canned wedge issue answers that are what we call politics today

I'll post this link again since the last thread was collapsed. This video is shot inside the bank. You can hear and see what is going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2vtXJ0k7AA

Not one of thes kids ever asks a teller to close their account. Not one of the bank personnel ever addresses these kids directly.

These kids are INSIDE A BANK. They are, basically, holding the bank personnel hostage, standing in a ring around the teller counter. There's a guy in a suit, with a big yellow bag, who appears to be a 99er walking around, BEHIND THE COUNTER, filming the demonstration (or possibly the security systems?), of the BANK.

The fact that there have been hundreds of arrests of 99ers is all over the news. These kids are 99ers. The 99ers have beaten police officers. These kids are 99ers.

AND THEY ARE DEMONSTRATING INSIDE A BANK!!!

Do you understand what I am saying?

Robbing a bank is a federal offense. There are people in this bank filming the inside of this facility. Do you seriously think that they are going to let them just WALK out of the bank?

Really?

Geowil

James,

what happens if the first person to kill someone is a right wing or a cop?

They will still find a way to blame it on the left.

OK DeeDee, I watched the video. I see nothing wrong here. I see no weapons, I see no threat of violence against anyone, I see no one being tortured or harmed. All I see are people voicing their opinions. I did not even see where the doors were blocked off or locked by the students. In fact all I saw was student conducting themselves in a civil manner to be heard. I am sure that many of the bank employees agreed with them but were too afraid to speak out due to fear of the oppressive CEO's terminating their employment. So you can post that video all over the web because all it does is show how civil and peaceful these students have been. It even helps to reinforce the mindset that the wealthy and the politicians will stop at nothing to take even a small group of people speaking to others and turning it into some act of terror which it clearly is not.

lamdaguy -

Many of these students had backpacks and/or were bundled in heavy winter coats. Several of these same students were filming the inside of the bank.

Whether peaceful or not, you cannot enter private property and stage a protest. If you do you are subject to arrest for trespass. And you absolutely cannot go into a bank and film , especially behind the counter, where the student had no right to be in the first place, as you then become a security risk.

Also, did you not notice that, as usual, the media lied about what happened? All of these news stations are stating that they were arrested when they tried to close out their accounts. Not one of those kids tried to close out an account, they were conducting a demonstration/protest on private property which is AGAINST THE LAW.

And it was in a BANK!

I agree that they should not have protested inside the bank without permission and it was unlawful. My point was that they did not harm, threaten or hold anyone against their will. As for filming in a bank, the bank is a public place and open to the public for use. I see no reason why they cannot film in the bank, especially if they are customers of citibank. It would be no different than filming in a park or concert or even inside a mall. I never said what they did was legal, just that what they did was peaceful and non threatning to anyone. At no time did it appear to me that they were a security threat.

I guarantee you it isn't going away.

"liberal media" What a joke that is.

You do realize that all of the media conglomerates are owned by CONSERVATIVES?!

No, obviously you didn't know that.

Rich is right - this will not go away.

As soon as if gets cold, it's no l,onger a party.

Marcus....lets see where you go in 6 months...lol

willing.sniper

Are you getting your "facts" from FOX news? Who asked 35 million Americans what they think of this movement? It does sound like a lot, but it is about 10% of the population. What does the other 90% think?

What EXACTLY has president Obama done to bring on this economic mess? I'm tired of hearing abaout how terrible he is with no evidence that he brought the ecomony to a standstill. Good O'le Boy Bush was in charge for 8 years when this economic crash occurred. Bush has lots of rich cronies who are now richer. THINK

54 Percent Of Americans Have Favorable Views Of Protesters

Time Poll Finds That 54 Percent Of Public Has "Very Favorable" Or "Somewhat Favorable" Views Of Protesters. An October 9-10 poll published by Time magazine shows that 25 percent of those polled have a "very favorable" view and 29 percent had "somewhat favorable views" of the protesters "gathering on Wall Street in New York City and some other cities." A post about the poll on Time's blog Swampland stated:

A closer look at the poll's cross-tabs provides a fuller picture of the movement's diverse support. Occupy Wall Street enjoys majority backing among men (57%) and women (51%), young (60% of respondents 18 to 34) and old (51%). Self-identified Democrats, unsurprisingly, comprise the left-leaning movement's largest bloc, with 66% professing support. But more than half of independents (55%) harbor favorable views of the protesters, as do a third of Republicans.

As the movement has snowballed, it has become -- as the Tea Party did -- the subject of sneers from opponents bent on undermining its objectives and minimizing its influence.

Like the Tea Party, it benefits in its incipient stages by venting a broad array of common frustrations. Many of these are vague enough that even Republicans can co-sign them.

Of the respondents in TIME's poll familiar with the protests, 86% -- including 77% of Republicans -- agree with the movement's contention that Wall Street and its proxies in Washington exert too much influence over the political process. More than 70%, and 65% of Republicans, think the financial chieftains responsible for dragging the U.S. economy to the brink of implosion in the fall of 2008 should be prosecuted.

Other questions reveal a sharper split along partisan lines but nonetheless reveal the strength of economic populism. Nearly 80% of respondents (96% of Democrats and 56% of Republicans) think the class chasm between rich and poor has grown too large, and 68%, including 40% of Republicans, say the affluent should pay more taxes.

The sooner we stop viewing everything through a lens of conservative/liberal (as the politicians have trained us to do), the sooner we can catch them with their hands in the cookie jar collectively *#$!ing everybody over.

In my city they got a permit to demonstrate until the end of the year. If things aren't better by then, I am sure they will get another one for the next year too.

to all posters on news vine. How do you think all the revolutions and civil wars got started. All you need now is a leader and a flash point, which some in the government will unwitting supply. This happens again and again in history and governments never see it coming. They always think it can't happen here, but even some of the most solid governments in the past have been overthrown. The french and the american revolutions were horribly disorganized at the start and the British and the French didn't take it seriously, and look what happened. Please don't think it can't happen again here because it can. When ever governments stops responding to the people it governs it runs the risk of rebellion and civil war or revolution.

In my city they got a permit to demonstrate until the end of the year. If things aren't better by then, I am sure they will get another one for the next year too.

They can protest until Jesus discos in Time Square, but no one has presented a coherent statement, strategy or goal. At this point its a camp-out of the disenfranchised. Nothing more.

When will you guys ever learn that polls are fixed?

From Media Research Center -

MRC found that in the first eleven days of October, ABC, CBS and NBC broadcast 33 stories or interview segments on the protesters, compared to just 13 stories on the tea party for all of 2009.

Moreoever, MRC found that the networks OWS stories were mostly sympathetic, with protesters and their supporters featured in soundbites 87 percent of the time, compared to 8 percent for critics and 8 percent for neutral sources.

And here's how they manipulate the numbers:

Q8. ON ANOTHER ISSUE, IS YOUR OPINION OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE TEA PARTY TO HAVE AN OPINION?

VERY FAVORABLE 8%

SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 19%

SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 9%

VERY UNFAVORABLE 24%

DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 39%

NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%

That's the question posed regarding the Tea Party, absolutely no detail given, just what is your opinion.

Now, here's the question regarding the OWS.

Q11. IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, A GROUP OF PROTESTORS HAS BEEN GATHERING ON WALL STREET IN NEW YORK CITY AND SOME OTHER CITIES TO PROTEST POLICIES WHICH THEY SAY FAVOR THE RICH, THE GOVERNMENT’S BANK BAILOUT, AND THE INFLUENCE OF MONEY IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM. IS YOUR OPINION OF THESE PROTESTS VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE PROTESTS TO HAVE AN OPINION?

VERY FAVORABLE 25%

SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE 29%

SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE 10%

VERY UNFAVORABLE 13%

DON’T KNOW ENOUGH 23%

NO ANSWER/DON’T KNOW 1%

Please note that the question in this case gives a whole list of what the OWS is supposed to be about - though it doesn't mention the students who demand that their student loans be forgiven.

That, folks, is how the polls are manipulated. It is all about how you frame the question. And believe me, these people have done a multitude of studies on how to frame the question to get the response you want to get.

"When will you guys ever learn that polls are fixed?"

When will you learn that normal people don't think like you do, DeeDee? The polls are accurate, it's you that's wrong.

Only people of very limited intelligence wouldn't realize that the way the questions were presented was a deliberate effort to slant the poll results :)

So, please, please, please, tell me how you think that is an accurate poll? Had the poll read -

1. IS YOUR OPINION OF THE OCCUPY WALL STREET MOVEMENT VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE OWS TO HAVE AN OPINION?

2. IS YOUR OPINION OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT VERY FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT FAVORABLE, SOMEWHAT UNFAVORABLE, VERY UNFAVORABLE, OR DON’T YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE TEA PARTY TO HAVE AN OPINION?

THAT would be a fair poll.

In fact this has been happening in many areas. The Occupiers are well aware of that issue.

The OWS People are cleaning up after themselves, I watched it and watched it on the boob tube. The people on these vines and other thread boards and MSM like to report this movement as if it were Woodstock, hippies rolling around in their own human waste, making love on the grass, sidewalk, smoking dope, on welfare, unemployed not looking for work, I am hoping this movement destroys Wall Street, and I am tried of reading if Wall Street is shut down there goes America, GOOD!!!! the Banks ARE NOT loaning us back the money WE gave them to line their $1500.00 suits, and we're broke, jobless, and can not go any lower then that.. except for HUNGRY,and if it comes to that, we can start eating BANKERS for lunch (literally, like African head hunter lunch). I have read that human meat is healthy for the prostate gland (smile/wink). a funny.

so can I

Short translation of what JAMES DOUGLAS MORRISON is trying to say with his posts: "I'm scared to death, I don't wanna change, and I want some else to get them to go away somehow". As for your post about "just shoot them, and it'd all be over". (Definitely a believer in freedom, are ya?) well, you're right. It would indeed stop the protesters. And start the riots that could grow into a global civil war, but what the heck, You must live on the moon, so it wouldn't affect YOU, right? It's been a peaceful protest so far, be happy about that.

O come now, nightwalker, a global civil war???? Get real. In the first place, this bunch of helpless societal losers couldn't organize a paintball game.

Since you want to get bizarre here, let me reply by suggesting that since you all think everybody else owes you something, you could ask one of these countries if you can borrow their army to fight your great civil war. But I bet they'd want you to pay them back for it.....just like those student loans.

It is going global!!! Hell yeah!

Someone, please please explain to me where are the "free checks" come from???

There are unemployed (never employed, i.e. no unemployment checks) recent college grads, Vets, laid off workers (for whom many unemployment is long gone), elderly (whose SSA and Medicare is being cut right and left......

What f*in' checks?

spider-737231: Apparently, they organized a worldwide show of public disdain for banks? Millions of people participating. Not bad, I'd say.

JamesDouglasMorrison: I don't think anyone is asking for "free" money. They just want the rules made even. The tax rate is 35%. Fine, it's 35% for EVERYONE. Corporations want to be citizens. Fine. They then pay taxes and they face prosecution (i.e., the CEOs), just like other citizens.

nightwalker

Short translation of what JAMES DOUGLAS MORRISON is trying to say with his posts: "I'm scared to death

He's not scared idiot, he's making fun of you playtime revolutionaries.

And we just make fun of you Holy_Cow. Boo hoo. Sucks to be you.

Monkey@Keyboard - They don't really want everyone to be on the same playing field, If they did, they'd be cheering Cain's 9-9-9 plan. Everyone would be paying 9% tax instead of the 35% rate that many in the middleclass are paying right now.

You mean 27% for everyone (it's a cumulative tax) for the rich, poor and what used to be in-between.

Thanx to all who understand/support what I wrote. But...

...still I ask: from where are these "free checks" coming???

It is such an incredibly simple question. I'm an MBA+ and *I* know the answer is simple!

You, YOU who think the gov't has nothing to do but send out checks....

Right! To whom?

See, that's the issue -- most of us in the middle and not-quite-middle-class don't know what you're talking about.

And, OMG! (change subject,)

Class warfare?

You, you rich @ssh0les are trying to pit the middle class against the lower class???

I am so incredibly riled up now I should stop.

Shouting and anger does not get a real response.

We want a real response!

After a brief examination of history I've found the most effective movements are the ones most downplayed by people with a vested interest in the status quo. Looks like more hand-waiving from the right. This is what Carl Rove is telling you to do right? Dismiss an argument outright. Disparage the left. Go on forums and do these things.

Pragmatic

After a brief examination of history I've found the most effective movements are the ones most downplayed by people with a vested interest in the status quo

If this was true, the Tea Party, which has been denigrated at every turn would have stopped the bailouts. This is what started the Tea Party movement, opposition to the bailouts, and would have been far on the way to make major changes by your reasoning.

What is really funny is the Tea Party and OWS are basically for the same thing concerning bailouts. But those that have been brainwashed to believe anything a conservative does is evil will never see it.

It seems just because you live with you mother you think no one else might be an orphan or be the head of their household and unable to get another job to keep their families afloat?

Open your eyes and stop thinking everyone is just like you!

Hey Morrison - You sully the name of a fine 1960's era Anarchist...you're clueless

Meanwhile the Corporations and their bought and paid for Politicians can continue to loot the country. Do you have any idea of the billions of our taxpayer money has been given away ,stolen with the stroke of a pen by the connected ? You might like it but I'm sick and tired of schools not having money, people not having health care, workers being laid off while the CEO's bonus never gets cut, etc. Read the book "Free Lunch, How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense" by David Cay Johnson. It's real eye opener, maybe it'll make you mad too.

You left one key principle out of your astute analysis, dan. Every society in every country has two groups of people, the doers and the takers. The doers in this country are often successful and do, in fact own most of the wealth. The takers sit around waiting for someone to "do" for them, and they are never successful. Those marching around annoying the rest of us with their inane protest signs are takers.

willing.sniper

Another Fox news quote?. Are you a "doer" or a "taker"? FOX news sees doers as the wealthy "job creators" and everyone else as takers.

I see the wealthiest 1% as the takers, and the rest of us working our butts off to feed our families, and are grateful we have the jobs we have.

Do you really revere the "doers" like the Koch brothers, who not only inherited their wealth, but who buy off politicians who will do their bidding, like cutting taxes and regulations?

THINK

It's terrible when people are so scared of change they try to hurt their fellow man with words or deeds. If we worked together, this world would never have gotten this bad. Over the years, the people that either got their money from their parents or were lucky with a good stock purchase started making the rules for the rest of us. We sat back and watched it happen, but no more is that the case. I am happy that some people have decide to take a stand for what is right and just.

Well put, your view is in my opinion correct. There is no medicine against greed. World corporations will do anything for their version of "green".

My version of green involves plant life, their version of green is made out of plant life, yet destroys the true color of green.

Funny that the Tea Partiers are MIA during this. Dump them into the harbor baby.

Reba-587597

Funny that the Tea Partiers are MIA during this. Dump them into the harbor baby.

Talk, talk, why not try actually doing something like that, no guts, no glory.

Where were the "occupiers" when the Tea party was protesting, peacefully I might add with 0 arrests, 0 complaints about vandalism, filth etc. Where were the "Occupiers" when the Tea party was protesting against raising taxes, protesting billions of dollars in deficit spending, and a 14 trillion dollar (will be 16 in another year or so) Federal Debt.

You complain about the Big banks, the financial sector screwing the poor and middle class etc.

Does the Financial sector have the ability to raise your taxes and impose new taxes and mandates on you? Do they have the power to take taxpayer money and "invest" it on your behalf such as Solyndra, SunPower, etc.? Why is the federal government taking our money and investing it in some of the very same corporations your railing against subsidizing greed?

You talk about slavery and yet ever entitlement, every benefit, every function the government provides takes money and the more money the Federal government needs to provide all those things you demand places more of a burden on us.

Maybe you should ask what would happen if all of a sudden the Federal Government was no longer getting any income from corporations, capitol gains taxes, Sales taxes etc...

Who would have to make up that difference...

Willing Snooper....Sniper....and hold Obama responsible for the fact that you are retarded. He gets blamed for everything else....lol

Gee, the very same thing could be said of the TPers.

sniper,

At least half of the protesters are out of work adults. Please explain that in your simplistic mapping.

The teabaggers spit on congressmen, made terrorist threats to other congressmen, threw rocks through representatives windows (including Rep. Giffords, no escalation there), cut the gas line to another congressman's family house. So I can see how peaceful they were. These are all documented cases and can be found in news archives if you just look.

uhmmm......talkingtoyou55 ?

In reference to many of those, especially the "made terrorist threats", the verdict is still out, on who EXACTLY sent those. (unless there's been a REAL RECENT update on it I've missed). for all we know..........oh never mind......

Like this citibank story, WAY too many things sound wrong, on both sides. I won't give an opinion til we get the whole story, IF we ever do. I definitely don't think it was as simple as a few people going in quietly to close their accounts.

talkingtoyou55,

They were spitting on black Congressmen.

There's a handful of bad-eggs like that in every political party. The people of which you speak are not the norm for the tea party, of which many members favor a certain black candidate that's been in the news quite a bit lately.

Considering the amount of people and in the amount of countries that protested, I think it was very peaceful. There will always be people trying to take advantage of something like this to do crime. They feel they can hide under the banner of the rest. There are also officers that are not Peace officers. They overstep their boundaries. With all this in consideration....I think it was a great success!!!

Yeah, enough of these people will hurt these banks. Badly.

The banks were never going to give them their money whether they're millionaires or had pennies. They were arrested for criminal trespassing, claims by the bank that they refused to leave. If you watch the video posted on youtube and other news sites you'll see that they dragged a woman back into the bank before arresting her. What does that say for the charges against these people? That woman certainly wasn't refusing to leave the bank and she was doing nothing illegal on the street.

Tom Summers-3638099

I am sure those protestors who went into the banks to close their account had to have lots of help carrying off the cash they took out of their accounts.

lol, probably came out of petty cash.

Holy_Cow,

Yeah, that's kinda the point -- it probably did come out of petty cash.

Our money, we middle-class normal folk are just "petty cash" to banks nowadays.

tom....you wish you had an account...lol

That roll of dimes must have been heavy.

Sniper,

Your repeated comments make me wonder if you are getting your thoughts from an old 8-ball...they certainly appear as rational.

They should do what ever job they can and stop turning down offers.

Willing.Sniper,

OK, I'll bite:

WHAT offers?

Right, why should people in the most prosperous country on Earth expect a living wage or health care ? They should just take whatever crappy Temp job with no benefits that the Corporate masters deign to bestow on the peons.......No, enough of that. You be satisfied with crumbs and no security if you want Sniper, the rest of us feel that we deserve better for our labor and finally we're going to start DEMANDING IT. I will never understand a middle class right -winger, like P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute. When is the last time you heard of a CEO cutting his bonus instead of laying off workers ? Never, way too many of them only make a profit because they come to a new company and ruin peoples lives by laying off employees, cutting benefits, etc. The economy has been booming for the top few percent but stagnant for the vast majority of Americans ever since we fell for the supply-side economics b.s., the downward trickle isn't reaching anyone. Republican economic policies only benefit those at the very top, it's obvious. Now they want to cut Government spending in a recession, contrary to what any sane economist would recommend. Why ? Because the rich will still be rich but they're hoping to make enough middle class people miserable enough to vote Republican again. Read the book, "What's the Matter With Kansas" by Thomas Frank, or "Free Lunch" by David Cay Johnson, if that doesn't make you want to protest too, then you've got a real problem.

Oh please. You think just 1000 people are against the establishment? Go back to school.

You can get a 100 crazies to be against anything. This group doesn't know what they are against.

Rsclzo...who in hell are you to be calling anybody crazy.

They know exactly what they want. They want a better world. They want the rich to stop bribing the government so they can become richer. They want to find jobs!!! More than that, they would like the jobs to pay well enough that they can afford a place to live, food, clothing, health care and to pay for their college educations.

I think this is a right they should have. Why do you want them to be a drain on society by being unemployed, homeless, hungry, sick, and uneducated? That would only put more of a drain on you for the taxes the government would make you pay to keep them from starving or pay the medical bills they cannot pay.

None of them want to be unemployed, but if it takes all of your paycheck just to pay for the gas to go to and from work...the job isn't worth it. Decent wages for a decent days work isn't too much to ask. More jobs to make a better economy. More people making money means more people spending money. Which would mean more money made by the corporations. Right now, your tax dollars are paying for bailouts of the rich. How does that help you? How does that help anyone?

99 percent??? You must be smokin' some good @!$%#.

Percentage of profits American corporations paid in taxes in 1961:40.6, Today:10.5, Portion of the in U.S. corporate profit margins since 2001 that has come from depressed wages:3/4, Percentage change in the median household wealth of white families since 2005: -16, Of Hispanic families: -66, Percentage of Americans who say they did not have money to buy food all times last year:18.2. WE are the 99%ers and we want change!

Perhaps Wall Street will give in to your demands and move their trading activity to Bermuda. Why not picket GM who was losing money even when Ford was making large profits. General Motors has not paid the government back as the banks did, they build many jobs abroad and were given special tax consideration in the bankruptcy so that they will pay no taxes on profits for 5 years. This all by the Obama group. Oh, that's right, I forgot, they are a UNION SHOP.

Yep, all on Obama. They don't go after Unions because this is really about "Party" not any issues.

humm..where to start..ha ha..because i have heard of silly ,but this takes the cake..ok ..1 most of the big money people you talked about ..they are paid in stocks..not cash..is how they avoid paying the big income tax bill..they don't touch the stock..no tax..thank bill for that one..was one of his laws changes that did that..used to be you got charge even for the stocks you held..2 again..look at how stocks are taxed..there is none almost..also banks have started to got back to ..you want to borrow money..have money ..the way it used to be..which as most of us..if you have no savings..no money ..guess what..is most of the country ..3 ha ha..hate to hammer the point home..but again..look at stocks..most people don't own any..bonds..401's..funds..but real stock..few people want to buy..and take the risk..the us got sold this bill of goods back in the early 90's..4 ..the fraud you speak of ..it was pointed out way back in the early 90's..guess what..the same people you scream are at fault..said ..you can't give things to people who can't pay for it ..and not at some point have to paid the bill for it..guess what..bill is due..as for pot not being bad..ha ha..really need to read up on it all little more..has very limited use..4..depends of what study you read on that one..most have us around the top ..5 ..the problem is with our is how easy it is to sue..and the crazy amount of money given out ..most doctors will tell you..just 20 yrs ago..heck ..just 10..3/4 of the stuff they are sued over..would have been laughed out of court..not now..now if you can come up with something silly..and lord is there some silly malpractice suits ..guess what..somebody gets to pay those cost..same with free healthcare for illegals ..that all cost money..somebody has to pay for it..and doctors have to pay for there schooling too..just like you ..which every year goes up..for some crazy stuff..schools to look prettier..sports teams..prof wants the new car..wants to live like somebody working for a corp..not someone who is working for students..a lot of the school mgr, admits and prof are making 6 or better incomes... guess who is paying for that..for the research that goes no where.. for them not to teach the class ,but the grad students...for the patent money they pocket ..could go on and on..there is a major problem..that no one wants to touch or fix..

Michaelmooreorless: You really should get your facts straight before you go foaming at the mouth. You are just repeating stuff you heard on TV from the real Micheal Moore. Try and understand how things work like the tax code and understand the difference between income tax and investment tax and why they are taxed at different rates. Look up the facts as to who really pays the most taxes in the US. Look up who really pays nothing and what they contribute. Look up the difference between a Communist system and a capitalistic one and why one one over the other in places that experienced communism. then comes back here and wite your term paper.

6..no..is not to pay for the wars..most of it goes to pay for social programs..really should look up the budget some time..most of it goes for what they call 3rd rail..and medicare SS ..and the funny thing ..you are asking for more of them..guess it means ..we would have to borrow even more..the defense is so high because alot of those countries you look at so great...they depend on us to defend them in case of war..if they had to do it themselves..they would not be able to afford those social programs ..ever heard of NATO..the biggest part of NATO is us..so as they pay less and less to protect themselves..guess who is picking up the tab...oh and before you trot out the old argument..worry about our self only..we tried that..led to WW2.. do some reading of history..out of time..but can for the most part tear apart every point you listed..looking at just the surface..need to do a lot more reading..and look at things deeper..a lot of the very people you have marching with you..are the very reason we are where we are..they don't want to earn they things they want..they want it given to them..is one of the worse problems in our country now..the sense of entitlement ..we are still the only place in the world where you can come with nothing..and by hard work and the sweat of your brow..you can make a good life for yourself and your family..only here..most countries will not even let you in without a job..or a skill they need..we are the only country that does

Slobber and scoff all you want, 1%ers and paid minions. Leaders arise out of movements like this, which is why I see fright written all over these dismissive posts. If we just call them hippies, they'll go away, right? If we just say they don't know what they're doing, we won't have to worry, right?

We'll see. Some movements come to nothing. So far, the President doesn't even want to acknowledge this one. It's well beyond the scope of his plans. The Democrats, and Republicans feed from different sides of the same slop hole, and Wall Street fills it up.

This movement makes all of these people uncomfortable. Campaign fiance reform is heart attack serious to politicians, and it's a firm part of the 99% movement: get the money out of politics.

This may lead to a new Tienanmen Square massacre in the end, because both sides of the aisle have something to lose here, but America has everything to gain by holding Wall Street to a level of control that keeps the country safe, moving money out of the hands of a tiny few and into the hands of everyone else, getting politics money free, and taking control of America out of the hands of a runaway financial system.

If this movement doesn't do it, they will have planted the seed. This is just a symptom, and like every illness, symptoms get worse before the infection is expelled, or the patient dies.

I should also point out that the votes in this seed for the 1st post outnumber all the negative posts by a wide margin. You are outnumbered, many, many, many to one.

Does It Anger You The Wealthiest 1% of America Pays A Much Lower Tax Rate Than The Rest Of Us?

It would if it was true, but it's not. Better double check your facts....I did!

Steve-564412

it does not matter what you tell people if they don't want to hear it. I want to know how many of this so call 99% really paid a dime in taxes, how many got every dime back and then some on their tax returns? so in fact the paid nothing 0% and where did the money they got back above what they paid in come from ? hmmmm the Rich 1 % that paid their 15% on their million that where. in a nation of 311 million the so called 99%ers only number in the 1000's think about it .

Funny how some of you say you can add, but there are 10s of thousands of protesters out there. Not all in the same city because they cannot afford to go far from home. Some are working citizens that feel that this is a good cause. If you like the way things are, vote for those you feel did well for you in office. If not, free speech is our right in this country and those protesters have every right to be there and say what they want changed.

It's just the political ones that demand they also come up with the solutions to the problems. Even if they did have solutions, who among you would even read, listen or deem what they say as anything? You closed your mind before you opened it. Stop acting like you know what's going on when you don't.

I'd say 50% of the drivers on Main Street that passed our demonstration yesterday honked their horns in support of what we were doing. Just because people aren't actively participating 24/7 doesn't mean they aren't supportive.

First of all the richest 1% pay a higher tax rate on income taxes than the vast majority of us. Everyone pays the same rate for capital gains which is lower than income tax in most cases, but since 47% don't pay ANY income taxes it's imposssible that the weathiest 1% pays at a lower rate than "most" of us.

Second more people were in Nashville on Saturday for a Walk for LIfe supporting Breast Cancer research than were present al ALL the "occupy" protests in the country. These are fringe loons simply jealous because some one else ahs more than they do and upset that they might have to work to earn a living. MOst can't even answer the simple question of why they are there. they had to get a guy with a bull horn to lead them in a chant claiming to be resolve to continue their protesting, but were confused enough that they didn't even mention "what" it is they are protesting.

You are correct the list is endless, MicheleMoore-Happy1. It has been on for far too long for most to notice what is happening. Keep up the good work!

Words for the wise:

Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I
care not who makes its laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild

In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the
military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced
power exists and will persist.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
John F. Kennedy

Unless you become more watchful in your states and check the
spirit of monopoly and thirst for exclusive privileges you will in the end find
that... the control over your dearest interests has passed into the hands of
these corporations.
Andrew Jackson

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Declaration of Independence

Michelle - Right on!! The tbagger rabble on this post are part of the paid and organized "grassroots" propaganda machine of the Tpublican party, and don't reflect the vast majority of this country.

Michelle, what you are saying, whether you will admit it or not, is that you want communism. In that condition you would have economic and income equality. I don't think you want that, so I would giive some consideration to a plan "B."

It is easy to rail against what one does not like because not liking something requires no effort. As the old saying goes, "If doing <fill in the blank> were so easy, everyone would be doing it." Simply because there appear to be lots of people who are willing to mill around in a plaza for a few hours does not mean that they have the necessary commitment or the strategic planning ability to create a WORKABLE and PRACTICAL alternative way of doing things.

Like I said, what you talk about simply sounds like communism. You complain that the rich pay 15% income taxes, but what you don't say is that the tax rate they pay is a tax on long term capital gains, not earned income. To get capital gains, you have to take risks over a long time period and to live with the possibility that your gamble will not pay off at all. Resenting them because they are smarter about the risks they take does not mean that there is economic unfairness. It means that those who want the certainty of a steady, reliable income without any risks have to pay a price for that certainty and steadiness in the form higher taxes.

You complain about the lack of universal healthcare. That's fine, except that you imply it should somehow cost little or nothing. Let's say that we make it universal, but the universality of it is controlled by the government instead of those evil profit making private health care companies. To see how it all works out, take a peek at Canada where people who simply cannot wait for treatment flock to the United States where they can be treated promptly for life-threatening illnesses that cannot and will not be addressed by the machinery of the Canadian system. Making something universal is not a panacea for the essential underlying problems of society.

You are correct that greed is a problem, but let's not be so naive as to think that corporations, or more properly speaking, corporate executive, boards of directors, and shareholders are the only ones who exhibit greed. Everyone exhibits greed, strarting with the person who snatches a $20 bill lying on the ground next to someone's purse to the person who euphemistically understates his income and overstates his expenses on his annual tax filings. It displays itself in the way that people cut into line ahead of others, how they cut off other drivers, and how they jostle each other to get bargain-priced gifts for holidays on Thanksgiving Day. It applies to people who scraped together money from relatives and friends and who overstated their income when they applied to banks, which loaned them other depositors' money, so they could buy a house they could not really afford at all.

Before you point your finger at poster children for greed, it would be wise to remember that there are three of them pointed right back at yourself. Greed is not a characteristic solely reserved for the so-called "rich." It inhabits everyone. It's simply that some have risen to positions that command higher price tags. The essential nature exists in full force in their poorer cousins.

You may not like the competitive world that exists, but the rest of the natural world has adapted to it very nicely. Lions, tigers, salmon, trout, groundhogs, squirrels, robins, eagles...all of them have adapted. Now, it is time for humans to do the same thing. Instead of complaining, start doing something constructive. Protests are great, but too much of it just paints a picture of a whining mass of people who are full of discontent but no willingness to make it any different.

Occupy is STAGED, Astroturff and LOSERS.

RD13 & Galt - Just like lions, tigers, and other animals, humans have adapted for survival by establishing what are called "civil societies", without which their survival on an individual basis will be short lived. It is the manner in which each individual society functions that dictates how well and for how long it will survive. Contrary to the delusions of "objectivism" idolized by the greedy, the success of individuals within a society is a result of the "collective" benefits of the social structure and not despite of it. In fact, the very purpose for the formation of a collective civil society is to suppress the impulses of individual greed to the extent that they interfere with the survival of the society as a whole. It is not a revelation that greed is a phenomena that is not limited to any particular segment of society. In fact, it is this individual greed that is targeted by those in power to lure them with the fanciful ideas of "taxes are bad", "government is bad", "rules and regulations are bad" so they can manipulate them to believe that they will get something for nothing. When you have a divided society where a substantial chunk also harbors deep, historical prejudices, they become that much easier to manipulate.

No one is denying that we live in a competitive world, but how do you think that these corporate masters of competitiveness have become rich? They haven't become wealthy by selling goods to the Chinese. It is the american consumer that has in large part made them rich, but the benefits of cheap goods can only be realised if the consumer has a means of earning income to consume them. They are the proverbial golden goose. The problem is that corporate greed has reaped such unbelievable profits realized by executives in recent years that they the health of the goose is irrelevent. In fact, the astonishing wealth earned by those at the top, have made them care little even for the future success of their own corporation.

It is a classic case of objectivism run rampant and we are suffering the consequences of individual greed and laissez faire capitalism subverting the benefits of our social structure. The purpose of these protests is to bring the idea of "collective good" back to our society so that all of its individuals can enjoy its benefits. It is not to make the wealthy poor, but to make those in the middle and the most needy, have a chance at a decent life.

Lenin could not have said it better.

Actually, the Lenins of the world are no more interested in the well being of the people than this "1%" crowd, or you, RD13.

The false promises of globalization were sold to Americans on the premise that opening these "vast new markets" would create jobs here, and would raise OUR standard of living. It was, is and always will be a fraud of epic proportions. The globalist knows that the demise of America and the West is irrelevant; the rising economies of the BRIC nations will far surpass the market potential of America and the EU. Never mind the dozens of other developing nations behind the BRIC nations. Far from worrying about only the short term, the globalist has seen the possibilities available in the low paid, virtually unregulated 3rd world, which is economically adolescent, while we are elderly, with our development largely done and over with. That is their future.

Alas, they do not grasp one immutable and unavoidable truth: growth, as we knew it for the past 200 years, is unsustainable, and certainly so for a planet that could never support 1st world living standards for even half its current human population.

So trot out the Rove Talking Points; keep spouting the John Birch / social Darwinist propaganda. Keep showing yourself as woefully undereducated, while playing up every logical fallacy you can think of, all against your own interests.

These people - OWS and like minded people around the world - do not want communism. They want democracy and an economic system that is not feudalistic, kleptocratic or controlled by an aristocracy or a small group of oligarchs. They seem to have a fair grasp of what they want. You, on the other hand, seem only to want to smear and slander those who are opposed to your exalted elite from the perch in your gilded cage.

sk-nitroWW, before you go around hurling clichés at everyone, first understand that those who disagree with the tactics of Occupy Wall Street crowd and its fuzzy logic do not necessarily disagree with their observations. I, for one, have always disagreed with the notion that globalization would produce more jobs here. The whole premise of such thinking was that we would transfer production of essential goods to other countries where the cost structure was lower and that we would become the world's center for the management of the allocation of such work. It made no sense then, and it obviously makes no sense today either.

Perhaps a few other things have escaped your notice. You might not have noticed that permanently higher unemployment will now be the fact since during the past 5-6 years of political instability and regulatory madness, businesses woke up and realized that Washington simply could not be trusted to establish ground rules that wouldn't change in the blink of an eye simply. It realized that congressman, senators, and presidents, pander promiscuously to every available interest group that has money and/or votes to ensure their reelection. Since most tax policies and regulations have their touching point on the number of employees that a company has, business had no option but to bring the kind of stability to its operations that government refused to do. It started automating its processes. The evidence of it is that while the rest of the country was limping along with more than a 9% unemployment rate, the unemployment rate for computer programmers, project managers, QA people, systems analysts, etc. was a mere 3%. People wonder why it is so difficult to find work, and yet they never ask why. All they do is rage and accuse the banks of being evil. They blame mortgage companies, Wall Street, and anything else that is visible; but they don't bother to look hard to see what it is that is actually causing the problem. Now that businesses need fewer humans to produce the same volume of goods and services, the level of difficulty of finding work has gone up substantially.

Moreover, farming out work of all types to businesses and individuals in foreign countries has ended up regionalized specific types of manufacturing in a way that regional conflicts, regional political instability, and regional economic situations can jeopardize global economic stability. A massive storm in Bangalore, India, where so much of the world's offshored computer programming and processing is being done could knock out power and destroy infrastructure to the extent that it affects the local Wal-Mart store, which incidentally obtains nearly all its merchandise from any country except the U.S. Remember, however, that it is the "low price leader," and it is kept in business by legions of unthinking, self-centered shoppers who buy based solely on price. These people comprise those innocent doves who have been dubbed the "99%" by OWS who vote with their wallet instead of with their conscience.

Doing something about this will not come about because some hapless folks camp out on a plaza in NYC and figuratively sing "Kumbaya" together. Anyone who has actually been there and witnessed it would come away with a very different view. The arguing, infighting, and jockeying for prominence are hardly the stuff that inspires confidence. People want change, of that there is no doubt. They want political office to stop being auctioned off to interest groups that wave big bundles of dollar bills. They want responsive government, they want accountability for actions, and they want integrity in public officials. What OWS offers is simply chaos, and frankly I have had enough of that for the past three years to last me for a lifetime. I don't need their contribution, and I certainly don't want to coddle them while they act out in their Andy Warhol fifteen minutes of fame.

.

RD13 - Calling names is the gutless way of avoiding debate when you have no coherent response. By the way, the "legions of unthinking self centered..." go to Walmart because they don't have a choice. Walmart is not the only provider of goods made in the developing countries, it is merely the cheapest by virtue of their buying power shutting out other competitors who also sell the same chinese, bangladeshi, etc., made goods but at a slightly higher price. The corporations did not go elsewhere because they couldn't make a decent profit due to "regulations", but because they chose to make an enormously larger profit by harnessing cheap labor elsewhere. On top of that many don't pay the taxes on the entire profit they make by using tax havens and dummy corporations. No doubt that the Occupy protests are disorganized and without a "plan" and chaotic. That is what makes them a genuine manifestation of public outrage as opposed to the very well organized "grassroots" T party protests choreographed by the Koch brothers. The efficacy of the apparent chaos of the occupy protests will not be apparent until the 2012 election.

vs101, no company makes decisions based on a single factor. Sure, there is lower priced labor anywhere in the world outside the United States, but that is not the reason that companies choose to set up operations there. They are driven out of the United States because of the uncertainty of continuing their operations here. One year the government wants to tax things one way, then they they change things a few years later. The regulations that a company has to follow become more and more onerous as time passes. These are not mere platitudes. I know the presdents of several companies who simply uprooted their entire workforce and moved out of state precisely because of taxes and regulations. It is not much of a stretch of believability to project that very large companies that have enormous overhead expenses would employ the same strategies for the same reasons and move operations to another country.

For workers here in the U.S. who are now unemployed, it is easy to blame their loss of jobs on "greedy" corporations. They look at their own situation, and the read about corporate profits going up, and they assume that if someone profits while they suffer, then the only possible answer is that the successful party is the greedy one. Using that same logic, a child in a family who has a successful career as a computer programmer while his father is laid off from his construction job must be greedy. That is obvious not true, and if such fallacious logic can be admitted in that situation, then its possibility of being equally misapplied to corporations should also be admitted.

The real villain is the incompetence of government. Elected representatives who have never run a company, never had to meet a payroll, never had to live under the increasingly oppressive and heavy handed climate of regulation and confiscatory taxation, and never had to try to grow a company in such a climate pass laws left and right without ever understanding how they play out in the real world. The recently passed healthcare legislation is a good example. When the president first announced his intention to get healthcare legislation passed, his primary reason, as given in a national speech, was that the cost of healthcare in the United States was too high and its rate of growth was making the national economy "unsustainable" (his words, not mine). So, congressmen and women passed legislation that was supposed to drive down costs. What has happened? Costs have gone up, not down. Small business owners (the ones that employ most of the people in the U.S.) have already indicated that if they have to pay the fees that the legislation requires, they will have to lay off people, not hire more of them. As a small business owner, I have already determined in discussions with my accountant that I will have to shrink my business in order to stay in business because the cost of employing each person in the company will go up in a rather dramatic way.

I am in a business where I could employ people in another country readily without having to set up shop overseas. I could contract with companies in other countries like India, Russia, Ukraine, Italy, and the like to provide services that would normally be provided by employees here. The employees I already have are ones who have an intimate knowledge of how my business runs. To jettison them for the sake of a few dollars makes no sense because if I lose them, I also lose their expertise not just with the industry in which we operate, but also the expertise they have in dealing with our suppliers and customers. Keeping them is a high priority, but I cannot do that if I volutarily take on new employees here in the U.S. The cost of training and maintenance is simply too high: our prices and profit margins simply won't allow it. So, what are my options? Lay off people I need for the sake of hiring people here in the U.S., or keeping the people I need and hiring people overseas? You tell me which is the better choice.

Other employers are just like me. They want to keep operations local because that enables them to keep an eye on how the business runs. Going overseas is not something that is ideal. It is a compromise done out of financial necessity, but it introduces many problems of business management. It introduces political risks, economic risks, cultural differences and expectations, and a host of other problems that cannot necessarily be disregarded just because the bottom line improves. Most companies that have overseas operations would like to move them back onshore, but again, the way that federal and many state laws and regulations are written make it financially impossible.

There are ways to reverse this, but it has to begin with the consumer. Consumers have to start spending their money in a way that directs profits to U.S. companies that have been able to keep operations onshore. That's why I mentioned Wal-Mart shoppers not having a conscience. It's true that most people who shop there do so because things there are cheap, but people have to start voting their dollars to businesses that employ people here, not in China or India. If they don't, they should not be surprised and should not complain when jobs move off shore. They are making it happen. How can people expect that if they buy things based on the lowest price, that U.S. companies should continue to employ U.S. workers whose wage requirements are many multiples higher than those of workers in the rest of the world? Something has to give.

Most small company owners are not rich. I know I'm not. The only reason I do what I do is because I like the independence of being in business on my own. I certainly don't do it because of the size of my paycheck. Everyone is upset with the economy and the tendency is to paint corporations with a broad brush, labeling them all as evil. What I am saying is that life isn't like that, and to persist in branding all business and business owners as greedy SOBs is neither accurate or fair. We try to deliver what the market wants, but if the market wants cheap, then we have to find a way to deliver cheap and still stay in business.

RD - The points you brought up regarding buying local are good. I try to buy goods made in our country and encourage others at every opportunity. However, I can afford to pay a little more for these indigenous goods and services. A substantial chunk of our society cannot and are forced to buy Walmart. However, most can but choose not to do so when presented with similar goods at a reduced price. I don't have a disagreement with portions of your argument regarding onerous regulations and understand that there are 2 sides to every argument, and I don't pretend to believe that those on the left of the political spectrum are wholly correct on all issues. There is a balance to everything. However, your argument identifying regulations as the reason why businesses couldn't make it here isn't supported by facts. Greed is not inherently evil, it is human nature. I don't believe that corporations who take their business abroad are evil SOBs, they are just greedy. Also, when I say this I don't mean that EVERY business or corporation is filled with greedy people. There is no doubt that corporations and businesses are an important part of what makes this country tick. There is only so much you can post on these sites, and one has to highlight the most salient aspect of your argument.

Thank you RD and VS for showing the complexity of the system and how each role (consumer, business owner, worker, and government) links to the other. I appreciate it.

I have been trying to buy US made goods. What I have been finding is that some goods simply are not made here, where other goods that I thought we not made here are. This is the role I can help with as a consumer. This is something actionable I can do. However I need some assistance with that role. I have been finding that the online stores do not mark where products are made or give options to buy the one made in USA.

When I bought local I was able to check the labels and make that decision. When I went shopping local I was happy to find a product I was unable to find for the past 20 years. Shoes that fit. I will be doing more business with that company in the future.

Instigating violence Arthur? Be careful there...

Obama and all the Democrats will be held responsible for every injury, and all property damage because "they" are in charge, and theses are their goons.

And for the lives lost and the human beings assaulted by the Tea Parties?

To Arthur Hale (above) who wrote, "Start in front of my house dippos, let's see how long your riot lasts."

I say, give us your address, bubba.

Yep, Arthur Hale, all we need is a point on Google maps to start right in front of your house. Every day. Every week.

Sorry Wanting.sniper, I doubt you can even get the Democrats to acknowledge this movement. In case you haven't noticed, and I know you have, the President hasn't come out in favor of OWS. This is the American people's political plan, not the Democrats.

This isn't so much a political anything. This is people speaking their mind on the injustices they see daily and want changed. There is NO political group...it's all groups, all people, all the world that is asking for a change in a Peaceful manner. Those that don't like change are the ones that are trying to make things violent.

REBA- Your post is why it's hard to take this ows seriously. "George W. Bush" ??? Yeah,he had TARP but what about the $30 Billion from Obama? Car bailoutS? Yet,Obama gets a pass? Why? Democrat? Hypocrisy at its best.

School debts? So why W St? Occupy Berkley,then I'll know you mean what you say. Ya might want to occupy the White House,too. Ya know,$30 Billion from Obama to the banks. Auto bailoutS. I won't hold my breath.

Sopmeone earlier claimed that the Tea party had assaulted someone.

That is an absolute lie. several Tea party people have been assaulted but not a singel person has been assaulted by the Tea Party protesters.

I wonder if the protesters realize Obama's biggest benefactor is Goldman Sachs, the guiltiest of the guilty!

Toasty McGrath, what is your source for your claims regarding the Tea Party? Or, are you just spewing your usual drivel?

So glad you asked, Rockit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbnEy_U9pYk

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/joe-stack-statement-alleg_n_467539.html?page=1

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/pittsburgh-shooter-poplawski-didnt-o

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/10/dc.museum.shooting.suspect/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/21/MNMN1EHB37.DTL

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40423.html

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/03/to-all-modern-sons-of-liberty-this-is.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34907.html

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/03/21/the-secret-service-is-investigating-a-conservative-bloggers-oba/

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/right-wing_extremists_take_on_local_law_enforcemen.php?ref=mp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7g3y597fs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/04/AR2010110407609.html

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

http://www.newsminer.com/bookmark/12332315-%E2%80%98We%E2%80%99ve-got-%E2%80%99em-outmanned-and-outgunned-%E2%80%99-Cox-said-of-government

So u base this as the truth. Man get a real job and pay your Tax's u Loon.

Toasty

The first link you showed was a person trying to do an assault to Mr. Paul, note its a man in a wig. the wig came off.

The second link makes no connection to the Tea Party, you reaching..

Third link, no Tea Party connection nor even implied.

Fourth link CNN, A HARD LEFT WING offering say WHITE SUPREMIST, bothing about the TEA PARTY, nor all the Tea Partys black, brown, yellow and red members. They made me a member and I am indian.

Fifth link... Lone gunman with an axe to gring with the ACLU, NOW that is a reasonable cause, bet has ZERO links to the TEA PARTY.

Six link, no mention of Tea Party... Your batting 1000

Seventh link... A man with a blog, what a relaible source, he mentions Tea Party but only want them to join him against the collectivists. (That is a good idea) only because the left is readying to try to kill us off because they are intollerant, more so than those they poing fingers at.

Eighth Link... A (Lone, only one) Tea Party participant wrote a blog saying people need to have a face to face chat with some leftist scumbag... while nameless paerson broke a window, name drob G Giffords... who was shot by one of her own...

Toasty your not making your point.

"Toasty your not making your point."

That would you're, not your, and yes, he did.

Uh, JGS? That video was the famous one where Paul supporters stomped Lauren Valle's head into a street curb. All the other criminals I've linked to shared Tea Party values. Every one of them, far right anti-government conservatives. The Giffords' shooter is especially heinous, since his tea party views caused him to kill my neighbors and nearly assassinate my congresswoman.

And I have more links, if you ask nicely. MANY more.

Toasty's link have little if nothing to do with the Tea Party. Toasty clutches at straws.

The Giffords' shooter is especially heinous, since his tea party views caused him to kill my neighbors and nearly assassinate my congresswoman.

Gifford's shooter (Jared Loughner) was described by his classmates as, "far left, quite liberal."

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-01-08/entertainment/30068235_1_giffords-sign-language-class-jared-loughner

Any other lies to spread tonight, Toasty?

VaBooth, that's not a bad idea, occupying the White House. Can you imagine the movement that might take place in government if we actually took the protests to their rightful targets? Years of political incompetence, openly engaging in the sale of political favors, buying votes, out of touch representatives who specialize in spin, all of it needs the loving touch of those who have parked themselves on Wall Street. Do you think they will move? I don't. That would take effort, and besides squatting on someone's private property has become so comfortable. Public land would lack the amenities, and besides, Washington is so far away. It would be like going to another planet.

Like Bernie Madoff, Enron...

Lehman, Goldman Sachs, Citi

The people want a share of their own work for a change.

Authur Hale -abusing others will not get your point across. If the CEO got 2,500 times what their workers got then the workers didn't get their share.

The rich don't get that way saving their money and working hard. They get rich by stealing the value earned by the work of others.

If you are rich and worried I wold suggest you try to preserve all the capital you can because Americans are tired of being serfs in the system. This will be the second workers revolt in America and we will bring the middle class back again.

What's with this dippo thing? If you can't contribute a sensible idea, please go back to watching whatever it was on your T.V. You really don't belong on this newsvine. By the way, what is your address?

Arthur Hale: Pay TOASTY MC GRath to do your research for you, or be another lying right wing rural republican delusionist. Everyone else here knows how to use Google.

Teabaggers spit at congressmen seen on news, made terrorist phone threats to other congressmen including Bart Stupek, Threw rocks through Rep. Giffords office windows (no escalation there,right), cut the gas lines to a congressman's brothers house, there are more just follow the news...

@ Letusreason - Someone out on a golf course while others build and market what his business sells, isn't earning that extra bonus. The people working for him are, but they aren't getting that money.

We can't forget Paris Hilton, or the Walton heirs.

talkingtoyou, there is no film of any Tea party person spitting on anyone. that wasa lie that the congressman got caught in. Pelosi and her crew didn't even have to walk through that crowd they could have used the underground tunnel connecting to the White house, but chose to walk past the people they had just screwwed and them falsly accuse them of spitting.

Keith 1952, I guess the Kennedy family should give up their fortunes as well. Old Joe Kennedy made his money running illegal whiskey during the prohibition era before getting into the banking industry. It's funny how the Looney Lefties protesting won't go after the big money Dummycrats.

Arthor Hale is right, If you worked and got a paycheck you have your share. If your a dunce in a low paing job that is YOUR problem not anyone else's.

Hey "John"--

Did you actually ever read Atlas Shrugged, or did you hear that on Beck's show?

you mean like a Nazi ghetto?

Yep. There is so much hate for the Republicans and these "C" words for collecting all these bonuses and laying off 10+% of their staff. It is sickening.

That's good, Arthur. I hope that hate eats at you every second of every day till your dying breath, when you realize you failed to do anything useful in the world.

Arthur Hale: Damn! Take a break! You're passing some bad gas! Every time I run across one of your rants I can smell it.

It's a shame people have to hate those they don't understand and are unwilling to understand anything different from what they know.

Deborah S, exactly. So I guess that's why the Left hate the Tea Party movement as well. The Lefties are afraid of loosing their power, that's why the're all bunched up over it..

The protesters remind me to vote FOR ANYONE WHO IS NOT Obama.

Keep protesting, it will make sure that those like me visit the polls like Chicago democrats and we will vote often on election day.

Kill it.

You can bet at this point if there is any violence, it will have been instigated by a republican operative, just like at the Air and Space museum. Not only to they sound like the NAZIs, they act like the Soviets. You can see what the GONTP has become now, as their mask of caring about America is stripped away.

Quite right. Addressing some of our other problems will require pulling out of the WTO, making it illegal for heath insurance to be for profit (as has been done with the free market system in Germany), heavily regulate Pharma, heavily regulate Wall Street.

If all else fails, change the currency along with all these measures, effectively revaluing the dollar. There are a number of commodities that we could make it illegal to trade, as in oil (which was why gas was cheap until the took that rule away), staples (any food stuffs deemed required for daily life, that will instantly bring the price of food down), etc.

We've allowed Wall Street to speculate on the necessities of life, and we are paying for it with our lives.

We don't need to take the money from the rich, just re-instate the estate tax, only make it 90%. Ultra rich dynasties are something that our founding fathers warned against from the beginning. The estate tax makes everyone start over; that's it's one and only goal. No one inherits a small country's budget when daddy dies. I guarantee that putting that money back in the government pot, and into government backed business loans will create a spike in incentive to innovate and breath life back into the American Dream.

There are probably thousands of little changes that need to be made, all with the idea of "promoting the general welfare," which, as part of the preamble of the Constitution, should be something that every sworn politician is bound to uphold.

Many ideas are good, but not perfect. We need for our government officials to look into doing what's best for all the people, not just the rich. Fair taxing, fair wages, fair housing costs, fair trade agreements, etc.

I think there are too many things that need changing to make the world a better place to live. Not all of it can be done overnight, but a start needs to be made. Our politicians working 'together' to make a better world for all of us would be a great start.

I don't mind people being rich, if they invest in the world around them. They pay fair wages, don't try to sell things for too much money and for those that own property...not pricing housing too high for the average person to pay. They will make money from more people being able to spend more money. The more money out there to spend, the more they can make...if they don't get too greedy.

Technology has made some jobs useless, but then train some employees that would have been replaced to repair the technology or to do other things needed in your company. Investing in the people helps the world to prosper and keeps the rich people rich in the long run. It just makes it easier for the rest of us to live without having to borrow to pay for daily necessities.

Morales and caring for you fellow man is what is needed now. Justice for all, not just a few.

Yeah, with all your tax breaks!

We will!

Where are these jobs they're creating? Wall Street doesn't create jobs. They push money around and profit off the work of others, contributing nothing themselves. They're not investing in businesses, they're investing in nothing. The money at Wall Street doesn't raise capital for businesses anymore. They create nothing that benefits the world.

Those protesting should be creating jobs and show us how being an employer should be. Why aren't they creating jobs? What is stopping them?

Banks to begin with. They are not lending out money for small business at the current time.

Let's hear from the status quo apologists here...answer this:

What does Wall St produce that benefits the average person or the country as a whole?

The vast majority of the money that changes hands on Wall St. has absolutely nothing to do with investing in firms and creating jobs. None of the money that's paid out for stocks in the secondary market benefits the firms whose ownership is being traded. Only Initial Public Offerings and the occasional subsequent public offerings or sale of treasury stock actually put money in the coffers of companies and might theoretically result in a new hire. This is a very, very small percentage of the trades that go on. If you want to give some tax advantage to those trades, fine. But for the most part, the trades that happen on Wall Street are just rich people gambling. Gambling gains are normally taxed at your regular income tax rate unless you are wealthy enough to gamble on securities, commodities, derivatives and the like. I think we should treat secondary trades as the gambling events that they are and tax them accordingly.

I would even go so far charge a significant additional tax percentage on gains from stock sales made within the first year a security is owned, and for all commodities trades for which one can't provide proof of a legitimate potential business use for the underlying resource, though this would require changes to the tax law and enforcement procedures to allow the US to efficiently and effectively track these trades and tax them even if they happen in other countries. If the details could be adequately worked out, these measures would decrease the volatility of gas and food prices and start to give companies a reason to think longer term than just their next quarterly statement. Not that I think it could ever happen. Like all human systems, the ones who need the most regulation are those whose power and resources allow them the privilege or writing (or commissioning) the regulations for the "other" 99%.

Here's one thing you can thank Goldman Sachs and other banks for, using Wall Street as their tool: High gas and food prices.

The lie they love to tell is that supply and demand controls costs.

A recent report to the senate found that most of the price is due to heavily trading these commodities. They trade it back and forth, driving the price up, and we pay at the pump and at the store. I guess that's there contribution to cutting C02 emissions, and fighting obesity. Don't drive, you're out of gas. Don't eat, you can't afford bread.

If more jobs were being made, the protesters wouldn't be out there...they would be working and making money.

Those of you who do not want to see the problem just call them takers, but they only ask for the same things we had when I was their age. They want jobs that pay enough to afford a home (doesn't have to be a house, just roof over their heads), food (not have to depend on food banks or foodstamps to eat), health care for when they are sick or injured (not have to pay their whole paycheck just to get insurance), clothing (no legitimate company will hired a naked person and you will get arrested for going out naked to the store), and for the money to get to and from your job. Is that too much to ask?

Culheath, glad to see your post here, but I think I can provide you with a product that Wall Street offers that benefits everyone: liquidity. Most people think that when they buy something with a credit card, the bank that issues the card keeps that debt as part of a portfolio and derives income from it. In fact, that is not what happens. Instead, banks bundle many consumer receivables such as credit card debt, auto loans, home mortgages, and other forms of amortizing debt and sells those bundled portfolios to Wall Street firms. Wall Street pays money for those obligations which the banks then use to extend credit to more consumers in the form of more auto loans, more credit card charges, and more mortgages. Wall Street cannot keep those loans as assets since Wall Street firms are brokers or go-betweens. They will dissect the loans, stripping off payments and recombining them into customized investments designed to meet the needs of the buyer of the product. For instance, an casualty insurance company typically needs bonds that have a ten year maturity because it wants to match its term of exposure to the payment stream received from its investments. In the open market, there might not be sufficient ten year bonds or the bonds available may fail to have specific quality characteristics that are required by the insurer. So, Wall Street firms will strip future payments from portfolios of amortizing debt to create a customized bond, also known as a "derivative." Some investments do not have any current payments at all, instead making payments in a single lump sum at a future date. These are constructed by stripping off the final future payments from amortizing obligations sold by banks to Wall Street firms and consolidating them into a single hybrid investment. The insurance company then pays the Wall Street firm for the investment, and the Wall Street firm now has money again to buy loan portfolios from banks who need liquidity. Bear in mind, that without this kind of liquidity, there would be **NO** cosumer lending at all. If there was no liquidity provided by Wall Street to banking institutions, once the first round of credit card charges are accumulated such that a bank's capitalization limits would have been reached, the lending would stop entirely until the consumer paid down his debt. The effect of doing things this way would be that banks would demand far higher payments for all types of loans, and there would be no lending at all until a bank's asset to liability ratios were restored.

Wall Street also makes it possible for public companies to raise money. If there was no Wall Street, companies would find it nearly impossible to raise venture capital to build new production facilities, and they would not be able to hire more people to work in those facilities. Most companies need bridge loans that will provide them with cash to pay employees in anticipation of payments to be received from their customers. Without such financing, it would mean that all transactions would essentially become cash transactions: there would not be such a thing as settling accounts on a net 30, 60, or 90 day basis. Banks provide such loans, but again they need a place to put those loans so they can have cash to continue to feed public demand for loans and to meet regulatory requirements for cash reserves.

Wall Street serves many important purposes in the national and local economy. If it did not exist, people would be unable to buy homes unless they had saved nearly all of the money for their purchase in advance. Even then, they would still need banks to keep the money, and banks require fees to compensate them for accepting funds on a custodial basis. Once it accepts funds, it has to meet minimum capital requirements that are based on the amount of public funds that it controls. Banks themselves need to avail themselves of Wall Street's ability to raise funds to assist them in raising necessary funding to operate, and that funding more often than not needs to be derived from the sale of equities, not bonds.

I realize that pounding on Wall Street is an easy target, and there is lots of justification for the anger that people have with regard to the street's financial swagger. It is, however, a necessary part of society. There are very few countries in the world that do not have a stock exchange or an equivalent of Wall Street, and the countries that are without such are dirt poor and continuously dependent on the rest of the world for their survival. Even the old Soviet Union had its equivalent of Wall Street with the exception that it was totally controlled by central planners in the government. The bankruptcy of that country from both a political and economic viewpoint says volumes about the wisdom of allowing such enterprises to thrive in a free economy.

Now, with regard to Wall Street salaries, I would only ask this question: if you were deathly ill and you needed the best available medical help, would you resent paying your surgeon $20,000 to remove a cancerous tumor so much that you would refuse the surgery, or would you pay the fee knowing that his expertise would save your life? Similarly I would ask if you needed to have financial liquidity, the ability to get a mortgage, to buy a car using a lease or outright purchase, to send your son to college, or to help pay for your daughter's wedding, would you refuse to pay for any of these things because you dislike the fact that the people who keep the financial wheels greased are very highly paid? They have a certain expertise that most people simply do not grasp. They have to understand advanced mathematics, economics, international relations, politics, computer technology, and marketing. Then they have to make **HUGE** investments in computer infrastructure to make it all work, and they have to maintain those systems by paying massive expenses. They have to employ people whose academic credentials put most college graduates to shame. Talent of this type does not come cheap.

As an example, a person I know very well works for Ciiticorp working in one of its derivatve operations. He has a Ph.D. in applied mathematics, and when he was interviewed for his job, he was nearly turned down because he could not program using the "C" language, an arcane and older verion of languages like C++, Objectiive C, and C#. This is truly esoteric stuff, and while he makes a comfortable living, he still does not make enough to buy a house. To go further up the income ladder he has to find a way to bring more to the table. So, these people who people resent for making so much money have had to earn the right to do so by working like demons in school to acquire very highly specialized knowledge and taking considerable risks that once they emerged from school, there still may have been no jobs waiting.

This may not be a good answer to your question, but without writing an entire book on the subject, it is the best I can do now. Again, it is a pleasure to see your posts appear here.

Thanks for your well written reply. To your suggestion of liquidity as a beneficial product, there is a big difference (or ought to be) between banks and brokerage houses. When I speak of Wall St, it's not the banks that deal with consumer & business loans I am directing my attention to, it's the slice and dice brokerages that make secondary service profits from gambling by way of derivatives and swaps. Those things could disappear entirely from the economy and no one but the people directly involved with them would notice a thing.

The major problem is leverage ratios and the Wall St boys took to and over the edge and got trapped by it, no matter how elegant the predictive math supporting their gambling was.

Margin calls burn down the card house every time.

Yeah,and Kanye west is quaking in his 1,000 jeans.Do ya think Oprah gives a rats behind about what you think? I don't see michael moore or sean penn ponying up some big bucks to feed the fleas on Wall Street. Better get your heads out of the nether reaches and take a good hard look around. On second thought that would require an unbiased opinion.

I think the way to really make this work is target one company a month. Take BP/Amoco and get people to not buy any gas from them world wide for one month. That would get their attention. Then target another for another month (maybe BOA).

Dump your accounts at Bank of America,

If your house is underwater quit paying your mortgage,

If you are in forclosure, lawyer up and fight.

The rich and powerful always think they are untouchable, until the FBI knock down their door.

Shutting down businesses isn't going to help the economy. I agree that those businesses need to change their ways to be better for the long run and for all their customers.

I don't believe in shutting businesses down, but weakening them to help them see the error of their ways might work.

Stopping anyone from going to work isn't good for the cause either. Peaceful demonstrations make a bigger mark for cause than being rude and disrespectful to others. Show them you are the better person. Let them see you and let them hear you, but don't stop them from doing their jobs. You are the better people for being peaceful. Stay that way.

you have no clue do you?

obama is supporting the protest not the republicans, this protest favors him not the greedy republicans.

now run along......

Supporting this "protest" will backfire on obama, pelosi, et al.

EVERYONE is seeing what these scum really are...and EVERYONE knows that communists, socialists, and unions (all backed with Soros money) are "nudging" these clueless pawns.

now run along...

Yeah, BD, they're ordinary Americans. And unlike the Tea Parties, they aren't getting paid to do it.

Are you so naive, or just stupid. They have these people on film being paid to show up and carry signs. Not everyone of course, but enough different ones to make one a bit skeptical of motives.