So about 1% of the U.S. population is actively engaging in unnatural sexual relations.

You haven't factored in the heterosexual couples that enjoy anal sex, is that "unnatural" as well?

Either way, there are over 1500 species of animal with documented homosexual activity. So I am glad to tell you that it is quite natural indeed.

I am really tired of the animal argument. You can not compare rational humans to irrational animals. Animals also hunt and kill each other for food. Pigs cannibalize their young. So I guess that is perfectly natural for humans too? Your argument is worn out and plain wrong.

And by the way, guess my math is off because I do consider anal sex unnatural. That hole was designed for exit, not entry.

I'm not the one saying it's unnatural you are. Homosexual behaviour exists across the natural world regardless of how intelligent the animals are. Horses, Bonobo's, Chimps, Humans, Penguins the list goes on and on.

You are wrong ... suck it up and move on.

So to make the comparison, you are saying it is natural to do anything animals do?

Mr. Steady,

If you argue something is "unnatural", which means "not found in nature" or "against nature" don't be surprisewhen people point out where it happens in nature. And to discount the logic in the rebuttal merely illustrates your lack of cognition. This is basic logic here.

1% of the U.S. population is actively engaging in unnatural sexual relations.

Oh believe me, many more people than that, gay and straight alike, are enjoying what you would probably consider "unnatural sexual relations". And enjoying every minute! :)

You should probably stop thinking about gay sex so much if you want people to believe you are against it.

lol at mr. steady. here's a clue - "unnatural" as you use it has no objective definition, so your attempt to somehow debate it is silly. YOUR view of "unnatural" is different than mine is different than his is different than hers ....

you are saying it is natural to do anything animals do

Yes, it is by the very definition "natural". You may personally disapprove, but claiming it's unnatural is a fallacy.

Please note, by pointing out something is natural is not necessarily advocating it. For example, infanticide is natural, but frowned upon by everyone. However, the rational behind our disapproval of infanticide stems from rational sources, not a nebulous and incorrect claim that something is "unnatural".

We are an animal.

Our behaviour IS animal behaviour.

Some animals eat their young, some don't it is patently stupid to say that because X animal does this then we SHOULD, we are smarter than that.

You may very well argue against homosexuality on other grounds, but you can't say it's not natural - because it is.

The dictionary describes ANY sexual act that is outside of the MISSIONARY position

to be Sodomy.

OK boys and girls, how many of you out there are Sodomites?

Great, so now we are comparing Homosexual behavior to Animal behavior, and saying everything is just fine in the world! What is next, allowing Animals to marry and draw free health care and social security.

Great, so now we are comparing Homosexual behavior to Animal behavior, and saying everything is just fine in the world!

You obviously cannot understand a logical statement. If A equals B, and not-B equals C, then one cannot argue that A equals C, nor can they argue A equals not-C.

Get it, or do I have to draw pictures?

"Animals also hunt and kill each other for food"

Last check people (a type of animal) kill other people irrational reasons and kill other species for food. Unless you're vegetarian or vegan. In that same line many vegans will argue it is unnatural to drink the milk of another species as people are the only creatures to intentionally do it. So maybe we should condemn people who drink milk and eat ice cream.

EngEsq,

You obviously cannot understand a logical statement. If A equals B, and not-B equals C, then one cannot argue that A equals C, nor can they argue A equals not-C.

Get it, or do I have to draw pictures?

Whooo, thanks for clearing that up for me. For a minute I thought I was lost but now I can see clearly again through my Rose Colored Glasses. Hey, is that a Pink Unicorn I see holding hands with Nancy Pelosi, and what is that they are saying about following the yellow brick road to San Fransicko.

Whooo, thanks for clearing that up for me. For a minute I thought I was lost but now I can see clearly again through my Rose Colored Glasses

Seriously?! You couldn't follow that?! Lets try again:

If a cat (A) is has fur (B), and not having fur (not-B) means you are not a mammal (C), one cannot inference if a cat (A) is a mammal (not-C) or not a mammal (C) based upon an observation of it having fur. Instead one has to use other rational to determine what the cat is. Make sense now?

The dictionary describes ANY sexual act that is outside of the MISSIONARY position to be Sodomy.

And which dictionary, pray tell, would that be found in?

John from Jacksonville Fl

The dictionary describes ANY sexual act that is outside of the MISSIONARY position to be Sodomy. OK boys and girls, how many of you out there are Sodomites?

Me. Me. Me. Proudly me.

(and my wife).

We gladly do more things that just the missionary positition (in the dark under the covers).

hehehe. And no, I won't tell you the specifics. (Unless you ask very nicely.)

The corporate media and those whom they own in congress do not care if we hate them.. As long as we hate each other.

America's population stands at well over 300 million, not 12 million.

John from Jacksonville Fl:

sod·om·y

   [sod-uh-mee] Show IPA
noun
1.
anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.

2.
copulation with a member of the same sex.

3.
bestiality ( def. 4 ) .

Not that I needed to look it up. Next time, maybe use a dictionary you didn't write yourself. You know, one that's correct.

Who the fook cares? Why is this news worthy? Is this MSN Gay week or something. Is the main editor gay? I've got to wonder. So much gay crap foisted upon us for what? Go away.

Mr Steady, human beings are animals. Get used to the idea.

Enough already. I am so sick of this topic. It is being shoved down our throats.

If you are gay be gay. Cool with me. Just shut up about it already.

My grandmother was once a substitute public school teacher (way back, like the early 1970's). She got into trouble one day while running the class through a science lesson where the students had to place animal stickers under the correct category (turtle under reptile, ant under insect, etc.). When the human sticker came up my grandma instructed the student to place it under "Mammals". This apparently did not go over well with a few religiously conservative parents and my Grandma got into a small amount of trouble.
Humans are mammals (according to the two nips on my chest). Mammals are animals. Ergo Humans are animals. And Gay people are Fabulous! I rest my case.

We are just a branch of the ape family, deal with it.

Naturalistic fallacy - the fallacy that what is natural is good (or what is unnatural is bad).

Many medicines we use are man-made. Are they bad?

Infanticide is found in many species. Does that make it good?

How "natural" something is has no bearing on whether it's morally good or bad. And to believe it does is a logical fallacy.

The claim that homosexuality is natural or unnatural is irrelevant to the conversation of gay marriage or gay rights. Try a new argument there, Mr. Steady.

I am really tired of the animal argument. You can not compare rational humans to irrational animals. Animals also hunt and kill each other for food.

Mr Steady,

First, the "animal argument" was originally brought up by conservatives, like YOU. The anti-gay conservatives first said that it was "unnatural because it does not occur in nature." (They have been using this argument for years.) Proven wrong, your group is not back-tracking on your original point. If you want to blame someone for the "animal argument", blame people like you for bringing it up.

Second, yes... animals hunt and kill each other for food, to survive. Us "rational", advanced humans hunt and kill each other because of different personal beliefs. Plus, the anti-gay conservatives kill people for being gay (it happened recently when a 14 year old killed a gay classmate for being gay, look it up). Yes, that makes us so much better... those "irrational" animals need to stop killing for food and start killing because the orange cat believes in a different God than the grey cat.

On a side note.. here's a question for Christians I've always had.

If it's wrong for two men or two women to be together.. what about people who are born hermaphrodites? Are they not allowed to be with anyone then? Can they pick? Just curious...

Mr. Steady -- Did you say humans were rational? I guess that explains things like warfare, inquisitions, concentration camps, mass murders, and other fine human endeavors. Who cares how consenting adults live their lives. It's not your business nor does it impact your life. Get over it.

About 10% of any Human Population, is either exclusively Homosexual, or Bisexual. Although, there are those that would say that bisexuality is just a rest-stop on the homosexuality-highway. Anyhow....

So, can 30,000,000 U.S. residents be wrong? Could God be that wrong? And I'm neither a homosexual, nor would I want to argue the point with any of them.

Does that leave the taste of a green banana in your mouth? G-o-o-o-o-d.

You can not compare rational humans to irrational animals.

the far right religious conservatives are anything BUT "rational", nothing but fantasy and a strong desire to force their fantasy into everyones life.

the far right religious conservatives are anything BUT "rational", nothing but fantasy and a strong desire to force their fantasy into everyones life.

As a moderate Conservative, I agree with that. Of course, I can say the same about far left liberals with a strong desire to ram their fantasy of a socialist Nanny-state Utopia down everyone's life as well led by the premise of "fairness" and "social justice."

actually 10tacle, I agree, extremism almost always leads to undesirable results.

There are also Christians that are conservative and simply want to be left alone to believe as they want, and I beleive in their right to believe, just not the right to force that belief upon others.

I am just....shocked. Again.

Race, gender, global politics, and the justice system have all had some broad coverage this week and each time the responses just add to the evidence that there is a vocal group of incredibly ignorant - no, let's call it like it is, just plain stupid - people in my country.

I'm a vet, (Marines), raised Baptist (recovering) and still managed to grow up not a bigoted loser preoccupied with things that just don't matter.

To all of you complaining about gays and homosexuality being shoved down your throats (pun intended) maybe if you'd stop voting against equality for gay rights, you'd stop hearing about it! We'd all stop hearing about it as I am sure gay people get tired of being denied healthcare for their spouses at work, the ability to inherit, have final say on a spouses deathbed, adopt, or simply check a damn box on a form.

For all you Jee-zus!-freaks who misquote, misinterpret and plain misuse the bible to foster such arguments as 'It ain't natural', well the bible foster[s]ed slavery, polygamy and ritual sacrifice as inroads to the heavenly afterlife. So think a little bit about those selective interpretations, especially if you're using anything other than the Greek.

The same again for those who think humans are above the animal kingdom somehow. Bubba without his NRA card vs the Kodiak and we'll quickly see whose at the top.

Now this what's natural and what isn't natural BS. By the logic that sex with the same sex is unnatural what you're actually saying is your perfect God made a mistake? A cosmic oops, by infusing the urge to fornicate with one's own sex and form long or short term loving or lustful bonding... the Perfect Creator just went burp and Gays came about?

No disrespect to actual thinking and loving and tolerant Christians, but to this fringe lunatic element, I sincerely hope selective adaptation speeds up its process.

boooooooo

Morpheus-

I logged in just to vote you up! Your comment is very well said and insightful!

I am glad this works for them.

It's not legally binding except in the states where gay marriage is legal.

My sister and I have a great relationship and are deeply in love. So can we get married?

What has your incest got to do with Gay marriage?

Just asking. If it is ok for them to get married is it ok for us? Please answer the question.

Cute. Which is it: mom and dad taught you that same sex couples are at the same level as screwing cousins? Or was it your "faith"?

Why is it a "different level". And it is my sister, not my cousin.

incest is a different arguement than gay marriage, being related to the issue of genetic abnormalities from close relatives. that is why it is a "different level" than gay marraige, which doens't have that issue. duh.

Just asking. If it is ok for them to get married is it ok for us? Please answer the question.

You haven't told me how they are related to one another. Incest is banned on health grounds. Personally I would allow it IF the couple agree to screening resulting pregnancies and foot the bill for medical costs, but I understand why it is banned. If people are stupid enough to swim in a shrinking genetic pool then let them I say.

I fail to see how that relates to gay marriage though, can you tell me how?

Way to avoid my question. Typical. I would really like to know. Ignorance brought down from parents or belief system?

Oh, we aren't planning on having children. After all you gay rights people have made it quite clear in the past that having children is not a prerequisite to getting married. So the health issue is a moot point. So it really is no different than gay marriage, right?

wrong again, mr. steady, since marriages of close relatives can't guarantee that children won't happen and that those children won't have genetic issues. no one plans on having an automobile accident, yet the law requires insurance "just in case".

lol. Fail. again. :)

But before you bring up another rediculous "example", if you and your sister can prove that you are sterile, i'll gladly sign your marriage certificate myself.

but your silly example doesn't prove anything about the GENERAL CONCEPT of why there are laws against incest versus laws on gay marriage. Why you can't understand that is interesting. :)

Wrong again, she already had a hysterectomy.

PHD in insanity, your name befits you. What does procreating have to do with this? So I guess then all sex acts that lead to no children, including those between barren couples or those who choose not to have children are wrong or unnatural? Nice try..old argument that is just silly. Duh.

wrong again mr. steady, I have no problem with infertile close relatives getting married and would cheerfully sign a petition to make it legal if it isn't. But again that has nothing to do with gay marriage.

why you continue to beat this stupid drum escapes me. :)

well if your sister will have you, on the same note i would rather have fun outside my family.

I have no problem with you marrying your sister, so long as both of you legally consent. Doesn't affect my life one bit.

hey ram so does yours so ram that tid bit...

The reasons why incest have been barred is that consent is almost always an issue (almost all incestuous relationships result from deep and longstanding sexual abuses), and for genetic reasons in offspring.

That said, if these issues can be addressed, most pro-gay marriage people would be fine with a brother and sister being married.

Mr.Steady: If she'll have you. Gets you out of the way for everyone else.

Mr.Steady - My sister and I have a great relationship and are deeply in love. So can we get married?

Sounds like you're on a slippery slope to the real problem......straight marriage leads to the incest you prefer, just as straight marriage historically leads to polygamy.

It's another anti-gay freak wanting to try to disrupt things by throwing a curveball and then demanding an answer that has nothing to do with gay marriage.

Mr.Steady - gay marriage has nothing to do with incest, bestiality, pedophelia or any other concern you may have. (it's proven to be so, so you don't need to go there).

With incest, you often are in a situation where there is undue influence being utilized by one person over the other -or- you have an underage person. In both of those cases, there cannot be legal consent given. Therefore it should remain illegal for those scenarios.

In other incest scenarios where legal consent is possible, there are many other concerns that are obvious (some have been discussed here), and if enough people desire this to be legal, they can push it forward and see if they can get enough support for it. I don't see where it's possible to get such support from society today or even in the near future. In many places in Europe, the laws against incest are reportedly much looser than they are here. Right or wrong? I don't really know.

So you can take your distration attempt and go elsewhere. You can't distract people from the real issue - and those who are against gay marriage are losing to the fact that preventing it is against the Constitutional guarantee of equal protection under the law.

Sounds as if someone here likes to pump-kin on Halloween.

Mr. Steady,

In parts of West Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee you can marry your sister.

Just like you can have multiple wives in parts of Utah, Montana, and Idaho if you wanted to so Mr. Steady.

I figured this would be a far more religious debate than scientific. hahahahaha

Gay marriage should be Federally recognized if you ask me.

PatsFan4Life - In parts of West Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee you can marry your sister.

Just like you can have multiple wives in parts of Utah, Montana, and Idaho if you wanted to so Mr. Steady.

False on all points.

Saying gay marriage is the same as incest is kind of like saying eating a hamburger is the same as eating a baby. I mean, if you're going to say it's OK to eat one type of meat, then we can eat ALL of them right? Horse, dog, cat, toddler--some of them maybe even healthier than beef. Hell, I've heard if you get a kid into a roasting pan at eight months it the best kind of meat in the world--tender muscle development but not strong enough to push the over door open from inside.

See where your slippery slope goes now?

Mr Steady is implying that gay sex leads to incest. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, our sexuality is not taught by example, it's hard wired into our bodies before we leave the womb. Incest with an unwilling child is a heinous crime. Incest between consenting adults is no ones business but the adults involved. I do not buy the idea that people have a different moral standards, have none, and will eventually sink into willful harmful conduct.

Actually, given that I assume from the Mr. in his name means he's male and his sister is female.. Mr. Steady is actually implying that heterosexual relationship lead to incest. Perhaps we should outlaw heterosexual acts. ;)

This thing has gotten off-track. For starters, the guy who asked about marrying his sister could have said a sheep or a chimpanzee, anything to throw the discussion into a waste of time. And the other individual's comment about unnatural sexual relations? File this stuff under Hopeless.

The issue is rights.

Mr. Steady: You're being glib and thus, deserve a glib answer. But we'll spare you that, and address your question directly, with a model animal, of the same family as Human. Chimpanzee apes.

Yes, the Common Chimpanzee (Pan Troglodyte), is a great example: In the wild, chimps have the opportunity to mate with any other chimpanzee, both inside and outside the group. But they don't engage in incest. Pick up your copy of Jane Goodall's "Through A Window." Inside the book, you'll learn that the common chimp, like all apes, seem to have a distinct disgust toward incest. Mother chimps in study, appear to run away screaming from the very, very rare occasion of what Humans (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) call incest. Sometimes beating on that very rare sexual aggressor. And the beaten ape will never forget it. Once is enough. They even avoid close cousins.

On the other hand, the Common Chimpanzee engages in homosexual behavior, and without confrontation, shame, or second glances. The Bonobo Chimpanzee (Pan Paniscus), gets way more than it's share of one-on-one; same-sex is on the daily menu, and no holds are barred.

Humans are part of that same Great Ape Family. We for the most part share in the other chimp's disgust at incest. Have you ever heard a bad kiss referred to as, "It felt like I kissed my brother!"

But it would seem that when Mr. Fun meets Mr. Right, Humans must go to a book reference to find out of it is okay to move forward......and that's because it is natural Human behavior to engage in homosexual behaviors.

Don't deny it. You want to. So, if anybody (other than your sister) will have you, then do it.

And I have no problem with what you and your sister do behind closed doors, or in public, for that matter.

Mr Steady why shouldn't you be the only one who has not had sex with her...go ahead...the resst of us already did. (BTW she was not very good, kinda like a car driving through a very large tunnel.) Someone needs to make an honest woman of her....

She reminds me oif Atlantas Hartsfield Airport...everyone has landed there once

1. I know an awful lot of heterosexuals that engage in unnatural sex acts. FREAKS, but that is still their business. 2. I love when people who aren't gay explain what being gay is like or about. We wouldn't find it acceptable for a 21 y/o old white male to explain the view point of an 80 y/o black female on the subject of civil rights.

Gay marriage has NOTHING to do with the following.

1. Incest

2. Pedophilia

3. Polygamy

4. Beastiality

Understand ? They have NOTHING to do with GAY people and consentual adult gay sex. You anti gay marriage people always try the same cr@p. You did it when people of different races wanted the right to wed and your doing it now. BTW the world did not end when people of different races where allowed to marry. The world did not end when Truman integrated the armed forces. It did not end when women were allowed to vote. It did not end when black voting rights were strengthened. etc etc etc And it won't end now that gays can openly serve in the military.

I love how you guys think sibling marriage shouldn't be allowed, yet you promote the nasty lifestyle of homosexuality (I have rights, just because I think homosexuality is disgusting, in some levels, doesn't mean I hate those people, don't try to impose your hypocrisy, opinions and stupidity on me).

I also love how you guys are trying to shove religion into this.

Who cares if the person is religious or not, people have a right to their opinion, no matter how wrong or right, fair or bigoted it is. Feel free to disagree with me, ignore me, insult me, whatever. I wouldn't, and couldn't give a bigger damn. As long as you don't influence or change my views, I'm OK with it.

Like “most” species humans evolve through the mixing of genes, and need to adapt to their environment. The requirement for adaptation to occur is a male and female and the copulation that transpires between them. If you believe in this then perhaps you are an evolutionist or acknowledge that humans have the potential to evolve. It is feasible that homosexuals are creationists since their evolution just seems to happen without the need for “natural” mating, or perhaps they are a hybrid species of homo-sapiens which just spontaneously appear. It is also possible that there may be a mutant gene that is developing in an effort to kill off the human race, as it is known to be an invasive species, and Mother Nature always finds a way to thin out those that crowd her bosom. So in theory a threat to the human race could be this so-called gay gene. This gene would need to be identified and isolated to protect the species. Natural humans (the ones who wish their DNA to extend down to future generations) should be given the opportunity to vaccinate their children and/or receive some form of inoculation that neutralizes this gene from being passed on to their offspring. Perhaps we could take a page out of Stan Lee’s X-men and have a voluntary gay registration that presents the opportunity for homosexuals to volunteer for a cure. We could call this program the Gay Registration Act, but unlike Marvel we will “not” utilize Sentinels (those big giant robots) to round up gays because that would be inhumane. If you are born gay then there must be a cure to solve this affliction that is affecting you. This cure must be made available to parents wishing their children to pass on the genetics and carry on the family’s DNA. It’s called a choice, and everyone should have the right to choose to terminate or cure a potential mutant homosexual gene from infecting their children.

12 mil?? I thought the population of the U.S. was just over 200 Mil. NYC has 8Mil, so the whole rest of the country only has 4M?!? Check you numbers. therefore given the 1.2Mil couples was it?, that would be more like 0.001%.

@wbirmingham

I'm gay and we are freaks. There are even gays trying to ESCAPE homosexuality. Wake up, Wake up, Wake up!!

socialist

If there is anything "good" about you you have failed to reveal it. What you write is not only hateful, it is illogical.

@don

Of course I have failed to reveal any good about me. This isn't Facebook, I don't post my everyday activites. Plus, am I dumb and hateful just because I don't like or support homosexuality?

Homosexual supporters are enjoying, and in some cases abusing their rights, but it also seems like those who don't support homosexuality have no rights whatsoever to express themselves.

Where did my rights go? Why am I being publicly disencourage becuase I think homosexuality is nasty? I respect your beliefs, but I also have my own beliefs, and I wish that the other side can respect my beliefs too, just like I respect theirs. I'm not trying to convince people that their opinions are wrong, yet they do it to me.

If I don't like homosexuality, I just don't like it. Is there a correct answer to all thoughts? If there is, please let me see the answers, because I didn't know our liberties were limited inside our mind.

Out for Me: You must be joking. Nobody is that ignorant. But just to be sure, here is your answer....

Homosexual folk's give birth to children everyday of the year. Sometimes through artificial insemination (you're a big fan of Science. I can tell.), and sometimes through sex with an opposite sex partner. Some even get married in the mistaken belief that having a family for the parent's sake, trumps happiness. Some of them are my very best friends, too.

Now about that gay gene.....hmmmmm. Off-the-path genes often carry something with them that benefits the Human Race. Just like left-handed (creative, artistic, right-brained), Gay folks have their own special gifts to be appreciated by all, too. It is unfortunate that you would see those improvements, on schedule by Mother Nature, to be killed off.

I'd call your attitude, "Eugenics," in any forum of open discussion.

I'm heterosexual. I'm married. I'm a Republican. I am a Catholic. But one thing that I cannot lay claim to is thinking like too many. Remember that ignorance can be schooled, but stupid is to the bone.

vermontguy

incest is a different arguement than gay marriage, being related to the issue of genetic abnormalities from close relatives. that is why it is a "different level" than gay marraige, which doens't have that issue. duh.

i dont want to put words in your mouth, but from your statement regarding Mr. Steady Statements, your saying that genetic code is what makes incest different than gay marriage. So what if the couple never have sex ? Or want to, they dont because they know that genetic consequence. You speculating that incest MAN and WOMAN will be having sex. It could be just as simple as Brother Marrying Brother, they can have all the sex they want, and never have to worry about getting pregnant.

so you see Vermont guy, Mr Steady does have a Valid point. If the boundaries of Marriage One guy , one woman is being redefined, or not defined at all, then what really matters is Love. So Brother and sister can marry , and have sex, just dont have kids. Brother and Brother can get married and have sex and not worry about having kids. While your at it, We can marry our animals too, because were just higher forms of animal intelligence then our ancestors right ? Why not ?

Donald Price: Wow, isn't this a twist. I'm a staunch conservative, and I don't believe gays are "freaks". But since you are gay, I'd really like your input on this, if you don't mind changing topics just a bit here.

I was just having a really long discussion with a couple of other gay supporters on another thread. It was about gays in the military. I made it clear to them that I have no problem with gays serving openly in the military.

But, as a straight man, I also made it clear that the one area where I did have a problem was straight men essentially being forced to expose themselves to gay men at times.

I need the answer to this question: From a biological standpoint, can you as a gay man, discern ANY difference in the fact that you are physically attracted to other men, as opposed to straight men who are attracted to women.

From a biological standpoint, NOT A GENDER standpoint, can you describe or outline any difference at all??

My argument with them was that a gay man, in say a boot camp setting, with open showers, would essentially be permitted to view the objects of their attraction. My comparative example was that it was just like men being able to shower with women.

They couldn't get that, at least from my perspective, and from a biological sexual attraction standpoint, there is no difference. And yet, they naturally defend the separation of men and women, but have no problem with gays and straights together, and essentially felt that any man who wasn't willing to openly expose himself to a gay man was a wimp. I just don't buy that, just as I don't buy any woman who is not willing to openly expose herself to another man, is somehow less of a woman.

So my proposition was that if there were any straight men in the military who were uncomfortable with that, that there be some provision for separation, just as between men and women.

So, I would really appreciate a perspective from a gay man on this if you're willing to discuss it. If I'm way off base in my thinking please explain why.

ConservativeNotRepublican

Donald Price: Wow, isn't this a twist. I'm a staunch conservative, and I don't believe gays are "freaks". But since you are gay, I'd really like your input on this, if you don't mind changing topics just a bit here.

FYI, he's not gay, he's a straight homophobe.

aliveinsd - I was with you all the way until the last paragraph. Before you insult just hit the pause button and rephrase it. There are different schools people belong to and they have their own thoughts and derive their own conclusions. Not all ignorant can go to your school and come out enlightened.

Also the issue of giving birth and having or not having child was brought in by someone way up in the thread when the whole thing was off topic. I would first learn to disagree with civility before attempting to go to school.

aliveinsd,

I think you made Out for Me's point for them. Homosexuals cannot procreate without some form of outside assistance. While I think most of Out for Me's comment was completely off the wall...they were correct in regards to that.

The rest of their post was totally bizarre though.

Sorry Out for Me, but being gay is NOT a choice. I'm heterosexual and I know THAT isn't a choice. I certainly don't remember ever thinking "Hmmmmm I think I'd rather choose to have sex with women than with men." Nope, never even thought about it. I just liked women instead of men.

Homosexuals don't CHOOSE to be gay. They simply are.

Seriously, considering how much ignorance and hatred is directed towards them, why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay? Maybe if you're clinically insane or just like going through life with a great big target on your back.

I am glad to see them finally starting to receive rights that they deserve to have under the law. I knew people in the military who were gay and they would talk to me about how they feared being found out. I can think of few things more tragic than wanting to serve your country so much, and yet at the same time having to live in fear of losing that uniform just because of who you love.

I am not a big fan of President Obama and I disagree with the man on many issues, but I honestly and sincerely thank him for helping to put an end to the absurd and morally bankrupt policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

aliveinsd,

Here are the possibilities:

A) Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice

B) Homosexuality is a genetic chemical imbalance

C) Homosexuality is a genetic mutation

Whatever the case may be there is either a treatment (counseling, intervention, etc.) cure (preventive medicine, vaccine, etc.) or there is the possibility the gene can be identified and the parents can choose to terminate the pregnancy if they so choose to do so, because it is their choice. As far as religion, Catholics were/are the most irrational sub segment of Christianity due to the evils found within their past and present. Most of the Anti-Christian world despises the evil that Catholics have brought upon the Christian faith whether through genocide throughout the Middle Ages, Slavery, and/or sexual abuse atrocities. Never liked Catholics. Religion can be a dangerous tool, but the studying of chemical imbalances and flawed genetics as well as character flaws to give parents a choice (remember it’s not your decision nor is it your body) could be considered acceptable if the appropriate verbiage was used to…address concerns.

Thank you for suggesting I was stupid. I do understand that your parents may have forgotten to teach how to talk to people who view things differently than you do. Oh that's right you're Catholic...nevermind.

Out for Me: If science ever discovers a genetic marker for homosexuality, and people start having abortions for that reason alone, you'll see the left doing all kinds of mental contortions and twists of logic to prevent those abortions from happening, while demanding that all others be allowed to continue.

It's always the unintended consequences that jump up and bite you in the ass.

Conservativenotrepublican,

I understand your concerns. A wise old man once told me that “Pandora’s Box is a Mutha Phucka n that dat b@tch shouldn’t be opened”. Well it has been opened and since it is legal to end life, why shouldn’t it be legal to make life better, more efficient, more productive, more intelligent, more beautiful, more athletic, more disease resistant. How can one family be allowed to terminate a life, while another (who may be plagued with genetic ailments, or be unable to conceive) not be allowed to have the perfect baby. This is discriminatory against those who wish the best for their family.

Juliop,

Excellent question--but you will probably not get a response...because the truth hurts.

@ConservativeNotRepublican

From a biological standpoint I see many differences in the fact that I am physically attracted to other men, as opposed to straight men who are attracted to women because their attraction is natural. Homosexuals can control their desires and sexual urges toward the same-sex they choose not too for a variety of reasons. I personally chose my sexual orientation because I enjoyed a pervert. I have seen more than enough within homosexuality too confidentially say there is nothing "natural" about homosexuality and it is definitely a perversion.

You Can't Handle The Truth,

Wow, you're not much of a homophobe are you? Think you could be a little more rude in your commentary? And yes, you ARE a hater. Your entire commentary is nothing but rude, insulting and outright hateful. At no point do you even remotely attempt to engage in a polite, intelligent discussion.

Come back when you actually have something intelligent to say. You aren't even worth replying to otherwise.

@juliop-4101035

Yes, I am referring to homosexuality as a perversion as it is outside the norm of human sexuality. I think a male was ultimately created for a female and if Nature wanted gay men too not procreate naturally then Nature wouldn't have given them the ability too procreate naturally.

OK I swore up & down I would never post on the MSNBC mess again, but....aaarrrggggghhhh I just can't let this one slide!

But, as a straight man, I also made it clear that the one area where I did have a problem was straight men essentially being forced to expose themselves to gay men at times.

Are you kidding me?

You have been *exposed* to gay males all of your life!

• The curious kid peeping under the stall door while you were taking a dump in kindergarten was gay.
• The kid standing next to you at the urinal in 2nd gr was gay.
• 1 or 2 of the Cub Scouts w/ whom you went camping & shared a tent & changed clothes in front of were gay.
• Some of the boys at the public pool where you got in & out of your bathing suit were gay.
• Several of the guys showering w/ you after gym &/or sports practice in MS, HS, & college were gay.
• Some of the guys sitting around naked or in towels in the sauna or locker rm at your gym are gay.
• They say 1 out of every 10 males is gay. If you're in a nudity situation w/ 11 guys, chances are at least 1 of em is gay.

In short, you have been unwittingly *exposing* Wee Willie Winkie there to gay males from the 1st moment you entered into any sort of communal bathrm, changing area, or locker rm.

Now, let me ask you this....in all of those yrs & w/ all these *exposures*, has any of the following ever happened to you:

• Was anyone eyeing your Johnson w/ a spark of lust in their gaze?
• Did they compliment your package & comment that it drove them insane w/ lust just looking at it?
• Has anyone ever just reached over & begun pumping Petey up w/ his fist just b/c it was there?
• Did anyone ever slam you up against a tiled wall & start thrusting his tongue down your throat whilst gyrating against your incredibly alluring (I'm thinking you think it is, since you're so worried about *exposure*) big boy?
• Did anyone ever slam you up against a tiled wall & begin gyrating against your incredibly alluring (see above) cheeks?
• Anyone threaten you w/ a speculum, a gerbil, a Coke bottle, a Barbie doll, or a straw? (since this seems to be such a popular *urban legend*)
• Did anyone drop the soap, ask you to pick it up, & fall upon your backside in a frenzy of mad carnality, having his way w/ you in a froth of santorum?
• Did he call all his buddies over to gang-bang you when he was thru, putting you in the hosp, rendering you unable to walk for a mo, wrecking your rectum, & causing you to undergo emergency surgery to fix it?
• Has anyone even given you a once-over, & said hey babe you're cute wanna go to the gay club w/ me on Saturday nite?

No?

Then what the @!$%# makes you think the mere sight of your pride & joy is going to have every gay man for miles lining up to brawl over which of them gets to drop to his knees & give you oral pleasure?

Seriously, if you walked into a co-ed shower & saw a naked woman, would you be groping her bosom, making lewd comments, grabbing her crotch, throwing her to floor & savagely raping her?

So what the @!$%# makes you think gay males lack self-control & are going to pounce on all the *straight* guys, now that they can *tell*?

I seriously think all the men who are so *comfortable* w/ being naked around other men....unless they know they're gay, then they suddenly become *uncomfortable* b/c apparently they think they're God's gift to both sexes & are in imminent fear of not just unwanted advances, but outright sexual attack by roving gangs of gay predators....are either closeted, bi, or bi-curious. Or just have a really inflated sense of how damned hot they are LOL

I mean, what do you think when you see an attractive (clothed) female who meets your criteria for *hot chick*? You make a little mental remark to yourself like nice boobs or great ass.

Guess what? Gay men have been making the same sort of observations about you for yrs, whether clothed or unclothed.

But since they're not hitting on you 24/7 & you're not beating the gay off w/ a stick, I kinda doubt you're their type, & on the slim chance you might be, their *gaydar* is telling them you're *straight* & not worth the effort. Or how 'bout this one, they're in a committed relationship & don't cheat, like a *normal* husband/wife would?

Some straight men like blondes & wouldn't hit on a brunette. Hey, yknow what, gay men have that sort of criteria, too! You are not attractive to everyone you meet, whether male or female. That's just how it is.

Maybe they're chubby chasers & you're skinny as a rail. Maybe they go for older men & you're too young. Maybe they like hair & you're bald. Maybe they want someone w/ a 6-pack & you've pounded down a few cases of beer too many for their liking. Maybe they're looking for a sugar daddy & can tell by how your dress or what sort of car you drive that you have no $. There are lots of reasons why your bones don't get constantly jumped by either gender, sorry to inform you.

There are not going to be orgies in military barracks just b/c the guys everyone already probably suspects are gay come out & say so.

Except, of course, in the lurid sexual fantasies of those who *wonder* about such things on public msg boards.

Really....you're not that hot, they really don't want you, & they have been looking at your Precious for yrs now & walking away b/c you're not their type & it doesn't turn them on.

Deal w/ it. Jeez.

So my proposition was that if there were any straight men in the military who were uncomfortable with that, that there be some provision for separation, just as between men and women.

We did that once already. It was called "segregation". In South Africa it was called "apartheid". It was ruled to be a discriminatory practice. Ppl who were *uncomfortable* being in the same housing & bathrms as black soldiers had to suck it up & deal w/ it, or leave the military if they couldn't.

Forcing segregation would simply be going right back to DADT. No one is going to volunteer to be singled out & treated differently from everyone else for something over which they have no control.

That's the entire pt of gay rights. Like it was the pt of women's rights. And civil rights. They should not be treated differently b/c they're born *different* from others. They can't *help* being gay any more than anyone else can help being born female, black, Native American, Asian, Hispanic, whatever.

We already know segregation is not the ans & that all human beings deserve the same basic rights.

Who cares what ppl do in their own BRs? How does it *affect* you?

It doesn't.

^^^ The winner of this post

Wade, Tampa Florida where did you get that information from ? "Your hard wired with it before we leave the womb " are you freakin' kidding me !!!! Their is not one bit of concrete scientific proof that being a homosexual person comes from your Mothers or Fathers DNA or you were homosexual while in the womb. Being a homosexual person is a LIFE CHOICE no ifs, ands, or buts !!! No pun intented.

I get tired of hearing someone claim " I always knew I was a woman in a mans body and/or "I always knew I was a man in a womans body" it's about CHOICE not GENETICS, Wade !!!!

As for you all who are so engrossed with number crunching, forget the math who really cares how many homosexuals their are in the United States or anywhere else on this Earth. The only thing that matters is that were all Human Beings and that we all have to learn to live on this Earth together free of hatred, jealousy, deceit and contempt for one another regardless of the status quo.

And for Petes sake !!! All of you who made the choice to be Gay or Lesbian, quit rocking the boat about civil rights, their's enough problems on this Earth that need to be resolved and your complaining about the right to be legally married in any State !! That is so DUH that the ACLU won't bother with it, IT IS an issue NOT of IMPORTANCE. Senators and Congressmen are having illict affairs and skimming money from tax payers while in Office, tell me how does the issue of homosexual marriage make anything less of a burden of what's happening on this Earth; that it needs to take presidence over everything else and be addressed immediately by President Obama and Congress? HUH !!!

A LIFE PARTNERS FRINGE BENEFITS IS THAT ALL !!! SO YOUR BOTH NOT PAYING FOR THEM SEPARATELY FROM EACH OTHERS JOBS !!! This is what started the whole homosexual civil rights BS in the first place people !!!!!!! If I'm married to a same sex person I want the same rights that straight couples get after they get married. Sorry, it just doesn't change because you want to marry someone of the same sex so one of you can quit your job or save money on fringe benefits from each others jobs into one payment or you both can continue working your job without reprisal from the company you work for and only one of you be responsible for paying for the fringe benefits from one your jobs, unless the insurance your company carries deems that to be illegal and won't allow it. And complain about living in the same State and not being able to get married legally because their's no law allowing two people of the same sex to get married in that State. Quit Biatching, your both living together anyway no matter what anybody says.

juliop,

Is there some point to your rambling commentary?

I could care less if someone is explicit. I have a problem with rudeness though. Only the ignorant and the immature go out of their way to be rude and hateful towards people they don't even know.

As for gay porn, why would I be interested in gay porn? I already stated earlier that I'm straight. If you have a reading comprehension problem, I'm sorry but that's your problem.

You obviously don't like gays. Your earlier comments, as well as the comment above, strongly indicate that. Again, that's your problem. As for the "real" definition of the word homophobia, that's a point of debate best left to those who are far more experienced in linguistics than you and I are.

The bottom line is very simple. Gays and lesbians are people. Because they are people, they are ENTITLED to the same protections and benefits under that law as everybody else. To claim otherwise is to advocate discrimination and bigotry.

Sure, Mr. Steady, marry your sister. The no-close relatives thing is all about inbreeding and bad genetics. If you aren't having kids, as you say, go ahead. Under unnatural sexual acts, you forgot about the televangelists that are screwing their staffers, congregants, prostitutes, probably little boys, too. It's unnatural for self-professed men of God to be breaking commandments like that, and, oh, making millions of dollars as well. We're Only In It For The Money.

Jesus is not going to like this one bit. No sir, not one bit.

LMAO Juliop, you poor schmuck, you obviously don't know the history of "marriage". You can have your own interpretation of it if you chose, but legally, same sex marriage will be legal and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that fact. DOMA is uncostitutional and nothing in your sad little twisted version of religion/reality will be able to change that. Even in the religious circles, homophobes are the minority. Rational people understand that sexuality is NOT a choice and will support the repeal of DOMA. And to the comment about soldiers sharing a shower with a gay soldier, I assure you, I was not interested in the what the other guys had going on downstairs when I was showering. Furthermore outside an IADT/training environment most shower facilities have stalls. I was open about my sexuality when I was in the Army, most of the guys were more comfortable that I was open about it and none of them were concerned that I would "check them out" any more than their straight buddies would. Nice try with the attempt to paint homosexuals as predators tho, since we all know most crimes of a sexual nature (even percentage wise per capita) are perpetrated by heterosexual men.

DesertBlue

Sure, Mr. Steady, marry your sister. The no-close relatives thing is all about inbreeding and bad genetics. If you aren't having kids, as you say, go ahead. Under unnatural sexual acts, you forgot about the televangelists that are screwing their staffers, congregants, prostitutes, probably little boys, too. It's unnatural for self-professed men of God to be breaking commandments like that, and, oh, making millions of dollars as well. We're Only In It For The Money.

Desert blue how quick you are to attack a religious point of view. Yes you can say the religious people do all those wicked things you say.. but wait, they are not the only ones. Hetero and gay atheists do it, hetero and gay muslims do it, hetero and gay hindus do it, hetero and gay bhuddists do it.. or how about hetero and gay young teens doing it also, or old people. My point is ANYONE and EVERYONE is capable of doing such acts. How quick you are to label and point out Christians.. Like they are perfect and incapable of doing such acts. You should be questioning " are they truly christians ?" Doesnt sound like to me they are. So watch the spotlighting on one type of people.

As for marrying close relatives. Yup I agree genetics is why we dont do it. Brother and sister having offspring would be bad. However, what if brother and sister used condoms ? Birth Control ? What if it was Brother and brother or Sister and sister that wanted to marry .. they cant have offspring. Would it be wrong then that they marry ? I mean they wont be hurting anyone or anything because they are not having offspring. Who are you now to judge their love for each other ? Are you becoming one of us who oppose gay marriage ?

Do you see my point of argument ? If society deems gays can marry because they love each other, then its allowed, then why stop there ? If we try to stop Brother and sister marrying because we say its gentics. All your doing is showing YOU have a moral view on marriage, and YOU have some set boundaries on marriage. YOU are no different from people who are against gay marriage.

Im in no way for close relative marriage, but my point is made.

Scar: Hate to bust your bubble, but the answers to your first and last questions are a "yes".

Being in the music industry, and having played my fair share of bars over the years, I have been approached on more than one occasion by gay men. So, maybe it's only anecdotal experience, but there is nothing that prevents me from believing that being in the military is going to somehow prevent that attraction which is natural for gays, to suddenly disappear.

The fact of the matter is that gay men can be, and indeed are attracted to straight men, just as I can be attracted to a lesbian. That doesn't mean the lesbian wants me to be taking a shower with her just because she might not be attracted to me.

And we still have that segregation between men and women. No one seems to have problem with that. Everyone seems to be able to understand the reason for that.

I'm just applying that exact same logic to the biological sexual attraction of gays. It's the exact same in my book. But liberals, in their ultimate desire to gain acceptance of everyone for gays, are willing to force those who have no desire to be in confined quarters where nudity is required, to tell them, "hey that's tough, you're just going to have to live with it.

As long as I can take a shower with the women, I have no problem with that. All I'm asking is that the logic be applied consistently and equally.

julioip stated:

You are going to come into my home and tell me that MY MARRIAGE IS THE SAME AS THE MARRIAGE AS BETWEEN TWO MEN?

So, because your feeling might be hurt, and you are so insecure in your marriage, you wish to deny rights to your fellow citizens?!? That is what I'm getting from you. The same thing was said when interracial marriage was protected, and it was wrong then too.

PS, when other people cheat, divorce, or marry different races, genders or nationalities it doesn't effect my happy straight marriage one bit. How can someone else hurt your marriage? Only you or your wife can do that.

@juliop-4101035

We don't know if Human Beings practing homosexuality has any relevancy to animals. A.) Animals practice homosexuality when they are confined in tight quarters, the same as men in prison. There are animals whom are let out into the wild from captivity. B.) Animals may have started practicing homosexuality AFTER humans started doing it. (example: Monkey see, Monkey do.)

Furthermore, We ALL are on the planet earth from 1 heterosexual act and 0 homosexual acts. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what nature's INTENDED purpose was/is/always will be for human beings. This is about Nature's Iintentions not Personal intentions. I choose to be gay and I can admit that it is not natural it is something that I chose and continue to choose because i enjoy being a pervert. Are you suggesting now with this physical proof that some gay men choose homosexuality and others are born into homosexuality. Ummmmm No!! We ALL subconsciously or consciously chose homosexuality based upon environmental factors

Thank you for the back-handed support, but you still don't seem to get it:

• Homosexuals are born, and not made.
• It is no more a choice than for a lefthanded person.
• Homosexuality is not a mental illness, thus according to the American Psychiatric Board. And that has been the case for about 2-decades time.
• Homosexuals can and do have children through the usual channels.
• Artificial insemination is now a usual channel, commonly used by heterosexual folks that cannot, or will not, reproduce in what you call the usual channels.
• And if you still don't compute, well, my statement holds truth. Ignorance can be taught, but stupid is to the bone.
• Homosexuals aren't sad or unhappy. They're way happier than any heterosexuals that I have been acquainted with, including myself.

Confucius: If I give a man one corner of a handkerchief, and he cannot return the other three corners to me, then I have nothing more to say to that man.

You see, if the man cannot complete the puzzle himself, then he is either stupid or he has no desire to learn. I'm not intending to be rude, but simply informative.

@aliveinsd

With all due respect

Homosexuals are born, Pedophiles are born but Nature's INTENDED purpose as/is/always will be for human beings to procreate naturally(unless born with a birth defect). When Nature is creating a human body homosexuality is not a part of the blueprint due to there being no gay gene that exist. We are not speaking about personal intentions we are speaking about Nature's intentions.

Left-Handed and Homosexuality are 2 completely different things. Bad analogy.

Homosexuality is not a mental illness. Again, it is a subconscious or conscious CHOICE based upon environmental factors.

Homosexuals can't naturally reproduce with the same-sex. Naturally it simply is IMPOSSIBLE!!

Of course Homosexuals aren't sad or unhappy. Some homosexuals live very happy lives just like pedophiles live very happy lives(google: NAMBLA). Just because something feels good doesn't mean it's ok.

Confucius: If I give a man one corner of a handkerchief, and he cannot return the other three corners to me, then I have nothing more to say to that man. (or woman)

Bad dog, my what an education I can get from using the words hard wired. What else do you call the creation of the nervous, and endocrine, systems, and the limited number instincts babies are born with, except to call it hard wiring. In all your verbage I did not see a credible counter to my hypothesis. Posts like yours make me think my hypothesis is actually credible.

Bingo. ;)

Made a mistake. I was doing some other math and got my numbers mixed up. The population was a typo.

lol, a whole lotta more people are engaging in all kinds of unnatural sexual relations mr. steady. So what? This is america where you are legally allowed to be "unnatural" all you want.

Well Mr. Steady, if your total population was a typo than what about the percentage you came up with. Last time I checked 1,292,928 into 12,000,000 would be more in the area of 10% not 1%.

I'll refer to the first comment in this thread. "Conclusive proof that intelligence and a propensity for bigotry are negatively correlated?"

Enjoy your narrow viewed vision on life.....

Steady, since that many people are in committed relationships and having sex with each other if they choose to, no one is harming anyone, it is legal, and it is none of your business, is it at all possible that you might one day realize that perhaps your idea of unnatural was inflicted upon you by people who seriously have no clue what they are talking about and just want to further their own personal beliefs?

Nah...probably not, but one can hope...lol. Guess you wouldn't understand that sexual preference variations are natural among a population...nah, didn't think so. Oh, and you are an animal too, whether you like it or not:)

You're both. You are an animal. Just an animal that is much more intelligent than the others on Earth.

"I am much more intelligent than any animal."

Unfortunately, you aren't intelligent enough to know what an animal is. I recommend 6th grade biology for a brief refresher, though I'm not confident you've completed the required prerequisites.

"I am much more intelligent than any animal."

Really? I haven't seen one shred of evidence of your mental superiority to the potted plant next to me.

Mr. Steady,

That 12 Million for the US population...that mix up in the calculations. You were calculating something else. Please enlighten us!

Again, Mr.steady illustrates the perils of inbreeding.

For someone who is 'not an animal' you sure are a jackass.

Madmax, or worse look what was in the White House 2000 to 2008!

Oh, and you are an animal too, whether you like it or not:)

Now, now. You should know that the definition of "animal" you're using comes from science books, which Steady clearly has no interest or belief in while using electronics to get his message across.

Mr Steady,

Go for it. I's not going to affect any of us. Send a nice picture.

The mindset of Mr.Steady Is AWESOME!!!

Hit every post with High velocity accuracy.

People are saying animals have same sex relationship, hahhaah thats funny. i always thought we were above the animal race. Well at least i am!

Sure. No one said anyone had to live or agree with a lifestyle s/he didn't want to, but that isn't an excuse to take others' rights away.

Being born Gay is not a life style. And you might notice where I said the Constitution guarantees equal rights for all.

Why do you make for an argument where there is none.

If the constitution guarantees that any two people who love each other can marry then why can't I marry my cousin or my niece?

Watermoon - why can't I marry my cousin or my niece?

You can in the bible belt.

Watermoon,

You can...it West Virginia, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Tennessee.

don't forget Utah and Texas (where the Jeffries clan was)

Dick, (can i call you Dick, Richard is so formal). Excellent post; brief and to the point. Homosexuals are American citizens and entitled to the same rights as people who prefer new and exciting genitalia.

Watermoon, At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Funny I thought the Constitution guaranteed equal protection under the law and the pursuit of life, liberty. and happiness.

The Constitution says nothing about gay marriage. The Constitution is a very specific document with specific enumerated powers as to what the scope of the federal government is to be. See Article 1, section 8.

It also contains a very specific method for allowing the document to be changed.

James Madison, in the Federalist papers numbers 41-43, forcefully argued as to why the Constitution means what it says, and is limited to ONLY those things outlined in the document.

Since neither marriage or gay marriage is covered, it is relegated to the 10th amendment and falls under those powers delegated to the several states. (That's also what will be the undoing of Obamacare, but that's another thread)

You may not like or agree with that, but it can be proven and verified by the fact that the issue has been, and continues to be considered on a state by state basis.

Most likely, the only way it will be made a national issue is if you can get enough support for a constitutional amendment.

ConservativeNotRepublican is correct in every word that he says. The 10th amendment takes precedence. No Federal law should touch this issue, like it shouldn't touch health care or the countless others that our federal gvt has barged its way into. Our founding father's were men of great prescience who pondered on the creation of undeniable civil liberties. Can we please stop @!$%#ting on their legacy?

richard i hate to burst your bubble but nobody is BORN GAY, i dont care what doctors have said they are moron and gay themselves, they dont want to be branded as a mental problem, nobody does.

But nobody is born GAY get that straight okay. oh wait you cant.

but realize this NOBODY IS BORN GAY!!!

dont be a moron. its showing!

Sloppyjoes,

So, the doctors are morons and you're the smart one? So tell me, exactly how many medical degrees do you have? How extensive has been your scientific research into what EXACTLY causes a person to be gay? Ah ah ah, don't say it's a choice, because logically that would mean that being straight is also a choice.

Nevermind. Your comments prove that the truly ignorant one on this post is you. Try not to choke on all that hate now. It's unhealthy.

Nancy Cato,

I saw nothing that said the drones could marry other drones and continue to be a burden on the species.

If you are going to say something like this that is specifically designed to incite anger, then you need to explain exactly how homosexuals are a burden on the species. It is not like they do not carry a greater tax burden or contribute greatly to society, or that the world population is fast approaching 7 BILLION!!!

Please, give us proof.

Most likely, the only way it will be made a national issue is if you can get enough support for a constitutional amendment.

And the Constitution was amended for the rights of blacks & women. It hasn't even been 100 yrs since women were *allowed* to vote in the US (other *civilized* countries, like New Zealand, beat us to it). It's not quite 160 yrs since blacks were not considere *people* at all.

If we can have amendments & legislation at the nat'l level to correct those ridiculous behaviors, then we can also have them for LGBT folk.

Sloppyjoes,

You’re so adamant about people not being born gay, then you certainly must understand that by your own hypothesis people are not born straight either.

ConservativeNotRepublican, what is your though on Madison's Federalist no. 10? It is a particularly curious writing considering the present political climate. Particularly guarding against factions and groups organized to deny the rights of others.

In the past decade the majority opinion has swung tremendously towards supporting the rights of our homosexual brethren and sisters. Gay marriage, civil unions, and they like are about the right to have their relationships recognized under the law. This is a right most of America has come to support.

The opposition to recognizing gay relationships under the law is simple bigotry certain factions have latched on to.

Sloppyjoes: I'd love to see your degrees. You know, since you're soooooooooo much smarter than doctors and all.

PS: You're not. Shut your discriminatory @!$%#chute.

The Constitution says nothing about gay marriage.

It doesn't mention marriage period. But the SCOTUS did, in their landmark case: Loving v. Virginia (1967), which ruled that marriage is a "basic civil right."

Most likely, the only way it will be made a national issue is if you can get enough support for a constitutional amendment.

Or if the SCOTUS becomes involved and rules on gay marriage.

richard i hate to burst your bubble but nobody is BORN GAY,

I hate to bust your delusion, but homosexuality is a inborn trait.

i dont care what doctors have said they are moron and gay themselves, they dont want to be branded as a mental problem, nobody does.

In other words, "don't bother me with facts when my opinion is good enough for me!" So tell me, why does your opinion have any validity, especially over that of medical or scientific professionals?

but realize this NOBODY IS BORN GAY!!!

Repeating yourself doesn't lend you any more credibility, or make your statement any more true.

I dont need a degree its a simple fact, nature put a male and female on this planet to create LIFE! not only to love but to create LIFE!. if you idiots cant fathom those notions then some really wrong with you. Its not ignorance or anything, just that you like the same sex doesnt make you bad, its just shows you have something wrong in your head.

of course you can love whoever you like, but when you stop one form of love to something you have to stop the other form too. Incest, Beastility.. etc etc.

of course its by choice you have the choice to do what you will, but know the consequences. here you are loving the same sex but yet you want a family?? how can that be?? when you cannot create life on your own. you have the sense to have a family true, yes yes , there are some couple who cannot create life spare me the rants that you produce to cover yourselves. cry all you want, you are born straight you are born with the right amount of hormones to create life.

those of you who are trying to silent the truth are in fact ignorant, yes.

nobody is born gay, you might "act gay" by putting on dresses, wearing shoes oh sure, but doesnt mean you are gay, attracted to the oppisite sex takes work, and since you gays have failed in that class. you retort to the same sex trying to seek out another one that loves you, because theres nothing else out there for you.

you hate the idea of trying to find the perfect mate, in the opposite sex. because you know the opposite sex is a hard process to find.

born gay, how silly one can be, im sure you have 5 year old wanting sex with the same sex kids, yeah! i can see that or even younger favoring the father or mother more of their same sex. you people are CRAZY!

Dont worry its okay to love who you want to be with, you just cannot stand the opposite sex, or sure for a few moments at a time. you just hate to be branded as something freaky, that's all. i understand, its okay dont worry. nobody wants to be different. they just want to be unique.

Love is a powerful emotion, you guys are acting upon it all the wrong way, thats all.

when your on a boat or yet a prison for months on end with all the same sex eventually you start to love them, and start having sex with them because your hormone are in overdrive, you need that feeling to be release, you just have no control. (mental issue)

yeah you will rant and rave, trying to come up with some clever remark to try to twist the truth around this, its okay to release your anger, ahh yes, you talk about hate, when in fact you gays hate the idea, that people think like this. ahhh yes its a wonderful thing the mind is.

so now who the haters!??!

grammar and spelling police stay out, nobody cares, you are idiots too.

sloppyjoe, you are blinded by your own cognitive limitations. We have two genders in order to procreate, however, gay behaviour often has an evolutionary advantage (i.e. homosexuality assists in the continuation of many species).

Some squid mate with all other squid due to it being easier than identifying only members of the opposite sex. Lions engage in gay sex in order to generate social bonds among all male groups... these groups are the only way a alpha male in a pride can be deposed and thereby allowing the other males access to females for breeding. Many species have homosexual members for social cohesion, or for resource allocation.

One theory is that in humans, having a gay uncle or aunt would enable the nieces and nephews to thrive when resources were poor. If all members of the family were straight, there would have been more children (consumers) and fewer proportionally resource providers. When finding food is a life or death issue, this may have made the difference between having a next generation, versus no children surviving.

Thus, gay people also historically, and now through IVF, adoption and surrogacy, are also providing "life" as you put it.

Sloppyjoes,

See if you can answer this: What sent attracts you and arouses your sexual desire; the scent of a male or the scent of a female? Now tell me when did you choose this?

nature put a male and female on this planet to create LIFE! not only to love but to create LIFE!.

What does that have to do with marriage? What about couples who choose not to have kids?

its just shows you have something wrong in your head.

The APA disagrees with you.

but when you stop one form of love to something you have to stop the other form too. Incest, Beastility.. etc etc

A strawman argument.

here you are loving the same sex but yet you want a family?? how can that be??

Gays are capable of reproduction too. Then there's also adoption, surrogates, ect.. "Family" is a broad term.

you retort to the same sex trying to seek out another one that loves you, because theres nothing else out there for you.

Your rant is becoming increasingly delusional!

born gay, how silly one can be

How ignorant can you be?

Love is a powerful emotion, you guys are acting upon it all the wrong way, thats all.

Who are you to say how people feel or act on love is right or wrong? Get off your sanctimonious high horse! You make yourself look foolish.

yeah you will rant and rave, trying to come up with some clever remark to try to twist the truth around this,

The only one ranting and raving here is you. Too bad you can't see that.

, you are idiots too.

A mindless rant punctuated with an ad hom attack: the sure sign of someone who's in over their head.

This last census was a total waste of tax payer dollars based on the short questionnaire they used.

The Census Bureau conducts many smaller surveys throughout the decade to determine much of the information that they used to obtain once every 10 years. There's no need to do the big survey except to get a population count and to meet Constitutional requirements.

Besides, just because they are married doesn't mean they are having sex. Check you married male friends and see how often they are getting any - especially after the wife has all the kids she wants.

The ones who actually exist?

You trolling? Who asked God? This isn't anything to do with religion...sorry. If you don't want to marry someone of your sex you are free not to do so. If it is against your beliefs then don't do it.

But really this isn't your business...it is between couples and not related to your opinion or beliefs.

Nothing to see here...move along.

We are a secular democracy. "Gods" don't make the laws in the United States.

Alan, i think you are on the wrong vine.

Alan-1380274 - They say they're "married." GOD says they're NOT. Guess who's Right?

The state which issued the marriage license.

Marriage predates all mention of your god. It isn't "his" invention because people were getting married before they even "knew" about him/made him up.

So EVEN IF GOD EXISTS, the inventor of marriage (man) is the owner of marriage.

Alan--since when did this have to do with religion? A marriage performed by a judge or justice of the peace is as lawful as one performed in a church.

The corporate media and those whom they own in congress do not care if we hate them.. As long as we hate each other.

Amen Alan. Prayers.

@Alan, Marriage, including homosexual marriage, predates the Abrahamic religions, so your claims of god,(if it exists) are irrelevant.

What I'll never figure out is why three lines or so in the Bible is so much more important than.. almost every other message in the Bible. Perhaps it's because certain Christians aren't really concerned with the Bible and are far more concerned with justifying their hatred of gays/lesbians... and frankly anyone different from them.

Siobhan, I think it's because they're really followers of Paul the Zealot, not Jesus.

I'll take my odds then I'll go to church with my partner in texas, we'll say our vows and I'll welcome God to intervene when the priest asks for anyone who objects to this holy union. If God fails in attending, his holy, omnipotent highness clearly does not object, right?

They say they're "married." GOD says they're NOT. Guess who's Right?

Newsflash for ya: The Constitution, not the Bible, is the foundation of the Law in the USA.

Otherwise, we'd be using the same part of the Bible that's used to rationalize discrimination against gays to also ban cotton/poly blend fabric, Red Lobster, and quite a few other things that no one seems to be preaching will destroy our country.

You make interesting points. We are definitely way over-populated.

Barry--great post! You've made some great points.

Actually we are not overpopulated. We manage our land poorly and cities are way overpopulated. You could fit all the people on the planet in the state of Texas with about 3,000 square ft person. It's math, not an opinion. I am NOT saying that this is a good idea. I am simply trying to show that we are not overpopulated. You can drive for hours and hours through many places and never see a single person. It wouldn't be fun to live there, but you could live there.

Well science hasn't proven that homosexuality is little more than an evolutionary 'circuit-breaker' that kicks in when a species is no longer struggling for survival. However, science has proven that homosexuality is not a genetic trait or a hereditary trait. Not too many more options left? Choice.... maybe?

240 species practice homosexual acts.

1 practices homophobia.

Seriously Donald?!

Well science hasn't proven that homosexuality is little more than an evolutionary 'circuit-breaker' that kicks in when a species is no longer struggling for survival. However, science has proven that homosexuality is not a genetic trait or a hereditary trait. Not too many more options left? Choice.... maybe?

Where did you get your degree?! Was it perhaps in scientology class that you learned this rubbish? Because let me assure you science has yet to come to a conclusion on this matter.

However here are several facts for you:

Homosexual couples provide a greater ability to accumulate natural resources like food

Homosexual couples require fewer resources to sustain their own life, then heterosexual couples with their own biological offspring

During natural periods of strong selection, such as for example a drought, biological families with homosexual couples have a higher chance of survival then plain heterosexual couples.

Animals generally share the percentage of genetic likeness in resources, if needed. Thus if we have A male and a female Finch, both parents would likely be willing to give up to 50% of their collected resources to sustain their offspring. During a drought, this may be insufficient to ensure survival of the offspring. If however one of the brothers or sisters of our bird family is a homosexual couple they can not use all of their resources and likely have the ability to share a limited amount. This can ensure the survival of the full family. Thus while the homosexual couple did not produce their own offspring, during periods of selection they can ensure that a genetically highly similar and related individual can survive. Thus indirectly passing on their own genetic information through a brother or sister by ensuring the survival of the parent genes!

Consider this before nocking the "gay gene," it is very possible that there is a genetic origin, in fact I would argue that it is nearly guaranteed. It is also quite possible that this gene is connected to a "silencing" mechanism. This would make it possible to trigger the gene depending on natural occurrences.

You can get married in 100 or 1000 churches but if you don't have that little piece of paper from the state guess what, in the eyes of the law you're not married. The incest laws come from the same place that the laws of Kosher come from. They were originally written as a health code. Children born of incest have a higher rate of mental and/or physical problems the same way that food created under non-kosher conditions had more of a chance of making people sick. The reasons for Kosher have now been incorporated into religion but the reasons for them still stand. Food created under the conditions that caused the creation of the laws will still get you sick as the medical reasons to avoid a relationship created through incest will still cause problems.

You could fit all the people on the planet in the state of Texas with about 3,000 square ft person

The point about over population isn't the physical space people take up, it's the resources required to support them.

I can't quite believe this has to be said out loud.

Anything that happens in nature is natural but for those who continue to profess that homosexuality is unnatural and use it as a bar for recognizing the equality of those who are homosexual, please make sure to throw away the antibiotics when you get sick, walk to work instead of driving a car, stop shaving because nature did not produce a razor blade, stop playing music, and throw away your electronic devices including your computer so that we don't have to read your senseless garbage on newsvine.

BTW, homosexuality is completely natural and moral...your stupid religious beliefs don't mean crap.

The people who says there other species who has homosexuality are idiots, seriously now. COME ON!!

dont tell me you have not evolved into a higher species than these animals??

Are you saying you cannot control your ANIMAL URGES?!??!

So what other species are doing it, what are you a LEMMING!?!?

You are suppose to be evolved, i guess you gays havent reached that level just yet.

Geesus this is a lame argument and a lame excuse.

Its a mental problem, plain and simple, just nobody want to be branded a mental person. a few screws are loose so what. just dont deny it thats all that youre all mental!

SloppyJoes,

The argument was made that homosexuality is unnatural ... and it has been demo0nstrated that this is false.

Pretty simple really.

@Use the gray matter please

There is no gay gene!!

A.) The entire Human Genome has been mapped and no gay gene was found. Maybe it is an "invisible" gene or it's an "elusive" gene???

B.) We don't know if Animals have any relevancy too Human Beings concerning homosexuality.

C.) Homosexuals can't naturally reproduce with each other.

D.) Homosexuality is not a hereditary trait nor biological trait. You can't give it too your children or you can't get it from your biological parents.

E.) How do i know? because I choose to be Gay

THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY!!

A.) The entire Human Genome has been mapped and no gay gene was found. Maybe it is an "invisible" gene or it's an "elusive" gene???

? We might have mapped the genome, doesn't mean we have complete knowledge of how it works.

B.) We don't know if Animals have any relevancy too Human Beings concerning homosexuality.

Humans are animals. Many other species exhibit homosexual behaviour INCLUDING our closest living relatives chimps and bonobos.

C.) Homosexuals can't naturally reproduce with each other.

Homosexuals have been producingoffspring for as long as humnas have been around. You don't need to be sexually attracted to someone to mate with them.

D.) Homosexuality is not a hereditary trait nor biological trait. You can't give it too your children or you can't get it from your biological parents.

Care to cite a source for that?

E.) How do i know? because I choose to be Gay

Sample size of one. Other homosexual people tell us that they did not choose their sexuality. In fact heterosexual people tell us they don't choose their sexuality so if we compare the two data sets I know which one I would favor.

THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY!!

Except that it exists in nature.

Donald you are assuming that a special gene must cause homosexuality. What if it's the same gene that causes women to be attracted men, but in the Gay man's genome, and the gene that causes men to be attracted women to be in a lesbian's genome? Have you ever considered that?

@Wade, Tampa Florida

I am not the person that decided to look for a "gay gene". I am merely a spectator gather information. The only reason it was mentioned in the first place is because homosexuals kept stating that they believed they were born gay which science has yet to prove exist in Human Beings other than it being a choice. I choose to be gay and I know 100% that it's not something genetic or an hereditary trait. A.) I can't give homosexuality too my biological children or get it from my biological parents. B.) The human genome was mapped and there was no gay gene that exist. I'm sure if they found a gay gene then homosexuals would be singing a different tune.

It's time for homosexuals too accept reality and stop playing "Mythical" games. Homosexuality didn't choose us, we subconsciously or consciously chose Homosexuality based upon environmental factors.

You were the person to make the claim offer proof or shut it.

With respect Donald, 10.15 was at best a knee jerk reaction. Lets say a man gets the genes that heterosexual women have making them attracted to other men. And lesbians get genes that that are normally in men. They will not flag as unusual. Why could it not happen? Is your objection that it could explain why same sex couples are drawn together as a natural reaction. I do no accept "I choose to be gay and I know 100% that it's not something genetic or an hereditary trait. A.) I can't give homosexuality too my biological children or get it from my biological parents. B.)" No you do not know that with 100 percent certainty.

If we understood every switch in the genome we could make genetic diseases a thing of the past with viruses programed to hunt down and replace the defective genes in infancy. If we understood and could activate the genes involved with growing a heart, organ donors would be a thing of the past.

Wade, Tampa Florida. ,

With all due respect my intentions are not too offend you so I didnt respond too 10.16 because you seemed to become irrationality with your responses. Anyways my rebuttal to your comment 10.17 ...... Given YOUR example: (Lesbians get genes that that are normally in men. ).... Well there are cases of twins who came from the same womb and had the same genetic make-up but 1 was heterosexual and the other twin claimed "bi-sexuality". If your theory was true wouldn't BOTH be of the same orientation. More than likely the twin that claimed "bi-sexuality" must have subconsciously or consciously chose homosexuality. Furthermore, Science has established that there is no gay gene that exist in the human body. There simply is no foundation to start "homosexuality" in the human body and nothing too suggest that it is biological. I am not here to spew hate or ignorance I am just simply accepting reality that homosexuality is a choice and it's desires can be completely removed from the human body if they truly WANT too(not just say it). Yes, gay sex can be awesome, I practice it myself from time to time but too go as far as stamping "Human Beings are born gay" when we have no definitive proof is simply illogical.

I was hypothesizing Donald. I never there was a Gay gene. Heterosexuality must be hardwired in. What I was saying is that the genes that control normal attraction could be cross wired in some people. As to the studies about twins I would like to see them. There is a third possibility. Some people may prefer same sex partners. I think it's inherited and hard wired in. If you are gay, maybe because if a Christian upbringing, I can see where you might associate homosexuality with a mental illness.

never said

You keep your definitions and that is cool..no one said anything about what you believe to be the best way to live, but they can call their relationships what they want as well. That's fine you aren't into "them" since they aren't into you either...lol. :)

So Joyce, your "solution" is separate but equal? Well, without the equal part anyway. I seem to remember that being tried somewhere before. Didn't work out so good.

Joyce must be a fan of the "Animal Farm" approach to life.

You want to cling onto a word that represents an over 50% fail rate?

We keep "marraige,husband,wife".Come up with your own words,it'll be much more palatable to all the people you don't care about than using those words.

Sorry, but you do not own the word marriage.

Actually, that is not true either. Once Gays have their way, then why cant brothers and sisters do it? As we fall farther and farther in De-evolution and over all confusion of "Civil and Human Rights" we will see fathers and daughters marrying, 60+ year old men and women in relations with 9 and 10 year old's and there will be no more child abuse or rape anymore because it will all be protected by "Civil Rights", the Law, and the Constitution. It has happened to other older countries.

its two consenting adult, i dont see why not. come on. its a male and female, and if you look at the bible for you bible thumpers, we are all brothers and sister that came from adam and eve, not adam and steve(yeah had to say it).

so heck, we can be marrying anybody. your all my brother and sister all from the same mother and father. eeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

get me off this planet!

Let's face it...the responses to this article continue to prove that about 30% of this country is irreparably ignorant

So 30% of the country agrees with gay marriage?

No, it's somewhere around 53% of the population that supports gay marriage.

And Mr Steady, at least that number would like to know why you even care.

If you're not gay, then this doesn't concern you. Time to move along.

Find a hobby or volunteer to help someone, instead of being a civic gadfly and expert pain-in-the-as*.

The corporate media and those whom they own in congress do not care if we hate them.. As long as we hate each other.

First came steps to racial equality. This is next. And I say hell yes. :)

You are correct. The long slide down the slippery slope of "anything goes", to the eventual destruction of this country as we know it , cannot be stopped. It is only a matter of time. Gay marriage is not the cause, it is but one symptom.

I am also tired of hearing about it. Tired of having it talked about everywhere I look. TV shows, movies, screwing up the military, in the news, tired of having my nose rubbed in it. If a person didn't know better, they would think 25% of the population were gay. You want to be a perv, participate in an abnormal, unhealthy, unnatural, unpopular lifestyle, knock yourself out. Just shut up about it already.

notacommie-1732574 - The long slide down the slippery slope of "anything goes", to the eventual destruction of this country as we know it , cannot be stopped.

The notion that other people have equal rights to you must trouble you greatly.

JP...you should know by now that there are topics wherein original thought, progressive understanding; have long given way to mind-numbing rhetoric. I can only repeat: never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.

Consider the poor souls who hang on every word of these TV Evangelist "con men" (and women); send tons of tax free money to them so they can have all the mansions, Rolls Royce autos, private jets......these people are usually the ones who decry any ideas that are to them, out of their "norm".

What ever happened to "live and let live" ?

They Can't. They know how ashamed their families (especially Fathers) are of them. Only Lawyers, Judges, Hollywood, and the media have the power to shove man on man sex down us regular folks throat as totally normal.

@Mags

If I were your parents, I would be immensely ashamed that I had given birth to such a moron and did nothing to prevent it. What a reason for birth control.

Let's face it...the responses to this article continue to prove that about 30% of this country is irreparably ignorant, or they do not possess the mental capacity to understand the concept of secular, legal civic equality.

and the other 70% oppose gay marriage?

Lets face it, token fags are the most protected "race" in America right now (I say race with sarcasm, because sodomy has nothing to do with ethnicity--it is entirely nurture/not nature. Why do you think they're so hellbent on the homofication of America's youth in school and media right now.

I've experienced and seen first hand a lot of violence in my own hometown, but I have never, ever seen any act of aggression against any homosexual ever... In fact, what I have seen is a lot of token queers being coddled and pampered in just about every social circle, whether around libtards or conservatives, in secular schools or conservative churches--EVERYONE coddles the faggots. Get a grip you queers, it has nothing to do with hate--other groups are hated, sodomites are coddled and pampered in
America right now (you're our favorite!!!), so much so that I think the disingenuousness of it must get nausiating even for them. You Libtards are just calling everyone that says it like it is haters, because you know we're right and it's your only defense. Talk about not having a F@(%ing brain...

In fact, what I have seen is a lot of token queers being coddled and pampered in just about every social circle, whether around libtards or conservatives, in secular schools or conservative churches--EVERYONE coddles the faggots. Get a grip you queers, it has nothing to do with hate

Yup, no hate there...

You obviously don't know someone who is gay, because if you did you wouldn't be making such a fool of yourself with such amazingly idiotic statements.

IF you're not gay, then this doesn't concern you. It has no affect on you or your personal life and you need to learn the boundaries of concerning yourself as such with others secular legal civil rights.

It's called being a busy-body, nosy and in your case, ignorant.

You're arguments are invalid and your rationalizing of your position is contemptible and frankly, ignorant of gay people's realistic struggles.

Sorry...this response wasnt intended for you.

The problem with your argument is that some people have been erroneously lead to believe that they have the right to limit secular legal civil marriage to exclude same-sex couples based on religious teachings, fallacies and flat-out animus.

No one has the right, nor the right to define equality. Equality means what its root word is....equal. All adult, non-related, and mentally capable couples should have the right to marry should they like, gender not withstanding.

The problem with your argument is that some people have been erroneously lead to believe that they have the right to limit secular legal civil marriage to exclude same-sex couples based on religious teachings, fallacies and flat-out animus.

Considering that I said that is where the discrimination starts, I don't see what problem you have with my argument. Denying legal recognition of a person's marriage based on sexual orientation is discrimination. Period. It doesn't really matter the reason people give for denying them equality, none of their reasons are valid.

As I mentioned in the second comment....I posted incorrectly to your response.

Got your gist. Agreed.

Yeah the Democrats shouldnt started it.

Some idiots always have to involve politics. Politicians are the offspring of satan.

Does that make you one to by commenting?

Varuka is close minded and bigoted against people who do not hold the same opinion as he - it seems. Hopefully he is right and such hatred will die with him.

Instead, why not all the GOP/Teavangelicals and social conservatives move into the old south and seceed. You can have Texas and Oklahoma as a bonus, and then the rest of America gets to build a big, electrified fence at the border.

You can live out all your right-wing fantasies in one place, and we'll see how close your little country comes to evolving into an American Zimbabwe in about a decade.

The advantage is the IQ of the remainder of America goes up by fifteen points all at once.

I, too, am a student of the Bible and spent many years as an apologist (or defender of the faith). Certain things occurred in my life that made me take a hard look at the words and thoughts that I had before, though. I have come to this conclusion:

Christianity, in its very nature, is an archaic contradiction of a faith. I could cite numerous examples, but since we're on the topic of homosexuality...well, I couldn't think of a better one. In the old testament and new testament, there are numerous verses condemning homosexuality, simply because it is deemed "unnatural" and is "lustful".

But WAIT, here comes Jesus, who hangs out with the worst of the worst in society...the prostitutes, the tax collectors. He tells us that people will know we follow Him by the way we love one another. He tells us not to judge others.

And then...HOLD ON...here comes Paul (and a couple others) in the New testament after Jesus has said peace out. They once again condemn homosexuality...there are even verses seemingly giving permission to rebuke others and be judges.

What a load of crap. Quite honestly, all you have to do is witness humanity long enough to know the truth. Little children practice homosexual tendencies from a very early age...before they have had a chance to even learn what any of it means. Are they looking for attention? Are they choosing a lifestyle? Please. If the god of Christianity says to condemn and judge others because of something they cannot HELP, it was clearly a god invented by man. Period.

Are you suggesting that all GOP are anti-gay? That seems to be a most bigoted statement. What about the gay conservatives? Don't you te them as well with such an ignorant statement?

Gay conservatives. An odd group indeed.

Kind of in-fathomable....like... 'Jews for Hitler'.

As long as the GOP is in bed with people who want gays to be relegated to second-class status or even killed, then conservative GOP gays have some serious self-loathing to resolve.

Watermoon - Are you suggesting that all GOP are anti-gay?

Not all, they're just far more bigoted on average than normal Americans.

That seems to be a most bigoted statement. What about the gay conservatives?

They're in the wrong party, kind of like a black or Jewish KKK member.

2 points to the above by jparch and hopeinangguish

First to the idea that Jesus said don't judge others, he also said if you love me keep my commandments and his parting words to the adulterous woman was go thy way and SIN NO MORE.

Secondly I am tired of being called a bigot by bigots. Its seems we are supposed to be tolerant of your views that homosexuality is okay, but forget it when it come to you being tolerant of our view that is violates the laws of God and is unnatural behavior.

Hey --

No one is telling you that you can't believe that being gay is a sin. But, assuming you are against gay marriage, you are telling everyone that the laws should conform to your belief. See the problem there?

And the argument I always hear in response to this is:

Gay people are forcing their views on me!

Actually, if you consider this logically:

The anti-gay marriage group is stating "my belief is that homosexuality is wrong so I believe it should be illegal for gays to marry." I.e. because of my belief, I want there to be laws preventing people from doing something.

The pro-gay marriage group is saying "My belief is that homosexuality is fine and that gay marriage should be legal." On this basis, they are arguing for allowing gay marriage to be legal, which in no way limits the rights of heterosexual people (or anti-gay heterosexual people).

So.. who is truly forcing their worldview on whom? Hm...

well if that's the case, i am all for sexual lust. Being a nun sounds boring m-612920

Hey-4192970 - Secondly I am tired of being called a bigot by bigots. Its seems we are supposed to be tolerant of your views that homosexuality is okay, but forget it when it come to you being tolerant of our view that is violates the laws of God and is unnatural behavior.

Sounds like not only don't you like having your ignorant bigotry called out, but you're trying to impose your sharia laws on everyone else.

FYI, our secular government doesn't give a @!$%# about your cult or your imaginary friend.

m - while you're congratulating yourself on you intellect, you might want to learn the difference between "succeed" and "secede".

When bigots use malapropisms, it really makes them look stupid, doesn't it?

One other question, how can you find time to pray for gay people, about whom Christ said nothing? You should be too busy, already, praying for all the heterosexuals who have remarried after divorcing. Christ had plenty to say about that! Oh, yeah, if it's a popular sin, we just overlook it!

Not offended, because I know I'm right; it's "secede," not "succeed."

oh and by the way m-612920 i for one do not need, want or have the desire to know your GOD and lucky me i live in CA. You say you do not want gay people flaunting the life style for you. So DO NOT try to shove your's down our throat's

Being called a bigot by a "man on man sex" participant named Skrekk, is confirmation that my "crazy" Christian beliefs are what made this country great. Keep shaming your father skrekk.

-@Mags

Seems more like some Christians and their illogical beliefs are destroying America and making us the laughing stock of the modern world. A first world country where a good percentage of us live under weird forms of religious superstition and fear that promotes bigotry, hate and illogic as a way of 'serving' their chosen god.

Pathetic.

Sounds like Mags' faith is rather weak....why else would she need the government to endorse it and prop it up through her Christian sharia laws?

Wow!!! Where does all of this talk about Sharia (talk about an overgeneralization). Oh, but that's okay when it's comming from the left right--I mean, the end always justifies the means with you "progressives."

Truth is, however, it is the opposite of what you gay promoters say. That anyone who opposes gay marriage want to oppress homosexuals with with restrictive "Sharian" type laws.

Give one example of oppression or infringements of rights. Even gays have gone public on national telivision opposing same-sex marriage, on the grounds that they already have equal rights through civil unions. Those that are honest also readily admit that it is a perversion (I mean common--state the obvious) and that they've chosen that because perverted sex is what they like. So name one example...truth is, you can't.

What you will find is countless examples throughout the country, and the world, of the rights of those who disagree with your homosexual agenda being infringed upon to the point of businesses being shut down through frivolous lawsuits over "civil rights," when everyone knows those gays targeted that business knowing that the owners had convictions religious or otherwise that cause a conflict of conscience when offering a service of a personal nature. Many upstanding, honest, hard working families have had their rights violated in this way...and it continues to get worse.

So, please don't insult our intelligence by talking about hate, homophobia, bigotry, violation or rights, and Sharia type laws. The only Sharia legislation in this country is comming from homosexual justices in San Francisco and the Supreme Court. That is clearly a Sharian oppressive governjment.

YouCan'tHandletheTruth-3807062 - Where does all of this talk about Sharia (talk about an overgeneralization).

If you think your religious codes against gays should be written into our secular law, it's exactly the same thing as sharia law.

Whether it's Kosher law, Mosaic law, Canon law, or Sharia law, none of your religious laws belong in our secular law. Keep your cult where it belongs under the 1st Amendment - in your own life.

Give one example of oppression or infringements of rights.

Gays are not allowed to marry each other in most states.

Even gays have gone public on national telivision opposing same-sex marriage, on the grounds that they already have equal rights through civil unions.

Calling BS on that one. Civil unions is not the same as marriage, nor do they confer equal rights.

Those that are honest also readily admit that it is a perversion

Most say they've always known they were gay.

when everyone knows those gays targeted that business knowing that the owners had convictions religious or otherwise that cause a conflict of conscience when offering a service of a personal nature.

What does one's religious beliefs have to do with businesses serving the public?

Many upstanding, honest, hard working families have had their rights violated in this way...and it continues to get worse.

Playing the victim I see.

Secondly I am tired of being called a bigot by bigots.

Hey, if the shoe fits.

Its seems we are supposed to be tolerant of your views that homosexuality is okay, but forget it when it come to you being tolerant of our view that is violates the laws of God and is unnatural behavior.

You can believe whatever you like. But god's laws do not make or supercede our secular laws.

How about all the gay people just move to California. They can succeed from the union, create their own nation and leave the rest of us alone.

The same can be said for all homophobes and bigots.

I will not, no, never will accept behavior that is clearly defined in the Bible.

Your acceptance is neither required nor necessary.

And nobody is going to convince me that "they were born that way"

Wallow in ignorance if you wish. Doesn't change the facts.

"So, please don't insult our intelligence by talking about hate, homophobia, bigotry, violation or rights, and Sharia type laws"

You must first demonstrate intelligence. And we need look no further back than the fall of the Roman Empire to see where "the bible" would lead this country. The Christian minority destroyed the Roman Empire in 10 short years. Yeah, that's what we should aspire to. Also the Tea Party is identical the rise of Hitler.

Write this one again Norm. It needs to be stated more clearly.

why has nothing been done to bullies or their folks

THANK YOU!!! :)

i really meant that. thank you, that needed to be posted

People are killing themselves, not just the homosexuals, because we live in an increasingly confused, dysfunctional, and hopeless society.

THey are not becoming self-destructive from being confronted by reality, they are self-destructive because they live in a society that is lost.

Yes, the bigoted idiots such as yourself have nothing to do with it. Even after Jamey Rodemeyer commited suicide he continued to get hate mail from bigoted idiots. You should be ashamed of yourself, of course that would require you have a soul.

Is odd still a synonym for queer - or is that all changed these day? Certainly gay is no longer a synonym for happy.

That would be mildly amusing if all gay people were men, but they're not.

That is only the number that has come out to the census; not an accurate numer of the real count.

You don't have to be a man to have balls. Hillary has more balls than Obama.

The article is only discussing the number of same-sex couples, not the number of gay individuals, which is far, far higher.

I heard they weren't really married either

Anyone who worships a deity that destroyed a city and/or world because some people were "evil" has their own problems.

Why anyone would want to worship such a thing, except out of fear, is silly.

When christians can provide proof of this magic, cloud riding genie-man (that's a man, but not a man, but is a man, but isn't) people will listen. Other than that, it's nothing more than a bunch of organized crazies that use antiquated stories to foster hate and segregation.

We invite you to add something intelligent to the conversation. That's barely a sentence.

of course the people who choose to engage in deviant behavior slur the bible and those who read it. their god is self and self-gratification, end of story.

of course the people who choose to engage in deviant behavior slur the bible and those who read it. their god is self and self-gratification, end of story.

I don't enegage in any "deviant" behaviour (except I like shellfish and mixed fivber clothing). Otherwise I'm as saintly as any christian. I denounce your stupid book and its mindless followers because you have no logical basis for your beliefs, the bible is filled with inconsistency, and you use your faith to harass me on the weekend, and try to limit the rights of others.