Viewer

I'm so glad you shared that with all of us!

The question is....Why??

Why what?

If a bear tries to kill you will you just spread a table cloth for him?

The grizzly didn't attack them until after they shot it, having mistaken it for a different kind of bear.

Viewer_Ready

If they weren't out hunting the bear (illegal), and stupid enough to follow a wounded bear into thick brush, and unprepared skill wise, none of this would have happened.

I've had bear walk past camp many times. We generally get along just fine since I don't leave food out for them or pizz them off.

The guy in the mountain lion article couldn't hit the mountain lion after firing several shots. They need to make lessons and practice a requirement for having a gun.

Sounds like tit for tat; 'shoot me? I'll maul you. And, your friend will finish the job i started'. Really.... if you're going to go hunting them, why get all p.o'd when the tables turn?

They went to the Dick Cheney School of Marksmenship

Lets see;

Went to hunt black bear in an area where there just happened to have grizzlies.

Just happened to shoot a bear twice as big as a black bear

Just happened to miss and kill his friend.

Or for all we know, he killed his friend and then killed the bear when it started to eat the carcass. All you have is the word of someone who would probably say anything. Did he admit that he shot his friend?

bill s

The scenario you put forth would be very very unlikely to happen. First, not all grizzleys are "twice as big as a black bear", and second, many black bears are not black, but brown / honey colored. The two species can be easily mistaken for each other, and often are.

Third, most black bears and grizzly bears stear clear of people unless with cubs or are surprised.

The kid most likely didn't know he'd shot his freind till much later. I'd hate to be him. We may even read about his attempted suicide later. Let's hope not.

Its sad a story like this comes out and Idiots flow out from all directions with the most worthless post. Urban Idiots know it all.

bill s-- it's called forensics. Look it up. They can tell whether or not wounds occur before or after someone is dead, so they can easily identify whether the mauling occurred before or after death.

Do you even own a television? This information is featured on every law enforcement show known to man-- and I'm not just talking fictional shows like CSI and Law & Order, but docu-dramas like 48 hours, Cops and The New Detectives.

Bob

You aren't suggesting that a manly man, out looking for bears to kill with a high powered rifle were being irresponsible by drinking, are you?

Too bad for the 20 year old kid. He''ll have to live with that for the rest of his life. I wonder if the NRA will help pay for any counseling he may need?

PuddleDuck... Not sure if it made it to this edit of the story but the two big bad hunters "mistakenly" wounded the grizzly and followed it into heavy brush where it laid in wait for them. When they went to poke the bear (to be sure it was dead) it took a liking to them.

Where's the big bad hunters defending these two now? Said it before and will say it again. Only point your gun at what you intend to hit and kill. KNOW what you are pointing at. Granted the dead hunter would have probably been mauled to death if he had not been shot and the bear killed but .... had the hunters KNOWN it was not a legal bear in the first place and not shot it they would not have had to follow it into the brush to finish it.

Partial Darwin award as I believe the dead hunter had procreated.

Pro Gun anti ID10T with guns.

The 20 year old was probably in full-panic mode. Fight or flight response. It's incredibly crass of you (both of you) to belittle him in the aftermath of this tragedy. You weren't there-- you don't know how it happened.

How about some good old fashioned empathy for the next of kin? Too f*cking hard for you?

trust/verify

"Pro Gun anti ID10T with guns"

Aren't most civilians with guns idiots?

That's a total BS comment AZPADDY. Paint everyone who owns a gun with a broad brush. That is a technique of an uncluttered mind.

AZPADDY I don't KNOW MOST civilians. The gun owners I do know are mostly responsible law abiding citizens who have received training either in a civilian course, the military or both (as is my case). I have seen/met a few who have no clue about gun safety or how to handle a gun.

WMG I sympathize with the next of kin. However, stupid is as stupid does. They shot at an UNKNOWN or ILLEGAL target in the first place It was NOT panic fire on the first shot. Later when the bear fought back it turned into panic fire perhaps. Again a responsible person does not shoot unless they know what they are targeting and they hit what they are shooting at. The 20 year old "kid" was supposedly RESPONSIBLE enough to pick up a gun as was the man who died. LIFE is HARD. I don't suffer fools lightly.. nature doesn't suffer fools AT ALL.

Before you say it "they made a MISTAKE"... They were responsible for their actions. No one made them pick up a gun and shoot the bear in the first place. They were responsible for their "MISTAKE." If you feel better being politically correct then blame it on the bear I guess. By extension, since the bear is part of nature, blame it on nature. Darwin wrote about nature and natural selection. Seems a little selection happened.

Aren't most civilians with guns idiots?

that is the dumbest statement i've seen on newsvine in a long, long time.

Q. "Aren't most civilians with guns idiots?"

A. No, but all people with the username "AZPADDY" are.

"The 20 year old was probably in full-panic mode."

If the 20 yo was mentally unprepared for the realities of entering bear country, he should have been the water boy only, not allowed to carry a loaded weapon.

I sometimes go up in the hills with my camera. If I encounter bear hunters, I get the he11 out of there. They don't have the wattage to run a toaster. And they look like they wandered off the set of "Deliverance".

UHF3

Only in the lightly monitored MSNBC articles does a personal attack like yours stand a chance of not being deleted, but of course that's why you posted it.

Let me guess....you're a proud gun owner.

As the country / western song says: "Here's your sign..."

AZPADDY,

Um, its not a song. Its a comidic recording. A joke, very much like yourself. I never heard Bill Engvall put out a song with the 'here's your sign' in it. Plus, never knew a comidian to be considered Country/Western. So, I guess, "Here is your sign!" And I guess if you cant take the heat from what you stur up then stay off the internet.

Most hunters I know make every effort to do the right thing and portray a positive image. We work hard to teach the youth the skills needed in this way of life. The poster that said all hunters he sees look like thay came out of "Deliverance" is sadly mistaken. If it were not for the hunters I doubt he would have the subjects for his photography and what idiot would even be out shooting pictures during hunting season with out orange on. Yes hunting is a season. The two bear species can be confused.

The hunter should have known his target first. Second he should have incorporated more help once they learned the animal was wounded and started tracking it.

It is a tragedy and this young man panicked trying to save his friend. He may have shot very easily through the bear into his friend.

Deliverance did for the wilderness what "Jaws" did for the oceans. It kept out the uneducated.

Know the state's "seasons" for hunting and always wear some bright orange for safety if venturing out into the wilderness this time of year. Remember is is against the law to impede or disrupt a legal hunter in his activities.

DuaneH1

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it was indeed a hit in the 1980's, played with regularity by most country western stations.

Too bad your ignorance overruled what little common sense you apparently have.

See? I can hurl insults as well as any conservative can. Piece O' cake.

People please, this isn't about guns or a persons ID10T status its all about smarts in the wild, and $HIT happens and will happen again, gun safety should be a mandatory class in school that would help for a starter, and yes a course should be provided for persons who wish to hunt that would be appropreate. but to pick this apart and blame guns is showing a lack of intel on your part were you their, have you ever been face to face with a pissed of grizzly on your or your friends a$$ give me a break, you are making yourself look stupid. and remember the old saying those with no swords shall die upon them, that applies to guns to. My sympathy to all effected by this unfortunate situation.

? AZPADDY? Just what the #uck does that stand for? slang for s#!t head?

Sorry that would be a compliment, its meaning is properly refered to S for brains.

Puddles I know a shot would have made no difference at that point in time the bear was riled and on the deffensive, it was to late.

Agree. Notice that even after being hit by these dunderheads, the bear DID NOT attack, instead it went away from them and into the woods to heal or die. They followed it.

What would you expect them to do? go shoot another, you are supposed to persue your pray to the finish! may seam cold crule and harsh but proper for hunters to finish the ordeal, you don't allow the animal to wander off and suffer, to die a long agonizing death as distastefull as it seams you finish the task at all cost. I don't eat bear so I dont hunt bear I dont like or respect trophy hunting but hunting for food is ten times more humane than going to the store and buying meat from a slaughter house and dont tell me you don't buy meat or at least now people that do. and the hunters contribute to the well being of the wild game. not to mention those animals live a far better life than their Domestic counterparts, how is it that you anti this anti that individules can be such Hippocrits. ID-10-t says it all.

D Buck #5.2

"persue"? "Pray" "individules"??

LoL!!! And you think you can insult me??

a terrified young man fires multiple shots at a bear attacking his friend, and you want to say he's an idiot? You weren't there, you do not know the angles or how fast the bear was moving, yet you judge. Try it first, then tell me about it.

I don't think you've followed the story. According to various news sources, the "attack" happened after they allegedly misidentified the grizzly as a black bear (two very different bears if you know anything about wildlife. It's also illegal to shoot a grizzly bear in the lower 48 as they are on the endangered species list). They shot it, then followed it into the brush, then his friend got attacked.

"a terrified young man fires multiple shots at a bear attacking his friend, and you want to say he's an idiot?"

Considering they were stalking a member of a species that is illegal to hunt there, which they had already shot (and hit) it's clear that neither of them had a clue. Yes he is an idiot - a profoundly stupid one!

Trying to talk about angles, etc doesn't mean a damn thing - when you go out hunting bears, you bring very powerful weapons with you - weapons with some amazing penetrating power. What that means is that if your buddy is behind the bear and you squeeze the trigger, only a complete and total moron will not realize that at least some of the rounds WILL penetrate the bear and go into your buddy.

This stupid kid screwed up and killed his friend - simple as that. Should he go to jail for a long time? No... he should be the poster child for people too damn irresponsible to be allowed to get a hunting license for the rest of his life - that should be his punishment. As well, of course, as getting to remember what it feels like to gun down a friend.

They didn't specify what weapons were being used, but anybody with a clue who goes bear hunting will have a large rifle (.30-06 or larger) AND a Magnum or similar large caliber (and high powder load) handgun - normally a revolver so there's zero chance of a jam.

Unless the kid is a pathetic aim, the round that hit his buddy sounds like it may have gone through the bear - indicating that the kid was still using his rifle. Mistake!!! At the short range they would have had to been at, that was revolver time - which has more dropping power, but less penetration power than a rifle.

CHOUSE,

Did you read something I didnt? I didnt see anything refering to the caliber of their wepons. Maybe they had 45-70 Govt. rifles? Maybe they hit a non-leathal spot? Maybe we will never know til an official report is released by sheriff and wildlife agents. You have all these 'pie in the sky' ideals about these people and equipment. Now, I know you would never have gotten into this condition, right? I take it you are a non-hunter. But, I can see how the whole bad scene could have happened. Did you ever wonder why a grizzley would have been that close? My suspect is they were being stalked, heard the bear, and shot. Can you prove different? And, NO, I cant prove anything different. A bear like this is the top of the food chain in the woods. Now as to how the friend shot his buddy, a bullet shot close range has a great chance of passing through that much mass. Which indicated to me that they did have large enough firearms to do the job, they just hit a non-leathal area. And as to a pistol, you need to place the muzzle in the ear, the eye, or under the head to cause immediate death. Anyother hit wouldnt have killed it fast enough and maybe brought an attack on that person. Please PROVE anything different and, I will recant all. Oh, and lets play what if? Your friend is being attacked by a wild animal. You have a rifle in your hands, charged and ready to go. Are you going to drop a known good weapon, thinking the rounds you fire MIGHT pass through and strike your friend. Or do you drop it and go with the pistol that means you have to get closer to the attacking animal mauling that human and might change his mind and attack you because you are too close to it? My primary reactions would be close to that hunters. In a high stress condition you dont stop and think, you run off your training and experiences. And if not trained to go to the hand gun, you dont. Its to easy for a worthless armchair quarterbacks, like you, to debate the whole thing without having been there yourself.

"I take it you are a non-hunter."

Wrong. I've never taken bear but I have many friends who HAVE and we've discussed tactics and safety protocol in much depth - as at some point I may go with them for a bear trip. However, I can't say I particularly care for the taste of bear meat, so my hunting is normally restricted to deer and pheasants. However since there are bears all over the place in my state, anybody with a clue knows how to take one down.

"worthless armchair quarterbacks, like you, to debate the whole thing without having been there yourself."

You're making a lot of assumptions there, and seriously don't know what you're talking about.

The simple fact is that if your buddy is in the line of fire, YOU move to the side and get an angle where they are NOT. That takes no more than a couple of seconds to jump a few feet to the side to get a better angle. If your buddy gets hit throat ripped out by the bear in that amount of time, he was a goner anyways.

Get a clue before you try and PRETEND you have one.

Some of us commenting here are veterans of life in the wild, and actually do know how you take down large prey.

"And as to a pistol, you need to place the muzzle in the ear, the eye, or under the head to cause immediate death."

Wrong, pop a Magnum into the heart/lung area and see how long the bastard stays on its feet! Going for the head is just asking for a ricochet, so please - stop pretending you know what you're talking about!!!

Your most pathetic and clear statement that proves you have no clue what you're talking about was the following:

"My suspect is they were being stalked, heard the bear, and shot."

You've clearly never heard a grizzly crashing through the brush. There is no such thing as being stalked by a bear that large in a deeply wooded area (as the article indicated) and not hearing it. You can hear them WAY WAY WAY before you'd be close enough to see it, let alone line up a clean shot.

And if you just shot a few rounds into the woods without seeing it, you deserve to be mauled by a bear - as random stray rounds are exactly how hunters die - by some newbie idiot tossing lead randomly.

Unless you see your target and have a good bead on it, you DO NOT fire.

Clearly YOU are the one who has never hunted.

How funny that you have tried to imply the opposite.

Putz.

CHOUSE

Kudos to you for your on-target (no pun intended) comments! KNOW YOUR TARGET says it all!

wheels #6

You and D Buck can share.....Here's your sign.

shot em all ..

Uh huh. Brilliant. There are about 1000 bears in the lower 48 states covering an area of 10,000,000 acres. I guess we should abandon Wyoming, Idaho and Montana to the grizzlies, eh? And that doesn't count all the bears in Alaska and western Canada, where they are more numerous. Better yet, humans are such toxic beasts that are harmful to theenvironment, we should all get up and move to Mars.

mdnorcuss you do KNOW that an ACRE is a square unit of measure 66 feet on one side by 660 feet on the other. 10,000,000 acres is roughly 15625 square miles. 10,000 acres per bear seems a bit on the big side but I will give you that number. Take your choice. I'm not advocating giving up entire states to the bears nor saying hunting is an altogether bad thing. ID10TS with guns ARE a bad thing.

Wyoming Area is 97,818 square miles
Yellowstone National Park Area is 2,219,789 acres

Yes I know what an acre is. These are not my figures for habitat area. I do note that their habitat is limited to relatively small areas near the border, which is where these guys were hunting. Lots of blacks up there too. Grizzlies are solitary bears, much like cougars are solitary cats. Each bear maintains its own territory, which is why they are spread out so much. Some areas, like yellowstone, have a higher concentration of bears.

They were hunting on the border of Idaho and Wy. This was NOT their first hunt per the previous article. Can't blame experience of lack of it. Bears live where they live. This was NOT the bears fault. If you believe it was the fault of the bear please make your case beyond "it's a bear" or "People are more important". The bear didn't shoot first. The bear wasn't even bothering anyone before or immediately after being shot. Careful if you make the argument that the bear was "smart" enough to set a trap for the ones who shot it. That will really defeat your argument that it was only a dumb animal and deserved to die.

Stay out of their habitats? Ok. How about all the Californians cede their land back to the Grizzlies? Used to be great habitat for the species until urbanization decimated the animal to extinction in that state. I guess Californians are much more comfortable living in the city and lobbying for laws on how Montanans can or cannot use their lands or protect their property...

PS: Unfortunate for the bear and the hunter. Hope people learn their lesson from this event.

i bet where you live you are and already stole allot of their habitat all the animals were here first..

"How about all the Californians cede their land back to the Grizzlies?"

Considering the state is constantly dealing with disasters caused by earthquakes, drought, wildfires, rockslides, mudslides, Crips & Bloods, narcos, and Tom Cruise; yeah maybe they should! ^^

Inexperience and dense woods. These two were required to take a class is identifying brown bears (grizzlies) from black bears, so it would seem reasonable to suggest that the guy who took the shot was either at long range and/or in heavy timber so that he could not clearly see what he was shooting at.

They had hunted in the area before mdnorcuss. There were two other hunters in their party who had gone in a different direction. Your arguments are reasonable but support the fact that they did NOT identify what they were shooting at. It COULD have been their fellow hunters.

I can tell you are not a hunter. Fellow hunters wear orange so they can be told apart from bears/deer, etc.

And I don't understand your post above: "This was NOT the bears fault. If you believe it was the fault of the bear please make your case beyond "it's a bear" or "People are more important". The bear didn't shoot first. The bear wasn't even bothering anyone before or immediately after being shot. Careful if you make the argument that the bear was "smart" enough to set a trap for the ones who shot it. That will really defeat your argument that it was only a dumb animal and deserved to die."

I never said or implied any such thing. Please don't try to put words in my mouth and instead extend me the courtesy of allowing me to put my own foot in it with my own words instead of your rantings. Yes, shooting the grizzly was a major mistake. No argument there. But following it was mandated by the hunting ethic that you track down any wounded animal until you find it dead or you kill it. This is not the first time an animal has killed the person hunting it; injured water buffalo have killed many hunters, sometimes by playing dead, sometimes by circling back and lying in wait for the hunter following their tracks--and these animals are so smart, they seem to know which hunter was the one that actually shot them.

mdnorcuss Thanks for the morning laugh about the water buffalo. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, just trying to prevent some of the more extreme folks from taking those arguments. It does seem some animals are smart so folks can't just say they are stupid/dumb animals which I have seen as an argument. A prime example being d_buck

Old Pharmacist I'm glad to hear/see you managed to duck... My grandfather was not so lucky and was not even hunting at the time. It's a shame that even when they paint the word COW on the side of cows hunters still manage to shoot them in deer season. I mean DEER has 4 letters after all.

where i live deer season time , human, horse cow, and just about anything else but deer have been shot..

As a volunteer for the division of wildlife one of my jobs was to go into hunting camps (where I was very unwelcome) and give them brochures on distinguishing a moose from an elk. It frightened me that people with powerful guns who couldn't tell a moose from an elk were allowed to roam around in the woods. It's not rocket science.

The system needs work no doubt, It should start in Elimentary school, hunter or not you should know the difference between a cow and an elk, and so on also Gun safety we are a nation that has the right to bear arms so all should know how to handle guns and ammunition was that way when I was a kid even had shooting or marksmanship as a extra activity, never should have stopped the teaching, I guess we had to please the libs.

D_buck finally something I can agree with you on. Problem is it is no longer PC to speak of guns or other weapons in schools. and OMG you want to mention hunting = killing? Yes hunting/fishing used to be an extra curricular club. Now bringing a pocket knife on school grounds will get you expelled and potentially jailed. Some states actually have declared the first day of deer season a state holiday. That is where you might start to put the smarts back in. Unfortunately that state is one where I know hunting beer cans is a popular sport.

Wow! Really classing it up...

"Wow! Really classing it up..."

Well if you shoot somebody in the face, we'll use you as the poster child for "morons who don't know how to safely handle firearms". Until then, it's Cheney. Deal with it.

Chouse,

Getting tired of correcting you all of the time. The human being attacked by the bear was shot in the chest, as per the article. PLEASE GET IT RIGHT!! I get tired of correcting your mis-quotes. And the article didnt say how he was hit or where the shot came from. Maybe, did you stop to think, it was a pass-thru round that was fired into the bear??

"The human being attacked by the bear was shot in the chest, as per the article. PLEASE GET IT RIGHT!!"

Wow you really have your head in a dark moist place today, don't you?

He was posting a joke thread, and I posted a smartass reply. I just read your reply to this one after replying to your previous rant (you have no clue kid). Seriously you need to get a clue.

"I get tired of correcting your mis-quotes."

Misquote? What was I quoting in the post above out of an article? A Misquote means to paraphrase something instead of directly quoting it, to attribute it to the wrong speaker, or a similar error. Not sure how one could have inferred me quoting somebody else with what I put in quotation marks in that post.

If you're going to troll the threads and try to nitpick, at least get a clue and use the correct terminology. And have a clue.

Where did I say that the guy in this article got shot in head head? Oh yeah, I DIDN'T. You just didn't like my previous post and are now just trying to find anything to whine about in my posts. Putz.

have to agree engnenk. Niagara Falls, Yosemite, Alaska, Yellow Stone just to name a few "Proofs" of your statement.

Thanks, Mctreadhorn. for a voice of wisdom in a sea of jerkwads.

Maybe the rest of the learned posters on Newsvine should enjoy a large cup of STFU and do a little research on the facts prior to engaging in ignorant trash talk.

They make me ashamed to be a liberal.

"Mac" and "Martin":

Having a hunting license means you paid the fee. It doesn't mean you have brains or hunting skills. Taking a bear ID program doesn't mean you paid attention. Most "hunters" want to get out in the field and shoot something. They see these programs as a waste of time.

The 20-year-old (Bell) shooter's father, WHO WASN'T THERE wants to save his son from possible manslaughter charges and $50,000 fine for illegally killing a grizzly bear AND for killing his friend. Why would anyone believe him? "Dad" claims "Shooter Son" Bell AND friend Stevenson "watched the bear for a few minutes" and it "didn't have the characteristics of a grizzly"; "no shoulder hump or facial signs" ... so Bell SHOT it! {BLACK BEARS are BROWN!}

The dead hunter (Stevenson) had been in the area before, but the OTHER GUY (Bell) shot the bear. Dad's story claims Shooter Son "couldn't tell if the bear was BROWN OR BLACK" and it "didn't have the identifying parts of a grizzly", and "it was the size of a Black Bear". Why did he start shooting without being SURE?

Stevenson's family (not there either) now claims Dead Man Stevenson "yelled at the bear" to keep it from attacking "Shooter" Bell. Was this before or AFTER Bell shot the bear? Why would a hunter yell at a charging bear instead of shooting it? If the wounded bear was lying in wait for these "Brainiacs", why would they not have their rifles ready to shoot as they stalked this bear?

Yelling at a wounded bear is not going to do much good and this statement is very suspicious. It doesn't make sense - This sounds to me like too many excuses and too many people are now trying to cover up the illegal and incompetent hunting habits of their ""DARWIN AWARD" family members.

The first time I read this story I imagined the shooter spraying bullets all over the area as a terrified Bell fired wildly to protect himself. This second read changed nothing. I'm wondering if Bell's frantic shooting was meant to take out anything that was still moving? He could have walked up close to the bear while he was mauling his friend and placed a kill shot wherever he wanted to. How did he manage to kill his friend instead?

I apologize. While I'm a Lifetime NRA member, I have little fondness for hunting and NONE for jerks with guns! Few facts have been available so far, but as time passes more incriminating evidence shows up that leads to a criminal negligence case. There's no doubt in my mind that had either or both these hunters been competent, NO bears or people would have gotten killed or injured that fateful day.

If the sheriff and county attorney do their jobs, Bell could wind up in jail for criminal negligence and manaslaughter with some heavy fines - for the Grizzly.

Mac having a license for X does not give you the privilege of shooting Y. It is ILLEGAL to shoot a grizzly in the lower 48. I have followed this story since it first posted several days ago. Perhaps the dead hunter did yell to save the one who shot him. I'm not debating that and very few others are either. It is amazing how some of the folks on here want their say and when they run out of FACTS, Logic or other fall back they resort to anger become GOD with the last word and post the STFU lines. When the average Joe sees things like that, it reinforces the low image of gun owners and hunters everywhere.

Many of the black bears here have brown coats and cinnamon colored coats. The male can top out around 400 pounds and be bigger than a female grizzly. This was I think an honest mistake gone very bad.

Great comment. Its to bad people just look for the bad in these tragic losses. I have hunted for 36 years in montana and have seen black, brown and grizzly bears. Sometimes they are very hard to find the differences out in the field. Fortunately i have never had to make the choice. As far as the young hunter who pulled the trigger, I can not imagine what you are feeleing. My deepest thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.

Stay off the internet and you will look less like an idiot.

Bob do you have a link to a site that shows the 90%? I MIGHT give you 50% if you want to throw in an all out shoot out.

How could you possibly know you had never mistaken one for the other?

We're people. We kill. Didn't you know that or are you new to this planet?

Um, they do have refuges, they're called game preserves. And, like in this case, certain species are off-limits to be hunted. No that doesnt stop them from being hunted. But, if caught, you loose your firearms (all on site), license (for life), your vehicle, and a hefty fine. Many hunters choose to keep what they went into the woods with, though other are stupid and try to risk it. Unfortunatly, some succed and thank God, others get caught or fail.