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How about the $millions spent on free health-care for illegal aliens in our prisons every year? If they are here on non-violent crimes, send them back!
Give them a $16 dollar muffin first.
Don't forget the $8 coffee to wash it down with.
We now have 51 million Americans without access to affordable health-care and the illegals in our prisons get free medical and dental services?
What the hell is wrong with this picture?
Stay on topic! This is about the DOJ. Remember! Always trying to blame others and re-route the discussion.
Someone needs to investigate the cost overruns in Congress. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. WE are paying for their "free" medical care, spa, etc. in the Capital Building. We pay for their free postage rights while the USPS is going broke. They need to start to cut their own budgets before they consider cutting other people's budgets. Maybe none of them have ever been involved in planning conferences. Hotels always jack up the price of the food because the price includes the room(s) where the conference is held, the tables, chairs, table covers, staffing, etc.
Man, a $16 muffin must taste super good!!!!!!
Dear Politician Criminals,
How about cutting out stupid crap like this BEFORE increasing taxes?
The problem with government is that they have no concept of what a dollar is worth and no concept of "spending it like it's my own". I have no doubt that if you cut the entire federal budget by 10% to 20%, they would somehow figure out how to get everything done today that they get done, because there is at LEAST that much waste in government.
Why not make wasting taxpayer dollars a federal offense and start locking up some of the worst offenders. They are, after all, stealing from us, the taxpayers.
You'd never get that through Congress Bruce, since they are the cause of wasteful spending and some of the most guilty offenders.
Why is everyone upset; wake up and smell the coffee; they do not give a damn, they are the rulers, the elite, the lawmakers, they could care less about Middle Class America, the middle class is just a nuisance to them, much like dog poo on the soles of your shoes, just wipe it off and go do what you want; America , it is already too late, we put the Congress in power, they sold out to the highest bidder.
aren't there more classes in this country than just the middle class. Define middle class for me. I believe that moochers think it's around 30k per year.
@ironbalance: This is on topic. The DOJ operates the Federal Bureau of Prisons with our tax money!
While in the military I went to plenty of conferences and planned a couple of them. All the happy crap set out at the conferences had to be paid for by people attending the conferences. None of it was covered by the government under the contract for the conference. Guess DOJ gets to play by a different set of rules.
Bassai= agreed.
Also when the military does buy stuff it has to be from a GSA approved vendor which scalps the government because it was made by the Blind, def, amputee, women owned, etc.... nothing better then being forced to buy POS skillcraft pens for big bucks when you can get better pens from say walmart or even staples and still be cheaper...
they failed to mention the worst part of the article..... they were IMPORTED MUFFINS FROM CHINA!!!!!
but really why are we surprised? Everyone should go buy a cheap stale day old D&D muffin and throw it at congress every day now until the reps pay it back.
What the EFF!
That has changed a bit. They still have to buy furniture from UNICOR unless they get a waiver. Office supplies and stuff like that you can get using your government purchase card from Staples, Office Depot, etc. Likewise you can get GSA rates from Lowes or Home Depot.
This is a deeply misleading article. Complete and utter BS.
First, any federal government meeting that I have attended as consultant since 2002 does not allow feeding government employees. That is the rule. So any food that is served at conferences (and that is rare) is specifically for invited attendees and not supposed to be consumed by government staff. I have seen them bring their lunch and beverages again and again. The rule is followed scrupulously. If they eat, they have to pay for it out of pocket. So the article implies Justice Department staff were at the trough and that is most probably not the case.
Second, if you bring people in from all over the country to participate in a conference or meeting, the law requires that you give either food or a per diem which is $70 for Washington DC. It is better to feed attendees since then they can work while they are eating instead of wasting time going out to get something, and coming back.
Third, the muffin is not what costs $16.00. That is really just lying to say that. This is how hotels charge for services. They prorate all of their costs over individual food items. So you are buying staff and service, overhead costs like equipment and space, etc. These things are really very expensive in Washington DC which has one of the highest costs of living rates in the world, and hotels everywhere are notorious for using these opportunities to make cash. Have you bought anything from a hotel minibar lately?
Fourth, agencies have budgets just like everyone else. I stopped having to attend most meetings in person a couple of years ago, when we started to have online conferences and Webinars. That is the direction everyone is going in these days. People don't want the hassle or the expense of conferences in their budgets anymore than any business does.
These types of inflammatory articles which omit critical information are really just stupid. They are good for online business as people click on them, but there are not news and they are not even good reporting.
Maybe they were discussing the latest strategy for Fast and Furious and needed a quick snack and coffee before shipping 2,000 machine guns to mexican drug cartel assassins.
Keep up the good work Atty. Gen. Holder.
"Looking good Billy Ray."
"Feeling' good, Louis."
This is just bad reporting, as they did not say if that was the normal rate at the Hilton, nor did they say what was paid for the room.
There's a difference between meals covered by that per diem and the coffee & fat pills being scarfed down during breaks.
Thought - Just wondering what law requires that you feed people if you hold a conference. Is that just if the government sponsors the conference. I've planned lots of conferences and know of no such law.
Even in DC (I live and work here), a muffin is not $16, nor is a cup of coffee $8. You can both at the coffee shop downstairs for $3.59.
Hey People,
when is the last time you looked at catering fees for in any hotel? Even in house company cafeterias stick to you with ridiculous costs.
DOJ likely just paid to going rate.
I guess they like going to Starbuck's too. That price is about right. LOL
'get both'
my editing change didn't save.... :(
We really have a screwed up system. IF a government agency has a budget, and they don't spend ALL of the money they are given, they won't get as much the following year.
So instead of encouraging spending less, the system punishes that.
So unless the system is changed, no amount of taxation is going to continually cover the increased spending.
We don't have an income problem, we have a spending problem.
Why is everyone overlooking what AThoughtOr2 said... Hotels and catering companies OVERCHARGE for items that we know shouldn't cost that much. Why did the hotel charge our government that much money for a muffin. Shouldn't we be upset with them too!!!!
For the Legal Conference, the planning services may be worth $100,000 so let's say $500,000 was over-spent for that. Let's say the muffins, delivered, ar worth $5. That's $6 over-spent per muffin. Come on, cookies and brownies $10? Not worth more than $3 delivered. That's $7 over-spent per cookie or muffin. Even Starbuck's Coffee is $4. That's $4 overspent for each cup of coffee.
Dock Justice Department employee salaries immediately for the over-expenditures.
AThoughtOr2 - unless you were at the conferences in question, you can't really say whether the statements made in the article are incorrect. There are thousands of conferences held every year, both government related and not. How do you presume to know all the rules and regulations unless you planned and attended them?
To AThoughtOr2 ~ I am glad you came up with an alternative conclusion. I figured there probably was another side, but since I only ever attended teacher conferences, I've never been treated to such nice breakfasts. Still seems too expensive.
How about investigating the private businesses that gouged the DOJ. They are accomplices in this story. But I guess it's alright for a "small business" to take advantage of taxpayers.
Ever hear of free enterprise, once upon a time before the government took over running the country, a business priced its commodity or product and the buyer had the choice of using them or another company. The DOJ could have gone elsewhere for its muffins, but, hey, they weren't paying for it so who cares, right? Then Obama needs more tax monies, guess those government perks start to add up.
Perhaps Holder wanted to live large like his boss, seems the liqour and food bills for the many White House get-togethers hosted by Obama were/are a tad, lavish. Reminds me of the French court with Marie. Or, a better analogy would be the Soviet Union where the political elite lived like kings while the common folks got to eat potatoes and sweep the sidewalks.
Exactly why I won't listen or support a thing Obama says until he starts talking about cutting government spending.
No need to do that....just drop their funding by 50% and let them figure out a way to make it work.
That's what I want.
No more '10 years by CBO estimates'
I want to hear 'Halving their budget, effective next year."
Not their budget increase. Their current budget.
wonder why the GOP/TPers in congress don't suggest cutting this ridiculous expense, along with the $500 toilet seat, etc.
Hey....wait a minute.....
Were these "cookie makers" JOBS SAVED or JOB CREATED for the number of jobs in Mr. Obama's Stimulus #1 Program ?
Well, Mr. Obama....where is your campaign promise to do a top-down review of ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES for Fraud, Waste, and Abuse ? Oh, that one goes on the "back burner" along with your Laser Beam Focus on Job creation since the Spring of 2009.
what the hell is in a $16 muffin??????
Government is a NOT FOR PROFIT entity so they don't care if they pay $16.00 for a muffin that a for profit company would pay $1.50 for. They don't have to worry about the bottom line. They have and continue to be run like they are teenagers with Dad's credit card. They don't look at the bill because someone else pays for it. They don't care what the bill is, because someone else pays for it.
Now you can buy into Obama's class warfare or you can admit that no sane person wants to pay more in taxes because this kind of foolish, ignorant spending goes on in every sector of the government, every day.
marlen101917
How about the $millions spent on free health-care for illegal aliens in our prisons every year? If they are here on non-violent crimes, send them back!
YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YESYES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YE SYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
They're "special" muffins! Same with the Alice B. Tokeless brownies. Just goes to prove that the Gummint sandcrabs out there are addicts to spending and are chronically f**ked up and "high"...
How about prosecuting / terminating whoever authorized the expenditures (obviously they're incompetent to perform their job responsibly) and the caterer/facility for fraud, deception and theft.
More theft occurs with a fountain pen than with a gun!
All the more reason to grow government! Its so efficient as compared to the free market concepts. Just listen to Obama, government can do it better!!!
This is why they want to cut social security and disability benefits, so the can buy $16 muffins?
We are in the 3rd year of a recession and these clowns are buying $8 cups of coffee and $10 cookies.They have completely lost touch with the plight of average americans.Their blatant disregard for what is in the best interest of this country and its people is appalling.
balogna sandwich
About 12 cents worth of dough.
If you think someone from this department of extravagant expenditures voicing outrage is going to do anything...........think again. Voicing outrage is a placate to the offended, or in this case those who pay the bills, and will likely result in absolutely nothing being done.
Why not shop at Costco or some other group buy place?
SPOILED!!!!........they should all bring a sack lunch and snacks to work like the rest of us and out of their own pocket................
explain to me again why the tax payer must buy such things for these folks.....a corporation for profit would buy like this and deduct it but the US Government is not for profit is it?........no more free lunch.
Don't they mean we the tax payers paid $8.00 per cup of coffee and $16.00 per muffin for them.
Eight bucks will buy me a 2 lb. can of store brand coffee and for $16.00 I can make a whole sh!t load of muffins.
Does anyone else see the irony here???
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE GOT ROBBED!!! LOL, I love it!
I would be intensely entertained here, but I'm paying for that.
I was wondering what these co-ksuckers do when they aren't busy terrorizing American manufacturing firms.
How can anyone not roll their eyes in stark disbelief when they read -
Is that the best defence the Justice Department can come up with? Boy, are we in trouble!
Since when did the use of Common Sense have to be written into law before being implemented?
The reason careless spending such as this occurs is these elites don't have to reach down into their own pockets to pay for the goods. They have been accustomed to sucking on the taxpayers public teat for far too damn long. Perhaps it's time to have them attend these conferrences in the old 'Bring your own brown bag' to the meeting??? Of course many of those brown bags would then be sheathing a bottle of their preferred alcoholic beverage, no doubt.
I being from Iowa, Senators Chuck Grassley and Tom Harkin are ones to talk. They don't care about a Fair tax or spending. They only want to keep their jobs in Washington! All incumbents need to be replaced.
I'll bet that when the info comes out about the bar tabs we've been footing, $16 muffins will look like a great idea!
Nope, a sixteen dollar muffin is still waaay overpriced, especially when you can get a decent muffin for less than $3.00, hell, you can get two muffins. Muffins. How pathetic. If you're going to gouge the taxpayer then you should go all out, have truffles and lobster and pate foi gras, anything but....muffins.
Nothing different there. All MUST PAY TAXES while our government officials get to eat cake. Any one remember the air force toilet seats? The ones who signed off on these expenditures MUST pay back We the People. Oh yeah, representative government really works for me. Direct vote NOW!
It is not $millions. In 2004 the State of California paid over $10 BILLION USDs for Illegal Aliens, $7.7 Billion of Education of Illegal Aliens, $1.4 Billion for Health Care for Illegal Aliens,and $1.4 Billion for the Incarceration of violent Illegal Aliens (Murder, Rape, Armed Assault, Gang Initiations (random rape, then murder (no witnesses) as violent crime used to retain Gang Members (Blackmail).).
To bad so sad, you can no longer get rid of the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US.
As President Obama's 2011 Illegal Alien Policy to circumvent the US Citizens and US Congress, President Obama, "Only Criminal Illegal Immigrants will be deported".
Any one with a brain knows that those $600 USAF Toilet Seats were made to keep all the sh!t in the USAF Aircraft sh!tter, including if the USAF Transport Aircraft had to take evasive actions (including going inverted, upside down) to avoid being shot down. This is just like the ignorance of the US Citizens (sounds good, but is non factual) about the $400 Hammer, non sparking manufactured by US Labor Union, to use with Ammunition and High Explosives (think about that).
Yes, it would be way cheaper to to just buy the identical items from the Chinese Military and Russian Federation Military, instead of the US. As US Code (US Law) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services" (rare exemptions granted by US Congress).
They did not get "ROBBED", didn't you know that the code word "Muffin" is for a Prostitute (to use the term "Tart" or "Crumpet" would be too obvious), for the price of $4,200 and the quantity of 250 is for the room number, or the number of minutes, etc., and the "cover" pastry muffins were bought from some wholesale warehouse membership store.
This article is older than dinosaur sh!t, and does not have all the information. As originally stated, "$4,200 for 250 Muffins" (someone else, newsmedia, calculated the $16 per Muffin from the original report.).
Bassai, "While in the military I went to plenty of conferences and planned a couple of them. All the happy crap set out at the conferences had to be paid for by people attending the conferences. None of it was covered by the government under the contract for the conference. Guess DOJ gets to play by a different set of rules." Actually, you're right. The attendees DID pay for it, but those attendees were government defense contractors and the like who had very lucrative contracts and were EXPECTED to wine and dine the officers, etc. during factory tours, testings, and the like. I worked for a military defense contractor and the DCAS office ALWAYS had the best holiday parties, etc.
This happens in the non-profit sector, too. And of course it happens in the for-profit sector, as each tries to out do the other.
This is nothing new. I agree it shouldn't happen. But to those of you who are shouting that waste and fraud needs to be weeded out before taxes raised, I have a question: Are you aware that the Obama Administration has prosecuted and recovered more money through the perpetration of Medicare Fraud in three years than the Bush Administration did in eight? It was on the news a couple of weeks ago but didn't get very much press even for one day. I'd say the Obama Administration IS serious about rooting out waste, fraud and abuse. And it's about time that a President took it seriously!
add to post#1.54.
The $1.7 Billion USDs calculated from those that did not collect Tax Returns by not filing Income Tax Returns (especially US Citizens, not Illegal Aliens) hardly pays for the over $10 Billion USDs spent on Illegal Aliens.
As Illegal Aliens do not fill out Employer Paperwork (Income Tax Withholding (Felony Criminal Tax Evasion), deductions for Medical Dental Vision, deductions for Social Security, etc..). As "Cash For Work Only", as ICE uses Employer Paperwork to obtain Search Warrants of Businesses.
So, marlen101917, calculate the numbers ($Billions USDs) for all 50 States then add the numbers together as the $Billions USDs of US Taxpayer money spent on Illegal Aliens Nationwide.
Nice right-handed tactic... change the subject to immigration. idiots.
Grassley is correct. I'm mad as hell! That damn Obama!!!! ... wait. that... was fiscal 2008 and 2009 and new processes were put in place by the new administration. Oh.
Bush. No regulation. No auditors. No watchdogs. No care. Explains it all... ALL.
REALLY. LOL. ROTFLMAO. Go after $Millions USDs, ignore the $Billions USDs. President Obama, Face the Nation, September 20, 2009:
Hint: "Uncle Sam" is YOU.
Ask yourself why President Obama did not fix this with the Health Care Reform Act, and instead rewarded the "Insurance Industry" with $67 Billion USDs (Section on Revenues) and Mandatory purchase of Insurance (more suckers placed in the "High Risk" Category, and unaffordable Premiums). And the US Citizens get the BIG BILL of $1.7 Billion USDs (adjusted for Inflation $2.1 Trillion USDs), as Insurance Industry gets $67 Billion USDs, Medical Device Industry gets $20 Billion USDs, Pharmaceuticals Industry gets $23 Billion USDs. This is what needs to be Cut out of the US Budget, while only retaining Preexisting Conditions. (yes, I read the whole f**king boring arse thing).
Can you say $1 Billion USDs of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions, as made Legal just before Health Care Reform Act became US Law (President Obama's Buddy "Mr. Corporate America" Legal Briefed the US Supreme Court, long before the Citizens United case was heard by the US Supreme Court. The "Leverage" used by "Mr. Corporate America" was either make Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions Legal OR Invalidate the 2008-2009 Elections, for his ("Mr.Corporate America") admitted violations of US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act prior to and during the Elections. In 2011, after the US Supreme Court Decision (Ruling) for Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions, "Mr.Corporate America" was slapped on the wrist with a fine of $200,000 for Violating US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.).
Guess you did not even read the first sentence of the article:
Seems that the last descriptive word of your sentence above is about yourself.
Nice FAILED attempt at Bush Bashing, What the F**K did you hire Candidate Obama to do? Go around making Campaign Speeches? "Look and Sound like a President"? (what most of you posted on newsvine during the Elections, looks versus substance (stated during the Presidential Debates as documented verbal contracts to the US Citizens.).).
Well david, we know Uncle Sam isn't related to Obama.....he's not drunk and here illegally.
david-475776
Okay. I've read this ten times. I need help here. Can everyone please read the above and read the article and tell me where the — immigration is even mentioned... illegal or otherwise? If it's in there, then I'm the idiot. If not, then David, you are EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
And exactly why was my "Bush bashing" a failure? Bush decimated the regulatory environment and Cheney was immersed in the whole "over charge the government" thing with Haliburton... goes right along with "deficits don't matter".
Obama has accomplished ten times what Bush accomplished in half the time. And Obama's accomplishments were all positive!
Read the story again folks. 2008 and 2009 fiscal years. Those are Bush's DOJ, not the current administration. Remember that fiscal years run from 10/1 to 9/30, so 2009 fiscal year was still under Bush's fiscal watch. It's taken them nearly three fiscal years to realize this "cost over-run" in Congress? As I said before, but in another way, the fox (Congress) is in the hen house. We need an independent audit of Congress, its staff, and all proceedings and "in-house" benefits they receive at OUR expense. Then let them go after the departments and agencies under the administration's control. I really like the few states that control their legislature's salaries through an independent compensation commission. We need the same thing on the federal level. It's time for a constitutional amendment for that, along with the election/campaign finance reform amendment.
david-475776
You mean the same toilet seat I have on my sailing yacht made out of stainless steel and with a nice lock on it along with a seal to keep sh!t in the sh!tter during heavy weather? Yeah I bought one of those. Didn't cost 600 dollars. Maybe you mean a hammer made out of bronze which is utilized on just about any refinery? I have one of those as well in the engine room. Didn't cost near 400 dollars. You can not convince me that no fraud is perpetrated onto the American tax payers.
BTW, it isn't the toilet seat which prevents liquids from falling out of the can. It is the fact that the toilets themselves remain dry after use through the use of a vacuum system and valves. Once in the tank all liquids are secured.
any plane that is big enough to need a toilet isn`t going to get away no matter how much evasive manuvering it does.
even if by some miracle the plane did get away that doesn`t justify paying an obscene amount of money for a toilet seat just so some crap does`t fall out of the toilet.Whats the worst that could happen if the toilet contents did spill out? Someone would just have to clean it up after the plane lands.
A lot of people call out the President, why don't he do something!
why just Him? why don't others get to help? stop these wasteful practices?
I like the one posters thought on this, cut the budgets 20% across the board! then we wont have to blame anyone, just take the savings!!!
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson.
16 dollars is probably quite cheap, I bet the amount the taxpayers pay for high paid escorts, and strippers is much higher. They better get more taxpayers to fund these high rollers spending sprees. I don't think they got the memo the country is broke! 20% consumption tax for all let them fund their own sh*t. We can choose not to spend.
Different neighborhoods. Fortunately I did not have to spend much time in the procurement arena. The conferences I went to most of the attendees were military or government employees, they were either facility managers, training managers or Contracting Officers Technical Representatives. Usually there was only one contractor involved who was responsible for a world wide contract.
He is the chief executive officer and these administrative branches are under him. He has all the power to control the spending but he doesn't and he spends himself. It is his responsibility and that is why he is the one getting called out on this.
Wrong! Even the president has a boss. And the boss is the shadow govenment.
Sort of like being charged $12 for and Advil at our hospitals! In government wherever there is fraud those departments should be immediately cut.
Kelly, actually you are not being ripped off by paying 12 dollars for an advil. You are paying for all of those people that don't pay their costs. Also, you are paying for a pharmacist to dispense the medicine and a licensed person to give you that medicine. But mostof all, like I said, you are paying for all of those that don't pay. The government says that all patients will be treated regardless of ability or desire to pay! If you were a Mercedes dealer and the government said," You will give anyone who comes in the door whatever they want and you can't charge for it!" How long do you think you'd be in business unless you marked up the prices on those who do pay? I do understand your frustration with this and it is a fact, if the government is involved there will be fraud! The politicians don't care how much it costs because it isn' their money! They think they can always get more from us, the taxpayers! Obama has increased the size of government tremendously and now we have to pay for all of the new people and of course their snacks and coffee! It is ludicrious! Red
@ Red, Seriously? A pharmacist and licensed person to dispense an over the counter drug?
Red- Do you realize how many hundreds of people would have to get a free Advil in order to justify a charge of $12/dose???
That aside from the fact that for those that can't pay the hospitals are able to write off those loses.
Don't be so surprised. Look at one of the changes under Obamacare, as of last January you have to have a prescription in order to get reimbursed by your HSA for an OTC medication.
Do you really think an Advil in a hospital is priced solely to cover the cost of dispensing free Advil?
Actually, Red makes a valid point, as does Bassai. When a person walks into an ER with the sniffles, countless employees will touch the patient's case before, during, and after treatment. It's called overhead. The pill is of no consequence. And those expenses come out of the pockets of those that pay.
Don't worry. Obama Care will simply take it out of the taxpayer's pockets even if they never see the inside of a hospital. Who else is going to pay the premiums for illegals and indigent among us?
Healthcare is going the way of our education system. Lower the quality so that everyone can enjoy it.
Yeah, right.
If the doctor's prescribe an over the counter drug to you in the hospital you self administer that drug for $0.00 extra costs. It varies by state but in MD hospitals can not prohibit a patient from administering their own OTC drugs. A whole bottle of Advil or the genertic Ibubrofen is only about $6.00 for 100 capsules versus $12.00 for one. Know your rights and most of all EXERCISE THEM. You can't expect the rest of society to protect you, you must be vigilant for yourself and your family.
Darryl-3181220, seriously. It does not matter if it is prescribed or OTC. There are policies and procedures applied at all hospitals that are intended to ensure quality, efficiency and effectiveness. They are universally applied. If they are not, hospitals lose their accreditation.
Maingear, your partisan perspective is keeping you deeply ignorant. Can you actually state one single fact based piece of information about your so-called "Obamacare?" What exactly is it in PPACA that you do not agree with? If you can't say, that means you are speaking from propaganda, nothing else. Go ahead and be a tool for the far right if you want to, I would rather think for myself.
The US pays dramatically more than any other country on the planet for health care, yet the quality of care is comparable to some third-world countries, it is so poor on average. The reason for this is that we have a huge private bureaucracy called health insurers that do not provide a single health service but that consumes billions of dollars in health care dollars. They are oriented to fee-for-service based profit, and not to improving the quality, effectiveness and efficiency of care. They have actually nothing to do with health care at all.
PPACA changes that orientation and has already been shown to reduce costs and improve quality by millions of dollars where accountable care organizations and patient health care "homes" (teams of care professionals who know the patient), have been implemented.
If you want no government and none of the privileges and and benefits that come from that, move to Somalia.
Andy you are incorrect. We can't stop you from providing your own medication, but we can keep you from taking it yourself. And Darryl, yes a licensed person (a nurse) to administer the medicatio to you.
This is NOTHING in comparison with the expenses by Hillary Clinton as she moved her Washington, DC office to an expensive hotel in New York for the UN meeting this week. Everything, The whole staff. Amazing. Probably more money than I will make in a lifetime.
How can the government ask us to give them more money?
Darryl - once you are in a hospital, it is no longer OTC. It has to be dispensed by a licensed pharmacist by law.
Unless the law has changed in the last 10 years, in PA you could not give yourself OTC meds while in the hospital. They could interact with whatever was being given to you by doctor's orders.
Red is correct. The cost for each item is to cover the TOTAL cost to operate the hospital. In our area, the only fully equipped Heart center for many miles around is in our Hospital. Multiple millions of dollars in cost. Everyone from far and wide celebrated when this capability was added to the hospital. Guess what, all costs were raised to cover this unit.
If Ron Paul gets elected he will put an end to $12 advils. If you don`t have health insurance you`ll be locked out of the hospital and left to die in the street, while people spit on you and cheer the death of another uninsured deadbeat.
Vote Ron Paul 2012
This is about like the city of Des Moines charging me for water and waste at my house I no longer live in. They say it's an availability charge. Maybe I should send them a bill for my services being available?
This is exactly why raising income taxes is not the answer. The government will find a way to spend it.
How about we reign in the spending in all the governmental departments before we ask the citizens for more money
Sorry dave, you have it only half right. I will concede that we are spending too much but people like you need to concede that we are also not taking in enough money to fund the government properly. The problem is at both ends and this country's budgetary problems will not be solved simply by cutting the government. Taxes must be raised, especially on the wealthy, who are the only group of Americans who have prospered over the past 30 years. This country will never get its fiscal house in order unless taxes go up and spending goes down.
That doesn't make any sense. They have more than enough revenue, they just have way too many commissions, agencies and the like. We could do away with 99% of the government and the country wouldn't miss a beat. As it stands now, no, they don't have enough money to operate.
Let's get government back to the size it was when Clinton left office, adjusted for inflation. If we don't have revenues to cover that amount of government, then I'm open to discussing new taxes (but my understanding is, even at today's low revenue numbers due to unemployment, we have as much as we did then).
We need a thorough review of where and how government is spending our money. I have direct experience, and I believe we could cut 20+% from government spending without negatively affecting core services. Yes, this means some layoffs - and that will increase unemployment costs until they find a job - but a few years down the road that means we have a healthier economy.
Right now, both parties have it wrong. Republicans want to cut benefits in programs that are mainly used by Democratic voters, and Democrats want to increase taxes without making an effort to spend more efficiently and effectively. Basically, both parties are playing politics instead of trying to solve the problems.
I will agree to disagree with you. I think the government takes in enough money as it is. Why give the government more money when they can't effectively manage what they have. This article is about 1 department only, can you imagine if we had an independent audit of all government agencies. My guess is between the waste, redundancy and outright fraud, we could trim our deficit to at least a manageable level if not eliminate it altogether.
I will concede that cutting the government alone is not the answer, or the only answer. Reallocation of our money has definately got to be part of it. And if we still come up short, then by all means we should raise taxes. The problem with raising taxes first is that once the government has the money and it no longer needs it, you're not getting it back. They will find a way to spend whatever they get
I think that the Appropriations Committee delegated the task of finding the waste and fraud in Washington. And if I heard correctly, that funding is being cut. Interesting, those that scream the loudest to stop the waste and fraud are cutting the funding to find it. Looks like someone has something to hide.
Not when you spend $10 BILLION/MONTH on 2 pointless wars for 10 years.
This from one of the other MSNBC stories points to the flaw in this logic.
Like the rest of the country the government needs to cut expenses, get rid of waste, and learn to work with in its budget. It's stories like this that cause most Americans to roll their eyes at claims that "taxes need to be increased", or "we're going to have to cut services", if the government would just clean up its act and reduce waste ( this includes billions spent on services for illegals) then they could most likely balance the budget.
Billions of our tax dollars are wasted on, insane projects & programs, doing studies to see if this will work or that will work and aid to countries that hate us.
gaithersburger, you are only half right also. Dave hit it pretty square. Government offices spent their budgets... even if they don't need to spend the mnoney, just to make sure that they are allocated the same amount the following fiscal year. Just think... a department is responsible all year until budget time rolls around and they have a surplus of budget left. Instead of putting it back, they buy new desks, chairs, have a party... whatever... just to make sure the money is spent and they get the same budget for the next year. I learned this from a couple friends that worked in government offices and it drove me nuts. Just think... they ALL probably do that! Ever wonder what would happen if an audit of the last 5 years purchases would happen? Maybe show a little pattern?
Dumping this on getting more taxes is simply stupid. The government is too large as it is right now. It has over-reached its original purpose. Being a politician was never meant to be a career... it was meant to be a service to your country. It isn't being run by the smartest or brightest that we have, but just the opposite. We need leaders to pull us together as one country, not to rip us apart into reps/ conservative/ reds and dems/ liberals/ blues. The sad thing... whenever someone points this out, they get railed by either or both of the 2 gangs. The country is falling apart and taking more money from the rich isn't going to save it... it will only make you feel better.
Gaithersburg....
Sorry but Dave has it right...How do you know how much the Government needs until they cut waste, review and revise the tax code, eliminate duplication of Federal Programs and ferret out those who steal from and abuse the support of the American Tax payer.
This article is exposing an obvious waste that is costing hundreds of thousands of dollars....Just one department. Doesn't the DOD have access to a conference room? Could they make a choice to use a more affordable and reasonable facility and to use some common sense when it comes to catering a meeting? Does everything have to resort to a written regulation rather than people making common sense choices? We are mad for regulation and defined lines in this country and far too eager to shift the blame.
Cut before taxing. It is their responsibility as it is the responsibility to reach for assistance because it is needed not because it is free.
Tyranny; [tir-uh-nee]
1.) Arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power, despotic abuse of authority.
2.) The government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler.
3.) A state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler.
4.) Oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler.
5.) Undue severity or harshness.
6.) A tyrannical act or proceeding.
Who is this government working for??
WHEN and "only when" these parasitical scum in Washington fully eliminate the staggering amount of wasteful, gluttonous spending on crap just like this, and more...
only THEN would I ever support ANY type of increased taxation...
period.
Only "complete fools" believe in the "increasing revenues story" which is nothing more than an EXCUSE for the parasitical scum in Washington to spend, spend and spend us in to oblivion.
Actually, every reliable analysis has concluded that even if we were able to eliminate 100% of all government waste and abuse that we still would come within a country mile of balancing the budget which is precisely why it will take a combination of reducing spending (including waste and abuse), increasing taxes and reforming the tax code to get us back in the black and on a sound footing moving forward.
Also, in case you missed it, the story is about fiscal year '08-'09 and the current DOJ has already taken action to reform the old practices.
What I want to know is were the vendors providing the $16 muffins and $8 coffee in any way connected to people in the Bush administration's DOJ and were these services/products provided via 'no bid contracts' as so much of what the Bush administration wasted out taxpayer dollars on.
Ronin
"Actually, every reliable analysis has concluded that even if we were able to eliminate 100% of all government waste and abuse that we still would come within a country mile of balancing the budget"
What reliable analysis are you referencing in making such a statement? Has there ever been an independant audit of any department of the federal government that hasn't turned up this kind of waste? This is 1 department on 1 day. Multiply that by the number of departments and the numbers have to be staggering.
Waste and abuse are only part of the problem, what about redundancy? How many departments overlap each other? What about lobbyists? How much of the budget is wasted catering to lobbyists?
RoninColorado,
I think the definition of waste is debatable. When I talk about waste I don't just mean articles like this one, or cases where 2 agencies are handling the same function, I'm also talking about efficiency. For example, I would like to see most government programs reviewed to see if they are still worth continuing, and if so, if they can be done more efficiently. I realize a lot of what happens is done due to legislative mandates - so legal changes may be needed to make certain changes - but that process needs to be started.
I have worked in and for government (state and federal), and the amount of waste I see is astounding. I think it's become so ingrained, people in government don't even realize how much could be cut without affecting core services.
By the way, I am in no way bashing government employees. My problem is with the system.
All of you who are saying that we already take in enough revenue need only to look at the historical numbers to see that this is not the case. I don't have the numbers handy but I'm sure you can find this information pretty easily on the internet. Federal taxes are at their lowest levels in decades and right now only about 15% of GDP goes toward federal taxes, compared to a historical average closer to 20%. This is a direct result of the huge tax cuts passed by Bush and is a big reason why we have such huge deficits, along with the overspending. Those tax cuts primarily benefited the wealthy and they need to expire. All economists worth their salt agree on this point.
RumbleBee said "We could do away with 99% of the government and the country wouldn't miss a beat". This is one of the dumbest things ever uttered. Are we really prepared to get rid of national defense, regulation and monitoring of our food supply and the air we breathe? Or how about airline security, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? Or countless other programs that benefit us all? That would be national suicide.
Sure, blame Bush but then don't even mention that wonderful 500 million dollar "loan" Obama gave to the bankrupt company that helped raise money for his election. But Bush, but Bush, wake up, they all do it until we stop them.
Revenues are still lower than they were a few years ago.
Gaithersburger,
After about a year lag time (which was expected), revenues went up after the Bush tax cuts - until the recession hit. Tax revenues are down because of the current unemployment level. I do agree on the overspending (wars, prescription D, stimulus, etc.).
Who benefited from the tax cuts depends on how you are measuring it. Obviously, on an individual basis, the upper 2% got the most benefit. However, the 10 year estimates for the Bush tax cuts are around $3.2 Trillion in lost revenue - of which, $2.4 Trillion is for the lower 98%. So, in total, the lower 98% is getting a much larger tax break.
By the way, I was against the Bush tax cuts from the beginning and I'm still against them. The only difference is, I want to remove them for everyone - not just the upper 2%.
Ronin - You are operating under the assumption that government needs to perform all of the tasks currently being performed and that is why you claim taxes need to be raised.
Secondly, you are totally incorrect as to this being a Bush administration issue. The Bush administration spent approximately $47.8 million while the Obama justice department spent about $73.3 million. Your blaming Bush is inaccurate.
How did our people make it when we didn't have so many government agencies? Take law enforcement for example, we have the FBI, DEA, U.S. Marshals, Secret Service, Homeland Security, ICE, etc... Plus all of the state law enforcement, police, sheriff, SBI, Highway Patrol. We just keep adding more departments. EPA, DOE, etc... They never go away we still have a Department of Indian Affairs (I'm suprised they haven't changed the name). All of them have huge budgets and are compelled to spend all of their allocated budget so it won't be cut. The agencies have no incentive to cut costs. As long as government is run in such a fashion they'll always be screaming for more money!
Gaithersburger
"Waste is worse than loss. The time is coming when every person who lays claim to ability will keep the question of waste before him constantly. The scope of thrift is limitless."
Thomas A. Edison
Nobody is advocating eliminating defense, but our Constitution does not provide for any of those other programs you advocate. We as a society deemed Social Security, Medicare etc to be important investments in our society.
What doesn't make sense to me is sending my tax dollars to Washington, only to get them back minus the cost of overhead. Especially when the overhead costs as much as it does. Programs run by government are money pits. It is so ingrained in the politicians that all this money we send to Washington is needed and is never adequate to do the job. I don't think they could spot waste if it came up and bit them in the a$$.
All I'm asking for is a full accounting of where my money goes before they ask for more.
dave-3962967 - I wasn't even suggesting that the fact that the DOJ in this one particular instance 'fixes' the problem of waste abuse, unnecessary redundancies etc. BTW- the GAO has done repeated studies over the course of quite a number of administration identifying all manners of waste and unfortunately one administration after another ha largely ignored or one made some minimal efforts to act on.
The most recent bipartisan effort to identify the sources of our nation's financial imbalance as well as solutions came in the form of the Committee On Fiscal Responsibility and Reform which reached the conclusion that I previously mentioned that it would require reductions in spending (including/especially waste) AND tax increases AND tax reform to get our fiscal house in order. In addition quite a number of 'think tanks' liberal, conservative and ostensibly neutral have concurred with the Committee's conclusions since they were released early this year.
Its worth noting that in just the first 18 months of Obama's administration over 160 agencies and departments within the federal government were eliminated or consolidated in order to trim down some of the waste and duplication that has come to run amok in the federal government and that is a process that is ongoing.
Don't start pointing fingers... they are ALL slimy. For everything thing you point out for one person, you can point out something for someone else. DC is a mud pit and they are all dirty. Quit trying to make like any of them are clean.
As for all of the programs that the government runs, those all can be run at state level. State's used to run everything and the fed used to protect us and just maintain the "unity of the Union". Protect our food? The FDA has done such a good job catching all of those drugs with the horrible side effects, haven't they?
I know... states wouldn't be able to do what the government does because they are just as corrupt, if not worse. I'm not going to argue that. No one does anything about it, tho. For a country that has the ability to vote, we are one of the worst when it comes to taking advantage of that right. We don't care who leads us... and THAT is why we are falling apart. We just don't care. Sad... isn't it?
Ok so thats one way to say we have a revenue problem..
How bout I throw it right back at you and say it this way. I forget where I saw it at, but like your numbers should be pretty easy to find..
Compare the percentage of GDP we have used with spending. Right now we are spending more, as a percentage of our GDP then we ever have.
Point blank, Taxes are the Gvmnts paycheck. they should not be ( except for emergencies ) be spending more then they collect. Just as you and I cannot goto our boss and say, ohh I spent too much the last two years I need a raise to cover my debt, the gvmnt should not be able to come to us and say Opps, we spent to much time to fork over more of your money in taxes.
Pass a Balanced budget amendment, prove to the taxpayer that you can live within your means, then we can talk about raising taxes to pay down/off the debt.
Most people here have it right. Government waste is bad, but getting rid of it isn't going to get us out of the hole. I know it's the new American Way to try to think of any possible way to wiggle out of paying our bills, but in this case the collector is at the door, and he says raise revenue.
On this particular case of graft, I wonder if Halliburton is supplying the food? God knows they overcharged the hell out of us for food in Iraq, and when it came time to pay taxes, they moved their operation offshore. We were investigating the fraud they perpetrated on the American people during the Bush administration, but the investigation mysteriously "went away."
If not Halliburton, I'll be you find that someone involved in setting the meeting up is involved with the person catering the event. I think that sort of thing calls for prison time. Let some poor pot smoker out and replace him with a politician. Actually, come to think of it, I think we could solve a lot of our "gridlock" issues that way.
Gaithersburger - Ron is correct. Most of the decreased tax revenue is due to a 9% unemployment rate, not the Bush Tax cuts. The deficits are due to not decreasing spending as revenue fell - not the Bush Tax cuts. I would agree with Jeremy that the government, when revenue falls, should cut back spending, not say "oops we are incapable of exercising self-control so we will take more of your money - pony up".
We cannot resolve the debt crisis without raising taxes, but neither should we accept increasing taxes without significant waste management and cost control by a completely out of control, debt-drunk government.
Ronin
The GAO and Committee On Fiscal Responsibility and Reform are government run. Do you really believe that they conducted true audits?
That's like the farmer asking the fox to count the chickens.
When a government can tell us what a health care bill will cost even before they know what's in it, I am a little skeptical of that government
I also think you are mistaken in saying the President has eliminated "over 160 agencies and departments within the federal government"
He has in fact created 159 NEW boards and commissions within the scope of the health care bill alone:
In a way yes. The GAO and other government audit agencies make themselves look good by making the audited agency look like a jack ass.
Assuming the GAO and the Committee will take a thorough look is like assuming any profession can really police itself. Accountants are supposed to be known for their honesty, but they still helped give us Enron. Attorneys and Doctors are just as bad. Let's face it, they are all government employees, so if they go too far they will also lose.
Yes, they will pick out occasional cases to highlight, but if you're asking if I think in general they are good at policing their profession...my answer is a resounding no.
You make a good point dave, but you fail to address the fact that one of those corporate owners of the Hilton didn't mind one damn bit taking $16 of taxpayers money and giving them one single muffin in return.
You can pardon the criminal if you like, I prefer American justice. Tax that baztard to kingdom come, and give him a free muffin on me!.
Fred Guisse,
of course they don't mind taking tax payer's money. Who in their right mind turns down free money.
On the other hand, raising taxes for all americans is not the answer. What we need is a new tax. A tax that attacks the wealth disparity in this country. It isn't so much income that needs taxing. It's wealth - a tax specifically on the amount of wealth accumulated.
rkb,
I don't really have a problem with wealth disparity. Personally, material wealth doesn't do much for me. I had a quarter million once, gave it away to friends and family in about 2-3 years. I have no regrets and live comfortably on the 20G I earn as a skilled laborer.
But asking for and receiving a tax break with the premise of using that money to create jobs is touchy. Buying more expensive cars, eating better food or adding a third olympic size pool to the summer mansion does create jobs, but not in the way we are told it will.
Basically, I prefer they just be honest and can prove that the money they spend would be spent in America first. Which they have not been asked or promised to do yet. That would make the pill much easier for me to swallow.
sam adams - Not when you spend $10 BILLION/MONTH on 2 pointless wars for 10 years.
Iraq: US Laws with Congressional Appropriations, 1998, H.R. 4655 and Declaration of War with Congressional Appropriations, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution.
Afghanistan: Similar US Laws with Congressional Apprpriations.
Both Iraq and Afghanistan are UN Missions, Nation Building.
Libya has neither a US Law nor US Congressional Appropriations prior to the First US Military Actions.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE:
You want to chop the US Defense Budget, simple, eliminate the almost one hundred million US Civilians of the US Defense Industrial Complex. Replace these expensive US Civilians with cheaper US Military Personnel (US Military Personnel paid less than 50% of what a US Civilian costs). This results in a US Defense Budget Cut of at least 50%. This does not count the US Contractors.
The other example is here (Afghanistan), the Billions spent: First the US Civilians, then the US Department of State Programs/Projects (Billions spent with nothing built nor done), then the US Military gets the crumbs.
theCavalier. AGAIN WITH THE HALLIBURTON CRAPOLA? What about the mostly Demoncraptic 3,000 US Contractors as Demoncraptic Party Campaign Contributors. Just like this article about $4,200 USDs while Ignoring the $1.7 Trillion USDs of President Obama's Health Care Reform. Do you HONESTLY believe that the Health Care Reform Act is worth $1.7 Trillion USDs?
Who the hell does the DOJ think they are anyway...................................Starbucks?
They are not only extravagant, they lack taste. Brownies form the D.C. Hilton for 10 bucks, when for about half the price they could be eating the very best, most decadent brownie from "Dean&Deluca."
Stuff like this is exposed every single time a closer look is given to expenditures. Think now how much in the hundreds of billions are overspent like this with the "defense" budget ripoffs.
Here's another cost over-run.. Congressional salaries, healthcare and retirement benefits. Until every single taxpayer can have affordable healthcare and their own retirement plan (a viable SS), then not one single dollar should be taken from them to hand over to a Congressman.
I agree MoonRiver. They are so quick to take away from the people who are taxed on their taxes, and aren't privy to loopholes like they are. The working class in this country has shouldered the needs and wants of the greedy uber rich and the piss poor multi-generational welfare addicts for far too long.
Come on now...you can't expect somebody to poop while sitting on a $3,000 government toilet seat after eating some cheap $1.59 day-old Entenmann's muffins!
I'm wondering what the conference goers used for TP...a roll of newly minted uncut $100 bills?
agree. when i worked for a small organization and we could see we were going to come in under budget everything was looked at. no spending on supplies unless really a needed item. pens, pencils, paper i know it sounds like small numbers but they all add up to big numbers. things like this should not go on and we should not put any more revenue (taxes) into the system until these stop completely.
I will agree with you on Congressional salaries..
Personally I do not mind them making 100+ K a year, and the health care they get while they are serving.
BUT I also agree in Term Limits, and Service in Congress is not a lifetime job. Once you are termed out, no pension, no more health care ( unless you pay for it out of pocket ) no more S.S. protection. You go back to being a citizen of the US of A.
( that goes for all High ranking Gvmnt officals. Ex PotUS as well.)
This is a bald faced lie by the media. If you take a caterer (that's what it sounds like the government did).... and that caterer charges 300 bucks and gives you 20 cupcakes, that's a 15 dollar cupcake.
The part the lying media leaves out is that hiring a caterer requires 300 or more dollars, they won't serve an event for 20 bucks (would you?)
DOJ ticked off some 'journalist', and ended up in a drummed up cross-hair.
No, actually it is not. The vast majority of the Federal budget is in entitlements and defense spending. If you trimmed every muffin, coffee, and juncket there is, you would not come close to "hundreds of billions". The idea that we can fix the defecit problem by "cutting waste" is a Tea Bagger delusion, and it needs to be quashed so that we can talk about the real issues: entitlement reform, tax reform, and defense reform.
AGAIN WITH THE TOILET SEATS????? Why don't you keep changing the price to like about a Billion USDs just to make your posts seem as ridiculous as they are.
Read post#1.54.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE:
You want to chop the US Defense Budget, simple, eliminate the almost one hundred million US Civilians of the US Defense Industrial Complex. Replace these expensive US Civilians with cheaper US Military Personnel (US Military Personnel paid less than 50% of what a US Civilian costs). This results in a US Defense Budget Cut of at least 50%. This does not count the US Contractors.
The other example is here (Afghanistan), the Billions spent: First the US Civilians, then the US Department of State Programs/Projects (Billions spent with nothing built nor done), then the US Military gets the crumbs.
THINK US CIVLIAN JOBS, example:
Pricey Jet Fighters Add Up To Local Jobs
CBS Evening News: Funding For F-22 Jets Is On The Chopping Block, But Building Them Keeps 95,000 People Employed
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/25/eveningnews/main4893248.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;4
Congress to Military: Take More F-22s. We Insist.
Despite Opposition From Military and President, Congress Pushes $1.75 Billion in Funding For Seven More Raptors
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5161900-503544.html?tag=mncol;lst;1
LOL! In the 80's the AF didn't want to buy more A-10s. The response from Sen D'Amato was ummm, no you will be buying 20 more of them, built in my district of course.
A sausage mcmuffin costs a buck...just saying.
But who would eat that @!$%#e?
Alot of people, but apparently not the DOJ.
You are right I guess that explains all the 300+ lb people in this country, and I'm not talking about those who's frames support that weight.
They are actually quite tasty. Not an everyday mean, but on occasion.
Not like most muffins are any better health-wise than a mcmuffin anyway...
Even if the ordered from Starbucks it would have been cheaper. Almost any coffeshop would have been cheaper-but we are talking about over educated Harvard trained lawyers whodon't know how the commonfolk live to begin with and are probably still used to their corporate perks.
They forgot the ywork fior the goverment not Sullivanand Cromwell.
Sixteen dollar muffins!? Hey fella taxpayers, we in da wrong bid'ness. Think we could all pay our bills and our taxes if we could charge what our "muffins" are worth(?).
Just read another article in this vein...Starbucks has a limited edition tee shirt with 'coffee stains' on it, going for $85.00 each. These party throwing politicos will no doubt be wanting to buy up a bunch of these shirts to hand out with the muffins and coffee already available at their events.
This is a bald faced lie by the media. If you take a caterer (that's what it sounds like the government did).... and that caterer charges 300 bucks and gives you 20 cupcakes, that's a 15 dollar cupcake.
The part the lying media leaves out is that hiring a caterer requires 300 or more dollars, they won't serve an event for 20 bucks (would you?)
DOJ ticked off some 'journalist', and ended up in a drummed up cross-hair.
bruce in dc
The bottom line to this bruce in dc, is that instead of signing a contract and hosting this type of event at a expensive Hotel (in the contract must use specific caterers or in house.). They need to hold these Conferences at some High School Gym/Auditorium (for donations), stay at a Motel 6, and buy muffins at a Warehouse Whole Sale Store (12 each bigger than a clenched fist for 5 to 7 USDs, $146 USDs.) and have their own lackeys (interns) make the coffee.
Like I said before about US Justice, the best that you can buy (bribe aka Legalese "quid pro quo").
So the government gets their coffee and muffins from Starbucks?
Come on, even Starbucks doesn't charge that much for coffee and muffins.
They would be broke in a month if they did that because us stiffs have to pay for those out of our unemployment.
Who knew the government shopped at Starbucks?
Well, that's what you get when you need to pay a living wage for products from dis-advantaged org as lib fought for....
What a stupid comment to put on an international blog. Boy, I'll be your face is red...
theCavalier- you have obviously never worked with GSA. So if you knew that the government offices have to buy from GSA approved org unless its a sole source product that no GSA company can provide despite the price one would think like you.
Red face, no not at all, knowing how thing really work and having to listen to jokers who are arm chair "subject matter experts" only makes me laugh.
Do a little research about GSA and government procurement laws that force agency's to buy over priced goods at inflated prices. Companies also get a boost for the bind workers, def workers, women owned, etc that edge other companies out of GSA contracts despite being insanely pricey.
The Governemnt doesn't "have to buy from GSA apporved organizations". We have a lot of stupid rules that tend to drive up prices, but that's not one of them. Trust me, I do it for a living on a daily basis as a Government Contracting Officer in the United States Air Force.
Tell them the entire truth, about the exceptions. Of course then you will be red faced (embarrassed).
Note: seems that the USAF has lowered their Grade of Officers (Capt Meron) as normally a Contracting Officer is a O-6 (USAF Colonel or equivalent GS Grade) and USAF Captains (O-3s) are Contracting Officer's Representatives. Like when I was at USAFE (US Air Force Europe) Headquarters doing coordinations with the USAF Contracting Officer (O-6) for his portion of a Worldwide Nuclear Security Intitative (near Billion USDs) at RAB (Ramstein Air Force Base).
Snap....
Congress can cut their overbloated salaries as well. Government waste indeed.
You'll get no argument from the left on that score.
I volunteer to do my patriotic duty. Next year, I will bake all the goodies for the DOJ functions for 50% less than they paid this year; a sacrifice, I know, to make a muffin for only $8 and brownies and cookies for only $5 per, but I am a proud American, and I will do what I can...
I'd like to help.
I'll serve 'em...one muffin per face-stuff.
How brave of you hymnist. A true American!
Maybe we could add a healthy dose of ex lax to rid them of their most obvious problem.....
Dibs on the TP contract.
I want to know how I can get a contract to be the designated muffin, coffee, brownie, cookie maker for all DOJ events..... How bright could you be to pay $16 for a MUFFIN!! seriously in my town thats almost 5 gals of gas.
LOL hymnist! You sound like you'll go far in selling crap to the government.
What's even worse is that there will be a bunch of bellowing and fake outrage by congress and it will go right on as before. Those people in Washington live like Feudal Lords and it never stops. Remember the 60.00 toilet seats and hammers? Still there.
I read somewhere about a $1500 toilet seat in the white house. I'll bet a $9 Lowes seat is just as comfortable and even comes with padding and butterfly print.
But it's not made of gold RumbleBee. You can't have the president of Mexico sitting on a Lowe's $9 toilet seat when he comes to berate us...... ;)
Wow the price dropped?
Those $600 USAF Toilet Seats were made to keep all the sh!t in the USAF Aircraft sh!tter, including if the USAF Transport Aircraft had to take evasive actions (including going inverted, upside down) to avoid being shot down. This is just like the ignorance of the US Citizens (sounds good, but is non factual) about the $400 Hammer, non sparking, non magnetic manufactured by US Labor Union, to use with Ammunition like artillery projectiles, 500 pound bombs and High Explosives (think about that).
Yes, it would be way cheaper to to just buy the identical items from the Chinese Military and Russian Federation Military, instead of the US. As US Code (US Law) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services" (rare exemptions granted by US Congress).
And the government is "outraged" when people "cheat" on their taxes, like their ex treasury chief. They're lucky people give them a dime.
You know the Govt hates competetion.
Our previous governor, Strickland, mandated brown paper bag lunches instead of served dinners, and it worked. It really cut back on the spending. I don't know why any business or government thinks it needs to spend beaucoup bucks on brunches.
I kind of with hymnist above, too. Put it up for bids. I know I can serve the same or better for (easily) half the price.
Right on, zaper 45701. I remember conferences where the donuts were from Dunkin' (or a local donut shop), and you 'poured' your own coffee from those big commercial coffee urns...sugar/sweeteners were in little bags...cream was often powdered, or it came in little stainless creamer pots. When or if they offered sweet rolls they were often cut in two.
Guess I went to the wrong conferences, eh???
As I stated in a post above, I'll be glad to help you should you win 'the bid'.
Click on the receipt to the bottom left.
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/mich.jpg
The real question that we should be asking is why have these prices been so grossly inflated and where is the money really going? Do we think anyone would really spend $16.00 for a muffin?
It's probably $2.00 for a muffin and $14.00 for the re-elction campaign.
It could also be $2.00 for the muffin, $8.00 to prove all the ingredients were farmed in the US and $6.00 for the FBI back ground checks on all the muffin people involved to make sure none of them were terrorists. I'm assuming the taste tester was just some cleaning lady already employed at the DOJ.
At the "stimulus rate", $600k is almost 3 jobs.
I was thinking the same exact thing. WHERE is that extra money going? Someone is obviously STEALING it and we need to find out who.
Who is the hotel manager related to???
While $16 per muffin sounds outrageous it probably wasn't billed that way. Someone broke down the total charge for the catering of the event, and calculated the per-muffin charge. Like the $12 aspirin charge in the hospital, where the cost includes other things, like the salary of the nurse who brings it to you, the medical record keeping, etc. I'm not saying that $16 is reasonable for a muffin, but it probably includes various service charges for catering, set-up etc. A muffin delivered fresh to a conference is going to cost a lot more than what you pay at the counter.
Than they should break it down further so the people in the government can understand it. Then again, what do they care? They're not paying for it.
Everybody is generous with other people's money.
Things like this are usually presented in the exact form the government agency wants to see it in. It's very possible they were asked to show only the food and not anything else like catering charges, delivery charges, set up and take down, etc, so the price of the muffin was billed at $16.00. It's also possible and probable that what they were charged was way more expensive than they should have paid. (I'm not saying they were cheated either.)
Government workers need to stop thinking that the money pot is bottomless. They need to remember where the money comes from and that those paying for it are pissed.
I travel a lot for my company. I don't have a set limit on my expenses. I spend the company's money like it was my money. I stay in a decent hotel at a modest price. I eat modest meals. I rent modest cars. I have been with people who rent suites at expensive hotels, and eat in 5 star restaurants and charge it off to the company. I don't think that's right. To me it's just a waste of money. Do they get in trouble for their high spending? Not that I know of. I still won't spend money for that kind of stuff if I don't have to.
robert, you are spot on. for anyone that has had a conference at a high end hotel, you would know the extras are outragious. this was a catered event at a set price in a conference room and someone decided to break it down to the number of heads there (hence the $16 muffins) when actually most attendees probably gorged on about 6 muffins each and left with some. actual cost was probably about the same as Dunkin donut. the actual waste of money, was the fact they were there in the first place, getting nothing done. can you imagine how much was spent at the local topless bars.
Yeah, well, next time skip The Hilton and try a Holiday Inn Express. Breakfast is included in your room costs and they serve muffins, eggs, waffles, etc! Oh, and the coffee is included as well. If they're there to work, then it shouldn't matter if they're in a room with gold and crystal fixtures - how does any of that help them concentrate on the problem at hand?
Marsh, Why does the conference need to be in a high end hotel? Are there not government agencies where they are holding these conferences that have conference rooms, auditoriums or the like?
As for the cost breakdown, if all they served was muffins then yes, the cost per muffin woudl be $16.00. You don't pay an extra charge in a restaurant for the server, the chef, the hostess and the bartender. These costs are figured into the cost of the product.
I didn't see anyone mention the "one escort per room" part of the bill...
Gneisenau, I'm VERY curious to know what company you work for. I know people who have traveled the world over but have always been on a per diem. The company you work for is asking for higher than necessary expenses. As you admit, you're the only one who is reasonable about where you stay and the food you eat.
When put on a per diem, many of the employees THEN become careful about their choices because they get to keep whatever is over and above their bill. Again, I've never heard of a for profit company being run this way for their expenses for up to upper middle management. Now if you are upper management, then it makes sense. The higher ups always get the cream of the crop, with the company paying for it. I applaud you for spending the company's money as though it was your own. The majority of people do not do this, and that "entitlement" mentality didn't just happen yesterday. It's been going on for decades!
I did, see post# 1.54.
This is the problem, not that the government paid $16.00 for a freakin muffin but no one is going after the Capital Hilton for price gouging. ALL companies do this, they hear "government" they jack up the price of everything. How many times have you heard of paying $80. for a toilet seat? The government needs to go after these companies that seem to relish is overcharging the people of the United States because they can.
Or, just maybe, the government could seek a contract that does not cost as much. They could change their rules to not give priority to women and minority owned business but rather let all business compete for the contract.
If governments acted truly in the interest of the taxpayer they would not need to go to conferences in costly locations. They would bid on services provided by vendors. They would implement a system where costs must be approved and if it were determined that the approver of the costs was not acting in the best interest, they would be fired.
So what? I shop at Starbucks sometimes too, not a big deal.
Blah, blah, blah...
And this is news? Personally I don't like it, but I am not surprised.
That's part of the problem. If no one cares or is suprised, how do you stop it or slow it down??
They did spend way to much for muffins and cookies but what hotel doesn't charge that amount for food and beverage? I'm sure the hotel would not allow them to bring in their own food. As for the conference organizing costs, the DOJ is a huge agency with a large number of employees who would have been in attendance. From experience, it costs a significant amount to put on a meaningful and informative conference.
I'll bet it was real meaningful and informative (sarcasm)
They only had 250 muffins according to the article, so it couldn't have been that big a conference. Yes, it costs a lot to put on a conference, but
1. was it needed?
2. did everyone in attendance need to be there?
3. could it have been done via video conferencing?
4. how many had to fly in and what was that cost?
5. who approves the cost?
It's easy to put on an event like this if you have nobody to answer to
I guess this is why the "Justice" Department hasn't gotten around to the whole Wall Street crime and who caused the depression thing. To busy eating $16 muffins.
Actually, Rev, they have been going after illegal aliens and Medicare fraud and waste. In both areas they have produced more prosecutions, deportations, and uncovered more fraud in 3 years than Bush did in 8. That hasn't gotten much press, but it's true. Google will help you find out for yourself.
Not really. Read posts# 1.54, 1.56, 1.58.
As a conference manager this is incredibly frustrating to read. Hey Reuters, have you ever bothered to take a look at catering costs at a hotel or conference center?? It's not cheap, and trust me, it's not because you are getting something fancy or splurging. It's because its just damn expensive to order f&b at these places. The cost of labor at a hotel or conference center drives the prices up. Help yourself out and do a little research next time before posting a story you clearly know nothing about, because if you had this time you'd see that the costs are directly in line with what a typical meeting venue will charge.
They are not helpless. Stop at a grocery store and pack a lunch. That's how you cut costs.
Catering should not be paid for by taxpayers, EVER!
I agree skohl. Who do they think they are just throwing money around like that with $8 dollar coffee. Try a healthy peach or plum for only 59 cents, spoiled brats.
And pay from their own pocket even for that. That is what everyone else does when lunchtime comes around.
Everybody else has to pack a sandwich or leftovers for lunch or PAY for something.
Why do they think they deserve such extravagant treatment? They want turn us upside down and shake our pockets for change when we clearly do not have it, but feel entitled to royal treatment!
Your thinking is flawed Rebekah
Maybe the DOJ needs to look at cheaper alternatives. Just because it costs that much at a hotel or conference center doesn't mean WE (as in WE the taxpayers) have to spend it there.
You're telling me the government doesn't have any place to hold a conference of their own? They don't have food service in any of the governmental offices that could be used to cater an event? Have you ever been to Costco to get muffins? They're damn good, and a lot cheaper
Trust me, I'm not saying I agree with the fact that they spent the money as there are LOTS of other options that would have cost less. It just requires a little effort on someones part to put their thinking cap on. My frustration is with the angle of the story. Non-profits, charities, etc. all spend the same thing if they hold their event in a hotel or convention center. The article is skewed to give the impression that our gov't is taking a page out of AIG's book when really it's just another day of doing business at a hotel. I've done many events in DC, and last time I checked each and everyone of those gov't buildings had an abundance of large meeting spaces what allow you to bring your own food in :)
$16/muffin?!!! You have got to be kidding! If it costs that much to have an event catered, no one would hire caterers! I have attended many events, for which I have paid the full shot myself, with catered food for morning & afternoon breaks and lunch, and the total price per day was about $50.00, and that covered the speakers, event literature, and everything else! This was in Chicago, not Podunkville Arkansas! The whole DC mentality is so warped it is pathetic. With obesity rampant, why not just do away with free food at government sponsored events, anyway? You don't have to eat at every break, and if you are hungry, pay for it yourself!
Rebekah
I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what the actual cost for muffins is, it's the fact that the government feels entitled to spend our money this way. They have a civic duty to spend money wisely. You and I both know that won't happen unless they are held accountable. I think that is the whole point of the article. The government is spending money that is not theirs. It belongs to us. They are not living it up, but they certainly could do a better job of spending wisely.
Supply and demand....c'mon people, is anybody outraged at the facilities that charge these bull@!$%# prices. Is the pricing different than say, for a Kiwanis convention or a corporate meeting held at the same place? If not then class action suits should be levied at them for unjust enrichment.
No matter what we say or comment on ..NOTHING WILL CHANGE .. So WHY SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. The only way things will change is to have a complete overall of our government and to start from scratch to include who represents us and their salary, retirement, benefits, etc and must be passed by the people by popular vote. In fact any and all programs presented must be passed by the people of this country before anything becomes law. The people we have elected to do this has made a shambles of our country and we could do no less.
The raping & pillaging of our country continues with the rich elites at the helm. Not likely to change.