I am so sick of all these wars being waged and instigated by the USA, talk about budget deficits if we would stop bombing Libya,Pakistan,Yemen,Afghanistan and Iraq we could probably afford Obama"s jobs program? I will vote for the candidate that will end all these wars!.......

Ron Paul Most Likely GOP Candidate to Beat Obama
www.ronpaul.com
Two recent Rasmussen polls show that Ron Paul is not only statistically tied with Obama (38% vs. 39%); he does better against the current president than any other current or potential GOP candidate!

Ron Paul: Obama is a War Monger - YouTube

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1sLk5_-lWE......

"Rebels" send in "special forces" to hunt Gadhafi

I'm curious........did they try checking under their al Quaeda training camp tents????

Peace Lover,

"I will vote for the candidate that will end all these wars!"

Sorry, but Jesus Christ will not be running for president in the 2012 election. Maybe next time? :)

Mickey-1983943 I believe that Ron Paul will definitely end these wars and very quickly and would have a policy of defending the Mainland {50 states and territories}

“War is never economically beneficial except for those in position to profit from war expenditures.”

Ron Paul quote

“The obligations of our representatives in Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating no-win wars, while bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people''

Obama has a "jobs plan?" Been waiting 3 years for that.........

All of Libyas assets should immediately be transferred to the contract security companies that the U.S. will install in the near future. That way the big payoffs to the politicians in Washington can be done sooner and they can get the next war started in a timely manner.

Ron Paul lives in a fantasy world if he thinks he can really run the U.S. government that really runs the U.S. government.

Wake up Sheep!

OK, back to the original post. Exactly where are these "special forces" coming from? These rebels have pretty much fought this war from the backs of old pickups and firing randomly down the street.

sleezy, I think you overestimate our involvement in this little tactical exercise. Neither NATO nor the US will land troops in that country, not just because the Libyans won't permit it, but because no Americans or Europeans will support another occupation. At best we'll supply some advisors and perhaps material to help get the infratructure up and running, and maybe help them set up a govt, although I think that's unlikely. There's no way any Libyan is going to accept a Blackwater-like presence.

These "rebels" are executing people. There is a difference between killing someone in action & executing someone. Executing someone because they are against your way of thinking is what radical terrorists do. I would think NATO & Obama would be upset about this.

willow, thank you for acknowledging that you were waiting for a jobs plan since before President Obama was inaugurated in January 2009.

Peace Lover,

"I believe that Ron Paul will definitely end these wars"

I see that you are a man of great faith (in other men)! I personally would not look to any man to end wars. It's a nice dream, but it isn't likely to happen.

Mickey-1983943 you do understand that the President Of the United States is the Commander in Chief of the armed forces and has the power to end these hostilities very quickly? Do you want me to ask god to withdraw Us forces?

Peace Lover,

"you do understand that the President Of the United States is the Commander in Chief of the armed forces and has the power to end these hostilities very quickly?"

After having spent 20 years of my life in the military, I should hope I do understand that the President is the Commander in Chief! But I also understand the nature of politics. Ron Paul may promise wonderful things to get elected, and he may sincerely believe in what he says. But once he finds himself in the White House, he will discover a political reality that he has no clue even exists now. I think there is nothing better than being in the White House to jolt a man awake to reality from his dreams. Right now he can say all sorts of fine things, but once elected President, he is going to have to deal with Congress, the Supreme Court, and all the rest of the American people, many of whom will disagree with his policies.

Actually, I'm not waiting for a jobs plan since the President has no clue as to how to create a job. It just seems so silly to break it down to the exact month, day, just to make folks like you happy. I was being sarcastic.

Bottom line..... Just another empty promise from the empty suit.

I wonder how long it will take for the Obama Administration and a lot of those that support Obama to figure:

A enemy of a enemy, is not necessarily a FRIEND!

(The US and NATO have now armed and supported the same terrorist who we have been fighting in the Middle East (again) in trying to overthrow Ghadaffi)

How dumb are we in the US, to think the Middle East wants to be like the US!

Thanks Mickey-1983943 I see your point, after all many thought Obama would end the wars? It's always good to hope right?

peacelover and mickey, i love it when an argument ends peacefully. congrats to both of you for making your point without killing anyone! if only politicians were so diplomatic.

Peace Lover,

"after all many thought Obama would end the wars? It's always good to hope right?"

Exactly! Many thought Obama would end the wars, and I'm sure he sincerely believed he would, too, until he was elected and came face to face with political reality, which can be an ugly thing. A President also has to face the reality of dealing with foreign governments many of which do not see eye to eye with him. And you're right, it's always good to hope for peace.

madMarinedad,

"peacelover and mickey, i love it when an argument ends peacefully. congrats to both of you for making your point without killing anyone! if only politicians were so diplomatic."

I agree with that! I think "peacelover" lives up to his name.

'MD-1987898', these Libyan "special forces" are highly trained and disciplined. Rather than wasting all of their ammunition firing randomly into the air -- wounding and killing innocent civilians as those rounds fall back to earth -- these highly trained and disciplined "special forces" will waste only about half of their ammunition firing randomly into the air. The remainder of their ammunition will be wasted firing randomly at structures, vehicles and other objects.

grunt-1263073, the Libyan government isn't the terrorist, the Americans (yes our own people), NATO and the traitors of Libya (the rebels) are the REAL terrorists. Wake the f**k up!

Maybe Bush could invite Kadaffi to Texas like he did the Taliban?

Theses "special forces" they are talking about are probably U.S. operatives in Libya assisting the rebels.

My concern is (1) Gadahfi's weapons and (2) post Gadahfi's Libyan government:

1. Gadhafi's weapons: including mustard gas and surface-to-air missles are not accounted for. In particular, the 20,000 or so missiles cannot be found. Amazing, had to find the following information from a Japanese newspaper and will probably never hit MSNBC as a news article:

"We will look to them to ensure that Libya fulfills its treaty responsibilities, that it ensures that its weapons stockpiles do not threaten its neighbors or fall into the wrong hands, and that it takes a firm stand against violent extremism," Clinton said in a statement Thursday night.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/international/news/20110826p2g00m0in096000c.html

2. Post Gadhafi's Libyan government seems to be heading in a direction of further suppressing the Libyan people.

It now appears all but certain that Moammar Gadhafi’s reign as leader of Libya is over, and I am not sorry in the least to see this terrorist removed from power, but the question remains; who will replace him?

If this report is correct, and as of yet we do not know if it is true, the rebels have drafted a constitution in which Sharia law will be the new law of the land.

http://americaswatchtower.com/2011/08/22/libyan-rebels-may-be-drafting-a-constitution-based-on-sharia-law-does-barack-obama-support-this/

Yep, just a couple of "MINOR" things this Administration never thought about since they were mainly concerned about "their" "Humanitarian Effort".

Ok, where does a rebel group get "special forces"?

The word 'special' is a most interesting one, it can mean a great many things.

In the US military establishment, it is usually referring to unconventional warfare and personnel who specialize in it. I won't go into it in detail, but generally what special warfare entails is a very small number of people able to inflict an amount of damage to an adversary completely out of proportion to their numbers. This is usually done through 'surgical' precision strikes at crucial yet sensitive targets and also involves a lot of sabotage, such as demolition of key bridges, rail lines, etc. Special warfare also has a considerable psychological element to it, working in two directions. The kinds of damage successful special operations cause is very demoralizing. On the other hand, special warfare involves building morale of allies and helping them to help themselves in ways only highly proficient, professional warriors could do.

Now, in the federal government, a 'special' employee is generally one who is working either part time, or on temporary appointment. A classic example would be an enumerator working for the US Census Bureau.

'Special' is similar to 'quality'. You can claim to have a 'quality' product, but what does it mean? It could be a high quality product, or a low quality product, but could be described as a 'quality' product either way, no?

With the Libyan rebels, I doubt their 'special forces' are anything too special. They're all irregulars and guerrillas, so one could argue that they're all 'special forces' in one way or another, depending on perspective.

I'm guessing what they're trying to tell us is that some of the men involved have been assigned a special task. They may or may not have any pertinent training, background, experience, or ability in it, however.

The Rebels should be more worried about getting a Solid Government together--they are still looking for Gadhafi?--he's gone--do they know about ways of travel, and protecting a crazy man.

Illiterate rebels; more fierce fighting over this--Gadhafi is laughing himself all the way to the bank (plenty of billions)---he is not in Libya--now that woud call for stupidity.

He is being harbored by another wild country that agrees with his Dictatorship--Perhaps Tunisia, Algeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or maybe in some African Nation. It could be he is in Somalia, helping out the starving children, families with all his money--Did he and his sons become "Pirates" at Sea?

Money talks. Who would not want a couple of million to keep him safe.

It's time for the Rebels to get back to setting up a serious Government, of which they are not capable--so more strife, and guns shooting in the air; killing others. More waste of life on innocent people.

Many deluded people here ... again.

First off: the US (and most countries) operate on short term international goals, and have very always picked the option of assisting the enemies of our enemies. We've done that since the beginning of the country. Picking one tribe of native Americans to fight another, then turning on them with yet another. It is a well-established tradition, certainly not one unique to Obama. Question should be: when will America stop this as a policy. Obama just happens to be the latest one, and personally I don't envy anyone having to make that kind of choice. Its only easy if you don't have to make the decision.

Secondly, we are not arming 'the same terrorists who we have been fighting int he Middle East'. There is no nice clean little organization with a global headquarters and neat organizational chart. These are very loosely affiliated groups, and they have often been fighting each other as much as well as the US.

Lastly, I wish people would make up their mind. You can't be a strong world power by withdrawing into your borders and hiding behind walls. That is how people like Hitler and Stalin get established, and then you have a bigger problem. "Oooo - maybe if we put our heads in the sand they will ignore us and walk away". Bull hockey. Either you are engaged or you withdraw from the world and fade away.

I do agree with Mickey - few of you have any clue to what goes into these decisions, or the intel that is used to make them. Lots of people promise the moon to get elected, then find themselves in the hot seat and make the same friggin decisions they cried foul about earlier.

the TiGor-That was a "specieal post"!

Actually Brisaber your wrong...we are arming the same guys we're fighting in the middle east. The coupe in Libya started in the south eastern part of the country which is made up of radical factions. Our troops have captured or killed jihad in Iraq and Afgahnistan with Libyan passports from this region. But hell if you want to make crap up, pull it outa your a$$ and not get actuall facts go right ahead.

I gotta echo other posters with my astonishment that these rebels actually have a “special forces” unit. Oh wait, their definition of Special Forces is; fighters that have shoes.

As far as comments about Ron Paul go. He has time and again spoken against having all these overseas ADVENTURES. Unlike the men before him, he is not a NEOCON or a lackey of the NEOCONs.

Time will tell, but you can bet your last dollar that both Rick Perry and Mitt Romney will be carrying out the same old agenda of the NEOCONs.

MD-1987898- Ok, where does a rebel group get "special forces"?

You will not like the answer. First, terminology, we were directed to no longer use the term "Special" as to many believed that had something to do with the mentally impaired, so we now must use the term Asymmetric Warfare Forces (sarcasm, isn't Political Correctness just great).

So to answer your question, their Asymmetric Warfare Forces are those that are the Insurgents that started the "Civil War", they were trained to do this at the "Terrorist", "Jihadist", "Worldwide Islamic Military" Training Camps, previously at the Autonomous Kurdistan Region (until they were Raided by US Ally Turkey 2010 to now.) as sponsored and supported by Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, and currently located at Yemen, the Graduates:

Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Pennesula (AQAP), etc. that went to Libya to help the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG*) overthrow Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (he was a US Ally, prior to all of this).

These are very cohesive Groups, that are also trained in Counter Intelligence Operations. Since most were classmates of the Terrorist Training Camps, they know each other visually (prevents penetration into their Organizations), and will rush to assist each other regardless of their strategic asymmetric warfarfe goals at specific Nations.

* The LIFG, are those that were/are fighting the US Military at Iraq.

MD-1987898 - Isn't executing prisoners against the Geneva convention? If so shouldn't NATO intervene?

Since the US actually is NATO, and NATO sided with the "Rebels" (list above), so what about the Geneva Convention or Hague Convention. The winner writes the Rules, and the losers get to go to Trials that the outcome is known before they even go to Trial.

MD-1987898 - Are these really the people Libya's assets should be given to?

(sarcasm) Why not everyone trusted them with AK47s, Anti Aircraft Machineguns, Tanks, Shoulder Fired SA7 Anti Aircraft Missiles, SVDs, Explosives, Rockets, etc..

And only now are all of you concerned that the groups (listed above) got a hold a most of this, well they were way ahead of your thought processes as the Gaddaffi Military Bases were their first Targets even before the "Civil War" started.

So what if they got a hold of a few thousand, SA-7s to shoot down commerical passenger Aircraft, that are not equipped with countermeasures.

Isn't that what all of you that were for this wanted ? That is what you did by your actions (not words).

The Majority of the 92% of US Citizens that have Never served in the US Military NEED to Serve, then maybe you would HATE War (since it will be your arse and not the "someone else").

And those that did Serve, Veterans, need to catch up with everything, this (US Military) is NOT the same as a few years ago.

And the 1% currently Serving, if you are a PX/BX/NEX Soldier/Airman/Sailor rear area mf'er, Fobbite, left behind with the bagage, etc. that has zip zero ziltch training and experience in Asymmetric Warfare you are a bunch of virgins trying to tell everyone how sex feels; I have seen your kind when I go to Kabul, Kandahar, Bagram. I am that "Bast*rd", "Assh*le", "F**ker", that put his hand on your shoulder at the Dining Facility, TGIF, etc., that smells like sweat, with a shemagh around my neck, that invited you to visit us for a week so you could get your stories straight, and most of you chickened out. And those of you that did take me up on my invitation, wanted to leave after the second day, including you threatening to call your Congressmen, Family, etc..

Well david-475776, I don't know about the others posting here, but I have been screaming to anyone who would listen about the folks we have been arming over there. Same folks we armed in Afganistan to run the Russians off. Now, not only do they have all of the nice shiney new guns, tanks, rocket launchers, etc. that we have given them, they also have Gadahfi's (sp?) pile of WMDs. I wish our government good luck with that.

As for the "special forces"; where the hell do y'all think they came from?

sleezy, I think you overestimate our involvement in this little tactical exercise. Neither NATO nor the US will land troops in that country, not just because the Libyans won't permit it, but because no Americans or Europeans will support another occupation. At best we'll supply some advisors and perhaps material to help get the infratructure up and running, and maybe help them set up a govt, although I think that's unlikely. There's no way any Libyan is going to accept a Blackwater-like presence.

Someone neglected to read the article, it says that NATO spec ops are on the ground.. Also they will have foreign security companies there in no time, if they value their lives and then it will only expand..

For months they were killing each other and running from the fights, never making any headway and then they take over the entire country in one swoop.. Of course they had help, its getting to close to election and the US doesnt want to admit, we are in another war.. So we send in troops or pay another country to send them in and finish it..

NATO forces, notably from France and Britain, are helping the rebels. Many analysts assume they are giving intelligence and may have their own special forces troops on the ground.

Jo Ann-666954

These "rebels" are executing people. There is a difference between killing someone in action & executing someone. Executing someone because they are against your way of thinking is what radical terrorists do. I would think NATO & Obama would be upset about this.

Have you ever studied history? At all? Name one revolution where opposition fighters and in many cases supporters weren't executed. Are you really that naive? Also I'm curious; I read the article three times looking for the reference to your statement about rebels executing people...can you kinda help me out there?

Anyone who would blindly accept that these rebels are pure as the driven snow is indeed naive. I'm just a little surprised to see so many "conservatives" expressing sympathy for Gaddafi considering how many Americans he splattered all over Scotland.

Jo Ann: Are you serious with that comment? Are you simply looking for something to argue about? Do you ever venture outside your air conditioned room or off your sofa?

There is a price for everything in any decision we make. The current rebels have not established any sort of government as of yet. Hence Man, drives me nuts with these backseat drivers....

Kathy Stuart - Well david-475776, I don't know about the others posting here, but I have been screaming to anyone who would listen about the folks we have been arming over there.

That I have to agree with, to some extent however most of the weapons came from Gaddaffi's Military Bases (before the Civil War started) and Military Depots (after the Civil War started), like the 60 bunker Hight Razma facility on the eastern outskirts of Benghazi and a 35 bunker facility on the eastern outskirts of Ajdabiyah.

The problem with these locations was that at the very beginning till now after the Gaddaffi Military Guards were eliminated, they were left unguarded for anyone to take anything. Some of these "bunkers" are actually the size of a warehouse.

Kathy Stuart - Same folks we armed in Afganistan to run the Russians off.

That is not what happened. We, US Military Training Teams from Germany, were sent to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars. Then we were rotated with the US Military Training Teams at Pakistan/Afghanistan.

During the USSR 40th Army Occupation of Afghanistan. The USSR did not care which Afghans were what (Pro USSR, Pro US, etc.), so they massacred any Afghans in their USSR Total Conventional War (including Carpet Bombing, Chemical Warfare (Agent Purple, Mustard Gas, poisoning water wells, millions of area denial weapons (Landmines), foil wrapped explosives "candies", tank formations to level villages, etc..

This caused millions of Pro USSR Afghans to flee Afghanistan into Fundamentalist Islamic Iran (a USSR ally during the Iran Iraq Wars). When we were at Iraq, we captured some. As the US Military Training Teams accompany those we train into combat, to make corrections to future training, and to make on the spot corrections, so we become combatants in most cases. You will get killed if you did not train them properly, as FID.

The Pro US Afghans flee to Pakistan. As demanded by Senator Charles Wilson Democrat Texas, we (US Military) get involved with the 1950s to 1970s Little America Afghanistan (built up by the US from 1950s to 1970s).

After we Organized, Trained, Armed, the Pro US Afghans they became the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, then we took pictures (mug shots), finger printed, written descriptions (name, scars, etc.), etc. as possible future Intelligence assets, friends and US Allies. This is how we knew that we did not associate with Osama Bin Laden, who was still at Saudi Arabia with his rich parents, planning how to gain International Recognition for Al Quada, the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombing.

Then the Asymmetric Warfare conducted by the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen started. They/we are having significant losses to the USSR Aircraft designed specifically for Afghanistan, the modified Hind Attack Helicopters (aka Flying Tanks), the SU-25s and the armed troop helicopters Mi-17s. We are sent Stinger Missiles, that do not work since the USSR already equiped their aircraft with ECM Pods that broadcast the Friendly Signal so that the IFF of the Stingers would not allow us to engage them (shoot them down). These were "Return to Sender" (this was fixed later after the US left Afghanistan, with a all weather automotive toggle switch from Radio Shack to bypass the IFF). So to shoot down the USSR Aircraft we had to train, organize the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to raid the USSR Munitions Depots, to get the USSR SA-7s (no IFF) to shoot down the USSR aircraft.

The 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen defeat the USSR 40th Army. Asymmetric Warfare versus USSR Conventional Warfare.

The US Orders us out, as abandoning our US Allies, and friends made in Combat. As the US Cut and Run Policy. We already knew what would happen next, since we saw some of it happening along the border with Fundamentalist Islamic Iran.

The millions of Pro USSR Afghans return to Afghanistan and become the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, supported by Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. Many are Combat veterans from the Iran Iraq Wars.

Because of the attritions during the USSR 40th Army Occupation, and the lack of weapons (used up during the USSR 40th Army Occupation), and no money for replacements since the US Cut and Run. It was very easy for the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban to massacre the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (including the families, relatives, in laws, friends, etc. of the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen to prevent future "revenge killings").

The 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban become the Government of Afghanistan, then destroy everything "Non Islamic", "Western", "Modern" of Little America Afghanistan and later offer Islamic Sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden and Al Quada, to plan the 9/11 2001 Attacks.

After the 9/11 2001 Attacks we are sent in to Afghanistan to disrupt the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government. Seize and Secure (Pathfinder Operations) Locations for the follow on US Military Forces.

Is that enough of an explanation, Kathy Stuart, my motive for writting the details is for Historical Record from a particpant, just in case, we do not make it back from our current mission, US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare and years of consecutive tours here (Afghanistan). And as a lesson learned you can see how small teams can even cause the defeat of large Armies by getting thousands to fight. This what happened at Libya, as what we did at Afghanistan to the USSR.

Funny how MSNBC leaves out the pro-Al-Queda activities of the "rebels":

Islamic militants among prisoners freed from Libyan jail

"Gadhafi's regime imprisoned thousands of suspected pro-al Qaeda militants after the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq stoked radicalization in Libya,...

Internal al Qaeda in Iraq records seized by the U.S. military in 2007 indicated that proportionately more Libyans traveled to fight with al Qaeda in Iraq than from any other Arab country. Some saw fighting in Iraq as a "a last act of defiance against the Gadhafi regime,"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/26/libya.militants.analysis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Militants are being freed because the "rebels" ARE militants themselves.

Seems like Ghadafi was doing a good job of keeping Al Queda under control... and Obama wanted him gone why?

Here's an article with a different perspective than you will get in the corporate media:

The rape of Libya

By Bill Van Auken
26 August 2011

Five days after “rebels” entered Tripoli, under the cover of NATO bombing and led by foreign special forces, the abject criminality of imperialism’s takeover of Libya is becoming increasingly evident.

Fighting continues to rage throughout the Libyan capital, whose two million residents have been made hostages of the armed gangs and Western special forces troops that have seized control of the city’s streets.

The focus of NATO operations has become a frantic effort to hunt down and murder Muammar Gaddafi, who has ruled the country for 42 years. A $2 million bounty has been placed on his head, and the British media now openly boast that SAS special forces troops are leading the search for him and his family. A vast array of US armed Predator drones, AWACS spy planes and other surveillance equipment has been concentrated on the North African country to facilitate the manhunt.

The pretense that the US and its European NATO allies were intervening in Libya to “protect civilians and civilian populated areas from threat of attack,” as stated in the United Nations Security Council resolution, has effectively been abandoned. Behind the fig leaf of this resolution the naked imperialist and colonial character of the war has emerged.

The Security Council’s stipulations that ground troops not be introduced into the country, that an arms embargo be kept in place and that mercenaries be prevented from entering Libya have all been flouted in this criminal operation to seize control of an oil-rich former colony and loot its resources. There is barely any attempt to hide the fact that special forces, intelligence agents and mercenary military contractors have organized, armed and led the “rebels”, who have not made a single advance without the prior annihilation of government security forces by NATO warplanes...

...“‘The rebels are saying they are fighting government troops here, but all those getting hurt are ordinary people, the only buildings being damaged are those of local people. There has also been looting by the rebels, they have gone into houses to search for people and taken away things. Why are they doing this?’”

Asked why local residents were resisting the NATO-led force’s takeover of the city, Mohammed Selim Mohammed, a 38-year-old engineer, told the Independent, “Maybe they just do not like the rebels. Why are people from outside Tripoli coming and arresting our men?”

Meanwhile, other reports laid bare war crimes carried out by NATO and its local agents on the ground in Tripoli. Both the Associated Press and Reuters news agencies documented a massacre perpetrated against Gaddafi supporters in a square adjacent to the presidential compound that was stormed and looted on Tuesday.

“The bodies are scattered around a grassy square next to Moammar Gadhafi’s compound of Bab al-Aziziya. Prone on grassy lots as if napping, sprawled in tents. Some have had their wrists bound by plastic ties,” AP reported.

“The identities of the dead are unclear but they are in all likelihood activists that set up an impromptu tent city in solidarity with Gadhafi outside his compound in defiance of the NATO bombings.”

AP said that the grisly discovery raised “the disturbing specter of mass killings of noncombatants, detainees and the wounded.”....

....The universal euphoria of the US and much of the European media, which is “embedded” with NATO and its “rebels,” cannot conceal the brutal reality that a war waged under the pretense of human rights and protecting civilians has unleashed immense death, human suffering and destruction.

Far from a “revolution” or struggle for “liberation,” what the world is witnessing is the rape of Libya by a syndicate of imperialist powers determined to lay hold of its oil wealth and turn its territory into a neo-colonial base of operations for further interventions throughout the Middle East and North Africa.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/liby-a26.shtml

Oh for Pete's sake, you know we were just like them when we rebelled against England. And some of these Libyans are secular minded people who just want freedom and liberty; hopefully the US will forget its terrible foreign policy and ensure that transaction. When we fought in the American Revolution, people thought we were mad savages, and that's what WE are doing to THEM. Calling them a bunch of savages. Sure, some of them may have killed prisoners, and yes, they can be at times too eccentric and no able to trust, but so were we, and so we are. And not all of them (if you are correct) are savages. But we proved to the world that we could lead a true democracy, and we did. Why don't we do what France and Spain did to us in the Revolution and help the Libyans in their hour of need. And cut the crap with Obama, McCain would have done the same thing, he said it himself. Its this US foreign policy that is out of wack. We prop up dictators, act on our own AGAINST the UN, which we helped found, and deny freedom to other nations, like the Mid East, because then we won't get cheap oil. Blame the precedent and our nation's military-industrial complex for that. And NO, the Libyan are not all terrorists.

Look Mankind nature is just evil; So stop thinking so highly of American troops!! They are only men in uniform with guns too!! They want to live like everybody else...............however in war anything goes until they get caught!! We must live with the fact that mankind is and always be terrorist when necessary!!

Are the people that keep cheering on Obama about these wars really liberals or {phony war liberals} I think Dennis Kucinich is a REAL LIBERAL and should run for president! ''

This man is not a PHONY WAR LIBERAL but a true liberal ''

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said the five-month-old intervention — now being led by NATO — sets a dangerous precedent for unilateral attacks on sovereign nations. He said Western forces "illegally" picked favorites in Libya's civil war, and he called on the International Criminal Court to investigate potential war crimes by military leaders on all sides of the conflict.

"NATO's top commanders may have acted under color of international law, but they are not exempt from international law," Kucinich said in a news release. "If members of the Gadhafi Regime are to be held accountable, NATO's top commanders must also be held accountable through the International Criminal Court for all civilian deaths resulting from bombing.

"Otherwise, we will have witnessed the triumph of a new international gangsterism."august 23 2011 The Hill.....I believe Dennis Kucinich will stop all these wars and not look to start new ones!

We don't need another Liberal in the White House come 2012. Especially someone like Kucinich - who voted contrary to the wishes of his constituents concerning Obamacare. If he didn't represent his district, how in the world do you think he will represent his country?!?!?! (chirping crickets.......thought so)

willowbrook I just want the wars to end, I prefer Ron Paul but would like Kucinich to launch a primary challenge against Obama.

dear PeAcE LoVeR-2838047; How can the people who direct, support, and instigate all the death and carnage be held responsible when puppet Bush signed the U.S. out of the I.C.C.?

Get out of your dream world!

sleezyweezel from D.C. '' Bush signed the U.S. out of the I.C.C.?''......Oh Ok lets not vote for him?

They are no terrorists - they are a popular uprising against a insane and ruthless dictator. Libya does not have WMD - they gave them up because they got scared that the US might decide to engage them

Peace, I don't think the British and French people are too interested in what Mr. Kucinic says...

NATO is led by the USA always has been,witness the opening days of this conflict and you will understand that the USA must do the heavy lifting period, without US forces NATO could in no way deal with a mission such as this.

Peacelover - while it is a fine thought to want to end all wars, the reality is until there is no longer aggression, or oppression from those we oppose, the wars will not end. Are you an isolationist, who believes the United States can get along well with out the rest of the world. And that the rest of the world won't commence aggression against us? (For what ever reason.) Take into consideration the diversity of philosophy in the world. You are asking for a lot.

I believe that based on our overall military superiority we should withdraw to our borders and defend them, any attack of course would be met with massive retaliation.willowbrook I believe if we would have stayed out of Iraq and eliminated al Qaeda bases in Afghanistan which we did in 3 weeks our country would be much much stronger at this time. What have we gained with ten years and counting in Afghanistan and more than 8 years in Iraq?

Liberal_Libertarian....."Libya does not have WMD - they gave them up because they got scared that the US might decide to engage them."

It's a polite faceoff of spies vs. diplomats, as the Obama administration debates how aggressively to pursue Libya's vast weapons stores, including tons of caustic mustard agent and thousands of anti-aircraft rockets that experts fear could fall into the hands of terrorists or Libyan loyalists.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/international/news/20110826p2g00m0in096000c.html

I suppose you think caustic mustard agent is just your normal run of the mill weapon.

John, one of the European news agencies reported that there seems to be several hundred surface to air missiles currently unaccounted for. This could simply mean that they haven’t yet been located, but as the rebel faction acknowledges, when you count Al Qaeda among your ranks, well, you get the picture.

As far as comments about Ron Paul go. He has time and again spoken against having all these overseas ADVENTURES. Unlike the men before him, he is not a NEOCON or a lackey of the NEOCONs.

Time will tell, but you can bet your last dollar that both Rick Perry and Mitt Romney will be carrying out the same old agenda of the NEOCONs.

A true uprising does not take the massive support of outside influences. Because these rebels aren't well defined, now that thier common goal is over, chaos will rule supreme. Sounds like they are organizing death squads and killing whomever they please. I hope Americans are not part of the peacekeepers. France can own this one. The real danger has only just begun, unlike Egypt where the military backed the revolution in a popular uprising, Libya is completely divided and has no long term strategy except for what France wants.

willowbrook

We don't need another Liberal in the White House come 2012. Especially someone like Kucinich - who voted contrary to the wishes of his constituents concerning Obamacare. If he didn't represent his district, how in the world do you think he will represent his country?!?!?! (chirping crickets.......thought so)

You're absolutely right! If we're bound and determined to go to hell in a hand-basket we should do it quickly...vote Perry 2012.

A true uprising does not take the massive support of outside influences. Because these rebels aren't well defined, now that thier common goal is over, chaos will rule supreme. Sounds like they are organizing death squads and killing whomever they please. I hope Americans are not part of the peacekeepers. France can own this one. The real danger has only just begun, unlike Egypt where the military backed the revolution in a popular uprising, Libya is completely divided and has no long term strategy except for what France wants.

Yep, those damn French they did it again. You know, they did it once before:

"France's Admiral de Grasse arrived in time to block a British fleet that was coming to rescue Lord Cornwallis from French and American land forces. On September 5, 1781, de Grasses's fleet moved out of Chesapeake Bay to face the attacking British ships. Realizing that the French blockade could not be broken, the British fleet sailed back to New York leaving Cornwallis' army with no choice but to surrender."
So I guess the American Revolution wasn't a true uprising?

Funny how MSNBC leaves out the pro-Al-Queda activities of the "rebels":

Islamic militants among prisoners freed from Libyan jail

"Gadhafi's regime imprisoned thousands of suspected pro-al Qaeda militants after the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq stoked radicalization in Libya,...

Internal al Qaeda in Iraq records seized by the U.S. military in 2007 indicated that proportionately more Libyans traveled to fight with al Qaeda in Iraq than from any other Arab country. Some saw fighting in Iraq as a "a last act of defiance against the Gadhafi regime,"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/26/libya.militants.analysis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Militants are being freed because the "rebels" ARE militants themselves.

Seems like Ghadafi was doing a good job of keeping Al Queda under control... and Obama wanted him gone why?

OL why would you say the American Revolution wasn't a true uprising. There were 50,000 American casualties out of a population of 2.5 million. Not sure what the French involvement in the American Revolution has to do with Libya. France, however has colonial history in Libya and was beating the drum the loudest for action. In fact their jets fired the first shots to start the allied actions. The allied action completely debilitated the Libyan government.

Ol_Doc - we are already on the the fast track to hell in a handbasket. It is time to put the brakes on before it is too late. NObama 2012

willowbrook, perry, palin and bachmann all are part of a radical religious movement that intends to eliminate all non-evangelist, christians and all non-christians from America.

look up the goals of the New Apostolic Reformation Movement , total control of culture, business, law, military, education, etc.

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/newapostolic.html

and this is a christian site, not a so-called "liberal msm" source, for a more mainstream media site

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-warfare

these people are absolute nuts, read more about what they are really trying to do, castingof demons, and all kinds of nuttery. if you disagree with them then you are "ridden by a demon" so your opinion doesn't even mean anything.

danwill - here's your problem....you are giving a website with a bunch of people no one has ever heard of and acting like the vast majority of Christianity follows these folks. No. (I have only heard of Ted Haggard out of the list and he is not an important Christian leader either.) Step up to mainstream Christianity and get a clue. "Spiritual warfare" is a buzzword used by a small portion of the population. It actually means the warfare against evil, on a personal level. A means to resist temptation. And how do you know Perry, Bachmann and Palin are part of the extreme right? Bachmann, maybe, be she has little chance of winning due to her lack of experience. Palin isn't running, and Perry, I've not dug into yet, as the pool is too large, and needs to be reduced before serious consideration.

If you've based your opinion on sites like the first link in your post, you don't have a clue what the majority of Christianity is about.

....you are giving a website with a bunch of people no one has ever heard of and acting like the vast majority of Christianity follows these folks.

no, the problem is that two of the leading republican canditates,(perry, bachmann) and one former VP candidate(palin) are all part of this movement that few seem to realize even exists or just how crazy and power hungry it really is.

If you've based your opinion on sites like the first link in your post, you don't have a clue what the majority of Christianity is about.

the real Christians would be the ones that comprise the majority of my friends and neighbors. the ones that DON"T feel a need to insinuate a religious doctrine into the schools, laws of my government. they don't feel the need to take control of business, entertainment , media, family and religion "in the name of christ".

"Spiritual warfare" is a buzzword used by a small portion of the population. It actually means the warfare against evil, on a personal level

ahh, so it means exactly the same thing that "jihad" does in arabic and the muslim world. (try looking it up, and think about the other implications)

And how do you know Perry, Bachmann and Palin are part of the extreme right?

let's see...words and deeds? the country keeps swinging further and further to the right, Nixon would be called a communist in todays ridiculously polarized political environment, and Reagan would be cursed as a socialist for bowing to reality and raising taxes.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/24/139781021/the-evangelicals-engaged-in-spiritual-warfare

Oh, please. It's obvious you hate the man with a passion, but a few facts to back up your agenda would be more convincing. Quoting Nader only indicates he feels the same way, not that there's any legal basis for your views.

AG999 ''It's obvious you hate the man with a passion'' You do not know me and I definetly do not hate president Obama,I oppose him politically because I do not think he is a good president. That is how our system worksAG999 do you understand that? Most of the hateful rhetoric coming from both sides of the aisle is ridiculous, presenting an opposing view is not hate it is called debateAG999. You want to see hate go to any story about Palin or Bachmann then you will see real ugly deepseated hate! what say youAG999?

Your rhetoric sounds pretty inflammatory to me (and I fail to see the signficance of repeatedly inserting my callsign into your response). I agree there's more than enough hatred to go around, but your language in most of the posts I read from you over the weeks I've been coming here indicates a clear agenda. A reasoned look at both sides doesn't seem to be part of it.

PeAcE LoVeR

Just because you pull troops out of all these countries doesn't mean we will not have wars, or heavy costs. I agree that we should stop trying to nation build over there and bring troops home, but if the wrong people are left in charge after we leave we will just have another crazy dictator threatening us daily like we have in Iran. Do you really think there will be no cost if Iran gets a nuclear weapon? How much money will the USA have to spend in a nuclear bomb goes off near Israel? How many lives will be lost by letting them get a bomb compared with not letting them get a bomb?

YesAG999 I have a clear agenda, a new president nothing else I admire Obama and his lovely family I would just like to see him return to teaching and his lovely wife return to Univ. of Chicago Med center.

LogicReguired '' if Iran gets a nuclear weapon?'' Sorry but I agree with Ron Paul...“The obligations of our representatives in Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating no-win wars, while bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people''......Defend the homeland.

AG999

PeAcE LoVeR feels very strongly about the issue of war, which a lot of Americans do, this is not hateful, or inflammatory, he or she just wants a candidate who will not continue to wage wars around the world. His feelings are such that he would support Kucinich who is father to the left then even Obama. A lot of people thought they knew what they were going to get with Obama when it came to these wars and have been very disappointed with his action or lack there of, he is not out of line with his post, although you and I may disagree.

PeAcE LoVeR

Letting Iran get a nuclear weapon is like letting Hitler and Nazi Germany get one. To say it is none of our business is a short sited view. We have tried staying out of wars and being isolationist, that strategy help lead to world wars 1 and 2. Iran has said they want to wipe Israel off the map, what do you think they will do with a nuclear weapon? You think America should just sit back and wait to see if he nucks Israel? What if he tries to nuck us, then would we want to attack?

I am not happy about Iran but they have no capability to strike the USA and I believe Israel is fully capable of dealing with Iran as it has been reported they have over 100 nuclear weapons that may be delivered by missile,aircraft and submarine launched. LogicReguired what would you like to see US armed forces do in regards to Iran? All military analysts agree the IDF is vastly superior to Iranian armed forces.

what would you like to see US armed forces do in regards to Iran?

Great question. I would like to see real sanctions that actually made things tough on Iran, but with Russia and China never going to agree to that I would first try to use CIA operatives to help arm train and organize the resistance over there. Iran had similar problems as Egypt and Libya but were able to survive by using violent force, it would of been helpful if we were maybe behind the scenes helping the resistance and trying to turn some of the current regime. If that doesn't work and they get close to getting a nuck, bombing them would have to happen. There nuclear plants are spread out, hidden, and underground so we wouldn't eliminate it, but we could set it back for a few more years. No troops on the ground, just bombings of targets, that crazy leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be a part of the things I would target. Not a lot of perfect options but I think most are better then letting them get a nuclear weapon. As for Israel, yes they are superior, but if they bomb Iran and go to war with them many of the other Arab states will jump into the fight and Israel will look to us to jump in as well, - another large conflict.

LogicReguired I agree with sanctions, but we should let Israel deal with them as they are very capable. I am a big fan and admirer of the state of Israel just saying.

Good lord, I go to walk the dog and look what happens!

The problem with being against all wars categorically is that only works if every country adopts the same stance. It only takes one warmonger to fuel the necessity for everyone to have to defend themselves or intervene in their national interests (a more debatable endeavor, granted).

Wanting to impeach Obama is pretty inflammatory at this stage. The call for impeaching presidents whenever you disagree with their actions is getting tiresome, like labeling anyone who disagrees with a black man a racist. (To be clear, I didn't vote for Obama; I thought he was too inexperienced and still do.)

I'm sure Obama is a lovely man, and I sympathize with the plate he was handed. It's hard to imagine anyone doing better given the economy, the opposition, and 2-3 wars, but we'll never know. McCain turned out to be more of a hawk than I realized during his campaign and Palin is just scary.

I wonder if I'll be able to vote for anyone next year?

AG999 I am not calling for Obama's impeachment Ralph Nader and others are,I posted his statement because I believe his opinion has some value to this unending war scenario the USA is in.

Cause you people afraid we'll play da race card :-)

The race card has been over used and no one cares anymore.

I love all the military experts here.

You all sounds like Obama before he became President!

As far as comments about Ron Paul go. He has time and again spoken against having all these overseas ADVENTURES. Unlike the men before him, he is not a NEOCON or a lackey of the NEOCONs.

Time will tell, but you can bet your last dollar that both Rick Perry and Mitt Romney will be carrying out the same old agenda of the NEOCONs.

AG999,

President Obama violated US Law, that is an Impeachable Offense.

If you do not know why or what US Law, I already discussed this on other Newsvine Topics (Articles). When all of this started.

President Clinton had 1998, H.R.4655 (and Appropriations) and President Bush (43) had US Law and Declaration of War, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution (and Appropriations) to cover his arse. Both Writen and Approved before hand by US Congress.

What US Law does President Obama have? And Do NOT reference anything written after the First Use of the US Military. And Show Me the Money (Congressional Appropriations), as to use "Discretionary Funds" is exactly what he promised during his Presidential Campaign that he Promised (documented verbal contract) he would NEVER use.

PeAcE LoVeR-2838047, LogicReguired, SSGDave-556,

I already discussed Fundamentalist Islamic Iran in detail on other Newsvine Topics.

George Washington Says,

Instead of comments like that, like a one liner tweet, how about contributing something useful to the conversation, debate, discussion, etc..

I already explained what you ask at other Newsvine Forums (Articles) from day one, as well as prior (mentioned in conjuction with other things the were going on).

It is about the Oil and why the Europeans are demanding Gaddaffi's Overthrow to stop him from Libyan Oil Nationalization.

Gaddaffi's Oil Nationalization would effectively take away control of the Libyan Oil from BP (Britain), Total, Elf (France), Eni (Italy), OMV (Austria), Statoil (Norway), etc.. So instead of these European Oil Corporations hiring cheap Libyan Labor then keeping all the Profits, with Gaddaffi's Resource Nationalization, they would get almost nothing and the majority of the profits would remain in Libya. These Rich European Oil Corporations persuded their European Politicians that Gaddaffi must be Overthrown. So in anticipation of their Governments Military Actions to Overthrow Gaddaffi to stop his Resource Nationalization, "Non essential" personnel were evacuated February 21, 2011.

The things that got the Islamic World Involved Gaddaffi is a Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, to get the Bush Sanctions and Embargoes lifted so that he could sell Libyan Oil to the Europeans, Gaddaffi did: a. Turned over all WMDs to the US (until we backstabbed him)., b. Cooperated with the CIA against the Al Quada., c. Denounced Terrorism., d. Instituted Human Rights and Women's Rights (Women's Rights Inflamed the Islamic World, as Fighting Words), as praised by the UN and African Union., e. Modernization "Westernization" (Westernization is a Derogatory word for Fundamentalist Islam) of Libya., f. Rights for Libyan Citizens, not Illegal Aliens or Migrants., g. etc..

And the aw dumb sh!t was that you would think that Gaddaffi would have learned from what happened to Former US Ally, President Hussein, after he declared "Modernization of the Arab World" (including Women's Rights, Iraqis Oil Nationalization, Civil Rights for Iraqis (Arabs, Arabic, Sunnis) and not the Illegal Alien Shiites from Iran (Persians, Farsi) thru Basra escaping the massive unemployment of Iran after the Fall of the Shah, nor the loyal allies of Iran, the Kurdistanis (Indo Europeans, Shiites, Kurdish a form of Farsi (Iranian)); all of this caused everyone worldwide to automatically hate him and demand Overthrow, including sending Oil Rich Lobbyists to US Congress, US President, etc. and the issuance of a Death Penalty Fatawa against President Hussein.

Make up you f**king minds. You send us (US Military) to help train them, then a few years later you tell us to kill them, then you tell us to build their nation, then you tell us to abandon them (US Ally), then you tell us to kill them again, on and on and on repeating the above. And you wonder why they distrust the US or even hate us. And do NOT give me the excuse that they are different people, they are the SAME people, even after a "Regime Change".

Say whut?

InsertEyeRollHere - Say whut?

During the 1980s we, US Military Training Teams from Germany sent to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars. Then rotated to Pakistan/Afghanistan, see post # 1.38.

Prior to that, we became Middle East Qualified by learning Islam, and Languages (College/University level Islam and languages at US, then Colleges at Islamic Nations with Immersion). In my case I was previously with the INF (Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces), as previously trained in Nuclear Weapons, Biological Weapons (Epidemiology, USAMRIID), Chemical Weapons (with live agent and storage site experience*).

*My post#6.1 above: "a. Turned over all WMDs to the US (until we backstabbed him)"., that is how I know about what I posted at #6.1., as well as being involved with Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia, Egypt, Islamic Asia, etc. since the 1980s, usually living with the locals and not living isolated on a secure FOB, COB, AFB, Green Zone, etc..

TOR-744926 Thanks for this info excellent.

Thanks for your fresh perspective. America and the world need more reporting like this!

That is interesting, but I I guess I'm not surprised nor do I think it is that big of deal. Gadhafi shot innocent people daily for decades and these people were not over there reporting on it. The people rise up against Gadhafi and these foreign journalist come over and start acting like propaganda machines for the regime and expect free press rights as if they were at home? I understand not everyone wants their country to go to war for someone elses cause and these reporters were just trying to show both sides, but they have to remember where they are and that the rules of war are usaully there are no rules.

The establishment media’s portrayal of the Libyan rebels as freedom-loving liberators fighting to overthrow a dictatorial regime doesn’t quite live up to the hype.

I hear variations of the word "liberation" being used quite a bit. How exactly do you "liberate" Libyans from other Libyans? This is a civil war pure and simple. What happens now when the people we support start doing the same things that we used as an excuse to go after their enemies?

Logic you dope. (#7.3) How did you determine that Gadhafi "shot innocent people daily for decades" if there was no one reporting it?? You may have possibly the stupidest post on this entire thread. (Toss-up right now between you & L L, the Liberal Librarian). Use what passes for your brain before babbling.

Who says the Libyan insurgency is Al Quaida led? And whoever claims it...how do you know? My thought is that you are just guessing and don't really know, so why do you state it as a fact!

I have never seen such crazy and/or stupid post in one place before. Most of you dissemble (to state a misleading or false statement.) Please think before you post or don't post at all if you are going to be dissembling. Most of you don't remember or weren't alive when Joseph Gobbles was doing the same thing. His motto was if you tell a lie often enough it will become the truth. Gobbles was Hitlers Propaganda minister. I remember because I fought against the Nazis In WW !!.

No, ssgDave, I'm not afraid of a farcical threat of radical fundamentalist Islamists imposing Sharia Law in the U.S. I'm far more afraid of the very real threat posed by the Michelle Bachmanns of the world; imposing radical, fundamentalist "Christianity" on the U.S. Freedom of Religion be damned!

blitzen-3108008 - Who says the Libyan insurgency is Al Quaida led? And whoever claims it...how do you know? My thought is that you are just guessing and don't really know, so why do you state it as a fact!

Simple, the same reason that I had to remove the percentage of the below that are the "Rebels":

Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Pennesula (AQAP), etc. that went to Libya to help the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG*) overthrow Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (he was a US Ally, prior to all of this).

The unclassified source for the above is Arabic Al Jazeera (NOT the English Al Jazeera) praising the list above for coming to the assistance "Aid" of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. Routinely, after seeing the other information, I must search for the unclassified sources that reflect most of the other information.

example:

The top NATO commander has said he's seen "flickers" of al-Qaida and Hezbollah among the rebels

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42358291/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa

(from training and experience) In Asymmetric Warfare it does not take very many "Insurgents" to start a Civil War. So a hundred insurgents persuade hundreds of thousand to fight for them, is much better that the hundreds of insurgents attempting to do it by themselves.

add to post#7.10.

example:

Unclassified. Just after the ink dried on the Declaration of War with Iraq, US Law, 2002 Iraqis War Resolution. We (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces) were sent to live with the Kurdistanis to gain their Trust. Then we trained them, organized them, armed them to fight the Iraqis Military, seize and secure the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields (the Promised wealth by the US Politicians). The Strategic purpose of this was to make the Iraqis Military Command believe that the Main US Military Forces would come thru US Ally Turkey. They did believe this so the Iraqis Military Command deployed their Main Forces North of Baghdad. The USAF then used non nuclear E-Bombs to destroy all Iraqis Electronics (think about what would happen in the US) especially the Iraqis Military Communications, as known that the Iraqis Military was Command Driven (no individual initiative, must be Ordered to do everything), this stopped the Iraqis Military Command from redeploying their Main Iraqis Military Forces to the South, and stopped them from forming a cohesive defense to the South to defend against the 2003 Main US Military Conventional Warfare Forces. To keep the Iraqis Military Command believing that the Main US Military Forces would come thru US Ally Turkey, we (two companies of Asymmetric Warfare Forces, and a few trained Kurdistanis Companies) destroyed 6 Full Strength Iraqis Armor and Mechanized Infantry Divisions, and the 2 Full Strenght Iraqis Armor and Mechanized Infantry Divisions that were held in Reserve; without any airstrikes, how we did that is none of your business. This is why the 2003 US Military Forces met limited or no resistance from the Iraqis Military.

Unclassified references:

"All Necessary Means: Employing CIA operatives in a Warfighting Role Alongside Special Operations Forces", Colonel Kathryn Stone, Professor Anthony R. Williams (Project Advisor), United States Army War College (USAWC), 7 April 2003

Operation Hotel California: The Clandestine War inside Iraq, Mike Tucker, Charles Faddis, 2008, The Lyons Press

Redacted.

"Gobbles?"

Pretty much.

Their definition of "special forces" is probably

1)Professional troops of the Libyan military

2)Irregulars of the same tribe as Gaddafi, capable of infiltrating the loyalist movement for a coup de grace

3)Persons familiar with Sirte or Tripoli or the Gaddafiplexes

Not like they've had time to actually grow special operations units, even with possible help from foreign nations. The lack of proper equipment and insufficient time and facilities to train mean a different definition is in play. However, it doesn't mean that they won't do the job...

4)Maybe they are NATO special forces posing as "Freedom Fighters" wink wink

Their definition of "special forces" is probably

My guess would be that anyone NOT wearing a t-shirt and flip flops would fit into the "special forces" category.

More often than not fighting is psychological. Look at Somalia, which has been dominated by nothing but men in trucks and the shifting allegiances of bands of followers in their technicals. If you can win a battle just by having enough trucks and scaring a few of the other sides trucks into changing sides...

Definitely more in common with condottieri than national armies.

Xe ( blackwater ) has been protecting the Bush extended family in Saudia Arabia , maybe Xe let some of thier merc's take family leave to act as special ops in Lybia

William, MSM is not dumb just following orders from higher up. Trust noone in the media not Fox, CNN, MSNBC any of them. They all have to answer to someone and spin it to that persons ideal.

good, very good

KingK,

You're correct. NATO will be involved until Qaddafi is caught and or killed. If they leave before that there is a good chance Qaddafi would probably take back over half the country via another revolt against the rebels. Especially since they, the Rebels, seem to have no problem executing people wholesale just like the guy they are replacing.

Wish everyone got that from the beginning. Both of these guys stink. It just depends on which pile of excrement you want to climb into bed with.

Libya Draft Constitutional Charter for the Transitional Stage

Part One
General Provisions
Article (1)

Libya is an independent Democratic State wherein the people are the source of authorities. The city of Tripoli shall be the capital of the State. Islam is the Religion of the State and the principal source of legislation is Islamic Jurisprudence (Sharia).

There you go, Pat-2643768, SSGDave-556

Arabic is its official language while preserving the lingusitic and cultural rights of all components of the Libyan society.

Too bad we cannot make English the Official Language of the United States of America. Press #1. For English. Press #2. Espanol.

The State shall guarntee for non-Muslims the freedom of practising religious rights and shall guarantee respect for their systems of personal status.

Did not work too well for current Egypt, with the Bombings and attacks of the Christian Churches. Really, sad because years ago before all of this, I lived with the locals at Egypt while attending College (Arabic, and Islam). Sad to say current Islamic Laws are diametrically opposed to Christianity, Judaism, or any other Religion. With the only exemption from Islamic Subjugation (becoming a Muslim) and Mandatory Islamic Tithes (Taxes) being the Mandate of Exemption from Mohammad himself for the Christians at one Christian Monastery Only.

Where Charlie Wilson ?

i'm getting old, so memory fails, but wasn't "freedom fighters" the term used in the Iran-contra affair, or maybe that was just a movie starring ron and ollie.

madMarinedad - i'm getting old, so memory fails, but wasn't "freedom fighters" the term used in the Iran-contra affair, or maybe that was just a movie starring ron and ollie.

That whole thing dealing with Oliver North and Iran, was because at that time the US Congress did not believe in overthrowing the Fundamental Islamic Government of Iran by supplying the Anti Fundamentalist Islamic Pro US and Pro Shah of Iran Iranians with weapons. So Colonel Oliver North got his butt hauled into a US Congressional Hearing, because he did this behind their backs (someone(s) at US Congress had to know).

Of course this was completely hypocritical, see post#1.38. That is why most of us take detailed notes after that, so we do not become scapegoats.

Where's your proof.

Every nutjob who references this b.s. conspiracy theory has no proof for it. I want to see some.

Thomas

You forgot Zimbabwe and South Africa - genocide against whites!

Let me tell you why. Early this year I was approached by an Israeli company who was buying up political blogs about becoming a features writer on Middle Eastern issues. They had just purchased 18 political blogs. My instructions were to write stories about the tensions in the Middle East BUT I was never to mention Israel in ANY context.

Its called media manipulation. They are buying the media and controlling it. Anyone who thinks I am full of it is welcome to look at my email collection from these people.

@Pat, what about the genocide against Blacks those Whites had practiced for years before?

Thanks for your service to our country, I think the Special Forces they are referring to is Al Qaeda (The Bin Laden Brigade). Intel from agencies around the globe have been squawking about the mass influx of Al Qaeda entering Libya now that their arch nemesis is out of power.

... or maybe pizza delivery guys that Muammar stiffed way back when .....

Where's your proof they're Al Qaeda?

All I see are a bunch of bobble-heads repeating the dumb Al Qaeda conspiracy with no proof.

I heard he is a Czar with the current administration. As a fashion coordinator to Michelle Obama, after all when you spend over $10 million on vacations in 2011 you need to ensure you are dressed appropriately

listen to the clowns whine, when the previous pres set a record for vacation taken by any president. (and at record cost) but they never mention that little detail.

next thing these clowns will be doing is trying to convince people that the entire armed forces are fully mobilized and follow Obama wherever he goes. like the mindless suckers that actually believed the idiotic e-mail that said twenty or so navy ships and a carrier battle group were mobilized solely for Obama's China trip.

Well you know how it is, danwill. The wingnuts survive on hate, fearmongering, hyperbole and grandstanding. Facts and logic are not required.