"31 US troops die in helicopter crash in Afghanistan"

As a vet, tears come to my eyes.

Hey Franklin:

Never, ever, ever read a post completely. Always jump to conclusions without being fully informed.

You sound like a Neo-Con,"if you ask questions or have a different point of view, then you can't be loyal" That is BS! Oh by the way,I AM a SOLDIER! Beat that with a stick,Sir!!!

I miust admit the truth of his words. I am not speaking from an easy chair!

Charles III:

If your post was directed to me, I'm going to put this to you as I did to Franklin: Read the whole damned post.

T

This is a bunch of crap and these fine men have died in vain! It has been ten years and nothing has been accomplished,nothing no one DAMN THING! Can it be said that afghanistan has been brought out of the seventh century and in the 21st century? No that can not be said they are still backwards fools worshipping a god{allah} that does not exist,still stoning women,homosexuals and adulterers based on a 1400 year old ravings of a pedophile! NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING accomplished I am so angry let's get the hell out of this whole damn area it is the armpit of the world! Bring them all home now. I defy anyone to tell me what has been accomplished?

Does Obama really want to get reelected? If he really does he would expedite withdrawal from all the muslim countries,to me it is obvious that the anti-war feelings run across all political lines. I believe we have found common ground between liberal and conservative,does anyone advocate staying in these areas? Only ones I know of are Mcain and Obama? Anyone else think the USA should stay in afghanistan democrat,republican,green independent?

31 MORE BODY BAGS FILLED WITH OUR FATHERS, BROTHERS, SONS...

How many more does it take before we bring them home alive and whole???

This 'war' has become so heartbreakingly sickening to the American people that we can hardly take any more.

Do we have to go over there ourselves and bring home our guys?

DO SOMETHING NOW, YOU SADISTS ON THE HILL!

Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different resulsts. America is certifiably insane.

Afghanistan is and always will be hopeless. We never learn anything. How'd the Russians do there for 10 years?, it cost them the cold war. You can not make "nations", and tribal people are just that. General Patreus is the poorest excuse for a miltary leader than we have had in decades. He policy of "nation building" is an abject failure and he never saw a war he didn't want part of. We went over there to end Al Queda's training camps, NOT to fight the Taliban. We are sending young people to die, for absolutely nothng, because when we leave, and we will, within two years it will look like we were never even there. That's insanity.

Sure appreciate that "change" President Obama.

PeaceLover, all of us on both sides have said "enough" years ago. George Will (a conservative) wrote the best piece on this war over a year ago in the Washington Post. Just google George Will on Afghanistan. Everything he wrote has come true, and everything he said about this being "never ending" is right on the money. Peace now, and no more "occupations", which this is, ever again in a Muslim Country. If our national security is involved then we put them into the stone age, period.

Here's my point why wage a war we can't win, We've been here numerous times before with the same outcome, yet We persist, it's not that our troops are the problem, they are the best, but if We are going to continue too send them into harms way with their hands bound behind their backs this will be just another Vietnam, take off the gloves and at-leastgive them a chance too WIN .... There is no rules of engagement.

Dan:'' Do you offer any proof that there is no God'' I am an agnostic that is not against religion if it works to help the poor and feed children,comforts people that are grieving,helps people cope with their inevitable own demise these are good things. You do understand that an agnostic would rephrase your question?

I thought Obama promised to end these wars?

My deepest condolences to the the soldiers and their families.

Pull out, there is no way to win a war in Afghanistan. Did we not learn anything from Vietnam or the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? No matter how much technology we bring you can not fight an enemy you can't see.

It is a lose lose situation in Afghanistan.

North Korea views religion as the domain of the demented. Obviously the people need a strong government not a fictitious ghost. The people in N. Korea are very happy. They know that Kim Jong-il looks out for their every need.

freedman1 What does this mean? Noth Korea can you explain?

We can't win in the conventional sense unless we are willing to commit to a generational stay - 25 to 30 years. That's how long it would take for us to educate the kids who would be able to make the difference as the current adults die off. Is anyone willing to make that kind of committment?

I would disengage and bring all out troops home. Not only from the mid-east, but from Europe and Asia. If the Koreans want us there, fine, they can pay us to stay. Ditto the Germans. One of the main reasons Europe has been able to offer universal healthcare and other socialist "benefits" is because we provided a good portion of their national defense.

And when we pull out we establish a policy: you attack our interests, we put you, as the previous poster put it, into the stone age.

Sure Peace. North Korea is actually The Democratic People's Republic of Korea. It was another war America was involved in that didn't turn out completely as planned. You can read more at http://www.korea-dpr.com/

freedman1 Uh duh?

Seventeen years have passed since the death of President Kim Il Sung (1912-1994), father of socialist Korea. However, his image as a great man of the century remains etched deep in the memory of many people around the world.

He was a peerlessly great man who authored the guiding ideology of the era of independence and thus illumined the way for mankind to take.

He created the original man-centred Juche idea, the first of its kind in the human history of ideology, and provided mankind with an ideological basis for carving out their destiny.

The Juche idea holds that man is the master of everything and decides everything , that is, the masses of the people are the masters and the driving force of the revolution and construction. The evolution of this idea ushered in a new era, the era of independence, in which the working masses, who had been treated as the mere object of domination and oppression, emerged in the historical arena as the masters of the world and powerful force for carving out their own independence destiny.

Why are we still in Afghanistan? We got Bin Laden and he wasn't even in that country. Get the eff out now, and if we get good intelligence about other Al Qaeda leaders' locations, Seal Team 6!

Thank you to the souls who have lost their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. May your families find peace knowing that you loved your country enough to fight for all of us.

Once again those that are not here (Afghanistan) or have never been here (Afghanistan) have the most to say.

Condolences to the Families, please donate to the Red Cross specifically to help these families.

It is a sad day (night) for the Joint US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces, JSOC, the loss of each those that took decades to train and gain operational experience.

lynseypug - I beseech you not to forget the 56,000 men and women who gave their lives in VietNam.

Another tragic loss of brave Americans for an utterly worthless cause. My sympathies go out to their families, and I really wish there were some consolation, some way to spin this into believing they died defending our nation. But that would be a lie.

Bring our troops home and let the Afghan tribes fight it out amongst themselves to decide who gets to control the opium production...

''He was a peerlessly great man who authored the guiding ideology'' not really surprised {freedman} that the north korean leader is your idol. sorry I tried to communicate with you and will try not to make that mistake again.

freedman1

Obama lied and now more troops have to die...

peace - I suppose you didn't take the time to look at the link I sent. That is actually from The Democratic People's Republic of Korea forum - the most recent posting from a citizen.

Get the hell out of this God forsaken hell hole now; our troops are fighting a holding patten, until they go home, bring our troops home now.

Freedman, off the med's again? North Korea is one of the saddest places on this planet. It is removed from all the world to see, because if they saw it it would repulse them. It is a total totalitarian state where mass food shortages kill tens of thousands yearly. The mortality rate among newborns is as bad as the Sudan. Their infrastructure is third world, and the only real middle class carries the weapons of a lunatic. Inbred monsters run the show there, and it isn't pretty. The difference between north and south Korea, is like one lives in caves with no sun, the other half lives in the sun with an educated popoulation, and is a strong player in the global world.

JCB ~ Give it some time. The Juche idea holds that man is the master of everything and decides everything. Evolution did not happen overnight either.

A NATO helicopter crashed in Afghanistan killing 31 U.S. special-forces troops and 7 Afghan commandos

NATO carrying our special forces teams? I'm not buying this - for so many reasons...

This is NOT a political statement.....it's time to end using these chinooks. They are like flying cows. Slow, cumbersome and so big that they are shot down easily. The viet cong used to shoot these down with mortars. At one point a chinook upended and landed on a platoon at an lz. killing 40 GI's. Payload is no excuse for stupidity. The military should have stopped using these in 1969. Disheartening after all these years we still haven't learned; on many levels.

All of our helicopters in Afghanistan are NATO helicopters. The fact that they were built in America, piloted by Americans, carrying men and equipment to Americans, doesn't change the fact that this is a NATO mission.

People should take a course in PolitSpeak.

freedman, what's your point? unfortunately the US is nato. Politspeak?

SwellSurfer88
WHAT THE @!$%#?!!!! FU.CK this piece of crap administration and their retarded mis-guided ideals. We need to revolt NOW!! Our government is out of control and it needs to be stopped now!! Our soldiers are being killed in vein and we're all just sitting on the sidelines as they pay the price for our corporations greed. It's one of the seven deadly sins and not ONE of the real sinners is paying for it. It's our soldier's and fellow countryman's blood!"

Some of what you say I agree with, but it's not "my corporations!"

Actually we should have revolted when Bush started these illegal, for profit wars.

Are you a Veteran?

We are NOT going to accomplish anything in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Why can't we cut our loses and get out now? How can we destroy so many young lives? What a sad day for our soldiers and all of us.

nico ~ that was in reference to post #1.38

From David Walker's citation at 1.2:

a war that might well cost us tens of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives of Americans, and many more hundreds of thousands of physically maimed and mentally unbalanced men.

Of course, for this loss, there would be a compensating profit -- fortunes would be made. Millions and billions of dollars would be piled up. By a few. Munitions makers. Bankers. Ship builders. Manufacturers. Meat packers. Speculators. They would fare well.

Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn't they? It pays high dividends.

But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?

What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?

Yes, and what does it profit the nation?

Take our own case. Until 1898 we didn't own a bit of territory outside the mainland of North America. At that time our national debt was a little more than $1,000,000,000. Then we became "internationally minded." We forgot, or shunted aside, the advice of the Father of our country. We forgot George Washington's warning about "entangling alliances." We went to war. We acquired outside territory. At the end of the World War period, as a direct result of our fiddling in international affairs, our national debt had jumped to over $25,000,000,000. Our total favorable trade balance during the twenty-five-year period was about $24,000,000,000. Therefore, on a purely bookkeeping basis, we ran a little behind year for year, and that foreign trade might well have been ours without the wars.

It would have been far cheaper (not to say safer) for the average American who pays the bills to stay out of foreign entanglements. For a very few this racket, like bootlegging and other underworld rackets, brings fancy profits, but the cost of operations is always transferred to the people -- who do not profit.

Ten years of grinding up America's finest in this sh!thole...for what !?

I can't believe some of the rhetoric on here, especially from those who are advocating the removal of our troops from Afghanistan, yet using arguments riddled with intolerance and the "ugly American" attitude that the rest of the world resents so much.

First of all, let's look at the word "let". We are going to "let" the tribes fight it out amongst themselves, we'll "let" them figure out their own system of government, we'll "let" them go on praying to their ancient shepherd or pedophile God or any of the other descriptions that I've seen used here for other people's deities. We are going to "let" them live their own lives, in their own sovereign nations. How noble of us. Does it not occur to anyone how inherently imperialistic this kind of language is? We have no right to be there, period. We have no right to "let" them do anything. They had that right before we arrived, they have it still and will always have it. It is not up to us to "let" them do or think or believe anything.

For those with a short view of history, keep in mind that the Middle East was a haven for learning and human development at the same time that Europe was plunged in the Dark Ages. More recently, Afghanistan was considered a sophisticated culture and women could be doctors, teachers or belong to any other number of professions...that is, until we helped the Taliban in a characteristically shortsighted bid to sabotage the Soviets. It seems that there's no limit to the ill-advised or just plain wrong things we as a nation are capable of in the name of our own self-interest.

Do we ever think that it's this sort of piggish American attitude that makes us so hated around the world? Many of you here are talking about leaving Afghanistan, but your words are still full of your inherent disrespect for anything foreign and your adherence to the ethos of the super-powered American bully.

Were the 9/11 attacks justifiable? No. Were they understandable? Yes. We need to take a long hard look at the laws of cause and effect and make a dispassionate analysis of our own involvement in the world's ills. Only then will we be able to make intelligent policy decisions and maybe stop ourselves from repeating these disasters, over and over again.

''Were the 9/11 attacks justifiable? No. Were they understandable?yes''AngryYoungWoman............ I think this is ridiculous to state this and I am pretty sure you would not be foolish enough to say this to one of the grieving family members? You think it is understandable that 3000 innocent people were not able to go home to their families?

People should take a course in PolitSpeak.

In your rush to winning the A-Hole award, did it ever dawn on you that what I said may have been in sarcasm - or is it you are not old enough to remember all the stellar missions NATO is known for pulling off?

Look me up in the GAL, I have a SIPR account, cupcake.

peace ~ I think angry was speaking toward the cause, which she has identified to do with constant meddling in the affairs of others. True unbelievers and infidels, like China and N. Korea, don't suffer retribution attacks from muslim terrorists.

PolitSpeak does exist, John. The United States isn't really involved in Libya bombings either, it's a NATO enterprise. There was no offense meant to you, I'm surprised you took it.

Anyway, how cool of you to have a The Secret Internet Protocol Router.
--------------
'I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.' - George W. Bush

Peace be upon the victims and Blessings for the victims families. both US forces and Afghan civilians.

AngryYoungWoman I am from New York and this is what America need's to do,first off Impeach everyone for doing such a piss poor job,stop all foreign add! don't give anything away anymore,stop fighting for other country's, take away all tax cuts until this is settled, stop giving green cards out, next war send our prisoner's to save on tax payers money and save the good men & woman that have a chance at life,clean all the illegal Immigrant's out of our Country!get Religion out of Politics you will find it gets much easier and we do not need another Bible Thumper in Office this must happen for the rest to even have a chance in hell to work, guy's repeat this message so they can get it to sinks in please, Thank you WE do not need people like you to speak your thought's anymore enough is enough.

@PeaceLover--I realize that "understandable" has a few shades of meaning, which is why I strove to separate it from "justifiable". I mean "understandable" in the primary sense, which is simply: "able to be understood". This does not imply any sympathy on my part with those who committed the atrocities of the 9/11 attacks.

I see the people who died in those attacks and their grieving family members as victims first of the bombers and their underlying organization and second, of disastrous American foreign policy.

We MUST look at the bigger picture. Striking back immediately at those who we think carried out a particular attack is not the right solution. We have to ask what has led to such an event, what frictions exist and why. Immediate retaliation of the kind that we implemented in that unhinged campaign in Iraq is not only the product of totally unsound reasoning but also a classic case of "put a band-aid on the amputation". It was purely reflexive.

In order to create good solutions, we must have an equally good understanding of the situation as a whole. We must think of what we can do on our end to not just strike back when hit but to prevent such hits from occurring in the first place. Such thinking will lead us to reassessing our own policies, rather than laying a heavy iron fist over every country that offends us.

AngryYoungWoman oh ok.

It would be nice if we could have a country that is safe from the madness of a very few, very wealthy and very powerful individuals.

Time to drop the bombs and make sure they didn't die in vain. There isn't any reason to tip-toe around any more. These nuts want to take over the world in the name of the religion of peace. It's time for them to find peace and meet their 72 virgins. Then we can bring everyone home and have some peace.

Time to fight to win or get the heck out.

On another note, the Majority of all Congressmen and Senators are STILL making a profit on these wars. The same people who are committing your sons, daughters, fathers, brothers, sisters etc. to go patrol in the middle of a countries like sitting ducks.

Its amazing, the more they make individually in Washington the worse we do as a country.

Flag draped caskets for cash seems to be the theme in the United States.

Just go about your business and don't give it another thought my fellow Americans.

Disgraceful.

Many are dead. Yet the real rulers of this country are happy that they are going to sell more helicopters to the tax payer. This is the sick ruling elite our soldiers are dying for. They are fighting the wars of others. When will you wake up?

US Special Op Navy Seal Forces kill Osama Bin Laden

Taliban/Terrorists kill 25 Special Op Navy Seals

Looks like the Taliban/Terrorists are winning

I cannot think of larger waste of American blood and treasure than this Afghanistan Quagmire. But of course the American Government cannot admit defeat and Lose Face after 10 years, right?

OMG:

This war has got to end.

What is the main objective in staying in Afghanistan?

Navy Seals---it doesn't matter whether it's the best of the best US Military or our loyal others; my sincere condolences to all the families. Maybe they will put pressure on inexperienced Commander in Chief; he doesn't know we're finished there--the Taliban have already taken over/just like Hamas who run Palestine's Government---OUT!

When is President Obama going to have an awakening after 11 years, that this IS another Viet Nam. Let it go---let our people go from there--

Pakistan, Afghanistan are hell holes, They don't want a Democracy, and are very happy with the Taliban running the Government.

Karzai. How does he feel about our loss of US Soldiers?---He is bad, bad, bad.

Get out now, while we can save our butts. I am so sick of the loss of US Military Lives for what seems to be NOTHING.

There are bigger pictures, larger than what is seen and talked about. Wars benefit weapons manufacturers, companies like Haliburton, Raytheon, and a host of others of similar ilk. The military creates little 'Americas' bases, complete with Burger Kings and Domino pizza. The material support for the troops, the uniforms, the food, fuel, everything, is bought and paid for and sustains economies.

Then you have the banksters loaning the money to pay for the war and they loan to one and all, indiscriminately. I am reminded of the slogan that came out of Nam...War is good business, invest your son.

It is all so sad and my heart grieves for the families who lost loved ones.

mygirl1, wars benefit the bankers because war gives the government a blank check to go and borrow at tax payer expense. Banks create money out of thin air when we borrow. Then they demand interest for it. It is a scheme run for 2 centuries. It is financial slavery of the world.

www.kondratieffwavecycle.com/web-of-debt/

Tit for,Tat can last forever.

Get the boots off the ground and air. Use the drone missiles please or just get out period!

Strike from above forget about the Civilian Casualties, forget about Criticisms and SAVE AMERICA LIVES FIRST

mygirl1:

Balderdash on the explanation.

There are serious reasons for a War. History is not being taught in the US Schools today, like years ago--

It is important to know your history, because history tends to repeat itself.

Stay awake. War was at our door almost 10 years ago, Sept. 11th---

World War 1, World War 2, The Civil War, The American Revolution, and et al. There IS a purpose for War, not for Captialism (very naive)---you would be governed by Iran, Russia, Europa or the likes, if matters were not solved between countries.

Pacifist; get real. Afghanistan is one of those "useless Wars, like Viet Nam".

david-475776 if that's your wish, you are welcome to stay in Afghanistan, even if we withdraw our troops.

I agree with everyone here that says we need to end our involvement in this mess. I don't want to see one more of our guys come back in a bag.

But let's look at this from another angle. We supposedly killed Osama the other day. We have not seen a body. We have not seen a picture of a body. We have not seen one shred of evidence that we didn't just kill a fellow who resembled him. Actually, we haven't seen that. No one who was there is allowed to discuss it, and we dump the body at sea. No pictures. Nada. No eyewitness testimony, no DNA, nothing!!! Just our government's word and a hollow promise we'll see something later. This is the same government that lies to us all the time. Now, not only are the guys that did the job not allowed to talk about it. Now some, maybe most are dead.

Coincidence? No such thing.

sad story to hear more of our own fallen to the act of war....

meantine, those bawling "time to bring them home" since day one, commenting how sic you are of this, that and what have in regaurds to these war need to realise there are casualties of war on both sides. if you think because we are America, our men should be on full right to kill or other with no such effect to our own sides, you live in a fantasy land. its war, people die in war. good people, bad people, but most of all, the people who fight in war. its why there are armies, and enemies.

My heart goes out to the families of all these young men. They were our best and bravest, and gave everything they had (literally) in the service of their country. They knew the risks of what they chose to do in life, and did it anyway. They deserve nothing less than our utmost respect and admiration. I salute you, members of Seal Team Six who gave your lives in the service of your country. You will never be forgotten.

Tragic Loss. I join in saluting these brave yong men...never to be forgotten in their sacrifice to their country. Some of America's finest and most talented soldiers gone in an instant. When are we going to get out of this war...let our brave soldiers come home to protect America and it's borders from offensive threats, and stop trying to fight a war of ideology across the ocean...with this current war, I fear we are only playing into the hands of the violent ideology we fight. Thanks to the brave Seal Team 6, we have brought the mastermind of the 9-11 attack on America to justice...and that is a warning to all who would attempt to harm us again...now lets bring our soldiers home, and work on protecting and rebuilding our own broken country. So very sad for us all. All Americans grieve with the loved ones of these brave, talented soldiers.

"It amazes me that the brain-dead lardas.ses in Washington STILL can't see this. But then again, I shouldn't be."

They know what is going on. We are being used as the "police force" for the UN and get to pay for it in lives and US dollars. This is not in the "Defense of the United States" as is required.

"I defy anyone to tell me what has been accomplished?"

We are doing the United Nations war for them as per our agreement to get into the "World Economy/World Order". It has cost us trillions to be involved as a "part of the World Economy" but has made them; banks, UN, Free Trade, etc wealthier and more in control of the world.

This POTUS and his administration (Bush and his administration also) had/has no problem going against the US Constitution. Article VI requires an oath by all other government officials from all three branches, the military, and the States swearing to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. They swear to defend the Constitution before anything else!

It is also very Significant that every Federal employee from the President on down, the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, all Military; every federal employee takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity.

President: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Everyone else "I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Military: The Oath of Office (for officers): "I, ____— (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of ____— do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees): "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

This chopper was carrying Seal Team 6 members. Was this a coincidence or were the Taliban tipped off so they could extract a measure of revenge for Bin Laden?

And it's 1 - 2-3-4 what are we fightin' for?

I don't know and I don't give a damn

Next stop's Afghanistan...........

Bring back any memories? I can't believe we STILL haven't figured out Eisenhower's warning of the Industrial Military Complex and the lessons we should have learned in SE Asia! As a vet, I damned angry that we lost a lot of valuable experience and expertise, and my heart is heavy for the loved ones from this incident, and all the past ones as well as the one's yet to come. Afghanistan is the most invaded country in recorded civilization and has never, ever been conquered. Never. Get the hell out NOW!!!!!

Put them all on one chopper to save what?.....Time?......Money for fuel? Because they could?

It's an awful waste of life because one sh it fingered terrorist with a 50 dollar used Russian/Chinese shoulder fired rocket launcher with some luck kills 31 of our best trained most skilful men in uniform. A sh it bird with a 10 dollar missile.

Why stuff 31 guys in a helicopter the size of a house that can't get out of its own way? Senseless. Completely senseless.

This is a horrible loss of the best warriors on the planet. Joint operation with the Afghans? Carrying the Seal team that hit Obama? Call me paranoid, but I suspect this whole operation was a set up, with Afghan military providing up-to-the-minute information on the location and contents of that chopper to the Taliban. Probably the target was a trap to begin with. How many Taliban do you think are working in the Afghan military? Our intel guys are in lala land...

A Dreadful Sight -

It is a dreadful sight to behold all the vast majority of these members of The Party of Noooo and its support group The Tea Baggers have never seen a day of combat or even worn the uniform of our Military yet are to wont to waste our much needed tax revenue and the lives of our young, our young that only see war as an escape from poverty. The only war these politicians seem to have the stomach for is to wage war on the elderly surviving on Social Security, the infirm barely able to afford Medicare and those so far down the poverty line they receive a scaled down version of Medicare called Medicaid, I may have this a little off I do not participate in amy of this but read this is how the system is operated as I read and understand it.

These brave warriors I refer to the Tea Baggers and The Party of NOooo. The most sane are the Chuck Hagel’s and his type but they are out and they have practically been run out of politics and have no voice in the party. Instead we have this Cantor and the money bagman for Ensign Tom "Bagman the Fixer" Coborn that guy that blocked the burial of our fallen, the sane have no voice or any place in said political party.

Even chicken livered McCain because the baggers want him out spoke out at the latest damages to the American people I mean the FAA debacle and the fix is only till mid-September then fly at your own risk I guess or the country is grounded and we saw the benevolence of those that front the Baggers, they pocketed the difference lol. What a show this is high comedy at its worst.

Is this for real are we living in a country of the people and for the people? I
think not.

This is a war of the Industrial-Military-Wall Street elite that make their and take their billions from the American tax payer while the proxies leave on a month vacation from straining themselves blocking petty union measures and pushing culture war on Americans, oh they work so hard. Last I heard we have over 1100 military bases around the world but need to pay for the run up of our national debt largely during the Bush years (W) and please don’t forget he only vetoed one congressional Bill in eight years so it matters not which party held power he held the pen and could have said we cannot afford this spending without increasing revenues but he never did so we went from about 4.5 in
debt to somewhere around 10.5 depending on what you want to count as I do not count the money borrowed from the Social Security fund rather the GAO does not and other off the book expenses that all totaled in reality take the number higher. Now we have to pay for this even if not counted we pay now or later as we are now in proposed austerity programs to finally pay on the backs of those least able to pay. Why doesn’t the congress lead and take a 25% cut in pay to only 150,000 per year with no $25 thousand or more to speak at some rubber chicken speakathon? These are pay-offs come on how dumb do they think the American people are?

This is really money used to buy these politicians off to put in them in the pockets of special interests and leave Americans at the mercy of
the Enron’s of the world. It is time we called them all on this crooked and
obvious scheme to dis-enfranchise all of the citizens of America. The American
people are no longer in control these crazies will even close our air transport
and want to privatize all aspects of governance to their cronies in each state
and try to fool you and say the government cannot run anything so well as
corporations but we pay the same and higher and outsource to private corporations.

RIP – condolences to the families, wasted lives as I am a lucky parent my son did two long tours and six years of active duty and he says this is a waste of lives and American tax payer money. No Pell Grants, raise tuition, raise interest on student loans, waging a lost drug war that is a cottage industry with over 2 million Americans behind bars in our own homeland Gitmo, dumb down the country all the while wrecking the middle class and letting our infrastructure fall to pieces and worse, so the fat cats can get ever fatter wallets and ever finer togas for their pleasure, are these even human beings?

Good Day and Good Luck

Hawaii2: The last war that was fought for purely defensive and democratic ideals was WWII. The ensuing Cold War came about because of certain treaties made w/ the Soviet Union and Stalin. Most people aren't aware of the reasons we entered Viet Nam (blame the French) or Korea. China has sat like a looming menace for decades. The Cold war and the ensuing conflicts were over ideologies, communism vs capitalism. The individual vs the collective. Interesting how things have changed. Now the Chinese are the capitalists, the Russians are the looming presence and America is rapidly becoming a collectivist country ruled by the ever more powerful Federal Government. The politicans in DC are the polit-buro of America, they live the life once accorded to royalty and the peons (citizen comrades) pay for their largesse. Only thing missing are the dachas on the lake.

Persevere: You make some good points but your finger only points at one group, the democrats are equally, if not more, culpable here. All politicans are toadys to the international banking cartels, the mega-corporations and the democrats are complicit in the creation of the welfare state which is what the dumbing down of America is all about. We have fascism masquerading as capitalism, and both parties are culpable. The teaparty is getting bad press because they don't follow the status quo, they aren't being bought and must be destroyed to maintain the status quo.

"Our government is out of control and it needs to be stopped now!"

Our government is "out of control" because it is going and has been going against the US Constitution which is against their Oath to be in the Office or Position that they are in.

The Oath and US Constitution 10 - Powers of the States and People ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people") is what makes them accountable to us, "We the People..." The accountability within the Oath is that they all have to ".. support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same".

The Preamble sets forth the goals or purposes of the Constitution. The opening and closing words of the Preamble—“We the people of the United States […] do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America” define our government as a “popular sovereignty, a government ordained and established by the consent of the people. America is a constitutional republic where elected representatives swear to uphold the Constitution as they serve at the will and by the consent of the people.

When they are no longer keeping the US Constitution strong, are not governing as it mandates, are not doing what is best for America and it's citizens.

They are doing what is best for the "World Economy/World Order" and it has cost us jobs that "our" own government paid to move to foreign nations. Cost us lives in wars that are not ours to be in. Cost us billions of US dollars we still send to the very nations we are "at war" with via the UN.

Our military is not the UN's to dictate as to where they are to be used, yet. But they are already being used as if they are.

WE need to fire them now. Have them escorted out of office by a law enforcement that will do what is right for our nation and follow their Oath to defend the US Constitution. Then we need to prosecute them.

Their replacements will not repeat their mistakes if we do this. But is we wait until elections they will keep working against the US Constitution, the United States, and its citizens as they are doing now.

We are wasting lives and money over there for a people that hates us and are so ungrateful. They are all drug addicts and we get nothing out of this but too many body bags being shipped home to a grieving family. It's time to leave and let em all just kill each other. With our economy it's time we start looking after ourselves and stop policing the world. Time to bring our troops home guard our own borders and any of those neurotic religious idiots mess with us we flatten their country and they can rebuild the slums themselves. I'm so damn tired of hearing about these ignorant pajama camel riding idiots everyday about our young soldiers being killed. Ship the illegals home and bring our troops home and our debt will fix itself.

@Dan H-540362:

PeAcE LoVeR - Do you offer any proof that there is no God or is this your personal religious belief?

1. You cannot prove a negative; the onus of the positive assertion is always on the one making it. It's like proving Big Foot does not exist. It's poor logic. Therefore, sir, you must prove to us that there is a god. Which one would be nice as well.

2. "Is this your personal religious belief?" Yes, much as not bowling is my personal hobby.

Please. You sound like a reasonable man. Try to think that way when it comes to matters of "faith".

Jon, Dan's response was to an assertion that god does not exist. I think that Dan was asking the person that made the assertion to back it up - but that wasn't done.

If I tell you that bigfoot does not exist, it's pretty reasonable that someone might ask me how I can know this for certain.

my condolences to the families of these brave soldiers and civilians.

please, its long past the time to bring our troops home. bring them home NOW!

I thought Obama said he was going to end these "wars" during his election campaign. They're actually invasions.

Why is it necessary to mention what units the victims were from? Why give the Taliban the satisfaction of knowing that they killed Elite soldiers, particularly the ones who got Bin Laden. I’m sure they are celebrating big time today after hearing the news. We don’t need to know about every single death that occurs overseas, nor do we need to know every little detail about the victims. Hundreds of thousands die in our own country every year from shootings and automobile accidents, etc. Its just part of life, we don’t need to have it constantly rubbed in our faces on a daily basis. But I guess that is what passes for news these days. People will always die during wars and hopefully there wont be any wars eventually but in the meantime we can at least be thankful that far fewer people die fighting for this country than even die of drowning or other accidents right here on US soil. We can at least be thankful for that. 30 million people around the world died during WW2 but these days war losses are in the thousands.

Ken F, i was thinking the same damn thing. We give them toooo much info!

One more thing: When transporting high value targets like Seal teams in the future it might be better to divide them up into small groups traveling on several smaller helicopters, even when they are just traveling from base to base and not going into battle. I really don’t mind paying for the extra aviation fuel. Just a thought.

Obamas Dirty Secret: Becoming the ultimate Neo-Con, King Obama has greatly expanded US Special OPs assassination teams now engaged in 120 Countries http://is.gd/yKQkE3

I think the Nobel committee should actually move to revoke Obama's Peace Prize. Otherwise, the Peace Prize is diminished entirely, and has no future meaning.
------------------
"Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population." ~ Thorbjorn Jagland, chairman of the Nobel committee

Ben:

Good comments.

It is TRUE, many of the Navy Seals Team 6 (of which there are not that many) have lost their lives for the extension of the War in Afghanistan. They are HEROES; but what does it matter that now they are dead?

Wasn't the original purpose under George W. Bush to "get" Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan?---Now it has turned out to be a full-fledged War against the Taliban-It's Obama's War--how many Top Military Generals have been taken out of there?

Let Karzai deal with the Taliban. Let our International Intelligence Agencies deal with keeping America safe from all Terrorists.

My anger is in a rage right now--I cannot believe it. Obama, Happy 50th Birthday--did you have FUN?

To all you dumb rednecks (sorry, redundant) who bash Obama or his adminstration; you are the same dumbphucks who got on the flag-waving wagon to attack "the nexus of evel," and the war on terrorism. You saps have no clue why we are killing our youth and sepnding billions there - it ain't not silly noble thing like democracy, or freedom or evenfighting terrorism.

La Maripoza:

Please tell me why we are still in Afganistan after 11 years--Educate me, please.

Why are we spending BILLIONS there to keep a Government like Karzai; a corrupt Dictator there in business?

There is no Democracy. The people who have been trained to fight the Taliban (the Afghani's) run away from their own Military. (my neighbor trained them in combat) They are of Tribal minds, who are doing something they hate--they fight amongst themselves---this is a thousands of years old story--how about the Russians who could not beat them? Illiterate Afghan Soldiers. Illiteracy is their downfall.

The Taliban-? Fight them. They already run the Afghan Government--and have spread out into Pakistan. Do you also want to go to War with another Corrupt Government--saving lives, and then having our US Military die for them, with absolutely NO APPRECIATION.

No, they just want to be left alone, in their highly financial money-making Poppy Fields.

Obama's got it wrong. Admit it---He can't be humble and admit it is a mistake-costing thousands of lives.

Now listen people, they didn't die for nothing, they died to keep billions of dollars flowing into the pockets of military contractors like KBR. Doesn't that make it all worthwhile? Now really, isn't that worth sacrificing the lives of 10,000 of your childre, and seriously injuring tens of thousands more of them? For what other purpose would anyone have kids other than to slaughter them for corporate profits?!?

You know what? Just go @!$%# yourselves anyone that thinks we should still be there... just go @!$%# off.

Here is a clue, China is there exploiting minerals (copper). They have no military there. Who do you think is providing security for the Chinese? Give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

Obama didn't get anything wrong - the president does not work in a vacuum he has advisors and other warmongers who push for wars; normally supported by flag-waving ignorant masses.

As for Cathee (1.164) what you suggest is terrorism. Is toilet paper the only thing that separates you from the barbarians? I wonder.

Every time I hear about one of these guys dying its makes sick. While our Politicians live in their bubble called "fantasy land" real people pay the price.

So many were made wealthy by these wars existing, honestly none of us really want to know the truth. While we fret over these deaths Politicians get lobbied by K-Street stuffed suits to continue fighting so the Haliburtons of the world can make their quarterly earnings.

We are truly broken on the Political front and if we would just open our eyes and stop arguing we would see the real villain right under our noises.

Militant attacks on Chinese overseas are rare. They don't bring their armies with them. Beijing does not tend to interfere in the internal matters of others.

The right to mining Afghan copper fields also involves construction of communications links like roads and railways in addition to units to process the mined copper. China has invested a total of 4 billion dollars in this project.

Karzai has always asserted that he wants to emulate "America's democracy and China's economic success".

romilio - david-475776 if that's your wish, you are welcome to stay in Afghanistan, even if we withdraw our troops.

My wish is that you and the other 92% of the US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military end up in the US Military (Ground Combat Forces of the USA or USMC, we would never accept you (lack of cognitive skills and sh!tty attitude) as Candidate Obama's Campaign Promise in instatement of the Selective Service, or the US finally having Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service. Candidate Obama, "US Military Service is a Civic Duty", "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement" (Translation: Earn your f**king US Citizenship. So that the 92% of you can speak about US Military from experience and not someone else's experience, like a virgin attempting to explain how sex feels. And people like you would finally be the last to say crapola about that which they know nothing about. This also makes it unnecessary for the 1% of the US Citizens currently Serving in the US Military to endure the hardships of the 92% of US Citizens that refuse Serve in the US Military. It will also make all of you think about getting the US Military involved in anything as it will be YOU, and not the "other guy".

Condolences again to those that died, their families ,and relatives at xxxxxxx xxxx Virginia, and xxxxxxxx California of USNSWDG. You will be missed.

The last time that we were ordered to leave (Cut and Run) we almost did stay, to help the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen that we trained rebuild Afghanistan, then we were told the consequences, as Disobeying a Direct Order, Desertion, Conduct Unbecoming of....., as the things that if we did stay and later return to the US we would be locked up for the rest of our lives under the UCMJ. During that time we already were seeing the rise of the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, and knew that they were going to massacre the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen that we trained and were with them as Combatants at their side, we had seen the results before in other Nations so it was not as surprise as to what happened next. Based on experience even back then if we were allowed to finish the Mission completely, we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces, NOT YOUR JACKARSE) would not be here again (we knew that we would be back to finish the job (now a UN Mission, Nation Building, to rebuild Afghanistan back into a "Little America" that it was before the Fundamental Islamic Taliban destroyed everything "Western", "Modern", or non Islamic of the 1960s to 1970s "Little America" Afghanistan, so cut the crap of "Living in Caves, and Mud Huts".), even back then).

You, romilio, sound just like a friend that would leave a best friend holding the bag to get murdered. Yes, we made friends here by living with the Afghans for about a decade or two, and not living on a secure FOB, COB, Air Base, or Green Zone.

Many of us are thinking of joining the Foreign Security Contractors (Diplomatic Immunity) that work for the US Department of State and other US Agencies that will be here after the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces and US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces have left.

How about you going up to the members of the USA SF, USAF SOWs, USMC MARSOC, and USN SEALs Stateside at Florida and tell them that what they believe in is wrong regarding Afghanistan. The more intellectual ones, the US Military Officers that lead them, will attempt to explain to you, the others will explain their feelings in another way. We do not determine where or for how long we will be sent, that is your elected self serving Professional Politicians that you keep reelecting.

And David Walker, I already told you to stop bringing up Smelly Butt. He was the worst, giving those speeches (1935) during the 1929-1939 Great Depression, while collecting his US Military Retirement, he gave those speeches so that he could make more money, since back then the pensions were not all that great (barely enough to eat). Ask yourself if he was not a hypocrite, why didn't he give up the money for his US Military Retirement and the money paid each month for his medals of honor (actions speak louder than Smelly Butt's words).

Taken in context, of those times he was just like everyone else attempting to survive the Great Depression by any means possible instead of starving to death.

I also told you to research who President Obama's buddy, "Mr. Corporate America" is. And gave you hints and one hour to post his name and you previously failed and received a Grade of F- (lack of cognitive research skills).

A. Hole Smith-1451820,

You honestly the Islamic Believers have not had as much or more Death Squads Worldwide. You believe that the "Special OPs assassination teams" Only run around killing people.

Ken F-1996858,

In my other posts, I talked all about being up here in the Pamir (Mountains). Including the details that you have had to have been here to see, like the high speed wind vortexes that suck aircraft, helicopters into the mountains; as to why we do NOT use our support Helicopters for anything until we get behind the FOBs. As using our support helicopters give away our location(s) from miles away (enemy with radio or cell phone (travel faster than any jet or helicopter), binoculars, magnetic compass and a home made clinometer) so that they can line up along the flight path and fire everything at us sequentially (leading the target (us) by different lengths). We are also talking about over 10,000 feet above sea level, requiring most of the helicopters to fly in the valleys with the enemy lined up along the ridges of the mountains, this is why the USSR specifically built models of aircraft and helicopters for high altitude Afghanistan, like the SU-25 (attack jet), Mil-17 (helicopter) and the modified Hind A/B (attack helicopters), fortunely for us (US Military Training Teams from Germany at Afghanistan during the USSR 40th Army Occupation, they arrived towards the end, and had marginal effect (too few to make a difference). I also mentioned the little known detail that the Stinger Missiles were ineffective, since their IFF was defeated by the USSR ECM pods transmitting the Friendly signal, preventing the Stinger Missiles from firing, as to why we raided the USSR Munitions depots for their SA-7s to shoot down their own aircraft (one of those got to have been here to know). This is why our version of the CH-47 are MH-47s, usually escorted by MH-6s (Attack Helicopters). The other thing we learned a very long time ago, is that little mistakes here get you killed, we know NEVER use helicopters in the daytime; unfortunely most US Military and NATO Aviators are NOT qualified to fly at night using NVG (ours are different (stereoscopic for depth perception, try driving at night with one eye covered over) why on the ground we use these for our missions (I previously told all of you about how the US Civilians of President Obama's US Civilian Surge of August 2009 at Kabul gave us a hard time to get our batteries prior to our upcoming mission(s) and what most other units are issued as monocular NVGs (including the USN SEALs, not the one's with us.)) and instruments only, flying NOE (Nap Of Earth).

Mark-768209,

How about going up to the families of the USN SEALs and Aviators Killed In Action or those that survived the 9/11 Attacks or the families of those that did not survive 9/11 and saying that.

Now, that would be Karma (what happens to you afterwards).

We can't afford to build new schools or roads in America, yet we're building more than a school a week over in Afghanistan and several miles of highway at a cost of $3 million per mile!!

http://roblorinov.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/boeing-rips-off-taxpayers-us-taxpayers-paying-for-new-highway-in-afghanistan/

david-475776 I did serve in the U.S. Military. The Army, to be exact. I volunteered at age 18. I have friends who gave their lives in VietNam. What did it get them? Why did they do it? What if they were still here?

Killing more people is never the answer. It is a continuation of the problem, an exacerbation. If your time in the military has taught you that killing is the answer to problems, then you have learned little. The Mexican drug gangs have the same mindset. The Mob would have agreed with you too. Stalin thought that was a good idea. Hitler embraced it. Chairman Mao & Pol Pot understood you.

I believe I do too.

why the he!! is it when America is bankrupt not to mention losing our AAA credit rating and people in our own country need help that we insist in being the worlds policeman especially in countries that don't want us there in the first place

NSA: Where were the terrorists trained and harbored? Pakistan and Afghanistan. Nuff said.

freedman1 - If your time in the military has taught you that killing is the answer to problems, then you have learned little.

Seems that you misread my posts or are just a troll. Our Mission as US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare Forces (NE Afghanistan) is to gain the trust of the Afghans, we help the Afghans build schools and medical clinics. We do not build these for them, we buy the local materials ($100 USDs) and let them build this gives them as sense of ownership (something they will defend with their lives). Between missions (mostly surveillance (special reconaissance), Counter Terrorism and some FID (FID was taken over by US Civilians that do not even know the language) we teach (nothing religious, I teach basic Mathematics and Science). One a weekly basis we move to another village, I lead my command team plus one support team, and we provide medical assistance to the villagers as most of us are also trained as Physcian's Assistants.

You are so full of sh!t. comparing me to your buddies, Hitler, Gangs, Mob, Stalin, Mao & Pol Pot, it is your being uninformed "Killing more people is never the answer" especially when dealing with your buddies. Just think what would have happened if the German Generals succeeded in blowing up Hitler, since they wanted to negotiate peace and end WWII.

Clearly evident that you NEVER learned anything from the US Army at Age 18 "young dumb and full of cum", more than likely you were in the US Army during peacetime and never had to face someone that had the clear intent of pulling the trigger on you to blow your sh!t away up close and personal.

Apparently I did misread your posts. Actually, the draft was going on, the war was going on, and I volunteered. But that's really not the point. What I saw, and what I learned, is that war is beyond horrible, that politicians of every breed will lie, that lives are wasted for political gain and not much else. Also, I learned that few people learn the lessons that are out there. 58,000 men and women died for really no apparent reason in VietNam. I have four tires on my truck - all made in VietNam. I wear Hanes underwear - made in VietNam. The United States is selling nuclear reactors to VietNam.

I don't hate the VietNamese. But I do hate the lies, the exaggerations, the total untruths that are used to justify killing other people. We didn't win in VietNam, and we STILL didn't have to fight them here. Almost all wars are based upon lies. 18 year olds don't really know this. I came to know it. I can never forget it.

If your goal is to help and to build, and not to destroy and to kill, then I back you 100%. We need more of that. Please accept my apology.

p.s. - in basic, you were close, but not exact. Our actual company slogan was

Rat chit
Bat chit
Bucket full of cum.
Ass kickin'
Mutherfukin'
B-2-1

We ran around saying that all day. I bet the Army doesn't have slogans like that anymore. But I don't know.

Keep this in mind. The decision to start a war with Libya was endorsed by both parties. True not everybody in both parties, but pretty much. They stood by Obama to escalate another war effort in the name of democracy that so far has gone on much longer than promised. Does that sound familiar?

What I really do not understand is why democrats that voted for Obama do not hold him responsible for all these loss of lives like they did Bush when a military death is a military death no matter the name given to the mission.

Bush didn't fund his wars, and neither is Obama. Bush was wrong to begin a war in Iraq, but he wasn't wrong to knock out the terrorists camps in Afghanistan. He was right to get out of there when we did and we should have pulled all troops. Obama comes along and ratchets up the war in Afghanistan calling it the "good" war, which looks like another war that has accomplished not much very sad to say. And now Libya. It just makes no sense to me.

Yes, I think many in both parties are sick of this and disappointed that our government didn't stop these wars a long time ago.

Maybe the answer is for no man or woman to enlist to send Washington a message.

The Israeli Defence Force (IDF) has had urban warfare specialists in Fort Bragg in North Carolina, the home of US special forces, helping train US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations in Iraq, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders. US special forces teams went behind the lines inside Syria attempting to kill foreign jihadists before they crossed the border, and a group focused on the "neutralisation" of guerrilla leaders was set up.

The United States is very much involved in targeted assassinations. If it was any other, these would be called terrorist cells. NATO, who is only trying to protect the democratic loving freedom fighters in Libya and nothing more, has somehow managed to kill a couple of Ghaddafi's sons. Of course, this is purely coincidental. NATO does not target people.

If a village, or a wedding party happens to accidentally get wiped out - well, it was an accident, and we always apologize. It's not our fault anyway, it is because bad guys are all over the place.

Nonetheless, the village hates us, the moms and dads hate us, because we killed their family. So we create enemies.

President Bush determined that clandestine military activities, unlike covert C.I.A. operations, do not need to be depicted in a Congressional Finding, because the President has a constitutional right to command combat forces in the field without congressional interference.

Joint Special Operations Command -- JSOC it's called, is a special wing of our special operations community that is set up independently. It's complicated because the guys doing it are not murderers, and yet they are committing what we would normally call murder. Now, it becomes patriotism.

Then, you have just incidents that occur during warfare. The My Lai massacre, the Apache helicopters shooting journalists like a video game, the Afghan murder squad, Pat Tillman coverup and still mystery. These are the fruits that war produces.

Sadigie - View from a sidewalk superintendent. Why not use drones? Shouldn't the number of troops in a single vehicle (copter or whatever) be limited in order to avoid mass casualties from a single incident? Wasn't there air cover for the troop carrier(s)? Just asking.

Do you want real answers (someone that is here, NE Afghanistan) or bullsh!t like from freedman1 and those that voted for his troll post# 1.101.

Sadigie - View from a sidewalk superintendent. Why not use drones?

The Al Quada, Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Pakistan, etc. use radios (cell phones after a certain company built cell towers, we told them not to), binoculars, magnetic compasses, homemade clinometers, to observe any aircraft (including drones) and warn everyone long before they arrive or to set up ambushes. Same techniques used by the Coast Watchers of WWII.

Sadigie -Shouldn't the number of troops in a single vehicle (copter or whatever) be limited in order to avoid mass casualties from a single incident?

After the previous US Defense Budget Cuts, this resulted in less Helicopters, less maintenance (contracted out after previous RIFs of US Military Personnel that used to perform the maintenance) resulting in less available helicopters. So it is either many in a helicopter, drive a vehicle(s) thru the areas full of IEDs (most roads here have IEDs since their are very few roads especially NE Afghanistan up here in the Mountains (Pamir "Roof of the World" same mountain range as Mount Everest), or walk. President Obama's April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts did not help either as many at US Congress and the Conventional Warfare Generals and Admirals diverted funds to protect their pet projects (US Military Equipment manufactured in their States), this included redirecting training funds, sustainment funds, maintenance funds, etc.. This is why I ended up buying my men and women Roast Duck Dinners for Thanksgiving (2009), Christmas (2009), New Years (2010), Thanksgiving (2010), Christmas (2010), New Years (2011) from the British SAS that were covering our South (they got moved to south western Afghanistan to do the USMC MEU job, that the USMC MEUcould not do) or my men, women would have ended up eating canned ham, powdered mashed potatoes, and canned beans. (that propaganda news footage showing US Military eating turkey dinners at Kandahar AFB, reminds me of the Hitler propaganda news reels showing German soldiers on the Russian Front during the winter having a good old time). Sure you could get your Turkey Dinner if you could just walk away from your mission and make it to a FOB, COB, secure AFB, or Green Zone. If you want to make Afghanistan better for us (US Military) get rid of the expensive US Civilians of President Obama's August 2009 US Civilian Surge that as non combatant require the US Military to protect them and replace them with US Military Personnel that can if necessary be used as combatants "All hands on deck". With these US Civilians attempting to make Afghanistan their own Disneyland Resort and Spa (no US Military nor Afghans allowed unless invited), just like they did at Iraq (cost $1 Billion USDs, not including payroll.). These privilaged US Civilians also demand as their "Rights" Starbucks Coffee (genuine cups flown in too), BurgerKing, Mexican Food, catered banquets, Surf (Lobsters flown in) and Turf (Steak flown in), Booze (illegal at an Islamic Nation), etc. and they run the US Military Dining Facilities and refuse to eat in them or they complain to President Obama, like they did with General McChrystal, with General McChrystal getting his first video conference verbal reprimand from President Obama in front of all of us (now everyone during the next video conference will be looking around the room).

Sadigie - Wasn't there air cover for the troop carrier(s)? Just asking.

What are you going to use for air cover. The US Military does not have any REAL CAS (Close Air Support) aircraft, other than the A-10, or limited numbers of AH-64s (numbers chopped by President Clinton's RIF) as the USAF, USMC, USN fighter jets fly too fast. If you want a lot of "Collateral damage" and "Friendly Fire Incidents" then you can use MQs (Drones), the ONLY reason MQs are accurate is the Boots on the Ground doing terminal guidance.

It is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for us to only use our supporting Helicopters (MH-6s, MH-60s, MH-47s) at Night only. And not everyone has MH-6s to escort MH-47s like we do. Also due to previous US Defense Budget Cuts.

Of consideration is the length of time that the USN SEALs were here, or if they are fresh out of BUD/S to gain "Operational Experience", an indicator would be their ages. You NEVER send someone fresh out of school straight into Combat, you gradually have them gain Operational Experience first in a low intensity low risk environment, then medium risk medium intensity, followed by high risk high intensity, finally actual combat. For US Military Conventional Warfare Forces the length of training is measured in weeks or months (money spent on equipment, the people are considered throw aways), for US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces the training is measured in years or decades (money spent on longterm training and retention, skills).

Does that answer your questions (no sarcasm nor insults intended).

freedman1 - We ran around saying that all day. I bet the Army doesn't have slogans like that anymore. But I don't know.

They don't. If you even do one of the mild "Jodies" your arse is in front of a General or Admiral (all the derogatory expletives used on you that were not in your "Jodie"). I did a "Jodie" on a Naval Installation and the Admiral had no sense of humor (Letter of Reprimand added to my stacks).

theboys - Bush didn't fund his wars, and neither is Obama. Bush was wrong to begin a war in Iraq, but he wasn't wrong to knock out the terrorists camps in Afghanistan.

Iraq did not start with Bush (either of them). Iraq was funded and Legal under US Laws and Congressional Appropriations attached to accomplish those US Laws, 1998 H.R. 4655 and Senate 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution. Bush (43) made the statement "Mission Accomplished" in context to meeting the requirements of US Law, H.R.4655 and the 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution.

As far as Libya read my posts pertain to that Topic.

david - I think your true colors are beginning to show. If somebody says they apologize for misreading you, and offers support - but you refuse that - it's only because you are offended that your lust for killing is not hidden by your proclamations of aid and help.

let there be no misunderstanding David. The two above posts appeared almost at the same time. I am referencing your statement -

Do you want real answers (someone that is here, NE Afghanistan) or bullsh!t like from freedman1 and those that voted for his troll post# 1.101.

And this a full hour after I attempted an apology because of your protests of doing good and promoting harmony.

Why would anyone put U.S. soldiers in an easy target like a helicopter in an area where every other raghead has RPG's? How many soldiers have we lost in downed helicopters? Stupid war--stupid military leaders--stupid president

freedman1

You waste your time with david lotsanumbers. He and he alone determines who is worthy. Viet Nam veterans? Worthless. What do they know?

david? Well, david is into asymmetric warfare. You will read this time and again from this troll. You will read about how "his" men and women virtually worship him. david is a very special guy. He tells you this all the time.

Only david has cognitive skills, yet he is unable to grasp the fact that no one has ever subjugated, tamed, conquered or brought democracy to Afghanistan. He is unable to understand that a foreign intervenor cannot win another nation's civil war. He is unable to grasp the fact that U.S. incursions/invasions are the result, in all too many cases, of outright lies. The Gulf of Tonkin incident in Viet Nam, which never occurred, and the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that were not there are only two examples.

He tears down General Smedley Butler, a two-time Medal of Honor winner as a sellout for his view on the nature of war, but is unable to grasp the fact that General of the Armies and President of the United States, Dwight David Eisenhower warned of an identical threat in his farewell speech - the Military-Industrial Complex.

He tells us he wants to stay in Afghanistan. He can win this hopeless conflict. His moronic superiors simply don't grasp his intellectual prowess and load his jacket with letters of reprimand.

This is the same guy who argued that Afghanistan is a war, even though Congress has never declared war. That argument disappeared after Republicans began questioning the legitimacy of President Obama's decision to go into Libya.

Nope. david gets it. No one else does. We just didn't learn a thing from Viet Nam. I won't even waste my time responding to this self-important twit. It's just a shame that there are others like him.

1. Obama is killed.
2. His body is dumped at sea.
3. His pictures are not released.
4. Most or All witnesses to his death are now gone.
5. I smell fish...

David Walker, thanks, I've kinda figured this out now. I've never had the pleasure of a conversation with him previously, but I'm generally a pretty good judge of people, I have to be, it's my job. Our words always reveal us. He almost fooled me though. He had me going for a moment.

It's sad that people can become so blind. I stick by my original analogy. When he heard it, he recognized the truth in it.

Why waste poor soldiers lives and our tax payers' hard earned monies?

Just carpet bomb Paki and Afghan militant areas like 1991 Iraqi Operation Desert Storm.

Do we need Saudi Arabia's permission on how to conduct war in Afghanistan?

I'm pretty stunned right now. My family wishes those families of the lost loved ones our deepest condolences. They were the best of the U.S. and now they are gone. Most of us couldn't even measure up to the bottom of their bootlace.

War is stupid.

That is all that needs to be said.

freedman, I was in training in 1969 in Georgia, b 2 1 in April-June time frame. Takes me back. 4 months later in vn.

david walker - good post(s.)

NSA: Please reread my post. I stated that the terrorists were trained and harbored in Afghanistan and Pakistan, I made no mention of their nationality. Doubt that Saudi would allow for such camps. Not in plain view. Nor does Saudi Arabia have caves and mountains to hide out in.

Hold the phone folks. The story is now changing. Apparently, now the helicopter did not have members of Seal Team Six who participated in the raid. Does anyone know how many members makes up each team?

I do Ben and I'm sorry I won't tell you, it's the American people who got these guys killed (doesn't matter if they were 6 or not) the fact is all y'all nosey @!$%#ers who think you should be told EVERYTHING you should now know why you shouldn't be.

I understand. Noted.

Ben the rest of my comment wasn't aimed at you directly sorry if I offended you.

come election time i am not goin to vote for anyone already in office. These houses need cleaning.

Are you going to vote for " None of the Above? Why does that seem so familiar to me?

If they are in office now i will not vote to keep them in. They all need to be removed after this fiasco. Thanks pubes, thanks libs, thanks teabaggers.

@ Ben

6 men or so per boat crew.

10-12 boat crews per team? (not 100% sure)

That's close I believe.

Harry Belafonte poster

Day-o, day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day-o, day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home

bomb all night on a drink of rum
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Stack banana till de morning come
Daylight come and me wan' go home

Come, Mister taliban man, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Come, Mister tally man, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home

Lift six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch
Daylight come and me wan' go home

Day, me say day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day, me say day, me say day
Daylight come and me wan' go home

Beautiful bunch of ripe banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Hide the deadly black tarantula
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Lift six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day, me say day, me say day
Daylight come and me wan' go home

Come, Mister taliban man, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Come, Mister tally man, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day-o, day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day, me say day, me say day....ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home

36 american soldiers dead in a single attack........yahoooooo........serves America well for killing countless innocent people in this unjustified war.I smell a soviet union style collapse is looming ever nearer(economy in ruins,troops being ass @!$%#ed)........Again a David killing a Goliath.......May God give victory to the freedom fighters of Afghanistan very soon,Amen.

didn't you mean Mighty BIG @!$%#? The only Goliath to be mentioned here is that filthy,smegma-laiden nut-muncher you call a mouth. Oh Emperor of cock-jockeys, Oh King of cumguzzlers, Oh Duke of Manrape, Oh Prince of poofters, OHHH Earl of asswipes, you are certainly Royalty. By the way, you have just been reported to NSA, CIA and the FBI..... You can be Emperor of Bungmates in Prison you little pus-fuc%.....CENSORSHIP SUCKS!!!!!

AHHHHH my friend (Bob Vommit).......such beautiful compliments.........it is quite obvious that i have made you lose your tiny mind,the way you are barking.......quite entertaining.....keep it up:)

OH MY GOD i'v been reported to some idiots who took 10 years to get rid of OBL...........i'm absolutely terrified,this is my end now..........HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA........

so... just leave?

Without true backing from the Afghan gov't we can accomplish nothing. Karzai is not committed to us. Our number one priority should be taking care of Pakistan's nukes. Then we need to get out of that region. Giving continual training support would be a good idea, but that's all. As a "war" this is an ongoing failure. Do we have ANY victories to point to there? Any at all? We try to fix the infrastructure, the Taliban kill the construction workers, we try to train their soldiers, the Taliban blow up the barracks. Time to retreat and concentrate on fixing our own messes at home.

We need to stop this insane war now. Bring our people home, stop the slaughter. We cannot afford this unwinnable war any longer. To hell with Afgahnistan.

Leave with one caveat: Make it very clear to the Taliban that when they take over again, we will not tolerate any resumption of support for terrorists, and will bomb the crap out of them if they so much as create a whiff of doubt in our minds.

Yeah, I wonder how our government feels about murdering our youth just so they can make/steal a buck. I can probably tell you how they feel, they feel like they are going to make/steal some more money because now they get to order more helicopters......sad, very sad indeed and all for greed.

Repeat the same mistakes and expect a different result.

Your posts are why there should be US Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service (into the US Military Ground Combat Forces (US Army or USMC), not the USAF nor USN as indicated by President Obama's April 2009 US Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN.), since 92% of US Citizens have NEVER Served in the US Military and only 1% are enduring the hardships of US Military Service that the other 92% refuse to do as a US Citizen Civic Duty. Then maybe all of you would be less likely to want to get the US Military involved in anything as it will also be your arse too, and not the other person.

EARN your Rights and Benefits of being a US Citizen. Candidate Obama, "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement", "US Military Service is a Civic Duty" during the 2008 Presidential Debates about reinstating the Selective Service.

We (US Military Training Teams from Germany to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars) were rotated to Pakistan/Afghanistan to train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen (NOT the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban (the Pro USSR Afghans that fled to Fundamentalist Islamic Iran during the USSR 40th Army Occupation, since the USSR did not care which Afghans they massacred, and Definitely not Osama Bin Laden as he was at Saudi Arabia living with his rich parents and starting to plan the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings to gain international recognition for Al Quada, it was SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for us to fingerprint, take photos, document everyone that we trained, as possible future Intelligence Assets). After the US Cut and Ran (we were ordered out), the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban massacred all the US Ally 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen (including their families, friends, relatives, in laws, etc. to prevent future revenge killings) as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. Just after the 9/11 2001 Attacks we were deployed to Afghanistan to disrupt the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government, and then as well as later could not find any of the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen that we trained (in 2009 we were shown the shallow mass graves of the friends and allies we made in combat.). This is the reason that the Afghans do not trust the US, as they believe that the US will Cut and Run again (abandon US Allies to get massacred again as a repeat of History (repeat mistakes and expect different results.).

Just as a comment, to those that say "Mud Huts", "Caves". The "Mud Huts" have very thick walls, as Afghan "Green Tech", remain cool during the +100 degree summers, and require minimal heating during the harsh near arctic winters. Most of the "Caves" are NOT "Caves" they are the mines, tunnels, mine shafts, etc. left over from when they traded with the Egyptian Empire (B.C.); the Afghans occupied these mines, tunnels, during the USSR 40th Army Total Conventional Warfare (Carpet Bombing, massacres of entire villages, millions of area denial weapons (landmines), Chemical Warfare, etc.) as bomb shelters, many did not rebuild their villages, as the water wells were poisoned by the USSR after their villages were destroyed and most of the villagers were massacred. These mines, mineshafts, tunnels remain cool during the summers, and also require minimal heating during the winters, they also have large clean water pools (filtered thru the mountains), also Afghan "Green Tech". After living with them (not on a secure FOB, COB, Air Base, Green Zone, etc.) for years of consecutive tours (to gain their trust, a Tactical and Strategic Goal of US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare) you tend to notice things here (Afghanistan).

Prior to the USSR 40th Army Occupation Afghanistan was a "Little America" of the 1960s to 1970s, with brand new airports, canals, electric street cars (mass transit), highways, etc. After the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban took over, they destroyed everything "Modern", "Western", and non Islamic.

Mr. Obama is working on a new strategy to leave the middle east on the golf course...What a loser of a pres..

Here's a quick exercise for you President Obama haters:

How many current members of Congress served in the Military, and, how many current members of Congress have children, which served in the Military since they started these wars?

Simple enough, right?

WHERE HAVE ALL THE FLOWERS GONE?

"Where have all the flowers gone? Gone to young girls everyone!

Where have all the young girls gone? Taken husbands every one!

Where have all the young men gone? Gone to soldiers every one!

Where have all the soldiers gone? Gone to graveyards every one!

Where have all the graveyards gone? Gone to flowers everyone!

When wll we ever learn? WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?"

Lyrics, Pete Seeger 1955; Joe Hickerson 1960

I always thought that this song was a simple and sad expose' on war. My sorrow and condolences to all the families and friends of those killed in that worthless, dishonorable, and expensive war in Afghanistan.

I believe it's time to leave. That said, Obama and Congress won't vote for that, thus why don't we at least make Afghanistan pay the billion of dollars it costs US taxpayers every week for US troops to stay? Sound logical....

David, A very informative post, thank you. People here seem to think if we pull out the Taliban will go away! Wrong! They will regroup and rebuild their stronghold over Afghanistan and then move on to other countries. They will continue to plan attacks on Americans wherever they may be and on our allies too. They will continue to find ways to also plan attacks on our homeland which not matter how hard we work at protecting our borders they will find a way. Sept 11th is proof of that. I can hear it now in 10 yrs after they have attacked us again people bitching and screaming cause we pulled our troops out of Afghanistan without squashing the taliban. Most people here are clueless as to why we are there and why we need to be there. Evil is everywhere and as a strong nation we need to be there to confront and take down those who wish to destroy all the good in the world.

Norskejente - in my opinion we use bombs, just like we did in Hiroshima. There will NEVER be a way to win or even make progress in these countries. They have fought for centuries and its a way of life to them. WIll innocents die? Sadly, yes. However, we bring our troops home from all over the globe. And then we protect the USA. We need to get our own "house" in order now and quit attempting to be the savior to the world. We are past our prime, and its never going to be a recoverable win.....cut the losses and return home.

"Like George W. Bush's Iraq War, the Afghan conflict appears grinding toward an American defeat. However, President Obama doesn't want the voters to recognize that fact until after Election 2012 – to avoid getting the blame – so he is stretching out the war at the cost of more American lives." Google "Obama Slow-Walks Afghan Defeat"

This is Ramadan too!

How many Muslim Fanatics are thanking Allah for what they will deem as a Revengeful Victory right now.

This conflict could turn into a "War of the Roses" battle with no winners and plenty DEATHS.

Stop this Madness and leave the Middle East..... ASAP!

Here's a quick exercise for you President Obama haters:

How many current members of Congress served in the Military, and, how many current members of Congress have children, which served in the Military since they started these wars?

Simple enough, right?

What's your point? Some served, some didn't. Some have children who have served, some don't. McCain was a POW in Vietnam. Obama never served and couldn't pronounce "corpsman" (pronounced "core man")..... I don't get your point....

These guys volunteered. They served willingly and believed in what they were doing. They deserve our respect and gratitude right now. Plenty of time to bash and second guess after they are buried.

As was more or less stated in post 1.3, there is an economy of war at work. It was Dwight D. Eisenhower that first spoke of it....

Beware the military-industrial complex

Words of caution to the American People, upon leaving the office of President of the United States. That was more than 50-years ago.

Eisenhower's statement has gone unheeded, and left for dead, along with 100's of thousands of war dead. Like the song says...

Where have all the young men gone, long time passing. Where have all the young men gone, long time ago. Where have all the young men gone?

Gone to graveyards every one.

When will we ever learn. When will we ever learn....

These brave men put the hurt on the enemy every day and went out doing just that. Our nation mourns their loss and is grateful for their service and sacrifice. God bless them and their families.

"I believe it's time to leave. That said, Obama and Congress won't vote for that, thus why don't we at least make Afghanistan pay the billion of dollars it costs US taxpayers every week for US troops to stay? Sound logical...."

Because this is a UN WAR, not Afghanistan. But the United Nations should pay for us if we are going to allow them to start using our military for their wars.

Actually, we should not even be there. But "our" (and I do use that word sarcastically) government wants us in the "World Order" (described as "World Economy"). Of course we have to join all those "World Order" groups like the UN, Free Trade, Nafta, etc. That means that (when are fully integrated) We will be under their laws: zoning of the US will be up to them. who is allowed education up to them. US Water rights up to them. Individuals allowed guns is also up to them and they do NOT allow that. What businesses will be here is up to them. What is allowed to fester in our lands, our waters is also up to them (if they decide to make us the radiation dumping ground for the world, and they do NOT take care since they do not hold human life in very high regard).

Have anyone one of you even read what they are getting us into? I have. I can tell you it takes 100% of the nations involved to decide what laws will be used. The United States is Unique in our Constitution, our laws, our rights in this world, in this worlds history (only 3 have been similar and none in the last 500 plus years)

IS letting things go until they effect you that important to you that you will allow those in charge to sell out our country? Because when it is that bad the UN will bring in world troops, as they do now (ours) to quell "uprisings" here in the US.

Fire them now! Prosecute them! Save our Constitution, our Nation, our freedoms

As a Vietnam Veteran, remember Vietnam? All the suffering, death, destruction, ruined lives, for what, so Nike could build a shoe factory there? Some farm grown seafood comes from there, who would want to eat it, recycled poo (I have pooped in a rice paddy myself, thank you.) What will this (Not a War) mean 50 years from now when, whoever still lives here will still be paying for it. Unless Congress has the courage to declare War, there is no War. We are paying for Non-Wars, tell me why?

Troops are starting to come home as Obama promised, did you people miss something, In Iowa we have had several units come home it takes time, but because of the GOP jobs kill bills, there is no employment.

They are trying to start something for the Troops coming home for employment, but they also have to readjust.

To the Person who put the Asian link, they are PURE propaganda.

Thanks for you service, Jensen; Desert Storm veteran here. I protested the wars all the way back to Nam. But a bunch of flag-waving dumphuck renecks thought they were going to deafeat terrorism, bring democracy, defend our freedoms and a bunch of other sappy things that are just an illusion. The irony is these service members who go killed would've returned to find many of their veteran benefits gone. So much for supporting the troops.

"How many Muslim Fanatics are thanking Allah for what they will deem as a Revengeful Victory right now." Cathee 3.15

The same amount as Christians boasting blowing up ragheads.

Zerox, you have no clue who the enemy is; much less know that "these brave men" put the hurt on anyone. Yours is nothing but conjecture.

Scram:

Thank you for the lyrics re: this song=-Yes, "Where Have All the Flowers Gone"?

For those who have never heard of Pete Seeger's message, it is a must.

Sometimes, though War is absolutely necessary to keep America's Freedoms; of which all of us are using now. Freedom of Speech.

Where Have All the Flowers Gone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2SIIeqy34

moshuluu - Here's a quick exercise for you President Obama haters:

LOL. You cannot have it both ways.

President Obama IS the Commander In Chief of the US Military, not anyone else.

You cannot go running around claiming that President Obama got Osama Bin Laden, then say that he is NOT CURRENTLY RESPONSIBLE for Afghanistan (his increased focus away from Iraq and increased focus on Afghanistan).

PenRules - Norskejente - in my opinion we use bombs, just like we did in Hiroshima.

I explained this before, the Pamir (2/3rds of Afganistan is mountains) is full of former mines, tunnels, mineshafts, etc. that stretch for thousands of miles, going all the way back to when they were trading minerals, jewels, etc. with the Egyptian Empire (B.C.). It was us (my men, women) that went spelunking into these and found the lithium deposits, a year later reported by the News Media. These mines, tunnels, mineshafts, etc. are currently used by the Afghans that never rebuilt their villages after the USSR 40th Army leveled their villages and massacred most of them, and poisoned the water wells. These are Natural bomb shelters that withstood the carpet bombing of the USSR 40th Army Occupation's Total War, that had more aircraft and bombs than the US currently has, and yes, they would withstand multiple nuclear bomb strikes. Also most of the "Tactical" US Nuclear Weapons were destroyed (including designs, and manufacturing processes) during the INF Treaty, SALT, START, meaning you are going to use some really large yield nuclear weapons and piss off the Chinese (currently mining the mineral wealth, since the Afghan believe that the US will Cut and Run again, so they gave the contracts and licenses to the Chinese. Similar to how the Chinese and Russian Federation got all the Contracts and Licenses for the Iraqis Oil, King of Saudi Arabia, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran on a Golden Platter", 2010.), this made the Libyan Oil of Strategic Importance to the US European Allies;

however since "the Rebels" are the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) allied to and supported by Iran and Qatar is also an Iranian ally, Qatar sold the "Rebel" Oil to the Chinese and not the Europeans (once again the US and US Allies get everything all wrong, Gaddaffi was a Collaborator to the US and US Allies to get the Bush Sanctions and Embargoes lifted so that he could sell Libyan Oil to the US Ally Europeans, this made him a Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, that according to current Islamic Laws must "Die a Horrible Murdering" (reason the Arab League of Nations demanded US and NATO Military Actions). Gaddaffi's biggest mistake was declaring Libyan Oil Nationalization that would take away control of the Libyan Oil from the Rich European Oil Corporations, with these Oil Corporations Lobbying their Politicians to Overthrow Gaddaffi, to stop Gaddaffi's Libyan Oil Nationalization, so in anticipation of European Military Actions, the European Oil Corporations started evacuating their personnel in February 2011 prior to the European Military Actions. Al Jazeera (not the English, but the Arabic) start to praise the Al Quada (AQ), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb(AQIM), Hezbollah, for going to Libya prior to the Insurrection to help the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) Overthrow Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers.

Most of these groups still blame the Europeans for the Crusades centuries later (before they or any of us were even born) as to why they attack anything witha "Crusader's Cross" (Red Cross)(we previously told the Red Cross to paint over everything with Red Crescents, the doctors and nurses that got anal raped (men and women)(form of subjugation and humiliation for Islam) then shot in the head, just southwest of us. We know because their driver and translator were released minus a few fingers (First warning for being a Collaborator) of their right hand (if you do not know what that means, right hand for feeding self, left hand for wiping arse, that is why you NEVER shake hands with your left hand (I do not give a f**k if you are left handed) and never reach into the shared bowl of food with your left hand (and "Westerners" "Foreigners" wonder why they a say sh!t like "All Westerners have AIDS"). Their vehicle had a Red Crosses on the doors.).

Knine - "I believe it's time to leave. That said, Obama and Congress won't vote for that, thus why don't we at least make Afghanistan pay the billion of dollars it costs US taxpayers every week for US troops to stay? Sound logical...." Because this is a UN WAR, not Afghanistan. But the United Nations should pay for us if we are going to allow them to start using our military for their wars.

Ah, that would make us (US Military) no better than the "Mercenaries" (Foreign Security Contractors, US Security Contractors, etc.) that you complain about. You cannot have it both ways.

The solutions would be to Unionize the US Military so that we have a "Fair and Living Wage" (numbers of lower ranks living off of public assistance) and a cohesive bunch of Lobbyists and Special Interests that US Politicians would fear or not get money to be elected or reelected. And Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service (Ground Combat Forces) with no exemptions or deferments (like many other Nations) for anyone (including the US Politicians), so that everyone will have second thoughts about getting into anything involving the US Military, as it will not be someone else that has to do the fighting. The US getting out of the United Nations, no more pay to be a UN Member, no more being used as the UN Military for UN Missions obeying UN Rules. Amend the WWII Terms of Unconditional Surrender and Status of Forces Agreements, that limit the sizes of their Militarises, so that we can close US Military Installations at Japan, Germany, Italy, etc. and let them defend themselves and their interests, so that the US Military can leave NATO. Realize the Longterm consequences of these actions.

Jensen-576947,

I previously told you how the US got sucked into French Indochina (Vietnam) at the end of World War II by the League of Nations (aka United Nations). US, Canadians, Austrailians to hold French Indochina until the French could reoccupy their colony after the Japanese left. US involvement again supporting the French with tanks, aircraft, weapons during Dien Bien Phu. US Escalation. US Congress passing the 1973 War Powers Resolution to limit the Presidential Powers to prevent another Vietnam. My arse getting a Selective Service Card and ending up at as a LRRP/Ranger at Plei Can calling in airstrikes so that the rest of the US Military could retrograde (by slowing the VC, NVA advance on the Ho Chi Minh Trail) from Vietnam (we had that feeling like when you are a young child in a large department store and lost believing that your parents will never find you. We thought that the helicopters would not come and pick us up (loss of a dozen LRRPs or loss of a couple of helicopters and crews, dawned on us after we got off the helicopters at Plei Can that someone might consider us expendable and not worth the risk of extraction), or that we would be shot down and burn to death if they did pick us up (we had seen the results, helicopters shot down dropping us off on other missions (crews burned alive)). End of Vietnam "Conflict". In a short Vietnam was all about the World's Natural Rubber Resources (the French Rubber Tree Plantations) and the north wanting to take them (we were subject to Court Martial if we fired at the VC, NVA hiding at the edges of the French Rubber Tree Plantations, and would create an International Incident if we damaged one, and the VC, NVA knew that and used it to their advantage. The former French Foreign Legionaires hired by the Plantation owners would watch us and report us if we came into the Plantation or damaged any rubber trees, they knew they were too weak to fight the VC, NVA and did nothing against them, so the VC and NVA left them alone also.).

MJL-3,

Perhaps if you got that Demoncrap out of your eyes, then you can do the Real Research as to why there are no jobs in the US.

1. The Free Trade Agreements and Amendments, NOT Fair Trade. Most Favored Trade Nation Status for China.

2. Over 23 Million Illegal Aliens taking the "low pay, no benefits, entry level, McJobs" from the Teenagers of US Citizens, Unemployment this category is 42%, with the Teenagers then trying to get those other jobs that are normally occupied by the Adults. And the Illegal Aliens are currently taking the jobs of the US Labor Union Contruction Workers. All this is causing the current 28% Unemployment (all categories, including those that no longer receive unemployment or stopped looking for nonexistant jobs). The Great Depression was 25% Unemployment.

3. Removal of the Glass Steagall Acts.

4. The previous President Obama Actions (not words) caused US Employers to have uncertainity as to the cost now and in the future of each employee (Businesses are Run to make Profits, not as your welfare check). So they are not hiring, that is why I told my Business Manager by email not to hire the fifty people needed to open another branch of my Business at another State. Your "Tax the Rich" not realizing that some of the "Rich" do not have liquid assets, and all their "Rich" is their fixed assets of their Business and the most is spent on the Employees payroll and benefits. So sure keep taxing my business 35%, not including local, city, state taxes and licenses and see what happens. I did not see all of YOU lining up to risk YOUR money to start my Business. ALL THE F**KING "TAX CREDITS IN THE WORLD MEAN NOTHING IF THE BUSINESS IS CLOSED RESULTING IN ALL THE EMPLOYEES BEING LAID OFF.

"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump.

La maripoza - The irony is these service members who go killed would've returned to find many of their veteran benefits gone. So much for supporting the troops.

During Secretary of Defense Gates last visit here (Afghanistan) he told us that President Obama has decided to RIF 27,000 US Military Personnel and decrease all US Military Benefits. (Someone in the crowd raised their hand and asked if we will be paying to get Medical Treatments here for bullet wounds and getting blown up by IEDs, and will his family stateside will no longer get food stamps, the MPs escorted him away, not reported by news media). You can see this (the RIF and decreased Benefits, not what the E-4 asked) in Publications, Federal Times, Army Times, Air Force Times, USMC Times, Navy Times, and the publications of the various US Military Associations.

I previously posted that the 27,000 US Military are supported by xxx,xxx US Civilians, with these US Civilians no longer needed resulting in their becoming Unemployed (kicked to the curb) also.

Hawaii2,

The first time I came back from here (Afghanistan) after years of consecutive tours on a flight carrying the flag drapped metal coffins.

When A Soldier Makes It Home

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDAl7lGGtSo

When we (US Military Training Teams from Germany) were sent to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars and later rotated to Afghanistan to train the 1980s Pro US Aghan Muhajeen. note: back then we knew that women only deal with women at Islamic Nations, so we had women on the Teams (most of us believed that they were from SAD). One of my O-2s (female) got shot by a by a USSR Spetsnaz Hunter Killer Sniper (we neutralized him). She spent months at LARMC Germany collapsed lung and broken ribs. Years later that she became my Operations Officer.

Eric Burdon - The Animals - We Gotta Get Out Of This Place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNEiZhpinY&feature=related

When I was with the US Military Strategic and Tactical Nuclear Weapons Forces (all of you do not realize how many times we came very close).

Eve of Destruction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_TtUb7z1pQ&feature=related

When I was assigned to SHAPE Beligium Wartime Nuclear Operations Cell. Consideration to use "Enhanced Nuclear Weapons" (aka Neutron Bombs).

The Pointer Sisters "Neutron Dance"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhcjRoU0C7g

After my LRRP Assistant Patrol Leader got almost cut in half (close range AK-47 that almost got me, yes , he was dead before he hit the ground). We carried him out wrapped in his poncho, it took us two days. We did not call in a helicopter that would have compromised our location and we would get swarmed (what I was thinking back then).

Los Lonely Boys "Heaven"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xybmh_En4&feature=related

When I was getting on the plane at Travis AFB (to Vietnam, 18 years young).

Country Joe McDonald - "Feel Like I'm Fixing To Die"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBdeCxJmcAo

There is more about current Afghanistan (Videos that I took/take) and previous Iraq that I made set to music but youtube keeps deleting them for music copyright infringement.

What a tragedy. My heart goes out to the families of these heroes. Shame on all of you for saying otherwise.

David,

U need a life.

David:

Thank you for your long time service in the Military--we have had quite a time, getting Americans to finally appreciate our Soldiers--you are all Heroes--

My neighbor was deployed to Afghanistan, a Major; training Afghan soldiers to fight the dirty fight; some of them fled; did not want to actually fight---he came back with a completely different personality--maybe PSTD--he did not like leaving his buddies behind. It was quite a time for the entire block--we bonded together during his deployment--all putting out flags for his safe return.

Thank you for all the websites---I will look at them now.

It takes a very special person to be able to do your job--

Thank you so much for writing to me!

Wayne:

What is your problem? Envious?

wayne-3333 - David, U need a life.

I live to bring the men and women of my Command home alive. Your sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces, in laws, neighbors, etc. of my Command are the Family I never had.

When I hold my Promotion Boards, I always ask the Question: "Which is more important, the Mission or the Men and Women?""And why?"

I know to most vets that a story like this usually brings tears to your eyes, I know it does mine. even though we all knew something like this could happen when we raised our hand and took that oath. we served under the flag and someday it will drape our coffins. I want to enclose something, that I hope you will take the time to read. It is the real meaning of a flag draped coffin, which many probabally do not know, or only thought they did.

I hope you take the time to read this.... To understand what the flag draped coffin really means..... Here is how to understand the flag that lay upon it and is surrendered to so many widows and widowers.

Do you know that at military funerals, the 21-gun salute stands for the sum of the numbers in the year 1776?

Have you ever noticed the honor guard pays meticulous attention to correctly folding the United States of America Flag 13 times? You probably thought it was to symbolize the original 13 colonies, but we learn something new every day!

The 1st fold of the flag is a symbol of life.

The 2nd fold is a symbol of the belief in eternal life.

The 3rd fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veterans departing the ranks who gave a portion of their lives for the defense of the country to attain peace throughout the world.

The 4th fold represents the weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in time of war for His divine guidance.

The 5th fold is a tribute to the country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, "Our Country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong."

The 6th fold is for where people's hearts lie. It is with their heart that they pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

The 7th fold is a tribute to its Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that they protect their country and their flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of their republic.

The 8th fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day.

The 9th fold is a tribute to womanhood, and Mothers. For it has been through their faith, their love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great has been molded.

The 10th fold is a tribute to the father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of their country since they were first born.

The 11th fold represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon and glorifies in the Hebrews eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The 12th fold represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in the Christian's eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.

The 13th fold, or when the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost reminding them of their nation’s motto, "In God We Trust."

After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington, and the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for them the rights, privileges and freedoms they enjoy today.

There are some traditions and ways of doing things that have deep meaning. In the future, you'll see flags folded and now you will know why. Share this with the children you love and all others who love what is referred to, the symbol of “Liberty and Freedom."

TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES IN THESE TWO WARS AND THE ONES BEFORE. YOUR WATCH IS OVER BROTHER, TAPS HAS SOUNDED, IT'S TIME TO R.I.P

@james-i didn't know that about the flag. that was beautiful.

David Walker...I got your post...I think people aren't reading it so carefully because they are really pissed.

We should all remember our men and women who fought in all the wars...from the Revolutionary right up to now.

Reading this story is heartbreaking...and makes us all angry. I want them all to come home, just like you all do.

I am very thankful for what they have all done and are still doing for us. But the ones that are still out there, NEVER stop supporting them.

To the friends and families of these who have fallen, I am so sorry...

James, thanks for posting the significance of the folding of the flag; it is one of several versions. As for the "21 gun salute." there is no such thing at military funerals. At funeral the fire what is known as volleys (3). The 21 gun salute is reserved for ships being recognized as not hostile.

Thank you for your post just the same.

Retired veteran of Desert Storm - Color guard commander.

So where are all the anti-war protesters??? Do they really only come out when a Republican is in office? Do they genuinely care about the troops in combat overseas or are they just making a political statement? I guess we will see more of them when Obama is finally kicked out of the Presidency in 2012...

JamesD - Do not believe everything you run across on the internet. The 21 gun salute does not have a thing to do with 1776.

http://www.snopes.com/military/21gun.asp

The flag folding thing is false as well.

http://www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.asp

There is nothing wrong with feeling teary-eyed. But be careful of those who can make your feelings well up so they can take advantage of them and of you. Truth always trumps any type of fiction.

There are also the three spent cartridges placed into the fold of the flag.

I have attended too many of these, as the only times that I have come back Stateside. I know that I do not have to take leave to attend the memorial services, I feel it is my Duty and Responsibility for anyone in my Command.

Many times afterwards, I tell the families, if they need anything call me and hand them my business card. They beg me to bring back their son or daughter. That is when this grown man cries, as I believe it is my personal mission to bring my Command home alive.

@freedman1 I will give you the 1776 for the 21 gun salute and as a retired navy man I should have known better. say what you want on the meaning of the folding of the flag, and snopes can say what they want as well. but I know it was recited at the flag folding ceremony at my retirement, in 1990, and had been recited at most every retirement ceremony I have attended

Jesse G-341147''My question too is why are we still in this almost 10 year war ?'' No one can really answer that question that I can tell? I will say this and anyone that is familiar with my posts knows I am very much a conservative and a critic of Obama, if he will do an about face on Afghanistan and the whole area I will do an about face and whole heartedly Vote OBAMA in 2012! If not there is no damn way he will get my vote and if the republican is pro war it will be HELL NO and I will write in Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich. Enough of this nonsenense it is dragging this great country to ruin.

Hell I would even vote for Cindy Sheehan. Maybe?

Listen the one that convinces me this will end will get my vote period. So far Obama has escalated in afghanistan. The only republican that I am convinced will end it is Ron Paul.

10 years..... almost 1700 dead, many more maimed, 1 trillion dollars, credit rating lowered..... to fight to tie with a bunch of donkey riders in one of the poorest countries in the world?

Does the US military represent the US people or just the US military?

Hey Angry American, What makes you think this is not our war? This is not about country verses country but about good verses evil. The taliban consist of very evil people who wish only to bring hell to good people. If we pull out we are saying to the taliban you win and it will give them time to grow strong again and attack not just others but us here and everywhere. Seems to me that those who wish to bring our troops home again care nothing about giving the taliban the ability to kill more innocent people. I can see it now the taliban celebrating their win by seeing American troops raise the white flag in surrender and going home with their tails between their legs. Papers in Europe will have a field day..... The taliban has won the war against the biggest country in the world!!!!

Wasted days and wasted lives!

When will America wake up to the fact that the reason the US is broke and headed to bankruptcy is the US Military Industrial Complex, the US War Machine, and the fact the "fear mongers" keep selling "they" are going to get us!

Why are we in the US fighting a Presidential Police Engagement and not fighting to win?

Whoever heard of a "war" where we are not allowed to use all our weapons to win!

The US should just go in and make sand piles out of Afghanistan and Iraq and then build what we want or get out!

America is just plain brainwashed! Fighting to be fighting so the Military Industrial Complex (the number one user of oil in the world) can stay wealthy!

@MtMike: To answer your second question first...Viet Nam. As to why we're in Afghanistan (your first question): because we didn't learn anything from the disaster that was Viet Nam!

As a vet, I'm appalled that we would even consider engaging our troops without the clear intent and will to completely destroy the enemy we're up against. If you don't intend to win, you shouldn't be in the fight!

Angry Amer, you are one counfused puppy; bet you are a white christian.

Norskejente you are as ignorant as Angry; the president can't do anything without congress (they approve the bucks for DOD) and othe warmongers who support the military complex. As for figthing the Taliban, you have no clue (again) as to why we are there.

I love the ignorance, are you Prepared to tell all the mothers and Daughters and Fathers and brother to fin bad your Family has to die for our beliefs,or lets not forget the fact it is costing us money we do not have to keep the war going anyway! so guy's if you want to play war go in the backyard and have at it otherwise STFU and Don't talk nonesense wake up

Jesse G-341147,

The politically correct reason we are here (Afghanistan) and Iraq is because United Nations Mission, Nation Building.

bill s-374237 - Does the US military represent the US people or just the US military?

The US Military Officer's Oath of Office, and the US Congressional US Military Officer's Commissioning Certificate, make the US Military Officers the Representatives of the silent US Citizens of the US Military; and also as the Representative of the US Citizens on the Battlefield.

This is why President Obama had to make deals with General McKiernan and General McChrystal for going Public as their last appeal after the US Politicians refuse to listen, that will result in unnecessary deaths within their Command (Responsible and Accountable).

This was NOT "Insubordination" per the UCMJ.

In order to fire General McKiernan for going Public that he did not have enough US Military to accomplish his War Plans to Win Afghanistan, President Obama would have had to have a Congressional Hearing. So he made the deal, took General McKiernan's War Plans to Win Afghanistan and called them the Obama War Plans to Win Afghanistan, not realizing since he did not have any US Military Training nor experience that General McKiernan's War Plans to Win Afghanistan did not have General McKiernan's Commander's Intent making the War Plan completely useless to President Obama.

After General McChrystal replaced General McKiernan, President Obama's Political Appointees changed the Rules of Engagement by negotiating with President Karzai, without US Military Input, resulting in the ROE becoming Cannot Shoot until Shot, so the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. shoot at the US Military with the biggest things first like RPGs, Anti Tank Rifles, etc. so that the US Military cannot shoot back because they are dead. This started General McChrystal to believe "This administration does not know what it is doing".

After President Obama's August 2009 US Civilian Surge the US Civilians believe it is their Right to have Starbucks, BurgerKing, Taco Places, Booze, Surf and Turf, catered banquets, etc., this puts a Logistics strain on the US Military, so General McChrystal chooses Bullets for the US Military instead of Buns (and hamburger patties) for BurgerKing. The US Civilians complain to President Obama, General McChrystal receives his first verbal reprimand.

The Lawyers sent here during President Obama's US Civilian Surge start to prosecute (not defend) US Military Servicemembers under the Four Legal Authorities Over the US Military: UN Rules, Local Islamic Laws, US Civil Laws, UCMJ, there is no such thing as "Double Jeopardy". These Lawyers attempt to prosecute the Deutsche Bundeswehr Commandoes for their calling in an Airstrike against a fuel tanker hijacked by the Taliban. These Lawyers create an International Incident by doing so, and make themselves and President Obama who sent them here look stup!d.

The US Civilian Guards of Wackenhut, guarding the US Embassy, and the responsibility of President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke, are caught and seen by the Afghans dancing around drunk and naked. Unlike the US Military being turned over to the Afghans for punishment under local Laws, they are sent out of Afghanistan by Diplomatic channels with no prosecution. This provide to the neutral dirt poor Afghans that the "Foreigners" are corrupt just like the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. said they are (do not obey the Afghan Laws).

President Karzai, requests that General McChrystal investigate President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke spending Billions of USDs and nothing being done nor built. President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke find out they are being investigated and start screaming to the International News Media "Karzai Corrupt", this gives the Taliban, Al Quada, etc. the Strategic Asymmetric Warfare Goals of: a. undermining the US Ally's Government., b. decreased local support and increased local support of the Al Quada, Taliban, etc. Cause., c. decreased National support of Karzai., d. decreased International support of Karzai., e. defeats the US National Will to continue the fight., f. there is more.

President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke create a US Civilian Chain of Command. This is a violation of basic US Military practice of "Unity of Command". The US Military become fearful of the US Civilians. General McChrystal is required to have President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry's and Holbrooke's US Civilians on his "High Level Staff". These US Civilians are overheard while partying at Paris France (you think we (US Military) can leave anytime we want, they can.) by Rolling Stone, stating, "This Administration does not know what it is doing". General McChrystal is confronted by President Obama, and takes full Responsibility for his Command. President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke demand that General McChrystal be fired, against the recommendations of Secretary of Defense Gates.

President Obama makes a deal with General McChrystal to retire as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General if he will tender his Letter of Resignation, instead of having a Congressional Hearing that will embarrass President Obama as all the "This Administration does not know what it is doing" would be made Public Knowledge.

General McChrystal leaves and is replaced by General Petraeus. President Karzai requests that General Petraeus investigate President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke. General Petraeus gives his Investigation Report to President Karzai, the next day President Karzai demands that All Aid Organizations (managed by President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke, the US Military and President Karzai have no access to the Billions) account for every cent or leave HIS Country. President Obama's Political Appointee Eikenberry turns in his Letter of Resignation to President Obama. President Obama's Political Appointee Holbrooke dies on the operating table after stressing his heart.

From this you can see that some of us (US Military Officers) do Represent the US Citizens.

There is however, the Fact, that the US Congress does not "like" Generals like General McChrystal (US Military Asymmetric Warfare), US Army Special Forces, US Army Ranger, Successful Commander Joint Special Operations Task Force Iraq (Rescue of Jessica Lynch, located and apprehended President Hussein) was Righthand man to General Petraeus, Successful Commander Joint Special Operations Command, etc..

Why. Because US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces depend on the long term training and retention of skill, and US Military Conventional Warfare relies on the expensive US Military Equipment manufactured in those Congressional Representatives States (US Civilian Jobs). This makes the US Military Conventional Warfare Officers the favorites of the US Congress and the Officers of the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces are considered as "Renegades", "Off the Reservation", etc. with most not realizing the the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces Trained Up from the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces. example: President Obama's 24/7 US Military Advisor, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mullen, USN Conventional (Cold War Era) Surface Warfare only, no training nor experience in Ground Combat. Ground Combat is NOT something that you can learn about from books or second hand from advisers. The training is only so that you can survive long enough to gain experience. All of you can argue all you want, that is just what I have seen and experienced (as to why I will be so glad that in two years most of my men, women, and myself can no longer be recalled again for "Matters of National Security" as we will be "Too Old". And we will no longer have to deal with any of this Political bullsh!t, that is getting us killed. It will be someone elses turn.

Very True.

US is spending 6 times as much? But China is building up their military power and doesn't have to pay large salaries for its military and has cheap labor for manufacturing of military equipment . So the 6 times is a lot closer number.

What large salaries are you talking about? Do you really know what the military makes for pay? Considering your dumbass coment about large salaries I assume you don't....

DBllini: You obviously have no idea what military families receive for compensation, not to mention what they endure. Pick up a weapon and stand a post or close your piehole!

Military spending is a necessity, regardless of what you may think/feel. Troops are needed and they need to be provided for with equipment and facilities. Can anyone really put a price on freedom? NO! FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!

Yes our troops are paid very little for their contribution.

The executives, contractors and private corporations are making a killing though.

In the end the questions are - "Are we making a positive difference in the lives of the people there and the people here? Are we spreading freedom or just changing one group of corrupt leaders for another?"

Come on people, relative to what Chinese troops make, ours are very well compensated. He wasn't saying we pay our troops too much! But that costs for what China pays compared to what we pay makes the 6 times more comparison misleading. China owns the means of production, so what we pay for a fighter jet is many times what China pays for a comperable plane. And they are getting much closer to us in quality.

But we are stretched very, very thin. It's time to bring our forces home from around the world. We could use them on the southern border.

sinfree,

Chinese Cost Of Living versus US Cost Of Living. Every Chinese cent (chinese currency) is worth a cent and the US cent (penny) is worth what? Also there is the fact that the Chinese still take people out and execute them, when was the last time the US took a US Contractor out and executed them for Fraud.

cele2000 - But we are stretched very, very thin. It's time to bring our forces home from around the world. We could use them on the southern border.

It is Illegal to use Federal Active US Military within the US. This is why President Obama previously directed Secretary of Defense Gates to tell us during his last visit here (Afghanistan) that there will be a Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military, throwing 27,000 US Military Personnel on Unemployment and xxx, xxx US Civilians that provide direct support to the 27, 000 US Military Personnel on Unemployment also, equals x27, 000 on Unemployment. Since these US Citizens no longer have an income the other areas that will be affected (more Unemployment) are: Fast Food, Transportation (people), Car Dealerships, Theaters, Cell phone service, Cable TV and Satellite TV Providers, Real Estate, Restaurants, etc.. And Less Local, City, State Revenues, layoffs of teachers, layoffs of law enforcement, layoffs of Firefighters, layoffs of local government workers, etc.. Less US Military Equipment, Food, Water, etc. needed, meaning layoffs in US Manufacturing (weapons, vehicles, medical supplies, maintenance (repair parts), etc.), layoffs in US Raw Materials Processing, layoffs in Farming (food), layoffs in Food Processing, layoffs in Distribution, layoffs in Transportation (Food, Materials, etc.), etc..

Are you getting the picture.

You can believe that my men, women and myself want to get the f**k out of here (Afghanistan) after years of consecutive tours. I want to eat BBQ Roast Pork washed down by a bunch of German Beers and then get laid, all Illegal at Islamic Nations.

You want the US to not get into anymore of these, that would require the US to get out of the United Nations, as Iraq and Afghanistan are UN Missions, Nation Building.

You want to close the US Military Bases worldwide, then you would have to change the WWII Unconditional Surrender Terms that limit the sizes of their Military Forces, as well as changing the Status of Forces Agreements for those Nations that have US Military Bases that were not the Axis Powers during WWII.

Once again the 92% of the US Citizens that have NEVER Served in the US Military have the most to say (uninformed, uneducated, non factual, emotive opinions) and refuse to share the hardships of the 1% of US Citizens currently Serving in the US Military. That is why we (US Military) are stretched very thin. That is why I strongly believe that the US must have Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service into the US Military Ground Combat Forces (US Army or USMC) and not the USAF nor USN as reflected by President Obama's April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN. Then all of you would NOT want the US Military to get involved in anything nor volunteered into UN Missions. Because it would NOT be the other guys and gals, it would be YOU.

This is all disconcerting and the truth is the truth. The US military is now involved in three battle grounds. This is beginning to look like WWIII during the current times. Russia was to join ISAF forces at this time, where are they?

annge68 - Russia was to join ISAF forces at this time, where are they?

They will NOT join the ISAF. The Russians have been the Ally of Iran since WWII. When they were the USSR they were supplying Fundamentalist Islamic Iran with weapons, military equipment, advisors, trainers, ammuntion, etc. during the Iran Iraq Wars.

Currently, the Russian Federaton and the Chinese are supplying Fundamentalist Islamic Iran with weapons, technology, military equipment, ammunition, traners, advisors, etc., with Fundamentalist Islamic Iran providing these weapons to the International Al Quada Franchise (AQ, AQY, AQS, AQI, AQAP, AQIM, AQ Somalia, AQA (Afghanistan), AQP, etc.), Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG aka "the Libyan Rebels"), Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Army of Islam Pakistan (not the Pakistanis Military), Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Gaza, Hezbollah, (Party of Allah, Palestine, Lebanon, Gaza, Libya, South and Central Americas, etc.), Hamas Foreign Fighters (Palestine, Libya, Gaza, South and Central Americas, maybe Mexico, etc.), Islamic Chechen Foreign Fighters, Muslim Brotherhood (Alexandria Egypt), Kongra Gel/Kurdistan Worker's Party (KGK/PKK), Jemaah Islamiya (JI), Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), Fatah al-Islam (FAI), Ansar al-Islam (AI), Ansar al-Sunna (AS), Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS), Al-Shabaab, Ansar al-Islam (AAI), Asbat al-Ansar, Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group), Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B), Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM), Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban of Afghanistan, Islamic Jihad Union (IJU), Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed), Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI), Kata'ib Hezbollah (KH), Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous), Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ), Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM), Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK), Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC), Harakat-ul Jihad Islami (HUJI), Jundallah, etc.

The reason is that the Strategic Goal of the Chinese and Russian Federation is to get the US out of their Backyards, the Resources of the Middle East, Asia, Africa, etc.. With the US and US Allies becoming Fourth World Nations like Somalia, Darfur, etc..

To date this is succeeding as to why the Allies of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, China and Russia have gotten, 2010, the Iraqis Northern and Southern Oil Field Contracts. This is due to the fact that the US did not understand that, the Kurdistanis have been the armed allies of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran since the Iran Iraq Wars, and the US gave the Kurdistanis the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields; the millions of Shiites, a generation ago fled the massive Unemployment of Iran thru Basra after the Fall of the Shah of Iran, and became Illegal Aliens at Iraq becoming the cheap labor for the Southern Iraqis Oil Fields and demanding Iraqis Citizens Rights. The US gave the Shiites southern Iraq including the Iraqis Southern Oil Fields.

This is why the King of Saudi Arabia stated, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran on a Golden Platter".

So from the 1980s till 2003, my men women and myself wasted our lives while at Iraq. And we are wasting it here at Afghanistan since the US will repeat History again, by Cutting And Running again (our involvement with Afghanistan during the 1980s also, by rotating between Iraq and Afghanistan)).

Is all of that clear now.

Sinfree- If only you had told George W. Bush/Dick Cheney that. I am pretty sure all the Tea/Publicans would have been cheering John McCain sending MORE TROOPS, MORE PREDATORS, while at the same time, CUTTING TAXES, CUTTING MEDICARE, and all those other things that Republicans love to CUT. After all, if they brought home ALL the RESERVES and GUARDSMAN who are over there, could you imagine the UNEMPLOYMENT RATE?

david-475776 The Russians have been the ally of Iran since WWII? I believe the Soviets and the UK invaded Iran during WWII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran, I also believe the US supported Iran's Shah from the 1950's to his fall in 1979 during the Islamic revolution.

If we and NATO were not moving Eastwards close to the Russian borders, maybe Russia wouldn't supply Iran with weapons and technology, nevertheless, they haven't sold Iran the S-300 anti-aircraft missiles as part of their support for UN sanctions against his "ally".

It is also stupid to even think that Russia and China support Islamic radicals, since they both are engaged in fighting those elements in the Caucasus (Russia) and the northwest provinces of Xinjiang, Gansu, and Ningxia (China).

You think you know everything, but you obviously don't, which also applies to the way our government starts wars against countries that can't understand.

A simplistic and erroneous view of both military spending and the overall budget. The money spent on the operations in Iraq and AAfghanistan account for about 6% of our overall spending. a small price to pay to deal with these terrorist organization on their soil and not ours.

When compared to the trillions of dollars wasted of Obama's Stimulis pay-offs which created no jobs and in turn no new revenue for the government, the money spent on the war shouldn't be questioned. The military, and the security of the nation is a vital roll, where Obama's politicaly driven expansion of spending and government is not.

At the heart of your post is a dislike of the military, not a true concern for those who lost their lives. Your more concerned about what you could do with that money than the sacrifice of American lives. It's sickening to watch the moronic left use the death of brave servicemen and woman as an excuse to perpetuated their own political and social ideology. Yes we all know military spending is evil. Maybe we could all go to your house, hold hands, and sing "We Are the World"

Your right! We the people need to take our country back.. We vote them in and we can vote them out. We the people have forgotten what our forefather's

did to get this country and what they died for! Now it's all about the money, shame on us for allowing it. Have we all forgotten our rights? It's the law, "WE

THE PEOPLE" and 1 more thing that has nothing to do with this. Our laws were

put into place to get the innocent off and not be railroaded. Not to get the

guilty off by having the money to pay a lawyer big bucks or a lawyer who will do

pro-bono to make a name for himself. Shame on us. How do some of us sleep

at night.

"After all, if they brought home ALL the RESERVES and GUARDSMAN who are over there, could you imagine the UNEMPLOYMENT RATE?"

Actually they can stay in until their time in the military is up. But they can serve here in the United States. They build roads, schools, bridges, buildings, train others, use technical skills, cook, teach, police, fire department, create levees, rebuild/repair cars/planes/helicopters/boats,handle nuclear reactors, science .. much more .. not only border defense and staying military ready. All skills we can use here in our own country. It would actually be a win, win situation for the US.

"Can anyone really put a price on freedom? NO! FREEDOM IS NOT FREE!"

No, it isn't. But you took an Oath to protect the Constitution of the United States over anything else, even the officers orders above you or the POTUS.

We Need to Fire Them and Prosecute Them Now!

Article VI requires an oath by all government officials from all three branches, the military, and the States swearing to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.

Yet we have (and had) a government that is going against the US Constitutional mandates of how our government is supposed to run, taking away from the Bill of Rights section of the Constitution. So where are all of those who said the Oath to defend the United States by defending our Constitution "against all enemies, foreign and domestic"? Because our Constitution, our very Nation is in trouble from domestic enemies and everyone (except a few who tried to question the government practices against the US Constitution who have been jailed: CIA female agent, military men).

Significantly every Federal employee from the President on down, the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, all Military; every federal employee takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity. This is true for the simple reason that the Constitution is based on lasting principles of sound government that provide balance, stability, and consistency through time.

"You can remember this and stop being cynical :). You nee to believe in the system and vote. Not enough Americans vote at elections."

Believing in lies is not good enough anymore. The system I believe in is our nation, our government following the US Constitution which is NOT being done.

This POTUS has said multiple times he wants to change the US Constitution, even do away with it. His administration supports him/his views.

True, it is easier to run a government without having to deal with three branches, the states, and the American citizens. But if you want that, all of the other nations on this planet so NOT have it and please leave now.

Our way of government is so unique and rare that it has been done only three times in the history of mankind: Old Testament Israel, the Golden Age of Greece, and the era of emergence of the United States of America. As you can see, this is rare, but the type of government "our" representatives want is NOT rare, and does NOT value freedom.

Retired, you are probably aware that most E-4 and below qualify for food stamps.

And when have you known us to fight for freedom, you sap?

david-475776 # 6.9; there is more to this scenario in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan. China is on the move west, north and anywhere else. The Russian Federation does not have a clear path but has the resources. China has exhausted their resources and want more. Putin was just quoted in Reuters that the citizens of the US are parasites and have not been conservative with money and are in debt. There is a possibility that Putin's statement does have some validity; but, greed and the lack of discipline is also a factor.

Controlled drug trafficking for decades in the US. Inflation and the debt ceiling has probably increased to the point of no return. The middleclass will be extinct. The US has a rating of 24th or 25th in healthcare.

In the 1990's the military did not do well, I did not like what I witnessed. In this decade the people on social security are being tossed to the wind. And, our work ethic was moved to the service sector and then out-sourced.

I love my country and the spirit of the people in the Republic of the United States of America. The Constitution of our Republic of the United States that guarantees our liberties and freedoms is being destroyed. Many special interests and agendas are not protecting our country and citizens.

The Russian Federation is in trouble with the Chechen and will not join ISAF at the present time. The US will be in Afghanistan for many years. Casualties, i.e. civilian and military, are tragic. And, the military is to be commended for the attenuation of civilian loss in Iraq and Iran.

China is another case and there is a mystic. I read a report that the population in China was greatly reduced four years ago. Hu is a civil engineer.

The Russian Federation, one year ago last summer, was hit with fires and the wheat crop was affected. Two hundred naval warplanes burned southeast of Moscow in a hangar. That was a problem for the Russian Federation. The Chechen were active and that has been a problem. There is a possibility that the Russians have made some business deals with the Chinese like Donald Trump and other US entrepreneurs have and that is most likely a real problem.

Many thanks for all the info and Blessings!!!!

Except for a few poor lapses into the hate game, the amazing thing I'm seeing here is that large numbers of neocons/Tea partiers are in total agreement with Progressives/liberals. That's incredible. And necessary.

Because of the constant deluge of distortion media, we've become angry. Everybody blames the "other side". I have to hate you because you're a liberal socialist and you have to hate me because I'm a right wing nutjob.

But all that anger has been created out of thin air; manufactured for a specific purpose. That purpose remains hidden behind all the name calling and finger pointing.

Something extremely powerful NEEDS us to hate one another, so we cannot sit down at the same table, notice what's happening and put our minds together to stop it.

A powerful entity that wishes to remain hidden has a purpose. That purpose will never survive exposure to the light. The only way to defeat it is to pool our efforts.

romilio,

During WWII the USSR brought Iran (Persia) into WWII on the side of the Allies before the Axis could.

As far as the S-300s and S-400 you are so full of feces, you think it is a mistake that I am here (Afghanistan) and previously Iraq (living with the Kurdistanis right next to the "border"), and that previously I was trained on Nuclear Weapons, Biological Weapons, Chemical Weapons, Missiles, and my first "Middle Eastern" Language was Farsi. Stop coming up with old information. If I could without getting into more trouble I would post a map on photobucket with all the locations of the S-300s and S-400s missile batteries, and the thing you have not heard about (but the King of Saudi Arabia has), the Chinese Supersonic Antiship Missiles to control the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf Shipping (Saudi Oil Supertankers to the US and US Allies), that not so smart American tourist took pictures of some things at the Island controlled by Fundamentalist Islamic Iran and was arrested.

We (US and US Allies) did not recently move Eastward. Afghanistan was built up as a "Little America" during the 1950s to 1970s. Go do the Research.

I previously told you about the disclaimer of Wikipedia and so have many other posters and you still persist just like a two year old.

romilio - It is also stupid to even think that Russia and China support Islamic radicals

Your word for yourself. You come here, or previously Iraq and attempt to tell me that they are NOT giving weapons to Fundamentalist Islamic Iran, try to read the Cyrillic or Chinese stamped on the weapons and tell me that they are NOT Russian or Chinese. (also stamped on the cartridges). General McChrystal tried to tell all of you until he was told to shut up, since President Obama started his placation of Fundamentalist Islamic Iran. When General Petraeus was at Iraq he told everyone (Newsmedia) about this.

If you understand Afghanistan, then you understand Iran, as just like Afghanistan the Afghans were playing both Superpowers against each other to get the most out of each, money, new roads, military equipment, etc.. That is also what the Shah of Iran did.

Knine - Actually they can stay in until their time in the military is up. But they can serve here in the United States. They build roads, schools, bridges, buildings, train others, use technical skills, cook, teach, police, fire department, create levees, rebuild/repair cars/planes/helicopters/boats,handle nuclear reactors, science .. much more .. not only border defense and staying military ready. All skills we can use here in our own country. It would actually be a win, win situation for the US.

Most of what you state are done by the US Contractors not the US Military, especially "rebuild/repair cars/planes/helicopters/boats,handle nuclear reactors" are you going pay to train them.

Knine - create levees

US Army Corps of Engineers is already responsible for all US Waterways. This is why when US Conress held the Katrina hearing the US Army Corps of Engineer US Military Officer threw the Congressional Budget Cuts right back at them, since the US Army Corps of Engineers did not have the money to do the repairs, upgrades, maintenance on the Levees prior to Katrina, the money was diverted to rebuild the beaches at Kennybunkport, Maine, that are washed away each year. Also the reason why the US Army Corps of Engineers did not have the money for dredging the US Streams and Rivers (Floods at Midwest) or build reservoirs and lakes (Droughts at Midwest).

And the US Military Forces at Iraq and Afghanistan are the Federal Active US Military not the State's National Guard or Reserves. It would be Illegal to use the US Military Federal Active within the US. I am talking about 150,000 being thrown on Unemployment, then there is the US Civilians that will no longer be needed also and thrown on Unemployment.

annge68,

There are some other things that I cannot mention here that are going on at the Russian Federation and China. They (US Department of State) say that it is "Politically Sensitive Information", I say bullsh!t they are just hiding information from the American People. I keep thinking to myself, what are they going to do send me to Afghanistan LOL. Or send me on a vacation to the Fort Leavenworth Disciplinary Barracks, so I can sit in my own private cell and get three meals a day (gurarenteed), and not get shot at or freeze my arse off during the winters here. Of course I do not do this because I care about my men and women of my Command.

The Chechens are not only Russia's problem, as they are exporting Chechen Foreign Fighters. We have captured some and turned them over to the Afghans (horrible prison), same with the Hamas Foreign Fighters. The Afghans have no love for them as they are even more brutal than the Taliban or Al Quada. They have done things like stripping someone naked (Usually Aid Workers), used their clothes as tourniquets (arms and legs), pounded a rock into their mouth with a larger rock (lots of them here), cut off their eyelids (so they must watch), then cut off their arms and legs. They will usually light a smokey fire (they throw the arms and legs into the fire) for us to come and find the Aid Worker alive missing their arms and legs.

David, I understand and there is more going on in the Russian Federation and China. Putin will probably be elected President again. A year ago the Russian spies were arrested in the US and sent back to Russia. What did Anna Chapman et alia accomplish at Barclays and then in the Big Apple of the United States? They were using telemetry am I correct? The criminals always return to the scene of the crime. Miss Anna did not want to go back to her motherland. Why?

I was sullen after I read your reply earlier. My conclusion is most people can not listen nor do they want to listen to reality. My friend who was one of the two investigators of Karen Silkwood's murder had me read "Johnny Got His Gun" years ago, I now have another perspective of the carnage inflicted and of the carnal sins of mankind. If information is released then others will know more than you, the right time to disseminate information takes wisdom. I believe that you have the wisdom to know when and, then, with whom to trust information.

NATO=US. Call it like it is, media.

Wait a moment, NATO casualties in Afghanistan:

US - 1694

Other NATO countries - 929

Looks like not just US soldiers are dying there, if that is what you mean. Other NATO countries are losing young people too. But you are right, this is America's war. If not for the USA, other NATO countries wouldn't be there.

We are making up the difference in Libya with "humanitarian aid" ...
That's Obamanology for a war where you spill money but not blood.

Rafal W,

Population of those small NATO Nations versus Population of the US.

And Yes NATO is the US, based on money, bases, Military Strength, etc. contributed to NATO by the US.

"Population of those small NATO Nations versus Population of the US.

And Yes NATO is the US, based on money, bases, Military Strength, etc. contributed to NATO by the US."

But our military should not be used to implement UN concerns, especially when we are also paying for it. We pay for it in lives and US dollars, and it must stop.

This is not Constitutional.

Since its inception, when have you not known the US not to be at war?

Since its inception, when have you not known the US not to be at war?

There was a brief period between Vietnam in 1975 to Desert Storm in 1991 Where the US didn't start any wars.

AhhCrap - Where the US didn't start any wars.

We did not start them but we (US Military Training Teams from Germany) were at:

Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars.

Afghanistan/Pakistan during the USSR 40th Army Occupation.

The US Military Training Teams accompany those that they trained into Combat to make corrections to future training, and make on the spot corrections to training (we end up as Combatants).

Government leaders worldwide live in their own private elitist fantasy world, so it's no wonder they can't even begin to imagine being able to do the right thing.

I have always felt that the President and Congress should be the first ones to fight if they feel so strongly about a war; they aren't doing much around here anyhow.

Armchairs warriors, a bunch of cowards. Especially when it started with 2 draft dodgers in Bush and Cheney. And then Obama lies to us about getting them out.

I look at the idiots in Congress who wallow in self importance but are yellow cowards at heart. If God cried, it is the stupidity of war at this stage of the game in our behavioral evolution that would produce the tears. There is absolutely no need for war. Again it is all about greed and the desire for power. My tears of sympathy for the families of the the brave soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice.

I think for the elections in 2012 we should form the party of the American people. The other parties can run around trying to get their candidates elected, but we the people will vote only for candidates of the American People Party. In the past 3rd party candidates have tried to make a bid for the White house, only to just pull votes from one candidate or another. We need to come together as the American people and show our power. We are sick of the mess in Congress and of the theft of our country by banks, Wall street and the very rich. If 300 million of us voted for candidates of the American Party, there would be no more other parties. It is one way among others to gain our country back and worth a shot. We will take Congress. We will then be able to undo many of our problems for our Congress will be working for us.

"We need to come together as the American people and show our power. We are sick of the mess in Congress and of the theft of our country by banks, Wall street and the very rich."

We do not have to wait for elections. That idea is the "brainwashing the government has done to the American citizens; "do not waste your vote", "one vote doesn't matter".

But our country is still under the Constitution and we can hold them accountable for not upholding their Oath of Office to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States". Not doing so makes them domestic enemies of the United States".

"I [name] do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic... "

Being Chairman for the United Nations (2009) while holding a government office is against the US Constitution. Not enforcing laws already in effect (illegal immigration) is against the US Constitution. Patriot Act and the searches at the airports are against the US Constitution. The POTUS writing legislature is against the US Constitution.

"Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai will appear in federal court this afternoon in Alexandria, Va. He's not charged with being a spy. But he is charged with being an unregistered agent or lobbyist of the Pakistani government.

According to the records, Burton, in addition, Fai gave the National Republican Senatorial Committee money. Rep. Jim Pitts, R-Pa., Rep. Jim Moran, Rep. Dana Rohrbacher, Al Gore, Dennis Kucinich, and Barack Obama."

"May 4, 2011 Letter from the Apropriations Committee to Secretary Clinton concerning $190 million cash payments ...

especially on the day after this Administration denied federal disaster assistance to my own state of Texas after wildfires destroyed more then 2.2 million acres and 400 homes. I urge you to reconsider and suspend this activity. ..."

and lots more corruption in "our" government. We Need to Fire Them Now, then prosecute them

Graham, Bush was Honorably Discharged from the Air Force Reserve and Cheney was exempted from his military service.

Nice try, would you like another go?

@Graham: Please explain how you can refer to Bush as a "draft dodger"?

It's brave just to be out there doing it, and what is wrong with fighting while staying safe?

I would like our troops to come home as well, but please don't call their acts foolish and stupid. They are our soldiers. Thomas Jefferson said, "The tree of liberty must be fed with the blood of tyrants and patriots." The Nato forces are helping destabilize an ever weakening Taliban that seeks to cut out the tounge of the rest of civilization. They want their way and rest of the world is rebuking them. So you are correct that it is not a fight for America. It is a fight for liberty to live without tyranny, here, there and everywhere.

@SwellSurfer88- we get the point without the explitives. I think you should try some herbal tea.

Awww, poor baby, can't handle a curse word or two?

You enjoy voting for yourself, don't you? Your impetuousness shows your maturity. Don't forget the first rule of the Vine's Code of Honor. Not every one needs to read your filth and you can do a better job of it. I understand your frustration without the need for explitives in your writing. Remember, this is a public forum.

Being the number one superpower we have to police the rest of the world. swellsurfer88 does need something though you're right Fargo. Maybe a frontal lobotomy would help. "The rich get the power"!!! "The poor become the warriors"!!! Give me a break. Everyone in America has the chance to become rich. That's what makes our country the greatest in the world. Get off your surfboard and make something of yourself.

Yes Fargo, I voted for myself 3 times. Middletownman, way to assume that by my Newsvine handle that I have accoomplished nothing and failed to make something of myself. Get on a surfboard and take the stick out of your ass.

@9.6 -- You described the essential problem, our imperialist attitude of "Being the number one superpower we have to police the rest of the world."

Says who? You? Are you willing to step up and sacrifice your sons and daughters to police the world? Are you willing to pay a lot more of your hard-earned money in taxes so we can pay the bills for policing the world?

Yeah, I thought not.

Bobl and SS88;

Perhaps, you'll be standing at the the site of their next terrorist attack. If you survive it, we'll see if you hold the same opinion. It's easy to rave, cuss and accuse from the safety of your home. The Taliban rose from a vacuum of authority after the Soviet withdrawal and will do so again if we pick up and leave. Do you really think they will not take advantage of the situation? Do you honestly believe they will sit in their caves thinking "all is forgiven"? Having, in their eyes, forced the U.S. out, do you really want to live with daily suicide bombings? I heard this same @!$%# in the '60's, while you elders were calling us names and throwing @!$%# at us. History is repeating itself. Tell me, when do you start throwing stuff at these troops and calling them names?

And to answer azdad 48 , I currently have two sons in the military, 5 nephews and two nieces. I was in from '65 to '75. Our "policing" the world began in earnest after WWII. Where was all this concern of our Imperialism then? Tell me this, Would you rather walk down the street wondering if this was the day a car bomb goes off next to you? would you rather fight an enemy on his turf or your block? Tell me, What would YOU be willing to do if the war should came to our shores? Would you take up arms against them or and I think it more likely, hide in you house hoping these troops you malign, saves you? Freedom is not and never has or will be Free. Your rights to sit in judgement of things you clearly do not understand must be paid for. If not by you, then by better men and women in your stead. You call fro people to "step up". You first,, lead by example or shut up.

THUMPS UP to this comment. Have had a father-in-law, and two grandfathers that served (and came home) in WWII, a husband and oldest son in Iraq (each time) with subsequent service in lots of other "hot spots" all over the globe, including now (retired) time as a civilian "security" contractor in Afghanistan. Am in totally agreement - freedom costs. There are good men and women in the armed services laying down their lives, literally, every single day - for everyone else's "freedoms" including those disenting opinions. What would you do without the freedoms you so "enjoy" this day? Visit Israel or Russia, even modern day, Iraq, Iran & the Afghanistan people ~ and then do some comparing and honest evaluating.

Maybe folks will start making enough noise to stop these wars. Where is the condolences for the families of the 4450+ fine US service member killed by the acts of a mad man---George W Bush?

I haven't noticed a war that we needed to enter since WWII. Real liberals don't believe in any of these wars--past or present. They have not make us safer and have ran the country into financial ruin.

Unfortunately evil makes war necessary. It is naive to believe otherwise. And it has been just that naivete that has allowed our country to become and remain vulnerable. The only way to confront evil is to to do so with force. This is an unfortunate truth.

--->the poor become the warriors<---

Without a doubt, many of our country's youth turn to the military for a way out of poor socioeconomic conditions, only to find themselves living in poverty once again. But today's all volunteer military , is comprised of a proportionately higher level of education than the rest of the US population. Education is the tool for achieving financial freedom. It is reasonable to deduce that these same brave soldiers would find financial success in the private sector should they wish to make that their pursuit. Instead, they selflessly honor us with their service and sacrifice, leaving the possibilities of financial gain behind. But make no mistake, they are not forced into this. They are not the poor that are left to fight for the wealthy. They are highly motivated, selfless, brave, and patriotic sons and daughters, who choose to serve their county. To insinuate that they were compelled to serve is an insult to their dignity and memory.

Its people like you who complain and whine who have never stepped foot in the desert. Have never put on the uniform everyday and have never felt the pride and self sacrifice it could bring. Any soldier knows when they sign on the dotted line that this could happen. So stop with your ignorant comments, its disrespectful to military personnel like myself... and alot of fellow military personnel I know are sick with the complaints of the civilian population.

your comment only shows your ignorance , are you , or have you ever been in the military .probably not . well some of the greatest fighting MEN we have ever produced , are dead and your comment is about how foolish we are to be at war with terrorists. .funny thing we are not at war with afghanistan but IN afghanistan our war is with the taliban , al queda and any other terror group foolish enuff to stick the heads up so , you think the murder of more than 3000 men women and children should be overlooked by our nation 3000 innocent people from all walks of life all different nationalities and we should bury our heads in the sand , I hope for your safety none of the brothers of those seals know who you are cause serious a$$ whippins are in your future if they do . GOD BLESS AMERICA and rest in peace my brothers , yes i am NAVY , you little weasel .and i pray you never suffer at the hands of our enemies.

Alphawolf, thanks for serving. Good to see another serviceman posting on this. Its just discouraging seeing these kind of comments from the civilian population. Makes me sick to my stomach and frustrated as well. This guy and the rest of the people who post negatively obviously do NOT support us as troops. And I don't want to hear "We support the troops, not the war" If you don't support the war shut your mouth and go out and do community service to make the country a better place, otherwise sit on your hands and be quiet. Because I'm sure its people like this that TAKE TAKE TAKE from the government and have never once given an ounce of effort to help it.

FOOLISH WASTE OF YOUNG LIVES????????

I am sick of you MINDLESS FOOLS who believe we should not be fighting this war. Do you not recall the events of 9-11? Are you really so naive to believe that these mutt terrorists just gave up the idea of attacking the United States and our citizens? Let me assure you, they have not. They are not able to attack the US right now as they are involved in the FIGHT for their own lives.

Every time you people make claims such as you just did, you cheapen the lives lost. These battles are equally important as to anything we have ever fought for.

Thank GOD we have young people in our country who do not share you views. Thank GOD we have people willing to stand up and FIGHT for US and thank GOD we loose so few when compared to previous wars we have fought.

GOD Bless our troops who FIGHT FOR YOU even though you appreciate NONE of the sacrafices they make. How about the sacrafices of the ones we lost 10 years ago in NY, DC and PA? How about the sacrafices of the firefighters and police officers who ran into buildings to save innocent people attacked by jerks like these idiots over there now? Do we just cut tail and crap on their memories?

Your time would be better spent supporting them and the families of all who are lost. This is NOT IRAQ or NAM, it is the place and the people who planned how to attack us and harbored the fools who did it. Honor those who were lost by allowing those who did it to feel the wrath of the People of the United States.

and now i will go and do the thing all of you should be doing . I AM GOING TO GO AND WEEP FOR MY COMRADES .

JUST A THOUGHT , we have lost 4000 + 3000 so far in this conflict . 7000+- . in my war viet nam we lost 50,000 +- IN THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME . BETTER TRAINING AND WEAPONS , do show huh and we are told this time to kill the enemy not just count them .

I trhink what is wrong with the liberal mindset is that they cannot evaluate a situation based upon facts. It's all knee-jerk reaction with little thought process. Should we have gone to Afghanistan in the first place - Of course, we had to respond to 9-11. When should we leave? When the likelihood of Afghanistan once again becoming a terrorist haven is eliminated.

Should we have gone to Iraq in the first place - not quite so clear. You can rail about oil all you want, but that was not the main reason (although it certainly must play a part in our decision making process). Because of 9-11 we were given an opportunity to try and eliminate as many of the sponsors of terrorism around the world as possible. Hussein and Iraq just happened to be the easiest target on the list. Iran and North Korea would have been very difficult to do without precipitating a much wider war. Yes, I know. Iraq was NOT involved in 9-11. Bush never said they were. But they were sponsoring terrorism around the world, at some point DID have WMD, and WERE hiding some Al-Quieda who fled Afghanistan after 9-11. Given all that, I have my doubts as to the wisdom of taking on Iraq at the same time as Afghanistan. If we would have concentrated our forces in Afghanistan, just maybe we would not be there today. But we will never know, will we?

Oatis: The Taliban didn't attack us on 9/11. Al-Qaeda did. Everyone, including me, respects those who do a tough job most of us never could. As our troops, they deserve support.

However, that doesn't mean we have to support a stupid war that gains us nothing.

Stop questioning people's patriotism. It's really old now.

We will never kill enough tribal militias, terrorists, guerrilla fighters, or innocent sheep herders to satisfy the revenge and blood lust of those who were outraged on 9/11, nor will we end terrorism. We are only making things worse.

People like you supported these useless conflicts because you would rather base your decisions on emotions and fear, rather than facts.

You need to educate yourself and join the ranks of global security experts and military leaders who all agree that the mission to build a democracy in a hopelessly corrupt tribal mess, has failed and has no hope of turning around. It's been 10 years now.

Real patriots know the best thing for us is to get out and repair our own country, which is crumbling. We need to end this madness.

alphawolf55
your comment only shows your ignorance , are you , or have you ever been in the military .probably not . well some of the greatest fighting MEN we have ever produced , are dead and your comment is about how foolish we are to be at war with terrorists. .funny thing we are not at war with afghanistan but IN afghanistan our war is with the taliban , al queda and any other terror group foolish enuff to stick the heads up so , you think the murder of more than 3000 men women and children should be overlooked by our nation 3000 innocent people from all walks of life all different nationalities and we should bury our heads in the sand , I hope for your safety none of the brothers of those seals know who you are cause serious a$$ whippins are in your future if they do . GOD BLESS AMERICA and rest in peace my brothers , yes i am NAVY , you little weasel .and i pray you never suffer at the hands of our enemies.

I served in the USN during Nam, my brother was in country. My father was a WWII submariner. My son is a USN officer with 14+ years in service. We didn't need to send our youth to fight the wars of Haliburton, KBR, Lockheed, and the others that Eisenhower warned us about.

The 3000+ innocents that were killed on 9-11? They were killed by religious fanatics--much like our country--they become immersed in religion and find a way to justify doing harm to others in the name of their "god." No country attacked us on 9-11 and the people that did were in this country illegally--from our ally nation, Saudi Arabia.

Let this stop now. It's not the sons and daughters of the wealthy that fight the wars. Send the members of Congress to fight the wars that they want.

"Tell me, What would YOU be willing to do if the war should came to our shores"

Supposedly it did with 9/11, remember?

But that doesn't mean we cannot protect our shores by keeping our military more at home, doing our airport security more like Israel (Theirs is the safest in the world) instead of using it against American citizens.

I am NOT for the US military being at the "beck and call" of the UN. Nor is it Constitutional. Having been in the military, and having many of your family in I bet you remember the Oath is to ".. support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same". It is significant that every Federal employee from the President on down, the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, all Military; every federal employee takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity.

So why are you supporting the administration (administrations) that have weakened our Constitution, flat out went against it, and do not run our government as Constitutionally mandated to? The Constitution of the United States of America defines the US system of government.

The US Constitution is why there is a United States of America, and any of "our" representatives (now and past) who went against it needs to be arrested, escorted out of office, and prosecuted or our military is not defending the US from enemies foreign and domestic.

"And I don't want to hear "We support the troops, not the war" If you don't support the war shut your mouth and go out and do community service to make the country a better place, otherwise sit on your hands and be quiet. Because I'm sure its people like this that TAKE TAKE TAKE from the government and have never once given an ounce of effort to help it."

I do, lots of us do. We are fighting for our country from the enemies within, "domestic enemies" as our Constitution calls them. They are this administration and previous ones weakening, going against, going round, re writing the US Constitution until one day our military comes home and finds out that America is under the United Nations and subject to its laws, and the Constitution/American is no more.

Some of us are already jailed "for crimes not committed but might be done in the future" and detained without representation (can be for up to 10 years now), some are getting their doors kicked in by our "law enforcement" with no warrant, no knocks and dying from it when they thought they were protecting their home from "home invasions" (one soldier just got home from Afghanistan and was killed/murdered by our "law enforcement" doing a "search" with no warrant).

Yeah, American, home of the free and the brave who let our domestic enemies take over our nation with no fight. When our government goes against the US Constitution that makes them domestic enemies of the United States.

"There are good men and women in the armed services laying down their lives, literally, every single day - for everyone else's "freedoms" including those disenting opinions"

But are they fighting the war for the United States or being sent by a corrupt government for the UN, corporations, and banks.

Look up the US Constitution, look up the Oath you took when you serve/served, look up the Oaths "our" representatives take to get into that office or position they are in. Then look at what they are doing, have done about following the US Constitution. It is still the highest law of this land, but it is being weakened, not followed by our government though it defines how our government will be run, the illegal laws they past that are making the enforcers criminals if we save our nation.

All law enforcement took the oath to support, defend the US Constitution also

Don-988184

I trhink what is wrong with the liberal mindset is that they cannot evaluate a situation based upon facts. It's all knee-jerk reaction with little thought process. Should we have gone to Afghanistan in the first place - Of course, we had to respond to 9-11. When should we leave? When the likelihood of Afghanistan once again becoming a terrorist haven is eliminated.

LMAO that is NOT why we went to Afghanistan, 9/11, you need to research a little more

@bbrick: As a veteran myself, I have to keep reminding myself that the time I spent on active duty was spent defending the very freedoms that are being exercised on this thread. I (we) were defending their right to say these types of things, even though I consider it disgraceful that they are being said.

bbrick, don't even attempt to think for me; it is the duty and responsibility of every veterand to avert war.

US Amy veteran Desert Storm.

T Fargo (9.2) you are one confused ingnorant sap.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Mark Twain

Knine: So the 1st amendment only applies to you?

I've never taken anything from the government and I work. I've been against these stupid wars for 10 years. Any idiot can see the tail is wagging the dog and has been for a long time.

I don't like the police state we've created either, but think for a minute. Doesn't the arrogance of lying your people into a war have something to do with the arrogance of the same folks violating your civil rights, the latter being a precedent for the former?

It does.

unfortunately sir, you are the foolish one. Afghanistan wasn't because of corrupt greedy officials, that was Iraq. I am ready for them to come home too, but you know what? Afghanistan was for the bastards who killed our people for no reason. We may have gotten Bin Laden, but that doesn't mean it's over. Taliban is al-Qaeda affiliated, and you can't argue otherwise. They house and support them whenever able, and allow them to be a bigger and bigger threat. If you want us to up and leave, good for you, I wish we didn't have to be there myself. But as the saying goes, big kids need to clean up their own messes, and we caused a mess that we have to straighten out before we just leave. Their lives weren't wasted, but most definitely mourned. Go get a better education and a life. We may not like them being there, but the alternative is definitely the least favorable.

Alpha, oatis, knine, bbrick, it is ignorant saps like you that perpepuate the killing of fine men and women (non whom are dying for freedoms).

Yes foolish...foolish and wasteful.

djm0009: Here's the problem with what you're saying: The Taliban had very little to do with 9/11. I suggest you check out the excellent Frontline documentaries on Afghanistan.

The Taliban may be nasty, but they are not our enemies. We created that dynamic. Mullah Omar was lied to and used by Bin Laden as cover. They are not terrorists. They are Pashtun guerrilla fighters who want their tribe in control. They oppose us because we are there. Did we learn nothing from the Soviets? I guess not.

There is nothing you can clean up anymore. It's over. We cannot and will not succeed.

I also suggest you visit the Rand corporation website or GlobalSecurity.org. These guys know a hell of lot more about the strategic and tactical situation in Afghanistan then you do.

And for the record, staying another 10 years and failing is the real least favorable option.

Foolish waste? Stupid, stupid, stupid...... I don't think those that serve and those that gave their lives share your opinion!

Humans have been at war for as long as human civilization has been around. If war was a good solution to problems, we'd have probably run out of problems by this point. Is there a situation that needs to be dealt with over in Afghanistan? Yes, of course. But war is not the solution we need, so lets stop pissing away money and lives please.

I find this comment the most offensive thing I've read in years on the newsvine. The freedoms you and I take for granted are being defended and extended to other HUMANs by people who VOLUNTEERED to go into the military. I will mourn those who died, but I cheer on for the reason they chose to fight. Until you have put forth the effort and have been in the military in a combat zone and have seen first hand the oppression of people and women whose only "crime" was to be born, kindly get a life and keep your pacifistic nihilistic self serving commentary to yourself.

As has been cited many times in the responses above, Freedom is not free. I also don't care for the way my country has been turned into a de facto if not de jure police state. D. Eisenhower said it perfectly in his first inaugural address (Source: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/):

“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”

yakfitguy you are exactly who I am speaking of. This has nothing to do with patriotism, this has everything to do with why we fight.

The concept of a military is to extend the reach of a nation. The reason we fight a war against terrorists in Afghanistan is to prevent having to fight the same war in LA, NYC, DC or another US City.

Do you people really think they just gave up the idea of attacking us? No. They do not because they are busy fighting our troops. It is that simple. It is far better to allow our troops to fight on our terms over there than it is to react to another attack over here.

The lack of critical thinking in our country is scary. Stop listening to NPR and start thinking for yourself. Use the brain in your head and really ask yourself that if these people who hate us (and they do), the same people who raised millions of dollars to attack us, just gave up the idea. I assure you, they have not.

We tried the do nothing aproach after they first bombed the World Trade Center and the USS Cole, this seems to be working better as we have not been attacked in almost 10 years.

Project much Oatis? Like I said, the military experts don't agree with you. They do think for themselves as do I.

La Maripoza- Samuel Johnson quoted patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel meaning the act of patriotism (love of country) is the cloak under which a scoundrel hides. If you are suggesting our service men are not patriots, then that is your ignorance showing, not once, but twice. You do know that Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) and Samuel Johnson are two different people, right? Maybe you should change into that butterfly and go away. You have nothing to fight for until you have nothing to lose.

I don't think that he is,and it's NOT his fault the chopper went down!

@ JA - Lame comment. The President doesn't micromanage every military operation, nor can he control whether some Taliban a**hole gets off a lucky shot with an RPG. You'd make more sense to blame the previous administration for getting us involved in the whole mess 10 years ago.

This still the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Halliburton war that was supposed to be won by "President" Bush in 2003.

Obama is just trying to get us out of it without our being totally castrated.

It is also why I am no longer a Republican after 40 years of supporting the Party. Republican decisions and lies have done more harm to the US economy and killed more American soldiers than the Communist Party or Al Qaeda ever did.

Amen Jym Allyn- I am a 30 year retired Army veteran with 3 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan. I used to be a Republican, but now I am a staunch Democrat. I will be voting for Mr Obama in 2012.

Charles III-3741742 - I don't think that he is,and it's NOT his fault the chopper went down!

Keep cutting the US Defense Budget and it is his fault, Maintenance of the CH-47s as paid for, for US Contractors to maintain.

Jym Allyn - This still the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Halliburton war that was supposed to be won by "President" Bush in 2003.

GROW UP. You really believe that there is any difference between the Professional Politicians of the Demoncraps, Repugnants, In Depends (Adult Diapers), or Scrotums (Tea Baggers), since all of them MUST prostitute themselves and sell out the US Citizens to get their Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions.

And Afghanistan started by sending us (US Military Training Teams from Germany) to Pakistan/Afghanistan to Train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen during the USSR 40th Army Occupation, as demanded by Senator Charles Wilson, Democrat, Texas.

If this were a Game Show, I would tell you BUY A F**KING CLUE.

Hey David why don't you get a F**king clue (just taking from you)

and who started to train them in the 80s a REPUBLICAN President

And yes the political parties are different one wants to give everyone everything, one wants make wealthier more wealthy, Tea baggers are just idiots...

AJS-- I am sure the two draft dodgers that started this mess are enjoying their weekend in Texas and Wyoming. Especially the one who is living off his ill-gotten gains from Haliburton.

-->This still the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Halliburton war that was supposed to be won by "President" Bush in 2003.<--

I respectfully take issue with this notion although I honestly appreciate how this could be interpreted this way. Perhaps some history may be in order for those who believe this is the Bush Cheney war, even though it did happen on their watch.

I was in the defense business at the end of Bush 41's term in office and was there when Clinton took over. Within Clinton's first 90 days in office he enacted two executive orders; The first was drafted by his Deputy Attorney General (and close confidant), Jamie Gorelick. This EO precluded the intelligence gathering communities / agencies from sharing intelligence with one another. The second EO forbade our intelligence operatives from associating with known killers and terrorists! This is exactly what they are supposed to do if they are operating covertly. It was the single most destructive policy which led to our vulnerabilities. Within months, our operators in theater were cut by two thirds. At one time during the Bush 41 administration, we had over 127 operators and translators who spoke fluent Farsi. My understanding (although I do not have confirmation of this to be honest because I was already out of the business) is that on 9-11, we only had sixteen. The BBC employed more people knowledgeable in Farsi than the US government. This war happened because of the neglect and complacency of the Clinton Administration.

And dumbest comment of the day goes to....

Old Sarge, "Amen Jym Allyn- I am a 30 year retired Army veteran with 3 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan. I used to be a Republican, but now I am a staunch Democrat. I will be voting for Mr Obama in 2012."

Yet you took an Oath, this Oath: National Guard (Army or Air): I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God

The Oath of Office (for officers): "I, ____— (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of ____— do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees): "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

All of them say that your first thing to defend is the Constitution of the United States from enemies foreign or domestic over the POTUS, officers.

Every Federal employee from the President on down, the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, all Military; every federal employee takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity because the US Constitution establishes our system of government.

When "our" government goes against the Constitution, even a little (and this has been way more then a little) it is NOT supporting it. The Constitution has been under assault from "domestic enemies", our own government and you say that you would vote for the one who has done more then Bush to destroy the US Constitution?

Knine- Your statement about our President, and Commander in Chief is wrong. It is you opinion, and you are entitled to it, but it places you in the lunatic fringe category, in my book. President Obama has struggled to right this horrible condition of our nation that he inherited. He is the democratically elected president of this nation, and nothing that he has done in office is against the Constitution. If it is, the US Supreme Court will strike it down. You are in serious need of a civics lesson. And I don't need a lesson from you about the oath of enlistment. My DD214 is 2 pages long listing the awards that I was given serving this country. And yes, I will exercise my Constitutional right to vote for President Obama in 2012.

Old Sarge- good for you sir, good for you. I appreciate your military record and respect your right to vote for whoever you want. But honestly, voting for Obama in 2012 would put this country in the coffin even faster. Shoot, voting for the Republican candidate would be the same thing!

You want to see this country change and improve? Get away from this bogus two party system we have. George Washington said it, "The two party system will be the death of America." And boy has he been proven right again and again. You think Obama is helping you? He wants to take your pension and make it worthless. You think Bush was helping you? He wanted to do the same thing. Our average US Soldier salary is $38,000. The average Congressman? $179,000. And it INCREASED after the DEMOCRATS took control of Congress! Yeah, Democrats love our soldiers so much, lining their pockets with tax money and making our soldier lower to middle class. Oh well, I guess the government having all the money is better than the citizens having it. And in Republicans case, only 5% of the population have all the money is better than everyone having it. Look at the facts people, cut the entire salary of Congress in half, you can create 1800 $40,000 a year jobs. Cut the salary of the biggest CEOs in our country who make 300,000,000 by 100,000,000, you can create almost 4500 $40,000 a year jobs. Yeah, our two party system REALLY WORKS!!!! Get a clue people. You argue Democrats-Republicans, while both of them want to screw all of us over. This is OUR country, not theirs. Why don't WE take it back?

AJS-2259086 - Hey David why don't you get a F**king clue (just taking from you) and who started to train them in the 80s a REPUBLICAN President.

My men women and myself started to Train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen.

I do not give a flying f**k who was the President in 1980s, it was NOT Repugnants "Bush Cheney according to Jym Allyn. And why do you think Afghanistan was referred to as "Charley Wilson's War", what, because it sounded nice. He gave us a rah rah speech about how important our mission was before we left.

Stick your nose up your arse. And not in a conversation between Jym Allyn and myself.

And coming up with uninformed nonsense like believing that there is a difference between Demoncraps, Repugnants, In Depends (Adult Diapers), or Scrotums (Tea Baggers) as they all prostitute themselves and sell out the US Citizens to get their Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions.

SO BUY A F**KING CLUE. AJS-2259086 . Do I have to spoon feed you then change your diapers.

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea
The Price Tag Of Politics

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

How in h3ll do you think President Obama got $1 Billion USDs of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions before he even started his recent campaign fund raisers.

PBS Documentary "Obama's Deal".

And:

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM IS: a. Our Representatives chosen at random like Jury Duty as a Civic Duty (including vetting)., b. Term Limits., c. Elimination of the Electoral College., d. A Salary the National Average of the "Middle Class"., e. Benefits like the US Military (including Income tax withholding, deductions for Tri Care (Medical), deductions for Social Security, deductions, etc.) that end upon completion of Service., f. One for One Voting similar to Secure Electronic Banking almost all issues., g. Housing owned by the State, at lower cost Virginia not D.C.., h. Lobbyists and Special Interests 100% Illegal., i. Votes of No Confidence., j. etc. (Mentioned on other Newsvine Posts.).

Old Sarge-3447849,

It is NOT our Popular Vote that determines the President and Vice President of the US. It is the Electoral College. That is why I strongly believe that the Electoral College MUST be Eliminated.

TSPC,

After the US got kicked out of Iran, I believed that we would never return. So instead of becoming USSR Qualified, when they were the "Real Enemy", I became "Middle East" Qualified, Language Farsi. It was not that I was chicken, it was just that I did not want to end up fighting at that time against the USSR. Of course the awe stup!d did happen when I ended up at Iraq on the US Military Training Teams from Germany to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, with the USSR actually sending their Spetsnaz to Hunt and Kill us. We were later rotated to Pakistan/Afghanistan to train the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, so there we were shoulder to shoulder fighting the USSR 40th Army Occupation.

TSPC - Within months, our operators in theater were cut by two thirds.

That was President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies, resulting in the US having to rely on non crediable, non verifiable Intelligence from Potentially Hostile Nations (what Bush 43 Inherited). If you were part of the "Community" you know that we (US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces) are sometimes tasked to independently verify intelligence. President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction In Force (RIF) of the US Military got rid of a lot of us also (percentages higher than the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces, since back then it was the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces that decided who got RIFed, so they got rid of the "Rogues and Renegades" (their term for US Military Special Operations)) so a lot of intelligence verification never happened. After those times I was going to have a tee shirt printed "I Survived the Clinton Massacre".

TSPC - At one time during the Bush 41 administration, we had over 127 operators and translators who spoke fluent Farsi.

That is because Bush 41 was the former Director of the CIA. What was almost laughable about President Clinton's Gutting of the CIA, is that the CIA is the President's Own Eyes on the World, as the Executive Intelligence Agency (prior to ODNI). So by Gutting the "Company" (CIA) it was like President Clinton sticking a stick into his own eyes.

TSPC -we only had sixteen

fifteen. The numbers of people that knew Farsi all knew each other at that time. Do not even ask how I know.

Well said. I agree 100%.

We need to "sell" the country to China.

They know how to deal with insurgencies and how to mine the rare earth minerals in NE Afghanistan.

They also have a much better policy than we do with heroin producers: they shoot the farmers and burn the crops.

thegunny - We are obviously in a no win situation in the middle east. Bring the troops home and put them on the Mexican border where they might do some good.

Illegal to use Federal Active US Military within the US. And the States National Guard cannot absorb the US Military from Iraq and Afghanistan, 150,000 and the US Civilians that support the 150,000 US Military, meaning they all go on Unemployment.

Don't they teach you anything in the USMC (the senior NCO (USMC) of my Command Team is laughing), so that if you are or were in the USMC you do not violate US Law(s).

Jym Allyn - We need to "sell" the country to China.

The Afghans already believe that the US will Cut and Run again, so the Afghans sold licenses to the Chinese, and the Chinese are already mining the mineral wealth of Afghanistan.

There would have been riots in the streets long ago in this country if we were fighting these useless bush wars with conscripts...

There would have been riots in the streets long ago in this country if we were fighting these useless bush wars with conscripts...

agreed,

The politicians don`t have the balls to start drafting people to fight wars like these.If people stopped joining the military then the politicians wouldn`t have the cannon fodder to waste on wars like these and these useless wars would end.

wryobsever - There would have been riots in the streets long ago in this country if we were fighting these useless bush wars with conscripts...

Having been involved with Iraq and Afghanistan since the 1980s, these Wars are NOT "bush wars".

Yeah they are, papa bush was VP in the 80s or have you forgotten

ysidero, JymAllyn & old Sarge;

SO those who bombed the Cole, the Marine barracks and the trade center, twice, etc., have no blame in this?

Tell me, If we pick up and leave, do you really think the terrorists won't follow us home? You do remember the twin towers, yes? What/, you buy into the inside job conspiracy? Naive much?

So what will you three do should the war come home? What if it is fought here, in your neighborhood, on your block, maybe in your house? The trade center shows they are capable. Do you want to live wondering if a car bomb will take you out today? I did 4 extended tours in Vietnam. Should the fight come here, I may be old but I'm well armed and I will send as many rags to Allah as possible. Yet, I didn't change my opinion of big government, it still sucks. Nor do I consider my serve useless, just the hippie trash who now control the Senate. Something you should know, especially you Old Sarge, Freedom, is nor will it ever be,,,,Free. Someone has to defend it, if not any of you, better men and women in your stead.

David475, Posse Comatadus does not apply in issues of National Security. Stopping the invasion of the U.S. by foreign nationals falls under that classification. Troops should have already been deployed to stop the mass insurgency from the south. Smuggling of people, arms and drugs across the border is not a civil police matter. Better get a law refresher. All that is needed is the will to regulate the borders to send in the troops. But, these are potential Obama supporters if they given amnesty. An easy and illegal way to get 13 million plus votes for the Dims.

Nicodemus1946- Lest you forget the incidents you mention were done by Saudi's and Yemenis. NOT Iraqis ar Afghanistan. There was no shock and awe in either one of those countries. We didn't pull our Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. I can still remember the vision of George W. Bush aiding the King of Saudi Arabia to walk on a visit to the U.S. Got to have that OIL.

Nicodemus1946 - David475, Posse Comatadus does not apply in issues of National Security. Stopping the invasion of the U.S. by foreign nationals falls under that classification.

Nope, only if the President of the US declares a National Emergency with US NORTHCOM (Contingency Plans) becoming the C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Coordination and Intelligence) for the Operations.

Nicodemus1946 - Troops should have already been deployed to stop the mass insurgency from the south. Smuggling of people, arms and drugs across the border is not a civil police matter. Better get a law refresher.

Guess again. A very long time ago I was TDA to US Law Enforcement on the US Southern Borders to experience Insurgency/Counter Insurgency Warfare in a low intensity low risk environment. Back then it was routine to do this for US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces prior to sending us to South and Central Americas (medium intensity, medium risk). The US Laws pertaining to this have NOT changed.

Nicodemus1946 - All that is needed is the will to regulate the borders to send in the troops.

Until the National Emergency is declared by Presidential Executive Order, at the most the State's National Guard can only be deployed.

Nicodemus1946 - But, these are potential Obama supporters if they given amnesty. An easy and illegal way to get 13 million plus votes for the Dims.

The actual count during the 2006 Illegal (no permits, disruption of traffic trade and commerce) Nationwide Demonstrations of Illegal Aliens was over 23 Million, not including the Illegal Aliens that stayed away from the Demonstrations to avoid drawing attention to themselves. This was to prevent the US Congress from passing President Bush's 2006 Illegal Alien Act (the original was apprehensions and deportations, Congress watered it down to amnesty, US Congress chickened out of passing anything fearing for their lives (definition of terrorism) because of the Nationwide Demonstrations of Illegal Aliens.).

President Obama's Stated Policy of April 2009 (stated to Mexican President) and August 2009 (stated to Canadian Prime Minister) say it all, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".

And August 2009, AP, Guadalajara, Mexico:

And immigration remained a sore spot. While Obama has said he'd like to start crafting an overhaul that legalizes millions of Mexican immigrants, there's little chance of Congress acting this year, since even top administration priorities like health care and climate policy are moving slowly amid heated partisan debate.

If anyone were serious about the Illegal Alien Problem (which is a National Security Threat), then a larger scale version of President Eisenhower's successful Operation Wetback would be initiated. 1/4 of force consisting of US Military, US Law Enforcement, States National Guard, All US Transportation Assets, US Intelligence, US Contractors, etc would secure the US Northern and Southern Borders. 3/4 of the force would perform a sweep from the Northeast - Southeast to the Northwest-Southwest. With US Military Tribunals (no ambulance chasers, aka "lawyers"), US Intelligence verifies Citizenship. All transportation assets (including USAF, USN) used to immediately deport. Those that must be temporarily detained will be in a detention center like the Texas facility (three rows of razor wire, and tents, fed cheese sandwiches).

It also should be mandatory that lawmakers should home some plain horse sense.

No one likes us
I don't know why
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try

lol Glad someone appreciates Randy Newman

Wm. Sanders - Karzai is an ungrateful wretch,

You really believe that, it was President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke that were spending Billions of USDs of Aid and nothing was being done nor built. President Karzai requested that General McChrystal investigate them, then they started yelling to the International News Media, "Kazai Corrupt" and gave the Al Quada and Taliban the Strategic Asymmetric Warfare Goal of undermining the government of a US Ally. This is how General McChrystal got on the sh!t list of President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke with them demanding that General McChrystal be fired. After President Obama made a deal with General McChrystal to tender his Letter of Resignation (what he did was NOT "Insubordination", it was his Duty to inform the US Public as a last appeal to prevent the unnecessary death within his Command, as indicated by his US Congressional US Military Commissioning Certificate, that makes all US Military Officers the Representatives of the silent US Citizens of the US Military). President Karzai requests General McChrystal's replacement General Petraeus to investigate President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke. General Petraeus gives his Investigation Report to President Karzai, the next day President Karzai demand that all Aid Organizations (managed by Eikenberry and Holbrooke) account for every cent of Aid Money spent or leave HIS Country. President Obama's Political Appointee Eikenberry tenders his Letter of Resignation. President Obama's Political Appointee Holbrooke has heart failure and dies on the operating table at Pakistan.

Wm. Sanders - and nation building is just money and manpower down a rathole.

Tell that to the United Nations. As both Iraq and Afghanistan have been/are UN Nation Building Missions.

Wm. Sanders - The Taliban may try to take charge, but if they harbor terrorists, lets just carpet bomb the place with nukes, or moabs...

The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban are the Terrorists, as they do not want Afghanistan to return or rebuild back into a "Little America" like it was before the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban destroyed everything "Western", "Modern" or Non Islamic.

The USSR 40th Army attempted to carpet bomb Afghanistan with more aircraft (including specialized USSR Aircraft for Afghanistan) than the US Currently has, as well as more bombs than the US has and Chemical Warfare. Did not work very well against the 1980s Pro US Afghan Muhajeen and US (US Military Training Teams from Germany) as the majority of Afghanistan is mountains with many old mines, mineshafts, tunnels, etc. that are natural bomb shelter even against nuclear weapons.

If you are the Sanders from ROTC (nickname Colonel Sanders), a very long time ago, Fort Lewis, let me know. (you know what I have been doing (my posts), what have you been up to). if that is you, fill in, "if you can't tap dance................................................".

I know of a person who received a letter from David R. of the Tri-Lateral commission in 1976. And, Mr. David R. wrote that he was going to have Ronald Reagan elected President. Ronald Reagan was "The Golden Son" from California. And, George HW was C.I.A. and his father Prescott was an importer. If this is all true who is the puppet master or who are the puppet masters?

Always I know a guy who knows a guy. Never "I" got a letter,,,, Publish the letter, black out the names of the not so innocent and post it. Otherwise, it sounds like B.S. to me. Oh and don't give us the old they might "disappear" line, put up or shut up. If this is going on, grow a pair.

johny, keep living in fool's paradise.

If that person had that letter today they would publish the letter and do more than publish. But, the constituents of the United States are aware of the effects of the few who think they are nobility. Mother Theresa was nobility, she took care of the poor in India. The elected officials think they are nobility. Are they taking care of the poor? Our country is in debt and the middleclass will not last. Who will congress tax next?

There is a possibility that the "Super Congress" will be given suitcases and assigned flights to mysterious destinations and work off the US debt. A new deal of lap tops and lap dances.

I am not trying to offend anyone, I am being sardonic. I am not happy with the current state of affairs in the United States.

zardari there are people who have money who hate everyone including their own being.

Nicodemeus 1946 some of the people did get hit.

your one f--ked up person , enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our soldiers are they DOING THEIR DUTY.

They believed the lies told by Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld and did not realize that the GOOD of American idealism could be corrupted by American greed and stupidity.

Vietnam was based on lies and greed. I did not think that its stupidity would happen in my lifetime.

Instead our soldiers have discovered that there IS NO SANTA CLAUS and that our government has lied again.

Obama's mistake is that he wants to resolve the problem without destroying our government (try Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld for war crimes and violating the US constitution) or our military which is dependent upon Halliburton.

For our dead soldiers, it is a no-win proposition.

@whosaid

Those soldiers are violent individuals who were doing what they wanted to do. They died happy, and their people are apparently the type who are proud of their little murderers

You're the first person in years to tempt me into earning my first suspension from Newsvine for. However, you are not worth the calories I'd burn by typing out an appropriate response. So instead, I wish you a short but happy life and request you never post here again.

@whosaid

you know that in impoverished towns in the united states recruitment rates for the armed forces are through the roof? in a dying former rail town near my city, the army is literally the only path to college or a career for kids from poor families. of course there are gungho a-holes in the army, but your characterization of troops as murderous monsters is so small minded and judgmental. you must also be aware that national guard troops (you know, those *monsters* who help during flooding/tornadoes/hurricanes/etc) were also sent to afghanistan. those guys are older, have families and children and friends and coworkers who love them. there are over 100k troops in afghanistan right now, are you fit to judge the motives behind each and every one of them? you need to come down off your high horse and join the rest of humanity in evaluating individuals by the content of their character, and not the color of the uniform they're wearing.

Jym Allyn,

you keep screaming Halliburton, do you even know that there are over 3,000 US Contractors (US Civilian Employers, Jobs).

You want to cut the US Defense Budget by 50%, eliminate the hundred million very expensive US Civilians from the employment of the US Military, throw them on Unemployment and fill their positions with cheap US Military Personnel like before President Clinton's Cut to the Bone Reduction of Forces of the US Military that created the niches for the expensive US Contractors.

"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump.

For Those of you that wrote attaching me"

I may be young,but I have common sense over emotion...

which makes me at 19 a girl with more of a hope for my country than you so-called men or women! I also I don't need to bad moth and use foul language to express my self!

...Fact! "we show love,sympathy and support for our troops(( By having the fight for a honorable cause and not for lies and wealthy greed)) Fact-(( by sending them in to harms- way and making up lies and fighting the people trying to help and honor them is not a ((complement)) -You People are not patriots or a solution also none of you are out there fighting...

Your whole generation is, "a bunch of spoiled emotionally charged

un-educated sheep, whom believe what your leaders sale tell you!-"Cowards)) the all who think and act like you)) Last reality check! Those boys are not over there dying for democracy or your freedoms!!!

Last going to collage getting a degree in being an indoctrinated fool ,does not make you educated!

No body ever came here to attack us because we were free!

@whosaid - as a veteran of Deseret Storm I feel terrible that I didn't die doing what I like; beinga bullet stopper, you sap.

Were you even alive during Vietnam.

The problem with Vietnam was no matter how many Battles the US Military Won, the US Politicians lost the War.

And Historically Conventional Warfare automatically loses against Asymmetric Warfare. The majority of the US Military is Conventional Warfare since US Congress loves investing in the US Military Conventional Warfare Equipment built in their States, instead of the long term investment in the individuals of US Military Asymmetric Warfare.

A lot of you are like a virgin, telling everyone what sex is and feels like.

Happy Camper-606890 - Absolutely tragic. And in a losing cause. Afghanistan isn't a nation like Western, or even Eastern. It is a collection of tribes where people are loyal to their families and clans, not the central government.

The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban are the Terrorists, as they do not want Afghanistan to return or rebuild back into a "Little America" like it was before the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban destroyed everything "Western", "Modern" or Non Islamic. Afghanistan was a Little America of the 1960s to 1970s before the Taliban.

I totally agree! If they want to keep fighting then let them, that's all they know and we cannot change them!! My nephew is in afghanistan right now and I am scared to death for him! BRING OUR SOLDIERS HOME!!!!!!

Tinas jessie - My nephew is in afghanistan right now and I am scared to death for him! BRING OUR SOLDIERS HOME!!!!!!