It's who is doing it. When adults molests a child the child feels powerless, like they are responsible. When another teenager taunts you, causes the same feeling of shame triggered by the molestation, violent reaction can result. I am not saying the kid is blameless, but you have a useless argument.

Unfortunately, many people still view gayness as unfavorable, despite the 'legalization' of it in some states. It was not however, deemed legal to sexually harass and taunt another person with it...especially others who may be offended; or even sickened, or have gone through abuse that's now revisited through the actions of someone 'outted' and completely beside themselves because of governmental 'protection.' Sad, but the gay boy initiated this tragedy, and paid dearly. Now, we get the cries of gay sympathizers on the boards who have zero sense or compassion for a kid because the kid's not gay. Sure, murder is not the answer, but so is NOT playing with fire a sensible bit of advice when interacting with other people.

Perhaps we forget how we thought and reacted when we were childern ... this was a fourteen year old child .... brought up in a world of contemporary violence... where the not so subtle subliminal message is violence is the answer.

Violence is not the answer ... but we all have to learn that ..it's not "natural" to be non violent when threatened ... but a "learned" social behavior ..

The article says: "In cross-examination, a prosecutor asked Csorba why she didn't report the abuse to police. "I was going through my own abuse, and I wasn't going to do that to my brother," Csorba said. She said that books on Nazi youth and videos on shooting at McInerney's home belonged to the defendant's older brother. She also testified, as did McInerney's half-brother, that the defendant had been molested by a cousin."

Wow! Dysfunctional family or what?

This is the source of the teenage shooter's rage. He has been brought up in a sick, violent family and that's how he deals with life because that's the way he has been taught to deal with life.

He shouldn't be tried as an adult.

this, in my opion, falls on the adults that have been around this 14 yr old that day and all the days that led up to this event. i believe the old adage "it takes a village to raise a child" is still true to this day, unfortunately people are so afraid to get involved that it has destroyed the very fabric of society

This is a classic example of people who ....gosh, I can't find the right word. The teacher and administrator need to be severely reprimanded and demoted. Of course, the teacher's union will most likely prevent any punishment. And the half-brother, that Aunt...this family, what a piece of work.

Charging this boy with first degree murder and hate crime charges as an adult is ensuring this boy will be lost.

I'm usually much more long-winded than this, but there just are no words to describe or adequately convey how reprobate and base is this whole affair. There is no one, NO ONE who judged rightly in this. This was 100 percent preventable, if anyone cared to intervene. If this is California, the sooner it slides into the ocean the better. Hopefully the noble minded ones can swim and like Nevada.

This whole case is an example of dysfunction. Both families, both kids, the principal of the school, the teachers who did not recognize/report the bullying on all sides, the group home King was placed in...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.O._Green_School_shooting

Who was teaching King (the victim) about boundries and risk to self when expressing fringe behavior? And it is fringe behavior. Plenty of openly gay persons do not express themselves via makeup/butch apparel in schools or the workplace.

Would you teach your kid that hes got a right to hit on boys, or would you teach him "look son, I know you have this desire but there's a lot of people who dont want to know and someone may punch your lights out if you do. I want you to be safe."

But then, King wasnt being protected by his parents, he was in state custody at the time of his killing.

This is a tragedy for both families, the classroom full of kids that witnessed this killing, the teachers who's hands were semi-tied by a principal who did not comprehend the danger this student was putting himself in.

it's someone elses problem to fix the cause of the kid's death (the school? social services?) but its the courts problem to deal with this under-aged killer.

though i do advocate equal rights for all genders, sadly i gotta agree with some of above/below posters comments that the boy generally lite the fuse that ensured his death... in this case, the bull was a angry under-aged kid and the matador, a really foolish kid... :/

So bullying can go both ways...

Both of these kids were failed, by their parents, by their school, by all involved. Murder is never the answer, violence is rampant in our society. The killer needs to be punsihed for a long time. Sadly, the prison system we have will finally destroy this young man, and another tradgedy looms for him. Sick and sad.. There is much blame to go around here.

michelle,

"Both of these kids were failed, by their parents, by their school, by all involved"

I agree there is a lot of blame to go around. What I would like to have is more information about exactly what was going on here. The article simply said a gay boy was parading around in front of this boy in makeup and high heels while the other students laughed. What was going on? Are children allowed to dress that way in school these days? Who were the other children laughing at? Were they laughing at the straight boy or the gay boy, and why were they laughing at all? How did this situation develop to begin with? There is so much the article simply does not tell us.

Derek "And that includes our right to our sexuality and privacy in our homes. HOMES... I said."

I call bull sh!t because I know you arent talking about hetero-sexuality when you are typing this. just gay people need to "keep it to themselves" right?

you arent for freedom, just your own.

As for the age old excuse of "the gay teen sexually harrassed me".

Dear jebus, if every woman on this planet murdered every man that sexually harrassed us women, there'd be no men left.

Let me know if you still like that arguement and find it valid, and i'll call all the women to arms.

Mickey - since when is wearing high heels and some makeup a horrific crime, or hell...even threatening?

I am a woman, I and grew up wearing mens jeans and mens shirts to school.

no one was threatened by me, no one said anything...no one cared.

why should anyone care if a boy wears girls clothes?

how pathetic are people these days?

seriously, i mean...you'd have to be pretty sad and scared about who you are as yourself to care about what someone else is wearing?

its not right that this boy might have encouraged others to laugh at this kid accused of killing him, but damn...that happens every single day to gay kids.

we dont grab guns and solve our problems that way.

This gay kid knew what he was doing and was in the wrong.

Killing is wrong. Debating the circumstances around it is the occupation of bored people.

Absolutely, Jessica!! I could not have said it better myself! Any guy who gets obsessed with another guy's sexuality needs some help.... or a boyfriend =)

Brandon was sitting outside a classroom where his dad was having a parent teacher confrence. Larry was strutting back and forth knowing Brandon couldnt get up from the chair. The laughing children were Brandon's friends laughing at Brandon, which was feeding Larry even more. The v-principle saw what was going on and how mad Brandon was getting, so instead of telling Larry to knock it off, she pointed/wagged her finger at Brandon and said something to the effect of, "larry has the right to do this".

Jessica, there is a thing called conformity. It comes in various forms. I do not believe it's inherently bad for men to look like men. Any male who wears high heels and makeup is looking for trouble, no matter how you want to dismiss it, including derision or ridicule of those who'd notice it and do not react as you want. That's simple reality, and it won't change. Period.

Killing is wrong. So is sexual harassment. These are kids. Trying a fourteen year old as an adult is also wrong.

The typical teenager does not have the same mental, physical or emotional capacities as the typical adult. His brain is not yet fully developed. His reasoning, his judgment and his grasp of consequences are all less sound.

And I think it's fair to say that neither of these boys qualifies as a 'typical' teenager -- the circumstances of their lives would put them much more at risk for dysfunctional development.

What both of these boys did is wrong. The adults in their lives failed to recognize (or do something about) the circumstances that led up to this. I find the concept of white supremacy abhorrent. But a 14 year old boy should not be held accountable in the same way that his father should have been held accountable!

Wow, everyone seems really keen to defend the shooter. King did not cause this to happen by joking around in drag. Yes, the shooter came from a broken home, but this does not make his reaction acceptable or predictable in the slightest. Many come from broken homes and never go this far. And who knows what he did to King leading up to this to provoke King's behavior (which wasn't really sexual harassment if you ask me)? I think people are generally biased toward one kid for being gay and are therefore finding it easy to make excuses for the shooter. That makes me sick.

From these comments, I think the forest is being missed for the trees: that California is prosecuting this boy as an adult for a crime done at 14 years. Have they lost all sense of perspicuity?

Does anyone remember when boys (and girls) were allowed to fight things out without threats of sexual harassment charges? If these boys had been allowed to scuffle they wouldn't have had to shoot.

Kids are gonna fight. Let them do it before it gets to the point of handguns.

"He said he did nothing about the situation because the school administrator walked up and saw the same scene. He said he assumed she would take care of it.

Saenz said that in hindsight, he thought the encounter "appeared to be sexual harassment.""

And how long do you think it would have taken for one of the school officials to step in if it was the gay kid who was being harassed? About 2 seconds is my guess.

Not only is it ridiculous that he is being charged as an adult it is absolutely ludicrous that they are charging it as a HATE CRIME. You have school officials as witnesses saying the gay kid was harassing him... he didn't kill him simply because he was gay. Chances are he would have killed anyone who was harassing him that the school officials refused to do anything about.

Seems pretty obvious that the school officials feel that gay kids shouldn't be taken seriously when they harass others, or they just think it's funny, or what is more likely is they are afraid to discipline the gay kids because then they themselves will be accused of harassment. Whatever the reason it seems pretty obvious that the parents of both parties have a good case for a lawsuit.

I do not adhere to some assertions that homosexuality is something we are born with. I consider it either a chosen or learned behavior and lifestyle rather then a "predetermined condition" There is no reason to argue with me concerning this belief.

So when did you "choose" the "behavior" and "lifestyle" of a heterosexual?

You're right: there is no reason to argue with you, because you are WRONG.

Absolutely. I'd be suing the school, the administrators, and the district. The ONLY way to stop the idiocy that is happening at our schools is to make the school district change the way they do business. The only way to do THAT is to make it cost the district money. Sue until the district bleeds.

blame the school? while the school could have done more, there is no reason to think that this episode would end up in a kid killing another kid.

it's really hard to believe that some of you seem to be saying it was okay for this kid to go off the deep end and kill larry, just because larry was prancing around in heels and make up. yes he was obviously trying to make brandon uncomfortable, but it certainly is no reason to kill larry! he does need to be tried as an adult. had larry lived, maybe he or the school could have been sued for harassement or not stopping it. this is a civilized society, we don't just use killing force when we get pissed or someone makes us squirm.

Cynic-537088

From these comments, I think the forest is being missed for the trees: that California is prosecuting this boy as an adult for a crime done at 14 years. Have they lost all sense of perspicuity?

48 States have laws on the books that allow juveniles to be tried as adults. The laws are written to punish for the seriousness of the crime not the age of the offender, although several states are looking to rewrite these laws.

So, alleged sexual harrassment is grounds for murder now? I'll be back, I have some former bosses I need to go shoot.

Give me a break.

Charging this boy with first degree murder and hate crime charges as an adult is ensuring this boy will be lost.

Nah, he'll be sent to his local Criminal Enhancement School. There he will get free room, board, medical, and dental care for a long period of time (on the tax-payer's dime), and once he's finally released he'll be a much more hardened, hateful, effective and dangerous criminal, poised to strike again. Don't you just love our "corrections" system?

Bring back dress codes.. All males dress the same, all females dress the same.. Take away their individual identities and let them find that at home or when they are out of school.. No sarcasm or attitude in my statement.. I live a block from my kids high school.. Tired of seeing boys with the crotch of their pants to their knees, girls with their breasts hanging out.. I support uniforms..

As for killing this boy over taunting the other kid, it's simple bs the school should have put a stop to it. Yet we are going to allow him to use his childhood as his crutch for doing so, BS as-well.. I grew up in a toxic home and decided to do right instead of wrong with what i went threw..

I don't care if the child is white,black,gay,straight,green,ugly,cute,princess,prince no child has the right to torment another..

If I had showed up to school in drag, they would have sent me home and told me not to come back until I changed into something appropriate. If I had made sexual advances towards another male student, I probably would have gotten my ass kicked. But I would still be alive.

One kid's dead, and another's going to prison for a long time. Isn't our new politically correct world so much better now than it was before? The kids seem to be adjusting so well to the new curriculum. Isn't it wonderful.

1. No 14 year old should, under any circumstances, be tried as an adult. Brain development isn't complete until the age of 25, when the frontal lobe (which controls impulse control) finishes developing. Therefore, trying a 14 year old, who is over 10 years away from full development, as an adult will not reduce crime among juveniles, nor will adult sentences to anything to help these kids. This boy will end up an animal, after being raised through his most impressionable years by the CA penal system. Trying kids, especially kids this young, as adults is nothing but a very week attempt by the legislators who write/pass these laws, to try and appear tough on crime, and an excuse for the public to shake off any guilt/responsibility/sense of duty for turning a blind and un-empathetic eye to the unfortunates in our society. It's so much easier to call him a monster and lock him up, than it is to confront issues like child abuse, our culture towards sexuality, and our society that touts violence as an answer.

2. I wonder what the outcry would sound like if the "sexual harrassment" part of this was boy on girl, or girl on boy. Somehow, I don't think everyone would be standing up for the shooter so much. Even take the sexual aspect out of it. If this had been bullying of some sort, without a "gay" issue involved, this young shooter would be listed right next to the two boys from Columbine, the young man from Jonesboro... Afterall, they were bullied/harrassed too.

3. The underlying issue here isn't "sexual harrassment", it's the discomfort and fear our society has towards homosexuals. Why is the fear of homosexuality so great in this country that it inspires this reaction? Not just from the shooter, but from some of these posters as well. Where is that mind-set coming from and how do we fix it?

4. If this victim was bullying, there is no excuse, but there is also no excuse for murdering him. And no, I do not agree with men having to dress like men, or certain gay people having to accept/adapt to people being uncomfortable because of something they're doing that really has no effect on anyone but themselves. It's called TOLERANCE. I am tolerant of all others, so long as they do not unreasonably harm myself or others. Cross dressing falls into that category.

This just goes to show how far out there CA has become. School administrators and teachers witness sexual harassment and do nothing. Then they charge a 14 year old as an adult.

In CA, apparently, the teenagers are not the only ones without fully formed brains.

So where are all the "tough on crime" conservatives now?

toasty- they are making excuses for this particular murder now.

d j nodnis,

Thanks for answering my questions! You appear to have been present when this happened. Your clarification helps me get a better understanding of what was going on.

Oh wow, so the next time a straight female hits on me I can go shoot her becouse it angers me to be hit on by women, then claim crazy or abused. Yes I am a gay male. This has nothing to do with sexuality, its an unstable kid who took the chance to do what he always wanted too. Dont execute him, but he should be researched and studied the rest of his life so we can find out how he ticks. To let him off will be releasing a person who already got away with it once, and knows how it feels.....

@FarginBastige

You are an adult and understand the consequences of your actions in a more complete and culturally significant manner.

This kid was 14, and most 14 year olds still run to their room yelling hate at their parents for preventing them from doing x dumb thing that teenagers are known for.

Yes, but at 14 a child knows that murder is wrong and against the law. He should be tried as an adult.

I don't think this was a case of sexual harassment as it was of bullying. The teachers and administrators who saw this should have done something to stop it. The trouble is that is when the lawsuits start flying. I worked in a high school and I can tell you whether you do or don't something some parents calls their lawyer. You're never right. There are a lot of things coming into our schools beside guns and drugs that are disrupting the learning environment of our schools. If you try to stop anyone of them somebody gets a lawyer. In most schools just enforcing any kind of dress code is almost impossible. I saw a principal threatened with a law suit because he would not allow a 17 year old boy come to school looking like the love child of Alice Cooper and Marilyn Manson.

He [the shooter] has been brought up in a sick, violent family and that's how he deals with life because that's the way he has been taught to deal with life.

I don't think he should be tried as an adult.

I also think the dude in high heels is a sicko bully. While it is not right to murder someone because he is gay and is teasing a straight boy or coming on to the boy - WHY IN THE F DID THIS HIGH HEEL DUDE taunt this kid in this first place?

On Newsvine, we see this every day. Where gay people and their supporters call other people names if the other people do not agree with every thing that the gay people and their supporters agree to.

It's not right to kill. It's also not right for gay guys to put straight guys in a spot like this.

The 14 year old should have walked away. HOWEVER, HE IS 14 YEARS OLD AND THE GAY GUY WAS TICKING HIM OFF, HE COMES FROM A VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL, VIOLENT FAMILY, AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED.

I don't think he should be tried as an adult. He's not an adult.

3. The underlying issue here isn't "sexual harrassment", it's the discomfort and fear our society has towards homosexuals. Why is the fear of homosexuality so great in this country that it inspires this reaction? Not just from the shooter, but from some of these posters as well. Where is that mind-set coming from and how do we fix it?

I agree with a few things you said EXCEPT THIS.

It has ZERO to do with fear and EVERYTHING to do with testosterone.

Many straight guys are LIVID if gay guys come on to them. Fear?

Are you kidding? More like - beat to a pulp instead of fear - WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

I think the High Heeled Dude was sexually harrassing the 14 year old.

The 14 year old had a violent reaction because 1. He's straight and 2. He's been severely abused himself.

I agree that the 14 year old SHOULD NOT BE TRIED AS AN ADULT.

WHY IN THE F DID THIS HIGH HEEL DUDE taunt this kid in this first place?

According to multiple other articles, the kid in the high heels taunted the murderer as retaliation for months of bullying he experienced at the hands of the murderer. It also appears that the high heeled kid was bullied by others. It seems to me that the school failed to stop bullying and taunting at several points. Both kids came from less than ideal backgrounds, to say the least. It was a bad situation from months before the shooting occurred.

Nobody should be bullying anyone.

What ticks me off is my own Congressman who introduced a teenage bullying bill.

THE ONLY GROUP PROTECTED ARE HOMOSEXUAL KIDS.

HOW DISCRIMINATORY.

I would support the bill if ALL students were covered, otherwise this law is discriminatory. I hope it does not pass.

Nobody should be bullying anyone.

I agree.

I would have to see the bill you are referring to to determine if I would agree with it or not agree with it. However, I would add that, yes, ALL kids should be protected from bullying.

karen, listen to what people are trying to tell you, larry was harassed and bullied by the murderer for months!! him dressing the way he did was a way to say "screw you". i don't care if he is 14 or 40, he killed someone as a premeditated act, he does not deserve to ever see outside of a prison ever again!!! he does need to be tried as an adult and for a hate crime, he killed the kid because he was gay! hate crime! of course i have seen a lot of your previous posts on other vines and it doesn't surprise me you would support a cold blooded murderer, since he only shot a "queer" kid, and anyone who has ever read your hate filled posts against gays knows how you feel about gays. i imagine you would be singing a different tune if it was a boy who was dating the murderer's ex-girlfriend or something like that.

It's interesting as some pointed out that conservatives are not calling for the death penalty in this case. It's also interesting that liberals want to lock the kid up and throw away the key, but are not necessarily calling for the death penalty. Are most 14 year olds who are accused of murder tried as adults or is this case different because the victim was wearing a dress?

If he had killed many like at Columbine, I'd be inclined to go along with the death penalty. I don't buy into the whole hate crime thing. If you kill someone, you obviously hated them at the time. This kids hormones were kicking in, and he didn't know how to handle being taunted by another kid in drag. I don't know what my reaction would have been at that age. The other kid would probably still be alive, but he wouldn't do it again.

karen, listen to what people are trying to tell you, larry was harassed and bullied by the murderer for months!! him dressing the way he did was a way to say "screw you".

I REFUSE to try any case in the media EVER AGAIN.

Casey Anthony is the reason.

And frankly, why should I believe YOU or ANYONE ELSE for that matter?

I do have a valid point that some gay people and their supporters like to harass other NV posters whenever those posters do not agree with their opinion.

More information reveals that MANY TEACHERS were concerned about the gay kids' taunting. He taunted more than one boy. That does not justify murder but frankly, what is the point. The taunts were to boys "I know you want me."

Not everyone is gay.

From the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0811-gay-student-20110811,0,923167.story

So many teachers and administrators are concerned about lawsuits that they end up with their hands tied. If a student doesn't have a parent or mentor to help them negotiate the silliness that is public school administration, they can end up in trouble. No exuse can be made for murder but if this was a male/female interaction, the gay child would have been suspended. If a boy walked up to a girl and touched her and said "you know you want me" he'd be hauled up to the office and suspended or some kind of punishment would be given. It's a sad state of affairs when administrators can't keep order for fear of lawsuits.

Sad.

Karen, thats only one part of the story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.O._Green_School_shooting

He was bullied from the 3rd grade over his sexual orientation.

The school failed BOTH boys but only one brought a GUN to school.

Let go of your homophobia and hate.

Wikipedia IS NOT RELIABLE. I NEVER read it. PERIOD.

Why use Wikipedia when there are RELIABLE SOURCES. That's even a show. I posted a REPUTABLE ARTICLE. It has motivated me to complain about the prosecutor and SCHOOL.

The point of the LA Times article I linked is well summarized in this post I quote below:

No exuse can be made for murder but if this was a male/female interaction, the gay child would have been suspended. If a boy walked up to a girl and touched her and said "you know you want me" he'd be hauled up to the office and suspended or some kind of punishment would be given. It's a sad state of affairs when administrators can't keep order for fear of lawsuits.

Sad.

The whole point of this teacher's testimony (in LA Time article) was that the gay kid was SEXUALLY HARASSING THE BOYS IN THE SCHOOL. SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS AGAINST THE LAW TOO.

The gay kid's actions are mitigating circumstances for the kid on trial. This kid is a juvenile and he should NOT be tried as an adult. I DON'T think this is a hate crime.

how can you possibly say this wasn't a hate crime. he told the cops that he shot the kid because he was gay. and there is no mitigating circumstance that excuses murder. just having read previous posts of yours, karen, you obviously hate gays and would never support their side, even when murder is involved.

I guess Karen's earlier post that says:That does not justify murder

slipped past you? Seriously, I can't understand why you or anyone else would try to lie about another poster when the evidence to the contrary exists no less than four posts above yours. Karen hasn't showed any homophobia or hatred of gays.

What am I doing? You're not going to undestand this post anymore than you understand Karen's. You have an agenda. Carry on.

How rude John Martin.

Felicitie pointed out that I never said any such thing.

I do not think it is a hate crime and I don't care if you think it is. Had there been NO provocation, then I MAY think it was a hate crime. There IS provocation here by the gay student.

I do think it is a crime. I do think there are mitigating circumstances. I think the kid is too young to be tried as an adult.

As has been pointed out - YOU have an agenda.

and there is no mitigating circumstance that excuses murder.

Talk to a lawyer because I am not wasting time but I will say that mitigating circumstances have an influence during the sentencing process.

AND I HAVE A MESSAGE TO GAY PEOPLE WHO ACTED LIKE THE GAY KID DID - TAUNTING BOYS BY SAYING THE BOYS WANT THEM - STOP IT.

You will NEVER change anyone's mind to accept you with THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

f- i HAVE read many of karen's responses to people on other vines, and yes, she is a complete homophobe, she is against any form of equality, so it doesn't surprise me she feels this way now.

k- what is your message to the straight boys who constantly bully gay guys and then get freaked when we fight back? this is what happened in this case, or didn't you know? and btw, i would never try to change a mind like yours, it is so inflexible in it's stances against gays it would be a waste of time.

Go Karen! I agree with you. There have to be rules and yes....gay boys have to follow them too. Cross dressing ISN'T a GAY right. It's weird and the rest of the school population shouldn't have to be distracted by it.

I don't doubt you have misinterpreted her othe posts as much as you have the ones on this thread.

It doesn't surprise me that she feels no amount of taunting justifies murder as she previously stated.

As I said, carry on.........without me. I see no purpose in justifying your agenda by responding to you.

for one i never said that the gay boy was in the right, i was pointing out that the straight kid bullied and harassed him for months(with his buddies) and larry's(the gay kid) response to it was dressing up and teasing him. was that right, no, did it mitigate his murderer's actions? no way. brandon(the straight kid) went home that night and thought it through, then decided to take a gun to school and shoot larry, so it wasn't even a crime of passion, it was pre meditated and cold blooded and done because the kid was gay. the poor bully couldn't take the teasing he obviously enjoyed giving out, poor thing.

as far as any agenda i might have, i don't have one. live and let live. but i will call a spade a spade and not a dirt turning implement. and there really isn't any other way to interpret previous hateful remarks aginst gays and gay rights that karen has made in the recent past.

and karen- the whole "gay panic" excuse, does not mitigate this pre meditated murder and hate crime. i hope he IS tried as an adult and spends his entire life behind bars where he belongs.

John Martin - What? I saw my name and flew by the posts because the only close minded person here is YOU.

I came online to post a link to a discussion about a group who want Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street to have a gay marriage. I've never seen so many comments on this site.

And Felicitie is right - you obviously want to pin a label on me so I ignore you.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/08/10/group-pushes-to-let-bert-and-ernie-get-married-on-sesame-street/#comment-169107

Maruco and Felicite - Thank you for your kind words and civil discourse.

At this point, kids should be in uniforms so there is no room for bullying on that front.

now on THAT point i absolutely agree. kids are way too concerned with they way they look rather than school.

and no i don't want to pin labels on anybody. but i have read a lot of your posts where you talk about gays getting "special rights" and also about how wrong homosexuality is, in nature as well as the bible, so pardon me if i misinterpreted comments you have made.

Karen...no problem. I might disagree and suggest a straight jacket for some people who are psycho's....other than that...I'm pretty stable and try not to bash people personally. You are okay in my book!

Karen: you are misinformed about wikipedia

It is more accurate than you realize. Because there is nothing humans love more than pointing errors by other humans, this thread is an excellent example. Becuse wikipedia is edited by the community at large it has a higher number of editors of its content.

Karen: you are misinformed about wikipedia

No I am not. I ONLY use primary sources for information.

What is a primary source? Actual laws. Actual words from an authority NOT what somes thinks that authority said. There are too many to list.

Wikipedia is anyone saying whatever they want. I'm more discriminating than that.

and no i don't want to pin labels on anybody. but i have read a lot of your posts where you talk about gays getting "special rights" and also about how wrong homosexuality is, in nature as well as the bible, so pardon me if i misinterpreted comments you have made.

Read what I have to say about people interpreting what other people are saying above in 1.70.

WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT I BELIEVE? You are in no position to characterize me or summarize my position on anything.

STICK TO YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND YOUR OWN IDEAS. Leave ME out of it.

Just to emphasize that most people don't care what anyone's personal view of another person happens to be. It muddies the conversation and it's pretty boring to boot.

But Karen, Primary sources are those people involved. The 14 year old boy, The lawyers and judge and secondary sources would be including the immediete families. while using LA Times as a primary source does nobody justice except the LA Times and it is NOT a primary source

Only the boy, the lawyers, witnesses and judge are primary sources. Everything will be spun.

Until the case goes to trial and depending if the boy is triad as an adult we might see PRIMARY sources

LA TIMES makes for a terrible "primary" source and should be ashamed of the press they are squeezing out of this 14 year old killer. But we love shock and awe so it's ok.

And keep calling the LA Times 'primary' at least they won't listen when someone calls BS

A mistrial was declared today. I knew it. This kid was 14 when it happened and he should have been treated like all 14 year olds.

I know the jury had a hard time with his age too because 7 voted for manslaughter and 5 voted for murder and they were deadlocked and they would not change their minds.

The prosecutor should have tried him as a 14 year old and the case would be done.

Now, because the prosecutor f'd up, the county will have to pay double for another trial.

He was 14. He should be punished as a 14 year old.

James with the number - a mistrial was declared today.

And by the way, I did not quote the LA Times, I quoted the teacher who was indeed quoted in the LA Times and the teacher's own words IS a primary source.

Come back when you can play with the big boys.

I realize I should clarify a tad more. The teacher PROVIDED TESTIMONY. Apparently the judge believed this WITNESS' TESTIMONY was valid.

Judges determine what evidence gets into the courtroom.

Quoting a witness is quoting a primary source.

CHAR-3498751:

How much "taunting" can a 14-year-old gay guy in a dress actually do? (Seems more like a scene from some farcical comedy to me.)

Also, please don't include ALL of us in your blanket expression of "we".

Hope you feel better soon.

I reread the article trying to figure out what was what and still can't quite figure it out.

I guess I'm trying to figure out why to a teacher mind you, just the act of walking around with woman's clothing and makeup is considered "taunting". It tells me that the not only the kid, but the teacher had issues with gays/transexuals..

Only from the view of intolerance does one feel themselves taunted by some one who doesn't hurt them but might be wearing different clothes, is obese, has red hair or a different skin color.

Kids being kids is half the problem in our society! I'm not saying we should go back to making children work in coal mines or factories, but there was a time when children were not taught to have a sense of entitlement, constantly given toys and indulgence and attention, smothered in love and told they're special no matter how badly they eff up. Back when you grew up on a farm and had to help with the chores or there wouldn't be any dinner that evening, for you or your parents, you felt a certain degree of obligation to your household and were not constantly wanting to indulge your every whim. I don't think we should exactly go back to that, there are some pretty serious downsides and a lot of advantages to our current method, but we need to figure out where the baby was in all that bathwater we threw out, and try to get the best of the old and new systems, which I think would include helping children to develop more of a sense of responsibility and maturity than we're currently requiring of them.

Agree.

We don't have to go back to the old ways which were destructive in their own way but the pendulum has gone too far the other way and we need to bring it back to centre.

You have too free availability of guns and a constant stream of games and movies which tell them over and over that shooting people isn't a big deal.

@Itgranny,

So your point is that a person of color can rub their skin on another person; or an obese person can sit on someone? What's the connection to singling out a young person--or anyone, and tease them with what some find a despicable act? Why are people acting so dense nowadays? You may not tolerate what another person could...or are you suggesting that according to gays and the government, we all had better accept taunting, sexual harassment, and heaven knows what else? Your reasoning is not good, and please don't mix apples and oranges when you mention other people that society STILL ostracises because of their afflictions! Being obese, a different color, or having red hair is not the same as acting like a third set of chromosomes exist in the world. Gay people have severe issues I think, and they also do negative things to others because they're essentially unhappy about ego issues. My opinion...so respect it as you wish others respect your activities and opinions.

LPCD, you make my point beautifully. When you feel that when a male dresses up woman's clothing is a "despicable act", the problem is not with the cross dresser, it's with you!

It seems from the article that the gay kid was 'strutting' around in front of the killer. Apparently a bunch of kids were laughing while the killer sat on the bench looking angry as the gay kid strutted back and forth in front of him.

It sounds a lot like the kids knew how uncomfortable the killer was with homosexuals, so it was funny to see a gay kid intentionally flaunt his extreme flamboyance (dressing like a woman is pretty flamboyant) in front of him. If you remember what it was like being a teenager, if you show any sort of opening for things that bother you - other kids will exploit it. Hell I remember some homophobe friends in high-school, and to mess with them I would throw on the gay 'lisp' and say perverted things to them because it got them all angry and made other people laugh. High school ridicule has always been a part of growing up and has a tendency to acculturate people and get them over some of their anti-social quirks (or exacerbate them in this case).

Either way, it's a sad situation. The killer was probably extremely embarrassed about the whole situation. At 14-15 years old you can really rage out on someone, you have nowhere near the self-control of an adult. I'm not saying what this kid did was ok, but I pity him.

"How much "taunting" can a 14-year-old gay guy in a dress actually do?"

He can do enough taunting to push another young guy who was raised in a violent, dysfunctional family over the edge and be murdered.

The gay boy shouldn't have harassed the other boy but that doesn't justify murder. He definitely chose the wrong guy to harass though.

The whole situation is a sad, sick tragedy. Schools could do society a big favor by stopping it on campus and helping young people get help with abuse happening at home.

@ Itgranny,

You have just earned yourself an "F" on reading comprehension today! Now get in the corner...and put on this pointed hat I got for you!! : )

NICE, itgranny!

I'm sorry, but even if this kid was embarrassed because a gay man was bouncing in front of him, I have no pity for him. Insecurity is no excuse for murder. The way I look at it, it's one less white supremacist on the street. If anybody in this world, shouldn't be allowed to get married, reproduce, or adopt kids it should be white supremacists, NOT gay people.

Here is another reason (one I had not thought of before now) why I'm an advocate of school uniforms. Polos and or button down shirts and pants and shorts for all. I thought schools had rules concerning wearing clothes that are disruptive. Guess CA must not. At least it can be shown that not all bullying is by the straight kids. The gay child was bullying this child, and everyone paid the price for it.

I'm sorry, but even if this kid was embarrassed because a gay man was bouncing in front of him, I have no pity for him. Insecurity is no excuse for murder. The way I look at it, it's one less white supremacist on the street. If anybody in this world, shouldn't be allowed to get married, reproduce, or adopt kids it should be white supremacists, NOT gay people.

Well I'm staunchly pro-gay rights, but I still pity the kid. He's 15 years old dude. At that age you don't know what's up from down - much less have the reason and logic to have a fully formed opinion about homosexuality or racism. He's a kid.

It's wrong, no matter who it is, to try and pick on someone's insecurities. I'm not saying it's ok to act-out violently when someone does... but just keep in mind he's a young, dumb, f'd up kid with a crappy family. Putting this kid in prison with adults will only serve to f' him up even more. You think he's racist now? Just wait until he gets out of prison.

At 15, you are aware and know perfectly well that murder is wrong. We have to put him in prison with the adults. He can't go to juvie and be out at 18. He needs to serve his punishment.

I didn't mean to imply that having pity for the kid was wrong. I just personally don't feel sorry for him. Sorry if I offended you, Shuklack!

Yeah I agree he knew it was wrong, but I'd argue at that age someone is not capable of controlling their emotions like an adult. When I was 15, pumped up with new testosterone, thinking that every day was the most important day of my life.... stupid little things like being embarrassed seemed like the end of the world. It's a different mentality all together.

I just remember what it was like at 15 and how quick my temper was is all. Thank goodness I had a good support structure around me, without it - I have no idea where I would have ended up.

Here is another reason (one I had not thought of before now) why I'm an advocate of school uniforms.

YEAH! What you said!

I thought schools had rules concerning wearing clothes that are disruptive.

Freedom of "speech", I suppose. Besides, even if they did, I'm sure the teachers and administrators long ago gave up caring about the students. Welcome to the third world.

One thing is for certain though, this taunting couldn't have been an isolated incident. And the other students standing around and laughing?

I have long ago realized that there are people who react different ways to a world seen as hostile. Some become angry and are the big middle finger sticking up to the rest of the world. Others go to the other extreme, and develop a victim mentality that ensures they never move above the hostile worldview.

SOMEBODY NEEDS TO INTERVENE!!! IS THERE NO UNDERSTANDING LEFT IN OXNARD, CALIFORNIA???

Levi777 We have rules concerning dress at our schools and it is enforced. Kids will make poor choices concerning clothes worn to school, (been doing it for decades) that's why we need rules.

Totally agree, someone needs to intervene. I hope this school has learned a lesson. No Teacher should have allowed this behavior to continue if it was done in their presence, regardless of the orientation of the person exhibiting the bahavior. All sexual bullying is wrong.

I think it's sad that an adolescent boy who's uncertain about his sexual orientation suffers months of bullying, then when he finally becomes accepting of his sexual orientation and uses that newfound acceptance to confront his primary bully, that bully plans the murder and carries it out the next day. Where were the adults in this situation? If you've read any other previous articles on this case, it's troubling that both boys were abused and/or neglected for years. Lawrence King, the murdered boy, was only taunting Brandon McInerney to demonstrate that he wouldn't meekly accept being bullied any longer. The 14 yr old boy chose to end the "taunts" with a gun. It's just a sad case all around. Maybe if the adults in this country would defend those who are different than the majority of us we'd have much less of these unnecessary, hateful incidents.

What does it matter if someone's sexual orientation is choice or determined before his birth? Do we only accept that which we agree with? I dislike the color orange; should I bully anyone who wears that color?

I dislike the color orange; should I bully anyone who wears that color?

YES! The color orange is what's wrong with 'Merica today and why we're goin down da tubes! No morality in the filthy, disgusting color orange!

The circumstances might match first degree, but age and circumstance should be taken into account,ie He was pushed to this point, he did not make it there on his own.

Holding a 15 yr old in his situation on first degree,adult, is ridiculous(not saying extreme punishment should not happen)but did he kill because of the taunting,or did he kill because the kid was gay ? This is the question on the hate crime.

I hold the teachers and adults in this case as accountable as the teen. This kid was already filled with rage and anger. Ive taught my kids from an early age, do not mess with others for any reason, never underestimate the outcome,kids are inherently mean,sometimes you can pick on the wrong one.

Not justifying the crime by no means, but the circumstances of this kids life should surely have bearing on accountability.

@ Levi; Here,Here.

Char-

Why didn't somebody do something to stop it? Somebody did.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011444/Brandon-McInerney-planned-shooting-gay-classmate-Lawrence-King-crush.html

Shuklack, it appears you were right. King (the victim) had endured months of bullying about his sexuality and he finally had had enough and stood up for himself.

Jherek Carnelian "How much "taunting" can a 14-year-old gay guy in a dress actually do?"

Apparently he can do enough to get himself killed.

cleanhands, i read the article. Wow! I am more convinced then ever that the accused should not be walking the streets. He's a cold blooded killer and needs to be locked up and kept away from society forever.

Oh yeah. He brought a gun to school for the sole purpose of killing that kid. That's, by definition, first-degree murder. If he can plan out a murder, then he's old enough to take the punishment as an adult. Again, I'm sorry for the way the kid was raised. Unfortunately for some people, you just can't choose your family. But it's still no excuse.

@ itgranny; What an ignorant statement. We can not start holding teens that have been abused,not taught morals in the home,or taught consideration for others not like them, as accountable as a sane adult, much less if he was raised around white supremist.

Locked up forever?! Thank goodness you are not on the supreme court. You have no idea if this kid has deeper issues,ie chemical imbalances, nueroligical issues,which I would bet he does. But yet you are ready to condem him for life?

He was pushed to this point, the mind of a 15 yr old is far from a developed cold blooded killer, unless maybe if you are in a cartel in Mexico,or some armed gang in Africa,but very rare in mainstream America to have a 15 yr old cold blooded killer, of his own attrition.

You give no bearing to his past, he did not choose his family, he did not choose to be abused,or taught to hate others, this was pressed on him, can you not understand how this would lessen the accountability, compared to some middle class teen with a normal life and caring parents coming in and shooting up the school? Can you not see the contrast of accountability.

The moral of the story here is not to tease others, especialy after a decade of teens being killed,or killing themselves over bullying,cyberbullying,regardless of who is doing it.

Seems to me this kid had no one to turn to, and took matters into his own hands, with the mind of a tormented teenager,not a sane adult Get it?

Coral: Just because he had a rough life is no excuse for murder. I can see taking it into consideration during sentencing. But he should at least have to do 15 years for this. Remember, he wasn't innocent in the bullying either. The victim had been dealing with bullying for months! You didn't see him go and kill anyone, did you? The victim also had a rough family life - he didn't go put a bullet in someone's head, did he? No.

Coral taxi, do you think throwing this broken kid in the federal pen for 5 years is going to fix him?

this kid had 2 days to think over the right/wrong of the situation (from the time he threatened to the time he carried out the shooting) and still chose to shoot the other kid. This kid could have waited for another confrontation, but rather he shot him in the back of the head in science class. This kid could have been satisfied that one bullet in the head would have accomplished his intention, killing the gay kid, but no, the kid looked at what he did and then shot him again in the head.

Personally, i'm not big on life sentences. I believe they are even crueller than the death penalty (especially in our prison systems today). But that's not my call. This young man needs to be locked up for a time long enough that he'll never be a threat to anyone again.

That being said though, there also needs to be some justice for him. Those that broke him should be equally responsible and need to be doing some hard time too.

@ it and clean; In no way am I excusing this kid for murder, nor would I have a problem with a lengthy sentence(even 15 yrs),time for redeeming,repentance,and education. The path he chooses now in jail, he will be,and should be held accountable for.

My problem with granny is she is ready to condemn this kid for life, whithout taking into account his circumstances at home he really had no control over. You(granny) seemed to have softened your stance which shows you can be open and not hard headed.

My point is due to his circumstances,being charged as an adult is not fair to the teen.

The victim was not raised in a white supremacists house either,not a fair comparison. I do not believe he will be thrown into the pen,he will be offered many programs at his age, what he does now is all on him.

The teacher sounds like he has a problem with homophobia. The child had a right to wear a dress. If the other child felt intimidated because the child exercised his right it is on the other child. This is sick. I';m gay. According to the staff at the gym I go to, they feel taunted when I flirt with other women. Men can flirt with me all they want and the staff sees no problem. So there is a fine line between taunting and someone getting angry at a gay parade, for instance.

@ it and clean; Congradulations for creating a lynch mob mentality. Everyone is concentrating on the fact that this kid was gay,not the fact he was taunting a potential time bomb. Nor has it been found whether it was the taunting or the fact he was gay that got him shot, it sounds to me more like the taunting got him shot more than being gay.

You are all assuming it as because he was gay,did he use any gay epiphets during the killing?(you do not know do you) Did he say anything to show he was homophobic? I think not,this is a kid who had had enough,and took actions in his own hands. Wrong as they might have been, the community(teachers,parents,bullies) are just as accountable.

Quite right Coral Taxi. Bullies used to be corraled in school. Now they are given free reign as long as they say they're sorry. Used to be cleaning up the toilets for them. Now it's a hand slap and send 'em home to their mommies.

@ Brenda; A boy wearing a dress to school is just asking for it,with the mentality of teenagers,teenagers do not think as adults. You are assuming this tormented 15 yr old,or any 15 yr old for that matter, has the same reasoning capabilities as you and I as adults? That in itself flaws your comparison.

Also I am sure this was not the only openly gay kid in school,if he targeted other gays in the school you would have more merit charging a hate crime,but his focus was on one child,not gays in general.

Coral: read the link I posted above. The victim had been dealing with bullying for MONTHS and he had finally had enough. That's when he started to wear the dress and the makeup, etc. It doesn't matter if the kid was gay or not. A lynch mob mentality? Don't be melodramatic.

A boy wearing a dress to school is just asking for it,with the mentality of teenagers,teenagers do not think as adults.

I suppose by this rationale, every girl who wears a mini-skirt or a tube top is just asking to be raped, too. Coral, just quit while you're ahead. You're digging yourself into a hole.

And one more thing Coral. When the kid was arrested, he told the cops he killed the kid because he was gay.

Coral Taxi..... Would you feel the same way if it were say an 18 or 20 or 30 year old that had been raised in the same circumstances? Just because you have a crappy home life and horrible upbringing never gives anyone an excuse to do what the kid did. Many serial killers had horrible upbrings so should we have patted them on the head and said its okay we know you had a bad childhood and you are not responsible for your actions? I am not saying what Larry did was right but neither is murder.

@ clean; You can not compare a girl wearing a mini skirt to a boy wearing a dress in front of other teenage boys at school. The boy is going to draw negative attention,no matter what. Chances of girl getting raped for wearing a mini skirt to school slim to none. And if you think you are winning this argument,you are wrong,simply because you are wrong.

And where does it say he said that? Are we reading the same article,or are you making stuff up,please show me where he says that.

@ lesli; It wasn't so that is a moot point,he was 15.

Coral,

The odds of a boy wearing a dress being shot by a classmate at school... even less. With each post you sound more and more intolerant. Which was the cause of this problem to begin with. This victim was bullied by the shooter FOR BEING GAY, he stood up for himself (perhaps not in the smartest way, but definitly in a non-violent way. He hurt no one.) the other young man shot him and told the cops it was BECAUSE HE WAS GAY.

I agree that a boy this young should not be convicted as an adult, but your argument sounds suspicious to me. After reading your posts, I feel like, had this been any type of victim other then a gay person, your responses would be quite different. Brain development, the capability of young people to "re-socialize", and human grace/empathy, are the reasons for seeing young offendors in a different light, not their victims dress, as you state 2.32.

The mini-skirt argument, was EXACTLY on point. The type of dress, chosen by a minority, regardless of its "social appropriateness", is neither a reasonable/logical instigator of a violent crime, nor a valid reason for sympathy towards the perpetrator. The violent behavior, whether rape or murder, is the sole property of the person comitting the crime. To use it as any type of an excuse, to ANY extent, is justifying the violent act.

@CleanHands -- Did you read any other articles??? Or did you just read the headline on the dailyonline??? I read 3 or 4 articles that "quoted witnesses" testimony. The shooter didn't THINK the boy had a crush on him; He KNEW IT or was LED TO BELIEVE IT by the deceased!!! The homosexual kid was the harasser! All you read on dailymail was the PROSECUTION CONTENTION!!! I suggest you "read" it, again.

Do I have to do all the work? I did it this morning. Look it up, for chrissakes. I'm not your secretary. There's tons of articles on this case. All you have to do is type it into google. It's as simple as that.

ItsRick: So because he was "led to believe" that the victim had a crush on him, THAT makes it okay to shoot him? Are you insane or did you just forget to take your meds this morning.

Coral: Yes, the comparison is perfect. You said that if the boy is dressed as a girl he is just asking for it. By that rationale, the way a person dresses should dictate how they are treated. Therefore, a girl dressing like a prostitute deserves to be raped. It's the exact same thing. You just can't see past the end of your nose.

@ Sarah; First off the person using the mini skirt example is out of context,on what I meant. My point was that it would draw negative attention,and possibly get you beat up, to wear a dress to school as a boy.This you can not deny. Not that he deserved it because of his action. The mini skirt example is trying to say, that I am saying they deserved it because they wore a mini skirt,or dress, definitely not what I meant, they are trying to turn my words around for popular opinion.

@ clean; You still can not show me the quote out of all your articles you have read where he says he killed him because he was gay? Im not saying he didnt,just show me dont tell me, as my old boss used to say.

"And one more thing Coral. When the kid was arrested, he told the cops he killed the kid because he was gay".

O.k Show me where it says this,and I will call it a hate crime. It seems it was not until the taunting that the kid really did anything physical,he had known he had a crush on him,as you say and did not like it ,just as many other guys would not like it at that age. But no true action until the embarassment and harrasment. This is fact not opinion.

I believe the taunting and embarassment were more of a motivator than just him being gay, this is not the first case of this kind,and it is usually younger people who do not know how to react properly,that resort to violence, because they feel violated.

Why are you so angry? grrrrrr.. It is not my fault you can not prove your point.

@ Clean; If I was trying to prove something as hard as you are, I would of copy and pasted the quote long ago. We DO not know where it is you do,help us out. I am not one of those "well she shouldnt of been dressed that way guys" I am one of those he shouldnt been dressed that way at school guys,it would only lead to trouble and it did. Boys in our state tried to wear dresses to school, they were suspended, it is an unwanted distraction.

Do I personally as an adult care if you wear a dress as a guy,ummm no, wear what you want,if you are a good person I will be your friend til the end, dress or no dress.

Do I as an ignorant teenage boy care if you do, yes, the intellect is not there in teens, but resorting to violence against things that you do not understand,or make you uncomfortable,or you feel you are violated by, yes they do care,and they will react ,it is very prevalent among younger men,hence the reason for hate crimes.

@Coral. I would have copied and pasted it if I would have known people would be too lazy to do a little search. I read at least 10 articles on this case this morning. And I don't remember which specific article it was. Apparently what happened is the kid admitted it to the cops, but the judge will not allow it into court because of I think the fact that he didn't have a parent present or something. Regardless, the judge declared anything the kid said after he shot King to the cops off limits. As a matter of fact, the defense attorney tried to ask a police officer about it on the stand if mcInerney seemed to be remorseful and the judge found the attorney in contempt of court. That is found right here:

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/07/06/Witness_McInerney_Threatened_to_Shank_King/

Now, I'm heading out now. But I will make you a deal. And you don't even have to do anything. I'm going to be gone overnight for a little reunion with some college friends. When I come back tomorrow, I will find the article and post it for you. I just don't have time to weed through these articles right now. I'm already running late and have an hour drive and I'm literally sitting here with just a towel on my wet hair! :) It's there, I know it is. I saw it. I know you don't have any reason to believe me. But then again, I don't have any reason to lie either. I don't know any of these people.

P.S. I think hate crime legislation is a bunch of crap. All crimes are hate crimes.

Not saying it is not true,will wait til tommorow. Have fun!! Wherever you are going.

Okay Coral. I'm back and thank you, I did have fun! I went through the articles and even some new ones. So, I did read that the kid said to the cop he killed King because he was gay, however, it was not in the actual article, it was a comment to the article by a person who lives near Oxnard, CA where it happened. So it was my mistake, there's nothing as far as proof goes to substantiate it. Although there must be a reason the judge ruled the boy's statements to the police are off limits. Anyways, my bad, my apologies, and definitely my mistake on that one.

@ Clean;No worries, Im sure the kid was "anti gay" If he said this then it was a hate crime, if he did not then it leaves to question if the taunting was more of a motivator,leaving reasonable whether it was a hate crime.

The timing of the crime was after the recent taunting,as no true physical altercations occured before then, at least none they mention.

I feel like Perry Mason, God rest his soul. lol

Although there must be a reason the judge ruled the boy's statements to the police are off limits.

Maybe it had something to do with him being a minor and not being read his Miranda rights.

wow. you're definitely in line to get your own reich.

.

Anthony-1078253:

I agree with you absolutely.

Turrets?

Yeah he could have just pretended to be his friend then lured him to a cliff area and gave him a push...

Weapons aren't the problem. The person using it however may just be the culprit.

read the article - he is being tried as an adult. He could get life without chance of parole due to the addition of hate crime charge.

Rick2361,

Previous articles on this case have shown the murdered suffered months of bullying by several other kids for his sexual orientation. Would you have defended the murderer so vehemently if it had been the gay kid gunning down the bully?

In the end, both kids made poor choices...

Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to taunt the straight kid afterall. And obviously killing the gay kid was a poor choice.

I did not defend the Bully as you seem to think If you read my comment I stated he had a lame reason for shooting the victim and questioned why if the bully came from a home with abuse Why didnt he kill his abuser at his home AND MERELY suggested that the teacher should have been more involved and yes both their lives are destroyed I do not know why you obviously did not read my comment correctly MNPat and it doesnt matter to me what his sexual orientation is

MNPat and Mean Gene you both need to learn to read First of all the bully is going to jail for the rest of his life and his life is ruined and it could have been avoided possibly by the adult teacher introvening, and as for me defending the murderer I did not I made a comment on how lame his excuse was no matter if he was taunted by the gay kid He simply could have ignored him and the fact you are telling me the bully did this before makes it worse for all because that means the adult teacher definitely should have done something

What ever happened to the good old days when you just kicked someone's ass when they got on your nerves?

Anyone who needs a gun to settle his business is a puss.

Looks like the gay crossdresser guessed right.

Agree but it should make those of us with rational minds clear that this guy/person was very much an instigator who had some measure of reciprocity coming in a deserved fashion. No, not murder, but a good ass kicking could have put an end to his bullying behavior. He was not a pure victim in this case.

Wait a minute. How do we know that the murderer didn't instigate it by spouting out homophobic rhetoric? As another poster above pointed out, it could be a case of the boy letting out that he had a problem with homosexuals and the gay kid was out there saying "I'm here, I'm queer. Get over it." If someone I know says something snarky about gay people, I'm always the first to throw it back in their face and I'm not even gay!!

Clean hand - We know he didn't, because the teacher who was there at the time said the victim was the instigator.

wryview,

The teacher who was there at the time is a witness for the defense and perhaps partially at fault for not intervening in the incident. Earlier articles about this case show that the victim was bullied for months before he decided to confront his tormentor. That confrontation got him killed.

Wry, only for this incident. Chances are the accused bullied the victim previously and not with adult witnesses around ....

Agree but it should make those of us with rational minds clear that this guy/person was very much an instigator who had some measure of reciprocity coming in a deserved fashion.

Why? The article never mentioned the teacher saying that any words were exchanged. How is walking around, even in a dress, to be considered "taunting" or an act of instigation?

Having had a troubled childhood is not a valid excuse for committing murder.

Having been taunted by some gay guy parading around in a dress is not a valid excuse for committing murder.

That's strange... I didn't realize there were any valid excuses for murder.

*Goes to read up on the laws.*

Hmm hmm.... looks like there aren't any after all.

Excuse? Perhaps not, but they are mitigating circumstances and serve to suggest the incident was not entirely of his own making.

Perhaps in your rush to judgment you should pause and apply a little humanity.

Seriously... why didn't the punk just kick the Gay kids Ass if he had a problem with him? Why "KILL" someone?? Anyone?? Unless they either feared for their lives or were mentally warped to being with (in which case life in prison seems like a pretty fair argument being as he "planned" the murder.) You don't want someone like that walking around in society.

Sane human beings when humiliated or tormented FIGHT the person that's harming them, they don't murder them. There's zero self-defense in this case.

Let me see now, if it had been the gay boy that killed the other boy for harassing him it would be ok? Because the other boy had caused extreme stress and made him go insane.....give my a break. When will everyone see that gays really don't have MORE right then anyone else. King was abusive and harassing the other kid and who knows what else. He was 14 and King was 15 and he was never told what he was doing was wrong? No the buy should not have been killed and HE WASN'T KILLED FOR JUST BEING GAY. The photo has that in the caption....he was a bully and was harassing others. I would have gotten mad too.

Larry - why don't you realize that nobody is making the arguments you're claiming? No, it wouldn't be alright if the gay kid killed someone for taunting. No one is saying he suspect killed the other kid just for being gay, it's pretty clearly a result of harassment. That doesn't make it ok. It wouldn't make it ok the other way around. Someone, an adult, or even just one of the other kids with a backbone, should have stepped in and ended this, followed by a long discussion with the both of them.

Larry, the victim had being bullied for months about his sexual orientation by the murderer and other kids at school. Read more about it. This article doesn't come close to explaining the situation. Finally, the victim had enough of being taunted and turned the tables on the murderer who then told another kid in class that he was going to shoot him. The next day he stood up in class and shot the victim in the back of the head. He then looked around the class, looked at the dying kid on the floor and proceeded to shoot him in the head again. This kid is a monster.

Even if the youth that was being taunted administered a "good ass-kicking" to the boy in the dress, that still would have been a poor response. Problems aren't solved in this fashion or by murder.

The shooter did bully the victim, to quite an extent, then shot him when the victim stood up for himself through the actions listed in this article. There's a link posted in the thread above that tells you more of the story.

Sure it is.

Most people turn their anger against everyone but those who actually deserve it - it's why the abused grow up and abuse their spouses and kids in turn. Very few people actually go and kick their father's ass. A lot of bullying stems from that. All kinds of psychological reasons, once you've become a victim you tend to perceive that person as having authority over you (and in the case of parents and older family member, they often do).

So I guess it must be ok for me to go murder all those people in my past who bullied and harassed me growing up, by your brilliant line of thinking. Since you are giving me a free pass can I make sure the police name you as an accomplice?

LIke I tell my kid, the only thing you control is your own actions. Say someone is blatantly gay and walks in front of you with heels and makeup on. You move. You're telling me there was only one place to sit in the entire school? This gay kid did not, say, sit in his lap and put his arms around the straight kid. You can ignore someone, move, close your eyes, read a book, etc.

This seems to me to be the territory of straight men. If a woman walks by in heels, a short skirt, and makeup, she was teasing him and it's ok to rape her, especially if she's not wearing underwear. She was asking for it, right? I would guess that this straight kid, since he had no inclination to rape the gay kid, was justified in killing him.

I also tend to think of humiliation and bullying as physical events more than visual events. Someone beating you up and taking your lunch money, grabbing you and shoving you in the dirt, etc. Walking if front of someone does not constitute bullying or humiliation. As for the sexual harassment, then most women would have the right to kill those who say, pull their bra straps, pinch their rear, have to fend of sexual advances from their bosses, whistle at them as they walk down the street, etc.

If you don't like what you are looking at, and you can move, you move. If you are physically prevented from moving, you escape and get adult help. Murder is not an option. This straight kid needed help. It is a shame his aunt didn't intervene when she saw him being abused. It is a shame that he was sexually molested. However, the gay kid did nothing to him that deserved anything close to being murdered.

@Lynchmob-

Judging by your name, I'm guessing you ran with the groups of people who went around beating the living hell of people you thought were "taunting" you.

It's called being able to ignore people like every other sane person. Walk away. Only resort to violence when it's absolutely necessary. You're using the same mentality that people use to blame rape victims.

@Christina:

You wrote this:

This seems to me to be the territory of straight men. If a woman walks by in heels, a short skirt, and makeup, she was teasing him and it's ok to rape her, especially if she's not wearing underwear. She was asking for it, right? I would guess that this straight kid, since he had no inclination to rape the gay kid, was justified in killing him.

I think I understand what you are trying to explain, but I also think the analogy is flawed, since it is premised on the straight man being teased rather than taunted by what for a straight man would be a potential romantic partner, at least in a general sense, which is one of the illogical aspects of the analogy . . .

[NOTE: To be a clear as possible, I would not view this as an instance of the woman "asking for it", since I am strict adherent of the rule that "No" means "No", but I certainly would enjoy the scenery at a safe distance, and I might give the lady a wink or some type of non-threatening and gracious nod of approval, although I would be more inclined to be vastly entertained if there were underpants involved, since I have great appreciation for a stellar and quite fashionable pair of Vanity Fair® high-tops, especially when accompanied by Manolo Blahnik® high-heel slippers with open toes and cute ankle straps, since from my perspective the general rule is that the more one leaves to the imagination the better, and based on my interpretation of the rules at the dawn of the early-21st century, I want it in writing and notarized first. In other words, the lady needs specifically to make the request in writing well in advance, and there can be no alcohol or other drugs involved, because I presume nothing, and if anything is going to happen, then I need to be convinced (a) that it is a mutual decision made by sober consenting adults and (b) that there is at least some possibility that I might be spanked for being a naughty boy . . . ]

The more correct analogy is a straight woman being taunted by a lesbian, except that in this particular instance rather than these being mature women, they are adolescent girls . . .

There have been several similar incidents over the past few years when various group of primarily adolescent girls taunted another girl by creating a fictitious boyfriend and flirting with the girl via the web and in at least one instance enlisting the help of adolescent boys, with the result that the girls being taunted committed suicide . . .

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/TheLaw/teens-charged-bullying-mass-girl-kill/story?id=10231357

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017330/Natasha-MacBryde-Coroner-slams-bullies-taunt-suicide-girl-15-death.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier

From my perspective, I think the key difference is the "right brain vs. left brain" or "women are from Venus; men are from Mars" thing, where one might suggest that (a) girls with low self-esteem respond to being ruthlessly taunted by internalizing their responses while (b) boys respond to being ruthlessly taunted by externalizing their responses, although I suppose that this might be reversed in some instances, where for example either (a) a straight boy was ruthlessly taunting a gay boy or (b) a straight girl was ruthlessly taunting a lesbian girl . . .

[NOTE: Grammatically, I think that "gay boy" and "lesbian girl" are not entirely redundant expressions in this particular usage, but there probably is a better way to express the general idea. The primary problem is that "gay" can be used in the context of "lesbian", which precludes "gay adolescent", since in the general case a "gay adolescent" could be a boy or a girl. So, while not being optimal grammatically, this works and conveys the important information without being completely and totally redundant, although it is a bit problematic in a grammatical sense . . . ]

Summarizing, when the tables are turned, it appears that in at least some circumstances our current legal system provides nearly no punishment for girls who ruthlessly taunt other girls and by their ruthless taunting cause the taunted girls to commit suicide . . .

When making comparisons, it tends to work best to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, which in this particular instance is not the same as a teenage girl teasing a straight teenage boy or a straight woman teasing a straight man . . .

I might have fewer problems with the analogy of straight teenage girl ruthlessly taunting a gay teenage boy, but only if there were another probably straight teenage boy involved, where the situation essentially would devolve to a rivalry between the ruthlessly taunting straight teenage girl and the ruthlessly taunted gay teenage boy for the real or perceived affections of the probably straight teenage boy . . .

I could see that happening, although only if there were a lot of vastly complex prerequisites and so forth . . .

Nevertheless, the more likely scenario at the dawn of the early-21st century is that the ruthlessly taunted gay teenage boy and the ruthlessly taunting straight teenage girl would become allies and "best girlfriends"; share cosmetic, hair, and fashion tips; and then would work cooperatively to trick the probably straight teenage boy into a ménage à trois, which if it happened could play several ways, at least one of which includes the probably straight teenage boy totally freaking and then going berserk on the two "best girlfriends" . . .

In other words, what about the scenario where a gay teenage boy and a straight teenage girl join forces and devise a plot to trick a probably straight teenage boy into a ménage à trois that has the probably straight teenage boy participating in gay sex, as contrasted to what for a straight male would be the normal ménage à trois where only the ladies are walking on the wild side, which of course in the case of twin sisters probably is the ultimate "straight guy fantasy", especially if it involves sexy knickers, high-heel slippers, and Vicks® VapoRub® (a personal favorite) . . .

I see the poster, and I want to make this movie! :D

I guess the analogy that I was trying to get at is that gay men are feminized/female gendered in the way society treats them. If a woman/gay man "taunts" you in any way, it is ok to respond with violence, sexual or otherwise.

As for the emotional makeup of men vs. women, you are completely right. Women tend to cooperate and talk things out, men tend to physically react. Girls can be just as vicious as boys are, except that it tends to be sly and verbal.

So, in a way, I guess the gay male was provoking the straight male with a female-gendered tactic, and the straight male responded with violence.

What a stupid comment. It isn't okay to harass ANYONE, sexually or otherwise, but neither is it okay to KILL someone because they harass you.

The fact that a gay person could do this to a straight person with no consequences but if a straight person does this to a gay, it's a whole different story. The police are called, the aclu is called because they are picking on a gay person!

The kid is still WRONG for killing him though - that I do not agree with (although thinking about doing it ...)!

The world is getting so two faced it's crazy!

@Christina:

I agree generally, but obviously with the caveat that it actually is NOT acceptable to respond to taunting with violence . . .

The best strategy in such scenarios simply is to run away and hide, since doing anything else nearly never has a good outcome for everyone . . .

Of course, this is the mature perspective, and the problem is that adolescents are not always so mature in every respect . . .

As a bit of reference, I was a Psychology major for quite a while before switching to Computer Science, so these types of events are a bit intriguing to study . . .

Yet another possibility is that the straight male teenager might have had latent homosexual tendencies, which overall could have exacerbated his emotional response, which is the reason that I specifically mentioned self-esteem . . .

In other words, I would not expect this type of response from an emotionally well-balanced straight male who had normal or high self-esteem and was comfortable with his gender and sexual orientation . . .

Among other things I am a musician, and I was playing in musical groups in nightclubs when I was in junior high school, so there is very little that I have not seen or about which I do not know at least enough to navigate safely in a gracious way, and one of the realities is that there are some folks who are firecrackers with very short fuses, and the only guaranteed strategy when you encounter them is to exit as quickly, uneventfully, and invisibly as possible, because such folks are ready, willing, and able to berserk at any moment, and if you are in the vicinity when they berserk and you then have no possible exit path, then all you can do is berserk yourself, which is not a good situation for you, regardless of the outcome . . .

From a Freudian perspective, it is the vastly surreal scenario where William Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet" is condensed in such a way that all the parts are played by two deeply disturbed actors, so instead of being (a) "Romeo and Juliet" it is (b) "Romeo and Romeo, Juliet and Juliet, Romeo and Juliet, et al. Simultaneously in Real-time But Without Dr. Drew, Dr. Phil, and a SWAT Team", really . . .

Really! :-o

Agreed--both of these boys had serious problems, and it was the perfect storm. Bad/abusive parenting, lax school administration, a very insecure straight kid, and a gay kid that had been bullied and was fighting back in the wrong way.

Some people are just plain psycho and anything will set them off. You just have to walk away.

Maybe there should be a It Gets Better campaign for all high school students, gay or straight.

I think this is a good reason why we shouldn't charge 14 yr olds as adults, because this is the kind of reaction a pubescent teenager has (well, violent), especially one suffering thru possible abuse at home. They don't have an adults expected control over their emotions. I cringe seeing that phrase "tried as an adult". He's not an adult. He may not BE a monster, he may have simply done something horrible out of anger. It doesn't make him irredeemable. I would think getting the kid some help would trump making him spend his life in prison over an incident of rage. He wasn't randomly shooting passerbys here.

IDK, no good answers.

@Anthony-1078... -- I get the sarcasm! Yeah! It must be OK! A protected class!!! The homosexual PROVOKED the other kid!!! Now before all of the pointy head academics on here start howling; I'm NOT advocating the little "cross dresser's" death!!! I'll bet all of my dollars against a doughnut this was DAILY, SYSTEMATIC HARASSMENT that the ADMINISTRATION ALLOWED. When that kid woke up each weekday he knew what he was probably "in for" when he got in school. I haven't seen any ACADEMICS discuss questioning; What were the gang of kids, the spectators of THE SPECTACLE, who were witnessing the escapade LAUGHING ABOUT??? Perhaps, they were part of the harrassment??? Ever heard of BULLIES??? This article is but a "snippet" from a trial ABOUT REAL LIVES and three quarters of you have it "all figured out!" You have it all JUDGED based on a few paragraphs here at 6:00am EDT. That's right! I said it! Liberals judge!!! I think I may be risking suspension, again, because, evidently, someone will JUDGE from this post that I am a wingnut!!! Back in my day if a boy was parading around school "in drag" it would have been because they were rehearsing a school play or some such thing or Hallowen and it was meant to be a spoof; NOT a homosexual parading around "in drag" AT SCHOOL!!! The administration is complicit!!! THAT is based on what I have seen at my daughters public school here in New York! --------- I have plenty more. If I don't get kicked off of here I maycome back on... --Lest I forget; This is a very RARE headline. One of the few that is not liberal bias. There WAS taunting!!!

I wasn't aware that standing up to bullies warranted summary execution if you happen to be gay. That sounds like a special class alright, but one with fewer privileges.

Toasty: just being gay is enough to warrant summary execution.

just kidding !

Apparently you're right.

From Columbine to McInerney, harassment or being the victim of a bully is no justification for violence, (aside from immediate physical self-defense). We should not make the slightest excuses for it.

And as adults, we should stop setting examples of intolerance, and inappropriate or violent behavior.

If the reports of domestic abuse are true, and nobody intervened on McInerney's behalf prior, we should find it sickening and incredible that THIS was tolerated.

MS85 your judgement concerning me is way off base. It is ignorant asses such as yourself that give other plain ole asses a bad wrap. I did not advocate this kids murder. Is it reading or just comprehension you have dificulty with. His behavior did deserve an ass kicking. I am truly sorry he was killed and I wrote just that. he is not just a victim here he was also the aggressor who lost his spot. the problem with him being a nut and not realizing it is, he didn't know whae he was going to run into a bigger nut.

@Lynchmob-2711... -- I'm right there with you on all counts!

@Anothony-1078253 Of course it is, because if it wasn't that would be discrimination.

I can't think of the muderer as the bad guy in this situation, I just can't. Especially since they labelled it as "white supremacist anti-gay beliefs". No ya morons he was driven to it! Not every crime done by a white person has to do with disciminating!

There are many people on this post that are defending the murdered guy just because he was gay. To them it is not about right and wrong. They only see him as gay, therefore whatever anyone else is or does doesn't even matter. His simple ability to like taking it up the arse "gayness" make him Divine. Stop the BS. gay people are not on some different plane of moral standards than straight folks. And, MS-85 wants to judge and bash me simply for/by this silly screen name I selected. Someone please tell me how discriminatory and judgemental that is. To be such a self-righteous liberal gay loving leftist, how does one explain their personal bigotry and demons? Gee I could have chosen Superman but I doubt that everyone would think I could fly or had x-ray vision. To you liberal wanna-bees, have fun, learn to laugh and joke and don't take yourself so seriously....trust me, no one else does, after you come across as such an ass.

To them it is not about right and wrong

It is precisely about right and wrong - and it's wrong to plan and carry out a murder. Are you advocating that this person shouldn't be held responsible for his actions?

His behavior did deserve an ass kicking

So Larry standing up to his bully and tormentor in a non violent way deserves a violent response? You really don't see how backwards this view point is?

I wonder if a homosexual was to murder a woman that made a sexual advance towards him could he try and use that type of defense. "The Power of the V, scared me your honor I should not be held responsible."

@ Trent: Your question is a bit inflammatory but also interesting. Homosexuals are badly outnumbered and oppressed at the moment, but it's entirely conceivable that one day THEY could be the majority, or at least a major force in society (much as women have gone from an underclass to semi-privileged nigh-equality in the past 150 or so years). While any degree of bullying doesn't equal "not being held responsible" at all, it can form a justification, and it might be possible to say that it should apply equally in either case. Food for thought....

I was just having a Harry Turtledove moment I think; alternate timeline event.

Granted if the brat did the whole taunting and harassing bit he was a total a-hole, but being an a-hole is not a legally accepted death penalty based crime.

agreed.

Just like every bitch that wears a mini-skirt DESERVES to be raped and killed.

Especially if it was a white mini-skirt after labor day.

Well, after Labor day, yes.

I suppose since this article did not say it we can assume the shooter was a person who never expressed anti-gay sentiment or bullied anyone and the gay 'victim' went out of his way to harass an innocent and tormented little boy?

They were both boys Jakrabt but neither of them were little.

True, Jherek. And both were bullies according to the article, very alike in many ways.

True Jakrabt but with the important difference that the gay kid harassed verbally and the straight kid turned to violent murder.

Just saying.

@Jherek- Yep. Have you looked at all these comments on this thread? Pretty hot button topic, wouldn't you say? It's just sad that these two 14 year olds could not have been helped before things got to this point. It's not just California- I read about these things happening everywhere. I'm almost 50 and I just don't remember things being this difficult at 14. Somebody somewhere is grieving an awful lot this morning over these two boys.

I am for one grieving for both boys, even though i detest the boy who murdered, I wish someone had been paying more attention as an adult caretaker and as a group of on the fly social workers (teachers.)

If they had maybe this could have been prevented, one boy would not have had his life cut short and one boy would not have his life in a state of torment and future dark hole that is prison.

Uh,...please enroll in an anger management class.

Also,..."unicorn milk"? THAT'S a new one on ME!

I honestly do not want to know where said unicorn milk comes from, as that may cause me trauma and then I could be excused to go out and kill someone. Right?

Yes it would be "unreasonable". See, the problem with people that say things like you is that they think OUR (yours AND mine) society belongs entirely to them and that they get to dictate to the rest of us how we should act. Sorry, you're always going to hit a brick wall there. Especially with me.

Don't "ours" me, bub. When I can have my society my way, you can have yours your way. Until then, you're damn lucky if finding others 'limp-wristed' and 'pathetic' is the worst that you have to put up with.

hwat, I've read your post about 3-4 times, and I still have no idea what you're talking about. Forced social engineering experiment? Unicorn milk? (sounds delicious, btw)

Unicorn milk? I think that's what Jesus was raised on.

This remarks is just so laughable that there just can be no other response but, Laughs OUT LOUD.

Trent in DC you must be an attorney because you have an extraordinary way with words! I'm guessing you are constantly convincing people to agree with your side, because you just have this keen way of writing that can relate to everyone. I am more than impressed and am actually at a loss of words in trying to describe your incredible skill.

Nice way to misplace blame. Millions of kids who grew up watching violent programming have yet to murder anyone. There is NO increase, in fact violent crime is down since the 70's & 80's. The prevalence of TV and internet news makes you perceive that it is more common (check the FBI stats if you will) because they inundate you with stories from all over the nation that you would not have known about before the internet.

The fact of the matter is some people are disturbed and some thing ( Taunting, a car backfiring, a jack-in-the -box, etc.) was going to set their crazy butts off at some point. Stop blaming one thing when so many influences go into making a killer.

D.P. cannot be applied to people who were under 18 at the time they murdered someone.

Executions for those 15 and younger when they committed their crimes were outlawed in 1988. Tuesday's ruling prevents states from making 16- and 17-year-olds eligible for execution.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4518051

The homosexual boy is the boy who was murdered. The boy who killed him was the one who was being abused by his father.

How is the school authorities to blame for allowing things to escalate?? At this point, placing blame doesn't matter. A kid is dead, and another is on trial for murder at age 14. He might as well be close to dead because his life will forever be scarred by this incident. Quite honestly, it's both families, the schools, the american culture of not accepting lifestyles, bullying, and more that facilitated what happened here.

Personally, I think if a school is going to have a "zero tolerance" against anything, it should be against harassment of ANY KIND~PERIOD! Kids are at school for the most part of the day, and I believe that the teachers, administrators, principal etc have an OBLIGATION to make it a safe place for all. NO ONE should be harassed.

Kids need to be educated on what harassment really is, and they should be required to take a refresher course at the start of each school year. For any kid who is proved to have harassed another, they should be required to get some counseling, as well as anger management class. These can be set up in schools as well. The parents should be required to help pay for these (on a sliding scale,according to their income), should their child have the need. SOMETHING needs to be done, yet in many cases, NOTHING is being done.

I tend to agree that the young boy was indeed taunted, stalked and provoked, although that does not justify the killing of another individual.

This 14-yr old kid (defendant) having been abused by the males in his family was no doubt traumatized by his relatives, and now by a school mate? Where does one go to be safe? to school? at home? Neither place was safe for this abused young man. The gay school mate was clearly in the wrong, and he does not represent the gay people that I know and love, in fact, he is (was) a scourge on the gay community.

Instead, it was a bad but not entirely unexpected adolescent response to being taunted, stalked, and provoked by a gay person, which is a very different matter . . .

The article didn't say that the murderer was stalked or verbally taunted. Based on the very minimal material in the story, it seemed that he just didn't like the fact that the gay teen was cross-dressing. That isn't provocation.

Seriously, it sounds like the victim was just standing up to the alleged murderer's bullying by trying to play on his homophobia.

A 15 year old kid was a "scourge on the gay community"? Seriously?

The universe is seriously twisted sometimes.

So you believe killing to get rid of a problem is the answer! Why do you think your pre-meditated choice to kill Brandon is any different than Brandon's choice? Oh ya I see the difference, Brandon was just 13 and you are an adult, capable of making a more rational decision.

Not mentioned in this article, but the gay student had been bullied for months before he decided to confront the primary bully by wearing female clothing and walking defiantly in his presence. Would you consider someone taking action against a bully to be a bully as well?

You do not know the whole story. How could Larry have been bullied for being gay for years when the year before the shooting he complained to the vp that a boy was coming on to him and that he was not gay? Wait for the whole story.

dj ... it is possible to be "bullied for being gay" even when one is not gay. Bullies are not renowned for their rational thought processes.

If you look at the hate crime laws in effect, they're based on motive, not fact. A person can receive a hate crime enhancement of their conviction if the reason for their violence was that they perceived that the victim was gay. It doesn't matter if the victim was, in reality, straight. It is still a hate crime.

I know a child who was bullied for YEARS (6+) for being gay long before he even figured he was gay. The bullying started in elementary school. You can be bullied for being gay even if you aren't at that point.

The true lesson from this story is that the school allowed the situation to brew for months and did NOTHING. The parents of BOTH children should sue the district for failure to provide a safe learning environment. The districts failure lead to the death of one child and the imprisonment of the other one. The principal should be fired and the teacher too that witnessed the last incident and still did nothing.

@Genenut -- A rationale post based on what we know from the article! Thank you! One should have to take an IQ Test to post on here. The people that "added" to the article bother me the most!!! I'm about to "pretend to know what happened" here. When the testifying is done I will decide if I understand what it has "shaken out." Many of the posters on here don't even realize they are "too smart by half."

tom- i agree that the judicial system has become far too ready and willing to try children as adults. excuse the term, but it's overkill.

It's deplorable that our legal system can find that one is an adult after a fact. Someone, somewhere need to push that to the Supreme Court. If one were in fact an adult, other options would be available to them

Tom, anyone can be a 'distraction' to someone else for any number of reasons. And are you saying that this kid should not be tried as an adult but a 14 year old "gangbanger" should? Please explain the difference to me.

Jak. Im saying exactly what I said. Distractions to learning should NOT be tolerated in schools. I will deliberately ignore your attempt to set up false equivilent. To assert that someone who is barely a teen should be held to the same standards as a full grown adult is totally ludicrous.

As far as I am concerned gang bangers should just be killed. They are a group completely against society. I know this is not civilized modern thinking, but it is mine.

retired, there are times when I agree with you. AT the very least, they're a LOT more dangerous than Japanese -American detainees and should be rounded up and put under armed guard in some camps in the west!

Tom, you are the one who introduced the example of a gangbanger. Based on your comment that the gay kid should 'NEVER have been allowed to parade around' shows that you have a personal bias against gay people and gay kids in particular. How can your statement carry any validity when you are not being objective? There are no laws that say a person cannot be themselves or as you put it "parade". It was not the gay kid's fault that his killer had an obviously pathological hate of gay people.

So, it's more acceptable to kill, if one is not a gangbanger, aka if the person is White.

I really enjoy it when people show up and comment on a story from a vacuum. This has been in the news for years; the kid who killed him said he did so because he was gay.

@Rick-881... --Speaking of from a vacuum! Did you read any TESTIMONY??? The homosexual kid was harassing the shooter because HE CAN!!! Another PROTECTED CLASS! A male history teacher and students testified that they witnessed the harassment and they saw the homosexual kid's behavior as sexual harassment. The history teacher also testified that he saw that the administration was aware of it and would "handle" it. There WAS taunting!!! One of the VERY FEW correct headlines I've seen!!!

One should be required to take an IQ test before being allowed to post on newsvine.

@Jenaan-- The DailyMailOnline ran the headline that the kid was killed because he was homosexual. In the article the only people interviewed and reported on were the prosecution and their contention. Testimony at trial fleshed out the ACTUAL situation!