If the earth is warming/changing due to man's crapping in his own feed trough, and most climatologists agree that is the case, then man has dug his own grave.

As a point of order......people in the midwest (which in my experience accept the reality of what is happening, whatever the situation may be including all the small red states too) usually think the south gets what it deserves in terms of warming.

I don't disagree with your message, but your association between political allegiance and being climate change deniers doesn't line up here.

Well yeah Brokin, that's because your sources only list the ones who oppose the concept. The scientific community as a whole overwhelmingly acknowledges the reality that humans are disrupting the Earth's climate.

Climate changes take tens of thousands of years to occur, so a little 100 - 200 year warming trend could just be a little blip and then things will go back to normal.

Brokinarrow ... this is exactly the point. Normalclimate changes do happen over thousands of years which gives the enviornment some time to adapt (animal migrations, plant population distribution heading North or South, etc.) It is the very short term nature of this current change which suggests it is caused by Man and the release of greenhouse gasses.

We are truely going to reap what we have sown if we do not start making some changes. Weather excursions such as this could be more common. Personally, I like the planet the way it is and I would rather not have to adapt to these types of events if we can prevent them instead.

brad ---- so, please enlighten us by sharing some of these changes YOU would propose.

The biggest change that needs to happen, if we want to cut greenhouse emissions, is an immediate change to nuclear power plants. Wind, solar, and geothermal alone cannot replace the amount of electricity we get from current coal-fired plants. If you really want to go all out (which I'm all for) we should pour money into fusion research. The fusion plants produce a lot more power and a lot less waste (also much safer waste) than current fission plants.

Here in Kansas we have moraines. For those who don't know what a moraine is, it's a pile of rocks left behind when a glacier starts retreating. Note that I said Kansas, which is about as far south as Washington, DC. These moraines are between 10 and 20 thousand years old. So, in the past 20,000 years, the earth has warmed a lot. But is that warming due to man's activities? What started the mini ice age in the 1500's and did man's activities end it? Was Greenland once really green or was that just some Viking real estate agent's marketing spiel? The climate changes over time, that's a given. But the transfer of wealth demanded by certain man-made climate change advocates is purely political. Making science a servant to politicians is wrong. A few years back, an Australian doctor said that most ulcers were caused by an infection. 99% of the learned medical community said he was crazy. As it turns out, he wasn't. He proved he was right and now it's accepted by those 99%. Science isn't about consensus, it's about finding the truth. And the truth is, we don't know and doing massive changes in our economic system because some people want to believe some "inconvenient truth" is also wrong.

Well yeah Brokin, that's because your sources only list the ones who oppose the concept. The scientific community as a whole overwhelmingly acknowledges the reality that humans are disrupting the Earth's climate.

You have some polls or graphs or studies to back that up? And also, just because a lot of scientists believe something doesn't make it correct. I'm basically just trying to say we really don't have the data to prove one way or the other at this point.

Who gives a rip on all that other crap, how are the crops doing currently. Enough humidity there to keep the corn growing?

Bobauss, you seem to have an unnecessary "u" in your name. You simply can't pump billions and billions of tons of pollution into the air and not have something happen. Wake up and quit watching FOX news and listening to the bogus scientest bought and paid for by Exxon.

Sean - corn seems to be doing fine so far.

It is, by the way, fairly evident that the very vast number of scientists do believe the warming of the earth is a) above any historic norm, and b) man-made.

HOWEVER, like I said, even the people who follow this science don't do nearly what they must to stop warming, given they are proponents. And that is where we can all really stop talking about it, except for the point of yelling at people. Anybody sell their car yet? Sell their air conditioners? I didn't think so. So get ready to bake. And seriously so, whether you believe, well, whatever the hell you want to believe and argue about.

Derek - well, technically even if we were able to instantly cut off our CO2 emissions... there's already these greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. We can't really reverse that just by stopping future emissions. Definitely we can keep things from getting worse (assuming man is the cause here). I've planted a couple trees to help out, but my lot is kinda limited on space...

I have a question for all the pro climate change people here.

What was the average temperature on this day between the years 1511 and 1611?

Did they even have recordings of temps back then?

I think the republican candidates brought hades with them.

ugh, yeah I'm getting those stupid automated political calls now too. I just hope they don't try and post a sign in my yard again, they pulled that crap last year when I was at work. Came home and tore their sign down and burnt it in my fire pit that night.

Messiah? You are blaspheming Christ's name and are too stupid to know it.

Tree hugging? You mutton head. The biggest tree lovers are the rich who own acres of forrest and trust me lap dog, you won't get away killing any of their trees

I would choose an alternative fuel if there were any.

Noone chooses to be energy inefficient moron, it costs money to upgrade, especially with the wages the corporate boys are paying and paying nearly $4 a gallon. Takes all we have to get by, not upgrade.

Wedon't ask that fossil fuels go away, just that we all have more options and they are coming as the oil boys, your master, has overpriced themselves and capitalism will bring changes.

@Rogue American

Burnt a cord of wood last heating season. Amazing what dual pane low-e glass windows with vinyl frames, caulking and complete reinsulation can do. That's 1.5 cords of carbon footprint eliminated.

The best was a raving maniac around here out to save the owls in his 1953 Chevy pickup. Told him to quit keeping OPEC happy as his fine rig could kill mosquitoes within a quarter mile.

Problem with the spotted owls is too many barred owl cousins married cousins until they lost their adaptability. Got people freaking out around here about owl intermarriage. Seems that the barred owls are moving in and getting reacquainted with old relatives. What do we call them now? Sparred Owls, Botted Owls?

@Brokinarrow

On your temperature recording comment - My Michigan relatives measured it by the top blowing off the thermometer, at least that's the lore from my Grandfather. So how do you write that one down?

Rogue, I like you. We own land and I've been heating with a woodstove for over 30 years. WE don't even turn the air on until it's over 90, no dishwasher, well water and septic. We don't use pesticides or herbicides, if it's green and grows that's good enough. We also plant trees every year and only burn those that have died. I'd love to go greener with electricity but we don't have the money for it. Oh and we recycle everything.

Excellent SHAWN-1387469. Many beautiful gardens exist where synthetic pesticides and synthetic herbicides are never used.

The following organizations, and many more, have acknowledged that humanity is disrupting the Earth's climate:

• National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
• National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
• NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
• Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
• The Royal Society of the UK (RS)
• Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)
• Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)

Sorry Brokin, but when all of these experts agree on something, it's a safe bet they know what they're talking about.

Messiah? You are blaspheming Christ's name and are too stupid to know it.

Must be the heat..lol

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

Well, if they say there is no climate change they are out of work.

Derek,

I'm not a vengeful hater. The good people of Iowa and other Mid Western states have my full sympathy in their suffering. Hopefully it won't last too much longer!

Did they even have recordings of temps back then?

Exactly my point.

What if this "climate change" is actually part of a natural cycle?

No natural cycle can change this dramatically short of a meteor impact. That's the point. These things take a very long time naturally in comparison to the human lifespan.

Exactly ... if it's a natural cycle, there should be evidence of what natural mechanism has caused recent warming, but there isn't. The thermal radiation properties of greenhouse gases fit the observed data; other explanations don't.

On your temperature recording comment - My Michigan relatives measured it by the top blowing off the thermometer, at least that's the lore from my Grandfather. So how do you write that one down?

Hmmm, I think something along the lines of ???!?!!!! would be appropriate. That's pretty crazy!

and seattle's been above 80 only about 75 minutes so far this summer.

You in the northwest are very lucky. Since June 12th, Waco, Texas has been over 100 degrees every day except four. We hit 106 yesterday with the same forecast for today. Adding to the misery index, we had some late afternoon showers yesterday which has driven up the humidity and the forecast heat index for today is approaching 112-115 degrees, depending on which TV weather liar you choose. I feel for the drummers ~ and football players. Two-a-day practices begin next week.

true ---- i noticed that the average high for waco in july is about 97, so getting to 100 isn't really much change -- only about one standard deviation from the mean. ---- but i sympathize with your feelings about the heat ---- i wouldn't like it much either. ---- here in oregon, especially along the coast, if it does get hot, the humidity can make it pretty unpleasant.

Uh, Ron? You do realize that the summer of 1936 was during the Dust Bowl, right? You know, the first real example showing that humans can damage their environment so badly that it changes the climate.

Not the smartest argument to come out of Americans for Prosperity...

it was still a heat wave, regardless ------ how about the one that occurred in the 1600"s ??

How bad is the humidity in Waco? Thats the thing that really kills ya here in Iowa. As I type this it's 92 degrees with 67% humidity... this morning the humidity was up around 80%, bleh!

Just had a torrential downpour for about 20 minutes last night here in Southern Oregon. It's all a part of an approximate 30 year cycle. In 15 years it will be hot in summer and we'll be dealing with drought here. My dad's lived through three of them, I've lived through two. We call these the years without summer.

The remains headed up into central Canada. Y'all have a stationary high pressure area there that just keeps fending off anything we get here.

sean ---- you must be close to where i am. ----- that was one doozy of a storm last night.

All bikini clad young women welcome.

You fat dudes are on your own.

thanks richard....made my morning..........:)

so he'll take the skinny dudes too?

Gotta give the bikini-clad women a reason to stick around ;-)

why ice cream ??? ---- any icy product would work as well if not better --- ice cream makes you thirsty. ------------------------------- i do agree about the windows that can be opened during the night ---- many office buildings here do not have that capability. ----- and of course, it is very important to keep hydrated.

btw, i provide ice for my employees.

I am an employed American who takes breaks whenever I feel like it throughout the day. So long as I get my work done, no one cares. Ridiculous generalizations do no one any good. Several countries in the European Union are on the verge of collapse and requiring bailouts, so I hardly think Europe is a model that everyone should follow.

Well sfw part of the reason that is the case is the move to the Euro. Greece can't control it's monetary policy anymore. Otherwise they could have devalued the Drachma to help combat their problems.

I work in a foundry in Iowa and we are open through this heatwave. We provide employees with extra breaks, gator-aide, ice, and popcycles. Ice cream is a bad idea. Dairy products in this heat can cause a lot more problems than they solve.

"Milk was a bad choice" isn't just a joke on Anchorman :-)

Gregorovich

I work in a foundry in Iowa and we are open through this heatwave.

i pity ya.. no time to be in a mill or foundry, too many employers don't do as yours does, i was in a steel mill here last time this happened. doing millwright work, and of course thats when the roll or melt shop always decides to break down.

fuss

You obviously are stating what you THINK American companies are doing. Here is the US, especially in Texas, we know what can happen in heat. Most of our company offices are air-conditioned, (it wouldn't help to open windows at night when the lows are still above 77 degrees f) out side workers take breaks and drink water, gator aid, ice as needed. I agree with the other posters, milk products, along with alcohol and sodas are not a good idea in the extreme heat. They dehydrate you more.

Most of the US heat deaths so far this year are elderly or people with other health conditions. None while at work. Most happen in un-air conditioned homes, or people working (privately) in their yards or recreational activities or stupid people who either leave elderly or children in cars.

Impossible here fusseltier - it just sounds too socialistic!

btw, i provide ice for my employees.

Back when i worked outside all day long my employer would show up to the job site every morning with a cooler full of Gatorade and one full of ice water. He paid us well and we could hit the shade whenever we needed, drink all we wanted. He was a good man honest pay for honest work and he never had us do something he wouldn't do. and we respected him for it.

We all know this isn't true. Why would Al Gore need a hair dryer?

It is the end of time when "weed" burns up in the fields...........

Not Al Gore at all..

The vaporous rapture will be followed by the flames and brimstone of the Anti-Christs and today's political prophets.

ha ha ha ha ha .... Al Gore is just way too cereal for me.

Taboo=cars,over consumption,competition.....etc.

You mean right in the middle of the Dust Bowl? One of the most blatant examples of man's ability to disrupt the environment?

You might want to think through your Freedomworks talking points before you post them.

The 1934 warming was not global in extent ... see the NOAA global average temperature data.

very true 3.14

worked a mine outside Apache Junction one year, it is amazing what your body can get use to. Fluids are the key.

Have you tried going on a run in high amounts of humidity? Definitely not fun. I'd take 112 with 0 humidity over 90 with 70% + humidity any day...

Humidity is the problem in the Midwest. The ground is wet from all the floods they endured several weeks ago.

Hey Scooter! How you holdin' up? You sound....tired. Been thinking about heading North a bit myself...but dang...they aren't doing much better. 115 in Minn.!?!

I gotta tell you, this is by far the worst humidity I've seen here...ever.

So hot, I heard two hydrants were fighting over a dog.

On the plus side,(I read Sean was asking about the corn crop.) Over here it looks like a tropical rain forest...our crops are insane. Never had a better fruit harvest. Sweet corn is coming already. It could be so much worse, concidering the drought down South.....as humid as it is, I'm still counting my blessings.....

Our biggest concerns are the critters. We have tons of shade, fans in the out building, and I give them fresh cold well water several times a day, but they look so wrung out...

This is the first time I've fired up the computer all week. We've covered all the windows with "thinsulate", and turned off all the lights. I made a solar oven with a tire and an old window, it works great, keeps from heating up the house, but it's too hot to eat. Talk about a great diet!

Stay cool, my friend....hang in there..hopefully we'll have a georgeous fall and all this will be a distant memory.

Global warming my A&&! It was just as hot in 1971, 1973, 1975, and 1981. I worked outside with two weeks straight of over 100 temps in Iowa back in those years. Mowing lawns, de-tassling, walking beans and working construction. We also had four weekends of record -20 or colder in 1971 and 1982, mid-1990s and mid-2000s so where is the global cooling hype? The heat means nothing. All the hype is just city dwellers and id-yots using normal range weather that happens about every decade to whip up the population. Damn softies!

it's easy to promote the bad effects of something, like the weather or climate ---- it's another story to come up with realistic solutions. ----- what are YOUR solutions ???

First and foremost, you must address my point. Deny the macrophages. Do it!

Second, the solutions are a dime a dozen. None of them will get us back to where we were, but all are acceptable. The only thing telling you we can't come up with one is the TV because not enough people care to put up the $$ to pay for any one of the solutions.

just what i thought, another student who talks big, but has no solutions of his own. ------ i actually believe that the climate is changing, and have been living a "green" lifestyle sine the 70's, before that word was coined. ---- what have YOU done for your environment lately ??

I've written my reps about it. My plan included a fast track transition to nuclear as a stepping stone. Think about it: nuclear material left over from reactors is near weapons grade. Which country would you like that to sit in? Second, they offer a much more efficient way to generate energy ounce for ounce. Third, the waste is far more acceptable as it produces grams for every few pounds produced by coal.

A normal coal plant pollutes nearby areas and causes a significant uptick in asthma in children in those areas (all part of normal operations). That's not even considering coal ash getting into the ground water. A piece of plexiglass can protect you from breeder reactor waste, but try getting arsenic and lead out of your water.

Also, I graduated some time ago and would dare say I pay more in taxes then most. Lastly, I would point out it's enough to be aware of the problems and let the scientists continue working toward a solution - just like with the macrophages which you refuse to acknowledge.

i also like nuclear, but prefer hydro-electric power plants, because of their overall efficiency and relative ease of maintenance. ------- and i agree that we need to phase out coal. ---------------- a good example of how people can work together on this problem is the windfarm being built in western north dakota by an electrical cooperative.

I have no idea what you're talking about... And I'd bet most of the other people on this vine don't either. Which is probably why you don't hear many people denying these macrophages or whatever. Climate change (man made or not) is something we see and feel every day, thus people are more concerned with it.

Grow more trees. Simplest carbon sequestration machine around.

But that's my whole point. Right there. Nobody discusses the macrophages because they are too esoteric. The idea of climate change is a more tractable topic, but it is no less scientific than the other topic. Both topics should be handled by scientists, and the idea that the public should jump onto one injecting all kinds of random opinions to try to argue down peer reviewed research is silly in both cases.

Ah ha, ok I see your point then yes.

Keep in mind, having a high nuclear energy portfolio in the country would cause rampant uranium mining and I'm sure you know what that process entails.

So I would have to partially disagree using nuclear as a stepping stone. Increase it but don't rely on it. Anything that is done will have to be done in transition and there are other reliable energy sources that we could use in tandem.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your plan, just something to think about.

It's unlikely that any single technology will be enough. Solutions will need to include energy production (solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear, etc.) as well as energy efficiency (better electric cars, etc.)

yeeeeah rub it in lol

Sorry buddy. Couldn't help myself. Be safe.

Haha, no worries, used to it. My parents always start calling around November bragging about how nice the Arizona winter is. Gotta mow the lawn today, been putting it off hoping it would cool down, but no luck. Definitely going to fill my camel-pack full of icewater before I start though!

???????????? today's projected high today for knoxville is only 89.

Knoxville, Iowa. It was in the article attached to the discussion.

same problem ---- projected high of 99,

Ron, is it too much to ask for you to read the article? Are we putting you out of your way? Are we disturbing you during nap time? Here, I will save you time. The comment I am referring to is at the very top of the article. Second paragraph, 4th line down. Let me know if you need someone to read it to you.

read the article, but obviously someone made an error ----- check weather.com for today's forecast, before jumping to conclusions. ------ do you actually believe everything msnbc prints ???

I really don't care what you read somewhere else. I am discussing THIS article. Comprende?

and the article is wrong -----comprende ???

So send a note to the editor with your scientific findings and quit being a know it all to a guy simply discussing what the article says. I could care less if that number is 100% accurate. Its F&^ing hot.

Bet your panties got twisted when you realised they were off on their temperature, as you say.

why are you too lazy to fact-check the article before you made your comment in the first place ??? ------ did you actually believe a forecast of 131 ???

Hey, I think I will read an article on hot temperatures then go to weather.com to correct the writer. I am a real joy.

Cause I don't sit on my fat ass all day with this being the only thing I have to worry about. I have way more important things to do than argue a few degrees on an article. Isn't it nap time?

a few degrees ??? ------ 131 would be an extremely unusual number for kansas. -------------------- yes, i can see you have so many important things to do, that is why you are arguing about how you didn't fact-check before you commented.

Know what a peak index is loser?

and here is another article with the same info. I have now joined the rank of loser that actually takes the time to look at temps somewhere else to verify info that really means nothing to me

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/humid-heat-wave-spreading-across-us/2011/07/19/gIQADPyoNI_blog.html

Kansas??? loser and dumb?

The temperature + humidy = the 131. The forecast of only 99 is just the temperature. Humidity makes a big difference in the overall picture.

Ron - Have you ever actually heard of a heat index? The forecasted high could be 75, but if there's 98% humidity, it feels much, MUCH warmer. Hence being able to develop "feels like" temps like 131 in Knoxville, IA yesterday.

Knoxville, Iowa: High of 99 today: http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Knoxville+IA+USIA0448 It's up to 94 in Indianola now, which is about 30 miles west of Knoxville. Note that the heat index is listed at 121.

but tony did not state that in his original comment ---- he implied an ambient temp of 131. ----- next time, be more specific.

Awe you explained it to him. I was hoping he would catch his own mistakes then disappear in disgrace. I knew it was trouble when he didn't even realise what state the readings were from, even though a monkey could have seen it in the article.

implied? Your basis for your stupidity is because you saw my post as "implying"? That translates to "you read it wrong", doesn't it? Go back to weather.com where it's 96 degrees in knoxville kansas.

Notice others were intelligent enough to remember the article and know exactly what I meant.

Yeah, the article was talking about heat indexes. It's called Reading Comprehension ronpal. Might want to work on it, just sayin...

Those are heat INDEXES, not actual heat. It is what it feels like with humidity, wind, etc factored in. But they are still very hot in Iowa, hotter than even what we are experiencing in Texas, the actual heat has been a high of 105 hear with HI aound 115.

Yes, and heading east. We will be enjoying this heat by the end of the week. Keeping my AC on.

EXACTLY!!! It's amazing how much people bytch about how hot the weather has been but AT LEAST you're able to wear what you want to stay cool. You even have the option of staying inside if you choose. And you don't have to worry about getting shot at and all of the host of other things that our troops are having to deal with in Afghanistan. Freakin' deal with it and quit complaining.

Mary, thanks for the wake up call about our troops. What a bunch of whiners in Iowa.

I live Las Vegas and it's always hot in the summer. We just deal with it. Today it was 108. While we're used to it, it doesn't make it any easier to keep cool.

and it would be nice to actually see some solutions, instead of people simply pointing out the obvious.

Solutions start with acknowledgement which is the largest barrier in the US. Carbon cap emissions, cap and trade legislation are a solution to lower carbon output and they are both very unpopular choices for various reasons.
Creating more funding to make renewable more mainstream and cheaper to further reduce human impact is a solution and is still unpopular (until gas is around $150 a barrel)

You said it yourself, I've stated the obvious and the solutions that have come up with have been stricken down and only partially implemented. There is no magic wand here. I'm just one person. If the time comes that it is agreed that these policies need to be implemented, then there is a possibility to move forward.

Besides, I didn't see any ideas in your reply either.

i have stated my ideas many times in the past, but here goes :::::: #1, build more hydro-electric power plants --- they are more efficient, and we know they work. ------ #2, plant trees ---- an average tree consumes about one tonne of CO2 per year. ------- #3, address the issue of population increase --- if humans are a part of this, then having more of us is also an issue. ----- #4, stop issuing building permits in low-lying coastal areas, and encourage new construction at higher elevations. ----- #5, encourage new designs in homes which are more adaptable to severe weather.

tokrah ---- i'm way ahead of the curve on this ---- been using windpower on my home since 1989. ---- my grandparents used windpower for their electricity. ----- back in the 70's, i was an advocate for things like fuel-efficient vehicles, and promoted the use of the toilets which flush with less water. ---- i am currently a promoter for the use of LED lightbulbs, and for the reduction of the speedlimit.

#3, address the issue of population increase --- if humans are a part of this, then having more of us is also an issue.

You're suggesting population control? They might be able to get away with it in China, but it would never happen in most countries. Your other points I can agree with though, especially #2. I find myself staring at people's houses as I drive by with wide open lots of grass and think "what a waste, plant some trees in there!" I've planted 2 at my house so far (which will probably be more than enough for my small lot)

i know ---- population increase is a sticky wicket ---- but human increase is a factor ---- don't know how our leaders will handle that one, except like a hot potato.

Well then I'm not sure why you're upset at me for not offering solutions.

Then you realize one person can only do so much. In your case you've done more than I'm capable of. It takes a whole world of people to achieve anything substantial.

Ronpal - yes, this is why I scoff at people that think human space flight is a waste of money/time/effort. I'd much prefer that we develop the tech to colonize new planets rather that resort to population control, massive warfare, or have a nasty disease come along and wipe out a significant chunk the population.

anyone can plant a tree ---- i planted over 100 on my place, at a cost of about $1 per tree. ------ people can band together and form their own electrical cooperative, like the one in western north dakota which is building a huge windfarm.

sadly , i suspect you will be proven correct about the deadly disease.

The DNR here in Iowa has a nice seedling program, you can get 100 seedlings for around $40. Planning on taking advantage of that once I move into the country.

Do any of you know which tree consumes the most CO2? It's the Red Oak.

Did not know that Shawn, thanks :-)

Tom, lol, that's not heat, that's spring!

Yeah, I've felt that before. It's not that bad compared the 90 degrees and 70% humidity here. If you haven't experienced high humidity before, you have no idea how much it can add to the temperature.

63 and hazy in NorCal.

The SF Bay area is weird like that too.

A week or so of winter, 5 months of spring 2 weeks of hot then the remainder is autumn.