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Funny how a nation that slaughters its own people and uses them as human shields raises hell when a half dozen civilians are killed by opposing forces.
We shouldn't be there in the first place...now can we start the war crimes trial against Obama?
And there was NATO, with the US as alliance
Who bombed other countries into compliance
But at it’s very core
It’s not a real war
To figure this out isn’t rocket science.
It's also a civil war. If Ghadafi was killed tomorrow the war would not end and Libya would not be reunified.
Well, so far we haven't been given any proof that the "own people" the Libyan government "slaughtered" haven't been armed and shooting. Of course, if you call London, Dresden and Hiroshima, all filled with civilians when they were bombed, being used as "human shields," I guess you can call Tripoli civilians the same.
Sanctimonious French massacred two million Algerians and they are p1ssing up a storm over Libya?
The rebels are killing just as many civilians in their attacks as Gadhafi's forces. Many of the "civilians" Gadhafi's forces are being accused of killing are actually rebel fighters. After they fall their comrades take their weapons away and point to them claiming they were civilians. This is what happens when you have a combatant force that does not wear uniforms and wants to gain international support against their enemy. What is going on in Libya is an internal civil war an NATO has no business interfering. There is no indication that the majority of the Libyan population supports the rebels. In fact, there have been some indications that Gadhafi still enjoys wide spread support among the Libyan people. Prior to the NATO bombing campaign Libya was the most prosperous nation in Africa. They also have the highest literacy rate and the highest per capita income on the continent. As dictators go, Gadhafi seemed to be better than most. Any Libyan that wanted had their college education paid for by the state. How many African or Muslim nations can make that claim. Libya was a fairly prosperous, well educated nation. In the past ten years Gadhafi had mellowed considerably and things within Libya could have been far worse. Gadhafi managed to keep peace among the dozens of different tribal leaders and maintained order without resorting to wholesale oppression of the people. NATO had no right to go in and interfere in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation. The fact that the rebels can not succeed in unseating Gadhafi, even with the extensive support from NATO, is a clear indication that there is not huge support within Libya for Gadhafi's ouster. Other countries in the region have been able to unseat despotic rulers with far less outside help. This is because there was much more internal support for change. In Libya, it has become obvious that the same support does not exist. The rebels are keeping control of areas of Libya by force, not popular consent and are not better than Gadhafi. There are still large numbers of people in rebel held cities that support Gadhafi but keep their heads down to keep the rebels from killing them.
Cooper2008
Did you feel the same when US first attacked Iraq
Obama has changed the meaning of "Humatarian mission"
Obama has changed the meaning of "Terrorist"
Obama has changed the meaning of " Terrorist attack"
Obama has changed the meaning of"Justice"
Obama has changed the meaning of 'Marriage"
Obama has chaned the meaning of "recession"
Obama has chaged the meaning of "Life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
Obama has Changed the meaning of "America"
wow thats some change folks....who is gald they voted for this kind of change?????don't see many Obama bumpersickers these days.
Obama grossly exaggerated the humanitarian threat in Libya in order to justify military action there.
Back in March, Obama said that U.S. military involvement in Libya was necessary in order to avoid "blood bath" and "humanitarian catastrophe."
The president said, "If we waited one more day, Benghazi . . . could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world."
This is bull@!$%#!
Despite ubiquitous cellphones equipped with cameras and video, there is NO graphic evidence of deliberate massacre. Images abound of victims killed or wounded in crossfire, each one a tragedy, but that is urban warfare, not genocide.
Nor did Khadafy ever threaten civilian massacre in Benghazi, as Obama alleged. The "no mercy'' warning, of March 17, targeted rebels ONLY, as reported by The New York Times, which noted that Libya's leader promised amnesty for those "who throw their weapons away.'' Khadafy even offered the rebels an escape route and open border to Egypt, to avoid a fight "to the bitter end.''
OBAMA LED THE U.S. INTO LIBYA UNDER FALSE HUMANITARIAN PRETENSES !
Bring our boys home and protect our OWN borders!
JD - Very good. Someone who obviously understands the progress of this mess.
By the way, why in the wortd NATO still exists! It was formed as a protection against communist Soviet Union. So whom is NATO protecting now? How much money (and military equipment) US contributes to NATO?
Where is UN to issue a restrain to NATO since apparently more civilians are killed by NATO (and by the rebels they support) than by Gaddafi?
You can choose to believe what you want to believe, but what you chose to believe sounds like unbiquitously recycled news to me.
You condemn Libya for complaining over a few dozen deaths; what do you want them to do, wait for the end? You speak about the country killing civilians as if you're there and saw everything. How do you know the news that MSNBC put out were the truths? Like this news we're discussing; did you notice how the (very professional) reporter was quick to add his own comment in his report by saying.." there was once a hospital staff who passed a note to reporters claiming a child who was killed in an accident was used by the Libyan government as a casualty of NATO bombing."
Correct me if I am wrong (the reporter of this report may be telling the truth), but his report about being taken by Libyan government officials to view the bomb site and about being shadowed by govt. minders, sounds like a reporter who's sketical about the whole thing from the beginning (about NATO bombing Tripoli) but tagged along anyway. He had made up his mind. He was unconcerned the so-called note was not passed by a rebel or rebel sympathiser. He didn't care how many civilians die; what mattered was Qaddafi should get what he deserved for "killing lots of civilians."
You know, what they say if you repeat lies relentlessly, overtime they become the truths seems to be correct.
President Obama and the prime minister of Britain and president of France were greatly assisted by people like you to help promote what could be nothing less than snake oil peddling. They are snake oil salesmen!
The more they tried to downplay the number of casualties due to their senseless bombing, the more they sound like snakeoil salesmen.
Nato denied attacking any civilians. Of course they denied. The spokeswoman of NATO claimed what the Libyan government claimed was pure rubbish, propaganda. Was she so sure nobody was hurt? Ask her where the NATO planes have been bombing? In the the desert far, far away from town and cities? For crying out loud, even if NATO pilots threw stones, just stones from their aircraft at the targets below, the sorties tthat they have been flying round the clock, would kill people - not to mention sophisticated high exposive bombs they could come up with. They fact that NATO was contemplating using bunker-buster bombs (they condemned Israel for using them against Hezbolah), they had exhaustingly deployed their best weapons against Libya.
And this NATO woman, Oana Lungecu, who defended so vigorously the Alliance's killing of innocent civilians will be punished by God for her callousness and cruelty; she should know she and her kinds (David Cameron, Nicolas Sarkozy and Barrack Obama) will never be safe. Misfortune will always target people like them. They reap what the sow.
If they want to save their souls they should get out of their jobs on the double.
You know why during a disaster, when it looks like nobody will get out alive, someone (or someones) miraculously was untouched (unaffacted)? Miracles (an event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a divine or supernatural cause)! Miracles will never be near, let alone, protect these unrepentant people.
My advice to you is: stop being fooled by President Obama and his gangs.
Civil wars, internal strife, tribal warfare - call it what you choose. How long does it take "civilized" western countries to figure out you cannot win another country's civil war?
It's almost impossible to name a country in the Middle East that isn't actively engaged in some form of civil war/tribal warfare - Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Tripoli, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Somalia and the list goes on.
We have our own version of tribal war going on right here in this country; right vs. left, Democrats vs. Republicans, so-called conservatives vs. so-called liberals. Let's not forget, the most deadly war in which the U.S. has ever been involved was our own real-life/real-death shoot-'em-up Civil War. We should have some serious insight into this nonsense.
We really, really, really need to mind our own business. That's not an isolationist position, that's knowing where you don't belong.
David Walker, for probably the first time on these vines, I agree with every thing you posted, except that you can't bring yourself to name the culprit in this case.
We have NO business being there. Obama is in violation of the War Powers Act and the Consitution. Iraq was a huge mistake that should not have been made, based on false information - but at least Bush had Congressional authority for the use of force. Afg made sense - at the time. 10 years later, it no longer makes sense. I applauded Obama when he authorized the execution of Bin Laden, but the ongoing "stealth" war in Yemen? We're at war on no less than four fronts.
And point in fact, we can no longer afford ANY of it.
What smidgen of support and benefit of the doubt I had left for Obama evaporated entirely when he became yet another War President. Shame on him.
He's Bush III.
This endless cycle of wars and interventions started with Korea and has never ended. Wars and run away defense spending is why we are $T's in debt. Stop the funding and stop the wars.
Pragmatic - your eyes are becoming open. The two party system is a mirage. Parlor magic. We are systematically being deceived and destroyed by this system of lies, misinformation, and subterfuge. The plan appears to be one of fragmenting the populace into polarized classes - with everybody being lied to.
It is true. Obama is Bush III. Bush IV is waiting in the wings. He is guaranteed to win, because most any candidate will suffice in this age of deception.
The cards are stacked against us.
JS in SD
Very correct.
Freedman1,
indeed, it would seem to be the case. the only way to do such a thing would be to oust the traitor, break from NATO/UN, and scrap a good chunk of the amendments made to the US constitution that make a singe on free rights, and perhaps add amendments making those in political power to be held accountable for acts that harm the people of the US finacially as well as physically.
A lot of people on this post find it easier to believe Gadhafi and his paid henchman, rather than our military and duly elected leaders. Is it because Gadhafi has shown himself to be an honest trustworthy person in the past? Hardly. Is it because they believe NATO is corrupt, and maliciously making up lies to cover their deliberate effort to murder Libyan civilians? Not likely. Is it because anything our President does is motivated by a secret desire to make our country a force for evil in the world. Ahh, that must be it.
According to madmax13, we are all too stupid to understand that. And, of course, he is the only one who sees the truth. How kind of him to point that out for us.
No Marv what we see is that the US has no business in Libya. What we see is that the rebels are no better than what is currently there and maybe worse. What we see is that while calling this a humanitarian mission they are bombing targets that are not humanitarian related killing at least a few civilians probably more. What we see is that we are taking sides in a civil war. What we see is that this is really not about humanitarianism but oil and financially motivated and most importantly what we see is that the people who side with doing all this cannot or will not open their eyes to see the truth behind the reasons we are there.
Hey Obama define the word "hostilities". Apparently your definition doesn't include killing people.
Marv,
i dont think its a matter of WHO they believe in most of this, or WHO they dont. The fact of the matter is, we have no right telling another nation how to police its nation. How would you feel if this nation got to the point where it took action to change the government, even if it was by force because it had to. Thing is, now there is an outside force in your yard, bombing the same side you are on, for the good of the other side... well let me guess, i bet you'd beat a path like no tomorrow to be the 1st to cry foul?
Fact is the US isnt the world police, the US has no right picking sides in a nation it has no business doing so, for finacial gains. Such is the case here. Do you think if the UK had nooil drilling rights, that there would be the BS going on now in this? It has not 1 f'ing thing to do with humanitarian efforts, look up the term humanitarian once. It has all to do with oil, and the rights to drill there. Daffy was going to cut the UK out of the picture, then gee all of a sudden by some chance of fate, those who loved their leader to the death are wanting him out? That even tho Daffy said "whoa wait a minute, cease fire! lets talk this out" being totally ignored might be a little odd, especially when dealing with such a so called humanitarian mission? There wasnt so much as a pause in the bombing when he called for a cease fire. There is wanting someone out, and then taking someone out. Be Daffy steps down or not, at this point in time, he IS still the ruler, and even tho this self proclaimed government over there the UN is accepting, they also take into fact Daffy still holds the cards....why is that?
See at this point and time, be it as it is, Daffy would actually have no hold to land, and, yes AND if this were not a oil deal gone wrong, yes, there would be troops on behalf of the UN/NATO, taking Daffy from his bunker, and into custody. We dropped the Iraq regime in what, a week, 2 weeks? Saddams military was in full force. Yet a lowly man in a bunker, who has been there for a little over a month, almost 2, backed into a corner, has little means other than those, loyal to him....oooh.... wait a sec. He has a pretty good dized force that is still loyal to him. some defected and my thoughts out of being cowards, and still wanting to be in the game seeing how there is an armada of death at Libya's doorstep. ya, real righteous war going on there isnt it? Ol' Daffy, still going strong with all those who were wanting all that change i guess.... maybe what we heard was somewhat right? maybe there is AQ at play in this. Maybe by some chance there really wasnt as much of the people disloyal to Daffy as its been made out to be? Just saying....cause be things as OUR side is making them sound, its more like Daffy in a bunker, but then they cant help to say after all the bombings, missiles, drone attacks, tommy hawks, and so on, this guy still has an army that hasnt been beat? ya.... tell it to the next guy in line who likes a good fairy tail.
It's all hypocrisy really. The right never would like anything the left does and vice versa. So let's keep it going with the right blocking everything the left does and the left blocking everything the right does.
One thing is for sure, after Wisconsin, and other times when one party rules it all, the backlash is tremendous. I think Americans will vote for a split legislature to keep one party from dominating with ideology.
The amazing thing here is that our government has accomplished something never done before. The majority of people here now agree with GADHAFI over statements made by our own "leader". Now what the hell are we going to do about it?
personally for me, it has nothing to do with left right or inbetween, it has to do with right and wrong. whats going on.... it is wrong. how it was our resourses ended up in Libya, is wrong. There is no justification at this point that can make be blieve otherwise. if anything when this rebel uprising is concerned taking into consideration Daffy still hold the key to Libya, means there were more people in support of him then, and now, then what has been fed to us. That this being the case, he, and his military should have been beaten 2 months ago. Yet this isnt the case. he still has more people in favor OF him than AGAINST him. we cant count the people, civilians, who have already long since fled. they seemed to want no part of whats going on. cant say i really blame them. for the fact why flee, if you are safe in the hands of your freinds? the people who want to support whats good for you? Libya is a pretty big place... there are a lot of places to go where there is no fighting, yet them wanting out of the country..... they know something stinks, and it wasnt the fish from last weeks market.
"I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace" ~ George W. Bush, June 18, 2002
NATO needs to be held accountable for this entire fiasco. In fact NATO owes gadaffis Libya more than an apology and a pull out, NATO owes LIBYA Lots of $$$ to rebuild, lost oil revenues, death compensations, and I do believe that all the heads of state who have participated in these horrendous murders should stand for war crimes trials in Libyan courts. that means hillary clinton, samantha powers, barack obama, nick frenchy, george soros, all the UN puppets who pushed for this, all of them should be held accountable for their filthy actions on a nation facing the threat of the islamo nazi terror group al quaida. this makes me sick. i do believe gadaffi should convict all of the heads of state for war crimes including murder. If that means death penalty, than next time the UN and its members will think twice before empire building threw western created covert islamic terror revolutions under the thin vale of a "democratic uprising".
if americans allow this bloodshed to continue than america is a dictatorship.
if the UN invaded america in the guise of protecting a communist led uprising that the american people fought to quell, would it be an act of war? would it
be a war crime if UN drone bombs blew up your kid?
the way this has been played into our ears.... not even sure Daffy is guilty of anything war crime type other than the lockerbie bombing issue. i mean seriously, this thing played out tick for tock as it did in every country to have an uprising thusfar. sniper shoots only a few protesters, then again a certain few at a funeral, then again when the military steps in, with heave arms, its only a few who are killed.
the snipers my guess could even be other than Daffy's military, or these people were targets for a reason. either way, in ALL instances, it has started, and been played out the same. uprising, after sniper fire, and then a call to step down, then force ensues.
the timeing, and so called demands for rights as we heard in Egypt after of the slaughtering when these rebels and new government got their new wings, is messed up. There were people slaughterd in Libya at the hands of these rebels. Egypt. Tunisia. Tell me this doesnt sound a tad more than... simple coincidence?
Ghadaffi's Libyan army troops are defecting in ever larger numbers to Tunisia
or anyplace else. They are being turned by orders from the top to rape any women
who oppose Ghadhaffi. When all of his forces have deserted, then the rebels will
drive into Tripoli with little opposition and take the mad dictator off to his
hanging.
lol, the jury is still out on the, cough, rape every woman thing. i would fins that a bit hard to do being how they are ducking from bombs day and night as well. Then again, lookking at soldiers fleeing, or giving up... nothing new or suprising. i am sure morale is low, they are wondering if and when the bombing will stop, and as time ticks on a war that will last till someone says you won.
Hey Republicans, you look fine in your pink skirts!
I think the Democrats are ridiculous too, but it is funny to watch the Democrats with a spine, and the Republicans without one. No surprises here...Wall Street is switching parties!
Someone mark this transition in history, though, where tough talking Republicans and the pro-war, pro military party decides to don their bonnets and lipstick. You're looking good, Repubs, in your Sunday dresses!
Very good Mark, I couldn't have said it better.
Who has killed the most libyans, qaddafi or us?
Sounds like an admission of guilt to me. And "in the past"?? Does that mean in the future NATO may start hitting civilians that support Ghaddafi?
There is a small group of muslim extremists that want to take the government over and Obama is aiding them? By the way, this isn't the voters or the United States aiding a rebellion...it is single handedly the Obama administration since he's decided to forego legal means and bypass Congress.
Who is the real dictator? Obama or Ghaddafi?
Nato leaders need to face the same war crime charges as they wish to indict Qaddafi for, for every civilian death.
now can we start the war crimes trial against Obama?
Right after we finish the one against Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
It is ludicrous to think that the daily bombings by NATO aren’t maiming and killing civilians. Their daily bombings have little chance of killing Kaddafi so they’ve settled for killing whomever they can.
Your all right, lets not interfere with other countries "GOD" given rights too kill and maim it's own citizens and others. When will we stop interfering in Libya, and Afghanistan, and Iraq. I wish we could go back in time and alter our previous attempts at interfering with other nations. How much better would the world be if we kept to ourselves, during, Russia, and, Japan, and Italy, and Nazi Germany's little scuffles. Stop NATO and the US from interference. Who's with me, who wants to see the world burn, and everyone scream. Because you didn't have the stomach to stop a bad man, or bad regime, before it got to powerful, and maybe a little out of control.
During the President Bush (43) Era Sanctions and Embargoes were demanded and implaced. President Bush gave enough time for the Sanctions and Embargoes to take effect.
To get the Sanctions and Embargoes lifted Gaddaffi so that he could sell Libyan Oil to the Europeans Gaddaffi:
A. Abandoned WMDs (turned over all WMDs to the US, as verified by US, my previous background with Nuclear, Biological (Epidemiology), Chemical).
B. Cooperated with the CIA against Al Quada and the Libyan Islamic Fighters Group (LIFG, the bad guys that were/are killing the US and US Allies at Iraq).
C. Abandoned Nuclear Power Plants.
D. Instituted Human Rights including Women's Rights.*
E. Actively had his Libyan Military go after the Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) Algeria Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, etc..and the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) as verified to be at Libya by the President's Executive Intelligence Agency (CIA).
All of the Above made Gaddaffi a "Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers" (yes, that includes you Athestis, Budhists, etc.). By current Islamic Laws Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers "Die a Horrible Murdering". Result the Arab League of Nations and Fundamentalist Islamic Iran demanding Gaddaffi's Overthrow, including sending their Oil Rich Lobbyists to the Europeans, US, NATO, etc..
Libya became the main supplier of European Oil, due to Fundamentalist Islamic Iran's (with the help of their Allies, the Chinese and Russian Federation) growing Strategic Sphere of Influence like their Allies giving the Chinese and the Russian Federation the Iraqis Oil Contracts and the US and US Allies (NATO, Europeans) getting NOTHING. And Fundamentalist Islamic Iran starting to control the shipping at the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman (stopping Oil Supertanker shipments from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq to the US and US Allies). Currently Fundamentalist Islamic Iran's Ally (thru the Arab League of Nations) Qatar is selling all the "Rebel" Libyan Oil to the Chinese and nothing going to the Europeans (NATO). Fundamentalist Islamic Iran supporting the Muslim Brotherhood at Egypt (deals for the Suez Canal), supporting the "Revolutions" at Syria (Ports at the Mediterranean), Yemen (south of US Ally Saudi Arabia, Yemen Government US Ally), Libya (Strategic Oil for Europe just like WWII, Ports to Mediterranean), etc.. In anticipation of the loss of the Iraqis Northern and Southern Oil Fields President Obama authorizes the Oil Exploration of the North Atlantic (same conditions that sunk the RMS Titanic), Mexico authorizes more high risk deep water Oil Drilling, Canada starts expensive processing of Oil Sand and Oil Shale to a few barrels of oil (similar process to environmental disaster strip mining), Saudi Arabia starts expensive desert deep sand Oil Exploration (these Nations and Kuwait (Kuwait was diagonal "Slant" drilling into the Iraqis Oil Fields (Act of War) triggering the Iraqis Military Invasion) were previously Oil Laundrying Iraqis Oil, as buying Iraqis Oil cheap and selling Iraqis Oil for huge profits to the US, since before the First Gulf War (Embargoes and Sanctions put in place by President Bush (41) against Iraq).).
The biggest mistake Gaddaffi made was at the beginning of 2011 declaring Libyan Oil Nationalization (same mistake that President Hussein made with his "Modernization of the Arab World" including Women's Rights and Iraqis Oil Nationalization). Gaddaffi's Oil Nationalization would effectively take away control of the Libyan Oil from BP (Britain), Total, Elf (France), Eni (Italy), OMV (Austria), Statoil (Norway), etc.. So instead of these European Oil Corporations hiring cheap Libyan Labor then keeping all the Profits, with Gaddaffi's Resource Nationalization, they would get almost nothing and the majority of the profits would remain in Libya. These Oil Corporations pressure their Governments to Overthrow Gaddaffi to stop his Libyan Oil Nationalization. So in anticipation of their Governments Military Actions to Overthrow Gaddaffi to stop his Resource Nationalization, "Non essential" personnel were evacuated Februrary 21, 2011.
If you draw up a basic timeline, you can figure it out yourself (and find all the missing pieces to the puzzle).
Gaddaffi Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (Bush Era)--->Sells Libyan Oil to Europeans --> Libyan Oil becomes Strategically Important after US and US Allies lose Iraqis Oil to Chinese and Russian Federation. And Fundamentalist Islamic Iran's Sphere of Influence increasing, surrounding all US Middle East Allies (especially Saudi Arabia and Israel), US lets Fundamentalist Islamic Iran do so (President Obama ignores Saudi Arabia's pleas and alienates Israel) --> Gaddaffi 2011 Declares Libyan Oil Nationalization --> Oil Corporations demand their Politicians Overthrow Gaddaffi to stop Libyan Oil Nationalization--> Politicians start labelling him "Dictator""Tyrant" etc.--> Arabic Al Jazeera (owned by Qatar) praises Al Quada going to Libya to assist Libyan Islamic Fighters Group to start a Civil War to Overthrow Collaborator Gaddaffi --> European Oil Corporations start evacuating their personnel from Libya, Feb 2011 --> US SOS Clinton meets with European Politicians at Europe-->The Libyan Insurrection starts as instigated by Al Quada and LIFG. Seizing Libyan Military Bases and Weapons --> UN declares Sanctions and Embargoes --> UN passes UN Resolution 1973 (Protect Civilians with No Fly Zones, nothing about Overthrowing Gaddaffi nor supporting either side), Arab League of Nations agrees --> US Cruise Missile Attacks (inaccurate, reference US killing Yemen Civilians by accident since 2009). --> US and NATO critized that Cruise Missile Attacks not accurate (Gaddaffi's Anti Aircraft sites and Military Bases located near Civilian Population centers, even US does this for Logistics purposes) -->NATO Attacks (siding with the Rebel Assaults on Gaddaffi Cities), Not enough time for the Sanctions and Embargoes to take effect. --> Arab League of Nations states US, NATO, gone too far by supporting the Rebels. -->President Obama fails to notify both Houses of US Congress within 48 Hours before US Military Actions (violation of US Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution specifically to stop the President from this type of unilateral action, no Congressional Appropriations). --> USN Cruise Missile Attacks continue. --> Al Quada, LIFG, etc. (aka Rebels) loot the Libyan Military Bases and Weapons Depots at Hight Razma Facility (Benghazi) and Ajdabiyah Facility, enough weapons, equipment, etc. to fight for years, as well as shoulder launched anti aircraft missiles that can be used by the Worldwide Islamic Military (aka Jihadists, Terrorists) to shoot down commercial airliners with Russian Federation SA-7s (known that these are showing up from Libya thru Tunisa, Algeria, and Egypt). --> CIA Special Activities Division (SAD) sent to Libya with TDA US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces (First US Military "Boots on the Ground"), US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces here (Afghanistan) put on "Standby" for redeployment (TDA) to Libya--> NATO Cruise Missile Attacks and Bombing of Tripoli (most populated city of Libya, think about attempting to bomb a small cafe only with a 500 pound bomb (1,000 pound HE Warhead in Cruise Missile) without destroying everything around it at New York City, go research "Blast Radius" for 500 and 1000 pounds HE, this Blast Radius negates the argument of "accuracy" (which the USN Cruise Missile are NOT accurate to begin with (experience at Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.)).--> Arab League of Nations continues to tell UN and NATO that they are going too far.--> Europeans starting to run out of Oil, Saudi Arabia pledges more low grade Oil to replace the lost Libyan Oil (lost to the Chinese, sold by Rebels to Qatar, Qatar sells to Chinese). Fundamentalist Islamic Iran puts pressure on Saudi Arabia NOT to sell any Oil to Europeans. King of Saudi Arabia demands US and Israel Military intervention against Fundamentalist Islamic Iran (Sec Def Gates visits Saudi Arabia). Europeans increase their attacks and active support of the Rebels.--> Rebels continue to lose, as Al Quada and LIFG only trained for Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency, not Force on Force Conventional Warfare).--> Europeans send Ground Attack Helicopters to support the Rebel Advances (note: Ground Attack Helicopters are rarely used for a defensive mission).--> President Obama violates the 1973 War Power Resolution (again), over the 60 days for All (all does include "Support" Missions) US Military Actions (just like Vietnam, US supplies "Support" Personnel as "Advisers" (aka US Army SF, "Green Berets") to the South Vietnamese), US sends Equipment and "Training" Personnel to train the South Vietnamese (US Army SF as Foreign Internal Defense (FID) Mission). More "Support" Personnel are sent. Eventually, Vietnam "Escalates". This is EXACTLY what the 1973 War Powers Resolution was designed to prevent and DOES apply to President Obama violating a US Law specifically designed to prevent him from abusing his Presidential War Powers (No US Congressional Approval prior to Any US Military Involvement, "Intent" of the Law overrules "Interpretation"). --> NATO running out of Bombs, Cruise Missiles, etc.. -->
If you want I can also post about four pages of unclassified references (single spaced front and back).
About the Human Rights thing above and Quality of Life at Libya before the US and NATO Attacks:
* (D. Above):
Some current facts (that mainstream media will never tell you) about Libya under Gaddafi's rule...
• Loans to Libyan citizens were given with *NO interest*.
• Students would get paid the average salary for the profession they are studying for.
• If you'd be unable to get the employment the state would pay the full salary as if you were employed.
• When you got married the couple got an apartment or house for free.
• You could go to college anywhere in the world. The state paid 2,500 euros plus for accommodation and a car.
• The cars were sold at factory cost (football field sized lots of cars at docks destroyed in the US and NATO attacks).
• Libya does not owe money, (not a cent) to anyone. No credits.
• Free education (including Post Graduate College, Medical School, etc.) and health care (medical, vision, dental).
• 25% of population with a university degree.
• No beggars on the streets and no homeless (until US and NATO attacks).
• Bread costs $0.15.
• Add Gasoline subsidized to .33 per gallon, currently the Insurrection (started by the Libyan Islamic Fighters Group and Al Quada to overthrow Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers) and US and NATO Attacks has caused the price to go up to .66 per gallon.
• Increasing "Human Rights" including Women's Rights (got the Arab League of Nations demanding his Overthrow, Women's Rights Illegal per current Islamic Laws). UN and African Union (UA) praise Gaddaffi.
• Cooperated with CIA (under Bush) against Al Quada, and other Terrorist Organizations.
• Abandoned WMDs, turned over to US during President Bush.
• Denounced Terrorism. Ask yourself can President Obama be held responsible for the individual US Citizens praising and partying for the Elimination of Osama Bin Laden (Islamic World hatred), so how can you hold Gaddaffi responsible for the Libyans praising and partying for the 9/11 2001 Attacks (unless you want him to go after them with his Police as possible Terrorist Supporters, the very thing you critize him for (going after Terrorist Supporters, and actual Terrorists)).
• Stopped Nuclear Power Plants.
• Gaddaffi's Military actively went after Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) Algeria; and the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, etc.. Just before they started the Insurrection (aka Civil War).
Cowardly leaders utilize civilian shields.
I am here from NATO and the United States of America, I am here to help you and set you free.
No matter that part of your citizenry and countrymen fight for their beliefs, WE WANT YOUR OIL!
OOPS! Sorry for the death of your friends and family!
How would you like CHINA coming to the US to "set you free" from the poverty and evils of Capitalism, and KILL your friends and family?
WHY, they hate us!
U.S. to African Nations and NATO: We need to get together and stop Qaddafi from killing his own people and call it a "Humanitarian Effort".
Ooooops, sorry about those "errant missiles". Time to put troops on the ground and find out who those rebels are.
Oops. It would appear those humanitarian bombs actually CAN kill civilians.....
Shocker.
natos magic hope and change bombs
It's time for USA to pull out and let NATO do what they want.
Did you hear Gate's speech? We are NATO. This Libyan adventure would screech to a halt if Obama changed his mind about sending US. Forces.
It's time for NATO to pull out and let the Libyans do what they want.
We should have NEVER agreed to this in the first place.
this stinks so bad, even the paid media have no means of containing the stink....
there would be nothing to exaggerate if the topic were not true to begin with.
NATO cant seem to make up its mind, however 1 thing is clear from this end, the rebels are a military force. rebel or military NATO, make up or minds will you?
guessing thus far as well, it is possible those NATO have killed thus far on Daffy's team they can not comfirm, could easily been hit by NATO.
military armor? this far back already? I dunno bout you folks, but when a country has a government in place, and it has people fighting useing armor and rockets and so on....usually they are a military force then. being these ARE the ONLY people fighting for this NEW government.
again you have 2 sets of troops fighting, ones loyal to Daffy, one loyal to?? obviously you have more than 1 set involved in this, yes fighting it tooth and nail to tell us these rebels are actually, military.
well thanx for pointing that out to us.... cause from our end here, it doesnt really sound nor seem like this is the case at all.
JAVE - agree. So what part of the War Powers Act doesn't Obama understand? Why does he think he has the right to use our tax dollars without Congressional approval? Oh yeah, he is above it all. What Constitution?
Both sides in Libya hate our guts. The rebels are just using us to get air support. We need to stay the hell out of that, and buy oil from whoever wins. Either way, it sure as hell is not going to be the US that wins with anyone in the Middle East.
@ megalodon
WOW!... if you dont work for fox new, you should....to take snippets and add your twisted republican talk points to it in such a manner......BRILLIANT!
Ah but the Republicans attacked Obama for not engaging in Libya "soon enough"...enough hypocrisy really.
the point is, Nobama had all the time in the world to go before congress prior to his vacation, congress had planned on him asking, were waiting..... thats one part of the issue. the other is, what right do WE as a NATION have to interfere with how another nation takes care of buisiness? we dont, not any more than any other country has a right to interfere with ours! Our job.... isnt to tell other nations what to do. our JOB.... is to take care of our own, everything else is just political talk, unless someone decides they have big enough nads to come here and tell US what to do....then ya, its azz kicking time. Since WWII ended, our nation has had a chip on its shoulder with whoever steps into the presidency, and its getting a bit out of hand.
Eric...
"where's the meat?" I don't believe you...show your facts. Which republicans "attacked" Barry for not going into Lybia sooner...please do tell!
Oh, and before you jump all over me for the misspelled Libya...
cantakenomore says:
"Which republicans "attacked" Barry for not going into Lybia sooner...please do tell!"
John McCain led the charge in that attack, but there were others also. What's that? You say that John McCain isn't a "real" Republican? The party line goes on and on and on and on and.......
Joe,
you like others missed the point. he was supposed to go before congress to get permission....
Congress was waiting for this request to be made, yet he basically said "well you guys are for it anyway, so here we go". then.... after congress saying "wait a sec there Barry, we may be behind you on this, but there are still rules you have to follow".
Well Barry the Clown in return thus far as basically said "fu*k you guys, i already went ahead with it, and because i am king of this here nation, i'll do it anyway because i am above the law."
just like when he lied on his law application, like when he didnt pay his tickets, just like everything else thus far...Barry the Clown calls the shots, not congress, not the constitution he swore to uphold, nothing but king Barry the Clown tells King BARRY the Clown what to do.
Who is this "we"? "We" haven't had the option to agree or disagree....our president is doing this without congressional approval. These actions are all on his own.
In case you missed the last two years....Obama is definately not interested in "we"
Joe M...
What's that? You say that John McCain isn't a "real" Republican? The party line goes on and on and on and on and.......
I never said that but I wish you would show proof where John McCain "attacked" Barry for not going into Libya sooner...can you post the statements he used, or are you simply remembering that you kind of sorta possibly albeit momentarily thought you had an inkling of something that someone said about McCain...or was that McDonalds...?
cantakenomore:
Sorry, you're the one with the defective memory on this one. I don't keep a video library of every statement by every Republican candidate. I'm sure Rachel Madow could find a tape of mcCain's statement. But Republicans rely on the concept that people will forget what they say after a week or two so that they can flip-flop at will. Romney and Pawlenty are famous flip-floppers. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman are more known for talking trash as if they just woke from a drunken stupor.
Megalodon -
I think I prefer yesterday's headline that they're using schools and mosques to shield military installations.
Translation: We bombed a school and a church, so uhh.....let's just call them "human shields".
There must be a lot of profit in the waging of war. I'm sure I do not understand how. We seen to be a country looking for a war, and if we can't find one we'll damn well start one. The right wingers justified all Bush's wars and shenanigans and the left cursed him. Now the lefty's justify the President and his shenanigans and the righties curse him. Something screwy here. I guess it must depend on which party is conducting the war whether or not the particular war is justified. Warring over war? Hmmmmm? I'll just be goddamned if I don't prefer we pay some notice to the depth of quicksand we're standing in here in the US. Do the war stuff when we can all, and I mean all, share in the wealth of the plunder!
It USED to be GREAT for us. WW2 Was the reason we recovered from the Great Depression so fast. EVERYTHING was made here and rationed so we didn't have to buy anything outside our country. Our war machine kicked into gear and pulled us out of the fire. Now, EVERYTHING with the exceptions of small arms, are mainly produced outside of our country. Those countries are maing a KILLING right now off of us.
FactsNotRhetoric thats nonsense pseudo economics. Wars produce nothing except economic devastation. This is the kind of cr@p thinking that wrecked our economy.
SacramentoMike: If you're right then we are over our heads in pseudo economics and reaping magnificent dividends in returns of nothing, which is bearing interest at a high percentage rate of death, destruction and ill will amongst the worlds people. Odd as an iceberg moving through hell.
Does THREE TRILLION in the hole ring a bell?
The goal of this "kinetic military action" has changed from defending people under attack by Muammar Gaddafi's forces to outright regime change. Even by the Obama administration's own admission, American soldiers are in Libyan waters and conducting missions in Libyan airspace. Sounds a hell of a lot like 'hostilities' as defined in the War Powers Act. And as such, President Obama is clearly in violation of the law. I don't necessarily disagree with the removal of Gaddafi from power, but I do disagree with the way Obama is going about it.
The messiah can get us into all the illegal wars he wishes. He can kill all the women and children without any fear of the liberals complaining one little bit. He can do no wrong in their eyes. Even when US missiles are killing innocence, they're good with it. They will deflect and distract, but most of all they will blame BUSH.
SacMike.....we all know history isn't your strong point since you still think Israel was the aggressor in the Six Days War, that they don't hold control of the Golan Heights and that Palestine was a country until Israel came along, but facts are facts. World War Two was the NUMBER ONE REASON we recovered from The Great Depression.
This, accompanied by The New Deal, which no matter how many neocons don't want to admit it, had some GREAT economic recovery stimulus in it, were the 2 major reasons the Great Depression ended.
PS - that quote was straight from HuffPo, a site I normally never use. It's like the liberal equivalent of Faux News, but in their atempt to justify using Keynesian Economic policies in today's market, they admitted that WW2 did in fact help end The Great Depression when paire with The New Deal.
Who attacked first?
Well, considering that Syria, who was part of this "Arab League" that was attacking had been shelling Israel from the Golan Heights for days, and, by international war law, amassing armored divisions on the border of an enemy you have already declared war upon, is the same thing as passing the demarcated borders (You'll remember, this is what got us involved in the first Gulf War among other things, but when Saddam amassed his army on Kuwait's border we showed up), make the Arab League the aggressor.
L2Readahistorybook.
FactsNotRhetoric The Hasbara Israeli apologist, tries to excuse the illegal Israeli attack on its neighbors, using the Hasbara talking points, called: They were massing troops on our border.
Give it a rest, the excuses for Israels thuggery dont work. They are terrorists.
Mike....quick...tell us all the story you told me about why the Jews deserved the Holocaust.
This is the guy you guys are agreeing with, fyi. He said the Jews were sneaky and underhanded which made them not to be trusted, so they brought the extermination of 6 million of them on themselves, and that and act of aggression from Israel, being justified or not, is terrorism to him.
I'll let you guys get back to your Family Reunion, or as you all call it, Speed Dating.
FactsNotRhetoric You are a typical Israeli pulling your victim whine while you conduct terrorism. Holcaust and anti Semitism ploys may impress you.
My opinion of holocaust and anti semitism claims is documented on Newsvine. I consider them Israeli abuse of the deaths of people. Shame on you exploiting dead people you have no respect. Then again it is a form of terrorism.
So you admit that you believe that the Holocaust was brought upon the Jews by themselves then?
So tell me, what was it again that made it okay to slaughter 6 million Jews?
Back to your trailer, cousin f%$er.
FactsNotRhetoric, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
@Sally,
nooooo not when it was getting so good! just kidding.....
I guess you can advocate the slaughter of 6 million people based on race and religion, but call somone a name and yer outta here! LOL.
JimKendall at 10:33 PM June 18, 2011
And the "apartment bombing" in Tripoli was beyond doubt staged, exploded by the Gaddafi regime; who are all Liars, from Top to bottom.
They would take a residential building - give the occupants a few hundred dinars and shoo them - blow it up and scream "NATO did this to these poor people!"
Gaddafi has so entirely suppressed the Libyan masses (now, the "Rebels"); that those in Tripoli, who have jobs and income under his spell, are so loath to lose the "security" of his command that they will Lie and watch their fellows die.
Muammar Gaddafi is a Coward, a Sissy, and all the Green-clad slogan-singers are his illicit brood, a pack of Lying Jackals.
Ohhh! Those names will certainly hurt their feelings.
Beyond doubt? Where are the facts to back that up?
We're not paying the people to get out before we blow the building. If he put some anti-aircraft on that building we would destroy it. We would have no choice, such is war.
JAVE,
This isn't a war, did you not get the memo? We've got bombs and warplanes and ships and missiles and killing and death but no war, nope none whatsoever.
You must have your boots on the ground. Where is such in depth knowledge comes from
Noooo this is a humatarian mission...we are helping thses people...we don't know who we are helping and we don't know who will take over but it must be right cause Obama the almighty is going at it alone...no support from Congress and no support from the American people....Obama is shaping up to be like a character in the book of Revelations and Daniel more and more.......
^ Jim's right out of it. Jim, loosen the tinfoil helmet a bit, that might help.
kinds funny in its own sick way all of this with Libya. I think what happend was, Nobama the Clown feeling he has had this compititon thing going on with Bush....Race to ruin, thought he would try to show Bush up, by taking down a leader in less time than it took for Saddam. Daffy his back seemingly against the wall, this was, well so he thought, like shooting a fish in a barrel.....lol...
in the back of Nobama the Clowns mind my guess there is a little child who has been throwing a tantrum screaming "why! why wont he just give up! why wont he die! why! why! why!". Because Nobama the Clown, you underestimated ol' Daffy, thats why... Looks like the Clown has been Clowned thus far. Maybe with a pinch of luuck Nobama....then just maaaybe.
Wait a second, why are you piling on Jim for advancing what may very well be the truth?
First just let me say, we should NOT be in Libya, with or without NATO, period. Especially while right next door, Syria burns and we do nothing but feeble economic sanctions.
But considering the dishonesty, corruption and general unwillingness to play nice exhibited by the Qaddafi regime over the past 40 years, is it really SO farfetched to think that they did stage the whole thing?
There's no proof they did. But there's no proof they didn't. And when considering the source, I don't think tin foil hats are necessary at all to consider a scenario whereby which they did exactly that to make us and NATO look even worse than we already do.
Prag,
at this point i dont think anyone outside of NATO and Nobama have any true insight to the real going ons. Takeing into consideration, NATO has been dropping bombs, and flinging missiles day and night.... i think there is some truth and lies to both sides. in the article it even says there is a civilian death tool, but the numbers might be a bit skewed... thing is, it doesnt come right out and say it, its one of those "have to read into what is said" type things. lots of good wording tho, trying to make it seem like not 1 civilian has been a casualty. That every hit has been a surgical hit and only military targets and personell have been destroyed or killed.
my bad....
meant to add Libya (Daffy), into that equation...
PragmaticToAFault first of all, just in case they dont have maps where you come from, Syria is over 1000 miles from Syria with at least two countries seperating it. There might, just might, be the possibility that Obama does not think like Bush. He might not WANT to start two wars. So far his actions are responisible for starting the winding down process in BOTH of Bushes wars and in fact there are no longer combat troops in Iraq and when he had Bin Laden killed it eliminated the reason for them in Afghanistan as well and reductions are already starting.
Now this is not to pick on you Prag, but I want to address the rest of these páthetic whiners up there. For everyone of you cowards, let me ask you WHERE WERE YOU from 2001-2008? I was right here reading comments when Bush invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq and all of you were cheering him on. Ill tell you were you were. You were hiding in a closet afraid to dare to critisize anything they did or you would be persecuted, like so many others were. Same thing happens during Stalins and Hitlers time. But NOW all you courageous "Patriots" are screaming for Obamas blood, calling him a terrorist because the missiles killed a few Libyans. Where are your freaking TEARS and shouts of righteous indignation for the over 100,000 Iraqis, most of whom were civilians were murdered in an illegal invasion. Bush has Congressional approval? No Bush DID NOT have Congressional approval simply because his case to invade was based on his "evidence" of WMDs. PERIOD. We now know (and would have then if we had just THOUGHT about it), that the evidence was not just in error but WAS FAKED.
But hey, Republican and conservativel leaders tell you what to say and believe and not one of you actually THINKS. You spout slogans that dont make sense and support someone running for president who thinks dinosaurs lived 4000 years ago and that Africa is a country.
Again, sorry Prag. But I DO have a comment for you as well. In America anyone who is charged with crimes (dishonesty and corruption), has the right to a trial so they can defend themselves. The bottom line is this. Qaddafi is the leader of that country and there are citizens who dont like him there who have chosen to revolt. Now. Lets go back 10 years. When Bush was elected by the Supreme Court in 2000 and there were so many protestors that he could not even leave his limo to walk to the White House I would say that was an uprising. NOW, what would we have though if Mexico had started firing missiles into San Diego and Los Angles in support of the "rebels"? Or maybe a French Missile Cruiser firing some missiles into DC?
This is a new trend in international politics. During the 1960´s the Soviets used to send military advisors into Souteast Asian and African countries in support of "communist rebels" and we called them an evil empire (Reagans words). NOW we are doing the EXACT SAME THING. We are nation building for our own benifit.
What a bunch of horse crap, Carlos.
Do liberals lack any ability in the "turn of a phrase" department? Are you THAT literal, that "next door" can ONLY mean they share a border? Are they not both middle eastern, primarily muslim countries with dictators that have been oppressing and killing their own people for four decades? Wow, I'm sorry you have so much trouble with that concept.
WHINE WHINE WHINE, WHERE WERE YOU!!!!!
Refer to my earlier post on this same vine, 1.16, and STFU.
It's called consistency of conviction. No, I did NOT support the Iraq war, and although the Afg war seemed like a good idea at the time - since terrorists there had just assisignated 3,000 Americans - when it became obvious we were going to get stuck there? We should have left.
Pick on me? You wish you could, since you've vomited forth in that post a series of lies and exaggerations you are incapable of "picking on me". Feel free to continue trying. Pathetic.
and you know this how.........?
and from my european standpoint you are an idiot..........
too sad..........
“Today marks the opening of a new era in U.S.-Libya relations that will benefit Americans and Libyans alike” - Condoleezza Rice May 15, 2006
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." - George Bush May 12, 2008
he was right, Nobama the Clown is still trying to figure just what the Oval Oddice is supposed to be used for, and hasnt a clue at what happens inside it. what was the 1st report on that..... for watching his favorite B-ball team was it?
freedman...
sources...please! Obamadrones are so transparent!
Feeling kinda dumb today now that NATO admitted to it Jim?
Why can't we just arm both sides? You know, like the good old days.
Civil war style carpetbagging lol
And a lot more profitable too. Hell maybe by now we'd have made 2 billion instead of being 1.2 billion in the hole.
Why are we in Libya? NATO decides it is a backward country that would be fun to bomb. They also do not have enough ammunition so good ol Uncle Sam will choke it up for them. Funny how we can go to the aid of the rebels in Libya but ignore the slaughter taking place in Syria. Oh Obama will call for sanctions on them but has anyone ever heard of sanctions working? Ever? In an attempt to kill Qaddafi we are now killing more innocent children. Perhaps we should let Libya sort out Libya's affairs. Now future generations of Libyans will hate us passionately. Time to GTFO! No more unneeded wars as our economy is wrecked enough.
Ditto! We are in Libya to depose Muammar Gaddafi - like him or not - which is against all and any international and our own rules.
President Obama said we are there to kill Ghadafi's conscripts. I'm told Ghadafi himself is immune from attack. This is to protect the little people I'm told.
Yhis is to protect the little people????
Since when did bombing the crap out of the "Little people"-constitute protection?
^ Hey! It's humanitarian aid. And we have warehouses FULL of humanitarian bombs ....
curtonthebeach IMAO!!! How does a bank forclose on a home paid for in cash? And who pays for a home in "cash"? Banks forclose on homes because people dont make the payments. Simple as that. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a bank to foreclose on a home you own. BUT, if you owe them money, then yes, they can take your home.
If you will not be able to make payments for the years of the loan, DONT MAKE IT. But when you take out a loan and cant make the freaking payments dont blame the bank. The banks mistake was making loans to people with less than ideal credit. They were making quarter of a million dollars home loans to people with histories of bankruptcies and forclosures.
New banking regulations put into place by the Obama Admin. (regulations dont away with during Bushes term and THIS allowed banks to make all these stupid loans) stop all this. If your FICO score is below 700 you will NOT be getting an unsecured loan. Simple as that.
There's nothing humanitarian about war. That is some ethical word that politicians use to white wash the fact that people are going to die.
hey beanne,
even if this did happen the way the Libyans are saying....i don't think the objective is to "bomb the crap out of the little people"... get a life and stop trolling message boards.
NATO is the largest terror threat on the planet. Libya had the highest standard of living on the African continent until NATO destroyed the country. The innocent they are killing in Libya aren't considered humans; just collateral damage. Is Gaddafi killing civilians? Yes, he is, because they are rebels trying to overthrow the Libyan government. NATO is a cowardly organization that never accomplishes anything positive. A reputable NATO would be attacking Somali pirates and stop their nation building failures.
Wait until the appropriations bill to help Libya rebuild the country from all the damage NATO caused.
Ha! That's not saying much when the per capita GDP is still dirt!
Could have been justified if the Libyan regime was rounding up citizens into concentration camps, maybe. Why are we involved in that debacle anyway? To help the poor Libyans, after helping the poor Iraqis and poor Afghans?
How many more poor, tortured urchins are we going to squander crates of tax dollars for? How many even want that kind of "help?" We haven't helped the Eskimos either. Don't they have a revolution to start too?
Goldbar, read up on your assumption. Where else do people get free health care, free education, lots of money when the marry, very cheap or even free fuel. Not here but in Libya!
And dont' forget, AngelP, they get disappeared when they disagree with the regime that may (or may not) "give" them all of those goodies. Or just shot in the head.
If you prefer freebies from the government - a government that literally lives like kings - to freedom, there are many countries in which you could choose to reside.
Most of us here in the United States of America prefer freedom.
What freedom? Banks foreclosing on homes paid for in cash?
The freedom of being denied healthcare?
The freedom of being denied education unless your family can pay for it?
The freedom of electing our Government? (you don't, you only elect the people who elect the Government)
Stop distorting and lying.
If someone was foreclosed after paying cash, there's a hell of a lot more to the story than just that. Was it a bankruptcy, whereby the house was sold to pay off other debts? Was the cash obtained illegally, thereby making the entire sale null? Where there is no security, there is no claim. Prove that claim or admit you're lying.
The government run "insurance" we have already denies people care.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43416157/ns/health-health_care/
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf
Aside from which, it is a Federal law that NO ONE can be denied care. You might end up having to pay for it. Do you walk into a car dealer and demand a car, just because you need one and expect to get one? Then why would you think you can walk into a doctor's office and not expect to have to pay for it?
Let me guess: you're one of the no liability voters who pays no income taxes at all and wants someone else to pay for everything for you? If so, are you prepared to pay at least 25% of your income in taxes to pay for your, and everyone elses, medical care? Because in countries that have government run healthcare, that's what happens - no exceptions.
Where are you even coming up with the education bullcrap? No, you can't go to a private school for free - that's why they work. People actually care what happens to their kids in those schools, since they're paying for the public cesspools via property taxes AND the tuition to keep their kids out of them.
And finally, if you're so unhappy with this country - get out. Go live in Greece. Things are going GREAT with their "free" healthcare and "free" retirement at age 50, etc etc etc etc.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/bank-of-america-forecloses-on-house-that-couple-had-paid-cash-for/1072632
http://foreclosuredefensenationwide.com/?p=208
Sounds like a Ghahafi PR flack.
A reputable super powers that includes China and Russia would tackle Somalia's issue. Super powers have become the world's bully and terrorist as well.
Oh, right. One stupid ass mistake on the part of Bank of America, that they will pay DEARLY for in court ( and rightly so ) and therefore you want to imply that ALL people having their homes foreclosed upon are having that happen after they paid cash?
Bullcrap, utter and complete bullcrap.
Epic fail on your part. There were well over a million foreclosures in 2010, and you can point to EXACTLY one that backs up your bullcrap claim that people are getting their houses foreclosed on after paying cash right and left.
Yes, America is a HORRIBLE place because a bank made a very bad mistake.
Move to Greece. You won't have a home.
And I notice you have no defense for the rest of the nonsense.
Don't bother. Someone that lies and distorts as gravely as you did gets put on my ignore list.
Prag- He has some validity to his statement. There are people living in this country that have no health care simply because they can not afford it. I have a friend that is paying close to a 1000 a month for health care. Most people can not take that kind of a hit. My children go to college but it isnt Harvard ot Yale or Duke because I can not afford it. And we only get to vote for the morons that the dems or Repubs send out there and we all no dem or repub they are not always the best. Our bests simply do not want to takle it or they fear the microscope that will be shoved up their butt putting their entire lives out in the open and magnifying any mistake they made in the past. I love the US this is the greatest country on Earth but we are not perfect and we have the same problem that other countries have Greed,Corruption, Crime and the people have lost control of the govt
Do you think you have the right to send your child to Harvard or Yale, if you can't afford it? NO, YOU DON'T. Your children could have busted their tuckuses in high school and applied for scholarships, grants or other aid and gone. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO HARVARD.
Do you understand, at all, why health care costs are out of control in this country? I'm sure you blame the insurance companies, but the fact is it's the already existant government programs that account for about half the health care spending that are to blame for COSTS. And COSTS are what drive up the price of insurance. The government pays as little as 60 cents on the dollar for the COST of any given procedure, so what does the provider do? Pass that on to the privately insured in the form of COST shifting, which therefore results in higher insurance costs.
I'm no fan of insurance companies, but if you think the government is a better choice?
Then move to Canada. Seriously. That is NOT what we're about in this country, letting the government nanny state dictate our lives and being taxed accordingly.
The healthcare system in this country STILL needs major reforms, but NOT in the form of even more government take over. We need LESS government in the mix, not more.
Moreover, we've tried the "more government" approach, and this is what we got. Are you really convinced that doing the same thing is going to produce a different result?
whoa big boy i am against govt control but it is out of control period!! And yes I believe that my children deserve the same right to the SAME education as anyone else in this country. My daughter graduated 2nd in her class no scholorship to a top university my nephew graduated from a top university only to be turned down by that very university for Law School why? No rich daddy buying his way in or different color of skin. So you explain to me why my family is not as much inclined to go to a good school as yours or the next guy because I only make 50 -75K a year or because I am caucasian or because I live in a state that does not currently support our incumbent pres No i do not want more govt control just equality for my children and my family I work as hard as I can to help them and they bust their arse to do well in school. Why does one person get 60k in scholorship money when he ranks 17 and someone who ranks 2nd 8k i saw the amount of scholrships she applied for and was repeatedly turned down because I make a middle income while her friends whose family were worse off got more I saw her friends that were wealthy even get more because daddy knew someone I saw her minority friends get more and Ill have to admit it make me angry. My daughter just wants to get a quality education
I am against govt control of anything but you know that the insurance companies will not regulate themselves they are greedy they take my money then turn me down because of one reason or another or look for a way to turn me down and yes govt control will make it worse but there has to be a sysytem by which people can get med insur and not be turned down due to exist conditions or have a rate that is so high they simply can not afford it
Zheng He:
While this is going on in Libya, China is threatening and attacking Vietnam and the Philippines to take position of their island territories along the Pacific coast. These islands are well within the territorial waters of Vietnam and the Philippines and far from the territorial waters of China. China's leaders and military are the greatest threat to world peace. China's ordinary people are being dragged along in these plans and have no interest in forcing their will on their neighbors. Its all the plan of the Communist Party rulers of China.
The Chinese people are becoming more and more dissatisfied with Communist Party rule and there have been scattered riots around the country where police cars are overturned by rioters.
PragmaticToAFault
The point is that the Libyans have those rights and their Government can afford to pay for it, we don't and ours can't afford it anyway.
Didn't libya have the highest standard of living of any nation in africa, before we started bombing them?
No, the Libyans are given those things so they sit down and shut up, having reliquished anything approaching the freedom we enjoy in this country. The government in Libya shuts down the internet whenever it pleases, is that a fair trade for health care, a brutal dictatorship?
Interesting too that Libya gains much of its wealth from oil - something we're NOT allowed to do in this country, despite the fact that we have some of the largest natural reserves on the planet. That's not according to me, that's according to a Senate report.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=a567799b-802a-23ad-4d44-648c714d48c1
It's this simple: You either enjoy the freedom to succeed or fail, voice your opinion, pursue your life as unencumbered as possible by government, or reject that and trade those freedoms for false security. And the security is false, because just as the government gives - taken from someone else - it can take away.
You need only look to the streets of Greece to see the truth of this. If you can't understand that simple concept, nothing I say on these boards is going to convince you otherwise.
Mark -
Your presumption that Harvard is a "better" education than other schools half the price is where you're completely off base. If you want an end to croneyism, don't hold your breath. Liberals in this country have pretty much guaranteed it continues. If you doubt that, look where the people in our government - mostly liberals - went to college. Very few attended state schools.
However, if your children were denied a place at Harvard that you think they were entitled to, then take Harvard to court. That's why we have laws. If you experienced what you seem to be describing as reverse discrimination based on your claims that they didn't get in because you're white.... there are plenty of non-profit organizations that would love nothing more than to take your case - assuming you're telling something remotely approaching the truth of the matter - and bring Harvard to its knees.
I would remind of one other detail: Graduating number #2 in a class of simpletons may be worth less than graduating #18 or #182 in a class of relative geniuses. Not all high schools are created equal anymore, either, since the liberals in this country demanded the top be drug down instead of forcing the bottom up.
Nazi Germany had pretty high standards of living too. Economically and Militarily they were greater then the US in some aspects. So they had a few problems with unequal treatment of citizens, is that really a reason to get involved in minor hostilities with them?
"The alliance statement gave no figures on casualties from Thursday's airstrike, but said it regretted "any possible loss of life or injuries caused by this unfortunate incident."
This quote is about the accidental air strike on a Rebel convoy. When have you ever heard the "alliance" (NATO) make a similar statement about accidently killing civilians in Tripoli?
Yes, our leader in chief leads us into a mess, like usual, he does NOT know what a leader is.. ODUMBA! Thanks to you mindless robots who want change. WAKE up sleepers and lets get rid of CHANGE!! for the worse when it comes to libs/demos/socialists...
?? did you run out of meds?
NATO and the US have lied about Cluster Bombs being used by Qaddafi. Lied about "Viagra" being given to Qaddafi forces. Lied about this being a mission to "protect innocent civilians (carrying weapons)" when in realty it is a civil war. Lied by saying this has nothing to do with Libya's OIL. Barack Hussein Obama has even lied by saying this is not a war. American military are not in danger. BHO won't even approach Congress to get it's advise and consent, etc.
Why shouldn't I believe the accidental killing of civilians? It is war. It happens! Don't deny it. As for the press. Obviously they are being controlled by BHO and the EU. Notice no mention of the anti-war protests going on in the EU.
Disinformation and misinformation, coupled with exclusionary press releases, keeps the populace numb, dumb, and ignored. As per policy enacted by the military/medical/industrial/insurance mega-complex.
Would you like fries with your complex today, sir?
You Know what? I just LOVE how the American public did a complete 180 on Libya as soon as we entered it. Before we went in, everyone was like "Obama is a horrible person for not helping those rebels overthrow their tyrannical dictator!" later that same week, "Obama is a war criminal for starting another war!"
Seriously, what the f*ck is wrong with all of us? Does the american public have a mass case of oppositional defiant disorder? I mean, I know fox news is dedicated to attacking Obama even if it does mean making no sense and having opinions that change as fast as the wind, but what's wrong with the rest of us? Are we THAT susceptible to the media? Do we really have THAT weak of opinions? Is our collective memory measured in nanoseconds?
I'm sticking with my original opinion. Qaddafi is insane and not fit to lead a nation, he needs to be taken down. There is a reasonable limit to how much effort we should be putting towards this, but I don't think airstrikes and missile attacks cross that limit.
[/rant]
Lobster: BS. There is nothing wrong with "all of us;" there is something wrong with your argument.
There was no outcry against Obama for not bombing Libya. That was his idea, and was probably done solely to distract America from his failure to keep his campaign promises to "save" or create jobs, and his inability to accomplish what he bragged he could accomplish. The excuse, "It was much worse than I thought," was starting to make people realize he was either too stupid to know what he was getting into, or he was lying to get elected.
Gadhafi was accused to shooting unarmed protesters, by Obama. Yet the pictures showed that the insurgents were well-armed and attacking. If Obama is interested in protecting unarmed civilians, why is he afraid to bring his case before Congress, or at least to the public? He is engaged in a cynical political ploy to distract the American people from his failures at home. Why is it that he continues to support NATO's attacks assisting the armed fighters? They aren't civilians. Barack Obama is a coward and a bully. He should resign and face the music.
lobster.
re write your post and every time replace gadhafi with saddam hussein. then re read and maybe you will understand.
are the reasons you and obama share for being in libya any better than reasons for invading iraq?
humanitarian effort is as big a lie as weapons of mass destruction. especially when your efforts continue to kill humanity!
Mr. Lobster
I would as again if you felt the same in 2003, when US attacked Iraq. These are the same people who yelled and screamed that GW kills innocent civilians.
Who are now the same ones protesting the killing of civilians in Libya. Everyone seems to have it both ways...Pro when their guy is in power against when their guy is not.
There are no clear Doves or Hawks in the USA anymore, just people pushing an ideology only based if their guy is in power. we now have the new flip flop american generation
I see more and more Americans turning anti-war, on both sides of the political spectrum. Too bad our president feels that we should spend out tax dollars on "his" war! I was never for this action. MANY Americans opposed it from the start!
Right On Lobster you said it perfectly, Take down Gadhafi . I don't think he could run a 7 eleven much less his country that psychotic monkey.
And still Libya have free education, free health care, interest free loans to help with home purchase. Seams to me like Quaddafi is doing a better job in running his country than the elected officials are in the USA, perhaps give him the job as PONTUS.
nitrocycle Now lets see. Quaddafi couldnt run a 7-11. But HE is the head of state in Libya and has been for 40 years. Now tell me Sir, what is YOUR JOB TITLE?
Yeap, Libya is so bad, they dont allow Israelis like Madoff to screw Libyans out of every last dollar they have. That makes Libyans the enemy of Israelis.
Israelis want Libyans to be like America, where they can whine victim and scam Americans out of every penny they have. Just wait till Israelis take American land like they took Palestinian land and stick Americans on reservations.
Oh wait they are doing that already, Americans in tent cities and living under bridges in cardboard boxes.
DEMOCRACY NOW! DEMOCRACY NOW!
Teach those Libyans the wonders of American/Euopean-style Democracy: skimpy clothing, how to have "safe sex" at age 9, open pornagraphy, sex shops, drugs available for them and their children, a President who spits in the face of Congress, and, oh yes, booze, lots of booze. What a wonderful place it will be. ... What? Don't think the Muslim Brotherhood will allow a democratic vote to replicate the wonderful, superior Western culture? Why, how could our law professor, ivy league President ever be so naive?
Anyway, on with the effort to kill one petty dictator, right? It's time those millions of vile, unarmed civilian Libyans who support their government over the insurgents, are defeated by Obama the ass-kicker and his European, oil-hungry allies. Let's show our true colors and our support for one side in this new Vietnam/Iraq style intermeddling incursion. Waive those flags. (It is becoming increasingly evident that Obama is no better at kicking ass in war than he was with kicking BP's, and that he is even worse at keeping his campaign promises.)
A few innocents die for having been in the way? Well that's their fault for not leaving their homes and living in the desert, right? If they didn't want the overpowering foreign military bullies to kill them and destroy their city, they should've massed up and thrown their leader to the wolf-pack. It's their own fault their country is being destroyed by NATO, right? The self-righteous know no blame.
The U.S., NATO and profiteering military-industrial-complex at least have quit the pretext of protecting civilians. They are openly supporting insurgent armed killers, who will shoot those who oppose them dead with foreign-supplied armaments. Now that the insurgents have formed a government, and the NATO countries are recognizing it as such, it is clear that the U.S. is aiding one country in a war against another. But that's OK, because before many of those who are being slaughtered were born one man was involved in killing white people, right? They are all guilty as a people for that one sin against the West, so it is justified to exact revenge on all of them, right? NO, it is not right, it is ethnic cleansing, and it is WRONG! It will be a bloodbath.
@Jose Cuervo (Lopez) - What about the real war in Iraq to kill one petty dictator that was started by the former commander in chief? In Iraq there have been approximately 4,500 US soldiers killed and tens of thousands injured many severely. And the cost of war in Iraq so far is about $800 million dollars and counting......
rockjock, I'm pretty well convinced that the Iraq attack, irrespective of whether Bush believed anything about WMDs, was retaliation by Bush the Son for Saddam's attempt to kill Bush the Father. As for the cost, I don't know the number but would bet it is closer to $800 Billion than $800 million. News reports say that over $6 billion in cash sent by the U.S. government for payoffs in that area (Iraq/Afghanistan) is unaccounted for.
Ummm....What about the reality of Qaddafi and his regime killing & raping his own people??? Sheesh, somebody had to do something... Don't blame NATO, blame Qaddafi...
$800 million was the cost for the first week of the Iraqi war
gold bars.....why are we not in syria too? the humanitarian casualties have been significantly higher there.
why just libya and not everywhere else atrocities are ongoing?
humanitarian effort is the excuse, just like weapons of mass destruction was the excuse.
at least bush had congress approval.
obama plays golf instead.
Exactky, Dennis.
I find it amusing that some of the very people that attacked Bush are now supporting Barry! Do you people even KNOW the standard of living in Libya. Dare you to check it out!
Libya was one of the healthiest economies, with the lowest debt in the world.
It's odd, isn't it? Every country on earth is in debt.
List of countries by debt amount
3 Gold Bars When Moshe Katsav Israeli president was raping his own people, did your self righteous keyster advocate bombing Israel?
Go ahead, advocate bombing Israel so that you dont come off as a hypocritical slimeball. You can blame Katsav too to keep it fair.
Katsav was accused of raping one person and sexually harassing others. He resigned, was arrested and convicted of his crimes and went to jail. Isn't that the way things are supposed to work?
Qadaffi kills and rapes thousands and gets richer while a lot of "his" people starve.
The UN comes up with a nice civilized-sounding rationale for NATO military action in Libya, in order to placate naive liberals. The world is actually a far more ruthless and brutal place, and NATO's true objectives reflect the necessary level of pragmatism. I believe that NATO recognizes that Qaddafi is a serious threat to peace and stability in the region. That means he is also a threat to world economic stability, especially the EU. For that reason he must be eliminated.
The US and NATO also recognize that the "rebels" are probably fronting for radical Islamic organizations who are just looking to increase their own power by taking over an oil-rich country. If they succeed, the EU is threatened even worse. It's a real dilemma.
The solution is for NATO to give the rebels just enough support to keep fighting and using up their resources. But not enough to win outright. Gaddafi is thus forced to keep on fighting and using up his military resources. The conflict is, thus, weakening both a tyrannical Islamic regime and the Al Qaeda supported opposition groups. When they are both sufficiently weak, there will be a better chance to install a rational regime that is more apt to be a productive member of the world community.
The above is just my opinion, but I think it is a realistic scenario.
Kannin: your analysis makes sense. Any historical examples of where the idea has ever worked?
Excellent question Jose - let me do some research and I will be back shortly.
In 1877, the British annexed the South African Republic (Transvaal Republic), for Britain using a special warrant. The Transvaal Boers objected, but as long as the Zulu threat remained, found themselves between the proverbial rock and hard place; they feared that if they took up arms to resist the British annexation actively, the Zulus would take the opportunity to attack. They also feared a war on two fronts, namely that the local tribes would seize the opportunity to rebel and the simmering unrest in the Transvaal would be re-ignited.
How did the naive conservatives get placated? With cash payouts? Because they sure sound placated enough, by the deafening silence from them in DC against this new war.
ROFL, cash payouts to the conservatives???????
Ohhh AngelP, Your incisive analysis of the Libyan situation is simply breathtaking in its scope, logic and well-supported arguments. All other posts simply pale before your clarity and intelligence!
This is absolute propaganda. You, NBC, have provided me with exactly zero evidence that civilian casualties have occurred. But that's not stopping you from splashing on your front page some lines that Qadaffi's minders have given you. Your reporters have been holed up in the Rixos so long, that by now they are nothing but tools of the Qadaffi regime. Get Engel on the job to do some real reporting, because so far CNN's Robertson has been running circles around you on Libya.
The evil war maven US Secretary Hillary Clinton and Patriot Act violating President Obama have been extorting and bribing African Union Ministers and Nations with Billions in free Taxpayer cash dollars IF they'll side with the US Empire and oppose Gadhafis Libya.
For 40 Years, Gadhafi and his Family have invested, helped and freely given millions to a great many African nations to help with their economy's, overcome health, food, education problems. Gadhafi's son freely gave millions to President Obama's foster nation Kenya to help them afford democratic elections.
IS THIS HOW the Clinton Family and Obama repay Africa? By bombing the very African nation whose Libyan Wealth Fund brought prosperity, pride and economic growth to all African nations?
IS THIS HOW the Obama Family repay a nation that took in 1 MILLION poor improvished Black African immigrants from over 25 African Nations and gave them free college education anywhere in the entire world, free medical and health care?
IS THIS HOW the Obama Family repays Gadhafi for turning Libya's dismal 10% literacy rate into it's outstanding 80% literacy rate?
What is the message you are sending here Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton? If any African non-Apartheid Nation prospers, then BOMB THEM? IS that your jack wagon message??
Someone posted that as a dictator Gadhafi was, a petty dictator, a benefactor.
He's a terrorist and a mass murderer whom killed innocentmen, women and children admittedly by ordering the Lockerbie bombing. Where is the outrage? Do your homework, this devil has been hiding for years from his crimes. Before he does go down I'm afraid he will commit many more mass murders.
I agree it is not our responsibility but if it were up to me we would stop targeting Libyan military and just start pounding the earth he is hiding under with Bunker Busters until his head explodes from the battering sound waves of our bombs exploding above him, bomb the rock he is under until we have no more bombs or he puts a gun to his head. Women and children on that plane.
Yup, looks like this is how the dictator in chief is repaying them.
yes do tell us all, where is YOUR OUTRAGE!? where is your outrage when they sent the lockerbie bomber home for a warm welcome? For the people cheering him as he stepped off the plane? FOR THE FACT THEY TRADED HIM FOR OIL DRILLING RIGHTS!??
where is OYUR outrage they sold the souls of that flight.... just for oil? tell us all now.... if you are so outraged... that Daffy gave to ok to blow up a jet full of innocent men women and children, why you are not just as or not outraged for the person who did it...who carried out the attack.... who DID THE KILLING to be set free for oil?
i dont know about YOU! but that pizzes me off a heII of a lot more than just wanting your so called revenge....you know NOTHING of the meaning!
Nobama the Clown has killed more innocent people with giving his orders for drone attacks....where is your rage?? where are your priorities??
The American presidency has become a metaphor for the seat of psychotic genocdial maniacs. Soon the word president will come to mean something worse than a Fuehrer.
Reagan also attacked Qadaffi...twice.
What say you to that?
Lockerbie Bombing: Libya was Framed http://is.gd/sOAerw
Former Pres.Reagans airstrike on Tripoli was clearly an attempt to assassinate Gadhafi coming from a Israeli false flag operation setting up Libya to be blamed for a Berlin bar bombing. The airstrike killed 23 Libyan children, among them was Gadhafi's own daughter.
One wouldn't blame Gadhafi for being bitter for such a outrage. However any evidence placing Libya involved with the Lockerbie bombing is thin to non-existant and fabricated as outlined in the above researched, referenced and outlined article. However the Mossad agents who apparently caused the false flag operation from a mobile communications set inside a Tripoli hotel room were said to be ON that Lockerbie Passenger Jet when it exploded silencing what they did and the hope they would confess to the public their evil deeds.
Gadhafi issued the first arrest warrant on Osama bin Ladin whom MI6/CIA hired and paid to assassinate Gadhafi in 1995. He failed when his East Libya Al Qaeda fighters located in Benghazi threw a hand grenade at Gadhafi and one of Gadhafi's female bodyguards threw herself on it, killing herself and saving Gadhafi.
If MI6/CIA had not blocked Gadhafi's Interpol Arrest Warrant on Bin Ladin, Osama bin Ladin would have not been able to attack both US Embassy's in Africa nor plan the 9/11 attack which killed thousands of US Citizens.
Hey Zheng He-HA, stop the KOOL-AIDE drinks! Gaddafi is laughing his ass off at all you cry babies! He plays the game well and makes fools of them all! Gaddafi is very smart do not forget it!
P.S. He made Oduma spend 1.8 Billion U.S. Tax Payers $$ so far and what did our Community Representative for a President get? "0" !
LIFG and AQIM are a known quantity and presence in East Libya and Both are Al Qaeda Branches,Both Banned by the West. Both former and current CIA directors as well as the Pentagon attorneys have stated Al Qaeda is among the East Libya Rebel Taliban bandits and inside their NTC council.
It is a clear violation of the Patriot Act LAWS to aid, arm, fund those Al Qaeda fighters whose sole aim is to impose Sharia Law across Libya which the vast majority of Libyan people do not want and to obtain the near unlimited Libya Oil wealth which the East Libya Rebels do not deserve nor should the West allow to have.
Libya,The Rebels & Al Qaeda Explained 4min. Video http://is.gd/aOLOQp Exposing their Democracy LIES
What's Really Happening in Libya and who's aiding the @Libya Rebel Taliban Al Qaeda fighters? http://is.gd/FyEVSI
Former CIA Director Gen.Hayden praises Gadhafi for his counter-terrorism help against Al Qaeda in Libya,Middle East http://is.gd/uZPGjQ
East Libya Rebel Taliban AQIM Al Qaeda fighters captured in possession of suicide belts in southern Tunisia http://is.gd/9AgG05
East Libya AQIM linked to Al Qaeda call for @Libya Jihad against Gadhafi and to dump the Benghazi council in the ditch. http://is.gd/ffDd52
What's Really Happening in Libya and who's aiding the Libya Rebel Taliban Al Qaeda fighters? http://is.gd/FyEVSI
100's of known Al Qaeda anti-American fighters among the East Libya Rebel Taliban fighters http://is.gd/nsGDlv
East Libya Rebel Taliban Commander admits 100's of known Al Qaeda anti-American fighters are helping him on the front lines http://is.gd/YdxDZS
Al Qaeda leaders confirm they have multiple East Libya Al Qaeda branch offices in Benghazi, Al Bayda, Al Marj and Dernah Shihata http://is.gd/zpRaWy
East Libya long lineage of Al Qaeda fighters in Benghazi,Iraq and Afghanistan http://is.gd/oQIF5T
Al Qaeda offering and supplying aid,arms,fighters to East Libya such a surprise! http://is.gd/HdZ4HE
Anti-Gaddafi Rebels Include Groups Linked To Islamic Anti-American Extremism http://is.gd/k1yYlL No Surprise to US Citizens!
Former jihadist Noman Benotman,renounced his Al Qaeda affiliation 2000, estimates 1,000 Al Qaeda jihadists in East Libya http://is.gd/7aGpH7 that is 10x those known to exist in Afghanistan and Pres.Obama is helping them!
A Very Well Documented and Written Exploration of 'The Lies Behind the West's War on Libya by Jean-Paul Pougala http://is.gd/A9ZHeY
With the ample documentation, references and links exposing the Al Qaeda links and associations with the East Libyan Rebel Taliban making Pres.Obama in clear violation of the Patriot Act LAWS by funding,arming and helping them.
Let's move to the 10th. worlds largest national wealth fund which was invested in well over 25+ African Nations and over 100 Nations around the world helping those nations prosper thru investments. Now stolen by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton thru the CIA.
The sick depraved theft of the Libya Wealth Fund came many months in planning and carrying out before the so-called CIA/MI6 planned uprising in East Libya. It appears they turned,bribed,extorted a Libyan finance minister to move all of the Billions in investments into US and UK banks where they planned to steal it.
Financial Heist of the Century: Confiscating Libya's Sovereign Wealth Funds http://is.gd/Z6rmua
The theft by Pres.Obama and Hillary Clinton of the Libya Sovereign Wealth Fund severly impacts 25+ African nations resulting in Starvation, a rise in Diseases, Greater Infant Mortality and Illiteracy in each of those nations.
It is a violation of International and US Laws to force a regime change by UN, NATO actions.
It is a violation of UN Resolution 1973 for the UN coalition and NATO to bomb Libyan civilian infrastructure which NATO has on a daily basis: Harbors, Fishing Boats, Civilian Fuel Tankers, Cargo Ships, Bridges, Residental Neighborhoods, TV Stations, Schools, Hospitals, Hospital Supply Plants making each of those violations separate but substantial War Crimes.
It is a violation of US Laws to attempt to kill much less succeed in assassinating a foreign nations ruler.
It is a violation of the US War Powers Laws to attack a foreign nation who has not attacked America nor poses a significant strategic direct hostile threat to America.
It is a violation of the US Patriot Act Laws to arm, fund, aid the Al Qaeda linked LIFG, AQIM East Libyan Rebel Taliban whose aforementioned terrorist organizations are both banned and blacklisted in America and many nations around the world.
Ron Paul tells fellow US Lawmakers,it is time for Pres.Obama to Obey the US Contitutional Laws http://is.gd/PfRwAG
Three years ago the same E. Libya Rebels joined Al Qaeda and killed US Soldiers in Iraq US DOD records SHOW http://is.gd/3z3Vwv
Now Secretary of State Hillary Clinton fears she has given Libya to Al Qaeda creating a huge Somalia.A huge Failure! http://is.gd/ywqBNx
Al-Qaeda sets up anti-American Islamic Emirate in E. Libya in Derna pushing Sharia Law led by former Gitmo prisoner. http://is.gd/EyybDC
Too long; didn't link
Geee Androloma, I knew about the things he posted. I am surprised you didn't. No, wait, you are just one of the naive sheep following Obama!
We kill Gadhafi and then Al Qaeda in Libya, no problem! So shove your pro-gadhafi crap. America wants both Gadhafi and Al Qaeda dead.
60% of Americans want an end of the illegal War on Libya, as does the Dutch and Germans, UK is about the same. This is a democracy, the majority of American people want US OUT of Libya, End the Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and start spending those Billions on rebuilding AMERICA instead of paying Halliburton 10x to 100x more to build a bridge in Afghanistan than the same bridge would cost to build here in USA.
Pres.Obama has lost his ethical and moral compass, it is utterly up to Congressional Lawmakers to force President Obama to either abide fully with US Laws and the US Constitution OR force him to follow them by charging him with their violations.
Sadly, I have seen this before where a US President is directly responsible for a large number of deaths and act like it's an addictive drug to them, they invariably want MORE and MORE as they visibly age overnight. The total numbers of innocent civilian deaths by Pres.Obama's drone strikes is staggering and mounting every single day. Such comes at a awful price on all Americans and creates hatred in those regions lasting for multiple generations.
"It is a clear violation of the Patriot Act LAWS to aid, arm, fund those Al Qaeda fighters whose sole aim is to impose Sharia Law across Libya which the vast majority of Libyan people do not want and to obtain the near unlimited Libya Oil wealth which the East Libya Rebels do not deserve nor should the West allow to have".
I can see where our stupid ass government gets their policies from much like your copy!
There are hundreds of prisoners languishing in overseas and US prisons because they either contributed money to a charity that was later linked to a terrorist organization or they vaguely aided someone associated with a terrorist organization. The Patriot Act Laws specifically comes down hard on even those that state they 'didn't know' xyz charity was funneling funds thru a dozen shell corporations into a terrorist organization.
Not the case with East Libya's LIFG and AQIM Al Qaeda terrorist organizations, they are clearly blacklisted by the US State Dept. and US Federal Government as Terrorist Organizations.
Neither US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton NOR Pres.Obama are above the laws of the US Consitution and Federal Laws such as the Patriot Act Laws apply equally against both of them as it did against those hundreds of imprisoned men and women in foreign prisons and US prisons.
Ok, then who is going to call them on the line? no one! FACT! To much on the line $$$$$, FACT! The untouchables............
We kill Gadhafi and then Al Qaeda in Libya, no problem! So shove your pro-gadhafi crap. America wants both Gadhafi and Al Qaeda dead.
When is the state Israel going to be added to the list of terrorists. Under US law Israels policies and actions are defined as international terrorism.
' Libyan officials said some seven civilians were killed in a NATO air strike in eastern Tripoli in the early hours of Sunday morning.Five families were living in the building which was hit, he said.'
Just another OOPSIE!?
Anyone who supports continued bombing of this huge,modern once beautiful city full of residents should have a Bomb dropped on Their Head!
Yeah,I'm pissed.
Pres.Obama is waging yet another US Unconstitutional War http://is.gd/xcJWVR
This genocide by NATO and the US is going to give rise to a thousand Al Qaedas.
Thank the Man, oh holy obama
Neither NATO nor the EU. have any UNO authority to interfere in a civil war wether in Libya or any other State. They have no authority to interfere in a country home policy. NeitherNATO nor any other alliance had, has, any legal authority to interfere in Iraq, in Afghanistan, the late Yougoslavia and now in Libya. If this is nowadays the decided policy then No state is secured from such political armed intervention, Greece for instance !
Who is talkng about Democracy and People rights ?
Very correct. I am glad you mentioned Yugsoslavia. So many times NATO (and of course US) intervenes in countries w/o the legal authority. In many cases, what is even worse, they do not really understyand internal real reasons and causes of a war. In many cases President of US wants to show his power and strength (or to divert attention to his scandal - remeber Monica Lewinski) and it sounds so noble that we need to protect civilians. Yes, in some cases some dictators killed hundrends or even thousands of people over years but than we go there and produce terrible disruction and killing of 100k people or so (joint number of dictator troops, civiliand and our troops). One should not forget that the dictator tropps are also people who must attend military by laws of the country - they are not in because they love and adore the dictator! On the other hand some similar or worse attrocities (in Africa nad elsewhere) go w/o US or NATO intervention.
As a libyan I can assure all these commentators that there is nothing more humiliating than being the under dog in this world and see these disgusting remarks from basically selfserving, selfcentered, selfabsorbed politicians ( republican or democrates), where the hell is your concern for libyans who are being killed by the criminal gaddafi on a daily basis in misrata, nalute. zliten, zintan ... etc and in all libyan towns. our fight will continue with or without nato, it's our fight, all we need is fairness, we need our country stolen (bu gaddafi) frozen assests to be able to hit back, so you do not have to spend a cent of your precious monies. The average Mohammed on the street of the middle east does not care about your monies or policies in our land , those above the age of40 do not trust the usa & those under the age of 40 do not care about its policies because we realise we are on our own when it comes to fighting our tyrants. We do not care for alqaaeda either, it is your ghost not ours , and you can use it in your political games,however, we appreciate very much the opinion and the support of the decent hard working average joe in america . The true middle east is represented by Al tahrir square in egypt , tunisia, syria, yemen, libya, bahrain..ETC AND NOT IN NY GROUND ZERO.
Which are we then: decent hard working average joes or dispassionate, hedonistic slobs? Can't have it both ways, can you?
It was none of our business and we should have never got involved.
You know I'm starting to think all these conspiracy radio and web sites to people in the military who have spoken out about this so called invasion are right about NATO and the US leading us into a possible world war.
If they keep up this kind of killing and intervention going into sovereign nations without any real approval by congress or the people or for any valid reason those other big players standing on the side lines who have invested interests with some of these countries just might begin to flex there muscles towards the US.
This may be the building blocks for a larger potential war and I am not joking around anymore.
NATO is the US it's just another name they made so they could hide behind it whenever they decide to commit acts like this.
The US needs to pull out of this bloody private civil war and begin patching up its damage done to some of its bigger allies before they become enemies.
If things continue like they are the US will be in more then 5 or more wars before the end of 2012.
The US has an economy that is about to do a full circle back into recession and we have a President who is plating golf with the opposition while taking our men and women into wars that we shouldn't even be in.
What the hell is wrong with this President or the people helping to back these attacks?
We may be heading for a international economic world war or worse if they loose Pakistan as an ally or try to mess with Iran or the damage be already done by invading Libya which has many ties around the world with other super powers as well.
I am really sickened to death to see this kind of ruthless command by our current President.
He may be sparking a fuse that will cause more harm then good to the whole bloody world.
I don't like hearing countries like China and Russia speak out openly against the US in a threatening way if it persists with these dangerous war games that they have no right to be involved with in the first place.
This is how the last big wars began with one small nation here then more over there and so forth then boom full blown war.
I really hope this is just political BS coming from China and Russia or I'm afraid we may be facing a possible super power impasse that could turn ugly real fast.
Obama needs to stop playing golf while letting the country fall into a deep recession and possibly gaining some big enemies while he is tee-ing off with Bone-Head.
I just don't know when or if there is ever going to be an end game to all these wars and I'm not talking about the documentary here folks this is becoming real by the day.
Stop the wars and start fixing the homeland meaning the United States Of America or what is left of it.
Obama gone after 2012 but his wars will go on long after he has left office and that will be his legacy as President.
I don't know who was worse Bush or Obama.
Good luck because were all going to need it if this gets out of hand.
The stupidity of mankind and his quest for war when will it end?
Who was worse, Bush or Obama?
Pfft, weren't they supposed to be the same? Big money interests won't tolerate a maverick for head of state. They need good, operating tools. Which is who they present us. Tools. Or puppets. Puppet tools.
It's really funny to here NATO saying that they did not know whether rebels have tanks to bombard real civilians who are pro-Khadafi's regime. Since the beginning of this fight for the petrol in Libya, rebels are using all types of sophisticated weapons to destroy the civilians who are against the western bandits. I think that the Nato's officers are using the well filtered information that the western media is showing. That is as if rebels are using only pistols and knives to go to the front.
NATO"S officers should know very well that the whole world knows what is going on and the whole world is against them!!
Oh poo! Who the F believes Tripoli Tom (formerly Baghdad Bob)! Qaddafi is killling his own people and blaming it on NATO!
It's really funny to hear Nato saying that they did not know whether rebels are using tanks to kill civilians who are siding with Khadafi's regime. Maybe they are using the well-filtered information that the western media is showing. That is, rebels are going to the front line with pistols and knives.
NATO's officers should put it clear in their mind that the whole world knows very well why they are fighting the Libyan's regime and the whole world is against Nato.
Long Live the true civilians!!
Long live true civilians!? True civilians can't live long with all these bloody wars going on every other day!
Western Media? If it were not for the west there would be no media.
If it were not for the west the middle east would still be burning camel crap for light, oh I forgot most of them are.
better than fat poeple
......what does that even mean fouad? Don't hate because everything you have to eat over there taste like rotted camel anus. Have a Big Mac on me. Maybe you won't blow someone up if your ass just has a Coke and a smile.
FactsNotRhetoric Israeli troll at it again
.....funny how I didn't mention Israel at all, you did.
Back to your Klan Rally, Mike.