the posting by YELDAR27 is right on target. He just thinks he is getting by with his immorality! Guess who saw it all? GOD! He will answer for his sins to the Lord Jesus Christ face to face very SOON! Thank God! All these idiots who are raking in millions from stupid people who send it, will be dealt with and get their JUST reward! Hell!!!

he'll answer to the mythical jesus-creature, huh? ooooo...

it's this kind of religious nuttery that breeds all the child-raping in the first place!!

Phyllis, your personal beliefs or facts as you consider them, have no value to persons other than yourself or people of simular ilk. You are entitled to them and I will defend your right to have them and even announce them. But.....just because you lack faith and your mind is limited to only grasping the tangible things around it, does not give you the right to dissuade others from their personal values and Godly moral principles. These Godly and yes biblical moral principles (no matter where we got them from) or if you believe in them, will still serve you and others for the good. If it isn't enough for you to internally hate or mock them and have your own beliefs, something is really missing in your life and you might want to look outward towards another direction.

godly moral principles. which ones are those? the Golden Rule values that christians ignore regularly? the jesus-directive to not hoard wealth and worldly goods, which they ignore while they fill church parking lots with Range Rovers, Cadillacs, Mercedes, Lexus and BMWs? The mindless, false reprints of history and science that they put into their BuyBull-Home-School textbooks to brainwash their kids? Or the jesus-directives that prohibit divorce, while they advertise for divorce lawyers on their church bulletin boards, and divorce and a rate of 1 in 2, which makes the jesus-myth smile and smile and smile... or how they smack down gays and lesbians at every opportunity during their modern-day witch hunts...

those godly moral principles??

Appreciate your attention as that is the very first step. Sorry that you are so bitter and I apologise if I have added to your woes. Life is tough enough as a true believer. I can only imagine your pain, the pain that you keep trying to express, without having anything else to cling to or believe in. It is easy to understand and believe in only tangibly proven scientific facts. It takes true courage to be willing to be open to ideas beyond physical boundaries and the limitations of the simple man. God bless.

LMAO. Well, like every armchair psychotherapist who tries to analyze someone from a few anonymous internet messages, you are completely wrong.

I'm very happy in my life. Very successful and comfortable. Great kids. And I don't need your cultism (or any other cult belief) to navigate through life. I don't fear death or what comes after, it is factually an unknown. It's intriguing to me. Cultism is a crutch for those who are weak without it, and who need something unprovable or imaginary to cling to, so they can handle living. And, that is truly what I find sad.

Science and the unverse are not easy at all to understand. What is easy is to say "oh, my cult god did it all" and shuffle along. I love the mysteries and thrills of learning, discovery, critical thought, exploration... Mythical, unprovable Bronze-age Cultism holds nothing of interest to me at all. Seen it, studied it, and moved on.

Cheers!

Step 2 is taking place. We have a little opening up and background conversation.

You sound a little more cheerful already.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Can I get an "Amen"?

again, not interested in your cultism or your cult's mythical man-god creature.

This situation shows why we should NOT put our faith in churches and "man". People are fallible and churches are run by people. Too many get caught up with this kind of abuse of power. It is bad enough when done by politicians, business executives, movie stars, etc. but to use God as a tool in your seduction is sick.

"A-men"

Yeldarb...Phyllis is a whack job that refuses to let it be known that he is a "Closet" Christian and only wants others to think he is some kind of cosmic thinker when in reality, he keeps bringing up the mythical sky creature out of his own fear.

LOL!

Phyllis...Lynchmob is {insert CoH violating personal attack here} that refuses to let it be known that it is a secret agoraphobe. That is why he puts 'closet' in quotation marks and capitalizes it.

dak. Is whack-job bad enough to bring a CoH violation?

:D

Wow, if it is, all of us will be banned before the day is up.

If there is a definition of "Wackjob" out there that is something so terrible, I apologise for such a heinous attack.

Wow again, political correctness is so bad these days that others, with obviously worse problems, have to resort to the COH like it is some kind of weapon.

Seems it is OK to go to hell but don't violate anyones intrepretation of the COH because that would be bad.

Even calling someone a sissy is a CoH violation. I didn't flag it, I just wanted to point out that making it personal isn't the right way to go about a healthy discussion.

I'm pretty sure Phyllis has thick skin and blew it off, but you should be arguing the points, not degrading the individual.

Seems it is OK to go to hell

If you are trying to save Phyllis's soul, personal attacks might not be the best way.

don't violate anyones intrepretation of the COH because that would be bad.

COH #1: Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

Urban Dictionary for "Wack-Job": A crazy person. The online slang dictionary elaborates to include the mentally ill.

That means, quite clearly, that you are attacking the person's sanity, and not the actual arguments. It's not interpretive, it's pretty clear cut. Now, it's not of great magnitude, but the actual violation is clear.

I'm just pushing for you to keep it from being personal. Things like that escalate.

You mean calling one things like say, "Agoraphobe" indicating they have some mental issue?

oh man... I thought that comment didn't need an actual /sarc tag on it due to the whole "closet in quotations" nonsense. I was showing the impropriety of making personal assumptions based on limited interaction, and you fail to get the message. That, or you are pretending not to see the actual intention of the comment so that you can try to belittle my other point.

However, since technically Phyllis has already shown displeasure at the idea of Christianity, calling her a Christian would indeed be a form of personal attack meant to inflame the discussion. Are you perhaps trying to convince me that Lynch's comment was even more vulgar than I had pointed out?

Kind of hard for you to get out of the very hole you dug for yourself, isn't it?

it breaks my heart that people still follow this bronze-age religious BuyBull nonsense, and children keep getting raped by christian leaders!!

Phyllis-2480124 Children are rape by all kinds of people (perverts); a brother, sister, step-sisters, step-brother, cousin, father, Mother, uncle, aunts, Grand Fathers, Grand Mothers Family Friends and the list goes on and on. But religious leader and held to a different standard. We are all sinner saved by grace. Not all person who say they are saved are saved (live a sinless life) and Not all religious leader are true to their calling. As a male growing up, I have been approached by men and women who wanted to do perverted thing, but I did not allowed then to touch me. As a Parent I must instill that in my children also, keep your privies parts to yourself until you’re married. Rev. Peters

But religious leader and held to a different standard. We are all sinner saved by grace

oh, so THAT'S why you guys think you can rape kids and get away with it!

Phyllis....

I can see you are very passionate about what you believe and i am not going to attempt to convince you otherwise.

Christianity is about revealed knowledge. The scripture say you cannot come to God unless the father draws you. The reality is not everyone is going to be saved.

You seemed to be focused on facts so if I may, facts:

1. The four (4) young men never accused Long of rape.

2. They committed adultry.

3. Long does not speak for the entire Christian faith.

4. None of us really know what happened.

This does not help any persons of the faith who are genuinely concerned about spreading the good news. Situations like this compound the job of true believers.

However, what i find telling you have called this a rape when it does not meet the definition, nor has such a claim been made by his accusers. While you speak as a "progressive," I find it interesting what your spirit is testifying about this behavior.

The scripture say you cannot come to God unless the father draws you. The reality is not everyone is going to be saved.

All of that is unprovable, mythical cult-speech. It is not germaine, especially if you're using the word REALITY.

Cheers!

Here is the problem with your statement, you have no proof to the contrary.

I love to watch and listen to man (generic) in his little, insignificant self try to put himself on the same platform as the sovereign God. Yet he can't cure himself of poverty, and most illnesses etc. He draws conclusion without all the evidence and tells himself it's truth. He has no answers for most of the questions in the universe. Yet the questions he need answers to, he has yet to formulate, because of his occupancy recycling questions his predecessors struggled with, often deriving at flawed conclusions.

He then shows up for his 15 minutes, picks up the mantle in ignorance and often arrogance, increasing the distance down an erroneous path absent the knowledge that the original premise was flawed. Your truth is dependent on the one asking the question. My truth, IS, and always will be.

I am not sure if this is germane but since you are an authority on myths, US movie studios are anticipating a blockbuster summer in ticket sales. Does that help to provide some metrics that there are some people who are trying to escape your "REALITY?"

Here is the problem with your statement, you have no proof to the contrary.

You are the one making the outrageous calim that a god exists, without any proof to substantiate it. People can make wild claims all day long -- and have no proof to substantiate them. It isn't up to everyone else to spin THEIR wheels disproving crazy claims, whether they are claiming that Odin is real, Ra is real, BuyBull-god is real, or leprechauns are real...

It isn't up to me or anyone else to DISprove your outrageous claims. It is up to you to prove the BS you are spewing.

And, to clear up another dishonest statement you made -- I am not trying to put myself on any platform -- certainly not on a mythical platform that a mythical creature, which other people have created, might be sitting on. There is no proof that such a thing even exists, and I have no interest in occupying a place next to Harry Potter or Zeus, either. Suggesting otehrwise is silly.

PS: movies are a favorite form of entertainment for millions of people. They tell stories. It doesn't mean that people believe in Hogwarts if they go and see a Harry Potter movie...

Christianity is about revealed knowledge.

Oh, so -- you're saying that more gets revealed when these guys pull down the pants of an 8yo child and butt-rape them?

The scripture say you cannot come to God unless the father draws you

Yeah, i think that's the problem. When they come, they think they're coming to god. And when Father FondlesKids draws you closer, LOOK OUT!

Phyllis,

Who hurt you?

someone has to be hurt in order to speak honestly about the Pedophile Cathoilic Cult?

that's a weird suggestion...

It is easy to see why so many people DO NOT believe in God,

Yeah, because whack-jobs like you keep blaming mythical creatures like satan and jesus and all the other creatures for their behavior. this hypocritical cowardice is disgusting and hard for ANYONE to stomach!

Phyllis--Isn't it obvious that the cowardly hypocrites that you mention are clergy that molest children and clergy that don't believe in god?? My comments were intended for people who do have or did have religious beliefs. My comments are statements of facts as I see them. I never mentioned Jesus,you did! If you actually read my comments you might notice I did not blame your so called "mythical creatures" for anything. I clearly put the "blame" on the hypocritical clergymen! So perhaps the whack-job you wrote about is you??? Also Phyllis when you find some proof that there is no God or Satan please let us all know about it,I'm sure many readers will be interested..........Oh,and my comments were a bit cynical,not hypocritical........

clergy that molest children and clergy that don't believe in god??

What do you base that on? You think that because someone sins they automatically don't believe in God? Perhaps you feel that if someone interprets the Bible differently than you they don't believe in God?

Who are you to define another person's relationship with God? To call him an atheist because he has done something immoral is ridiculous.

dakakaiser--I didn't call anyone an atheist,you did! What makes you think that you know what I'm thinking? I only know a few lines from the Bible and have not tried to interpret the Bible nor have I defined any ones relationship to God. Go back and read my reply to Phyllis and this time pay attention! In fact I'll ask you a question as well: dakaiser- When you find proof that their is a God or Satan would you please let us all know about it?

honeydouche writes: If you actually read my comments you might notice I did not blame your so called "mythical creatures" for anything.

right after honeydouche wrote, in post #4: Now when people go to church many hope it's not Satan's Agent doing the preaching!!!

(in other words, the mythical creature and his agent are causing the bad behavior in the congregation).

Yeah, dummy, we all noticed it, even though your memory is short!

Phyllis-Lets hope the person at the front doing the preaching is actually alive and is not a"Satan's Agent".["Satan's Agent" as I have used it is a figure of speech to imply a possibly" evil person"]. Also you said: "the mythical creature and his agent are causing the bad behavior in the congregation" Do you really believe that?? .I did not say it....Hmmmm, perhaps the actual dummy is you? Perhaps it would help you to go look in the mirror and tell yourself to"stop being a dolt"before making foolish comments on the vine...........

you implied that, punkin.

i dont believe in the mythical cult creatures which you keep bringing up...

cheers!

Honeybird,

I didn't call anyone an atheist,you did!

Ok. Let me define an atheist for you... An atheist is someone that doesn't believe in God. So, when I quoted you as saying "clergy that don't believe in god" you are technically saying "clergy that are atheists".

What makes you think that you know what I'm thinking?

I didn't. Did you notice that almost every single sentence in my comment was a question? The last was a comment, meant to explain the point of my questions into your line of reasoning.

I only know a few lines from the Bible and have not tried to interpret the Bible nor have I defined any ones relationship to God.

You said that the clergy that molest likely do not believe in God. I didn't read that they had said this, so I asked you several questions to determine how you came to that conclusion.

back and read my reply to Phyllis and this time pay attention!

You had originally made that claim, that most priest child molesters likely don't believe in God, before your reply to Phyllis. I realise Phyllis has you very fired up and defensive, but your discussion with her is irrelevant to the idea you presented that I pointed out.

When you find proof that their is a God or Satan would you please let us all know about it?

Sure, but I haven't been testing that hypothesis in a long time. But if I stumble across any I'll do my best to show it to the world.

When you find proof that their is a God or Satan would you please let us all know about it?

Sure, but I haven't been testing that hypothesis in a long time. But if I stumble across any I'll do my best to show it to the world.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It will be the FIRST... so, you'd likely become a VERY popular personality!

:)

Don't know and really can't say as none of us here are capable of knowing what is in his heart. He has failed as has all of man-kind at one point or another, but his was a failure that was really grotesque and heinous that he should also have to pay for (not just in dollars) here on earth for the breaking of man's laws.

Jump--Sure but there is an endless line of folks with check books and thick wallets ahead of him......Funny looking greeter at the door to,has a long tail...Hmmmm! Looks a lot like my buddy Phyllis!! hehehe, who would of guessed!?!??

again, with the evil mythical cult creatures. what a dolt!

Phyllis- You're a real card Phyllis.hehehe Lets hope God IS real, I'm laughing so hard I think I might have a heart attack and have to go up and have God check me out. hahaha I'm gonna be pissed, if Satan is there with him! I hope they don't ask me if Phyllis is the dolt who said they are the mythical cult creatures who are causing bad behavior in the congregation of church goers..........Don't think I can lie my way out of that one!! I'll have to admit that Phyllis said it....she said it on the vine!!

still bringing up the mythical cult creatures!

Phyllis is making Honeybird look pretty silly with her comments (well to be honest Honeybird makes herself look foolish with the spiel she is force fed at church). Lets face it alot of the religious leaders can committ all kinds of atrocities and then go to church and "wash" themselves with the blood of Jesus and feel that they are good to go and find others to take advantage of..................oh my what a racket

Hey as Phyllis claims, there is no mythical sky creature. If he is right, we have committed no harm or no foul. Our personal beliefs have not harmed you in any way. Take out all the heaven and hell parts of the bible and it is just a book telling all people that we should do good, not harm right????? We are all just worm food in the end right? No better off, no worse off than anyone else.

Now, just for fun, let's say Phyllis is WRONG! Now what? Seems a major part of the earths population has a bit of a problem doesn't it. Us folk who believe in the "mythical sky creature" are doing rather well for ourselves. I believe the old song goes something like "When we've been there ten thousand years, bright shinning like the sun, we've no less days to sing his praise, than when we first begun."

Just a little mythical food for thought. Not trying to convert anyone, I welcome you all, but cannot force anyone to make up anything in their heart that isn't true to them. Any harm in being Christian?

Sorry, but it's a fool and a coward who hangs his hat on Pascal's Wager. (if you don't know what that is, read up on it).

Choosing a cult out of fear and the need for Fire Insurance is cowardly. Worse than that, it is disingenuous. (ie, it is Fraud)

markelpew-Actually Phyllis makes herself look foolish every time she writes a post....She needs no help from you in doing so markelpew. And surprise! Honeybird does not go to church!! Believe it or not,I can understand why both of you are against religion!! Corrupt leaders protecting pedophiles is a good starting point to be against religions. However what I don't understand is WHY you are so against the concept of there being a Creator? Hey,I know this will be very difficult,perhaps impossible but try to write an intelligent post for a change! Please!!

What you dont understand is that you characterize it wrong! I'm not against the concept of there being a creator as much as I simply acknowledge that there exists ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that a god exists. Period.

I don't tend to simply and blindly believe in things where there is NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE for their existence.

I dont believe in Odin. Zeus. Ra. Jesus. Leprechauns. Tooth Fairy. Harry Potter. There's a LONG LIST of the things that I don't believe in. I'm not AGAINST them, I simply have no reason to think they exist. People like YOU yak and yak and yak incessantly about such things, but you do so in an extraordinarily uneducated and ridiculous manner -- and you don't make your cultism or your beliefs palatable or attractive. So many cultists are also hateful, angry, discriminatory, hypocritical and uneducated/ignorant. They use their cultism/doctrine to harm others constantly. And, what's worse, they pride themselves on those values --- yet those values contradict their doctrine and their mythical cult creatures DIRECTLY ----- and they don't care! LOL...

And you, of all people, demanding someone to post intelligently ----- after you, yourself, continually post sophomoric screed and nonsense is, well...laughable!

Phyllis--I don't blindly believe in anything or anyone either.Many of the responses Iv'e made to your comments were at least partially tongue in cheek but you've never caught on. I did it because your comments are unnecessarily abrasive to others. I'm not a member of any cult or religion and you have no idea of what I believe in or why. You wrote:"So many cultists are also hateful,angry,discriminatory and uneducated/ignorant." Well,you probably don't know it but I'm sure most people reading your posts would say that what you said about cultists,also applies to yourself! I wish you good luck Phyllis I really do! Lighten up and realize that nothing You or I post on the vine will have any effect on others reading our posts. And please! Don't call anyone a "dolt" hehehe. Bye now,it's time for me to spend more time on real life issues and less time wasteing time on the vine reading inane comments.

Lighten up and realize that nothing You or I post on the vine will have any effect on others reading our posts

I beg to differ there. In one of hese threads, i was enjoying a debate with two complete dolts who had NO CLUE about how the scientific community uses the words THEORY and LAW, and then they went on to make complete fools of themselves regarding Evolution. It was thoroughly awesome. I loved every minute of it -- although, the distressing effects that BuyBull-Homep-Schooling has on people is really quite sad.

Anyway, as a result, i got several friend requests from people who were only reading the posts, not contributing to the discussion. They thanked me for the links i cut/pasted into my posts during the discussion, and said they actually got a lot out of what I was saying in my posts -- and have actually talked with a couple of them at length off-line.

Some people do appreciate blunt honesty, and people often do favor intellectual discussion over the cultist blather that is frequently gurgled over the Vine.

we heard your babble the first two times you posted this.

say it enought times Rev. Peters and it must be true................lol

It is ironic he used his peter to get in trouble and Rev. Peters is here to save him.

Phyllis why try to make these people "see the light" they are busy bring in the sheaves (read as collecting money) so they can purchase some more of the bling-bling jewelry Rev. "Big Money" is sporting.

Rev.Peters-Sorry,I have to agree with Phyllis.Stop the babbling!

for a doctor, i find it funny that you hang your hat on Pascal's Wager. the refuge of the spiritually weak.

what a joke. cultism for Fire Insurance. i'm sure your cult god is flattered by a low-life who believes in him "just in case"...

"science provides nothing concrete" - says the guy who clearly reads and re-reads nothing more than his cult book. If you are that uneducated and anti-intellectual, that you can state that science provides nothing concrete, I hope you remember that the next time you go to the hospital and need medical care. or the next time you use your computer to access the internet. or...

must have received his "doctorate" at one of the religious colleges that is unrecognized. It is surprising how easy it is to get a doctorate when donating money to the "organization". I even heard I can be Pope for a generous donation....remember it's "seed" money................, "give us money and it will be returned to you tenfold".............yeah right

Dr. Williams you stated to them what I have been trying to many times. They purposely miscontrue what we say, not preach to them. I suspect that ole phyllis and couple of his/her cronies are closer to God than they really want us to know.

God Bless as we keep our eyes and heart invested in the Lord (not man or the church) where it belongs.

Yeldarb27, I agree 100%, and I truly feel sorry for them. My job is not to convenience them that my God is real. I will continue to live a godly life because we all have the same fate (death) whether they believe or not. And, I have a PhD from Iowa State University, a highly accredited university. It is funny how they are so angry because we believe in God and they believe in man; all men have flaws and science has flaws. Continue to live your ungodly lives, but something will happen in your life to wonder or ponder about the possibility of God. Thank you for strengthening my faith with your ignorant rhetoric. Next time you all speak provide facts to support your assumptions of a no god theory.

Most non-belivers talk about only believing in factual, tangible, pruvable, concrete items that they can understand. They spout that most belivers are only ignorant mindless weaklings being led to slaughter. To that, I can only say how limited ones mind must be to only be able to grasp those physical things that even a child can connect to. I do feel sorry for their personal limitations and do pray that one day before it is too late that they will have a spiritual awakening that will also wake up their minds and hearts to the true reality.

Well-stated sir!

My brothers while I understand the sorrow with the God bashing rhetoric, Did the scripture not say we are not to throw our pearl at swines?

They are spiritually blind and they believe they see and the Christian is blind.

I have always maintained, if i am attempting to communicate with some one who speaks a foreign language it is my responsiblity to learn their tongue, if i am trying to get through to them.

James Williams. You are a fraud. You'd never get through Ohio State U with a doctorate -- your spelling, grammar and word usage are all atrociouos!

One example -- your sentence above in post 13.4: My job is not to convenience them that my God is real.

The word is CONVINCE, not convenience. And sorry, but you continually misstate crap like that in ALL of your posts on the Vine.

The tree outside my window has a better chance of earning a doctorate -- give it a rest already. Nobody is impressed anyway.

hah! i mistyped atrocious!

Phyllis, I think you are over compensating for an educational shortfall and a personal confliction. You might just want to review and reconsider what yeldarb and Williams are stating. They are not damning you. They are only asking you to open your great mind to further things and just maybe your heart will follow.

Quit attacking them, neither has said anything harmful towards you. I am the only one of the three that has possibly slandered you and that is only a guess that may be way off base.

Williams is making a fraudulent representation. I'm only pointing that out.

I haven't foumd much of what you've said in this thread to be germaine, so, it's only irrelevant and unimportant. I dont care about your childish slander, either, it only exhibits your low-self esteem -- and it does no harm to me at all. I'm a screen-name on a message board, and people like you need people like me in order to feel better about yourself.

And that's fine -- it doesn't cost me anything.

Cheers!

What color is the moon at night on your fantasy island?

Phillis, You don't know Dr. James Williams. Feel free to point out errors in his presentation, and feel free to publicly doubt his accreditation and acclaim, but calling him a fraud isn't going to help anything. You are just attacking them, not the ideas.

Dr. James, you put your "credentials" in the middle of a comment where it has no value. It is as if you are compensating for something. Most atheists gave up on appeals to authority long ago, and so your PhD in an unmentioned subject makes you no more an expert in this discussion than an 8 year old child straight from Sunday school. Which is probably safer than an 8 year old boy straight from the priests private study.

And back to the original comment #13: You really result to Pascal's wager? If that is the case, which of the Abrahamic religions are you? Since each one damns the others to hell, how do you know you picked the right one? Mormon maybe? Muslim? And if you only believe because you fear hell, you are merely one of the Pharisees, lip-service faithful.

It is written, and all of these things are coming to past

You know what else is written and seems to be coming to pass? The script for some star trek movies. If you make enough vague predictions, you easily become a prophet. I should know, I got pretty good at Tarot reading.

I study science, and science cannot dispute God's existence and fail to answer a lot of unknown answers

Well, I'm guessing it never occurred to you thatscience also cannot disprove that your mother was born as a fairy princess and converted over to be a human as part of a treaty with the goblins. And unknown answers are the result of science existing in a finite time-line. That doesn't validate attaching the label "God" to every mystery we haven't got to yet. You might as well say that faeries did it all.

Gee everybody, let's throw the COH flag again.

I agreed with Lynch that Phyllis wasn't acting properly and you have to complain because some people ask for adult debate?

Still digging, I see. Hard to move upward when all you know how to do is dig.

In the edited words of Tim Minchin:

If you build your church on claims of moral authority, and with threats of hell impose it on others in society, than you can expect some wrath when it turns out you've been performing such acts.

No maybe it doesn't but for some reason, possbly only known to you, it sure does irritate you. If it is such a false religion and you ignore it, why does it bother you so? Conflicted....hurt......or just lost???????

people who commit crimes, who kill, who rape -- all in the name of their cult god... yeah, to me -- that is upsetting. it is upsetting to people who have compassion for victims of such things.