Any idiot that believes you can use Algebra to over-analyze "God's" random return a man-made book to predict the Judgement Day of a highly exploitative religion should stop wasting human resources. Mankind has no room for people like this in its process of evolution. Imagine how much more advanced we could be right now.

Let me guess, D'oh followed by Sorry my bad.

We are all just going to have to wait for the end of the Mayan calendar like everyone else

So (5x10x17) x (5x10x17) doesn't equal the Rapture?!

Imagine what religion will discover tomorrow...

lol- we have better odds of dying like the dinosaurs then we do by a biblical event taking place..... Its really sad to see people put so much trust in such crazy things...... Thing that gets me is technically we non-believer are saved from damnation and we ALL get in if you read the bible front to back, with out pasting chapters and sentences together as minsters do to form some BS message.

Don't get me wrong, the book is an interesting book of tall tails, but that's about it.

So (5x10x17) x (5x10x17) doesn't equal the Rapture?!

Imagine what religion will discover tomorrow...

Lol. At least it's one step in the right direction. Once they get that entire "MATH" magic down-packed, maybe they will ATTEMPT to check-in to in science, logic, and reason. Just MAYBE.

Cheer up Harold.So you were wrong.Its not like its the end of the world

So he was wrong.its not like its the end of the world

Nice, but I believe you stole that from Larry on the yahoo message boards.

You know, this whole event would be hilarious had many of his followers not euthanized their pets before saturday. That really puts a damper on the whole situation.

So, it looks like this Earthly life is as good as it gets after all. Let's make the best of it, shall we?

There is only one reason and one reason only this moron makes these predictions. It's not to allow God to separate the believers from the non-believers or allow more time.

It's so that one moron can separate another moron's money from him or her self. Must be a lot of idiots out there for this preacher to amass $100 million.

I am in the wrong line of work.

This really makes me angry. My dog and I drank all my beer for nothing. Now I have to restock for the next apocalypse.

I'm guessing he'll come up with a version of how because he convinced so many, the rapture DIDN'T happen because this was a test of their faith (and they'll buy that too...since it's a whole lot easier explanation than they really were that stupid as to believe this garbage.)

just muzzle this crazy old man already!!! and tap his bank account dry!!!

"It hasn't shaken my faith, and we're still searching the Scriptures to understand why it did not happen," said Von Harringa, president of EBible Fellowship, which he operates from his home in Delaware, Ohio. "It's just a matter of OK, Lord, where do we go from here?"

Why Ohio...why? :(

I do not drink, but I was at a post rapture party for all the cool people and I had a beer. I threw caution to the wind!!!!

/smile

Or maybe this was God's way of giving him the finger.

It's not called blind faith for nothing,in his case it's rob you blind faith

Somewhere I read he collected 11 million dollars from his followers. Now you want to talk about a ponzi scheme. Not in Maddoff's league but still, somebody ought to investigate this charlatan.

Think of the lives he has ruined.

I'm betting he lined his pockets well.

He will be speaking on SNL, right?

I am blown away by the unmitigating presumption of those "Christians" who thought that they were on their way up and the rest of us were going to gnash our teeth and suffer the torment of the End of Days. These loud mouth - professing - wear it on your sleeve - so called Christians are anything but. This is not about humility after the fact but rather should have been a life time of humility and good works beforehand. Honestly, would you want to go to a Heaven filled with these yokels who have so lethally and tragically combined ignorance and a sense of pompous self entitlement!

cult leader. david koresh, you say? jim jones? had he told his blind "followers" to drink the kool-aid would they have done that too?? give me money!! i know the truth!!

i'm still shocked that people today can't think for themselves. oh wait .. we are talking about religion here, right?

I don't care what Mr. Camping has to say, I am PISSED! I spent that whole week prior looking forward to looting, hanging out with zombies and a fundie-free Earth...I got NOTHING!

He collected more than 100M in the last 7 years... makes me wonder if he is going to give them refunds due to his mathematical error? /sarc

Makes me nostalgic for when someone like this would be strung up in the public square, then tarred and feathered so everyone in town could spit in his face.

Honestly, would you want to go to a Heaven filled with these yokels who have so lethally and tragically combined ignorance and a sense of pompous self entitlement and a distorted sense of self worth! I am blown away by the unmitigating presumption of those "Christians" who thought that they were on their way up and the rest of us were going to gnash our teeth and suffer the torment of the End of Days!

This man should be charged with terrorism or crimes against humanity.. or something.

Its funny that christians will believe this guy, but those people that believe in global warming/climate change or the possibility that we may run out of fossil fuels are "alarmists". Dumb people and their stupid double-standards.

@#$&ING IDIOTS!!!

Sell a consumer product that doesn't do as it says and you get a massive fine and possibly jail time. Sell a consumer 'belief' that never does what it says and there is no fine or punishment.

Caveat Emptor applies to your silly beliefs as well folks.

Holy hell I hate newsvine sometimes. Anyway, it looks like a part of Campingsprediction came true on Saturday. A man named Ra-el is proclaimed to be the second coming of Christ and made his announcement to the world on youtube. If you go to his website www.ra-el.com he gives multiple reasons as to why he is the second coming. The Knights Templar are the ones supporting him. Crazy days are to come and Judgment is here. I almost feel sorry for the stupid schmucks who spent every dollar they had on stupid ad campaigns for all of this and hopefully someone will take Harolds radio away from him, what a POS. If he was smart he should have disappeared as if the rapture got'em.

Revelation 3:3 (NIV) "Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

You would think someone who claims to study the Bible would know this very important verse.....

I think we should put up billboards that say TRUE BELIEVERS

and list all the people and how much money they gave Harold Camping.

after all, isnt that what seperates the believers and the non-believers, how much one gives to "church"?

Or people can simply ignore soothsayers and stop being disappointed, because mankind's salvation isn't based off of algorithms. I'll leave the rest up to people who are already established in explaining this.

And I was just about to declare myself the second coming ...

aw heck, send me any money you believers have left anyway!

dave...lol...I so want to make an inappropriate comment about coming twice...but, I'll just let it go.

Yes, apparently being a FALSE PROPHET is a completely legal ponzi scheme, and there's a new sucker born every minute who'll fall for it.

its called prophecy..

Matthew 24:21-36

21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

23 "Then if anyone says to YOU, 'Look! Here is the Christ,' or, 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, 'Look! He is in the wilderness,' do not go out; 'Look! He is in the inner chambers,' do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to the other extremity.

32 "Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, YOU know that summer is near. 33 Likewise also YOU, when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. 34 Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.

36 "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."

Ra-el is a hilarious cuckoo bird. Why didn't I see this coming. This might have been an easier thing to do than create Google or Apple. Damn I missed this one. I could have been a multi-millionaire if I would have thought of it. Curse you Ra-el, curse you.

I am going to grow my hair long. Grow a beard. Perhaps I can become his understudy (wonder what that pays)?

Don't believe Ra-el, he is not the second coming. Believe me, it is I. Wait for me to change my identity, and learn to speak cuckoo bird. If you want to send me tithe's beforehand let me know, and I will setup a paypal account just for that. I have spoken, King of California, Lord of Chevy Tahoe, Savior of all that is holy. Bow down to me, and you shall be saved. I will spare your armies only if you giveth me what I wanteth, and that is your money. Do it now before it is too late.

Ra-el sure doesn't hesitate to ask for your donations.

I'd say Matthew 24:23-24 has definitely come to pass (especially here in America), but the rest of it we're still waiting patiently on.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the Bible may actually be the greatest work of deception that the Devil has ever created?

After all, I have nearly 2,000 years of obscenely and inherently evil Christian history as the reference for making such an inductive conclusion.

Gendolkari:

If there is no God, I cannot see why there is a devil...just people f'g things up.

If bat-guano-for-brains could be burned in our gas tanks, these people would be a national resource!

As it is, they need to get a life – here on earth, worry about that one and forget about the after one until there is some scientific evidence there is one that needs to be dealt with.

Ron-Until there's scientific evidence there is one? Really? Religion can be an SOB sometimes but waiting for scientific evidence that there is a heaven is about as much a waist of time as watching the grass grow. It's called faith, either you have it or you don't. All science will ever be able to do is show how life, the earth and the universe works. There will never be evidence to there being a heaven just like there will never be evidence that there isn't a heaven. Religious nut jobs like Camping obviously do no good for the cause. I def agree with you on worrying more about our planet and life here now more than the after. That'swhy its the after life, it would be better to take care here and help people here. The end result will give you a better afterlife. Who knows, whether if you believe or not, taking care of our earth and its people and being as much a positive influence might get you in there as well. I for one was raised Christian but I've always had a hard time believing someone like Gandhi would be in hell.

Mr Pink, Thank you for you wise and thoughtful comments.

You and I are in absolute agreement about living well in this life, for ourselves
and for our fellow man. Whether or not it affects an afterlife, I don't believe
we'll never know, but because we know living well here and now is its own
reward, it really doesn't matter if there is an afterlife or a heaven/hell or not. I certainly won't be waiting or expect to change anything about my life based on outcome.

Could it be possible that if it cannot be proved scientifically, there can only be one of two conditions - we haven't run into the proof or it is a figment of the hugely creative and way too often gullible, born ignorant, still primitive human mind? These are the only two choices. Anything else is nothing better than make believe.

I was also raised in a Christian household - my Dad even taught Sunday School and we read the Bible at home, looking to apply its lessons to today's living. I
was also taught to be analytical, as you seem to be, and, after nearly 6
decades of conscious thought, I just cannot place any personal value in any of
the spiritual aspects of religion in general - a human-like God or gods, the
Son of God, Heaven or Hell, the Bible being anything more than a work of man.
Prayer is a valuable form of personal meditation - no one should listen but me
- and I should doubt everything I hear. Something of empirical proof is heaven
and hell are what we make of life right now, right here and it is or could be
enough of each - or way too much.

If Jesus is no more "the Son of God" than you or me or anyone else, nothing more than a great teacher from history; if there is no afterlife, or heaven or hell; if there were no God, would that make Jesus' teachings any less valuable as a model for living? If they have any value at all, the answer logically must be NO! By definition, the rest is then just window dressing.

All that we know, all that we have, is our humanity today, right here, right now, the next quality interaction with our fellow humans, and the environment we live in. What we are, where we live, the time we have, the consequences of living badly are absolutely tangible and enough to keep us busy without worrying for a second about if anything happens after we die. And it is such a gift that there is no need for anything beyond. I believe we would have a better world if no one believed in an afterlife. If this is all we have, couldn't we make it better?? That is about as metaphysical as I get.

I don't have all the answers, for myself and certainly not for anyone else. This life should always be a personal mission and a real-time voyage. But the questions that cannot be answered with reason are not important. I don't feel any need to make up an answer for them or to believe anyone else's attempt to do so. Certainly the realm of science is "how" and the realm of religion is "why". As a human, I must know "how" but I am not bothered in the least by leaving the "why" go unanswered - any more than "just because".

Thank you for this conversation. It would be better if we could
have it as two humans, face to face, rather than this impersonal format.

Yep, just one word describes it. IDIOT. Well said Naika

Agree, you pegged it Naika! As I've said before, there is something fundamentally wrong with fundamentalists of any religion.

My recent phone call to Mr. Camping:

"Hello?"

"Hi, Mr. Harold Camping?"

"Yes, that's me."

"You're doing it wrong."

GimDan # 1.5 -

We have a better odds of dying like the dynosaurs than we do by a biblical event...

Wouldn't a meteor fall under the category of a Biblical event?

I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you. I just couldn't help but put your comment in context. This camping thing was as absurd as the Y2K scare.

"It's just a matter of OK, Lord, where do we go from here?"

Personally, I'd suggest they go back to school...and this time, please don't fall asleep during science class.

Just because this guy is wrong and had no chance of being right (obviously he needs to retake Bible 101), doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. Just because people mess up a relationship w/ God & His Word and add on man made laws or interpretations to support what they want to believe doesn't mean that God and His Word are wrong. People mess things up. And people like this are always making God look bad. But it doesn't mean God isn't perfect.

But it doesn't mean God isn't perfect

You'd think a perfect being would have perfect creations.

Not these meat-sacks of ineptitude like Mr. Camping.

I know the true date of the end of the world... I'll figure it out right here in front of you. First thing we do is take god's real age... *tap, tap, tap*... divide it by the number of pages in your standard King James bible... *tap, tap, tap*. Then we take that number and put it into and Excel spreadsheet cell... *tap, tap*... change the format to time and date... *click, click*... and the end of the world is!!!

May 22nd 12:01 AM

Huh... what went wrong? Let me call Harold Camping and find out what it means. *VERY short conversation* Ah... cleared that up... that is the end of Harold's world! Along with all his lemming followers.

And so.... There it is. One more Narcissistic, egocentric, egotistical "Man"... who took what is a religion of "Faith" and the belief that God can do for us what we are entirely incapable of doing for ourselves... and smeared it's reputation even deeper then the rest of those Humanistic "God wanna Be's" who have already done a very thorough job of smearing it in years past.

To those who see this entire debacle as yet another example of why you want nothing to do with Faith or Belief, I am so very sorry. There is not one thing that I can say that can undo the sort of damage that "Men" like this do.

There are those who believe and see things from a much more simple perspective. There are some of us who feel our Faith is quite simple. And that there is no need of all this "End of days" worry. Because some of us feel the reason for faith is about "OTHERS" not about "OURSELVES" and our fears.

Here is my faith in a nutshell. Here is what MY Savior said that I feel is the most important thing there is...

Matthew 28:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

These very simple principles are what I feel Christianity is all about. It seems that as soon as we start colouring outside these lines it does not take long before there is trouble and when the faults of man start to fill in as a bad substitute for the qualities of these simple principals.

One again... to those who have been damaged or have found it all too much to swallow...... I am so very sorry for what has been done to you and so many others.

...he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife.

Nice guy! So he felt bad that "God's chosen" were not raised into heaven while the rest of humanity suffered all the pestilence and destruction that was supposed to follow for the next few months here on Earth.

Think of how much good all that money spent on advertising the "Rapture" could have done for the poor or for helping tornado victims rebuild. Don't forget, all that money that idiots like Camping collects is TAX FREE.

The answer is simple. God has been bought off by the corporations and is Republican. No more of those earned entitlements.

Any true Christian that has read the Bible knows that the Bible says that no one will know the hour of the rapture. This guy obviously is trying to get attention. Lets not give him another second!

Everyone wants to feel like they are part of some 'elite' group.

They may do it through fantasy, they may do it through religion, they may do it through education, sports, or conspiracy theories.

People just love to feel like they have some sort of special access to esoteric knowledge.

So we have to wait another 5 months for our next laugh?

Too bad. We could use some more levity these days.

I just wish they'd quit giving this tosser more publicity.

It seems to be beyond some people that the crazy part in all this is believing in the Rapture.

Whatever date you decide to stick on it isn't really the crazy part... the crazy part is believing it's gonna happen at all in the first place.

While it may be in the near future, many signs of our times certainly indicate so

its called prophecy..

Not really. Just a case of seeing what you're emotionally predisposed see, no different than taking a Rorschach test.

So, it looks like this Earthly life is as good as it gets after all. Let's make the best of it, shall we?

Bears repeating.

I don't mind the new prediction really. It gives me a chance to do these 2 things:

1. Say "I told you so" when it doesn't happen...again.

2. Release more helium filled sex dolls into the air to freak people out.

Math must be the devil's playground.

Seriously, since Mr. Camping is so bad at math, maybe he should post his calculation online. I would think it should be peer-reviewed before the next date is announced.

In 2009, the nonprofit Family Radio reported in IRS filings that it received $18.3 million in donations, and had assets of more than $104 million, including $34 million in stocks or other publicly traded securities.

Apparently he is doing something right. Non profit eh? IRS should make them pay taxes.

Yes he's an Idiot and so are those that believe this crap. But what is so upsetting to me are those that put their animals down because of this idiot.

They should have put him down and not innocent pets.

CNN - "Take a look at Family Radio's IRS filings ....
According to those financial documents, accountants put the total worth of Family Radio (referred to as Family Stations on its official forms) at $72 million."

Oh brother. Maybe an earlier poster was right - that there WAS a rapture, but NO one was worthy, lol. Certainly not these tax-exempt televangelists, or in this case radio evangelists.

Tank Carson

I am blown away by the unmitigating presumption of those "Christians" who thought that they were on their way up and the rest of us were going to gnash our teeth and suffer the torment of the End of Days. These loud mouth - professing - wear it on your sleeve - so called Christians are anything but. This is not about humility after the fact but rather should have been a life time of humility and good works beforehand. Honestly, would you want to go to a Heaven filled with these yokels who have so lethally and tragically combined ignorance and a sense of pompous self entitlement!

That's 100% spot on Tank; I don't think Jesus wanted heaven filled with them either. Matter of fact, I think in His day they were called Pharisees and dubbed them as a brood of vipers, white-washed tombs, and thieves that preyed on the estates of widows and they naive.

What was it, 20 years ago that Ted Danson said the oceans would all be dead in 10 years. Apparently not just Christians are dumbasses with a following of sheep to believe them.

OK everyone I say the World isn't going to end Oct. 21st. Please send donation so that I can post bilboards, buy RV's and other advertising. And don't forget my cut!

Everyone wants to feel like they are part of some 'elite' group.

They may do it through fantasy, they may do it through religion, they may do it through education, sports, or conspiracy theories.

People just love to feel like they have some sort of special access to esoteric knowledge.

Well, you've just explained the tea party followers.

Oh look, a lib zealot invoking the name of the Tea Party in a story that has NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS. Shocker.

A few got taken, not a whole lot;

it wasn't widely reported because they

had been for the most part elderly, invalid,

and abandoned and no one really took notice;

so now it is just a little more time until Gods'

Judgment of the remaining populace.

He should be in jail or a mental institution.
He is either insane or a scam artist,
Personally I think it is both.

Pity to those he deluded.

He hurts God with this stuff, turns people off to the only real message in the Bible:

LOVE

Ron-42 & Pink

"we know in part, we see in part".

My experience on those who claim to be Christians or are simply raised "Christian" is they obtain a head knowledge - not a spiritual knowledge.

"not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit says the Lord"

"you search the scriptures. For in them you think you have eternal life, and they are they that testify of me."

or this one

"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who discovers a treasure in a field. He goes and sells all he has and purchases that field."

Which of these are heart knowledge?

I have it on good authority "hell" is currently closed. Seems some smart assed Chinaman snuck around and piped water into the place and sold it to several billion residents. These mean bastards then made short work of the fire there. As the area cooled the residents then grabbed satan, put him in chains and are tormenting the hell out of him. Not wishing to share all this with anyone else they padlocked the joint. No one can get in or out. (Sorry Dick) Heaven though is in a sorry mess and looking for a few good men and women who can yet copulate and hopefully conceive. Since so few pilgrams have made their way there over the last 5000 years the gene pool has become stale and there just aren't enough there required to perform basic maintenance on the place. It is said, while God is pissed, he is helpless, since with the closing of hell, he can neither export the welfare bastards living off him nor can he import any of the present crop from earth due to their uncouth ways and sue happy desires. Said he wouldn't trust any one of them in heavens dirtiest toilet wearing a muzzel. Relative to heaven or hell, we all may just be up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

Camping, who predicted that 200 million Christians would be taken to heaven Saturday before the Earth was destroyed, said he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife. His independent ministry, Family Radio International, spent millions — some of it from donations made by followers — on more than 5,000 billboards and 20 RVs plastered with the Judgment Day message.

Millions for that idiocy — but not a cent, I'll wager, for tornado and flood relief in the South and the Midwest, orphanages and youth programs, or any other program that could make a positive contribution or a genuine difference in the lives of flesh-and-blood human beings in desperate need of care and support.

I am reminded of the mass suicide of group leader Marshall Applewhite and his followers in the Heaven's Gate religious cult in the Rancho Sante Fe community near San Diego on March 19-20, 1997 — they fervently believed that a space craft trailing the Comet Hale-Bopp was coming to take them away [hee-hee, to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time] and the Heaven's Gate "Away Team" took phenobarbital and cyanide in order to rendezvous with the aliens — and many of you will also vividly recall, of course, the mass suicide of more than 900 men, women and children [Lord, the children] of the Peoples Temple led by the mad 'Reverend' Jim Jones in Guyana on November 18, 1978: the original 'Kool-Aid drinkers' (grape Flavor-Aid, actually, mixed with potassium cyanide, liquid Valium, and other drugs ).

This wackadoo Camping could very easily wind up being personally responsible for a great many deaths.

At least he and his fellow idiots spent over $1 million in advertising the end of the world! The California economy needed that infusion!! LMFAOROLF!!!!!!!

God forbid they use that money to actually help people who are in dire need of it, like the poor people in Joplin, MO. This morron will burn in hell for being so stupid!!!!

Derek-V:

Well said my friend.

God's desire is for us to know the glory that is HE.

Satan's only desire is to keep that from happening.

Yes, it's that simple.

Adler,

I've wondered about possible suicides myself. I hope these people can find help. Furthermore, Camping should reimburse those who sold all getting ready for this.

Nursesense,

You,re right. Satan loves it when things like this happen. In the eyes of many unbelievers, these fiascos damage the credibility of the Gospel.

Don't forget the woman who killed her six year old child to spare him the terror of judgment day.

There is no satan, by the way, only con-men and charlatans who take advantage of the weak-minded and faithful.

Derek-V

What happened? Why do so many suffer today? Why do the rich maintain so much of the wealth of the world without sharing? Is that GODS plan? If it is, it is a joke!

Why is there war? Why is the pestilence? Why is there greed and anger and wanting and loathing and stealing and raping and murdering and pileging and coveting and on and on and on and on and on.......................................!!!!!!

Makes me believe that God is a fallacy created by man to give him reason to be above the animal from which he came. It gave the ancients rule over the masses. It stopped man from committing all of the above mentioned transgressions (to a degree) and has now outlived its usefulness.

God created man in his own image and man, being the gentleman that he is, returned the favor.

God's desire is for us to know the glory that is HE.

And he displayed such glory as his perfect will destroyed a hospital.

Such a wondrous god you serve.

And by "wondrous" I mean "glaringly mythical."

Shoot low, Jon, they're ridin' Shetlands.

RE: post #1.53 by scales67...

"Think of how much good all that money spent on advertising the "Rapture" could have done for the poor or for helping tornado victims rebuild. Don't forget, all that money that idiots like Camping collects is TAX FREE."

EXACTLY!

A little over a year ago my beloved city of Nashville took a HUGE hit from massive flooding - the area is STILL trying to rebuild and recover. And, sadly --since then-- other, bigger, badder, even worse disasters have stricken other cities and countries around the world. People are truly suffering!!!

And then there is THIS sorry excuse of an individual - a twice-proven false prophet who is raking in millions of dollars... and all FOR WHAT?

As Ron White would say, "You can't fix stupid." That is all Camping is, STUPID. I wish his dumb ass followers would see him for what he is. He'll be wrong in October and watch December 21, 2012 come around and nothing will happen. Whoever sold their possessions because of this "prediction" got exactly what they deserve. End of Story. It is a fact that no one will know when the world will end and Jesus didn't even know, so what makes this idiot think he has an inside pass to know when the end of the world will be? No one, except for God will know the day or the hour the world will end. That includes the Mayans. These end of the world predictions are getting annoying and people need to learn to live their lives to the fullest and quit dwelling upon crap like this. END OF STORY.

Ron-424486-

Perhaps you'll be interested to know that Islam is very similar to Christianity, but comes in a manner that can be thought of as more...humanizing (not the right word, but read this and you'll understand). We don't believe Jesus is the Son of God, but rather that he was a highly respected man and God's prophet (contrary to popular belief, although we regard Muhammad pbuh very highly, we think of him as no more than a prophet as well, and on the same level as Jesus and all other prophets).

We also believe that the Gospel is God's word, but that it has been changed overtime by humans to the point it is no longer all His own words. In addition, we believe the Scriptures (of Abraham), Psalms of David, and Torah are also God's word, but that they have been too greatly distorted to still be God's word. The Qur'an is now the only remaining Book that is God's word, and it's provable that it hasn't changed in the last 1400 years. Just look at a copy of a Qur'an from the Caliphate and look at a modern copy...you'll notice they're exactly the same. That's why we all try to read it in Arabic, when you translate it the meaning gets slightly distorted, but there's nothing wrong in reading it in another language, so long as your intention is pure.

We also believe in the creation of the world in six days, and the whole Adam and Eve deal with the banishing from Heaven. However, we strongly believe you cannot depict God as we don't know what He looks like. We refer to Him as He because He Himself does, but we are forbidden (it is considered a HUGE sin in fact) to portray him. The part in Genesis that God says he created Adam in his likeness is one of the additions, we believe, humans have made to the Bible.

I'm curious. Why wasn't this guy packed? One would think that with his prophetic knowledge, he would have liquidated his possessions (house, car, etc.) and partied like it was 1999. Instead, he sneaks out the back door, hides out in a hotel, and orders room service.

Now he is predicting a later in the year scenario? It seems that even he would be annoyed with his own nonsense by now.

Dear Retired transit worker in New York City who is reputed to have spent approximately $140,000 on billboard advertising in order to proclaim this end-of-the-world event,

Please send me the remainder of your money, if any. You don't need it.

Yours truly, B

To formerstew:

Now he is predicting a later in the year scenario? It seems that even he would be annoyed with his own nonsense by now.

Not as long as that green is rolling in, baby. With all the benighted listeners out there who are dutifully sending in those Family Radio envelopes stuffed with personal checks and cash, Camping will be more than happy to keep grinding out those End of Days prophecies like link sausages.

"$34 million in stocks or other publicly traded securities."

Pretty much says it all. Think he will sell them ? I doubt it. Fools are soon parted from their money.

There is a sucker born every minute along with a con artist to "fleece the flock". Only the weak, stupid and/or dysfunctional gravitate to these types of religious loonie toons. When and if the world ends, no "God" is going to have anything to do with it. That is the reality. Get use to it.

! ASININE !

These "Judgement day" posts are ALL so senseless!

Why post crap like this ANYWHERE?

Your'e only encouraging this type of PHONEY WACKOS!

Think of the lives he has ruined.

I don't waste time thinking about morons who give money to people like this. They ruined their own lives.

Just thought I'd stop in to say told you so. Now go pray for forgiveness or whatever it is you religious woo-woo's do.

redwhiteandblue, that was... by far... the BEST description of Islam I have ever read. I have copied and pasted it so that I can use it to explain it to the ignorant. Now I just need to find someone as eloquent as you to summarize Shinto, and I'll have them covered. Don't get me wrong... I am not a follower of any religion, but an atheist at heart. I am well versed in many of the major religions... unlike most Americans... so that I can argue points and show flaws in religions. As you may guess, christianity is my favorite, since I was being brainwashed but Roman Catholics growing up.

The problem is with the bible, it is like a buffet. Anyone that reads it finds something in it that they like and they latch on to it and it becomes a quote they can rip off. Some people dwell on Jesus returning... some on the end of the world... others that the book is about love. The problem is that if you look at the history of christians most war and violence comes from them. The Crusades, part 1 and 2, the Spanish Inquisition, all of the Witch Trials (both in Europe and America), the attempted genocide of the American indian, clinic bombings, doctor assassinations, lynchings... I can go on and on. I have no clue how any christian could ever think that one of them would ever go to heaven simply for the sins of their brethern and forefathers. The simple lack of humility and common courtesy of other religions rebel against everything in your precious story book. Look at all the people that killed their pets thinking that they were being raptured on Saturday... how does that sit with your book? Would they still have been raptured, even with the fresh blood on their hands? How ignorant and assumptive can they be...

..its not dumb, and no one should criticize them for believing what they believe.. instead, the rest of us need to recognize it for what it is - immature thinking. its like a baby thats made a mess, and thinks mommy will fix it, or daddy will rescue me.. we (humanity) have made a huge mess, and here is the mature reality that G-d is forcing us to realize NO ONE IS GOING TO COME AND TAKE YOU AWAY OR CLEAN UP YOUR MESS FOR YOU!.. we've been given the tools (mankind made in the image of G-d), therefore WE need to fix this world and our relationship with one another.. so the next time you hear someone say "how could G-d allow that to happen", ask yourself, how could "I" have allowed that to happen...

Hey what this really is, is just a date for his own personal rapture.

It's just a date for him to disappear by, using the funds he got from idiots around the world. lol

The end is NEVER nigh!

Actually I made a t-shirt with that on it yesterday on cafe press. I hope to sell a lot of those between now and 12/21/12.

I don't feel comfortable making fun of this fellow or his followers. I am sad for them. Seems like I remember from Sunday School as a kid that nobody will know when this is supposed to happen, so they should probably read their own play book.

Toasty, I hadn't heard about the pets. That's sad too.

Honestly, I would love rapture to happen! That way all of the absurd and silly Jesus-freaks can be taken and those of us who're remaining can actually begin to enjoy Christianity again.

Enjoy christianity?! I was thinking of living in peace without having someone else's belief system jammed down our throats. Just think... with them gone... no more censored television. No more using the kids as an excuse to push thru more restrictive rules... guilt is such a christian tool. But nooooooooooo... Camping just had to be wrong. Yet another christian that can't get it right.

redwhiteandblue15,

Your religion makes perfect sense, if you believe in the "creation of the world in 6 days" by an angry god that didn't know what he/she/it was doing because he/she/it repented of what he/she/it had created, I am sure you also believe this fairy tale:

"The belief that some cosmic zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree."

Let me know when is the next fairy tale time...

ChrisWanker: who're is not a contraction... I know it's just a mistake and not the end of the world but I thought I'd tell you.

Ya, Vlad... we ALL know it isn't the end of the world. :D

Everyone wants to feel like they are part of some 'elite' group.

That explains the followers of Camping, David Koresh, Jim Jones, Osama bin Laden, the people who blame unauthorized immigrants for everything under the sun, and the Tea Party.

IDIOT!

Then again, he's built an organization that has over $100 million in assets. Some would say he's quite clever, and that it's his benfactors who are the idiots.

Nah, he's still an idiot. Just not as big an idiot as his benefactors are. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

ChrisWanker: who're is not a contraction...

And it usually doesn't have that apostrophe in it, either.

Gendolkari:

If there is no God, I cannot see why there is a devil...just people f'g things up.

I never said there is no God. I said the Bible is a grand deception, that it is not really the word of God. It is what Men imagined God's words would be. However, it was also conjured up by those same men in a way to help those with power and control gain even more power and control over the pion masses, which is why it has an evil influence over it from the very beginning (Torah). Good and evil (God and Devil - see the phonetic connection?) only exists in the hearts and actions of men, and that is the only way both manifest into the real world.

The fact is that the archeology and paleontology work being done in Israel, mostly by folks at Israeli Universities, have uncovered that much of Torah/Old Testament is an inaccurate account of historical events at best, and flat out wrong at worst.

And by "exists" I mean this reality that we all perceive with our 6+ senses, this 4 dimensional construct that we call the Universe. God and Devil exist outside of it, or "above it." They cannot directly influence any of this reality that we perceive. Only within our own minds.

I think it is also important for people to understand that the Devil is a part of God. God is both Good and Evil. God is, by a primitive human standard of thinking, imperfect. However, without both, none of this reality would exist as it is. The universe would not have been possible without the Super Symmetry that literally permeates every single aspect of this entire Universe. Free will would not be possible. The problem we perceive, as it really has been so eloquently put before, is a problem of choice.

Thank you Kinkomaster!!! It's nice to see that there are non-Muslims that understand Islam out there, and do not judge it by what they hear from biased sources. If you or ANYONE wishes to know what Islam is, I recommend dropping by your local mosque sometime, many Muslims are very happy to explain our religion to non-believers, but we oftentimes don't know how or where to start. My own mosque holds Open Houses every year, and I'm pleased to say we get a fair turnout every year, it's wonderful to see so many people coming to get the facts straight, and I can tell you they never leave without feeling satisfied by the explanations.

@Vlad in TN

ChrisWanker: who're is not a contraction... I know it's just a mistake and not the end of the world but I thought I'd tell you.

Ummm... Look it up on Dictionary.com.

who're

[hoo-er]

contraction of who are: Who're the people at the next table?

It's in the dictionary, therefore it's a correct word. Oh and by the way, no one likes a Grammar / Spelling Nazi! So do us a favor and only proofread your own postings.

b-895713,

Just because this guy is wrong and had no chance of being right (obviously he needs to retake Bible 101), doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. Just because people mess up a relationship w/ God & His Word and add on man made laws or interpretations to support what they want to believe doesn't mean that God and His Word are wrong. People mess things up. And people like this are always making God look bad. But it doesn't mean God isn't perfect.

There certainly isn't anything in the rapturist that means that "God exists" or "that God and His Word are wrong", either, but the only way that one can say he does and they aren't is to believe - all without any real evidence. That is called faith, making it sound much more legitimate than make believe.

Again if living right is important and humanly doable, there is no need to believe in a god or some words called the word of god to live right. So it doesn't matter about gods and words of gods. No one can really know if there is a god or not, but we all know what living right is. Trying to know the unknowable is a waste of time, especially if we can spend that time and energy living right.

redwhiteandblue15

No, the quran is just one more work of man. None of these godly books is any more the work of god than the Las Vegas Yellow Pages. This does not mean they don't contain the best of man's thinking (at least in part) or contain generally valuable lessons in life. But we must be careful not to believe them too literally as they also contain some of the worst in human behavior. Not all of what they contain pertains to today. For instance, working on the sabbath, eating pork, drawing any image (including god's) do not have and have never had ANYTHING to do with spirituality and certainly do not fit today's world.

They all should be looked at as ancient texts of ancient men (yes, not women) in ancient cultures, with some interesting stories and some real wisdom applicable to today - but no doubt, they are 100% the work of man from a bygone era and cultures long out dated.

No, the quran is just one more work of man. None of these godly books is any more the work of god than the Las Vegas Yellow Pages.

I believe the Yellow Pages are the work of the devil...

Well said, Ron.

Well Ron,

All I have to say is "Unto me is my religion, and unto you is yours." (Surah Al-Kaafiroon) Ok I guess you don't exactly have a religion. ummm..philosophy??? I guess Atheism can be considered that. I'll respect you for what you believe...or don't believe if you'll respect me for what I do.

I can certainly ignore your religion. Just don't try to weasel your superstitious beliefs into the schoolrooms.

So long as you don't mean Sunday School, I think I can live with that. lol. Well...high school and middle school world history classes DO have that section on world religions, but it's good to understand various beliefs as it strengthens respect for that culture.

I've read a lot of comments about Camping, and his followers, being dumb-asses, idiots, fools, etc., but there's one point that I haven't seen anyone mention. That point is he's a retired civil engineer! What, where and how many projects did he work on throughout his career!? Has anyone checked into that? I mean, if he's this much of an idiot about religion what other aspects is he an idiot about?

If he can't even figure out the bible numerology then how can he figure out how many cubic yards of pre-stressed concrete to use to build a bridge!! LMAO!!

even a moron can become president -- Dumbya Bush proved that.

Camping is an idiot. His only fortune is that he's found a lot of peoepl even more stupid than he is to give him money. And, what is the common denominator? The BuyBull. Go figure. Hey -- whaddya know -- the same book that Dumbya Bush even had wedged under his arm...

Garrett

He owned a construction company in the SF Bay area. When his company grew big enough he didn't need to work on it that much and was able to spend his time developing a radio ministry.

Eventually he sold his company and has been able to live off of the proceeds the rest of his life.

That is why he has never taken one cent from Family Radio.

As the President and CEO he should be entitled to a wage, but he wanted it to be clear he wasn't in it for the money. I am pretty sure he also doesn't believe lots of money is all that necessary, he teaches God provides what we need.

For the past 50 years he has been an unpaid full time volunteer.

Kind of refreshing when you look around.

That is why he has never taken one cent from Family Radio.

You're telling me, and everyone else, that hes been living strictly off the money he got from selling his company!? And, that his radio show/company (whatever) is worth how many tens of millions of dollars and he hasn't touched a penny of it!? Yeah, uh huh.

Kind of refreshing when you look around.

Are you kidding me!!?? Do I really need to reply to that statement!? You gave him money didn't you? Did you drive around with sign on your car/rv also? The man is a fake and a liar...period.

If he can't even figure out the bible numerology then how can he figure out how many cubic yards of pre-stressed concrete to use to build a bridge!! LMAO!!

Spiritual matters are an entirely different thing than engineering. One is heavenly and other earthly. you cannot understand the spiritual things of God by the earthly things. Bible is "spiritually discerned" and needs "understanding that is from above"

Further knowledge and spirituality are different things. You can gain knowledge about bible by reading bible or books written about bibles. In order to have spirituality one needs to be "born again of spirit and water" "a new birth". It is the spirituality that enables a man to understand the Word of God according to the mind of God. Satan has the knowledge of the entire bible but has zero spirituality, thats why he used the Word of God in order to serve his purpose.

4000 + comments ( including my own , } validating this fool simple by posting ( me included) I wonder who the clowns and fools really are ( me included) him or us ?

Garrett

You're telling me, and everyone else, that hes been living strictly off the money he got from selling his company!? And, that his radio show/company (whatever) is worth how many tens of millions of dollars and he hasn't touched a penny of it!? Yeah, uh huh.

Yep, that's the fact's Jack.

He has been checked out. He owned a major construction company in the Boom period of the SF Bay area. He started his company shortly after WW2. Those kinds of companies are worth huge amounts of money.

Of course some people would rather believe rumors and lies.

There's lot's wrong with Camping, no need to lie about him.

ChrisWanker: LOL bro, I didn't mean to kick a hornet's nest. I really don't give a damn about proper and lesser used contractions as it was just a lead in for my lame ass joke. Your post seemed lighthearted and I figured you'd just brush off the BS grammar nazi part.
Peace bro.

No worries. I saw the "it's not the end of the world" part, but too many people really do try to proofread others' postings. So I saw it as a 50-50 joke.

Spiritual matters are an entirely different thing than engineering. One is heavenly

Correction: it is unprovable mythology.

Correction: it is unprovable mythology.

Just as evolution is unprovable hocus pocus

Harold Camping = FILBERT

and his following = SHEEP

Open wide and say "BAAAA"

Dumb? He recieved over $70 million in cash donations and over $30 million in assets.

Just like Jerry Falwell.

He just can't get enough attention!

When the date arrives in October, let's all run and hide Shut everything down and we will all meet at a predesignated spot. We just need to leave a few good actors around to run around hysterically. Also a few concealed cameras. Then let's watch his reaction.

Oh, and BYOB. Maybe some major sponsors could bring the chips, dips and things to grill. I'll bet if he gets a whiff of charcoal smoke he will really get worried.

See comment #1.52 regarding food and drink. As far as clothing...optional. To quote Brother Dave Gardner, "I believe if we were moral we could all go nude."

I want to know why this guy hasn't been arrested for inciting a riot. Shouldn't screaming "End of the World" be up there with screaming fire in a crowded theater? He's just another fear mongering con artist slimeball. The sad fact is, people will still believe him. Worser still, there are people actually praying for the end of all life, just so they can be right.

You honestly think that the end of the world is going to happen magically? That one day God's going to reward you for ostracizing and condemning all your fellow man, making their life a living hell by beating them to death with your beliefs? No. The Apocalypse is going to be a man-made creation, if I had to put my thumb on it. No one'll know when it'll happen, so just keep living your lives, be good to each other, and stop screaming that everyone's going to die.

The man amassed over 100 million dollars with his crap. How many of you here present have 100 million $ ? You're all just pissed because he's gonna get away with it and start over. Be mad at the sheep. Hate the game, not the player....

He needs to stop messing with the stupid people of the world. All he's doing, is teasing the poor saps who need this kind of thing.

That's just mean.

Terrifying stupid people is a good thing. I made it my hobby. It's really lots of fun.

This man is almost as good as bankers who make believe they deserve many millions. So: we have the strange charade of one who clones total concern for the other worlds of after life acting exactly like the worse of this world scumbags.

This man is 89 why would he be worried about the rapture? He and I and many others will be moving on soon anyway.

It is being projected that Obama will get over one billion in donations for re-election. We will still have Gitmo, still be at war in the middle east and still be broke. Everything he does not spend on the campaign he gets to keep. Who are the sheep?

Leave your Obama hating out of this. Go peddle your crap somewhere else.

When they are against the ropes and their god has let them down, Obama-baiting is all they have left.

It's sad, really.

Obama-baiting? hahahaha.

This from the party of "You're a racist!".

The follow-up test will be when October 21st comes and goes without incident. Will the believers perpetuate the delusion or re-evaluate their belief?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Harold Camping is a dumbass. Anyone that believes anything that comes out of this guy's mouth is a dumbass.

and, anyone that believes any of the superstitious nonsense in the bible is a dumbazz!

RE: post #2.16 by Mr G...

The follow-up test will be when October 21st comes and goes without incident. Will the believers perpetuate the delusion or re-evaluate their belief?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

This was his 'fool me twice'... October 21st will be this man's THIRD offense.

Too bad false prophecy doesn't work on the same rules as baseball, and this old fool could be called 'OUT'.

And the bewildering thing is... there will STILL be people who will believe that Oct 21 really will be the end of the world.

You can't spell 'believe' without 'lie.'

If Camping is indeed a prophet, he's a really, REALLY crappy one.

No kidding, JKiff - it's hard to fathom such an extreme level of gullibility. It's scary, really.

formerstew - That's the thing, he is NOT a 'prophet'... not even a really, REALLY crappy one!

For those of you that are calling Harold Camping "idiot and stupid", you are so off. He is a smart charlatan who is good at bilking others outta their cold hard cash! He's done it more than once before and he'll keep doing it until he gets arrested for fraud or he dies. Please ppl, don't be a sucker yet again for this POS. If you want to give your $$ away, give it to the needy people who have lost everything in these horrible "acts of god." Please come to your senses. Blondie

I feel the same way about Obama and his congregation

I don't recall any of his followers so believing what he says having slashed their kid's throats because of it. So feel anyway you want, but don't derail a seed to share, okay?

Really? Politics? Are you that sad that you have nothing to say on religion or that you are so spiteful against one man that you have to bring up something that has no relevance whatsoever to the conversation except the pathetic verbage you decided to use. You realize that all you did was open yourself up for a beating, right? Ever heard of the religious RIGHT? Considering that yet another religious RIGHT leader has made himself look like a total nutcase, you need to take a shot at Obama.

You know... at least "Obama's congregation" doesn't kill their pets, get rid of all their belongings, and wait for a pretend guy who lives in the clouds to come take them away. Just think... all these people more than likely vote REP.

Do us all a favor. If you feel the need to slam on Obama because you are STILL sore that you lost the election. Find a political thread and knock yourself out on there.

Agreed! Politics have no need to be brought up in this discussion. Politics are full of people and con artists who thought they were doing the right thing, but just ended up looking like fools... maybe this is the right forum for politics? Just joking!

The follow-up test will be when October 21st comes and goes without incident. Will the believers perpetuate the delusion or re-evaluate their belief?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

I'm afraid these people are so weak minded that they will perpetually believe whatever Harold Camping tells them, no matter how many times it turns out to be wrong.

There is a "spiritual test" going on here. Are you willing to give up on the world, to give up on the Paradise (Earth) that you were given a chance to be a part of? If so, your soul is probably going to Hell/Oblivion, because what you wish for (the end of days) is really no different than a desire to commit suicide.

The blind followers of this false prophet Harold Camping better start thinking twice about how and why they have allowed themselves to be seduced by this evil deceiver.

They better start thinking about how to get right with Jesus because wishing for the end of days is exactly what the Devil wants them to do in order to have their eternal souls.

If you want to give your $$ away, give it to the needy people who have lost everything in these horrible "acts of god

Yeah, or just give it to me, I could use the bread!

um...spellcheck isn't going to pick up on that one.

Oops, you caught them... AP originally stood for Atheist Press, but they changed it to fool all those crazy Christians out there.

No, it doesn't, Divah. Not unless it occurs at the beginning of a sentence. Didn't you go through grade school?

Toasty McGrath - If you knew anything about God you would know that anytime you are referring to God you always capitalize "His"... Obviously you didnt go to Sunday schood.

@toasty - I think Divah is correct. "His" is capitalized, because it refers to God. Anyword that refers to God and is used in place of "God" is capitalized. ie.

"His" word, "His" people...just one of the crazy rules used regarding dieties.

That's not always followed these days. It SHOULD be, but it isn't.

We are all well aware of the ridiculous capitalization rule of god's pronouns, but many of us choose not to follow such triviality.

I meant "not unless it occurs at the beginning of a adult's sentence."

Alright, satire aside, I suppose you're right that the rule is that any deity's reference is capitalized, be it Yaweh, Thor, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Does anyone know if the same goes for plural? I mean, would it be "Them" or "them?" Where is Emily Post when you need her...

it's Yahweh Toasty, any sunday schooler knows that....

If God's the type of dude to be offended by someone not capitalizing His pronouns - then I assume He is probably a total d-bag. Wait... total D-bag. There we go, had to capitalize it.

Laura... big into Sunday School? Find it funny that you are anal about putting caps on him, but you don't cap up school? Why one and not the other? I mean any second grader knows to cap a proper name.

Oh, and why does god have to be a guy? Why not a she or an it? I like the spaghetti monster myself. The only thing better would be a huge middle finger. I say that simply by the way that it... sorry... It treats Its followers/ pets. Such a cruel god teasing you all with false hope all the time. Tell me, the good christians that killed their pets to get raptured... think they get to go up on the next go round?

I'm so relieved, my faith is confirmed, as long as it's going to be on the 21st, any 21st I'm satisfied!! I know this prophecy is the right one. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the 22 of May I heard the deep voice of God say; "DAMN I MISSED AGAIN!"

"His" is capitalized, because it refers to God.

there is no real need to capitalize pronouns that refer to a mythical creature.

Actually capitalizing His name has nothing to do with crazy rules, it has to do with respect for God as our Creator, Heavenly Father, and friend.

Interesting... you show that much respect for something you have never seen, have no proof of (and using the whole "look at the world around you" crap doesn't fly... science says something else), and rely on a book written by man to quote its supposed word. I don't know you, Banshee, so I will not insult you. I will say this, tho. The majority of christians that talk like you are also the ones that have no tolerance for others, and not a drop of humility.

When christians quote the bible to me, they might as well read me a story from Mother Goose, because both books send the same type of messages. The bible is NOT the word of god. Until you can produce the original scriptures or even an original bible, it is just a story book. If your answer is to have faith in it, why not put that blind faith in yourself and be a more self-reliant person instead of using an invisible person as a crutch?

Kinkomaster - Kink wrote "science says something else." Yes, science says the Big Bang created/began this universe, a one-time event without an apparent cause, in violation of scientific principles. Science also (generally) says life spontaneously arose from non-living material. Both of these beliefs require a bit of faith, do they not? Kink wrote: "rely on a book written by man" Aren't all books written by men? (Even those said to be inspired by God or nature or logic, or whatever are penned by man.) Kink wrote: "until you can produce the original scriptures." Do you need the original document Newton wrote to believe in the Law of Gravity?

In short, people will believe in what they wish to believe, sometimes regardless of facts, logic or reality. I'm sure all of us believe and understand some things incorrectly.

interesting... that you would put faith into yourself. We all make mistakes and get things wrong. I would rather have faith in an "invisible" God than myself or anyone else. I make too many mistakes to believe I can make everything better or fix everything wrong in my life. I'm the one that cause the mistakes to begin with. I would rather read and learn from a book full of truths and stories that show love and forgiveness. It always strikes me funny when I hear someone say, "the Bible is full of stories that show a mean and unloving God," when in fact if you read the Bible, it tells of an "invisible" God that has given man many second chances and has given us directions to guide our lives to one that is full of love, charity, faith, promise, tolerance and forgiveness.

It always makes me sad to see someone use the Bible to get their own selfish needs. It also makes me sad to see people lump all Christians into one pot and because of a few people that only take a few verses from the Bible and turn it into some kind of gross interpretation, then we all are some kind of fanatical nut jobs. The same could be said for the Muslim faith. If that is the case, then any atheist that spouts off some kind of wacko statement could be applied to all atheists, but that would be unfair and that would be against the Christian faith. God tells us to leave the judging to Him when something falls outside of man's laws and we sometimes don't do a very good job of it, but that just proves how imperfect we are. Which brings up another debate of laws and where God fits into them, but I'll leave that one alone.

So many people claim that they are Christian, but can tell you nothing of the faith or only have some recollection of something the pastor said last Sunday. To have faith in God, but never truly learn about God or take the time to see what you are putting your 'faith' into is damaging to everyone involved. Man is flawed and to think otherwise is in it flawed. We have shown time and time again that when we do what we think is right and turn away from the basic principles that the Bible teaches that we only end up hurting ourselves causing more hurt and pain.

The Bible was written by men under the inspiration of God and if God is as powerful as to create a universe, then I think He could inspire a few men to write what he wanted. You could say that God used ghostwriters to pen his works just like many men have done through time.

So why don't I put blind faith in myself, because I suck at life and if left up to me, I would leave this world a wosre place than when I was born. I would rather have an "invisible person" giving me solid advice about life and giving me something better than myself to live for.

I ask that everyone please don't base your views of Christians and God on the few squeaky wheels and mislead followers that seem to always find their way into the media. A true Christian would never tell you how unloved your are, but tell you how loved you truly are and that Jesus is waiting for you. Any religion based on scare tactics is missing the point. The Bible says that, "He so LOVED the world..." not that He so wanted to scare you out of your wits, sell everything you own, or have you call out everyone's mistakes and sins.

Kinkomaster -If any Christian has ever made you feel less than a person or treated you without love and forgiveness, then I appologise for them and hope you know that they does not represent my faith very well and ask for your forgiveness. Jesus taught love and forgiveness of others and that God gave man free will and it is our choice to follow or not. The best way I can show you my faith is to live my faith and not force you into anything that you can not put your heart and soul into. Thank you for all your post and for your insight.

Yeah cause he's a money changer - changes other people's money into his.

He also missed the prediction date for "April Fools"!!!

Harold Camping: "I've figured out that the date will be May 21st, 2011."

God: "Well son, looks like we can cross that date off the list of possibilities."

Nice one, Mikey!

Maybe he was saved to teach him some more 'Humility'. Sorry Harry, you and your people and your so called Faith appear pretty dopey in the World at this Stage.

Check your consciousness level for help!

Sorry Harry, you and your people and your so called Faith appear pretty dopey...

We should pray for natural selection to run it's course.

I can't help but be reminded of "THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF"

This wacko and his followers are fools, plain and simple.

well, they follow bible-nonsense. what did you expect?

Nothing that Harold did followed the writings of the Bible.

Phyllis- I encourage you to read the Bible, maybe even get a study guide to help with any concepts that you might not understand. Mr.Camping either did not read his Bible fully or was mislead by someone about the rapture. To call the Bible nonsense, but never read it is like saying you hate English Peas and never have taken a bite of them. I say read it and truly judge for yourself and at lease when a Christian wants to debate the Bible, you will more than likely know it better than them and win your point of view.

Not only "these people". Scratch the surface of many who believe in these things (but not knowing the exact date) and you'll find people who are pretty miserable with 'this world' and wanting to move on to what they're hoping is the next.

If I had their intelligence, I'd want to die too...

LOL! Oh this would be funny if it wasn't so sad that there are so many idiots out there that actually believe all of this.

You'd think that after 2,000+ years we'd realize that this book is a lovely complilation of tall tales.

You have to give Camping some credit, it looks like he was half right. The rapture didn't happen but the second coming of Christ did. His name is Ra-el (in old biblical languages this literally means "The Word of God") He is proclaiming to be the second coming and made his announcement to the world on Saturday May 21st on youtube and his site www.ra-el.com. Let me tell you he is pisst off and is telling the world that Judgment is upon the earth. No offense to him but he looks just like an overweight Jesus. He even has the garments to go with it.

Try listening in to a sermon some time, Drgnldy. Christianity revolves around the idea that humans are unworthy sinners and you should feel guilty and ashamed of yourself. It's a control tactic- the leaders want you to feel bad and have low self esteem because it's easier to control you and bully you into donating your money to them so that you can be saved in the next life. Seriously, goths and emos have nothing on these people.

it's not that this life is so horrible, but the second coming is so much more glorious than anything you can possible imagine on earth. They don't call it the 'Rapture' for nothing. Can you imagine what it would be like to meet the Savior face-to-face? This is what drives people to believe people like Camping. It's too bad they don't search the scriptures for themselves.

Christianity is not about control, it's about freedom. Yes, we as humans are sinners and we were that was since we were first formed in the womb. The purpose of the gospel is not to beat you over the head with that fact constantly but to let you know that God loves his children in spite of the fact of our flaws and unworth. God's love is more deep, full, and complete than anything we can imagine. God makes us free from the punishment of sin and is not a cruel master constantly beating our psyche with the fact we have evil in our hearts

As an atheist, I have to say that I find the idea of the gospel continually preaching about about our "unworth" to be not only extremely distatesful, but inherently manipulative. If there is a god which has created this paradise for immortal souls, why would they bother with us at all if we were so lacking in inherent worth? Claiming that we should be beneath contempt for god but they love us anyway is the very definition of passive-aggressive behavior. You tend to see the exact same thing in abusive relationships. Likewise to claim that a human has commited sin just by existing is deeply disturbing.

And as an ex-catholic, I also have to say that I take issue with the fact that people are so eager to obsess over getting to Heaven because it's a better place than Earth. Jesus says over and over in the new testament that it is the responsibility to try to model our world on that in Heaven. Too many fanatics seem to interpret this as a world where everyone believes the same thing, but in fact most of Jesus's examples of this are more or less devoid of elements of faith and instead focus on compassion, generosity, selflessness, and above all else tolerance. I suspect if he were to meet most of the people who view existence as nothing more but the lead-up to heaven he would be sorely disappointed.

Personally, I believe that there's a lot of good to be found in religious texts. But the idea of original sin and the bulk of the dogma pushed by organized religion does not fall into that category.

Even though it was difficult to read, Batkacit, I respect and enjoyed reading your post.

Batkacit, that gave me a flash back. I learned from a priest how I could baptize my sisters before my parents had them baptized in church when they were much older. I now realize I acted out of fear. It was certainly not a good thing. My religious up bringing ultimately had a derogatory effect upon me.

We will see who gets the laugh laugh in the end Indigo Kid...and where your tall tales will be when your begging for mercy when it's too late!

Sounds to me like he was stoned!

Hmmm well Ill avoid whatever he was smoking, I prefer to have fun when I get high not tell everyone they are going to die.

@ G-Dog, best thing I've seen about this whole Rapture craziness. I laughed so hard I cried!!! Love it!

That's the problem in a nutshell[pardon the pun] he's believing that bible

Unlike the Red Bull, the BuyBull will not give you wings.

Coach, you're wrong. He's not believing the bible. The bible teaches that NO ONE KNOWS or can know when He'll return.

Well, like one of his followers said "I don't want the world to end, I will miss my family. But because I believe in God I had to accept that it was really going to happen." This guy actually felt obligated to believe this nonsense because he believed in God? wtf...

This is what happens when you grow up listening to preachers telling you what the Bible is saying. He didn't even question Camping's interpretation - because it came from the Bible, therefore it must be true.

Yep that is exactly what happened to false prophets. What a scam! Shame on them, I wonder how much money they were donated this time around?

He IS STONED! What do you mean he should be?

it sounds like the ones who donated 18.3 million dollars were the ones stoned!!!!!!!!!

There is such thing as a true prophet? Since when?

Whether he should be stoned or nor, the problem is in finding someone without sin to cast the first stone. Any volunteers?

the bible is a mythical cult book, Laura. nothing more. so, relax!

Whether he should be stoned or nor, the problem is in finding someone without sin to cast the first stone. Any volunteers?

---------------------------------

I don't suppose you stopped to think that this phrase about he who is without sin casting the first stone was a brilliant way for the Church to keep the sheeple from taking any stand against nonsensical Church policy? Also, that the brainwashing (neuro-linguistic programming to be exact) has worked for centuries to keep the masses subservient to the policies of the Church, aka the policies of the power hungry manipulators behind the Church. There is nothing holy about the Church

PUT YOUR FAITH IN NO MAN....does that sound familiar, or did you not pick that one when you were picking and choosing which parts of the bible would suit you?

the bible is a mythical cult book, Laura. nothing more. so, relax

------------------------

it is funny that you mention this book being cult mythology...the actual history of the religion, if one were to care to learn it, clearly indicates that it is basically a mutt religion, they stole ideas from several pagan religions and kind of mashed them all into one. Funny that the followers of Christianity like to label all other religions as a cult, when their beliefs and bible are in fact a conglomeration of the beliefs of several cults. Irony is one of my favorite things :)

I like the biblical response to this charlatan, thumbs up Airtight.

Fool you once shame on me. (1994)

Fool you Twice Same on you. (5/21/11)

Fool you Thrice, your an idiot. (10/21/11)

truthhurtsattimes, people like you are the reason people are dying and going t Hell. The Bible is true and in the end God will have the last laugh. If you study your Bible and history you will find many of the prophecies that were foretold ahead of time have come true, in fact more than half of them. We are close but no man knows when exactly, even I as a Christian am looking at this man and shaking my head sadly because he is what Jesus called a wolf in sheep's clothing and a false prophet.....The blind leading the blind.

the BuyBull is a mythical cult book. and nobody, including you, has ever proven that any god exists.

cheers!

pssst. sarah. i hate to tell you .. but that's not real. it's a book of fiction.

pssst raven, I love to tell you, its only not real to you and every other athiest out there.

Mr. Pink...prove it.

I dont need to prove it, its called faith for me. Lets see you prove it's not, forget that, lets see you prove there isn't a God.

Asking someone to prove a negative doesn't say much about your intellect there, Genius.

Especially your genius remark that a certain book that you have obviously done extensive research on is false. I think the point you missed that I was making was neither you or i can prove or disprove there is a God. For me, I have my faith and that works fine for me. But when I see silly remarks, I just have to say something. So do you think everything in the bible is false?

psst, Raven-have you read "The Dark Side of Darwin" your idol? It seems he liked to beat animals to death.

Psst, Are you all still whispering?

Hmmm, Mr. Pink...I don't remember making any comments about a book or the bible. Perhaps your inability to follow a thread explains your inability to follow logic.

As for what I believe about the bible...I believe it is a book of collective stories. Did some of the people in the book exist? Perhaps. Does it contain some stories that promote values that we should aspire to? Yes. However, it also contains completely outrageous stories that one would have to suspend all belief to accept, and contains disgusting stories of murder, rape and incest.

I'd liken it to fables in the same vein as Aesop and the Brothers Grimm.

My bad Carianne, i mistakenly took you for Raven. My attention was divided, since Im at work. But my same point still stands. I've seen many a comment, especially on here, by scientists scolding believers that there is no God. But all science can do is show how life, Earth and the universe works. This in no way shows or proves there is no God. You either choose to believe this is all a happy accident or there is intelligent design behind it. Since neither side can prove or disprove God all Raven did was poke fun. I in return poked fun right back. I as well look more to the stories in the bible as a guide to having a better moral compass. Did Adam and Eve really eat the apple? Probably not and points more to how abusing knowledge can lead to problems.

Where do you think morals came from? They came from God. As in the Ten Commandments. ALLLLLL the basic moral laws came from God.

So what you atheists are saying is illogical. If there is no Creator who commands us to follow certain laws, then humans should be able to do what they want, as in-take other people's property if they like it, kill any persoon that they want to, lie whenever it will promote them, have sex with whomever you want to, whenever you want to, even if the other person doesn't want it, etc., etc.

You can't make any moral judgements about any of this, because there IS no morality, since there is no basis for morality.

Lou, it's an evolved trait that makes perfect sense for a social species- groups whose individuals practice cooperation and altruism function much better than groups whose individuals are selfish backstabbers.

Also, it's funny that you mention things that people do every day as examples of things people would do if morals didn't come from a god. And it's not atheists who are doing it, either. Study after study has shown that religion is no predictor for a person's behavior, there are actually more Christians who commit crimes than atheists, even when you adjust for relative population sizes Christians are still overrepresented among criminals compared to atheists, agnostics, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, or Buddhists.

I can make plenty of moral judgments because I have self respect and empathy for other individuals so I therefore treat them with respect and kindness. Are you saying that if you didn't believe in a god who was going to punish you in a pit of fire you'd be running around raping and killing people?

Oh, and that "Dark Side of Darwin" you mention? Pure fabrication written by an idiot with an agenda.

If you say morals are an evolved trait, then how do you explain the rapid increase in mass shootings, etc. that go on in our schools and colleges today? I'm saying that if there were no basis to the moral law, EVERYBODY (AND DON'T LIE TO YOURSELF) would be doing whatever they wanted to, and the world would be in chaos, and would not last very long.

How about AIDS? Is that how the human race is progressing? It's an INCURABLE, DEADLY disease. And it isn't going away.

As to your comment about the sinning that goes on among Christians. Where do you get your information as to Christians being overrepresented among criminals? That is patently false, and without basis.

Nobody said that Christians do not sin. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sins, He is FAITHFUL AND JUST, and will forgive our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". We are told to repent, which means that we will not, if we are truly Christians, live a life characterized by sin.

And your comment about the author? Pure fabrication by you, one with an agenda.

Lou, Christianity provides a set of moral rules, as does earlier religions, philosophies and contemporary moral theory. Morality however, is not, and never has been, the sole possession of Christianity.

I have never been religious. I think god does not exist and your bible is similar to any other collection of faerie tales. However, I have a highly refined sense of morals that I adhere to (usually more strictly than my religious friends).

Further, societies with the most orthodox religions are typically the least moral (i.e. middle east, Congo and medieval Europe). I'm not saying religion automatically equates to immorality, but there is more of a correlation there than I'm comfortable with.

Lou I have to say that that was beautiful. :)

Not everything humans do has to do with evolution. Evolution is nothing more than the changes organisms exhibit over time as the ones who are most suited to their current environment out-compete the ones who aren't. The "rise" in school shootings isn't actually as dramatic as it's made out to be by reactionary commentators, and besides, it's something that's primarily an American phenomenon. Other countries aren't seeing similar trends. In fact, from worldwide statistics, countries with very low rates of religion like Japan and Sweden have much lower rates of violent crime than extremely religions countries like the US.

AIDS is a virus. You do know what viruses are, right? Little bits of protein surrounding some DNA. Viruses evolve. And while it might be incurable now, that doesn't mean that it will continue to be incurable for all time. Already we have some very effective treatments for it that can give an infected person a much longer and less painful life than was available in the 70s or 80s. And it's funny that you should mention AIDS because there's an odd thing about it. About 10% of Caucasians have in their DNA an odd mutation. The only thing it seems to do is this: if a person has this mutation they are much more resistant to the AIDS causing virus to the point that some of them appear to be completely immune. Do you know what that is? Evolution in action, baby.

I get my information about Christians and crime from surveys the Department of Justice releases on a yearly basis. It's patently not false.

You claimed that morals come from god. Therefore, people who don't believe in god should exhibit less moral behavior than people who do believe in god. All evidence available shows that there is, in fact, no relationship to whether a person believes in god and whether or not they are prone to moral or immoral behavior.

I've seen the accusations made against Darwin, and so far none of the accusers have been able to offer up one shred of evidence in support. And you know what? Even if the accusations were true it wouldn't make one tiny bit of difference about whether or not evolution is true because science judges claims based off the evidence presented for them, not on ad hominems made against the person who came up with the idea. You seem to be laboring under the idea that evolution is like a religion and if you can prove that the founder is a bad person it will all come crashing down. Well, sorry, but that's not how it works. Even if you could somehow ruin Darwin's reputation, it wouldn't change science because other scientists have made substantial discoveries and added new information to what we know about evolution since Darwin's time. You're 150 years out of date.

And yes, I do have an agenda- to combat the lies and misinformation spread by ignorant trolls.

I can't follow much of the argument but I believe those who talk about Darwin abusing puppies or some such need to take a good, hard look at what their god just did to 116 humans in Joplin.......I know, I know, god works in mysterious ways yadda yadda.

Could someone please shut up lou and mr pink? Their blathering is giving me a headache.

Ok you guys are all arguing about morals. Well where do you think morals came from? Morals are all based around the ideas of good and evil: God and Satan. It doesnt matter if you believe in him or not. God is a constant, necissary part of this world, and especially this country. No matter what you believe, the idea of good and evil, God and Satan, effects your thoughts, your actions, your ideals, and pretty much your entire life. So even though you may not follow him, you cannot deny God. And even if you do deny him, whats the point? even if you think that God doesnt exist, so what? Even if he doesnt exist he still has a positive effect on people and ultimately, on the world.

Lou-

There's nothing stopping people from doing any of the things you've described here. Most of us are highly capable of such. But those who do tend to run into problems with a justice system of some sort, a social mechanism designed to encourage an orderly and functional society.

Slavery used to be acceptable. People who considered themselves to be good and even great Christians abused and tormented people day in and day out, treating them like property, and no one had any problem with it because by the standards of society there was nothing wrong with it. Even by the standards of religion there was nothing wrong with it. Today we recognize it for the despicable institution not because of some divine revelation, but because of a long and hard fought strugle to change the societies which tolerated it.

Furthermore, the fact that you seem to think that discrediting's personal life is a reasonable way to discredit evolution, that your comments about AIDS is in any way related to your argument, and the only quotes you provide are from biblical verses shows that you haven't actually bothered to examine the opposing view you are attempting to tear down. Werner VanBraun was a Nazi and a member of the SS before he helped design the rockets NASA used to put a man on the moon. None of that prevented the Saturn V from launching. Facts are facts, regardless of the source.

I'm an Atheist. I was raised catholic. I've read the bible, studied it, and debated it at length. I wouldn't think to call myself an expert, but I'm also hardly ignorant of its contents. Can you honestly say that you've ever bothered to understand the theory of evolution? Can you say that you've ever bothered to read up on philosophy concerning the debate between moral objectivism and moral relativism? Does any of the information you have on the topics you are so eager to dismiss come from sources which are not attempting to discredit the subject you are studying?

If your answers to all of those questions is anything other than yes, then how can you expect anyone to take your arguments seriously? Personally, I've never tried sushi. I just don't like the idea of eating raw fish wrapped in sea weed. But I'm not about to say that it's a disgusting, inedible food having never tried it for myself. Nor am I going to attack those who do eat it as having horrible taste.

Reason741, 200 years ago it was considered perfectly moral behavior to keep someone a slave based only on the color of his skin. The Bible, the supposed word of god, supported this practice in numerous passages. Now people who think slavery is good are considered to be anything but morals. The bible also says that a man's wife is his property and that he is entitled to demand sex from her any time he wishes with no consideration of her thoughts, and that it's acceptable to beat her with a wooden stick until she's bloody and bruised if she refuses. Today, that's considered rape and assault. The Bible says that children who talk back to their parents are to be taken to the city gates and stoned until dead. Today, that's first degree murder.

Morals are social constructions that continue to shift and change with society. Things change, and whether you like it or not you don't hold the same moral code that the Bible dictates because you're sitting on your computer reading this instead of serving time for first degree murder for killing someone who broke one of the numerous rules in the bible, like working on the Sabbath or eating shellfish.

Love the handle, therapsid! Good one!

pssst raven, I love to tell you, its only not real to you and every other athiest out there.

actually, it is ignored as nothing more than a mythical cult book by the vast majority of the people on earth. over 70% of our planet disregards it. and, those who do regard it as a "word of gawd" are in total disagreement of what it says, how it should be worshiped and how to interpret it. so disagreeable, in fact, that they have divided themselves up into over a thousand different denominations. bible followers are the most fractioned, hateful and disagreeable people on the planet! and, many hate each other!!

This is my second attempt at a post, but much shorter.

Regarding AIDS as evolution in action-not so, according to your evolutionary belief system. Evolution is a slowwwww process, over MILLIONS of years, remember? If it were faster we would be seeing apes changing into people. We would also see the human race becoming better and stronger-but it's only becoming worse and sicker. The current generation is going to be the first in many decades in which the children don't live longer lives than their parents.

I've seen so many misquotes about the Bible, I know that you all haven't really studied it. For example-a man who can demand sex from his wife even if she doesn't want it. Men are commanded to love their wives like themselves, and to give their lives for their wives, if necessary.

And again, with the food requirments, and ceremonial laws. When Jesus Christ stepped into history and suffered and died in our place, He abolished the Old Testament laws. If you don't know that, then you don't really know the Bible, like you claim to. Satan knows the Bible, too, and misquoted it, too.

As to Darwin-I realize it isn't pleasant to hear the truth about the pioneer in the evolutionary belief system, but that's just the way it is. A nasty dude, all around.

As to a man allowed to beat his wife bloody with a spoon-that's such a patent falsehood, I can't believe you would put such an obvious lie on here. Why don't you give us the chapter and verse where you found it? Better yet, why not just quote it on here? It isn't in the Bible.

And while you are at it, give the link to the Dept. of Justice statistics. LOL.

One of you refers to scientific discoveries as the proof that the evolutionary belief is right. You are confusing applied science with theoretical science. So are many scientists, who, because they know their applied science, feel capable of theoretical science. Actually, the term "theoretical" isn't the term I want to use, but it'll work for now.

like working on the Sabbath or eating shellfish.

You forgot my personal fav....wearing clothing of mixed fibers.

Lou, you have no concept of how evolution works. For single celled organisms which have a relatively simplistic genome and replicate every 45 minutes the ability to evolve is much faster than a complex organism which reproduces every 10 or 20 years (depending upon species).

Bacterium in particular have been shown to evolve in a matter of months in a lab setting when a consistent and mild stressor is applied.

During the industrial revolution in England the moth population evolved their pigmentation over a number of years. This species reproduces over a matter of weeks rather than every 45 minutes.

The longer the life cycle of the species, the slower the evolution. Further, the more complex the species, and the kind of evolutionary pressure applied influences speed of evolution. And lastly, apes will not evolve into men. they will evolve or die out dependent upon what pressures are placed upon the species.

Why is evolution so hard to believe by Christians? I really think that there is room for evolution in Christian thinking. If Christians(that includes me) believe that there is an all powerful God that is able to create the universe, whos to say that he did not create evolution as part of his plan for the world? I only remember what I learned from high school and college, so I would not even think about debating Darwin with anyone that has read his works. As far as Darwin the man, if I follow Jesus's teachings, what Darwin did is between him and God at this point and I'm not to judge him as he did not judge me. I really wish Christians would get off the big God horse they sit on and start reading the Bible alittle more and start following the teachings of Jesus.

I noticed some bring up slavery in the Bible; the old testament told the Jews to release slaves after they had repaid their debt and to release after a particular amount of time and the new testament speaks against slavery. Just like I would not debate the works of Darwin because I have not read and studied it, be careful in debating the Bible if you have not read and studied it. just because you went to church as a kid, that does not make you an expert in the Bible. Even with all my Biblical studies, I still find new things I did not know.

the new testament speaks against slavery

Thats not true.

The only thing that jesus ever said about slavery is that if you are a slave you should obey your master and work as hard as you can and do the best job that you can because your obedience to your master and your hard work will bring glory to god.

Why is evolution so hard to believe by Christians?

Because they are infected by brainwashing -- and by the nonsense in the BuyBull

Why is God so hard to believe by non Christians?

There is no proof of evolution.

Darwin had a theory that didn't work out. Since then scientists have created all sorts of theories in an attempt to keep evolution alive.

One theory, convergent evolution goes against the very basic concept that evolution was founded on.

Darwin look at the similar characteristics of creatures and hypothesized they had similar characteristics because they came from a common ancestor.

What we have discovered is creatures with no possibility of sharing a common ancestor also have similar characteristics. That discovery tore at the very foundation of evolution, it was necessary to create a theory to keep the belief system alive.

The camera eye is found in Humans, Squid, and the Box Jellyfish. Instead of realizing that an intelligent being reused characteristics, convergent evolution was born.

For such a trait to evolve in one group is pretty amazing. Two different groups, almost impossible. Three, not much of a chance.

JOregon,

Your entire post just proved my 'theory'. You did give him money!! Figures...

Why is evolution so hard to believe by Christians?

Because christains are human beings...not animals.

Uh NO Garrett. Never have given FR one penny.

Apparently Camping is not the only one delusional since my post says nothing about giving money.

Why is God so hard to believe by non Christians?

Because, over thousands of years, over 3000 different gods (known gods, so probably more if you count unrecorded history) have been worshiped by mankind. And nobody, NOBODY, has ever provided one shred of evidence to prove the actual existence of any of them.

And nobody, NOBODY, has ever provided one shred of evidence to prove evolution ever happened.

You pick your belief system.

JOregon,

If you care to take the time, look up "Evidence of Common Decent" in Wikipedia. Espeically look at "Evidence From Artificial Selection."

No one who is serious about getting real information asks anyone to go to Wikipedia first off. Secondly, that "evidence" is only evidence as it pertains to a theory, not a scientific fact. It's an easy distinction to miss. However, no matter how much the scientific community would like everyone to believe it, The Big Bang THEORY and the THEORY of Evolution are both just that, theories, and the evidence proffered for both must be taken in the context of said theory.

Chris

I understand common descent. It is the very cornerstone of evolution.

Darwin saw similar characteristics in some creatures and theorized they must have come from a common ancestor.

The problem is there are creatures with the same characteristics that are not related.

I could go into the Duckbilled Platypus or many others but the camera eye is one of the most dramatic.

It is found in the Human, Octopus, and many others such as the Box Jellyfish.

There is no possibility that they evolved from a common ancestor. The eyes develop in a completely different manner.

The octopus eye forms from an epidermal placode through a series of successive infoldings, whereas the human eye forms from the neural plate and induces the overlying epidermis to form the lens (Harris 1997).

PDF

Compare the Octopus with the Human Eye. JPG

In other words the very cornerstone of evolution does not hold up.

Scientists believe in their belief system so much they had to invent a theory to explain this contradiction – Convergent Evolution.

It is the only way they can make it work because the evidence goes against the theory of common descent.

To add, has single handedly been the cause of decades of knowledge destroyed and repressed throughout history if it conflicted with its teachings.

"Organized Religion" is an oxymoron.

I haven't seen anything organized about it in history. It's branched off too many times to be called organized.

Be nice, people. Without religion how would I know who to kill?

GimDan, single handedly? Really? I can think of quit a few other crazy atheist that single handedly destroyed much more knowledge than any christian could have ever destroyed. Bottom line people throughout history with or without religion have destroyed plenty of knowledge.

Mr Pink, no atheist could ever hope to destroy the amount of information that the Catholic Church has.

Why do people always try to say Catholics are Christian... BIG difference....BIG... HUGE...

Laura-47something, how very unchristian.

I'm religious. So what? Even I think he's full of it. The bible (if you believe in it) says you won't know the day of the rapture, so why would this religious person think he does? Sorry but not all religious people believe in this fool, to think otherwise is a tad foolish in itself.

This man is nuts.. NO MAN knows the hour Not even Jesus.. But when it is time .. His Bride will be the first to know.. He will come like a theif in the night.. in the TWINKLING of an eye... to take His bride, His Beloved, His Blood bought church who has been waiting for His return to be with him forevermore... I look forward to His return and that moment..

Camping rejects and ecourages others to distrust "organized religion." Having no accountability frees him to say whatever he wants to. This man does not speak for Christ or His people.

Mr. Pink:

Care to give an example of these "crazed atheists" who destroyed all this knowledge? Or how the hypothetical existence of someone worse than the church would excuse the attrocities they commited?

What's more, I'm unaware of a single branch of Christianity that can't trace its roots back to Catholicism. And the name "Christian" really only means that you believe in Christ, and Catholicism certainly qualifies.

If the churches are such "knowledge destroyers" how do you account for most universities having their origins in faith like Harvard and Princeton? These comments are ignorant for people who are so "intellectual superior." NOT

Harvard was founded by Unitarians, Princeton by Presbyterians. They weren't founded by Catholics.

And besides, the Catholics accomplished most of their destruction centuries earlier with the Inquisition. The Dark Ages are almost entirely their fault, due to the Church's active destruction of much of the knowledge the ancient Greeks had discovered about mathematics and technology. And then when the Spanish and Portuguese began colonizing Central and South America they began active campaigns to destroy everything they could about the cultures of the native peoples, to the point that there are ruins from South American civilizations that we don't even know who built them or why, even their names have been forgotten.

"Maybe this had to happen for there to be a separation between those who have faith and those who don't," he said. "It's highly possible that our Lord is delaying his coming."

------------------------

So the thought had not occurred to you, I take it, that maybe this is the Lord (or whatever label you have for him) separating those who exercise the free will he gave them from the ones who will believe any stupid thing they hear from a priest or a pastor? Accepting nonsense in blind faith does not mean it is not still nonsense.

Harvard was founded by the Puritans (Congregationalists), before there were Unitarians.

The Dark Ages were ushered in by the fall of the Roman Empire to the Barbarians. What was left of Greek and Roman knowledge was preserved by the Catholic monks who copied and preserved secular as well as religious books by hand. I am not a fan of the Catholic Church, I abhor how they treated those they considered heretics (Inquisition), but give them credit where credit is due.

Much of the cultural destruction was as much from greed of the conquorers as from the missionaries.

laura proves the point. even believers in the bible hate to be lumped together with other bible-believers in different denominations. there is so much hatred among those folks!

Oh boy more rapture parties!

Mr. Camping's followers need to remember the immense wisdom of George W Bush who once said

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Oh boy more rapture parties!

Mr. Camping's followers need to remember the immense wisdom of George W Bush who once said

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Oh boy more rapture parties!

Mr. Camping's followers need to remember the immense wisdom of George W Bush who once said

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Funny!

Yep, all Protestant denominations, if you follow actual history and not the made of fictional histories touted by the Baptists, can trace their roots back to the Catholic church. Sorry, but they ARE Christians. No there is no difference, they are just better organized. Only the Orthodox church makes a halfway legitimate claim to predating the Catholic church and that's because their argument is based on the real and documented history of the Schizm.

yzf600r

If the churches are such "knowledge destroyers" how do you account for most universities having their origins in faith like Harvard and Princeton?

Universities founded by religious organizations perpetuated only "ACCEPTED" knowledge. Anything the church did not approve of (heretical) was not taught... at least not until universities became more secular, and people stopped being afraid to stand up to the church.

These comments are ignorant for people who are so "intellectual superior." NOT

Well, I must admit... I do feel a bit intellectually superior to people who make a statement, and then end it with the old "NOT" thing... kind of lame and immature.

Now then...
Here's an example of Church sanctioned destruction of knowledge.

Decree of Coptic Pope Theodosius, destruction of the Serapeum in 391

Paganism was made illegal by an edict of the Emperor Theodosius I in 391. The holdings of the Great Library (both at the Mouseion and at the Serapeum) were on the precincts of pagan temples. While this had previously lent them a measure of protection, in the days of the Christian Roman Empire, whatever protection this had previously afforded them had ceased.^[28] The temples of Alexandria were closed by Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria in AD 391. ^[29]

Socrates of Constantinople provides the following account of the destruction of the temples in Alexandria, in the fifth book of his Historia Ecclesiastica, written around 440:

"At the solicitation of Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, the emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt. And to begin with, he caused the Mithreum to be cleaned out, and exhibited to public view the tokens of its bloody mysteries. Then he destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rites of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum. ... Thus this disturbance having been terminated, the governor of Alexandria, and the commander-in-chief of the troops in Egypt, assisted Theophilus in demolishing the heathen temples.^[30]"

The Serapeum housed part of the Great Library, but it is not known how many, if any, books were contained in it at the time of destruction. Notably, the passage by Socrates makes no clear reference to a library or its contents, only to religious objects. An earlier text by the historian Ammianus Marcellinus indicates that, whatever books might earlier have been housed at the Serapeum, none was there in the last decade of the 4th century. The pagan author Eunapius of Sardis witnessed the demolition, and though he detested Christians, and was a scholar, his account of the Serapeum's destruction makes no mention of any library. When Orosius discusses the destruction of the Great Library at the time of Caesar in the sixth book of his History against the Pagans, he writes:

"So perished that marvelous monument of the literary activity of our ancestors, who had gathered together so many great works of brilliant geniuses. In regard to this, however true it may be that in some of the temples there remain up to the present time book chests, which we ourselves have seen, and that, as we are told, these were emptied by our own men in our own day when these temples were plundered—this statement is true enough—yet it seems fairer to suppose that other collections had later been formed to rival the ancient love of literature, and not that there had once been another library which had books separate from the four hundred thousand volumes mentioned, and for that reason had escaped destruction.^[31]"

Thus Orosius laments the pillaging of libraries within temples in 'his own time' by 'his own men' and compares it to the destruction of the Great Library destroyed at the time of Julius Caesar. He is certainly referring to the destruction of the Pagan temples of Alexandria as these were destroyed during his lifetime, and seeing as his book entitled "Against the Pagans" was a defense of Christianity, "our men" must surely refer to the Christians who were ordered to destroy the Pagan temples. Whilst he admits that the accusations of plunder are "true enough", he then suggests that the books in question were not copies of those that had been housed at the Great Library, but rather new books "to rival the ancient love of literature".

As for the Museum, Mostafa El-Abbadi writes in Life and Fate of the Ancient Library of Alexandria (1990):

"The Mouseion, [sic] being at the same time a 'shrine of the Muses', enjoyed a degree of sanctity as long as other pagan temples remained unmolested. Synesius of Cyrene, who studied under Hypatia at the end of the fourth century, saw the Mouseion and described the images of the philosophers in it. We have no later reference to its existence in the fifth century. As Theon, the distinguished mathematician and father of Hypatia, herself a renowned scholar, was the last recorded scholar-member (c. 380), it is likely that the Mouseion did not long survive the promulgation of Theodosius' decree in 391 to destroy all pagan temples in the city.^[32]"

John Julius Norwich, in his work Byzantium: The Early Centuries, places the destruction of the library's collection during the anti-Arian riots in Alexandria that transpired after the imperial decree of 391 (p. 314). No ancient sources confirm—or even suggest—such an event. Edward Gibbon claimed that the Library of Alexandria was destroyed by Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, who ordered the destruction of the Serapeum in 391.^[33]

yea, poor old guy...he just cant predict an apocalypse like he used to...

...based on his record - apparently he CAN.

heh, ya gotta love these bible whack jobs. for the comic relief they continually provide!

It's gotta be tough going in to work Monday morning... Hearing all the jokes... ;-)

A christian and his money are soon parted.

Why is this even news....

Because people are soooo stupid.

Apparently it doesn't take much to gast his flabber. Now if he would only learn to keep it shut.

I'm "flabbergasted" that anyone would continue to listen to this guy.

i'm not. its the "christian way" to follow this sort of biblical nonsense!

Phyllis~

For one who speaks so strongly against the "Christian way" or just religion in general, you sure don't know much about it.

Actually, hon, I do.

Cheers!

You know, Phyllis, most refried jesus wheezers automatically think non-believers know nothing about christianity when, in fact, most of us are ex-sunday school teachers and former alter-boys. When they realize we were once church-going folk, the fallback position is that we must not have read/understood the scriptures. When that fails and they come to understand that, just maybe, we know more than they think we do, they become downright nasty, don't they?

Once your eyes are opened, you can't close them again. Once the truth has been seen, it cannot be unseen.

Being a non-believer is rather liberating, don't you think, Phyllis?

What you are saying is you know about a religion, but you don't know about Christ.

There are various religions under the heading of Christianity. Obviously most are wrong, since only one can be right.

You missed because you believed religion was the faith. Religion is based on the faith, but is often astray from the faith.

Being a non-believer is rather liberating, don't you think, Phyllis?

Yeah, I also believe in this...you are free...to indulge in all the pleasures of this World and to do according to the delight of your flesh.

Your liberation is only when you are in this Earth. No soul ever born in this Earth is free of the laws of God. It will catch up with all sooner or later...if not to eternal life than definitely to eternal damnation.

Phyllis~

Then your blanket comments incorporating that all Christians follow this loon shows you are already wrong about one thing.

i'm not. its the "christian way" to follow this sort of biblical nonsense!

Of the Christians I know, some practice hard core, the others practice loosely, not one of them believes this man. You seem to think because someone chooses to believe in a God that they are incapable of thinking for themselves. Again wrong. Sorry hun.

I've known more religious people who are more tolerant of another persons belief then what you've shown with your intolerance towards others. You don't have to believe in a God, you are free to believe in what you want, but you are no different then those you claim to hate when you start mocking others simply because they don't believe as you do.

Cheers!

Incorporating is the wrong word, sorry. Insinuating. I would have corrected it earlier but didn't get around to it.

You just need to practice more.

Reaper: No you didn't!!!........LoL!!!

lol, his flight got delayed at DFW.

Ha...now that is funny! I tried super hard to delay my coming last night...still arrived early...

Dear Lord, try mental focus, deep tantric breathing, and firm manual pressure applied to the perineum if you feel you're about to lose it.

ha! Oh good times. Is there an app for that?

Reaper- Hilarious!!!!. If nothing else at least we're getting some good chuckles out of all this.

Why do people still listen to this guy? Idiots with no life perhaps? (AKA sheep!)

Reaper - think about Rosie O'Donnell and it will fix that problem

Hey, he said he wanted to delay it, not insure that he never had it again!

Case in point: This would be the morals of those WITHOUT the 10 commandments.

Laura,

These jokes didn't hurt anybody, nor affect anyone's life in even a slightly negative manner. What exactly are your problems with the morals of the above posters? Apparently, your god didn't create humor?

Try wearing that stick straight up and down. It isn't meant to go sideways.

You mean the Ten Commandments from Exodus 34? The second tablets Moses got and the only place in the bible that names them the Ten Commandments. Those? No morals there!

so sorry, He called me to say he would be late...i just forgot to pass on the message...my bad.

Need a partner?

Phil: have everyone send you $19.95 in a self addressed stamped envelop, and you can send them the secrets.

Yeah. Floods. Locusts. Leprocy. Having to listen to Britney Spears songs.

Ik734505, I'd say all churches have done the same. If people are stupid enough to give their money to a religion they deserve what they get.

Their kids on the other hand are not deserving of what they get. I feel sorry for kids born into any highly religious family.

agreed EngEsq

Only God knows the appointed time.

God is not named Harold. ;)

Correct, his real name is Ralph and he's temporarily renting a house in Boise. You can call him via Skype, but I think his land-line got disconnected - he was tired of getting jacked by Ma-Bell.

You should have faith in yourself............not any religion.

You said it, bs detector...not only does God only know the date but even the Son of God doesn't know...

Ralph be with you.

In Ralph we trust

Oh, NOW I get it! "Our Father, who art in heaven, HAROLD be thy name." Of course!! Where do I send my hard earned money?

...and also with you.

Well Ralph Damn, and I was all ready to Rapture....

faith in what? zombie jesus? uhhhh ok.

LOL, kalexington

how come people want to make fun of people who choose to have faith in God/Jesus? if we are wrong, then we are wrong, but if we are all suppose to respect each other and have morals, with or w/o God, then isn't also wrong to insult or make fun of those who truly believe and live their lives as well as they can? I do believe and I don't judge those who don't, we all have free will and I'm sorry for all those who have been persucuted by so called christians, or by anyone for that matter. As a christian if I make fun of someone or say something is wrong then I am the bad guy and am committing a hate crime..., but people can make fun of what I beleive and it's okay?

I do believe and I don't judge those who don't

you are the exception, not the rule... believers are largely hateful, judgmental folks. here's one example, of many, if you have any doubt: just ask a gay person what it's like living among american christians.

Sic 'em Phyllis!

And you know he's not the rule how Phyllis? Because of your interactions with what......maybe 500 in your entire life out of millions? Yeah. I'm glad you're the all knowing fount of knowledge on all things Christianity.

p-cat - everyone has to have a sense of humor about all this - unless you're muslim, they just aren't able. But most importantly, NEVER come to a blog site like the 'vine if your feelings are going to get hurt. Why would you do that to yourself?

Oh, my skin's plenty thick. But thanks for worrying about me, anyway, Cassandra!

By the way, wasn't Cassandra the girl in the Iliad who was cursed by the gods with the gift of prophesies that no one would believe? She predicted the destruction of Troy and couldn't make anyone believe in her, as I recall.

Do you have any prophesies you would like to share, Cassandra?

Oops! My mistake! You were aiming at phinneycat. Too many cats around the rocking chairs tonight, it seems!

What's simple is the childlike ignorance of those who think they have the answers--You are no different than this charlatan. It's that simple.

no kidding!

sarah -- grow up! it's cult mythology!

P.T. Barnum probably could've answered both of those questions for you.

To remind us of how easily people are led even in the 21st century?

Because long ago men who wanted to control other men realized if they concocted a religious construct (myth based on some facts here and there to gain credibility) that they could do so. The goal of providing a social construct of behavioral standards is a common theme among all religions and to a great extent they are a good thing - if only the so called believers followed them.

As far as prophecy it is the classic conversion by fear tool (like selling an insurance policy- so they always can have that come back of "well you never know about the hereafter, - better safe than sorry". After 2000 years of consistent prophecy errors there should be a universal education on historian fallacy, translation fallacy and audience relevance when reading hisotrical documents.

So many people read the Bible as if it is written to them when it was written to others thousands of years ago (other peoples mail). When misguided people (most so called christians) read it as if written to themselves in 21st century they are as misguided as those who are the last to get the message in the old game telephone you played in elementary school.

Mark Twain's Treatise on The Gods should be mandatory reading.

The new action-packed, won't-wanna-miss blockbuster: "Apocalypse Adjourned!", starting Happy Camper and Unhappy Arnold. Can't miss!

you're using the crap in a book full of made-up stories to denigrate his made-up story?

this crap is just getting funnier and funnier!

News to me I guess you have some more insider information no one knows about :P

is that the Jehovah's Witness or Morman cult? the 144,000 .... i can't remember.

I believe the JW....

Book of Revelation or the Apocalypse of St. John, chapter 7. There is still Time and Space. A Hint.

You see the rapture did happen it's just none of us were worthy....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA can't keep a straight face :)

here's another hint: it's a mythical cult book! chill out!!

Prove it Phyllis. That's what you atheists always spout. Prove it's a myth. Prove God doesn't exist. I'll wait....

And no fair just saying "Obama". Normally, I would allow that answer, but this is serious!

NoFactsJustRhetoric, the best part about this is that it is up to christians to supply proof of their nonexistent god. You are the ones making the claims, now belly up and show us what you have.

Got nothing? I thought so.

Fail.

So you can't prove it then?

Fail.

Let's see, you are making the irrational claim you believe in a mythical deity and you want me to prove that there is no proof?

Can I ask you if you slobber when you talk?

Put your money where your big wet mouth is and produce the evidence, little man, or shut up.

Not what I asked. I asked for YOUR proof that God doesn't exist. You have none, yet ridicule people via the same argument.

Fail.

It is basic logic that a person who asserts the existance of something has the burden of proof. It is illogical to place the burden of proving that something does NOT exist on the person who questions your assertion. You claim God exists. No one has any need to disprove it. You have the burden of proof. Try this: I assert the Easter Bunny exists. Prove me wrong. If you cannot, it must exist. See how silly that is?

The essential problem here is that faith belies logic. Christ himself said as much, so you should know better than to get into arguments like this. Believe whatever you like. But don't get into arguments requiring logical proof. You will lose every time.

Well...not that I'm a holy roller by any means but the supposed Turin shroud is pretty cool stuff. It doesn't prove God actually exists but it's the closest thing Christians have to proving that Christ did indeed rise from the dead. I know there is a lot of speculation surrounding the age and the validity of the shroud but no one can deny the odd irre-producible "scorch marks" in the image. I know it’s not enough to convince non-believers but I found that it pushes on the edge of proof that Jesus walked the Earth and rose from the dead... and in all honesty if you've actually seen it on display it will make you think twice about the truth of the resurrection of Christ. It's actually kind of creepy....

Not what I asked. I asked for YOUR proof that God doesn't exist.

Hi Dummy. You'll note something, please. I never said "god doesn't exist". I said: there is absoluetly ZERO PROOF that a god exists. Zero Evidence. I don't need to PROVE that, because that is a factual statement. Nobody has ever provided Any Evidence to show that a god exists. Ever.

So...since you are making that claim that a god does exist, then I am simply asking you to prove your position.

I have only said -- i have no reason to believe a god exists because nobdoy has ever been able to provide evidence to the contrary.

So, FactsNotRhetoric --- live your name. Show us the facts, not your rhetoric. Give us the proof that your god exists, or simply remain a coward and a liar.

Cheers!!

There is ZERO proof of evolution - do you believe in it?

There is ZERO proof of the big bang - do you believe in it?

There is ZERO proof of any of the dating systems beyond 5,000 years - do you believe in them?

JOregon,

And, there is ZERO between your ears...

LOL so you can't prove God doesn't exist, but insist that I provide proof he does.

Then someone tells you there is NO PROOF of half the things you hold true (Protip: That's why they're called theories), but insist they are more real then God.

Yeah, that doesn't sound crazy at all.......

idiot... it`s impossible to "prove" that something didn`t happen, it`s impossible to "prove" a negative.

<facepalm> ok so prove the Big Bang THEORY, or the THEORY of Evolution......

I'll wait.....

PS - Starting you post off by name calling really shows your intelligence level is just south of your shoe size.

RhetoricNotFacts,

There, fixed your screen name. Oh, and by the way, there's proof for all three things JO stated there was none. You're on a computer, try using it.

No Garrett there is no proof.

There is evidence that we can build theories on, but ZERO proof.

I realize of course this gives you the opportunity to say something very intelligent once again such as

And, there is ZERO between your ears...

You are so cleaver, your Mommy must be proud of you.

The fact that you remain willfully ignorant doesn't discredit the fact of evolution, it merely means you are ignorant.

ig·no·rant

–adjective

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.

I am neither lacking knowledge nor information of the subject. I am very aware.

You on the other hand are ignorant because it is not a fact it is a belief system based on theories.

When facts arise that contradicts evolution the belief system is so strong that scientists look at the new facts and try to figure out how they can make it fit into their belief system.

The steps of the scientific method are to:

1. Ask a Question
2. Do Background Research
3. Construct a Hypothesis
4. Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
5. Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
6. Communicate Your Results

Instead of being entirely open to what the evidence presents they draw a conclusion before they even ask a question.

The assumption is evolution is fact, just not proven. Therefore any evidence must support evolution.

Evolution is a belief system, supported by theories, derived from evidence.

You are proof evolution is a belief system because you believe it is fact. It has no proof.

JOregon,

I think understand your "zero" comment.

I.E. There's zero proof of God exists the way the man portrays Him - only faith says He exists.