Victims that he helped to murder? So, just because he's old and moved to America, we let him slide? Tell that one to Manson's defense attorneys. I'm sure that will when him sympathy votes and a quick parole!

The choices you make in this life will eventually catch up to you.

The big fish all got away, so they fry the minnows.

How many helpless old men and women did he watch die? He needs to answer for it, and when his time comes will answer to the highest law.

Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning, or making light of the Holocaust. But at what point has this been anything but a witch hunt? He's been on trial in how many courts, and every one of them was unable to definitively prove that he was who they were accusing him of being. So should they then go after the cooks who worked at this facility? After all, they knew what was going on? Should they go after every German soldier that fired a shot in the war?

They should go after the guilty. And they have.

As the grandson of German immigrants who fled Germany to get away from the Nazis and whose great grandparents were killed by them - anyone tied to these monsters should be tried and sub-sequentially dealt with.

you cannot possibly be that naive. he wasnt always a helpless old man. in his younger days he was obviously an accomplice to several murders. you know, back in the day when he could walk and kill!

The guy was a lowly guard, what was he supposed to tell the higher ups?? Sorry guys I don't want any part of this?? I'm sure hitler and mengala would of said oh ok dude you can sit this one out!! No if he didn't do what they wanted they would of thrown him in the furnace too!! I don't understand how people think this guy wanted to do this and don't understand he was just following orders.

Those are serious crimes he is accused of and I feel that they should have provided more evidence. If the FBI even questioned the validity of the evidence it would leave one to question it as well.

Ally you sound as though this is vengeance. It matters not to you if they prove he is guilty, he is just guilty because he has been accused.

Demjanjuk, who emigrated to the United States in the early 1950s, became a naturalized citizen in 1958 and worked as an engine mechanic in Ohio, had been exonerated in a separate Holocaust trial two decades ago in Israel. In that trial he was initially sentenced to death for being the notorious "Ivan the Terrible'' camp guard at Treblinka in Poland, but the ruling was overturned by Israel's supreme court after new evidence exonerated him.

In a 1985 report, the FBI's Cleveland, Ohio, field office concluded that: "Justice is ill-served in the prosecution of an American citizen on evidence which is not only normally inadmissible in a court of law, but based on evidence and allegations quite likely fabricated by the KGB."

The revelation has led to new court action in the U.S., with a District Court judge in Cleveland on Tuesday agreeing to appoint a public defender to represent Demjanjuk there, raising the prospect of renewing the decades-old case.

Sounds like reasonable doubt to me.

Sorry Rick, but you're wrong. Vengeance? No. Justice? Absolutely.

If everyone stood up and refused to commit atrocities that they were ordered to do, then mabe the atrocities would not be done. Stand your ground. Be willing to die for what is clearly right. A life ending in honor is better than a life of cowering in shame.

Is he Ivan The Terrible? If so, he will be judged accordingly when he meets his maker.

Fact is, there were so many victims, way too many to count and not just the Jews in camps, but the victims of the Soviet Union. Russian soldiers march all over to and through places like Estonia and other small Baltic states. When the Germans arrived days before hand, they were considered saviors.

If a murderer had a knife to your throat readying to kill and rob you and out of the blue, a gang of mafia hit men came to your rescue; you'd be some-what grateful to the mob. Not the greatest analogy, but a small piece of history.

Which is it 27,900 or 28,060? The article talks about both numbers. Anyway this guy is a show and tell for the Germans. It is a life sentence most likely and he will be in a hospital type environment within a "prison environment". Moving on, next show.

That's true, Doc. But then if everybody did that, there could be no HOlocaust(s), either. If 6 million people behind barbed wire camps all stood together, no way could a few thousand guards have killed them all. The problem is that nobody wants to be the one sacrified - not the lowly soldiers carrying out orders and not the ones being persecuted.

With evidence from the KGB I don't think he watched anyone die. The trial is a farce in front of a kangaroo court.

There is reasonable doubt that this is even the right man at all.

Nonetheless, the courts press on because they are more concerned with getting their conviction than getting the RIGHT man.

It's just the opposite of the O.J. Simpson trial, where they were more concerned with political correctness and avoiding the prosecution of a famous black man than serving justice.

Yes, he may have been a prisoner of war (his account), but, according to the evidence, he VOLUNTEERED to be a guard at the death camp. It is true that, as a prisoner of war in Germany, he risked being shot. So, the argument is that to save his own skin he volunteers to shepherd thousands of helpless, innocent,civilian, old men and women, children? Let him and his like rot.

It is easy to look at an elderly man who faces jail time and have some sort of compassion for the fate that awaits him. That is what makes us all human.

HOWEVER, we must all remember that the nazi's murdered the elderly, just like him, children which includes infants, mentally and physically challenged, and all those countless others because they were simply Jewish or otherwise deemed inferior by a group of megalomaniacs.

This is actually an ironic symbol for him to remember what it must have felt like to be helpless just as those he murdered did. One of the biggest differences is that he was able to have a trial and defend himself while those murdered in the Holocaust did not.

This is the enduring legacy of the Holocaust, lest we forget that time when humanity turned it's face away from the genocide of our fellow human beings. NEVER AGAIN!!!!

give it a rest....60 years ago, the guy, IF anything was some poor bastard at the lowest rungs of the totem pole.

it's time to move on and let this chapter finally be complete.

This poor old man murdered NOONE! THIS is a travesty of justice! He was FOUND INNOCENT in a courtroom in ISRAEL by JEWS; many of whom were concentration camp survivors themselves!

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! - Another ATROCITY commited by Germany!

@let-me-just- say-1-thing,

You do realize that genocide is occurring in Africa as I type this right? Ever heard of Rwanda or Somalia? I am thinking not. Yes the Holocaust is terrible, but so are the tragedies that occur still to this day.

Rob in Warwick NY

give it a rest....60 years ago, the guy, IF anything was some poor bastard at the lowest rungs of the totem pole.

it's time to move on and let this chapter finally be complete.

Easy to say when none of your family was affected by Hitler and his regime.

I was and guess what - I say hunt every last one of them down in their wheelchairs and deal with them.

Pffft... "its time to move on". You are ridiculous.

@Doc: People who refuse to committ such crimes and those who will not do lowly jobs in regimes when demanded can be found in the the thousands in mass graves. If an Isaraeli court overturned - there can be nothing more definitive. The doubt here is huge. This does not look like justice.

brian64The guy was a lowly guard, what was he supposed to tell the higher ups?? Sorry guys I don't want any part of this??

He should have fled then. Saying he was forced to be there and participate in that movement is garbage.

My grandparents did it. Came over on a friggin small boat with a handful of other people who also wanted nothing to do with it or to escape with their lives.

Hunter Hutchins:... People like him were ignored after the war for a reason...

What would that reason be? Did he help Allied troops win the war? I guess he was a Nuclear scientist or he testified against another bigger fish we needed. The idea an Ukrainian working for Germans at the time a clear evidence. There was no EU at the time.

stupid1, of course I know about the genocides that have occured in other parts of the world!!! they are no less horrific than the Holocaust. Even today they are committing mass rapes in the Democratic Rebuplic of Congo. 1,152 rapes per day or 48 per hour.

The question is have we learned from the Holocaust to intervene at the onset of such brutalities in order to squelch these atrocities? That is the life blood of the message, NEVER FORGET. Have we already?

Daniel:

Really? Are you that ill-informed? That careless with the "Hitler" card? It is my firm belief that ANYONE who compares a little old white guy carrying a "Taxed Enough Already" sign (or a liberal black President, for that matter), to a mass-murdering psychopath who almost wiped European Jewry off the planet, shows a complete inability to think critically, and is instead just relying on sheer emotion (hatred). You add nothing to the discussion. Come back when your head clears up.

My grandparents did it. Came over on a friggin small boat

How small?

It takes courage to stand up... and Not everyone could afford to get out who wanted to leave. But to participate, that's a choice.... My Grandfather was a war orphan. We think he was jewish, but are not sure.

It's a pity that this article did not explain what the KGB would have to gain by faking a German ID on this guy...

Or did I miss something? *goes to get more coffee*

This holocaust bit is getting as bad as the slave wagon gig. It's been over for many years now but everybody's still looking for a hand out from it. If Israel didn't find him guilty then that says a lot.

"Fact is, the Germans are preparing a verdict based upon U.S. government fraud which, if necessary, will not survive German or U.S. judicial review,"

This has nothing to do with a U.S. judicial review. The U.S. court system has already deemed there was sufficient evidence to send him packing to Germany where he was tried and found guilty.

nothing the Munich court can do will atone for the suffering Germany has perpetrated upon him

And nothing the Munich court can do will atone for the suffering he has perpetuated upon 27,900 Jews.

My great gradfather was exterminated by the Nazi's and I apologize for the fact I cannot look at the country of Germany or its citizens without a jaundiced eye but when a high court of Israel finds him not guilty......................something or someone stinks and/or is making a grandstand play.

I just want it to end.

Let him die in prison, where he belongs. Fine with me.

I cannot believe that in 2011 there are so many defenders of this man on here. He has been found guilty in a court of law. That's enough for me.

The fact that there are Nazi sympathizers on here makes me sick. I guess none of them lost family in the Holocaust.

Keep moving rightward, America. You think your brand of right-wing politics is different. It's not. It starts small, with talk like I'm reading on here, and read here nearly every day. Then weak, vulnerable minds fall for it, one by one.

Except they never started a war in Palestine. Start thinning their heard because they chose to defend themselves from violent neighbors? Sounds like a pretty weak comparison to the deliberate genocide of 6 million people.

The KGB manufactured evidence to make a captured Russian soldier appear to be a German Nazi camp guard, why ?

That's where this story ends, he never gave a reason.

Occam's razor, "the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one."

An elaborate set-up by his own countrymen or he was a Nazi guard ?

A buck private, guard at a prison camp, convicted of war crimes; Weirner Van Braun and his entire staff, killed over 20 thousand with their rockets, became Americas leader in the race for space, paid millions, given American citizenship; welcome to the real world of politics !

Note that Israel's court exonerated Demjanjuk. So you can't say this is retribution by them. Israel's treatment of this accused prison guard, as well as the Palestinians (since TommyBoy raised this canard), is above reproach.

The trial is a farce and very German.

What's sad is the fact that before the Jews were persecuted, they and everyone else just stood by while Hitler was rounding up and imprisoning gay men, (see history of the Pink Triangle), mentally challenged, and other religions in order to purify the Aryan race. Hitler also had the backing of the Catholic Church until they discovered how many Jewish people were being killed.

Even after the liberation of Germany, the gays were re-imprisoned. So watch out when it comes to persecuting people who live in a way that you don't agree with, history has a tendency to repeat itself.

The Israeli's determined that he was not "Ivan the Terrible" from Treblinka, but that is not what the Germans found him guilty of. The Germans found him guilty of being a guard at Sobibor and participating in the extermination of thousand of people. Please do not use the Israeli acquittal with the facts surrounding this trial.

It has been shown that Demjanjuk falsified claims on his entry visa and subsequent citizenship application. That is one of the reasons why he was sent to Germany to stand trial. Demjanjuk admits to being a volunteer guard at Sobibor, he just denies that he was involved in any of the killing. I do not know how anyone with an ounce of common sense can believe that fiction. He deserves to spend what is left of his life in prison. I only wish that they had caught this SoB sooner. Demjanjuk should never have been allowed into the US and certainly should not have spent the last 65+ years free and enjoying the good life in the US after what he did. The five year sentence seems very light in relation to what he was convicted of. However, with his current state of health, the five years will probably end up being a life sentence anyway.

Joe: Actually, the article said he was convicted in Israel, but the Israel Supreme Court threw out the verdict based on new evidence. That being said, it is hard to believe that any "evidence" presented amount to "beyond a reasonable doubt" as a matter of law. Bottom line is it seems to be a waste of time and money to pursue this. Since he was just a lowly guard and the story doesn't indicate that he had any direct involvement in the killings, if he was guilty then everyone who served in the German military under Hitler are at least as culpable. Did they try all of those people too? Obviously not.

"Defense attorney Ulrich Busch told the Munich court on Wednesday that even if Demjanjuk did become a prison guard, he did so only because as a prisoner of war he would have either been shot by the Nazis or died of starvation."

This tells me all I need to know that this guy did what he is accused of doing, and EVEN if he was "forced" to do it to save his own skin, he made a choice that day - kill thousands to save himself.

For that, he deserves justice served on this planet...because I do not have faith that he'll meet a "higher power" after death for his "real punishment". I just think its a farce that the "world" has waited this long to do much of anything about the entire atrocities that occured there.

And frankly, the US govt has little room to speak - since we opened our doors to many people we KNEW were involved with this war, on the german side. We welcomed in with open arms many of the evil scientists working for Hitler, because we thought their knowledge of horrific ways to harm other humans was far more valuable than serving justice for those who died because of the things these very scientists did.

And ultimately, we need to stop thumping our chest and pretending like the US, or any other nation, got involved because we cared about the people dying...more than we cared about the spread of Nazi socialism, or even more so...the spread of Russian communism, after they became the inital "hero's".

Should the whole world be put on trial because we sat idly by and didnt care about those being killed until suddenly we saw communism catching like wildfire? We cared more about spreading capitalism than saving lives, and that is the cold hard truth.

I hate people who say that crap about the Catholic Church. It's such rubbish.

Hitler no more had the backing of the Catholic Church than he did of the USA.

There's a difference between complacency and "backing".

The US didn't do anything about Nazi Germany until it was attacked by Japan and it's debatable that it would have ever done something. And it knew of the Jewish cleansing long before it went to war.

Like most everything in history, you're either the aggressor or the defender. If you're neither of those, you seldom get involved.

I swear, the Catholic Church can't do anything (action or inaction) without someone bitching. Sort of like US presidents.

It seems like people want their "pound of flesh" no matter if it comes from a guilty or innocent person! What happened in WWII was atrocious, but persecuting an innocent man is no better. There were an estimated 12 million people killed by the Nazis, half of those people were Jewish; the rest were people suspected of not being loyal and/or helping Jews.

Let's face it the Nazi regime was bad news to everyone who wasn't a Nazi. It is my belief any Nazi who escaped justice here will be made to account for their actions by a higher power. I think a better use of resources would be to keep an eye on the modern day Nazis and other hate groups.

Psychological experiments have repeatedly shown in the last 70 year that "I was following orders" has a great deal of merit as a defense. Normal people are capable of extreme cruelty when asked to do so by an authority figure. You have absolutely no idea what you can convince yourself into doing when told to do so by an authority figure.

I think it is disgusting for some people to sit here on their high horse and spout holier than thou nonsense about "dying for what is right" when they have never faced anything remotely similar. The truth is, you have absolutely no idea what you would do in a similar scenario because you have and orobably will never face anything like it!

For those who say the Catholic church backed Hitler; i suggest you read history; the Jesuit order tried to kill him on three different occasions, last one almost was a success; the Vatican set up a secret program to smuggle Jews out of Italy and Germany; the Polish church hid thousands and smuggled many more to the Ukraine where the orthodox church hid them, until the Russian army invaded the Ukraine, even though the Ukraine army fought the Russians for Germany, there were many Jews in the Ukraine army. did some of the Catholics go along with Hitler, yes, just as some Protestants;, it was a terrible time in world history !

Having had two known relatives murdered, (two family legend)I cannot forget. Please remember there were 11 million that perished in these camps. By demographics Poland had 5.9 million die - 3 million Jews and 2.9 million Catholic/Christians that tried to hide the Jews, along with the teachers, priests and other professionals.

And yes why are we not equally outraged by the genocide in the African countries adn the recent news off 1100 women a day raped. Are we not then like the Germans that turned their heads away?

Get outraged!!!!

Observer_1 @ 1.47

"The US didn't do anything about Nazi Germany until it was attacked by Japan and it's debatable that it would have ever done something'

You might want to read up on the Lend-Lease program which began in MARCH of 1941, 9 months before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

I lived in Germany in my teens. If in conversation WWII was brought up every male we were introduced to said they fought at the Western Front, which was the Soviet Union. John Demjanjuk was identified by a woman, who was suppost to have been executed along with several of her family members. She said they stood over their own graves so that when they were shot they would fall into the grave. No mess No must. Osama bin Laden kill 3,00 of our people, yet he, himself, wasn't even there. He just gave the orders. John Demjanjuk gave the orders to kill over 27,000 people. Demjanjuk was identified by numerous people as the one who gave the orders to kill so tell me what is the difference between Osama and John Demjanjuk?

Dear hypo

I said Catholic/Christians not the church. These were the people that were murdered. I have put my fingers in the bullet holes of the execution walls in Warsaw, walked the streets of the Ghetto. Yes the church may have been involved, they were the walls they used to execute

If he is guilty, and he continues to lie about it-he obviously has not repented and should be punished. However, it does sound as though there is reasonable doubt.

At 91, one way or ther other, he will soon receive justice.

blondeness032,
You forget, he was convicted twice. Once in Isreal (overturned, because it was thought that he was "Ivan the Terrible") there was no doubt that he was a guard in some capacity. There was a good chance that Isreal would have brought additional information to light at some point.

The second was for the crimes that were verified by the US and Germany. Unfortunately, most of the witnesses have died since the liberation.

Still, the fact that he falsefied documentation regarding his entry into the US is an additional factor, to a lesser degree. However, it plays a part in validating his background. IF in fact he was "conscripted" he should have identified himself to the American forces in Germany at that time and admitted his participation, even if he acted as a guard. If he hadn't entered the US illegally, I would be willing to give him some benifit of doubt.

The hilarious part is that he has been freed by the court pending appeal. He's not even in jail right now.

What a colossal waste of time and money.

Dateline: 2041:

"The International Court at the Haig is due to commence the trial of Osama Bin Laden after he was finally caught last year. The 94 year old Bin Laden appeared frail. Newsvine subscribers are up in arms that, after all these years, we just cant let an old man live out the rest of his days in peace."

Dateline: 2042:

"The International court at the Haig convicted Osama Bin Laden after a lengthy trial. He was sentenced to 5 years in jail and then immediately released for humanitarian reasons."

@Hartvig Lein

It's debatable because the US was in the Great Depression. It could've been for the money.

Very similar to how the US acted before its entrance into WWI.

Why not give the aid to Germany you may ask? Variety of factors: Britain was a close ally, its more profitable to do business with the side that needs it the most, etc.

The Lend-Lease program did not bring the US into a formal state of war. It may never have. Very similar to how the Soviet Union and the US never formally entered a war with each other, even though they have both been entangled in military operations directly against one another (example: aerial warfare between US and Soviet Union fighter pilots in the Korean Conflict).

Never underestimate a country's willingness to make some money off of a war, irregardless of what is "right or wrong".

Leave this old man alone

So let me get this straight.....because this old, manipulative, lying murderer is so old, we should just let him go? He should be hung, like the other Nazi war criminals. Just because he was better at evading capture then a lot of others doesn't mean he should get off lighter then everyone else. He had a part in SO many deaths, and you all want to let him go because he looks like your grandpa. As a Jew, I say let him hang.

Oh and timetravlr........isn't there a cross you should be burning somewhere? Masking your hatred for the Jews in some quasi-intellectual history lesson is fooling no one. "Have you ever wondered if there was a reason someone killed 6 million people?". No, and looking for a "reason" is just you looking for justification.

They haven't proved anything really. All they have is that he was one of the lowest gaurds in the camp - under the SS. He did nothing more than save his own ass. I doubt since he wasn't high up on the power chain he ordered any deaths. This is a waste, old news - move on.

Ugh, I'm attempting to convey relatively substantial and informative insights, and yet my posts fall directly under people's like Timetravler100.

I guess that makes me an idiot for even being in the same thread as someone like that.

I'm out of this conversation. *shudders*

timetraveler

Please explain the other 5.9 million people that died, Gypsies, intellectuals, Polish, Dutch, Czechs etc.

And the source for your data was? Aryan National Daily?

So let me get this straight.....because this old, manipulative, lying murderer is so old, we should just let him go?

No. He should be let go because no one can prove with any certainty that he is a manipulative, lying murderer.

For all of you condeming this guy, please read the entire article and situation before you do so. First, he is not a German Nazi, he was Ukranian and drafted into the Soviet Army and captured by the Germans. While he did volunteer to be the guard to save himself, all of you on here saying he should have died instead have never been faced with a life or death decision of their own. It's nice to say, if I was him I would have chosen death for myself over becoming a guard for the Germans. But until you are actually facing the prospect of death, you cannot say for sure that you would sacrafice yourself to save others, especially in that circumstance where even if you did sacrafice yourself, the mass murders would still have taken place.

To sit here 70 years later and criticize this man for volunteering to become a prison guard for the Nazis when faced with the prospect of death is absurd. Is what happened horrible? Yes. But, you cannot know the exact circumstances that led him to this decision. It is very possible, that he volunteered to be a guard for the Germans prior to him knowing that he would be an accomplice to genocide. While the Nazi's did begin to commit atrocities in the 1930's as the party gained power, it wasn't until 1942-1943 they started on the program of mass murder in the concentration camps. This guy was captured in 1941. For all we know, the Nazi's told him he would be guarding other POW's.

They continue to molest this helpless old man, in a vain attempt to unkill the victims of WWII. People like him were ignored after the war for a reason.

I completely agree with you Hunter. This is a travesty of justice.

This constant witchhunt has made me turn a blind eye to the plight of the Jews. I felt the same way about the Republicans who kept going after President Clinton and renounced my affiliation to that party.

In OUR country, we believe in innocent until proven guilty WHICH IS NOT THE STANDARD IN EUROPE. There is no way in hell that they could prove anything at this late stage.

Eyewitness testimony is the least satisfactory evidence in the world. HARDLY ANYONE is accurate and the FBI has proven that fact on numerous occasions.

I think the Jewish people need to move forward and get over it at this point. Hitler was wrong but he's dead. No one is exterminating Jews anymore. It's time to move forward.

Trust me.....if the Mossad has taken this much time and energy to find this man, he's the real deal, and he IS on their list.

To sit here 70 years later and criticize this man for volunteering to become a prison guard for the Nazis when faced with the prospect of death is absurd. Is what happened horrible? Yes. But, you cannot know the exact circumstances that led him to this decision. It is very possible, that he volunteered to be a guard for the Germans prior to him knowing that he would be an accomplice to genocide. While the Nazi's did begin to commit atrocities in the 1930's as the party gained power, it wasn't until 1942-1943 they started on the program of mass murder in the concentration camps. This guy was captured in 1941. For all we know, the Nazi's told him he would be guarding other POW's.

I completely agree with you too.

AT THIS POINT, I NO LONGER CARE THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY THE NAZIS.

They are on a witchhunt that needs to stop because it is a travesty of justice at this point.

Trust me.....if the Mossad has taken this much time and energy to find this man, he's the real deal, and he IS on their list.

Hogwash. This Mossad person or entity is just as bad as Hitler.

And I don't trust you.

@say-something,

Okay, I took your quote as written not the meaning behind it. The problem is we are not the worlds police. It is a terrible atrocity that is happening but we can't just go in and shoot the place up. I am speaking as the country as a whole not on a human level.

America is always the bad guy, no matter what we do or who we help, we are enemy #1. That is why we have the UN and NATO and other such organizations. Look at all the people that say we are in a third war with Libya. We are just doing are NATO duties.

Have you seen the documentary on PBS about Rwanda? It is very interesting and I feel terrible for the Canadian General that had to "lead" during that time.

.....you don't even know what the Mossad is, and you're willing to lump them in with Hitler? LOL. How well informed you are to make that decision then Karen! Oh, and the fact that you felt the need to scream in your post that you don't care that 6 million people were killed based on race lets me know just what a bigoted asshat you are.

Karen the travesty of justice is that 11 million people were murdered and their murderers ran to other countries to hide for decades without any justice served. Perhaps eye witness accounts are unreliable, good thing they have a picture of him.

Another travesty is that you don't seem to care that 11million people were murdered in the first place. By the way, what jewish witch-hunt do you speak of? This guy is being tried in GERMANY for his crimes, not in Israel....do some fact checking and show a bit of human decency and compassion.

timetraveler.

Well put with your post 1.60. So True.

Smile.

Salam.

What interesting responses n here !

1. Karen (1.71— of course you dont care that Jews are killed; yet, you, and those like you, will be the first ones to say that Israel is not in jeopardy in this day and age. In fact, it is ppl like you who exemplify why Jews are still in danger and must zealously guard themselves.

2. Jandrel (1.66):

SO, so true - but no one will respond to that comment because it detracts from their arguments re how Jews deserved what they got in Germany.

3. Timetravelor (1.60):

Yours is, perhaps the most disgusting.

First - Your "history" i.e., the justification of mass murder of Jews in Germany,

does not address WHY this was but ONE in several mass murders and forced removal of Jews throughout history. You will be the FIRST one to say that Jews left the Middle east and dont have any more claim to the land- of cours,e you will ignore that they were expelled from Israel in 70AD (+-); then, expelled in the 13th century from Spain and Portugal, only to move to WESTERN Europe where, through the Renaissance, they were welcomed until they were again expelled, only to go to EASTERN Europe where they suffered progroms and ultimately the Holocaust. Where ALL those "host" nations ALSO justified by your logic ?

BUT - here is the worst part:

Your quote: "Over time however, wealthy, powerful Jews worked their way into German government, courts, the news media, entertainment and banking" says a lot....for isnt that what the Jews have accomplished in the U.S. ? Wouldnt THAT, by YOUR logic be sufficient justification for the mass murder of Jews in the U.S. in year 2011 ?

You further quote: "Jewish groups like the ADL ( Anti Defamation League) strongly and publicly oppose all forms of racism and segregation, yet in Israel, they enforce rules that refuse to recognize marriage between a Jew and a "gentile" (non-Jew)."

You seem to have a problem with that, but no problem with the SAME law being in force in ALL Islamic countries. You also probably have a problem with Israel calling itself a "Jewish" state, but N problem with the 17 "Islamic" States.

What you dont understand re "intermarriage" is that THAT is accomplishing what Rome, Spain, Russia all could NOT do - the destruction of the Jewish people as a "people" - but, of course, you have no problem with that.

Yes, you are an intellectual anti-semite...but an anti-semite nonetheless. (and, yes, I know it is a misnomer - it's actually NOT anti Semite, but, rather, Anti "Jew".

Trust me.....if the Mossad has taken this much time and energy to find this man, he's the real deal, and he IS on their list.

Gharms,

Of course he's on their list, but that doesn't make Demjanjuk guilty. No one will ever know if he's guilty.

But when you consider the time that was spent to find and try this man (off and on for 30 years), just to find him guilty and set him free, it hardly seems like it was worth the time, the money, the vitriol, etc.

When the Israeli court determined that he was not Ivan the Terrible, this should have died. But the Nazi hunters were bound and determined to find him guilty of something. Anything.

So we are where we're at today. An old man serving no time for crimes he may or may not have committed.

This is the definition of unsatisfying and anti-climactic regardless of which side of the argument you're on.

What you dont understand re "intermarriage" is that THAT is accomplishing what Rome, Spain, Russia all could NOT do - the destruction of the Jewish people as a "people" - but, of course, you have no problem with that.

Are you suggesting that Israeli citizens who are not of 100% jewish blood are somehow lesser Israelis? Would it really destroy the jewish people?

If the Israeli government strives for purity of blood among it's citizens, that's a bit frightening. Maybe one day they'll call themselves the "master race" instead of the "chosen people".

TO JEFF-573598: So you're saying that one type of bias justifies the other? I'm sorry, but it's NOT okay to outlaw Jews from marrying gentiles, PERIOD!!! And yes, I dont' think the Muslims should force "same-race" marriage either!! Bias is bias.

They have eye witness testimony, and pictures of him. I'm not sure what else you would need to prove that someone was a Nazi war criminal. The excuse of "I was just following orders" has never been an excuse. You're telling me this man worked several years in a concentration camp, and had no idea what was going on? That would be like being Jeff Dahmer's cook, and trying to say you didn't know that foot you cooked was human.

YOU ARE BLAMING DEMJANJUK FOR HITLER'S CRIMES. Stop it! That is not fair by any stretch of the imagination.

NONE of you understand what was going on. Someone put it better than I. Demjanjuk wanted to live so he did what he had to do. YOU ALL WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. I know I would have. I like living.

The good news is that the judge is releasing Demjanjuk and he will not be in jail. He is already out on appeal. My gut tells me that the German judge does not agree with the verdict. And nothing you Americans can tell this judge will change his mind. Thank goodness. You are vultures too, just like Hitler.

Regarding this comment -

Karen (1.71— of course you dont care that Jews are killed; yet, you, and those like you, will be the first ones to say that Israel is not in jeopardy in this day and age. In fact, it is ppl like you who exemplify why Jews are still in danger and must zealously guard themselves.

EXCUSE ME BUT I NEVER SAID THAT I DON'T CARE THE WAY YOU POSITION IT.

I am super happy that WE AMERICANS STOPPED HITLER IN HIS TRACKS. I am super happy that my JEWISH friends' parents received REPARATIONS until the day they died.

Obviously, I cared that Jewish people were killed for no good reason.

HOWEVER, the Jewish people need to STOP THE WITCHHUNT. THEIR WITCHHUNT MADE ME NOT CARE ANYMORE. If they stop the witchhunt, we can all move forward.

Big difference. Stop mischaracterizing my posts.

They have eye witness testimony, and pictures of him.

Eye witness testimony IS UNRELIABLE. I want it banned from the courtroom.

Pictures? He's 91 years old. How in the world can they tell that a picture of a 20 something is the same person? NO FREAKING WAY do I believe it.

He's out and he's not going to jail because the judge knows this is a travesty of justice too. Judges have that authority.

Gharms,

With all of that evidence, why did it take them 30 years to convict him?

Also, they have A picture of (maybe) him from 70 years ago, and in that picture he's not killing anybody.

You can assume he knew whatever you want, but without evidence it's nothing. I'm not willing to pass judgment on a man's life or call him a mass murderer on possible circumstantial evidence.

Mmm Mmm Beer- Screw Deceney and Compassion read post 1.60. beside's he was trying to save his own life , I don't care who you are your going to do what you got to do to stay alive . This happened over 70 years ago , it happened before most of us where alive . Let the old man alone , if he did it , God will judge him . How is it after all of these trials , now they find him guilty and they did'nt before using the same evidence. WTF.

To bad such fervor for justice wasn't around in regard to Werner Van Braun, who ended up a hero of the US space program and a US citizen even though he was a card carrying member of the SS and was directly responsible for mistreatment and murder of Jews at Peenemunde while he developed rockets that rained down on England killing civilians there.

Karen do NOT put me in the same category as Demjanjuk. I would not take a job where I was directly or indirectly responsible for killing another human beings. I answer to a higher calling who said "Thy shall not kill." As I stated in another post, l lived in Germany in my teens. We visited some of the camps and it was a very solmen experience. Each German man we interviewed vowed they didn't know what was happening in the camps and that they personally fought at the WESTERN FRONT. No one confessed to fighting in Germany against the Americans and no one had any idea what was going on in the camps with all the billowing smoke and people disappearing. Again, I would take a bullet, rather than kill innocence people. Osama didn't personally kill anyone, he was just the "guard" making sure everything was done right. Tell me, what is the difference between Demjanjuk and Osama? Osama ordered and had killed over 3,000 people; Demjanjuk on the other hand was ordered to kill over 27,900 people. Again what is the difference?

Karen do NOT put me in the same category as Demjanjuk. I would not take a job where I was directly or indirectly responsible for killing another human beings. I answer to a higher calling who said "Thy shall not kill."

I do not recall corresponding with you.

That said, I don't believe you for one minute. The will to survive is paramount. That is a PROVEN PSYCHOLOGICAL FACT. PERIOD.

I hope you heard that the judge released him! Thank goodness someone has a brain.

Karen all others; the Moussad did free him, they were the ones that found the mistake and retrieved it from the KGB, even though it later turned out that our Dept. of Justice, had found out that they had made a mistake, but refused to admit it; yes he was a slave guard at a holocaust camp; he was a Ukraine solider, captured and given a choice be a guard at the front gate or be dead; no witness,no accusation that he was in anyway involved in the deaths of Jews,catholics,Gypsies, Poles or any other group that the Nazis went after, he was never in the German army, it was the Ukraine army SS, the Ukraine was a safe haven for many from the Nazis and their ally the Soviet Union, until Germany turned on the Soviets also, that is what brought Germany down, we finished off their army in the west after the Soviets had all but destroyed it in the east, this man is no war criminal, only a person that wanted to survive !

TO WITCHRUNNER: Uhhh....yeah! Everyone of the soldiers under Hitler were "Nazis", therefore SHOULD BE ACCOUNTABLE AND BROUGHT TO JUSTICE!!! Where the Hell is your head at?

AND KAREN: Who cares what you think? You have no heart!

Tanker, I did read 1.60, it is nothing more than inaccurate account of history from a bias personal opinion. Nothing in post 1.60 is a fact. I have taken college courses on the history of WWII, I am a WWII buff from a young age, a collector of WWII memorabilia, and I have never read any of that in any book, any documentary, or lecture.

He was trying to save his own life by contributing to the death of 28,000 others. Problem is, he was a soldier, who should have died with honor instead of hiding in cowardice. He, as a soldier POW, directly contributed to the death of civilians. That is a war crime and he needs to be held responsible, regardless of how long ago the crime occured. Another lesson in history, he admitted to lying on his immigration application to come to the US in the early 1950's. I wonder why that was, if he was so innocent? Then, after finally tracking him down (which probably took some time due to falsified documents) he was finally put on trial over a decade after he committed those crimes. Many, many "cold cases" and "closed cases" get reopened and solved these days because we have new technology and techniques for examining old evidence like photos for instance. So it's not surprising at all he was finally found guilty of his heinous crimes. Anyways I'm done trying to argue with anyone who defends mass murderers.

While American Government spent Millions on the Trials(more than one) in Ohio and New York, they yet have failed to touch the Illegals entering the U.S. and causing more harm than this guy could have as a Camp Guard. The Guard kept the Prisoners from escaping, with the means availble today and then, as Wars dictate.

The U.S.Gov't. is so head over heels to comply with the wishes of the Rosenthal Group that they fail to realize that he is an American citizen, retired U.A.W. Worker in Auto-making plants building Engines for Muscle Cars and Family wagons to boot.

What all Americans need to realize is that the Nazi High Command killed the "6 million Jews", but at the same time, those German Nazi's, under their "Serve or you and your Family Die" policy killed over 8 Million Russians. There were over 128 Nationalities and Races held and experimented on at Dachau, I know because I saw what happened bby visiting there when I was an American Soldier stationed in Germany in the 1970's.

Yes, I'm sympathetic to the Holocaust Dead and Survivors, but I find it sickening that our, and the German, Gov't would spend so much on a guy that was found "NOT-guilty at least twice in our Federal Courts.

Can't get your Conviction, find a new Judge, no matter the Country. Sooner or Later, Rosenthal will have to admit that the Vast majority of WWII Nazi's are gone, Dead, and they are beating a Dead Horse to get anything they can.

The Community won't like my explanation, but, that is the way it is. My ex-Mother-in-law and Father in law were in WWII in Germany

. He carried the Bayonet scars in his head til he died in 1976; My Ex- Mom-in-Law was a forced Nazi Nurse, in Checoslovakia, when the Russians were there. She told how She had witnessed the Russian Guards Nail the Tongues of 12 Toddlers and Less than 10 Year olds to an Oak table and left them to bleed to death, because they wouldn't give up their Parents name.

This guy was a forced Camp guard, ALL Guards were under the SS that ran the Camps. There is no actual proof he did anything more than stay alive. But, Rosenthal must be appeased at all costs.

I'll be collapsed or Deleted because I tell the truth, and I don't support the Rosenthal's of this world. I'm not an Anti-Semite, nor Rascist. I'm a realist that is disgusted at forcing the Prosecution of the Minnows for the Crimes of the Big Fish. Time to face the truth, but you won't, because the truth would hhurt your Agenda.

Karen in Los Angeles....please stop posting....you just show how ignorant of law you are.

1.There is no expiration for prosecuting Nazis

2. You can not use the defense that you were just following orders. It's not an argument that is allowed in cases of this type. No discussion is necessary, you can say that's not fair, blah, blah but bu the Allied Powers who won the war all made legal precedence that this argument would not be allowed and that all soldiers had a responsibility to the human race to not follow orders that violate a established moral conduct.

So if they have overwhelming evidence enough to convict him he should do the time. It would show our resolve for justice much in the way we killed an old Bin Laden, or any other criminal who has dodged justice for a long period of time.

I bet if this man was an Arab or Japanese or any other of the so call "Mongrel" world we would have killed him on capture. And I being married to a German know from many interactions with the people in that country, that they are embarrassed by the actions of their ancesters and would show no mercy to this old man.

Oh christ I just read some more of your comments Karen in LA

ARE YOU MENTALLY HANDICAPPED!

I have never read any post that lack as much substance as yours. Not one shred of logic, fact or intellect can be found in your posts. And because many of us have read your posts we now find ourselves less intellegent for it. Again I reiterate please for the sake of humanity NEVER write a post again!!

They continue to molest this helpless old man, in a vain attempt to unkill the victims of WWII. People like him were ignored after the war for a reason.

Sweet, so if I help kill people, if long enough time passes, all is forgiven, got it!

I just got it Timetraveler is a neo nazi, He doesn' hate minorities he's just promoting the "WHITE" race because we are so oppressed. Yes nice vail of dishonesty there. I have more respect for the Nazis of Germany then these new skinheads, at least they were honest and ignorant. As oppose to the neo nazis who are dishonest and ignorant. He fears minorities. Who cares if whites will be a minority...the US is a melting pot, thus by the definition a "MONGREL NATION" Half the country was settled by the French or the Spanish in the first place. Thus the names of states such as Louisiana, California, New Mexico, Texas, Arizona, Colorado, etc all names from "foreign" languages. So don't do yourself a disservice and stop "white" washing what your true feelings are....because after all if your a racist let everyone know your a racist.

KAREN, TIMETRAVELER, ET AL.....

I can resign myself to the fact that a lot of people simply do not like Jews. And I can even understand some of their reasons, although most of the reasoning is based on misconceptions and prejudice. (There simply is no "Jewish conspiracy" to take over the world, believe me I or one of my relatives would have heard of it by now)

But you know what, the bottom line is that you are in the minority, thank God, and there is a general sense of moral justice in this world that believes that anyone committing such a horrible crime against humanity such as this should be punished. Given the choice, that punishment should be swift, but as they say, the gears of justice move slowly.

As was commented on already, there is no expiration for bringing these war criminals to justice. Just ask the millions of people that had relatives killed by these monsters. Do you honestly expect them to say, "Oh now that you found who killed my relative, you can just let him go since it was so long ago".???

No, and I'm sure if you were in the same position, and someone you loved was killed in a most horrific manner, you would probably spend the rest of your life trying to seek justice.

Anyone that says we should just forget about the rest of the war criminals now living and freely moving about in society, clearly has no concept of the true nature of what atrocities occurred on such a huge scale.

But prejudice, hatred and bigotry being what it is, I'm probably just wasting my time to try and justify why we continually seek justice for the millions killed. You are closed minded people and will continue to try and spread your hatred to others.

However, if you claim you are NOT closed-minded and are willing to learn, I suggest you pick up a book (it's probably out of print by now) called "While Six Million Died" by Arthur D. Morse. It gives a detailed and horribly fascinating account of what was happening during the time of the Nazi concentration camps, both within the camps themselves and from around the world, including how and why most countries (including the United States) turned a deaf ear on the plight of the Jews and the other groups being systematically killed.

Sally,

Why did bs406 only get a warning, when I got 24 hr suspension the first time I did this???????

Karen, you invited me in when you registered on Newsvine and made private thoughts public. Personally, I think you enjoy the attention. Read Mein Kampf and tell me what the world was dealing with in the 20s and 40s.

@ Timetraveler: Do you really think you are doing anything beneficial by spewing your racist remarks? Obviously you are a member of some sort of white supremacy group, truly sad. I wonder how you feel when people like Spectaculararab are the only ones that agree with you. Your posts were closer to mein kampf than anything resembling an original and intellegent thought. So I won't waste any more of my time responding to you. To bad Sally didn't ban such a racist and evil person.

@ Karen: Your even worse than time traveler because you don't even think about what you yourself post. From your post #1.71:

"AT THIS POINT, I NO LONGER CARE THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY THE NAZIS"

And then, 5 posts later (#1.82):

"Obviously, I cared that Jewish people were killed for no good reason.

HOWEVER, the Jewish people need to STOP THE WITCHHUNT. THEIR WITCHHUNT MADE ME NOT CARE ANYMORE. If they stop the witchhunt, we can all move forward.

Big difference. Stop mischaracterizing my posts."

There is no difference, and no one is "mischaracterizing" your posts, they are simply repeating them verbatim and responding to your racist remarks which you so carefully expressed in all caps. If you don't like it, quit posting!

So to Karen, Timetraveler, and anyone who shares their same views, stop getting your education and facts from biased sources, try to educate yourselves, or keep your bigotted and ignorant remarks to yourselves and your white supremacy websites. You offer nothing to the rest of the world.

And on the topic of the article:

No one is denying that this man had at least some involvement in a Nazi death camp, no matter what the excuse is for his motive. Personally I feel that any decent, life loving, good person would gladly give up their life for the life of any baby or child. Anybody that says that I had to kill children because I feared for my own life or because I was forced to is a poor excuse for a human being. 5 years of probation is not even a slap on the wrist for what this man was really responsible for.

I still don't care and NEVER mischaracterize my posts.

I will make my point real clear.

AS LONG AS THE JEWISH PEOPLE CONTINUE THIS WITCHHUNT, I REFUSE TO CARE ABOUT THEM. THERE IS A QUALIFICATION TO MY OPINION. IF THEY STOP THE WITCHHUNT, I WILL CARE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

STOP mischaracterizing my posts.

I do not need anyone to clarify what I say because I am perfectly capable on my own.

And frankly, I could care less what YOU all think.

To the person who called me ignorant of the law, I mentioned your comment to my boss and he got a good laugh. If you only knew but you never will.

5 years of probation is not even a slap on the wrist for what this man was really responsible for.

Do you even know the sentence? It was not probation.

AND GUESS WHAT? HE'S NOT IN JAIL PER THE JUDGE. HE'S OUT. HE'S APPEALING HIS SENTENCE SO WHAT PROBATION.

If you want a thoughtful debate, try using facts.

Below is the first line from this article. Where do you see the word probation?

A German court sentenced John Demjanjuk to five years in prison on Thursday for his role in the killing of 28,060 Jews at a Nazi death camp.

Z Dub,

You start with:

No one is denying that this man had at least some involvement in a Nazi death camp, no matter what the excuse is for his motive.

This is probably true, and few dispute it.

Then you make the leap to:

Anybody that says that I had to kill children because I feared for my own life or because I was forced to is a poor excuse for a human being.

When did Demjanjuk say this? There is no evidence that this happened, nor was this line of defense used.

This is the problem I have with this whole mess. Everyone wants to hang Demjanjuk with no concrete evidence.

I think the German judge had compassion towards him. He found him guilty and then released him pending his appeal. Demjanjuk will never do any time for this. And at this point, his appeal will take years, and he can die without having another set of charges brought against him in the attempt to find him guilty of something. Of anything.

Karen -

Eye witness testimony IS UNRELIABLE. I want it banned from the courtroom

Read this. Stopped reading. Dismissed you as a moron. Ignored you as an author. This might well be the dumbest thing I've ever read on the internet, and that says a lot if you know the internet.

Dumbanddummer (post 1.80)

TRY to get a handle on the truth, will you ?

There IS no law in Israel outlawing intermarriage. RABBINIC courts will not Do them (nor will they do them in any other country), but, unlike the Islamic states where Islamic law IS civil law, one can EASILY marry outside the faith in Israel - they just use a NON Rabbinic court.

As to Karen:

Hitler used the same reasoning as you...as did MANY over the last millenium. That you dont care about Jews, is of no moment, as they dont care about you, either.

Those reasons that are cited(i.e., their involvement and, indeed flourishing in all aspects of life, professions, politics, literature, arts, sciences, etc) are only justifications for JEALOUSY. Indeed, what you call the pervasion of Jews in society have led directly to huge leaps in standards of lliving and leaps in medicine and science. Yes, true, we, as Jews have not sat back idly as other minorities have, content to wallow in a ghetto and collect welfare, and, for this, you hate Jews...well, I'm glad. and I hope that every day of your life, you lament "Za chewish problem".

By the way, do you advocate a statute of limitation on ALL mass murders, or just mass murderers of JEWS ?

Seriously what happened to the jews during Nazis era, the Jews did not ask for it. Whats going on with Jews suffering anti-semitism, jews asked for it.

Simple.

Rogue israelo. MUST CONTINE FIGHTING AGAINST THAT TERRORIST "NATION".

CASE CLOSED.

Oppos, my bad - last sentence should have been:

"By the way, do you advocate NO statute of limitation on ALL mass murders, or just mass murderers of JEWS ?

The old man needs to be released immediately and returned to the USA to live out his days for the following reasons:

1. He was tried in Israel and found NOT GUILTY by Jews! Any second trial is certainly double jeopardy.

2. As reported by the Cleveland FBI Office in the above news report, there was definite doubt of the authenticity of the prime article of supposed evidence, the ID card. How can we trust the KGB, under communism, in this matter?

3. We need to demonstrate mercy and compassion for a sickly old man, now approaching 100 years old. He should NOT be forced into ANY court anymore, but allowed to live the remainder of his life in peace!

4. This man escaped a horrible situation, where he had been forced to do things against his will. He came to the USA, worked hard and honorably, raised a family, lived an honest living, was an outstanding citizen, earned a retirement, and now deserves his retirement in the land where he earned it.

To all of the Wiesenthal Center employees, and any others who want to continue to persecute OR prosecute these elderly people, who are now beyond 80 years of age: Why don't you get an honest job? If I were President of the US, NO ONE else who did not have a criminal record in this nation would be persecuted or prosecuted for what happened in WWII, which ended 66 years ago! The time is NOW to let all of this mess DROP and STOP! The vengeance-seekers need to find something to do! Yes, I would gladly and forcefully deprive you of your wicked vengeance!

AND, SpectacularARAB, dont you think that EVERY tyrant in EVERY generation who has tried to exterminate the Jews thinks that THEY are justified ?

You see, it's not the "Case" that's closed, but your "mind" that's closed.

Closed to anything other than hate.

Your poor writing skills aside, you seem to claim that the Jews of Eastern Europe didnt deserve the holocaust, but the Jews of THIS century do. To us Jews, that sounds WAY to familiar. Do you know what ELSE is "familiar"?

Mali Kenya Nigeria Yemen Pakistan Sudan Algeria Philippines Somalia Moscow
Tanzania (kidnap and beheading of Christians) Mauritania (kidnap/killing of 4 frenchwomen)China (Al Queda urging the Muslim minority to engage in Jihad against the Chinese) Kabul (bombing of the Indian Embassy)

WHY are these familiar ? They are all examples of ISLAMIC terror which have NOTHING to do with either Israel OR the U.S.

"Spectacular" Arab ? LOL, I dont think so. You're just another Arab who justifies hate and mass murder - "Spectacular ? ho-hum...no, just...predictable.

The man needs to be hung just as his cohorts were!!!!!!!! Never forget!! If your kid was tortured by this guy you would not ever stop ...

Never drop or stop!!!!!! He was NOT forced to do a damned thing! he did it by his own free will.

EK Kadid -

LOL..BEST laugh I've had in YEARS. "Double Jeopardy"? Stop using legal terms you dont understand.

As far as "forced to do things" - The Neuremburg trials established that the excuse "I vas Joost falloving za Oderz" is NOT a defense.

In this country (as in most others), if someone holds a gun to your head and orders you to steal or they will shoot you, and you steal, you cannot be prosecuted; however, if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to KILL someone or they will kill you, and you kill, you have still committed an illegal act. I'm SURE if will be VERY difficult for you to ascertain the difference between the two example, as "There are none so blind as those who WILL not see." In any case, I got a good laugh at your "double Jeopardy" argument. I think O.J. raised it in his civil trial, too.

You make me laugh Gharms. I'm not the only person who KNOWS that eyewitness testimony is suspect.

The Innocence Project has cleared hundreds, if not not thousands of convicted people who were convicted on the basis of EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY.

Their convictions happened before DNA analysis was in regular use.

The Innocence Projects' DNA analysis CLEARED THEM OF THE CRIME.

Some of these people were in jail for 20 years. And YOU'RE laughing.

That is what's sick. You fail to acknowledge that eyewitness testimony is not accurate.

I could go on about this topic but I'm done work for the day and prefer to be outside playing.

The biggest thing that ticks me off about this - HOW MANY TRIALS HAS THIS MAN HAD FOR THE SAME DAMN CRIME?

In OUR country, there is one, because we have this concept of double jeopardy.

You can not be tried for the same crime twice. It's too bad the rest of the world does not adhere to this concept.

And I laugh at the person who THINKS he knows what double jeopardy is per the comment below. It was used correctly and all the commenter did below was joke without any basis for this comment.

LOL..BEST laugh I've had in YEARS. "Double Jeopardy"? Stop using legal terms you dont understand.

Tuff @!$%#. This isn't our country that had the trials. Our country didn't even have much to do with this. Our country isn't the know all of the world. so tuff!!! our country didn't have 6 million jews murdered either! Our country needs to shut the hell up about it!

And guess what? You CAN be tried for the same crime twice.Too fricking bad! I hope they hang the ass.

Ooookay, Karen. (another wannabe lawyer)

Let's school you on "double jeopardy 101", shall we ?

Double jeopardy, PER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION prohibits the SAME sovereign, from putting one on TRIAL, for the SAME "criminal" offense.

So..

1. Double Jeopardy cannot attach when a DIFFERENT sovereign prosecutes. While the U.S. and Israel have prosecuted, that does not and CAN not, take another country's right to prosecute away from it.

2. "Criminal" trial. That's why I brought up OJ - by your (lol !) definition of Double Jeopardy, once OJ was found not guilty in the CRIMINAL trial, there was no right to try him civilly. (yes, yes, I know, you dont agree, so, I guess you know better than anyone else).

3. If someone is kidnapped in California and taken across the border to Nevada, which state CAN prosecute ?, the answer is..BOTH. One state cannot take away the rights of another. The victim was kidnapped in BOTH states.

Any questions, Karen ? ( I mean, intelligent ones...)

It always amazes me how bigots can spew their personal views in public. It shows you how screwed up their thinking really is. I know the whole "political correctness" thing has gone a bit overboard, but there's a huge difference between being politically correct and acting like a member of the KKK.

Karen and the other people acting like bigots on this board, PLEASE STOP! If we've read your racist comments ONCE, that's already one time too many.

And trying to justify your warped opinions and beliefs just makes it so much worse and more embarrassing for yourselves.

Society is moving forward, I suggest you catch up with it!

Jeff

You are condescending and rude. I am a legal professional as in I get paid to know the law and legal proceedings.

I did not read your post because you have no idea what double jeopardy is if you laughed at the person who originally brought it up.

The person who brought it up used it in the proper context. Why would I read what you have to say when I already know you have to say about double jeopardy is WRONG?

Meanwhile, here is a legal definition of double jeopardy so that maybe you can learn something:

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d075.htm

DOUBLE JEOPARDY

Being tried twice for the same offense; prohibited by the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

'[T]he Double Jeopardy Clause protects against three distinct abuses: [1] a second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal; [2] a second prosecution for the same offense after conviction; and [3] multiple punishments for the same offense.' U.S. v. Halper, 490 U.S. 435, 440 (1989).

Separate punishments in multiple criminal prosecution are constitutionally permissible, however, if the punishments are not based upon the same offenses. In Blockburger v. U.S., 284 U.S. 299 (1932), the Supreme Court held that punishment for two statutory offenses arising out of the same criminal act or transaction does not violate the Double Jeopardy Clause if 'each provision requires proof of an additional fact which the other does not.' Id. at 304.

More recently, in U.S. v. Dixon, 113 S.Ct. 2849, 2856 (1993), the Court clarified the use of the 'same elements test' set forth in Blockburger when it over-ruled the 'same conduct' test announced in Grady v. Corbin, 495 U.S. 508 (1990), and held that the Double Jeopardy Clause bars successive prosecutions only when the previously concluded and subsequently charged offenses fail the 'same elements' test articulated in Blockburger. See also Gavieres v. U.S., 220 U.S. 338, 345 (1911) (early precedent establishing that in a subsequent prosecution '[w]hile it is true that the conduct of the accused was one and the same, two offenses resulted, each of which had an element not embraced in the other').

If you're a "legal professional", then I'm the king of the world.

PS - If you abolished all eywitness testimony because SOME of it was proven unreliable, then you would have THOUSANDS of guilty people on the streets killing and raping and pillaging other people. So glad you're so pro-criminal. Let me guess, you're a gopher for the ACLU?

A legal professional - In your case that could be anything from a receptionist to a secretary to a stenographer.

You say you know what Double Jeopardy is, but do you know how it applies to this set of circumstances? Obviously not!

Did you actually read what you copy and pasted? Obviously not!

You're so special aren't you? I am amazed that you are so knowledgeable.

NOT.

Your barbs don't affect me. And too bad YOU have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to double jeopardy.

You obviously DID NOT READ MY POST so I will post it again. Legal professionals are careful with words and use precise language. I said OUR country.

Further, there are differences in JURISDICTION (ie, federal v. state). Do you know what that word means? I do but I don't think you do.

People who mock others the way you do are JUST INSECURE and that's why they have to attack other people.

The fact of the matter is that this man IS NOT IN JAIL AND IS APPEALING HIS SENTENCE. He'll probably win the appeal. And when the Jewish people STOP the witchhunt, I'll support them again. The persecution of this man needs to stop NOW.

The biggest thing that ticks me off about this - HOW MANY TRIALS HAS THIS MAN HAD FOR THE SAME DAMN CRIME?

In OUR country, there is one, because we have this concept of double jeopardy.

I'm going to step into this dogfight for a second (and probably kick myself for it later):

Karen, Jeff did not attack YOUR understanding of double jeopardy in the first place. When you jumped in to defend EK's usage (which was incorrect as he was referencing the trial in Israel - hence any law protected by the US constitution doesn't apply), you opened yourself to attack since his use was not in fact correct. It doesn't matter if your next comment cleared up that you know double jeopardy is a US concept; nobody cares at that point. "Legal professionals are careful with words and use precise language." Yeah...

To avoid getting picked on, I don't think I'd jump in claiming to be a legal professional (I'm a professional mermaid, who cares?). I promise you, nobody cares. This stops a lot of personal attacks across the board.

You Are All Pathetic

DevAvo

ZDub

- You are all pathetic. It looks like you didn't read my post at all. You saw a few key words and instantly switched into "you're a racist" mode. How very typical of the brainwashed masses.

I don't condone violence against anyone and never have. If I point out facts that you don't want to hear, that's too bad. Stick your head in the sand if it makes you feel better, but if you expect me to do the same you're going to be disappointed.

Pointing out the facts of the Jewish dominance of the media, political action organizations, entertainment and international finance, as well as their insidious actions that ARE causing the disintegration of White people as a nation is not "anti-Semitism". It is the truth. I don't care what you call it.

My position is that people have the RIGHT TO EXIST free from subversion and "defacto genocide" . This is not hatred or condemnation of others. Rather, it is a condemnation of any system that forces all groups together under punishment of law and then punishes the achievers to subsidize the underachievers, or restrains the rights of some to give extra comfort to others.

To the prospect of the White race disappearing from the face of the Earth, you say "so what". Would you be equally as unmoved at the prospect of the black African race disappearing? What about Chinese? It appears you are only indifferent of the prospect of Whites becoming extinct? That-my friend is RACISM!!

Ok, thought about this for a while, and I think this is what timetraveler needs to know. Time, I understand why your concerned about the white race "disappearing," but don't you think this could actually be a good thing? The notion of classifying people into distinct groups is a natural human action, but it is this very concept of generalization that is responsible for so much violence in the world. If the races all mixed, and you had no more pure whites, blacks, asians, etc. it would become very hard to be a racist, because chances are you'd be being racist to at least some aspect of your own heritage. The fact that you are so concerned about preserving the purity of the white race is what is showing you to be a true racist. Oh, and repeating the same stereotypes (ie the Jews control the media) definitely does not help.

@btone: No one has proven that this man actually killed a child himself, but anyone who knows what was going on in these camps should know that if this man had any part of being a guard (which he has admitted to giving the excuse that he was forced to) then he at least saw other nazis killing children or forcing them into the death chambers.

@Karen: First, when I said this man got 5 years of probation I was being a bit sarcastic. Really this man will never see hard time, if he goes to prison it will be in a hospital environment. So what I was saying is that you all are crazy for acting like its the end of the world that this man got such a minimal sentence. Who ever is paying you to be a "legal professional" (=secretary), should fire you immediately. You are clueless when it comes to understanding the law, and you obviously care way too much about what other people think. I'm done with you, go take your meds girl.

Karen, Karen, (tsk, tsk).

I gave you examples of how "double jeopardy" in reality, is different than the plain meaning of the 5th amendment.

Do you want more ?

The police officers in the Rodney King beating were acquitted in state court, and then convicted in FEDERAL court for the violation of civil rights.

If you kill a postal employee and are tried in state court for murder, you can still be tried in Federal court over the FEDERAL statute of killing a Federal Employee...and the list goes on and on.

Am I condescending ? Not usually to "stupid" people, but yes to the "ignorant", and you certainly fall under the category of the latter. What's the difference ? one simply does not know, while the other wants to think that "she" knows and proceeds as if she does, in fact know, when she KNOWS that she doesnt know.

You are also probably one of "those " who wil claim "foul - violation of free speech" when one advocated the armed take over of the government, or when one falsely yells "fire" in a crowded theater.

Trust me - you displayed your ignorance loudly and in front of the entire newsvine world.

You're a legal "professional"? as pointed out by others...that is very doubtful.

Have great day, Karen...and be SURE not to kill that burglar who comes into your home at night ...because, after all - killing is illegal.

Oh..and one more thing, Karen ?

Your quote:

"And when the Jewish people STOP the witchhunt, I'll support them again."

Thanks, but, I think we'll be fine without your support.

ZDub - Ok, thought about this for a while, and I think this is what timetraveler needs to know. Time, I understand why your concerned about the white race "disappearing," but don't you think this could actually be a good thing?

Clearly, you who feel that the de facto genocide of the White race is a good thing. However, do you feel that you or anyone else has the right to make this happen? Are White people deserving of the basic human right of deciding for themselves whether they would like to carry on their lineage or surrender it to obscurity? Wouldn't knowingly pushing for the end of an entire race of people because of belief in some scheme of social engineering be just as bad as the Nazis?

The notion of classifying people into distinct groups is a natural human action, but it is this very concept of generalization that is responsible for so much violence in the world.

Contrary to the assertions of the early 20th century Marxist sociologist Franz Boas who claimed race was a "social construct", humans do fit into categories, and those extend far beyond the common arguments about "skin color". Physical, psychological, and behavioral traits can be accurately and statistically charted for race categories. When forensic scientists find human skeletal remains, they can tell the age, sex and RACE of the person by bones alone. Blacks typically show substantially more frequent rates of aggression and violence. The latest several releases of the FBI's Uniform Crime Report shows that blacks are statistically nearly 40 times more likely to commit a violent crime such as assault and rape against a White than the reciprocal. The modern politically correct explanation for this is "socio-economic status", "lack of access to education" etc,. In other words, assign blame to ANYTHING BUT differences in race, even when the truth stands naked before us.

The fact that you are so concerned about preserving the purity of the white race is what is showing you to be a true racist.

So the concern for the preservation of the Jewish people as a nation, or black people as a nation, or Hispanic people as a nation is good, just, and worthy of applause, but the same concern for Whites is a crime? And you're calling ME a racist?

Oh, and repeating the same stereotypes (ie the Jews control the media) definitely does not help.

Again, you have the right to refuse to believe that the "Jews control the media". Just remember that the facts are independent of your perception.

.

Jeff-573598

Spectacular" Arab ? LOL, I dont think so. You're just another Arab who justifies hate and mass murder

You so really JEALOUS of me becuz you have shown that I'm SMARTER than you.

Your Blatant Rants with your CLUELESS notions about/against me proved to be inconclusive.

Simply Pathetic. Really you have a serious problem, may I suggest you seek counseling or therapy!

Me Still continue to stand by my words.

My handwriting is Unique and still SPECTACULAR.

My handwriting is Unique and still SPECTACULAR

Nope. My mistae becuz it was supposed to be- "My writing Skills is Unique".

Stll Spectacular.

Simple.

"Simple" ?

...more like "Simpleton".

Jeff - you are NOT a lawyer or legal professional. It is obvious.

I posted the constitution, the highest law of the land.

Get over yourself. You are posting nonsense, not legal analyses.

Karen, you're so full of sh!t it hurts. Keep on telling everyone what an astute law professional you are, all while backing arguments that are directly against existing statutes, amendmendments, and laws. Like I said, you're probably the person who makes copies at the ACLU. Those guys like to sh!t all over the constitution too.

Karen.

I think the room knows what I am. Telling you would accomplish nothing. It is obvious from the examples I've given, (posts 1.118 & 1.127) that I not only know what I'm talking about, but, that my position is demonstrably correct.

YOU, on the other hand, and your ignorant rants are just as demonstrably incorrect - but, let's LOOK at the "Constitution" you quote in post 1.120, shall we ?

1. "Being tried twice for the same offense; prohibited by the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution."

...you DO know, dont you..that the U.S. Constitution is the law of OUR land, right ? that no other country has to adhere to it, right ? You further DO know that Demjanyjuk was NOT tried, nor found guilty in the U.S., right ?

So..aside from being ignorant, and aside from pressing a position that is untenable, and aside from the entire ROOM seeing you as a fool, tell us -

What "nonsense" am I posting ? Did the cases of "(not) double jeopardy that I cited "not" happen ? Gee, I'm sure OJ, and the "King" cop defendants wish YOU were on their legal team - they'd have gotten off on the D.J. argument, wouldnt they ?

Ah ! I see the "nonsense" you're talking about - how foolish of me. Of COURSE Germany and any other country has to obey OUR laws, and recognize double jeopardy, right ?

Why dont you address the examples I've given ? Even your own citation of the Constitution does not absolve "Ivan" from foreign prosecution.

C'mon, Karen, we're all DYING to hear your pearls of wisdom !

#1.44

That is one of the reasons why he was sent to Germany to stand trial.

He didn't get sent to Germany to stand trial. He was sent from the USA for falsifying legal documents. The German police escorted him back to Germany for the trial.

#1.36

My great gradfather was exterminated by the Nazi's and I apologize for the fact I cannot look at the country of Germany or its citizens without a jaundiced eye

Humans are born with the ability to hate. Hatred is a learned trait and unfortunately many of our ancestors instill some level of hatred in us. I dare say that since your great-grandfather was killed in an extermination camp that you were not born by the time of his demise and therefore you were taught to to have the attitude that you have toward Germans. There are many others in the U.S who have never personally known slavery but hate others for it and demand "justice" in many forms - simply because of the treatment of their long dead ancestors.

Thinker:

I understand what you're saying, but I'd like to add a comment of two.

First, true, that humans are "born with the ability to hate" - but they are also "born" with the "ability" to love and to feel every other emotion. "Ability" has nothing to do with it.

Being "wary" of a potential dangerous situation is ingrained in us. "Fear" is our mind's way of letting us know that we are engaged in, or close to, a dangerous situation. There is nothing wrong with being fearful or being wary.

HATE, on the other hand, is taught.

It can be taught by , say, a white supremest father, to his son; on the other hand, hate can be learned. If , say, "john" has been mugged 3 times in his life, all by, say, blacks, he may learn to hate them. I am not making a value judgment here on whether "learning" or "being taught" is fair or accurate. I'm just saying that human NATURE is not to "hate" but human nature IS to be fearful of a dangerous situation (whether real or just perceived).

As to Germans:

Germany started not one, but TWO world wars. Germany was responsible for one of the most heinous mass murders in history. I, too, having lost family in the holocaust, and hearing stories from my grandparents, grew up hating Germans as well.

As I got older, I saw how HARD the Germans are trying to ensure that their past is not repeated. I cite their anti-hate laws which are some of the most stringent in the world. Some may even say that they cross the line re "free speech". Be that as it may, I cant blame them for erring on the side of caution...in fact, I commend them for it. They are at the forefront of returning Nazi seized items and reparations to survivors.

Are some Germans Nazi sympathizers ? Wishing for the "good ol' days"? of course...just as there are many in OTHER countries who do; however, the government of Germany has shown that the party line is to condemn this and to that I say "GOOD for you "!

The posters on here who are of the mindset of "Leave Brittany ALONE !" (i.e. leave the poor old man alone"), have never justified WHY.

If, say, Ossama was captured when he was 85 years old, would we say "leave the poor man alone"? If there is no statute of limitation on ONE murder (or accessory thereto), WHY would we put one on "mass" murder ?

Germany was RIGHT in prosecuting. German had the RIGHT to prosecute murders committed on their soil, and against their citizens, be they Arian, Jew, or Gypsy. This is so whether he was or was not prosecuted in Israel, the U.S., or elsewhere.

Wow...our little paralegal Karen is still at it...fighting all over the vine...I wasn't aware she didn't like Jews either...

Oh no, nein, it wasn't me. It wasn't me...oh, you have proof? Oh, well okay it was me, but look at what the communists have done and give me a pass, alright? I'm a hard working, retired, but hard working productive American immigrant for many years. Do I really have to pay for my past mistakes?

Yes. Yes, you do.

He was a flippin' GUARD. They just found someone remotely tied to the camp and figured "this will show 'em all by golly. We mean business." Yeah. Real tough guys. Sheesh.

Kiss the behind, Talk to the Hand. He was a notorious guard who participated in all forms of torture and murder. He didn't just stand there and open the gates!

Ivan the Terrible - Demjanjuk - was well known for his inhumane treatment of prisoners at Treblinka AND other death camps.

He's guilty today, just as he was guilty following the end of WWII. That's why he fled where he lived and changed his bloody name and pretended to be someone he's not for more than 60 freaking years. So he wouldn't have to take responsibility for what he did!

He did it. He should pay for it. End of story.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Ally, did you miss the part in the article where the Israeli court ruled that he wasn't Ivan the Terrible?

Ally

So you have the definitive proof that he was Ivan the Terrible? Where have you been for 30 years while court after court have been trying to find this evidence.

Look, I'm not saying he wasn't, but after this long without being able to prove it, this is nothing more than a Nazi witch-hunt, and nothing about bringing a war criminal to justice.

Did you miss the part where the only picture of Ivan the Terrible matched Demjanjuk's? It's the same new wave identity software that they used to identify bin Laden's dead body.

He did it. He's guilty. Now he's convicted.

In a 1985 report, the FBI's Cleveland, Ohio, field office concluded that: "Justice is ill-served in the prosecution of an American citizen on evidence which is not only normally inadmissible in a court of law, but based on evidence and allegations quite likely fabricated by the KGB."

Ally, you are calling Israel a liar? Israel found him innocent. Why are you attacking Israel's judgment?

Amen and amen Doc Holiday. And this guy has been "seriously ill" and supposedly at death's door for how many years now? Does the fact of him being "a lowly guard" make him any less complicit?

Israel found him not guilty. This is not the same as innocent. I haven't seen the evidence, but Germany must have had something to want him quite this badly. We are being spoon-fed information--we don't know what is going on without a full transcript.

If he was just a guard who did nothing wrong, why did he try so hard to keep people from finding out about his past? Why didn't he just tell the truth the first time after they found him--he only admitted dribs and drabs as he found out that the points could actually be proven.

I think I lost sympathy for him when he started pretending to be unable to walk and acting frail (notice the way he is pretending to be basically comatose in the photograph?). He's actually reasonably spry for a person his age--it is the pretense that makes me suspicious of him.

Remember that the US authorities helped certain Nazis come to the US, and only later were forced to pretend they had never done so. If this was an unfair verdict, he has the same chance to appeal and get the case thrown out. As old as he is, he's probably going to pass away before he does any hard time.

These cases are very like the Civil Rights era cases that are finally putting behind bars the people that everyone has always known perpetrated crimes. While it isn't really justice--as justice should, ideally, be swift--it is gratifying to know that these fellows aren't dying warm and safe in their own beds. It keeps the others who got away with things on edge and keeps them from being warm and safe, too.

Sorry, but in 1985 the FBI in Cleveland was far from competent. The mafia was rampant in Cleveland at that time and the FBI was too busy bungling their pursuit of them to get much right, much less validating an ID card from the 1940's. YOu have to remember that the Berlin Wall was still up, there wasn't any dialogue between east and west, and we didn't have the technology we have today.

The guy got five years - his alleged victims might have had five minutes.

Guys, seriously? Do some research. The "Ivan the Terrible" that seems notorious to you was 16th century royalty. I believe calling this man by that name was to "liken" him to the real Ivan the Terrible--not to say he actually IS that man (who has been dead for several hundred years).

I few of you keep pounding the "fact" that Israel found him INNOCENT when in fact that is not correct. Israel ruled that his sentence be reversed b/c there was not absolute and definite proof that he was Ivan the Terrible but in fact may have been another camp guard. That is not the same as being innocent but Israel is a fair and just nation (I live there and despite some of the more mean spirited comments about Israel and their treatment of Palestinians which is a whole other topic and one I would be happy to enlighten anyone on - I can say honestly that Israel is as just as any other Western nation I can think of) and b/c it is fair and just the Israeli court could not sentence him to death while there was still ANY doubt. Court in Germany (as well as America) are not held to those same standards.

aalynia - google "Ivan the terrible nazi" and you'll find what everyone is talking about on here.

He was a flippin' GUARD.

And your point is? In the U.S. get-away drivers are prosecuted along with the actual robbers/murderers.

Is it surprising that the FBI would find doubt with anything the KGB did/said/claimed during the Cold War? The KGB could have presented the world with Hitler's head on a platter with conclusive DNA evidence that it really was him, and the US government would have doubted it to be true. The fact that a branch of the US government doubted this in 1985 means nothing...

Actually he was first found guilty and sentenced to death. Then the verdict was overturned. That's the problem with holding a trial in the 1980's for crimes committed in the early 1940's. Wonder why he fled, went into hiding, and changed his name during all that time? Perhaps he did have something to hide. Afterall, he admitted that he lied about any Nazi involvement on his immigration application. I say good riddance, whether the mere 5-year jail sentence gets him or old age gets him, he will face the ultimate judge soon (if you believe in that stuff).

Wait, we are trusting what the US govt had to say about RUSSIA/KGB during the cold war? hahahahahahah

americans are stupid...i feel ashamed.

(begin sarcasm) yeah, I cant fathom that the FBI would say something untrue about another nation we were in a nuke stand off with. (end sarcasm)

There is no statute of limitations on murder. However, I find that I am torn on the issue. The contry was at war and he was most likely "following orders." While that doesn't excuse his actions, imagine if Germany had won the war. Should US higher ups be convicted of war crimes simply because their side lost? I would think that since he is frail and nearing the end he should be left alone. Convicting him of anything won't bring back those who perished.

I would also be curious of the outcome of the validity of the documents in question. If fake he is free. If not does it matter...

Go after the bankers that financed both sides of the war and not a helpless old man.

TO ELIZABETH MARIE: Exactly! Crime is crime, therefore he SHOULD be prosecuted because he was still guilty of killing innocent people whether he wanted to or not.

TALK TO THE HAND: Um....you DO know that the guards were also flippin' responsible for killing people, right? smfh

It still amazes me how people want to give a pass to a 90 year old guard who killed people in a concentration camp, but want to execute every last Muslim burning a US flag on Al Jazeera. Please be consistent in your thought. Me, like they said in Full Medal Jacket: "Kill them all and let God sort them out".....Oh OK you got me I don't believe in god, so let Justice be served.

"Kill them all and let God sort them out". That is pathetic. Calling for the killing of people is ignorant and not what being human is all about. Ask palin, she called for the killing of Julian Assange and showed to the World, once again, her ignorance and lack of leadership.

It is not about giving a pass. It is about convicting the guilty based on factual evidence. Even an Israeli court acquitted him for lack of evidence. The FBI questioned the validity of the fake ID card as a Russian fraud. He was convicted with only this as evidence and was not allowed to present the FBI's claim. No evidence were presented showing he actually pulled a trigger of ANY kind or was responsible for one death.

Dumb and unbiased.

TO ELIZABETH MARIE: Exactly! Crime is crime, therefore he SHOULD be prosecuted because he was still guilty of killing innocent people whether he wanted to or not.

Well we have a lot of blood on our hands, I call it war, you call it a crime. Many innocent civilians have been killed in our Global War on Terror. Are you suggesting we should prosecute our service members following orders?

War is a game of attrition, killing everyone on the opposing side until they surrender to the will of the victor. We do not fight wars anymore. We wage battles trying to avoid collateral damage.

mo nig:..Guilt by association at the very least...

Ouch! you are putting us (US) on trial as well. We loaned lots of money and helped them develop war machinery that led to the war and massacre.

Ivan the Terrible - Demjanjuk - was hardly just 'in the general area'. He actively participated in genocide and was notorious at Treblinka and other death camps.

The Isreali's should have killed him years ago, rather than deporting him.

Which was promptly appealed and overturned! And new technology has proven that Demjanjuk, who fled and changed his name, was in fact 'Ivan the Terrible.

What's wrong with you? Why do you want to protect a murderer? Just because he's old?

Ally if you got proof to back up your statement, post it. Every thing I have read says the FBI did not believe he was, and the Israeli courts overturned his conviction. If he is guilty, let him pay. If he is not, let him go.

Actually it wasn't overturned. In fact the high court ruling wasn't even appealed.

It was appealed, the appeals were denied. New charges were filed. Keep up, please. And then we deported his ass.

I feel deeply for all the families that continue to deal with the horrors of the Holocaust. What was done to you and your families is a blight on the history of humanity, and nothing more than barbaric. But to cast guilt on a man who's guilt has not been able to be evidentially proven in 30 years by multiple courts is not doing any justice to the tragedy that survivors and their families continue to live every day.

If he is indeed guilty then he has received his punishment, and if you are of faith, he will receive it for eternity.

In a case of mistaken identity, his conviction for crimes against humanity was later overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court in 1993 due to a finding of reasonable doubt based on evidence suggesting that Demjanjuk was not "Ivan the Terrible" and had, in fact, been a guard at camps besides the one at Treblinka.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk

The Israeli Supreme Court unanimously acquitted retired Ohio autoworker John Demjanjuk Thursday of being the sadistic Nazi death camp guard "Ivan the Terrible" and threw out his death sentence.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/302155/ISRAELI-COURT-OVERTURNS-CONVICTION-OF-DEMJANJUK.html

If he is guilty he should pay, but I believe there is reasonable doubt.

are people still alive that were victims of the holocaust. Because yes it was horrible but that was years ago. Victims who are alive kids, grandkids greatgrand kids are not suffering today from it.

mib234,

What in he?? are you talking about? So apparently if your relatives were murdered for no reason, what you are saying is that, you would be ok with that? Nice. Real nice. "Are people still alive that were victims of the holocaust?" Goodness gracious! The dumbing down continues.

mib234--yes, some people who were victims of the Holocaust but survived the camps suffer to this very day. Look it up--many of the survivors live in institutionalized care. No one can wear hard-soled shoes around them because the sound sends them into a traumatized state. These poor souls sit around and relive what happened to them all those years ago.

Their children and grandchildren suffer because of their suffering (if they were lucky enough to have children). It is really pretty harrowing--there have been quite a few news segments done on the poor souls.

If the guards are still alive--then there are people who are still alive. It is very sad to see the suffering of those survivors--you should go look before you make callous comments.

I know plenty of people who still have the tattoos from the camps. I will never discount the horrors that they endured. However, to go after someone in such a way that the courts have gone after this man is not doing any honor to the memories of those massacred in the name of racial hatred.

There simply is no evidence that has stood up in court that proves he is Ivan the Terrible. The most he's guilty of is being a coward who didn't stand up against the crimes being committed against his fellow humans. How many people here would do that? I'm guessing not many. Most of us would save our own skins. Regardless of his involvement, he's lived with the memories of those camps for longer than most of us have been alive.

If we were to use the same logic as that thrown around on this forum, should we have not also gone after the pilots who dropped the bombs that killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese on the order of Harry Truman? Where do we draw the line as to what's ok and not ok as done under orders of your superiors in times of war?

I would die before I sent babies, or anyone for that matter, to their graves. Sure couldn't live with that.

Sandie,

When you have the SS looking over your shoulder and telling you they will not only tortureyou, but the rest of your family, typically you will do these sort of things.

It is called WAR. It is in the dictionary under W A R . You statement is one that many should take to heart. If you have never been in war, never killed for your country, you really should refrain from statements of "I would never do that". Before The Storm I would have never killed a man woman or child. I killed many during those two years I was there. They did not have a gun to my head...just the thought that if I did not I was going to jail till I rot.

Amen to that statement, Mark.

If the FBI has doubts about the evidence that is being used at his trial the case should be dropped.

What has the FBI got to do with the trial in Germany? They had their own investigative bodies produce sufficient evidence to convict.

Thank you for your thoughtful posts, GedePrime.

GedePrime and Mark - great posts. Smart and insightful.

MIB234 - A lack of intelligence and a lack of compassion: a miserably lethal combination. My condolences.

Don't tell me you actually believe that Bin Laden fabrication, he's been dead for almost a decade. Take a note from an EX-SEAL, Gov. Ventura, he'll set you straight. As for this old man, he was a guard and they admit there is no crime that can be attributed to him. So what do we do next, prosecute the Nazi Mess Hall Cooks also? What about the Office Staff? If you were a low level Nazi Soldier in WW2 you did what you were told or get shot yourself.

To bad he didn't refuse and they didn't shoot him right there. Would have saved 3 governments millions of dollars and 30 years of trouble.

The Federal Reserve and British banks financed Hitler in the beginning, talk about saving millions, realize who the real criminals are, the international bankers financing both sides of EVERY modern era war, and it is still going on and our income tax just barely pays the interest to the Fed.

See, here's my problem. Alot of people like to white-knight it up, and scream 'JUSTICE' and want to charge everyone who wore a Hakenkreuz to death cause 'they should have stood up! It's no excuse! Following orders my ass!'

C'mon, you really think half the people charging this would have stood up? To protect a bunch of people you were indoctrinated to hate all your life? Hell no! I sure as heck wouldn't. Sorry, survival first friends.

Survival for yourself by helping to put thousands of others to death? That is sick.

Not everyone in the world is as noble as they'd like to think. Peer pressure is a powerful force today, but it was damn near lethal in 30's and 40's Germany.

I'll reaffirm, and probably be called a monster, but yes, survival first. The people in the camps weren't the ones with the guns. Chances are you would have been indoctrinated to hate them for years. I'm not sure alot of these 'crusaders of justice' now-a-days would have been a bad enough dude to stand up for these poor defenseless people. Human nature, sorry.

Agree Geno, so does the majority of educated Americans.

TO MARK-1219747: And you're the authority on educated Americans, I presume? lmao

What the standard is for conviction, the prosecutors have met it.

"Reasonable doubt" left this case years ago.

Many of the worst of the Nazis escaped to South America, after the war and led quite nice lives. They all should have been tried and they all should have been hanged, but between the Vatican and the governments in South America, that made their escapes possible... they also escaped any kind of prosecution...permanently. Ever heard of Menegele?

Many were also shipped over to our nuclear program after Germany was thouroughly crushed, so we could expediate our nuke building.

But it's cool guys, they're with us.

First of all, he wasn't a German soldier or a German scientist - he was a German death camp guard. It wasn't something he did for a little while or for a couple weeks or for part of his day - it was his job to assist in the task of killing thousands of innocent old people, women, men, and children.

I fail to see the similarity - your argument is that as long as they are/were German, they were equally guilty? I would say the death camp guard, particularly one who volunteers, is infinitely more guilty than the scientist.

You've got a really good point there Geoff, I'll admit that. But I still think it's laughable that the scientists got off with cozy jobs over here. These guys were making nukes! Think about what would happen if the Germans had beat us to the nuclear punch. They surely would have been tried as war criminals.

Provided we weren't nuked into oblivion of course.

Lynn,

Israel let Mengele slip through their fingers in 1960. They went for Eichmann instead. By the time they returned their interest in Mengele, he had fled. Just saying.

Geoff,

You think he volunteered for the duty? He was picked randomly, told to do a job or his family would be killed, and then he did what his country asked of him. Sound familiar? Ever see the video of US tanks with bulldozier blades on them filling the trenches with LIVE Iraqi soldiers in them drowning them in sand? I did I was there. War is War.

Some ex Nazi's get to work in the space program

von Braun didn't help kill nearly 28 thousand Jews. Because he was German doesn't mean he was Nazi. That is like saying that all white Americans are KKK members.

Are you sure about that, thinker? Von Braun was a decorated Nazi War Hero, having joined the SS in 1937 and was promoted to Sturmbannfuhrer in June 1943. His V2 Rocket was launched at England during the war. Incidentally, those same V2's were built by whom? Oh, prisoners from Mittelbau-Dora, where 20,000 people died during the course of the war. Actually, more people died BUILDING his rocket than were killed when it was used as a weapon. In 1944, he admitted to hand-picking the people to use as slave-labor. So no, being German didn't make him a Nazi; being a Nazi made him a Nazi.

I don't argue against your point Tinstars. My point was that being a military member doesn't make one a member of the leaders political persuasion. In American society, the president may be of a particular political affiliation but that doesn't mean that since he is the commander-in-chief that all military members are automatically in the same party.

And there is a difference between developing a new technology for a piece of war machinery and acts of genocide against non-combatants. His V2 rockets were part of the Axis weaponry just like the carpet bombing by the Allies was part of the war strategies. Had the Allies had the V2 technology, I felt confident they would have used it also.

thinker - I understand. It's like saying if you're in the army right now, you're a democrat, right? I agree with you, too that had the Allies created the V2 it would have been used. For crying out loud, look at Hiroshima!

I did a little research before I commented on this before - Von Braunn was truly a cruel man. He watched men hung for trying to sabatoge his rocket, picked the slave labor by hand, had a man beat for doing something incorrectly - and while he was watched insisted that he be whipped HARDER, even though the flesh was already tearing from the man's body. There are more stories but if I sit here much longer my boss will wonder what I'm doing ;)

My point: I agree that being German did not make people Nazis automatically - I just think Von Braunn might have been a bad example ;)

al qaeda is US CIA false flag unit, we have them in Syria, Lybia, and Egypt stirring up crap right now. We just need another boogey man to feed the military industrial complex and all the sheep are buying into this garbage. At least the Taliban put a near halt to Opium Poppy Production in Afghanistan, now our troops guard the fields and Afghanistan provides 90% of the worlds heroin. Search You Tube for "Geraldo Rivera interviews soldiers about poppy fields" the US soldiers admit it. Madelin Albright went on the record in 2003 stating Bin Laden was on ice (literally), America is a great country, our gov't just sucks ass, and it doesn't matter if you are a republican or a democrat the TSA is still gonna grab your balls and put their hands down your daughters pants.

geno, you are messed up. I suppose you don't believe astronauts walked on the moon either

Geoff,

Open your eyes bro. UBL was on dialysis in 2001 due to renal failure. There were no machines in the compound or in the city. When the gov was asked on this they said...

UBL took extracts from watermellon that corrected his renal failure

Really? I mean Really? Hell the fact they threw the corpse over into the ocean and not study it for this miracle cure is just astounding. Open your eyes bro..you are riding rubber dingy rapids with your eyes closed.

geno and Mark, you might as well talk to the wall. They will never believe what you're trying to tell them. Too many facts just confuse people. That, and the ostrich approach that so many take to avoid disrupting their ignorant existence.

Lizzie, Mark, Karen in LA, Geno, et al:

I refuse to believe, without irrefutable proof, that 9/11 was really perpetrated by the US and UBL is just a scapegoat, that we buried Iraqis alive in the sand, and that a man such as Demjanjuk, who as a death camp guard for the Germans and assisted in the death of thousands should go free because it happened so long ago.

Jews are not the enemy any more than Muslims - individual acts are what was on trial for Demjanjuk.

Not everything is a conspiracy theory.

so he was in the vicinity of Nazi's, so I guess that makes him an accessory to killing Jews.

By your analogy, since he was in the vicinity of Nazis that were killing Americans, we should put your father on trial for an accessory to killing Americans

That's not my analogy. an article I read said that since the man was a guard, he was in the vicinity of the killings so has to be held accountable as an acccessory, which is ridiculous To me Germany is grasping at straws to convict.

I agree with you Jason. His sentence is less than one day for every 15 people he helped kill. That is a horrible tragedy.

To watch him during the deportation hearings and the German trial he is on his deathbed. But to watch him on film between the deportation hearings he was very spry.

And that guilt is richly deserved

Welcome to America.

The self hate thing is so true.

I remember reading a survey where they asked people in developed nations how proud they felt of their country. A patriotism poll, I suppose you could call it.

Of course the US placed first all the time, but the nation that consistantly landed last place was Germany.

they did anything they could in WWII in order to survive the camps. It was about survival.

The ends justifies the means? Help kill others so I can live. That doesn't negate the fact that he killed. He could have remained a prisoner like the others and taken his chances on not being killed in the camp. Not every prisoner was killed. He chose to become an accomplice.

I am sure that not everyone thinks as rationally as you when put in a life or death situation. I certainly hope you don't ever have to make the choice that thousands made back then. I am glad to know that you would gladly take the gas chamber or a bullet so that you can feel that your death was justified.

It doesn't have anything to do with rational thinking. It has to do with reasoned thinking. He chose to participate in the manner that he did. Despite his reasons for doing so, he knew it was illegal. But in doing so, he subjected himself to the same penalties that were for the rest of the prison staff. Willfully aiding in the demise of others makes one an accomplice. He wasn't forced to act as he did, he chose to act as he did. I'm would be willing to bet there were others that were given the same choice that became his victims.

My wife is Polish on her mother's side.

Would that be the right or left, front side or backside?

He spent 99.9% of his life a free man in a free country, really? He came to America in 1952 and 34 years later was deported to Israel, and has not really been a free man since then. He is now 91 years old...let's see, 99.9% of his life... One question, are you as good at dedeucing everything as you are in math?

TO THE THINKER-318752: How can you make jokes after a post like that? Typical. You may be "the thinker", but you really don't think at all, do you?

AND TO H-3451021: You're another one with no heart. Can't you point out his mistake without being insulting? Or do you just not care what he and his family went thru?

Actually, Dumb and Biased, I do have a heart, it's Where's Waldo who doesn't seem to, regreting that a man who was never proven to be Ivan the Terrible didn't have his freedom taken from him even sooner. What don't you or any of these countless people seem to get about what if, just what if he is innocent? Both my parents and a whole lot of my family had to live through the war in Europe. Everyone suffered, not just Jewish people. Do you know anything about displaced persons (a.k.a. DP's) having to live in baracks? Being transferred from one to another every few months, like cattle? Do you think that any of those people can or would have been able to prove where they were during the war? What do you think, you can look it up in an old phone directory? Go to city hall? My mother had a bayonette under her throat at one point, don't accuse me of not having a heart. My whole life I've heard horror stories. No one forgets. You just go on. By the way, Where's Waldo doesn't say if his mother was Jewish. She could have been Catholic. Like I said, everyone suffered. It wasn't just Jewish people who got sent to concentration camps.

h-3451021

My first sentence is worded improperly. I apologize for the inaccuracy of my sentence structure, although I believe most understood the meaning. I am 60 and well aware of the historical implications of the Holocaust for the Jews and I am fully aware of the other ethnic and religious groups who lost their share of family to the Nazis in these Death Camps. My wife's 96 year old mother is Catholic as were the brothers she lost. And as far as John Demjanjuk goes, it's my opinion about what he gets. The United States wouldn't have let him step a foot on the plane to his trial in Germany if the Germans didn't have enough on him to prosecute. You seem to like to promote yourself as the ONLY blogger here with accurate information or historical fact. People just aren't as stupid as you might think they are. Save your self serving blather for the guy in your bathroom mirror.

This sounds like some rumor mongering concocted to justify your support of his recent conviction.

ROFL. Then Marry Poppins floated down and called the police. Hez...try to keep the lies to a minimum...the gov does enough of it for us all.

That make absolutely not one bit of sense. This man is old and more than likely doesn't get out of the house much anymore. I don't he'd be stupid enough to brag about something like that.

Genocide will always occur. ITs Human nature.

TO FEARLESS EDUCATOR: What makes you so sure? How do you know? Prove it otherwise.

TO MARK: Since you've already shown your true colors, I know why you don't believe it.

TO TONY: Are you kidding? You can't be that ignorant. You've never heard of serial killers bragging about their murders? People get cocky, especially after 30 years.

TO EL CHUPAB: So? What's your point? We all know that, but that doesn't mean we should just let it occur and not punish those responsible.

Let this guy live his short life in peace. Jews are a**holes like that, and they wonder why people have a dislike for them.

You will be there with him....judge jury executioner outside of the hands of God. Since you believe in hell I assume you believe in God.

Mark - If your God has such control he is a vindictive SOB. Look at all of the killing he has been perpetrating worldwide for millenia.

JeanLuc? One with bona fides would most certainly have mentioned Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians and what was done to them?

Tim ~~ This poor 90+ (as you put it) is a monster. I'm sure your attitude would be different if your parent or grandparents were killed in Nazi Germany, your sister, brother, cousin, wife, or if you had children who were gassed along with friends, and your fellow countrymen. Some families were completely wiped out.

This monster has lived free for longer than most people have been alive. How nice for him. He's enjoyed the air, the country side, his family and friends. But those who died at the hands of the Nazi regime didn't get to complete their lives, nor did their children. 90+ is old, but so what? As far as I'm concerned, they could put him in front of a firing squad, or gas him. After all, that's what he did to others. As I understand it, he wasn't "just another guard" doing his duty. He volunteered and rose in the ranks. Now it's time to pay. We all have to pay, one way or the other.

I understand your anger, however, let's face it, the "big" ones did get away. It was a war, this was a young man who I believe, if we had caught years ago; should have had many years in prison (perhaps until death if proven guilty). He is 91, let GOD deal with him. We cannot erase this horrific time in history by punishing an old man. He is on the doorsteps of God's judgement!

I am always amazed at the number of people who KNOW someone is guilty (or innocent), when in fact all they know are what they have heard from others.

Poor Hitler, he didnt want to hurt anybody.

He was a straight edge vegetarian painter. A hippie.

TommyBoy ~~ I agree when you say "Oh leave an old man alone". I believe they should put him in jail, and 'leave the old man alone'.

Winners write the history. It is ashamed that Americans allow Zionist to spread this hate sentiment. It is all going to come again. Who do you think will be attacked when the system in America collapses? Jew's heads will roll because...they are the Fed..they are the TSA... If you don't believe me go check who is the top dogs at these organizations. Educate yourself. Do you think Hitler just arbitrarily went after Jews? He had the exact same situation on his hands. He went to clean house.

now now mark. I have some friends that are jews. You dont "clean house" by killing every innocent jew in the streets. U take out the manipulative people in charge. No matter what their race. But yeah no Hitler was wrong. Maybe he started with an idea that was based in some sort of intelligence. But no that is not how u clean house and anyone who thinks it is is completely insane.

Tommy, murder is murder. It doesn't matter when it happened. If OBL were caught 40 years later, would he have been absolved from his crimes?

LEts face it Obl killed Americans, not european jews and "undesirables".

It always amazes me that the 6 million non Jews killed by the Nazis dont

even get a mention.

What about the friggin American Indian Genecide, or the millions

of dead African slaves? The JEws got off easy.

Well that is like anything as in your interpretation of History. American Indian Genecide? Dead African Slaves? Jews got off easy? go grab a book and start reading - History by the facts not ideas.

they are the Fed..they are the TSA... If you don't believe me go check who is the top dogs at these organizations. Educate yourself

Of course, me bleieve you..

100 percent.

That's why those Jew "americans" illegally gave Rogue israelo nuclear weapons. Simple.

This is obviously the thread of the Jew-haters, with the exception of a few.

TO MARK-1219747: Your blatant anti-semitism comes through loud and clear. So your credibility is non-existent at this point. Explains a lot.

EL CHUPAB: The Jews got off easy? How can you RANK genocide and suffering? You're another heartless joke.

Is there not a difference between fighting a war and running an extermination camp? What did killing Jews do to support the war effort? Or was it just a good method to cover the "losses"?

You are not thinking, thinker. It was never undoubtedly proven that he was ever involved as a low ranking guard, let alone someone who "ran" and extermination camp. There is no one left to positively identify him.

I am not saying he was or was not the man they think he was. I am saying there is no surviviing evidence.

How many elderly Germen men who did that are still living. Why don't the German courts go after them?

He was never accused of running an extermination camp. He was accused of being a sadistic guard at the camp. And there seems to be enough evidence to have convicted him.

By your reasoning the American Voting Base should be tried for the treason of Bush and Obama.

By your reasoning the majority of Americans who voted in the last presidential election should be tried for the treason of Obama and his lackeys. (I can play that game too).

Everybody makes mistakes, and in the end this man will pay, one way or the other.

Sleeping with a smile, and looking for some old man that could have resembled some one in the Nazi Party. He does not have a clue and is so wrapped up in this, that he does not even care if the guy is innocent.

Thumps Up to that Tommyboy. Well said - There's no equality at all.

Jews, trust me if they could they would line up all non jews and march them right into the oven and turn on the gas....

They are no different than the Nazi, or any other radical religious group. It's all about them and kill everyone else.

you are absolutely right tommyboy thank you very much

Hell Tommy, good point.

I relate it to socialism. Once you become a protected species you never want to give it up.

Jews are obsessed with being the victims of society even when they are not (i.e. the US). Being the victims if society is a baseline of their theology- they are supposed to be the victims of society until their savior comes to earth.

TommyBoy, I see you have absolutely no ideal what you are talking about. All Jews, (including Israelis),do not assasignate anyone today. The numbers in speak for themselves. The Palestinians constitute 20% of the Israeli population. It would not be such a high numbers if the Jews were killing Palestinians. When Israel was in control of Gaza, the Palestinian population was one of the fastest growing in the world.The freest Arabs in the world are Israeli Palestinians.

Jews have helped in cases of genocide. Israel has accepted some Bosnian refugees. More recently, Israel accepted a few refugees from Darfur.

hodaka, the Jews have no desire to stick every non Jew in the oven. If that were the case, there would be no non-Jews in Israel today.

KEVIN, Jews do not usually act as victims. They are usually very active members in society, for example, a disproportionate number of Jews have won Nobel Prizes.

The sooner we all start acting for the benefit of the oppressed REGARDLESS of their ethnic/clan/background the closer we will be to being a truly human family.

Culture is MADE UP people. It's a social construct that we use as a vehicle to live our lives, that is all.

OUR identity should be linked to our humanity because that is what we are first and foremost. A connection to our humanity is what keeps us bonded. A connection to the needs and basic rights of every human being keep us HUMANE because then we only desire to do onto our brothers/sisters as we would have done to ourselves.

Let's drop this clannish bullcr*p and evolve from this already- sounds good to me