You know what, I have a job but if a protest or rally is important enough to me, close to me, I will use my lunch or leave early and come in the next day early or work late so that I can support a cause that is important to me. Just because someone makes time to go to a rally or protest, you shouldn't assume they are unemployed.

Besides, the SlutWalk in Ottawa was held on a Sunday.

So if a woman dresses a certain way she is asking for it? What about the majority of women who are date raped by someone they know? What about the kids who are kidnapped and raped? Are the rapist doing it because he/she might like the dress the girl is wearing? Rape is not always the stranger pulling someone of the block, rape can be within families or friends of family or the "nice boy" the girl is dating.

This is bull@!$%#. Men walk around all the time with undershirts or no shirts at all. Why shouldn't I be able to wear a tank top and feel safe? A man can walk the streets half naked and no one says a thing. I wear a top that keeps me from stifling in the summer and I'm a slut. Screw you guys.

And by the way, the majority of rapists actually look for women who are dressed modestly and appear to be innocent or "decent." They like the idea of debasing those women because it seems more taboo. Where the hel do you think the librarian, schoolteacher and school girl fantasies come from? Get a clue.

EliMae

Men walk around all the time with undershirts or no shirts at all

The problem is 99% of the guys that walk around without a shirt here in the U.S. shouldn't be doing that - too much visible lard. Usually the only attention they attract is disgust from men and women. But men, usually don't care about how they look like and that's why they take off the top.

Why shouldn't I be able to wear a tank top and feel safe?

You should be able to walk like that if you like, it wouldn't get my attention at all since I don't like to stare. The problem is that most other men will give you a lot of attention that won't make you feel comfortable - which then will cause you to throw something over that tank top. Blame those sex deprived horn dogs!!

But you shouldn't feel like you're in harms way, it takes a lot for any person to want to sexually assault someone else. The vast majority of men aren't capable of doing anything other than stare. Just stay in public, well-lit areas and you'll be alright. You shouldn't feel any less safe than if you were well covered.

That's the point. They should get the blame, not me for wearing a tank top or a short skirt. Why should women have to go around completely covered for fear of being attacked? Why is it that no one like to acknowledge the fact that this is the exact same reason Muslim women wear the burqas that we are so adamantly against?

I don't mind getting attention. Compliments are always welcome, and I am not shy in giving them myself (Just this weekend, I ended up complimenting a guy that I couldn't take my eyes off of, but I did not shove him into an alley and take advantage of him against his will). Rape is not a valid form of attention, along with mugging, theft, robbery and murder.

Rape is definitely not pinned to sexy clothing. The only person I know for a fact was raped was a woman who was in her 60s when it happened. She was taking the trash out. She is not what one would call sexy. At all. Rapists are going to act on their impulses whether a person's wearing a tankini or a radiation suit.

EliMae: Horsepoop. Rape has nothing to do with sex or desire. It's a compulsion. It's a need to dominate others. It matters not what you are wearing to any degree. It simply is irrelevant to the rapist if you are even pretty or not. If they think they can dominate you, they will. Rape is about dominating and if you present a subject that looks like they are easy to dominate a rapist will be attracted to that weak-willed victim.

Very true, rape is all about some insane whacko wanting to overpower someone else. Rarely does it have to do with how physically revealing the woman was. Someone who covers up can be raped as well.

okay, my head is spinning, but i'll jump in anyway, provocative dress does not make a slut, it's what you do undressed that makes you a slut. i discourage provocative dress for my daughter, but if she chooses something "too sexy" i tell her, her clothes do not make her who she is, but it does influence other people's opinion of her, so be prepared for name calling, etc. i worked on the road with some of the most beautiful and provocatively dressed women in the world for over 7 years, and i can say with all honestly that it only made the more conservatively dressed waitress, bartender, managers, etc more appealling to me. i must ask, though, what ever happened to going bra-less, i really miss those days, oh well, i digress. provocative dress may increase lewd comments, unwanted advances and other typical animalistic male behavior, but not the unnatural act of rape. men (and women) are either rapists or not, except for the unusual instance of gangrape where one in the crowd might participate out of peer pressure, which typically results in suicide or severe mental anguish. and finally, i offer this merely as my opinion and not as an authority, unlike cerebrally superior who must be off probation again, and never learns, do not bother with him, he's just an emotionally inferior troll whom i suspect is only covering up his "poop fetish" taught to him by the abuse he endured from mommy and daddy, since he obviously is full of....poop! that's all i got ladies, so keep it up, for those of us that enjoy a little appettizer before we ask that nurse, secretary, waitress, or single mom in sweats out for a nice dinner.

I think rape can be about sexual attraction. Not all of them are cut from the same cloth. Just like any other crime, it can be about many different things. Still, the facts I laid out support your argument too: Fantasizing about otherwise "proper" women losing themselves in a sex act can be about power just as much as sexuality. It would demonstrate the power the man has over the woman's ability to control her actions.

Either way, the fact remains that women should not be held responsible for men raping them, due to the way they dress or any other behavior.

As for me, I encourage demure dressing not for protection, but because it actually holds more allure than showing as much skin as possible. Leaving a man guessing makes him that much more eager to discover what can't be seen. I realized this while seeing Sara Gilbert host SNL with a long sleeved, ankle-length, turtlenecked dress, looking sexy as hel. Men's imaginations are way more exciting than any part of your body you could show off, unless you actually are an adult film star or bunny.

I think rape can be about sexual attraction.

That's because you are approaching this from a normal mindset and thinking that sex is the expression of desire. And, as a normally functioning member of society, I applaud that.

Rapists don't think that way. They use sex as a way to express their dominance. Much like boxers use that sport as a way to express their physique but bodybuilders use competition as their way to express the same image. It's two different ways to express an image. Well, a rapists manner of expressing their dominance may not fit in your mindset.

Henry

there isn't only one motivate for rape.

The guy that jumps out of the bushs on a running trail, the guy that climbs into the elderly woman's room, the WOMAN that takes advantage of the teenage boy and the guy that drugs his dates drink do NOT all have the same motivation.

some rapes are motivated by sexual desire. some are not.

some people have sexual desire and do not have the correct brain wiring to deal with it in a normal manner. some are committing an act of dominance.

(BTW)

it is laughable that you equate rape with simple 'self-expression'. Talk about belittling the victims of rape...geez.

Absolutely. The notion that rape is only about dominance is absurd. Dominance alone doesn't explain why the vast majority of rapes are perpetrated by men against women, nor does it explain why coitus is even part of the attack. If I want to dominate someone; man,woman, or child; why not just tie them to a tree; it would be much easier and the punishment, if caught, much less severe.

I remember seeing a show a long time ago where a psychiatrist was stating that certain type of clothes are easier for some criminals to take off of a victim of rape like a pair of overalls. He said the perp could cut it off easily. I can see that.

nilj you say "nor does it explain why coitus is even part of the atack." From ancient biblical times the act of penetration was the ultimate symbol of dominance. That is why victors in a military campaign often raped the women and children and even sodomized many of the young males. That is why it is often mentioned that in prison dominant males may on occasion force the more submissive inmates to submit to sodomy or commit fellatio. It not only demonstrates their total dominance but it can even result in a bizarre kind of a bond with the victim.

Patty Hearst was repeatedly raped and abused by her captors, the Symbionese Liberation Army. After her release she commented that this constant rape eventually caused her to sympathize to some extent with her captors. Psychologists call this the "Stockholm Syndrome" I believe where a kidnap victim actually begins to relate to their captors after a time because they feel that is necessary if they are to survive the ordeal.

Some others commented that there are many motivators for the act of rape and that is indeed true. If you recall the movie "Psycho" the part played by Anthony Perkins had been dominated and possibly persecuted by his deceased mother all of his life. Consequently when he encountered someone who looked like and to some extent acted like his deceased mother he tended to want to kill them in a most gruesome way. His reason for murder was rationalized by his fear of being dominated again.

Rape can be motivated by fear, hatred, anger, and many other things but it is almost never a funtion of how the victim is dressed unless that form of dress triggers a particularly bad memory. For example if a man's grandmother used to beat him while she wore long skirts and a sun bonnet he might be triggered to rape a Mennonite or Amish lady because of the similarity of dress. It is not unlike post traumatic stress disorder in which a traumatic event from ones past triggers some irrational behavior in the present.

Interestingly clothing initially came into being as a means of protecting our bodies from a harsh enviroment and inclement weather. Somewhere along the line women discovered that by covering the critical points of interest on their bodies it tended to increase the interest of the breeding males in their population. At that moment it became "all about the tease." LOL That is when haute' couteur was born. And we men have been paying for it ever since financially and physically. HEH HEH HEH HEH

Bravo Ladies!

The First Amendment assures thes Ladies of The Right To Peaceably Assemble!

It is as simple as that! Go for it, Ladies! Go for it! USA!

Maxwell's: I think you might want to talk to a qualified Psychiatrist. The idea that rape is sexually motivated comes from a desire to rationalize the act in our own manner. Well, we can't. It's not a rational act and therefore cannot hold up to rational scrutiny.

You are right to a point: I am simplifying the motivations quite a bit. But I'm doing that in an effort not to write a 2000 page textbook. This is a discussion board after all and there is some onus on the reader to educate themselves when presented with the opportunity.

Dress up like Halloween and you are bound to attract Ghouls

Henry,

I didn't say rape (in general) was sexually motivated. I said SOME instances, have a definite sexual component.

To deny that is silly.

To say the date rapist that starts getting frisky with a willing girl, and then the girl doesn't want to go any further, and the guy doesn't take no for an answer, and continues anyway, has NO sexually based motivation is beyond absurd.

Yes there is a power play there..."I'm going to take it whether you like it or not" is there too. But if you think that case has no sexual component, then I am wasting my time typing this, because your eyes are closed to reality.

My philosophy teacher once told us that everything we do is about sex. We eat to survive to have sex. We bathe to stay healthy to have sex. We groom ourselves to be attractive to have sex. We watch the news to stay informed to be interesting to have sex. We dominate to show we are strong to have sex.

So, yes, rape is sexually motivated.

I wonder about that professor. Maybe he has to get out more, LOL.

The Beev-2396805 ~~ The REASON why this 'slut walk' came about, is because a POLICE OFFICER made a VERY unprofessional, barbaric, ignorant and insensitive comment, stating that if women didn't dress like sluts, they wouldn't be raped. This officer must be a DINOSAUR! For him to have such a mean spirited view point, tells me that he does not value women or childre, and it shows me that he feels women, children, men, and boys deserve to be raped if they dress by what HE might consider 'slutty'.

Anyone who has half a brain knows that women, children, boys AND men of all ages across the board have been victims of rape, and it has NOTHING to do with how they were dressed, and it has EVERYTHING to do with the DEPRAVITY OF THE RAPIST. The victim is just that...... a victim.

If a guy just can't "get enough", as you put it, then HE is the one with a MAJOR PROBLEM. I hope you take a step back, and look at the situation. This protest is a play on words, in order to shed light on a very serious problem. Even if someone is a slut, SO WHAT. Each of us lives our lives as we see fit, EVEN YOU. But regardless of who we are, NO ONE deserves to be raped. S-L-U-T-S do not deserve to be raped, children do not deserve to be raped by guys who can't 'get enough', women and girls do not deserve to be raped by guys who can't 'get enough', and men and boys don't deserve to be raped either. I hope you can look back at this article and read it with enlightened eyes, and a heart with understanding.

Yeah, well he may have a major problem, but if you are the unfortunate one who crosses his path, you will have a major problem. No one has the right to rape anyone else. Yes, you can dress any way you want just like in this country, you can say anything you want, but you should always be aware, there are consequences. In the case of how you dress, it will be things like how you are perceived (if you dress like a hooker, you will be subject to unwanted male attention among which will be the perception of availablilty. If you don't want men making smutty remarks or catcalls, keep yourself decently dressed. People just have no idea of class these days.

Really? And what is "provocative" to some is "buttoned up" to others. Will we have a moral police like in Saudi Arabia that will tell women what clothing is appropriate and non-provocative, and what clothing is forbidden because it may inflames someone's lust who will then be justified in touching or raping the woman, because she was flaunting her "qualities?" Anybody, man or woman, should be able to walk down the street wearing whatever they are comfortable in, without being harassed in any way. That is freedom and I thought that is what this country is all about. If you want women covered up, go to the Middle East. Have fun.

Stef,

If we lived in a morally perfect and logical world, than I would support you 100%. However, we don't. There's things that arouse the human that cannot be measured much less completely identified. With a very long story said very short, "we're all animals" when it comes down to it (me too). It's a matter of how we expose and control ourselves.

Moronic statement : There is no grey area. Just what century are you living in?? "both ways"?? To see how absurd this is, think of how illogical it would be for someone to tell you the reason you had your wallet stolen is because you were stupid enough to wear a nice set of pants...

Actually, when I travel I go out of my way to not dress like a tourist. When I have to walk to my car on a dark street I put my purse strap over the opposite shoulder and hang on to the purse and walk near to the curb rather than the shadowed doorways. When I park in a parking lot I choose a place under a street light. If I'm going to be in a bad part of town I don't wear obvious jewelry or a good watch. I'm afraid that it IS only common sense. If you dress in a way that is designed to attract attention, then you WILL attract attention, and it's not always going to be the kind of attention you wanted.

AP,

Let's be logical. If I wore clear plastic pants with big dollar bills stuffed in each pocket and walked around at night and downtown (or anywhere almost), than I would be asking for trouble wouldn't I?

@oh please - you're missing the point. Many women who are dressed VERY conservatively are raped. Grandmothers are raped. Rape is not about a woman looking provocative - it is about power and violence. While I wholeheartedly agree with your safety precautions, and could add a few more - like always have your car key ready rather than fumbling in your purse for them, common sense and practicality will not stop someone intent on violence. I don't like the way some women dress - but that doesn't mean they deserve to have acts of violence committed against them.

No, I'm not missing the point. There are two points: one) no one deserves to be raped, and two) since there are rapists out there, it only makes sense to do what you can to prevent catching their attention more than you have to.

Of course no one deserves to be raped. Of course rape happens to people who don't dress like sluts. Of course we should be able to dress any way we like and be perfectly safe. But the world doesn't work that way, and we can exercise common sense to keep ourselves safe as far as we can.

Bingo!

Thank you oh please

Princessbride, thank you. Well said. I, too, feel that every woman should use good judgment and common sense in ANY safety situation, however, rape has nothing to do with how a woman is dressed.

Instead of focusing on how women dress, how about we focus on why some men cannot control themselves? (notice I did not say all men - I am talking about rapists here) Why are we not asking why the man could not keep it in his pants? Are men (again, rapists) not responsible for their actions? This is about power, control, anger, and domination - rape is not about how a woman dresses or sex. To suggest otherwise is very ignorant, and this officer's comment was ridiculous. He is choosing to blame the victim rather than the rapist. Maybe it helps him make sense of such senselessness, I don't know.

I don't disagree with you, o please, but I do take issue with the officer's comment. We do not live in a perfect world, and we do need to take sensible precautions, but we need to be careful about blaming a woman for how she dresses. Using questionable judgment in no way condones rape.

it's not about deserving the acts of violence it's about making yourself mor elikely to be attacked. if what you wears turns someone on who is a criminal, you're more likely to be attacked than someone who wears less provacative clothing. and yes, women do want it both ways, if you don't want me staring at your ass why did you buy pants with "juicy" written on the ass?

Rape is about power, not attractiveness. And why is the onus on a woman to dress so as not to attract attention. Shouldn't the actions of the rapist be the focus?

A simple question… Should a woman have the right to walk down a street wearing clothes of her choice without the fear of being attacked? The answer, yes. Rape is a crime of opportunity, more than provocation. All men are citizens who need to abide by laws. Laws are there protect men and women. However, men and women both need to not entirely rely on laws and police officers as a sole source of protection. Self defense should be learned, practiced, mastered and taught.

Gotta love people comparing apples to oranges. There is no comparison between the Middle East and the USA. They are two completely different cultures. Even in the good old USA, we have multiple cultures.

The simple fact is, a rapist is going to go out and try to rape no matter what. But how you dress does have a consequence. If you dress in a way that is the trigger for a rapist, you are putting yourself in danger. How many times do you hear a child molester saying, "I couldn't help it, the 4 year old was dressing so sexy in the 2 piece bathing suit." To the average Joe, you want to puke when you hear that comment. I know I want to puke. But there are triggers for people. Put 100 guys in a room and parade a bunch of similarly attractive girls across them and it is almost certain they will most want the girl who is dressed the most provocatively. Some guys may want the librarian look, but most will want the wild party looking girl. Rapists are going to be similar except they don't take no for an answer.

Think of a rapist like a child. Which McDonalds is a child going to want to go into if there are two of them across the street from each other? Will the child want the one with or without the bounce house? The vast majority will choose the bounce house. If a guy sees two identical twins, but one is wearing a "bounce house," the one with the "bounce house" is the one most likely to be hit on. Anyway, I think I've made my point 100 times.

Nobody asks to be raped, and nobody deserves it. But rape victims are not just random people walking down the street. They are chosen for a reason. How you dress can be the reason, and more provocative dress is more likely to be the reason. But in the end, it could also be something as simple as the color of your hair, or the fact that you are wearing the color blue. Feel free to dress however you want, but be ready for more attention if you dress outside the norm.

More meek women are stand a higher chance of being raped than a confident woman. Ladies, walk with your head high and with all the confidence in the world, even if it is fake. This attitude of confidence will more likely make people leave you alone than try to attack you. To all women, men, and children, be safe, keep your loved ones safe, and live a blessed life.

Jim, not exactly a crime of opportunity, rather it is the product of a sick mind who is attempting to control through physical abuse/damage. At that point the rapist is the one in power, and perhaps that is the only power the rapist has in life.

This is all part of the blame the victim plank of the conservative platform. So, women, if there's a walk in your city; dress up and strut.

And, yes, if you are alone, strap on a sidearm. Learn Karate; think of cunning little weapons to wear, like nice pointy chopsticks to keep your hair up. Walk with your head up and with authority. Let the predators out there know that you are not prey and that they will be dead if they try for you. Remember, a knifehand to the bridge of the nose can kill the biggest aggressor, and of course, as sensei always said to me, "knee to the groin".

Dressing down has been happening steadily for decades in the US. Ironically, dressing has been about both modesty and sexuality. All of these "sluts" are saying that they don't dress down to sexualize themselves, it's just the fashion and what they're comfortable in. They're naive and blind if they don't think dressing down shouldnt evoke eyes looking at them and minds going astray.

Rapist, attackers, horndogs, Johns, whatever, are responsible for their actions, but there are things people can do to protect themselves from being ogled. If your intent is to be ogled, then be careful how and when you do it. If you're naive and think dressing yourself and your young girls in those outfits is just fashionable, then don't be surprised when something happens some day. Something tells me that the same "sluts" who leave nothing to the imagination would be upset if some dudes decided to walk around in the mall with just a thong on while pitching a tent. DOuble standards.

I don't like the term 'slut walk' either. If a woman in any way embraces her sexuality, she is deemed a slut? If she sleeps with whomever she chooses, she is promiscuous. BUT if a man behaves the same way....well, that's just fine. What is that?
Slut, and all the other pithy euphamisms for women are derogatory and used solely to keep us in our 'place'. We aren't doing ourselves any favors by perpetuating the stereotype.

oh please ~~ Sorry, but you do not get the point AT ALL. The RAPE of a woman, a child, a girl, a boy, a man, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THEY ARE WEARING. The RAPE is an act of a sexually deviate person, who lacks control and power in their own life, so they act out their frustration and powerlessness on a 'victim' that they feel they can control.

As long as there are people like you, who believe that on some level, the victim is at fault, ingorance of this issue will flourish. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, EDUCATE YOURSELF. Another point I'd like to make, is that if a woman who is dressed provocatively, is raped it's important to remember that it is the RAPIST who has a problem and NOT THE WOMAN, GIRL, CHILD, BOY, or MAN, who was raped

Baby you'd have to punch pretty hard on a pelvic bone to snap it in half, sure an Armed Service member could probably pull it off, but most people don't possess that type of strength or knowledge of just where the right place is to punch. The pelvic bone is pretty solid. Kick the nuts and run like hell, or jam the heel of your hand upward into his nose, quicker and more effective.

The attitude toward women is changing for the worse and it has NOTHING to do with dress.

This was emphasized a month or so ago when YALE, yes Ivy League YALE male students stood outside and chanted "NO! means YES!"

What Pigs, I have to wonder where they learned this---at their father's knee? I bet they have no Mother, sisters, aunts, daughters etc whom they value.

I'd go for the nose, myself. My four year old recently head-butted me. I was leaning down for a smooch and he jumped up and ended up breaking my nose. I'll tell you, I could not see through the tears. And I wasn't crying from the pain. It is surprising how painful it really is.

If you knee a man to the groin, it will hurt. But what if he finds the adreneline to keep after you. And now he's angrier. A broken nose is a surprise and the tears may prevent them from seeing the next blow.

I've also read that wasp spray is better than pepper spray or mace. More accuracy with a longer stream. With Mace or pepper spray you chance getting a dose yourself.

How are so many of you so stupid that you think how someone dresses in any way "attracts" rapists? There's no evidence to support that. In fact the evidence is quite the opposite.

Why not tell people to dress their children ugly because cute children might attract pedophiles? You can't compare muggers to rapists - muggers want money, so they go after people who look like they have money. Rapists aren't after sex - they attack someone they feel they need to dominate, or to express rage on someone who represents someone who they feel wronged them, or because their brains misprocess social stimuli, etc.

You might not realize it, but the very culture of "a woman dressing that way is asking for it" is EXACTLY the attitude you are accusing the rapists of having. "Oh, she's dressed that way, so she must WANT it whether she says no or not." That's EXACTLY the attitude that can create a sexual assault. So stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution.

Though I doubt you'd make a huge effort to start to dress differently if you were attracting attention from the opposite sex. It's not the attention they get that's the problem, it's the unwanted attention, and most specifically the violation of their humans rights by someone who feels they have the right to try and impregnate anyone they think is attractive, against their will. I mean if we're going to be humans we shouldn't resort to acting like monkeys.

Of course no one deserves to be raped. Of course rape happens to people who don't dress like sluts.

And here is the crux of the idea: women who don't dress like "sluts" are also raped, so is rape about how a woman is dressed or not? See, this is why the argument is flawed. If rape victims were only women who dressed in a certain way, then maybe you could make the argument that they're increasing their chances of being raped. But that isn't the case at all. Most rape victims are not dressed in a 'slutty' way at the time of their attack, so its ridiculous to try to make the argument at all that someone's wardrobe is what contributes to their attack. It doesn't, rape is about control and power. Its not about how a woman is dressed.

And women get unwanted attention no matter how they're dressed. I've been out in t-shirt and sweats, hair in a sweaty post-gym pony tail, certainly not looking provocative and have received unwanted or inappropriate attention. It doesn't have anything to do with me, it has everything to do with the other guy.

Sifu ~~ NO, NO, NO! RAPE is in no way similar to a person walking in a dark neighborhood late at night, and becomes a victim of a robbery. There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON. And it IS NOT MORE LIKELY that a woman, child, girl, boy, man will be raped because of the way they are dressed. They are RAPED because someone who is a sexual deviate has a desire to rape them. What is likely, is that a SEXUAL DEVIATE, A RAPIST will RAPE because THEY HAVE A PROBLEM. The reality is that RAPISTS are the ones with problems, and NOT women, girls, children, boys or men who happen to dress in a particular manner. ANYONE who thinks that dress is the issue, or that dress contributes IS IGNORANT, ILL INFORMED, AND DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT RAPE IS. Please people, come out of the dark ages, and into the light.

The absolute ignorance expressed by so many of these posters is astounding! Please repeat after me: What clothing a woman wears has no bearing on the crime of rape! The often heard lie that dressing in a certain way draws the attention of a rapist is not proved anywhere. The only thing a scantily dressed women gets is attention! Unfortunately, many of you repressed hypocrites can't take your eyes off the good looking woman in the room and you think it is HER FAULT! I like seeing good looking women, but it ends there. Keep your sick ideas to yourself. If you can't control your urges, it isn't the woman's fault!

Oh please-

Actually the best way to not attract attention to yourself is to exude confidence. Being a college student who does travel, and had to take a nonverbal communication class from a professor well versed in this stuff, there was a study done that actually stated the more confidence you exude in public the less likely you will to be attacked, be it robbed, raped or anything. The thought there is if your confident your not going to go down without a fight, why would you attack someone who could kick your ass?? you wouldn't. The other best way to keep from being attacked is to be aware of your surroundings!! these 2 things help amazingly!!! Attention grabbing outfits aren't bad, its if you act in a manor that allows someone to think you are weak.

And I honestly believe it is NEVER the victims fault, that is why they are called victim!!

Rob, your a moron.

Your analogy of emptying your pockets prior to going to the ghetto is totally off point...

The mugger's motivation behind robbing you is TO GET MONEY. The rapists motivation behind raping you is TO GET POWER. Do you see the difference? In the first one the precaution you take, matches the motivation of the crime. Dressing sexy has nothing to do with the motivation of power. In fact a less confident, more meek girl, makes an easy victim and is much more likely to be assaulted.

Dressing sexy is no more likely to get you raped then it is to get your wallet stolen. Zero corelation!

There can be no doubt that this is a double standard at work.

If I insisted on speaking to other people in a derisive manner, it is entirely likely that at some point, someone would assault me in response. They would legally be 100% at fault, but not wishing to provoke such a response, I routinely treat others with courtesy and consideration in an effort to head off such an occurrence. So far, I've been lucky, and I don't ever plan to press my luck.

I've seen younger people dress as gang members, then complain that people reacted fearfully toward them. Responsibility does not rest completely with the one receiving the signals - the sender needs to exercise some judgment and restraint as well.

Any man who initiates sexual activity with another person against their will (and I'm limiting this to males here for obvious reasons) is liable to be found guilty of sexual assault or worse, depending on legal circumstances which I don't claim to fully understand, since I'm not an attorney. That is as it should be. Women have a right to dress as they choose, and that is as it should be. Yet, if I throw gasoline on a fire, I may well get my eyebrows singed, and that also is as it should be. Contradictions? Only because we have removed the elements of being judicious and showing some measure of restraint from the equation. It's a proven fact that rape is much more about rage and aggression than it is about being sexually aroused, which means that the perps are not playing with a full deck to begin with - the nuances of the arguments put forward by these young ladies (I decline to characterize them as sluts, even if they may have chosen to do so themselves) are lost on their potential assailants.

There are a lot of people running around in this country who feel that the concept of freedom is their own personal toy, yet fail to extend it to others, or to imagine the ramifications of their own actions. Rapists certainly fall into this category, but don't those with the mindset promulgated in this article as well? The basic premise that any of us should somehow be completely shielded from the consequences of our own lack of awareness is lacking in persuasiveness, yet in the current climate, I almost expect to be lumped in with the racists for even putting forward that notion.

I'm not a rapist, have no use for them, and would never want to see anyone raped for any reason, but if someone demands that I express the same level of sympathy for the one who played with fire and got burned as I would to the one who was attacked while minding their own business, well....don't hold your breath waiting.

I love all of the criminal psychologists on here commenting about how rape is about power. Are you sure? So every rape that's ever occurred was about power? That's what I thought.

Just like not all rapes are of young women, or for that matter, women at all. Every criminal is different in their reasons for committing a crime. Some you can't prevent because their reasons don't make sense or are just not preventable. The point here is for women to protect themselves when they can. Don't be so ignorant as to say 'I will because I can and should be able to'. As a white male I should be able to walk through the ghetto saying how proud I am to be white - and truthfully I should be able to. Doesn't make it a good idea - and I still might be attacked either way. By not doing it though, I've limited my chances. Same goes for rape.

Okay--I'll bite Robb. Let's say that a nice-looking young man decides to run down the street in nothing but bike shorts and a pair of running shoes. Does this mean that the first group of large gay men he runs into can be expected to rape him? This will be his fault?

I think that there is some relationship of clothing to rape--the relationship is that some people are stupid enough to blame the victim if she is wearing an outfit that the rapist can claim is "provocative." Note that this not work if the victim were male, however. So, some rapists might (not convinced this happens--but maybe) choose female victims knowing that the victim has a "slutty" outfit and is not known for her chastity. It is the stupidity of others that make it more likely that the rapists will get sympathy.

So--we should continue to reinforce this idea that women who choose to dress in a way that they are told makes them look "attractive" are choosing to make themselves victims, and we make the lives of rapists easier by giving them an out? This is a good idea?

Look this is like the argument that we should not classify "sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation" among those reasons why people can be protected from bullying or other discrimination. When we create a classification of people who can be bullied or discriminated against because they are "bringing it on themselves"--then don't be real surprised when all the bullies and people who want to discriminate suddenly start claiming that the victim is "gay."

Over 25% of school children are bullied because of "sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation"--only about 4% of the population is actually gay, and most school children (even when they are gay) do their level best not to let anyone know (going so far as to bully others for being "gay" to prove that they, themselves, are not). This means that the vast majority of children being bullied for being "gay"--aren't gay. They might be socially deficient, they might be a member of a religious or political or ethnic minority, or they might just choose not to conform--but they aren't gay.

When you blame the victim, you create a set of circumstances in which it is easier for perpetrators to get away with the crime, you keep perpetrators out on the streets (or in the classrooms), and you increase the likelihood that the crime will be committed. While I don't happen to think that slutty dress is a good thing (because I think it is unprofessional), I also am not going to start blaming victims and creating a situation which encourages rather than discourages perpetrators.

You can do as you please.

Look, it is true that no one deserves to be raped and we do have the freedom to (mostly) dress as we like. Anyone who says differently is an idiot.

Granted that, I don't find the cop's comments "flippant", I find them to be common sense. You can wish the world was different, but you have to play the hand you're dealt. If you leave your front door wide open when you leave home, 1000 people may walk right by, but it's fairly certain there's someone out there that's going to rob you. If you dress very provocatively, 1000 people may walk right by, some somewhere, sometime, someone is going to rape you. Again, anyone who says differently is an idiot.

We live in the real world, not the one we all wish we lived in.

I love all of the criminal psychologists on here commenting about how rape is about power. Are you sure? So every rape that's ever occurred was about power?

Yes. When one forces an act on another person against their wishes, it is all about having control over someone who cannot defend or protect themselves from such an act. What else could it possibly be about? If you didn't want control of another person, why on earth would you physically force them into an act they don't desire?

These are pretty basic foundations of assault.

Rob...want constitutes provocative? I dress very conservatively..and for that I was a victim of an attempted assualt on a date because I looked like "someone he could take home to Mom and she would love me". He found my conservative style of dress provocative. I am sure his Mom would not have loved me because he was sent home with swollen testicles.

This is completely untrue. You are confusing desire with compulsion.

Rape is a compulsive act. It is done because the rapist feel a compulsion to dominate another. Attraction and desire never enter into it, other than to feed the rapists compulsion. In other words, a weak-willed and submissive female would be more attractive to a rapist simply because they present an appealing target for domination.

How a subject dresses has nothing to do with their usefulness to a rapist. They are only useful to a rapist if they can be easily dominated and subjugated.

Women who dress extremely conservatively night be called "prudes." They can be raped.

Women who dress kinda averagely might be called "mousy." They can be raped.

Women who dress stylishly, straight out of Vogue, might be called "rich biatches." They can be raped.

Women who dress in cleavage-showing tops and a short skirt might be called "sluts." They can be raped.

Which one of these styles do you blame for the rape?

Slut, old maid, whore, granny, plain jane. We label women with these terms. A label doesn't mean it is OK to rape her.

Comes down to some rapists go for a type. But let's change the conversation from "don't get raped" to "don't rape."

So basically you are on the side of rapists. Each person is responsible for his or her own actions. TO say that a man cannot control himself around a woman dressed this way or that is full of it. What about the summertime when all clothing is revealing. Should women have to wear puritan dresses and veils all summer to prevent rape?! What about the majority of men that can "control themselves?"

We are each responsible for our own battle between right and wrong. It doesn't matter if a woman walks by you naked and sweaty it doesn't give you a green light to rape her, ROb99, although rapist everywhere are thankful for your understanding and support. Your mom would be proud.

Before clicking 'expand' on your comment it read as "From a human perspective, nobody asks to be raped and nobody deserves to be raped"

And if you were a decent human being worth the life in your body that is where it would have ended.

Wow, I opened a can of worms

Okay, I'll repeat it and elaborate. Rape or physical touch is completely unacceptable and criminal if the one touched didn't want it. That's very clear. What isn't clear is wearing sexually suggestive attire and expecting nobody to comment or even say something you don't like. You can't have it both ways when it comes to verbal commentary. If you think you deserve it both ways, than you are heading for trouble. I wish it were not the case but that's life.

Rob99, perhaps to you it is the case, but certainy not for me!

I have the answer to the problem of rape for people like you...Why not start a campaign to stop the fashion industry from producing the kind of clothing that you feel may cause some violent response by another....no more t-shirts, shorts, see-through tops, short dresses ( after all these may be too short).....Yes people do dress, some to be admired, like movie stars, and the like....it seems you are concerned more for the criminal than for the victim...you seem to be saying don't tempt the rapist, and you will not be raped..experience does no agree with such a premise...I do believe we, all of us, should take precautions to be safe...such as one post did advise, since violence is possible in many cases, but as to this thought that dress causes rape, I simply don't agree that is true in most cases...

What the heck could a rapist see in the dress of a 60 year old woman who happens to be wearing a housedress, while emptying her household refuse.... I know of This case...RAPIST ARE CRIMINALS...ALL OF THEM...please! Think again!

I don't wear provocative clothing myself. Being in my 40s, the stares I would get would be more along the lines of "why does that woman think she can pull off the miniskirt and tube top."

I'm reading these comments and wondering, what would be considered provocative clothing on a man. Personally I like a uniform. Fireman, policeman, Marine (in his dress blues), cowboy hat.....
Sorry, anyway, the difference is, I wouldn't think of raping a man that dresses to attract attention. I wouldn't think of violating them in any way. But if I did, the man would be the victim right? No one would say he was asking for it. Would they?

lola ~~ Lola, Lola, Lola. A woman after my own heart. I just LOVE a man in uniform. And I would have the same question as you....and that would be; if a man or boy were dressed in a Boy Scout uniform, Marine, Army, Navy, or in a school uniform, shorts, thin tee shirt, bathing suit, business suit, jeans, sexy button down shirt, no shirt etc were raped, would he be considered the victim, and would he be asking for it because he looked 'good'? Very interesting. After all, each and everyone of us, male and female, have our own idea of what we personally think is sexy and what is attractive. What I think as sexy may not float your boat at all, and visa versa.

Ladies...and gents. Please think back thru the years of "sexing" everything from cars to yogurt. Those Maybelline eyes to Victorias Secret models flinging everything they have to the left and right. Jessica Rabbit, Jessica Simpson, that Ga-Ga thing, Madonna. It is all about sex, it has always been about sex, and it will always be about sex for a long time. (Right Bogart and Bacall?)

No, it's not right. It makes as much sense as women acting like princess' and queens at their wedding, "MY Big Day." And those boys at Yale just may have been talking about those OTHER boys at Yale, I'm just sayin....

Yes, Rob: It is cut and dried.

Nothing a woman wears on the street -- including hot pants, underpants, or no pants at all -- gives anyone a right to touch her, much less rape her. None.

Cut, dried, end of case.

Lorene - back at ya. Don't you love a good debate?

One of the comments above -- somewhere up there -- asking WHY women would dress to be attractive at all. I've been wondering and here's what I think.
Procreation. That's NOT to say we deserve to be violated. Survival of the fittest. For women, that means indicating that we are receptive to mating. Which may bring about offspring. The prettier we are, the more attractive to a mate for procreation. Definitions of beauty vary widely, but the result is the same. Men with the muscles or the strength to survive -- be it with intelligence or physical strength. Or hip flexors....

Rape is actually found throughout the animal kingdom. A human woman's 'virtue' is a product of society.

Now...men...and I mean those of you that place the onus on women for the justification, supression or determination of your baser insticts...do you really want to be an animal? Or do you want to rise above the level of tree frogs in the jungle, dolphins, spiders and water beetles?

lola...a lot of women today are Frogs, Roaches, Spiders, and Snakes as well....especially the ones who feel entitled and even the Feminist, or the cheater or deceiver.......everybody is equal down here...problems or no problems..putting the emphasis on gender like race..gets us nowhere...

True. BUT...in our human society, a man acting like a roach isn't deemed a 'slut' or worse, is he?
And don't we want to be better than mere roaches?

And in regards to the Feminist remark...

Because women's work is never done and is underpaid or unpaid or boring or repetitious and we're the first to get fired and what we look like is more important than what we do and if we get raped it's our fault and if we get beaten we must have provoked it and if we raise our voices we're nagging bitches and if we enjoy sex we're nymphos and if we don't we're frigid and if we love women it's because we can't get a "real" man and if we ask our doctor too many questions we're neurotic and/or pushy and if we expect childcare we're selfish and if we stand up for our rights we're aggressive and "unfeminine" and if we don't we're typical weak females and if we want to get married we're out to trap a man and if we don't we're unnatural and because we still can't get an adequate safe contraceptive but men can walk on the moon and if we can't cope or don't want a pregnancy we're made to feel guilty about abortion and...for lots of other reasons we are part of the women's liberation movement. ~Author unknown,1987

If you folks take a minute and read or listen to what you are saying you are making a point that I have been trying to make for a very long time. In our society or any mysogenistic society we tend to make too many excuses for bad behavior. In some cases the rights of the criminal exceed those of the victim. It is not just in the case of rape either. Robbery, assault, murder, there always seems to be all manner of excuses for criminal behavior and this is especially true when the victims are women and children. It is almost as if there is some sort of a subconscious respect for brutish and animalistic behavior.

We humans like to consider ourselves 'civilized' yet when it comes right down to it we are often still functioning in a world that is largely dominated by the physically strong. One faction would gladly allow the sick, weak, and infirm to simply perish without so much as a moment of sadness. On the other hand some of us feel that once we manage to make it into this life we deserve consideration and respect even if we are not the strongest and most aggressive kid on the block. Interestingly some of our best minds have come from some of the most physically weak among us.

The one thing that completely blows this whole argument about how one dresses totally out of the water is the primitive tribes of Africa and the Amazon basin where everyone lives their entire lives either totally or almost totally naked. Also we often find the highest level of compassion for the weak among these people. Respect for the elderly and their wisdom and for the infirm who are given the opportunity to contribute and feel personal worth by taking on the more menial chores for their group like grinding grain into meal or making baskets or pottery for their group. Rape is reserved only as a means of dominating their enemies and bringing them into the fold of their tribe in order to broaden the gene pool.

When I see documentaries about these so called primitives or read about them I often find myself questioning just who is the most civilized, them or us? They live in harmony with nature while we destroy it. They live relatively peaceful existences while we seem to be forever at war with something or someone. They generally work hard from early childhood and maintain healthy bones, teeth, and complexions while we tend to be lazy and don't take good care of our bodies.

Then, as in certain parts of Africa, along comes technology and so called civilization and suddenly we have massive outbreaks of civil war, ethnic cleansing and genocide, and I have to wonder whether social progress is a blessing or a curse. In every case when advanced civilizations collided with a more primitive civilization the results were always catastrophic for the less advanced group. In other words it was survival of the strongest. When the Spaniards invaded South and Central America it devastated the indiginous cultures that had existed there for centuries. Likewise when Europeans began migrating to North America it was the beginning of the end of the American Indian culture.

My point in all of this is that at some juncture in our evolution we are going to have to come to terms with the fact that we must assume full and total responsibility for our own actions. Also we are going to have to find a way to respect and honor all living beings among us and even find a way to deal with the unstable. Sure it would be simple to just exterminate them as some past fascist governments proposed but that would be voluntarily abdicating our responsibility to humanity.

To put this into perspective, one thousand years ago a rapist was simply another animal forceably breeding with a female of his species. Today we live under considerably more social constraints that include all kinds of rules of social behavior. So for us to continue to evolve it means that we must understand and deal with even the unstable among us. Otherwise our only choice is to resort to the animalistic approach of just exterminating the undesirables among us. And that choice then begs the question of "just who makes the decisions about who is and is not desirable?"

i see i created a big Subject...haha God bless you all this fine weekend in America

good chuckle.

This whole thing begs the question: If you have sex with a prostitute against her will, is it rape or stealing?

It looks like someone else watches the gradual report. :D

In your case "if it quacks like a duck" it is an ass. The word "NO" should be the only dress code needed to put a stop to unwanted sexual advances. When are you people going to get it! Rape is not a sex act... it is assault with the intent to degredate and humiliate the victim. Any female has the right to dress in any style she choses, as long as it doesn't break public decency laws and you males have the right to look as much as you want BUT DON'T TOUCH !

Well, if it rapes like a duck, it should have its balls ripped off.

Susan, what about don't "say" or don't "comment."

Well Susan, as an American I have the right to walk from one end of Iraq to the other, maybe even pick up some sand for my volleyball pit - doesn't make it a good idea. I too think "no, don't cut my head off" should be universally effective but well, come back to planet Earth Susan. This isn't a perfect world so stop acting like it is. Until we start taking our genetic defects out behind the shed things like this will not slow down.

Well John that was spoken like a true fascist. Simply exterminate all of the undesirables among us right? You would agree then that we should execute all of those diagnosed with PTSD because they might have a flashback from the days when they were defending our country and kill someone. It also sounds as though you advocate the extermination of an entire religious group because of their extremist beliefs.

Well I will give you this, your ideas certainly fit in with population control. After we exterminate all of the undesirables like the guy who cuts me off in traffic all the time there just won't be enough of us around to squabble with. LOL And just think. Every policeman could then be judge and jury on the spot. We would save a fortune on trials and the like. Oh and wow every time a kid gets mouthy in school the teacher could just cap him or her right there on the spot. Yeah..... emotionally satisfying perhaps but not very practical. LOL

I like duck skirts that come up to the quack.

Most of your rapist do not do it for sexual pleasure, they rape someone for the feeling of power and dominance over the person, im not a psychiatrist but I doubt the clothing affects that much.

Justin - clothing, or lack thereof, can make a difference with how easily a rape can be carried out.

Letusreason: Put your burka away--this is the US. If you can't keep your hands off a woman, don't blame the woman.

elizabeth, no one said it was the only reason. you're just being ignorant now.

If you guys are so certain, show us evidence that clothing has ANY correlation with rape - academic studies, things like that.

Letus,

Perverts aren't rapists - different thing. Rapists are violent offenders - how sexual a woman appears has nothing to do with it.

And even if it did, you're arguing that 'this person has a mental disorder that makes them think in this horrible way, so women shouldn't do anything that might make mentally unbalanced people think a certain way'? What kind of ridiculous argument is that? Should we stop buying nice cars because there are car thieves? Should we stop swimming because that's just provocative behavior for sharks to come eat us?

A provocatively dressed woman does attract attention, including perverts.

Women attract attention from men, it doesn't matter how they dress.

Letusreason ~~~Yes indeed, let us reason. There is NOT a grain of truth in the fact that women are responsible ON ANY LEVEL, for being RAPED. NO really does mean NO. The point of the demonstration, was to draw attention to the fact that dress has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how a rapists mind works. The demonstration is meant to bring attention to the fact that people who RAPE are deviates, and they are the ones that have a problem, and NOT the victims.

Let's see. A rapist sees a 90 year old woman shuffling down the alley, and a scantily clad young woman going the other way. Sure, he's going after the 90 year old.

MNWriter, I just wanted to point out that someone isnt considered a "rapist" until they perform said act. They have to start somewhere and I'm guessing that they start with perversion.

To everyone who has put word in my mouth, there is nothing in my statement that implies that the victim is responsible for the rapist or the rape.

I simply pointed out the obvious that an attractive and sexy woman gets attention. Does that create a rapist? Of course not. Could she be noticed or stand out in the mind of a rapist? Absolutely.

Generally, I advise my daughters to dress conservatively when visiting an area that is unfamiliar to them.

A demonstration in support of mindless political correctness will not have any impact on a pervert or rapist.

Let us reason: you don't have much ability in that dept. do you? Try and grasp this: the rapist doesn't care who he rapes or what they're wearing, as long as they can be overpowered. Try to stop projecting: this isn't about your sexual desires and inability to contain them (unless of course, you're a rapist.)

Letusreason:

Let's see. A rapist sees a 90 year old woman shuffling down the alley, and a scantily clad young woman going the other way. Sure, he's going after the 90 year old.

Yes, he would. The 90 year old woman is far less able to protect herself.

That. Is. The. Entire. Point.

If you can't stand what the stores sell as fashion, do what my mother did and learn to sew.

That is the most impractical suggestion ever. The vast majority of people have neither the time nor the talent to sew entire wardrobes for their children. Most likely, the child would refuse to wear any of the clothes anyway.

Ambernova, if you're a kid and you could either go to school naked or go to school in what mama made at the house, which do you think is gonna happen? And if your (no not you specifically, just the general you) kid is that much of a brat and dictates how the family runs someone isn't being the parent.

Clearly, Elizabeth Marie, you don't sew, because if you did, you would know that fabric is hella expensive... so how is someone on unemployment going to afford it?

Also, the unemployment rate is 9%. Which means that 9 out of every 100 Americans who are looking for work are unemployed, NOT the "vast majority".

If those children have been taught to behave properly and show some respect for their parents rather than been left to become spoiled, pampered, molly-coddled monsters, then they will happily wear the beautiful creations that they can help to design and make.

And then they can be "happily" bullied and shunned by the kids at school. Do you even remotely remember middle school?

Just for the record. I have no problem with the idea of making sure your kids aren't dressed too provocatively. But there's plenty of solutions less extreme than sewing all their clothes yourself. There's this wonderful thing called the internet, which I'm sure can give you access to clothing stores with more sensible options if all the stores in your area are unacceptable.

Sorry, Elizabeth, no one learns to sew anymore. Sewing your own clothes is more of a hobby now for some people, its not how they get their clothes all the time. It just isn't practical or cost-effective to sew your own kids clothes. And whoever said that fabric is expensive is right, it is. (I only know because I actually do sew and used to make my own clothes, but since my kids came along I just don't have time to do it and its faster and cheaper to buy clothing.)

Janeinthisworld ~~ True, true, true. Fabric is just as expensive as going out and buying a new outfit, even if the outfit is on sale at one of the discount outlets. I love to sew, but haven't done so in a number of years. The only way I'd actually sew now, would be because I would want something totally different, and unique with different material than what is on the retail rack. If you can sew, and you do it well, then by all means DO IT, or alter the clothes you purchase off the rack. I've done that as well. Whether you purchase off the rack, or make your own clothing, it can still be 'slutty'.

Brina: yes there are inappropriate clothes, but plenty of appropriate clothes is you know where to look. That's irrelevant to this issue: rape. A sack cloth isn't going to protect your daughter from being raped.

"What should" and "what is" are two different things.

People also shouldn't get robbed if they walking through the most dangerous neighborhoods in America with a hand full of $100 bills in clear sight.

It isn't blaming the victim if you warn others to avoid becoming victims themselves.

we don't make laws on the basis of how many morons can't control themselves around women. As I say..that way lies the burka and we don't do burkas here.

People also shouldn't get robbed if they walking through the most dangerous neighborhoods in America with a hand full of $100 bills in clear sight.

The difference is that the robber is prosecuted even if the victim was flaunting $100 bills. Whereas in rape cases the clothing of the victim is used to argue that she actually wanted to have sex, so the rapist wasn't really raping her. Despite the fact that wanting to have sex with a person of your choosing does not indicate that you are willing to have sex with every random guy the walks up to you!

Is a woman allowed to dress provocatively for her husband, boyfriend, girlfriend etc? Can she go out in a public place with their special someone and be sexy for just them only, or is that something that HAS to be left for the bedroom?

Exactly right, ambernova.

Hands off the Skanks, then.

Yes, rape is about violence, not sex. However, victims can do things that either increase or reduce their risk of being selected. In a perfect world, a woman could walk in any neighborhood, at any hour, naked without increasing her risk of becoming a victim. And in a perfect world, home and office doors wouldn't have to be locked and you could leave the keys in your car. It's not blaming the victim to point out ways that risk can be reduced.

This is exactly the issue here. Rape is rape, regardless of what the victim was or wasn't wearing. Saying anything to the effect that the victim shouldn't have been wearing this or should have been wearing this is ridiculous and counterproductive to our society. We need to educate ourselves about these issues. Rape is a horrible, nasty crime that no one ever deserves to experience, yet somehow a police officer gets away with saying she shouldn't have dressed like a slut. This is just going to perpetuate the thought that women are property with whom we can do whatever we please. Thank you to those of you who have a maturity level which allows you to think and act like a civilized human being. For those of you who don't, please grow up and learn from those around you.

However, victims can do things that either increase or reduce their risk of being selected.

The problem is there is no specific way to determine how to keep from increasing a woman's risk of becoming a victim. Women are at risk, period, and it really doesn't matter what they wear. They can be 21 year old, scantily clad drunk girls at a club or they can be 90 year old grandmas in housecoats watching late night tv at home. Both are at risk. In fact, the 90 year old is probably more at risk.

@dayrunner, I am glad that you understand ..It's not a perfect world. Rape is a Crime, anything (each individual) can do (male or female) should always

A. Be weary of their surroundings.

B. Know who you are with, (if they ditched you at the mall, the park, or elsewhere, ) chances are at party/club/ etc your gonna be ditched, DO NOT count on them as your back up plan.

C. Don't be afraid to leave when it feels (wierd, wrong, unsettling) Those are human intiuitions, unlike the Horror Films, PEOPLE LEAVE when the Walls bleed, or the table moves. (radical examples but used on a small scale.)

D. Don't be escorted into a restroom, a hotel room, a condo, dorm, frat party, by security guards, or police. (Think Tyson, Rothliesberger, Las Vegas Navy convention 1993 etc.)

E. Self-Defense training is always wise. You don't even have to pay an instructor anymore with all the internet availability, Remembering to SING when attacked. (If you don't know it already, feel free to search it online)

for those thinking the 90 year olds getting raped. I would think those are very similar if not more likely DATE RAPE (SR HOME, INTERN, Etc.) most people that attack seniors, unfortunately, just want their welfare check, or their cash.

Your thinking is so shallow. Yes, it's the rapist's fault. Can we say "duh"? What you guys leave out, is that, in a "random" crime, location is always a factor. If you're not in that place, no assault happens.

To avoid the vast majority of rapes (or muggings, or whatever) stay away from certain places, and certain types of people. Not 100 percent, but nothing is.

"To claim a woman's dress lead to her physical assault and rape is to claim that men have the same lack of control as dogs and other animals,"

The mass media has spent the last 25 years or so brainwashing everyone to think just that. Should it be at all surprising that a lot of people buy into it? What the cop said was stupid, but as some other commenters have pointed out there's a huge difference betwen the way things ought to be and the way things are. There's a flip side to this too--the courts tend to believe the woman if she brings charges against someone she knows even if there's strong evidence to the contrary. Frankly, I as a man would have to be a fool to engage in any sort of relationship because the female could screw me over at will and there isn't anything I can do about it. And heaven forbid a man gets raped everyone doesn't just ignore it, but laughs at it since he's obviously doing it wrong and should be mocked. Again, it's not right but it is what it is.

The problem with your statement is that you are generalizing men. The police officer was saying to protect women from SOME men who CANNOT control their inhibitions and assault women, try not to be noticed. He is correct. If you know who the rapist is, are you going to flaunt you attributes in his sight? No, of course not! The problem is, we do not know who they are and 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Everyone knows not to flash their money in public for the threat of being robbed, but women should showcase their sexual attributes? This make no sense whatsoever! So what this says is that women should protect their money more than themselves.

>>To claim a woman's dress lead to her physical assault and rape is to claim that men have the same lack of control as dogs and other animals, and is nothing more than blaming the victim for the crime.<<

Actually it would be claiming that men have less control. Male dogs don't attempt to breed unwilling females and canine courtship can be involved. The natural world is not a place where universally might makes right, and female choice as the driving force behind sex has been shown in many species.

Bed bugs and bat bugs, now they are creepy. They will actually pierce a female's abdominal wall to deposit sperm. So in this case, you'd really be saying men have as much self control as blood sucking parasites.

And that kind of salty talk should be reserved for the defense attorneys who use these arguments in rape cases.

Bill: You're an idiot. Rape happens to women however they're dressed.

GMAFB!!! who wants to reclaim the word "slut" What are these ppl protesting? The cop may have been tactless with his comment , but the theory holds true. If you don't want unwanted sexual attention , don't put out a big advertisement for it.

Gosh AP, dont you understand! if you leave your key in your car, are you asking for someone to steal it? No! Does it have a higher probability that it would get stolen? yes! So women do call attention do themselves, if they dress in a provocative way

If you don't want unwanted sexual attention , don't put out a big advertisement for it.

That's like saying "if you don't want your car stolen, don't advertise that you want to sell it." Women want to date men of their choosing. So, to some extent, they all want to be noticed.

Bill, Baby,

Both of you need therapy as to your unresolved issues regarding women. This isn't about "well in a perfect world women would never be raped". This is about your unconscious hostility toward women linking their dress to violence committed against them - don't you realize that that's exactly the way a rapist would think? "She's dressed in a sexy fashion, so she wants sex, and if she says no she's just trying to play innocent so I'll just take it." Don't you realize you're reasoning the same way the rapists do?

Get a grip. This isn't about ideal worlds - this is about literally telling girls that dressing to express their sexuality puts them at risk of getting raped, which is not accurate. Rape statistics do not show a correlation between dress and rape. It simply isn't true - except in the minds of people who think the way rapists do. Like you two. A woman dressing a certain way is "asking for it". That's the argument you and others are making here. Think about that.

Don't you realize you're reasoning the same way the rapists do?

In essence, they are rationalizing and justifying the rapist's thinking. Sad. I thought we were in the 21st century.

Baby: you're having a bit of trouble getting this one aren't you? They are protesting the very use of word to educate folks like you that this has nothing to do with how one dresses.

Cerebrally Superior & all you MENTAL MIDGETS like him who think you absolutely MUST dress provocatively must have a reality check first. Let's perchance have a look at all those adorable newborn or 6 mo old that dress like sluts......well they must be with your twisted mentality. those hot little chicks are ALSO the victims of rape - what's your deviant explanation of that perversion anyways??? or those hot 90 year old babes are still making EVERYONE hot just for people like you -> is that how you TRY to absolve yourself of those charmingly vile kinky fetish sexual thoughts???? Please, Please just SHUT your hole & don't share anymore of your UGLY AND DARKLY IGNORANT FANTASIES.........

Lead that person not into temptation, should a woman chose to dress as a attention monger, she can't control the actions of a person (be he depraved or not].

Jeffrey: Spoken like a Taliban not like an American. We don't codify actions here that hold women are just walking 'temptations' to be hidden away. You are responsible for your own actions (remember kindergarten: hands to yourselves).

"the way I dress is not an invitation to violence" - This statement is ridiculous.

Dress like a clansman and walk through the middle of the streets of rough areas of Detroit and then use that excuse.

Dressing like a "slut" gets attention...both wanted and unwanted. It is not an excuse for people to rape someone, but it most certainly gets the attention of people who may be inclined to. Simply stating that fact doesn't support rapists.

"the way I dress is not an invitation to violence" - This statement is ridiculous.

Says more about the way you think than the way she does.

Bill: What about this is so very, very tough for you to understand?? You are making excuses. You do not get to harm another in this country, no matter how they're dressed, or what neighborhood they live in, or what they do for a living, or how much you approve or disapprove of them. Really quite simple. (and wearing a sheet over her head all day isn't going to protect a woman from ever getting raped either.) What utter nonsense.

Bill is not talking about a person gets to victimized another person by the way they dress. But dang, reduce your chances of being victimized by some idiot. Some people have a lack of self control, some people are just plan evil and they go after the ones that attracts them. a Modestly dress woman gets more respect than a "slutty" dressed woman any day. You can act like there's no difference all you want, but the truth is the truth.

Severed head... Cool name!

Bill, Ted,

We'll say it as many times as we have to. THERE IS NO CONNECTION. Rapists don't go after women who dress a certain way. Only people who argue "a woman dressed that way is saying she wants it" think that way - like the two of you.

Dressing like a "slut" gets attention...both wanted and unwanted. It is not an excuse for people to rape someone, but it most certainly gets the attention of people who may be inclined to. Simply stating that fact doesn't support rapists.

No, it just rationalizes and justifies it. It encourages the incorrect perception that a woman is to blame for a sexual assault on her.

We need a big dose of maturity, as a little child , a little girl would dress up to be noticed. Now all we hear as adults is look at ....me me me. Grow-up.

You're the one in arrested development. Hands off! Hands off! Hands off! See? Grow up.

How about guys just keep their penises in their pants and stop raping women? See? It works that way too!

Rape is not about sex. It's about control and power. Did you know that handicapped women are often sexually abused, I bet they aren't going around "asking for it" in their wheel chairs...

Let's have some decorum and common sense with your penises. Stop putting them where they aren't wanted.

Maybe you're the one who ought to think twice before justifying rape. (your mama would be proud?)

Again AP, stop thinking people are trying to justify rape, no one is. But dang stop showing everything. Again evil people pray on the easier and weaker one's

Dick, Ted,

Again and again, we go around on this. Obviously the rapists are the problem - then why is any of the energy going toward telling women how to dress? Shouldn't we address the problem? Just maybe?

um....maybe they just acknoweldge reality..yes...they are the problem...and yes..they do exist....so yes...dont open yourself up for attack...thats like saying a grizzly shouldn't attack you because you should have the right to walk in the woods...get real....

Again AP, stop thinking people are trying to justify rape, no one is. But dang stop showing everything.

You can't make a statement saying people aren't trying to justify rape and then in the next statement justify rape. Do you not see the conflict in your two comments?

umm, no conflict at all. Statement number 1. If a person shows all their money, they shouldnt get robbed. If a woman walks down the street half naked she shouldnt be assaulted. statement number 2. There are thieves, robbers looking for prey. There are people with deviant minds. All looking for easy prey. So dont drawattention to yourself. Besides, your beauty should only be reserved for your husband.

Those statements are totally conflicted. Either a woman is to blame for her attack or she isn't. You can't say she isn't to blame, then cite what she was wearing as cause for her attack.

The fact is what is considered "provocative" is highly subjective and based on personal opinion. Drawing attention to yourself is the same. What might not draw attention for one person could be red flags to another.

Besides, your beauty should only be reserved for your husband.

Again, another statement which encourages incorrect perceptions. There is no reason a beautiful person "should" not present themselves as beautiful if that is the way they want to express themselves. "Should" is a word of judgement, and, again, subjective. I am healthy and strong and work out and take care of myself, there is no reason I shouldn't dress in a way that I think reflects that, regardless of what someone else thinks I "should" do. And if I do, there is no reason for some predator to think he can force himself on me. The two are completely unrelated. It has nothing to do with me, it has everything to do with the other guy.

TED-1947471

Besides, your beauty should only be reserved for your husband.

Yeah - and us women folk should be kept in the kitchen, why even go outside? We belong indoors, making babies and pies!!!!

You probably cried when they passed the 19th amendment.

Ted: you're a Taliban troll right? "beauty reserved for your husband?" What century are you from?

Ted: What about women who aren't married yet? How do you propose they find a suitable mate? arranged marriages?

Personally, I think that we should all just stop wearing clothing. Tell me I am dressed as a slut then. I am not dressed at all! Why shouldn't I be allowed to display what I like about my body? My husband certainly doesn't mind. It boosts his ego to know that I come home to him and no one else (and also, i like it when he gets looks in his Army uniform, but has MY arm and no one else's).

Also, I think then that men should be banned from wearing AXE, Old spice, and any other cologne that is marketed as making you more attractive to women. Wearing that cologne, and those tight shirts that show off your muscles- oh and styling your hair to say that you take care in your appearance- all invite you to be raped by the gaggles of women advertised by men's product commercials.

Have a daughter, wait until she is a teenager or older, tell her "dress the way you want to", and then give her a kiss on the cheek as she goes out the doors looking like a prostitute to a party where she'll be boozing it up.

Sounds like wonderful advice.

I totally agree with you, Bill

Bill & Baby: rape is not about sex, rape is violence. Rapists attack old women, little boys and girls, comatose patients in nursing homes and hospitals.

Rapists are not 'provoked' to violence by style of dress. They are violent people.

Deb, babe, no matter how many times you say rape is not about sex, people just aren't gonna listen. It's a sexual act, covered in sex top to bottom, but you are very right, it is also about domination and power.

Bill & Baby: morons both of you. Lord help any women in your vicinity from your "paternalism".

Because calling a woman you don't know at all 'babe' isn't patronizing. Seriously. I doubt she is your babe, and we are not at a truck stop. Show some class and don't give pet names to someone you are arguing with- it is demeaning and seems like a cheap attempt to put her and by extension her arguement down.

BlahBlah Blah - if you're referring to my babe... I'm just being friendly... granted from the many many posts on here, not many people know how to be friendly. That was no argument, I was agreeing. P.S. I'm a woman. Women usually aren't bothered by other women calling them babe and I didn't see Deb complain. If she does I'll apologize to her, not someone on their soap box.

"Rape is not about sex."

What does this statement even mean?

Rape IS sex. It is sex forced upon an unwilling person.

Nobody tried to justify committing rape. (If you think anybody is saying that, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.) They're just pointing out that certain behavior can make it more likely that a rapist will attack you.

I realize it is probably just a case of semantics but 'sex' is a tender, loving, caressing, moment of communal pleasure. Rape is nothing more than a one sided assault in which the perpetrator forces his penis into the female mouth, vagina, and/or rectum for the purpose of complete domination. In some cases it doesn't even involve the perpetrator's sexual member but rather some implement or another. No, rape is not sex. It is forced copulation and humiliation often based in rage and disdain for the female of our species or in the case of homosexual rape the unfortunate male victim.

As for the 'date rape' example the perpetrator neither loves or respects the victim. The whole date scenario is just another pretext to get the victim into a vulnerable situation. It is premeditated and calculated in order to permit the attacker to strike just as certainly as the one who lurkes in a dark alley and jumps his or her victims as they pass by. These people are probably the worst because they use deception and chemical weaponry so that the victim doesn't even have a fighting chance to avoid the assault.

In any case, I still maintain that rape in any form is not a sexual act in its purest sense. It is a sexually oriented assault meant to force complete and utter submission of their victim. Come to think of it, this is not unlike our Congress when they pass laws aimed at forcing us to comply with their ideas of morality or completely destroying our economy in order to feather their own nests. LOL OMG!!!! Does that mean that conservatives are rapists? :=O

Are you subscribing to the absolute nutty notion that dressing in ways to get attention doesn't often bring unwanted attention?

Bill, Bill, Bill........don't try to confuse them with facts.

It's true that rape is not usually a crime of unstoppable sexual desire- it's about the power. However, when a woman dresses like a low-class person, it takes power away from her and gives it to those who deem themselves to be "better" than she. Therefore, dressing provocatively can, and usually does, attract unwelcome attention. As my mother told me, "Don't advertise what you don't want someone to have". Don't get me wrong; I don't believe women should have to cover themselves from head to toe to keep from being raped- after all, Muslim women are raped quite frequently, so that obviously doesn't work. However, if you advertise yourself sexually, someone will be more than willing to take you up on your "offer".

"Low class person?"

Yes. Low-class. As in "prostitute", "hooker", etc.

Dani, I know you aren't suggesting that only upper- and middle-class citizens are deserving of the respect of NOT BEING RAPED. Surely in our egalitarian society, the proletariat is just as deserving of respect and dignity as the bourgeoisie?

Dani, there is nothing low class about the world's oldest profession. It is even legal in parts of Nevada. And to say that these women are lesser is very disrespectful of our gender. Everyone needs to work and no one needs to make moral judgements about the work that is chosen.

Note: I'm not talking about sex slaves here; just one's normal sex industry worker.

Dani,

Women who dress in a sexually expressive way are no more likely to be prositutes than women with blonde hair or women with large breasts. That's not a real correlation - it's a prejudice in your mind.

Bill and Dani, both of you,

Get a grip. Dressing sexually isn't "advertising" anything, and rapists don't look for women dressed a certain way. They look for women that suit their tastes. Why would they bother to rape someone who looks like a hooker because they might be a hooker - why not just pay them and avoid the costly court battles and prison time? We go around and around on this in our society

Why not just pay them? Some men don't like paying. They just take. And if they perceive that a woman is indeed advertising her wares, they will feel that she's up for the taking. Dressing "sexually" is indeed advertising- it's advertising one's availability and desirability. If you're not sexually available, don't advertise. The fact that rape is wrong doesn't mean that baiting/teasing isn't wrong.

And yes, prostitution is a low-class profession. Being legal makes it neither right nor acceptable.

And, finally, replying to Rick- nowhere did I say that "low-class" equals poor or common. "Low-class" also indicates crass behavior. I'm sure there are plenty of people from higher socio-economic levels who behave in low-class manners.

Dani, I am subjected to advertising all day, every day but I have the self control not to purchase everything that I see. Having said that, not everyone who dresses "sexually" (a very subjective term, btw) is advertising anything. For many it is simply their personal tastes.

Let's say that a woman does dress sexually to advertise that she is sexually available. Okay, does that mean that a man can grab her and rape her? Does that mean that her "advertisement" means that she wants to be raped? Ultimately, the responsibility is on the man to control himself. If I am walking down the street dressed "sexually" (in someone's opinion - not necessarily mine) that does not give any man the right to pull me into a vacant building and rape me. I don't care what he thinks I'm advertising. He is free to ask me out or let me know that he is interested in me, but I have the right to say no. Always.

[Some men don't like paying. They just take. And if they perceive that a woman is indeed advertising her wares, they will feel that she's up for the taking.]

Again, this is solely the man's responsibility to be under control. No man has a right to 'just take'. Dressed sexually or not, a man is not free to rape a woman. Self-control is the key - I practice it every day when I don't smack the daylights out of some of my co-workers.

There is simply no justification for blaming a woman for being raped based on the clothes that she is wearing. The rapist bears 100% of the responsibility.

Good discussion, thank you Dani.

Dani ~~ You are in serious need of some sex education. Get a grip, and get informed and up to date. Not only are there lots of studies done on this subject, that actually disprove your way of thinking, there are many women you can talk to who have actually been raped (I am one), and could help enlighten you, and bring you up to date.

Trust me when I tell you that a persons CLOTHING has nothing to do with another person's deviate criminal behavior. It's the deviate criminal's own pathetic mind set that they look to, that gives them the permission to RAPE old women, young women, children, girls, boys and men and we might as well include animals (bestiality).

Bill: talk about nutty notions...women who don't wear what you define as provocative clothing don't get raped? Where the heck do you get these 18th century ideas and who the hell raised you?

Nowhere did I say that dressing like a slut actually does give permission for a woman to be raped. What I said is that a woman who is dressing like a slut will make some men believe that it gives them permission to rape that woman. Read my posts a little more carefully.

There are different types of rapists who work on opportunity and have different likes. The vast majority who are raped are younger women, and having some sicko get horny because he sees half-naked women walking down the street obviously doesn't decrease the odds as rapists often work on impulse. You're argument lumps all rapists into one force and defies logic. You're defending something that is not defensible. If you want attention you may well get unwanted attention. Rape is a crime, but one can also decrease the odds that it will happen to them.

Somehow being immoral is global I guess. Has been since forever.

Really, Jim? You've never heard of a rape in the USA?

So, you don't think people in the US ever blame women for being raped? Have you been reading these posts? There are a ton of them saying that yes, if women are dressed "provocatively" (whatever definition that is) then they are responsible if they are raped. I'm sure many of these posters are from the good old USA.

So when I'm at the store, and I pull my wallet out to pay the cashier, OBVIOUSLY I'm just asking to be mugged. Why should anyone who might want to rob me be expected to restrain themselves? I DID let them see the money in my pocket.

Jack,

If you think a woman dressing "sexy" is baiting you to rape her, why are you thinking about raping her? Why do you feel "baited"? What does that say about you?

"Baiting"? Really? Is that honestly what you think is happening? Since when did dressing sexy become synonymous with "baiting"? If you think women dress sexy because they are "baiting" men into raping them, then you have serious issues.

Its crazy....I don't understand. I don't dress the way I do because I'm trying to "bait" anybody. Neither do other women.

Jack ~~ You say BAITING? I have seen many women in my day dress in a very provocative (baiting??) manner, at concerts, in bars, at work, on the street, at the grocery store as well as in their own homes. SO WHAT!! No where on her forehead do I see a neon flashing light that says RAPE ME YOU FOOL.

~Rick~Jane~MN~I really like your comments.

Jack ~~ Indeed women do like to entice men, and in doing so, they show off their 'assets'. SO WHAT!! WE ARE SEXUAL BEINGS, and there is nothing wrong with sex. All species do things to attract the opposite sex.

I do recognize that there are both men and women who do not respond appropriately with the opposite sex, but there is no way that this makes it OK to assault, force yourself on, rape, injure or endanger a woman, a girl, a child, a boy or a man in the process. If YOU find that you are unable to control yourself under such circumstances, then it is YOU who has a problem.

The cops see this crap all the time. His comment comes from a position of knowledge, knowing how rape victims dress. Probably because of the large number of rape victims who are prostitutes. Just because someone is a prostitute does not mean anyone has a right to violate their most basic right.

Most cops are not the brightest bulbs in the store. They have a linear thinking that does not allow for any lateral, tangential concepts. They see "A", decide the problem is "B" and never move beyond it. It's safe to think like that when you are a cop. They also have just started integrating most police forces to include women (too weak), people of color (well, color), etc. They really really want it to be the way it was: white males in power with all their little aphorisms being true.

Jack,

There is no statistical correlation between manner of dress and rape. Prostitutes are raped so often not because of any sexual aspect or dress, but because criminally speaking they are the safest choice because it is highly unlikely that a rapist would be prosecuted or convicted in such a case (which in and of itself shows the outcome of the arguments you and others are espousing here).

JACK ~~ You are so ill informed............if a prostitute is raped, RARELY will she report the incident. And if she does report the incident, the DA (or attorney of her choice) is bound by law to prosecute the alleged rapist to the fullest extent of the law. The only draw back I would see, would be if YOU WERE ON THE JURY.

The comment from the cop in question, does not come from knowledge as you have stated, but rather, from his IGNORANCE and PREJUDICE. From my point of view, and my experience in working with sex offenders, he (the cop) most likely, (as probably is the case with you) does not really like women, and views them as mere objects or possessions to do with, as he pleases, and not found to be worthy of the same rights that men would be privy to.

The original incident happened in Canada where possession of handguns by average citizens are illegal.

@fsilber Actually I believe shooting people is wrong. Do you go around shooting people a lot? Why do you want to hurt people?

Elsbeth, if I have a gun and someone is threatening harm to me in such a way as attempted rape, you better believe that I 100% support shooting someone, 1st in the balls then in the face. Guns can be safe and used for positive purposes as long as the owner takes responsibility. And yes, there are always ppl who don't respect guns in the manner in which to keep ppl safe. But I did watch a cop litter yesterday.

What is sad is these are the same people who dress their children like prostitutes. They don't let them be children and have a child's life. Nice role models all.

The people saying "dress like and do what you want" are giving bad advice.

...because Bill and Jack are the arbiters of all that is moral or permissable (and, I suspect, "holy"). How this got into a sidebar on dressing children, I'm not sure. The original point of contention was adults' freedom of expression.

Or perhaps we should not let the sexually repressed dictate fashion or behavioral "norms". Go, American Taliban!

jhoopy56, I am not the arbiter of what is moral or permissible. Society often is. And we live in a society where bad people often prey on women who dress in a particular way.

So do the following for me:

Dress like a nazi soldier to some kind of holocaust remembrance event.

Dress in a robed KKK outfit and march through Memphis.

Claim that being dressed that way is your right because who is anyone else to dictate fashion.

You bring attention on yourself and while a rapist is ultimately responsible for their actions, people can reduce the chances of being raped by acting in particular ways.

Feminist and bleeding heart ideology is severely flawed thinking.

jhoopy. Do you understand hypocrisy? If you tell me how to think and act you are doing the exact same thing you are falsely accusing others of doing?

Nice role model. Hopefully you will remain in your cave and not bother civilization with your lack of wisdom.

we live in a society where bad people often prey on women...

...yes! Yes! He's getting it !

...who dress in a particular way.

Well just damn. So very close. See, Bill, it's the guy who's bad here, and...

But BTW, interesting metaphor -- equation of Nazi dress with sexual provocation. Hey, to each his/her own, I suppose...

Jack:

Yes, I understand hypocrisy. I suspect, however, that you might want to touch up your grasp of its definition. Still not sure what the whole "role model" thing is about. Or perhaps you think that all adults should conform to your notions of fashion?? Odd, that...

Bill, with your comparison to dressing like a Nazi and going to a Holocaust rememberance event, are you suggesting that women can avoid being raped if they just stop going to rapist conventions dressed like rape victims? Maybe we should work on eliminating the rapist conventions in that case.

It is a misconception that a victim's dressing provocatively influences a potential rapist's decision to assault her/him. Appearing vulnerable or defenseless at a given moment is what attracts rapists to their victims. So a more 'conservative,' 'demure' woman might appear more vulnerable or weak to a rapist than a 'slut' in thigh-high leather boots. Don't forget that elderly women and grandmotherly little old ladies are raped ALL THE TIME. The 'attention' they get from their attackers is because of their perceived vulnerability. What's more, it's an an unquestionably harmful, degrading, destructive misconception that absolutely DOES benefit rapists, all the time, quantitatively at trials. A very common strategy in the criminal defense of date rapes is to try to establish that the dress of the victim indicated they were consenting to sex. For example, a sorority girl gets raped by two frat boys after a drunken party. Their defense is she consented, "just look at herAnd little halter top and mini skirt." Never mind that that's what all the girls in her sorority wore to the party, perhaps it was even mandated by the sorority (they do do that). And date/acquaintance rape is the most common form of rape by far.

Wrong area

People have a right to express themselves and dress how they feel. That does not excuse or justify another individual's violence. Besides, dressing "slutty" does not cause rape because rape is not about sex, it's about power. People who are prone to rape, will rape regardless of what their victims are or are not wearing.

Y equals Quantity B squared minus 4 times A Times Y all divided by 2 times A.

Or, B plus A divided by the X times A equals the angle of the dangle.

I guess if we should be able to express and dress how we feel, then I, as a man, should be allowed to stick my penis, or any other parts of my body, out in public in any woman's face because its how I feel. Of course she couldn't complain about assault or violence because I'm just doing like she is doing. Expressing myself! Right?

In fact, now that I think about it, I should be able to do this in front of children to, Right?

I think I like this new level of expression this movement is asking for.

I guess the only real question on my mind is, at what point does any of this violate someone else?

VIOLENCE is about VIOLATING someone in some way, Right?

So, how do we define a violent act? Keep in mind that many woman like being treated rough and VIOLENT in their sexual intercourse, and this is common knowledge and expression OF WOMEN to their male audiences all over the Internet in pornography.

Also, many women like to use the word NO, when sexually role playing with men, and also even when they are not role playing, but they simply know it turns their partner on. I wonder if these kinds of sexual expression should be made illegal in order to curb those instances where the woman really meant NO, instead of YES?

I think women have a responsibility to teach men what they really want in their interactions with them, and what their communication really means.

Right now as I see it women are playing a double standard, and are blaming men for the outcome. I think this is women's power play against men, to somehow hurt men for reasons unknown. Maybe they just think men are at fault for the problems in the world, and this is how they want to hurt men as payback. This double standard is what I call an act of violence against men psychically and emotionally, and women shamelessly and recklessly push this influence into the public eye where young males are trying to learn about their own sexuality. What women are teaching young males is that they want to be desired and touch, but with no rules of expression, leaving these young men to figure it out on their own.

Honor means not deceiving anyone about your intent, by using words that express counter meaning to your intent that you openly express.

As I see it, this movement proves Women have NO HONOR!

no one said action X is fine and dandy. but person Y should not be blamed for the heinous and sometimes violent actions of group A

Jhoopy

If I choose to go to Juarez Mexico, and leave the tourist areas, and I get shot or kidnapped, will you blame me? Will you blame the cartels?

Hopefully you will blame the cartels.

But will you think I was foolish for taking such a risk? Will you think that I should have avoided wandering around Juarez alone? Of course you will.

The cartel's SHOULDN'T hurt me, but we all know going to Juarez is a bad idea, just like dressing in a 'hot' revealing outfit, going out alone and accepting drinks from strangers in poorly lit bars.

This isn't a matter of blaming women. It is a matter of saying 'hey, if you want to dress hot, be smart, stick in a group'. Just like if I go to Juarez, I should be smart, and stick with a group (preferably locals) and not go to the bad side of town.

@PoliticalTruth: No, you're an idiot. Do you see in the article where it mentions exposed genitalia? It doesn't?

Okay. So, to start with, your analogy is completely false. Then you cut in with that typical misogynist bullcrap about how "BDSM exists, therefore most women are submissives ('cause I totally see it in porn, which is obviously a good representation of real life), therefore rape=sex."

So now you've effectively turned this into an issue of misandry, which is the misogynist's favorite pet topic to turn FREAKING EVERYTHING into.

And because you've so OBVIOUSLY proved that women, as a whole, victimize men, that means this protest is "dishonest," as you put it, which means that you're totally not being a douchebag when you come into an article about slut shaming & say women have "no honor." You also don't sound like someone out of a cheesey 50's movie.

And, naturally, as I disagree with you, I'm either secretly a woman or a "brainwashed mangina." It obviously has nothing to do with your comment being a pile of non sequiturs.

Agree with ol' Billy Jenkins.

Some people are not very tactful (like the cop) but I think the intention is perhaps to keep women out of possible trouble, I am not sure.

I do think many men see it as an invitation (or perhaps use it as justification) to be sexually aggressive with a woman when she dresses in a certain way. Is it right? Is it logical, even? Is it legal? No, no, no. But it seems to be more that way than the opposite. And even when a man doesn't go as far as raping (that is the extreme,imo) most men, and even women, see women who dress provocatively (relatively speaking) in a different and negative light.

Sex is a touchy subject with humans, especially when women are involved. Such an interesting phenomena and the reasons for it are many-fold and a topic of much debate (about why exactly this is the case, I mean).

Now, having said that, have there been women who dressed conservatively who have been raped? Yeah, I am positive of it but, like I said, it's a touchy subject and I'll leave it at that.