Go ahead and waste your time praying just so that not one cent of my taxpayers dollars is used towards your foolish beliefs.

Ok wingnut.........

Atheism is not a religion!!! Religion is a belief in a God. I am an Athiest and proud of it. I am also an American and proud of it. I should be able to practice my non religion as much as you practice your religion. Keep it outta government and in the church where it belongs. FFRF does not represent radical extremists any more than the christian churches across America represent radical christian extremists. BTW I was raised catholic........it only took till I was around 12 to question the religion.

i was raised muslim. when i went to college, i became an atheist. i realized "oh shi*, i am just part of a boys club, a political movement, and things ppl believe because they need a god, gods, or magical ideas to help them understand life as if it were the middle ages all over again." um, yeah. I HATE RELIGION and even more than that, i hate that my tax dollars go to fund these people's beliefs/programs.

any coincidence that America's day of prayer lands on Cinco de Mayo? Tonight I will pray that I do not wake up feeling hung over.

And who stops you from "free expression" of prayer? What you are really demanding is the institutionalization of prayer--a "DAY of Prayer" brought to you by the government. That's the very antithesis of what it means to be an American. That's nothing worth celebrating. I hope this nonsense is overturned once again.

Chris-1722418, Sorry, but you are wrong. Atheism is a religion by definition. Some of these apply. The give some church examples but the meaning can apply to any group.

re·li·gion

lɪdʒən/
Show Spellednoun

1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5.
the practice of religious

Atheism is a religion like baldness is a hair color.

I notice most those against a Day of Prayer have said nothing but hate. I thought liberals were all about tolerance. If you are so tolerant, then you would be acceptive of Americans who trust in God to have a Day of Prayer. If shows liberals are only want people to be tolerant of their way of thinking as the old adage goes, my way or the highway.

AMEN!

Oh the irony of scir91onYouTube's post. He goes to a secular college and gets indoctrinated and apparently brainwashed into the humanistic religion which is supported by tax dollars.... and then his very post decries the same.

LOL! Thanks for the good laugh. :D

. Atheism is a religion by definition.

Not hardly. Atheism is a religion if not collecting baseball cards is a hobby.

Atheism IS a religion. You believe in it, don't you?

Maybe you should read up the topic before showing your lack of subject preparation?

Atheists take absolutely nothing on belief or faith. We require evidence for what we accept to be true. If a proposition (such as a god) lacks evidence for existence, then we simply do not accept that it can be said to be true.

villian, nobody BELIEVES in atheism. It is, by definition, a lack of belief in religion.

Scripture coming to life here on Newsvine.

You either believe there is a god or you believe there is not a god. Both sides require a BELIEF.

A thinking man will ask himself: "What if I'm wrong?"

If the believer is wrong: nothing happens.

If the non-believer is wrong: that's eternity in anguish.

(I use the term 'believer' losely in this analogy, plz bear with me as I try to over-simplify... as it takes more than mere belief to be saved. Even the demons believe in God.. and they shudder)

It's your choice to believe what you wish, we have that free will to do so. But just because you dont believe in God, doesn't make you immune from the consequences he warns us about and gives us example after example thereof throughout verifiable history.

You owe it to yourself to at least READ the book and consider it.

Everything you do and most of the decisions you make is based upon a belief. Religious belief or religous unbelief is your actions based upon your opinion. Religion is man's opinion of god. That's why there are so many religions; it coincides with opinions, not fact or truth. You are entitled to your opinion.

I think it would be appropriate, if the President must encourage people to pray, to do so in a silent prayer. Personally, I think it is a very foolish law which contradicts our Constitutional separation between religion and government, and I'm quite sure that any prayers made due to government suggestion would be taken by any existing god with a grain of salt!

Oh, man, villain, Pascal's Wager? Really? LOL I'm not even going to go there.

And you need not exhort me to read the bible. I've read it thoroughly and refer back to it often. I read all religious texts though I'm currently studying mahayana Buddhist sutras. There isn't one "verifiable" thing "throughout history" in the bible. I'm not even sure what you mean by "throughout history".

National prayer day is on cinco de mayo. Good, I'll pray all the illegal Mexicans go back to Mexico.

I don't think that is what God had in mind for us to do.

It is humorous, though.

Which ever atheist said to go ahead and pray as long as your tax dollars aren't paying for any of it.... Well, I resent my tax dollars going towards abortions every single day and going to lazy selfish people who just mooch off the American people every single day. I think I will spare some for the ONE DAY of PRAYER! If any of my tax dollars are being used for the National Day of Prayer, it sure is nice to know a few cents of MY tax dollars are being used for something I believe in for a change.

You scream your dis beliefs and you are tolerated, so you should also tolerate as you expect to be tolerated. It still works both ways.

If people want to gather in prayer in public they have as much right as the atheist gather and the gays gather and so on and so on. Just don't be part of it like others don't take part in what they don't believe in or agree with. You want prayer and believers banned because they disagree with you???? That's quite hypocritical and selfish.

If the National Day of Prayer were mandated, it would be a legal issue. That it is so strongly encouraged is problematic.

However, we also have days on which we celebrate militaristic events though many people are pacifists. We celebrated Columbus day, though many Native Americans consider that a day of mourning. We celebrate Martin Luther King Day despite the many, many racists who do not want to do it (Arizona only very recently recognized it).

It is offensive to atheists to be encouraged to pray. Atheists are not religious--thus, their lack of belief is not a "religion" except to those who centralize religion and want to see religion as a defining characteristic. One might just as easily use the word "atheist disbelievers" or "atheist nonconformists" as to call them "religious"--people who define the world in terms of their own beliefs see others as the opposite of themselves and not as a unique thing that does not stand in relation to them.

However, it is pretty much impossible to have any kind of a day that someone isn't going to object to on some basis. As long as prayer isn't mandatory, and as long as (and this is what I think is problematic) some gesture is made towards those who differ, it doesn't seem like a huge issue to me. I think we have bigger fish to fry--the continued existence of a virtual police state, for example.

Ian &all those who say the Bible is not verifiable. There are soooo many prophecies in the Bible that have come to pass as well as historic claims made by the Bible, some of which have only recently been verified. One example is the existence of Pontius Pilate. Until the latter half of the 20th century, no proof was ever found of his existence. People used the lack of documentation of his governorship to discredit the Bible. BUT a arena was recently unearthed and the dedication written in stone stated that it was a gift to Herod from Pontius Pilate.
As one poster stated "If the believer is wrong: nothing happens. If the non-believer is wrong: that's eternity in anguish." Actually, even if we are wrong, most practicing Christians have better marriages and happier families than non-believers & people who say they believe but don't act on that belief.
Oh, and prayer works.

I think the National Day of Prayer is a good idea as long as it remains voluntary. I'm a Christian but my favorite cousin practices no religion. We don't talk about religion in my family (cuts down on fights since it's one of the most contentious topics-but we talk about the other one, politics, all the time-what gives?), so I don't know if she's an atheist or an agnostic, but I let her believe as she wishes and she does the same for me. If the Day of Prayer becomes mandatory I will protest on her behalf, because she doesn't force her beliefs on me, so my beliefs shouldn't be forced on her. I may be rambling a bit, but I'm just really fired up about not making the Day of Prayer mandatory.

Prayer is for believers not atheists, therefore the Day of Prayer is not trying to encourage the non believers to pray at all. It is there for those who choose to participate in it. Choice, isn't that part of the American way for ALL or is it just for some?

Interesting that Lucy promotes "choice" when it comes to participation in a government sponsored day of prayer but not when it comes to the entirely legal, personal, medical decision of abortion (per the Hyde amendment, your tax dollars do not go to pay for abortion). I might object to my tax dollars being used to engage in war but that is a constitutionally permissible power of government, whereas promoting religious belief is not. I don't want "prayer and believers banned" Lucy, I just don't want my government promoting religious belief because it goes against the Constitutional separation between religion and government. Pray if you want, believe what you want...just don't use the coercive power of government to promote religious opinion (that prayer is useful or that any supernatural being exists).

b-89753, nobody argues that the bible describes some people and events that existed at the time the book was written. And I have no clue what you're talking about in regards to Pilate. Nobody ever doubted his existence. The Romans were great record keepers. We have a lot of primary sources for his existence as opposed to the almost no primary sources for Jesus himself. The same applies for Herod. I don't get your point. Obviously I'm referring to the fantastical and supernatural events of the bible and the fact the writers espouse the exact level of scientific knowledge of the time. Meaning, the espouse all the factually wrong things you'd expect and no "divine" knowledge.

Secondly, there hasn't been a single "prophecy" from the bible that's ever come true. Give me a break.

And Pascal's Wager? You do realize Pascal meant it as a mathematical thought problem not a proof of God. It's useless as the latter as it is rife with assumption. Which god to worship? The OT god who is jealous and childish? The NT god is just a bit less so? Thor? Ra? What kind of worship is right? Orthodox Jew? Catholic? Presbyterian? None of the above? Why would an omniscient being need worship? Wouldn't it know your heart anyway? What if you are incapable of belief? Would a jealous god punish you for lying to yourself? Do I have to be a creationist or can I use my brain? Then there is the inherent problem of value. A life spent shackled to a limiting belief system against your better judgement to finally die and there be nothing is a supreme waste of the only time you had.

Pascal's Wager was philosophically torn apart as soon as posited it. It's a great game theory problem but it has no value beyond that.

Also, prayer DOES NOT work. This has been proven by so many studies now it isn't even funny. Or, I should say more clearly, it doesn't work for anyone but the person praying because it is a good relaxation technique and is equal to non religious meditation in that regard but in double blind studies it has been proven to not effect anything outside of that.

Lastly, I've already posted psychological studies earlier. Check them out if you desire and you'll find your suppositions on "happiness" easily called into question.

Ian you are making up the studies thing. Seriously. There was one study that msn showed us demonstrating it worked. And again, you are wrong. Tons of prophecies have come true. Especially with Egypt.

And actually, there ARE records of Jesus. Look up Historicity of Jesus. You might learn something for once, instead of copying other people's bogus claims.

Please, read a book before your arrogance consumes you. Or maybe it already has consumed you, and I am wasting my time?

Amen Kelly, prayer is the only hope for our country and world, when prayer was taken out of school look at what happened to our schools and now taking the ten commandments from the courthouse, look at our justice system?? For those who don't believe in prayer I will pray for you, I've seen it work many times in a very powerful way that can only be explained because it was prayed over, God BLess America!!

Yes, taking prayer out of schools is exactly what's wrong with them. You are an idiot.

I totally agree with Josh-Xo42

For those who don't believe in prayer I will pray for you,

Praying for someone against their will is spellcasting. I wouldn't advise doing it if I were you.

Land on your head at some point, american spirit? that has to be even dumber than the hypocritical unsubstantiated claims that there is no god.

(in order to know something isn't, then one would have to know ALL that is, and thus ironically be god himself, thereby disproving their own statement)

@villian

Ok...so the claim that there is no god is the unsubstantiated one? As opposed to the claim that there is one? Congratulations villian157, you are also an idiot.

Sure, you can't prove that there isn't a god, but you can't prove that there aren't ghosts and leprechauns either...

If I talk to nothing and something happens, who gets the credit since I am the only one there?

I have seen over and over the presence of God and His Son, Jesus. The Holy Spirit is my comforter. I am not the same person I was 20 years ago. Could I have done this? With what? I am weak, but God is strong.

You can choose to not accept Jesus, that is the free will God gave you. I don't call people names. Why do you?

Pardon me for being ignorant, but I am absolutely stunned @ the hatred that appears to be jumping out of my computer screen here with the topic of our National Day of Prayer. Kelly, yours was the first spot I read that wasn't spewing hatred and I jumped at the chance to add my two cents to your positive note. How unfortunate that so many of those posting here seem to forget that our country was founded - by those believing in God - to provide a safe haven for religious freedom and the tolerance of same. The continual denial of and subsequent removal of God from everything public has helped to weaken us as a society and a country. It amazes me that less than 5% of the citizens as a whole are the ones protesting the loudest; makes one wonder just what it is they are fearful of. It's time for the 95% majority to tell the 5% minority to get over it and get our country back on track.

Wow, you are delusional. If I speak to thin air and something happens, I call that coincidence. And I don't resort to name calling for personal gratification; if you truly believe that there is some madman living in the sky/cosmos that controls everything that happens in your life than you are in fact an idiot.

Josh, to whom so you refer?

Its comical to read Josh's posts. He has absolutely zero theological understanding of scripture and yet he tries to make the case for his personal opinion over and over again.

Josh, you're pretty adimate about your unprovable position. Are you always this dramatic about things you dont know about?

An atheist is someone who says they don't know god and gets mad at you when you agree with them. (I agree- he doesn't know God) LOL :D

Ok ok, I'll admit that I do derive some enjoyment from making fun of other peoples silly religious beliefs.

@Deb

That's pretty accurate. I don't doubt 95% of the people in this country believe in god, and that is what I find so sad. I guess all that really says is that we have a lot of really credulous people living in our nation. Or maybe I should say sheep.

@countrygirl

You

@villian

you misspelled adamant..at least I think that's what I believe you were trying to say. The rest of your statement is too incomprehensible to bother with.

What is sad Josh is your alternative. It really is. An empty shell of empty intellectual maybe's. You have just set yourself up as a god to call people sheep or whatever else your starving ego can supply.

@Matt

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" - Socrates

So I should make things up like say, heaven? Because that sounds a lot better than me dying and embracing nothing? So what you suggest is that I delude my mental faculties with fanciful notions of god, heaven, angels, and the belief that my existence is of significance? Yes, I'd much rather live in a fantasy than...you know...real life.

You can think, feel, believe whatever your heart desires. Freedom of will. Why would I "suggest" that you delude yourself? You don't agree with other people so in your eyes they are sheep? What are YOU suggesting? Let me ask you your own question. Do you beleive that your existence is of significance?

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good.

Psalm 74:18 Remember this, that the enemy has reproached, O Lord, and that a foolish people has blasphemed Your name.

Proverbs 12:16 A fool's wrath is known at once, But a prudent person covers shame.

Proverbs 20:3 It is honorable for a man to stop striving, Since any fool can start a quarrel.

Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But he who heeds council is wise.

Romans 1:22. Professing to be wise, they became fools.

Proverbs 10:18 Whoever hides hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool.

Ecclesiastes 2:14 The wise man's eyes are in his head, But the fool walks in darkness.

No. My existence, OUR existence is of little significance in this universe. I would concede that we are unique lifeforms, but of little importance in the grand scope of things. I would surmise that this is the reason that most people turn to religion. They do not want to accept that their life has no meaning or purpose. They live in made up "truths" that are more convenient to them. This makes them sheep in my eyes.

I don't assert to know anything about our existence because such things are beyond our understanding, but I can sure as hell tell you that that garbage printed on any religious text is exactly that, garbage.

@countrygirl

religious text is man made and is therefore invalid. Which makes your argument invalid.

atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

countrygirl: why don't you quote these "scriptures"

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3

Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15)

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22)

could it be because these, and others, show the bible to be an evil murderous tome not worthy of serious consideration in a civilized society?

Josh - I'm not trying to play games, but you have changed from no significance, to little significance. Little, is some. It's something. There has to be a reason for getting up in the morning other than you or someone else making your bed. No one, and I mean no one, can be any more unique than you. No one else thinks your thoughts or looks out through your eyes. What a great thing!

Josh-X042, if you don't believe in God then all text is man made and therefor by your definition invalid.

If people want to believe in something what does it matter to you. It seems to me, by looking at the comments, that the people that don't believe in God are getting really upset about other people's views and resorting to name calling.

If you wan't to complain about something complain about something that is worth while like why tax dollars are spent on the day of pray.

They are the word of God. If I called them Scriptures (all God-breathed) would that make you happy?

I think it's funny how everyone posts on here getting so hot headed. Do you really think that if you call someone an idiot for their beliefs they're going to go "oh yeah, you're right mr. internet person that I've never met... Guess I'll stop believing in God now". Everybody has their own beliefs and you're not going to change them through petty comments on a news page. Whatever happened to people respecting each other?? Respect--- it's a pretty cool thing, you should look it up.

You make a valid point burdy. But the end result of respect is you get the respect you give.

Josh, I know that between my Christian beliefs about the world and what happens after death and your atheism, one of us is right, and I think I'm the one who's right, but I'm willing to accept the possibility that you're right. I also agree that the people who seem to blame all America's problems on removing prayer from schools are idiots, and I apologize for them, the Dobsons, Westboro Baptist Church, and everyone else who gives Christianity a bad name. My friendly advice is that you have some good points, but most people won't listen to you is you express them in a hostile manner, as you have been doing. Please don't attack me for giving my advice. I'm just offering help so your opinions can reach the largest audience possible.

2lib4u,
There are portions of the Bible that deal w/ war, death & destruction, some of it prophetic, some of it historic documentation. But a far greater portion of the Bible deals w/ love and ethics, consideration for others, living.

That's right, the world should dance to the tune of the disgruntled. As to prayer, they can and should pray when and wherever they want, quietly and to themselves. When the prayers take over entire city blocks, stop traffic and commerce then those prayers need to be re-considered. In London, New York and Paris the Muslim community uses these prayers as a means of asserting superiority of numbers and imposing their beliefs over an entire community. If the Christians were doing this there would be massive outrage.

As to athiests, want some proof here otherwise you're just whistling in the dark like the prayerful folks whom you condemn.

@ Huey: I'm not a big fan of Dobson personally, but he has a PhD in psychology from the University of Southern California, and served in the faculty of the university's Medical School for 14 years. But let's not let facts stand in the way of your own personal bias, ignorance, and intolerance.

So you have a pipe-line to God and I don't ?

What are you a bigot ?

mygirl, you are proof positive that religion is nothing more than a tool to assert (force) someone else's beliefs onto others.

National prayer day is for all religions. Not just the one(s) you approve of.

Dear Robert:

News flash. You can have a dozen degrees and still live in a cave. Just because you jumped the hoops out in California means you got a DEGREE. It does NOT mean you are EDUCATED.

I approve of no religion, and don't give a fat rat's thing what religious people think of me.

Grow up.

I believe that James Dobson focuses more on homosexuality than the Bible does. But it is inaccurate to assert that he is uneducated and stupid. He has a PhD in psychology from the University of Southern California and served in the faculty of the university's Keck School of Medicine for 14 years.

I notice most those against a Day of Prayer have said nothing but hate. I thought liberals were all about tolerance. If you are so tolerant, then you would be acceptive of Americans who trust in God to have a Day of Prayer. If shows liberals are only want people to be tolerant of their way of thinking as the old adage goes, my way or the highway.

Al, I consider myself more liberal than conservative, please don't lump people together and generalize about them. I am ok with the Day of Prayer. Huey, name calling and hate makes you look uneducated. Disagree with Dobson and religion but the name calling, come on. NYMike, I haven't seen many religions that force anything on anyone. Matter of fact most churches I know of don't even force their own members to go to church, so I don't think they try to force non-members.

In reference to James Dobson being vocal about homosexuality, what is your problem with that? The Old Testament said they should be stoned to death. Which would you prefer: talk or stoning?

if you aren't stoning you are in violation of the scriptures, and therefore going to burn for eternity...or that's the bibles stand on it. personally i would prefer a National Day of Rational Thought. but that's not likely to happen. the only thing jesus saves, is preachers from having to get real jobs.

My pastor has a job. It is being killed by the great recession. The only thing God has for him to do is feed His sheep.

I prefer to love homosexuals. It's less painful than stoning.

Huey, chill-out man. It is OK for someone to think different than you.

L.J. Rhodes, because praying and doing something are mutually exclusive?

Bonnie, you left two blank posts. Are you trying to say something? If you are, type it in. If your computer's malfunctioning and posting random blank posts, no biggie. I totally understand.

Duval,

Imagine having a really large, heavy box, and asking someone to help you carry it somewhere. Now imagine the person you ask saying, "Okay. I'll pray for you," then praying to some alleged higher power to give you the strength to move the box. How stupid would that person look? And how lazy and useless?

Well, that's exactly how stupid, lazy and useless people seem every single time they pray for anything or anyone. Whether it's to "help" someone carry a heavy object or find the money to pay for a life-saving operation for their child, it's all the same. A complete lack of real action.

Really chris??? You're that upset about a national day of prayer? Does it cost you anything? other than your sanity? I swear... it's no wonder this country is going in the crapper. People get bent out of shape about the stupidest things. It's always the "it's all about me" crowd. Keep screaming loud enough chris.... I'm sure the morons in DC will be happy to give you your own special day.

whenever there is litigation and court rulings, yes, it has cost us.

Chris... I just talked to the President. He says you can keep your $27 a week you pay in taxes and that he will pray for you!

@ron.....thanks for the chuckle. Made my morning

chris, you already have a special day-on april 1st

National athiests Day is April 1 - every year. AKA April Fools Day

Chris

You've already got 364 days of non prayer. Why be greedy?

its called April Fools day

Psalm 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God.

Your day is April 1st, April Fool's Day.

No one is forcing you to do anything. Get over yourself. Pray to Satan or the trees or the earth or do nothing at all for all I care. Why do you care if and what I pray to? There's a whole month dedicated to African American culture "National Black History Month". I don't cry because I'm not of that descent and can't participate in it. But the fact is, just as African American culture is part of our nation's strong and diverse history, SO is religion (let's not forget that this country was founded on the premise of religious freedom - NOT Atheism; the Pilgrims that came here were Christians). If we were only allowed to issue "National ___— Days/Months" that applied to EVERYONE and left no one out - we wouldn't have any. That is the beauty of our nation: Diversity. Love it. Accept it. And stop whining.

I notice most those against a Day of Prayer have said nothing but hate. I thought liberals were all about tolerance. If you are so tolerant, then you would be acceptive of Americans who trust in God to have a Day of Prayer. If shows liberals are only want people to be tolerant of their way of thinking as the old adage goes, my way or the highway.

MmmmmMMmBeer (pardon if I don't get the um's in your name just right): I agree.. they did cost us tax dollars.. from a lawsuit brought by people on YOUR side of the argument.

So... your argument was more than a little self-defeating.

It is amazing that people get offended by something they don't have to participate in.

 You want our views out of government but you want yours in? That is a very hypocritical statement. 

To whom are you referring?

Chris,

I'll be more than happy to keep God out of your government. Please send all of your government issued money to me.

Chris if you were lacking in attention...hope this gave you what you needed. Your ignorance in regards to God, our country and government doesn't really make much sense...I will pray for your lost soul.

I was referring to Chris.

Chris, it's not organized the way the National Day of Prayer is, but many atheists and atheist organizations (including one such organization on my college campus) do observe what I believe is called a National Day of Reason. They do so today to counteract the National Day of Prayer. I wanted to attend the National Day of Reason event on campus today to see what it's like, but I wasn't feeling very well and couldn't go. If I had I'd be telling you about it now. Maybe next year?

I find my faith that God created me much more reassuring than your faith that your ancestor was a gorilla.

@Ron

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Oh dear...someone needs to catch up on some middle school work. Darwin didn't say we're created from "gorillas".

Sorry I don't believe in Darwin.

And also AP, most people who follow religion also believe in evolution. Religion and science are not opposites, regardless of what Ron might think.

@Ron Sorry, but no one "believes" in Darwin. We know for a fact that he lived and wrote an astoundingly great book on his discovery of evolution via natural selection. People who live in the real world accept the evidence of his work because it has been independently tested and validated, even improved on. There is no faith or belief needed. Evolution may not disprove the existence of a god, but it certainly makes that existence totally unnecessary. Of course one has to educate himself about evolution and not just listen to the religious apologists who have a huge stake in keeping the truth hidden. A free mind is very hard to influence and control.

It's called the "Theory of Evolution." It's not a fact. Many scientists have made an effort to prove it as fact, but there is no definitive proof. The idea that something came from nothing has been embraced by many Americans and is very, very sad. I care deeply about my atheist friends and I hate that in their deepest, darkest moments they have nothing to turn to, but themselves. However, here is something atheists everywhere can believe in...Charles Darwin was not an atheist. I'm not saying he was a Christian, but he said numerous times that we was not an atheist and did believe in a higher power.

@ Louisiana LAdy: Did you ever read Darwin's OTHER book called 'The Five Races of Man' which lays out his belief that white people are the most evolved species and the black man is merely an intermediate species one step above a chimpanzee?

No one has promoted racism more than Darwin.

Google the ORIGINAL name of the "great" book you are touting. It's also called "The Preservation of the FAVOURED RACE by means of natural selection."

Good luck with your racism, Louisiana Lady.

Ron,

You don't believe in Darwin, who was a real person whose existence is well-documented, but you believe in an invisible being whose existence has never been proven? That, my dear, misguided man, is all you needed to admit to invalidate your statements about who's right and who's wrong in this debate. ;)

How debasing to a human to believe they are the supreme authority in the universe.

@villian Your reference to the five races is bogus. Darwin was not in the least a racist. It is obvious you have been duped and not done your own research. 

I would suggest you do a bit more research. The word "race" as used in Darwin's time has a completely different meaning than how it is commonly used today. It actually refers to common decent.

"Along with Darwin, Huxley was a monogenist, the belief that all humans are part of the same species, with morphological variations emerging out of an initial uniforminity. (Stepan, p. 44). This view contrasts polygenism, the theory that each race is actually a separate species with separate sites of origin".

Wow, villian, how brainwashed can you be? No such book ever existed. Darwin's second book was The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex. You're completely nuts. Darwin was from a long line of abolitionists and the book argues that we all came from a common ancestor and that races are actually quite indistinct. He argued the only difference in races were levels of education and civilization afforded by the culture they are born in.

Secondly, the proper name is On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. And if you actually read it you'd realize 'race' meant 'varieties' and was referring to animals not humans. There's barely a mention of humans in the book. Hence his second book. The original title was An abstract of an Essay on the Origin of Species and Varieties Through natural selection but the publisher wanted a better reading title and changed it.

You've either been fooled or are outright lying.

Anyone watched the Truth Project?

Poeple are playing on words, When people say they don't believe in Darwin, they know there was a person who existed named Darwin, they just don't believe in his Theories. Ian, people miss-read Darwin's text, you are correct but why call them names and insult them?? Louisiana Lady, enlightens people who may not understand Darwins teachings, but without the insults. I am a Christian but will listen to others opinions with respect and without judgement. Ian, read Louisiana Lady's post and see how she disagrees with compassion and empathy.

I dont know which one googled better, Louisiana Lady or Ian. I was going from memory, from when I READ his books. I know what the books say, and the intent of the author.

Huxley? LOL, now theres a marxist man atheists can be proud of, lol.

I suggest you READ the books, not just the wiki article -.-

It's the damndest thing. I have never seen anything evolve, neither have my grandparents. Has anybody?? I've seen evolution in species, but not in genus. I looked up horses from a few thousand years ago, and yup, there they were..horses.

And they still reproduce after their own kind. In English, that means a horse will produce a horse.

Villain you have never once read Darwin or you would not have posted the outright lies that you did. I, on the other hand, own both Origins and The Descent of Man and have read them multiple times.

And, educated, I'm respectful to people who don't lie to try and make a point.

not only lie, but totally don't understand the definition of the scientific term 'theory'

seems they always confuse it with hypotheses.

L.J.Rhodes, he was jocking when he said he did not believe in Darwin and you took the bait hook-line and sinker.

Louisiana Lady

A free mind is very hard to influence and control.

So is a runaway train.

Matt,

The only way your argument against evolution can hold water is if the Earth is only a few thousand years old, rather than the billions of years old it actually is. Evolution is a very slow, incremental process that spans millions and even billions of years. Differentiation of species happens all the time, but it takes longer than any of us have been alive, longer than we've had written words, and even longer than we've had cave drawings. But, that you can't see the bigger picture doesn't surprise me. It's this inability that afflicts the vast majority of people who would believe in such a thing as intelligent design.

Actually that was not added to our money until the 1950s if I recall correctly.

I guess before then, our money was godless.

A better source for whether we were meant to be a religious or a secular nation would be the Constitution, which has no mention of G-d in it.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
_{--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.}

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

Ben Franklin.

there are many more, too numerous to list.

our founding fathers were strong religious men, but they also thought man should be free to Worship or not worship in any way they wanted to

LOL...Actually, the line on coinage was put there by Congress in the 50"s during the cold war to put our middle finger up at the Communists in Russia. Had nothing to do with our founding fathers who were very well grounded in freedoms FROM religion and would now be rolling in their Jeffersonian graves.

Jtenny, Jefferson and Franklin were self-proclaimed deist. Nice quote, here's another "Some deists rejected the claim of Jesus' divinity but continued to hold him in high regard as a moral teacher (see, for example, Thomas Jefferson's famous Jefferson Bible)"

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Carl Van Doren. Benjamin Franklin. New York: The Viking Press, 1938, p. 777.)

That's what they were saying in the quotes you took out of context. JC was a great dude, but a god to organize a religion around?? No. Then again, you can make it say anything you want out of context, way to go.

You are 100% wrong! I have spent the last year studing the founding fathers and the principles they used to build this great nation! The founding fathers including Ben Franklin believed that there is a God! Franklin himself was a deist but at the Constitutional Convention of 1787, Franklin himself called for prayer stating...

"The small progress we have made after four or five weeks' close attendance and continual reasonings with each other--our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ayes--is, methinks, a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the human understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of government, and examined the different forms of those republics which, having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution, now no longer exist. And we have viewed modern states all round Europe, but find none of their constitutions suitable to our circumstances.

"In this situation of this assembly, groping, as it were, in the dark, to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings. In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of dangers, we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection. Our prayers, sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor. To that kind Providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance?

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that 'Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.'

"I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed, in this political building, no better than the builders of Babel. We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we ourselves shall become a reproach and by-word down to future ages. And, what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom, and leave it to chance, war, and conquest.

"I therefore beg leave to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

Taken from -

That really doesn't sound anti-organized religion to me!

Also in the Constitution, that was approved by the founding father's you speak of, the first amendment was instituted so that no one religion be established, so that the situation that still exists in England, the reason that many of the founding father's ancestor's left Europe, would not happen in America! That reason being that only one religion could be practiced and any other religion's would be illegal to practice, thus taking away one's personal freedom, freedom granted by God!

I am a follower of Christ, I am an American, and I am proud to be both!

If you wish to look into my source's, I will provide the list!

God Bless You, and God Bless America!!

mmmbeer

Actually, many of the founding fathers were Deists, not atheists. They did believe in one God, and reason, but not in organized religion.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/deism.htm

mmmMmmbeer: You are totally incorrect. Besides, founding the country on Christianity and organized religion are 2 completely different things. Christianity is NOT religion. Lutheranism is a religion, Catholicism is a religion, Morman is a religion. Got it?

AP

freedom FROM religion is just an atheists coin phrase. The First amendment guarantees the freedom listed below.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Our deists founding fathers were educated, brilliant and wise men. I firmly think that had they had the knowledge of the discovery of evolution that was much later provided by Charles Darwin, then they would have been atheists. At the time of the founding of our country, a creator god was the only explanation available to any educated person. But they definitely rejected organized religions and did not want this country to be a theocracy.

Your wrong myopinion13.

The Constitution DOES have reference to God in it.

It's right above the names of all those in favor of the document.... "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven"

How about actually READING it sometime?

LOL @ Luoisiana Lady. What secular slanted re-written history book did YOU read?

Go do a report on the founding fathers. Use NO BOOK written before 1920. It's HISTORY... it shouldn't change, right? :)

Only one founding father MIGHT have been a deist, Ben Franklin. 70% of the signers held theological degrees ffs. The first act of the continental congress was...... yes, you guessed it ..... a prayer. A LONG prayer, like 4 hours long.

I guess it must anger you that you were indoctrinated with a secular version of history? I'de want my money back if I were u.

It was also during the cold war that the oath of enlistment added "so help me God" to it. Religion leans on every aspect of our lives.

villain, that's a convention of the time for dates. So if you want to be ridiculous and nitpicky, there is nothing substantive in the body of the Constitution. If you want to argue that the dating of convention of the time means that we are a country based on religion, you can believe so, but don't expect any thinking person to go along.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html

The notable exception is found in the Signatory section, where the date is written thusly: "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". The use of the word "Lord" here is not a religious reference, however. This was a common way of expressing the date, in both religious and secular contexts. This lack of any these words does not mean that the Framers were not spiritual people, any more than the use of the word Lord means that they were. What this lack of these words is expositive of is not a love for or disdain for religion, but the feeling that the new government should not involve itself in matters of religion.

Both togod and villain are ridiculously wrong again. Hey togod, you forget to mention what happened after Franklin said that. There was huge dissent and only four people there were in favor it, thus the motion didn't pass. That kind blows holes in your argument.

And villain, Jefferson was most certainly a deist. He didn't believe in the divinity of Christ, he abhorred any form of organized religion and thought the bible was tripe.

You guys smoke the same crap as that nitwit Barton who was forced to admit he made up at least 11 quotes and Supreme Court rulings.

The clearest indication that wall of separation is intended to be both ways is that our founding fathers went through great effort to break up State Churches and were successful in doing so.

The ruler of England is the head of the Anglican Church.

Our president is not, in any way, the head of any church.

Ian- Jefferson believed in STATES RIGHTS, he voted no on subjects like this because he felt that wasn't something the Federal govt should be involved with, it was a state issue.

Go look at Jeffersons voting record in VIRGINIA, it totally contradicts your theory.

How about I just look at the fact that he and Madison passed the bill of religious freedom in Virginia that disestablished any state religion there. That pretty much sums up his views. They fought for years to disestablish official state religion.

Neither is praying anytime you want without government approval. See how this works?

Somewhere you will wish you are one day when your lifeless body is laying 6 feet under!

@bobb Actually I've been praying to George Carlin lately and guess what? The cut on my finger is healed!! George is the best!

Well when you get right donw to it, there's only one of two possibilities; either there IS a god or there isn't.

The intelligent man will ask himself: "What happens if I'm wrong?"

@villian "What happens if I'm wrong?" Wow, that's a whopper! I'd say what happens if you were wrong about Zeus or Thor? What if Neptune meets you at the pearly gates? Why would you think you are right when for over 3,000 years the Egyptians worshipped Ra, Horus, etc with as much or more conviction as you have? Fact is they didn't really know and you don't know either. You're just wishing for an afterlife just like they did without a shread of evidence for it.

@villian: If they're wrong, how is that any of your business? Besides, fear is not a good basis for faith.

fear is the ONLY basis for faith.

And you and yours as well! :D

I just threw up a little in my mouth...thanks.

I notice most those against a Day of Prayer have said nothing but hate. I thought liberals were all about tolerance. If you are so tolerant, then you would be acceptive of Americans who trust in God to have a Day of Prayer. If shows liberals are only want people to be tolerant of their way of thinking as the old adage goes, my way or the highway.

@Al There you pious and self-righteous folks go again confusing a challenge to your religion as hateful. Geez If your so-called faith can't take a challenge of its validity, then how valid can it be? Like you guys always are saying "We don't hate the sinner, just the sin." Well, we don't hate the delusional religious believer, we just hate the mind-numbing con game of religion.

Louisianan Lady- 10 points off for wrong use of buzz words. Self-Rightous defines those whom achieve righteousness on their own (like atheists) whereas a christian needs Jesus' grace to be considered righteous.

I think you need to look up the word "pious", too. Pious means "virtuous" or showing reverence to God.

At LEAST use the correct terms in your uneducated regurgitated drivel. -.-

Al, why is someone that doesn't follow religion a Liberal?

Are you incapable of separating government and religion? Based off of your comments, one can conclude that you are a Conservative Christian. You have removed any doubt that you are a Liberal or a non believer.

Do you think your copy and paste work is full of compassion and understanding? Or is it just hate if someone doesn't fall in line with your beliefs?

NYMike... maybe you should open a dictionary and look up the term LIBERALISM.

What the hell are you talking about, villain? Nonsense again? There is no connection between liberalism and religion. Give me a break.

Excellent post, Sharon. The sticking point on what God was talking about is that we should HUMBLE ourselves.

We have a lot of things going for us, but humility is not one of them.

Shalom, Sharon and keep the Faith.

i guess all those families with cancer babies weren't humble enough to have their prayer answered. too bad. your god kills more babies than any human agent.

Babies 100 years ago weren't dying at the rate they are now. Check to see what chemicals are in our water.

Babies go straight to heaven.

Repentance is what this nation needs to do, preferably on our knees.

doesn't sound like babies going to heaven to me.

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Yes, it is sad isn't it? That as far as humanity has progressed throughout history, we still have so far to go.

You're living in 2010? That's strange, I'm living in 2011.

Wow, your faith in your middle school science teacher is astounding, scir91.... did u 2 have a special relationship or something?

Go compare science books from every decade for the last 200 years for a good laugh. The only thing evolving is the theory.

Then go look at a 2,000 year old hebrew and greek text. It hasn't changed (as verified by the dead sea scrolls) and is STILL the OTHER possibility.

You can believe whichever seems more believable to you.

You've convinced me. I'd much rather be with the folks who don't let their understanding of the world change in the face of new discoveries.

LOL. I know, Evan. I've never understood that argument. How is the response to, I base my beliefs on the best available evidence: Oh yeah, I base my beliefs on the 2000 year old, inaccuracy riddled writings of sheepherders who had no clue how the universe actually worked. We live in an irrational world.

Ian, do you lie awake at night and wonder if Plato is quoted correctly? How about Dante's Inferno? Pliny the elder? Socrates? Do you wonder if they really existed?

Do you do the same to the Word of God and Jesus?

Why would I do such a thing, countrygirl? For one we have primary sources for most of what you mentioned. Two, I would expect error creep in translations. Lastly, it's not inaccuracies in translations of the bible I was referring to. I was referring to the inaccuracies of how the world and universe actually functioned. You would expect, with a direct line to an omniscient god, they wouldn't have got so many matters of basic science and history wrong ;)

Ian, I am sorry. Would you forgive me?

Well whatever year your living in, please don't try to push how much more enlightened we are now, because we're not. Just new adaptations to old human tricks. Just as nasty now as it ever was.

I don't believe you've done anything I'd need to forgive, countrygirl.

Ok. Then I won't worry that anything I said offended you.

Shalom.

sounds like god was on their side during 9/11 and now he came on the side of the yankees...WHOSE SIDE will god take during the next decade? stay tuned!

Ah yes thanks for the response.

Who can understand God?

His ways are higher than mine.

I know that I know that I know there is a God.

"God is Love"

Annointed...

And that's the problem. The moment the religious face this sort of logic they throw up their hands and say "who can understand God?"

Yet before they hit the wall, the religious constantly claim to know God's ways.

So which is it? Do you know how God works or does he work in "mysterious ways"? And if "who can understand God?" why pray?

Andy Groenefeld - why not read the book before critisizing it?

I have been a Christian for 20 years and I am still learning things about God.

only thing positive in religion is the battery connection on one side of a bomb made by religious zealots. religion only breeds passion for one's own beliefs while encouraging hate for someone else. it's just a boys club. and you're not in it.

@Mike "Deep down, everyone believes in something... " Not really - if you do a bit more than just think about it. Only a moronic lazy git has to cling to supernatural woo woo for comfort. Reality is what is awesome and science is the poetry of reality. Learn some sometime. It doesn't require belief.

Here's reality for you. The earth we live on; the one that produces oxygen, water, and food that is necessary for human life to exist is the only planet in our universe capable of this. The Earth is the exact perfect distance from our sun; any closer or farther from the sun and life would not be possible. The human cell, unseen by nature human sight is more complex than anything man made. The human body is far more complex than anything man can or will ever manufacture. Atheists don't want to acknowledge God, because they don't want to be accountable for their lives once it ends. There's no hope in Atheism or their faith in the theory of evolution. When's the last time you saw a toothpick, car, house, computer, or cell phone evolve?

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

I thought that was Bible 101 for the believers.

NYMike, that's Bible 10 for the atheists. Why not post the REST of that passage instead of taking out of context like the average uneducated atheist does?

The passage says dont judge HYPOCRITICALLY... we are to judge ourselves and each other. Scripture is clear about this. Heck, you cant drive down the road without JUDGING stuff. Everyone judges all day long. The passage you took out of context says not to judge HYPOCRITICALLY.

Judge not lest ye be judged by the same standard ...FIRST take the plank from your own eye and THEN YOU CAN SEE MORE CLEARLY to remove the spec from your brothers eye.

and isnt it ironic how u judged his reply? LOL

@Mike There is good evidence that this planet is not the only planet in the galaxy or the universe that can sustain life. The fine tuning argument is old and sad. If we were not in a universe that could support life, we would not be having this discussion. Your grasp of evolution is very sad. You are speaking from ignorance. I suggest you read an actual science book on the subject. Your post is most embarrassing, uneducated and totally misinformed.

Hey Mike, we can make things far more complex than a human cell. Not that that has any bearing on anything. And as Louisiana lady pointed out there are very likely billions of planets in the universe like ours.

If they are out there, why haven't we seen them?

We've recently found a couple thousand new planets at this point. If your interested you can check out the details here:

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2011/feb/HQ_11-030_Kepler_Update.html

The Kepler project is quite exciting.

Thanks. :)

louisiana lady,

i have loved your posts, but i must disagree, i, too, think everyone has to believe in something. i believe i shall go have a beer. lol

thanx

Thanks. :)

Anytime ;)

I assume you're talking about Bin Laden? I have to ask, while all that you said is true, why should we not rejoice in the fact that such an evil man is no longer on the earth and can no longer hurt his fellow human beings?

Isn't your demonizing of atheists and putting them all in the same basket as if they are all of one mind as judgmental as your take on atheists' characterizing all religious people as the same?

For what it's worth, I am not an atheist, I am active in my place of worship and have raised my kids with religion, yet I support any and all efforts to separate government from religion. Not sure what convenient basket you would put me in.

No, it's not the same. Religious people worship God in different ways, all atheist do not believe He exists, period. If you haven't heard, in America, we have a separation of church and state and we always have.

NYc: So if you call atheists "juvenile and dumb" demonizers, you think that actually elevates your religion? You really need the government to declare a day for your to pray to feel superior over those who don't, or those who don't share your particular prayers? That's exactly the problem with not separating out religion from any government involvement: folks who simply can't tell the difference.

Huh? You seem to have missed my point. You think all atheists are the same. They aren't. Some are good, some are bad. Same with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Wiccans, etc. You cannot make assumptions about a group of people based on their belief system (or lack thereof). You accuse atheists of doing that to religious people, then turn around and do the same thing to them.

Do you really not see the hypocrisy?

No, you are wrong. Atheists do not believe in God, period. That is their common trait. I never said they were all the same. I do believe that they are unhappy people. The ones who came to this thread to insult believers prove to me that they are not happy people or people that I wish to emulate.

You said it again when you said "they are unhappy people". They are not one person! I'm sure some atheists are unhappy, but then again so are many Christians, Jews, Wiccans, and Muslims. In your original post you asserted that all atheists engage in juvenile and dumb demonization. All atheists don't do this, any more than all Christians proselytize, or all Muslims are terrorists. When you paint an entire group of people with one broad brush, you eliminate the chance for meaningful discussion and pre-judge people without actually getting to know them.

And I have not insulted you. I have challenged your assertions. If you consider that a personal insult, you have too thick a skin for this forum. The whole point is to engage in dialogue and debate.

And no, I am not an unhappy person simply because I disagree with you. Of course since it seems to make you happy to feel you are happier than everyone else, though, please feel free to continue thinking of me as unhappy.

So, who accused you of being unhappy? You said you weren't an atheist, right? I'm sure there may be an atheist out there who I may not consider an unhappy person, but I have yet to meet any and I certainly don't see any happy atheists attacking the religious people on this thread.

As far as being unhappy....

There are billions of believers out there who claim to have this special knowledge of a place where they will have eternal happiness after they die.

Yet even with this wonderful secret, why are so many of them unhappy?

.....because life is always a test of faith and it is hard to keep in mind that there is a greater purpose for our lives than just to suck up oxygen until we biologically cannot do it any longer.

@nycguy I have no idea where you got the idea that being a non-believer equalled misery. It is the happiest and most enjoyable state I've ever known and I was a devote believer for many years, that is until I learned where it call came from, then the heavy burden of false religious guilt was lifted and I have soared free of it. Life is now totally awesome! Really feel for you guys who are too lazy to take the journey to knowledge and real freedom of the mind.

Shouldn't an ardent believer like yourself nycguy be out there spreading the good word instead of sterotyping and passing judgement on a news blog?

As a child (and, I thought at the time, a Christian), I was frequently "scared" of going to hell, etc. It did little to make me "happy", living in a state of constant fear of scrutiny and judgement.

As an adult, I've chosen to take responsibility for my own happiness and I've found it quite satisfying to focus on the here and now -- family, friends, helping others in my community and the world, etc. I am an atheist, and I'm very happy.

Hey nycguy, there are actually studies on that subject such as the one here:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-4560.1995.tb01322.x/abstract

If you don't feel like paying for it I'll post the conclusions:

We can say that atheists show themselves to be less authoritarian and suggestible, less dogmatic, less prejudiced, more tolerant of others, law-abiding, compassionate, conscientious, and well-educated. They are of high intelligence, and many are committed to the intellectual and scholarly life.

That doesn't sound like we are unhappy. We also tend to have much better paying jobs but that's just icing on the cake.

Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health:

Young adults who identify themselves as "not at all religious" have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as "very religious" have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence.

And you have to love the results of this Pew study:

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

On average, Americans correctly answer 16 of the 32 religious knowledge questions on the survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life. Atheists and agnostics average 20.9 correct answers. Jews and Mormons do about as well, averaging 20.5 and 20.3 correct answers, respectively. Protestants as a whole average 16 correct answers; Catholics as a whole, 14.7. Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons perform better than other groups on the survey even after controlling for differing levels of education.

Well.....I see there are a few atheist here that proclaim that they are happy.......good for you, I only hope that it will not end when you draw your last breathe......

Oh, it will, but it does for everybody so I'm in good company.

At one time they all spoke the same language and wanted to build a tower to get to God. That would be the Tower of Babel. God realized what they were up to and confused their languages. No more communication.

He has revealed Himself in creation, but too many people think that the Earth evolved this way.

Um that was Thomas Paine Not John adams.

“All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” is the quote and it is not John Adams