I hope that was a tongue-in-cheek joke and not a serious statement Corsair. Recent reports are that arms are flooding from the destabolized Egypt(guess whom sold the arms to Egypt) into Gaza and now this report that Israel has stopped a "cargo" ship with more arms. What do you think is setting up, another peace meeting? The fact of the matter is that even if they are primarily RPGsand similar small arms they will ultimately be used against Israeli citizens (and military members)- quite frankly what's being shipped in is likely much more sophisticated and powerful(think IED type explosives and small missiles). It's a bad problem that will only get worse with the impasse between the Lebanese and the Israeli. Hammas doesn't want peace with Israel, Period. It's written in their charter and they've proven that it's their intent. Israel needs to be as active (and effective) as possible. I do feel sorry for Israel here as they are surrounded by countries whom don't want them to exist, either by stating explicitly or silently endorsing/financing those whom will do the dirty work for them. Similarly, Iran is behind a lot of the smuggling and spreading discontent in the region. They would like nothing more than to have the region under their care and Israel is the biggest blockade to their wishes.

JoeNY has written an intelligent post, but it is disconcerting to read one written by a person who doesn't know the difference between "who" and "whom." With most people it is the other way around; they use "who" when they should use "whom."

I'm sure Hamas was just going to use the guns for peaceful protests, not murdering innocent civilians in the night....

If B Hussein Obama came to kick you out of your house, what would you use your guns for?

JoeNY's use of "who" and "whom" may have been a mistake but forgivable one in light of the intelligent an vital information posted. Not worth making an issue of.

111pct, are you normally as incoherent as your last post?- idiot!

I can only imagine the level of support Corsair must have for some of our current representatives, "Looserman and McLame"! The comment above from Corsair sort of mirrors the actions of these esteemed representatives. Would he rather the arms flow to the region?

In a recent trip to Libya, "Fact Finding Tour", both Lieberman and McCaine both concluded the answer to the needs of the rebellion in Libya are to send more arms? I never could figure out how you could quell or extinguish a fire using gasoline? An English friend commented on the actions of the people of Libya, "it's about time the stood up for themselves". Sending arms or allowing arms to flow into the region is lunacy.

I applaud the actions of Israel in trying to stem the flow of arms into a region that simply thrives on kaos and war. One may argue that the tactics engaged via Israel are crueland violate rights of others while logic would allow that the best approach to a good defense is a aggressive offense. If you can interrupt the advances of conflict, (Idiots masquerading under the guise of islam and blowing up innocent Mothers and Children, tearing apart families and the lives of many other people) you may find a better chance for peace. Allowing arms into the region to fuel the conflict and war will only prolong the misery it provokes on all sides of the border. At some point the world may recognize the ambitions of these barbarians; they aspire to win the race back into the Stone Age. Perhaps our friend above may have the same aspirations?

I think he is going to save the weapons so if alians ever come they got something to protect them selfs

I am very Anti-Israel, not to be confused with Anti-Jewish (which I am not).
I am also very Anti-Hamas, not to be confused with Anti-Palestinian (which I am not).

BUT... I'm all for confiscating weapons that will only end up killing civilians,
and continuing the petty land-theft/squabble conflict,
that is cloaked in the ignorance of religion and prejudice...

I would like to have an independent organization verify the source of these weapons. How do we know this isn't a rouse? For all we know those could be Israeli weapons and the whole thing was setup in the attempt to garner support from the rest of the world.

5 people die in a radical Israeli settlements in the West Bank. The Israelis say on Sunday that they have suspects in custody, but then on Monday they go into a Muslim town next to the settlement and tell all men age 16 to 40 to report to the local school for interrogations. They arrest 20 more people. How many people does it take to kill 2 adults and 3 children in their sleep?

The Israelis use that event to justify building more illegal settlements. Maybe this weapons seizure will be used as justification for why they need $20 billion dollars in additional military aid from the US.

The timing of all the events seems so convenient.

You refer to building "Illegal Settlements" what factual information do you have that legitmizes your statement? I'd be more then happy to provide you with information "Documented" proving otherwise.

Additionally, isn't all the land in the U.S. which I lived in for 50 years, so called an "illegal settlement" if you consider how it was aquired!!

When the US is the only thing standing in the way of a UN Security resolution, I would call those illegal settlements. Every President since Jimmy Carter has been upset by the illegal settlements.

Looking for moral justification in the immoral acts of others? Sorry I cannot control the actions of my forebears. But I am just as disgusted by what they did as I am by what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians for the last 70 years. Are the Palestinians culpable of heinous actions? Of course. But keep looking for moralism in the immoral acts of others. It makes the actions of the Israelis no less heinous. If the Israelis cannot get serious about negotiating a two state solution, then they will find themselves in a single state as a minority. The apartheid will not last forever. The world will eventually act, just like they did with South Africa.

I'm just curious as to how many Israeli bound ships are inspected by any of the other surrounding countries? I'm betting none.

GOOD for Israel!... intercepted another load of bottle rockets!

Might make Russia a little pissed off at Israel though... unlike Gaza, Egypt has a military,and there are no sactions against their buying weapons, most of which come from Russia. Hope this doesn't spiral out of hand and end up getting Israel nuked for their sticking their noses into a place they didn't belong....

Jack-Israel

You refer to building "Illegal Settlements" what factual information do you have that legitmizes your statement? I'd be more then happy to provide you with information "Documented" proving otherwise.

International law prohibits the annexation of occupied land... Period.

Additionally, isn't all the land in the U.S. which I lived in for 50 years, so called an "illegal settlement" if you consider how it was aquired!!

Yes... actually it is... however, the US government has come to agreements with the race of people that was decimated by it's creation. Land allotments, citizenship, tax exemptions, grants, etc... was it a fair deal that makes up for the virtual genocide of the American Indians? No... but the sides reached an agreement and moved on.

For Israel to say that the land belongs to them... because an ancient book says that "God" gave it to them, (only after making them kill every man, woman, and child Canaanite already living there, as payment) is patently absurd... mythology is not admissable evidence in court.

To whom Does The Land of Israel Belong?

An Israeli Sense of Humor at UN set the record straight.
An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly and made the world community smile.
A representative from Israel began: 'Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Moses:
When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, 'What a good opportunity to have a bath!'
Moses removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water.
When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Palestinian had stolen them!
The Palestinian representative at the UN jumped up furiously and shouted, What are you talking about? The Palestinians weren't there then.'
The Israeli representative smiled and said, 'And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech...'.

Alexander 898989...

While it is admittedly a humorous joke....
You do realize that It did not really happen at the UN...
or anywhere else...

In fact that joke has been told about several conflicts...
India vs Pakistan... Native Americans vs US Govt.... and Israel vs Palestine...

You can see all three versions of the joke at Snopes... here's the link

http://www.snopes.com/politics/humor/landdispute.asp

V...about #2.15, would such an agreement between the US and the Indians exist were the Indians to be launching rockets from reservations into nearby US cities? How about if they were abducting US citizens? I do not think you are making a fair comparison, sir. If the Indians were doing what the Arabs are doing...there would be a lot less Indians than there are and you know it. If you don't want to believe in God that is certainly your right and I 'respect' that; but I do not respect the hypocrisy of saying it is ok for the US but not Israel.

FrankH25

V...about #2.15, would such an agreement between the US and the Indians exist were the Indians to be launching rockets from reservations into nearby US cities? How about if they were abducting US citizens? I do not think you are making a fair comparison, sir.

There were plenty of (completely justified) hostilities from the Indians prior to any agreements that were made. If they had rockets at that time, they surely would have used them... but they had to make due with arrows, and eventually guns... And I didn't MAKE the comparison, I responded to someone else making it.

If the Indians were doing what the Arabs are doing...there would be a lot less Indians than there are and you know it.

They were virtually wiped out! Mass Genocide... the only thing LESS THAN wat remained would have been NONE!

If you don't want to believe in God that is certainly your right and I 'respect' that;

You jump to conclusions... I never said I don't believe in God... I just reject organized religions "take" on what God is/wants/does... Judeo-Christian-Muslim theology rubs me the wrong way on almost every level.

but I do not respect the hypocrisy of saying it is ok for the US but not Israel.

I NEVER said it was OK for the US to do it... I agreed that what the US did was equally, if not more, wrong than what Israel is doing... I'm only saying that just because the US did it back then, doesn't mean it's OK for Israel to do it now... It was wrong then, and wrong now.

V...on #2.19, it seems I misintrepreted your intent in 2.15 and for that I apologize. Thank you for correcting me.

No harm, no foul.

Jack-Israel You refer to building "Illegal Settlements" what factual information do you have that legitmizes your statement?

The Geneva Conventions, specifically the Fourth Geneva Convention, Section III...

Section III. Occupied territories

Art. 47. Protected persons who are in occupied territory shall not be deprived, in any case or in any manner whatsoever, of the benefits of the present Convention by any change introduced, as the result of the occupation of a territory, into the institutions or government of the said territory, nor by any agreement concluded between the authorities of the occupied territories and the Occupying Power, nor by any annexation by the latter of the whole or part of the occupied territory.

Art. 49. Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/07/israel-palestine-eu-report-jerusalem

the EU says the fourth Geneva convention prevents an occupying power extending its jurisdiction to occupied territory.

The EU report goes further, saying that the demolitions are "illegal under international law, serve no obvious purpose, have severe humanitarian effects, and fuel bitterness and extremism." The EU raised its concern in a formal diplomatic representation

Also see the Universal Declaration of Human Rights...

Also see Annexation and international law after 1948...

Grey beard,

question: who killed more civilans in this general area over say the last 10 years? Israel or the Pal's?

I'll tell you, the Pal's as you put it did. If you think other wise than I guess you believe in Santa Claus too. I got some swamp land I want to sell you too. You can't believe all the reports you see on the news. They have to make the Jewish people the bad guys in order to keep getting oil from their enemies. I watched a news clip that stated The Jewish people had killed so many Palestinians and watched them parade the same body out of the building over twenty times. They would bring the body out the front of the building and then take it to the back of the building only to bring it out the front again to make it look like the Jewish army had killed alot of people. This trick is done every day in Hollywood. Get a clue or start taping the news and play it back some times.

Nice propaganda, maxine. Try it elsewhere.

Perhaps, another load of "humanitarian" help from Syria/Iran to Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood.. Good work of the israeli Secret Service.

BGL, so you judge who is right by who caused less deaths? That is a very strange standard and probably a terrible strategy for a war.

Bottle Rockets, Fire Crackers, I can tell ya that they ain't. They are deadly Military explosives in them rockets. The Pals just do not know how to guide them.........YET

sam

tellthechildrenthetruth.com

i just came back from a pink elephant hunt not too long ago and i was using a LAW rockit. the LAW is better the the RPG for the pink elephant

question: who killed more civilans in this general area over say the last 10 years? Israel or the Pal's?

Gee lete see? Hamas goes into a building full of people shoots at the IDF with RBG's and Machine guns. The IDF defends it's self and fires back. People in the building die. Who is to blame for thos deaths? Hamas and the Israel bashers will say the IDF because they should just let the gun man go. The sane person would say Hamas and the people that back them. The palestainiands are more than capable of rising up and telling Hamas to stop fighting from behind noncombatants. Its time the Palestinians take back they lives from Hamas and sign a peace treaty with Israel.

The Israelis have always been better shots than the Palestinians.

Looks like PROFILING to me.

@BGL-2218962 - and I wonder, do you also support the throat cutting of a 3-months old jewish infant by a Palestinian just last week? Is it somehow Israeli fault as well? A whole family murdered in their sleep - parents and three kids, including an infant. Throats cut with a knife. Were they shooting at someone? No, they were sleeping.

How does it make you feel, sir?

Yea the IDF are peace loving people...they're no better than that which they claim to be terrorists. Here's your peace loving IDF:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm

I'd get into listing more again Grey, but considering his first post i think he's as adamant as Goebbels.

Gray beard, loved your humorous yet slightly sarcastic post up at the top there. Snipes and pink elephants indeed. I know of an online pizza delivery place in Israel (for real) and you can have them deliver fresh pizza and other food to some of those snipes and pink elephants who are patrolling the 'front lines'. Google it if you want. It's cool.

Irgun, that link you have there...please post a photo of how Hamas 'soldiers' would act with an Israeli against the wall like that? Would they show that on film? Where is Shalat? Is he just in prison? Simply being detained like the guy against the wall in the photo? Or is he in a slightly 'hotter' place like 'hell'?

There is NO comparison between the IDF and Hamas or Hezbollah. Israeli soldiers fight because they HAVE to and they are much more honorable in combat, and they are only as ruthless as they have to be. Our US Marines are pretty BadA** too. The 'pals' fight because they want blood: witness the recent Israeli family butchered in their sleep. Hezbollah would return you, an Israeli or a US Marine in a bloody bag on the side of the road. BTW, don't be fooled by the supposition that the Arabs will be content with just the west bank. They have NO intention of stopping at the border of the country they do not even recognize exists. Or the border of your country. To them, the whole world belongs to Allah.

Actually that is my point...Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorists organizations. If the IDF wanted to be held to a higher standard maybe they shouldn't have a double standard when it comes to dealin with non israelis. SO until they act better than that, i'll just consider them no better.

And don't ever compare them to the Core. They're nothing liek our Marines and they never will be. I find the reference disgusting.

And you think the Israels would be just as content wiht what they have. If they were they wouldn't be taking land that is recognized by practically every country as PALESTINIAN. But considering tehy never even had the land in the first place htey should be lucky with what they got. The history(and somewhat current events) of Israel is much akin to that of pre 1939 Nazis. Your anti-muslim and arab comments just prove it.

@Irgun - does IDF cut throats of 3-months old infants in their sleep like the Palestinians do?

How can you compare an arrest (you can take a picture like that in Trenton, NJ ten times per hour) with a terrorists butchering infants in their sleep???

Irgun, if you are referencing my post, I LOVE the US Marines and even have my own "Adopt-A-Soldier" over in Afghanistan. I send him lots of stuff he likes. And I will make any comparisons I like, sir, respectfully speaking.

I disagree with your assessment of who has right to the land. I believe the Bible's account of the Hebrews/Jews/Israelis living there long before the Palestinians. Seen that huge block wall they pray against over there? They say it was the Western Wall of their Temple Mount, from like 2000 and something years ago. You can argue against the Bible but how do you argue against a wall too?

Actually Palestinians didn't cut there throat. Thug terrorists, who happen to be palestinian(of which someone can make that educated guess) did, lets not subjicate an enitre population. Also did you just look at the picture and not read the acutual article. The reason why the courts had to intervene on the behalf of the IDF is because the death of one of these shield who was a teenager. So it's a fact not hear say...

And I have many friends in the MC. And i'm not doubting your integrity in regards to that i just don't find the comparison there. And the bible you can very easily reject. I'm a Christian and wouldn't use it as founding. Plus if your a Chrisitan by all means your an Israeli.

And that huge wall..well that was there from over 2500 years ago. Your gonna use that as standing to ethinically purge a land of it's people. So instead i'll take the argument of not who was tehre the longest in written historty(which would actually be muslims circa 600's to present), but rather who was actually living there at the time. And the Caaninites were there first...they wer wiped out by the wonderful 12 tribes of israel. Look at the demographics of Jews in teh levant. They made up less than 5% at the turn of the century. Chrisitans had a bigger pop, and just as much claim to the land. Palestians have been living there, and they just happen to be majority muslim. In fact if it wasn't for WWII there would be no israel cause there wouldn't have been an influx of jews into the lands to make such a presence that they made up 33% of the pop circa 1948. Prior to that the inlux of Jews in the levant made up 10% of the land. Illegal immigrants in this country by your definition would have the right to reapproiate lands for there homeland. So how would you feel if they took a chunk of the US and said that ehy'd give us the rest as a generous sign.

Just look up my name to find out how Israel was really won the land...than you'll actually see the fathers of modern day terrorism.

Yep the Pal's

You fail geography. Egypt and Palestine are not the same land.

@Irgun:

"Actually Palestinians didn't cut there throat. Thug terrorists, who happen to be palestinian(of which someone can make that educated guess) did"

Oh... They were not Palestinians. They were palestinians. Now I get the difference.

So when the Palestinians cut 3-months old infant's throat (or shoot at a 1-year old infant's head, like Shalhevet Paz, or blow up 30 teenagers in a Tel Aviv club Dolphinarium, or blow up bunch of kids in a pedestrian street crossing in down town Tel Aviv next to the Dizengoff mall, or blow up a bus full of civilians - line #5 in Tel Aviv several times, #18, 24, 14 in Jerusalem, and many more during the 1990's, shoot rockets on a daily basis for the last decade from Gaza, without any aim and target other than civilian neighborhoods) - all that - just thugs.

So who are these other Palestinians? Those who don't do all that stuff? Where are they hiding? Show them to us!

Why don't they take their thugs under control?

Why don't they take their thugs under control?

If Israel hasn't been able to get those thugs under control with their highly equipped and advanced military, what makes you think that a bunch of unarmed, untrained civilians can do that?

OK, Irgun, fair is fair: I did not mean to "subjicate an enitre population" in fact, I only intended my statement to apply to armed criminal Arabs undertaking active attacks against civilians. I recognize that not all Arabs are that way and I support their rights to peacfully voice their objections to perceived slights. Collectively, however, the religion of Islam does intend to "subjicate and entire population" both that of Israel and everywhere else. Likewise, please be fair your self and realize that "the death of one of these shield who was a teenager" does not show reckless or widespread disregard for the lives of 'human shields' in the IDF's attempts to negotiate with those who mean them harm, k?

As for "And the bible you can very easily reject. I'm a Christian and wouldn't use it as founding."...what? Here you confuse me. You are a Christian who rejects the validity of the Bible? Is that what you are saying? Surely I am mistaken. Please correct me. And what do you mean by "Plus if your a Christian by all means your an Israeli"? I am a Christian but I am not an Israeli. I have been called a Christian Zionist, a title I neither claim nor reject. In another Holocaust I would don the yellow star and walk in defiance with my Jewish 'brethren' so maybe I might be deemed an 'honorary Israeli/Jew' by some, or a wacko nutjob by others. Either description is fine by me because I consider the source when evaluating such statements. Still, I don't see how being a Christian makes one an Israeli. Perhaps you would care to elaborate.

On the wall, please do not subscribe to me that I am in support of ethnically cleansing anything. I never said that and think you have stepped out on the proverbial limb with that one, thank you very much. I am very empathetic with the plight of peaceful Palestinians and seriously wish the Israelis would treat them with respect and honor. This sentiment does not, however, apply to armed criminals, either Palestinian, Arab, Israeli or Jew.

I 'm gonna ignore teh other kid since he knew what i was talking about....if i were to make a blaket statement about Jews i'd be in the fire now, and for a good reason.

However, do you still not find the human shields deplorable? I mean it's not like there taking former or suspected terrorirst. They just take locals putting blanket blames on them for collectivley being part of the problem...so there put on the line to make up for it. Seems that the IDF just would rather have them than me type mentality...and why choose children if you are gonna do this. Plus they've been implicated in many bad things so it's not liek isolated incidents.

What i will most certainly disagree with you on is the idea that islam is trying to subjicate an enitre population. While historically this has founding, and is most certainly making a return on teh extremist end...every religion if was a majority power has done the same.

And on a religious stand point i would consider anyone non Christian a non-believer...this does not imply anything bad on my behalf, becasue i should have said i'm not a devout Christian. I don't take an exact literal interpretain of the bible etc...i still believe it is flawed like man, because they were the ones to put it together...something of which no one can deny since it's in Roman History. Also i was just taling technically...like if we are the ones who followed Jesus than we are like converted Israelites. Those who didn't follow that path are israelites as well..just Jewish/Muslim...the God's Chosen People saying, should be appplied to those who would be considered present Jews, so to say, who accepted Christ...in other words a Christian. I think each religion can think of tehm selves as Israelites including muslims, consider in there perspective that there the ones who the Chosen People and correctly follow the "right" religion. Hence my point was no one can use religion as founding since each of will think they're the right religion and chosen people. Yuo just have a cross over because you're a Chrisitan who believes taht Jews are still Israelites and God's Chosen People.

Irgun, at this point I really cannot say that I find the Israeli use of 'human shields' to be deplorable;I just don't know enough about it yet but I will, I pledge you that. I think this is because I have seen many instances where the Israelis have been accused of something and after spending days googling and studying everything I could find on the subject I came to an often similar conclusion: something the Israelis did out of necessity and to minimize the loss of human life was skewed from an Arab viewpoint to suit the public-relations desires of Arabs not even directly involved in the original incident...kind of like FoxNews, and as someone who likes FoxNews even I notice it so it must be pretty bad, lol. Given as described by you, I would certainly find such actions by military soldiers to be deplorable; I am just not at the point that I take your word on the matter as entirely factual. I suspect that the Israelis may be using 'willing collaborators' in necessary incidents and are not just randomly grabbing uninvolved innocent bystanders to thrust in front of them in dangerous situations. Might take me awhile to look into it as thouroughly as I can, becuase I work a lot of midnight shifts, but I will do so. Having said that, I expect I will find that it (the Israeli practice as described by you) is not much different from a US soldier in Afghanistan getting a local 'helper' to talk to suspected terrorists holed-up in a house. This is something I know occurs because it has even been shown in action on documentary TV. Is it a practice I would rather see not to be necessary? Yes. But sometimes the alternative is is worst and thus 'expediently necessary' and not to be deemed 'deplorable' or reason to remove support from our guys in uniform.

On the mission of Islam...well, just look at that history, both of their outward expansion and perhaps, to provide a specific, the actions of the Taliban concerning their treatment of other Muslims. A female child can't even go to school (except their school) without living in the very real fear of being blown up or shot in class. The Taliban are not 'extremists' in that they are the local government in areas they control and their policies apply to everyone in their 'jurisdiction' on threat of death. OK, maybe they will just beat them with sticks in some 'first offense' cases but the poor kid dares not return to school after being 'warned' because second offenses are dealt with much more harshly. That is not a system I want to live under and I do not support Islamic infiltration into the US. They always begin by quietly and peacefully building up their numbers and then the proverbial sh** hits the fan, if you will.

Also, thank you for explaining more about your position on the Christian/Israeli thing. Can't say I entirely agree with everything you said but hey, that isn't necessary and I do not begrudge you for having your own opinions on it. Semper Fi/fist to the chest/best regards. Oh yeah, just as a minor sidenote: I was/am not a Marine...I am ex-Air Force EOD, but I still like our guys in uniform regardless of which uniform they wear.

Well i appreciate the convo with out blowing heads. But as far as i've read(only accredited news sources like the AP(not that they're that great)) the practice has been forcefully used against teh pop. I don't think it's the way you would hope...like a civilian volunteering to talk to a suspect because they speak the same language etc...and the guuy gets shot. In the US we don't allow it because the gov doesn't want officers jeopardizing civilians, even if they don't mind doing so...because they don't fully understand the consequences. if that was teh case than by all means I wouldn't have an issue. But from the reporting(and the fact taht it became such an issue the Israeli courts banned it) it seems they were forced against there own will.

I still will disagree with you on Islam. I think it's the new poor mans religion, so to say, so it gets more desperate people. It also happens in areas that reeling from the effects of coloniliasm up until WWI and even past WWII(such as Iran/Egypt/Afghanistn). So beyond the pupet regimes you often had bloody coups that are sponsered by Islam. Why do you thikn the whole middle east is split between military dicttorships and islamic regimes. They both appease each other(i thik that's just becasue most of them in power, regardless, just happen to be muslim because the majority of the pop is) and are on the same spectrum but on far ends. They're extremists thatt both hate each other. And the people in the middle get screwed because tehy can't do anything to fight back. When they do they're families and etc...also pay the consequence. So you just learn to keep you mouth shut. It happens in any corrupt power structure...it's teh basis of mob organizations lol. But beyond al that....they're over a billion muslims. I really really do think most of them are moderate...or as best they can living in an extremist world. But you take 1/10 of 1% of the enitre muslim pop and you still have over 1 mil terrorists.

However, even besides that i'm from NYC i know many people of all races, ethnicities, and religion. Although i don't know that many muslims(actually know a lot more jewish people) teh ones i do know are nice and peacful....just like an average joe would be. I mean i think people forget that there were 2 cultural centers/prayer rooms in the WTC and many muslims also died who were perctly good Americans working hard(can't vouch for any of em, but i'm sure they have they're badd apples just as we do.) And the more we ostricize them the worse things will get. Out of spit if i was treated like a second class citizen because of my religion, I would learn to stereotype in the exact same way it would be done to me.

And although we don't agree on a lot of things...I thank you for your service!!

The right of self defence.

Egypt could never intercept an Israeli warship!!!! Not a smart question. The Arabs are armed and trying to get more. Unnecessarily so!!

They didn't invade Egypt or Syria, this was in the Mediterranean. That is not comparable with Mexico invading Texas, maybe the Gulf of Mexico, but not Texas. And if the US was arming insurgents to attack and kill Mexicans, then yes, I would think Mexico could board those ships in the Gulf of Mexico and confiscate the arms that would have been used to kill their people.

Syria is a sworn enemy & at war with Israel. Israel takes care of its enemies & trying to protect own citizens no matter where. The killers of 3 month babies will get weapons no longer.

Well put Sam, they should be able to roam the seas like everyone else. Do you know that the Palestinians were offered about 95% of the land they historically wanted through the Camp David Peace Accords and rejected it, deciding rather to begin the intifada again? Then they fired a few rockets and killed a few Israelis. Israel retaliated with larger rockets to say: stop firing on us! But Palestine never hears and continues to put their own people in harms way because of misplaced hatred. They should hate their own leaders who have put them in the poverty they revile.

The captain granted permission for boarding. That makes it legal.

"Although the ship was intercepted outside of Israel's territorial waters, maritime law entitles Israel to search any merchant vessel it has reason to believe is carrying contraband to support Hamas' armed conflict with Israel"

Israel has saved lives by capturing this war materiel.

Those whining about "Palestinian civilians being killed" should be rejoicing that these weapons aren't going into the hands of terrorists, who hide behind civilians when conducting their terror attacks.

Sam's a paid troll. Try not to encourage him. He's bitter at the world. He didn't get his way. All he does is attack people, not their comments. If you review a bit you will find that there is absolutely nothing constructive in his drivel.

Tired_of_Extremists mexico invades everyday americans git murdered by illegals go crawl back under your rock

I think Israel is on shaky ground. There is no question that Egypt is a sovereign nation and has the absolute right to buy arms. Presently, Egypt is not at war with Israel and Israel has no right to prevent Egypt from purchasing arms. The article seems to say that Israels actions are based upon its "belief" that this arms shipment to Egypt is a sham and that the arms, when they arrive in Egypt will be smuggled to the Pals. That is a two-step assumption and on its face sounds like paranoia. Unless, Israel has some facts to back up its suspicions it should stay out of the affairs of other sovereign nations. It's no wonder that Israel has made so many enemies out of its neighbors. Previously, I said Egypt is not at war with Israel - if Israel keeps this stuff up maybe it will be.

The United States boards ships in the open sea all of the time. If they think the ship is carrying drugs intended for the US they board it and confiscate the cargo. They have done this off of the coast of Ecuador and off the coast of Mexico.

Citizen, did you read the story? "Although the ship was intercepted outside of Israel's territorial waters, maritime law entitles Israel to search any merchant vessel it has reason to believe is carrying contraband to support Hamas, said Benjamin David, a former high-ranking officer in the military's legal department." The same way Kennedy ordered U.S. ships to intercept Russian ships during the Cuban missile crisis.

Bobby: Was it "contraband"? Arms in and of themselves are not "contraband". Were they to "support Hamas"? Is Israelphysic? Who said Kennedy's action was legal? It was necessary - but was it legal?

Gil, arms are contraband. Anything imported or exported illegally is considered contraband, (dictionary). Illegal arms are reason enough. Was Kennedy's actions legal? Did it avert a war and keep nuclear missiles off our coast? Yes. Was it legal? The U.S.S.R. wanted to negotiate with us while they held a gun to our head and our national security was being breached. If you believe otherwise, don't dare exercise the very freedoms you have today such as posting your opinion on this site. In some countries, you'd be shot for that since they don't have that freedom. You can thank Kennedy now. Legal and necessary.

I'm sure the Mossad had something to do with the intelligence of what was on the ship. And Israel is at war with Hamas. Anyone who aids Hamas is by default an enemy of Israel. Remember the Lusitania? I'm sure it's not illegal in Israel to board these ships, so you would be referring to international law? The UN? If Israel listened to the UN, there would be no more Israel. And, if Egypt believes this is an act of war, they can go to war with Israel. The fact that they haven't seems to suggest that they know they got caught "red handed."

who gives a s... if its legal we turned back soooo many Russian ships with arm that had our name writin all over them tard

Eygpt goverment was not the owners of the cargo. The cargo was illegal arms under international law. The Israel navy was lawful in bordering the ship if they had information it was carrying said arms. ( they did).

Tired-of- extreamists, Poncho Via tried that already and it didn't work out so well for him.

Egypt is no longer a functioning Government so the Iranians and Syrians are taking advantage of the situation and why not? That being said, SINK ALL CARGO SHIPMENTS FROM THESE TWO COUNTRIES TO EGYPT. See how easy this is to deal with. WOW, I should have been someone other than just a old retired Combat vet with a pention (not much) and gettin Medicare cauz our Gov't LIED to us and said we were gonna have TRICARE for the rest of our life. MEDICARE is TRICARE for sure. Just try to find a Doc to take MEDICARE these days. Hell, 5 months to get to see a Medicare Doc now. Can't wait for OBAMMA CARE TO KICK IN so I can DIE.

Real runny Thosic...if i robbed a bank i could be quite generous with the money too. Than i'll offer the bank 95% of there money back and act as if it's a generous concession.

and nice one slumlord...by acting on your terms we would have murdered awhole bunch of merchants on a ship of whom by there statement, of which i can believe considering the transport industry, didn't even know what was on it. THANK GOD your retired.

Bobby: Read my comment @ #5.11. You say the arms were shipped "illegally therefore they are contraband, from there you say that since they are contraband they are illegal" -- sound a bit circular to you? As to Kennedy @ #5.15 I said "It was necessary - but was it legal?". You are confusing legality with necessity. They are not synonymous. Oh - "synonymous", that means "the same thing".

Citizen...on would you have cheered if the Egyptians intercepted an israeli warship??.

There aren't any Israeli ships shipping arms to kill Egyptians, so how would we have the opportunity? See the difference?

Gil, are you for real? Would you let your friend get totally drunk and let him drive simply because he hasn't killed anyone yet? Would you sell a gun to a crack-head simply because hasn't yet committed a crime with? It's ok for police to ignore a guy with a bag full of house breaking impliments at 3 a.m. because he hasn't done it yet? Wake up my friend. This overiding need for the law to prevail at any expense is not realistic. A few old quotes for your consideration if I may. "The law is an ass". "In this life we have the law, if you want justice wait for the next life".

And 'Thosic', the Lusitania, you're comparing this to a Nazi u-boat captain accidentally sinking a passenger liner? You astound me.

what right do they have to intercept a ship 200 miles off of their shores.

Well it all depends on if the ship was 199 or 201 miles off their shore. International law establishes a 200 mile economic terrirory around coastal nations. So they would have every right to intercept a vessel within that economic zone, but would be in violation of international law if they intercepted a vessel outside that economic zone.

Not entirely true. Vessels on the high seas (outside the EEZ) that are transporting arms from a neutral nation to a belligerent can be intercepted and searched by the other belligerent.

I see a lot of words here but not so much of it with credibility. Has anyone asked how these "alleged" weapons were going to get to 'Hamas' like Israel claims?

Seems far fetched to me... You see, last I checked Israel has a blockade which would have prevented this ship's cargo from ever reaching a Port City on Gaza coastal waters. It's not like these cargo ships can just sneak through, lol.

Why did the Egyptians need to be notified? They weren't involved.

Samalis too? what about the Iranains who intercepted a british ship just a few km (lees than 10 miles) off their shores?? the whole world including the US called it provocation although the iranains released the entire crew unharmed along with the ship.

double standards is our matto.

So true, John...and let's not forget that the Israelis attacked one of our ships - the U.S.S. liberty, destroying it and killing dozens of our men in the process. Not everything Israel does is in self-defense...

The US military command has notified israelis of no US ships were in 100 war zone, while USS "Liberty" were in close proximity to Israel. There were a lot of decoys from arab countries and Warsaw Pact Navy. The US Navy & Congress investigation had concluded that it was unfortunate case of the frienfly fire. We have killed some coalition troops in Afganistan too: WAR! Everything happens.

the U.S.S. liberty, destroying it

A falsehood. The Liberty was not destroyed.

In fact, it was determined that the incident was unintentional, as the Israelis were fighting a war, and the ship was thought to be Egyptian.

The US has killed many of its own in friendly fire incidents.

As far as the Iranian airliner was concerned, the ship that shot it down was engaged in a running battle with Iranian patrol boats at the time, and they mistook it for a military aircraft. A tragic mistake, but hardly an intentional effort to kill civilians.

As far as the question of territorial waters goes, there's a standard 12-mile limit that is considered territorial (within which vessels of other countries can't go), and there is the 200 NM exclusive economic zone, where military vessels can pass while (it's called exercising the right of innocent passage), but in which fishing/mining (et al) is limited to one nation.

Those are the general rule. It gets slightly more fuzzy in archipelagic waters, and those in which several nations can't draw straight lines out to 200 miles (say, Egypt and Israel, Syria and Turkey, or most of the Baltic). Most countries agree in general about the law of the sea, with some exceptions (China, for example, has an unusual interpretation of what is allowed in their EEZ, and claims territorial waters that nobody else thinks they are allowed to claim).

@CAMMANDER_MANDER stop the bull. Did the 3 months old infant slaughtered last week endanger someone? She is dead too. How do you justify it, other than your utter hatred? How can you live with yourself while supporting such actions?

@steven, how can you say the liberty was not destroyed? there are reports stating israel knew it was a us ship and purposely tried to sink it.

if its not destroyed, then lets put you on a boat the condition the liberty was in after the cowardly attack and see how far you can get on it.

looking forward to the day when we finally get israel out of our government, when they dont belong to begin with.

and please if you think israel really stopped these weapons from getting to hamas you are wrong, they would never send all of them on one ship. iran send two ships full of weapons to syria (doesnt take a brain surgeon to figure that one out) and hamas is getting ready to properly defend themselves.

not that i was to see anyone get killed, but its so ovbious what is going to happen next

The U.S.S. Liberty was fired on by Israeli warplanes because the ship was conducting communications surveillance, something all countries conduct against allies and enemies alike. Israel really didn't want us snooping at that particular time.

well at least someone admits israel attacked

Israel claims the USS Liberty was traveling at 30 knots, top speed for the USS Liberty was about ½ that.

Israelis also opened fire on US sailors escaping to life boats. Eyewitness testimony from the survivors doesn't match what the official investigation concluded. Who is lying? The US Sailors? Or Israel/Washington trying to whitewash the incident?

dumbass american

In the Mediterranean it is a 12 mile zone, 200 miles would reach in to other country's territorial waters.

People cannot stay away from beating on Obama any more then they could beating down on Bush every chance they get.

If the shoe fits...

Why doesn't anyone ever mention the fact that the Obama have a RABBI in their family?

Is it that it's an inconvenient fact?

Robert, grow up and read his post again. His statement simply implies that Obama is not slanted towards Muslims as a lot of the folks on here try to portray him. His post in no way is derogatory to those of you who wear your Judaism on your sleeve.

This rumor of a Rabbi (I'm assuming that it is the traditional Jewish religious figure, not just a teacher) in Obama's family is a new one to me. Can you produce the source of this claim? As far as being an "inconvenient fact", since it does not seem to be common knowledge, how can we be sure that it is not an "inconvenient fact" to the Obama family or his extended family of campaign managers?

there are always going to be poeple that wont like the guy on top why cant you tards just deal with him

I agree with you. If I want to live in Jewish neighborhood I should learn to be friends with them. If Israel want to live in Arab neighborhood, they should try to be friends with them.

Ask any black people in USA, how to move in white neighborhood and live peacefully. Ask Muslim in USA when they do not want to be friendly to us and want to be our enemy by violating our laws.

This is nothing new. It is Universal law. Joseph was welcomed by Pharohas and let him bring his people to egypt where they will not starve. Israelities lived in peace with Egypt for centuries and prospered and multiplied.

But then they has falling out and they Jews left cursing Egyptian. Then it happened again in Europe.

It is nice to love your neighbors, particularly when you are the one who is moving in other's neighborhood.

Don't goive me crap of Promised land. more than half of the Jews do not live in promised land and promised land is prospering to no less degree for this diasparra community. Jews are assets to America and Israel both. They have found a way to live with us and propser with us. They can do same in Middle east

Right on Robbie, when israel killed all those civilian ppl on the flotilla noone got prosecuted. israel is just another illegitimate pirate group...

It's really too bad some of those smuggled rockets aren't falling in YOUR back yard, you tune would change REAL quick. It's easy to sit and snipe when you're in your nice, safe armchair half way around the world.

israel killed all those civilian ppl on the flotilla

One ship in the flotilla was populated with terrorists, not civilians.

They attacked the Israelis when the ship was boarded. The other ships were boarded without incident.

The terrorists were on that one ship, and they got what they deserved.

Hey Sam-279394, your last four posts have been collapsed because everybody else here including me thinks you are a troll. Take the hint.

Wow Steven, that's like me saying that settler family that got murdered last week instigated the situation. Although i may not agree with settlers at all, doesn't mean i would wish them harm...esp the young and innocent who didn't have a choice in there parents stupid choices.

And if i was on the ship, the way it was boarded, i'd attack them in the same way. Including using WMD's such as pipes, box cuters, and water hoses...you know how big those terrorists roll....they carried those atrocious weapon on them, even though they're the smae ones that would most likely be lying around on any merchant vessel.

steven i dont know where you get your info from, but its all wrong. the only terrorist on the floatilla came from the air and illeagally boarded the ship

They are technically at war.

Sure, Like he stands by his other allies. p.e Mubarak, Bahrain

Why is the poster a "racist bigot" because he accused a public official of a particular religious affiliation? Is it because you perceive the poster to be a "non-person of color" because he criticized a "person of color"? If he had said the same thing about, say, Newt Gingrich, would you have labeled him a bigot? Your own hypocritical bigotry is showing, Scotty boy.

The POTUS is everyone's president, regardless of race, therefore everyone has the right to criticize... just like all the "persons of color" constantly criticize their fair-skinned politicians. Get off your "racism" crutch and stand on your own two feet and you'll go farther, faster.

No, it is because he ignores simple, public, and plain facts. Criticize yes, spread lies, NO. Your post smells of your own bigotry there CC "BOY". THAT, was uncalled for.

scott...I guess I need to catch up. It would be a lot easier if folks referenced the original post they are talking about. I'll have to do more post reading. Please don't give me both barrels because I agree with your premise and from other posts of yours that I've seen, we seem to be on the same side of the Israeli/Arab thing. I'm just wondering what it was that someone wrote to get you to go left on 'em, hence, now I want to try to find their post :-)

USMC-Vet.... who gave Israel the right to determine what or what isn't an illegal weapon going to a third country? Israel is not saying that these weapons were going to cause disruption in Egypt, they claim these weapons were going to be used against Israel. Of course, they will say anything to justify any act of piracy they commit. 200 miles off the coast is stretching their credibility!!

Israel, obviously, has been tracking and watching this vessel for some time.

Israeli satellites observed weapons being loaded.

Israel is saving lives by keeping weapons from the terrorists.

Why do "peaceful Palestinians" need these weapons anyway?

Dejay, who gives any of us a right to post our comments here? The same freedom that allows us to do this allows countries to take actions to protect their citizens.

Dejay, no one wants terrorists to get weapons so they can kill Jews in Israel, that is why we all support Israel's right to sieze the weapons.

@DeJay, Israel gave themselves the right, I wonder how many times countries say things about the US, every country has the right to defend themselves. If you don't like Israel you have that right but you don't say they don't have the right. I have the right to defend my home even you feel I was not in danger.

Steven B Why do "peaceful Palestinians" need these weapons anyway?

Obviously to defend themselves from Israel. Why do "peaceful Israelis" need those nuclear weapons anyway?

The Israeli's are acting like the Somali pirates. They have no right to stop a ship 200 miles off their shore. Never forget the USS Liberty, a US navy ship that these Israeli thugs attacked in June 1967. It was a deliberate criminal act, not a mistake and has been covered up for more than 40 years.

"Pursuant to international law, you are hereby forbidden to prevent weapons from reaching a US, EU, and UN-declared terrorist organization that has sworn to destroy you and will subsequently fire those weapons directly at your civilian population centers."

What planet do you live on?

GTR5,

The USS Liberty was a Navy ship in the middle of a war zone. The USS Liberty had orders to move out of the area, so it wouldn't be mistaken for an Egyptian ship, but those orders failed to reach the Captain, because of communications errors. It was determined that the ship was sunk as a result of mistaken identity (by both the US Navy and Israel). Israel made reparations for that mistake (the only way they could accept responsibility for their actions). Does everything that happens in the world really have to be part of some vast conspiracy?

You are wrong! There was no conspiracy, it was a deliberate criminal act by Israel to attack the USS LIberty and the Liberty was not sunk. It was not a case of mistaken identity, they knew full well it was the Liberty and the Liberty was not ordered to move out of the area. Those thugs responsible for this attack have never been held responsible and justice has not been served.

If that was the case, why did Israel pay reperations to the US and the killed and wounded sailors? You state that there were no orders to move, and yet history, and those involved have recorded that indeed, there were orders that were sent to move. You are correct that the ship wasn't sunk (in my previous post, I meant to say attacked, and used the word suck by error), but the attack was a case of mistaken identity, just as when the US shot down the Iranian Airliner.

In the 60's, during the civil rights movement, I always heard how "The Naive Libs, and that SOB President Johnson believe that the blacks are peace-loving, but they are destroying our country". Same tune spoken with different words! A message of hate and bigotry is the same, no matter what the target.

"REALISTS say otherwise and know better. Get your heads out of the sand"

Isn't that kind of like what the Nazi's said about the Jews.

Sieg Hiel, Active Chief

The international law. The cargo is from Syria (a country at war with Israel) to Hamas (an organization at war with Israel). Israel had all the right to detain the ship.

How were those weapons going to get to Hamas? Isn't there a blockade on Gaza?

Where is the proof these weapons were going to Hamas? All I hear are Israel's "accusations" in order to justify their blockade and Israel's credibility is in the hole. Funny how it took this long for Israel to find something to claim their blockade is necessary.

http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/52d68d14de6160e0c12563da005fdb1b/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce!OpenDocument

Is the legality of the Israeli blockade in accordance with the San Remo Manual.

Part V Section II (95) of the San Remo Manual states that a blockade must be effective and cannot let certain vessels in while rejecting others. Israel has, since the start of the blockade, permitted certain ships to enter while not permitting others. Of the numerous trips staged by the Free Gaza Movement, several earlier trips have been permitted to reach Gaza through the blockade, where as others were not. All of these ships were carrying flags of “neutral states.” This inconsistency is contrary to Part V Section II (100 & 101) which states that the blockading party must treat ships of neutrally flagged states equally, and is a clear indication that the nature of the blockade is not legal.

The blockade is also in violation of Part V Section II (102) which prohibits blockades that:

a.) have the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential to its survival; or

b.) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.

Actually the article stated without any contradictory statements that Israel acted in accordance with Maritime law. Further the Captain allowed Israel to board the ship making it further legal. Unless you have a more reliable or firsthand source than this article for this story your comments don't make sense. How are they flouting "Rule of Law" here?

reterry if the Rule of law say that Israel must allow weapons to be shipped to the terrorists in Gaza so they can be used to kill Jews in Israel, then it is an evil law and must not be obeyed.

There is fairly well-defined precedent governing shipment of arms to belligerent parties and the right of one party (in this case Israel) to intercept such weapons before they reach the party which is in conflict against them.

I'll be the first to criticize the Israelis on the many occasions when they do something worthy of criticism, but on the face of it, this seems reasonably cut and dried, assuming they are correct about the destination of the weapons.

they are only world leaders in hi tech,biotech,green tech and share technology with america in advanced weaponry but have no value.

who you trying to kid!!

without israel in the middle east doing all the dirty work to stamp out islamic terrorist the usa will spend 100 times more doing it themselves!!

Is there oil in Israel? For decades no oil company would dare search for oil in Israel, the Arabs would never have allowed it. With the advent of $100 per barrel oil the desire of the Arabs no longer matters as much.

Where there is natural gas there is usually oil, but some one has to look for it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/0106/Israel-giddy-over-new-offshore-gas-find

For decades, Israelis searched for energy in vain. The promised land for oil and gas, most assumed, lay elsewhere in the Middle East. But the confirmation last week of the largest underwater discovery of natural gas in a decade off Israeli shores has made many in the Jewish state dizzy with talk of becoming a global energy power possessing reserves worth tens of billions of dollars

Support for Israel is increasing from 38% in 1997 to 63% in 2010.

As religious fervor in the US increases due the economic downturn I expect for support of Israel to also increase.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126155/support-israel-near-record-high.aspx

The 63% sympathizing with Israel today is statistically unchanged from the 58% to 59% seen from 2006 to 2009; however, it is considerably higher than most of the previous readings on this Gallup measure since 1993. The trend includes two 38% readings in 1996 and 1997.

Oh bob5ford, much too harsh. Too many innocents in that scenario. You have to go house-to-house and room-to-room when you're after terrorists. They hide in walls and caves and wait until you aren't looking before they crawl out to shoot.

Cite your proof that Moslem extremists are backed by Iran.

Also, cite your proof that the sky is blue.

Seriously, that Iran spreads plenty of weapons and training throughout the region is not at all in doubt.

It is in doubt for ralph. He speaks for ahmaghinejad.

Is that you Anthony Piacca? I sure hope not, though if it is, your inane little saying are just the same...just as laughable...just as disgraceful to Jewish people.