The individual is almost unfathomable. Thanks for reminding us of this.

It has been interesting to listen to all the "experts" that either sound level headed or hysterical painting a huge steam cloud that reaches the US. Japan has the most experience with nuclear energy compared to anybody else.

For me, because Japan is so earthquake prone, choosing nuclear sure seems to be pushing the odds. It don't think it was the earthquake that was the big problem, but more the water damage from the tsunami that shut down the generators that keep the reactor cool which was their secondary source of power. So now they are using batteries.

In this particular case, the road north to help those people most affected by the earthquake I guess is closed because the nuclear issue.

This is just an observation on my part, but back before the BP spill, Obama had just come out in favor of deep water drilling. So he had been assured of its safety I am guessing. Then the disaster happens. Now just the other day Obama comes out in favor of nuclear as an energy solution for the US, and this disaster occurs.

My heart is with the Japanese people.

These people attempting to contain this nuclear nightmare,are such true hero's.I remember Chernobyal(sp?) those men were so amazing,they faced and delt with death,many of them to contain that situation,and here we go again.Im praying for these special people and all who are suffering .Here is to the truly brave and self sacrificing individuals working on this,God bless you and you derserve a special place in heaven,Thank you.Beyond words available,thanks to you.

The infuriating thing about this story is the continual 'foot dragging' being shown by the Japanese authorities in releasing information.

Time after time, they claim to have the situation under control. Then, eight hours later, they release increasingly ominous news, but again claim to 'have it under control'.

It's quite clear at this point that the situation is NOT under control. The explosion happened nine hours ago. They claim to be measuring radiation levels outside the plant - but after nine hours we still don't know what those levels are?

The NYT reports that cesium has been detected outside the plant. That can only come from the fuel itself -which means the fuel rods have already been exposed. Nothing about that in this story.

Infuriating. I've been following this very closely since yesterday afternoon, and the rate of information flow is simply infuriating.

Steve,

why was this plant built on the coast of the Pacific Ocean

Nuclear power plants require huge amounts of water. They are almost always built on the ocean, a big lake, or large river.

As for why these were built in an earthquake zone - well all of Japan is subject to earthquakes. They are also resource-poor. So nukes make sense for them.

What doesn't make sense is that these buildings weren't seismically separated - and were left vulnerable to tsunamis.

Responsible engineering would NEVER allow a project to be started, let alone executed, unless the entire life cycle is understood and completely manageable at the planning phase. We simply do not have enough technology to manage anything nuclear. Now placing anything nuclear in a quake prone area is something that could be considered criminal, irresponsible and negligent.

I really feel for the Japanese people.

Physicist, this is the Japanese. From the time I spent there, this reaction doesn't surprise me in the least. As a general rule, they are very measured and deliberate as opposed to the reactionary style of journalism we see here in the US. In many ways, I think they have it right.

The infuriating thing about this story is the continual 'foot dragging' being shown by the Japanese authorities in releasing information.

It is a complete catastrophe over there. Everyone is operating under unimaginably chaotic conditions.

Physicist, I knew about the water, but I am curious as to why it is built on the east coast. I know zip about Japan's tidal conditions, but it seems like the west coast would be more sheltered and less prone to the effects of a tsunami. Hindsight being 20/20, of course.

You would think that someone would have thought to elevate the emergency generators high enough above sea level to protect them from the worst case tsunami scenario. How many other seaside nuke plants have this simple yet disastrous design flaw?

I've been following this very closely since yesterday afternoon, and the rate of information flow is simply infuriating.

It is infuriating, but it won't get any better. The Japanese culture values 'saving face' and not readily admitting fault or showing weakness. All countries are like this, but the Japanese take it to a different level. So their reports to the world will minimize the urgency of the problem and the danger. I don't think we will get all the information until long after this crisis.

Citizen,

why it is built on the east coast

The coastline on Honshū (the 'main' island of Japan) is littered with nuke plants. Here's a map - they are found on all coasts on Honshū:

http://www.japannuclear.com/nuclearpower/program/locationPop.html

I'm no geologist, but I understand that several tectonic plates converge in the area of this island. It's a very complex region. I'm really not sure if the east coast is more vulnerable to tsunamis than the west coast is.

Any geologists out there?

ResearchChemist,

The Japanese culture values 'saving face' and not readily admitting fault or showing weakness.

Yes, I believe that this is playing a huge role here. The Japanese still don't teach their children that they provoked our involvement in WWII - just that we dropped atomic bombs to end the war. They treat their invasion of China the same way. Etc.

Germany is the role model for admitting and addressing it's own mistakes. IMO, no other country comes close.

In the meantime, the lack of information on this crisis puts Japanese citizens at even greater risk. As if they haven't been through enough in the last two days.

Honshū has been corrupted by the editor. It should read 'Honsu' with an line over the 'u'.

Go to twiettr:about@surveyindepth

survey,

Do I need a twitter account to access that? Because I don't have one, and a Google search showed nothing.

Old school.

There are heroes in most every grave situation--one of them could be you. It takes a modicum of empathy that, I believe, is in the spirit of most all Human Beings.

Now for the reactor: It's casement building has blow its top, while scientists say, "No danger." No. This bad. This is very, very bad. Whenever the "techs" say "no danger," be very afraid. Remember 3-Mile Island, and Chernobyl? All in denial.

If the radiation gets up into the jet stream, well, we are staring at a planet-wide disaster.

Forgive me this sounds scary, but there it is.

I hope this most recent info is accurate, & is not more a case of down-playing the matter. Let's not forget during the initial reports, the seriousness of the Gulf oil spill was greatly minimized -- until they could simply no longer hide the horrible truth.

Japan pushing their luck locating nuclear power plants over or near earthquake faults? What do you think we were doing in California in doing the same thing with Rancho Seco and Diablo Canyon nuclear power plants. They are both decommissioned now. They may both be nuclear waste storage sites.

The whole Pacific Rim around the Pacific Ocean is at risk.

"Research Chemist" and "Physicist Retired" are well-informed and educated about the Japanese, their culture, and their distortions of factual history and events. I was out here last night defending our soldiers of WWII. The overwhelming majority of respondents out here favored the Japanese. It was disgusting. Only a very few senior persons were out here barely able to defend their generation.

Through decades of foreign aid, political correctness, liberal education, and feminist thought America has become a nation with more empathy for foreigners (foreigners who did NOTHING for American victims of past disasters and tragedies) than for its own people who have, in the past century alone, made so many sacrifices with their lives for this ungrateful generation today. A SHAME that those veterans' sacrifices were made in VAIN.

Article Quote..."Edano said the radiation around the plant had not risen after the blast, but had in fact decreased. He did not say why that was so."

Maybe the explosion played a part in carrying the heat/radiation further upward...kind of like a chimney acts in "sucking" air from your house, up the chimney and out higher. I have believed it was only a matter of time before something like this happened, and have worried about our increasing reliance on nuclear enery and when a serious accident would happen, even more so as we continue to build nuclear reactors along the ocean "ring of fire" that is prone to earthquakes and volcano activity. I pray that the people of Japan are kept safe from this further threat, and for strength and help to all of them in the present catastrophe that has come upon their country.

Without the ability to safely store nuclear waste, we are compounding the risks to our planet and humanity every day as we continue to expand the use of this energy source. Profit driven Energy Corporate Powers are really at the root of our neglect to actively advance solar energy usage...because once the equipment is in place, the sun is free...and unlimited...and safely available worldwide...and if the sun runs out, we don't have to worry about energy to heat our homes, etc. anyways. There is no waste to worry about, or safety issues in shipping it around the globe, and everyone in the world has the same access to it. Let's just hope our world leaders will see the warning in this catastrophe and push to quickly develop good and cost effective ways to harness our energy from our "always there for us" friend, the sun, as well as halt the expanision and work towards fasing out nuclear energy facilites and other sources that are harmful and a threat to our planet and life.

To the professors -

The transportation and other infrastructure in the area is already in shambles, panicking the population with dire predictions could lead to more loss of life than the worst case radiation scenario. It looks to me like they are proceeding with an orderly evacuation in manageable stages, first 6 miles, then 12, and so on. Imagine what would happen if you just announced that everyone within 50 miles had better scram or they are screwed.

Sometimes too much information can be a bad thing. We are all going to die you know.

I agree, avoiding panic as much as possible is important...especially as the roads are not travelable and many people are somewhat trapped in areas that may need to be evacuated. Very sad.

You would almost think that the Japanese people that are suppose to be so far more advanced than most others would have had emergency generators (gas powered or battery powered) to deal with these kins of emergencies.

Now it is becoming a global problem, and a global expense.

The Japanese government has far more thing to worry about than to keep the world informed of what's going on with minute by minute reports.

There are people who were lost during the earthquake and the tsunami, who they need to search for. There were many injured and killed which they need to deal with. There are even more who have damaged or lost their homes. People with no food or water and cold temperatures... on top of that they have nuclear power plants failing, in danger of melting down and releasing radioactive emissions. It is a horrible and tragic situation, which may get even worse.

I would hope in the future Japan would consider to follow the lead of countries like Scotland that are turning to wind turbines to try generate safe and eco friendly power. They have them offshore as well as on land. While they don't generate as much power as a nuclear powere plant, they do not carry the risks that nuclear power plants do.

In the meantime I am praying for the millions of families affected by these events. I will also pray for all the men and women who are on their way to bring supplies and to help out.

6:oo am : this is the prime minister speaking 1 mile form japan nothing went wrong just a small 8.7 earth quake that destryed japan and was followed by a tsunami with 25ft waves everything is under control.

8:00 am :this is the prime minester speaking 50 miles from japan the nucelleur plant stopped working the right way no prob evrything will be fixed.

10:00 am : this is the prime minister speaking 100 miles away from japan all we need is some coolant and its comming over your way.

12:00 pm : this is the prime minister speaking 200 miles away from japan the coolant is not working so we have backup battery evarything is under control

5:00 pm : this is the prime minister speaking 500 miles away from japan the plant blew up but evarything else is under control and the reactor has not melted.

9:00 pm : this is the prime minister speaking 1000 miles away from japan everything is under control the reactor has melted but it is under control

12:00 am : this is the prime minister speaking from the moon and here i have all the presedents and ministers from earth with me we are speaking to tell u that earth has went into a state of emregency good luck everyone

Lets not flat out panic about this. Three Mile Island was the end of the world according to the media and environuts but it didn't turn out as bad as what was expected. Somehow the world survived Chernobyl too. I don't want to downplay that it is serious and that loss of life may not occur to stabilize the situation, but lets not let hyperbole rule the day like it does in every catastrophe.

BTW, why is MSNBC showing Charlie Sheen instead of news? I have to watch Fox to get up to date news??

Exactly right! The propaganda that Hollywood and the environmentalists (accent on the 'mental') have spewed for decades have crippled the minds of the masses. Bikini Atoll is a prime example of this. Didn't these alarmists predict those islands would 'glow in the dark' for thousands of years and never again sustain life? I understand it's doing just fine despite the mile-wide hole in the lagoon.

"Three Mile Island was the end of the world according to the media and environuts but it didn't turn out as bad as what was expected"

One thing I do have to say though...Would the public necessarily know if there was resulting damage? The type of damage that results from radiation exposures/contamination is easily never realized by the public. Much of it's effects show up years later...and at other locations depending on where the contamination settles/reaches...and may not be directly linked or attributed to the radiation exposure...the public has usually long forgotten the "fear of the moment" and may never happen across any reports or legal cases indicating a possible resulting damage...and such environmental contaminant links are normally discredited and denied (think Eric Brochivich)...and in the end, it all comes down to which expert you want to believe, or which later study you decide to accept. Just my opinion, but I think most citizens know very little about the preventable dangers to populations that have gone undetected or more often have been covered up...we do know conditions like autism, precocious puberty, A.D.D.. etc. are statistically increasing without a known cause, and most likely we rarely are told the truth when a government/large powerful industry is actually culpable in those sorts of damage. Just like BPA ...government agency restrictions and legislation banning such types of dangers eventually is passed and damage caused is never "proven", acknowledged or compensated.

From what I've heard, the world is rushing to help Japan. In that regard, it is a good thing that it didn't happen in the US. Obama would have the coast guard out at sea making sure that no one entered to help us. He's done it once.

On a more serious note, there is no doubt that the earthquake and Tsunami have wreaked a lot of havoc in Japan. Keep in mind that all that damage has had nothing to do with the nuclear reactor. Right now, any emphasis on the reactor is premature as there has no been shown to have been any damage caused by it yet. If this had happened in Obamaland, the headlines would read "Thousands of windmills toppled, power is gone until new ones can be put up. With no power, we'll have to start with wooden ones by chopping down trees with hand saws and axes."

shakalac

my god. Those people are heroes

=================

Me thinks we use the word hero way too much now a days.

That is the dumbest statement a person could make.

These people attempting to contain this nuclear nightmare,are such true hero's.I remember Chernobyal(sp?) those men were so amazing,they faced and delt with death,many of them to contain that situation,and here we go again.

Except that the guys at Chernobyl were not told they would be cleaning up after a reactor leak! They were not told beforehand what they would be doing at all. Slight difference in philosophy between the Soviet Union and Japan.

Definition of HERO
1a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one who shows great courage
2a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement

from merriam-webster.com

I would say the people on the front lines of this disaster fit the definition of "hero" according to 1d: "one who shows great courage." As you can see there are actually many definitions of the word hero. I didn't even include all of them. Why so sensitive?

Tenstrings. Wrong understanding. Twice the people of Bikini were allowed to return, and twice they were moved out. The Radiation is in the plant life on the island. In other words the fruit and vegetables are poison. You go there and eat it.

Physicist-retired The infuriating thing about this story is the continual 'foot dragging' being shown by the Japanese authorities in releasing information.

I would imagine all of the workers trying to keep the reactors from completely going liquid have plenty to keep them busy without worring about reporting to the world whats going on every 15 minutes. Sounds like they are doing a very good professional job holding s##t together. They have no ideal at this point what is going to happen and I'm sure they are doing everything within their power to controll the situtation. They are evacuating a greater and greater distance so they are keeping the people in mind. The ones doing the controlloing of the reactors, well I'm sure there sitting close enough to the reactors to know the consequences for them and surrounding people. So be cool in getting the word. I'm sure they will let people know as they get time and you in the mean time if you know how to pray, it might not hurt to put in a little prayer for the people trying to keep control of the reactors. This is a new ballgame for these guys and they are still in the game. No doubt there will be lots learned from all of this and greater saftey measures will be used in future nuclear plants. If we are going to have electrical power nuclear will have to be the biggest player in the future. You have to admit it has had a pretty good track record.

You can't eat the native land food there but divers do go there to visit the wreckage. My understanding is the fish there is safe to eat. You also have to consider that they bombed the h*ll out of it many times. I'm no expert on calculating the sum of that activity back then vs. a meltdown or two of a commercial core. I'd expect the amount of irradiated sand/soil/water tossed up in Bikini will be a lot worse than the contamination a meltdown would create.

As soon as the Japanese people stop the butchering of dolphins and whales, (their government allows this), I will be the first in line to make a donation for the quake victims. Watch this and also the documentary called "The Cove", and get involved:

http://www.guzer.com/videos/dolphin-slaughter.php

Shame, shame. Brutal people.

Regarding why nuclear power plants would be built on the East Coast rather than then West, have in mind that it was done so at the height of the Cold War and at the time they were probably more afraid of Chinese or Russian missile attack rather than tsunamis, hence building them as far away from China and the USSR as possible.

PS. Alan, now is really not the time to stand on a soap box and preach about their hunting habits. It makes you look less like an activist and more like a heartless wretch who is not capable of compassion himself.

#2.24 itsbroken ( great name for this thread! ),

I am so upset for these people that I ck. the news every 4 hrs. Why? I am having a deju vu moment from March, 1979, when my world was turned up-side-down. At that time, the VAST majority of people knew very little about Nuclear Reactors. (Thanks "China Syndrome" which coincidentally came out that very week; talk about irony!)

But we sure learned-fast! What REALLY had just happened? No one seemed sure. Should we go & leave all we had to never come back, like Chernobyl later had to do? Did I evacuate with a friend & her kids to another state where our parents lived? I had a child under 5 & they were told to leave.

Our governor was furious at the lack of info. ( so it's not just the Japanese trying to "save face" as the entire Oriental world practices.) It seems that the RNC ( Nuclear Regulatory Commission had............get this.........one phone line into it. And it was always busy. The "Brain Trust" they sent up to diagnose what was really going on got into a snit about whether or not there was a hydrogen bubble & would it explode. Finally, it seems someone's slide rule made a math mistake & no, there was no bubble building. (I now wonder after Japan if that was a lie to placate the populace or really WAS true?) Like Japan, SOME gas had been released. At least they admitted that!

Jimmy Carter was just another "hand-wringer" with the ubitiquous Roselyn tagging along. I did find out though that his degree from Annapolis was in Nuclear Power. (Interesting aside)

Anyway, several yrs. later when they were able to get a camera down into the reactor, it proved that PART of the core had been uncovered. Thank God the design wasn't like the one at Chernobyl.

So! What did they do? Well, they sealed up the reactor with THOUSANDS of gallons of highly contaminated water just sitting there -TO THIS DAY! And of course, Met. Ed. substantially raised our electric rates to pay for their mistake. (BTW, I'm retired, living in an area that uses coal fired power plants & my electric bills are @ 1/2 of what we paid in S. Central Pa. after TMI.)

And now, boys & girl, for the coup de gras: TMI (It is 3 Miles S. of Harrisburg in the Susquehanna River, directly in the flight path of Harrisburg Intl. Airport. I've flown over it coming in to land.) has a "sister" plant further down the Susquehanna River. It sits at the junction of the Chesapeake Bay. It's called, "Peach Bottom." After the TMI incident, the NRC regulators did a "spot check" (unannounced) & found 3rd. shift operators ASLEEP! But it gets worse: they did it again & again they were ASLEEP!

They developed an industry before they really knew what they were doing.

No nukes is GOOD nukes, as far as I'm concerned.

P.S. Many films have been made about TMI, but the BEST by far is the one PBS did. I believe it's available on Netflix & if you can watch it, do so!

These people attempting to contain this nuclear nightmare,are such true hero's.I remember Chernobyal(sp?) those men were so amazing,they faced and delt with death,many of them to contain that situation,

Chernobyl was not the same as this situation, or those men's situation like the Japanese men fighting this situation. Russia treated their workers as expendable. They did not take the time or energy to run their power plant safely, or know the procedures. There are also precautions of safety you can have for your workers at a nuclear power plant. Suits and contamination after clean-up that can almost completely remove the danger to the workers. Russia didn't care.

Chernobyl was caused by operator error. Human error. Fukishima is caused by a natural disaster. No one can stop that. Japan is known for their pristine safety measures. They have the best protection now for their workers under these dreadful situations.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR:

"A nuclear disaster which the promoters of nuclear power in Japan said wouldn't happen is in progress," the Citizens' Nuclear Information Center said. "It is occurring as a result of an earthquake that they said would not happen."

Someone should find these know-it-alls today, put them on TV, and ask them what they're going to do to fix all the problems caused by these reactors and how they plan to reimburse the public for their losses. I think that if you make such brash claims and convince the public that your position is the position to follow due to your expertise on the subject, when in fact you clearly don't know what you're saying, you should be held accountable. It's about time such individuals were made to answer for their arrogance on issues that severely impact so many people on such a grand scale. It might be a deterrent to others like them. If you don't know what the truth is, then you should shut up. Convincing others to follow your lead that have no knowlege of such a topic when you don't know either, is outrageous.

These individuals are just like the ones that say there is no such thing as global warming and the deficit doesn't matter.

gia,

I have plenty of compassion, and will probably wind up making a donation, despite the fact that it may go to rebuilding a business or family that butchers and eats dolphins and critically endangered whales. Probably more in my baby toe than you do in your whole body, so stick it.

Anyone but me notice how the news outlets use maps of Japan that don't include Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

Someone should find these know-it-alls today,.... These individuals are just like the ones that say there is no such thing as global warming and the deficit doesn't matter.

These three things that are mentioned don't have a thing to do with each other.

me-100 -

And so what? You would have them all running down the streets screaming Godzilla, Godzilla? How about "ok, Japan, it's the end of the world as we know it." Basically at this point in time, no big modern city or successful nuclear power plant has gone through a 8.9 earth quake. Why don't you go over there and help the country if you know the right thing to do.

Free - cheap - clean energy, oh wait NO PROFIT

For 100 years ago

http://www.teslasociety.com/biography.htm

"His vision included exploration of solar energy and the power of the sea."

"In Colorado Springs, where he stayed from May 1899 until 1900, Tesla made what he regarded as his most important discovery-- terrestrial stationary waves. By this discovery he proved that the Earth could be used as a conductor and would be as responsive as a tuning fork to electrical vibrations of a certain frequency. He also lighted 200 lamps without wires from a distance of 25 miles( 40 kilometers) and created man-made lightning. "

"Financially supported by J. Pierpont Morgan, Tesla built the Wardenclyffe laboratory and its famous transmitting tower in Shoreham, Long Island between 1901 and 1905. This huge landmark was 187 feet high, capped by a 68-foot copper dome which housed the magnifying transmitter. It was planned to be the first broadcast system, transmitting both signals and power without wires to any point on the globe. The huge magnifying transmitter, discharging high frequency electricity, would turn the earth into a gigantic dynamo which would project its electricity in unlimited amounts anywhere in the world.

Tesla's concept of wireless electricity was used to power ocean liners, destroy warships, run industry and transportation and send communications instantaneously all over the globe. To stimulate the public's imagination, Tesla suggested that this wireless power could even be used for interplanetary communication. If Tesla were confident to reach Mars, how much less difficult to reach Paris. Many newspapers and periodicals interviewed Tesla and described his new system for supplying wireless power to run all of the earth's industry.

Because of a dispute between Morgan and Tesla as to the final use of the tower. Morgan withdrew his funds. The financier's classic comment was, "If anyone can draw on the power, where do we put the meter?"

Free-cheap clean energy was a concept and in the works over 100 years ago, only capitalism stopped it from happening

Great link! So much information out there about better energy resources but this is just more proof how we're all being hoodwinked over it all. Mygawd we have to stop their get-rich charades at the behest of all our expenses. Even when the proof is in the pudding, you have idiots championing the raping and fleecing of our resources and wallets. It makes no sense.

Steve and Robin,

If you have a better answer that is free, why don't you just call your power company, give them your name and address, tell them to come out and remove your power meter. No longer will you be a slave to power then.

With all the money that has been invested in wind and solar power by the government, why is a lower percentage of power coming from those resources today then in did two years ago?

Nuclear is the only path available to remove our dependency on fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are the only path to use to get rid of our dependence on nuclear. People need to choose. Wind turbines and solar panels are neat little hobbies that can be played with and bragged about on your home, but few if any people are ready to deal with the realities of inconvenience that would result if their house was only powered by these so called clean power sources.

@Steve, Tesla was working with static electricity and his biggest problem, and still is today, was there is no viable way to move the electricity. The generation of the electricity came from what is used in all power plants, a turbine spinning a heavily wrapped wire coil inside a magnetic field. He basically built a hydro-plant alongside a river.

Well Mr. "let me try to one-up ya Robin" IN case you're interested in knowing, my house was built green, solared up about 4 years ago. I've yet to pay a power bill, but rather, help provide power to the grid system. Yinyang. What have you done? I bet nothing b/c as long as someone else has to pay for it, and not yourself, you'll stay static in your hubris. Just as you'll tell others they must put themselves at risk for your little convenient life.

my house was built green, solared up about 4 years ago. I've yet to pay a power bill

Really? So, what do you do during those long dark winter nights and cloudy winter days? AND... even providing power to the grid system. Wow, that must be some nice set up you have.

Gloryhound, thank you for your most worthless and mindless comment

@TReed, yes Tesla, invented the magnetic turbine engine, however, this is a completely different source of energy he was exploring over 100 years ago;

"The huge magnifying transmitter, discharging high frequency electricity, would turn the earth into a gigantic dynamo which would project its electricity in unlimited amounts anywhere in the world."

and it was killed and covered up because the power companies couldn't control ALL the profits from clean free-cheap energy

joman, that's what batteries are for (duh) and solar is not completely useless on a cloudy day, just not very producitve.

by putting in new triple-pane windows, insulating, and sealing air leaks, my heating and cooling bills dropped by half. a home that is built with full and proper insulation, along with proper sealing of air leaks could take that to another 25% (75% total) but i'm not ready to get into the walls and floors to go to that level. but a new home built properly from the ground up could easily be 80% easier to heat and cool than a 1970's era home ( like mine). add a "geothermal" (underground heat sump) to that, and you could heat and cool a home for not much more than the cost of running a central fan and the water pump.

after that, you could install the solar panels and a battery system that would allow you to live almost entirely "off grid"

unfortunately( for any solar ambitions), I'm surrounded by 100+ ft fir trees, so solar isn't really feasible for me.

joman, no need to be so anti-solutionistic. It works. I'm happy. The feed is bilateral so when I need more power I take, when I don't, I give. win/win for all but yes, we could do this battery and be off the grid entirely. Hubby does woodwork art and is musician in his spare time and uses some high amps--so we chose the give and take. I live in the PNW, surrounded by trees. Only had to remove 1 Evergreen tree to draw max exposure. We are conservative in our resource usage anyway, so this worked well for us. It may not be an answer for everyone. Depends on where you live and your set of circumstances. I'd go windmill if I lived on the plains, for example. If I were to sell, my next property will be on a creek. We'll generate from that.

Several years ago, (early 2000's) a company called Plug Power (a grandson company to GE) was building these hydrogen fuel cells that were going to be for residential use. They were small power plants that would run most homes needs. Would de-tether a home from the grid entirely. Had to have an alternative fuel source for startup generation, such as propane or natural gas. But, gee, for some damn reason the technology got squashed for public use. (does it really take a rocket scientist to tell us why?!) The costs of the residential hydrogen fuel cell were estimated to be about $7K. Would have been some costs in using it but nowhere near the costs of being on the grid.. This was the techology we had been waiting for.

I hate being hostage to anything and would rather be off the grid entirely and one day when we're too old to have a need for powering up more than oxygen bottles, then we'll de-tether.

I think cost of doing this part of our conservancy was about 15K. That may seem like a lot to some, a sacrifice we get back with tax credits and if the housing market ever levels out, its an upgrade appurtenance that may not make my home more valuable-- but will make it more desirable than the next and that means more sellable. Advantageous no matter how you slice the pie. I was pretty sick about paying high utility fees for wintertime usage and that was even using a heatpump and woodfire alternative.

Do what you want or don't do, but I think doing nothing is a waste of time, money and energy.
Off soabox.

Robin - I couldn't support you more in your endeavor. I wish everyone could afford setting themselves green and solar. The front costs are ridiculously expensive - not everyone has land to sell, and to buy "up" with. Really it's totally impractical for most the world - unfortunately.

I feel diversity and conservation is really the answer for our energy needs. That way we can keep the systems out of the hands of the money and power hungry companies to exploit and abuse them. Right now you can tell the the popular thing is wind turbines which are less than efficient and are crapping up our landscapes.

It is tragic what is happening with the Japan nuclear plants. How can anyone prepare for 8.9 earthquakes? Dams would fail, natural gas plants, etc... big problems all around.

Danwill-

joman, that's what batteries are for (duh)

Duh? Really. Good luck with that.

Joman, thank you for your civil reply. Yes, I wish everyone could afford this. It is crazy these resources are unaffordable for far too many. It shouldn't cost so much to be green. or greener. I think the government needs to step further up to the plate to help people with these items that help cut back energy alternative costs. Such as low interest loans that run perpetual with the land (residence) not the owner --like bonds or special assessments might.

Conservancy does say a lot though. This needs to be more than just changing out lightbulbs and/or turning off lights when we're not using them. Water resources in many areas are drying up, yet, too many are truly ignorant about water conservancy. the old, "as long as I get mine" mentality or those that classify themselves more deserving b/c their pocket book is bigger, i.e need greener grasses, golf courses in deserts, etc. This class warfare is doing more than dividing our country. It is increasing the risk of the demise of it.
We are all very tired of the fleecing of America, her resources and her people by the oligarchs and those who support them.

Ishirō Honda predicted this could happen in 1954. But nobody heeded his warnings. Now it looks like it could all be happening again...when will we learn? History shows again an again how nature points up the folly of man.

Yea i know I'm going to hell.....

...so what you're saying is that this is Godzilla's fault?!

Mother Nature is always in charge.

1st.no you not going to hell.your there now.2nd.the earth is going through changes. fact !!![ and were in the way ] get use to it.3rd. this and all the killing of the humans' in large numbers, due to nature disasters.wars etc. will 2012 come? 4th.watch out Calif. thks 2012

RN,

then this means that the fuel rods were exposed.

The presence of cesium is the real 'smoking gun'. Cesium can only come from the actual fuel rods, and cesium has now been detected.

There's no question that core exposure has happened. We can only guess how much melting of the fuel rods has already occurred. There's so little info coming out.

@Snookie-Wookie

If by explode you mean an explosion, well it already happened due to hydrogen. If you mean nuclear blast then that has no possibility of happening, the reactor has a far different geometry from that of an atomic bomb. Not physically possible.

The presence of cesium is the real 'smoking gun'. Cesium can only come from the actual fuel rods, and cesium has now been detected.

That is exactly what makes the rest of the statements released lately very problematic. The release of radioactive Cesium during this same type of explosion was exactly what happened during the meltdown of reactor SL-1 out at the INL in 1961. There's still minute traces of 'hot' Cesium around SE Idaho to this day.

Ishirō Honda predicted this could happen in 1954. But nobody heeded his warnings.

I believe there were similar warnings about dams. But we don't get rid of all the dams when one fails. Humans are so irresponsible and foolish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Francis_Dam

Really after this dam break in 1928 people should have learned and another Dam NEVER should have been built.

I thought the Japanese were much further advanced tan the rest of us. Guess I must be wrong.

Yeah, what the hell, can't those Japanese stop 8.9 earthquakes... a lot of good they are. (sarc)

"Why again is this article abount an explosion?"

Well, that's because there has been a reported explosion at one of the plants. The media is correct on this one. It's the Japanese government & officials trying to play down a situation so potentially horrible that it's effects will still be highly visible LONG after the effects of the earthquake/tsunami are history.

This reminds me strongly of the USSR's, "Even though a thousand people are dead & we don't have the situation under control, there's no need to worry about anything bad happening" type disaster-responce that the entire world heard hundreds of times during the 50's - 90's. I honestly didn't think the modern Japanese government would do something like this, although it wouldn't have been surprising to hear them do it 50 years ago.

They DO have a serious problem which is going to get ALOT worse before it gets better. Rather than trying hard to make their people believe they are perfectly safe 6 miles from a melt-down, they need to tell them to get the hell out of that entire prefecture. (However you spell that)

They have actually went as far as trying to claim anyone outside of about 3 miles will be perfectly safe even if a meltdown occurs, which it looks like it already has or is VERY close. During a full meltdown, that containment vessel is about as useful as trying to keep a forest-fire contained inside a matchbox. When that molten core hits ground-water, NOBODY knows exactly how far away radiation will blow out of the ground .... it's never happened. But there's about 100% chance that 3 miles, 6 miles, 10 miles, maybe even 20 miles could easily be a complete kill-zone.

P.S. The walls just fell down on one of the reactor buildings. But remember, you're fine if you're over 3 or 4 miles away. So just stay in your house. Those reactor employees you see heading the opposite way at 125MPH are just trying to find a private place to take a pee.

I'm no fan of nuclear power plants, but there is a difference between a democracy and a police state in terms of available information.

Because now they can put the caption of "Explosion Rocks Quake-Hit Nuclear Plant in Japan" as the headline over the pictures of destruction and damage caused by the flood that they have RIGHT below it with no qualifying information. It is the worst kind of journalism - they know good and well that a massive amount of people will simply assume that the pictures of the destruction are from an explosion at the plant.

@Mr George...

I was wondering the same thing. As I was reading the article, the "official" says that even under the worst case scenario there would be no explosion. Huh? I had to scroll back up to the title of the article to double check. Yes indeed, there was an explosion.

Am I missing something or is something off here?

Ahh daphne47, understood my comment, I was quoting the official claiming there would not be an expolsion. I did'nt believe that for a moment, and their will be more explosions if they don't get the generators which pump the coolant back on line.

I am worried about the so called vapors, see I live sw of Japan on a little island called GUAM. So I am monitoring the wind direction, in case of any ill health effects in the future. I am familiar with the strange effects from the chernobyl disaster in 1986, like falling ill to Leukemia in 1998 for instance.

Informationalization - you might not be astute enough to realize that the photos under the headline about the explosion at the nuclear power plant are from tsunami and earthquake damage. However, most people on the planet have already heard about the earthquake and tsunami, seen pictures of the destruction, and are fully aware that the photos do not depict damage from the explosion at the nuclear power plant. I'm not a fan of the poor journalism and lack of editing that is apparent at msnbc, but there is nothing wrong with the manner in which these photos and headlines have been organized.

There's a lot people don't know about Chernobyl that if they DID know, they'd be horrified about this. Now, this reactor is different than the one in Chernobyl and probably a hell of a lot better constructed - considering.

I certainly do hope the Japanese are on top of this and prevent a full-scale disaster but the potential is there in spite of how well constructed this plant is. An 8.9 (or 9.1 per some sources) earthquake is quite a test for a nuclear power plant!

Disgusted in NY - there was a special on the aftereffects of Chernobyl that was broadcast years ago. It might have been a "60 Minutes" episode. Perhaps that should be aired again for the benefit of those who believe that it's possible to construct every nuclear power plant so that there is 100% confidence level that catastrophes care not capable of happening.

Citizen K: re: democracy and police state vis a vis information...

So: we imprison more people than Russia and China COMBINED. They have 4x our population. The police state is which...again??

So: we imprison more people than Russia and China COMBINED. They have 4x our population. The police state is which...again??

Maybe we just have more criminals. You know, those who feel it's okay to steal from others or take the lives of others.

"don't drink the water and cover your faces with wet towels"...You're kidding right? How about "bend over and kiss your ass goodbye". I knew last night on the late ABC news there was a comment about "officials" telling them everything was alright, was pure BS.

Yeah, we need some of those in this country! NOT.

I feel so sorry for all the people in Japan right now, their families here too. The not knowing if their loved ones are safe must just be awful. I look at the pictures of all those cars floating around, the building smashed and it's just heart breaking to think about all the souls lost.

If I'm following this right, we're talking 2 different types of explosions. The officials saying they feel there is little chance of a nuclear explosion resulting from the average run of the mill boomity boom that destroyed a building surrounding the reactor.

Suzy,

Yes, I think you got it right.

It is a shame the officials were not more clear in that point and that the journalists didn't follow-up with questions to get that clear.

You should further distinguish between a boomity boom caused by a detonation or overpressure of a building or pressure retaining vessel, and a large water vapor cloud (aka steam cloud) produced if a plant releases steam to decrease pressure. A steam release would be loud and might look a lot like an explosion. But there shouldn't be any damage to buildings or other structures

Charles,

This explosion was caused by hydrogen. The AP is now reporting that the Japanese officials seem to have run out of standard, 'textbook' options to deal with this mess:

The explosion was caused by hydrogen interacting with oxygen outside the reactor. The hydrogen was formed when the superheated fuel rods came in contact with water being poured over it to prevent a meltdown.

"They are working furiously to find a solution to cool the core, and this afternoon in Europe we heard that they have begun to inject sea water into the core," said Mark Hibbs, a senior associate at the Nuclear Policy Program for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "That is an indication of how serious the problem is and how the Japanese had to resort to unusual and improvised solutions to cool the reactor core."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_JAPAN_EARTHQUAKE?SITE=NCJAC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

AP has the best info I could find so far. It's worth a read.

Physist and RN -

Thanks. This is beginning to make sense.

The information at #228 below is also interesting and very detailed. But beyond my level of easily understand.

Charles,

#228 below

Thanks - excellent posts going on at #228. Seems like an actual nuclear plant worker/engineer is talking about plant design there.

I remember Chernobyl and there have been documentaries on the after-effects. The Japanese authorities are so overwhelmed at the moment they don't know where to turn. This very same catastrophe could happen here, look at the nuclear power plants along the San Andreas fault line. The area is earthquake prone, in fact some predict the 'big one' sometime in the next fifty years, but who really knows.

I am not sanguine when it comes to nuclear energy, should there be more explosions at the plant the odd are very good for a meltdown, especially since the earthquake has obviously shifted the ground and I don't care how well you build something on bedrock (which they did) an earthquake shifts bedrock, hell, that's what an earthquake is.

The reports stated five plants in trouble, if they go then the result is global catastrophe on an here-to-for unimagined scale. Especially if the radiation is carried by the jet stream. Remember the Europeans during Chernobyl?

Charles,

Good and bad news. First the bad - meltdown has been confirmed. A small amount of fuel has melted. No surprise there, really:

Naoto Sekimura, a professor at Tokyo University, told NHK, Japan’s public broadcaster, that “only a small portion of the fuel has been melted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/world/asia/13nuclear.html?hp

Now the good news: boric acid was added to the reactor last night. Boron has a huge neutron cross-section (it absorbs neutrons like crazy). This should, in effect, 'kill' the possibility of any further nuclear reaction. It will probably also kill the reactor, but who cares? So long as they keep the core covered with water, we should be able to watch it just cool off now.

We'll see. One down, four to go.

David-296853

"Why again is this article abount an explosion?"

Well, that's because there has been a reported explosion at one of the plants. The media is correct on this one. It's the Japanese government & officials trying to play down a situation so potentially horrible that it's effects will still be highly visible LONG after the effects of the earthquake/tsunami are history.

I don't feel they are trying to play down the situation. I think they are trying to be optimistic for sure and I would hope they stay that way. Sure don't throw in the towel just yet. There is a potentially good outcome to come out of this horrible situation as much as bad. Explosion was from venting off hydrogen not a nuclear explosion.

There won't be a nuclear explosion aka atom bomb explosion. The explosion of the hydrogen gas is not good. The bad explosion would be if the meltdown of the core melts through the reactor and hits groundwater (or sea water) and it flashes to vapor. Air based nuclear detonations are less harmful because most of the radiation goes into the upper atmosphere. Water/ground based detonations (such as crossroads #2) irradiates all the water/sand/dirt and the flashing of water to steam throws it all up into the air and then gravity brings it down across a wide area. It would be a dead-zone like Bikini Atoll for years.

Now the good news: boric acid was added to the reactor last night. Boron has a huge neutron cross-section (it absorbs neutrons like crazy). This should, in effect, 'kill' the possibility of any further nuclear reaction.

Physicist:

Thanks for this first piece of reassuring information I've read today. Since I have little knowledge about most sciences, I have felt a great deal of concern about the nuclear reactors in the stricken parts of Japan. At least now I know there is a way to counteract some of the effects of a meltdown, or at least a threatened meltdown.

Also, have you thought about becoming a science advisor for one of these networks? You seem to have a great deal of knowledge about this area of expertise, and you know how to explain it so the rest of us can understand what's happening. Thanks.

delherren,

I have felt a great deal of concern about the nuclear reactors in the stricken parts of Japan.

Based on the news this morning, it seems there is still cause for concern - for two reasons.

1. The cores in reactors #1 and #3 must be covered by water to prevent meltdown. Engineers at the plant seem to be having a very hard time keeping these cores covered. So that's a real issue.

2. Boron is very effective when used on fuel rods. However, we already know that the core in #1 was briefly exposed, so some melting occurred there. It looks like the core in #3 was also exposed (this is yet to be confirmed, but based on what I'm reading, I think it has). When the rods begin to melt, the melted portions can form large 'lumps'. Boron is less effective against these 'lumps'.

It's not over yet. But I'm very pleased to see the evacuation area enlarged, and the proactive use of boron in #3. Wish I had more reassuring news.

Thanks for the kind words. Glad I could help.

Here is how a tree hugger thinks:

• oil = bad.
• coal = bad.
• nuclear power = bad.
• electric cars = good.

Here is how idiots think. Glenn Beck good. Everyone else wrong.Got Gold?

Here's how Longhair thinks:

........ <sound of crickets> ...............

Dig a mile down into the earth,you will not freeze.

Longhair, all of the "bad" things you mentioned do indeed have their negatives, as has been shown. Conversely, the one "good" thing you mentioned makes me want to buy a "Tesla Roadster." Talk about fun, while driving 300 miles on a single charge.

Actually, long hair, it goes more like this:

Oil = filth and corruption
Coal = filth and corruption
Nuclear energy = Life-threatening danger and corruption
Electric cars = energy independence and blessed silence

Do you get the distinction? You see, the first formulation reflects the type of knee-jerk stupidity typical of the teabagger right, whereas the second explains the values underlying the environmental ethos. Thanks for helping point this out.

BTW, have you ever seen a tree? What about an old-growth forest? Just curious.

It's a bit off topic... but electric cars won't help the environment unless the electricity comes from a clean source. Most electricity comes from fossil fuels, which are huge polluters. Coal power plants are much, much worse for the environment than burning gasoline. Yet people would rather buy an electric car... so long as the pollution is being done "somewhere else" where they don't have to see it, they're happy.

"This is why nuclear power is not a good idea."

Yeah, but windmills kill all the birds, dams destroy fish habitat, solar cells look horrible up on roofs, natural gas smells bad when burning, geothermal will cause the planet to eventually freeze, coal-fired power causes ugly scars on the Earth, ethanol raises the price of food, & tidal power interferes with nature's ocean currents ....... at least all according to the environmentalist freaks.

So how are we suppose to watch TV, stay super-cool in the summer, play on our computers, & charge up our electric cars? Since ALL types of power production is bad, guess we'll just have to give up on that electric thing & go back to the caves.

P.S. Citizen K. Guy ..... please describe to us what type of perpetual motion, free energy machine you are working on which will allow you to power that "energy independence" electric car, after you do away with all of the processes which account for 80% of our electricity.

MSpielman,

The 'Tree Huggers' want to support China, because they supply the world with 97% of the 'rare earths'. The USA produces ZERO, 'rare earths', but they refuse to buy at Walmart.. Ha! Ha!

These 'rare earths' are used to make those EV batteries and the magnets in the PM Motors/Generators... The Prius uses almost 40+lbs per vehicle, the Volt uses 24+lbs in every battery(Plus their motor and generator), and every 3Megawatt wind turbine uses over 2+tonnes...

The most intelligent line I've heard from a 'Tree Hugger' was when they said, "I can use solar cells to charge my EV when I'm home @ NIGHT..."

Oh noes, solar panels look ugly. Back to coal.

Longhair, are you like 14 years old? Why don't you do some research on the effects of oil and coal on our planet?

I'd rather be a tree-hugger than one that buries their head in the ground, or even worse, blindly follows what their conservative leaders tell them.

I just don't get how people can post such asinine things and not realize they are making themselves look like idiots.

so what if we had a catastrophic failure at a plant here on US soil?? The US govt would downplay the danger just like any other country. I think in the past few years....Katrina.....Horizon oil spill, our country down plays the danger and actual #s of devastation. I remind you all that BP took up with the US coastguardand and failed to release all information. Our legislators were screaming for information, but were stonewalled by BP. To sit here and say a DEMOCRACY is free on open...is a lie. If you have enough resource(money) you play by your own rules because you make the rules.

I feel bad for the people of Japan. I hope they can contain their nuclear reactors. As far as those employees of the power plant still trying to contain any possible melt down....hope you succeed, you all are strong for sticking around.

DevAvo,

You support Nuclear Power???

What are you going to do with the material that the power-plant is made of, that becomes radioactive during operating??? They can recycle the used fuel-rods, and Japan is one of the FEW Countries that does... But the TONNES of materials, including the Containment Vessel have to be put somewhere - SAFELY for a few THOUSAND years...

Current there are ZERO 'Long Term' storage sites in the World. The one in Germany was closed, because they found the salt dome was collapsing, due to the radiation effecting the salt structure...

France has a DOZEN of so, nuclear plants awaiting disposal. Because they have NO-WHERE to place the radioactive waste... Plus Germany is closing ALL of their Nuclear power stations, during the next 15+years, with NO-WHERE to place their radioactive materials and waste...

IMO - Only a F**L builds something, that will POLLUTE the Environment for 'Thousands of Years', without a VIABLE disposal system...

Or, you can sink it into the World Oceans like Russia and the EU Moffia.. Or like France & the UK are doing with their waste from their nuclear fuel recycling plants... Ha! Ha!

CJ- what is "uglier" than black lung or worse-Chernobyl? It is still radioactive there.

I support DevAvo on this one.AC Roberston? Can you explain what is radioactive around your home? Everything. Yes, you would need to store it somewhere and that is up to all of Us to accept a site.

David & Citizen K,

So natural gas, oil, coal, nuclear clearly have problems. Ethanol competes with food production like you said and produces CO2 as a global warming gas, geothermal will freeze the earth, wind energy on a large scale will change wind patterns and result in climate change with droughts. Hydro isn't too bad unless you are a salmon but limited and mostly used up. Solar is OK except expensive and on cloudy days.

I think the earth can comfortably and sustainably support about 300 million people. The fundamental problem is that the pl;anet has become infested with too many people.

...geothermal will cause the planet to eventually freeze...

David - are you really serious? That statement has got to be the most asinine, uninformed, ignorant statement I have ever seen on Newsvine, and there have been plenty of those. Go back to school and learn some science.

BTW, I'd gladly make my house as ugly as possible if it meant free energy from solar power.

You got that one right Charles - and Mother Earth is starting her purge process to rid herself of that excess.

ABCzyx,

Why not go for the ugly house with the free solar power?

What's stopping you?

Charles, you've nailed it.

I've said it before; none want to deal with the reality of it, but over population is going to be our demise. Saving the tiniest of premies, making the oldest of the elderly bionic, extreme technology for all in between coupled with exponential breeding that is compounding every 3 generations or so....

If not checked, of course human animals will greatly impact the Earth more and more and one way or another be our own demise. None want to 'go' when it's our time, none want it to be our family or friends, be the ones to step up.... that's obviously a natural survival instinct and love for family and friends.

Certainly the answer is complicated, but as a generalization, if we don't start accepting some realities of life and don't have parameters for use of technology we're in real trouble here....

This is why nuclear power is not a good idea. Never mind a terriorists attack which is a possibility but natural disasters like earthquakes that can cause so much disaster themselves then add to that a melt down of a power plant.

I did a research paper on Nuclear Plants in the US - they are designed to withstand natural disasters, they are designed to withstand a large plane crashing into them - the rules and regulation and redundancy in design in case of failure are VERY strict and VERY good.

Yesterday the US Airforce was supposed to be flying in coolant? Did it make it there? The problem with this plant was that they had problems with the back up generators - I'm not saying this is not a crisis, but I am saying that Nuclear Power is quite safe. France has reactors all over the country - nothing terrible has happened. The US, Europe and Japan do not have Chernobyl reactors -

The Japanese did widen the evacuation radius, but it's still a small radius - way to small if they thought a meltdown was possible or imminent. Without "real" journalism, I don't think we have enough information to speculate as to what is going on now. However, given that failure is a personal dishonor in Japanese culture - I do have faith that they would not lie or downplay dangers to their own population and the wider radius is precautionary for now.

This is not the time to discuss the merits or disadvantages of Nuclear Power - we don't have the facts to know exactly what did and is going wrong and we don't know the final outcome. Reporters in Japan are probably hampered as well because they cannot go to the reactors and ask questions at this point in time (the US would do the same). For once we should wait and wish/hope/pray (whatever you prefer) that the people near the plant will be fine and let our hearts ache and go out to the people of Japan for their tremendous loss of life.

The Japan nuclear plant disaster will most likely cause operators of nuclear power plants to take a closer look at their safety procedures. But then again, in the US, until a couple of years ago, there hasn't been any new nuclear power plants proposed since the Three Mile Island accident 32 years ago, and this Japan disaster will most likely put future plans for new nuclear reactors on hold again...let alone find a way to bury the waste without the NIMBY's standing in the way. Also, while all types of electricity generation have their pros and cons, IMHO, wind turbines would be the "greenest" of the alternatives, since they don't use fossil fuels or uranium to generate power...what's a few dead birds anyway? I have imagined that someday there could be small wind turbines, about the size of a TV satellite dish, installed on the roofs of houses, that would provide supplemental electricity to a home, in addition to the power grid, thus cutting electric bills for many people. These small wind turbines could also be used for recharging electric vehicles when they are parked...they could be either at public parking lots or at a house or apartment building.

Hey you anti-nuke crazies, most of whom are grey-hair leftovers from the 60’s, the Fukushima plant was built in the late 60's about the time you were 18 when a computer took up an entire building and had the memory of a present day hand held calculator. The Three Mile Island and Chernobyl plants were also built around the same time. Most colleges were still using punch cards for computer input. Technology has advanced light years since then. Modern nuclear plants have built-in redundancies to avoid disasters in case of a backup to a backup fails and have standby generators and cooling towers to take over during an emergency. Maybe these ancient plants, like ancient hippies, should be replaced with newer plants.

Black Kettle & Sand Creek...lest we forget,

You might want to read on the ground water pollution problems that France is having, from their Reactors. see http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=arfiLzs9r9O8&refer=exclusive

There were 86 level-1 nuclear incidents in France in 2007, and 114 in 2006. There have been numerous incidents that have; released radioactive material, KILLED/Injured people, polluted the environment, and damaged fuel rods/reactors.

France currently has 12 decommission reactors awaiting disposal sites and Germany has 16...

While you are correct about the engineering that goes into building a very strong containment facility in the USA. The weak-points are the cooling system, power supply, and the on-site storage of the used fuel rods.

reference - http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/nukes/chernob/rep02.html & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_nuclear_accidents

Wow a lot of you have no clue.

We are all lucky to be alive period. It does not matter what form of energy we use either. The environmentalist claiming energy use is damaging the Earth are ignorant to the fact that Earth has not and will not always be inhabitable. It does not matter what we do you can't control the raw power of the universe. If anything this disaster made us realize we are totally powerless.

You are just lucky enough to be around in this point in time. So why cry and whine about it instead of making the best of it.

My favorite part is how people use this as a platform to promote more liberal garbage thinking that any form of power is bad for humans and the Earth.

Start worrying about what's for dinner. That's one thing you can control.

You might want to read on the ground water pollution problems that France is having

AC Robertson

I bet you are a fan of CFL light bulbs to save energy. Each bulb contains about 5 mg of mercury which is enough to pollute 6,000 gallons of water to the point of non-drinkable. On top of that, here is what the EPA suggest you do when one of these bulbs breaks to get it to the landfill to pollute the ground water.

1. Have people and pets leave the room.
2. Air out the room for 5-10 minutes by opening a window or door to the outdoor environment.
3. Shut off the central forced air heating/air-conditioning system, if you have one.
4. Collect materials needed to clean up broken bulb.
5. Be thorough in collecting broken glass and visible powder.
6. Place cleanup materials in a sealable container.
7. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Avoid leaving any bulb fragments or cleanup materials indoors.
8. If practical, continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the heating/air conditioning system shut off for several hours.

Ms. Stanford - the long range effects from burning fossil fuels (acid rain, greenhouse effect) are much more harmful and pervasive than even several nuclear power plant core meltdowns if they were to occur.

While there was an expensive cleanup, Three Mile Island didn't produce any long term adverse effects on public health.

In addition, modern reactor designs with thermally expanding fuel cladding that stops the nuclear reaction if core heat exceeds a certain temperature can eliminate the possibility of a core meltdown.

All energy generation methods have risks and environmental costs. Nuclear power is the best alternative today with current technology.

Wow! Got through 4 threads before the first reactionary nuclear power is bad post. Better than I expected.

This is why I keep saying we need to tailor power generation to the area instead of looking for a one size fits all solution. Dams where the water makes it practical. Solar where the sun shines most of the year, wind where it's windy (I know, that one was a shocker, 'eh), coal near the places it's easily mined and doesn't have to be transported long distances which uses additional fossil fuels to do so, same with natural gas. And in the places where none of the above apply, nuclear. You can't foresee every disaster but you can figure that the danger of a natural disaster of this magnitude is pretty slim in a lot of places.

Nuclear Unsafe:

It would not matter what type of powerplant served the area, in an earthquake of this magnitude they all would suffer major damage, fires, and explosions. More safety concerns are considered for nuclear power than any other. In a quake this size coal plants collapse, burn, pollute; Hydroelectric? Dams burst flooding the underlying communities.

I love nature, we are blessed to have this planet; I also embrace technology, without it we will never get past this planet. Someday its all going to be over anyway - I just hope its not tomorrow. To say that electric cars are the solution to our energy woes to to speak without thinking, where does the electricity come from? The more we look to depending on electric or hybrid vehicles the greater our need for nuclear power without destroying the planet ourselves.

We cannot stop natural disasters - natural events that have occured before humanoids crawled around this globe. We think we can control anything - instead of controlling it we try living WITH it. As far as the earthquake -- Doodoo Occurs!

An idea on what to do with the nuclear waste. Seal in in a rocket, point it to the sun, light the fuse. Our piddly little nuclear fuel is nothing compared to the power of the sun - Which by the way is one bad ass NUCLEAR POWER PLANT!!!

Our piddly little nuclear fuel is nothing compared to the power of the sun - Which by the way is one bad ass NUCLEAR POWER PLANT!!!

but I keep trying to run wires to it and they just won't reach

on a more serious note, the latest nuclear reactor designs are such that even if they lose all cooling, they still won't overheat and meltdown

the designs are inherently self-limiting

Black: I wish people would stop using France as an example of good use of nuclear power. Last summer they had to inspect all their power plants because of radioactive water that leaked into their groundwater. Did you know they send most of their fuel rods to Russia to be reprocessed and the majority of them are really dumped in the northern wastelands of Russia?

Stanford's and others' comments reflect a knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

It's unfortunate that some people are going to look at this as an event why we shouldn't use nuclear power. In fact, it seems that using the word nuclear sparks fear even though people do not understand nuclear energy works, particular for this energy plant.

The Fukushima Daiichi is a boiling water reactor that both conducts fission and cooling reactions.

The plant was immediately stopped after the earthquake occurred by using the boron-infused rods that prevent fission from taking place. That happened to constitute a shut down.

What did not happen correctly is there isn't power to provide a water-cooling reaction causing a pressure imbalance. What they could not control is releasing the steam that this heated/cooling reaction that water generates because of the generator failure. So now, you're hearing/reading reports about "radioactive steam," the same steam that's released all the time from these nuclear plants.

So now, the plant is inoperable, but nothing is going to leak in proportions to Chenobyl as the plant itself can contain very well. At worst this plant will not be used again and will have to start over, something very costly.

Some people who look at electric energy do not understand that we burn coal and oil to obtain such needs. Natural generation from wind and solar simply are not enough as they do not deliver close to the demand of how much electricity people use.

Clearly electricity comes from magic according to some of you people.

Wow ... I wonder if the passengers having dinner buffett on the Titanic were having a heated discussion about the merits of coal gas lamps versus the 'new' Edison light bulbs, as the stewards urged them to put on warm clothes and come up on deck for a 'disaster drill'.

Please put something warm on your family and come up on deck for a 'disaster drill', won't you. Now there's a good lad, here's a lifeboat seat while I tell you a little story....

The U.S. budget deficit in the month of February reached a record $222.5 billion or -$2.67 trillion on an annualized basis. That's a -15% sink rate, about the same as the Defense-Homeland Gestapo annual COLA BONUS of +15% being stolen from all of our health and human services. -$15 TRILLION AND FALLING! 100% OF REAL GDP IN THE BLACK HOLE OF MIL.GOV!!

US personal equity is also falling at about a $1 trillion annual basis, and our currency is falling as well, about 1% per day. Food and energy costs are soaring, have you been to the store lately? Taken together, within ~810 days from now, the total of all wealth and all productivity in the US will fall BELOW the total of all Federal debt and Mil.Gov burn rate bleedout.

WE WILL BE SUNK INTO THE TIP BIN OF HISTORY.

Paupery to International Mercenaries and Usurists in 40 score and 10! Martial law before Obama leaves office!! 46,000,000 Usury Serfs of America already jobless and homeless, now 11,000,000 upside down American home holders thrown under the Royal Chariots as 'reasonable' to MIC'!!!

Even former Administration figures are raising the alarm. They have no idea who is running our 11 security departments, and no idea where $855 BILLION for 'Defense' (sic), plus $63 BILLION for Homeland Gespato, plus $56 BILLION for 'State' (sic) is going! There's NO ACCOUNTING!! NO DISCLOSURES!!! A TITANIC GASH YOU COULD DRIVE A FREIGHT TRAIN THROUGH.

There's your magnitude 8.9 earthquake and tsunami, American-style buffet.

Charles - Why don't I make my house as ugly as possible by installing solar panels? Because I live in northern Michigan where solar power is not practical during winter months due to insufficient number of sunny days, my house does not have a north/south orientation, and because my house is surrounded by trees that shade my roof. Solar power is definitely something under consideration if and when I move back to Florida. That, however, does not change the fact that the earth is not going to freeze if we harness geothermal energy. Do you even know the source of geothermal energy?

Any other stupid questions?

I have to agree with you, however, that the Earth is overpopulated, which is the primary reason for problems such as pollution, excessive burning of fossil fuels, world hunger, etc.

David99321

There is a reactor design that is meltdown proof!! Very few people know about this and it is a shame that the individual who designed it was shouted down and discredited so that his design would not be considered!
The design was based on molten salt as a coolant! Molten salt does not boil, therefore you can do away with the dangers of the extreme pressure involved with liquid water or other liquid coolants!!
The molten salt also does away with the coolant becoming contaminated with radioactive isotopes and threatening the environment!
Here is a link to a page explaining the process and the safety involved!! The reason this type of reactor isn't used is because of it's safety!!! With the safety improved you lose money for added construction costs as well as safety equipment and monitoring not to mention regulations and clean up costs associated with accidents!!! The biggest benefit of molten reactor technology is that there is almost zero radioactive waste to deal with!! You don't have all of the plutonium leftovers that you have to deal with and find a place to store forever and worry about!!
The @!$%#s who were responsible for rejecting this technology are treasonous to the world and thus should be skinned alive for going with an unstable design that is fraught with dangerous points that will in time fail and costs 1000x as much to build and produces less energy!!!
Here is the link, check it out!!!! http://moltensalt.org/references/static/downloads/pdf/FFR_chap11.pdf
http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/2008/04/deep-burn-molten-salt-reactors.html
http://nuclear.inl.gov/gen4/msr.shtml

Wow! Pamela Stanford (the genius); what a revolution you could start. Since the early part of the previous century (the 1900's), in this nation we have stored gasoline, kerosene and lighter derivatives from oil wells (today, jet fuel) in huge storage tanks all over the landscape. We have millions of gas stations with large underground storage tanks all over every city and town of this country and more than 80% of other nations on this earth. We have fuel's and oil and natural gas being piped through pipes all over the world, too. Maybe terrorist's could hit these too! We have commercial jet aircraft flying all across the country and world. Maybe terrorist's could hijack these and fly them into public and government buildings! We have big trucks running 24 hours a day on every highway and almost every road in the country. Maybe terrorist's could hijack these and load them with explosives, or maybe just barrels full of gasoline or diesel fuel that is so much easier to buy, anywhere! Big truck's would make such a better terrorist weapon than a car with a little bomb in it! And anyone can go to the store and buy hundreds of pounds of fertilizer and hundreds of gallons of ammonia, and can rent a oneway rental truck any day. That can be done anywhere in the US, not only in Oklahoma City!

What are we to do Pamela!? Maybe return to the emotional psychotic drama of the early '80's? No, we could maybe do it better now than then!

Oh! By the way Pamela (and all of you other revolution starters): Have you ever considered what you could do with enough "Jello"! Research it and see if you can figure it out. Perhaps you could write a thesis on it before the next college kid sent to the US by the Al-Qaeda to study chemistry writes his thesis on the subject.

Never mind what will happen to a person if they eat enough of it.

Wind farms, hydro electric plants, fusion, solar panels, geothermal, biofuel, biomass briquettes, Biological Hydrogen Production ............

How many times do people have to make these posts before people like you stop screaming that there are no potential alternatives?

It's funny how the one good thing depends on all the bad things to be more than just a lawn ornament. So much for logic. I guess we could plug the electric cars into his bum and maybe get a charge.

Longhair, as has been said already, you're a fool. I'm a liberal and a conservationist and this reactor is an old design, the new designs are pretty much fail-proof and we can't keep burning coal. Clean coal is an oxymoron.

We should be building 50-100 new nuke plants a year and due to economies of scale the price would come down and it would help to stimulate the economy. Yucca Mountain has it's problems but it will work for storage until we can find something or someway better.

People, don't let an old nuclear plant make you afraid of the new ones. Right now I'll take my chance with nuclear power over climate change. We've got to get off fossil fuels.

Herman C, go read some history. WWII showed that keynesian economics works. If we got the economy back to near capacity via stimulas programs quickly, tax revenue would rise and we could pare back the debt that much faster but no, thanks to you and the teabaggers this mess is going to drag out for 10-15 years with a much higher deficit as a result.

You get more radiation from eating a banana (the worlds most radioactive food thanks to naturally radioactive potassium contained in it) than you would by standing outside this reactor currently. A Chernobyl-type event cannot occur in this reactor type (or any reactor type located outside Russia). The coal currently burning in power-plants produces more radioactive elements dispersed into the air every year than any nuclear power plant could.

Currently, the Japanese reactors have been scrammed. This means that the control rods (which prevent reactions from continuing) have been inserted into the core. As this happens, heat builds up inside the core as a result of ever-slowing reactions bouncing against the control rods. This is called core decay. While this causes currently available coolant to disperse (as this is a boiling water reactor type: water is used as coolant and moderator) into steam, the steam is contained in the reactor vessel and the containment building. The containment building is an extremely thick concrete shell made to contain any possible leaks by the reactor. Chernobyl occurred simply because of differing reactor design (they used graphite as a moderator, which burns in contact with air at a certain temperature , they put the reactor power levels to far below normal operating parameters, they removed all safety features for this test, and they never had a reactor containment vessel!)

Worst case scenario for the area (and what sounds like it may happen since cooling systems can't be put online): the reactor is essentially totally scrapped as salt-water and boron is introduced in order to cool down the reactor.

Please stop being alarmist about the possibilities of what can happen for the area, or the safety of nuclear power. In the designs currently in use by the Japanese and the United States of the past 30 years, they are incredibly safe. In the designs used by the former Soviet Union for the production of weapons grade material, they were not. There are extremely few plants of these types left, and they are still located all in Russia. Post-Chernobyl, they have been encased in containment vessels if they already hadn't been, and they have increased safety systems and procedures so that that type of event can never be replicated.

This lecture by a university professor should be required viewing so you can understand the physics involved.

Physics 10: Physics for Future Presidents. Spring 2006. Professor Richard A. Muller; by UCBerkley. Located on Youtube.

"You get more radiation from eating a banana (the worlds most radioactive food thanks to naturally radioactive potassium contained in it) than you would by standing outside this reactor currently."

Then how is it that the cessium and other forms of radiation can easily be detected outside the damaged plant? Then how come 9 first responders are already being treated for radiation exposure? Then how is it that the Japanese admit that radiation is being allowed to escape to lower internal pressure?

I don't think your banana example really stands up to the facts.

Nukes don't come close to the proven danger of coal. Ignoring Chernobyl (which was a reckless design run by fools), how many people have been killed by nuke plant accidents? Only a handful. But let's suppose some tens of thousands were maimed or killed - heck, throw in the Chernobyl casualties.

Compare that with coal. How many thousands (tens of thousands?) have been killed in mining accidents? How many tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of miners have died from black lung disease? That's a nice sloooow agonizing death, too.

They had it coming for working in the mines? OK. Which would you rather live next door to: a coal fired plant or a nuke plant? I'll take the nukes any day. How many thousands have died from breathing the coal exhaust every day? Think of all the soot you'd have to clean off everything every day. (There are carcinogens in coal smoke, too. It's not just tobacco.)

Nukes may be bad, but coal is worse.

Fortunately those aren't the only two world energy options.

Note to self: don't build the nuke plant in Fukushima, especially if your name is Shima.

affable 100

What was the tax rate during WWII?

@Ann-Libertarian

I just checked the current level of exposure of the 9 workers they checked. They checked all 9, 4 tested positive for measurable amounts of radiation. The highest level detected on a worker was 4000 microsieverts. This is equivalent to .004 sievert. The highest allowable exposure for US nuclear workers is .05 Sievert dispersed over the entire body. While somewhat worrying, it is too low to be concerned about, as 4000 microsievert is equivalent to the background radiation you experience in one year on average (3.6 millisievert or 3600 microsievert is the standard, but it varies a lot depending on where you live thanks to background cobalt sources, what you eat thanks to bananas or brazil nuts, or close you are to other secondary sources like sunlight, tritium illuminated watches, etc)

Ann-Libertarian, you have me convinced more than Sam W., and yet you didn't have to keystroke as much as Sam W. did with your argument, thank you. I'll just keep eating my bananas: they sure help when I get a charley horse or two.

Sam W. another 3 are in the hospital being treated for exposure to dangerous levels of radiation. Furthermore all of these people were treated before they went to the site for potential radioactive exposure. Anyone that hadn't received pre-treatment may (would) be very ill at this point.

Also... I googled your reply can't find that information anywhere but I'll accept that you're not posting total BS.

@Patriot-1611069

Only shows to make a prediction and wait long enough, Murphy's Law, it's bound to come true. Wonder what the world population was in 1954 vs 2011?

You get more radiation from eating a banana (the worlds most radioactive food thanks to naturally radioactive potassium contained in it) than you would by standing outside this reactor currently.

OK, I can't say I know about nuclear physics; but I must ask why a multiple disaster-stricken country would waste time on ever-widening evacuations and warnings about this nuclear power plant if the radiation level you would get from standing outside is less than that you would get from eating a banana. I guess you didn't say how far away you would be standing outside.

Sorry, but I'm not buying nuclear energy is not 'safe' enough because an earthquake of this magnitude created a tsunami that wiped out a plant. Humans design things based on reasonable assumptions. I'm sure the next reactors won't be built on shoreline without a lot more redundancies from now on. I would expect Japan since they are so heavily dependent on nuclear energy to also retrofit the same designs into the existing systems.

This chain of thought about faulty nuke plant design is about as silly as an earthquake breaking a reservoir that wipes out a town/city and us saying, well, we can never build reservoirs anymore. No, we just make them better until the next bigger disaster, or until the costs become higher than the benefits (because something much more efficient/safe comes along). So it has been, so it will always be.

if we need less poeple on the planet ... why do we insist on more tax breaks to have more kids ... more social programs that seem to pay people to sit around and keep having more kids ... sadly if we want to overpopulate the planet , then we'll probably need nuclear energy ... send the used rods to the moon .. !!

The physics and engineering of nuclear power is well known and understood. The US Navy has been running high power, high pressure nuclear reactors for more than 55 years in vessels all around the world. All high energy systems are dangerous to a degree - power plants, refineries, hydro-dams, military radar stations (don't stand in the beam!), pipelines, high-voltage lines, etc.They all have value, at a price of potential risk. However, there is another factor in the equation - profit! The engineering planning was done right at these plants, but the risk analysis was no doubt pared down and pooh-poohed by management and government officials. The plant was located by the sea for access to cooling water. That same water could cool down overheating systems. They could have flooded the reactors on Friday, March 11th. But officials waited for roughly 20 hours, because they wanted to save their infrastructure and profits. They also could have used the large, US style outer-containment structures of concrete and steel when they built it.. They didn't. A steam "explosion" ripped the outer building apart. The engineers and safety experts know what needs to be done. However, power companies are run by MBAs, finance guys, stock analysts, and government bureaucrats. If real engineers had been running NASA, Challenger would never have launched in 28 degree weather. Challenger launched because the timetables and deadlines of management had to be served. Same for these plants. Management and government bureaucracy had to be served first. Twenty hours lost that may potentially lead to disaster.

@Ann-Libertarian: I got my information from Businessinsider, which stated "Iodine and cesium, two byproducts of the nuclear fission process that occurs in nuclear plants, were detected around the area. In addition, radiation levels of 1,015 micro sievert have been found outside the plant." I operated on the principle that that's a per hour amount, and that no person would stay for more than 4 hours. (Chernobyl responders were only allowed to stay in the cleanup area a total of 60 seconds.) In addition, from a Japanese press release: "At least three people near the plant have radioactive exposure, but there's no confirmation that it came from the explosion. JiBTV said they discovered the 3 exposed people when they randomly tested three out of 90 people (and they all had been exposed to radiation) the hospital. Apparently they have no health problems.

Read more: #ixzz1GSX0rWxQ

To everyone else:

Chernobyl is the cultural reference point for "nuclear meltdown", so it's worthwhile to review the reasons Chernobyl became such a large-scale disaster...

The reactor in Ukraine was designed so that in the worst-case meltdown - the nuclear fuel breaching the reactor vessel - the fuel would fall into a pool of coolant. This is exactly what happened, and as a result the coolant vaporized and exploded. In a manner similar, but importantly different, to the explosion that took the roof off of Reactor 1 at Fukushima, the coolant at Chernobyl vaporized and destroyed the containment, creating a non-nuclear explosion that spread radioactive fallout far and wide.

The explosion at Fukushima, importantly, occurred outside the containment. There appear to be four levels of containment of nuclear fuel, and only when all four are breached will radioactive material be exposed to the open air, as was the case at Chernobyl. Those levels are:

1. Fuel cladding
2. Reactor vessel
3. Reactor containment
4. Outer facade

The only breach thus far at Fukushima is the facade of Reactor 1 from a non-nuclear explosion; the fuel has not yet melted down, which would entail breaching the cladding and potentially the vessel. If the fuel in Reactor 1 melted down, it still would not breach the containment; a "dry well" system obviates the poor design that allowed for an explosion in the containment at Chernobyl. At Fukushima, the fuel would stay within the reactor containment, because without a pool of coolant to vaporize, expand and explode, there is no way for uncontrolled fuel to breach the concrete containment.

The fundamental lesson is that the popular consciousness has been impressed with a completely inaccurate picture of "nuclear meltdown". Chernobyl was designed so that the worst possible failure would be exacerbated ten or a hundred times beyond its normal consequences.

In the case of the Japanese reactors they have set, and very strict, guidelines for the operation of nuclear facilities. The press releases from TEPCO (the agency/company that runs the reactors) outline what is going on, and what their procedures are, and what the public should be aware of.

Also, to note, the reactors current at issue were built in 1971, and were due for decommissioning this month anyways.

These two reactors are in question:

Unit 1(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, the unit is under inspection due to
  the explosive sound and white smoke that was confirmed after the big
  quake occurred at 3:36PM.
- We have been injecting sea water and boric acid which absorbs neutron
  into the reactor core.

Unit 3(Shut down)
- Reactor has been shut down. However, High Pressure Core Injection System
  has been automatically shut down and water injection to the reactor is
  currently interrupted. We are examining alternative way to inject water.
  Also, following the instruction by the government and with fully securing
  safety, steps to lowering the pressure of reactor containment vessel has
  been taken. Spraying in order to lower pressure level within the reactor
  containment vessel has been cancelled.
- Currently, we do not believe there is any reactor coolant leakage inside
  the reactor containment vessel.

The biggest benefit of molten reactor technology is that there is almost zero radioactive waste to deal with!!

sumatymrolls - you should check your facts before posting false statements in a public forum. Molten salt reactors experiments go back as far as the 60s and 70s and there are legitimate reasons for it being rejected. First, the production of energy by nuclear reaction comes with the byproduct of nuclear waste, clear and simple. Significant radioactive waste is most definitely associated with molten salt technology. One of the disadvantages of molten salt reactors, and one of the major reasons that it is not currently in use, is that the reactors must be co-located with a reprocessing facility, which increases the risk of conversion to weapons grade plutonium. In addition, the reprocessing chemistry associated with molten salt reactors is very complex. Nuclear reprocessing does not occur in the U.S. because no commercial provider is willing to undertake it due to regulatory risks and associated costs. Second, molten salt reactor design includes complex plumbing, and no suitable material was known at the time that it was under experimentation with which to make the pipes.

The @!$%#s who were responsible for rejecting this technology are treasonous to the world and thus should be skinned alive for going with an unstable design that is fraught with dangerous points that will in time fail and costs 1000x as much to build and produces less energy!!!

There are no evil conspirators attempting to deny the world safer nuclear technology. The Generation IV International Forum, composed of nine countries including the USA, was formed in 2001 specifically for the purpose of searching for safer nuclear technology. One form that is being re-investigated is molten salt technology. Nothing is ever infallible. Rather than being "treasonous" for rejecting molten salt reactor technology as it was at the time of testing, the individuals responsible for rejecting it had good reason to do so and were not trying to deny the world a viable form of nuclear power. You need to stop listening to Fox News, read some reputable research on the topic and form your own opinions rather than accepting those from people who are equally uninformed but have a political agenda.

If containment fails, there will not be debis ejected anywhere. Chernobyl exploded when the core melted and burned its way down to a cooling tank, but what caused the massive fallout was not the explosion per se. It was when the graphite moderator of the reactor core was exposed to the air and caught fire that the problem occurred, because it carried radioactive debris away.

The Fukushima reactors do not have graphite cores. They are light water reactors, which use water as both a coolant and as a neutron moderator; if the water goes away, the nuclear reaction stops.

The current situation is this: the reactor cores have all been shut down, and they have their control rods in place. This means that they are not running at the temperature levels found during normal operatin, and are only generating decay heat, which is what is causing the pressure problems. Decay heat has to be managed by cooling systems, and those were what were damaged in the eqarthquake, so some of the reactor cores are not being properly cooled.

The worst-case scenario was that the water would boil off completely, which means that while the reaction would stop, the decay heat could still cause the fuel core to melt. Depending on a number of factors, this could melt through the bottom of the containment vessel into the concrete below. This would be a gigantic cleanup issue but it's unlikely that any radioactive material would end up outside the facility. Melting through the containment vessel alone is unlikely because of the 8 inches of reactor grade steel containing the core.

This is not the current worst-case scenario, because TEPCO (the electric company that runs the reactor sites) is writing off the problematic reactors and filling them with sea water. This will shut down the reaction, keep the cores from melting, and at the same time destroy the reactors permanently. The cores may experience minor melting (which is technically a "meltdown" but not in the sense that most people think of it) but the odds of any of them completely slagging themselves is very slim at the moment, because there is the sea water method that they know works because they used it on reactor #1.

Right now the question is how many of the Fukushima reactors can be kept going to provide power in this emergency situation, and how many will have to be taken offline either permanently or for a significant amount of time. The odds of any further meltdowns are very slim at the moment, because if things continue to go wrong they will just do to them what they did to reactor #1.

An uncontrolled meltdown is not possible in the manner most people are thinking. Light water reactors are incapable of having runaway reactions; they have a negative void coefficient, which means that if you remove the neutron moderator (in this case water), the reaction stops and you are left with only decay heat. Decay heat is still dangerous but it is not a self-sustaining feedback loop like what happened at Chernobyl.

There are three important things that made the Chernobyl accident possible that the Fukushima reactors do not have.

* Chernobyl was designed with a positive void coefficient. This means that when the neutron moderator was removed, the reaction got stronger. The Fukushima reactors have a negative void coefficient, which means that if you remove the neutron moderator, the reaction slows and eventually stops.

* Chernobyl's core was built on top of a tank of water. This was meant to cool the core if it melted through the containment vessel. Instead, it caused a tremendous steam explosion which tore the facility apart. The Fukushima reactors do not have this and will therefore not explode like that, even if the core melts through the containment vessel.

* Chernobyl used graphite as a neutron moderator. Graphite is flammable, and when the reactor exploded, the radioactive graphite burned and ended up in the atmosphere. The Fukushima reactors use water as a neutron moderator, which is obviously not flammable.

Sam, your whole point was that there was more radiation in a banana. I think everyone conclusively proved that was BS. Seriously, I don't believe there will be a complete meltdown and if there is the containment structure could/may even contain that --- but dude a BANANA? Your hyperbole discredits you from the start.

ABCzyx

Did you read the articles in the links that I provided? Apparently not, because they dispute what you are saying completely!!!!! Learn to read, learn to learn!!! I have my facts straight, how about you!!!
Your statement that molten rector experiments go back to the 60's and 70,s is completely ignorant!!! They go back to the 30's and 40's you idiot!!! God you are so @!$%#ing stupid!!!
As for the pipes statement, you are really really ignorant on that statement!!! Nickel based alloys are used in the fixtures which guarantee long fixture life" Is a direct quote from a report DATED June 1958 for experiments that started IN 1946! The report is from Oak Ridge National Laboratory!!
Furthermore your 2001 meeting of the minds on safe nuclear technology is about 60 years after the fact!!! The safe design was ignored for the unsafe design back in 1952!!! Read you bumbling jerk off!!!! Read Read read!!!
Go to the links that I provided and read them!!!

ABCzyx

...geothermal will cause the planet to eventually freeze...

David - are you really serious?

It never fails to amaze me at just how many people can't quite grasp sarcasm, nor even read a short post & comprehend what was stated in it.

Looks like YOU are the one needing additional schooling. Go back & read my ENTIRE post you were replying to .... 2 or 3 times if necessary. Then you SHOULD be able to see where you jumped the tracks & went down a completely different path than what I actually posted.

Then again, maybe you CAN'T understand what I was doing in that post .... which wouldn't surprise me a bit since I did state that the examples I was using weren't MY beliefs. Evidently you just weren't paying very much attention to what you were reading at the time.

sam w

. Depending on a number of factors, this could melt through the bottom of the containment vessel into the concrete below

in the unlikely event of the fuel melting down into the floor and actually penetrating the containment floor, then it would likely meet the groundwater that is just below the facility( being built on shore, the water is just below the surface) in this event, the result would still be a steam explosion.

even in that extreme scenario, the ejection and spread of material would still be far less than Chernobyl (for the reasons you pointed out).

@ David

"While there was an expensive cleanup, Three Mile Island didn't produce any long term adverse effects on public health."

What??? I am so tired of these kinds of comments and complete disinformation: such as there were no fatalities with TMI, etc. No, there were no explosions or direct fatalities onsite that day - but there was a lot of exposure. There were biased reports on how much people were exposed (claiming less exposure at that time to cover up)and there have been many fatalities in the area of Harrisburg PA since and studies over the years that have proven the utilities completely wrong.

Several studies found elevated cancer rates near Three Mile Island

Published in the Asbury Park Press, Feb. 4, 2005

By Eric Epstein

The Jan. 12 letter "Anti-nuclear argument flawed" from Dr. Letty Goodman Lutzker provided your readership with a textbook example of "junk science."

Lutzker produced an unscientific and emotional argument in support of nuclear power: "These studies include those by the National Cancer Institute examining 90,000 deaths both near to and distant from nuclear plants, and by a Three Mile Island citizens' group after the accident 25 years ago that found no health effects from the small amount of radioactivity released." The facts relating to Three Mile Island and health effects are well documented. There were door-to-door surveys conducted by citizens living close to TMI. Field research documented increased cancer incidences and mortalities in population pockets saturated by radioactive plumes. In 1984, the first Voluntary Community Health Study was undertaken by a group of local residents trained by Marjorie Aamodt. That study found a 600 percent cancer death rate increase for three locations on the west shore of TMI directly in the plumes' pathway. The data were independently verified by experts from the TMI Public Health Fund. The following year, Jane Lee surveyed 409 families living in a housing development five miles from TMI. Lee documented 23 cancer deaths, 45 cancer incidences, 53 benign tumors, 31 miscarriages, stillbirths and deformities, and 204 cases of respiratory problems. These local efforts were matched and documented by area researchers: Richard E. Webb moved to Harrisburg to conduct a health assessment. His Report on Infant Deaths found a "clear statistically significant increase of infant deaths in Dauphin County" in 1979 following the TMI accident. Webb used the Pennsylvania Health Department's vital statistics. A Penn State professor, Winston Richards, reported, "Infant mortality for Dauphin County, while average in 1978, becomes significantly above average in 1980. Death from leukemia, while average in 1979, is very close to above average in 1980, and deaths from cancer for ages 45-64, while average for 1978, become decidedly significantly above average for 1980." James Fenwick, a researcher at Millersville University, found statistically significant increases of prostate, bladder and urinary cancers in men; increased kidney, renal, pelvis and ovarian cancer in women; and small increases in thyroid cancers among men and women. (April 1998)Since Lutzker presented no documentation, I must presume the citizens' study she alluded to is the much-maligned Pennsylvania Department of Health's report released in September 1985. That study's protocol was ridiculed and criticized by epidemiologists at Harvard and Penn State for diluting increases in cancer by expanding the population base to include people living outside the 10-mile study zone. More specifically, the health department placed 28,610 people who lived five miles outside of TMI as actually living within five miles of the plant. And another 122,000 people who lived farther than 10 miles from the plant were included in the population of those living within 10 miles. Unfortunately, none of these studies evaluated the health impact to members of our community who worked on the cleanup of Three Mile Island-2. GPU Nuclear did not maintain a health or cancer registry from 1979-1989, even though 5,000 cleanup workers received "measurable doses" of radiation exposure during the TMI-2 defueling. (source: from tmia dot com/node/101)

WTF is "very close to above average" supposed to mean? that is about as stupid and meaningless of a statement as can possibly exist.

@danwill

Read the article thoroughly. It states what it states and qualifies everything clearly. There is much more information at the Three Mile Island Alert site. Go to: http://www.tmia.com/node/118 also to get more personal interviews of the people who lived there.

DITTO!!

AND, we get to watch 18 straight hours of 'Caught on Camera' RE-RUNS tomorrow... How Sad!

Entertainment!!! News does not sell advertising, entertaining shows do!!!

Simple solution, stop visiting.

Ain't that the truth! There is LIVE news with reguards to the meltdown right now on RT - 2:45am CST.

You can always watch Al Jeezera news - less commercials and less agendas than U S news. Even the BBC is better than the 3 minutes at a time news we get from U S TV.

And don't fall for that TV ad about 2011 end of world whatever it is - that guy already had multi million dollar fines for his scams.

Sometimes I think the mainstream media believes that if they don't cover it, it didn't happen. Most people I meet each day could not tell you what happened in Wisconsin last week. I live in a land of peeps that watched The Bachelor, and then they went to Sonic.

I worry about them.

Sharon, your priorities are a mess. A potential nuclear release due to one of the largest earthquakes in the history of the world is small potatoes compared to getting a pre-taped look at maximum security prisoners in lockup.

Here's my serious advice:

1) Stop watching the mainstream media. They underreport truly major events. Off the top of my head, Michigan is considering a law that would allow financial martial law to be imposed at the will of the Governor, which would remove elected local officials for appointed ones. Terrifying and grossly undemocratic.

2) Get on twitter and find some alternative media sources. Twitter isn't just for celebutantes, and kids who want to tweet about how amusing they find it to be that they left home this morning with mis-matched socks. Our clever Egyptian and Tunisian friends have taught us that.

3) I would also recommend Al-Jazeera for news. They actually report "news" as opposed to having endless talking heads screaming at you.

Now, we return to Lockdown.

Theres a reason MSNBC is at the bottom of the news. The web site isnt to bad. If you go to Fox; then here then yahoo then the balance isnt bad. I also subscribe to NewsMax and I would go to Huffington Post but I am afraid my computer will get a virus. I try to examine both sides if the issues.
BTW: That law in MI you mentioned totally blows me away. Who the heck is proposing that? Forget the nuke meltdown in Japan; what about the fiscal meltdown overhere?

Texas, not to get off the topic of this thread, but that law in Michigan is an absolute disgrace to democracy. In fact, it's not democracy at all. I'm starting to see a pattern here: emergency, loss of rights, fiscal emergency, loss of rights, etc. That needs to stop immediately, and I put the blame on the media for making literally everything an emergency these days.

The real emergency is the law being proposed itself.

They're covering the reactor on, dare I mention?...FOX.

And the quakes on CNN.

Total garbage like so-called "reality TV" is far more important to the average MORON than world events. If it's not affecting them directly then they simply do not care. Like my co workers who were joking about the disaster in Japan today. They were pissed off back in 2001 on 9/11 when celebrations broke out in middle eastern countries after 3000 of our countrymen were murdered but yet they joke about this? It's pathetic. They would rather complain about how hungover they are on a Friday morning and bitch about how they have their kids this weekend from three of their divorces in 5 years than give a damn about anyone else in this world. And we actually wonder why the world hates us?

Sharon i'm sure there is a direct correlation between the bread and circuses we are given and the average american having less than two weeks vacation a year/retiring at 70, and a general quality of life that ranks near bottom for industrial western nations. We are trained to be passive, or we would start demanding 5 weeks a year and age 62 like the EU. Try the BBC or French television.

and the average american having less than two weeks vacation a year/retiring at 70, and a general quality of life that ranks near bottom for industrial western nations. We are trained to be passive, or we would start demanding 5 weeks a year and age 62 like the EU.

Tyr-

The problem here is that you've bought into the BS. If you weren't planning on the government retirement plan and saved/invested for yourself, you could retire at whatever age you're ready. Secondly, you chosen to believe that you are entitled to paid vacation. If you ask, your employer will certainly give you more time off, just don't expect it to be paid. Or, choose a different career path such as being an independent contractor of some sort and set your own schedule. And my bet is that the EU won't exist when I reach 62 because of the excessive "rights" they've bestowed on the people. They will certainly end in financial collapse.

Exactly Atlas. Great post.

Nuclear power has to be balanced against other problems. A light water reactor can't have a Chernobyl-type disaster. However, a radiation release can affect the immediate surroundings. But coal power will cause even more cancer, just spread out.

Nuclear power concentrates the damage in the vicinity of the plant, which makes it seem more dangerous. But plenty of people have died because they lived 50 miles downwind of a conventional power plant that burns fossil fuels and developed lung problems later.

There are many different technologies at many different cost levels and danger levels. What we need is rational thought and analysis, not knee-jerk responses pro or con.

MSNBC plays to a liberal audience of conservative haters (gives me a headache listening to their nit-picking) but it's a smaller audience so they don't have the money for something like real news. lol

As to the Japan situation....why are their high-rise buildings earthquake proof but not their nuclear facilities?

Rich, you are absolutely correct.

I wondered initially on why in the world they would build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake prone area. The answer was posted above and it makes sense, Japan does not have the natural resources for gas or coal and nuclear was the best option.

Coal is a dirty power source? when the last coal plant was built...back in the mid to late 70's (I think). They did not have the technology or the information that we have now and just built the darn things. Now, the technology is available, and it is cost efficient, to build MUCH cleaner facilities. But because nobody want to actually educate themselves on the cleaner plants, except the power companies, they will not be built. We had a prime example of this in Iowa about 2 years ago.

Windmills take land that is typically used for crop production and kills birds.

if there is less land available for crops, the supply of the crop will decrease and the price for your food will go up....

Solar works great, unless like here in Iowa, there are day's of no sun and lots of ice.....

Ethanol can also be made using grain, thus placing another demand on a limited supply. I know that corn based ethanol is not made of the same corn that we eat, but it is made of the same corn that is fed to the livestock, that we eat (well I do, and it tastes great) The same argument applies for switchgrass

Battery powered cars...come on.....they require electricity to charge them, and to produce electricity we need.....Also, not everyone lives in a climate that is between 50 to 80 degrees year round. The charge is affected by the climate, here in Iowa, we have temps that range from 110 to -20. A battery does not last long in these temps.

I don't understand why we cannot drill for oil, build new fuel refineries and power plants, use the fuels that we have now AND advance the technologies of the alternate fuels. The only other option is to shut down....EVERYTHING...and get used to reading by candlelight, riding horses, and sailboats.

Just a random thought.....

And my Prayers are going out to all of those affected by this tragedy.....

We could tap all of the oil reserves under the U.S., but even then we really don't have enough here to satisfy all of our needs. We'd still be importing a lot of oil, just not as much.

We need to pursue Thorium based reactor technology. We also need to develop much more geothermal power, as the Western States have many places that could be tapped. SE Idaho has large deposits of Thorium basically sitting in and around the INL. The INL also sits in an area that has great geothermal potential, from there all the way to the Yellowstone Cauldera. The energy potential to be had just around Yellowstone Park is tremendous. States like Nevada and Arizona that get a lot of Sun should also be developing a lot of solar power systems.

Diversification of our energy sources really is our only practical option.

p.s. Lockdown is not on right now. Surprisingly, they are covering the news on a Saturday.

Sharon-

You can bet if there were any breaking news about the DNC or Dem/Libs they would interrupt their regularly scheduled programming pronto-!

We interrupt Lockdown to bring you this breaking news! Charlie Sheen has been taken to the hospital again.

A partial nuclear meltdown in Japan, eh...who cares.

Sharon,

If you get your news from Facebook then I feel sorry for you. Gee, ever heard of Google News? You might want to check it out as there are links to thousands of stories from media all over the world.

Get news from Facebook, gee give me a break...

Texas 505356: Thank You. I'm really tired of the media dominating our airwaves about the earthquake and tidal wave event in that country: that country that still thinks it's superior to the rest of the world; that country that robbed me of ever knowing my grandfather; that country that TERRORIZED my parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, uncles, aunts, and others above the skies of Honolulu that fateful day. Call me bitter? That's MY prerogative, not yours. We, and the American soldiers who valiantly fought for your freedom and liberty today, HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE BITTER about a country that NEVER even apologized after all these decades for what it did. Those of us up there in years, we have THIS event to placate us and gain a sense of satisfaction that PROVIDENCE is NOT on the side of the Jap(anese). This event almost concludes what needed to be done in northern Japan after the atomic bombing of their nation in the SOUTHERN part of Japan. Those who care more about them than our own veterans and victimized civilians should either be deported there or shot.

I had noticed that too, Friday night. Normally a devout watcher of MSNBC I turned to the channel thinking that in light of the tsunami and the problems at the reactors that they would not show their block-to-block episodes of Lockup... but sure enough when I changed to the channel Lockup was on. Now, I've instead resorted to watching CNN, which has had non-stop coverage about the tsunami. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why MSNBC is still broadcasting Lockup in light of the situation. Actually, I don't understand why they broadcast Lockup all weekend long, every weekend, to begin with. It's a new channel for crying out loud... not a criminal justice channel!

I won't even try to get into the debate about nuclear power, but to have built multiple reactors in an area so prone to catastrophic earthquakes as Japan seems the height of arrogance. There was plenty of internal opposition to the construction, but it was suppressed in the name of progress so that the construction firms could make a killing. Given the amount of news about the spill that has reached us. it's a sure bet that the actual level of danger is much higher than we are being led to believe.

Sharon,

Well gee, guess what? MSNBC is not the only TV station to show news. Go to CNN, which probably has the best coverage, and you can watch it, and this is no exaggeration, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, to the then power.

Amish: social democracies don't need "insurance" sold to them, lol. The brunt of a cataclysm are born by a whole society, not by the poor like in the uSA

If I lived six miles from the plant, I would check the weather for the prevailing wind direction and drive in the opposite direction as fast as I could for as long as I could. Forget Iodine. That takes care of only radioactive Iodine absorption. Based on the absence of information leading up to the loss of the containment structure, I wouldn't trust a thing I heard from the government. They probably wouldn't have mentioned that either if there hadn't been actual video of the explosion.

Agreed, but, doesn't the LEVEL of radiation matter!

Amish, what are you talking about? And if you're really Amish, what the hell are you doing on a computer?

Please click on Amish's "!" symbol and report him as either "No Value" or "Inflammatory" or "Advertising". Get this junk out of our way!

Well, are you high right now? You're not even forming sentences. You seem like a nutcase to me. Are you saying that you're not a practicing Mennonite? Forget it, I don't want to know.

That's the point. You're not discussing the Japanese at all. You keep posting and reposting about how radiation and how we all take it in everyday. If that's all you want us to get then great, you've made your point already. No one lives a single day without being exposed to radiation. Got it.

That doesn't mean that I should feel totally at ease when I see reports of leaks at a nuclear facility. I could not be less afraid of the threat you just made in that post. You are truly insane however.

Like I said, your point is made. No reason to fear radiation. I disagree with that proposition, your religious nonsense and your aggressive attitude in general. As for the Japanese, I truly hope their government's response team is more capable than you.

My friend, you are all over the place with your thoughts. Complacency, Japanese, exclamation points??? If the problem is just misunderstanding then just stop posting so quickly and organize yourself. I literally have no idea what side of this debate you are on because your posts are manic, aggressive and incoherent. And a true sense of what the Japanese are going through? What does that even mean? Like have I been through an earthquake or a nuclear disaster? Do I feel sympathy? The answers are no and yes in that order.

Then we are agreed. I have ran a marathon on the present coexisting factors of radiation people have to live with. But when a reactor messes up, OH no,No Nuclear Power.That is where I have to back up and hold the line. Oil isnt producing any better results. The Japanese are remarkable people. They fix that up also.

That I understood. Just chill out a little, and you'll convince people of your points much more successfully.

You're OK in my book. You just make me unsettled with the way your mind hops from topic to seemingly unrelated topic. Your point that no one complains about nuclear power until an accident happens is well taken, however. I personally would prefer if we could work on solar and wind energy to power people's homes, but there's no money in that for big business, so here we are.

Funny thing is I have an omni directional wind turbine I have been working details on.Uses no Vanes, and I will patent it

Not too mention another patent for Automobiles.:) It is something amazing to me. I have a cousin who worked with the Japanese on pharmecuiticals,ex. The Japanses, They would be the first ones I would let take a crack at my idea. Thats if DIA wouldnt want to first.

If you get it working, get ready to retire. Your kids as well. In fact, pretty much everyone you're friends or kin with will never have to work again if you get that thing to work.

The Japanese are the way they are because of 1 American guy.His Name I cant remember but Henry Ford laughed at him.He then went to the only nation that Understood him,Japan. There are plenty of idea's shelved. If you create something someone is making in secret and you don't know.You stuff gets confiscated.Check out the Black Light Engine,and a host of other inventions

I think it's official. Amish is a whacked-out nutcase. Case closed.

frogcycle - Unfortunately the "case" won't be closed until a Newsvine moderator deletes all of his posts and bans his IP. Or at the very least give him a 24 hour suspension. But I suspect they will get to him soon enough. The more he babbles the closer he gets to getting banned.

He just wants attention (that's pretty obvious from the number of his repetitive posts) Unfortunately for the rest of us we have to wade through his ramblings to get the discussion back on track.

I'd love to be a moderator here, it would give me immense pleasure to sweep the trolls, misfits and agitators out the door.

Amish: Free speech, blah blah blah....When you actually have something worth saying you are free to say it....preferable just ONCE.

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen.have any of you ever heard of the word TROLL?

this Amish blabber mouth is just that a bonified official TROLL. until this bananna brain is swept off of here. there's one word applying to this one.it's called IGNORE!

@Amish77 - you have made some thoughtful, valid points, and they have even been mostly on topic. In addition I, for one, do find you rather entertaining. However, I do agree with carvelle33 - it tends to get lost in your presentation. Look no further than gloria fabiaschi's, DeAvo's and frogcycle's posts - they obviously don't get you at all. Not that you probably care in the least, but they and others might actually benefit from your points if they understood them. Well, maybe. I'd just like to point out the obvious - NV isn't Twitter. This medium presents the opportunity to construct and present more extended, coherent, well reasoned and logically organized arguments rather than a steady trickle of 140 character stream-of-consciousness statements. But then you already knew that.

Funny. I never knew Charlie Sheen was Amish.

Now that was a pleasant over view,Thank you

"well isee FireguyPA is another cheerleader for the TSA goon squad. RAH RAH RAH AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. oh one other thing you don't jack dung about the constitution. you're a lot of HOT AIR.you haven't a clue." is what Gloria Fabiaschi wrote to another concerned Citizen. Gloria, can you actually have enough technical knowledge to actually do something for science or are you a user. I bet you couldnt care less about the poor Japanese Heroes going in and stopping that reactor.

If there was an Earthquake, would you deny me the ability to save you or wait for someone else. Would you deny my hand if it came through the rubble and saved you. I protected this land in the USA on 9-11 what did you do? Help the Japanese out and keep the topic on faith,hope and chairity

Hell Amish, Aimish, or whatever, i care more than you ever will, in your miserable life time.ypou sir are a user. i don't think you know the meaning of word caring. wait yes you do, for yourself, that you're, your whole world. by way troll, what the hell does the TSA have to do with this thread?

yup goes to prove one thing, you have no freaken idea of what the hell you're talking or writting about.

you wouldn't have the balls or guts to try and go down and stop those nuclear reactors.you're nothing more than a big blabber mouth.

The source of information.That's what matters.Gloria,are your trying to pollute the honest objectives of people coming to cope on these matters. I do believe you have allot to offer.As far as The US government is concerned, I am qualified to respond to such a disaster. I worked on US Navy Aircraft carriers and have such appropriate education. If the Department of Energy asked for volunteers, I would go help the Japanese. An American Citizen is not allowed to interact,especially with the know how and knowledge. All Obama needs is to send people like me.Stop feeding people Socratic Red Herring's. Keep it about helping the Japanese

My world has been Nuclear energy.My world is not about oil.US has the best safeguards and ability. There have been more deaths by Alcohol,Motorized Transportation, and other combination of factors than Commercial Nuclear Power Plants of The USA. I am a technician by trade. The Japanese thing is Scary but we in the US wouldn't build over a fault line.

If I so much as left the US to work on an Energy project overseas, I would be placed on a NO FLY ZONE. Don't think for a moment that the Department of Energy is not helping the Japanese handle the incident. So as it matters to the Japanese,they need all the TECHNICAL help they can get.How about you pray or hope they will make it through ok

first of all i'm not pollutting or feeding people anything .instead of babbling on here, get your ass in gear and at least go try to help. call them up, inquire just do something.i can't go i would if i could but i'm not in any position.

Please stop responding to Amish, he's been spamming the board all day and ignoring him is the only helpful response.

@Gloria, Yes you've correctly identified Amish as a troll. And what is the number one rule for trolls? DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!!

You can ignore them, report them, block them, deny them....Just don't FEED them!

okay i'll quit!you're right he is a troll.i wrote it first i'm wrong for engaging this guy, or whatever.

It only matters that I am glad that we can communicate with words rather than swords.

I am not a troll but I yield to the fact that my ideals aren't a fit for all.But If I had to be the last person to say that Anyone is capable of saving your life,even a Troll. The Japanese "trolls" march Daily in front of Yokuska Naval Base.They are only grinning about this disaster

By the way DevAvo, I do not disagree with all of your posts. I am 50% biased while you are 100% biased towards my opinions. We can agree that the Japanese need help and hope.

By the way,Gloria I can learn something from but It goes nowhere with DevAvo. I Could get to more complicated subjects with Gloria than you DevAvo. How are you gonna help the Japanese DevAvo?

Stop feeding people Socratic Red Herring's. Keep it about helping the Japanese

Help the Japanese out and keep the topic on faith,hope and chairity

If I told you I had a warp drive the size of a coffee table and I didnt give it to uncle Sam first.Guess what? I would be locked up. If I told you I could stop melt downs or any variety of things. Poppa o'Boma wants it first

Amish, you seem very critical of others, but I don't see anything about the Japanese in your last post-or faith, hope, or charity.

Check out the Black Light Engine,and a host of other inventions

A Bing search for "Black Light Engine" revealed nothing.

I don't believe you are a troll but I'm not sure you are in reality either. You claim your life is about nuclear power but then you say the US would never build a nuclear power plant over an earthquake fault. Surely you would know about this:

WASHINGTON, DC, April 14, 2009 (ENS) - The federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission has concluded the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant would withstand the effects of a potential new fault line off the California coast.

Pacific Gas & Electric, which operates the plant 12 miles southwest of San Luis Obispo, California, notified the NRC in November 2008 about the potential Shoreline Fault, approximately 15 kilometers in length located one kilometer (.6 mile) offshore from the Diablo Canyon power plant.

PG&E provided the commission with data from the company�s collaboration with the U.S. Geological Survey regarding the potential fault.

from ens-newswire.com
It's not on top of a fault but very near one, and an offshore one at that.
Further news about the plant includes this:

NEW YORK, March 11 | Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:43am EST

NEW YORK, March 11 (Reuters) - PG&E Corp (PCG.N) declared an "unusual event" at the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant in California due to a tsunami warning, which is a normal operating procedures, a spokesman at the NRC told Reuters Friday...
Both reactors at Diablo Canyon were operating normally and at full capacity.

from reuters.com regarding the recent tsunami warning after the massive earthquake in Japan.

If I so much as left the US to work on an Energy project overseas, I would be placed on a NO FLY ZONE.

If you create something someone is making in secret and you don't know.You stuff gets confiscated.

.

Guess what? I would be locked up.

You also sound rather paranoid and I'm not sure what you mean by being placed "on a NO FLY ZONE." A no fly zone is an area where military planes are not allowed to fly. Do you mean a "no fly LIST?" Why? What on earth have you done that you would be put on a no fly list?

Look, this is not meant to be a big list of criticisms. You could certainly hit me with plenty. Maybe just a reality check for you. Because, Amish, you sound like your reality is a little shaky. Many people find it hard to communicate in a situation like that, also when you communicate with such a flight of ideas-jumping from one thing to the next in ways that hardly make sense. I agree with your point about people suddenly freaking about nuclear power when there is a problem despite the fact that it has an extremely good safety record overall. I ALSO agree with you 100% that the Japanese need our help and that is the main thing this is about.

BTW, if you are going for art/literature, this is DEFINITELY the wrong forum!

Sharon Taylor, where would we be without your ilk?

A lot better off!

Seen to Much, now that was well led constructive criticism. I am glad theres people who can do that in that fassion. As for Nuclear Power, The USS Abraham Lincoln is Nuclear Powered. ALL of You wanting the US to help,we are and We are sending a Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier to deal with this Japanese Plight.

So get off the Perils of Nuclear power or Should We turn the Lincoln Around?

AKA other than Seen too much, Theres smart then theres smart ass punitive measure such as Slanderl that rest assured,you could proudly donate the money I would win in court to the Japanese.But you Hide behind your Pen Names but you ought to devote time to solutions not time on peoples faults. Uphold your beliefs and practice freedom of speech,no matter the contraries someone gives you or Me, .

Correction,it is the Reagan who's helping the Japanese

MR. Lieberman, Commercial Nuclear power has caused less deaths than Alcohol, and Automobiles. Do you want us to stop making Automobiles? Or Stop drinking Alcohol . Which Ever, Mothball all of OUR NUCLEAR POWERED AIRCRAFT CARRIERS you say, Hmm carefull what you wish for Congressmen Lieberman. I am pretty sure the Japanese like the sight of our NUCLEAR POWERED AIRCRAFT CARRIER rescuing them. Lord Knows I was protecting your ass on a Nuclear Powered Submarine.

COAL MINING HAS also cause more deaths than COMMERCIAL NUCLEAR POWER, Give it up for KING COAL.

Amish: You got that RIGHT about the Reagans. Ever since Nixon, I vote Republican, but that was one Republican I never supported. He bowed to feminist pressure to allow women in the actual armed forces, not ever having to face combat or the front lines, yet are paid the same as the male soldiers. He made reparations to Jap-Ams. of our tax $$$ yet they deserved to have been interned because many of them WERE Japan-sympathizers and WERE spies.

basing your opinion on modern nuclear energy on a 40 year old design is a really good idea!

How about that nuclear reactor 96 million miles away? Whhm.Too close?

By the way there are > 10 reactors sitting within 5 miles of where I live. US Nuclear energy is SAFE.ITS IS RELIABLE.It is Our future.

King Fahd and ALL OF YOU WHO freak out about oil.You keep America back.

Nuclear Power has never brought about Climate Change. The Sun is the Best

Example of Nuclear power. OIL has brought about climate change, Uranium has NOT!!!

You want radiation exposure, Smoke a Cigarette whilst Sunbathing.

You receive less living besides a reactor

The moratorium on nuclear plants is stupid. It means we're stuck with ancient, crumbling technology. A nuclear plant designed with modern technology would be much more efficient and safe. They would create jobs and help wean us off foreign energy.

Better yet,Smoke a Cigarette while sunbathing using a cell phone messing with your Smoke detector(Its radioactive) and using a microwave getting your sandwich hot.

Geez Amish, we heard you the first time. Stop spamming the forum. Even better: Stop spamming the forum with inane, ridiculous comments!

Why do these people always crawl out of the woodwork or from under a rock when these kind of stories get reported. If there are that many crazy people out there, I'm staying in my house for fear of exposure (and not from radiation...from stupidization)

The human mind tends to look for patterns, to make order out of chaos. This tendency has created some of human-kind's greatest achievements and greatest embarrassments.You said it best

Would't you Agree DevAvo. I suggest you eat Humble Pie like I do.

Crazy people like me supported African American rights and Nuclear Power

the govt doesn't want to be off foreign energy...The govt is in bed with big oil. why else to we give them(big oil) tax breaks while they make billions. Money gets contributed to campaigns for both republicans and democrats. I think modern nuclear power can be safely implemented.

Those of you still worried about the raradicalisation of Islam...and Mosques, I'm sitting here and some extremist libratarianwas plotting to kill a bunch of state troopers and a federal judge..... all the persons arrested were white Americans.....suppose we should round up all white people(including myself) and lock them(us) up...

Crazy people like me supported African American rights and Nuclear Power

Amish- You are an interesting contradition. You make an apparently enlightened comment like the one above immediately following the rather racist comment:

I will take a Nulcear reactor in my back yard OVER A MOSQUE!!!

Odd. There have been several deadly and life threatening accidents at nuclear reactors in the U.S., but never anything like that from a Mosque.

Shawn, stop your flaming. The point you were trying to make was stupid and invalid.

Fossil fuels also result in radiation exposure for the general public.

I will take acres of windmills & solar panels any day rather than have a nuclear plant in my backyard, unfortunely there is one about an hour from here.

Anytime something like this happens, I feel very sorry for these people, everything has changed in a matter of minutes.

never anything like that from a Mosque You mean like the Northern Virginia Mosque with ties to both 9/11 (nearly 3000 innocent people slaughtered) and the Fort Hood massacre (13 dead and another 31 injured)??

I'd rather live next to the Prairie Island Nuclear Power Plant in Red Wing, Minnesota, than anywhere that is earthquake prone. Nuclear power doesn't scare me near as much as the ground shaking and opening beneath my feet.

The only problem is, it's too dang cold in Minnsnowta.

Most people that passed through Ellis Island,including Japanese, did so accordingly.It Bares down to there was ever a struggle for religious freedom for those Immigrants.They did it. This Land was Planted with Europeans,Native Americans,African Americans,ex. MAndt- We didnt haul ANY Muslim in like We did for those Americans that Were Of Japanese or German Descent.They were jst as feared and moved to interment camps. You can attach racial madness to any statements but you will not see me attack Mecca in the way your People attacked New York.

My Church never says to go and attack Muslims.Ask the Japanese how they feel? They got it from us allot worse. Since when did you say its ok to kill me or my kind with religious encroachment or continual march to Silence your contemporaries. Keep it about the Japanese,Senator King will take care of this issue.

Yes, the situation is dangerous, no we are not going to see Japan sink into the ocean or become unihabitable.

We're not?

I wish I could be so sure. Especially about the uninhabitable part.

I just watched the whole damn building explode, broadcast on the news in Japan...there is no more wondering if anything is likely or not -- it has happened. I won't be eating the fish here for awhile. Doug Williams is right, the shock wave was enormous.

We have the dreaded nuclear catastrophe upon us, right now, this moment.

Japan's media is covering the explosion. Apparently they think it's important.

AFP and Japan's NHK TV reported a blast at Fukushima No. 1 atomic plant about 3.30pm (7.30NZT), 250 kilometres northeast of Tokyo. The Tokyo Electric Power Company - which runs the plant - says four workers were injured.

Public broadcaster NHK showed delayed footage of smoke billowing from the site, also reporting that the reactor building had been destroyed.

Footage on Japanese TV showed that the walls of one building had crumbled, leaving only a skeletal metal frame block standing. Puffs of smoke were spewing out of the plant.

TV channels warned nearby residents to stay indoors, turn off air-conditioners and not to drink tap water. People going outside were also told to avoid exposing their skin and to cover their faces with masks and wet towels.

An emergency medical team - including doctors, nurses, and experts on radiation measurement - was dispatched to Fukushima this morning by the health ministry.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/japan-tsunami/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503051&objectid=10711892

I think this is vitally important. The Japanese could be facing even more devastation.

Oh, give me a break with the "they tell it like it is" crap. Corporations have self-interested agendas. Corporations own the mainstream media. Therefore, the mainstream media has self-interested agendas, which is upsetting because they front like they're there for you. Watch all the news channels or none of them. Watching one will kill your mind.

The "other" news stations are crap! It's all political, with all their double talk and skating around the issue/s, It is written: let your yea be yea and your nay, nay, all else is evil........

Watching Fox news isn't evil but believing it's the only one that isn't biased is proof of insanity.

I guess they have experienced the REAL worst case scenario. I don't want to sound like a non environmentalist but all this worrying about global warming pales in comparison to the Nuke threat facing the world. Here's the proof folks. You don't need a nut job to drop the bomb. One natural disaster in an area with the potential to cause devastation far beyond the Natural part. I think if you read the article correctly there are two more facilities damaged and in jeopardy of over heating.

I hear the thunder
Three miles away
The island's leaking
Into the bay
The poison is spreading
The demon is free
And people are running from
What they can't even see.

I would have to agree but your statement is right on the money.

You are a forward thinker.

I expect,when the Sun blows up in three BILLION YEARS,the People on this planet will recognize you as Nostrodamian.

That is a true fact but many years delayed until you would be right.

The earth will cease to exist if the Sun Blows up.That is our Total Sum limit for life on Planet Earth. Hey,lets get off this rock before we do and back up the efforts to get US to Star Trek abilities. I am not kidding.

Listen troll freak I have no Idea whay you are talking about. Is this your clever troll way of distraction gor your masters?? As Jackson Brown put it NO NUKES MF.

Earthquakes, millions of dead fish for no apparent reason, birds dying, again for no realistic reason, climate and weather changes, I am no bible thumper, but either God is trying to tell man something, or he is coming very soon, I am truly afraid for my kids.

NoMoMoney-962921

The Earth has already ended 3 or more times. I love and enjoy Gods good Graces. I hope you do also and pray for the Japanese.Pray for Obama. Enact your rights,all amendments of the Constitution. Fear sells but so does good vibes. Take care.

Pray and Obama should never be used in the same sentence.

I agree Nomomoney. Looking back in retrospect, when folks thought the world was going to end back then the events that led up to the belief that this was going to happen were childsplay compared to now. We've left no stone unturned. There is nothing left to prove, nothing is immoral, nothing is over the line. People have been secularized, polarized, isolated and pretty much hate each other. We put the sanctity of the lives of animals above the lives of humans, we pride ourselves on killing unborn babies, make political minions of our children in schools instead of educating them. Yes my friend, we are through and I have a level of peace an acceptance of this. Our turn in the natural disaster mill is coming, it's a matter of hours, days or weeks. But who could argue we don't deserve it? I simply can't believe it hasn't happened yet.

Oklahoma had 700 earthqaukes last year after starting the frackingts the gas fracking .Stop the experimental gas fracking ,everywhere!Now oil companys are in my backyard in northern Colorado wanting to frack.Wait untill they set off the Yellowstone Supervolcano.Im saying goodbye to you all now as Ill never survive that one.In western Colorado ,one lady can light her water with a flame from the fracking.STOP THE FRACKING FOR GAS.

NMM, this is not God's doing this is man's. God is not trying to tell you anything - the planet is, PAY ATTENTION.

As Jackson Brown put it NO NUKES MF

I still recall a big no nukes rock concert outside Diablo Canyon where Jackson played back in the mid 70s. Kind of ironic to have a high amp, high powered concert decrying nuclear energy. Of course, if we depend on oil, we can expect more oil slicks that also destroy the environment. Coal, which is also dirty and claims the lives of miners monthly isn't the future, either. No free lunch when everyone wants everything charged up and running all the time.

And as for those claiming God's hand in this, Japan sits on one of THE major fault lines on the globe. They've had several major quakes in the last century. If you live on a fault line, you're going to catch it sooner or later. As a matter of fact, we ALL catch it sooner or later. It is a tragedy that these folks caught it so badly, especially when you consider that Japan is about as quake ready as any country can be.

As Jackson Brown put it NO NUKES MF

Would that be the same Jackson Brown who sings anti-war songs and songs about peace and then proceeds to smack up his movie star girlfriend??