Put every contract proposal on the ballot and let those who are going to pay for it (the tax payers) vote on it with the results binding.

For example, "Do you favor the Union request for a 5% raise, or the offer of the State of 3%"?

No need for the Unions to make further contributions to any Public Office holder because they would no longer have a vote in the matter. Saves the Union money (fewer political contributions) saves the Union Members money (no need to raise dues for political contributions) and resolves all the issues timely and finally. Everyone is a winner!......except maybe the politicians who have to find another revenue source!

If you are so willing to deny unions the right to support candidates then how about rescinding Citizens United and shutting down the corporate donors of the republic party. How about asking Americans if they want to give tax cuts to corporate America at the expense of the middle class. People need to wake up. The republicans have never been and will never be supportive of the middle/working class. Theya re too busy accepting money from the likes of Dick Army, Mrs. Clarence Thomas, and of course the Koch brothers. Shameless lot.

I think you are dead on TARGET! Put it on the general election ballot and vote on it every 2 years. It's fair and it will work.

I hope these lawmakers have enjoyed their jobs. I have the feeling they won't have them much longer.

October 1917 the workers council (union) overthrew the Russian government. All citizens were stripped of private property, ownership, and rights in a failed attempt at a socialized utopia. This move failed utterly and the people were ruled under the iron fist of a totalitarian regime. The end result was that all gave all in the pretend concept of equality or wealth redistribution, and got very little in return.....except for the party cronies which equates to union leaders. The end result was that it was unsustainable and now Russia is no longer the ussr......and it is now a free market society and doing better than it ever has.

Granted witch I think your comment and my rebuttal are both a bit over the top. This doesn't even come close to equating to either of our examples. The people of WI were ruled poorly by democrats for the last 10 years and decided it was time to throw the bums out. Now.....they have to live with the current elected officials doing something unheard of......trying to fulfill their campaign promises.

2 MASSIVE leaps of logic here:"....except for the party cronies which equates to union leaders. " FALSE.

"..now Russia is no longer the ussr......and it is now a free market society and doing better than it ever has." FALSE

Try reading up a little bit on the happenings in Russia these days. Obviously, you will be suprised.

Dan,

kinda like the way the mob controled unions ...get kickbacks for sanitation and construction bids from politians?

Of course it was in the name of the little guys...the workers, that they scammed off the top of their union investment funds....Jimmy Hoffa is alive!

Union members are tax payers too. Exactally the same taxes as everyone else does. So your idea is to have every one except those affected by the issue to decide. Then the union people should get to vote on issues that affect you without you having a choice too. It's easy to make comments that don't effct your own life. Study after study has shown union workers make less than the private sector workers. Union workers have not had any raises for many years now. When private sector employees have gotten cost of living raises.

I sure wish there was a course in what a union really is for the uninformed. A union is a true democracy. The employees are the union. Each local has its own officials and every member gets a chance to vote for or against the contract. Majority rules.

Union dues do not go to supporting politicians. The unions have PAC funds and it is up to member as to whether or not to contribute. Political campaign money is voluntary.

Without collective bargaining, we the people, the worker, will have nothing. We must fight for the right to collective bargain. We all have to stand in solidarity to win back our right to do so.

The problem, Huskergal, is that there have been multiple sessions of classes conducted daily since 1988 - classes designed to teach the opposite of what you advocate, and the instructors - Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al - have sold lies as truth to a gullible public.

I agree with your premise, people are misinformed and uninformed. Overcoming that nonstop disinformation barrage from the right is going to take some serious effort.

Let's start with reinstating the Fairness Doctrine. Boehner's already got a proposal cooking to permanently ban anything resembling that rule from any future reinstatement. I'd have to question the Constitutional basis for what he's got in mind, but the fact remains that the Repubs know that by killing the Fairness Doctrine, they have created a virtually bulletproof propaganda machine and they'd like to keep it that way. It's time to cut that guy's agenda off at the knees.

This is not the Fascist States of America - let's keep it that way.

I recognize that. Now they need to learn the truth and they are heading toward learning through experience.

"I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler."

--Jon Stewart

Kenn, I like your plan as long as I get to vote on your salary!

So why did WI vote the Rethugblicans into office?? Try to remember that when it comes time for the next election in all States. Do your own research on the candidates rather than listening to the nasty campaign ads bought by the wealthy pampered elitists, like the Koch family. Many thanks, too, to the Supreme Court Judges who opened the doors wide for Big Businesses to donate unlimited campaign funds from anywhere (including foreigners) without revealing who they are. Now Big Businesses are allowed more public say than the everyday working Constituents, because the wealthy have all the money to blow during the elections rather than hiring new workers that they refer to as the "Little People". Elderly seniors need to think twice about who they vote for because they are next on the chopping block with SS and Medicare. You get exactly what you vote for!!!

Of course, the Newsvine LIBERALS say that the WI Reps will pay a political price, but that is just WISHFUL THINKING.

The many more POLITICIANS voted for this measure because THE WILL OF THE WI PEOPLE. That is why there will not be any political ramifications.

To irenermiscione-1:
Your comment, to quote you.:

"If you are so willing to deny unions the right to support candidates then how about rescinding Citizens United and shutting down the corporate donors of the republic party. How about asking Americans if they want to give tax cuts to corporate America at the expense of the middle class. People need to wake up. The republicans have never been and will never be supportive of the middle/working class. Theya re too busy accepting money from the likes of Dick Army, Mrs. Clarence Thomas, and of course the Koch brothers. Shameless lot."

From An Independent Thinker: This above comment hits the target dead center. Well said!! You could also add, why are Big Businesses allowed to have LOBBYISTS pushing their business company agenda through? They are no different than a Union and very costly to the working class tax payers. The corruptible lobbyists job positions need to be eliminated 100%. Their salaries are outrageous and much of what they support is never for the good of the Constituents. Their only interest is for Big Business and the wealthy pampered elite. The WI Gov. came into his office with a surplus and immediately gave the extra money to his business buddies for tax deductions, etc. Then the hypocrite turns around and goes after the public sector jobs (that did not support him in his election) to make the budget cuts in their benefits. If you are going to take away the bargaining rights from some of the public jobs, then it is ONLY FAIR that you take away the exact same benefits from the police and fire fighters as well, who get paid way more than teachers, etc., whose lives lately seem to be at risk as well. Every single teacher, etc. that this Bill affects needs to collectively go on strike for the sake of their professions until the SAME RIGHTS ARE APPLIED TO ALL THE PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS. Then when it comes to the next election event, please try to remember what their real agenda is about :To preserve the wealth for the elite and enforce "Corporate Slavery" after eliminating the minimum hourly wages while boosting their bonuses and pay, as-well-as eliminate all social programs for the less fortunate and sick, to privatize or apply big cuts to the SS and Medicare. Then ask yourselves where are the cuts to the wealthy and Big Business??? The answer is: NONE what so ever!!! The budget cuts are all aimed at the middle class and poor. When are you going to say enough to this B.S. and stand up for your democratic rights??

Speaking of State and Govt. budget cuts, why are the soldiers not brought back from the two very LONG and COSTLY WARS (and now they are contemplating on putting a stop to the Libya problems by sending troops over there)?? There' are no budget cuts in the Defense Dept..; but there is an increase in that budget to include approximately $1.5 Billion or more for 100, C-17 airplanes that not one of the of the Military Branches want or feel the need to have. Supposedly, though the Govt. has already offered a contract for those 100 costly planes at approximately 150 million for each plane that the military branches have expressed is not needed. The U.S. cannot the protector of the entire world, esp. when they can't seem to get their own budget under control or take care of the needs of their own homeless people first. TV News has said: the Central FL alone has more than 4,000 homeless veterans that would loved to have a job to include the 9 job positions the VA Government Contractors gave to illegal aliens to build the VA Hospital in Orlando (some hiding in the ceilings when Homeland Security made unannounced visits). But did they fire the Contractors for hiring the illegal workers and offer the Contract to a new group?? Not that I have heard of. A local VA Volunteer commented that no one seems to pay attention anymore to Vets being given extra points for Government job positions; because the jobs are given to other less qualified and without the consideration of points for the Vets' service. It's who you know, are related to, and not for what you have done nowadays for the protection of your Country. However, the Census Bureau did offer the Vets the desk jobs first, and then gave the supervisory positions to a majority of the minorities. So why didn't they offer the supervisory job positions to the qualified Veterans first, which there were plenty of available??

Isn't it interesting what a warmonger Obama has turned out to be.

Back to the subject - Public Unions should not exist, by nature this leads to too much control of our money (taxpayers) by the unhealthy relationship between these public employees and the elected officials who can otherwise affect their jobs / policies / payback...

It's sad to see the sky-is-falling crowd exaggerate like a teenager rather than have a reasoned discussion. Running away, classic immature, childish irresponsible behavior.

RepubliCONS and the Tea-cutters have gone wild! And their actions will make it impossible for ANY RepubliCON to win votes as even dog-catchers (my appologies to the real dog-catchers).

Wake up American middle class, sick, and poor individuals!!! The Republican Philosophy of reforming the Govt. is to strip all the middle class and poor of their rights, social welfare programs, and to herd them into "Corporate Slavery" while expanding their elite "Corporate Welfare" programs for enriching their own many benefits of greedy deep pockets. Ask yourself what benefits cuts have been asked of the elite, and take a very close look at what level, the Govt. cuts are being made to give up????? Have anymore jobs resulted from the business tax breaks (definitely not in my State which has higher than the national average of unemployed persons). WI had a surplus, which the Gov. gave to big business for tax cut benefits, etc. Now he's coming after you ("little people" as referred to by the elite) that didn't back him during the election period, and still don't back his Gestapo demands even now. If you voters are unable to think clearly on your own rather than relying on the very nasty campaign ads paid for by the elite, or don't go out to vote, etc., then you deserve just what you voted for, or allowed to happen in your State, or in our Country. Republicans are not the "Party of Change" as they declared in their campaigning. But they are the Party of the "Same Old Manipulative Thing" as during the Bush/Chaney days, who thought so highly of themselves by pardoning their own War Crimes.

Ask what cuts has Congress made on their salaries, and many special privileged benefits for serving just one term?? WI is so busy taking away benefits from the public workers in their State; but in D.C. no such discussions are being asked of Congress to pay into SS and Medicare. Why aren't the elite being asked to support and give up a few of their privileged benefits (like the "death benefit taxes", etc.) ? Yet, they continually are given more tax breaks by the Govt. while many social programs and educational scholarships or grants are being taken away from the middle class and poor people. The elite can afford to send their children to Ivy League Colleges, who upon graduation expect and are given a high salary jobs without any experience, or being made to compete with other candidates from the regular State Colleges. Then the same individuals turn around and buy their way into other high paying positions through corruption, or buy their political election with their money.

Take a close look at the FL Gov., Scott, who was heavily fined for the largest Medicare fraud in the history of the U.S. But he bought the Gov.position with his own money. Now he has given new tax breaks to businesses in the State, while going after their teachers, etc. to take salary cuts. It seems that the wealthy elite are allowed to buy their way into politics in spite of their corruption. Then, when they are found guilty of criminal behavior in Congress, all they get is a slap on the hand with no jail time or fired (Ranglel, a Democrat from N.Y., is the latest Congressman found guilty for tax evasions, etc., while any private sector worker would be tried and sent off to jail along with a fine ). That is where all the States and D.C. needs to begin with first for the Government Reform and the corruption occurring almost daily inside their own offices. The wealthy elite act as if they are privileged to make or change laws to meet their demands (just as WI just did ). Now the WI people will be paying through taxes to cover the all laws suits coming up over this Gestapo behavior.

Take a very close look at the State of GA, where the Republican, Franklin, has placed a Bill into the State Legislature to allow the EXECUTION OF ANY WOMAN, WHO MISCARRIES AN UNBORN BABY. This is just more of the Gestapo behavior by the control freak Republicans. Can you even begin to imagine being held as a criminal and executed for a miscarriage brought on by "mother nature" ??? You really do need to vote more wisely, unless you have no problem with this very unethical behavior. Also, it is very obvious with this attempt to murder women, who miscarry a child, that the States do not have to abide by the Constitutional Laws when they do not and will not follow the Law of Separation of Church and State. Do nothing about the Franklin Bill and it, too, will pass. Talk about regression of womens' rights. Susan B, Anthony is no doubt rolling over in her grave. The next thing they'll want is for all women not to vote, drive, and wear Burkas in public while walking behind their man. Their latest attempt was an assignation attempt on a Democratic woman senator in AZ, because she doesn't think or do what the Republicans want with their agenda.

Comparing Walker and the legislators to Nazi and Gestapo is what kids do and that's why there is a growing disdain for unions in the country. The unions quote "collective bargaining" is fear and intimidation. That's it. Give me what I want or I'll tear the place apart. They took what the union had to give and passed it anyway which gives them far more guts than the legislators that walked off. Will it stand? I believe it will. In my mind, all this did was give the state Of WI a black eye to the rest of the nation. I see no heros here. A bunch of gutless Dems that walked off, and that can't be justified at all, and a bunch of union members that got their candy taken away. The union still exists. It's still there. Walk off and I believe that the union will be broken.

Wow.. "Adolph Walker." Talk about non-civility. Why don't your research Hitler before you know what you even speak.

Someone said this was corruption. It was corruption for the democrats to run and avoid the vote. It was corruption when Obama bribed politicians into voting for the health care bill. This wasn't corruption. This was fiscal responsibility for all that want something for nothing.

To follow the yellow brick road:

Perhaps you can answer why some public sector jobs (police and fire fighters) were allowed to keep their full bargaining and full union rights, while other public sector jobs have not been allowed the same privilege? How can you equate that as "fair and balanced? It comes across as hypocritical since the police and firefighters supported the Gov. during the election, while the teachers did not support him. Appearances of actions speak a thousand words. If you take away the bargaining rights of one public sector profession as an excuse to cut the State budget deficit, then you should cut the bargaining rights of ALL the public sector jobs. To say and do otherwise, is politically hypocritical at its best. Furthermore, it is discrimination among the various important professions. Then to say that teachers should be held accountable, and complain about how our educational system is lagging behind other countries is also, hypocritical. This is esp. true for the poorly underpaid paid teachers, who must maintain an acceptable environmental behavior learning atmosphere as-well-as to teach disrespectful and disruptive children raised by absentee parents (some of whom may not be behaving any better than the juvenile delinquent children they raised to disrespect those in authority). But then one need not look too far at those who make the laws, but lack the proper role model behavior themselves. All jobs should be held accountable including the politicians and police (who have demonstrated recently in various States that they are not the best role model behavior for upholding the Laws). Instead they take advantage of their positions with corruption to rule or make life hard for those, who do not follow their demands. Congressional leaders get a slap on the hand for their wrong doings, while Police Chiefs in some States are being investigated for bribes, job offers to friends for a fee, false arrests, intentionally shoving a woman down the stairs by a policeman (as viewed by video evidence) causing serious injury, because it was proved that her arrest was invalid, molesting children, setting up fake evidence for convictions, looking a different direction when one of their own commit a crime, murder, spousal abuse, rape, falsifying additional college education for pay raises, gambling, drug dealing, etc., etc., etc., etc. Many excuses have been made in behalf of their poor behavior by their administrators or investigative staff, while they haven't been the best role models for upholding the law. So why should they be allowed to maintain their bargaining rights, while the teachers are not? Supporting the Gov. is not an excuse for allowing some public sector jobs to keep all their rights , while other public sector jobs are denied the same rights. That is politically in correct , biased, not a democratic process, and most definitely political favoritism. The same "give me my way for the wealthy or we'll hold the middle class, poor, and national interests as hostages" was displayed by the Republicans late last Dec. And that immature, gutless, no heroes Republican behavior, no one can deny, since they were ignorant enough to make such public displays for the media and all the nation to observe, not to mention the children observing the childish game playing of politicians shenanigans. Or is that all that politicians, etc. are capable of accomplishing as their "good deed for the day" ? We ARE and SHOULD BE a Nation better than minimal role model behavior, which is why our soldiers fight to protect our freedom and rights. Their valor should never be in vain !!

The biggest thing about this to me is how the Democrats run and hide when they don't get their way, or be the majority. Where's all the libs raising hell about this? That's not democracy, it's running and hiding when you can't get your way, like a bunch of 5 year olds. Sickening.

And huskergal, if you think unions are the "true" democracy, you have never dealt with or been around one.

Independent, No malice here at all. Life isn't fair----only in storybooks. Our teachers here in PA have went on strikes before. They set up picket/protest lines at the school, get some local press, it gets settled after 2 or 3 days, they go back and do it again next time. Our new Gov. just told the unions come contract time in June---it'll be tough. He chose to deal with them. They know beforehand there'll be concessions that need to be made. At issue will be are the the unions willing to concede what's requested?? We could have a little donnybrook here also. Police/firefighters/emt's are essential services. Without them, it would be chaos. If they strike, ever, I figure they'd get fired quickly AKA the traffic controllers. Can you imagine what'd it be like without them?

'

Indep Thinker -

First of all:

When 70K official residents of WI protest against this Bill, I'd hardly call that governing by the majority of the Constituents wishes.

You do realize the unions bussed in hundreds, if not thousands, of out-of-state workers to protest, right? Or do you not watch the "news?"

And in addition, there are about 5 million WI residents, so I hardly think that 70 thou, many from other states, constitutes a majority.

If you voters are unable to think clearly on your own rather than relying on the very nasty campaign ads paid for by the elite,...then you deserve just what you voted for

According to Ron Schiller, ex-pres of NPR, the educated left are the elite - so I agree with you! If you can't think on your own and let the "elite" left do you thinking for you, then you deserve what you get!

Fortunately for WI, they voted in a rightie who refused to allow the elitist to hold his state hostage. Go Walker!

The WI Gov. came into his office with a surplus and immediately gave the extra money to his business buddies for tax deductions, etc.

Watch Madcow much? Her lies have been debunked! This from PolitiFact: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/feb/25/responding-rachel-maddow/ shows how she skewed her "facts."

I've got an idea for you. Next time you want to perform research try this - instead of trying to prove that you are right, try to prove that you are wrong. This method works beautifully to open your eyes to both sides of a debate. And who knows, it might even change your mind!!!

RICH IS RELATIVE! The guy making $100 thinks the guy making a $1,000 dollars is "rich", the guy making $50,000 thinks the guy making $100,000 is "rich", get over the "greedy" corporate rhetoric. What is truly "RICH"?

The fact is....those individuals that started those companies took all of the RISK, hmmm....What happens when the so-called "greedy" corporation propers? They hire either you, a family member, neighbor, etc.?...you get a PAYCHECK! Wow! and what happens when "Robin Hood" thinking stands in the way of that profitable progress? Lost jobs, lost business=NO PAYCHECK.

Just ask an unemployed person. Where are the UNION workers when a company goes bust? A job is a privelege, not a right. It is earned. If an individual is not congruent with an organizations policies and workplace environment or payscale...GUESS WHAT?...LOOK FOR A NEW JOB. Not Rocket Science. Commonsense....which appears to be a commodity.

To Joe-903244, Skiddy , and Patriot-1506681, etc., etc.:

I don't know what reading level your comprehension is on; but obviously you have difficulty with reading for full clarity. Try rereading to find the statement : "Congressional leaders get a slap on the hands for their wrong doings,..... ". That implies BOTH PARTIES and not just a specific Party!! If the rereading doesn't help, then retake your primary reading courses over again. However, people like you tend to read and hear only the parts you want. Your usual trite tactics of proceeding to manipulate with twisting stories only comes across as sneaky, devious, disgusting, and childish to say the least!! And to think I spent so many years of protecting and defending your rights as individuals!! Maybe you are the ones, who should be drafted into the wars overseas in order to get a better perspective of what is happening with both sides. An old saying goes, "Ignorance is Bliss" , and "There are none so blind as those, who won't see ! " But then, it is such attitudes as yours that thinks it okay to shoot a female Democrat Senator, because she thinks differently from the Republicans. It is those types of behavior that is at the root of all corruption. What you do and say is okay, but not for the other side. Take the blind folders off Bubbas!! Because, it is on both sides, but predominately more on the part of Republicans. All you have to do is look from December 2010 on, provided that isn't too far back for some with less memory capabilities.

I've watched the video of this mobs knocking police officers down, removing locked doors from inside buildings so they can illegally enter. I have no doubt that the Mobs social media is on here voting things up and hitting anyone with any opinion other than their own up.

Lets face it, the people in other states that have nothing to gain from this are just glossing this overly media sized even up. They know they can't bring in all the out of state people into all the states at once so they concentrate on Wisconsin since it got the Tea Party candidate as Governor.

Where is all the media on Ohio and Michigan. That is cause all of Obamas supporters from Illinois can't don't want to drive that far.

I guess it doesn't pay to abandon your post and hide in another state. We don't deal with terrorists, or blackmail. To desert your post and try to hold the entire state business hostage is not a legitimate legislative procedure. When the final vote was taken, all those who bothered to show up to work voted, and the bill passed almost unanimously. The next order of business, the state of Indiana.

Independent thinker I am with you all the way. You say it so much better than I can. I let anger get the best of me to much and lose site some times. I live In Michigan and we are getting ready for that same fight here. This is not only union busting but a total power grab. The GOP wants to crush the middle class once and for all. We are going to be like the middle east soon. We can thank Adolph Walker and his Hench men for awakening the sleeping giant that is the middle class. You can see the Koch brothers pumping all the money into WI to change options, but that is a waist of money. There trying to divide the people has back fired. I predict Adolph Walker will be jailed for breaking the law. I know he will be recalled or impeached, but he will never serve out his term. I think any Rep. Governor that tries the same will also be kicked out of office. I do want to say this. To all the people that sat at home and didn't vote in the last election, Shame on you. This is your fault. And the (I) that went Rep. you were mislead and I think you know that now. The rich have stolen money from us on walstreet. Funny how all those 401K's disappeared. It was stolen as if it was a bank robbery. And the Government has set back and allowed it to happen. The masses have said enough. I think many Rep. that are not so right wing will come back to the Dem. side. No more divide and concur. That stopped yesterday once and for all. We will take back what is ours. I have said that we will be just like Egypt and have to take our country back from the rich. Take our Government back from the Lobbies. Stop the bribery. I understand Walker tried this on the County level already. Made up a crisis and fired the securityguards and the courts over turned him and they had to hire the guards back. Man I can't wait to see this ego maniac fall.

Fact is, even though the collective bargaining was removed, this will help the budget. Republicans will probably lose a few seats and possibly even govornership because untruths being spewed and unions pouring money towards democratic candidates. And it sucks because what was passed is a good thing to keep this state financially strong and business friendly. Also an added note of information; federal employees don't have collective bargaining, yet they function. Just thought I should throw that tidbit in there.

Ron W.-1891955

I'm tired of this old rag that liberals don't pay taxes. I'll match what I pay in taxes to what any of you on this group pay. I'd pay more if I thought it would help a single child climb out of poverty. And that you ignorant so and so is the difference between a humanist and nasty mean petty old man.

Chuck in Michigan: Is there not a little part of the new budget there where the gov can decree that your city/town is in an emergency situation, then fire the people elected, take it over and put one of his dudes in place?

The fact that there is union busting going on in the place where unions started is indicative of what the teabaggers want to do to the whole country. Whether it is what happened in Germany in 1933 or if the unions come back, it is Russia in 1917 (btw, Hitler did that in 1933 because he was afraid of what the unions did in Russia), it is undeniable that the rich are running this escapade to our detriment.

If you think you are safe, police and fire of Wisconsin, you are next. Then for all of us on social security: watch out!

"With thunderous applause liberty dies" -star wars

Never has a line in a movie made more sense to me than today. The individuals in this country sold there rights to speak collectively for a twenty dollar tax cut. Wow. Funny that these same people say they want their country back. Do they realize that the bill has no bid contracts in it. If that is not UN- American I dont know what is? The Governor decides who get public contracts with no oversight? No checks and balance really? "With thunderous applause libery dies". One individual by themseleves stands no chance of changing this government by themselves but together we can. This is one of the true premises behind unions. It as american as apple pie. However we have been persuaded with a cheap bribe of tax cuts that dont even go to us but to corporations who have chosen to leave OUR COUNTRY to make a buck. Why do we not refuse to do business with those corporations instead of allowing them to hold us hostage to what they think we should make. They are in a sense, forget that, they are forcing you to be happy making what they make in; INDIA,CHINA,MEXICO,INDONESIA, ect. Its funny that true americans would say no way will we let that happen to my country, but it seems that they have "Sold there soul to the devil and the price was cheap."

In Michigan they have voted to allow the Governor to come in and set up a special manger that can override the mayors, city councils, i.e. local governments to change things that the governor thinks needs to changed. Let me get this straight, that is american? Replace the elected officials with one all powerful non-elected official? This is going on all over this country from WISCONSIN, OHIO,MICHIGAN,NEW JERSEY, FLORIDA, to ARIZONA. AND "WITH THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE LIBERTY DIES!!!"

Raised by wolves-

You say police and fire are next? Democratic candidate Mayor Tom Barrett just proposed similar cuts for them, didn't he? But he was also one of the first to criticize the bill. Is he starting to warm up to the bill because it provides him tools to balance his own budget and debt?

I've worked both union and non-union jobs. My grandfather was a coal miner in Eastern Kentucky and took part in some of the earliest union protests. So my opinion is based on very personal experience.

In my grandfather's day the union was a much needed and necessary tool to combat "the company." The working conditions were harsh, the pay low, and the safety of the worker was not the company's highest priority.

The same is not true today. The government regulates working conditions and safety, and if you aren't offering competitive pay you can't retain your labor force.

Back in my grandfather's day people worked hard. They were proud of the fruits of their labor. They believed in the motto "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay."

The same cannot be said today. The current workforce believes in "doing as little as possible for the biggest pay."

And in my personal experience, the union workers are among the worst of the lot.

I worked the Census Bureau in 2010 in a room with about 400 other people performing data transcription. We made 13.41 an hour - which is a very decent salary in our area. The job was gravy and in the private sector it would have been labeled "entry level clerk" and would have netted about 10.00 per hour. As temps we weren't forced to join the union, but we could if we wanted to.

Let me tell you how it went. About 2/3 of the transcribers joined the union. Most were young adults under the age of 30, the older people who joined seemed to be mostly previous union workers or spouses of union workers. These people seemed to think it was their "right" to have their cell phones at work (though we were expressly forbidden cell phone use at our stations). They called and texted during work hours. If they were called on the carpet for usage at their stations, they would just take 20 minute bathroom breaks and use their phones in the bathroom.

The same group of people were constantly late to work, late coming back from lunch, and continuously getting "sick" and leaving early. Or they would just "pause" their computers so the time didn't count against them while they spent company time discussing their private lives.

I have never worked with such a lazy, entitled group of people in my entire 47 years!

"An honest day's work..."

Most of 'em don't know the meaning.

Much like the Dem's that took off to Illinois....

Kenn the Dem,

Great idea, if we can subject your raises to the whims of the voters, too. As averse as the public is to paying taxes (but don't cut off their services!!), public workers will never get another raise and it will be next to impossible to keep good employees (yes, there are good employees that work for the states).

And, remember that the public employees had already agreed to forgo raises and made many other concessions. It wasn't good enough for these bastards. It probably wouldn't be good enough for the fickle voters, either.

Independent Thinker I have one question for you how much money have you just earnedon this newsvine today. I know that you could not possibly believe one tenth of this garbage that you spout. I have belonged to unions and I have no use for them they want to control everything that you do and think period

MJ - SPEAK for YOURSELF.

I do not agree to pay more taxes so that I can help a child get out of poverty.

I never put that child in poverty in the first place. I am not the one who decided to have a baby I could not afford.

I am still ticked off that I am paying for their food all day in school (breakfast and lunch and possibly dinner).

I am TIRED of paying for EVERYBODY'S STUPID DECISIONS over which I have ZERO control. My father used what he called economic sanctions to teach his kids how to manage money.

I want to use this concept now in 2011 for the MILLIONS in poverty because of their own stupidity. Fend for yourself. My checkbook IS CLOSED.

So, Karen in Los Angeles; you must be pro-choice then. Because so many of those ranting about having to support a child in poverty are also the same "folks' who are rabidly anti-choice.

Unless right-wingers are willing to support those who "have a baby (they) could not afford", then they should STFU.

Never had the need for union services , or the desire to belong to one.

I'll take my ability and desire to work and apply it myself.

Politcally speaking ,,,I don't beleive either the Democrats or the Republicans represent myself.

Newsvine really shows some real pathetic dribble from many of the posters

People, let us stop arguing this point and realize that WI is the second step to corporate government. The first was in 1982 when Reagan fired over 11,000 air traffic controllers at a great expense to the average citizen of this country. It cost taxpayers plenty to hire and train air traffic controllers plus to quote:

"

Alan Greenspan, speaking on the legacy of Ronald Reagan,said:"Perhaps the most important, and then highly controversial, domestic initiative was the firing of the air traffic controllers in August 1981. The President invoked the law that striking government employees forfeit their jobs, an action that unsettled those who cynically believed no President would ever uphold that law. President Reagan prevailed, as you know, but far more importantly his action gave weight to the legal right of private employers, previously not fully exercised, to use their own discretion to both hire and discharge workers."

Now with WI ramming this bill through with only 18 votes when the majority of the people said "NO" to the loss of collective bargaining, the right to set wages and benefits is slowing, and calculating, being taken from us. Our employers will soon have the legal right to reduce our wages and our benefits.

I just want to know one thing...

When did employment benefits become a right?

Just for the record. The people at Fox who keep saying these union members are thugs and they need to get rid of unions, are all union members. They don't want to get rid of THEIR union. Typical do as I say not as I do.

Now with WI ramming this bill through with only 18 votes when the majority of the people said "NO" to the loss of collective bargaining

Actually, the majority said yes, that's why it passed and why the dems had no chance of stopping it. If the majority of "the people" didn't want Walker to take extreme measures he never would have been elected. Being the LOUDEST does not make you the majority.

Again, the facts people-

-This is about public sector unions, not private sector unions ( who actually have to compromise with their employers so as not to drive them out of business).

-On average, public sector employees earn 45% more in wages and benefits than comparable private sector employees.

-In the period from Dec 2007 thru Jan 2010 unemployment in public sector averaged 3% while unemployment in the private sector averaged 7.9%.

Now, someone please explain why I, or anyone else, should feel sorry for the public sector. Where in the private sector do employees have a direct say or influence over who their bosses will be, thus who they will negotiate their compensation with? Who in the private sector has a guarenteed benefit package backed by the taxpayer? The public sector unions like to claim the mantle of the middle class, yet are unwilling to take the losses and make the sacrfices the middle class has made in this economy. The public sector unions act more like a protected class than a part of the middle class. All that has happened is a leveling of the playing field-removing the excessive influence the pub sector unions have have in deciding who they will negotiate with-the sky is not going to fall, private sector unions are not going to be legislated out of existance, wages are not going to drop to third world levels...etc.

Nothing different here then what happened with the Healthcare bill being forced down our throats.

Whats wrong liberals???? Can't play by your own rules?

Nice. "I'm going to take my ball and go home........."

DeeDee 911031:

Your experience with union employment is not a reflection of every union job, and you can't presume to speak with any kind of authority as to the working environment of all union employees. I work in the private sector, and I can guarantee you the guys I work with are as lazy as they come, and they sure as heck make a whole lot more than the union guys who work for this state!

This is for DEE DEE. My dad worked in the minds also. No man should have to work like that. The unions didn't keep up with the times, I agree with that. But as you can see there is a need for them. They have changed. Look at the auto workers. They knew that they had to give back. But it is only right that the people at the top give back also. You can't tell me its ok for a company to take from the workers and give more to those at the top. Look at the Head of Home Depot a few years back. or HP both of these CEO's ran their company's into the ground. they were so bad that the company's had to give them Millions to leave. Now if one of us workers didn't do our jobs right, you got it your fired and no money to help you get restarted. Now some would say that they had a contract. Will so did these union workers. Tell me what is different. And as for the Laws that are to protect the workers. Hell the Corp's just buy them off. I worked for GM for 10 years and never once saw OCSA. And if you get hurt at work, you are on your own. That is a plain fact. Unions are only as good as there members like our country, its only as good as we make it.

Liberal talking points are always the same... and always misleading. Here are a few things they do not like the public to know.

1. If you blame Bush for the wars... and the cost... keep this in mind. The Dems have joined with the Reps from the beginning to fund the wars, and 2. (most important) Obama is Commander in Chief of the military (perhaps you have heard this term) and as such can END THE WARS AT ANY TIME and bring home the TRPS. So if you want to blame the current budget situation on the cost of the wars know that OBAMA could have ended them two years ago. Total war spending now is greater than when Bush was in office, and OBAMA actually INCREASED trp levels in Afghanistan.

2. The WI unions did not agree to all the financial concessions as is so often claimed. One change this bill will allow is the Government to move teachers into the State Health care plan, saving millions. BTW the WI teachers union was the one that untill recently was suing the State to have thier health care plan cover viagra.

3. If a state goes bankrupt it can void all union contracts.

4. Pensions and 401k plans are only as good as inflation will allow. Continued deficit spending will eventually cause massive inflation. Most pension plans only have a percentage adjustment for inflation, meaning the more inflation increases, the more the pension / 401k/ savings decreases. Other countries that have gone bankrupt in the past... or even come close... have seen inflation exceed 1000% or more.

5. Liberals constantly complan about jobs being shipped over seas, but buy Chineese junk just like everyone else. Buy American and people will make products in America.

6. Liberals claim to be pro union, but they are really two faced. Go to a democratic rally and count the toyotas, hondas, etc.... some may be made in USA, but they are made in NON UNION SHOPS. Then go to a TEA PARTY rally and see a sea of F-150s made in UNION SHOPS.

Walker and his Rubber-stamp Repugnant thugs are done. Recalls will occur, and first the State Senate Greedy Overreaching Politicians will find themselves out on their arses. Then come Jan, Walker gets his turn at being thrown out - dictators don't stay in power anymore.

Private Unions are only willing to negotiate when it comes to the point that they either give or the company goes out of business. Look at the auto workers Unions and you can see that. The public sector are even worse, they allow their votes to be bought by politicians that will rob the middle class to pay the unions more.

Unions are a dead tool. Much like the horse pulled plows used by farmers long ago. They have no place in the work force today other than put businesses out of business or live off the tax payers kinda like the Communist Red Party did in Russia and depending on who you talk to they still do. Less than 15% of the nations work force is Union today. A lesser portion of that works in the public sector. These public sector employees are trying to dope representatives into the belief that cutting expenses is not the way to go. That raising taxes so that the public workers don't feel any pain is much better. I mean that lowly second class of citizen known as the privately employed should feel the pain not us upstanding public workers. At least that is how these public unions think.

An Independent Thinker.... first of all let me compliment you on the choice of words used in you posts....I'm sure there is a job at Hallmark just waiting for you. I don't have to tell you that, it is quite apparent that you are are extremely impressed with yourself and think that you are impressing the world. Word to the wise (wink wink) No matter how beautifully you wrap up garbage, the smell comes shining through. Your post reeks of either ignorance or pure B.S. and you my dear are not conning anyone. Funny thing about us dumb folks, we don't just take someones words as fact, we actually verify everything follow the news. You're wasting your time with your own version of reality. The only one you're fooling is yourself.

Delete above

The above message with "Delet above" refers to one of my posts that had the Quote Indentation in the wrong place, plus I did not know how to correct it in the given amount of time.

So, Karen in Los Angeles; you must be pro-choice then. Because so many of those ranting about having to support a child in poverty are also the same "folks' who are rabidly anti-choice.

Unless right-wingers are willing to support those who "have a baby (they) could not afford", then they should STFU.

Fastmovingcloud - I guess you've never heard of "welfare moms" who pop out babies left and right just to increase their welfare checks. The kids starve, the moms are on drugs and the dads only show up on the 1st to pick up their "cut" of the mom's welfare checks. This problem is rampant in Los Angeles, where Karen lives. I know, I lived there for 40 years (don't anymore, thank God). There are a few that actually have a baby they can't afford and struggle and really do need a hand up (not a hand out). But for the most part, welfare is something that is handed down generation after generation so that whole families are institutionalized and either don't want to get out or don't know how to get out. There are other "choices". Don't have unprotected sex. Don't have sex period. Give the baby up for adoption. Abortion is not the only answer to kids living in poverty. But there is no reason I should have to pay for all those welfare moms who starve their kids anyway to stay on drugs. Lets start with drug testing for anyone who wants welfare. If you fail the drug test, you don't get the welfare. If someone reports your children are filthy and hungry, not only do you not get welfare, but the kids are taken away.

They got what they voted for. It's a good lesson for voters to do their due diligence on every candidate, instead of voting the party ticket all the way down the ballot.

To cookie-865319:

Your comments said nothing concrete in the way of adult communication, other than your displayed use of profanity along with the typical Republican name calling. However, I'm not sure that you have fully done a very good job of conning/convincing yourself with all of the available concrete facts. Did you read all the pages with the new Health Care Reform Bill of 2,100 pages. I did and found the legal wording to be sometimes confusing and boring as well. But when I wrote for clarifications, I always got an answer. Way too many complainers did not read the documents, and yet have no objections with the entire package. Now, how is that if they don't know what is in those 2, 100 pages. Facts speak for themselves, esp. historical documents. Read the history books about the illegal wars to include the most recent war for weapons of mass destruction that never existed. Then weep for all the young lives lost, injured, and many homeless Vets where several of the national News Media reported that in Central FL alone, there were over 4000 plus homeless veterans when the Homeland Security raided the new VA building for ( or more illegal alien construction workers. The Vets would loved to have had those jobs and I'm sure out of the 40000 homeless Vets, there were many qualified skilled workers and managers. But the practice of hiring illegal aliens is far cheaper for the big businesses to hire. Did the construction company loose their contract?? I don't think so !! Limiting your news reading or media outlet to one source does little to expand ones knowledge with both sides of the story in order to asses a more valid conclusion. If you had taken the time to read my comments more carefully, you would have noticed that I did lay blame on both political parties for not serving their Constituents, as-well -as not acting with more appropriate role model behavior. Too many politicians are there serving themselves while ignoring the Constituents and holding the Americans and National Interest s as hostages (as done by the Republicans (in late Dec., 2010) until the elite had their tax breaks for themselves first.. Until Jan. of 2010, never have I heard of Congressman disrupting the President's State of Union Address by calling him "You're a liar" as done by a new Republican Representative. Bigotry is still alive and well!!! This type of poor behavior appears to be far more prevalent among the Republicans, but it does exist with both parties, which history has documented to include the impeachment of one of your Republican Presidents (R. Nixon) for corruption and tampering with evidence while in office. You just can't ignore the historical facts of written documentation as invalid unless you refuse to take the blinders off. Furthermore, you can't ignore the fact of political favoritism shown to the police and firefighters in WI, who supported the Gov., who lashed out at those who did not. You just don't give bargaining rights to two public sector professions and not the rest of the public employees. And if teachers are so indispensable, then why bother hiring them at all. Maybe you can do a better job of teaching them at home while putting up with their interruptions and often violent behavior that often includes mass murder along with many injured. We raised our children with the idea that none of the violent, bullying behavior was ever acceptable. No, they aren't perfect, but they do understand and show respect for the law. They act with appropriate behave with those in authority in the schools, work, etc. They even achieved full college scholarships for outstanding academic standards, more than 5, 000 hours of documented community service in school and out of school as well. And yes, both spouses served in the military for a very long time until recently to preserve and to protect all classes of persons, races, or religions for their rights and freedom of speech. The least the Americans can do for the returning Vets is to respect (but not necessarily accept) each others political parties or opinions with courtesy. Most importantly, the injured Vets need good medical care, and provided decent jobs that they gave up to fight overseas while many of us sat so smugly in our safe homes. Yet, mortgage companies , the Wall Street greed Bankers were busy foreclosing on the soldiers homes, or else were way over charging them unlawful fees. That is no way to treat the soldiers serving to protect our Country. It's about time we stop taking them for granted to do our part of the work here in the U.S.

This type of poor behavior appears to be far more prevalent among the Republicans

Your theory certainly does not apply to newsvine.

I guess you've never heard of "welfare moms" who pop out babies left and right just to increase their welfare checks.

Can you blame them. They are killing all the abortion doctors and they are cutting assistance for programs that council these people. No one wants their tax dollars to pay for abortions or birth control. They would rather have it pay for welfare, their medicaid and food stamps, which is, in a lot of cases, converted to drugs.

To DeeDee-911031:

Where is the sourcing for your statistics with the unions? If you had had enough time to observe, classify, and quantify the people who were in the unions, then you were obviously not producing at full capacity either. Without access to detailed personnel records, how would you be able to correctly determine who joined the unions, how old they might be, and then attach those statistics to specific individual(s)' performances???? In addition, for such an evaluation to be accurate, valid, and complete, it would require extensive observation of said performance. This is not something one data entry clerk would be able to accomplish without it being very obvious, and especially without access to employee records, which is extremely unlikely. Accurate facts are important when making such public statements if they are to hold any real validity.

To DeeDee-911031: To quote you:

"You do realize the unions bussed in hundreds, if not thousands, of out-of-state workers to protest, right? Or do you not watch the "news?" And in addition, there are about 5 million WI residents, so I hardly think that 70 thou, many from other states, constitutes a majority."

From An Independent Thinker: Once again, where is your sourcing to state your statistics, which I know to be invalid? I am well aware that the Republican Tea Party did indeed bus load many people from outside the the State of WI. I not only read the news, but listened carefully to what was said on both sides unlike some others, who apparently did not. According to several polls taken inside the State of WI, well more than 62 % of the people did not approve of the Governor's actions. With those facts, I do not consider the WI Gov. and Republicans honored their Constituents wishes. But then, that is not something new for the Right Wing behavior. Isn't it indeed funny, or oddly strange how ammunition was planted on the Capital grounds, without one single weapon to be found later used for use with the ammunition?? That indeed sure smells of a rotten set up by the Gov., who was already caught on video saying that he had considered causing some trouble for the protesters, but had decided against taking such actions. Did he change his mind, or did he find some scapegoats to do his dirty work for him?? Because, I just can't imagine anyone planting the supplies without the guns, if they protesters had intended on using them. I just bet that thought never entered your mind for considering the potential facts on BOTH SIDES. Quite obviously, somebody wanted to make the protesters look bad; but the carelessness was not thought through very well, or else the Republicans did not want to bring the these questionable errors to the attention of the Public. Fortunately, not everyone can be fooled so easily by the Republicans, who were so willing to make up serious lies to head off to an illegal War over WMD's that never existed. Another thing, while I do not belong to a Union, nor do I not particularly care much for them very much. Unlike some, I believed in honoring the working contract. However, I would never be so bold or crass as the Republicans to consider taking away the people's right to a Union bargaining voice for their for their organization; nor would I strike; nor have I ever gone on a strike in the past. (But I do feel that unions work well with larger organizations that often tend to get lost or buried in the paper shuffle work). And that is just my personal preference!

As a former CEO of my own small company, I expected the same of my employees as well. What they did during their breaks was none of my concern as long as the safety, concern for the welfare of others, and feelings of others was observed by all members. Sexual harassment and bullying were non-acceptable practices as well. However, when they were on the clock, I expected their full attention to details, which is what I paid them for in decent wages with benefits. Playing games on the computers, making personal non-emergency calls home, sending e-mails or minding (and snooping) on what other employees were doing was not a part of the job task, nor was it ever encouraged. Also, the employees were informed before signing on with the company that sex jokes, religious discussions, offensive racial jokes, and political discussions would never be condoned at the work, or through the office computers as well. I had no objections if employees chose to read religious or political literature during their breaks. In fact comfortable chairs in an AC room with tables, sink, refrigerator, microwave, and restrooms were provided for their relaxation with the expectation of cleanliness and proper maintenance at all times (no dirty dishes left in the sink or spoiled dripping food left in the refrigerator). Even special event gatherings (i.e. an employee's birthday celebration was allowed in the rec room. Also, questions others asked about a religious or political book being read by an individual were allowed with limitations as long as it did not offend another person's beliefs, and only if the reader was asked what the book or literature was about by the inquiring person. The purpose behind those policies was to eliminate potentially offended feelings among the other employees beliefs or practices. Far too often, many offices in the private and public sector companies had way too many employees seriously abusing and wasting time during the working hours doing the non-essential, required tasks for their own personal benefit, which is a waste of productivity, money, and time for the owners of the business. Yet, of the worst offenders tended to be workers in the public sector job positions paid for through the tax payers, etc. Such unacceptable behavior should never be condoned in any work environment.. However, this did not appear to be a concern or a problem for the WI Governor. So what I am saying is that I do not need a union, nor did my employees feel the need to have one probably because my company was small. However, we do not have the privileged right to deny those rights to those employees desiring to have such an organization. Don't Big Businesses have their paid lobbyists to represent their businesses in D.C. ??? The Unions are no different than the overly paid lobbyists in D.C.

Indep Non-Thinker -

If you had had enough time to observe, classify, and quantify the people who were in the unions, then you were obviously not producing at full capacity either

Out of the 400 people in my department 3 were selected to receive cash awards for accuracy and production. Guess who was No.2...

Without access to detailed personnel records, how would you be able to correctly determine who joined the unions, how old they might be, and then attach those statistics to specific individual(s)' performances????

I spent 8 hours a day five and six days a week at the Census Bureau. I was on speaking terms with most of my fellow employees. Union sign-ups were performed in the break room during breaks & lunches. When one isn't too busy and self-involved to notice what is going on around them they notice a lot of things. Especially when you can't hear yourself think because the person next to you or across from you doesn't have the common courtesy to keep their phone conversation down to an acceptable level.

And, lastly, a poll can be set up to reflect anything you want it to reflect. It is all in the questions, wording and prompting of the poller. If you want to believe sites like the Huff and Puff or Think Progress or any number of liberal polls, far be it from me to burst your bubble - even if the bubble is full of hot air!!!

Someone please ask Deb, above, if she approves of birth control for these "welfare moms" or abortion? This Reaganesque old saw about welfare moms is out-dated. I'm never sure if the right want no birth control so that these welfare moms when they they win this class warfare will have lots of workers to abuse?

Don't have an Abortion, but ask the Right to show some empathy and raise one finger to help the poor out of poverty and they cry (Tax) and call you all bums and drug users.

Hate to break it to you, guys, but Reps are more charitable than Dems

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

You could at least quote a bipartisan source. George will is a card carrying conservative.

Hate to break it to you, guys, but Reps are more charitable than Dems

Then why are blue states supporting so many red states?

voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

ChristineCCR - - - Charitable giving has nothing to do with forced taxation. One is voluntary ... the other is coerced.

One other misconception you seem to have ... Charitable Giving is not usually made to benefit Federal or State coffers (i.e. your remark about supporting the states).

It's kind of disingenuous and deliberately misleading your comparison and link of blue states to red. To give personal charity money to the Federal or State Gov't would be like burning your money.

It's much better to give directly to the Organization that can use it to help the cause and beneficiaries.

Addressing Charitable Giving was definitely the wrong issue for you to be attacking or trying to prove any point of high-ground for the Left.

Reps give more to "Foundations", not social charities, and only then for appearance sake, or because they like to keep having sex with their Liberal wife's, get pressured from their Liberal children and to elevate the guilt, and fear derived from the prospect of their going to hell from raping everyone else... and for the tax cuts. Mostly for the tax cuts.

Daniel A. Hallo - - - Is that supposed to be an INTELLIGENT answer?

It's amazng how you can officially and individually athenticate the intentions of a group of people obviously more responsive and in harmony with giving to charity than you ... elitist?

Oh I see now ... a Freelance Writer out of Chicago.(Now I understand) ...

On second thought ... nah, still left incredulous.

Koch Brothers' Money Fuels Wisconsin Fight - NYTimes.com

The Billionaire Koch Brothers' War Against Obama : The New Yorker\Very

Charitable?

Al Capone gave to Charities as well, most criminals give generously from what they steal, is this proof they are of good character? Mafia bosses are pretty good fathers to their children too... Stay incredulous, but on both sides of the issue. Faith is admirable, but doubt always gets you a better education.

Daniel A. Hallo - - - Your self-righteousness makes me ill. Makes me wish I had never participated in rescuing people in your profession who get stuck behind enemy lines and need to be saved from hostile forces for the main reason of getting your articles and photos published to enhance your name and reputation.

Hey, I gave to a homeless person today … did you?

Daniel A. Hallo - - -Furthermore ... How many lives can you say you have saved in your lifetime? Carried them on your shoulder, bandaged their wounds or given water to when they were thirsty. How many kids have you given your daily ration of food to kids who looked at you through starving eyes.

Yeah ... you write about how unfair life is here in America. I could tell you stories that would make the leftist revolutionaries you idolize look pitiful. Wear your Che tee-shirt proudly while you denegrate the people who make America strong. Hey Saddam wasn't so bad either, right?

"Wealth, title, office, are no recommendations to my friendship. On the contrary, great good qualities are requisite to make amends for their having wealth, title, and office." --Thomas Jefferson to Maria Cosway, 1786.

LOL, I used to write assembly instructions and quality control procedures, I'm retired and disabled now... and I used to be homeless. Lived out of a car for 2 years so I could afford college. I always do all I can do.

Question: If a poor man who has only 2 dollars, gives one to a child so he can buy milk, and a multimillionaire gives that child a $100 dollars, who gave more? Who is more chartable?

Don't ignore History... Rome didn't fall because of vise, it was avarice that brought it down.

"An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." -- Plato

Hey Saddam wasn't so bad either, right?

Ask Reagan and Bush. They put him in power.

Daniel A. Hallo - - - Liberal/Progressive ideology (the rich vs. the poor ... blah, blah blah) is nothing more than a disparate power grab. Propelled by people (that you think are working for you) who use the envy class of people to do their bidding. However it has nothing to do with charity and all to do with control and self-advancement of their agenda.

and BTW ChristineCCR - - - Your comment on Reagan, Bush and Bush putting Saddam into power is historically incorrect. He became the Leader of Iraq in 1979 I believe (before Reagan). Even supplying them with weapons in the 80's to fight Iran does not put someone into power.

nothing more than a disparate power grab.

"Sitting at the bottom of wells, frogs think that the sky is as wide as a lid."

Another intelligent quip. You're on fire tonight Daniel.

Gee, my apologies. The fact that Bush helped run the CIA has nothing to do with his involvement in the process.

www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/217.html

Maybe they should sign a petition for a recall. What would it take in WI to recall vote on the governor and ALL of the senators.

Let democracy kick up some dust.

Takes the same as to recall the Democratic senators who went AWOL.

Polls show overwhelming support of Senate Democrats. Polls also show the republicans will lose their recalled seats.

I hope the Republicans are successful in making this stick. I'm tired of supporting outlandish public union benefits at MY expense when I can barely afford to keep a roof over my head.

Winky, if you lose the roof over your head look to the republican party and their pushing the tax cuts for the wealthy on a state and national level. The rich get more money they don't need, and you live in a cardboard box. Don't let them make you vote against your own economic self interest. They will laugh at people like you for a sucker.

Sounds familiar. Where did I hear this before? Oh Yes, Obamacare!!! Wasn't that also pass in very unethical ways?

Nothing shows the true colors of today's conservative movement more than the jealousy and disdain a lot of commentators show around here against govt-union workers. Examples like this "I'm barely holding on to my job by sucking-up on dirty round flesh and these union people and their lavish benefits". But keep drinking the kool'aid the MSM feeds you my friend winky.

Wink, I am a public employee and I PAY IN to the state retirement and health system. My benefits are not outlandish and YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THEM. This is the biggest hoax since War of the Worlds. It is not my fault if the state didn't manage my retirement funds properly, I did my part.

If you think my modest salary and salary-based pension are outlandish, you need to get a union of your own. It is not my problem if you can't stand up to your employer, it's yours.

Dude, that was supposed to be a secret. It's the employees fault that incompetent banksters and their w(h)ore politicians raided the pension funds and put it in the stock market for the banksters to gamble on the derivatives (utter horses(hi)t ) financial devices and lost big after the bubble burst. For an elementary explanation watch "Inside JOB" the documentary, btw, it didn't win an Oscar for nothing. Not that it would be on the front page of any faux news or MSM news network.

Wisconsin voters elected these folks to do exactly what they are doing. Recall - funny. Hold another election and you liberals might be very disappointed in the outcome. But I say go for it, it's your right, and you may get exactly what you want.

Now how to pay for it, that will be another issue entirely.

Yes, I was equally upset about the California recall election involving Governor Davis in 2003 which cost the state close to 70 million dollars. Too bad we couldn't have billed all that to Enron. Recalling its business license would have been far more cost-effective on every level. I know Enron finally got caught, but too little too late. But then again, why should we be so hard on a lying, scheming multi-millionaire executives when we can beat up on a 50K/year teacher?

Mark-423819, Democracy did kick up some dust. You just didn't like it when it settled.

Most posters don't even know what the Citizens United case before the Supreme Court was. That's why it's unfortunate anyone can post their opinion without any knowledge of what they are talking about.

How many Conservative/Tea Partiers out there can honestly say that passing a bill fourteen minutes after it left committee represents democratic values they can be proud of?

I guess it's only okay if you're a Koch-sponsored Republican on a vendetta against unions and middle-class Americans.

Hurray for Scott Walker and all the Senate Republicans. I wish the politicians in Alaska had as much guts to fight the Unions. The Mayor of Anchorage, Mark Begich, gave sweetheart deals to the Unions here right before he was elected to United States Senate.

Wisconsin voters elected these folks to do exactly what they are doing.

Actually they did not. That is not true. It wasn't even a part of Walker's agenda. He never spoke about it. It was something he became vocal about after his election. And the fact is this has nothing to do with the budget. They want to break the backs of the labor unions so big business across the board no longer is beholden to anyone for the way they treat their employees.

We're on our way to becoming China. 10 years from now when you can't afford to buy the product you're manufacturing, your children no longer can go to school because they must work to support the family and you're living in what amounts to third world poverty, you'll have no one to blame but yourself and your short-sighted petty stance. And rich will be so much richer it will embarrass any person with a conscience.

to rcm1301:

It was legally done and hasn't been repealed as promised by the Republicans. Did you really believe that they would succeed at repealing the Bill? But at least they are trying, so we' ll have to give them credit for that much even though they already know it most likely will not be repealed. However, you might as well just get used to the idea of working with it, unless you desire to be held in contempt of the Law. Although I can't say that I approve of the mandatory requirement to support greedy insurance companies high fees, or else paying a fine for the violation of not having a health coverage. However, I am sick and tired for paying for your visits to the EM rooms because you refuse to carry health insurance even though you are working, or your company offers some coverage to go along with the payments from you. Ignorance is bliss when young people think a serious illness or accident will never happen to them. Because, it does happen everyday. Also, if you recall, it was the Republicans, who did not want a Public Option to force the other health insurance companies to be more competitive with their pricing. I'd say that was a rather ignorant move on their part and probably done with the thinking that the health care would never pass. Well, guess what? It did! The other problem with the health care package is the obvious lacking of capping the insurance costs as-well-as the medical costs. It just keeps going up on a daily basis. The Bill does include for those , whose income would not cover such high insurance fees, would be supplemented by the Government to cover the costs according to income levels. But what that it all comes down to is : Good health Care should be allowed on all levels of income and not just for the wealthy elite, who can buy whatever they want. Another draw back for this Health Care Bill is: The Health Care Reform still does not provide medical care for 100% of the U.S. citizens. Just who those people are and why they would not be eligible, I am not aware of even though I read most of the pages; but not in extended detail. There seems to be some other loop holes as well. The time and money would be better spent if both parties sat down to the real business of eliminating the loop holes, capping the costs, etc. rather than spending more of our tax payer money fighting this in court with law suits. Allowing for a Gov. Option would force the insurance companies to be more competitive with the costs as well.

I hope the Republicans are successful in making this stick. I'm tired of supporting outlandish public union benefits at MY expense when I can barely afford to keep a roof over my head.

Its funny how you were not here protesting tax cuts for the rich. Remember when $250 thousand a year was considered a low income? Remember when Wall Street bonuses was considered not much, because these people are used to making a lot of money and millions in bonuses, was just enough to pay their mortgage and take a vacation?

Now its school teachers who are rich. Eg. If their salary is $20 per hour, they take $5 and put towards their retirement and insurance. They now earn $15 an hour. Get merit raises only on $15 not $20. So the taxpayers do not pay for them. Besides they pay taxes as well.

They earn less than bus drivers and garbage collectors. The Republicans don't care about anyone but their rich friends. Remember the top 20% in this country controls 85% of the wealth, they are the ones that get tax cuts. Then they have us (80%) fighting each other for the 15% that's left and we fall for it.

If you read the bills that they have, they are cutting everything that has to do with kids, women and poor people.They don't care since they can afford to buy whatever they need. They are the people that claim that $250 thousand is "nothing", this is not considered a great salary. But suddenly teachers are rich, even though they make a fraction of $250 thousand. And we buy it and rise against these people.

When teachers choose to change profession, the classroom size becomes large and children starts to fail, even more that they are now, I guess we will still blame teachers.

The only people that are benefiting from our taxes, are Wall Street and the very wealthy. Why aren't we protesting that Bank of America paid 0 in taxes because of loopholes given to corporations? This amounts to at least one and a half billion dollars. Yet we are here protesting against teachers, who make less than $80 thousand.

I would like to know why my comment was collasped, there was nothing offensive or untrue in my statements. Keep clicking the agree with comment on comment number 2-17.

I guess some pretty scared Union members when they collapse a simple comment.

pjr: I agree, the fat union bosses and their thugs can't handle the truth

As are you.

agn represents the liberal philosophy. If you don't agree with them, there is obviously something wrong with you, and you are their sworn enemy.

The hatred and intolerance of the left is reminicent of the totalitarian ways of Communist countries and even the Nazi style. I am not comparing them to Nazi's, nor am I calling them Nazi's, but they are using similar tactics.

The new left is a serious threat to true democracy. I don't like what the Republicans are doing, but they are entitled to their opinion and if they win the vote, then they win the battle. I will defend this before I will defend the cowardly and monocratic ways of the left. The GOP is the lesser of the two evils! Ain't that something! Go figure.

I anticipate hate reponses and being collapsed, but that will truly prove my point!

It was collapsed because you are a small minded ideologue!

agn - who is the small minded one? The one who made the comment or the one who collapsed it because they can't allow someone else's opinion to be shown? I would have to say the latter.

Voting by representatives is a commie act? I think that you are somewhat misinformed.

You left out jackbooted brownshirt thugs, imwhitewolf, but I'm with you.

For carvelle33,

Good point, numbers sound about right as well.

It should be descendants, not ancestors.

Carvelle33.................Oh please, you must be a public worker who likes having the private sector pay your way.

A few years back we had Dems in Texas Leg stay away too, but they caved. Looks like the Fascists let loose by W are picking up speed all over. And it looks like the draconian efforts to kill the middle class are even more sinister in Mi and Ohio. Luckily some of the worst things have not come to Rick Perry's feeble mind. So far he's only trying to further ruin Texas' pitiful school system and do away with mental health care. Here's to recall efforts everywhere.

imwhitewolf,

Did you know that Facsist/Nazi's were socialist, not right wing. They hated Democracy as much as they did Communism. They nationalized most industries, and controlled almost every aspect of society. Why does this sound familiar? But that's another conversation :)

But to call Walker a commie is pretty funny.

This reminds me of a joke. A CEO, a Teabagger, and a Teamster are at a table. 12 cookies are placed on the table, and the CEO immediately grabs 11 of them. Then, he turns to the Teabagger and says, "That teamster wants to take half your cookie."

Here's the rest of the story you left out - The Teamster then says to the CEO, give me 10 of your cookies and I want half of the Teabagger's cookie or I'll bus my thugs out to your company and block all of your business from entering the building. So the CEO gives up his 10 cookies and the Teabagger gives up his half and then the Teamster donates 8 cookies to his favorite lefty politician who in turn gives more perks and cookies to the Teamster. And some of them lived happily ever after. Guess which ones.

Oh, I forgot, then the politician takes the other cookie from the CEO and the half from the Teabagger and tells them both that they both owe 10 more cookies each because we are in debt to the Teamsters and they haven't given their "fair share" of cookies yet.

This was a labor issue that got political and turned into class warfare. Union tactics all along are fear and intimidation. That became apparent today went the bill passed. The REAL unions came out today. Mob mentality---we'll tear the place apart----this is war! I saw the union boss today say that we hadn't seen nothing yet----neither has he. State by state, little by little, his membership will dwindle until, before you know it, he's talking to no one. What we saw today will turn the public against unions completely. Keep threatening, keep the fear tactics up, people will push back. We won't be intimidated.

3rd World, Born there, Been There, Done that, moved ON..........slowly going back...Damn....NO MORE American Dream...more like the nightmare from times past. Oh''well.

Rich, you have problems, you need help.

hope you enjoy your new job shoveling s(hi)t at the masters home for 10 cents an hour because that's where we're going.

But hey a job is a privilege. And you and yours are gonna be privileged to starve because you aren't too bright so you'll be one of the first to go in the new world order.

No (quasi) Patriot you are the one that needs help! Rich hit the nail on the head... only wish the head was Walker's and lying Wisconsin Republican State Senators!

So now if you disagree with a liberal, they threaten violence upon you.

And we shouldn't fear the left because...

I've heard the Republicans in WI are getting death threats. Gee wasn't that a big deal when Gabby got shot? He libs, is it OK with you as long as it's a Republican that is being threatened?

So no one should have cared that Gabby got shot? I haven't heard of any death threats, where can I go to get the information? Are you saying that Gabby was threatened?

As I remember, Gabby Giffords was shot, not just threatened. So we should make a big deal about threats and ignore the actual attempt at murder and actual murder.

Gee wasn't that a big deal when Gabby got shot?......is it OK with you as long as it's a Republican that is being threatened?...

I am just trying to figure out where the comparison is, between getting shot and claims of threats. Gabby deserve to get shot because she is a Democrat,we shouldn't have made such a big deal, but we should jump through hoops if a Republican 'claims' they are threatened?

Rich:

The only reason that Walker put forth this deal was because the Koch Brothers told him to....it's their idea that getting rid of the unions will allow them to do what they want in their own industries. Walker is bought and paid for by the Koch Brothers....check out the facts.

Deb said: I've heard the Republicans in WI are getting death threats. Gee wasn't that a big deal when Gabby got shot? He libs, is it OK with you as long as it's a Republican that is being threatened?

Fletch said:

So no one should have cared that Gabby got shot? I haven't heard of any death threats, where can I go to get the information? Are you saying that Gabby was threatened?

As I remember, Gabby Giffords was shot, not just threatened. So we should make a big deal about threats and ignore the actual attempt at murder and actual murder.

OK, fletch, look above and tell me where I said that "no one should care if Gabby got shot"? I don't see it anywhere in my post, do you? Also, where did I say Gabby was threatened? I didn't, but actually she was. And you guys were all over it at the time.

And where in my post did I say that "we should ignore the fact that Gabby was shot"? Nowhere that I can see. What I ASKED was, is it OK with you as long as it's a Republican that is threatened?

You might learn how to read before you rebut someone's post.

Gee wasn't that a big deal when Gabby got shot? He libs, is it OK with you as long as it's a Republican that is being threatened?....Implying that a big deal was made when Gabby got shot and no one is making a big deal about a republican being threatened....Gee..

What I ASKED was, is it OK with you as long as it's a Republican that is threatened?.............What does this have to do with Gabby being shot?. I need to ask since it was in the same paragraph.

No matter how you try to back pedal, it won't work. Saying that it was a big deal when Gabby got shot and comparing that with someone being threatened, proves just how despicable you are.

Learn how to express yourself before posting, if you don't want your true feelings to show.

For clarity, could you please tell me who threatened Gabby?

I think the phrase you're looking for, yet again, is "lone, deranged individual".

What is more DIPICABLE is the spineless cowards that fled the state and the unionist that twist the truth and the media that reports the dummycrates lies.

Are you saying it's okay for the GOP to pass a bill 14 minutes after it left committee because supposedly "Pelosi did it first!"

really?

Yes its OK carlw because the dems chose to runaway I didnt see any republicans run away from the ignorant health care bill. Go crawl back under your rock and stay there.

It is OUR money these libs are blowing and it is going to stop.

why are all collapsed comments only anti union? Chairman Mao, are you out there?

Because, as usual, the anti-unions have nothing invaluable to say!

As usual, the liberals can't allow another voice to be heard, people might actually learn the truth.

The senate majority lead in WI is saying that the recall efforts are Obama's fall. Kinda funny actually. Heaven forbid that people are actually upset at the legislation they are trying to pass.

And the Dems who run and hide because they can't win a vote is ethical? Come on! Can you imagine what would happen if every time a vote wasn't going to go in their favor the party ran away across state lines to prevent it? Those Dems forced the GOP's hand and the GOP gave them exactly what they said they would. There was no bluff, the Dems screwed themselves.

Revolution? Isn't that what people say to sound cool now? Let's face it Oregon Native, most people in this country don't know what a revolution is. Revolution is a chaotic, angry, bloody thing and you are ignorant if that is your "big solution".

It is no different than the Senate Republicans filibustering.

Yeah, i don't recall Republicans fleeing D.C. when it was pretty clear Obama intended to ram the health care bill down our throats. Interesting...

You do realize that bill was debated for a year before passing, right? And thanks to the rules of the senate, the republicans do not have to flee D.C. to stop a measure, they just have to oppose on the premise of a fillibuster, and that the healthcare law passed with a supermajority vote, right?

Brokinarrow

Yeah, i don't recall Republicans fleeing D.C. when it was pretty clear Obama intended to ram the health care bill down our throats. Interesting...

Of course not - they just voted "hell no" to everything whether it was their idea or not, threw a bunch of money at Dick Armey to stir up the mindless Teabag contingent, and lied their a$$es off. Rammed what?

I am so sick and tired of people like you, Paul, using the "scare" word - or fear or afraid- every time anyone mentions the idiots in the Tea Party. I'm not "scared" nor do I "fear" them but I am mad as HE@@ that a group of people, most of which are about my age, can be so brain dead and so easily bought off by the likes of the uber rich Koch thugs and their ilk. It sickens me that they are too stupid to see that they are being very badly used. They are the ones who should be "afraid, VERY afraid" of how they are helping to bring this country down. They are not only the rudest, they are also the most disrespectful, ignorant bunch of hooligans and bigots I've ever seen. Can't wait to see how "afraid, very afraid" they are when they lose THEIR pensions, SS and Medicare. When that happens the Koch brothers and their ilk won't even know them or care what happens to them.

People, people, people:

Are you all listening to yourselves and each other? Do you hear the anger? That same kind of anger lead to the unrest (revolutions) in the middle east! People without jobs, people trying to feed families, young people, old people, they were all wanting the same thing! CHANGE! Is that the way you all want this country to go? Apparently civility is no longer in the vocabulary used in this country. Apparently discussion and compromise aren't either.

But, please don't let me stop you from expressing yourselves. When chaos and anarchy rein supreme and blood has to be shed to put humpty dumpty back together again, then perhaps the anger will end.

But I doubt it!

bbird, 'Odumbo' as you call him is going to ride right back into the white house on all these Republican blunders that are happening. The people wanted jobs NOT Corporate lackeys as the Reps are showing themselves to be!

Oregon Native, after Bill Clinton it takes a lot less paint.

you had a revolution, it's called the landslide election, you lost; as Obama paraphrased " the voters have spoken, get to the back of the bus"

Well said Allie!!!

What, pass three spending measures that turn a small state deficit into a large state deficit, and then use that as an excuse to neuter bargaining rights?

See, it's hard for us progressive liberals to understand your analogy, most of us don't have teenage daughters with gold cards shopping at Bloomingdale's, we have kids that grew up watching us work for a living, not off of Daddies inheritance money. Then again, you probably don't even understand the point....

Yeah, has absolutely nothing to do with tax breaks to corporations and a wall street meltdown thanks to deregulation that depleted the states pension fund investments, nothing to do with states picking up more medicaid costs because the Feds have to pay for oil company tax breaks, tax breaks for the rich, unfunded wars, unemployment benefits in the worse economy in decades, etc. Yep BrentOC, you got it all figured out.

BrentOC....

You do know, of course, that this is the same governor who CUT TAXES for the RICH before going after middle class union workers, don't you?? Oh,,,you didn't? Care to rethink your opinion now?

Or, wait.....you must be one of those rich people, right? You couldn't possibly be one of those misguided middle class or working class people who has been duped by the laughing-all-the-way-to-the-bank Koch brothers and their Fox friends, are you? Oh, please say you're not...

Filibustering this vote by not being available was exactly the same tactics as the R's used when the filibustered the 100+ pieces of legislation presented to them over the last couple of years. I don't know why the unions are blamed for the shortfalls. The bargaining table is for bargaining and if the management doesn't agree with unions proposals, and vice versa they bargain. I don't think though, that the word "bargain" is in Walker's vocabulary. Even if it is, he NEVER intended to do it anyway. Good luck with the recalls and thanks R's for 2012. Now that you have shown your true colors, it is only a matter of time until you are all as unemployed as many of the rest of us.

Hey Drano- you got it wrong! Actually I am a son of a high school teacher, but when he retired after 31 years in 89 he only made 43K salary! Now look at what teachers Hell even bus driveres make I know because I see tax returns and paystubs all the time as a lender! It is completely insane. Our Sheriffs (jail guards) in OC CA make $130k+ a year with all the uneccessary overtime they get and then when they retire at age 55 they get 90% for the rest of their lives + full medical, dental, vision That is more than some MD's and Attny's make even after 5 year+ practise The insanity has got to stop!

Why should teachers have a free ride? the federal gov. does not allow?

Teachers don't have a free ride. They are taxpayers, as well.

Ok, so how do Unions have to do with the Gov. passing three measures, that resulted in a much larger state deficit? That is the point everyone is missing. Yes Wisconson was going to have a budget short fall, Gov. Walker turned it from a relatively small short fall into a huge shortfall by passing about $140 million in unpaid spending measures. I doubt that has anything to do with the unions, or collective barganing, since those measures had to do with private business benefit, one of which really didn't need the additional funding. See, I have yet to get a straight answer out of you Walker supporters on that.

Correction...there was no deficit until your lying governor gave tax credits to his corporate friends. By the way, I hope you will enjoy writing your utility bill checks to the Koch Brothers because it is just a matter of time before they get your power companies. Enjoy.

So let me get this straight - It's okay to bail out Wall Street and corporations (after all, that hardly cost the American public anything at all, especially when you consider how much these corrupt institutions contribute to the wellbeing of our economy and society), but heaven forbid we do anything to bolster and support the middle class (it isn't like the middle class is the very foundation of a stable economy or anything...)?

If I remember correctly, corporations/Wall Street were the ones "manipulating the numbers and falsifying the facts".

So let me get this straight - It's okay to bail out Wall Street and corporations (after all, that hardly cost the American public anything at all, especially when you consider how much these corrupt institutions contribute to the wellbeing of our economy and society),

....and as an added bonus we get to bail them out so they can get the largest bonuses in history AND....wait for it....they get to contribute as much as they want to keep their corrupt puppets in office thanks to the supreme sellouts. What a wonderful day in the neighborhood! I think though, the turnout for the next election will totally eclipse the 2010 election, and larger turnouts, regardless of what the GOP says, benefits democrats.

Family Woman

Care to rethink your opinion now?

==================

Family Woman,

Unfortunately you use an idea that is unfathamable to most cons. Thinking. Faux Noise definitely doesn't want their viewers to do that. Neither does the rethuglicant party.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

BrentOC

Our Sheriffs (jail guards) in OC CA make $130k+ a year with all the uneccessary overtime they get

Brent,

How do you know their OT is unnecessary? Do you do their jobs? Of course you don't. Just spewing drivel makes you feel good doesn't it. I work in a manufacturing plant. For years I put in 350 to 500 hours of OT. Unneccessary? Not in the least. You see my company believes in keeping it's workforce on the light side, then when we get busy they bring in temps and MAKE us work overtime. Don't want to work it; there's the door. BTW---the state I live in is a right to work state. It gives the company pretty much freedom to do what they want.

Instead of going after people who make $50,000 a year, you should be screaming about the multimillion dollar payouts to those in the financial sector. Got news for you sunshine the $50,000 folks aren't the ones destroying the states. Unfortunately, for the ignorant they are the easiest target.

Maybe you should walk a few miles in the shoes of the folks you're railing against. The insanity that needs to stop is people like you posting such rediculous garbage.

Brent really a BANKER has something to say about fiscal responsibiity to this country?? It was the BANKS and LENDERS that largely created the recessions AND then used the bail out money to continue to pay BONUSES for people who were doing a completely suck-ass job, that they needed federal bailouts??? And your dad retired OVER 20 YEARS AGO!!! I have been working for 15 years and I do not make as much as your dad did in his last year, I am WELL below his salary and I have a bachelor degree...so forgive me if I am not shedding tears for you or your father!

Brent0C, are you Charlie Sheen in disguise? You have made only a single comment that is true, the rest of America is awake now. The idiots in Wisconsin couldn't have played into the President's hand any better if he had directed their actions himself. And no, I'm not a public employee, never been in a union and have no family members involved in either. I am a conservative, independent who up till now has voted for 1 Democrat in my life. I will never vote for a Republican for any office again. This has shown me all I need to know about the character of Republican politicians. There will be millions like me. But you just go on thinking 'Your Winning' Charlie!

Yo Brent,

Why don't people like you (the ones the GOP loves to fool) understand that America MUST be concerned for it's citizens?! Not just about $$$ Smarten up brother and help us take this country back from the radical righties.

How many of you are actually from WI? If you are you would remember that diamond jim doyle raised the corporate tax rate so high that companies were either leaving the state in droves.....or shutting their doors. I know of several in both cases. Granted, I do not know exactly how much of a tax deal was made....but WI needed it to get some companies back in after the horrendous mismanagement of diamond jim.

Let's also not forget about GM in Janesville with the help of the uaw and diamond jim. Push too hard and sometimes you get pushed back. GM did. They closed the doors to that plant.

BrentOC

...The rest of America is awake now

They sure are. They slept through election day '08, but they're awake now and you ain't seen nothin' yet. We've got YOUR teabag -- right here.

I am from WI

A healthy society has 3 legs gov-workers-corporations - when any specific leg get's out of balance the stool tips over. Now the corporations have all the power and it was a red herring that the unions did and the only reason people think the gov has all this power is because the corporations say they do.

The joke that needs repeating is - corp, union, taxpay sitting around a table with a plate of 12 cookies. The corp takes 11 and tells the taxpayer to watch out for the union taking more than their share.

Even if you hated the unions you wouldn't want the budget bill to pass - read it - it in fact systematically reduces the power of the legislature which is why I'm so confused on how they convinced the repub to vote for it.

My sympathy for corporations is pretty low. 30 yrs ago the hourly CEO pay was 300X the lowest wages now it is 2000X+. Jobs going out of state and overseas has more to do with greed then it does for economic survival. These corporations are playing the states on the tax rates and not on a broader set of criteria. It's the same thing with stadiums where teams play off cities against each other when they are raking in the cash.

Let me Guess you are a public employee right? cannot hide anymore behind the "Hate teacher, Hate Police, Hate Firefighter" mantra

WI, CA, NY, NJ are all broke no thanks to the hijacking of sound fiscal policy of state legislators in return for Union campaign contributions. Since when is ok of teachers, police and fire to have benefits 10 times stronger than the average private sector worker?

Unions, Go to H LLL !!!!

And when is selling out your country and the whole middle class for campaign contributions from the wealthiest of the wealthy moral? Thanks to the Koch bros. and their ilk. At least the unions are made up of hard working middle class men and women - the backbone of our United States.

Brent,

I think you'll be there before any of them. Your posts aren't just garbage but you seem to suffer from the same problem Gov. Walker suffers from. You are a liar. The union folks do not have benefits "10 times stronger than the average private sector worker". Nor are any of the states you mentioned hijacked due to union contributions.

Sound fiscal policy of state legislators? You are kidding, right? Most state are in the mess they're in because the state governor, along with those fiscally sound legislators, have been robbing their state retirement funds for years. It's kinda like the fed government using the SS funds to show less of a deficit.

Grow up. People don't like liars.

brent clearly you did not pay attention in school, as you have NO idea of the benefits unions have given the average worker...and if those hard-fought rights can be taken away via a vote, well don't be so sure that more will not follow...

And by the way, despite what you've heard from the liars Walker and Christie, public employees PAY IN for there retirement and other benefits. The very idea that public employees receive their retirement as a gift from the taxpayers is pure hogwash (if hogwash can be pure).

This is all about destroying the one major force that can hope to give the corporate PACs a run for their money. If unions go, we will find ourselves living in the Corporate States of America. If we aren't there already.

What about all the benefits the politicians get--free healthcare for life, a gold-plated Rolls Royce plan free from the taxpayers as well as huge salaries that last a lifetime? They have way more fancy benefits than the general public workers. Why aren't you going after them instead of the small fry? In all of this I have heard nothing about the politicians tightening their belts and making sacrifices like the "small people" are expected to do.

Tapado, incase you lack literacy to read, they did not pass the budget portion of the legislation, which is where the savings are to be had, this does nothing but take away the majority of public employees barganing rights, it has nothing to do with the budget at this time

tapado - Well Said and hard to argue against this in any logical debate! BRAVO!

The union agreed to pay more toward their pensions. They agreed to all the provisions that had to do with the budget. This was a back door way to get rid of the unions. This total mockery of democracy is a slap in the face to the working people of Wisconsin.

You are.

Eric, Most of us know what the end result is...... saving taxpayers a lot of money. Paid your union dues lately?

Debbie - the amount of what the Unions say is more towards their pensions was pathetic in relation to what the private sector has to pay into their Defined Contribution plans or 401(K) look up the definition of defined contribution plan vs defined benefit. you need to educate yourself as you do not get that from reading on this liberal site or any other like CNN!

WOW--What is your flavor of Kool-aid d'jour??? I realize that you can probably come up with "slanted" research to make your point. I can assure you that I can do the same, however, where is it leading us?

Sooo- lets go there. Lets kill all the unions and stop the health care. Lets continue to give the massive tax cuts after the extension runs out. Lets continue to pass "shadowy and subversive" bills, proceeduraly illegal at the least. Lets continue to erode the "socialist" Medicare/caid and SocSec. Lets continue to make the middle class and working poor pay through the nose in all kinds of taxes.

What do you get???? EAST GERMANY!!! CUBA!!!!! HAITI (b4 the quake)! Hey even IRAQ and IRAN are seemingly similiar to the outcome of the above scenario.

Me, I REALLY REALLY dont want to go there!!!!

My scenario--Lets discontinue IMMEDIATELY the tax cuts FOR ALL!!! See, I can be reasonable. The 2-3% I will lose in my pay check is nothing on a weekly basis, and for most (75%?) of the workers out there. Not gonna miss it much. That measley little amount could do all kinds of things. EDUCATION!! (Where are all the incredibly smart CEO's gonna come from when the KOCHs and ilk like them die out) With the continued erosion of the education budget, what will the children of the future learn?

Now -- I could continue but, I really need to stop. I need to focus on how the reasonably sane people can begin to reverse the damage that has been and will be done to this country all ALL THAT IS HAS STOOD FOR, by the greedy and power hungry few who seem to hold ALL the purse strings.

tapado - Well Said and hard to argue against this in any logical debate! BRAVO!

...except its all BS that only a mental midget would agree with.

America-The Land of Opportunity-Hijacked by those who believe they are entitled to what other people earn. 2010 elections have at least given us a ray of hope! Bethany, If I were to take half of what you earn and then offer to give 10% of it back, would you call that a cut? I call it stealing!

I would hardly call a year long discussion over health care 'ramming' it through! If the GOP could gather a single, logical thought of their own in lieu of the constant thoughtless push of the corporate mantra they might recognize that the taxpayer 'trillions' you refer to have been washing down the drain of 2 illegal wars. Not to mention the billions in cash that just *poof* disappeared post-delivery, pallets and all. ALL on the backs of the American taxpayer, all of us! - If given the choice to spend trillions on securing health for all Americans or participating in the deaths of millions? Hmm, back at ya! Who ARE the bad guys?

Your avoiding the point Tapedo. What was passed has nothing to do with the budget, they can't pass that portion. I still have yet to see any evidence that the reduced collective barganing will have any net benefit either, financial or otherwise.

Where exactly do I lose 50% of my $$?

Where exactly do I take yours if that is more to your point?

Taxes!! Oh please, you want a smaller government that does NOTHING to actually run the country. Only in people's personal/moral lives. You thing that the "other side" are lower than you and that we barely deserve any chance to pull ourselves up - the way you did. With a credible education, and the money to go there. Yet, now you say, NO MORE. Cant afford it. But, somehow the corporations can continue to receive the massive tax breaks, incentives and loopholes. All so that the bonuses paid continue to sky rocket, and the top 5% can continue to reap the rewards. NOW-you say, kill the unions, so that those same companies and corporations can begin to erode the working and middle class that barely scrapes by. YEP!!! I would gladly pay a percentage to preserve my way of life and hope my children can do better. Your philosophy and outlook is just plain wrong.

I want nothing from anyone except the opportunity to work towards whatever I want. That is what freedom is. People who bad mouth my country can go straight to Hell. There are cemeteries in countries all over the world honoring Americans who died for freedom. How many cemeteries are there of foreigners that died for our freedom? Proud of my country and ashamed of those who aren't!

Your avoiding the point Tapedo. What was passed has nothing to do with the budget

Eric - good luck trying to get any kind of sensible answer to that question because there is none. The only reason Rove and his money showed up is because the national GOP knows that either they will it all or they are out on their butts in 2012, because they can no longer hide behind the subterfuge of fiscal responsibility for the denutting of the middle class.

I want nothing from anyone except the opportunity to work towards whatever I want. That is what freedom is. People who bad mouth my country can go straight to Hell.

Stuff the BS tapado, nobody is badmouthing our country except the republicans that keep claiming that "someone" stole it and they want it back.

?

tapado

I want nothing from anyone except the opportunity to work towards whatever I want. That is what freedom is. People who bad mouth my country can go straight to Hell. There are cemeteries in countries all over the world honoring Americans who died for freedom. How many cemeteries are there of foreigners that died for our freedom? Proud of my country and ashamed of those who aren't!

====================================

Ahhhhh, another con who believes he/she should be the one who defines patriotism and by golly you'd better agree with them or you're not patriotic.

Let me guess, you've never served but you certainly are willing to partake of the freedoms/rights/responsibilities (oh that's right---too many cons forget that with right comes responsibilty) the men and women who have served have given you. As for telling people who don't agree with you to go to hell----let me tell you something. My father fought in the Pacific during WW2, my brother was in Somalia. I was drafted. I spent 8 years on active duty and 18 in the Guard/Reserve. I have no problem with people expressing their views, it's one of the thing that has made this country great. In your case, I'll say this, you have the right to be ignorant. Unfortunately, you, like many other abuse that right.

BTW---maybe you should take a history course studing the Revoluntionary War. The French, who so many of you cons ridicule, provided us with help that may have saved the war for us.

tapado

You are half bright, I mean half right.

Dems ram Health-care Bill through U.S. Senate

Effects: Republicans gain seats in Congress due to massive advertising by the Koch brothers

GOP rams anti-union bill through Wis. Senate

Effect: Democrats will ride the rising tide of massive popular opinion to win in a landslide in 2012

Let me see; The Democrats passed a bill that will save the lives of millions, make our children healthier and raise the standard of living for every citizen of the country. The Republicans passed a bill to gain political advantage, make the poor poorer and the rich richer. Hmm. Who are the bad guys here? If you think you can win THIS argument by invoking morality you are a fool.

No tapado that is not the definition of freedom. Freedom is the right to do as one pleases so long as you do not infringe on the freedoms of another. This law infringes on the freedom of thousands. It is the exact opposite of freedom. Your definition of freedom is the argument the South made for slavery. "I'll do what I want and those who don't like it can go to HLLL". My father was also in WW II, that gives you no special insight on anything. My son-in-law is currently in Iraq. We are all dedicated to our country. Waving the flag is reserved for those who have no logical argument to back up their position.

tapado

America-The Land of Opportunity-Hijacked by those who believe they are entitled to what other people earn.

You must be referring to people like the Kochs, knee-deep in energy speculation, artificially inflating prices and laughing at YOU all the way to the bank. They certainly feel entitled to what other people earn - they collect it at the gas pump, just for starters.

Yet you back them. Thank you sir, may I have another?

Phuck the tax cuts...........I'm a RED/WHITE/BLUE Patriotic American I don't give a rat's @ss about paying my taxes..............LET'S go back to the Eisenhower tax rates. Worked wonderfully by raising the middle class by the millions in less than 2 terms, oh and don't forget the highways, SSN expansion, home ownership, too many to detail, MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL-CONGRESSIONAL complex be damned!

Someone once said that "...patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel..."

Seems to fit tapado

Dems would have won had Walker mentioned in his campaign that he wanted to take away workers rights.........

Voter turnout for the 2008 election was 61.6%. 2010 - 41.5%.

A majority of Americans voted in 2008. A minority voted in 2010.

Which one do you think represents a larger share of the American electorate's views?

Nope, I don't have ready access to that Jack@ass Walker like Koch-brother$ have......give me a bankster and I'll give you an inmoral, corrupt, sleazy corporate-person worth it's weight in excrement.

I am an owner of two businesses, in Wisconsin, I voted for our newly elected Govenor because of the things he said he was going to do - and he is true to his word in doing it. He WON the election because the majority agreed with him. The Democrats are cowardly in running to Illinois. It is their duty to DO THEIR JOBS. If I was a Democrat, I would be FURIOUS that they are hiding and not standing up and fighting FACE-TO-FACE. 90% of the people that are down at the Capitol, protesting, could not answer, correctly, 5 questions about the bill. They are jumping on a band-wagon. I wish someone would go down their and see if they even know, or realize what Scott Walker is trying to do! Why don't they stop screaming and banging their drums and LISTEN. I am not pro-union. I believe a business person, whether they are self-employeed or part of the government, including teachers, should have to pay for their benefits just like I have to. It costs me a lot of money to "take care" of my employees - providing them with health care, fair wages, etc. etc. They do not AUTOMATICALLY get these benefits like those in the Union. Why would I want to pay someone to negotiate my salary? I can do that myself! If I had an employee run to another state, because they were unhappy with something we were doing at the office, I would fire them! They are NOT doing their jobs.....they need to get back to work! Enough is enough!

Hear! Hear! I'm with you all the way brother....

Germany is highly unionized. They have better wages, better benefits, total health care and a higher standard of living than the US. They also have labor represented on their public owned corporate boards. We have an obscene income gap and Germany does not. As a result of concern for their people instead of the few they are doing well and are now the number two exporter in the world.

Banks, wall street and big corporations run America and they are destroying our country. This ungodly gang will do anything and their government helps them outsource for slave labor. Unions fought against those treaties that cost our people so much.

Our middle class is declining, poverty is growing and the big rich get richer. This is a sure formula for depression and chaos. If we don't organize as a people and check this insane greed we are going to regret it,soon. So many have been brainwashed that they even think big money and corporate owned media are liberal. When people go against their own best interest it is a sad thing to see.

There is a movement all over the world for a better and fairer way of life. I am afraid we are mostly against that progress. People like Walker and our corporateand financial leaders are a disgrace to America and the human race.

Frank Morton-2536216 - - - I would look up those statistics you quote about Germany ... and compare them with reality.

Either you're making them up or your source is highly questionable.

or maybe y o u might be wrong, Ron.

What? Since when is having to join a union or pay union fees for public sector jobs democratic? Mandatory union membership is democratic? Perhaps democratic in term of party affiliation but not in terms of true democracy. Why should I have to pay into something in order to have a job? Sounds more like extortion rather than democracy.

You dont pay dues to have a job!! Geez--you pay the dues to have the representation that assures that you will continue to have a job, with a set amount of "benefits", a SET and LIVABLE and COMPETIVE wage. Your are also promised to have representation should any of the above, get taken away without good cause. Worth a few cents an hour!! Wish I had a union still. Now, my job can get taken away, added to and changed at a whim. And all I can do is quit, or bite my tongue. Wow--happy me!!!

Bethany, you are wrong. Have you ever been on a job interview where they tell you that the job is UNION and you have no choice? I have... Don't want to be in the union? You don't get the job.

Sure you pay dues for your Union rep to Represent you but are they REALLY representing you? I know teachers who complain that their Union reps NEVER ask for their input and lie about things (like 100% participation in things) when my teacher friend and others NEVER participated. Those are tiny things in the grand scheme, so now we have seen what big deals have gone on.

Lots of people have jobs without Union representation, and thank God for that! I am able to negotiate my own salary and benefits because I do a tremendous job for my firm. Maybe those who are lazy don't do as well, but that is their problem. I fight my own battles and am capable of handeling it myself. Unions were useful way back when because conditions were terrible, now people bitch because their parking space is too far away or the coffee in the break room is good enough. Get over yourselves.

Definitely agree that mandatory union membership should be outlawed. Takes away a persons choice to be in the union or not, like you said, and that is just plain wrong. Kind of like forcing people to buy health care...

I dont know Flamingo--

While I agree mandatory membership should be off the table, I do have to question why would a corporation/company be so UNION friendly. Arent the corp/company the ones behind KILL THE UNIONS cuz it costs so much. SOOO-what you're saying is that there are corp/companys out there that must actually enjoy the unions to make it a mandatory shop. Wouldnt they be able to choose who works for them?

Mandatory membership in a union should have been declared unconstitutional long ago. The right NOT to assemble is part and parcel of, and implicit in, the right TO assemble. Bravo for the Republican-led Wisconsin state senate for having the gonads to do what the wimps who still constitute a slim majority of the US Supreme Court haven't done since FDR was President and "packed" the court (in more ways than one).

Every basic element of today's American work life - five-day work week, 40 hour week, essential benefits, living wage -- was won FIRST by organized labor. Once represented employees had fought for those, they were passed along to non-represented employees. Non-union employees have benefited for decades from the efforts of union workers.

Once you've succeeded in killing off the unions, how long do you really think it'll be before the things YOU take for granted are deemed "too costly" by corporations?

History is stupid son, it repeats itself. Corporations want to bring all the benefits that our 3rd world colleagues enjoy right here to the States. 60hr work week, No paid leave, no health insurance, no paid vacation, no sick days, no job security and definitely have the right to kiss @ss to keep your job. Nonetheless, some 3rd world countries do require the corporations to have sick days, overtime pay, severance pay after 90 days, health insurance subsidized with govt. credits, mandatory hourly wages and so on but they have strong union presence (I can only speak for Dominican Republic where i studied and worked)...damned Unions working better in 3rd world countries.

RICH IS RELATIVE! The guy making $100 thinks the guy making a $1,000 dollars is "rich", the guy making $50,000 thinks the guy making $100,000 is "rich", get over the "greedy" corporate rhetoric. What is truly "RICH"?

The fact is....those individuals that started those companies took all of the RISK, hmmm....What happens when the so-called "greedy" corporation propers? They hire either you, a family member, neighbor, etc.?...you get a PAYCHECK! Wow! and what happens when "Robin Hood" thinking stands in the way of that profitable progress? Lost jobs, lost business=NO PAYCHECK.

Just ask an unemployed person. Where are the UNION workers when a company goes bust? A job is a privelege, not a right. It is earned. If an individual is not congruent with an organizations policies and workplace environment or payscale...GUESS WHAT?...LOOK FOR A NEW JOB. Not Rocket Science. Commonsense....which appears to be a commodity.

Indigo

That is about the 7th time you have posted exactly the same statement. You must be a recording.

Indigo-524998

If an individual is not congruent with an organizations policies and workplace environment or payscale...GUESS WHAT?...LOOK FOR A NEW JOB. Not Rocket Science. Commonsense....which appears to be a commodity.

I know someone who's been saying exactly what you've said here. Bear in mind, she's been with the place for 15 years or so, is at the top of her pay range. She feels that she's not treated with the deference and respect she deserves, and she's grossly underpaid. She's been saying that she's going to get something better. Management gig. More respect. More money. Her husband, who says exactly what you said above, has been cheering her on.

So she started sending out lots of resumes a few months ago. We're in one of the states and metro areas that hasn't felt the recession quite so strongly.

That was a few months ago, and she's since discovered that she's not quite the hot commodity she thought she was - and that there really are NOT that many great jobs just waiting for someone willing to apply. She has had exactly zero interviews. Funny, she's not sounding quite so full of herself these days.

I suggest that you give it a try yourself, Indigo. When you learn that you're full of it, please admit it.

terry

The democrats were in complete control of the House, Senate, and Presidency from January 1961 unil January 1969.

You really gotta watch what you are reading - it's crap!

Yep, and over the next 40 years we got Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Papa Bush, and the baby Bush and look where we are now! Sadly, the dash of sanity thrown in between could only bring us back to a surplus on occasion. Then the GOP washes it back into the pockets of the rich and pushes the rest of America back into the hole.

The 60's Great Society.....I remember my father telling me about how the Peace Corps from the USA used to come around his area in the Caribbean and how he wanted to have a chance to achieve as much as those nice foreigners. Thank God, he arrived to the US when Regan did something unthinkable by todays immoral conservative thinking....he was given amnesty after being an undocumented immigrant. Now here I am to tell the story about how these progressive policies gave us a chance to get out of poverty and increase the standard of living for his family and about 40+ other family members he was able to petition through his mother and father....only in America could something like that happen. The American Dream is slowly dying out, it's citizens must rise up and prevent the flame from extinguishing.

DB, it is easy to say things that misrepresent reality. While there were more DINO's in the 60's, the party still held the south by bowing to dixiecrat policies until the integration of schools policy of Kennedy. The dixiecrats weren't social justice promoters and wished to prolong Jim Crow and other conservative policies.

The GOP now holds that honor, bowing to "state's rights" and waving the confederate flag. It is a shame to Lincoln and those republicans who share the fiscal , but not the social conservatism of the Jim Crow crowd.

Counting Dixiecrats with true democrats is adding apples to bird lime. Showing you are insincere or weren't born yet.

discgolferrp - lol, they were Democrats but they weren't really Democrats. Those Democrats were really Republicans. The Republican party has more than its fair share of flaws over the years. But to insinuate that the Democrats that didn't really follow your liberal views were actually Republicans disguised as Democrats... lol

Still, you have to admit - if we left the corporations to run themselves, we'd all be enslaved to them. All they really care about is profit, sadly the government has had to step in to tell them to treat people like people. The more greedy corporations get, the more the government feels like it has to control... very nasty cycle.

Steven--my 401k disappeared 4 years ago. Havent found the money to replace it soooo--

NO! I am not a hypocrite. You?

You say hypocrite -- I say liar!

Defined benefit pension plans? History.

401K -- yeah, we got that.

How did yours hold up when the market crashed? Mine went to hell.

Since I've been in the workforce for forty years, I still have some defined-benefit pensions waiting. They're secure. They did fine.

Keep touting the sure-fire, get-rich-quick, can't lose wonders of the stock market from your apple stand on the corner.

Yeah, well, I've lost my 401(k) too before. More than once. Actually.....3 times. Completely wiped out.

But, I am not bitter and whining about it. I get back up, dust myself off and keep going.

Yup, my 401(k) tanked, along with everyone else when the market went bust.

It has not returned to what it was, but it's a heck of a lot better.

I am fortunate too to have been working for decades. I have a few pensions coming my way.

I have never been in a union.

I am not envious or jealous of what others have.

I live within my means. That means I have virtually no debt. It also means I don't have a fancy car, a McMansion, take vacations that would put me in debt.

I don't borrow today for frivolous things I want now, figuring that I will pay 'later'.

In short, I live in the exact opposite of how our Government, and too many of my fellow citizens lives.

Good thing you weren't 65+, in less than perfect health, and about to retire when your 401K tanked, StevenB. Guess you'd be working until you die.

You don't understand this, do you? Defined pensions were annuities, they were paid for, they were secure. 401K can evaporate very quickly. What kind of retirement security can you have when you're at the whim of a bubble-prone stock market?

You can let the market dictate the quality of your retirement years if you like, but count me out on that. And incidentally...

I live well within my means.

I don't borrow for frivolous things.

I don't have a McMansion.

And I've worked my butt off for a very long time, taken care of my family, played the game straight-up.

When a multi-billionaire loses 30% of his holdings in the market, he's pissed, but it will not impact the quality of his life in any way. For the rest of us, that's just not possible. This isn't jealousy - it's reality.

Those very wealthy would like to set the rules that the rest of us play by and that's wrong - it's not the same game.

Good thing you weren't 65+, in less than perfect health, and about to retire when your 401K tanked, StevenB. Guess you'd be working until you die.

A lot of folk work until they die. A lot of folk don't make it until 65 to get their SSE. That, regretfully, seems to be a good thing...since we can barely afford SS as it is.....especially when one considers how many 'disabled' folk in their 20's, 30's and 40's are collecting benefits.

And, let's face it...there are a lot of folk out there who have placed themselves on disability, simply because they're too lazy to work.

When a multi-billionaire loses 30% of his holdings in the market, he's pissed, but it will not impact the quality of his life in any way.

Then, go be a multi-billionaire.

I have been around for a while. I have discovered that folk live in the lifestyle that their income affords.

When that multi-billionaire loses 30% of his worth, he spends less. That means purchasing less goods and services. That means the corporations and companies don't sell as much. That means less income for the companies.

That means layoffs.

Everyone's did and it was under the watchful eye of the Dumbocraps that had all the power until the 2010 elections. Just because Bush was a republican Pres. doesn't mean squat when everything else is controlled by the fools in the Dumbazzcrap party. When we got Dumbama everything completely tanked and now instead of 4.6 % unemployment we have double that. When you think of all those poor Dumbmacraps that are so nice to the public just remember the likes of John Kerry worth hundreds of millions of dollars and let us not forget the likes of Al Gore also worth hundreds of millions of dollars. More dumbocraps are millionairs in the Government sector than Republicans and they did it by srewing Joe USA.

When that multi-billionaire loses 30% of his worth, he spends less.

That's just it, Steven - the multi$ doesn't spend less. He doesn't have to - even with 30% busted by the stock market, there is zero impact to his lifestyle, there's more than enough cushion. At that level, spending is irrelevant -- there's no way to spend it all. As I said -- we are not playing the same game.

For the rest of us, especially the older we are, the 401K can be like playing the lottery with the rent money. The odds suck.

I suppose because we have 2 stupid beggars caught on tape begging the Koch billionaires for money for their campaign, it's now time to attack Democrats.

At least there are a few Republicans who admit to screwing up when they were in charge, now the blind serfs are lying for them.

You guys defend the rich republicans and corporations, but if democrats are rich, they are considered 'elite'. I suppose John Kerry and his wife shouldn't sell katsup to make their millions, but it's ok for John McCain and his wife to sell beer for their millions while avoiding taxes by listing their company as a "small business"

Its unfair that Jesse Jackson makes money being a minister because he is a democrat. But Rick Warren should because he is a republican. Their money are all tax free and Rick makes more than Jessie.

If there are more democrats who are millionaires, than republicans, it just proves, by your standards, that democrats are smarter than republicans.

When democrats say "tax the rich (themselves), the republicans say no, no, no, we have to protect our other richer friends. Republicans will do every and anything their rich friends ask of them, they will squeeze the poor and middle class dry, to allow them to stay on welfare.

When the banks drove this country into an economic disaster, Bush used taxpayers money to bail them out. Now Bank Of America pays 0 taxes when they should have paid over one and half billion. Loopholes. Yet according to republicans, leave the rich companies alone, give them more tax breaks, so they can continue to squeeze the country dry. Just make sure the poor and middle class pay more, so they can make up what we gave to those poor rich people and companies.

Rich democrats are considered elites. Rich republicans are considered to be 'poor things', that needs government assistance to survive.