Unfortunately, as the only surviving child of 8 this little one will most likely suffer from a guilt complex as he/she grows up. As the soul survivor she/he will always question why their life was spared while the others died. I hope adequate counseling will be provided to help the child cope with those emotions, which can be devastating to a child's fragile psyche.

Parents should never have to bury a child, let alone 7. I am filled with sorrow and a deep compassion for the parents and their extended families, who must be just as devastated at such a tragic loss. I honestly cannot imagine how deep their pain must be...so incredibly sad.

The headline should have been, HARD WORKING PARENTS LOSE 7 CHILDREN IN FIRE. Shame on MSNBC.

I agree, Jessie. I see that they've changed it now.

"Seven children die in Pa. farmhouse blaze" reads the headline now. I can only wonder what it said before. Surely no one would wish to bring more pain on these two Bible-believing, hard working people. I lost one daughter, at age 29, 20+ years ago. One is never quite the same after that. I cannot imagine losing seven pieces of yourself.

"7 kids die in fire as mom milks cows, dad naps" was the original headline.

Wow...that is so insensitive. Way to go msnbc.

I've got some issues with this sad event.

1) Why were two of the youngest kids (2 and 3) up at 10 PM, unsupervised by an adult?

2) Why was mom milking in the middle of the night? I grew up on a farm... usually milking is done in the early morning or the day; it's hard to see what you're doing at night.

3) What caused the fire?

4) Mom couldn't get in the house yet it wasn't "engulfed in flames" till the mom returned with dad? That's a huge house. She couldn't find a second or third way into the house before leaving the scene?

The original headline was appropriate. The kids -did- die while dad was napping and mom was milking the cow. They say dad "must have nodded off on his route" yet mom knew exactly where to find him, even though he was over a mile away and she had no cell phone.

There are some pieces to this puzzle that don't quite fit. As badly as I feel for the poor kids and the people who will miss them, this sounds avoidable at best and dodgy at worst.

THX....I was thinking some of the exact same things.... one of them being that the mom couldn't find any way whatsoever into the house to get to her kids? Not being there, maybe there's more to it than that but it does leave one to wonder.

This is a very tragic and sad.

Not only that. But dad was napping after his first stop. Why bother going in to work if you can't stay awake for more than a mile into your shift? Something smells in Denmark. Sorry. The last thing I would be doing is running a mile down the road to tell my husband, hey the house is on fire what should we do? If you are that far out in the middle of nowhere, WTF is the firedept. gonna do anyways? You better be running in and trying to save your gaggle of children.

And yah, milking cows at 10pm? Roy Munson was milking the bull at the crack of dawn.

I agree..something definately fishy here. What mother wouldn't try everything to get into that house? Break a window? Try another door? Something? Anything? Weird

To you trolls who are assigning blame to the parents: Shame on you. I hope you never have to find out firsthand why you're way out of line.

You don't know anything about these people. Based on the limited information in this article you've chosen to make the parents responsible for the death of their children.

I guess it's all in perception. When I read the article, I see two parents doing their best to provide for their family.

I think that we don't know all the facts either ways. But to say "Why bother going in to work if you can't stay awake for more than a mile into your shift?" as one reader did above might not be right. Maybe the Dad works 18-20 hours to provide for his family? Maybe 10pm is the ONLY time available for him to deliver the milk. Same with the Mom. Maybe 10pm is the only time that she can go and milk the cows. Taking care of 7 kids is tough, and you take time to do stuff whenever you can. Not all people are "lucky" enough like us to plan around a 9-5 schedule. Just putting it out there...

First of all, I am no troll! I come here to read the articles and talk about them.

Second of all, I wasn't trying to get a rise out of anyone or blame anyone. I was just commenting on how strange it was that the woman didn't go to all extremes to open a door or a window to get inside. And, seriously, if you are an intelligent person wouldn't you question the fact that she ran a mile up the road to get her husband..for what?

I am an intelligent person here just trying to make sense of this awful tragedy...That Is All!! Thanks and have a great day!!!

THX, upset in Ohio, Gunnydogs and Nikita took the bait that MSNBC buried in that BS headline. Nice job guys. MSNBC is psyched to have you on board.

Looking for oceanfront property in Arizona by chance?

Typpical of the lame stream media not to include all of the facts. They always convienently forget to tell the whole story so we are left to make up our own. I know, they made the town I grew up in grow from 300 to over 3000 people in 1 day over an environmental story.

So you are telling me that all of the details they printed are false?

IF that is true then why do you come here and comment on the articles? Why are we all here for that matter? LOL

Hilarious

PS..I read more than the headline...clearly...

Look at you old biddies (you know who you are), cackling like a bunch of barndyard hens. You have no direct knowledge of anything - but you're going to cast your busy-body speculations. You have no idea what you would do in a panicked state of mind - but you'll sit at the computer in your bathrobe and pass judgement on these poor over-worked folks. Then you have the nerve to criticize those who, like myself, find your behavior repulsive. It takes all kinds of monkeys to make a zoo.

Why is everyone attacking everyone here? How old are we? Can we not have intelligent conversations without the attacks? Come on people..grow up!!!!

Woah. The original headline was flat out asinine.

I don't think it is wise to make assumptions concerning the details of exactly what happened. Get real, this wasn't that cheesy totally unrealistic scene in Spiderman 2 (Parker and the kid would have burst into flames). Granted, the article does kind of leave you feeling like you only got told half of the story.

Such a depressing incident.

To Whatwouldelvisdo...Oh, and I am actually sitting at a desk fully clothed. Do you know you sound just as bad as everyone else?

If you don't like to read comments that you don't agree with and cannot comment without the infantile name calling then don't come here! Nuff Said!!!

I must agree that some things seem odd. Milking at 10:00pm is quite unusual unless for some reason there was something else that happened that kept them away from home so late. Milking is done at the same times every day and can be harmful to the animal if left too long without being done. Dad left to go delivering and so mom was forced to leave the house to take care of the cows. I can imagine she wasn't thrilled at the prospect of leaving the little ones alone in the house still awake while she milked but really had no choice. Before we pass judgement upon these folks let us learn more facts.

Exactly! well said! I never passed any judgement..as some people on here are accusing me of. I simply stated how strange the facts were. THAT'S ALL!!!!!

What makes you so sure I was addressing YOU? I didn't mention any names. If it doesn't apply to YOU - why are YOU the only one getting all riled up and defending yourself? Man, you people can't seriously be this slow on the uptake.

Thats funny; Yabbut, Cindy

You demonize people by calling them trolls when they are asking legitamite questions. Everyone feels bad fot the death of the children. No one feels thinks the kids should of died.

The questions that was asked makes sense....
Why were they milking a cow at 10PM?
Who lets a 2 and 3 year old stay up past 9PM? If you have kids, when do you put your kids to bed? I do not know ANY parent that lets a 9 yr old stay up past 9pm never mind a 2 yr old.
The falling sleep thing is understandable, maybe it his daily routine. "Hey babe, I'm going on a delivery run", then he leaves and finally gets some sleep, because they never put the kids to bed.
No Fire alarms? They have a TV and electricity but no fire alarms?
A big old home like that and you couldn't find a way in? Look how mny windows they have. Drive the tractor through the front door. Heard the cattle to the house and have them break down the door.

Get your head out of the sand (or where ever else you have it shoved in). Parents do kill their kids. The information that was provided in the story leave out a lot of detail about the tragidy. If this is all the information that is available, then everyone should be asking these questions.

Are Mennonites opposed to smoke detectors? I hardly think so. Were there any smoke detectors in this tinderbox of a wooden house with the seven kids? My adjacent neighbor caught his house on fire and I can attest nothing wakes you up faster than a screeching smoke detector.

Don't tell me, the hard working parents had to spend money on diapers and baby formula rather than a 6 dollar life-saving smoke detector.

Hey WWED...again with the namecalling? Keep on showing your true colors ok?

Also, it might be a good idea to be more specific in who you are adressing. It's called being an intelligent adult! Just an idea

I am sure that the facts as stated are true - they are just not there in their entirety. They give no time lines. They say she couldn't get in the house. Thats all. She may have spent 5, 10, 15 min or more running all over the place trying to find a way in. She may have gone in the front door and got half way down the hall and had to turn back. She may have than tried the kitchen and couldn't go very far. She may have broken a window but not been able to go in because of smoke. We don't know how long it was by the time the three year old got to the barn and got the message to her and she got back. We don't KNOW that she didn't do everything in her power to get in. They say the house was engulfed in flames when the father got there but it could also have been engulfed in flames when she got there but they chose not to mention it then. Both cases may have been true but they only chose to "mention" it when the father got there. They give a time of 10pm but we don't know if this happened an hour or two or four after the fact. The father went to get his truck - was it in the yard or did he have to drive 30 min to his work place to pick it up?We don't know. He was at his second stop. We have no idea how far apart each of his stops are. He dozed off - we don't know that this isn't a second job and he may already have put in a full day. She ran across the street to the neighbours - sounds close but we don't know how long her lane way is or how long their laneway was or how far the second neighbour was from the first. There are two many variables for anyone to even think about speculating so why go that route? Why say things that throw suspicion on the parents? I would never "assume" that the mother didn't do everything she could - what do I have to base such an assumtion on? No information? That is no reason IMO to assume something like that. I just really don't understand people sometimes.

To Nikita: The problem I have with all your comments is that there is not discussion associated with them, they are all inflammatory and accusatory. You sound like a very self righteous, angry person. Look in the mirror and I think you may be able to see why you are receiving negative comments targeting your character. I don't think you should be accusing others of being ignorant. WE are merely observing what you are displaying so harshly. On top of that you say NuffSaid!!!!! Are you now going to tell us when the discussion is closed or do we have some say in that?!

Ok so MSNBC put a huge spin on this tragedy to make it look like the parents killed their children. Maybe its time for all of us to get the hell out of dodge and stop supporting this news source?

Alright Nikkita (as in Kruschev) - I think it takes a lot of crust to pass judgement on people in a tragedy such as this - when you don't have a clue what the Sam Hill you're talking about. Now, is that clear enough for you?

Ironically, I wasn't addressing any of you cackling hens specifically. But, if you want to take ownership - well, by all means.

Listen momatheart,

All I said was that the facts were a bit strange. That is all I said. Then all hell broke loose on me. I am a good person. An intelligent person that loves to come on here and talk about the articles and make friends. I am not here to fight. If I specifically called someone ignorant I apologize. I do not come here to name call or attack people. I feel attacked though. For a simple comment that I made. Nowhere did I say the parents killed their kids.

I am done arguing with you people.

Honestly..it's not worth it

Have a great day

"...if this is all the information available than we should be asking questions" (just a paraphase) o.k. ... well...duh...of course this is NOT all the information available. I would think that this would be a given to any "thinking" person.

I am quite certain someone has more information. I would also guess that MSNBC has more information - otherwise they shouldn't have printed anything. I beleive they "chose" to only print certain things.

There is a story I read once about a memo that went out to staff. It was considerable shorter than the "original" as written by the person who sent it and every word in it was from the original but someone had modified it by just taking out certain lines, words etc. They showed both side by side. One exactly like the other except for certain sentences, lines, phases etc removed. And they both had totally different meaning. It was quite enlightening. Now just imagine if a writer writes a story, sends it to their editor and the editor just removes bits of information to make a better story. Doesn't change any facts, just "removes" some of them. It's not lying it or anything. It's all true. It's just not "all there". And this can give a story a completely different slant. Do I believe this could happen. You betcha!!!

Well Nikkita, not everyone responds to personal catastrophe in the same way. One never knows how they will react. It's very easy to say what one would do when not faced with the ACTUAL circumstances.

Even if you are thinking out loud your comments are way out of line. Save the investigation for the professionals to perform, stop the speculating.

To those who are saying I am blaming the parents...please re-read my post 1.8. All I said was it doesn't sound right that the mom couldn't find a way into the house but I also said that I WAS NOT THERE and there could be more to it than that.....Where did I put the blame on anyone?

BTW....I am expressing my opinion on the situation as well as the rest of you are free to do so. GEEEZZZZZ....oh and I too am fully clothed and at WORK (on my lunch hour of course!)

Some people need to lighten up just a little.

Don't waste your time Upset. Clearly these people can't handle a difference of opinion. ;-)

Nikita, let me explain something to you. YOU took the bait. I was addressing the mood of the threasd in general - not any commentor specifically. Of all the people accusing this couple of contributing to the death of their children - YOU were the only one who was so offended. It's a fact that people who feel guilty, will usually respond like this.

I'm sure you are a nice person. But I think you got caught up in a dogpile that in hindsight you might not have contributed to. Actually, your original comment paled in comparison to those of other posters. I'm not here to perscute you - I was addressing the judgemental nature of the overall conversation. Your response blew it out of proportion.

Nikita, I was thinking the same thing....HAVE A GREAT DAY!! :)

I agree with Mazda in the explanation of the timeline and 'facts'. And this is so very sad, I can't imagine losing my children like this. I feel so sad for these parents and the surviving child. I wish I could hug them all right now.

I myself do still question why a 2 and 3 yr old were up so late watching TV though (or early if several hours after 10pm). I can't leave my 2 yr old alone EVER (she likes to search for pens and draw on anything she can), let alone watching TV with a 3 yr old at 10pm or later. But, its a good thing the 3 yr old was awake, it saved him or her. And who can say they have never made a parenting mistake OR who's to say the kids didnt get back up after mom went to the barn??

I don't know the answer and i don't know these people and I will in no way judge them, that's not ever my job. You usually cant make sense out of tragedy and for many people, asking questions is just a way to help them understand and help them deal with it, although there may be no answers. So, just stop fighting already amongst yourselves and send positive thoughts and prayers to this family, not all the bickering and name calling. Think of the family and what they would think upon reading this. It's about them, not you.

Bisco - I am Mennonite and like smoke detectors. I have two, plus a carbon monoxide detector as well. The batteries are changed every 6 months...

How heart wrenching. I can not even imagine how desolate the parents must feel. I pray the 3 yr old can some how have some semblance of a normal life after this.

But dad was napping after his first stop. Why bother going in to work if you can't stay awake for more than a mile into your shift?

I'm not sure why you think this was a matter of the father "going into a job". Since the family OWNED the dairy farm, he probably sold and delivered milk to his neighbors - very common in farm areas. In other words, he was self-employed, so he didn't have a "shift".

Absolutely! Unfortunately, many people are quick to cast judgement because they succumb to their own taste/desire for blood.

Most parents with young children will tell you that much of the work has to wait until the children are asleep. So, yes, since there seem to be alot of potential dairy farmers on here commenting on 'best time of day to milk', maybe if they too had 8 young children to look after then it wouldn't be inconceivable that the cows in their household were milked at 10pm. So what that a 2 or 3 year old is up at 9pm? Do they have school the next day? Is there a 'rule that children must be in bed at 8:00pm...or else??

First off the guy was in to the second part of trip or schedule, it sounds more like the mother panik and couldn't think straight. Before jumping to conclusion put your self in her place,your toddler comes running to tell you that the house is on fire, so she goes running to the house and maybe the house was already engulfed in flames, she panics and didn't think couldn't get in We were not there, so WE DON"T KNOW what really happened, stop judging.

Mazda....You definitely have the 2 most responsible posts in this thread.

I have questions also....it's human nature, but to assume answers without the facts is human err.

This was a tragic event and a follow-up with more facts would be nice for everones peace of mind.

go to the central pa news site and read the facts. pennlive .com

I am SO sorry for this family and their loved ones. Losing one child changes your life forever (I lost my 21 yr old daughter a few years ago) and the pain of losing seven is incomprehensible. Those parents will feel horrendous guilt whether they did anything wrong or not. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

Yes, Nikita, you are definitely a Troll - also thin-skinned and hypocritical. You seem to be the epitome of negativism, and do not take kindly to being corrected or having your demented personality assessed.

It sounds to me like the family had adjusted their schedule and lifestyle to accommodate the father's daytime full-time work schedule, PLUS running a dairy farm. What is the difference in milking cows at 5:30 AM and 5:30 PM versus 10 AM and 10 PM? What difference does it make whether you sleep from 11 PM to 7 AM or 9 PM to 5 AM? Maybe the mother and father wanted to be able to sleep together at the same times, and the wife is accommodating her schedule to fit. Perhaps the children are home-schooled and the mother has set this specific schedule as the most optimal. Some people classify themselves as "night" people of "day" people. Perhaps this proclivity is so pronounced in either or both parents that they have adapted to it. It comes through to me that both parents were sincerely dedicated to supporting their family, and working day and night to do it, with perhaps inadequate sleep. However, the body must eventually have some quality sleep if it is to continue to perform in an optimal manner. The father obviously needed sleep. Brains do not perform optimally without adequate rest. This family may have divided their sleep into two different daily periods as most Latinos do.

Folks, let's take the high road here and try to stress things that are positive. Twelve suspicious negative-bound trolls out there would already have these two grieving parents sent to the electric chair even before the fire has died down. This is the reason we have weekly news reports of innocent people who have spent 15 to 30 years or more of their precious lives incarcerated before being found innocent by DNA evidence. A study needs to be made as to why so many Americans, similar to Mr. Troll, always think negatively, rather than positively. Perhaps we need schooling in this area of logic, living, and our thought process.

This is a sad sad story :( I have 2 kids and the thought of anything happening to them brings me to tears. Unfortunately, the info in the article does bring on some suspicion. I want to see what info there is on insurance, both for the farm and the children...... It is sad to think about foul play, but is not entirely impossible situation. And the survivor may not have been meant to survive :(

I don't care who thinks I am being heartless. You are right, we do NOT know these people or their situation. People do desparate things in desparate times.



Still, my condolences go out to the family.

Thanks Doodle....that site answered any questions I had. Everyone on here needs to see it.

EVERYONE....GO TO pennlive dot com for the full story.

You should all check out the story at pennlive.com, it tells a lot more of the facts. The father's second stop took an hour to load the truck and it was customary for him to nap while he was waiting.

If you look at the house you can see that the windows are far off the ground, you wouldn't be able to climb in them. The ones on the front look horrible, so I'm going to bet that she couldn't get into them. I just highly doubt that she would have stood there while her children burned. This other article also said that the children's bodies were found in their bedrooms and cribs.

It's sad that so many people on here have read this coldhearted misleading article and instead of giving the parents the benefit of the doubt, they just want to lay the blame on them. If these parents had been non-working, government program people this article would not have had the same spin.

The journalist and editor at MSNBC should be ashamed of themselves for making this article sound like the parents neglected their children and maybe killed them. Shame on the journalist, you are the one that wrote this article to make the parents look so unfit. Do you not think that they have been through enough? I hope you NEVER find yourself the victim of a journalist like you.

Thank you Kelly, for a compassionate, tender-hearted, sympathetic and kind response. You have the qualities of a good citizen, and are apparently very merciful. We need many more like you! Even one like you helps restore my faith in humanity.

I have read the story on pennlive.com and concluded that I will no longer trust everything that MSNBC says. They were certainly NOT objective in their reporting, and clearly distorted the facts and circumstances.

Thank you EK Kadiddlehopper....I try

My heart just breaks for this family. I can't imagine the pain that they are going through right now, and as a mother I hope and pray that I never have to deal with such a great loss.

As people, with hearts and feelings, we shouldn't try to "hang the parents" for being human, for mistakes that were or were not made at the moment. We have NO IDEA why she was in the barns at that time of night. All we know is what this article twisted and printed. No where in the other article did it say that they were watching TV. The oldest child was 11 years old, definitely old enough to "keep an eye" on the others while her mom was outside the house...right there...

People just want to lay blame, and it's sad that they can't stop being self absorbed long enough to recognize the pain that someone else must be feeling right now.

What I heard was the smoke was so heavy she could not get into the house. The other problem was a question of whether or not the kids in the house knew what to do when they heard the smoke detector go off.

When I first was divorced we were absolutely poverty stricken. I had no support from my ex and my family charged me for every act or deed of assistance they gave me for help and stopped helping at all when I got a job rather then live on welfare. But I spent the ten dollars for the smoke detector and we used to practice fire drills. Our apt was a fire trap, nearly falling down around us but it was ll i could afford. The neighbors would sort of make fun of me for teaching the 7,5, 3 year old how to get out the place from different areas, how they should crawl close to the ground to stay out of the smoke. We never had a fire (the neighbors were entertained however) but when I heard/read about these kids, I had to think about why no one taught the kids what to do when they heard the alarm. We should all probably have a family lesson on this just to be sure the kids and grandkids know what to do when they hear that sound.

It is a terrible tragedy all the way around.

To EK Kaddidle

I am shocked at your attack on Nikita. I have read this thread very carefully and not one time did Nikita ever say anything out of line. They mentioned the facts were a bit "strange" and that is all. I am also shocked that you also accuse this person of being

#1. A troll

#2. Thin Skinned

#3. Negative

#4. Hypocritcal

#5. Demented?

Really? That's an awful big AND NEGATIVE assessment of someone you don't know. Pretty ballsy actually. I can see why Nikita left. Talking to some of you is quite a job. You seem to bash Nikita for the "supposed" negativity? and then you name call but in the same token aren't you being the same way? That to me, is what true Hypocrisy is all about. Look carefully at your own behavior here!!

People have the right to voice their opinion here whether you like that opinion or not right? Right? Righhhtttt!! LOL

Unbelievable!!!!!

This is a tragic story, but just because someone points out that there are odd facts behind the sotry doesn't mean they are insensitive to the tragedy.

The news does not set traps for people to think negatively - we do that on our own ;)

msnbc started the negative angle and played on people's negative tendacies....unlike pennlive.com

As bad as the original title could be interpreted, and probably was by most, they didn't play on anyone. The headline actually stated facts. How it effected people is still a personal thing. We may not think it was very respectfully stated, but they didn't "play" on anyone like maybe a tabloid could have.....

OMG: MSNBC did something under handed. That's just crazy talk.

Like Fox News never does stupid crap ever. Pick your battles people. Really now.

I didn't realize 2 wrongs make it right?? Thanks for that insight Disgusted in NY...

Who cares about the news agencies. How absolutely, devastatingly tragic and sad. My prayers and condolences go out to the parents and 3yr old. I can not imagine how desolate the parents must feel. But for the surviving child to have any chance, they will have to some how heal and focus on loving, & nurturing this child w/o smothering him or reminding him of the past.

"he who lives in a class house, shouldn't throw stones." No right or wrong, just stated the obvious.

Why is there so much discussion about the news agencies? Who give a @!$%#? This is a tragedy.

This is indeed a rragedy,, and point fingers dosen't do much good,

the whole thing brings up a couple of questions, having be born and raised on a

farm, we always had cows to milk, and milking took place in the morning before we ate breakfast and in the evening before we had supper. Mose dairy cows are milked twice a day, not just once. and the father delivering milk sounds like he was very busy and had not had sufficient rest in the previous days.

It's a horrible tragedy for sure, but how do you know it's no one's fault? Do you know how the fire started? How is it that you believe you can declare: "no one at fault?"

The parents weren't even in house. If one of them had been present, perhaps they could have prevented the fire, or at least they could have gotten all of the children out of the house.

Why is it that in some tragic circumstances people come with ready excuses for people but in similar circumstances you arrive with shovels filled with blame?

You don't know much about Dairy farming do you? Oh that's right your milk comes from the grocery store.

What a terrible loss for this hard working young family, I cannot imagine.

If there was someone or something to blame they have unfortunately paid an incredibly horrible price. So, Tortcots, you want to spend you time with simantics? You don't know the full situation. One day you will be judged just like everyone else by observers such as you, and I am sure that many won't be as kind as "lovely atir". The reason why people come forward with sympathy because no mistake or judged complacency is worth the death of your children, and neither parent would have done this on purpose. The best we can be as observers of this news, where it is fed to us, is to feel sympathy for the parents who lost their children, and learn from the mistakes made. Just stating what happened as a tragedy and then judging them doesn't win you any points as being empathic or anything else. Take a step back and ask yourself why you wanted to argue "it's nobody's fault." Where's your love for others?

cowwoman - What does knowledge of dairy farming have to do with the story? The fire happened at a home, not in the dairy barn.

the thinker.. I think kattlekween was getting at how on a farm it might be difficult to always have a parent in the house, in response to tortcot's accusation of no parents being in the house.

My prayers go out to this family.. I can't imagine such a horror happening to ones kids..

"The parents weren't even in house. If one of them had been present, perhaps they could have prevented the fire, or at least they could have gotten all of the children out of the house."

I agree with Tortcots. Who was watching the youngest children? Couldn't one of the older kids be in the barn milking the cows? At the same time, it is a terrible tragedy, and I feel very bad for this poor family.

What was the previous headline? I can only imagine... I'm still peeved at 'Toddler locked in over-head bin'. That one was hightly inflamatory and to find out that the story involved a 10-second game, a nut-job mother flipping her wig about NOTHING and a father that hauled buns...

As for the issue at hand and keeping in mind I enjoy a nice big steaming cup of accusatory skepticism in the morning (sorry for what's coming, Laurie): Something about this seems a bit odd. On the one hand, what a horrible, horrible tradedy. How can a parent handle that amount of grief after losing all but one of their children? I couldn't begin to fathom dealing with so much loss.

On the other hand, however: Having grown up spending weekends and summers at my grandparents farm, I am not unfamiar with the work protocol. Everyone over the age of 6 works or helps out in some manner. No exceptions, no excuses. Why were the older children not working? Was the mother taking care of the day-to-day in the barn or was it a quick visit? If she was working, and depending on the amount of chores needing attention, I guarantee she would have had one or two of the older children with her.

I know, I know. I should recognize a tragedy for what it is and move on. There are just so many unanswered questions... or, I've chosen the wrong story upon which to heap my skepticism. Forgive me if I've been offensive.

@ thethinker,& tortcots,

oblivious to what it takes for 2 parents to run a dairy farm, and hold down a job, as well not just have 1 child, but 8. I'm sure you are so full of common knowlege of what kind of ball busting, up at 2-3 am to start milking cows, and going well into dark, when most people have had dinner, and enjoy a show or 2 after, most farmers on a family run farm are still hard at it, even on the smaller farms. personally i feel you are being a tool, lacking the basic fundamentals of what it takes to be a farmer, starting with the part that includes HARD WORK. Then to find one day not only your farm is now gone, but your family as well. No the barn didnt burn down, the cows are all safe, but can you exspect them to pick up and start all over after this? I hate to break this to you two, ill-informed people (?) but this wasnt like 1 parent out turning tricks for crack, while the other was out gang-banging our passed out from shooting up on the couch. My suggestion to both of you, and any other who does not understand what it takes to make a living being a farmer hoof your lazy azz on out into the country and get to know a couple of farmers till you get a firm understanding of the concept. Seeing how out of 4 cousins, only one survived and yes, it was on a dairy farm, i know 1st hand these parents, and the child are beyond devastaded. I dont think the child in this case is going to be on the "why not me" trip, unless people pamper him into thinking it for himself.

personall comment to thethinker.... you might want to change your name, you on a regular basis seem to be lacking a majority of the time, on the "thinking" part.

Comment on the article it's self;

my heart, and condolances go out to the entire family.

@ the-thinker-318752: What knowledge of a Dairy Farming would give you is an understanding that the Barn where the cows are milked is like a house in it's self and depending on if they had machines going in combination with the cows mooing it would be hard to tell what was goin on one or two buildings away. That's what they are saying......For someone who has thinker in their name should not have a problem with this........Just sayin

I dont understand why the fact they are farmers exempts them from any blame. The fact is if it wasnt set on purpose there was a 2 yr old and a 3 yr old left unattended. She had an 11 yr old why wasnt she babysitting? I'm not saying they did set the fire on purpose but it does happen all the time. Does anybody remember the yates woman that killed 5 of her children? People snap and they do stupid things whether they are farmer, executives or crack heads.

It is truly a horrific event to say the least. I will hope and pray accusations are not blown out of proportion. I realize an investigation must be performed, and I certainly hope that there isn't additional pain for the parents that could be due to allegations of any kind without proof. My prayers and sympathy go to this family and my heart breaks thinking of the innocent children whose lives are lost. I can't help but think accidents happen all the time in so many ways but when it comes to lives being lost it goes to another level. How this family lives is there business and accidents can happen to anyone. Also, I pray for the children left and how this tragedy may have affected them as well.

How could you ever get over the fact that you lost 7 children? To bad there wasn't a telephone in the house or the father or mother had a cell phone. I'm not blaming them at all that's the life they chose.

it's really a shame what this world has become,autamaticly think the evil in people,no accident's anymore or mistakes.that poor family

Or they had practiced fire drills as a family or what to do in an emergency and the older ones were up babysitting, but we've already noted - this is a story with SOME facts. On the news this am, it said 7 children killed in house fire. With no investigation, they already report "killed". I wish the media would stick to reporting facts not sensationalism.

@ Victoria Jane: Your view point is welcome, but you can keep your child like vulgarity to yourself.

You have no idea what I have gone thru in my life or anybody else. You could be talking to a retired fireman?

retired fireman or not, then if you were you would know this woman couldnt walk thru a wall of flame. that being a fireman, not everyone has a cell phone, some find them to be a waste of $ or exspensive burden. sometimes we need to think of how someone else lives rather how we exspect them to.

My prayers are with the family, too.

@ fred...i am not a praying or a religious person, i dont believe in anything but why be so ugly about it? Religion does comfort people in times like this. Its why it was created. I've often wish I could believe in times like this.

Hey Fred, you are the idiot!!!!!!!!!!!

@ fred-2553568

I don't recall anybody asking you about your opinion on religion. Keep your insensative, unessecary comments to yourself.

religion was invented because early humans began to ask questions but were not intelligent enough to come up with a rational answer and because we are afraid of death - simple end of story - religion also creates just as much fear, hate and bloodshed not to mention greed ,power and child abuse - people should comfort people - not believe they have to go trough some supernatural being to comfort someone you will never speak to , maybe a thousand miles away - it is a crutch , makes absolutely no sense and has no actual effect - only makes the person praying feel like is they are( falsely) doing something

@fred - there are reasons people pray and have religion in their lives. because they choose so. God doesn't do wrong. he's the only perfect being in this world, and obviously he needed those angels to be with him more than the earth needed them here. everything happens for a reason, and that family will become stronger as a result of this horrific tragedy. my heart and prayers go out to this family, and may you find comfort and peace in this terrible tragedy.

Fred - you've been seriously deceived. You are speaking from a position of ignorance. I feel bad that your heart is so hardened. God doesn't "allow" these things to happen. They just happen. God gives people free choice in how to live their lives. Tragedies occur unfortunately. . .and people pray for comfort and there's nothing wrong with that. Ease up man.

@fred

Again, nobody asked you for your opinion (which isn't even pertaining to the main idea of the article). Quit trying to force your reasoning and beliefs onto people who do believe in God. What you're doing is worse than slapping a bible in a non-beliver's face.

As a very devout "born again atheist" I agree that prayer is not an answer. The story is heartbreaking and very sad. It's just a horrible accident and had nothing to do with any 'god' that we've created with which to pacify ourselves (unless, perhaps, you are one of those that believes that having more than two children is environmentally irresponsible and god is punishing all the christian sects for over-populating the world)

oh excuse me when you are proclaiming that you are doing all this praying you are not forceing your belief there is a god - what makes you right - nothing you pray because you believe - i do not pray because i do not believe - stop TELLING everyone you are praying - and i will stop telling you it is useless - and i do feel bad for these people and it is a tragedy - i do not need a mystical made up being to understand that - but at the same time i am not pertending i can help by thinking real hard - which is insane - all it does is make YOU feel better - so just keep it to yourself - that should not be a problem right after all you are praying to god and he hears you - from what im told he hears everything - ........ and so you all pray for comfort - please then do not pray for things like health or cures or storms to miss your town or god to change or do anything physical because according to keleigh and wmoz god dont play that ,but then i have heard from a number of you guys that he has the power TO change things ? you all seem to be insane and confused, for a belief in one perfect god your seem to leave more questions then facts

god can will things to happen, but some things people can decide. he gave us the choice of free will, but when he takes beings from this world he does it for a reason.

and maybe you can actually read what i'm typing because i never said such a thing.

Hey... Fred tries to rationalize his irrational view/opinion with his weak support. However, because of his fear of dying and/or death as like the rest of us has no control over.... and we know Fred likes to be in control. So he tries to justify his reasoning  and draws his conclusions and forms his absolute opinions with misinformation and/or bits and pieces of information/data gathered without even utilizing the so called steps of the scientific method before your lame conclusions are drawn?. The bottom line Fred.... Were you there when men first walked on the planet? Oh yea... thats right you proably think we "evolved" from monkeys??... and this thinking is rational?? My dog Paco is smarter than a monkey!!! Can monkeys utilize algebra? Did they build the great monolithic structures of the ancient times( which even the beloved scientist can't figure out)? Hey can monkeys pray?I'm sure you feel better and in control knowing you and other intellectual aletist like you have the answers to life/death mysteries and the rest of us "religious", "irrational","greedy", "child abusers", should follow your rationale because it makes so much sense to do so?? Yea!!!! Right!!!!

I am also a devout atheist, and I see nothing wrong with prayer. If it's just to comfort the person who is saying the prayer in light of a tragedy, so what? If it gives comfort to the person going through the hardship knowing that someone is praying for them, so what?

There is no harm in prayer. I don't believe in it, nor do I think it is helpful to me, but I don't find it offensive if I'm going through a hard time and someone says, "I'm praying for you."

david:

Were you there when men first walked on the planet? Oh yea... thats right you proably think we "evolved" from monkeys??... and this thinking is rational??

Pot meet kettle. You weren't there when men first walked on the planet either, so you can't really say that your theory on the origins of man are any more credible.

Personally, I find that evolution is a very rational explanation as to how we got here. You're using the rationalization that monkeys can't do algebra, so therefore evolution is not a valid theory?

Not a very convincing argument, but I'm not opposed to discussing it. My friend is a very devout Christian and believes in Creationism. She and I have had many discussions about it.

Different types of animals have different levels of brain function and intelligence. A sponge is not going to have the same mental capacity as a chimpanzee (especially since a sponge doesn't even possess a brain), but that doesn't mean they couldn't possibly have common ancestry. They're both in the animal kingdom.

My point is that you're getting mad at him and attacking his beliefs because he criticized your beliefs. You're doing the exact same thing.

- stop TELLING everyone you are praying - and i will stop telling you it is useless -

Again! Do you not understand? NOBODY ASKED YOU. NOBODY CARES.

no david the fact we are evolved from monkeys can be proven - just a liitle bit more then the garden of eden and the talking snake - and by the way the big bang is also fact , why would god lie to those superstitious infants and give them a false story of creation, because the one in the biblle is fantasy

Why I am not sure how you derived your opinion that i had any specific beliefs based on the short paragraph above or that i was attacking Freds belief or that i am now attacking your belief. the point i was making and I thought was straight forward is that No one alive today was there and everything is speculative at best... there is no proof and really you can rationalize it any way you like! That is the point!

Now I actually did not try to use the rationale that monkeys can not do algebra. ?No actually that is an example or a fact which I utilized in support of my rationale that we did not evolve from monkeys or at least not all of us. of course I do recall "rational" scientists discussing "bigfoot" in the news.

...oh yea out of all of the species on the planet you will not find one currently evolving into a human or a human into something better or different! this is a fact that you just can't argue against! except for that funny looking hybrid animal that washed up off plum island in NY recently. You know the one 3,000 years from now those scientist will determine that evolution is the reasoning behind the strange looking creature! (you can find the story on the Internet)This is were man has intervened mixing animal dna to create some kinda of hybrid. ....kinda like when man takes a horse and mixes it with a donkey and makes a mule! This does not happen natural world as horses will not mate with donkeys. however, i am sure a millennium from now the scientist will be able to explain this as evolution too..(so funny)

true ... different species do have different levels of brain function. However, I have not met, seen in any of the animal kingdom which utilizes geometry, cemetry, i will utilize an example for my rationale: we (humans) are builders, we create in our minds first then we manifest it. Even science tries to explain the "origins of man". if evolution is a sound theory then it would take much longer for "humans brains to develop into what they are today. All you have to do is look at history 3000 bc first civilizations according to the science community. Oh yea ... then there are those civilizations they can't explain? being 10-20,000 bc? My point again is there are more holes in the evolution theory and their view on the origins of man than in monotheism, or even polytheism. Even scientist can't agree on there theories of the origins of man. We evolved from other animals they say...then they say that aliens brought us here from other planets. The point is ... the really just don't know. If they(scientists) followed there own methods they would not rule out the possibility that one being created us because it cannot be proven scientificaly either way! Therefore, to have such a conclusive opinion without the facts or evidence to support your opinion speaks for itself. I can tell you that my ancestors are only human, not chimps, not amphibians, birds, or fish. At least we have a pituitary gland and can actually choose our beliefs.You should probably should consult your evolved christian friend as her intellect far exceeds your own. ... then again you evolved from a monkey so we understand.

Fred/Magnolla You are both definitely entitled to your opinions. Magnolla you were much more compassionate and understanding with your comments and I am sure no one will attack you for your response.

Fred you start off by calling people of faith loons and then get angry when people attack you. That is a rather strange reaction since you started the name calling. You have the right to believe there is no God. That is your right as a person with a free will. I just hope you are right. Just because you have never found comfort in God does not mean you are right. I understand how you can question His existence it is hard to grasp sometimes. I do not understand how you can be so hateful to people who can believe. If we are wrong..so be it...we die and go to the earth. If you are wrong the consequences are far more serious. I cannot speak for every Christian on earth, but I hope you will understand that not all Christians are good just because they call themselves Christ like. There are bad people in every walk of life. We pray for this family because we have hope and that should not be an affront to you. It should just show you that is our way of saying we care and our heart breaks for you....

You can take this for whatever it is worth. I am sorry you are so angry with people.

I've never been big on organized religion, but have always been spiritual. When my daughter died it threw my entire belief system out of whack even in areas where I thought there was no doubt. It wasn't enough for me to "believe" in life after life anymore, and I was pissed at God/Creator. But I have used my doubts to study all of it, and my belief system is stronger now - and not in organized religion. Some people take solace in their religion and more of us are doubly pissed at it. We don't need religious leaders telling us what to believe because we are all able to tap in ourselves. Tragedy opens doors to incalculable spiritual growth if we let it. But is a very painful process.

To Fred, Magnolia, et al. So you descended from a little cell that formed in a slimy swamp? Let's imagine hows it happened! It divided and one said "I am going to be a mosquito." The other said "I am going to be an elephant." These two got together and produced a real live thinking human, called an atheist. The elephant was the male, by the way! But, let's assume this imaginary cell kept dividing, and one cell becomes a whale and another becomes a giant redwood tree. Tell me, please, when and HOW did the sexes form from these cells? When and how did the pollination process get started? When and how did humans start being male and female? How did it occur? At what part in the process did the genitalia form? How did they multiply before the sexes were formed? Please give us some answers, you genius atheists!

Hey fred... I don't think history is your best subject and actually the big bang is not a fact it is a theory as it is known as the "big bang theory" while it is a good speculation of how things came into being that's all it is. that's like me saying all the dinosaur piss and dung created methane gas which in-turn was released and trapped into the atmosphere causing a cooling affect (like ammonia) which sent the planet into an ice age. ...sounds like a good theory and I'm sure you would believe it if a scientist suggested it and aired it on the science channel.

did someone say GOD? Religious people believe in GOD. It is a very believable because GOD is hard to not believe if you think about it long enough. So, by believing in GOD, religious people do so with prayers and their ways.

Fred is expressive. The really bad guys out there are the ones who does not know to separate GOD and the DEVIL; these bad guys would believe GOD and the DEVIL is one. Knowing this can help you keep faith pure or not.

are you scared yet?

I want the genius atheists to respond to post 6.20 above! What are you waiting for?

Kadiddlehopper - to much to go into here. Read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, it's the best recomendation I can give you.

Kadiddlehopper, you really don't understand what the theory of evolution says, do you? What you said made absolutely no sense. And yes, before anyone says it, it is a Theory; it is constantly being taken apart and reassembled as knowledge increases. Gravity is just a theory, too.

jujubefruit- i agree .... the confusion we are accused of having for our beliefs and ways is really the other way around... as those who are truly confused tend to believe what others tell them or what they watch on tv and don't take responsibility for their own actions. If I belive there is no God ...then I don't have to worry about my actions there is no accountability. Sin is a creation by man God is a creation of man the devil is a creation of man.... Man wrote the Bible.. Man made up false stories and passed them down through all the generations.Therefore, 70% of the population on the planet

believe these lies as our ancestors are not credible to there testimonies and anyone who beleives such fairytales is a scitzo .Because we choose not hear the "voice of God" nor do we seek his wisdom... This is what the atheist say in their heart. Instead they place their belief and faith in thier own lusts their own desires trusting in the same men who would have them believe we came for some other source ...some other way.. anything other than a supreme creator called "God".

It's a good thing Fred was not around when the world began. We would have all the answers by now.

poor Fred....:(

Hey lunatic.. you should try switching your reading material from fiction to non-fiction.

oh and bitterrooter- how ironic !!! here is some truth for you

" a root of bitterness springing up troubles you therby many be defiled"

However, I don't believe the theory of gravity will help you with that.

Reference, please? I read a lot, fiction and non-fiction.

I would start with studies in ancient history texts,documents,books before you approach scientific theories of today. what happened in the past is happening now. and ts not evolution. and just don't believe everything you read, maybe the ancients knew a bit more of the origins of man than what we might think.

Yes, please start a fund for them and make the info widely available, so all that can, and want to will contribute.

My condolences to the family...may God be with you...

I live in the area. It's a Mennonite family. They will take care of their own.

LifeLong... I am a Mennonite as well. I am also human. We all have the same pains and needs. In a time like this (which I can only imagine because I haven't been there), I would guess this family could use whatever support anyone wanted to give. Yes, the community of Mennonites will do what they can to assist where there is a clear need, but can one assume that their "OWN" can cover the costs of 7 funerals - as well as rebuild their house? I hope they had life insurance, but it sounds like they were a family business & life insurance in businesses is not usually held on everyone.

They may have tremendous needs the locals cannot cover. If a fund is started, I hope I come across the info so I can make a financial contribution. A prayerful contribution has already been lifted.

Can you let some of us know if we can help Concernedone, Lifelong?

Not sure if this is going to work... Here is a listing of some Monnonite churches in the Blaine area. One of these numbers might get you to someone who can direct any aid to the family.

God bless.

Places for Mennonite church near Blain, PA

Newburg Mennonite Church

- Place page
maps.google.com - 103 West 2nd Street, Newburg - (717) 423-6004

Locust Grove Mennonite Church

- Place page
locustgrovemc.org - 3358 West Main Street, Belleville - (717) 935-2164

Allensville Mennonite Church

- Place page
allensville.pa.us.mennonite.net - 1156 Pennsylvania 655, Belleville - (717) 483-6774

Living Springs Mennonite Church

- Place page
maps.google.com - 500 Ridge Road, McVeytown - (717) 899-6247

Maple Grove Mennonite Church

- Place page
maps.google.com - 115 Maple Grove Road, Belleville - (717) 935-2513

Strodes Mills Mennonite Church

- Place page
maps.google.com - 7131 US Highway 522 S, McVeytown - (717) 899-6894

Valley View Amish Mennonite Church

- Place page
maps.google.com - 110 Applehouse Road, Belleville - (717) 935-5284

More results near Blain, PA »

If you go to pennlive.com there is an article there about a fund that has been set up.

a fund has been set up ,, you can find the info on the link..pennlive.com

Thanks so much!

The media is twisting the headlines, in an effort to profit financially off of this tragedy.

It is truely sad when children lose thier lives.

I feel compassion when adults lose theirs also. All lives have relevance to most.

Was there a different headline at one time?

"7 kids die in fire as mom milks cows, dad naps"

The media did not twist the headline. Isnt that exactly what happened? The headline tells the truth, pretty harsh, but the truth no less.

When I saw the picture of the house on the Home Page with the caption that 7 children had died, I immediately wondered why no adults died and whether the children had been alone. The information about where the parents were was one of the first things I wanted to know.

Thanks PBZOE: Yeah, that's pretty darn disgusting...

I agree, as factual as it may have been stated, that other headline does sound more horrific than the story was after I read it.

Tragic no matter what.

a fund has been set up ,, youcan find the info on the link..pennlive.com

I apparently did not see the original headline as others say it has been changed. However, MSNBC should definitely be ashamed and worse to publish this disconnected series of words as their front page article. It is impossible to try and figure out why with all these kids only the 3 year old went to get mom........who was milking cows at 10 PM.........while all the children were up watching TV..........and never ran out of the house while it was smoking and burning............while dad went out to get milk......?? leaving his dairy farm and wife milking cows and kids watching TV at 10PM.

If anyone can make sense out of this mess and tangle of words please let us all know

I did not see the original headline. The staff at MSNBC are in the business to peak readers attention to a particular story, and also to push their own political agenda. They can't imagine what it must be like to watch their home and family members go up in smoke.

It puts the day in perspective, doesn't it? Bless the family for their horrific loss.

Yeah, that headline was kind of BS. It's not like the mom was out dealing crack and the dad wasn't anywhere to be found.

OBXRon, the father left the house at 10 pm "on a milk run" because that was his job. He drove a milk truck. The news report this morning stated he typically left the house at that time to start his runs. According to the chief of the fire department who was interviewed on the scene this morning, the father was down the road at his first stop and had nodded off as he waited for the farmer. After the mother was alerted to the fire, she tried to enter the house but was unable to, then she went across the street to the first neighbor, who wasn't home, then went to a second neighbor who then called 911. The mother then ran to where she knew her husband would be, at his first stop. This seems to vary a little from what the MSN report says, but this is what the chief said happened.

Such a horrible tragedy.

What was the original headline?

There's nothing wrong with the headline. You're just thin-skinned.

You know what happens when you assume. This is a tragedy, and until more is known, no finger should be pointed!

Beth Boyle...As sad and tragic as this story is, I too said to myself that something doesn't add up. The article is poorly written adding to the readers confusion. ( The dad gets in his truck drives a short enough distance for the mom to bang on the truck window to wake him before she runs to the house ??)( From smelling smoke to fully engulfed in a matter of moments ?) Maybe an update with more information will help explain it.

you are a jerk Beth

How is someone a jerk for speaking what may be the truth? No one is wrong for stating what they feel. I felt the same thing. Read some other accounts on this as well. There is something very wrong. If you had ever experienced bad parenting as I had, you may feel differently.

There is nothing wrong with saying what you think, but if one reads a story such as this and concludes foul play, there is something wrong with how you think.

If you had read the article, it says he had dozed off in the truck. At that hour of night and having probably been hard working all day. You jerks WHO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS WITHOUT READING like Beth give ME THE CREEPS.

Beth,

Speculating out loud like that without additional facts is uncalled for and TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE!!

If you had ever experienced bad parenting as I had, you may feel differently. - Carol

I had the worst sort of parents, and I DO feel differently FROM YOU!

IF there was any wrong doing, I'm not seeing it here! (or anywhere else! I too looked at the other stories and listened to the State Trooper explaining the situation)

That poor family! Not just the parents but the extended family as well! 7 children dead that is so heartbreaking! And you'd rather get up on your high horse and start putting the blame on the parents before there is ANY evidence to support your claims! SHAME ON YOU! - that is just evil!

Are you even a parent? That mother was in PANIC MODE! SCARED **ITLESS! Her babies were inside that house and it was on fire!!! Think of how YOU would react! What would YOU do? (Oh I'm sure you'd get out a garden hose and save the day right?)

Though I do want to add that finally it seems that these sorts of people or, 'jerks' as they have been called, are in the minority here! It has been just these sort of morons with their suspicions and accusations that have caused so many problems in this country. THEY are the ones that need a reality check on what life is like in society today, especially for working families.

Perhaps it's about time these self righteous sob's started spending some time gaining some understanding and truth about other people and their situations before they opened their mouths to start condemning and judging them. If they did that they might develop this thing called compassion, and if they did that, perhaps life for ALL of us might get a bit better. (at least we wouldn't have to deal with all those who hope and want for bad to happen over good)

I would guess that most of us have no idea the inner workings of a dairy farm. I do know that agricultural farmers here in the midwest easily work 18 hour days when they are putting in the crops or harvesting. How can we just assume fould play! I have a friend who pays an enormous amount of child support. He works two jobs so that he can support both his families. The second job is at a local newspaper managing the route deliveries early in the morning. He has fallen asleep at the wheel three times in five years. He has gotten lucky and avoided major injury, should we suspect foul play? Maybe he has a deep seated self hate problem and secretly wants to die? Or maybe he's just real f'ing tired and falls asleep!! Poor family deserves our thoughts and prayers, not the paranoid comments we feel based upon our own life experiences!! God Bless them all!!

Jerks etc. aside.......

.The real problem with this story is the way it is written. MSNBC did its' utmost to present first a poor headline (that I did not see) and second the most disconnected presentation of the facts that could have been slopped together to confuse the readers.

I kind of have a feeling that dad milked the cows for the morning milking and then took the truck (I'm assuming he drove a milk truck) on it's rounds. She takes the evening (night) milking and wasn't finished by the time he came to pick up the milk so he took a nap while waiting.

This isn't that far out of story if you've milked as many cows as I have.

The article that has been updated has alot more information than the original one. Even now it is poorly written. Posting the first article left the reader with many more questions than answers and I think was irresponsible to publish.

The headline was akin to " Nero Fiddled as Rome Burned "

And to the Beth bashers....She pleaded to be wrong about her gut feelings the original article left her with....

There have been far to many stories of parents harming their children....Anyone would be hoping that this was not another one of them.

back in 96, when my children were small, we used to go camping. My wife and i would go to the neighbors campsite and sit and talk while our three young children slept. I would go back to the camper and check on them every half hour, and grab another cup of hot coffee. i always had the coffee pot going.

One Sunday afternoon my in-laws were there and everyone was sitting out at the table eating when my wife smelled something burning. We looked at the camper and it was almost fully engulfed. The reason for the fire was a faulty coffee pot. Had that happened at night when i was at the neighbors campsite Lord knows what would have become of my children.

So no, you can't put the blame on these parents, accidents do happen.

I live in the area. What the article doesn't say is that this is a VERY rural area, with a large number of Mennonite families, and this was one. While they don't eshew electricity as the Amish, they still live simple lives. The milking is done by hand. The husband was probably out delivering the bulk of the evening milking. This is how these people make their living. They are very independent, hard working people. To suspect the husband is beyond cynical! The article is poorly written.

How can you possibly accuse someone of such a crime when you probably know nothing about it? So easy to hide behind the facelessness of the internet and make horrible accusations to further add to the pain in the lives of people you don't even know.

one possible explanation as to why the house went up so quick is it looks like a very old building. dry wood would catch really quickly.

Traveler-

The point of entering into these discussions is to present and absorb ALL points of view. With the article so poorly written, is it beyond your scope of reasoning to understand why there might be a few red flags? I admit that I don't know all of the facts and I hope and pray that I am wrong in feeling there is something compounding the tragedy that has yet to be learned.

I just can't help thinking something is amiss. If my suspicions have offended anyone, I apologize.

former, yous suspicions are an offense to decency.

Beth, I too hope you are wrong.

I AGREE I am a farmers wife and hrs very with ever farm some have even gone to 3 milkings i no farmers that milk 12am and 12 then there is the other live stock as well i grieve with the family and friends even if i dont no them .I have 3 children myself .no that I am there to support the family and that presous child and that my family have them in our hearts and prayers!

I agree, I really expected to do battle with people commenting blame on the parents because the title of a story sets the stage for people's comments. I am really glad to see nobody being heartless like they usually are and not giving into the temption of agreeing with the writer who obvisiously thinks what he thinks. I hope he can stay perfect the rest of his life because it really hurts when you arn't perfect. He did it to get our attention, and he got my attention quick, these writers have completely forgot how to be a human being, they say how their striving so hard to help and inform the public. They don't give a rats a-- about anybody but theirselves and selling their magazines. Writing the story that will win them that Pullitzer prize.

Most of these writers are self absorbent idiots who have never done an ounce of real labor in their lives. It is hard for them to identify with the pure exhaustion of a long manual labor filled day. They have bigger mortgages than they can truly afford because its all about show to them. A sparsley furnished house a penchant for cheap scotch and horrible marital loyalty define their simple lives!!! Wow see how easily I cast blame on the writers! I have no idea as to their real personal lives, but I can just as easily paint a nasty picture with my broad stroked penmanship!! Maybe those of you who write for a living can pause, reflect for a moment and realize that journalism is supposed to be an impartial presentation of the facts of the story that is still well written. Save your personal impressions for your incomplete works of fiction

The chance of MSNBC hiring someone from the USA are slim... its far too easy to outsource to India still.

I am so saddened to hear of this tragic event. My sympathy and prayers go out to the family

Trust_Verify, Maybe you should have verified that you were making a comment to the correct article

trust, it`s not where the person lives that is the problem, but finding someone who isn`t biased is the problem.

it is a problem if English is a third language learned while studying in Korea. It is amazing that while Microsoft can write a basic spell/grammar checker they don't use it and it seems their stories are never proofed by someone who actually understands English.

You know, I have to agree with that. I have noticed myself more and more misspelled words in their news stories, and it makes you wonder what their editors get paid to do besides taking up office space.

No Kidding! I am a better editor than those people that get paid to do it.

@ David 1262: don't hold your breath. They haven't in the 10 years or so they been on.

Lord knows, it won't be easy!

Dairy farmers are very hard working people. The cows must be milked when their udders are full, regardless of what time of the day or night it is. The work continues until it is completed, and it doesn't matter the time of day or night. It just goes with the territory (I lived on a dairy for 15-yrs). This is probably the schedule that the parents have done on a daily basis, and their children have always been safe, no doubt snug in their beds, fast asleep. Sadly, this time they were not. I can remember a time in my young childhood, when the milk man would deliver our milk, several times a week, in the wee hours of the morning, so that people could wake up to fresh milk on their door step.

This family will never be the same. I hate it that people would 'blame' the parents for this tragic event. Did they make a mistake by leaving their children in bed, while they carried on with their chores? Possibly. But how many of us who are parents could stand up to the same scrutiny, if we were to be examined as to how we parented our children? We've all made plenty of mistakes, some could even be deadly mistakes, but yet we and our children have survived none the less.

I hope this family can be comforted, and is able to heal as time goes by.

lorene, @ 10 pm i think the kids being in bed while the mother did chores was the right thing. it's a tragedy and an accident.

HATR_HURTER ~~ Thank you, you have clarified my point precisely........everyone in the household was doing exactly what they were suppose to be doing. There is no blame here, just an extremely sad course of events.

agreed and amin.

They are Mennonite. Most work is done by hand. He has to deliver the daily milking while fresh. It was the end of a long, hard working day. It's just the way it is. The story doesn't explain all that.

John C ~~ cows must be milked when their udders are full, regardless of the time of day or night. Milk is delivered in the wee hours of the morning, so that people can wake up to bottles on their door step for their morning coffee, and milk for their childrens breakfast. That is how it's done.........and the father takes a nap in his truck, so as to be able to finish his route before day light. A schedule he and his wife no doubt have had for years. If you lived in a farming community, you would no doubt have a better understanding of how these things worked. Children on farms as young as 9 or 10 are driving tractors, and the farm truck, in order for the work to continue. It's simply how it's done. There is no need to try and pick it apart, find fault with it, or use it as a reason to cast a dark shadow on the parents at this time. There was nothing maniacal about their actions.

John C - You have clearly never lived on or worked on a farm. It is good for you however than someone does.

Sunlwin Maung ~~ and maybe if YOU had of been there, you could have saved the day, and been the hero. I think you answered your own question, when you said "IT DIDN'T MENTION IN THE NEWS....." and since it didn't mention details in the news, could it be that there are details that have not yet been published, or that you in all of your infinite wisdom are not aware of? You sound like a BEAST to me. Get off your high horse.

umm... and what exactly were they supposed to do? A water hose is hardly going to make a dent in a fully engulfed wooden house.

You are an amazingly cold individual. I pray tragedy never comes over you and forces you to eat your words.

Its not beastly to wonder and ask questions. yes yes we all know they was hardworking farmers what does that have to do with anything? I'm wondering why the 3 yr old walked out and then she couldnt get back in. They were on a farm wasnt there plenty of tools laying around she could have smashed in a window? Why did the 3 yr old come out and none of the others did? I'm not assuming anything. Nor am I gonna trust with blind faith because they are farmers. I dont know about the mennonites but amish people are very neglectful parents. I use to live in amish community and my dad drives them for a living. They go to many many funeral for childrent because of stupid preventable accidents.

jbled, I'm astonished to read that you think the Amish are veryneglectful parents.

For those who live in the big cities, there are certain pit falls to look for, areas to avoid, and places that we would never go, and things we would never do. Some things are common street knowledge. A person who was not street/city wise would not necessarly know these things that are otherwise common knowledge among city dwellers. It is the same for those raised in rural areas, on farms and ranches. There is a way of life among the latter, that is common, acceptable and otherwise safe. So, to express that there may be tools laying around that one could easily smash a window open with because they are farmers, is just plain stupid. In the face of tragedy, one doesn't always think clearly and precisely. Not everyone knows what to do in the event of an emergency. I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it.... "It's so easy to point a finger and judge another, while stating what YOU would do, but if put in that situation, you may very easily find yourself doing something entirely different."

Do your homework...She couldn't get near the house because of the heat. Have you ever experienced this? I doubt it.

NO, the Amish are NOT neglectful parents! Sorry, you are dead wrong about that. I know them well. They are far more caring than the average American.

I agree with Lorene: If you (I mean "you" in a very general way) were put in a similar situation, there is a good chance that you would not be thinking straight. Try to put yourself in their shoes before you slam them.

The national news is trying to make the parents out to look stupid and that they did nothing to help their children. Our local news is covering it well and is explaining details (ABC 27 News). For one, the mother did try to get back into the house, but the heat was so intense she couldn't get in. It has nothing to do with busting windows, she couldn't get in because of the heat. These are homes that were built out of wood in the 1800s. They are OLD and go up very fast. After trying to get into the house she ran across the street to get help and no one came to the door so she went to the next house. After help arrived, she RAN...actually witnesses say she sprinted with her three year old down to a farm where her husband was picking up milk in a tank truck. For those of you who don't understand, the tank truck stops at farms and hooks up to a farm's milk tank. After doing so, they sit there in the middle of the night, by themsleves, in the quietness of the night and WAIT for the milk to transfer to the milk truck. It takes sometimes an hour or more. At times, the driver may nod off becuase quite frankly there is nothing to do during that time. It is not like he drove down the road, pulled off and went to sleep. Being from the same area as the Clouse family, it is SOOOOO frustrating to read all of these comments from people who have only a small part of the facts. I've learned to NEVER EVER stand in judgement again. The national media is trying to make these people into terrible, horrible people. They are DESTROYED over this - trust me! They are such nice, God fearing people who loved thier children. This community is devastated for them and we are so hurt that so many who don't even live around here or know these people can pass judgement! This is far beyond sad!

To all of you who must think negatively for some reason, think it if you must, but don't say it. You do NOT know the damage you are causing, seriously!

God bless the Clouse family. As a parent I can't even imagine what you are going through first to lose 7 of your children and secondly to be nationally critized by people who don't even know you. As if you won't already fill quilty enough. Your community cares about you deeply and we are all here for you. May you somehow find peace.

Kim-very well said!!! I am a milking mom. When I heard this tragedy, it struck very close to home! The house and farm look identical to ours. Our situations are very similar. Reading some of these comments really disgusted me!!!!Some of these people need to spend some quality time in church!!!! I think more people need to come out to a dairy farm and find out what its really like to live and work here. Don't get me wrong, I love the dairy farm but it is alot of work. No vacations, no sick time, no maternity time, no shopping malls, no spoiled kids and no beauty parlors, new houses, boats, vehicles, etc., etc., etc. But its a GREAT place to raise a family. Just like us, I believe this couple works their butts off EVERY day to support their 8 children and farm. Dairy farmers work and/or must be oncall 24 hours a day. Believe me, it is very hard to make ends meet on a dairy farm. This is just a tragedy. No one is to blame! I cannot imagine the pain they are going through. They lost 7 children and they also lost their home! How do they begin again??? My heart and prayers go out to this family! May they find peace.

Kim,

you are so right. My heart is breaking for them. Not everyone is holding them at fault...I am not, and many others are not. Some people just can't help their own very selfish "I'm better than you" thinking. I just pray that this family can come to some sort of healing, and find peace. I also pray that these self righteous people that like to point the blame never find themselves in this position.

Please give my condolences to the family...the town...you are all in my prayers.

Only if it is constantly reinforced by well-meaning but clueless therapists.