Better you and your family than some fathead conservative wanting to show off how big his gun is.

WTH???? Sacred????The only way they should be allowed to hunt buffalo is with a bow and arrow. And after the kill, they should have to eat the heart raw and thank God for the bounty! No shooting with a gun!!!

It's about eating them ! kinda like how I like to fish and eat fresh fish instead of fish that smells like fish, like what rots in the stores! Catch and release doesn't put them in the pan.

Stop killing innocent animals. Period. Everyone!

These "natives" no more have their ancient survival skills than do the white man. Drive out in a 4 -wheeler, use a high powered rifle to "take advantage" of a out of season hunt - then, go back to the bar and brag on your kill!

Be a man. Hunt on equal ground unarmed like your prey.

Common Sense - that's not how men hunt. Where have you been? Men hunt with their brains, not their brawn.

It's more than hypocritical to have the view that they shouldn't be allowed to hunt as part of their tradition. It's important to who they are as a people. I live in South Dakota for 10 years and--what's more human, the kill and the slaughter house kill. The meat itself is much leaner than beef and always range fed--readily available in the gourmet or speciality meat section by better grocery stores.

We took their land, we reeducated their children while cramming Christianity down their throats, game them "Christian surnames", moved them from any desirable land and killed or jailed all dissenters. Leave then with an ounce of dignity and the right to practice a tradition.

Common Sense:

Do you prefer the run them off the cliff method of the hunt?

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but when I see a picture of a bison like that, my first thought is MMMMMMM. Now I'm hungry. Where did I put that muktuk?

MTMike, just who do you think is primarily responsible for that fact(by the way, fish and game ends where their land begins. They can legally hunt when they choose, courtesy of the following article from the 1855 treaty

ARTICLE 3.

And provided that, if necessary for the public convenience, roads may be run through the said reservation, and, on the other hand, the right of way, with free access from the same to the nearest public highway, is secured to them, as also the right, in common with citizens of the United States, to travel upon all public highways. The use of the Clear Water and other streams flowing through the reservation is also secured to citizens of the United States for rafting purposes, and as public highways.

The exclusive right of taking fish in all the streams where running through or bordering said reservation is further secured to said Indians: as also the right of taking fish at all usual and accustomed places in common with citizens of the territory, and of erecting temporary buildings for curing, together with the privilege of hunting, gathering roots and berries, and pasturing their horses and cattle upon open and unclaimed land.

Which, Gallatin National Forrest happens to boarder the Nez Perce tribal lands.)

Ellebee, people have been hunting and eating animals, since before the rise of humanity, don't count on it stoping anytime soon. Welcome to the food chain.

As a white person I am truly appalled at the short sightedness of all these people who complain about the Native Americans and how they hunt. "They should only use bow and arrows, they should be on horses, use their ancient survival skills". The original people lost all that stuff when their ancestors were almost all killed off and their culture destroyed by people like you. As far as I'm concerned those guys can have all the Bison they can get, anyway they can get them. And the rest of you great white hunters can go commit unnatural acts on each other.

Eric, aren't people part of humanity? you made no sense there... I'm just saying...

I think it's great. I have no concern that the natives will over hunt them and people hunt all the time. To those who are making a big deal out of it, screw you, whiners! Get the hell over it..

That's a whole lotta buffalo wings.

"Stop killing innocent animals"---show me the guilty ones.

Common Sense--"Be a man. Hunt on equal ground unarmed like your prey."

Remember that when you viciously take that knife to that carrot tomorrow.

Stop killing innocent animals. Period. Everyone!

Just as soon as the lions and tigres decide to stop killing for their meals. Humans are not built to be herbivores, we are omnivores which is why we have survived as long as we have. You can give up your evolutionary advantages if you want, but as for myself, I will not.

Buffalo is tasty. Animal rightleftists are probably tasty too, being grain fed and all. lol

MeatEater, yes we are, I am talking an evolutionary stand point, ancestral species of humans have been eating meat for a millions of years. Carnivorous, or, in our case, omnivorous species have been coming and going for a very long time, at our current evolutionary status, the human body requires largely an omnivorous diet, not at strickly vegetarian diet, as ellebee's post seemed to have suggested(unless they don't consider the slaughter of bovine, poulty or swine apart of the "stop killing innocent animals" statement). Anyways, my point was the killing and consumption of animals has been going on since before our branch of humanity rose, and I doubt its gonna stop after our branch has since gone extinct.

I am pleased our Native American brothers have once again the chance to hunt buffalo, something I never expected to see in my lifetime. Now their cultural heritage can certainly survive. It's a good day.

"Natives"? Do you mean "Native Americans" - like those honored at the National Museum of the "American" Indian in DC - the center and architect of the destruction of the indigenous peoples (those first comers here before the white man) of this continent? What a contradiction and a joke! These "tribes" are not Native "Americans". That's the feel good, politically correct name given by the white man of this age to the indigenous peoples of this continent; in an attempt to assuage what was the bloody defeat of the "first comers" - their sworn enemy. "Native Americans" was far, far from what these peoples were called during the Indian Wars of this nation - savages comes to mind for one. The white man arrived and conquered these first comers after bloody and barbaric war making by both sides. America (Americans) is derived from Amerigo Vespucci an Italian map maker, having zero cultural connection to indigenous peoples as Native "Americans". How condescending for the white man dominated culture, in this age of "white guilt" for all things, to include these cultures not as Natives but as Native Americans. Thanks a lot to the white man on behalf of the indigenous peoples! Like all human kind these cultures lost to their invaders, not unlike England over Ireland. With the Native American logic the Irish in Northern Ireland are Native Englishmen? Are Canadians "Native Englishmen as well? By the way, making war, invading and claiming territory, scalping, throat cutting, torture, enslavement and rape wasn't something invented by the first comers just for the white man - it is what these cultures were doing to each other eons before the white man arrived. The pitch is that we just want to believe that these peoples were all one happy family until the evil white man arrived. Scalping was a learned behavior by the white invaders and used for "bounty" and barter just the same as the "Native Americans" were doing. All this is what all "humans" do throughout the history of mankind - not just white, red, black or yellow - all "humans". The indigenous peoples, first comers, are where they are today because they simply lost and in this case for now the white man won. It is important for all ethnic groups to cling to their customs and traditions like hunting "tatonka" - but know this - these tribes fought hard, aligned themselves with each other and formed strong alliances with the French (French and Indian War) against the English (white) invaders and ultimately lost. Like most things these days however we avoid allowing the truth and history to stand in the way of feel good " tatonka hunts", allowed by the "conquerors", "the great white father in Washington" - and prefer to be Dancing with Wolves! By the way - me a "pale face".

You may feel guilty, I don't know. But I made friends among the Utes when I lived out west... They know me and I know them.

I understand the sentiment that these Native Americans are hardly using traditional methods to hunt the buffalo. On the other hand, we should understand that the US Gov't did everything possible to wipe out all traces of their traditions and culture.

The genocide executed upon the Nez Perce in particular is one of the saddest chapters in all of human history. They simply wanted to be left alone. They moved several times to avoid federal troops, and yet the troops continued to hunt them down. In the process Chief Joseph proved himself to be perhaps the greatest general ever produced on American soil. Ultimately, the Chief led the Nez Perce to Canada where they thought they would be left alone. But US troops crossed the border into Canada to continue their carnage and drag them back to a reservation where we could complete the destruction of their culture. It is an incredibly sad example of what humans can do to other humans. Google it: Chief Joseph - Nez Perce.

I hardly begrudge the rag tag remnants of these once proud tribes their right to kill a few buffalo to honor the traditions of their ancestors. These were not the protected buffalo within the confines of Yellowstone. Those herds have been steadily increasing in recent years.

I truly hope the Umatilla, Cayuse, Nez Perce and others are allowed to preserve a small remnant of their culture and former glory. We owe them much more than these few crumbs.

For those calling on the Native Americans to only hunt by "traditional" means, how about you go out and get your dinner with a spear and some rocks. You know, the "traditional" way of hunting that comes from our Neanderthal ancestors.

Let us know how it works out for you.

That is a fine post---msammanolly.

Why don't we all go back and live in a cave for a day because it is "part of our heritage". Eat raw meat, grunt at each other, and rediscover fire.

"Stop killing innocent animals"

These are the same idiots that think that beef, fish, and chicken magically appear wrapped in plastic in the back of the grocery store.

I have seen packing plant operations - I would much rather see an animal go down in the field that the way they are taken down and packaged for our "civilized" city folks....

BTW - do you city types realize how much stuff is in your meat that isnt meat? Hair, bugs, tumors,,,,,, Do some research into what is acceptable as passing in a processing plant.

It is why I raise my own beef and chicken..

This is pretty much a joke. Bison breed well with good acreage, their numbers continue to increase as it is a range fed, hormone free lean meat. You people wouldn't be going on about the moral aspect of hunting if someone shot a damned cow and invited you for a T-Bone. Those teeth, that we have--the "Canines"--they are there for a reason.

Yea, yea, yea. Put some on the ancestral Amana and put the rest in the sacred Frigidaire.

I wonder what percentage of "native blood" Mr. Marsh and Mr. Nowland are?

1/4?

1/16?

Nice try - and why don't you go back to were you came from?

You too moron........

Larry?
Moe?
Curly Joe?

Nice try - and why don't you go back to were you came from?

Just a guess... you flunked American history repeatedly?

Mr Bison, this court finds you guilty of being one tasty critter in the first degree and sentences you to 6 minutes per side on the nearest grill. There. Now he's guilty. The story is about returning a right that was stolen 150 years ago. How they implement that is a moot point. They came, they saw, they shot, they ate. that's all folks.

why are there so many haters here ? they should hunt with the most modern methods possible ! that is exactly what their ancestors did ! and it really is land that my ancestors took from them by force so im ok with them hunting their own land and QUIT HATEIN !!

They lost the war. Get over it.

Actually, it wasn't their land first. They just got here before the Europeans did. American Indians/Native Americans crossed over to North America tens of thousands of years ago from Asia.

The image of Indians riding horseback is also an import. Horses were not present in the Americas until the Spanish arrived. There were ancient horses in North America (along with sabre-toothed tigers, giant sloths, camels, etc.) but they died out long, long ago.

As sad as it is, all pre-European Native American cultures died out shortly after Europeans came to the Americas. The current Native American cultures are but a shadow of what they once were.

And for the record, I had nothing to do with the mistreatment of the Indians of long ago. White people (and Indians with a grudge) need to get over the injustices of bygone days and get on with living the best they can.

Hmmm, first of all, they were here first. That's what makes them "native". By your definition, even Europeans aren't really native to Europe. After all, if you go back in time far enough, there was a time when there were no people in Europe either. So I guess there's no such thing as a native European either?

Second of all, I just love your "oh well, what's done is done" attitude. I just hope you're still so open minded when Latinos become the majority, in a few more years.

Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians! ... I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God's heaven to kill Indians. -- Col. John Milton Chivington, U.S. Army (1864)

Al... particularly ironic if you consider the fact that the southern american population wasn't wiped out to the degree the north american population was. So, mestizo considerations aside, still... the new world natives are simply on pace to be the majority again.

There's always some cynical a$$hole who has to comment. Maybe you can go back and carry on your European ancestors ritual that brought us to this point; which was to kill Native Americans and steal their land.

Well said!

Not at all your ancestors came to the most plentiful land the world has ever known and wiped out just about every form of life in North America in under 200 years........the Native Americans hunted for thousands of years and never abused the land like you parasitical people did.

How can whites be such hypocrites? Easy....its in the very nature of the white man to lie /cheat/steal and then accuse everyone else of doing it.

Wow, Mick, you are one huge stick in the mud. Who pissed in your Wheaties? The hunting of buffalo with a rifle started when the idiot Europeans brought them over here to wipe out every living thing they found, human and animal.

You need to remember, it was the White Man that brought all these guns to America, the Indians didn't invent them. In fact the Indians made everything themselves until the White Man came along and forced them out of THEIR native land.......need I go further? Let them have a little of their past to hang onto!!!

Mick your the only one with any common sense. All the rest of these bleeding hearts would give it all back . Ya i bet.

maybe you should go back to europe and waste what clean air and food they have....becuz people like you haven't grown up yet, always take...take...take...when the white settlers and gov't at that time...defeated the natives by ONLY by technology and sheer numbers!!!

We as natives know what is tradition and what has been lost as well, you the, "the_mick" needs to be alot more open minded!!alot more!

There are literally thousands and thousands of animals still roaming these states. Get off your friggin couches and kissin your wives ass to make you processed meat and take a trip out and look. You panty waist mama's boy liberals crack me up.

Don't worry, Davy--we've pretty much taken care of the problem. The native population continues to dwindle and life expectation on Reservations is around 50 y/o for males. The "I live on conquered ground" mentality is why we will never be a decent country again. That entire European Superiority rant should be considered a disease. The racists in the Plains States refer to them as "Rez N------s". There can never be enough that whites to do to make up for genocide.

You all need to remember none of us were around 200 years ago. Quit acting like someone on earth right now is responsible for it.

"The Mick" - not China - COMMUNIST CHINA!!! 60000+ of my generation have their names inscribed on The Wall in DC who died in the effort (and failed) to stem the spread of Communism in Southeast Asia - Viet Nam - and now our nation and economy are in debt to a Communist regime (that underwrote North Viet Nam in our defeat) to the extent that Obama entertains (kisses the ass of) a Communist dictator at a State Dinner in the White House. Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave!

Bobby Jones--it's our heritage and it goes back centuries. We own it, like it or not. I've been to Pine Ridge and other Reservations. Just outside every single one are 3 businesses, liquor stores, payday loan places, and "Buy Here, Pay Here" auto sales. Yeah--we have them pretty much still as captives. The world has never know such a consistent murderous land grabber than the European white male.

There's nothing left to take. They've lost almost all of their heritage.

Well---let Ronnie Boy spin in that grave. That guy was the scourge of humanity. Tripled the debt and all on the military contractors.

Mars. We did not steal their land, they did not show a title to the land, who did they get it from?

For Native Americans, the process of killing animals and using plants involves a spiritual journey. We don't just take without giving thanks. So an offering and prayer is given for that entity... that is the reason it is a spiritual ritual...no white man or other nationality will understand that. Just like how we do not comprehend how a form of democracy was established through the killing and displacement of millions of Native Americans. We have our rights, like those fighting for human rights in other countries, to be treated and respected by fulfilling those broken treaties by the federal government. Read your 'real' history books people and understand the real truth... Native Pride!

The_Mick

"What "sacred ritual"? You mean the "tradition" of hunting bison? Isn't that like my European ancestors' tradition of hunting deer, using the antlers for picks, the hide for clothing, etc.? I don't do that now because I have better alternatives. So do these tribes!"

Better alternatives like plastic/synthetic clothing made from oil? Where do you get your tofurkey? Did you make it yourself? Whining urbanites that couldn't survive a day in the wild without a gameboy or a cellphone.

Wow, thanks for being culturally sensitive.

I wonder what you mean by "better alternatives"...costco? safeway? Corn fed antibiotic filled steroid injected beef...government commodity distribution (which started when the US took traditional rights away). .. Yummy.

We traditionally use tools available to us...cars and guns included. No harm done to you (shall I go back to wearing fur and cedar bark dresses too?)

You who have issue with this act have obviously never had any rights infringed upon, nor the backbone to take those rights back.

Come hunting with me.

sandtrich,

I am not saying it's right. I am saying it happenedand nothing we can do will change that. So why do we still blame each other for it? It is not the first heritage to disappear either.

I also read about the Mongol and Persian empires. The two largest ever and most ruthless. White men were prey to these people. Aztecs sacrificed anything that walked. Churches fought holy wars. Jews were Egyptian slaves. China has had many ethnic wars. Indians even fought between each other.

It's a human problem not just something whites did.

I also think Indian culture eroding is not a result of history. It has more to do with humans developing new technology.

mike ekim? mmm!! a title? did Russia have a title when the U.s bought Alaska from the Russians? NO!! did France have a title when Jefferson made the Louisiana purchase? no! did mexico have a title when the Texicans won indepence from Mexico and create the Republic of Mexico? NO!! So, why does a racist pig like you Mike expect a title from Native Americans to prove their ownership? oh yeah thats right, because you are a racist pig that has no concern for anyone else.

First of all, no one came to Europe and forced your ancestors to stop their cultural practices. Secondly, I'm not sure where you live, but I live in Texas and can tell you that many fat rednecks participate in ancient tradition of hunting deer while intoxicated on cheap booze. You can observe this ancient tradition of your European ancestors every year from the first weekend in November through January. Don't pretend to be high and mighty. Plenty of white people go out and hunt deer, quail, dove, turkeys, javelina, elk, and buffalo. All these Native Americans are doing is participating in an ancient ritual in a modern context. Just like any other hunter.

I like how everyone these days seems to think that all evils have been done by the European white man.....

Im trying to figure out how to get some money since my ancestors were enslaved, killed, tortured, relocated, etc.. by the Assyrians / Byzantines / Greeks / Egyptians / Romans / Goths / Mongols / French / English / Army of the Potomac / Democrats.........

"All these Native Americans are doing is participating in an ancient ritual"

My ancestors (Native American) used to run into a rival tribes village in the middle of the night and kill every man, rape every woman, and enslave every child.

Just playing Devils advocate to put the "tradition / ritual" thing into perspective. No offense meant to anyone.

Bobby Jones--I don't suffer from "white guilt", nor do I think we should make it a national past time, yet---whites have always been remiss in writing the history, 4 generations from now, a generation will be rightfully owning up to what we are doing right now. Let's try to give them less to apologize for--unlike our forefathers.

Mike Ekim. Did anyone ask to see a deed? Who would have or could have read it.

beingfrank

i feel ya and i cant understand all the haters here about this and i say this as a white man that beleives that the american indian really got a chity deal BUT shouldnt your handle be eaglefeather or something lofl just kiddin ...

Salem----sure---sure.

santrich,

I hope four generations from now they are writting and talking about all the technology and social programs our culture has been working on.

Maybe by then people will be smart enought to know intellegence and technology will set the world free. Something a big portion of the world has not figured out yet.

Bobby Jones---I hope you are right. Thanks again for a spirited, yet civil debate. (Can't help but notice that we both refrain from low blows).

santrich,

You as well.

I always try to be civil. I admit my emotions sometimes get the best of me. I like reading other peoples views. Sometimes they make me see things in a different light.

I find when I refrain from those low blows you were speaking of I can get informed responses.

To be fair to the spirit of going back to the day... all Europeans would have to get out. You should probably reassess your view. The treaty doesn't say anything about involvement of firearms... the European migrants nearly eliminated the Buffalo for sport, and brought their own replacement (cows). Now, if you say hopefully they have hunting limits as far as numbers that are sustainable... fine. But if you truly think things should be JUST like they were when the tribes hunted Buffalo... guess the non natives should leave.

clin..."To be fair to the spirit of going back to the day.. all Europeans would have to get out."

Why do you subjectively stop at just before the Europeans got here? Why don't you go back about 20,000 years when nothing was here but plants and animals? You know, before the Asians of that day migrated over here and stole the land from the animals. For that matter, why don't you go all the way back to where American Indians and Europeans had a common ancestor? Then you could say they were cousins killing each other.

Because I replied to a post implying that the true spirit would even be having no horses because the Spanish brought them. Not my proposal, I'm simply stating what the true spirit of the proposal I replied to would mean.

Well...in that context...OK....sorry for jumping to conclusions.

As a white person I am truly appalled at the short sightedness of all these people who complain about the Native Americans and how they hunt. "They should only use bow and arrows, they should be on horses, use their ancient survival skills". The original people lost all that stuff when their ancestors were almost all killed off and their culture destroyed by people like you. As far as I'm concerned those guys can have all the Bison they can get, anyway they can get them. And the rest of you great white hunters can go commit unnatural acts on each other.

When only the Indians roamed the country, there were no shortages of game. Killing something for which you have no use makes no sense, or at least it did not to my ancestors. It still doesn't.

Sadly, it does not surprise me to see the snide and ugly comments. The US may be the most politically correct nation on the planet, but that small courtesy is not and never has been extended to its indigenous peoples. As was commented in a movie, "The U.S. government promised us that we would have our lands for as long as the sun shone and the rain fell. We got screwed."

Some things just don't change. And for those of you who think that the tribal members in this story did not sacrifice enough to be able to do what, by rights, they should have been able to do unhindered for centuries, try being out in knee-to-waist deep snow for many hours while locating and then killing and slaughtering that bison rather than taking it to some meat processing place to be butchered while sitting comfortably in your living rooms watching the ball game AFTER you sat in a heated blind to shoot it. Until you have done that, and done it many times, you have not even remotely earned the right to whine and snivel, much less criticize.

Ya, it is better just to get your meat from the butcher where it is all killed and prepared by hand. lol

So Barlow knows how to cut and paste. The "Indians" should be using the weapons of 1855. It is funny how they want to maintain a sacred tradition with modern weapons. Pure BS. I'm so sick of hearing how the "whiteman" owes them this and owes them that.

You have hit it right on the head!!! I agree with your train of thought.

If things were the way they were back then - Dems would be conservative and Republicans would be liberal - and city folks would still be in Europe.

I like it, lets go for it.

..."To be fair to the spirit of going back to the day.. all Europeans would have to get out."

And all "Native Americans" would have to go back to Mongolia or Siberia.

or to Europe, if you buy into the whole 'North Atlantic ice bridge' theory. Many anthroplogists think that some tribes actually originated in Europe.

Some think that Ecuador was settled by Japanese.

And what of the Clovis culture? Those nasty, heartless "Native Americans" ( from Mongolia and Siberia, no less ) just came here and slaughtered them all and took their land away!

Andrew, the mormons think the Native Americans are descended from Jews of Israel (google the angel moroni). No, really.

Would be best to google National Geographic's "Human Genome Project", to trace different haplogroups (people could join, I did). Four lines came into the western side of this continent from China - as measured by DNA testing. And, there is one line coming into Canada that is also found in Scandinavia - they are unsure how - but the theory floated a long time about seafaring Vikings, so who knows? No one was writing this stuff down. The Japanese DNA comes out "ethnic minority Chinese", with China being, as I recall, 2 distinct haplogroups of migration East out of what it now "Arabia". My relatives hung a left to Europe. Mind you, this began probably 50,000 or more years ago.

Andrew, try reading. Once again, the reply was in response to "They didn't have horses until the Spanish brought them". So, if the intent is to go back to just prior to the Spanish arriving... I said what this would mean.

You are incorrect about where the Clovis are expected to have come from on top of this.

Of course, as Cassandra points out, bickering simply means everyone should go back to Africa. Do you fancy this? No? Well how about considering what a treaty means. Perhaps it should be honored? Do you think?

Nah. Whales are intelligent creatures. Bison are really big cows.

BARTOW

u r the man YES SIR !!!!!

Please read up on the tribes in the Northwest that do have permission to whale hunt bobbo. You mised that longboat by a mile.

i live on the rez ,noble race u guyS gotta be jokin

Ridiculous. The 1800's are over. White men killed so many Bison, we all should be ashamed. No one should shoot an innocent animal period.

Please ellebee, as you bite into your evening pork-chops...again, please..get a life outside your local grocery store and quit acting like you have the right to tell someone else what they should believe in or feel is part of their culture. Let's have someone come into your house and start smacking your ideologies around and see what you have to say.

I wouldn't if I could find guilty ones.

ellebee

"Ridiculous. The 1800's are over. White men killed so many Bison, we all should be ashamed. No one should shoot an innocent animal period."

So you must be a vegan. Must be boring being you.

And if not vegan, where do you get your meat? You think it grows on trees? game meat is better than anything you can buy in a store, and healthier.

An important part of their culture? It is really easy to remember your culture and history when you did not know how to write.

They are no more "noble" than anybody else. The way certain cultures are overly romanticized is just silly.

It was a stone age culture. They killed and made war on the people who were here before them just like any other culture.

They didn't work metal or even know how to use the wheel, for cryin' out loud.

Noble, my arse.

Geez, Native culture is not the only one romanticized, ever read the poorhouse records for the states, or over in "Merry Olde England"? If you weren't part of the Tidewater Elite - who do you think were populating the open lands and doing the physical labor? The indentured poor and slaves. Oh, but everyone was livin' the life. Not.
For what it's worth, George Washington came to admire the Native peoples greatly, and attempted to protect the treaty lands. Read "His Excellency", Ellis - p. 214: Quoting Washington, "I believe scarcely any thing short of a Chinese wall,", he lamented, "will restrain Land jobbers and the encroachment of settlers upon the Indian country."
His assistant, Knox, estimated "that federal control on the frontier would require an arc of forts stretching from Lake Erie to the Gulf of Mexico and garrisoned by no fewer than fifty thousand troups". (Not doable.)

Hey Andrew, they knew enough to teach the pilgrims how to survive when they got here. Hmmmm maybe a little gratitude for that act of kindness should be displayed here.

This is THE most ridiculous comment I've read. Enough Bison have been killed. Period. Let them live. This is not about "owing" anything to anyone. People are killing innocent animals. That's the point.

ellebee, you can't put the buffalo on the grill alive, that just ain't right, but when properly cared for they sure taste good!

You are ridiculous ellebee, for actually thinking you have the right to tell someone else what they have to believe. Do and believe what you want to, because if you haven't noticed, other people let you. Get your ideology and comments out of others beliefs unless you want someone telling you what yours have to be.

ellebee...

PLEASE, PLEASE tell me that you don't eat meat, eggs, fish, etc...because otherwise you would need to quietly crawl down from your soap box and not say another word about innocent animals being killed. Oh wait...aren't plants living creatures too? Or has your religion brainwashed you into believing what is 'meat' and what isn't. Humans are part of the food chain...do some research on parasites that every living animal (yes, we are animals) have living inside them at any given moment...something is feeding on you and me right now (hope you sleep well tonight). Humans will be long gone in the future and the earth will still be here...I'm willing to bet money on that. Now excuse me, I have some delicious beef jerky I want to snack on while I drink my beer and read some more of these rediculous posts.

GO INDIANS!! (not Cleveland)

@ ellebee

Did you know that many of the bison each year are culled (killed) by the park service? That Montana does not allow the bison off the yellowstone park land and that if they cannot be driven back on they will be killed?

Doesn't this sound like a better solution? Allow Native Americans to hunt them and use the meat and hides? Allow them to honor their traditions and culture?

I am not a Native American but I am a hunter and I too feel the need to connect to the land and MY history by hunting.

@ellebee

You know how I know you're a vegan? You're not going to change anyone's minds and you're just reinforcing the stereotype of the smug, holier than thou vegan.

"I am very happy that the native american can get something from those who lied and cheated them out of all they had."

Yes, and now they should make amends to the Clovis people since they lied, cheated and stole their land and killed all the megafauna in the Americas.

Perhaps instead of telling Europeans to get out of the land they were born in and the land their families have called home for hundreds of years they should apologize to the Clovis people and then go back to Mongolia.

All humans are ultimately African. Stop with these silly arguments from a century or more ago about 'whose land it is'.

Anyway, I thought "Native Americans" didn't believe in the concept of owning land?

@ Andrew ....who said

Perhaps instead of telling Europeans to get out of the land they were born in and the land their families have called home for hundreds of years they should apologize to the Clovis people and then go back to Mongolia

This article was about a Buffalo hunt...nothing else. Uneducated ranting aside...you really have no point here do you?

You don't see any of them saying that is sacred tradition either. Just you. Although, most of all... if they wanted to hang themselves by their nipples, they actually could. Just like you. Not sure what your point is?

The buffalo aren't ranched... did you read the article perchance?

@ Clinpsych: Did you?

Yes. And you?

I completely agree. Those days are gone. Enough have been killed by everyone in the past. Time to stop killing innocent animals. They don't have a chance.

As a white person I am truly appalled at the short sightedness of all these people who complain about the Native Americans and how they hunt. "They should only use bow and arrows, they should be on horses, use their ancient survival skills". The original people lost all that stuff when their ancestors were almost all killed off and their culture destroyed by people like you. As far as I'm concerned those guys can have all the Bison they can get, anyway they can get them. And the rest of you great white hunters can go commit unnatural acts on each other.

about 60 % of what you say is silly. but indeed there's nothing traditional about killing Bison with a gun. With a spear or arrow yes. More skill there. But a gun ho hum. Fictional Movie but The last samurai sure has a point to the end of that. Either way it's their right. I'm not going to stop them.

Just so you know the Natives aren't hung by there nipples in a hot tent, they are outside hung by there Nipples to a prayer pole and yes they still do this, it's part of the Sundance tradition and it is practiced by more tribes in the west and plains states then you can probably count!! You need to get your a.. out of in front of the T.V. and go see a reservation one time and talk with the elders and you would find out that this is still practiced!!, instead of talking out of your a..

And as for hunting with rifles instead of bows, we as Natives saw you come into our country with them and we watched and adapted to what you did. It has been the way from the begining of time. You see an idea work, you use it. Just like the horse from the Spanish. We saw, acquired and used them to our betterment. And if we as Homo Sapiens, didn't learn things, and better ourselves the whole world would still be living in Caves. You sure use the way we farmed, three kernals of corn and a fish for fertilizer. And you sure took our inventions of potatoes, tomatoes, and corn to your people to enjoy. So i see you used our stuff, so take your thought and put them where the sun doesn't shine. More power to the native for hunting and sustaining there customs and traditions, because you sure practice all yours without some Native whinning on what you do!!

And didn't your your kind invent the pencil, what is your a.. doing on a so called computer, why don't you go back to your ancestral ways and trying writing notes instead!!

Your last statement shows you don't know anything about Native Culture. What

you were refering to is called the "Sun Dance"' and yes it's still held by many tribes ,but is not held in a Hot Tent,but outside. Doubt you have the guts to partake of the Ceremony'

"Its also their tradition to be hung by their nipples in a hot tent"

City people watch a LOT of TV.

Most of those who are making these comments would FREAK out if they found themselves on the Rosebud or the Navajo Res. where you cant see a light at night for as far as you can see.

Who cares really? The point was somebody claimed it'd be absurd to claim hanging from nipples as a right... without considering that said person is perfectly free to do so. It's about somebody saying "you'd be an idiot if you were able to" without realizing that he IS able to. Totally irrelevant to anything at all.... totally self proclaiming ignorance.

I'm a drop native american. which some say makes me native american. Whether thats true or not I've almost always sided with their side. Takes more skill to shoot an arrow or throw with a spear. Now the spear is not quite feasable. but the arrow should be. Especially if Ted Nugent loves being an a** with one.

Agree.

not sure who's the stupid one. Parents were up at a SD rest area and big sign says not to egg the Bison on. But there was some idiot doing just that and seemed scared out of his mind when it came charging. (hello anyone home in that head of yours? can't read right)

The hunting of bison is only important if it brings the community together. A couple hunters running around with a high powered rifle does not achieve what bison hunts did in the past. This is bison manure! It's just a few people wanting to use their heritage for special personal provledges and not for the community.

It's the same as an Indian tribe North of Seattle (Lummi I believe) that got busted overfishing Puget Sound for Chinook salmon and tried to export them for profit. They got busted because the refrigeration on the container failed and the entire forty foot container filled with fish spoiled and the smell gave them away.

Native American communities deserve their rights, but individuals do not!

OMG you guys! Don't you feel a little bit responsible for coming here and wiping out the buffalo/bison? If you don't, we all should. Everyone except the natives, because they lived in harmony with the wildlife for thousands of years. It only took us a few decades to decide it was totally fine to kill every last one! Theese hunts are protected by treaties! Enough said!

Only $750 if you score a nonresident tag in Montana. And they are not ranched buffalo. Alaska (100), Arizona (45-65), South Dakota (35), Utah (60), and Wyoming (42). The numbers are available tags and all are wild hunts.

And for those who don't like hunting, eat your tofu and gag on that crap.

Not so.

Do your research. There are a lot of guided hnts for buffalo in the west, the herds are very healthy. However, some are ranch (penned) style and should be shut down. Do some checking and you can find a nice outfitter in central Colorado who does horseback guided hunts in the high country for a reasonable fee - maybe you get one , maybe you dont, but awesome experinece either way.

They do gators like that down here. 100 tags a yr. I think. They're talking about going to 200 next year getting so many. Got to win a lottery to get a tag though. I read a little on that story before. It's the bison that leave Yellowstone in the winter. The way I read it though the park was wanting to thin out the herd some if my memory is correct. It's not as good as it use to be. lol. Also I read the bison are carriers of brucellosis.

AGW - if you want to "keep it traditional" - then YES, keep it traditional, like your forefathers. make your bows and arrows. make your clothes, and make your teepees.... Just like they did. Then at least some would agree that you would "keeping your traditions". And, yes, if it means that much to you...you have the ability. Not that I endorse it though. I think it's awful to kill a Bison in this day and age. We are not living in the 1800's anymore. Don't you think enough of them have been killed by everyone already?

I'm sorry but if you call it traditional your stuck with keeping the Image of Traditional. Yes they have limits but they also knew that if they opened the season they would catch hell for it so they concocted this hunt because no one will protest the "Traditional Indian Hunt". Use again by the whitemen.

Hey I hunt with a bow and if I was given the opportunity to hunt buffalo on this hunt and they said I had to use a traditional bow I would get one make one what ever it took to make the hunt. And I'm not an Indian.

That's about as silly as saying you have to have a bow to hunt elk too. The catch limits is the point, not the method.

By the by, if you didn't notice... natives used guns for centuries before the bison disappeared. You are only trying to dictate someone else's traditions. Would you like the same treatment?

Well, I'm sorry but our old traditional way of life was taken away from us everything! Isn't their something traditional that you as a white person do now that you still call tradition but don't do the exact same as your ancestors?

ellebee

Yes, I as a white person have a lot of traditions. Fortunately, it doesn't include killing an innocent animal with a rifle. And, if it did, I wouldn't do it. You know why...because I don't have too. I would be smart enough to know that it's wrong, even if my great grandfather did it to survive. I have evolved enough to know that taking a gun to an animals head while it is standing in an open field is just wrong in this day and age. Leave it in the history books. Please. The days are over.

That argument only makes sense if you support banning hunting with a gun from everyone period. After all, those days are over. Not sure what else you'd have against a native with modern equipment.

Listen, I don't have anything against Native Americans. As a matter of fact, I am part Mic Mac. I have a problem with people killing animals. Period. White men and Natives killed enough of them for all of us. I say just leave them be. They are beautiful animals. We once..already almost wiped them out completely. Why do it again?

The point of the original comment in this string has been missed. Tradition or not, there is no NEED to hunt bison by any of these tribes. It's not as if they have been surviving off of twigs and berries for the past 100+ years because they were prevented from hunting bison. These animals shouldn't have to die so you can harken back to a 'fonder time' and celebrate with pomp and circumstance. There simply is no NEED for it, tradition be damned!

Agree.

If you eat a burger--you're a hypocrite.

ellebbe, I hate to break the news to you but they don't just magically come up with food in the back of the grocery store.

ellebbe, If God didn't want us to kill animals for food, why did He make them out of meat.

Ah, I get it. Some of you don't LIKE the fact that these HORRIBLE men just KILLED that beautiful animal with a rifle! No need to HUNT any animal, right? You would rather have your meat herded down chutes and killed with a hydraulic rod shoved through their brains, just as long as YOU didn't get your hands dirty, right? All that ICKY blood! Sorry, gents--you're being hypocritical. And to all of you whining and wailing about the taking of the animal by Native Americans--GET OVER IT!!! My forefathers were hunting the great buffalo LONG before the first colonists arrived. The animal is hunted and killed; thanks are given for the food and clothing to be taken from the animal and the blessings of our Grandfather for allowing us the privilege of doing so. Then, the animal is used. NONE of it is wasted. Contrast that with the white buffalo hunters. Many of them would walk within range of great herds of the animals, and set up shooting areas with powerful Sharps and Ballard rifles. These animals who knew NOTHING of these strange men would stand and be shot down wholesale--to be skinned for their hides, and thousands--THOUSANDS of pounds of edible meats left to rot in the dirt.

The Native American hunted--and vast herds of buffalo roamed the Plains for thousands of years. The white buffalo hunter arrived--and almost hunted the animal to extinction within ONE century. Oh, and for some of you saying that there is no NEED to hunt the animal by Indian Tribes? You visit some of the reservations; see whole families having to live off the government dole because none of them can find work that pays worth a darn. See elders literally STARVING because they have no living relatives, or living in poverty because there is no one to help, to take care of them! SOME OF THE PEOPLE THE MEAT GOES TO MAY NOT HAVE EATEN A DECENT MEAL IN WEEKS!! Yes, tell me again how this is a waste. Why don't you save your comments and go actually SEE a REAL Indian Reservation before you speak?

Traditional methods of taking change , use to be game animals were driven over the cliffs , then that changed , to stalking close enough using camoflauge to use a spear , that gave way to use of the bow , combined with use of horses , during the 1800s the introduction of firearms came about and they to were used, the point is methods of traditional taking of game evolves , and those methods have changed with society.

The changes come about because of effectiveness , and some times nessesity , today the effectiveness of use of a fire arm lends itself to a very quick kill , at minimal risk to those performing it , i can remember many times either walking up on a supposedly "dead" animal to find out the opposite and nearly get a foot in reply, and have heard the stories of hunters , being gored ,spiked and kicked , by a downed animal they thought dead .

Rituals happen before during and after a hunt , we all have them if we are hunters. One of mine is the before hunt meal the night before , we have apotlatch meal , everyone in camp contributes something to the pot , and the meal is divided by the olderst person present . an example of a during the hunt ritual is after a kill is made , Mine involves a moment of thanking the animal for teaching me patiance , thanking it for feeding my children and to be able to teach them that every living thing depends on another and that inorder for some things to live , some will have to die , and that all living things have apurpose and deserve respectin life as well as in death.

An example of an after hunt ritual for me is the traditional liver and onion meal the night of the kill

rituals have their places , traditions have their places , and they all change . From the article i gather that alimited number of permits are allotted for this hunt to the tribes , they traditionalluse to be able to do this , now they are able to reintroduce hunting back on traditional hunting grounds , this is a ngood thing I think , it is for them like people that visit Lexington or Concord on the 4th of July, or on Apr 19th it connects them with their past and what many before them did , out of season hunting to the rest of us is because we live by whitemans rules and laws , tribal rules and laws are another matter and differ , if a state and a tribe can reach an agreement , that too is a good thing because , it shows they can work together .

Ellebbe, I to being born and raise in New England have some of those same Mic Mac roots , mixed with other Algonquin and Iroquois nations with a healthy enough dose of the european immigrants that came to that area , yes Im an american mutt To me its the person that doing the hunting, you say there is no need for hunters today , that is your opinion, but hunters fill a spot that the settlers emptied when they eliminated the large predators , when they unbalanced the scales of the ecology of the areas , now with the use of hunters , wildlife is thriving but still because of displacement and habitate depravation , need to be managed so that desease does not run because of overpopulation , or starvation , opr any other myrad of problems ,Hunting is actually ther most cost effective way to do this , with regulations and laws . I learned to hunt back in NE, from those that had respect for the animals and the land a long time ago I now live in the Wy Rockies , and have taught my children to hunt as I was taught and taught them the importance of Stewardship of the land and those animals that are on it , and I will always be wearing my Moosehide Moccasins on the first day of hunting , just as I have since I started hunting 30 some odd yrs ago that started out as a superstition , but has turned into a tradition for me, and as long as i continue to hunt , hunting will never go away as needless.

miter, tradition be damned? Not when it comes to the memory and legacy of a people. The North American Native people hunt not only for food but also to honor the traditional bond we have with Nature, Earth, the Creator, and the bounty of the wild. When an animal is taken nothing is wasted, thus the thanksgiving after a kill. Native traditional practices are the right of the Dine, the People. Maybe that sounds like crap to some, but to the Native it's Life.

ellebee

"Don't you think enough of them have been killed by everyone already?"

You are obviously against all forms of hunting. That doesn't matter. The population of bison is on the rise and needs to be regulated, by hunting, as many other species do. Where do you think the money comes from to manage wildlife and habitat? It comes from hunters thru licenses, tags, arms, ammunition and other sporting good sales. It doesn't cost tofu eaters a dime. That you have a bleeding heart is only your problem.

Mark in Wyoming

You have conveyed what I could not put into words.
Well Spoken.
You appear to be a true outdoorsman and steward of one of our greatest resources. You have my respenct.

God but your an idiot.

Michael, You must write yourself some darn good prescriptions.

I'm Native American, I live in Washington State. I think it is fine to hunt with a gun. To be traditional we shouldn't have to get bows and arrows, that's rediculous. It's not like we have the ability anymore to make our own bows and arrows now. And what we're supposed to be dressed in buckskin and moccasins too? Hunting is hunting, and traditions are different for everyone. And these indians are giving this meat away, and if they get one for themselves its not for profit or that game of hunting it's for food! They will have limits I'm sure to how many they can kill per year as well.

Michael the Pharmacist

"Well, what will they do when they hunt that species to extinction? Hunt the white man? Oh wait, the democrats are already doing that. There's always whales."

That almost happened a bit over 100 years ago but not likely to happen again. The population of wild buffalo has gone from about 500 to about 20,000 and is no longer an endangered species. And commercial ranche population is about 500,000 with about 10% butchered for those who want a healthy steak, instead of that crap you get at McDonalds.

what does a political party have to do with this. It is about native rights, which the europeans took from them, destroying cultures and ways of life. All you bleeding hearts that do not understand the native way of life should not criticize. Be thankful that they did teach the "white man" how to survive and live in this country, only to be destroyed by them.

Montana won't miss you anyways!

You are funny. lol

I think it is for food, not just tradition alone.

Right, because natives are the ones who killed all the bison, are whaling unsustainably, etc. Your ignorance is showing.

The true equal hunt would be one on one, man and beast on foot UNARMED.

Agree. One on one.

Common Sense-2004266

"The true equal hunt would be one on one, man and beast on foot UNARMED."

Oh, you must mean like when you go to McDonalds for a burger or the grocery store for a steak. Is that the way you hunt? lol

Buffalo dont have thumbs - it would never work...

Hope I never see any of you in Texas Roadhoause mackin on a big Ole T-Bone....

Well, I don't freeload, I hate casinos and everything they stand for, I hate cigarettes (I don't smoke), I don't drink. Yet I am Native American. Dude open your eyes long enough to realize that all of us Natives aren't about that. Just as I know that all whites don't live in trailor parks and date their cousins.

Although I'd place money that they do wherever the above poster is from. Seems like pretty good odds.

Don't worry, these freeloading vermin(s) aren't going to take their continent back. We are still outnumbered. I have seen many Americans of every other ethnic group, "out of their mind drunk". Why does it p**s you off so bad that couple of Native Americans shoot a buffalo to eat? Would it be better if they just caped them out and hung the heads on the wall?

patooka, instead of commenting you should've just puked.

That 7.62 round is going to make the buffalo REALLY angry.

Just saying...

I'm Native American, I live in Washington State. I think it is fine to hunt with a gun. To be traditional we shouldn't have to get bows and arrows, that's rediculous. It's not like we have the ability anymore to make our own bows and arrows now. And what we're supposed to be dressed in buckskin and moccasins too? Hunting is hunting, and traditions are different for everyone. And these indians are giving this meat away, and if they get one for themselves its not for profit or that game of hunting it's for food! They will have limits I'm sure to how many they can kill per year as well.

It's not about thrill.

If it's not about thrill...then it's about 1 thing - you've killed a Bison. There's nothing much more to it.....it's 2011.

ellebee, it sounds like you've never eaten a good buffalo steak before, don't knock until you try it, they're very tasty and lean and healthy.

it's true ellebee, if you've never been charged by a buffalo before, I can see why you'd view them as 'innocent'. I agree with the above comment... buffalo is fantastic! I'm cool with a fun hunt as long as the meat isn't wasted and we're not unsustainably handing out too many permits per season. I'd much rather support hunting than the corn feed meat farms we get our beef from.

I would wager that the vast majority of you who think that the bison are innocent, sweet creatures who are completely defenseless have never been up close and personal with one. Bison are huge, truly massive animals and can be bad tempered and meaner than a two-headed rattlesnake if provoked, and sometimes even if they are not provoked.

As for bow or spear hunting versus rifle hunting, I would far rather see a bison, or deer, or elk, or any other game animal dropped cleanly with a rifle than to endure running, sometimes several hours, with one or more arrows or spears hanging off it. It's not only cruel to hunt that way when we have better and far more humane methods, it's stupid.

If an animal is not killed cleanly and runs for more than a few moments, the entire purpose of the hunt is gone by the wayside because the meat will not be usable. That means an animal will die for no good reason. We indians don't operate that way. We take what we need, and use what we take.

Last, but FAR from least, if the animal population is not controlled to correspond with the resources of the area on which they live, the animals are inevitably decimated by disease and starvation. That's obviously far better for them than a clean kill by someone who will use virtually every part of the animal they take, isn't it?

But you can't eat a camera' Indians don't just eat Buffalo,they use everything from it for cerimonial items etc. I've slept with a Buffalo Robe and there's nothing warmer. In case you are'nt aware,Whites,Blacks,any color Montanan can put in for a Buffalo tag. And you don't have to be a MAN'

I all cool whitht he Bison Hunt, but if your just going out with a rifle and shooting it, It is not a Ritual Hunt.

There was a lot involved in Native American Hunting, they did it as a group, the selected the target the worked cooperativiely. It took skill to take down Bison with the weapons they had at hand. And I understand they made quite a celebration of a good kill... lots of stuff for a recognition of the past.. But two guys with a gun and a scope, thats just hunting...

Reliant

"But two guys with a gun and a scope, thats just hunting..."

That isnt really hunting either - unless you drive out from the city to a nice spot someone told you about. Real hunting is work - if not, then it isnt hunting.

Do you thank a cow every time you eat beef? Do you use the whole cow and give much of it away to the needy of your tribe? Read the whole article. The rituals and traditions aren't just the killing of the bison. I suppose now you want to stop the sweat lodge tradition. It must be the vengeful savage in me that is laughing at all these posts because no matter what anyone here says can stop the Dine from this hunt.

@ Retired RN

I agree whole heartedly with most of your post. I see no problem with this hunt (I am a hunter myself) and I see no problem with using a rifle to do it.

I do think you are mis-informed about hunting with a bow and spreading false information on a forum like this gives people who might not experience hunting themselves the wrong impression.

First...a clean shot with a single arrow can and will take down a game animal (even a buffalo) I have not hunted buffalo but I can tell you that the arrow can pass clean through Elk and deer. Lung OR Heart shots will bring an animal down quickly.

Second...you say an animal that runs for more than a few moments will ruin the meat. Again...just not true. The proper handling of the meat after the kill is what makes the difference between good or bad tasting meat. If an animal runs to far and is not found quickly enough to start the butchering process can ruin the meat however since you need to cool the meat quickly before spoiling occurs.

I guarantee the cows being herded thru commercial processing plants have plenty of adrenaline coursing through their veins before the slaughter and it doesn't hurt your hamburger.

Sigh. Well, if you want to talk REAL truth of the matter, you'd be talking about replacing all cattle with bison... better for consumption AND the local ecology (GASP). Some people would simply rather decry natives hunting for some sense of culture while eating a quarter pounder that is more destructive to themselves and the environment. Who is primitive now? Hmmm...

I'm a Nam Vet '67-'68 and ashamed that you are so misguided. Which one was feeding it carrots? Don't ever go deer or turkey hunting in Texas unless you have a feeder that sprays corn with regularity. It's even called deer corn.

Ohio doesn't allow deer feeders, but the hunters do very well without them. There are so many deer the park rangers cull herds to ease starvation. Talk about fish in a barrel - I know TX does allow that.