The democrats, union rank and file and other spoiled children have tantrums and go home

They need to STAY there PLENTY of conservatives and non union labor need the work

This PROVES we need a LOT MORE CONSERVATIVES in 2012 so government can FIX ITSELF

The 2012 campaign has just begun. There is not an issue that shows more difference in the Democrats and the Republicans then this one. You are either for the Teachers, Fire Fighters, Police Officers, and Nurses or you vote Republican. These people are not millionaires, they are working people. If you think the Unions are doing to much for the blue collar people of America, then you don't know any of them or live next door to any of them. I am not in a Union, but I believe if you want to be in one, you should be.

How typical. The union rabble rages on all while ignoring the impending debt crisis. After all, what does it matter to them as long as they can continue to rape the taxpayers?

Perhaps this highly irrational behavior is fueled by some perception that Obama will come to Wisconsin’s aid and bail them out. Isn’t that primarily what Obama’s bailouts were for? Bailing out unions? And why not, since the unions are his most loyal voting base.

The tide is turning.

WinkWink thinks the Wisconsin is in the right track with the proposed changes. Some must suffer for the good of the many.

The democrats are MOST UPSET about LOSING the automatic union member payroll deduction because that stops TAXPAYER CASH from being transferred STRAIGHT to their reelection campaigns

Why isn't Eric Holder prosecuting democrats for illegaly diverting taxpayer funds for personal benefit?

unity, I am a longtime educator and I must tell you I think you are mistaken. It's NOT about the teachers, it's about students getting a good education which is not possible when their teachers are out of school with glazed eyes and their mouths open, hollering (I've seen the pictures) instead of being in class doing their job. It's also about the money. It just isn't there.

So the Democrats escaped to Illinois. Had to have a meeting with their Mob, oops I mean Union, bosses, sorry slipped again, I mean campaign donation coordinators.

I must be politically correct - I must be politically correct - I must be politically correct

I really admire (not) the conscientious Democrats elected to support and represent their constituents by fleeing the first time they're called upon to support and represent the very people who voted for them. Were I a union member I would be livid because of their mass desertion, fearing that they may be required to do the job they sought and for which they were elected.

I thought the Republican party said they listen to the will of the people before they pass laws. Why are they not listening to the will of the people now that the people are against them? Sounds like the republicans are once again on the side of big business and they have no desire to protect the worker, the little guy, that makes this country work. If you loose all the little cogs in the machine then the whole machine fails. We can not have 80% of the wealth in the hands of only 3% of the people, the other 97% are going to revolt and if you thought what you saw in Egypt, where they have a population of only 80 million people was bad, wait until you see what happens in America, where we have more than 300 million people. The republican party and big business needs to be held in check before they destroy the middle class.

Republicans go ahead and pass the bill but don't expect to have school this year or any other year either as a matter of fact you may not see any tax revenue in WI if you keep this up.

WI citizens can stop their relationship with their current government and began to redirect their tax dollars to a more people centric government.

F- the Republicans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And their way of life!!!

Their ways have destroyed this planet and now gas is turning up in peoples water, mirroring the fact that the Republicans' toxic behavior is poisoning this planet and those who inhabit it.

This is all about demonizing workers at the same time you pad the wallets of the wealthiest people. Wisconsin needed these cuts because they gave tax breaks to the top. And this union busting bill is all about politics and making it harder for workers to earn living wages. This is about the gaping wealth gap in this country that has grown exponentially in the last 30 years. Good for those senators that are taking drastic action protecting workers. Shame on republicans for abandoning the middle class. Power to the people!

@Wet Willy- WI began the year with a budget surplus of 122 million. Walker then gave away 137 million for in tax cuts to corporations. Now, suddenly we have a "budget crisis". And, guess who gets to pick up the tab for the corporate tax giveaways... the public employees. The only one, "raping" the taxpayers as you say, is Scott Walker. The teachers aren't protesting because of the money. They just agreed to a big cut in June and are willing to do it again. At issue is their right to collective bargaining, which Scott Walker has yet to explain to us how that will fix the budget. That "union rabble" you speak of are neighbors, friends, family and teachers of my children. Good, honest, hard working folk, which are abundant in WI, by the way. Who are exercising their democratic rights to stand up for themselves and that which they believe in.

This is about the people who will have their pensions and healthcare affected because this governor came into office and gave his big business pals tax breaks so now he has to take money from the little people that did not vote for him in order to pay for his tax breaks. He is taking from the poor and giving it to the wealthy big business, 140 million in tax breaks to multi-millionaire businesses, seriously? Talk about a reverse Robin Hood.

Yeah you guys have missed the point. This isn't about the money, it's about the unions ability to do what unions do, get a bunch of people together to negotiate with an entity that is large enough to ignore individual employees.

This is an absolutely terrible precedent. How long after this before more states join in and then companies?

The anti-union crowd doesn't realize how they are slitting their own throats. Even companies that aren't unionized will try to meet union standards for pay and benefits lest they become unionized. Take this away and it's downhill from here.

When the Democrates rushed a bill because they over powered the Republicans last year, the Republicans cried foul. Now they are doing the same thing, and call it democracy. What a farce! You can't have it both ways. The one term Republicans just put the nail in their coffin. I can guarantee the moderate voting public will be out in force in 2012 to get rid of the extremist Right. Bye bye Repugs!!!

Here's an idea: Maybe the governor should get rid of the unionized employees and hire illegals who will do the work for less. The repubs can cruise Home Depot parking lots looking to hire the day laborers for a few bucks. Of course the money saved will be spent on unemployment but gotta break a few eggs if you want to make an omelet!

If you cut one public service employee, you must cut them all, including the police, fire department. Mr. Scott Walker is a complete "failed". I suggest a complete protest of all teachers, etc. All Wisconsin teachers and workers should descend upon the capitol of Wisconsin. If the Republicans want protests they should have it.

Without unions only the Corporate America will have a hand at electing from now on, as they have been given the right to act as single person contributors.

Get a grip Wisconsin, cut back where you can. First with the salary of your Governor, and the health care for all. They make enough they can pay out of pocket.

Hello, Wisconsin, citizens wake up before you lose out.

This vote is not about taxes or deficits or budgets or Madison form NY's delusions about payroll deductions going directly to Democrats. It's about taking away a union's right to collectively bargain. Republicans who scream about made-up fantasies that are stripping them of their rights appear just fine with this. As always, if it doesn't directly affect a Republican, it must be wasteful.

The Koch brothers would be proud of all of you -- if, that is, they actually gave a rat's ass about any of you.

You people would like to demonize the Republicans, but obviously, it's not working out too well. You can cry, scream, and whine all you want. Your leaders can run and hide. It's not going to work. They don't have the money, and it's going on all over the country.

You can try to blame it on the Republicans, but it's both parties. They have all been blowing cash like it's going out of style. The taxpayer can no longer afford their own retirement, much less yours. Meanwhile, our leaders offer no solutions other than to steal the money from someone else (who didn't vote for me). We, the taxpayers are sick of it. We are putting you on a budget and if you run out of money, too bad. If you can't make it, privatize it. But quit sticking us with the tab for your wasteful habit.

Big Daddy Trumpka is getting desperate asking to the President to support his revolt against Wisconsin Governor, who is doing what he promises to do when he was elected. President Obama in his campaign tour, promise to turn the country purple in reference to the SEIU’s ( international Union) color. We know Obama is not pro business, he is pro –union community organizer his attitude of pacifier is gone. He feel attacked and the must support to the people that put him in the White House, and battle “the enemy”, when Wisconsin Governor is doing an effort to straight his state economy.

Liberals want to compare the Wisconsin state union employees with the uprising in the Middle East against dictators. However this is more like the turmoil in Greece where the country was going to collapse for the increasing debt and bad economy, and people rioting in the streets asking for more.

From Financial Times Europe Feb 18

“Greece suffered renewed turmoil on Wednesday as protesters took to the streets to demonstrate against severe budget cuts, while a leading credit ratings agency threatened to downgrade the country’s long-term rating to near-junk status.”

I don't see how anybody can bitch about the Democrats helping these people. This filthy governor took the state's surplus and gave it to three large corporations who had given him campaign money to win the election. Who the hell does he think he is? Now they do have a deficit. He's filthy and this has nothing to do with the state's money issues, it's all about politics and breaking the backs of the unions and middle class. This filthy governor caused this deficit paying off his filthy rich backers and the intent is to break the backs of the middle class as usual. Dirty, dirty politics and dirty, dirty REpublicans and their rich friends.



mel2877

I thought the Republican party said they listen to the will of the people before they pass laws. Why are they not listening to the will of the people now that the people are against them? Sounds like the republicans are once again on the side of big business

They are listening to the will of the people instead of cowering and bowing down to a very vocal minority. The people are the taxpayers and they are not against them...they in fact, voted them in to do just this.

Big business? Since when do public sector employees, paid by the taxpayers, work for big business?

If you gave back all the "breaks" and money "given away" to friends as said above, the net would be approzimately a flat bank account. Where does the 3.6 BILLION deficit come into play?

As an out-of-stater, I would like to hear the entire story from both sides before coming to the defense of either side.

What is so amazing is how many people posting on here know so very little about what is going on, but appear like they are experts. You watch the national news and all of a sudden you become the most informed person in the world. There are conflicting reports on what was left in the budget for the new govenor to deal with. If you read these boards, liberals would have you believe there were billions left to hand out to anyone the governor wanted to.

What the governor did was to give tax breaks to corporations in order to draw them into the state... Gee, I wonder why he would do that... from the liberal perspective it's because he is a corporate goon. That's the typical loony liberal response. What the governor did was practice GOOD BUSINESS. His hope is to draw businesses into the state so people can have JOBS!!! Liberalism - a complete disease of the mind effecting common sense and logic.

Screw the unions. They drive up the cost of automobiles, appliances, and government just the same. Unions are still run by thugs and I wouldn't work anywhere where unions are involved. To me they are corrupt, useless entities that rob from the membership and cost me more money in buying goods.

Why are they not listening to the will of the people now that the people are against them?

LOL, seriously? The "people" aren't against them. A small amount of people, relative to the whole, are against them because they want to continue to exploit the tax payer.

IF obama was a GOOD POTUS like REAGAN he would threaten to FIRE these teachers if they are not ON-DUTY come MONDAY morning.

obama is a coward, so of course he WONT!

SO, therefore, SCOTT WALKER should fire these protesters(if they aren't on job on the Feb 21) and open those positions FOR HIRE!

a lady with a MASTERS degree called in today and said she would move an take an average $89,000 a year teachers job, and she would actually CARE for the kids, NOT THE UNION!

DEMS, this making you guys look even more worthless and bad!

Senators willfully disobeying law to evade a vote? Sounds like job abandonment to me. Does the governor legally have the option of replacing them until a special election can be called?

Since they fled across state lines, will the federal government do it's duty and require they return?

Funny thing Tank, the Media has been saying the WI started the year with a 3.7 Billion dollar defecit, which will go to 4 Billion if something isn't done. Who is right, you or the Media?

BTW, I don't know who is acting more juvenile, the kids or the adults. I wonder if these folks are the same folks who thinks the US govt. has a never ending source of money, so spend all you want! WE DESERVE IT! (sarcasm)

This is a sad day for WI, I hope Ohio gets the bill through soon. We need the bill passed just as much, if not more than WI.

Also, doesn't Union membership only represent, what 13% of the total workforce, or is it 8%? Either way, just because a bunch of people showed up at the State House doesn't mean Jack, when the vast majority, (and those paying these folks wages) are not with them. Don't forget that same majority who are being screwed at Tax Time due to the payment of bloated Public Employee paychecks.

willowbrook...You've been posting some good comments on this topic.

I just saw a striking teacher on TV, screaming at the top of her lungs;

" We are doing this for your children....If we don't do this, your children won't know what an 8 hour workday is......Is that what you want ???"

If the teacher actually believes that, she is a brainwashed dolt and shouldn't be teaching anyones child.

mike in delray,

good point, i share your concern.

maybe teachers should not be allowed to be progressives or liberals, that would be pretty cool. America would be better off!

Pure unadulterated COWARDICE on the part of the Senate Dems!!! I realize this is a strategy- but voters remember this kind of crap!! This is pure chicken S*** and they know it!!!

From what I am hearing- either the unions compromise on this or up 5000 will be laid off, just to break even!! What the Governor should do is go to the front and count the first 5000 protesters and tell them: "You 5000 are fired- problem solved! Now get back to work!"

OR- pull a Reagan- fire them all, put out the word to a nation seeing 9.4% unemployment (18% is more realistic...), and see if they won't fill the positions in less than a week!! Bust 'em Scott!

I find it interesting that the DNC is busing in protesters from other areas to aid in the picketing, yelling, etc. Is the President associated with DNC in a leadership capacity of some sort?

I hope not for if he is, well, does that mean he is aliening himself with this situation rather than let the individual state handle its business? Wow, that 's how the Civil War began - States Rights.

Mike - I agree totally with your post. Funny thing, most Teachers do not work an 8 hour day. Let alone, you wouldn't believe what the kids coming out of High School in the last decade think they should do/receive when they get their first job. Most do not have a clue about what it takes to be a productive employee in a manufacturing environment.

Oh, and they are definitely NOT doing it for the Children. They are in it for themselves ($$$) and that is exactly what they are teaching their students. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Before the naysayers start running their mouths, my first career was as a Teacher. (Non Union in a State where Union membership was not mandatory.) Now I work in business, and these Teachers have NO CLUE what it takes to keep a business profitable, let alone what it takes for a State to balance it budget. They need to step aside and let the professionals who actually care about their State take care of business.

(Sorry, I do get going on this, it has been such a negative subject in my community.)

Proud -

Those tax cuts do not take place until fiscal 2012. That drop from surplus to deficit is actually higher unemployment, and people/business leaving the state with what money they have left.

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110201/APC0101/102010421/Wisconsin-Governor-Scott-Walker-signs-tax-cut-bill-into-law

It's amazing what one can find out, when the check the facts.

nwnative:"I don't see how anybody can bitch about the Democrats helping these people. This filthy governor took the state's surplus and gave it to three large corporations who had given him campaign money to win the election. Who the hell does he think he is? Now they do have a deficit."

Really????? What surplus!!!!????? Where are you getting your "facts"?? There hasn't been a surplus in years in Wisconsin! True- he did give breaks to some corporations to try and drum up job creation!! But to say that the Governor spent Wisconsin into a deficit is just plan wrong.

I was told by republicans that the reason CEOs, CFOs, and the like were getting these HUGE bonuses was because it was in thier contract and they had every right to it. Now, I am being told that contracts don't matter when it comes down to middle class workers and they should suck it up and move on. Now, just where does this sucking it up and moving on end? Let's see, it doesn't, if you take away thier right to collectively negotiate contracts.

Much like I was told over and over again by republicans that the deficit didn't matter when Bush was racking it up, because, well, we have an illegitimate war to support. But, all of a sudden, it matters when a democrat takes the presidency.

In summary, the big business companies can keep thier contracts, but middle class workers don't need one. Yeah, thats fair and balanced... right.

safecracker..(#1.46)..Obama is the Head of the DNC, He is the Leader of the Democratic Party....all this is being done with his blessing. Also his "Organizing for America" political action organization is up to its eyeballs in this. Whatever ACORN calls itself now will be there too, I'm certain...... Obama is calling in the National Labor Unions...AFL-CIO, SEIU, etc.

He has drawn a line in the sand. No one can have any remaining doubt where his loyalties lie......with the unions and not with the rest of the citizens of the country.

It's all a Community Organizer knows how to do.

While waiting for the plane, I saw a news brief on the tele, with some union leader spouting BSBSBSBSBS to the crowd, reving up the troops to do whatever in the interests of the union. Next, some union guy was on FOX, yelling "Fox lies, Fox lies" even to the reporter who asked him a question. Was this one of those teachers from the union, or a public sector union worker ? Gosh, that goodness my children didn't attend this school, for I would have been in debt sending them to private school.

Well, how can this leader of the administration make any valid statement about WI when his team, the DNC, is busing in opposition in favor of the unions? Extortion is alive and well in the US.......and a number on this site are going ape against the GOP for this when it seems the DNC is going all out to create more polarization in the country.

Oh, well, only another 16 hours on the plane until home.......have a great weekend folks, I will be traveling - salary and no overtime unionists!

I hate to say it, but that's what they get for putting Republcians in charge -- ROBBED.

I see no need for Republican Voters to smile, it'll be their 401Ks and IRAs next to fall victim to overspending Republicans.

The Washington Post is reporting that Walker and the Republicans now in office in now are the ones who overspent, and had Republicans not spent too much there would be a surplus.

Republicans are ALWAYS out to rob somebody, today it's the unions and hopefully before the next election Republican politicans will have robbed their followers too.

RECALL ELECTION! THROW THE REPUBLICAN BUMS OUT !!!

As many as 25,000 students, teachers and prison guards have turned out at the Capitol this week to protest....

What the author of this article failed to mention was the number of DNC, Obama Community Oraganizing groups, and other groups getting taxpayer dollars were at this rally. Great, taxpayer dollars going to groups to protest a State's attempt to balance their budget. That sounds just like the AG (taxpayer dollars) suing the State of Arizona, or the AG (taxpayer dollars) continuing to pursure termination of States challenges to the unconstitutional Mandated Universal Health Care legislation.

It makes me sick when I see videos of teachers instructing students on what to do at this rally. And the teachers let them out of school to attend the rally, even though a lot of them didn't even know what the rally was about.

This is JUST PLAIN SICK.

I have yet read anywhere that the budget cuts involves taking out Wisc contract handouts and corporate loopholes. Those 2 alone would cover the suggested cuts to public servants. In addition, I am curious, why the Wisc political servants have not even brought up teh same amount of cuts in their salary and benefits.

So it is okay that the other do it, but it doesn't pertain to themselves. TYPICAL POLITICAL RHETORIC and GRAND STANDING. Amazing attempt by Gov Walker with the divid & conqueror with Public Unions...

Obama is calling in the National Labor Unions...AFL-CIO, SEIU, etc.

Obama calling out the troops, eh? You are being nieve to think that way. They hear the call without his voice. They've shown up plenty of times without his permission, lol.

I'm getting the impression that when the call on healthcare providers went out to slander legislation and protest full force that, what was aimed at reforming and regulating thier industry was just fine, why, they were trying to kill grandma, mercy! But the call for unions to gather thier forces and protest an attack on legal contracts agreed upon by workers and thier employer is using cry-baby tactics?

I'm all for your opinions, but stick to them. What's good for the goose... and all.

Politics is a double-edged sword.

Do republicans really think liberals are ruining America now? Seriously The United States has been headed for this for 40+ years.REAGAN ERA Every time a Democrat gets the budget under control IE Clinton. We get forgetful and vote in another republican.

Then the huge military spending starts and we go broke due to handouts and corporate theft. Stop letting these idiots run for office they buy there way in.

Guess Walker is all about the CHEESE!! for his buddies. At individual Rights of the Blue collar worker. Unfortunately most republicans stopped education on U.S. history. At the 8th grade level. God forbid they listen to that hippie liberal college professor.

Cheese and TEA !! LOL

Mike in Delray

safecracker..(#1.46)..Obama is the Head of the DNC

==========================

No he's not. Neither was bush the head of the RNC when he was President.

Are you related to madisinfromny? She can't tell the truth either. Or is spewing lies and hatred just a con thing?

Some interesting numbers here.

Total population of Wisconsin: 5,655,000

Number of those that paid income tax in 2009: 2,052,000

Maybe we should ask the 35% of Cheeseheads that actually have to pay for this mess what they think.

if u think unions are bad just wait until until the corporate floodgates open and their is nothing left to stand in their way.

Whats a pension?!

On a serious note it's time for the public sector to come down to reality with the rest of the working class. This isn't the 1920's where worker's rights were up in the air. There's a common knowledge standard that workers have rights. Unions are antiquated and driving our country into even deeper debt... be gone with them.

I think its amazing that people are making this about republican and democrat. I'm sure the union members in the streets of Wisconsin are republican, democrat, tea-party, and independent.

This isn't about party, this is about the peoples right to have a voice in the work place. If the government can can kill it, only because they people work in the public sector, I wonder what corporations can do to it in the private sector?

If I understand correctly the issue is the bill's removal of bargaining rights. They have agreed to the increase in pension and healthcare personal costs. There's not enough information as to the result of the bargaining rights removal. Could such an issue be up for renegotiation once the budget is balanced?

As to Americans shooting themselves in the foot, most of the state's budgetary shortfalls are due to onerous pension plans which happened due to either gross neglect or allowing union bargaining to push the limits on what the states can afford to pay.

It will be interesting to watch what happens should the tea party enter the fray, hopefully cooler minds will prevail and no one will get hurt. I don't approve of what the protestors are doing at present, not because they shouldn't be heard but because it has created an opportunity for the professional rabble rousers (Sharpton, Jackson, Trumpka) to come in and manipulate something that really isn't up to them to decide. Their usual MO is to demand that the downtrodden (union workers making more than the private sector but paid by the taxes from the private sector) demand that their demands be met regardless of whether or not there's any money to pay for said demands, disrupt business and punish an entire state by their actions.

I have never understood the need for government unions.

It is the government that makes all the fairness rules, fair or not.

I am fortunate to be able to visit unionized manufacturing facilities. Let me tell you, the waste is horrendous. People sleeping in locker rooms, people carrying O2 cylinders behind them, I was hard pressed to find anyone actually working.

If these teachers feel they are doing their part in educating our children, then they are not picketing. The ones that are picketing are the teachers who want an annual salary for working only 75% of the year. Then expect the 35% of the people paying taxes to fund their retirements.

Two years ago when things started to get bad, I went to my boss and asked if there was anything I could do to help the company. Like buy fuel for my service truck, seeing that we have to have them at home with us.

I am expected to provide for my family, and my retirement. Now I am expected to pay more taxes to provide for teachers their retirement as well.

Come on people does this seem a little ODD to anyone? Taxpayers working year round to pay full salaries to someone who only works 9months a year, and gets tenured after so many years ( cannot be fired ) and can retire with full benefits after 25 or 30 years??????????????

garcher-1253370

"I am fortunate to be able to visit unionized manufacturing facilities. Let me tell you, the waste is horrendous. People sleeping in locker rooms, people carrying O2 cylinders behind them, I was hard pressed to find anyone actually working."

You are a liar and I can smell your BS from here.

As a business owner, making a payroll, cutting expenses to deal with the economic down turn, analyzing my costs, identifying bottlenecks, getting lean, getting mean, all of which included cutting staff, payroll, and benefits just to survive, I applaud your straight forward comment.

I still paid taxes during the past 3 years of the worst economic conditions since the Great Recession. I'm luckier than most, but it hurt. It took moxy, creativity, flexibility, and a lot of personal disappointment. That disappointment came from the employees impacted. There are now less employees and less compensation and less benefits. Those facts of business had to happen or we would not be in existance now.

It truly hurt my heart to cut people and benefits. We, the small non-union employers, care about the people that work for us and their families. When they work for us, they are like family to us.

I wish one of these protesters could spend just a couple of days within that type of environment. It would change their lives. It would truly be about the work, the product, the customer. It would be about the family of workers they are a part of every day. It is a labor of love in small business. Those employees show up with passion that cannot be measured. I cannot begin to describe my respect for them regardless of education or payrate.

When it gets tough, they show up. They do not scream they were wronged or run across state lines to hide from the obvious result. They face it and then get to work to do their best to take the highest path possible to do what is right. Over the years, I have learned these life lessons from those that have worked for me.

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing those qualities portrayed by the protesters or senators of the State of Wisconsin.

Ido, This is exactly what my Union did during the 08 nominations. Here in Chicago the Unions were behind Hillary Clinton. They held a rally at Soldier Field and made a manditory presense of all apprentice's to attend. Telling them that it was in thier best interest to be there. In other words,"don't bother calling us for a job if you get laid off"! The members were told to meet at set location and then took by buses to the rally and of course issued a Union for Clinton Pres. T-shirt. There was a head count and names of the participants recorded. The whole thing was staged for the press. The Unions were "balls out" for Hillary until it was clear,and not a second before,that Obama won the Democrat Nomination. You often wonder why Obama would be so pro union after being picked second fiddle? The fact is that us union tradesmen,or tradespeople, knew 5 yrs. ago that the economy was tanking. Our company worked for big construction companies. These companies usually had work"on the books" 2 to 4 yrs. in advance. When the word was ,"we've got a pretty full schedule next year and we're bidding on alot of jobs for the next"? I started telling my crew, we got to really kick it in gear,do not take days off,and save your money! My point is that the union insisted that vulnerable members(apprentices) take a day off during the busiest work season for a candidate that lost by a longshot! Then the union picked up the flag of the previously discounted longshot( Barrack Obama) as if they were in his camp all along! Not sure what happened to all the Hillary for President 08 shirts? Maybe they're used as rags to wash & wax the business agents Cadillac SUV's. The union didn't care about the apprentices lost wages that day,only Lord knows they could sure use that money right now because there is no work. What are the unions doing for these apprentices now? What are their options? After all they showed up at the rally,they sure as hell voted for Obama because you alluded that the Olympics was in the bag for Chicago if ol'boy gets in. What is the union telling these people now, that they are basically a,"one night stand" What is going on in Madison Wisconsin has all the earmarks of a Abbie Hoffman wet dream,it cannot sustain itself without a host. These union "victims" are gov't employees,they're work ethics does not apply as ours. They cannot get fired if they do not produce. They exist off tax $$ and want more. Last year the unions in Chicago have taken a 20% decrease in wages for residential work ( single family homes,condos,townhomes,rentals) with no media coverage. I guess we're to humble to say that it was an effort to keep the economy rolling. Unlike that gov't payroll bitch that screamed,"It's for the children"! At least have the guts to say it's for me!

Unions are a total waste of time and money today. I say get rid of them all! They are nothing but leaches preying on the hard work of good Americans.

Come to think of it, we do not need to do a thing. The unions are slitting their own throats by negotiating unsustainable pension programs that will ultimately be the root cause of their own failures.

As far as WI is concerned, when you don't have the money, you don't have the money. I guess it's time to either negotiate a reasonable salary and benefits with the unions, or start trucking in new teachers. I suggest trucking in some new teachers.

This is just the beginning. 46 out of the 50 States are still spending more then they are taking in. There is no way the States can honor their current pension programs. Civil unrest is right around the corner folks.

I'm not sure about other business owners out there (Small $25M to Medium $500M) but I don't like paying the high union wages & especially benefit costs but I can't complain about their quality of work. My general contractors/clients love them and all I get from untrained, non-union projects on my separate entity are headaches, with the exception of a few.

Any other experiences???

Garcher is right, Union plants are lazier than non-Union plants. I have traveled to both for a previous position I held. The Union plants had tons of rules that kept them from doing their job. One of my favorite was they got 5 minutes before each break to go to the rest room and wash their hands. (Didn't matter that their hands weren't dirty.) So there was an extra 15 minutes lost each day. As soon as that 5 minute window popped up, all work ceased. They also ignored customers during that 5 minutes as well, despite the fact that their schedule didn't include that 5 minute window. Union membership is an excuse to do less and cost the company money. I've heard stories of busting Unions and always the end result was a company that stopped losing money. I'm glad there is a move to end Union abuse of employers. We need companies that can compete in the global market and State and Federal govt.s that can balance their budgets.

Tea Parties: keep your bags packed, because here in N.J. Gov Christie is prepared to gut the unions here also. The unions are using the lame stream media to attack the Gov. CHARTER SCHOOLS!

the divide and conquer Repubelican strategy won't work here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Things are gearing up here in Michigan as well. Since they can't ship these jobs off to China, let's go after the pensions they've worked many years for. This guy Walker will be doing exactly that next election.

Funny thing is when government jobs are cut, members of the union think they would get their jobs back by voting the tea party people out of office. How can those jobs be filled when there isn't any money to pay for them? The fact of the matter is they won't get their jobs back no matter which party is in office.

I would expect even deeper job loses with local governments in the near future because they WILL ballance their budgets where the feds won't. The States will have to revamp their pension plans since they are not sustainable.

Frankly, the unions are weaker now then ever. They actually shrank in size since year 2000. The unions don't have enough money either. In many cases, the unions are below 65% vested in their pension programs. If the Feds don't bail them out, then many of the union members will realize their pensions won't be there when they retire. Then how would the union members view their own unions?

IF those teachers that selfishly abandoned their KIDS are not on duty Monday February the 21st, then we need to do what TRUMP or REAGAN did and FIRE their GREEDY selfs.

FURTHER, if those DEMOCRAT politicians that ABANDONED their constituents are not on duty MONDAY morning, hold a special election to find replacements for their GREEDY CRYBABY derelict selfs.

I suggest that everyone who says that there is or was a surplus in WI. budget go to this web page

politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/rachel-maddow/rachel-maddow-says-wisconsin-track-have-budget-sur/

This should scare the living day lights out of everyone. The Koch Brothers are behind this. Two brothers who have never had to worry one moment of their greedy lives about paying the bills like the rest of us. They are predators and it is their practice to stomp on the middle class. This governor owes these people big time and he's determined to deliver. I am so sick of the Republicans spouting their vicious crap about doing what the American people want. Anyone who wants to take more and more power away from the workers of this country are to be feared.

The Koch brothers are two spoiled A$$es who had their wealth handed to them. All of the Republicans are in their pockets. The Kochs own oil refineries in three states, Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia Pacific Lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra smong other products. They are one of the top ten polluters in this country and now the Repulican House is trying to do away with any kind of regulations affecting these companies. They believe in minimal social services for the needy and like I said want no environmental regulation. They are good at lawbreaking and political manipulation. They sponsored the summit in Texas which was basically a training session for the Tea Party. This is big oil billionaires trying to take total control of the American workers. Is this who we want calling the shots?

nwnative

This is big oil billionaires trying to take total control of the American workers. Is this who we want calling the shots?

I bet you even think capitalism is bad right?

Imagine the uproar if the Governor was asking them to have the same wage scale, retirement, and health care set up that we normal people have.

I see the collapsers are still out in full force. This thread was uncollapsed once, and now it is collapsed again. Collapsing will not hide the truth. It is time to deal with the imbalances in pay in our country. Union wages and benefits are now number one since the artificial increase in wages and benefits have been instrumental in knocking us out of the global market and is over-taxing State and Federal budgets. I'm sure the greedy think they are entitled to their bloated wages and bennies and cannot possibly live with less. Well, let me tell you, YOU ARE WRONG! Those of us in the private, non-union majority of the United States have done just that and we are still kicking. I find it incredibly offensive that I've lost 16.5% of my pay since 2006, yet I am still responsible for paying taxes to pay for these Union wages that have taken no cuts. As far as I'm concerned, you take the 16.5% cut and then come back and talk to me. Wait, that's not enough, considering your pay is 30% higher than mine for the same education and experience. 46.5% would only be fair. That's what the rest of us need to see, a REAL reduction in pay and benefits to these folks. I'm sure all you Union folk think I'm being sarcastic, but look at the %'s again. That is the difference between the normal folks and those who have a Union that is abusing their employer. Is that what you want to be known for? (I wouldn't.) All you have to do is look at GM and the truth is right in front of your face.

Fitzgerald said Republicans have the votes needed to pass the so-called "budget repair" bill just as soon as 14 Senate Democrats who fled the state on Thursday and remain in hiding return to the Statehouse. Without them, there isn't the required quorum to vote on legislation.

The missing Democrats have threatened to stay away for weeks and remain more resolved than ever to stay away "as long as it takes" until Walker agrees to negotiate, Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said Saturday.

What, are the democrat’s children or adults? Cut and run? They seem to forget, they work for ALL the people! They should all be fired too! I have to contribute to my healthcare and also to my 401k, so why don’t state workers? They are bankrupting states!

Doctors from numerous hospitals set up a station near the Capitol to provide notes covering public employees' absences. Family physician Lou Sanner, 59, of Madison, said he had given out hundreds of notes. Many of the people he spoke with seemed to be suffering from stress, he said.

FRAUDULENT NOTES!! These doctors are violating ETHICS! They don’t even KNOW these “patients” and have NO medical records on them. The state employees need to be fired and the doctors need to have their licenses revoked!

Rest assured, regardless of what happens, the schools will remain open because the teachers genuinely care about the children. They've said so many times.

nwnative...This should scare the living day lights out of everyone. The Koch Brothers are behind this. Two brothers who have never had to worry one moment of their greedy lives about paying the bills like the rest of us. They are predators and it is their practice to stomp on the middle class. This governor owes these people big time and he's determined to deliver. I am so sick of the Republicans spouting their vicious crap about doing what the American people want. Anyone who wants to take more and more power away from the workers of this country are to be feared.

The Koch brothers are two spoiled A$$es who had their wealth handed to them. All of the Republicans are in their pockets. The Kochs own oil refineries in three states, Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia Pacific Lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra smong other products. They are one of the top ten polluters in this country and now the Repulican House is trying to do away with any kind of regulations affecting these companies. They believe in minimal social services for the needy and like I said want no environmental regulation. They are good at lawbreaking and political manipulation. They sponsored the summit in Texas which was basically a training session for the Tea Party. This is big oil billionaires trying to take total control of the American workers. Is this who we want calling the shots?

Gee nwnative,

You sound a little jealous there buddy…perhaps even a little delusional or paranoid? Did you take your meds today? You know, you can boycott them and refuse to buy their products if you feel so strongly?

The same could be said of George Soros so why aren’t you blasting him? You know, the man BEHIND your messiah? The puppet master calling the shots and destroying the economy here like he already did in Europe.

nwnative:

This is big oil billionaires trying to take total control of the American workers. Is this who we want calling the shots?

It is? Because I was unaware of all the oil wells the State of Wisconsin owns and staffs.

joeyfromcali,

You were already told to take care of your Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California so all us US Taxpayers do not have to bail your uninformed arses out (also known as Illegal Collective Punishment of all US Taxpayers). Over $10 Billion USDs spent each year on Illegal Aliens Public Assistance of the $85 Billion USDs yearly California Budget. (this over $10 Billion USDs does not include "Food Stamps", WIC, Public Housing, Medical, etc.).

Clinton you believe that baloney (propaganda) from a Politician that said "I did not have sex with that woman" (his sperm on her blue dress).

Clinton's Budget Surplus (stated as Political Motive) did not reflect anything as the Interest on the National Debt Does.

Clinton's Interest on the National Debt (Real Indicator of US Economy): $18.9 Billion

Bush's Interest on the National Debt: $16.6 Billion

If you do not understand what this means go to your local bank or financial institution and ask what interest means. You seem not to understand the concept since you keep repeating the same uninformed baloney repeatedly all over Newsvine.

As to the Wars:

Iraq: President Clinton's 1998 Declaration of War With Iraq as demanded by his 1998 State of the Union Address, to gain approval from US Congress to conform to the 1973 War Powers Resolution. First US Military Action under the President Clinton Declaration of War With Iraq, "Operation Desert Fox", 1998. President Clinton's Declaration of War With Iraq is known as the Overthrow Law as: "Overthrow the Iraqis President and the Iraqis Government to Liberate the Iraqis People", also known as Operation Iraqis Freedom (1998-2011).

Iraq is a UN Mission, Nation Building.

Afghanistan: 1980s During the USSR 40th Army Occupation, Senator Charles Wilson Democrat Texas (more balls than you got) visits the Afghan Refugees at Pakistan, demands US involvement.

Afghanistan is a UN Mission, Nation Building.

I also told you that President Obama is not so naive about the big bad US Military Defense Industrial Complex that employs about a hundred million US Civilians, another million of the US Contractors, a million of the US Civilians of the US Military, hundreds of thousands at the Government Owned Government Operated and Government Owned Contractor Operated Plants and Factories Nationwide. Even President FDR knew that World War II got the US out of the 1929-1939 Great Depression, first by Nationalizing all US Industry, second suspending all US Labor Union Activities, third shipping US War Materials to England before US Entry into the War at Europe (aka WWII) an Act of War (reason the German U-Boats were sinking US Merchant Ships in the Atlantic going to and from England.). These actions of President FDR got the US out of the Great Depression after his "New Deals to the American People" Failed to do so. Note the year of the end of the Great Depression for the US (1939), and the Official Date the US entered the War after the Pearl Harbor Attack (1941).

Like previously stated, joeyfromcali, put money where your mouth is, demand to your Congressional Representatives that all US Military Installations in your State Close and move to the Southeast (cheaper and more appreciated, we in the US Military do not want to be in a State where we are not wanted.). And also state your physical address so that those millions of workers, thousands of workers of the US Contractors, etc. can visit you to let you know how they feel about being unemployed.

AntiZioNazi for your later anti jew posts:

1933 Arab World Representative and co founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, AminAl-Husseini, becomes the Arab World Liaison to Hitler. Later signs on behalf of the Arab World the Blood Oath with Hitler and his High Command (Staff). The Goals stated in the Blood Oath 1. The Muslim Brotherhood and the Nazi Party of Germany shared the common goal of Exterminating Jews. 2. Removing the British out of their Colonies (and former Colonies) of the "Middle East". Amin Al-Husseini is in charge of the Elite Muslim SS Brigade at Germany responsible for rounding up Jews for "Relocation".

The Muslim Brotherhood creates various organizations within the Arab World like "Young Egypt" that are based on the NAZI Party including mandatory school curriculum of Mein Kampf and the blame the Jews for everything (like Hitler) "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion". Go read the books.

Now like I mentioned before it is the US Labor Unions that thru the post WWII "Italian Organized Crime" are based on the National Socialist German Workers Party (including the SA "Brown Shirt" tactics, including sign your National Socialist German Workers Party (Union) card or no work and get your arse beaten as depicted in movie "Good", 2008.). This can be seen in the movies and books, F.I.S.T., On the Water Front, Last Exit to Brooklyn, Jimmy Hoffa, etc..

This is part of the History of the US Labor Unions. You can deny the facts of many (witnessed and documented History) with the propaganda like Dr. Goebbels of the few (US Labor Unions) as in keeping with the methods of the National Socialist German Workers Party (including censorship like collapsing this post or you can honestly do the research (multiple sources to dispute the Historically Documented Facts.).

nwnative like I said before research who "Mr. Corporate America" is. Same guy that had his people brief (Legal Brief) the US Supreme Court on Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions. He was fined $200,000.00 for violations of the McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act) before and during the 2008-2009 Elections.

Krotch brothers being worth billions is nothing compared to receiving nearly a billion USDs in Campaign Contributions from each Corporation.

You go do the research as to who I am talking about and then come back so that we can have an intelligent conversation. I did my detailed research on him starting in 2005. I like knowing exactly what I am getting (possibly voting for in the future.).

You union is shoveled to you idiots, you are sooo blinded but the garbage that you so called union reps are shoveling to you. Do you Really know what is going on? Or is the bull being dished out all you know...... Mark my word,,, If you get what your "BOSSES" wants you to say your getting, then In one year the whole market WILL colapse and you will be the ones that will get nothing, for you were too stupid to see anything.

Unions don't bargain, they extort. This move prevents them from extorting. Democrats buying union votes with perks, how does that represent the voters? The tax payers?

forrestoak,

let me introduce my self.

my name is mike and i. in 17 years of working, have NEVER been able to bargain for anything.

i am 33 and the only barganing i have done was sitting if front of HR in my inertview and letting them know what i need to make.

Oh.... by the way,

i have worked at jobs making $10 an hour and paying $600 a month for health insurance.
pension?
whats that?
i pay 6% of my salary into a meagerly matched 401k, that was taken away from us 2 years ago!

Soooo they can suck an onion for all i care.
welcome to the real world unions, it suck when you need a skill to make a living doesnt it?

until i hear that governor say he is going to cut wages for thoes lazy people, i cant wait for the hammer to drop!!

Lamebama needs to keep his nose out of it, he cant run a country so dont be telling people how to run a state!

I have to agree with the Extort vs Bargain..

When a Union doesnt get what it wants at the table, it tells their members to go on strike. Basically shutting down whatever business is trying to go on, and forcing the management to agree to their demands.

Remove their ability to strike, and then maybe they can keep some of their other bargaining chips. Then again, id much rather see ALL Unions get busted.

Democrats buying Union votes??? Really? You don't think the Koch brothers and Corporations didn't buy votes last November?

Unions stand for the middle-class worker and a fair shake, the Koch brothers and other Corporapists don't care about this country or its workers, just more, more, more to them! How does that represent the tax payers and voters?

It's funny you use the word extortion, you're right, that's exactly what the RepubliCONS and their Corporapists pimps are doing to our middle-class!

They can either bargain or get fired. Just because they work on the taxpayers dime they are no more special than the rest of us. I guess they forgot where the money in their paycheck comes from.

And have you heard the argument that they pay taxes? Really do they? Every dollar they earn is a was a tax dollar. So every dollar they pay in tax is just giving the government back money that is already had. They are just handing money back and forth. There is no increased revenue to the government from their tax dollars.

I live in Wisconsin, and forrestoak is exactly right - the main issue isn't the cuts but the loss of collective bargaining rights.

AFSCME offered $100 million in wage and benefits cuts, and Walker rejected it. His new plan achieves only $30 million in cuts from AFSCME, so even for the Republicans the real issue isn't the money but the bargaining rights. Walker is trying to break the unions.

Unions stand for the middle-class worker and a fair shake

Bullsh*t!!! Unions are in it for themselves and to hell with everyone else including the taxpayers!!!

forrestoak

OMG--

I have negotiated pay in every job that I have been at. I negotiated a raise when I worked at a fast food place during college. I negotiated a raise when I worked at Lowes during college. I negotiated raises when I worked as a construction worker during the summers. I have also been a part of the negotiation process as a teacher. Of course, it is much easier to negotiate for a raise when you make yourself more valuable.

That's the point here, you negotiated. You made yourself more valuable. The problem with collective bargaining though is most of the members do not do this. They do not negotiate for themselves, they do not attempt to make themselves more valuable. They are content to recieve the same amount of pay as the next guy based only on lenght of service or negotiated contract rates. What's wrong with making sure each teacher negotiates their own worth. Get good results, get pay raises and get a better salary then the teacher in the classroom next door. Don't get good results, lose your job and hire in someone willing to work to get the results. This is the way the real world works, by even you own admission.

Republicans - always advocating for the rich, giving the finger to the workers.

forrestoak:

I'm pretty sure I said that they earn their paycheck. I am not equating their job to a welfare payment. But aside from that, they have way better bennies than we do. I'm just thinking they could pay for some of what they get like the rest of us. It just dosen't seen right that my tax dollar buys them a way better deal than I can for my family. I'm paying for mine and thiers and thiers is so much better it is not justifiable. Unless you believe that they are higher class than the rest of us and deserve so much more.

omg tyrant you are soooooo right! and please note that the first three highlighted comments at the bottom of the article are from the right. look, unions can be bad...but the rank and file usually fixes that. I've never been a huge fan but they are needed to keep us from returning to the gilded age of robber barons and anyone who doesn't see that has his head up his butt. All these folks want is the right to bargain and all he wants is to remove it. Divide and conquer...thats what the repugs want...first the unions and then the pay for all middle class falls to levels that match china and india. Gosh, won't that be fun? and how will you stop it as the middle class goes bye bye?

No that's not it at all Dave. By all means get out there and earn all to can. Make yourself valuable and therefore worth more. Negotiate for yourself. Become self sufficient and prosper. Spend all that money on what you want to. Try to keep the governments paws off of what you earn.

But the unions have negotiated unrealistic benefits for their members that are getting to out of hand and we can't afford anymore.

I just think they should pay thier fair share and not expect the rest of us to foot the bill all of the time.

Rallyforge -- you got it, most unions only want the power and the money. And then they brag openly about how the control the state (i.e. NJ).

Dave,

You probably should have read my post that got collapsed for context.

Only the upper echelons of the government workforce have better (much better) 'benes' than civilian workers. Please get that much straight. Besides, for years and years, the heads of various departments have never taken pay cuts, while lower-level workers have often taken cuts in some form or other, depending upon the region.

If they repeal the tax breaks for corporations, there is NO deficit.

Where are your facts Tank Carson????

@ SJC-1437429: Sure lets get rid of tax breaks......one year later........where did all the corporations go???????? OH!!! Across the ocean............DEE DEE DEE......

Use common sense, its all about the bottom dollar. Corps will NOT hire people unless there are some tax breaks, etc.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to turn in their high school diploma. This is a free market. This is how the world works.

Corporations don't pay taxes.....you do.

Go ahead and get rid of the tax breaks. Get prepared to pay a whole bunch more at the grocery store, at the gas pump, at McDonald's, at Sears, on you electric bill and elsewhere when those taxes get passed on to you.

Democrats Legislators are running away like cowards instead to cast their votes. When Obamacare pass Republicans vote, none of them run away even knowing they where going to lose. This is the character of Democrats leaders in Wisconsin run and lose. Shame of them.

Touchdownplay: How correct you are sir.

But then again, with these teachers sucking at their job, do you really expect these people bashing the corps to realize that? They are jsut preaching what these same union teachers taught them...........

Everyone go read the communinst manifesto and their goals from 1963

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

Not all, but some tax breaks, do need to be eliminated.

Go ahead and get rid of the tax breaks. Get prepared to pay a whole bunch more at the grocery store, at the gas pump, at McDonald's, at Sears, on you electric bill and elsewhere when those taxes get passed on to you.

I have no problem with that since I can decide what I want to spend my earnings on. All forms of corporate welfare including oil and farm subsidies need to be eliminated.

I love how the fringes only see the hypocrisy from the 'other guy'. Republicans are in the pockets of big business, and democrats are in the pockets of the unions. Its been like this, and will continue to be like this because neither side actually wants change. They just want the other side to change.

The left and the right are the same thing. The only difference is what each side deems the 'evil' that needs to be fought to save the rest of us from. The fact that so many sheep here wear left/right blinders would be funny if it werent so sad.

Corporations have the option to run to foreign soil to drive their profits. The public sector cannot teach, or plow snow, or pick up your trash down in MEXICO! If the public sector and their jobs had stuck around there would be plenty of tax cash flow for local and state governments to provide the services necessary to maintain their municipalities. The public sector can not compete in the global market and therefore needs protected from it. Otherwise, turn everything over to the private sector and see what happens to the price of an education or trash pickup, or water. GOOD LUCK!

Dismantle and Privatize: these are the collective objectives of elected Republican representatives. Owned by Corporations and Special Interests, they exist to promote and pave the way to a future in which Health care, Education and Police protection will only go to those who can afford it.

Right now, GOP wants to divert us away from their lack of ideas and commitment to job creation. Innovating our way back to fiscal health is not the goal of Republicans in Congress. Their vision is one in which 98% of Americans have little protection and no recourse.

This is pretty typical. GOP legislature and governor turning their hatred to public employees and unions. This is NOT about saving money. It's about busting a union, and punishing the blue collar workers who vote Democrat. These Republicans should be careful what they wish for, because a judge is simply going to overturn their law anyways. It's been tried before to take away collective bargaining rights, and you can't do it. They overturn it everytime, and then you end up having to pay back the government employees all the money that's owed to them by the state, that they signed on the dotted line with in the beginning. If this governor was serious about saving money, he would have freezed salary, new hires, and furloughed workers. NOT take away their collective bargaining rights. Because now you're going to cost the taxpayers of Wisconsin extra umpteen millions of dollars in fighting lawsuits. Good job in committing political suicide. Yeah, whatever happened to the great industries of the Rust Belt? You know the steeling industry? Oh yeah, guys like Reagan busted those unions, and forced the companies to outsource.

And to all you anti-American folks who harp on unions (which made this country great by the way in the early 20th century), why don't you instead turn your anger from the unions, to the people who deserve it? You know, instead of crying to the people in unions who get their benefits through bargaining, why don't you go cry to your sh***y corporate bosses you work for that are taking away what you should be getting anyways? You're hatred is entirely mis-directed.

Get your facts together Backhouse and MS-85.

I can give plenty facts, read above posts, where what the democratic does is along the lines of the socialist and communists goals.

You and others like you are traitors to our country and have no respect for our soldiers past, present, and future, who died to keep socialists (Hitler) and communists (Stalin) from taking over the world.

Stop repeating your crap Tank Carson. Where did 1 trillion of Obama's money go?

The Unions consider themselves a little Oligarchy, whose needs supercede those of the majority!

If state workers will not give back some of their benfits, there's no solution to the fiscal crisis in Wisconsin (or anywhere!). You can't raise taxes anymore because we are TAPPED OUT! The solution in bankrupt states is for union workers to agree to some kind of giveback and maybe look for other jobs in the private sector if they don't believe they're being compensated fairly in the public arena. Union benefits are strangling not only state budgets, but also the private economy. The truth is that unions have reached the top of their earning pyramid!

What the Democrats in Wisconsin are doing is criminal.... they are running away from their obligations and this article sympathizes with them. Are the Unions running MSNBC too?

Well, that's the Republican mantra these days, cut taxes, cut spending, create a crisis, cut spending, cut taxes... rinse and repeat until there is no government left.

Wow, turned a budget surplus into a deficit, and so to balance that, wants to remove collective bargaining.

You know, if the Democrats tried to do that to the Republicans, there would be war. What happened to rights? What happened to freedom?

We've seen some brand new political tactics over the past couple of years, but this one takes the cake !!!

A political party doesn't like the way it appears a vote will turn out...so they disappear into the night like bats on mosquito patrol and the state police have to go searching to find out where they have disappeared to !!!

And these people are (supposedly) Wisconsin's "leaders" !!!

I'm guessing that there are aliens watching all this take place and wondering what the idiot humans will come up with next. They could be watching us for cheap entertainment the way humans watch all those stupid reality shows on TV. Maybe the show is called "Keeping Up With The Earthlings", "Human Shore", or "The Real Humans of Planet Earth".

I wonder if watching "us" will lower the collective intelligence of the aliens, just like Earth's reality shows have done to the human race ???

Your party of dumbos took them away

Dennis-816242

forrestoak "Explain how they extort? In the collective bargaining process each side brings issues to the table, they spend hours negotiating, and then they come together on an agreement that is satisfactory to both parties. Unfortunately, the government negotiators have been very poor and gave up long-term stability for short term savings."

What you are conveniently overlooking is that the unions are "negotiating" with the very same politicians that they helped elect. Gee, I wonder how hard the politicians 'negotiate' against the people that control their political fates? Most people would consider that a 'conflict of interest', but the unions love it.

Wonder if Tax money was budgeted for those orange shirts.

Touchdownplay- they have way better bennies than we do. I'm just thinking they could pay for some of what they get like the rest of us.

The public employees agreed to low wages (relative to the private sector) in exchange for good benefits. That's the way it's been for 50 years in Wisconsin, and I suspect in most other states.

Now the Republicans are trying to unilaterally abrogate that agreement in order to destroy the unions. The result will harm the economy, and harm Wisconsin's public services making Wisconsin a less attractive business climate in the long term. Good schools, clean water, good roads, and an ethical and responsible government have been Wisconsin's hallmark - the Republicans are killing that.

I can't get my way so I'm taking my bat and ball and leaving.

Fire them!!!!!!! If you can't show up for work JUST LIKE US you get Fired!What kind of trash walks away , it's like little kid that runs away.Is this what is running our goverment, Little running children.I can see a child doing this kind of stuff but really a grownup that has so much power do you trust them with making clear adult choices?SOUND like bunch low life just in it for a ride and power trip.I can't get my way so I'm taking my bat and ball and leaving

I am no longer a resident of Wisconsin, but the Democrats are subverting the democratic process in this instance. The voters of Wisconsin spoke in November, and a special interest minority has no right to interfere with the wishes of the majority. The Democrats should be hauled in to vote. This is addressed by the Wisconsin state constitution. In addition, the teachers should be required to return to their classrooms or be dismissed--in other words, their butts should be fired! If they don't want to teach, someone else who is qualifed and in need of a job should take their place. Welcome to the real world!

skreek,

Nice try,

The average wage and benifit package of a teacher in Wisconson is $89,000.00 / year for 9 months of work,

The average private sector worker in the U.S. wages and befifits add up to about $61,000.00 / year for 12 months of work.

Lower wages my azz.

The proposed legislation makes good sense. Nobody's pay is going to be cut. They are asking State workers to pay a realistic portion of their benefits and to start paying in something for their pension. Seems very fair to me. Also, if the State workers are valued so highly by the citizens of the State of Wisconsin then they should have no worries when it comes time to vote on any increase in wages above the indexed wage increases in a public referendum.

I agree Waterdog. I am tired of the teacher's unions touting that "it's all about the children" and then walking out of their classrooms, closing down the schools, and leaving the children without.

If you didn't have a teacher's union, then the schools could hire the best teachers and pay them more and promote them based on their ability to teach, not on how many years they've sat in front of a classroom. They could also get rid of teachers who are simply putting in their time and can't be fired because their unions protect them. You could move teachers around based on what is best for the kids or the school, not based on who can "bump" others. The unions protect the status quo and promote a least-common-denominator of performance (in any job,not just teaching). If you can't get more money by doing a better job, then why bust your butt?

Tank Carson: OMG.........give me links, reports, etc........

Where is the link to the WI government report showing that surplus? And the ones showing the tax breaks?

Do I really have to spell out how to provide facts?

MS-85, I hope you are right, but I don't have a lot of confidence in the Court system any more. It has become so corrupted by conservative ideology that I'm not sure it is capable of impartially administering the law.

most unions only want the power and the money.

Why is this okay if you're a wealthy, conservative Republican and wrong if you are a workingman or workingman?

If the Bush-Cheney Administration was about anything, it was about getting power and money for themselves and their pals.

forrestoak

@STL Mike---I completely agree with you and I know several other teachers think that they could negotiate better salaries on their own if the hiring process was given in the hands of each school. It doesn't work on larger districts because people are forced to have their children go to a school nearby. Unfortunately, that is not the way things are now and teachers as individuals have no ability to negotiate for better pay. It needs to be free market, or allow the collective bargaining. A hybrid won't work. It would be like the health care bill, neither party is happy and it creates more problems than it solves.

Well, I would agree with you and that's why a voucher system for education would also benefit the country. Schools would end up competeing against each other to attract better teachers and students and parents could actually choose where their kids went to school. But, ther had traditionally been way too much opposition by the teachers unions to allow this to happen as they know more kids would enroll in the private schools and get a better education. Over time this would eliminate the non-performing public schools and increse the overall quality of education within this country. It will also drastically cut expenses to the public as most private schools have a history of providing better education at lower cost per capita. In private schools, teacher can and do negotiate for themselves and the poor ones are eliminated.

American for Israel , in response to #2.48.

Here we go again...another person spouting about getting facts straight when they don't have their own in order.

Hitler and the Nazis were Fascists. Yes they called themselves the National Socialist Party but it was in name only.

From Wikipedia: (Or go read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich)

"The March on Rome brought Fascism international attention. One early admirer of the Italian Fascists was Adolf Hitler, who, less than a month after the March, had begun to model himself and the Nazi Party upon Mussolini and the Fascists."

Fascism is a far right ideology...

"Fascism is an authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy."

Sounds a lot like what the Republicans are pushing...are you ready to bow to your corporate authoritarian??

I'll save you the trouble, here's the link. Or Google Nazi and Fascism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

American for Isreal "Use common sense, its all about the bottom dollar. Corps will NOT hire people unless there are some tax breaks, etc."

do you think there are businesses out there who desperately need to hire workers, but because of their massive tax obligations (which are the lowest they have ever been in our nations history) simply cant do it? thats pretty hilarious if you do.

Here's a better reason why employers arent hiring...there is no customer demand. And why isnt there customer demand? Because more and more americans keep losing their jobs, or have their wages slashed, and they simply cant afford to participate in the economy anymore.

I keep saying this over and over, and no one responds to it - how is the economy supposed to function when 10% of the population is holding 90% of the nations wealth?

That sounds very much like a nation on the verge of becoming a 3rd world nation...where there is no middle class, only the rich and everyone else.

Wisconsin Voters:

Vote Out the Democrats in Wisconsin who went AWOL in the next Election..

The kids in Wisc. are being punished, not the selfish adults who are cowards running away from the Vote.

To deny a child a education for how long, is disgraceful, and will likely affect their views on teachers, education, and "what happened" to me, when they need a continual daily structure of learning; watching adults behave like animals. Our children are our future. It certainly is child abuse, taking away a child's daily education. Why are the American people paying Taxes?

The Dems who went AWOL have set a bad example. America has gone Wild!---Unions. Crooked operations.

In most states it is the law enforcement unions which are the primary cause of the strain on state and local governments. With high salaries, outrageous overtime and retirement benefits in California it is not uncommon for police, prison guards and the like to earn well over 100k a year. Yet, this bill leaves those very unions intact.

Seems a piece meal approach to a problem that does need addressed.

What I find really amusing is these Democrat cheese heads went to Illinois! I true Wisconsinite would never go to FIBland even to hide. These choads are the bottom of the barrel. The citizens of Wisconsin should banish them to Illinois forever!

I agree with you Bruce.

From my understanding, this bill isn't forcing the Unions to disband. They are only requiring Binding Arbitration instead of negotiations. It needs to be that way across the country for ANY public sector worker. This way the Unions can't hold the public hostage, like my teacher's union did 2 years ago to my children and my family (and all the other families in our district).

Corporations have outsourced their operations overseas, drying up revenue,... Does this mean we have to outsource our teaching (home schooling), Police (privately owned firearms), Fire (bucket brigade), and medicine (shaminism) to ourselves,...?

STLMike "Well, I would agree with you and that's why a voucher system for education would also benefit the country. Schools would end up competeing against each other to attract better teachers"

And how would a school compete to get better teachers, offer better wages and compensation benefits? *scratches head...or are there are incentives im unaware of? because I thought the whole point of this was that teachers are way too overpaid to begin with.

"and students and parents could actually choose where their kids went to school."

this would only work if private/charter schools have no ability to turn a student they dont like away - OR - to allow public schools to refuse to accept the very students private/charter schools dont have to accept. Otherwise, what will happen is all private/charter schools will have the best students, and all public schools will have whats left.

"But, ther had traditionally been way too much opposition by the teachers unions to allow this to happen as they know more kids would enroll in the private schools and get a better education. Over time this would eliminate the non-performing public schools and increse the overall quality of education within this country."

You cant simply close a school and give those kids no alternative to go to, can you? Hell, lets just close all public schools...and no vouchers my friend, just pay for it yourself.

Thats the end result of your suggestions, lets just save time - and hell, lots of money. You dont mind an even more stupid america, do you?

"It will also drastically cut expenses to the public as most private schools have a history of providing better education at lower cost per capita. In private schools, teacher can and do negotiate for themselves and the poor ones are eliminated."

private schools are paid for by the parents of the kids who go to those schools. Sure, from a govt perspective - we'll save money, but anyone with a kid going to school - wont. They'll be spending much more.

I dont know if you realized this, but your scenario concludes with ultimately - all the crappy teachers are out of the picture, leaving only the best and the brightest...who, subsequently, cost the most...cuz they are so amazing and wonderful, ya know. Cost savings? not so much, i mean...unless you consider adding indefinitely more uneducated people to the welfare rolls a savings.

Touchdownplay - The average wage and benifit package of a teacher in Wisconson is $89,000.00 / year for 9 months of work,

The average private sector worker in the U.S. wages and befifits add up to about $61,000.00 / year for 12 months of work.

Sounds like you not only pulled those figures out of your ass, but then compared ass apples to ass oranges. At the very least you should be comparing average Wisconsin public sector packages to average Wisconsin private sector packages.

FYI, Wisconsin teachers rank 28th in the nation for the total salary & benefit package and lag the national average by 9%, but we consistently have one of the very best school systems. Our starting teacher pay is the 2nd lowest in the nation:

Beginning Teacher Salary: $31,714
Average Teacher Salary: $51,121

Again, if you're going to compare average public vs private figures, at least make a minimal attempt to do it honestly. Even if your figures were correct - which they clearly are not - it's meaningless to compare a subgroup of Wisconsin public sector workers to a national private sector wage.

So Jessica, are you suggesting that we NEED to keep crappy teachers in the classroom? That's ridiculous.

Some people need history lessons. Bussinesses created unions. Don't like bargaing rights? Try moving to China, you probably buy all your junk from there.Spend a few more pennies and support THIS country.

Tank Carson: OMG.........give me links, reports, etc........

Where is the link to the WI government report showing that surplus? And the ones showing the tax breaks?

Do I really have to spell out how to provide facts?

Dear American for Israel,

Don't let "Tank McType the same post over and over" get to you. Your posts are worth reading and provide a lot of valuable info. Tank's one post is kind of like Don Rickles one Joke except no body's laughing.

Crystal5,

Yep, you are absolutly right! Businesses are moving out of the U.S. to remain compeditive in the world economy. I am guessing here. But you seen to blame business not government for the policies that make it attractive to do business outside of the U.S.

So your solution is beat up businesses more to make them come back? Amazing.

You support the party of anti-business yet you bemoan them leaving.

Question for ya, what happens to all of those public sector jobs when all of the jobs from the private sector dry up? Are they going to pay for themselves? Or can Obama just print more money to pay them?

I'm looking forward to your response. I think it might be priceless.

Bob62, I think it's truer to say that organized crime created unions.

"Fascist governments are dictatorial. There is no right for free speech and opposition against the government is a strict no no."

Sounds a little like the direction the Democrats are taking these days... no debate of issues.... run and hide until fiscal conservatives run out of steam or are blocked by new regulations. How dare they criticize Obama's spending or the Unions attractive benefits, laws must be impemented to stop the dirty Conservatives! Is this the American way? I hope not!

WILL ALL OF YOU STOP COLLAPSING POSTS. I am courtesous enough to readall of your posts, gets really annoying having to keep expanding all the collapsed posts, just because you do not want others to see someone else's view point or facts (all sides of the issues).

Update from CBS News, February 18, 2011, the Governor has a choice get this Law passed or lay off 5,500 people. Listen to both sides of the arguement, then dispute the facts.

Walker said he was hired to fill a $3.6 billion budget hole, and that his plan is saving 5,500 state workers' jobs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/18/earlyshow/main20033283.shtml?tag=stack

As far as the History of the US Labor Unions see my post at #1.56 - Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:58 AM HST

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/18/6079091-first-thoughts-upside-down

For those that are too lazy to read the above, History of the US Labor Unions. It was NOT a Repugnant that busted US Labor Unions, it was President FDR, as he suspended US Labor Union Activities prior to WWII, during WWII, this lasted even after he died. His suspension of US Labor Union Activities including authorizing the US Military Police to use Deadly Force against US Labor Union Strikers organized by the "Italian Organized Crime", resulting in the US Military Police machinegunning the US Labor Union Strikers. Go read the rest at the above link.

As far as the US Labor Unions here's a great (self serving) Idea. Unionize us (US Military) so that we can make a "fair and decent living wage". I mean seriously we are "on the job" 24/7/365 while at the Wars calculated by the amount of our pay puts us way below the Federal Minimum Wage.

By the way if we walk off the job, we get the UCMJ thrown at us (Federal Prison). If you walk off the job because you do not like something at a Private Sector Jobs = Fired. Public Servants walk off the jobs and they get cheers of applause. We would like to just walk off the job and come home from the Wars (after years of consecutive tours here (Afghanistan) and Iraq) to get drunk (illegal at Islamic Nations) and laid (illegal at Islamic Nations and UCMJ morality Laws (fraternization (including with locals), adultery, fornecation (sex with someone not your spouse), conduct unbecoming of ...., etc.).

I already told all of you that the US Education System is broken, think from a manufacturing stand point, would you buy that defective product. Well you did and now those that made that defective product want more money. From firsthand experience with Public, Private, and International Education Systems I already told all of you (spoonfed) the Solution at other Newsvine Forum (Topics). You think President Obama is sweating bullets about this, his children attend a Private School on the Voucher System.

"Fascist governments are dictatorial. There is no right for free speech and opposition against the government is a strict no no."

This sounds more right wing to me. "If you're not with us you're against us", wiretapping, freedom zones, business has more free speech rights than workers. This all brought to you by the right wing.

It sounds like a lot of the republican whine is coming from pepole making money and getting bennefits from their employment. Why don't you crybabies take your own advice and pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Don't like the bennefits you get (whaaa) get a different job. Too lazy to get a govt job rightwingers? But.. some teacher makes over 60 K a year. Big deal, the handful of teachers that make that much are worth more than all over the 1 mil + ceo's that run companies into the ground, take the pension money and duck out.

This is a free market so you should stop whinning about what others are getting and go get your own. Or does that only apply to certain people? Take some personal responsibility for once you cry baby pugs.

Thank you Beatle Baby for your words!

skreek,

Please try a little harder next time. Yes the NEA's website clearly states that the Average Salary of a teacher in Wisconson is Average Teacher Salary: $51,121.00.

This is BEFORE benefits. Add those in and you get about $89,000.00.

Nice name calling and slamming by the way. You are a true artist at that.

Let's see over the weekend when the people that actually go to work to pay the taxes for the salaries of these "wild-cat" de facto striking teachers don't have to go to work and come out in support of the Governor....

What is the lesson plan the teachers are using for their actions ??...."If I don't get what I want, I walk out of my classroom and have a temper tantrum and scream "I'm doing this for Children"
Really ??....paying something for your own retirement and healthcare will hurt the children how ??

Is there a textbook to go along with that lesson plan....maybe "Rules for Radicals" or "The Communist Manifesto" perhaps ???

Apparently the candidates that had the support of the teachers union did not win this past November....the candidates that had the support of the rest of the citizens did.

Touchdownplay - Please try a little harder next time. Yes the NEA's website clearly states that the Average Salary of a teacher in Wisconson is Average Teacher Salary: $51,121.00.

This is BEFORE benefits. Add those in and you get about $89,000.00.

You pulled that figure out of your ass again. Here's the real data from the Wisconsin DPI:

http://www.dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html

http://www.dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/xls/tasr10.xls

From the 2nd link showing 2010 teacher salaries and benefits, averaging the district average salaries and benefits across the state shows a $46.4K average salary, $25.1K average fringe, yielding a $71.5K statewide average.

Your $89K figure is entirely bogus. You must be a FOX viewer.

skrekk....So, $71,500 / 180 day work year = $397.22 a day.....Not bad for working in a sulfur mine....oh wait....that's in a heated/air conditioned classroom with a bunch of skulls full of mush.....Open a Text book written by someone else and start with Chapter 1.......... yeah, yeah and don't go off telling me about doing lesson plans at home (they come with the text book)...or grading papers......no one on salary works just 9 to 5....it comes with the territory.

Skrekk,

You will be happy to know my figure came from Rush Limbaugh.

Let me step back before your head explodes!

forrestoak

I don't know about extortion - but when they strike they hold your kids education hostage! And to replace them with their level of experience especially state wide is impossible. I think putting a limit on the demands is a good idea.

Byl - "Fascist governments are dictatorial. There is no right for free speech and opposition against the government is a strict no no."

This sounds more right wing to me. "If you're not with us you're against us", wiretapping, freedom zones, business has more free speech rights than workers. This all brought to you by the right wing.

Are you saying that President Obama is "the Right Wing" as Bush III.

Go research President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (plural) that legalized all those illegal activities of President Bush's Patriot Act (singular). Made legal under President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts, the monitoring and censorship of all US Communications by this Agency:

http://www.cbsnews.com/1770-5_162-0.html?query=nsa&tag=srch&searchtype=cbsSearch

Ardent Bush Basher warned you about this:

Naomi Wolf "The End of America: Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

Ironically her warning came true under President Obama not Bush, as the President Obama January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts included those defeated UnConstitutional provisions of H.R.1955 and S.1959 (supported/sponsored by then Senator Obama, Senator Hillary Clinton, Demoncraptic Congress, Nancy Pelosi, etc.) also known as the George Orwell, 1984, Thought Crimes Laws, in that the Thought is the crime, not only the action. example: "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist".

H.R.1955 and S.1959:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=H.R.1955&aq=f

Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, "All those returning from the Wars must be considered as possible Homegrown Domestic Terrorists". (Guilty until proven innocent).

February 2009, Under threat of prosecution from the President Obama Administration many internet sites changed their format to censor US internet access, like http 404, "Blocked in your Region", "Registration Required to View Blocked Material" (with address verificaton), "Not available in your Zone", etc.. This was especially true for the International News Media internet sites and youtube.com. The President Obama January 21, 2009, Patriot Acts also includes the without Warrant requirement for Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to provide the Physical Location (Address) of their Customers.

When I wrote to President Obama and US Congress, all I got was a form letter saying don't worry about it in so many words.

February 2011, some provisions of the President Obama, January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts have been extended for 9 months (the majority of the President Obama January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts are still in effect for years).

Byl = uninformed post.

For those looking where they got the information that Wis. actually has a tax surplus...

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf

Take a look at page 2!

The irony of all this is that these Wisconsin protests are the first real grassroots movement that any of these tea partiers will ever see.

Well with the tea party busing in the nut squads.. I bet the cops will beat and jail the teachers so they can keep their bargaining rights..

Walker is a no talent leader. Wi is one of the most hardworking and humble states in America. TheY deserve better then the Teabaggs version of freedom

As Americans the fine people of Wi have the right to unionize. The Repubs can try to cut budget however they want but they are not allowed to do away with unions.

American for Israel

Your electric bill............really? You think you will be able to choose a cheaper company after this happens?

=================

American for Isreal, correct me if I'm wrong but after reading the drivel you've bdeen spewing forth on here it would seem we have us a real live Neo Nazi Fascist on board. Still have the brown shirt neatly pressed waiting for the appropriate time to wear it? Or are you just another paid blogger from the RNC?

As for the utility question, our electric company turns in a nice profit every year but every year they go to the state and request double digit rate hikes. Idaho being the good right wing rethuglicant state it is doesn't turn them down. Why? Could it be the campaign contributions.

What narrow minded people like yourself can't grasp is niether party cares about you. You are an end to their means. They want to get in power, then stay in popwer. If they can get their little minded follower, like you and madisininny, to blindly follow their mantra, even better. Me thinks you and many others had better open their eyes and start to use their thoguht process before it's too late.

As others have said, Wisconsin had a small surplus left over from Doyle. Walker used that surplus to create tax breaks for businesses and give money to special interests groups.

Interesting how the only good unions are law enforcement and emergency services. They were the only unions to endorse him last year. If similar measures were applied to the WI state patrol, it would make sense and make it much easier to drive through WI with out of state plates. The WI state patrol will find any excuse to give a car with Illinois or Minnesota plates a ticket.

Walker also is targeting the University of Wisconsin system. The Madison campus is both directly and indirectly responsible for economic growth and job creation in Dane County. If it was not for that school, Madison would be losing jobs, instead of creating them. It's because of that school that Madison is growing and bringing in jobs in agricultural research to name one area. Over the past decade, more jobs have been created because of that school than will be created through tax breaks to make Wisconsin more attractive to businesses from Illinois and Minnesota to relocate there.

this anti-worker bill would be the beginning of the end of the middle class

The whole concept of government employess being allowed to unionize is crazy on it's face. What profit to they want a part of?

Safecracker: Great post. Sadly no one who needs to read it will but it does put into perspective why CA is broke and why there needs to be a massive reduction in the goody programs. think there will be a protest ala WI if that money river is threatened? Reminds me of Greece and France and the riots and protests for maintaining untenable massive government socialist programs.

TEA Party = Tax Evading Americans Party

"fighting fire with fire"? So what your saying is everybody gets burned. Look you forcefully fools! When you push americans they shoot and then ask questions. We have the bloodiest past for the short existence of our country. Bring intellectuals in and leave the hot air balloons at home. U may spark a fire that leaves nothing for the future no money no stability just rem nets of hate.

For those of you who would like to discover more about the history and ideals of fascism, here are a few links. Please pay close attention to the Italian model under Mussolini where the major corporations actually became the government. (So to speak.) I believe this to be more in form with what may be taking place in the U.S. today. These are not obscure links cooked up by some crackpot trying to further their own cause. Please... read them in their entirety and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Fascism

http://homepage.mac.com/stray/ib/history/fascism.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Average Government Worker wage and benefit package in Michigan is 5% lower than same job in Private Sector, according to a recent survey done by an independent research firm...and if the unions disappear, does anybody think that the Mega-Billionaires will continue the current wages for anyone, union or not?

Since when is it OK for a family's income to DROP by $$$thousands annually?

I am a proud, hard working UNION GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE and my spouse works for the opposite end of the spectrum, Wal-Mart, Inc.

Our collective wages for the last 3 years have shown a reduction each year...sound good, all you union haters?

The Unions created the middle class, and alot of our fore fathers sacrificed to get wages and benefits so that they could enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Did it drive General Motors or others out of business? No, Bad management came close to doing that.

The endless stream of corporations exiting this country for foreign shores has resulted in reduced tax revenues...We currently enjoy some of the lowest tax rates in industrialized Nations, Worldwide.

Ask a Canadian, who pays 65% of wages in taxes of various sorts, and has far inferior Health Care than we do..

Obama Care was forced to be what it is by members of BOTH PARTIES who made sure to get their pork, ETC. in the final package. The Health Industry is bankrupting this country, and now we, the working class are being made to pay for it. WHY??

The falling numbers of employees in unions is because of aggressive union busting by corporations during the last 30-40 years, hostile conservative congresses and presidents and their administrations, lax enforcement by the Labor Dept. and union leadership that was corrupt and in bed with corporations (like the UAW).

The laws are also stacked against unions. Like someone said: in the U.S. it's not illegal to strike it's just illegal to win one.

Oh yeah, and the media. Who owns and runs it? Big corporations. How fair do you think they have been in talking about unions and strikes?

It's a wonder even the small percentage of workers that are unionized are in unions when you consider the powerful, well funded, forces that have been set against them.

you mark my word fellow Americans.......if the tea party nuts get there way corporate America will screw you even more........

You get decent wages due to unions...if they fall you fall. I hope everyone is willing to work more hours in this country with much less pay......we started going downhill fast under gwbush. We are on the verge of being a third world country, everything your parents and grandparents fought for will be null and void. Folks keep listening to Fox news and you reap what you are sowing.

William Massey you are a fool.............Canadians by 92 percent would keep their health care over our dismal so called health care insurance. Wake up and smell the roses.

Isn't it funny how WI had a large surplus when this new Gov. went into office. He then used that surplus money to give tax breaks to big businesses. Now he wants to take away the unions from the working class citizens. It sure seems like the unions for the workers are the same as the lobbyists are for the wealthy elite businesses. However, the Republicans sole intent is to take the power of representation away from the common worker. And for what purpose? Is it to keep the common workers under their control and even more money in their pockets?? Also, consider this, how much of this is political repercussion from the last election when the Bill allows the police and fire to keep their arbitration, but not the teachers, who did not support the Gov. in this last election? From what I understand the police and fire departments supported the new Gov. Certainly one profession is not any better than the other. When are the Constituents going to get fed up with the Gestapo like control and start forcing the politicians with being fiscally responsible inside their own wasteful spending ranks? Congress has no problem raising their annual salary (but it is currently on hold). They do not contribute to SS, have lucrative pensions, and health care plans for life after serving just one term in Congress. So why isn't anyone going after those issues rather than always taking it out on the workers? Also, in a time of Recession (which still exists in spite of what some resources say otherwise), we should not be spending money on military logos for racing cars when so many people are out of work, etc. That money could be spent on far more worthwhile projects, not to mention cutting back the armed forces, or bringing our soldiers back home rather than trying to entice them to serve in illegal and non-winnable wars in countries that don't appreciate our efforts. I for one am tired of feeding the pockets of the elite first, while watching them turn their backs on the workers and elderly while holding them as hostages to get what they want. You get exactly what you vote for! Try thinking for yourself without relying on campaign ads and big businesses looking out only for themselves and taking over your vote.

continued from post above:

It's too bad that the only person taking the unions side on big media is that Democrat stooge and gas bag Ed Shultz but I guess, in the corporate media you have to take what you can get.

The Democrats have been as bad or almost as bad as the Republicans when it comes to attacking the rights and standard of living of union and non union working people so working people should not put any faith in either party.

Clinton pushed through NAFTA and financial deregulation and Obama dropped trying to push the union backed "card check" legislation as soon as it looked like he was going to be elected.

Both parties are funded by big corporations so you can't trust either one...unless you are rich.

I wonder if the Tea Partiers are going to ride into the crowd of protesters on camels and horses like the goons did in Cairo?

i don't get it. I work for a private company. I pay into my own retirement. Not a pension, but a 401k. I pay 100% of what I want to pay. I take responsibility of my future. I pay 100% of my dental. I pay 50% of my health. Why should I foot the bill for public employees. They need to stand on their own. As independent thinker thinks they should just raise taxes on the private sector so that the unions can keep their monopoly.

Another thing is these kids are being hurt and their educations are being suspended because the unions don't want to pay "THEIR FAIR SHARE." They somehow think the government can continue to function on a deficit. Unions charge dues. Then unions go out and donate to political campaigns. It just doesn't make sense.

I say he should pull a Reagan and tell them to get back to work or get fired. Plenty unemployed that are looking for a teaching position. Send in the national guard if needs be.

I'm tired of these people thinking everything is free if you leech off the taxpayer. This is just another example of how Unions have become too powerful and too negligent. They never compromise, only complain.

of course this is about power and the campaign funding for the next election... It is interesting that we don't have an Democrats limiting the benefits and raises on the private sector just so that the Democrats can please the workers to get their votes... Could the Democrats in Wisconson be missing out on an angle???

Joe, then you won't mind increasing their pay enough to afford those things? You are PROOF the private sector makes FAR more than the public sector! There's no way in hell that most public sector employees would have the ability to afford that proposition! What is wrong with you? Please do some research instead of just listening to one side of this issue! We have to come together and find a compromise to this situation!

No actually in my field if I worked for the state I'd be making more there. Also, getting better benefits and all those holidays and vacation days I don't get.

You do some research. I also deal with laborers. I know what the prevailing wages are and I know what the supplemental benefits are.

Who do you think should be paying for your health, holidays, dental and retirement? You think I should be? Through taxes?

Kevin,

Once again, TEA Party means Taxed Enough Already. Sorry you can't get it through your head.

Put down the bong. OK?

Safecracker, that's a pretty impressive list. No state should be saddled with those people.

Here's my take on things; Government (like other thieves) does not like competition. When there's plenty of revenues, no problem. That's not now. Unions are basically another level of bureaucracy. Money's tight. We have federal, state, county, and city bureaucracies. Unions are at the bottom of the totem pole under all of them. They are not government, but they are a quasi-government, which imposes a tax, and nobody can argue with this; their existence increases the cost of goods to the consumer/taxpayer. Wisconsin is cutting costs and their solution is to cut the union bureaucracy first.

If you want to see how loyal the unions bureaucracy is to their members you don't have to look any further than GM. The UAW sold out their retirees, took a payoff, got a stake in the "new" GM and what happened to the healthcare packages for former GM employees? It evaporated. The unions got paid off, and poof, the old people got screwed. Now, why would anyone join a union after this betrayal? Only if they are stupid.

Unions are only in business to create another bureaucracy to legitimize their existence, and give themselves a job. Nothing more. Fire them all.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/102748564.html

It is funny how the unionisers say there was a surplus when the current governor came into office. However, they must have listened to Obama when they got their facts. See the above link for answers to your foolishness.

Bob,

Ya but they really believe their lies. I don't think there is any hope for a newspaper article to change their attitude.

They just want more, more, more and more like any spoiled little kid. They will still blame anyone but Libs when the Piper comes calling. The Piper wants paid too. The only problem with that is the Piper always gets his due. No gined up union protest will stop him when he comes calling. He will get his due and all of us will suffer if we don't change our ways.

Bob it's like when they say that Clinton balanced the budget. It is ridiculous how libs spin information.

California sure has a lot of boards, doesn't it?

All those people are on the dole. My, my. No wonder they can afford to go to another state than AZ. The taxpayers paid twice on that one.

Considering how slavish the corporate media is to the corporate front group, The Tea Party I'm sure even if a much smaller group of them than the protesters rallies in Madison they will be projected as a huge counter demonstration to the pro union people.

Don't be fooled by Democrat Stooges Rachel Maddow and Ed Shutlz. The corporate media hates unions as much as any other group of big companies.

"The aim of the Democrats’ maneuver is to defuse the mounting opposition in the working class, and make the bill subject to backroom negotiations through which an accommodation can be reached for the union bureaucracies. The senators feared that, had the Republicans speedily passed the bill, an explosion of anger in Madison would have resulted. As one of the senators stated from his hiding place in Illinois, the aim is “to slow this thing down.” Another told a radio station that the senators would return in a “day or two.”

In the interim, the Democrats will attempt to work out a rotten deal behind the scenes. Union officials have repeatedly stressed that they are willing to concede massive wage concessions—this is in fact the role unions are playing in Wisconsin and all over the country—so long as they are involved in their implementation. “This is not about protecting our pay and our benefits,” as Wisconsin Education Association Council President Mary Bell told a press conference. “It is about protecting our right to collectively bargain.”"

The Wisconsin protests and the re-emergence of the American working class

18 February 2011

Growing mass protests in Wisconsin involving tens of thousands of state workers, teachers, students and their supporters against sweeping attacks on working conditions and democratic rights mark a turning point in the political life of the United States and of the world.

The recent toppling of the presidents of Tunisia and Egypt by mass protests signified the re-emergence of revolutionary struggle by the working class. The conditions that created these struggles, however, are universal—mass unemployment, staggering levels of social inequality, and a political system that is completely impervious to the demands and interests of the vast majority of the population. The eruption of mass protests in Wisconsin is an initial expression of a new era of open class struggle in the country that has long functioned as the center of the world capitalist system, the United States.

After the 1980s—which saw the smashing of the PATCO air traffic controllers strike and the defeat of militant strikes of Hormel, Greyhound, and Phelps Dodge workers—the class struggle in the United States was artificially suppressed. This was made possible due to the thoroughly reactionary role of the AFL-CIO trade union, which has systematically worked to isolate and defeat every struggle of the working class, while integrating itself ever more closely into the corporate and political establishment.

Especially after the liquidation of the Soviet Union by the Stalinist bureaucracy, when the bourgeoisie’s triumphalist denunciations of socialism were at their height, some denied that the working class even existed. History—as in the famous phrase from the Communist Manifesto, “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles”—it was claimed, had ended.

Two and a half years into the global economic crisis that began with the financial meltdown on Wall Street in the fall of 2008, the working class in the United States is mounting its first major counterattack against the policies of the financial aristocracy. There is a growing realization that the political and economic system has failed. A new social order must emerge.

In Wisconsin, demonstrators have invoked the mass uprising by workers in the Arab world, comparing Madison to Cairo and Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker to Hosni Mubarak. In New York City, students protesting against school closures have chanted, “New York is Egypt.” This is entirely appropriate, and is an expression of a growing sense among workers in every country that they face a common struggle and a common enemy.

The financial aristocracy that rules America is every bit as removed from and hostile to masses of working people as the dictatorial regime that was headed by President Hosni Mubarak in Egypt. In the face of the worst economic crisis in generations—as millions lost their jobs, homes, and incomes—no measures were taken to help working people. Instead, trillions of dollars in public funds were handed over, no questions asked, to Wall Street and a financial elite whose reckless speculation had triggered the crisis in the first place....

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/demo-f18.shtml

@Arch Stanton

I like your posts and greatly respect the fact that you have quite often obviously taken the time to thoroughly research the information you present. How extremely refreshing. And how nice to see someone who appears to be for the most part non-partisan in their views. Keep up the good work and have a pleasant evening.

Touchdownplay - You will be happy to know my figure came from Rush Limbaugh.

That explains a lot. At least we know whose ass you pulled your bogus numbers from.

So they have to bus people from out of state ? are there not enough Tea Party members in state ? what is the rallying cry....."don't allow workers collective barging rights", I thought the Tea Party was about "rights" you know "don't take my gun" "don't make me buy insurance" "don't take away my rights" ??????

This is not about balanced budgets, hell Wisconsin had a $140 million dollar surplus when this Governor took office, he gave it to "business tax cuts", this is about not allowing all workers, union, state, and eventually every facet of workers not having a right to negotiate and/or bargain for anything.

The Wall Street welfare queens and Corporate America love the Tea Party Republicans, after they stole $30 trillion dollars of American peoples wealth, they now want the American people to believe that their wages and benefits have bankrupted the nation, talk about audacious, lets see how many slave worshipers get on those bus's.

A whopping 12% of workers are in a Union.....Where do the ones in the public sector unions get off telling the people that pay their wages what they will and will not do. You work for the people, not the other way around.

Union Membership has been in constant decline since 1955.....The Union Leaders are frantically attempting to hold on to power....

The only job they are trying to preserve is their own.....Without Sucking Union Dues out of their members.....they got nothing.....By the way, they are living much better than the dues payers....sorta like the boss that you love to complain about.

Union = 14.7 million

Non-Union = 123 million or so

"In 2010, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of a union--was 11.9 percent, down from 12.3 percent a year earlier, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number of wage and salary workers be-
longing to unions declined by 612,000 to 14.7 million. In 1983, the first year for
which comparable union data are available, the union membership rate was 20.1 per-
cent, and there were 17.7 million union workers."

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Perspective. The Federal government has said that they WILL NOT bail out the state's budgets. Also, it was reported that congress was working on a bill to allow the states to go into bankruptcy to enable them to get out of these high contract costs. That being said, here we have a state who is addressing it's budget shortfalls and it's called union busting. First, how Wisc. addresses it's budget shortfalls is a state issue confined to Wisc. and none of BO's business. None of anybody's business but theirs. I would guess the majority of the public is either anti-union or indifferent. Since when is it that state legislators walk out rather than vote??? That's what they're elected for. They can't win, so they won't vote---the DNC backs them---BO backs them. Yes, 2012 is looking better all the time.

Let me add this. What would it be like if every time a bill comes up in congress the opposing party just gets up and walks out???? Couldn't get too much done, could you? We're going to elect politicians that vote on what they want to and don't on what they don't. That's disgraceful. When our elected officials can and do this, it's pretty much the end of our system of government as we know it. The Dems OK this??? This is OK?? The REAL issue in all of this is we have a group of politicians who rather than lose a vote walked out. NO, that's not OK anytime, anywhere.

palco..(#2.126).."So they have to bus people from out of state ? are there not enough Tea Party members in state ?"

So, you're OK with the National Unions and Obama's personal political arm "Organizing for America" busing people in from around the country to pump up the number of protestors, but you have a problem with the TEA party folks doing the same ???

Well if it is OK that the Unions see a National importance with what is taking place, then so too the TEA party sees the same thing.....

the old, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" thing....

P.S....in case you didn't get it from my post (#2.127)below yours.... public support for unions is in decline for decades and continues to decline as you read this....but have a nice day....

do not understand the UNION label on all these stories. This is a bill to reduce the single biggest killer of city and state budgets - across the USA. Our own city pays 85% to personnel costs. With our collective bargaining, we are paying a very large amount of personnel costs to former employees. This was a great appeal to bring workers to job many years ago. Not today. We are in such great debt - and the response is to not let future employees pay more for their participation. This is not right.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then your dtown did a poor job of negotiating. Don't blame the workers who are making around 40-50k/year.

It's obvious that the unions and the union people don't care about budgets all they care about is getting more, more, more money and to heck with the rest of the people.

@mike in Delray,

dont forget too, the teachers pulled students out of class, bussed them to go protest on their behalf. there are plenty of yyoutube clips to go around on just how brights the little nuggets were when asked "so why are you here?" most of them didnt know, and at least one didnt evem now who he was protesting against, lol. but thats ok, bring someone's kid into the picture right? TV and radio ads against the bill state "they are trying to put our firefighters, and police out of work". read the bill... they are exsempt from this bill. thing is, at least even tho i dont actually support the TP, lets see how many kids they bring into a grownup discussion to fight for them, because they cant do it themselves. a majority in case YOU didnt notice protesting.... WERE KIDS! so wth right does a kid have defending something they have no say, put not 1 red cent into, and to boot, HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE PROTESTING ABOUT OR WHAT IT MEANS!? serioulsy... this is the liberal term of human shields.....lol.

Wisconsin teachers letting their students out of class to go to the PROTEST and some of the students don't even know what they are attending. I wonder if the teachers gave them "credit" for attending this rally ?

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/02/16/wisconsin-teacher-takes-high-school-students-to-union-protest/

If you look at other videos (one posted below), you notice some of the "sideline" cheerleaders are probably teachers themselves directing the activities of these students at the protest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-O-ngDdKZw

Provided by Governor Scott Walker's office

A full summary of the Governor's budget repair bill is below.

Fiscal Year 2010-11 Budget Adjustment Bill Items

Employee Compensation:

Pension contributions: Currently, state, school district and municipal employees that are members of the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) generally pay little or nothing toward their pensions. The bill would require that employees of WRS employers, and the City and County of Milwaukee contribute 50 percent of the annual pension payment. The payment amount for WRS employees is estimated to be 5.8 percent of salary in 2011.

Health insurance contributions: Currently, state employees on average pay approximately 6 percent of annual health insurance premiums. This bill will require that state employees pay at least 12.6 percent of the average cost of annual premiums. In addition, the bill would require changes to the plan design necessary to reduce current premiums by 5 percent. Local employers participating in the Public Employers Group Health insurance would be prohibited from paying more than 88 percent of the lowest cost plan. The bill would also authorize the Department of Employee Trust Funds to use $28 million of excess balances in reserve accounts for health insurance and pharmacy benefits to reduce health insurance premium costs.

Health insurance cost containment strategies: The bill directs the Department of Employee Trust Funds and the Group Insurance Board to implement health risk assessments and similar programs aimed at participant wellness, collect certain data related to assessing health care provider quality and effectiveness, and verify the status of dependents participating in the state health insurance program. In addition, it modifies the membership of the Group Insurance Board to require that the representative of the Attorney General be an attorney to ensure the board has access to legal advice among its membership.

Pension changes for elected officials and appointees: The bill modifies the pension calculation for elected officials and appointees to be the same as general occupation employees and teachers. Current law requires these positions to pay more and receive a different multiplier for pension calculation than general classification employees. Under the state constitution, this change will be effective for elected officials at the beginning of their next term of office.

Modifications to Wisconsin Retirement System and state health insurance plans: The bill directs the Department of Administration, Office of State Employment Relations and Department of Employee Trust Funds to study and report on possible changes to the Wisconsin Retirement System, including defined contribution plans and longer vesting periods. The three agencies must also study and report on changes to the current state health insurance plans, including health insurance purchasing exchanges, larger purchasing pools, and high-deductible insurance options.

General fund impact – Authorize the Department of Administration Secretary to lapse or transfer from GPR and PR appropriations (excluding PR appropriations to the University of Wisconsin) to the general fund estimated savings of approximately $30 million from implementing these provisions for state employees in the current fiscal year (2010-11). Segregated funds would retain any savings from these measures.

State and Local Government and School District Labor Relations:

Collective bargaining – The bill would make various changes to limit collective bargaining for most public employees to wages. Total wage increases could not exceed a cap based on the consumer price index (CPI) unless approved by referendum. Contracts would be limited to one year and wages would be frozen until the new contract is settled. Collective bargaining units are required to take annual votes to maintain certification as a union. Employers would be prohibited from collecting union dues and members of collective bargaining units would not be required to pay dues. These changes take effect upon the expiration of existing contracts. Local law enforcement and fire employees, and state troopers and inspectors would be exempt from these changes.

Career executive transfers – The bill would allow state employees in the career executive positions to be reassigned between agencies upon agreement of agency heads.

Limited term employees (LTE) – The bill would prohibit LTE's from being eligible for health insurance or participation in the Wisconsin Retirement System.

State employee absences and other work actions – If the Governor has declared a state of emergency, the bill authorizes appointing authorities to terminate any employees that are absent for three days without approval of the employer or any employees that participate in an organized action to stop or slow work.

Quality Health Care Authority – The bill repeals the authority of home health care workers under the Medicaid program to collectively bargain.

Child care labor relations – The bill repeals the authority of family child care workers to collectively bargain with the State.

University of Wisconsin Hospitals and Clinics (UWHC) Board and Authority – The bill repeals collective bargaining for UWHC employees. State positions currently employed by the UWHC Board are eliminated and the incumbents are transferred to the UWHC Authority.

University of Wisconsin faculty and academic staff - The bill repeals the authority of UW faculty and academic staff to collectively bargain.

Debt Restructuring – The bill authorizes the restructuring of principal payments in fiscal year 2010-11 on the state's general obligation bonds. These principal repayments will be paid in future years. Since the state is required to make debt service payments by March 15th, the bill must be enacted by February 25th to allow time to sell the refinancing bonds. This provision will reduce debt service costs by $165 million in fiscal year 2010-11. This savings will help address one-time costs to comply with the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund state Supreme Court decision and make payments under the Minnesota-Wisconsin tax reciprocity program.

Medicaid

Address FY11 Medicaid deficit – Medicaid costs are expected to exceed current GPR appropriations by $153 million. The bill would increase the Medicaid GPR appropriation to address this shortfall.

Authorize DHS to restructure program notwithstanding current law – Medicaid costs have increased dramatically due to the recession and expanded program eligibility. In order to reduce the growth in costs, the bill authorizes the Department of Health Services to make program changes notwithstanding limits in state law related to specific program provisions. The department is expected to develop new approaches on program benefits, eligibility determination and provider cost-effectiveness. The proposed changes will require passive approval of the Joint Committee on Finance before implementation.

Technical correction – Act 28 included language that required unused GPR expenditure authority in the Medicaid GPR appropriation at the end of the biennium to be carried over to the subsequent biennium. The bill repeals this provision in order to ensure unspent funds in Medicaid lapse to the general fund balance.

Aging and Disability Resource Centers (ADRC) – The bill transfers an estimated $3 million in savings in this appropriation to Medicaid. ADRC's are the intake and assessment element of the state's Family Care program.

Corrections – The bill provides $22 million GPR to address shortfalls in the Department of Corrections adult institutions appropriation. These shortfalls are due to health care costs, overtime, and reductions in salary and fringe benefit budgets under Act 28.

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) Funding for Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) – The bill allocates $37 million of excess TANF revenues to increase TANF funding for the EITC from $6.6 million to $43.6 million in fiscal year 2010-11. By increasing TANF funding, GPR funding for the EITC is reduced by a commensurate amount.

Income Augmentation Revenues – Allow the Department of Children and Families and Department of Health Services to utilize $6.5 million of already identified income augmentation revenues to meet fiscal year 2010-11 lapse requirements.

Act 28 Required Lapses by DOA Secretary – Under Act 28, the Department of Administration Secretary is required to lapse or transfer a total of $680 million in 2009-11 from appropriations made to executive branch agencies to the general fund. The bill would reduce this amount by $79 million to ensure the lapses can be met in the next five months as this was ineffectively addressed by the previous administration.

Lapse of Funding from Joint Committee on Finance (JCF) Appropriation – The JCF appropriation includes $4.5 million related to estimated fiscal year 2010-11 implementation costs of 2009 Wisconsin Act 100 (operating while intoxicated enforcement changes). This funding is not anticipated to be needed in fiscal year 2010-11 and the bill lapses these amounts to the general fund balance.

Sale of State Heating Plants – The bill authorizes the Department of Administration to sell state heating plants. The proceeds from any sale, net of remaining debt service, would be deposited in the budget stabilization fund.

Shift Key Cabinet Agency Positions to Unclassified Status – The bill creates unclassified positions for chief legal counsel, public information officer and legislative liaison activities in cabinet agencies. An equivalent number of classified positions are deleted to offset the new unclassified positions. These activities are critical to each cabinet agency's overall mission and should have direct accountability to the agency head.

Provided by Governor Scott Walker's office

A full summary of the Governor's budget repair bill is below.

Fiscal Year 2010-11 Budget Adjustment Bill Items

Employee Compensation:

Pension contributions: Currently, state, school district and municipal employees that are members of the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) generally pay little or nothing toward their pensions. The bill would require that employees of WRS employers, and the City and County of Milwaukee contribute 50 percent of the annual pension payment. The payment amount for WRS employees is estimated to be 5.8 percent of salary in 2011.

Health insurance contributions: Currently, state employees on average pay approximately 6 percent of annual health insurance premiums. This bill will require that state employees pay at least 12.6 percent of the average cost of annual premiums. In addition, the bill would require changes to the plan design necessary to reduce current premiums by 5 percent. Local employers participating in the Public Employers Group Health insurance would be prohibited from paying more than 88 percent of the lowest cost plan. The bill would also authorize the Department of Employee Trust Funds to use $28 million of excess balances in reserve accounts for health insurance and pharmacy benefits to reduce health insurance premium costs.

Health insurance cost containment strategies: The bill directs the Department of Employee Trust Funds and the Group Insurance Board to implement health risk assessments and similar programs aimed at participant wellness, collect certain data related to assessing health care provider quality and effectiveness, and verify the status of dependents participating in the state health insurance program. In addition, it modifies the membership of the Group Insurance Board to require that the representative of the Attorney General be an attorney to ensure the board has access to legal advice among its membership.

Pension changes for elected officials and appointees: The bill modifies the pension calculation for elected officials and appointees to be the same as general occupation employees and teachers. Current law requires these positions to pay more and receive a different multiplier for pension calculation than general classification employees. Under the state constitution, this change will be effective for elected officials at the beginning of their next term of office.

Modifications to Wisconsin Retirement System and state health insurance plans: The bill directs the Department of Administration, Office of State Employment Relations and Department of Employee Trust Funds to study and report on possible changes to the Wisconsin Retirement System, including defined contribution plans and longer vesting periods. The three agencies must also study and report on changes to the current state health insurance plans, including health insurance purchasing exchanges, larger purchasing pools, and high-deductible insurance options.

General fund impact – Authorize the Department of Administration Secretary to lapse or transfer from GPR and PR appropriations (excluding PR appropriations to the University of Wisconsin) to the general fund estimated savings of approximately $30 million from implementing these provisions for state employees in the current fiscal year (2010-11). Segregated funds would retain any savings from these measures.

State and Local Government and School District Labor Relations:

Collective bargaining – The bill would make various changes to limit collective bargaining for most public employees to wages. Total wage increases could not exceed a cap based on the consumer price index (CPI) unless approved by referendum. Contracts would be limited to one year and wages would be frozen until the new contract is settled. Collective bargaining units are required to take annual votes to maintain certification as a union. Employers would be prohibited from collecting union dues and members of collective bargaining units would not be required to pay dues. These changes take effect upon the expiration of existing contracts. Local law enforcement and fire employees, and state troopers and inspectors would be exempt from these changes.

Career executive transfers – The bill would allow state employees in the career executive positions to be reassigned between agencies upon agreement of agency heads.

Limited term employees (LTE) – The bill would prohibit LTE's from being eligible for health insurance or participation in the Wisconsin Retirement System.

State employee absences and other work actions – If the Governor has declared a state of emergency, the bill authorizes appointing authorities to terminate any employees that are absent for three days without approval of the employer or any employees that participate in an organized action to stop or slow work.

Quality Health Care Authority – The bill repeals the authority of home health care workers under the Medicaid program to collectively bargain.

Child care labor relations – The bill repeals the authority of family child care workers to collectively bargain with the State.

University of Wisconsin Hospitals and Clinics (UWHC) Board and Authority – The bill repeals collective bargaining for UWHC employees. State positions currently employed by the UWHC Board are eliminated and the incumbents are transferred to the UWHC Authority.

University of Wisconsin faculty and academic staff - The bill repeals the authority of UW faculty and academic staff to collectively bargain.

Debt Restructuring – The bill authorizes the restructuring of principal payments in fiscal year 2010-11 on the state's general obligation bonds. These principal repayments will be paid in future years. Since the state is required to make debt service payments by March 15th, the bill must be enacted by February 25th to allow time to sell the refinancing bonds. This provision will reduce debt service costs by $165 million in fiscal year 2010-11. This savings will help address one-time costs to comply with the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund state Supreme Court decision and make payments under the Minnesota-Wisconsin tax reciprocity program.

Medicaid

Address FY11 Medicaid deficit – Medicaid costs are expected to exceed current GPR appropriations by $153 million. The bill would increase the Medicaid GPR appropriation to address this shortfall.

Authorize DHS to restructure program notwithstanding current law – Medicaid costs have increased dramatically due to the recession and expanded program eligibility. In order to reduce the growth in costs, the bill authorizes the Department of Health Services to make program changes notwithstanding limits in state law related to specific program provisions. The department is expected to develop new approaches on program benefits, eligibility determination and provider cost-effectiveness. The proposed changes will require passive approval of the Joint Committee on Finance before implementation.

Technical correction – Act 28 included language that required unused GPR expenditure authority in the Medicaid GPR appropriation at the end of the biennium to be carried over to the subsequent biennium. The bill repeals this provision in order to ensure unspent funds in Medicaid lapse to the general fund balance.

Aging and Disability Resource Centers (ADRC) – The bill transfers an estimated $3 million in savings in this appropriation to Medicaid. ADRC's are the intake and assessment element of the state's Family Care program.

Corrections – The bill provides $22 million GPR to address shortfalls in the Department of Corrections adult institutions appropriation. These shortfalls are due to health care costs, overtime, and reductions in salary and fringe benefit budgets under Act 28.

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) Funding for Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) – The bill allocates $37 million of excess TANF revenues to increase TANF funding for the EITC from $6.6 million to $43.6 million in fiscal year 2010-11. By increasing TANF funding, GPR funding for the EITC is reduced by a commensurate amount.

Income Augmentation Revenues – Allow the Department of Children and Families and Department of Health Services to utilize $6.5 million of already identified income augmentation revenues to meet fiscal year 2010-11 lapse requirements.

Act 28 Required Lapses by DOA Secretary – Under Act 28, the Department of Administration Secretary is required to lapse or transfer a total of $680 million in 2009-11 from appropriations made to executive branch agencies to the general fund. The bill would reduce this amount by $79 million to ensure the lapses can be met in the next five months as this was ineffectively addressed by the previous administration.

Lapse of Funding from Joint Committee on Finance (JCF) Appropriation – The JCF appropriation includes $4.5 million related to estimated fiscal year 2010-11 implementation costs of 2009 Wisconsin Act 100 (operating while intoxicated enforcement changes). This funding is not anticipated to be needed in fiscal year 2010-11 and the bill lapses these amounts to the general fund balance.

Sale of State Heating Plants – The bill authorizes the Department of Administration to sell state heating plants. The proceeds from any sale, net of remaining debt service, would be deposited in the budget stabilization fund.

Shift Key Cabinet Agency Positions to Unclassified Status – The bill creates unclassified positions for chief legal counsel, public information officer and legislative liaison activities in cabinet agencies. An equivalent number of classified positions are deleted to offset the new unclassified positions. These activities are critical to each cabinet agency's overall mission and should have direct accountability to the agency head.

ok i have read this, and see nothing at all unreasonable..... outside of teachers, and unions using kids to "stop some dude from doing something" kids have no reason to be there if 1 they have no idea wtf is going on because these so said teachers, cant even teach them the name of the governor, a free get out of class pass to do something they have no clue as to what they are doing? these people want US to pay for there raises, not to mention show support? get a life you union scumbags, shame on you for bringing airheads to a debate that have NO CLUE as to what the debate is about, much less lacking the smarts to comprehend what the word debate means. shame on the democraps for running like little kids to pout rather than debate this in the open.....

and just like we have seen in recent, the union thugs are out, collapsing posts..... whats the matter? truth hurt your wittle feewings?

if you have to resort to collapsing posts, just shows 2 things 1 the person commenting is 110% right, 2 your a jag.

It would seem from what I've read that Wisc. wants to go to a "Right to work" state. That requires a vote by their legislature or a referendum by the public. That might be the best way to approach it? I understand that this is a bill to be voted on and I saw it's provisions. 5.8% retirement contribution, pay 12.6% of health care costs, no collective bargaining, no payroll deduction for union dues. My advice, get the collective bargaining/ dues deduction out of the thing, vote on the rest, and put the "Right to Work" on a public ballot. Those who want to be union can. Those that don't want to be won't.

Meg, My kids have been active in the protests and rallies. They are 17 and 14. They know about this issue inside and out. They know both sides of the issue and have chosen the side of the State workers. Most people in our state feel the same way. The only reason Walker was voted in as Governor is because he ran on lies about a high-speed rail project that would have given the state about 800 million dollars to use toward it's creation. Many who voted for Walker voted based solely on that issue. Most of those people are MORTIFIED about the way he has been treating his role in office. Recall is almost certainly inevitable.

Naw Arch, the t.p's won't ride into town on camels; they have dem dar hogs for a ridin. Of course they'll strap on their bazookas and gun racks too. Maybe strap a few uzi's onto the bellies of their pigs.

Some posters have mentioned, instead of going after unions, which are as American as hog wallers, corn cob pipes and firearms, America should go after corporate welfare, above all else. Why rob the poor to feed the rich when we can slice corporate welfare? But, Americans are so brainwashed; they like sacrificing themselves and the future so the rich pigs, get richer while they slip into poverty without nary a word because of freedoms, democracies, glories and soothing mind balms for the comatose.

Gosh, I thought unions were one of the few voices for the little guy. And, every day, the middle class sinks lower into the poor and poorer quagmire/poverty level. America, the land of the "steal from the poor, give to the rich..." The one freedom Americans do not possess is, a free mind and a free thought. Robbin Hood & tp's riding to Wisconsin...Steal from the poor, give to the rich...

I say go after the pigs and their wallers...

The Billionaire Koch Brothers are hardly middle class nor do they have any interest in helping the middle class. The Koch Brothers are using the republican party to help them further their business interests by having republicans sign pledges to vote against any regulations that may affect them in their oil and energy businesses and you supposedly middle class tea party people are helping the Koch Brothers make more money by deregulating clean air and water standards. You are voting against your own interests while voting for their business interests and you are not getting the big campaign donations out of it that the republican politicians are getting.

The only thing the Tea Party is getting from the republican house is votes on healthcare reform which went no where because the senate wont pass them and the prez wont sign them and now they are passing new abortion laws in the house which will also go nowhere. That is all you are getting Tea Party. You are being used like chumps and you are so blinded by your social conservatism that you can't even see it.

Get Real, What you wrote was your opinion. That's OK, but you don't really know how the majority of the people in your state feel. A recall has to be initiated by petition with the amount of required signatures, THEN, you have to win the recall election. Clinton was impeached----got nowhere. If a lying politician is the criteria, we can get rid of them all. Personally, I agree with what I saw him say. All the taxpayers of Wisc. shouldn't be held at bay over a bunch of upset union workers. You have a 3.5 billion dollar budget shortfall----address that----and be specific.

Hey Mel! Oprah is no pauper and she's a Dem. So is Crow, Springsteen, Streisand, that I know of. I have no idea who the Koch brothers are, could care less, but I know who these people are. There's big bucks on both sides of the fence. Seems to me like what you said applies to both parties.

Get real!-1414791....I think perhaps that is your interpretation of why the Governor and Both Houses of your State legislature went Republican a few months ago...me thinks it's you that needs to get real. Wake up and realize your side got defeated. I'm guessing your 14 and 17 year old were told what both sides of the issue are by you and their striking teachers.....no bias there....but good luck with them....as a parent I would be furious that my kids teachers walked out on the class during school hours, lying by calling in sick, denying the kids their nutritious Michelle Obama designed free lunch.... What message does that send ??
What union are you in ??.... I sure hope none of the cars in your driveway are scab foreign made models.

And don't forget you need to buy the kids a Chevy Volt when/ if they graduate....only $42,000...but don't worry with a range of 100 miles they'll never be more than about 40 miles from home.

Scenario #1 Would you rather live in a society where you paid little if any taxes, had few government services, and could not afford a big screen TV or a vacation to Lake Winniecaca OR A society where you made a livable salary with an old age pension, paid even less tax (cause there would be so many affluent middle class pitching in), and could afford to go to Europe and had a home theater??

Scenario #2 Would you rather pay a fair wage to your employees and not have a second home in Aspen or, bust their union asses and have a vacation home in Aspen AND Key Largo??

From the conservative polling group "We Ask America", it looks like the majority of Wisconsinites oppose Walker's attempt to bust the unions:

As you may know, Gov. Scott Walker has proposed a plan to limit the pay of government workers and teachers, increase their share of the cost of benefits, and strip some public-employ unions of much of their power. We’d like to know if APPROVE or DISAPPROVE of Gov. Walker’s plan.
Approve - 43%
Disapprove 52%

What wasn't included in the question was that, " Otherwise 6,000 workers will have to be laid off. " Are the jobs worth saving by adopting the Governor Plan ???

You can drive the results of any poll by the wording of the question.

I think the result of the poll last November was much clearer. It's the only one that reall counts.

Skrekk, Saw that poll. It also said that 56% said their legislators better get their butt back and vote on the bill----which they'll lose. Also, it was entitled as "union busting", a little leading title isn't it? Brake it down to 5.8% retirement contribution and 12.6% health care costs and see what you get then? The times, they are a changin'. No more free rides. Think HCR might have a little to do with the increase in costs????? SURE, the union members want to pay their share----BS! They don't want to give up anything. If they did, they would.

follow the yellow brick road.....Teachers Unions have one of those Nifty "Friends Of Obama" Healthcare Waivers.....how convenient !!! And they are excluded from the "Cadillac Plan" tax till 2018.....you and I on the otherhand face IRS fines and penalties.

"If they did, they would."...Yup, they would have already.......NOW they want to sit and talk about it.....

"Madison — Gov. Scott Walker on Saturday rejected an overture from a Democratic state senator that public employee unions had agreed to make financial sacrifices contained in the budget-repair bill in return for the right to bargain collectively.

In a statement released by his spokesman, Walker said State Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D-Middleton) "should come to work and debate the bill while doing his job in Madison."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116519738.html

The competing rallies today had an estimated 68,000 opposing the bill, and only 2,000 teabaggers supporting it.....and apparently most of those were bused in from out of state.

skrekk, Numbers protesting are meaningless. It's a Republican Governor, a Republican controlled Senate, and a Republican house, end of story. HCR didn't have the numbers either, but it got passed anyway. This isn't Egypt. If it was, BO would have been out the door a long time ago. WI is one of about 10 states where this thing will continue to happen until it's over. Just check unpaid state debt., budget shortfalls, and UNFUNDED pension funds. The taxpayers of that state WILL pay, somehow, someway. Every citizen in that state will pay something to undo the damage done. The citizens of WI aren't going to sit still and pay their bucks and let Union workers walk on it. What if they just slap a 10% surtax on everyone in the state----EVERYBODY! Want to see Union support fade away?

follow the yellow brick road. - The taxpayers of that state WILL pay, somehow, someway. Every citizen in that state will pay something to undo the damage done.

I'm a small business owner in "that state". The vast majority of the people I know oppose what the Republicans are trying to do. The damage is being done by Walker, not the unions.....Walker created the current crisis by giving away $140 million to big corporations.

Sorry, 140 million doesn't remotely cover the short fall for WI. According ro Comcast.net, WI ranks 21st in state debt at 23.51 billion. I doubt 140 million pushed WI over the edge. Your state's problems and really all state's problems go far deeper than union wages etc. That's only a piece of the pie. Virtually everyone in the country knew that this year would be the year of reckoning for the states. This is only the beginning. That ranking is obtained by the state's total debt and it's percentage of the state's GDP. Number 1 happens to be RI.

skrekk....You and that guy Rachel Maddow are WRONG....

http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/rachel-maddow/rachel-maddow-says-wisconsin-track-have-budget-sur/

There was no surlpus.....

Mike in Delray

In response to your comments to me, yes Union support has been declining since 1980, when Regan's revolution against the middle class started, and the ground work for the destabilization of our economic engine-"destruction of the Industrial and Manufacturing" base of our economy. The next four presidents continued with this mindless destruction and redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top 2% (with G.W.Bush being the ultimate hatchet man).

The issue we face today is not that wages and pensions have put our economy (on the federal and state level) in bankruptcy, its the fact that the welfare queens on wall street (top 10% of wall street banking, hedge funds, investment companies, and rating agencies) committed fraud, embezzlement, and racketeering on the national economic security of this nation, resulting in anywhere from $10-$30 trillion dollars of wealth lost to our nation.

You hear the words "shared sacrifice" who is kidding who, the only sacrifice being made is 98% of middle class, poor, and workingpoor, small business, small and mid size banks. Now the calls for Social Security..a self funded non deficit program, that is owed $2.5-$3 trillion dollars from the government, and is taking a hit because of scarce funding relating to job loss. Where is the shared sacrifice from Wall Street and Corporate America ?, all who in these record profit/bonus times have created "no jobs" shared "no wealth" and seen no "jail time", yet will spend billions on self indulgent bonus's and deregulation, while rewriting history saying America peoples wages and pensions have bankrupted this nation.

You better put a whole lot more salt and pepper on that cover story (lie) to make it digestible.

ltcommander72,

Once again proving that you are NOT a Commander in Command of anything (maybe a video game in your momma's basement where you live.). As real Commanders must consider all Scenarios, Contingencies, etc..

Scenario #3. The Governor lets the State go Bankrupt (stated by President Obama no Bailouts), lays off all Union Workers, Under State Emergency Powers becomes like a Dictator, negotiates from a position of power with the Unions as either take it or leave it (continue to be unemployed); hires non Union Workers at the rates in his Law. Collective Bargaining, fine, then Collective Punishment also, as the numbers of good employees versus the ratio of bad employees forced to be hired by the Unions equals the decrease in their overall ("Collective") Pay and Benefits.

All of you Idealists keep saying "Fair and Decent Living Wage" GOOD UNIONIZE THE US MILITARY. We make far below the Federal Minimum Wage. And do not even start with the US Military Benefits argument, you will lose.

If you want I can continue to prove how uninformed you are and not a Commander by listing more Contingencies (Scenarios).

Stop insulting those of us that earned the title of Commander in the US Military. (higher than the rank of Commander in the USN).

Just_Another_Pragmatist - Democrats buying Union votes??? Really? You don't think the Koch brothers and Corporations didn't buy votes last November?

Unions stand for the middle-class worker and a fair shake, the Koch brothers and other Corporapists don't care about this country or its workers, just more, more, more to them! How does that represent the tax payers and voters?

It's funny you use the word extortion, you're right, that's exactly what the RepubliCONS and their Corporapists pimps are doing to our middle-class!

Read post#1.88.

You might think that the unions are for the working class, nope Historically as part of the "Italian Organized Crime" the Unions were part of the Legit Businesses for the "Italian Organized Crime", they were in it only for their own profits, political influence, and possible takeovers of legitimate businesses (keep them closed, put them out of business, and then buy them cheap). The other "Italian Organized Crime" Legit Business was the start of the US Insurance Corporations, like when arsonist Tommy the Torch sold "Business Insurance", "Home Insurance", etc.. One other example of the Legit Businesses created by the "Italian Organized Crime" was Las Vegas, which was seized by the US Government for Tax Evasion, then sold or contracted out. What goes on in Vegas does not stay in Vegas.

Read posts#1.87 and 1.56 the History of the current US Labor Unions.

When you are a democrat.

And a coward with no convictions or honor.

@Pragmatist

No, the GOP came to the Congressional sessions (as they were elected to do) and used legal, well established methods to block legislation they disagreed with.

The Dems in Wisc are acting like 6 years olds, taking their ball and going home so NO ONE can play.

Just_Another_Pragmatist

We'll call it the "Madison Fillibuster"...get it Repukes? Yeah, remember all the secret holds and other games the RepubliCONS used in the US Senate? That was OK though??? Can't take your own medicine I see...typical!

Typical Democrat here folks..

BUT lets not for get a few simple key facts.. Holds and filibusters are legal practices used in the Democratic process. Used in fact by both parties..

Leaving the state to stop the Democratic process is not right in any shape matter or form. Even better, you wouldnt be praising Republicans for doing this exact same thing. You would be screaming as loud as you could for them to be removed from office.

I am PROUD of those senators, they are doing the right thing for the people and it is the republicans that are trying to ram legislation down throats of the state to break unions. Leave it to republicans (who hate government and did not do anything federally for 2 years) to complain about senators taking a moral stand advocating for workers. The saddest part is that the reason they want the cuts is because they just gave tax breaks to the wealthiest. So far the only sacrifices put forth hit the little guy and help those who already have it all.

Wrong! The Fillibuster is NOT in our laws for the Senate! Look it up! The purpose was to allow more discussion and amendments on bills. Look what it's turned into...the Repukes don't like it, they refuse to discuss it and simply whisper the word Fillibuster and the bill dies a quick death! Why else did they also Fillibuster the bill that would require a 60-vote majority on the first attempt, give them a few more days to discuss the bill, then lower the bar to 57-votes, and then again a few more days and lower to 54-votes...why o why would they not agree to that if they were willing to negotiate?

Morals are not a Republician value. Actually Rebuplicians do beleive in morals, YOU should have morals, the ones they TELL you to have, they don't need any as they are genetically superior to the average American citizen.

Just_Another_Pragmatist

Wrong! The Fillibuster is NOT in our laws for the Senate! Look it up! The purpose was to allow more discussion and amendments on bills. Look what it's turned into...

wow I dont think you can get the facts anymore wrong then you currently have...

The Filibuster IS proceedural laws of the Senate.. So please get your facts straight. The Filiabuster is IN place, so the Majority cannot run over the minority party. ( at least in theory )

Here why dont you read up on the Filibuster before you make an even bigger fool out of yourself...

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/a/filibuster.htm

Funny thing you might learn.. It wasnt the Republicans who started teh Filibuster.. The Republicans Started the " cloture " but it was the Dems who started the Filibuster in 1841.

Its amasing what you learn when you seek out the information. Read the link, you might learn something.

The mere fact that the liberal democrats have fled so that they do not have to actually show their (not their constituents) feelings about the bill demonstrates their absolute cowardice in the face of controversy. Think about it, if the members of the Continental Congress had turned away and run there would be no United States. They do not want to vote because then they will have to accept responsibility for their actions and to do so will probably end their careers regardless of the way they vote. Americans you must stand firm and defend your State and your Nation, we are at a turning point where selecting the wrong direction will determine if there will be a future for the United States and its people.

Its called trying to protect their constituents. Its called the big picture.

This bought and paid for drooling monkey in a suit that Wisconsin has for a governor is playing politics. He's trying to break the strongest organized force for the Democratic party. This is not budget related. He's playing games, and so the Democrats are playing back. They're just being a bit more clever about it. So he can wring his hands, and pout all he wants but if he's going to bust the Union he's going to have to put with listening to a few days of his citizens telling him what a Koch brothers prostitute he is.

Sorry, I'm ready for a fight with these socialist and communist pigs. All they are doing is the 17th goal of the Communist party

Instead of spouting ignorant right wing talking points, if you educated yourself you would know this has nothing to do with communism.

Dear Mr. Tank Carson,

What country are you from? You sure as heck don't live in Wisconsin. Even former Gov Doyle admitted that there was going to be a deficit of 1.5+ billion dollars over the next 2 years. Wake up and stop smoking your wacky weed. No one likes to report that Doyle pushed through a 1 BILLION dollar budget fix 2 years ago. It went through the whole process and was signed in 36 hours. So don't tell me that the democrats don't pull the same stuff.

lib...

Running away and hiding under bedsprings is surely not the equivalent of "taking a moral stand"...it is taking your ball and going home like spoiled little children.

Tank, regardless of what you seem to think, repeating a lie time and time does not suddenly make it true. Wisconsin has not talked surplus for a LONG time. Even our previous administration acknowledged the looming budget gap- why else would a democrat have forced furlough days on his biggest voting block? Well, that and he was too chickensh!t to run for reelection in light of the fiscal crisis he knew was coming in the upcoming budget year.

"Senate rules and the state constitution say absent members can be compelled to appear, but it does not say how."

One thing that should be clear to everyone is that there needs to be laws to allow the immediate dismisal of any elected official who willingly flees their position in order to shut down the government.

This group of Democrats have taken American politics to a new all-time low, even though we thought it wasn't even possible.

When one party refuses to negotiate then they are basically saying "my way or the highway". Guess which option the Democrats chose? They promised to fight and they're fighting. This isn't the way matters should be handled but when no one is negotiating, you often feel forced to resort to measures like walking out.

The sad part is that the cuts the governor is requesting aren't substantial. Public employees covering more of their own health care premiums and pensions is perfectly legitimate. I understand that no one wants to lose more money out of their paycheck but we are facing a moment of austerity and everyone must take cuts (maybe now Walker will repeal the tax cuts he gave out hand over fist).

However, I understand why they want to draw the line at destroying collective bargaining for public employees. There's no reason for it.

The Dems in Wisc are acting like 6 years olds, taking their ball and going home so NO ONE can play.

They are doing exactly what their constituents want them to do. Since when is it a requirement for a politician to show up and be cannon fodder?

If you were a true conservative, you'd be decrying Walker's fascist tactics of sending police to round up law-abiding American citizens who have invoked their right to travel freely.

American for Israel: That list is hilarious. Thanks for posting.

Tin Plated Dictators are no longer restricted to the Third World,...

It's sad that extremist Repub-talibans are trying to be dictators and force their right wing ideology on all of America. They will lie, cheat, commit adultery, or steal to get what they want for their rich friends.

TW-417267: Typically socialist response.

I Believe in Separation Church & State, how about Separation of Union 's & State would be in order. With all the Money that unions take as dues that they use for political were used for there union members perks & benefits that's would eliminate the special interest's and cut some of the spending.

Food for thought

how about seperation of corporation and state.

The Governor of Wisconson gives out 150 Million in Corp. Tax breaks for within the first 5 day of entering office, and then turns to Public Employees to take back $135 Million (Both Figures for the remainder of the current Budget Year). Seems pretty clear where his bread is buttered.

Unions were the 7th, 8th and 9th in the top ten political spenders in November Mid-Terms. The other top ten spots all got there funding from Corporations and spend 98% of that on republican candidates.

Obviously this is an attempt to silence the voice of political opposition to the Republican Agenda. (Your free to say what you want, but Right Wing wants to be sure you can't be heard over their noise)

Shellie there is no connection that you can actually prove. Its all supposition and guess work based on your view.

The AWOL Democrats must return for the vote.

Wisconsin's children are the ones being punished by their childish behavior, including the Teacher's.

If the teachers do not like it, they can quit. There are surely many Substitute teachers who need jobs..

WILL ALL OF YOU STOP COLLAPSING POSTS. I am courteous enough to read all of your posts, gets really annoying having to keep expanding all the collapsed posts, just because you do not want others to see someone else's view point or facts (all sides of the issues). If you do not want to hear all sides of the issues other than your viewpoint, just stay off the internet.

Update from CBS News, February 18, 2011, the Governor has a choice get this Law passed or lay off 5,500 people. Listen to both sides of the argument, then dispute the facts (and not with uniformed emotive opinions).

Walker said he was hired to fill a $3.6 billion budget hole, and that his plan is saving 5,500 state workers' jobs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/18/earlyshow/main20033283.shtml?tag=stack

As far as the History of the US Labor Unions see my post at #1.56 - Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:58 AM HST

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/18/6079091-first-thoughts-upside-down

For those that are too lazy to read the above, History of the US Labor Unions. It was NOT a Repugnant that busted US Labor Unions, it was President FDR, as he suspended US Labor Union Activities prior to WWII, during WWII, this lasted even after he died. His suspension of US Labor Union Activities including authorizing the US Military Police to use Deadly Force against US Labor Union Strikers organized by the "Italian Organized Crime", resulting in the US Military Police machinegunning the US Labor Union Strikers. Go read the rest at the above link.

As far as the US Labor Unions here's a great (self serving) Idea. Unionize us (US Military) so that we can make a "fair and decent living wage". I mean seriously we are "on the job" 24/7/365 while at the Wars calculated by the amount of our pay puts us way below the Federal Minimum Wage.

By the way if we walk off the job, we get the UCMJ thrown at us (Federal Prison). If you walk off the job because you do not like something at a Private Sector Jobs = Fired. Public Servants walk off the jobs and they get cheers of applause. We would like to just walk off the job and come home from the Wars (after years of consecutive tours here (Afghanistan) and Iraq) to get drunk (illegal at Islamic Nations) and laid (illegal at Islamic Nations and UCMJ morality Laws (fraternization (including with locals), adultery, fornication (sex with someone not your spouse), conduct unbecoming of ...., etc.).

I already told all of you that the US Education System is broken, think from a manufacturing stand point, would you buy that defective product. Well you did and now those that made that defective product want more money. From firsthand experience with Public, Private, and International Education Systems I already told all of you (spoonfed) the Solution at other Newsvine Forum (Topics). You think President Obama is sweating bullets about this, his children attend a Private School on the Voucher System.

Gary,

Thank you. Tank clearly doesn't live here or he would know that budget deficit is the biggest reason Doyle decided not to run for re-election. He would also know that BOTH Barrett and Walker were asked when running for Governor how they were going to fix the 3.6 billion dollar deficit they were facing if elected. This information has been in the news here is Wisconsin for over a year now. There has been no sugar coating of that number even by the very liberally biased Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal. I'm not sure what website he's getting the information from, but it's not correct.

Shellie 657180 Special Interest's is in all arena's could be put to better use.

Reliant 150 Million in tax cuts for Business's ,isn't that 150 million in estimated revenue. Probably Could of Giving a 12% Tax Break on dividends instead of 25+% for Investing in Companies in the US & Wisconsin and bump it up to 35% if Company outsources the jobs away.

David:

You speak with "wise tongue".

Good for your comments, re: Collapsed by the Community. I listen to both sides; always. What else would give us a chance to weigh in our decisions and thoughts. The US is a Country of Tolerance.

Let's prove it!

Hawaii

You sound racist....Perhaps not...But it does not sound well when you "make talk like injin"

"...turning tail and running a sound political strategy."

It's a sound political strategy when you hear your own bugle boy playing "retreat".

Hawaii2,

It is best for me to know what is going on in the US, if I ever return from these years of consecutive tours here (Afghanistan, previously consecutive tours for years at Iraq).

I am having second thoughts of returning to the US, as I have been offered Citizenship at other Nations (earned thru the "Spilling Of Blood", being attached to their Military Forces in Combat while a US Military Officer.). As not to be completely uninformed (naive) I know that they (other Nations that offered their Citizenship) may require me to serve in their Military as an Officer (Mandatory Compulsory Military Service "as required").

What worries me is that if by Executive Order we are Ordered to give the Order or receive the Order to use Deadly Force against US Citizens, as to disobey is to be Summarily Executed for Treason. And our families, relatives, etc. will suffer as suspected Co Conspirators to Treason.

As far as "I am courteous enough to read all of your posts". To the poster that posted at page XX, #XXXX. I read yours too, so there is "ALL OF YOUR POSTS". Stop being so immature.

Shelly you wouldn't have much of what your liberal life has if it weren't for corporations. Hmm... I bet a corporation built your computer. I bet a corporations built your tv. I bet a corporation may be controlling your retirement. It is corporations that do research and design, employ people. Your socialist mind is unsustainable. GO to China if you love it so much. Throw away that liberal arts or music degree and get a business degree.

"Obama Care was forced to be what it is by members of BOTH PARTIES who made sure to get their pork, ETC. in the final package. The Health Industry is bankrupting this country, and now we, the working class are being made to pay for it. WHY??"

Actually, the left voted for this, including rinos. Several dems had to be bribed to vote so they could get preferential treatment for their own states.

The entire bill should be scrubbed. Reforms are needed but the bill reformed nothing and increased all medical premiums. The unions (mostly public employees) are the only ones who don't feel the pain, except for those in congress who passed this trash knowing it would not affect themselves.

Bottom line is that the only people this helped were those who are here illegally or never had the gumption to work for a living. It was always about votes for leftists who only want a free ride at the expense of others.

BTW, I don't have health insurance because I cannot afford it. I haven't been employed for 21 months. I don't expect a handout from those who have. That is not their responsibility. Those who think it is are the problem in America, and the rest of the world. Fend for yourselves. Quit expecting handouts. If the best job you can get is a server at McDonalds, there is a reason for that. Look in the mirror and you will see it clearly.

What Bob??

HOUSE:
Yes - 219 democrats

No - 38 democrats and 178 republicans

Senate

Yes - 60 democrats

No - 39 Republicans

RN in Philly

"The Dems are not using a filibuster at all. They have abandoned their posts. They've abandoned the Democratic process, and are trying to prevent an vote by the quorum from taking place. That is the opposite of Democracy."

Most of the dems, not myself included, are a bunch of cry babies when it comes to getting what they want, and what is reasonable fiscal policy. They run and hide when the tough votes come up. They believe they are owed more than the rest of American, when none are owed anything.

Their goal is to get what they can at the expense of everyone else. They don't care if the country falls, because of them. They worship unions because they can't/don't have the skill to do it themselves. And unions worship them because they get $ they don't earn to perpetuate mediocricy for tenior, at the expense of the people who really want to work.

Joe, what are you rambling about? Be specific. I know it is hard for you, but you can do it if you concentrate, unless you are stoned.

Who is going to tell the millions of federal employees that the dole is broke.

Now watch Wisconsin businesses and citizens "escape" to Illinois since taxes, wages, benefits, and rights in Wisconsin will make the short move south across the border to Illinois worth the costs of moving.

David:

With your last paragraph re: my immaturity, you revealed much about yourself. It probably would be best if you did not come back to the United States. The US needs more positive, upbeat citizens who can contribute something to this country. Negativity is a poor attribute when addressing a person. It also violates the NCOH.

David:

Sorry, my paragraph was directed to the wrong person----reread your statement. Thanks for your service in the Military.

Peace.

Hawaii2

Most likely when the Governor tried to send the public employees (State trooper) to haul them back... What an idiot why would any public employee set out on a road trip to hunt these individuals down and bring them back so the individuals needed to screw them out of their retirement.... I'm so sick of hearing about what the GOP is willing to slice and dice without a mention of decreasing their benefit's and their retirement.... What concessions are they willing to make .... That is where the fat needs to be trimmed politicians and their own salaries, w.... When they can demonstrate their willing to reduce their salaries and benefit, then maybe I'll consider the Public Employees....

@safecracker....

holy smokes man! no wonder cali is broke, lol. if someone in cali passes gas, does that qualify for unionship?

as far as things in wisconsin goes i live here, and the unions/dems are already leading with misrepresentin propaganda. on the radio it said firefighters, and police are affected by this bill, and LIES, they are not included, leading onto peoples fears....

with the teaparty getting into this, things might get a little ruff. i dont consider myself a TP supporter, just a common sence supporter, and unions make no sence in todays world, not at this point with the economy in a shambles, and the same ones who cry about it, taking work away from the private sector as far as construction and such goes. dont think so? my last union meeting the union rep boasted how he ran a private roofing company off a job, AFTER they had started. Thats only 1 case, and take a look around you at how many construction outfits are struggling cause the union greases a palm with a supposed under bid on a job.

DOWN WITH UNIONS!!! REBUILD AMERICA!!!

Tank, regardless of what you seem to think, repeating a lie time and time does not suddenly make it true. Wisconsin has not talked surplus for a LONG time.

---------------------

The state budget office announced a budget surplus on Jan 31, 2011 of 124m.

DOWN WITH UNIONS!!! REBUILD AMERICA!!!

----------------------------------------------------

Yeah....get rid of workplace safety, child labor laws and weekends!!! All brought to you by unions.

This is like a game of chess really, The dems made a made to stop things now it is time for the next move. Remind the people this bill was to prevent layoffs and unless they return to vote they will have to start laying 2000 people a week off until the vote happens as the cost cuts must happen one way or the other.

I would start the layoffs with anyone with excessive call ins for being sick in recent weeks regardless of how long they have been on the job.

Where is the outrage from the taxpayers on who is actually PAYING for most of these "protest groups" (Democrat, Republican, Independent, or whatever) to be bussed into Wisconsin ?

Someone in the media needs to have the guts and do some in-depth research into the various "protest organizations" funding for this protest and report the results to the public. If any one of these "protest" organizations are using TAXPAYER MONEY for this purpose, their funding should be terminated immediately.

• Wisconsin....the birthplace of the Progressive movement.
• Wisconsin....the death place of the Progressives movement (and maybe the Democratic Party).

Hawaii2 David: Sorry, my paragraph was directed to the wrong person----reread your statement. Thanks for your service in the Military.

No problem. Seems some of the other posters agree with your first post#6.45.

If you do not hear from me in the next few days, well, sh!t happens. In a few minutes I am leading my Command Team plus one Support Team in a Movement to Contact Mission (we conduct missions just like the other Teams, as Basic Leadership 101, "Lead from the Front"). In 2009, I was shot in the left shoulder by an SVD, one of my junior NCOs (E-6) wasn't so lucky while redirecting his sniper teams with hand signals he was shot and killed while standing next to me. Before I could stop him from using visual signals instead of the tactical comms (radios) he was already dropping to the ground dead. I was patched up by one of my many Team Members trained as Physicians Assistants and stayed with my Command Team with my XO (Executive Officer) in Charge. My senior NCO (CSM) kept telling me, Sir you have nothing to prove, get your arse to Kabul for a break (if you can image a "old school" senior USMC NCO saying that). Pulled my sutures a couple of times while we were conducting US Military Asymmetric Winter Mountain Warfare.

Peace.

You can believe that the first people that want Peace are us (US Military). Especially us old war horses (that would rather be at the stud farm getting drunk and laid.).

The Governor can not claim the right, the elected officals have to vote on it, they could not do that yesterday because all but one donkey ran. Now that was enough to give us all pause. They actually ran to another state. Today school had to be cancelled because why? Oh ya, those dedicated teachers and staff who care so much about their students and quality of education, really care more about 5%

I don't think it's right that employees can vote on whether to have a union at any business or government agency.

Thank you Deep Time. Finally, a voice of reason.

It seems very few people remember American History. Who wants to go back to the days of Carnegie and Mellon? Obviously the governor of Wisconsin!

The corruption you folks accuse the Unions of taking part in is NOTHING compared to the corruption of guys like Andrew Carnegie and Andrew Mellon in the early part of the last Century. This country went through all that BS from unrepresented workers and WE LEARNED VALUABLE LESSONS. Now people want to just discard those lessons and go back to the old ways? C'mon people! Pick up your history books if you forgot what it was like in the 20s and 30s

Why does the wisconsin governor and the state legistlature get to decide if those people can have the right to form a union? Let the people decide! Put it up for a state wide ballot! Let the people decide!!

RN in Philly, The tax payers of Wisconsin did not get a tax break - corporations and off shore multinationals did. These entities do not create jobs - they shrink them or send them overseas. The state of wisconsin projected a budget surplus for 2012 before the tax break give away to special interests. Wisconsin was doing just fine (and amazingly in this economy). So my question to you - when corporations like AIG, GE and Exxon Mobile paid "NO" taxes in 2011 and the good workers of Wisconsin did - how much more do we give these corporations before you feel that all is right with the world and the universe is in balance?

ValhallaPhil - do you see how your exact statement can be said about Corporate donations to Republicans?

Probably not - if you're a Republican.

SJC-1437429

Please read #2.63 so that you know what type of mob is assembling!

The Governor can not claim the right, the elected officals have to vote on it, they could not do that yesterday because all but one donkey ran.

A right is a right. They can't be voted in to or out of existence.

I'm reading a lot of sour grapes here because of a clever political strategy that has kept a terrible bill from being rammed through. If the House or Senate Republicans could have done this over health care reform, you would have been cheering them on.

This is the fundamental problem with ideologues of the right or left: Because they are convinced of the moral superiority and necessity of their beliefs, they feel no obligation to deal with their opponents in good faith. After all, the opposition is morally inferior and doesn't merit honorable treatment. But when the tables are turned, the same gang displays outrage because they're under attack by a dangerous, immoral entity that has no right to use the same approach as the forces of good. A plague on both your houses.

Collective bargaining is a privilege granted by law, not a right granted by the constitution or anything else.

"Collective bargaining is a privilege granted by law, not a right granted by the constitution or anything else."

That's right - and Walker needs to OBEY the law, NOT break it.

LOL. That's funny!

Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act (1935), also known as the Wagner Act, established the right of employees to collective bargaining. A conservative Supreme Court upheld the NLRA in 1937 (i.e., found that it was constitutional).

That same year, President Roosevelt stated that "The right to bargain collectively is at the bottom of social justice for the worker, as well as the sensible conduct of business affairs. The denial or observance of this right means the difference between despotism and democracy."

In 1950, President Truman said that "In the case of labor, free collective bargaining must be protected and encouraged. Collective bargaining is not only a fundamental economic freedom for labor. It is also a strengthening and stabilizing influence for our whole economy."

In 1955, President Eisenhower said that "there will be contest over the sharing of the benefits of production; and so we have the right to strike and to argue all night, when necessary, in collective bargaining sessions."

In 1962, President Kennedy affirmed the right to bargain collectively in an executive order.

President Nixon in 1969: "This administration is deeply committed to the institution of free collective bargaining."

President Ford in 1975: "Our people cannot live on islands of self-interest. We must build bridges and communicate our agreements as well as our disagreements. Only then can we honestly solve the Nation's problems. And those problems are tremendous. Those problems need our total dedication as we move ahead. One of the longest and sturdiest bridges in this land is collective bargaining."

Whatever you might think, statute, Supreme Court precedent, and at least six presidents -- three from each party -- see it otherwise.

Collective bargaining is a right.

Citizen K,

THANKS.

The 495,000.000 residents of this state who foot the bill are NOT represented at the table when the 300,000 state demand higher wages and benefits while we are losing jobs to other states

Wow Suzy, when did the state of Winsconsin get a larger population than the entire US?

Word of advice, next time try and figure out which person when elected is actually going to represent your interests.

The taxpayers are not the workers involved. The workers involved are paid by the taxpayers. That makes the taxpayers technically their boss. The taxpayers have had enough of paying high property taxes to fund exorbitant union benefits that are no where close to being in line with the private sector. It appears that the politicians in Wisconsin are listening...to the taxpayers, not the union workers. They campaigned on these changes, and won. Now they are making good on their promises. They are doing their job as advertised.

Aren't rights supposed to apply equally to all citizens across the board? Approximately 40% of the states in our union do not have collective bargaining agreements with their public employees- how could this be if it's the citizen's God given right? More than 80% of the public sector employees are not unionized. How can this be if it is our right?

Collective bargaining laws are no different than any other laws- when they do not serve the public's best interest, the must be changed. when 300,000 are holding 5,000,000 hostage for their benefits, it is no longer in the public's best interest.

The bill the Governor has proposed does not meet the public's best interest. Rick Scott wants to do the same thing in Florida. I want to teach in Florida once I am certified. I don't want the GOP to turn my prospective job into one where I have no rights. Collective bargaining is a right I will forfeit over my dead body.

Wade, why should a minority of state workers be able to negotiate a benefits package the tax payers of the state cannot afford to pay? This is what we are arguing. WI public employees will retain the right to negotiate pay- if they want a raise larger than the cost of living increase, they can put it to the taxpayers for a vote- since we pay the bill, isn't this fair? WI public employees are not losing ANY benefits- they are retaining their pensions, retaining their Cadillac health insurance plans, retaining their vacation and sick time benefits including end of contract payouts, GAINING grievance processes in municipalities that don't already have them in place, GAINING back furlough days (and the average 3% of their salaries that they lost as a result) that were forced on them by the previous administration to close the budget gap, GAINING the right to decide as individuals whether they want to pay union dues or not, GAINING the right to vote annually whether they wish to remain organized as a union or not and eliminating massive layoffs in the process.

We have lost businesses because of high tax rates. We continually lose residents because of high income and property tax rates (in many cases retirees can't afford to stay in their homes even though they have no mortgage because our property tax rates are so high- I have a 900sq foot house on an average sized city lot, our mortgage is around $600 and our property tax escrow is about $250). The companies that have left our state have left thousands out of work. The companies that have stayed have made cuts in pay and benefits in addition to massive layoffs. Our tax base continually shrinks and our public employees, particularly the teachers union, continue to give themselves raises and demand more and more from their benefits. What do you propose we do to afford this?