neversurrender,

Spot on! I used to live there. I thought this glorious day would never come. Maybe there is hope for the rest of the country?

Sven: I once lived and learned in Madison too. I guess that's where we received our "education" in more ways than one. If they don't like it, fire them! They should thank God that they don't live in Bahrain or Libya. Have a nice day and eat some WI cheese.

Futyler - Great points.

All hard working tax payers in the private sector have had to contribute to 401K's and health care, as well as begin subject to employment at will., for decades. And none of us have automatic wage increases tied to anything.

Why should teachers and workers in the public sector (hard working as they may be) have it any different.

We love you Wisconsin!

The posters above me are obviously not economists. As much as people like to bitch at unionized workers they are getting pensions because they are not being paid a market wage. If you actually had to pay teachers what they would get for having a college degree (including a normal share of employer benefits and 401k) then you'd lose more money than you are now. A study was done recently in California to support this. A teacher in NJ (one of the highest paid states for teachers) after 6 years of teaching makes about $50k a year in salary paying 1.5% of their benefits in. An accountant in NJ with the same amount of experience makes about $110+bonus(about 10k a year) paying in about $500 a month in benefits. The math is such that a teacher is underpaid based upon the market.

Teachers only work 9 months out of the year.

Basedrum...for one thing you are comparing based on time spent on education alone...they are two totally separate industries. That's like saying a biochemical engineer should be on an equal pay scale to a high school guidance counselor.

Also, the teacher works 31 weeks a year, gets tenure, can retire with pension after 20 years at 80% of salary...not to mention I suspect that study took one of the lower paid teaching positions and compared it to a higher paid accountant. I know plenty of accountants that aren't making $110k a year.

On top of that, the study was done in California, a state that is going bankrupt and doesn't have a clue how to manage public sector pay.

Lastly, your statement that unionized workers are not being paid a market wage is exactly incorrect. They are getting more in 8 out of 10 professions.

USA Today is a legitimate newssource wouldn't you say?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

Perhaps a great day for the state of Wisconsin..., and may it be contagious...

eachers only work 9 months out of the year.

the good ones work far more than that...

Also, the teacher works 31 weeks a year, gets tenure, can retire with pension after 20 years at 80% of salary

none of that is true. They work far more than 31 weeks out of the year (just because the kids aren't in during the summer doesn't mean all the teachers just do nothing), and they DO NOT get to retire after 20 years as 80% salary.

So do the math. Even if that's the case the most a teach in my town can make is $103k after getting their doctorate and working more than 25 years on the job.

Even annualizing that value you get $135k. What do you think someone who is already making 110k will be making at that point 25 years into a business?

Ummm...Joe, that "study" is literally my household with myself as the accountant and my wife as the teacher in NJ. She is actually highly paid because she was able to start at step 4 rather than step 1 in her school district to match another districts offer when she graduated college.

And just to be clear this is equating a degree in accounting with a degree in mathematics. I love accounting but I even know that its much much more difficult getting a degree in Math.

And yet you dismiss a study done based upon numbers (not opinions) because it was done in california? A state that by your assertion is probably paying their public employees more than they should be? I would think that would lend more validity to the findings.

WinkWink thinks this is a great day for the American public. Time to end the stranglehold the unions have on society!!!

Trumpka never will allow this law to stand wait for his next "visit" to the White House

basedrum777...

Sorry, pal - but I believe your math is fuzzy and wrong. There are very few teachers in NJ who only make $50K per year. Most make closer to $100k. However, giving you the benefit of doubt, how about the fact that you cannot fire a teacher and the only recourse is to put them in a "rubber" room and let them watch soaps all day and continue to pay them.

Also, for the 36+ years that I worked, I had to put in a minimum of 5% of my salary into my pension. I also had to put in any contributions to my deferred comp. My employer did not match a penny for many, many years in either. Why do teachers deserve better than what I had to do.

Just Saying...

Actually I think we are missing the more broad point of this situation. A court will (probably) never allow this law to stand as is. You can't restrict the ability for people to unionize.

"The story around the world is the rush to democracy," said Sen. Bob Jauch, D-Poplar. "The story in Wisconsin is the end of the democratic process."

And there's the proof. Democrats seem to think "democracy" is when they get their way, not when the elected officials vote yes or no with a majority winning.

If you actually had to pay teachers what they would get for having a college degree (including a normal share of employer benefits and 401k) then you'd lose more money than you are now.

Anyone who entered that field "for the money" went in with the wrong reasons. There's lots of college graduates working at Denny's.

Unions, and particularly public employees unions have had way too much power for way too long. This is a great step in the right direction and a great place to start cutting the fat. Hopefully this will be highly contagious.

I hope this sets a precedent for other states! I like in California and we are being choked to death by unions!

Our idiot politicians are bought and paid for by the government service unions, and most of the laws drafted in the state are tailored to benefit the unions at the expense of the taxpayers! And we pay some of the highest taxes in the Nation!

Unions need to be put in check! They are necessary when dealing with a large company that could potentially abuse its workers, but if they get too big and too powerful, they become a malignant tumor and begin destroying the host(s) they depend on at the expense of the workers.

Look no further at Airlines, Automotive, Aerospace, Entertainment and Manufacturing to see how unions have driven a ton of business out of the country and reduced the productivity of a lot of more sympathetic or less wealthy companies capable of outsourcing the (in some instances) grossly overpriced labor.

Personally, I don't think that public employees should be allowed to unionize at all...the state is already governed by voters and representatives, CBA's and unionization is redundant and is a conflict of interest against the voters of the state

basedrum777 : This law isn't restricting the people's ability to unionize. Read the article.

For your benefit, since you did not read the article:

Under Walker's plan, state employees' share of pension and health care costs would go up by an average of 8 percent.

Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.

Another part of that quote that is very intersting is that these people would be paid in accordance with this "index", which means it's probably based on some average... and more importantly if they want raises beyond this index - as a group - it has to come as a descision from the voters. That's a unique step that eliminates potential party loyalty of unions to Democrats.

Otherwise, when your state's budget isn't balanced... something has to give. This is only a part of their budget shortfall... only 300 million of some 3.6 billion. I think that for what they are trying to pass... requiring these public employees to put more money towards their own benefits instead of "taxpayers"... that it's a hell of a lot better than simply firing 6,000 teachers. After all... education is important.

Real substance to criticizing this move will come in the future and what other areas they target to make up the remaining 3.3 billion dollars they are missing.

In my state... or rather Commonwealth, they slashed out a lot of public programs to cover the gap... people weren't happy about it, but the budget got balanced and I think everybody is happy about that. They need to give up on the whining... be grateful somebody is willing to work a solution to help them keep their jobs.

Unions have become the tyrannical monsters that the old corporations once were. They wield their power and use their resources to crush otherwise sound economic proposals that don't favor them. Unfortunately, it's just another sign of the times that we can longer find a middle ground for constructive bargaining, instead of being forced to extreme measures. The Unions brought this upon themselves because the writing has been on the wall for decades. The police and firefighters unions must be included as well!

Sorry unions, but you're now in a world where you can no longer have your cake and eat it too!

basedrum777, at 110K with only 5 years experience you are a very well paid accountant. Most accountants (even ones in Jersey) don't even come close to that in their careers. You must work for an investment bank in north Jersey or something.

Well, Wisconsin will soon be a Democratic state.

I live in Milwaukee, nice way to go Walker and thank you republicans. I hope we all will enjoy what's coming up, Next is to get rid of Minimum wages, get rid of the labor laws then companies can pay you as low as they want maybe $2 per hour like in China I mean $2 per day and no companies will send jobs over sea. I don't care because I have enough money and it actually gonna save me money. It is a win for WI and America HEHEHEHE.

There was a time where the workers needed a voice but that time has passed and I agree Unions are a big problem, with threats of work stoppage to get their way is extortion plain and simple, and I'm a DEMOCRAT .. not all democrats favor unions!

Beware of what you ask for. You are shhoting at people doing jobs for the ingrateful public. In my humble opinion, teachers should make 3 to 4 times what they are now making. Kids and their parents are A-holes.
Take away one of the only good points to the job and nobody will do it.

Someone on this post mentioned the un-employed workers will jump at the job. Think about this.... what are we going to be getting? Most of the teachers now have master's degrees.

Teachers are needed and unappreciated, this will kill the profession.

I am a 21 year member of a union that is affiliated with the AFL-CIO. A small, but growing group of members like me have been advocating with our unions for years to work with local governments to help solve the fiscal problems and not make them worse.

1. We realize that if we get everything we want our taxes go up just like everyone else.

2. For every dollar a Democrat gives a union, they take two back in taxes.

3. Unless we get the state, and federal budgets under control our pensions mean nothing. Uncontrolled spending leads to massive inflation and massive inflation makes our pensions and savings worthless.

The only thing my union has done for me for over the years is take nearly 15 thousand in union dues from me. Had I been able to keep this money in an account, with compounding interest over the years I would have a nice pot of money. Instead, my dues were used in part to promote democrat candidates and bail out bad employees who should have been fired long ago.

My union agressively fought the state when it switched all state employees from a defined benifit to a defined contribution (401k) style retirement years ago. In hindsite, that switch to a 401k has kept my state from an all but certian bankruptsy in the future which.... would have ruined the pensions for all those retired, and in the old system.

Good for WI. They are doing what they need to do to protect the taxpayers, AND state workers. By shutting down the schools they are enraging countless parents working multiple jobs who now have to take time off work (lose money) so that the union can throw a fit like a bunch of entitled babies. YOU ARE MAKING IT WORSE FELLOW UNION MEMBERS! wake up and see your union leadership for who they really are DEMOCRATIC goons!

Teachers only work 9 months out of the year.

And they have a choice to take their salary on a nine month cycle or on an 12 month cycle. If they choose the 9 month plan, they take home more each month but have to fend for themselves over the summer. If they take the 12 month plan they get less each month, with the extra being used to stretch over the summer months. Either way the salary is the same.

Now then, as for those nine months of work, if you haven't been in a public classroom recently you have no idea how difficult the task of teachers has become. The students are, by and large, disrespectful, lazy and rude. There is very little that the teacher or the administration can do to impose serious consequences on students for disruptive behavior besides send them to detention centers, which they consider to be a vacation from class.

The parents don't support the teachers because almost every time you have a problem with a child and attempt to contact a parent they are either unavailable (after intentionally changing their phone number to avoid calls about their nightmare kid) or if you do manage to get someone on the line the first response is always "Well what did you do to get my kid in trouble?" and second, "What do expect me to do?" How about discipline your kid and teach them some proper respect?

Most of the disruptive behavior and negative attitude is a result of kids being placed in classes such as freshman Algebra, (the lowest level math class we are allowed to offer), which they are woefully unprepared for. The kids don't know their basic multiplication facts, they add and subtract by counting on their fingers, and I'm supposed to teach them algebra? And then, when they don't understand it, it's because I'm an ineffective teacher who's tenure should be revoked?

Instead of putting so much unreasonable pressure on teachers to manage a nightmarish classroom of disruptive students who don't care and aren't interested in learning because they know they'll be automatically promoted to the next grade no matter what, how about we end social promotion policies which keep moving these kids through the system when they haven't even mastered basic skills?

Seriously! The first thing this corporate shill (Governor) did in office was give large corporations massive tax breaks. Why does this all sound familiar! According to several independent sources what had been essentially budget "neutrality" become a short fall!!! Guess who is making up the difference - working Americans. But that isn't the only reason why you will see this trend going Nation wide - the Republican's are going after the collective bargaining of "all" state and federal workers because they have traditionally supported the Democratic Party. This is POLITICS
dressed up as fiscal austerity (Carl Rove said as much - the only honest thing he has ever said)! Corporations will in the end be the only entities that benefit from Citizens United and armies of lobbyists. Wake up people - in the end they will privatize everything including the police and the fire department. Your house will burn if you missed a payment and Black Water will be the local constabulary. You think I'm joking - when it is all done and said America will have the look and feel of a some science fiction movie where morally bankrupt and yes overtly evil corporations are the government and run everything! Are economy was tanked by Republican deregulation and Corporate greed and now there using the outcome as a pretext for going after American workers!

'Scuse me, I live in NJ. Depending on where in the state and what union, you could be talking $42K or $62 to start. Could be 0 they have to pay in for benefits or it could be 5%. Ten years ago, my nephew-in-law in northern NJ was $78K and his wife (also a teacher) was $72K. Each had only been hired into their districts for a couple of years. 0 for benefits. 9 months a year. He was sucking the system dry for free master's degree, and later his doctorate for free thru another state's system.

It used to be that engineers were likely to be the highest paid coming straight out of college, it changed over to teachers several years ago. The teachers beat out what was once an average of college grads at $36K/year.

So here I sit in the private sector (yes, had college), barely hitting $35K for a full year and paying what amounts to 20% for my benefits.

So, let's get rid of the unbelievable union benefits (extorted), fix the wage scale, gov't workers have to contribute toward benefits. Before we even do that, we should get rid of all the excess administrators. Example, one of my local middle schools of 900 students has 3 vice principals, one for each grade. Dump 2 and save at least $250K a year.

So people, wake up and talk with your neighbors. Each of us has a story to tell and info to share.

The interesting dilemma here is that the parasites that have been feeding off of the host's resources are starting to get too big and requisitioning too many resources.

Just like viruses and bacteria in the human body. There are some organisms that are able to operate symbiotically with the host. But it's a delicate balance.

Well, in the case of the government, the host is dying. Unions and corporations are now consuming too many of the host's resources (i.e. taxpayer wealth and the middle class).

Unions seek not the employment and safety of their workers but only to sustain the power of the union over their host company/government.

Corporations seek ever-greater handouts and even more lax regulations. Considering that over 50% of the Fortune 500 companies pay less than half of the effective corporate tax rate is just the tip of the iceberg. The SCOTUS-Citizens United and corporate personhood decisions are the beginning of the end for public representation and what's left of a fair election process.

We are rapidly approaching the grand crescendo that is the current US.

I figure in about 100 years, people will be so fed up by the situation that a massive reboot of the US government and it's representatives will occur. It will either look like the French Revolution or India gaining freedom from the British.

Lord knows how long the reboot will take however. Feudalism took centuries to end...I cringe at the thought of how long a corporate oligarchy will last

Unions do not work for the workers anymore they are an instrument for politicians to get support from union members and their dues, even many of them do not agree, how much money from unions go to support corrupts politicians to get in power , this mob of fat socialist do not care about how much money ( our money ) the government has to spend giving privileges to government workers , that we private employee do not have. Pass the Bill.

Seriously? . . . No Really?!

I live in Cali too, and if you think BOTH parties are not bought and paid for, then you need to read your name again. Democrats are bought and paid for by unions who push for pensions that we can not afford, Republicans are bought and paid for by Corporations who would gladly poison an entire community if it increased their profits. Pick your poison.

Do we have a problem with unions? Yes, the pension plans will probably bankrupt the state. Something needs to be done. Does that mean I am willing to elect a Republican who wants to eliminate the EPA so that corporations can pollute our beaches even more? HELL NO. I happen to enjoy swimming and surfing in the ocean.

And you can not blame unions for outsourcing, there were plenty of PRIVATE (non-union) businesses here in Cali that outsourced thousands of jobs. Even if you eliminate all unions, the outsourced labor is still cheaper. Remember, it all comes down to profits.

Both parties have their dark sides. We need to find a middle ground. BTW . . . I am a liberal who voted for a Republican governor.

Rodney, you make some good points. Glad to see someone gets it. I wonder if other members realize how they have been bled over the years by their own unions, because it's just another tax. It's privately run, but just another bureaucracy with occasional ties to the mob.

Rodney, thank you, some of know that there are many unionized workers who are thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, they're too afraid to say it due to backlash from their union and fellow workers.

Collective bargaining is one thing (and HR depts like it because it's one or two CBAs vs. individual agreements), but the unions suck everybody dry.

skelm wrote;

Teachers only work 9 months out of the year

And they are paid for nine months out of the year, with the payments made across twelve months. The nine months that teachers work include evening after evening of creating lesson plans and grading papers, not to mention the endless worry about students who are sick or not performing up to ability. Try marrying a teacher: It will open your eyes.

Hopefully the people won't fold when the unionist (socialist) continue blackmailing the to get their way. I'm going to be taxed out of my house soon due to the high taxes which currently just under 70% goes to the schools. If they think that what Governor Walker is so unfair then quit and go into the private sector where you have to work and perform for your monies and you get less than half the benefits.

Walker for five more terms!

Union bashing is popular, but the level of Wisconsin eliminating it is dumb. And it is perfect that the opening post mentions Arizona, a state of the stupid when it comes to dealing with problems.

Again, you can in fact, blame the Fed for not dealing with problems. Unions have become bloated. Those of us who live in NJ are well familiar with the overpaid status of teachers and financial crisis. The difference, if I don't say so myself, is that the governor here is much more intelligent in the way he is dealing with it. Unions should never be eliminated, mainly because it makes no difference to 'eliminate' unions. At its most fundamental level, a union is simply a group of people that refuses to work as a negotiating tool. You can cry 'illegal' all you want...when you don't have workers show up, it really doesn't mean that you can get the job done.

Let's take an example: Reagan with the Air Traffic Controllers. Now, by the way, Reagan was absolutely right in firing all those workers. However, they were able to be replaced, though it wasn't easy. When it comes to a state of teachers, there is a number that you can reach in which kids simply couldn't go to school. Whether you get enough teachers to walk out depends on what kind of deal they are getting. Ultimately, its a union whether you call it that or not.

Anyway, trying to wrap this up: Unions have too much negotiating power, and that is what has made taxpayers angry. However, in any state with common sense, power has been pulled away from the unions by public education on abusive union tactics and having a backup plan for workers on strike. Perfect example: NYC's MTA union. Last time they had a strike, they bankrupted themselves and went right back to work because they weren't willing to deal with going to jail. If they were, they would have went to jail, but probably forced the city to capitulate. Obviously, there was a line they weren't willing to cross, and they haven't raised a fuss since. Transit is different fromteaching, but both are necessiteis in one way or another.

mikey mike, Do not blame the parents for all of this. If the government (including school administration) would stay out of child raising then teachers would not have disrespectful BRATS in classrooms. The teachers in the state that I raised my children were not allowed (by school policy) to discipline children, even tho, the state law said they could. I had to drive 28 miles one way from work to correct my child for misbehaving in class. Because, school policy stated the teacher could not. When I snatched my 6' 16 year old off the floor and made him sit in his desk the teacher warned me I could be charged with abuse. When I asked my son why he did it he said, because he could and there was nothing the teacher could do about it. So DON'T BLAME THE PARENTS,!!!

I've never been in a Union, but my husband has although it wasn't his choice. If he wanted the job, he had to be in the Union. Nice scam, eh?

Yes, historically unions had a place, but now with all the laws protecting workers rights they are nothing but organizations of intimidation and corruption.

Florida Teacher,

I agree with you 100%. What a sad day for America and Democracy.

You show me one good teacher and I can show you 10 that are there just because of the union and not because they are good. 90% of the problem in the school system is because the teachers go to the union and say we won't do this to teach the children, we can't do this to teach the childern, this isn't the way to teach the children. Thats why we don't have READING, WRITING, MATH taught properly anymore, because it might just show that a teacher is incapable of doing the job so they have the union to back them to keep them in the job. Now you will have to do your job and for the money you are paid no more will you be able to hold the children of this country hostiage so you can make more money! Try Walmart!

Good for you WI! Unions are only there as a political machine and to protect poor workers. Hopefully this catches on for other states.

basedrum777, you can't say math teachers are underpaid because accountants make more. Your apple to orange comparison doesn't make sense.

Actually I think we are missing the more broad point of this situation. A court will (probably) never allow this law to stand as is. You can't restrict the ability for people to unionize.

True, you can't restrict the ability of people to unionize, but that's not what's happening here. You can do what Governor Walker is doing (assuming the Republican controlled state legislature passes it) which is diminish the power of those unions.

This is what happens when you run out of "Other Peoples Money". Govenment employees are a joke. They expect everything for free from other people. I get raises if i do a good job and make the company money, not for just being employed by the government no matter what kind of job im doing or how the economy is. Their is no way i could get a raise with this economy if my company was struggling. I have to pay for my own insurance and retirement plan. But these government employees want someone else to pay for theirs and they dont just want it they expect it. Then they run around crying and whinning when they dont get it.

Where I live its really a joke the government has their retirement set up where they actually get paid more for retiring than they do when they were working. All paid for by the taxpayer and every election they want to raise our taxes to pay for it. Well this is just the beginning, their is only so much OPM to go around. People have had enough especially with this economy when some people cant afford to pay for their own retirement or insurance but have to pay for governments.......

For those who support this - can someone explain to me why Police, State Police and Fire Depts were excluded?

If republicans were really serious about the budget, and that was ALL this was about - this would most definitely apply to them as well.

Im a little curious as to reasoning they were excluded.

They want to take the vote but no Democrat Lawmaker will show up.How Professional?

There is no reason for state employees to be represented by collective bargaining agreements. Unions served their purpose in the days of packing houses and steel mills. Protecting uneducated employees from greedy employers and unsafe working conditions was necessary 75 years ago.

College educated teachers and state workers only use unions to extort ever increasing salaries and benefits from the rest of us WHO PAY FOR THEIR SALARIES AND BENEFITS!!!!

Congratulations Wisconsin. Once again you are the first. This is change we can believe in and change that is coming to all Federal, State, and municipal workers.

I respect everything that unions did in the early part of the 20^th century to make working conditions and wages livable, but so many unions have become power hungry demanding more and more unsustainable benefits for their members. Not just public sector unions, but private sector as well. My uncle is a retired union member (UAW). He has an 8^th grade education, worked the line all his life, and told me stories of all the goofing off they used to do on the job. I have a business degree and work 60+ hours a week and have to make decisions that can affect millions of dollars and peoples livelihoods, but my fairly good salary for this is still $5,000/year less than my Uncle's pension pays him and he has health benefits for life too. Ever wonder why cars are so expensive? Here's one of the reasons.

Just for the record, the average salary of those affected by Governor Walker's proposal is around $55,000, which is a very livable salary here in Wisconsin. From everything I'm hearing, this is slightly below the average that private sector teachers make here in Wisconsin, but the private sector benefits package doesn't even come anywhere even remotely close to the benefits packaged that they receive. I wish I had exact numbers to quote, but I do know a teacher that retired at 55, and was earning $4100/month from her pension and has a great health package. I think teachers should be well compensated, but I just don't see how the current compensation levels are sustainable.

I don't agree with most of Walkers politics, and I certainly don't agree with the heavy-handed way he approached this or the fact that he exempted the three unions that supported him, but many of us Wisconsinites voted for him because he demonstrated that he was willing to make the hard decisions that needed to be made. Asking teachers to pay a small portion of their health package and pension is in no way an unreasonable request, and far better for everyone than the alternative which was laying off 12,000 of them. MSNBC and other outlets are focusing on the crowds raising their voice against this in Madison, but the silent majority of us believe that these cuts need to happen.

Teachers do not HAVE to join the National Education Association, nor their respective state association, or their local.

They can opt out of that. But as a teacher I will tell you that if there is no place at the table for negotiating salary, etc., then your schools will be stacked with unqualified people who will work for whatever a state's governor deems fair.

You can bitch and moan all you want. It is not unions. They protect rights, such as time breaks, safe working conditions, etc.

Hell - although I will have to suffer along with the rest of you, I think I would like to laugh my ass off when the Republicans tank the economy again and screw up our schools, making this a third world nation.

And how did all this get out of hand? When a black man was elected President. And we seem to think we should tell other countries how wonderful our democracy is. What a joke.

This quote from Einstein suits most of you: There are two things that are infinite: human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not sure about the universe.

Einstein had it right. The spread of stupidity is rampant, and there is no cure.

This whole mess was precipitated by the Republican Party and unfettered corporate greed and now they are using this as a pretext for going after people (Working Americans) who did not cause this problem in the first place but will in the end suffer the most because of it. Politically it is brilliant - BLAME THE VICTIM! And when they do away with collective bargaining Nation wide and for all time then only the corporations will benefit from Citizens United!!!!!!

if we don't learn from history before unions, companies would just shot employees for organizing used pinkertan to do it. just like the miner down south guess who shot them for the company the goverment.

looks like we will be doing it all over again. walker going to use the national guard how will he pay for them.

I bet you Gov Walker will be getting sized up for a Kevlar Suit if this thing passes.

bubba "You show me one good teacher and I can show you 10 that are there just because of the union and not because they are good."

thats funny, because i've only ever worked private sector jobs...and this holds true there as well. not because of unions, but because of crappy management.

and thats what it boils down to in public sector work, I know that they can be fired - it's just that power tends to corrupt, and those in power tend not to want to fire the people they like.

Working with the boss' daughter, who is worthless and plays on facebook all day...who shows up at 8:20 daily, takes a lunch and leaves at 4:30...and took off 35 days last year (she only gets 16)...i know im speaking the truth. If her dad didnt work her, she most likely would have been fired long time ago.

But inept management keeps her employed...same with many public sector workers.

You should be demanding better management, and at least with public sector (unlike private) thats something we can demand, and expect, and achieve if we collectively cared about it.

Jessica-1170252

It has to start somewhere......

R U 1 "I don't agree with most of Walkers politics, and I certainly don't agree with the heavy-handed way he approached this or the fact that he exempted the three unions that supported him, but many of us Wisconsinites voted for him because he demonstrated that he was willing to make the hard decisions that needed to be made."

I think you just contradicted yourself there and didn't realize it. He clearly didnt make the hard decision if he chose to exclude Police, State Police and Fire from this...ya know, the folks who supported him.

Just politics as usual, union busting is more accurate.

They are the only threat to Citizens United, because they were the only "force" that could rival a corporations ability to spend on campaigns...and this is the first step in killing that.

*golf clap

We've are officially entering FACISM.

Stealth - it's akin to me cutting my netflix bill and saying im "cutting back on spending"

But hey, I started somewhere, right?

I have a college degree in education, but I used it for only 3 yrs before I realized that I could never make any money, and had to find a new career. (By the way I was NEVER in a public school system) I am now closer to retirement than college, and make less than $15 an hour. Do I think government workers whould pay more for their pensions and insurence? yes. But can someone please explain to me how not being able to collectively bargain is going to SAVE the State of Wisconsin one thin dime. If this is a purely budget bill, then only things that save money should be in there.

I realize that many of you think unions are bad. But even though there are laws in place now to cement the rights the unions won for all of us, don't you realize that those are just that? LAWS. Laws can be changed anytime someone has the votes to do it. That is exactly what is happening here in Wisconsin right now. The state passed a law in 1959 giving the workers the right to collectively bargain. Now they want to pass a new law taking that same right away. If it can be done here and now with collective bargaining, why can it not be done with minimum wage, 40 hour work week, worker safety and anything else they can think of.

By the way I am not now, and never have been a member of a union, but I am afraid of what our country will be like when they are allowed to break all the unions.

@ Thoughts from Cali

Considering how many union CBA's have been tailored to safeguard pensions, healthcare and effectively tenure their senior members at the expense of the junior ones, I'd say that unions play a fairly major role in the incentive of a company to outsource, or a state to go bankrupt!

But indeed, many corporations are also deserving of a significant share of the blame! If you notice my entire post, you'll see that I have a firm contempt for both Left and Right...neither party is on the side of the American people!

Left wants the illegal alien (and sympathiser) vote (by abusing the 14th amendment) to bypass moderate Democrats trying to protect themselves from the awful externalities of rampant illegal immigration. While I agree with some of the Democrat's social policies with regard to a non-secular government and personal responsibility, and think that the Democrats have a better grasp on regulation and fiscal matters, I despise the handout-agendas that would allow many to be on welfare in perpetuity and others to exploit our country's generocity who have no desire to be American.

The Right wants to abuse the poor and middle classes to effectively fuel the corporate equivalent of feudalism, and in order to partly do that, they too take a lax stance on illegal immigration, lest they mobilize the Latino demographic to start voting against them (or at all for that matter). I can't stand the Republican party's social conservative, government-invasion of privacy and legislation of morality, and I recognize that while I like some of the GOP's economic agendas, they never follow them, and it's all just lipservice to increase corporate welfare/handouts.

I grew up in the barrio in Southern California. I have first hand knowledge and experiences for what it's like to see neighborhoods go down hill because of unfettered illegal immigration. Schools becoming crowded and underfunded because almost no one is paying property taxes. Hospitals in the area closing their emergency units because over 20% of the people coming in don't pay their bills, the crime, etc etc etc.

To anyone sympathetic to illegal immigrants, I highly recommend you move to Pacoima, Arleta, Sylmar, Panorama City, or East LA or the Inland Empire. That is what happens to the neighborhoods!

We need to get rid of as much government as posible they dont contribute or produce anything to the economy all they do is add to the deficate. Until we get rid of all this liberal coruption in the school systems teachers should be the first to get cuts with a bad economy....

Jessica - i beleive the logic of fire/police/Emergency being exempt is those are public saftey issues. People of all walks of life tend to not like public saftey being messed with. That is just my hypothesis though, i dont know if that is the hard line being towed.

Thanks to unionism and socialism, America has not produced a single SLR camera for over 50 years, no consumer electronic goods for almost the same period, and no athetic shoes for over twenty years. Once upon a time, America had a healthy auto industry. Today, Chrysler, twice bankrupt, is owned by Italian Fiat. GM, risen from the dead, is limping toward a recovery at half of its former self. Ford is mired in debt trying to stay competitive. America can thank the UAW for the remaining auto manufacturing factories. American garment workers are not so lucky. Nearly all apparels sold in America are made in Asia, Mexico, or Caribbean.

Unionism and socialism have also formed a new breed of gangsterism with Big Government. The gangsterism has bought corruptable politicians who pushed through anti-business regulations that ultimately cause the unemployment of millions of low-skilled laborers whose skill can not be compensated at minimum wage plus benefits. To make things worse, excessive regulations and high taxes levied by Big Government to support more social programs are additional disincentives to domestic manufacturing.

Run by gangsterism, America is no longer a land of the free but more akin to the former USSR.

Just so I understand this correctly: Companies should have the right to the first amendment and be allowed to give as much money as they want to the political process without disclosing who they are. And workers should not have collective bargaining power to make their lives better.

I sure hope the CEO's and the multi-millionaires treat us fairly this time!

Citizen K

My eyes are wide open thank you very much. My husband works 6 days a week, 10 hours a day and doesn't make much more than a teacher. In fact, if you take into account the pensions and insurance plans, he makes far less because he does not have a pension and we pay for 60% of our own insurance. He has worked for the same company for 30 years and will not be able to retire with a pension, nor do they offer a 401k, we've had to do it all on our own and guess what? WE HAVE. On top of that we worked our butts off to send our children to private school and still paid taxes to the public schools!

And answer this question - why can a private school provide a far superior education for almost half the cost of a public shool? Do you think the over the top benefits have something to do with that?

Why is it that Obama ran away from the voucher program like a cat from a bathtub? Because he knows that given the opportunity of private vs public, the private will win out everytime, which is the way it should be.

I would say the overwhelming majority of teachers DO care about their students and quality of work they do. I see a lot of issue with the systems..that include the school boards, teachers, and communities... that act as road blocks to sound strategies in education.

I alsobelieve the unions could care less about the the students or the communities and as such give full support to the State of Wisconsin in passing this legislation. The union isn't being taken away.. just much of the power they have acquired over the years is and its being given back to the people.

Nice Job WI!

I work in the timber industry and ive had to deal with my kids coming home from public school telling me what teachers are saying about me in school. They sit their and tell complete lies to the kids at school and they dont get in trouble for it. Ive talked to pricipals and they say their not suppose to be doing that but yet nothing is ever done about it because i get it every year from atleast one teacher.

Ive been called a murder of the forest, Im destroying the environment, we kill every animal in sight if we can. Last year my son was told for every tree i cut down 5 deer or animals are killed. Hes been told we are suppose to replant 5 trees for everyone cut but they never replant anything. They say we are going to run out of air to breath if this is not stopped.

This is all a bunch of crap they can get a way with teaching this to kids in schools with no facts what so ever. My kids dont buy any of it and actually got sent to the office for disputing it with one of the teachers. But kids that dont know any better by not having parents or family in the bussiness are just getting brainwashed by all these lies......

A few more thoughts from a union perspective:

Police and Fire were exempted from this regulation because the State can not allow them to strike, so they must be represented. However, their contracts will be based upon the wage scales of the other state workers, so it really doesn't change much by exempting them from this regulation, and it prevents them by law and contract from striking.

(q) Another tid-bit. Want to know why the unions supported Obama's Health care reform when 99.8% of full time union members already have access to quality health care?

(a) Because HCR forces everyone to purchase health care, and employers to provide it or pay a penalty. A union shop that bids a contract to "build a school" is at a disadvantage against a non-union shop that will always bid the job lower, because the non-union shop has lower pay and benefits. This is simply another cost passed down to the taxpayer as a result of HCR. Your future property taxes will be higher for the bonds you approve due to HCR...wait and see.

@skelmbc - Very nice example! Why don't we all try working hard to acquire our pieces of the American dream vs. paying into a group of lobbyists who are demanding they deserve MORE.

Great job of taking ownership of your freedom.

I bet you Gov Walker will be getting sized up for a Kevlar Suit if this thing passes.

So are we to take this as some sort of threat of violence from the left, the unions, the teachers, or all three if they have to take a decrease in pay? This is very interesting. I thought it was just the right wing nutjobs that threatened to shoot people.

Amazing, just amazing.

Wisconsin teachers letting their students out of class to go to the PROTEST and some of the students don't even know what they are attending. I wonder if the teachers gave them "credit" for attending this rally ?

• http://weaselzippers.us/2011/02/16/wisconsin-teacher-takes-high-school-students-to-union-protest/

If you look at other videos (one posted below), you notice some of the "sideline" cheerleaders are probably teachers themselves directing the activities of these students at the protest.

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-O-ngDdKZw

Our educational system is certainly down the tubes, but what the hey, this is the birthplace of Progressive-ism.

15,000 ? You do realize that would not even fill one end zone section of Lambeau Field. Kinda weak for a blue state. Ah, we all miss the 60's when the Left knew how to protest. Remember Chicago, Daily,bashing some heads, the good ol'days.

And what about the children? All those teachers denying all those children an education. What about the poor children who now will go hungry without their Michelle Obama breakfast, lunch, and dinners? If their parents are forced to feed them they might get fat !

Unions are killing Wisconsin children !

Hey, this is fun acting like a Democrat.

I don't see a lot of intelligent comments on this article.

Teachers don't need a union to collectively not show up for work. They just don't show up. Republicans in Wisconsin will get this bill passed. The problem is, it will probably be reversed and this group of Repubs will lose their jobs. Democrats will once again take WI.

Personally, I don't see why WI doesn't take a hint from here in NJ. You don't have to eliminate teachers unions. You simply have to cut the budget. If they want to strike over it, they'll lose because the public isn't on their side. They'll then get paid what they are supposed to, instead of some bloated mess. Wisconsin Republicans and Democrats seem to want to get a lot of attention paid to their egos, and in this case, it has given the Democrats a chance to be popular.

My Step Mother is a retired High School English Teacher for the State of California. Not only that she also served as President of the California Teachers Association.

She worked 9 months out of the year. However during the nine months that she did work, she had a portion of her salery held back and receive that portion for the three months that school was out.

I can't believe so many of you "don't get" why this bill in on the floor. Over the past several years, many taxpayers have either lost jobs, or have less income than they did 3 years ago. Yet, these same people are supposed to continue to pay for Public sector Union increased wages and benefits. Many states are strapped for money due to the downturn. It is about the money, it is not there, yet the Unions demand that their members continue to receive just as much as before. Where does the Union think the state is going to get the money?

Teachers should no longer be allowed to be Unionized. It is totally irresponsible to have a "sick-out." This is an extremely bad example to the children they teach. It is time for the Unions to go, they are now more a negative influence than a positive influence in America.

Seems most here are not differentiating between Private Sector Unions and Public Sector Unions and speaking of Unions in general. Big difference folks. These private sector unions are way out of hand and the teacher's union is high on the list. Gov. Cuomo...are you taking notes?

unions have long out-lived their usefulness. Be gone with yourselves!

Joe, "Also, the teacher works 31 weeks a year, gets tenure, can retire with pension after 20 years at 80% of salary...not to mention I suspect that study took one of the lower paid teaching positions and compared it to a higher paid accountant. I know plenty of accountants that aren't making $110k a year."

====

.....Just to add, I have almost 5 years as an accountant with my company, and I make less than $40K/yr (I also have an MBA, but after being forced out of my job at age 56, I had to take what I could get, I was lucky to get this). I was a taxpreparer for HR Block for several years, and prepared returns for educators with over 6 figure incomes (no, of course not all teachers make that much, but it is not as draconian as some people make it sound, there were others who did quite well, one guy drove up in his BMV convertible roadster).

....Asking public employees/teachers to contribute a small percentage to their pensions and health care is not unreasonable, I cannot sympathize with their reaction to it. I would love to contribute to my pension plan, but my company doesn't have one. My wife contributes a large % to her health care premiums, but luckliy she has one, because my company also does not provide one of those as well.

....Finally, since Illinois (where I have the misfortune to live, but I do have retirement property in WI) is the closest state to Madison WI, their wayward legislators probably headed on down to Springfield, where they probably fit right in, the public employee and teachers unions are strangling Illinois.

the unemployed workers will jump at the job

Great. Get rid of all the teachers and let the children learn from the chronically unemployed. What better way to learn valuable job skills.

If you think education is expensive, try illiteracy.

Unions had their place and time,we can no longer afford them. Firemen, Policemen, State-troopers are no more important than any other job. People choose their field to work in, and shouldn't be exempt from this vote. No Union employee should be exempt!!! It's only pandering for money and votes during election time. The unions bosses are glorified bouncers. Have you ever watched how a union goes about trying to unionize a workplace? It is shameful with their strong arm tactics.

Let people vote each year if they want to be in a union or not!!! We can't afford them anymore.

SHAME ON THE DEMOCRATS, THE REPUBLICANS NEVER PICKED UP AND LEFT THE FLOOR. SHAME ON OBAMA

those who can.....do

those who can't.....teach

those who can't teach......teach gym

Republican lemmings. The income of the middle class has gone down at exactly the same time as unions have decreased in membership and corporate profits have gone up. Time after time management said no to raises, so instead unions bargained for benefits and greater security, healthcare, something all American workers want, indeed had, not so long ago before all the mega tax cuts. It is also true that the private sector paid more, typically. Now corporations have eliminated pensions, eliminated unions, said no to minimum wages, and completely disrespected the labor of middle class Americans. Public unions have been holding the line in their communities. They have given back, they have not been receiving exorbitant wages. Their contracts have been negotiated with Republican administrations as well as Dem's. Corporations long ago raided pensions they claimed were "overfunded", now no one except the ultra fat cats get them. So now there exists contracts which the Republicans want overturned because of corporate ideology. Republican created depression, no problem, blame unions, Democrats, minorities, everyday working Americans, everyone except the almighty Corporation and Wall Street. Why do Republicans hate Public Unions? because they're the only jobs they can't outsource. No problem, eliminate public unions, eliminate government, keep the tax cuts for the wealthy, give them free reign, we all know how well they create jobs here. They wanted this depression so workers remain cowed.

Precisely the way the Liberals do each time something doesn't go their way. They either sue to overturn the election, smear the Right for doing the right thing and trying to stop the Liberals and Communists running the DNC, or leave the State as they did in OK a few years ago, to avoid the vote and show exactly how spineless they really are.

Can't act individually, they run in groups as the Rats they are, acting their way in your face, and killing America behind your backs. It's about time someone stood up against the Unions, especially the Public sector with the NEA and Obama's bigtime buddies the SEIU draining what's left after the Liberal rape of our collective Treasuries.

Only good Union is a Bankrupt Union, although they are all moraly Bankrupt to begin with. Whatsa matta, Dems, 'fraid of Louie and his friends with those lead pipes?

Now then, as for those nine months of work, if you haven't been in a public classroom recently you have no idea how difficult the task of teachers has become. The students are, by and large, disrespectful, lazy and rude.

Oh poor teachers! Ever work a customer service position? Try retail? Waitress? How about construction? Hey, I'm sorry you poor teachers don't have a classroom full of pretty, attentive students that worship every word. Welcome to the real world.

On top of that, this isn't just about teachers. What about all the janitorial staff for the state, the road workers, parks, etc?

Yes, all the liberal press is reporting is the "poor overworked teacher". Nothing about the road construction worker that took 6 breaks from leaning on his shovel for 8 hours to go have a smoke because those are "union rules". Nothing about the pension double dippers. Noo....we'll just put the "poor children that will lose so much' up in the spotlight and ignore the rest of it.

By the way, I am disgusted by the liberal press and their selective newsreporting (not defending Fox either....it would be nice to see someone actually report rather than twist everything).

This is heavy handed as regards removing all negotiating rights. It's also heavy handed if there are exempted unions and really heavy handed if corporations are given tax breaks and not expected to contribute to the welfare of the state. Having said that, I don't see where unionized folks should rely on tax payer largesse in order for them to live better than the average tax payer. They should contribute to their pension and healthcare funds. If they are protesting because they have to pay their fair share then shame on them.

sorry Basedrum...any "study" or "report" from Kookifornia is questionable at best

the bill does not take away their right to negotiate "salary"...but does address the states inability to continue to "freestyle" on all the benefits....THEY ARE BROKE...albeit not as broke as liberal kingdoms such as Kookifornia and New Dork, but broke just the same.

Try marrying a teacher: It will open your eyes.

Marry one? Hell, I won't even date one.

Who knew that public employees are now the new rich that do not want to pay their fair share or sacrifice for the sake of the country even as they receive hugh bonuses in the millions? LOL

Who knew that the public employees are the cause of the housing and financial markets/wall street crash or implosion? LOL

Many folks who are posting are just shill, trolls, lobbiests etc for the republicans/ blue dog democrats/ tea party/wall street/corporations etc.

These folks said the same thing during 2008 through 2009 regarding the auto industry..... blaming the unions and employees saying that the union employees were being paid too much, working too little and earning over 75 thousand dollars per year 'working' on the line..... which was shown to not be true. The auto industry has since recovered and making a profit and have paid back most of the loans.

They said the same about the housing market and the financial market/wall street implosion which pulled down the global economy, blaming it on 'poor' people who were supposed to have bought homes they could not afford..... when it was not true... Some folks said the 'poor folk' comment was supposed to be code word for 'black folks'. LOL

Who knew that there were that many black.... er.....poor folks in the USA buying homes when the financial implosion was due to corporate greed and mis-management.

Now these folks are trying to do the old divide and conquer thing again.... trying to set the middle class folks against each other/blaming the unions or trying to put a wedge between the private sector against the public sector while they toddle off merrily to the bank with their millions in bonuses.

There is even a divide and conquer thing going on trying to pit the old against the young with regards to social security/ medicare/retirement age etc. They even said social security was insolvent -when it isn't and there is a surplus. The impression is that Medicare is free.... when it isn't. Retirees must pay premiums, deductibles and co pays just like any other insurance.

One could say that once the unions are gone/gotten rid of, this country will truly be the United States of Corporate America..... Hmmm

Well folks are seeing first hand that elections have consequences..... LOL

Before anyone jumps on the Republicans are greedy band wagon, read the entire law that has been proposed. It does not break the unions, it does not deny the right of any employee group to unionize or belong to a union. It does strip the collective bargaining power away from the public employee's union with the exception public safety sectors. It is not reducing levels of coverage for retirement or health care but it is requiring that public employees pay a larger contribution to those benefits. No one is losing their health care or pension here, they are simply being asked to contribute more to it. In essence they aren't going to lose that money because they will get it back when they retire or leave public service. Federal law on pensions and 401ks govern that. 25,000 people are an extremely small percentage of the state's population and from watching the reports, most of those were college age young adults. The action taken by the democrats in protest is in essence that of the child that decides to take his ball and go home when he doesn't get his way. The state of Wisconsin should not be running a deficit and it is only in recent years where it has ballooned to the proportions it is today. Most public employees by virtue of their benefits and in most cases their pay scale far out earn those with comparable positions in the private sector whether those positions outside public service are unionized or not.

actually it was Nancy Pelosi that said "we won and they can just get over it".

I just hope all of the union haters will be very happy when they and their children are working seven days a week for fifty cents a day. After all this is the only way we can compete with foreign labor.

There is a simple solution to this. Eliminate the Republicans, then the problem is solved.

mygirl - they did not remove the right to negotiate salary

The big three they removed was

• negotiate health care benefits
• mandatory enrollment in the unions
• negotiate retirement benefits - which are outrageous.
• teachers have the right to drop union membership

These expenses are out of control and unless capped will multiply faster than wages.

BTW: The Democrats leaving to prevent the vote made a bad choice of Unions over taxpayers.

How soon you forget, the republicrap majority in congress did exactly the thing you so cleverly blame on OUR PRESIDENT. People like you should just shut up and let others drag your sorry asp into the future. Idiots are guaranteed the ability to breed AND LISTEN TO GLENN BECK but there is no guarantee intelligent thought can be derived from such idiots. I say congratulations to people that FINALLY understand WHAT REPUBLICRAP CORPORATE THEOLOGY is all about. Their desire is to force people to work for nothing while they collect the rewards for that slave labor. As so many people look upon our military and all the sacrifice shared by millions due to their combined pain, I look at the pain and sacrifice shared by the millions of people in the labor force that endured the disgrace inflicted upon them by their employers during the fight for union representation. Without unions there would be no OVERTIME PAY, VACATION PAY, HOSPITALIZATION BENEFITS, INSURANCE BENEFITS, AND MANY MANY OTHER GAINS PEOPLE TODAY TAKE FOR GRANTED. Just let the corporate boss do as he pleases, you wouldn't be able to buy a loaf of bread with a day's wages. I said after the stealing of the presidency THE FIRST TIME, I would not vote republicrap again, well now I can say NEVER WILL I VOTE REPUBLICRAP, AND I RESERVE THAT NEVER AS BEING THE FIRST TIME USED.

DB: Thank you for the clairification. I found it interesting to read that union organizers from other states were bussing in protesters to fill the ranks. Also interesting to note that teachers were dragging students along to fill the ranks especially when some of the students interviewed stated that they weren't sure what the protests were all about.

Forwhatistsworth ie, not much: Your statement about eliminating republicans is very telling. Apparently you approve of a one party system similar to that of communist nations and other totalitarian regimes.

mygirl1 And you seem to favor fascism. So aren't we both just overjoyed.

mygirl1.... (glad you're not) On second thought, maybe you do favor a 2 party system. Republicans, and Tea Baggers.

I suppose you might accept a Democrat, as long as their vote was worthless huh?

mygirl1..... And why do we have votes? If not to eliminate those who we believe will not represent us? How many votes do you think it would take to eliminate all of those corporate puppets? 357? 38? I would bet that 44 or 45 would work just fine.

As dandy dan used to say "turn out the lights ,the party is over "

good bye unions....and good riddance !

U A W !

HIDE THE WEED !

BZe1

"Many folks who are posting are just"...you can say it...go ahead...liberal Jethro's

ForWhatitsWorth: seems I touched a nerve...good

DB Akron...... The Union employees ARE taxpayers. Get it?

This Governor is just trying to pull a Ronald McDonald Reagan. Chip, chip, chip.......... send the signal. LOOK WHAT WE DID! What a POS.

Ward Churchill

Billy blow-job

UAW !

STASH THE WEED ! THEY FINALLY FIGURED OUT WHY WE BUILD CRAP !

Really ?

A sexual predator supporter ,you really want to go there ?

CHRYSLER UAW WORKERS ,HIDE THE BONGS ,THEY ARE ON TO US !

Where I've gone and am willing to go, I doubt you have what it takes kraft.

As far as political ploys, this is one of the oldest tricks in the book.

As a young legislator and Whig Party leader, even Abe Lincoln himslef and others tried to escape out a window just before a vote to prevent a quorum when Illinois' State Capitol was Vandalia.

As he matured into a more seasoned political figure, he admitted to regretting that move and I'm sure these Democrats will when they look back on it.

Time to come back and do you job. As much as you don't like it, you have to vote on this piece of legislation or work to have it changed.

Running away from a problem never makes it go away.

A small portions of taxpayers. Evan at peak union membership they never represented much over 35% of the workforce, today they are less than 20% of the workforce.

You shouldn't favore one small portion over the whole - especially when their benefits and retirement are 2 - 3 times better than than the average person.

No.... But it sure slows it down. There are many ways to play when the game is rigged. And you'll notice that Lincoln got into the White House after he did that.

What kind of benefits do you think that the top 2% of the (And I use the term lightly.) "taxpayers" get?

Why would someone be jealous that some other middle class worker gets a few crumbs more than they do? The only reason I can think of aside from someone being a puppet for the "upper class", would be if that person was a total loser and just wanted to bring others down to their level.

I notice that the cowards didn't include the police and fire departments ....YET. I guess they think they may need them shortly.

Awww hell

PROGRESSIVES have been running from responsibility since 1967

Nothing new !

UAW i told you to wait at least a week !

HIDE THE WEED !

I am amazed by all the yelling, this is what the man promised when he ran and I along with a majority of people in Wisconsin voted for him.

So what is the problem? The unions have ran our state to the brink of bankruptcy, all that the people are asked to to pay half what the public worker pays for health care (I believe they pay 1/4 now) and to pay for half the amount that the average worker pays for their retirement fund. Also, since employees of the state do work for the people of the state, then to get raises they need to get it through a vote.

Wow, how radical. Maybe the rest of the states better follow or they will be bankrupt, and I do not feel that the U.S. government should bail them out. If their unions wish to be greedy and bankrupt the state, then deal with the consequences.

DB Akron, Good point about the tax payers!! Also I no longer have no respect for the Teachers union for 2 reasons. First, the union president said that if Walkker get his way, Kids are going to suffer! OMG when did kids become a bargaining chip for the union!!! Second, My granddaughter skip school to protest for the teacher union, after a teacher asked her to do it for her, over 300 kids out of 1800 kids did this today, in Green Bay Wisconsin. Teachers sending kids to protest for the teachers union is wrong!! Talk about a Hitler propaganda style move!!! That teacher needs to be fired and the union needs to be removed for interfering with the education of a child!!! Now she is grounded for a week and she thinks that mom and dad are being disrespectful for not doing what a teacher asked her to do!!! Sounds like the teacher union has our children UNION BRAIN WASHED, SHAME ON YOU TEACHERS AND YOUR DISRESPECTFUL UNION, time to replace them all!!! Our tax dollars at work promoting the teachers union in school is totally unacceptable!!!! GO WALKKER!!!!!

If "Benefits" are a "RIGHT," then where are my RIGHTS? Under what law did benefits become a right to only union members? Sounds like a class action law suit against the unions for discrimination!! Oh the union privileges over the command peasants!!!

Ah, the demoNo party strikes again. Let the unions bankrupt the states and the fed, then see how things go from there.

Sure, everyone wants to be paid more. Unfortunately, those doingthe most whining likely aren't worth what they are paid now. Why? Because they spend too much time whining instead of working.

b dune

"will you show link where Obama said verbatum "now shut up and go sit in the back"?"

dune, the actual quote is “They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-gop-%E2%80%98they-can-come-for-the-ride-but-they-have-to-sit-in-back/

I didn't read the whole article, but I read enough to comment. Maybe the unions have gotten a bad name, but then again, how would you like to work in a Right To Work state? California tried it for 1 year and then it was reversed for good reason. Do you work 10 hours overtime in a week with a holiday and get only 2 hours overtime pay? Do you work 10 hours overtime in a week and only get time and 1/2 for your work? Do you work on a holiday and get standard overtime for it? What work situation pays doubletime? Say goodbye to doubletime. For me, that means I lose a few thousand dollars a year. Are you willing to give up that much because business intrests make the law?

Bob Randall......... That's YOU isn't it?

Right to work states don't seem to be having the level of economic problems that pro-union states appear to be having. Unions serve a purpose but when the unions essentially control the business then there are problems. What about unions running businesses into the ground with demands that are impossible to meet? Also, when union demands are essentially paid for by taxpayers then there is a problem, especially when the taxpayers are broke.

Forwhateveryou may think its worth: Relax little buddy, you're safe, this is the internet, we're typing here and the only thing of yours that I'll touch is my keyboard in response to your silliness.

Oh yes, And no accumulation of vacation time. If you don't take a vacation this year, do you get the money for the unused time or get the time passed over to the next year? Not here. Use it or lose it. Not 1 hour accumulated from one year to the next. No worker protections in pay matters.

mygirl........ What would you know about "Right to work states"? Most of them are in the south. What has taken place in the last several decades, since corporate greed has out trumped American pride, is big business moved from union states, to the "right to work" states of the south. There, they set up shop for a time to eliminate the unions that were attached to them when they made the move. Once they got that accomplished most of them headed a little bit farther south. To Mexico and left the poor ignorant, "I ain't wantn' no dern' union.", southerners in the dust with the rest. And as far as southern states being broke, there are several that have had to shut their state governments down because they ran out of money. They have not given state employees a raise in 3 years. So don't spew your lies and sing the praises about the "right to work" states.

OH...... And by the way. Don't worry about me being safe. You just need to look over your own shoulder "little buddy".

Joe-755363

Oh poor teachers! Ever work a customer service position? Try retail? Waitress? How about construction? Hey, I'm sorry you poor teachers don't have a classroom full of pretty, attentive students that worship every word. Welcome to the real world.

On top of that, this isn't just about teachers. What about all the janitorial staff for the state, the road workers, parks, etc?

Yes, all the liberal press is reporting is the "poor overworked teacher". Nothing about the road construction worker that took 6 breaks from leaning on his shovel for 8 hours to go have a smoke because those are "union rules". Nothing about the pension double dippers. Noo....we'll just put the "poor children that will lose so much' up in the spotlight and ignore the rest of it.

By the way, I am disgusted by the liberal press and their selective newsreporting (not defending Fox either....it would be nice to see someone actually report rather than twist everything).

Wow. So you are comparing teacher's work to retail, customer service or waitress jobs? How much do you think it cost to get a BSN or Masters degree? Last time I checked, the jobs you posted don't even require a high school diploma. It's like comparing doctors to pizza delivery guy. I bet you would be glad if teacher's salaries drop down to walmart style minimum wages eh? The teacher positions might be easy to fill now....... but what happens when the economy recovers? Good luck trying to fill positions that only pay minimum wage that requires a BSN or Masters.

No wonder our public education been going down the tubes for years. People want world class education on shoe string budget.

TheTruth......Aren't some of the Southern states right to work states? I haven't read anywhere where they are well flushed in the state pockets and isn't there very high unemployment (and forclosures) in some areas that top above 15%.Hmmm

Thought I heard that Texas is deep in the hole deficit wise, like billions...... I wonder why? Hmmmmm

Thought I read/heard somewhere that when the gov took over the state, Wisconsin was budget neutral, and that the deficit is due to his immediate giving tax breaks to wealthy folks and corporations -even some out of state corps- that is running the state into this deficit. Hmmm

This move seem to be patterned off the move done by NJ Gov Whittman Gov and the present one Christie. Hmmm

If the Wisconsin gov thought he was so in the right why did he have to put the National Guards on alert? Why the bully tatic?

It appears that this whole matter is about breaking the Unions by the repubs on behalf of the corps etc........ But why?

Does anyone really believe that doing away with unions in this country will set this country on a sound financial path, really stop the jobs outsourcing, lower the cost of living, make higher education more affordable, open more trades schools, make the workplace safer or stop the slide of the workers wage, or increase the minimum wage, increase job security in the private sector etc in this country?

The Truth...

Posting your entire psycho-babble response in bold makes you appear desperate for someone to listen to you. Face it...you libs are losing ground and it simply kills you. I love it! Watching libs squirm is so very refreshing!

hmmm...I see threats

BZe1......... Exactly right! The only reason that Texas is doing a bit better is because the companies build most of their factories along the southern edge of Texas. Then they let the Mexican workers come over the border on work permits. They even have their children schooled in Texas as part of an agreement with Mexico for cheap labor. "Right to work" is just another way to say "Do or Die".

I see an Egyptian Sun on the rise here in the states.

Forwhatever: Seems we're diametrically opposite ideologically (no, really?) What disturbs me about absolute certainty is that often it is wrong. Your original statement about republicans needing to be gone as a party is absurd and one sided.

Democrats aren't the sine qua non of 'party of the common man' anymore than republicans are the party of big business. Americans have been shafted for years by members of BOTH parties. The divisions are for show and to keep people bickering so that they don't realize how badly they've been and are being shafted.

There is a fiscal crisis happening in this country. Both sides have good ideas and both sides have crappy ideas. Pandering to a voter base is not going to solve these problems, nor are class divisions and name calling. Once upon a time such behaviours could be indulged in because the crisis hadn't gotten to this point. It is way past time for this to cease. It's reminiscent of a husband and wife bickering about whose turn it is to take out the trash while all around them the house is on fire.

Anyone addressing the topic at hand? Democrats boycotting a vote? Right or wrong, at least they are taking a stand. Where are the right wing cheerleaders that think protesting is a good thing? All I read is the complaint that students were brought in by teachers to the protest. Seems there aughtta be one republican applauding the lesson of protests being taught to students. Let me guess, it isn't republicans doing the boycotting.

You are willing to have a corporation deemed a legal citizen but not a union? Please explain the difference. CEOs of corporations are treated while union workers are cheated? CEOs get big bonuses and told, it's ok, it's in thier contract. Unions are squelched and told thier contracts don't matter?

So, if we own a company, we have our rights, if we work for a company, we are to be slaves to them.... got it.

OverTaxedAgain....... (Probably on welfare.) I guess that "Sally" as you put it is busy tracking down how many times you have called people names on here. Does "Jethro" ring a bell?

And I'm sorry if you mistook my comment for a threat to someone else. (That is someone else isn't it? I mean you wouldn't use different names on here just to pat your own back would you?) But don't worry. I don't threaten. No threats are not facts. I deal with facts.......... Get it?

TheTruth1950: "You Faux news parrots are the most stupid bunch of idiots allowed to have a computer."

Yawn. If there was actual substance to your points, you wouldn't have to resort to name-calling...

Government workers pay their taxes from my taxes.

It is they who have no sympathy for me.

I love how the media and the career politicans blaming our economic downfall on unions and federal workers.

Last time I checked, the unions and federal workers didn't force our country in to 2 deadend wars that is costing us 160 billion a year, gave huge tax breaks to the rich and corporations, gave outrageous salaries to CEOs, give out predatory subprime mortgage to americans, and outsourced American jobs overseas while still posting record profits. Don't also forget that unions and federal workers didn't raid the social security funds and pension funds to pay for pet projects and wars while replacing it with iou's.

Bosslimo: "So, if we own a company, we have our rights, if we work for a company, we are to be slaves to them.... got it."

If that's how you feel then, don't go to work for a company. No job is a right, just as owning a company is not a right.

Rick: this is about class warfare, don't you get it. Us vs. them.

As to the Supreme Court, I also find their classification of Eminent Domain equally disturbing and the Faux news comment??? come on, is that the best you can do? Seems you parrot other media driven talking points and guess what? The media is controlled by six corporations, that's all, just six, and if the FCC keeps it up that number will diminish as well. So, where do we get our propaganda?

had-enough-470242: "Last time I checked, the unions and federal workers didn't force our country in to 2 deadend wars that is costing us 160 billion a year, gave huge tax breaks to the rich and corporations, gave outrageous salaries to CEOs, give out predatory subprime mortgage to americans, and outsourced American jobs overseas while still posting record profits."

I think you're a little confused. Federal workers (i.e. your illustrious government) had everything to do with your first 2 points, they enabled your 3rd and 4th points, and unions had everything to do with the last point.

mygirl1........ I could point out that it was you who tossed an insult my way that got the whole argument started. But we'll just drop that one and get back to the problem.

I agree that we are in bad shape economically. But I'll just give you a short peek through my eyes for a second and maybe you will be able to see my point a bit better. I recently was invited to go on a cruise in the Bahamas, where I spent time on a private Island in a 5 million dollar beach house. We wined and dined at the cost of over $1,200 for one meal in Boca Raton . We laid in the Sun, went deep sea fishing for several days to the cost of over $20,000.

Now..... The fellow that took me is worth over $50,000,000 and is listed in Forbes. He has 3 private planes including a Lear jet and 2 sea going vessels. He's a great guy, but at his age of 35, with so much wealth accumulated I had to get curious. He grew up poor, so it wasn't family money. Upon research I found huge donations he had made to the Republican party and its programs. I also saw where after said donations were made, he got the "bid" rewarded to him on various government projects........ all of which were overseen by Republican control. Then I noticed something else. He had one business not in his name, but in the name of someone close to him. It had nothing to do with any of his other business' and he would have had as much use for it as a pig would for a silk hat.

It was a business located in Colombia, South America. Again I looked at the list of his "political donations". All top name Republicans. McCain included. So you will have to forgive me if I feel that we are being sold out and something is rotten in Denmark.

Rickeroo

Government workers pay their taxes from my taxes.

It is they who have no sympathy for me.

And my taxes are paying these leech private contracting companies such as KBR and Blackwater who are profiteering off 2 wars. Oil private companies such as Exxon who posted 45.2 billion dollar profit in 2009 but paid no income taxes while using our tax payers paid public lands, or how the private financial and auto companies bailed out using our tax payer money eh?

Rob-523523

had-enough-470242: "Last time I checked, the unions and federal workers didn't force our country in to 2 deadend wars that is costing us 160 billion a year, gave huge tax breaks to the rich and corporations, gave outrageous salaries to CEOs, give out predatory subprime mortgage to americans, and outsourced American jobs overseas while still posting record profits."

I think you're a little confused. Federal workers (i.e. your illustrious government) had everything to do with your first 2 points, they enabled your 3rd and 4th points, and unions had everything to do with the last point.

My mistake. I forgot that you lumped police, teachers, firefighters, military, policiticans, government officials, congress, judicial officials all into one group.

Forwhatitsworth: Fair enough. Dig deep and you'll see that democrats are just as culpable when it comes to favors. Obama has GE and whoever is behnd the high speed rails and big pharma was one of his largest campaign contributors. Reid has casinos and chinese investments with turbines and the list goes on from both sides.

I have to ask how a 35 year old is worth fifty million and where he got said money for the massive donations? George Carlin hit the nail square on the head when he said to forget about voting or changing things since a handful of large corporations had controlled America since, like forever. If you read a little history you'll see where I'm coming from as regards both parties and special interests. Until campaign finance reform occurs (like when hell freezes over) we will continue to suffer as a result.

had-enough-470242... Don't let anyone change your mind. You're so close to the truth and I know that at least SOME of the posters on here know it and want you to shut up.

Hey! You want to make a hit at your next party? I've got a Blackwater tee-shirt I'll let you have cheap. I don't think I'll be needing it after what I've seen.

mygirl1.... You know the guy that is being held in Pakistan right now? Well this guy does similar things for people in dark places. His business' run themselves off of cheap labor and a few key people.

It was my past that got me invited along. I had wine at a dinner party at one of his mansions with a guy who had had lunch with the director of the CIA. They were drinking wine at $800 a bottle. Does that tell you anything?

Our country is in a world of "trouble", there is a storm coming and at my age I only fear for my children and grandchildren not for myself. The American dream has been bought and sold by people who hide behind our flag and profess to be patriots, when in truth it is all about $$$$$$$$$ and lots of it.

And the next American Revolution begins. Thank God for the true Americans that stand tall for everything this great nation has always been about. Not those that have worked so hard for so many years to corrupt the proud American spirit in the name of great power and wealth. But those with the blood coursing thru their veins of our wise forefathers and the brave men and women that have paid with their very lives to preserve this great nation for well over 200 years.

We are proud Americans, not the lazy wimps that some in our country believe us to be. We will not lie down beaten as many of our own political leaders and wealthy corportions sell this nation to the highest bidder. This land is our land. This great American experiment called the United States of America belongs to us. You may think that your swindles have worked. You may think you have divided and conquered the people thru the lies of your highly paid media. You are badly mistaken.

The people of Wisconsin have proven you wrong. The political leaders in Wisconsin that stand with the people have proven you wrong. You WILL correct all that you have soiled or the rest of the people in the entire country will rise against you. The time is now to restore the balance in this country. You can't have it all or most of it. The resources and hard work of the people in this country belong to all of us. You'll willingly give it back or we will take it back.

Forwhatitsworth: I was wrong, we're on the same page. See what deliberately created class and political divisions can do. So, how do we alter course? I try to look at both sides and do research and have become a conspiracy theorist as a result. It didn't start out like that, I was just curious but the more I read and looked into situations and events the more alarmed I became. Have you ever read Vonnegut's "God Bless You Mr. Rosewater?" If you have then you understand the 'money river' and what we have before us is the money river x ten.

mygirl1..... No I haven't read it, but I will make it a point to get a copy. I'm old enough to remember President Eisenhower making his last speech as he left office. I can still remember what my father said, (A die-hard Republican.) when I sat and watched the outgoing President I remember this nervous look on his face and in his eyes as he glanced around the room. He was speaking of the changes in our country with a standing army the size of which our country never had, and the pressures that were already, just 15 years after WWII had ended, being put on the political structure of our country.

I think if there was a turning point, that was it. My father served under Eisenhower in WWII. He said not to me, but to himself out loud, "I've never seen him so nervous?" Almost as if it were a question he was asking himself.

What I have seen and experienced is what some would refer to as "honor among thieves". Somewhere people started caring more for themselves and money, then they do for the life of our country and our country men. We have become so divided that we are easy to control. In the 1960's-70's there was a force that brought people together in a common goal. But the movement was attacked and destroyed by the introduction of drugs to many of the people involved in it. At that time in my life, I would have been against it. But now I look back and think that it was no accident that the drug culture was the thing that brought that movement down.

Fire the Wisconsin teachers who did not report to work! There are plenty of qualified people who need these jobs. These filthy pigs should kiss the ground that they walk on because it's NOT Egypt, not Bahrain, not Libya, not Lebanon, not Syria, and not Iran. Fire them now!

Waterdog49......... Have another six-pack. The night is still young.

Forwhatitsworth: The 60's started out as anti-vietnam. My father was in the army and I remeber a lot of GI's coming back with some serious dope. I also recall that the draft was alive and well and how returning soldiers were treated.

Look into the Third Reich and how many nazis were funded by wealthy families on this side of the pond. The corruption goes back to the robber barons, the Rockefellers, Morgans, Standard Oil and many, many more of that ilk.

Derek: I'm a NJ homeowner, and I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Cut what public school budget? Christie or no Christie, when you live in a community controlled by Communists of the worst kind , there are no school budget cuts, and Gov. Christie can't do a freakin thing about that. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. You obviously don't live in a Communist town in NJ as I do. Fuggetabouit. I'm moving south where all the sensible people in NJ are going. Lost cause!

mygirl1.... I know all about Vietnam. From 1st hand experience. I also had a brother and 3 first cousins to go there. I cousin died from agent orange and agent yellow, one was crippled by a helicopter blade that was blown off by a mortar round and struck him. My brother suffers now from agent orange. My other cousin who was a USMC at Khasahn in 68' suffers from PTSD. Me? All I got during that time was a cut on my hand and a broken leg.

And I know about Prescott Bush and his ties to Hitlers war machine. The Bush family still has law suits pending against them for their part in operating a factory using Jewish slave labor to produce among other things, Zyclon B. It was a gas that was used to murder people in the extermination camps that the Nazi's ran.

I'd love to keep talking with you, but I have a farm to run, so I have to get up at 5:00am. I'll click on you to stay in touch. Take care.

"In response to a question of where she was, Sen. Lena Taylor sent a tweet saying she was "doing the people's business. Power to the PEOPLE.""

Run and hide and then claim you are doing your job and throw out an overplayed slogan to impress the easily impressed.... Just when you thought Dems couldn't sink any lower. What kind of adult runs away and hides? Must be nice to just disappear from your job and not be fired.

orbust........ Too many? Fat and lazy? Or are you just too fat and lazy to respond?

Kinda makes you feel "outnumbered" doesn't it?

pjam09......... What kind? The kind that became President of The United States once...... Abraham Lincoln.

Hmmm....I wonder if we could get some of those guys from Wisconsin to come down here and get the Democrat legislators to leave our state.

Fact: Wisconsin's was projected by their own accounting to have an overall budget surplus of one hundred and twenty million in 2012 (amazing considering the state of the economy Nation wide). Interesting that the Republican Governor pissed it all away in tax breaks for his corporate cronies (this was his first order of business after taking office). These tax breaks for the rich, multinationals and corporations totaled one hundred and thirty million (do the math). More importantly eliminating the American right of collective bargaining for Federal and state employees will effectively destroy and eliminate the Democratic Party's number one source of Champaign donations in any given year. This is not fiscal conservatism... this is politics! Fact: FOX News is lying on behalf of Corporate America!

big freakin deal, it is not as if party line has not walked out before during session. Grow up and deal with it. That is what you were elected to do.

As for the Democrat state senators, what were you thinking???? I personally would have loved to see how the Wisc Repulicans vote. Yes, it would have further solidify the elitists and the working class. The debate would have been comical, with new comedy lines every day.... serious late night and SNL material. It would have a been serious blow to the GOP in Wisconson in 2012.... Should have pushed the matter instead of delaying debate and vote on a dead bill. In my opinion, this bill is already dead. If Republicans actually vote for the Bill, then it is guaranteed that they will not have any blue collar support in their next election. No one is that stupid.... The one term Tea Party members is another case. So why represent your constituients?

This is very simple. You (A. Person). are not entitled to 100% benefits and pay funded by the taxpayers. The people that don't enjoy YOUR same right. Why should we in the private sector pay for something we can't have?

In the above thread I made the following comment;

Unions, and particularly public employees unions have had way too much power for way too long. This is a great step in the right direction and a great place to start cutting the fat. Hopefully this will be highly contagious.

It was collapsed, even though 120 people agreed with me. I see others who I disagree with treated in the same manner. Why is this?

After reading all these comments about "other" unions, I am wondering why NO political group in power has even talked about just how HUGE & POWERFUL the police, firemans, and paramedic unions are??

What will they be forced to give up?? I live here in NY state and I was SHOCKED to learn that there are at least 7 LAYERS of Law Enforcement (local police, sheriffs, state police, City, county and state Marshalls, DEC, NCON, NYS Bureau of investigation, and god only know how many depts I have missed ALL being paid to do the same job as each other ONLY doing it by filing a different form with a different dept. How does this state justify that a MAJOR (rank) in ANY of these depts (ALL covered BY the PBA) should earn an annual salary of $174,000 (YES, that's a Hundred and seventy four THOUSAND dollars) as a salary NOT including ALL the PERKS of the job.

And the GREED of these people is simply nauseating. The RANKS above the rank of Captain ALL were asking for a $20K annual salary increase less than 2 months ago. Thank god, our NEW govenor told them where to stick it.

It is absolutely no wonder when considering the salarys that these people are paid for the amount of daily and annual work that each of them do, that this state is BEYOND broke!!!!

There is absolutely NO reason why we have to have 7 LAYERS of Police, Fire, and Paramedic protection. What happened to the world where I grew up in where you either had local police of the sherriffs for local protection and the STATE police took care of the STATE. That was friggin it.

1. 2, or 3 different police agencys protected this state until as late as the 60's. Then all heck broke loose, and someone figured out that since the taxpayers were paying the bill and they also thought the taxpayers were too stupid to realize it, they could just organize NEW agencys to cover everything from chasing down squirrels (park police) to mean spirited Meter Maids.

And when those same people who slipped all this crap past the taxpayers soon realized there was just not enough state revenue the normal way (federal taxes) to pay these people a NEW state income tax was instituted as well as the commanders looked the other way while their patrol officers ran rough shod over the citizendry by issuing rediculious tickets, violations, summons, with absolutely INSANE amounts of fines attached.

Never mind, this crap about SURCHARGES that the state now redularly attaches to virtually EVERY form of business conducted.

The system is seriously BROKEN because of ALL the "in-your face/what are YOU going to do about it" rampant GREED and CORRUPTION that the PEOPLE (YOU) are ALLOWING these HIRED GUNS to do to you.

And trust me people, the Law Enforcement people of this state will be the LAST folks I call in case of an emergency. I do not need too. I have designed my entire life to be self-sufficent and OFF-the-GRID right down to on site power generation and HIGH pressure water pumps to fight fires.

Learn to be self-sufficent and there will be absolutely no need for all this EXCESS Law Enforcement protection, fire protection/prevention, and even the most basic medical skills.

Does anyone here think for a moment that pioneers on the frontier 100 years ago called the fire department when there was a fire?? Heck no, they dealt with it them selves and did not cry to Social Services for financial support.

People had a SPINE back then. They were HEARTY, strong, PROUD to be American and did NOT complain.

What the hell has happened to my country I was born in, proud to serve, and as JFK said "ASK not what your country can do for you BUT what can you do for your country"

To me this basic tenant has fallen by the wayside as people have figured out that they only have to do the bare minimum to earn a UNEARNED hourly wage as dictated by the rules of a UNION contract!!!

Nuff said...........

What a despicable act by the Democrat Senators. Getting on a bus and leaving the State. It is a stunt. I think it was to allow some time to import more protesters in from other States. Obama's "Organize America" is now on scene. The DNC is involved. They are trying to swell the number of sign carriers and rabble rowsers to make it look like they have more support than they do. A de facto teachers strike. If they called in sick they should need a Doctors note, just like the kids do to excuse their absence. And Drug Test the Teachers too.......

25,000 out of a population of 5.4 million in the State. It's a small fraction.

Democrats are all for democracy when the vote will go their way....when the know it won't, they run away.......how Patriotic

cdahl

This is very simple. You (A. Person). are not entitled to 100% benefits and pay funded by the taxpayers. The people that don't enjoy YOUR same right. Why should we in the private sector pay for something we can't have?

It's funny how you mentioned that. I wonder what % of walmart, McDonalds or other corporations that pay unlivable minimum wages are actually on public assistance such as food stamps, medicare, medicaid, etc? Corporations in the private industry that still rake in huge profits yet pay their employees peanuts. After all, the government will pick up the rest.

I know a few marines that were on food stamps because their pay was so low (E-1 to E-3). They also have free tricare for their healthcare. You think they don't deserve it too?

These Teacher Unions need to understand that they have to start paying into the system like everyone else, first it was they were angry because we wanted to stop paying for their Viagra and now "they" don't want to have to pay toward "their retirement and Health Care. They drug students to the protest and when ask the kids didn't even know why they were there.

Obama wants the unions it to help him with getting reelected, well so sorry Obama you can't BUY your way this time. You are on your way out we can no longer pay to support these Unions and all their request!!

Janie Ackerly.....I wonder if there is a Viagra-like pill that would help them perform better in the classroom ??? You saw the students on TV.....wandering in a daze, giggling, Yay, a day off from school....My teacher brought me here....to stop some guy from doing something

This sure is a heated topic. Almost 10,000 responces!

Having been in business since before 18, and not having EVER been able to collect a days worth of unemployment, nor anyone to cry to but myself regarding working conditions, pay and vacation the very idea of a Union makes me sick. I understand there are some people that require consistency, they would feel completely lost without a schedule or a "set" routine. All I can say is this, "It must be nice".

One time when I was very young I went to this party with friends. Turned out to be a real bad scene. Lot's of people doing drugs, many of them from the local factory (One of the big three). Anyway my car got stuck in a snow bank (Mustang 5.0) and I was somewhat forced to make friends with these people or freeze, besides there was no way I was going to push the car out myself. In making conversation with one of them who was wearing his Automotive UAW outfit I asked him "Just get off work?" and he said "Naw I'm on break". Considering the amount of drugs he had consumed I was a bit taken back and I asked him "You won't get in trouble going into work intoxicated"? He said to me "Naw, I have a union job, if someone reports me for being high the company has to pay to rehabilitate me, which is basically paid vacation time, after that I just get my job back."

At that time I owned my own business, was single, well dressed, 3 year old sports car and I thought to myself "How the hell do these manufatures survive!?". Now days I am married with children, only dress up when it matters, drive a 20 year old S Class and still own my own business.

I started my business with nothing and I still have most of it left.

That's my story for tonight.

Elsewhere, some Democrats applauded the developments in Wisconsin as a long-awaited sign that their party was fighting back against the Republican wave created by November's midterm election.

Oh, so the DEMOCRATS don’t like what the PEOPLE voted for in November? They just walk out and don’t want to do business? WHO is the party of NO???? Maybe we should send them all to Egypt!

Hi DBAkron - good comments. I live in West Central Ohio and our local school system is a prime example of why these bills are necessary. The local city school spends 80% of the yearly budget on wage and benefits for employees. There have been multiple tax levies placed on our local property taxes. A recent levy went down, but then someone, "magically" found the votes needed to make it pass. Our county has had some of the highest Unemployment in the State of Ohio, many months over 13%. The city is deeply divided and since then has made a renewal levy fail. Since 2006 I have lost 16.5% of my wages due to the downturn, yet, until last year, the school employees continued to receive COL raises each year. A request was brought forth to reduce their wages by 2% to balance the budget. You think they were trying to kill the teachers! We cannot have any reduction in pay due to the contract. The Unions have all along, created a propaganda program to insist that "the kids will suffer" if all their demands are not met. Well, the school programs are already suffering since 80% of the money goes to Teacher salaries. (BTW, it has already been shown that the school system is heavy on support staff, without due cause.) The average Teacher in our Dist has a base pay in excess of $50000. I, as a Controller for a small local company, makes much less than the Teachers. (I also have a Master's as well.) The private sector has had to adjust to keep themselves in business, yet, the Unions is keeping their rank and file from joining us. That is wrong. It is greedy and irresponsible. I am so sick of the Unions destroying our country. They are not better than the private sector, nor are the Academically better either. They should not receive more than the private sector or more than the budget can afford.

Mike, The kids looked like they were having a high old time laughing and giggling, they just don't know why, guess it was because they weren't in class being "taught" I think what I find really irritating is the fact some of these unions feel we should take care of them the rest of their lives. These teachers are getting more and more benefits and doing less,our schools are declining and kids are learning less and less.

Every time I hear another republican complaining about union workers being overpaid my jaw hits the floor. Over the last 30 years, the salaries of the wealthy CEOs and high-level management has skyrocketed while the salaries of just about everyone else has DECREASED in inflation-adjusted dollars.

You want to know who is overpaid? The wealthy. Explain to me how a police officer that puts his life on the line every day to protect the rest of us is overpaid but the CEOs of health insurance companies somehow deserve to be paid tens of millions of dollars a year for canceling the insurance policies of cancer patients. Explain to me how a teacher that spends 7 hours a day dealing with a ROOMFUL of kids and spends her evenings preparing lesson plans for the next day is overpaid but the multi-millionaires on Wall Street somehow deserve their salaries when they do little for society except fatten their own wallets?

Finally, explain to me how a company somehow deserves to have the same rights as a person but a union does not.

Wake up, folks. This has nothing to do with solving any financial crises in Wisconsin. This is simply a group of republicans trying to union-bust because unions tend to support democrats. It's plain old selfish politics.

Had enough,

Interesting points, but.....

Being in a 100% taxpayer funded benefit plan does not preclude you fromfood stamps, if you qualify.

And if one does't feel that they are earning enough, or being treated fair....Find another job. If you are on food stamps, you probably qualify for taxpayer funded education opportunities which can lead to bettering your lifestyle, higher pay etc.

I'm not totally on board with comparing the state workers of Wis. 100% tax payer funded pensions (401K) for life, and 100% paid health insurance to those employees and their benefits of Wal-Mart. And I will assume that the average worker at Wal-mart is in the 48% of Americans that don't pay any federal taxes. Therefore, are not funding the retirements of state workers in Wis, and their health-care.

MginRochester,

To me this is not about comparing CEO pay with Union pay as you suggest. It is about me, an non-CEO in the upper 52% of people that pay all the taxes, funding a retirement (100%) and health-care (100%) of state officials.

Those workers do not pay into their pensions, the tax payers fund it. The state of Wis. is hurting financially. I am on the side of "I don't want my taxes raised continually in order to balance budgets." And I don't want to pay for other people retirement plans. In the 70's US corporations had pension program for non-union people. The were replaced by 401K matching programs. To me it is time to match what the average private employee has with what the states are offering.

The costs that the unions have are not in pay, but benefits. Increase their pay, and mirror good, quality public company benefits.

MGIN, I don't think this is so much "all" unions but more about the refusal to negotiate. This one won't even agree to Contribute toward their retirement or pension. My husband was in the Carpenters Union we had to pay toward his Pension and Health Care, and if we wanted to continue the Health Care after he retired we still pay toward that. I don't thing the American Tax Payer should pay for everything , the members of unions should have to contribute like everyone else. I also think the Government workers should pay in as well. We are going bankrupt fast!!

Provided by Governor Scott Walker's office

A full summary of the Governor's budget repair bill is below.

Fiscal Year 2010-11 Budget Adjustment Bill Items

Employee Compensation:

Pension contributions: Currently, state, school district and municipal employees that are members of the Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) generally pay little or nothing toward their pensions. The bill would require that employees of WRS employers, and the City and County of Milwaukee contribute 50 percent of the annual pension payment. The payment amount for WRS employees is estimated to be 5.8 percent of salary in 2011.

Health insurance contributions: Currently, state employees on average pay approximately 6 percent of annual health insurance premiums. This bill will require that state employees pay at least 12.6 percent of the average cost of annual premiums. In addition, the bill would require changes to the plan design necessary to reduce current premiums by 5 percent. Local employers participating in the Public Employers Group Health insurance would be prohibited from paying more than 88 percent of the lowest cost plan. The bill would also authorize the Department of Employee Trust Funds to use $28 million of excess balances in reserve accounts for health insurance and pharmacy benefits to reduce health insurance premium costs.

Health insurance cost containment strategies: The bill directs the Department of Employee Trust Funds and the Group Insurance Board to implement health risk assessments and similar programs aimed at participant wellness, collect certain data related to assessing health care provider quality and effectiveness, and verify the status of dependents participating in the state health insurance program. In addition, it modifies the membership of the Group Insurance Board to require that the representative of the Attorney General be an attorney to ensure the board has access to legal advice among its membership.

Pension changes for elected officials and appointees: The bill modifies the pension calculation for elected officials and appointees to be the same as general occupation employees and teachers. Current law requires these positions to pay more and receive a different multiplier for pension calculation than general classification employees. Under the state constitution, this change will be effective for elected officials at the beginning of their next term of office.

Modifications to Wisconsin Retirement System and state health insurance plans: The bill directs the Department of Administration, Office of State Employment Relations and Department of Employee Trust Funds to study and report on possible changes to the Wisconsin Retirement System, including defined contribution plans and longer vesting periods. The three agencies must also study and report on changes to the current state health insurance plans, including health insurance purchasing exchanges, larger purchasing pools, and high-deductible insurance options.

General fund impact – Authorize the Department of Administration Secretary to lapse or transfer from GPR and PR appropriations (excluding PR appropriations to the University of Wisconsin) to the general fund estimated savings of approximately $30 million from implementing these provisions for state employees in the current fiscal year (2010-11). Segregated funds would retain any savings from these measures.

State and Local Government and School District Labor Relations:

Collective bargaining – The bill would make various changes to limit collective bargaining for most public employees to wages. Total wage increases could not exceed a cap based on the consumer price index (CPI) unless approved by referendum. Contracts would be limited to one year and wages would be frozen until the new contract is settled. Collective bargaining units are required to take annual votes to maintain certification as a union. Employers would be prohibited from collecting union dues and members of collective bargaining units would not be required to pay dues. These changes take effect upon the expiration of existing contracts. Local law enforcement and fire employees, and state troopers and inspectors would be exempt from these changes.

Career executive transfers – The bill would allow state employees in the career executive positions to be reassigned between agencies upon agreement of agency heads.

Limited term employees (LTE) – The bill would prohibit LTE's from being eligible for health insurance or participation in the Wisconsin Retirement System.

State employee absences and other work actions – If the Governor has declared a state of emergency, the bill authorizes appointing authorities to terminate any employees that are absent for three days without approval of the employer or any employees that participate in an organized action to stop or slow work.

Quality Health Care Authority – The bill repeals the authority of home health care workers under the Medicaid program to collectively bargain.

Child care labor relations – The bill repeals the authority of family child care workers to collectively bargain with the State.

University of Wisconsin Hospitals and Clinics (UWHC) Board and Authority – The bill repeals collective bargaining for UWHC employees. State positions currently employed by the UWHC Board are eliminated and the incumbents are transferred to the UWHC Authority.

University of Wisconsin faculty and academic staff - The bill repeals the authority of UW faculty and academic staff to collectively bargain.

Debt Restructuring – The bill authorizes the restructuring of principal payments in fiscal year 2010-11 on the state's general obligation bonds. These principal repayments will be paid in future years. Since the state is required to make debt service payments by March 15th, the bill must be enacted by February 25th to allow time to sell the refinancing bonds. This provision will reduce debt service costs by $165 million in fiscal year 2010-11. This savings will help address one‑time costs to comply with the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund state Supreme Court decision and make payments under the Minnesota‑Wisconsin tax reciprocity program.

Medicaid

Address FY11 Medicaid deficit – Medicaid costs are expected to exceed current GPR appropriations by $153 million. The bill would increase the Medicaid GPR appropriation to address this shortfall.

Authorize DHS to restructure program notwithstanding current law – Medicaid costs have increased dramatically due to the recession and expanded program eligibility. In order to reduce the growth in costs, the bill authorizes the Department of Health Services to make program changes notwithstanding limits in state law related to specific program provisions. The department is expected to develop new approaches on program benefits, eligibility determination and provider cost-effectiveness. The proposed changes will require passive approval of the Joint Committee on Finance before implementation.

Technical correction – Act 28 included language that required unused GPR expenditure authority in the Medicaid GPR appropriation at the end of the biennium to be carried over to the subsequent biennium. The bill repeals this provision in order to ensure unspent funds in Medicaid lapse to the general fund balance.

Aging and Disability Resource Centers (ADRC) – The bill transfers an estimated $3 million in savings in this appropriation to Medicaid. ADRC's are the intake and assessment element of the state's Family Care program.

Corrections – The bill provides $22 million GPR to address shortfalls in the Department of Corrections adult institutions appropriation. These shortfalls are due to health care costs, overtime, and reductions in salary and fringe benefit budgets under Act 28.

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) Funding for Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) – The bill allocates $37 million of excess TANF revenues to increase TANF funding for the EITC from $6.6 million to $43.6 million in fiscal year 2010-11. By increasing TANF funding, GPR funding for the EITC is reduced by a commensurate amount.

Income Augmentation Revenues – Allow the Department of Children and Families and Department of Health Services to utilize $6.5 million of already identified income augmentation revenues to meet fiscal year 2010-11 lapse requirements.

Act 28 Required Lapses by DOA Secretary – Under Act 28, the Department of Administration Secretary is required to lapse or transfer a total of $680 million in 2009-11 from appropriations made to executive branch agencies to the general fund. The bill would reduce this amount by $79 million to ensure the lapses can be met in the next five months as this was ineffectively addressed by the previous administration.

Lapse of Funding from Joint Committee on Finance (JCF) Appropriation – The JCF appropriation includes $4.5 million related to estimated fiscal year 2010-11 implementation costs of 2009 Wisconsin Act 100 (operating while intoxicated enforcement changes). This funding is not anticipated to be needed in fiscal year 2010-11 and the bill lapses these amounts to the general fund balance.

Sale of State Heating Plants – The bill authorizes the Department of Administration to sell state heating plants. The proceeds from any sale, net of remaining debt service, would be deposited in the budget stabilization fund.

Shift Key Cabinet Agency Positions to Unclassified Status – The bill creates unclassified positions for chief legal counsel, public information officer and legislative liaison activities in cabinet agencies. An equivalent number of classified positions are deleted to offset the new unclassified positions. These activities are critical to each cabinet agency's overall mission and should have direct accountability to the agency head.

ok i have read this, and see nothing at all unreasonable..... outside of teachers, and unions using kids to "stop some dude from doing something" kids have no reason to be there if 1 they have no idea wtf is going on because these so said teachers, cant even teach them the name of the governor, a free get out of class pass to do something they have no clue as to what they are doing? these people want US to pay for there raises, not to mention show support? get a life you union scumbags, shame on you for bringing airheads to a debate that have NO CLUE as to what the debate is about, much less lacking the smarts to comprehend what the word debate means. shame on the democraps for running like little kids to pout rather than debate this in the open.....

oh, and if you union anti political republicans want to cry about where's the cut to elected officials? read it again, they are in there with the rest of the group. so cry foul all you want to, the democraps in this case ar trying to save the $$ going into their own pockets!

Who ever is managing this site, I have one question. This is supposed to be a site where people can come and state their idea's. It does not mean that if ones ideas does not meat the approval of the masses that this persons statement should be collapsed. And for you group members who are doing this, shame on you, you wish to be heard, so why is it that you can not let others be too. I do understand shutting down racist, stupid, or outright hateful statements, but to shut down people's views just because they do not agree with yours or the groups is wrong.

This agreement looks pretty darn good to me

And to add to my statement. Why is it that the people that have the most people agreeing with them are the ones that are shut down. Although I see both sides have been shut down, mostly I see anti-union sides shut down. This is becoming nothing more then censorship and needs to be stopped.

guess once the public sector falls, private sector will to. i'm going to design a card board box that will accomidate a family of four. anybody want to buy one while you have some cash. you can get it real cheap right now before inflation shows up, or demand increases.

pardon my ignorance, i have almost no personal experience with unions, we don't have a lot of unions in Tennessee, but it seems whenever they strike in our area, they were already making much more than the average, so there arguments seem petty compared to what others are facing. as for the democrats walking out, my first thought was YEA! But i admit it does not reflect well on them. However, too often it seems the biggest problem with our two party system is the teeter-totter, back and forth, where 51% thinks they have the absolute power to overrun the will of the other 49%. Not that i believe any other system is better, i just think we tend to confuse voting with hero worship, and immediately after being elected our "public servants" become drunk with power and forget "their place". i just read an article by an adomant republican activist in our state calling for the impeachment of our newly elected republican governor because immediately after election his first act was to change disclosure laws that would force him to disclose sources of income, etc. blah, blah, blah. My point is we should all put aside our insane devotion to partisan politics and work together to dig ourselves out of the mess created by the crooks on both sides of the aisle, which WE elected by the way, so we must all share the blame and responsibility. Finally, i don't believe there is that much difference between unions and government, both are little more than necessary evils, drunk with money and power, prone to corruption, and yet ELECTED BY US! Jimmy Carter (i know, you hate him) once said in a debate with Ronald (i forgot) Reagan (i know, you worship him), that there are no simple solutions to complicated problems (paraphrased), and never has that been more true than now. I like John Lennon's attitude, "i tell them there's no problems, only solutions". May we find peace and unity, and if we must fight, let us fight against the corruption that is enslaving us and destroying this great country. "Give me your money, send me to Washington, and I will solve all your problems" quote (insert crook of choice here).

So we have two choices it seems.

No unions and the corporate oligarchy that it promises, or we embrace unions and the excessive, mafia like operation that it represents.

And we, with a straight face, want to export this wonderful lifestyle to other countries? Are we serious?

Personally I wish for some calamity to strike that is so horrible that it changes the way we look at life. Unfortunately thats what it will take. The world is consumed by greed. We think we have it bad here when in other countries they just walk into your house, shoot you, and take all of your possessions in the name of the state.

Bring on the aliens! I would rather my children get vaporized by heat beams then have them be slaves to the elite cabal of powerbrokers.

Your child just might be the person who carries Paris Hilton's dogs poop bag!

by the way, i own my own business, and work a second job (thanks to the housing market collapse), pay my taxes, and have never taken unemployment, food stamps or any other form of government assistance, and though i may lean democratic, i wouldn't pee on either party if they were on fire in their current form. now, let the hate begin.

To those who are wondering why law enforcement and firefighters were left out of the bill, it is because SOME of these local departments backed
Gov. Walker in the election. Over the past years Wisconsin public employees have taken pay freezes and contributed more the insurance and pension, but this is not what they are protesting for, they are protesting for their collective bargaining rights which is what the bill aims to take away. Check out the definition of collective bargaining to see that it involves way more than wages and benefits. Walker says ending collective bargaining is part of the budget fix but collective bargaining has nothing whatsoever to do with balancing the budget especially since Wisconsin actually has a surplus in it's budget. This is union busting plain and simple plus a little favoritism thrown in for good measure to the groups that supported the governor (however, these departments can now be seen protesting in Madison for the sake of their fellow workers). If this bill pases and if you believe in trickle down, then this will trickle down to all unions and then to everyone in the private sector. The benefits that the private sector enjoys, 40 hour weeks, 401K's, vacation, safe working conditions, etc., were courtesy of the union's fights and once these rights are taken away from union members there's no stopping it being taken away from the private sector. So for those of you who think unions are no longer necessary, think again. And no, I do not belong to a union, I just live in Wisconsin and have the common sense to see this for what it is. As for the democrat senators that left the state, thank you for standing up for the people that voted you in. You are the voice of your electors, even though you are not in the big building in Madison, you are still doing the job you were electred for are being paid for.

Hey - who's collapsing so many of the commnents? My comment (1.20) was collapsed "by the community" and I simply expressed an opinion. Who did that?

I want to know how to collpase comments also - There's a lot of Repug BS that needs to be eliminated.

Dont worry about those fine government jobs.

Walmart is ready to take up the slack.

Your kid can buy school supplies, get an education, eat lunch, and see the nurse all in one convenient location.

Sorotof like Carl's Jr. in the movie Idiocracy.

I really wish people would bother to do the Research as to the History of the US Labor Unions.

1. The US Labor Unions of the Henry Ford Era were wiped out by the 1929-1939 Great Depression.

2. Prior to World War II, President FDR Suspended All US Labor Union Activities. During that time it was thought that the US Labor Unions were part of the "Italian Organized Crime". In retrospect he was right. As the US Labor Unions were Organized by the "Italian Organized Crime" gone legit (many of the Italian Godfathers did not want to get into other "Businesses" like Drugs and Prostitution (easier to get caught).). The "Italian Organized Crime" also started the US Insurance Corporations, like Arsonist "Tommy the Torch" selling "Business Insurance". Most of the "Italian Organized Crime" believed in what Mussolini and ally Hitler were doing, since Germany and Italy got out of the Global Great Depression (people literally dying from starvation) years before the US.

3. Prior to WWII President FDR also Nationalized all US Industry. While the US was shipping US Military "War Materials" to England before getting into the War At Europe (an Act of War). England was at War with Germany since 1939, and had set backs (loss of lots of Military Equipment) like loss at Dunkirk.

4. After the US entered the War At Europe, the US War Department conducted a Study to prevent the catastrophic accidents at the US Ammunition Plants/Factories. The Study strongly recommended a decrease in the work week to 40 hours per week, a certain amount of sleep, safety procedures, numbers of fire extinguishers, a fire department, etc.. Since US Industry was Nationalized by President FDR, this became Standard for all US Industry. It was NOT the later (after WWII) nor previous US Labor Unions that did this as they claim (propaganda). Later other concessions were made like getting the day off for Religious Worship (Sunday). The Jews demanded Friday and Saturday off for Religious Worship and received Saturday. Eventually this resulted in Saturday and Sunday off from work. Eventually, even concessions were made to make all wages equal at all the US Nationalized Industry (including for Women) this became the later Federal Minimum Wage (again not because of the US Labor Unions, as their Activities were Suspended by President FDR). You can get a copy of the US War Department Study (above) under the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act), like I did (if I were at home not here (Afghanistan), where my copy is, I could give you the entire title, date, etc.).

5. During the US Military Invasion (Liberation, depending on your viewpoint) of Sicily, and Italy, the "Italian Organized Crime" (still believed in what Mussolini was doing) demanded and organized the US Labor Unions to strike to slow down the US Military Invasion of Sicily and Italy. President FDR states a National Emergency and orders the US Military Police (not National Guard) to stop the Strikes, with Deadly Force Authorized, resulting in the US Military Police machinegunning US Labor Union Strikers that got violent (deadly). Reference BBC Documentary. While living (stationed) at Germany and Italy while writing my Research Papers for Post Graduate Degrees I interviewed many survivors of WWII (that were young adults ("teens were considered as adults back then, as in their Military) during WWII, to get an idea of what happened at Germany and Italy). The Study of Military History/Science/Politics is job related as a US Military Officer.). Much to the displeasure of the College Professors my Research Papers were written like a Cornelius Ryan (I like his books and style of writing) Novel (including the detailed research, hundreds of pages just in the appendices.).

6. After WWII the President FDR Suspension of US Labor Union Activities was lifted. During this time the "Italian Organized Crime" took over the US Labor Unions in Full Force (financial backing, "muscle", organization based on the Italian equivalent of the National Socialist German Workers Party and "brown shirt" tactics, etc.). This has been chronicled by movies and books like F.I.S.T (1978), On the Water Front (1954), Last Exit to Brooklyn (1989), TV mini series American Justice: Target - Mafia (1993)(Jimmy Hoffa), Jimmy Hoffa (aka Hoffa)(1992), etc.. The US Labor Unions became a lucrative legitimate business for the "Italian Organized Crime", just like they started Las Vegas (eventually caught by the US Government for Tax Evasion, so the US Government ended up owning Las Vegas, including the "Houses of Ill Repute". Eventually everything was "contracted" out or sold to private corporations. Hint: "What happens in Vegas" does not stay in Vegas.). The US Labor Unions take the previous names (pre Great Depression, pre WWII) of US Labor Unions for Public sentiment, popularity and familiarity (smart move).

Back in the day. When I was assigned to US Military Training With Industry (TWI) at Detroit with a certain US Automaker. The car I was drove ended up with four flat tires (sliced), a broken windshield, and torched. I had driven the wrong brand of car into the parking lot (Ford parked at GM). What was really not so smart was that: 1. the car was a Rental, 2. Being a US Military Officer am a US Government (Federal) Employee. The Rental Agency started to put pressure on the UAW to turn over those responsible since they Lease vehicles from Ford, GM, Chrysler. Being a Federal Employee it is the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) that investigates the crimes committed. Eventually, those that did the crimes (fear as terrorism) were turned over by the UAW, and they testified that they were just following UAW Orders.

By the way I already stated in other Newsvine Forums (Topics) the Solution to Fix/Repair the Broken US Education System based on my firsthand experience with the Public, Private and International Education Systems. I will not restate it here, this post is too long, and I have to lead my men and women of my US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare Command Team plus one Support Team to the next location (commanders (US Military Officers) lead from the front, basic leadership 101).

One last thing, research who "Mr. Corporate America" is. (Hint he is NOT a Repugnant, think former Senator from Delaware, Delaware Incorporation Laws, especially "Wall Street" as his major unlimited corporate campaign contributors and constituents.).

These union workers are behaving very badly and are obviously ungrateful for the generous pay and benefits they get now!

The small amount the bill would have them contribute to their own benefits is nothing compared with what private sector employees have to contend with.

ray4a...what's the deal. Are you 15 or what with the caps and hysterical rantings about our president. He's YOUR president bird brain, not mine.

Now If it is Ok for POTUS to Freeze Pay on hard working Civil servants who are not millionares by any stretch of the imagination most of the GS pool are made up of GS-7 thru 12. Which anyone can look up thier pay (it's not allot) as I looked at it as an alterative for serving my country upon the end of the war or incase I was ever wounded and could no longer serve in uniform. They are a hiring freeze and are locked in at what they are currently making now. Potus and SECDEF came to this idea to freeze pay and promotions as a way to help the economy. Which the Civil servants who are Union to an extent never protested, walked out or quit because of the situation. They stood fast and are working with what they are given. My buddy as GS-11 makes 55K with locality pay his wife doesnt work as she is raising thier youngest and they are living paycheck to paycheck and now that it is tax season he is getting hammered because he pays less for healthcare.... 20% tax braket. He and many other within the federal government are willing to take on the chin.

When you think of rich Government servants think of those in washington Congress and the senate. I am sure they are doing just fine on thier pay and other entitlments.

So when it comes to a state I dont see the problem... They need to suck it up and look at the greater good. Their is to much selfishness and not enough working together. I though the dems were all about Working together and not being selfish. I thought that this was the party of sacrificeing for the person under them. They need to think of the greater good and get with the program. Maybe the Unions should not put so much money behing political canidates and keep a savings foralternate compensation for their members.

If the Federal Government can do it the unions can to. Ya Im sure they whine to each other at work but they don't walk out and leave business (inthis case kids) hung out to dry. No wonder our kids education sucks compared to other nations. No wonder a majority of scientist, engineers and mathmaticians are from other countries. Teaching is not rocket scinence as they only teach to the state standards just enough to get thier students by. SAD! When my son starts school next year our oldest will be at a private school one where a teacher is more than a daycare provider.

Tank:

By whom were those numbers projected by. I live in Wisconsin the "surplus" you're talking about doesn't exist. Not to mention, the Republican governor you're talking about has only been governor for all of 1 month. The Wisconsin State Senate hasn't even approved a budget yet and you're claiming Governor Walker's pissed all of our money away. I don't know what state you actually live in or where you get your sources, but having seen the goings on here first hand, I can tell you that you are way off on your facts.

collective bargaining rights also fall under these allotments, i call them allotments because you need to be special to get these....

if you neglect in your functioning role as an employee, you get time off 99.9% of the time with pay. you have the right to have your case heard before the union, as well the entity that has you employed, and thus IF the union doesnt feel there is good enough reason for you to be let go, ie. lack of effort at work, in subordination, misconduct, and so on, then your job is reinstated, with pay if by some remote chance you were denied pay. so for example: some teacher is caught having some type of relations with a student, we usually hear in most cases "suspended with pay till further review". that review is not based on guilt or innocence for some time, then you are still getting paid, even tho you are guilty as sin. hence be the case you have been found NOT to have been in such a violation, you are reinstated. This bill takes away the pay while suspended period. it takes away the power of elected officials of any sort to vote themselves in a raise, thus such a raise will be done with a vote for them in that district, ensuring they are doing their jobs. this also falls in the line with teachers, and other government workers.

The reason being police, firefighters, and emergency responders , are NOT included is, for the simple reason for an example: even if a police shooting an armed robber, who is even at the time shooting at him, and has full right to shoot this person in self defence, for hi safety, and others in the immediate area, he is put on administrative leave, mandatory. during that time the shooting is 1 being confirmed that the officer was in the right, 2 he also see's a therapist due to the emotional stress involved, be there is any and until an evaluation has been completed with satisfaction for he/she to return to work, armed, as an officer, and in his/her full mental capacity, so that there will be the issued sence that an armed person of the law, doesnt snap, and go on a killing spree, and is able to still defend himself, as well innocent victims, without the loss of more life if possible. so for those reasons, and this is as well in some relevance to firefighters and emergency responders of any type there maybe question to the ability to perform in the line of duty pending a traumatic event, or other. i personally am sick of hearing about teachers, and other government workers getting paid because they are suspended for a major infraction. when we hear about it we know this person is going to be fired, but by all means lets drag it out, and pay the person to boot. do you think this person pays the $ back? nope. they are entitled to that $ because the bargainingrights said they are. there's more, but for those who dont know, i suggest looking into what it does entail, and ask yourself, should the people be getting paid for derelictionof duty, as well other things the private sector wouldnt have a shot in heck at? yes do look into it, and you will see how absurd some of the collective bargaining rights are.

I have never worked for a union job and never would. Unlike some, I have skill and don't need representation. As for overtime, doubletime, holiday pay, every job I have worked in the last 40 years payed it all.

I know a lot of businesses in Oregon that pay more in wages and benefits than union jobs because it is worth it to keep unions out.

Repubs whine when they do not get their way. What a hypocritical bunch of sore losers. The Dems that left the building were doing their job supporting their constituents' wishes. They WERE doing the job they were paid to do! The immature governor was mad because he learned REAL QUICK that he can't bully people around like somebody told him he would be able to do if he got to be king, er I mean governor. I guess when the Repugs were all saying 'NO' in lock-step last year that was mature behavior? Uh-huh.... riiiiiight.....

Hey Gov. Walker! You got an angry mob outside your door. Whatcha gonna tell them? Or are you even gonna talk to them? And if you do talk are you gonna do it yourself or 'have it done'. He's got a LOT to learn about people. Better start looking for another job. They act like they are gonna make you resign.... or squeal like a pig. Or both.

So the responsibility of the State Senators is not to participate in the governing process, but rather to cut and run out and hold their breath when politics work against there agenda

Their pay should be stopped, their insurance should be cancelled and they should receive no credit for service towards a pension for as long as this charade continues.

They were paid to govern not run and hide like little girls on a schoolyard

This walkout thing seems to be democrats way of "if you don't play our way, we'll take the ball and leave." They did the same thing in Texas in 2003. Cry babies, spoiled little children. If the republicans ever did something like that the babies would still be whining about it.

The loophole was left in the law and they used it. I think it was very clever. They used what they had at their disposal to get the job done. All the while the Rs cry (cry=operative word) foul, but no law has been broken.

I also find it very ironic that the WI repubs are asking for President Obama's help to force Democrats to return to the state legislature.

All they really want is for Governor Walker to sit with them to work out a compromise for this issue.

I also find it hypocritical to think that Republicans would not pull this same stunt given the same set of circumstances. Especially given that we watched them say NO repeatedly last year, vote after vote after vote..... At least the Dems plan is based in common sense and within the law.

Rob-523523

Bosslimo: "So, if we own a company, we have our rights, if we work for a company, we are to be slaves to them.... got it."

If that's how you feel then, don't go to work for a company. No job is a right, just as owning a company is not a right.

My appologies for construeing the context. By using the word "right" I have misled my intent. Please replace the word "right" with the word contract. A legal document agreed to by both parties involved. That will put into perspective my intended message.

forwhatitsworth

Sally is doing what?

Bob @ 1.199.....LOL, I had to respond to your message.

You show the value of the unions to the private sector, even as you think you are trashing them (unions). LOL

"I know a lot of businesses in Oregon that pay more in wage and benefits than union jobs because it is worth to keep unions out"......

Imagine that .... LOL the private sector employees are benefitting off the back of union workers/public sector employees union dues /representation.

These private employers are so concerned about having their employees unionize and have collective bargining etc, to where they would sooner or rather pay their private employees more to prevent this from happening. LOL

And you all are so ungrateful for this, and do not want to recognize what the unions have done to make your lives and workplace better, that you trash the unions at every hand, probably thinking that it is through your own efforts that you get the pay and benefits that you do get now.

Some of you guys need to get over your sense of self importance and belief that you are that important to a company that they cannot find another person to do your job and maybe at a cheaper rate and realize that without the unions you would not be able to bargain with these private employers for anything they did not want to give to you as salary or benefits package.

The private sector could treat you anyway they chose and there would be no one for you to appeal to, because there would be no govt agency formed where you as a private employee could file a greviance or complaint.

So it would seem that even without your direct input or representation by the unions you are receiving benefits from /off their (unions and union members) backs.

By the way I have worked in the private sector with no union represention, then the public sector with union represention , then the private sector where there was no union representation again.

So I am aware of how employees even licensed professionals are treated in both settings.

To other folks blaming the teachers for their childrens poor performance....

It is time that parents take responsibility for their children and their childrens' behaviour instead of expecting teachers to work miracles, to somehow make your children, who are so lacking in discipline and manners, learn and succeed. It is time to lead by example, place behaviour limits on your children, check homework etc.

When a child attend private school the parents expect their child/ren to learn because they are paying out mega bucks, so they put in the effort in their child/rens life and not allow these children to do whatever they chose with so much money on the line.

I, like my siblings attended private school because that was what was available at that time, and knew what my/our parents expected from me/us. Believe me .... discipline started at home. LOL

He just said "I won". I guess the rest was "poetic license".

He said he would let republicans ride if they sat in the back. This was all over the news, nothing new.

Comparing the economy to a bus ride he said the following “We can’t have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.” Oct 25, Woonsocket RI, My Hometown

Pretty simple for you Repubs defending "It's cloudy"..

just show the link that Obama said verbatum..."now shut up and go sit in the back"!<

btw - I did notice "It's cloudy" hasn't defended his words yet"!/P>

Cloudy, it was Michael Steele who made that comment as a parting shot at his

last public speaking event as RNC Chairman.

It's cloudy:

Congratulatiolns on your "win". Remember when they start to demand 70 hour work weeks, no paid holidays, and generally the "saping" of the workers benefits. Not only, state and city employees but especially when the Corporations start taking and lowering YOUR benefits and wages. REMEMBER that you thought it was a GREAT "win" today; it was for you because no one cut your waqes and benefits TODAY! Perhaps you are right in looking at it as a win. But, I will assure you, the time will come when ALL of the workers of the USA will feel the heel of oppression form big corporations and the politicians. They will NOT stop with just the unions Next will come lowering all wages, even the minimum wage. You think it just the union member but when did anyone stop when they could get more savings and profit by taking from someone else. But for today, again, congratulations. I hope you will like what lies down the road for YOU! By the way, I'm no lib, but I am also no benign idiot either. I am retired and maybe should just keep my big mouth shut, I don't have a "dog" in this fight anymore!

The exact quote was: "we don't mind Republicans joining us; they can come along for the ride; but they have to sit in the back of the bus".

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?letter_id=5976465226

Do most people here sense the liberal angst?

It's cloudy:

Congratulatiolns on your "win". Remember when they start to demand 70 hour work weeks, no paid holidays, and generally the "saping" of the workers benefits. Not only, state and city employees but especially when the Corporations start taking and lowering YOUR benefits and wages. REMEMBER that you thought it was a GREAT "win" today; it was for you because no one cut your waqes and benefits TODAY! Perhaps you are right in looking at it as a win. But, I will assure you, the time will come when ALL of the workers of the USA will feel the heel of oppression form big corporations and the politicians. They will NOT stop with just the unions Next will come lowering all wages, even the minimum wage. You think it just the union member but when did anyone stop when they could get more savings and profit by taking from someone else. But for today, again, congratulations. I hope you will like what lies down the road for YOU! By the way, I'm no lib, but I am also no benign idiot either. I am retired and maybe should just keep my big mouth shut, I don't have a "dog" in this fight anymore!

Freaking awesome post. Someone who gets it. Why do private sector employees, after years of getting screwed by their companies, seem intent on tearing public sector employees down rather than asking their private sector firms for better benefits during the MOST PROFITABLE CORPORATE YEAR ON RECORD!

But, what America needs to understand, is that most of world is producing products similar to most of ours at pennies on the dollar, and unless we lower our wages, benefits, regulation expenses, and taxes across our entire economy, we will never be competitive in a world economy

so you cheer the race to the bottom and think that American's should work for slave wages like they do in Malaysia just so that the CEO's of our former-corporations (let's be honest, these aren't "American companies" anymore) can make millions or even billions...

Your offspring will be so proud...

FUnny how Waterdog cited dems "rewriting the facts" when it was a blatant conservative that started this post. Typical repub sitting on a comeback, only to use it at the most innappropriate moment.

And the violins play...

LettyMcD,

"when" the education system fails, It has already failed. Time to pull the plug on public education. It isn't education. Just compare our "graduates" with those from many other nations. No wonder we are falling behind.

LettyMcD

You may think you "won", but you'll realize your loss when your education system fails

As liberals have pointed out countless times on newsvine, our education system IS failing and we're way behind other countries. All of this happened under Unions. They obviously were just out for bigger salararies and not better education. If not, they performed poorly at their job and need to be replaced.

It's all over the media outlets on how many states are going broke. If people still don't know this, our education system has failed us in the biggest way by teaching students to ignore data like this if it doesn't come from a specific party.

Hawklady: You are not quoting the President, but a letter from an irate constituent - check the source you included. The President was referring to being in a family car - families ride shotgun, lobbyists sit in the back.

Breaking the unions is first on the neo-conservative agenda (it's not really Goldwater or Reagan conservatism - its some twisted version that advocates a system to pool all the wealth of America into a few families). Their goal is a plutocracy in America, not a democracy. In power, they will set up a new feudalism where only the very rich have any power- all others will simply serve them. And if you refuse, you'll live in abject poverty. Do you really think these people care about you? Get a clue. If you aren't part of their royal circle - you're a nobody. The no-nothing Tea-partiers are their pawns. If this was 1776, these plutocrats would be the ones running to the King of England to turn in the revolutionaries.

You actually think that politics is a football game?! What a strange little man you are. Let me tell you what will happen next. The next election cycle, Wisconsin will be a Democratic state and then this vote will be overturned. Walker is a fool. All that he has done is make people angry. What he should have done is gone to the Unions and begged for consessions.

please raise your Liberal Blinders long enough to understand....If the cost of living is reduced by the same percentage as wages and benefits, your lifestyle will not change, except that now our product will be viable in a world economy and jobs will stop going overseas

and you need to take off your reality blinders and realize that the cost of living here WILL NOT BE REDUCED when/if our wages become commensurate with those of slave laborers in Malaysia. When Ford moved production to Mexico saving millions (possibly billions) in labor costs, did the price of a focus go down? No, they continued to go up.

When companies go overseas, they don't lower the costs of their goods here. They milk it and charge up full price (or even more) than before for added profits. The price goes up, wages go down, and CEO profits/bonuses soar soar soar!

If I thought the price of food and gas would come down as our wages and benefits erode, you'd have a point. But no one seriously thinks this would be the case.

I live in Milwaukee, nice way to go Walker and thank you republicans. I hope we all will enjoy what's coming up, Next is to get rid of Minimum wages, get rid of the labor laws then companies can pay you as low as they want maybe $2 per hour like in China I mean $2 per day and no companies will send jobs over sea. I don't care because I have enough money and it actually gonna save me money. It is a win for WI and America HEHEHEHE.

Oh and here's the real take-away. If Walker really wanted to solve his states problems and was a good leader, he would have talked to the Unions instead of trying to bust them. Look at what Ford did recently and low-and-behold, they are doing really well. This was not about solving the state's budget problem, this was an ideological fight. Funny part is Walker thinks he is actually going to keep his office now. He's just made sure he and other Republicans will not get reelected in Wisconsin.

@Futyler:

In what world does the cost of living ever go DOWN? It simply is not possible. It will not happen- but your theory would be correct if it could happen. Food costs will not go down, housing prices will not go down, fuel costs will not go down, but wages are going down, as are job prospects, social security wages (possibly)- and an unprecedented amount of outsourcing, and in country outsourcing to robotics.

Unions fight for fair wages for everyone- something that I do contest. It should be easier for union employees to be fired. I agree. However, where would the subjectivity end? Scrambolo's assessment is quite accurate. This is indeed how the economics are constructed.

For those of you who equate Liberal with Democrat, you could not be FURTHER from the TRUTH.

Liberal=Republican

Liberal=little to no government interference in the public square, less taxes,less lawmaking that affects changes in the "quality of life" spectrum, such as the right to bear arms

Republican=all of the above

Democrat= diametrically opposed to the above

America could be gone forever. It saddens me to say this but we are broke, overrun by corporations, and our government, regardless of party affiliation, is co-opted by those corporations. For the first time in our nation's history we have little to no hope of a better future. When will the real Americans, such as You and I, the John Q. Publics, rally to restore? We should realize what has been taken from our reach; that what was once attainable is now a pipedream. This affects us all- the "new reality." It's time to reconceptualize and fight, or lie down and submit.

Lolly,

Senator Cunningham (R Missouri) is busy rewriting history. Because as we speak, she is working to roll back the Child Labor Laws to 1918.

Other GOP priorities include taking away health care, family planning and cancer screening from millions of women, union busting in Wisconsin and cutting cop's jobs.

While folks are dying in the middle east trying to get some signs of fairness and democracy in the 21st century, this Republican leadership is spending our own money to send us back to the 18th century.

I'm private sector. I make a tad over $60K a year at age 61 when I used to make somewhat more. I pay $237.39 every two weeks into my 401(k). I pay $100 into a health savings account because I have high deductible health insurance for which I pay another $95, and dental insurance of $23.50. I also pay another $45 for accidental death and life insurance for me and my wife. I'll have to work until I'm 66 for full SS benefits.

If I were public sector union, I'd have been retired for some time now, bringing in a living income. I'd have free health care for life.

Don't tell me that public and private sectors are equal. They aren't. I guaran-dam-tee you that most police and fire here in Ca. join because of the perks and benefits, and so do teachers. If the perks and bennies weren't so lucrative, they wouldn't do it. Would you?

Oh I see so when most of the country is making much lower wages all the prices are going to drop accordingly. Oh that's really cool.

You really believe that the US can drop to third world incomes and still maintain a 1st world standard of living? Really?

The ONLY thing that separates the 1st world from the third world is education, and standard of living (which includes social safety nets). That's it. Its not the military. Lots of third world nations have powerful armies. Its not the over all amount of wealth lots of third world countries have massive wealth (it just happens to be in the hands of a tiny percentage at the top sound familiar?). Its all in education and standard of living.

For years conservatives trumpeted that Communism would fail because ultimately it equalizes by making everyone poor. But Capitalism increases the quality of life and standard of living. Now Conservatives are being made to accept that high quality of life, is just not doable.

We all have to accept that we have to live poverty standards so our companies can be profitable. Nevermind that salaries and standards of living for those at the top of companies is still going to increase. Because the important thing isn't in production quality, or in safety, or worker's benefits. The important thing that we're all working for is that the C Club and the share holders can garner an ever growing percentage of money. And don't say that since they're absorbing all the profits of the company, and are hording far more resources than is reasonable for an individual, and that they can only have that level of profit because of the efforts of their employees. All of that is OK because they have "earned" it. They have current possession of the resources, so taking any of that back for the common good is theft. It doesn't matter if it was gained through unethical behavior, treachery, and dishonesty. They have it now so obviously they earned it. Now be good and go work harder to give them more. That's freedom! That's Liberty! That's what the Founding Father's risked revolution against the most powerful empire on earth to give us. Their great dream was that all men would one day serve under an entitled aristocracy. Its all the Declaration just read it!

scrambolo -- lower wages for some are inevitable. How do you think we can compete, even with higher productivity, when the rest of the world makes a fraction of what we do. I think we need to dump some of our bloat before we proceed too far.

Seriously! The first thing this corporate shill (Governor) did in office was give large corporations massive tax breaks. Why does this all sound familiar! According to several independent sources what had been essentially budget "neutrality" become a short fall!!! Guess who is making up the difference - working Americans. But that isn't the only reason why you will see this trend going Nation wide - the Republican's are going after the collective bargaining of "all" state and federal workers because they have traditionally supported the Democratic Party. This is POLITICS
dressed up as fiscal austerity (Carl Rove said as much - the only honest thing he has ever said)! Corporations will in the end be the only entities that benefit from Citizens United and armies of lobbyists. Wake up people - in the end they will privatize everything including the police and the fire department. Your house will burn if you missed a payment and Black Water will be the local constabulary. You think I'm joking - when it is all done and said America will have the look and feel of a some science fiction movie where morally bankrupt and yes overtly evil corporations are the government and run everything! Oh, and they will throw the best of the 19th century into the mix for good measure - debtors prison, work houses, cities suffocating in pollution (see London Fog). Our economy was tanked by Republican deregulation and Corporate greed and now there using the outcome as a pretext for going after American workers and every aspect of a once great and progressive society!

You nailed it Mike. The pig trough of the public sector is about to be downsized. Way past due.

b dune

will you show link where Obama said verbatum "now shut up and go sit in the back"?

Bruce Mclaughlin USN Ret..
He just said "I won". I guess the rest was "poetic license".

InniAudi
"Go sit in the back?" Racist much?

----------------------------------------[snip]----------------------------------------------

Morf101

Comparing the economy to a bus ride he said the following “We can’t have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.” Oct 25, Woonsocket RI, My Hometown

What's that clapping sound I'm hearing?!

I know!

That's the sound of...

OH_SNAP!

Man, that's like tripple P\/\/n4ge right there!!!!1!!111eleventy

While I am not a fan of Unions, I don't believe this strong arm tactic is good. I wonder how long it will be before Unions will be necessary again? 20-30 years? Someone above referenced that if the cost of labor went down, the cost of goods would go down as well. This is pure BS. If the cost of labor goes down, the price will remain the same or go up, because corporates are about maximizing profits. Period! If they are making $10 a widget now, and can reduce their costs to make the widget by 50%, they just maximized their profit and are now setting the level of profit expected by that new amount. All bonuses for the management will now be based on this new profit margin, and the worker will still trudge through production, further widening the gap between the haves and have nots.

@cloudy-

I am a conservative cheesehead and BHO's words are what scares me....Walker seems to have taken a page out of Obama's book and it may backfire on him. And that's the last thing we need to have happen here. No one from either side likes stuff rammed down their throats and only have a week to consider it. While a approve of the proposal, the way it's playing out may do more long term harm than good.

As a person born and raised in wisconsin, this vote tears my heart out.

The problem in this country, not just WI, was caused by big business and politicians. The republicans are blaming workers.

REMEMBER:
Workers didn't cause the housing collapse, Banks and Business did.
Workers didn't cause gas & oil prices over $3.50 a gallon, politicians and big business did.
Workers didn't cause the wall street collapse, Bernie madorff did, with his cronies and of course santioned by politicians.
Teachers didn't cause the education problem, the republican "No Chil left Behind" policy did it.

DO NOT BLAME THE WORKERS

Brilliant, brilliant, BRILLIANT... Precipitate the greatest recession in American History through deregulation. Fight a preemptive war (Daddy's war) without raising taxes to pay for it (first time in American history). Give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and think the jobs are going to fall mana from heaven (didn't happen). And after all this you blame the tanked economy on working Americans! Brilliant!

@ Futyler Tolosa,

You forget one thing. We have to stop buying from those companies who are outsourcing our jobs to other countries "to maximize profits". I stopped buying from Wal-Mart and Target because most of the items they sell are products made in other countries. I actually went in and looked for the "Made in the USA" label and didn't see it on 80% of the items. As long as we reward these companies for doing away with the American Worker, we are sunk, we just don't know it.

Brilliant, brilliant, BRILLIANT... Precipitate the greatest recession in American History through deregulation. Fight a preemptive war (Daddy's war) without raising taxes to pay for it (first time in American history). Give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and think the jobs are going to fall mana from heaven (didn't happen). Give tax breaks to corporations to send jobs overseas (sounds like treason to me.) Now wrap it all up in the American flag, show an American Eagle (do you hear the screech) and the best photo op of all history (Bush standing on top of the ruble of 9/11) -presto! And after all this you blame the tanked economy on working Americans! Brilliant!

Critical Thinker... Teachers were doing poorly long before NCLB became law. On the other hand, You had Michelle Rhee in DC firing the bad teachers and student averages were going up yearly.

Gas is so high not solely because of our politicians. OPEC members pretty much determine gas prices.

The housing collapse happened from Banks offering the homes because the Gov told them to. The worker is at fault for taking up ARM loans that they should have been smart enough to not take.

Banks had more to do with the Wall Street collapse than Madoff.

Futyler Tolosa, you and your ilk who help vote the Republicans into office, are the reason why America is falling into Second World status with Third World status not far behind. You don't seem to get the fact that if wages, benefits, etc. are cut, the corporations are not going to slash prices or the cost of food won't go down. It is all about money. Why do you think companies go overseas to make their products and avoid taxes in the US, because the bottom line to them is how much money they can make. They don't care about your welfare or anybody else. It is money and greed!

Thanks for nothing and dragging the USA down. The race to the bottom has only just begun.

Let me guess - your not a Working American? Or if you are you are the exception and everyone is not up to your standards? What is it about people on the right - they constantly do the, "I'm more patriotic then you" at every turn but yet they seem to have at their heart an utter contempt for their fellow Americans! It isn't about loving America... it is about loving your fellow man (I think I heard someone called Jesus talking about this).

This whole mess was precipitated by the Republican Party and unfettered corporate greed and now they are using this as a pretext for going after people (Working Americans) who did not cause this problem in the first place but will in the end suffer the most because of it. Politically it is brilliant - BLAME THE VICTIM! And when they do away with collective bargaining Nation wide and for all time then only the corporations will benefit from Citizens United!!!!!!

please raise your Liberal Blinders long enough to understand....If the cost of living is reduced by the same percentage as wages and benefits, your lifestyle will not change, except that now our product will be viable in a world economy and jobs will stop going overseas....and any organization that's not smart enough to understand that that need to be eliminated

Note the somewhat idiotic belief that:

A: Labor costs will decline

B: That imaginary decline in costs would lead to lower prices

The real problem is that coorporations have no compeititon, and the ones that do typically do not compete on price [Its all about the "Features" now]. As there is no price compeititon, there is no mechanism to lower prices.

Coorporations have had their most profitable years in history, partly due to a decline in wages that has been going on for well over a decade. And tell me, have prices of goods dropped in proportion to our declining wages? Absolutly NOT!

Supply-side theory is hopelessly flawed, it assumes that if a good is made for cheap, someone, somewhere will buy it, creating an economic exchange. Problem is, even this theory depends that people have the WAGES to pay for said goods. As wages continue to decline, consumer spending will also drop, eventually reaching a point where the economy will tumble. You see this same EXACT mechanic in the current recession.

As such, you produce a short-term savings, but long term economic disaster, all based on a theory economists have largly said would never work for the past 30 years. And in response to that trouble, you'll see these same people give coorporations even more cost savings, at the expense of the worker, driving down consumer spending even more.

The US economy is looking more and more like the Mexican one each day. A small upper class that controls the majority of the wealth, and a large lower class with no money to spend. Coorporations do GREAT, exporting to other countries, but at home, due to no one buying goods, the economy is in the pits. This WILL happen to the US, and Republicans will have no one but themselves to blame.

PleaseNo: You reference the very first comment by Cloudy who floated us all a bit of misinformed 'ramming'.

Those words were spoken from the podium by Michael Steele on his exit. They were Steele's very last two words as Chair of RNC and he would not deny it.

American Jobs are going overseas because.......... you cannot sell a Mexican, that makes a dollar a day, a pair of levis made by a worker that costs $20 per hour, and you cannot sell an American a pair of levis made in America while the store shelves are filled will the Mexican Version

You can't sell an American good to a Mexican because mexicans don't have money to spend, because they aren't paid in the first place. And as a results of those savings, Mexican goods can undercut american ones.

Democrats solution: Allow workers to make more money, giving them the ability to pay for the higher quality [american] goods.

Republicans solution: Reduce worker wages farther, so coorporations can [maybe] reduce their profits to make their goods more attractive.

I'll take the first, thanks. Its sad that Americans don't think their wages should be adjusted to match inflation anymore...

This movement should be extencded to ALL UNIONs. The leader in Egypt was like the Union and the people got fedup. What puts Union workers above Public workers? Bias to get free bene's,pay and time off. Unions at all levels (local to Federal) should be outlawed. Ones skills will reflect ones pay. It's time to be accountable for tax money at ALL LEVELs and stop the FREE Ride for Unions.

The same liberals who claim to be champions of the unions (and workers) buy foreign goods at much higher rates than conservatives. Boy they (libs) sure do complain about all the jobs being shipped over seas....AND THEN THEY BUY FOREIGN PRODUCTS!

Want proof? go to a democratic fundraiser and look at how may toyota's and subaru's are in the parking lot. Go to a republican one and you will see a sea of F-150's

I hope everyone who is cheering this vote also applauds the fact that they made sure the fat cats on the top get to keep more of the money they won't have to pay the workers of this country. They knew what they were doing, first secure my right to amass more wealth than man has every made, second stick it to the workers. GOP dream come true.

Its not the worker making 20 dollars an hour that makes the levi's unobtainable. Its the management overhead that doen't put anything into the actual product but rakes in 540 dollars an hour. How is this is union's fault?

Mike Kelley

I'm in a public sector union, started working at age 20.

After 15 years in, the union helped me fight for a promotion I deserved but didn't get due to nepotsim, with the unions help I won. Now I have 30 years in but I will have to put in at least 15 to 20 more for FULL Benifits (if I and they still exist then) thats 45 to 50 years of service.

I will recieve no SS benefits, and due to recent changes most likely will have to pay for Supplemental insurance out of my pension.

Retirement Age extension is being bandied about at the state house which could add up to 5 yrs to my retirement plans. (what are those?)

With Health care benefits decreasing while costs are increasing. Things aren't looking so good there either.

Property taxes keep increasing taking along my fixed rate mortage which aint looking so fixed.

I WISH I had a job paying $60K a year, even so

Thanks to the UNION I HAVE a job AND Healthcare.

15,000 ? You do realize that would not even fill one end zone section of Lambeau Field. Kinda weak for a blue state. Ah, we all miss the 60's when the Left knew how to protest. Remember Chicago, Daily,bashing some heads, the good ol'days.

And what about the children? All those teachers denying all those children an education. What about the poor children who now will go hungry without their Michelle Obama breakfast, lunch, and dinners? If their parents are forced to feed them they might get fat !

Unions are killing Wisconsin children !

Hey, this is fun acting like a Democrat.

Amazing, just amazing.

The teachers let the students get out of class to attend this rally, and the students really have no idea why they are there in the first place (see below link). Maybe the students are failing some of their classes and are getting "credits" for attending.

• http://weaselzippers.us/2011/02/16/wisconsin-teacher-takes-high-school-students-to-union-protest/

Other videos show sideline "cheerleaders" provoking the students in their protests. A close look at some of these "cheerleaders" might have one envision them as a teacher. Take a close look to the bottom left of the following video:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-O-ngDdKZw

If I were a parent paying for my child's higher education and the child was one of these UNIFORMED protesters, I would be extremely UPSET.

Want proof? go to a democratic fundraiser and look at how may toyota's and subaru's are in the parking lot. Go to a republican one and you will see a sea of F-150's

You ARE aware of where those cars are actually assembled, right? You kinda blew up your own argument...

The leader in Egypt was like the Union and the people got fedup.

WTH are you smoking?

What puts Union workers above Public workers?

Nothing. They simply put forward an agreement that Business/States AGREED TO. Nothing is stopping individual business/states from not resigning a deal with a union and replacing the workers, after all.

Bias to get free bene's,pay and time off.

The benifits package is paid for as part of the labor agreement, no different then your standard employer sponsered healthcare package. And LOTS of private sector fails have personal time off policies [at least here in NY].

Unions at all levels (local to Federal) should be outlawed.

Yes, workers have no rights to negotiate their own pay, it must be mandated for them. How very un-democratic.

Ones skills will reflect ones pay.

That assumes that competing business offer compeiting wages. No compeititon leads directly to wage deflation, such as we've seen for the past decade in the private sector. But hey, guess that means an american worker is worth less today then he was in 2000...

Yes, in a PERFECT capitalist environment, there would be no need for Unions. That being said, as coorporations do not compete significantly [especially on prices and wages], we see the deadly combination of rising prices and falling wages. Hence, Unions are still needed.

It's time to be accountable for tax money at ALL LEVELs and stop the FREE Ride for Unions.

What "free rides" are you referring to? Yes, some unions desperatly need reform [most teachers unions need to wake up, and understand that performance based, and not longevity based tenure is the way to go], but the majority of unions do NOT get "free rides", and in fact are worse off then their private sector counterparts.

Look Byl and others supporting these unions. Let's just say we take all of the assets from the rich and spread it around to the states and federals government. Fine, lets be generous and say we lower our debt across the board 50%.

THEN WHAT?

Then you only have the middle class paying taxes and the level of spending will STILL not be sustainable. You still have federal, state and local employees stomping their feet saying GIMME, GIMME, GIMME.

It's been a good run, but it's time to stop the madness. NO ONE has a RIGHT to a generous pension plan or health insurance or anything except, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I'm sorry not everyone can be management or business owner material. That's life. You can, however, work your butt off to get to a level of self sustainable if you choose. If the world were made up of nothing but executives very little would get done, but at the same time, if the world were made up of only blue collar workers, we would have never see the advancements we have. In order for the private sector to succeed, someone has to have the money to start a business or the idea or know how or sheer determination. Only then can they employee those without those attributes. Without the private sector the public sector cannot survive.

profits and management will always be the same. the only thing that effects costs is workers pay. so there you go. anytime they have to pay someone $20/hr to sew a seam, then that garment is going to be too expensive for most americans. my wife is a RN with degfree and 20+ yrs experience. takes care of all those family members who need special things. she makes $25/hr and has to pay for her own insurance. what makes your sewing machine operator so valuable

This is the funniest quote from the story yet. If the Dems/Libs/Unions want to be taken seriously they need to stop making retarded comments like this;

"The story around the world is the rush to democracy," said Democratic Sen. Bob Jauch of Poplar. "The story in Wisconsin is the end of the democratic process."

So Sen. Bob (the nob) Jauch's definition of the democratic process is disrupting the legislative process of the democratically elected Wisconsin House and Senate? Wait! Is he talking about what him and his ilk are doing?

Look Byl and others supporting these unions. Let's just say we take all of the assets from the rich and spread it around to the states and federals government. Fine, lets be generous and say we lower our debt across the board 50%.

THEN WHAT?

Then you would produce economic growth, raising GDP while the debt remained relativly flat, reducing the proportion of Debt as a percentage of GDP.

The country runs on CONSUMER SPENDING; as such, having 1% of the population make over 50% of the income is NOT a sustainable model. Those figures are actually pretty close to countries like Mexico, and you see how well they are doing...

the only thing that effects costs is workers pay

So, the rising costs of oil, needed for both production and transportation of goods has NOTHING to do with the cost of a good? What about international businiss practices?

Secondly, if workers aren't paid sufficent wages, who is going to purchase the good you spent so much to create? Henry Ford was a genus in that regard; he paid his line workers the then unheard of wage of $1/hr to produce his cars, creating a market for his product in the process. Again, take a country like Mexico, where workers mass produce goods, but can't afford to buy them themselves. Great for the coorporation, who makes a killing overseas, but bad for mexico, which has no real economic growth to show for those proifts.

As long as people believe business profits have ANY effect on economic growth ,the US will continue to struggle economically.

So Sen. Bob (the nob) Jauch's definition of the democratic process is disrupting the legislative process of the democratically elected Wisconsin House and Senate? Wait! Is he talking about what him and his ilk are doing?

Unions are essentially representative bodies that represent their workers views, no different then a political party. As such, its no stretch to say that taking away Unions rights to negotiate is testamount to being anti-democratic in practice, as your saying that workers have no right to negotiate for fair wages, leaving it up to the company.

it's funny how the CEOs and shareholders keep demanding that the workers need to make less, but the weralthy ceos and shareholders need to make more.

"it's the working class that's the problem, they need to learn to live off of our scraps"

FUTyler, when do you ever sww the CEOs or the stockholders saying that they need to make sacrifices for the company (never)

Actually I didn't say tax the rich (in this thread) what I said was, bust up the unions, give the american worker less of a voice and put the screws to the common man all you want. You won't see a dime of these savings. Not in your taxes, not in your consumer costs, not anywhere. Quality may suffer. Real people may suffer. But not the bottom line for the already wealthy.

So if I take your fantasy land trip where we tax the wealthy 50% What would happen then? Most likely we'd see infrastructure being rebuilt, schools would get the fixes they desperately need, there may be new shelters opened for the less fortunate. I can see how this bleak world view would make you quake in your boots.

Wanna compete with the world? Try eliminating the profit entitlement.

"The story around the world is the rush to democracy," said Democratic Sen. Bob Jauch of Poplar. "The story in Wisconsin is the end of the democratic process."

Nice try at a 'spin', but it would seem that STOPPING a vote by democratically elected legislators more nearly constitutes the 'end of the democratic process'.

Comparing the economy to a bus ride...

Not a bus ride. He pointed out that the Republicans drove the economy into a ditch, in large part by catering to wealthy special interest groups; that it had been left to others to pull the car out; and now that the car was ready to get back on the road, "We can't have special interests sitting shotgun. We have to have middle class families up front."

It was an analogy to a family car ride.

skelmbc

progress would be slower and more sustainable. The biggest thing that would occur under your scenario is that the peak wealth would be distributed evenly enough so that the accumulations could not be used to subvert the will and needs of the many, as is not the case today with the corporate ownership of government and the actions of the unjust, greedy evil men who have destroyed us for their own gain as they owe no allegiance to nation, only allegiance to mammon.

Hmmm, my workers made me profits, big profits. Hmm do I share with them for their increased effort, or do I pocket it as my due. Hmmm, guess I'm the decider. Screw them.

When there is plenty it belongs to me. When there is want, we share.

Save the world, kill a captitalist.

Cloudy,

That's a very fair point about Obama's "We won" quote. I was very diasppointed with that comment from Obama. One of the reasons I voted for him was that I didn't believe him to the kind of person to say stuff like "I earned capital and now I intend to spend it". Yet he did.

Still, at some point you'd think one side or the other would learn from history.
1) GOP pushes too hard, ignores left.

2) Dems win in a landslide.

3) GOP legislation is wiped out and then some.

4) Dems push too hard, ignore right... wash, rinse, repeat.

Leaving aside the particular legislation, I just don't see the value in pushing something through that is so vehemently opposed by the other side. Not only does it get you kicked out of office the next cycle, but it ends of facing the same fate the healthcare law now seems destined to face.

Seems to me Walker and the GOP have a better opportunity to leave some sort of lasting legacy by making some concessions...

Futyler Tolosa..................the one problem I have with your claim of cheaper goods from other country's is easy...what those people are paid are not living wages and their governments only allow them to do so much. As for cheaper cost in goods. you are also getting cheaper products....however, if you will notice, all name brand products now made in theis country that are sold in most stores are made either in China, Japan or Korea..but those same products are no cheap by any means.

This is still the United States of America and the Constitution has not yet been buried, so if I wish to speak, even if I am a minority, I will still be able to do that. So, screw your "sitting down and shutting up".

Uhmmm....does anyone actually READ the article they are commenting on? Where is there one word about corporations? This is about public employees that are paid by the state and taxpayer.

Scrambolo....while I understand your post, and although you say you're retired, I doubt you're old enough to remember a time when workers had no rights.

Up until the early 1900's and the real formation of organized unions, there were a lot situations of laborers being used and abused. We've come a long way.

Unions were there to protect the safety of workers. Today we have OSHA, along with other local and state agencies, that require employers to maintain a safe working environment

Unions prevented employers from taking advantage of poor economic times by exploiting workers with slave labor wages. This was before a federal minimum wage was established.

Unions provided benefits and forced employers to provide benefits to those injured on the job or laid off. Workers compensation laws are in every state and mandate that an employer is responsible for the injuries, lost wages and any disability a person suffers in their course of employment. Unemployment now covers those that involuntarily lose their position for a period of time until they can get another job.

Unions forced employers to allow people to retire and pay them via pensions, etc. Today we have social security. It wasn't around when Unions were still needed.

Unions were formed to protect workers from having to work extreme hours. The departments of labor of each state now mandate that. They also have child labor laws to prevent the exploitation of the youthful.

So, what exactly do unions do besides allowing someone to work for a lower wage if they want? It is a free country.

This absence tactic has been done before in other states.

After the minority GOP obstructed 420 bills passed by the House from 2009 to 2010 elections, they got a lot of nerve criticizing the Dems on anything like this.

The WI bill is really an assault on unions, not about the budget. As usual, GOP has tried a bait and switch to try and get what it really wants. Dems literally didn't stand for it.

"The plan is to try and slow this down because it's an extreme piece of legislation that's tearing this state apart," Sen. Jon Erpenbach said in a telephone interview.

the reason why he and the the other pos left, or should i say, went to go pout, was so they could help ag on the issue tearing the state apart. but hey.... what part of broke dont these idiots understand? oh, i forgot, nothing new when it comes to democrats, and the unions, the word "BROKE" just isnt in their vocabulary. well there's 2 ways to go about this, i see walker taking the more responsible approach, trying to at least keeping the people working. but hey... you want to do it that way fine! then dont bother crying when your standing in the unemployment line with the rest of us.... cause to be perfectly honest, it doesnt matter to me either way. welcome to today people, where you cant have everything your way without a little sacrifice....

now go to your corners and pout some more.

attn libbie Jethro's

you have posted on and babbled about and dished on MANY things that conservatives have said and VERY SELDOM qouted "verbatim" what was said...but then that is the way of the Jethro's

here is what your king did say and it's pretty damn m close to what the poster said, not to mention that your claims of "superior intellect" would lead one to belive that you "got the message"

He said: "we can't have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

kinda hard to tell if the stupidity of denying what he said is an act or real......you look it up

Hey fool, why are we broke...oh yeah it was Boob JR that almost put us into another great depression-so forgive me if I don't take Republitards economic advice!

Bottom line teachers are paid terribly, and deserve to get some sort of retirement. They take your little gems and educate them-you don't help at all, you don't even pay attention. They work well over forty hours/week without extra pay to teach your kids. My wife was supposed to get an increase in pay from 40K/yr to 45 (after working 20yrs(!), but the state froze her automatic step (step up is for number of years on the job). She now gets paid about 6k more than a starting teacher for 20yrs experience. She loves her job, but is strangled with paperwork, and having to update a computer grade line (for 3rd grade) that nobody reads! Parents are mostly grateful for her work, but are too busy to show up on parent night (my wife attends for free). She gets slightly more respect than a day care employee, and pay that most college grads (those who major in USEFUL areas) would not accept. She has a friend who is single, with no kids, who cannot afford to buy a house on her pay-she will NEVER be able to afford a house on her own! So before you applaud the Republitards for being so smart and thrifty, remember that their goal is to destroy public education, and so far, they are winning!

Why should the Dems vote if their vote will not change anything? The Republicans own it. Why should I vote if I am not either Dem or GOP? They own the government.

Why would the Dems do this in full view of the world if they had any other worthwhile choice?

This, is a civil war without bullets.

they deserve to work like everyone else...one would think that our children would have better educations given to babble you posted...try "Waiting for Superman" for a glimpse of what teachers unions are doing to the public school system...it ain't pretty

hey Jill...did you say the same thing when the Healthcare Reform Scam and the Stupulous Bill were being crafted behind closed doors?...I think not, that is not the way of the liberal Jethro, or Jethrine as the case may be

Duck

so you are telling us that the all powerful union crime syndicate didn't properly "colletively bargain" for your wife...that sounds like a personal problem...and shows that being part of the union crime syndicate isn't that helpfull now doesn't it

how many of these "teachers" have missed school time hanging out at the statehouse?...that is tantamount to a strike and they should be fired for an illegal strike...

...oh , and according to people in the city , these people have been leaving litter all over the place , also typical of the liberal Jethro, you know, "save the environment" and all...

skeptic

you liberal Jethro's had a "super majority" during that time and a Jethro in the White House...republicans couldn't obstruct anything without the help of some of your liberal Jethro's...

usually when someone walks off the job, they're fired. How are those democrat senators still employed?

AND.......why are school children being dragged to these protests? That's no place for a child

@ Joe 2.75

Everything you have state is true. We have LAWS which were passed because of unions which protect workers. However currently in the state of Wisconsin we have a LAW which says that public employees have the right to collectively bargain. The current legislature is trying to pass a NEW LAW which will take away that right. What is to stop national legislators from passing NEW LAWS which can do away with OSHA, minimum wage, etc. Then where will we be?

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
...
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

--Pastor Martin Niemöller

"However, Niemöller only gradually abandoned his sympathies with National Socialism and even made pejorative remarks about Jews of faith while protecting—in his own church—baptised Christians, persecuted as Jews by the Nazis, due to their or their forefathers' Jewish descent. In one sermon in 1935, he remarked: "What is the reason for [their] obvious punishment, which has lasted for thousands of years? Dear brethren, the reason is easily given: the Jews brought the Christ of God to the cross!"

hmmm...sound like Mel Gibson

how come the liberal Jethro's aren't up in arms about the Hilter signs and other such hate speech from the criminal teachers union crime syndicate members who are striking illegally?

they aren't because liberal Jethro's aren't really against "hate speech" when they are the one leveling it. Where is Obobo the Clown and his "civility" sermons?...hate speech is the Jethro forte and it is one of their finest traits

Uhmmm....does anyone actually READ the article they are commenting on?

Judging from pretty much every post here, nothing but the headline. I'm not sure some of them made it all the way through that.

Can we get the Dems to go hide in another country? Mexico seems to like them.

Isn't there any kind of law forbidding public servants from leaving their job simply because they have no idea what to do?

commonsense..."He pointed out that the Republicans drove the economy into a ditch"

That 'sound bite' is getting a little old. A Republican President and a Democratic Congress may have driven the economy to the side of the road, but it was the Democrats in total control that "Drove the car into the ditch".

It's Cloudy, It's GWB's fault

Hey Libs...We WON....Now shut up and go sit in the back.
Sound familiar? It should...they're obamas words

Obama never said that. Stop lying.

InniAudi

"Go sit in the back?" Racist much?

Liberal Democrats didnt seem to mind when Obama said it? Guess that makes Obama a racist?

Lawmakers running out of town? People take to the streets? What are we, Egypt?

The left couldn't say enough evil about the "radical" Tea Partiers, organizing protests and rallies. But then, protests and rallies are only noble if run by liberals, didn't you know?

Can you imagine what they would have said if the Repubs ran away when it came time for the Health Care Reform vote? I think Joe on Main Street can see the hypocrisy here and is not buying into it.

Yes Critical Thinker (Maine), blame the worker is right and blame the unions. Unions have created an environment that promotes greed and laziness amongst the members, not to mention strong arming idiot demorats into signing these ridiculous agreements that have all but bankrupted those liberal states. Look at CA, NY, NJ the list goes on and on.

Why shouldn't these people be accountable for their jobs just as the rest of us are? Unions are a disease, we've got the cure.

Everyone keeps referring to one state that has teachers getting paid $110,000/yr. That amound does not apply to all states. I'm in California. My step-mother, as I mentioned before, just retired from teaching High School. Her Salary before retiring after nearly 40 years of teaching was $70,000/yr. She has a masters degree in English. A masters degree in many other fields brings in six figures in most cases. So a degreed individual that has chosen to teach is getting paid less than people with the same level of education going into business.

Furthermore, where does the States cut back on first when they are experiencing financial crises? They attack the public education and start cutting back on educational programs which means cutting back on teacher's jobs.

Of all the programs that our taxes paid for, Education is one that IS a good tax expense. They need to cut back on the useless programs that are generally kept because they are some legislator's baby.

I do agree that Public School Teachers need to be held accountable with how they are teaching. And stop passing our kids, just to get rid of them. Not all districts are guilty of this problem, but enough are that are making the news and giving the profession a bad name.

You guys knocking on the teachers, you are going to end up shooting yourselves in the foot. You need to tackle the teaching problems from another angle and not attacking their bargaining power.

Breaking up Unions has always been on the Republican Agenda since the first Unions were established. The American Legion was established by the Republican Party for the sole purpose of breaking up Unions back in the 1920's when they were speading Anti-Semitic and Anti-Communist Propaganda after WWI.

MGinRochester

It's Cloudy, It's GWB's fault

Hey Libs...We WON....Now shut up and go sit in the back.
Sound familiar? It should...they're obamas words

Obama never said that. Stop lying.

Hmmm, I guess you think this video was doctored huh?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-to-gop-%E2%80%98they-can-come-for-the-ride-but-they-have-to-sit-in-back/

I bet you think he never called Republicans the ENEMY either? Tell me, does that include BLACK republicans or just the white ones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnnwJ1rgCnM&feature=related

am I sure there are times when a CEO takes a voluntary hit when the company is in trouble...YES

actually, most unions will take the cut when there isn't any other choice. the real problem with whats happening here is the attempt to completely destroy the public employee unions. I do feel tht they have grown too powerful at the state level, and need to reduce their influence, but gutting them completely without even talking beforehand is not going to help anyhting.

DrowningGrover

"The price goes up, wages go down, and CEO profits/bonuses soar soar soar!"

So, bottom line is that you are jealous of the success of others and feel that they owe you something. They don't. You have the right to pursue happiness, but not at the expense of others. Make it on your own and become an America dream.

so Bob, does the "Pursuit of the almighty dollar" justify any action that will make the poor even poorer as long as the rich and powerful are allowed to keep them "in their place"?

it's one thing if the CEO increases profitability of a company without putting it entirely on the backs of the employees, I agree that they should be rewarded well for doing just that. it's another thing when the CEO forces the employess to take cuts in pay and benefits while collecting an enormous bonus and not taking a similar salary cut and still recieving a ridiculous bonus for forcing employees to suffer. any idiot can just cut employees/employee pay and tell them "work harder".

and feel that they owe you something.

actually they do, they owe an employee a decent wage for a decent job done. something that you clearly don't comprehend.

Welcome to the poor people/rich people world.

Ya say ya want a revolution...?

Please explain the real world??? Like when the private sector brings this country to its knees and no one is responsible for the mess they created??? How many people has the justice department prosecuted for the financial mess??? NOT ONE, so not only is it ok to steal and commit fraud but will give you all the money you need to fix the problem, right. Or would you speaking of the real world where we must honor contracts for AIG and the likes but low hanging fruit such as public employees contracts because we all live in our mansions driving Maserati's to our $50,000 jobs, really??? These people are your neighbors and friends, oh and by the way they pay a portion of their own salary by the mere fact that they live and work for the State or local municipality. Do you pay a portion of your salary??? Democrats are awful but the Republicans are even worse... I assume you are making over $250,000, oh no, so you protecting your future lottery winnings??? get real...

Well said Scott. In the real world we all get paid based upon our efforts...not adjustments to inflation or pre-negotiated wage increases. We are also employed at will.

The public sector employees should be held to the same standards. That's not harsh...it's fair.

Wake up America!

they said in the article that wisconsin has been a rock of "employees rights".

when did it become a "RIGHT" to be a union worker?

here in texas the union is weaker than a 3 dollar bill. the unions have no "rights" here since texas is a right to work state. so how is this infringing on their liberties?

infact....

how many parents had to stay home to watch the kids?

so the union is showing just why this needs to happen. they have affected more lives than just their own by staying home, so way to go unions!!!!

keep proving exactly why your methods are outdated!!

your lucky to have a job you over paid do nothings!!

"we all get paid based upon our efforts"

REALLY Dave? Since when was a teaching job a piece of cake? Those people who make sure your brats don't turn out to be idiots probably clock more hours in a week than you do in a month. It isn't a 9-5 job.

Add to that the money they spend out of their own pockets just to make sure the kids have supplies (because the schools can't afford to pay for it), the 30+ kids per class that they are responsible for, AND the ungrateful, idiot parents who refuse to understand why their kid got an "F" for never doing their homework, and their Level of Effort probably far surpases yours or any of your coworkers. It is a truly thankless position, proven by the attitudes demonstrated on this forum alone.

Here is a dose of reality: you think these people are so useless? then pull your kids out of school and see how far they get in life

OMG really...

Umm - Texas is an "at will" state. My employer makes everyone sign a document every year stating we understand that.

People should be outraged to see unions attacked. Unions are the reason we have child labor laws, minimum wage and those things (pesky to corporations) that we call benefits - workers rights, 40 horu workweeks, paid time off including vacation, etc.

The more power this country gives to corporations via their puppets, the Republicans, the more I see us returning, not just to the late 1800s, but all the way back to Europe of the Dark Ages when business owners paid people starvation wages because THEY COULD.

Next stop nepotism and cronyism in government hiring.

I agree, welcome to the real world.

Boy you conservatives sheep following lost puppies just don't get it. Unions bulit this country, yes not all Unions are good, but the majority of them do a good job. I love how you think that public employees do nothing make to much and have great benefits. You don't know "WTH" you are talking about most of these people make 30,000 a year and pay taxes just like you and me. Bottom line is this is nothing but union busting period. There has never been any conservative President that has ever done anything good for the American people. All of the labor laws workers protection rights, were started by unions, and the democratic party. You sheep won't wake up until this country becomes a 3rd world country. The conservatives want people to work for pennies $7-$10 an hour with very little benefits. Try living on that wage. Its not the unions fault that the states gov't screwed up the money that was there same can be said for the feds. If this continues i can see the American people standing up to these whack jobs and what you see happening in the Middle East will happen here.

Seriously! The first thing this corporate shill (Governor) did in office was give large corporations massive tax breaks. Why does this all sound familiar! According to several independent sources what had been essentially budget "neutrality" become a short fall!!! Guess who is making up the difference - working Americans. But that isn't the only reason why you will see this trend going Nation wide - the Republican's are going after the collective bargaining of "all" state and federal workers because they have traditionally supported the Democratic Party. This is POLITICS
dressed up as fiscal austerity (Carl Rove said as much - the only honest thing he has ever said)! Corporations will in the end be the only entities that benefit from Citizens United and armies of lobbyists. Wake up people - in the end they will privatize everything including the police and the fire department. Your house will burn if you missed a payment and Black Water will be the local constabulary. You think I'm joking - when it is all done and said America will have the look and feel of a some science fiction movie where morally bankrupt and yes overtly evil corporations are the government and run everything! Oh, and they will throw the best of the 19th century into the mix for good measure - debtors prison, work houses, cities suffocating in pollution (see London Fog). Our economy was tanked by Republican deregulation and Corporate greed and now there using the outcome as a pretext for going after American workers and every aspect of a once great and progressive society!

Unions made the middle class possible. When they and all they worked to build is dismantled. You peasants on the right will be the first to moan, cry and whine about how bad things are. But who are you going to blame then?

What's both hilarious and sad is that if you guys on the right get your way. Eventually liberals will get tired of your whining and build you new Unions to protect you. And yeah you'll fight us all the way when we do. Then when the world doesn't end you'll join the unions and become proud members enjoying your benefits, salary, house, and shiny car that you "earned". You'll get all patriotic about how we live in the best country on earth and how you all worked so hard to get it there without any help. Then a natural recession will hit and someone on the right will say its those freaking unions strangling our businesses! And then you'll all jump right back in. Well that's assuming there isn't a new minority to blame at the time.

Cloudy wrote:

Hey Libs...We WON....Now shut up and go sit in the back.

You didn't. Why should we?

Really Markets!! then why is Texas unemployment rate is above 9% I have friends that live in Texas and its not that great down there is you say and think it is. You have a whacked out Governor also who thinks that Texas should succeed from the union.

Brilliant, brilliant, BRILLIANT... Precipitate the greatest recession in American History through deregulation. Fight a preemptive war (Daddy's war) without raising taxes to pay for it (first time in American history). Give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and think the jobs are going to fall mana from heaven (didn't happen). Give tax breaks to corporations to send jobs overseas (sounds like treason to me.) Now wrap it all up in the American flag, show an American Eagle (do you hear the screech) and the best photo op of all history (Bush standing on top of the ruble of 9/11). And after all this you blame the tanked economy on working Americans! Brilliant!

Tank repeating your posts does not make you any more right.

As a 21 year union member, this NEEDS to happen. Sad but true.

If the state goes bankrupt they can void all union contracts.

The state is billions in the hole... they can not raise taxes enough to cover the deficit, and the rich can vote with their feet (move)

Cry all you want, it must happen to protect EVERYONE in the state

Texas unemployment rate is much less than the national average and has experienced the most population growth. Texas has more net job creation in the past fews years than the other 49 states combined. Rick Perry doesn't want to seceed, but most of his constiteunts do. It is the bizarre "give me what I want - not earn" mentality that is crushing the country and dragging Texas down with it. Quit moaning about your wage and focus on what you are worth. Wages must equal the value someone will pay for the service.

I sense a great Leftist angst rocking the rose colored Leftist Wack Job world. I've noticed that a lot of reposting is going on with the same info.

Right Tank?

Rodney-1111620,

I apologize, though my words bare repeating. Now let me ask you did you understand what I was saying - this whole mess was precipitated by the Republican Party and unfettered corporate greed and now they are using this as a pretext for going after people (Working Americans) who did not cause this problem in the first place but will in the end suffer the most because of it. Politically it is brilliant - blame the victim! And when they do away with collective bargaining Nation wide and for all time then only the corporations will benefit from Citizens United!!!!!!

Texas has more net job creation in the past fews years than the other 49 states combined.

Lies, that distinction goes to New York.

i would venture to say, Wisconsin's problems occured as a result of the politicians putting the general fund into the stock market. During to good years, nobody noticed. Now the stock market crashed, the general fund is $ XX Billion in the hole, but it's not the unions that caused it.
The unions keep the wolves at bay. Big business is the enemy.

The republicans are blaming workers.

REMEMBER:
Workers didn't cause the housing collapse, Banks and Business did.
Workers didn't cause gas & oil prices over $3.50 a gallon, politicians and big business did.
Workers didn't cause the wall street collapse, Bernie madorff did, with his cronies and of course santioned by politicians.
Teachers didn't cause the education problem, the republican "No Chil left Behind" policy did it.

DO NOT BLAME THE WORKERS

Amazing, just amazing.

The teachers let the students get out of class to attend this rally, and the students really have no idea why they are there in the first place (see below link). Maybe the students are failing some of their classes and are getting "credits" for attending.

• http://weaselzippers.us/2011/02/16/wisconsin-teacher-takes-high-school-students-to-union-protest/

Other videos show sideline "cheerleaders" provoking the students in their protests. A close look at some of these "cheerleaders" might have one envision them as a teacher. Take a close look to the bottom left of the following video:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-O-ngDdKZw

If I were a parent paying for my child's higher education and the child was one of these UNIFORMED protesters, I would be extremely UPSET.

Sven - I sense a great Leftist angst rocking the rose colored Leftist Wack Job world

Yes, the great leftist angst of watching while a government of the people for the people dismantles the rights of the worker. The rose colored glasses we wear that makes us think we should have some rights in the work place. That employees shouldn't be subjected to dangerous conditions and we should be paid a living wage. The Wack Job world of the middle class that just doesn't understand how to sit down and shut up when the rich bosses are talking. We will learn someday, once the right has stripped the people's power.

You cry about the government providing too much for the people while you dismantle the protections we have from the corporations who want to take everything away from us they can.

Byl,

Yes, the great leftist angst of watching while a government of the people for the people dismantles the rights of the worker. The rose colored glasses we wear that makes us think we should have some rights in the work place. That employees shouldn't be subjected to dangerous conditions and we should be paid a living wage. The Wack Job world of the middle class that just doesn't understand how to sit down and shut up when the rich bosses are talking. We will learn someday, once the right has stripped the people's power.

LOL! What are you doing wasting time posting on the internet?! Get back to working your 90 hours a week at $.15 an hour or I'll give your job to Marley. Marley won't complain. And Marley won't ask for seconds of gruel. Then it's debtors prison for you. You lazy shiftless good for nothing ungrateful slob! Now get back to work oiling that moving weaver! I don't care if it's dangerous. You'll do your job it you know what's good for you! Booohwwaaaaaa!

You do know how silly you sound, right? You've referenced a bunch of federal labor laws. Time to join the real world son. Time to get a job and earn your keep. Do a good job and you will be rewarded. Now run along.

Actually, Tank, if you don't follow the liberal kool-aid drinkers, you would realize that the current economic woes are equally shared by Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. It was Bill Clinton put the law in place that allowed the banks to work as investment, commercial, and insurance institutions. That led to the massive issuance of subprime loans which in turn caused the housing crisis. George W. Bush's allowance for further deregulation just added the match to the dynamite. If you couldn't tell, I am an independent with some libertarian leanings.

I am a unionized public employee. My position was reclassified five years ago. I asked at that time if my position could be made non-union and was denied that request. I was moved from a bad union, which allowed me to reclaim some of my dues on the point of disagreeing with whom political funds were provided, to an even worse union. I have been a model employee with "exceeds expectations" on all reviews. I have asked my union for mediation help on one occasion where I didn't even receive a response to my request. I have to pay into my retirement account to get any matching funds. I pay private sector amounts for my health benefits. I do get seniority benefits if layoffs occur... but those have not occurred in the seven years I have been here. I basically see no benefit to paying $55 per pay check to the union in exchange for nothing in return.

I don't agree with the largest and worst union in the world, the "tenure union." Time in service should not make it impossible to fire a bad employee. I think the greatest problem in the education system is a lack of aid from parents, but we shouldn't have to continue to throw bad money after bad money. I did a search for statistics of the local average teacher salary: $65k. That's more than most of the people make in my district, an urban area that is considered in the top ten for unemployment and violent crime. My child's teacher (this year) is good, but my wife and I put in a lot of time so that our first grader is reading at a third grader's level.

I live in Ohio and, our governor is working on a similar proposal. I wish him luck because the unions have actually hurt Ohio's chances of bringing in new business.

If this is not dereliction of duty and impeachable, I don't know what is.

Take your abll and run home if you don't get your way, Dems and libs.

tapecah:

You won't receive SS bennies because you didn't pay into the SS system. In the private sector, I must pay 7.5% of my pay into the SS system AND my employer has to match it! That is the law of the land. Public employees and legislators are exempt from that so they can fund their own pension and then, at least here in Ca., that pension fund invests in the stock market. If the fund loses money, we taxpayers are required by state law to replace it!

No such laws exist for private sector employees. I have worked for two Fortune 500 companies, and only the one I work for now provides a match of 3 percentage points on the 401k. I lost half of my IRA during the last crash. Are the taxpayers going to replace that? Yeah, right.

Once again, exercising corporate censorship, all of the comments that MSNBC/Comcast chose to hightlight under Comments on their coverage of this story were supportive of the Governor, and anti-union. Sad, but predictable. I wonder how long it will be before they start censoring here on the Vine.

New York created the most jobs..........LOL Not even in the top three!

Texas, the second-largest state, has created more jobs than any other state in Perry's time as governor. Arizona created the second-most jobs, 132,700, followed by Utah with 113,200.

Twenty states and the District of Columbia have enjoyed a net job gain during Perry's tenure, while California, the most populous state, has lost the most jobs: 827,800. Michigan lost the second most, 755,900, followed by Ohio, at 557,300.

It was Bill Clinton put the law in place that allowed the banks to work as investment, commercial, and insurance institutions.

actually, it was the republican led congress that Clinton had to work with and enough blue-dog democrats to override any veto.

remember, it was that repeal of the glass-stiegal act created to prevent great depressions that led to our own depression.

the banking and corporate schills are doing their job well. accept less and work more.

when did it become a "RIGHT" to be a union worker?

Workers have had a right to collective bargaining for some time now.

"The story around the world is the rush to democracy," said Democratic Sen. Bob Jauch of Poplar. "The story in Wisconsin is the end of the democratic process."

This is a scream - Democracy means "majority rule" - Democrats can't STAND it!

They continually try to force a leftist minority outlook down the publics throat then yell "fascism!" when they can't succeed! Or leave the state - so much for their "democracy".

Note to Dems: Communism is dead. Get over it.