Well, he's one murderer that we no longer have to worry about convicting. If you're looking for a less-dim view of this, maybe that's it: he had the DECENCY to off himself, before we were required to do it for him. I certainly wouldn't call that the "bright side", but it would have been worse had he somehow decided to spare himself. Just my opinion.

Why are you speaking to him ? HE'S DEAD . Can't read anymore...

Not that this need a joke or something, but I always like to look at the lighter side of life. Maybe it was the "Fourth Kind"

It's very easy to sit here and type in our opinion of what was wrong, what the guy was, what a coward, madman, idiot or whatever. I hold no judgements. No one knows what truly was going on with this man or his wife. We are all different and different things trigger us. We all have different tresholds for pain and how we deal with it. A very sad case indeed. Don't say "oh I would never do that because one never knows what one is capable of until taken to that point.

This man was not "selfish" or "ignorant" or "idiotic" or "cowardly" or "evil".

He was INSANE.

When people come to understand that, then perhaps we can begin to do something about it. Until we do so, we will have no defense against the insane.

IT DOESN'T MATTER what was going on! Not in the least. You think murder just might be an appropriate response, to ANYTHING? Please wise up, for your own sake, and ours. No more excuses. This guy was crazy and I'm not being judgmental in saying it. Without hearing even one more detail, it's a dead-on FACT. Period. Think about it.

I grew up in Novi and my parents are still there...I couldnt believe it when I went to read this story and it said "Novi"....what a terrible loss. My heart goes out to their family and friends.

i agree these killers are cowards that always want to take innocents with them

WOW!

I too live close to Novi and Northville! The story gives me the creeps.

I don't even know what else to say.....

Ahhh Yes,, The innocent wife defense. Poor woman must have not been a reason for him going off.

Up against the wall? Nothing to look forward to? About to lose everything he ever had that was good? HOW WILL MY WIFE SUPPORT HERSELF AND THE KIDS IF I COMMIT SUICIDE? I'll take them with me, that way I can kill myself knowing I did what was needed.

DIARY OF A SUICIDE...... a madman and his last moments.

Paul: right...and the kids probably plotted against dad too at 4 and 6. Mysoginist idiot.

I see the problem with the guy is he had a lot of money. He probably found out he had to cut back on spending annd scale down his life style. He found out he was going to have to live like the average person in the country. Oh doesn't that stink. Then that caused problems with the wife one way or another. So he 'became a madman' and murdered his family and committed suicide.

Give more than you take, take less than you need, need less than you want - the urban Buddha speaking to Fat-Jesus and the Digital-Mohammad musings in the park

If I'm understanding your comment correctly, you're suggesting that his wife "set him off"? Say that's true .... was her offense so great that the only solution was murder? Then it would also beg the question, "What did the children do that deserved a death sentence?"

May the innocent ones rest in peace.

As opposed to Black men or Mexican men. I guess decapitations and mass murders related to the border are only a Mexican phenomenon; and raping and killing white female Jewish people while on crack, and then getting caught because they were too lazy or stupid to run away is only a Black phenomenon. How about only blowing up buildings, or being a sniper in DC can that only be done by non-whites or Muslims?

What a maroon- Bugs Bunny

Jon. What a racist thing to say. Could counter with this... Read any city's newspapers and you see black kids killing other black kids practically every day of the week. What's with that? (Now, I'll probably be called racist for my reaction to Jon's comment/question.) Politics has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with either sceniaro.

The sherriff is a buffoon and a liar to say he doesn't know why this happened: I'll tell you- most men know why. The laws of today make you a slave d criminalize you in any custody dispute. No fault divorce is a sham and ridiculous. This country needs a men's "Roe v." It also needs at fault divorce: that way, if he screwed up, sure, he pays. If as so many women do these days, she was cheating or at fault, she should lose custody and pay. Until these issues are addresses, actions like these will continue...guys like this are trapped and feel no other way out.

Gee, I wonder which radio talk-show host or which news organization or which state governor was responsible for this dasdardly deed; certainly the "madman" shooter is not responsible for his own behavior!

Perhaps some left-wing pundit or "think-tank" (such as Chris Mathews, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, the Daily Kos, or The New York Times) can place the blame where it really belongs. After all, they don't need any evidence to connect someone they hate to a heinous crime. They've done it before, so they've had practice.

If as so many women do these days, she was cheating or at fault, she should lose custody and pay

Why don't men just bash their women over the head with a club and drag them back into the cave by their hair?

A gilded cage is still a cage; and a professed love from within the cage, merely conditioning through captivity. Unlock the cage and free a prisoner, when the prisoner returns of her own free will, then you will truly have a wife - the urban Buddha to Fat-Jesus and the Digital-Mohammad in musings in the park

Aggie-345886

Jon. What a racist thing to say.

Understand that most things Jon says here are racist. It's all part of the game.

skepticalcynic: in a way, he did. But the fact remains: if a man isn't at fault, why should he pay? A divorce used to be a real Contract. It is still called that. Break a contract w/out reason or with fault, and you should pay. Somehow, women have escaped that, and men are effectively enslaved.

I just need someone to show me how this is any different, other than the specifics from what happened in Tucson last week. It's not. Once again innocent lives have been cut short. It all boils down to a mental state where the mind has become overloaded and can no longer cope in a normal way.

Wow. It didn't take long for some people to pull out the "black" "white" crap and even less time for some fool to blame the woman. For her own death. And the death of two children. At the hands of an idiot man. Some will blame everything on race and others just have an innate hatred, fear and disdain for women. A tragedy occurs and out comes a personal agenda.

Financial problems certainly add pressure to a marriage, but there is no justification for murdering your wife and kids. They're white, by the way, even if they did choose stupid names for their kids. (IMHO) If you google the wife's name, you will get a photo of the parents and an article with more info. (Bring on the anti-gun nuts.)

This is about the most selfish, ignorant thing I've read in a long time. Hey buddy, if you wanted to off yourself, fine, but your innocent wife and children????

I totally agree. If this man no longer wanted to live, than why not just kill himself? Why the wife and children? Selfish, just plain selfish and unfortunate.

I blame the process of globalization of our economy, where we have been expected to give-up so many of our middle-income jobs so that various foreign nationals can have better jobs than they once did. Novi is a nice suburb of Detroit, which is one of the regions hardest hit by this transition. The region has seen an average decline in home prices of 2/3rds to 3/4ths, and the unemployment rate is still well above national average and has been for more than 8 years now. This guy probably survived until now only to become another casualty of trickle-on economics, where far too many American families have been expected to live on a lot less so that a very few among us can live really well instead. The chance that this guy could sell his house for half of what he paid for it is Zero, as some news sources around Detroit have reported that the chance of selling a house there to be 1 in 200 or less.

Unless you have survived for an extended period in this kind of economic environment, there is no possible way to really understand it. He should have spared his wife and children certainly, though the rationale some see is that he was keeping them from having to live under a bridge in the dead of Winter. This is not the first such tragedy in suburban Detroit since the economy there started falling to pieces 9 years ago, most likely it will not be the last either. Today there are 40,000 abandoned houses just inside the city limits of Detroit, and countless tens of thousands more in the suburbs, every one of them a tragic story a lot like this. Until this nation gets serious about retaining and creating an economy that can float all of our boats, I am sure that we will see plenty of continued suffering among those hardest hit too.

But the fact remains: if a man isn't at fault, why should he pay? A divorce used to be a real Contract. It is still called that. Break a contract w/out reason or with fault, and you should pay. Somehow, women have escaped that, and men are effectively enslaved.

• First of all, in the case of children, the interest of the Children are paramount in Family Law. A Judge is Mandated to consider the rights of the Children, and in Most cases, appoints a third attorney to represent the interests of the children during the divorce proceeding, separate from the other two parties.
• Marriages are NOT contracts, the civil part of a Union, the part that you have to go and get a license for, allows either party to petition for dissolution of the license; subject to the laws of the State regarding property, wealth, income and child custody.
• In respect to Property, Wealth, Income, and Child Custody, the interests of the Children are to be considered penultimate in precedence over either petitioning party.
• The only "contractual" part of a marriage is in terms of religious for those parties that receive a secular license and a religious ceremony. In those cases, the religious status of the marriage has NO BEARING on CIVIL LAW. A Judge MAY NOT consider any religious principle in judicial review of the petition for dissolution of a marriage.
• Either party retains those rights and protections described within the Bill of Rights, neither can marriage infringe on those rights, nor can either party impose dominion over the other with regard to those rights, even in a Marriage agreement.

A faster way of saying all that ,would be , George Soros ,hes still carrying on Daddy' s Looooooong traditions

PROGRESSIVE.....The party of commies sneaking up on you !(even if it's been going on for a 100 years)

We are too self-centered and self absorbed; all we think about is what is best for us, not how our actions affect others. I think it is a sign of what's wrong with our society. We need to strive to be good people, not self-satisfied.

Too many times we read about people killing their spouses, so they can retain the marital possessions. We also see way too many divorced parents killing their kids, to punish their former spouses or to keep the kids from moving forward without them.

This man didn't want to face his future. He didn't want his family to live their lives without him. If that is not self-centered and self-absorbed, what is it?

I'm not sure if you read the entire article, but it does state that the couple was considering divorce and were having financial difficulties. Many people are having financial hardships in these economic times, but not everyone murder their entire family because they are. So blaming the process of globalization...without any real proof indicating the reason(s) this man did this is an inaccurate finding. For all we know it could have been the divorce the couple were considering and the thought of having to pay child support for two children for some time considering their young ages. And if this is the case he could have very well killed self only and free self from all responsibilities to his family.

Wow. It didn't take long for some people to pull out the "black" "white" crap and even less time for some fool to blame the woman. For her own death. And the death of two children. At the hands of an idiot man. Some will blame everything on race and others just have an innate hatred, fear and disdain for women

Just like we have to face the problem of muslim extremism, we have to start facing and acknowledging the male problem.

Societal pressures, and a myriad of other influences, can set off the mentally unstable with horrible consequences. Unfortunately, we have very little to recognize WHO will snap. Tragic? Yes. Surprising? NO. As pressures increase, as much as I hate to say it, we'll see more instances of this. It's all part of the human experience, and we all pay one way or the other. My condolences to the family.

People like this are nasty! Just a couple of months ago, a man killed his ex-wife (she worked where i do) infront of the kids over jealousy. He then killed himself. Disgusting!

He obviously wasnt making decisions kattlekween. Someone who does something as horrible as this has a mental illness of some kind.

How is it different than Tuscan? You don't see any difference between shooting your wife, your own two kids, and then yourself, and a guy who shoots primarily at a politician, and who then lives to smile for the mugshot?

I think I feel sorry for you.

Speak for yourself. People "get better" all the time. I helped them do it as a caring therapist. If he wasn't insane, which is a legal, not medical term, the act murder is an act of supreme irrationality. It is a shame. We will never know if that family could have been saved....My condolences to all who knew them.

He must have listened to way too much right wing radio and FOX News. Oh, I know, he saw Sara' map. At least this sheriff has more sense than the idiot in Tucson.

You will never understand the "reasoning" because the "reasoning" makes no sense. That's why we call people like the man in the news article a "madman" because his "reasoning" has no logic and is not "reason" at all.

The signs of his mental illness were most likely evident but no one recognized them for what they were. Like Jared Loughner, the signs are present but most of us do not recognize the signs of madness and as a society have no effective mechanism to help the person or stop them before they snap and harm themselves or others.

I think he shot her because she was so much more successful with her high IQ (an engineer) and all, and he felt she no longer respected him. Still selfish. I don't know why he would kill the kids.. Maybe he realized they would hate him.

Way to go Alan b007, I was only maybe 10 to 15 comments into this and someone had to bring up a moronic political statement. Go back to bed, Moron.

Hey Kanderson, I think that when men marry the woman of their dreams and work extremely hard to provide for their family and give all that they have to make life better for their family, they feel betrayed when the spouse wants a divorce. It's as if the spouse is saying I only love you as long as we can live in luxury community and that our kids are in the best school and drive the nicest car around. but if you were to ever be come anything less than superman and fail to keep me at this fairy tale status in life then I will leave and take the most beautiful gifts that weve made together.

I think the man feels that she won't love me unless we have a 250,000 home in an excellent community with every need met. If I have to tell her that we might have to down size, maybe rent not own, maybe trade the newer cars for dependable used ones and maybe relocate to an area that may not be impressive but is yet affordable then she will leave.

I've done it all for her and the kids, and unless I keep up this perfection, they will abandon me. First he lost the job, and might have felt that he lost her love and respect, and then his fears turned on him, he figured that next she will leave me because I can't provide the level of living that she expects from me, she will take the kids and I will fall from Father/Husband and Provider to Outsider/Begger( when you have to beg to see the kids) and reject.

He decided that He would rather die with his entire family and reunite in another existence without such pressures. than to leave them unprotected and provided for. The problem is He thought that the money and his education and salary was the cement that held his life and family together and I wish he had turned to God for help and told his wife that we may have to downsize, but I will do anything to keep us together, no matter what I financial staus is.........

Or maybe Sammijo, the whole thing was his fault, he screwed around on his wife, she caught him, knew what kind of piece of s__t he was, realized this and had to prove it to everybody.

Sammijo..........

What a ridiculous post.

Wife was an engineer with GM...she doesn't need anyone supporting her and her kids financially.......she makes great bank.

Your last statement was what made me laugh the most. You surmised from that small article that he decided he wanted to take his family with him into the afterlife for fear that they wouldn't survive without him. Are you for real? Then you bring god into the mix. If your god is all knowing and in charge...well then wasn't he responsible for this masacre?

Point is that nobody knows his reasons for killing his family and himself. Everyone can speculate but nobody was inside his head.

People like you don't grasp that humans act and react to their situations based on human reasoning. Bring your "god" into this isn't any help because a non-believer will see the obvious conflict here.....if god knew his plans why didn't he stop it? He seems to answer other "miracles"...why not this one.

Leave this family to grieve in peace.

We have a major problem in our country.

I knew when I clicked onto this article there would be a comment like this one from the police chief:

" it's simply an act of a madman."

It is not so simple. Are we afraid to define "good" and "evil?"

This was an act by an Evil Madman.

When I was a kid growing up there was the "village Idiot aka town loon." I never knew his name. He was always just called "socks." Socks was crazy as h___. The difference was that he was a happy man, and would never harm a soul. The worst that one would get from old Socks was "can you spare a penny or a nickel?" And this he always asked with the biggest smile.

In my long life I have know several crazy people. I know they were crazy because they spent time in loonie bins or rather plush private hospitals. These hospitals were staffed by psychiatrists.

The people I knew, when out of the hospitals took time to do good deeds. They worked to help others. They were kind and compassionate. Crazy as a loon? Perhaps, but they never harmed themselves or others.

They were "good" loons, which is far different from being an evil loon.

Those Columbine boys and that person in Arizona were and are crazy, they are "Madmen" but they are also very evil.

and that is all I have to say about that.......

Madman is not a fair assessment. My father committed suicide. It hurt us all, but we weren't to crazy about him. I have often thought of it myself. I am not a madman, but desperate. I am without a job, unable to work, no way to bring in any money, health problems, a drug problem provided free of charge by the doctors who did the botched surgeries, no way to get that resolved. I am sick every day. I have attempted withdrawal several times, and have yet to succeed. I don't have a golden voice, so I won't be given a bunch of perks. As I see it, I have little worth sticking around for. That being said, I love my wife. I have played through the trauma it would bring her if I did this, so I am speculating this man did the same. Rather than leave his wife with the pain of having to deal with his death, the bills, the millions of other things, he killed her. He took his children as well, because there would be no one to care for them, and they would have to live with the death of their parents for the rest of their lives. They are very young and that memory stays with you. No, not a madman-a desperate man. Only if you've walked in his shoes do you know the facts. Until then, it's all speculation.

My fellow Americans, you are collectively a useless bunch of trash regardless of political affiliation.

So pack your bags, move your a** to another country, and don't come back.

sammijo- not only is this not gods fault but this man is not at peace. For the deed he has done...there is no peaceful afterlife for this man.

You have to be very, very far gone. You have to be stark raving mad.

It's less about being 'mad' than it is about utter selfishness. This guy was thinking of no one but himself when he decided to deprive his wife & children of a future. Whatever his 'reason', it was entirely self-motivated. He'll have to deal with the consequences on another level. God Bless their families; their grief must be wrenching.

when some men imagine their wife that they have provided for invested in and have brought chidren is lying in the arms of another man, or that a new step father might molest their children or a new husband might abuse or mistreat his wife he wigs out. He unable to see that he can make it work, He only sees the part of the story that shows that he failed to provide and take care of them. When a man is employed and in control everyone says that this is his beautiful wife and family, if he fails to provide for the family in a way that he feels;dissapoints her, her family , his family or his conscience. then he imagines the worst scenario.... ...She will leaveme....she will take our children...some other man will take my family, my dreams and my hopes and I will stand out in the cold watching the whole thing unfold, because I could'nt provide for them.......He's too embarrased to turn to friends for help because he has to admit that he's struggling and that's not manly, he won't turn to the inlaws because he thinks that it makes him look weak.... so he mentally crashes into his fears and ends the sorrow early rather than watch his life fall apart slowly.... He imagines that first she wants to leave, then she takes the kids and moves and then I become a begger asking her to stay while looking at heartbreak and devastation in his childrens eyes, then comes his own apartment, alone from his family, then the bills, the forecloseure, the humiliation at work, the gossip from their friends, then the expensive divorce, and the angry conversations. the lonely night....and he's not turning to God....so his listens to his greatest fears and they began to shout at him he imagines the whole thing in slow motions...and then he says I don't think that I will able to slowly watch all that I have built crumble.... and well that where we come in. it's on the News, It's in the Paper, It's on the Blog and everyone is calling him, @!$%#, jerk, and maniac and maybe he was a man that was afraid and did'nt have a friend in his life that he could confide in, He did'nt have a church home, and he felt overwhelmingly sad and alone. Maybe he's just a selfish jerk as somany have said, but I know a lot of men that have had to fight the fear of loosing their family and Job and It can tear a man apart. So If you have a friend that pretending to do allright, check in on him, lend an ear, and pray for him..EVEN MIGHTY MEN GET AFRAID, FALL APART AND GIVE UP.

Wow sammijo, sounds like you've known some guys who have been through situations like this -- you're right most of us don't take time to 'see' and listen to others; maybe in this 'time of new awareness' we can begin to do that. I will never understand, tho, why anyone would kill innocent children--that is the really selfish part. Comfort and prayers to their family.

Such an EGO, his loneliness, his ego, his job, his possession in the arms of another man, the talk about his situation at work, the devastation in HIS kids eyes, his, his, his, his. And so if he cant have them in the manner he chooses, Nobody can; and he insured that didn't he.

To have the privilege of the love and companionship of a wife and children, free them, unlock any gates, give them all of your wealth, go out into the street with nothing, not even clothing on your back, and expect nothing from your family in return. If you have truly loved your wife and children for their sakes in an unconditional manner, and not your own sake, they will come and rescue you from your exile - the urban Buddha to Fat-Jesus and the Digital-Mohammad from musings in the park

Samijo: you are exactly right- don't let these others tell you different. Many of us have felt or experienced the same things, you are spot on. In today's society, only the wealthy survive divorce and child support. The rest are left as slaves, attacked on every governmental front as if they were criminals, and forced to pay for twenty years. Bank Robbers get treated better.

Sammijo- Please explain to me how you came to the conclusion that this poor man was so picked on by his awful wife, and she was the one leaving? And if she was, looks like she was making the right choice as he was clearly disturbed.

There is NO excuse for what he did, there is nothing ever that could make it ok or understandable.

And this whole "woe is the man whose wife ruins him" crap you have going on makes my stomach turn just a little. It isn't just wives who up and leave. Sometimes, and this may shock you, men just wake up one day, tell their wives "hey I don't think I want to be married anymore" and then take off. And then guess what happens? That woman picks herself up, dusts herself off and takes care of her children. There are plenty of us out there that have been dealt a crappy hand in life, but we don't succumb to our own personal pity party, and then decide to take out the people that love us and ourselves. We just deal with it and do the best we can.

Sweetpea that is such crap. If a man takes off, every instrument of the state is turned upon him and he is reduced to penury. He is attacked nonstop civilly and criminally- because women are attuned to a system that benefits them. Men rarely use this remedy because they are not schooled in taking advantage of others. Women from birth are taught to go after the money- thus, if you walk down any posh street in NYC and Chicago, you see supermodels w/dwarves.

Boy, there are a lot of very bitter men here today. A man kills his entire family and you come up with EXCUSES FOR HIM! People get divorced all the time and manage to get it together. Plus more often then not its the women who ends up with not only the children but with a very, very altered lifestyle and far less income. Not the other way around.

Not all women are like that. The majority may be, but not all.

In my case he literally told me out of no where he was done, and moved out with no intention of supporting our kids beyond when he has them in his home (which is not often). You don't get to make babies with someone and then just get off scot-free when you are tired of the responsibility.

I have no intention of taking all of his money, but I do expect him to help cover the costs of raising our children since he decided to skip out. I work full time, go to school and am looking for a second job so I can be as financially independent from him as possible. However, he does need to help.

I have some news for you... lots of men leave and have not a care to support their children...Look around you...who is left to raise those kids with not a speck of support from the ex husband? How many deadbeat dads are roaming around without a thought to their children? More than I would want to count. I see some of my friends in penury since their exs just hooked up with another woman and don't even remember their own flesh and blood. Please..don't start about women having all the rights. if they did, they wouldn't have to go to the courts to demand financial support for the kids.

Maureen but it does not take what the courts allow in a lot of cases to raise the kids. Just because he poked he should not have to pay the pig for that piece of as— for the next 18 years. Pay for the support of the kid or kids definately but not to support the pig he poked and it needs to be a realistic amount. $500 or more a month is not realistic for one kid. $1000 for three is not realistic. What is he supposed to liver on? Oh now I remember that is his problem isn't it?

Rock, what criminal charges can be filed against a man for leaving his wife and kids? You're full of boo-hookey. When my daughter was young and her father refused to pay child support we had to go to court. I sat there and listened to woman after woman say she worked two jobs, or more. Then all the men said they couldn't find a job. The judge finally went off and said that if all these women can find two jobs, surely the men could find at least one. However, for each deadbeat dad I know of, I know two who pay their child support and are involved in the lives of their children.

Its true. I am going to be working two jobs pretty quick here because guess who is about to go to jail and lose his job? My Ex. All I ask for him is a whopping $400 a month for two children and that he pay half the daycare costs. That is it, and he still calls me a money grubbing b!tc$. Know what the courts would have ordered? Twice that amount! And what do I get for trying to be reasonable and independent? I get berated constantly for only wanting his money and not caring about him, I get middle of the night phone calls from the jail because he got pulled over on a suspended license YET AGAIN and he wants me to bail him out. And now, I get to figure out childcare and how to pay my bills for the next 2 months at least because he is on his way to jail, and will most likely lose his job.

I agree that men have a tendency to get screwed by the system, but most of us single mom's don't live on cloud nine either.

Maybe I am wrong: Many men simply resent giving a wife or family ANY money. (Note not sharing with but giving) Many many simply stash $ secretly and deny the family necessities. Many prefer to spend more on a prostitute than for a wife who works really hard. Maybe one should not just marry for love but get long, good counselling before marriage? Maybe most people are not unselfish enough to be married, leave alone have kids? Depressing.

Some men resent not having any say as to weather or not THEIR kids can come into the world , But ,are expected to foot the bill ,IF hillary "DECIDES" to let them live !

PROGRESSIVE ...The party of shifting responsibility ,for your vote

Some men resent not having any say as to weather or not THEIR kids can come into the world , But ,are expected to foot the bill ,IF hillary "DECIDES" to let them live !

PROGRESSIVE ...The party of shifting responsibility ,for your vote

Proof positive of why Incest should be against the law!

Note: I am a Man, and NO, MOST Men do NOT begrudge taking care of their families. Most men, even during a divorce, care about their kids, and Most men willing pay what the law says they must in order to support their kids. BUT.....Men are only liable for half of the support, and the Mother is liable for the other half. The Mother shouldn't get a life style increase due to the contributions of the Father; and the kids are not Pawns to be used as leverage to punish the Man, even if the Man is an adulterer, or screwing your best friend, or caught with his secretary; those issues should remain between the wife and the husband, NOT suitable subject matter for the kids.

This idea that all Women are property and all Men are selfish pigs is stereotypical, Misogynistic, and frankly, offensive. Some Men are worthless and so are some women, probably in equal numbers; I just saw where an infant died while the mother was playing on Face-book. A similar stereotype is a statement "its that time of the month" therefore women are illogical emotional idiots. I love women, all women, and find that a little kindness and respect goes a long way, and having survived divorce with kids, I can honestly say that the concern was over the kids, and at times when I was broke; my ex was merciful, and at times when she was suffering, I chipped in more than I was required to; for the kids, and also for her. We are not at war with women, and acting like we are is sheer stupidity.

"My ex was merciful"

Pretty well sums it up in a nutshell ,don't you think ?

PROGRESSIVE ....The party of "A woman needs a man ,like a fish needs a bicycle !"

Empty barrels echo loudest - Chuck Noll commenting about the ignorance of some posts, I wonder who he was talking about, huh....RL, do you know?

And here i thought my posts were short !

Just repeating what I've heard from my PROGRESSIVE comrades !

PROGRESSIVE ....The party of posting, bitching about posting

I find the conversation and the company better with Liberal Women, I also find the sex better with Liberal empowered women that have a modicum of control over the circumstances pertaining to intimacy. I don't fear strong women, neither am I less Male, nor am I subservient in anyway. Equality doesn't mean the Same, since women and men are different, there can be NO sameness equalling equity, but the pizzazz is in the difference anyway!

Personally, I can't stand to be around liberal women, long enough for anything except, saying goodbye.

Linny- anyone can be sent to jail for non-payment of child support, whether they are able to pay or not. They also can and do take drivers licences (which doesnt help in getting a job) and destroy your credit- which in this day and age, further limits or altogether destroys your ability to get a job.

Obviously, you have to be pretty desperate and scared. It's sad that so many Americans have been pushed so hard in the last few years that we are now seeing reactions like this to the economic downturn and loss of our incomes, our businesses, and our family homes.

Forget about the article and the travesty that occurred in Novi, MI! One only needs to read through these posts to find the answers as to the "why" of the matter, using the "assumption" theory like the nuts posting here!

It takes a an enormous leap from sane thinking to insane thinking just to harm ones own flesh. Imagine what it takes to make the leap to not only harming oneself, but also those they purportedly love! As to taking the lives of his two children, this guy crossed over to a place of irretrievable insanity.

Suicide is often considered an act of selfishness. It might seem that way to the "sane", such as they are. However, it is an unnatural act, an act that results from a tortured mind that eventually sees no way out, thinks that suicide would be sweet relief and certainly less painful than living, that often thinks he/she is nothing more than a burden on family, friends and others, and that everyone would be better off without them. These people see the world as a hopeless and untenable place, and it clouds their judgement in every way, shape and form. Simply put: There's only one GOOD way out.

As is typically the case with people who kill themselves and their "loved ones", the fear of losing them or leaving them behind is often too much to bear. One old woman hung herself & her cat, because she couldn't go without the cat and didn't believe anyone would care for it like she would.

But, then again, there are those who are obsessed with the objects of their desire to the point of rather seeing them dead than living a life apart or seeing them thriving when the compromised one is faltering. There are those who are insanely jealous to begin with. They are the control freaks and to them, the ultimate control is deciding the outcomes for everyone rather than risking someone deciding his/her outcome. Losing control is losing everything.

Whatever pushed this man over the edge may never be known. Generally, over time, little factoids come out that help shape a meaningful understanding of a suicidal person's character, demons, "isms" and personality. I'm sure that if this headline spends any significant time on the front page, a profile will begin to emerge beyond the speculation of the few Newsvine posters today.

To those who are ranting and raving about their nasty divorces, how poorly men and/or women are treated in divorce, who has the shorter end of the stick, and ESPECIALLY, those who are living on the edge and considering suicide. . .GET HELP NOW! Anger, hatred, vengeful obsessions, stress and all around stinkin' thinkin' WILL ruin your health and lives, provided you don't go all commando on yourselves & others first!

Seriously! Do you people every THINK before you write this kind of stuff on the World Wide Web? If not, get a clue and get some help. . .do it for yourselves and those of us who actually enjoy living regardless of our socio-economic and/or marital status.

I cannot understand or comprehend why someone (sammijo) would try to even justify something like this. Maybe that was going through his head sammijo...but there is no justification nor peace for such an evil deed. My life is in the crapper right now and im not going out and killing my family. There is always a better way to deal with things. Bottom line!

Proof positive that Dumb Ass is a race, gender, and politically neutral disease.

Though many think so, suicide is not about selfishness. What's the difference with someone who is terminally ill and they have decided to end their life. What's selfish in cases like that, is that family members would rather the person not die, stay in a hospital, have someone wipe their butt, and have a machine breath for them. THAT is selfish. Suicide is often about hopelessness. It's about wanting the pain to go away. It's about not seeing a light at the end of a tunnel. It's about a life so filled with bad experiences that when a good one comes around, it's the exception. So how was he selfish? He took his wife and kids, the ones who would have suffered, with him. Too many judgemental people.

Good comment Mark. Very sensible. Of course, the action is mad, but it does not mean it is an act of a madman. It could be a heavy burden on his shoulder and there's no one to talk to. When we are troubled with so many problems and they get overwhelming, unless we seek help, we become irrational. I am terribly sorry for this family. If only they sought help. May God forgive them and have mercy on their souls.

Nope. He was a madman, alright. If ordinary people could face the same sort of difficulties WITHOUT KILLING THEMSELVES AND THEIR OWN FAMILIES, then what this guy did is nothing BUT evidence that he was "insane", i.e., a madman. If this guy doesn't qualify as "mad" in your book, I'd sure hate to find out what does.

You blow a lot of smoke, but there is no fire. It's perfectly rational to call the guy a madman. There is really no better description at this point, and in the sense used here, it is a broad characterization that could include any number of more definitive psychiatric conditions, such as depression, paranoia, etc. That cop may not be a psychiatrist, but in layman's terms "madman" fits, indeed.

How on earth can you possibly conclude that a non-mad man could carry out a mad task, Lady? If that isn't the very DEFINITION of "mad", what is?

Yikes. If I'm ever on trial, I want YOU on my jury...I guess...well, maybe not. If I'm ever on trial, I'll actually be innocent, so I guess I would prefer logical, reasonable people to be on the jury. That settles it: you're excused from duty.

Why not get off your band-wagon. Learn how to structure a paragraph. You're just another rambling idiot!

Happen to agree with you Mark. Wish he had turn to God instead; sad.

I prefer "cowardly madman" myself...Lets see how many people have been out of work, or lost a business due to the bad economy or have gotten divorced or even all of these? Sorry this guy was a coward.....

Hey Mark, you are an idiot! Don't give me this tree hugging wimpy argument that there is an excuse for everything because of the stresses of society and the problems in the world. BOO HOO, you moron. This guy was a madman, he killed his own children, is that clear, you moron! You bleeding heart A%$$ Hole

To have the privilege of the love and companionship of a wife and children, free them, unlock any gates, give them all of your wealth, go out into the street with nothing, not even clothing on your back, and expect nothing from your family in return. If you have truly loved your wife and children for their sakes in an unconditional manner, and not your own sake, they will come and rescue you from your exile - the urban Buddha to Fat-Jesus and the Digital-Mohammad from musings in the park

It makes me so sad to read these kinds of stories. It also makes me wonder what could drive a person to do such a thing? I really don't understand how anything in life could be so awful you feel the need to take out your entire family. Unfortunately, there is no rationalizing what this (cowardly) man did. How life can ever be so bleak that the smiling faces of your children isn't enough to bring the smile back to your own face is beyond me.

All I know is, I am going through a divorce, now a single mom to 2 toddlers, one with serious special needs and the other with severe asthma, work full time, have an unreliable ex, and going through school all while dealing with my own serious health issues, and I have not had a single urge to bring harm upon my babies. In fact, those sweet little faces are what keep me going everyday. No matter how hard it gets, and boy it gets tough somedays, all I have to do is see my girls and remember why I do it all.

May they rest in peace and may comfort be brought to the loved ones now suffering from this horrific act.

Using the term "madman" is a way to dismiss this act from the officers mind. He himself cannot cope with the horror of such an insidious act.

I find it interesting and right in-line with a book I am finishing that none of you think a violent act is justifiable in any situation. Apparently our society has turned us all into automatons, where you feel nothing and just go with the flow. I'll tell you what: if someone selfishly destroys your entire life and turns you into a slave. what do you do? Just lie down and accept your fate? Or do you strike out first? The only sad thing is that the dude didn't take out the lawyers and judge instead of his children- they perpetuate this system for their own gain..

Sweetpea--I do not believe that divorced women should be entitled to use the tag, "single mom". You are NOT a single mom. A single mom is one whose husband is deceased. You are a DIVORCED mom, the father of your children is still alive and available to assist with the upbringing and financial support of your children. Every state has statutes that allow divorced mothers to seek financial compensation for the children of the marriage. Even women who choose to become mothers without the institution of marriage can seek court-ordered financial contributions by the fathers under parental rights and responsibility statutes. I see the use of the term "single mom" as implying that these women are somehow facing the world alone.

And even true "single moms" (by my definition) get SUBSTANTIAL financial assistance by the government to the children in the form of social security payments until the kids reach age 18.

So let's stop with the boohooing about single moms or divorcing couples and focus on the fact that in our society, we have institutionalized blaming others and holding some nebulous issue (ADD, ADHD, bi-polar, drug addiction, mental instability) responsible for individual actions.

Possible solutions? A complete forfeiture of any and all remaining assets to the state when an act such as this occurs (this would force living family members who are aware of outrageous behavior, such as Loughner's parents, to seek appropriate intervention or law enforcement action for members of their family). Just a thought.

Power comes from the ability to be unaffected by the politics of others; but real power comes from having the capacity to love others in spite of their politics - the urban Buddha to Fat-Jesus and the Digital Mohammad in "musings in the park"

suzyque lets focus on the fact that the system is inequitable and forces men into a box. We need a Men's Roe v. where if a woman gets impregnated, the man can opt out of fatherhood in lieu of 21 years of economic slavery. We need at-fault divorce laws. And Alimony? A complete joke. Many women abuse the current system under the victim guise. I am a single father who got in a relationship with a woman. I made it clear that I am financially, geographically and emotionally incapable of having another child. Somehow, and it doesn't matter how, she did conceive. She almost immediately told me that I would be "paying"....At 44, I currently look forward to at least $100,000 in payments over the next twenty years...and I am not wealthy. This is all before one dime would be spent on visits, presents, gas, hotels, school, restaurants, medical, all the things it takes as a non-custodial parent. I am effectively enslaved, and my two custodial sons are hurt, because this women decided she wanted a baby. She had the right to "choose" after conception, men do not. She just as easily could have decided to abort. btw: "single mom: refers to having custody w/out a significant other- the woman you corrected was right in her word usage.

suzy- did you hear any boohooing on my part? I am single, I am a mom, I am a single mom. I was merely saying, I understand the stresses of going through a divorce and trying to take care of children and worrying about financial difficulties, what I do NOT understand is commiting such a vile act.

I am not trying to garner sypmathy from the masses by referring to myself as a single mom, that is just what I am. Like I said, single and a mom to me equals a single mom. I am not facing the world alone, I have two beautiful children by my side and a wonderful support system. I am not sitting at home with a bottle of jack throwing myself a pity party, I am living my life and working hard to provide for my kids.

My whole point was, there is absolutely no rationalization for what this man did. Other people survive divorce, other people have survived the economic downfalls, all without going on a killing rampage of their families. He should have reached out, he should have gotten help and it is too bad no one saw any warning signs, but hey maybe there were none. This is a horrible tragedy, and I cannot wrap my head around the thought that his life was SO terrible he had to kill himself and his family.

Rock- I would actually have to agree with you about the system. Which is why I have been trying very hard to work with my children's father on a fair amount of child support, while allowing him to see our kids as much as he would like. I am a firm believer that depriving the father of seeing his kids hurts no one worse than the kids themselves. He instead of working with me, is choosing to spiral way out of control and fighting against me. Why, I do not know. I know too many father's out there though who are being deprived of their children all the while being forced to pay exorbitant amounts of money to their ex. It is ridiculous and saddening. My ex chose to leave us, he should be responsible for some support, but I can take care of myself and do not expect him to pay above and beyond necessities.

Suzyque sorry but there are plenty of single moms out there, due to divorce and the father chooses not to be a part of his childs life, the state chasing men to pay child support, men who choose to spend time with a girlfriend or new wife...parenting is only partly about the money, it is about teaching your children, spending time with them, takingthem to the doctor, dentist, getting their homework done and a million other things that add up to being a good mom or dad, whether or not you live in the same house as the children...and believe me, I know that there are plenty of dads out there who do a fabulous job at being a single dad, or dads who want to be but are not given the chance by a spiteful woman or a broken court system...

Sweet pea keep doing what you are doing, my ex-husband was kept away from his dauthter by his ex-wife, but he never said a bad word in front of his daughter and guess what, she is 26 with 2 girls and sees what happened with her parents...now that I am divorced from him, I have never kept his kids from him, I had to push him to spend more time with them and now he realizes he was not the best dad he could have been ( for a short time), and now our kids are his first priority...if your ex comes to his senses, it will be great for your kids, if not it is his loss, and your children will grow up to realize the truth of who was there for them and who was not...but continue put your children first and you will know that you did the best for them that you could.

always get a lawyer, i lost time after time til I paid $7000 dollars. It took 45 minutes in court and custody changed instantly. I had to borrow...but it turned my life (and my kids)around instantly. THAT is the system- basically make sure the legal dogs get theirs...

Is moving to smaller housing even an option? Is his home worth what he paid for it or has in it? Can he recover any of his equity in that home?

None of us have ever seen a situation similar to what we have seen in the past few years. Property has never lost equity similar to what we see today, in our lifetime. Do some thinking before making such remarks. And while youare at it thank God you can cope with your own situation, whatever that is.

like I said before if you feel like killing yourself or killing others you need to call 911.

Better open a few more phone-lines , with 2million ,whose unemployment benefits have expired, and thousands joining Daily

Hundreds of thousands of homes being lost (Thank you barney fag) and courts can't even figure out WHO owns them.

Almost forgot ! All the boomers ,lining up to Al Borgs empty "Lock box , for non-existent social security ,bankrupt Medicare , and the union thugs ,who still believe they are going to get $80.000 a year retirement pensions, now you start to see ,why we don't have time or money ,for 21 year old girls !

And the Micheal Moore , Obama "dog and pony show" not even addressing them ......They are going to need them !

PROGRESSIVE....The party of 75 years ,of the same old crap

true that. if that's what's needed at the moment, more 911 operators is what should happen

Thank You

Right...if he'd just kept his business going, he wouldn't have killed his KIDS and his wife???? Get help.

Another sign of the improving economy?

Perhaps, but it does little to explain the hundreds of similar incidents that happened during much better economic times, now does it?

he was having trouble with his business? he owned a party store in Michigan...pretty much sums it up.

Another sign of the improving economy?

Is this just a sneaky little way of blaming Obama?

you MUST be kidding. blaming the economy on what this man did? no way. those of you that think this a reasonable explanation, do get help. this was an act of a coward who couldn't deal with something and chose to take those around him out with him, plain and simple. sad, but true.

If you are to believe all of the Obama administration's rhetoric, yes, this would be another sign of the improving economy. =-( And for you ACLU card carrying, bleeding heart, left wing liberals, the man was using what we commonly refer to as SARCASM! Dry, dark humor at its finest. At least one of us got it, Truth. =0)

Your sarcasm is horrific in both timing and context.

But to answer your question - no.

After all, didn't Madoff's son just commit the most selfish act recently? While his dad's situation probably caught him in some way, he was still living quite well. BTW, if the guy was really feeling bad, wouldn't he have done this back at the end of 2007, anytime in 2008 and up thru 1st qtr of 2009 when everyone was losing their job? When the stock market tanked?

For, we saw just yesterday that the stock market has hit a 30 month high. And 1.3 million jobs (not enough yet to recover from the 3.5 million lost from June 2008 - Feb 2009) were created in 2010. Try again.

On second thought, don't try again. That's just a horrific comment/question you asked and by the sound of it, I don't think you'll be any different than Pharoah - you have a hardened heart.

@truth and nothing butthe truth, (You Wish You Knew The Truth)

The Wrestler Chris Beniot did the same exact thing a few years ago, and he was a millionaire. Did the economy effect his decision?

Chris from Yucaipa

Another sign of the improving economy?

Is this just a sneaky little way of blaming Obama?

No, the economy around Detroit has been on the rocks since the beginning of George Bush Jr's Presidency, with unemployment as high as 30% and with a drop in home prices of between 2/3rds and 3/4ths in most of Detroit's suburbs, and with as much as a 90% drop in values within the city limits of Detroit, as hundreds of thousands of decent-paying industrial jobs have slipped away to better the lives of countless foreign nationals instead. Indeed, the Detroit News reported more than 3 years ago that your chance of selling your house there was under 1 in 200, well before President Obama was even elected. This isn't the first such tragedy around the Detroit-area since this economic madness began, nor will it likely be the last one either.

Old timer and others

Why blame someone else (foreigners/outsourcing/imports)? Why buy goods made in China, especially things which pollute or u do not need at all? After the British deliberately destroyed India's ancient textile industry to profit Manchester's mills, India simply produced and used really rough home spun. Proudly! Britain refused to allow textile machines into India, so Indians HAD to buy British cloth and all goods. Indians stopped buying and did without. Come on Americans, we can do better than complain s/he did that to us. Or that we are black/ jewish/ broke/ divorced/ gay/white/ male/female or whatever. The US is full of survivors and adventurers and has deliberately taken in some of the world's best brains. Let' s go folks, onto victory.

He was a computer programmer and she was an engineer! The pending divorce could be the problem here, not everything is Obama's fault.

No, a sign that there are far too many guns. The police found weapons at their home. What did the husband need this arsenal for? Just because the NRA, with its far-reaching lobbying tentacles, makes it possible? Deplorable!!!

Unfortunately, one of the problems with education has been making the children all feel good about themselves. The reason this is a problem is that they do not learn how to handle adversity. The school psychologists all insist that they all be treated as winners. No one learns how to handle losing at schoolyard games, which in turn helps you to cope with bigger adversities. I am not advocating leaving kids to handle bullies without help, but you have to learn how to cope with the negative. This leads up to hurting (or killing) the ones you love.

Twisted logic, and just plain weird and off-topic. Murder/suicide has been around a lot longer than schools or psychologists, so has divorce and economic hardship. There is nothing new here. My sympathy to the community and the extended families of the victims.

It wasn't deleted it was collapsed.

it SHOULD have been deleted

A man who is looking to loose everything and everyone he loves feels backed into a corner. How do you protect your wife and children when you are not there? They are all together now and nothing can change that. I don't believe he was crazy but trying to make sure his family was all together with him. I have lived through the same--the difference is, we are all still alive. More understanding and a lot less hostility. It can happen to you.

annie, I can not believe that someone would rationalize this act, and you almost sound like you feel sorry for this selfish idiot. Unforunately I know people that have killed themselves and family's of the same, and you I think are the first person I that I have listened to that has tried to not make the commiter of this crime an evil person, because that is all that they are (were) a selfish, evil person.

@ annie293071 My daughter was murdered by her husband in November and then he committed suicide also.

As to your saying that this family is all together, They are not all together. The wife and children are in heaven and he is in HELL where he belongs with my former son in law. There is no excuse ever to kill your innocent family.

If you have lived through the same you need help to think that it is ok to kill children!

Annie: that's just such a sick post....and you wonder why their are terrorist suicide bombers when you've got someone right here claiming this murderer and his innocent wife and babies are "all together". What a sick, sick load of religious bull

So nobody here has ever been backed into a corner where there seemed to be no options and no way out.

Must be nice to have such total control over your life.

What this guy did was totally wrong and there are no excuses, but it doesn't mean I can't understand why someone who has tried to fulfill what he was taught was the american dream, and who has failed, and now was going to lose everything would get wound so tight that the slightest thing could cause him to snap. What do you people expect in this lovely dog eat dog cutthroat world you've created? Civility? Judgment? Compassion? He committed the acts, and is completely responsible for them, but in this supposedly christian country, aren't we responsible, collectively, for him and what he became? Or are we only responsible to our tight little group of friends and family, and everybody else can go hang.

And to the therapist who posted here, how many white collar businessmen come in to see you and talk about their problems? Seems to me they are about as allergic to that sort of thing as someone in the military is - to ask for that kind of help is a sign of weakness and unmanliness.

Annie: you are exactly right. Apparently these others on here have never felt trapped or betrayed by the system. It is obvious this guy did. People who trike out when a) everything they love is being taken from them and b) they are being turned into child support slaves, well: lets just hope it doesn't happen to you. We need at fault divorce laws in this country-, we need a men's "Roe v".

oh yes, i too have never faced adversity. give me a break. so, what i am getting here from you is...everyone should kill their family and children when faced with hardship. no way. i do not even think suicide is an answer for adversity, but to kill self and family; even more cowardly.

If u know u do NOT want a child, you can opt for male/ female sterilization, a simple operation. Every time u sleep with someone, the risk of preg is often there. Why wait for Roe vs whoever?

There is always a proper way out. One only has to seek it. Unfortuantly many of us do not seem to be able to do that.

There are many options...and many reasons not to get sterilized, as life changes. But: you cannot change things once the child is born.

Or he was losing more than he could handle and out of frustration took it all away. See annie-2930701 and her post 10.1.

I'm not. I wished he'd survived long enough to come to his senses and realize what he had done.

Angel, In a lot of murder /suicides they kill themselves in the house without driving off. In this case he took the time to drive to Walmart. During the drive and possibly while sitting in the vehicle he did have time to think about what he had done to his family before killing himself.

why do you ramble on?

It took me a minute, but I got it. LOL.

Being alive is better than being dead. He shouldn't have done it.

Who are you to judge?

"A coward lion is better than a dead dog." This is very tragic. We lost our sense and sensibility when we are burden with what appeared like an unresolvable problem. He could have sought help. If only, he called on God's help. I'm sure God will send some help. God cares.

Who indeed is someone to judge whether others get to live or not.

So you think it's better to murder your own children than have them in someone else's care??? How depraved is that ??

That's a nice thought lady, but I thought your god, thru Jesus, implied we all have an active part in that caring too.

As for seeking out help,, we teach men in general and men in his position in particular, that to seek that kind of help is weak, and unmanly. You're just supposed to tough it out, be a man.

But, I guess as a woman, who has a circle of friends, and who doesn't have that standard to live up to, you don't get.

He gets no excuses or pardon from me, but I understand why he probably did it, and it amazes me it doesn't happen more often n this wonderfully sociopathic society we've created.

But there are many many people who grow up without parents who turn out just fine, trust me, I know ;) And knowing that their father killed himself is something that many kids grow up with too. The problem is, He killed himself, and he killed his wife, then he killed his kids If he wanted to be selfish, he could have killed himself and left the mother who could have raised the kids and supported them emotionally. So, that STUPID A$$HOLE should have realized that if he loved his kids at all..DON"T KILL ANYONE including himself. It's very simple...What he did is wrong. No excuses. If he didn't want to seek help because it looks "weak" or "unmanley" then he F8D that up because now he looks like very weak, unmanly and the biggest loser, coward EVER!

How sweet and loving of him to have made that decision for his entire family, so that they didn't have to worry about such a horrible life ahead...that way, they didn't even have to BOTHER with deciding how to commit suicide! How gallant.

Get real.

Boo! You are sick.

Leave everybody alone, just blow yourself to hell.

Damn right! He sounds like a real jerkface! I can't understand one bit why people are making excuses for this coward.?

Erin-pippa:

People are not making excuses for this man; they're trying to figure out WHY he did what he did. When they state what he may have been thinking or what might have prompted him to do this, they're not condoning what he did. He obviously did this for a reason and unless we as a society work together to understand the reason, this type of thing will continue to happen.

In my opinion the stressors in his life, including what we know and don't know about this man, caused him to snap and he was not in his right mind. I'm not saying that this is in any way OK, it's simply a fact.

Sitting by and calling the man a jerkface and other childish names does nothing to prevent this from happening again.

While it appears to be murder/suicide the case is not yet closed. There was no mention of a note. The police are not yet releasing how they died because this is all still under investigation. I'm sure they are probably still questioning those who knew them including neighbors. Did anyone see him drive off alone? That has not been answered. It is possible that since he was probably in a major financial disaster that he could have borrowed money from someone shady that could not be paid back. I'm sure that all of this and a lot more will be checked out before they close the case.

You got a point, it could have been a setup. I'd like to think that was the case but with over a 1/2 million dollars in debt it's hard to say.

There are so many things I would like to say but I wont. Infidelity could be the straw that broke the camels back if it really was the husband who did this.

I am very interested in hearing what the details were, if only because this is just CRAZY.

The problem here is that the majority of the time they will forget this story by tommorrow and we never find out the full outcome. I see so many of these stories dropped without followup that it gets really aggravating.

Again I ask: MSNBC please stay on these stories and give us the rest when it unfolds, please!!!

jfl97-1

Quite the inflammatory remarks you have been posting. Go back to that rock you crawled out from under. Better yet why don't you practice being a parrot and repeat "get a life", "get a life", "get a life". There you go, you are doing so good. Leave the disscussions to us "true American" trash/parrots. Jerk!!!!

well yes danny boy in the same boat. after 35 years of a marrage made in hell with 5 now grown boys , my now x-wife decided to be a junkie to crystal meth. so now not only do I have to give her 1/2 my pay cheque or in laymans terms support her addiction for the rest of our natural lives and no she does not have to get a job.when given the choice of her dedicated family or the meth ..... she chose the meth. so now I have lost my job , because of the recent recession , and now facing an eviction notice because I can't afford to pay my bills. well guess what , I still have to pay her half the pay check I do not get any more , with the default penaltys and interest adding up. my unimployment check when it starts coming .... goes to her untill i al all caught up. oh i almost forgot .... guess who has to pay for her legal fees ........ yep , yours truely.

welcome to the maintenance enforcement act

somewhere along the road a bunch of high priced lawyers got to gether with a bunch of equally high priced doctors to lable drug addiction as a disease , to get addicts off with a slap on the wrist because they were too stoned or drunk to know what they were doing. well if that is what you do when you get drunk or stoned , it's really simple , don't it's your choice.

some one of you highly educated people out there please tell me where I'm wrong ........... diabeties , polio are some disease's . to the best of my knowledge all the people with them did not wake up one day and say .... hey , i think i'll try some polio today.

taking drugs , including alcohol are choices we make , not diseases we get.

now in responce to the subject of this discussion ....... here is something you all do not realize .......

everyone and I do mean everyone is capable of anything given the right circumstances or situation.

there are 2 sides to every story , sadly in this case here , we will have neither one , just possabilities from both sides of the coin , that does not have all the information.

I soooooooooo agree, my b-i-l taken to the cleaners so my sister could have her internet affair, they got back together...for a short time, she wigged out, met someone else, he is still getting his clocked cleaned, on his dime she has gone to school & got her degree! All the while the kids are the true victims.....you think step fathers are a treat....what do you think the # are of child molestation by these steps? The majority come from this scenario, not blood relatives.

What you are living with is truly un-just. All too often we hear of stoties like yours.

Somebody chooses to grow their own drug addiction problem and then society has to pay to support them because they are "disabled".

My fellow tax paying Americans, we cannot afford this. By God and all that is right, if you are too stupid to take personal responsibility, then I guess you're just going to have to suffer the price of your stupidity! How long can this go on? I'm fed-up!

The guy's wife made a ton more money than him. She wouldn't need alimony or money for the kids.

Sad to hear your stories about selfish people and addicts.

Danny, when you were in school, did you just blurt out irrelevant crap, like you do now?

MEAN MEAN MEAN, but funny

Well, people, you're just getting a picture of what divorce is typically like.

Did those of you who were offended by danny think it was a lark, just a dissolved contract?

I've seen my share of divorces from the outside, and the level of pain and hate it builds up can be incredible. And part of that is because people don't get the relationship between hate and love - they're not opposites, they run parallel. The true opposite of love or hate is indifference. Whether you love somebody or hate somebody, that somebody is always in your head and heart, for good or bad.

Blahk gross. That you could even suggest that this guy had a valid reason to kill his wife and kids.?? Many people have the same struggles as this guy had (if that was the case). And they don't kill everyone because their "mind and self esteem" is damaged. The men and women who get up and stop licking their ass and stop complaining are the ones who will eventually make it in life, not the cowards who sit around whinning about how they are treated so unfairly..boo hoo!!

K. Anderson: it isn't about need, and obviously you are unfamiliar with the epedemic of attacks on men in this society. vast numbers of women get alimony, custody or maintenence based on outdated laws. They take it because they can, not because of "need."

Sirs

I married a (poor) man after he really followed me and persuaded me with words of love. I sought little else. We worked hard and got a really nice home, fancy cars, enough for retirement, etc. I followed him round the world bec of his company transfers. I was in a foreign land with no help when he took the lot and left me with the child, never even asked for custody. He wld not give us our passports and beat us. I left with the clothes on me, with our child, when he attempted to throttle her. Yes, I practically starved for 6 months, sat in the library to avoid heating bills, stayed with anyone who needed a housesitter or a servant but saw to it that my child was fed, well exercised and schooled. I got job after job, usually part-time, and often took them bec I cld get fed or carry some free food back. I couldn't even afford a phonecall. Today my child and I are both fine with no help from anyone. I didn't buy a thing unless I really needed it, for years. We are happy, healthy and totally solvent. Yes we both understand money but alas have learned to trust no one: male or female. Alas, the ex drinks a lot and everyone sympathizes, listens to him when he says my wife took everything. My child went to private school, my husband told many he paid for it after leaving us. I got a job, he said he got me that job and so it went, bec we knew the same people. Anyway I stopped complaining /explaining when people wld make remarks like oh, is the ex alright now? Or he's found someone (while i was busy feeding a young child).

Aqua,you are obviously a woman,yeah i probably spoke up,instead of sitting behind a computer,with a Big Mouth,with nothing of value to inject in the conversation,Irrelevant,I Don't Think So. Go sit in a Divorce proceeding,and then will discuss fairness. And to Erin,well you are a piece of work aren't you??Go observe a court proceeding,and get back to us, the Sane and educated people on this forum.

Thought I'd drop back in and see what some of the comments were. So I'd just like to clarify a few points. first off I mde my bed and I'm laying in it , not bitching or complaining , just giving a few commentors a dose of reality.

The maintenance act was brought in to help take the load off our social service's , there were too many dead beat dad's going around knocking up women then moving on to the next .... or dropping their wives for some DD bimbo , ( sorry ladys nothing personal , just a term ) , after many years of slaving at home with household and family chores without any payment besides a roof over her head , most of the time giving up career's and life long ambitions. That made the abandoned family seek what we call welfare to survive.

So take your average , abusive , violent husband ..... and reverse the roles ..... my now X-wife was ADH&D with bi-polar tendancies ( this I found out about 5 years into the marrage ). Being raised in a broken family myself , I did not want our sons to be raised that way , being shipped back and forth between mom and dad , I took my marraige vows very seriously.

At any given time a mother in that situation can bundle up the kids and flee , be put in a safe house , found a place to live , get paid ( from tax payers money ) , free medical and dental +,+,+,+ .......

At one point during a very ugly episode , I done the same thing , I took the 5 boys at that time ages 3 -13 in the middle of the night and yes for our safety and went to the social services ....... what i as told was because ( not literally but in so many words ) I was a man , what they could do was place the kids in to foster care untill I got myself settled and then discuss having the boys returned to me.

Restraning orders are a joke , seriously they are a joke , virtually not enforceable until something happens , you all read the news headline stories every day , worse case senario someone gets killed.

Our law states a person of legal age unless they are a danger to themselves or someone else cannot be forced to do anything ..... yes she cut her wrists , yes she od'd on pills , yes she was taken to mental healh many times ...... but as long as she was not contemplating suicide or doing harm to any one .... she was free to go.

They can bring someone back from the dead , they can cure now what was once incurable diseases , reattach missing limbs and appendages , perform transplants ..... but they cannot cure the human mind ....... just pump them full of drugs to reduce the symptoms. And by law cannot force them to take them if you try it's called assult ..... they are consenting adults.

So please unill you walk in another persons shoes ..... well you know the rest.

Oh and just for the record , I waited untill all the boys were grown and on their own , except for the youngest ..... now 25 , he is also ADH&D , durring his assesment at sickkids hospital ..... what was not mentioned at the time was the fact his mom was an alcoholic drinking 24/7 when he was conceived , no not by me ...... I also suppport him , his last grade completed , not passed was grade 3 ..... they kept putting him on to the next grade ... then when he was 16 he was sent to high school , after one week they kicked him out because he could not do the work. He can't read or write , his mentality now is equal to a 12 year old.

But during the maintence hearing , I more than likley could have gotten off a little easier ...... with a lawyer , I would have had to sell everything I owned to pay for one , but there was absolutly no way I was going to force the kids to sit in front of a room full of spectators relive thise nightmare times and bad mouth their mom. They may not like what she has become ........... but they love her all the same.

Sorry I could not make them do that ...... this was between me and her.

The sadest part of this whole thing , is nothing will be done to put a stop to the real cause of what brought this tragic ending to a family and many more family's to come..... even if we did know each and every gory detail .................. yes very sad indeed.

Name one really mad man, who wasn't a madman, who decided to shoot his own kids. There have been plenty of men that killed themselves. And some who killed their wives, and turned the gun on themselves too. Those happen frequently enough. But his own young child? Times two? Sorry, that's a complete, regular madman. I don't know the why, but I do know the what: madness - for lack of a more specific term that we may never know, depending on the exact circumstances in this case.

We don't live under Deuteronomy anymore.....this is the OLD testament, they also sacrificed their children to idols so do you also? You people that teach this false stuff pick & choose what you want.

1 John 4:1-3
4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. NIV

I hope neither of you own any guns.

anne...ummm, where do I start? The Canaanites and others who followed the Ba'al and other "dungy idol" gods sacrificed their children. The Hebrews who followed their God (Yahweh, Jehovah, don't start on me...YHWH, however you want to pronounce it, it IS written in the scriptures numerous times) did NOT forsake their children in any way in their worship. YOU might not live under the old Testament but those of us who follow the Word of God today---still do. (The Ten Commandments leaps to mind, for starters...ever hear of them?) So you are quoting from what may possibly be the most adulterated version of the Bible since the King James, and you are denying that the two testaments go together? Please, educate yourself or keep your discourse to something you DO understand.

Yeah, this way he gains no street cred...what was he thinking?

Pandadude: wow..people gain respect from murdering innocent people??? What planet are you from??? oh wait, let me dumb it down for you...wut planit iz u frum? Y U B sayn that sh*t bout killin dem fokes? Man u aint rite. Sorry but I didn't know how to do punctuation you would understand. have someone read it to you. Worm.

i bet if this guy was a muslim u would all start saying muslims are terrorists extremeists fundamentalists and some nonsense like that.!!..while actually this has nothing to do with religion.!! funny how people became so silly these days

doesn't even take this for me to acknowledge what agenda muslims have but since you bring it up: your worldwide Shari'a law is a religious duty, free speech & democracy are abominations & MUST be eliminated. "Creeping Shari'a" the slow movement of this law into nations around the world now whereas drinkers & gamblers are whipped, husbands to hit their wives, literally a eye for an eye and a thief to have his hand cut off, homosexuals executed; unmarried fornicators whipped & adulterers stonned to death. Also orders death for muslim & non muslim critics of muhammad, the qu'ran & Shari'a itself. Commands offensive, aggressive and unjust JIHAD. As written in the Qu'ran Shari'a is the law of Allah, any other form of govt. is a SIN! It is the DUTY of every muslim to keep striving until all govts have been converted to Shari'a law. Muslims are allowed to DECEIVE non muslims if it helps Islam, this principle called TAQIYYA, while we work on the concept of lying being "wrong" in our religions here in USA, your religions tells you to lie to gain trust of non muslims to gain control. ISLAM says they are a religion of peace, its only the EXTREMISTS as stated in your post & call us silly we have become...NO you are a liar...you know you are a liar....it all part of the plan dude....wake up AMERICA check it out You tube, 3 things about Islam

Nayer Mohamed- Really? Simple, one-track mind you are. . Are muslims allowed to gamble?

Have a nice day