Mike, did you read the article? While it has several conflicting points, (most notable that concerning what the police dept. knew about his history) the article said he had several different jobs.

It is incredibly sad this mentally disturbed man was able to slip thru the cracks of society until it was too late. There were numerous warning signs, yet, no one did anything about it.

The one bright spot of this article is the AZ legislature sending a bill to the Gov. to ban picketing at Funerals. Yea! A least some still realize that funerals should be held with quiet respect.

You can't blame Palin herself for this shooting but you can point to her as one of the leaders of this hate mongering trend that has developed in politics. The Republicans/Tea party are the biggest offenders but the liberals certainly deserve blame too.

Palin wont apologize and I don't blame her. She doesn't need to. She has found her audience like Rush has too...they operate on feelings instead of logic. So do most liberals.

The masses are sheep and there are a lot of shepherds waiting to lead them to slaughter...it's a shame the world has only ever known one true good shepherd...and look what they did to Him.

Too late to defend Palin. She's made her bed, now she must lie in it. People aren't complete fools - they know ugly when they see it. Hateful rhetoric and arrogant denials are ugly. Now she's pointing the finger at everbody else for things that she has only herself to blame.

And it was your president Obama the communist that said and i quote: "if they bring a knife to a fight, Ill bring a gun" So what was that about? Why is Obama not in jail? If Bush said that they would have put a rope up in a tree and hung him right there. You will have a hard time even finding the article on this statement because the communist media in this country is hiding it.

What, the party of "Take personal responsibility" is pointing a finger at someone else? Say it ain't so...

Face reality .... You can't protect everyone from everything .. Nor can you lock every potential nutbag that roams our country! ..

Nor can you predict whats going to trigger this behavior. Its all about numbers and probabilities ... risks ..

Is the Rhetoric by extremist on both sides over heated? Absolutely!

Should we take some legal action to prevent it ? ... No !

This will be another excuse to shut down American liberties again in the name of public safety ... Thats BS! ...

A great deal of the unrest in this country is over the suppression of liberty & free speech ... any more laws to stifle dissent will only exacerbate the situation and cause more internalization of the anger

that people feel. Thats why we live in a free society, risk are a part of our system; and what we have just seen is the safety valve going off ....

Accept it and move on .. tragedy's occur with regularity, we cant control occurrences like this by laws .. but by communications, trust & .....truth.

Are you kidding, the other side was talking about Palin being in the cross hairs, too. Guess what? Not everything is political.

This is about a mentally ill man. Obviously, there were MANY people who knew he wasn't right. We need to find a way to help these individuals, before something like this happens again. It's really sad that so many were afraid of this man (including classmates, teacher- note these individual were NOT political figures) and no one knew what to do. Even the sheriff's office apparently had been aware of this individual previously...could this be why he is deflecting?

Why is anyone pointing a finger. Loughner bought the gun and pulled the trigger. End of story. Palin just has to worry about what she says and does. She is a finger pointer and is irresponsible. She alarms the popluace by menacing it by any means she can with hobgoblins because she wants to control us. However, she did not put the gun in Laughner's hand. She did not buy the ammunition. She did not helped him to pull the trigger. He did that all by his lonesome self.

The liberals? The conservatives? You live in too small of a world.

Remember Obama et al motto:.....Never let a good crisis go to waste.

And it is despicable that the liberals are using this tragedy to push their political agenda.

Do you know how many politicians have used the exact same "rhetoric" TenAngryHamsters?

Who said: "I need to know who's ass to kick"?

Or: "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun"?

How about: That governor down in Florida, Scott, should be SHOT"?

Here's a clue: It wasn't Palin.

In fact two of those were from our "civil and peaceful" president.

The list of political ads using that kind of language is ENDLESS!

People who try and lay the blame on Palin are just as deranged as Jared Loughner......Hamster.

This entire hate smear began when Soros spent millions of dollars for liberal journalists to blight the right's candidates. Sarah had done NOTHING, when the rumors, hate mail and hate articles started flowing from the media.

>Sarah Palin had death threats and deliberate consipiracy smears from the ilk of liberal journolists

New Hampshire Dem Candidate Wishes Palin was Killed in Alaska Plane Crash

http://yesbuthowever.com/palin-death-wish-8500002/

Liberal 'Reporters' Plot Smears On 'Journolist'

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/liberal-%E2%80%98reporters%E2%80%99-plot-smears-on-%E2%80%98journolist%E2%80%99
"""The Daily Caller broke the story recently. The "Journolist" included upwards of 400 reporters and other liberal elitists who schemed online to protect Obama from negative stories about Jeremiah Wright; plotted to smear Sarah Palin as soon as she was named McCain's Vice President; discussed the joys of watching Rush Limbaugh die; and discussing what could be done to shut down Fox News by having the FCC yank its broadcast license. """

JournoListers Conspired To Destroy Sarah Palin Day McCain Picked Her

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/07/22/journolisters-conspired-destroy-sarah-palin-day-mccain-picked-her

jeff-935318, here's the quote in what I suppose is it's entirety:

Mobster wisdom tells us never to bring a knife to a gun fight. But what does political wisdom say about bringing a gun to a knife fight? That's exactly what Barack Obama said he would do to counter Republican attacks "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. "Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I've seen Eagles fans."

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/10/obama-flashback-if-they-bring-knife-fight-we-bring-gun#

Of course courtesy of Faux News.

So let me get this right. You defend the use of a map with gun sights on it, and the quote that was used often "don't retreat, reload", with an obscure Obama quote? And then decide that because of this Obama should be in jail? really? And you see absolutely nothing wrong with this line of thinking? Really?

Listen, I have been one of those folks who stated all weekend that until I heard something from the man's mouth that clearly stated he was a Palin follower or a Tea Partier, there was no direct connection to be had. However, I have always felt that it is not the people in their right minds we have to worry about, but those who are not that will cause all the problems, and are why those with influence need to watch what they say. And I have to tell you, after reading your extremely convoluted statement...I know what I have been thinking is right on the money.

Tell me. Have you been checked out lately?

Even Sarah's Tea Party Candidate used "Gabrielle Giffords" name and getting to fire an M-16 at a rally in the same sentence in an advertisement.

Totally Irresponsible!!!!!!!

What we need are more "words of peace from Obama!"

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

"Get out there and “punish our enemies!”

“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

“Punch back twice as hard!”

I want to know whose ass to kick… I’m itching for a fight!"

What a great example for us all to follow? What an absolute phony!

Nice statement, Sarah! Who wrote it for you? Write your own releases and take responsibility for your own actions and maybe you'd build the credibility you lack.

Listen to the spew of Obama's vitriol on the link below

Jared Loughner In his Own Words, The Truth About Rep. Giffords Shooter, Background, Bio

http://www.politicalchips.org/video/jared-loughner-in-his-own?xg_source=activity

Sarah "crosshairs" Palin.

What does this sign mean? (seen by men carrying a gun at tea party event?

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Take a good look at the last sentence on your very own liberal website, DAILYKOS!

The left side of the lunatic fringe check out the DailyKos and Common Dreams. The right side of the lunatic fringe hang out at the Drudge Report and World Net Daily. All four sites are basically just extremist propaganda, and rational, moderate people, the vast majority of Americans, pay no attention to any of them.

Pot (Sarah), meet Kettle.

As a registered Republican (and I am), NO, Sarah, it is YOU who are irresponsible. Your campaign strategy is to incite Fear, Hatred, and Loathing. You break apart -- instead of bring together -- your party.

I'm pretty sure inciting violence in this country is a crime. You shouldn't be running for anything other than law enforcement. I can't believe someone hasn't already pressed charges against you -- OH WAIT, they have!

tenangryhamsters It is your kind of rhetoric that President Obama and Sarah Palin want to stop before another leftwing/nutjob goes off!

Thanks Phil, well put, and Amen to your last sentence........

Palin in her video pointed out she had needed "a few days" to think of how to respond........

I would guess it took me a few minutes and would bet most people the same to at least say how shocked and saddened they were. Ms. Palin has once again blown it with the American people and displayed her total inability to make a decision and speak out to the American people in a timely manner. Her need to blame everyone else constantly in her statements has not and will not sereve her well when it comes to her anticipated bid for our highest office.

As a republican I obviously do not care for Obama's policies. However Obama over this very cold hearted woman would sadly be a better trade off. Then again it would be a close race.

Sarah "crosshair" Palin

Why take down your hit list after the shooting?

Actually I don't think anyone is blaming anyone except the shooter here. The distinction that many are missing is that it's possible to say that violent political rhetoric is irresponsible and dangerous without taking the extra step of saying that a poltician that uses such language is responsible for the tragedy.

One can make a mistake that plays a causal role in a crime without being responsible for that crime.

As a liberal, I'm not even willing to say that the violent rhetoric of Palin, Beck, or anyone else even played a causal role in this crime. This guy was so completely insane that it seems rather silly to try to pin any particular political label on him. The only point I am pushing is that this case serves as a reminder that there are unhinged maniacs out there. For that reason, politicians and talk show hosts need to show some common sense in the metaphors they use in the course of political discussion.

Any sane person would recognize Palin's "don't retreat, reload" comment and Obama's line about "bringing a gun to a knife fight" as entirely metaphorical in nature. Most can listen to the angry rantings of political talk show hosts and recogize them as -- to use Glenn Beck's words -- the "rodeo clowns" that they are.

Nonetheless, this incident (regardless of the shooter's motives) reminds us that there are unhinged, mentally unbalanced people out there. We need to -- dare I say it? --- take some personal responsibility for the things we say in the context of our political debates. We can have heated political debates without trying to make the other side sound like inhuman monsters on some sort of quest to destroy America. Such talk may not be responsible for the crimes of the rare maniac but it is, most assuredly, IRRESPONSIBLE.

The quotes that I find leave out the preceeding part, "Mobster wisdom tells us never" was not part of it. Obviously, that was the line in the movie, but it doesn't appear to be what he said. This is what appears to be what he said:

He said would do to counter Republican attacks “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”.

Isn't it interesting that the YouTube videos has been removed...it was there.

Why should I be responsible in finger pointing when no one else is ? Why am I held to a higher standard than politicians and MEDIA pundits ? I have Ten finger and ten toe and they all point at the Sarah "idiot" Palin and the Tea "crazy" Party

I really wish the republicans were sincere about the idea of placing SOLE blame on the individual, perhaps then we can end both of these 2 pointless wars that we are throwing away billions on.

Yet, I suspect that this idea of only holding the invidual responsible only applies to white people, specifically white men. Had this been a liberal woman who had done this, feminism would be under attack...bet your bottom dollar it would be.

I don't blame Palin for a damn thing and I don't even recognise her as belonging to the human race. I guess she does have the DNA of a human so I will concede that point. What burns me up though, the chutzpah, the nerve to call her a former or ex-governor. She aborted her term, She QUIT! It makes as much sense to call a childless woman who had a miscarriage a Mother. The only reason I recognise Nixon as an ex-president is because he managed to lie his way though 1 term before he got caught, which is more than she could accomplish.

Gee, and it only took Battlecry Barbie 4 days to come up with this? Her "don't retreat-reload" is ok, it's the press and media that's wrong? Time to man-up, Sarah. You guys have been begging for second amendment remedies and bullets if ballots don't work.

Poor me, waaahhhh.........

Dolt.

PhilCommander.maybe you can not blame Palin herself..but..the thing is,,,all politicans have gone down this road..throwing threats or whatever toward one another as if it means nothing...problem is it does. It is meant to move people toward that politicans thoughts and what he or she wants. None accept responsibility fior anything they do, not one. But they all are throwing the blame towards each other...our elected are suppose to be smart people capable of making meaningfull ideas and making them happen. This kind of blame game they are all showing now shows us all if we want to see it, jus6t what kind of people we have elected into office . Not one, including Palin has the back bone to admit they made mistakes nor will they ever.

MG - Your point is what I think many of the posters on here are missing. There is really no need for the hateful name calling and labeling we see in political discourse. If you don't want someone to listen to what you are saying to them, call them a racist, socialist, tea bagger or communist or wing nut. That does not encourage discussion. All that will do in most cases is inflame the discussion and proceedings. Pretty simple, and as you said, that behavior by those who practice it is irresponsible.

Sorry Mike ...you and all the others, pointing to the parents ARE IDIOTS... Low Life self righteous finger pointers...with no clue to reality. Period.

I know for a FACT that EVERY professional from a school principal... to an MD... to a therapist...to a psychologist... to a psychiatrist...to an attorney(s) will BLOW a parent off...IF your child is 18 or over.

So, you and all the other idiots need to focus on all the professionals who MAKE MONEY treating a young disturbed individual AND if the this same disturned yong individual has some rational skills can EASILY turn all these proffessionals against any concerned parent by simply make a FAULT claim on the parrent, in almost any context, with a simple allegation.

What is more gaulling is the parent is paying for the services of the very same professionals in an attempt to get help and bring attention to disturbing behavior.

It gets even worse, if legal proceedings are involved and a "smart" disturbed young person is afforded "rights", he/she can actually get these same proffesionals to work in his defense.

I know I have been there...

I tried every argument to "STAY in the Picture" went nose to nose with these self "annointed" professionals, to no avail. I call them p[rofessionals because they have professional licenses to either hold their positions or practice their specialized careers.

For the most part these professionals are a more than 10 years senior to the 18 year old. They all want to exclude the parent. They usually use thei now abused line, Your child has "privacy rights" BS.....

Oh by the way...the schools are the worse as to excuding the parent from participating in discussions of troubling behavior...EVEN when a school district psychologist is called in.

Palin is absolutely correct. "It's time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions". So Sarah, take your accountability piece of the pie and choke on it. You knowlingly and purposely incite those who are on the fringe, and now you have the blood of a child on your hands. You must be very proud.

"It is incredibly sad this mentally disturbed man was able to slip thruthe cracks of society until it was too late. There were numerous warning signs, yet, no one did anything about it."

There are surely thousands and thousands of people with mental health issues that are untreated. In a free society we cannot force these people into help until they are likely court ordered. That requires anarrest and a pyschological evaluation. This guy never apparently got to that level. I work with medical software and have had to visit institutions . This guy may have talked to himself and acted strangely towards others but he apparently didn't try to hurt himself or anyone else until this act. In these institutions there are people who have to restrained or drugged into submission because they are so mentally defective they cannot be trusted. They might hurt themselves or they would throw feces at the staff or attempt to assault them if given the briefest opportunity. There are all different levels of mental illness. Some of the comments on this board on Saturday were made by some very disturbed individuals. They are still walking the streets. There are plenty of Loughner's out there but until they act out there is little we can do other than encourage them to seek help.

He is almost certainly clinically insane. He snapped. And he is never going back now. An expedient trial and then euthanasia would be the best remedy at this point. He will never again be a contributing member of society.

I don't hate the woman but she is consumed by her SELF belief she can be president and will walk over anyone to get there. The Republican Party has something on her and the preferable boot will go in before any election campaign. It does not need a democrat to move a hair, or should I say cross–hair. Her carefully choreographed presidential type speech will only make her president of the local Alaskan gun club.

No Palin, no dumb down politics in America.

Enough with the Sarah blaming. You have no proof Jared followed, or even saw the information you are spouting. I've not even seen the pictures or comments in question and I am on the Internet everyday. Wild assumption is the ignorants way of schlepping thru life. They get through, but with many unsubstantiated, and unnecessary beliefs. But they are more than happy to share their assumptions with others rather than the simple truth. Too bad, the others don't always figure out the truth of what they are hearing, it is easier to be a lemming and perpetuate the lie.

Everyone is always so fast to find out who caused this person to do something. What happened to personal responsibility? To say it's Palin's fault because she had a reticle on her website is ridiculous. No on blamed the Bush protesters when he had a shoe thrown at him, and they had extremely violent phrases on them. Is it the movies fault? They shoot politicians in lots of movies. Blaming others for another's crime is one of the things bringing this country down. Take responsibility for yourself and make others do the same. If I were to cheat on my wife could I blame Facebook, The Hilton, and Trojan? They gave me the means to do it. No I acted on my own and I am the only one to blame.

Spider "My, my the looney left will take any opportunity to attack Palin, even when she's absolutely, inarguably right!"

Except, she's not inarguably right...hell, the woman cant even produce her own quote without borrowing Ronald Reagans words. Surely she must have something in that pretty little head of hers that can be considered her own thoughts, right? Aside from that, she's only got one valid point - that it was irresponsible of many pundits to point fingers at anyone in particular, however its not unfair to question just how much of a role the violent rhetoric has played in this scenario...and yes, calling out both sides would be necessary. yet, when you try to pull together over the past 2 years the quotes from both sides of the aisle - and if your honest about it - you'll see just how much longer the list on the right is filled with violent imagery. Sure, Obama's Bring a gun to a knife fight (which is a quote from a movie) is definitely using violent imagery...however, if you have enough brain cells to notice...it implies that BOTH sides are interested in a fight. Whereas much of the imagery on the right implies that someone is simply going to take someone else out, such as "dont retreat, reload"...and "if ballots dont work, bullets will"...or "2nd amendment remedies" if things dont go their way.

Does that mean this kid was SPECIFICALLY influenced by any of it? Absolutely not...however, if today he came out and said "Sarah Palin is my hero, all tea party members are the real americans because they support the constitution and are opposed to the tyranny of our govt"...would you STILL believe that republicans, and more specifically the crazier ones amongst them (such as the tea party) really had no influence?

Something tells me we'd still be hearing the same "cant point the finger at us, he's a special kind of crazy, we are just your normal brand of crazy".

"The left and their media took a tragedy that had nothing to do with politics and used it as an excuse for what they do best....attacking those with whom they disagree. Disgusting!"

Now that's rich, nothing to do with politics? Now i know definitely just how delusional you folks are...i mean, its one thing to state that its hard to discern what exactly his politics were, however, there's no doubt that this entire tragedy was at least 50% about politics, 50% about insanity.

Of course, ask your buddies Bush and Cheney how easy it is to take advantage of a great tragedy for their own personal vendetta's...ya know, we didnt just go after those we knew were involved, no, we waged a war against an entire religion...er, I mean, just the "extremists" in that religion...and crusaded into 2 pointless wars, against 2 nations who had nothing more to do with 9/11 than our own nation did.

Perhaps its time the republicans practice what they are now preaching, that when heinous horrible unspeakable acts occur, like mass shootings, bombings and even worse, like 9/11 - that they are in fact that acts of derranged, sick individuals - and regardless of what ever influences MAY or MAY NOT have been in their lives, THEY ALONE made the choices to carry out those acts...if its valid enough a tactic to use against AMERICAN TERRORISTS, then surely its a valid approach to foreign born ones too.

A Republican not taking even the slightest shred of responsibility. Stunning. Maybe if we cut taxes by 4 more percent it would make Sarah feel better.

Damned right! Palin has NEVER been responsible for anything. Her books and her statements make it clear: SHE IS THE VICTIM.

It's the media! It's all those mean, old, nasty people who hate her! It's the lawyers! It's the President!

It cannot possibly be Sarah. I say that with absolute certainty. And how can I be so dead-on certain? BECAUSE SARAH SAYS SO!

Gotta go now. It's time to re-load.

As someone who your experts would diagnose with a mental problem, I am happy to say that I have made through my entire life without being medicated with your wonder drugs, and I think that is the reson that I am so content. I don't want your medications, and I don't need them, stop blaming everything on an addiction, unless you are willing to admit that the addiction comes from the drugs that you are prescribing!

Right Mike; you know zero of mental illness. Kick him out on the streets?? People like you are what cause people like Loughner.

Sarah, one thing you need to come to an understanding about is that I don't need a pundit or journalist to tell me what to think. As soon as I heard the news, I knew where this was going. You see, at this point it really doesn't matter what the gunman was thinking or his politics. This is an opportunity to say ENOUGH and re-examine the trend of the fanatical right. Do we need to wait until the next gunman mows down more innocent people and has a verifiable political axe to grind before we consider what you're doing is wrong?

All you have to do is take responsibility for what you've said in the past, commit yourself and your party to not do it anymore, and move on. You know what you did was wrong. Denying it just makes you look really clueless. Oh, I forgot. You are clueless...

I think Palin has a nice "azz".

But I will comply if you will, salem.

Or is that all you got?

Don't forget Beck and Limbaugh and Hannity and Bachman and O'Reilly and Kate Gosslin, and Oprah, and the Easter Bunny, and Mohammed, and Peter Pan peanut butter and "Balloon Boy" and ALL the potential inciters we've yet to learn about via the unfair and unbalanced loony lefty media.

I figure by this time next year, whoever the frontrunner is for the republican party's presidential bid, will be the one who incited this kid to shoot all those people.

That sound about right salem?

Honestly, blaming Palin's ad for this tragedy is inane.

Everything I've come to expect from the loony left!

@ vox, Jared's FRIENDS were afraid of him! The University Police suspended him and would only let him return if a Psychologist sent a document attesting Jared would not harm others. He was in trouble with the law, he disturbed those in his own neighboorhood. His own friends stopped communicating with him LAST MARCH due to his increasingly erratic behavior. It used to be people going through something like this would be evaluated, even against his will if others thought he could harm himself or others. Now, the mentally ill have more "rights" to be allowed to be mentally ill and no one can step in on their behalf. (Until something like this happens.) You know, if this is the type of society the majority believe to be right and true, then no one should be surprised when events like this tragedy take place. We, as a Society, have enabled this to happen, therefore, Society should be accepting the consequences of this belief. Not pointing fingers and making excuses. You can't have it both ways.

I would be helpful if people understand the Mental Health system and Mental Illnesses. Google it!

You cannot force any one into treatment unless they are ordered by the Court. It seems he was not such a threat.

A person can only be committed if they are a danger to themselves or others. this committment is called a 72 hour hold. If they are no longer a danger, they are released.

You cannot go around locking up all mentally ill people, that ability left 40 years ago

How many mass murderers or killers are mentally ill.

Jeff,

If you're going to quote the President, at least put the quote into context. Obviously, you didn't read the transcript of the speech.

It's true that the only person responsible for this shooting is Loughner. People must be accountable for their actions.

However, the point people are trying about hateful rhetoric is also true. I don't think this highly vitriolic, and politicized, environment helped the situation. Think about it for a moment. This guy hated the government. All you have to do is look at the posts on this site to the bad blood between the left and right. I don't see rational discussion. I see name calling, intolerance, and paranoia. Is it possible this type of environment might agitate someone who hates the government?

Loughner is solely to blame for the shooting. But everyone is responsible for the decline in civility and respect that's occuring in society today.

Elements of the Crime..... Just study the criminal

Method, means, and opportunity...Ah, I leave out motive, which is the basis of most points of view related to this article and or Sarah Palin, for a good reason. It doesn't matter…. just a needed judicial concept in a punishment mechanism.

This unacceptable act is simply a crystallized vapor of the frailties of our human condition, repeated time and again to some degree or level of association by most incarcerated in our prison systems.

People in general are a kaleidoscope of influences processed by our intellects. A twist... a turn, and our imagery changes, thousands of entities pouring forth their words of influence upon the masses.

Most points raised here would like to hold accountable the single one influence that "tipped" the scale of rational loving emotions into rational hating emotions leading to the shootings.

A rational person looking through a focused lens can see imbedded hostility in both the criminal elements of our society and the supposed non-criminal, "honorable" or at least, un-indictable segments of our society.

Heck read the rage and hate of the consumer websites for people getting ripped off by corporate greed or workplace abuses, or government administrative failures in social service departments, such as Social Security, Medicare, Education.... all submissions are vitriolic.

So at any one moment there lies the possibility that in someone’s mind, Chaos is the best choice thru a cheap and bizarre act,… fermented in the predisposed mind well before this shooting event.

Right now the public is saying we are in a locked theater and somebody has yelled fire. Let me out'a here.

Social order, in opposition with personal freedom of choice does ferment rebellion, jokingly handled in western culture as a "phase" of our young children. The shooting was an act of juvenile rebellion... nothing more

You can wax your minds till they harden into a culprit of consensus, such as Sarah Palin, but it would be no more accurate than a witch hunt.

Life in general can makes strange minds even stranger when the haves versus the have not’s has become the number one delineation in the society. Where a member of the have not’s remediate themselves into pawns of popular culture,… usually into the juvenile and rebellious segment.

Rage and hostility are a daily fare, existing before the economic downturn and now with life having more monetary constraints...leaving many with less room for frustrations and disappointments, possibilities for recovery, either severely diminished and/or evaporated for some,.... such was/ is the mindset for the shooter.

For some insanity or insane acts is a rational state of mind.

What is in the news are knee jerk reactions, especially by the head Sherriff. Whether or not he realized it... he added to societal division of..... them against us,… them being anybody with anti government beliefs or simply those with anti-social leanings or lifestyles.

The same “ law enforcement” reasoning believing the immigration problem can be solved with a fence..

This is a terrible tragedy and I also agree the political rhetoric is getting more hostile.

But please, have I missed it, or is there any evidence that Loughner actually followed Palin?

The shooter registered as an Independent, his voter registration card is online. He did not have any political affiliation. He voted in 2008, but did not vote in 2010. See for yourself.

Sawah is done as a leader - go count your money...maybe just maybe if you come back a little more honest about YOUR ROLE in this divisive political climate, we'll allow you to run for mayor of Wasilla again...

Disgusting

Seems to me there was people that was inferring it was time to arm our selves and revolt thats the way Palin came off and now its not her fault? There are some weak minded people out there that respones like a bunch of sheep and you all know who you are, remember when Texas wanted to succed from the Union, and people was saying crap about it, this is the kind of crap that creates these kinds of people, so don't say its no ones fault this clown sure did not think of this him self ...

I believe she did have an unwilling part in this, her marking politicians on a map promoted this sort of thing. What she did not think that someone would follow through with her dumb rhetoric? Just because she did not agree with these politicians views, she had no right to make them a target.

Sarah "crosshairs" Palin

I wish you would refudiate Rep Giffords statement to her face

"We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and ... for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action..."

- Gabrielle Giffords

Sarah "crosshairs" Palin

Hows that hit listy thing going?

Actually, it looks like this nut had Giffords "in his sights" for a long time:

"Capt. Chris Nanos said all the writings were either in an envelope or on a form letter Giffords' office sent him in 2007 after he signed in at one of her "Congress on Your Conner" events — the same kind of gathering where the massacre occurred."

That's 2007 people? So WHAT DID SHE DO OR NOT DO TO APPEASE HIM? Did she snub him (in HIS eyes of course), was it the form letter instead of personal signature? In this kind of gathering the "host" only has a moment for each individual IF they can even get close enough for a quick handshake and greet. Speculation of course on my part- but I can see Ms. Giffords shaking his hand as he bursts into a diatribe about whatever at that moment, and is moved along, or she is- he took it personal and has stewed over it since 2007. It would be interesting if anyone has tapes of THAT event, to scrutinize and see if he got anywhere near her then.

What about ALL the hate speach Obama spews? He IS the hater in Chief!

Dear, dear Sara, open up that purse and spend a little of the hoard you've bilked out of fools to hire decent writers. Almost every word uttered in your self-defense can and should be used against you. Individual responsibility? Where is your's in this matter? For the record; I do not hate nor fear Sara Palin. I pity her almost as much as I pity the blind mice that follow and support her.

That's 2007 people?

That is a good point....2007 Palin was unheard of.

Palin had nothing to do with this. I doubt Loughner ever looked at her site, as he was perusing communist material and was a registered democrate through 2009.

Daily Kos 'Bull's-eyed' Giffords for Defeat

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Daily-Kos-Bullseyed-Giffords/2011/01/10/id/382350?s=al&promo_code=B6E7-1

""" one of the Internet's most popular progressive activist sites targeted Giffords for electoral defeat in 2008 in much the same way as Palin's "cross-hairs" map did in 2010 — with Daily Kos founder and publisher Markos Moulitsas even using the term "bull's-eye.""""

Too late to defend Palin. She's made her bed, now she must lie in it. People aren't complete fools - they know ugly when they see it. Hateful rhetoric and arrogant denials are ugly. Now she's pointing the finger at everbody else for things that she has only herself to blame.

It is a shame that the Tucson massacreis being use for cheap propaganda and political gain.Palin is in the crosshair for the left for the last since she was candidate for VP , the left , media bias leftist TV commentators and some Democrat play the game of character assassination to destroy this woman because she is a conservative woman , something that the left cant take. Palin is constantly victim of treats, her e-mails was stolen for a democrat now in jail, an army of lawyers went to Wasilla to dig in to the mod to find something against her, her whole family is victim arrasment. What else do you want. There is more hate toward this woman than any politician ever know. This accusation, this political attack is no more than revenge for her victory in November election when liberals lost the election.

Well said, Oskar!

Sarah Palin had death threats and deliberate consipiracy smears from the ilk of liberal journolists

New Hampshire Dem Candidate Wishes Palin was Killed in Alaska Plane Crash

http://yesbuthowever.com/palin-death-wish-8500002/

Liberal 'Reporters' Plot Smears On 'Journolist'

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/liberal-%E2%80%98reporters%E2%80%99-plot-smears-on-%E2%80%98journolist%E2%80%99

"""The Daily Caller broke the story recently. The "Journolist" included upwards of 400 reporters and other liberal elitists who schemed online to protect Obama from negative stories about Jeremiah Wright; plotted to smear Sarah Palin as soon as she was named McCain's Vice President; discussed the joys of watching Rush Limbaugh die; and discussing what could be done to shut down Fox News by having the FCC yank its broadcast license. """

JournoListers Conspired To Destroy Sarah Palin Day McCain Picked Her

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/07/22/journolisters-conspired-destroy-sarah-palin-day-mccain-picked-her

This is incredible; the radical left is so seething with hate they can’t think straight. How many of the leftist ideologues have ranted on about how this shooting is the fault of conservative radio, TV, pundits, etc., and by their own admission, completely without a shred of evidence.

So what’s their goal?

While there certainly is an abundance of left wing whack jobs whose brains are addled by their ideology, there are others that are more sinister.

Consider that they are flinging much of you-know-what against the wall hoping something will stick. First they rage on about how this shooter must be a right winger only to discover he’s simply a deranged nut case with no real political affiliation. OK, that didn’t stick so next they attempt to accuse the aforementioned talk radio, TV, and other prominent conservative individuals of inciting this shooting, completely without any shred of evidence. Doesn’t seem to be sticking either. Oh well, the next clump thrown against the wall is this criticism of conservative dialog employing the word of the day “vitriol” (the left employs “vitriol” with regularity but they consider it OK when it’s coming from them) which is a backdoor attempt at censorship. If all this fails, they reason, at least our left wing zombies will, as usual, take all our ranting as gospel. They also consider that as an added benefit they may get some gun restrictions out of this.

The progressive/socialist bunch considers all opposing viewpoint as hate speech so they deem it appropriate to censor opposing views by any means necessary. How many times have we watched the nightly news as some speaker at some college was beset by unruly boisterous leftist students and prevented from presenting their speeches simply because of their particular viewpoint? The radical left is coming apart at the seams and in desperation they lash out at anyone or anything.

As further evidence of the mindless rantings of left the wing zombies, peruse these posts and you will see rantings over Palins use of cross-hairs even though it was demonstrated their left wing nut jobs employed the same exact graphics, yet the mindless ones rage on.

Palin used the word "respectfully" numerous times in her little spiel. Sarah, I saw you speak a little more two years ago in Western NC at a campaign rally. You showed NO RESPECT for anyone who disagrees with you. You lashed out at us progressives as wanting to harm this country. Don't come on all made up and cutesy and pretend you are not just as guilty (perhaps more-so) as any public figure for stoking the current political environment.

When you slyly attempted to compare Obama to South American dictators at the only Tea Party convention you used this falsehood to INCITE the crowd. Tell me about the current relationship between this administration and the likes of Chavez. There isn't one! Because there is no commonality.

When you called his policies pure socialism that term was used to INCITE the crowd. Government had to intervene in the economy because it was on the verge of total collapse. Regardless of your limited thinking it was the only possible solution (ask any qualified economist) or simply educate yourself on what caused the crisis. It wasn't governmental policy. It was the lack of market regulation. This is what happens when we have seven regulators watching $4 Trillion in assets. And every other civilized democracy on this planet has socialized medicine. Are they symbols of evil governance? Canada, UK, France, Germany, etc, etc. Get real!

When you recently denounced Obama's policies as DANGEROUS TO AMERICA you used those words to INCITE your supporters. You are talking to people who use the most pejorative terms to describe OUR President. You could set someone off with this language.

And when you put the likes of Giffords in crosshairs on a map admit it was simply an poor choice. But you used this to INCITE your supporters. You are not the first to make such an error in judgement. Admit this was in bad taste. Then we will move on, the we will listen.

And unless you truly believe that Obama and the rest of us Democrats desires to have the elderly or infirmed murdered or medically ignored do not use terms to INCITE your supporters like DEATH PANELS. Or are you really that cynical towards your opponents. Or is it all just an act!

Go to her Runners World interview and then read her comments on Obama. Were you even talking about the same person? I certainly wouldn't invite someone who would do such things as are listed above, into my home.

I swear that if she turns this issue to her advantage without changing her tone we must have gone through some sort of black hole and emerged in a parallel universe where logic is reversed.

Until she is willing to "man up" and admit that she has massively contributed to the current climate I will not take a single one of her vacant words seriously.

For those of you who "support" Palin I would suggest it is now time to stop playing the enabler. To even consider someone who cannot accept responsibility for high office is ridiculous. It is a lesson all of our leaders need to learn. If you say Obama behaves this way i would ask you how many times now has he admitted his mistakes? Backtracked on his words? This is necessary to a leader. Even GW did this toward the end of his administration. Clinton and Reagan were both poor role models on this. It is not a sign of weakness. Quite the opposite. You have not done this even once of which I am aware.

BE CLEAR THAT IN NO WAY DO I HOLD HER RESPONSIBLE FOR LOUGHNER. Sarah could not get through to him. Nor could anyone else.

Too late to defend Palin. She's made her bed, now she must lie in it. People aren't complete fools - they know ugly when they see it. Hateful rhetoric and arrogant denials are ugly. Now she's pointing the finger at everbody else for things that she has only herself to blame.

It wasn't any good the first time ...AngryGuy

Why do you think it got collapsed?

More substance please!

voxrationis
Would it be safe to assume that you don't care for Sarah Palin? (That's rhetorical by the way)

If Palin truely believes she did NOTHING wrong then why o why did she remove her GUN SIGHTS from her web page? If she did NOTHING wrong then there was NO REASON WHAT SO EVER for her to take them down. Her actions have shown that she DOES recognize that her use of gun sights was irresponsible. Oh and don't try to compare a BULL'S EYE to GUN SIGHTS they don't represent the same thing not by a long shot! And yes I denounce Dems for using gun sight imaging as well.

The WORST statement by FAR was the Second Ammendment remedies crap. That staement was not in the least subtle. What was CLEARLY meant was that if you don't like the results of an election ASSASINATING the winner is your CONSTITUTIONAL right. Make no mistake we do NOT have the right to assasinate our elected officials when we don't like the results of an election.

Regardless of whether you defend her or blame her, I think one thing is clear. Any hope Palin had of holding an elected nationwide office in this country is over. We may have fringe extremist candidates from time to time, but we are not a country that elects them to national office.

RC (re post 1.41) For the most part these professionals are a more than 10 years senior to the 18 year old. They all want to exclude the parent. They usually use thei now abused line, Your child has "privacy rights" BS.....

The professionals have a LEGAL responsibility to exclude everyone if the client is 18 unless the client gives permission. That 18+ year old has the same privacy rights you do. If you are going to complain about the professionals following HIPPA you'd have to also be willing to do away with any of your own privacy and allow them to talk to whomever they choose about your information without your consent. Also, professionals have a legal duty to warn so if they had SPECIFIC information that an identified party was at risk of being harmed, they would have to notify the police (not the parents). Without the specific information, their hands are tied by the law.

AP-1414066
Regardless of whether you defend her or blame her, I think one thing is clear. Any hope Palin had of holding an elected nationwide office in this country is over. We may have fringe extremist candidates from time to time, but we are not a country that elects them to national office.

I wish that were true but do to the primary process we are electing more and more extremists on BOTH sides of the ailse. The fact is it's the base of both parties who determine who we get to vote for in the election and the base tend to hold the most extreme views. Just look at the TP candidates and the type of voters who got them nominated.

Dr B is correct. I have had some experience w/ issues of mental health, & that's the way it legally works.

It is incredibly sad this mentally disturbed man was able to slip thru the cracks of society until it was too late. There were numerous warning signs, yet, no one did anything about it.

Cracks of society? That's not society's job....nor is it society's job to get this guy help. His family should be tried for negligence....not Palin, and not society.

This is incredible; the radical left is so seething with hate they can’t think straight.

This is incredible; the radical right is so seething with hate they can't think straight.

Hey! We're BOTH right! That's because extremists are irrational and hate-filled people, no matter what ideology they claim. The lunatic fringe must be silenced if our nation is to survive. Moderates make up the vast majority of American voters. We need to take our country back from the wingnuts.

Cold Fusion: I'm not saying the extremists can't win primaries. I'm not saying they can't even win an occasion Congressional seat. I'm saying the radical extremists can't win national offices in general elections. They can't do it without moderates and independents buying into that fringe. That's why I believe Palin has just crossed the point of no return, regardless of whether you believe the shooting had anything to do with her targeting the Congresswoman for defeat. Would be national contenders just don't talk this way (and the ground is littered with those who didn't learn that lesson.)

To fill a $1 billion hole in its 2011 budget, Arizona slashed this year’s budget for mental health services by $36 million — a 37 percent cut. As a result, advocates say 3,800 people who do not qualify for Medicaid are at risk of losing services such as counseling and employment preparation. In addition, more than 12,000 adults and 2,000 children will no longer receive the name-brand medications they take to keep their illnesses in check. Other services such as supportive housing and transportation to doctor’s appointments also will be eliminated.

Arizona has been considered a progressive state because it provides the vast majority of mental health services through cost-effective outpatient community programs. By slashing these programs, experts say the state will force more people to use emergency rooms or end up in the criminal justice system, which will cost the state more.

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=499181

You can see where some of the problem falls. Just because people think by cutting out something they think won't effect them..... eventually do.

Loughner was an independant who didn't even vote in 2010. Obviously he didn't care about politics, he was just a deranged individual.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028120-503544.html

It has been said before and It Will be said again: America Needs A National Healthcare System as there exists in other "civilized" countries. With ALL of His RED FLAG Behavior ON RECORD, there would have been a Psychiatric follow up and this tragedy could have been Avoided. This kid comes from A Slovenly Alcoholic Mother and An Enabling Incompetent Father; A Lethal Formula for the disastrous rearing of A Young Male. He Had No Business Harming Those People as Loughner's mental disorder quietly advanced from Schizophrenic To Criminally Insane. Where were the necessary authorities?? Nowheres, because with a tragedy of this magnitude, all those authorities from police to prosecutor to judge to prison warden are all justifying the necessity of their job positions up and down the "Career Feeding Trough". What could have prevented this tragedy by a simple "Visit and Detain" by mental health authorities was blown into a horrible tragedy involving All Manner of county, state and federal employees demonstrating the need for their services as AGAIN The American "Criminal Justice System" proves to be More Profitable then a sorely needed American National HealthCare System. Priorities MUST Change IF America is to Survive.

Posted by:
The Grim Reaper 137 1:06 PM

When someone said something to Loughner that he did not like, his pal said:

"He would start yelling, 'No! You're wrong! You're stupid!"

This is what is said at most of the political debates now a days. So what is the big deal?

This should not be about assigning blame but about taking responsibility... BOTH SIDES.

To an unstable mind the Cross hairs and phrases like "Take the second Amendment Solution", "Get our Country back by whatever means available", "Where ballots wont work, bullets will", "Reload" etc. can be a justification of what has happened.

Nobody knows what went inside Jared's head and what effect or not this rhetoric had.

The only thing I know is that this kind of rhetoric is not "heated", this is the kind of rhetoric heard in Mussolini's Italy, Hitler's Germany, Franco's Spain, Castro's Cuba and Chavez's Venezuela. This is the kind of Rhetoric that lead to the genocides in Rwanda, Irak, Iran, Turkey, China, etc. It is the kind of rhetoric that lead to the persecution of Jews in Europe during the middle ages, and is the kind of rhetoric used by bin Laden and Co ti fire up their followers... THIS IS NOT THE KIND OF RHETORIC WE WANT TO HEAR IN THE USA.

There are two issues: (a) The shooter has his own guilt. (b) Regardless of whether or not any of the heated public voices influenced the shooter, this sad event can be a wake-up call to our society to tone down the rhetoric and devote ourselves to respectful civility that aims to understand differing opinions through exchanges of rational thinking. I think there ARE laws against inciting violence. If the notes in the shooter's home, or some of the pre-November election comments had been found directed at Palin when she was the VP candidate, or if the cross-hairs graphic had been posted by some U.S. Muslim organization hoping to influence the elections, don't we think that these would both have gotten the attention of the FBI and the U.S. public? Is it not common to apportion some blame for Jesus's death not just on the ruling Romans but also on the vociferous crowds (whether minority or majority, who knows?) of local Jews? If there is some fraternity hazing where the older "brothers" circle around a "pledge" yelling at him to 'rape her, rape her', is there not also some culpability in the "brothers" and not just the "pledge" who penetrated the violated woman?-- shouldn't we be outraged at those who would incite such sins? Granted, these last two examples of Jesus & the college woman are more direct incitement, but shouldn't we as a society do what we can to limit any incitements that might lead to violence? In the sad times of lynchings, if some persons in the crowd simply shouted repeatedly "Outrage! Evil!" (etc.) but never explicitly said "Hang him!", weren't they too partially responsible for the sin that ensued? What would it hurt Sarah Palin to come out and say "Let's tone down the rhetoric. Let's try to dialogue with others whose judgements differ from our own," or even, "Let's take a 1 year moratorium from inflammatory statements & exaggerations & guns at political rallies"? She could still turn around and defend her past tone & condemn the shooter if she felt it necessary.

From Yahho message board stock quote for JP Morgan

1-11-11
This is an amazing story. We now learn that Jared Lee Loughner's mother Amy Loughner is a member of the SAME Reform synagogue as Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords! That means that Amy's son, who lives with his Jewish parents, Amy and Randy Loughner, is ALSO a member of the same synagogue as his shooting victim, Rep. Giffords.
Why didn't we hear about this from our super-sleuth national media?
Instead, we hear that a 'WHITE MAN' is the shooter. We hear that 'ANTI-SEMITISM' is his motive. (Mass Mind Control anyone?)
But now...now...some FACTS are leaking out!
His best friend, Bryce Tierney, who got a "farewell" voice message the night before the shootings tells us that his friend is Jewish. He tells us that Jared Loughner put Mein Kampf down as "favorite reading" to irritate his Jewish mother, Amy.
The story and the coverup of the story gets wilder. The Loughners and the Giffords were members of the same Congregation Chaverim. On the Congregation Chaverim website we learn that this Reform synagogue that was founded in 1973 has 140 families. That's a very small group. The Rabbi, Stephanie Aaron surely knows every single family member of her congregation on a first name basis! That includes 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner.
So, it is IMPOSSIBLE that Rabbi Stephanie Aaron did not KNOW instantly upon learning that a Jared Lee Loughner had shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords that BOTH people were members of her small congregation!
But does Rabbi Aaron make ANY effort to inform the media, as she takes hundreds and hundreds of media calls from the mass media, of this fact?
Apparently not!

Let's see if this is confirmed by our super sleuth news

had-enough-470242

To fill a $1 billion hole in its 2011 budget, Arizona slashed this year’s budget for mental health services by $36 million — a 37 percent cut. As a result, advocates say 3,800 people who do not qualify for Medicaid are at risk of losing services such as counseling and employment preparation. In addition, more than 12,000 adults and 2,000 children will no longer receive the name-brand medications they take to keep their illnesses in check. Other services such as supportive housing and transportation to doctor’s appointments also will be eliminated.

Good for Arizona getting rid of some of it's welfare programs. Let the 12,000 adults either get generics or pay for their medications....you're medicine is not the responsibility of others to provide.

Also, seeing that this reduction in mental health doesn't occur until this year, you can't point your finger at that as a cause of this crime. Arizona just saved a wasted $36 million that didn't do anything to prevent this type of crime.

PhantomBeast

The scariest thing about your post is you may actually believe what you say. What does nationalized health insurance have to do with this crime? Do you know whether or not Loughner had insurance? Do you know if he sought treatment or didn't seek treatment based on that insurance?

Necessary authorities that should have diagnosed him and forced him into treatment? Hey, that's up to him and his family. I don't want the government deciding that I should have to go in for a physical...that isn't their job, it isn't their right and it definately is a violation of my freedom and my rights.

Priorities must change if America is to survive? Who's priorities? My priorities? I don't think so. My priority is to care for myself and my family first. To work hard and earn a living. If you think taking care of some social misfit is one of my priorities you have another thing coming.

The state is cutting $43 million from its current behavioral health budget of $105 million for mentally ill or developmentally disabled adults who are not on Medicaid or make more than $10,800 a year. That means starting July 1, impacted individuals could lose state aid for housing, adult day care, treatment services and other assistance.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/04/19/story1.html

This happened in 2010, and from my earlier post......... there will be more budget cuts for 2011.

Where you think these mentally ill will end up? Probably clogging up our ERs and causing crime.

Do you know how many politicians have used the exact same "rhetoric" TenAngryHamsters?

Who said: "I need to know who's ass to kick"?

Or: "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun"?

How about: "That governor down in Florida, Scott, should be SHOT"?

Here's a clue: It wasn't Palin.

In fact two of those were from our "civil and peaceful" president.

The list of political ads using that kind of language is ENDLESS!

People who try and lay the blame on Palin are just as deranged as Jared Loughner......Hamster

37 votes before it was "collapsed by the community".

I'll admit the last line was A TAD over the top, but if people convince themselves Palin is to blame, I don't put much stock in what they say.

It really is pathetic, yet people eat it up!

ASTOUNDING!

Obviously this is the current thread for delusional people. They continually attach blame for the actions of this psycho to conservatives in general and Palin in particular despite conclusions by law enforcement and psychiatrists that this individual acted out his own insane delusions.

There are certainly thousands of people wandering around in this country just as bonkers as this guy but overwhelmingly they are harmless except perhaps to themselves. As evidence of this, just read some of these posts and take notice of their rush to collapse any posts that expose them.

Joe-755363

Necessary authorities that should have diagnosed him and forced him into treatment? Hey, that's up to him and his family. I don't want the government deciding that I should have to go in for a physical...that isn't their job, it isn't their right and it definately is a violation of my freedom and my rights.

Actually the authorities can force someone into treatment. I dare you to tell to a cop that you are going to harm someone or yourself and see what happens. You will be first taken under custody and taken to the nearest county hospital. There you will be force to see the emergency doctor then the psychiatrist. And if show danger to yourself or to others..... be prepared to get strapped down the gurney. This been going on for years.

I sure want my tax money to help these mentally ill get their treatment instead of just kicking them to the curb. Sooner or later, these mentally ill will affect you someway or another. Either by higher insurance premiums (clogs up ERs), crime, waste police services, drugs, etc. You remind me of this one guy whos house burned down in a fire while the firefighters watched all because he didn't want to pay the yearly fees. It is always want want want but don't want to pay the bills that associate with it.

Obama and Ayers.

An actual terrorist.

I read in a previous article that Mr. Loughner seems to enjoy creating chaos. How's that working out for him do you think?

I sure want my tax money to help these mentally ill get their treatment instead of just kicking them to the curb. Sooner or later, these mentally ill will affect you someway or another. Either by higher insurance premiums (clogs up ERs), crime, waste police services, drugs, etc. You remind me of this one guy whos house burned down in a fire while the firefighters watched all because he didn't want to pay the yearly fees. It is always want want want but don't want to pay the bills that associate with it.

How can you even make that kind of accusation or assumption? I have no problem paying for my bills, my liabilities and my responsibilities. I do have a problem with someone telling me that I have to pay for theirs too.

Those that "want want want but don't pay the bills" is who you are asking me to support! They want medical care but don't want to pay the insurance, they don't want to be foreclosed on but don't want to pay the mortgage, they want to be paid but don't want to work. If the rest of society started taking the firefighters approach to the guy that didn't pay his bills we'd be in a lot better place. STOP entitling everyone to everything.

It seems like neither side, left or right, is thinking clearly at thiis point.

Amen, soazDan!

I don't get it. I'm no fan of Palin and I think the political rhetoric on both sides is hostile but there seems to be NO evidence that the deranged individual followed her or even visited her website of the said "crosshairs". I want Palin gone off the political landscape as much as anybody but I do think she is being thrown under a bus for this tragedy if the guy didn't have anything to do with her or the tea party.

You are wrong to say the parents are responsbile because they gave him money.

And I suppose that you don't give money to your children for an allowance or their expenses if they are at home?? I'm assuming that you have children.

@ Math... While your point 'a' is quite true, 'b' is not. The 2 in this instance are in no way related. This sad event rest squarely on how our Society handles/treats those who exhibit symptoms of mental illness. And the hate rhetoric we are now hearing is the hypocrisy of those who believe it to be right and true to allow the mentally ill to have their "right" to be mentally ill, (that persons cannot intervene on the behalf of the ill, only the court) but not to realize this incident is one of the possible consequences of this belief system. Treating the mentally ill in this fashion allows the increased possibility of tragedies like this to happen. Rhetoric has nothing to do with it. Every mental person has their own "trigger" that sends them over the end. The "assumed" trigger the left have been embarrassing themselves in this case is simply not true, yet they continue to spread THEIR misplaced HATE. They need to look to themselves, they are responsible for how the mentally ill are treated in this country. Guess they can't take responsibility for THEIR actions!

@Willowbrook... Since you return to the discussion of mental illness, it seems that you missed my second point: " (b) Regardless of whether or not any of the heated public voices influenced the shooter, this sad event can be a wake-up call to our society to tone down the rhetoric and devote ourselves to respectful civility that aims to understand differing opinions through exchanges of rational thinking." Allow me to emphasize my word "Regardless". This second point is not at all about mental illness; rather, it is about the state of our American society -- personally I am not satisfied with our general inability to dialogue around our differences in judgements & philosophies, and I guess that this general inability reduces our communities' & our nation's effectiveness at forging progress on many counts.
To respond to some of your points re mental illness: Yes, there are trade-offs between society's willingness to institutionalize those judged mentally ill, and the merits of such individuals remaining as members of society. Sometimes, in the past [& reports are still heard today], mental institutions abused the patients; so we must discern how quickly we should institutionalize someone if there is danger they will be abused -- of course, on the other hand, we need to consider whether such individuals present any dangers to their community. I don't know what you are suggesting when you write "[the left] are responsible for how the mentally ill are treated in this country [and they should] take responsibility for THEIR actions". First, we are all responsible for how the mentally ill are treated; some of us might promote differing legislations and/or bond measures, some of us might offer counsel to our neighbors, some of us might volunteer in schools, some of us might visit people who are institutionalized or who access soup kitchens or shelters [not that every needy person is mentally ill].
Lastly, I don't see where your vocabulary including "hate" & "hypocrisy" is helpful to dialogue; I think you could make your points just as well --perhaps even more strongly-- with sentences that are analytical rather than judgmental.

@ Math - I have been watching in disbelief and disappointment the HUGE Liberal attack against Sarah Palin, and to a lesser extent, Rush and other Conservatives, without due cause. It has gone on and on, even when the truth about this young man came out. I just heard a bit ago that Palin has had the highest number of death threats ever against her today. Do you think those threats are coming from fellow Conservatives? I think not. Do you think the Conservatives were blaming Liberal figures in equal measure to the attacks by the Liberals? No. Bottom line, if the Liberals would shut up unless they are going to repeat the truth, we all would be better off. For Liberals to be doing the attacking and then asking for "civility" can only be called hiprocracy, there is no other correct term.

Additionally, while you "regardless" connect these 2 events together, the fact is, they are not related. The "rhetoric" influencing Jared was a lie, and if I were a Liberal who had any common sense, I would be embarrassed by the way my fellow Liberals were behaving. The Congresswoman was civil to Jared when she didn't answer his question. That didn't make a difference to the insane person. Now, had what the Liberals had said about Palin been true and this guy had an altar to Palin in his back yard instead of a skull, then I would be 100% in agreement with you.

As far as the comment concerning the Left and the rights of the mentally ill. The left has had along standing tradition of supporting causes giving more rights groups like Illegals, the mentally ill, the mentally challenged, (do you realize how much paperwork it takes to have permission to administer birth control to a person living in a group home for mentally challenged adults? While I could care less if they have sex, is it right for them to get pregnant with a child they cannot care for? I could go on but I hope this makes my point clear. There have been those who didn't agree with these changes, but were never enough to make a difference. To complete the thought concerning responsibility. The Left has championed these causes, and then acts shocked and dismayed when it blows up in their face. Did they think by promoting these "rights" everything would become butterflies and rainbows? Well it doesn't, the more leeway that's given, the more opportunity for bad consequence to occur. But instead of realizing the freedom that has been given to this young man gave him the opportunity to kill, the Left seeks to blame others who don't share their view. Fact is, the young man is at fault, no one else. Why don't the Liberals say that?

I guess, all in all I do agree with your comment concerning exchanges of rational thinking. Unfortunately, I think events as of late show who is not using rational thinking, and it's not the Conservatives.

The last few days I have been seeing a lot of Loughner's writings that were on the internet that have come up in articles and on the radio. It suddenly struck me that in December we had someone posting on Newsvine that went by the name of "foundya1.4m". I tried to find some of his writings to compare again and found that he has been deleted from Newsvine. All of his postings have also been deleted from all threads leaving only the name. As I recall he mumbled the same things about the monetary systems and all the other things Loughner ranted about. His style of going back and forth with comparisons of sentences was identical. Does anyone else remember seeing this man's writings? I honestly believe it was him!! If not he definately has the same mental condition. Anyone remembering these writings let me know what you think.

EZHUNTER - I remember that name as well, and I agree with you.

willowbrook, did you read the writings? I swear I think it was him. Everything has been deleted so I can't compare. I saw articles on DEC. 16 & 17. Everyone was posting back to him telling him to please start taking his meds.

@Ryan - Ayers hasn't been an issue for a long, long time. Let it go.

EZHUNTER I remember some of what was written, it was disjointed in a fashion similar to what I've read in the last days. And you were right about folks telling him to take his meds. I know he didn't stick around long. It is now a bit creepy, in retrospect. I wonder if it all disappeared when the monitors figured it out this week. Got rid of it so it wouldn't become media material. Hmmm

Just what we need - more hate!

Haven't you learned from Sarah's mistakes? Calling the President a commie - really? Soon, when one Googles 'hate' or 'bigot' or 'extremist' the Tea Party will appear at the top of the list!

This is the hate filled rhetoric we are talking about - this has got to stop.

so why hasn't any of those other people who attened these schools done this before . you are a nut job yourself you need to have a check up .

Maybe we need to teach children that murder is wrong. Maybe we need to teach children to be kind to one another. My mother said they were taught to be kind when they were in school...she is in her eighties. Maybe we need to teach children to be respectful of everyone as everyone is important. Maybe this might help, maybe not tomorrow..but maybe, maybe in the future.

wheatfield2: Absolutely EXCELLENT post!

Who would have guessed?

Bill "the MURDERING BOMBER buddy of Obama" Ayers influenced him?

Ironically, the anger this deranged guy expressed fits perfectly within Ayers type of script for Anarchy.

Isn't it "interesting" how the "lame stream media" missed this?

peace :-)

These are the facts the mainstream media is hiding from the liberals.

Have these whackjobs convinced these people that even if Obama was a communist, he could get the whole government in this country changed to communism?

They're more afraid of him than I thought.

wheatfield2, even taking your article at face value, your argument is...what? Fifteen years ago, Obama had a connection to a program that was (to quote your article) "a network of schools that have been restructured to create a more personalized learning environment where students often have the same teachers and fellow students from grade to grade."

Gasp! Surely a scandal of epic proportions! Impeach! Impeach!

Apparently, what bothers you is that Ayers also was involved in that program and that the shooter went to a school that used the program. And so you tried to spin this to try to make it sound like Obama was somehow connected to the shooter and, by implication, must have advocated his actions.

You see....this is EXACTLY the kind of irresponsible nonsense I was referring to in my post above. It's not enough for you to simply disagree with the president's policies and tell us why you think they aren't good. No....you want to make him sound like some dangerous inhuman monster that pals around with the shooter.

Is your position so weak that you must exploit the most tenuous of connections to dehumanize the other side, rather than explaining why conservative policies are right?

Oh goodness. First, Tucson is not a large metro area, although it has been growing. Tucson does not have a large terrorist threat like other areas. Just recently heard how some radical groups hail from other deserts, and when they come here are not moving to desert areas. Tucson regular everyday prob at most is bank robberies and illegal immigration/drug trafficking.

Get the facts- I think part of the point people are trying to make, is that you can't teach a mentally disturbed or -psychotic- person to be nice to others. I'm sure his parents, and the school, and TV and every social influence throughout his life, taught him that murder was wrong, and to be kind to others. The problem is not that no one taught him, it is that he had a mental imbalance that caused him to be violent. He needed professional help, and he never got it.

Palin's sad about...irresponsible statements???

Wow. I can think of at least eighteen better reasons for sadness, Ms. Palin. Your tender sensibilities are irrelevant here.

I guess there are tens of thousands of others in Illinois where William Ayers has been involved in education with Obama and others in educating the youth of America . I guess you better watch out huh. Also Williams has been involved in education with numerous Colleges and Universities throughout the midwest where he is a respected teacher and advocate for better learning for the youth of America. So you should do some more research before you spout your garbage.

Hey if you don't like what's going on with this country , vote and that doesn't satisfy you . You can always follow Candidate Engel of Nevada and others and look to those 2nd admendment remedies as they stated last election , Huh. Saying that the school has any connection would be just as stupid.

Also you need to read some of the socialist teachings , you would be surprised what it is. Communist is not what it's about but you probably got it all figured out and can't understand the basic principles the difference of the two.

• @ wheatfield, the Media isn't hiding this from the Liberals, the Liberal's self-created "blinders" stop them from seeing the big picture. They only see what fits their limited mind set. Hard to fix that.

wheatfield2

So what? It sounds like a GREAT program to better educate the youth of our society. What EXACTELY do you find objectional about this teaching style?

These are the facts the mainstream media is hiding from the liberals.

But I thought Fox was the most watched news station. Doesn't that make THEM the mainstream media?

I agree. The left is playing the blame game as usual. According to them, there is no such thing as personal responsiblity. Its not the shooters fault, Sarah did it. But when the shoe is on the other foot, like the Muslim shooter at the base, we are told, by our President, not to jump to conclusions. Same old double standard from the left. Your responses or opinions are not needed or wanted. The truth is the truth!

Obama

Ayers

An actual Terrorist.

Obama took money raised by a confessed terrorist.

Sheriff Dupnik has already tried to place blame for this shooting on Rush, Beck and Palin and the Arizona Governor. A better question would be, why didn't the sheriff post a deputy or two at the rally just for safety's sake??

Because it cost funds to post a deputy, and Republicans are all about cutting expenses and "smaller government" including public safety spending, remember?

The Democratic sheriff can only spend what the Republican county/state government will provide the funds for his department.

Nice try but one of the things that the Republicans actually want to INCREASE spending on is law enforement as well as border control in Arizona. What they want to DECREASE are jobs by city union wages and pensions.

But nice try there.

Why are all the 'smaller government' haters now complaining about the lack of government security at an event that shouldn't need it?

ten hamsters, damn the left wing haters are really in an uproar. Could it be because they themselves where doing the same things that they are trying to vilify the right for? Please look at the left wing when you refer to haters.

Look at all the left wing followers that are listening to that Sheriff. He is the one that should be taking responsibility for the incident, so he is trying to blame others to divert attention away from him. He is also trying make the shooter look like a victim and EXCUSE his actions! He should be trying to find ways to lock up criminals, not EXCUSE them!

Jared Loughner is a product of Sheriff Dupnik's office

http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/

"""""Jared Loughner, pronounced by the Sheriff as Lock-ner, saying it was the Polish pronunciation. Of course he meant Scott or Irish but that isn't the point. The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.
Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff's Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner's family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared's obvious mental instability.

Every victim of his threats previously must also be wondering if this tragedy could have been prevented if they had been more aggressive in pursuing charges against Mr. Loughner. Perhaps with a felony conviction he would never have been able to lawfully by the Glock 9mm Model 19 that he used to strike down the lives of six people and decimate 14 more.

This was not an act of politics. This was an act of a mentally disturbed young man hell bent on getting his 15 minutes of infamy. The Pima County Sheriff's Department was aware of his violent nature and they failed to act appropriately. This tragedy leads right back to Sherriff Dupnik and all the spin in the world is not going to change that fact.""""""

Gary-

Americans know who's doing the majority of the hating. 'Commie', 'socialist takeover', 'Kenyan', etc.? You can disagree with Obama's policies, but you can't disagree that he is our duly elected President at least until 2012. Claiming that he 'hates America' is stupid and inflammatory - just the type of hate the nut-bags respond to best!

And claims with hatful vitriol that Palin and the tea party are responsible are also the type inflammatory remarks that some "nutbag" would respond to.

Otter, that seems like a reasonable suggestion.

I'd like to add to your list of ideas....if these nutjobs are disruptive like this kid loughner was, there should be some form of mandatory Baker act so he can be evaluated. If they find he is a danger to others or there is a determination that he is a paranoid schizophrenic they should give him meds to level out, and also make his stay mandatory without any chance of getting out until his condition improves.

One more thing...I find it funny that this sheriff has been in law enforcement for 50 years, suddenly he is a expert mental health professional that knows that politicial rhetoric was the root cause for this kid to go off the deep end.

People should see this for what it is and stop polticizing this horrible tradgedy. People died and all anyone can do is point fingers based on their political agenda. Stop the madness people. EVOLVE!!!

The way T baggers show up at town hall meetings they need metal detectors thanks to repubs and dick armey

perry gov of texas is tackling property tax issue ,which means the middle class will be hit again with higher taxes to pay for the richs tax abatements of 27 billion...really taking the country back with the same ole sheeiiit

Did anyone ever read about the Jukes and the Kallikaks?

What amuses me about Palin is that, although she claims to be so "American", did her husband or son-in/out-in law, ever do any military time? Hmmmmm; What a world! However, as we blame Palin et al for this whole tragic episode of American history, lest we naught forget that in order to improve things from hereon, we MUST look at the real causes of this kind of activity-and it goes deeper than political rhetoric. Do we have the courage to do that, or are we, as earlier implied, a nation of sheep?

RIch

I don't hate the woman but she is consumed by her SELF belief she can be president and will walk over anyone to get there. The Republican Party has something on her and the preferable boot will go in before any election campaign. It does not need a democrat to move a hair, or should I say cross–hair. Her carefully choreographed presidential type speech will only make her president of the local Alaskan gun club.

No Palin, no dumb down politics in America.

All of the back-peddling and grand defensive posturing by those that used metaphors for violence (against our candidates and elected officials) speaks volumes. Thou doth protest too much. A reasonable person must admit that these metaphors may have contributed, to some extent, to this cowardly and horrific act of violence. A reasonable person might unequivocally deny that was his or her intent while apologizing if these metaphors were even the smallest contributing factor. A reasonable person could then promise to never use such rhetoric again and solicit all to join in that promise.

I believe such actions( by both sides that have ever used such tactics) would do much to end this poisonous debate and allow us to pay proper tribute to the fallen.

lemonray...Arizona already has laws on the books to deal with unstable people.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/arizonas_mental_health_law_mig.php

I been saying since this happened that the sheriff has been deliberately trying to deflect attention away from him and his department...

It was just reported that a Sheriffs Deputy pulled him over the morning of the shooting for running a red light....

Correction...he was stopped by some kind of Park Ranger....not a Sheriff Deputy

wheatfield2..(#3.6) ..With each passing hour more information is coming out about how much contact the Sheriffs Department had with Jared Loughner. I suspect there is a cover-up under construction. The Arizona AG needs to step in quickly.

@CommonSense101
Unequivocally agree.

Check out the comments. There is way more "hate" directed at Palin. Calling Obama a Socialist isn't hate speech.

If you asked him questions about his beliefs, you would find he has much in common with Socialists.

oh yea and what is all this Big Store with a "Target" as their logo...........Wow must be lots of "irresponsibly" there.

Get a life.

Trying to blame this on Sara Palin is like saying that a Spoon made Rosie O'Donnell Fat.

Did you not see the map in 2004 with the Bullseyes on it for the Democrats? Let's get back to blaming the person who shot these people and not look for a political angle. This is a tragedy and our thoughts and prayers should go to the victims and their families.

san anton - the "Target" logo isn't actually on anything "targeting" it. It's always on a plain background. Don't try to defend Palin. I'm sure her targets had nothing to do with it, but of course a celeb-wannabe politician is going to get crap for something like this. Deal.

Actually having a sherrif mouth off and try to lay blame (before the investigation is over - with no evidence and actually contrary leftist material) shows a predisposition against the defendent by aw enforcement.

So sorry it actually IS harmful.

Its also very sad that the left is in soooo much denial that, even if the evidence points torwards their spectrum they are STILL screaming Palin. Its .. almost like the killer on some sort of sociapathic path.

What the left could actually accomplish is pointing out how the Brady 5 day waiting period shoud be re-instituted ! But nooooo, its Palin's fault !?!

Amen!... Palin states finger pointing was "irresponsible". Placing gun site cross hairs on the Senator's district and telling them to "reload" when the Senator was winning the election and didn't retire go beyond 'Irresponsible". Palin sounds scared of finger pointing. Wildlife in her crosshairs play nice they don't "talk" back or shoot back. Doesn't she get the concept if can see Russia from her back door...they can see her from theirs....they won't be responding to her backyard viewing statements with finger pointing....maybe she needs to engage a brian before she opens her mouth...but I don't think they rent brians.

It's interesteing that nut-baggers are picking on Target stores. Do you know that many Target signs have bullet holes from nut-jobs taking shots at them? What does this tell you?

jabber_wolf

What the left could actually accomplish is pointing out how the Brady 5 day waiting period shoud be re-instituted !

Right - Im sure you hillbilly's are receptive to gun more control. You'd buy right into it.

jabber_wolf

The public statements by the sheriff is puzzling in the least. You are correct about the bias this shows and with all the law enforcement experience, I cannot figure out why they havent shut this guy up in a closet and ordered him not to speak about the case.

While frustrating for the press, it is basic law enforcement/court operations that you dont speculate publicly.

Whatupwitdat...I agree...Palin stood there and uttered the word "Reload". What does reload mean? How about Mitch McConnell's comment about getting rid of President Obama? Some shaven-headed Aryan Nation idiot hears that and to an idiot like that, it's an invitation.

Denial, denial, denial.....Lately, that's all you get from Republicans. They've grown obese from feasting at the table of denial. Not taking accountability for their actions much less their words isn't a surprise.

Palin's sad about...irresponsible statements???

There are at least eighteen better reasons for sadness, Ms. Palin. Your tender sensibilities are irrelevant here.

Hamster,

Yet another rediculous statement...you can't be serious can you??? I've been a Target shopper for a long time and in quite a few different regions, and NEVER, have I seen a bullet hole in their sign...anywhere. I suppose the Target stores you frequent are inner-city locations?

The public statements by the sheriff is puzzling in the least. You are correct about the bias this shows and with all the law enforcement experience, I cannot figure out why they havent shut this guy up in a closet and ordered him not to speak about the case.

Palin's sad about...irresponsible statements

Now for a new idea being tossed in that can explain or answer the above two posts. I do not believe that Gifford was the target. I believe the target was the Republican Federal Judge. this explains the sheriffs comments and the irresponsible statements, Palin scrubbing the map away, and the resignation of the GOPers after the shooting. The last one. Miller, is afraid the the TPers would think he wasn't conservative enough and his wife wondered, out loud. if the TPers might shoot at their house.

Where I live (not in AZ), as long as the individual is of age, no matter where he lives or who pays his bills, he can refuse treatment at any time, unless it's deemed the person is a physical threat to himself or others, and even then can only be admitted psychologically for 48 hours. Talking to oneself, while disturbing, is not physically threatening. Being mentally ill is not license for restricting one's Constitutional rights, no matter what may be in the best interest for the patient and public at large.

Sharon M, his mental state was unstable long before he turned of age, or so it seems according to the people giving their experiences with him when he was younger. As far as I know, as long as you are under 18 years of age, your parents make the decision, so I stand with what I have written.

NaughtyCheryl...If there is one stigmatizing illness people seem to fear being diagnosed with, it's mental illness. Tell someone, anyone, they are mentally ill and it's instant denial. Yet, most of us can recognize the seriously disturbed in an instant. Getting the mentally ill person to admit it is next to impossible. As an example, many alcoholics in the last stages of that disease are already mentally unstable. It's why they drink to excess in the first place. There's no shame in admitting mental illness. When the public stops making a joke of mental illness, the stigma goes away and more people can assess their own mental stability without shame or fear.

ewent, what you say is true, hence the wondering on my part of whether this was an image problem for the parents, and that was the reason they did not get him evaluated when he digressed in sociable skills.

What's further puzzling is this shrug of the shoulders by Arizonans. They have the ONLY law in the country that allows anyone to ask for mental evaluation for someone they consider a danger. not sure why the community college at least didn't do that, once they got him off campus, even if the parents couldn't bring themselves to do it.

Words do have consequences.

The Pen is mightier than the Sword.

Just read the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, it gave the FF the "right" to start the REVOLUTION!

For the religious people out here who are still not convinced....

IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD!

Language is what separates Humans from Animals.

WORDS DO MATTER and they evoke CONSEQUENCES, whether NEGATIVE or POSITIVE.....Just suck it up Sarah you are a SOCIOPATH and dim witted at that!

Agreed. I really have no use for this woman.

Over the past few years civility has been a fading attribute of Americans. Most blogs, whatever the subject, usually denegrate into viral partisan politics. This animosity creates an environment where unstable people like this shooter get driven over the edge and create mayhem.

That was "Deep" Cathee!

"Just suck it up Sarah you are a SOCIOPATH and dim witted at that!"

How is that not hate? You say words have consequences, but type that? Do you see some hypocrisy here?

Maybe because it is towards Sarah Palin, it doesn't count correct?

If words DO matter, what about evidence and lack thereof. Yet finger pointing with actual evidence that points in the opposite direction - those words, though proven otherwise, are OK?

So basically words of dishonestly and irresponsibility are ok by YOU... got it.

You do know that's why most dont like the left and democrats. It's not that they dont have some good ideas, but the vile hipocrisy that they cant see themselves spewing.

Gabby pointed the finger at Palin months before she and others were shot. Yes I agree Jared is responsible for this horror but Palin cannot get away from the fact that Gabby Gifford told Sarah Palin; that what she does will have consequences, now Gabby is fighting for her life.

Sarah Palin's rhetoric back fired on her big time, Words do matter well it did to the shooter anyhow.

Words have the power to heal and the power to harm, but people like Sarah hasn't a clue...

DKWog

I did NOT say she should be put into the "CROSS HAIRS" of anyone or thing.

I was not being HATEFUL, just OBSERVANT and making a MENTAL HEALTH EVALUATION.

Sarah is a SOCIOPATH, and she needs help. The last thing she needs are FOLLOWERS unless they are SOCIOPATHS also.

Mommy Grizzly has now turned in a "scared victimized rabbit".

Well if she hasn't turn the tragedy in Arizona into all about her....PIGS CAN FLY!

She still has yet to give "SINCERE CONDOLENCES" to the true VICTIMS and their families!

This proves that Sarah couldn't lead herself out of a wet paper bag. She blew her chance to show America she can recognize a mistake and do something about it.

I agree. Although she's very troubled by the "finger-pointing" now, that's pretty much all she's done since she helped John McCain lose the '08 election. The carefully crafted speech she read in the video talks about condemning violence and "shaking hands and getting back to work" following a political disagreement, but she has done none of that herself. Instead, she quit her job as governor and immediately started blaming and criticizing others, and encouraging her supporters to "reload". She hasn't shaken hands with anyone who didn't buy her book or who disagreed with her. Certainly she has no direct responsibility for the event in Tucson, but she also has done nothing to create an atmosphere of tolerance, acceptance, and peace. Her blatant hypocrisy is on display again.

SHE didn't lose McCains election...she was deliberatley targeted for a smear campaign. This entire hate smear began when Soros spent millions of dollars for liberal journalists to blight the right's candidates. Sarah had done NOTHING, when the rumors, hate mail and hate articles started flowing from the media.

>Sarah Palin had death threats and deliberate consipiracy smears from the ilk of liberal journolists

New Hampshire Dem Candidate Wishes Palin was Killed in Alaska Plane Crash

http://yesbuthowever.com/palin-death-wish-8500002/
Liberal 'Reporters' Plot Smears On 'Journolist'

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/liberal-%E2%80%98reporters%E2%80%99-plot-smears-on-%E2%80%98journolist%E2%80%99
"""The Daily Caller broke the story recently. The "Journolist" included upwards of 400 reporters and other liberal elitists who schemed online to protect Obama from negative stories about Jeremiah Wright; plotted to smear Sarah Palin as soon as she was named McCain's Vice President; discussed the joys of watching Rush Limbaugh die; and discussing what could be done to shut down Fox News by having the FCC yank its broadcast license. """

JournoListers Conspired To Destroy Sarah Palin Day McCain Picked Her

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/07/22/journolisters-conspired-destroy-sarah-palin-day-mccain-picked-her

I never learned anything from people telling me what I wanted to hear!

Please! Everyone!! STOP BLAMING SARAH PALIN! She did not cause this. She did not make this punk shoot all of those people. Between the liberals and the conservatives, I don't know who is worse.

This is a terrible tragedy. There were probably thousands of signs that could have been picked up on. But, in the end, this kid bought the gun, went down to the meeting, and shot these people. Noone told him to. Noone's rhetoric made him do this. He is an adult who knows right from wrong. He had more ammunition and was going to kill more people if he could.

Stop blaming everyone else but this guy!

Prove how Soros targeted Palin. Then, while you are at it, prove how Hillary Clinton wasn't targeted by the righties when she announced she would run for the presidency.

The reality is that people, often those too impressionable and emotionally insecure, are in fact influenced by those they consider stars. Palin considers herself a public figure. She had to know that what she says as an adult and public figure someone would be influenced by it. Sorry, this is one she can't wiggle, wiggle, boom boom out of.

No one is blaming Palin for the shooting. They're blaming Palin for her irresponsible words and the vitriol against those who don't agree with her. Surely she could at least own up to that and join other civilized grownups in the call for a bit of responsibility over those words. No more targeted crosshairs over elected officials who disagree with you...is that really that radical a concept??

Ask yourself..

If a neighbor put a crosshair on your city and listed your name, how would you feel?

Would you feel the same way if some deranged nut broke into your home and killed a family member. Would you say there is no linkage?

There may be no demonstrable linkage to the killing with the crosshairs but id bet you would think so.....

.... said "Biloxipat" as he tosses another name-calling grenade.

Gee BILOXIPAT why don't you go tell that to the parents of that little 9 year old girl or how about to Gabby Giffford who's ighting for her life. Even after Gabby warned that air head Palin that there would be consquences. Yeah that's what I thought. Spin it it all you want Palin is simply pilau. (Flith)

BiloxiPat...If it was President Obama who stood in front of a map with Republican targets and responded with the word "Reload", you'd be all over that one in a heartbeat. Sickening example of lack of accountability for one's actions and speech. We have Free speech. We also have gun nutted unstable people. It's YOUR responsibility to monitor the inflammatory speech that can send someone over the edge.

Biloxi? As in Mississippi?

Sarah's base has spoken.

We know Sawah didn;t pull the trigger, what we're looking for Pat is even just a tiny little acknowledgment that 2 years of non stop BS like...

"obabma's a muslim"
"obama's a socialist"
"death panels"
"Obama is destroying the country on purpose"
"Obama obama obama"
"reload"
"we came unarmed this time"
"if ballots don't work, bullets will"

- might maybe kinda sorta could have an impact on crazy people?

You know, own up to even a morsel of responsibility for her part in creating this hostile political climate.

But no, what we get is, it's the liberal's fault...standard republican response - swerve and deny.

So I'm sure this is going to fall under the same category as don't blame bush for crashing the economy, right? No way no how could a republican be responsible for anything that goes wrong.

You people need to buy a mirror, and actually check the reflection to finally see the other part of the problem in this country...

Sawah is done as a leader - right or not this is gonna stick like glue - she could have turned this into something positive, but rather, all she wants to do is get this stink off her clothes.

Obama is one of the most vitriotic men of recent times.

Pay particular attention to the porton of the video beginning 2:40

Jared Loughner In his Own Words, The Truth About Rep. Giffords Shooter, Background, Bio

http://www.politicalchips.org/video/jared-loughner-in-his-own?xg_source=activity

wheatfield....President Obama isn't the least vitriolic so much as having to be always on the defensive....and we both know why don't we? President Obama is one of the best presidents this country has seen because he is willing to make personal sacrifices of his own life for the people of his country. That's how I judge the worth of a president.

His job is made ten times harder because of closet racists who are too cowardly to face up to their own bigotry. Oh sure, they deny it hotly. But, their words, just like Palin's speak louder than their actions. If there is more vitriol now, it may be because white supremacists in this country are fired up because of WHO is in the White House....not WHY he's there.

wheatfield2

Obama is one of the most vitriotic men of recent times.

As opposed to Dick Cheney's famous "Go f--- yourself" directed at Patrick Leahy on the Senate floor?

Or this one: Just before a campaign speech in Illinois, Mr Bush said to his running mate Dick Cheney: "There's Adam Clymer, major league a--hole from the New York Times."

No vitriol there, eh?

I'm a moderate conservative and I could not agree more with your statement. Well said.

I'm a moderate progressive. Violence makes big bucks in this country. That's what so warped about our society. We give the right to others to earn billions from violent video games without proper monitoring. We're Americans. If we can't come to terms with how violence is tearing at the fabric of our country, we cannot profess to believe in rights.

The only thing standing between a nut and buying a gun or ammo is a low paid unskilled sales associate at WalMart. What is up with that?

Sure, there was the background check, but, it was interpreted by a cashier at WalMart. The first one refused to sell him ammo. The second one sold it to him. There is something seriously wrong with this scenario.

WalMart insists that Jared left of his own accord after becoming discouraged at buying the ammo. Still, it is obvious that the cashier had some influence over whether or not a person could buy ammo easily.

I don't understand the process of applying for a gun, but I do see that there is a weak link in this process if any manner of discretion is left up to the clerk at a store.

Apparently, not having a police record is not the only criteria that should prevent gun ownership. However, until a deranged person commits a crime, who is to know?

There are lots of deranged persons passing your way each day. You see them all the time, and sometimes you recognize them as such. There are many deeply troubled and desperate people.

Jared certainly looks the part.

The animosity in our public political rhetoric needs to be curtailed. We are deeply divided and we are increasingly uncivil towards one another. Our civil fabric is full of holes. While Pallin's remarks may not be the direct cause of this event, they have fueled the nastiness that creates the atmosphere for this hatred. The conservative stance is fueled by ignorance, hatred and fear, mostly.

It is a shame that there is a large part of the population that are unenlightened, ignorant and full of fear, but they have good reason to be in fear. And, you only need to scratch the surface to see the true depth of ignorance and lack of a rounded world view in our country.

Our societal infrastructure and our world is a deep stream of change that we have little control over. Fear breeds hatred. And, we are seeing it. It is real. We should ALL be afraid. These people are not wrong about that.

It is this mass of ignorant and fearful people who take up the banner of the conservative movement and carry it forward like a crusade. That ignorance and fear can motivate large populations is nothing new in world history. Most mass movements in history are not motivated by logic, intelligence, learning, or thoughtful actions. Most are fueled and carried on by ignorance and fear.

We are up to our elbows in alligators here!

However, liberal or conservative, this guy is a deranged individual. HIs politics matter more to those who are evaluating his motives for political gain than they do to him. His motives are probably deeply obscure in his own mind, never to be understood by anyone other than him.

His actions cause us, though, to take a look at ourselves. That should be enough to have us quaking in our shoes.

If there is one thing old Sam Walton desired more than a rich man's heaven, it was control of the entire country. It is the reason I NEVER buy anything from Walmart. To me, Walmart is Sam Walton's version of one rung above slavery. It's the reason Walmart wants to be the only store in any town and sees to it their money buys zoning and planning boards influence that puts thousands of small businesses out of jobs. After all, who but Walmart can offer people jobs that they'd never take unless it was the ONLY job left?

I think that the Sheriff was just way too close to the people who were shot, to make a statment. He said over and over that Gabby was a friend. I think he was as horrified, sad and mad as most of us were and spoke what was in his heart instead of what he should have said or done.

He is also in pain, try and understand that.

ScottyUSA...You want a public figure to walk into your kid's school classroom and stand in front of a map that uses politicians as targets and then tell them to "Reload"...that word is inflammatory. It's the only reason Palin used it.

You are correct ScottyUSA, he is a nut case.Yet when he saw that target that Palin drew on the Congresslady his case opened up. What is Palin? She is not any elected person to anything. She is an evil despicable person. She has no business out there spewing hate to the nth. degree, or any degree.

Where is the proof that he frequented Palin's website? In 2007, Loughner was targeting Giffords and corresponding with her. He was also a registered democrat at the time. He proudly displayed communist reading material on his social networks. At that time, the Daily Kos began using the "bullseye" terms for Giffords. It would seem that at his age and his political preferences he would be a follower of the Daily Kos. And, the Kos is a radical right hating site. Giffords was targeted for her centrist leaning views.

Daily Kos 'Bull's-eyed' Giffords for Defeat

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Daily-Kos-Bullseyed-Giffords/2011/01/10/id/382350?s=al&promo_code=B6E7-1

"""progressive activist sites targeted Giffords for electoral defeat in 2008 in much the same way as Palin's "cross-hairs" map did in 2010 — with Daily Kos founder and publisher Markos Moulitsas even using the term "bull's-eye.""""

"Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week." According to Moulitsas, "This vote certainly puts a bull-s-eye on their district."'''''

wheatfield...It isn't necessary to even go to Palin's website. Her newsclips are finely honed so that they appear where ever their is a viewing audience. That means newspapers, magazines, the internet, the social networks, etc.

Well Frank Furman, it seems like your one of the "AIR HEADS" that would want an "AIR HEAD" for a "LEADER"!!!!

Frank - with Palin parading herself the way she does on Twitter and her own reality TV show - I don't see her as a President figure at all. Sorry.

Honestly Frank I think everyone is just tired of hearing her spout nonsense! Who gives a rats a$$ what her 2 cents might be. Didnt she say she was done with politics? And to think there are still people out there that will support such nonsense. She needs to just keep her yap shut and work on her show and family. Besides she is making more $$ now not being in politics.

Quick question though why would you vote for her as president after she just quit being Governor? She is a quitter plain and simple, so why would you vote for a quitter?

I am an Independant and Sarah Palin doesn't scare me her stupidity does!

........ and what good work is that Frank ? only an idiot would use a scoped bullseye to target her opponents then claim how she's SO sorry ....... left or right , her rhetoric influenced the nut who killed innocent people. Thats where its at Frank ....... and thats who you want to govern the United States of America ?

we pull her down as we would pull down jeffrey dommer, had we known what he was capible of

Sarah's pulled herself down. Nobody has done a better job of proving her unfit to lead anything than she has. Everybody knows it whether they will admit it or not.

The only good work I see her doing is making the liberals heads explode at the very mention of her name. It is always good for a laugh. She will never have the chance to become pres and does not deserve it. The press has shreaded her from day one and has zero chance of it. But as I said, she is good for a laugh.

Let me guess...you haven't seen the Democrats using the same bulls eyes, have you? Try looking in your own house before blaming your neighbors. Democrats even had Republican areas listed as "behind enemy lines". How about putting the responsibility on the shooter?

Spare me, let me guess. You can't come up with one Democratic politician, or liberal media rep, who's called for loaded weapons against political opponents either, can you? People ARE blaming the shooter - he's been arrested and will most likely face federal and state charges.

The conversation is about the call to arms that appeals to weak minds.

Weapons have no place in political discourse. Do you really not get that?

Frank Furman...Most people are scared by irresponsible people. You aren't scared, I imagine, of North Korea's nuclear threats? Which, by the way, The Democrats should be scared to death of an idiot woman who stated publicly that North Korea is our "ally". Scary that one.

frank, she'd scare anyone with a brain to think for themselves. now the lemmings, I'm not sure, are you allowed to think???!!

Hey, hey Carol, she needs no help in being pulled dow. She is doing a fantastic job all by herself. The only way she scares anyone is my her insane drive to destroy people that don't agree with her. I don't agree with her and I am not afraid of her. I think she should be in an insane ward somewhere. She has earned the title of"The most hated woman in the Nation".

Bob Hall...Like you, I am unafraid of disagreeing with what I know to be wrong for the common good. The only thing that scares me about Palin is what she says about countries like North Korea, calling them our "ally". You can only imagine the confusion that could cause if our true foreign allies didn't know she was such a ditz.

Actually,

Nothing Sarah Palin said influenced this guy.He leans to the LEFT and was mad at rep.Giffords because she did not vote for Nancy Pelosi for the minoroty leader of the house. That is what came out his mouth.(he said she is dead to me) so learn to read all media outlets, then you can get more than the side of the story they are trying to sway you to.

The political divide starts in the mirror people.

Thank you

Sarah did a good job of targeting herself for public ridicule!

Why is it that your finger isn't pointing at the person who committed this crime?

Reminds me of the elementary school children I used to work with, who, when caught making "bad" choices, found everyone else to blame. What you say and what you do belong to you! Not the guy standing on the otherside of the playground!!!

Daniel...Because she's a right wing extremist who loves the bally hoo of contention enough to provoke others?

And vice versa huh? Too many finger points and blame throwers on this site anymore. Why don't you take a good look in the mirror and blame yourselves for the rhetoric as many here make it plain as day has not been toned down but are being fanned by the flames of you political hatred on both sides. Giffords was a true middle of the road politician not like many of you who lean too far left and right. Some people will never change and you know who you are.

It still amazes me how the liberals have forgotten that all of this garbage talk was started by them right after George Bush won his second election. It was pretty easy for them to point fingers the other way after this happened. Now it looks like it was one of their own liberal nut jobs who did the shooting. Keep the blame where it belongs.

How about we focus on the actual person who did the crime. Sarah Palin and her retoric is 1st amendment speech. Jared's shooting someone isn't

And why is it Sarah, that finger pointing is irresponsible unless you're doing it?

And why is it Sarah, that finger pointing is irresponsible unless you're doing it?

because she is afraid that she caused it. She had the map with the cross hairs on Tucson and there was a shooting incident that left a Republican Federal Judge dead. You betcha she scrubbed that map out of existence. All she meant to do was alarm the populace by menacing it with hobgoblins, but it backfired on her.

Are you people kidding me?? This is a joke, right? The Left made her a target from day one, shooting every possible suggestion from her Daughter's baby was actually her's, to she's not a real person, but made up by Republicans. She HAS been a target for over 3 years, but now a few comments in response to the Left's accusations and you all say, she's got it comin. Well, the Bible says, thour shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor and from your writings, you're all guilty of it.

He only shot her. He didn't kill her!!!

[Note: for the dumb-as-a-bag-of-rocks right wingnuts, I am being sarcastic.]

You are absolutely right. Fox Propaganda is the trainning camp for them. Pull up Fox opinion and read their comments. They have the same mindset as that guy has.

If you hate Palin so much, why are you on her website?

ZipZag....And the right made Hillary Clinton a target and then went for the jugular with President Obama. You want to deny that one too? What right wingers don't get is that not everyone is in league with their need to charge ahead, ram rod over others and demand their way is the only way. That Bush "My way or the highway" BS is over. Either work with the party elected by majority vote or shut the hell up if you can't be cooperative and productive to this country.

Um ZipZag the whole point of a political campaign is to get on the other party for everything. Of course they were going to get on Palins unwed daughter having a baby - the Republicans cooked up Obama stories like Muslim talk and him not being a citizen....that's how politics work!

PGH...No....The ONLY point of a political campaign is to surpass all others with policies that are intended to make this country better...not worse. I don't ever vote for a politician who rags on his opposition because I know for certain it's an excuse not to have to openly state what the intended policies will be.

The problem with politics these days is dog eat dog attitudes. Campaigns are not about WHO is elected....but WHY they should be elected. That and only that matters. If you elect a candidate who has a proven record of failure, you get what you elected because going in you know his/her policies.

Interesting how so many people on this site are posting hate filled fingerpointing comments just like the shooter did just prior to killing those people.

Possibly some of you are being monitored by law enforcement as you seem to be running a paralell profile by your rambling comments on the net. Some of the comments on this site are sicker than Loughner's posted comments.

Yes, police could see you as the next potential shooter!

Hiheels...Most of the right wing extremists are people who lack education. They are highly impressionable and ready to jump at the chance for 60 seconds of fame. A clinical psychologist would have a field day with an analysis of that.

It's the reason the right wing extremists insist upon surveying the country for someone, anyone they can find whom they feel is beneath them. A sadder commentary on judgementalism I can't imagine.

ewent - I know what they're SUPPOSED to mean, it's just not what they mean anymore.

Hiheels

Right minded people will stand beside Sarah.

News for you, Heels: You are not remotely qualified to define right-minded. Who do you think you are?

Then it could be said that when you use the language of hate and false accusations as you do Elithian, you are guilty of inciting violence. Only an idiot would say someone else is responsible, other than the person who actually did these heinous acts.

Why are we even having a political discussion about this horrible act by a deranged person?

ZipZag...The whole reason politicians are elected is because their words influence. Stop the backtracking. Palin is only making herself appear the unaccountable mouthpiece she is because she hasn't the guts to manup to the words she used. That's a huge sign of hypocrisy no matter how she calls it.

Well said, Hiheels!

Hiheels....It wasn't the map....It was the word "Reload". That you find it necessary to call others insulting names doesn't make you appear more intelligent. What does the word "Reload" mean to you? Particularly when it comes from a woman who shoots animals and carries a loaded weapon around her state?

You are grabbing at straws to avoid Palin's irresponsible words. Yours are just as irresponsible. Grow up for Pete's sake.

You Know it is funny how you all react to this sh**. Sara is not the on that shot anyone the things she says yes the are to get incite voting! All you dumbas* cattle should be able to use what brain you have and do some damn thinking of your own. What about when our WONDERFUL President use that same redirect and call for bombs to kill one of the Jonice Brothers! That's OK though. See all of you that think what people say could incite violence. Than what the fu** are you doing posting if that is the case don't you care that someone will take what you are saying and try to do violance to this woman. See I know you think that is ok because you feel she is wrong we have a little thing called the first amendment and it give me, you and everyone else the right to say whatever the @!$%# i want to say. It is a right.

ewent, reload means exactly what it means. That said, Sarah Palin had nothing to do with the person who shot all those people. The left/right/middle didn't. This "man" decided to implement his own system of freedom of expression based on what he thought. Not the right/left/middle or even media telling him what to do. His questions revolved around "how can you you govern if words have no meaning" As a nation of individuals, we need to stop seeing how any event so horrific can be laid at the doorstep of a polictical party, and resolve to stop the event from happening again. All the discussion of "she pulled all her targets.... and what does the word 'reload' mean" are just bread and circus for the masses.

What I believe in. God, and family. What my political views are moderate (ie depending on the specific subject they could be conservative /liberal /neither) People should expect the best and try to nurture those things, people should also prepare for the worst and try hard to safeguard against those. Respect yourself, respect others.

This person who decided to take a crowd of people out had no respect for anyone, including himself. His rantings indicate that he thought he was above other people (socially awkward is nice to say, but doesn't really fit the bill).

Eliminating Sarah Palin's right to speech or even opinion isn't a solution to the problem of this guy killing a bunch of people. Nor is condemning each other on a web post explaining how the "president" did this or that. Sarah nor the President had contact with this person. By extension the Congresswoman did, because they had a known correspondence (which seems she sent him a "thanks for attending" form letter).

Could gun control have help this situation, probably/maybe/ unlikely.

Gun control works great on those following the law. Killing a crowd of people, doesn't indicate he was concerned about the law. If no guns were available he would have had to choose something else, like a big airplane into a building.

If everyone in the crowd had a gun would that have solved the problem. Probably not. People don't necessarily do what they need in crisis. Sometimes a crisis is a breaking point which could be equally bad.

The person who committed this act chose this act. A gun was the tool a great choice for his action, but in the end committing the action could have taken place without the gun. His motivations, actions, were his own.

Please get your facts straight before rambling on with your attack on "the left".

The gun was purchased by the shooter in late November 2010. Is it a coincidence this was SHORTLY AFTER Giffords "dodged Sarah's bullet"???

Jackie: If you had taken the time to read the article, you would realize that what you are saying is not true! This has nothing to do with political party, it has to do with politicians encouraging violence thru their speech and words! I do not care if they are R or D or even a TP, this type of hate filled campaigning must stop! Is there no way in your mind to express an opinion that does not call for 2nd amendment remedies or reload or placing cross hairs on your opponents photo? Disagreement is natural, and is to be encouraged, however violent disagreement should not be condoned!

Hey John of Indiana, two sentences is not "rambling". So he got his facts wrong, BLAMING Sarah, or the Right for this insane act of violence is not helpful, nor the Right thing to do. As the article well states, only the Shooter is responsible for his own actions! Trying to make political "hay" out of this is shameful!

Zigzag, she had a choice to go home to Alaska and shut-up because that would have been the grown-up thing to do, or , as she chose, run your mouth and stay in the public light. Now that the light is shining on her, she wants nothing to do with it. Home baking cookies suits this woman about as well as any other thing she's ever tried. Please, for everyone's sake, ex-Gov., be quiet and stay in Alaska, quietly becoming less self-important everyday. Wonder what the leaders of the GOP are really thinking about their self crowned princess???

jackie...The problem is monolithic thinking. No one has to be "right" or "left" in this country. It simply isn't necessary. I keep posting that ideology is dangerous. Now, for all time, this is proving to be true. I don't give a fat rat's patoot about ideology. What's most important to me is that the people of this country honor the Constitution and insurances provided by the Bill of Rights. I care about the policies of the elected. Not their ideologies.

I'm probably a lot older than you. I never remember any time in history when ideology was more divisive than it has become in the last 2 decades. It may seem hard for the extremists to believe but there have always been conservatives who worked side by side with liberals, progressives and others. Why? The good of the country not the bank account was the reason. Until we stop blathering about ideology and focus more on the needs of our country, the potential for greater harm will remain.

Too bad he wasnt a Palin follower and more a crazed conspiracy lefty than a ring wing nut. But nice to TRY and make an association because you hate her.

Maybe making associations to people of murders that arent related is IRRESPONSIBLE?!

Hey Jabber Wolf, I think Gabrielle Giffords put it much more eloquently than I could, when she slammed Sarah Palin for putting her in her gun cross hairs and expressed how this not so veiled threat of violence made her fear for her personal safety...

"We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and ... for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action..."

- Gabrielle Giffords

Jabber wolf seriously??? You are going to label this kid a left? Why the f*ck is your dumb ass even labeling this kid at all? Hello, look at who he went after...a Democrat. Look who had the targets - a Republican. He may or may not have been persuaded by Palin's lame target board - but he's definitely not a defined Left. So don't TRY to make an association because you hate them.

So, based on your explanation, is Target (retail chain) inviting shootouts at their stores? Because if you search store locations on their website, they put targets on each of their store locations. You know, targets are what people shoot at with guns, therefore they're endangering the public and their employees.

The fact is, Loughner had run-ins with the congresswoman as far back as 2007, well before Palin was a so-called "hatemongerer". Palin is wrong to say finger pointing is "irresponsible"; it's more like "disgusting". Even on this website, people were trying to spin this tragedy for political gain before the victims' bodies grew cold. Not a single accuser has been able to show any evidence that Loughner even once listened to any of the conservative talking-heads, but when you're on the left, you don't need evidence, you just have to keep repeating the same rhetoric until everyone starts to believe it.

Jabber is regurgitating a Fox sound bite from a high school classmate that called him a liberal back then. The classmate then went on to say there had been no contact with Loughner since 2007.

A fact Fox fans never mention, nor the fact he was a "independent" on his voter registration card just like the tea baggers pretend to be.

PGH good points. The only ones claiming Jared Loughner is "left wing" is Fox News, not surprisingly. But when one examines his delusional anti-government views (I thought liberals supposedly favored "big government" and he did target a liberal democrat) , we find that his conspiratorial anti-government views are very consistent with right wing ideology. For example: at one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to “currency that’s not backed by gold or silver.” The idea that silver and gold are the only “constitutional” money is widespread in the antigovernment “Patriot” movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It’s linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money — what they refer to with a sneer as “Federal Reserve notes” — is not lawful.

At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in “mind control on the people by controlling grammar.” That’s not the kind of idea that’s very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it’s pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to “enslave” Americans and offers up his truly weird “Truth-language” as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right.

hat tip to Mark Potok / Southern Poverty Law Center

I'll give up politics if I ever have to run agains Sarah Palin "dirty irresponsible politics games". Now shes acting like she bears no responsability when in fact she created a hostile environment that's killing this country. She should stay out of politics. Her heart is becoming as cold as Alaska.

l33tpr0digy- Are you seriously comparing a retail store's ad campaign with a politician with presidential aspirations putting gun cross hairs on her political opponents and exhorting her followers to "reload" with this nation's history of political violence? I won't even get into the other violent rhetoric coming from the tea baggers like "2nd Amendment remedies" and the like. I think Gabrielle Gifford's clearly felt her personal safety was being threatened and unfortunately she was proven correct. What is even more laughable about Palin and her defenders, is when the story broke, she actually claimed that the gun crosshairs on her website were really "geological surveyors symbols". Ya right. This doesn't even pass a basic laugh test. The fact that she would concoct such a bazaar and laughable excuse speaks volumes.

l33tpr0digy

So, based on your explanation, is Target (retail chain) inviting shootouts at their stores? Because if you search store locations on their website, they put targets on each of their store locations. You know, targets are what people shoot at with guns, therefore they're endangering the public and their employees.

Sorry, but this analogy is too stupid for rebuttal.

The Keating 5, the Democrat Party used this tactic in the 2004 election against Republicans FIRST. Where was your outrage then? Why weren't you out spoken against the Left's freedom of speach that has repeated the violence ridden rhetoric of Obama over the past two years when speaking about Republicans in Congress?

ZipZag - Your statement is laughable, there is no comparison to the garbage and threats of violence you get from the right wing. Hate speech and threats of violence are their stock and trade. It is calculated to intimidate political opposition, which is fascism 101. All one has to do is tune in to right wing wacko radio to prove my point. They are like little babies who think that if they waggle their guns around and bellyache really loudly, it will somehow lend credibility to their delusional world view. They are obsessed with anti-government rhetoric and violent gun metaphors. It goes back a long way and they got in trouble for it during the Oklahoma City bombing as well, and it looks like history is repeating itself, so there is a clear pattern here.

So it is "irrespondsible" for Palin to use such a map, but not for the democrats in 2004 to use two different maps, one with "targets" on states that have representatives replaced and another with arrows point at districts in each state that have represnatives that need to be replaced with some of their biggest targets pictures and general description under the map. Both political sides can point the finger at irrespondsible behavior on polititcians. However when we divert the attention from where real respondsibility lies, "the shooter".

I also love how everyone with a commansence view on these subjects are collapsed by the left wing community, grow up people there is room for civil debate.

The department Store "Target" isn't necessarily relative to a "gun" target. In fact, it more represents what most people see and understand as a target you'd see in archery. How many people are killed by bows and arrows as opposed to being targets of some gun nut's ruthless irresponsible need to carry a weapon in public.

Guns like everything else have a purpose. There is no need to carry a gun on a crowded street because the danger of shooting even in defense means involving other innocent people. Anyone who lives in an inner city will attest to that one.

Agreed, some common sense controls are needed to keep the weapons out of the hands of the criminals and crazies. I'd also support a ban against carring weapons to political rallies and within 1000' of our elected officials. Our constitution guarantees "The right of the people to assemble peacably", but carrying guns to ploitical rallies does not constitute "peacably".

A waiting period won't of mattered he bought this gun last fall, any waiting period would of been over long ago.

John, Indiana...I so agree with you. We have to protect our politicians or there won't be any government. The point most people are missing is that this kid is just the tip of the looming iceberg. There are anti-government anarchists who want democracy ended.

Furthermore, with most political rallies, police are usually not more than a few yards away and there's no need for anyone to be armed.

This guy is crazy. Do you really think he would have obeyed the law, if there were one, against having a gun at a political rally?

ExSysOP: I agree with your comment and would like to add that I also agree with Sarah that finger pointing is not helpful or appropriate unless the finger is pointed at the person who did these shootings.....................

However, what would be helpful is if Sarah would stop inflaming political rhetoric and inciting people with cryptic load and reload comments and using "surveyor's marks" in her political comments (as her aide described the graphic that looked exactly like a gunsite aimed at various national targets) and instead tried to debate with facts.............but that is a bit much to ask I guess from her, Rush and all of the others who invent history.

Well said - good analogy!

It is irresponsible to start politicizing this tragedy. Need you forget that this MAN was anything but "SANE", and if you look at this man he was anything buy a conservative or a liberal for that matter he was a deranged crazy who needed help. As far as pointing out distrcits with a rifle scope as many of you are saying Palin did, well I have news for you there where News Outlets that were doing the same thing with Republican leaning districts. Leave it to Liberals to take a tragedy and spin it to their advantage, typical Liberals. This type of back and fourth banter has been going on since the beginning of time. Why is it that we are in a society where no one can be responsible for their own actions there is always a finger to be blame..... I am sick of this everyone is repsonsible for their own actions..... PERIOD. People should have seen the warning signs and gotten this man HELP, but that doesn't mean he isn't responsible for his own actions he clearly knew what he was doing he even said so, he meticulously calculated this attack.

ANother reason I hate Liberals they want to use this attack as a means to try and derail Free Speech and re-enact the Fairness Doctrine limited the free speech of Talk Radio.

And TeaBag, leave it to Conservatives-of which I am assuming you are-to deflect criticism. Face it, simpy enough, sane or not, his actions were likely perpetuated by an increased exposure to hate rhetoric against the 'dangerous Liberals,' or the 'out of touch Conservatives,' etc. To say the incendiary talk radio, anti-Liberal angst, 'if ballots won't work, bullets will' mentality did NOT have a possible influence on this man's actions only serve to show ignorance to the fact that a person, sane or rational, can and is influenced by the media, whether it's left or right-leaning.

And be honest, if he instead went and shot a Republican or TeaParty Congressperson, the GOP would be calling for pretty much the same things.

Hate the Liberals all you want-I'm a moderate and therefore hold ideals of both parties and try to see the positives of both sides. I personally don't see the derailing of free speech as a result of this issue, but I do see where all sides seriously need to determine exactly how to send messages to the people going forward. A little tact is a good thing.

OMG! Exsisop, are you truly saying that you believe a girl who claims rape, is always lieing? Do you have any legitimate children? Do you have a Wife or Daughter that you would say such things as an analogy to this tragety? Why is it you are ready to give this guy a pass for killing 6 people, but instead target a politician responding to untrue accusations? Shame on you!@

ZipZag, you are misinterpreting ExSysOP's words. Your comments are an insult to intelligent discussion. There has been hate in politics for the past 20 years. Why do they call an election a FIGHT? I think it is what most Americans are disgusted with. How do they expect the constituents to behave sanely, when the insanity starts at the top?

LOL "surveyor's marks"

un-huh ok

I find it rather hilarious that suddenly we have a large group of expert monday morning Mental Health professionals on the Vine that can definitively point to the root cause of this kid going off the deep end...
A large number of you should get the noble peace prize for your amazing assessment of what ails society in general.

Zipzag, Possibly he is comparing it because it happens, and is many times true. I don't think he's giving this nutcase a pass, but offering up a plausible explaination as to why this nutjob didn't need any encouragement. So for ignoring reality, shame on you.

ProudWestVirginia...Thank you. I agree with you. The level of sanity of the shooter will be determined professionally by experts who can then refer their findings to the courts. However, it doesn't change the reality of those who died or were injured. Their lives are forever changed by a split second irrational decision.

ExSysOp......... come on now dude ! if your going to keep writing comments on palin--- at least get your grammer straightened out !

bare (right to bare arms,bare naked)

bear (an animal)

steven

I'm not a Palin fan, but you're wrong. The acts of this sicko have nothing to do with her or other politicians.

That is simply giving too much credit.

rusobr2

ExSysOp......... come on now dude ! if your going to keep writing comments on palin--- at least get your grammer straightened out !

bare (right to bare arms,bare naked)

bear (an animal)

steven

The word "bear" is correct in that context. To "bear" arms is to carry them.

And while you're at it, check your own post. The word is "grammar".

Glass houses.

Got Dictionary?

then why did democrats do the same thing in 2008? But I guess it's ok when you are a democrat just not when you are a republican right?

tlb 1974...facts.....rest of the story??? what prominent democrat had a cross hairs map of their republican opponents??? Just the random playground taunt of they did it so we can doesn't work here...specifics please!

As someone mentioned in an earlier comment, if she doesn't think she is guilty of anything why is the map gone?

I don't hate the woman but she is consumed by her SELF belief she can be president and will walk over anyone to get there. The Republican Party has something on her and the preferable boot will go in before any election campaign. It does not need a democrat to move a hair, or should I say cross–hair. Her carefully choreographed presidential type speech will only make her president of the local Alaskan gun club.

No Palin, no dumb down politics in America.

BELOW is the website that started it all. And as the shooter was still registered as a democrat in 2008, I would assume he would frequent the liberal sites. And it is also the time frame when Loughner started contacting Giffords!!

The liberal media is trying to divert attention away from their liberal website that started the "bullseye" quotes and targeted Gifford in 2008, so they are blaming Palin.

Daily Kos 'Bull's-eyed' Giffords for Defeat

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Daily-Kos-Bullseyed-Giffords/2011/01/10/id/382350?s=al&promo_code=B6E7-1

Liberals may be making the wild stretch of blaming Sarah Palin for Saturday's shooting of Arizona Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, but one of the Internet's most popular progressive activist sites targeted Giffords for electoral defeat in 2008 in much the same way as Palin's "cross-hairs" map did in 2010 — with Daily Kos founder and publisher Markos Moulitsas even using the term "bull's-eye."

On the day of the shooting, the Hillbuzz.org website reproduced screen grabs of Moulitsas' posting, noting that "Daily Kos targeted Gabrielle Giffords with a 'bulls eye' back in June of 2008."

You got that right mainebound. She's the pot calling the kettle. But, it's not really surprising; this isn't the first time she's done it.

Where are those crosshairs now Miss Palin?

In a followup article, Palin says it's the fault of the media now... Really? Again, anyone but her. It is a right of all of us to express ourselves whether others like it or not. But this moron is either drinking too much Kool-Aid or believing the scripts she is written. Putting crosshairs on any elected official's location is WRONG. We are not responsible if people do stupid/horrible things, but we don't push the already mentally unstable over the edge with a map.

She said this shooter was a reigstered Democrat in 2008, I think it was. And?? this means what?? If he were a republican it would be OK? I don't think, IMO, for one second this woman thinks she could ever get elected President, but she is just in love with herself in the public eye, so keeps us all going. The old guard republicans, and there are many, would not support her and it's not because she is a woman... she is an embarassment...

This isn't about her views, political affiliation, etc. It's about her being stupid for putting that crosshairs on the map of Arizona, as well as other places. A totally different icon would have been doable to show location without inflaming an already unstable person who hates the government

The media is anything but liberal. Check out who the biggest media moguls are. At least three are admitted right wing ultra conservatives. And, their ownership is as close to media monopoly as it can get without violating US laws on monopolies.

Mainebound - The shooter was a registered Independent.

Why are you so willing to accept that the Democrats have done nothing to incite hostility? Did you not see the Democratic Leadership Committee Heartland Strategy Map, published in Dec 2004? That map had targets on states the Democrats wanted to take back from Bush. Bullseye targets. And that was only one of two Democrat maps with targets.

Candy Crowley on CNN Sunday morning kept asking reporters for more "bullet points" on the story, which was a bit untimely and insensitive. However, certain terminlogy is mainstream.

Furthermore, you all assume this deranged individual thinks logically. Not so according to psychiatrists. The deranged person thinks in more simple terms, they are not apt to jump to conclusion and link invisible dots together as mentally healthy people do.

Totally agree mainbound.Registered independant or not,the shooter repeated all the crap the so called tea partiers have been saying about government.I'm not a liberal but one must be totally in denial or very dishonest to say he was not influenced by all that political rhetoric.Some times I wonder if some people really care about this country.

PGH. I was noting what an earlier article had said about the shooter, that he was a registered Democrat in 2008. I personally don't care if he was a registered Easter Bunny.

AZ Granny. I personally never even hinted at the fact that Dems were innocent of any sort of bad behavior. We arent talking about that, we're talking about the current Palin situation. Assuming the Dems did do what you said, and I am assuming they did based on your info, does that mean it was OK for the Reps to do likewise in this fashion? Two wrongs, making a right, etc.

Maybe, just maybe, the whole issue would be a moot point had Palin said nothing other than she felt great sadness at what happened, and left it at that, taking down the crosshairs on the map and keeping both feet on the ground instead of one in her mouth... that foot must be getting waterlogged

.

And what about Obama's vitriotic spew througout his reign?

Jared Loughner In his Own Words, The Truth About Rep. Giffords Shooter, Background, Bio

http://www.politicalchips.org/video/jared-loughner-in-his-own?xg_source=activity

@ was a jailer:

I agree with your statement. Healthy debate is missing from our society. It seems as though many are stuck in the childish finger pointing game. Many of our leaders seem to like it that way. Divided we fall.

How is anyone responsible besides the individual that planned and carried out this act?

Because words hurt, we learn this as children. Or at least most do. This constant push for violence and hate is a form of bullying. Caribou Barbie and her False Opinion gang are the biggest gang on the playground. Let this day be the day she decides to just shut-up and shut off the limelight. If she's truly upset about this tragedy, this is the best way to show it.

Both sides have been stoking the fires the past few years. Maybe instead of trying to figure out who started it, both sides need to agree to cool it and be more civil.

As for this young man, he was obviously mentally ill. Neither liberals or conservatives are responsible for his drug use, getting removed from school because he was perceived as a threat, etc. Just like the mentally ill man who shot Reagan did it because of mental illness, not politics. I suspect Giffords was his target because she was easily available!

EAE...and will continue to do so unless Americans refocus back to issues of this country. Never let a politican zig zag from the questions you ask. When they don't answer your question directly, let them know you are aware that they either don't know the answer or that they don't want to answer. Simple as that. We don't fault our politicians for what they don't know. We fault them for what they do know but refuse to stand on the courage of their convictions as responses to questions.

mike-2707737,

You democrats have always promoted violence against anyone who disagrees with you. I have no sympathy for Giffords nor anything that happens to any democrat

Democrate Paul Kanjorski said Rick Scott should be shot.

Former Rep. Paul Kanjorski, a Democratic Pennsylvania congressman for more than a quarter century, told the Scranton Times Tribune’s editorial board less than two weeks before Election Day that Rick Scott — the GOP candidate for Florida governor who eventually was elected — should be shot.

As I said - Both sides need to cool it down!!!!! I see all through these posts Democrats blaming Republicans and Republicans blaming Democrats. It's like a playground fight where both kids are claiming the other one started it. Time to grow up and act like civilized adults.

As to this young man, I really don't think political rhetoric was the cause. Had Pima not expelled him, this discussion might easily have been about a shooting in that college. Had there not been a political meeting so close to his home, who knows but what he might have chosen some other target? If his target was strickly political, then why shoot all those other people, including a small child and so many elderly?

And had he been given jail time and had it put on his record when he was caught with drug stuff, instead of put into some kind of rehab program, he wouldn't have passed the background check to buy the gun.

You are right... But why did they not tell that this man did not watch tv news or the radio... I heard his friend tell them that but they cut it out ????

whoops...broke the link, here it is:

http://neithercorp.us/npress/2011/01/the-gifford-shooting-changes-nothing/

I did read it. It is very interesting. In fact, I like the website, so I have put it in my favorites list, so I can return later for more viewing of it's contents. As to the writing on the Gifford shooting, I have two things to write. One is that it lists him as being a leftist, and that it was a total mistake of the media to put forth that he was more to the right. He was just mentally crazy. However, it is understandable, and not a purposeful maligning of the right when the media did it because his Facebook account had listed as his interests the Tea Party and Sarah Palin. The made a mistake by not investigating it further perhaps to see if thier were more indications of him being on the right. Secondly, the artical lists the fact that the writer would have heard talk non stop at the water cooler 20 years ago and that he heard nothing this morning on the shooting issue due to the fact that we are more numb today. I disagree. The writer perhaps fails to take notice of the fact that the internet is a common way we communicate, sometimes more often there than with a person in person. Twenty years ago, the internet was not highly used for discussions. Perhaps the water cooler has become less common as the site for debate, and more common for just getting water and getting back to one's computer desk to work and keep the job one has at this time.

Ahh, so sorry for the typos and misspelled words like article and there, not to mention the grammer. I was typing really fast and did not edit before posting. My bad.

purposeful maligning of the right when the media did it because his Facebook account had listed as his interests the Tea Party and Sarah Palin. The made a mistake.

Please be careful about repeating this as truth. There were many fake FB accounts set up and one of them was the one you mentioned above. His authentic original account had no mention of this. Many bogus accounts were set up. His original had no mention of Sarah Palin

Jared Loughner: The Fake Facebook Accounts

http://www.anorak.co.uk/270160/technology/jared-loughner-the-fake-facebook-accounts.html

It can still be found on other sites, though.

Meanwhile, another since-deleted Facebook profile – again in the name of "Jared Laughner" rather than "Loughner" – listed as his "likes" "Sara Palin" [sic] and "Tea Party Patriots". There was also reportedly a third bogus profile, in which he supposedly enthused over Fox News""""".

Thanks wheatfield2. I did not know this. Apparently, I saw the wrong writing.