I agree, the families are going through alot right now. I hope all victims have a full recovery.

The worst part of this thread is that people are more interested in the Political @!$%#storm in the second comment than anything else. WTF, People?

We should be talking about how the political motivations of our times when we have individuals who KILL OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS. I don't care if you like your Congressman/woman or not. They represent you in the government. They were voted for by your neighbors.

They won, get over it.

Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the victims and thier familys.Agree or disagree with her politics,or anyone elses political views,this is not the way to solve any problems or show dissent.As for all the 'us and them' posters,stupid mistakes,statements,and ideas have shown up on BOTH sides of the aisle,but this is not a way to respond to them. This guy should be punished PERMANENTLY,....and show an example to our children and the rest of the world,that there ARE repercussions for doing something like this.Kids are growing up thinking that 'kill' is something you do all the time in a video game,and by hitting 'replay', everythings alright. As a soldier,after hearing a couple of kids at the mall off the cuff comment about'look how many I killed' on thier hand held video game,it scared the hell out of me.They don't know about the reality of it all.............US.Army Disabled Veteran.

He is a psychotic killer who should be given the needle! He rambled about communism- and smoked pot! Sounds like a liberal to me! I have yet to meet a Republican or a Tea Party member that is Communist! Stop blaming groups and blame the individual (s) that is responsible for this crime! It's called individual responsibility!

Stop blaming groups? What did you just do. The spewing of hate and ideas like 'reload' and putting crosshairs over areas and or people is what feeds people like this. Anyone, including Palin, who has been preaching this trash is in part responsible if this guy heard or saw any of it. What has this country turned into. What is the percent you have met verses how many there are? You really shouldn't place opinions above facts.

Moveright, that's because Communism is on the Extreme-Liberal side of the political spectrum. It is extremist Liberalism, just like Facism is extremist Conservativism.

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a Saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, the call me a Communist." Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara, Brazilian Archbishop.

i don't agree....individual responsibility fueled by Republican groups and their bigoted persuasions.

Amen to this...Republican or Democrat...Let's all get a grip and think big picture...God Bless...

Moveright, yes, clearly this nutty, jobless, pot-smoking loser who lived with his parents needed some serious intervention of the mental health kind, seemingly years ago. Where were his parents? When these days even the Army won't take a seemingly able-bodied 22-year-old male, then there's a problem w/ him. Classmates and professors obviously knew he was someone to be avoided. That's also strong stuff. Over and over the alarms are sounded over these guys. How many anti-social men, like this 'loner,' who've slipped a cog but think they're so omnipotent as to kill lots of people (often targeting women & kids), with or without a semi-automatic gun, might have been stopped if the U.S. had a better, broader & inclusive national health policy. Such as they were, this country did have not that long ago mental health facilities for so many men and boys like Loughner who become delusional predators. Whatever degree to which Rep. Giffords recovers, let this incident be the beginning of a serious discussion in this country about providing MENTAL health services again.

Please, lets all take a breath, then resume the crazy political cluster@!$%# of hate on the 2nd comment, because this is section is reserved for people who are truely sad about this and want to change our political atmosphere, with decussion, understanding, and the overall goal of helping everybody lead a happier life.

"The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it occurring in Arizona. "

I defer to the sheriff on the ground there. It was most likely politically motivated. Most "liberals" don't carry or use guns. Use your own judgment.

The guy is clearly some kind of lunatic, but the "vitriol" and threat of actual violence is almost exclusively coming from the right. "Don't retreat; reload." Targets slapped on legislative districts online. "Mama Grizzlies". Offices vandalized. Legislators physically threatened after a vote. Calling for "revolution". "If elections don't work, guns will." Arch-conservatives have created the atmosphere we currently live with - or die with - including widespread support for the use of guns to deal with problems.

Need I say more.

@Moveright,

1: The psychotic "liberal" you speak of, not only considered "The Communist Manifesto" to be his favorite book, but also Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" (an ideology that could only be described as fascist and more conservative than Marx' flavor of totalitarianism).

2: His friends as well as he himself describes him as hating ALL political parties, both on the left and the right.

3: He is MENTALLY ILL. On his Youtube videos, he ranted about the current government and I quote, "using the inherent ramifications of implying mind control to destroy grammar". For someone to not only rant (incoherently by the way) about "the ramifications of implied government mind control", his choice of literature (which by the way, were both ideologically opposed to each other) is most likely not indicative of clear thinking.

4: After all of the evidence of political bigotry and social irresponsibility on the behalf of Palin et al, the only thing you can say for yourself is "he must be a liberal...only they can be crazy" [sic]. Well, obviously, you did not take anything worthwhile away from this experience. Here's a hint: incendiary speech towards people (that includes name-calling) based on their political ideology will indubitably incite violence among the less stable people.

This man is the perfect example of the consequences of these actions: he is not necessarily a "liberal" or a "conservative" in the logical sense of the words, he represents how the power of influential people will affect the mindsets of others, whether they be sane or not.

I think that the less you say ...the better. The very fact that you state most leberals don't carry guns, is NOT a fact, and misleading. The statement is assinine! People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

This is nothing new.

Atlanta, GA July 1999: A stockmarket day trader goes on a day-long shooting rampage, killing 12 people including his wife and two children before taking his own life.

Fort Worth, TX September 1999: A gunman opens fire at a prayer service, killing six people then himself.

Washington, D.C. October 2002: A series of sniper-style shootings, some carried out from the boot of a car, claims 10 lives, mostly in the Washington, D.C. area. A semi-automatic assault rifle was used.

Chicago, IL August 2003: A laid-off worker shoots and kills six former co-workers. Semi-automatic pistol was used. The shooter had a long criminal record, which included weapons offences.

Birchwood, WI November 2004: A hunter opens fire with an assault rifle, killing six hunters and wounding two.

Brookfield, WI March 2005: A man fires 22 rounds during a church service, killing seven people.

Nickel Mines, PA October 2006: A truck driver armed with two rifles, a semi-automatic handgun and 600 rounds of ammunition, kills five schoolgirls execution-style in an Amish schoolhouse, and seriously wounds six others before shooting himself.

Blacksburg, VA April 2007: A student shoots 47 people at Virginia Tech, killing 32 before he commits suicide, in the deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.

Omaha, NE December 2007: Nine people are killed and five others injured after a 20-year-old shooter armed with a military-style assault rifle attacks shoppers in a mall.

Carnation, WA December 2007: A woman and her boyfriend shoot and kill six members of her family, including two children, ages three and six, on Christmas Eve, using large-caliber pistols.

Chicago, IL February 2008: Six women are restrained and shot at a suburban clothing store. Five women die. Gunman gets away.

DeKalb, IL February 2008: Five students are killed and 16 wounded when a gunman opens fire at a Northern Illinois University lecture hall before turning gun on himself.

Alger, WA September 2008: A mentally ill man, who had been released from jail a month earlier, shoots eight people, killing six.

Covina, CA December 2008: A man dressed as Santa Claus opens fire at a family Christmas party in his ex-wife’s home and then sets fire to the house. Nine people are killed in the home. The gunman later kills himself.

Geneva County and Coffee County, AL March 2009: In a shooting spree that tears through several towns, a 28-year-old out-of-work man kills 10 people, including his mother and a toddler.

They are many many more. Why is there no mention of there political affiliations? yesterday I logged in and seen people right here on news vine calling for the death of groups of people. In all most every mass attack/murders the people gave a warning just like those yesterday and no one reported it. So I did what was right and immediately reported what I read here to the FBI. I hope others did the same. Pay attn: If you hear it, Report it.

6 people dead so far, but not the politician, and I pray she doesn't. Where do these nuts come from??

Some people are saying this was a deranged man who just happened to have pictures of Sarah Palin on his MySpace page and list among his interests "The Tea Party". This had nothing to do with his action of going to a Democratic Political Event and shooting everyone around the Congresswoman is what they imply.

Just because he was deranged doesn't mean right wing hate and violence rhetoric had no part in this. Who do you think will be most influenced by the Sarah Palins and Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaugh's into an insane act of violence, the sane and reasonable among the people who follow them or the deranged?

This was a disaster waiting to happen IMHO.

and

Why is there no mention of there political affiliations?

In your list of mass murders, none were done at a political event with the victims people in politics. And it is "their", not "there"

Thoughts and prayers are for those of you who've got little better to do than to make believe these ....things matter. Those thoughts and prayers make YOU feel better and do little for the injured and even less for the dead.

The time for you to 'do something' has long past. There's little left to do now beyond watching inevidible scramble and spin from Hannity, Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter, ad nausea, ad infinitum.

Ain't life grand ;(

This guy was a Follower of the "Conscious Dream" Crowd a Left wing Liberal belief .. a Druggie. a man that had been in trouble with the law, Sounds alot more to me he is a left wing Zealot.. a young man in his early 20s. wich again suggests he is more likely to be a Liberal/democrat then a republican. he hates god. another reason it pts to him being a liberal..

The nuts are already there they are just pushed into action but the hate mongers like Beck and Palin.

This kid's you tube rants were full of language from the far right extreme. His face book page had two pictures both of Sarah Palin.

The Congress woman has been under constant attack by the far right for over a year. Her Campaign offices have been attacked, she has received pounds of threatening mail and numerous life threatening phone calls.

Sarah Palin had a rifle scope Target posted over the Congresswoman district. Beck has called her everything from a terrorist sympathizer to a baby killer. This sick kid just finally acted on all of this vitriol.

The right is out of control. To act as if the actions of mainstream political voices such as Palin, Beck, Limbaugh and O'Reilly let alone the vitriol coming straight out of the mouths of Republican leaders has had no effect on the mood is asinine.

Go look at the Numerous threads around the net are essentially justifying this because she was a "LIBERAL". It is Horrifying and just plain UN-AMERICAN!!!

a man that had been in trouble with the law. Sounds alot more to me he is a left wing Zealot.

I guess "sounds like" is proof for people on the right. Me, the FACT he went to a Democratic political event and started killing Democratic politicians and supporters is a little more persuasive. But in spite of his murdering people because they are Democrats, you find a way to twist it into him being a Liberal. UNBELIEVABLE!

But I am sure you are used to living in a "No Fact Zone".

Yea . Bruce. The Congresswoman is a Former Republican. She was for increasing Troops on the Border. She was a Gun Owner and in support of the 2nd Amendment and a Backer of the NRA She was Seen Reading the constitution on the Floor of the House along with Republicans She thinks it Was wrong for the Current Administration to Sue the State of Arizona . Instead of doing their Job and Protecting the Border... All things you Liberals Hate..

Especially actually Reading the Constitution on the House Floor. Nothing irritates Liberals more then that

I don't understand how Sara Palin could get away with putting gun sights on elected officials. If your average citizen did this they would be put in jail. I hope this congresswomans husband can find a way to sue the crap out of that woman until she has to live off her nut group supporters. Or is in a shed eating moose jerky for the rest of her life. Without insurance like the rest of us down here.

I'm a flaming liberal "Steve" and I love the US Constitution! How does that fit into you paradigm? Do you understand liberalism at all?

Mr Williams someone going to a democrat event and shooting it up doesn't automatically make them tea party or republican either.

You have to go back to Tim McVeigh to find a guy from the right who turned to violence - and he was unhappy with the right too. Before that you have to go into the 70's to find another "right winger" who was bombing abortions clinics - that was more religious than politics. The racial violence of the 60's was the left. The anti-war violence, was the left.

Barack Obama called 'terrorist' at Republican rallies as US election campaign turns nasty

Republican rallies have adopted an increasingly incendiary tone towards Barack Obama, with shouts of "kill him", "treason" and "terrorist" interrupting speeches by John McCain and Sarah Palin.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/3174101/Barack-Obama-called-terrorist-at-Republican-rallies-as-US-election-campaign-turns-nasty.html

Joyce Kaufman, a South Florida conservative radio talk show host on WFTL-850 AM, garnered national attention after newly elected U.S. Rep. Allen West hired her as his chief of staff a week after the Nov. 2, 2010, election. West is the Republican who ousted U.S. Rep. Ron Klein, the two-term Democrat who represents Congressional District 22, which spans parts of coastal and suburban Broward and Palm Beach counties.

On Nov. 9, the day after West announced he had hired Kaufman, MSNBC liberal commentator Rachel Maddow's 9 p.m. show had a piece that included a clip of Kaufman at a July 3, 2010, rally in Broward County in which she said:

"I don't care how this gets painted by the mainstream media, I don't care if this shows up on YouTube, because I am convinced that the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don't work, bullets will." The Second Amendment, remember, is the right to keep and bear arms.

Where is the outrage from these people's party? Why haven't we heard ONE GOP politician denouncing this behavior? (Granted, McCain tried a little at his rally, but then grinned and went with it.)

As usual, DB Akron, you either don't know your history or have a very selective memory.

Dr. Bernard Sleppian - abortion doctor killed November 13, 1998 after similar "targeting" by anti-abortion groups

Andrew Joseph Stack III - flew a plane into IRS building in Austin, February 18, 2010, leaving behind a rant against the government, big business and particularly the tax system

Just a couple in recent memory - there are lots more. For example, since the healthcare debate there have been incendiary packages sent to Janet Napolitano and others, windows broken and death threats to Democratic Congressmen, and even Judge Roll, who was killed in this attack, was under protection from right-wingers unhappy about his hearing a civil rights case filed by immigrants.

You can cover your butt, but if you don't speak up you're still liable, DB.

I am so sorry for Rep Giffords, who I heard on NPR last wednesady evening. I was so impressed by her comments, expecially next to the moron who spoke as counter point. Listening to her I thought - you know, there may still be hope and now this.

I feel so sorry for the other folks who needlessly lost thier lives.

I am so disgusted on so many level right now.

If only a NRA member with a permit to carry concealed had been there to take this guy out. Where are they when you need them? You never seem to be able to find a gun toter when you need one. Probably running across the parking lot in the other direction to get away from the mayhem.

We should avoid pinning the blame on the broader political left and right in this country for the attack on Giffords and the other victims.

Loughner is young and unhinged, as a point-of-fact. He and he alone is responsible for the deaths and physical crippling that resulted from this tragic affair. Let's not politicize the event solely for the furthering of any of our individual political biases.

I wish the very best for Giffords; a full and complete recovery, however remote that possibility may be.

Some of you want to blame this incident totally on the individual who pulled the trigger and refrain from politicizing the incident .... probably because it is very, very unlikely that this shooter had a liberal/progressive bone in his body. (Does anyone really believe that this person was anyone other than a right wing nut?) You people are wrong. This is political because there is an mean conservative faction in this country that fosters this kind of behavior and they are partially responsible for this incident and others like it.

We have far too many conservative folks in this country who legitimize this kind of behavior .... behavior that they are probably unlikely to participate in themselves, but nonetheless they legitimize those who do. The legitimizing behavior ranges from Sarah Palin publishing a "target map" which included this victim, Sharon Angle's "2nd Amendment remedies, Glenn Beck's "revolution" rants, Rush Limbaugh's divisive rhetoric, Michael Savage's hateful tone, Tom Tancredo's race politics, etc., etc. Unfortunately there are right wing nuts who listen to this stuff and act upon it.

The NRA emphasizes gun ownership and minimizing gun restrictions far more than it supports responsible gun ownership, making them a significant part of the problem.

Punishing the individual who pulled the trigger is important to our system of justice. Changing the hateful tone and loose language of the conservatives in this country is vital to our nation.

This certainly calls out Sarah Palin. She is an irresponsible horse's ass. This congresswoman was on television talking about how Sarah Palin's map showing Democratic politicians with cross-hairs targeting them would result in some bad consequences. Imagine that? This world does not need immature, selfish, irresponsible pigs like Palin, Limbaugh, Beck stirring up the hate and encouraging people who are half whacked anyway. GOOD JOB PALIN, LIMBAUGH AND BECK. YOU MAKE ME SICK.

Edward Bruce Williams

a man that had been in trouble with the law. Sounds alot more to me he is a left wing Zealot.

I guess "sounds like" is proof for people on the right. Me, the FACT he went to a Democratic political event and started killing Democratic politicians and supporters is a little more persuasive. But in spite of his murdering people because they are Democrats, you find a way to twist it into him being a Liberal. UNBELIEVABLE!

But I am sure you are used to living in a "No Fact Zone".

Well, the republican judge died, I doubt the little 9 year old girl was a democrat. Look at Gabby's web site or look up her voting records, I know it's not as easy as making sh!t up, but you might actually learn something.

Just from her site I see she was pretty moderate, she was for secure borders, fiscal resposibility, and she was against the auto bailout. That alone points to a far left douchebag commiting this horrendous act.

Mr Williams someone going to a democrat event and shooting it up doesn't automatically make them tea party or republican either.

No, but having two pictures of Sarah Palin and listing among your interests the Tea Party on your MySpace Page is a strong hint.

Just saw Speaker Bonehead on CSPAN. He reassured the country that he and the other Republicans he represents had the courage to continue in Congress in spite of this act of violence against a Congresswoman.

I know that was what was the top concern of everyone as Congresswoman Griffin is in a coma with a bullet through her brain. What a wonderful human being. Next he will be using this to do fundraising...

Saying Palin, Beck, and Limbaugh had nothing to do with this attack is akin to saying Osama bin Laden has nothing to do with terrorism.

Have the Conservative lost all line of reasoning or is it just that they don't care as long as they control the country? When you talk hate on the radio and the news media, weak minded people are swayed to believe they have a responsibility to do things they normally would not do. It's no different than what is happening in Muslim countries against "non believers" whereas those that don't believe as the conservatives are non believers of their system and must be "removed" one way or the other so they can "take back" the country.

Why have we not heard any Republicans denounce the nasty, mean rhetoric of their colleagues? All I hear is the same old "boys will be boys" -type, "Oh they are just exercising their right of free speech" excuses. Perhaps we need to take a lesson from Canada and make some hate speech laws (though I suppose it's unlikely that the ones who are speaking the hate speech will ever make laws against it). What is it going to take for people to say "enough, this is not who we are"? No one calls anyone on hate rhetoric, thus rendering it acceptable. The people who are saying right wing hate rhetoric doesn't have anything to do with all these violent acts are the same people who say violent video games have nothing to do with the rise in violence among young people. A culture of violence begets violent behavior. This is unacceptable. Are we just going to keep letting it slide, or are we going to do something about it? Are we so wrapped up in our imagined exceptionalism that we can't look around and learn from what is working in other countries? No other democratic country has the level of gun violence that we do. Why is that?

"Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event."

She only NARROWLY beat this guy?

TheMom

Thank you for telling us about that all-too-common example of "red meat" politics ... politics which has the unfortunate distinction of emphasizing our differences and legitimizing violence.

Isn't it interesting how "red meat" politics works best for "red state" issues?

This guy does not need a trial just a hanging. Shoots a woman in the back of her head kills a judge and several other people and a 9 year old girl who was born on 911. Tell me should waste time on him.

Sunday is a day for prayer for Christians let us pray for our country and our fellow Americans fighting for their lives this day and for the souls of those lives lost.

The Promoters of Hate make excuses and hide using the thought that this was the act of a lunatic acting on his own. Never acknowledging their promoting the hysteria of an atmosphere of impending doom for the nation if elected officials act in a humane and moderate conservative manner (national health care only one example). Remember “The Head Stomper”? I hope you were able to see the photo of the stomper with his arm around the gleaming Ron Paul. This was after the heading stomping of that little girl, both smiling even gleaming, basking in the some finely filtered color photo of the professional photographer. NO shame only promotion and a special photo with the newly elected representative of the American people. An American well win a life time gift of a one on one photo, with the long arm of the stomper around the shoulders of the representative of the American people, as his just reward. Yes look up the photo see them smiling, gleaming, their facial expressions of mutual affection, favorable expressions of amusement looking so pleasurable in each others company. By this act (Paul) the little coward Paul with the big bad dude, the head stomper of little women with her heads resting on hard cement sends a message, maybe at least a subliminal (actually a condoning) message that stomping on the head of a little girl’s skull resting on cement is just fine. This represents you and I whether we condone the act or not the photo and office holder represents you and I unless we protest the photo. Ron Paul is truly a representative of the entire nation once able to fashion the laws we must live under. It is called a representative Democracy, yes he is a direct representative of his district but by virtue of his office he effects the entire nation, that would include you and I. What he does effects you and I, yes I am repetitive on purpose the message never gets through it never ever reaches the conscious mind of the warped conscientious mind set (ethical and moral) of this populace this generation of The American people.

Mrs. Gifford may survive while at least 6 dead and others are in critical condition. She was one of many that the vicarious murderer Palin put a rifle "scope cross hairs" onto to her district, on a district map of the United States. You would be naive, unacknowledged maybe just not a "worldly" (no crime in that) person not to take the implication of such an act from a national political figure that relishes in killing as something other than a call for action than what is intensively suggested (murder and mayhem). We can down play this as to be the interpretation of the reader only (the shooter) and no overt call for murder is mentioned. The symbols (speak for themselves, come on now), the actual killings as filmed and shown throughout the nation of this self-promoting money hound (Palin) killing harmless animals for sheer pleasure from a helicopter, not even doing the work of a real hunter (Palin killing from a helicopter) is what it is. What manner of real game hunter is this? Well the question is what is it? I suspect most of America has a difficult time wrapping their heads around a real hunter and a pleasure seeking sadistic gratifying killing from a helicopter and confuse this as though a real game hunter was at work and not a sadistic killing machine (Palin) seeking self-aggrandizement. So flimsy a façade and so gullible the weak minded this ladies and gentleman is no hunter only a sadistic pleasure seeking killer.

So tonight only 6 dead and the congresswoman may survive after a dire prognosis, which always in my experience is a precursor to an announcement of death. I read those, as Palin have, have temporarily taken down the nuances to kill these congress members she and others have singled with the symbol of a riflescope cross hairs upon the congressional districts they have been elected to represent. They, as Palin, now try this subterfuge this concealment of their true persona that which is dear and an inner part of their being (they for the time being try to fool you take them down, they never existed). Why do they now take them down? So a copycat murderer won't see their covert call for murder? Cowards, that now hide who and what they stand for: what values, morals and standards of decency they promote. The kind of people they really are.

So the American public is again hoodwinked over so forever to be lead to the unreal, their specialty is dealing in the unreal the façade of humane interest in the American worker spiraling downward to levels of living matched only in third world countries. This is Sunday, a day of prayer for Christians and a day for somber self introspection of what we have become and focus on the public forces that propel our national psych into the mindless menace of violence that I will print excerpts from over the next few days or in my posts, do not fret I only post a few posts they seem always to be as mere expressions of myself as a mirror of the reality as I interpret such. I believe our minds are part of this world and reflect the world; we create our world with our minds. In part, the world is inert matter our minds are the creative force to mold this matter and this society to what is noble and just or to let others as those that call for our division to lead us and do the thinking for you. I suggest we, as independent Christians re-read the words of Jesus, in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (the Holy Bible) to only grasp what you have forgotten where his words as we live our lives in the cacophony of phony bumper sticker political slogans meant only to appeal to our darker side not to the better angels of our natural nature. I feel as if I could write so much more but what is the use? All this time the American people still are full of hatred for ghosts, scapegoats to take the heat from those that oppress the American middle class.

Just look at the work of the newly elected congress and see how again the American people have been duped and no outcry from those that these charlatans have by fraud to win their votes and thus now in our highest national administrative offices. They so brazenly do exactly the opposite of what put them into office and not a sound of protest from my fellow citizens. This the subject matter for a lengthy post but not today. The attack on the American middle class is for another day.

Today is not a day for politics lets leave that aside for the time being I will post only a small excerpt illustrating our penchant for mindless violence from a speech of Robert F Kennedy with heavy editing, changing the speech in significant ways and adding or deleting segments as I see fit. The speech is only my outline, my working template to express my feelings on this site and this is our right as members of, I should say members in good standing as I have earned a certain status form The NewsVine (don't ask me what the supportive email exactly meant to convey). So I utilize my right to post and you have the right not to read anything I post as I do of yours. You have no right to silence me as I have no right to silence you for innocuous words meant to promote peace and love of our fellow Americans. My posting is to promote harmony and not murder, are not offensive sentiments are harmless words excepting those whose stock in trade is hatred, they will most certainly find fault and take great umbrage.

"This a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. Lets speak tonight of the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives. It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black, White, Latino, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. NO – Matter where one lives or what one does – can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by any assassins' bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil murders. A sniper is only a COWARD, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason. Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily – whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, one punk or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence – whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another woman or man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and her children, the whole nation is degraded." - RFK

My deepest condolences go to the loss of all the families, a nine-year old little girl among the dead. She was a newly elected office holder, her fellow students elected her. I think of that act (her death), the effect on these children, what must they be thinking of our country tonight. May the victims of this senseless act rest in peace and their deaths serve to expose and silence those that call out covertly for murder and harm.

RIP: to the victims may your deaths not be in vain let us please take heed

Good Day and Good Luck

Dr. George Tiller - June 4, 2009.

How many more have to die before we stop the hatemongering?

logdump

Those of you who rant about vigilante justice and death penalties are as bad as those who rant about "2nd Amendment remedies" and "lock and load." You are part of the problem and not the solution.

Let see now, the guy is a druggie and hates God and country. Doesn't sound conservative to me. Where do you people pin this on Palin. Maybe he was going after her next.He had a picture of her on myspace as he also had a picture of this congresswoman.

Hey Bruce, as a right down the middle libertarian, I was interested in reading your comments up until you engaged in needless name calling. It is at that point you resorted to the exact behavior you deem to be enciteful/hateful. Why is is that people cannot discuss facts without resorting to petty name calling. Are we really that immature as a nation?

Loughner, in a written statement found by Authorities very recently, declare he was watching Giffords and planning her Assassination. More late information.

Now what does this have to do with the Tea Party, and all the likes on the other side.

This guy with a combination of being mentally insane, paranoid, and having an obsession as the bottom line.

So why should anyone blame this on Politics--it was a crazy man taking innocent lives, including children who were out for a day of shopping with their parents at Safeway.

Where does Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and the others have "blood on their hands". That is a very strong statement of untruths.

Look into your subconscious and ask yourselves, "Why Did this Happen".

A Mental Disorder that massacres. No excuses for this creep that will live, hopefully getting the Death Penalty and live longer than any of us. We, the taxpayers will be paying for his long life in jail. That is the "bonus" for a crime so huge, and very easy to explain.

A Challenge to commentors: Do you think this horrific crime is worthy of the Death Penalty? All States should have it for this heinous kind of crime, leaving all the victims families behind. It is in his own way a Terrorist act..

So you libs want to blame this on Palin, Bech, Hannity, Rush, etc.

What are you going to do about it? Seriously. What do you think should happen to Palin, Beck, Hannity, Rush, and all your other so called evil people.

If ANY of you liberals had any rational thought you would take this for what it is. A 22 year old whacko kid who was unstable for a long long time and slipped through the very system that you advocate. So if you want to start blaming groups of people you may want to look in the mirror first before pointing fingers.

Pathetic, all you liberal posters on here.

Real American,

Mr. Stack III was initially reported to be a republican, and shown to be a registered Democrat who turned on government as his finances failed. http://coloradoindependent.com/47744/domestic-terrorist-joseph-stack-unsurprisingly-raged-against-corporate-greed-and-political-status-quo

There is a reference to the Huffington post, but is now archived.

You are pretty correct about the Mr Kopp. I had indeed forgotten about that one not by convenience though, I just didn't look up the 90's for it as I should have. If you study it there were problems with the case - which is why France refused to extradite Mr Kopp after he fled there upon conviction.

Mr Kopp who was convicted of murdering Dr Slepian was a protestant turned Catholic who joined severely anti-abortion group. These group self-identify as right wing. Be aware though - The assumption that right wing is the only ones anti-abortion is simply untrue. Catholics who mostly are Democrats are often just as anti-abortion as the right wing. Mr Kopp believed in “justifiable homicide”. That puts him further right than libertarians or further left than Progressives in the political realm.

BTW - from research - most anti-abortions groups do civil disobedience or typical picketing tactics. They are usually about stopping murder as they see it, not committing murders.

logdump

Those of you who rant about vigilante justice and death penalties are as bad as those who rant about "2nd Amendment remedies" and "lock and load." You are part of the problem and not the solution.

Cal;ling this guy a liberal is akin to calling Osama bin Laden a Christan. It's not how you "appear", it's how you act and everyone knows that the Republicans retorts to violence to get their way. Right wing "Christians" that bomb abortion clinics, shoot lawyers in church, bomb federal buildings, attack moveon.org workers, etc. Since this site won't allow links, Google the internet for "right wing violence".

Larry - link posting is a privilege that eventually may be given to you.

Abortion clinic - yes - some "self-proclaimed misguided" people have done that. They obviously have no concept of what being christian really is or they wouldn't do that.

I don't remember the lawyer - but there was an abortion doctor slain in a church - by a one of the "christians".

McVeigh was registered republican who fell out of the right wing literally. The other Federal building hit was a left winger anti-government type.

be careful of the moveon.org - I haven't seen that one - seeing that - be a little more selective about your sources. Some groups "create" news of their own imaginations.

Gee, I have a picture of Sarah and our governor (don't ask me why, but it has nothing to do with politics). I'm middle of the road on politics. Oh--an I own a couple of guns. Does that make me some nut that's going to go out blast down a bunch of people on a street corner? I don't think so. This guy appears to be totally mentally unbalanced, so playing the politics card is uncalled for. What this forum should really be about is the detection of mental health problems and what we can positively do to help those who suffer from them.

So many have all the right wingers and left wingers and liberals and conservatives on their minds, it's no wonder that Congress is such a mess. Instead of working TOGETHER to solve our problems, we are putting radical agendas into place that do just the opposite. A starting place, you ask? Start with the phrase, "Can we agree that . . . ," and continue on from that point. If we can't agree on whatever, then find something else than we can, even if it's the sky is blue and water is wet. But this endless bickering has to stop. It's counterproductive all the way around.

Many condolences to those who lost their loved ones. A quick and speedy recovery to those who were injured and wounded.

Just as much as all the other crap written in this blog, let's blame insanity on the left wing, as , Charles Manson was a liberal, and James Earl Ray was a liberal and a democrat, who shot Martin Luther King. One could go on and on and find nut cases on both sides, and after all of it, it still was the fault of the individual. Some of the people posting here I think could use a bit of counseling or maybe have their meds increased, also on both sides.

in it all, nobody but the shooter is to blame. Yes, it was a tragic thing to happen, but if only all of you would show the same concern to the hundreds of our servicemen and women that are being killed needlessly. As a Vietnam vet, I know what it is like to come home and have garbage and feces thrown at me when I get of the plane. Our service people are facing political and religious zealots all over the world and are being killed by them. I would like to see some concern for them. They enlisted and wrote a blank check for any amount up to and including their lives, and for who?? You and everyone else in this country. A few of our politicians are the same. They ran because they chose to serve this great country, while others did it to further their own agendas and financial goals.

I have been all over the world and there are crazies everywhere!! Some even on this blog! Guns don't cause it, Politics don't cause it! It's the nut cases that want to make everyone else follow their ideas and ways of life. And if they don't want to agree, then they resort to violence. The ones that say, I believe in freedom of speech as long as I agree with what you say! I agree with your life style only as long as I like it too. Sorry , but we are not all the same, we don't all believe in the same goals, gods, or anything else. People that believe in a god believe in one that looks like themselves, or an older "person". A oriental sees one that is oriental, a native american sees one that is native american in features. a black person sees god as black. This doe4s not mean that is what their god looks like but just how they perceive them. So in short, forget trying to place blame, and work to get along with others in a peacable way, and not try to place everyone in a convient pigeon hole!

trsweeton

If your remark was directed to me, I plead guilty for the "Speaker Bonehead" remark. I am just upset, this sort of thing does that to me. The Congresswoman, the Judge, the staffers, the nine year old, these seemed to be really good people. Nobody deserves to die, but these people tear my heart.

I have watched the Speaker on CSPAN too much to not have some anger towards his "attack and say anything to win the election" style. Oops - doing it again. Better quit while I am behind...

Yes the right wing screams about being blamed, as the Fundamentalist churches post things on their web sites like GOD SENT THIS SHOOTER!

Are you people kidding me! Acting as though the lefts outrage over this killing and the FACT that it was proceeded by over a year of RIGHT WINGERS like PALIN and Beck TARGETING this congress woman is some how equal to the Hate filled Bigoted Vitriol spewing out of the right.

Get a grip people!

Everyone with an ounce of sense knows that this act did not happen in a bubble. This unbalanced kid targeted this women because she has been portrayed by the right as a demon.

Indagroove - what do I think should be done with Palin, Rush, Hannity, etc. for fomenting revolution and treason?

Well, what have we done with traitors in the past? At the very least, they're inciting violence and are guilty of conspiracy to murder. Palin's "gun-sight map" is basically a hit list.

It's tragically ironic that the 9-year-old who was killed was born on 9/11 and was one of 50 babies featured in " Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11."

There were many ways for our country to go after 9/11, but yesterday she became a victim of fear-mongering elements of our society who have used that event to gain power for themselves and demonize anyone who opposes them. We can be a better country, but we have to stand up and say "ENOUGH".

The "gunsights" were not on the candidates picture, they were on a map of congressional districts. They were targeting election districts, NOT candidates!

The "gunsights" were not on the candidates picture, they were on a map of congressional districts. They were targeting election districts, NOT candidates!

And the way they get the district is how? "Taking out" the Representative who is there now?

Everybody knows she meant target the person, not the real estate with your gun. Don't insult our intelligence.

Reality Check>> Pretend for a minute that yesterday's event's didn't take place, now pretend that it is August of 2010 and a Democratic candidate was telling their supporters "Don't worry about the GOP gaining a majority in the House, because we still have our 2nd amendment rights", what do you suppose the response from O'Reilly, Beck, Limbaugh and others at that end of the dial would be?

Now fast forward to January of 2011 and imagine that yesterday it was a Republican member of the House who had been near fatally shot and that 6 innocent bystanders had been killed and a number of others wounded in a senseless act of violence.

What do you suppose the postings from those on the extreme right who regularly post on this web site would look like given all other factors being equal?

Gary - if she didn't mean the PEOPLE, why did she list each of their names under the map? Hmm???

Go look at it for yourself and tell me again Palin wasn't targeting these INDIVIDUALS:

http://radio.foxnews.com/2010/03/24/palin-puts-gun-sights-on-%E2%80%9Ctarget%E2%80%9D-map-urges-we-%E2%80%9Creload%E2%80%9D/

She not only put up a gun-sight cross-hairs map that identified these Congressmen as "the problem", she also posted:

Commonsense Conservatives and Lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page.

I don't understand how Sara Palin could get away with putting gun sights on elected officials

Proof please.......I have never heard of this

replytoj001

Please view the link above. That's what we're talking about.

it's past time to start protecting our own. years ago, some mental incompetent tried to maim my then-4 yr old, he's now a quadruplegic (no firearm involved) by my hand. then some gang bangers tried to terrorize my wife and 5 yr old-I faced all 6 with my bare hands, and they backed down, then had the colossal Gaul to tell Avondale PD "i called them the F-bomb" when they threatened to kill all of us-Somehow, that doesn't equate to killing us in my book-then a little later they got high, shot up the house they rented and "claimed" they were kidnapped and escaped, while the kidnapper shot up the house-again, they got away with it. When we moved, more gang bangers tried to mess around, because we "Dared to object" while thier excessively loud music at 340AM on a Tuesday was challenged-they came bragging about "teaching me not to mess with them" while they carried sawed off shotguns and clubs-but didn't expect an M4 carbine to be looking at them with a 90 rd snail drum-changed thier tune really quick once they were on my property -hard to say you're being assaulted when you're on someone else's driveway With Illegal weapons while being On Parole. All along, the law abiding citizens have had to put up with more and more BS, more restrictions from liberal Anti gun idiots, being told the gang pigs "need thier weapons" while We Don't. is it so hard to see why i Don't Agree with taking weapons from Legal Citizens? We'd Certainly be Dead now, Several Times Over if liberals had thier way. Instead, we're not only Alive, well and intend on remaining that way, but can protect our neighborhood when things happen like that. My Neighbor is PD, but was Afraid to step forward when that happened. Well, I'm LEO as well, AND a Combat Veteran who fought too many times for this Great Nation to let some Drugged out idiots play violence. if we don't start protecting our loved ones, our homes and our nation, instead of listening to reassurances that are Baseless about "Our borders have never been more secure" and all the rest of the BS, Including helping out in any way we can with security, just like people did in WW2, watching for sabotage, boxes or bags left in subways, all the stuff terrorists and unbalanced people do, we're going to end up not only Losing the freedom our nation is based on, but allowing the Rot to spread Further until we All suffer for it. I volunteer to help people. Will You? Do Your Part, and we all can sleep more soundly.

Both parties are guilty. However, there are different degrees of guilty. I hate pointing fingers, but this is the sick way it is now. Somehow the far right is able to bend this into him being liberal, when really he just happened to have pictures of Sar-RAH, and was interested in the Tea Party. Maybe that is because the Tea Party wants to start a freakin' revolution, and is much more anti-government than any true conservative I know.

We must mourn for those lost to a madman's bullets once again. We must pray for those still fighting for their lives. We must demand justice for the killer and any possible accomplices. We must ask why? As scant as the details may be at this time, part of the "why" is right beneath our noses. The stench is overpowering.

How anyone can defend the highly visable present day politicians and media members that have inferred that violence may be the answer to solving this nation's problems is incomprehensible?

The money hungry and power seeking harlots were warned that this day was coming because of their cheap and immoral tactics. That day has arrived and this is just the beginning. I find it ironic that those demanding personal responsibility at the tops of their lungs (concerning the poor or less fortunate) are now in hiding to escape responsibility for this carnage of their making. The silence is deafening.

Rapture, the Tea Party is all for freedom of speech - until they need to get rid of the evidence. They're on every board out there, collapsing every reference to Palin's gunsight map. Worried? Good.

GOP - Enjoy your short two years controlling the house. You picked the wrong bedfellows.

This pretty much guarantees Democratic wins accross the board.

And guess who stays in the White House?

Further similar incidents will only cement the inevitable, although I believe the damage was already done yesterday.

I doubt this will have any effect on the next election and if it does it will only get these nuts out voting.

I wonder how many people commenting here even went out and voted in the last election? Of course, all of you will say you did.

I love the way how delusional bigots coined the phrase "not all muslim are terrorist, but all terrorists are muslim". Brilliant isn't it?

Hmm, let me see what do we have here...what does Ted Kaczynski, Timothy Mcveigh, Jared Loughner, etc. have in common? Oh they're just REAL American patriots. Nothing serious to worry about...they're just a little bit mentally insane. They're everything but a terrorist. Right on delusional bigots LOL!!!

Redstar

Good point! And the folks you listed are examples of people who act on the divisive rhetoric from irresponsible conservatives like Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, Palin, Angle, Liddy, etc., etc. There so many conservative windbags it's hard to keep track, but they are feeding the frenzy with loose talk of "Second Amendment remedies", "lock and load", "righteous kill", and all of the other loose language. Intelligent speakers are able to make a point using reason and relying on critical thinking. The windbags have no point without being inflammatory .... in fact, their whole point is to be inflammatory.

The worst of ourselves comes out at times of fear, anger, frustration, and even sadness.

There's no set timeline for us to end the grieving process and begin hashing out the rhetoric that beget all this, but can't it at least wait a week??

We're one nation, and as a collective, we should come together to provide the solidarity that the families and friends of these victims need after such a horrific loss! We are Americans, and that means we have the responsibility to first care for our people, then fight for their vindication when the time comes.

With all this negativity, can we agree to save (of all things) this one thread and turn it into a place to honor those we have lost? I'll begin...

To the Congresswoman and her family, I hope that you make a full recovery and can come back to service in this nation with dignity. You and your husband have provided faithful service to this nation, and we are eternally grateful.

To the family and friends of the child lost, I hope that you will be forever blessed with the memory of your daughter, and that everything she was in life will make a positive impact for generations to come.

To all else who were affected, we regret your loss and support you.

I have forgotten one...

To the family and friends of Judge Roll, my deepest sympathies and utmost respect to you. You have lost a loved one, and this nation has lost a defender of our people, our nation, and our way of life.

This is a tragedy! I am amazed at all the HATE in here.

Interesting - what I have read here is both sides - and all I can think is what I have learned is that the "Pen is mightier than the sword" Words kill - incite - Goebbels said it best tell a lie often enough and people will believe you.

Are you aware Canada will not allow Fox News call themselves a "News" station? We have the same ideas we just haven't followed it. Enough - and I say enough! We have laws that do not allow inciteful language it is time to reinforce it!

We do not allow breasts being shown, yet we allow anti- government and slander, get a bullet - 2nd Amendment BS which was only their to form a militia to protect the government

My husband recieved an invitation to join the NRA - and yes we do have a gun, my husband was in the Air Force as Security Police - if any of you have not read their BS pick it up it is horrendous - we both looked at each other and were aghast What lies and sick sick sick .

By the way my husband was a Republican and has since left the party

Ultra-conservatism is to blame here. We pollute people's mind with so much talk about the tyranny of government. There are too many Republican politicians publicly advocating a forceful and violent take over of of democratically elected officials that some people actually believe their crap. These politicians should be held accountable for using violent rhetoric. Fox News and Co. are also at fault for exacerbating demagogues, misconceptions, and half-truths. As long as ultra-conservatism continues to advocate their principles using violent rhetoric such as war, armed militias, coup d'etat etc. there will be nutcases who will continue to kill democratically elected officials.
-Timothy McVay -sympathized with armed militias and wanted to destroy the Federal Government. (influence by conservatism)
-Eric Robert Rudolph -bombed Centennial Olympic Park, Lesbian Night club, and an abortion clinic (influenced by conservatism)
-Scott Roeder - pro-choice advocate shot and killed George Tiller MD while Dr. Tiller attended church. (influenced by conservatism)
-Arian Brotherhood - populate or prison system proclaiming a purity of an authentic race...

I could go on and on... my point is simple. Why are conservative politicians advocating taking back a democratically elected government by physical armed force when every day Americans can not even shout "fire" inside a crowded movie theater? Why can't I scream "bomb" inside an airport? Why do politician's and ultra-conservative networks get a free pass at advocating physical harm on other people?

The comments by many of the people here are both disgusting and frightening! I am now realizing the depth of our stupidity when reading these threads. This situation is not about Palin, the democrats or any one person. This is about an unstable young man that acted out in his terrible confusion.

What frightens me is the malice, hate and ignorance I have been reading on the threads that deal with this horribly tragic situation. What are our schools teaching our kids??? I hope and pray that most of the comments are by young people that still have much to learn because if not, this country is in BIG trouble!

Angel, it's irresponsible to ignore the growing conservative trend of inciting people to physically use fire-arms against politicians who do not agree with their views. If your attempt is to ignore this trend then you are the ignorant one. By the way, our schools are not doing anything worse to our country then the ultra-conservative media outlets are doing.

I'd like to throw a HUGE Hooah! out to the Staff Sergeant who replied above.

Why is this in any way political??????? Who cares if this guy was Marxist or NAZI or a Satan worshiper or anything else for that matter? He was (first and foremost) SEVERELY mentally deranged. Any label he chose to give himself after that is as meaningless as though he had affiliated with the Martian Interplanetary Invasion Force. The guy had no concept of right or left, and if he hadn't blamed this on Hitler, he (being a decidedly violent and possibly psychotic individual) would have heard voices, or played a video game, or watched one too many re-runs of Beevis and Butthead..... the list of things and people to blame just goes on ad absurdem.

as an aside to those who would blame this attack on "the gun"- two issues I have with that- First and foremost, the old trite saying: "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns". Think about what the SSG wrote a few posts up, the guns those people were brandishing at him ARE ALREADY ILLEGAL. You think that a piece of paper in D.C. or the local courthouse will somehow magically transform all those guns into marshmallows????? THEY EXIST. Period. If it exists, SOMEONE will get ahold of it.

Secondly- Assume, for a moment, that we HAVE managed to transform all guns into marshmallows- In this Utopia of bubblegum and rainbows, what do you do when a Congressperson is assassinated by a bow and arrow? a thrown rock? a glass bottle filled with gasoline and a lit fuse???? should we then outlaw glass bottles? should we issue permits for concealed rocks? Maybe the ATF should crack down on sticks and string? Since there have been people, there has been violence and even murder. A PERSON did this. A disturbed person who (as has been pointed out) has been throwing off red flags for YEARS. Maybe it is not the weaponry that needs to be addressed, or the political climate either... Maybe, just maybe, we should take a long slow look at the attitudes we have for one another as HUMAN BEINGS.

Maybe, and I know this sounds kinda radical, but MAYBE if the individuals he had contact with in his formative years, and even recently had paid some sort of attention to the warning signs... OR, in other words, had ANY sense of "community" and "responsibility" he could have been helped (or, should all else fail- incarcerated) LOOONG ago. But I digress. Point is this-------- This was ONE INSANE DUDE. He was not a part of any conspiracy, nor was he the unfortunate pawn of some political movement.... he was a LUNATIC, driven by his own decisions and interpretations, who took the road of violence and placed HIS OWN agenda above the lives of anyone else. I can tell you all day and all night that so-and-so should be stoned to death. At the end of all that, YOU ALONE are an agent unto yourself and bear the entire responsibility should you decide to go stone them. What an unfortunate event. My prayers go out to the friends, families, and survivors of this traumatic event. As a combat vet, I can tell you- not all scars are visible, and those who witnessed this or survived it may not necessarily be much better off than those who unfortunately and tragically did not. Truly a sorrowful day.

ROFL, Juan!!! I hope you are kidding! I do agree that the media IS somewhat responsible for some of this mess but again, we were given minds to think! I only listen to some of the media outlets on occasion, just to get an idea what idiotic things they are throwing out to the public. I can agree that Beck and Limbaugh and some of the other "ultra-conservative" guys are nuts but I have heard Maddow and Offerman (sp?) sprout even more hate-filled rhetoric. Listen to BOTH the Libs and conservative views. Use your brains, people. If you ARE listening only to the media and allowing them to form your opinions, shame on YOU!

Well within the last decade I have not heard any liberal call people to arms and violently overthrow a Democratically elected official. Republicans on the other hand, are heavy with the coup d'etat, war, and guns rhetoric. This mindlessly irresponsible propaganda should have not place in modern day politics. If you do not feel that these media outlets have resulted by pushing some unstable minds over the edge then you are part of the problem.

Moreover, why are conservative politicians and ultra-conservative media bobble heads allowed to advocate usage of firearms to violently overthrow democratically elected officials? Is that not treason? Is that not unpatriotic?

Isn't it against the law to shout "fire" inside a crowded movie theater if there isn't a fire? Isn't it against the law to shout "bomb" inside an airport if there isn't one? Well, how come idiots like Sara Palin, and Co. get a free pass when advocating the usage of firearms to remove democratically elected officials?

Shame on you for attempting for denying the fact that some people actually do listen to these idiots and take them for their word. Ignoring reality will not make it disappear.

Again, ROFL, Juan.....tell me, do you really, really think Palin was calling for violent protest and literally killing opposition candidates like so many other posters on this thread??? If you do, you are definitely included in my posts! BTW, assume means??? I never said to ignore reality!

another nail in the Palin coffin.

AngelP

I will agree that it is unlikely that Sarah Palin actually expected someone to use the targets she published literally and kill someone. It is true, however, that she was careless with her language and she has made a very nice living for herself lately spouting divisive politics, often with gun metaphors and other incendiary language.

Words do have consequences and people in the public arena have a responsibility to use their platform responsibly. Those like Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, Liddy, and North are unwilling or unable to make their conservative case intellectually, but very willing and very able to spout divisive and hateful rhetoric. They contribute to the divisive and mean-spirited public discussion and they fuel their followers, often with sad consequences.

There is no one-to-one connection between this shooter and the "red meat" talking heads, but they certainly create and maintain a hateful environment and help the wing nuts justify their actions.

How so ?

There are enough hate mongers here to satisfy anyone's lust for revenge. Just listen to us. We have become a nation of screaming, self-righteous bigots.

So do you by pushing your hate and intolerance of people with other views. They did nothing-the nutcase left winger did it. Prayers go out to all involved.

We're already seeing right-wing blogs referring to this as a "repeatable incident" or a "reproducable [sic] incident." There is a degree of gloating the the vitriol has been successful in eliminating a Democratic Congresswoman from office. Much is being made on right-wing blogs of the opinions that she is so severely injured that she will not be able to resume her elected duties and will have to forfeit the office. The presence of the bizarre and hate-spewing Arizona Governor Brewer will make it more likely that a Tea Bagger will be appointed to replace Rep. Giffords.

Chris-749391

We're already seeing right-wing blogs referring to this as a "repeatable incident" or a "reproducable [sic] incident." There is a degree of gloating the the vitriol has been successful in eliminating a Democratic Congresswoman from office. Much is being made on right-wing blogs of the opinions that she is so severely injured that she will not be able to resume her elected duties and will have to forfeit the office. The presence of the bizarre and hate-spewing Arizona Governor Brewer will make it more likely that a Tea Bagger will be appointed to replace Rep. Giffords.

(The presence of the bizarre and hate-spewing Arizona Governor Brewer will make it more likely that a Tea Bagger will be appointed to replace Rep. Giffords.)

Your statement above is spewing your own brand of hateful bigioted mongering.

You are the hate monger for even making that reference! Get real would you. This suspect is way closer to a leftist than a conservative. And if the Democrat party would stop waging class warfare much of this vitriol would stop. Grow up!

It makes sence, that a Tea Party canidate would recieve the spot. I doubt that Chris-749391 ment to insite Milo's response, but point out a repeated action by state govenors through US history.

I have to blame the net and the individual. Civil discourse is a time gone by the way side. The net allows all sorts of crap...thoughts and prayers for the families.

Working for the government has always come with a risk.

Can you please be respectful for the deceased and stop your nonce of stick this tragedy on liberals. Every expert talking on this subject said that this is caused right wing hate monger Sarah Plain.

Mike, why would a Democrat shoot another Democrat, that's just retarded. People don't assassinate people within their own party for political reasons.

Plus, THE SHOOTER HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING THE GOP-LEANING JUDGE WOULD BE THERE. THE JUDGE WAS AN UNFORTUNATE VICTIM.

AND PLEASE DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING ABOUT ME AND MY POLITICAL VIEWS BY THIS COMMENT WHATSOEVER.

Can you see where this is going? Only the left can take the actions of a "unstable" person who after his supposed targeted victom is shot keeps on shooting wildly as an act of political discourse.

WAKE UP!

And Castro? Are you serious? Castro? Why even print items from this leftist in an article about this?

You people that want to blame this on the likes of Palin and others are just as bad as the shooter. No brains and very unstable.

Hate Mongers? Seriously?

Pleeeeaaaase.

(Idiot)

"Don't retreat, reload!"

- Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska

"If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies."

- Sharron Angle, former member of the Nevada State Assembly

"If ballots don't work, bullets will."

- Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party activist

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Currently serving United States Congresswoman from Minnesota Michele Bachmann, leader of the Tea Party Caucus, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson

"Sarah Palin has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district and when people do that, they've gotta realize there are consequences to that action."

- Currently serving Congresswoman from Arizona Gabrielle Giffords

Blaming all Republicans or Tea Party members for this is a joke...

Who is to blame for Reagan being shot? All Democrats? No...

The fact that this kid smokes pot...Do we blame everyone who smokes pot? or anyone who carries a gun? No....

Get a grip American...There is plenty of hate on both sides...During these tough times, I have not heard our President say many nice things about any Republican...We are turning into a society of hate...Look at all the reality TV that we all get off on watching people fail and loving it....

It is up to everyone of us to get our sanity back and start caring instead of over generalizing on issues....I don't give a damn if you are a D or a R politically...As a society, we are all failing but it is not too late...

Choose your course America...

facts rule

Unfortunately... Strap in folks. There maybe more of this until we learn to work and live together.

All my best to her and her family. And those who also suffered at the hands of this mad man.

What about all the LEFT haters? Why don't these people matter? Don't you think ...

Yes, Sarah Palin and her ilk should be indicted as co-conspirators. Same method they use to indict the mafia. This is the political mafia, folks.

These dogmatic hate mongers have influenced the public consciousness and misled the American people according to their own views that are continually influenced by wealthy conservative corporations who own the media that they work for.

Colombine had no party affiliations, the left or right didn't provoke those killings, nor did they this; this guy is not crazy, as he plotted and planned, but worthless and self serving as they.

Palin's comments may have been poor taste, bad judgement, but certainly didn't push this a-hole over the edge; nor did the Tea Party, the Republicans, or the Democrats or Independents.

He was gonna go after some one; he talked to the Congresswoman 3 yrs. ago, didn't like her answer to his incoherent question, and now here we are.... I expect he thought he'd gone down in a shoot out once he started, and will come up with all kinds of excuses, lies, and theories and get awesome legal representation because the lawyer(s) will love the exposure and deals gotten.

But Palin or anyone having responsibility for this? Nope....

How do we get from an assassination attempt (and I pray the congresswoman survives) to a blast against so-call "hate mongers."

Remember John Hinckley, Jr, Sirhan Sirhan, Ted Kaczynski, Lynette Fomme and a laundry list of assassins and would-be assassins? These people were basically mentally deranged.

It would take more time than this column has to talk about motivations of all assassin, but with rare exceptions, it is the act of a deranged person. I abhor the implication that the blame lies in the political right.

Reply to Moderation and Realist: wow, did you just get your prophets license? Evidently, you are all seeing and all knowing...

Are you kidding me?blaming Rush Limbaugh and others have no blame here if they did then lets spread the blame to ALL NEWS media and not just a chosen few.B/C they too report false reports 24/7.so lets put the blame where it should be and thats w/the shooter.I will pray for you and for the congresswoman and all the families.

The labelers and haters are out in force. They use any forum to push their radical beliefs and agendas, demonize those whose political beliefs differ from theirs and toss accusations about like confetti. In many respects they are very similar to the shooter, paranoia and blame assessment seem to be their stock in trade along with an apparent incapacity for compassion or tolerance.

All I got to say about this is that are news men are not at fault for others they choose to do the wrong thing and this is sad and that you half to blame other people for this. This person decieded to go into the store and shot people he didnt have them beside him saying hey this is great that you are doing this. I bet you talk to any of them they would tell you this person is a very sick person. Should we all blame you for what is going on in this world I dont think so. Maybe you should have more of a open mind of what these guys are trying to get across and what they have to say is true and ya some times they can be in the wrong but the history of it all is true so if you dont like the history then you have a problem. Just like this person did he had a problem and he took the wrong route to do it in. My prayers goes out to the familys that got hurt in this.

Grunt***You are a fool***

Try George Soros

i agree

in the past 4 or 5 years we have a whole new list of republican cowboys who seems to be trying to take the country back 25 years on ideals..these people are stiring up hatred and to me its shocking that in 2011 that people like this still exsist...i watch fox news and it just makes me angry...funny how in 2000 fox clamed no problems with the election and back then they were seen as more equal news..10 years later its a hotbed for republicans to the point that i cannot even watch the news with out hearing some finger pointing or biggot (beck) up there acting like he is on a pulpit..i think the next year is gonna be scary as hell with politics...canada is looking better and better to me as time goes on...even the UK...

@Realist;

Yep.... remember the attempt on Reagan? Over Jodie Foster; deranged is deranged, putting on political spin is worthless, but will serve to further divide what's already divided and make things worse than they are.

Let 'em play though, just hope there aren't that many thinking in 2 dimensions.

Palin-tology uses direct warcraft language and this nutty dude took the rhetoric seriously. What is very interesting is the "person of interest" and his past either political or hysterical. Toasty McGrath got the Tea Party quotes right (see top of post). This may be just the beginning of Tea Party militia and Palin-tology venom manifesting in our country. Connect the dots. Its not that hard.

Prove it. Show me where this guy said he was doing this because of the names you named. I hope you have never or ever sit in on any king of jury. Justice would not be served. Mouthing off and spewing hate seems to be from both sides but, only one side seems to think that it does not happen with them. I will give you 2 guesses who and one is not conservatives.

back in your hole ....moron

Prove What? - That you are a Palin-tologists. That is clear.

There are hate-mongers on both sides, don't forget. Ever listen to Schultz, Olbermann, Matthews and Maddow? Non-stop vitriol. Neither side is innocent when it comes to screaming and ranting and raving. Is all this ranting doing one bit of good or changing either side's closed minds about anything? No! All the hate spewing coming from libs and conservatives is just fueling the fires in the mind of sickos and sending them over the edge. Time to sit back and think before we exercise our freedom of speech rights and start taking into consideration that always saying and expressing and pushing our thoughts might be better left unsaid. Wackos cannot handle some of our spewing and I think it's becoming obvious some of these wackos are ready and willing to pounce and take freedom of expression to the extreme.

Resolute! Its not hate mongers on both sides. Look at the words and imagery both sides use. You will see there is a difference. Yes, the MSNBC speaking can be upsetting but they do not use the bullseye, don't retreat reload, blood of patriots, crosshairs, bullets work better language and imagery used by the far right. This is the problem and a clear distinction. I find it revealing you do not see the difference.

You might want to include Schultz, Olbermann, Matthews and Maddow in your hateful tirade. They are not exactly lily white examples of human tolerance either.

Rush, Beck? R U kidding me ? What an A$$

Are you sure the Dems never used a bullseye?

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

So do you by pushing your hate and intolerance of people with other views. They did nothing-the nutcase left winger did it

Nutcase left winger? No he wasn't, but keep on "pushing your hate and intolerance of people with other views"

Nobody knows anything about the shooter, yet the "loving" left wing nuts have the shootings blamed on any number of "hateful"conservatives. Hell, I'm waiting for one of the lib genuises to blame it on Bush! Wouldn't surprise me at all!

proof it and cite your proof . I can say that Harry Reid has rattle his chops this past week attacks Americans citizens who are members of the Tea Party and out right challenging them stirring up them American people instead of bring the American people together as a Leader and statesman. he sounded like a gang member on the side of the road shame on him. But to this poster you need to stop going out in the streets yelling at someone anyone because you momma and daddy taught you or you did this in the 1960's because that was the only way they knew how to resolve issues scream and attack. Shame on them and there is better more human caring loving and intelligent ways of resolving issues now. But I want so bad for this generation of screamers to get to old to keep this up and stop teaching our young ones this is proper behavior. Oh I know there is a time to do this but every single time and every single issue. Nope I disagree. and by the way this insane man and his assistants stated that they are socialists and Communist and his favorite loved book is Hitlers self penned book My Kamp, sorry about the spelling . So wait until you get all the facts screamers and accuers you vigilanty groups. Why dont you take this time to give thoughts to the congresswoman and the others that are wounded and prayers for the ones that lost their loved ones. Hows that for ya. Might be to much to ask.

and the lowlifes are proud of it. It was only a matter of time before Arizona produced a whacko incident. How long can people listen to the idiocy of Gov. Brewer, John McBraindead and the rightwing hate media before one of the gun-toting head cases explodes? I'm surprised this didn't happen during the 08 election when these desert dimwits started bringing assault rifles to public political rallies.

you are just as bad as this insane shooter only with word attacks but you and other will never see it because you beleive you are RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT.

WRONG

Hate mongers like Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck and Michael Savage have direct complicity in this tradgedy.

Idiot-speak

This "assassination" had/has nothing to do with any talk show/TV show pundit.

I knew it would only take a few hours before the "we must blame someone" game began.

Oberman, Maddow, Reid, Pelosi, et al, are just as guilty in this.....

This is about a serious deranged/upset individual

replytoj001

This guy was neither democrat nor republican.

He suffered from alcohol poisoning and became a loner according to a classmate in high school and college (he dropped out of college). See also said he was liberal, not conservative.

His my space and youtube works mentioned nothing of Palin or the Tea Party. I saw those yesterday. He had a big issue over our monetary system not being backed by silver or gold and that we needed a currency. This is neither democrat, republican. He liked Mein Kampf and another overthrow the government work. This also is not Tea Party which simply wants reasonable government with less taxing and spending.

Facebook was already down, but plenty of fake information has surfaced. Making statements about Palin and other conservatives leadership being on there doesn't fit the other two sources and but no proof to back statements it and can only be taken as hearsay.

Add hate mongers like Barrack Obama who referred to republicans as enemies and also Nancy Pelosi and other democrat leaders who called people speaking out against their agenda Nazis and terrorists to those responsible for this attack.

Somehow I think thisleft wing fanatic didn't kisten to the Rush Limbaugh Show but I cvould be wrong.

Well, first off he clearly isn't left-wing...

Edna453

Great link!!!! But please don't try to confuse the open minded, tolerant left with any facts that there are "hate mongers" on the left. Afterall, everyone knows that it is always Bush's fault and then Limbaugh, Beck, etc.

although I am curious in that when a muslim kills people the left here on the vine seems to say that we should not condemn an entire group (Islam/Muslims) because of the act of one or a small number of radical Muslims, yet the left condems all conservatives, radio talk show hosts, Tea Party members etc for the actions of 1 person, even though NOBODY knows why he did it and whether or not he is conservative, liberal or neither. Just why is that?

you are right my friend,

thanks god she survived ,but its by the tea party and republican and fox ,this is not tea party ,this is a p...party ,drinking all republican and fox ,thats the reason their minds are infected with p virus,

,

Gov now Senator Manchin (D) used a gun to shoot the health care bill too.

Grunt...............you are clueless. And all you idiots howling for more gun bans....just remember, the police are minutes away when seconds count.

With thier voice comes power. The power to influence. They all understand this clearly. But with the power comes responsiblity. They are responsible and should be sued. They should be pursued by ambulance chaisng laywers into poverty.

They have the power. They understood that. They have responsiblity. That a little inconveient. They have no wisdom. Their wisdon is weak petty stupid and foolish. That is now much more apparent to all.

And they need to be held accountable for their complicity in the tragedy.

Hey bryan miller, could you be any more of a moron????

Grunt,

So Ken Olbermann and Rachel Maddow spew only peace and love?

Grunt,

It is very obvious that you are ignorant. This is not a time to jump to conclusions or speculate. Everyone in this country has a right to express their view even if you do not agree. However, nobody has the right to cause harm or use violence to make a point. This is disgusting! There are extreme factions of both political parties. If you choose to blame any news organization or media personality then you should blame them all. To suggest that this is the reason for some crazed idiot to cause this tragedy shows your lack of intellingence.

Mike1956.

What are you talking about? I have never witnessed so much hate as I have seen from the Republican Party and the Tea Partyever at any time in my life. Palin, Sharron Angle (who is another kook encouraging people to use the second amendment) Limbaugh, Beck are the biggest haters I have ever seen. OH yes, and throw Mitch McConnel, John Boner, Jim Demint, Haley Barbour and a few more creeps like that in the bunch.

I hope everybody read Toasty McGrath's post above. He is RIGHT ON.

While these 'hate mongers' are not good role models for our youth, to blame 'talking heads' for this shooting is a cop out excuse that will only lead to more free press rights taken away visa vie 'the patriot act'. Arizona has some of the most liberal gun laws in the country, but very few want to talk about gun control as a way to deter violence in this country.

I do agree that elected officials (at least) should be more responsible in their vitreous rhetoric, but to blame rhetoric for these kind of events is not only not constructive, it's detrimental to an open and free society and a free and unbiased press.

We haven't heard the end of this story, this '45 year old person of interest' they are seeking opens up a whole other can of worms. I doubt the shooter was driven by media pundits; more likely some terrorist plot. It reminds me of the mass shooting at that air force base a couple of years ago by the middle easterner. Very similar in that it was a rapid random shooting in a crowd in an attempt to kill as many people as possible.

So what do you think? Should we all just pick up weapons and start shooting each-other? That's where the BS Stops and the reality of the situation begins. The blood of Americans, by Americans, is spilled yet again. This time another Political figure is victimized. Face it. This Country's politics is so messed up, so divided, and so very wrong. It's right wing verses left wing. It's rich verses poor. It's hatred verses hatred. No one wins and we all lose. Have at it people. Go scratch each others eyes out. We have no one to blame but each and every one of us. To allow what we allow and to spew hatred as we all do. Losers every one of us. AMERICANS... I am embarrassed and deeply saddened by our loss... not proud to be an AMERICAN on this day. LOSERS... each and every one of us... Now go ahead you proud people make me look like you. Just start typing.....

This guy was neither democrat nor republican.

He suffered from alcohol poisoning and became a loner according to a classmate in high school and college (he dropped out of college). See also said he was liberal, not conservative.

His my space and youtube works mentioned nothing of Palin or the Tea Party. I saw those yesterday. He had a big issue over our monetary system not being backed by silver or gold and that we needed a currency. This is neither democrat, republican. He liked Mein Kampf and another overthrow the government work. This also is not Tea Party which simply wants reasonable government with less taxing and spending.

Facebook was already down, but plenty of fake information has surfaced. Making statements about Palin and other conservatives leadership being on there doesn't fit the other two sources and but no proof to back statements it and can only be taken as hearsay.

Good comment - DB Akron

Its to bad alot of these liberals on here don't see that way. They are to busy blaming Sarah Palin and other right wingers! They for got to blame Bush on this one!

Thank goodness the republicans have the house, if not you can tell that the leftists would push to pass the fairness doctrine and use this tragety as a tool.

@Indagroove and all other Republicians

Do you seriously believe the hate your party has spewed for the last 2 years beginning emidiately after Obama was sworn-in, has nothing to do with this? That the Tea Party causeing such an extreme political climate that it would give this sick and mentally ill man cause to become a political assassin? Own up to your own bad behavior, before you start to judge mine.

Do you think Obama calling the GOP enemies and Pelosi calling them communists has led to this banter.

This shooting was not a political event just a nut who needed any aganda he could find to make a statement that he was a lost and lonely individual. If it wasn't politics then it would have been anything else.

And no one actually knows if he followed any political party besides the one he invented in his head.

The fighting on this vine shows how people act and if one of them had the gun and the lack of sanity s/he just might shoot another one of you.

And havwe to agree with @DB here, also @phanthom.

Ultra-conservatism is to blame here. We pollute people's mind with so much talk about the tyranny of government. There are too many Republican politicians publicly advocating a forceful and violent take over of of democratically elected officials that some people actually believe their crap. These politicians should be held accountable for using violent rhetoric. Fox News and Co. are also at fault for exacerbating demagogues, misconceptions, and half-truths. As long as ultra-conservatism continues to advocate their principles using violent rhetoric such as war, armed militias, coup d'etat etc. there will be nutcases who will continue to kill democratically elected officials.
-Timothy McVay -sympathized with armed militias and wanted to destroy the Federal Government. (influence by conservatism)
-Eric Robert Rudolph -bombed Centennial Olympic Park, Lesbian Night club, and an abortion clinic (influenced by conservatism)
-Scott Roeder - pro-choice advocate shot and killed George Tiller MD while Dr. Tiller attended church. (influenced by conservatism)
-Arian Brotherhood - populate or prison system proclaiming a purity of an authentic race...

I could go on and on... my point is simple. Why are conservative politicians advocating taking back a democratically elected government by physical armed force when every day Americans can not even shout "fire" inside a crowded movie theater? Why can't I scream "bomb" inside an airport? Why do politician's and ultra-conservative networks get a free pass at advocating physical harm on other people?

Where does this story imply the gunman was targeting the congresswoman ?

"Authorities said Gifford, 40, was targeted at a public gathering by a man with a semiautomatic weapon around 10 a.m. Saturday outside a busy Tucson supermarket."

Pretty clear actually.... if you read it.

The police chief specifically stated that she was his target. There is no question about that according to eyewitnesses.

Where does this story imply the gunman was targeting the congresswoman ?

He specifically mentioned District-8 in you-tube videos, which she represented - not counting she was the first targeted. Also, before it was taken down, his Facebook page showed ties with the tea party - who are political in nature and utilize Palin as a mouth piece. This article doesn't mention a lot of things, doesn't mean they should be left out of the debate.

But, I agree, putting cross hairs on her web page insinuates violence for those with simple minds, and antics like that have no place in politics.

sharon angle must be pretty happy about now. Somebody just used a 'second ammendment solution'. Is Bloody jan brewer going to cut off the funding for the congresswoman's care??

Idiot

His motivation was not immediately known........

But the speculation is very definitive.

Well if the cops knew it then they did not properly protect her. I bet the security will be cranked up for all public officials now. A no attendance list and photos are typically distributed. How come the police did not anticipate this? It's not like this guy was some sort of closet case who just came out yesterday.

nothere

Funny that there's no mention of a Facebook page anywhere and yet you said it shows ties with the Tea Party. You wouldn't be "manipulating" the truth so you can make this all about the Tea Party, would you? It's been reported that he has extreme left views. He listed the Communist Manifesto as one of his "favorite books" on YouTube. I believe it's still there. Go look it up. That couldn't be any further away from the Tea Party.

Democrats created a map and used bullseyes to pinpoint the Republican legislators they wanted to eradicate. I don't see any mention of that on any of these vines. Why is that? Oh right. The media and every left wing sheep wants to make this about Sarah Palin and the Tea Party.

Open your eyes and get the facts before you start spewing garbage about something you know little if anything about. This guy was anti-government, anti-American and anti-people.

It's time for Congress to work together instead of worrying about making their party look better. Their pathetic high school rivalry attitude is spreading quickly. The local Student Council could do better than the people we have in there now.

Not a Palin fan here, but "targeting" and "shooting for" terms are used in every professional, social, and sporting environment where people are "gunning" for an objective. Not really cool, and quite honestly, it's a bit immature and emotional of you to drag something unralated into this tragedy.

Through Google Images: search for Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords' name and you'll see a picture of her firing an AK-74. Yes, it's also inappropriate to associate this tragedy with pro-firearms enthusiasts as Rep. Giffords was one of them.

Mark my words! You heard it here first!

How many leftist will use this as a tool in their 2012 election campains? Can you see the ads already?

This is how the left works, heck they even started printing stories with CASTRO remarks in them.

Ok, here are the facts. The tea party is a group of loud mouthed bullies, and it is time those of us with calmer views push back at them. They proudly march on Washington carrying guns, nooses, and other weapons. The signs (though often misspelled) promote their violent agendas and anti-government rhetoric. They encourage nut cases and unbalanced people to take up arms against the government. They shout and scream at politicians in public forums like uncivilized savages. It is time they and their leaders (yes, Sarah Palin, this means you) reflect on the extent of the damage their ugliness is doing to America. I am not sure they are capable of reflection since they seem to shoot from the hip first, scream, but rarely present a calm logical argument because they are soooooo "angry". Ok, now the country is fighting back. Tea Party fascists--don't tread on ME!

edna453 ....well said

According to the physician/eyewitness standing next to her, the gunman walked up and first approached and shot the congresswoman in the back/side of the head, and then began spraying gunfire at the crowd. Sounds like the target to me. The judge happened to stop in to say hi on his way home. He was no way the target. Also, the fact that her office was shot up right after the health care vote surely isn't totally co-incidental.

Don't Blame Govenor Palin for the far left taking the country in a direction the majority of Americans do not want to go. Americans are tired of the Government intruding more and more into their lives, eroding our freedoms and the capitalistic way of life. Capital, business, labor and freedom of religion is what has made this country great.

Bryan Miller you are an idiot! It is clear this person is crazy no matter who he killed and bringing up Sarah is just plain stupid!

Bloody Sarah Palin.

Olbermansadink,

Your name really cracked me up. I haven't seen the word 'dink' used since I was in 3rd grade! And as funny as I find your name I have to disagree with it. I have yet to see Olberman do anything except call "BULLSH/T!" on those trying to dish it out to Americans as steak and eggs- republican OR democrat! By and large he does that by throwing their own videotaped statements back in their two-faces. I see very little, if anything, to condemn him for, and he is most certainly not a 'dink'. Flush Rimbutt and Glenn Dreck would be a lot more believable, truthful and honorable if they used the "Dink's" method of journalism instead of propagandizing their viewers. No one can point to "Dink" Olberman's show and honestly accuse him of fear mongering or rabble rousing, whereas both Flush Rimbutt and Glenn Dreck would make Josef Goebbels proud with their use of his methods. I have listened to and/or watched all 3 of them and the contrast is stark and easily noticable. Give it a try.

Another classic case of hate spewing without thinking. I do not support Sarah Palin either but I swear I believe some of you Palin haters will not shut up and be satisfied until your stupid vitriol gets this woman killed. Is that what you want? Think about it, would you be happy then, feel proud? Geez, how far will you haters go?

more of these commycrats should see that perverting the constitution is sooooooooo wrong .some people left in this country take these documents and the founders fathers extremly seriously .un like commycrats perverting theses documents daily .

Edna and Kaleki;

Couldn't have said it better. It IS, more and more on the vine, posters that have seemed to have never out grown school yard thought processes and antics.

Instead of being a whacko that's anti-everything and pro me, me, me.... he's been manipulated by some adds, some words, and THAT caused him to go off? Not buying it... especially since when it counts, there IS no difference between Blue and Red. Notice jobs coming home, legislating towards such?

Me neither, and both are guilty.... face it, this guy is no different than those others have mentioned, Manson on up. Trying to make it more than it is is not only not using your head, but insulting to those involved.

The judge, afterall, WAS Republican, right?

"It is clear this person is crazy no matter who he killed and bringing up Sarah is just plain stupid!"

Maybe. Unless, of course, the 50 year old "person of interest" is found, has a connection to the shooting, and his views are made known.

hey 1960 yelling in the streets screaming at the top of your lungs instead of acting like a Amrican with the manners of a human being and the sympathy for the dead in injuryed for at least a minute instead of doing just what yu are accsuing others of just what you do? And instead of accusing Sarah Palin and The Tea Party and Republicans and so many others why dont you wait for facts and valid imformation instead of acting like a blood thirsty vilgilanty group looking to hang em hihg? First the insane man could of done this casue he hated the Easter Bunny and second by the by he stated he was a socilist and a communist and loved his favorite book Hitler penned My Kamp forgive my spelling. for those who critise peoples spelling and tell them they are not smart because their spelling is off. I type fast and some of these comment blogs do not have spell check and I have so much to state and go to other things to do in my life that are positive and like cry and pray for the wounded and they families who are hurting due to the loss of their loved ones. So all those who are just knee jerking and looking to join a vigilanty group just stop. Can we as Americans stop and begin to join together and find ways to love one another and remember we are all Americans and find common ground in that at the very least. Mr. Reid please stop acting like a gang leader stirriing up the country by using langague to aggravate political parties and then dont expect fall out. You sit of all people need to act like a leader not a gang member. Grow up sir.

I gotta say it again; views are just that, not something 99% or more of the population would go on a killing spree for, no matter how personal.

I'm going through foreclosure, started 2 years ago, and so far in now I don't know if I can get out; but, if my bank would've worked with me then, partial (80% of the payments), late payments (4 I tried were less than 10 hours late), I wouldn't be losing all, or facing it (never give up all hope).

Point is, it's aged me, stressed my wife and family, I've gotten so pizzed I go out and night and just walk, think, sleepless many times. Still, NEVER considered getting out an AK or such and blowing bankers away.

No matter what bullseyes Dems have used, crosshairs Palin used, I don't think this idiot has 1/8 the reason to go off that I would have, and again.... I've never even considered it.

When I was in high school, it was popular for the media and others to blame band A, B, or C for high schooler's suicides. Lawsuits even brought forth. Facts came to be, the kids were bent on it, just listened to their faves before going out, angst, whatever... but if their records skipped or cassette's eaten, they'd have played something else and still be gone.

If language is meaningless, then we can put crosshairs on a Sarah Palin target, yes? It works both ways.

I've seen pictures, bad to worse, of and/or about just about every celebrity, t.v. personality, news folk, local politicians and all the way up to the President. Cartoons, political and otherwise, missiles included, all any can imagine....

So, sure.... any can print or publish some picture as you depict, Ogie, but it's still in bad taste, and if someone acts on it, it's still not the pictures or wordings fault... it's the whack job that was gonna go off anyways, somewhere, sometime, somehow.

What if that one Congressman had played 'footsie' in the bathroom stall with Jeff Dahmer? Still politically motivated when found in the fridge or a drum?

This killer burned the American flag on YouTube. Hardly something that a member of the Tea Party or even the conserative movement would do. Add:

A 22-year-old woman in Arizona, Caitie Parker, claimed on her Twitter feed that she went to high school and college with the gunman, and was in a band with him. She described his politics in the past as "left wing, quite liberal, & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

Do you really think this left wing nut case was influenced by Sarah Palin? Do you people even care that the things you post are lies?

thanks god she survived ,but its by the tea party and republican and fox ,this is not tea party ,this is a p...party ,drinking all republican and fox ,thats the reason their minds are infected with p virus,

All of you posting comments like this make you look crazier than anyone out there. You can blame no one but the shooter and any possible accomplice. Let's be clear that we are all responsible for our own actions. We cannot go on blaming others for what we do.

Apparently it's working out petty well for her.

to all the liberals here

If the shooter was Muslim would you be condemning all Muslims?

Hey Ogie, what about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojWOWyHWj6M

So easy to blame everyone else except the person directly responsible. I am so amazed at how we like to point fingers if it helps our opinions or our agendas. Place the blame where it belongs; directly on the shooter. Period.

ain't that the truth?

Phantom -- I a liberal blamed all conservatives would you blame all liberals?

Are the ones that don't want to bring up Sarah Palin, Beck, and Limbaugh in this incident the same ones that want to bring up Pastor Wright?

Those calling this shooter a liberal are ludicrous. This "friend "of his that claimed he had liberal views would call Reagan, Bush, and McCain liberals. The fact that he went to this meeting with the intent to kill all those that associated with congresswoman Giffords rules out his liberal views. If he were truly a liberal nut case he would have went after John McCain.

"You are either with us or against us." G.W.Bush

What does Sarah Palin got to do with this?

In addition to all my rantings about the gubbermit and its issues, I'd like to reveal how terrible events like this make me feel for those involved. The 'What if that was my family' feeling is unavoidable. As much as it's easy to get riled over all the problems that upset me politically, and do so mostly because I have too much spare time these days, things like this show us what real problems look like. They put perspective in perspective.

Where does this story imply the gunman was targeting the congresswoman ?

He walked up behind her and at point blank range shot her in the back of the head then started firing into the crowd nuff said.

You are an ass. She was for the right to own weapons as should every American. To use this tragic moment to voice your political view shows just what kind of an ass you are. 10,000 sperm and you were the fastest?

Pray for the victims, and their families, and pray for this nation.

Bryan Miller- A communist pot smoking liberal shoots a kind of liberal and its Palins' fault! Please don't reproduce! I pay enough in taxes for dumb fu@ks like you!

i think you mean how's that target-y / shoot-y thing-y going for ya` eh'?

and...of course the right thinks he's a communist, etc. . .

Of course the FACT that he listed the Communist Manifesto has nothing to do with anyone believing he's a communist. Since you choose not to take the time to look up facts let me make it easy for you:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

L. Arata,

No, I would not blame all liberals. And if the shooter turns out to be a liberal or communist or fascists or whatever, I won't blame that group for this persons actions.

Just to clarify my opinion....I think someone should have taken a closer look at this guy when he was making death threats and going off in class. If someone would have taken the time to make sure he got the proper treatment this might not have happened. I don't believe he did this because of Sarah Palin or President Obama (both made statements about going to battle with the opponent). I believe this man was unstable. These deaths are due to a failure of the system.

@Edna453

Where is this map? I want to see it, because I have seen Sar-RAH's map and his Facebook page and I can confirm he strongly identified with the anti-government part of the Tea Party. Stop making bs excuses and then maybe we can talk on a normal level. (I do agree that is was a failure of the system, however.)

why is this post 'collapsed by the community'?

@In Michigan-90

Since he didn't have a Facebook page I doubt you saw it. He did, however, have a MySpace page that was taken down within minutes of identifying him. I doubt you saw that either. Did you know he was a truther? He made a YouTube video and burned the American flag. Does that sound like a tea partier to you? You post of "bs excuses" and yet FACTS are presented that show has "extreme left" views but you still say he's a tea partier. Something is wrong with that picture.

I posted a link to the map upvine. But since you're too lazy to find it I'll post it again.

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

They tend to keep people with severe brain injuries in a medically-induced coma for very long periods while their brain heals. The closest case I can think of was Bob Woodruff, who sustained considerably less injury to his brain that Giffords when he was hit by an IED in Iraq a couple of weeks after being named to the nightly anchor job at CBS. He was in a medically induced coma for around 37 days or so.

There will be no complete recovery for this lady. It is unlikely that she will be anywhere near cognitively intact or even have eyesight. A temple-to-temple shot is one that is actually seen quite a bit in both suicides and execution style shootings. There is a significant percentage of people who survive, but with huge cognitive and physical impairment and often blindness. A 9mm slug at close range does a lot of damage.

The forebrain is kind of the "steering wheel" of the brain and controls our conscious actions, language, recognition, memory, etc. The optic nerves enter the brain in that area as well. The big problem is that the thin bone at the temple shatters pretty thoroughly and adds a lot of shrapnel (and damage) to the wound.

Chris....thank you.

Boehner says normal House business this week is postponed to focus on any necessary actions in the shooting aftermath.

Yes, they all want time to cover their a$$es because they are afraid that they will be next after ignoring the wishes of the people who elected them to office.

During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.

"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman.

Really? Are you that ignorant and blind? Maybe the assassin nut-job wouldn't have thought of using a gun if it weren't suggested to him via these fundraisers and websites. Get real, people!

Notice how the left takes no blame? but blames the right! It is their finger on the trigger taking this country in the direction its going

stop it stop it stop it cant you folks even stop acting like heathens for a minute or a day. My gosh Americans we just had another horrible tradgey. Rep Gifford did not deserve this nor did the Judge or the nine year old or any one else the died on the horrible day. or any of the wounded. Lets stop and support our fellow Americans in thoughts and prayer and no knee jerk reaction. the man who did this was insane he could of done this cause he hated the Easter Bunny. He was insane people . Guns do not get off the table and kill a person people kill people. And Rep Gifford has a long way to go to recover to some type of life. This man and if he had assistance this man was a socialist and self confessed communist and loved Hitler self penned book My Kamp forgive the spelling, so hate me due to my spelling gosh I type fast and some blogs do not have spell check and I do have a life . So stop screaming at one another untill you get all the facts it is not republicans or tea party or Sarah Palin or Santa Claus, I have made up my mind that from 1960 until now people have gone into the street yelled at the top of their silly lungs to see if they could change things and and the cildren of those adult watched and they now copy that behavior and learned no manners or any other way to resolve issues. Just yell and accuse someone anyone . Shame on those 1960 people I am so sad and knew then as a young person that it was wrong and still to this day know that 1960 behavior was going to change how America behave and I hope that my age group would do better then that. Sad it did not get better it got worse. The only hope is that parants of children now teach the littel ones differently and manners and respect and listen and cooperate and so many other good things. and when to fight . I am not a wimp I will stand my ground hard when it is right but I will not just go out in the streets and start screaming cause so and so is doing it. I use my brain,

Some want to try to blame the right for this, so it would seem an out-spoken lefty would be responsible if some whacko posts interests in said out-spoken lefty's views on his or her Facebook page, now the left is indeed responsible, or at least that individual, right?

Get real.... doesn't make sense no matter which shoe the foot's on. Mel Gibson went off on a rampage against Jews, was made public, but no one that liked him prior went off and killed some Jews. He just lost popularity. But, when it comes to politics blame rather than personal responsibility runs rampant.

You got it, Pine.

I have never heard a Conservative admit to doing anything wrong even when it was obvious that they were wrong. They always blame someone else for their errors.

On the flip side I have heard many Democrats admit to being responsible for a wrong act. If they are wrong they own up to it and move on.

It’s alinsky tactics , blame first to smear. Then when facts show up demand no one should talk about it and everyone should calm down. Shame on all of you that would dare use this murderous act to attack your political opponents. The left is truly mentally deranged.

Larry, - If you are listening to only liberal bias sources, you will never see the conservatives admit they are wrong. That would never fit the image they paint. The Republican base is rather intollerant of truely dispicable behavior by it's Representatvies. As with all political persuasions, there are die-hards that admit being wrong. Here’s partial list of Republican wrong doers and how they handled their situations.

Gingerich admitted doing wrong – Resigned

McCain – admitted doing wrong in the S&L crisis – was chided as being young and just making a mistake and allowed to continue his political career.

Nixon refused to admit he did anything wrong – Resigned

Reagan – admitted his perception of arms for hostages was incorrect – apologized.

Governor Sanford of SC – admitted his affair – was able to show he had reimbursed most of the travel expenses – he paid a fine for his use of the state credit card for the incident and finished his term.

Palin – disputed travel cost in Alaska as okay the way the law was written. Actually the investigators agreed, but that her use really fell outside the unwritten intent of the law. Palin agreed to pay the travel expenses – probably because the investigation said they would prosecute and risk losing the case if she didn’t. Most people didn’t look beyond the fact that they wanted the money or would prosecute if it wasn’t paid. Palin did not admit to the abuse – nor was required to – nor would be prosecuted for it. Her abuse was not keeping close enough tabs on Todd’s activities.

Alberto Gonzales & Rove – denied the charges they were wrong on firing the DA’s. They fought and all charges were dismissed.

Tom DeLay – campaign finance infractions. Denied any wrong doing and was cleared Federally. He lost in his state case and is currently in appeal. The prosecutor in the case took the case to 21 judges before one accepted the case. By Texas campaign finance law, he probably will lose.

There were about 3 or 4 Republicans caught in sex scandals All but one admitted the wrong doing Two resigned, one lost his re-election bid. Ensign was cleared federally, but his behavior is still questionable.

How in the world does one follow this statement...

Shame on all of you that would dare use this murderous act to attack your political opponents.

With this?...

The left is truly mentally deranged.

WTF?

Actually, Bohner(?) was acting truly ignorant when he stated he "Knew for a Fact" Obummer was a natural born citizen. That stupidity aside, i've head Plenty of times where republicans have admitted mistakes, but Very Few times Liberals, or the new "chic" term, "progressives" have admitted to any mistake. They certainly do Brag a lot, though. Personally i doubt they understand what damage they've done. I also believe giffords was shot Because she didn't conform to the "Progressive's" ideas. Vindictive as they are, i'd be very surprised if somehow this kid turned out to be anything other than mentally incompetent AND a liberal idiot. Not to say some lib didn't plant the thought in his walnut.

Sunday is a day for prayer for Christians let us pray for our country and our fellow Americans fighting for their lives this day and for the souls of those lives lost.

The Promoters of Hate make excuses and hide using the thought that this was the act of a lunatic acting on his own. Never acknowledging their promoting the hysteria of an atmosphere of impending doom for the nation if elected officials act in a humane and moderate conservative manner (national health care only one example). Remember “The Head Stomper”? I hope you were able to see the photo of the stomper with his arm around the gleaming Ron Paul. This was after the heading stomping of that little girl, both smiling even gleaming, basking in the some finely filtered color photo of the professional photographer. NO shame only promotion and a special photo with the newly elected representative of the American people. An American well win a life time gift of a one on one photo, with the long arm of the stomper around the shoulders of the representative of the American people, as his just reward. Yes look up the photo see them smiling, gleaming, their facial expressions of mutual affection, favorable expressions of amusement looking so pleasurable in each others company. By this act (Paul) the little coward Paul with the big bad dude, the head stomper of little women with her heads resting on hard cement sends a message, maybe at least a subliminal (actually a condoning) message that stomping on the head of a little girl’s skull resting on cement is just fine. This represents you and I whether we condone the act or not the photo and office holder represents you and I unless we protest the photo. Ron Paul is truly a representative of the entire nation once able to fashion the laws we must live under. It is called a representative Democracy, yes he is a direct representative of his district but by virtue of his office he effects the entire nation, that would include you and I. What he does effects you and I, yes I am repetitive on purpose the message never gets through it never ever reaches the conscious mind of the warped conscientious mind set (ethical and moral) of this populace this generation of The American people.

Mrs. Gifford may survive while at least 6 dead and others are in critical condition. She was one of many that the vicarious murderer Palin put a rifle "scope cross hairs" onto to her district, on a district map of the United States. You would be naive, unacknowledged maybe just not a "worldly" (no crime in that) person not to take the implication of such an act from a national political figure that relishes in killing as something other than a call for action than what is intensively suggested (murder and mayhem). We can down play this as to be the interpretation of the reader only (the shooter) and no overt call for murder is mentioned. The symbols (speak for themselves, come on now), the actual killings as filmed and shown throughout the nation of this self-promoting money hound (Palin) killing harmless animals for sheer pleasure from a helicopter, not even doing the work of a real hunter (Palin killing from a helicopter) is what it is. What manner of real game hunter is this? Well the question is what is it? I suspect most of America has a difficult time wrapping their heads around a real hunter and a pleasure seeking sadistic gratifying killing from a helicopter and confuse this as though a real game hunter was at work and not a sadistic killing machine (Palin) seeking self-aggrandizement. So flimsy a façade and so gullible the weak minded this ladies and gentleman is no hunter only a sadistic pleasure seeking killer.

So tonight only 6 dead and the congresswoman may survive after a dire prognosis, which always in my experience is a precursor to an announcement of death. I read those, as Palin have, have temporarily taken down the nuances to kill these congress members she and others have singled with the symbol of a riflescope cross hairs upon the congressional districts they have been elected to represent. They, as Palin, now try this subterfuge this concealment of their true persona that which is dear and an inner part of their being (they for the time being try to fool you take them down, they never existed). Why do they now take them down? So a copycat murderer won't see their covert call for murder? Cowards, that now hide who and what they stand for: what values, morals and standards of decency they promote. The kind of people they really are.

So the American public is again hoodwinked over so forever to be lead to the unreal, their specialty is dealing in the unreal the façade of humane interest in the American worker spiraling downward to levels of living matched only in third world countries. This is Sunday, a day of prayer for Christians and a day for somber self introspection of what we have become and focus on the public forces that propel our national psych into the mindless menace of violence that I will print excerpts from over the next few days or in my posts, do not fret I only post a few posts they seem always to be as mere expressions of myself as a mirror of the reality as I interpret such. I believe our minds are part of this world and reflect the world; we create our world with our minds. In part, the world is inert matter our minds are the creative force to mold this matter and this society to what is noble and just or to let others as those that call for our division to lead us and do the thinking for you. I suggest we, as independent Christians re-read the words of Jesus, in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (the Holy Bible) to only grasp what you have forgotten where his words as we live our lives in the cacophony of phony bumper sticker political slogans meant only to appeal to our darker side not to the better angels of our natural nature. I feel as if I could write so much more but what is the use? All this time the American people still are full of hatred for ghosts, scapegoats to take the heat from those that oppress the American middle class.

Just look at the work of the newly elected congress and see how again the American people have been duped and no outcry from those that these charlatans have by fraud to win their votes and thus now in our highest national administrative offices. They so brazenly do exactly the opposite of what put them into office and not a sound of protest from my fellow citizens. This the subject matter for a lengthy post but not today. The attack on the American middle class is for another day.

Today is not a day for politics lets leave that aside for the time being I will post only a small excerpt illustrating our penchant for mindless violence from a speech of Robert F Kennedy with heavy editing, changing the speech in significant ways and adding or deleting segments as I see fit. The speech is only my outline, my working template to express my feelings on this site and this is our right as members of, I should say members in good standing as I have earned a certain status form The NewsVine (don't ask me what the supportive email exactly meant to convey). So I utilize my right to post and you have the right not to read anything I post as I do of yours. You have no right to silence me as I have no right to silence you for innocuous words meant to promote peace and love of our fellow Americans. My posting is to promote harmony and not murder, are not offensive sentiments are harmless words excepting those whose stock in trade is hatred, they will most certainly find fault and take great umbrage.

"This a time of shame and sorrow. It is not a day for politics. Lets speak tonight of the mindless menace of violence in America which again stains our land and every one of our lives. It is not the concern of any one race. The victims of the violence are black, White, Latino, rich and poor, young and old, famous and unknown. They are, most important of all, human beings whom other human beings loved and needed. NO – Matter where one lives or what one does – can be certain who will suffer from some senseless act of bloodshed. And yet it goes on and on and on in this country of ours

Why? What has violence ever accomplished? What has it ever created? No martyr's cause has ever been stilled by any assassins' bullet.

No wrongs have ever been righted by riots and civil murders. A sniper is only a COWARD, not a hero; and an uncontrolled, uncontrollable mob is only the voice of madness, not the voice of reason. Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily – whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, one punk or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence – whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another woman or man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and her children, the whole nation is degraded." - RFK

My deepest condolences go to the loss of all the families, a nine-year old little girl among the dead. She was a newly elected office holder, her fellow students elected her. I think of that act (her death), the effect on these children, what must they be thinking of our country tonight. May the victims of this senseless act rest in peace and their deaths serve to expose and silence those that call out covertly for murder and harm.

RIP: to the victims may your deaths not be in vain let us please take heed

Good Day and Good Luck

Ultra-conservatism is to blame here. We pollute people's mind with so much talk about the tyranny of government. There are too many Republican politicians publicly advocating a forceful and violent take over of of democratically elected officials that some people actually believe their crap. These politicians should be held accountable for using violent rhetoric. Fox News and Co. are also at fault for exacerbating demagogues, misconceptions, and half-truths. As long as ultra-conservatism continues to advocate their principles using violent rhetoric such as war, armed militias, coup d'etat etc. there will be nutcases who will continue to kill democratically elected officials.
-Timothy McVay -sympathized with armed militias and wanted to destroy the Federal Government. (influence by conservatism)
-Eric Robert Rudolph -bombed Centennial Olympic Park, Lesbian Night club, and an abortion clinic (influenced by conservatism)
-Scott Roeder - pro-choice advocate shot and killed George Tiller MD while Dr. Tiller attended church. (influenced by conservatism)
-Arian Brotherhood - populate or prison system proclaiming a purity of an authentic race...

I could go on and on... my point is simple. Why are conservative politicians advocating taking back a democratically elected government by physical armed force when every day Americans can not even shout "fire" inside a crowded movie theater? Why can't I scream "bomb" inside an airport? Why do politician's and ultra-conservative networks get a free pass at advocating physical harm on other people?

bush mounted an illegal war against an innocent people to show how macho he was.

/Politicaleducationfail

to what, no nation has attacked us since pearl harbor

/UShistoryfail

im sure the ancestors of rush and beck were there screaming that those do-gooders against burning witches should have their eyes poked out. just like they thought the pinkertons should shoot the coal miners, or the kkk should lynch the blacks

Just a little inflammatory, at least you didn't compare them to Nazis like everyone else.

You should go back to school.

Right wing politicians, including Giffords' opponent, call for murder, "refreshing with blood", saying "bullets work where ballots don't" and the vicious, vacuous Sarah has gunsights on democrats.

If you're right about that, then Mohammed's slaughter, torture and rape at Khaybar (see: Bhukari, Tabari, others in hadith) and koran's calls to war has nothing to do with 9-11, or with the the shooter at Ft. Hood.

la Scooter Tramp; with you all the way.

Sorry, other 2, but I just can't believe that way of thinking is prevalent in America, if so, it's scary.... refer to my posts 3.27 and 5.11.

Bullets better than ballots, or whatever? Love a link to that one, and what group or individual said it.

Scooter Tramp,

It is funny how quickly we get onto the crazed lone shooter track. Remember Oklahoma City and that 2nd person of interest they were supposedly looking for- the guy with middle eastern looks. You can still find the police sketch on the net. MLK Jr's killer had Raoul, JFK had the man on the grassy knoll and at least one other "Oswald" (a fat guy at that!) photographed in Mexico City's USSR Embassy). There always seems to be some sort of track that points at the CIA or some other entity. I wonder if they'll find this man "of interest" and who he'll be.

Here ya go, ModerationInAllThings:

Tea Party radio host being connected to bomb threat that closed Florida schools

[Right-wing radio host Joyce Kaufman] Kaufman has come under press scrutiny for the following statements she made at a rally on July 4th:

"And then the Founding Fathers were ever so brilliant -- and I don't care how this gets painted by the mainstream media, I don't care if this shows up on YouTube, because I am convinced that the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave a Second Amendment. And if ballots don't work, bullets will."

Kaufman had also promised to take a group of people up into "the hills of Kentucky" to engage in an armed rebellion if the Republicans did not win in the 2010 midterms. Kaufman has also called for the hanging (literally) of illegal immigrants found in the United States.

I'll bet they gave him a gun card no questions asked! Hot damn! Yee hawww

hey smack jack ass i heard he listened to one of my favorites- Jimmy Hendricks wow thats bad.

And now as we find out more. he Acted alone. Was a Supporter of the Representative and had attend a Fund Rasier for her in 2007 as Evidenced by a letter Addressed to him . from her thanking him for attending.. . there is no doubt that he found out that some of her Views.. Like Reading the constitution on the floor of the House. Supporiting the gun Rights of Ameican Citizens, coming out against ths Administration for Suing Arizona, Wanting more Troops on the border, didnt fit his own beliefs. He is Follower of the Communist manifesto, a follower of the Conscious Dream Crowd a left wing Belief. he hates God.

he is a left wing Liberal NUT JOB

Ultra-conservatism is to blame here. We pollute people's mind with so much talk about the tyranny of government. There are too many Republican politicians publicly advocating a forceful and violent take over of of democratically elected officials that some people actually believe their crap. These politicians should be held accountable for using violent rhetoric. Fox News and Co. are also at fault for exacerbating demagogues, misconceptions, and half-truths. As long as ultra-conservatism continues to advocate their principles using violent rhetoric such as war, armed militias, coup d'etat etc. there will be nutcases who will continue to kill democratically elected officials.
-Timothy McVay -sympathized with armed militias and wanted to destroy the Federal Government. (influence by conservatism)
-Eric Robert Rudolph -bombed Centennial Olympic Park, Lesbian Night club, and an abortion clinic (influenced by conservatism)
-Scott Roeder - pro-choice advocate shot and killed George Tiller MD while Dr. Tiller attended church. (influenced by conservatism)
-Arian Brotherhood - populate or prison system proclaiming a purity of an authentic race...

I could go on and on... my point is simple. Why are conservative politicians advocating taking back a democratically elected government by physical armed force when every day Americans can not even shout "fire" inside a crowded movie theater? Why can't I scream "bomb" inside an airport? Why do politician's and ultra-conservative networks get a free pass at advocating physical harm on other people?

nice try, but ain't gonna fly.

Anyone trying to justify the vitriol in this country will continue to be marginalized...and marginalized now by the thinking adults whatever their political leanings.

"nice try, but ain't gonna fly"

WHAT? So once again the left disregards facts and clamps down to speculation and fiction.

He did not know the judge was there or who he was. He was after Giffords. He was after Giffords because he had been programmed by:

Sarah Palin

"Don't retreat, reload!" and a picture of democrats in a gunsight.

Sharron Angle

"If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies."

Joyce Kaufman

"If ballots don't work, bullets will."

Michele Bachmann

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

People like him listen to demagogues. And if the demagogues win, they become heroes. That is what happened in Fascist Italy. It happened in Nazi Germany. It happened in Iran where today there is a president like this shooter in Arizona.

After reading some of these inflammatory and hate filled accusatory posts (most being of the anti-tea party, anti-conservative genre) I begin to wonder if radical liberalism isn't akin to radical Islam. I see the same paranoia, the same rush to judgement, the same cherry picking of facts and the same hatred.

I guess after reading some posts that we're lucky that more tragic incidents like this haven't happened.

Personally, I think the reason this woman was targeted, was the fact that to this lunatic, she represented the goverment and was an accessable target, nothing more. I doubt that he relates anything good to either side, democrat or republican and would have been just as content to shoot a republican had they been where he could get to them. Had he not been able to get to a political figure, he may just as well went after postal workers. There is no way to figure out what is inside of this kids head. On another note, just how did he shoot so many in a crowd without somebody jumping this guy and the rest piling on? What has happened to the willingness for people to come to the aid of those in need.

Ellen if he was just after Giffords why did he not quit shooting when he shot her in the head? This guy is crazy. I don't care if he was a republican or a democrat or an independent. He was going to shoot anybody in the government sector and she just happened to have a town hall meeting in the city that he lives in.

He is a sicko...plain and simple. This has nothing to do with Palin, the tea party or republicans. He should have gotten some mental help while he was growing up and after he kept getting kicked out of school after school.

Don't know the context of the partial quote from this Bachman woman, but 'The tree of liberty and blood.....' goes back to the Founding Father's, wish I could think of which off hand but, oh well.

Palin's comment obviously goes toward her persona and roots, not to be taken literally.

Angle and Kaufman, don't know their positions of importance but will look into it; again, context and full transcripts take time, and these may be stressing points moreso than a call to Civil War.

I'd again refer you to my above posts; this isn't partisan, blue and red both have said 'this and that' over the years, and this killer would've done what he did no matter what... no Palin, no Obama.

If his big interest had been the local museum, library, whores or night clubbers it would be the same news, different topic. Those that aren't going to do this no matter what aren't 'pushed' towards it by simple propaganda.

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.

~Thomas Jefferson

Those posters busily engaging in the political speculations, finger pointing mode are conveniently overlooking some of the characteristics of the shooter and the past behaviours of others of his ilk.

It seems this nut had targeted Giffords in the past and was following her, went out of his way to speak to her on a previous occassion and made a statement that she was essentially dumb. Once he got going with the gun I doubt very much that he was inclined to quit, probably enjoying himself too much. That he was taken down by bystanders rather than caught in a shoot-out with police is probably a disappointment to him.

This seems more like a case of stalking and obsession. Reminds me very much of Hinckley and other nut cases obsessed with a particular person or celebrity. Remember John Lennon?

Javondure

What she would actually be in, is a medication induced coma on life support while they deal with her brain swelling. If you haven't worked ICU then you can't picture the condition she's really in following that type of trauma.

interesting train of thought ( or lack of one ) you didn't read the article , yet you comment on a headline? Why?

I didn't read the article until after I said that same comment to myself, but I agree with javondure. I had read earlier another article and watched the video from her doctor, which basically said the same thing. rescuedog isn't that the same thing? what is the difference?

Whether this shooting is a direct result of Palin and the others, there are many unstable people out there who are conservative as there are liberals. When you have this type of inflammatory rhetoric, and vitriolic language, which many times is dishonest, to raise passions of your followers...i.e. death squads, then you are responsible if a person acts out, whether it's someone who assassinates a political figure or burns down a church. I hope this will give them pause, and cause them to tone it down and have some honest discourse, and give thanks if he didn't act out for this reason. When a political figure makes the statement that "if we don't change things through the ballot box, then we may have to do it with the second amendment" Do you think that's appropriate? I find it amazing that people on these boards defend this type of speech.

palin, beck, limbaugh, savage, hannity; all share the blame... But remember, this is what they want...

Grunt, unless you're saying that well known conservative talk-show hosts were directly involved in the attempted assassination of a congresswoman, Rush Limbaugh and others have no responsibility for this. The man who held the gun bears -and deserves- the full brunt of the blame. I agree that this was a tragedy, and I too will be praying for the families

Sounds much like BIG tobacco trying to escape culpability for causing lung cancer in people who smoke..."hey we didn't do it...it must have been other environmental insults or the persons own genetics...."

Sorry, but Palin, her tea bagger express, and radio/television hosts who spew hate-filled sermons are ALL have culpability here. Of course they will never admit that

lets also count all the flaming rhetoric that is coming out of the left also. turn on msnbc and listen to the hate that is being spewed on that station. I can't even listen to Chris Mathews, or to the Ed show, or Rachel Maddow. they all spew there own brand of hate. dividing this country. Glen Beck is the most civil of them all. No where does he ever say to take up arms, he just connects the dots of the current president and the nuts that he has been involved with from the sixties that used to fire bomb police stations and such. Acorn mean much to you all? besides Mien Kompf being read by this nut job, and some of the other marxist books he had o his favorites list, yet you tie him to the tea party movement, which mostly except for a few examples, have been a peaceful movement. YOU CAN'T BLAME OTHERS FOR THIS NUTS ACTIONS!!! Just as you can't blame someone for taking action about all the hate people here spew about the tea party. get a life people.

I blame Oberman, Mathews, Scholts, Maddow and the others with their constant hate against this country.

You cannot even read the constitution in the congress with liberals going off the deep end.

Danceman, who is it here that is quickly wanting to place blame and hatred without any proof or facts to back it up?

Remember, with leftists it is not the facts it is the seriousness of the charge that counts in politics, and you can see the results right here on newsvine.

you forgot a few names: obama, pelosi, reed, frank, feinstein, boxer,...couric (katie)

No, they do. The families of all the dead, and the survivors should file a lawsuit against every single one of them. Ruin them all. Take every cent they have and leave them begging on the street.

Exactly. Just recently Palin said "Don't retreat - Reload," on top of having the cross-hairs on the districts of people whose beliefs she disagrees with on her website. And it's not only her using violent imagery as a means of confronting people who have beliefs different than hers. Other Republicans do this too. Michelle Bachman in 2009 said she wanted her constituents "armed and dangerous," Sharon Angle reminds her followers about using their "Second Amendment remedies" as a means of responding to beliefs they dislike, and Congressman West's Joyce Kaufman said "If ballots don't work, bullets will." I don't understand why these comments are not condemned. Regardless of who this mentally ill person's influences were (the gunman), there is no doubt that repeatedly using language like this contributes greatly to creating an atmosphere where resorting to violence against those who disagree with you seems acceptable. And I resent the heck out of it when I hear these Republicans (and there is not one Democrat who has used violent imagery language like this - point to one, quote one!) using these sorts of words.

Thousands of people have died since our country began defending our country so we all have the right to our opinions, and the freedeom to express those views. Members of my extended family have died in wars defending this country, and to hear Republicans carelessly using violent images as a means of responding to different opinions, as if it is cute and clever and appropriate, is extremely disturbing. Then it is all replayed on Fox News endlessly.

To say Democrats "use their own brand of hate," please quote statements. Their "own brand of hate" does not include making statements approving the use of violence - "reloading" a gun - using their "Second Amendment remedies" - "if ballots don't work bullets will" - be "armed and dangerous" etc. etc. -- as the Republicans have. Quote the phrases you are referring to, and let's see if there is any comparison. I cannot understand why, when Republicans make these kinds of statements, it is not condemned by other Republicans.

Regardless of what this nutjob's views are (the shooter), they were cooked in today's current political climate, which is one where the Republicans use violent images as a means of response. It just colors everything and filters into all beliefs. And for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could possibly defend such language.

@George-2891602 - you forgot a few names: obama, pelosi, reed, frank, feinstein, boxer,...couric (katie)

-----------------------------------------------------

Liar.

Emily,

Great post! I listen to both sides on TV, radio, and in print, but I cannot recall any visual imagery used by those more on the liberal side to inspire a call to action by the public, that involves resorting to physical violence and assination. If the left did this, I for one wouldn't support it. I have heard Gunny Bob on am radio state that "all Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan need to have their heads blown off in the sand". Next he claims that he "doesn't believe in bigotry, hatred, or violence...." Hmmm....what an exact definition of an oxymoron!

Palin, Beck, Hannity, Limpballs, and other politicians who have used this visual immagery to enhance their hate filled sermons and "call to action" are irresponsible AND culpable for at the very least, INSPIRING others to commit violence. They must change their tone...it's very disturbing and anti-American. It's disgusting how their supporters DO NOT SEE the connection between their visual imagery, words, tone, hate filled sermons and this shooting....unbelievable.

Mr. Boner, McLoser, Rove, and Cantor, you must steer your party in a different direction. The first amendment has been hijacked by you and your goons!

Politics as a business. Fire the political consultancy. Becuase they obvisouly have no idea about what is important. There is the drive to divide and conquer and this is the path it takes us. Propaganda works. Political consultancy is working for their next job and to preseve the revenue stream. It should not be confused with wisdon, leadership or stewardship of the country. Fire them. Fire them all. Fire them now.

Politics as sport. Political talk for the sport of it. Too bad that they have real influence but no accountablility. I think class action law suit against those seekingto divide us is needed. Sue them for their complicity in this crime. Sue them, sue them all sue them now. Sue their networks. Bankrupt the fools before they lead to our complete downfall.

Politics driven by the dollar motive. If it is all about a buck and nothing more then it just makes us all pimps or whores. And there has to be more about the greater good in the USa than being a pack of pimps ans whores. The political consultancy drives the message. They need to be held accountable too.

very encouraging that Bonier agreed to postpone any legislative action this week, particularly on the (symbolic) repeal of the health care law. Don't know how long the haitus will last, but very encouraged the house is taking a breather and letting things cool down.

dancinman. do you really believe that they want people dead? what a small brain you must have. please seek help!!!!!!!!!

In case you haven't noticed, representative Giffords, who was shot, was a Democrat so for you revisionists to say that Chris Mathews or Olbermann or any moderate/left wingers are to blame makes you particularly delusional.

Furthermore, Sarah and her mama grizzly garbage of "don't retreat, reload" and telling men to "man up" constantly, encourages lunatics like the one in Arizona on Saturday to feel empowered to act on his/her violent impulses. Politicians speaking publicly should tone down their rhetoric and consider that there are those in our society who are prone to violence and should not be encouraged to harm anyone.

I pretty much said what JP said there why did they collapse my comment? Other than you hate mongers seem to flood the internet with your hateful views but god forbid if someone remotely appears to be Liberal its shut down?

So the Republicans can get away with this for eight years? How long has O'bama been in office and you give him a difficult time of it? So its been 8 plus?

Plus the mere mention that the shooter was a gasp "atheist". Just proves that the Religious Nuts have taken over. Why do you think England didn't want you? So you come over here and cause trouble for the people that already live here and annilate the American Indian to near extinction?

My name means Daughters of the American Revolution. My ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. But no your warped minds have to make it about some Revolution or anti-government meaning. That is how absolutely bonkers this country has gotten. Fables have more meaning over reason. Now there is probably more religions in this country than schools. And they're not religions they're cults!

Now since we found out the kid was mentally disturbed is the media going to start attacking people with mental illness? FYI religious people mental illness is a brain disorder like cancer eats away at your organs. Its not a moral weakness or some kind of demonic possesion. But you might understand that if you took biology. And anymore of this flogging of anyone over this shooting is not going to bring this country together. You bullya55holes.

Because your American forefathers are turning in their graves because of your uneducated misguidance of what you think they died and fought for. Conservatists want smaller Gov't. not welfare states,, not BIG Brother telling us where to go for healthcare, NOT Taking OVER PRIVATE bus., not telling you how to live your life period. We are about FREEDOM, that includes freedoms from OPPRESSION, that of the such these socio-communist, which, we have been fighting against, since the inception of this GREAT Country, even the likes of, Mr. Obama and his anti establishment cronies he serves. Also England did want us. So they sent their troops to try and takeover this country as well !! Daaa... Read your history for petesake, get a clue. There are many, many dictator style governments still available for those of you who can't seem to take care of or support yourselves out there, they are prbly. more than happy to have more mindless people that can not do for themselves so they have to leech off the hard working people to survive. Hmmm I actually think N. Korea would be a great start. You may be the great great grand daughter of someone who fought to help create this greatest nation on earth,(also using that identifier, also indicates you are trying to still leech from someone elses works) but they dont want your attachment. They died for a much more Noble cause and that is also what gives you these freedoms of expression and other things we are allowed to do no other country on earth offers. Those freedoms are why your forefathers died for the FREEDOMS, of RELIGION, speech The Right to bare arms, Free elections, etc... all the rights that you and your kind are trying to take away from us... Another Daaaa placed here I am sorry you can read words but your comprehension is sorely lacking.... you need to read up on the people that you elect and stand up for so your not just standing there with egg on your face when the fact that this guy you elected to the highest position on the planet, just happens to be Anti American, has the religious pastor who not only baptized his kids but sat in the guys church over 20 years, who Spouses nothing But Anti American propaganda and prays to Damn the United States of America. GET A CLUE you want to know why these other people think you must mean some other revolution... the haters here are the super leftist socio-commie radicals once AGAIN if you really could read with even a little comprhension you would see where it is coming from. Break out your ancestors abbacus, do an experiment on your own, and count the number and document them, as to be able to refer back to them so you can back it up see where they come from have a great revolutionary day

Inane remark.

From sarah palin's facebook page, dated March 28, 2010 -- three days after the crosshair image was published:

"In the battle, set your sights on next season’s targets! From the shot across the bow – the first second’s tip-off – your leaders will be in the enemy’s crosshairs­, so you must execute strong defensive tactics. You won’t win only playing defense, so get on offense! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons – your Big Guns – to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember it takes blood, sweat and tears to win."

the revisionis­m just ain't gonna work. the internet remembers.

http://www­.facebook.­com/note.p­hp?note_id­=375184908­434

Is that clear enough?

The assassin's favorite reads? The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. What a right wing nut!

Sure is! I do think we are giving far too much relevence to Sarah Palin. This is a formor Alaska Gov who is a quiter. Nobody knew who the hell she was prior to John McCain's aneurysm(I only assume this to be the case as his VP pick was...well you know what I mean). I respected the hell out of McCain by the way. She is for what I can see a good mother although someone else should have named her children. Yes, perhaps she needs to be reeled in but she does not have the power some in here think she does. A rational person would not have looked at her website and decided to go on a shooting campaign. The real issue should be gun control. Half the people shouting the 2nd ammendment could not tell me or anyone else what it actually says.

This had nothing to dowith the TEA Party or Sarah Palin. This guy burned an American flag on YouTube. No conservative would do that! He is a left wing radical.

Also:

A 22-year-old woman in Arizona, Caitie Parker, claimed on her Twitter feed that she went to high school and college with the gunman, and was in a band with him. She described his politics in the past as "left wing, quite liberal, & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."

The hatred and outright lies being spewed here by liberal posters is outrageous. That they use this woman's tragedy for their political posturing is bad enough. That they use the act of one of their own to slander Sarah Palin and the TEA Party is beyond contempt.

Tom

The page has been taken down. Someone is doing some serious internet CYA.

Be ready for a whole new bunch of anti gun laws being pushed at us from the libers.

What I find despicable about the whole thing is how the Tea Party did a "fund raiser" recently where they hung up pictures of this woman for people to shoot at for a donation. They even list her as one of their "targets" and were even showing her location (and other "target's" locations) on a web page that they had up as recent as yesterday.

There is no doubt in my mind where this guy got this idea from and who else is responsible.

P.S. - Before you jump to party line assumptions: I am neither a republican nor a democrat. I prefer to think for myself.

some seriously ignorant rants from the torys....

It's still extremely disgusting that people are using a tragedy for political gain. Obviously Palin's page wasn't meant literally, any more than any politician means it literally when they talk about "big guns". Until we can read people's minds, we have to be vigilant, NOT blaming innocent people for something that we can't prevent. My question is Why wasn't there Some form of security present? No matter who the politician is, Some Nutball can, if allowed, just walk up and get stupid. Was this intentional on the victim's part? Doubtful. Was this something People Should take into account? Yes, But NOT by depriving others of thier rights. Instead, like with a suicide, we need to watch for signs in friends and acquiantances, advise them against things if it appears something may be wrong, and as a concerned citizen, Call Someone if it looks like they might be getting ignorant. For the Bandwagon types, ready to blame others-Have you ever wondered Why pet theories are ignored? Because they haven't got Facts, just conjecture, and twisting facts to fit a Theory only muddies the water and weakens the arguement. Don't go reaching for something until you have a Clear path, filled with Facts. If you really want to help, Volunteer for Law Enforcement groups, Get the Training and get out there to Work. We can use the help, believe me. And you can take the costs off your income taxes as long as it's an Official Organization.

Lock and reload It is a matter of speach for her. And the so called "CROSSHAIRS" on her website were symbols to mark the areas of the country where they were from. They weren't meant to be cross-hairs . You people make me sick! The shooter was a RETARD! Read the crap he had posted! HE WAS RETARDED! I see people just like him walking down the street babbling to themselves. Im sure his parents didnt know what to do for him. In the old days parents could have their retarded children committed for safety reasons.

But the Libs have made it a crime to lock people up like this...Then stop and wonder how crap like this happens. Libs are the reason this guy was walking around in the first place!

The 2nd amendment: (paraphrased) for a well regulated militia, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. This means, if you look at the federalist papers, that the citizen, being the militia in that time, has the right to keep and bear arms for the national, as well as for personal defense. and No law shall be written that takes this right away from the people. Read your history, and stop relying on what others interpret it to be.

And, more to the point, if this is what Palin said, and freaking all of you out, I have heard worse in a half time pep talk by the football coaches, yet none of the football team ever went out and killed anyone. those comments can be taken a few different ways. This guy was a nut, plain and simple. good thing we still live in a country where your words can not get you put in jail, or half the people on this blog would be there, as most of the reporters on Fox, AND msnbc. I have heard more hate speech come from msnbc, then Fox, by a far margin.

Lets not forget people were killed here, and even the police have not figured out why. Just the congress woman was the target. A republican Judge was killed, and she was a democrat in name only. Most of her position was more right leaning then left. Besides I have heard more hate on this blog from the left then from the right. "tea baggers", really? mostly people who are fed up with things, (health care) being shoved down our throats, and other bail outs, that have done nothing to get the common man back to work. We have been losing more jobs then this bail out has created. tell me where that is whats in the best interest for this country. The health care bill, has done nothing but force companies away from private health care, and onto socialized health care. And certain congress members say they don't care what the people want, they are going to push it through anyways.

Get real people. The Tea Party is not a bunch of back woods hicks just looking to kill someone. Most are just your neighbors., that are tired of the disconnect that washington has with the main stream.

AGAIN, this is a tragedy committed by a nut. Palin has no more to do with this then anyone else who has stood up and taken a stand against what they don't believe in. And this includes those of you on the left also, that come on here and spew hate.

Did you folks hear about the "Attack a Teacher" day? I'm surprised someone hasn't blamed both Sarah Palin and the TEA Party for that one as well.

Loons are loons and it does not matter what their particular brand of politics are for them to go off and do something insanely stupid like this man who shot people in Arizona. They do not follow the rules that 99% of the rest of society does. They are loaners and way past the edge of society.

thank you Don for some much needed common sense. very well put!

I agree with James Fox, people like Sarah Palin, John Boehner, Mitch Oconnel and the li,kes of all the others who make such outlandish and stupid remarks only add fuel to the fire for actions of others like this shooting. They just laugh it off but its not funny. And those are people who are or would be in our government? Its no wonder the crazys out there go nuts and do things they do....... They help create and cause these type of happenings to occur.... RELOAD ? Palin and her like are the hate spreaders and trouble makers , they are not trying to heal the problems this country , they only want to cause more problems or make it more difficult for those in the government who are trying to help cure them other wise why would they mAke remarks and make such stupid statements.. Those who thinks other wise and find that Palin woman to be such a fine person are as bad as she is. They may not have pulled the trigger but they help load the gun. Not much different..It was still immoral , stupid, insane and unforgivable ...

How would you have prevented this?

I guess you could also blame Obama. Everybody forget when he was calling his political opponents as "the enemy" and that we should "take aim" at defeating them? Would this not also be using metaphors of violence with weapons? Oh, that's right, it's different because you agree with him!!

Reload. Sounds like an illiterate imbecile. Go away Palin and take the rest of your nasty cohorts with you.

Who said the following?

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

It was Thomas Jefferson in 1787. So darn if it wasn't a tea partier!!

The Daily Kos said" She is dead to me now." January 6, 2010. Left wing blog.....Did you miss that coment?

Very interesting. The Main Stream Media and you lefties have been busy trying to spin this as some right wing or tea party terrorist and it turns out to be one of your deranged lefties. The only ones who have advocated violence have been Mr. Obama and his lefty buddies.

Thank God that the congresswomen is recovering and I hope the others do as well. My heart goes out to the families of the dead. This is really a shameful act. She was there to talk to and meet her constitutions face to face.

You guys are ridiculous.. .Everyone predicted the left would go crazy about this, calling it a "right wing" job lead by Sarah Palin... All you conspiracy theorists are just fueling the pre-judgement.

BTW, the Jefferson comment was sarcasm as he was one of the original "tea party" members

Sarah Palin should be arrested and charged with inciting violence against an elected official of the U.S. government. This also amounts to treason and inciting terrorism. I applaud journalist Chris Eidem (Eidam?) for supporting this view and explaining what the law is.

Surprised? Hardly; but not for the reason you mistakenly cite, Mr Fox. As any individual who can read and reason knows, Ms Palin's remarks were meant in the abstract *that may be a difficult concept for shallow thinkers, I realize, which is why I'll explain it to you now. Her "reload" comment meant that, if you don't succeed, reinvigorate yourself and try again. There, does that make it more simple for you?

As for not surprised...I am not. The liberal courts, the ones that make a mockery of laws and punishment, have deluded justice to the point where one truly has to work at it to just get convicted of a crime, let alone, receive any sort of punishment befitting a particular crime. Criminals and those contemplating criminal acts find absolutely no deterrence in the court systems the liberals and their judges have given us.

You, Mr Fox, should not be surprised by any of that.

"Obviously Palin's page wasn't meant literally"

Dave, of course to a person with a sound mind would not take her words literally, but you and I both know there are some seriously sick people in our country that would take that as a direct order. Public official have to take that into consideration. Why does Sarah even have to make violent refrences such as "reload" to even get her point or agenda across? We hold 21 year old celebrities more accountable for what they say and do than we do Goveners and Senators. This is a serious problem!

Of course her page was not meant literally.

It was a metaphor. Unfortunately, the liberal leftists either are too thick to understand that her comment meant merely to step back, regroup, and try again, or they choose to ignore what, to reasonable thinkers, is blatently obvious meaning.

I feel sorry for them in their self-imposed darkness.

new to the vine? that's not the way it works here. sadly.

Scooter..............Then let's change it, one at a time.

optomyst....exactly my point too little thought process. especially, but not limited to,Sundays. I for one endeavor to change it. Some however do not. nor do i believe some others are even capable of it. Case in point; note the comments contained herein thus far.

They make me sick. I am going somewhere else and get a sense of well-being. It is not here.

Sounds good to me. I'd love to see money grubbing REamthePUBlICAgaiNS move to Haiti.

U lefties R so pathetic! Some of your comments are simply stupid.

While your brilliance, as demonstrated by this comment, is so evident!(?)

Well said......

Sigh, I agree. Yesterday, I also got pulled into a senseless and pointless argument, reacting angrily to liberals blaming conservatives. I am sorry I reacted that way.

Now is the time to wish speedy recovery for those who were wounded and to grieve for the dead.

Russ

"Hard working Republicans vs Freeloading Democrats"

I'm more of a moderate, but I'll put my work ethic against anyone, Democrat or Republican. My Conservative friends, who kept their jobs but were still affected by the economy, haven't started working any harder. . . they haven't sold anything or done anything that would help them pay their bills, but they still make too much to get aid. They just simply stopped paying their bills and started moping around, complaining about the economy. I have one Conservative relative that hasn't worked in over a decade.

My Liberal friends, some who completely lost their jobs, are working very hard to regain employment, and many have recognized that they will have to make themselves more marketable and have been going back to school. Many of them did find work within just a few months, despite the difficult job market and the fact that they could have accepted unemployment for much longer. One actually works three jobs. They have accepted aid, but aren't using that for freeloading purposes. They're using it to get back on track or improve their prospects when the market comes back.

Which is worse, being apathetic to your situation and letting things happen to you or accepting a short-term opportunity until you can get back on your feet?

This idea that all Liberals are just mooches and freeloaders, and Conservatives are these hard-working, wholesome folks is misleading. What I'm saying, is that most of my Liberal friends are more hard-working than most of my Conservative friends. I'm more of a Moderate, and when we got hit with reduced hours, I cut extraneous spending by 75% and still hit my budget for over a year and a half before I left for a better job (which was good, because the financially overextended owners of my previous company have had multiple more rounds of layoffs). . . they expanded too fast without thought to how a stabilization, or worse, a decline, would affect what they were doing.

The point of what I'm saying is that not everything is always as it seems, and not every decision someone has to make is easy or is something they want to do. Sometimes, they're simply doing what they think is best.

We do support the victims. We don't want it to happen again and the lunatic fringe like Sarah Palin put out these ideas that an unstable person will act upon. You should wonder why anyone would put out these ideas in the first place.

I really like your way of thinking. I never vote party, I vote issues. I analize what effect the candidate stances have on the big picture and I make my decision based on that. I have voted fot both Dems and Reps; and I've even had to pull guns on people, to get them to behave. But just because I own guns and like them, does not mean that I want to shoot anybody. I'd rather people not try to ambush me as I'm getting out of work just for kicks (this actually happened to me a few years ago), than have to point a gun at them.

I like your way of thinking, I never vote party, I vote issues. I have had to pull guns and get into tussles with rug dealers, I have no regrets about any of it. It does not mean that I want to get into fights; but drug dealers are usually pretty drugged up themselves. I've never gotten into any trouble with the cops because of it.

I personally recommend Against "pulling a gun" on anyone. If they're a physical threat, and you truly need to draw a weapon, Don't just pull it, shoot. If the threat isn't bad enough to draw a weapon, Don't. Here's some guidelines-if you feel threatened, tell them to back off-no matter what, If they Continue to advance, they're threatening you. If they are obviously armed in any way, Or there's more than 2 of them, AND they're threatening you, I'd definitely be drawing my weapon, but i carry handcuffs and am trained in mechanical restraints. The rule of thumb is if they're a threat, you do what you have to to reduce the threat, but if they're within 21 feet, they're close enough to reach you before you can draw. Taking a life is never an easy choice, but if you have to to save your life, do it Without Hesitation. Never draw and threaten. Don't get silly, but don't threaten. Military is different than LEO, but in either case, the rule is come home safe. I'd rather argue with a live liberal than have to bury one and find the idiot that did it.

You can take pigs out of the pigsty but you can't keep them from posting here!

How about Right-wing personalities responsible for encouraging acts of violence apologize for what they've said that have and can easily influence unstable people?

OK, XD.....you go first. ;~)

I agree with you SSGDave. No one should carry a gun unless they are prepared and able to use it.

No one who carries a gun should draw it unless it is the absolute last avenue available to protect another or yourself.

However, if it comes to the point where one has justification to use deadly force in defense of oneself or another, NEVER pull it and wave it around.

If you have justification and pull a gun, pull it to shoot...and when you do, shoot to kill. If it comes down to it, I'd much rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

Stop the insane pandering to the vitriol..First utterance from lauer was about the 9 year old killed and this was insane and not connected!

6 PEOPLE DIED-14 were injured....Violence and hate mongering breed the same!

>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/3405336/Sarah-Palin-blamed-by-the-US-Secret-Service-for-death-threats-against-Barack-Obama.html?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d2a2a998935ffeb,0
>
>
>There is no direct evidence to tie the shooter to the vitriol ,yet! However, if history bears any weight the evidence will be in shortly. Incendiary rhetoric with 'remedies' alluding to weapons and violence are NEVER HELD in a vacuum! In this age of 'news' ,salacious and vile, being looped 24/7, without question it can not be discounted as attributable in this instance!
>
>If 'celebrities' and elected officials are advocating violent remedies for opposition to their beliefs--the unbalanced mind makes no distinction as to to the correctness of the assertion! Any means or action - based on the examples cited in the article , are acceptable!
>
>The rush to make this a 'lone isolated wolf' is an outrageous attempt to divert culpability and will NOT STAND!
>
>Do not let the msm media 'whitewash' this ...Push back with the press and local news sources as the bats in the belfry will continue to lie!
>
>There was more than one book on his list of ' favorites'..Not just ' Mien Kampf'!
>
>Considering the mental state of this man, as evidenced by his actions, it is unlikely that he had the mental agility or cognative comprehension to read other than cribsheets!
>

Ok.....you go first.

SHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Those types of articles do not fit the template, please go elsewhere with those types of stories.

Oh ... Great. Put up an enormous artificial security shield around every elected official for fear they might have contact with their constituents. Once that is done that we have officially sanctioned our elected representatives as 'THE RULING CLASS' ... and 'THE RULING CLASS' will have no idea whatsoever that they are, or are not, truly speaking for those they represent.

Yes our politicians should be doing this. The Taliban won. This culture changed and paranoia is now the Phoenix that has arisen from those ashes. It does not help when the culture uses violent metaphors....one never knows who is listening and in this case a very sick young man who took metaphors as facts. Boy, if this isn't a case for the broken health system: Why wasn't this young man being treated? People like Rush and Sarah are responsible, when you have drawn that much attention to yourself, you become responsible for your words and the effect they have. Not everyone realizes that these two are just doing and saying the things they say so that they can fill their own pockets with money.

Why wasn't he treated? Have you tried to get an appointment with a psychiatrist? I have a family member who is not violent, but needs help and it isn't there unless you have $200 per hour out of pocket. Back in the 70's we gave civil rights to the mentally insane. They cannot be kept under treatment unless they want to -- therefore a large population of homeless.

Since we all know the "daily Kos" is full of insanity and stupidity anyway, why would that surprise you? People like Bill Baker, the wierdo who follows in the path of adolph hitler and diefies the bummer, write often enough there that it exemplifies stupidity, especially when he calls himself "euphgeek". Just ignore it, it'll eventually go away and leave the intelligent conversations to the adults.

The Daily Kos, Brad??? I can't believe you'd even admit in public that you read that $hit.

What a hateful thing for you to say. Perhaps you are part of the problem.

Wow, all I am hearing is "Rush / Hate", "Sarah / Hate", all those hate filled bigots... Really??? Look at the hate...

We are not a 3rd world country yet... this is not the way we handle our troubles... One person (maybe guided)? acts in a method that is just like the extremist terrorists and now all people that beleive in conservative values are crackpots... ??????

Question? Is this person (the shooter) a Christian? (I seriously doubt it)

Question? Is this person (the shooter) a Republican? (I seriously doubt it)

Question? Is this person (the shooter) military trained? NO

I suspect: This person is from a broken home, has been the recipient of welfare, has a criminal history (aka part of the broken system) and has a very poor work history.

OMG, Now I am a bigot. I have just catagorized a white, male, poverty class individual.

Never the less, my prayers are with all in this tragedy, this truly is a sad time. We are witnessing our country dropping peg by peg to a sub standard level...

But very, very true. And no, palin is the (or one of the) problem. She is not acting alone.

Blaming Palin must be a drug to you leftists.

This 22 year old was a pot smoking, communist manifesto reading leftist. But nice try at spin once again dancnman, but your tap 'dancn' around the facts shows just how shallow you really are.

Radical liberalism...rather like radical islam. As to the shooter, he is reminiscent of Manson, Hinckley, the Unabomber...all delusional lonely losers craving attention and the ability to redress 'wrongs'. He got his attention, went from nobody to the top of the public's notice, now this lunatic will go down in infamy

The right wing lie machine has spun up full-throttle. Now this guy is being called a leftist.

Pure demagogue tactics. Just like Germany in 1933. Exactly.

Indagroove,

I've read the Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, AND Mao's "Little Red Book". I read the first 2 books when I was still in grade school. The Little Red Book came a bit later. I even smoke a couple of puffs of marijuana every day after I take my medicine to keep my stomach settled- and occassionally just to relax a bit. None of that influenced my own political feelings (except for legalization of marijuana) For a number of years I voted republican until their actions and policies thoroughly disgusted me I didn't switch to voting democrat. I want both parties dumped as they both have put us in the present difficulties and cannot/should not be relied upon to provide a real fix. To use the fact that Loughner read the Manifesto and Mein Kampf to prove he leftist is silly, unless he was doing something like quoting passages from them as he shot up the congresswoman and that crowd.

I feel disgusted that still and again Politics is being used as an Excuse to "justify" murder. None of those people deserved to die, and the more i hear about Giffords, the more i think we needed and still need people like her, that aren't fooled into believing the BS of Pelosi and the crony's of Bummer. She voted her Conscience, as many of us do, and from all of his records, this shooter IS a "Liberal Looney" so don't ignore the Facts and attempt to spin this against someone else. No matter what anyone says, look at his Record. It Clearly States he's a Liberal. Once again, That appears to be his Guiding Principle, not Sarah Palin or any other republican. Look at the Facts, the Records, and for Once in your Miserable Lives, Admit one of Yours was doing this for Stupidity, not to glorify some stupid Ideal.

And someone Please tell the Stupid Media Idiots a Semi Auto Pistol is NOT an "Automatic Weapon" AKA: Machine Gun. it's not even a Machine Pistol unless it fires FULL AUTO, which this Very Obviously Did NOT.

I wouldn't trust anyone who waits to hear the truth from Fox news. Sheep watch Fox news. Try thinking for yourself.

BOTH MSNBC and FOX have there clientel that that don't engage the cognitive or thinking process. IT IS NOT restricted to one channel or either the "left" or the "right"

Ultra-conservatism is to blame here. We pollute people's mind with so much talk about the tyranny of government. There are too many Republican politicians publicly advocating a forceful and violent take over of of democratically elected officials that some people actually believe their crap. These politicians should be held accountable for using violent rhetoric. Fox News and Co. are also at fault for exacerbating demagogues, misconceptions, and half-truths. As long as ultra-conservatism continues to advocate their principles using violent rhetoric such as war, armed militias, coup d'etat etc. there will be nutcases who will continue to kill democratically elected officials.
-Timothy McVay -sympathized with armed militias and wanted to destroy the Federal Government. (influence by conservatism)
-Eric Robert Rudolph -bombed Centennial Olympic Park, Lesbian Night club, and an abortion clinic (influenced by conservatism)
-Scott Roeder - pro-choice advocate shot and killed George Tiller MD while Dr. Tiller attended church. (influenced by conservatism)
-Arian Brotherhood - populate or prison system proclaiming a purity of an authentic race...

I could go on and on... my point is simple. Why are conservative politicians advocating taking back a democratically elected government by physical armed force when every day Americans can not even shout "fire" inside a crowded movie theater? Why can't I scream "bomb" inside an airport? Why do politician's and ultra-conservative networks get a free pass at advocating physical harm on other people?