I learned this: Don't bring rocks to a gun fight!

When will the people of Mexico learn:

1. Stay in Mexico unless you plan to enter the U.S. legally.

2. Teach your children rule #1 AND to ALWAYS RESPECT and OBEY any law enforcement officers.

3. NEVER attack anyone with a gun.

I don't understand why it is always only the last party involved that is at fault when so many others initiate problems. I'm sorry this kid is dead, however he contributed greatly to his own death by more than one reason. If anyone here doesn't understand then they should read the rules above to glean a clue.

I'd say ten million dicks breaking immigration law is a crime, nevermind one little brat that got his ass capped.

mexican official???? that is BS right there. all the mexican officials at the border have been murdered due to their lack of stopping the gangs.

I've always said the US has got nothing on anyone. With 25% of the world prison population housed in this country and trigger happy police officers getting into trouble over and over again, the US can hardly preach the world about human rights.

That doesn't mean the US is not a neat place to live and do business in, but when it comes to democracy and human rights it's not as advanced as many of its European counterparts.

If this was standard procedure we wouldn't have an immigration problem from Mexico and the borders would be safe.

Olias of Sunhillow,

Would you like to find out the % of those persons in prisons and jails who are in our country illegally...you might be shocked? How many are on our 'most wanted' list, that are here illegally. How many that make up our gang bangers, who are here illegally. How many are on the 'free' lunch program (which I find to be another form of 'crime'), again, here illegally. Rape, rob, burglarize, that are here illegally. How many are on life time Sexual Predator lists, Yup, here illegally.

www.ojp.usdoj.gov/

www.fbi.gov/

oag.ca.gov/crime -

grow a brain!

p/s my first post I left out the word "DON'T" in the sentence "Illegals don't deserve to to profit by breaking the law and their own stupidity..."

And if there is any doubt this is direct from the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County (L. A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

*

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

*

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

*

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

*

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

*

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

*

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

*

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

*

9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.

*

10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L. A. County).

The illegal alien problem stands by itself but the bigger problem is a derivitive of having thirty million illegal aliens in this country, and that is the problem of first generation Americans born to illegal aliens. Look at the number of Hispanic first generation Americans in trouble with the law. It's the biggest problem we will face in the next fifty years; not terrorism, not homegrown terrorism, not recession or jobs. The problem will be gangs of Hispanics that speak in code, have code hand signals, can run to Mexico to avoid prosecution, and can hide in the illegal alien population. Lumping these two problems together is what Arizona tried to do and Obama is trying to stop us from doing. We need sensible law enforcement unobstructed by the federal enablers. Kentucky has moved to reinforce Arizona's law and endorse it as our own. Critics of the Kentucky law are showing their true beliefs. One critic said Wednesday that illegal aliens should be left alone because they are the only ones with jobs in certain sectors. Well duh. That is why we want them out stupid.

I'm sorry the teenager is dead. I ask again, where were the boy's parents?

The story in this article is completely different from the several different stories in the article yesterday. My score card is getting pretty full. I suppose it sounds a lot better to say he was returning to Mexico after visiting a girlfriend on the American side than to say he was trying to illegally enter the U.S. when he was killed.

Either way, he was committing an illegal act, and either way, there has been so much tension and so much death on the border lately, Calderon and the parents of these young people need to be telling them to stay away from the freaking thing in the interest of safety.

And I forgot to add to my post, that until it is proved that the Border Patrol agent fired the bullet that killed the young man, you are condemning him, and America, before all the facts are in.

It's amazing that when an Hispanic committs a transgression we are cautioned not to blame all for the actions of the one.....but if an American does something offensive, all of the United States and everyone in it is guilty by association.

These incidents make Americans look cowardly, not brave.

Considering that these " teenagers" are seasoned criminals and no strangers to violence I say the border patrol has a right to defend themselves against an assault. I'd say having projectiles, rocks thrown is enough to have a true fear for your physical safety. Mexico is culpable in these deaths also. This has been festering for quite sometime now and there is no sign that the violence is going to let up. Why was he climbing the fence particularity with Border Patrol there? I realize not everyone can be a brain surgeon but still. Really.

yes it does...kind of like when Israeli tanks open fire on Palestinian school children for throwing pebbles and rocks. Except then it's considered to be the correct response for gross provocation. Everyone knows a little skinny kid with a rock is a major threat to a well armed, well-fed adult...even to a tank or a well armed motor vehicle.

I think the whole thing is ludicrous. The man with the gun should have been able to better control himself, and the kids climbing the fence were doing so in disobedience of the law---and one of them got what can happen to trespassers.

If you're a decent and law abiding person of good repute you should have absolutely no trouble coming to this country from Mexico. I know because my sister married into a family from Michoacan, and they were good, clean, and hardworking people. And NOBODY hated illegal aliens more than they did, because they knew the illegals make the entire Mexican populace look like crap.

yeah cuz the mexican gangs killing thousands is ok. Put snipers all along the border shoot EVERYTHING that moves.

That is the most retarded thing I have read today. "shooting a teenager under any circumstances is nothing to be proud of -- self defense or not. These incidents make Americans look cowardly, not brave."

Hmmm how hard would it have been for this 17 year old to be a member of MS13 and pulled out a gun shooting back at the border police? They do it in drive by's all the time in LA. This was never a matter of pride its a matter of LAW. If he had been abiding by it he would still be alive. If he had not entered into a littany of illegal acts then he would still be breathing. I am fine with the bravery these Men and Women of the border police exhibit every day. Honestly I wish more of them would engage these bad guys rather than turning the other cheek. We need defense at the borders not pacifism as you would clearly have.

There is no such thing as the death penalty for illegal border crossing, and if the boy was scaling the fence at the time he was shot he wasn't threatening anyone -- that would be murder.

Border agents aren't judge, jury and executioner. The shooting can only be excused for real self defense -- not anger, not frustration, not border protection.

it's unbelievable how people can be so ignorant living in the united states. there are so many racists! this country does not deserve to be called the united states there is nothing united or free about this country. i would love to have seen how it would be if the roles changed im sure if the us was as crappy and had very unstable and had harsh living conditions like mexico we would also be trying to get somewhere else even if it was the "law". im totally off the subject about the shooting but teens are teens wherever they are they do stupid things that they get in trouble for whether they are hispanic, african american, and yes whites also make mistakes ppl just see it as less harmful because theyre not "illegals" i have seen blacks and whites who sell drugs and homeless and them bad thing is they are legal in the us and dont take advantage of the oppurtunities they have yet we complain about people who yes come here illegaly bt at least they try to earn a living not ask for it on street corners. we need to learn to live with all diff races because whether we like it or not i doubt that immigration will ever stop, it might be less bt never none!

go to mexico and try the crap over there that the illegals do here in this country!! see what happens to you!! yes - i do know - i worked in mexico for 15yrs as a LEGAL foreign worker. people like you are soooooo ignorant when it comes to this issue!!

Marissa,

at least they try to earn a living not ask for it on street corners.

Obviously, you've never been outside of a Home Depot in most of America or on 8th Ave in NY's garment district.

I Hope PR doesn't stand for Puerto Rico.

MARISSA-2883937 is an idiot. This is about illegals, not racism.

ok jackass the comment the person that left the comment before me sounded racist by writing what he did. It comes down to the same thing racist people blame illegals for all crimes. I do understand and know a lot of them that are here are criminals and do not deserve to be here but there are people that just come here to earn a living for their families, and that is not a crime.

If they are coming here WITHOUT papers, take a job WITHOUT a greencard, are being paid under the table, pushing out a 'baby' to collect the welfare benefits our country GIVES away and DO NOT have LEGAL status....THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW !

Lather, rinse, repeat...if the only conclusion you can come up with is that American's are 'racist' because they are sick and tired of being invaded by breeders who DO NOT belong here and take WAY MORE than they ever give... YOU FAIL AND ARE AN IDIOT, just like scifiwriter's post stated!

killerb, same with the Home Depo in Signal Hill, California. I refuse to spend my hard earned cash in a store where, the moment I leave, I'm surrounded by a group of men who insist they are going to do 'my' project at home for me..for a small fee. Also, seeing them pissing in the bushes by their government build kiosk disgusts me. No, the WHOLE situation surrounding illegal aliens and the fact NO POLITICIAN is willing to discuss deporting the lot of them, disgusts me more!

Again, this, apparently bears repeating....and who gives a rip about what the 'other' races you saw are doing. THEY ARE LEGAL CITIZENS, PERIOD!

Your 'non' criminals are sure working hard to prove you stupid, aren't they?

And if there is any doubt this is direct from the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County (L. A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

*

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

*

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.

*

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

*

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

*

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

*

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

*

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

*

9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.

*

10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L. A. County).

Amen! If you go back and read yesterday's account(s) of the incident and add them to today's account of the incident you will have such a variety of stories you will be hard pressed to believe you are reading about the same one.

This current story is so far fetched it sounds like someone sat up all night making up a Disney version to explain what happened.

If the boy died from a gunshot wound, so be it. But until the FBI is allowed to examine the body and do ballistics tests, I'm not believing anything the Mexicans say. In fact, given the way our government has been kissing Calderon's rear end, and learning that we're about to open up our highways to Mexico's long distance truckers when our economy stands the way it does, I'm not sure I'll believe my own government.

And that's sad.

While shooting a person may be nothing to be proud of, "teenagers" are perfectly capable of committing violent acts and often do -Protect The Innocent

Being 'capable' of committing violent acts is irrelevant -- that could be anyone. There is no more reason to 'walk a mile in a border agent's shoes' than walking a mile in the boy's shoes.

ten: He was 17. That's beyond being a "boy". When you get to 17, you'll know what I mean.

17 is a child under the law. Whay do you hate the law?

But the account of the guy being dropped off by a car with tinted windows and telling the hospital guards he was shot by border patrol agents was relayed from the Mexican town of Sonora according to the article, NOT from the US hospital itself.

He was involved in something criminal mad! Illegal entry into the USA.

Actually, no they won't. I assume police receive the same training as US soldiers do. We were told to basically withdraw from the rock throwers, unless they upped the ante. We had guns. A rock can't be thrown any further than a hand grenade. We were trained to ignore that kind of provacation, especially if the rocks were in the hands of children and youths. Perhaps Betty, you shouldn't comment on things you are ignorant about.

differnet- you "assume" police receive the same training as US soldiers do, but yet you blast Betty for her assumptions. Hypocrite!

Show me an incident where a police officer in the past 10 years has shot and killed a rock throwing teen.

First of all, police officers and soldiers are two completely different jobs and sets of people with totally different training and circumstances.

Second, a rock can be considered deadly force if being thrown from a short distance at a police officer. A rock can severely injure you. A person can then take the police officers gun. Dont assume a rock is harmless because it is not.

Third, and most importantly, you stop deadly force, with deadly force. Period.

Military and Border police absolutely do not get the same training. I did 22 years in the Army and never once got training to defend against rock throwers except to lock and load the first 20 round magazine and prepare to engage the enemy. I think "different" guy is making way too many assumptions.

I did 22 years in the Army and never once got training to defend against rock throwers except to lock and load the first 20 round magazine and prepare to engage the enemy.

I think the Army National Guard recruits receive riot and crowd control training which would includes how to deal with rock throwers. I remember crowd control training when I went to boot camp at Ft. Leonard wood many years ago.

American parents would not stand for their children being shot for throwing stones. Doesn't anyone remember Kent State?

Hey Eric, obviously you never served in C2I then, because we were in charge not only of active engagement with enemy forces, but also with civilian populations. For the 4 years I served in that position, we were given what would be the equivalent of police control so that if we had to deal with civilian after an area had been pacified, we could do it.

So, you actually believe a death sentence is warranted when someone enters a country illegally. So, let's extrapolate that a little and say if Iran decides to execute the two Americans that they have in custody who crossed their border, you would be okay with that. Or is a "death penalty" only appropriate if you are brown?

Those folks in Iran were NOT throwing rocks.

And: Are you saying only "white" criminals should get a death penalty?

Racist!

IBF, you're going to replace the government? You and your cane or just with your toy poodle?

yeah armchair referee here. You have no idea how close he was. Don't include religion in it. If you want to do that isnt it in the bible that you stone people to death for certain crimes? Yes it is. How is a border cop supposed to just produce a shield to protect himself from stones being thrown? He has the right to defend himself and he did just that. We pay him to protect our country. If you dont like the way we do things then try moving over to good ole mexico and dont come back.

Good point Eric.

differant also brought up Iran. They are the ones that KILL people with ROCKS.

Yes, but when you have a superior weapon, you can just step back out of range.

diff: I assume you've never been hit by a rock?

In training, yes. And you know what the NCO yelled at me? He wanted to know why I was too stupid to move back out of range.

differnt,
Since people in your 'real' life are also calling you 'stupid'....I'd take the hint!

Geez, if 'Christian" going to become the new "race card" in these posts?

Very good point Angela. LOL

And yet by far the most effective way of dealing with a rock throwing mob is to fix bayonets and advance. I've done it twice and laughed all the way, mechanized infantry backed by light armor fumbling to attach bayonets before advancing into a mob. But it works.

Nothing about the story adds up. Neither yesterday's account of it, nor today's account of it.

After all the finger pointing and the blame allocation is over and done with, the boy will still be dead. He will be dead for one reason only.....he was performing an illegal act, sanctioned by his government and slyly encouraged by ours.

screminmimi, no, he may be dead because someone used excessive force. Similar incidences by police officers (use of excessive force) have led to manslaughter convictions.

''may be'' is the crux of this conversation...It seems with the wildly differing stores, no one knows the truth...

From the injuries described and by the fact he landed on the Mexican side of the fence, the most likely scenario is the young man was shot by someone on the Mexican side of the fence.

Maybe the Mexican cops thought he was a Guatamanteca trying to sneak into mexico?

Unarmed? Let me bounce a rock off of your head and then you just stand there. You do know that stones were, and still are, a method for executing people right?

He was armed with a weapon. If you throw a rock at me and a cop sees you do it you will be charge with ADW. Assult with a deadly weapon because rocks can clearly kill you. Just because he didnt have a gun doesnt make him innocent in any way. BTW don't they still kill folks in Iran by throwing stones at them? Oh yeah YES they do. Wake up folks.

Don't be ridiculous. A teen throwing a stone cannot be compared to an execution by stoning. Huge difference!

Some of these people like arizona tumbleweed are racists to the core. Can't change ingnorance.

And can you point out ANY racist statement by me? Or are you just an instigator? Maybe YOU are the racist, and trying to shift the shame?

People that have been on here for awhile KNOW what a liar you are.

Mexican is NOT a race. Nor are Mexican people "bad". Cartel members ARE.

here's an alternative: let's have them live with you and you can support them. you obviously don't live in a state which is directly affected by illegal immigrants. do you know that illegals pay less than us citizens for college tuition???? do you know that due to the high numbers of illegal students in california colleges and universities, us citizens are denied entrance because there is no room?????? hmmmmmmm.............u think something is wrong with this picture????

and one more thing - mexicans have NO respect for americans or the usa - they just want the free benefits. yes - i know - i worked in mexico for 15yrs and they are not afraid to voice these attitudes.

A better life? You mean he wanted to sleep with an American girl, and that is how he wanted a better life? Get off it. He was a kid with too much testosterone who was intent on doing whatever he wanted and thought he was invincible.

A better life?????????

They are bring drugs with them. And their Mexican flag.

SDMissy, We do seem to have some things in common.

I too lived in Mexico for several years. I found the Mexican people on the whole (drug cartels excepted) to be a hardworking, warm, loving, and caring people. You and I evidently had very different experiences when we lived there. We frequently conversed (in both English and Spanish) about the differences in our countries--good points as well as not-so-good sticky points. I never for a minute in those years felt any lack of respect. Hmm . . . it looks like our experiences were poles apart.

Another apparent point in common, I too live in a state that is directly impacted by illegals. You imply that you live in California, so I am assuming that you are from there.

Here's where the main difference comes--I think we need to find a viable solution to the problem. A viable solution is NOT one that includes deadly force. It's not even one that has guns as a basis.

Gosh, I just read about the SIX people who were killed in Arizona (another state directly impacted by illegal iimmigration). Big brave guys, kill two people in their SEVENTIES! And four other people, one of whom is in critical condition. That issue apparently is one of opposing the health care. No mention in that article about illegals, it's all about GUNS! You think if those 2 people didn't have guns, the congresswoman (critical condition) and the 6 dead people would still be alive? Or would it just have been because of the "illegals" problem?

Get a grip, people, guns are not the way to solve any problems!

Sherri--I don't know if that part of the story is even true. In fact, there are so many conflicting stories that it's very difficult to know what happened. Testosterone? Probably. I don't know of a 17 boy who doesn't have lots of it. If that's what happened, it was stupid. In fact, the boy's actions altogether were obviously ill-thought out. Still, I don't think he should have lost his life over it.

Arizona--you say their bring their drugs and their flags. I don't see any problem with the flags--there are flags of other countries flying all over the US. Ever been to Texas? I have to disagree with you about the drugs. Do you think EVERYONE in Mexico is on drugs? Or brings them across the border? That's a bit too much of a stereotype.

So much more to say, but . . . the bottom line is, without the guns, many, many people in this country would be alive. Oh, yes, and back to that Golden Rule! How are we applying that to this situation? I venture to say that many of those writing these vicious, "shoot-em-up" posts consider themselves Christians. I don't know how, with that attitude.

You say our immigration system is outdated and broken, yet we accept more legal immigrants than the rest of the world combined! How much burden is America expected to bear? When are you people going to start praising the immigration system for what it IS doing instead of damning it for what it was never capable of doing?

He wasn't retreating, he was throwing rocks

You don't think throwing rocks is a dangerous weapon?

Try telling that to David when he slew Goliath!

you are ignorant. your argument isn't even relative to the issue nor the facts.

Rock throwing is nothing.

That's why some countries are using it to (execute), KILL people.

Execution by stoning is not the same. Stoning victims are bound, place in a hole in the ground so they can't move, and stoned repeatedly by a large crowd of adults. Huge difference.

ten: The point is ROCKS CAN KILL.

So can too many Big Macs.

I see you're going to prove your NCO was right.

Well renoron your"guarantee"would be wrong in the state of Nevada.

Arizona hasn't "buckled". We are in court.

Eric: "Our system needs to be fixed. Arizona had it headed in the right direction until they buckled from the pressure. Simple answer, bigger fences, steeper penalties, jail for repeat offenders. If your parents are here illegal then you are too. deport them all." You missed something. Lets imprison illegal alien employers for 5 years. If you dry up the polluted puddle, you get rid of the mosquitoes!

sdmissy, you are a total biggot. I bet you weigh 300 lbs and couldn't climb a fence if you wanted to.

Charles-2574472
u r an idiot.

Charles I bet you misspell "rasist" also.

Are you an English teacher Mr. Gollygee willikers I can't find my dick?

sdmissy, you are not only a rasist but naive. Just because you worked in Mexico for fifteen years doesn't make you an expert in what all mexicans think about the U.S.A. I take it back. You are totally stupid. I agree with charles, you probably couldn't climb a fence to get your fat ass over it if your life depended on it. Whe didn't you spew your hatred for Mexicans when you worked over there all those years. I hear Mexicans f#&k anything they see except you. Is that why you hate them so?