I think muslims should take up smoking pot. They could have their own Summer of Love.

Scott what is stupid is your assumption. I like you I don't believe in 'Great Tooth Fairy' in the sky either (I require proof not faith & last time I checked there was none) & I have been married to a Muslim man for 14 years; to my knowledge he nor his family nor his friends have ever hurt a fly. Their religion does not demand that they kill anyone it is a pure fallacy & misinterpretation. It's the right wing orthodox nuts that are a problem & do not understand their own teachings, not the average Muslim & I'm right you know why? Because 99% of their population is PEACEFUL, when they come knocking on your door & threaten you then you can weigh in with your idiotic rhetoric but until then you are very wrong.

Persecuting Christians is nothing new. Satin has used various cults to try and exterminate us for 2000 yrs.( this time it's muslims) Pray for our Christian brethren in Iraqi.

It has nothing to do with satin or lace or any fabric other than the fabric of stupidity, nor is there a "Satan" at play either, I don't subscribe to a belief in a man deep in the ground somewhere. That said, we ALL deserve peace & the feeling of security no matter Christian, Muslim, Jewish or non-believers.

These are not your mainstream Muslims causing all this turmoil.Care should be taken in your statements before blaming a whole religion for a few extremist.Many Christians and Muslims live in peace in many other countries.
Although tolerance more than acceptance seems to be the rule if you are Christian living in a Mid East Muslim community..I surely would not.

Coral Taxi, where is it that Muslims and Christians live together in peace?

Let's face it, Saddam Hussein was a "bad man", but at least religious tolerance was enforced. Bush/Cheney opened the proverbial can of worms with their war based on lies (and outing a CIA agent in the process). Of course, they're not to worry, with their self-imposed immunity from prosecution, and the massive amounts of cash they have (via Haliburton kickbacks, etc.).

Thanks again, guys, for F***ING up the world with your personal "crusade" and leaving the mess for the rest of us to deal with.

Dnimerick, compared with current Iraq, Muslims and Christians live together in peace in Syria, Egypt, Palestinian territories. And they lived quite peacefully in Iraq under Saddam regime. In fact, there is no country in the world besides "liberated" Iraq, where the whole Christian population is fleeing.

CORAL TAXI

" A few extremist" That's what satin wants you to believe. Read the koran than get back with me.

Alex, the situation for Christians in Egypt is deteriorating. It's true that Syria has a largely secular government and as long as that's true perhaps the situation there will be somewhat stable.

Coral Taxi, where is it that Muslims and Christians live together in peace?

You can start with my family.

@1.9 When you stop believing in the boogie man with a pitch fork we'll debate.

@1.10 No. My husband is Muslim from Egypt his best friend is an Egyptian Coptic (Christian in case you didn't know). You claims are sweeping & general.

No other religion compares to the {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES}

==================================

You seem to have forgotten what early Americans did to the American Indian, Blacks and any other minority that didn't fit in with their beliefs. Our history isn't overly peaceful either.

How can this be happening to Christians in Muslim controlled countries? We are told Islam is a peaceful religion.

The answer is we are told a politically correct lie. Islam is a religion that considers anyone not a Muslim as a vile , unclean creature to be eliminated from the world of Allah.

Don't take the word of anyone; educate yourself and learn the truth about Islam by acquiring and reading the Koran, Hadith and Sira of Muhammad.

First off @Lee its SATAN NOT SATIN! Satin is a fabric! Secondly @dnimerick I am a Muslim, my family are Christian, and YES WE LIVE QUITE PEACEFULLY AND HAPPILY TOGETHER THANK YOU! I am Muslim and have read the Quran. It does say to defend yourself against non-believers..... BUT the true definition on a kafir (non-believer) is "one that doesn't believe in GOD!!!" Not "non-Muslims" in the popular sense! "Islam" means "submission to God". A Muslim is "one whom submits themself to God"! Those whom don't believe in GOD will burn. So guess what that means ANYONE WHOM WORSHIPS GOD AND PRAYS TO HIM WILL BE SAVED! That means CHRISTIANS AND JEWS TOO!! READ THE QURAN!!!! Muslims believe in the Holy Bible, AND the Holy Torah, AND the Holy Quran!!!! Get it straight!!!!!

@ rimrnick; This was a letter from a Muslim(Abd el-Kader) in 1860 who saved over 10,000 Christians from Massacre in Damascus.Which is goes exactly to my point,as the corrupters of Islam he speaks are those I speak of today that that fan the flames of extremism.

That which we did for the Christians, we did to be faithful to Islamic law and out of respect for human rights. All creatures are part of God's family and those most loved by God are those who do the most good for his family. All the religions of the book rest on two principles – to praise God and to have compassion for his creatures ... The law of Mohammed places the greatest importance on compassion and mercy, and on all that which preserves social cohesion and protects us from division. But those(extremist) who belong to the religion of Mohammed have corrupted it, which is why they are now like lost sheep.

@ Lee; Yes Lee a few the extremist of Islam are a very small percentage to compared to the moderates.And I know what the Koran states about how Muslims are to be toward other religions,I have posted verse on it.

Alex -

In fact, there is no country in the world besides "liberated" Iraq, where the whole Christian population is fleeing.

Try Turkey, and Sudan for starters.

JK is the only one who really hit at the heart of the matter. None of this was happening in Iraq BEFORE the U.S. invasion. Yeah, Saddam was a dictator -- but the world is full of them and we are not invading THOSE countries (starting with PRK!).

This is a DIRECT result of Bush's interference and unprovoked attack on Iraq. He should have just focussed on Afghanistan, where the 911 terrorists were based, and his "friends" in Saudi Arabia and perhaps we would be OUT now.

Now, instead of a relatively stable (and secular) middle eastern country, we have yet another hotbed of terrorism and a place where radical Islam has taken hold.

And, btw, for those spouting on the Muslim Sharia law -- let that be a lesson to you on what will happen when ANY religion is allowed to take over a government!

Try Turkey, and Sudan for starters.

Turkey is a secular nation. They bend over backward to remain that way, and rigidly support religious freedom and tolerance. Christians aren't fleeing there, you're making that up out of whole cloth.

The Catholic community of Iraqi,which numbered around 3 million, is the oldest Christian community in the world; they supplied the professionals in Iraqui area , before Iraqi was Iraqi, for close to 2 thousand years. Many thousands have fled to Detroit, where they are attempting to rebuild their life; we have upset the balance in the area, and the radicals will take over as soon as we are gone; Bush is the culprit in this fiasco, he brought us into a unnecessary war, for vengeance , Cheney for money, Rums field for power; all three should be tried for treason !

christians have killed way more human beings than any particular muslim religion. grats on trying to change history. but its a huge FAIL son.

One Christian can whip all the Muslims..I have proposed just such a thing..been planning on it for years...since 93 yes .... :)

@ Scott we can live in peace with Muslims; only we must convert them all...I put my trust in Jesus. He will not convert them all , but will save some.. that's the best we can do... :)

they will keep doing more of the same until the rest of the world gets tired of it and starts killing them where ever they are.

they want to go to allah, we should be helping them. half a dozen nukes should do it.

I guess our Illegal Invasion made the world safer for Democracy and Christianity....LOL.

Scott-2632503,

1. Modern Islam is not the limiting western Label of "Religion". For an Islamic Believer Islam is ALL, All Politics, All Religion, All Laws, All Ways of Life, All Culture, All Belief, etc.. This is why to take away Islam from an Islamic Believer is Murder. This is why the Holy Koran (Quran) authorizes the Fortifying, Arming, Harboring of the Worldwide Islamic Law Enforcement (aka Death Squads, Mandatory Islamic Tithe Collectors), Worldwide Islamic Military (aka Jihadists, Terrorists) at Mosques Worldwide for perceived persecution, as "Persecution is Severer than Slaughter". Holy Koran (Quran) Sura 2.

2. All Modern Islamic Believers must adhere to the Holy Koran (Quran) and Islamic Laws (Hadith Laws, Fiqh Laws, Sharia Laws, etc.). Islam is not a pick and chose Belief. To not Believe everything or say anything against Islam is to "Do harm to Allah and His Prophet" the Death Penalty as carried out Worldwide by the Islamic Law Enforcement (Death Squads).

For Modern Islam this belief includes the 109 Verses of the 114 Verses of the Holy Koran (Quran) that Call All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (everyone else including those "lesser" Islamic Believers "Moderates", "Liberals", "Peaceful" as Heretics or Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers).

Modern Islam Declared War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (yes, Atheistis too), and the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers did not even know it (yet).

The only real Peaceful Islamic Believers that I have ever seen are those that were massacred by the majority of Islamic Believers and are now Resting in Peace (dead).

3. Currently All Modern Islamic Believers must provide Mandatory Islamic Tithes, these Mandatory Islamic Tithes include Political Endorsements, Legitimization of Islam and Goals, Misinformation (posting on the internet, news papers, propaganda, etc.), Taqiya (Lies to Advance Islam), monetary, and if they have nothing else to Tithe then themselves as part of the Jihad. This is enforced by the Worldwide Islamic Law Enforcement.

These Mandatory Islamic Tithes are funding:

a. The WorldwideIslamic Military (aka Jihadists, Terrorists). Usually under the leadership of a leader for each faction. examples are the International Al Quada Franchise, Pakistanis Taliban, Taliban, Army of Islam, Muslim Brotherhood, Chechen Foreign Fighters, etc..

b. The Worldwide Islamic Law Enforcement (aka Death Squads, Mandatory Islamic Tithe Collectors). Usually organized by the Imams, Clerics, Mullahs, etc. at the local Mosques (that includes other properties, like Cultural Centers, etc.).

With all of the above stated based on direct quotes out of my Unabridged Arabic Holy Koran (Quran), Hadith Laws, Fiqh Laws, Sharia Laws, etc. as pertains to Modern Islam TODAY.

RiverDog-1572451 - I think muslims should take up smoking pot.

Islamic Nations of Turkey, Afghanistan, smoke Hashish. The name "grass", "weed" came from the Arabic name.

SH-2000 - Because 99% of their population is PEACEFUL, when they come knocking on your door & threaten you then you can weigh in with your idiotic rhetoric but until then you are very wrong.

Nope. It is the other way around. 1% are Peaceful and 99% adhere to the Holy Koran (Quran). See #2. above. And 3. above, about Taqiya.

As far as being married to a Muslim, if you are not a Muslim, you are not considered by Islamic Believers as Married as his "Real" Wife. Taqiya, can and does include deception to seem to adhere to western culture. Of course there is also the required Female Genital Mutilations for Modern Islam, removal of your clitoris, labia, etc.. Do you even go to the Mosque with him and sit in the back behind a screen, if not you know nothing of Modern Islam.

JK from PA, Iraq started long before you were born. During my day, US Military Training Teams from Germany to Iraq, during the Iran Iraq Wars.

As far as President Saddam Hussein, all people have to do is research what happened when he announced his plan to "Modernize (Westernize) the Arab World" including Women's Rights.

1. The Islamic Believers issued a rare Death Penalty Fatawa against President Saddam Hussein (violations of Islamic Laws, Holy Koran (Quran), Heretic, Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, etc.).

2. Sent Islamic Believers as Lobbyists to US President and US Congress, especially the Oil Rich members of the Arab League of Nations, to demand the Overthrow of President Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis Government, President Clinton and US Congress believed the Islamic Lobbyists and passed H.R.4655, short title, "Overthrow President Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis Government". Stating, Funding, Organizing the Overthrow of another Sovereign Government by International Laws is a Declaration of War. This was the start of Operation Iraqis Freedom. With H.R.4655 later amended by US Congress to read "Overthrow of the Iraqis President and Iraqis Government to Liberate the Iraqis People". First US Military Operation under Law, Declaration of War with Iraq, H.R.4655, 1998 Operation Desert Fox.

Alex-2788931 - Dnimerick, compared with current Iraq, Muslims and Christians live together in peace in Syria, Egypt, Palestinian territories.

So what compared to Darfur (Sudan) with Arab Omani Muslims massacring peaceful African Islamic Believers, Iraq is peaceful. Ask the Hamas Warlords how they feel about the Christians in Palestine and Gaza (you are really uninformed).

Mariam-29, nope even your name, Mary, is considered a crime against Islam as mentioned in Sura 9. of the Holy Koran (Quran) as part of the Christian Crimes against Allah and His Prophet. How are those lies to advance Islam working for you.

bspurloc; since over thousands of years Christians have killed others, Jews have killed others, Muslims have killed others; then it is OK , today for Muslims to kill Christians in Iraqi; great reasoning !

Wake up folks. The problem isn't really religion. The problem is the same since the beginning of written history. ALL governments are corrupt. ALL governments get out of control. It doesn't matterwhether it's the national socialist party, the muslims, the chritians, democracy, or an oligarchy of rich elitists. It always ends up the same. Whatever person or group of people get control of government gets to shove it's idea of utopia down everybody else's throat.

The only way to stop this perpetual insanity is to limit government to protecting it's people from foreign invasion, and punishing people for violating others rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Government cannot create utopia. It cannot and should not take care of me. It cannot "nation build" around the world. It ought only to motivate the society by assuring personal freedom of each individual to make the most of his life. They ought only to protect me from you - not protect me from me.

The TSA can't protect me. But they sure can rape my dignity. THe department of DEFENSE has been so directed toward OFFENSE that we had to create an entire new department of Homeland Security. The NAACP has never done ANYTHING for a white person. The homosexuals will NEVER make stop trying to be more equal than everybody else. And men will NEVER get equal justice in domestic court as long as the ABA and NOW control the legislatures.

Tyranny is alive and well here in the USA folks. The primary difference I see is that the Muslims are decent enough to simply kill you. Americans kill your soul and your hope, control and indoctrinate your children, steal your money through taxes, and feed their people an unpalatable soup wherein every political group imaginable has thrown in it's tyrannical spice. Then they leave your soulless, tortured body walking around. That's a fate WORSE than death. But here we are telling some other country how to live. Looks like the pot calling the Kettel black to me.

add to post #1.26.

Beth-440386, saxon, Brandon-801865, President Bush was long after the Overthrow of President Saddam Hussein had already been started under H.R.4655, 1998. Starting with the funding, organizing, of thousands of assassins, and insurgents to Overthrow President Saddam Hussein, and US Military Action, Operation Desert Fox, December 1998.

See post #1.26 as to who demanded the Overthrow of President Saddam Hussein with a Declaration of War with Iraq that conforms to the 1973 War Powers Resolution.

Are all of you saying that President Obama is Bush number 3. We are still at Iraq, here at Afghanistan, and then there are the other Two Wars started by President Obama. By the way really like the way that he withdrew the Combat Forces from Iraq and replaced them with "Non Combat" Forces trained as Combat Forces (like my USAF young Brother In Law, rushed thru US Army Infantry, currently at Iraq, of course could be worse he could be here at Afghanistan.).

Soylent Grin - Turkey is a secular nation. They bend over backward to remain that way, and rigidly support religious freedom and tolerance. Christians aren't fleeing there, you're making that up out of whole cloth.

Sure more Taqiya (lies to advance Islam). Guess you never been there (Erzrum, Incirlik, etc.) and it is none of your business as to why I was there. As far as Christians at Turkey fleeing they are not, they are joining the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, etc. to fight the Islamic Turks. Keep on smoking that Turkish Gold Seal Hashish or the other hashish cured in opium.

Aug. 8, 2010
Patriarch Bartholomew Feels "Crucified"
Leader of 300 Million Orthodox Christians Talks to 60 Minutes About The Hardships He And His Followers Face in Turkey
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/05/60minutes/main6747019.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;3

bspurloc - christians have killed way more human beings than any particular muslim religion. grats on trying to change history. but its a huge FAIL son.

You know that there are psych facilities for people like you that demand living in the centuries old past. Or are you saying that Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages. Hint President Obama is the President, this is the 21st Century, the year is 2010.

David: Where were you when the article about the Pope's letter stating that Christians were currently the most persecuted group was listed? 2% of the posters supported the Pope's claims (and the claims were made about the persecutions in Muslim countries) while the remaining 98% were some of the vilest and nastiest statements against Christianity that I have ever read.

No attempts were made to pay attention to facts: Christians started the Crusades, Christians and Christians alone burned witches, ditto with molesting children etc.

The current progressive political climate delights in bashing and denigrating Christianity all the while embracing and making excuses for the "peaceful Islamic" religion. They speak of religious tolerance as regards Islam and then hurl some truly hateful invectives against Christians. The hypocrisy is so thick that its almost impenetrable.

I truly wish those making excuses for Islamic barbarity would visit those countries engaging in those activities. It is easy to bash Christianity from the safety of a Christian nation...try doing the same with Islam in an Islamic country.

'Just returned from Kurdistan. We were treated with great hospitality by Muslim Kurds. The Minister of Higher Education told us he wants Kurdistan universities to welcome Muslims, Christians, Jews and people of all faiths. Kurdistan offers a great argument for the power of freedom. The markets thrive and the people have hope. Muslim and Christian fundamentalists have hijacked Islam and Christianity. "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus approx. 30 A.D.

JK is the only one who really hit at the heart of the matter. None of this was happening in Iraq BEFORE the U.S. invasion. Yeah, Saddam was a dictator -- but the world is full of them and we are not invading THOSE countries (starting with PRK!).

Try reading about the ethnic cleansing of the kurds. Then get back to me. I was there and saw what this madman was doing. Until you have experience in true human suffering please stop spreading dissent.

mygirl1 No attempts were made to pay attention to facts: Christians started the Crusades,

Most people never bothered with Military History that reveals the fact that the Crusades was primarily the Defense of Europe from the Ottoman Empire Attacks.

Pertaining to the Middle East, "Defense of the Holy Land", it is simple by drawing a timeline. As to who came first as far as Religion (indicating who was on the land first). Jews (1451 BC), Christians (33 AD), Muslims (610 AD). The Muslim argument would be that the Muslims were there first and the Jews attacked them, this would be like saying the Europeans were at America first and the Native Americans came there and attacked the Europeans.

Before anyone says something uninformed, most of the areas that became inhabited by the Jews was considered as unwanted, as occasionally passed thru by Nomadic Arabic Tribes, that believed there is no concept of ownership of land. Also during those time the Religion of the Arabs was whatever was dictated by the Pharaohs. It is sometimes said that because the Jews were slaves before that the hard work of turning desert into the "Land of Milk and Honey" was second nature as well as possibly learning Irrigation from being slaves under the Pharaohs.

Bill: It is great to know that. May God bless the Muslim Kurds who helps the fleeing Christians. I believe they will be rewarded with prosperity and peace.

The Qur’an tells us “kill the disbelievers wherever we find them” (2:191), “murder
them and treat them harshly” (9:123), “fight and slay the Pagans, seize
them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” (9:5).
The Qur’an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises “If there
are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you
will vanquish a thousand of them” (8:65) Allah and his messenger want us
to fight the Christians and the Jews “until they pay the Jizya [a penalty
tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing
submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). ”
Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our
promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them
whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us
to “fight the unbelievers” and “He will punish them by our hands, cover
them with shame and help us (to victory) over them” (9:14).
The Qur’an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and
relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis
(filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight
the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left

Okay, I'll cut right to the chase. Hopefully you are not the idiot you sound like. George Bush is an idiot for killing a lot more Muslims than Saddan ever did -- oh except for all those Kurds we promised we'd help if they would rise up against him, and then stood by when they did and watched them get slaughtered along with their wives and children -- and the Muslim religion are sama sama. Ah, the crusades!!!!! And the Baptist group who stands and celebrates the death of a soldier while his family mourns the loss of a son. If you think you know everything, I'd suggest you read the Koran and the Bible side by side and learn something about how very much alike they are!!!!! Do you even have a tiny clue about how many Iraquis we have caused to be killed with this war?

This discussion began with Scott making a horrible and bigoted statement that all Muslims are required to kill Christians. There were some reasonable statements made after that but honestly, we keep hearing and reading about the Newsvine Honor Code and this seems to be a clear violation. I wish Tyler would monitor such statements much more closely. It would be so good to be able to comment rationally and intelligently without the constant influx of horrible bigoted statements from ignorant and uneducated people who promote the very worst stereotypes of racial and religious minorities. No doubt a statement, a post on newsvine that said that 'all African-Americans were lazy, watermelon eating theives who only want to have sex with white women' would be immediately deleted yet I keep seeing these posts about the Muslims, of which there are well over a billion, perhaps approaching two billion the world over, that they are all craven, murderous terrorists. If there are that many Muslims and that all of them believe they should kill all Christians and Jews, why have they not done so, yet? It is clear that most Muslims are interested in trying to live together in peace with others of other faiths. There are many things to criticize the religious leaders of Islam but it is also quite clear that they are not all murderous terrorists. Such rhetoric is much too easy, and it allows us to overlook the underlying concerns that bring the violence of terrorism. As long as we have speaking and writing this way, we will continue to fail in addressing poverty, and the disparity of wealth in this nation.

If I remember correctly, they were calling the whites, pale faced monkeys, so get over it wag.

Hey Scott, if you're so adamant about it, why don't you round up some folks to start your own war against the Muslims?

Oh, I guess it's easy to send other people to do the dying for your own cause macabre.

This is the worst religion ever! There is none like it they should change the name to {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES} Obama please order more drones and hellfire missiles! All these people should be given asylum from religious persecution.

Good quote. AND, the hijacking of American politics by Jerry Falwell and the better-than-thou wack-jobs. THEY are as intollerant as the al Quida muslims. Only, THEY endorse the use of cruise missiles, not suicide vests. Idiot extremists in all religions.

Yea That Jerry Falwell? Didn't he turn into a suicide bomber? Hmm no I remember he died a peaceful death. No other religion compares to the {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES}

Amerikano

Have you ever heard of the Protestants Vs Catholics? All religions kill each other over there beliefs.

No other religion compares to the {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES}

I guess you never heard about the Spanish Inquisition?

Sorry but you've got to have a tad of crazy to buy into any religion.

Oh, and the Mormon massacre of 1857.

Human American-

Have fun burning in hell for all eternity.

LOL, That's the most pathetic thing anyone has ever said to me.

Thank you, neversurrender

Why all this discussion of what occurred centuries ago when no one alive on the face of the earth today existed? We have no control of what happen centuries before we were born and we are not responsible for what they did.

We only have the power to deal with the present , the here and now of our time on earth. In the here and now , groups of Muslims, very devout and pious, have read the Koran and Sunnah and found encouragement to murder and suppress the rights of those who chose a different philosophy of life.

These Muslims must be opposed and defeated to protect the rights of all humans to freely chose the philosophy of life they prefer and to enjoy the blessings of a government that does not discriminate based on faith against any of its citizens.

gary-309869
History repeats itself. Once this nightmare is over another religion will just start a new war. You have to destroy the madness at it's roots. To destroy a belief seems to be impossible though.

Why all this discussion of what occurred centuries ago when no one alive on the face of the earth today existed?

Really Gary? I suspect you could talk to a lot of Irish Catholics and Protestants that are still alive and still hurting from all the IRA terrorism --BASED ON RELIGION. And both sides of that one are Christian!

cuz shiites arent killing sunnis and sunnis killing shiites by MUCH MUCH larger sums.....

wah wah christians.... we live in a dominant muslim country wah wah look at us....

I must repeat no other religion compares to the {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES} so interesting that so many realized what religion I am speaking about.

I must repeat no other religion compares to the {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES} so interesting that so many realized what religion I am speaking about.

Huh?

Beth - First, the IRA was not mentioned above. Second, the genesis of the IRA was as the group fighting a war against the United Kingdom for Irish independence. Even more recently, at its core the fight was not a religious one but one seeking to unite all of Ireland as one country, i.e., the IRA believed that Northern Ireland , part of the United Kingdom, should be united with the remainder of Ireland to compose one country, the Republic of Ireland. Without the suppression and domination of Ireland, or parts of it, by England there would have been no war. Just because most of the participants on each side were of different religions does not make it a religious war. For example , if the country of Australia sought to control a large part of the country of India, there would be a war between the two countries. However, it would not be a religious war between Christians and Hindus but a war over territory.

@ Amerikano ..hellfire missles cannot do the job...

Gary -- It doesn't matter whether it was "mentioned above" or not. I'm just really tired of apologists conveniently "forgetting" the bloody past of religious strife in the world -- no matter WHAT religion is involved.

Religion in general has been "bloody" from day one. It still is. It was and is an excuse for power and used to motivate people to do other's bidding. It doesn't matter WHAT religion it is. The "Troubles" in Ireland are no exception. The power brokers may have been in it for political reasons, but they used religion to motivate the "soldiers". Protestant vs. Catholic.

The Holocaust is the same. The majority of those who "helped" Hitler were "good Christians". Jew baiting and pogroms have been around for thousands of years.

There is nothing different about things now. Do you REALLY think all this terrorism is about religion? If so, you're naive. Terribly. It is a power play and those in power, and wanting more power, are using believers to do the dirty work. Just like it has been for the past thousands of years.

I'm certainly not excusing Muslim terrorists, or any other religious terrorists, -- but those who think THEIR religion is sweet and clean needs to look again.

In the most famous words of George Santayana -- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." And THAT, sir, is why we need to look at those incidents "mentioned above". No one has "clean hands" and if we don't learn soon, we will destroy ourselves.

I'll leave you with another Santayana quote, one of my favorites -- "Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim."

gary-309869,

Most people have never been outside the US (Just look at the posts), much less living at Ire(land), a friend of mine that I lived with.

Beth-440386 stop being a "Betty" (surfer term).

Guess you never heard of the 1933 Alliance of Hitler and the Arab World with a Blood Oath signed by Amin Al-Husseini on behalf of all Islamic Believers. With the mutual goal of the extermination of the Jews, in accordance with the Holy Koran (Quran). To this day the descendants of those that signed the Blood Oath are bound by this Blood Oath, including those on Hitler's Staff.

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.

And if anybody has hijacked morality it's Wall St more than Al-Qaida.

David - you seem to be another one who lives to misinterpret in order to twist words -- while still missing the point!

Those in Germany were CHRISTIAN, not ARABS. Hitler was using their CHRISTIAN bias (stoked by the Catholic Church, btw) against the Jews to manipulate them. THAT was the point I was making -- which you conveniently chose to ignore.

As to your "1933 Alliance", it's interesting that Amin al-Husavni (the mufti of Jerusalem, to whom I believe you are referring) didn't meet Hitler until 1941 or 1942 when he was given asylum in Berlin.

In fact, Germany spurned many Arab offers in the early days to form Nazi parties as Hitler didn't want to offend the British.

The mufti DID submit draft declarations of Arab support in both 1940 and 1941 to the Germans. He wanted a public declaration from Hitler, on Palestine, which he did not get. He did receive approval from Mussolini in 1941.

I doubt there was any "Alliance" signed in 1933. However, I like to keep an open mind, so if you have any RELIABLE sources you'd like to share on the topic, I'd be happy to look at them.

Beth-440386- As to your "1933 Alliance", it's interesting that Amin al-Husavni (the mufti of Jerusalem, to whom I believe you are referring) didn't meet Hitler until 1941 or 1942 when he was given asylum in Berlin.

Like I stated before most people never lived outside of the US.

I did a research paper about, Why the German People Allowed Hitler's Rise to Power, when I was Stationed at Germany. This was based on original documents of the Deutsche Museum, US War Department Documents, British Imperial War Museum Documents, interviews of German survivors of WWII, etc.. I write my Research Papers like how Cornellius Ryan wrote his books with as much detail as possible, including interviews to obtain the personal experiences and psychological aspects of those times.

Again in 1933, there was as a part of the alliance and Blood Oath, a Muslim Brigade at Germany, since this was not a German Military Unit this did not violate the WWI Surrender Terms for Germany. At the same time in the Middle East Abdul Gamal Nasser (later President of Egypt) formed Young Egypt, using the Nazi Party as a model, with the slogan from Hitler's Mein Kampf, "One Folk, One Party, One Leader".

Beth-440386- Those in Germany were CHRISTIAN, not ARABS. Hitler was using their CHRISTIAN bias (stoked by the Catholic Church, btw) against the Jews to manipulate them. THAT was the point I was making -- which you conveniently chose to ignore.

And contrary to popular belief, the Humanist Movement was occurring at Germany, that put aside many of the Christian Beliefs. In this case Hitler and Science before God and many believed that because he had gotten Germany out of the Global Great Depression years before the US, as Germans were literally dropping dead in the streets from starvation added to this was Hitler getting the Germans out of the crippling WWI Restitutions. This included the execution of "Undesirables" like the physically or mentally infirm (old people). This can be seen in both my Research Paper, and much later in the movie, "Good", 2008, that depicts the attitudes and events of 1930s Germany.

Beth-440386 - I doubt there was any "Alliance" signed in 1933. However, I like to keep an open mind, so if you have any RELIABLE sources you'd like to share on the topic, I'd be happy to look at them.

There are two originals left, one in the archives at the Deutsche Museum, if you are German you cannot see it, as German Law Forbids the display of Nazi Symbols (this one has the color embossed symbol as well as a sealing wax emblems), and is in German with additional pages that added Hitler's Staff as signatories as well as most of the Muslim Brotherhood and Arab World. The second originalis at the British Imperial War Museum, this one is in Arabic, this one is missing some of the additional pages (listed at bottom of document). Back then I could only take pictures of these with my 35mm camera.

I got the rare opportunity to access the document archives since I knew some people since I graduated Gymnasium at Germany (previous classmates then and now in high places), as well as friends at England, and worldwide (like Egypt getting to see the Mandate of Exemption from Killing and Subjugation for the Christians at one Monastery at Egypt as signed by Mohammad himself).

Beth-440386 - In fact, Germany spurned many Arab offers in the early days to form Nazi parties as Hitler didn't want to offend the British.

Nope. As indicated by the SA, Sturmabteilung, of the 1920s-1930s, the Arabs were a necessary part of Hitler's Plans, especially for Oil. As many parts of the Middle East would have to be taken away from the British as British Colonies or former British Colonies.

If you haven't figured it out yet back then the best paperpushers (written record keepers, Bureaucrats) were the Germans (this made it very easy after WWII for the Nazi Hunters).

Beth -- Nothing you've said changes the fact we live today in the 21st century. We , those of us alive today, can only affect today, not yesterday. We had and have no control over the actions of those living long ago. We are not responsible for what others did long ago. Live in the present, the only era for which you have responsibility and can exercise some control.

Today, now, some Muslims are the overwhelming authors of terrorism throughout the world on a day to day basis. They are not the only authors but the number of acts of violence and mayhem committed in the name of Islam dwarfs the number animated by other views. These malefactors almost invariably were born as Muslims, raised as Muslims , worshiped as Muslims and lived as Muslims. They attribute their acts of violence to the guidance of the Koran and Sunnah.

In view of the unassable reality of the forgoing, you militate against a viable solution to this threat to peaceful, civilized behavior by confusing the issue with excoriations of actions taken long ago by other human beings, mostly long dead, and with other religious groups or philosophies in the world of the 21st century which contribule very little to the problem that exists TODAY.

Beth-440386 - David - you seem to be another one who lives to misinterpret in order to twist words -- while still missing the point!

Nope lying is against my nature, as a violation of logic.

This is unlike the condoned and mandatory Islamic Taqiya, Lies to Advance Islam.

As far as missing the point. When was the last time you read the Unabridged Arabic Holy Koran (Quran), Hadith Laws, Fiqh Laws, Sharia Laws, etc. as used TODAY by Modern Islam.

And do not tell me you read the extremely censored English versions, that leave out entire verses, sentences, harsh wording, etc., as any real Islamic Believer (especially those that do the pilgrimage to Mecca) will tell you the only true language of the Holy Koran (Quran) is Arabic.

I still am waiting for the sources you seem disinclined to give. So far, your only source is you. Sorry if I find that lacking. If you wrote a paper, surely you have a few citations in it you can share? Maybe a photo with the mufti's signature on such a document? A book? A published interview? Primary sources such as transcripts? Until then, I am to only go on the credibility of an anonymous person on Newsvine? Would YOU?

I repeat, I'm willing to look at RELIABLE sources.

BTW: It is not illegal to display Nazi symbols in an HISTORICAL CONTEXT. Otherwise this would not be on exhibit in the German Historical Museum in Berlin:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1320398/Hitler-Germans-exhibition-opens-German-Historical-Museum-Berlin.html

The article notes that they could not advertise due to the law, but they could certainly have the exhibit.

you militate against a viable solution to this threat to peaceful, civilized behavior by confusing the issue with excoriations of actions taken long ago by other human beings, mostly long dead, and with other religious groups or philosophies in the world of the 21st century which contribule very little to the problem that exists TODAY.

Hardly. I've never, not once, suggested that we should not address the problem of terrorism. I just view it in an historical context that there has ALWAYS been religious terrorism. If you have a problem that's been ongoing for thousands of years, it's pretty obvious you haven't learned to solve it.

Beth-440386,

Like stated before go to the Deutsche Museum and the Imperial War Museum yourself since you will not believe anything anyway unless you see those yourself.

Like stated before even in the Historical Context, it is still illegal to display Nazi symbols, like everything else there are exemptions. If you ever lived at Germany, all you have to do is go to a toy store and look at the Historical WWII aircraft, tanks, etc. that have the Nazi symbols censored (blacked out). Go live at Germany for over 20 years and then get back to me with a informed post.

As far as providing pictures, references, etc. I am not at home. I have been on years of consecutive tours here (Afghanistan) and previously years of consecutive tours at Iraq. Ever since my US Military Officer involvement with the Middle East since the 1980s (US Military Training Teams from Germany to Pakistan, US Military Training Teams from Germany to Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, before the Liberation of Kuwait, First Gulf War, before the US Invasion of Iraq (living with the Kurdistanis), before the US Invasion of Afghanistan, etc..).

Beth -- In your #2.25 response to my previous note ,you say your point is that since terror has occurred in many different centuries , then, humans have not learned to solve it.

With all due respect, who ever said we had? If that's all you meant in your many notes, why didn't you just say so in a few simple words.

another example to point at and look away from the christian crusades and CENTURIES of murdering humans because of their beliefs.

Poor Incas, Mayans, ingenious tribes everywhere u were massacred by christian crusades but we dont care that was the past..... wah wah wah

only thing as bad as religion is being ignorant, u apparently have both flaws.

bspurloc: you are so uniformed that it is pathetic...but then, information would only get in the way of your anti-christian polemic. You must be about 12 years old...wah,wah etc. is generally how children express themselves

bspurloc - Poor Incas, Mayans, ingenious tribes everywhere u were massacred by christian crusades

mygirl1 is exactly correct, "bspurloc: you are so uniformed that it is pathetic"

It was your ancestors of the Mexicans that were the Spanish Conquistadors that massacred the Incas, Aztecs, and forbade the Mayans from practicing their Culture (until recently 2010) and the primary motive was Greed for Gold and Wealth.

Again bspurloc the year is 2010, this is the 21st Century, President Obama is President. So are the Islamic Believers still stuck in the Middle Ages is that what you are saying.

outlaw religion? then you'd be just like the extremists creating the problems.

Agree. And it annoys me that most of us who are agnostic or atheist remain closeted because we are so judged & question on our beliefs when it literally takes decades of deep insight & thought to get here; yet we may not question the religious & just accept their faith as if faith alone has merits that trump an intelligent mind! In fact studies show higher IQ attributed to those who reject religion, obviously because as one article states, dogmatic's, still rely on ancient, pre-rational, supernatural and wishful thinking.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-26/health/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence_1_sexual-behaviors-liberalism-exclusivity?_s=PM:HEALTH

Believe what you want. You live in a free country....for now. If I live in a community where most of the people believe in Christ then don't complain about the nativity @ the court house and if you live in a community where most of the people believe in no god put what ever you want @ the court house any time of the year and I won't complain. Freedom of religion not freedom from it!

Freedom of religion is also the choice to live without it.

In my experience I've live in TX among Baptists who were far less understanding of my distaste for religion than any Muslim I've had similar discussions with. The court house is a poor example, separation of church & state (court house), put the nativity in the park instead, it look better there too.

"In fact studies show higher IQ attributed to those who reject religion"

What a disgustingly pridefull statement. Of course it isn't true in your case. Shouldn't that be, "In fact, studies show a higher IQ attributed to those who reject religion"? Thanks for proving yourself wrong, though unwittingly, you are partially correct. Christianity, as Christ gave it, has no religion or religious system in it.

Christianity, as Christ gave it, has no religion or religious system in it.

So let's have all those Christian churches give back the money they kept with their tax exempt status for being a religion.

Or do you support calling it a religion when it suits you and denying it's a religion when it doesn't? There's another word for people who do that.

damn straight

@ ricky bobby you've brought nothing to the discussion son..only the display of your ignorance.. :)

@ neversurrender

Well now that you pointed it out, yes I admit I'm prideful that I'm smarter than you.

You are quite nasty for someone who was taught to turn the other cheek.

Your posts haven't exactly been warm and fuzzy, SH.

I have a great idea for all those that do not want to be hypocrites.

Give me all your "In God We Trust" money.

SH 200: Your affiliation with muslims is wonderful. Do the men regard you as an equal? Are your thoughts, beliefs and attitudes given the same amount of regard as those of men?

As to atheism and agonosticism: why are you non-believers so defensive or act as though you are being actively persecuted? I have yet to see any signs or charters against non-believers. Nor have I seen them being rounded up and stoned, at least not in the US

@ chefaz-1319563 facts have nothing to do with warm affections in this case. I save the warm fuzzy's for the appropriate place; a forum intended for intellectual adult debate is not the place.

@ mygirl1 No problem here, why have you experienced the opposite with said men?

"atheism and agonosticism" lol was that intended to be a deliberate double entendre or did you stumble upon it? Atheists & Agnostics for the main part often feel they must be secretive regarding their beliefs because people feel free to question & thus try to sell their brand of religion; yes it has happened to me. In turn, no one would feel as comfortable in questioning why you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim. etc? It would be considered rude. Why we chose our beliefs (and yes they are beliefs as many of us are born with a religion & take years of reading, research & thought to get here) should be as off limits to discuss as me asking why you buy into yours.

Further reading may help you understand:

RICHARD DAWKINS, A Challenge to Atheists: come out of the closet

& BTW, Jesus taught being tolerant & open minded, you might want to think about that.

he was not very tolerant of sadam or gamora was he? how about jerico?

tolerance and open mindedness only goes so far....

Facts or opinions can and should be discussed in an adult debate intelligently and respectfully. I have seen neither from you and apparently there are others here that feel the same way. If you were half as intelligent and intelligible as you hope that you are, you would have recognized the sarcasm.

neversurrender was not "nasty" and I find it interesting that you have been antagonistic with other posters but as soon as you were called on it, you are in a great big hurry to declare that they are wrong and as a Christian "should be turning the other cheek". Again, in another post you again bring CHRIST JESUS regarding tolerance. For an atheist, you seem to enjoy telling others how they should practice their religion. Tolerance doesn't apply to you, as well??? Without the religious aspects, of course.

In closing, just for the record, I am a former agnostic and never felt that I had to hide it. At the time, it was a part of who I was. Emphasis on WAS. This was before computers where people now have the luxury of hiding behind key boards. My declarations were done face to face. Today, I happily declare my Salvation given by the sacrifice of CHRIST JESUS and love for GOD face to face again and also here behind the keyboard.

You might want to take David up on his post at 4.12 and give him what money you have.

@SH & BTW, Jesus taught being tolerant & open minded, you might want to think about that

Really? Tolerant and open minded...That's a statement people who don't want to be held accountable for their sin usually put forth so they can sleep at night. One thing Jesus was NOT was tolerant and open minded.

@Chefaz, I have been commenting lately on how agnostics and atheists seem to feel they have the inside track on how Christians should live their faith. Of course, I have garnered much negative and inflammatory commentary by pointing out that people who have never experienced regeneration can NOT know what it is to walk by the Spirit, and any finger pointing by atheists and agnostics cannot be trusted. Case in point is SH's comment I posted above. But even the fact that they cannot know what it is to live this Christian life does not stop them from telling us who God is, who Jesus is, what the Bible says, and how we are failing in our Christian lives. And they do not know that they are in gross error.

Thanks for bringing reason and truth into this thread, Levi. Great post.

One thing Jesus was NOT was tolerant and open minded.

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies,bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."-Jesus of Nazareth

If that's not tolerant what is? And as far as I am concerned; yes I am intolerant when it comes to hate generalizations regarding an entire group of people who number in the billions; yes I loath stupidity & my intolerance for that shows in some posts, but why am I defending myself? I'm not the hate monger here saying that all people in one religion & in one region are bad. Islamaphobe's, your generalizations are no less then moronic & remind me of Hitler with his fear of the Jewish population, I'll end the conversation on that note because clearly you are in need of an evolution of mind & spirit & that can take a lifetime. Good luck.

SH, let's take a step back and rightly understand the word of truth. Jesus made that comment to show how the children of God should live in a world that hates them. This is not tolerance of sin and wickedness.

your generalizations are no less then moronic & remind me of Hitler with his fear of the Jewish population, I'll end the conversation on that note because clearly you are in need of an evolution of mind & spirit & that can take a lifetime. Good luck.

I'm so sorry that people posted messages that got you all upset, and cause you to look for the words that wound. Either way, your above statement is designed to inflame and wound, and has no basis in the truth. And a little history for ya...Hitler wasn't afraid of the Jewish population. He hated them. Big difference.
And did I not speak the truth when I said that you believe Jesus to be "tolerant and open minded" so you are able to discount any requirements to faith and holy living in fear of God? I mean, if Jesus taught all was acceptable, why not believe all was acceptable? If Christians do not lash out and seek to murder and kill those who wound us, but adhere to that scripture you posted, do not for one minute think that we who trust in God's righteous judgements and His mercy have a tolerant and open mindedness concerning evil. We do not. We only understand that nobody can do wrath like God can. And He wants us to save that for Him. Probably cuz we'd mess it up.
Dear SH, pllease remember, once you jettison the truth, nothing is left but the lie. Merry Christmas!

Well, Levi, you beat me to it and since you said it much better than I could, I'll save it for another day.

Levi

#1 Did I say he didn't hate them, I thought after the holocaust that was a given. Fear breeds hate as we've seen from the comments on this board, they go hand in hand more often than not. Sadly rather than admit in the possibility that there could be one Muslim on this planet that's good you prefer to bash all; that's fear. And it's so deep that you can't even take my word for it that's based on experience; stop focusing on the bad & look for the good. As for the "evil" talk, look inward that's the only way we can all fix the world by fixing ourselves...change your perspective people are not as bad as you think.

@Chefaz, btw your experience being open as an agnostic was yours and it is not the norm as more are private about it than not. Honestly I doubt that you are being truthful.

and finally @ rickybobby, just saw your comment. If you haven't seen any "atheist charities" it's because they are not organized into group's like religions & they don't advertise behind that name to raise money. There are in fact hundreds that they give to and here's a list so you can help.

What bothers me here is the generalizations & the verbal attacks from those who don't agree. Wouldn't it be more adult to say something more along the lines of "hey I disagree" or "that's not been my experience"...it took what could have been a thoughtful conversation down the wrong path for no good reason, something for you all to think about in the future. My work is done here.

SH, I think you're putting something on me that belongs to someone else, but that's okay, I'll respond. I personally believe that there are a great many good-hearted Muslims in this world, and like the Jew, and the Christian, they are waiting for the coming of the Anointed One, the Messiah. I can only guess as to what will happen when this world sees Jesus returning in bodily form, in the clouds. Mass conversions to Christianity, people hiding from fear... raised in a culture with no access to the teachings of Christ, many Muslims only know what they are taught. If you like, check out Isaiah 19 in the Old Testament, the Oracle Concerning Egypt. It's a fascinating read!

And it's so deep that you can't even take my word for it that's based on experience;

SH, perhaps you've typed it before, but can you expound on this? Or reply with a comment number? I love honesty, even above doctrine and dogma, and if this is you being honest, then I would LOVE to hear all about it. We are indeed all in this together, SH!

And as for Chefaz, I know her very well, and I assure you, SH, what she tells you is the truth. If you doubt her testimony about her period of agnosticism, ask her to explain further. She is not agnostic any longer, but Christian, and we believe that by being transparent we are more effective communicators of what God has done for us. And the point is, if He can do it for us, He can surely do it for you!

You beat me to it again, Levi.

Well, you're busy. I'm not right now :-)

Well said & wishing you a brighter year ahead.

Welcome home.

and thank bush the moron bush for removing saddam who was keeping everyone from killing each other.... christians kurds shiities sunnis.

grats to bush the moron. bush sr knew better but bush jr is to stupid to know anything.

I agree ..Bush created and left us a mess.....I consider all the war casualties in Iraq as a part of the 9/11 casualties..which means that Bush doubled Bin Laden's effect...I've made some really dumb mistakes, but i hope I never do anything that will needlessly cause the death of others on any level ; but to double the casualties of 9/11 and spread so much misery in the world long after you have left the White House, is unspeakable!

bspurloc, Jmarks-2815448,

That was your buddy President Clinton and the rest of US Congress jumping up and down like the Gorillas of Planet of the Apes, 1998, Declaring War with Iraq, to "Overthrow the Iraqis President and Iraqis Government to Liberate the Iraqis People", later known as Operation Iraqis Freedom.

whitetourqoise,

It has long been my personal opinion (Not my US Military Officer Opinion) that ever since the 1980s US Military Training Teams from Germany to Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, that the US Politicians (that did not listen to a darn thing we told them) FUBAR Iraq with their lack of understanding of the situation. The same applies to here, with the US Military Training Teams from Germany (as an asset to the Agency) to Pakistan to train the 1980s Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen to defeat the USSR 40th Army Occupation (NOT the 1990s Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban).

Guess both of us wasted a lot of our lives for nothing. Fortunely you did not waste a few decades like me. If you know Arabic or Farsi we can use your help here (Afghanistan).

@ bspruloc...you're right. It wasn't everyone killing each other under Sadaam Hussein. When Sadaam Hussein was in power it was only Sadaam Hussein and his cronies who were doing all the killing.

as with the christians. the crusades were where u invaded other lands slapped them with your version of the bible and hugged them eh.....

grats denying history...... christianity is the bloodiest religion ever to exist thus far.

Nobody here fears Islam..we fear people like you who are itching for more blood as Iraqi Freedom has shown us....add the Tsunami to it also , according to the bible they go together ... :)

christianity is the bloodiest religion ever to exist thus far.

An emotional, untrue rant.

And yet the US and Europe continues to call it a religion and allow it to be practiced. Reminds me of England before WW2 trying to appease Hitler. It sure didn't work for them and it won't work now. Germany has called Scientology a cult but allows Islam?

as with christianity..... accept our almighty god or we will kill u and take all your gold maze etc..... poor incas and mayans....

oh but its all OK now.... south america is like 100% christian now.. how did that happen???? oh yeah accept or die.

Bob ... you're not very smart ...you cannot destroy a religion with weapons of war..Those with guns only demonstrate their ignorance...

Jmarks-2815448 - Bob ... you're not very smart ...you cannot destroy a religion with weapons of war..Those with guns only demonstrate their ignorance...

The Islamic Believers are doing a pretty good job of destroying other Religions with weapons of war.

So are you saying that the Army of Islam, International Al Quada Franchise, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, Muslim Brotherhood, etc. are demonstrating their ignorance as they conduct the Holy Koran (Quran) 109 Verses of 114 Verses War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (Everyone else. Yes, that includes you Atheists. And lesser Islamic Believers "Moderates", "Liberals", "Peaceful", etc.).

You better hope that they do not find out or the Worldwide Islamic Law Enforcement will come looking for you just like they are looking for the Seattle woman in hiding, an opportunity to eliminate the Pastor at Florida for his threatening to burn the Holy Koran (Quran), goal of eliminating Salmon Rushdie, recent goal of eliminating the Lawyer that defended the Adulteress at Iran that fled to Norway, eliminating the Danish Cartoonist, etc.. I have a list of about top 100 that the Worldwide Islamic Law Enforcement is backlogged on.

I don't know about all that, but our government's---"We the People"---track record of late in defending our dominant culture and institutions has been spotty at best.

Paul....the whole world hates Christianity...for you to say that demonstrates that your are close-minded...Christianity has never flourished in any nation more than in the USA...What most people in this country are intolerant of today is the blatant hypocrisy of so many who say they love Jesus but do the opposite with their lives.... Don't you get tired of pretending to be a Christian? Read Matthew 5 real slow...see what Jesus said about being persecuted and consider the comforts Jesus has outlined for those who are persecuted.. :)

Jmarks-2815448,

Past history of Christianity, not the current Modern Islam Actions.

Eric, you are so right. If this were reversed and it were Muslims being masscred by Christians, Muslims all over the planet would be screaming for vengeance. Okay, so Christians, what are you gonna do??

[If] Muslims being masscred by Christians, Muslims all over the planet would be screaming for vengeance.

Because so many people keep calling the US a "Christian Nation" (rather than a nation with a lot of Christians in it) the thousands of innocent Muslims that are collateral damage in the wars being fought over there ARE considered to be Muslims massacred by Christians.

Christians are to pray for those who persecute them...what it is, is that many Christians do not pray for Muslims, like they are supposed to but hate them back for hating them..Muslims are designed to expose the blatant hypocrisy of the sad state of Christianity in America..We have a decadent society which does not pray like we are expected to...I am guilty of this ,we all are.... i didn't know Jesus until I was twenty-four...it took me a long time to find out what to do, and how to do it...

Jmarks: I will pray for those who persecute me. If their persecution takes on a more deadly and sinister form, if their persecution entails that I must follow their belief system or die or exist in a form of slavery worse than slavery then I will do my utmost best to kill them before they get the chance to do me or mine harm. Then I will pray for my soul and theirs and ask forgiveness.

That is exactly the right approach, mygirl1. Kudos to you.

Please source this claim. There was one that was reported. In it's history Egypt has had far less church burnings then we have had here in the US in our much shorter history. You are spreading misinformation & hate by your plural use of the word churches.

SH....unfortunately in most Muslim dominated countries, Christians are violently harrassed, it's in the news just about everyday and history demonstrates this too.

The Liberal media in this country is still convinced ( along with most liberal citizens) that we can "play nice" and the Muslims will leave us alone. How mistaken they are.

It's only a matter of time before non-Muslims in this country start to act violently against Muslims, due to the way or the fear of, how Muslims treat us.

I hate to be the one to break the bad news to you, but if you will Google "Saudi ownership of Fox News parent company NEWS CORP." your eyes may bulge right out of your head and your anger may cause you do do an injury to the first muslim that you encounter.....

TheReligionofPeace.com
Guide to Understanding Islam

What does the
Religion of Peace
Teach About...

Violence

Question:

Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?

Summary Answer:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, most of the verses of violence in the Quran are open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. This proclivity toward violence - and Muhammad's own martial legacy - has left a trail of blood and tears across world history.

The Quran:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah" From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah." According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by explaining that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story, which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source, tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you," This very important verse asserts that the Religion of Peace is not to grant peace to the broader society until Islamic rule has been established.

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings.

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim.

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam.

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 990 - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern custom, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve.

Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid.

Additional Notes:

Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Few verses in the Quran can be construed to fit the contemporary virtues of religious tolerance and universal brotherhood. Those that do are earlier "Meccan" verses that are obviously abrogated by later ones. Small wonder that Muslim apologists spend a lot of time speaking of the "risks" of trying to interpret the Quran without their "assistance."

Far from being mere history or theological construct, the violent verses of the Quran have played a key role in actual massacre and genocide. This includes the brutal slaughter of tens of millions of Hindus for five centuries beginning around 1000 AD with Mahmud of Ghazni's bloody conquest, including the massacre of those who defending their temples from destruction. Buddhism was very nearly wiped off the Indian subcontinent. Judaism and Christianity met the same fate (albeit more slowly) in areas conquered by Muslim armies, including the Middle East, North Africa and parts of Europe, including today's Turkey. Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion of a proud Persian people is despised by Muslims and barely survives in modern Iran.

So ingrained is violence in the religion that Islam has never really stopped being at war, either with other religions or with itself.

Muhammad was a military leader, laying siege to towns, massacring the men, raping their women, enslaving their children, and taking what was once the property of others for his own. On several occasions he rejected offers of surrender from the besieged inhabitants and killed those whom he could take prisoner. He inspired his followers to battle even when they did not feel it was right to fight, promising them slaves and booty if they did and threatening them with Hell if they did not. Muhammad allowed his men to rape traumatized women captured in battle.

It is important to emphasize that Muslim armies waged aggressive campaigns, and it was the companions of Muhammad who made the most dramatic military gains in the decades following his death. The principle set in motion early on was that the civilian population of a town was to be destroyed (ie. men executed, women and children taken as slaves) if they defended themselves. Although modern Muslim apologists often claim that Islam only attacked in self-defense, this is not only an oxymoron, but it is flatly contradicted by the accounts of Muslim historians and others going back to the time of Muhammad.

Consider the example of the Qurayza Jews, who were completely wiped out only five years after Muhammad arrived in Medina. Their leader opted to stay neutral when their town was besieged by a Meccan army, sent to take revenge for Muhammad's deadly caravan raids. The tribe killed no one from either side and even surrendered peacefully to Muhammad after the Meccans had been turned back. Yet the prophet of Islam had every male member of the Qurayza beheaded, and every woman and child enslaved, even raping one of the captives himself (what Muslim apologists call same day "marriage").

Muhammad's failure to leave a clear line of succession resulted in perpetual internal war following his death. Those who knew him best first fought to keep remote tribes from leaving Islam and reverting to their preferred religion (the Ridda or 'Apostasy wars'). Then within the closer community, early Meccan converts battled later ones. Hostility developed between those immigrants who had traveled with Muhammad to Mecca and the Ansar at Medina who had helped them settle in. Finally there was a violent struggle within Muhammad's own family between his favorite wife and favorite daughter - a jagged schism that has left Shias and Sunnis at each others' throats to this day.

The strangest and most untrue thing that can be said about Islam is that it is a Religion of Peace. If every standard by which the West is judged and condemned (slavery, imperialism, intolerance, women's rights, sexuality, warfare...) were applied equally to Islam, the verdict would be absolutely devastating. Islam never gives up what it conquers, be it religion, culture, language or life. Neither does it make apologies or any real effort at moral progress. It is the least open to dialogue and the most self-absorbed. It is convinced of its own perfection, yet brutally shuns self-examination and represses criticism.

This is what makes the verses of violence so dangerous. They are given the weight of divine command. While Muslim terrorists take them as literally as anything else in the Quran, and understand that Islam is incomplete without Jihad, moderates offer little to contradict them - outside of opinion. Indeed, what do they have? Speaking of peace and love may win over the ignorant, but when every twelfth verse of Islam's holiest book either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation, it's little wonder that sympathy for terrorism runs as deeply as it does in the broader community - even if most Muslims personally prefer not to interpret their religion in this way.

In fact, many Muslims are simply unaware of the Quran's near absence of verses that preach universal non-violence. This is because their understanding of Islam comes from what they are taught by others. In the West, it is typical for Muslims to come to believe that their religion must be like Christianity - preaching the New Testament virtues of peace, love, and tolerance - because Muslims are taught that Islam is supposed to be superior in every way. They are somewhat surprised and embarrassed to learn that the evidence of the Quran and the bloody history of Islam are very much in contradiction to this.

Others simply accept the violence. In 1991, a Palestinian couple in America was convicted of stabbing their daughter to death for being too Westernized. A family friend came to their defense, excoriating the jury for not understanding the "culture", claiming that the father was merely following "the religion" and saying that the couple had to "discipline their daughter or lose respect." (source).

For their part, Western liberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking on the altar of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that this it is both different and dangerous.

There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally... and too many others who couldn't care less about the violence done in the name of Islam.

TheReligionofPeace.com Home Page

© 2006-2010 TheReligionofPeace.com. All rights reserved.

Steve read up thread to my comment #1.2; I base my observations on my experience with people not the "liberal media" or the moronic right wing media; perhaps you should too.

art WOW that is what {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES} believe?

@ steve W

sorry buddy but when you retaliate against Muslims for their hatred you, you enter into ..an eye for an eye...Thats' for governments not for people...It is totally anti-Christ..The Muslims beat you when you bow to their level..That's what they are for..to get the level of hatred to rise up in your heart; so that you will smite them...That's anti-Christ! :)

SH-2000 re:post 11.1 All you have to do is google persecution of Christians in Egypt or middle east or Jihad watch and you will get a whole slew of evidence. It is there if you really want to verify it.

amerikano - art WOW that is what {BRAINWASHED CRAZIES} believe?

It is worse than that, it is not only what they believe it is also what determines their actions everyday.

art-2065319 left out many of the really graphic Suras (Verses) of the Holy Koran (Quran) and the Islamic Laws as used by Modern Islam.

Not as a defense, but, say if everyday since you were born you were told that your enemies are the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, by your parents, schools, neighbors, friends, relatives, the local and national governments, news media, that you must support the Islamic Military (Jihadists, Terrorists) and Islamic Law Enforcement (Death Squads, Mandatory Islamic Tithe Collectors), etc. and you are forbidden by the Death Penalty from saying otherwise.

That is what Modern Islam is, as ALL, All Politics, All Religion, All Laws, All Ways of Life, All Culture, etc. that supersede the politics, religions, laws, ways of life, cultures, etc. of all Nations worldwide.

It is kind of funny after all these years of consecutive tours living with them at various Middle Eastern Nations and Asian Islamic Nations, you kind of get used to the "BRAINWASHED CRAZIES" actually being the Norm as the Majority, and not the minority (you can figure this out by going around and talking with them and living with them for a few years).

Look at Indonesia for some truly horrific treatment of christians. As to the MSM: it doesn't fit into their 'peaceful Islam' progressive agenda rhetoric to recount stories of Muslims murdering Christians

@ el-1372142

Why then don't you provide it to back your argument? Debate 101.

BTW, I know enough Egyptians I don't need to.

It is encumbent therefore for Christians to pray without ceasing for mus lims everywhere..to be converted to Christ by the gospel.. :)

You don't believe in self-defense?

What does Jesus say to do?..GET OUT OF OUT WAY WHEN WE FIXING TO DO SOME SHOPPING???? LOL :)

Green9: Don't know about the kill part but, since Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ, as in Jesus Christ, to stop a group of people from clebrating the birth of their saviour would be a serious affront and an invasion of their right to worship. Christians in the 21st century don't generally go about killing folks who don't like them unlike muslims who want to kill a cartoonist for depicting their holy prophet, a novelist for saying unkind things about ditto or a lawyer defending a woman accused of adultery or anyone else who offends their religion.

Guess you figure its ok to bash Christians since the odds are they won't kill you for doing so. Wonder how brave you'd be about bashing Islam?

He'd be the same kind of coward that the terrorists are, willing to kill women with box cutters but too scared to stand up to a Western man face-to-face.

Pure ignorance Allen. Bush's war crime? Show me where please. As for WMD's, while actual completed weapons have not been found, the compounds, equipment & technology has been. Even your buddy in Wiki leaks has this on his site.

You fall into the same ignorant stream as those who think Obama is a Muslim.

allen77, you would have pleaded to have Hitler pardoned for fear of his future followers. Sometime you have to make a stand against pure evil. I respect George Bush for having the guts to do that. Our current President could take some lessons in intestinal fortitude from "W" in that regard. Actually, it looks like he has done just that recently.

Iraq isn't one country, it's three: Kurd vs Sunni vs Shia. Yes, Saddam was a brutal dictator, but that's exactly what was needed to hold the thing together.

You may think a paper clip is ugly, but if you don't have a stapler or some other plan when you remove the clip, who's to blame when everything turns to chaos?

Actually there was a Christian minister who did burn parts of the Koran but somehow it did not make the national news. Randall Terry is said to have torn the pages of a Koran that contained passages urging violence against non - Muslims, read the passages, and then burned that page only. It took a long time. There are lot of them.

Violence against Christians in Muslim countries is nothing new. To blame that crazy preacher in Fla. is outright ignorant. However I will agree the MSM shouldn't have given this guy 1 second of airtime.

For as long as I can remember, Muslim extremists have always harrassed, threatened, assaulted and even murdered Christian familes in Muslim dominant countries. Then to threaten violence against Christians if the nut-job in Fla. burns Korans? Really? So what's changed? NOTHING!

Muslims are like children, they need to have it their way, all the time and people like you, the MSM and the other cowards in our great country continually give them a stage to parade on by allowing their continued violence againt anyone who is non-Muslim.

@mark wayne get up to date son.. more than 600 thousand Christians have left Iraq since the fall of Saddam..they're on a shopping spree right now... :)

So if I'am black I should change the color of my skin

Just temporarily, Fifthwheel, until the danger has passed. Might have to give up the waffles and fried chicken for breakfast, too. Dead giveaway.

John, do you attend that church in Fla. where they were going to burn the Koran? From the ignorance that you just displayed, I would say so.

Islam and Christianity both in the "Book" says they are religions of love and tolerance, but at some time in history BOTH brought violence on the other in the name of God. It's all about who is leading the sheeple at the time and if the blind subjects take the time to understand what their religion preaches.

No talking sense to a person who believes there is a boogie man with a pitch fork wearing red spandex who lives in a fire pit.

My husband is Muslim & I'm still around, explain that genius.

Anomaly.

He must be a weak muslim !!!!!!!!!!

your husband may not be a true muslim. but don't worry, there is a simple test to find out for sure.

if your lip is busted and your eyes black, if there is a towel on your head and you are not allowed outside. if you are treated like property instead of a human, (kind of like the toaster or the television) he is most likely a real muslim.

the fact that you are allowed to use the computer and have your own opinions would imply he is not a real muslim.

anyway, good luck and may allah squat on your head. (or something)

also, all muslims arrange their closets the same way.

pants, shirts, bomb vests, then hats and shoes. socks and under wear will be in the gun drawer next to the airplane schematics.

20.2. 20.3. 20.4

ALL REPORTED AS INFLAMMATORY.

Not only are you closed minded & hateful you are stupid too.

you forgot 20.5

i have read your posts, and i can complain too...

last i heard the terrorists ARE muslim, care to deny that one?

i stand by my remarks, if he were a true muslim his wife would be no better than the mop in the corner, personal property and no more. he is legally allowed to beat/rape/etc. you any time he wants and you have no say because you are a woman. this is a fact.

under muslim law you would not be on this forum, you would not be allowed to speak to me (or anyone else) at all.

you are a woman, i am a man, therefore i am above you (according to the koran) apparently, he follows a watered down version of it. a true muslim would not tolerate a outspoken, testosterone filled version of a woman who does not know her place. you would have been stoned to death long ago.

under muslim law it is ok for a muslim man to marry a non-muslim woman (if she converts) because the man is in charge and will raise the children to be muslim.

it is NOT ok for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man because he will raise the children to his faith (non-muslim)

these are not my laws, they are your husbands laws. they are dictated by his faith, not mine. as for your reply (20.6) he is the hate filled one, and you are the stupid one.

i await your response... don't cry, reply. state facts, not theories. i will hear you out and reply without complaining to newsvine and trying to shut you up because i don't like what you had to say.

the fact that you did complain to newsvine says a lot. it says you want your opinion out there. but no one else should be allowed to speak.

i assure you, you can not shut me up. i am not your husband's property.

i await your response... don't cry, reply. state facts, not theories. i will hear you out and reply without complaining to newsvine and trying to shut you up because i don't like what you had to say.

I gave you my opinion based on my experience being married to a good man & father for 14 years who happens to be Muslim & you spit on it with your response. For the record my husband knows I am an agnostic, a proud liberal & an out spoken New Yorker with Catholic & Jewish parents & has NEVER asked me to cover my head, he loves me for who I am & is a good man because his parents were good people & raised their children to walk the walk on a straight & narrow good path. So,here's my response to you Leo, it's attached to my hand and is the third finger in and I'm am sure you can see it from there.

Before you go complaining or "crying" to NV, THINK if you can for a moment if a stranger likened your wife or partner to a terrorist or maybe better yet a whore, because then maybe you can understand how hurtful your words are.

Don't bother responding I've blocked you & that's me shutting you up not my husband.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18911_5-ridiculous-things-you-probably-believe-about-islam.html

Religious intolerance in is no more a facet of Islam that Racial intolerance is a tenet of Christianity.

If one were to believe that the centuries of enslavement, wars, colonization and atrocities justified by the Vatican and European Protestant leadership was anymore than white supremacy masquerading as Teachings of Christ they would be regarded as ignorant and bigoted, just as those are who regard these acts as descriptive of the whole of Islam.

Don't bother responding I've blocked you & that's me shutting you up not my husband.

OH NOOOOO.... she blocked me..... i'm melting....

looks like you sure shut me up.... i will respond if i choose to and you cant stop me.

idiot.

you should be allowed to speak but everyone else should "shut up" sounds very.... muslim to me. you sure you didn't convert?

Does this apply to the Jews and Christians also or do you just mean the Muslims?

Did you know that inbreeding was very popular and common in Europe for centuries?

99problems and a B!tch ain't one I guess.

But seriously the Iraqi people are in turmoil due to the fact that the US destabilized the country, destroyed the infrastructure and in effect left a power vacuum with their puppet in leadership. There was much bad blood and animosity that existed between the multiple factions there that are now coming to a head. To characterize this as Muslim Vs. Christian is to trivialize this.

Sort of like Southern fundamentalist Christians?

Did you live in Iraq under Saddam? He killed thousands of his people, imprisoned even more, used a weapon of mass destruction ( poison gas) on the Kurds, invaded Kuwait, etc, etc, etc....

MarkWayne, did you live in Iraq under Hussein or under anyone for that matter?

He couldn't have been that bad because the US was in support of him for so long. He gassed Kurds, etc. but he gassed Iranians also, which is why we supported him.

I am hard-pressed to believe that the strategists behind this war initiative did not know the effects of creating this power vacuum we they embarked upon this. They intended for this to happen.